WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:01.399 The Sad News Today. 2 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:05.360 Brian Wilson, songwriter and lead singer the Beach Boys, died 3 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:08.679 at the age of eighty two. My first concert of 4 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:13.160 my life Beach Boys, Paramount Theater, New York. I was 5 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.359 I think eleven years old. Brian Wilson was not with 6 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:19.120 the group. In fact, I think it was only two 7 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:21.039 of the founding members, and in order to keep the 8 00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:25.280 audience attention, they marched out like twelve scantily clad women 9 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:25.960 in bikinis. 10 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:27.760 My father was covering my eyes the whole time. 11 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:31.719 Yeah, it's cool. It is the Beach Boys, I guess technically, 12 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.280 But like I have friends that are my age that like, say, 13 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:35.880 they've hit seen the Grateful Dead. 14 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:39.479 Yeah, does it count if Jerry wasn't there, And does 15 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:41.679 it count seeing the Beach Boys of Brian Wilson was 16 00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:42.119 not present. 17 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:43.439 I'm not sure that it does. 18 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.880 Maybe a little more of my generation, but it's like 19 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:48.560 sublime with the other guy. 20 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:49.560 Yeah, it's not the same. 21 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.079 I think Kevin Loves Uncle is in the band and 22 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:54.439 he was there. I think it's Mike Love Anyway, nobody 23 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:57.719 gives a rip. Tom Haberstrow Wednesday afternoon. All right, Tom, 24 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.439 right off the top, first concert that you ever in 25 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:00.840 your life. 26 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:05.760 Jack Johnson, Ben Harper at Central Park. 27 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.159 Very nice, very nice, very Northeast. 28 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:12.640 Loved that, and they were I mean, what year was that, 29 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:14.319 because that must have been when those two were just 30 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:15.200 kind of at their peak. 31 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.879 I want to say it was like two thousand and three, 32 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:23.640 something like that. I remember taking the train into New 33 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:28.439 York with my buddies and just it was. It was 34 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:32.400 an incredible night. And I don't think any of us, 35 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.840 even if we didn't partake in anything, I don't think 36 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:36.400 you'd come home from a concert. 37 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:36.799 Like that sober. 38 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.359 It's just in the air everywhere, So that that was 39 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:45.319 an experience I would say with a Beach Boys. I 40 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.599 always come back to the Beach Boys as maybe the 41 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:52.879 greatest American band ever rock and roll as a genre. 42 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:54.799 If you were to point to what is the greatest 43 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:59.439 rock and roll band in American history, I think people 44 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:05.200 might throw out Pearl Jam or Aero Smith or something 45 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.840 of that caliber or genre. But I think the Beach 46 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:11.479 Boys might have a stake to that claim. And I 47 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:12.879 don't know if you guys had any thoughts on that. 48 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:14.199 Yeah, I don't know that you're wrong. 49 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:17.400 I mean, my bias brain goes to DMB, but that's 50 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:21.280 not a popular answer. I think grateful Dead the Doors, 51 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:22.759 Tom Petty Eagles. 52 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:24.759 You referenced Darrow Smith. 53 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:27.439 If you want to go like hipster Howard Beck, you 54 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:28.599 could talk r em. 55 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:29.280 But it. 56 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:32.680 Might be the Beach Boys. Tom, you might be right 57 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:34.319 about that. I don't know that I have much a 58 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:34.919 problem with that. 59 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:41.000 Yeah, in terms of influence and the ingenuity of what 60 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:44.879 they were doing, and I think it was kind of 61 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:48.280 just I don't know innovation is the right word here, 62 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:53.479 but the sound was unlike anything we'd heard. And so 63 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.639 I think it's been a tough week in music. And 64 00:02:56.719 --> 00:03:01.159 I would say Brian Wilson passing away, that's a tough one. 65 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.120 But the old debate about what is the greatest American 66 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.879 rock and roll band or band, I think Beach Boys 67 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.039 deserve a spot in that conversation. 68 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:12.879 I think you're correct, and certainly on this day today, 69 00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:15.280 I will not push back. I know van Halen for 70 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:17.360 some probably's in the conversation. I was never a big 71 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.439 van Halen guy. But anyway, Tom, we can make our 72 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.840 way over to a little basketball. We'll start with the finals. 73 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:25.719 I do have a couple of jazz questions we'll save 74 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:30.199 those for the end. You know, every game day in 75 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:33.000 the finals and certainly leading up to the game as well, 76 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.080 when you listen to the debate shows or listen to 77 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.400 NBA pods, you know, people on the pacer side of 78 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:39.159 things will say, this is. 79 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:40.080 All about Halliburton. 80 00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:41.960 You know, there's seven and one when he scores twenty 81 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.199 or more points in the playoffs, and during those games 82 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:47.400 he just scores twenty or more, he also averages around 83 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:48.879 ten as sis And I want to be clear, I'm 84 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.639 not saying it's not about Halliburton. It's just not about 85 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:56.599 him entirely based off of the defensive perimeter prowess of OKC. 86 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:59.960 They shut down Jamal Murray, they shut down Anthony Edward, 87 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.280 Words and Tom the players that toward the Knicks for 88 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.080 the most part, have not been the same players over 89 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.000 the first two games in the NBA Finals. So let's 90 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.520 start with Indiana side and your opinion on Okay, is 91 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.520 this all about Halliburton if he's aggressive early on, are 92 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:16.519 they gonna win it? Or do these other players need 93 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:18.800 to look the way they look against looked against the Knicks. 94 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:24.680 Well, I think it starts with the OKC defenders. Alex Caruso, 95 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:29.079 Case and Wallace. Lou Dort being the primary defender on 96 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.720 Tyrese Halbert has absolutely bitten the head off the snake. 97 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:34.959 You look at what Dort has done this season, last 98 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:40.160 season against Tyrese Haliburt, he is Halle Kryptonite. Hallie can't 99 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.920 break free. He can't shake free on lou Dort. On 100 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:48.279 that final possession in Game one, when he got down 101 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:51.319 the floor and Case and Wallace is guarding him, I said, 102 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.160 it's going up and it's going in because where's lou Dort. 103 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.519 The guy puts him in a straight jacket. Every time 104 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.519 they go at each other, Tyree Taliburn passes the ball up. 105 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:06.199 He does not like going at lou Dort. And in 106 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:11.160 this series, in two games with Dort guarding him or 107 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:16.600 Alex Carusa guarding him, seventy one possessions seventy one possessions 108 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:20.439 of basketball with those two guys guarding him, Tyree Taliburton 109 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.759 has scored two points. He's one for eight shooting. He 110 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:28.000 has four assists of three turnovers. With Caruso and lou Dort, 111 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:32.279 it is the biggest problem the Pacers have faced is 112 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:39.040 this test against okc's unbelievably good defenders, they can't get 113 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:43.800 Tyree Taliburton going. And in this series he has a 114 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.079 nineteen point nine usage rate that is league average. That 115 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:51.160 is like I look this up in usage right by 116 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.199 the way, for the listeners, that is what percentage of 117 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:56.600 your team's possessions are you using to try to score? 118 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:01.480 And in this series, Shagilds ers Alexander that thirty six 119 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.839 percent of Okay c'se possessions are going to Shay Giljos 120 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:09.000 Alexander for him trying to score. Tyry Tyliburton is actually 121 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:14.079 below average Naji Marshall. Naji Marshall for the Dallas Mavericks 122 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.360 was at twenty percent this season. So what Lou Dort 123 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:23.319 and Alex CRUs will have done in this series is 124 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:28.319 they've turned Tyree Taliburton into a role player. And that 125 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:31.279 is the biggest problem here is that when you see 126 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:35.120 the Indiana Pacers and that record that you talked about 127 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.560 is seven to one, when he scores twenty or more, 128 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:43.160 the assisted turnover ratio is outstanding. But in order for 129 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.560 the Pacers to win this series, it is all about 130 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.519 that score. It is all about getting to the free 131 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.199 throw line, which, by the way, how many free throw 132 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:54.000 attempts has he had in this series so far in 133 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.600 two games zero. This guy needs to be an attack 134 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:01.240 mode in game three. And this isn't just like yay points, 135 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:04.519 yay points per game like that's a very caveman looking 136 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.720 at the at the sport of basketball. But in this case, 137 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.959 with the way that the defense is loading up on 138 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:16.000 Tyre's Halliburton, he's got a break free because it is 139 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:19.560 way too hard for the Pacers to get good offense 140 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:23.519 when Haliburton is playing in this passive mode where he 141 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.639 has a nineteen percent usage rate, which is below average 142 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:32.800 forget about stars or superstars I'm talking third or fourth 143 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:37.439 options on good teams having this kind of scoring responsibility. 144 00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:41.160 He's got to have more and I just think that 145 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.040 that is going to make a big difference for Indiana 146 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:45.879 game three if Tyre's Taliburton's attacking. 147 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.759 Okay, So I have a two part question for you, 148 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:50.240 how do they make that happen? And do you think 149 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:52.480 they can? Because I'm resigned to the point where I 150 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.879 don't think Halliburton is going to have enough space based 151 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.959 off of how you just articulated who Okase is defensively 152 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:02.839 and watching what they've done to other perimeter ball dominant players, 153 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:06.839 either lead guards or wings like Anthony Edwards. So I 154 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:09.839 want you to let me know how Indiana can get 155 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:12.079 him loose, and do you think they can actually do it, 156 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:13.720 because I'm kind of resigned to the fact that it 157 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:15.360 has to be his teammates, I'm not sure he can 158 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:15.879 get loose. 159 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.959 Yeah, it is very apparent that this might be over 160 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.439 in five games and he might not ever get loose. 161 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:26.800 Like I'm in total agreement with you, But he has 162 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.439 to compete. He has to make it tough on lou Dort, 163 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:34.440 and when lou Dort has even a step behind Tyres 164 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:39.039 Halliburton and gets him off balance, Hallie has to draw contact. 165 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.720 He can't be afraid of drawing contact. And Halliburton I 166 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:46.519 at his best. He is a guy who is able 167 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.919 to get into the teeth of the defense, get you 168 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.840 off your feet, and then getting to the free throw 169 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:54.919 line getting lou Dort in foul trouble. That's a tall order, 170 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:57.679 but he has to be more aggressive in that way 171 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:00.559 rather than just getting rid of the ball as soon 172 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:04.000 as he sees that dude in his sight. The numbers 173 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.120 are also really interesting when you look at Halliburton just 174 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:12.000 in general this postseason, when he's being guarded by a big, 175 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:18.159 say Isaiah Hartenstein, say Evan Mobley, say Giannis Endatacompo, his 176 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.639 eyes get big. He loves going at those mismatches. In 177 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:27.279 those scenarios. He's scoring fifty seven points every one hundred 178 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:30.840 possessions when he's going when he's being defended by a big, Okay, 179 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:34.360 fifty seven points every one hundred possessions when it's a 180 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:38.720 non big, a wing, a point guard that goes from 181 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:44.759 fifty seven points to seventeen. Okay. So the Thunder do 182 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:47.600 not want to switch Ched Holmgren or Jalen Williams or 183 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.679 Isaiah Hartenstein onto Tyres Halliburton. And in many ways they 184 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:55.159 don't have to, because that's how good their wing defenders 185 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:59.600 are Lou Dorp, Cason Wallace and Alex Caruso, Shay Gilders, 186 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:03.679 alexand in there too. But if they do switch, and 187 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.279 he does get that mismatch where he's able to get 188 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:10.600 some sort of transaction where he gets going against a big, 189 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:14.159 that might be their best option is to just figure 190 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.200 out a way, whether it's in the pick and roll 191 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:22.559 or attacking in transition or doing some deceptive plays where 192 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.080 they're faking in action and getting into something else that 193 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:30.120 draws in Hartenstein. But Halliburton is at his best when 194 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:32.399 he gets off of lou dort or Case and Wallace 195 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:35.960 Ralis Caruso. And so maybe it's as simple as trying 196 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.120 to attack the Bigs in ways that he can do 197 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:41.440 it in transition a lot easier than in the half court. 198 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:43.200 But he has to draw fouls and he has to 199 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:43.960 be more aggressive. 200 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.679 And your point about look, it's the NBA Finals, and 201 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:51.720 yes they're Oklahoma City is good defensively and this stuff 202 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.720 is hard is well taken so like the greatest in 203 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:59.200 the history of the game, and you know the narrative 204 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:02.639 and conversation surrounding Halliburton and the whole like, well the 205 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:05.440 players told the athletic he's overrated? Is he a superstar? 206 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:08.200 Like that stuff is exhausting to me. But your point 207 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.120 stands like, if you do want to be considered somebody 208 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.759 who sits at that lunch table, you have to figure 209 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:17.440 it out against defenses that are that are designed schematically 210 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.320 to stop you, because that doesn't you know that that 211 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.279 doesn't stop the great Historically you wanted titles. So do 212 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:27.279 you think Halliburton personally is up for the challenge based 213 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:29.879 of how you articulated that he simply just has to 214 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:30.960 step up and compete. 215 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.960 Yeah, I think he's a lot like Chris Paul in 216 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.519 that it's in his DNA to set the table for 217 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.519 others rather than trying to hero ball his way out 218 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.480 of this series. One stet that I found astounding when 219 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:45.840 I was looking into this and Tyree Taliburton and his 220 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.279 you know, quote unquote passivity or his lack of usage rate, 221 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.399 it's it's very similar to Chris Paul. Chris Paul all 222 00:11:54.440 --> 00:12:01.120 time great, incredibly good at maintaining possession and methodically breaking 223 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:06.120 down the defense. Chris Paul in all his years, he 224 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:13.240 only had two seasons of twenty point scoring and only 225 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.120 one time did he shoot twenty five times in a 226 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:21.799 playoff game. It's just not how he's built, Chris Paul. 227 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:26.320 He's more interested in setting the table, getting improving his teammates, 228 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.799 making sure his other teammates are getting involved, rather than 229 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.840 going out and trying to get forty. And I think 230 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.840 Tyree's Halliburton is built the same way. They have like 231 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.679 them Muggsy Bogues and John Stockton, they have like identical 232 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.799 I assist to turnover ratios. They are very careful with 233 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.639 the ball and they rarely make mistakes. But I also 234 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.600 think some of that is part and parcel to why 235 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:55.639 he doesn't want to go out and play hero ball. 236 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.240 He's not built like MJ. He's not built like Anthony Edwards. 237 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.919 He's not built like Shake Gildris Alexander and that's okay. 238 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.519 Like Chris Paul, all time great, one of the fifty 239 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.399 best players to ever lace them up, John Stockton as well. 240 00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:13.399 I think he's more in that category rather than someone 241 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.279 who's going to win an MVP or someone who's gonna 242 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.639 win a finals MVP. At this stage where he's just 243 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.440 whipping the hearts out of the opponent for forty eight minutes, 244 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:23.840 he can do it in the last two minutes of 245 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.480 games this season with a shot to go ahead or 246 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:30.600 a shot to tie. He's shooting thirteen to fifteen from 247 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.919 the floor. But I think what's interesting about that stats. 248 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:36.919 It's ridiculous, by the way, it's a ridiculous stat But 249 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:38.960 I think the reason, part of the reason why he's 250 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.879 able to be so efficient and so good in those 251 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.000 lat and close situations this season is because he's not 252 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.120 tiring himself out for the rest of the forty six 253 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.480 minutes of the game, and you look at this series, 254 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:52.679 he's just not as aggressive in the first two quarters. 255 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:56.840 I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I don't think you 256 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.000 can have one without the other. I think it's interesting. 257 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:01.879 Tyre Salburn has been so good in clutch situations this year. 258 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:04.799 I think part of that is because he's got enough 259 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.320 gas left in the tank to do those plays when 260 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:11.120 everyone else is run down and tired, and so I 261 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.240 do think that there's a relationship there that Tyree's taliburt 262 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.320 is as good as he is in clutch situations. I 263 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.679 don't think you're getting that prime Tyree Taliburton, rip your 264 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.120 heart out in the endgame stage when he's going and 265 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.039 trying to score every time down the floor in the 266 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.080 first three quarters. So it's a delicate balance, and I 267 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:33.840 think he's more Chris Paul than he is Shake Gilsris Alexander, 268 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.519 And to me, he's got to have at least one 269 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:39.799 if they're going to win this series, they've got to 270 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:43.759 have at least one epic Shay gildsris. I mean Tyree 271 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.360 Taliburton game where he's got thirty and fifteen. It's gonna 272 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.279 take that against this OKAC team, Like I think this 273 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:51.679 is going to be over and five. I've picked that 274 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.919 in before the series. And if Haliburton wants to be 275 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:59.799 a legend legendary all time player like he has shown 276 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:03.840 in the first three rounds, it's gonna take another historic 277 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.120 performance that isn't gonna be just twelve or thirteen shots 278 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:07.519 in the game. 279 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:09.519 Yeah, a couple of good points in there. 280 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:16.759 My favorite is the parallel between Halliburton and SGA. That's 281 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.799 not the correct line to draw here, just to say 282 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.799 it's those two against each other as far as you 283 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.159 know who's gonna go off and who's gonna lead their team. 284 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.720 They lead their team in different ways. It's a false equivalency. 285 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.519 They're different players. But if we move over to the Thunder, 286 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.799 you know it was funny because Game two I thought 287 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:38.519 was just tremendously boring because it's what okay, okayc just does. 288 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.279 I mean, it's like death with a thousand paper cuts. 289 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:44.360 It started out back and forth. The Pacers looked okay, 290 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.799 and if you've been watching the Thunder all year long, 291 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:49.639 it's just it's what they've done all year and I 292 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:53.360 harkened back to what Chris Finch said after Oklahoma City 293 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.200 eliminated the Timberwolves when a media member and his postgame 294 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.679 presser said, what did you learn about your team tonight? 295 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:01.720 And he said nothing, because this is who we are. 296 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.919 I feel like this is just a mountain that's too 297 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.399 tall for the Pacers to climb. But if you look 298 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.360 at the moments of success they've had in this series, 299 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.120 which even though it's one one, it hasn't been a 300 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.639 lot of moments like ninety six minutes of play, ninety 301 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:17.679 minutes or so have been dominated by the Thunder. But 302 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:21.039 as they go back home, what do the Pacers do 303 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.639 with what feels like kryptonite if you try to sell 304 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:25.720 out to stop Shaye. They've got plenty of shooters that 305 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.679 can knock down shots. How do they corral this team 306 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:30.840 that when they're ticking, they just feel so impossible? 307 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:37.639 Tom, Yeah, you know you said it. This OKC team 308 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:42.000 has led for basically the entire series, and it was 309 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.120 an incredible shot making display at the end of Game 310 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.519 one that they fought back and rallied and won that 311 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:54.759 game in epic fashion. But to me, this Thunder team 312 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.240 is designed to crush teams like the Indiana Pacers, where 313 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:04.319 so much of their offense depends on Hollie and them 314 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:09.880 hard and they are so good at stopping ball dominant guys, 315 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.480 guys who are you know, they move the ball quite 316 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.000 a bit, but that's what OKAC does is they're just 317 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.440 so ferocious defensively. They're Doberman's out there that I just 318 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:24.279 if you're not going to be able to pound them 319 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:28.480 in the paint, they're not going to be vulnerable. And 320 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.680 it's going to come down to Pascal Siakam and Miles 321 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:36.559 Turner and Obi Toppin to try to free up the 322 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.039 other guys and have multiple defenders collapse onto them in 323 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.759 the paint, and then you can get kind of Tyreese 324 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:46.279 going downhill on a hard close out and a kickout. 325 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.079 That might be their option is to play inside out 326 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.680 rather than inside in, but that's easier said than done. 327 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:55.640 I think I've said this before to the Spence. When you 328 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.359 watch the Thunder play basketball, especially on defense, it feels 329 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.960 like it's six on five, but it feels like there's 330 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:04.519 six guys out there. That's how well they cover ground 331 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:07.160 and how well they close out and recover, help and 332 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.559 recover and swarm. It doesn't seem right, Like I'm looking around, 333 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.960 like are there six guys out there? And that's just 334 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.519 how they play, and so it's gonna be really challenging. 335 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.319 But they got to pound the paint, play inside out, 336 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:20.759 and that's easier said than done. 337 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.519 All right, let's move over to a story. 338 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:25.640 And look, you know my background and upbringing, and I 339 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.799 still very much cheer for the New York Knicks and 340 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:31.519 have enjoyed the fact that they're relevant and somewhat fun again, 341 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:34.680 But even in my Nick fandom, I have to chuckle 342 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.359 at the Hubris where for the first time in thirty years, 343 00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:42.079 you're somewhat relevant. So your response to your relevance is 344 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:43.759 to fire a really good coach. 345 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.119 And then believe that you can just interview anyone you want. 346 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:51.400 Minnesota, Dallas, Houston all said no, you are not allowed. 347 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:53.720 So your take on this, and do you have any 348 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.440 idea who they're going to land on to replace Tom Thibodeau. 349 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.440 Why couldn't they just keep Tibbs and then bring in 350 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.559 like a Terry Stotts, you know, like if you're worried 351 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:11.480 about his rigidity or his inability to think outside the box, 352 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.799 then I think you keep that guy and try to 353 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.400 get an offensive coordinator in there to help you think 354 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.480 more outside the box. And maybe Tibbs is so rigid 355 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.920 that he will not listen to that guy. But what 356 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:28.920 it sounds like to me is that Leon Rose and 357 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.079 Dolan are not on the same page on this because 358 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:36.440 leon Rose, to me, seems like a Tibbs guy that 359 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.039 from CIA and going back in the day, I think 360 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.759 that they are they are aligned on this, and the 361 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.559 fact that James Dolan, from Vinnie Goodwill's reporting at Yahoo's 362 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.119 Sports and others, seems to be intervening here and meddling 363 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.799 with this decision and not liking Tom Thibodeaux and being 364 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.480 the driver of this. This feels like the old Knicks. 365 00:19:59.519 --> 00:19:59.839 Again. 366 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.079 The last few years have felt like this new regime. 367 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.039 Leon Rose is doing this very methodically and very sophisticated 368 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.799 long term view. This feels like the old Knicks. And 369 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.960 I don't mean that in a good way. This feels 370 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:23.839 like to me, it feels very knee jerk, It feels 371 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:29.119 very emotional, and it also reeks of arrogance that like 372 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.920 the exceptionalism that you're imbuing on the rest of the 373 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.279 NBA that you're saying you built this Minnesota team, I'm 374 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:40.200 going to steal you away and poach you because we're 375 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.759 the Knicks. Or the same thing for Ema Udoka and 376 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.039 the same thing for Jason Kidd. Now, the Jason Kidd 377 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.680 thing is really interesting to me because the reporting suggests 378 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.920 that the interest is mutual, that Jason Kidd also wants 379 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.000 to become a New York Nick. And when you don't 380 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.559 allow Jason Kidd to get what he wants, There's been 381 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:05.559 a pattern here throughout his career, both player and coaching, 382 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:09.039 that Jason Kidd will in the end get what he wants. 383 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.519 And so that to me, Spence is really interesting. Is 384 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.759 if that is true that Jason Kidd wants to coach 385 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:18.319 this team the New York Knicks and the Dallas Mavericks 386 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.240 denied permission and said no, you will not allow it 387 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.440 to talk. What does Jason Kidd know? What can Jason 388 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.799 Kidd do to make this a very uncomfortable situation for 389 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:34.880 Nico Harrison and the incoming Cooper flag and Patrick Dumont. 390 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:38.799 And that's where this gets really messy and also soap 391 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:43.319 opera palace intrigue, where you're looking at Jason Kidd and 392 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.240 if he truly wants to become a New York Nick. 393 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:50.680 This circus has only begun, and I wonder what your 394 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.119 thoughts are on that. Because Jason Kidd, what he did 395 00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:57.200 with the Brooklyn Nets and the Milwaukee Bucks, this seems 396 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.599 like not the end of the story, but possibly the beginning. 397 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:01.960 So interesting. 398 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:05.640 My read was, potentially Jason Kidd does not want the 399 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.640 Nick job, because I would imagine, and I don't know this, 400 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.240 you could very very well be correct. Like you if 401 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.279