WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofits, and today we're going to discuss

2
00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:10.560
<v Speaker 1>a semi scientific, pseudo scientific magical mystery tour. I'll leave

3
00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:13.400
<v Speaker 1>the rest to Jonathan. Jonathan, what do you have for us?

4
00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:17.480
<v Speaker 2>This story summarizes a hypothesis put forward by a physicist

5
00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:21.640
<v Speaker 2>who has a PhD from Harvard in physics. Doctor Michael

6
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Pravoca has specialties in explosives, high pressure science, raman spectroscopy.

7
00:00:28.879 --> 00:00:30.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to make a problem with that word infra

8
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:35.759
<v Speaker 2>red and nuclear magnetic residence and X ray spectroscopies and

9
00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:40.039
<v Speaker 2>accelerator physics. He believes not. He does not profess any

10
00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:44.000
<v Speaker 2>proof here that hyperdimensionality more than four dimensions of space

11
00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:47.359
<v Speaker 2>time may hold the key to explaining consciousness. He expands

12
00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:51.439
<v Speaker 2>on his hypothesis to say that string theory uses up

13
00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.960
<v Speaker 2>to eleven dimensions to make it possible mathematically to exist

14
00:00:56.000 --> 00:01:01.479
<v Speaker 2>as a viable model. That's my paraphrasing. The article says

15
00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:05.519
<v Speaker 2>that string theory would allow for extra dimensions required for

16
00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.680
<v Speaker 2>a dimension of consciousness. Is this just speculation or a daydream?

17
00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Or is there any there there?

18
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:11.599
<v Speaker 3>So?

19
00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.680
<v Speaker 2>What do you think? The story is? From earth dot

20
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Com by Eric Rowls on September twenty first, twenty twenty four.

21
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Thanks Jonathan Neil for me, it sounded like another example

22
00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:27.799
<v Speaker 1>as we usually see a religion hijacking an understanding of science.

23
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Are often a misunderstanding of science and using those scientific

24
00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:38.239
<v Speaker 1>methods or those scientific hypothesis or theories and trying to

25
00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.480
<v Speaker 1>comblet together to explain something that religion says happen but

26
00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.159
<v Speaker 1>doesn't explain. What do you think?

27
00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:45.760
<v Speaker 3>Is that?

28
00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:47.319
<v Speaker 1>What you think that this guy's doing?

29
00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Well? When I read this article, it started out pretty good,

30
00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:53.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, like, Okay, this is this, this is this,

31
00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.000
<v Speaker 2>this is what you know? And I know not a lot,

32
00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:58.640
<v Speaker 2>but a little bit about string theory, and yeah, there's

33
00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:01.719
<v Speaker 2>in some versions of it, there's eleven dimensions that are

34
00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:04.719
<v Speaker 2>wrapped tightly around strings and that sort of thing. But

35
00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:10.000
<v Speaker 2>to say that it has anything to do with your consciousness,

36
00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.879
<v Speaker 2>to me is a huge leap with no evidence. And

37
00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:18.960
<v Speaker 2>then he goes into and admitting that he is a Christian,

38
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.120
<v Speaker 2>He's an orthodox Christian, and it makes me believe that

39
00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:27.319
<v Speaker 2>this is to say is trying to say his mythology

40
00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.360
<v Speaker 2>might be true if this theory is true, but he

41
00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:34.199
<v Speaker 2>has no evidence that consciousness has anything to do with

42
00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.759
<v Speaker 2>other dimensions or what the connection is between them, and

43
00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:40.280
<v Speaker 2>at least none that I was able to discern, and

44
00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:45.759
<v Speaker 2>other dimensions if they actually exist anywhere else but in

45
00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.840
<v Speaker 2>the math. At this point and his imagination, it still

46
00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:52.400
<v Speaker 2>doesn't prove that consciousness has anything to do with it.

47
00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.840
<v Speaker 2>The other thing is that he's not really qualified to

48
00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:58.039
<v Speaker 2>talk about consciousness. That bothers me a lot because he

49
00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:04.560
<v Speaker 2>has no information about brain chemistry, brain function. fMRI studies,

50
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:10.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, all the current theory on that's and being

51
00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:15.240
<v Speaker 2>developed on consciousness and the brain and how that interacts

52
00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.960
<v Speaker 2>and how it emerges from the complex system. So it's

53
00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:21.479
<v Speaker 2>like they're still researching all that, but he has no

54
00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.680
<v Speaker 2>experience in any of that. So how are you going

55
00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:28.599
<v Speaker 2>to tie consciousness into abstract theoretical physics which has not

56
00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:34.039
<v Speaker 2>been actually proven to be correct yet. It's kind of like, okay,

57
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:37.840
<v Speaker 2>you know quantum you know, they need a theory of

58
00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>quantum gravity to complete the unification of general relativity and

59
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.800
<v Speaker 2>quantum mechanics. But completing that would we'd have the you know,

60
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.879
<v Speaker 2>the complete life, the universe and everything. And the answer

61
00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.680
<v Speaker 2>is not forty two. For those of you were fans

62
00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:54.360
<v Speaker 2>of Douglass, that.

63
00:03:54.639 --> 00:03:58.520
<v Speaker 1>To everyone who heard Jonathan say that it's not forty two.

64
00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.919
<v Speaker 1>Just disregard that he does not speak for the ACA

65
00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.479
<v Speaker 1>or the rest of the people on this program, because

66
00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.000
<v Speaker 1>everyone knows it actually is forty two. But you know,

67
00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:09.800
<v Speaker 1>I know somebody.

68
00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Else who says that all the time too. Everybody knows that,

69
00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:14.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean, because it's true.

70
00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:19.279
<v Speaker 1>But you know, I noticed that Michael implied that Jesus

71
00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.199
<v Speaker 1>may be a hyper dimensional entity. I know he said,

72
00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:25.360
<v Speaker 1>according to the Bible, Jesus ascended into heaven forty days

73
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:27.639
<v Speaker 1>after being on earth. How do you ascend to heaven

74
00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:31.279
<v Speaker 1>if you're a four dimensional creature? Well, yeah, I'd like

75
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to know that too. So I thought they had enough

76
00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:36.560
<v Speaker 1>trouble to prove in Jesus in four dimensions. I don't

77
00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:38.399
<v Speaker 1>know why they're trying to throw a few extra ones on.

78
00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.759
<v Speaker 1>But what do you think about him saying that, Eli,

79
00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:41.920
<v Speaker 1>What were your thoughts?

80
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:44.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So, firstly, I'm really kind of just hoping that

81
00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:47.360
<v Speaker 3>the article just didn't do him justice in his argument,

82
00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.240
<v Speaker 3>because I would expect somebody with such a pedigree to

83
00:04:50.360 --> 00:04:54.600
<v Speaker 3>formulate a better hypothesis for anything, to know that like, hey,

84
00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.720
<v Speaker 3>this is not this doesn't hold out. There's a huge

85
00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.480
<v Speaker 3>leap here, and like, the question is that the sparks

86
00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:05.240
<v Speaker 3>from me, like, Okay, hold on, what does like? I

87
00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.480
<v Speaker 3>don't even know where to start. Honestly, it's so difficult.

88
00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:11.120
<v Speaker 3>It leads me to what does like? How what is

89
00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:14.759
<v Speaker 3>the correct number of dimensions to ascend to heaven? How

90
00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:18.639
<v Speaker 3>do you know that? How do like? It's just there's

91
00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.680
<v Speaker 3>it's really hard for me to figure out where to start,

92
00:05:22.199 --> 00:05:26.519
<v Speaker 3>and he it's I don't know what it is about

93
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.959
<v Speaker 3>four dimensions that makes you incapable of visiting to heaven.

94
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:30.839
<v Speaker 3>I don't know what it is about other numbers of

95
00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:34.959
<v Speaker 3>dimensions that make you capable. And the article quotes some

96
00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.879
<v Speaker 3>of pravacas peers as saying, like, well, that linking consciousness

97
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:46.040
<v Speaker 3>to hyperdimensionality and therefore to religious concepts is blurring the

98
00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:47.560
<v Speaker 3>lines a little bit. And I don't agree at all.

99
00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:52.040
<v Speaker 3>I think it's completely ignoring the lines that between empirical

100
00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:57.759
<v Speaker 3>science and personal beliefs. It's he seems to have this

101
00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.480
<v Speaker 3>idea that Okay, Jesus went to and Jesus is different

102
00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:03.879
<v Speaker 3>from us? How is Jesus different from us? Well, he

103
00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:07.279
<v Speaker 3>must have more dimensions and you just have to ask him.

104
00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.480
<v Speaker 3>Where are you getting that how do you get from

105
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.800
<v Speaker 3>Jesus as different to more dimensions? We need that work

106
00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.079
<v Speaker 3>in between, and maybe he has it. And like I said,

107
00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:18.360
<v Speaker 3>the article just didn't do him justice. But it's not

108
00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:19.600
<v Speaker 3>it's at least not here.

109
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:21.839
<v Speaker 1>If that is the best that he has to offer,

110
00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.360
<v Speaker 1>he's not doing very well. But also, in fairness to

111
00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:27.519
<v Speaker 1>the writer of the article, I don't know if I've

112
00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:31.519
<v Speaker 1>ever heard anyone lay out anything even remotely cogent trying

113
00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:36.639
<v Speaker 1>to rationalize a proof for evidence that Jesus ascended to heaven. Now,

114
00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.240
<v Speaker 1>you might make a case for Jesus being a person

115
00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.240
<v Speaker 1>that existed, that's one thing, and I'm a little dubious

116
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.800
<v Speaker 1>on that admittedly, But when you say Jesus ascended to heaven,

117
00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.360
<v Speaker 1>then you've created a whole new thing because we know

118
00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:52.879
<v Speaker 1>people existed. We know people name you're sure existed in

119
00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:56.600
<v Speaker 1>that timeframe. So that's not that much of a stretch. Well,

120
00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.240
<v Speaker 1>once we jump in, once we jump into heaven, we're

121
00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:01.800
<v Speaker 1>in a whole different ball game. Then we don't even

122
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.759
<v Speaker 1>know what that means. Yeah, how many dimensions? As Eli said,

123
00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.199
<v Speaker 1>how many dimensions do we need to go to? Heavens?

124
00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Is one the thor of Hammer and two voltron sword

125
00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:15.639
<v Speaker 1>and three toz. How does this work? It really doesn't

126
00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:17.720
<v Speaker 1>make a lot of sense. But honestly, one of the

127
00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:21.439
<v Speaker 1>reasons I chose this article initially was the sheer number

128
00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:23.519
<v Speaker 1>of logical fallacies in it. So I just want to

129
00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:26.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of throw it out to you, starting with you, Jonathan,

130
00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:28.480
<v Speaker 1>what are some of the logical fallacies you saw in

131
00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:31.680
<v Speaker 1>this guy's argument, because he really made some serious leaps.

132
00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.319
<v Speaker 1>Forget God of the Gaps, this is God of the dimensions.

133
00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, I know, yeah, just a couple of them are

134
00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the obvious ones. Appeal to authority, hasty generalizations like you

135
00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:54.959
<v Speaker 2>said in your notes, and the intentional obscuring of any

136
00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:58.800
<v Speaker 2>source of where his ideas come from as they jumped

137
00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:01.439
<v Speaker 2>from one place to another. And there's just this, you know,

138
00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:05.360
<v Speaker 2>a huge gap between it's a huge red herring between

139
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.800
<v Speaker 2>this and that. You know, it's either a red herring

140
00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:11.040
<v Speaker 2>or just a huge non sequitur, you know, And and

141
00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.399
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of like the non secutor is probably the

142
00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:18.160
<v Speaker 2>biggest one I see, because Jesus, as a fifth dimensional

143
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:23.720
<v Speaker 2>being is a non secutor from eleven mensions and Jesus,

144
00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:26.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, there's there's how do you get there? You know,

145
00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:30.279
<v Speaker 2>there's nothing in between. You know, it's like, please, just

146
00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:34.840
<v Speaker 2>because some old mythology says something does not mean that

147
00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.080
<v Speaker 2>it actually happened, and therefore you can take it and

148
00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and and try and plug it into some new fangled pseudoscience,

149
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.440
<v Speaker 2>trying to tie it into a one of many theories

150
00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.840
<v Speaker 2>that are being tested to give us the parts we

151
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:55.919
<v Speaker 2>need to get a theory of everything. There are other

152
00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.559
<v Speaker 2>ones as well, so it's like, yeah, okay, if this

153
00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:00.639
<v Speaker 2>one makes it easy for you to up around and

154
00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and gyrate and and make your twist your ideas to

155
00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:07.399
<v Speaker 2>fit into even roughly into this, which I don't think

156
00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.840
<v Speaker 2>it does very well. But it's just come on, guys,

157
00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.559
<v Speaker 2>you know better than this. Give us some more. Give us,

158
00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.120
<v Speaker 2>give us, you know, do your work, show us your work.

159
00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Where did this come from? You know, if you don't

160
00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:22.240
<v Speaker 2>show us your work, we don't know how you got there.

161
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.679
<v Speaker 2>And if we don't know how you got there, I

162
00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.519
<v Speaker 2>am really not going to believe you. So that's pretty

163
00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:28.639
<v Speaker 2>much all I have to say on.

164
00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:32.000
<v Speaker 1>He lighted, he covered pretty much all the logical fallacies

165
00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.679
<v Speaker 1>that you saw. Is one that stuck out to you

166
00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:35.279
<v Speaker 1>as well?

167
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:37.399
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, there is sort of it seems like it's

168
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.600
<v Speaker 3>sort of based on this idea that I feel like

169
00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:41.559
<v Speaker 3>I've seen a lot where it's like, oh, well, the

170
00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.320
<v Speaker 3>cause is just something that we just we God works

171
00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:49.080
<v Speaker 3>in mysterious ways sort of thing, right, So it gives

172
00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:51.480
<v Speaker 3>this actually kind of gives me the opportunity to clarify

173
00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:53.399
<v Speaker 3>something that I was talking about in the comments of

174
00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:57.000
<v Speaker 3>another clip. So he kind of bakes his idea that,

175
00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.879
<v Speaker 3>like our our senses are limited, we can't sense everything

176
00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.639
<v Speaker 3>about the universe, and therefore our perception is limited. So

177
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:06.759
<v Speaker 3>there's going to be some things that we miss, some

178
00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.440
<v Speaker 3>things that happen with some phenomenon in the universe that

179
00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.879
<v Speaker 3>we just don't notice right away. I don't think that

180
00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:17.240
<v Speaker 3>that means that things are unmeasurable, just means that because

181
00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.399
<v Speaker 3>like to detect, to observe something directly with our senses

182
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.639
<v Speaker 3>is not the only way to know that something exists,

183
00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Like most of modern physics is either is the mathematical

184
00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:33.679
<v Speaker 3>result of something else that has been experimentally confirmed that

185
00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.399
<v Speaker 3>just has not yet been experimentally confirmed but is close

186
00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:39.360
<v Speaker 3>to being, or or not it's hard to say close

187
00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.799
<v Speaker 3>to being, but like very likely going to be because

188
00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.240
<v Speaker 3>it fits with the rest of the theory that we have.

189
00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.480
<v Speaker 3>What he has here is basically saying that like, oh, well,

190
00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:52.240
<v Speaker 3>these extra dimensions, we just can't see them for some reason.

191
00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.360
<v Speaker 3>And then he's making up that reason by saying, and

192
00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:56.080
<v Speaker 3>a quote from the Arquay here is saying, is the

193
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:59.919
<v Speaker 3>extra dimensions aren't easily observed because they might become past

194
00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.279
<v Speaker 3>defied or curled up. Its skills so small they're beyond

195
00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:06.799
<v Speaker 3>our current ability to detect. And that's just conjecture. It's

196
00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.240
<v Speaker 3>it's this sort of it's honestly sort of this reskin

197
00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.639
<v Speaker 3>of turtles all the way down, because if you're saying, like, oh, well,

198
00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.000
<v Speaker 3>you know the cause is something, it's just so small,

199
00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:17.639
<v Speaker 3>like well, there's a cause for this, and a cause

200
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.399
<v Speaker 3>for this, and a cause for this, but what's the

201
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.600
<v Speaker 3>fundamental cause. Well, it's just so small that you can't

202
00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:23.759
<v Speaker 3>see it. God works in mysterious ways. Turtles all the

203
00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:26.159
<v Speaker 3>way down. It doesn't like you pick the way you

204
00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.720
<v Speaker 3>want to phrase it. It's it's probably yeah, I guess

205
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.159
<v Speaker 3>John didn't cover it's argument from ignorance, and they're just

206
00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.600
<v Speaker 3>reskinning it in different ways.

207
00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:36.320
<v Speaker 1>I would have to say that for me reading the

208
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.879
<v Speaker 1>first time, I couldn't help but think that this is

209
00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:43.320
<v Speaker 1>pretty much a status quo. Oftentimes Christians in particular will

210
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.039
<v Speaker 1>spend a lot of time talking about things other than

211
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.639
<v Speaker 1>their God and other than their Bible to prove their

212
00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:51.840
<v Speaker 1>God's real, which seems odd to me, because if your

213
00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.559
<v Speaker 1>God's real and so evident, it's hard for me to

214
00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.720
<v Speaker 1>imagine why you need to come up with half a

215
00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:03.279
<v Speaker 1>dozen dozen more dimensions and abercadabra alek exam and here

216
00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:06.600
<v Speaker 1>comes Baltimore. Because really it gets to the point where

217
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.480
<v Speaker 1>you're reading what this guy says and it sounds like

218
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:12.639
<v Speaker 1>mediocre science fiction. It's like, you know, damn, I think

219
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.559
<v Speaker 1>I saw that on MST three k once. That's really

220
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.679
<v Speaker 1>the field of some of the things he says. But

221
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.159
<v Speaker 1>I do think that oftentimes it's it is that attempt

222
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:25.320
<v Speaker 1>to avoid actually talking about their lack of evidence. And Jonathan,

223
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:26.519
<v Speaker 1>I was just kind of wonder what your.

224
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Thoughts were, just if you're going to if you're going

225
00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.159
<v Speaker 2>to write a paper, or you're going to do something

226
00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.600
<v Speaker 2>that's outside your field, because there are lots of sub

227
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:39.360
<v Speaker 2>fields within physics, and as I listed this gentleman's it

228
00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean he doesn't have information about that. But if

229
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.120
<v Speaker 2>you're only going to list those and not the ones

230
00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.720
<v Speaker 2>that pertain to the subject matter you're doing, then theoretical

231
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:53.480
<v Speaker 2>physics covers things like string theory already in universe, things

232
00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:57.519
<v Speaker 2>like that, various theories of everything that have not been

233
00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.279
<v Speaker 2>substantially proven yet. So they call them a theory because

234
00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:06.559
<v Speaker 2>they're well developed mathematically and they have no inconsistencies mathematically,

235
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.000
<v Speaker 2>but they're not all the same. So it's like when

236
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.840
<v Speaker 2>they finally figure out a way to test these things,

237
00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, we'll find out which one of these several

238
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:17.879
<v Speaker 2>ideas and they may have eliminated a few by now.

239
00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:19.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's been a while since I've been

240
00:13:19.519 --> 00:13:22.679
<v Speaker 2>doing a lot of reading on this. But then you

241
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:27.279
<v Speaker 2>can probably start working on connecting the dots between biology,

242
00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:31.000
<v Speaker 2>which is the brain and how the brain functions, and physics,

243
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.639
<v Speaker 2>which is a bunch of forces and fields and particles

244
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.159
<v Speaker 2>and things like that. But biology's macro level a lot

245
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.039
<v Speaker 2>of what he's talking about, Like, of these dimensions, I

246
00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:45.879
<v Speaker 2>think in string theory, they're tightly wound around the strings,

247
00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:49.519
<v Speaker 2>which are a trillianth the size of anything visible with

248
00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.759
<v Speaker 2>our most powerful electron scanners. So it's like you know,

249
00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.720
<v Speaker 2>you're talking something so small, and these dimensions are supposedly

250
00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.679
<v Speaker 2>intertwined and twisted around each one of these. We'll never

251
00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.200
<v Speaker 2>be able to confirm or deny that as far as

252
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I know, at least not in my lifetime. But I

253
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:07.960
<v Speaker 2>only got ten or fifteen years left, you know, with

254
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.039
<v Speaker 2>all you young people, you're not going to sit in

255
00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:13.440
<v Speaker 2>your lifetime either, you know. So it's unless we have

256
00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, alien assistance or something. Not that I believe

257
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.759
<v Speaker 2>in aliens. But just like before, Just like before, right, not.

258
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.279
<v Speaker 3>Its dimensions all the way down.

259
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.120
<v Speaker 2>John, all the way down. But you know, so anyway,

260
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the whole idea is that how are you connecting the

261
00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:32.000
<v Speaker 2>dots between biology and physics? At this point they're not.

262
00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:36.399
<v Speaker 2>He's just he's fantasizing about how, when and if they

263
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:40.399
<v Speaker 2>ever do that, he'll find this consciousness dimension. Well, I

264
00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know, there's there's there may be a universe somewhere

265
00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:44.399
<v Speaker 2>where that's true. I don't know.

266
00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Let me say this, John, and this is very important,

267
00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:50.159
<v Speaker 1>so you should probably listen closely. My god, he can

268
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.759
<v Speaker 1>wrap strings tight around anything he wants to, whether it's

269
00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:56.720
<v Speaker 1>turtles are dimensions. Now take that?

270
00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what did he say I didn't hear any of that.

271
00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.600
<v Speaker 3>Can God build a guitar with so many strings and

272
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:05.679
<v Speaker 3>not even he can play it?

273
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:08.559
<v Speaker 1>Of course, But as long as he doesn't do it,

274
00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.080
<v Speaker 1>we're good. But I've got faith that the extra mentioned

275
00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.039
<v Speaker 1>dimensional Jesus could play it. So that's what I would

276
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:15.960
<v Speaker 1>put my money on.

277
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.120
<v Speaker 2>Now that's not a guitar, it's a sitar. Okay.

278
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:24.440
<v Speaker 1>On that note, Is there anything you'd like to close

279
00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:26.399
<v Speaker 1>up with Eli, any final thoughts?

280
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:30.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's kind of John kind of starting to touch

281
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:34.639
<v Speaker 3>on this. This guy, uh Pravac is basically just saying like, well,

282
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:38.600
<v Speaker 3>maybe the reason, like we have to grant first of all,

283
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:40.639
<v Speaker 3>which I didn't even say before, we have to grant

284
00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:44.559
<v Speaker 3>that Jesus he probably existed. I can accept that, grant

285
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.240
<v Speaker 3>that he ascended to heaven and did all the things

286
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.000
<v Speaker 3>that all the things that he didn't as send to heaven,

287
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.120
<v Speaker 3>and then grant that the reason he was capable of

288
00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.720
<v Speaker 3>doing that was because he had he was a poly

289
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.399
<v Speaker 3>hyperdimensional being. And but like he's just basically saying like, well,

290
00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:01.320
<v Speaker 3>there's probably other dimensions. Some some theoretical physicists think there's

291
00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:04.519
<v Speaker 3>other dimensions and there's consciousness. So he's like, so what,

292
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:06.840
<v Speaker 3>but it doesn't seem like and unless I haven't seen

293
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.879
<v Speaker 3>the paper, so maybe he does have some work that

294
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.679
<v Speaker 3>like mathematically demonstrates that there's some connection here. I wouldn't

295
00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.080
<v Speaker 3>understand even if I did look at it, So I'm

296
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.799
<v Speaker 3>not so I would have to find someone to kind

297
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.360
<v Speaker 3>of help me understand that's the case. But I really

298
00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.799
<v Speaker 3>think that it's so much more likely that consciousness just

299
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:28.519
<v Speaker 3>like every other thing that the living things do, because

300
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:31.559
<v Speaker 3>to my knowledge, every example we have of a conscious

301
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:36.840
<v Speaker 3>thing is also a living thing, and consciousness, I think,

302
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.279
<v Speaker 3>is an emergent property of the cells that make up

303
00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:44.080
<v Speaker 3>the organ that facilitate it. Much like reproduction or digestion

304
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:49.600
<v Speaker 3>or excretion, all of those processes are a result of

305
00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:56.320
<v Speaker 3>the interactions between the chemistry inside the living thing that

306
00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.919
<v Speaker 3>is conducting that process. Consciousness has no reason to be

307
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.320
<v Speaker 3>any different. And as I kind of I was looking

308
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.920
<v Speaker 3>into that idea because I've never really looked much into

309
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.440
<v Speaker 3>consciousness before, so I was looking into it like for

310
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.319
<v Speaker 3>this this episode, and the the what I see as

311
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:14.559
<v Speaker 3>the primary pushback on it is like, oh, well, how

312
00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:18.319
<v Speaker 3>does how do those chemical processes result in a subjective experience?

313
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.640
<v Speaker 3>And I just I don't see that as a problem.

314
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.440
<v Speaker 3>It seems like this, it's just a way that it is.

315
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.160
<v Speaker 3>You have, you know, sense neurons that send signals to

316
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.759
<v Speaker 3>neurons that interpret those signals, and then you have motor

317
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.440
<v Speaker 3>neurons and other things, and you have hormones, and you

318
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:37.960
<v Speaker 3>have you'r amigdala and tuitary glands and all these things

319
00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:39.920
<v Speaker 3>that do a bunch of different stuff in response to

320
00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:44.559
<v Speaker 3>environmental stimuli, and eventually it starts thinking about space.

321
00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.640
<v Speaker 1>They try to give it this, how does it do this?

322
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.160
<v Speaker 1>How does it do that? How does our body define

323
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.240
<v Speaker 1>what pain is? Or any of these things are? They're

324
00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.799
<v Speaker 1>they're chemical interpretations of it. So when it comes down

325
00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.799
<v Speaker 1>to our consciousness and what it's a product of, it's

326
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:03.839
<v Speaker 1>that same thing. It's nothing unique. There's no reason to

327
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.039
<v Speaker 1>make it hyperdimensional turtles all the way down to figure

328
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.279
<v Speaker 1>out why we're aware and who we are, because really,

329
00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:12.880
<v Speaker 1>when it comes down to it, I find it interesting

330
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.240
<v Speaker 1>that we have this. As you mentioned this group of people,

331
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.359
<v Speaker 1>well why is it this way? Well, not knowing why

332
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:24.079
<v Speaker 1>it's not another way isn't a disclaimer proving that it's

333
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:27.119
<v Speaker 1>not that way. So until someone showed me and Also,

334
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.680
<v Speaker 1>the other thing being is the fact that if we

335
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.920
<v Speaker 1>damage a physical brain, we get changes in that person's awareness,

336
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.920
<v Speaker 1>We get changes in that person's personality or what we

337
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:41.839
<v Speaker 1>want to loosely define as characteristics of consciousness. So if

338
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:46.680
<v Speaker 1>physical changing a physical entity can cause changes in this consciousness,

339
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.200
<v Speaker 1>what in the world could there be to imply that

340
00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:54.440
<v Speaker 1>that consciousness itself is not a product of that entity

341
00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>that you injured and changed that consciousness. It just doesn't

342
00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.240
<v Speaker 1>make sense.

343
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:01.200
<v Speaker 2>I like turtles.

344
00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.279
<v Speaker 3>I do too, That's why there's so many of them.

345
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.000
<v Speaker 1>It's probably in soup.