Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
In this episode, we're gonna start taking a look at
the Sarah Ransom deposition that's recently been unsealed, and we're
gonna take a look at what she had to say,
and Laura Meninger is doing the questioning, and Sarah Ransom's
being represented by a lawyer named Peter Gergis. So now
that we have all the players on the stage, let's
get to the play. Menager, good morning, Miss Ransom. Answer,
good morning, Manager. Can you please give us your full name,
Sarah Sarah Emma Ashley Ransom. Manager and what is your birthday?
Ransom redacted? Menager and what is your current address? Gergis,
I'm going to object to a current address. Manager, you
can answer, Gergis, you can give your last permanent address.
Ransom redacted, then redacted again and questioned by Menager and
what does that mean that's your last permanent address? Ransom?
I reside there. Manager. Do you rent an apartment? Ransom?
My partner does? Manager? Who is your partner? Gurgis objection? Manager,
who is your partner? Ransom? Do I have to answer that? Gurgis? Yes? Redacted?
Manager I'm sorry, Ransom redacted? Manager? How do you spell
the last name? Ransom? Redacted? Manager? And how long has
redacted been your partner? Gurgis, I'm going to object. I'm
not sure what the relevance of this is or where
you're going with this, Manager? How long has redacted been
your partner? Ransom? Sorry? Can I just ask a question?
I would like to just clarify When you say objection,
does that mean I actually have to answer the question,
because that's irrelevant. Gurgis, right, unless I'm telling you not
to answer. You need to answer, Ransom, so I don't
need to answer, Gurgis, No, you do need to answer this. Okay,
we've been together almost a year. Manager. And what is
your current occupation Ransom, I'm a writer. Manager. And what
do you write? Ransom? Just stuff, you know, just about
factual stuff, you know, just a bit of this, a
bit of that. Manager. Have you been paid for any
of your writing? Ransom? No, it's more of a hobby, really, Manager.
Are you employed Ransom? Nope? Manager. Do you have any
source of income? Ransom my partner? Gurgis, I'm going to
object to that. Income is out. You don't have to
answer that McCauley, do you have any source of income? Gurgis,
I just objected to that you don't have to answer. Manager.
Is there a privilege that you're asserting, Gurgis, I'm not
sure what the relevance is, and I'm not going to
allow Manager interrupts them and says, do you believe that
relevance is a proper objection during a deposition? Gurgis, I
believe that if you go far afield with the witness,
that the judge is not going to appreciate it, and
that I'm not going to just sit here and be
a potted plan and allow her to answer any questions
on any subject that you see fit. Manager. On relevance,
you're instructing her not to answer on irrelevance objection? Is
that what you're saying, Gurgis, I just objected, McCauley, I'm
going to object on behalf of plaintiff for Jinia Roberts,
to the extent that you're requesting from a non party
financial information which is not allowed under New York law.
So McCauley is also sitting in on this, but she's
not there physically. She's on the phone. Manager. I have
asked her whether she has any source of income, and
you're going to object McCauley, yes, manager, and instructor not
to answer. McCauley, I'm not instructing her or not to answer.
I'm just making a record. Gurgis. It's financial information, manager
interrupts them, and whether she has a financial motive is relevant. Manager.
So I'm going to ask you one last time, do
you have any source of income? Gurgis, I'm going to
instruct you again not to answer. Has any of your
writing been published by anyone? Ransom no manager? Have you
sought to have your writing published by anyone? Ransom no manager?
What is your partner's occupation? Gurgis objection McCauley, objection, Gurgis,
I'm going to object, Yes, same objection. Manager. If you
are going to instruct the witness not to answer, please
say that contemporaneous with your objection, because there are two
different things. There are objections and instructions not to answer.
So are you instructing her not to answer what her
partner's occupation is? Gurgis, right, same objection. I'm instructing the
witness not to answer on that basis of both relevance
and because she is a third party non I'm sorry,
non party witness who you were asking for financial information about?
Menager once again interjects no, I ask for an occupation. McCauley,
I'm going to object that relates directly to financial information,
so it's covered by New York's law with respect to
non party witness Menager, what are the names of your
parents redacted? Manager? How do you spell that? Ransom? Redacted? Manager?
And where do your parents live? Ransom? I'm not comfortable
giving you my mother and father's address. Manager, are you
instructing her not to answer? Macauley, do you want to confer? Gurgis,
give me a moment on this the witness, we're really
well organized. Time noted nine twenty one, recess time noted
nine twenty three, So they took a quick recess, then
they got back to it. Manager, Miss Ransom, there was
a question pending when you took a break with your lawyers.
Can you please answer the question? Gergis, I'm instructing the
witness not to answer questions regarding current information about her
own location, her family's location, or things of that nature.
The witness has expressed to me fears of harassment and
the belief that she's being followed, and my understanding is
that there are other witnesses that have had similar fears
and concerns. And unless you make some sort of proffer
of the actual relevance of her parents address wherever those are,
I'm not going to have her answer. Manager, Okay, where
does that understanding come from? Please, mister Gergis. Gurgis, where
does your understanding come from? You just made a factual representation.
I would like to know where your understanding comes from. Gurgis. Yeah,
I'm not being deposed. I'm not going to answer your questions. Manager,
all right, Manager, all right, Miss Ransom, did you agree
to be a witness in the case of Roberts versus Maxwell? Answer? Yes? Manager.
Did you voluntarily agree to do that? Ransom? Yes. Manager.
Where you promised anything in exchange for your testimony and
the Roberts versus Maxwell case? Ransom? No, Manager, Where you
provided legal counsel? Ransom? Sorry? Does that mean McAuley you
have a lawyer? Yes, Gurgus, yes, Ransom yes. Manager, Okay,
how many lawyers do you have? Ransom three? Manager. I
would like the record to reflect that the witness is
checking with the lawyers to get answers of these questions, Pottinger, Wait, wait, wait, wait,
objection gergis there is absolutely no exchange. No words were
spoken by Menager. Mister Pottinger. Did you put up a
number of fingers? Did you put up a number of fingers,
mister Pottinger. Mister Pottinger, you said, I'm going to object
because the witness is answering these questions in plural menager.
Uh huh, Pottinger, that is inaccurate. When she looked at
me to ask how many lawyers she had, I said three,
with three fingers. That is a single request on her
part and a single answer, not multiple menainger. No, she
has looked to her lawyers for previous answers. We'll just
make a record as we go along. Thank you McCauley.
You could have had a videotape here so that we
would have a record of that, because I think your
verbal record is inaccurate, though, Pottinger, and in fact she
this is mister Pottinger speaking, And in fact, she has
not looked at me during this deposition except one time,
which was or what I took to be a request
to know how many lawyers she has manager. So are
you being deposed mister Pottinger. Pottinger, I am not manager,
Miss Ransom. How many lawyers do you think you have? Ransom? Three? Manager,
can you please name them? Ransom, Peter, Cigarette and Stan.
Manager is mister Bradley Edwards representing you? Answer yes. Manager
is mister Paul Cassell representing you Ransom? No. Manager is
mister David Boys representing you? Answer yes. Ms McCauley. I
just want to be clearer for the record if you're
talking about representing generally or you're talking about a particular matter,
because we have a couple of matters. Manager, I'm asking
the questions here, McCauley. No, I understand that you have
to make the record clear. Manager interrupts Ms McCauley. If
you want to ask her questions later, you are more
than welcome to do so. I am going to ask
questions of the witness that I am deposing. McCauley. Well,
we want the record to be clear that there are
more than one action. Manager interrupts her. You can ask
questions when you're doing your questioning. I'm doing my questioning
now and I will ask the questions. McCauley. I'm going
to object the record should be clear there is more
than one action pending here. She is a witness and
she is also her own action pending. Pagliuka, thank you
for that speaking objection Ms McCauley and communicating that information
to the witness, which you know is totally improper. McCauley.
Now that's two people objecting right now. Is it going
to be Laura taking this deposition or is it going
to be you? Jeff? You guys have done this to
me before, and it's not a position where you're allowed
to object and she's allowed to object. You guys pulled
that at the last deposition, so please do not do
this here. Pagliuka, I was just thanking you, Menager. All right,
So the number of lawyers we're up to so far
is Gergis, McCauley, Pottinger, Edwards, and boys. That's five, correct, Ransom?
Can I just ask you a question? Manager, No, you
cannot ransom? Okay? Manager? Are those five lawyers that are
representing you? Gurgis objection? Manager? Yes or no? Ransom? Yes? Manager?
All right? Anyone else representing you? Ransom? No? Manager? Miss Schultz?
Is Miss Meredith Schultz representing you? Ransom? No? Menager? How
much are you paying for any of your lawyers. Ransom,
it's on a pro bono basis. Manager, Do you know
what each of those lawyers normal hourly rates are? Ransom? No, Menager.
Do you know how many hours you have spent with
your attorneys? Ransom? No, Gurgis objection? Menager? How many hours
have you spent with mister Gergis? Gurgis objection. Manager then
rephrases the question without communicating to me any information you
and he have shared ransom a few maybe, Menager? How many? Ransom?
About eleven hours in total? Menager? When is the first
time that you met mister gurr Gurgis objection? McCauley, you
can answer Gurgis. You can answer ransom yesterday. Manager, you
met mister Gurgis yesterday? Was that your answer? Ransom? Yes? Manager?
And who is paying for mister Gurgis fees? If you
know ransom? I have a pro bono arrangement. Manager. Do
you know if he's receiving money from anyone else in
exchange for representing you? Ransom? No, Manager, No you don't know,
or no, he is not ransom. I don't know, menager.
How many hours have you spent with miss McCauley, Ransom.
Can I just clarify that question? Does that mean on
the phone, Like, what are you referring to in person
or manager? Either one? How many hours? How much time
have you spent with Ms McCauley in person, Ransom, I
met with Ms McCauley for the first time in person yesterday,
but I've spent Yeah, we've been Ms McCauley was the
first person I actually spoke to. Manager. And how many
hours have you spent with on the phone, Ransom? Many
many hours? Menager? Approximately? How many? Ransom? I don't know.
Menager five Gurgis objection, Ransom more than five, Menager ten
Gurgis objection ten Ransom, well ten fifteen. She's been with
me the whole way since when I came forward, so
she's been a very prominent person. Manager. And when did
you first speak with her on the phone, Ransom, I
think it was Menager interrupts without telling me what you said. Ransom.
I think it was November, Menager, November? What? Ransom, I
can't remember the date, Menager, early November, late November. Gurgis objection, Ransom,
I can't remember, Menager. Was she speaking to you on
your cell phone or a landline? Ransom, cell phone manager,
a mobile number or a landline ransom? A cell phone manager? Okay?
And what's the cell phone number? Ransom? I don't have
it anymore? Menager? That's okay. What's the cell phone number? Ransom?
I actually don't know. I can't remember my cell phone number.
I don't have anything with me, so I can't remember
that number offhand, Menager. How long did you have that
cell phone? Ransom? About eight months? Menager? What happened to it? Ransom?
I got rid of it? Manager? Why Ransom? Because I
fear from my life because of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell. Menager?
What did you do with it? Ransom? I sold it?
Manager when Ransom? November? Manager? Before or after you first
spoke with Miss McCauley. Ransom before? Manager? So then, how
did you speak with Miss McCauley over the phone? Answer
by Ransom on my partner's cell phone? Manager, and what's
his cell phone number? Ms McCauley objection, what's irrelevance of
her partner's cell phone? Again? This is irrelevant, it's harassing.
It's your seeking information to be able to witness has
already expressed fear about people currently going after so we
would object to that intimidation of a non party witness. Menager,
What is your partner's cell phone number, Gurgis, I'm directing
the witness, not the answer. Manager. How many hours have
you spent speaking with mister Pottinger Ransom. I've been speaking
to mister Pottinger since November. Manager. When in November Ransom?
I can't remember, Menager, on the same cell phone that
you got rid of? Ransom? No, on my partner cell phone. Manager.
And when did your first meet mister Pottinger in person? Ransom?
It was at the beginning of January. Manager. And where
was the meeting Ransom? Barcelona? Manager? Where in Barcelona? Ransom? Barcelona?
It's Barcelona we meet. I can't remember the area. Manager,
in a restaurant, in a hotel, in an office, Ransom,
in a hotel? Manager. And how long did you spend
with mister Pottinger on that occasion, Ransom? Two days? How
many hours over the two days Ransom? Gosh about sixteen? Menager?
How many hours did you spend with mister Edwards Mister
McCauley objection, answer by Ransom the same amount Manager he
was with mister Pottinger. Answer yeah, Manager, and mister boys.
How much time have you spent with mister boys? Ransom.
I haven't spent any time with him yet, Menager. Have
you met him? Ransom? No? Manager, have you spoken to
him on the phone? Ransom? No, Menager? And you have
not paid any money for any of those lawyer's time? Correct? Ransom, Yes, Manager,
In addition to your free legal counsel, were you given
anything else in exchange for your agreement to be a
witness in this case? Gergis objection. Ransom no, Menager? Did
you fly over here? Answer yes, Menager from Barcelona? Ransom yes. Manager.
Did you pay for the plane ticket? Ransom? Yes, Menager?
How much was the plane ticket? Ransom? It was? I
think it was a thousand, It was a thousand. I
can't remember the exact total. Manager. Has anyone agreed to
reimburse you for this? Ransom? No? Manager, And you're staying
where while you're here? Gurgis objection, and direct you not
to answer that? Manager. Are you staying at a hotel
while you're here? Gurgis, you can answer that ransom, yeah, Manager,
are you paying for that hotel? Gurgis objection. I'm directing
you not to answer McCauley, you can answer Gergis. I
think you can answer. McCauley. Yeah, I think you can
answer Gergis. That's fine. I agree McCauley. You're a non
party witness. You can answer the question. Manager. Who is McCauley.
I am representing Virginia. He is representing the witness. Manager. Well,
you're representing the witness as well, right, McCauley, I'm not manager. Well,
did you just tell her she can answer a question. McCauley,
I did, manager? Are you paying for the hotel? Ransom? No? Menager?
Who's paying for the hotel? Answer by ransom? It's on
expenses I think of a witness. It's expenses from Yeah,
I don't know. Actually, Manager, you don't know who is
paying for your hotel? Answer no, Menager, it's not you
answer no, manager, And how much per night is your hotel? Ransom?
I have no idea Menager? How long are you staying
on this trip? Ransom? Just for the deposition? Menager? Okay,
when did you arrive? Answer? It was Tuesday? Late Tuesday? Manager?
And when are you leaving? Ransom? Tomorrow evening? All right,
So we're gonna wrap up part one right there, and
In the next episode, we'll pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
gonna pick up where we left off with the Sarah
Ransom deposition once again. Laura Meninger is asking questions and
the lawyer for Sarah Ransom is mister Gergis, along with
Sigared McAuley and Stan Pottinger. So let's get back to it. Menager,
how long are you staying here on this trip, Ransom?
Just for the deposition? Manager? Okay, when did you arrive Ransom?
It was Tuesday, late, Tuesday night, Manager. And when are
you leaving? Ransom tomorrow at evening? Manager? In addition to
your legal counsel and your hotel, is there anything else
you've been given in exchange for your ransom? No, Manager,
to be a witness in this case, you have to
wait for me to finish my question before you answer, Ransom. Sorry, Manager,
Have you been given anything else? Ransom? No, Menager, have
you been promised anything else? Ransom? No? Manager? Have you
been promised that you would have counsel to help you
bring a lawsuit against a number of people. McAuley objection.
To the extent this gets into attorney client privileged information,
you're not allowed to answer. Manager, Have your lawyers agreed
to bring a lawsuit on your behalf against a number
of people? Ransom? Yes, Manager, And are you paying for
that council? Ransom? No, Manager. Have you reached any agreement
about a contingency fee for that case? Ransom? Can you
explain what contingency means? Sorry? Manager. Do you expect to
receive money as a result of that lawsuit? Ransom? Oh, no, no, Manager,
You're not asking to receive any money as a result
of that lawsuit? Answer no, Manager, All right, So have
you had any agreements regarding writing a book? Answer by Ransom, No,
Manager about your experience, you have to wait for me
to finish my question. Have you had any agreements with
your lawyers about media rights in any form? Gergis objection
to the extent that you're asking about communications with the attorneys, Menager,
I'm asking about her arrangement with her attorneys, which is
not privileged. Ransom. Can you please repeat the question, manager,
Have you reached an agreement with your attorneys regarding meteor
rites for your story. Answer No, Manager, have you talked
to anyone about publishing anything relating to your story? Ransom?
Can you repeat the question please? Manager. Can you read
it back? Requested? Portion of the record was read back Ransom, Yes,
I have manager. Who have you spoken to, Ransom the
New York Post? Manager? Who at the New York Post Ransom?
Maureen Callahan? Manager? And when did you speak with her? Ransom?
I think it was late in October. Manager. Have you
spoken with her since? Ransom? No? Manager? And how long
ago did you speak to her? Ransom? I spoke to her,
for gosh, about thirty minutes on the phone once. Manager.
And what was what did you tell her in your
phone call? Ransom? I told her what Jeffrey Epstein and
Glenn macke well did to me and the other girls. Menager.
Did she give you any money in exchange for your interview? Ransom? No? Manager.
Did you publish anything related to that interview? Ransom? No? Menager.
How did you get in touch with miss Callahan? Ransom?
I emailed her after I read an article that she
had written about Jeffrey Epstein. And the last sentence was
it was on the sixteenth of October and one of
the last sentences I remember was will we ever know
the true extent of Jeffrey Epstein's victims? And I wrote
her after that because well it still continues, doesn't it. Manager.
Where's the email that you wrote her? Ransom? It's on
my computer, manager, okay, in your Yahoo account, Ransom. Yes. Manager.
Did you have an agreement with her to have any
additional conversations? Ransom? Yes? Manager? And what was that agreement, Ransom,
It wasn't an agreement, per such. What actually happened was
I came forward. As soon as I came forward, there
was where I live in Barcelona, there's quite a lot
it's a quite busy traffic with people. I came forward
to Marine Callahan. I wanted to tell my story, and
I want to run a campaign in which all the
girls that have been abused by Galine and Jeffrey can
come forward. And I wanted to run a campaign with
The New York Post to get these girls to have
the courage to come forward, because I know a lot
of them are frightened, like myself. The email correspondence I
had with Mariene Callahan, she was going away or something,
and she was going to write a piece in the
New York Post about my story. During that time, it
was the elections, so there was a lot more other
things going on. There were two people following me. After
I came forward to Mariene Callahan, I went to I
walked downstairs, I walked around. I have a usual routine
that I do in the morning, I went out. I
saw the same two people. Later on that afternoon, I
saw the same two people again. I was frightened. I'm
frightened for my life, absolutely frightened. So there you go.
So that's what I was. She pauses for a minute
communication stop between Maureen Callahan and I. I got really
angry with Maureen because she had obviously told someone being
the New York Post. So you know, Menager, So you
had an email to miss Callahan and an email back
from her. Ransom, yes, manager, more than one ransom? Yes? Manager?
How many ransom? I can't remember, Menager? More than ten
or less than ten? Manager? And you had one phone
call with her or more than just one ransom? Just
one manager and it lasted about thirty minutes. Ransom about that, Menager?
And was that also on the cell phone that you
got rid of? Ransom? That was on my partner's cell phone. Manager,
and what had you read in the press that caused
you to get in touch with miss Callahan? McCauley objectioned
the form Go ahead, Ransom. You can read the article yourself.
It's on the sixteenth of October. There's an article in
the New York Post written by Maureen Callahan. You can
read it, and that's what inspired me to come forward. McAuley.
What do you recall about that article, Ransom? Oh, I
can't remember. The one thing I do remember is the
last sentence of the article, which has stuck with me
and quite prominent, and that is, well we ever know
the true extent of Jeffrey Epstein's victims. Manager, Do you
recall anything else about this article? Ransom, It's just the
same when I had read the article, the stuff that
I had experienced myself with Jeffrey. It's just the same
old stuff, just continuing. I thought he had stopped abusing girls. Menager,
what do you recall reading an article that Jeffrey Epstein
was doing? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager, anything at all. Ransom,
you can read the article. I can't remember. Manager, you
remember nothing about this article, McCauley asked, an answered objection, Manager,
except it was related to Jeffrey Epstein and it ended
with the sentence that you just described. McAuley objection, asked
an answered Ransom, Yes, Menager, what do you know about
other girls being frightened? Ransom? I know that the girls
on the island and in New York during my time
with Jeffrey and Glane that they were frightened? Menager? Okay,
what are the names of those girls? Ransom redacted, redacted
and redacted. I don't know her surname. I can't remember
her surname, Maxwell. How do you spell the first name? Ransom? Redacted?
I'm just taking a guess. Redacted. I'm guessing. I think gergis.
I'm going to remind the witness I told her not
to speculate, but that's okay, Menager. In addition to redacted
and redacted, what are the names of the other girls
who you believe are frightened? Ransom redacted? There were a
couple of other girls that I met during my time
with Glen and Jeffrey that were frightened, Menager. What were
the names of the girls that you met that were frightened? Ransom?
There was redacted, redacted, redacted and redacted, and there were
two other girls. I can't remember their names, Menager, Okay,
please describe them, Ransom, the describe all the girls or Menager? No,
we're talking about the girls that you met on the
island that you described as frightened. Okay, on the island,
Gurgis objection. You seem to be suggesting that all those
girls are from the island. I'm not sure that that's
the testimony. Menager. All right, you said girls on the
island and in New York who were frightened. I ask
you for their names. You gave me three, correct Ransom, Yes, Menager.
You said there were two others correct Ransom. Uh huh Maxwell.
What did the two other girls look like? Ransom? I
can't really remember. One had blonde hair, long blonde hair, Menager.
Anything else about that, Ransom? I can't remember, Menager. The
other girl? Can you remember her hair color? Ransom? No,
I can't remember. Men Do you know the height of
either one of them? Ransom? No, I can't remember, Menager.
Do you have a photograph of either one of them? Ransom? No? Menager?
And where did you meet these two other girls? Ransom
in New York? Manager? Where in New York, Ransom, I
can't remember, Menager. You don't know the location at all, Ransom, No,
it was ten years ago, Menager. Was it in a
home or in a commercial setting? Ransom? I met girls
commercially in home settings? Menager? Where did you meet these
two other girls that you described as being frightened? Ransom?
I can't remember, Menager? What is redacted's last name? Ransom?
I don't know, Menager? What does redacted look like? Ransom?
She's got long blonde hair, Menager? How long? Ransom? Long
long hair? Menager? Longer than your hair now? Ransom? I
think so. I think it was longer, Menager, so middle
of her back? Ransom, I can't remember. I can't remember
on how long her hair was? Menager? Where did you
meet redacted? Ransom? I met redacted first in New York? Menager?
Where in New York? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager anywhere
in New York. You can't remember at all? Answer, I
can't remember the location, Menager. Was it at Epstein's home?
Gergis objection. You have asked her now almost twenty questions
about where she met these girls, and she has consistently
said that she does not remember. Manager, Was it in
mister Epstein's home? Ransom? No, Menager? Was it at a club?
Mister gergis are we going to spend seven hours with her? Saying?
I can't remember where she met the two girls? Menager?
Was it at a club? Ransom? One was at a club? Menager?
Which one? Ransom? Redacted? Menager? Where did you meet redacted? Ransom?
I first met redacted on the island? Menager. Did you
meet her a second time? Ransom? Yes? Menager? Where did
you meet her the second time? Ransom? I can't remember, Menager?
Country Ransom, well us? Sorry? Can I have a break?
I actually need to go to the bathroom. Sorry, Menager,
I don't think I have a question pending. We'll go
off the record now. After a fifteen minute break, they're back, Menager.
So I want to return to your conversations with miss Callahan.
Conversations with Miss Callahan? Did you have any further communications
with her after the phone call that you described? Ransom?
There were I think a few emails exchange, but nothing
ever came about it, Menager. And again those are emails
from your Yahoo account. Ransom. Yes, Menager. Did you ask
miss Callahan for compensation in exchange for your story. McCauley
objection asked, an answered ransom, no menager. Had you seen
any other stories in the press about Jeffrey Epstein Ransom
through the last ten years, I've seen a few articles
written about Jeffrey Epstein. Manager. What do you call about
those articles? Ransom? The way he used to abuse girls?
Basically articles written very similar to my own story? Well identical,
so manager, and have you written down your story? Ransom?
No manager, nowhere, ransom, no menager nowhere, ransom no. All right, folks,
we're gonna wrap up part two here and in the
next episode we're gonna pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box.