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<v Speaker 2>Hey, folks.

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<v Speaker 1>We are recording at Chainleing Smart Coon event and joining

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<v Speaker 1>me is Patrick Witt, who is the executive director of

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<v Speaker 1>the President's Council of Advisors for Digital Assets.

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<v Speaker 2>Patrick. Great to have you, Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to be here, Patrick, I was looking forward today's

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<v Speaker 1>conversation all day because a lot of eyes are on

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<v Speaker 1>the Market Structure Bill and what's happening in DC. Tell

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<v Speaker 1>us a bit about what you're doing and any updates

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<v Speaker 1>around the.

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<v Speaker 2>Market Structure Bill.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm pretty much camping out on Capitol Hill these days.

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<v Speaker 3>It feels like going from office to office and dealing

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<v Speaker 3>with both Banking Committee members and ad Committee members. Very encouraged,

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<v Speaker 3>especially over the past few weeks, some of the traction

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<v Speaker 3>that we're getting with different offices, different members who are

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<v Speaker 3>really starting to engage. You know, many of them have

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<v Speaker 3>been engaged for months and years, you know, on this

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<v Speaker 3>text and these different concepts. But there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>them that are you know, going to be asked to

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<v Speaker 3>vote here pretty soon and are now starting to really

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<v Speaker 3>grapple with these issues and ask for the explain and

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<v Speaker 3>kind of the you know, job aids if you will,

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<v Speaker 3>to help them understand the bill.

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<v Speaker 2>And what it does.

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<v Speaker 3>Nobody wants to get this wrong, you know, and so

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<v Speaker 3>as you get closer to a vote, kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>sharpens the focus. But very encouraged Republicans and Democrats are

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<v Speaker 3>engaging with this this text now offering you know, improvements,

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<v Speaker 3>edits asking good questions, and I think we're going to

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<v Speaker 3>get there. But you know, clock's ticking, and we're trying

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<v Speaker 3>to keep the pressure on. Gentle pressure, but make sure

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<v Speaker 3>that folks know what a priority this is for the

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<v Speaker 3>president and for my boss David Sachs.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>If you heard President Trump say he wants to make

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<v Speaker 1>America number one in cryptodigital assets, so I'm assuming him

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<v Speaker 1>making those statements is lighting some fire or on the

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<v Speaker 1>deceits of some of these folks to get things done.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, he said it again just the other night on

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<v Speaker 3>sixty Minutes, you know, reiterating that commitment that he made

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<v Speaker 3>on the campaign trail, and he means it, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, he understands what an engine this is for

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<v Speaker 3>American growth. You know, our economy, the innovation engine, you

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<v Speaker 3>know that it unleashes. And so we're doing everything that

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<v Speaker 3>we can to to make that vision to make the

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<v Speaker 3>US the crypto capital of the world, or as David

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<v Speaker 3>likes to say, of the planet, you know, a reality.

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<v Speaker 3>So every day I wake up, you know, wondering about

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<v Speaker 3>what we can do to move the ball forward, not

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<v Speaker 3>only on Capitol Hill with the legislation, though that's definitely

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<v Speaker 3>taken up you know, the vast majority of my time,

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<v Speaker 3>but also with inner agency actions and guidance and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>removing regulations or previous policy statements from from the Biden

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<v Speaker 3>you know, Gensler Elizabeth Warren era that we're still trying

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<v Speaker 3>to to, you know, remove some of the vestiges from I.

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<v Speaker 1>Have so much trauma from that era, being in the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto industry, and it's a breath of fresh air under

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<v Speaker 1>this administration to have the openness to innovate and to build,

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<v Speaker 1>and I see a lot of entrepreneurs are breathing a

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<v Speaker 1>sigh relief and they feel more optimistic about where things

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<v Speaker 1>are at.

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<v Speaker 3>We're you know, we're working hard to make sure that

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<v Speaker 3>there is appropriate regulatory clarity, you know, with DOJ, with

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<v Speaker 3>Deputy Attorney General Blanche's memo that he put out in April,

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<v Speaker 3>ensuring that we're reversing course and making sure that we're

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<v Speaker 3>not criminalizing innovation, right, and so I think that's providing

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<v Speaker 3>the protection and the certainty that innovators, developers need in

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<v Speaker 3>order to build their products here, because.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what we want.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, everything that we do we filter through the

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<v Speaker 3>lens of is this going to drive innovation offshore? And

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<v Speaker 3>if it does, then you know, we need to think

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<v Speaker 3>very very hard about whether we want to pursue that path,

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<v Speaker 3>because I think the misconception that the you know, again

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<v Speaker 3>the Genstler, you know, the Warren crowd had is that

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<v Speaker 3>if we just you know, stiff arm crypto, it's ultimately

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<v Speaker 3>going to kill the industry. Well it didn't. That proved

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<v Speaker 3>to definitely be incorrect. It just drove it off shore.

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<v Speaker 3>So do we want to be number two or you know,

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<v Speaker 3>a distant third, or perhaps even farther down the ladder,

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<v Speaker 3>or do we want to dominate this industry as we

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<v Speaker 3>have dominated the financial you know, ecosystem for the past,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, one hundred years.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is the future.

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<v Speaker 3>We've got to make sure that we retain the United

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<v Speaker 3>States place of primacy in it. And that's what we're

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<v Speaker 3>committed to doing every day.

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<v Speaker 1>Many are calling the time we're in the Fourth Industrial

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<v Speaker 1>Revolution where you have the convergence of different technologies crypto, blockchain, AI,

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<v Speaker 1>new space exploration opportunities. Is that how the administration is

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<v Speaker 1>looking at it, that we are in the midst of

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<v Speaker 1>the next tech boom and could be incredible for the

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<v Speaker 1>United States to create wealth, jobs, and much more.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you mentioned, I think that's exactly right. You mentioned

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<v Speaker 3>a few of them. Crypto obviously, you know, my primary focus,

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<v Speaker 3>but also AI the other side of the house under

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<v Speaker 3>David you know, I would throw in there as you

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned the space race, some of the defense tech innovations

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<v Speaker 3>that are taking place with autonomy, you know, there's there's

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<v Speaker 3>a number of others. Probably bio would be another area

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<v Speaker 3>where these you know, different molecules, and AI has a

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<v Speaker 3>lot to do with that too, with some of the

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<v Speaker 3>development of different medicines. Sure, it's it's an incredibly exciting

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<v Speaker 3>time to be alive, and so I think it's appropriate

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<v Speaker 3>to call it the fourth Industrial Revolution.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's not just one.

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<v Speaker 3>There's there's many different ones happening in a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>different fields, and they're unlocked by these different technologies that

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<v Speaker 3>cut across them.

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<v Speaker 1>But it feels that blockchain may have a bigger reach

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<v Speaker 1>because it seems like it's going to be the fabric,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like the Internet, another layering that the economy,

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<v Speaker 1>the markets will all run in because you see Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Street firms and banks now looking at stable coins, tokenization,

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<v Speaker 1>and much more.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would say there's the point that I make,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, when when talking with folks, you know, when

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<v Speaker 3>we're regulating crypto right now. You know, cryptocurrency is one application.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously it's you know, the one that most people know

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<v Speaker 3>when it comes to blockchain, but what we're doing also

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<v Speaker 3>has implications for you know, decentralized infrastructure projects, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Helium and these others that are approaching, you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>buildouts of different infrastructure using decentralized you know, blockchain models.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's going to be a lot more that

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<v Speaker 3>pop up in that space. So very excited about what

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<v Speaker 3>that could do. And you think about, you know, autonomous

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<v Speaker 3>vehicle fleets for exams. You know, there's different ways that

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<v Speaker 3>you could conceptualize business models that crypto and decentralized blockchains

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<v Speaker 3>and applications can can enable. So I'm incredibly bullish about

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<v Speaker 3>the future. But that's why it's so important that the

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<v Speaker 3>Market Structure Bill that we get done here provides those

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<v Speaker 3>developer protections, allows people to innovate here at home so

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<v Speaker 3>that they could build these products and these companies in America.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you anticipating once this bill makes it the

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<v Speaker 1>President Trump he signs it into law, we see massive

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<v Speaker 1>innovation here in the United States.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's going to be a lot of folks

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<v Speaker 3>that continue to resure. We've already seen some of them.

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<v Speaker 3>And I point to, you know, the Genius Act that

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<v Speaker 3>we got passed for stable points. You know what happened

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<v Speaker 3>shortly thereafter Tether decided to open up their US operations.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, So I think that kind of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>flash to bang, clear connection between the two is what

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<v Speaker 3>we want to see.

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<v Speaker 2>And we love telling good news stories.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, anyone that comes in to meet with us

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<v Speaker 3>in our office, we always make sure to tell them,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, if there's a good news story to tell,

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<v Speaker 3>we want to amplify it. Because there are very few

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<v Speaker 3>times when you actually get to pass a particular you know,

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<v Speaker 3>piece of legislation, or repeal a policy, or pass a

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<v Speaker 3>new regulation that you then immediately see the benefits that

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<v Speaker 3>come from it. But we're seeing that very much in

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<v Speaker 3>this industry because you know, it's it's such a one

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<v Speaker 3>eighty from the treatment that it got previously that you know, folks,

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<v Speaker 3>folks are excited, they're grateful. You know, they come in

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<v Speaker 3>and they think, you know, they thank us, but really

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<v Speaker 3>they should be thanking President Trump and David for setting

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<v Speaker 3>the tone in the direction, and we're just there to execute.

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<v Speaker 3>We're on the front lines, you know, trying to lead

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<v Speaker 3>it forward, but the direction comes from the top.

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<v Speaker 1>You know what it feels like, Patrick, if my history

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<v Speaker 1>is correct here nineteen nineties President Clinton and I believe

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<v Speaker 1>Al Gore, they got to write with the Telecom Bill

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<v Speaker 1>at which allowed the Internet to flourish, and it feels

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<v Speaker 1>like we're at that moment for blockchain and crypto.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's exactly right.

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<v Speaker 3>Brad garling House brought that up this morning when I

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<v Speaker 3>was talking with him, you know, and the point that

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<v Speaker 3>we were making is, you know, we need to establish

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<v Speaker 3>the appropriate safeguards, you know, the rails here to ensure

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<v Speaker 3>that we're not overburdening the industry. But we're providing that

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<v Speaker 3>you know, efficient frontier of regulation that will allow these

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<v Speaker 3>markets to flourish. And you know, back then they did

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<v Speaker 3>exactly that, right, It was a base layer of regulation

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<v Speaker 3>and rules of the road that allowed the Internet industry

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<v Speaker 3>and everything that was enabled by the Internet to grow there.

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<v Speaker 3>But you know, twenty years from now, I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>anyone can predict exactly, you know, what the future will

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<v Speaker 3>hold for you know, blockchain, for crypto. So we need

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<v Speaker 3>to make sure that there's appropriate play in the joints

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<v Speaker 3>and there's the ability for the you know, regulatory framework

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<v Speaker 3>to adapt to all of the things that are coming

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<v Speaker 3>you know, down the pike that we can't even predict

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<v Speaker 3>right now. You know, who could have predicted exactly what

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<v Speaker 3>the Internet would do and enable in the late nineties now,

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<v Speaker 3>So we need to make sure that what we're doing

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<v Speaker 3>allows for that appropriate level of adaptation and evolution that

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<v Speaker 3>will inevitably happen in this industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, I'm very fascinated how government will adopt blockchain

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<v Speaker 1>technology and maybe solve some of the legacy issues, will

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<v Speaker 1>current issues that we deal with it and which we

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<v Speaker 1>may may become the legacy issues for example, blockchain with voting,

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<v Speaker 1>blockchain for payments via whatever it is, IRS, tax payments

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth, and even with communications more more out

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<v Speaker 1>trust in communicating with the government and agencies are there

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<v Speaker 1>talks with David Sachs and other folks about integrating blockchain

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<v Speaker 1>in these things?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think you saw it already with commerce, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Secretary Lutnik, you know, putting some of the economic data

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<v Speaker 3>on chain, they publish that on chain. I think there's

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<v Speaker 3>going to be more of a movement to get other

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<v Speaker 3>government data on chain. I mean, the government has tremendous

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<v Speaker 3>amounts of data that are out there that putting that

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<v Speaker 3>on chain, they can then integrate through oracles into different

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<v Speaker 3>applications and use that data.

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<v Speaker 2>Couple that with you know, the AI element of it.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, you've got this massive trove of data and

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<v Speaker 3>now you've got the engine that can parse it and

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<v Speaker 3>develop real insights off of that.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm passionate about other areas that we can you know,

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<v Speaker 3>enhance our cybersecurity, you know, and also deliver products and

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<v Speaker 3>services to citizens, you know, in a way that's more efficient. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you mentioned some of the benefits you know

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<v Speaker 3>that could potentially be distributed in a more secure way

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<v Speaker 3>that can also root out a lot of waste, fraud,

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<v Speaker 3>and abuse that might exist in the system. I'm thinking

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<v Speaker 3>healthcare in particular, right, you know, benefits distribution. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the possibilities are endless.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 3>The difficulty we have is trying to filter through all

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<v Speaker 3>the different opportunities that we could pursue because your bandwidth

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<v Speaker 3>is limited and so you're trying to get the biggest

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<v Speaker 3>bang for your buck. But that's a trend that's going

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<v Speaker 3>to continue beyond just this administration.

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<v Speaker 1>My ideal scenario from my own perspective, of course, is

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<v Speaker 1>that having blockchain integrated with my tax payments, voting, my

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<v Speaker 1>digital identity and just makes things more efficient and whether

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<v Speaker 1>I'm interacting with the federal agencies or whatever it is,

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<v Speaker 1>is just faster and more secure, and yeah, hopefully also

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<v Speaker 1>curb some of the wasteful spending if you put things

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<v Speaker 1>onto blocked. I know Elon tried to do that, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think maybe eventually we'll get there.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm hopeful. I think we will definitely make improvements. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's we as citizens have every right to

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<v Speaker 3>demand that our government, you know, not only delivers certain services,

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<v Speaker 3>but delivers them in a customer you know, friendly way,

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<v Speaker 3>right right, And there hasn't been as much attention paid

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<v Speaker 3>to that. Uh. Joe Gebbia, you know, uh, founder of

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<v Speaker 3>Airbnb has kind of been you know, it got some

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<v Speaker 3>press a few weeks ago or months ago, I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>remembering the exact timeframe, but it's kind of this you know,

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<v Speaker 3>chief chief customer, you know experience officer like you know,

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<v Speaker 3>citizen experience officer. So, uh, he's got some interesting ideas

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<v Speaker 3>and some projects that he's pursuing to enhance, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the the interaction of citizens with their government. So I

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<v Speaker 3>think block chain is absolutely a technology that can be

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<v Speaker 3>used to get after some of those problems. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>more to come on that. But you know, we're thinking

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<v Speaker 3>about government differently. We're thinking about you know, the relationship

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<v Speaker 3>of citizens to their government differently in a way that

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<v Speaker 3>I think everybody's going to benefit from. It's not partisan

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of the day. You know, folks have

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<v Speaker 3>every right to demand that their government is responsive to

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<v Speaker 3>them and as efficient as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well said.

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<v Speaker 1>A big topic that folks are very curious about is

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<v Speaker 1>the big strategic Bitcoin reserve. What can you tell us

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<v Speaker 1>there as far as the process of identifying revenue sources

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<v Speaker 1>to buy and set up that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so you know, kind of two parts to it.

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<v Speaker 3>Number one, we've got to get the custody and kind

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<v Speaker 3>of the safeguarding of the existing assets right with those

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<v Speaker 3>that have been seized, you know, the different sieging agencies

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<v Speaker 3>make sure that they can centralize those over at the Treasury,

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<v Speaker 3>put in place appropriate cybersecurity protocols sure to ensure that

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<v Speaker 3>those assets are you know, safely kept. And then second,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, having discussions with different agents ncies about creative

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<v Speaker 3>ways that we can in a budget neutral fashion, add

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<v Speaker 3>bitcoin and other digital assets potentially to the balance sheet.

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<v Speaker 3>So my other hat over at the Department of War

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<v Speaker 3>is as the acting director of the Office of Strategic Capital.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, that's a large federal credit program with two

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<v Speaker 3>hundred billion dollars balance sheet. You know, there's interesting ideas

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<v Speaker 3>that are being kicked around about ways that you could

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<v Speaker 3>potentially over capitalize some of the loans that the government

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<v Speaker 3>is making, you know, not just in the Dow space,

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<v Speaker 3>but also you know fhf A, you know, on housing loans,

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<v Speaker 3>because you know, we want you know, digital assets on

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<v Speaker 3>the government balance sheet, we also want them in the

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<v Speaker 3>hands of everyday Americans, and so one of the ways

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<v Speaker 3>that we could do that is potentially through you know,

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<v Speaker 3>housing and urban development and some of the loans that

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<v Speaker 3>the government is making there, so early days of discussions there,

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<v Speaker 3>but I know that there's interesting, innovative, you know, forward

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<v Speaker 3>thinking folks at these different agencies who when you have

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<v Speaker 3>some of these discussions, they don't go, oh, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>reject them out right, They say, huh, that's interesting. Let's

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<v Speaker 3>have another talk, you know, discussion about that, sure, and

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<v Speaker 3>see if we can move out on it. So you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we have we have the right mindset of folks in

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<v Speaker 3>this administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any chance, terror for if you could potentially

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<v Speaker 1>be used to buy some of these.

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<v Speaker 3>Assets potentially, I haven't had that conversation, but yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>would say all options are on the table. And again,

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<v Speaker 3>we have some creative folks, uh, you know, deal makers,

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<v Speaker 3>business people, whether that's Secretary lut Neck over at the Pentagon,

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<v Speaker 3>Deputy Secretary Fineberg, you know, obviously Secretary Besson at Treasury.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, these are these.

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<v Speaker 3>Are folks that are are creative in their thinking and uh,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, deep business minded oriented folks. So I think

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<v Speaker 3>that there's going to be exciting discussions that happen in

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<v Speaker 3>the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Patrick, thank you so much for taking a time. I

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<v Speaker 1>would love to have you back on as things progress

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Fringers crossed this market structure bill goes through.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we'll talk again once the bill is done. Thank

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<v Speaker 3>you so much for the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Awesome, Thank you so much. This episode is brought to

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