WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:03.080 Welcome to the River Rambler, a production of Swing the 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:17.000 Fly magazine and sponsored by Jaymon Bamboo Rods. Welcome to 3 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.559 the River Rambler, production of Swing of the Fly magazine. 4 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:24.160 Our guest today is Nate Devolved from Hood River. Nate, 5 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:25.440 thanks for taking time to visit. 6 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:28.359 Thank you. This is this would be super fun. It was. 7 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:30.039 It was great meeting up with you for the first 8 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:34.759 time on the shoots this fall and we had a riot. Yeah, 9 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.359 you know, after kind of circling each other in the 10 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:39.399 fishing community for a long time. It was great and 11 00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:42.280 I really enjoyed our conversations, you know, early in the 12 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:43.920 morning and late in the evening, and so this seems 13 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:45.960 like a great way to sort of extend that and 14 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.560 maybe give their folks a little insight into how we 15 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.159 seem to connect. I guess a little bit. 16 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.439 Well, it's it's funny. I my first connection with you, 17 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:02.439 I think was in the bag my Shamburg reel came in. 18 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:11.239 And then the second one was a wistful message from 19 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.920 you when you saw a picture of Stella Rob Perkins 20 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.400 drift boat thinking it was mine, and I was very 21 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.359 apologetic wishing it was mine and I could invite you 22 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:26.000 to float along. I'm always in heaven when I'm getting 23 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:33.760 to ride in Stella. Yeah, so tell me about You're 24 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:35.000 not a Hood River native. 25 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.879 Correct, No, I've been in Hood River for twenty four years. 26 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:43.040 I moved here in early two thousand, just after or 27 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:45.760 concurrent with finishing up college at Montana State University. 28 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:48.480 So he came from Montana. You grew up in Montana. 29 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.239 I didn't grow up Montana. I grew up in western Michigan. 30 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:55.519 So the way I described my trajectory is I'm hovering 31 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.680 about three hours north or three hours south of the 32 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.560 forty fifth parallel, but moving in Exora Blae westward. 33 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:03.519 You haven't got that much more room. 34 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:06.959 No, no, no, I'm not. There isn't much further I 35 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:07.319 can go. 36 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:09.919 And actually, right now, with river levels, you might be 37 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:11.680 pretty happy right where you are. 38 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.599 Yeah. There are times where, certainly in the winter Hood 39 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.520 River for those of you haven't been here or been 40 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.479 in town and checked it out, we're on a very 41 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:26.759 steep slope with the Hood River itself cutting diagonally through 42 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:29.919 our valley out to the Columbia. But what's interesting is 43 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.159 that in the winter, our steep hill gets to be 44 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:33.759 a bit of a liability it's pain in the ass 45 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:36.599 to get around town when we get snow. Oh yeah, roads, 46 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:41.120 But then I always think, you know, concurrently that when 47 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.360 we have giant rain events like this, I'm also kind 48 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:44.800 of glad we live on a hill because at least 49 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:47.360 most of it goes downhill quickly and out to the Columbia. 50 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.240 We don't have a lot. We have a bit this morning. 51 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.360 We're definitely we have a few roads closed. We've had 52 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:56.240 a couple of landslides on Highway thirty five on the 53 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.759 way up to Mountain Meadows and Timberline, so that's closed. 54 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.840 But generally speaking, except for up in the Upper Valley, 55 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.000 everything kind of flows downhill, so we don't get a 56 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.080 lot of the type of flooding that the folks in 57 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.400 the Seattle area and this Gadget Valley. Yeah, we're getting 58 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:11.800 right now. 59 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.960 So is the Is the Columbia looking just monstrous? 60 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.960 Everything is monstrous? Yeah. The hood is very big and 61 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:20.360 very brown red. 62 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:25.560 Somebody this morning put a video up of hood and 63 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:28.560 it was it's something. Yeah, it was as big as 64 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.000 I've ever seen it. Yeah, so growing up in Michigan, 65 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:32.840 tell me about it? 66 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:35.800 Well, I mean, geez, you know, I grew up in 67 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.400 western Michigan, which is probably the biggest reason I ended 68 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:42.919 up about west. You know, there are few Midwestern folks 69 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.479 break the forest field of staying put, but those of 70 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:49.039 us that do don't typically go back, and we tend 71 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.400 to find cool places to land. In fact, in Hood 72 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:53.280 River I can think of at least a half a 73 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:57.719 dozen or more Native Michiganders along with me, None from 74 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.479 my hometown, but many from surround areas, and they, you know, 75 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:04.800 all have landed in various places and then in Hood River. 76 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.599 So you know, I didn't really all this, the things 77 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.039 with fishing and whitewater kayaking and all this. I didn't 78 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:14.080 really interact with that stuff very much growing up in 79 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.959 western Michigan, which is unfortunate because there are you know, 80 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.519 myriad opportunities to do all of those things there that 81 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:24.000 I've I've now gone back and realized, Wow, I wish 82 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.319 I would have, you know, I would have availed myself 83 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.600 of those things then. But yeah, I mean mostly I 84 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:32.160 was just a normal urban kid. I grew up in 85 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:35.360 a town, Grand Rapids, in western Michigan, which is about 86 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:38.040 in the size of Portland, so maybe with all its 87 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:40.680 suburbs around a million people, maybe a million and a half, 88 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:43.120 and I just I kind of grew up as an 89 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.800 urban you know, And I mean, that's that's not totally true. 90 00:04:45.920 --> 00:04:49.040 I did grow up at least part of my formative years, 91 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.959 from maybe third grade through like into early high school. 92 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:54.480 I did grow up in a relatively rural part of 93 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:56.879 western Michigan, and we lived on a lake, and so 94 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:00.560 I did. I did some sort of fish, I guess 95 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.360 is you know, you'd call it that, but just fishing 96 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:06.240 for bass and and you know, bluegill and things like that. 97 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.920 But I was never someone that really liked to fish 98 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.480 or thought that that was something I'd want to pursue 99 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.240 in other places. It was just something to do because 100 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:15.360 there was literally a lake at the end of our yard, 101 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:18.560 and so that was my only real interaction with that there. 102 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:21.920 And then then obviously, you know, after high school, I 103 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:25.439 got the bug to I wanted to learn how to ski, 104 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:27.600 which is, you know, there's not a lot of skiing 105 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.160 in western Michigan, and there's some stray. 106 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.439 Lake states don't have They have snow, but. 107 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.240 Not a lot of elevation, no exactly, and so you know, 108 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:37.360 some winners are good, and some winners there's no skiing, 109 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:40.759 but I did pick it up later in my twenties, 110 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.360 and that really sort of then the bug set in 111 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.279 and I felt like I needed to go west, mostly 112 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.920 to ski. And what's real full circle moment is that 113 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:53.480 the thing that inspired me to move out west to 114 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:58.519 pursue skiing and the mountains was the volt At catalog 115 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:01.639 and all the photos were from a gentleman named John Laptad. 116 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.480 Who is It turns out he lives in Hood River. 117 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.079 And so here's on. After I moved to Hood River, 118 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.040 I didn't know that that he lived here, and someone 119 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:12.399 introduced me to him, and I, you know, I kind 120 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.759 of probably lost my ship. I'm like, you're the guy 121 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.480 who inspired me to move out west in the first place. 122 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:22.399 And so yeah, so his his photos were in Parker's 123 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:26.800 book Free Heel Skiing and photos featured in the Voleet 124 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:30.480 catalogs and those two things. So I learned, Yeah, I 125 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.040 learned how to ski teley skiing. So I did it 126 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.480 the hardest possible way, so in West Michigan, on ice 127 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:40.600 and with no formal instruction. So both of my hips, 128 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.240 right and left hips were bruised into all sorts of colors. 129 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:47.399 The first two seasons I kept falling down and uh 130 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:50.199 but I you know, I had the bug and uh yeah, 131 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:53.639 So that's that's what really spurred the you know, the 132 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:57.879 the escape from West Michigan. I was a classic Midwestern 133 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.279 kid in that both my parents worked in factory. So 134 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:05.160 the future was, you know, either my whole my mom's 135 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.800 side of the family, all of them to a one 136 00:07:07.879 --> 00:07:13.319 have since retired from GM and my mom retired from 137 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.240 Steelcase making office furniture. My dad worked at Steelcase at 138 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.480 the office furniture factory. I did summer what they called 139 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:21.480 summer help, which is where all the kids would go 140 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.079 in during the summer when school was out, and once 141 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:27.480 we were sixteen, I think sixteen, Yeah, I think sixteen, 142 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:29.439 they would let us in the factory and they would 143 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.879 you know, be extra help while people were doing their 144 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.319 summer vacations. And so that was kind of that's that 145 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.879 was the trajectory. That's what you do. And you know, 146 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.360 once I, once I started skiing and playing around with that, 147 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:43.480 I realized that that seemed like a lot more fun 148 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.720 thing to pursue than pursuing a future in the factory. 149 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.160 So that's where I ended up moving moving west. And 150 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:54.759 I'll just close up this chapter quick is I was 151 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:57.920 fortunate at the time I decided to make the move west. 152 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:02.800 My mom had remarried Alemen and his sister lived in Bozeman, 153 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.199 and she had she had gone from West Michigan where 154 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:09.160 we all grew up, and gone to Montana State, and 155 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.480 she ended up staying married a guy who was a 156 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:14.920 fourth generation Montana UH and had a place to live. 157 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:16.759 And so when I was looking at options of where 158 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.839 to escape to, you know, things like UC Boulder, UH, 159 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:23.639 you know, Utah State and Logan, UH, University of Salt 160 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:26.160 Later or of Utah and Salt Lake, all those things, 161 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:29.680 and Bozeman and of all of those, the connection of 162 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.600 having my my stepdad's sister and in Bozeman with a 163 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.480 place to stay where she said, yeah, you can crash 164 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.720 with us until you get established. That made it pretty easy. 165 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.720 So awesome. Yeah, It's it's funny when you look back 166 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:46.799 how little things make huge difference. I mean, just having 167 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.039 just having when you're a kid, just having some familiar people. 168 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:53.960 Yeah, it was great. And I you know, I frankly 169 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:57.960 had never met my stepdad's sister at that point, so 170 00:08:58.039 --> 00:08:59.559 I just threw all my ship in the back of 171 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.759 a GMC Sonoma. You know, the poor man's U S 172 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.279 ten pick up. Of course, we're real drive not appropriate 173 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.840 for the mountains in Montana, and drove across the country 174 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.279 with all my stuff and there's there. You know, estically, 175 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.080 I was there to go to college, just so you know, 176 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:17.919 I mean, I did have an excuse to sell to 177 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:19.840 my folks that that I was going to get a 178 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:21.240 college degree when I went there. 179 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.879 What did you go to college for? Uh? 180 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.960 You know, it turns out I went to college for skiing, kayaking, 181 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:31.679 rock climbing, and then fishing and and somehow incidentally I 182 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.440 ended up with a bachelors of science and geography. 183 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:37.840 So who do you remember much of the geography? 184 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:39.960 Yeah, I mean that stuff actually, I mean that's what 185 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:45.080 I ended up with. That in that that that pursuit 186 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.360 just because it was interested me. Settle in patterns and 187 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.080 why people ended up in places and house cities and towns, 188 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.600 especially in the West, grew up around the railroads. That 189 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:56.399 sort of stuff is you know, it was always kind 190 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.399 of fascinating to me. So it was an easy fit. Yeah, 191 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:04.000 it didn't involve any math. Let's just say that the maths, 192 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.679 the maths and my brain are not good friends. 193 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.600 Yeah, I'm kind of there too. I was actually I 194 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:13.399 was actually really good at math up until calculus, and 195 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.919 then I was just off a cliff once I couldn't 196 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:23.279 just do it in my head anymore. Yeah. So, oh wait, 197 00:10:23.399 --> 00:10:27.399 just to backtrack a little bit, there is some argument 198 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:29.879 that that two wheel drive truck is not a good 199 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:33.519 Michigan vehicle either because of your snowloaded But as a 200 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:37.559 guy who's first several trucks work too wheel drive, they 201 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:39.200 are donut machines. 202 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.120 They are. And also I would argue, if if you 203 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:45.039 really pressed me, I would argue that if you could 204 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.759 learn how to drive one of those things around in 205 00:10:47.799 --> 00:10:49.919 the snow with a little bit of weight in the back, Yeah, 206 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.360 put weight in the back, you can. You can drive 207 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.399 just about anything in the snow. And the reason being 208 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.000 is you have to learn the technique of being very 209 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:03.320 judicious with gas, yes it and using it so feeling 210 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.600 for the traction right not let those you'll never learn 211 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.080 that with, you know, an all wheel drive car. And 212 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.200 so I suppose it was. It was good. 213 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.720 Yeah, I actually think all my goof and run I 214 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.120 learned to drive in a sixty three MG and uh, 215 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.519 you could break the back of that loose, so easy 216 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:27.240 on the snow, and so drifting these big long country 217 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:30.279 road corners. I didn't know it was called drifting that. 218 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.960 And I don't think it's the same because guys who drift, 219 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:34.519 I think are doing it either an all wheel drive 220 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.279 or front wheel drive car, and I'm doing it there 221 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:41.799 in the donut machine. MG. But it does really teach 222 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:44.639 you how to drive in snow, I think, so. 223 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.039 I mean, I feel like I was better equipped to 224 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.360 drive in snow learning to drive in a real rear 225 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:55.480 wheel drive vehicle in both in Michigan and and Montana. 226 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.720 And so yeah, well, especially when you're a kid, you 227 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.919 also are more meet heady and do stupid things that 228 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:07.440 you learned from Yes. So, speaking of which, uh, I 229 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.759 was happily surprised to find out about white Water. You 230 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:13.519 guys started when you were at college. 231 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.080 I did. Yeah. So I back to West Michigan right 232 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:23.240 after high school. I went to work for an outdoor backpacking, general, 233 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:26.799 outdoor and ski shop that at that time even had 234 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.000 been in business for thirty or forty years. It was 235 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.600 started the gentleman who started it was still working in 236 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:34.519 the shop. He started after World War Two and he 237 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:38.279 came back from from Europe, and he was one of 238 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.879 the first folks to you know, like all of the 239 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:43.879 rope toes and things across the West and the Midwest, 240 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.840 any of the snow country. He was one of those 241 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:48.240 people to you know, grab a car engine and rig 242 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.360 up a toe rope at one of the hills in 243 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.159 West Michigan and so, and he became a ski retailer, 244 00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:55.600 you know, to outfit all the people that were now 245 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.399 skiing and having fun with that that sport. So he 246 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:02.120 started a show up his son. He and his son 247 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:04.120 were running it when I got out of high school, 248 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:08.159 and I hired on with them to to sell mostly 249 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:12.120 backpacking gear. But I once I got into the ski pursuit, 250 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:15.240 I was selling skis for them too. They this is 251 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:18.240 this will get us to Whitewater and Montana. I swear 252 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.960 they were well known in the outdoor industry because they 253 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.240 had been in business for so long made nationwide. People 254 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:28.159 knew of this this shop. And so when I decided 255 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.240 to leave their employ and move to Bozeman, I asked for, 256 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:37.679 you know, a recommendation to a shop in in Bozeman 257 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:39.600 that I had heard of that I also knew was 258 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:44.000 quite you know, wealth well thought well regarded, and through 259 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:46.240 that connection I got a job at a shop in 260 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:50.360 Bozeman called Northern Lights Trading Company. They're kind of sort 261 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:52.360 of still around. In fact, my old boss from there 262 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:53.960 was just in Herd River a couple of days ago. 263 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.000 One of two of his kids, who I remember walking 264 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:02.200 around that shop in Bozeman is hodlers and infants are 265 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.759 now living in White Salmon, and so I see them 266 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:08.279 all the day. Yeah. But so I parlayed that work 267 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.360 at Bill and Paul's sporthouse in Grand Reference, Michigan into 268 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:16.159 working for Northern Lights Trading and Northern Lights was a 269 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:21.120 climbing shop, a backcountry ski shop, a Nordic ski shop, 270 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.360 and then most importantly, the passion of Mike Garcia, who 271 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.360 was the owner and founder of that was whitewater. That 272 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:32.519 was his baby, and so that shop had a Whitewater focus, 273 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:34.600 and I didn't you know, that wasn't my thing. I 274 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:36.639 hired on to sell backpacks and the same kind of 275 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:41.000 stuff I was selling in West Michigan, and very quickly 276 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:44.399 it became obvious that that was a cool thing that 277 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.559 you could do, and so I did the standard thing. 278 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.320 I went and took one of the role classes and 279 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:52.039 got into a boat, and then that really wrote the 280 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:54.039 rest of the rest of the story that landed me 281 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.600 in Hood River, which was spending you know, the better 282 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:01.879 part of from nineteen ninety six through you know, two 283 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.240 thousand and six or seven doing nothing but whitewater kayaking, 284 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.960 very little skiing, very little anything else. That's what we did. 285 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.080 The calendar the year was was organized around skiing and 286 00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:14.679 the dead of the winter, and then the minute the 287 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:18.360 spring runoff started, it was paddling locally in Bozeman. It 288 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:21.759 was you know, Easter was always a trip hopefully to 289 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:25.519 the Locksaw in Idaho. Fourth of July was always a 290 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.840 you know, a week of debauchery and kayaking on the 291 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:31.559 payats outside of Boise. You know, the fall was a 292 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.919 couple of things in the Bear Tooth Mountains east and 293 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:38.720 south of Bozeman. You know, so just the year kind 294 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.080 of it was the whitewater calendar really, you know, at 295 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:45.919 those rivers came into into into action, we would be 296 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.679 there and so that really that was what got me 297 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:53.200 in the the the rivers. 298 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:59.360 Yeah, it's it's very much a seasonal chase. There was 299 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.360 I just than an eastern version of it when I 300 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:06.360 was doing it, you know, you'd start actually start brutally 301 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:09.399 cold because some of the stuff in the a Aroun 302 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:14.519 jacks was amazing then. And then as summer came and 303 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:16.720 all the annual stuff was running off, we'd go up 304 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:18.919 and go to the Autawa a few times because the 305 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.720 Autawa was always running even when it's low. It's huge, 306 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:28.919 and there's there's such a big overlap too amongst even more. 307 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:32.159 I think, uh, Telemark skiers and kayakers, and there are 308 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:35.519 downshill skiers and kayakers, although a lot of the Telemark 309 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.600 skiers as they as they age, become downhill skiers. 310 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:45.679 That's that's where I'm at now. Yeah, I jettisoned the 311 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.120 freehill gear a long time ago, and and now since 312 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.480 I don't ski all that much anymore, it's much easier 313 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:54.039 to just walk in and go skiing. 314 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:59.120 Yeah, my my friends, the Whites, my my family in Colorado, 315 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.919 one of my two families in Colorado, finally went to 316 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.240 lock in Boots and they're just stunned at how much 317 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:08.440 it is. 318 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.160 It's good. I will say that it took me a 319 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.119 little bit. It took me a good bit of one 320 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.240 season to really get the hang of it, because it 321 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:19.279 was quite a bit different and I was very confident 322 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.640 that at the point when I made that switch, I had, 323 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.480 you know, my telemark skied for ten plus years, and 324 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.200 I was you know, I was you know, I was 325 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.720 good at it. But making that switch, which I guess 326 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.079 I presumed would be a little bit easier, it did 327 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.240 become easier fairly quickly. But the initial part was there 328 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.799 was some relearning to be sure. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 329 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:40.599 Now it's great. 330 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.519 When I when I tried Teley skiing, it was right 331 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:46.920 before I just had to face up to quit skiing, 332 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.400 and I took a class and they were like, how'd 333 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.000 you get down here? And I'm like, well, I downhill. 334 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:57.119 I just didn't use my heel if I got to 335 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:59.640 a spooky stretch, I just downhill skied. 336 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:02.079 Yeah. 337 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:08.920 But so back to boating, Yeah, what was your first boat? 338 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.200 So I I was thinking about this in the the 339 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.480 run up to our conversation and trying to get my 340 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.480 back straight. And remember I was I started selling boats 341 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:23.000 at Northern Lights, probably right at the end of at 342 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.200 the very tail end of the Pirouette being the boat 343 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.319 of choice. There were still a few of those in 344 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:30.640 the shop, but they were mostly down in the basement 345 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.079 and dust covered and and you know, and and that 346 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:36.440 was kind of that was the end of that era, 347 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.960 and so we moved into all the things, all the 348 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:43.960 short boat era. So I I really my my heyday 349 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.400 of paddling was at the advent of boat companies like 350 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.400 Wavesport Chance Company out of Colorado, things like the X, 351 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.799 things like the Z, things like the you know, the stubby. 352 00:18:56.359 --> 00:18:59.920 You know, that was that was my era. So so 353 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.880 it's definitely the short boat thing. And obviously that is 354 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.400 you know, it's changed dramatically. You know, it changes dramatically 355 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:10.960 all the time and has quite a bit in the 356 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.720 last few years. But that was where I kind of 357 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:17.200 jumped in. And so to some degree it was an 358 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.839 easier sport to learn, and the rivers that you were 359 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.000 able to run, the difficulty of the rivers you were 360 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.680 able to run fairly quickly in your I guess call 361 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.680 it career of whitewater were made much more accessible by 362 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.279 the technology. The boats were better. 363 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.599 I was amazed when I started. They were like you 364 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:43.200 get a dancer. I got a hydro dragonfly, and there 365 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:47.000 were a couple others, But first off, they were made 366 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:49.759 for people smaller than me for the most part, like 367 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:51.759 a dancer I think was made for somebody one hundred 368 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:57.200 and forty five to sixty five pounds. And the other 369 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.519 problem is they're long and skinny. They're meant stuck in 370 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.839 sticking holes. They didn't realize that yet, But if you 371 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:06.200 owned a hydraulic sideways you could be there a while 372 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:09.920 where the shorter that when the boats got shorter and 373 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.640 more maneuverable, you could actually you could plain a lot 374 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.880 of hydraulics that you were getting spanked in bigger boats. 375 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.640 Well, I will agree with all of that. I will 376 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:21.920 just make a note for any of the listeners out 377 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:25.119 there that those boats did pioneer some of the hardest 378 00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:25.799 white water in. 379 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:28.799 The Rocky, oh, the Rockies, all over the world. 380 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:31.359 All over the world. I mean, I really can't say 381 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.440 enough about. The one that comes to mind is the 382 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.240 pioneering run that Rob Lesser and you launched and somebody 383 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.640 else did on the on the box on the Clark 384 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:43.200 Fork of the Yellowstone. I mean, that was a mission. 385 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.559 They were in there for a week, and they were 386 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.920 in boats they had no business being in there. And 387 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:50.160 and certainly it's it's now run you know, much more regularly, 388 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.200 but it certainly made it more fun I think it 389 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.000 opened up the small boats definitely opened up the ability 390 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.000 to just to use the river more creatively. You know, 391 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.079 a small boat small and so if you if you 392 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.799 look at it as I mean, I suppose I could 393 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.119 analogize this to uh, painting, since that's your your gig 394 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:13.720 is you know, it's the ability to use a tiny 395 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.839 brush for details versus a big brush for big strokes. 396 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:21.200 And so the smaller boats really allowed folks to I think, 397 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.759 to get down some of those rivers, uh, not as 398 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:29.279 a survival endeavor, but as a creative endeavor where they're 399 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:31.799 able to sort of paint on that canvas, the river 400 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.680 being the canvas, and those little boats allow those you know, 401 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.720 tiny eddies to be you know caught, and those those 402 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.000 maneuvers become a lot more interesting instead of just floating 403 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:43.960 as if you're a piece of driftwood and making it 404 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.799 through a rapid Yeah. 405 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.400 Yeah, it's there. It gives you more of a sports 406 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:56.000 car aspect to it. Driving their bus. I was still 407 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.559 skiing when I got started, and I used to tell 408 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:01.319 people it's what's like your skiing, but the mountain moves, 409 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.759 the features are still there, but the but everything's flowing 410 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:13.519 over it and I love that the I'm not sure 411 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:15.359 it's even it's an analogy. I'm looking for a word, 412 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.880 but likening it to a creative endeavor because when you're 413 00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.559 when you're learning, and you're with your crew and your 414 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.079 standard at a drop and you're trying to decide if 415 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.039 you have the nerve and the scale to do it, 416 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:32.160 and you're picking your line through it that you've got 417 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:36.319 to put in your head to keep on, you realize 418 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.960 everybody's picking their own line, and there's conversation back and 419 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.480 forth and choosing and stuff. But uh, there's any number 420 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.200 of ways to get down a complicated rapid and the 421 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:50.720 higher your skill set and the more appropriate your gear 422 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:54.079 is for it, the more creative you can be in 423 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:54.319 in that. 424 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:00.480 I would since you know, since I suppose the the 425 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.680 broad strokes of our conversation are probably around where we 426 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.960 interacted with fishing, I think that it's sort of similar 427 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.839 to the pursuit of certainly you know, trout fishing, or 428 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.359 or steel hit and salmon fishing. I mean, you know, 429 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.480 you and I could stand at one of those spots 430 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.160 on the shoots, and while Barrett could certainly tell us 431 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.440 that the fish is right behind that rock, you and 432 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.319 I might approach how we fish to that fish, you know, differently, 433 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.240 just like as you were suggesting a couple different people 434 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.400 looking at a drop and how they're going to navigate 435 00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:32.960 a kayak through it would do it as well. 436 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:41.759 Yeah, yeah, well it's it's funny. I didn't. I grew 437 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.559 up wanting to do trips on my own. I didn't. 438 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:48.720 I didn't have any idea. Well, I don't think it 439 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.680 was as big, but there were still guides and outfitters 440 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.519 and everything when I was a kid, but it wasn't 441 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.119 something my family did at all, And so I came 442 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:58.920 at it from wanting to develop skill sets so I 443 00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:02.480 could go on trips myself. So I needed to learn 444 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.000 how to fish and out of camp and out a 445 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.599 canoe on my own. And it was in the era 446 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.680 of there weren't really classes, so you got a book 447 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:18.279 and you started learning. Built Mason was it was the 448 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.920 canoe guru from eastern Canada, and his books and his 449 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:27.160 early videos were amazingly helpful. And then on trips I'd 450 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.839 run into these kids at canoe camp that you'd go 451 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.880 up for a week or actually it was usually uh 452 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.880 three weeks or four weeks and you'd start off learn 453 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.759 how to paddle, then you do learn how to cook, 454 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.640 and then you do a weekend trip, and then a 455 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.160 four day trip, and then a five day trip, and 456 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.039 at the end of the end of the thing, you'd 457 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.240 do like a ten day trip or something. We'd run 458 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:53.039 into these groups in Canada, and I was thinking, why 459 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:55.559 didn't I go to those? And it just wasn't something 460 00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:00.880 my family did. So what led to fishing? Just being 461 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:01.400 on the river? 462 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.519 Yeah, I mean I was thinking about again, it's sort 463 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.400 of in the run up to this conversation, I was 464 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.119 sort of trying to get in my head the timeline 465 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:14.359 and where I interacted initially with with fly fishing. And 466 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.599 what I realized is is that, you know, I moved 467 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.279 to Bozeman to pursue college and I'll put that in 468 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.640 scare quotes or air quotes to college in nineteen ninety 469 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:29.319 late nineteen ninety four, early ninety five, and A River 470 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:31.640 runs through It had just been released in nineteen four, 471 00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:35.240 and so you know, certainly the cultural zeitgeist if you 472 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:38.240 were in the West, was you know that movie really 473 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.119 you know making it well? And incidentally there's some great 474 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.640 connections which I'll I'll allude to in a little bit 475 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.119 about that movie and people that I've met subsequently in 476 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.160 Bozeman who worked on the film. But nevertheless, I, you know, 477 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:54.720 I had seen the film and that it just really 478 00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:59.319 interacted with my you know, my looking at the pictures 479 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:03.079 of John lappt you know, skiing photos in the Valet 480 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:07.160 catalog and the you know, Paul Parker's Freehield skiing book 481 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:09.200 and the skiing and I'm like, this is just why 482 00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:11.559 I'm going to the West. And so but I did 483 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.400 show up in Bozeman primarily with the idea of skiing 484 00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:16.400 in mind. And so the first summer that I was there, 485 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.079 I don't know, I really don't recall when I bought 486 00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:22.759 gear first, but I'm not sure it was the first 487 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:24.160 summer I was there. I think the first summer I 488 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:27.960 was there, I spent primarily hooking up with rock climbing 489 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:32.000 folks and doing some of the local climbing classics, and 490 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.319 then also trying to pursue summer skiing. So I remember 491 00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:37.920 specifically the first summer I was there doing a few 492 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.839 trips to walk in you know, on the dirt to 493 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:46.039 get to the snow and summer ski. But soon there 494 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.720 after either that summer or the subsequent year that I 495 00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:54.000 was there. I went to a sports shop in Bozeman 496 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.240 called Bob Warden Sons. And they were a general sports shop. 497 00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:59.720 So where I was working at Northern Lights was more 498 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.200 specialized with climbing gear, with paddle sports gear, with you know, 499 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:07.599 higher end backpacking gear. Bob Warden's Sons was you know, 500 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.039 pick your local sports retailer anywhere across the country, that's 501 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:12.880 what they were. They had everything. I mean, you could 502 00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.880 buy hockey tape there, a hockey stick. You could buy 503 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.680 football cleats and you know, a cup and a jockstrap, 504 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:21.920 you know, and you could buy fly fishing gear. And 505 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:23.559 so I went in there with what little money I 506 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.200 had as a broke college student, and I bought a 507 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.559 fluger metalist reel, and a Saint Croix rod of some 508 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:35.039 variety or other, a fishing vest and a parent neoprene 509 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.240 waiters and some boots, and off I went. And that 510 00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.440 was that's where it started. And I really, I really 511 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:46.200 dove into it. I enjoyed it. And certainly the area 512 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:49.480 around boseman Is is just a trout fisherman's paradise. I 513 00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:53.839 mean every river has, you know, tributaries all up and 514 00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:55.640 down the thing, and every one of those tributaries has 515 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:58.240 another tributary. And so if you just want to fish 516 00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:00.799 in beautiful places for tiny fish, you can do that. 517 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:02.640 You can fish on the gallet, and you can fish 518 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.960 on the Mattis. I mean all of it, you know. 519 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:07.119 So it was all right there, you know, just right 520 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.599 right at the fingertips of you know, a college student. 521 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:14.519 And I was thinking about this when we started talking 522 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.200 about having this conversation. I was fishing on the hood 523 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:18.880 maybe a week and a half ago, and I was 524 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.319 wearing a pair of fingerless fox river gloves. I realized, 525 00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.599 those are the ones that I bought at Bob Wardensn's 526 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.960 in either nineteen ninety five or ninety six. They're in 527 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.200 terrible shape and they smell bad, but they're always in 528 00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.359 my jacket. They were in my jacket in my boat. 529 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.000 Your hands, yeah, they still get my hands form. So 530 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.319 that was where I got into it. And so, you know, 531 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.599 I because Montana is big. I think the only people 532 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.559 that really can understand this are people who lived either 533 00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:45.680 grew up in Montana or have lived there for an 534 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.880 amount of time. Is the state's fucking huge and it's 535 00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:52.640 very enormous. It's enormous, and there's so much to do 536 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.640 there that like I can say that I spent you know, 537 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.519 five and a half years there skiing, skiing, kayaking and fishing, 538 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:03.759 and I still never fished the Blackfoot. I still never fished, 539 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.559 you know, some of the classics around Missoula. I never fished, 540 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.920 you know, the Ruby, I mean, but I fished a 541 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:12.200 whole lot of other shit, you know, and so it's 542 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:16.839 hard you I just remember, if you stand in Linley Park, 543 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:19.319 which is is that the name of it, there's a 544 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:22.559 park on the east side of Bozeman where there's some 545 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.720 hiking trails just in town. You know, easy place to 546 00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:26.319 go for a run. You can look out and you 547 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:28.759 see seven different mountain ranges. Every one of those mountain 548 00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:33.640 ranges has skiing possibilities, has kayaking possibilities, has fishing opportunities. 549 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.960 And so, you know, I fished a lot of stuff. 550 00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:37.960 I didn't fish some of the classics. I fished a 551 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.640 lot of you know, neat places, but I fished a 552 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.640 lot that was you know, that was my pursuit when 553 00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:46.759 the kayaking wasn't happening. And then sometimes just you know, 554 00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:48.279 in the midst of it, because it was something easy. 555 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.160 You know, you could run out. I often did. I 556 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.920 would run. I'd well run out. I would skip class 557 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.920 and I would drive out to one of my favorite 558 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:57.759 places to fish on the Gallot and was the lower 559 00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:01.359 part of the river down by a little town called Manhattan, 560 00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:06.640 which is just east excuse me, just west of Bozeman. 561 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.279 Kind of the lower part of the Gallaton. There were 562 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.200 a lot of white fish and kind of braided channels, 563 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.359 but there were also really big rainbows tucked under the 564 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:15.920 undercut banks and not a lot of fishing pressure because 565 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.640 everyone wanted to fish. The classic scene at the end 566 00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:20.599 of a river runs through it is Brad Pitt standing 567 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:24.839 in that silhouetted standing on that rock. It's casting. That 568 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.880 is right below Squaw Peak, down stream from Big Sky, 569 00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.759 from the ski resort, and that's the canyon section of 570 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:33.640 the Gallaton, which is where we would kayak. And also 571 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:36.559 it's great fishing, but it's you know, it's where everyone fishes. 572 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.480 So I always found myself trying to fish. I feel 573 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.680 like this is something you where you and I a 574 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.000 line a bit. You were always looking to do solo trips, 575 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.119 you know, paddling, and I guess I was always looking 576 00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:51.119 to fish without other people around, so I would go 577 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.160 you know, I would go out to less you know, 578 00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.599 crowded areas on the Gallaton that were not the A 579 00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.759 plus fishing. But I always had good fishing and I 580 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:00.640 never people. 581 00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:04.039 So that's that's always my goal. I couldn't care less 582 00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:07.720 if it's a well known river, stream or creek, uh 583 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:14.200 to not be that. The thing I love about fishing, paddling, 584 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:19.880 being outside is that chance to connect to the world, 585 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:24.599 the earth in a in a more primitive seems like 586 00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.640 a ridiculous word to use. I need more, but in 587 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:34.559 a more simple way then as soon and I my 588 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.000 last ten years, i've fished with people more than I 589 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.440 did in the first fifty years and I and I 590 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.440 love it. But I still love being alone or just 591 00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.519 with my dogs. One of the things I think dogs 592 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:54.119 make you notice more so I think they're they're interesting addition, 593 00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:57.240 but I love being on water alone. 594 00:31:57.559 --> 00:31:59.839 I think that what I would argue, if if you 595 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.880 press me, is is that whenever you fish, we'll just 596 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:05.920 use fishing as the example, since that's the thing we're 597 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:09.359 talking about. Whenever you fish with a pal, a buddy, 598 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:15.680 two pals, it doesn't matter. It inevitably the discussion goes 599 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:18.839 to gear, not the surroundings. The surroundings do come up, 600 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.000 the beauty of the place you're in and all that, 601 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.799 but it just inevitably ends up at gear talk. When 602 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.960 you're by yourself, the gear talk, you got nobody to 603 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:28.240 talk to about the gear, so you tend I think 604 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:31.119 this is this is an argument. I'm just getting this 605 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.519 argument for him right now. I'm not sure about it, 606 00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:37.720 but that you when you fish solo, you tend to 607 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:42.440 take in the surroundings, maybe more than you would when 608 00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:43.079 you're with people. 609 00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:47.400 Yeah, yeah, it's it's funny. I also find I fish 610 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:54.119 much more intently, which doesn't mean I'm any more focused 611 00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:57.839 on my fishing than I because I'm always I'm kind 612 00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:00.920 of notorious, at least with myself, for looking at everything 613 00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:05.119 other than my fly or my line or anything else. 614 00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:09.920 But I feel like I'm more focused on it. I 615 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.279 was actually really shocked one time fishing with a friend 616 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.920 who guides too, and he wasn't guiding me. We were 617 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.279 just fishing, but he went into guide mode and next 618 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:20.799 thing you know, I was waiting to be told what 619 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.440 to do. And I like to learn, but I hate 620 00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:26.599 being told what to do. 621 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.720 Yeah, yeah, So. 622 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.279 Once you first pick up spade run. 623 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:38.680 So I had an interesting sort of interaction with fishing 624 00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:41.440 and Oregon. So I moved to Oregon to pursue throwing 625 00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:45.000 myself off every waterfall that was available in paddle kayak 626 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:48.359 in the winter here. And I really didn't understand the 627 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:50.680 fishing in Oregon, and I was really kind of put 628 00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.480 off by it because the only thing that I could 629 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:54.799 I could really figure out was that there was one 630 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:58.400 trout stream and it was the Shoots. And so to 631 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:01.880 my mind, that was really hard to adjust to having 632 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:05.240 just come from Bozeman. Where As I said before, every 633 00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.640 river has a tributary, which has a tributary, which has 634 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.320 a tributary, and they're all full of trout and then 635 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.719 you can just go wherever and fish. And all of 636 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:13.519 the rivers in the Northwest, which is one of the 637 00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.440 reasons they're so uniquely interesting for kayaking is they're all 638 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.679 in sized in these you know, deep basalt canyons, which 639 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:23.840 is great for whitewater because it means there's a bunch 640 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:26.360 of waterfalls and cool canyons to paddle through. But what 641 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.760 it means is there's none of those tributaries and free 642 00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.280 stone streams and the things that you're so used to 643 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:35.079 in the Inner Mountain West, and so I kind of 644 00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:36.960 kind of hung up the fishing gear because I'm like, 645 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.360 this is sort of dumb. I don't want to drive 646 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:39.800 all the way out to the shoots and fight a 647 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:42.480 bunch of people and fish to picky fish. You know 648 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.800 that everyone's fished over. So I kind of stopped fishing, 649 00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.599 and then a couple friends of mine who were also 650 00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:54.880 trout fishermen, started to kind of pick away at you know, 651 00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:58.719 salmon and steehead fishing and two handed rods. At that point, 652 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:01.559 this would have been two thousand and four to two 653 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.119 thousand and six, somewhere in that range, that that gear 654 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.639 was starting to become much more ubiquitous and much easier 655 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:11.400 and more accessible. And so a couple of friends who 656 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.239 I knew were fisherman also who had fished with a 657 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.800 little bit, started to get into that and kind of 658 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.480 drug me into it. I believe I was again trying 659 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.519 to get my timeline straight. I believe that sometime around 660 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:27.679 that my good friend Chad Foster lives here in town, 661 00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:33.159 had purchased a trip at the Native Fish Society annual 662 00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:38.639 auction to do a day with Barrett and Hickman on 663 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.320 the Clackamus. And no, no, I'm sorry, it wasn't Barrett. 664 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:46.000 It was Tom Larimer and Jeff on the Clackamas, and 665 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:48.199 Chad invited me along. And I hadn't had a two 666 00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.719 handed rod in my hand ever, so I spent that 667 00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:54.280 day learning how to two hand cast. Hickman taught me 668 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.800 how that day or Tom, I think Tom did. I 669 00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:59.679 think Jeff was fishing with Chad and so that was 670 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.960 my first entree into it. And then I kind of 671 00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.239 just I kind of just kept going, you know, from 672 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.159 that that point on. 673 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:10.400 So, uh, Tom probably put a Loomis in your hand 674 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:11.920 at that time, Okay, you. 675 00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:14.679 Know, maybe probably, I don't remember, you know, it was 676 00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.719 that so long ago, and you know, it was one 677 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:19.159 of those those days. I don't remember that well because 678 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:20.960 it was you know, I had leaky waiters and was 679 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.599 pouring down rain, and it was the winter on the Clacamus, 680 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:26.599 and it was a pretty miserable day. And I was 681 00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:29.840 also trying to learn something new and trying to you know, 682 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.960 get proficient at it really fast, which I wasn't very 683 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:33.400 good at. 684 00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:38.519 So it is it is funny. I have a nephew. 685 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:41.920 I have two nephews that are do a lot of 686 00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:45.639 outdoor stuff and when families together, they will be tell 687 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:51.719 a story and it my family's appalled at how miserable 688 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:56.639 it is sometimes, and uh, it makes me so wishing 689 00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.639 I could be young again, because that there's something about 690 00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.840 the miss is part of it. The I mean, when 691 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:07.280 you're so cold, I hate being cold. And when you're 692 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:11.400 so cold you're barely able to function and you're still 693 00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:16.679 having fun. It's kind of amazing to me. Although this 694 00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:22.480 last say, six weeks being reintroduced to northeastern cold has 695 00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:25.960 not been really fun. I spent the last three days 696 00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:28.320 chipping away at the driveway for it to find me, 697 00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.599 trying to get ready for today because they's fifty two 698 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:35.280 or fifty four and raining, so my driveways finally clean again. 699 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:41.519 I was completely not prepared for thoughts about snowblowers, maybe 700 00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:45.639 getting somebody with a plow, all that crap. No thank you, 701 00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:51.480 I was gonna say, Nate just left for some reason, 702 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.559 so we're going to take a We're going to take 703 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:58.239 a quick break. Patrick Lukaba of jay Moon Bamboo Rods 704 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.199 is located down in southern Oregon along the Rogue River 705 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:04.079 in Grant's Pass. That's where he spent the last several 706 00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.199 years developing tapers for three bamboos bay rods. He builds 707 00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:09.679 a light ten foot eight four weight trouts Bay, a 708 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.559 sweet eleven foot six six weight summer steel and rod, 709 00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.039 and the one I like to call Little Thunder is 710 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:17.880 eleven foot eight weight Coastal Special. There all hollow built 711 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:19.760 and have what I love in a spey rod, a 712 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.880 stiff tip and junk in the trunk. He also builds 713 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.559 a powerful eight foot six weight single hand rod for 714 00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:26.880 those of you might want to take a two and 715 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.000 a break and throw big drives or streamers or smallmouth bugs. 716 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:33.840 Patty can be found at jaymoonworks dot com. That's works 717 00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:45.079 with an ex jaymoonworks dot com. 718 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:46.880 A bird just flew into the window next to me 719 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.159 here in my dining room, and I just got up 720 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:50.719 to take a peek see if the thing was dead 721 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:51.719 or been flown away. 722 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.400 Well, one of the things I've been really surprised with 723 00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:59.760 in the woods out behind me. It's eastern hardwoods and 724 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.559 full of undergrowth. I finally got so lime disease freaked out. 725 00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:07.239 I quit walking back there until we got snow then 726 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.679 the dogs. That I've been back there, I'm seeing very 727 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:16.000 few small birds, which I don't remember. When I lived 728 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.760 up in western New York, it was always thick with 729 00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.159 small birds in the wintertime, eating every little seed off 730 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:27.280 of everything. And an art critic I follow made a 731 00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:29.719 remark that he was hearing very few birds on his 732 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:34.199 walks anymore, and it's got me a little freaked out 733 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:38.280 about it. But where I lived in Oregon City, you'd 734 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:40.719 hear a bird thump off the window, and I'd always 735 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:42.360 go charging outside to see if was laying there because 736 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.800 there's so many cats in the neighborhood. Yeah, and half 737 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.679 a dozen times I found little, tiny, unconscious birds that 738 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.400 you'd pick up and just hold for ten minutes, and 739 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:51.679 all of a sudden they'd come to it and fly away. 740 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:55.559 Yeah. 741 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:58.199 So, how long ago din't you pick up space run? 742 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.119 How long was I think we were? To the best 743 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.679 of my limited brain power these days, I believe it 744 00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.639 was probably in the two thousand, probably two thousand and six, 745 00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.280 two thousand and seven, two thousand and six to two 746 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:11.840 thousand and eight. 747 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:14.239 Issus kind of like you better like twenty years now. 748 00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:16.920 Yeah, yeah, Yeah, So. 749 00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:20.559 You're sticking most of the Oregon. Are you traveling? 750 00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.119 Uh? I mean, I would love to travel more, but 751 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:26.079 I end up, you know, fishing ends up being an 752 00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:29.719 active of you know, convenience, And I'm obviously blessed with 753 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:31.480 the things that are convenient to me in Hood River, 754 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:34.320 which are the shoots for summer steelhead, the click tat, 755 00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:36.760 you know, we've got the Hood the Hood River in 756 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:40.960 town has a small but really fun winter steelhead run, 757 00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.000 and obviously, yeah, you know the metro area, Portland metro 758 00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:48.360 area for things like the Sandy or close by. There's 759 00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.960 a lot of opportunities. I don't travel a ton for fishing. 760 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.880 I wish my schedule would allow a little bit more flexibility. 761 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:56.920 I would like to spend more time out with you know, 762 00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.519 with Colby and Jeff at the coast because there's a 763 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.840 lot out there. But the Oregon coastal rivers are are 764 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:07.280 very fickle, and then they explode into you know, raging 765 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:10.679 high water and then turn into trickles in the space 766 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.320 of a day or two. And so the only good 767 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.880 way to really hit those when they're at their peak 768 00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:17.559 is you sort of have to live out there, or 769 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:20.159 at minimum you live in the Portland metro area, so 770 00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:21.039 it's almost and. 771 00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:25.760 Just to be really flexible. Even in Oregon City because 772 00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:32.239 of the traffic patterns, it would take me almost two 773 00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.039 hours to get out there. So you've got to be 774 00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:37.719 watching stuff and be just be ready to drop what 775 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:40.760 you're doing when things are in shape, which is gonna 776 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.440 be really hard to do from Pennsylvania. 777 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:42.719 It was. 778 00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:48.440 Surprising to me back here in the East. Some of 779 00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:51.960 the best steel heading is through the winter months. And 780 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:56.960 I just don't function in sub freezing. If I'm not moving, 781 00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:01.159 I want to be inside. I hands give out on me. 782 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:04.159 And I was shocked to find out the first winter 783 00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:07.000 back out in Oregon. Winter is my season for fishing. 784 00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:11.159 I just love fishing the coastal stuff when it's like 785 00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:16.280 thirty five or forty and drizzly, rainy, whatever. Especially when 786 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:20.159 it's like thirty six thirty seven and snowing. Oh that's 787 00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:20.880 just heaven to me. 788 00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:24.800 Yeah. Yeah, So I don't get a chance to travel 789 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:27.719 too much for fishing, you know, I wish that I 790 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.400 that I did, But that's fine. I mean, I'm I'm 791 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:32.119 able to pursue it in a way that you know, 792 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:35.199 makes it makes it fun. And the as I said before, 793 00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:37.519 the things that I have in my backyard here in 794 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:40.559 hood River, you know there they are things that other 795 00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:43.920 people travel across the world for. So I count my 796 00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:45.960 blessings that those are things that I get to do, 797 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:48.239 you know, before work on a given day. 798 00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:52.719 Yeah, that's that is the dream is to be able 799 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:56.039 to go fish for two hours. Yeah, so talk about work. 800 00:42:56.039 --> 00:42:57.199 How'd you get into coffee? 801 00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:02.039 I got into coffee by way of being drunk in 802 00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:05.079 two roommates saying it was a good idea, and I said, sure, 803 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.440 I'll help you with that. So yeah, they So at 804 00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.440 the time when we started the shop, my former business 805 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:16.400 partners and I, there weren't a lot of options in 806 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.400 hood River. There there had been a history of a 807 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.400 couple very specific coffee shops that have been around for 808 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.320 a very long time, but at that point they had 809 00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.280 those had all kind of closed up or people had 810 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.719 retired or sold them. And one of our business partners 811 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.639 was traveling back and forth to Portland regularly for work 812 00:43:33.960 --> 00:43:38.440 and had started to encounter things like Stumptown, you know, 813 00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:42.119 some of the higher end roaster retailers, and thought that 814 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:43.960 that would be a good fit for Hood River and 815 00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:47.400 I didn't disagree. I you know, I knew the cafe 816 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.559 culture from being in college Embozeman and knowing that it's 817 00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:54.079 it's a it's cool thing to have available for a community, 818 00:43:54.519 --> 00:43:57.320 and so yeah, so it was it was happenstance in 819 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:01.159 that a friend of ours who ran a kayak school, 820 00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.400 the Colombia Gorge Kayak School, was renting a space in 821 00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.159 the back of the building that our cafe is in now. 822 00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:10.559 And he got wind that the tenant in the front 823 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:13.880 of the building was leaving, and he knew that my 824 00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:16.320 roommates at the time and I had been kicking this 825 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:18.199 idea around, and he said, oh, you should walk down 826 00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:20.199 there and take a look at that spot. And we 827 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:22.199 walked down and looked at the spot, and we're like, okay, sure, 828 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:24.599 let's do it. So we signed the lease in April 829 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:30.119 and then did a massive gut of the place on 830 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.920 our own because we didn't have any money. And we're 831 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.599 opened by August of two thousand and four. So that 832 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:39.320 was it. And so the three of us kind of 833 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:42.519 worked in there. We had employees, and then you know, 834 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.400 obviously all of us still had day jobs, and so 835 00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.239 slowly but surely, just through attrition and other life circumstances, 836 00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.800 I ended up being the last guy standing, and that 837 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:56.599 was in about twenty eleven, twenty ten, and so now 838 00:44:56.599 --> 00:44:59.800 I'm the only owner and I'm still in there slinging 839 00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:01.960 car I still work behind the bar four or five 840 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:04.960 days a week, so throw the apron on and make coffee. 841 00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:06.239 Do you enjoy it? 842 00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:07.400 Oh? Yeah, totally. 843 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:09.360 It seems it seems like being part of a community 844 00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:10.480 like that would be really fun. 845 00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:13.360 Yeah, it's super fun. I mean it does. I mean, well, 846 00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.519 it doesn't offer as much flexibility to travel for fishing 847 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.679 as I'd like. It does allow for the flexibility to 848 00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:21.639 do those sorts of things where I'm able to sneak 849 00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:24.360 out and be on the dishoots for you know, two 850 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.159 hours in the morning and in you know, September, or 851 00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:29.639 run over to the click atat or run down to 852 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:31.679 the hood and fish before work or after work, so 853 00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:34.719 that there's there's that flexibility. I guess at this point, 854 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.000 I'm I don't know if I I don't I don't 855 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:39.559 know if I could work for somebody else, is what 856 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:41.599 I was about to say. But then I also, on 857 00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:43.840 the other hand, think, God, I'd love to work for 858 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:46.039 somebody else and not have the responsibility of all the 859 00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:48.480 employees and all that. Where someone just said, go stable 860 00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:50.840 these pieces of paper together all day, I'd be like, oh, 861 00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.599 it's awesome. I just want to stable the papers together 862 00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:55.840 all day and not think about anything else, you know. 863 00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:59.079 So it's a it's you have to weigh those things 864 00:45:59.079 --> 00:45:59.400 for sure. 865 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.519 It's it's funny. Like the only specific thing I can 866 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.400 remember from going to school for business is the economist 867 00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:10.639 Peter Drucker saying that the day you go to work 868 00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:13.960 for yourself is the day you become unemployable. But I've 869 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.119 had long stretches where I wish I could have a job. 870 00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.320 I just don't have a skill set. I mean, the 871 00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:23.400 economy moved away from my skill set. 872 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:27.559 It as for mind too, at fifty four years old, 873 00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:29.199 right now, I wouldn't know what to I mean, I 874 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:31.360 suppose at best what I would do is I would 875 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.639 try to pitch myself as as a leader, you know. So, 876 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:38.360 I mean that's one thing beyond just the hard skills 877 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:41.440 of being able to be a you know, twenty one 878 00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:45.000 years as a barista. I mean, I'm very skilled at that, 879 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.119 but I'm also have I've definitely developed leadership skills that 880 00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:54.880 you know, are undeniable and just be by necessity, you know. So, 881 00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:58.440 And I know this. I can't get my hands off 882 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:01.159 my own back padding them right now. Sorry, but that's 883 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.360 what I mean by this. But I do have a 884 00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:06.800 history at this point of having you know, employees who 885 00:47:06.800 --> 00:47:10.679 have been with me for multiple years. I've had multiple employees, 886 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:14.039 you know, for six and eight ten years. I have 887 00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:16.800 you know, live in town who worked for me a 888 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:18.519 long time ago, who are still in the shop every 889 00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:21.159 day as customers, And so I do there is some 890 00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:26.360 validation to the efficacy of my leadership skills. And so 891 00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:29.760 to your question, what would I do if I got 892 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.880 a job, I don't really know, but I think that's 893 00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:33.639 what I would have to do is pitch it as 894 00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:36.039 some sort of a you know, a leadership role, because 895 00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:38.400 I think that's where my skill set really is at 896 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:42.760 this point. But certainly sort of technical proficiency, I mean, 897 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.079 you know, that's. 898 00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:50.079 Hey, hey, we're both zuoming, come on, man. Yeah, And 899 00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:54.079 that must be really helpful in your because you do 900 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:55.880 quite a bit of community involvement stuff. 901 00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:59.760 I do. I was thinking about how I got to 902 00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:00.320 that to. 903 00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:02.719 A community, but you're quite involved in your community. Would 904 00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:04.000 be a nicer way of saying that. 905 00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:06.960 Sure I do I do good work. I try to 906 00:48:06.960 --> 00:48:10.800 do good work. I was thinking about that how I 907 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:14.480 got motivated to do those things. And what I realized is, 908 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.639 so this is I'm going to butcher this a little bit. 909 00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.800 But there was a Timbering family in southern Oregon out 910 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:26.199 of Roseberg, last name was Ford, and set up a 911 00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:31.920 program of scholarships throughout Oregon to teach leadership skills to 912 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:35.719 folks in rural Oregon, in rural communities. And the way 913 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:38.119 they would they would pursue this is they would come 914 00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:40.719 into a community, they would pitch it to someone who's 915 00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:42.960 already a leader in the community and say, go, get 916 00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:44.960 you know X number of people that you think would 917 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.440 would benefit from this or would you know if they 918 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:50.039 learned some of these leadership skills, would would become a 919 00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.159 net benefit to your community later down the road. And 920 00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:55.199 so back in about it had to have been two 921 00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:57.800 thousand and six, two thousand and seven, one of my 922 00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:02.320 employees at the time and myself were were asked if 923 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.639 we wanted to participate in that program, the Ford Family 924 00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:10.880 Foundation program, and so we did. My friend John, who's 925 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:14.079 still he's like my little brother. He and I went 926 00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:17.119 through that program, and both of us have subsequently kind 927 00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:19.119 of stuck with it. You know. It was the program 928 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:24.400 was teaching leadership skills, you know, two folks in rural Oregon, 929 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.119 to to get those communities to have those those natural 930 00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.960 leaders within within them to to uh, you know, get 931 00:49:31.960 --> 00:49:36.039 projects done and get project sated. And so that I 932 00:49:36.079 --> 00:49:39.880 suppose probably set the hook a little bit. And then 933 00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:43.960 from there I did two terms or eight years on 934 00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:47.039 the Hood River City Planning Commission. I was the chair 935 00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.199 of the Planning Commission for a couple of those years, 936 00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.719 so I learned how to run meetings. Robert's rules. I 937 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:55.119 still kind of remember and think I can muddy through 938 00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:57.280 if I needed to run a hearing right now. 939 00:49:57.840 --> 00:49:58.079 Uh. 940 00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:00.559 And then obviously, as we talked about it the beginning, 941 00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:03.320 I'm a member of the Mountained Economic Alliance, which is 942 00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:09.239 a small We are a micro lender and our remit 943 00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:14.280 is to lend to businesses or individuals starting businesses in Bosco, 944 00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.559 Clacamus and River counties. And one of the criteria for 945 00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:20.119 our lending is that they've been denied by a bank 946 00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:24.320 for business lending. So we are a lender of last resort, 947 00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:28.679 but of you know, maximum opportunity. And then what's the 948 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.800 other thing. Oh yeah, the bridge. So the bridge that connects. 949 00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:34.000 For those of you listening who have been out to 950 00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:37.559 Hood River or White Salmon or both, you've probably driven 951 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:41.639 across a really narrow bridge that seems scaried across. And 952 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:47.239 it's because it just across last October. It's one hundred, 953 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:50.960 one hundred year anniversary. And so that bridge needs to go. 954 00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:55.320 And so there is an outfit called the Hood River 955 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:58.559 White Salmon Bridge Authority, which is separate of the Port 956 00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:03.639 of Hood River, which is to get funding, design and 957 00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.280 build and implement a new bridge across the river. And 958 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:10.360 I'm a board member representing Cood River County, a board 959 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:13.599 member alternate representing Cood River County on the Hood River 960 00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:18.000 White Sammo Bridge Authority working on that project. That's maybe 961 00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:20.079 travel for fishing. 962 00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.559 It's uh, that's just a colossal project. 963 00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:29.280 It is. It is really cool. I mean, my interest 964 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.880 in being involved in the bridge project was because actually, 965 00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:35.239 you know what I should I'm going to summarize all 966 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:39.920 of my community involvement is because because I have been 967 00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:42.800 for the last twenty some years standing behind a coffee bar, 968 00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:46.800 people ask me questions and the thing that drives me 969 00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:49.719 the most batshit crazy is there's just a lot of 970 00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.880 bad information out there, and I don't want to perpetuate 971 00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:55.960 that bad information. And the easiest way to know what 972 00:51:56.000 --> 00:52:00.280 the right answers are and the correct information is is 973 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.400 to be a part of one of the community organizations 974 00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:04.639 that's working on these projects and have the right information. 975 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.920 And so when the opportunity arose to volunteer for the 976 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:13.199 Bridge Authority, I knew that for the next however many 977 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:15.480 years it took to build a bridge that on a 978 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:18.719 daily or hourly basis, I was going to have people 979 00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:21.159 coming into the coffee shop and asking me across the bar, 980 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.199 what's going on with this? And instead of not knowing 981 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:27.119 the answer and not knowing where to point people for 982 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.280 the answers, I figured I would do what I always do, 983 00:52:30.280 --> 00:52:32.199 which is I just volunteered and decided to be part 984 00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:34.599 of the organization. And so now I don't know all 985 00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:37.599 the answers, but I can at least give people. I 986 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:42.320 can give people accurate information, and that that feels like 987 00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:44.039 the right thing to do, feels like what I should 988 00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:44.360 be doing. 989 00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:52.719 So what It's funny years ago, when I lived in 990 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:58.280 Western New York that down my kids went to school 991 00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:05.960 in towns especially butted up to each other and they 992 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:13.079 decided they wanted to just combine it. And there was 993 00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:16.480 this big stink in town, people bitching about all the 994 00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:20.800 dumb options for the name and stuff. And then one 995 00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:26.320 day in the grocery store, the I think that the 996 00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:29.840 woman behind me in line was complaining about it being 997 00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:36.039 called Bloomfield, and I turned around and asked her. I said, 998 00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:39.000 did you vote? And he goes, well, no, And I 999 00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:44.559 said the final vote was like forty eight to fifty seven. 1000 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:49.159 Hardly anybody voted. Why are people complaining if you don't 1001 00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:50.800 even make the effort to get involved? 1002 00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:55.599 Sure, sure, and I would. I'll pile on with that 1003 00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.960 and say that I don't think everyone needs to get involved, 1004 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.639 because that doesn't work either, But somebody asked to. And 1005 00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:04.440 I don't mean to suggest by any means that I'm 1006 00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:07.679 uniquely qualified to be that person who's involved. I'm just 1007 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.079 interested enough and willing to go through. 1008 00:54:10.159 --> 00:54:12.960 Well, you'll put the effort in get involved. Yeah, And 1009 00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:17.719 I think one of the things on a local level, 1010 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.559 and I'm the worst defender because I'm not involved at 1011 00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:24.599 all right now. But if there's things happening that you 1012 00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.880 don't like. If you're sitting around waiting for somebody else 1013 00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:32.320 to stop them, you're probably going to be disappointed. I 1014 00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:34.960 know years ago, when I was in college, I was 1015 00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:38.159 really involved in the local TU chapter and we did 1016 00:54:38.199 --> 00:54:42.239 a big statewide event and despite all the talk, it 1017 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:44.840 was pretty much put on by three of us, and 1018 00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:48.360 it was really about a ten person job because most 1019 00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:51.599 people are willing to give an opinion. But that's where 1020 00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:52.800 it stops. 1021 00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:56.880 Yeah, yeah, definitely, And it's you know what's been interesting 1022 00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.159 is with that community involvement, it's made it easier and 1023 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:02.639 more interesting for me to get involved with groups like 1024 00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:06.519 the Native Fish Society and be active, reasonably active within 1025 00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:10.079 that organization and an active you know, trying to work 1026 00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:13.760 on projects around our our waterways, you know, in and 1027 00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:17.400 around Hood River. So I'm always up for those those 1028 00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:19.239 fights as well when it makes sense. 1029 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:21.000 Well, it's it's nice too when you did you get 1030 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.199 involved in something like that, you just meet more people 1031 00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:26.719 with similar interests and uh, some of the some of 1032 00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.239 uh my buddy Terry Rogers, I wouldn't know if I 1033 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:35.039 hadn't gone in to do red counts through Native Fish. 1034 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:39.519 And you've gotten to be really good friends. So Nate, 1035 00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:42.639 tell me how you got started doing leather work. 1036 00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:47.400 Well, I got started, uh, you know, by happenstance, like 1037 00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:49.880 I think a lot of folks do, getting into various 1038 00:55:49.920 --> 00:55:53.320 things that they eventually get interested in. I was searching 1039 00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:56.599 around for an idea years ago to come up with 1040 00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:59.239 some Christmas gifts for all my my close you know 1041 00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:02.480 friends who were also my fishing buddies. And you know, 1042 00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.800 it occurred to me, I think, I'm not sure how 1043 00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:07.760 much of this you'll keep from the previous version. But 1044 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:11.199 we had talked a little bit about Arnie Mason. So 1045 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:15.039 there's a gentleman in southern Oregon who did fly wallets 1046 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:18.719 and leather fly wallets and some really beautiful real cases. 1047 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:23.119 And my wife had gotten me one of his fly 1048 00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:27.679 wallets as a gift maybe the year before, and you know, 1049 00:56:27.719 --> 00:56:29.519 I loved it. It was it was too big. It 1050 00:56:29.559 --> 00:56:31.320 was quite a big fly wallet. It wasn't really a 1051 00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:34.360 pocket size one, which which is totally fine, But that 1052 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.000 got me into this idea that the sort of the 1053 00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:39.920 subsequent year that I wanted to make something in a 1054 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:43.920 little pocket size fly wallet for all my fishing buddies. 1055 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:46.480 And so I went to you know, as many people do. 1056 00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:49.599 I went to Tandy Leather in Portland and bought just 1057 00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:54.239 the rudimentary tools and some raw materials and went at 1058 00:56:54.280 --> 00:56:57.039 it and made them little fly wallets. And you know, 1059 00:56:57.119 --> 00:57:00.320 I had material left over and had the tool and 1060 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:03.599 decided that, well, what else can I make out of 1061 00:57:03.639 --> 00:57:06.599 that stuff? And so you know that spurred, well, if 1062 00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:08.519 I can make a wallet with you know, shearling in 1063 00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:10.559 it for flies, I could surely make a wallet that 1064 00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:14.639 carries cards or cash. And so that's where it really 1065 00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.519 sprang from. And I haven't really stopped since. I guess, 1066 00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:19.639 you know, somebody, I think it's probably getting on to 1067 00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.119 be almost ten years close to that by now of 1068 00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:26.039 doing it, and it's it's really been. It's been. I 1069 00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:29.360 didn't realize I needed a hobby, and I didn't realize 1070 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:31.239 how much I really liked to make things until I 1071 00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:33.440 started doing it. And now I really is. 1072 00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:35.280 That kind of the first thing you started making? 1073 00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.519 It is? It is in my background when I, as 1074 00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:43.280 we talked about before, I had worked in outdoor retail, 1075 00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.199 and so I monkeyed around with backpacks and ski gear 1076 00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:50.280 and climbing gear and paddling gear and gotten pretty pretty 1077 00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:53.519 interested in how those things are made. And when I 1078 00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:55.800 first moved to Hood River, a couple of years after 1079 00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:58.679 I was here, I ended up working for the folks 1080 00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:01.639 at Decine when they were still here. I did product 1081 00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:05.519 development for their backpack and travel bagline, and so that's 1082 00:58:05.559 --> 00:58:08.840 where I really got into understanding how packs and bags 1083 00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:12.119 are made. I mean we I would take two sometimes 1084 00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.639 three trips to Asia a year to you know, go 1085 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:17.840 through all the samples and work at the factory with 1086 00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:22.400 our factory partners, and so I really got immersed in 1087 00:58:22.519 --> 00:58:25.519 sort of sewing techniques and how things were put together. 1088 00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:28.480 But I never thought about doing it myself. I just 1089 00:58:28.639 --> 00:58:31.360 was interested in it. And once I made that first 1090 00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:35.119 set of fly wallets for my buddies, that those two things, 1091 00:58:35.159 --> 00:58:38.679 although they were separated by many years, sort of really 1092 00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:42.280 came together and I kind of found a thing I 1093 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:45.679 really liked, which is I like making stuff, and you know, 1094 00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:48.519 I'm so still so bad at it that I you know, 1095 00:58:48.559 --> 00:58:51.480 I just am continually learning and trying to figure it 1096 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:53.719 out and get better at it. And you know, work for. 1097 00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:58.039 I would say, that's that's the wrong word. You're not 1098 00:58:58.159 --> 00:59:01.679 bad at it. The the things I have from you 1099 00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:09.920 show meticulousness and a good aesthetic, a niceyesthetic. So nope, 1100 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:13.480 not bad. Maybe maybe not as experienced as you want 1101 00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:13.679 to be. 1102 00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.519 Yeah, I mean, I think what I realized right away 1103 00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:20.320 with making things was number one, I really enjoyed the 1104 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:24.039 process of designing things. There's certainly, you know, one avenue 1105 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.480 that you can take with leather goods in any of 1106 00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:29.400 this stuff is you can you can buy patterns and 1107 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:34.039 and create things based on someone else's designs. And that 1108 00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:36.199 really wasn't that didn't interest me at all. What I 1109 00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:39.119 really got interested in was coming up with my own 1110 00:59:39.159 --> 00:59:42.960 designs and coming up with ideas that met sort of 1111 00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.400 my needs. I guess more than anything else, I never 1112 00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:49.039 intended it to be a you know, a no. I mean, 1113 00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:50.920 it is a business, but I didn't intend it to 1114 00:59:50.920 --> 00:59:54.360 be a you know, a retail style business. So I've 1115 00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:57.599 always had the freedom to build the things that I 1116 00:59:57.639 --> 00:59:59.400 want to carry. So like, if I want to carry 1117 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:02.000 a cool wall, I make one for myself. And you know, 1118 01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:05.400 but I'm thoughtful about keeping track of what I did, 1119 01:00:05.559 --> 01:00:08.320 how I did it. I've got copious notes on everything 1120 01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:10.400 that I built, and I've got a file for that 1121 01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:13.639 with all the patterns, and so it's it's a really 1122 01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:16.639 fun process and that respect in that it it's everything 1123 01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:18.679 from you know, getting out the ruler and the grid 1124 01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.599 paper and designing things to seeing it come to life 1125 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:25.000 and foam first maybe and then you know, into a 1126 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:28.079 real life product that I get to carry around. And 1127 01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:31.199 because I have that freedom to and I'm not a 1128 01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:33.960 slave to trying to sell things to the marketplace, I 1129 01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:35.800 do get to make things that maybe are a little 1130 01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:38.840 bit different, but that I know will hold up to 1131 01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:41.320 my own use. I mean, I use all the stuff 1132 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:44.599 that I make, and so I'm very confident when I 1133 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:48.199 do sell a piece to someone that it will it 1134 01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:51.440 will function the way it's intended to. So yeah, so 1135 01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.400 that's that's where it's it's and it's branched into all 1136 01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:56.960 the things that happen when you someone knows that you 1137 01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:59.800 make leather things, which is, you know, a constant string 1138 01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:02.599 of can you fix this? Can you repair this? Can 1139 01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:06.119 you put a strap on this? You know, for various 1140 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:09.719 things in people. And then I've done a lot of 1141 01:01:09.719 --> 01:01:12.599 custom kind of fun custom work. I mean I have 1142 01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:16.360 menu wine menus at a couple of restaurants here in 1143 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:21.559 the Gorge. I have wrapped the yokes on two different 1144 01:01:21.559 --> 01:01:25.719 people's cessna's you know that didn't have wraps before, so 1145 01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:30.800 doing essentially plane steering wheel wraps. Last fall, I did 1146 01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:37.159 a huge project with a local welding custom welding outfit. 1147 01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:39.719 They were building railings for this house up on the 1148 01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:45.159 click Atat and I did a thirteen foot railing across 1149 01:01:45.199 --> 01:01:48.280 a loft, you know, down into the main space of 1150 01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:53.039 the house, and also a handrail and a safety railing 1151 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:54.800 on the other side of this set of stairs. So 1152 01:01:56.360 --> 01:02:00.480 I did, yeah, on the handrail, the safety rail along 1153 01:02:00.519 --> 01:02:03.000 the side of the stairs, we wrapped that in leather, 1154 01:02:03.599 --> 01:02:06.599 and then the two railings I guess, well, I guess 1155 01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:08.440 those are the safety railings. What we did is we 1156 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.840 figured out how to put the welded spindles in and 1157 01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:17.000 then we laced leather through all of that all thirteen 1158 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.360 feet so there was a continuous piece of leather wrapped 1159 01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:22.960 through that entire thing. So it added this really neat 1160 01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:29.239 texture and color to it. Obviously, the because of the 1161 01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:32.320 safety requirements, the spindles were where they needed to be 1162 01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:34.880 to meet code. But then in between all of that 1163 01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.119 we strung leather. So that was a huge project. That 1164 01:02:38.800 --> 01:02:43.960 project was probably six months total. Time, you know, from 1165 01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:47.840 design to having our friends at Future Folks Supply Company 1166 01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:50.639 here in Hood River did all the welding, the custom welding. 1167 01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:53.679 So took them, you know, forever to get those railings 1168 01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:55.639 built and then get them installed in the house. And 1169 01:02:55.679 --> 01:03:00.199 then I spent gosh, I probably spent two weeks, you know, 1170 01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:02.800 at least three or four days a week. I think 1171 01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:05.760 I did something like, I don't know, like forty two 1172 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:08.480 hours of a lapse time sitting in that house on 1173 01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:11.800 my knees, hands and knees, stringing leather and stitching it 1174 01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:13.360 through those railings. 1175 01:03:13.639 --> 01:03:13.840 It was. 1176 01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:15.960 It was a crazy project, and it was way bigger 1177 01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:18.880 than that I had anticipated that it would be when 1178 01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:21.800 we when we bid it out. Luckily I bid it 1179 01:03:21.800 --> 01:03:24.719 out well enough to cover my cost and my labor 1180 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:28.480 that I didn't screw up too bad. But the actual 1181 01:03:28.519 --> 01:03:30.480 amount of work that was evolved in it was it 1182 01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:33.400 was nutty. I don't know that it's like my aesthetic. 1183 01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:35.000 I don't know if I would put that railing in 1184 01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:38.079 my house, but for a River cabin on the click 1185 01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:41.480 at that it was kind of perfect. It really, it 1186 01:03:41.599 --> 01:03:45.480 really worked well with the interior design gal from Seattle. 1187 01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:48.199 It turned out nice, but that was a cool So 1188 01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.519 just by way of saying that it's it's you know, 1189 01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:54.599 started at basic pocket sized fly wallets and now has 1190 01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:59.039 gone into with future folks supply. I also did a 1191 01:03:59.079 --> 01:04:03.679 coffee table, a shelf underneath a slab of metal coffee 1192 01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.920 table that we strung a big piece of leather to 1193 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.039 make an undershelf like a bookshelf underneath it. And so yeah, 1194 01:04:10.079 --> 01:04:13.639 I've done a lot of really unique things. And you know, 1195 01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:16.199 as I mentioned before, the litany of repairs. You know, 1196 01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:18.400 can you fix this pair of boots my dog chewed through? 1197 01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:21.639 And I take on those projects and I never say 1198 01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:24.039 yes first. I always make someone bring me the repair 1199 01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:27.400 item first, because some of that stuff, you know, it's 1200 01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:29.039 just too hard to you have to take it all 1201 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:31.800 the way apart down to it. In some things, the 1202 01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:34.199 way that they're constructed, they were never meant to be repaired. 1203 01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.760 This is one of the things that's been quite interesting, 1204 01:04:37.719 --> 01:04:43.679 and it is it's definitely affected how I build the 1205 01:04:43.679 --> 01:04:46.880 things that I build. Is I do try with everything 1206 01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:49.559 that I put together, I do try to think what 1207 01:04:49.599 --> 01:04:51.880 would happen if I had to do a repair on this, 1208 01:04:52.519 --> 01:04:54.440 and I take it apart and put it back together. 1209 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:59.360 So the perfect or the best analogy is shoes and 1210 01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:03.920 boots with the advent of you know, glue and rubber 1211 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:07.880 and things, soles on work boots and shoes in general 1212 01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:10.840 are glued on. Now you can't really resole them. They're 1213 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:12.880 not meant to be that way. You can't take them 1214 01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:16.119 apart and put them back together. The stitch down style boots, 1215 01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:18.840 whether it be a pair of Whites or Nicks or 1216 01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.519 you know some of the danners, those things are made 1217 01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:25.320 to be resold and taken apart and reconfigured as they age. 1218 01:05:25.639 --> 01:05:29.679 And so it's been interesting as I've gotten repairs in 1219 01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:32.639 from people a repair projects and had to say no 1220 01:05:32.679 --> 01:05:34.280 because I can't take things all the way apart and 1221 01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:38.000 put them back together. I've kind of I've educated my 1222 01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:42.119 own products in a way that or I've created my 1223 01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:43.960 products in a way that I know that with all 1224 01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.920 of them, I can take them apart easily and do 1225 01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:48.840 a repair if I need to, which makes me feel 1226 01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:50.719 good because you know, I can't tell what people are 1227 01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:52.559 going to do with a you know, a tote bag 1228 01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:54.320 that I give them and they're dog Couto. In fact, 1229 01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:57.719 our neighboring business to the coffee shop Toky Art Supply 1230 01:05:57.800 --> 01:06:00.760 here in hood River. The gal who was at Janet, 1231 01:06:01.159 --> 01:06:03.199 she commissioned me to make a wallet for her, and 1232 01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.159 you know, it was cool. It was a fun project 1233 01:06:05.159 --> 01:06:08.519 because it melded two different wallet styles that I had 1234 01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:13.360 into one a little bit different, you know than I'd 1235 01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:16.079 done before, and so it was it was a cool project. 1236 01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:18.159 It was super fun. I gave it to her and 1237 01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:22.639 two days later her pet rabbit had chewed mostly a 1238 01:06:22.639 --> 01:06:24.920 hole right through it, and so it was one that 1239 01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:26.800 I had to do some repair work on. And I 1240 01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:28.280 was glad that I designed it the way I did 1241 01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:30.880 because it wasn't that hard to fit. I mean, it 1242 01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:33.199 was complicated to take it apart and fix the thing, 1243 01:06:33.239 --> 01:06:35.119 but I was able to do it, and I felt 1244 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:39.360 validated in some of the design choices. So yeah, so 1245 01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:42.559 that's you know, at this point with the I build 1246 01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:46.679 stuff for I have, I only just this year started 1247 01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:48.519 to have a little bit of a retail presence. I 1248 01:06:48.559 --> 01:06:51.000 have a few of my wallet styles and a few 1249 01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.920 other things at a local artist co op consignment shop 1250 01:06:55.960 --> 01:06:59.320 in Parkdale called the four to one. One of my 1251 01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:03.719 very early purchasers of a wallet, this gal named Anna, 1252 01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:07.519 who owns the four to one. She badgered me into 1253 01:07:07.519 --> 01:07:09.360 putting some of my stuff up in her spot, and 1254 01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:11.079 so I do have a little bit of a retail 1255 01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:14.840 presence now, but she doesn't push me to either you know, 1256 01:07:14.960 --> 01:07:17.239 refill it or not. I can, I don't have to, 1257 01:07:17.719 --> 01:07:19.960 but I sometimes, you know, when I get the urge too, 1258 01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:21.880 I can build a little pile of stuff and bring 1259 01:07:21.880 --> 01:07:23.920 it up to her and have it kind of sell 1260 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:29.000 as as needed. Otherwise I'm basically selling two people who 1261 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.679 I know, and that's until this year. I think this 1262 01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:33.559 is an important I know this is an important It's 1263 01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:36.440 an important point point to me in why I do 1264 01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:40.360 this is I love knowing that almost everything that I've 1265 01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:42.840 made is in the hands of someone that I either 1266 01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:47.079 know personally or no close to personally within you know, 1267 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:50.599 a friend of a friend and close close associates, and 1268 01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:53.880 that that is really rewarding to me. It's not that 1269 01:07:54.039 --> 01:07:56.880 I'm not that interested in having all my stuff go 1270 01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.679 into anonymous hands. And that's been a bit of a 1271 01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:01.960 jumb spent this year with the things that I have 1272 01:08:02.119 --> 01:08:04.360 sold up at the four to one. In part tail 1273 01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:07.000 is I have had people show up here at the 1274 01:08:07.039 --> 01:08:10.239 coffee shop while I'm slinging coffee and say, hey, thanks 1275 01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:11.880 for the wallet. I got one of your wallets. And 1276 01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:14.320 there are people that I don't know, I don't recognize, 1277 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:16.439 and I might know them from town, but I don't 1278 01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.399 know how they would have gotten a hold of one 1279 01:08:18.439 --> 01:08:20.439 of my pieces, because I do keep it kind of 1280 01:08:20.439 --> 01:08:22.680 a close rain on it. And then I have to 1281 01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:24.720 kind of, you know, in my own head, kind of 1282 01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:27.199 shake my head and realize, like, oh, yeah, I forgot 1283 01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:29.520 I have stuff that's available to the public now and 1284 01:08:29.560 --> 01:08:32.000 where some rando could buy something of mine. And so 1285 01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:34.760 that's a little bit of an adjustment to that because 1286 01:08:34.760 --> 01:08:37.760 I don't It's not I guess I think I said 1287 01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:39.960 just a second ago. I like to have control over it. 1288 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:42.680 It's not a control issue. It's more I want the 1289 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:44.680 things to go into the hands of people who I 1290 01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:47.640 know will appreciate them and use them, instead of buying 1291 01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:50.159 them and throwing them in a dusty drawer or giving 1292 01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:54.439 them to somebody who won't won't appreciate it. And that's 1293 01:08:54.520 --> 01:08:56.760 that is a I suppose a bit of a level 1294 01:08:56.760 --> 01:08:59.359 of selfishness because I put a lot of time and 1295 01:08:59.359 --> 01:09:01.880 effort into the thing, and so I like to make 1296 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:03.720 sure that people are going to use it because it's 1297 01:09:03.720 --> 01:09:05.199 meant to be used. I mean, none of this stuff 1298 01:09:05.239 --> 01:09:07.399 is meant to be you know, sitting in a drawer. 1299 01:09:07.479 --> 01:09:09.119 It's meant to go in your pocket and get the 1300 01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:11.039 shit beat out of it and you know, go on 1301 01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:11.880 adventures with you. 1302 01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:18.840 Yeah. It's It's funny that when you go from something 1303 01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:23.720 being a hobby to getting paid for it, there is 1304 01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:30.560 a a mental adjustment on where that place is in 1305 01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:35.079 your life. You know, when it becomes a source of money. 1306 01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:37.600 When I was a kid and I first I've sold 1307 01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:39.359 a few drawgs and stuff, I'd be all excited because 1308 01:09:39.359 --> 01:09:42.239 I could go buy something fun. And then one day 1309 01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:44.800 you sell something big and you realize, oh, I need 1310 01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:49.920 snow tires and it's just your cash flow. Yeah, and 1311 01:09:50.079 --> 01:09:52.399 it does. It puts you in a different spot. And 1312 01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:55.760 the flip side for me is I got a I 1313 01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:57.680 can't remember, I got an email or a text. I 1314 01:09:57.680 --> 01:09:59.680 think it was an email from a guy asked me 1315 01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:02.520 if I recognize this painting and I said yeah, and 1316 01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:06.199 I had a scratch in it, and he said, can 1317 01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:07.840 you tell me what it's worth? Like I said, well, 1318 01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:10.520 I can tell you what I sold it for. Uh, 1319 01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:13.199 and I said, and if you send it to me, 1320 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.039 because it's not that big a piece, it won't cost 1321 01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:18.840 you very much money. And I'll take the varnish off 1322 01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:21.600 and revarnish it for you and get rid of that scratch. 1323 01:10:22.199 --> 01:10:23.680 And he goes, oh, no, I don't mind the scratch. 1324 01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:26.520 It makes me happy about where I got it. I 1325 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:28.520 paid five dollars for this at Goodwill. 1326 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.000 Oh man, how do you navigate that? 1327 01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:37.880 You just say it good, I'm glad you're happy. Yeah, 1328 01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:43.479 you know, it's it's funny to me that somebody would 1329 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:46.760 pay me what they did for that and then when 1330 01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:49.920 they redecorated, just take it to Goodwill. But yeah, that's 1331 01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:53.279 that's you know, that's there. That's the owner's prerogative. 1332 01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:56.439 Oh totally. And I don't think I was trying to 1333 01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:59.199 suggest that I want to take control of how people 1334 01:10:59.319 --> 01:11:02.439 use the things I make for them, but I do. 1335 01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:04.159 But I do want to make sure that they do 1336 01:11:04.279 --> 01:11:06.079 get used. I mean, I feel like it's silly for 1337 01:11:06.119 --> 01:11:08.000 them not to. I mean, I think you'd feel the 1338 01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:10.000 same way if someone bought something and left it wrapped 1339 01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:11.720 up in the brown paper and never put it off. 1340 01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:14.520 I mean, then it's not doing what it's supposed to do. 1341 01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:17.159 I have a friend up in the Rondacks who makes 1342 01:11:17.199 --> 01:11:23.279 just spectacular guide boats, a traditional Androndeck guideboat, but they're 1343 01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:26.520 all made to hang in really expensive lodges. Yeah, and 1344 01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:30.920 he he would kill to have someone use his over 1345 01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:33.880 a lifetime and wear it out and have to bring 1346 01:11:33.960 --> 01:11:34.600 in for repair. 1347 01:11:35.159 --> 01:11:36.159 And nobody does. 1348 01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:39.560 No, no, no, because I mean his his boats. The 1349 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:42.399 last one he sold was like sixty five thousand. Yeah, 1350 01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:45.760 so it's it's not something you're probably going to take 1351 01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:50.880 your grandson on a you know, a trip in although 1352 01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:52.039 if I had the money to buy one, I. 1353 01:11:52.039 --> 01:11:56.560 Would yeah, hell yeah, use it all the time. 1354 01:11:57.199 --> 01:12:02.960 Yeah. So what do you make and what are you 1355 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:04.640 conjuring next to make? 1356 01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:09.079 Well? Funny, in between our conversations last time and now, 1357 01:12:09.279 --> 01:12:13.439 I had somebody reach out to me about a just 1358 01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:16.680 a trout fishing leader wallet, and I've never made one. 1359 01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:19.359 I don't know why. It seems silly. I mean I 1360 01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:22.359 end up, like you said, I'm steelhead fishing most of 1361 01:12:22.399 --> 01:12:24.600 the time, and so I have kit for all that gear, 1362 01:12:25.079 --> 01:12:27.600 and when I do go trout fishing, I basically just 1363 01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:29.720 jam a bunch of shit in my you know, in 1364 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:31.800 my pocket and my waiters. Because I don't do it 1365 01:12:31.800 --> 01:12:34.880 that often. I'm not as as tricked out, you know, 1366 01:12:34.920 --> 01:12:38.319 and organized as as people that do it really regularly are. 1367 01:12:38.920 --> 01:12:41.119 And it just, yeah, it was kind of a fun. 1368 01:12:41.680 --> 01:12:41.840 It was. 1369 01:12:42.079 --> 01:12:44.079 It's a friend of mine and he had just asked 1370 01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:46.520 if I if I had if I do one, and 1371 01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:48.840 I said no, I never have, and he was like, well, 1372 01:12:48.880 --> 01:12:50.880 don't do anything. I'm like, I no, no, it's okay, I 1373 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:53.479 want to do it. So it's kind of fun. I've 1374 01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:55.640 got things out on the workbench right now to do, 1375 01:12:56.439 --> 01:12:58.479 you know, product development again, you know, to start from 1376 01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:01.439 scratch and kind of figure out how I wanted to work. 1377 01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:03.640 And so that's kind of fun. I've gotten very far 1378 01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:05.760 yet because we've had family in town for the holiday, 1379 01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:08.520 but that's the next thing that I'm gonna jump into. 1380 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:11.479 And then at some point, usually around this time of year, 1381 01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:15.840 I get a frantic text from Schomberg saying he needs 1382 01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:20.359 bags for his reels. He likes to particularly wait until 1383 01:13:20.359 --> 01:13:24.479 it's the coldest possible possible, the most cold days in 1384 01:13:24.560 --> 01:13:27.680 my shop, which is unheeded half of my garage. He 1385 01:13:28.479 --> 01:13:31.640 seems to know when it's going to be really cold. 1386 01:13:32.199 --> 01:13:35.079 He's trying to keep me hardy. So sometime soonish, I 1387 01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:37.920 presume I'll be getting a text from him about reel 1388 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:41.560 bags for for his next batch of reels, so those 1389 01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:43.560 will be kind of the next big things. And then 1390 01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:48.760 after that, I do have another friend of mine needs 1391 01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:51.479 to yank the yokes out of their their other airplane 1392 01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:53.640 while they're not using it this winter, and I need 1393 01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.880 to wrap those yokes make him look look fancy like 1394 01:13:57.880 --> 01:14:00.399 their other plane. In fact, I gotta reach I need 1395 01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:02.039 to harass them about pulling those things out of the 1396 01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:04.279 plane when it's in the hangar this week and getting 1397 01:14:04.319 --> 01:14:05.640 them to me so that I can work on those. 1398 01:14:05.680 --> 01:14:07.239 Oh, so he can actually just you don't have to 1399 01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:09.279 go to the plane. He can just bring you the 1400 01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:10.000 yolks and you can. 1401 01:14:09.880 --> 01:14:11.439 Do he just pulls the yolks out, and I can 1402 01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:14.560 do it in my shop, which excuse me, which actually 1403 01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:18.239 works out great because the easiest way or the way 1404 01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:20.800 to do it is im I essentially get the leather 1405 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:23.800 super wet, what they call casing the leather, which is 1406 01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:26.159 what they do for saddles and things to make it 1407 01:14:26.239 --> 01:14:29.479 take compound curves. The best thing to do is to 1408 01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:32.199 get it totally saturated and then it actually molds almost 1409 01:14:32.279 --> 01:14:35.239 like clay. But then it'll also set up and keep 1410 01:14:35.319 --> 01:14:37.760 that shape. And so the easiest thing to do is 1411 01:14:37.800 --> 01:14:40.439 if I can get the pieces so that The way 1412 01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:42.479 those yolks are set up is they're just like an 1413 01:14:42.520 --> 01:14:45.199 old school steering wheel. They got all the little fingernat notches, 1414 01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:47.039 you know, in the back of them. And so the 1415 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:50.319 part that I wrap, I don't do the whole rectangular thing. 1416 01:14:50.359 --> 01:14:53.600 I'm just doing the grip area. And so I get 1417 01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:57.279 that that the piece of leather cut for each side, 1418 01:14:57.800 --> 01:14:59.880 I case it, get it in water and let it 1419 01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:03.720 sit for a while, and then I get it wrapped around, 1420 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:06.279 and then essentially I just wrap it in soran wrap, 1421 01:15:07.279 --> 01:15:09.600 you know, and bring it inside and let it sit 1422 01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:12.600 for a few days until it's dry enough, and then 1423 01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:15.159 I can pull the saran wrap off. The shape stays 1424 01:15:15.239 --> 01:15:16.960 about right, and then at the butt on the back 1425 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:20.199 of it, I can stitch it together, do a butt 1426 01:15:20.279 --> 01:15:23.399 stitch so and then then it's kind of done. But 1427 01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:25.880 it takes a couple of days, and it's easier. I 1428 01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:27.960 don't think I would be able to accomplish that in 1429 01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:30.000 the plane, just because it's nicer to be able to 1430 01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.600 have them sitting right on my workbench. Oh yeah, and 1431 01:15:32.680 --> 01:15:34.840 you know, hold them in place and wrap everything up 1432 01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:35.920 with all the tools that I have. 1433 01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:38.640 It'd be like to be like trying to just sow 1434 01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:41.359 leather when you're in the position you are when you're 1435 01:15:41.439 --> 01:15:42.720 changing fuses in your car. 1436 01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:47.239 Yeah, exactly, it would be really complicated and yeah, cold 1437 01:15:47.319 --> 01:15:49.319 in the hangar. And so it's easier to do it 1438 01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:52.039 in my shop and and uh yeah, so that those 1439 01:15:52.039 --> 01:15:54.079 are kind of the next the next things that are 1440 01:15:54.119 --> 01:15:57.439 on the list. I did it. I've finally this year 1441 01:15:57.640 --> 01:16:00.920 got the sewing. I'm much more comfort on. So I 1442 01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:03.520 have my workshop is set up in that one side 1443 01:16:03.560 --> 01:16:06.319 of it is the leather shop, and on the other 1444 01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:09.039 side I have an industrial sewing machine that I'm just 1445 01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.199 becoming familiar with, and I don't use that for any 1446 01:16:11.199 --> 01:16:13.560 of the leather goods. I do for some of the softer, 1447 01:16:14.600 --> 01:16:18.039 lighterweight glovier leather. To use a term, I'll throw that 1448 01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:20.720 out there. But like the little bags for Shamberg's reels, 1449 01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:22.760 I use the sewing machine for that, But any of 1450 01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:27.079 the other leather products, those are all handstitched, and the 1451 01:16:27.119 --> 01:16:29.960 sewing machine is more something that I had an opportunity 1452 01:16:30.199 --> 01:16:32.600 to get one from a friend who had one, and 1453 01:16:32.640 --> 01:16:34.119 I was like, yay, I want it. I don't know 1454 01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:35.640 what I'm going to do with it, and so I'm 1455 01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:39.840 in slowly this last year, you know, making friends with it, 1456 01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:42.319 and it's been hard. I still don't intend to use 1457 01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:45.119 it for any of the leather goods because I like 1458 01:16:45.199 --> 01:16:49.000 the aesthetic of the handstitched look. It makes it way 1459 01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:52.279 slower and I can't produce as much. But I want 1460 01:16:52.319 --> 01:16:54.640 to start doing some things like just for fun, working 1461 01:16:54.680 --> 01:16:58.520 on outerwear and things like that. So this year, this fall, 1462 01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:02.039 I did my first jack it off of a pattern 1463 01:17:02.119 --> 01:17:04.600 from a gall in Portland, and I want to do 1464 01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.319 another one out of some different materials. So I'm hoping 1465 01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:09.439 that'll that'll be kind of a late winter project, just 1466 01:17:09.439 --> 01:17:11.119 to you know, fuck around at that and learn how 1467 01:17:11.119 --> 01:17:13.840 to sew more and better. I'm really bad at it, 1468 01:17:13.920 --> 01:17:14.880 but I'm getting there. 1469 01:17:15.319 --> 01:17:16.560 What kind of machine did you get? 1470 01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:20.560 So one of my former employees, a gal who worked 1471 01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.239 for us for about eight or nine years. Her mom 1472 01:17:24.680 --> 01:17:28.159 spent her entire career down in the Salem area working 1473 01:17:28.159 --> 01:17:31.720 as a seamstress for Nordstrom, and so when she retired 1474 01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:35.680 and over the years as the Nordstrum that she worked 1475 01:17:35.720 --> 01:17:39.439 at retired machines, she took a couple home and refurbished 1476 01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:41.560 them and had them in her house. Well, she had 1477 01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:45.760 two of this particular just it's just a conso two thirty. 1478 01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:50.560 So it's a straight, you know, straight stitch industrial machine 1479 01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:53.920 meant for you know, doing draperies and big long runs 1480 01:17:53.960 --> 01:17:56.800 that sort of thing. It's not necessarily designed to be 1481 01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:01.039 an outerwear you know, or bag machine, but it will 1482 01:18:01.039 --> 01:18:03.199 do most everything he needed to do. But it's in 1483 01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:05.680 fabulous condition. And she had two of them, and she 1484 01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:08.119 was trying to give it away to her daughter, who Phoebe, 1485 01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:10.760 who worked for us for years. And Phoebe is an 1486 01:18:10.760 --> 01:18:14.439 amazing she's she's just amazing in a lot of ways. 1487 01:18:14.479 --> 01:18:16.560 Like if you say, Phoebe, can you build a bridge, 1488 01:18:16.600 --> 01:18:18.319 She'll be like, yeah, hang on one second, then she'll 1489 01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:21.079 build a bridge. She's just astonishing that way. But she 1490 01:18:21.159 --> 01:18:23.439 already had a machine and not enough room, and so 1491 01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:25.760 she asked me, Hey, would you want one of my 1492 01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:28.640 mom's old machines. I'm like, yes, absolutely, this is a 1493 01:18:28.640 --> 01:18:30.119 couple of years ago. And I didn't like, I said, 1494 01:18:30.119 --> 01:18:31.199 I didn't know what I was going to do with 1495 01:18:31.199 --> 01:18:32.680 it or where I was going to put it. But 1496 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.319 I knew that that in the back of my head, 1497 01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:36.840 that was something I wanted next to start to play 1498 01:18:36.840 --> 01:18:39.079 around with. And so I got that one from her, 1499 01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:42.199 and it's in top notch condition. And now I'm starting 1500 01:18:42.199 --> 01:18:43.279 to screw around with that too. 1501 01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:45.880 So did you did you get a chance to talk 1502 01:18:45.880 --> 01:18:47.119 to Patty at all about it? 1503 01:18:48.039 --> 01:18:48.199 No? 1504 01:18:48.279 --> 01:18:52.359 I didn't, oh, because he just picked one up. Oh yeah. 1505 01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:54.920 He was a wildline firefighterup in Alaska and they have 1506 01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:59.239 a gear shut and it's all set up to make 1507 01:18:59.279 --> 01:19:02.560 gear repair and so he's sewn on and off for years. 1508 01:19:02.600 --> 01:19:04.560 I don't know if he's sewing yet, but he just 1509 01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:07.960 picked up I'm gonna blank on the name. It was 1510 01:19:07.960 --> 01:19:11.119 a name i'd never you know, I sowed in home 1511 01:19:11.159 --> 01:19:14.600 achin junior high. But I've actually always wanted to make 1512 01:19:14.600 --> 01:19:15.159 my own gear. 1513 01:19:16.840 --> 01:19:19.720 It's pretty, it's pretty fun, it's very it's uh. I 1514 01:19:20.039 --> 01:19:23.520 find it interesting and that there are some very particular 1515 01:19:23.600 --> 01:19:26.399 things where it is different than doing some of the 1516 01:19:26.479 --> 01:19:29.720 leather work with wallets and that, and it's a it's 1517 01:19:29.760 --> 01:19:32.560 a little bit of a different way of thinking. Everything 1518 01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:35.199 is kind of starts inside out and goes right right 1519 01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:37.840 side out versus with a lot of leather work, everything 1520 01:19:37.880 --> 01:19:42.319 starts right side out. And so there the seam allowance thing, 1521 01:19:42.439 --> 01:19:44.399 and some of the things that you do are different, 1522 01:19:44.439 --> 01:19:47.439 and there are a lot of tricks and techniques to 1523 01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:50.960 the different types of seams and things that you do 1524 01:19:51.039 --> 01:19:54.039 with fabrics that are really cool. I mean, they're really 1525 01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:59.159 you know, super interesting and intricate, and everyone's got a 1526 01:19:59.199 --> 01:20:01.800 trick for how to do something, you know. That's so 1527 01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:05.000 it's pretty cool to learn that a whole new set 1528 01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:08.119 of tricks, you know, the leather stuff. I've got many 1529 01:20:08.159 --> 01:20:10.520 of those tricks. I've got kind of on lock at 1530 01:20:10.520 --> 01:20:13.079 this point, not all of them obviously, and I don't 1531 01:20:13.079 --> 01:20:14.880 execute all of them as well as i'd like, but 1532 01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:17.720 I have a really good sense for how to approach 1533 01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:20.560 a project. With a sewing project on the machine, I 1534 01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:24.720 really am kind of really the shruggy shoulder, you know, emoticon. 1535 01:20:24.800 --> 01:20:26.640 I'm like, I don't know, you know, I don't know 1536 01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:29.000 how to approach it. And so that's really fun to 1537 01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:31.960 have a new thing where it's a lot of head scratching. Again, 1538 01:20:33.319 --> 01:20:35.520 So that's. 1539 01:20:36.840 --> 01:20:39.560 Part of what I enjoy, though, is when you're doing 1540 01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:44.000 when you're making stuff, the especially when you start something 1541 01:20:44.039 --> 01:20:47.039 new and you suck. Yeah, when you're a kid. In fact, 1542 01:20:47.079 --> 01:20:50.319 I just went through with my grandson that he wanted 1543 01:20:50.319 --> 01:20:53.479 to draw together and we were watching a little video 1544 01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:58.840 that's too fast paced for a little kid, and he 1545 01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:01.640 got very frustrated. And the thing that's nice. As you 1546 01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:05.359 get older, you feel the same frustration starting something, but 1547 01:21:05.479 --> 01:21:08.359 you have gone through enough life to realize, oh, it's 1548 01:21:08.359 --> 01:21:12.560 just the learning curve. Yeah, it's just I really like 1549 01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:15.920 because those first gains, you know, the first ten times 1550 01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:18.800 you do something, your gains are huge. It's once you 1551 01:21:18.840 --> 01:21:22.840 get relatively competent, it's something. The gains are minuscule. They 1552 01:21:22.920 --> 01:21:26.920 keep coming, but they're much less noticeable. Yeah, and those 1553 01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:29.159 first ones are so fun. 1554 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:32.319 Yeah. I think it's the same, the same probably, I 1555 01:21:32.319 --> 01:21:35.039 mean really it's universal. But same thing with you know, 1556 01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:38.279 with flytying, right, I mean you can you can get 1557 01:21:38.359 --> 01:21:42.000 way into it and make really exquisitely detailed things, or 1558 01:21:42.600 --> 01:21:44.840 you can choose a path that gets you to things 1559 01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:47.079 that are just enough to catch a fish, you know, 1560 01:21:47.119 --> 01:21:49.199 and you can you can choose whichever one of those 1561 01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:52.159 whatever that one of those stopping points along the way 1562 01:21:52.560 --> 01:21:54.199 I think that that's actually I don't know why I 1563 01:21:54.199 --> 01:21:56.840 thought of that, but that makes flytying almost a little 1564 01:21:56.880 --> 01:21:58.960 bit more unique than some of these other things. Because 1565 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.680 you always want to make that you know, wallet you're making, 1566 01:22:01.760 --> 01:22:03.520 or that jacket you're making. You want to get those 1567 01:22:03.560 --> 01:22:06.039 stitches right, you want to make them look really good. 1568 01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:09.359 There's no kind of in between, there's either, but with 1569 01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:12.000 fly tying there is kind of there is a there 1570 01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:14.279 isn't good enough, like it won't fall apart. I can 1571 01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:15.560 fish with it a bunch and. 1572 01:22:17.239 --> 01:22:17.720 Cash. 1573 01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:20.359 Yeah, it's kind of cool. I feel like that's a 1574 01:22:20.359 --> 01:22:25.079 little bit unique. And it's then versus saying, you know, 1575 01:22:25.119 --> 01:22:27.720 with you with painting or with making products that actually 1576 01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:30.359 need to hold up, I mean you can you can 1577 01:22:30.439 --> 01:22:33.479 kind of be a little more freestyling with with fly 1578 01:22:33.640 --> 01:22:37.119 tying and make things that work, which is kind of cool. 1579 01:22:37.680 --> 01:22:40.479 That's actually how most of my steel at tying is 1580 01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:46.960 winging it rather than tying a pattern. Yeah, I have 1581 01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:50.359 gotten down to where there's half a dozen flies. I 1582 01:22:50.399 --> 01:22:56.640 fish most of the time, but it's I was thinking 1583 01:22:56.680 --> 01:22:59.000 over the last few months, I'm probably gonna start tying 1584 01:22:59.039 --> 01:23:00.279 a lot more because I'm not and I have as 1585 01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:03.119 much opportunity to fish as I did was in Oregon. 1586 01:23:03.880 --> 01:23:06.439 So I think there's a lot of that. There's a 1587 01:23:06.479 --> 01:23:09.479 lot of gear acquisition goes into people who aren't getting 1588 01:23:09.520 --> 01:23:11.159 to do the thing they love to do as much. 1589 01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:14.119 Yeah, yeah, there's that, that's for sure. 1590 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:17.119 So what else? What else did we miss? What have 1591 01:23:17.199 --> 01:23:20.920 we had not talked about? So? 1592 01:23:22.119 --> 01:23:24.279 I know Coleby mentioned it when you guys chatted a 1593 01:23:24.359 --> 01:23:26.520 little bit, you know, he and I have had the 1594 01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:32.119 opportunity over the years, over the last well since twenty fifteen, Yeah, 1595 01:23:32.159 --> 01:23:36.199 so almost ten years now, variously being able to help 1596 01:23:36.720 --> 01:23:39.640 the Hickman's out with their project up at Kim's Quick Bay, 1597 01:23:39.720 --> 01:23:42.359 and that that's been super fun. It's been a really 1598 01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:47.000 neat experience to I've never seen the place in full swing, 1599 01:23:47.399 --> 01:23:48.840 you know, to see what it's like when the clients 1600 01:23:48.880 --> 01:23:51.880 are there, because I've always been there beforehand. But it's 1601 01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:53.920 been a neat it's been a neat project to watch 1602 01:23:54.039 --> 01:23:56.399 that in a really special place. And I think Colby, 1603 01:23:56.600 --> 01:23:59.119 you know, touched on that too about how what a 1604 01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:04.520 cool and a unique, very unique experience it is up there, 1605 01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:08.399 such a cool piece of river. It's such a neat 1606 01:24:08.479 --> 01:24:12.279 group of people that that ends up being I think 1607 01:24:12.319 --> 01:24:15.520 this is Steelhead Fishing generally. I mean, the the group 1608 01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:19.640 of people that that that end up in Steelhead Fishing's 1609 01:24:19.840 --> 01:24:23.520 orbit are always really interesting and unique and fun people 1610 01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:26.079 to hang out with. I think that goes for you know, 1611 01:24:26.119 --> 01:24:28.560 it goes for the the shoots, it goes for individual 1612 01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:32.640 communities within the steelheading community. Like there's you know, obviously 1613 01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:36.159 all the bamboo folks, myself included. You know, that's a 1614 01:24:36.279 --> 01:24:39.960 unique subset of people within that orbit. You know, the 1615 01:24:40.039 --> 01:24:47.000 people the setup crew, you know at Kim Squitt was 1616 01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:49.159 where I first met James Reid and hung out with 1617 01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:53.319 him for you know, two years in a row up there. 1618 01:24:54.319 --> 01:24:57.640 It's where I met Pappy, you know, Ryan White, who 1619 01:24:57.760 --> 01:25:01.039 I have one of his rods. You know Colby I 1620 01:25:01.119 --> 01:25:02.680 drug him up there in one of the years, and 1621 01:25:02.760 --> 01:25:04.800 now he's been up there almost but I don't know 1622 01:25:04.800 --> 01:25:06.199 if he's been up there more years than I have. 1623 01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:11.159 But just some really unique people and cool folks that 1624 01:25:12.279 --> 01:25:15.840 you know, really are passionate about the fish, passionate about fishing, 1625 01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:19.520 and passionate about helping you know, that project get off 1626 01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:21.880 the ground. So pretty cool, I mean, you know, and 1627 01:25:22.239 --> 01:25:26.239 just meet people that are they're willing to work hard, 1628 01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:26.880 play hard. 1629 01:25:27.520 --> 01:25:27.720 Yeah. 1630 01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:30.319 At the same time, you know, Barrett included and you 1631 01:25:30.399 --> 01:25:33.960 know his wife Kate. Yeah, just it. It's pretty pretty interesting. 1632 01:25:34.079 --> 01:25:37.399 So yeah, I got an opportunity. So Jeff and Catherine 1633 01:25:37.800 --> 01:25:40.479 bought the lodge. I'm going to murder of the dates, 1634 01:25:40.560 --> 01:25:42.000 but I think that it was at the end of 1635 01:25:42.079 --> 01:25:46.039 the of twenty fourteen season, and they went up there 1636 01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:50.520 and got to shut the place down with the previous 1637 01:25:50.600 --> 01:25:57.520 owner justin Blackwell, and you know, kind of get a 1638 01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:00.560 sense for what they were getting into for the following year. 1639 01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:03.279 Twenty fifteen was going to be their first year of 1640 01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:06.319 operating it themselves. And so over the winter of twenty 1641 01:26:06.359 --> 01:26:09.399 fourteen to fifteen, you know, we got around. Jeff was 1642 01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:12.479 looking for some people to who are dumb enough to 1643 01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:13.920 want to go up there with him, and you know, 1644 01:26:14.079 --> 01:26:18.319 unearthed the place from a winter a winter's slumber, and I, 1645 01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:20.680 you know, for whatever reason, I was like, hell, yeah, 1646 01:26:20.760 --> 01:26:23.359 I want to do it, and I yeah, and I 1647 01:26:23.479 --> 01:26:25.680 was like, yeah, let's let's do it. So that first 1648 01:26:25.800 --> 01:26:30.239 year I went up there with Jeff and Catherine and 1649 01:26:31.840 --> 01:26:36.960 we met up with his two guides. That year, a 1650 01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:40.560 guy named Morgan and a guy named Matt, and both 1651 01:26:40.640 --> 01:26:43.960 of them were were very helpful in that first year 1652 01:26:44.039 --> 01:26:48.600 setup because both of them had experience as electricians, professional electricians, 1653 01:26:49.520 --> 01:26:52.079 and so they were they were the pros. I was 1654 01:26:52.199 --> 01:26:55.119 just the schlepper, come around and do whatever. But yeah, 1655 01:26:55.159 --> 01:26:58.039 that first year. You know, if you've see you've seen 1656 01:26:58.079 --> 01:27:00.840 images from up there, I mean the lodge justly gorgeous. 1657 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:03.479 The setting is absolutely gorgeous. Let me tell you, the 1658 01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:06.039 place was a wreck when we got there in twenty fifteen. 1659 01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:10.239 I mean it functioned, but barely. You know, the people 1660 01:27:10.319 --> 01:27:14.720 that were long term clients I think were probably like, eh, 1661 01:27:15.039 --> 01:27:18.439 you know, the accommodations aren't great, you know whatever, the 1662 01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:20.680 place is a bit of a shambles, but the fishing 1663 01:27:20.760 --> 01:27:22.960 is so good, We'll keep coming back. And you know, 1664 01:27:23.119 --> 01:27:25.880 I think, I mean, Jeff has to speak for himself here, 1665 01:27:25.960 --> 01:27:28.840 but I think his vision was always to make the 1666 01:27:29.640 --> 01:27:32.720 experience of being there, you know, on par with the fishing, 1667 01:27:33.159 --> 01:27:35.960 and that was really the push. And that's where you know, 1668 01:27:36.079 --> 01:27:40.319 each year twenty fifteen or yeah, twenty fifteen, sixteen, seventeen eighteen, 1669 01:27:40.439 --> 01:27:44.159 you know, all through that every year he Jeff would 1670 01:27:44.399 --> 01:27:46.640 round up a crew of people to come up and 1671 01:27:46.720 --> 01:27:48.840 do a set of projects. I mean basically, you know, 1672 01:27:49.479 --> 01:27:52.119 throughout the year when the guests were there, he would 1673 01:27:52.119 --> 01:27:55.239 continue to work on whatever those those projects were that 1674 01:27:55.359 --> 01:27:58.439 got started that year. But just being up there by himself, 1675 01:27:58.680 --> 01:28:00.880 you know, with his work crew, it was you know, 1676 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:03.439 those things that just get picked at. But each year, 1677 01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:06.119 coming into the following season, it was like, Okay, this year, 1678 01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:08.560 we're going to do X. You know. One of the years, 1679 01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:11.479 for example, we ripped the front porches off the three 1680 01:28:12.479 --> 01:28:15.000 guest cabins and had a friend to Jeff's who was 1681 01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:17.399 a timber framer, come up and we all helped timber 1682 01:28:17.479 --> 01:28:20.000 frame the fronts of all the guest cabins and put 1683 01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:23.359 new decks on them. You know, we put in a 1684 01:28:23.439 --> 01:28:25.880 new septic tank up there for all the guest cabins 1685 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:27.680 one year, so you know, digging a hole for that 1686 01:28:27.880 --> 01:28:31.439 and putting new new pipe to it. Our good friend 1687 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:33.119 Dan Pierce. Have you ever met Dan? Have you ever 1688 01:28:33.119 --> 01:28:36.359 a fish with Dan? I don't know, Aaron driver. Dan's awesome. 1689 01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:39.319 You got to meet Dan. Dan is He's he is 1690 01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:42.359 a unique character and he is just awesome. But one 1691 01:28:42.439 --> 01:28:44.680 of the years Dan and I were up there, we 1692 01:28:46.239 --> 01:28:48.720 we had to jack up all three of the guest 1693 01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:53.279 cabins because they weren't they were sitting on rocks basically, 1694 01:28:53.399 --> 01:28:55.920 and kind of figure out how to better, you know, 1695 01:28:56.039 --> 01:28:58.880 situate them on the crappy foundations they were on. And 1696 01:28:58.920 --> 01:29:01.720 then we ripped out the bathrooms in all three guest cabins, 1697 01:29:02.479 --> 01:29:04.520 expanded the size of the bathrooms, and put them all 1698 01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:07.119 back together in like ten days before the guests showed up. 1699 01:29:07.199 --> 01:29:09.920 So's it's a fun it's the setup crew thing is 1700 01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:13.039 really fun because the list of things that Jeff always 1701 01:29:13.079 --> 01:29:16.000 wants to do is so enormous that you're like, there's 1702 01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:19.359 no possible way, there's no way this can happen with 1703 01:29:19.600 --> 01:29:21.680 five of us, you know, and you and then you 1704 01:29:21.800 --> 01:29:23.880 get through the you know, the ten days, and you've 1705 01:29:23.920 --> 01:29:26.640 gotten through like two thirds of it, and you're like, 1706 01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:28.720 how did we do that? Part of it is because 1707 01:29:29.359 --> 01:29:34.319 in that part of Northern Coastal BC, it's light until 1708 01:29:34.439 --> 01:29:37.000 I mean it's workably light outside ten o'clock at night, 1709 01:29:37.119 --> 01:29:39.000 you know, and it's light at four in the morning. 1710 01:29:39.039 --> 01:29:41.319 And so that's one part of it is you can 1711 01:29:41.399 --> 01:29:43.600 get a long ass work day, you know, and you 1712 01:29:43.680 --> 01:29:45.800 still get to go fish. Yeah, easily, you know, and 1713 01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:48.359 so you you work for a bunch of hours in 1714 01:29:48.399 --> 01:29:50.560 the morning and then you you know, drive the side 1715 01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:54.520 by sides down and you know, go catch an amazing fish, 1716 01:29:54.720 --> 01:29:56.520 you know, on the Dean with nobody else on the 1717 01:29:56.600 --> 01:29:59.279 river because you you the setup crew and you know, 1718 01:29:59.479 --> 01:30:01.920 your other budies who are there are literally the only 1719 01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:04.039 people on the river, which that never happens when the 1720 01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:06.600 clients are up there, there's always other people around. And 1721 01:30:06.720 --> 01:30:09.039 so you have this you know experience of the Dean 1722 01:30:09.159 --> 01:30:13.199 that very few people get, well generally speaking, very few 1723 01:30:13.239 --> 01:30:17.159 people get. And it's even more unique and special because 1724 01:30:17.159 --> 01:30:18.800 you're kind of up there by yourself and then you 1725 01:30:18.920 --> 01:30:20.640 just roll back up the hill, chuck your waiters on 1726 01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:22.960 the porch, and go back to work until you know, 1727 01:30:23.079 --> 01:30:25.119 the end of the night. And it's so it's been 1728 01:30:25.119 --> 01:30:27.760 a fun experience. It's been a neat way to experience 1729 01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:32.479 that that area. I've caught some very memorable fish up there, 1730 01:30:32.640 --> 01:30:34.479 you know. Really, that's that's the reality. 1731 01:30:35.119 --> 01:30:37.159 That's the population like that time of year. 1732 01:30:37.399 --> 01:30:40.680 Oh, they're everywhere. They've just woken up and they're all 1733 01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:43.319 over the place. Yeah, I've got a lot of great, 1734 01:30:43.640 --> 01:30:46.319 great memories and Luckily, I have never run into any 1735 01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:49.640 of them too too close, you know, down down wall fishing, 1736 01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:51.439 and I haven't run into any of them in the 1737 01:30:51.479 --> 01:30:53.960 woods up there. But they're around. I mean they're they're 1738 01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.880 always around. In fact, you know, almost every morning and 1739 01:30:56.920 --> 01:30:59.079 every evening you can be sitting right at the picnic 1740 01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:02.359 table at the lodge at kim Squid and just look 1741 01:31:02.439 --> 01:31:04.600 down over the edge where the road is coming up 1742 01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:06.640 to the lodge and you can watch them walking through 1743 01:31:06.680 --> 01:31:09.760 the tide water. Every night and every morning it's bear show, 1744 01:31:10.239 --> 01:31:12.640 and so it's pretty cool. They're all over the place, 1745 01:31:12.720 --> 01:31:14.880 and you definitely, you know, you can walk through the 1746 01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:17.520 woods down to a spot you want to fish fish 1747 01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:19.359 for an hour and there was no bear scat on 1748 01:31:19.399 --> 01:31:21.560 the trail, and you come back and there's steaming, big 1749 01:31:21.640 --> 01:31:23.680 piles of it right where you just wear that not 1750 01:31:23.800 --> 01:31:25.760 that long ago. So you know they're always in there. 1751 01:31:25.760 --> 01:31:28.800 I mean, we all definitely you want to you're carrying 1752 01:31:28.840 --> 01:31:31.960 bear spray and you know, pretty much not like holstered, 1753 01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:33.640 but like in your hand as you're walking down to 1754 01:31:33.680 --> 01:31:35.760 the river, it's like you're rodding one hand and the 1755 01:31:35.800 --> 01:31:37.600 bear spray in the other and you're just hoping to 1756 01:31:37.640 --> 01:31:40.039 get to the river and always looking behind you every 1757 01:31:40.079 --> 01:31:41.880 once in a while and not getting too focused just 1758 01:31:41.960 --> 01:31:43.760 down the water you want to you know, you're kind 1759 01:31:43.760 --> 01:31:46.199 of always looking over like okay, and don't see anything cool, 1760 01:31:46.239 --> 01:31:48.520 like I sim our right. A few of the walks 1761 01:31:48.560 --> 01:31:53.000 in there's one particular little hike into a famous fishing 1762 01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:56.279 spot there called Ross Island, and the walk isn't very long, 1763 01:31:56.359 --> 01:31:58.920 but god, it feels spooky and Barry It's it just 1764 01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:00.680 feels like one of those plays is where you're gonna 1765 01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:05.159 get eaten every time every time, Like I, I really 1766 01:32:05.239 --> 01:32:07.640 don't like to do that walk by myself. I always 1767 01:32:07.720 --> 01:32:09.520 like to have a buddy come along. I don't know 1768 01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:15.560 if it makes a different, Yeah, I know exactly, but yeah, 1769 01:32:15.560 --> 01:32:17.159 I think one of the questions you would ask us 1770 01:32:17.199 --> 01:32:19.159 do I travel for steelhead fishing? And I kind of 1771 01:32:19.199 --> 01:32:22.520 said no, but that I kind of have that that's 1772 01:32:22.920 --> 01:32:25.680 sort of been my only real travel for for steelhead fishing, 1773 01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:28.960 which I mean, I say only you know, I've gotten 1774 01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:32.359 pretty lucky, so I've had some really really neat experiences 1775 01:32:32.439 --> 01:32:35.840 up there and just such a beautiful area, especially if 1776 01:32:35.840 --> 01:32:38.960 you if you're so used to you know, a lot 1777 01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:42.479 of the fishing that we do involves being roadside, right, 1778 01:32:42.600 --> 01:32:44.880 you know, driving along to a river, getting out at 1779 01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:47.920 a spot, or or floating down a river. But all 1780 01:32:47.960 --> 01:32:50.079 of those things, almost all the rivers, no matter how 1781 01:32:50.560 --> 01:32:53.359 kind of even reasonably remote, with the exception maybe of 1782 01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:55.920 the Grand Rond, most everything that we do is steel 1783 01:32:55.960 --> 01:32:58.840 at fishermen, you're pretty close to civilization one way or 1784 01:32:58.880 --> 01:33:01.399 the other. The Dean is not like that. I mean, 1785 01:33:01.520 --> 01:33:06.079 And really that whole area of coastal BC, you really 1786 01:33:07.119 --> 01:33:10.840 realize that cars are not the main source of travel. 1787 01:33:10.880 --> 01:33:14.920 It's boats and planes and helicopters. And because they're just 1788 01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:17.760 aren't roads everywhere, and the roads that are in some 1789 01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:21.039 of those places are you know, very very remote. They're 1790 01:33:21.119 --> 01:33:23.159 very dirt, and they go on forever and there's nothing 1791 01:33:23.199 --> 01:33:27.520 out there. So it definitely is a different feel. I 1792 01:33:27.640 --> 01:33:29.600 didn't grow up I mean, I grew up in Western Michigan, 1793 01:33:29.760 --> 01:33:33.359 and Lake Michigan is you know, coastal, so to speak, 1794 01:33:33.720 --> 01:33:35.560 but not in the way that it is in those 1795 01:33:35.600 --> 01:33:39.079 areas in BC. They're very remote and very water focused 1796 01:33:39.239 --> 01:33:42.720 and very you know, boat focused. It's very interesting and 1797 01:33:42.840 --> 01:33:46.319 it's nothing that I've experienced, you know, until sort of 1798 01:33:46.359 --> 01:33:50.960 interacting with with with Hickman's and with Kim Squitt. Is 1799 01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:53.560 just being up in that area and experience, you know, 1800 01:33:53.640 --> 01:33:56.479 boats and plains is the main. Like I think people 1801 01:33:56.520 --> 01:33:59.119 that grew up in Alaska grew up in Alaska probably 1802 01:33:59.399 --> 01:34:01.439 that's just they know that, you know, that's what it 1803 01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:04.079 is out there. It's not like that down here in 1804 01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:06.079 the lower forty eight. You know, we have roads everywhere 1805 01:34:06.359 --> 01:34:06.760 at all. 1806 01:34:07.279 --> 01:34:10.840 So no, it's it's funny if you look at a 1807 01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:15.000 map of the US and just look at highways, the 1808 01:34:15.119 --> 01:34:17.079 East has a you know, one hundred and fifty two 1809 01:34:17.119 --> 01:34:21.880 hundred ye lead on making highways. Yeah, there's so many 1810 01:34:21.960 --> 01:34:28.199 more roads and the difference is probably greater when you 1811 01:34:28.319 --> 01:34:31.359 go from the west to someplace like British Columbia or 1812 01:34:31.439 --> 01:34:36.680 Alaska that there's so few roads. Yeah, and not not 1813 01:34:36.880 --> 01:34:38.880 enough people to have a budget to make them. 1814 01:34:39.880 --> 01:34:42.039 Yeah, I know, no real reason to, you know, I 1815 01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:45.399 mean there's the population centers there are very you know, 1816 01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:49.600 far away from each other. And yeah. So yeah, that's 1817 01:34:49.720 --> 01:34:51.600 that's sort of been my experience, and it's been it's 1818 01:34:51.640 --> 01:34:55.880 been fun. You know, obviously having people like some of 1819 01:34:55.920 --> 01:34:57.880 the young folks like Colby and some of his friends 1820 01:34:57.920 --> 01:35:00.680 start to kind of take over that that setup crew 1821 01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:02.760 thing at kim Squid and make it their own. Has 1822 01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:05.840 been fun and it's it's always a good group of people. 1823 01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:08.479 It's a it really feels it's kind of an opportunity, 1824 01:35:08.520 --> 01:35:10.319 I think for a lot of us to go up 1825 01:35:10.359 --> 01:35:12.399 there and kind of pretend we're you know, well, some 1826 01:35:12.479 --> 01:35:14.359 of us really are contractors, but some of us that 1827 01:35:14.439 --> 01:35:16.439 aren't kind of pretend like we are. You know, you 1828 01:35:16.439 --> 01:35:18.239 need to really put your work pants on and actually 1829 01:35:18.319 --> 01:35:20.560 go to work, you know where a lot of us 1830 01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:23.560 don't do that for a living, and so it scratches 1831 01:35:23.640 --> 01:35:25.319 that age a little bit too well. 1832 01:35:25.319 --> 01:35:27.640 And it's it's funny, that's that's satisfying work to do 1833 01:35:28.319 --> 01:35:31.760 one d you know. That's I can't remember if we 1834 01:35:31.800 --> 01:35:36.159 talked about it before, but one of the things I 1835 01:35:36.319 --> 01:35:41.039 wonder if is driving some of the dissatisfaction in uh 1836 01:35:42.039 --> 01:35:45.159 just the population, is that there are so few people 1837 01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:48.000 that have anything to show at the end of their 1838 01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:52.119 day that they did because so many jobs now are 1839 01:35:52.439 --> 01:35:56.880 you know, computer based or customer service based, and you 1840 01:35:56.960 --> 01:36:00.079 don't it's not the same as making stuff. And for 1841 01:36:00.119 --> 01:36:02.840 the longest time, most of the jobs were about making stuff. 1842 01:36:04.039 --> 01:36:06.760 Well, sure, and you could expand you know, making stuff 1843 01:36:06.920 --> 01:36:10.600 is obviously relevant to you painting or me making leather goods, 1844 01:36:10.640 --> 01:36:13.359 but making stuff is also you know, starting the day 1845 01:36:13.399 --> 01:36:15.119 with a hole in the ground and at the end 1846 01:36:15.119 --> 01:36:16.800 of the day putting stuff back over the top of 1847 01:36:16.880 --> 01:36:18.439 that hole, and knowing that there's now a pipe in 1848 01:36:18.479 --> 01:36:20.279 there to take somebody shit away from their house or 1849 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:21.920 or you know, I mean, that's a crude way of 1850 01:36:21.960 --> 01:36:25.000 looking at it, but any of those things, or stringing 1851 01:36:25.079 --> 01:36:27.239 wires through a bunch of walls so that now a light, 1852 01:36:27.439 --> 01:36:30.760 you know, turns on. You know that that's there's something very, 1853 01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:34.920 very tangible about the results of that work. 1854 01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:38.479 Yeah. No, I paid for college working as a carpenter, 1855 01:36:38.479 --> 01:36:41.279 and then when the Oldest won the Internet launched and 1856 01:36:41.359 --> 01:36:43.600 I was out of business and no time as an illustrator. 1857 01:36:43.960 --> 01:36:45.560 I went back to working for a good friend of 1858 01:36:45.600 --> 01:36:49.399 mine doing carpentry work. And it's actually probably the most 1859 01:36:49.439 --> 01:36:52.560 satisfying work stretch in my life, that stretch right around 1860 01:36:52.640 --> 01:36:55.840 forty when I was old for going back to doing 1861 01:36:56.520 --> 01:37:01.279 concrete work. But I love learning stuff everyday day. My 1862 01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:03.920 friend Paul hoped that I was working for is really 1863 01:37:04.039 --> 01:37:09.479 talented contractor and because of that, he got really nice 1864 01:37:09.560 --> 01:37:12.840 jobs to do and at the same times really physical 1865 01:37:12.880 --> 01:37:16.880 and I've always liked I've always liked physical work. But 1866 01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:19.199 at the end of the day, even if you hadn't 1867 01:37:19.319 --> 01:37:20.560 a job that took two or three weeks, at the 1868 01:37:20.640 --> 01:37:21.920 end of the day, you could see what you've done. 1869 01:37:22.479 --> 01:37:24.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I feel a little bit that. 1870 01:37:24.760 --> 01:37:27.479 I think that's certainly one of the reasons that I 1871 01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:30.319 I am still running the coffee shop, because there is 1872 01:37:30.760 --> 01:37:33.520 there's something like that that you know, at the end 1873 01:37:33.600 --> 01:37:36.399 of each really at the end of each sort of interaction. 1874 01:37:36.560 --> 01:37:39.439 I mean, you're you are creating something that goes out 1875 01:37:39.680 --> 01:37:42.680 the door in somebody's hand that they're going to well 1876 01:37:42.720 --> 01:37:47.199 presumably hopefully enjoy, you know, for some amount of time, 1877 01:37:47.760 --> 01:37:52.960 and that well, yeah, there's always that possibility. We have 1878 01:37:53.039 --> 01:37:55.239 to have to make room for that. But you know 1879 01:37:55.399 --> 01:37:58.159 versus like, yeah, I filled up a spreadsheet and somebody 1880 01:37:58.199 --> 01:38:00.359 else can now look at it and you know, I 1881 01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:02.960 don't know. Yeah, it definitely the thing It. 1882 01:38:02.960 --> 01:38:04.880 Took me the longest time to realize there are people 1883 01:38:05.600 --> 01:38:10.239 who that gives them the satisfaction. Yeah, And the problem 1884 01:38:10.319 --> 01:38:12.399 is when you put somebody like me like my high 1885 01:38:12.399 --> 01:38:14.399 school guidance counselor told me I should go to school 1886 01:38:14.439 --> 01:38:19.760 for accounting. I still can't balance my check book. I'm 1887 01:38:19.920 --> 01:38:23.720 not of that ilk. Yeah, and the people who are 1888 01:38:24.479 --> 01:38:26.319 man would I'd like to have a good one. 1889 01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:31.880 Yeah, yeah, that's not my my I can't do that 1890 01:38:31.960 --> 01:38:35.920 sort of stuff very well either. I need to sort 1891 01:38:35.960 --> 01:38:37.680 of be working a little bit with my hands and 1892 01:38:38.119 --> 01:38:39.880 my brain in a way that you know, it's not 1893 01:38:40.039 --> 01:38:41.520 just staring at things on a screen. 1894 01:38:42.359 --> 01:38:48.680 Yeah, yeah, no to my Uh just for for Rob 1895 01:38:48.880 --> 01:38:56.439 and Dan, my buddy's coop and Magic both were industrial 1896 01:38:56.520 --> 01:39:01.640 designers and are very much hands on makers because they 1897 01:39:01.680 --> 01:39:06.960 were industrial designers before and after computers got involved and 1898 01:39:08.159 --> 01:39:10.920 are very much and actually my brother in law as 1899 01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:15.600 well as my nephew too, there were all industrial designers, 1900 01:39:15.640 --> 01:39:19.159 and my brother in law came up when working for 1901 01:39:19.239 --> 01:39:22.520 Black and Decker. When you wanted to make a hand tool, 1902 01:39:22.680 --> 01:39:25.399 he would make it out of wood so you could feel, 1903 01:39:26.039 --> 01:39:29.079 you know, the shapes, and then I still remember him 1904 01:39:29.119 --> 01:39:33.159 talking to me about a vat of resin with three 1905 01:39:33.279 --> 01:39:36.680 laser beams coming together and hardening your tool in the 1906 01:39:36.760 --> 01:39:39.840 middle of the resin and his went through the development 1907 01:39:39.880 --> 01:39:42.720 of that and that just has to have been fascinating. 1908 01:39:43.199 --> 01:39:47.800 Yeah. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by and really enjoyed talking 1909 01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:50.680 to folks that I've known in my work when I 1910 01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:52.880 was at Takaine, and I still know some of them. 1911 01:39:52.880 --> 01:39:55.680 They still live around town here and are still industrial designers. 1912 01:39:55.760 --> 01:39:58.319 But those were some of the most talented people that 1913 01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:01.239 I've ever met in there ability to kind of bridge 1914 01:40:01.840 --> 01:40:05.199 you know, the aesthetics of you know, painting and drawing 1915 01:40:05.760 --> 01:40:09.479 along with the technical aspects of putting something on paper 1916 01:40:09.640 --> 01:40:14.199 that can be conceived into a three dimensional product without 1917 01:40:14.239 --> 01:40:16.800 a lot of you know, questions being asked. And I 1918 01:40:17.159 --> 01:40:21.199 just find that a really cool. The people whose minds 1919 01:40:21.399 --> 01:40:24.840 work that way are fascinating to me. Yeah, you know, 1920 01:40:25.319 --> 01:40:26.760 and I think I scratch a little bit of that 1921 01:40:26.840 --> 01:40:29.439 when I'm developing products. But what I realize is that, 1922 01:40:29.760 --> 01:40:31.800 I mean, I would probably be way better off if 1923 01:40:31.840 --> 01:40:33.399 I if I knew a little bit more about that, 1924 01:40:33.520 --> 01:40:35.479 because I think, you know, any of my industrial designer 1925 01:40:35.520 --> 01:40:37.520 friends would come over and be like, why are you 1926 01:40:37.680 --> 01:40:39.359 doing it that way? You can do this a lot, 1927 01:40:39.520 --> 01:40:41.439 This will go a lot faster if you just know how. 1928 01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:44.359 To do this, you know, And yeah, so at the 1929 01:40:44.439 --> 01:40:47.000 same time. They probably know that because they went through 1930 01:40:47.039 --> 01:40:48.119 this process. 1931 01:40:48.279 --> 01:40:52.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are always fascinating folks. And 1932 01:40:53.079 --> 01:40:54.159 I'm always in awe. 1933 01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:54.600 I was. 1934 01:40:54.840 --> 01:40:57.800 I was always really in awe of the folks at kind. 1935 01:40:57.880 --> 01:41:00.880 We had a kind of a unique set up here. 1936 01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:04.239 And when we were working when Kaine was here in 1937 01:41:04.479 --> 01:41:07.760 Cod River, we had a gentleman by the name of 1938 01:41:08.359 --> 01:41:11.439 Lawn who he's still here in town. His family owns 1939 01:41:11.640 --> 01:41:14.520 a tie restaurant here and he actually is working now 1940 01:41:14.640 --> 01:41:17.000 for one of the other outfits in town, Alpine C, 1941 01:41:18.319 --> 01:41:22.039 doing pattern and product development. But he was he started 1942 01:41:22.119 --> 01:41:24.319 his life out as a tailor and he got to 1943 01:41:24.399 --> 01:41:26.600 know Rob Kaplan, who is the guy who started to 1944 01:41:26.680 --> 01:41:29.880 Kine when they were both in Hawaii and came on 1945 01:41:30.199 --> 01:41:33.640 early on and helped design all of those products. And 1946 01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:36.520 he was a wizard, that guy. So if one of 1947 01:41:36.560 --> 01:41:41.760 the industrial designers sketched something out on Monday and handed 1948 01:41:41.800 --> 01:41:43.720 it to Lawn, he would have a prototype built for 1949 01:41:43.800 --> 01:41:47.000 us by Tuesday, sewn up. I mean obviously not you know, 1950 01:41:47.159 --> 01:41:49.800 not finished finished product, but all the shapes and all 1951 01:41:49.880 --> 01:41:52.479 the size and the straps, I mean, dead on. He 1952 01:41:52.600 --> 01:41:56.039 was our secret weapon. And between he and the industrial 1953 01:41:56.079 --> 01:42:00.840 design guys that that team was always fast to watch, 1954 01:42:01.399 --> 01:42:05.279 you know, lawns sewing skills and ability to interpret what 1955 01:42:05.439 --> 01:42:08.439 was on the page. And then watching the industrial design 1956 01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:11.680 folks who you know, maybe were new and came into 1957 01:42:12.520 --> 01:42:17.000 that team not knowing what lawns skill set really looked like, 1958 01:42:17.119 --> 01:42:20.119 but then realizing what his skill set was and then 1959 01:42:20.239 --> 01:42:23.479 just melding right into that, and they could produce. The 1960 01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:28.039 speed with which they could come up from a design 1961 01:42:28.159 --> 01:42:33.359 and an idea to a prototype in house was so quick. 1962 01:42:33.479 --> 01:42:36.239 It was always just it always blew my mind. And 1963 01:42:36.840 --> 01:42:38.880 none of the other outfits, you know, at that time, 1964 01:42:38.920 --> 01:42:41.119 we were competing against companies that now have you know, 1965 01:42:41.319 --> 01:42:45.000 subsumed all of those companies Quick, Silver, Roxy, whatever. But 1966 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:47.159 we were competing against all those companies and they didn't 1967 01:42:47.199 --> 01:42:49.239 have that. They didn't have a lawn in house. I 1968 01:42:49.319 --> 01:42:52.279 mean they had, they had graphic designers and industrial designers 1969 01:42:52.319 --> 01:42:54.520 to be sure, but they had to send that stuff 1970 01:42:54.680 --> 01:42:58.520 to their Chinese partner factories, you know, for the for 1971 01:42:58.680 --> 01:43:00.800 the first round of prototype, and we were able to 1972 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:02.640 do it in house down in our you know, in 1973 01:43:02.760 --> 01:43:05.880 our facility here in town, and it was just always fascinating. 1974 01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:09.600 I think, I think maybe I realized that some of 1975 01:43:09.720 --> 01:43:13.560 that experience of working closely with with Law and and 1976 01:43:13.680 --> 01:43:17.279 seeing what he could do probably really has informed a 1977 01:43:17.359 --> 01:43:19.960 bit of my interest in in the leather goods and 1978 01:43:20.000 --> 01:43:22.960 all that, you know, with the the intervening years in there. 1979 01:43:23.399 --> 01:43:25.479 But once I started with the leather goods, I think 1980 01:43:25.520 --> 01:43:28.479 I remember somewhere deep in there, I was remembering how 1981 01:43:28.600 --> 01:43:31.800 cool I thought it was to watch that process and 1982 01:43:32.319 --> 01:43:34.760 be able to take things from an idea to a 1983 01:43:34.840 --> 01:43:38.159 tangible product. And so maybe maybe some of that experience 1984 01:43:38.279 --> 01:43:41.720 stuck with me and has has informed or or helped 1985 01:43:41.760 --> 01:43:46.640 to you know, dig that that process in a little deeper. 1986 01:43:47.680 --> 01:43:50.760 Yeah. It's It's funny how as you get older, Uh, 1987 01:43:52.159 --> 01:43:54.319 you find yourself influenced by all the things you've done 1988 01:43:54.319 --> 01:43:54.760 in your life. 1989 01:43:55.880 --> 01:43:57.039 Yeah, you know. 1990 01:43:57.239 --> 01:44:02.680 And and some when I was printing a woodcut at 1991 01:44:03.720 --> 01:44:06.479 p n c A with some grad students and they 1992 01:44:06.520 --> 01:44:09.880 were very complimentary about my carving and asked me how 1993 01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:11.199 I've been doing it, and I said, well, this is 1994 01:44:11.239 --> 01:44:13.600 my second print. They said, how'd you learn how to 1995 01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:17.079 do this? I'm like, I've had jobs since I was 1996 01:44:17.279 --> 01:44:21.279 like eight, you know, I've I've had all kinds of 1997 01:44:21.319 --> 01:44:25.000 different jobs. And probably a third of them come into 1998 01:44:25.479 --> 01:44:28.960 what you do with woodcut, from knowing how to sharpen 1999 01:44:29.000 --> 01:44:31.560 a gouge to knowing how to break it image down 2000 01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:35.119 into shapes and all the different things I've done. And 2001 01:44:35.239 --> 01:44:37.640 that's what that, to me is the most fascinating thing 2002 01:44:37.720 --> 01:44:41.880 now is how do I how do I use all 2003 01:44:41.960 --> 01:44:43.920 the different things I like to make something? 2004 01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:50.960 Yeah, speaking of how is the meta salmon project thing 2005 01:44:51.079 --> 01:44:51.640 coming along? 2006 01:44:54.399 --> 01:44:59.520 I just finally got the colored salmon put on the website. 2007 01:45:01.119 --> 01:45:04.560 I am writing letters in the next her letters emails 2008 01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:08.800 in the next week or so to two locations that 2009 01:45:09.039 --> 01:45:12.119 actually you're the I'll ask you about this after we 2010 01:45:12.319 --> 01:45:18.760 finished recording, because you probably know to two possible locations 2011 01:45:19.119 --> 01:45:24.279 to do murals next year, which next year starts next week. 2012 01:45:24.920 --> 01:45:26.239 But hopefully I'm hoping that. 2013 01:45:26.640 --> 01:45:29.960 I'm hoping that by May I have two locations to 2014 01:45:31.119 --> 01:45:32.279 to come out and put murals up. 2015 01:45:32.800 --> 01:45:34.399 Okay, and then. 2016 01:45:35.800 --> 01:45:38.159 Combination of like things that I don't know, how do 2017 01:45:38.319 --> 01:45:41.520 I get sponsors to do, because I mean, I've got 2018 01:45:41.600 --> 01:45:43.359 I can't do it by myself. I got to have 2019 01:45:43.640 --> 01:45:47.199 people helping me on these murals. Yeah, and so I'm 2020 01:45:47.239 --> 01:45:49.640 gonna be looking for some corporate sponsors, and I think 2021 01:45:49.680 --> 01:45:53.640 there's I think I have enough contacts now too, at 2022 01:45:53.720 --> 01:45:55.600 least have an idea of who to reach out to. 2023 01:45:57.279 --> 01:46:01.039 And so the goal is five or six murals up 2024 01:46:01.079 --> 01:46:02.800 and down the Columbia by the end of next year, 2025 01:46:03.079 --> 01:46:05.800 not next year, at the end of twenty seven. If 2026 01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:07.279 I could do two or three this year and then 2027 01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:10.840 two or three next year and then have enough foot 2028 01:46:10.880 --> 01:46:13.800 traffic to help nudge the argument. 2029 01:46:14.319 --> 01:46:16.880 Yeah, and so are you. Well we can talk about 2030 01:46:16.880 --> 01:46:19.199 this offline later. But that's good. I'm glad to hear 2031 01:46:19.239 --> 01:46:20.960 that the project is still moving. 2032 01:46:21.479 --> 01:46:23.680 Oh no, it's it's been beating my head on the 2033 01:46:23.720 --> 01:46:26.239 wall with everything else in life the last few years. 2034 01:46:26.319 --> 01:46:29.359 But you know, I'm stubborn. 2035 01:46:30.239 --> 01:46:33.000 You do you intend to choose the look and feel 2036 01:46:33.039 --> 01:46:35.319 of each of the murals once you kind of get 2037 01:46:35.359 --> 01:46:38.039 the place identified, or do you have the designs in 2038 01:46:38.159 --> 01:46:40.960 your brain already for what each of them might look at? 2039 01:46:41.000 --> 01:46:46.479 But it's I've got a video up that I can 2040 01:46:46.680 --> 01:46:50.800 show you that my son put together for me, and 2041 01:46:51.039 --> 01:46:53.159 the picture. The thing about it is we can take 2042 01:46:53.199 --> 01:46:55.960 that Sam and the idea is you can print that 2043 01:46:56.319 --> 01:47:00.680 on gompy paper, which is a really rugged tissue and 2044 01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:04.640 then put it up with wheat paste. So the thing 2045 01:47:04.720 --> 01:47:07.840 that will change is the size of the text that 2046 01:47:08.159 --> 01:47:12.199 Matthew Letzelter at PNCA is going to adjust that for me. 2047 01:47:12.319 --> 01:47:15.560 So if I have a wall that, say twelve feet wide, 2048 01:47:15.680 --> 01:47:18.159 I can print the text out ten feet wide and 2049 01:47:18.279 --> 01:47:21.159 then put use enough salmon to fill it up. But 2050 01:47:21.479 --> 01:47:24.840 I find one that's twenty feet wide, We'll print the 2051 01:47:24.960 --> 01:47:28.479 text eighteen feet wide and just print more salmon. So 2052 01:47:28.640 --> 01:47:31.479 we can just we can enlarge and contract. If we 2053 01:47:31.520 --> 01:47:33.760 have a place that's just big enough for like three fish, 2054 01:47:34.279 --> 01:47:38.199 I can do that. To me that the thing would 2055 01:47:38.239 --> 01:47:46.279 be to have enough viewing distance that to intrigue people 2056 01:47:46.399 --> 01:47:50.319 by it. I think the headline the text of all 2057 01:47:50.359 --> 01:47:57.439 the damn names, and all the damn names, and our 2058 01:47:57.520 --> 01:48:01.600 rivers are paved with the damns of our good intentions. 2059 01:48:06.119 --> 01:48:08.640 That's not the right that I watched the quote because 2060 01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:14.159 I've said it too many times, But I think that. 2061 01:48:14.520 --> 01:48:16.720 And then to get up close, Greg Fitz is going 2062 01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:19.239 to write me a information piece to go with it, 2063 01:48:20.319 --> 01:48:23.399 to lay out the argument for removing the stake river dams. 2064 01:48:23.960 --> 01:48:29.760 So I think between them it should be interesting. I've 2065 01:48:29.880 --> 01:48:35.840 I've never been in a situation to do something that 2066 01:48:36.159 --> 01:48:38.159 public facing, and it'll be a good. 2067 01:48:38.159 --> 01:48:42.239 Challenge, right. It's interesting to it's it's something in the 2068 01:48:43.239 --> 01:48:46.600 at the intersection of advocacy and public art, and so 2069 01:48:47.159 --> 01:48:51.199 it's interesting to me thinking how do you find the 2070 01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:54.319 people that want to help you make it become a 2071 01:48:54.359 --> 01:48:57.880 tangible thing? You know, is it is it arts organizations? 2072 01:48:58.199 --> 01:49:02.239 Is it uh? You know, people the own physical infrastructure 2073 01:49:02.479 --> 01:49:06.560 where a mirural can be housed, or you know, and 2074 01:49:07.079 --> 01:49:09.840 or is it uh? And then is it advocacy groups 2075 01:49:10.399 --> 01:49:15.479 in the world of you know, sam in an ecosystem advocacy, 2076 01:49:15.880 --> 01:49:18.399 It feels like it's all three of those. It is. 2077 01:49:18.479 --> 01:49:21.000 It's it's trying to interesting trying to tie resources from 2078 01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:24.119 all of them together. Yeah, And it's it's funny that 2079 01:49:24.359 --> 01:49:30.199 at one point I felt I interactive with people so much. 2080 01:49:30.239 --> 01:49:33.520 When I was a freinance illustrator pre internet days, you 2081 01:49:33.680 --> 01:49:36.800 had to go meet people constantly, and so to go 2082 01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:40.520 in and pitch I was pretty comfortable with. And for 2083 01:49:40.600 --> 01:49:45.039 the last twenty five years, I when I'm showing my work, 2084 01:49:45.079 --> 01:49:48.000 I mostly sit and read and hope people leave me 2085 01:49:48.039 --> 01:49:50.960 alone and just buy a painting and go away. So 2086 01:49:51.520 --> 01:49:54.359 so it's going to be interesting, uh, to get out 2087 01:49:54.399 --> 01:49:56.039 of my own way and get busy. 2088 01:49:57.039 --> 01:49:59.479 Well, one thing I can say from from having a 2089 01:49:59.520 --> 01:50:04.960 couple late night around the lights and dinner on the 2090 01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:08.760 dishoots with you is I can definitely say that your 2091 01:50:09.039 --> 01:50:18.640 description of the importance of salmon was unique and and 2092 01:50:18.880 --> 01:50:21.760 moving to me. Even though I'm immersed in that here 2093 01:50:21.840 --> 01:50:24.920 and I live with it in this area and understand it, 2094 01:50:25.840 --> 01:50:29.560 the way that you describe the importance of that animal, 2095 01:50:29.680 --> 01:50:33.960 that spirit, that that resource was enough to make me 2096 01:50:34.199 --> 01:50:36.000 kind of shake my head a little bit and think 2097 01:50:36.079 --> 01:50:39.239 that I had heard it explained to me differently than 2098 01:50:39.279 --> 01:50:41.680 I had in a long time. So I can't describe 2099 01:50:41.720 --> 01:50:44.119 to you exactly what you're wording was, but if you 2100 01:50:44.319 --> 01:50:47.159 can think about the way you described it, or that 2101 01:50:47.239 --> 01:50:50.479 you definitely you know you typically describe it, I would 2102 01:50:50.520 --> 01:50:53.640 say you're onto something. I guess I don't know if 2103 01:50:53.640 --> 01:50:55.560 I'm making the point I'm trying to make, is the 2104 01:50:55.680 --> 01:51:00.239 way you described it was it made me even kind 2105 01:51:00.279 --> 01:51:03.399 of sit up a little bit. And that's interesting because 2106 01:51:03.800 --> 01:51:06.760 I am immersed in that world of sort of advocacy 2107 01:51:06.800 --> 01:51:09.880 in the salmon in our area, and even some of 2108 01:51:10.199 --> 01:51:13.479 the ways that you explained it really have stuck stuck 2109 01:51:13.560 --> 01:51:16.000 with me since those days on the is shootes. So 2110 01:51:16.439 --> 01:51:19.680 just know that you you have some there's some resonance 2111 01:51:19.760 --> 01:51:22.359 in the way that you have described this, and so 2112 01:51:22.439 --> 01:51:24.199 if you can remember what that is, you should write 2113 01:51:24.199 --> 01:51:26.479 that down and bottle it because it will be it 2114 01:51:26.520 --> 01:51:29.439 will hopefully be resonant with with folks that can help 2115 01:51:29.520 --> 01:51:32.640 you put this project into motion. If that makes any sense. 2116 01:51:32.800 --> 01:51:37.359 Yeah, because that's that's what it's funny. I had made 2117 01:51:37.720 --> 01:51:41.079 just an amazing contact my buddy Jane that I'm printing with. 2118 01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:46.000 Her neighbor just retired from I think the Interior Department, 2119 01:51:46.560 --> 01:51:50.119 and she's worked the Columbia Watershed for like the last 2120 01:51:50.159 --> 01:51:55.199 twenty years. And she and Jane were just visiting one 2121 01:51:55.279 --> 01:51:58.119 day out in their yard and ess she's printingly and 2122 01:51:58.119 --> 01:52:00.479 then she told me what she told me about salmon, 2123 01:52:00.560 --> 01:52:02.199 and the woman lit up and said, oh, I have 2124 01:52:02.279 --> 01:52:04.800 to meet this guy. And so we had the three 2125 01:52:04.840 --> 01:52:08.800 of us had breakfast, and she gave me contacts with 2126 01:52:08.920 --> 01:52:14.800 several of the tribes, several fisheries managers. And so then 2127 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:19.239 that's why, right when life took a hard U turned south. 2128 01:52:19.920 --> 01:52:22.119 And uh so that's all what I'm all trying to 2129 01:52:22.159 --> 01:52:27.000 get everything back on on pace to to get things 2130 01:52:27.039 --> 01:52:28.920 happening this year, next year, hurt next year in the 2131 01:52:28.960 --> 01:52:29.439 following year. 2132 01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:31.880 So yeah, pretty cool. 2133 01:52:32.720 --> 01:52:34.680 Well I look forward to spending more time on the 2134 01:52:34.760 --> 01:52:35.680 river this year man. 2135 01:52:36.039 --> 01:52:39.760 Yeah, I definitely yeah next year. As I mentioned before, 2136 01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:42.119 I definitely love to get a seat in whatever your 2137 01:52:42.199 --> 01:52:44.680 trip is with with Barrett this year. If you're when 2138 01:52:44.720 --> 01:52:48.119 you start figuring out, you know, you talked about trying 2139 01:52:48.199 --> 01:52:49.720 to do a couple of boats. I would love to 2140 01:52:49.960 --> 01:52:51.399 jump on so that I can hang out with you 2141 01:52:51.479 --> 01:52:54.680 some more and in person and you know, swap stories 2142 01:52:54.760 --> 01:52:55.800 and and fish. 2143 01:52:56.199 --> 01:52:58.239 So no, I think we're going to stretch this year. 2144 01:52:58.239 --> 01:53:00.359 We'll get Curtis and and Barrett both and and uh 2145 01:53:01.279 --> 01:53:02.119 we should have a blast. 2146 01:53:02.840 --> 01:53:05.760 Yeah. Well then we'll have Colby and probably maybe maybe 2147 01:53:05.800 --> 01:53:08.520 John Helliberg cooking in the other camp so or both, 2148 01:53:08.640 --> 01:53:11.199 you know, so yeah, good time. It would be really fun. 2149 01:53:11.399 --> 01:53:13.119 So yeah, I look forward. I look forward to it. 2150 01:53:13.880 --> 01:53:15.640 Well, hey, man, thanks for taking the time, and I 2151 01:53:15.680 --> 01:53:16.720 hope you had a great holiday. 2152 01:53:17.039 --> 01:53:19.560 Yeah, I'm glad to have the conversation with you. So 2153 01:53:19.720 --> 01:53:22.039 it was really fun to continue some of the conversations 2154 01:53:22.079 --> 01:53:24.439 that we had. You know out on the river and 2155 01:53:24.680 --> 01:53:28.000 and hopefully folks will find this useful to get a 2156 01:53:28.039 --> 01:53:29.279 little more insight and info. 2157 01:53:29.439 --> 01:53:32.600 And I can't wait to hear going through Hood River 2158 01:53:32.640 --> 01:53:34.520 and they want an outstanding cup of coffee. 2159 01:53:35.279 --> 01:53:37.840 How do they find you, Dog Dog River Coffee. We're 2160 01:53:37.880 --> 01:53:40.279 located at four eleven Oak Street, right here on the 2161 01:53:40.359 --> 01:53:44.479 main drag downtown Hood River. So yeah, yeah, come in 2162 01:53:44.560 --> 01:53:46.039 and see me, you know. And if you're coming through 2163 01:53:46.119 --> 01:53:48.680 to go fishing, if you need information, come find me. 2164 01:53:49.359 --> 01:53:51.319 I'll give you some information. I don't know if I 2165 01:53:51.359 --> 01:53:55.119 can give you good information, but i'll try. All right, Well, 2166 01:53:55.199 --> 01:53:56.800 take it easy out there on the East Coast, and 2167 01:53:57.119 --> 01:53:59.079 we look forward to seeing you back out here on 2168 01:53:59.119 --> 01:53:59.840 the West coast soon. 2169 01:53:59.800 --> 01:54:04.840 Or up alrighty bed the River Ramblers production of Swingfly. 2170 01:54:05.399 --> 01:54:07.439 Visit swing of fly dot com for the best swung 2171 01:54:07.520 --> 01:54:10.239 fly and spacecasting content on the web and in print.