Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the six hundred and
thirty fifth episode of the Geek First podcast. I am
the clown Prince of podcast Trust Now, and I'm joined
by Shut the Fuck Up Ricky.
Speaker 2: That's me co Compatser.
Speaker 3: Four once Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: A Mountain. What, Ladies and gentlemen, we are here to
review Joker Folly Dude Now. Obviously very anticipated movie because
the first movie made a billion and it was a
very controversial movie, and then even doing the sequels controversial,
a lot of people saying you don't need a sequel
to get to Da Da. We'll probably talk about news
how it's gonna do or not do box office wise,
because tracking has been going down for it, so I
think some of the word of mouth has been spreading,
but doesn't necessarily mean that we agree. As usual, there's
lots of stuff going on the feed. We usually drop
out the four to five episodes. It's your first time
listening to geek First. Every week there's about four episodes
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us here, So I'm just gonna say go down. The
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on that tair field. Give me your non spoiler thought, o'vistly,
people want to know the thoughts on your first movie.
Dropped the retrospective last week, so you don't need to
do that that's on the feed. What is your nonspoy
thoughts of this film? Non spoilers thoughts.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, obviously everyone knows this is musical going in.
I think that they did a interesting.
Speaker 1: To stop you. I don't know if everyone does know that,
because as we were watching the movie, someone, as the
song too start, went is this a fucking musical? So
I just wanted to throw that out there.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 3: I think that the way that they handled certain songs
in this narrative, actually it worked for me quite well.
I'd say that it didn't feel like, you know, in
most cases the musical, the song kicks in and then
it feels like all like the real world kind of
things going on in the real world just kind of
stop and cease doing what they're doing and lieu of
just the song and the character singing and whatnot. But
in this I like how it felt like the characters
were singing and everyone around them would be like, what
the fuck, Like what's going on here? Like it still
felt like the it felt like it was insane, and
it just it worked for the story, and I can
appreciate that. I felt like it didn't do a lot
at the start, but then we started to get maybe
too many as it progressed, which is a bit of
a con for me.
Speaker 4: But I still felt like.
Speaker 3: There were things with Arthur Fleck that I enjoyed how
they tied in, not just because there's certain moments that
I won't say this, I won't care this one because
that's a spoiler, but there's certain moments where they use
the musicals in the main narrative, and then there's certain
ways that they use the musicals in another way that
showed him kind of delving deeper into his character. And
I like that a lot because every time you get
one of these weird transitional musical numbers like Okay, now
we're going to get like another and amped up version
of like Arthur fleck character, and I like that. It
was super exciting and it was great to see what
happens next is he just keeps going crazier and crazier,
and I.
Speaker 2: Really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it just felt like there was there was
a lot, a lot, a lot, and it happened happening
more frequently as we were going along. But that being said,
I feel that the first one still stands up because
this one, as we get to the third act kind
of unravels and maybe backtracks a little bit of our
character and what they've done in that first one, and
I feel like it's unfortunate.
Speaker 4: And there's just a lot of time.
Speaker 3: Like as much as I like certain things and the
time spent in certain environments in this episode, I do
think it's just a shame that we didn't get I
don't know, a.
Speaker 1: Little bit more episode. I didn't get the joke or
TV show TV Nori this TV movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I think that we should have maybe
got a different kind of narrative with our character or
at least like maybe push things along a little bit further,
because it's a long movie and I feel like it
just felt like it really felt slow.
Speaker 4: And I hate to say that.
Speaker 3: So I know how I feel about like where I
would rank this or what I would give this movie
for a ranking or a rating. But yeah, I'm excited
to talk about Ristrava now. I'm excited to talk spoilers
with you guys and kind of like break it apart
because there's definitely a few moments that I appreciate cringiness
where you're just you're laughing, because man, Arthur Fleck is
he like Joaquin Phoenix plays a damn good, fucking joker.
And on on that note, Lady Gaga is fucking fantastic
in this movie.
Speaker 4: I think she absolutely nailed it. I loved her character.
Speaker 3: I think it was great, and just her dynamic with
Arthur Fleck was I thought their chemistry was fantastic. Uh yeah,
it's just only good things to say about about them
for sure.
Speaker 2: So yeah, mister me, Yeah, I this is an interesting
one because I very much was anticipated for it going
into it. I didn't really know about like the review
trend until, like I think today, honestly, I was talking
to a cowork about it and he's like, it's not
gonna be good like seeing reviews. I'm always I'm always
weird when someone says that, because it's just like, Okay, well,
like you can also see it yourself and like judge
it with your opinion, but you know, I digress, so
like I don't want to I want to say that
deterred my anticipation. But she's like, Okay, this is gonna
be interesting. I knew his musical going into it, so
obviously a lot of people have issues with musicals, and
maybe if people don't know what's the musical going into it,
that could definitely kill a lot of the excitement. But
like all that being said, I had a good time
with this movie. I think that this is a good story.
It's I think, quite messy at various stages, but I
think the stuff that they do well, they do really well,
and like I do really like it as a project
on its own. And this is gonna be weird to say,
but I feel like maybe I would have preferred a
different sequel to the First Joker, and we'll get into
that when we get into that. But yeah, like I
and like it. You can't really have this movie without
what happens in the first movie because it's directly like
you know, and like following up with the events of
what happened there. But it just still felt like disjoint
or like disconnected a little bit maybe from the first
And again, like I'm trying to trying to not say
too much here, so we will detail that we get
into spoiler section. But yeah, no, I think it still
looks really good. Lady Gaga was fantastic for I. I've
seen half of Stars and Fell Asleep, so I haven't
really seen her act that much other than like the
little sequences of that movie that I've seen, so I'll
definitely have to jump in because, like, what's a quick
fire of some of her movies. I know, the House
of Gucci. I heard she's the standout in that Stars Born.
I heard she's the standard in that story, and I
heard she's the standout and you know the sequences that
she's in that show. So that's that's exciting to see.
And I hope she starts to do it. Well, I
hope she starts doing it. I hope she continues to
do these these big films and big project because she
is a very talented lady. And yeah, just it's funny,
like because this is a musical having her like sing
in this next to like Joaquin, I'm like, god damn,
She's just a fantastic singer, and it really just makes
Joaquin look like not that great of a scene. I mean, yeah,
but like it's also Arthur Fleck maybe versus like, Okay,
we have Harley Quinn, but it's still Lady Gaga. Like
she's still got Lady Gaga's voice, and like she she
is a very good singer. So yeah, I I had
a good I had a good time with this one it,
I would say across the board, it very much isn't
as like Dowur as the first and like, I don't
feel like sick to my stomach like throughout this whole
film like I do at various stages of The Joker. Now,
if you listen to the retro that we did for
Joker one, I felt less so that way on my
rewatch of it. But it's also because maybe I knew
what was coming in a certain extent, but it's still
just not a feel good movie and this isn't really that,
but it's still more uplifting overall than maybe uplifting is
a weird it's it's more, yeah, it's it's it's more
heightened maybe than what the first one is. And because
of the musical aspect, there's like reasons for that which
make a lot of sense. But uh, yeah, I still
think there's a lot of good stuff in here. Walking.
I think he's still great, but just not like as
mind blowing as he was in that first movie. And
it's tough to say that when it's your first time
experiencing the actor portrayal that role. And yeah, I don't know,
I'm I'm a little bit torn on like my overall
like what I would I'm not as solid on like
like what Taylor would would would give right now, but uh,
I still had I still had a good time. And
I can definitely see why a lot of people would
might have issues with this, uh because I like with
what Taylor was saying. Like the beginning, I felt like
I felt like we were coming into the dock and
we're looking for a doc to board at, but we
just can't quite decide where we're going, and we're kind
of just stuck in the middle and we're kind of
just spinning around where to go if that analogy makes
it just on the ship, yeah, But but like once
we got going, like like the meat and potatoes of
this story, I did actually really enjoy. So yeah, it's
It's an interesting one for sure, and maybe just not
as clean as a sequel as maybe I would have wanted.
But it's not not a clean character by any means,
So in a weird sense, it fits. And I like
the lot of the supporting characters that was we're in
here and some funny moments that were maybe not so intentional.
But yeah, I think I'm happy with that overall right now.
And music music was fantastic. I love the soundtrack of
this movie. A lot of just songs I knew of,
but again, like having them come through Lady Gaga's mouth,
it's just like, oh my gosh, this is like fuck,
this is this is beautiful, beautiful sounding, and some really
great visuals. So yeah, overall, definitely positive for me. Thumbs up.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is gonna be an interesting one for me
because I I'm somebody that even on that first review
we did, or I did with Dylan and Briggs, I
think they were both in the camp you leave it
as one undone, and I know a bunch of people
that you'll leave it as one undone, And I was
always in the camp like you gotta do a sequel,
like because the money, but like, I think there's lots
of potential here. And even when we got those trailers,
I was like, Okay, they're doing a lot of the
ideas that I think would be the great, like the
Route to Go, and I think they touch on that
a little bit, but it is that risk of a
joker might just be that lightning striking in a perfect situation.
Because this Yeah, I was very surprised by this movie
and oh I don't know what the best way to
describe it is. I think for pros is I would
much rather still watch this. This is nowhere a fail.
So there's my spoiler for a minie of the ranking there.
It's nowhere to fail because cinematography, beautiful looking film, multiple
shots throughout this just look great. Acting by both people
are fantastic at the same time. I think Krikulan's right
where Walking's like, he's great in this, but he's maybe
not got as good of a scene. And I think
there's something in the third act he could have had,
but they kind of whether it's his choice or someone
else's choice, kind of ruined that. And then I think
Gaga is good in this, but I wanted more of her,
and I don't like I don't think when we come
to Golden Geeks there's like a scene I can throw
at you to be like, oh, that's why she should
get nominated. I think she was just consistently good. But
I thought Harley Quinn would be a bigger aspect of
this movie, but I could never because I would much
rather watch this over. I'm sorry if you like any
these films, but like Blue Beetle or Shazam two or
Black Adam or the Marvels or I'm trying to think
of another like mid tier Marvel movie or like a
Black Widow. Like there's so many just comic book movies
that just exist to fuel the machine and make money.
And of course, like no doubt, they all got paid
like fifty million twenty five, Like they did this sequel
for the money, right, But that's all I would, that's
what you do. So for me, there's way more interesting
things in this than a lot of other comic movies.
So I'll take this any day over a lot of
like let's just pump this out and it's like a
generic origin story with a few things changed. Right. But
at the same time, now seeing this, I don't think
this movie should happened. And I can go back to
twenty nineteen tracks and say, you know what, I think
you were wrong. I think this movie has some good idea.
I think there's some good scenes in there. I already
talked about the other stuff. I think it is a
very messy movie when it comes down to the script.
I think the script is the biggest issue here. They're
throwing out a lot of themes and they're throwing out
themes that I can still detach it, and I will
wait a little bit. But I think there's stuff they
throw it here that Linger or Teeter or just full
on do hurt the first film, and it makes it
feel like, oh, like you're kind of going back on
a lot of stuff. And now when I watch again,
i'll space them out. But I don't know. I will
watch this again in the near future because Emily didn't
get to see it, but before the plan was, oh,
I'll see it, and then the following weekend we'll go
see this. I could not sit in the theater again
for this. This was way too slow for me, and
I'm some of that like slow stuff. A lot of
this was a slog and I think it was just
the pacing. I think, even though Joker One is a
slower movie, that pacing I think is very well done.
Between life stuff, the Murray stuff, the crime stuff. I
think it has a good flow. This is just kind
of all over the place. The music numbers just sometimes
come out of nowhere. That's the other thing too, where
I'm not a musical guy. I could have cut at
least three songs in here. There was a point where
a character says like, oh, stop singing, just talk. That
was me about halfway through this movie. I this was
a musical where I can count on the hand musicals
I love that aren't Disney. Throw Disney out because that's
a different thing, right, like Ala La Land, even like
Greece and like was it Rocky horror picture show? Like,
there's aspects of that I like, but it's the songs.
I'm not saying the music was bad, but I agree
with Taylor that I like some of the function of
how they use the musical stuff, but it's just maybe
was too much, and there were a few times where
it would just randomly just come in. They're like, well,
let's just PLoP it right here. Sometimes it felt very natural,
and sometimes just felt well, we haven't had a musical
number in a while, so I think this movie would
probably be better if you took all that out, even though
the art design and some of that stuff is really
well done. So yeah, I think the other thing is
too that it's I was with the movie primarily for
the I'd say the first act and half so maybe
interesting entire first half. I think it starts to go
off the rails a little bit, and then I think
the third act is a is a big mess. I
think the third act they did not know how to
end this, and I think there is about five things
where it's like a ooh ooh. But I could just
feel that score in my head, like drop in like
a fly. Like I was like, oh, it's probably here, Oh,
it's probably here, and then it's like boom boom boom.
I was like, oh, man, but there's still some good,
like unintentional dark humor. I laughed. So I will watch
this again in the future, I think, But I it
won't be like I said, not counting the rewatch with Emily.
It won't be a long time where Joker won I
have the need, not the need, but I'll I could
easily plug that in, like oh, I want to watch that,
but I'm I'm curious how this one's gonna age. But
I think it's gonna age poorer. And I just think
there's just a lot of ideas here that aren't flushed out.
And I just don't know what necessary happened between one
and two, and that's where it's like, Okay, it's one
just a lucky thing, right, or maybe they did say
everything they needed. I disagree because I think they touched
on some things in here that I would have wanted
the Sea expanded on, but I didn't go that route.
That's fine, So we get judged on the movie they
gave me, and the movie they gave me I think
is a well made, messy painting. That's the best way
I'd say. It's like you get the best artists in
the world and it's like, paint me a mess. It's okay,
I'm gonna pay a mess. And not saying that Tom
philps is the best artist in the world, but I
just mean there's some visual and film stuff that does
made quite well. So anything else non spoilers, okay, So
we're gonna get into it. So if you've not seen Joker,
we will be back after this ad break with spoilers.
So you've been warned and we're back. So where fuck
where do we want to start with this one.
Speaker 2: It's agree just the idea maybe of it being something
that I agree with the statement I think there is
a lot of stuff in here that actually hurt the
original film. It's funny when we're talking when we're doing
the retro and just talking about like Zazzi beats his
character and just the unknown of really what happens with that?
And then here we are it's like, oh no, she's
she's just fine, And that kind of just crossed that
off and a lot of that mystery and intrigue now
of me watching that first film. It's not really a
talking point anymore, right, it's not like, oh, what do
you think happened here? And like you can kind of
discuss that with people. Well we just we just know,
like he just left and there's nothing more to it,
even just the whole like insanity factor that he had,
Like like it just seemed like he was a very
different joker at the start of this film or Arthur Fleck.
I guess you could make like the statement there, but
you could maybe make the argument that it's because he
is just medicated up now and he is just laughing
at like uncomfortable moments anymore. It's just at the start
of the film, it just felt like a very different
Arthur Fleck. And I felt that way until like honestly,
until he kind of starts getting more into like the
joker vibe again, and then he starts getting like the
crazy laughs back and again, Like you can make the
arment it's it's because he's not taking his pills anymore,
like the conversation with Harley. But yeah, I just was that,
like right out of the gates, that was kind of
noticeable to me. And that's when I'm like, Okay, this
is this doesn't feel like it does pick up right
after the events of Joke, even though he's in prison
for shooting Murray, and it's it's just it is a sequel,
but it just feels like it's it is its own
thing in a certain sense. And I think because I
was thinking that, I kind of just put myself in
that mindset and maybe it allowed me to enjoy it
more because I wasn't really holding onto that. But you know,
when we get to like the ending and the third
act and his decision for what he does, I really
didn't like that like at all. So I kind of
just was sour, especially with the third act of the
first film and how he he goes through the whole
evolution of becoming the Joker. He just kind of throws
out in the trash by the end of this movie,
and I was left really disappointed by the third act
of this film, even though overall I still enjoyed it.
But yeah, it's it's unfortunate whenever you have a sequel
that does bring down the quality of that first film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a de evolution of the character because
I like the beginning of I can buy that he's
drugged up. Maybe I'm a new meds. That's fine, He's
you can see Arthur's there. But he's like even when
they do that first interview with him, because he's on
trial obviously, and it's a debate of okay, as he's saying,
is he not? His lawyer is trying to argue for
split personality, and when they interview him the first time,
he's like very quiet and he doesn't really have any
personality and he's just kind of like a like a
lobottomized version of himself. And I was completely fine with that.
And it's like hardly doing the whole you know, gunshot
to head like kind of wakes him up a little.
And then he decides to stop taking his pills and
we go down the rabbit hole. But like, this is
where I'll have to think more about. I think there's
two things they do here with the whole Joker thing,
but the third act there's lots to talk about. But
when he he becomes the lawyer, and I like the
consistency of when he's office pills, he kisses his lawyer
multiple times. It's like when he was on the talk
show and he kiss like that lady doctor. It's like
he gets more inappropriate. But that's where for me, I
guess it just I don't think it a lot of
those tracks, because the whole point of a lot, like
Harley Quinn Gauga is trying to get the joke out
of the way, right, like saying, you don't need her yet,
da da da? They're who are they here to see you?
Get dada da? And finally he snaps his that's it,
this bullshit. I need to represent myself. But he does that.
He puts on this whole show trying to get to himself,
and I just don't think they earned the Well, you
know what, I'm actually not a joker. I'm Arthur Black,
and I made some mistakes and I just want a
second chance. I don't think that was earned at all.
I don't think that. I think that hurt the first
one for me because I thought the whole point of
the first one was to show how could this situation,
a real world situation create the joker. Right, it's not chemicals,
it's not whatever he Fledger is, which we'll talk about
a little bit later. Whatever he Fledger is, It's okay,
what could we put what type of society could we
put a character in there? Right? And for him to say,
I'm not the joke, I'm just Arthur Fleck. I think
I get what they're trying to do, but I and
it is. Arthur Fleck is a at times sympathetic character.
But to me, that was the point in the first one,
is that character eventually goes to a certain place that
you can't follow. And I don't think they hit upon
enough that if he was really like I really want
my man's I really want, Like he didn't want to
be the joker at the beginning of this film, but
it just felt like it was he was being drugged
by because he's in prison, not because like, hey, that
I went down that route and I can't go back there.
He seems like he's wanting to get out and he's
liking having Lee around and everything. So I think for
me that really hurt that he kind of became Arthur again,
and I just felt like it's it's too late for
that I think that that's that ship has sailed, and
I don't think it was earned in the movie, especially because,
like I said, there's just multip times where it feels
like Arthur's wanting to become Joker again. So I think
it was whatever they were trying to do there was
not fully well executed, and like I said, hurts the
first one because now it's like, I'm fine if he
were to do the whole because the debate is if
he slip personality, you know, I've I would have been
fine if he would have said, hey, you know what,
it wasn't the system, it wasn't the pills. I'm not sick,
Like I'm just a fucking murder and a bad person.
I'm using this all his excuse, But it was their
verse of like, well, you know, you know, I might
be a little sick and it might be this, but
I was still, like he said, like I'm in a
bad place in my life, but I'm not the Joker.
I'm still Arthur flex. So yeah, I really did like that.
And there's other things in the third act I did
not like, but that was probably the biggest thing in
this film I did not enjoy. And then even stuff
that they do with it after I don't think they
paid it off well. But yeah, what are your thoughts.
Speaker 3: No, I'm pretty much on the same boat as you.
I don't think that they earned that kind of transition
for our character at the end, especially because yeah, this
is the first movie. Ah it sets up everything so well,
and it just I feel like Arthur Fleck is a
joker becoming more and more insane, and yeah, getting off
of his meds, and like I said before, using the
musical numbers each time he breaks off into this different
theme with Harley and it's just some like TV show,
sitcom like musical number, which is great.
Speaker 4: I love those transitions.
Speaker 3: And afterwards, when I would conclude, you just you see
Arthur Fleck and he starts to smile and then he
fires his lawyer or he just like does some other
crazy shit and it just shows him kind of like
finding himself and I really really like that, but just
for the last fifteen minutes for him just to like, no,
I'm not that, like, I'm not a joker. And then
Harley Quinn walks out and then you know, bomb goes
off and Batman shows up and just kidding.
Speaker 1: It's just come with me.
Speaker 4: It's really it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 3: I think that it does so much damage to our
there's so much damage to our character in this movie
and attroactively in the first movie too, So it's such
a shame. I think it's a really, really big shame.
But again I see, like, Okay, well, this is a character.
His actions are meant to inspire the creation of the
real joker, I guess, which we'll talk about later.
Speaker 1: But uh, fucking well.
Speaker 2: I hate that so much. And I got back Shay's like,
how's the movie. I'm like, it may be so mad
at the end because that fucking thing.
Speaker 1: Madison and Taylor in the car. Todd Phillips had said
that about the first one right when they of course,
because the talk was you don't recall that's when passed
I was getting cast and was like, the idea of
quldy be that I do wish there was a Actually
I don't because we got Barry Keegan and I'm very
excited to see what Barry's gonna do. So I take
that back. But back then I was like, yeah, put
them together walking and passing, like what a combo? Now, right,
But I'm happy where we're going with Barry Uh. He
had talked about how well this could be the Joker,
maybe this inspires the real Joker. I fucking hate that.
I think it was just like better as like a
and I guess that's a problem with the sequel. I
this sounds mean, but I gave him and Scott Silver
too much credit because I did not think he would
just go for something as obvious of like, hey, I
floated the idea of this might not be the real Joker,
might inspire the Joker, but to really nail it in
people's heads, I'm gonna literally fucking do it. I'm gonna
show you that, well, this isn't the Joker. You know,
it's gonna this guy's gonna kill him and then he's gonna,
you know, give us the origin of Heath Ledger's Joker
as he cuts his mouth open, which I don't think
that's what they're doing, but I was like, oh man,
not to invoke Keith Ledger's Joker, and that moment was
a little bold. Again, I don't think they did that,
but you have to, like there's a line there of
there they both cut their cheeks open to make a
permanent smile, right, and I get what they're doing with
even talking about the death, which I think we all
knew was gonna happen or we thought was a very
likely possibility. I think with the walking speech at the
end with Harley with this guy with the guys that
kidnap them from the bombing, another theme that I think
he's trying to do is like fans feeling like they
own something or whether it's just in general in politics,
like owning something, because this idea that he doesn't want
to be joker anymore, but these guys kidnap him, like, no,
you're still gonna be joker. You're a joker. So I
think that was his way of trying to say something
about fan toxicity. And along those lines, they said even
can be real world stuff, but I think it's introduced
so late it doesn't work. It's kind of like in
the first one where I don't have this problem, but
all of a sudden when Arthur makes a joke and
Robert Harre's like, that's not funny, Arthur, you can't say that,
And Todd Films was trying to like comment on like
Calmedy nowadays, but it's like, oh, you didn't really set
that up, like Arthur's problem was that, like people don't
find him funny. It was like he's a lot of issues.
So I feel like this was the same thing of
that's something interesting to tackle of fans feeling like they
own an ip A character. Jokeer, right, we talked about
the Star Wars like okay, I own joke or Harley
owns Joker, and once it's gone, we're mad. Right, It's
almost like the sequel of like, hey, like you should
make more, we want more Joker. Well, here it is.
But I think the problem is like I don't just
don't like that ending at all, of like, oh, this
inspires another Joker. It really had like that's the best
because I thought we had this rumored for ages and
I'm not sure if they cut it, and I wasn't
gonna bring it up. There were rumors a long time
ago that Bruce Wayne was supposed to be in that
asylum with them, and I thought that's what this was
gonna be. And I would have been fine with it
if like some people would have been mad and it's
like a Batman killing thing. But I was like, if
they revealed this guy's Bruce Wayne, he's getting to pay
back and he's all fucked up. I can see the
line being strung together, but just that it's a random guy.
And I know someone's gonna say, well, it's not random
because like, well, you know, Arthur's actions inspire other people
and he took that away. But still it doesn't matter.
It's just some random fucking inmate that knifsome My last
pot with throw a third to you guys is to me.
I said this to mass and Harley killing on the
steps would have been a thousand times better than.
Speaker 2: It would have fit so well, right, it would have
gone to that same dream sequence of her shooting him.
You could had the exact same like moment where it
goes from him stabbing and then it goes back to
her on stage with him bleeding. I was like, Shocklin
didn't have.
Speaker 1: The guys on the stairs, which are iconic for that character, right,
And that's where it's like she at least I would
buy that of like she felt betrayed. She was trying
she fell in love with an idea, right, and she
even says that like, oh the idea is gone. You
said you're not joker. So she felt so betrayed by
this guy, almost fooled, right, like he is, you know,
a scheist, like he pulled the wool right, It's like, yeah,
I am the Joker. Oh well really I'm not. I
was hoping that he was going to meet her on
the steps and said that he just like lied and
he was doing as an act to like continue on
because that doctor they are doing the Joker thing where
he's like, I don't think he's crazy. I think he
just acts crazy. I thought, oh, they're introducing this, this
could be something really interesting, but no, it was just
I don't even know what Arthur really is. He just
is a guy with a lot of mental health issues.
I guess that you know which he was. But I
thought like the point that he was transitioning into something
else and just accepting some of these baddisms. But yeah,
I think if they're going to do this kill thing
in the whole portraying of Joker, I don't like that.
But hardly that ending with the answer is right there
and they missed it.
Speaker 2: That was a major major drop, honestly, Like you have
this asn't as an alternate ending. Maybe you know that's
at least like a week from now or ten years
from now roaming the internet. I think that would be
an interesting idea, but to have it in the main
film it definitely brings down on some points for me
because I was I was really disappointed in the overall
route we were going of him just admitting that, like, no,
this is like there is no joker, it's just me.
It just feels, like you said earlier, it is a
de evolution of the character in my mind, because it
like that first film, as fucked up as it is,
like it's it's beautiful in a twisted sense of where
he gets to when he when he has the music
and the makeup on and the suit, he's doing the
dance on the stairs, like it's just such a big
crescendo moment. And then it seems like we're kind of
deconstructing that in this film, and it's not the whole
film by any means. And that's why, like when we're
in the middle, like I think that's the most fun
of this of like like the what would it be
the second act is the most fun part of this
film for me, of just him interact with Harley and
going back and forth from from the courthouse, and I
was hoping we were going to just be doubling down
on the idea of this joker, and I thought he
was going to escape, and I thought it was going
to be basically him and Harley sailing off theset and
that's just the end of the story. And and we
don't need a third It's just, you know, I guess
we didn't need this film now in hindsight, but like,
like I think that would have been a fun tale,
especially because I did like a lot of stuff going
on in here, and but no, we we wanted to
just change that and no, I don't have to split personality.
This is just who I am, and I'm a murderer
and and that's that and very unsatisfying exit with Harley.
We've already mentioned it. I wish that she shot him
on the stairs. And it's also just like like the
whole idea of like him not actually being crazy. It
just it just seemed like we we like solve that
from the first film, because he had all those like
traumatic child abuse situations that like, yeah, that would leave
someone extremely fucked up and probably with split personality disorder
and there and his lawyers even detailing that like like
like he had this fantasy built up, like it like
it seemed like it was a perfect defense that he
is split personality, and he just throws it out the
trash and starts defending himself, which was fun because because
because he's the joker in the moment right, like he's
wearing the makeup when he's interviewing Gary, and like he
he is just fully off the rails. And I like
how he's kind of going back and forth in that
moment right like like when because he's like got the accent,
and then Gary says something like how could you do
this to me? Like You're the only one that was
nice to me? And he just like snaps and he's
talking as Arthur again and and and like I just
love that sequence because it seemed like a perfect example
that he is actually split personality. But but then we
just kind of say no, no, no, I'm just a
murderer and that's that. And yeah, just really really disappointing
of a third act because of all those reasons I
just listed.
Speaker 1: Taylor gonna goes that joker killer for Halloween this year.
Speaker 3: No, that's uh, that's not my idea of a COSTU.
Speaker 1: Uh sure, yeah maybe.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: The fact that Jarvis he said that people were like
people are thinking or like is the rumor like bat
Bruce Wayne was supposed to be in the asylum and
like are.
Speaker 1: People early on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, crazy guy could have been Bruce Wayne.
Speaker 1: I don't think in this film though. I think if
that was film, they set.
Speaker 2: Up for the Batman who laughs or whatever, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that was either a rumor and
not true at all. It was in the film they
cut it, or they just cut it even before filming.
Speaker 4: But mm hmm, yeah no, I I just think that.
Speaker 3: I mean I already spoke to just Joker and just
what happened with the what about the murder though? Changing
the way he goes out, Yeah, I think that you
guys said it. Him dying on the stairs by Harley
would have been the most ideal because it just feels
like the bomb goes off, he gets hijacked by some
goons and he just wanders around for a bit trying
to get to where he's going. And that said, then
he gets arrested and then we see him die afterwards.
Speaker 2: Also, I got a question just as you're going off this,
I just thought of it, like, so he somewhat escapes
he It clearly isn't the orchestrator of his of his escape,
but he still escapes while he's getting his his verdict
or whatever for his sentence scene, and then he and
then he's back in jail and Arkham later on what
would happen in that case if like like when you
just go straight to the chair because it's like, hey,
they found him guilty. He's on trial for the death penalty.
Speaker 1: And always do the death penalty though, but is.
Speaker 2: There like another trial or is it just like a
waiting period?
Speaker 1: There could be because they might have thought he did
the bomb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I don't know, it's just like and
then like the guards are orchestrating his death with this
fucking psycho joker new joker guy. Like it just it
just didn't really make sense. That's ahead no, I was.
Speaker 1: Just gonna say. And it's also just weird too. Of
I get the speech because he never says this, because
he does say he wants another chance, but it's just
also weird for me to talk about how he feels
bad about killing these people who made these mistakes, but
then to also like want to run away. It's like, well,
you can't have the character have the sympathetic speech, like
I fucked up and that should be the moment like
I should have the death penalty, give me the chair.
But it's just like, oh, I'm freely, like we can go.
It's like what, like, so, what's their point of speech?
Like I guess in his mind he feels, you know,
and that is the problem, right because anyone can say, well,
it's a character with mental health, so like they go
through that, I know. But for me, I felt like
the first film established some guidelines with him. People can't
adapt and evolve, I guess, but I feel like they
still stuck with a lot of those guidelines because he
would act a lot. Look at that interview with Steve Gooden.
I don't remember how Steve Googan. I think it is
his last name. Again a scene that I say that
is awesome. Love that scene. I think this movie has
a lot of great little dark humor moments and just
a moment he's like like starting the interview and like
Arthur's faces halfway in there, same thing like walking in
the trial when he's reacting. Fuck is he funny? Man?
He's so good at that stuff. But that's what I mean.
It's like, oh, he's starting to interview the Joker now
here like that's coming out. Like I said, he kissed
his lawyer before, so he felt like in the first
film the second one, for the most part, there's guy
lines of oh Arthur when he's on meds and when
he's off, but then that speech kind of felt like
he was back on meds. But then again it's just like, well,
what does this character really do? I guess he just
wanted to tell this jury that the Joker doesn't exist.
But I don't know. Taylor, Sorry, I cut you off.
Speaker 2: Steve Coogan, Cogan, thank you. Just think of what is
it the other guys just rolling that movie, the.
Speaker 3: Guy, the the money guy. Yeah, two tickets to see
Oh he's great and that isn't he in Tropics?
Speaker 1: That's make a great movie. Yeah? Yeah, good god, it's
good effects nowadays. Anyways, Sair, we were talking about the
deaths or his death or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think him dying in in Arkham. It's just
a completely underwhelming death. I just don't like it at all.
And it's just I hate that the guards kind of
get the they get they're the ones that come out
on top on this movie, and I don't like that.
I think I think that everything else with the guards
being pissed off at him, and.
Speaker 4: When they were dragging him and.
Speaker 3: Like like like kind of not waterboarding him, but like
roughly like well cleaning his face off and then like
taking his clothes off and then just dragging him and
they just fucking slam him against the wall and it's
that head smack and as they're moving them, he just
like daintly like slaps the card.
Speaker 1: That was so good because they're like, is he knocked out?
Speaker 2: As he passed out.
Speaker 3: The kid like he's he is such a fucking great joker.
But it just yeah, at the end of the day,
with his death and the way they transition everything, it
just feels like Phillips is like, yeah, at the very
end of this movie, we're just gonna undo everything and
just like show that Okay, it's it's inspired the real Joker.
At the end, I just feel like it's just do
is such a disservice to Joaquin Phoenix's character. He's great
and again this is kind of going backwards a little bit,
but just those moments where it get in the musical
sequences where he's in like the courtroom and he's singing
and he's just like he's all jokerized.
Speaker 4: Up and he's just like screaming and yelling and.
Speaker 3: It's he's fucking maniacal. And he takes his fucking the mallet.
I can't remember what it is in the courtroom, the
the gabble. Yeah, he takes it's like a jumbo one,
and he walks up to the judge and just fucking
starts wailing on his head. Like, man, this guy feels
like the fuck girl, like a fucking joker, Like I
love it. So it really is just a shame that
they just they gave up on the character. And that's
gonna be my biggest con is really that that ending
and that third act ever since, Like.
Speaker 4: The explosion was awesome, and I wish that was, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Hardy planned and that he Harley was getting him
out of there, and that he didn't give up on
being the joker. He was going to be the Joker
and this was just this was it and he just
gets off and he's they run off together.
Speaker 1: That would have been great.
Speaker 2: I would love it.
Speaker 4: Give him an anti hero happy ending.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I thought, honestly, when he when he
addresses the jury for his closing statements, I thought he
was actually gonna like rat out the guard like matt
Ee Moody's character and just say, like last night he
like killed this guy and just starts like going in
on just how the whole system is like against everyone
and like like just kind of going back to his
issues that he has in the first film, like with
just nobody cares, Like I guess he kind of talks
about some of those those instances, but yeah, it just
it just leads into like now there's no Joker, and
it's just like, oh wow, like I out of all
the option like avenues we were gonna go. This is
not what I thought was gonna happen, And it's just
not that satisfying. And Ricky just fucking you know, poor Ricky.
He just got strangled and no was gonna know and
the guards are just getting away with it. Then Yeah,
it's just it's it's wasted potential, honestly, is what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's more of them trying to
subvert expectations because you have all the shitty characters in
the first movie kind of get their cup up ands right,
Like you have the the other guy at Pogos who
gives him the gun, who kind of gets them fired whatever.
I'm not saying Jokey should be killing people, but in
his eyes, he kills them, right. And then you got
Murray who makes fun of him. He kills them, even
the mother to extent, you know, which we learn more about. Yeah. Yeah,
But like even in the first one, they don't have
the greatest relationship, where in this one you have I
would argue Lee taking advantage of them. She gets the
upper hand because she just leaves them. Right. You have
the guards who beat them and I think rape them.
I don't know if I'm reading that, but I thought
that's what they did to him, because they took him
in the shower and took off his pants. So it's like,
to me, that's like, there's only one thing they're doing there.
They didn't have to take his pants off. Why is
he just in the drawers now? You know? Well, and
he can't even walk. They have to drag him to
the jail cell. They could just beat him up, but
it was like, I don't know, it felt all that
they take him to the shower, in my opinion, and
then he had no pants on, so and then they
killed the other guy. So then you got all three
of those guards which is funny that there's three of them,
because it's three like the three yeah, the three billionaire
people or whatever, and I'm not sure if there's another one,
but that's the least you could even argue. Like Steve
Googan is like he doesn't really embarrass him, but kind
of a little bit. It's like all these people in
the first movie that okay, you messed with him eventually
came around and got you, and this time that didn't
really happen. They got the last laugh on him. The
guards didn't get any trouble. Lee is I guess free
and also just rich, so he doesn't have I don't
know what she's gonna do now. Maybe she's gonna go
find the fucking new Joker in prison and get him
pregnant by him. And then, like Steve Googan's just gonna
go on and he's like a Murray that's unpunished because
he's trying to take a van to the situation, right,
because Arthur says, like you don't care about me, you
don't care about this. You would actually be asking about
like why I'm changed and how I'm different, how I
want to be a different person, not like talking about
Joker and talking about Lee, like talking about like paparazzi things.
So it was a similar thing but with obviously Murray
had a gun and he killed him and he reined
it back there. So it's kind of like I said,
double where it's like, Okay, all the people that are
shitty to him, they get away, and you know how
he became the joker while he's gonna unbecome the joker
in this movie, which I don't think is like Arthur
Fleck is still like a character by himself. That's interesting,
but as we said, just don't think it's earned and
it doesn't match up with certain things that happens. Again,
why is he run from prison? And even then I
guess his pitch because, like I said, he does not
say that he wants the death penalty his pitches. I'm
not the joker. So if he's saying that, he's just
saying that he's a killer. But he's saying like, oh,
I'm sorry, regret it. I regret it, and I'd like
another chance. But it was like, well, if you're just
a killer, then like you deserve second chance. Many yeah,
like yeah, you just admitted to another one. It's like,
what's your angle? Here, and that's why I was kind
of hoping it was like an act when that therapist
said like, oh, I think he pretends, and I thought, oh,
this would be cool, like he pretends he's sympathetic and
he uses that to get out of the situation somehow.
But no, I guess he was just he was just sympathetic.
Which again when later on it's just a few episodes,
a few episodes, a few twenty fifteen minutes ago, he's
in the prison and all the criminals are losing their mind.
They're yelling, and he's like laughing, but it's not that
like hold back like nervous laugh. It's like the oh
fucking Joker laugh all these people and you're seeing like
how like in an Arkham City Joker gets some goons
because they've all like all the cause of Joker. So
it's like it's not like he's off his meds and
he's like, I don't know, he even fires his lawyer
so he can become the fucking Joker. So it's just
like he's he wants to be the Joker. So it
just doesn't track it. Like I said, it would have
been different than the whole movie. I people are trying
to pull it out of him, and he doesn't want that,
and Harley doesn't want that because even in the first
movie when they say, oh, like, are you wearing that
makeup because the riots, and it says, no, that has
nothing to do with me. So they could have done that.
They could have went the whole time of like, oh,
I don't really want to become the Joker again, like
that's a bad thing, but they didn't. It felt like
he Harley's like, you should go with your meds and
he's like, oh, I already am, like he said in
a way like he was excited about it. So it's like,
I don't fucking know. It's it's this movie makes it
very confusing of what they, you know, want with Arthur
to do. And I think that's not great because even
the first one has mental health, but I think there's
a through line for that character, you know.
Speaker 2: So I feel like the mental health aspect is even
like it's more relevant and maybe that's not the best term,
but it's just executed better. Yeah, Like you know, like
like it is a big shadow over our character the
whole movie, and it's shown that he just doesn't have
the support that he clearly needs like support system. The
city's like taking away these social service from him, and
it's just, yeah, he's he's a murderer and definitely not
a good person. But like you, like we were saying
earlier and even just on the Red sho it's like
the movie still makes you feel for this character because
he is still a human even though he is a
murderer and going through all these things, like he still
was dealt a shitty hand, like he yes, he shouldn't
have been this individual, right, like he was abused as
a child that like he couldn't defend himself and just
thrown in that situation. So you do feel for him
even though he ends up being a murderer. So and
this movie just they just they just don't really do
that at all. But yeah, and then something else that
I found really confusing in comparison to the first film
is the first film there's a bunch of moments where
it's very clearly, well maybe not it's very clearly, but
it's in Arthur's head of things that are going on,
whether it's the relationship with as he beats or his
comedy routine, and it's it's like the trick is kind
of revealed later on the film, so you know exactly
what's happening, and then in this one it I guess
at moments it's pretty obvious when it is a dream
sequence because he's on Broadway or like top dancing with
Harley and he's not.
Speaker 1: Even with people. They're like like sometimes they sing, but
even then, like Tara said, there's characters like shut up
something sing, so you can tell there's times where they're
actually singing out loud. But when they go to a
different world, it's not like with Zazzi Beats. It's more
like the Murray Hallucination when it's like, yeah, you're a
good son, like almost all of them are that movie.
There is no like Zazzy Beats, like.
Speaker 2: All that is yeah, feeling like, oh my god, that
wasn't the case this whole time.
Speaker 1: Which I was worried. When they're talking about the stairwell,
when she's like, oh, the idea is over, I'm like
when she's like, oh, we weren't ever gonna get away,
I'm like, oh, please don't tell me. They're just fucking
in a jail cell somewhere, like talking about what they
would have done, and I'm glad they at least didn't
go that route. But I was worrying it was happening.
Speaker 2: But like in the in terms of Harley, like, did
that really happen that she just got allowed to go
visit him in his cell and they just fucked in
the cell like that was a dream?
Speaker 1: Right? No?
Speaker 2: I think there's some like it doesn't like it seems
like the logistically that is not possible that that would
have happened, that the guards would have just allowed her
to go in there for them to just bone.
Speaker 1: Well, I think because that I think it is the
case because I think the reveal that she has money,
I think that's how that happened. If she paid them off.
That's how I took it. It's like that's how because
even when she goes to see them, the guys say
off the bars, off the bars, that stills like that
would not be allowed in real life of the guy
it's currently on trial. And then the the let's just
say the wife character is scenting and is like all
hugging up on him. So I think that did happen
and we got the most on purpose pitiful sex scene
of all time. Arthur needs to work on his there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just like.
Speaker 1: He's just jumping up like a frog. But that's probably
do it. Other than other than which they made a
little cut of like when the lawyer's time I was
abused and said sexual abuse, they show Arthur's face like
he just flinches quickly and then goes back to drawing.
But other than that, I'm gonna assume that Arthur has
not been with a woman, so that was probably his
first time too. So and uh, and I get. The
thing that I don't know is if she was actually
pregnant or not, because she just said He says like, oh,
we're gonna have a child together, and she just walks off.
So it's like, but the thing I wanted to mention
before I forgot, they did say at the end, before
I got killed, there was someone there to visit him,
and I wonder who it was. We'll never know.
Speaker 2: It's the guard just baiting him to get and then yeah, okay,
it just seemed really orchestrated. And it's not like the
guard came back like are you cold be Yeah, it
could be yeah, And it just seemed like they're distance
away from each other was kind of sketchy, like it
just seemed like a really obvious ambush to me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you're probably right, But I like to
think maybe someone's out there, you know, maybe maybe it's
uh no, say Thomas Wayne, he's dead. I don't know
who it would be. It's Bruce Wayne. Yeah he's waiting. Yeah, Yeah,
what were we talking about, Well, we'll take an ad
break right here and then we'll get back on tracks.
We'll be right back and we're where we want to go.
Speaker 2: Taylor stepped away. We were talking about just like the
mental health aspect and the sex. Yeah, the sex to
put a set.
Speaker 1: How you do it?
Speaker 2: I I was bringing up that I felt like that
scene didn't actually happen and it was his mind even
though it seemed like it was. And then Travis made
the argument, that's probably because she just has a lot
of power and money to pay off the guards to
get in there. Was it obvious for you? Because for me,
I'm like, there's no way that actually happened, Like this
just seems like a total dream. But then they just
for the rest of the film, it's just running with
that like that actually did happen.
Speaker 3: I thought, because yeah, we got the whole fake relationship
and the first one that he was like sleeping, like, yeah.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was gonna be something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then I guess, yeah, I almost thought like
we would they wouldn't necessarily repeat that and we would
get like a resolution quickly about it to see what
was really going on. And I thought for sure, like
when he's having sex with her and like they actually
were doing it, it was gonna cut to like she's
not actually in the room and he's just like having
like on the White House scene exactly.
Speaker 4: But no, he was really hugely doing it.
Speaker 2: So the tool Ship, Yeah, so he was.
Speaker 3: He was really having a having a good time in there,
and uh yeah, I just think she was just an
expert manipulator.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah.
Speaker 3: So just very interesting scene all around with her and
just her obsession with him, and it was just another
another step in the direction of just trying to unleash
him and turn him into a back into the Joker.
But I didn't I didn't believe that she was telling
the truth when she said she was pregnant. It just
seemed pretty pretty suss. But I've agree with you though
in the hallway with his death, you said that you
felt like it was an ambush and there wasn't really
anyone that that he had to.
Speaker 4: Go and meet, like when he's watching the TV.
Speaker 3: And then the main guy who's the main warden guy
walking by like nods his cap towards Arthur, and then
after that you get the other guys saying.
Speaker 4: Oh, in the hallway, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 3: It's just it's all way too set up, like they're
all too chipper with him, and I just feel like
it is a it is like you're leading this guy
to go and meet someone, but you out, you fast
walk and leave him behind, and then you don't go
back to check. Like it's just it's all it's a
lot of suss.
Speaker 2: So yeah, mm hmm.
Speaker 3: I can't remember what the initial question was though after.
Speaker 2: This whatever was, we were just talking about like the
mental health aspect, and right for me, it just felt
a lot more clear and stronger in the first film.
Where is this one. It's just it's it's talked about,
but it's it's not It's not like, I don't know,
I don't want to say, it's not like the main
cove like cloud of the film, but it kind of
is in comparison to the first one in my opinion.
Speaker 3: But I think that's where the musical aspect comes in
to kind of alleviate that you don't feel like it's
as heavy, because you're totally right. The first one you
feel it. It's it's really weighs you down. And that
first one, it is a very heavy film, and you
just you're you're there with Arthur as he's trying to
deal with this mental, this mental his capacity of it,
I guess, just being abused, and just how shitty Gotham
really really is and how badly people are treating each other.
And in this one, you're only getting it from just
the guards. Really, you're not getting it from any other
outside forces.
Speaker 4: Like when you when you see the people that.
Speaker 3: Are in Arthur's life from that first one, the counselor
and whatnot, trying to kind of.
Speaker 4: Be there for him, and he's just back in this.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes she was.
Speaker 3: So you have them, have you have Arthur on that
first one calling them out saying, oh, you guys don't.
Speaker 4: Really care, It's just a job.
Speaker 2: Yeada, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 3: They lightly tiptoed on that in here, mostly just with
the reporter, the tropic thunder guy, just trying to conduct
the interview when and Arthur's like, you know, you guys
want to.
Speaker 4: Keep focusing on the past. We should be talking about
right now. Yeah, yeah, YadA.
Speaker 3: But it's a shame that they didn't really explore that
more the fact that like, hey, there's there's a lot
of bullshit going on, Like you said, Travis, you thought
that they would kind of highlight in the courtroom or
you thought that from maybe they would talk about the
guard or what was that you.
Speaker 1: Kirklelh And I brought that as Kirk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just i'd like and just talk about the
shittiness and because yeah, they even did it on the
Murder of the Franklin Murray Show on the first one
as well, just what he's talking about, how people are
horrible in the city and yadda, YadA, YadA, And I
feel like that is just a missed opportunity. They didn't
really reinforce that. To your your credit, Kurklum, what you
were saying, and just how this compressive to the first one,
didn't really do a lot on the topic of the
mental health and just that aesthetic.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it's interesting because I think you're right with the
musical aspects they do supplement it a little bit, but
I think it's it's kind of all over because I
feel like it's a bigger deal, like him going off
as medicine the first one big deal. We're in the
first acts, like, hey, I'm off the Mets and you're
kind of off the races, right, so that's not as
big a deal. And I feel like they try to
do the split personality thing, but they go in and
out on that because you most of the time it's
I don't know, because even I guess for me another
thing that like it's a I guess a minor critique,
but not really. I guess it's a big one for
my personal liking. I didn't mind a little bit of
walking doing like the Southern lawyer sort of gimmick for
a bit, but I wish he did it for like
twenty five percent and then gone to like joker mode,
because as we talk about, when he is on the
stage with Murray, he feels like a different character and
we didn't really get to see that character again this
go around. In my opinion, like that version of him,
And he even said, I think that's what we get
because he's like, oh, I was gonna sit down and
just go off on you guys. But that's when he
talks about how he's you know, not the joker. But
I kind of was missing that, so I wish that
kind of happened. You could have had a Harley and
like getting all excited by that because I liked it enough.
But eventually, especially once it's seeing gout more serious, it's like, okay,
you can drop the like the accent, but yeah, so
I I think the mental stuff is still around, but yeah,
it's definitely not as strong, and it's it's just a
bit more. It's like we said about the ending, it's
just a bit more convoluted this go around, because they
have stuff where, you know, Puddles is saying you were
nice guy, and you know, you're all nice to me,
so this messes me up and you can see him
kind of like breaking a little bit. But then that's
where I almost needed, like the entire trial to be
like that is. It's kind of it's like that one
conversation with that guy just maybe flips him and decides, oh,
you know what, maybe I'm not a joker, maybe I'm
off for a fuck. It's like, well, Gary was still
around in the first movie, and you still flipped and
you went through your shit, right, so it's not like,
why what about Gary this time? Is doing anything doing?
Especially because Lee's there, which again good humor going on
on with Lee where he's always looking for her lawyers
in the middle of a big depusition, very serious, and
then he passed her note can least sit close.
Speaker 2: Right about to go up to do it. She's like
got all of her notes right in her mind, last
note things she's seen like can you get her a
better seat tomorrow?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that stuff really good. I liked it.
I can't I still laughed a lot of this on
like purpose stuff. I don't think there's anything like oh
so bad I laughed at but yeah, and good job.
I like that actress of place lawyer. She's been in
tons of stuff. But uh yeah, I thought that flip
of him when he was gonna be his own lawyer
was gonna be really exciting. But I don't think. I
don't think I got I didn't get like my like
a joker scene, which again I think the ending is trying.
Did you guys feel that at all with Lee and
the two other jokers that they're trying to do some
sort of messaging about like owning certain things, or was
I reading too much into that like an idea of
the joke because they kidnap them, they're like, I don't
know what their plan was, but I think they're gonna
like force them to still just be the joker. I
don't know what their those two goons plans was.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really good observation and one that
now that you mentioned it, it's like, oh, yeah, that
actually makes a lot more sense in hindsight. Maybe I'm
just a little bit too smooth brain to notice that
in the actual film, but no, like it totally makes
a sense, especially with like maybe certain people idolizing let's
just say a celebrity for example, and it's just like
I love this person in this movie, so therefore they're
my messiah, and like I love this character that they portrayed,
so this must be them. And then that's probably like
they're just playing a character, right, Oh yeah, especially if
you throw in a mental health aspect, like a lot
of unhealthy individuals would think that that is reality and
like just get obsessed with it. And I think that
parallels very well with this Arthur Fleck story. Even from
the first film right of him just looking at Murray
as being the father figure that he was, but when
he actually meets him, he's just a total asshole to
him and just not really a good person of just
bullying someone on stage just for his own fame and clout.
So yeah, I think it like as a whole of
just both these movies, it definitely is something that is
relevant with what did you even say the term it's
getting late now, I don't just toxic fandom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it has maybe a bit to
do with like the first movie, to remember everyone was
worried about, like oh what, like maybe it's they're trying
a way to be like, hey, if you didn't get it,
like Joker, don't cheer for Joker, like he's not a
good guy. And for me, I was always annoyed because
I just thought like the message of that movie was
not to for anyone that was like, oh, well, we
got to worry about like making a mentally ill patient,
you know, become the Joker and us you know, believing that. Again,
I still think in that movie they show Okay, the
system failed them, but he also did some things along
the way too that like kind of helps that. So
I guess I never took that and maybe that's where
they were trying to take of it. I never took
that as like, oh well that's why. Especially just even
him doing that speech about I'm not the Joker is
almost like it makes us mad, and maybe that's the
design purpose is like yeah, you Joker fans, you're gonna
be mad this because you want to be Joker, but
he's not the same way, like we wouldn't want to
you to be Joker. But it's like yeah, but like
I think you went down that route already. But I
think they're trying to get some there. And again I
think there there's a story, there's a storyline aspect you
can do with that, but I think just attack it
on the third act is maybe a little too late.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you want to comments or anything we just mentioned?
I was just gonna go in a different direction. No, no,
go for you perfect. I was gonna ask you specifically
Travis this Taylor. Of course you can comment if you want,
but just the whole idea, well, you're the you're the
clown Prince podcast. I got asked, I'll see you for
the idea of what the Joker is and his basically
being the complete opposite of what Mattman is, right, and
just that's what makes that dynamic so intriguing and how
it's you know, the great Keith Ledger said in the
Dark Knight film, it's like an impossible oh my gosh,
what is it? An immovable object? Meaning in course, and
just that whole dynamic of like and you know, you
can make the arguments that, especially for the first film,
that it's not really a joker film, like like it's
an Arthur Fleck tail because like Arthur Fleck, he he
did get Delta a shitty hand and a lot of
the system that did fail him, even though you know
he he met halfway and then committed these.
Speaker 1: Murders and even mits that it's him in this movie, right, Yeah,
he just says that he had control and stuff.
Speaker 2: So and you do feel for him at many times,
Like is that a trait that you like, you're a
stereotypical joker you would want to have?
Speaker 1: No, I think people don't like that because I think
people also brought which I guess is fair of Hey,
I see this and not that it happened, right, but
I see this guy his struggles. Why do I want
to see Batman beat the shit out of him when
I know he had like abusive home stuff. So I
think it only works here. I think most time Joker,
I think the version people like the most is the
you don't know his name, you don't know where he
came from. He's just like in Enigma, right. I kind
of like a little bit of that. I do. I've
always said the Heath Ledgers stuff, that it works for
that movie. I like my Joker to be acid, bleach
and everything. But I prefer Joker as far as what
I thought they were gonna maybe do is. I like
Joker acting crazy, but he's still I'm not saying he's
not like a little kooky and missing some marbles, but
like he still has it mostly together. He's not a
guy rolling his vcs or just laughing whenever. I think
it's a guy that portrays that it. So that's the thing,
Like I think most people like Joker to be cunning
and smart, where like this guy is. He wasn't that
way in the first one. I always talked about this
Joker like he had like if you're looking at stats,
he had like the ultimate luck stat Like the first
movie that happened. Say anything to this, he's about to
go to prison forever, death penalty, and then a fucking
explosion happens, and that's where I took It's like, oh,
it's like the Charles Manson sort of thing. But no,
most most jokers are the they're an enigma. You don't know.
It's like, you know, like a penny Wise, you don't
know where he came from. When they've they've tried to
be like, oh, he was a criminal, this and that,
but I think that's people's preferred version. They don't like
a joke or origin or to know his like full
motivations per se.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's why I get so drawn to
Like the performance was phenomenal, but specifically Heath's tale and
like Christopher Nolan's telling of that, because that's that right,
and like he gives the origin of like, you know,
my father was very abusive, tod this to me and like, okay,
you can make the argument that wow, like he had
a rough hand, but then he also changes the story
multiple times, so it's like I can't even believe what
he's saying. So he is a wild card and there's
many times where he's acting crazy, but it feels like
he is acting it right because he is still like
the one running the show and still this crime boss.
Speaker 1: So one of my favorite lines in the Dark Night
is when he has that mob meeting and like you're crazy.
He just like dead Penny's like, no, I'm not, I'm
not crazy, and then he goes back to being crazy.
But it's like, is he just a crazy guy that
if you say you're crazy he doesn't like that, or
is that him break Kara for a moment, like no,
I'm not fucking great, Like I know what's going on
here and that's what I prefer. But that's where I like,
that's where I never had a problem with this. I
guess he's not the Joker now, but like this version
because like, okay, you've done that is what is this version?
What is there a Joker of? Like literally, okay, mental
health and abuse creates them, right, and there's some issues,
but I'm fine if it kind of makes you uncomfortable.
But again, in this movie, it's just our Arthur just
had a shit life and he decided to kill some
people and he regrets it. It's like, Okay, I guess
I don't look at that. At the end of Joker,
one of him being too regretful. But I guess he's
had two years to think about it, so I guess
he is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just something I wanted to bring up on
the retroll.
Speaker 1: I forgot too, So there we go, what about you too?
We want to go next?
Speaker 3: Oh what did you guys think of the intro? The
classic like Looney Tunes kind of style thing. I really
enjoyed it, and I thought it was a very fun,
kind of like, I guess, a recap of the first
film in a weird way, but in his own kind
of Well.
Speaker 2: That would have been the TV movie that they kid
talked about, right that was shown?
Speaker 1: I didn't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either.
Speaker 1: No. I was hoping we were gonna see clear clips
of the TV movie and it's like, who were they
gonna get to play walking? But I think it was
something different, which a great comedic moment when him and
before a trial, he's talking to Lee because he found it.
Lee lie to him, but he's like, oh, what about
the movie? Is that bad? She go the movie is good.
I only watched like four or five times, but it's good.
And then Zazzi beats is on the stand and it's
like oh, and I had to watch that awful movie.
And he looks back at Awful and she's like, no, no,
it's good. And then he's like smiling and like good stuff,
you know, like yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I totally thought that was the TV
movie that like it's like why else would we show this?
And it's not even like it's a true recap because
it's like there's no cops that come in and beat
the shit out of like on stage. But I like
the vibe, especially to start the movie, because I'm like,
what the fuck are we in for? But yeah, I
don't know it was in hindsight, it's it's an interesting
choice and.
Speaker 1: That pausits the whole split personality thing though, right, and
that's where it's like again he says that's not the case,
but they have like the shadow of him and it
locks them up and takes the like the paint, and
I to me, that's what I did like about this version.
I always liked that pitch of they said the first
time of Oh, his laugh in like a meta sense
is almost like the joker trying to get out right,
And I kind of like that. The abuse and the
mental health crux is that he's been put in it
has created this thing that is the Joker. So that's
why again it's weird at the end when he can
kind of just go back to being it feels like
at the end of times he's Arthur on some meds
and not the Joker. But that's where I kind of
liked this, where it's like, Okay, I took the ending
of the first movie, he accepted that, but yeah he's
maybe he's not the Joker, but he's still that's in
him right And even then, multiple times they have characters
asking like, oh, can I talk to Joker or what
would Jokers say? They do refer to him as like
a almost different entity, and I don't mind that. It's
just when he obviously again confirms it's not him. But yeah,
I liked it was something something different, something fresh to
start off the film that I wasn't expecting. So it
was nice to get the old war They did the
old Warner Brothers logo last time. This time they did
like the animation ones, so that was fun to see.
I want to shout out Brendan Gleeson really liked him
in this movie, Like I think he's just like a
phenomenal actor. Obviously we've talked about him multiple things, but
he did such a good job of you would never
know was he talking down to Arthur, was he actually
joining Arthur? Was he making fun of Arthur? Because he
did all those things where there's times where all of
their guards be shitting on him and he would like
genuinely stand up for him. I thought he was gonna
have some really big ald tear motive to get him
that singing class, and I don't nothing was.
Speaker 2: Really revealed, like like songs, like singing himself, like he
just wanted to sing Yeah, hilarious.
Speaker 1: But then you got moments where that happens and they
bond and he gives him a cigarette and Arthur pats
him on the back, but then he just fucking turns
around like an abusive dead and just beats hits him
in the head and just like yeah, that's enough. Like that.
I loved the performance.
Speaker 2: I love that we don't even see his face too
in that moment, like it's just like a backshot and
he just stops for a second and then just fucking yeah,
smacks in the back of that. It's not like Arthur
is like what the hell is that for? It's like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: This IS's just accepted.
Speaker 2: It can't been a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can't do anything. So no, I thought
that performance was like a low key, very fun performance.
I think he did a very good job and I
was mad he didn't get his come up and sp uh. Yeah. No,
I really liked for just like a minor and it's
a minor in the story, but there's not much she's
not like he comes in the third act and he's
the one that blows the bomb, right, but he's just
like another kind of shitty person. But it's kind of
like the Murray thing of like, yeah, he's kind of shitty,
but these are also like all shitty people he's dealing with.
Like it That is a strength this movie again that
they make us sometimes feel sympathetic for a guy that
kills his mother, killed an innocent talk show host because
you're like, oh, this guard's treating him like ship, but
really like, well, well why should we care because this
is like Arthur is a shitty person in a sense, right,
But they do a good job of making you feel
uncomfortable with this guard.
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh dear it happened. Oh when I saw
his name, I was like oh man, this must be
like Donald Gleason's dad or something. It is interesting. No,
that is actually yeah, the hell I'MDB lied to me
so that he was he wasn't.
Speaker 1: Donald and Lourent. Yeah, and they're in Harry Potter together.
Speaker 2: There you go. I'm happy now. Yeah. Matt I, Moody,
Martin Scorsese, he too was in the same He was
the judge.
Speaker 1: He was not the job.
Speaker 2: Like for sure, every time I went to the judge,
I'm like, holy fuck, Marty's in here.
Speaker 1: That's what he did, and that that that was something
where like I was fine with the whole oh you know,
like by the law it says he can dress whichever
way he wants. But he's just like, Okay, I don't
want any outbursts from the crowd. The crowd continues outbursts
for the entire movie. He's like, don't make.
Speaker 2: This a scene seem powerless?
Speaker 1: Really yeah, when he's like and that like made it
feel like less believable in the sense like, oh is
this fake? And it wasn't. But when he's like, yeah,
and I don't want to show, and Arthur's like standing
up and doing his stand up routine. He gets the
chair gets the microphone, like I feel like even just
this voice he was doing the judge BK, knock this
shit off and talk normal, Like it felt like the
that could have had more way to it or just
don't have the judge do that. But yeah, I just
felt like Arthur was skinning away with like I'm not
gonna say murder, but anything in that courtroom because it's
just like, oh, well, I guess technically he can do this,
but it's like I don't know about that.
Speaker 2: But it seemed like every day of the trial, he's
like just a reminder, I'm not putting up with any
funny business, and then funny business would happen.
Speaker 1: The whole trial is funny business. You know, he's talking
to the cameras and everything. So yeah, no, I that
was a just a moment. I got a chuckle out
of that classic kind of just movie crowd where lots
of cheering. I love when he came out the first
time and he's given like the and that's the weird
thing because it's just like, yeah, like in the first
movie talked about this where okay, his intention was not
to create like a clown mob, but when it happened
and he's accept by them. He's like, oh, there's finally
people that accept me. So I feel like him even
becoming the Joker fits more with the Arthur we've met
in the last movie, because he just want to be
accepted one way or another, right, And if it's to
be Joker, then I'm gonna be Joker. And again, I
just think there was not enohing this movie for me
to believe him turning against that. So but yeah, again,
funny funny moment there with him addressing the crowd. There's
lots of funny moments, and the crowd is cheering a lot.
And I do want to mention this because it's late
and I don't want to forget it. I guess kudos
to them. I got a little chucko a chuckle, A
chuck a chuckle. Kudos to them for given Harvey Dan
and his two face origin.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know it's like, of course.
Speaker 1: Bomb goes off. They show his body still live, but
have his face gone. So you know what. I like
that they committed to the bit of like, hey, you know,
things aren't like the comics, but they're still gonna happen.
And Harvey Stilly came from Harvy two face. But yeah,
my mind did not have any idea what was happening
when that wall blew up. I did, for a second think.
I didn't think Batman, but I thought man, like, something's
happening here, and I guess kudos to them. He got
away pretty easily. But yeah, he ends up with some
people that just are in love with him and want
to get him out of there, and then Arthur flees
the stairs and again he gets caught. So but yeah,
good good surprisement with there at least.
Speaker 2: So I was definitely shocked, and then immediately just thought
of the hilarious image of his just fucking Batman and
in this suit and everything. He's just just like martyring
people with an explosion. You're come with me? Yeah, I
just like the meme something else that was a big
thing in this movie, just like smoking and like cigarettes
use and like massive in this film, and specifically in
the early portion. I think it's what he's doing, maybe
the interview or maybe beforehand, like when he gets his
first cigarette and he's just doing like a big drag.
I'm not like a cigarette smoke or anything, but man,
the way that he was just inhaling I'm like, that
just looks like it just feels so fucking good. Just
is like deep inhale. There's like a big butt on
the end. I mean he's smoking throughout the whole film.
Ladygaugu is smoking throughout the whole film. But I'm just like, man,
that big deep drag he's taking right now, I'm just
I feel like I'm getting just like secondhand like like
like nicotine or what the hell you get from It
just looked so tasty, even though smoking is terrible. But yeah,
they sure made it look you know, we've talked about
in the past just how smoking looks so badass or
sex scenes in certain instances. But smoking's bad for you,
so don't do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't do it. Yeah smoking in this movie from.
Speaker 2: But like if I'm on the death penalty, man, I'm
I'm fucking smoking twenty packs a day at that point,
you know, get it in you?
Speaker 1: When do you have to lose?
Speaker 2: You know, so I can't donate your lungs, I guess
to a good cause afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I want to show all this stuff
just because like before I forget, I liked the Meet
You with Harley and Joker. I liked her setting up
the that's a musical number. I really liked with them
singing in the streets and the spotlights and everything. I
enjoyed that. I like her starting the fire, and again
he did want to just watch the movie, so that
was kind of a shout at all old Arthur, who
like was a TV not kind of in a way.
But yeah, I liked everything. I just could have used
a little more, maybe some some bigger scenes there. But
I think great job singing, great job in the musicals parts.
So another good joke. When I she's talking about how
she's gonna support me, he's like, Oh, I bought your
new like a part a place at your old apartment
so when you're out you can come home. And he's like,
I want to go back there. Like there's a lot
of that stuff where there's like one look like just
one leners, Oh that was the other one too. I
send the nonsplores. But she's with interviewers like if he
gets out, what are you gonna do? We're gonna build
a mountain, And then just one interview is like what
does that mean? And then so the interview is like, Yeah,
what the fuck are you talking about? Like I like
that they again there's some good little moments in there.
But yeah, I liked Harley Quinn but just our lady Gaga.
But could could have used more. I could have used
her getting another big scene and maybe there would have
been some fun of them going on a road trip together.
I don't know, maation should be in the asylum longer.
I don't know, because it feels like a big jump
from she gets out to like instantly she's known as
like the Joker's girlfriend or whatever. It's like, okay, again,
we'ren't on the outside, so we don't know what's going on,
but could use a little more about liked everything that
we did get, And that was another example of a
musical I did like where he gets the information about
her rich parents lying and they have a musical number
together where she starts out singing and he's like, oh,
it's supposed to be about me. And that's where again
I thought he is still the joker, because like, that's
a selfish thing to state. He didn't say about us.
He said about me, So it's like, oh, well, no,
he's clearly still the joker, but he's not. But again,
that was another good scene of showing the dynamic fracture
but through music. So even though like I said, I
could have I could have taken out when he said
that at the end to Harley, like, can you just
talk to me and stop saying that was me A
couple d a couple of music numbers, I said, Okay,
we're this is slogging for me. We need to speed
this up here.
Speaker 2: So I don't think I have much more Dad, I
don't really have any other rooms. Smoking was my last note.
Speaker 1: Yeah, teelor anything.
Speaker 3: Else, I don't think so a lot of smoking.
Speaker 1: Every scene I did like that with Zazzi Beats revealed
they did not reveal the toss Wayne thing because I
thought Zazzi Beats when she said, oh, his mother made
up the story, I thought she was gonna get into
the mall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am glad that they kept that secret.
Speaker 1: So I was glad they Yeah, they kept that to
the vest and let that up for interpretation there. But uh, yeah, no,
I'm sure we'll talk about this again with patrons because
I think it's gonna be a divisive movie. I think
it's like what we said at the beginning, where I
can see someone not liking this. But I guess I'll
just go down because I'm talking. I'm gonna I'm gonna
give it a six. I was gonna give it a seven,
but I think it's just that ending really hurts. It's
kind of like we just bring us a power. I
got a seven because it's like, oh, there's a lot
of the visual stuff or the filmmaking stuff. This film
just looks beautiful many times, the the blocking, the colors,
the way they frame certain things. It's a like for
comic movie, one of the best looking ones. But it's
I think that's where sometimes there's movies that have errors
or have faults, but it's like the highs are so high,
like a dead Pool Wolverine right where like visually that
compares nothing this movie. But that is like a ten
for me because I had the enjoyment and some the
highs are so high. But with this it's the reverse
where you know, I got some high highs, some middle middles,
but like the lows are solo in my opinion, and
luckily I don't think it's like worst combat than we
error people. Like if anyone thinks I've seen the hyper
Bowl takes of all this worst Mood year, please go
watch the fucking Woody Woodpecker movie on Netflix and tell
me so if you think this is the worst movie year.
I don't trust your fucking opinion about anything when it
comes to film, because there is so much more out
there where it's like, yeah, go watch the woodywood Pecker.
No one can tell me, like Madam Web is better
than this, like fuck off, like usually enjoy it more.
That's great, but just from a standpoint bause or you
mute this movie, which you want the musical aspect right,
but just the way it looks just like the first one, fantastic.
But yeah, I think a six. I can't put in
that seven range because, as I've said many times, that
gets that range of stuff where oh I have issues,
but I'll rewatch it. It will be a mint Albret,
like I said, I will rewatch this soon enough. With Emily,
I'm hoping we can hold off to home because I
really don't want to see this in theaters. And I think,
as I tell Emily, I think she'll be like, yeah,
I trust you enough, I can just watch this at home.
And then after that, I don't. I don't know. I
just feel myself kind of watching the first one and
then maybe just stopping there, you know, like and just
kind of pretending it never happens, like some people do
with the Star Wars prequels or sequels and everything. So yeah,
that's what I think I'm gonna be doing. But yeah,
A six. Unfortunately, this is a disappointment. I think I
said I was hoping at least for like in the
eight range, and I think at times it was that way,
but as the movie went on, it dropped and yeah,
definitely definitely let down. So hopefully, uh, I guess there's
no hopefully because this is the end of the road
for walking thing a joker. He's done DC, a ton
of Phil's done, so I guess hopefully we get some
good Joker content very But at the end of the day,
it doesn't take away what they did achieve with that
first movie. I just think that it was a lightning
can't strike twice and they could not achieve that same
they could not achieve or they they got in the
way of themselves and we'll never know.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I would go. It's tough because
I feel like the more we talked about certain things,
it definitely brought down some some of my enjoyment it's
always tough when you have a sequel that brings down
the quality of the first film. Yeah, I feel like
that's more egregious than just being like poorly written or
something like it. Like it it's like, just lead the
first one alone, like like, don't bring that one down,
Like come on, just go down on your own, don't
don't bring others down with you. I think I'll just
six point five just just just because I did really
like that that middle section. But yeah, like the back
and the front were not great, but the the innards
were tasty for me. But yeah, it's it's unfortunate. I
don't think it's the I mean you, you said a
lot of terrible movies that are definitely worse than this.
Speaker 1: But it's gonna be better than Venom in a couple
of weeks, I promise you, Like I promise you you
might enjoy Venom Moore because it's funny and outrageous.
Speaker 2: There's some people in our theater that were loving that
the trailer for Venom. You love, then this is why
he gets a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Never hit a billion dollars, by the way, then I'm
joker has but I don't. I don't think Joker two
is gonna because that's one thing I don't think it has.
We'll talk about newscass nowhere near that rewatchability or recommending
it like you gotta see Joker too, Like I don't
think so. I think there's some splotches in here where
it's like this is kind of dull or we're waiting
around for all. I think there's just one time there's
a shot of Arthur just smoking for like a long time.
I was like, I think I got it, like he
likes to smoke, Like let's let's move along, you know.
Speaker 2: But nope, But yeah, that's all I go say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with a uh a seven.
We got like going up five point five's all the
way up?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, any more people and then we'll get to
a ten people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, this movie has
a lot of stuff going on in the in the
first and second act that I can get on board with,
I can really enjoy once we get to that third
act and then just them retroactively kind of backtrack with
Arthur Fleck's character as a Joker. Don't like that at all.
And so that's why I'm docking it pretty heavily because
of that. It's just really really unfortunate. But I think
though that him embracing this character like walking Phoenix, just
absolutely is phenomenal as a Joker. And I love those
those moments where that's just the musical sessions that are
in their studios and live action or live audience kind
of set up. I think it's a lot of fun,
and I think they really do a good job at
showing how Arthur is going deeper and deeper into this
Joker character. And yeah, that sprinkled with the humorous moments
that are not humorous but humorously awkward. Really really enjoyed
all that too. So I think that this movie is
something I will rewatch. But if I, you know, if
I have to watch a Joker movie, I'm going to
be going to that first one more so just because
like the I like all that mental health like atmosphere
that they're kind of like tackling when it comes to Arthur.
Speaker 1: All that mental health.
Speaker 2: I like all that mental health, Give me all that
mental health.
Speaker 3: I just I like how they're throwing that all onto
Arthur and it just feels like it's got so much
more tension so much more build up leading towards that
just fucking crazy ending, a lot more than what we
got here. This just didn't feel climactic or anything like that,
or it didn't feel like there's any tension building up
towards this sending of this movie.
Speaker 1: Arthur dies, it's like the most anti climatic, Like I
was found the death, as we said, but just the
actual death. And that's even something like the way it shot.
I didn't think it was anything amazing, but uh yeah, yeah,
well from sci Fi Centers is the same thing gave
Joker six had potentially be much more though, and I
think that's what we all feel. I think it's like
none of us are calling this a bad movie or
one of the worst ever, because like you see the
bones of certain ideas, but uh, like yeah, I thought
I was all there, but no, it was. You know,
it's sometimes hard to recapture the magic, and that didn't
happen this go round. But Alas, I'm not sure if
we'll talk about this, like I still have walking I
think in my Golden Gee's Dominie, but I don't think
it's like twenty eighteen where it was a bullet of like, oh,
this guy's winning for sure. It's like right now he's like, yeah,
I'm definitely gonna bring him up because he's still great.
Like the performance is still great, but it's not like
Anna auto win and same thing with Harley Quintin. That
has to at the material. So obviously we were a
bit mixed. I've talked to some people that are mixed
to let us know in our discord, Patron wherever you
want to talk to us what your thoughts are. We'd
love to see I hear this and now yeah, we'll
excited for next to After nine to talk with the
patrons with this one, because again I still say it's
a positive. I'd much rather get a movie like this
where we'll want to talk to about other people, where
like what do we have to say about the Marvels
after other than our meme of you know, the Creed
came here hopeful. It's like we weren't being like, hey,
everybody on After nine, what do you all think about
the Marvels? Like we all kind of had the same reaction.
So but yes, thank you very much for listening to
this episode. When you hear from us next, I promise
you'll not be boring say that again,