Speaker 1: Welcome to Jewish History Uncensored with Mark Shapiro. This is
Speaker 1: season sixteen, episode thirty eight.
Speaker 2: The Hey, let me say before we start that I
Speaker 2: watched Rabbi Weider his last of his five classes, and
Speaker 2: I think that our Monday night classes inspired that because
Speaker 2: I kept quoting him, and I think that's when I think. So,
Speaker 2: that's when Mike Kellman said we should have him. And
Speaker 2: I have to say, it's a tour de force what
Speaker 2: he did five classes. There's nothing like it online, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: As I told him after already the first class, I said,
Speaker 3: I'm never laying again because you see the expertise. That
Speaker 3: be a really excellent Paul Corey.
Speaker 1: Wow, what you got to know?
Speaker 2: So I think I think at least that we inspired
Speaker 2: it here. If we didn't, but but I think we did,
Speaker 2: so that's great. Okay, everyone, just a couple of things.
Speaker 2: So we got great stuff. As always, I just want
Speaker 2: to correct something I spent with Michelle m Roth. It
Speaker 2: was the little he was Rabbi and Schernovitz. It was
Speaker 2: in love love that. Uh. He had to withdraw if
Speaker 2: his miss RACKI involvement if he wanted it. I mentioned
Speaker 2: Ibn t Bone here's a famous guide for the perplexus translation.
Speaker 2: And I said that some words he invented. If you
Speaker 2: look in the back, it's he has parish, Miami, loved zarrot.
Speaker 2: And just to give you a couple of words that
Speaker 2: it been t Bone invented. You might be spread see
Speaker 2: your as meaning like imagination. But also marcause we all
Speaker 2: know the word marcause center that was that's that's I
Speaker 2: been t Bone. You we have the root rache commons,
Speaker 2: clubs are you and uh, that's one of the words
Speaker 2: that he invented, so you can check that out. Let
Speaker 2: me put this over here. Okay, someone uh, I think
Speaker 2: she walls his name wrote me an email. We have
Speaker 2: lots of people listening in the old classes and he
Speaker 2: wants to know. You know, we we those who were
Speaker 2: with us in the early classes. We did a lot
Speaker 2: on tiktook and all sorts of interesting stuff. Wea, I
Speaker 2: think it's interesting. I just think it's interesting. I know
Speaker 2: Suzanna thinks it's interesting and looking at it. But he
Speaker 2: wants to know, first of all, well what is this?
Speaker 2: Isn't this just for the star name? And do utganize
Speaker 2: him really care? And he says, does God really care.
Speaker 2: I said, well, first of all, I wasn'ta do is
Speaker 2: God carry God knows what we're doing. But if it's
Speaker 2: you're supposed to pronounce it properly. If I tell you
Speaker 2: that President Beaton, you know who I'm referring to what
Speaker 2: I'm mispronouncing his name. But then he said, but he's
Speaker 2: been yeshiva. Do any organizing really care about this anymore?
Speaker 2: And the truth is he's probably right. You most find
Speaker 2: this in the Starduk world, but not exclusively. I mean
Speaker 2: Revoko Kamenetsky felt it important by the historically you have,
Speaker 2: you have your Veka venden shopped I sofa, and you
Speaker 2: have the Gro the villain ne Go. So of course
Speaker 2: this has been important in the Ashkenazic world. And I
Speaker 2: want to show you people something now which I didn't
Speaker 2: share with him, but i'll I just want to call
Speaker 2: your attention to it. There's a book called aliol Yahu
Speaker 2: which was written about I think it was published in
Speaker 2: the eighteen fifties by Shush eleven. It's a hagiography of
Speaker 2: the Gro the Villainago, and this is the new edition.
Speaker 2: It's on page ninety six. I want you to look
Speaker 2: in the note here Note seventy five. It says as
Speaker 2: follows that the the dav based in the Rabbi of
Speaker 2: the city of ky Down in Lithuania told me that
Speaker 2: when the Villa Nego was in his youth, he came
Speaker 2: to kay Done and he was there making sure that
Speaker 2: the children will learn and the tamatoa, and especially that
Speaker 2: they learn the difference between mila ale and Mila rah.
Speaker 2: That what we spoke about, that is words that the
Speaker 2: syllable is the penultimate, the second to the end versus
Speaker 2: the the end, so that they can pronounce it properly.
Speaker 2: And then he said his follows, and let's see if
Speaker 2: anyone can figure out what this means and type it
Speaker 2: in in the chat. If you do know uvashol kamar.
Speaker 2: And jokingly, the gross said, kila to some lo amrue
Speaker 2: de var ms malan. The gross says, based upon what
Speaker 2: you know how the kids sound, lo amrue davar emmet
Speaker 2: emettlam lo i'm rudvar ms. What does he mean? Anyone
Speaker 2: know when he says that the children lo amrue davara
Speaker 2: what the gross means here? Any anyone have an idea?
Speaker 2: If not, I'll explain it to you. What he means,
Speaker 2: it's the it's the villainigones joking. Lo He says about
Speaker 2: these children, low amrud ms. It's a big Oh. Let
Speaker 2: me see here, got to see the chat here, No, no, no,
Speaker 2: I got it. Okay. What he means is as follows. Uh. Oh,
Speaker 2: so one more person sent it in. Let's see, uh no, uh.
Speaker 2: What it means is as follows. They were pronouncing the
Speaker 2: word ms, but it's supposed to be pronounced ms or
Speaker 2: in spartak M but ms. So when he says lo
Speaker 2: amru devar ms lilm, they never spoke truth. He's playing
Speaker 2: on that expression that appears to off the rms because
Speaker 2: they never said ms. They only said ms. So that
Speaker 2: was the film. And remember it. She just said before
Speaker 2: that they have to learn the difference in ra and
Speaker 2: he joked and said, until now, they've never said the
Speaker 2: vr ms or MS. I don't know how he pronounced
Speaker 2: it in their life, because they always they would say ms.
Speaker 2: They would say, they would always get the words wrong.
Speaker 2: So that's the first thing I want to show you head.
Speaker 2: That was a schmoos homo to turn that off to.
Speaker 2: So you're as can Isaac Roscha Yeshivas. Incidentally, I found. Also,
Speaker 2: the Beni Schai says the same. We spoke about the gra,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to bring you some stuff about the
Speaker 2: girls in a future class. But the Beni Schai also
Speaker 2: uses the word I found hazot. I was hazot. He
Speaker 2: has a whole thing about this, and so it's not
Speaker 2: just the gra. Okay, someone emailed me about the dancing,
Speaker 2: the Young Israel dancing, So I don't want to get
Speaker 2: too much into this, but let me show you something else.
Speaker 2: I just googled it, and what comes up from nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty four October an article from the JTA the Young
Speaker 2: Israel Bronx Gardens was having their annual dance. But then,
Speaker 2: and of course we all know this is common, this
Speaker 2: is popular. But then as I'm googling looking around, I
Speaker 2: come across an article by the indefatigable zev Ellith a
Speaker 2: touchy subject, a short history of the rise and fall
Speaker 2: of Orthodox social dancing. So you can read all you
Speaker 2: want on it. But he pointed out something I didn't know,
Speaker 2: which is fascinating. If you recall we get rid of this.
Speaker 2: We spoke about the Masmid, which is the Yeshiva college yearbook.
Speaker 2: So here we have the masmid from nineteen thirty six,
Speaker 2: and if you look at it, you see all sorts
Speaker 2: of great stuff. Here, by the way, is the tennis
Speaker 2: team at Yeshiva College in nineteen thirty six. If you
Speaker 2: look at the pictures, you see the guys didn't wear
Speaker 2: yamakas when you were outside. It's sort of like this
Speaker 2: German yucky idea that only have to wear it inside,
Speaker 2: because there's plenty of pictures where they don't have it.
Speaker 2: Oh and he has a picture of mo Fiorstein for
Speaker 2: those people from Boston who I mentioned before, he was
Speaker 2: in that graduating class. But what zev Elif called attention
Speaker 2: to is a couple of pages before on this on
Speaker 2: Yeshiva College yearbook talks about how the junior year. Take
Speaker 2: a look at this, the junior class. Last year in
Speaker 2: the class had the first social affair, a dance at
Speaker 2: the Peter Stuyvesant Hotel. What I can assure you of,
Speaker 2: without any fear of being contradicting, is the Yeshiva College
Speaker 2: now is not having dances and not putting in the yearbook,
Speaker 2: and it never would be allowed. But in nineteen thirty six,
Speaker 2: there you go. Thank you zev Lf for taking us
Speaker 2: down memory lage. One more thing I want to share
Speaker 2: with you, guys. I was reading, I was reading. This
Speaker 2: book just came out because we're talking a lot about
Speaker 2: today about revma Zoo's in the next few weeks, Covitz
Speaker 2: Mamari two volumes of articles, all sorts of great stuff
Speaker 2: and volume let's see it's in volume one, page three
Speaker 2: eighty six. He says he gets back to the idea
Speaker 2: of the rambam that we were speaking about against anthropomorphisms,
Speaker 2: and he quotes from a book by one of the
Speaker 2: most strange and interesting people we've had. He's got to
Speaker 2: show you this picture. Some of you will know this person. There.
Speaker 2: He is Rafaul halpern was a rabbi. He grew up.
Speaker 2: He was very close to the has even wrote a
Speaker 2: book about the Hash and his relationship. But he became
Speaker 2: a wrestler, like a fake wrestler. You can see here's
Speaker 2: a picture of him. You see in his he used
Speaker 2: to wear a star of David. You can even see
Speaker 2: a video of him. Let's see hold on a second
Speaker 2: of him wrestling. He was a firm guy. Here he
Speaker 2: is Rafaul Helper And again after he retired from wrestling,
Speaker 2: he had a couple of businesses, and he wrote a
Speaker 2: number of story including a safer on a very like
Speaker 2: three volumes. I think on Rashi every because he was
Speaker 2: descended from Rashi. Everything you wanted about Rashi, and he
Speaker 2: wrote all sorts of good stuff, so you can look
Speaker 2: him up later. Well, oh, before we go further, I
Speaker 2: want to show you this is uh. Well, I'll get
Speaker 2: back to him in a second day after I do.
Speaker 2: Rafael Helper so he wrote a Peyrish on Lemish, and
Speaker 2: he wrote a Pairish. And the people who are older
Speaker 2: probably remember Rafael Hopper, and he gave a lot of pride.
Speaker 2: He was mister Israel, the Russell, the wrestling rabbi, all
Speaker 2: these sorts of things. But he wrote a Pyriish called
Speaker 2: d Yukimbatra, and then volume one, page twenty six, he asks.
Speaker 2: He writes that he speaks about the Kida skitstock. It
Speaker 2: says there's a mid rush, that the angels their tears
Speaker 2: fell into the eyes of Getzuck. So he asked the question, now, well,
Speaker 2: how is that possible? Angels? Uh don't have tears? Uh?
Speaker 2: There do angels have tears? And Rabbi Mazous in his
Speaker 2: commentary and his article says about this. He he calls
Speaker 2: them Mahacham Helper and with Zau. But then he says
Speaker 2: to him, I don't get the question. And if angels
Speaker 2: had tears, they still would be falling in it's eyes
Speaker 2: at the angels far up. And he goes off. He goes,
Speaker 2: how would the angel how would the tears have come
Speaker 2: from all the way up in heaven? And and then
Speaker 2: he says, he says, if Helper, Rabbi Helper would actually
Speaker 2: study made Luma and really understand and respect the Rumbam,
Speaker 2: he wouldn't have any of these problems because he'd understand
Speaker 2: that all these things about these are all Marshalomlisa, that
Speaker 2: the sages are not speaking literally when they say that
Speaker 2: they just have tears where the tears falling. You wouldn't
Speaker 2: have these questions, he says, if you weren't a little
Speaker 2: round bomb. You know that all these anthropomorphisms that don't
Speaker 2: just refer to God, they refer to the angels. You
Speaker 2: don't ask questions like this because you missed the whole point.
Speaker 2: And that's that's what he says about Helper. You know,
Speaker 2: there's another from an Orthodox family strong man. Any want
Speaker 2: to ever hear of this guy? Is this a Breidbart
Speaker 2: He was known as the strongest man in the world.
Speaker 2: He comes from an Orthodox family. They even made a
Speaker 2: movie about him in Vincible in two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: You can read all about him in many places. I'm
Speaker 2: evo he I'm gonna sell you something else. Now you
Speaker 2: know he was buried. He and here's his tombstone as
Speaker 2: you can see it that well. He was buried in
Speaker 2: the Adasistral Cemetery in Berlin. I've been going to Berlin
Speaker 2: before COVID all the time since nineteen ninety. The first
Speaker 2: time I was there in nineteen ninety when it was
Speaker 2: still East Germany. I even knocked down a piece of
Speaker 2: the wall, which if I was home, i'd show you.
Speaker 2: But he's from the Audas community, the Orthodox. It's really
Speaker 2: hold the summer c Huffman. In fact, in the cemetery,
Speaker 2: Huffman's bared Avvermelio Kaplins buried. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: you read it, it says it says our bank Covodemo
Speaker 2: big vu ratav Oh. No, you know he had all
Speaker 2: this string. So that's this Breitbart probably Andrew Breitbart from
Speaker 2: Breitbart News. He was adopted. He wasn't Jewish, although he's
Speaker 2: adopted by Jewish parents. They maybe they converted him. I
Speaker 2: don't never heard they converted for Orthodox, but maybe he's descended.
Speaker 2: And the last thing I want to show you before
Speaker 2: we begin, because I forgot to mention, is about the dancing.
Speaker 2: Is this is Rabbi Solomon Maimo, who was a rabbi
Speaker 2: in Seattle. He just died like last year and I
Speaker 2: think age one hundred. He's the first the Sarda k
Speaker 2: musmach as far as I know, from Yeshiva College going
Speaker 2: back to the early forties, I believe. And he gave
Speaker 2: it with sons, you know, a Reiti type education. Didn't
Speaker 2: even send them to Yu to Mta, sent them to
Speaker 2: the Kardi schools. But he gave an interview shortly before
Speaker 2: he died the secret to a successful Sparta community, and
Speaker 2: he says as follows, and he said it. He didn't
Speaker 2: just do it, he actually spoke about it. I'll just
Speaker 2: read it to you. Members of Seattle's starta community occasionally
Speaker 2: reflect on a time when synagogues held dances for the youth,
Speaker 2: something taboo today, whereby my mon wasn't sure that co
Speaker 2: ed programming was right, but he knew it was what
Speaker 2: he had to do to get the kids coming back.
Speaker 2: He offered a story about a Sukkote event where he
Speaker 2: ordered the youth to go to a dance in the
Speaker 2: social hall. I'm going to lock it and nobody gets
Speaker 2: out until they have a date, he recalled. That's what happened.
Speaker 2: They came for Sukkote, they got a date, they had
Speaker 2: a dance afterwards, and we served them good stuff. It's
Speaker 2: a powerful example the rabbi meeting the community where it
Speaker 2: was and seeking a creative solution to the never ending
Speaker 2: problem of Jewish dating. A young kipper. I repented, he said,
Speaker 2: I told God, I'm wrong, but you put me in
Speaker 2: charge here, and I say I have to do wrong
Speaker 2: to get right. It's going to bring them to marry
Speaker 2: each other. And that's what they did. So listen. I'm
Speaker 2: not again, I'm not the posting or anything, but it's
Speaker 2: it's easy to sit where we are in a very
Speaker 2: different world and look at things. But that's uh, that's
Speaker 2: what he did instantly. Some have when I gave back
Speaker 2: Posish brit bright part, I say I wrote something down.
Speaker 2: He came in nineteen twenty three on an American tour,
Speaker 2: and he was called Superman of the Ages, and some
Speaker 2: think that he inspired the Jewish people who created Superman.
Speaker 2: He inspired him. Okay, everyone, let us now pick up.
Speaker 2: We are in the safe air Simon age two ninety three,
Speaker 2: and I need to tell you, well, it'll give you
Speaker 2: a little back around to what we're doing now, because
Speaker 2: the title of the letter is well, first of all,
Speaker 2: it's defaut Jahad, the persecution of the Jahad movement, and
Speaker 2: then the ukme butsuki, my dear Rishon Rashoni who quote
Speaker 2: biblical verses inaccurately. But first, what is yahad? Yahad ravvadio?
Speaker 2: Safe passes away in twenty thirteen and shortly after that
Speaker 2: about a little more than a year to being in
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen years of new elections for the Israeli Knesset.
Speaker 2: Ariy a Derry who was corrupt, probably still is corrupt.
Speaker 2: He went to jail. When he went to jail, l
Speaker 2: e Yeshai. He was really a simple person. He's not
Speaker 2: atoma haak. He's not a rabbi like Darry in the army,
Speaker 2: but a very honest, low key sort of person. He
Speaker 2: ran shas with and there never was a hint of
Speaker 2: scandal with him and Shas has had a problem. They've
Speaker 2: had a lot of people serving time. But when Rydarry
Speaker 2: gets out whatever it is, Revivdi was convinced that he
Speaker 2: did his time okay to allow him back in to
Speaker 2: run the show, and he was then exiled as it were,
Speaker 2: lay Shy because he couldn't work with R. E. Darry.
Speaker 2: So when the Kinnissan elections were going to be in
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, Yeshai came up with an idea plan that
Speaker 2: he would start a new party. The question was who's
Speaker 2: the I guess the who's carrying on the message of
Speaker 2: audio Safe? Is it the Shots party which is now
Speaker 2: basically have run by Shann Cohen and David yo Safe
Speaker 2: and which really became completely Harry d They thought as
Speaker 2: I mentioned before of show, mon Cohen said, all sorts
Speaker 2: of crazy things. He called the people where keep us
Speaker 2: through guz as as a mulch he referred to. He said,
Speaker 2: we don't need an army, all we need is to
Speaker 2: feel I mean all sorts of unbelievable stuff. Well, Eli
Speaker 2: Yishai wants to be back in Kanesse, so he comes
Speaker 2: up with the idea that he's going to create a coalition,
Speaker 2: a coalition of people Swardin who are fed up with
Speaker 2: Shats because it doesn't represent them. Obviously, Sha Swardim support
Speaker 2: the army, things like that, and also the right wing
Speaker 2: religious Zionists, the what we call the card Delhi and
Speaker 2: he means both sides of the Hardli, the the the
Speaker 2: revavin Air types or the Mamachtis and also re Vodovor
Speaker 2: types who are we don't call them ma Machti, but
Speaker 2: the all the herd. And he thought that this could
Speaker 2: be a nice winning coalition. The problem was that not
Speaker 2: all the hard Wi went along, some went with another party.
Speaker 2: But for a while it looked like this would be
Speaker 2: a very powerful party and they would get in and
Speaker 2: everyone was building up of mazous as the next Maron.
Speaker 2: In fact, they made they made the movies, they made videos,
Speaker 2: and there was all sorts of discussions because there was
Speaker 2: no real, I guess, charismatic person in shots. The question was, though,
Speaker 2: would they would the fact that this is Ravadio Saf's party,
Speaker 2: even if he's not here anymore, would there still be
Speaker 2: the nostalgia and the loyalty because the only reason the
Speaker 2: Shas Party got so many people is because traditional Spardi
Speaker 2: were not really orthodox we think of it. They voted
Speaker 2: for him. So let me just show you some of
Speaker 2: the things that came out. It was a very dirty election.
Speaker 2: The Shots party does all sorts of dirty tricks. Uh.
Speaker 2: We don't need to get involved with them in a minute,
Speaker 2: but let me just show you just to give you
Speaker 2: an example of how they portrayed. So here is here's
Speaker 2: one of the movie they made three to two like
Speaker 2: movies and their videos, and the idea was to make
Speaker 2: portray re of Mazous and there for obviously the uh,
Speaker 2: the show the Yaha Party as the true successor to
Speaker 2: the Shas Party. It's like today agudasicerral in Israel, they
Speaker 2: say yadas atarah or dego a toro that that's the truth.
Speaker 2: Before there was a joint that dego a Torah that's
Speaker 2: the true successor to the Gouda Cisuro because the god
Speaker 2: Cestra split. So here I'll just play for you for
Speaker 2: just to get a sense of how they were trying
Speaker 2: to out like a cult of personality. I guess you
Speaker 2: could say rose up around Rev. Mazous and they were
Speaker 2: going to use him. Because what happened was that Eli Yeshai.
Speaker 2: He went to Rubbi Mazus, he's Tunisian himself, that Rev.
Speaker 2: Mazous would be the leader, and they convinced of Mazous
Speaker 2: to leave the base managers. Every day he was going
Speaker 2: speaking at different places. It's a brah that the Yaha
Speaker 2: party never passed. They they got one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: three thousand votes. They never they If ten thousand more,
Speaker 2: they would have been in the Knesset. But it's really
Speaker 2: a brahra because we don't want the go go. We
Speaker 2: might think of being involved in politics every day. They
Speaker 2: should be spending their time learning Torah and giving, sharing
Speaker 2: and writing. But they close. It showed I guess the
Speaker 2: weakness of the hardline that they couldn't Uh, they couldn't
Speaker 2: pull through. But here's first time. Here's one of the videos,
Speaker 2: so you see it's obviously and it's a whole video.
Speaker 2: You can watch it.
Speaker 4: They came up with another video also, Uh, actually that's.
Speaker 2: Just a song, not a video. And then there was
Speaker 2: a third one who has three songs written about them.
Speaker 2: I don't know of any songs that are even as.
Speaker 2: But the two Nisians are very attached to Rabbi mazous
Speaker 2: and uh so this is another song that came out.
Speaker 2: This was after the election. No, but I like the song,
Speaker 2: so if you want later you can listen to some
Speaker 2: of the music. But it became, as I said, very
Speaker 2: dirty the election. And this was when during the election
Speaker 2: video came out of Revot You're safe speaking to his
Speaker 2: people about how uh the stupidity of Aridari really knocking him.
Speaker 2: But uh, we don't know who released that. Obviously someone
Speaker 2: from the family, but it became a guy I said,
Speaker 2: quite a dirty election, and Yitzak Yosef Choletzion, who in
Speaker 2: my book of there's letters from him, he really came
Speaker 2: out very strongly against Romamazu. Spardak society was split and
Speaker 2: remains split. There's two, I guess, circles in the Stardak world.
Speaker 2: You have Rebmazus the leader of one with rev Amar,
Speaker 2: Shomo Amar and many other rabbis, and then you have
Speaker 2: Rasheum Cohen via jose from Dovid Yosef on the other side.
Speaker 2: And there really the Sparta community is split. The Yahad
Speaker 2: party its whole point was Yahad that we're all together.
Speaker 2: They took out Ads with a kipastruga and a black Keepa,
Speaker 2: and Revmazus said that Shas the Shas party should stand
Speaker 2: for shin black shahar keepa and also keep us thruga Sama.
Speaker 2: So they tried to uh have this unity. But I
Speaker 2: want to play you now just for a minute, if
Speaker 2: you if you understand Hebrew, you'll hear what reviews like
Speaker 2: Jo say says about Rabbi Mazous and you get a
Speaker 2: sense of how bitter this has become and remains really
Speaker 2: to this day's And I'll translate afterwards. Modan is.
Speaker 5: Yeslon the coscution they.
Speaker 2: Called him. Yeah, I just want.
Speaker 3: Mother.
Speaker 2: So from the standpoint of the the revavadiof Son, the
Speaker 2: whole approach of the Mazuz is to uproot the sakim
Speaker 2: of the ravvad Yo safe Now it's not true, it
Speaker 2: is not true. And in the Krai Mishiva, this only
Speaker 2: Shiva in the world where they study as a satr
Speaker 2: the Abia oh Mayer. And when all these other Russhi
Speaker 2: Yashiva were attacking ravad Yo Sef, it was only in
Speaker 2: Ram that they supported him. Ravadiosef was the president of
Speaker 2: Ishiva Kram. However, it is true there of Masus does
Speaker 2: not acceptakim and he doesn't accept all of his views.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: In political matters, Rabbi Mazus never became a was never
Speaker 2: on the Mosas of Comentaur of the Shas Party because
Speaker 2: he never agreed with the the the Duvish positions of
Speaker 2: ravavad Yose. But he wouldn't uh disagree with him publicly. Never.
Speaker 2: But he couldn't be on the Moetza Kadola of the
Speaker 2: Shas Party because they give the rubber stamp to everything
Speaker 2: Kramava yos does. So the Shas Party, for instance, abstain
Speaker 2: from OSLO of Mazuza very opposed to OSLO accords, so
Speaker 2: he couldn't be on the Moetzas lachman Towa. But he
Speaker 2: never publicly opposed him, and he did not ever publicly
Speaker 2: oppose any sachem of Khamavadyosaf. That's I guess you could say,
Speaker 2: that's a great uh you know respect. However, once Thekhamavadiosif
Speaker 2: was nftar, he doesn't feel that he needs to follow
Speaker 2: everything he says, and therefore he will tell he will
Speaker 2: give his sucking and he will. He's a right winger,
Speaker 2: he's a Haukist person and this this great you know,
Speaker 2: being Mavaktel himself was only during his lifetime. So when
Speaker 2: Akam it's not Josef says that they are trying to
Speaker 2: uproot the heritage, it's not true, but there is some
Speaker 2: truth to that, because why should the Tunisians and why
Speaker 2: should the Moroccans be bound Tom Khamova yousef uh forever?
Speaker 2: And uh So, yes, when they speak about how Rajaman,
Speaker 2: you know he's the he's hasn't been someone like him
Speaker 2: on hundreds of years, you can see that they'd be upset.
Speaker 2: Uh So that that's and it was a very bitter election.
Speaker 2: So after the election was lost by the ak party. Look,
Speaker 2: if I was an israel I don't think i'd vote
Speaker 2: for the Akha party, even though I consider him my
Speaker 2: rabbi of sorts, uh because politically it doesn't align with me.
Speaker 2: I don't think a little too right wing, and I
Speaker 2: don't like the rabbis getting involved so much. But nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it was upsetting to see how bitter it became. They
Speaker 2: brought everything out in the kitchen sink. The Shas people
Speaker 2: took an old video of Abazusa which he attacks the
Speaker 2: Kabbad Messianis and they portrayed him as being opposed to
Speaker 2: all Chabadi and uh and it and their friend they
Speaker 2: brought it to far Rabbat so that they would not
Speaker 2: get any votes from the Labovicher's. They they brought up
Speaker 2: stuff at his liberal view of conversion to try to
Speaker 2: get I mean it was they they really, it's not
Speaker 2: good to see Bala Batim Mosconi trying to defame rabbis,
Speaker 2: but whatever it happens. So I wrote him a letter
Speaker 2: saying how upset I was to see that so called
Speaker 2: Orthodox Jews could fall to such a level where they
Speaker 2: engage in such behavior. Look, it's a rabbi. Masus was
Speaker 2: naive and a lot of people are naive. If you're
Speaker 2: good in politics, it's a rough and tumble, it's a
Speaker 2: dirty business. If you don't, you're not gonna end the gutter. Then, uh,
Speaker 2: you know you shouldn't be there. You need to you
Speaker 2: need to respond in kind. We know that negative advertising works.
Speaker 2: So I wrote him this, and then he writes back
Speaker 2: to me. This is in tamos of toughs and iron.
Speaker 2: Hey calls me the new hair car. He says, I
Speaker 2: haven't had time to respond to you too. Now, he says,
Speaker 2: from the from the election until now, they continue to
Speaker 2: persecute us and everyone who's an to us. They threw
Speaker 2: out students from yeshivos and and people studying in co
Speaker 2: Wel who we're working for Yaha, that's the way the
Speaker 2: Haredi work. They did it. They were also against the
Speaker 2: Pelag group for Aerbach. If you would work for a
Speaker 2: certain the other political party, they throw you out of
Speaker 2: their yeshivas. Khi to our reformy don't sniff my palm
Speaker 2: as if we're a reform group or a branch of Mapam.
Speaker 2: And despite this, Uh on the other hand, he says,
Speaker 2: for your laped, they show him a good face and
Speaker 2: they invite him to various events. Goodola Sinnim Haredi mata Harididim.
Speaker 2: He says that the hatred we've seen of the Haajing
Speaker 2: for other Harijim is worse than the hatred of the
Speaker 2: the secularists for the Haridime. And we know that is
Speaker 2: the case. The battles internal battles in the Haadi world,
Speaker 2: the way they fight with each other, it's worse than
Speaker 2: the way the secularists opposed the Haredim. There's no hate
Speaker 2: trede like you have in the Haidi world one to
Speaker 2: the other unfortunately. But then he says it's not going
Speaker 2: to help them. He quotes a plus from Judah Levy's poetry.
Speaker 2: So I think this is actually an important letter because
Speaker 2: after the election of Mazus gave one speech that I
Speaker 2: know of. You can see it on the Yeshiva website,
Speaker 2: in which he spoke about all the things they did
Speaker 2: and how despite that, we didn't go in the gutter
Speaker 2: with them, and we're very proud of the fact that
Speaker 2: we got one hundred and twenty thousand votes. I mean
Speaker 2: on hundred twenty thousand votes. Everyone said afterwards, though these
Speaker 2: are votes in the garbage, that these votes could have
Speaker 2: gone to one of the right wing parties. But as
Speaker 2: far as I know, this is the only written document
Speaker 2: where he reflects on the loss. So one day when
Speaker 2: they write the history of the Aha party and Eli Yeshi,
Speaker 2: I mean he's finished his poitical career, although he served honorably,
Speaker 2: But they will use this letter, I believe, and together
Speaker 2: with what I sent him, I also sent him. One
Speaker 2: of the ways Rabbi Masus was attacked, especially in the
Speaker 2: lead up to the election, is they argued that he
Speaker 2: has no respect for Godoli you or as they tried,
Speaker 2: they had to tear down the the leading figure the
Speaker 2: spiritual here, so they say he had so they wrote,
Speaker 2: they have these magazines that came out saying he has
Speaker 2: no respect for Godoley, exciting all the different things he said.
Speaker 2: And one of the things he said is that remazousa
Speaker 2: many talent places has pointed out that the Reshow name
Speaker 2: wrote many of their writings their books from memory. How
Speaker 2: do we know that? Because they misquote Sukim And there's
Speaker 2: plenty of examples of this in my book studies in
Speaker 2: my money's as interpreters. I haven't here, I don't have
Speaker 2: a copy here. I give examples, many, many examples, And
Speaker 2: I actually think this is a positive thing. It shows
Speaker 2: how brilliant they were, the Rumbaum and others, that they
Speaker 2: knew everything by heart, and they didn't copy it. They
Speaker 2: didn't bother looking. They just knew about heart. So they
Speaker 2: make little mistakes sometimes. What's the alternative? You want to
Speaker 2: say that they had a different version of Flemish? Is
Speaker 2: that more respectful? Uh? We saw the right got to
Speaker 2: come and estuly suggested that. But no, they were citing
Speaker 2: from memory and they but they use this to show
Speaker 2: that by Mazuza doesn't respect Goadol because he says that
Speaker 2: they make mistakes and no, I mean, what else you
Speaker 2: supposed to do there quoting a pusuka. Uh, it's incorrect,
Speaker 2: but they would. They made a whole big thing. So
Speaker 2: he writes to me, thank you very much for sending
Speaker 2: me all them a coro, because I sent him many
Speaker 2: many more Kim sukim. And then he says, even Mosher
Speaker 2: Abenu says, Shamati Vishakafti, if Mosher Abenu can make a
Speaker 2: mistake and say you say you forgot something, all the
Speaker 2: more so that other gadolis so uh. And this is
Speaker 2: this is important, the idea that you're gonna say that
Speaker 2: rashow you never miss quote Sukim. If you say that,
Speaker 2: then you're left to saying that they had different versions
Speaker 2: of kanaka and that that's definitely not the case. We
Speaker 2: see that the examples in Rashi, We see examples in
Speaker 2: the Rambam where they obviously were quoting from memory. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's a manuscript issue and the misquote, like a Sotheok Verdakov,
Speaker 2: is only in the manuscript. But other times we have
Speaker 2: their their actual hand their handwriting, and uh so they
Speaker 2: cited from memory, as as Joseph given Cospi says, I
Speaker 2: cite this in my book. He says, you shouldn't be
Speaker 2: surprised by this. Do you think that every time this
Speaker 2: great Rabbi wants the quota pusle, he's going to go
Speaker 2: look it up and find it? They cited it. Maybe
Speaker 2: they assumed that the person who reads it will correct
Speaker 2: it if it's wrong. That's simon. This brings us the
Speaker 2: same and this goes back. This is one of the
Speaker 2: earliest letters. And I'm not I know why I wrote it,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't sure what the motivation was. I know
Speaker 2: I know what led up to her. I should say,
Speaker 2: we all know who Wagner is here. Let me the
Speaker 2: big anti Semiti, but the great composer, Let's see Yakov Cats.
Speaker 2: Yak of Cats wrote a whole book, The Darker Sye
Speaker 2: Genius Richard Wagner's anti Semitism. One of the issues that
Speaker 2: scholars look at is, uh is do you see the
Speaker 2: anti Semitism coming out in his music or anything like that.
Speaker 2: There were many Jews who were fans. I guess you
Speaker 2: could say of Wagner. Israel has never played Vonner the Symphony.
Speaker 2: They never played Vagner after the war because of the
Speaker 2: anti Semitism, the connection, of course the Holocaust. There's even
Speaker 2: a direct connection between Hitler and Wagner in that Wagner's
Speaker 2: son in law was Houston Stewart Chamberlain, who he married
Speaker 2: the daughter of Wagner, and he, as it says here,
Speaker 2: has been referred to as Hitler as John the Baptist.
Speaker 2: Hitler was very much inspired by him, came to see him.
Speaker 2: So although Wagner was not what you call a racial antisemitism,
Speaker 2: a racial anti Semite, that is, he hated Jews, but
Speaker 2: occasionally you can have a Jew that Wagner liked. But
Speaker 2: Wagner's music was raised during the Nazis to the heights
Speaker 2: of authority, and obviously Mendelssohn was degraded as Jewish music.
Speaker 1: Hm.
Speaker 2: I remember when Zubin Meda the the conductor. I believe
Speaker 2: that he was the conductor for the usual phil harmonica
Speaker 2: they put together. They wanted to Wagner and people they
Speaker 2: did it actually, and people got very angry. People sent
Speaker 2: back their season's tickets.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Zubin Meda incidentally he's as I recall, he's a zoro
Speaker 2: Astrian that many of them left. That was the major
Speaker 2: religion in Babylonian the days of in the days of Krasal.
Speaker 2: But as I recall, check it now, Zubin just occurred
Speaker 2: to me, meda, is he he's writing me a director emeritus. Uh, yeah, he's. Uh,
Speaker 2: he's pretty positive that he's. Uh. If you look in
Speaker 2: if I look at Joe Zo Austrian famous people, let
Speaker 2: me just see quickly here, Yes, he comes up. Actually,
Speaker 2: you know the other one comes up, who's even more famous,
Speaker 2: Freddie Mercury. Freddie Merculey was a Zoorastrian. If you don't
Speaker 2: know what sire Astrian is, uh, check it out. But
Speaker 2: they people got very upset. So at the time Wagnder
Speaker 2: was in the news. If you're if you're a Jew,
Speaker 2: a good Jew, you won't uh. And and you're not
Speaker 2: religious religious Jews wouldn't do this. You wouldn't, for example,
Speaker 2: play this at your wedding. Do not see year as
Speaker 2: you couldn't even if you wanted to. But I would say,
Speaker 2: if you're a good Jew, you shouldn't blame mendosin't either,
Speaker 2: although he converted as a child, so you don't want
Speaker 2: to blame him. But still he's a mashumad. But uh,
Speaker 2: so one I think they play when they walk down
Speaker 2: the aisle, the other they play when they go back.
Speaker 2: I guess it's yeah, yeahs you joined together Wagner and
Speaker 2: the one he hated and despised Mendelssohn. But so I
Speaker 2: was interested what what Rabbi Mazous thought about the Wagner.
Speaker 2: I mean, why not, I'm not listen to Wagner. Happened
Speaker 2: to like Wagner when he would listen to one of
Speaker 2: the it's recorded one of the what he felt anti
Speaker 2: Semitic Arab musicians. He'd listen and he'd say, yeah, like
Speaker 2: but he listened to the music. But I wrote to him,
Speaker 2: and he writes back to me that, Uh, in general
Speaker 2: they're listening to music is problematic because the corbun we
Speaker 2: allow listening to music from the radio. But you know,
Speaker 2: so this Hatari but he says, niginos the music of
Speaker 2: this time in a Wagner, he says, she does user
Speaker 2: show it's it's forbidden. I'm very interested to know what
Speaker 2: the Orthodox did in Germany. Maybe uh, we have someone
Speaker 2: of long standing here from uh uh German Orthodox community
Speaker 2: Washington Heights growing up, if you ever heard anything Wagner,
Speaker 2: because there are Jews who listened to Wagner and her
Speaker 2: attitude was the fact that hates us. I still like
Speaker 2: his music. I don't know when the Orthodox world, if
Speaker 2: we all know they went to the opera, that they
Speaker 2: go to the Wagner opera, were they in that cult?
Speaker 2: Her crime? Cohen in his conversation with Michael shashar is,
Speaker 2: I think he mentions going to Wagner if I recall,
Speaker 2: but uh, I'd be curious to know about that. But
Speaker 2: he says it's it's us, sir, because because of the horbone,
Speaker 2: and you don't give a hectar, I guess for an
Speaker 2: anti Semite. Until he says, listen to this until God, uh,
Speaker 2: you know, punishes Germany for what the punishment they should receive.
Speaker 2: And then he says, as juchnasu among you, he says,
Speaker 2: then once they Germany receives its punishment, then these tunes
Speaker 2: could return to a place of holiness. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: what that means. I think what it means is that
Speaker 2: the punishment when Germany, it's like a capitalistic thing. After
Speaker 2: Germany receives its punishment, which will serve as a sort
Speaker 2: of catharsis, I guess, or a cleansing of a civil elements.
Speaker 2: So only the holy aspect, maybe the inspiration that you
Speaker 2: can be inspired from this music will be remain then
Speaker 2: be admissible. But this sounds like Underriff Cook would say,
Speaker 2: I was shocked, and I think that's what it means.
Speaker 2: Then once they're punished, once Germany receives its due, then
Speaker 2: the songs will be permissible. Whatever that means. I think
Speaker 2: it has some capitalistic significance. I don't know, but let's
Speaker 2: let's leave it at there. And then we moved to
Speaker 2: Simon Kouf mem age. This has a few things I'm
Speaker 2: not going to get into. One I wrote to him
Speaker 2: about there was a man named Dovid Casis and who
Speaker 2: wrote all these articles about the rabbis of Tunisia, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask him, who's the stuff at Kusis
Speaker 2: and and behold, he says all sorts of bad things.
Speaker 2: He was the menihal of the the Alian school in
Speaker 2: tunis So that caused all sorts of problems, led to
Speaker 2: a terrible spiritual decline. So I didn't know that, but
Speaker 2: that's interesting. And then I asked him the question, since
Speaker 2: he's so involved with Pute and Shirasafarad, what about the
Speaker 2: fact that we've mentioned already. You have these poems written
Speaker 2: by great figures, medieval figures, that homo eeronic poems deal
Speaker 2: with homosexuality. How is it that medieval Spanish poets so
Speaker 2: would write like this? And I'm not sure. No one's
Speaker 2: really sure what to make of it. I shouldn't say
Speaker 2: no one's worth a lot of people think. Some people
Speaker 2: think it was just their adopting a formula that the
Speaker 2: Arabs use, like sheare a sharing. It would be no
Speaker 2: difference if you write that they write also poems about
Speaker 2: pretty young girls. Also they say pretty young women. But
Speaker 2: in those days women was younger than it is today.
Speaker 2: So what to make of this? Listen, you can read
Speaker 2: all the scholarship on it shindling, and but Rabil Mozou says,
Speaker 2: Asasha have to think that any of the real Spanish
Speaker 2: poets were writing that. On the contrary, he cites them
Speaker 2: the work Takimony. There's ten songs they are cursing a
Speaker 2: certain evil one who did write like this. So he
Speaker 2: acknowledges that there was one person writing like this. But
Speaker 2: this is an evil one. But when you think in
Speaker 2: terms of the poets, the great poets people have mostly
Speaker 2: been Ezra and others who are I can't remember if
Speaker 2: he writes just about homo erotic stuff for just about women.
Speaker 2: But you have all these sorts of poems. He says
Speaker 2: that the hawkers Monday knew me here from their own
Speaker 2: here ayle we bomb they're writing about this, So then
Speaker 2: what what what do you do with these poems? He
Speaker 2: says that when they speak about the young uh Sikram,
Speaker 2: the young good looking man, it's just a nice young man,
Speaker 2: the ambodophie, and there's no problem with it. But uh,
Speaker 2: maybe yes, maybe no, I don't know. Uh they you know,
Speaker 2: they do have poems though where they write about wine,
Speaker 2: they write about women, they write about men. There's all
Speaker 2: sorts of weird stuff going on, and I'm prepared to
Speaker 2: accept that this is just a genre, just like share
Speaker 2: a sharing you is a genre. You you adopt that
Speaker 2: sort of language as a sort of side. That was
Speaker 2: how they wrote poetry. So uh, I understand that today
Speaker 2: we never would write like that, but they were think
Speaker 2: in a different environment, and it's hard to imagine that
Speaker 2: poets within an Orthodox society would publicly write about forbidden
Speaker 2: desires and things like that. It still was a community,
Speaker 2: which you know, the rabbis had certain control with the
Speaker 2: community leaders. They didn't allow just have carus. I mean,
Speaker 2: you had problems obviously, you know in Spain they had problems.
Speaker 2: They had all sorts of problems with men living with
Speaker 2: concubines and things like that. But to have people writing
Speaker 2: about it, it's it's an issue, though I don't really
Speaker 2: know what to do. If there's one answer that can
Speaker 2: solve all these problems, I think I think Raymond Schinlan,
Speaker 2: I think assumes that these are real reflections of what
Speaker 2: people were thinking, which is fine about some things you
Speaker 2: don't know. But when you have she a hole of
Speaker 2: people are given by rawl, even Ezras and others. It's
Speaker 2: hard to know what to make of this. But that
Speaker 2: is just a short letter. We can't really go into
Speaker 2: it in detail because I don't I don't really know
Speaker 2: enough about it. This is and I don't know what
Speaker 2: to make of it. And then I asked him a
Speaker 2: different question that there was a huge issue in the
Speaker 2: name Brock about this, but others have written about it.
Speaker 2: A rabbi named from yeshivas Raka named Rabimosha Levy unfortunately
Speaker 2: died young. He wrote, He died in his early forties,
Speaker 2: and he probably wrote like fifteen books, important works. One
Speaker 2: of them is us on the rolls of Shabis, and
Speaker 2: he discussed the issue. It's an old question, can you
Speaker 2: kill lice on shabus? Well, well, normally you know you
Speaker 2: don't kill insects or but the Gamara tells us this
Speaker 2: is shabas, that you're allowed to kill lice on shabis.
Speaker 2: Why because only animals, only living beings that reproduce together
Speaker 2: male female reproduction is forbidden to be killed on shabis.
Speaker 2: But you can kill lice because lice don't reproduce. Lice
Speaker 2: they come out of your sweat. They spontaneously generate spontaneous
Speaker 2: generation rumba. By the way, he also accepted spontaneous generation.
Speaker 2: He's writing in medieval tonious. So the question therefore is
Speaker 2: can you kill licen shabas? Because now today we know
Speaker 2: that lice doesn't to spontaneously reproduce, and you take a
Speaker 2: microscope and you can see lice eggs. So this question
Speaker 2: was raised by this Rabbi Levy, and then Brock exploded
Speaker 2: with people saying what type of heretic are you talking
Speaker 2: about this matter? And I asked for by Mazzous and
Speaker 2: he just points out that I sent him a number
Speaker 2: of books. I wanted to know because there are people
Speaker 2: who say that doesn't matter what Krasal determined to be
Speaker 2: the Hallaja, even if we have scientific nation differently, we
Speaker 2: keep it and others thought differently. Hezuos even mentions, he
Speaker 2: says that I think this is the Mahokus in the Pacajnti,
Speaker 2: and he's right. This question is first raised in the
Speaker 2: eighteenth century. It's not called Prompt raises the question because
Speaker 2: now we could see that the lice are reproducing. Rasuk
Speaker 2: On PROMPTI thought that we should be Machner today and
Speaker 2: in our own day there have been people who've said
Speaker 2: that as our color of Kafer says we should not
Speaker 2: kill licen jobs because now we see and Rasal. We're
Speaker 2: not speaking to us from Vola or any royal Kodesh
Speaker 2: or anything even a tradition. They were just in line
Speaker 2: with the best scientists of their day. And now we
Speaker 2: see that it's incorrect that even life eggs reproduce, and
Speaker 2: therefore we shouldn't kill it. And that is a position
Speaker 2: held by post came. But the majority position is we
Speaker 2: don't change. And you took on Prompti who wanted to
Speaker 2: be Machner. He sent his juva to his teacher of
Speaker 2: Judah Briel or Hui. Briell says, no, no, we don't
Speaker 2: change Halaha. The issue of ben a Brock was that
Speaker 2: they thought it was heresy to say that the sages
Speaker 2: might not have all the facts and might have made
Speaker 2: a decision incorrectly. But by Desker had a different approach.
Speaker 2: By Desper said, and this also, I think a Brock
Speaker 2: they might have a problem with it. He said that Rasal,
Speaker 2: we have a tradition that you can't you can you
Speaker 2: can kill by sunshots. The reason for it, however, did
Speaker 2: not come from tradition. The Razal tried to come up
Speaker 2: with a reason, and therefore they gave this reason. But
Speaker 2: the law doesn't depend on the reason. They just started
Speaker 2: giving the reason what they were told by scientists. They
Speaker 2: didn't investigate it. That's the assumption what he's saying. They
Speaker 2: didn't investigate it. He said that they just gave a reason.
Speaker 2: But the reason doesn't bind us. So if you don't
Speaker 2: like that reason, it doesn't mean you changed the halaka
Speaker 2: because there's other reasons that we don't know about. The
Speaker 2: girl also said that when the sages give reasons for things,
Speaker 2: don't assume that that's the only reason. There's other reasons
Speaker 2: for shimsh rthal hersh. He has a whole letter explaining
Speaker 2: that the sages were not scientists. They went to the
Speaker 2: best scientists of their day, like we go to the
Speaker 2: best scientists, and if the best scientists the day said something,
Speaker 2: then then he accepted it. The problem, however, is Sarah
Speaker 2: Maazoos doesn't think it's an issue at all. He says,
Speaker 2: this is an old dispute, and he writes to the
Speaker 2: people who are attack your emotional levy, if you're gonna
Speaker 2: attack him, look back. What is the going to say
Speaker 2: about if anyone says King David sinned when he didn't
Speaker 2: I raise a toys and he's mistaken. You're not going
Speaker 2: to call people heretics. It's a there's a lot of
Speaker 2: extremism in there. But I just want to note that
Speaker 2: I found something which shows you that maybe everyone's wrong,
Speaker 2: and as all didn't know, I don't And maybe you
Speaker 2: don't need a microscope, because why do I say this
Speaker 2: laser Piccizer is a late mid Rush from the eighth century,
Speaker 2: maybe ninth century. If you could chop with twenty six
Speaker 2: he's it says that it says that uh when Avimelf
Speaker 2: with Avram Avi Melf, all the uh. We were told
Speaker 2: that all the uh because we took Sarah everyone in
Speaker 2: his household in the cavos, the women became barren. What
Speaker 2: does it say how you call him the cavospace across
Speaker 2: a feel on bates say keenan. Here we see in Picketerblazer,
Speaker 2: which was recorded in the ninth century century, but a
Speaker 2: records tradition was going back hundreds of years that they
Speaker 2: recognize that such a thing as as eggs of the vice.
Speaker 2: So the idea that they didn't know about it, we
Speaker 2: see they did know about it. Science made no real
Speaker 2: changes from the years one to the year one thousand.
Speaker 2: Now there's no real advances in the sense that significant advances.
Speaker 2: So if they knew something in the eighth century, then
Speaker 2: they knew it in the fourth century. So none of
Speaker 2: the chew vote, as far as I know that discussed
Speaker 2: this referred to the period zer So I would go
Speaker 2: with her by Despler. I think that the not really
Speaker 2: Destler with others who explained that yes, they knew that
Speaker 2: there were they'd say that they device had eggs. How
Speaker 2: they knew about it. Maybe you can't see it even
Speaker 2: with the naked eye. I don't know. Maybe they have
Speaker 2: a tradition. Who knows. But there's this notion which is
Speaker 2: put forth by some of the Afroo mean that if
Speaker 2: you can't see it, it's as if it doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: just like we with the naked eye, so well we
Speaker 2: can't see. I mean one way we can't see. You
Speaker 2: can if you can't see a bug, you can eat it.
Speaker 2: The question. The only issue is that they have the
Speaker 2: big disputes about lettuce and everything is if you can
Speaker 2: see it, but you can't see it move, You just
Speaker 2: see like a piece of dirt. Some say that's a problem,
Speaker 2: others say it's not. So we cannot see the two
Speaker 2: lice create the eggs. If you see the egg, that's
Speaker 2: not an issue. I mean, if something grows, you can
Speaker 2: see it, but we cannot see the de lice join
Speaker 2: together and then create the next egg the eggs. So
Speaker 2: if that's the case, it's it's not. It's not apparent
Speaker 2: to the human eye. Therefore it has no significance. So
Speaker 2: when they say that any creatures that do not reproduce
Speaker 2: male and female, it's not referring to reproduction that can't
Speaker 2: be seen. It's referring to like a dog and a cat,
Speaker 2: and even maybe answer something so that that seems to
Speaker 2: me to be the best way of dealing with this problem.
Speaker 2: That it's not a because I didn't know. If they
Speaker 2: didn't know, they didn't know. But that's not the issue.
Speaker 2: The issue is when they speak about the lack of
Speaker 2: reproduction and talk about that you can see, and that
Speaker 2: would solve the problem with the curcater of the answer.
Speaker 2: And that's such the tuva here, and then we get
Speaker 2: into the next tuva. This is the last one we'll
Speaker 2: do tonight. Page one one. Hey, sorry, two ninety six,
Speaker 2: number one forty one, And this is a very long one.
Speaker 2: This you have to first see my letter I have.
Speaker 2: What I did is I save up all my questions
Speaker 2: and I send him So there's my questions and his answers.
Speaker 2: So it begins I begin by saying that I don't
Speaker 2: need you to always reply to my letters because I
Speaker 2: don't want to cause bitteltober. But if you look at
Speaker 2: what I write, then I'll feel good about that, and
Speaker 2: I'll skip the first thing I wrote about, and I'll
Speaker 2: go to the second one. And this deals with my letter,
Speaker 2: deals with this individual. His name is a rabbi uh
Speaker 2: Ray Moosha Kunitz of Often. Often is the German word
Speaker 2: for Buddha Buddha. Pest used to be divided between pest
Speaker 2: and Buddha, and Buddha was called often. He was the
Speaker 2: rabbi in Offen and he wrote a number of books.
Speaker 2: He wrote responsa called I'm sorry there you see it
Speaker 2: there it says here and this is uh they're selling
Speaker 2: this by auction. He was a controversial figure as he
Speaker 2: was both a rabbi, great interroer knowledge as well as
Speaker 2: an enlightenist. That's not an English word fluent insecular studies.
Speaker 2: But that's not they got it wrong here. That's not
Speaker 2: why he was controversial. Really, he was controversial by the
Speaker 2: way he wrote it. This book also, this is a famous,
Speaker 2: most famous org It's called the Benoi. It's all about Schimbnchrai.
Speaker 2: It's a very important work because it shows you every
Speaker 2: example in in Aracic in the Reshow name, and that
Speaker 2: can be traced to the zo ar. But it's also
Speaker 2: very important. Here's the cave, the cave that Rashbie was in.
Speaker 2: It's also important because he rejects Ravolkoveden. Rivolkovem didn't argue
Speaker 2: that the zo ar is medivo, it's late, even though
Speaker 2: it could. It preserves he throws the holy work, it
Speaker 2: preserves certain traditions. But the Zoora as we have and
Speaker 2: he thinks is a complete medieval work with sections that
Speaker 2: I guess would be ancient in it, and this is
Speaker 2: a rejection of it. And he goes through page after
Speaker 2: page his the haussem Soff said he'd rather have Jako
Speaker 2: Venden said than what he said, because what his replies
Speaker 2: are just most them are completely bogus. There's few of
Speaker 2: them are good, but the very first one is the
Speaker 2: famous one. The zoa refers to a snowgun as a
Speaker 2: big kanesse, and this is what's a snow good. It's
Speaker 2: clearly word synagogue, from the word synagogue that we know it.
Speaker 2: So he tries to come up with some crazy etymology.
Speaker 2: No one really takes that work of rom Moosha Kunitz seriously,
Speaker 2: although his chew vote are quite interesting and his cheu
Speaker 2: voter are important because he preserves one of the only
Speaker 2: hawk writings of Nisson. In fact, it might be the
Speaker 2: only Hajakak letter of Ramussadas in there. And do you
Speaker 2: have letters in there from the Big Dolium as well
Speaker 2: as from some Hoscala figures Ramosha Kunitz. If you go
Speaker 2: to Budapest today, you go to the cemetery and Mosha
Speaker 2: Kunitz is buried in the row of the rabbis because
Speaker 2: he was the roof of often he was one of
Speaker 2: the godolim of Budapest. What happened was that he's right
Speaker 2: next to a person named of Shimon. Behind. People have
Speaker 2: never heard of showing Appenheim, but I used to take
Speaker 2: I take my groups there. We'll go back God Willie
Speaker 2: again and I always tell them that the Hasidium come
Speaker 2: to the screen from schowing Opaenheim, which is too over
Speaker 2: from uh As I recall from Musha Kunitz. And every
Speaker 2: time we're there there's never any Hasidi Barkasha. And the
Speaker 2: last time we went, we're there and a whole group
Speaker 2: will hasid him come. Why did him come? Because it's
Speaker 2: your schuman Opodeim was a Hustan, but he has on
Speaker 2: his tombstone. In fact, I think some people listening to
Speaker 2: us now we even came with us. We're on that
Speaker 2: trip that I Center Europe trip. On the tombstone, he says,
Speaker 2: whoever comes here and recites a certain prayer, the they like,
Speaker 2: what's the worst. He called the prayer I forgot from
Speaker 2: Mavari al Baka. It's just like a user type of prayer.
Speaker 2: I will intercede with you in heaven. So this is
Speaker 2: very unusual. Here. You have a guarantee that if you
Speaker 2: come to the kever and you recite this prayer, he's
Speaker 2: going to intercede with you. So I guess, uh, it
Speaker 2: can't hurt. But this is the Hasidim go through. They
Speaker 2: go to the different graves they do. We go to
Speaker 2: different sites and we go to some graves, but they go.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. I found these Hastine team and they're in
Speaker 2: the most the big cities. They don't even bother going
Speaker 2: to the sites. They just go to the Kavarium and
Speaker 2: this is one of the kaorium on the stops. They'll
Speaker 2: go here and then from here they'll go to Rbishaia
Speaker 2: of Kristier and they'll do all the different graves. And
Speaker 2: they come there because he says he'll interceed Sir Emosha
Speaker 2: Kunitz is there in the nineteenth century, early nineteenth century,
Speaker 2: the reformers, they wanted some halk justification. There was one
Speaker 2: generation where the reformers wanted hallachic backing for their ideas,
Speaker 2: and then they just became complete reformers. And one of
Speaker 2: the things they want to all look backing for was
Speaker 2: to play music in a show. And they wrote to
Speaker 2: Italy because in Italy they had music. In Italy actually
Speaker 2: used music like the Organs in the show by a
Speaker 2: non Jew. But they also wrote to Ramosha Kunitz. There's
Speaker 2: a reason in this the rabbis in Germany, because the
Speaker 2: rabbis in Germany knew what type of people these were.
Speaker 2: They just were looking for hetyry. But they wrote to
Speaker 2: for Mosha Kunitz, and Mosha Kunitz he wrote an answer.
Speaker 2: He just went through the Holak sources. He says, well,
Speaker 2: if a non Jew's playing it, what's the problem. It's
Speaker 2: a show. Shows, as we say, you can called mitza.
Speaker 2: It's a cerabinic prohibition. It's very playing an instrument in
Speaker 2: the first place is rabbinic and having Annjuw play it
Speaker 2: is a double it's a double remove, so we know
Speaker 2: that's permissible. Non Jews play instruments. On Friday night at
Speaker 2: a wedding, we have non Jews light the candles in
Speaker 2: the shools. So he just looked at it from pure
Speaker 2: alachek and says, if it's that, if it's positive, then
Speaker 2: you can do it. Well. When this was published, he
Speaker 2: was no one attacked him in his lifetime as a reformer,
Speaker 2: and everyone's still considered him just a rabbi who was
Speaker 2: led astray by the reformers who got him in their grip.
Speaker 2: But by the twentieth century he was regarded as a reformist,
Speaker 2: which is not true. He's an open minded rabbi, but
Speaker 2: he's not a reformist at all. He's a regular rov
Speaker 2: He's a diant. He he's buried with the with the
Speaker 2: he lived and died to die, the die in in
Speaker 2: in Buddha. And actually later he moved to Pest and uh,
Speaker 2: you see where he's buried. And he was always regarded
Speaker 2: as a liberal rabbi, but uh, an authentic rabbi, so
Speaker 2: much so that his reputation took a turn for the worse.
Speaker 2: That and I say this all in my letter to
Speaker 2: Rabbie Mansus that they removed. If you look in the
Speaker 2: old vilnameshneis not the new print one the ones we
Speaker 2: all have with the Tosa Jumptov and the Partanurra. At
Speaker 2: the first volume, right at the beginning of it, you
Speaker 2: have the biography he wrote, like a biography in a
Speaker 2: like a play of of Una Nassi. And they only
Speaker 2: they take part of it. They don't do the whole thing,
Speaker 2: but they include part of his as I recall, first
Speaker 2: he has the biography and then he has a whole play.
Speaker 2: But the biography they included. It's in your villain, missigis
Speaker 2: in your bookcase is if you have it. Ramosha Kunit's
Speaker 2: biography they moved. They took it all out because he's
Speaker 2: a reformer. And I'm writing all this try Mazous because
Speaker 2: he he excites Rabai h Mosha Kunitz and growing up
Speaker 2: in Tunis, they would learn his stary. And the last
Speaker 2: thing I mentioned is something I said to Rabbi Mazus,
Speaker 2: and I began with a quiz question. I'll ask you
Speaker 2: another question and we'll end. So I write to Rabbi Mazus,
Speaker 2: I said, I say, if the sensors really wanted to
Speaker 2: if these people who took out Ramosha Kunitz's commentary, who
Speaker 2: know nothing about Ramosha Kunits, but if they really wanted
Speaker 2: to be the censors, then there's something else they could
Speaker 2: take out. And I said to Mazuza, and you yourself
Speaker 2: called attention to this right after Ramosha Kunitz's I think
Speaker 2: it's right after, not right before, No, right after Ramosha
Speaker 2: Kunitz's biography of Nasi. There is a a grammar of
Speaker 2: mi Hebrew. And let me show you this, and this
Speaker 2: will be the last thing we see today, and we'll
Speaker 2: see ifia who can figure it out? What I'm going
Speaker 2: to show you. So in this grammar is by a
Speaker 2: mascule of in Ville Mellers around there called Shomo Levinson.
Speaker 2: It's called my Maraldicto Gshna Mission. And you have in
Speaker 2: all your texts. In the second column over here he
Speaker 2: talks about how in the Mishnah they you see already
Speaker 2: usages of Aramaic. What do you mean usage is of Aramaic. Well,
Speaker 2: they use Aramaic words putting it into Hebrew. So for instance,
Speaker 2: the word baked a fila house of prayer. In Aramaic,
Speaker 2: it's called baked baconista, and then that comes back into
Speaker 2: Hebrew as baconess. That's what he's saying. And he gives
Speaker 2: a number of examples of where words in Aramaic are
Speaker 2: brought back into Hebrew. Through the Aramaic the word matsoi
Speaker 2: is because of the word sriach, and then he gives
Speaker 2: this example right here. He says, also say the word
Speaker 2: levat the biblical Hebrew, and you'd have the word you
Speaker 2: know instead, you say, in the Missionah, you have the
Speaker 2: word hoots instead of levade. Why not levade alone? You
Speaker 2: know this person, You will say this person, not those people,
Speaker 2: He said alone from those people. You do use the
Speaker 2: word levad, and that would be the biblical word. But
Speaker 2: instead of that they use the word hoots. Now why
Speaker 2: do they use the word hoots, he says, because in
Speaker 2: Aramaic you have the word bar. Bar means The word
Speaker 2: bar means outside, but it also like in, but it
Speaker 2: also means a separated from so for example, the word
Speaker 2: so so when you take it back into Hebrew, bar
Speaker 2: means outside. That means huts, but it also means like separated,
Speaker 2: not just outside, like living outside your house. Kots may
Speaker 2: I mean you also sayhutz so separated from everyone else.
Speaker 2: So again, the word huts is not a biblical Hebrew word.
Speaker 2: It's uh. But the word bar in Aramaic, he's saying,
Speaker 2: refers to outside. So then it becomes in Hebrew, both
Speaker 2: usages outside. Let's say outside the house, but also outside,
Speaker 2: you know, outside of us our group. And then he said,
Speaker 2: so in the note, look in the note, and this
Speaker 2: is let's see who can figure it out. He says.
Speaker 2: Remember that the word hoots is not a biblical Hebrew word.
Speaker 2: He says, vimsa chan palmacher. You'll find it one time
Speaker 2: in the book of Cohelis, and he cites the verse uh.
Speaker 2: Here in Cohellis, here's the verse he cites a chapter three,
Speaker 2: you'joy chapter two. It's a mistake. Here, let's see where
Speaker 2: is it. I've gotta serve quickly here where is it?
Speaker 2: Hold on, I get write it down. Ah, yes, here
Speaker 2: in verse twenty five. Take a look. What does the
Speaker 2: verse say, kimi l umi a us for who will
Speaker 2: eat or who will enjoy? Hoots me many apart from me.
Speaker 2: So here you have the word used in Biblical Hebrew
Speaker 2: huts meaning So let's go back to what he says. Now, Oh,
Speaker 2: whorse ah. So she says, you'll find it one time
Speaker 2: in the Bible in this passo kumia huts me many.
Speaker 2: Then he says the imsu odase for Asia. You'll find
Speaker 2: other places in this book arbei dardbour many other examples
Speaker 2: of the forms of language a shahima kafi that are
Speaker 2: in line with this principle. We're talking about Aramaic back
Speaker 2: into Hebrew. Tom you duo askill and he says the
Speaker 2: reason for this is known to the people who are
Speaker 2: maskille the intelligent, okay class. What does he referring to?
Speaker 2: What does he mean? What is the tom ya duah
Speaker 2: the maskill that you'll find in Cohells, the these Aramaic
Speaker 2: forms back into Hebrew. Who's gonna tell us tom ya
Speaker 2: duel as. What he's hinting to but not saying explicitly
Speaker 2: is that this is the proof that Cohellis is a
Speaker 2: later work not written by Sho wouldn't use uh these
Speaker 2: Aramaic terms. So he says that the word hoots is
Speaker 2: not found at all in Tooth except in Cohelis. And
Speaker 2: you also find other examples where these Aramaic forms are
Speaker 2: put back into Hebrew. And the reason for that is
Speaker 2: not he doesn't want to spell it out. But those
Speaker 2: who now understand, namely that Cohellis is really not solemonic,
Speaker 2: but is a much later work when they already did.
Speaker 2: Ironmac now remind Mazush is going to pointed it out.
Speaker 2: But if I said to him, if the censor has
Speaker 2: understood this, that's what they should censor. But that's in
Speaker 2: every one of your Messnaiases. And yet Mosha Kunitz is
Speaker 2: very kosher, nice biography of reviewed. And I'll see that's
Speaker 2: been removed, but this, this semi fra is, it still
Speaker 2: remains there. So we'll end with that. We're in the
Speaker 2: middle of my letter. And as I said, next class
Speaker 2: we'll be with Klemen Schulmann, the Musk, it will do
Speaker 2: with Ggo and with the Rashash has to write about
Speaker 2: it more and more good stuff. And if we next
Speaker 2: week also will be devoted to Rabbi Mazous a number
Speaker 2: of interesting stuff. And then we'll turn to some new
Speaker 2: figures and wait till you get your official character. We're
Speaker 2: coming to some great stuff from him as well. So
Speaker 2: let me take the questions and comments. We've gone over
Speaker 2: time a bit. Let's see Susanna says that how skullar
Speaker 2: change oshka attitudes towards the grammar, if I'm not mistaking,
Speaker 2: absolutely correct. They they even gave the example. They said
Speaker 2: that we used to be able to offer a sacrifice
Speaker 2: on a bama, but when the uh now we can't.
Speaker 2: Same thing with ascala. We said, when the ascalo used
Speaker 2: to be kosher, when the musculium started doing it, it's
Speaker 2: non koshi. But today there's no more musculine, so then
Speaker 2: no one's doing that the mosculium. We're saying, you don't
Speaker 2: need to learn gamor it's better to learn tanach than
Speaker 2: diktu is just diktok. They stopped the Ashgarism, stopped learning
Speaker 2: tanachhirsh and in the nineteen letters he attacks this idea,
Speaker 2: what he calls misguided, that you shouldn't have to learn
Speaker 2: tanaka anymore. But this it became popular that we don't
Speaker 2: need to do that. But today then these people don't
Speaker 2: exist anymore, so we should. That's therefore, in the Ashgnastic
Speaker 2: world even you have a return to tiktook and things
Speaker 2: like that. Mckelman says, the auditor just speaking hebrewsning in
Speaker 2: studying tanach. Yeah, this was all because of the the
Speaker 2: hoscalo a bar meant the common uh, the common pronunciation
Speaker 2: of checker and MSR wrong should be switched. David the
Speaker 2: boxer turned entrepreneur actually a fall helper, wasn't a boxer.
Speaker 2: He was a wrestler, although if you read all the
Speaker 2: essays on him, it says he didn't want to do
Speaker 2: fake wrestling, even though that's all this is all fake wrestling.
Speaker 2: He would actually do what he wanted to do, even
Speaker 2: if he's supposed to take a dive, if he didn't care,
Speaker 2: and it was all yes, so he came to America.
Speaker 2: It was all fake, but he refused to go along
Speaker 2: with it. So apparently with him there was half real,
Speaker 2: half fake. Well okay, now I didn't say Shacker, not
Speaker 2: scheckermet Well you asked what about the rule of a
Speaker 2: good question of segolio? So now I have my dictionary
Speaker 2: here because he'asier to look up this and show you, uh,
Speaker 2: we actually do have my singer here Mslamuna. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: have a prayer book here. I got the Moser here,
Speaker 2: the Burnbaum Moser. So let me look in myriv on
Speaker 2: Russia shown up. If you look at ms ms this
Speaker 2: is to who is writing up. I don't even need
Speaker 2: to look I should look down. Susanna pointed out, it
Speaker 2: has a hot tuff segal, not a segal. So there
Speaker 2: you go. A hot touff segal is really a cheval.
Speaker 2: So I'm sorry Susannah for not reading the next thing
Speaker 2: I wanted. If I have to pull it off my
Speaker 2: tough Uh. Yes, So it's not a check here it is. Uh.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't say you can't say she here. Check are
Speaker 2: is like any other word dego. They all have the
Speaker 2: uh it's the told me to l But ammet. It's
Speaker 2: a met because it's not. It's not a segal, So
Speaker 2: there you go. Uh, Barry says my mother. Oliver sh
Speaker 2: Shan told me how she met father young Israel dances.
Speaker 2: I met people I met one person particularly told me that,
Speaker 2: and many others told me about people they know. Yes,
Speaker 2: that was that was the era. I don't want to
Speaker 2: say it. People Ramas graduates will be upset. Ramas actually
Speaker 2: had you see Jeffrey Garox's book on Rama. They had
Speaker 2: classes into the fifties as far as I know, maybe
Speaker 2: the later social dancing classes you would run the fox
Speaker 2: truck there. They actually had these classes and everybody Ukstein.
Speaker 2: You said he told us similar he did actually to
Speaker 2: bring youws back to Yeah, that's what they did in
Speaker 2: Ramas Borrow, says Ahama Badia. Hold all starting to follow
Speaker 2: reveocef Cairo, Well, yes, we've spoken about this, we've we've
Speaker 2: dealt with it. And that's exactly where Mazusa's point. He
Speaker 2: doesn't think you need to follow uh Reveo saf Cairo
Speaker 2: if you have a tradition in Tunisia. Although in one
Speaker 2: area he actually he went along with Revadia because he
Speaker 2: doesn't think it's such an important thing. And that's with
Speaker 2: standing up for Sara Debros in Tunisia and in Morocco.
Speaker 2: The alster for Sarah Debros or mazusays, now that we're
Speaker 2: in Israel, we can go along with this. It's not
Speaker 2: it's not really a min hug that we have to
Speaker 2: stick with. But others. You're right, Barro says. The general
Speaker 2: phenomenon the coast of you are they need to distinguish oneself.
Speaker 2: There's differences in the monroth Are Swerel. There's fighting to
Speaker 2: Yu and YCT, and it was greater than between Garadi
Speaker 2: and YCT. That is also true the centrist attacks on
Speaker 2: YCT because they feel threatened because it's their territory, was
Speaker 2: harsher than the Haredi attacks exactly. That is true, and
Speaker 2: Suzanna says, you think that the Israel phrmonic is reconsidering
Speaker 2: a decision not to play Wagner's music. They did play Wagner.
Speaker 2: I remember, they know they did play Vagner in Israel
Speaker 2: once you can look it up, and it caused a
Speaker 2: huge controversy over that he was an anti Semit. But
Speaker 2: that's not why they're not playing it. They're not playing
Speaker 2: him because of his connection to Nazi Germany. That he
Speaker 2: was the the the musician laureate I guess you could say,
Speaker 2: and he was symbolic of Nazi Germany. That's the reason.
Speaker 2: There's plenty of other composers who were anti Semites. That's
Speaker 2: not David says, it's a proof text for a Masusa
Speaker 2: assertion at the hatred of Karad the haaradiing is greater
Speaker 2: than hatred the secretorards the Hareading is the mur and
Speaker 2: Psefi in forty ninety the hatred of a tourist scholar
Speaker 2: who abandoned Torah towards tourist scholars is worse than that
Speaker 2: of the amrits the.
Speaker 3: Rabbi.
Speaker 2: I don't know, David, if you're looking in the book
Speaker 2: and the Safer itself, I cite this in the note
Speaker 2: that that's and Rabbi Mazouz himself cites this explicitly in
Speaker 2: another in another place. But but you're right, that's a
Speaker 2: good point that the hatred of the twist scholar there
Speaker 2: who abandoned torah uh Well, Daniel says, in December nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety one, the Israella Pharmat had voted to play Wagner.
Speaker 2: I don't know, actually I take that back what I said.
Speaker 2: I think they stayed. They voted to do it, but
Speaker 2: they never did. That's what it is. And because people
Speaker 2: were starting sending back their season tickets, it was right
Speaker 2: around then in nineteen ninety one that I wrote it
Speaker 2: was such a big controversy, and I wrote to him
Speaker 2: about that. David says that one of our counts is
Speaker 2: chuvash is that Mo who is not a medical training
Speaker 2: not performed Brittany well. And he actually cites a rashi
Speaker 2: that says it's better to be a to have medical
Speaker 2: training on it. But that's an article came out at
Speaker 2: about ten years ago or fifteen years ago, or a
Speaker 2: guy attack you, or Mosha kun it's like a summer reformer,
Speaker 2: and he cites that, and he cites other things where
Speaker 2: Mosha Kunitz was simply like a modern Orthodox type of rabbi.
Speaker 2: He was, and he would be better if a moel
Speaker 2: had who was also a doctor. They don't have to be,
Speaker 2: but if they are, that's even better. Ah So, then
Speaker 2: Michael says, what about pink Foyd's music given Roger Walter's
Speaker 2: Rabbit anti Semitism. Question is, would Ramazouzi even acknowledge that
Speaker 2: you can at the end of days, can you get
Speaker 2: something good out of it? I don't know. Classical music
Speaker 2: has a separate place. The Villainagone said that music is
Speaker 2: a hama. It's one of the hamas. We know well
Speaker 2: Levy tribe of Lavy. We speak about the creation of
Speaker 2: music and arshas Bracy's, but they're not referring to they're
Speaker 2: not referring to I guess modern pink Foy type music.
Speaker 2: We're talking about, you know, great music. I think David
Speaker 2: says roots up heres at least three times in the
Speaker 2: hummage let her another than the v But in that
Speaker 2: in that way, in that exact same form in place
Speaker 2: of Levad. It has to be used in place of
Speaker 2: Levad David. That's what we're talking about, not let's say
Speaker 2: outside in the sense outside, but separated from Levad alone,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And okay, and let me point
Speaker 2: out one thing. I because I can't get rid of
Speaker 2: my gears of the Ancusa. I grew up always saying
Speaker 2: Sampson Rafo Hirst and shim Shown Ralfa Hirst, because after all,
Speaker 2: the name is shim Shown. But the truth is, and
Speaker 2: I heard this years ago when it never really stuck
Speaker 2: with me, but I recently heard it again by the
Speaker 2: authority that Rabbi Hamburger passed on to me by one
Speaker 2: of our listeners. His name really isn't Shimpshal, even though
Speaker 2: in Israel today is called Shimpshow. His name is Shampshal.
Speaker 2: That was his That's how he was called up to
Speaker 2: the Torah. Now you're gonna say, well, Shampshow isn't a name, Well, uh,
Speaker 2: it's it's not a Hebrew name. It's a Hebraic type
Speaker 2: of name. But we have all sorts of names that
Speaker 2: are wolf people called to the Torah. Ze wolf wolf
Speaker 2: isn't the name either, And we have these names that
Speaker 2: are my mo The Rumbum's father's name is Mimol. My
Speaker 2: moone is not a Hebrew word, but that's his name,
Speaker 2: and that's what he was called up to the Torah.
Speaker 2: They didn't have so Rev. Shimpschen Hersh's name is Shampshaw.
Speaker 2: So from now on, if I can remember, I'll say Schampschon.
Speaker 2: It's not just that in Germany he's saying it. That's
Speaker 2: what they gave him, Why they gave him. We haven't
Speaker 2: yet been able to determine why it's it became that
Speaker 2: other than that's just what it became in Germany. Germany
Speaker 2: had some interesting names. So David says, Wagner was played
Speaker 2: until the Even nineteen eighty one and a Holocaust survivor
Speaker 2: storm the stage. But I was not That wasn't what
Speaker 2: I was referraid to this before my time. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: And David says that that no, when hoots is used earlier,
Speaker 2: I wasn't clear when I said. I don't think I
Speaker 2: was clear. I was making it seem like huts never
Speaker 2: appears what I meant to say, It never appears as
Speaker 2: as I'll show you just the let us will be
Speaker 2: the last thing, as levade here it is. You can
Speaker 2: check it out later, levade Utz. And then he goes
Speaker 2: on to explain that whole thing. So the only place
Speaker 2: we find it is in Cohlis. So thank you all,
Speaker 2: and please correct me if I say again, but by
Speaker 2: ships and Raphael Hirsch is a shamption. In Germany they
Speaker 2: would call him. Even the rabbis referred to him as Hirsch.
Speaker 2: They didn't feel that you need to call him Rob
Speaker 2: Hirsch Rothhirsch.
Speaker 3: His name wasn't Rafaul Hirsch either. That was his father's name.
Speaker 3: And when we go to the keV in uh and Frankfurt,
Speaker 3: Benfoul Hirsch's last name was Hamburger. And that's what I
Speaker 3: thought you were going to say. His name was actually Humberger,
Speaker 3: shumpsh whatever, Humburgers. You know, if you remember on the
Speaker 3: kebra it's sham shun a Frankfurter.
Speaker 2: I thought it was Humburger. No, I think it's I
Speaker 2: don't think he ever used that name though.
Speaker 3: No, but on the ke be it says sham shun
Speaker 3: Ben Rafael Hirsch Hamburger was his father. He wasn't for Hurst.
Speaker 2: That was his father.
Speaker 3: And that's also the only grave I'm sure you remember
Speaker 3: the only grave I've ever seen in my life that
Speaker 3: hasn't the bottom tough no study, no, no, no, let
Speaker 3: me non Stadic bade hayt yeah, show was keV.
Speaker 2: There It is Rabbi shamp shown Ben Marin rafull Hirsch Frankfurt.
Speaker 2: Uh the bastin And what were you referring to? Mc killman.
Speaker 3: Okay, look at the bottom, it's non Sadic bade Hay.
Speaker 3: There's no tough, there's no Hey, his wife there was
Speaker 3: no doubt that shames hump Fellers was going to get aiden,
Speaker 3: so they didn't have to write to Hey. That's for
Speaker 3: normal people. But Sam fell remember when when we we
Speaker 3: were there there together on our first trip effort, not
Speaker 3: a first servor trip to you know, our our Germany trip.
Speaker 3: That's where we were and it's pretty pretty mind bogging.
Speaker 3: But his wife is next to him. I seem to
Speaker 3: remember Hamburger, So why did I Why am I getting
Speaker 3: that wrong? But the shesh Yeah. But anyways, a final
Speaker 3: words from.
Speaker 2: Killen.
Speaker 3: Those were pretty much the final words. Okay, tomorrow, I
Speaker 3: mean that's just you know, discuss listened. My uncle was
Speaker 3: also wolf. Wolf that's my uncle who you know, you know,
Speaker 3: you know very well. But what we call him wolf?
Speaker 3: His name is Elvil. But talking about that the name too,
Speaker 3: but that's fascinating with Rafel Hirsch. Anyways, Okay, okay, thank
Speaker 3: you very much. Tomorrow morning. Like I said, right at
Speaker 3: the beginning, Benny Gozon tit at twelve fifteen our regular
Speaker 3: share at the Hill him and that is followed at
Speaker 3: one thirty by Joseph Ruble, kicking off a five part
Speaker 3: series on sheer how she reing?
Speaker 2: Okay, so move on. I think what you're thinking of
Speaker 2: because the reason you thought that is because he was
Speaker 2: born in Homeburg, although I know, but I have a
Speaker 2: grandfather in Frankfurt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's what I thought, that was on the kever.
Speaker 3: But I guess I was wrong, that's what That's what
Speaker 3: I thought. But I clear I remember that nich without
Speaker 3: the hey, and of course that it's his Oh.
Speaker 2: Hold on, hold on, Bark's Bark's correctly pointing out something
Speaker 2: I will make mistake on the kever itself.
Speaker 3: Uh, let's go back to the kever and blow it
Speaker 3: up and see what it looks like again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, it's that's I was wrong on what
Speaker 2: I said it's not here. I'll put it for you again.
Speaker 2: Hold on a second, I'm pulling it up. Where are
Speaker 2: we here? There we go. Yeah, it's not uh, it's
Speaker 2: it's paypay. There sends for Frankfurter. That's his grandfather's name,
Speaker 2: Frank Pay. It doesn't mean Frankfurt. You know, he was
Speaker 2: rabbi and Frankfurt. They're attaching his name to him, but
Speaker 2: he was never he never wrote it by that name.
Speaker 2: But he never wrote anything but that was his his
Speaker 2: grandfather's name. I don't even know if his father used
Speaker 2: the name. Hey paypay you see after hersh it says
Speaker 2: ape go it on a little bit. I just want
Speaker 2: to see the rest of it. That's our first was Frankfurto.
Speaker 3: That's very and it said I remember he died on
Speaker 3: a Friday, I think on December thirty first, if I'm
Speaker 3: not mistaken, eighteen eighty eight. It says when he buy
Speaker 3: the name is buried on the Sunday.
Speaker 2: Is that there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no about the batemay le ma.
Speaker 2: You know he died.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's his wife the next day.
Speaker 2: He's very gimbl right, Okay, So thank you Boru for that.
Speaker 2: That it's a that you're right they're putting Frankfurter, but
Speaker 2: I don't know. As far as I know, Maybe our
Speaker 2: Washington Heights person can help us. I don't think he
Speaker 2: ever wrote called himself that, and I don't know if
Speaker 2: his father ever did, but that's what's his grandfather's name.
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