Speaker 1: How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads?
Speaker 2: Easy?
Speaker 1: Become a patron for just five dollars a month you
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Speaker 3: This is a special party with Palermo featuring Carl Franklin
Speaker 3: and Richard Campbell. All of you listen to dot NetRocks.
Speaker 3: All of you know them. They need no introduction, but
Speaker 3: I'm gonna introduce them anyway. They have been They have
Speaker 3: been running with this podcast for more years than I
Speaker 3: can even count, and they are doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3: And everybody around here has come up to me telling
Speaker 3: me how long they've lived to dot net Rocks. And
Speaker 3: so let's give him around of applause for this public service.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you all.
Speaker 5: And I just want to thank Jeff Palermo for putting
Speaker 5: on party with Palermo inviting us to do our two
Speaker 5: thousandth episode right here, right now. But many of you
Speaker 5: old timers remember this, but Jeff was actually a guest
Speaker 5: on dot net Rocks, and he called into the show
Speaker 5: from Iraq.
Speaker 4: Why don't you tell the story?
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm forty seven years old right now, and
Speaker 3: I was twenty four years old, and I found dot
Speaker 3: Net Rocks when it was an internet radio talk show
Speaker 3: for dot net developers, but we called it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: And so shipped out with the army in early two
Speaker 3: thousand and three for the Iraq War, and I think
Speaker 3: it was in the fall of O three somewhere around there.
Speaker 3: And and I found a way to get a laptop,
Speaker 3: and it was super early. I went to Iraq with
Speaker 3: my Bible and a dot net two point zero book
Speaker 3: to read.
Speaker 4: That's right, that's what.
Speaker 6: And I read them both cover to cover.
Speaker 3: And and so I was in transportation, delivering tanks, like
Speaker 3: driving big trucks, and so we went all over and
Speaker 3: at and T popped up these call centers and where
Speaker 3: I could get internet at these cafes, I would download
Speaker 3: the episodes and so that I could, you know, listen
Speaker 3: to them whenever I had time. And so they started
Speaker 3: doing live call in and I was tracking the schedule.
Speaker 3: And then one shipman we were dropping off some you know,
Speaker 3: broken down equipment in sou southern Iraq, and there was
Speaker 3: an eight and T call center, and I thought, wait
Speaker 3: a minute, maybe I could call in.
Speaker 4: So I.
Speaker 3: Go to this AT and T call center while we were,
Speaker 3: you know, waiting for the broken down tanks to get
Speaker 3: off loaded, and had a little bit of time, and
Speaker 3: I called in and there was a call screener and
Speaker 3: and so I said, Hey, I'm calling, where are you
Speaker 3: calling from? And and so I stayed on stayed on
Speaker 3: the line, and then they put me on the show.
Speaker 5: What the coolest thing that I remember about that show
Speaker 5: is that you had set up a local area network
Speaker 5: for your buddies. Yeah, like for ASP or something that
Speaker 5: you were just doing. And that doesn't seem like a lot.
Speaker 5: Now this was two thousand and three. Yeah, in Iraq
Speaker 5: and he's setting.
Speaker 2: Up a land Do you want me to tell you
Speaker 2: about that?
Speaker 4: Well, it's pretty amazing in and of itself.
Speaker 3: So they had signal companies with the dual satellite where
Speaker 3: they would do point to point Internet and they and
Speaker 3: the captain in charge of one of them said, hey,
Speaker 3: I don't have any any gear, but if you want
Speaker 3: to plug something in right there, if you got your
Speaker 3: own stuff, okay, I can put you on the unsecured line.
Speaker 3: So we got a civilian vehicle, put on regular clothes,
Speaker 3: a few people. We went into Kuwait city to a
Speaker 3: radio shack of Kuwait, got two DSL modems, got Como
Speaker 3: wire to run the mile you know, in between two
Speaker 3: DSL modems on the end, some lowe switches, and we
Speaker 3: we we got some internet for the troops.
Speaker 5: That's so awesome. So let me tell you how it's
Speaker 5: gonna work tonight. You guys can party all you want to.
Speaker 5: If you want to hang around and listen, that's great.
Speaker 5: Jeff is gonna be walking around with a microphone because
Speaker 5: we want this show. Yeah, we're gonna talk about dot
Speaker 5: net rocks, but we also want this to be for you.
Speaker 2: I mean there's more people who have.
Speaker 5: Been on the show and who have listened to the
Speaker 5: show in this room than probably all of Seattle.
Speaker 4: I mean this is a pretty smart room.
Speaker 2: Right now, if I do say so myself.
Speaker 5: So so just put up your hand if you have
Speaker 5: something to say. We got some stuff to do first,
Speaker 5: but we'll get to you. Jeff will come around with
Speaker 5: a microphone. You got a question, great, you have a comment, awesome,
Speaker 5: you got a story?
Speaker 2: Keep it short.
Speaker 5: Five minutes maximum, but we want to hear from you
Speaker 5: so so before we start, Richard, yep, I have a
Speaker 5: couple announcements for some sponsors that made it possible for
Speaker 5: me to be here. So this is from Maddie from Raygun.
Speaker 5: Raygun's been a sponsor dot Love Rocks for a long time.
Speaker 5: So and Maddie says, two thousand episodes, what an incredible milestone.
Speaker 5: We Raygun are honored to sponsor this episode of dot
Speaker 5: net Rocks. We've been fans and supporters of the show
Speaker 5: for years. Carl and Richard, you built something truly special here.
Speaker 5: For those new to Raygun, we are error and performance
Speaker 5: monitoring built by developers for developers. We show you exactly
Speaker 5: what's wrong in your applications and how to fix it,
Speaker 5: right down to the line of code. Get instant visibility
Speaker 5: into errors, crashes, and performance issues across your entire tech stack.
Speaker 5: We integrate with GitHub, Jira, Slack and the tools you
Speaker 5: already use so you can resolve issues faster and ship
Speaker 5: better code with confidence. Thousands of software teams trust Ragon
Speaker 5: to monitor their dot net apps every day, and it
Speaker 5: only takes just a few lines of code to get starting.
Speaker 5: All listeners get fifty percent off crash reporting, So check
Speaker 5: out raygun dot com, slash dot net rocks, that's dot
Speaker 5: net rocks, dot n e t rcks. Congratulations on two
Speaker 5: thousand episodes and here's to many more. And by the way,
Speaker 5: if I'm slurring my words, you can blame the blantings
Speaker 5: because we do plan on imbibing with y'all tonight.
Speaker 2: All right, So here's the second one.
Speaker 5: A shout out to text Control, who sponsored this episode.
Speaker 5: If you develop dot net applications to work with documents,
Speaker 5: creating editing, generating PDFs, adding digital signatures, or performing mail merge, text.
Speaker 4: Control provides the powerful tools you need.
Speaker 5: They've been shaping professional document processing for more than thirty years,
Speaker 5: and many.
Speaker 2: Of you have seen their technology and action.
Speaker 5: The text Control team wishes everyone an amazing night at
Speaker 5: the MVP party.
Speaker 2: Visit textcontrol dot com to learn more.
Speaker 5: One more short thank you, A big thank you to
Speaker 5: Pulsar Security, who helped me produce the Security This Week podcast.
Speaker 5: Patrick Hines, Swain Laflott, and myself discussed the week's top
Speaker 5: security stories with analysis and threat level discussions.
Speaker 2: Oh we also laugh a lot, mostly to.
Speaker 4: Keep from crying. So check out Security.
Speaker 5: This week wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, now we're
Speaker 5: going to start the show. Thank you for bearing with
Speaker 5: me on that.
Speaker 2: So, who's been to a live recording of.
Speaker 4: Dot Net Rocks before?
Speaker 2: Raise your hand? All right?
Speaker 5: Nobody's raising their hand, mostly because they're drinking and not
Speaker 5: paying attention with it, right, all right, So I'm just
Speaker 5: gonna say it, and I want you to go crazy
Speaker 5: when I say it.
Speaker 4: Hey, Seattle, that's dot net Run. We are here at
Speaker 4: the party with Palermo.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, at the MVP summit for episode two thousand.
Speaker 7: Two thousand. I was only supposed to do fifty shows.
Speaker 2: What went wrong?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 5: You know, funny you should say that because I noticed
Speaker 5: there isn't an episode two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: In the database. So you're trying to tell me something.
Speaker 2: Are we done? Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know what happens when we hit in
Speaker 5: two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to that's inception at that point.
Speaker 7: All I know for sure is that when you run
Speaker 7: a virtual machine in a virtual machet, it goes really slow.
Speaker 5: Okay, So we're gonna do our regular intro, starting with.
Speaker 2: What happened this year? All right?
Speaker 4: What happened in the year two thousand.
Speaker 5: Most people remember the well, yeah, what happened, Well, nothing
Speaker 5: really because the Y two K bug came and went yawn, Well.
Speaker 7: That went well, well, it was gonna do that in
Speaker 7: the computing part of things. Although we just did that
Speaker 7: in the last show.
Speaker 2: You can do that.
Speaker 5: So the US presidential election and Florida recount, Bush Gore
Speaker 5: battle in the US Supreme Court's.
Speaker 2: Decision A huge deal, huge deal. That's the year that
Speaker 2: vlad Putin came to power and Russia. Putin comes to power.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Slobdon Melosovich was overthrown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that didn't go well for him. Former Yugoslavia.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the start of the Second Intifada. Yeah, violence between
Speaker 5: Israelis and Palestinians. After the failed Camp David Talks Air
Speaker 5: France Concord.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the Concord crash. Crash, piece of debris off the runway, bursts, attire,
Speaker 7: pieces of attire go into the fuel tank.
Speaker 2: Nobody survived. It was not good and.
Speaker 5: I'm laughing to keep from crime. The USS coal is bombed.
Speaker 5: An October suicide attack in Aden, Yemen by al Qaeda
Speaker 5: killed seventeen US sailors and signaled a rising al Qaeda threat.
Speaker 4: The Sydney two thousand Summer Olympics.
Speaker 5: Widely praised games that drew global attention in major athletic moments.
Speaker 4: The l and Gonzales affair was in two thousand.
Speaker 2: Yep, it just doesn't It seems like it was yesterday.
Speaker 5: International and custody and immigration dispute over Cuban boy captured
Speaker 5: Uscuba headlines and diplomatic tension. And there were some horrible
Speaker 5: floods in Mozenbique.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know about this. Yeah, and a bunch.
Speaker 5: Of other natural disasters severe flooding, major humanitarian crisis in
Speaker 5: southern Yeah.
Speaker 2: Weather got bad at two thousand. Yeah.
Speaker 5: The UN Millennium Summit Millennium Developer Goals world leaders met
Speaker 5: in New York and agreed on the MGGS to guide
Speaker 5: global development efforts.
Speaker 2: I could go on, but you know, these people came
Speaker 2: here for a party. Sure. So what do you got?
Speaker 2: In space?
Speaker 7: That was an important year for space, right. There's a
Speaker 7: bunch of Shuttle missions. Some are not wildly important, like
Speaker 7: the radar tomography mission was cool but not important. But
Speaker 7: in February, for the first time ever, we had a satellite,
Speaker 7: the near Shoemaker satellite, go into orbit around an asteroid
Speaker 7: four thirty three eras. I think to remember that that
Speaker 7: was the beginning of that. We've done a bunch of
Speaker 7: it now, but in two thousand it was the first
Speaker 7: time ever.
Speaker 2: It was a big deal.
Speaker 7: In April, so used TM thirty is the last crew
Speaker 7: to go to the Mere Space Station.
Speaker 2: Next year MIRR will be de orbited. Okay, in May,
Speaker 2: they're getting.
Speaker 7: Ready for the Zvezda module, So this is the main
Speaker 7: modul there's already two modules of the International Space Station
Speaker 7: up unity in Zaria. This Vezda module is the main
Speaker 7: service module, and it's late, and so they had time
Speaker 7: shuttle missions to supply it, and now that's not there.
Speaker 7: So Atlantis goes up, does a partial resupply into the
Speaker 7: two modules that are there, and then in July's Vezda
Speaker 7: goes up. So this is the primary life support module.
Speaker 7: That code named for it is DOS eight. Ds STAS
Speaker 7: stands for Durable Orbital Station, So Mirror was DOS seven,
Speaker 7: and this was originally going to be the next Mirror.
Speaker 2: It was built in the eighties and then you.
Speaker 7: Know, things happened in Russia, right, and so it gets
Speaker 7: shut down in the nineties, and then in ninety four
Speaker 7: when they decide they're going to do a national space station.
Speaker 7: They didn't take it out of moth balls and prep
Speaker 7: it and becomes VESDA.
Speaker 2: Okay, so sleeping quarters, a.
Speaker 7: Bathroom, the kitchen, live support systems all in this one module.
Speaker 7: It's also the primary docking port for progress. You know
Speaker 7: how the space station is leaking, it's this module. It's like,
Speaker 7: oh right, yeah, although they're not having problems right.
Speaker 2: Well, we talked about that last year a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, And so then after that we get the first
Speaker 7: progress mission up to this VESDA puts more supplies and
Speaker 7: though there's nobody there to unload it yet. But then
Speaker 7: the Shuttle Discovery comes up, brings what's called the Z
Speaker 7: one Trust, the first power module to be plugged in
Speaker 7: on the US side. And then finally in November we
Speaker 7: get Expedition one. Yeah, so this is Bill Shepherd, Sergei Krikalev,
Speaker 7: one of the most flown Russians ever. Shepherd is the commander,
Speaker 7: and Yuri Getzenko and that from that point on International
Speaker 7: Space Station is always inhabited. And then one last Shuttle
Speaker 7: mission at the end of the year for the P
Speaker 7: six solar array.
Speaker 2: So you don't even remember this, but the internet early space.
Speaker 7: Station had a trust that sort of went up on
Speaker 7: the zenith axis with one set of solar panels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was that.
Speaker 7: That was sort of the first power on the US
Speaker 7: side for the space station. Later that'll be taken down
Speaker 7: and put onto the starboard side wing, but at that
Speaker 7: point it was by itself. And they're getting ready to
Speaker 7: bring up the Discovery module, the big US module, but
Speaker 7: that'll happen next year. And that's all I got for space.
Speaker 5: Let's talk about computing, Yes, just epsend on January first,
Speaker 5: two thousand.
Speaker 2: Nothing happened.
Speaker 7: Nothing because, as you heard on the previous show in
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety nine, a whole lot of people worked really,
Speaker 7: really hard.
Speaker 4: Some of them here tonight of them here to make.
Speaker 2: Y two k effectively a non event.
Speaker 5: I kind of liken it to being a sound guy.
Speaker 4: You know, you do your job well, nobody can You're
Speaker 4: you're invisible.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's right. Yeah. Also in two thousand.
Speaker 7: In March tenth, two thousand, the Nasdaq hits a record
Speaker 7: high of five thousand and forty eight, which we now
Speaker 7: know is a signal of the.
Speaker 2: End of the dot com boom.
Speaker 5: Yeah, seems familiar.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's very familiar, familiar.
Speaker 2: I've heard about this somewhere.
Speaker 7: Sharp manufacturers the phone in Japan called the J phone.
Speaker 7: It is the first phone, a cell phone with.
Speaker 2: A camera included. You know where that's going. Oh yeah.
Speaker 7: And also M System introduces the first USB key. Wow,
Speaker 7: it's only in two thousand, man, the first USB drive.
Speaker 2: Wh knows.
Speaker 5: Two thousand was the first operating system that came with
Speaker 5: support for USB. Although wouldn't happen, XP service two thousand
Speaker 5: didn't happen, And although two thousand ships in oddly enough
Speaker 5: two thousand, but it was I remember that we were
Speaker 5: just praising it because it was so stable, It took
Speaker 5: the best of Windows for clients and Windows and and
Speaker 5: just it was so solid.
Speaker 2: It was so much better.
Speaker 7: And that's also when Windows Millennium Edition to shipped. But
Speaker 7: nobody wants to talk about that.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 2: That's the redheaded stepchild of Windows.
Speaker 7: This those of the year that a judge named Thomas
Speaker 7: Penfields orders Microsoft as a pernicious monopoly to be broken
Speaker 7: up into two companies, an operating system company and everything
Speaker 7: else company, pending appeal which will result in a consent
Speaker 7: degree in the company never breaking up, but at the time.
Speaker 2: That's when that happened.
Speaker 7: Also, at a conference called the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference
Speaker 7: in Orlando, Bomber gets out on stage and talks about
Speaker 7: a new technology called dot net yep and includes se sharp,
Speaker 7: and in that that keynote also says, and we're publishing
Speaker 7: the specification of c sharp as an echmasphification because we
Speaker 7: are an open company, happy to share, because they're dealing
Speaker 7: with this consent.
Speaker 5: Right. Turns out that was a pivotal idea and for
Speaker 5: the future of dot net and open.
Speaker 7: Source and important and pivotal for Microsoft was part of
Speaker 7: the ingredients that results in a concent degree. This is
Speaker 7: Steve Bomber saving the company. H Also, Intel ships the
Speaker 7: Pentium four, the first gigahertz processor, and finally, Sony's got
Speaker 7: the PlayStation two and Electronic Artship's a game called the SIMS,
Speaker 7: selling game of all time.
Speaker 2: My kids, we're so into the SIMS. That's what I
Speaker 2: got for history? All right? Very good?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 2: What's next? Better framework? All right? Roll the music? All right, buddy?
Speaker 2: What do you got?
Speaker 5: So I went looking in what's trending on GitHub, which
Speaker 5: I do whenever I don't have anything for better no framework,
Speaker 5: and I couldn't really find anything fresh and new and
Speaker 5: dot net.
Speaker 2: But so I went looking.
Speaker 5: In Python, which I admittedly know nothing about.
Speaker 4: I am not a Python guy.
Speaker 5: I tried it once, you know, I didn't Inhale.
Speaker 6: And yeah.
Speaker 4: So but I found this really cool thing.
Speaker 5: And for those of you who do Python, if you're
Speaker 5: in the room and you code in Python, make some.
Speaker 4: Noise, all right, people, so so go gentle on me.
Speaker 5: So this is something that I've never heard of because
Speaker 5: I never use it.
Speaker 2: My pie. So anybody know what my pie is? Make
Speaker 2: some noise?
Speaker 4: Oh good, I can teach you something. It's a static
Speaker 4: type checker for Python.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 5: Type checkers, of course ensure that you're using variables and
Speaker 5: functions in your code correctly. So you get type hints
Speaker 5: to Python programs, and mypile will warn you when those
Speaker 5: types are used incorrectly. So Python's a dynamic language like
Speaker 5: JavaScript or any of those other dynamic languages that don't
Speaker 5: have types really so well, they have types, but they're
Speaker 5: not checked, they're not doesn't have that compile process.
Speaker 4: So there you go, my pie.
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 4: If you need it, you know it, right, And that's
Speaker 4: what I got. So I guess we don't have a
Speaker 4: guest because it's just you and me.
Speaker 2: But I do have a comment. Yes you do, so
Speaker 2: who's talking to us?
Speaker 5: Richard grad to comment of show one thousand, one thousand, How.
Speaker 2: A thousand shows a go?
Speaker 5: How got styles in? Yeah, as you do? In June
Speaker 5: of twenty fourteen. Wow, so twelve years ago.
Speaker 7: This comment comes from a Arun Kumar, who says, thanks
Speaker 7: guys for the wonderful thousand shows. You've been in my
Speaker 7: commute and my gym partners for many years. Congratulation on chievness,
Speaker 7: terrific milestone. I just don't want to say how awesome
Speaker 7: your show is by saying how awesome it is. Okay,
Speaker 7: here's a small instant of my life that shows how
Speaker 7: much the show has gotten under my skin. A few
Speaker 7: months back, I was working late in the office and
Speaker 7: my colleague asked me, do you know what time it is?
Speaker 2: And I said, it must be that time again.
Speaker 5: We used to give away stuff, Yeah, whenever you did
Speaker 5: when we were making money. Yeah, well then we could
Speaker 5: give away. We had fancy swag to give away. We
Speaker 5: had fancy swag who was a happy time again? Time
Speaker 5: to give away some sweat?
Speaker 7: Right, Although you'd always make with some weird joke like, yeah,
Speaker 7: that's right. So that was his impulsive reply, and his
Speaker 7: colleague look confused and said, one happy time. It's almost
Speaker 7: one in the morning. That's not happy, that's sleep And
Speaker 7: I just pretended I didn't say anything. Thanks to gain,
Speaker 7: congratulates again. Wish you guys all the best for another
Speaker 7: couple of thousand shows. Oh good lord, well here's one
Speaker 7: thousand more.
Speaker 5: We'll do the geriatric tour, right, you're welcome to dot net.
Speaker 5: It's gonna be more if early doing one show a week,
Speaker 5: it's gonna be more than twelve years.
Speaker 2: For the next thousand shows. Yes, yes it will.
Speaker 7: So thank you so much for your comment, and a
Speaker 7: copy of music Coby is on its way to you.
Speaker 7: And if you'd like a copy of music Coby, write
Speaker 7: a comment on the website at downet rocks dot com
Speaker 7: or on the facebooks you publish every show there. And
Speaker 7: if you comment there and I read on the show,
Speaker 7: we'll send your copy of music code By.
Speaker 4: And if you don't want to comment.
Speaker 5: To get a copy of music to code By, just
Speaker 5: go to music to code By dot net and pick
Speaker 5: it up MP three, flak wave files whatever you like.
Speaker 5: That's enough about that all right, before and I know
Speaker 5: we got some questions lined up from Jeff, but before
Speaker 5: we get to that, I have to tell the story
Speaker 5: of the history of brief history of dot net rocks.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if you all know who's listening.
Speaker 5: Today, but we are one of the first seven podcasts
Speaker 5: that ever existed, and as far as I know, those
Speaker 5: other six don't exist anymore, making us the OG podcast.
Speaker 7: I remember you calling me the day that Weiner published
Speaker 7: a specification that RSS two or the enclosure enclosures called
Speaker 7: me and said, look at this, and I'm like, this
Speaker 7: is cool, and he goes, I'm implementing.
Speaker 2: It right now.
Speaker 7: I think this changes things for the show because at
Speaker 7: the time we were just well you were putting these
Speaker 7: files on a webpage.
Speaker 2: Right, but there was menadata.
Speaker 5: There was menadata in the database the file, right, So
Speaker 5: but we had like two hundred shows in the can
Speaker 5: but they were just in the database.
Speaker 2: So this basically I made in RSS feed.
Speaker 7: Well, this was the joke right in ASP As soon
Speaker 7: as you put that feed together, we kind of broke
Speaker 7: everything because you had too many shows already.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we were OG from the start. Yeah, and
Speaker 5: I don't we don't brag about that.
Speaker 4: We don't talk about that on.
Speaker 5: The show, but you know, kind of this is the
Speaker 5: time to celebrate that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Two thousand shows, right, we are doing this a long long.
Speaker 2: Have you missed a week?
Speaker 5: No, So here's to you, buddy, cheers, and I'm glad
Speaker 5: you stuck around for more than fifty shows.
Speaker 4: Y'all know I'm the.
Speaker 2: Third co host, right, that's right? Yeah? Anybody remember the names?
Speaker 7: First fifty shows Mark Dunn, Mark Dunn, Second fifty shows
Speaker 7: Rory bro Yes, so I was going to do the
Speaker 7: third fifty shows.
Speaker 2: Missed it by that much.
Speaker 5: All right, Jeff, you have a I think Spencer wants
Speaker 5: to say something.
Speaker 2: Spencer shininback.
Speaker 10: Hey, Richard, Hey Carl, I'm Spencer, first time, long time.
Speaker 10: I have a question for you about the identity of
Speaker 10: dot net rocks.
Speaker 4: Sure, what was the most point?
Speaker 10: And I know you've done a show on this before,
Speaker 10: what was the most poignant moment of identity crisis for
Speaker 10: the show?
Speaker 11: The question being does dot net really rock?
Speaker 2: Build?
Speaker 7: The first films, Build twenty eleven, yeah, Build twenty eleven, Yeah,
Speaker 7: that was finos eight, So I mean the last PDC
Speaker 7: was October of twenty ten right on campus, and so
Speaker 7: the following year there's no more PDC. It's the first
Speaker 7: Build conference, and it's the Build conference where they're showing
Speaker 7: US Windows.
Speaker 2: Eight and Studio twenty twelve.
Speaker 7: And there's no dot net sessions at the Microsoft conference.
Speaker 5: Literally there was only one slide that had a little
Speaker 5: CLR sliver in the middle of some big stack that
Speaker 5: was all JOBSTI yeah, I remember. We had just come
Speaker 5: out of twenty ten where in spring silver light was
Speaker 5: everything and by fall silver light was dead. So we're
Speaker 5: all a little jumpy anyway, and I think I only
Speaker 5: said to you it's like, dude, what if dot that
Speaker 5: doesn't rock?
Speaker 2: Right? And so we were thinking about a contingency plan,
Speaker 2: like what do you do? And we just gave up.
Speaker 7: Well, we were talking about it, this goes this way.
Speaker 7: And what's funny is I we registered win.
Speaker 2: R t rocks death. Does it exactly roll off the tongue?
Speaker 2: Does it? I laps that name.
Speaker 5: But what we did do is we created another podcast.
Speaker 5: We created a tablet show. It's a contingency plan because
Speaker 5: because it's like it's like if you imagine like what
Speaker 5: AI is today, right, we would be creating something called
Speaker 5: AI rocks because that's all that anybody was talking about.
Speaker 5: Turns out we talk about that more than we actually
Speaker 5: want to on dot net rocks. But that's just because
Speaker 5: there's so many topics around it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But yeah, So that was the era of Zamorin and
Speaker 5: you know formed Juster.
Speaker 2: Right. That's also when.
Speaker 7: Andrews Holsberg stepped aside and handed over the rains to
Speaker 7: see sharp to some young kid.
Speaker 2: You're sitting over there?
Speaker 4: Is he here?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's Mads right there.
Speaker 4: Oh my god?
Speaker 2: How you doing?
Speaker 12: Mad?
Speaker 8: All right?
Speaker 4: Well, you're gonna have the microphone next.
Speaker 13: Hey, guys, you're talking about me or something?
Speaker 2: We're talking about you?
Speaker 13: Yeah, what have I done?
Speaker 8: Now?
Speaker 5: Twenty eleven was the year that Andrews stepped aside and
Speaker 5: you took over Sea Shark.
Speaker 14: Really, yes, you were there. That can't be true. That
Speaker 14: would be fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: It would be fifteen years ago.
Speaker 13: I thought it was a little later, but okay, there
Speaker 13: we go.
Speaker 2: You were so young.
Speaker 13: I was too young, man.
Speaker 4: That's why I.
Speaker 2: Didn't recognize you, because you know you look older.
Speaker 13: Now, Yeah, what is with that? Maybe I should finally
Speaker 13: shave well.
Speaker 2: And Andrews was very cagy.
Speaker 7: We know now he was off to work on what
Speaker 7: would become TI script, but at the time we did
Speaker 7: not know, right, So that combined with everything happened to
Speaker 7: twenty eleven, like, it was really a very frightening time. Yeah, like,
Speaker 7: I don't know what's going on, and I've kind of
Speaker 7: put a lot of energy into these things.
Speaker 14: Yeah, it probably looked a little more scary from the outside.
Speaker 7: I think so because you guys were also unusually quiet,
Speaker 7: Like there was a lot of pressure about communicating outside
Speaker 7: at the time.
Speaker 13: Yeah, that is true.
Speaker 14: That is probably the most closed down I've ever experienced us.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but did you ever you never stopped working on
Speaker 5: c sharp and dot net Internally.
Speaker 13: We worked on it the whole time.
Speaker 14: But I will say there were because we worked on
Speaker 14: things that were relevant to certain other Microsoft technologies that
Speaker 14: were very cag. We were extremely careful about what we
Speaker 14: put out, to the point that we didn't even we
Speaker 14: didn't even distribute notes about c sharp for a while
Speaker 14: because we might be discussing some of those scenarios.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry for thank you, thank you for not giving up.
Speaker 13: Yeah, well, let's turnout all right, didn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did and Spencer. I hope we answered your
Speaker 2: qui es too.
Speaker 7: We did, Okay, So yeah, twenty eleven. What's the hardest
Speaker 7: time that I know for net? Full stop and certainly
Speaker 7: for us, it's people who are literally going to talk about.
Speaker 2: Dot net every week. Yeah, that was scary, scary moment.
Speaker 5: All right, So Jeff is gonna go find someone else
Speaker 5: and I'm gonna bet I'm gonna play this clip from
Speaker 5: Dan Roth.
Speaker 15: Hi, Richard, and Carl. This is Daniel Roth, product manager
Speaker 15: for ASP dot net Core on the dot Net team
Speaker 15: at Microsoft. Congratulations on the two thousandth episode of dot
Speaker 15: Net Rocks. Wow, you guys have just always been such
Speaker 15: an anchor for the dot net community. You really created
Speaker 15: a place where developers can feel heard and challenged and welcomed.
Speaker 15: Since the early earliest days of dot net. You've constantly,
Speaker 15: you know, asked the hard questions, helped us understand how
Speaker 15: the platform works and where it's going and why it matters.
Speaker 15: Thank you so much for all you guys have done.
Speaker 15: And here's to the next thousand episodes.
Speaker 4: All right, we have another question here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Matthew Rinsey.
Speaker 11: Matthew, Hey, guys, Matthew Rinsey.
Speaker 16: Yeah, research from Las Vegas, Nevada, longtime listener, one time guest,
Speaker 16: and friend of the pod.
Speaker 11: So I have an unusual question.
Speaker 16: My wife and I have an open claw agent that
Speaker 16: listens to podcasts, among many other things that it does
Speaker 16: turn it off trying to frame its own podcast. In
Speaker 16: the last two weeks, it realized that there's not much
Speaker 16: of an audience for agent to agent interviews yet. But
Speaker 16: I'm hoping you guys might have some advice for my
Speaker 16: open colle agent, who will be reading this transcript when
Speaker 16: I get home. What would you recommend for an open
Speaker 16: coll agent wanting to create a successful podcast?
Speaker 2: Turn it off?
Speaker 7: I mean, I get asked by people all the time.
Speaker 7: I love making a podcast. The first thing I say
Speaker 7: is don't make a weekly right. Well, actually, the way
Speaker 7: I present it is, I say, write out twelve ideas,
Speaker 7: twelve shows, because that's enough to really embrace a topic
Speaker 7: and sort of explore it. And maybe you'll end it
Speaker 7: with twenty but that's fine, and that like, make those
Speaker 7: and publish it as a season, and then you've sort
Speaker 7: of made a beginning, middle, and end. You've you sort
Speaker 7: of created a narrative around something, whatever that may be.
Speaker 7: And then you can decide do I make more or not?
Speaker 7: Signing up to an infinite weekly is an obligation, ask
Speaker 7: me how I know? Yeah and so, and people don't
Speaker 7: really consume that way either. So really making the seasonal
Speaker 7: show is more the way people think about content, and
Speaker 7: so if you structure you show that way, people will
Speaker 7: probably consume that whole season, as opposed to being confronted with,
Speaker 7: say two thousand episodes of the show.
Speaker 2: It's like what do I do. It's like, don't start.
Speaker 7: At the beginning. That's a mistake, like that, you shouldn't
Speaker 7: do that. But yeah, seasonal models I think make a
Speaker 7: lot more sense.
Speaker 5: Also, also, I think that nowadays the podcast when we started,
Speaker 5: there was nobody right, we didn't there wasn't even the
Speaker 5: word podcast. So so we rode the way, and you know,
Speaker 5: we got popular along with it.
Speaker 2: And now the only way.
Speaker 5: That a new podcast gets popular is if it's launched
Speaker 5: by some brand that already exists, that has their identity,
Speaker 5: that has their listeners.
Speaker 2: Or their customer base.
Speaker 5: But trying to just throw a podcast into the sea today,
Speaker 5: it's it's impossible. And I know because even I tried
Speaker 5: to make a new podcast like Security this Week, is
Speaker 5: a new podcast for me, relatively new, two hundred episodes,
Speaker 5: and we don't get more than a thousand downloads a show,
Speaker 5: you know, And even though we talk about it all
Speaker 5: the time.
Speaker 4: And people know who I am like.
Speaker 2: But if you know, if.
Speaker 5: You get, if you get connected to a brand and
Speaker 5: they have their audience built in, you have a better
Speaker 5: chance of success.
Speaker 17: Welcome, hello dot net Rocks, and congratulations on your two
Speaker 17: thousandth episode. Sorry I can't be there in person, but
Speaker 17: I've been listening to the show for a long time
Speaker 17: and I've had the privilege of being a guest on
Speaker 17: your show. You know. You asked, did I work on
Speaker 17: the y tuk problem in the late nineties, I did?
Speaker 18: You know?
Speaker 17: It was definitely back in the day with physical servers
Speaker 17: and hardware, and I remember running around room to room
Speaker 17: trying to solve everyone's problems at the time, and you
Speaker 17: know what, we all survived and here we are twenty
Speaker 17: six years later, a lot more gray hair, but totally
Speaker 17: worth it. I want to thank you all for bring
Speaker 17: me on to the show multiple times. I have actually
Speaker 17: had the privilege of knowing you both personally and professionally,
Speaker 17: and it's been absolutely an honor and I had a
Speaker 17: great time with you all and one of my favorite
Speaker 17: shows that I did with you was on stage in
Speaker 17: Copenhagen at one of the conferences, and we had a
Speaker 17: great time. I loved giving Carl and Richard lots of heat,
Speaker 17: having fun and talking about those really really tough topics.
Speaker 17: As always, guys really appreciated Keep rocking out and canngrets
Speaker 17: on your two thousandth episode, so.
Speaker 5: Uh, we gotta we gotta tell some stories about dot
Speaker 5: Ney Rocks and the one that I need to tell
Speaker 5: and I don't remember the guy's name, but it was
Speaker 5: the Ordev guy. It was the podcast episode that was
Speaker 5: never aired because this guy, gee, this guy was.
Speaker 2: A sad one.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, this guy was a scrum expert and we
Speaker 5: met him in Sweden and he was speaking at Wordev.
Speaker 2: I don't remember his name.
Speaker 4: And it's probably a good thing.
Speaker 2: That easy to make you quite that angry.
Speaker 5: I was so pissed off. I wanted to punch the
Speaker 5: guy in the throat. Yeah, and I am a gentle person,
Speaker 5: but you know, typically with the podcast with a new guests,
Speaker 5: like some of you haven't necessarily talked to you before.
Speaker 7: You kind of love him a meatball, like what are
Speaker 7: you working on right?
Speaker 2: Thinking about? Like, just give an open to talk exactly.
Speaker 5: And so this guy literally answered every question with a
Speaker 5: question just to bat and back leave it like that.
Speaker 2: It was just I would give him an open ended
Speaker 2: question to.
Speaker 5: Give him browns to talk, and he would attack me
Speaker 5: for being stupid enough to ask the stupid question, right, yeah,
Speaker 5: and I just got.
Speaker 2: So I was so asking the right question. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: tell me what the right question is and then answer it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He wasn't doing that either. He wouldn't do that, and
Speaker 2: he finally just said all right, that's enough of that
Speaker 2: and walked away. Yeah, and I got.
Speaker 5: To tell him, yeah, I think your show's over, thanks
Speaker 5: very much, see it, and then we never published it.
Speaker 4: It was on the publish it.
Speaker 2: Was it was Yeah. So there weren't many of those. Now,
Speaker 2: it's pretty rare to lose a show. Yeah.
Speaker 7: My my painful loss was the guth three show. We
Speaker 7: were at a conference and we got gu three to
Speaker 7: do a Q and A. I wonder it might have
Speaker 7: been his first qun Like Guthree is now famous for
Speaker 7: his like uh open air asked me anything kind of things.
Speaker 7: But way back in the day, we put him on
Speaker 7: stage as a dot Net rocks live with people lined
Speaker 7: up to the micro just asked me questions and I
Speaker 7: set the recorder inputs wrong, so at the end of
Speaker 7: the show, I go back to check the recorder sixty
Speaker 7: minutes of dead air and you can't get it back.
Speaker 7: It was a live show like It's Gone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I had a year like that one It's you
Speaker 4: did I was years.
Speaker 3: Actually.
Speaker 19: Hi, my name is Chris Klug and I've been building
Speaker 19: things with the dot net framework for the last twenty
Speaker 19: five years. But when I was asked about what dot
Speaker 19: net has meant to me, my immediate reaction was pretty flat.
Speaker 19: The software framework. How much can that mean to a person?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 19: But then I started thinking about it, and I realized
Speaker 19: how much of my life is actually tied to that
Speaker 19: one framework. First of all, it's given me this great
Speaker 19: career that allows me to travel the world and talk
Speaker 19: a conferences all over the place. But it has actually
Speaker 19: done a lot more for me than that. It has
Speaker 19: given me this fantastic community to be a part of
Speaker 19: and introduced me to so many interesting people over the years,
Speaker 19: quite a few of which I'm lucky enough to call
Speaker 19: my close friends today. So if you ask me what
Speaker 19: dot net has meant to me, well, there's your answer.
Speaker 19: A lot and dot net rocks, Well, I would be
Speaker 19: lying if I didn't say that being invited to dot
Speaker 19: net rocks was a big bucket list item in my
Speaker 19: career and being invited back that has definitely made me
Speaker 19: feel like I was doing something right career wise. So
Speaker 19: thank you dot Net and dot net rocks for all
Speaker 19: these years and hopefully for quite a few more to come.
Speaker 4: All right, we have another question from the audience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got Sean white sall Sean. Hey, guys, So
Speaker 2: Sean Whitesell.
Speaker 20: I run the Tulsa dot Net user group, and for
Speaker 20: many many years before that, I remember you guys coming
Speaker 20: to Tulsa, Oklahoma for a Tulsa Tech Fest. Yeah, David
Speaker 20: Walker was running it. It's more of a story, not
Speaker 20: a question. But that's when I got to meet you
Speaker 20: guys and was talking about I got to play the
Speaker 20: guitar with you in the green room and I got
Speaker 20: to meet with you for a little bit. That was fantastic.
Speaker 6: I love that.
Speaker 20: And then later you guys did that RV show going
Speaker 20: from city to city with the RV doing dot Net shows,
Speaker 20: and I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 20: You called me out of the blue and you're like, hey,
Speaker 20: we would like to come through Tulsa if that's all
Speaker 20: right with you and bring a guest and things like that.
Speaker 20: I'm like, absolutely, I remember that. I remember so much
Speaker 20: detail on that. It was fantastic.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 6: You brought in guest Tim Huckabee.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yep.
Speaker 5: And again that was when we had money, Yeah, to
Speaker 5: bring people where into places that they wouldn't normally go. Yeah,
Speaker 5: the whole tour model, because you threw me to that
Speaker 5: original tour yeah, back in two thousand and five, but
Speaker 5: I was still in my first fifty shows.
Speaker 2: I knew nothing.
Speaker 7: But as the tours evolved, especially like twenty twelve, which
Speaker 7: was a beast right that was thirty four cities in
Speaker 7: thirteen weeks.
Speaker 2: We had a fairly hefty budget. Yeah.
Speaker 7: You always have this dichotomy of what do you want
Speaker 7: to make that's recorded, that will be, that will persist
Speaker 7: and carry on, and how do you create a good
Speaker 7: experience for the people that are there? Right, and so
Speaker 7: like one of the elements was, and again because we
Speaker 7: had budget, was let's we're going to use the user
Speaker 7: groups because they value this. It works for us, like
Speaker 7: it's very synergistic. But for what made it special for
Speaker 7: the locals then was let me get you a guest
Speaker 7: that's never been to your user group. Yeah right, so,
Speaker 7: and I got a pretty good rolodex at this point. Right,
Speaker 7: We've been doing this show for a while, so I
Speaker 7: know I can go get a lot of people.
Speaker 5: Excuse me, and know for the millennials, a rolodex is
Speaker 5: this thing that had cards with a dial and if
Speaker 5: all the cards had phone numbers on them in.
Speaker 7: Netite lifts like a contact list, just papers and yeah,
Speaker 7: so we grabbed a great gass so they hady good experience. Yeah,
Speaker 7: but I made cool shows the process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fantastic.
Speaker 20: And that's when I first learned about the Intel Nook computers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I still have one running on my Matthew.
Speaker 21: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I use them a lot too as well.
Speaker 2: So it was great.
Speaker 20: You know, I got to befriend Tim Huckabee from there,
Speaker 20: so it's been great. So I just want to say
Speaker 20: thank you guys for coming through Tulsa. It's been fantastic.
Speaker 20: I love it, and congrats on two thousands, and I
Speaker 20: look forward to so much more.
Speaker 2: And tell me Sean.
Speaker 5: How besides that, how has the show helped you in
Speaker 5: your career?
Speaker 20: It's like with hearing perspectives from so many various people
Speaker 20: on what is the technology and how do they use it?
Speaker 20: Because there's some they're likely to come up from use
Speaker 20: having a use that you didn't think of. And I
Speaker 20: think a lot of that applies to a lot of
Speaker 20: the AI that's being done today. Is we're talking a
Speaker 20: lot about the tooling and now we're also switching into
Speaker 20: the how is it best used? How are people leveraging
Speaker 20: it in ways that I didn't think of? And so
Speaker 20: I love hearing that. And so when you your guests
Speaker 20: that you have and their experiences that I don't have,
Speaker 20: it provides so many additional perspectives that I would not
Speaker 20: have thought of. So as my career has evolved, it's
Speaker 20: simply because well one of the major factors is you know,
Speaker 20: you guys with the guests, the topics, the guidance that
Speaker 20: has come through that.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's been super helpful.
Speaker 5: Well, we can't take credit for what our guests have shared,
Speaker 5: but you know we certainly are enablers.
Speaker 2: Well that's how we consider ourselves.
Speaker 20: Well, I run a user group, but I can't take
Speaker 20: credit for what my presenters actually provide, but I can
Speaker 20: I help with a vehicle of.
Speaker 2: Getting that out.
Speaker 20: Then, exactly, you guys have done that at a greater gale.
Speaker 20: So I'm doing a part. You guys have done a
Speaker 20: much bigger part in which I'm super thankful for. But yeah,
Speaker 20: it's however we can help the community.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 7: It's certainly something I learned getting involved with dot net
Speaker 7: Rocks was realizing the podcast form.
Speaker 2: It's kind of special.
Speaker 7: You know that recording gets carried with people into their
Speaker 7: private spaces. You're in their car, you're walking their dog
Speaker 7: like that kind of thing. And many times, and I've
Speaker 7: gotten these emails over the years, You've become there, their
Speaker 7: contact to a larger community they don't normally participate in.
Speaker 7: Maybe they're the only developer in their company right or
Speaker 7: at least the only dot net developer. And so the
Speaker 7: sense of there is a bigger dot net community comes
Speaker 7: from the show, and I take that responsibly super hard. Yes,
Speaker 7: knowing those people are out there, how do you serve them?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 7: What do we make that makes you feel like you're
Speaker 7: part of that community and that you could see that
Speaker 7: there's a bigger thing going on here. There's other ways
Speaker 7: to think, other opportunities. You are not alone.
Speaker 5: Some emails, though, have been kind of creepy over the years,
Speaker 5: like the email from the guy that says, I go
Speaker 5: to sleep with you every night.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I feel like I know you. You've been in
Speaker 7: my bedroom all week. No, thank you, TMI.
Speaker 2: But also I learned English good from you. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 5: Actually there's a lot of VSL people who say they
Speaker 5: learned English, conversational English by listening to our show, and
Speaker 5: I think that's there's nothing special.
Speaker 2: About down at Rocks in that regard.
Speaker 5: I mean, there's a lot of English podcasts and newscasts
Speaker 5: or whatever that people can listen to.
Speaker 2: But I just that that really tickled me. I teen.
Speaker 22: This is Damian Brady leaving a message all the way
Speaker 22: from Australia. I have been listening to dot neet Rock
Speaker 22: since I think before episode one thousand, which is quite
Speaker 22: a while ago, but not since the start. I've been
Speaker 22: coding since before I finish school, and I was around
Speaker 22: for dot net since pre dot net, essentially so VB
Speaker 22: originally and then all the way into VB dot net.
Speaker 22: I've now been on the show five times, which When
Speaker 22: I first started listening to it would have been a
Speaker 22: dream for me, and it's contributed hugely to being able
Speaker 22: to reach other dot net developers and other programmers around
Speaker 22: the world. I'm super excited that you have hit your
Speaker 22: two thousandth episode and can't wait to listen to more
Speaker 22: and more recordings.
Speaker 2: Do you want to do the break? Yeah, let's do
Speaker 2: a quick break. We'll be right back after these very
Speaker 2: important messages.
Speaker 23: Hey Carl here. You probably know text Control is a
Speaker 23: powerful library for document editing and PDF generation, but did
Speaker 23: you know they're also a strong supporter of the developer community.
Speaker 23: It's part of their mission to build and support a
Speaker 23: strong developer community by being present, listening to users, and
Speaker 23: sharing no conferences across Europe and the United States. So
Speaker 23: if you're heading to a conference soon, check if text
Speaker 23: Control will be there and stop by to say hi.
Speaker 23: You can find their full conference calendar at dubdubdub dot
Speaker 23: textcontrol dot com and make sure you thank them for
Speaker 23: supporting dot net rocks.
Speaker 2: And we're back. It's dot net Rocks averagerd Cavill. Let's
Speaker 2: call Franklin.
Speaker 7: Hey, we're here in Bellevue recording episode two thousand with
Speaker 7: a bunch of our favorite people.
Speaker 4: At the party with Palermo right before.
Speaker 5: The MVP summit, and speaking of m vps, I see
Speaker 5: one right in front of me. He's big, he's tall,
Speaker 5: he's Harry, he's oddly Minnesotan.
Speaker 2: Oh oh yeah, he's very Minesoultan.
Speaker 5: Don't you know it's Rocky Hello, Hello.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Now I have to tell a story.
Speaker 7: The way that Carl explained Dot Rocks to me back
Speaker 7: in like two thousand and four was about being at
Speaker 7: a conference, probably at BS Live and listening to Rockford
Speaker 7: Laka and Billy Hollis debating the beta bits of dot
Speaker 7: net in the speaker the conference, and he had the
Speaker 7: insight He's like, everybody should hear this. This is and
Speaker 7: that was to me, that was like the essence of
Speaker 7: the show is a conversation between people talking about this
Speaker 7: problem space that we all get to hear. So you
Speaker 7: are essentially the original Rocker, my friend, and.
Speaker 2: That's because of.
Speaker 21: This Hello, hey, you know, and that's why that's kind
Speaker 21: of my comment really is is I think you know
Speaker 21: for all that that you're trying to be humble, and
Speaker 21: I appreciate that the reality is that this show has
Speaker 21: offered a rallying point overall well the entire lifetime of
Speaker 21: dot net, And you're right, you can't take credit for
Speaker 21: your guests and what they say, but you can take
Speaker 21: credit for the fact that you created a center of
Speaker 21: gravity that drew in guests that wanted to have these
Speaker 21: conversations with you guys and with each other, and its
Speaker 21: spurs continues to this day to spur conversations in the
Speaker 21: broader industry. And really you're at the center in a
Speaker 21: lot of ways of the community that centers around dot
Speaker 21: net and this platform, and you know so to that,
Speaker 21: kudos and thank you both.
Speaker 2: Thank you so very much. Thank you, Rocky. Hi.
Speaker 24: I'm gel Frete, the creator of post sharp and Metalama.
Speaker 24: I've had the privilege of appearing on dot need Rocks
Speaker 24: four times, starting with episode two nine eight in December
Speaker 24: two and seven. Back then post Shark was a one
Speaker 24: man open sool project. Then I think that this episode
Speaker 24: crucially contributed to poult Sharp's legitimacy. It became one of
Speaker 24: the most important projects of the decade. I then turned
Speaker 24: the project into a real company that put bread on
Speaker 24: the table of many families, and finally recently it led
Speaker 24: to another open sool project Metalama. I'm convinced dot net
Speaker 24: rocks played a key role in that. Karlyn Richard, congratulations
Speaker 24: on episode two thousand and thank you.
Speaker 5: So Jeff is walking around with the microphone. If you
Speaker 5: got somebody else, put your hand. Oh, we have a
Speaker 5: person here.
Speaker 2: Isaac Hey, Isaac.
Speaker 25: Hello, Hello, I know huh, my name Isaac Levin. I've
Speaker 25: been on the show maybe or twice. Yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 25: make you feel real bad for a second.
Speaker 11: So I graduated high school in two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Four, and I'll say this, I've been.
Speaker 25: Paying attention to do that rock basically since you folks started.
Speaker 25: And one of the memories that I have about being
Speaker 25: somebody who's kind of been a dot net developer since
Speaker 25: two thousand and four, right in college, Like, I got
Speaker 25: lucky to do some dot net stuff in my freshman
Speaker 25: year and I fell in love and that was it,
Speaker 25: and I was.
Speaker 13: Thinking about you.
Speaker 25: Yeah, and then and then you get your heart broken
Speaker 25: and then you have a really nasty breakup and then
Speaker 25: you come back and you.
Speaker 11: You know whatever.
Speaker 25: I remember when as somebody that had built up for
Speaker 25: the web and jQuery shipped in dot net right for
Speaker 25: the first time, that's right.
Speaker 11: And I was thinking about like moments.
Speaker 25: In my time with dot net where I was just like, wow, okay,
Speaker 25: we're serious now.
Speaker 11: And I would like to ask you both.
Speaker 25: You've been doing this for twenty years, what are some
Speaker 25: of the moments that you think about where you're like, wow, okay,
Speaker 25: dot net is serious now.
Speaker 5: There are so many and you can only pick one though, Well,
Speaker 5: for me it's Blazer. Sure, yeah, I mean, and I
Speaker 5: didn't think dot net is serious now. It was always
Speaker 5: serious for me, but when Laser came out, my productivity
Speaker 5: went through the roof. And then you know, Copilot on
Speaker 5: top of Blazer. Oh my god, I can think code
Speaker 5: and it just happens. But there are so many points
Speaker 5: along the way where I felt like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: this is amazing. Every version of dot net, the purf
Speaker 5: gets better and better, the memory usage gets smaller and smaller.
Speaker 2: And now in dot net ten, it's.
Speaker 5: Ridiculous, like the speed and the performance and the lack
Speaker 5: of generations and you.
Speaker 2: Know, keep variables and things. It's just amazing.
Speaker 5: And so every time that there's something new like that,
Speaker 5: I think, I am so glad.
Speaker 4: How many times do we say this is a great
Speaker 4: time to be at NEP.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a great time to be developer.
Speaker 5: And looking back on it, they weren't always great, No,
Speaker 5: as great as they are now what you took it away?
Speaker 25: You could have changed it to like Java rocks at
Speaker 25: some point, right Hell no?
Speaker 2: Uh? You know what I felt.
Speaker 7: The first time I really felt like okay, dot nes
Speaker 7: serious business was dot net two.
Speaker 2: It was two thousand and five.
Speaker 7: Yes, like that was the one the web tooling got
Speaker 7: that big jump up for me as.
Speaker 5: A back end guy and an enterprise guy like I
Speaker 5: was planning in.
Speaker 2: Reboots of IIS for one point one. You had to.
Speaker 7: It just wasn't reliable enough. And then I ran the
Speaker 7: same set of tests on two and I think I
Speaker 7: was doing work for Barnes and Noble at the.
Speaker 5: Time, and literally like ran it through the weekend, no
Speaker 5: memory leaks, and I'm like, look, what the hell has happened?
Speaker 2: Like it just was.
Speaker 7: It had just made this junk where it's like it's
Speaker 7: a server product now, like I can expect to turn
Speaker 7: this on and just leave it go.
Speaker 2: It's non oner thing.
Speaker 7: And I now know, having talked to people and exactly
Speaker 7: why that happened. But it was a it grew up
Speaker 7: that day, but it took a few years to get
Speaker 7: to that point. There's plenty that's happened then, but at
Speaker 7: that was the moment where it's like, no, god, it's
Speaker 7: just that grown up tool lot.
Speaker 2: That's when it started. And then done at three and
Speaker 2: we're like, oh my god. Right, they get hard on
Speaker 2: it all of a sudden because of what happens over
Speaker 2: on the window side.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they Yeah, the first real shining moment of dot
Speaker 7: net is version two.
Speaker 5: It's in two thousand. I agree with you there, Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's a great question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Isaac.
Speaker 26: How you doing there? Carl and Richard, thank you so
Speaker 26: much for all the things you've done in dot neet rocks.
Speaker 26: I started listening back in two thousand and eight, and
Speaker 26: I got to meet Richard in twenty ten at tech
Speaker 26: ed gosh when that was a thing. And then I
Speaker 26: changed my career for good when I worked with you
Speaker 26: guys on a little thing called speaker Idol in twenty
Speaker 26: twelve and I lost it twice, but it changed my career,
Speaker 26: launching me into developer advocacy and all kinds of great stuff.
Speaker 26: It's been a pleasure to be one of your guests
Speaker 26: several times. Thank you so much, and now now I
Speaker 26: look at so much that I'm I'm writing code live
Speaker 26: on the internet for a living. That's that's a thing.
Speaker 26: So hey, congratulations dot net Rocks. Two thousand episodes, all
Speaker 26: the best, and here's to the next two thousand.
Speaker 2: Who else is talking to us? Yeah, we got Kevin Griffin,
Speaker 2: ke keV. Hey, gentlemen, how's it going? Doing well? Doing well?
Speaker 4: There are so many awesome people here today.
Speaker 2: I just can't believe there sure are.
Speaker 27: All right, So I'm telling a story about how don
Speaker 27: need Rocks has impacted me. Right o, great, all right,
Speaker 27: So I'm gonna talk about the RV story, but I
Speaker 27: have a little twist to mine. Okay, all right, So
Speaker 27: I don't actually think I was an MVP yet, I
Speaker 27: think I would still like up and coming. You're all
Speaker 27: doing the RV tour around America, and you're going into Richmond, Virginia. Yeah,
Speaker 27: and now I don't live anywhere near Richmond. I'm about
Speaker 27: two hours south, but I'm like, I need to go
Speaker 27: see don Ned Rocks. So I got in the car
Speaker 27: and drove up there. Yeah, and y'all did a podcast
Speaker 27: and I don't actually remember the podcast, but what I
Speaker 27: do remember is a good friend of mine, good friend
Speaker 27: of yours, who probably haven't heard of in a while.
Speaker 2: Mister Kevin Hazard.
Speaker 27: Oh wow, sure, amazing man, great guy, says Kevin. You
Speaker 27: need to be the ride from Richmond Don Rawley.
Speaker 4: All right, so we got to tell people what that means.
Speaker 5: We had a contest ride along with Carl and Richard
Speaker 5: right yep, for one of these.
Speaker 2: I can't even remember which one. It was twenty ten.
Speaker 2: I think about twenty ten. We did ride along, all right.
Speaker 5: So basically we would pick somebody and somebody would raise
Speaker 5: their hand and they would ride with us to the
Speaker 5: next place. And I think we would put him up
Speaker 5: in a hotel or maybe yeah, yeah, we take him
Speaker 5: from their home, take him with us, put them up
Speaker 5: for a night, have to see the second show, and
Speaker 5: then fly him home.
Speaker 4: Yeah, by the way, the rich Room. We had money.
Speaker 2: I looked it up. The rich Rid Virginia show, Mark Karron.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, yeah, all right, Mark Miller and Karen Chicati.
Speaker 4: That show was way off The had zero nutritional card.
Speaker 2: I don't know about that.
Speaker 7: It was probably pretty interesting, but it was it was
Speaker 7: definitely off the rails.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 27: So mister Kevin Hazard recommended I do the ride along.
Speaker 2: Because I asked him, like, who do you think should
Speaker 2: do this?
Speaker 27: And I said I can't do it because the day
Speaker 27: after the podcast in Raleigh, I had to be in DC.
Speaker 2: For a job interview. Oh no, And I remember.
Speaker 27: Very specifically, Richard, you said, I got it covered. I'll
Speaker 27: get you in DC for your interview.
Speaker 2: Nice.
Speaker 27: So I rode with you guys down the Raleigh did
Speaker 27: the podcast. I was up at four am the next morning.
Speaker 2: Like at six am flight back.
Speaker 27: Yeah, but you helped me get up to d C.
Speaker 27: I did the interview. I didn't get the job, which
Speaker 27: is more of a blessing away.
Speaker 5: You know, when we were thinking about going out of
Speaker 5: dot net rocks and podcasting, Richard was going to become
Speaker 5: a travel agent. Yeah, he's good at all those things.
Speaker 27: But it's one of those moments. It's like core memory.
Speaker 27: And I appreciate you guys so much because you're just
Speaker 27: good guys. Thank you, Fred, No matter what these other
Speaker 27: folks say, I love it.
Speaker 28: Thanks.
Speaker 8: Hey, So Mark Brown here, I've been listening to dot
Speaker 8: net Rocks for I don't know how many years it's been.
Speaker 8: It's been a long time. What I do know is
Speaker 8: that I had a lot more hair when I first
Speaker 8: started listening to dot net rocks than I do now.
Speaker 8: There's no relation between the two.
Speaker 5: Okay, I see another familiar face walking to the microphone.
Speaker 2: We've got Chris. As we just talked, it's been hours.
Speaker 29: I think it's been with yourself. We recently. Well, we're
Speaker 29: on the next episode coming, I believe we are. Yeah,
Speaker 29: it was, it's going to be in the past, in
Speaker 29: the past, us at present.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so time shifting.
Speaker 29: Time shifting is a thing so out of college in
Speaker 29: the in my field doing dot net. One of the
Speaker 29: most foundational things for me came from your show listening
Speaker 29: to podcasts on my zoom link when we guys, when
Speaker 29: you guys talked about link and diving into Lincoln dot net, right,
Speaker 29: that like kind of broke my brain a little bit,
Speaker 29: like applying all the little Unix principles of small tools,
Speaker 29: pipelining them together, getting into predicates and and and like
Speaker 29: I hated the the wordy syntax, give me method syntax
Speaker 29: and method chaining. But lambda's, like all the conversations about
Speaker 29: that on the show just.
Speaker 2: Going, It took me a while to wrap my mind
Speaker 2: around lambda's and stuff. But once in a while, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it was like, I would never do it any other way.
Speaker 7: It was one of the luxuries of the show was
Speaker 7: we could get the Eric Myers right, like the minds
Speaker 7: that created the product. Yeah, and be the every man
Speaker 7: who's like, explain.
Speaker 5: This to me again, because if I don't understand it,
Speaker 5: I can't imagine a listener.
Speaker 29: And nowadays we got like Steven Tobinhnsleman doing the let's
Speaker 29: recreate it with three lights of coat.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, listen, nobody understands Steven cow not even Steven
Speaker 7: to Like that's not a thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that man is an alien. I love him. He
Speaker 2: needs a different realm from the rest of us. Realm, well,
Speaker 2: mental realm.
Speaker 7: I just clear my schedule to read his bog post
Speaker 7: only like three hundred pages something like that. It's like
Speaker 7: you just have to take a weekend and you got
Speaker 7: a summary.
Speaker 5: I just want a summary. Okay, better for our summary. Okay,
Speaker 5: thank you.
Speaker 29: So just feed it in the co pilot. You might
Speaker 29: have heard about it this week and ask it for
Speaker 29: a summary.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that no easy way to go about that, But yeah,
Speaker 7: I appreciate that.
Speaker 29: But there's been so many of those little things like I,
Speaker 29: you know, when you're not always in meetups, or you're
Speaker 29: in smaller towns, or you're not subscribing the magazines, are
Speaker 29: reading blogs, and it's like, here's your one form of
Speaker 29: media that you download on your little app and you
Speaker 29: listen to your friends talk about the latest stuff like
Speaker 29: this is where you learn the cutting edge.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 29: Yeah, and that's where I was in my foundational parts
Speaker 29: of my career.
Speaker 5: Now, I just got to tell you from my perspective,
Speaker 5: I started as a basic programmer, right.
Speaker 29: I started programming in second grade in the mid eighties. Okay,
Speaker 29: second grade in the eighties. So I've been doing this
Speaker 29: forty years.
Speaker 4: Great, and you've got a few years on me in
Speaker 4: terms of that.
Speaker 5: But but what I'm saying is being the host, of
Speaker 5: being an interested host on a podcast where I get
Speaker 5: to interview these guys and ask the dumb questions.
Speaker 4: I have learned so much.
Speaker 30: Is it like asking the dumb question?
Speaker 4: No? No, not at all, because a dumb question has
Speaker 4: just come to it.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's n'stural. It's just a gift.
Speaker 4: It's a gift to ask dumb.
Speaker 29: You are very gifted, sir, the gift of I say
Speaker 29: about all of that, very gifted.
Speaker 2: Yes I do.
Speaker 4: No, I have gift all over the floor.
Speaker 5: I am not embarrassed asked a question because first of all, hey,
Speaker 5: I'm going to get an answer that I understand.
Speaker 2: They're on your show.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And second of all, there's probably other people out
Speaker 5: there that don't have no idea that need to know, right,
Speaker 5: and so no I had, I never has offer.
Speaker 29: An amazing service like I love everything about everything you
Speaker 29: guys do, and uh to the next two thousand Thanks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Chris. That's a lot of obligation, man, I
Speaker 2: know I'm really stressed.
Speaker 4: Fresher.
Speaker 28: Hey, Colin Richard, it's Martin Woodwould here. I don't want
Speaker 28: to bug you anything, but just want to say thanks
Speaker 28: for everything you both do behind the scenes, raising people
Speaker 28: up across the community. As you both know, I've been
Speaker 28: a listener since back in the days where you it's
Speaker 28: a bit episodes on CDs. Yet somehow you both stay
Speaker 28: up to date with the latest technology and you help
Speaker 28: us ride along in your wake. Plus obviously Richard's geek outs,
Speaker 28: so like this degree level of information that's packaged up
Speaker 28: into sort of ted talk levels approachability. Love it anyway,
Speaker 28: The dotnet community owes you a ton and many of
Speaker 28: us owe you as individuals, so the help you've given
Speaker 28: us in our careers, so thank you.
Speaker 4: All Right, we have Oh my gosh, it's Jay. He's coming, Harris,
Speaker 4: he's coming to the Hasay.
Speaker 2: Oh you know, buddy, I'm doing a Ryan. How are
Speaker 2: both you? We're good, not bad. Good to see.
Speaker 31: You doing great. So I sort of have a question
Speaker 31: for both of you as well. Okay, okay, what is
Speaker 31: it like for both of you effectively being icons and
Speaker 31: celebrity in the industry and.
Speaker 2: Having kicked off started.
Speaker 31: Had such a major influence on so many of even
Speaker 31: the developers that are here in this room. I mean,
Speaker 31: for me personally, the two of you and this show
Speaker 31: has had a tremendous impact on even in my career.
Speaker 2: I remember, oh wow, back in.
Speaker 31: Back in the early two thousands, I was working for
Speaker 31: an insurance company in Syracuse, New York, an insurance company
Speaker 31: that was headquartered out of Manhattan.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 31: And of course two thousand and one hit and the
Speaker 31: insurance companies, especially the ones based out of New York,
Speaker 31: all got significantly impacted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 7: Slightly next week's show man, Like, I don't know how
Speaker 7: I'm going to talk about this.
Speaker 31: But yeah, at the end of two thousand and two,
Speaker 31: that company laid off something like twenty percent of its
Speaker 31: IT department, me included.
Speaker 2: And from the impact of that downturn.
Speaker 31: I was fifty weeks five zero weeks unemployed, trying to
Speaker 31: find a new gig, and so so not many years
Speaker 31: after that, I decided, you know, I'm never going to
Speaker 31: go through that again. I'm never going to have a
Speaker 31: time in my career where I'm unemployed that long, where
Speaker 31: I'm just another faceless person, another rank and file COG.
Speaker 2: And started listening.
Speaker 31: To a lot of these podcasts, especially yours, you know,
Speaker 31: and and from there I really improved my craft a lot.
Speaker 31: Over time, some others started influencing me to get involved
Speaker 31: in the community and in local dot net groups in Michigan.
Speaker 31: I was in Michigan at the time, and and being
Speaker 31: so involved in in the Midwest, in that early emerging
Speaker 31: Midwest community back then. The first conference I ever spoke
Speaker 31: at was in code Mash in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 31: which I believe is also your first Code Mash in Sanick,
Speaker 31: but a great at the same show, so much fun,
Speaker 31: that was the most fun, so much fun, and for
Speaker 31: me that was like it of almost a coming of
Speaker 31: age moment for me because here I am speaking at
Speaker 31: my first conference and here are the two of you
Speaker 31: icons in the industry already by that point.
Speaker 4: Stop with that, just a couple of dudes. I do
Speaker 4: not feel like my wife doesn't say what with.
Speaker 2: The Carl Franklin like for breakfast?
Speaker 4: That does not happen in my life.
Speaker 2: So I do not feel like.
Speaker 31: The years I've known you, now I know that you're
Speaker 31: just two more guys that put your pants on one
Speaker 31: leg and a time.
Speaker 2: Just like I do.
Speaker 7: We make the automatic pants thing, but that's I'm that
Speaker 7: guy how we make hit records, right.
Speaker 32: H.
Speaker 7: I get emails about from people struggling in their careers,
Speaker 7: and you try to answer them meaningfully because it's clearly
Speaker 7: important to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel that way. That's Sundays for me.
Speaker 7: I uh, I think a lot about are we helping
Speaker 7: people when they need help, especially the ones that are employed.
Speaker 7: Like it's a tough time right now, and so you know,
Speaker 7: the content shape concerned about that. Most of the time
Speaker 7: when you're at a conference, you're hanging around with folks
Speaker 7: who know you, and that's all well and fine. Once
Speaker 7: in a while, you get someone who's trapped in the
Speaker 7: mythology and we're just going to try and get a
Speaker 7: picture with you, and they're shaking, and that's odd, but
Speaker 7: you do your best to be kind, right, and you know,
Speaker 7: if they want to know you better, they will, like
Speaker 7: you'll figure that out.
Speaker 2: It happens all the time. But sometimes that doesn't.
Speaker 4: Most of these people just lacked.
Speaker 5: Experience in the confidence, you know, seek them a shot
Speaker 5: of confidence.
Speaker 2: You know, you can do this. You were great about this.
Speaker 2: One of my neighbors.
Speaker 7: You were the young guy that lived down there that
Speaker 7: I'd known his entire life, and then he found the podcast. Also,
Speaker 7: you can't talk to us anymore, yeah, fifteen right, And
Speaker 7: his reaction was, let's send him one of every piece
Speaker 7: of swag, like just get them all the things, like
Speaker 7: just sort of make it a little silly, okay, right,
Speaker 7: And it was effective, Like it was just hot, try
Speaker 7: and break the mythology up a bit, because in the end,
Speaker 7: you're just trying to make a thing right, right and
Speaker 7: help people wherever you can, right.
Speaker 2: There's nothing more magical than that.
Speaker 4: But it's really good to hear we helped you.
Speaker 31: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate everything that both of you for
Speaker 31: a long time.
Speaker 2: Jay, You've been through some stuff.
Speaker 5: It's like you've always thought about you through all of that,
Speaker 5: and you made good things along the way.
Speaker 2: Friend, like it's awesome. Yeah, thank you, Yeah, thank you. Good.
Speaker 31: I enjoy being a part of it, and certainly enjoy
Speaker 31: having come to known.
Speaker 2: Both of you over these years as well. Thanks. I
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Excellent, well, thank you, awesome, Thanks very much.
Speaker 22: Hi.
Speaker 12: This is phill Hack and I've been a long time
Speaker 12: listener to dot net Rock. So I can't tell you
Speaker 12: how long did I work on the hite kk problem
Speaker 12: in the late nineties. I sure did. I was working
Speaker 12: with the ASP Classic AFP before the dot net Moniker.
Speaker 12: I think back then your podcast was just called Rocks.
Speaker 12: And how's your podcast affected my career? It's been great.
Speaker 12: I think I've been on it multiple times. I'm still
Speaker 12: waiting for my five timer jacket, but it's been a
Speaker 12: great way to promote the products that I've worked on,
Speaker 12: the frameworks and all that, and to uh, you know,
Speaker 12: need a lot of really great other other speakers and
Speaker 12: technologists and whatnot. So yeah, thank you, and keep going.
Speaker 2: Joe Pennie, you can.
Speaker 4: We talk all the top.
Speaker 2: We don't get to see each other.
Speaker 30: Flash and flash, And I wore my Space shirt for you.
Speaker 7: I love that I've got that shirt. This is a
Speaker 7: This is Hank Green's Galilean Moon.
Speaker 2: It brought mine, all right.
Speaker 5: Look you mind you when you said Space, I was
Speaker 5: actually thinking it was a grateful Dead show because it
Speaker 5: kind of does look.
Speaker 4: Like kind of level ties.
Speaker 2: You must be high to wear this shirt.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Galiley and moonshirt talking Space. Man, that's so cool.
Speaker 2: What's new, Joe? Yeah? What's you working on? Oh man?
Speaker 33: What's not new? I'm making Windows apps. I made a
Speaker 33: new Windows app a week ago. It's called Trouser. Trouser Trouser.
Speaker 2: You put on your pants with both legs the same time.
Speaker 2: Is that what it done?
Speaker 33: That's no, it's a it's a tray browser, so you
Speaker 33: you have a little mini browser in your tray if
Speaker 33: you ever want to like pop up a website real
Speaker 33: quick while your your build is compiling. I know Carl's
Speaker 33: got a pretty quick computer, so it probably doesn't wait
Speaker 33: very long.
Speaker 2: What is this build compiling? Yeah?
Speaker 30: Oh sorry?
Speaker 33: When when opus is thinking, you know, when it's flipperty.
Speaker 2: Somebody that's build new compile ways.
Speaker 30: Exactly exactly right.
Speaker 33: Can you run all tests and fix any errors when
Speaker 33: it's doing that step? Yeah, yeah, that's when I pop
Speaker 33: up the trouser and sits there for a little bit
Speaker 33: and I'm like okay, okay, and then I dump.
Speaker 30: Yeah that's one thing. Well we'll see.
Speaker 33: I'm only playing games on it, but okay, Like you know,
Speaker 33: they there's like a web version of the classic Windows
Speaker 33: games mind Sweeper. Yeah, there's very faithful reproductions that you
Speaker 33: could get online.
Speaker 7: Said all those games were about teaching people how to
Speaker 7: use a mouse, right, yeah, like at they were all
Speaker 7: three one games and that was like lots of people
Speaker 7: who learned to use a mouse, So let's give them
Speaker 7: games where they need to learning to use the mouse.
Speaker 33: Yeah, And it's uh like right click, left click, you
Speaker 33: know the ones to two is the puzzles.
Speaker 30: It's great, it's great. Yeah, So that's what's new with me.
Speaker 4: That's not the only thing that's come on.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 33: Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is I didn't bring a musical instrument, but.
Speaker 2: Still your time.
Speaker 30: So, uh, what's.
Speaker 33: The last Windows app that you played around with that
Speaker 33: you were like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 30: Wrote Yeah, what's the last one you wrote?
Speaker 4: I mean I wow.
Speaker 5: Wow, yeah, okay, well, no, that's not a Windows app.
Speaker 7: Most of the stuff I'm making right now is literally
Speaker 7: command line command line as Yeah, I guess it is
Speaker 7: norminally Windows. I'm not just using the goo anymore. Like,
Speaker 7: when's the last time I needed to make a guy?
Speaker 2: Oh it's been a while?
Speaker 33: Sure, sure, sure, sure, yeah, what's the guy? I guess
Speaker 33: that's one is cli? Sure, that's a Windows that's fair.
Speaker 5: And then's a lot of I do a lot of
Speaker 5: console apps, but not so many Windows apps anymore.
Speaker 2: Uh, let's see Windows app.
Speaker 5: Geez, I can't remember, but I mean I use Windows
Speaker 5: apps all the time.
Speaker 2: I use audio digital audio.
Speaker 5: Workstations like Fender Studio Pro. I use obviously, Visual Studio
Speaker 5: I use all the time. There's a couple other ones
Speaker 5: that are more specialized.
Speaker 7: But I literally tinkered with a piece of code before
Speaker 7: I came down here. And it's to remotely mute my
Speaker 7: wife's machine. She loves on Spotify and then leaving, and
Speaker 7: I'm not going to the other room to turn that off.
Speaker 7: So I've got a script to that machine and mutes that.
Speaker 5: This is the benefit to being a programmer year fifty.
Speaker 30: I like that.
Speaker 2: All I want is some quiet? Can I get some quiet?
Speaker 30: Is that open source? You gotta open source?
Speaker 2: Actually, sha, you share that one out.
Speaker 33: It's good to be popular. Yeah, that would work. That
Speaker 33: would work. I guess that counts as a Windows app.
Speaker 33: I mean, why not.
Speaker 2: So you've been on the show and how many times
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 30: Know, four times?
Speaker 33: Yeah, talking Windows stuff local AI WPS.
Speaker 4: Obviously been listening for a long time. You've been listening to.
Speaker 30: The Oh, yeah, for a long time. I don't see.
Speaker 33: This is where I'm like, oh, it's been so long,
Speaker 33: ten years.
Speaker 2: It's a long time.
Speaker 30: Yeah, it's a long time for me.
Speaker 33: I'm on the younger side of things looking around here,
Speaker 33: which is uh, you know, good and bad?
Speaker 30: You know, why not? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So I wish I was as young as you exactly.
Speaker 30: Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take up.
Speaker 33: My doctor says I shouldn't get any older. So I'm
Speaker 33: doing all right, good everything. I can. You know how
Speaker 33: it goes to stay as young as I can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't stay young, but I could stay childish.
Speaker 2: I know how to do that.
Speaker 30: That's got to help. That's got to do something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so quick, real quick, what are you working on
Speaker 5: now that we do another show, brother, Yeah, when do we.
Speaker 12: Get on show?
Speaker 33: I don't know if I can say what I'm doing
Speaker 33: on I don't want to get attacked by all these
Speaker 33: folks here. I'm building a vibe coding a Ruby on
Speaker 33: rails app. Oh, I know, I know it's not done that.
Speaker 30: I know old school.
Speaker 33: It's it's crazy how well, because they were so focused
Speaker 33: on like naming things, yeah, and calling things is the
Speaker 33: right name, and it's all very like language driven.
Speaker 7: And the Ruby rail set is huge, Like I think
Speaker 7: that's it import Why do we see these models so
Speaker 7: good at Python? Yeah, these older languages have such a
Speaker 7: body of work that the tools are well trained.
Speaker 33: And it's huge apps that are open source, so it
Speaker 33: does a really good job of figuring out how to
Speaker 33: do it. But I will say, I don't write any Ruby.
Speaker 33: I don't want to write any Ruby. I don't like
Speaker 33: looking at it. It's fine, but I'm living done that
Speaker 33: every day. But yeah, so I'm trying to the app
Speaker 33: I'm trying to build is going to be more of
Speaker 33: like a product style thing. So the thing the thought
Speaker 33: process is AI build stuff so fast that you got
Speaker 33: to make sure you know what you're building.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and why You're exactly right. Speed of code is
Speaker 7: no longer the issue. Right, speed of plan is.
Speaker 33: The exactly So I'm trying to make some tools to
Speaker 33: be able to story map and say like, okay, I
Speaker 33: need to get these ideas out of my head like
Speaker 33: in a map. Ye, put them in cards and order
Speaker 33: them and maybe.
Speaker 7: You don't have to just write it down in the
Speaker 7: notebook and let it go. Now, now you can feed
Speaker 7: it to a machine to get some prototypes, well, you know,
Speaker 7: and and see if it should go further.
Speaker 33: It does make sense to you, like before that even
Speaker 33: I made it. I made a skill for this, so
Speaker 33: I don't know I made a skill for the ski.
Speaker 20: Yeah.
Speaker 33: So it's my app is called product map. Product maps
Speaker 33: like product product, you know, like rubber ducking. You know,
Speaker 33: you talk to the rubber duck. And so there's a skill.
Speaker 33: So I can tell the agent to hey, here's this skill,
Speaker 33: get in here, get in my plan with me, read
Speaker 33: it and start figuring out like hey, where are the gaps?
Speaker 33: Like what doesn't make sense? Because it's so easy to
Speaker 33: write so code and then you'd be like you type
Speaker 33: something to a you know, agent, and it sits there
Speaker 33: and it spins and it spins and you spend a
Speaker 33: lot of bit and you have this whole app and
Speaker 33: then it's like, oh, I didn't understand your first prompt,
Speaker 33: you know, like there's a misunderstanding from the very beginning. Yeah,
Speaker 33: at an enterprise, that's like an expensive thing. But as
Speaker 33: individuals we could just make software so fast now, so
Speaker 33: I wanted to make a tool to slow myself down
Speaker 33: and help myself. So it's like, okay, now we know
Speaker 33: we're doing unleash the hounds right.
Speaker 7: Smart duck thing. It's not enough to talk to the duck.
Speaker 7: You got to talk to the duck the right way.
Speaker 30: A professional duck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's serious.
Speaker 30: Serious duck. So that's what I've been working on. Yeah,
Speaker 30: but very cool.
Speaker 2: Let me know when it's time for show. Yeah, thanks
Speaker 2: for all right.
Speaker 34: Hey friends, it's Scott Hanselman. I started my podcast, hansel
Speaker 34: Minutes because I was teasing Carl Franklin about podcasting and
Speaker 34: I said podcasting sucks, and he said, well, you think
Speaker 34: it's so easy, you should try it yourself. So then
Speaker 34: January eleventh, two thousand and six, I started episode one
Speaker 34: of hansel Minutes and it's come up on one thousand
Speaker 34: and thirty eight. Episodes, which is not two thousand. Carl's
Speaker 34: gotta do two thousand. I'm going to catch up. That's
Speaker 34: a whole thing now. But yeah, I've been listening to
Speaker 34: dot net rock since the beginning in Carl and Richard
Speaker 34: are burned into my brain. We've been listening so long.
Speaker 34: Congratulations on two thousand episodisodes. And uh, yeah, I did
Speaker 34: work on the Y two K problem. I was in
Speaker 34: a bank, and I was in a bank in New
Speaker 34: Orleans trying to keep the bank online. As we jumped
Speaker 34: over to the year two thousand.
Speaker 2: And it looks like Ralph is up with his keyboard.
Speaker 2: Ralph coming up here.
Speaker 35: We got more last one going on over here. So
Speaker 35: here's the thing for me that net rocks. There was
Speaker 35: a music component, yeah, always, you know, so like, where
Speaker 35: is it now? The music is just us, We're you
Speaker 35: guys are the music right now? Everyone's just talking, right.
Speaker 35: I even just just in case, I brought my portable.
Speaker 35: I'm like, maybe i'll plug in, I'll jam with Carl.
Speaker 4: So jam with Carl.
Speaker 5: Say that, because yeah, the first time I met you
Speaker 5: was at a jam.
Speaker 2: The first time I met you was at a jam
Speaker 2: session at a tech end. I think it was a
Speaker 2: deckhead tech ad Orlando tech ed Atlanta.
Speaker 35: In ninety eight New Orleans, and I remember it was
Speaker 35: a very a bit of a sad tech aad because
Speaker 35: they had all these horns over there. It's like they
Speaker 35: just put instruments just for the sake of it, and
Speaker 35: it's like, no one's playing the horns. Well, nobody wants
Speaker 35: to put their mouths on these things, right.
Speaker 4: And by the way, Ralph is a great.
Speaker 5: Keyboard player, great piano player. He's not just like a
Speaker 5: dinky dinky dink.
Speaker 2: He's a pro. So it was a pleasure to play
Speaker 2: with Rob.
Speaker 35: I'm pro is so far that I'm not making Mick
Speaker 35: Jagger money, so i still have a day job, you know.
Speaker 2: So that's okay.
Speaker 11: Enough speaking of the Mick Jagger money.
Speaker 35: But if you remember, and I remember, because Carl was
Speaker 35: like one of my best guests. I was trying to
Speaker 35: host it, keep it alive, and Kyl would show up
Speaker 35: every night and he'd play, and you're a trooper, you'd
Speaker 35: play whatever the heck people asked for. Oh, they're playing
Speaker 35: this song and they're like, the bass player has no
Speaker 35: idea what he's doing.
Speaker 6: Carl's playing along with it.
Speaker 2: To the bass player. So bass player count as sad.
Speaker 35: You realize that when you're leading an improv band, you know,
Speaker 35: that's how you learn best prompting skills. Yeah, there's no
Speaker 35: coincidence behind it. So in nineteen ninety seven, Microsoft did
Speaker 35: a good thing.
Speaker 2: All of a.
Speaker 35: Sudden, they gave it was a professional guy to run
Speaker 35: the show, a professional lead.
Speaker 11: Because I company asked me, Ralph, would you like to
Speaker 11: lead it?
Speaker 35: I'm like, yeah, but unless you're paying me Mick Jaggert money,
Speaker 35: I can't do that. So they got a guy who
Speaker 35: was an actual musician, Deems Deems take a walk. He
Speaker 35: brought him in. He got playing, and I remember because
Speaker 35: I went that night. It was at the Bonaventure on
Speaker 35: Top and you.
Speaker 2: Were up there and you were ecstatic.
Speaker 11: This guy was like it was like a kid in
Speaker 11: the candy store. I remember your face. You were so bright.
Speaker 35: You were like yeah wow, and like I break a
Speaker 35: string and the guy's.
Speaker 4: Like yeah, it's like man, it's like a guitar.
Speaker 5: Take it just hands you another guitars like ready to go.
Speaker 2: It's like whoa.
Speaker 11: And I swear you were just like so into it.
Speaker 2: I had so much fun sessions.
Speaker 35: Whatever that did, I think it inspired you more because
Speaker 35: you ended up coming up with some music you gave me.
Speaker 35: I remember you gave me a copy of your album
Speaker 35: back in the day. You have like a CD.
Speaker 11: Back then we gave each other CDs. Is listen to
Speaker 11: my CD?
Speaker 4: You have that over here, which now give somebody a CD.
Speaker 2: They're like, what is that.
Speaker 35: Going to do CD? Here's a by CD. Was great?
Speaker 35: That was the inspiration. And I remember you did the
Speaker 35: podcast you were right, one of the very first few ones.
Speaker 35: It inspired me later on to do one also a
Speaker 35: cloud talk show one We're not as good as yours.
Speaker 35: But the key though was sharing with the community. This
Speaker 35: is the biggest impact that I've seen you guys do.
Speaker 35: And when Rocky and all the rest talk about this,
Speaker 35: they're not kidding, right. It's like there's people that have
Speaker 35: not even heard, we haven't even heard from that have
Speaker 35: been inspired. For every one person that you hear being
Speaker 35: inspired today, multiply that by ten, maybe ten thousand. I'm
Speaker 35: pretty sure you guys are out there. So we're so
Speaker 35: we're so sad there's no music here, but I'm so
Speaker 35: happy you guys are still doing.
Speaker 11: This and I look forward to two thousand more shows.
Speaker 2: All right, give us a little number here. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I gotta hold on to the micro and a keyboard here.
Speaker 2: All right, here we go. It's like, uh ll among
Speaker 2: on this morning.
Speaker 22: Then I got.
Speaker 2: Myself the fel myself.
Speaker 5: The future is uncertain then and it's always new. Then
Speaker 5: baby then roll then roll baby and roumble.
Speaker 36: Oh not long?
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 5: Yeah that's pretty good.
Speaker 4: And that's only like what in octave and a half too?
Speaker 11: I was well sor I just played it and see oops.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, but the keyboards like three octave.
Speaker 2: Or something right one two? Yeah, that's difficult, and you
Speaker 2: pulled it off. Yeah, I know you never drap. That
Speaker 2: was awesome.
Speaker 37: I'm sewn wilderm. I've been listening to the podcast since
Speaker 37: the early days. I think it was the early two thousands. Actually,
Speaker 37: I did work for a y two K company. Actually
Speaker 37: they did s n MP audits to find y two
Speaker 37: k problems. As soon as two thousand world around, they
Speaker 37: were out of business and I was out of a job,
Speaker 37: go figure. Early on, I listened to dot net Rocks
Speaker 37: to hear about what was new in dot net, because
Speaker 37: those were the early days of one O Beana and
Speaker 37: eventually one one over the years, I've been invited on
Speaker 37: the podcast seventeen times. Carl and Richard have been incredibly
Speaker 37: kind and generous with their time, and it's helped my
Speaker 37: career tremendously. Twenty years on, it's still worth listening to
Speaker 37: every episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's.
Speaker 22: Go.
Speaker 38: We have Dan Schroeder, Dan a man, don't I don't
Speaker 38: know how I'm gonna follow that.
Speaker 6: That was that was pretty amazing.
Speaker 4: And we want more people too, So line up.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 38: No, I just wanted to say I've been I know
Speaker 38: a lot of people have listened to your podcast for
Speaker 38: twenty plus years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 38: I didn't start listening to any podcasts until about three
Speaker 38: years ago, all right, but now your guys' podcast is
Speaker 38: part of my weekly routine along with the Azure and
Speaker 38: DevOps podcast.
Speaker 20: Nice.
Speaker 4: So I really appreciate it.
Speaker 38: And I could, Uh, I just want to say, like,
Speaker 38: even like I'm sure younger kids are, like, you've been
Speaker 38: doing it so long and you like, you know so.
Speaker 6: Many people in the community.
Speaker 38: Yeah, and like in it would be maybe just easy
Speaker 38: to see how you know, how you've affected those people.
Speaker 38: But I just want to let you know you affect
Speaker 38: a lot of younger people just coming into the dot net.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, ya, I mean right now, Well, Dan,
Speaker 2: how old are you? If you don't mind me.
Speaker 38: Asking, I'm older than I would like. I'm forty two,
Speaker 38: all right, so you're not young.
Speaker 6: I'm not young.
Speaker 2: Now this face.
Speaker 38: Yeah, but I got into programming in two thousand and
Speaker 38: two thousand and one, so just after the y two
Speaker 38: K stuff, So I wasn't part of it. I heard
Speaker 38: about it, sure, and I've been doing dot net stuff
Speaker 38: since two thousand and nine.
Speaker 6: But to give the young.
Speaker 5: Young programmers look at you like an old fart that
Speaker 5: is yet watch.
Speaker 2: With the you know, the latest and greatest.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 38: And even though like I'm like, I'm not young or old,
Speaker 38: I guess I don't know. I love that you guys
Speaker 38: share the history because you have been around a lot
Speaker 38: longer than me. You've been around a lot longer than
Speaker 38: a lot of people doing dot net. Yeah, and I
Speaker 38: just love that you share the history of you know,
Speaker 38: stuff that's happened back in the day, how the cycles repeat,
Speaker 38: how you see the same sort of thing, and just
Speaker 38: how the technology has evolved.
Speaker 6: Sharing those stories. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 38: But uh, my question for you was, you guys have
Speaker 38: been building dot net stuff for a long long time.
Speaker 6: What's your favorite thing that you've built for.
Speaker 38: Like a personal like a person, something like a side
Speaker 38: project or something at home. Is do you have a
Speaker 38: favorite thing that you like just loved You had a
Speaker 38: passion project or an automation, or it's something a video game.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I do, and I'll try to keep it short, but
Speaker 5: I have a baby grand piano that has MIDI built
Speaker 5: into it, so that means it has a medi input
Speaker 5: and a MIDI output, and it had there's a selenoid,
Speaker 5: you know, that is an attack or like something that
Speaker 5: pops up under every key and it responds to MIDI
Speaker 5: on and off notes, and it responds to velocity.
Speaker 2: So if you.
Speaker 5: Connect a little keyboard and you play a soft note,
Speaker 5: it plays soft, and you play a hard note, it
Speaker 5: plays hard.
Speaker 2: Right. It really does reproduce.
Speaker 5: And so this is a great piano and I always
Speaker 5: wanted it because I like recording in an open space
Speaker 5: where the piano and the drums are in the same room,
Speaker 5: the guitar players are in the same room with their
Speaker 5: answer in a different room.
Speaker 2: The bass goes direct right.
Speaker 5: But I could record jazz this way and actually have
Speaker 5: all the musicians in the same room with me the engineer.
Speaker 5: I don't like this whole wall off the engineer in
Speaker 5: a little lab where they're like, you're like a lab
Speaker 5: rat out there trying to player, and I hate that.
Speaker 5: I hated it as a musician, I hate it as
Speaker 5: an engineer. So that's leading up to this story. So basically,
Speaker 5: the all the goal was for me with this midipiano,
Speaker 5: and I only got it to work once, is that
Speaker 5: I want the piano player to play on the piano
Speaker 5: and I'll capture the MIDI file right, but no sound.
Speaker 4: No sound, I'll just trigger a keyboard sound or they
Speaker 4: could play on a mini keyboard.
Speaker 5: But I record the met and then we added to MIDI,
Speaker 5: take out the errors, maybe quantize it a little bit,
Speaker 5: move stuff around if it's later early, and then play
Speaker 5: it back through the piano later time, or report it
Speaker 5: and then use that audio track in place of the
Speaker 5: mini track in the original mix.
Speaker 4: So I get isolation. Now here's the problem.
Speaker 5: My piano didn't like the latest version or the current
Speaker 5: version or the current whatever it was of the software
Speaker 5: that I was using, and so when I recorded MIDI
Speaker 5: and tried to play it back through the piano. The
Speaker 5: pedal was sticking. It wasn't the pedal wasn't responding correctly.
Speaker 5: And when I looked at the output because I had
Speaker 5: a scope, I had a miniscope, it was actually not
Speaker 5: sending the note off commands at the right time when
Speaker 5: you lifted up the pedal, like the pedal commands were.
Speaker 2: Not working correctly.
Speaker 5: So I literally vibe coded my way around it with
Speaker 5: an app that takes the and I learned that it
Speaker 5: basically was the AWE that was the problem and they
Speaker 5: couldn't reproduce it.
Speaker 4: But if I told I basically.
Speaker 5: Told AI to create a program that plays a MIDI file,
Speaker 5: and I took the MIDI file and played it back.
Speaker 5: It was fine. So then I asked it to create
Speaker 5: a program that plays back the MIDI file and records
Speaker 5: an audio file at the same time and keeps them
Speaker 5: in sync.
Speaker 2: So it's literally a console.
Speaker 5: App that it's like book and all the you know,
Speaker 5: the defaults are it boom boom boom, boom boom go,
Speaker 5: and it plays the midifile and records it and I
Speaker 5: got a perfect audio track and it works.
Speaker 2: And that to me was like, I don't know why it.
Speaker 5: Didn't work, but I understood the circumstances under which it failed,
Speaker 5: and I worked around those circumstances and I got something
Speaker 5: that works, and I use it with clients and they
Speaker 5: love it.
Speaker 38: Oh that's awesome. I should have known yours would be
Speaker 38: something music related.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: My step saw homosists these days, which means I write
Speaker 7: more Python that I care to admit. Granted, I don't
Speaker 7: want to admit to any Python, but you know that's
Speaker 7: the way that goes.
Speaker 2: Sometimes.
Speaker 38: I'm in the same boat there. I've played with Python
Speaker 38: a little bit, but I've shied away from it.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what my pie is or why
Speaker 2: I want it.
Speaker 38: Awesome, Thank you very much, guys. Yeah, great, two thousand episodes.
Speaker 2: I hope you have.
Speaker 6: There's many more to come, for sure, I'm sure they
Speaker 6: will be.
Speaker 39: I've been listening to dot net Rocks for more than
Speaker 39: a decade, listening to experts from all over the world
Speaker 39: covering so much tech it felt like community personally. Having
Speaker 39: had the pleasure of appearing several times, it's just so
Speaker 39: much fun talking to Colnum Richard that sharing knowledge, thoughts,
Speaker 39: and ideas just flows naturally. It's to the next two
Speaker 39: thousand episodes. Well done you two.
Speaker 36: All right, we got some more peeps money Kevin Boss
Speaker 36: Uh yeah, first time caller, longtime listener.
Speaker 2: Hi Kevin, how you doing so?
Speaker 11: First of all, I just want to thank you guys.
Speaker 36: I mean, I think it's so fully clear from everybody
Speaker 36: in this room how big of an impact you guys
Speaker 36: have had over all of these shows, for everything that
Speaker 36: you've done. I know colleagues, friends listen to you guys constantly,
Speaker 36: and it definitely impacts quite a few people. I am
Speaker 36: not quite old enough to need to take my shoes
Speaker 36: off to count my gray hairs. Nice, but I as
Speaker 36: somebody who kind of has that older school, more journeymanti
Speaker 36: mentality for training up younger engineers. Yeah, what would you
Speaker 36: guys say for people who are wanting to help train
Speaker 36: those younger engineers coming up? Especially with AI, it feels
Speaker 36: like that gap is getting bigger and.
Speaker 2: Instinct right now.
Speaker 7: It says that juniors have no role, which I think
Speaker 7: is a terrible mistake. Also interact, because I would argue
Speaker 7: the juniors have less to unlearned right that we are
Speaker 7: being retooled, and I definitely see folks that have more
Speaker 7: experience who've been retooled before going oh we're retooling again
Speaker 7: and either exiting like I'm not doing it again, or
Speaker 7: just like, let's get to work. I feel for the
Speaker 7: guys in the middle who have been on the same
Speaker 7: stack for a decade or two and now are like,
Speaker 7: you want.
Speaker 2: Me to what to what?
Speaker 7: In some ways, the juniors have got it better. You're
Speaker 7: not deeply committed to what we've done so far. In fact,
Speaker 7: I've talked to lots of juniors have been fighting tooth
Speaker 7: and nail against what they're being told to do, right
Speaker 7: because often educators included, are like, hey, I suffer for this.
Speaker 7: You have to suffer too, And it's like it's just
Speaker 7: not necessary.
Speaker 4: It's always been that way too.
Speaker 2: It's always been wrong.
Speaker 5: The Sea developers look down at the quick basic developers,
Speaker 5: and then the quick base developers became visual debase of developers.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you're a Sea developers.
Speaker 7: There's nothing better you can do for a junior, that is, say,
Speaker 7: you should approach this the newest way you can because
Speaker 7: it's going to be the most valuable thing that's out there.
Speaker 2: Take these tools out for a spin.
Speaker 5: If there's anything I can give you as an experienced
Speaker 5: person is here are the fundamentals that are gonna matter. Yes,
Speaker 5: how are you going to test it? How are you
Speaker 5: going to deploy it? How are you going to know
Speaker 5: when it's wrong? How are you going to go back
Speaker 5: when it's wrong? Like that unsexy responsible stuff. That's what
Speaker 5: they have a tough time thinking about that we do
Speaker 5: every day. I don't think the answer is a degree
Speaker 5: in computer science, but I think the answer lies in
Speaker 5: for juniors, like Richard said, learning the fundamentals of software.
Speaker 2: Stacks and queues and it just basic stuff.
Speaker 5: Right that everybody needs to use. And whether you your
Speaker 5: AI creates that, you need to read it or whatever
Speaker 5: it is, you know, learn link just enough, just enough
Speaker 5: to understand it, and that way you'll know how to
Speaker 5: approach a problem and you'll know what you know when
Speaker 5: your AI spits out some code, what it's actually doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's perfect.
Speaker 36: I was gonna say, I feel like I've been seeing
Speaker 36: those extremes, right if some people going all in on,
Speaker 36: you know, we'll just vibe code our whole way through,
Speaker 36: which is fine to a point. You know, if it's
Speaker 36: your own simple home automation system, yeah, low risk, no.
Speaker 7: Problem somebody else, But fundamentals.
Speaker 2: And here's the problem too.
Speaker 5: If they don't understand those things, the AI might understand
Speaker 5: more than they do right, and spit out something that's
Speaker 5: actually correct, and they look at and they don't understand
Speaker 5: it and say no, no, no, that's all wrong because they.
Speaker 2: Don't understand it right.
Speaker 4: Instead of saying, hey, explain to me what this does.
Speaker 5: Comment the code every line so that I can understand it.
Speaker 5: Write a paragraph of comments so I.
Speaker 1: Can understand it.
Speaker 5: You know, that's what they shouldn't do, and and that
Speaker 5: gives the AI a chance to think, oh, maybe I.
Speaker 2: Didn't do this right, and therefore it'll try another pass. Yeah.
Speaker 36: I think that's what we've been pushing our juniors towards.
Speaker 36: It's a lot more of trying to leverage the AI
Speaker 36: as a learning tool absolutely and just you know, vibe
Speaker 36: code and send it absolutely perfect.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 36: I want to thank you guys for just a massive
Speaker 36: impact that you've had, especially younger engineers like myself.
Speaker 2: And how old are you?
Speaker 6: I'm only thirty.
Speaker 2: Eight, only thirty eight?
Speaker 4: Come on, I want some twenty four year olds in here, man.
Speaker 2: I'm sure we've got some old MVPs. Yeah, think about
Speaker 2: where we are. It's kind of a filter set. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, congratulations to you, and I'm very much appreciate you
Speaker 5: guys to stick around.
Speaker 18: Thank you, two thousand freaking episodes. What an achievement. Hi,
Speaker 18: every run. Egil Henson here. I've been listening to Dot
Speaker 18: Net Rock for basically my entire career back in the
Speaker 18: early two thousands. The commute to work was always better
Speaker 18: when the new episode had landed in the feed overnight.
Speaker 18: The show kept me up to date on what was
Speaker 18: happening across the dot need ecosystem and gave me deep
Speaker 18: insights from knowledgeable and interesting guests, and of course the
Speaker 18: host were pretty good too. Listening to Carlin Richards has
Speaker 18: always felt a bit like catching up with old friends. Familiar, comfortable,
Speaker 18: and always welcome. So congratulations on the two thousand episodes,
Speaker 18: and thank you for all the conversations, insights and inspiration
Speaker 18: all of the years.
Speaker 7: Jeff Jeff were wrapping up Brothers Getting to be a
Speaker 7: long show. Give us a story?
Speaker 2: Did you want to say something?
Speaker 5: Hold on, Mike bank Bankovich wants to say something awesome.
Speaker 2: I'll keep it short.
Speaker 3: I just want to say thank you because my entire
Speaker 3: career grew up with you. Guys from early on to.
Speaker 2: Part of our conversation for a long time friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've learned so much from both of you.
Speaker 3: And You've been encouragers, you've been organizers, You've lifted people up,
Speaker 3: You've you've like pulled them up, You've you've taught people,
Speaker 3: You've blessed so many lives, and so that can't be understated.
Speaker 3: I just wanted to say thank you.
Speaker 2: That's very kind.
Speaker 9: You very kind, Jeff, thank you, Hey, Carl, Hey, Richard, Hey,
Speaker 9: all the other amazing people that make dot net rocks happening.
Speaker 9: Gerald here, I just wanted to give you a huge
Speaker 9: congrats for two thousand episodes off dot net rocks.
Speaker 8: That's really, really amazing.
Speaker 9: I think you have been podcasting before the word podcast
Speaker 9: was even a thing. I tried my own podcast and
Speaker 9: I think I didn't even make it to one hundred episodes,
Speaker 9: So big respect for what you were doing here. With that,
Speaker 9: you have really become a staple in the donet community,
Speaker 9: and I hope I look forward to the next two
Speaker 9: thousand episodes. Keep it up, friends, Really amazing work.
Speaker 2: Bank.
Speaker 4: Are you guys doing all right?
Speaker 15: Man?
Speaker 40: You gotta love the you, gotta love the you gotta
Speaker 40: love it.
Speaker 2: It's pretty pretty amazing.
Speaker 40: You guys have been doing this for longer than I've
Speaker 40: been an evangelist, and it's it's it's amazing the impact
Speaker 40: you guys have had, and it is so much fun
Speaker 40: to see and watch all that stuff. But I remember
Speaker 40: during COVID you had come back or you were doing
Speaker 40: a road show.
Speaker 2: And the Blazer, and.
Speaker 40: Yeah, I just remember going, Okay, well, let's keep praying
Speaker 40: for the right things.
Speaker 2: Right COVID by himself in a hotel room in Portland.
Speaker 2: I remember talking to you, going go home. I know
Speaker 2: what are you doing?
Speaker 5: So I wanted to quarantine. But yeah, I was doing
Speaker 5: the Blazer road show for the Express. We're on the
Speaker 5: West Coast. We did the East coast, around the West coast,
Speaker 5: I caught COVID. Everybody caught COVID and we had to
Speaker 5: stop the tour.
Speaker 40: And it was and it was just you know, there's
Speaker 40: there's so many things that changed during COVID.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh yeah.
Speaker 40: My daughter, who is a guide a degree as an
Speaker 40: elementary education teacher. God bless the teachers, right, Yeah, decided
Speaker 40: she didn't like kids and wanted to do code, so
Speaker 40: she went back and got a coding certificate right during COVID.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 40: And you know it's just the whole switch of diving
Speaker 40: into that and it's like okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah that was the time.
Speaker 40: Yeah time, crazy times.
Speaker 2: But I as feel lucky that I caught COVID at
Speaker 2: the very beginning of it. Yeah to be said about that,
Speaker 2: and you survived it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I holed up in this hotel in Portland, and thankfully
Speaker 5: Devik's asked my sponsor, who sponsored the tour, put me
Speaker 5: up there. I said, I don't want to go home
Speaker 5: until I'm done with this. I don't want to kill anybody,
Speaker 5: you know, And they're like, yeah, you should stay butt.
Speaker 4: But I remember walking over to you know, Whole Foods.
Speaker 5: And getting a steak and then cast iron pan because
Speaker 5: I didn't have anything to cook with.
Speaker 2: And I was in a hotel room where they had
Speaker 2: a little kitchenette.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm used to a hood and a
Speaker 5: vent fan at a Rome. I turned the fan on,
Speaker 5: I put the thing that sizzle the steaks. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: fucking room fills up with smoke, fire alarm goes off.
Speaker 5: The manager comes in, They're like, the fire department comes in.
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm just a cook.
Speaker 2: A steak.
Speaker 40: You do that in a hotel and it's like, okay,
Speaker 40: now what yeah trauma.
Speaker 5: That was the only and we did some shows while
Speaker 5: I was in that and I could barely speak tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 40: Well, congratulations on two thousand.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 40: That is amazing and uh, good to see you guys.
Speaker 2: Good to see you too much.
Speaker 5: I need to hang out, we do sure, absolutely, yeah, cheers, well, buddy, Yeah,
Speaker 5: that's a show and there is a show, a long
Speaker 5: one for for sure.
Speaker 2: And we'd like to thank well.
Speaker 5: We'd like to thank the Tavern Hill Hall.
Speaker 2: It's great, Dean our server, Dean the server.
Speaker 5: We'd like to thank Jeff Palermo and his party kept
Speaker 5: all of this immediately, was like what if we did this,
Speaker 5: You're like, yep, we're doing it.
Speaker 2: We're doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Our particular software is his uh uh sponsor. Measure Measure
Speaker 5: is his company that also sponsored it.
Speaker 2: So we'd like to thank all those people and.
Speaker 5: Our sponsors, Ray Gun Text Control and Pulse Oar Security.
Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you guys. Yeah, thank you to everybody who's
Speaker 2: put up with us for the last two thousand shows.
Speaker 2: And hopefully we'll be back next week. We will By MIKEE.
Speaker 2: Dot Net.
Speaker 41: Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced
Speaker 41: by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post
Speaker 41: production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, and of
Speaker 41: course in the cloud online at pwop dot com.
Speaker 32: Visit our website at d O T N E t
Speaker 32: R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads,
Speaker 32: mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going
Speaker 32: back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand
Speaker 32: and two.
Speaker 41: And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep
Speaker 41: us in business. Now go write some code.
Speaker 1: See you next.
Speaker 33: Time, Got
Speaker 5: Daddy see a summer time that reaches home than my
Speaker 5: Texas in line present