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Speaker 1: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the six hundred and

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thirty fifth episode of the Geek First podcast. I am

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the clown Prince of podcast Trust Now, and I'm joined

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by Shut the Fuck Up Ricky.

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Speaker 2: That's me co Compatser.

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Speaker 3: Four once Taylor Field.

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Speaker 1: A Mountain. What, Ladies and gentlemen, we are here to

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review Joker Folly Dude Now. Obviously very anticipated movie because

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the first movie made a billion and it was a

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very controversial movie, and then even doing the sequels controversial,

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a lot of people saying you don't need a sequel

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to get to Da Da. We'll probably talk about news

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how it's gonna do or not do box office wise,

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because tracking has been going down for it, so I

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think some of the word of mouth has been spreading,

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but doesn't necessarily mean that we agree. As usual, there's

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lots of stuff going on the feed. We usually drop

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out the four to five episodes. It's your first time

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listening to geek First. Every week there's about four episodes

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on the feed, so subscribe. It's a late one for

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us here, So I'm just gonna say go down. The

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links for everything you need to know is down below.

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Patreon Podcast video all like a jazz and then most

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importantly November second, our twenty four hour stream for Extra Life.

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It's a charity. We were doing it for eighth year.

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We're trying to raise two thousand, five hundred dollars towards

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the BC S Thrones Hospital. If you're interested in want

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to help out. All these proceeds go towards kids and

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families in need and the Oh sorry, the donations are

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tax deductible and if not, please just come that day.

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We're gonna start announcing events soon, but lots of fun events,

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things coming back that you'll love, some new things always rotating,

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like old faces stopping by, so it's a good time.

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If you've never seen us do Extra Life, come check

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it out because yeah, there's some down time of us

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gaming and just talking to the chat, which is always fun.

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But we try to make an event and do a

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multitude of things, you know, So yeah, look out for

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that and we very much appreciate the support coming up

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on that tair field. Give me your non spoiler thought, o'vistly,

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people want to know the thoughts on your first movie.

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Dropped the retrospective last week, so you don't need to

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do that that's on the feed. What is your nonspoy

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thoughts of this film? Non spoilers thoughts.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, obviously everyone knows this is musical going in.

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I think that they did a interesting.

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Speaker 1: To stop you. I don't know if everyone does know that,

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because as we were watching the movie, someone, as the

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song too start, went is this a fucking musical? So

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I just wanted to throw that out there.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy.

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Speaker 3: I think that the way that they handled certain songs

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in this narrative, actually it worked for me quite well.

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I'd say that it didn't feel like, you know, in

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most cases the musical, the song kicks in and then

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it feels like all like the real world kind of

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things going on in the real world just kind of

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stop and cease doing what they're doing and lieu of

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just the song and the character singing and whatnot. But

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in this I like how it felt like the characters

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were singing and everyone around them would be like, what

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the fuck, Like what's going on here? Like it still

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felt like the it felt like it was insane, and

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it just it worked for the story, and I can

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appreciate that. I felt like it didn't do a lot

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at the start, but then we started to get maybe

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too many as it progressed, which is a bit of

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a con for me.

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Speaker 4: But I still felt like.

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Speaker 3: There were things with Arthur Fleck that I enjoyed how

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they tied in, not just because there's certain moments that

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I won't say this, I won't care this one because

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that's a spoiler, but there's certain moments where they use

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the musicals in the main narrative, and then there's certain

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ways that they use the musicals in another way that

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showed him kind of delving deeper into his character. And

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I like that a lot because every time you get

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one of these weird transitional musical numbers like Okay, now

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we're going to get like another and amped up version

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of like Arthur fleck character, and I like that. It

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was super exciting and it was great to see what

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happens next is he just keeps going crazier and crazier,

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and I.

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Speaker 2: Really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it just felt like there was there was

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a lot, a lot, a lot, and it happened happening

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more frequently as we were going along. But that being said,

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I feel that the first one still stands up because

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this one, as we get to the third act kind

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of unravels and maybe backtracks a little bit of our

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character and what they've done in that first one, and

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I feel like it's unfortunate.

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Speaker 4: And there's just a lot of time.

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Speaker 3: Like as much as I like certain things and the

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time spent in certain environments in this episode, I do

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think it's just a shame that we didn't get I

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don't know, a.

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Speaker 1: Little bit more episode. I didn't get the joke or

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TV show TV Nori this TV movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I think that we should have maybe

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got a different kind of narrative with our character or

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at least like maybe push things along a little bit further,

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because it's a long movie and I feel like it

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just felt like it really felt slow.

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Speaker 4: And I hate to say that.

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Speaker 3: So I know how I feel about like where I

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would rank this or what I would give this movie

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for a ranking or a rating. But yeah, I'm excited

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to talk about Ristrava now. I'm excited to talk spoilers

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with you guys and kind of like break it apart

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because there's definitely a few moments that I appreciate cringiness

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where you're just you're laughing, because man, Arthur Fleck is

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he like Joaquin Phoenix plays a damn good, fucking joker.

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And on on that note, Lady Gaga is fucking fantastic

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in this movie.

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Speaker 4: I think she absolutely nailed it. I loved her character.

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Speaker 3: I think it was great, and just her dynamic with

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Arthur Fleck was I thought their chemistry was fantastic. Uh yeah,

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it's just only good things to say about about them

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for sure.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, mister me, Yeah, I this is an interesting

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one because I very much was anticipated for it going

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into it. I didn't really know about like the review

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trend until, like I think today, honestly, I was talking

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to a cowork about it and he's like, it's not

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gonna be good like seeing reviews. I'm always I'm always

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weird when someone says that, because it's just like, Okay, well,

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like you can also see it yourself and like judge

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it with your opinion, but you know, I digress, so

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like I don't want to I want to say that

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deterred my anticipation. But she's like, Okay, this is gonna

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be interesting. I knew his musical going into it, so

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obviously a lot of people have issues with musicals, and

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maybe if people don't know what's the musical going into it,

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that could definitely kill a lot of the excitement. But

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like all that being said, I had a good time

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with this movie. I think that this is a good story.

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It's I think, quite messy at various stages, but I

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think the stuff that they do well, they do really well,

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and like I do really like it as a project

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on its own. And this is gonna be weird to say,

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but I feel like maybe I would have preferred a

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different sequel to the First Joker, and we'll get into

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that when we get into that. But yeah, like I

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and like it. You can't really have this movie without

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what happens in the first movie because it's directly like

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you know, and like following up with the events of

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what happened there. But it just still felt like disjoint

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or like disconnected a little bit maybe from the first

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And again, like I'm trying to trying to not say

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too much here, so we will detail that we get

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into spoiler section. But yeah, no, I think it still

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looks really good. Lady Gaga was fantastic for I. I've

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seen half of Stars and Fell Asleep, so I haven't

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really seen her act that much other than like the

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little sequences of that movie that I've seen, so I'll

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definitely have to jump in because, like, what's a quick

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fire of some of her movies. I know, the House

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of Gucci. I heard she's the standout in that Stars Born.

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I heard she's the standard in that story, and I

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heard she's the standout and you know the sequences that

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she's in that show. So that's that's exciting to see.

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And I hope she starts to do it. Well, I

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hope she starts doing it. I hope she continues to

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do these these big films and big project because she

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is a very talented lady. And yeah, just it's funny,

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like because this is a musical having her like sing

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in this next to like Joaquin, I'm like, god damn,

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She's just a fantastic singer, and it really just makes

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Joaquin look like not that great of a scene. I mean, yeah,

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but like it's also Arthur Fleck maybe versus like, Okay,

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we have Harley Quinn, but it's still Lady Gaga. Like

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she's still got Lady Gaga's voice, and like she she

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is a very good singer. So yeah, I I had

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a good I had a good time with this one it,

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I would say across the board, it very much isn't

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as like Dowur as the first and like, I don't

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feel like sick to my stomach like throughout this whole

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film like I do at various stages of The Joker. Now,

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if you listen to the retro that we did for

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Joker one, I felt less so that way on my

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rewatch of it. But it's also because maybe I knew

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what was coming in a certain extent, but it's still

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just not a feel good movie and this isn't really that,

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but it's still more uplifting overall than maybe uplifting is

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a weird it's it's more, yeah, it's it's it's more

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heightened maybe than what the first one is. And because

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of the musical aspect, there's like reasons for that which

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make a lot of sense. But uh, yeah, I still

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think there's a lot of good stuff in here. Walking.

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I think he's still great, but just not like as

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mind blowing as he was in that first movie. And

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it's tough to say that when it's your first time

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experiencing the actor portrayal that role. And yeah, I don't know,

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I'm I'm a little bit torn on like my overall

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like what I would I'm not as solid on like

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like what Taylor would would would give right now, but uh,

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I still had I still had a good time. And

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I can definitely see why a lot of people would

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might have issues with this, uh because I like with

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what Taylor was saying. Like the beginning, I felt like

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I felt like we were coming into the dock and

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we're looking for a doc to board at, but we

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just can't quite decide where we're going, and we're kind

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of just stuck in the middle and we're kind of

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just spinning around where to go if that analogy makes

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it just on the ship, yeah, But but like once

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we got going, like like the meat and potatoes of

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this story, I did actually really enjoy. So yeah, it's

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It's an interesting one for sure, and maybe just not

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as clean as a sequel as maybe I would have wanted.

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But it's not not a clean character by any means,

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So in a weird sense, it fits. And I like

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the lot of the supporting characters that was we're in

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here and some funny moments that were maybe not so intentional.

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But yeah, I think I'm happy with that overall right now.

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And music music was fantastic. I love the soundtrack of

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this movie. A lot of just songs I knew of,

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but again, like having them come through Lady Gaga's mouth,

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it's just like, oh my gosh, this is like fuck,

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this is this is beautiful, beautiful sounding, and some really

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great visuals. So yeah, overall, definitely positive for me. Thumbs up.

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Speaker 3: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is gonna be an interesting one for me

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because I I'm somebody that even on that first review

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we did, or I did with Dylan and Briggs, I

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think they were both in the camp you leave it

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as one undone, and I know a bunch of people

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that you'll leave it as one undone, And I was

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always in the camp like you gotta do a sequel,

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like because the money, but like, I think there's lots

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of potential here. And even when we got those trailers,

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I was like, Okay, they're doing a lot of the

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ideas that I think would be the great, like the

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Route to Go, and I think they touch on that

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a little bit, but it is that risk of a

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joker might just be that lightning striking in a perfect situation.

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Because this Yeah, I was very surprised by this movie

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and oh I don't know what the best way to

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describe it is. I think for pros is I would

241
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much rather still watch this. This is nowhere a fail.

242
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So there's my spoiler for a minie of the ranking there.

243
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It's nowhere to fail because cinematography, beautiful looking film, multiple

244
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shots throughout this just look great. Acting by both people

245
00:12:38,039 --> 00:12:40,960
are fantastic at the same time. I think Krikulan's right

246
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,679
where Walking's like, he's great in this, but he's maybe

247
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not got as good of a scene. And I think

248
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there's something in the third act he could have had,

249
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but they kind of whether it's his choice or someone

250
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else's choice, kind of ruined that. And then I think

251
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Gaga is good in this, but I wanted more of her,

252
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and I don't like I don't think when we come

253
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to Golden Geeks there's like a scene I can throw

254
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,320
at you to be like, oh, that's why she should

255
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,840
get nominated. I think she was just consistently good. But

256
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I thought Harley Quinn would be a bigger aspect of

257
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this movie, but I could never because I would much

258
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rather watch this over. I'm sorry if you like any

259
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,279
these films, but like Blue Beetle or Shazam two or

260
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Black Adam or the Marvels or I'm trying to think

261
00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,919
of another like mid tier Marvel movie or like a

262
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,399
Black Widow. Like there's so many just comic book movies

263
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that just exist to fuel the machine and make money.

264
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And of course, like no doubt, they all got paid

265
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like fifty million twenty five, Like they did this sequel

266
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for the money, right, But that's all I would, that's

267
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what you do. So for me, there's way more interesting

268
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things in this than a lot of other comic movies.

269
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So I'll take this any day over a lot of

270
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like let's just pump this out and it's like a

271
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generic origin story with a few things changed. Right. But

272
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at the same time, now seeing this, I don't think

273
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this movie should happened. And I can go back to

274
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twenty nineteen tracks and say, you know what, I think

275
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,879
you were wrong. I think this movie has some good idea.

276
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I think there's some good scenes in there. I already

277
00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:04,200
talked about the other stuff. I think it is a

278
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,039
very messy movie when it comes down to the script.

279
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I think the script is the biggest issue here. They're

280
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throwing out a lot of themes and they're throwing out

281
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,360
themes that I can still detach it, and I will

282
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:18,720
wait a little bit. But I think there's stuff they

283
00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:23,039
throw it here that Linger or Teeter or just full

284
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,960
on do hurt the first film, and it makes it

285
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,399
feel like, oh, like you're kind of going back on

286
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,840
a lot of stuff. And now when I watch again,

287
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:34,679
i'll space them out. But I don't know. I will

288
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,519
watch this again in the near future because Emily didn't

289
00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:40,399
get to see it, but before the plan was, oh,

290
00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:42,559
I'll see it, and then the following weekend we'll go

291
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,960
see this. I could not sit in the theater again

292
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,519
for this. This was way too slow for me, and

293
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:50,000
I'm some of that like slow stuff. A lot of

294
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,559
this was a slog and I think it was just

295
00:14:51,639 --> 00:14:55,000
the pacing. I think, even though Joker One is a

296
00:14:55,039 --> 00:14:58,440
slower movie, that pacing I think is very well done.

297
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,039
Between life stuff, the Murray stuff, the crime stuff. I

298
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think it has a good flow. This is just kind

299
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,639
of all over the place. The music numbers just sometimes

300
00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:10,360
come out of nowhere. That's the other thing too, where

301
00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:12,759
I'm not a musical guy. I could have cut at

302
00:15:12,879 --> 00:15:15,159
least three songs in here. There was a point where

303
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,080
a character says like, oh, stop singing, just talk. That

304
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,320
was me about halfway through this movie. I this was

305
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,919
a musical where I can count on the hand musicals

306
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,000
I love that aren't Disney. Throw Disney out because that's

307
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,039
a different thing, right, like Ala La Land, even like

308
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,360
Greece and like was it Rocky horror picture show? Like,

309
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,840
there's aspects of that I like, but it's the songs.

310
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,799
I'm not saying the music was bad, but I agree

311
00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:39,759
with Taylor that I like some of the function of

312
00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:42,879
how they use the musical stuff, but it's just maybe

313
00:15:43,039 --> 00:15:45,279
was too much, and there were a few times where

314
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,200
it would just randomly just come in. They're like, well,

315
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:49,919
let's just PLoP it right here. Sometimes it felt very natural,

316
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,759
and sometimes just felt well, we haven't had a musical

317
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,799
number in a while, so I think this movie would

318
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,919
probably be better if you took all that out, even though

319
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,279
the art design and some of that stuff is really

320
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,720
well done. So yeah, I think the other thing is

321
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:04,720
too that it's I was with the movie primarily for

322
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,799
the I'd say the first act and half so maybe

323
00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:10,519
interesting entire first half. I think it starts to go

324
00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:11,919
off the rails a little bit, and then I think

325
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,080
the third act is a is a big mess. I

326
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,720
think the third act they did not know how to

327
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:18,720
end this, and I think there is about five things

328
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,799
where it's like a ooh ooh. But I could just

329
00:16:20,919 --> 00:16:23,759
feel that score in my head, like drop in like

330
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:25,399
a fly. Like I was like, oh, it's probably here, Oh,

331
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,639
it's probably here, and then it's like boom boom boom.

332
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:30,519
I was like, oh, man, but there's still some good,

333
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,919
like unintentional dark humor. I laughed. So I will watch

334
00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:37,879
this again in the future, I think, But I it

335
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,440
won't be like I said, not counting the rewatch with Emily.

336
00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:43,080
It won't be a long time where Joker won I

337
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,960
have the need, not the need, but I'll I could

338
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,159
easily plug that in, like oh, I want to watch that,

339
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,799
but I'm I'm curious how this one's gonna age. But

340
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,679
I think it's gonna age poorer. And I just think

341
00:16:53,679 --> 00:16:56,879
there's just a lot of ideas here that aren't flushed out.

342
00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:01,039
And I just don't know what necessary happened between one

343
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,840
and two, and that's where it's like, Okay, it's one

344
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,359
just a lucky thing, right, or maybe they did say

345
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,759
everything they needed. I disagree because I think they touched

346
00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:10,119
on some things in here that I would have wanted

347
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,519
the Sea expanded on, but I didn't go that route.

348
00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:14,000
That's fine, So we get judged on the movie they

349
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,279
gave me, and the movie they gave me I think

350
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:21,400
is a well made, messy painting. That's the best way

351
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,039
I'd say. It's like you get the best artists in

352
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:25,400
the world and it's like, paint me a mess. It's okay,

353
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,640
I'm gonna pay a mess. And not saying that Tom

354
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,319
philps is the best artist in the world, but I

355
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,359
just mean there's some visual and film stuff that does

356
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:40,119
made quite well. So anything else non spoilers, okay, So

357
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,000
we're gonna get into it. So if you've not seen Joker,

358
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,880
we will be back after this ad break with spoilers.

359
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:51,880
So you've been warned and we're back. So where fuck

360
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,680
where do we want to start with this one.

361
00:17:57,319 --> 00:18:01,240
Speaker 2: It's agree just the idea maybe of it being something

362
00:18:01,279 --> 00:18:03,799
that I agree with the statement I think there is

363
00:18:03,799 --> 00:18:05,559
a lot of stuff in here that actually hurt the

364
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,880
original film. It's funny when we're talking when we're doing

365
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,680
the retro and just talking about like Zazzi beats his

366
00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:15,759
character and just the unknown of really what happens with that?

367
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,200
And then here we are it's like, oh no, she's

368
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:20,079
she's just fine, And that kind of just crossed that

369
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,519
off and a lot of that mystery and intrigue now

370
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,359
of me watching that first film. It's not really a

371
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,720
talking point anymore, right, it's not like, oh, what do

372
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:29,480
you think happened here? And like you can kind of

373
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,799
discuss that with people. Well we just we just know,

374
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,599
like he just left and there's nothing more to it,

375
00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:41,720
even just the whole like insanity factor that he had,

376
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:43,640
Like like it just seemed like he was a very

377
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,359
different joker at the start of this film or Arthur Fleck.

378
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,599
I guess you could make like the statement there, but

379
00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:53,920
you could maybe make the argument that it's because he

380
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,000
is just medicated up now and he is just laughing

381
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,680
at like uncomfortable moments anymore. It's just at the start

382
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,799
of the film, it just felt like a very different

383
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,920
Arthur Fleck. And I felt that way until like honestly,

384
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,359
until he kind of starts getting more into like the

385
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,680
joker vibe again, and then he starts getting like the

386
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,880
crazy laughs back and again, Like you can make the

387
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,039
arment it's it's because he's not taking his pills anymore,

388
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:24,240
like the conversation with Harley. But yeah, I just was that,

389
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,160
like right out of the gates, that was kind of

390
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,839
noticeable to me. And that's when I'm like, Okay, this

391
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,559
is this doesn't feel like it does pick up right

392
00:19:31,599 --> 00:19:33,480
after the events of Joke, even though he's in prison

393
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,759
for shooting Murray, and it's it's just it is a sequel,

394
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,599
but it just feels like it's it is its own

395
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,640
thing in a certain sense. And I think because I

396
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,640
was thinking that, I kind of just put myself in

397
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,359
that mindset and maybe it allowed me to enjoy it

398
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,480
more because I wasn't really holding onto that. But you know,

399
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:55,400
when we get to like the ending and the third

400
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,680
act and his decision for what he does, I really

401
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,000
didn't like that like at all. So I kind of

402
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,279
just was sour, especially with the third act of the

403
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:07,079
first film and how he he goes through the whole

404
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:10,400
evolution of becoming the Joker. He just kind of throws

405
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:11,960
out in the trash by the end of this movie,

406
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,920
and I was left really disappointed by the third act

407
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,240
of this film, even though overall I still enjoyed it.

408
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,960
But yeah, it's it's unfortunate whenever you have a sequel

409
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000
that does bring down the quality of that first film.

410
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:28,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a de evolution of the character because

411
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,440
I like the beginning of I can buy that he's

412
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,079
drugged up. Maybe I'm a new meds. That's fine, He's

413
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,839
you can see Arthur's there. But he's like even when

414
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:40,000
they do that first interview with him, because he's on

415
00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:43,240
trial obviously, and it's a debate of okay, as he's saying,

416
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,519
is he not? His lawyer is trying to argue for

417
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,319
split personality, and when they interview him the first time,

418
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,759
he's like very quiet and he doesn't really have any

419
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:53,240
personality and he's just kind of like a like a

420
00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:56,200
lobottomized version of himself. And I was completely fine with that.

421
00:20:56,319 --> 00:20:59,519
And it's like hardly doing the whole you know, gunshot

422
00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:01,200
to head like kind of wakes him up a little.

423
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,200
And then he decides to stop taking his pills and

424
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,640
we go down the rabbit hole. But like, this is

425
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,359
where I'll have to think more about. I think there's

426
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,480
two things they do here with the whole Joker thing,

427
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,799
but the third act there's lots to talk about. But

428
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,319
when he he becomes the lawyer, and I like the

429
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,319
consistency of when he's office pills, he kisses his lawyer

430
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,359
multiple times. It's like when he was on the talk

431
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,440
show and he kiss like that lady doctor. It's like

432
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,519
he gets more inappropriate. But that's where for me, I

433
00:21:29,519 --> 00:21:33,000
guess it just I don't think it a lot of

434
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:36,960
those tracks, because the whole point of a lot, like

435
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000
Harley Quinn Gauga is trying to get the joke out

436
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,920
of the way, right, like saying, you don't need her yet,

437
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,720
da da da? They're who are they here to see you?

438
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,279
Get dada da? And finally he snaps his that's it,

439
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:49,000
this bullshit. I need to represent myself. But he does that.

440
00:21:49,079 --> 00:21:51,599
He puts on this whole show trying to get to himself,

441
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,880
and I just don't think they earned the Well, you

442
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,079
know what, I'm actually not a joker. I'm Arthur Black,

443
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,119
and I made some mistakes and I just want a

444
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,400
second chance. I don't think that was earned at all.

445
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,160
I don't think that. I think that hurt the first

446
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,880
one for me because I thought the whole point of

447
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,880
the first one was to show how could this situation,

448
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,480
a real world situation create the joker. Right, it's not chemicals,

449
00:22:13,519 --> 00:22:16,680
it's not whatever he Fledger is, which we'll talk about

450
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,440
a little bit later. Whatever he Fledger is, It's okay,

451
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,160
what could we put what type of society could we

452
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,240
put a character in there? Right? And for him to say,

453
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,119
I'm not the joke, I'm just Arthur Fleck. I think

454
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,519
I get what they're trying to do, but I and

455
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,759
it is. Arthur Fleck is a at times sympathetic character.

456
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:38,759
But to me, that was the point in the first one,

457
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:41,640
is that character eventually goes to a certain place that

458
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,400
you can't follow. And I don't think they hit upon

459
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:47,799
enough that if he was really like I really want

460
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:50,000
my man's I really want, Like he didn't want to

461
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,359
be the joker at the beginning of this film, but

462
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,759
it just felt like it was he was being drugged

463
00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:56,039
by because he's in prison, not because like, hey, that

464
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,359
I went down that route and I can't go back there.

465
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:00,960
He seems like he's wanting to get out and he's

466
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,400
liking having Lee around and everything. So I think for

467
00:23:04,519 --> 00:23:07,839
me that really hurt that he kind of became Arthur again,

468
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,039
and I just felt like it's it's too late for

469
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:14,599
that I think that that's that ship has sailed, and

470
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,839
I don't think it was earned in the movie, especially because,

471
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:18,200
like I said, there's just multip times where it feels

472
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,559
like Arthur's wanting to become Joker again. So I think

473
00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:24,319
it was whatever they were trying to do there was

474
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,640
not fully well executed, and like I said, hurts the

475
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:33,519
first one because now it's like, I'm fine if he

476
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,200
were to do the whole because the debate is if

477
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,920
he slip personality, you know, I've I would have been

478
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,480
fine if he would have said, hey, you know what,

479
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,240
it wasn't the system, it wasn't the pills. I'm not sick,

480
00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,519
Like I'm just a fucking murder and a bad person.

481
00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:48,119
I'm using this all his excuse, But it was their

482
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,119
verse of like, well, you know, you know, I might

483
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,640
be a little sick and it might be this, but

484
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,200
I was still, like he said, like I'm in a

485
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,519
bad place in my life, but I'm not the Joker.

486
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,720
I'm still Arthur flex. So yeah, I really did like that.

487
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:02,480
And there's other things in the third act I did

488
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:04,480
not like, but that was probably the biggest thing in

489
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,240
this film I did not enjoy. And then even stuff

490
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,680
that they do with it after I don't think they

491
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:12,240
paid it off well. But yeah, what are your thoughts.

492
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 3: No, I'm pretty much on the same boat as you.

493
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,240
I don't think that they earned that kind of transition

494
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,559
for our character at the end, especially because yeah, this

495
00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:26,720
is the first movie. Ah it sets up everything so well,

496
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:29,240
and it just I feel like Arthur Fleck is a

497
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:32,079
joker becoming more and more insane, and yeah, getting off

498
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,880
of his meds, and like I said before, using the

499
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,519
musical numbers each time he breaks off into this different

500
00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:41,160
theme with Harley and it's just some like TV show,

501
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,880
sitcom like musical number, which is great.

502
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 4: I love those transitions.

503
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 3: And afterwards, when I would conclude, you just you see

504
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,160
Arthur Fleck and he starts to smile and then he

505
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,680
fires his lawyer or he just like does some other

506
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:54,799
crazy shit and it just shows him kind of like

507
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,240
finding himself and I really really like that, but just

508
00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:01,960
for the last fifteen minutes for him just to like, no,

509
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,559
I'm not that, like, I'm not a joker. And then

510
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,960
Harley Quinn walks out and then you know, bomb goes

511
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,119
off and Batman shows up and just kidding.

512
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: It's just come with me.

513
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 4: It's really it's really unfortunate.

514
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: I think that it does so much damage to our

515
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:19,920
there's so much damage to our character in this movie

516
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,519
and attroactively in the first movie too, So it's such

517
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:25,000
a shame. I think it's a really, really big shame.

518
00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:28,640
But again I see, like, Okay, well, this is a character.

519
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,279
His actions are meant to inspire the creation of the

520
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:35,680
real joker, I guess, which we'll talk about later.

521
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:37,279
Speaker 1: But uh, fucking well.

522
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,079
Speaker 2: I hate that so much. And I got back Shay's like,

523
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,160
how's the movie. I'm like, it may be so mad

524
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:44,960
at the end because that fucking thing.

525
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,079
Speaker 1: Madison and Taylor in the car. Todd Phillips had said

526
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:52,680
that about the first one right when they of course,

527
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,720
because the talk was you don't recall that's when passed

528
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,359
I was getting cast and was like, the idea of

529
00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:00,960
quldy be that I do wish there was a Actually

530
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,599
I don't because we got Barry Keegan and I'm very

531
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:04,000
excited to see what Barry's gonna do. So I take

532
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,480
that back. But back then I was like, yeah, put

533
00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:09,519
them together walking and passing, like what a combo? Now, right,

534
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,039
But I'm happy where we're going with Barry Uh. He

535
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:16,680
had talked about how well this could be the Joker,

536
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:20,640
maybe this inspires the real Joker. I fucking hate that.

537
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:23,920
I think it was just like better as like a

538
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,160
and I guess that's a problem with the sequel. I

539
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,319
this sounds mean, but I gave him and Scott Silver

540
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,000
too much credit because I did not think he would

541
00:26:32,079 --> 00:26:34,039
just go for something as obvious of like, hey, I

542
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000
floated the idea of this might not be the real Joker,

543
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:39,720
might inspire the Joker, but to really nail it in

544
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,039
people's heads, I'm gonna literally fucking do it. I'm gonna

545
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:44,799
show you that, well, this isn't the Joker. You know,

546
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,920
it's gonna this guy's gonna kill him and then he's gonna,

547
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,279
you know, give us the origin of Heath Ledger's Joker

548
00:26:50,319 --> 00:26:52,759
as he cuts his mouth open, which I don't think

549
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:54,279
that's what they're doing, but I was like, oh man,

550
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,720
not to invoke Keith Ledger's Joker, and that moment was

551
00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,680
a little bold. Again, I don't think they did that,

552
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,079
but you have to, like there's a line there of

553
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,519
there they both cut their cheeks open to make a

554
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:11,440
permanent smile, right, and I get what they're doing with

555
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:13,960
even talking about the death, which I think we all

556
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:17,319
knew was gonna happen or we thought was a very

557
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,319
likely possibility. I think with the walking speech at the

558
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,680
end with Harley with this guy with the guys that

559
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:28,559
kidnap them from the bombing, another theme that I think

560
00:27:28,599 --> 00:27:33,359
he's trying to do is like fans feeling like they

561
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:37,119
own something or whether it's just in general in politics,

562
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,559
like owning something, because this idea that he doesn't want

563
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:41,920
to be joker anymore, but these guys kidnap him, like, no,

564
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,400
you're still gonna be joker. You're a joker. So I

565
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,680
think that was his way of trying to say something

566
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,119
about fan toxicity. And along those lines, they said even

567
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,839
can be real world stuff, but I think it's introduced

568
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:54,640
so late it doesn't work. It's kind of like in

569
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,880
the first one where I don't have this problem, but

570
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,880
all of a sudden when Arthur makes a joke and

571
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,519
Robert Harre's like, that's not funny, Arthur, you can't say that,

572
00:28:01,759 --> 00:28:03,680
And Todd Films was trying to like comment on like

573
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,960
Calmedy nowadays, but it's like, oh, you didn't really set

574
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,240
that up, like Arthur's problem was that, like people don't

575
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,599
find him funny. It was like he's a lot of issues.

576
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,119
So I feel like this was the same thing of

577
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,880
that's something interesting to tackle of fans feeling like they

578
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,160
own an ip A character. Jokeer, right, we talked about

579
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,480
the Star Wars like okay, I own joke or Harley

580
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,200
owns Joker, and once it's gone, we're mad. Right, It's

581
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,920
almost like the sequel of like, hey, like you should

582
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,960
make more, we want more Joker. Well, here it is.

583
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:33,599
But I think the problem is like I don't just

584
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,000
don't like that ending at all, of like, oh, this

585
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,960
inspires another Joker. It really had like that's the best

586
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,559
because I thought we had this rumored for ages and

587
00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:45,319
I'm not sure if they cut it, and I wasn't

588
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:48,599
gonna bring it up. There were rumors a long time

589
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,880
ago that Bruce Wayne was supposed to be in that

590
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,960
asylum with them, and I thought that's what this was

591
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,480
gonna be. And I would have been fine with it

592
00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:57,160
if like some people would have been mad and it's

593
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,720
like a Batman killing thing. But I was like, if

594
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,480
they revealed this guy's Bruce Wayne, he's getting to pay

595
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:04,119
back and he's all fucked up. I can see the

596
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,720
line being strung together, but just that it's a random guy.

597
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:09,440
And I know someone's gonna say, well, it's not random

598
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,119
because like, well, you know, Arthur's actions inspire other people

599
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,839
and he took that away. But still it doesn't matter.

600
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,000
It's just some random fucking inmate that knifsome My last

601
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,200
pot with throw a third to you guys is to me.

602
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:25,279
I said this to mass and Harley killing on the

603
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,519
steps would have been a thousand times better than.

604
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: It would have fit so well, right, it would have

605
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,200
gone to that same dream sequence of her shooting him.

606
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,279
You could had the exact same like moment where it

607
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:37,119
goes from him stabbing and then it goes back to

608
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,160
her on stage with him bleeding. I was like, Shocklin

609
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:41,640
didn't have.

610
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,359
Speaker 1: The guys on the stairs, which are iconic for that character, right,

611
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:46,279
And that's where it's like she at least I would

612
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:49,279
buy that of like she felt betrayed. She was trying

613
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:51,240
she fell in love with an idea, right, and she

614
00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:53,079
even says that like, oh the idea is gone. You

615
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:56,119
said you're not joker. So she felt so betrayed by

616
00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:58,839
this guy, almost fooled, right, like he is, you know,

617
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,680
a scheist, like he pulled the wool right, It's like, yeah,

618
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,039
I am the Joker. Oh well really I'm not. I

619
00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:06,200
was hoping that he was going to meet her on

620
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,680
the steps and said that he just like lied and

621
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,279
he was doing as an act to like continue on

622
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:13,720
because that doctor they are doing the Joker thing where

623
00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:15,920
he's like, I don't think he's crazy. I think he

624
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,519
just acts crazy. I thought, oh, they're introducing this, this

625
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,440
could be something really interesting, but no, it was just

626
00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:23,319
I don't even know what Arthur really is. He just

627
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,079
is a guy with a lot of mental health issues.

628
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:28,160
I guess that you know which he was. But I

629
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,039
thought like the point that he was transitioning into something

630
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,599
else and just accepting some of these baddisms. But yeah,

631
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,880
I think if they're going to do this kill thing

632
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,000
in the whole portraying of Joker, I don't like that.

633
00:30:40,079 --> 00:30:43,279
But hardly that ending with the answer is right there

634
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,359
and they missed it.

635
00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:48,119
Speaker 2: That was a major major drop, honestly, Like you have

636
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,200
this asn't as an alternate ending. Maybe you know that's

637
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,279
at least like a week from now or ten years

638
00:30:54,319 --> 00:30:56,400
from now roaming the internet. I think that would be

639
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,400
an interesting idea, but to have it in the main

640
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,799
film it definitely brings down on some points for me

641
00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:04,079
because I was I was really disappointed in the overall

642
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,160
route we were going of him just admitting that, like, no,

643
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:10,519
this is like there is no joker, it's just me.

644
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:13,839
It just feels, like you said earlier, it is a

645
00:31:14,359 --> 00:31:16,680
de evolution of the character in my mind, because it

646
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,359
like that first film, as fucked up as it is,

647
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,960
like it's it's beautiful in a twisted sense of where

648
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,880
he gets to when he when he has the music

649
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,119
and the makeup on and the suit, he's doing the

650
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,519
dance on the stairs, like it's just such a big

651
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,319
crescendo moment. And then it seems like we're kind of

652
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:34,880
deconstructing that in this film, and it's not the whole

653
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,880
film by any means. And that's why, like when we're

654
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,039
in the middle, like I think that's the most fun

655
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,880
of this of like like the what would it be

656
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,240
the second act is the most fun part of this

657
00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:47,079
film for me, of just him interact with Harley and

658
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:49,960
going back and forth from from the courthouse, and I

659
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,759
was hoping we were going to just be doubling down

660
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:55,640
on the idea of this joker, and I thought he

661
00:31:55,759 --> 00:31:57,359
was going to escape, and I thought it was going

662
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,480
to be basically him and Harley sailing off theset and

663
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:02,839
that's just the end of the story. And and we

664
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,440
don't need a third It's just, you know, I guess

665
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,319
we didn't need this film now in hindsight, but like,

666
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:11,240
like I think that would have been a fun tale,

667
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,319
especially because I did like a lot of stuff going

668
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:18,119
on in here, and but no, we we wanted to

669
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,680
just change that and no, I don't have to split personality.

670
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,519
This is just who I am, and I'm a murderer

671
00:32:23,599 --> 00:32:28,119
and and that's that and very unsatisfying exit with Harley.

672
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:30,920
We've already mentioned it. I wish that she shot him

673
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,720
on the stairs. And it's also just like like the

674
00:32:35,759 --> 00:32:38,880
whole idea of like him not actually being crazy. It

675
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,680
just it just seemed like we we like solve that

676
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:45,119
from the first film, because he had all those like

677
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,279
traumatic child abuse situations that like, yeah, that would leave

678
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:53,640
someone extremely fucked up and probably with split personality disorder

679
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,279
and there and his lawyers even detailing that like like

680
00:32:57,559 --> 00:32:59,920
like he had this fantasy built up, like it like

681
00:33:00,039 --> 00:33:02,119
it seemed like it was a perfect defense that he

682
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,680
is split personality, and he just throws it out the

683
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,200
trash and starts defending himself, which was fun because because

684
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,240
because he's the joker in the moment right, like he's

685
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,359
wearing the makeup when he's interviewing Gary, and like he

686
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:16,799
he is just fully off the rails. And I like

687
00:33:16,839 --> 00:33:18,519
how he's kind of going back and forth in that

688
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:21,519
moment right like like when because he's like got the accent,

689
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,680
and then Gary says something like how could you do

690
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,920
this to me? Like You're the only one that was

691
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,799
nice to me? And he just like snaps and he's

692
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:29,759
talking as Arthur again and and and like I just

693
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,519
love that sequence because it seemed like a perfect example

694
00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:37,960
that he is actually split personality. But but then we

695
00:33:38,079 --> 00:33:41,079
just kind of say no, no, no, I'm just a

696
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,880
murderer and that's that. And yeah, just really really disappointing

697
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:48,799
of a third act because of all those reasons I

698
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:49,400
just listed.

699
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,079
Speaker 1: Taylor gonna goes that joker killer for Halloween this year.

700
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: No, that's uh, that's not my idea of a COSTU.

701
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:03,319
Speaker 1: Uh sure, yeah maybe.

702
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 4: Uh.

703
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: The fact that Jarvis he said that people were like

704
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:12,920
people are thinking or like is the rumor like bat

705
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,719
Bruce Wayne was supposed to be in the asylum and

706
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:15,199
like are.

707
00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:16,599
Speaker 1: People early on?

708
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, crazy guy could have been Bruce Wayne.

709
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,559
Speaker 1: I don't think in this film though. I think if

710
00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:22,920
that was film, they set.

711
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 2: Up for the Batman who laughs or whatever, that's yeah.

712
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think that was either a rumor and

713
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,760
not true at all. It was in the film they

714
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,639
cut it, or they just cut it even before filming.

715
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,599
Speaker 4: But mm hmm, yeah no, I I just think that.

716
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,639
Speaker 3: I mean I already spoke to just Joker and just

717
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,480
what happened with the what about the murder though? Changing

718
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,480
the way he goes out, Yeah, I think that you

719
00:34:48,519 --> 00:34:51,079
guys said it. Him dying on the stairs by Harley

720
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,280
would have been the most ideal because it just feels

721
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,480
like the bomb goes off, he gets hijacked by some

722
00:34:56,559 --> 00:34:59,320
goons and he just wanders around for a bit trying

723
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,039
to get to where he's going. And that said, then

724
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:03,519
he gets arrested and then we see him die afterwards.

725
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: Also, I got a question just as you're going off this,

726
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,559
I just thought of it, like, so he somewhat escapes

727
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,599
he It clearly isn't the orchestrator of his of his escape,

728
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:16,320
but he still escapes while he's getting his his verdict

729
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:19,440
or whatever for his sentence scene, and then he and

730
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,199
then he's back in jail and Arkham later on what

731
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:24,639
would happen in that case if like like when you

732
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:26,239
just go straight to the chair because it's like, hey,

733
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,280
they found him guilty. He's on trial for the death penalty.

734
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,679
Speaker 1: And always do the death penalty though, but is.

735
00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: There like another trial or is it just like a

736
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,039
waiting period?

737
00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:36,599
Speaker 1: There could be because they might have thought he did

738
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:37,000
the bomb.

739
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I don't know, it's just like and

740
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,039
then like the guards are orchestrating his death with this

741
00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:47,400
fucking psycho joker new joker guy. Like it just it

742
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:51,960
just didn't really make sense. That's ahead no, I was.

743
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,639
Speaker 1: Just gonna say. And it's also just weird too. Of

744
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,679
I get the speech because he never says this, because

745
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,519
he does say he wants another chance, but it's just

746
00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:01,039
also weird for me to talk about how he feels

747
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:03,559
bad about killing these people who made these mistakes, but

748
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:06,239
then to also like want to run away. It's like, well,

749
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,800
you can't have the character have the sympathetic speech, like

750
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,599
I fucked up and that should be the moment like

751
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:12,639
I should have the death penalty, give me the chair.

752
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:15,440
But it's just like, oh, I'm freely, like we can go.

753
00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:18,239
It's like what, like, so, what's their point of speech?

754
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,400
Like I guess in his mind he feels, you know,

755
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,440
and that is the problem, right because anyone can say, well,

756
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,199
it's a character with mental health, so like they go

757
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,280
through that, I know. But for me, I felt like

758
00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:30,599
the first film established some guidelines with him. People can't

759
00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:33,039
adapt and evolve, I guess, but I feel like they

760
00:36:33,119 --> 00:36:35,000
still stuck with a lot of those guidelines because he

761
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,800
would act a lot. Look at that interview with Steve Gooden.

762
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:41,280
I don't remember how Steve Googan. I think it is

763
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,079
his last name. Again a scene that I say that

764
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,079
is awesome. Love that scene. I think this movie has

765
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:49,440
a lot of great little dark humor moments and just

766
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,159
a moment he's like like starting the interview and like

767
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,079
Arthur's faces halfway in there, same thing like walking in

768
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:59,599
the trial when he's reacting. Fuck is he funny? Man?

769
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:01,559
He's so good at that stuff. But that's what I mean.

770
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,519
It's like, oh, he's starting to interview the Joker now

771
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:07,519
here like that's coming out. Like I said, he kissed

772
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,000
his lawyer before, so he felt like in the first

773
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,639
film the second one, for the most part, there's guy

774
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,920
lines of oh Arthur when he's on meds and when

775
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,159
he's off, but then that speech kind of felt like

776
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:20,719
he was back on meds. But then again it's just like, well,

777
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,559
what does this character really do? I guess he just

778
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:24,960
wanted to tell this jury that the Joker doesn't exist.

779
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,679
But I don't know. Taylor, Sorry, I cut you off.

780
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:33,199
Speaker 2: Steve Coogan, Cogan, thank you. Just think of what is

781
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:39,639
it the other guys just rolling that movie, the.

782
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 3: Guy, the the money guy. Yeah, two tickets to see

783
00:37:50,599 --> 00:37:56,360
Oh he's great and that isn't he in Tropics?

784
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: That's make a great movie. Yeah? Yeah, good god, it's

785
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,880
good effects nowadays. Anyways, Sair, we were talking about the

786
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,079
deaths or his death or something.

787
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think him dying in in Arkham. It's just

788
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,320
a completely underwhelming death. I just don't like it at all.

789
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,960
And it's just I hate that the guards kind of

790
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,400
get the they get they're the ones that come out

791
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,480
on top on this movie, and I don't like that.

792
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:28,519
I think I think that everything else with the guards

793
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:29,840
being pissed off at him, and.

794
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 4: When they were dragging him and.

795
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 3: Like like like kind of not waterboarding him, but like

796
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:36,920
roughly like well cleaning his face off and then like

797
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,239
taking his clothes off and then just dragging him and

798
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:41,800
they just fucking slam him against the wall and it's

799
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,360
that head smack and as they're moving them, he just

800
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,400
like daintly like slaps the card.

801
00:38:46,679 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: That was so good because they're like, is he knocked out?

802
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,159
Speaker 2: As he passed out.

803
00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:55,199
Speaker 3: The kid like he's he is such a fucking great joker.

804
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,280
But it just yeah, at the end of the day,

805
00:38:57,519 --> 00:38:59,760
with his death and the way they transition everything, it

806
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,119
just feels like Phillips is like, yeah, at the very

807
00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:04,679
end of this movie, we're just gonna undo everything and

808
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,119
just like show that Okay, it's it's inspired the real Joker.

809
00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:09,320
At the end, I just feel like it's just do

810
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:15,320
is such a disservice to Joaquin Phoenix's character. He's great

811
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,079
and again this is kind of going backwards a little bit,

812
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:20,199
but just those moments where it get in the musical

813
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,320
sequences where he's in like the courtroom and he's singing

814
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:27,000
and he's just like he's all jokerized.

815
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 4: Up and he's just like screaming and yelling and.

816
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,599
Speaker 3: It's he's fucking maniacal. And he takes his fucking the mallet.

817
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:37,199
I can't remember what it is in the courtroom, the

818
00:39:37,199 --> 00:39:39,280
the gabble. Yeah, he takes it's like a jumbo one,

819
00:39:39,559 --> 00:39:42,079
and he walks up to the judge and just fucking

820
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:44,519
starts wailing on his head. Like, man, this guy feels

821
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:46,920
like the fuck girl, like a fucking joker, Like I

822
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,360
love it. So it really is just a shame that

823
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,840
they just they gave up on the character. And that's

824
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,559
gonna be my biggest con is really that that ending

825
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:57,199
and that third act ever since, Like.

826
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 4: The explosion was awesome, and I wish that was, you.

827
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,679
Speaker 3: Know, Hardy planned and that he Harley was getting him

828
00:40:03,679 --> 00:40:05,280
out of there, and that he didn't give up on

829
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,360
being the joker. He was going to be the Joker

830
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:09,800
and this was just this was it and he just

831
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,079
gets off and he's they run off together.

832
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: That would have been great.

833
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: I would love it.

834
00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 4: Give him an anti hero happy ending.

835
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I thought, honestly, when he when he

836
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,519
addresses the jury for his closing statements, I thought he

837
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:26,159
was actually gonna like rat out the guard like matt

838
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:28,480
Ee Moody's character and just say, like last night he

839
00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:31,400
like killed this guy and just starts like going in

840
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,320
on just how the whole system is like against everyone

841
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,800
and like like just kind of going back to his

842
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,199
issues that he has in the first film, like with

843
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,039
just nobody cares, Like I guess he kind of talks

844
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:45,599
about some of those those instances, but yeah, it just

845
00:40:45,679 --> 00:40:47,719
it just leads into like now there's no Joker, and

846
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,239
it's just like, oh wow, like I out of all

847
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,519
the option like avenues we were gonna go. This is

848
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:54,960
not what I thought was gonna happen, And it's just

849
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,679
not that satisfying. And Ricky just fucking you know, poor Ricky.

850
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,760
He just got strangled and no was gonna know and

851
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,840
the guards are just getting away with it. Then Yeah,

852
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,760
it's just it's it's wasted potential, honestly, is what it is.

853
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's more of them trying to

854
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:14,639
subvert expectations because you have all the shitty characters in

855
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:18,039
the first movie kind of get their cup up ands right,

856
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:20,760
Like you have the the other guy at Pogos who

857
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,760
gives him the gun, who kind of gets them fired whatever.

858
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,679
I'm not saying Jokey should be killing people, but in

859
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,159
his eyes, he kills them, right. And then you got

860
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,320
Murray who makes fun of him. He kills them, even

861
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:35,719
the mother to extent, you know, which we learn more about. Yeah. Yeah,

862
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,079
But like even in the first one, they don't have

863
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:40,920
the greatest relationship, where in this one you have I

864
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,760
would argue Lee taking advantage of them. She gets the

865
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,480
upper hand because she just leaves them. Right. You have

866
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:49,079
the guards who beat them and I think rape them.

867
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:50,760
I don't know if I'm reading that, but I thought

868
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,199
that's what they did to him, because they took him

869
00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:54,239
in the shower and took off his pants. So it's like,

870
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,960
to me, that's like, there's only one thing they're doing there.

871
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,519
They didn't have to take his pants off. Why is

872
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:01,960
he just in the drawers now? You know? Well, and

873
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,679
he can't even walk. They have to drag him to

874
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,239
the jail cell. They could just beat him up, but

875
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,320
it was like, I don't know, it felt all that

876
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,400
they take him to the shower, in my opinion, and

877
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,159
then he had no pants on, so and then they

878
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,239
killed the other guy. So then you got all three

879
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,400
of those guards which is funny that there's three of them,

880
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,280
because it's three like the three yeah, the three billionaire

881
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,880
people or whatever, and I'm not sure if there's another one,

882
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,760
but that's the least you could even argue. Like Steve

883
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,840
Googan is like he doesn't really embarrass him, but kind

884
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,880
of a little bit. It's like all these people in

885
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,400
the first movie that okay, you messed with him eventually

886
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,079
came around and got you, and this time that didn't

887
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:37,840
really happen. They got the last laugh on him. The

888
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,920
guards didn't get any trouble. Lee is I guess free

889
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,039
and also just rich, so he doesn't have I don't

890
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,159
know what she's gonna do now. Maybe she's gonna go

891
00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:48,400
find the fucking new Joker in prison and get him

892
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,119
pregnant by him. And then, like Steve Googan's just gonna

893
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:54,920
go on and he's like a Murray that's unpunished because

894
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,159
he's trying to take a van to the situation, right,

895
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,639
because Arthur says, like you don't care about me, you

896
00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:01,719
don't care about this. You would actually be asking about

897
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,280
like why I'm changed and how I'm different, how I

898
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,079
want to be a different person, not like talking about

899
00:43:07,199 --> 00:43:11,400
Joker and talking about Lee, like talking about like paparazzi things.

900
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,480
So it was a similar thing but with obviously Murray

901
00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:17,000
had a gun and he killed him and he reined

902
00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:19,960
it back there. So it's kind of like I said,

903
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,199
double where it's like, Okay, all the people that are

904
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:24,880
shitty to him, they get away, and you know how

905
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,199
he became the joker while he's gonna unbecome the joker

906
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,760
in this movie, which I don't think is like Arthur

907
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,400
Fleck is still like a character by himself. That's interesting,

908
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:36,440
but as we said, just don't think it's earned and

909
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,800
it doesn't match up with certain things that happens. Again,

910
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,559
why is he run from prison? And even then I

911
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:44,000
guess his pitch because, like I said, he does not

912
00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:47,480
say that he wants the death penalty his pitches. I'm

913
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:50,599
not the joker. So if he's saying that, he's just

914
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:52,719
saying that he's a killer. But he's saying like, oh,

915
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,519
I'm sorry, regret it. I regret it, and I'd like

916
00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:57,840
another chance. But it was like, well, if you're just

917
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,960
a killer, then like you deserve second chance. Many yeah,

918
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,840
like yeah, you just admitted to another one. It's like,

919
00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:07,360
what's your angle? Here, and that's why I was kind

920
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,800
of hoping it was like an act when that therapist

921
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:12,239
said like, oh, I think he pretends, and I thought, oh,

922
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,000
this would be cool, like he pretends he's sympathetic and

923
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:17,400
he uses that to get out of the situation somehow.

924
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,000
But no, I guess he was just he was just sympathetic.

925
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:24,880
Which again when later on it's just a few episodes,

926
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:28,440
a few episodes, a few twenty fifteen minutes ago, he's

927
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,480
in the prison and all the criminals are losing their mind.

928
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:34,440
They're yelling, and he's like laughing, but it's not that

929
00:44:34,559 --> 00:44:37,440
like hold back like nervous laugh. It's like the oh

930
00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,039
fucking Joker laugh all these people and you're seeing like

931
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,639
how like in an Arkham City Joker gets some goons

932
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:45,000
because they've all like all the cause of Joker. So

933
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:47,000
it's like it's not like he's off his meds and

934
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:50,199
he's like, I don't know, he even fires his lawyer

935
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,320
so he can become the fucking Joker. So it's just

936
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,519
like he's he wants to be the Joker. So it

937
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:58,280
just doesn't track it. Like I said, it would have

938
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,320
been different than the whole movie. I people are trying

939
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,159
to pull it out of him, and he doesn't want that,

940
00:45:03,199 --> 00:45:05,119
and Harley doesn't want that because even in the first

941
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:07,360
movie when they say, oh, like, are you wearing that

942
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,639
makeup because the riots, and it says, no, that has

943
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:11,800
nothing to do with me. So they could have done that.

944
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,239
They could have went the whole time of like, oh,

945
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,280
I don't really want to become the Joker again, like

946
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,840
that's a bad thing, but they didn't. It felt like

947
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,719
he Harley's like, you should go with your meds and

948
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,480
he's like, oh, I already am, like he said in

949
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:23,239
a way like he was excited about it. So it's like,

950
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,239
I don't fucking know. It's it's this movie makes it

951
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,599
very confusing of what they, you know, want with Arthur

952
00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:31,639
to do. And I think that's not great because even

953
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:33,639
the first one has mental health, but I think there's

954
00:45:33,679 --> 00:45:35,960
a through line for that character, you know.

955
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: So I feel like the mental health aspect is even

956
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:44,239
like it's more relevant and maybe that's not the best term,

957
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,440
but it's just executed better. Yeah, Like you know, like

958
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,119
like it is a big shadow over our character the

959
00:45:51,159 --> 00:45:53,880
whole movie, and it's shown that he just doesn't have

960
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,159
the support that he clearly needs like support system. The

961
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:00,719
city's like taking away these social service from him, and

962
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,440
it's just, yeah, he's he's a murderer and definitely not

963
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:07,360
a good person. But like you, like we were saying

964
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,199
earlier and even just on the Red sho it's like

965
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,199
the movie still makes you feel for this character because

966
00:46:12,199 --> 00:46:14,079
he is still a human even though he is a

967
00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:17,039
murderer and going through all these things, like he still

968
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,039
was dealt a shitty hand, like he yes, he shouldn't

969
00:46:20,039 --> 00:46:22,639
have been this individual, right, like he was abused as

970
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,639
a child that like he couldn't defend himself and just

971
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,920
thrown in that situation. So you do feel for him

972
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,239
even though he ends up being a murderer. So and

973
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,119
this movie just they just they just don't really do

974
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:38,880
that at all. But yeah, and then something else that

975
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,840
I found really confusing in comparison to the first film

976
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,280
is the first film there's a bunch of moments where

977
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,519
it's very clearly, well maybe not it's very clearly, but

978
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,559
it's in Arthur's head of things that are going on,

979
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,559
whether it's the relationship with as he beats or his

980
00:46:53,639 --> 00:47:00,119
comedy routine, and it's it's like the trick is kind

981
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:02,159
of revealed later on the film, so you know exactly

982
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:06,000
what's happening, and then in this one it I guess

983
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,519
at moments it's pretty obvious when it is a dream

984
00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:12,360
sequence because he's on Broadway or like top dancing with

985
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,440
Harley and he's not.

986
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,159
Speaker 1: Even with people. They're like like sometimes they sing, but

987
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,960
even then, like Tara said, there's characters like shut up

988
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,920
something sing, so you can tell there's times where they're

989
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,840
actually singing out loud. But when they go to a

990
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,119
different world, it's not like with Zazzi Beats. It's more

991
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:30,920
like the Murray Hallucination when it's like, yeah, you're a

992
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,079
good son, like almost all of them are that movie.

993
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:35,519
There is no like Zazzy Beats, like.

994
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,559
Speaker 2: All that is yeah, feeling like, oh my god, that

995
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:40,079
wasn't the case this whole time.

996
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,079
Speaker 1: Which I was worried. When they're talking about the stairwell,

997
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:43,840
when she's like, oh, the idea is over, I'm like

998
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,559
when she's like, oh, we weren't ever gonna get away,

999
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:47,199
I'm like, oh, please don't tell me. They're just fucking

1000
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,320
in a jail cell somewhere, like talking about what they

1001
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,199
would have done, and I'm glad they at least didn't

1002
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,159
go that route. But I was worrying it was happening.

1003
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,559
Speaker 2: But like in the in terms of Harley, like, did

1004
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:00,920
that really happen that she just got allowed to go

1005
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,719
visit him in his cell and they just fucked in

1006
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,199
the cell like that was a dream?

1007
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: Right? No?

1008
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,079
Speaker 2: I think there's some like it doesn't like it seems

1009
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:10,599
like the logistically that is not possible that that would

1010
00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:12,679
have happened, that the guards would have just allowed her

1011
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:14,119
to go in there for them to just bone.

1012
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,559
Speaker 1: Well, I think because that I think it is the

1013
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:20,280
case because I think the reveal that she has money,

1014
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,679
I think that's how that happened. If she paid them off.

1015
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,079
That's how I took it. It's like that's how because

1016
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,400
even when she goes to see them, the guys say

1017
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,119
off the bars, off the bars, that stills like that

1018
00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:32,320
would not be allowed in real life of the guy

1019
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,280
it's currently on trial. And then the the let's just

1020
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,960
say the wife character is scenting and is like all

1021
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:40,199
hugging up on him. So I think that did happen

1022
00:48:40,199 --> 00:48:43,840
and we got the most on purpose pitiful sex scene

1023
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,840
of all time. Arthur needs to work on his there.

1024
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just like.

1025
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,559
Speaker 1: He's just jumping up like a frog. But that's probably

1026
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:54,440
do it. Other than other than which they made a

1027
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:56,440
little cut of like when the lawyer's time I was

1028
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,360
abused and said sexual abuse, they show Arthur's face like

1029
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,440
he just flinches quickly and then goes back to drawing.

1030
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,159
But other than that, I'm gonna assume that Arthur has

1031
00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:05,920
not been with a woman, so that was probably his

1032
00:49:06,679 --> 00:49:10,440
first time too. So and uh, and I get. The

1033
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,119
thing that I don't know is if she was actually

1034
00:49:12,119 --> 00:49:14,320
pregnant or not, because she just said He says like, oh,

1035
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,679
we're gonna have a child together, and she just walks off.

1036
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,800
So it's like, but the thing I wanted to mention

1037
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,599
before I forgot, they did say at the end, before

1038
00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:23,199
I got killed, there was someone there to visit him,

1039
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,199
and I wonder who it was. We'll never know.

1040
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:30,199
Speaker 2: It's the guard just baiting him to get and then yeah, okay,

1041
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,199
it just seemed really orchestrated. And it's not like the

1042
00:49:32,199 --> 00:49:34,119
guard came back like are you cold be Yeah, it

1043
00:49:34,199 --> 00:49:36,079
could be yeah, And it just seemed like they're distance

1044
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:37,840
away from each other was kind of sketchy, like it

1045
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:40,159
just seemed like a really obvious ambush to me.

1046
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,079
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, you're probably right, But I like to

1047
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:44,639
think maybe someone's out there, you know, maybe maybe it's

1048
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,320
uh no, say Thomas Wayne, he's dead. I don't know

1049
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:52,719
who it would be. It's Bruce Wayne. Yeah he's waiting. Yeah, Yeah,

1050
00:49:53,519 --> 00:49:55,320
what were we talking about, Well, we'll take an ad

1051
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:57,119
break right here and then we'll get back on tracks.

1052
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,039
We'll be right back and we're where we want to go.

1053
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: Taylor stepped away. We were talking about just like the

1054
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,920
mental health aspect and the sex. Yeah, the sex to

1055
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:11,760
put a set.

1056
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:12,159
Speaker 1: How you do it?

1057
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,119
Speaker 2: I I was bringing up that I felt like that

1058
00:50:16,199 --> 00:50:18,679
scene didn't actually happen and it was his mind even

1059
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,400
though it seemed like it was. And then Travis made

1060
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,360
the argument, that's probably because she just has a lot

1061
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,360
of power and money to pay off the guards to

1062
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,760
get in there. Was it obvious for you? Because for me,

1063
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,559
I'm like, there's no way that actually happened, Like this

1064
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,400
just seems like a total dream. But then they just

1065
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,679
for the rest of the film, it's just running with

1066
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:36,639
that like that actually did happen.

1067
00:50:36,679 --> 00:50:39,519
Speaker 3: I thought, because yeah, we got the whole fake relationship

1068
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:42,320
and the first one that he was like sleeping, like, yeah.

1069
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 2: So I thought it was gonna be something like that.

1070
00:50:44,079 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, But then I guess, yeah, I almost thought like

1071
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,639
we would they wouldn't necessarily repeat that and we would

1072
00:50:50,679 --> 00:50:53,280
get like a resolution quickly about it to see what

1073
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,719
was really going on. And I thought for sure, like

1074
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,119
when he's having sex with her and like they actually

1075
00:50:58,159 --> 00:50:59,960
were doing it, it was gonna cut to like she's

1076
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:02,880
not actually in the room and he's just like having

1077
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,280
like on the White House scene exactly.

1078
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 4: But no, he was really hugely doing it.

1079
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 2: So the tool Ship, Yeah, so he was.

1080
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,119
Speaker 3: He was really having a having a good time in there,

1081
00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:20,840
and uh yeah, I just think she was just an

1082
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:21,960
expert manipulator.

1083
00:51:23,559 --> 00:51:25,079
Speaker 1: Uh yeah.

1084
00:51:25,199 --> 00:51:30,039
Speaker 3: So just very interesting scene all around with her and

1085
00:51:30,159 --> 00:51:32,480
just her obsession with him, and it was just another

1086
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:35,400
another step in the direction of just trying to unleash

1087
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,440
him and turn him into a back into the Joker.

1088
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,360
But I didn't I didn't believe that she was telling

1089
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,880
the truth when she said she was pregnant. It just

1090
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,800
seemed pretty pretty suss. But I've agree with you though

1091
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,239
in the hallway with his death, you said that you

1092
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,960
felt like it was an ambush and there wasn't really

1093
00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:53,519
anyone that that he had to.

1094
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 4: Go and meet, like when he's watching the TV.

1095
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 3: And then the main guy who's the main warden guy

1096
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,960
walking by like nods his cap towards Arthur, and then

1097
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,599
after that you get the other guys saying.

1098
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 4: Oh, in the hallway, let's go, let's go.

1099
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:09,119
Speaker 3: It's just it's all way too set up, like they're

1100
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:11,239
all too chipper with him, and I just feel like

1101
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,079
it is a it is like you're leading this guy

1102
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:17,760
to go and meet someone, but you out, you fast

1103
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:19,920
walk and leave him behind, and then you don't go

1104
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:22,639
back to check. Like it's just it's all it's a

1105
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:23,360
lot of suss.

1106
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, mm hmm.

1107
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:28,719
Speaker 3: I can't remember what the initial question was though after.

1108
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: This whatever was, we were just talking about like the

1109
00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:36,239
mental health aspect, and right for me, it just felt

1110
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:39,360
a lot more clear and stronger in the first film.

1111
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,320
Where is this one. It's just it's it's talked about,

1112
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,519
but it's it's not It's not like, I don't know,

1113
00:52:45,559 --> 00:52:47,280
I don't want to say, it's not like the main

1114
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:50,880
cove like cloud of the film, but it kind of

1115
00:52:51,039 --> 00:52:53,400
is in comparison to the first one in my opinion.

1116
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 3: But I think that's where the musical aspect comes in

1117
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,679
to kind of alleviate that you don't feel like it's

1118
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:01,239
as heavy, because you're totally right. The first one you

1119
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:04,079
feel it. It's it's really weighs you down. And that

1120
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:08,079
first one, it is a very heavy film, and you

1121
00:53:08,159 --> 00:53:10,239
just you're you're there with Arthur as he's trying to

1122
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:15,559
deal with this mental, this mental his capacity of it,

1123
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:18,639
I guess, just being abused, and just how shitty Gotham

1124
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:21,000
really really is and how badly people are treating each other.

1125
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:23,760
And in this one, you're only getting it from just

1126
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,559
the guards. Really, you're not getting it from any other

1127
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:27,559
outside forces.

1128
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 4: Like when you when you see the people that.

1129
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 3: Are in Arthur's life from that first one, the counselor

1130
00:53:33,119 --> 00:53:34,360
and whatnot, trying to kind of.

1131
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,800
Speaker 4: Be there for him, and he's just back in this.

1132
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yes she was.

1133
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,639
Speaker 3: So you have them, have you have Arthur on that

1134
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:43,760
first one calling them out saying, oh, you guys don't.

1135
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:44,559
Speaker 4: Really care, It's just a job.

1136
00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 2: Yeada, YadA, YadA.

1137
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 3: They lightly tiptoed on that in here, mostly just with

1138
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,719
the reporter, the tropic thunder guy, just trying to conduct

1139
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,000
the interview when and Arthur's like, you know, you guys

1140
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:57,239
want to.

1141
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,119
Speaker 4: Keep focusing on the past. We should be talking about

1142
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:00,840
right now. Yeah, yeah, YadA.

1143
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 3: But it's a shame that they didn't really explore that

1144
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,679
more the fact that like, hey, there's there's a lot

1145
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,880
of bullshit going on, Like you said, Travis, you thought

1146
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,679
that they would kind of highlight in the courtroom or

1147
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,480
you thought that from maybe they would talk about the

1148
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:17,800
guard or what was that you.

1149
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,599
Speaker 1: Kirklelh And I brought that as Kirk.

1150
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just i'd like and just talk about the

1151
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,119
shittiness and because yeah, they even did it on the

1152
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:27,159
Murder of the Franklin Murray Show on the first one

1153
00:54:27,199 --> 00:54:29,480
as well, just what he's talking about, how people are

1154
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,440
horrible in the city and yadda, YadA, YadA, And I

1155
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:35,679
feel like that is just a missed opportunity. They didn't

1156
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:39,119
really reinforce that. To your your credit, Kurklum, what you

1157
00:54:39,159 --> 00:54:41,719
were saying, and just how this compressive to the first one,

1158
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,840
didn't really do a lot on the topic of the

1159
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,639
mental health and just that aesthetic.

1160
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:50,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1161
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:52,039
Speaker 1: No, it's interesting because I think you're right with the

1162
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:54,320
musical aspects they do supplement it a little bit, but

1163
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,559
I think it's it's kind of all over because I

1164
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:58,400
feel like it's a bigger deal, like him going off

1165
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,400
as medicine the first one big deal. We're in the

1166
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:02,599
first acts, like, hey, I'm off the Mets and you're

1167
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:05,519
kind of off the races, right, so that's not as

1168
00:55:05,519 --> 00:55:07,639
big a deal. And I feel like they try to

1169
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:10,760
do the split personality thing, but they go in and

1170
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,239
out on that because you most of the time it's

1171
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:18,719
I don't know, because even I guess for me another

1172
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,679
thing that like it's a I guess a minor critique,

1173
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:23,000
but not really. I guess it's a big one for

1174
00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:26,679
my personal liking. I didn't mind a little bit of

1175
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,039
walking doing like the Southern lawyer sort of gimmick for

1176
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:33,480
a bit, but I wish he did it for like

1177
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:36,000
twenty five percent and then gone to like joker mode,

1178
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,800
because as we talk about, when he is on the

1179
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,039
stage with Murray, he feels like a different character and

1180
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:44,920
we didn't really get to see that character again this

1181
00:55:45,079 --> 00:55:47,320
go around. In my opinion, like that version of him,

1182
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,119
And he even said, I think that's what we get

1183
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:51,360
because he's like, oh, I was gonna sit down and

1184
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,039
just go off on you guys. But that's when he

1185
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:55,199
talks about how he's you know, not the joker. But

1186
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,440
I kind of was missing that, so I wish that

1187
00:55:58,519 --> 00:56:00,239
kind of happened. You could have had a Harley and

1188
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,840
like getting all excited by that because I liked it enough.

1189
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,639
But eventually, especially once it's seeing gout more serious, it's like, okay,

1190
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,760
you can drop the like the accent, but yeah, so

1191
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,760
I I think the mental stuff is still around, but yeah,

1192
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,119
it's definitely not as strong, and it's it's just a

1193
00:56:20,159 --> 00:56:23,320
bit more. It's like we said about the ending, it's

1194
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,519
just a bit more convoluted this go around, because they

1195
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:31,280
have stuff where, you know, Puddles is saying you were

1196
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,719
nice guy, and you know, you're all nice to me,

1197
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,280
so this messes me up and you can see him

1198
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,480
kind of like breaking a little bit. But then that's

1199
00:56:37,519 --> 00:56:40,039
where I almost needed, like the entire trial to be

1200
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:42,239
like that is. It's kind of it's like that one

1201
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,320
conversation with that guy just maybe flips him and decides, oh,

1202
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,440
you know what, maybe I'm not a joker, maybe I'm

1203
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,360
off for a fuck. It's like, well, Gary was still

1204
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,760
around in the first movie, and you still flipped and

1205
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,400
you went through your shit, right, so it's not like,

1206
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,400
why what about Gary this time? Is doing anything doing?

1207
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,039
Especially because Lee's there, which again good humor going on

1208
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:03,159
on with Lee where he's always looking for her lawyers

1209
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:06,039
in the middle of a big depusition, very serious, and

1210
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:08,199
then he passed her note can least sit close.

1211
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 2: Right about to go up to do it. She's like

1212
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,119
got all of her notes right in her mind, last

1213
00:57:12,159 --> 00:57:14,079
note things she's seen like can you get her a

1214
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:14,960
better seat tomorrow?

1215
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that stuff really good. I liked it.

1216
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,800
I can't I still laughed a lot of this on

1217
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,199
like purpose stuff. I don't think there's anything like oh

1218
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:26,800
so bad I laughed at but yeah, and good job.

1219
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,280
I like that actress of place lawyer. She's been in

1220
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:32,159
tons of stuff. But uh yeah, I thought that flip

1221
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,880
of him when he was gonna be his own lawyer

1222
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,559
was gonna be really exciting. But I don't think. I

1223
00:57:37,559 --> 00:57:39,760
don't think I got I didn't get like my like

1224
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,760
a joker scene, which again I think the ending is trying.

1225
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,719
Did you guys feel that at all with Lee and

1226
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:47,920
the two other jokers that they're trying to do some

1227
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,159
sort of messaging about like owning certain things, or was

1228
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:54,119
I reading too much into that like an idea of

1229
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:56,480
the joke because they kidnap them, they're like, I don't

1230
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:57,960
know what their plan was, but I think they're gonna

1231
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,320
like force them to still just be the joker. I

1232
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,559
don't know what their those two goons plans was.

1233
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 2: I think it's a really good observation and one that

1234
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:07,920
now that you mentioned it, it's like, oh, yeah, that

1235
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,039
actually makes a lot more sense in hindsight. Maybe I'm

1236
00:58:11,039 --> 00:58:13,039
just a little bit too smooth brain to notice that

1237
00:58:13,719 --> 00:58:16,360
in the actual film, but no, like it totally makes

1238
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:21,159
a sense, especially with like maybe certain people idolizing let's

1239
00:58:21,199 --> 00:58:23,400
just say a celebrity for example, and it's just like

1240
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,000
I love this person in this movie, so therefore they're

1241
00:58:26,119 --> 00:58:29,679
my messiah, and like I love this character that they portrayed,

1242
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:31,880
so this must be them. And then that's probably like

1243
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,039
they're just playing a character, right, Oh yeah, especially if

1244
00:58:35,039 --> 00:58:37,000
you throw in a mental health aspect, like a lot

1245
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:41,159
of unhealthy individuals would think that that is reality and

1246
00:58:41,239 --> 00:58:44,239
like just get obsessed with it. And I think that

1247
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:47,840
parallels very well with this Arthur Fleck story. Even from

1248
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,679
the first film right of him just looking at Murray

1249
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:52,800
as being the father figure that he was, but when

1250
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,639
he actually meets him, he's just a total asshole to

1251
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:58,119
him and just not really a good person of just

1252
00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:01,320
bullying someone on stage just for his own fame and clout.

1253
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,360
So yeah, I think it like as a whole of

1254
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,639
just both these movies, it definitely is something that is

1255
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,679
relevant with what did you even say the term it's

1256
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:17,199
getting late now, I don't just toxic fandom.

1257
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it has maybe a bit to

1258
00:59:19,199 --> 00:59:21,559
do with like the first movie, to remember everyone was

1259
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:24,480
worried about, like oh what, like maybe it's they're trying

1260
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:26,679
a way to be like, hey, if you didn't get it,

1261
00:59:26,719 --> 00:59:29,760
like Joker, don't cheer for Joker, like he's not a

1262
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,000
good guy. And for me, I was always annoyed because

1263
00:59:33,039 --> 00:59:35,280
I just thought like the message of that movie was

1264
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,480
not to for anyone that was like, oh, well, we

1265
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:41,079
got to worry about like making a mentally ill patient,

1266
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:44,840
you know, become the Joker and us you know, believing that. Again,

1267
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:46,519
I still think in that movie they show Okay, the

1268
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,880
system failed them, but he also did some things along

1269
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,199
the way too that like kind of helps that. So

1270
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,360
I guess I never took that and maybe that's where

1271
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:56,760
they were trying to take of it. I never took

1272
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:58,920
that as like, oh well that's why. Especially just even

1273
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:01,719
him doing that speech about I'm not the Joker is

1274
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,239
almost like it makes us mad, and maybe that's the

1275
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,199
design purpose is like yeah, you Joker fans, you're gonna

1276
01:00:07,239 --> 01:00:09,039
be mad this because you want to be Joker, but

1277
01:00:09,039 --> 01:00:11,519
he's not the same way, like we wouldn't want to

1278
01:00:11,639 --> 01:00:13,320
you to be Joker. But it's like yeah, but like

1279
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:16,000
I think you went down that route already. But I

1280
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,559
think they're trying to get some there. And again I

1281
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,239
think there there's a story, there's a storyline aspect you

1282
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:23,519
can do with that, but I think just attack it

1283
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:25,519
on the third act is maybe a little too late.

1284
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you want to comments or anything we just mentioned?

1285
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:33,239
I was just gonna go in a different direction. No, no,

1286
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:36,760
go for you perfect. I was gonna ask you specifically

1287
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,159
Travis this Taylor. Of course you can comment if you want,

1288
01:00:39,159 --> 01:00:41,599
but just the whole idea, well, you're the you're the

1289
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,960
clown Prince podcast. I got asked, I'll see you for

1290
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,760
the idea of what the Joker is and his basically

1291
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,119
being the complete opposite of what Mattman is, right, and

1292
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:55,000
just that's what makes that dynamic so intriguing and how

1293
01:00:55,079 --> 01:00:57,880
it's you know, the great Keith Ledger said in the

1294
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:01,480
Dark Knight film, it's like an impossible oh my gosh,

1295
01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:06,000
what is it? An immovable object? Meaning in course, and

1296
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:10,719
just that whole dynamic of like and you know, you

1297
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,199
can make the arguments that, especially for the first film,

1298
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:15,519
that it's not really a joker film, like like it's

1299
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:19,760
an Arthur Fleck tail because like Arthur Fleck, he he

1300
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:23,840
did get Delta a shitty hand and a lot of

1301
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,480
the system that did fail him, even though you know

1302
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:29,480
he he met halfway and then committed these.

1303
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,480
Speaker 1: Murders and even mits that it's him in this movie, right, Yeah,

1304
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:34,679
he just says that he had control and stuff.

1305
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: So and you do feel for him at many times,

1306
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,840
Like is that a trait that you like, you're a

1307
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,760
stereotypical joker you would want to have?

1308
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,599
Speaker 1: No, I think people don't like that because I think

1309
01:01:44,719 --> 01:01:47,719
people also brought which I guess is fair of Hey,

1310
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:49,920
I see this and not that it happened, right, but

1311
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,280
I see this guy his struggles. Why do I want

1312
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:53,880
to see Batman beat the shit out of him when

1313
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,840
I know he had like abusive home stuff. So I

1314
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,320
think it only works here. I think most time Joker,

1315
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:03,320
I think the version people like the most is the

1316
01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:05,960
you don't know his name, you don't know where he

1317
01:02:06,039 --> 01:02:09,559
came from. He's just like in Enigma, right. I kind

1318
01:02:09,599 --> 01:02:11,800
of like a little bit of that. I do. I've

1319
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:13,679
always said the Heath Ledgers stuff, that it works for

1320
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,559
that movie. I like my Joker to be acid, bleach

1321
01:02:16,599 --> 01:02:19,000
and everything. But I prefer Joker as far as what

1322
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:21,360
I thought they were gonna maybe do is. I like

1323
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:25,519
Joker acting crazy, but he's still I'm not saying he's

1324
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:28,639
not like a little kooky and missing some marbles, but

1325
01:02:28,679 --> 01:02:31,679
like he still has it mostly together. He's not a

1326
01:02:31,679 --> 01:02:35,199
guy rolling his vcs or just laughing whenever. I think

1327
01:02:35,199 --> 01:02:37,280
it's a guy that portrays that it. So that's the thing,

1328
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,800
Like I think most people like Joker to be cunning

1329
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,079
and smart, where like this guy is. He wasn't that

1330
01:02:42,119 --> 01:02:43,840
way in the first one. I always talked about this

1331
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,119
Joker like he had like if you're looking at stats,

1332
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:48,440
he had like the ultimate luck stat Like the first

1333
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,480
movie that happened. Say anything to this, he's about to

1334
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,559
go to prison forever, death penalty, and then a fucking

1335
01:02:53,639 --> 01:02:55,599
explosion happens, and that's where I took It's like, oh,

1336
01:02:55,639 --> 01:02:57,559
it's like the Charles Manson sort of thing. But no,

1337
01:02:57,679 --> 01:03:01,880
most most jokers are the they're an enigma. You don't know.

1338
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,639
It's like, you know, like a penny Wise, you don't

1339
01:03:04,679 --> 01:03:06,840
know where he came from. When they've they've tried to

1340
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,519
be like, oh, he was a criminal, this and that,

1341
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:11,000
but I think that's people's preferred version. They don't like

1342
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:13,400
a joke or origin or to know his like full

1343
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:15,159
motivations per se.

1344
01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:17,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's why I get so drawn to

1345
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:21,039
Like the performance was phenomenal, but specifically Heath's tale and

1346
01:03:21,079 --> 01:03:23,519
like Christopher Nolan's telling of that, because that's that right,

1347
01:03:23,559 --> 01:03:25,880
and like he gives the origin of like, you know,

1348
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,800
my father was very abusive, tod this to me and like, okay,

1349
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,159
you can make the argument that wow, like he had

1350
01:03:31,159 --> 01:03:33,280
a rough hand, but then he also changes the story

1351
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:35,239
multiple times, so it's like I can't even believe what

1352
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,320
he's saying. So he is a wild card and there's

1353
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,800
many times where he's acting crazy, but it feels like

1354
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:42,760
he is acting it right because he is still like

1355
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,159
the one running the show and still this crime boss.

1356
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: So one of my favorite lines in the Dark Night

1357
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:49,760
is when he has that mob meeting and like you're crazy.

1358
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:52,639
He just like dead Penny's like, no, I'm not, I'm

1359
01:03:52,639 --> 01:03:54,679
not crazy, and then he goes back to being crazy.

1360
01:03:54,679 --> 01:03:57,440
But it's like, is he just a crazy guy that

1361
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,079
if you say you're crazy he doesn't like that, or

1362
01:03:59,159 --> 01:04:01,159
is that him break Kara for a moment, like no,

1363
01:04:01,239 --> 01:04:03,239
I'm not fucking great, Like I know what's going on

1364
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:05,519
here and that's what I prefer. But that's where I like,

1365
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,400
that's where I never had a problem with this. I

1366
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,559
guess he's not the Joker now, but like this version

1367
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:13,800
because like, okay, you've done that is what is this version?

1368
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,039
What is there a Joker of? Like literally, okay, mental

1369
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:19,559
health and abuse creates them, right, and there's some issues,

1370
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:22,119
but I'm fine if it kind of makes you uncomfortable.

1371
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:25,360
But again, in this movie, it's just our Arthur just

1372
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,559
had a shit life and he decided to kill some

1373
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:30,679
people and he regrets it. It's like, Okay, I guess

1374
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,519
I don't look at that. At the end of Joker,

1375
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:36,480
one of him being too regretful. But I guess he's

1376
01:04:36,519 --> 01:04:38,039
had two years to think about it, so I guess

1377
01:04:38,039 --> 01:04:38,400
he is.

1378
01:04:38,679 --> 01:04:40,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just something I wanted to bring up on

1379
01:04:40,719 --> 01:04:41,159
the retroll.

1380
01:04:41,159 --> 01:04:44,519
Speaker 1: I forgot too, So there we go, what about you too?

1381
01:04:44,639 --> 01:04:45,880
We want to go next?

1382
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,159
Speaker 3: Oh what did you guys think of the intro? The

1383
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:53,840
classic like Looney Tunes kind of style thing. I really

1384
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:55,360
enjoyed it, and I thought it was a very fun,

1385
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,760
kind of like, I guess, a recap of the first

1386
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,639
film in a weird way, but in his own kind

1387
01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:02,360
of Well.

1388
01:05:02,199 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: That would have been the TV movie that they kid

1389
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:05,559
talked about, right that was shown?

1390
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: I didn't think so.

1391
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:08,840
Speaker 2: I don't think so either.

1392
01:05:09,199 --> 01:05:11,719
Speaker 1: No. I was hoping we were gonna see clear clips

1393
01:05:11,719 --> 01:05:13,239
of the TV movie and it's like, who were they

1394
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:15,800
gonna get to play walking? But I think it was

1395
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:20,960
something different, which a great comedic moment when him and

1396
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,880
before a trial, he's talking to Lee because he found it.

1397
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,800
Lee lie to him, but he's like, oh, what about

1398
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,480
the movie? Is that bad? She go the movie is good.

1399
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,320
I only watched like four or five times, but it's good.

1400
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:32,039
And then Zazzi beats is on the stand and it's

1401
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:33,719
like oh, and I had to watch that awful movie.

1402
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:36,599
And he looks back at Awful and she's like, no, no,

1403
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:39,920
it's good. And then he's like smiling and like good stuff,

1404
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,159
you know, like yeah.

1405
01:05:43,159 --> 01:05:45,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I totally thought that was the TV

1406
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:47,639
movie that like it's like why else would we show this?

1407
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,480
And it's not even like it's a true recap because

1408
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,000
it's like there's no cops that come in and beat

1409
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,400
the shit out of like on stage. But I like

1410
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,360
the vibe, especially to start the movie, because I'm like,

1411
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,920
what the fuck are we in for? But yeah, I

1412
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,400
don't know it was in hindsight, it's it's an interesting

1413
01:06:04,519 --> 01:06:06,000
choice and.

1414
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,079
Speaker 1: That pausits the whole split personality thing though, right, and

1415
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:13,559
that's where it's like again he says that's not the case,

1416
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:15,239
but they have like the shadow of him and it

1417
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,639
locks them up and takes the like the paint, and

1418
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,880
I to me, that's what I did like about this version.

1419
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,000
I always liked that pitch of they said the first

1420
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:26,000
time of Oh, his laugh in like a meta sense

1421
01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:28,599
is almost like the joker trying to get out right,

1422
01:06:28,639 --> 01:06:31,519
And I kind of like that. The abuse and the

1423
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:34,000
mental health crux is that he's been put in it

1424
01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:37,199
has created this thing that is the Joker. So that's

1425
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:38,840
why again it's weird at the end when he can

1426
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,280
kind of just go back to being it feels like

1427
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,280
at the end of times he's Arthur on some meds

1428
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,440
and not the Joker. But that's where I kind of

1429
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:48,199
liked this, where it's like, Okay, I took the ending

1430
01:06:48,239 --> 01:06:50,119
of the first movie, he accepted that, but yeah he's

1431
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:52,760
maybe he's not the Joker, but he's still that's in

1432
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,079
him right And even then, multiple times they have characters

1433
01:06:55,119 --> 01:06:57,639
asking like, oh, can I talk to Joker or what

1434
01:06:57,679 --> 01:06:59,760
would Jokers say? They do refer to him as like

1435
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,079
a almost different entity, and I don't mind that. It's

1436
01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:06,880
just when he obviously again confirms it's not him. But yeah,

1437
01:07:07,199 --> 01:07:10,559
I liked it was something something different, something fresh to

1438
01:07:10,599 --> 01:07:12,840
start off the film that I wasn't expecting. So it

1439
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:14,360
was nice to get the old war They did the

1440
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,119
old Warner Brothers logo last time. This time they did

1441
01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:19,280
like the animation ones, so that was fun to see.

1442
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,960
I want to shout out Brendan Gleeson really liked him

1443
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,480
in this movie, Like I think he's just like a

1444
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,480
phenomenal actor. Obviously we've talked about him multiple things, but

1445
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,760
he did such a good job of you would never

1446
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,800
know was he talking down to Arthur, was he actually

1447
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,519
joining Arthur? Was he making fun of Arthur? Because he

1448
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:40,840
did all those things where there's times where all of

1449
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,320
their guards be shitting on him and he would like

1450
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,400
genuinely stand up for him. I thought he was gonna

1451
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,559
have some really big ald tear motive to get him

1452
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:50,800
that singing class, and I don't nothing was.

1453
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 2: Really revealed, like like songs, like singing himself, like he

1454
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:56,440
just wanted to sing Yeah, hilarious.

1455
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 1: But then you got moments where that happens and they

1456
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,519
bond and he gives him a cigarette and Arthur pats

1457
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:02,320
him on the back, but then he just fucking turns

1458
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:04,920
around like an abusive dead and just beats hits him

1459
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,159
in the head and just like yeah, that's enough. Like that.

1460
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,119
I loved the performance.

1461
01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 2: I love that we don't even see his face too

1462
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,519
in that moment, like it's just like a backshot and

1463
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:15,239
he just stops for a second and then just fucking yeah,

1464
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,079
smacks in the back of that. It's not like Arthur

1465
01:08:17,199 --> 01:08:19,880
is like what the hell is that for? It's like, okay, yeah.

1466
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:20,760
Speaker 1: This IS's just accepted.

1467
01:08:21,159 --> 01:08:22,039
Speaker 2: It can't been a thing.

1468
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:24,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can't do anything. So no, I thought

1469
01:08:24,199 --> 01:08:27,560
that performance was like a low key, very fun performance.

1470
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,760
I think he did a very good job and I

1471
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,159
was mad he didn't get his come up and sp uh. Yeah. No,

1472
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,640
I really liked for just like a minor and it's

1473
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,279
a minor in the story, but there's not much she's

1474
01:08:41,319 --> 01:08:42,840
not like he comes in the third act and he's

1475
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:44,439
the one that blows the bomb, right, but he's just

1476
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,119
like another kind of shitty person. But it's kind of

1477
01:08:47,159 --> 01:08:50,439
like the Murray thing of like, yeah, he's kind of shitty,

1478
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,520
but these are also like all shitty people he's dealing with.

1479
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,960
Like it That is a strength this movie again that

1480
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,359
they make us sometimes feel sympathetic for a guy that

1481
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,800
kills his mother, killed an innocent talk show host because

1482
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:03,560
you're like, oh, this guard's treating him like ship, but

1483
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,880
really like, well, well why should we care because this

1484
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:09,760
is like Arthur is a shitty person in a sense, right,

1485
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,119
But they do a good job of making you feel

1486
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:14,079
uncomfortable with this guard.

1487
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh dear it happened. Oh when I saw

1488
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,600
his name, I was like oh man, this must be

1489
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,600
like Donald Gleason's dad or something. It is interesting. No,

1490
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:33,079
that is actually yeah, the hell I'MDB lied to me

1491
01:09:33,239 --> 01:09:34,960
so that he was he wasn't.

1492
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: Donald and Lourent. Yeah, and they're in Harry Potter together.

1493
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,520
Speaker 2: There you go. I'm happy now. Yeah. Matt I, Moody,

1494
01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:43,239
Martin Scorsese, he too was in the same He was

1495
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:43,840
the judge.

1496
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:45,399
Speaker 1: He was not the job.

1497
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,399
Speaker 2: Like for sure, every time I went to the judge,

1498
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:50,960
I'm like, holy fuck, Marty's in here.

1499
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,520
Speaker 1: That's what he did, and that that that was something

1500
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,880
where like I was fine with the whole oh you know,

1501
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,760
like by the law it says he can dress whichever

1502
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,560
way he wants. But he's just like, Okay, I don't

1503
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,439
want any outbursts from the crowd. The crowd continues outbursts

1504
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:08,159
for the entire movie. He's like, don't make.

1505
01:10:08,039 --> 01:10:09,359
Speaker 2: This a scene seem powerless?

1506
01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: Really yeah, when he's like and that like made it

1507
01:10:12,039 --> 01:10:14,520
feel like less believable in the sense like, oh is

1508
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,359
this fake? And it wasn't. But when he's like, yeah,

1509
01:10:16,359 --> 01:10:18,880
and I don't want to show, and Arthur's like standing

1510
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:20,800
up and doing his stand up routine. He gets the

1511
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,119
chair gets the microphone, like I feel like even just

1512
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:26,279
this voice he was doing the judge BK, knock this

1513
01:10:26,279 --> 01:10:29,199
shit off and talk normal, Like it felt like the

1514
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,319
that could have had more way to it or just

1515
01:10:32,399 --> 01:10:34,199
don't have the judge do that. But yeah, I just

1516
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:37,079
felt like Arthur was skinning away with like I'm not

1517
01:10:37,079 --> 01:10:39,640
gonna say murder, but anything in that courtroom because it's

1518
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,760
just like, oh, well, I guess technically he can do this,

1519
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:44,880
but it's like I don't know about that.

1520
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: But it seemed like every day of the trial, he's

1521
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,359
like just a reminder, I'm not putting up with any

1522
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:51,880
funny business, and then funny business would happen.

1523
01:10:52,079 --> 01:10:55,199
Speaker 1: The whole trial is funny business. You know, he's talking

1524
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:59,279
to the cameras and everything. So yeah, no, I that

1525
01:10:59,399 --> 01:11:02,039
was a just a moment. I got a chuckle out

1526
01:11:02,079 --> 01:11:07,039
of that classic kind of just movie crowd where lots

1527
01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:08,680
of cheering. I love when he came out the first

1528
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:10,920
time and he's given like the and that's the weird

1529
01:11:10,920 --> 01:11:14,439
thing because it's just like, yeah, like in the first

1530
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,000
movie talked about this where okay, his intention was not

1531
01:11:18,119 --> 01:11:21,239
to create like a clown mob, but when it happened

1532
01:11:21,399 --> 01:11:23,039
and he's accept by them. He's like, oh, there's finally

1533
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:26,039
people that accept me. So I feel like him even

1534
01:11:26,079 --> 01:11:29,560
becoming the Joker fits more with the Arthur we've met

1535
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:30,960
in the last movie, because he just want to be

1536
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,119
accepted one way or another, right, And if it's to

1537
01:11:33,159 --> 01:11:36,039
be Joker, then I'm gonna be Joker. And again, I

1538
01:11:36,119 --> 01:11:37,920
just think there was not enohing this movie for me

1539
01:11:38,039 --> 01:11:42,439
to believe him turning against that. So but yeah, again,

1540
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,520
funny funny moment there with him addressing the crowd. There's

1541
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:47,920
lots of funny moments, and the crowd is cheering a lot.

1542
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:49,399
And I do want to mention this because it's late

1543
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:52,439
and I don't want to forget it. I guess kudos

1544
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,279
to them. I got a little chucko a chuckle, A

1545
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:59,960
chuck a chuckle. Kudos to them for given Harvey Dan

1546
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:01,359
and his two face origin.

1547
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I know it's like, of course.

1548
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:06,640
Speaker 1: Bomb goes off. They show his body still live, but

1549
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:08,800
have his face gone. So you know what. I like

1550
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,600
that they committed to the bit of like, hey, you know,

1551
01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:15,760
things aren't like the comics, but they're still gonna happen.

1552
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:20,039
And Harvey Stilly came from Harvy two face. But yeah,

1553
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:23,159
my mind did not have any idea what was happening

1554
01:12:23,159 --> 01:12:25,520
when that wall blew up. I did, for a second think.

1555
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:29,039
I didn't think Batman, but I thought man, like, something's

1556
01:12:29,119 --> 01:12:31,960
happening here, and I guess kudos to them. He got

1557
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,119
away pretty easily. But yeah, he ends up with some

1558
01:12:34,159 --> 01:12:37,239
people that just are in love with him and want

1559
01:12:37,239 --> 01:12:39,359
to get him out of there, and then Arthur flees

1560
01:12:39,399 --> 01:12:43,079
the stairs and again he gets caught. So but yeah,

1561
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:44,880
good good surprisement with there at least.

1562
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:49,439
Speaker 2: So I was definitely shocked, and then immediately just thought

1563
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,760
of the hilarious image of his just fucking Batman and

1564
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,479
in this suit and everything. He's just just like martyring

1565
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:00,319
people with an explosion. You're come with me? Yeah, I

1566
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:05,479
just like the meme something else that was a big

1567
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,159
thing in this movie, just like smoking and like cigarettes

1568
01:13:09,279 --> 01:13:13,439
use and like massive in this film, and specifically in

1569
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,800
the early portion. I think it's what he's doing, maybe

1570
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,800
the interview or maybe beforehand, like when he gets his

1571
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,039
first cigarette and he's just doing like a big drag.

1572
01:13:21,399 --> 01:13:24,000
I'm not like a cigarette smoke or anything, but man,

1573
01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:26,159
the way that he was just inhaling I'm like, that

1574
01:13:26,319 --> 01:13:28,880
just looks like it just feels so fucking good. Just

1575
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,560
is like deep inhale. There's like a big butt on

1576
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:33,680
the end. I mean he's smoking throughout the whole film.

1577
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,560
Ladygaugu is smoking throughout the whole film. But I'm just like, man,

1578
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,039
that big deep drag he's taking right now, I'm just

1579
01:13:39,079 --> 01:13:42,760
I feel like I'm getting just like secondhand like like

1580
01:13:43,199 --> 01:13:44,960
like nicotine or what the hell you get from It

1581
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:48,640
just looked so tasty, even though smoking is terrible. But yeah,

1582
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:51,600
they sure made it look you know, we've talked about

1583
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:53,760
in the past just how smoking looks so badass or

1584
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,439
sex scenes in certain instances. But smoking's bad for you,

1585
01:13:57,479 --> 01:13:58,119
so don't do that.

1586
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:01,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't do it. Yeah smoking in this movie from.

1587
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,319
Speaker 2: But like if I'm on the death penalty, man, I'm

1588
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,479
I'm fucking smoking twenty packs a day at that point,

1589
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:07,600
you know, get it in you?

1590
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:08,439
Speaker 1: When do you have to lose?

1591
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 2: You know, so I can't donate your lungs, I guess

1592
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:12,640
to a good cause afterwards.

1593
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I want to show all this stuff

1594
01:14:16,359 --> 01:14:18,800
just because like before I forget, I liked the Meet

1595
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,960
You with Harley and Joker. I liked her setting up

1596
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,680
the that's a musical number. I really liked with them

1597
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,840
singing in the streets and the spotlights and everything. I

1598
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,760
enjoyed that. I like her starting the fire, and again

1599
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:31,119
he did want to just watch the movie, so that

1600
01:14:31,159 --> 01:14:33,479
was kind of a shout at all old Arthur, who

1601
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,680
like was a TV not kind of in a way.

1602
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,840
But yeah, I liked everything. I just could have used

1603
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,800
a little more, maybe some some bigger scenes there. But

1604
01:14:43,079 --> 01:14:47,079
I think great job singing, great job in the musicals parts.

1605
01:14:47,119 --> 01:14:50,720
So another good joke. When I she's talking about how

1606
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,840
she's gonna support me, he's like, Oh, I bought your

1607
01:14:53,239 --> 01:14:55,600
new like a part a place at your old apartment

1608
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,159
so when you're out you can come home. And he's like,

1609
01:14:57,159 --> 01:14:59,359
I want to go back there. Like there's a lot

1610
01:14:59,399 --> 01:15:01,760
of that stuff where there's like one look like just

1611
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,439
one leners, Oh that was the other one too. I

1612
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,880
send the nonsplores. But she's with interviewers like if he

1613
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,000
gets out, what are you gonna do? We're gonna build

1614
01:15:09,079 --> 01:15:10,800
a mountain, And then just one interview is like what

1615
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,039
does that mean? And then so the interview is like, Yeah,

1616
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:15,359
what the fuck are you talking about? Like I like

1617
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:19,520
that they again there's some good little moments in there.

1618
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,560
But yeah, I liked Harley Quinn but just our lady Gaga.

1619
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,560
But could could have used more. I could have used

1620
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:28,720
her getting another big scene and maybe there would have

1621
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:31,000
been some fun of them going on a road trip together.

1622
01:15:31,039 --> 01:15:32,920
I don't know, maation should be in the asylum longer.

1623
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:34,399
I don't know, because it feels like a big jump

1624
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:37,079
from she gets out to like instantly she's known as

1625
01:15:37,119 --> 01:15:40,039
like the Joker's girlfriend or whatever. It's like, okay, again,

1626
01:15:40,119 --> 01:15:41,840
we'ren't on the outside, so we don't know what's going on,

1627
01:15:41,960 --> 01:15:45,079
but could use a little more about liked everything that

1628
01:15:45,119 --> 01:15:47,359
we did get, And that was another example of a

1629
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:51,359
musical I did like where he gets the information about

1630
01:15:51,359 --> 01:15:54,479
her rich parents lying and they have a musical number

1631
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:56,359
together where she starts out singing and he's like, oh,

1632
01:15:56,399 --> 01:15:58,439
it's supposed to be about me. And that's where again

1633
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,079
I thought he is still the joker, because like, that's

1634
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:02,920
a selfish thing to state. He didn't say about us.

1635
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:04,479
He said about me, So it's like, oh, well, no,

1636
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,199
he's clearly still the joker, but he's not. But again,

1637
01:16:07,199 --> 01:16:10,479
that was another good scene of showing the dynamic fracture

1638
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:12,520
but through music. So even though like I said, I

1639
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,279
could have I could have taken out when he said

1640
01:16:15,319 --> 01:16:17,159
that at the end to Harley, like, can you just

1641
01:16:17,199 --> 01:16:19,279
talk to me and stop saying that was me A

1642
01:16:19,319 --> 01:16:22,359
couple d a couple of music numbers, I said, Okay,

1643
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,359
we're this is slogging for me. We need to speed

1644
01:16:25,359 --> 01:16:26,000
this up here.

1645
01:16:26,039 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 2: So I don't think I have much more Dad, I

1646
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,479
don't really have any other rooms. Smoking was my last note.

1647
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, teelor anything.

1648
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,079
Speaker 3: Else, I don't think so a lot of smoking.

1649
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:43,520
Speaker 1: Every scene I did like that with Zazzi Beats revealed

1650
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,960
they did not reveal the toss Wayne thing because I

1651
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,159
thought Zazzi Beats when she said, oh, his mother made

1652
01:16:48,199 --> 01:16:50,880
up the story, I thought she was gonna get into

1653
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:51,319
the mall.

1654
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am glad that they kept that secret.

1655
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 1: So I was glad they Yeah, they kept that to

1656
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,520
the vest and let that up for interpretation there. But uh, yeah, no,

1657
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,760
I'm sure we'll talk about this again with patrons because

1658
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,079
I think it's gonna be a divisive movie. I think

1659
01:17:08,119 --> 01:17:09,760
it's like what we said at the beginning, where I

1660
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:12,399
can see someone not liking this. But I guess I'll

1661
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:15,479
just go down because I'm talking. I'm gonna I'm gonna

1662
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:17,520
give it a six. I was gonna give it a seven,

1663
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:20,000
but I think it's just that ending really hurts. It's

1664
01:17:20,079 --> 01:17:22,600
kind of like we just bring us a power. I

1665
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,039
got a seven because it's like, oh, there's a lot

1666
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:28,119
of the visual stuff or the filmmaking stuff. This film

1667
01:17:28,239 --> 01:17:32,920
just looks beautiful many times, the the blocking, the colors,

1668
01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:36,319
the way they frame certain things. It's a like for

1669
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:39,680
comic movie, one of the best looking ones. But it's

1670
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:42,720
I think that's where sometimes there's movies that have errors

1671
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,600
or have faults, but it's like the highs are so high,

1672
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,520
like a dead Pool Wolverine right where like visually that

1673
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,640
compares nothing this movie. But that is like a ten

1674
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:52,680
for me because I had the enjoyment and some the

1675
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,640
highs are so high. But with this it's the reverse

1676
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:58,439
where you know, I got some high highs, some middle middles,

1677
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:01,920
but like the lows are solo in my opinion, and

1678
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:03,920
luckily I don't think it's like worst combat than we

1679
01:18:04,039 --> 01:18:06,600
error people. Like if anyone thinks I've seen the hyper

1680
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,039
Bowl takes of all this worst Mood year, please go

1681
01:18:09,079 --> 01:18:11,760
watch the fucking Woody Woodpecker movie on Netflix and tell

1682
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,920
me so if you think this is the worst movie year.

1683
01:18:14,359 --> 01:18:17,039
I don't trust your fucking opinion about anything when it

1684
01:18:17,039 --> 01:18:19,000
comes to film, because there is so much more out

1685
01:18:19,039 --> 01:18:21,560
there where it's like, yeah, go watch the woodywood Pecker.

1686
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:23,960
No one can tell me, like Madam Web is better

1687
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,119
than this, like fuck off, like usually enjoy it more.

1688
01:18:26,199 --> 01:18:29,199
That's great, but just from a standpoint bause or you

1689
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:31,920
mute this movie, which you want the musical aspect right,

1690
01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:35,159
but just the way it looks just like the first one, fantastic.

1691
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:37,479
But yeah, I think a six. I can't put in

1692
01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:39,520
that seven range because, as I've said many times, that

1693
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,760
gets that range of stuff where oh I have issues,

1694
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,520
but I'll rewatch it. It will be a mint Albret,

1695
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,199
like I said, I will rewatch this soon enough. With Emily,

1696
01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:50,079
I'm hoping we can hold off to home because I

1697
01:18:50,119 --> 01:18:51,680
really don't want to see this in theaters. And I think,

1698
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:53,920
as I tell Emily, I think she'll be like, yeah,

1699
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:55,960
I trust you enough, I can just watch this at home.

1700
01:18:56,359 --> 01:18:58,319
And then after that, I don't. I don't know. I

1701
01:18:58,359 --> 01:19:01,439
just feel myself kind of watching the first one and

1702
01:19:01,479 --> 01:19:05,760
then maybe just stopping there, you know, like and just

1703
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,479
kind of pretending it never happens, like some people do

1704
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:12,159
with the Star Wars prequels or sequels and everything. So yeah,

1705
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:14,319
that's what I think I'm gonna be doing. But yeah,

1706
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:17,640
A six. Unfortunately, this is a disappointment. I think I

1707
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:19,279
said I was hoping at least for like in the

1708
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:21,439
eight range, and I think at times it was that way,

1709
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:23,960
but as the movie went on, it dropped and yeah,

1710
01:19:24,039 --> 01:19:29,239
definitely definitely let down. So hopefully, uh, I guess there's

1711
01:19:29,279 --> 01:19:31,159
no hopefully because this is the end of the road

1712
01:19:31,239 --> 01:19:33,520
for walking thing a joker. He's done DC, a ton

1713
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:36,520
of Phil's done, so I guess hopefully we get some

1714
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:38,479
good Joker content very But at the end of the day,

1715
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:40,960
it doesn't take away what they did achieve with that

1716
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,159
first movie. I just think that it was a lightning

1717
01:19:44,199 --> 01:19:46,840
can't strike twice and they could not achieve that same

1718
01:19:48,279 --> 01:19:51,079
they could not achieve or they they got in the

1719
01:19:51,119 --> 01:19:54,520
way of themselves and we'll never know.

1720
01:19:54,720 --> 01:20:04,399
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I would go. It's tough because

1721
01:20:04,399 --> 01:20:06,319
I feel like the more we talked about certain things,

1722
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,800
it definitely brought down some some of my enjoyment it's

1723
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:11,960
always tough when you have a sequel that brings down

1724
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,039
the quality of the first film. Yeah, I feel like

1725
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:18,760
that's more egregious than just being like poorly written or

1726
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:20,840
something like it. Like it it's like, just lead the

1727
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,960
first one alone, like like, don't bring that one down,

1728
01:20:23,159 --> 01:20:24,840
Like come on, just go down on your own, don't

1729
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,800
don't bring others down with you. I think I'll just

1730
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,479
six point five just just just because I did really

1731
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:36,600
like that that middle section. But yeah, like the back

1732
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:39,560
and the front were not great, but the the innards

1733
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:44,920
were tasty for me. But yeah, it's it's unfortunate. I

1734
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,680
don't think it's the I mean you, you said a

1735
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,159
lot of terrible movies that are definitely worse than this.

1736
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:52,199
Speaker 1: But it's gonna be better than Venom in a couple

1737
01:20:52,199 --> 01:20:54,560
of weeks, I promise you, Like I promise you you

1738
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,079
might enjoy Venom Moore because it's funny and outrageous.

1739
01:20:57,079 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 2: There's some people in our theater that were loving that

1740
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:01,680
the trailer for Venom. You love, then this is why

1741
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,199
he gets a billion dollars.

1742
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,520
Speaker 1: Never hit a billion dollars, by the way, then I'm

1743
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:08,520
joker has but I don't. I don't think Joker two

1744
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:10,359
is gonna because that's one thing I don't think it has.

1745
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:15,119
We'll talk about newscass nowhere near that rewatchability or recommending

1746
01:21:15,159 --> 01:21:17,399
it like you gotta see Joker too, Like I don't

1747
01:21:17,399 --> 01:21:19,520
think so. I think there's some splotches in here where

1748
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,000
it's like this is kind of dull or we're waiting

1749
01:21:22,039 --> 01:21:23,680
around for all. I think there's just one time there's

1750
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:25,960
a shot of Arthur just smoking for like a long time.

1751
01:21:26,039 --> 01:21:28,199
I was like, I think I got it, like he

1752
01:21:28,319 --> 01:21:30,600
likes to smoke, Like let's let's move along, you know.

1753
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:34,079
Speaker 2: But nope, But yeah, that's all I go say.

1754
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:38,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with a uh a seven.

1755
01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:41,560
We got like going up five point five's all the

1756
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:41,920
way up?

1757
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, any more people and then we'll get to

1758
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:45,920
a ten people.

1759
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:47,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think.

1760
01:21:47,159 --> 01:21:49,560
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, this movie has

1761
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,239
a lot of stuff going on in the in the

1762
01:21:52,399 --> 01:21:54,479
first and second act that I can get on board with,

1763
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:56,600
I can really enjoy once we get to that third

1764
01:21:56,640 --> 01:22:00,520
act and then just them retroactively kind of backtrack with

1765
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,319
Arthur Fleck's character as a Joker. Don't like that at all.

1766
01:22:04,399 --> 01:22:07,000
And so that's why I'm docking it pretty heavily because

1767
01:22:07,039 --> 01:22:10,640
of that. It's just really really unfortunate. But I think

1768
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:15,640
though that him embracing this character like walking Phoenix, just

1769
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:19,239
absolutely is phenomenal as a Joker. And I love those

1770
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:23,359
those moments where that's just the musical sessions that are

1771
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:27,520
in their studios and live action or live audience kind

1772
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,199
of set up. I think it's a lot of fun,

1773
01:22:29,239 --> 01:22:30,720
and I think they really do a good job at

1774
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:33,000
showing how Arthur is going deeper and deeper into this

1775
01:22:33,159 --> 01:22:36,880
Joker character. And yeah, that sprinkled with the humorous moments

1776
01:22:36,880 --> 01:22:41,640
that are not humorous but humorously awkward. Really really enjoyed

1777
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:45,760
all that too. So I think that this movie is

1778
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,800
something I will rewatch. But if I, you know, if

1779
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,079
I have to watch a Joker movie, I'm going to

1780
01:22:52,119 --> 01:22:54,399
be going to that first one more so just because

1781
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:59,520
like the I like all that mental health like atmosphere

1782
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,119
that they're kind of like tackling when it comes to Arthur.

1783
01:23:02,359 --> 01:23:03,399
Speaker 1: All that mental health.

1784
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:06,319
Speaker 2: I like all that mental health, Give me all that

1785
01:23:06,359 --> 01:23:06,920
mental health.

1786
01:23:07,239 --> 01:23:10,199
Speaker 3: I just I like how they're throwing that all onto

1787
01:23:10,359 --> 01:23:12,199
Arthur and it just feels like it's got so much

1788
01:23:12,239 --> 01:23:14,439
more tension so much more build up leading towards that

1789
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,399
just fucking crazy ending, a lot more than what we

1790
01:23:18,479 --> 01:23:21,880
got here. This just didn't feel climactic or anything like that,

1791
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:23,960
or it didn't feel like there's any tension building up

1792
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:26,239
towards this sending of this movie.

1793
01:23:26,359 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: Arthur dies, it's like the most anti climatic, Like I

1794
01:23:29,079 --> 01:23:30,840
was found the death, as we said, but just the

1795
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,760
actual death. And that's even something like the way it shot.

1796
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:37,119
I didn't think it was anything amazing, but uh yeah, yeah,

1797
01:23:37,279 --> 01:23:39,399
well from sci Fi Centers is the same thing gave

1798
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:41,920
Joker six had potentially be much more though, and I

1799
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:43,479
think that's what we all feel. I think it's like

1800
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,000
none of us are calling this a bad movie or

1801
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:47,560
one of the worst ever, because like you see the

1802
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:52,640
bones of certain ideas, but uh, like yeah, I thought

1803
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,359
I was all there, but no, it was. You know,

1804
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,680
it's sometimes hard to recapture the magic, and that didn't

1805
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,680
happen this go round. But Alas, I'm not sure if

1806
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:05,720
we'll talk about this, like I still have walking I

1807
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:07,920
think in my Golden Gee's Dominie, but I don't think

1808
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,479
it's like twenty eighteen where it was a bullet of like, oh,

1809
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,119
this guy's winning for sure. It's like right now he's like, yeah,

1810
01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:16,319
I'm definitely gonna bring him up because he's still great.

1811
01:24:16,359 --> 01:24:18,039
Like the performance is still great, but it's not like

1812
01:24:18,039 --> 01:24:20,439
Anna auto win and same thing with Harley Quintin. That

1813
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:22,680
has to at the material. So obviously we were a

1814
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:24,840
bit mixed. I've talked to some people that are mixed

1815
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,000
to let us know in our discord, Patron wherever you

1816
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:29,279
want to talk to us what your thoughts are. We'd

1817
01:24:29,279 --> 01:24:31,039
love to see I hear this and now yeah, we'll

1818
01:24:31,039 --> 01:24:32,840
excited for next to After nine to talk with the

1819
01:24:33,359 --> 01:24:36,279
patrons with this one, because again I still say it's

1820
01:24:36,279 --> 01:24:38,199
a positive. I'd much rather get a movie like this

1821
01:24:38,319 --> 01:24:40,760
where we'll want to talk to about other people, where

1822
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,560
like what do we have to say about the Marvels

1823
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:45,840
after other than our meme of you know, the Creed

1824
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:47,880
came here hopeful. It's like we weren't being like, hey,

1825
01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:50,039
everybody on After nine, what do you all think about

1826
01:24:50,039 --> 01:24:53,239
the Marvels? Like we all kind of had the same reaction.

1827
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,000
So but yes, thank you very much for listening to

1828
01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,520
this episode. When you hear from us next, I promise

1829
01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:00,680
you'll not be boring say that again,