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<v Speaker 1>What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, we're going to pick up where we left

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<v Speaker 1>off with Tyler Robinson and the prelim hearing Day number one,

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<v Speaker 1>Chad Grunader. Officer Bagley, I'm now going to refer to

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<v Speaker 1>you to your attention to State's exhibit number three that's

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<v Speaker 1>going to come up on your monitor as well. Let

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<v Speaker 1>me know when you see that answer, I see it.

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<v Speaker 1>Question okay, and do you recognize that answer? I do? Question?

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<v Speaker 1>And what is that? Answer? This is a drone picture

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<v Speaker 1>of the campus more of the courtyard looking eastward. Question Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I've asked you about several buildings on the campus. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to ask you about those same buildings whether they're

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<v Speaker 1>depicted in this exhibit. Okay, do you see where the

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<v Speaker 1>Hall of Flags is located? Answer? Yes, I do. It's

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<v Speaker 1>down towards the bottom. It's a red brick pathway. It

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<v Speaker 1>would be the Hall of Flags. Question Okay, what about

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<v Speaker 1>the Fugal Building? Answer? The Fugal Building is going to

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<v Speaker 1>be to the right of the picture. It's going to

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<v Speaker 1>be a white roof building off to the right of

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<v Speaker 1>the south courtyard. Question and the Woodbury Business Building, where's

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<v Speaker 1>that at answer Woodbury is going to be another red

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<v Speaker 1>path that's going to be just to the east of

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<v Speaker 1>the Fugal building. It's got a gray roof and some

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<v Speaker 1>red path on it. Question the Sowrenson Center. Answer, the

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<v Speaker 1>Swordenson Center is going to be to the left of

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<v Speaker 1>the picture. It's going to have a white roof different levels,

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<v Speaker 1>and that would be the Swordensen Center. Question Okay, the

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<v Speaker 1>low Ci Center. Where's that located in relationship to the

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<v Speaker 1>Sorenson Center that you've described. Answer of the Sowrenson Center,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to be just directly east of the Swordenson Center.

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<v Speaker 1>Towards the top of the picture, you can see the

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<v Speaker 1>two different colors of gray, the gravel that's on the roof.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and can you see the courtyard in this photograph?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes, you can. Question Okay, is this picture of

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<v Speaker 1>fairror and accurate depiction of this area of Utah Valley

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<v Speaker 1>University's campus on September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Question State offers exhibit three. Your honor. Kathy Nester jumps

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<v Speaker 1>in your honor, we renew are standing objection. We also

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<v Speaker 1>object again that this individual can identify when the picture

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<v Speaker 1>was made or how it was made or by whom,

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graph, mister Grunader, same response, Judge, and just for

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<v Speaker 1>the record, I would also appoint the court the State

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<v Speaker 1>versus Purcell, which is a Supreme Court case here in

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<v Speaker 1>the state of Utah, nineteen eighty five, which essentially stands

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<v Speaker 1>for the proposition that if a competent witness with personal

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge of the facts represented in a photograph can testify

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<v Speaker 1>that the photograph accurately represents those facts, the exhibits admissible.

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<v Speaker 1>He also spoke about the date being September tenth, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five. The showing that's required here. It's essentially a

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<v Speaker 1>prime facy showing. We're not required to show proof beyond

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<v Speaker 1>a reasonable doubt, for example, that is what was accurate

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<v Speaker 1>the day, or even a preponderance of the evidence. But

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<v Speaker 1>will submit it on that, Judge. Judge Graph, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just taking a brief glance at the case you cited, Grunander.

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<v Speaker 1>I can give you the citation your honor answer by

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<v Speaker 1>the judge. If you have that, I'd appreciate it. Grunander.

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<v Speaker 1>It's seven eleven Pacific second to forty three, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking at page number two forty five. Judge Graph all right.

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<v Speaker 1>The Court finds that the witness is familiar with the scene.

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<v Speaker 1>He testified that it's a fair and accurate representation of

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<v Speaker 1>what State's Exhibit three reports to be. And the Court

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<v Speaker 1>finds that necessary foundation has been laid and overrules the objection.

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<v Speaker 1>State Exhibit three is admitted and may be published. Grunander,

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<v Speaker 1>State would move to publish State Exhibit three. Judge graph,

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<v Speaker 1>all right, Grunander, May I approach the witness, your honor,

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<v Speaker 1>the judge You may, Grunander, Officer, if you'd come down

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<v Speaker 1>into the well of the court, I'm going to ask

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<v Speaker 1>you a few questions about this Exhibit three as well. Witness, okay. Question,

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<v Speaker 1>can you point out where the Hall of Flags is

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<v Speaker 1>located and describe that for the record? Answer? The Hall

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<v Speaker 1>of Flags is going to be down here on the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom of the picture, going to have a red brick

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<v Speaker 1>pathway with some flowers along the top of it. Question

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned that you were securing an area of that walkway.

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes. Question where were you stationed? Answer? I was

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<v Speaker 1>down here by the end of the flower pots, which

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<v Speaker 1>is down here on the south side, towards the Fugal

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<v Speaker 1>building on the far right of the picture. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>in relationship to where you were stationed. Where's the Fugal

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<v Speaker 1>building then? Answer? The Fugal Building is just to the

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<v Speaker 1>right of me, so it would be on the south

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<v Speaker 1>end of me. Question okay, and so it's on the

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<v Speaker 1>right side of the photograph there, answer, far right side

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<v Speaker 1>of the photograph. Yes. Question what about the business building? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>The business building is just going to be in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of the picture on the far right. It's going

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<v Speaker 1>to have some red brick pathways. It's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>multi level, and that would be the Woodbury building. Question okay.

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<v Speaker 1>The Sorensen Center, where is that located on the photograph? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>The Swordensen Center is going to be the middle to

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<v Speaker 1>the far left of the picture. It's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>the white roof on top of it. Multi level. Question okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And the low Ci Center, where is that located? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>The low Ci Center is going to be towards the

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<v Speaker 1>top of the picture, kind of off centered a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's going to have the four or five floors

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<v Speaker 1>that are sitting right there. Question okay, can you describe

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<v Speaker 1>those stories what we're looking at? Where do you find one, two, three, four,

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<v Speaker 1>and possibly five? Question or answer? Excuse me? This is

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<v Speaker 1>ground level where the courtyard is. As you go over

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<v Speaker 1>towards the low C building inside, there's an elevator. That

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<v Speaker 1>would be the ground one level. One level two would

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<v Speaker 1>be the second one where these red ATVs are sitting

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<v Speaker 1>on the grass right there in the middle of the picture.

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<v Speaker 1>If you go up from that, that would be the

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<v Speaker 1>third level. And the fourth level, which is the actual

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<v Speaker 1>top level of the building, is a very top one

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<v Speaker 1>with the windows that you can see. Question Okay, is

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<v Speaker 1>there an atrium on the top of that? Answer there's

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<v Speaker 1>an atrium. It's actually it's got a little sphere on

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<v Speaker 1>top of it. It looks like a little square right

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<v Speaker 1>on top of the Loci building. That would be the atrium.

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<v Speaker 1>Question okay, Now you mentioned two shades of gray on

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<v Speaker 1>the rooftop of the Loci building. Answer yes, question can

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<v Speaker 1>you see it on this exhibit? Answer? I can where

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<v Speaker 1>the atrium is a lighter gray gravel and on the

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<v Speaker 1>west side because I'm looking east. On the west side,

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<v Speaker 1>there's two ventilations for the Loci building, two events on

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<v Speaker 1>top of that, it's in the darker gray gravel. Question

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned you're familiar with the rooftop of the Losi

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<v Speaker 1>Center correct answer yes. Question when someone is standing on

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<v Speaker 1>the Losi Center, can they see down into the courtyard?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes they can. Question and where's the courtyard located

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<v Speaker 1>from that rooftop? Question that's going to be in the

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<v Speaker 1>center of the picture with the grass and the atrium

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<v Speaker 1>style steps. Question would that be west of the low

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<v Speaker 1>Ci Center then? Answer yes, it would be directly west

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<v Speaker 1>of the Losi Center. Question Okay, Now, in a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of other exhibits, we saw a tent that was down

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<v Speaker 1>set up in the courtyard. Can you see that tent

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<v Speaker 1>set up in the courtyard in this photograph? Answer you cannot.

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<v Speaker 1>In this picture you can. It would be where I

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<v Speaker 1>explained where the Hall of Flags is. It's directly underneath

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<v Speaker 1>the Hall of Flags, just on the grass right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Question okay, is there a clear line of sight between

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<v Speaker 1>the tent and the top of the low Ci Center

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<v Speaker 1>the rooftop? Answer yes, there is. Question okay, is some

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<v Speaker 1>of it obstructed? Answer? Yes? Question obstructed by what? Answer

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<v Speaker 1>the Sorenson building that's right here, this white roof, This

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<v Speaker 1>kind of obstructs a little bit of the view of

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<v Speaker 1>the courtyard. Question where would you have to be standing

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<v Speaker 1>or perhaps lying down on the low CI center to

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<v Speaker 1>see it into the courtyard where the tent was. Answer

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<v Speaker 1>on the far side of the Loci building. You could

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<v Speaker 1>have a line of sight towards the courtyard. Question that's

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<v Speaker 1>the top roof. Answer the top roof. Yes, question with

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<v Speaker 1>a darker shade of gray answer yes. Question okay, thank you, officer.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to refer the witness to State's exhibit number

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<v Speaker 1>thirty five, and officer bag when you see that, go

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<v Speaker 1>ahead and let me know. Do you recognize what that is? Officer? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have it yet. Question we don't have this

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<v Speaker 1>in electronic form. Speaker for we do, Grunander, we do? Okay, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll refer you to the exhibit that's to your left

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<v Speaker 1>and behind you. Do you see that? Answer? I do.

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<v Speaker 1>Question it's marked as States Exhibit thirty five with a

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<v Speaker 1>yellow sticker. Is that correct? Answer? Yes, I can see

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<v Speaker 1>that on top left of the photo. Question. Well, for

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<v Speaker 1>the record, if we can publish that on the witnesses screen.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graff, thank you, mister Grunander. I was just going

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<v Speaker 1>to mention that we shouldn't display it until it's been

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<v Speaker 1>admitted in Grunander, do you see State's Exhibit thirty five

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<v Speaker 1>on your monitor. Answer, yes, I do. Question okay, do

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<v Speaker 1>you recognize that? Answer? Yes, I do. Question and what

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<v Speaker 1>is it? Answer? This is an aerial view of the

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<v Speaker 1>campus and the northeast area just north of the campus

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhoods of the Utah Valley University in OREUM. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and how can you personally tell that this is a

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<v Speaker 1>photograph to the campus and the neighborhood to the northeast

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<v Speaker 1>of campus. Question? I can tell because I recognize all

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<v Speaker 1>the buildings, the roads that are around it, the streets,

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<v Speaker 1>the roundabouts, and the neighborhood to the north or towards

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<v Speaker 1>the top of the picture. Also question, now, I've asked

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<v Speaker 1>you about several buildings and landmarks on campus. Are you

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<v Speaker 1>able to see the courtyard on this exhibit? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you are. Question and just for the record, can you

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<v Speaker 1>describe where that's located on the exhibit? Answer? Right in

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<v Speaker 1>the center, towards the bottom, there's a white triangle roof

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<v Speaker 1>that's white. That would be the Sorenson Building. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>patch of grass that's just directly towards the bottom of

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<v Speaker 1>that on the picture. It's centered, but more towards the

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<v Speaker 1>bottom right in the middle. Question on this exhibit, are

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<v Speaker 1>you able to see the Fugal building? Answer? Yes, i am.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and in relationship to the courtyard, where's that located? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>That's going to be the south of the courtyard with

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<v Speaker 1>the white roof. About the Woodbury Business Building? Answer? Woodbury

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<v Speaker 1>Business Building is going to be to the east and

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to have red brick path top. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and can you see the flags on this answer? Yes

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<v Speaker 1>you can. Question and where is that located to the courtyard? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>It's strictly west of the courtyard. Question and the low

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<v Speaker 1>Ci Center. Can you see the low Ci Center? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>You can see the low Ci Center. Question and where's

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<v Speaker 1>that at answer It's going to be northeast of the

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<v Speaker 1>courtyard with the two patches of gray that's almost in

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<v Speaker 1>the center of the picture, just to the slight right

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<v Speaker 1>of the center. Question Okay, I've asked previously about the

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<v Speaker 1>LBS Institute building. Can you see that on this exhibit? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you can. Question and where's that located in relationship to

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<v Speaker 1>the low Ci Center? Answer it's directly north of the

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<v Speaker 1>low Ci Center. It's got a white roof, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>almost directly in the center of the photo. Question Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and we've talked about a parking structure that's nearby the

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<v Speaker 1>institute building. Do you see that? Answer? Yes, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>to the west or left side of the picture of

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<v Speaker 1>the institute building. Question, Okay, is this a fair and

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<v Speaker 1>accurate depiction of the Utah Valley University campus and the

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding neighborhood to the north and east on September tenth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five. Answer yes. Question the state offers Exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>thirty five. Kathy Nester, your honor, We renew our standing

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<v Speaker 1>objection and object on the grounds that there's no indication

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<v Speaker 1>on this photograph of when it was taken in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of relation to the actual incident at issue here. Judge Grafs,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, Miss Nestor. Mister Grunander. Grunander Sam response, Judge,

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<v Speaker 1>but I would just add one more case for the

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<v Speaker 1>court's benefit. This is State versus Wager or Wager Wager.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a Utah Court of Appeals case from twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>The citation is three seventy two Pacific third ninety one.

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<v Speaker 1>And the significance of this case, Your honor at issue.

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<v Speaker 1>There was a photograph of the defendant there who was

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<v Speaker 1>smoking methamphetamine allegedly in this bathroom. The witness that was

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<v Speaker 1>testifying that laying the foundation at trial was not present

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<v Speaker 1>when the photograph was taken, could not tell the date

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<v Speaker 1>on which it was taken, but he had been in

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<v Speaker 1>the bathroom before, was familiar with the defendant's bathroom and

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with the defendant. He testified to that personal knowledge,

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<v Speaker 1>and the court found that was sufficient foundation. So that case,

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<v Speaker 1>in addition to the other case, the personel case, and

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<v Speaker 1>my previous arguments, and I'll submitted to the court, Miss

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<v Speaker 1>nestor anything else you wish to add, Miss Nestor, no.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graff, all right, Given the testimony of the witness

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<v Speaker 1>who's testified, he's familiar with the location. He went in

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<v Speaker 1>detail describing the various neighborhoods in location. He mentioned the

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<v Speaker 1>roundabout and identified the buildings in State's Exhibit thirty five,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was noted that it was a fair and

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<v Speaker 1>accurate representation of this campus as of September tenth, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five. The Court is going to overrule the objection

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<v Speaker 1>and State's Exhibit thirty five is admitted into evidence and

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<v Speaker 1>may be published. All right, folks, we're going to wrap

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<v Speaker 1>up right here, and in the next next episode, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to pick up where we left off. All the

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<v Speaker 1>information that goes with this episode can be found in

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<v Speaker 1>the description box.