Speaker 1: The Sad News Today.
Speaker 2: Brian Wilson, songwriter and lead singer the Beach Boys, died
Speaker 2: at the age of eighty two. My first concert of
Speaker 2: my life Beach Boys, Paramount Theater, New York. I was
Speaker 2: I think eleven years old. Brian Wilson was not with
Speaker 2: the group. In fact, I think it was only two
Speaker 2: of the founding members, and in order to keep the
Speaker 2: audience attention, they marched out like twelve scantily clad women
Speaker 2: in bikinis.
Speaker 1: My father was covering my eyes the whole time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool. It is the Beach Boys, I guess technically,
Speaker 3: But like I have friends that are my age that like, say,
Speaker 3: they've hit seen the Grateful Dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, does it count if Jerry wasn't there, And does
Speaker 2: it count seeing the Beach Boys of Brian Wilson was
Speaker 2: not present.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that it does.
Speaker 3: Maybe a little more of my generation, but it's like
Speaker 3: sublime with the other guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not the same.
Speaker 2: I think Kevin Loves Uncle is in the band and
Speaker 2: he was there. I think it's Mike Love Anyway, nobody
Speaker 2: gives a rip. Tom Haberstrow Wednesday afternoon. All right, Tom,
Speaker 2: right off the top, first concert that you ever in
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 4: Jack Johnson, Ben Harper at Central Park.
Speaker 1: Very nice, very nice, very Northeast.
Speaker 2: Loved that, and they were I mean, what year was that,
Speaker 2: because that must have been when those two were just
Speaker 2: kind of at their peak.
Speaker 4: I want to say it was like two thousand and three,
Speaker 4: something like that. I remember taking the train into New
Speaker 4: York with my buddies and just it was. It was
Speaker 4: an incredible night. And I don't think any of us,
Speaker 4: even if we didn't partake in anything, I don't think
Speaker 4: you'd come home from a concert.
Speaker 1: Like that sober.
Speaker 4: It's just in the air everywhere, So that that was
Speaker 4: an experience I would say with a Beach Boys. I
Speaker 4: always come back to the Beach Boys as maybe the
Speaker 4: greatest American band ever rock and roll as a genre.
Speaker 4: If you were to point to what is the greatest
Speaker 4: rock and roll band in American history, I think people
Speaker 4: might throw out Pearl Jam or Aero Smith or something
Speaker 4: of that caliber or genre. But I think the Beach
Speaker 4: Boys might have a stake to that claim. And I
Speaker 4: don't know if you guys had any thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that you're wrong.
Speaker 2: I mean, my bias brain goes to DMB, but that's
Speaker 2: not a popular answer. I think grateful Dead the Doors,
Speaker 2: Tom Petty Eagles.
Speaker 1: You referenced Darrow Smith.
Speaker 2: If you want to go like hipster Howard Beck, you
Speaker 2: could talk r em.
Speaker 1: But it.
Speaker 2: Might be the Beach Boys. Tom, you might be right
Speaker 2: about that. I don't know that I have much a
Speaker 2: problem with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in terms of influence and the ingenuity of what
Speaker 4: they were doing, and I think it was kind of
Speaker 4: just I don't know innovation is the right word here,
Speaker 4: but the sound was unlike anything we'd heard. And so
Speaker 4: I think it's been a tough week in music. And
Speaker 4: I would say Brian Wilson passing away, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4: But the old debate about what is the greatest American
Speaker 4: rock and roll band or band, I think Beach Boys
Speaker 4: deserve a spot in that conversation.
Speaker 2: I think you're correct, and certainly on this day today,
Speaker 2: I will not push back. I know van Halen for
Speaker 2: some probably's in the conversation. I was never a big
Speaker 2: van Halen guy. But anyway, Tom, we can make our
Speaker 2: way over to a little basketball. We'll start with the finals.
Speaker 2: I do have a couple of jazz questions we'll save
Speaker 2: those for the end. You know, every game day in
Speaker 2: the finals and certainly leading up to the game as well,
Speaker 2: when you listen to the debate shows or listen to
Speaker 2: NBA pods, you know, people on the pacer side of
Speaker 2: things will say, this is.
Speaker 1: All about Halliburton.
Speaker 2: You know, there's seven and one when he scores twenty
Speaker 2: or more points in the playoffs, and during those games
Speaker 2: he just scores twenty or more, he also averages around
Speaker 2: ten as sis And I want to be clear, I'm
Speaker 2: not saying it's not about Halliburton. It's just not about
Speaker 2: him entirely based off of the defensive perimeter prowess of OKC.
Speaker 2: They shut down Jamal Murray, they shut down Anthony Edward,
Speaker 2: Words and Tom the players that toward the Knicks for
Speaker 2: the most part, have not been the same players over
Speaker 2: the first two games in the NBA Finals. So let's
Speaker 2: start with Indiana side and your opinion on Okay, is
Speaker 2: this all about Halliburton if he's aggressive early on, are
Speaker 2: they gonna win it? Or do these other players need
Speaker 2: to look the way they look against looked against the Knicks.
Speaker 4: Well, I think it starts with the OKC defenders. Alex Caruso,
Speaker 4: Case and Wallace. Lou Dort being the primary defender on
Speaker 4: Tyrese Halbert has absolutely bitten the head off the snake.
Speaker 4: You look at what Dort has done this season, last
Speaker 4: season against Tyrese Haliburt, he is Halle Kryptonite. Hallie can't
Speaker 4: break free. He can't shake free on lou Dort. On
Speaker 4: that final possession in Game one, when he got down
Speaker 4: the floor and Case and Wallace is guarding him, I said,
Speaker 4: it's going up and it's going in because where's lou Dort.
Speaker 4: The guy puts him in a straight jacket. Every time
Speaker 4: they go at each other, Tyree Taliburn passes the ball up.
Speaker 4: He does not like going at lou Dort. And in
Speaker 4: this series, in two games with Dort guarding him or
Speaker 4: Alex Carusa guarding him, seventy one possessions seventy one possessions
Speaker 4: of basketball with those two guys guarding him, Tyree Taliburton
Speaker 4: has scored two points. He's one for eight shooting. He
Speaker 4: has four assists of three turnovers. With Caruso and lou Dort,
Speaker 4: it is the biggest problem the Pacers have faced is
Speaker 4: this test against okc's unbelievably good defenders, they can't get
Speaker 4: Tyree Taliburton going. And in this series he has a
Speaker 4: nineteen point nine usage rate that is league average. That
Speaker 4: is like I look this up in usage right by
Speaker 4: the way, for the listeners, that is what percentage of
Speaker 4: your team's possessions are you using to try to score?
Speaker 4: And in this series, Shagilds ers Alexander that thirty six
Speaker 4: percent of Okay c'se possessions are going to Shay Giljos
Speaker 4: Alexander for him trying to score. Tyry Tyliburton is actually
Speaker 4: below average Naji Marshall. Naji Marshall for the Dallas Mavericks
Speaker 4: was at twenty percent this season. So what Lou Dort
Speaker 4: and Alex CRUs will have done in this series is
Speaker 4: they've turned Tyree Taliburton into a role player. And that
Speaker 4: is the biggest problem here is that when you see
Speaker 4: the Indiana Pacers and that record that you talked about
Speaker 4: is seven to one, when he scores twenty or more,
Speaker 4: the assisted turnover ratio is outstanding. But in order for
Speaker 4: the Pacers to win this series, it is all about
Speaker 4: that score. It is all about getting to the free
Speaker 4: throw line, which, by the way, how many free throw
Speaker 4: attempts has he had in this series so far in
Speaker 4: two games zero. This guy needs to be an attack
Speaker 4: mode in game three. And this isn't just like yay points,
Speaker 4: yay points per game like that's a very caveman looking
Speaker 4: at the at the sport of basketball. But in this case,
Speaker 4: with the way that the defense is loading up on
Speaker 4: Tyre's Halliburton, he's got a break free because it is
Speaker 4: way too hard for the Pacers to get good offense
Speaker 4: when Haliburton is playing in this passive mode where he
Speaker 4: has a nineteen percent usage rate, which is below average
Speaker 4: forget about stars or superstars I'm talking third or fourth
Speaker 4: options on good teams having this kind of scoring responsibility.
Speaker 4: He's got to have more and I just think that
Speaker 4: that is going to make a big difference for Indiana
Speaker 4: game three if Tyre's Taliburton's attacking.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I have a two part question for you,
Speaker 2: how do they make that happen? And do you think
Speaker 2: they can? Because I'm resigned to the point where I
Speaker 2: don't think Halliburton is going to have enough space based
Speaker 2: off of how you just articulated who Okase is defensively
Speaker 2: and watching what they've done to other perimeter ball dominant players,
Speaker 2: either lead guards or wings like Anthony Edwards. So I
Speaker 2: want you to let me know how Indiana can get
Speaker 2: him loose, and do you think they can actually do it,
Speaker 2: because I'm kind of resigned to the fact that it
Speaker 2: has to be his teammates, I'm not sure he can
Speaker 2: get loose.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is very apparent that this might be over
Speaker 4: in five games and he might not ever get loose.
Speaker 4: Like I'm in total agreement with you, But he has
Speaker 4: to compete. He has to make it tough on lou Dort,
Speaker 4: and when lou Dort has even a step behind Tyres
Speaker 4: Halliburton and gets him off balance, Hallie has to draw contact.
Speaker 4: He can't be afraid of drawing contact. And Halliburton I
Speaker 4: at his best. He is a guy who is able
Speaker 4: to get into the teeth of the defense, get you
Speaker 4: off your feet, and then getting to the free throw
Speaker 4: line getting lou Dort in foul trouble. That's a tall order,
Speaker 4: but he has to be more aggressive in that way
Speaker 4: rather than just getting rid of the ball as soon
Speaker 4: as he sees that dude in his sight. The numbers
Speaker 4: are also really interesting when you look at Halliburton just
Speaker 4: in general this postseason, when he's being guarded by a big,
Speaker 4: say Isaiah Hartenstein, say Evan Mobley, say Giannis Endatacompo, his
Speaker 4: eyes get big. He loves going at those mismatches. In
Speaker 4: those scenarios. He's scoring fifty seven points every one hundred
Speaker 4: possessions when he's going when he's being defended by a big, Okay,
Speaker 4: fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when it's a
Speaker 4: non big, a wing, a point guard that goes from
Speaker 4: fifty seven points to seventeen. Okay. So the Thunder do
Speaker 4: not want to switch Ched Holmgren or Jalen Williams or
Speaker 4: Isaiah Hartenstein onto Tyres Halliburton. And in many ways they
Speaker 4: don't have to, because that's how good their wing defenders
Speaker 4: are Lou Dorp, Cason Wallace and Alex Caruso, Shay Gilders,
Speaker 4: alexand in there too. But if they do switch, and
Speaker 4: he does get that mismatch where he's able to get
Speaker 4: some sort of transaction where he gets going against a big,
Speaker 4: that might be their best option is to just figure
Speaker 4: out a way, whether it's in the pick and roll
Speaker 4: or attacking in transition or doing some deceptive plays where
Speaker 4: they're faking in action and getting into something else that
Speaker 4: draws in Hartenstein. But Halliburton is at his best when
Speaker 4: he gets off of lou dort or Case and Wallace
Speaker 4: Ralis Caruso. And so maybe it's as simple as trying
Speaker 4: to attack the Bigs in ways that he can do
Speaker 4: it in transition a lot easier than in the half court.
Speaker 4: But he has to draw fouls and he has to
Speaker 4: be more aggressive.
Speaker 2: And your point about look, it's the NBA Finals, and
Speaker 2: yes they're Oklahoma City is good defensively and this stuff
Speaker 2: is hard is well taken so like the greatest in
Speaker 2: the history of the game, and you know the narrative
Speaker 2: and conversation surrounding Halliburton and the whole like, well the
Speaker 2: players told the athletic he's overrated? Is he a superstar?
Speaker 2: Like that stuff is exhausting to me. But your point
Speaker 2: stands like, if you do want to be considered somebody
Speaker 2: who sits at that lunch table, you have to figure
Speaker 2: it out against defenses that are that are designed schematically
Speaker 2: to stop you, because that doesn't you know that that
Speaker 2: doesn't stop the great Historically you wanted titles. So do
Speaker 2: you think Halliburton personally is up for the challenge based
Speaker 2: of how you articulated that he simply just has to
Speaker 2: step up and compete.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he's a lot like Chris Paul in
Speaker 4: that it's in his DNA to set the table for
Speaker 4: others rather than trying to hero ball his way out
Speaker 4: of this series. One stet that I found astounding when
Speaker 4: I was looking into this and Tyree Taliburton and his
Speaker 4: you know, quote unquote passivity or his lack of usage rate,
Speaker 4: it's it's very similar to Chris Paul. Chris Paul all
Speaker 4: time great, incredibly good at maintaining possession and methodically breaking
Speaker 4: down the defense. Chris Paul in all his years, he
Speaker 4: only had two seasons of twenty point scoring and only
Speaker 4: one time did he shoot twenty five times in a
Speaker 4: playoff game. It's just not how he's built, Chris Paul.
Speaker 4: He's more interested in setting the table, getting improving his teammates,
Speaker 4: making sure his other teammates are getting involved, rather than
Speaker 4: going out and trying to get forty. And I think
Speaker 4: Tyree's Halliburton is built the same way. They have like
Speaker 4: them Muggsy Bogues and John Stockton, they have like identical
Speaker 4: I assist to turnover ratios. They are very careful with
Speaker 4: the ball and they rarely make mistakes. But I also
Speaker 4: think some of that is part and parcel to why
Speaker 4: he doesn't want to go out and play hero ball.
Speaker 4: He's not built like MJ. He's not built like Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 4: He's not built like Shake Gildris Alexander and that's okay.
Speaker 4: Like Chris Paul, all time great, one of the fifty
Speaker 4: best players to ever lace them up, John Stockton as well.
Speaker 4: I think he's more in that category rather than someone
Speaker 4: who's going to win an MVP or someone who's gonna
Speaker 4: win a finals MVP. At this stage where he's just
Speaker 4: whipping the hearts out of the opponent for forty eight minutes,
Speaker 4: he can do it in the last two minutes of
Speaker 4: games this season with a shot to go ahead or
Speaker 4: a shot to tie. He's shooting thirteen to fifteen from
Speaker 4: the floor. But I think what's interesting about that stats.
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous, by the way, it's a ridiculous stat But
Speaker 4: I think the reason, part of the reason why he's
Speaker 4: able to be so efficient and so good in those
Speaker 4: lat and close situations this season is because he's not
Speaker 4: tiring himself out for the rest of the forty six
Speaker 4: minutes of the game, and you look at this series,
Speaker 4: he's just not as aggressive in the first two quarters.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I don't think you
Speaker 4: can have one without the other. I think it's interesting.
Speaker 4: Tyre Salburn has been so good in clutch situations this year.
Speaker 4: I think part of that is because he's got enough
Speaker 4: gas left in the tank to do those plays when
Speaker 4: everyone else is run down and tired, and so I
Speaker 4: do think that there's a relationship there that Tyree's taliburt
Speaker 4: is as good as he is in clutch situations. I
Speaker 4: don't think you're getting that prime Tyree Taliburton, rip your
Speaker 4: heart out in the endgame stage when he's going and
Speaker 4: trying to score every time down the floor in the
Speaker 4: first three quarters. So it's a delicate balance, and I
Speaker 4: think he's more Chris Paul than he is Shake Gilsris Alexander,
Speaker 4: And to me, he's got to have at least one
Speaker 4: if they're going to win this series, they've got to
Speaker 4: have at least one epic Shay gildsris. I mean Tyree
Speaker 4: Taliburton game where he's got thirty and fifteen. It's gonna
Speaker 4: take that against this OKAC team, Like I think this
Speaker 4: is going to be over and five. I've picked that
Speaker 4: in before the series. And if Haliburton wants to be
Speaker 4: a legend legendary all time player like he has shown
Speaker 4: in the first three rounds, it's gonna take another historic
Speaker 4: performance that isn't gonna be just twelve or thirteen shots
Speaker 4: in the game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a couple of good points in there.
Speaker 2: My favorite is the parallel between Halliburton and SGA. That's
Speaker 2: not the correct line to draw here, just to say
Speaker 2: it's those two against each other as far as you
Speaker 2: know who's gonna go off and who's gonna lead their team.
Speaker 2: They lead their team in different ways. It's a false equivalency.
Speaker 2: They're different players. But if we move over to the Thunder,
Speaker 2: you know it was funny because Game two I thought
Speaker 2: was just tremendously boring because it's what okay, okayc just does.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like death with a thousand paper cuts.
Speaker 2: It started out back and forth. The Pacers looked okay,
Speaker 2: and if you've been watching the Thunder all year long,
Speaker 2: it's just it's what they've done all year and I
Speaker 2: harkened back to what Chris Finch said after Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: eliminated the Timberwolves when a media member and his postgame
Speaker 2: presser said, what did you learn about your team tonight?
Speaker 1: And he said nothing, because this is who we are.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is just a mountain that's too
Speaker 2: tall for the Pacers to climb. But if you look
Speaker 2: at the moments of success they've had in this series,
Speaker 2: which even though it's one one, it hasn't been a
Speaker 2: lot of moments like ninety six minutes of play, ninety
Speaker 2: minutes or so have been dominated by the Thunder. But
Speaker 2: as they go back home, what do the Pacers do
Speaker 2: with what feels like kryptonite if you try to sell
Speaker 2: out to stop Shaye. They've got plenty of shooters that
Speaker 2: can knock down shots. How do they corral this team
Speaker 2: that when they're ticking, they just feel so impossible?
Speaker 4: Tom, Yeah, you know you said it. This OKC team
Speaker 4: has led for basically the entire series, and it was
Speaker 4: an incredible shot making display at the end of Game
Speaker 4: one that they fought back and rallied and won that
Speaker 4: game in epic fashion. But to me, this Thunder team
Speaker 4: is designed to crush teams like the Indiana Pacers, where
Speaker 4: so much of their offense depends on Hollie and them
Speaker 4: hard and they are so good at stopping ball dominant guys,
Speaker 4: guys who are you know, they move the ball quite
Speaker 4: a bit, but that's what OKAC does is they're just
Speaker 4: so ferocious defensively. They're Doberman's out there that I just
Speaker 4: if you're not going to be able to pound them
Speaker 4: in the paint, they're not going to be vulnerable. And
Speaker 4: it's going to come down to Pascal Siakam and Miles
Speaker 4: Turner and Obi Toppin to try to free up the
Speaker 4: other guys and have multiple defenders collapse onto them in
Speaker 4: the paint, and then you can get kind of Tyreese
Speaker 4: going downhill on a hard close out and a kickout.
Speaker 4: That might be their option is to play inside out
Speaker 4: rather than inside in, but that's easier said than done.
Speaker 4: I think I've said this before to the Spence. When you
Speaker 4: watch the Thunder play basketball, especially on defense, it feels
Speaker 4: like it's six on five, but it feels like there's
Speaker 4: six guys out there. That's how well they cover ground
Speaker 4: and how well they close out and recover, help and
Speaker 4: recover and swarm. It doesn't seem right, Like I'm looking around,
Speaker 4: like are there six guys out there? And that's just
Speaker 4: how they play, and so it's gonna be really challenging.
Speaker 4: But they got to pound the paint, play inside out,
Speaker 4: and that's easier said than done.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move over to a story.
Speaker 2: And look, you know my background and upbringing, and I
Speaker 2: still very much cheer for the New York Knicks and
Speaker 2: have enjoyed the fact that they're relevant and somewhat fun again,
Speaker 2: But even in my Nick fandom, I have to chuckle
Speaker 2: at the Hubris where for the first time in thirty years,
Speaker 2: you're somewhat relevant. So your response to your relevance is
Speaker 2: to fire a really good coach.
Speaker 1: And then believe that you can just interview anyone you want.
Speaker 2: Minnesota, Dallas, Houston all said no, you are not allowed.
Speaker 2: So your take on this, and do you have any
Speaker 2: idea who they're going to land on to replace Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 4: Why couldn't they just keep Tibbs and then bring in
Speaker 4: like a Terry Stotts, you know, like if you're worried
Speaker 4: about his rigidity or his inability to think outside the box,
Speaker 4: then I think you keep that guy and try to
Speaker 4: get an offensive coordinator in there to help you think
Speaker 4: more outside the box. And maybe Tibbs is so rigid
Speaker 4: that he will not listen to that guy. But what
Speaker 4: it sounds like to me is that Leon Rose and
Speaker 4: Dolan are not on the same page on this because
Speaker 4: leon Rose, to me, seems like a Tibbs guy that
Speaker 4: from CIA and going back in the day, I think
Speaker 4: that they are they are aligned on this, and the
Speaker 4: fact that James Dolan, from Vinnie Goodwill's reporting at Yahoo's
Speaker 4: Sports and others, seems to be intervening here and meddling
Speaker 4: with this decision and not liking Tom Thibodeaux and being
Speaker 4: the driver of this. This feels like the old Knicks.
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 4: The last few years have felt like this new regime.
Speaker 4: Leon Rose is doing this very methodically and very sophisticated
Speaker 4: long term view. This feels like the old Knicks. And
Speaker 4: I don't mean that in a good way. This feels
Speaker 4: like to me, it feels very knee jerk, It feels
Speaker 4: very emotional, and it also reeks of arrogance that like
Speaker 4: the exceptionalism that you're imbuing on the rest of the
Speaker 4: NBA that you're saying you built this Minnesota team, I'm
Speaker 4: going to steal you away and poach you because we're
Speaker 4: the Knicks. Or the same thing for Ema Udoka and
Speaker 4: the same thing for Jason Kidd. Now, the Jason Kidd
Speaker 4: thing is really interesting to me because the reporting suggests
Speaker 4: that the interest is mutual, that Jason Kidd also wants
Speaker 4: to become a New York Nick. And when you don't
Speaker 4: allow Jason Kidd to get what he wants, There's been
Speaker 4: a pattern here throughout his career, both player and coaching,
Speaker 4: that Jason Kidd will in the end get what he wants.
Speaker 4: And so that to me, Spence is really interesting. Is
Speaker 4: if that is true that Jason Kidd wants to coach
Speaker 4: this team the New York Knicks and the Dallas Mavericks
Speaker 4: denied permission and said no, you will not allow it
Speaker 4: to talk. What does Jason Kidd know? What can Jason
Speaker 4: Kidd do to make this a very uncomfortable situation for
Speaker 4: Nico Harrison and the incoming Cooper flag and Patrick Dumont.
Speaker 4: And that's where this gets really messy and also soap
Speaker 4: opera palace intrigue, where you're looking at Jason Kidd and
Speaker 4: if he truly wants to become a New York Nick.
Speaker 4: This circus has only begun, and I wonder what your
Speaker 4: thoughts are on that. Because Jason Kidd, what he did
Speaker 4: with the Brooklyn Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks, this seems
Speaker 4: like not the end of the story, but possibly the beginning.
Speaker 1: So interesting.
Speaker 2: My read was, potentially Jason Kidd does not want the
Speaker 2: Nick job, because I would imagine, and I don't know this,
Speaker 2: you could very very well be correct. Like you if
Speaker 2: you're Patrick Dumont, if you're Nico Harrison, and the Knicks
Speaker 2: call you, it's Jim Dolan or Leon Rose or whatever
Speaker 2: and they say, we'd like to interview your head coach.
Speaker 2: My guess would be they would talk to Jason and
Speaker 2: say are you interested in this? And if he says
Speaker 2: that he is, I don't want you coaching my team.
Speaker 2: So then I call Leon back and Dolan back, and
Speaker 2: I say, okay, it's going to cost your first rounder
Speaker 2: or whatever. So my read was kind of like, maybe
Speaker 2: they talked to Jason and the reporting is incorrect, he
Speaker 2: does not have interest in that job.
Speaker 1: But honestly don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I think it was Brian Winnhurst
Speaker 4: who reported that it's mutual interest between the two Jason
Speaker 4: Kidd and the New York Knicks. YEP. Now what level
Speaker 4: that is, whether it rises if the interest in Jason
Speaker 4: Kidd supersedes his interest in the Dallas Maverick's job. I
Speaker 4: don't know. He might be interested in both. But the
Speaker 4: Jason Kidd's story is fascinating. The Lawrence Frank in Brooklyn,
Speaker 4: the Prokovs, and the way that he tried to go
Speaker 4: about Billy King in Brooklyn to try to build his
Speaker 4: personnel in a way that he wanted and then they
Speaker 4: just said, we're done with this. You go to Milwaukee
Speaker 4: and we'll get a couple first rounders or second rounders.
Speaker 1: Five.
Speaker 4: I think Jason Kidd is in a very tough spot
Speaker 4: here because he's close with Kyrie, He's close with Jalen Brunson,
Speaker 4: He's close with Anthony Davis, and he's also close with
Speaker 4: the Dumont family and with Nico Harrison. The loyal The
Speaker 4: loyalty seems to be with Dallas. But he's also got
Speaker 4: this Cooper flag expectation coming in, and I think that's
Speaker 4: a tricky thing for a head coach to deal with.
Speaker 4: Is an eighteen year old Cooper Flag entering a win
Speaker 4: now situation with Anthony Davis, can you do the David
Speaker 4: Robinson tim in San Antonio If you don't have a
Speaker 4: full roster around, it's supporting cast. Kyrie Irving's not going
Speaker 4: to play next year or much of next year. And
Speaker 4: so I can understand why Jason Kidd might look at
Speaker 4: what Nico Harrison did with Lucan Dancic and then what
Speaker 4: is going to happen here with Cooper Flag and just say,
Speaker 4: you know what, maybe maybe the Knicks job is a
Speaker 4: lot simpler, you know than what I'm going to have
Speaker 4: to navigate here. So we'll see what happens with Jason Kidd.
Speaker 4: But I think I think Cooper Flag is the real deal.
Speaker 4: I think he's going to be outstanding, And for those reasons,
Speaker 4: I think Jason Kidd would be smart to stay and
Speaker 4: build around that guy. But what Nico Harrison has done
Speaker 4: to build a win now team and trade away Luka Doncic,
Speaker 4: it doesn't look like you can kind of slow play
Speaker 4: this thing. And if I'm Jason Kidd, that's gonna be
Speaker 4: a very tricky situation.
Speaker 2: Why Tom, last thing before I said you lose over
Speaker 2: the past, I'll say four days. We have some reporting,
Speaker 2: including Sarah Todd because you're on the ground and works
Speaker 2: for the Desert Red News and covers the Jazz, Bill
Speaker 2: Simmons on his podcast, and then Zach Lowe has been
Speaker 2: the most recent to either write or say out loud.
Speaker 2: They've been told the Jazz are actively taking phone calls
Speaker 2: on both Lowry Marketen and Walker Kessler. So if we
Speaker 2: take Austin Ainge at his word that there will be
Speaker 2: no tanking or manipulating minutes this season, and they are
Speaker 2: now taking phone calls on who I perceive to be
Speaker 2: honestly the only two good players on their roster right now,
Speaker 2: what does that tell you about what next year might
Speaker 2: look like in sul Lake.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say they're going to try to get
Speaker 4: younger around market in or moving market in and trying
Speaker 4: to get younger. But then Walker Kessler is one of
Speaker 4: the best young bigs in the NBA, So are you
Speaker 4: really going to move him for a younger piece when
Speaker 4: the guy just turned twenty three this year, so like
Speaker 4: he's turning twenty four in July, maybe you try to
Speaker 4: move him for a twenty year old big or a
Speaker 4: twenty one year old big. Just kind of move the
Speaker 4: timeline back a few years and you don't have to
Speaker 4: pay a big extension and see that through. But I
Speaker 4: don't know what moving Walker Kessler does for you. I
Speaker 4: don't know now. If Cooper Flag is coming down the
Speaker 4: pike and you're trying to figure out Marketing and Flag
Speaker 4: and Walker Kessler, I can understand why you move one,
Speaker 4: but not both of those guys, I don't. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know what the move would be on Walker
Speaker 4: Kessler moving him. I can understand marketing. There's a bunch
Speaker 4: of contenders that could see Marketing as a missing piece,
Speaker 4: as a floor space or a dynamic offensive driver. But
Speaker 4: the Walker Kessler piece doesn't make sense to me because
Speaker 4: he seems like a guy to help build around at
Speaker 4: twenty three years old, not someone that you're going to
Speaker 4: move away to try to win now. It's just I
Speaker 4: don't see it, and it doesn't seem to be able
Speaker 4: to be reconciled the idea that you would want to
Speaker 4: win now but also move Lowry, Markinen and Walker Kessler.
Speaker 4: So that doesn't add up to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the only time will tell, all right,
Speaker 2: my friend, thanks for stopping buying a game day enjoy
Speaker 2: the game tonight, have a great week.
Speaker 1: We'll chat to him, you guys. Fence all right, The
Speaker 1: Great Tom Haberstrow