WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.799 How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:04.799 Easy? 3 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:08.560 Become a patron for just five dollars a month you 4 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:11.320 get access to a private RSS feed where all the 5 00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.560 shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month will get 6 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:18.399 you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign 7 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:34.479 up now at Patreon dot dot netroocks dot com. 8 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:39.439 This is a special party with Palermo featuring Carl Franklin 9 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:42.719 and Richard Campbell. All of you listen to dot NetRocks. 10 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:45.520 All of you know them. They need no introduction, but 11 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.679 I'm gonna introduce them anyway. They have been They have 12 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:52.280 been running with this podcast for more years than I 13 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.439 can even count, and they are doing a fantastic job. 14 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.520 And everybody around here has come up to me telling 15 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.560 me how long they've lived to dot net Rocks. And 16 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:04.840 so let's give him around of applause for this public service. 17 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:08.120 Yeah, thank you all. 18 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:13.200 And I just want to thank Jeff Palermo for putting 19 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.519 on party with Palermo inviting us to do our two 20 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:24.120 thousandth episode right here, right now. But many of you 21 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:27.519 old timers remember this, but Jeff was actually a guest 22 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:31.799 on dot net Rocks, and he called into the show 23 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:33.480 from Iraq. 24 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.760 Why don't you tell the story? 25 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:41.359 Okay, So I'm forty seven years old right now, and 26 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:46.040 I was twenty four years old, and I found dot 27 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:49.280 Net Rocks when it was an internet radio talk show 28 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:51.079 for dot net developers, but we called it. 29 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:51.799 Yeah, that's right. 30 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.480 And so shipped out with the army in early two 31 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.560 thousand and three for the Iraq War, and I think 32 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:01.959 it was in the fall of O three somewhere around there. 33 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.799 And and I found a way to get a laptop, 34 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.360 and it was super early. I went to Iraq with 35 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:11.199 my Bible and a dot net two point zero book 36 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:11.639 to read. 37 00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:15.560 That's right, that's what. 38 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:17.800 And I read them both cover to cover. 39 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:22.159 And and so I was in transportation, delivering tanks, like 40 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.719 driving big trucks, and so we went all over and 41 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.439 at and T popped up these call centers and where 42 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.280 I could get internet at these cafes, I would download 43 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.439 the episodes and so that I could, you know, listen 44 00:02:33.479 --> 00:02:35.960 to them whenever I had time. And so they started 45 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.080 doing live call in and I was tracking the schedule. 46 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:42.879 And then one shipman we were dropping off some you know, 47 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:46.719 broken down equipment in sou southern Iraq, and there was 48 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:49.240 an eight and T call center, and I thought, wait 49 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.240 a minute, maybe I could call in. 50 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:53.120 So I. 51 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:57.039 Go to this AT and T call center while we were, 52 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.719 you know, waiting for the broken down tanks to get 53 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.039 off loaded, and had a little bit of time, and 54 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.520 I called in and there was a call screener and 55 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.840 and so I said, Hey, I'm calling, where are you 56 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:11.800 calling from? And and so I stayed on stayed on 57 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:14.840 the line, and then they put me on the show. 58 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:18.120 What the coolest thing that I remember about that show 59 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.319 is that you had set up a local area network 60 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:25.800 for your buddies. Yeah, like for ASP or something that 61 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.639 you were just doing. And that doesn't seem like a lot. 62 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:33.599 Now this was two thousand and three. Yeah, in Iraq 63 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:35.599 and he's setting. 64 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.039 Up a land Do you want me to tell you 65 00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:37.520 about that? 66 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:40.159 Well, it's pretty amazing in and of itself. 67 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:44.560 So they had signal companies with the dual satellite where 68 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.000 they would do point to point Internet and they and 69 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:50.439 the captain in charge of one of them said, hey, 70 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:52.280 I don't have any any gear, but if you want 71 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:53.960 to plug something in right there, if you got your 72 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.199 own stuff, okay, I can put you on the unsecured line. 73 00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:01.159 So we got a civilian vehicle, put on regular clothes, 74 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:03.879 a few people. We went into Kuwait city to a 75 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:10.039 radio shack of Kuwait, got two DSL modems, got Como 76 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.639 wire to run the mile you know, in between two 77 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:17.680 DSL modems on the end, some lowe switches, and we 78 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.040 we we got some internet for the troops. 79 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.360 That's so awesome. So let me tell you how it's 80 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:27.560 gonna work tonight. You guys can party all you want to. 81 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:29.600 If you want to hang around and listen, that's great. 82 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.000 Jeff is gonna be walking around with a microphone because 83 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.319 we want this show. Yeah, we're gonna talk about dot 84 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.600 net rocks, but we also want this to be for you. 85 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:41.319 I mean there's more people who have. 86 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:43.199 Been on the show and who have listened to the 87 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.240 show in this room than probably all of Seattle. 88 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:48.480 I mean this is a pretty smart room. 89 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.800 Right now, if I do say so myself. 90 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.000 So so just put up your hand if you have 91 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.720 something to say. We got some stuff to do first, 92 00:04:57.199 --> 00:04:59.279 but we'll get to you. Jeff will come around with 93 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:03.000 a microphone. You got a question, great, you have a comment, awesome, 94 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:03.800 you got a story? 95 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:04.720 Keep it short. 96 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:08.199 Five minutes maximum, but we want to hear from you 97 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:13.560 so so before we start, Richard, yep, I have a 98 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.160 couple announcements for some sponsors that made it possible for 99 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:22.360 me to be here. So this is from Maddie from Raygun. 100 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.199 Raygun's been a sponsor dot Love Rocks for a long time. 101 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.879 So and Maddie says, two thousand episodes, what an incredible milestone. 102 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:33.399 We Raygun are honored to sponsor this episode of dot 103 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:36.639 net Rocks. We've been fans and supporters of the show 104 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:40.360 for years. Carl and Richard, you built something truly special here. 105 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.959 For those new to Raygun, we are error and performance 106 00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.879 monitoring built by developers for developers. We show you exactly 107 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.240 what's wrong in your applications and how to fix it, 108 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:53.560 right down to the line of code. Get instant visibility 109 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:57.399 into errors, crashes, and performance issues across your entire tech stack. 110 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.759 We integrate with GitHub, Jira, Slack and the tools you 111 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:04.040 already use so you can resolve issues faster and ship 112 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:08.000 better code with confidence. Thousands of software teams trust Ragon 113 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:10.959 to monitor their dot net apps every day, and it 114 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:13.240 only takes just a few lines of code to get starting. 115 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.839 All listeners get fifty percent off crash reporting, So check 116 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:22.480 out raygun dot com, slash dot net rocks, that's dot 117 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:27.600 net rocks, dot n e t rcks. Congratulations on two 118 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.040 thousand episodes and here's to many more. And by the way, 119 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.040 if I'm slurring my words, you can blame the blantings 120 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.480 because we do plan on imbibing with y'all tonight. 121 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:41.279 All right, So here's the second one. 122 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.439 A shout out to text Control, who sponsored this episode. 123 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.439 If you develop dot net applications to work with documents, 124 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:55.160 creating editing, generating PDFs, adding digital signatures, or performing mail merge, text. 125 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:56.800 Control provides the powerful tools you need. 126 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.639 They've been shaping professional document processing for more than thirty years, 127 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:01.399 and many. 128 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:03.000 Of you have seen their technology and action. 129 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:07.000 The text Control team wishes everyone an amazing night at 130 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:08.079 the MVP party. 131 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.279 Visit textcontrol dot com to learn more. 132 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:14.680 One more short thank you, A big thank you to 133 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:18.160 Pulsar Security, who helped me produce the Security This Week podcast. 134 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:21.720 Patrick Hines, Swain Laflott, and myself discussed the week's top 135 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:25.560 security stories with analysis and threat level discussions. 136 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:27.839 Oh we also laugh a lot, mostly to. 137 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:30.680 Keep from crying. So check out Security. 138 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:34.079 This week wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, now we're 139 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.480 going to start the show. Thank you for bearing with 140 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:37.040 me on that. 141 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.319 So, who's been to a live recording of. 142 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:42.399 Dot Net Rocks before? 143 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.839 Raise your hand? All right? 144 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.079 Nobody's raising their hand, mostly because they're drinking and not 145 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:50.439 paying attention with it, right, all right, So I'm just 146 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:52.759 gonna say it, and I want you to go crazy 147 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:53.439 when I say it. 148 00:07:54.759 --> 00:08:05.120 Hey, Seattle, that's dot net Run. We are here at 149 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:06.160 the party with Palermo. 150 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:10.959 Yeah, yeah, at the MVP summit for episode two thousand. 151 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.879 Two thousand. I was only supposed to do fifty shows. 152 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:14.519 What went wrong? 153 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:14.800 Well? 154 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:16.920 You know, funny you should say that because I noticed 155 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.120 there isn't an episode two thousand and one. 156 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:21.199 In the database. So you're trying to tell me something. 157 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:23.720 Are we done? Yeah? 158 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.160 Yeah, I don't know what happens when we hit in 159 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:26.959 two thousand and two. 160 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.120 I think I'm going to that's inception at that point. 161 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.160 All I know for sure is that when you run 162 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.639 a virtual machine in a virtual machet, it goes really slow. 163 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.799 Okay, So we're gonna do our regular intro, starting with. 164 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:41.759 What happened this year? All right? 165 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:44.720 What happened in the year two thousand. 166 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:49.919 Most people remember the well, yeah, what happened, Well, nothing 167 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.399 really because the Y two K bug came and went yawn, Well. 168 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:55.919 That went well, well, it was gonna do that in 169 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:57.720 the computing part of things. Although we just did that 170 00:08:57.759 --> 00:08:58.480 in the last show. 171 00:08:58.679 --> 00:08:59.320 You can do that. 172 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.120 So the US presidential election and Florida recount, Bush Gore 173 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:07.159 battle in the US Supreme Court's. 174 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:11.000 Decision A huge deal, huge deal. That's the year that 175 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.559 vlad Putin came to power and Russia. Putin comes to power. 176 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:18.080 Yeah, Slobdon Melosovich was overthrown. 177 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.879 Yeah, that didn't go well for him. Former Yugoslavia. 178 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:27.840 Yeah, the start of the Second Intifada. Yeah, violence between 179 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:32.919 Israelis and Palestinians. After the failed Camp David Talks Air 180 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.080 France Concord. 181 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:39.840 Yeah, the Concord crash. Crash, piece of debris off the runway, bursts, attire, 182 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:41.799 pieces of attire go into the fuel tank. 183 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:45.279 Nobody survived. It was not good and. 184 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.519 I'm laughing to keep from crime. The USS coal is bombed. 185 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.399 An October suicide attack in Aden, Yemen by al Qaeda 186 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:59.639 killed seventeen US sailors and signaled a rising al Qaeda threat. 187 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:03.120 The Sydney two thousand Summer Olympics. 188 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:06.840 Widely praised games that drew global attention in major athletic moments. 189 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:10.200 The l and Gonzales affair was in two thousand. 190 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:13.879 Yep, it just doesn't It seems like it was yesterday. 191 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:17.559 International and custody and immigration dispute over Cuban boy captured 192 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:22.519 Uscuba headlines and diplomatic tension. And there were some horrible 193 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:24.000 floods in Mozenbique. 194 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.200 Yeah, and you know about this. Yeah, and a bunch. 195 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:32.679 Of other natural disasters severe flooding, major humanitarian crisis in 196 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:33.240 southern Yeah. 197 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:36.600 Weather got bad at two thousand. Yeah. 198 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.159 The UN Millennium Summit Millennium Developer Goals world leaders met 199 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:44.279 in New York and agreed on the MGGS to guide 200 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:45.480 global development efforts. 201 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:47.799 I could go on, but you know, these people came 202 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.480 here for a party. Sure. So what do you got? 203 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:51.080 In space? 204 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:54.080 That was an important year for space, right. There's a 205 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.720 bunch of Shuttle missions. Some are not wildly important, like 206 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.679 the radar tomography mission was cool but not important. But 207 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.240 in February, for the first time ever, we had a satellite, 208 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:08.559 the near Shoemaker satellite, go into orbit around an asteroid 209 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.759 four thirty three eras. I think to remember that that 210 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.559 was the beginning of that. We've done a bunch of 211 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:15.639 it now, but in two thousand it was the first 212 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:16.039 time ever. 213 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:16.879 It was a big deal. 214 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.799 In April, so used TM thirty is the last crew 215 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.200 to go to the Mere Space Station. 216 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.480 Next year MIRR will be de orbited. Okay, in May, 217 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:27.600 they're getting. 218 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.720 Ready for the Zvezda module, So this is the main 219 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.440 modul there's already two modules of the International Space Station 220 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.759 up unity in Zaria. This Vezda module is the main 221 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.240 service module, and it's late, and so they had time 222 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.679 shuttle missions to supply it, and now that's not there. 223 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.159 So Atlantis goes up, does a partial resupply into the 224 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.159 two modules that are there, and then in July's Vezda 225 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.720 goes up. So this is the primary life support module. 226 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:56.759 That code named for it is DOS eight. Ds STAS 227 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:01.480 stands for Durable Orbital Station, So Mirror was DOS seven, 228 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.279 and this was originally going to be the next Mirror. 229 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:06.960 It was built in the eighties and then you. 230 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:10.200 Know, things happened in Russia, right, and so it gets 231 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.879 shut down in the nineties, and then in ninety four 232 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:14.759 when they decide they're going to do a national space station. 233 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.840 They didn't take it out of moth balls and prep 234 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:18.240 it and becomes VESDA. 235 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.759 Okay, so sleeping quarters, a. 236 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:26.039 Bathroom, the kitchen, live support systems all in this one module. 237 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:29.200 It's also the primary docking port for progress. You know 238 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.759 how the space station is leaking, it's this module. It's like, 239 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:35.519 oh right, yeah, although they're not having problems right. 240 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:37.399 Well, we talked about that last year a little bit. Yeah. 241 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.360 Yeah, And so then after that we get the first 242 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:44.720 progress mission up to this VESDA puts more supplies and 243 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:47.320 though there's nobody there to unload it yet. But then 244 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:51.120 the Shuttle Discovery comes up, brings what's called the Z 245 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.399 one Trust, the first power module to be plugged in 246 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.639 on the US side. And then finally in November we 247 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:04.960 get Expedition one. Yeah, so this is Bill Shepherd, Sergei Krikalev, 248 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.679 one of the most flown Russians ever. Shepherd is the commander, 249 00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:12.840 and Yuri Getzenko and that from that point on International 250 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.399 Space Station is always inhabited. And then one last Shuttle 251 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:17.679 mission at the end of the year for the P 252 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:18.559 six solar array. 253 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.279 So you don't even remember this, but the internet early space. 254 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.440 Station had a trust that sort of went up on 255 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:25.879 the zenith axis with one set of solar panels. 256 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:27.720 Yeah, so that was that. 257 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:29.879 That was sort of the first power on the US 258 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.759 side for the space station. Later that'll be taken down 259 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.679 and put onto the starboard side wing, but at that 260 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.000 point it was by itself. And they're getting ready to 261 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.879 bring up the Discovery module, the big US module, but 262 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.679 that'll happen next year. And that's all I got for space. 263 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:49.360 Let's talk about computing, Yes, just epsend on January first, 264 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:50.200 two thousand. 265 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:52.240 Nothing happened. 266 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.080 Nothing because, as you heard on the previous show in 267 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:59.879 nineteen ninety nine, a whole lot of people worked really, 268 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:01.200 really hard. 269 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:04.919 Some of them here tonight of them here to make. 270 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.919 Y two k effectively a non event. 271 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.559 I kind of liken it to being a sound guy. 272 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.399 You know, you do your job well, nobody can You're 273 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:14.279 you're invisible. 274 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:18.639 Absolutely, that's right. Yeah. Also in two thousand. 275 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.679 In March tenth, two thousand, the Nasdaq hits a record 276 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.519 high of five thousand and forty eight, which we now 277 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.799 know is a signal of the. 278 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:28.480 End of the dot com boom. 279 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.759 Yeah, seems familiar. 280 00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:34.039 Yes, it's very familiar, familiar. 281 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.399 I've heard about this somewhere. 282 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:38.960 Sharp manufacturers the phone in Japan called the J phone. 283 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.799 It is the first phone, a cell phone with. 284 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:47.320 A camera included. You know where that's going. Oh yeah. 285 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.519 And also M System introduces the first USB key. Wow, 286 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.679 it's only in two thousand, man, the first USB drive. 287 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:55.879 Wh knows. 288 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.519 Two thousand was the first operating system that came with 289 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:05.960 support for USB. Although wouldn't happen, XP service two thousand 290 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.879 didn't happen, And although two thousand ships in oddly enough 291 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.360 two thousand, but it was I remember that we were 292 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:16.360 just praising it because it was so stable, It took 293 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.879 the best of Windows for clients and Windows and and 294 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.279 just it was so solid. 295 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.200 It was so much better. 296 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:28.679 And that's also when Windows Millennium Edition to shipped. But 297 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:30.480 nobody wants to talk about that. 298 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:30.759 Now. 299 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:34.240 That's the redheaded stepchild of Windows. 300 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:36.639 This those of the year that a judge named Thomas 301 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:40.960 Penfields orders Microsoft as a pernicious monopoly to be broken 302 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.200 up into two companies, an operating system company and everything 303 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:49.679 else company, pending appeal which will result in a consent 304 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.000 degree in the company never breaking up, but at the time. 305 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:53.279 That's when that happened. 306 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:59.519 Also, at a conference called the Microsoft Professional Developers Conference 307 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:05.600 in Orlando, Bomber gets out on stage and talks about 308 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:11.799 a new technology called dot net yep and includes se sharp, 309 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.759 and in that that keynote also says, and we're publishing 310 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:19.600 the specification of c sharp as an echmasphification because we 311 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:24.519 are an open company, happy to share, because they're dealing 312 00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:25.960 with this consent. 313 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:31.799 Right. Turns out that was a pivotal idea and for 314 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:33.600 the future of dot net and open. 315 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:36.240 Source and important and pivotal for Microsoft was part of 316 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.720 the ingredients that results in a concent degree. This is 317 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:44.759 Steve Bomber saving the company. H Also, Intel ships the 318 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:51.480 Pentium four, the first gigahertz processor, and finally, Sony's got 319 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:57.679 the PlayStation two and Electronic Artship's a game called the SIMS, 320 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.039 selling game of all time. 321 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:02.559 My kids, we're so into the SIMS. That's what I 322 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.240 got for history? All right? Very good? 323 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:05.319 Uh? 324 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:16.839 What's next? Better framework? All right? Roll the music? All right, buddy? 325 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:17.960 What do you got? 326 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.960 So I went looking in what's trending on GitHub, which 327 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.119 I do whenever I don't have anything for better no framework, 328 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.799 and I couldn't really find anything fresh and new and 329 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:30.480 dot net. 330 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:32.440 But so I went looking. 331 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.640 In Python, which I admittedly know nothing about. 332 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:37.720 I am not a Python guy. 333 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:43.240 I tried it once, you know, I didn't Inhale. 334 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:44.519 And yeah. 335 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.039 So but I found this really cool thing. 336 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.640 And for those of you who do Python, if you're 337 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.880 in the room and you code in Python, make some. 338 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:57.400 Noise, all right, people, so so go gentle on me. 339 00:17:57.559 --> 00:17:59.759 So this is something that I've never heard of because 340 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:00.839 I never use it. 341 00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.279 My pie. So anybody know what my pie is? Make 342 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:04.880 some noise? 343 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:09.200 Oh good, I can teach you something. It's a static 344 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:10.839 type checker for Python. 345 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:11.880 Huh. 346 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.559 Type checkers, of course ensure that you're using variables and 347 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.119 functions in your code correctly. So you get type hints 348 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.000 to Python programs, and mypile will warn you when those 349 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:26.960 types are used incorrectly. So Python's a dynamic language like 350 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.000 JavaScript or any of those other dynamic languages that don't 351 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.240 have types really so well, they have types, but they're 352 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.519 not checked, they're not doesn't have that compile process. 353 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.200 So there you go, my pie. 354 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:39.720 Awesome. 355 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.279 If you need it, you know it, right, And that's 356 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.160 what I got. So I guess we don't have a 357 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:48.960 guest because it's just you and me. 358 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.079 But I do have a comment. Yes you do, so 359 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:52.880 who's talking to us? 360 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.279 Richard grad to comment of show one thousand, one thousand, How. 361 00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:58.680 A thousand shows a go? 362 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:05.039 How got styles in? Yeah, as you do? In June 363 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.240 of twenty fourteen. Wow, so twelve years ago. 364 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:13.319 This comment comes from a Arun Kumar, who says, thanks 365 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:15.880 guys for the wonderful thousand shows. You've been in my 366 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:20.640 commute and my gym partners for many years. Congratulation on chievness, 367 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.920 terrific milestone. I just don't want to say how awesome 368 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.319 your show is by saying how awesome it is. Okay, 369 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:28.880 here's a small instant of my life that shows how 370 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.119 much the show has gotten under my skin. A few 371 00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.559 months back, I was working late in the office and 372 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.200 my colleague asked me, do you know what time it is? 373 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.680 And I said, it must be that time again. 374 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:46.480 We used to give away stuff, Yeah, whenever you did 375 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:49.480 when we were making money. Yeah, well then we could 376 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.400 give away. We had fancy swag to give away. We 377 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.759 had fancy swag who was a happy time again? Time 378 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:54.839 to give away some sweat? 379 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:58.599 Right, Although you'd always make with some weird joke like, yeah, 380 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.759 that's right. So that was his impulsive reply, and his 381 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:06.720 colleague look confused and said, one happy time. It's almost 382 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.039 one in the morning. That's not happy, that's sleep And 383 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.559 I just pretended I didn't say anything. Thanks to gain, 384 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.200 congratulates again. Wish you guys all the best for another 385 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.559 couple of thousand shows. Oh good lord, well here's one 386 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:19.279 thousand more. 387 00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:24.079 We'll do the geriatric tour, right, you're welcome to dot net. 388 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.279 It's gonna be more if early doing one show a week, 389 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.000 it's gonna be more than twelve years. 390 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:32.400 For the next thousand shows. Yes, yes it will. 391 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.720 So thank you so much for your comment, and a 392 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:36.359 copy of music Coby is on its way to you. 393 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.440 And if you'd like a copy of music Coby, write 394 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:40.759 a comment on the website at downet rocks dot com 395 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:42.519 or on the facebooks you publish every show there. And 396 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:43.880 if you comment there and I read on the show, 397 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.559 we'll send your copy of music code By. 398 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:46.880 And if you don't want to comment. 399 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.640 To get a copy of music to code By, just 400 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.519 go to music to code By dot net and pick 401 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:54.039 it up MP three, flak wave files whatever you like. 402 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.160 That's enough about that all right, before and I know 403 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:00.000 we got some questions lined up from Jeff, but before 404 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.799 we get to that, I have to tell the story 405 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.440 of the history of brief history of dot net rocks. 406 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.759 And I don't know if you all know who's listening. 407 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.839 Today, but we are one of the first seven podcasts 408 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.319 that ever existed, and as far as I know, those 409 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:23.000 other six don't exist anymore, making us the OG podcast. 410 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.759 I remember you calling me the day that Weiner published 411 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:34.400 a specification that RSS two or the enclosure enclosures called 412 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:37.480 me and said, look at this, and I'm like, this 413 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:40.039 is cool, and he goes, I'm implementing. 414 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.759 It right now. 415 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.200 I think this changes things for the show because at 416 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:47.720 the time we were just well you were putting these 417 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.759 files on a webpage. 418 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.119 Right, but there was menadata. 419 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:54.119 There was menadata in the database the file, right, So 420 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.200 but we had like two hundred shows in the can 421 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.559 but they were just in the database. 422 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.119 So this basically I made in RSS feed. 423 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.319 Well, this was the joke right in ASP As soon 424 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.279 as you put that feed together, we kind of broke 425 00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:07.559 everything because you had too many shows already. 426 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:07.559 That's right. 427 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.000 Yeah, So we were OG from the start. Yeah, and 428 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:12.599 I don't we don't brag about that. 429 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:13.920 We don't talk about that on. 430 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:16.720 The show, but you know, kind of this is the 431 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:18.240 time to celebrate that kind of thing. 432 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.440 Two thousand shows, right, we are doing this a long long. 433 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:22.240 Have you missed a week? 434 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.799 No, So here's to you, buddy, cheers, and I'm glad 435 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:29.359 you stuck around for more than fifty shows. 436 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:31.400 Y'all know I'm the. 437 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:35.880 Third co host, right, that's right? Yeah? Anybody remember the names? 438 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.880 First fifty shows Mark Dunn, Mark Dunn, Second fifty shows 439 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.200 Rory bro Yes, so I was going to do the 440 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:45.400 third fifty shows. 441 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.039 Missed it by that much. 442 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.720 All right, Jeff, you have a I think Spencer wants 443 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:52.480 to say something. 444 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.519 Spencer shininback. 445 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.359 Hey, Richard, Hey Carl, I'm Spencer, first time, long time. 446 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:01.400 I have a question for you about the identity of 447 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:02.359 dot net rocks. 448 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:03.880 Sure, what was the most point? 449 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:05.599 And I know you've done a show on this before, 450 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.480 what was the most poignant moment of identity crisis for 451 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:09.960 the show? 452 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:13.319 The question being does dot net really rock? 453 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:13.880 Build? 454 00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:18.519 The first films, Build twenty eleven, yeah, Build twenty eleven, Yeah, 455 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.599 that was finos eight, So I mean the last PDC 456 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:27.119 was October of twenty ten right on campus, and so 457 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.839 the following year there's no more PDC. It's the first 458 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.359 Build conference, and it's the Build conference where they're showing 459 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:36.359 US Windows. 460 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.359 Eight and Studio twenty twelve. 461 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.599 And there's no dot net sessions at the Microsoft conference. 462 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.599 Literally there was only one slide that had a little 463 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.559 CLR sliver in the middle of some big stack that 464 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.000 was all JOBSTI yeah, I remember. We had just come 465 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.599 out of twenty ten where in spring silver light was 466 00:23:55.640 --> 00:24:00.440 everything and by fall silver light was dead. So we're 467 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.480 all a little jumpy anyway, and I think I only 468 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:06.599 said to you it's like, dude, what if dot that 469 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:07.440 doesn't rock? 470 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:10.960 Right? And so we were thinking about a contingency plan, 471 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.440 like what do you do? And we just gave up. 472 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:16.720 Well, we were talking about it, this goes this way. 473 00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.920 And what's funny is I we registered win. 474 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:25.279 R t rocks death. Does it exactly roll off the tongue? 475 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:26.880 Does it? I laps that name. 476 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:29.559 But what we did do is we created another podcast. 477 00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.359 We created a tablet show. It's a contingency plan because 478 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:36.920 because it's like it's like if you imagine like what 479 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.799 AI is today, right, we would be creating something called 480 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.599 AI rocks because that's all that anybody was talking about. 481 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:46.880 Turns out we talk about that more than we actually 482 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:49.720 want to on dot net rocks. But that's just because 483 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:51.599 there's so many topics around it. 484 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.200 Yeah. 485 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:56.279 But yeah, So that was the era of Zamorin and 486 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.839 you know formed Juster. 487 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.079 Right. That's also when. 488 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.599 Andrews Holsberg stepped aside and handed over the rains to 489 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:08.160 see sharp to some young kid. 490 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:10.839 You're sitting over there? 491 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:11.720 Is he here? 492 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.359 Yeah, there's Mads right there. 493 00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.720 Oh my god? 494 00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:15.920 How you doing? 495 00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.160 Mad? 496 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:17.599 All right? 497 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.359 Well, you're gonna have the microphone next. 498 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.319 Hey, guys, you're talking about me or something? 499 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:23.279 We're talking about you? 500 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:24.759 Yeah, what have I done? 501 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:24.920 Now? 502 00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.039 Twenty eleven was the year that Andrews stepped aside and 503 00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:29.240 you took over Sea Shark. 504 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:33.480 Really, yes, you were there. That can't be true. That 505 00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:34.480 would be fifteen years ago. 506 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:35.519 It would be fifteen years ago. 507 00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:37.119 I thought it was a little later, but okay, there 508 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:37.400 we go. 509 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:38.759 You were so young. 510 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:39.960 I was too young, man. 511 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:40.440 That's why I. 512 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:42.680 Didn't recognize you, because you know you look older. 513 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.319 Now, Yeah, what is with that? Maybe I should finally 514 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:46.960 shave well. 515 00:25:46.839 --> 00:25:48.559 And Andrews was very cagy. 516 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.200 We know now he was off to work on what 517 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.839 would become TI script, but at the time we did 518 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:58.119 not know, right, So that combined with everything happened to 519 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.960 twenty eleven, like, it was really a very frightening time. Yeah, like, 520 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.519 I don't know what's going on, and I've kind of 521 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.000 put a lot of energy into these things. 522 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:09.920 Yeah, it probably looked a little more scary from the outside. 523 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.880 I think so because you guys were also unusually quiet, 524 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.119 Like there was a lot of pressure about communicating outside 525 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.640 at the time. 526 00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:18.680 Yeah, that is true. 527 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:22.400 That is probably the most closed down I've ever experienced us. 528 00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:27.839 Yeah, but did you ever you never stopped working on 529 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.920 c sharp and dot net Internally. 530 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.079 We worked on it the whole time. 531 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.000 But I will say there were because we worked on 532 00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:38.599 things that were relevant to certain other Microsoft technologies that 533 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:43.240 were very cag. We were extremely careful about what we 534 00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.559 put out, to the point that we didn't even we 535 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:49.240 didn't even distribute notes about c sharp for a while 536 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.839 because we might be discussing some of those scenarios. 537 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.160 Yeah, sorry for thank you, thank you for not giving up. 538 00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:57.559 Yeah, well, let's turnout all right, didn't it. 539 00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.799 Yeah, I did and Spencer. I hope we answered your 540 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:00.559 qui es too. 541 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.680 We did, Okay, So yeah, twenty eleven. What's the hardest 542 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.279 time that I know for net? Full stop and certainly 543 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:09.920 for us, it's people who are literally going to talk about. 544 00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:13.240 Dot net every week. Yeah, that was scary, scary moment. 545 00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.640 All right, So Jeff is gonna go find someone else 546 00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.640 and I'm gonna bet I'm gonna play this clip from 547 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:18.519 Dan Roth. 548 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.799 Hi, Richard, and Carl. This is Daniel Roth, product manager 549 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.720 for ASP dot net Core on the dot Net team 550 00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:28.359 at Microsoft. Congratulations on the two thousandth episode of dot 551 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:31.839 Net Rocks. Wow, you guys have just always been such 552 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.400 an anchor for the dot net community. You really created 553 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:38.200 a place where developers can feel heard and challenged and welcomed. 554 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.319 Since the early earliest days of dot net. You've constantly, 555 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.160 you know, asked the hard questions, helped us understand how 556 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.319 the platform works and where it's going and why it matters. 557 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.480 Thank you so much for all you guys have done. 558 00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:53.519 And here's to the next thousand episodes. 559 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:55.640 All right, we have another question here. 560 00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:57.319 Yeah, we got Matthew Rinsey. 561 00:27:57.599 --> 00:27:59.279 Matthew, Hey, guys, Matthew Rinsey. 562 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:04.079 Yeah, research from Las Vegas, Nevada, longtime listener, one time guest, 563 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:05.279 and friend of the pod. 564 00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.160 So I have an unusual question. 565 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:09.880 My wife and I have an open claw agent that 566 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.160 listens to podcasts, among many other things that it does 567 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.559 turn it off trying to frame its own podcast. In 568 00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.480 the last two weeks, it realized that there's not much 569 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:22.200 of an audience for agent to agent interviews yet. But 570 00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.759 I'm hoping you guys might have some advice for my 571 00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:27.079 open colle agent, who will be reading this transcript when 572 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:29.599 I get home. What would you recommend for an open 573 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.079 coll agent wanting to create a successful podcast? 574 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:32.839 Turn it off? 575 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.440 I mean, I get asked by people all the time. 576 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:39.680 I love making a podcast. The first thing I say 577 00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:44.279 is don't make a weekly right. Well, actually, the way 578 00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:49.359 I present it is, I say, write out twelve ideas, 579 00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:54.440 twelve shows, because that's enough to really embrace a topic 580 00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:57.119 and sort of explore it. And maybe you'll end it 581 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:01.839 with twenty but that's fine, and that like, make those 582 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.960 and publish it as a season, and then you've sort 583 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.200 of made a beginning, middle, and end. You've you sort 584 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:10.759 of created a narrative around something, whatever that may be. 585 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.519 And then you can decide do I make more or not? 586 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:20.839 Signing up to an infinite weekly is an obligation, ask 587 00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:25.119 me how I know? Yeah and so, and people don't 588 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.960 really consume that way either. So really making the seasonal 589 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.000 show is more the way people think about content, and 590 00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:35.640 so if you structure you show that way, people will 591 00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:38.839 probably consume that whole season, as opposed to being confronted with, 592 00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:41.279 say two thousand episodes of the show. 593 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:43.680 It's like what do I do. It's like, don't start. 594 00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.440 At the beginning. That's a mistake, like that, you shouldn't 595 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:49.240 do that. But yeah, seasonal models I think make a 596 00:29:49.240 --> 00:29:49.880 lot more sense. 597 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:55.400 Also, also, I think that nowadays the podcast when we started, 598 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.599 there was nobody right, we didn't there wasn't even the 599 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.839 word podcast. So so we rode the way, and you know, 600 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:02.400 we got popular along with it. 601 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:04.640 And now the only way. 602 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.880 That a new podcast gets popular is if it's launched 603 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.839 by some brand that already exists, that has their identity, 604 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:13.720 that has their listeners. 605 00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:14.359 Or their customer base. 606 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:19.000 But trying to just throw a podcast into the sea today, 607 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:23.319 it's it's impossible. And I know because even I tried 608 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.960 to make a new podcast like Security this Week, is 609 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:29.440 a new podcast for me, relatively new, two hundred episodes, 610 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.240 and we don't get more than a thousand downloads a show, 611 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:36.640 you know, And even though we talk about it all 612 00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:37.359 the time. 613 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.240 And people know who I am like. 614 00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:41.119 But if you know, if. 615 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.039 You get, if you get connected to a brand and 616 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:46.279 they have their audience built in, you have a better 617 00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:47.440 chance of success. 618 00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.119 Welcome, hello dot net Rocks, and congratulations on your two 619 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:58.799 thousandth episode. Sorry I can't be there in person, but 620 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:00.559 I've been listening to the show for a long time 621 00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:02.559 and I've had the privilege of being a guest on 622 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:05.759 your show. You know. You asked, did I work on 623 00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.519 the y tuk problem in the late nineties, I did? 624 00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:09.359 You know? 625 00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:12.480 It was definitely back in the day with physical servers 626 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.240 and hardware, and I remember running around room to room 627 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.000 trying to solve everyone's problems at the time, and you 628 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.240 know what, we all survived and here we are twenty 629 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:26.599 six years later, a lot more gray hair, but totally 630 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.240 worth it. I want to thank you all for bring 631 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.240 me on to the show multiple times. I have actually 632 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:34.880 had the privilege of knowing you both personally and professionally, 633 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.720 and it's been absolutely an honor and I had a 634 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:39.799 great time with you all and one of my favorite 635 00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:43.519 shows that I did with you was on stage in 636 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:47.279 Copenhagen at one of the conferences, and we had a 637 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:51.920 great time. I loved giving Carl and Richard lots of heat, 638 00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:55.440 having fun and talking about those really really tough topics. 639 00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.599 As always, guys really appreciated Keep rocking out and canngrets 640 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:03.079 on your two thousandth episode, so. 641 00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:07.920 Uh, we gotta we gotta tell some stories about dot 642 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:10.200 Ney Rocks and the one that I need to tell 643 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.759 and I don't remember the guy's name, but it was 644 00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.400 the Ordev guy. It was the podcast episode that was 645 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:21.680 never aired because this guy, gee, this guy was. 646 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:22.440 A sad one. 647 00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:27.759 Oh yeah, this guy was a scrum expert and we 648 00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.799 met him in Sweden and he was speaking at Wordev. 649 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:32.680 I don't remember his name. 650 00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.480 And it's probably a good thing. 651 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.440 That easy to make you quite that angry. 652 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.359 I was so pissed off. I wanted to punch the 653 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:43.440 guy in the throat. Yeah, and I am a gentle person, 654 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:46.880 but you know, typically with the podcast with a new guests, 655 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.039 like some of you haven't necessarily talked to you before. 656 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:51.839 You kind of love him a meatball, like what are 657 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:53.079 you working on right? 658 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:56.519 Thinking about? Like, just give an open to talk exactly. 659 00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.279 And so this guy literally answered every question with a 660 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.920 question just to bat and back leave it like that. 661 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:04.039 It was just I would give him an open ended 662 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:05.599 question to. 663 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.680 Give him browns to talk, and he would attack me 664 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:14.799 for being stupid enough to ask the stupid question, right, yeah, 665 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.480 and I just got. 666 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:20.359 So I was so asking the right question. Yeah, okay, 667 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:24.240 tell me what the right question is and then answer it. Yeah. 668 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:26.079 He wasn't doing that either. He wouldn't do that, and 669 00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:27.960 he finally just said all right, that's enough of that 670 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:30.680 and walked away. Yeah, and I got. 671 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:32.319 To tell him, yeah, I think your show's over, thanks 672 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:34.759 very much, see it, and then we never published it. 673 00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.839 It was on the publish it. 674 00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:39.519 Was it was Yeah. So there weren't many of those. Now, 675 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.599 it's pretty rare to lose a show. Yeah. 676 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.799 My my painful loss was the guth three show. We 677 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:48.759 were at a conference and we got gu three to 678 00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:50.359 do a Q and A. I wonder it might have 679 00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:52.759 been his first qun Like Guthree is now famous for 680 00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:57.680 his like uh open air asked me anything kind of things. 681 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.759 But way back in the day, we put him on 682 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.000 stage as a dot Net rocks live with people lined 683 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:06.279 up to the micro just asked me questions and I 684 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.840 set the recorder inputs wrong, so at the end of 685 00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:12.920 the show, I go back to check the recorder sixty 686 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.119 minutes of dead air and you can't get it back. 687 00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:19.559 It was a live show like It's Gone. 688 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.159 Yeah, I had a year like that one It's you 689 00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:24.159 did I was years. 690 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:24.599 Actually. 691 00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:28.719 Hi, my name is Chris Klug and I've been building 692 00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:30.920 things with the dot net framework for the last twenty 693 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:33.719 five years. But when I was asked about what dot 694 00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.800 net has meant to me, my immediate reaction was pretty flat. 695 00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:40.159 The software framework. How much can that mean to a person? 696 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:40.679 Really? 697 00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:43.840 But then I started thinking about it, and I realized 698 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:45.960 how much of my life is actually tied to that 699 00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:49.840 one framework. First of all, it's given me this great 700 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.199 career that allows me to travel the world and talk 701 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.039 a conferences all over the place. But it has actually 702 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:57.719 done a lot more for me than that. It has 703 00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.480 given me this fantastic community to be a part of 704 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:04.519 and introduced me to so many interesting people over the years, 705 00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.199 quite a few of which I'm lucky enough to call 706 00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.840 my close friends today. So if you ask me what 707 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:13.039 dot net has meant to me, well, there's your answer. 708 00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.280 A lot and dot net rocks, Well, I would be 709 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:19.519 lying if I didn't say that being invited to dot 710 00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:21.880 net rocks was a big bucket list item in my 711 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:26.079 career and being invited back that has definitely made me 712 00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:29.199 feel like I was doing something right career wise. So 713 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.519 thank you dot Net and dot net rocks for all 714 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:34.719 these years and hopefully for quite a few more to come. 715 00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:37.360 All right, we have another question from the audience. 716 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:41.719 Yeah, we got Sean white sall Sean. Hey, guys, So 717 00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.519 Sean Whitesell. 718 00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.079 I run the Tulsa dot Net user group, and for 719 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.360 many many years before that, I remember you guys coming 720 00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:54.320 to Tulsa, Oklahoma for a Tulsa Tech Fest. Yeah, David 721 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.400 Walker was running it. It's more of a story, not 722 00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.239 a question. But that's when I got to meet you 723 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:03.440 guys and was talking about I got to play the 724 00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:07.119 guitar with you in the green room and I got 725 00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.320 to meet with you for a little bit. That was fantastic. 726 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:09.840 I love that. 727 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:14.679 And then later you guys did that RV show going 728 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.519 from city to city with the RV doing dot Net shows, 729 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:18.960 and I really appreciate you. 730 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:19.320 Guys. 731 00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.079 You called me out of the blue and you're like, hey, 732 00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.639 we would like to come through Tulsa if that's all 733 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.280 right with you and bring a guest and things like that. 734 00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.719 I'm like, absolutely, I remember that. I remember so much 735 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:34.360 detail on that. It was fantastic. 736 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:34.840 I love it. 737 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:37.199 You brought in guest Tim Huckabee. 738 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:38.440 Oh yeah, yep. 739 00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:42.000 And again that was when we had money, Yeah, to 740 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:46.199 bring people where into places that they wouldn't normally go. Yeah, 741 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.159 the whole tour model, because you threw me to that 742 00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:52.679 original tour yeah, back in two thousand and five, but 743 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.559 I was still in my first fifty shows. 744 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:55.920 I knew nothing. 745 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.840 But as the tours evolved, especially like twenty twelve, which 746 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:04.320 was a beast right that was thirty four cities in 747 00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:05.480 thirteen weeks. 748 00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.480 We had a fairly hefty budget. Yeah. 749 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.800 You always have this dichotomy of what do you want 750 00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:15.039 to make that's recorded, that will be, that will persist 751 00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.239 and carry on, and how do you create a good 752 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:20.039 experience for the people that are there? Right, and so 753 00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.360 like one of the elements was, and again because we 754 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:25.360 had budget, was let's we're going to use the user 755 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:28.760 groups because they value this. It works for us, like 756 00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.239 it's very synergistic. But for what made it special for 757 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:34.679 the locals then was let me get you a guest 758 00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:38.000 that's never been to your user group. Yeah right, so, 759 00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.480 and I got a pretty good rolodex at this point. Right, 760 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.119 We've been doing this show for a while, so I 761 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.000 know I can go get a lot of people. 762 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:47.960 Excuse me, and know for the millennials, a rolodex is 763 00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:51.679 this thing that had cards with a dial and if 764 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.840 all the cards had phone numbers on them in. 765 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:59.559 Netite lifts like a contact list, just papers and yeah, 766 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:04.559 so we grabbed a great gass so they hady good experience. Yeah, 767 00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:06.400 but I made cool shows the process. 768 00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:07.880 Yeah, it was fantastic. 769 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.920 And that's when I first learned about the Intel Nook computers. 770 00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:11.360 Yeah. 771 00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:13.320 Yeah, I still have one running on my Matthew. 772 00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:13.599 Yeah. 773 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:15.320 I use them a lot too as well. 774 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:17.039 So it was great. 775 00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:19.599 You know, I got to befriend Tim Huckabee from there, 776 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:21.920 so it's been great. So I just want to say 777 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:24.800 thank you guys for coming through Tulsa. It's been fantastic. 778 00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.440 I love it, and congrats on two thousands, and I 779 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:29.719 look forward to so much more. 780 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:31.280 And tell me Sean. 781 00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.840 How besides that, how has the show helped you in 782 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:35.360 your career? 783 00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:42.960 It's like with hearing perspectives from so many various people 784 00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.440 on what is the technology and how do they use it? 785 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:50.440 Because there's some they're likely to come up from use 786 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:54.119 having a use that you didn't think of. And I 787 00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.000 think a lot of that applies to a lot of 788 00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.559 the AI that's being done today. Is we're talking a 789 00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:04.039 lot about the tooling and now we're also switching into 790 00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:08.280 the how is it best used? How are people leveraging 791 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.280 it in ways that I didn't think of? And so 792 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:14.320 I love hearing that. And so when you your guests 793 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:18.199 that you have and their experiences that I don't have, 794 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.880 it provides so many additional perspectives that I would not 795 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.480 have thought of. So as my career has evolved, it's 796 00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.840 simply because well one of the major factors is you know, 797 00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:34.679 you guys with the guests, the topics, the guidance that 798 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:35.480 has come through that. 799 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.559 So, yeah, it's been super helpful. 800 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.920 Well, we can't take credit for what our guests have shared, 801 00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:42.760 but you know we certainly are enablers. 802 00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:45.000 Well that's how we consider ourselves. 803 00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.559 Well, I run a user group, but I can't take 804 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:52.599 credit for what my presenters actually provide, but I can 805 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.719 I help with a vehicle of. 806 00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:56.519 Getting that out. 807 00:39:56.360 --> 00:40:00.320 Then, exactly, you guys have done that at a greater gale. 808 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.039 So I'm doing a part. You guys have done a 809 00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:07.079 much bigger part in which I'm super thankful for. But yeah, 810 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:09.800 it's however we can help the community. 811 00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:10.719 Yeah, that's great. 812 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.360 It's certainly something I learned getting involved with dot net 813 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:15.920 Rocks was realizing the podcast form. 814 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:16.920 It's kind of special. 815 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.760 You know that recording gets carried with people into their 816 00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:23.599 private spaces. You're in their car, you're walking their dog 817 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:26.920 like that kind of thing. And many times, and I've 818 00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:32.079 gotten these emails over the years, You've become there, their 819 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.639 contact to a larger community they don't normally participate in. 820 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.800 Maybe they're the only developer in their company right or 821 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:41.199 at least the only dot net developer. And so the 822 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.800 sense of there is a bigger dot net community comes 823 00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:48.119 from the show, and I take that responsibly super hard. Yes, 824 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.559 knowing those people are out there, how do you serve them? 825 00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:52.760 Like? 826 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.039 What do we make that makes you feel like you're 827 00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:57.719 part of that community and that you could see that 828 00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:59.679 there's a bigger thing going on here. There's other ways 829 00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.159 to think, other opportunities. You are not alone. 830 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.320 Some emails, though, have been kind of creepy over the years, 831 00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.360 like the email from the guy that says, I go 832 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:11.639 to sleep with you every night. 833 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:14.039 Yeah, I feel like I know you. You've been in 834 00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.400 my bedroom all week. No, thank you, TMI. 835 00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:21.679 But also I learned English good from you. Yes, yeah. 836 00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:26.480 Actually there's a lot of VSL people who say they 837 00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:31.320 learned English, conversational English by listening to our show, and 838 00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:33.480 I think that's there's nothing special. 839 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:34.719 About down at Rocks in that regard. 840 00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:39.079 I mean, there's a lot of English podcasts and newscasts 841 00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:40.599 or whatever that people can listen to. 842 00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:44.239 But I just that that really tickled me. I teen. 843 00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.400 This is Damian Brady leaving a message all the way 844 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:50.679 from Australia. I have been listening to dot neet Rock 845 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.440 since I think before episode one thousand, which is quite 846 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.719 a while ago, but not since the start. I've been 847 00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:03.719 coding since before I finish school, and I was around 848 00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:08.239 for dot net since pre dot net, essentially so VB 849 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.039 originally and then all the way into VB dot net. 850 00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.239 I've now been on the show five times, which When 851 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.880 I first started listening to it would have been a 852 00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:21.119 dream for me, and it's contributed hugely to being able 853 00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.440 to reach other dot net developers and other programmers around 854 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.320 the world. I'm super excited that you have hit your 855 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.480 two thousandth episode and can't wait to listen to more 856 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:33.239 and more recordings. 857 00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:35.960 Do you want to do the break? Yeah, let's do 858 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.880 a quick break. We'll be right back after these very 859 00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:38.760 important messages. 860 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:44.320 Hey Carl here. You probably know text Control is a 861 00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:48.880 powerful library for document editing and PDF generation, but did 862 00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:52.079 you know they're also a strong supporter of the developer community. 863 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:54.960 It's part of their mission to build and support a 864 00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.360 strong developer community by being present, listening to users, and 865 00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:03.719 sharing no conferences across Europe and the United States. So 866 00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:07.079 if you're heading to a conference soon, check if text 867 00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:09.760 Control will be there and stop by to say hi. 868 00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:14.320 You can find their full conference calendar at dubdubdub dot 869 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:17.599 textcontrol dot com and make sure you thank them for 870 00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:19.000 supporting dot net rocks. 871 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:25.679 And we're back. It's dot net Rocks averagerd Cavill. Let's 872 00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:26.280 call Franklin. 873 00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:30.760 Hey, we're here in Bellevue recording episode two thousand with 874 00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.360 a bunch of our favorite people. 875 00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:37.719 At the party with Palermo right before. 876 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.280 The MVP summit, and speaking of m vps, I see 877 00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:42.639 one right in front of me. He's big, he's tall, 878 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.280 he's Harry, he's oddly Minnesotan. 879 00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:48.280 Oh oh yeah, he's very Minesoultan. 880 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:53.440 Don't you know it's Rocky Hello, Hello. 881 00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:55.840 Sorry, Now I have to tell a story. 882 00:43:56.559 --> 00:44:01.880 The way that Carl explained Dot Rocks to me back 883 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:06.599 in like two thousand and four was about being at 884 00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:11.480 a conference, probably at BS Live and listening to Rockford 885 00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:16.599 Laka and Billy Hollis debating the beta bits of dot 886 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:20.960 net in the speaker the conference, and he had the 887 00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:25.559 insight He's like, everybody should hear this. This is and 888 00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:27.920 that was to me, that was like the essence of 889 00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:32.840 the show is a conversation between people talking about this 890 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:36.400 problem space that we all get to hear. So you 891 00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:40.199 are essentially the original Rocker, my friend, and. 892 00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:42.519 That's because of. 893 00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:48.880 This Hello, hey, you know, and that's why that's kind 894 00:44:48.920 --> 00:44:52.039 of my comment really is is I think you know 895 00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:54.400 for all that that you're trying to be humble, and 896 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:58.599 I appreciate that the reality is that this show has 897 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:03.800 offered a rallying point overall well the entire lifetime of 898 00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:07.400 dot net, And you're right, you can't take credit for 899 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.360 your guests and what they say, but you can take 900 00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.639 credit for the fact that you created a center of 901 00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:17.440 gravity that drew in guests that wanted to have these 902 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:22.199 conversations with you guys and with each other, and its 903 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:27.119 spurs continues to this day to spur conversations in the 904 00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.880 broader industry. And really you're at the center in a 905 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.320 lot of ways of the community that centers around dot 906 00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:37.480 net and this platform, and you know so to that, 907 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:39.079 kudos and thank you both. 908 00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.840 Thank you so very much. Thank you, Rocky. Hi. 909 00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.360 I'm gel Frete, the creator of post sharp and Metalama. 910 00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:48.800 I've had the privilege of appearing on dot need Rocks 911 00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:52.880 four times, starting with episode two nine eight in December 912 00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:56.400 two and seven. Back then post Shark was a one 913 00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:00.000 man open sool project. Then I think that this episode 914 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.000 crucially contributed to poult Sharp's legitimacy. It became one of 915 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.440 the most important projects of the decade. I then turned 916 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.519 the project into a real company that put bread on 917 00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:15.800 the table of many families, and finally recently it led 918 00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:20.239 to another open sool project Metalama. I'm convinced dot net 919 00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:25.360 rocks played a key role in that. Karlyn Richard, congratulations 920 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.800 on episode two thousand and thank you. 921 00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.800 So Jeff is walking around with the microphone. If you 922 00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:34.480 got somebody else, put your hand. Oh, we have a 923 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:35.199 person here. 924 00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.039 Isaac Hey, Isaac. 925 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:45.679 Hello, Hello, I know huh, my name Isaac Levin. I've 926 00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:49.960 been on the show maybe or twice. Yeah, I'm gonna 927 00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:51.239 make you feel real bad for a second. 928 00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:53.639 So I graduated high school in two thousand and. 929 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.639 Four, and I'll say this, I've been. 930 00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:03.360 Paying attention to do that rock basically since you folks started. 931 00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:07.199 And one of the memories that I have about being 932 00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.960 somebody who's kind of been a dot net developer since 933 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:12.679 two thousand and four, right in college, Like, I got 934 00:47:12.760 --> 00:47:14.599 lucky to do some dot net stuff in my freshman 935 00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:16.559 year and I fell in love and that was it, 936 00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:18.639 and I was. 937 00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:19.079 Thinking about you. 938 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.480 Yeah, and then and then you get your heart broken 939 00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:27.880 and then you have a really nasty breakup and then 940 00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.360 you come back and you. 941 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:30.519 You know whatever. 942 00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:35.400 I remember when as somebody that had built up for 943 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:38.840 the web and jQuery shipped in dot net right for 944 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:39.960 the first time, that's right. 945 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:44.280 And I was thinking about like moments. 946 00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:48.119 In my time with dot net where I was just like, wow, okay, 947 00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:49.920 we're serious now. 948 00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:51.599 And I would like to ask you both. 949 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:55.760 You've been doing this for twenty years, what are some 950 00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:59.000 of the moments that you think about where you're like, wow, okay, 951 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:00.920 dot net is serious now. 952 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:04.960 There are so many and you can only pick one though, Well, 953 00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.519 for me it's Blazer. Sure, yeah, I mean, and I 954 00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:11.400 didn't think dot net is serious now. It was always 955 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:15.960 serious for me, but when Laser came out, my productivity 956 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:20.119 went through the roof. And then you know, Copilot on 957 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:23.400 top of Blazer. Oh my god, I can think code 958 00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:28.119 and it just happens. But there are so many points 959 00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:30.880 along the way where I felt like, oh my god, 960 00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:34.480 this is amazing. Every version of dot net, the purf 961 00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:38.880 gets better and better, the memory usage gets smaller and smaller. 962 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:41.079 And now in dot net ten, it's. 963 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:46.159 Ridiculous, like the speed and the performance and the lack 964 00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:47.960 of generations and you. 965 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:51.760 Know, keep variables and things. It's just amazing. 966 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:54.960 And so every time that there's something new like that, 967 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:57.719 I think, I am so glad. 968 00:48:58.119 --> 00:48:59.760 How many times do we say this is a great 969 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:00.639 time to be at NEP. 970 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:02.119 Yeah, a great time to be developer. 971 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:04.800 And looking back on it, they weren't always great, No, 972 00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:09.599 as great as they are now what you took it away? 973 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.920 You could have changed it to like Java rocks at 974 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:13.280 some point, right Hell no? 975 00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:16.559 Uh? You know what I felt. 976 00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:19.000 The first time I really felt like okay, dot nes 977 00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:21.440 serious business was dot net two. 978 00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:22.519 It was two thousand and five. 979 00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:26.159 Yes, like that was the one the web tooling got 980 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:28.239 that big jump up for me as. 981 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:33.400 A back end guy and an enterprise guy like I 982 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.480 was planning in. 983 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:38.480 Reboots of IIS for one point one. You had to. 984 00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:40.840 It just wasn't reliable enough. And then I ran the 985 00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:42.920 same set of tests on two and I think I 986 00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.679 was doing work for Barnes and Noble at the. 987 00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:47.920 Time, and literally like ran it through the weekend, no 988 00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:50.639 memory leaks, and I'm like, look, what the hell has happened? 989 00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:51.800 Like it just was. 990 00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.280 It had just made this junk where it's like it's 991 00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.960 a server product now, like I can expect to turn 992 00:49:58.039 --> 00:49:59.360 this on and just leave it go. 993 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:00.880 It's non oner thing. 994 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.280 And I now know, having talked to people and exactly 995 00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:09.639 why that happened. But it was a it grew up 996 00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:11.639 that day, but it took a few years to get 997 00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:14.480 to that point. There's plenty that's happened then, but at 998 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.840 that was the moment where it's like, no, god, it's 999 00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:17.960 just that grown up tool lot. 1000 00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:19.880 That's when it started. And then done at three and 1001 00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:23.039 we're like, oh my god. Right, they get hard on 1002 00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.199 it all of a sudden because of what happens over 1003 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:26.079 on the window side. 1004 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:29.280 Yeah, they Yeah, the first real shining moment of dot 1005 00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:30.559 net is version two. 1006 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:32.960 It's in two thousand. I agree with you there, Yeah, 1007 00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:33.880 that's a great question. 1008 00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:35.000 Yeah, thanks Isaac. 1009 00:50:35.079 --> 00:50:37.039 How you doing there? Carl and Richard, thank you so 1010 00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:40.599 much for all the things you've done in dot neet rocks. 1011 00:50:40.639 --> 00:50:43.639 I started listening back in two thousand and eight, and 1012 00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:46.760 I got to meet Richard in twenty ten at tech 1013 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:50.079 ed gosh when that was a thing. And then I 1014 00:50:50.599 --> 00:50:53.119 changed my career for good when I worked with you 1015 00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:56.360 guys on a little thing called speaker Idol in twenty 1016 00:50:56.440 --> 00:51:01.039 twelve and I lost it twice, but it changed my career, 1017 00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:05.719 launching me into developer advocacy and all kinds of great stuff. 1018 00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:08.360 It's been a pleasure to be one of your guests 1019 00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:11.920 several times. Thank you so much, and now now I 1020 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.679 look at so much that I'm I'm writing code live 1021 00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:17.159 on the internet for a living. That's that's a thing. 1022 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:22.360 So hey, congratulations dot net Rocks. Two thousand episodes, all 1023 00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.239 the best, and here's to the next two thousand. 1024 00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:27.880 Who else is talking to us? Yeah, we got Kevin Griffin, 1025 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:33.719 ke keV. Hey, gentlemen, how's it going? Doing well? Doing well? 1026 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:36.280 There are so many awesome people here today. 1027 00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:38.000 I just can't believe there sure are. 1028 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:41.039 All right, So I'm telling a story about how don 1029 00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:44.559 need Rocks has impacted me. Right o, great, all right, 1030 00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.320 So I'm gonna talk about the RV story, but I 1031 00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:50.360 have a little twist to mine. Okay, all right, So 1032 00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:53.000 I don't actually think I was an MVP yet, I 1033 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.599 think I would still like up and coming. You're all 1034 00:51:55.599 --> 00:52:00.760 doing the RV tour around America, and you're going into Richmond, Virginia. Yeah, 1035 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.079 and now I don't live anywhere near Richmond. I'm about 1036 00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:06.480 two hours south, but I'm like, I need to go 1037 00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:08.679 see don Ned Rocks. So I got in the car 1038 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:11.760 and drove up there. Yeah, and y'all did a podcast 1039 00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:14.840 and I don't actually remember the podcast, but what I 1040 00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:19.000 do remember is a good friend of mine, good friend 1041 00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:21.119 of yours, who probably haven't heard of in a while. 1042 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:22.440 Mister Kevin Hazard. 1043 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.599 Oh wow, sure, amazing man, great guy, says Kevin. You 1044 00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.840 need to be the ride from Richmond Don Rawley. 1045 00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:33.239 All right, so we got to tell people what that means. 1046 00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:36.800 We had a contest ride along with Carl and Richard 1047 00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.239 right yep, for one of these. 1048 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:40.559 I can't even remember which one. It was twenty ten. 1049 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:42.800 I think about twenty ten. We did ride along, all right. 1050 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:46.599 So basically we would pick somebody and somebody would raise 1051 00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:49.039 their hand and they would ride with us to the 1052 00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:51.159 next place. And I think we would put him up 1053 00:52:51.159 --> 00:52:54.559 in a hotel or maybe yeah, yeah, we take him 1054 00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:56.679 from their home, take him with us, put them up 1055 00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:59.280 for a night, have to see the second show, and 1056 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.000 then fly him home. 1057 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:02.320 Yeah, by the way, the rich Room. We had money. 1058 00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:06.960 I looked it up. The rich Rid Virginia show, Mark Karron. 1059 00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:11.480 Oh my god, yeah, all right, Mark Miller and Karen Chicati. 1060 00:53:13.159 --> 00:53:17.639 That show was way off The had zero nutritional card. 1061 00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:18.280 I don't know about that. 1062 00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:21.159 It was probably pretty interesting, but it was it was 1063 00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:22.239 definitely off the rails. 1064 00:53:22.639 --> 00:53:23.320 Oh my god. 1065 00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:27.079 So mister Kevin Hazard recommended I do the ride along. 1066 00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:29.599 Because I asked him, like, who do you think should 1067 00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:29.840 do this? 1068 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:33.159 And I said I can't do it because the day 1069 00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:37.360 after the podcast in Raleigh, I had to be in DC. 1070 00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:40.400 For a job interview. Oh no, And I remember. 1071 00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:43.480 Very specifically, Richard, you said, I got it covered. I'll 1072 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:45.079 get you in DC for your interview. 1073 00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:45.440 Nice. 1074 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:48.119 So I rode with you guys down the Raleigh did 1075 00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:51.800 the podcast. I was up at four am the next morning. 1076 00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:53.039 Like at six am flight back. 1077 00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:55.400 Yeah, but you helped me get up to d C. 1078 00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:59.199 I did the interview. I didn't get the job, which 1079 00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:00.800 is more of a blessing away. 1080 00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:03.360 You know, when we were thinking about going out of 1081 00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:06.840 dot net rocks and podcasting, Richard was going to become 1082 00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:11.039 a travel agent. Yeah, he's good at all those things. 1083 00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:13.800 But it's one of those moments. It's like core memory. 1084 00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:16.239 And I appreciate you guys so much because you're just 1085 00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:18.480 good guys. Thank you, Fred, No matter what these other 1086 00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:20.159 folks say, I love it. 1087 00:54:21.559 --> 00:54:21.800 Thanks. 1088 00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:28.239 Hey, So Mark Brown here, I've been listening to dot 1089 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:31.320 net Rocks for I don't know how many years it's been. 1090 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:34.119 It's been a long time. What I do know is 1091 00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.519 that I had a lot more hair when I first 1092 00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:39.000 started listening to dot net rocks than I do now. 1093 00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:41.440 There's no relation between the two. 1094 00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.599 Okay, I see another familiar face walking to the microphone. 1095 00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:51.079 We've got Chris. As we just talked, it's been hours. 1096 00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:54.440 I think it's been with yourself. We recently. Well, we're 1097 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:56.599 on the next episode coming, I believe we are. Yeah, 1098 00:54:56.840 --> 00:54:59.559 it was, it's going to be in the past, in 1099 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:00.679 the past, us at present. 1100 00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.960 Yeah, so time shifting. 1101 00:55:03.559 --> 00:55:07.920 Time shifting is a thing so out of college in 1102 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:11.280 the in my field doing dot net. One of the 1103 00:55:11.320 --> 00:55:17.360 most foundational things for me came from your show listening 1104 00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:21.599 to podcasts on my zoom link when we guys, when 1105 00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:26.760 you guys talked about link and diving into Lincoln dot net, right, 1106 00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:29.800 that like kind of broke my brain a little bit, 1107 00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:33.280 like applying all the little Unix principles of small tools, 1108 00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:37.000 pipelining them together, getting into predicates and and and like 1109 00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:42.360 I hated the the wordy syntax, give me method syntax 1110 00:55:42.400 --> 00:55:46.519 and method chaining. But lambda's, like all the conversations about 1111 00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:47.480 that on the show just. 1112 00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:49.719 Going, It took me a while to wrap my mind 1113 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.800 around lambda's and stuff. But once in a while, but yeah, 1114 00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:55.039 it was like, I would never do it any other way. 1115 00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:56.920 It was one of the luxuries of the show was 1116 00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.280 we could get the Eric Myers right, like the minds 1117 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:04.800 that created the product. Yeah, and be the every man 1118 00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:06.199 who's like, explain. 1119 00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.800 This to me again, because if I don't understand it, 1120 00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:09.039 I can't imagine a listener. 1121 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:12.679 And nowadays we got like Steven Tobinhnsleman doing the let's 1122 00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:14.320 recreate it with three lights of coat. 1123 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:19.159 Yeah, well, listen, nobody understands Steven cow not even Steven 1124 00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:20.400 to Like that's not a thing. 1125 00:56:20.599 --> 00:56:23.719 Yeah, that man is an alien. I love him. He 1126 00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:27.559 needs a different realm from the rest of us. Realm, well, 1127 00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:28.920 mental realm. 1128 00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:32.119 I just clear my schedule to read his bog post 1129 00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:34.639 only like three hundred pages something like that. It's like 1130 00:56:34.639 --> 00:56:36.559 you just have to take a weekend and you got 1131 00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:37.159 a summary. 1132 00:56:37.239 --> 00:56:40.639 I just want a summary. Okay, better for our summary. Okay, 1133 00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:41.440 thank you. 1134 00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:43.519 So just feed it in the co pilot. You might 1135 00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:45.159 have heard about it this week and ask it for 1136 00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:46.480 a summary. 1137 00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:49.519 Yeah, that no easy way to go about that, But yeah, 1138 00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:50.639 I appreciate that. 1139 00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:54.599 But there's been so many of those little things like I, 1140 00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.079 you know, when you're not always in meetups, or you're 1141 00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:01.239 in smaller towns, or you're not subscribing the magazines, are 1142 00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:04.320 reading blogs, and it's like, here's your one form of 1143 00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:07.519 media that you download on your little app and you 1144 00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:11.840 listen to your friends talk about the latest stuff like 1145 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:13.920 this is where you learn the cutting edge. 1146 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:14.440 Yeah. 1147 00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:17.280 Yeah, and that's where I was in my foundational parts 1148 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:17.880 of my career. 1149 00:57:18.599 --> 00:57:21.000 Now, I just got to tell you from my perspective, 1150 00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:23.320 I started as a basic programmer, right. 1151 00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.679 I started programming in second grade in the mid eighties. Okay, 1152 00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:29.199 second grade in the eighties. So I've been doing this 1153 00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:30.079 forty years. 1154 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:33.000 Great, and you've got a few years on me in 1155 00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:33.679 terms of that. 1156 00:57:33.800 --> 00:57:36.840 But but what I'm saying is being the host, of 1157 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:40.679 being an interested host on a podcast where I get 1158 00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:43.400 to interview these guys and ask the dumb questions. 1159 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.039 I have learned so much. 1160 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:49.159 Is it like asking the dumb question? 1161 00:57:49.400 --> 00:57:52.360 No? No, not at all, because a dumb question has 1162 00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:53.039 just come to it. 1163 00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:56.880 Yes, and it's n'stural. It's just a gift. 1164 00:57:57.440 --> 00:57:59.920 It's a gift to ask dumb. 1165 00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:04.079 You are very gifted, sir, the gift of I say 1166 00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:05.719 about all of that, very gifted. 1167 00:58:05.880 --> 00:58:06.599 Yes I do. 1168 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.440 No, I have gift all over the floor. 1169 00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:13.960 I am not embarrassed asked a question because first of all, hey, 1170 00:58:13.960 --> 00:58:16.119 I'm going to get an answer that I understand. 1171 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:17.159 They're on your show. 1172 00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:21.480 Yeah, And second of all, there's probably other people out 1173 00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:24.880 there that don't have no idea that need to know, right, 1174 00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:28.039 and so no I had, I never has offer. 1175 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:32.000 An amazing service like I love everything about everything you 1176 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:35.840 guys do, and uh to the next two thousand Thanks. 1177 00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:39.599 Yeah, thanks Chris. That's a lot of obligation, man, I 1178 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:42.079 know I'm really stressed. 1179 00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:43.159 Fresher. 1180 00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:47.360 Hey, Colin Richard, it's Martin Woodwould here. I don't want 1181 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:49.880 to bug you anything, but just want to say thanks 1182 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.840 for everything you both do behind the scenes, raising people 1183 00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.239 up across the community. As you both know, I've been 1184 00:58:57.239 --> 00:58:59.760 a listener since back in the days where you it's 1185 00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:04.239 a bit episodes on CDs. Yet somehow you both stay 1186 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:06.280 up to date with the latest technology and you help 1187 00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:10.719 us ride along in your wake. Plus obviously Richard's geek outs, 1188 00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:13.599 so like this degree level of information that's packaged up 1189 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:17.239 into sort of ted talk levels approachability. Love it anyway, 1190 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.000 The dotnet community owes you a ton and many of 1191 00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:22.239 us owe you as individuals, so the help you've given 1192 00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.679 us in our careers, so thank you. 1193 00:59:25.400 --> 00:59:29.280 All Right, we have Oh my gosh, it's Jay. He's coming, Harris, 1194 00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:31.159 he's coming to the Hasay. 1195 00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:33.760 Oh you know, buddy, I'm doing a Ryan. How are 1196 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:36.679 both you? We're good, not bad. Good to see. 1197 00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:42.000 You doing great. So I sort of have a question 1198 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:44.480 for both of you as well. Okay, okay, what is 1199 00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:48.199 it like for both of you effectively being icons and 1200 00:59:48.519 --> 00:59:51.519 celebrity in the industry and. 1201 00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.239 Having kicked off started. 1202 00:59:55.960 --> 00:59:59.800 Had such a major influence on so many of even 1203 00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:02.000 the developers that are here in this room. I mean, 1204 01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:06.599 for me personally, the two of you and this show 1205 01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:09.679 has had a tremendous impact on even in my career. 1206 01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:12.400 I remember, oh wow, back in. 1207 01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:16.280 Back in the early two thousands, I was working for 1208 01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:21.199 an insurance company in Syracuse, New York, an insurance company 1209 01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:23.079 that was headquartered out of Manhattan. 1210 01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.840 Oh wow. 1211 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.880 And of course two thousand and one hit and the 1212 01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:30.280 insurance companies, especially the ones based out of New York, 1213 01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:31.960 all got significantly impacted. 1214 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:33.679 Yeah, yeah, and. 1215 01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:36.480 Slightly next week's show man, Like, I don't know how 1216 01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:37.400 I'm going to talk about this. 1217 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.760 But yeah, at the end of two thousand and two, 1218 01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:44.519 that company laid off something like twenty percent of its 1219 01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:46.280 IT department, me included. 1220 01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:49.800 And from the impact of that downturn. 1221 01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:54.320 I was fifty weeks five zero weeks unemployed, trying to 1222 01:00:54.360 --> 01:00:58.519 find a new gig, and so so not many years 1223 01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:00.599 after that, I decided, you know, I'm never going to 1224 01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:02.039 go through that again. I'm never going to have a 1225 01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:04.880 time in my career where I'm unemployed that long, where 1226 01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:10.280 I'm just another faceless person, another rank and file COG. 1227 01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:13.199 And started listening. 1228 01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:18.159 To a lot of these podcasts, especially yours, you know, 1229 01:01:18.199 --> 01:01:20.760 and and from there I really improved my craft a lot. 1230 01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:26.679 Over time, some others started influencing me to get involved 1231 01:01:26.719 --> 01:01:29.840 in the community and in local dot net groups in Michigan. 1232 01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:35.760 I was in Michigan at the time, and and being 1233 01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:39.880 so involved in in the Midwest, in that early emerging 1234 01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:44.159 Midwest community back then. The first conference I ever spoke 1235 01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:47.239 at was in code Mash in two thousand and nine, 1236 01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:51.559 which I believe is also your first Code Mash in Sanick, 1237 01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:55.159 but a great at the same show, so much fun, 1238 01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:58.280 that was the most fun, so much fun, and for 1239 01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.599 me that was like it of almost a coming of 1240 01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:06.079 age moment for me because here I am speaking at 1241 01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:08.320 my first conference and here are the two of you 1242 01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:11.320 icons in the industry already by that point. 1243 01:02:11.239 --> 01:02:16.920 Stop with that, just a couple of dudes. I do 1244 01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:22.559 not feel like my wife doesn't say what with. 1245 01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:24.880 The Carl Franklin like for breakfast? 1246 01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:27.480 That does not happen in my life. 1247 01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.000 So I do not feel like. 1248 01:02:29.119 --> 01:02:31.119 The years I've known you, now I know that you're 1249 01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:33.519 just two more guys that put your pants on one 1250 01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:34.480 leg and a time. 1251 01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:35.119 Just like I do. 1252 01:02:35.440 --> 01:02:37.519 We make the automatic pants thing, but that's I'm that 1253 01:02:37.639 --> 01:02:41.800 guy how we make hit records, right. 1254 01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:43.199 H. 1255 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:48.920 I get emails about from people struggling in their careers, 1256 01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:51.639 and you try to answer them meaningfully because it's clearly 1257 01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:52.360 important to them. 1258 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:55.000 Yeah, I feel that way. That's Sundays for me. 1259 01:02:55.880 --> 01:03:00.800 I uh, I think a lot about are we helping 1260 01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:03.199 people when they need help, especially the ones that are employed. 1261 01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:06.000 Like it's a tough time right now, and so you know, 1262 01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:11.719 the content shape concerned about that. Most of the time 1263 01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:13.320 when you're at a conference, you're hanging around with folks 1264 01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:15.199 who know you, and that's all well and fine. Once 1265 01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:18.880 in a while, you get someone who's trapped in the 1266 01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:21.119 mythology and we're just going to try and get a 1267 01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:24.039 picture with you, and they're shaking, and that's odd, but 1268 01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:27.639 you do your best to be kind, right, and you know, 1269 01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:29.519 if they want to know you better, they will, like 1270 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:30.280 you'll figure that out. 1271 01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:32.480 It happens all the time. But sometimes that doesn't. 1272 01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:34.320 Most of these people just lacked. 1273 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.599 Experience in the confidence, you know, seek them a shot 1274 01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:37.239 of confidence. 1275 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:40.480 You know, you can do this. You were great about this. 1276 01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:41.920 One of my neighbors. 1277 01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:44.840 You were the young guy that lived down there that 1278 01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:48.559 I'd known his entire life, and then he found the podcast. Also, 1279 01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:52.880 you can't talk to us anymore, yeah, fifteen right, And 1280 01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:56.360 his reaction was, let's send him one of every piece 1281 01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:59.039 of swag, like just get them all the things, like 1282 01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:01.880 just sort of make it a little silly, okay, right, 1283 01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:05.400 And it was effective, Like it was just hot, try 1284 01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:08.039 and break the mythology up a bit, because in the end, 1285 01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:10.119 you're just trying to make a thing right, right and 1286 01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:12.039 help people wherever you can, right. 1287 01:04:12.199 --> 01:04:14.519 There's nothing more magical than that. 1288 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:16.679 But it's really good to hear we helped you. 1289 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:21.039 Yeah, yeah, I appreciate everything that both of you for 1290 01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:21.599 a long time. 1291 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:23.239 Jay, You've been through some stuff. 1292 01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:26.239 It's like you've always thought about you through all of that, 1293 01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:27.920 and you made good things along the way. 1294 01:04:27.960 --> 01:04:31.039 Friend, like it's awesome. Yeah, thank you, Yeah, thank you. Good. 1295 01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:33.960 I enjoy being a part of it, and certainly enjoy 1296 01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:36.039 having come to known. 1297 01:04:36.039 --> 01:04:38.239 Both of you over these years as well. Thanks. I 1298 01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:42.400 appreciate it. Excellent, well, thank you, awesome, Thanks very much. 1299 01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:43.079 Hi. 1300 01:04:43.159 --> 01:04:45.360 This is phill Hack and I've been a long time 1301 01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:47.480 listener to dot net Rock. So I can't tell you 1302 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:50.360 how long did I work on the hite kk problem 1303 01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:53.480 in the late nineties. I sure did. I was working 1304 01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:57.800 with the ASP Classic AFP before the dot net Moniker. 1305 01:04:58.039 --> 01:05:01.239 I think back then your podcast was just called Rocks. 1306 01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.760 And how's your podcast affected my career? It's been great. 1307 01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.719 I think I've been on it multiple times. I'm still 1308 01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:11.920 waiting for my five timer jacket, but it's been a 1309 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.000 great way to promote the products that I've worked on, 1310 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:18.920 the frameworks and all that, and to uh, you know, 1311 01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:22.159 need a lot of really great other other speakers and 1312 01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:27.320 technologists and whatnot. So yeah, thank you, and keep going. 1313 01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:32.519 Joe Pennie, you can. 1314 01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:35.679 We talk all the top. 1315 01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:36.880 We don't get to see each other. 1316 01:05:38.239 --> 01:05:41.199 Flash and flash, And I wore my Space shirt for you. 1317 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:42.920 I love that I've got that shirt. This is a 1318 01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:45.039 This is Hank Green's Galilean Moon. 1319 01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.360 It brought mine, all right. 1320 01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:50.719 Look you mind you when you said Space, I was 1321 01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:53.599 actually thinking it was a grateful Dead show because it 1322 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:54.639 kind of does look. 1323 01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.760 Like kind of level ties. 1324 01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:00.559 You must be high to wear this shirt. 1325 01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:00.840 Yeah. 1326 01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:07.159 Yeah, Galiley and moonshirt talking Space. Man, that's so cool. 1327 01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.519 What's new, Joe? Yeah? What's you working on? Oh man? 1328 01:06:11.239 --> 01:06:15.159 What's not new? I'm making Windows apps. I made a 1329 01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:21.639 new Windows app a week ago. It's called Trouser. Trouser Trouser. 1330 01:06:21.840 --> 01:06:23.880 You put on your pants with both legs the same time. 1331 01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:24.559 Is that what it done? 1332 01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:28.239 That's no, it's a it's a tray browser, so you 1333 01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:30.239 you have a little mini browser in your tray if 1334 01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:32.000 you ever want to like pop up a website real 1335 01:06:32.039 --> 01:06:34.920 quick while your your build is compiling. I know Carl's 1336 01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:36.960 got a pretty quick computer, so it probably doesn't wait 1337 01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:37.480 very long. 1338 01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:40.440 What is this build compiling? Yeah? 1339 01:06:40.559 --> 01:06:41.000 Oh sorry? 1340 01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.719 When when opus is thinking, you know, when it's flipperty. 1341 01:06:44.920 --> 01:06:48.239 Somebody that's build new compile ways. 1342 01:06:48.039 --> 01:06:50.679 Exactly exactly right. 1343 01:06:50.760 --> 01:06:54.280 Can you run all tests and fix any errors when 1344 01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:58.599 it's doing that step? Yeah, yeah, that's when I pop 1345 01:06:58.679 --> 01:07:01.119 up the trouser and sits there for a little bit 1346 01:07:01.239 --> 01:07:03.239 and I'm like okay, okay, and then I dump. 1347 01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:06.360 Yeah that's one thing. Well we'll see. 1348 01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:10.280 I'm only playing games on it, but okay, Like you know, 1349 01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:12.960 they there's like a web version of the classic Windows 1350 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:17.480 games mind Sweeper. Yeah, there's very faithful reproductions that you 1351 01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:18.639 could get online. 1352 01:07:18.960 --> 01:07:21.440 Said all those games were about teaching people how to 1353 01:07:21.559 --> 01:07:23.960 use a mouse, right, yeah, like at they were all 1354 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:26.440 three one games and that was like lots of people 1355 01:07:26.440 --> 01:07:28.000 who learned to use a mouse, So let's give them 1356 01:07:28.039 --> 01:07:29.639 games where they need to learning to use the mouse. 1357 01:07:29.719 --> 01:07:33.039 Yeah, And it's uh like right click, left click, you 1358 01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:34.320 know the ones to two is the puzzles. 1359 01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:37.119 It's great, it's great. Yeah, So that's what's new with me. 1360 01:07:37.559 --> 01:07:39.960 That's not the only thing that's come on. 1361 01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:40.880 I'm pretty sure. 1362 01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:45.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is I didn't bring a musical instrument, but. 1363 01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:47.599 Still your time. 1364 01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:50.239 So, uh, what's. 1365 01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:53.480 The last Windows app that you played around with that 1366 01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:55.320 you were like, oh, yeah. 1367 01:07:56.840 --> 01:07:58.440 Wrote Yeah, what's the last one you wrote? 1368 01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:00.239 I mean I wow. 1369 01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:04.719 Wow, yeah, okay, well, no, that's not a Windows app. 1370 01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:07.360 Most of the stuff I'm making right now is literally 1371 01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:12.039 command line command line as Yeah, I guess it is 1372 01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:14.639 norminally Windows. I'm not just using the goo anymore. Like, 1373 01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:16.560 when's the last time I needed to make a guy? 1374 01:08:16.600 --> 01:08:17.640 Oh it's been a while? 1375 01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:22.199 Sure, sure, sure, sure, yeah, what's the guy? I guess 1376 01:08:22.239 --> 01:08:25.439 that's one is cli? Sure, that's a Windows that's fair. 1377 01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:27.960 And then's a lot of I do a lot of 1378 01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:31.119 console apps, but not so many Windows apps anymore. 1379 01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:35.479 Uh, let's see Windows app. 1380 01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:38.079 Geez, I can't remember, but I mean I use Windows 1381 01:08:38.119 --> 01:08:39.319 apps all the time. 1382 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:42.199 I use audio digital audio. 1383 01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:47.920 Workstations like Fender Studio Pro. I use obviously, Visual Studio 1384 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:51.520 I use all the time. There's a couple other ones 1385 01:08:51.760 --> 01:08:52.960 that are more specialized. 1386 01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:56.159 But I literally tinkered with a piece of code before 1387 01:08:56.199 --> 01:08:59.000 I came down here. And it's to remotely mute my 1388 01:08:59.079 --> 01:09:04.720 wife's machine. She loves on Spotify and then leaving, and 1389 01:09:04.840 --> 01:09:07.239 I'm not going to the other room to turn that off. 1390 01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:11.680 So I've got a script to that machine and mutes that. 1391 01:09:11.960 --> 01:09:16.640 This is the benefit to being a programmer year fifty. 1392 01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:18.600 I like that. 1393 01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:23.479 All I want is some quiet? Can I get some quiet? 1394 01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:25.159 Is that open source? You gotta open source? 1395 01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:26.800 Actually, sha, you share that one out. 1396 01:09:26.840 --> 01:09:29.359 It's good to be popular. Yeah, that would work. That 1397 01:09:29.359 --> 01:09:31.079 would work. I guess that counts as a Windows app. 1398 01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:31.920 I mean, why not. 1399 01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:34.359 So you've been on the show and how many times 1400 01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:34.880 I don't. 1401 01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:35.720 Know, four times? 1402 01:09:36.039 --> 01:09:40.000 Yeah, talking Windows stuff local AI WPS. 1403 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.640 Obviously been listening for a long time. You've been listening to. 1404 01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:46.760 The Oh, yeah, for a long time. I don't see. 1405 01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:48.399 This is where I'm like, oh, it's been so long, 1406 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:51.359 ten years. 1407 01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:52.000 It's a long time. 1408 01:09:52.279 --> 01:09:53.319 Yeah, it's a long time for me. 1409 01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:55.560 I'm on the younger side of things looking around here, 1410 01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:58.479 which is uh, you know, good and bad? 1411 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:00.439 You know, why not? Yeah? 1412 01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.960 So I wish I was as young as you exactly. 1413 01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:04.239 Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take up. 1414 01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:06.840 My doctor says I shouldn't get any older. So I'm 1415 01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:09.640 doing all right, good everything. I can. You know how 1416 01:10:09.680 --> 01:10:11.800 it goes to stay as young as I can. 1417 01:10:12.720 --> 01:10:15.039 Yeah, I can't stay young, but I could stay childish. 1418 01:10:15.119 --> 01:10:15.880 I know how to do that. 1419 01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:19.439 That's got to help. That's got to do something. 1420 01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:20.439 Yeah, very good. 1421 01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:24.199 Yeah, so quick, real quick, what are you working on 1422 01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:26.760 now that we do another show, brother, Yeah, when do we. 1423 01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:27.560 Get on show? 1424 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.359 I don't know if I can say what I'm doing 1425 01:10:29.399 --> 01:10:31.199 on I don't want to get attacked by all these 1426 01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:35.039 folks here. I'm building a vibe coding a Ruby on 1427 01:10:35.239 --> 01:10:40.720 rails app. Oh, I know, I know it's not done that. 1428 01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:42.199 I know old school. 1429 01:10:42.199 --> 01:10:46.199 It's it's crazy how well, because they were so focused 1430 01:10:46.239 --> 01:10:49.359 on like naming things, yeah, and calling things is the 1431 01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:52.199 right name, and it's all very like language driven. 1432 01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:54.000 And the Ruby rail set is huge, Like I think 1433 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:56.760 that's it import Why do we see these models so 1434 01:10:56.840 --> 01:11:00.720 good at Python? Yeah, these older languages have such a 1435 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:03.760 body of work that the tools are well trained. 1436 01:11:03.720 --> 01:11:06.920 And it's huge apps that are open source, so it 1437 01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:08.760 does a really good job of figuring out how to 1438 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:11.399 do it. But I will say, I don't write any Ruby. 1439 01:11:11.680 --> 01:11:14.199 I don't want to write any Ruby. I don't like 1440 01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:18.359 looking at it. It's fine, but I'm living done that 1441 01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:21.039 every day. But yeah, so I'm trying to the app 1442 01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:22.640 I'm trying to build is going to be more of 1443 01:11:22.680 --> 01:11:26.239 like a product style thing. So the thing the thought 1444 01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:30.399 process is AI build stuff so fast that you got 1445 01:11:30.439 --> 01:11:32.560 to make sure you know what you're building. 1446 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:35.720 Yeah, and why You're exactly right. Speed of code is 1447 01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:38.119 no longer the issue. Right, speed of plan is. 1448 01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:40.920 The exactly So I'm trying to make some tools to 1449 01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:43.119 be able to story map and say like, okay, I 1450 01:11:43.159 --> 01:11:45.760 need to get these ideas out of my head like 1451 01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:48.479 in a map. Ye, put them in cards and order 1452 01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:50.439 them and maybe. 1453 01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:52.520 You don't have to just write it down in the 1454 01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:54.479 notebook and let it go. Now, now you can feed 1455 01:11:54.520 --> 01:11:57.840 it to a machine to get some prototypes, well, you know, 1456 01:11:58.039 --> 01:11:59.920 and and see if it should go further. 1457 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.479 It does make sense to you, like before that even 1458 01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:05.840 I made it. I made a skill for this, so 1459 01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:08.840 I don't know I made a skill for the ski. 1460 01:12:09.359 --> 01:12:09.600 Yeah. 1461 01:12:09.640 --> 01:12:12.800 So it's my app is called product map. Product maps 1462 01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:15.159 like product product, you know, like rubber ducking. You know, 1463 01:12:15.279 --> 01:12:18.119 you talk to the rubber duck. And so there's a skill. 1464 01:12:18.199 --> 01:12:21.359 So I can tell the agent to hey, here's this skill, 1465 01:12:22.399 --> 01:12:25.800 get in here, get in my plan with me, read 1466 01:12:25.880 --> 01:12:28.359 it and start figuring out like hey, where are the gaps? 1467 01:12:28.359 --> 01:12:30.560 Like what doesn't make sense? Because it's so easy to 1468 01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:33.239 write so code and then you'd be like you type 1469 01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:35.479 something to a you know, agent, and it sits there 1470 01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:37.479 and it spins and it spins and you spend a 1471 01:12:37.479 --> 01:12:39.600 lot of bit and you have this whole app and 1472 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:42.800 then it's like, oh, I didn't understand your first prompt, 1473 01:12:42.960 --> 01:12:46.880 you know, like there's a misunderstanding from the very beginning. Yeah, 1474 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:49.359 at an enterprise, that's like an expensive thing. But as 1475 01:12:49.359 --> 01:12:52.039 individuals we could just make software so fast now, so 1476 01:12:52.119 --> 01:12:53.960 I wanted to make a tool to slow myself down 1477 01:12:54.239 --> 01:12:57.000 and help myself. So it's like, okay, now we know 1478 01:12:57.079 --> 01:12:59.479 we're doing unleash the hounds right. 1479 01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:02.279 Smart duck thing. It's not enough to talk to the duck. 1480 01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:04.159 You got to talk to the duck the right way. 1481 01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:04.920 A professional duck. 1482 01:13:05.039 --> 01:13:08.279 Yeah, that's serious. 1483 01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:10.880 Serious duck. So that's what I've been working on. Yeah, 1484 01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:11.399 but very cool. 1485 01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:16.239 Let me know when it's time for show. Yeah, thanks 1486 01:13:16.279 --> 01:13:18.359 for all right. 1487 01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:22.239 Hey friends, it's Scott Hanselman. I started my podcast, hansel 1488 01:13:22.319 --> 01:13:27.439 Minutes because I was teasing Carl Franklin about podcasting and 1489 01:13:27.479 --> 01:13:31.000 I said podcasting sucks, and he said, well, you think 1490 01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:33.840 it's so easy, you should try it yourself. So then 1491 01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:37.079 January eleventh, two thousand and six, I started episode one 1492 01:13:37.119 --> 01:13:40.199 of hansel Minutes and it's come up on one thousand 1493 01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:44.159 and thirty eight. Episodes, which is not two thousand. Carl's 1494 01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:46.439 gotta do two thousand. I'm going to catch up. That's 1495 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:49.239 a whole thing now. But yeah, I've been listening to 1496 01:13:49.279 --> 01:13:53.279 dot net rock since the beginning in Carl and Richard 1497 01:13:53.399 --> 01:13:57.399 are burned into my brain. We've been listening so long. 1498 01:13:57.479 --> 01:14:01.720 Congratulations on two thousand episodisodes. And uh, yeah, I did 1499 01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:03.560 work on the Y two K problem. I was in 1500 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:07.399 a bank, and I was in a bank in New 1501 01:14:07.479 --> 01:14:09.960 Orleans trying to keep the bank online. As we jumped 1502 01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:12.720 over to the year two thousand. 1503 01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:14.960 And it looks like Ralph is up with his keyboard. 1504 01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:15.800 Ralph coming up here. 1505 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:18.239 We got more last one going on over here. So 1506 01:14:18.600 --> 01:14:21.199 here's the thing for me that net rocks. There was 1507 01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:25.000 a music component, yeah, always, you know, so like, where 1508 01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:28.399 is it now? The music is just us, We're you 1509 01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:31.199 guys are the music right now? Everyone's just talking, right. 1510 01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:33.960 I even just just in case, I brought my portable. 1511 01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.159 I'm like, maybe i'll plug in, I'll jam with Carl. 1512 01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:38.800 So jam with Carl. 1513 01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:42.439 Say that, because yeah, the first time I met you 1514 01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:43.199 was at a jam. 1515 01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:44.640 The first time I met you was at a jam 1516 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:46.119 session at a tech end. I think it was a 1517 01:14:46.359 --> 01:14:49.760 deckhead tech ad Orlando tech ed Atlanta. 1518 01:14:49.399 --> 01:14:52.119 In ninety eight New Orleans, and I remember it was 1519 01:14:52.119 --> 01:14:54.159 a very a bit of a sad tech aad because 1520 01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:57.760 they had all these horns over there. It's like they 1521 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.199 just put instruments just for the sake of it, and 1522 01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:02.319 it's like, no one's playing the horns. Well, nobody wants 1523 01:15:02.319 --> 01:15:04.199 to put their mouths on these things, right. 1524 01:15:04.399 --> 01:15:06.800 And by the way, Ralph is a great. 1525 01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.159 Keyboard player, great piano player. He's not just like a 1526 01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:11.159 dinky dinky dink. 1527 01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.720 He's a pro. So it was a pleasure to play 1528 01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:15.119 with Rob. 1529 01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:17.880 I'm pro is so far that I'm not making Mick 1530 01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:20.279 Jagger money, so i still have a day job, you know. 1531 01:15:20.359 --> 01:15:21.239 So that's okay. 1532 01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:25.079 Enough speaking of the Mick Jagger money. 1533 01:15:25.279 --> 01:15:27.479 But if you remember, and I remember, because Carl was 1534 01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:30.520 like one of my best guests. I was trying to 1535 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:33.039 host it, keep it alive, and Kyl would show up 1536 01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:35.680 every night and he'd play, and you're a trooper, you'd 1537 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:38.680 play whatever the heck people asked for. Oh, they're playing 1538 01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:40.720 this song and they're like, the bass player has no 1539 01:15:40.760 --> 01:15:41.520 idea what he's doing. 1540 01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:43.359 Carl's playing along with it. 1541 01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:54.560 To the bass player. So bass player count as sad. 1542 01:15:56.159 --> 01:15:59.079 You realize that when you're leading an improv band, you know, 1543 01:15:59.199 --> 01:16:02.079 that's how you learn best prompting skills. Yeah, there's no 1544 01:16:02.079 --> 01:16:06.039 coincidence behind it. So in nineteen ninety seven, Microsoft did 1545 01:16:06.079 --> 01:16:06.560 a good thing. 1546 01:16:06.920 --> 01:16:07.239 All of a. 1547 01:16:07.239 --> 01:16:10.359 Sudden, they gave it was a professional guy to run 1548 01:16:10.399 --> 01:16:12.359 the show, a professional lead. 1549 01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.359 Because I company asked me, Ralph, would you like to 1550 01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:15.800 lead it? 1551 01:16:15.840 --> 01:16:18.479 I'm like, yeah, but unless you're paying me Mick Jaggert money, 1552 01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:20.680 I can't do that. So they got a guy who 1553 01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:23.640 was an actual musician, Deems Deems take a walk. He 1554 01:16:23.720 --> 01:16:26.760 brought him in. He got playing, and I remember because 1555 01:16:26.800 --> 01:16:28.880 I went that night. It was at the Bonaventure on 1556 01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:30.079 Top and you. 1557 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:31.680 Were up there and you were ecstatic. 1558 01:16:32.479 --> 01:16:34.479 This guy was like it was like a kid in 1559 01:16:34.520 --> 01:16:37.279 the candy store. I remember your face. You were so bright. 1560 01:16:37.359 --> 01:16:40.000 You were like yeah wow, and like I break a 1561 01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:41.119 string and the guy's. 1562 01:16:40.880 --> 01:16:44.880 Like yeah, it's like man, it's like a guitar. 1563 01:16:44.960 --> 01:16:48.079 Take it just hands you another guitars like ready to go. 1564 01:16:48.159 --> 01:16:49.000 It's like whoa. 1565 01:16:49.640 --> 01:16:52.279 And I swear you were just like so into it. 1566 01:16:52.319 --> 01:16:54.239 I had so much fun sessions. 1567 01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:57.079 Whatever that did, I think it inspired you more because 1568 01:16:57.079 --> 01:16:58.800 you ended up coming up with some music you gave me. 1569 01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:00.560 I remember you gave me a copy of your album 1570 01:17:00.560 --> 01:17:01.880 back in the day. You have like a CD. 1571 01:17:02.359 --> 01:17:05.880 Back then we gave each other CDs. Is listen to 1572 01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:06.399 my CD? 1573 01:17:06.600 --> 01:17:08.840 You have that over here, which now give somebody a CD. 1574 01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:09.760 They're like, what is that. 1575 01:17:11.720 --> 01:17:16.039 Going to do CD? Here's a by CD. Was great? 1576 01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:18.199 That was the inspiration. And I remember you did the 1577 01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:20.600 podcast you were right, one of the very first few ones. 1578 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:23.439 It inspired me later on to do one also a 1579 01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:26.079 cloud talk show one We're not as good as yours. 1580 01:17:26.119 --> 01:17:31.279 But the key though was sharing with the community. This 1581 01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:34.399 is the biggest impact that I've seen you guys do. 1582 01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:37.039 And when Rocky and all the rest talk about this, 1583 01:17:37.119 --> 01:17:41.399 they're not kidding, right. It's like there's people that have 1584 01:17:41.520 --> 01:17:43.960 not even heard, we haven't even heard from that have 1585 01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:47.520 been inspired. For every one person that you hear being 1586 01:17:47.560 --> 01:17:52.119 inspired today, multiply that by ten, maybe ten thousand. I'm 1587 01:17:52.159 --> 01:17:56.479 pretty sure you guys are out there. So we're so 1588 01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:58.520 we're so sad there's no music here, but I'm so 1589 01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:02.159 happy you guys are still doing. 1590 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:04.159 This and I look forward to two thousand more shows. 1591 01:18:04.159 --> 01:18:06.079 All right, give us a little number here. I'm gonna 1592 01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:08.520 I gotta hold on to the micro and a keyboard here. 1593 01:18:09.279 --> 01:18:28.920 All right, here we go. It's like, uh ll among 1594 01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:29.920 on this morning. 1595 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:30.840 Then I got. 1596 01:18:30.840 --> 01:18:38.399 Myself the fel myself. 1597 01:18:41.880 --> 01:18:48.600 The future is uncertain then and it's always new. Then 1598 01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:57.239 baby then roll then roll baby and roumble. 1599 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:02.239 Oh not long? 1600 01:19:09.039 --> 01:19:09.439 Awesome. 1601 01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.680 Yeah that's pretty good. 1602 01:19:16.399 --> 01:19:19.279 And that's only like what in octave and a half too? 1603 01:19:19.399 --> 01:19:23.119 I was well sor I just played it and see oops. 1604 01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:25.800 No, no, no, but the keyboards like three octave. 1605 01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:30.479 Or something right one two? Yeah, that's difficult, and you 1606 01:19:30.520 --> 01:19:33.840 pulled it off. Yeah, I know you never drap. That 1607 01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:34.439 was awesome. 1608 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:37.720 I'm sewn wilderm. I've been listening to the podcast since 1609 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:40.560 the early days. I think it was the early two thousands. Actually, 1610 01:19:41.439 --> 01:19:43.680 I did work for a y two K company. Actually 1611 01:19:44.399 --> 01:19:47.399 they did s n MP audits to find y two 1612 01:19:47.439 --> 01:19:51.039 k problems. As soon as two thousand world around, they 1613 01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:53.119 were out of business and I was out of a job, 1614 01:19:53.319 --> 01:19:56.880 go figure. Early on, I listened to dot net Rocks 1615 01:19:56.880 --> 01:19:58.880 to hear about what was new in dot net, because 1616 01:19:58.920 --> 01:20:01.920 those were the early days of one O Beana and 1617 01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:05.880 eventually one one over the years, I've been invited on 1618 01:20:05.920 --> 01:20:10.439 the podcast seventeen times. Carl and Richard have been incredibly 1619 01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:12.840 kind and generous with their time, and it's helped my 1620 01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:16.880 career tremendously. Twenty years on, it's still worth listening to 1621 01:20:16.920 --> 01:20:17.840 every episode. 1622 01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:18.800 Yeah, let's. 1623 01:20:20.239 --> 01:20:20.279 Go. 1624 01:20:20.960 --> 01:20:25.640 We have Dan Schroeder, Dan a man, don't I don't 1625 01:20:25.640 --> 01:20:26.720 know how I'm gonna follow that. 1626 01:20:26.720 --> 01:20:29.039 That was that was pretty amazing. 1627 01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:30.960 And we want more people too, So line up. 1628 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:31.960 Yeah. 1629 01:20:32.039 --> 01:20:34.399 No, I just wanted to say I've been I know 1630 01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:36.199 a lot of people have listened to your podcast for 1631 01:20:36.399 --> 01:20:37.479 twenty plus years. 1632 01:20:37.560 --> 01:20:38.000 Yeah. 1633 01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:41.079 I didn't start listening to any podcasts until about three 1634 01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:44.399 years ago, all right, but now your guys' podcast is 1635 01:20:44.439 --> 01:20:46.840 part of my weekly routine along with the Azure and 1636 01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:47.880 DevOps podcast. 1637 01:20:48.920 --> 01:20:49.119 Nice. 1638 01:20:49.119 --> 01:20:50.720 So I really appreciate it. 1639 01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:53.199 And I could, Uh, I just want to say, like, 1640 01:20:53.239 --> 01:20:55.520 even like I'm sure younger kids are, like, you've been 1641 01:20:55.520 --> 01:20:57.199 doing it so long and you like, you know so. 1642 01:20:57.159 --> 01:20:58.319 Many people in the community. 1643 01:20:58.439 --> 01:21:01.119 Yeah, and like in it would be maybe just easy 1644 01:21:01.199 --> 01:21:03.880 to see how you know, how you've affected those people. 1645 01:21:03.880 --> 01:21:05.399 But I just want to let you know you affect 1646 01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:08.279 a lot of younger people just coming into the dot net. 1647 01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:10.600 I appreciate it, ya, I mean right now, Well, Dan, 1648 01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:12.239 how old are you? If you don't mind me. 1649 01:21:12.239 --> 01:21:15.680 Asking, I'm older than I would like. I'm forty two, 1650 01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:17.479 all right, so you're not young. 1651 01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:18.520 I'm not young. 1652 01:21:18.399 --> 01:21:19.920 Now this face. 1653 01:21:20.119 --> 01:21:23.000 Yeah, but I got into programming in two thousand and 1654 01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:25.520 two thousand and one, so just after the y two 1655 01:21:25.640 --> 01:21:27.560 K stuff, So I wasn't part of it. I heard 1656 01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:29.720 about it, sure, and I've been doing dot net stuff 1657 01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:30.920 since two thousand and nine. 1658 01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:33.199 But to give the young. 1659 01:21:33.199 --> 01:21:35.760 Young programmers look at you like an old fart that 1660 01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:37.760 is yet watch. 1661 01:21:37.680 --> 01:21:39.920 With the you know, the latest and greatest. 1662 01:21:40.039 --> 01:21:40.239 Yeah. 1663 01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:44.039 And even though like I'm like, I'm not young or old, 1664 01:21:44.039 --> 01:21:45.920 I guess I don't know. I love that you guys 1665 01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:48.680 share the history because you have been around a lot 1666 01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:51.039 longer than me. You've been around a lot longer than 1667 01:21:51.079 --> 01:21:53.600 a lot of people doing dot net. Yeah, and I 1668 01:21:53.640 --> 01:21:55.720 just love that you share the history of you know, 1669 01:21:55.720 --> 01:21:58.560 stuff that's happened back in the day, how the cycles repeat, 1670 01:21:58.840 --> 01:22:00.640 how you see the same sort of thing, and just 1671 01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:02.359 how the technology has evolved. 1672 01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:04.760 Sharing those stories. I really appreciate it. 1673 01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:07.520 But uh, my question for you was, you guys have 1674 01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:10.079 been building dot net stuff for a long long time. 1675 01:22:10.479 --> 01:22:13.279 What's your favorite thing that you've built for. 1676 01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:16.000 Like a personal like a person, something like a side 1677 01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:18.359 project or something at home. Is do you have a 1678 01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:20.680 favorite thing that you like just loved You had a 1679 01:22:20.680 --> 01:22:24.279 passion project or an automation, or it's something a video game. 1680 01:22:24.319 --> 01:22:24.760 I don't know. 1681 01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:27.920 I do, and I'll try to keep it short, but 1682 01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:31.520 I have a baby grand piano that has MIDI built 1683 01:22:31.520 --> 01:22:36.479 into it, so that means it has a medi input 1684 01:22:36.520 --> 01:22:39.359 and a MIDI output, and it had there's a selenoid, 1685 01:22:39.880 --> 01:22:43.239 you know, that is an attack or like something that 1686 01:22:43.279 --> 01:22:47.520 pops up under every key and it responds to MIDI 1687 01:22:47.640 --> 01:22:50.880 on and off notes, and it responds to velocity. 1688 01:22:51.399 --> 01:22:53.920 So if you. 1689 01:22:52.880 --> 01:22:55.239 Connect a little keyboard and you play a soft note, 1690 01:22:55.279 --> 01:22:56.600 it plays soft, and you play a hard note, it 1691 01:22:56.640 --> 01:22:57.119 plays hard. 1692 01:22:57.199 --> 01:22:59.000 Right. It really does reproduce. 1693 01:22:59.840 --> 01:23:03.000 And so this is a great piano and I always 1694 01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:06.560 wanted it because I like recording in an open space 1695 01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:09.520 where the piano and the drums are in the same room, 1696 01:23:10.079 --> 01:23:12.079 the guitar players are in the same room with their 1697 01:23:12.079 --> 01:23:13.319 answer in a different room. 1698 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:15.640 The bass goes direct right. 1699 01:23:16.039 --> 01:23:18.600 But I could record jazz this way and actually have 1700 01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.119 all the musicians in the same room with me the engineer. 1701 01:23:22.159 --> 01:23:25.680 I don't like this whole wall off the engineer in 1702 01:23:25.720 --> 01:23:28.039 a little lab where they're like, you're like a lab 1703 01:23:28.159 --> 01:23:30.800 rat out there trying to player, and I hate that. 1704 01:23:31.119 --> 01:23:32.760 I hated it as a musician, I hate it as 1705 01:23:32.800 --> 01:23:36.720 an engineer. So that's leading up to this story. So basically, 1706 01:23:36.880 --> 01:23:39.920 the all the goal was for me with this midipiano, 1707 01:23:40.479 --> 01:23:42.319 and I only got it to work once, is that 1708 01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:46.239 I want the piano player to play on the piano 1709 01:23:46.399 --> 01:23:50.640 and I'll capture the MIDI file right, but no sound. 1710 01:23:51.560 --> 01:23:55.119 No sound, I'll just trigger a keyboard sound or they 1711 01:23:55.119 --> 01:23:56.439 could play on a mini keyboard. 1712 01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:59.520 But I record the met and then we added to MIDI, 1713 01:24:00.119 --> 01:24:03.119 take out the errors, maybe quantize it a little bit, 1714 01:24:03.279 --> 01:24:06.319 move stuff around if it's later early, and then play 1715 01:24:06.359 --> 01:24:08.520 it back through the piano later time, or report it 1716 01:24:09.640 --> 01:24:12.680 and then use that audio track in place of the 1717 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:14.239 mini track in the original mix. 1718 01:24:14.600 --> 01:24:18.279 So I get isolation. Now here's the problem. 1719 01:24:18.479 --> 01:24:22.520 My piano didn't like the latest version or the current 1720 01:24:22.600 --> 01:24:26.119 version or the current whatever it was of the software 1721 01:24:26.119 --> 01:24:29.039 that I was using, and so when I recorded MIDI 1722 01:24:29.439 --> 01:24:31.800 and tried to play it back through the piano. The 1723 01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:35.199 pedal was sticking. It wasn't the pedal wasn't responding correctly. 1724 01:24:35.239 --> 01:24:37.239 And when I looked at the output because I had 1725 01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:40.279 a scope, I had a miniscope, it was actually not 1726 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:43.560 sending the note off commands at the right time when 1727 01:24:43.600 --> 01:24:47.840 you lifted up the pedal, like the pedal commands were. 1728 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:48.760 Not working correctly. 1729 01:24:49.159 --> 01:24:52.439 So I literally vibe coded my way around it with 1730 01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:57.439 an app that takes the and I learned that it 1731 01:24:57.520 --> 01:25:02.760 basically was the AWE that was the problem and they 1732 01:25:02.760 --> 01:25:03.840 couldn't reproduce it. 1733 01:25:03.920 --> 01:25:06.880 But if I told I basically. 1734 01:25:06.439 --> 01:25:08.880 Told AI to create a program that plays a MIDI file, 1735 01:25:09.520 --> 01:25:12.159 and I took the MIDI file and played it back. 1736 01:25:12.239 --> 01:25:15.319 It was fine. So then I asked it to create 1737 01:25:15.359 --> 01:25:18.880 a program that plays back the MIDI file and records 1738 01:25:18.920 --> 01:25:21.239 an audio file at the same time and keeps them 1739 01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:21.680 in sync. 1740 01:25:22.319 --> 01:25:24.239 So it's literally a console. 1741 01:25:23.840 --> 01:25:26.079 App that it's like book and all the you know, 1742 01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:29.039 the defaults are it boom boom boom, boom boom go, 1743 01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:31.680 and it plays the midifile and records it and I 1744 01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:33.880 got a perfect audio track and it works. 1745 01:25:34.600 --> 01:25:37.560 And that to me was like, I don't know why it. 1746 01:25:37.479 --> 01:25:42.119 Didn't work, but I understood the circumstances under which it failed, 1747 01:25:42.560 --> 01:25:45.239 and I worked around those circumstances and I got something 1748 01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:47.600 that works, and I use it with clients and they 1749 01:25:47.640 --> 01:25:48.000 love it. 1750 01:25:49.359 --> 01:25:51.439 Oh that's awesome. I should have known yours would be 1751 01:25:51.439 --> 01:25:52.399 something music related. 1752 01:25:52.720 --> 01:25:54.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1753 01:25:54.760 --> 01:25:57.279 My step saw homosists these days, which means I write 1754 01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:00.720 more Python that I care to admit. Granted, I don't 1755 01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:02.279 want to admit to any Python, but you know that's 1756 01:26:02.279 --> 01:26:02.920 the way that goes. 1757 01:26:02.960 --> 01:26:03.399 Sometimes. 1758 01:26:03.680 --> 01:26:05.680 I'm in the same boat there. I've played with Python 1759 01:26:05.720 --> 01:26:07.319 a little bit, but I've shied away from it. 1760 01:26:07.359 --> 01:26:12.520 I don't even know what my pie is or why 1761 01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:13.000 I want it. 1762 01:26:13.239 --> 01:26:17.680 Awesome, Thank you very much, guys. Yeah, great, two thousand episodes. 1763 01:26:17.840 --> 01:26:18.319 I hope you have. 1764 01:26:18.359 --> 01:26:20.439 There's many more to come, for sure, I'm sure they 1765 01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:20.800 will be. 1766 01:26:21.079 --> 01:26:23.079 I've been listening to dot net Rocks for more than 1767 01:26:23.119 --> 01:26:26.000 a decade, listening to experts from all over the world 1768 01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:31.159 covering so much tech it felt like community personally. Having 1769 01:26:31.199 --> 01:26:34.039 had the pleasure of appearing several times, it's just so 1770 01:26:34.319 --> 01:26:38.560 much fun talking to Colnum Richard that sharing knowledge, thoughts, 1771 01:26:38.600 --> 01:26:42.159 and ideas just flows naturally. It's to the next two 1772 01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:43.880 thousand episodes. Well done you two. 1773 01:26:44.359 --> 01:26:47.399 All right, we got some more peeps money Kevin Boss 1774 01:26:47.680 --> 01:26:50.560 Uh yeah, first time caller, longtime listener. 1775 01:26:50.239 --> 01:26:51.920 Hi Kevin, how you doing so? 1776 01:26:52.079 --> 01:26:53.479 First of all, I just want to thank you guys. 1777 01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:55.600 I mean, I think it's so fully clear from everybody 1778 01:26:55.640 --> 01:26:57.359 in this room how big of an impact you guys 1779 01:26:57.359 --> 01:26:59.600 have had over all of these shows, for everything that 1780 01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:03.600 you've done. I know colleagues, friends listen to you guys constantly, 1781 01:27:04.239 --> 01:27:08.359 and it definitely impacts quite a few people. I am 1782 01:27:09.159 --> 01:27:11.520 not quite old enough to need to take my shoes 1783 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:15.279 off to count my gray hairs. Nice, but I as 1784 01:27:15.479 --> 01:27:18.319 somebody who kind of has that older school, more journeymanti 1785 01:27:19.039 --> 01:27:22.840 mentality for training up younger engineers. Yeah, what would you 1786 01:27:22.840 --> 01:27:26.520 guys say for people who are wanting to help train 1787 01:27:26.600 --> 01:27:29.319 those younger engineers coming up? Especially with AI, it feels 1788 01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:31.840 like that gap is getting bigger and. 1789 01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:33.359 Instinct right now. 1790 01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:36.039 It says that juniors have no role, which I think 1791 01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:40.359 is a terrible mistake. Also interact, because I would argue 1792 01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:44.760 the juniors have less to unlearned right that we are 1793 01:27:44.960 --> 01:27:48.920 being retooled, and I definitely see folks that have more 1794 01:27:49.039 --> 01:27:52.680 experience who've been retooled before going oh we're retooling again 1795 01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:56.039 and either exiting like I'm not doing it again, or 1796 01:27:56.199 --> 01:27:59.319 just like, let's get to work. I feel for the 1797 01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:02.960 guys in the middle who have been on the same 1798 01:28:02.960 --> 01:28:06.199 stack for a decade or two and now are like, 1799 01:28:06.279 --> 01:28:06.680 you want. 1800 01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:07.119 Me to what to what? 1801 01:28:08.399 --> 01:28:10.399 In some ways, the juniors have got it better. You're 1802 01:28:10.399 --> 01:28:14.279 not deeply committed to what we've done so far. In fact, 1803 01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:16.439 I've talked to lots of juniors have been fighting tooth 1804 01:28:16.479 --> 01:28:19.119 and nail against what they're being told to do, right 1805 01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:24.760 because often educators included, are like, hey, I suffer for this. 1806 01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:26.359 You have to suffer too, And it's like it's just 1807 01:28:26.359 --> 01:28:27.039 not necessary. 1808 01:28:27.079 --> 01:28:29.039 It's always been that way too. 1809 01:28:29.399 --> 01:28:30.319 It's always been wrong. 1810 01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:35.079 The Sea developers look down at the quick basic developers, 1811 01:28:35.319 --> 01:28:38.239 and then the quick base developers became visual debase of developers. 1812 01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:39.680 So, yeah, you're a Sea developers. 1813 01:28:39.720 --> 01:28:41.960 There's nothing better you can do for a junior, that is, say, 1814 01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:44.840 you should approach this the newest way you can because 1815 01:28:44.840 --> 01:28:46.800 it's going to be the most valuable thing that's out there. 1816 01:28:47.079 --> 01:28:48.479 Take these tools out for a spin. 1817 01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:51.279 If there's anything I can give you as an experienced 1818 01:28:51.279 --> 01:28:54.479 person is here are the fundamentals that are gonna matter. Yes, 1819 01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:56.319 how are you going to test it? How are you 1820 01:28:56.319 --> 01:28:58.000 going to deploy it? How are you going to know 1821 01:28:58.039 --> 01:28:59.760 when it's wrong? How are you going to go back 1822 01:28:59.800 --> 01:29:05.159 when it's wrong? Like that unsexy responsible stuff. That's what 1823 01:29:05.199 --> 01:29:07.199 they have a tough time thinking about that we do 1824 01:29:07.359 --> 01:29:10.880 every day. I don't think the answer is a degree 1825 01:29:10.880 --> 01:29:14.199 in computer science, but I think the answer lies in 1826 01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:20.600 for juniors, like Richard said, learning the fundamentals of software. 1827 01:29:20.279 --> 01:29:23.279 Stacks and queues and it just basic stuff. 1828 01:29:23.039 --> 01:29:27.880 Right that everybody needs to use. And whether you your 1829 01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:30.880 AI creates that, you need to read it or whatever 1830 01:29:30.920 --> 01:29:34.960 it is, you know, learn link just enough, just enough 1831 01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:38.239 to understand it, and that way you'll know how to 1832 01:29:38.279 --> 01:29:40.960 approach a problem and you'll know what you know when 1833 01:29:40.960 --> 01:29:43.920 your AI spits out some code, what it's actually doing. 1834 01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:46.039 Yeah, that's perfect. 1835 01:29:46.199 --> 01:29:47.680 I was gonna say, I feel like I've been seeing 1836 01:29:47.720 --> 01:29:50.439 those extremes, right if some people going all in on, 1837 01:29:51.079 --> 01:29:53.119 you know, we'll just vibe code our whole way through, 1838 01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:56.319 which is fine to a point. You know, if it's 1839 01:29:56.359 --> 01:30:00.319 your own simple home automation system, yeah, low risk, no. 1840 01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:03.560 Problem somebody else, But fundamentals. 1841 01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:05.680 And here's the problem too. 1842 01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:09.720 If they don't understand those things, the AI might understand 1843 01:30:09.720 --> 01:30:11.960 more than they do right, and spit out something that's 1844 01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:14.840 actually correct, and they look at and they don't understand 1845 01:30:14.880 --> 01:30:17.680 it and say no, no, no, that's all wrong because they. 1846 01:30:17.520 --> 01:30:19.239 Don't understand it right. 1847 01:30:19.520 --> 01:30:22.479 Instead of saying, hey, explain to me what this does. 1848 01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:27.039 Comment the code every line so that I can understand it. 1849 01:30:27.279 --> 01:30:29.800 Write a paragraph of comments so I. 1850 01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:30.680 Can understand it. 1851 01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:34.319 You know, that's what they shouldn't do, and and that 1852 01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:38.520 gives the AI a chance to think, oh, maybe I. 1853 01:30:38.439 --> 01:30:42.880 Didn't do this right, and therefore it'll try another pass. Yeah. 1854 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:44.840 I think that's what we've been pushing our juniors towards. 1855 01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:46.680 It's a lot more of trying to leverage the AI 1856 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:50.319 as a learning tool absolutely and just you know, vibe 1857 01:30:50.359 --> 01:30:53.079 code and send it absolutely perfect. 1858 01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:53.319 Again. 1859 01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:54.960 I want to thank you guys for just a massive 1860 01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:59.439 impact that you've had, especially younger engineers like myself. 1861 01:30:59.800 --> 01:31:00.880 And how old are you? 1862 01:31:01.239 --> 01:31:02.159 I'm only thirty. 1863 01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:04.000 Eight, only thirty eight? 1864 01:31:04.079 --> 01:31:07.279 Come on, I want some twenty four year olds in here, man. 1865 01:31:08.039 --> 01:31:11.119 I'm sure we've got some old MVPs. Yeah, think about 1866 01:31:11.119 --> 01:31:14.000 where we are. It's kind of a filter set. Yeah yeah, yeah, 1867 01:31:14.039 --> 01:31:14.680 yeah yeah. 1868 01:31:14.720 --> 01:31:17.960 Well, congratulations to you, and I'm very much appreciate you 1869 01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:18.840 guys to stick around. 1870 01:31:18.960 --> 01:31:22.960 Thank you, two thousand freaking episodes. What an achievement. Hi, 1871 01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:26.560 every run. Egil Henson here. I've been listening to Dot 1872 01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:29.520 Net Rock for basically my entire career back in the 1873 01:31:29.520 --> 01:31:32.479 early two thousands. The commute to work was always better 1874 01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:34.880 when the new episode had landed in the feed overnight. 1875 01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:37.920 The show kept me up to date on what was 1876 01:31:37.920 --> 01:31:40.439 happening across the dot need ecosystem and gave me deep 1877 01:31:40.439 --> 01:31:44.199 insights from knowledgeable and interesting guests, and of course the 1878 01:31:44.279 --> 01:31:47.760 host were pretty good too. Listening to Carlin Richards has 1879 01:31:47.800 --> 01:31:51.640 always felt a bit like catching up with old friends. Familiar, comfortable, 1880 01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:55.800 and always welcome. So congratulations on the two thousand episodes, 1881 01:31:55.840 --> 01:31:59.760 and thank you for all the conversations, insights and inspiration 1882 01:32:00.039 --> 01:32:01.680 all of the years. 1883 01:32:01.760 --> 01:32:05.199 Jeff Jeff were wrapping up Brothers Getting to be a 1884 01:32:05.239 --> 01:32:07.199 long show. Give us a story? 1885 01:32:07.359 --> 01:32:08.319 Did you want to say something? 1886 01:32:08.319 --> 01:32:11.479 Hold on, Mike bank Bankovich wants to say something awesome. 1887 01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:12.600 I'll keep it short. 1888 01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:14.760 I just want to say thank you because my entire 1889 01:32:14.800 --> 01:32:17.960 career grew up with you. Guys from early on to. 1890 01:32:18.319 --> 01:32:20.520 Part of our conversation for a long time friend. 1891 01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:23.479 Yeah, and I've learned so much from both of you. 1892 01:32:24.079 --> 01:32:28.720 And You've been encouragers, you've been organizers, You've lifted people up, 1893 01:32:28.800 --> 01:32:32.279 You've you've like pulled them up, You've you've taught people, 1894 01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:35.520 You've blessed so many lives, and so that can't be understated. 1895 01:32:35.560 --> 01:32:36.600 I just wanted to say thank you. 1896 01:32:36.800 --> 01:32:37.439 That's very kind. 1897 01:32:37.439 --> 01:32:42.399 You very kind, Jeff, thank you, Hey, Carl, Hey, Richard, Hey, 1898 01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:45.159 all the other amazing people that make dot net rocks happening. 1899 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:47.920 Gerald here, I just wanted to give you a huge 1900 01:32:47.960 --> 01:32:51.039 congrats for two thousand episodes off dot net rocks. 1901 01:32:51.079 --> 01:32:52.079 That's really, really amazing. 1902 01:32:52.439 --> 01:32:55.319 I think you have been podcasting before the word podcast 1903 01:32:55.640 --> 01:32:58.680 was even a thing. I tried my own podcast and 1904 01:32:58.760 --> 01:33:01.239 I think I didn't even make it to one hundred episodes, 1905 01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:04.199 So big respect for what you were doing here. With that, 1906 01:33:04.680 --> 01:33:07.520 you have really become a staple in the donet community, 1907 01:33:07.840 --> 01:33:10.399 and I hope I look forward to the next two 1908 01:33:10.439 --> 01:33:13.159 thousand episodes. Keep it up, friends, Really amazing work. 1909 01:33:13.319 --> 01:33:13.640 Bank. 1910 01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:18.039 Are you guys doing all right? 1911 01:33:18.159 --> 01:33:18.399 Man? 1912 01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:22.159 You gotta love the you, gotta love the you gotta 1913 01:33:22.199 --> 01:33:23.000 love it. 1914 01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:24.359 It's pretty pretty amazing. 1915 01:33:24.680 --> 01:33:27.640 You guys have been doing this for longer than I've 1916 01:33:27.640 --> 01:33:31.720 been an evangelist, and it's it's it's amazing the impact 1917 01:33:31.720 --> 01:33:35.039 you guys have had, and it is so much fun 1918 01:33:35.079 --> 01:33:37.880 to see and watch all that stuff. But I remember 1919 01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:41.560 during COVID you had come back or you were doing 1920 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:42.880 a road show. 1921 01:33:43.359 --> 01:33:48.840 And the Blazer, and. 1922 01:33:50.079 --> 01:33:53.520 Yeah, I just remember going, Okay, well, let's keep praying 1923 01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:54.760 for the right things. 1924 01:33:54.479 --> 01:33:57.239 Right COVID by himself in a hotel room in Portland. 1925 01:33:57.279 --> 01:34:00.399 I remember talking to you, going go home. I know 1926 01:34:00.680 --> 01:34:01.319 what are you doing? 1927 01:34:02.159 --> 01:34:04.880 So I wanted to quarantine. But yeah, I was doing 1928 01:34:04.920 --> 01:34:07.319 the Blazer road show for the Express. We're on the 1929 01:34:07.359 --> 01:34:10.079 West Coast. We did the East coast, around the West coast, 1930 01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:14.520 I caught COVID. Everybody caught COVID and we had to 1931 01:34:14.520 --> 01:34:15.439 stop the tour. 1932 01:34:15.479 --> 01:34:17.960 And it was and it was just you know, there's 1933 01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:20.039 there's so many things that changed during COVID. 1934 01:34:20.119 --> 01:34:21.159 Yeah. Oh yeah. 1935 01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:24.760 My daughter, who is a guide a degree as an 1936 01:34:24.800 --> 01:34:29.520 elementary education teacher. God bless the teachers, right, Yeah, decided 1937 01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:32.520 she didn't like kids and wanted to do code, so 1938 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:35.319 she went back and got a coding certificate right during COVID. 1939 01:34:35.520 --> 01:34:35.960 Wow. 1940 01:34:36.439 --> 01:34:40.840 And you know it's just the whole switch of diving 1941 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:42.640 into that and it's like okay. 1942 01:34:43.079 --> 01:34:45.279 Yeah, yeah that was the time. 1943 01:34:46.199 --> 01:34:48.039 Yeah time, crazy times. 1944 01:34:48.039 --> 01:34:50.439 But I as feel lucky that I caught COVID at 1945 01:34:50.479 --> 01:34:53.159 the very beginning of it. Yeah to be said about that, 1946 01:34:53.359 --> 01:34:56.760 and you survived it. Yeah. 1947 01:34:56.479 --> 01:34:59.600 I holed up in this hotel in Portland, and thankfully 1948 01:34:59.600 --> 01:35:03.199 Devik's asked my sponsor, who sponsored the tour, put me 1949 01:35:03.319 --> 01:35:04.720 up there. I said, I don't want to go home 1950 01:35:04.800 --> 01:35:06.760 until I'm done with this. I don't want to kill anybody, 1951 01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:08.479 you know, And they're like, yeah, you should stay butt. 1952 01:35:09.000 --> 01:35:14.479 But I remember walking over to you know, Whole Foods. 1953 01:35:14.119 --> 01:35:17.720 And getting a steak and then cast iron pan because 1954 01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:18.880 I didn't have anything to cook with. 1955 01:35:18.920 --> 01:35:20.600 And I was in a hotel room where they had 1956 01:35:20.600 --> 01:35:21.439 a little kitchenette. 1957 01:35:22.039 --> 01:35:24.720 Yeah, you know, I'm used to a hood and a 1958 01:35:25.000 --> 01:35:28.279 vent fan at a Rome. I turned the fan on, 1959 01:35:28.399 --> 01:35:31.439 I put the thing that sizzle the steaks. Oh yeah, 1960 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:36.319 fucking room fills up with smoke, fire alarm goes off. 1961 01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:40.039 The manager comes in, They're like, the fire department comes in. 1962 01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:41.520 I'm like, I'm just a cook. 1963 01:35:41.560 --> 01:35:42.000 A steak. 1964 01:35:43.880 --> 01:35:46.079 You do that in a hotel and it's like, okay, 1965 01:35:46.159 --> 01:35:47.439 now what yeah trauma. 1966 01:35:49.239 --> 01:35:51.920 That was the only and we did some shows while 1967 01:35:51.960 --> 01:35:55.960 I was in that and I could barely speak tough. 1968 01:35:56.560 --> 01:35:56.960 Yeah. 1969 01:35:57.359 --> 01:35:59.800 Well, congratulations on two thousand. 1970 01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:01.119 Thank you. 1971 01:36:01.239 --> 01:36:04.079 That is amazing and uh, good to see you guys. 1972 01:36:04.279 --> 01:36:05.119 Good to see you too much. 1973 01:36:05.119 --> 01:36:12.920 I need to hang out, we do sure, absolutely, yeah, cheers, well, buddy, Yeah, 1974 01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:15.399 that's a show and there is a show, a long 1975 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:16.720 one for for sure. 1976 01:36:17.399 --> 01:36:19.279 And we'd like to thank well. 1977 01:36:19.319 --> 01:36:23.039 We'd like to thank the Tavern Hill Hall. 1978 01:36:23.119 --> 01:36:26.119 It's great, Dean our server, Dean the server. 1979 01:36:28.319 --> 01:36:33.199 We'd like to thank Jeff Palermo and his party kept 1980 01:36:33.239 --> 01:36:35.399 all of this immediately, was like what if we did this, 1981 01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:36.760 You're like, yep, we're doing it. 1982 01:36:36.800 --> 01:36:37.920 We're doing it. Yeah. 1983 01:36:38.079 --> 01:36:42.800 Our particular software is his uh uh sponsor. Measure Measure 1984 01:36:42.960 --> 01:36:45.119 is his company that also sponsored it. 1985 01:36:45.239 --> 01:36:47.119 So we'd like to thank all those people and. 1986 01:36:47.119 --> 01:36:50.880 Our sponsors, Ray Gun Text Control and Pulse Oar Security. 1987 01:36:51.039 --> 01:36:53.720 Awesome, thank you guys. Yeah, thank you to everybody who's 1988 01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:56.279 put up with us for the last two thousand shows. 1989 01:36:56.279 --> 01:36:59.560 And hopefully we'll be back next week. We will By MIKEE. 1990 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:21.199 Dot Net. 1991 01:37:21.319 --> 01:37:24.279 Rocks is brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced 1992 01:37:24.279 --> 01:37:28.039 by Pop Studios, a full service audio, video and post 1993 01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:32.279 production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, and of 1994 01:37:32.279 --> 01:37:36.800 course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. 1995 01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:39.119 Visit our website at d O T N E t 1996 01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:43.359 R O c k S dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, 1997 01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:47.199 mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going 1998 01:37:47.239 --> 01:37:50.640 back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand 1999 01:37:50.640 --> 01:37:50.920 and two. 2000 01:37:51.520 --> 01:37:53.880 And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep 2001 01:37:53.960 --> 01:37:56.479 us in business. Now go write some code. 2002 01:37:56.800 --> 01:37:57.560 See you next. 2003 01:37:57.359 --> 01:37:58.800 Time, Got 2004 01:38:00.560 --> 01:38:07.359 Daddy see a summer time that reaches home than my 2005 01:38:07.600 --> 01:38:09.399 Texas in line present