Speaker 1: At a book.
Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the
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Speaker 2: Dogman Encounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is
Speaker 2: Wiley Bureau. Wiley, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Hey, Vick, how you doing today?
Speaker 2: Oh, if you're to Middlin, how about yourself?
Speaker 1: I'm doing quite well, quite well, no complaints so far.
Speaker 1: Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2: Oh, you're welcome and that's a great thing. Wiley, please
Speaker 2: give us some brief bio on yourself.
Speaker 3: Sure, Vic, not a problem. My name is Wiley Bureau
Speaker 3: and I grew up in central New Jersey. I was
Speaker 3: born in Princeton, and I grew up in Hillsboro. Hillsborough
Speaker 3: basically lands dead smack in the center of New Jersey.
Speaker 3: If there was a Central Jersey, Hillsboro would be right
Speaker 3: in the center. It's kind of an interesting town. When
Speaker 3: I was a kid, it was quite rural, mostly farmland,
Speaker 3: some sub suburban communities, but it was pretty much on
Speaker 3: the border of like the highly developed New Jersey that
Speaker 3: goes north into New York City, that like super developed
Speaker 3: part of New Jersey. Basically stops at my town. So, like,
Speaker 3: the northern side of my town is very developed, and
Speaker 3: then when you get towards the northwestern side, it turns
Speaker 3: becomes more rural and you hit the Saroland Mountain Preserve.
Speaker 3: And I grew up on a street that was like
Speaker 3: right at the top of the Sarland Mountain Preserve, really
Speaker 3: beautiful property. My parents had surrounded by farmland and forest.
Speaker 3: So I, you know, growing up in one of the
Speaker 3: most densely populated states per capita, I was lucky enough
Speaker 3: to you know, be surrounded by the outdoors.
Speaker 1: It was like a little paradise in New Jersey.
Speaker 3: So I didn't have like the typical childhood growing up
Speaker 3: in New Jersey. I didn't have neighbors and kids all around.
Speaker 3: It was basically just me and my folks. And ever
Speaker 3: since I was a little baby, my mom, before I
Speaker 3: could even walk, would throw me into her backpack, one
Speaker 3: of those little baby backpacks that you could hike around with,
Speaker 3: and she would take me hiking all through the mountains
Speaker 3: and the trails just as a kid. And you know,
Speaker 3: I really grow up. I grew up just exploring in
Speaker 3: the forest. I had a lot of freedom as a kid.
Speaker 3: My mom would just let me run outside. We did
Speaker 3: have a rule though, if my mom ever whistled or
Speaker 3: called for me, I had to come right away. So
Speaker 3: you know, she had me trained really well, and you know,
Speaker 3: I never ran into issues or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But as a kid, my town in Hillsborough was very rural.
Speaker 3: There was one traffic light in the town at Amwell
Speaker 3: and two O six, and that was the only traffic
Speaker 3: light in the town. Today, most of the farmland and
Speaker 3: a lot of the open space has been developed. Now
Speaker 3: there's a traffic light practically on every single street corner.
Speaker 3: So it's really this town has changed so much within
Speaker 3: thirty six years. I actually turned to thirty six November
Speaker 3: twenty second of last month, and I actually just moved
Speaker 3: back to New Jersey from Oregon.
Speaker 1: In Washington. I'd been living between the both states for
Speaker 1: the past year.
Speaker 3: I was a wildland forest firefighting out there, which was
Speaker 3: quite incredible.
Speaker 1: To back up a little bit, so, I grew up
Speaker 1: in hill Borough. I went to the.
Speaker 3: School systems here in Hillsboro. I graduated high school in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: High school. You know, in New Jersey, everyone was really preppy.
Speaker 3: Everyone had like Abercrompie and Fitch, and I was sort
Speaker 3: of like one of the you know, a little bit
Speaker 3: of an outcast. I you know, I was never really
Speaker 3: bullied in high school. I had plenty of friends, but
Speaker 3: you know, I was really into the outdoors. And my
Speaker 3: senior year of high school, I founded the first outdoor
Speaker 3: survival program in high school and that was a really
Speaker 3: great experience and the club actually still exists today, so
Speaker 3: that was really fun.
Speaker 1: Well after high school, I.
Speaker 3: Didn't know what I really wanted to do with life,
Speaker 3: so and I went to a wilderness survival school.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like any survival school. This was an expensive.
Speaker 3: Prestigious survival school where after completing a year long course,
Speaker 3: they would certify you to be an outdoor survival instructor.
Speaker 3: And the school was located in Duvall, Washington. So at
Speaker 3: eighteen years old, I got shipped across the country and
Speaker 3: dropped off ten miles up the foothills of the Cascade
Speaker 3: Mountains to go to this survival school. And it was
Speaker 3: an amazing experience and I became really comfortable in the outdoors.
Speaker 3: I learned to track animals, I learned about botany and
Speaker 3: ecology and what plants were edible, and which plants are medicinal,
Speaker 3: and I learned how to you know, do hunting in
Speaker 3: a primitive style, and it was just like an incredible experience.
Speaker 3: I learned every tree species, in plants species in the
Speaker 3: Pacific Northwest, and I just really loved that experience. I
Speaker 3: got to do intensive camping all throughout Washington State, Oregon, California,
Speaker 3: and oh Man, that experience just really gave me this
Speaker 3: confidence that I never would have gained otherwise, a confidence that,
Speaker 3: you know, if stuff hits the fan and I have
Speaker 3: to go off grid, I will be in a better
Speaker 3: position than a lot of other people. So with that said,
Speaker 3: you know, after the program, I ended up moving back
Speaker 3: to New Jersey and I worked at Starbucks briefly, I
Speaker 3: became the assistant manager, and then I decided that I
Speaker 3: want to do more traveling, and I looked into this
Speaker 3: program called AmeriCorps, and it was a really cool program
Speaker 3: because you get to try all different types of jobs
Speaker 3: and travel all over the country helping people. So I
Speaker 3: ended up doing that for two years, which was another
Speaker 3: really great, amazing experience. I really got to learn so
Speaker 3: many different trades. I did carpentry, I became certified as
Speaker 3: a wild and forest firefighter. Through that program, I also
Speaker 3: got certified through on FEMA to do disaster relief, so
Speaker 3: I was sent all over the country anytime there was
Speaker 3: a natural disaster.
Speaker 1: I got to go to.
Speaker 3: Alabama because there are tornadoes. I got to go into
Speaker 3: Texas due to some flooding. Then I got to do
Speaker 3: wild and forest firefighting all over the South. I was
Speaker 3: in Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, all really
Speaker 3: over the west coast doing firefighting, which was really fun.
Speaker 3: And I still hadn't gone to college yet. But while
Speaker 3: I was firefighting, I met a bunch of wildlife biologists
Speaker 3: that we're just so passionate about saving wildlife and giving
Speaker 3: back to nature. And some of these people that was
Speaker 3: getting to work with were so inspiring to me, and
Speaker 3: like through my outdoor background, I realized, like one of
Speaker 3: my passions is, you know, just giving back to nature
Speaker 3: and doing what I can to make the forest healthier
Speaker 3: because like the human race, we tend to take and
Speaker 3: take and take from nature. And like I really noticed
Speaker 3: like in this life, if I could give back, you know,
Speaker 3: I feel like I'll live a good life. So that's
Speaker 3: sort of been one of my goals whenever I'm looking
Speaker 3: for work and just in life, you know, I love
Speaker 3: going out into the forest, hiking, mushroom hunting, camping, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So after AmeriCorps, I ended up basically moving back to
Speaker 3: the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1: I was living in Washington State. I gained residency.
Speaker 3: Then I went to the Evergreen State College and I
Speaker 3: studied wildlife biology and basically forest management, and I got
Speaker 3: my degree, and I ended up moving back to New
Speaker 3: Jersey again, and I started doing tree work because it
Speaker 3: was just a job I had landed, and it was
Speaker 3: a really interesting job because it was somewhat on science based.
Speaker 3: When I got hired, I learned to climb trees and
Speaker 3: prune trees properly. And then I also got into the
Speaker 3: plant healthcare aspect, where I was going around in treating
Speaker 3: plants and trees for certain diseases, and I also did
Speaker 3: a bunch of invasive specie removal. So after being an
Speaker 3: arbors for five years in New Jersey, I really got
Speaker 3: out on living in New Jersey and just being like
Speaker 3: this job really just made me feel kind of stuck.
Speaker 3: So I just manifested moving back to Oregon to the
Speaker 3: Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 1: So This was about a year ago.
Speaker 3: I moved back to the Pacific Northwest as an arborist.
Speaker 3: But I knew that when I want when I got
Speaker 3: back to the Pacific Northwest, I want to do fire
Speaker 3: fighting because that's a really way you could It's a
Speaker 3: really good way to help you know the forest and
Speaker 3: help people, and it was just like something I've always
Speaker 3: wanted to get back into.
Speaker 1: So a year ago I moved back. I moved into Portland.
Speaker 3: I did treework for a couple months, and then I
Speaker 3: found a job as a wild and forest firefighter and
Speaker 3: that's what I continued to do the rest of the
Speaker 3: year in Washington, in Washington and Oregon basically, but I
Speaker 3: was based out of Salem, Morgan, So all summer I
Speaker 3: was out in the mountains fighting fires, running chainsaws, and
Speaker 3: just doing everything I can to like basically save the
Speaker 3: forest out there. And it was an incredible experience. So
Speaker 3: right now it's the off season, I'm not doing any firefighting.
Speaker 3: I'm still on call for any disaster relief that happened
Speaker 3: in the country, and in fact, right now I just
Speaker 3: want to put my best wishes out there to everyone
Speaker 3: in the Pacific Northwest, and I just hope everyone's safe.
Speaker 3: And because there's major flooding going on right now, it's
Speaker 3: super unprecedented. So my heart goes out to everyone out
Speaker 3: in Pacific Northwest right now. I was actually in Washington
Speaker 3: State one week ago, so I missed that storm by
Speaker 3: a week. I actually just moved back to New Jersey
Speaker 3: a few days ago. So that's basically a little brief
Speaker 3: bio on myself.
Speaker 2: Pick Holy cow, wile Y, you sure have lived an
Speaker 2: exciting life.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I try to
Speaker 3: not stay stagnant. I really love adventures and I love
Speaker 3: the outdoors and uh yeah, I just I like to
Speaker 3: I'd like to do different things and try different jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thanks Vick.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you're welcome. Yeah, they can make a movie
Speaker 2: about you, about that life you've lived.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they could.
Speaker 2: And speaking of work, from what I understand, you're looking
Speaker 2: for employment right now. Would you like to put a
Speaker 2: plug out for that? Oh?
Speaker 1: Sure, Vic, that would be an incredible Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I am a certified wild forest firefighter and I'm
Speaker 3: unemployed right now, but I'm looking for different work, something
Speaker 3: a little less physically vigorous and a little safer. But
Speaker 3: I'm in the field of forest management and wildlife biology.
Speaker 1: And yeah, if anyone.
Speaker 3: Knows any positions available, I'm flexible, I'm willing to move.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I have an amazing sense of the outdoors
Speaker 3: as far as reading the landscape, tracking animals. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm a very hard worker doing treework and firefighting. There's
Speaker 3: I'm happy to work long, long hours and there's no
Speaker 3: job that I'm not afraid to do. So if anyone
Speaker 3: out there has any jobs in mind, please keep me
Speaker 3: in mind. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2: Vic, Oh, you're welcome, glad to do it. And if
Speaker 2: anyone listening does have an employment opportunity for Wily that
Speaker 2: you'd like to contact them about, then if you go
Speaker 2: to the description for tonight's show, you'll find a link
Speaker 2: to his Facebook profile that'll make it really easy for
Speaker 2: you to reach them. If you've had a dog mean
Speaker 2: encounter that you'd like to speak with me about, whether
Speaker 2: in private or on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters
Speaker 2: dot com and submit a report. Let's get into your
Speaker 2: encounters now. Please give us every last detail that comes
Speaker 2: to mind.
Speaker 3: Okay, Vic, So I'm gonna rewind a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: before the encounter, just to give some background up to
Speaker 3: this that leads us up to the situation. So basically,
Speaker 3: about two weeks maybe three weeks before this encounter, this
Speaker 3: situation happened, I was on a camping trip in Florida.
Speaker 3: I did a seventeen day long camping trip. I was
Speaker 3: working as an artist at the time. I'd been working
Speaker 3: for about three years, and I had a bunch of
Speaker 3: vacation times saved up. So we were coming close to January,
Speaker 3: and my vacation hours weren't going to roll over. So
Speaker 3: if I didn't use the vacation time, I wouldn't I'd
Speaker 3: lose it.
Speaker 1: So I took full advantage.
Speaker 3: Of that and I went on a seventeen day camping
Speaker 3: trip in Florida. So I had a partner at the time,
Speaker 3: and this girl was like the love of my life.
Speaker 3: I wanted to marry her and I wanted to have
Speaker 3: a family with her, and that's that was our plan.
Speaker 3: So she was about seven months pregnant at this time,
Speaker 3: and I was under an assumption that it was my boy.
Speaker 3: I was supposed to be a boy and I was
Speaker 3: expecting a son. So, you know, going on this camping trip,
Speaker 3: she completely encouraged. You know, she she was living at
Speaker 3: her parents lived right across the street, so she was
Speaker 3: totally fine, and she worked from home, and so it
Speaker 3: wasn't really a big problem for me to go on
Speaker 3: this vacation, and she was totally encouraging of it. But like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, fourteen days into the vacation, she called
Speaker 3: me and told me that she was done, and she
Speaker 3: moved me out of the house, which caught me off
Speaker 3: guard because of the day before, she left me a message,
Speaker 3: you know, telling me that the baby was kicking. And
Speaker 3: I don't know, anyway, to make a long story short,
Speaker 3: I was living with her, and I hadn't lived at
Speaker 3: my folks house in probably ten years, so I was
Speaker 3: thirty two at this time, and she broke up with me,
Speaker 3: moved all my stuff out of our apartment while I
Speaker 3: was on vacation into my parents' house. Didn't give me
Speaker 3: any reason why. Obviously, I was trying to do everything
Speaker 3: I could to fix this because I was, you know,
Speaker 3: thinking we were going to have a kid, and so like,
Speaker 3: I ended up moving back in with my parents, and
Speaker 3: it was like I was so depressed and I felt
Speaker 3: so defeated, and I was heartbroken, and I didn't understand
Speaker 3: what was going on because I had done everything.
Speaker 1: In this relationship. I had already set.
Speaker 3: Up a whole nursery for the child, I had time
Speaker 3: taken off from work, I had family members sending me
Speaker 3: baby gifts, and my main employer had given me all
Speaker 3: this stuff from their baby who was just born or
Speaker 3: who was born a few a couple of years earlier,
Speaker 3: and so like, when this happened, it was a huge embarrassment.
Speaker 3: But after I moved back in with my parents, the
Speaker 3: girl was still having me come over and cook dinner
Speaker 3: and do all this stuff for her, and she really
Speaker 3: was just taking complete advantage of me. So one day
Speaker 3: I was at my parents' house feeling really depressed, hoping
Speaker 3: that there was a chance that we would get back together,
Speaker 3: and she called me one night and said that, yeah,
Speaker 3: I decided I don't want the baby to have the
Speaker 3: name you chose, and your name's not gonna be on
Speaker 3: the birth certificate. And I had I was like, what,
Speaker 3: that's extremely hurtful, and then she i'm fessed up and
Speaker 3: said I'm so sorry it's not yours. And a bunch
Speaker 3: of red flags came came up in that during that time,
Speaker 3: because like when I thought about it like it kind
Speaker 3: of made sense because yeah, I don't need to go
Speaker 3: into more details, but it ended up not being mine,
Speaker 3: and I was very upset. My family was upset and disappointed.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So many years later now, like I realized that the
Speaker 3: whole situation was a blessing in disguise. I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: been happy in that relationship, and it would have you know,
Speaker 3: it never would have worked, and it wasn't my kid anyway.
Speaker 1: So I'm at my parents' house and I'm really mourning.
Speaker 3: This whole situation. It was really hard my parents to
Speaker 3: accept at the time. You know, a few weeks after
Speaker 3: the fact, they totally were on my side and we're
Speaker 3: happy that the situation happened the way it did because
Speaker 3: they really never liked the girl at all. So my
Speaker 3: parents' property, like I said earlier in the interview, is
Speaker 3: kind of in a rural area of New Jersey. We're
Speaker 3: surrounded by farmland and forest and this this is my home.
Speaker 3: I grew up hiking out here. I know, like every
Speaker 3: square into the forest.
Speaker 1: Behind my house.
Speaker 3: I've hiked all in the farmland and all the forests
Speaker 3: around the farmland, and I really feel comfortable out here,
Speaker 3: Like it's my second home. And you know, after living
Speaker 3: in Washington State for a long time, the forests out
Speaker 3: there are so dense and expansive, and you know, they
Speaker 3: can really give you a foreboding feeling when you're out there.
Speaker 3: So like, you know, coming out here, I just feel
Speaker 3: like I'm kind of like top predator king of the forest.
Speaker 3: And I was having one of those mourning moments, like
Speaker 3: a morning situation, Like I was upset and I wasn't
Speaker 3: thinking irrationally at all. And typically when I go into
Speaker 3: the forest, I keep a clear head. Being out in
Speaker 3: the forest for me is like gives me a sense
Speaker 3: of peace and it's i that's one of the reasons
Speaker 3: why I love hiking. But and typically when I'm in
Speaker 3: the forest, I have like a really calm, collected mindsetting.
Speaker 1: But in this situation, I was crushed. I was heartbroken,
Speaker 1: and I really went outside. You're like in a blurgerent state.
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking rationally. I went out without a flashlight.
Speaker 3: So my parents on one side of the road is
Speaker 3: I live on East Mountain Road, and on one side
Speaker 3: of the road is the Sourland Mountains And basically you
Speaker 3: cross the road from my parents' house, and it goes
Speaker 3: straight up a hill into the mountains and it's all
Speaker 3: forested and there's mountain esque features. It's a tiny it's
Speaker 3: not even a real mountain, it's more of a but
Speaker 3: there's a lot of mountain esque features, like giant boulders,
Speaker 3: and there's like spring fed creeks, and one of the
Speaker 3: creeks is called the Roaring Rocks because like when you
Speaker 3: find the mouth of the creek kind of near where this,
Speaker 3: you cross over the street from my parents' house, and
Speaker 3: you could see the creek and you follow the creek
Speaker 3: and the rocks, and the creek get bigger and bigger
Speaker 3: and bigger the further up the hill you get, until
Speaker 3: you can't see the creek anymore, right, but you could
Speaker 3: hear the creek under the rocks, so they call it
Speaker 3: the Rumbling Rocks. So a lot of these like really
Speaker 3: special like mountain esque features are off trail and a
Speaker 3: lot of the people there's hiking trails all around there.
Speaker 3: There's a park and a lot of the people that
Speaker 3: go to the hike up, but the cirlands don't know
Speaker 3: of these like secret spots with giant boulders. And there's
Speaker 3: this one spot called Devil's half Acre and there's no
Speaker 3: trails that lead to it. I feel like I'm probably
Speaker 3: one of the few people that actually know where.
Speaker 1: Devil's half Acre is. So it's not that far from
Speaker 1: my parents' house.
Speaker 3: Like you cross the street and like five six seven
Speaker 3: minutes walking up into the forest. You maybe ten minutes
Speaker 3: and you're at Devil's half Acre, which is this boulder
Speaker 3: field in the middle of the forest where trees can't
Speaker 3: really grow in the middle because the boulders block the
Speaker 3: trees from growing. And there's all these little crevices and
Speaker 3: caves that you could crawl into, and there's definitely animals
Speaker 3: living there.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting place.
Speaker 3: Every time I go there during the day, I see vultures,
Speaker 3: so there's like a vulturnist that lives there. Every time
Speaker 3: I've gone there, I've seen a vulture. It's really strange.
Speaker 3: And one of the last times I went there, I
Speaker 3: saw baby vultures, which was really kind of cool to see.
Speaker 1: Is they were.
Speaker 3: Super cute baby vultures. Yeah, I've never seen baby vultures before.
Speaker 3: But there's all types of animals that dene up in
Speaker 3: these like rock crevices, and you could some of these
Speaker 3: boulders are twenty feet up in the air, like when
Speaker 3: you're climbing on them, your rock scrambling. It is really
Speaker 3: fun and it's a really cool spot. A lot of
Speaker 3: people that grew up in New Jersey, in Hillsbury, New Jersey,
Speaker 3: have no idea that this even exists in the town.
Speaker 3: So it's one of my little, happy, quiet, secret spots
Speaker 3: that I don't really tell many people about. So anyway,
Speaker 3: to get back to the story, I'm really upset and
Speaker 3: I just it's nighttime and I decided to go into
Speaker 3: the two Devil's half Acre the Roaring Rocks across the street.
Speaker 3: In the wilderness school I went to when I was eighteen,
Speaker 3: we would do a lot of night hiking and we
Speaker 3: wouldn't use flashlights because if you use flashlights, it ruins
Speaker 3: your night vision. So I often will go on night
Speaker 3: hikes without flashlights to try to train my night vision
Speaker 3: to be as the best it can be. So this
Speaker 3: time I didn't grab a flashlight. I didn't have any weapons,
Speaker 3: no self defense. It was just closed on my back
Speaker 3: and me. So I'm going out into the forest at
Speaker 3: night and I crossed the street and I'm making my
Speaker 3: way over Devil's half acre and I'm heartbroken.
Speaker 1: I'm so upset, and I.
Speaker 3: Basically have a why me moment, and I just laid
Speaker 3: on one of the rocks, yelling up at the universe.
Speaker 1: Whymy.
Speaker 3: And it was just like kind of one of those
Speaker 3: moments I'm sure all of us has had in our lives.
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking, like I also like I
Speaker 3: don't know, I just got this feeling like, oh am
Speaker 3: I disrupting the forest, like and then I got this
Speaker 3: egotistical feeling like, no, I'm not disrupting the forest.
Speaker 1: In fact, this is my forest. I grew up here,
Speaker 1: and uh, I was just being loud, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden.
Speaker 3: I heard a growl, a low, low growl, and.
Speaker 1: It sounded like it was cane.
Speaker 3: I And but when it happened, my heart dropped into
Speaker 3: my stomach became a little tiny pig, and instantly I
Speaker 3: knew that it was something.
Speaker 1: Unusual.
Speaker 3: I also, I knew immediately just my intuition, like something
Speaker 3: in the back of my head as if I was
Speaker 3: looking at the creature, which I was, and I couldn't
Speaker 3: see anything, which was even scarier because like, I'm hanging
Speaker 3: out in these in this forest by myself no flashlight,
Speaker 3: and I'm being loud and obnoxious, and something started growling
Speaker 3: at me, and it was a low, foreboding growl. And
Speaker 3: when you're in the forest alone with no flashlight and
Speaker 3: something growls at you, it's extremely unsettling. So I instantly
Speaker 3: regretted having that egotistical vibe like I'm king of the forest.
Speaker 3: And I instantly was humbled and I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I was wrong, and yeah, so I immediately I immediately
Speaker 3: felt terror in that moment, like I need to leave
Speaker 3: right now, and.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I did.
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, it's time to get out
Speaker 3: of here, and let me remind you I don't have
Speaker 3: a flashlight. And I was studying in college wildlife biology
Speaker 3: and I've i have seen black bears in person. I've
Speaker 3: seen mountain lions in the wild, and I've seen coyotes
Speaker 3: and wolves, and I've actually seen a black bear at
Speaker 3: night without a flashlight. When I was living in Duval,
Speaker 3: Washington in the wildern School, I used to have to
Speaker 3: walk back and forth from people's houses that I knew
Speaker 3: that were in the Wilderner School program, and often late
Speaker 3: at night, I would end up walking back to my
Speaker 3: yurt with no flashlight.
Speaker 1: One time, I was coming up to the driveway.
Speaker 3: That I lived down and I heard a black bear
Speaker 3: and I had to walk past it to get to
Speaker 3: where I was going, and I had no flashlight.
Speaker 1: And I had nothing to do. I just had to
Speaker 1: walk past it.
Speaker 3: And that was one of the scariest moments that at
Speaker 3: that time of my life. But I was immediately able
Speaker 3: to recognize what the animal was. I could hear it
Speaker 3: was a bear. I knew that even without a flashlight.
Speaker 3: I knew it was going through the dumpsters. There were
Speaker 3: garbage cans at the top of the driveway, and the
Speaker 3: bear was just its scavenging through the trash can. So
Speaker 3: it freaked me out, and it scared me a lot,
Speaker 3: but I just walked past it confidently and went down
Speaker 3: the driveway to my ur. And it's funny because the
Speaker 3: next morning, when it was light out, we were driving
Speaker 3: up the hill to the end of the driveway, the
Speaker 3: little black bear was scavenging out of the trash cans again,
Speaker 3: and the bear was actually small. It was a young
Speaker 3: black bear, and when we drove past, it ran into
Speaker 3: the forest. But with that said, I didn't have a flashlight,
Speaker 3: and I knew exactly what that animal was, so let
Speaker 3: me get back to the story. So I'm in the
Speaker 3: forest and I hear this growl, and I don't have
Speaker 3: a flashlight, but I could tell you right away it
Speaker 3: was canine. I could just hear it. It sounded like
Speaker 3: a large canine, but it was such a deep, deep growl,
Speaker 3: and it didn't sound like any It didn't sound like
Speaker 3: a domesticated dog at all, and like it didn't sound
Speaker 3: like a coyote, and it didn't sound like a wolf,
Speaker 3: but it sounded like some sort of canine. But I
Speaker 3: wasn't even really trying to analyze exactly what it was
Speaker 3: at this point, I just realized I had to get
Speaker 3: out of there. So I'm trying to quickly move through
Speaker 3: this forest, not trip over boulders. There's multi floor rowse
Speaker 3: sticker bushes and I'm walking through them getting kind of
Speaker 3: torn up.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 3: Finally make it to my street, the street to cross
Speaker 3: over into the fields, and I felt a little bit better.
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I made it to the street,
Speaker 3: no big deal. So I crossed the street and I
Speaker 3: get into the field. So near where my parents live,
Speaker 3: there's a few fields there's one neighbor next to my
Speaker 3: parents' house. So if you're facing the street from the
Speaker 3: front of my parents' house to the right is my
Speaker 3: neighbor's house and a field at the back of their house.
Speaker 3: In between my parents' house and my neighbor's house is
Speaker 3: a green strip between the fields. So on the other
Speaker 3: side of my neighbor's house is another field. So basically
Speaker 3: where I was coming out of the forest, I was
Speaker 3: crossing the street and going to the into the field
Speaker 3: on the other side of my neighbor's house. And I
Speaker 3: get into the field and I'm thinking, okay, I'm probably okay.
Speaker 3: But I make it through the field and I get
Speaker 3: into the green belt and I'm not into the next
Speaker 3: field by my neighbor's house yet. I'm sort of halfway
Speaker 3: into this green belt cross about to cross into the field,
Speaker 3: and that's when I could hear the whatever was in
Speaker 3: the forest coming through the forest following me. And that's
Speaker 3: that's when I realized this was something unnuws, because like,
Speaker 3: I've ran into predators and they just they don't stalk
Speaker 3: you through the forest like this. First of all, I
Speaker 3: was keeping a safe distance from me, but it was
Speaker 3: following me from behind. So anyway, I'm I'm crossing the
Speaker 3: green belt and I hear this thing coming and that
Speaker 3: freaked me out more than the gral, honestly. So I
Speaker 3: start kind of making my way through the green belt
Speaker 3: and I'm running through the field at this point really
Speaker 3: really fast, because basically, once you get through this field,
Speaker 3: one more green belt and then I'm in my parents yard.
Speaker 3: And my parents have a barn, and my dad built
Speaker 3: a photography studio on the barn, and at the time,
Speaker 3: I was living in their edition where the photography studio was,
Speaker 3: which faces the back of my property and it faces
Speaker 3: all the farmland. So you know, I am feeling a
Speaker 3: sense of fear that I haven't felt in my honestly. Ever,
Speaker 3: this this feeling I felt was scarier than when I
Speaker 3: saw the black bear at night. So basically, I'm I'm
Speaker 3: really freaked out at this point.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's behind me.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's some sort of canine, but it
Speaker 3: didn't seem like a normal canine. I don't know, but
Speaker 3: I wasn't really thinking. I was just trying to get
Speaker 3: back to safety at this point. So I'm crossing through
Speaker 3: the green belt, I'm running through the field. I'm going
Speaker 3: through the one more green belt to get into my
Speaker 3: parents yard. And I get into my parents' yard and
Speaker 3: I get into the room where I'm staying, and I
Speaker 3: keep the door.
Speaker 1: Open, and this is like, this was my safety. I
Speaker 1: felt safe. I was like, Okay, I'm cool. I'm in
Speaker 1: my room that's facing the back of the property.
Speaker 3: And I basically just wait there and I could hear
Speaker 3: the animal coming through the going through my neighbor's field.
Speaker 3: I could hear it panting basically the whole time it
Speaker 3: was behind me. What really freaked me out too, It
Speaker 3: wasn't trying to be stealthy, and you could hear panting
Speaker 3: and breathing as it's coming through the fields behind me.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of why I kept the door open.
Speaker 3: I wanted to see what this was. I mean, studying
Speaker 3: wildlife biology and stuff like that, I am intrigued to
Speaker 3: see what these kinds of any animal, any wildlife. But yeah,
Speaker 3: so I'm freaked out, but I feel a little bit safer,
Speaker 3: and I'm keeping my door open. I'm dead silent and
Speaker 3: I'm listening, and I could hear whatever it is coming
Speaker 3: through the green belt and crossing into my parents yard.
Speaker 1: And that's when I could see it, and it was huge.
Speaker 1: It was literally it looked like it could have been
Speaker 1: a black bear, but it had the body, the slender,
Speaker 1: longer body of a canine, and I knew instantly it
Speaker 1: was a canine. And it's crossing right in front of me.
Speaker 3: And the interesting thing was, until this point, it never
Speaker 3: came closer than one hundred feet to me as it
Speaker 3: was docking, which was really strange. It kept a safe distance,
Speaker 3: but it let me know it was following me, which
Speaker 3: was not normal animal behavior.
Speaker 1: And I picked that up right away.
Speaker 3: And so basically it's crossing through my yard and I
Speaker 3: could see just the shadow of it, and it's you
Speaker 3: could hear. It's at this point, it's fifty feet in
Speaker 3: front of me, like if there's an oak that's probably
Speaker 3: like sixty feet away, and it's crossing in front of
Speaker 3: the oak, right right in front of me. And I
Speaker 3: didn't have time to get a flashlight or anything. But
Speaker 3: this thing's panting and breathing loudly as it's walking through
Speaker 3: my yard, and I could I could see it, but
Speaker 3: I can't see any like details, but I see this
Speaker 3: thing go right through my yard. My door is open
Speaker 3: and I'm dead, silent, dead still, and it walks right
Speaker 3: past me into the field next to my house. At
Speaker 3: this point, it's about seventy five feet away from me,
Speaker 3: and it's just chilling, facing me.
Speaker 1: Not moving.
Speaker 3: In the field, I could see a shadow of it,
Speaker 3: and you could tell it was a canine. It was
Speaker 3: literally sitting up on its behind. I couldn't see it perfectly,
Speaker 3: but you could. There's like a tiny, tiny little green
Speaker 3: belt with a little some shrubbery and then the field
Speaker 3: and you could see into this field a lot better
Speaker 3: than you could see into my neighbor's field. And I
Speaker 3: could see it perched up there, not far away, just sitting,
Speaker 3: not moving, just and it starts making these crazy noises.
Speaker 3: It's like it's like growling. It's kind of growling there
Speaker 3: and like panting and like doing this little bark was
Speaker 3: like And I whistled to it because I'm, you know,
Speaker 3: in my door and safety, and I whistled to this
Speaker 3: creature and it stopped and.
Speaker 1: It completely reacted to my whistle.
Speaker 3: So when I whistled at it, it started growling way
Speaker 3: more intense and it was the weirdest sound I've ever
Speaker 3: heard out of a canine. It was clearly a dot,
Speaker 3: not a domesticated dog, way bigger than anything I've ever
Speaker 3: seen in New Jersey wildlife wise, and the thing I'm
Speaker 3: looking at it.
Speaker 1: In the field, all I could see is.
Speaker 3: This black, dark figure perched up, sitting on it's behind,
Speaker 3: looking at me, and I whistled to it. And when
Speaker 3: I whistled to it, it stops and then goes, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I can't do it, but it did
Speaker 3: this like growl that led into a bark that led
Speaker 3: into a howl, and it was the scariest howl I've
Speaker 3: ever heard in my life. And literally, at that moment
Speaker 3: in time, I knew it wasn't a wolf, and I
Speaker 3: knew it wasn't a coyote, and.
Speaker 1: Just this shrill of fear.
Speaker 3: I can't describe how terrifying it is when you have
Speaker 3: a moment like this with a creature that's that aware
Speaker 3: of you, Like this thing was watching me, was one
Speaker 3: hundred percent aware of me, and completely escorted me out
Speaker 3: of the forest as far as I'm concerned. And it's
Speaker 3: hard to describe the feelings that you're feeling in this
Speaker 3: during these kinds of moments, like I could years later,
Speaker 3: I could nonchalantly talk about it. But this shook me
Speaker 3: up so bad that for the next few weeks, I
Speaker 3: every time I got inside, I would lock the door
Speaker 3: because I would have I'll get into the terrors that
Speaker 3: I at night, terrors that I had after this. But
Speaker 3: it's just the feeling that you get when you hear
Speaker 3: something like that that close.
Speaker 1: It's undescribable.
Speaker 3: Like I've spent I've I've had close calls firefighting, I've
Speaker 3: had close calls with mountain lions. Nothing was nothing was
Speaker 3: as scary as this. It's like you have as a
Speaker 3: sixth sense built into you. It's like a primitive fear
Speaker 3: that you get when you experience a creature like this.
Speaker 1: Like I could feel this energy and I could tell that.
Speaker 3: It was something more intelligent than a wild animal.
Speaker 1: At this point, And basically that's the encounter.
Speaker 3: After after it growled and howled at me, I it
Speaker 3: walked off into the fields. There were a couple other
Speaker 3: nights that I heard the exact same call, but I
Speaker 3: had I haven't heard it ever since, And eventually I
Speaker 3: moved back to the Pacific Northwest. Right now, I'm actually
Speaker 3: in the same room that I was in when I
Speaker 3: experienced this but this situation really gave me some PTSD
Speaker 3: for a couple of weeks afterwards. So I knew at
Speaker 3: that point it wasn't a coyote, Like my intuition is
Speaker 3: pretty good, and I knew that was not a wolf.
Speaker 1: There are no wolves in New Jersey. I knew it
Speaker 1: wasn't a black bear.
Speaker 3: And you know, in my past, I have heard of
Speaker 3: the dog man before because I I'm really into the
Speaker 3: bigfoot subject I but I hadn't really ever really heard
Speaker 3: of it, like I've heard of the dog Man, but
Speaker 3: I didn't really think much of it, never thought there
Speaker 3: could be one in New Jersey, and I never looked
Speaker 3: into this subject at all. So that night when I
Speaker 3: went to bed, I had nightmares that there was a
Speaker 3: bipedal bipedal wolf like canine. And in my dream, the
Speaker 3: the face is so descriptive I could like I could
Speaker 3: describe it, but.
Speaker 1: So basically like imagine a wolf like. So the face
Speaker 1: that I was seeing that was bipedal in my dream
Speaker 1: was basically like a were wolf face with a skre
Speaker 1: down right on the left side of his eye, and
Speaker 1: it had hands.
Speaker 3: And it was weird because that night I had a
Speaker 3: dream that there was bipedal canine watching me through my window.
Speaker 3: So in this photography studio, none of the windows have
Speaker 3: shades or blinds, and you could basically just look in
Speaker 3: and see me sleeping. And that really made me uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: And I woke up that night sweating thinking there was
Speaker 3: a bipedal canine looking at me through the window.
Speaker 1: And I got up and I looked, and there was
Speaker 1: nothing there.
Speaker 3: And every single night for about two weeks afterwards, I
Speaker 3: would have these insanely vivid dreams of something looking at
Speaker 3: me through the window, something huge, ten feet tall.
Speaker 1: Looking at me through the window with fingers.
Speaker 3: And it got it got bad enough to the point
Speaker 3: where I was scared to go outside. So this unit
Speaker 3: that I'm living in isn't attached my parents' house, and
Speaker 3: I would have to go outside at night to go
Speaker 3: to the bathroom and stuff. And it's got to the
Speaker 3: point where every single time I would be outside at night,
Speaker 3: I was terrified.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, all right, let me run in
Speaker 1: and run back or let me run inside and run
Speaker 1: back out as fast as I can. Every time I
Speaker 1: came in the studio, I would lock the door, and
Speaker 1: I just have these the night terrors weren't just the
Speaker 1: creature looking in through my windows at me, it was
Speaker 1: also it coming in, and I would have these dreams
Speaker 1: of the dog man opening my door with its fingers
Speaker 1: and coming in, and for some reason, I just would
Speaker 1: have these horrible nightmares.
Speaker 3: So that was a very interesting I've never experienced nightmare
Speaker 3: terrors before. I've never really had bad dreams, and they
Speaker 3: were just so vivid that it ended up making me
Speaker 3: look into the dog man's subjects. So I didn't really
Speaker 3: know exactly what I had seen, but in my head,
Speaker 3: like they're was nothing it could have been other than
Speaker 3: a dog man. And I didn't even really believe in
Speaker 3: the dog man topic that much, but I'm open minded
Speaker 3: to the fact that there are other things that exist,
Speaker 3: and I'm not closed minded to anything.
Speaker 1: And like, after that experience, I know it was a
Speaker 1: large canine.
Speaker 3: So I started looking into the dog man subject and
Speaker 3: that's where I found your podcast and I started listening
Speaker 3: to it. In some of your earlier episodes, I'm living
Speaker 3: in Somerset County and right next to me is Mercer
Speaker 3: County and Hunterdon County, and I'm listening to your show
Speaker 3: and I was like, wow, that sounds a lot like
Speaker 3: what I experienced some of the encounters I was hearing,
Speaker 3: and then I heard more encounters from Somerset County, from
Speaker 3: the next street over from the street that I live on.
Speaker 3: You had a guest on that I had a really
Speaker 3: intense encounter, multiple encounters. Then a couple of weeks, maybe
Speaker 3: a couple months later, I heard another encounter on your
Speaker 3: show in the same town, basically on the other side
Speaker 3: of town, and that person had seen a dog man.
Speaker 1: And there was one more individual that was.
Speaker 3: Doing research and they said, Somerset County is a hot
Speaker 3: spot and that is dead smack in the middle of
Speaker 3: where I am living. And I actually had no idea
Speaker 3: that this was a hot spot, but according to some
Speaker 3: sightings and experiences people have, this is a hot spot.
Speaker 1: And it makes sense.
Speaker 3: You know, if you understand coyote or canine behavior, this
Speaker 3: has everything that they would need to survive. We have
Speaker 3: an over abundance of beer. You know, a predator could
Speaker 3: live off of a roadkill on my street basically like
Speaker 3: they wouldn't even really need to hunt. There's such an
Speaker 3: imbalance with nature out here. We have apparently have no
Speaker 3: mountain lions and no natural predators.
Speaker 1: But that is definite not true.
Speaker 3: So one of the areas that an individual on your
Speaker 3: on your podcast was describing, I'm I know this area
Speaker 3: pretty well, and I'm pretty sure I was able to
Speaker 3: locate the area that he described. He didn't say the name,
Speaker 3: but he just described where it was around me, and
Speaker 3: I am euston mountain bike there because the area I'm
Speaker 3: not going to say the name because he didn't want
Speaker 3: to disclose the area that it was in, but he
Speaker 3: you know, he said it was in New Jersey and
Speaker 3: it was in close to this area. So I have
Speaker 3: a feeling I knew where he was talking about. And
Speaker 3: I was mountain biking in this area where one of
Speaker 3: the individuals said he had a dog man encounter. And
Speaker 3: in this park, it's all flat farmland, but they're deer everywhere.
Speaker 3: And in this park like there are bones everywhere scattered,
Speaker 3: Like I remember just looking and finding full grown deer skeletons,
Speaker 3: deer bones ripped apart, and literally throughout this whole entire
Speaker 3: like six Mile Park, there are just skeletons and deer
Speaker 3: bones everywhere. And it's like for someone who's a tracker
Speaker 3: and studies wildlife biology, it shows there's presence of a predator,
Speaker 3: like there are apex predators that are living there. You know,
Speaker 3: coyotes can take down deer, but they typically will hunt
Speaker 3: young deer. But these were full on, full grown deer
Speaker 3: bones that I'm finding scattered around this whole park. I
Speaker 3: even found cowbones and there aren't really any cattle in
Speaker 3: that area, So like that's just kind of really strange
Speaker 3: and throws up some red flags for me. It's funny
Speaker 3: because you know, New Jersey's the most densely populated staper
Speaker 3: kapita and you just don't think that there would be
Speaker 3: anything lurking around out here, so it's really easy to
Speaker 3: let your guard down. But you know that is not
Speaker 3: the case. And I've learned from listening to your show
Speaker 3: dog Man there they're everywhere, like they can. They can
Speaker 3: live in any habitat that you would see a fox.
Speaker 3: So you know, knowing that now, I'm always keeping my
Speaker 3: guard up when I'm outside, you know, I'm I'm more
Speaker 3: aware if I'm night hiking, and yeah, these things are
Speaker 3: around and they're closer than you would think. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's my experience with the dog Man here in New Jersey,
Speaker 3: and that's pretty much it for that experience, so it
Speaker 3: was really terrifying. But yeah, now that I'm back in
Speaker 3: New Jersey living at my parents' house, I am interested.
Speaker 3: I'm and it's interesting too. Like I'm interested, I want
Speaker 3: to have another encounter. I really do want to get better,
Speaker 3: a better sighting on this creature. Though it was such
Speaker 3: a terrifying encounter. Since I've been back, I haven't had
Speaker 3: any of those feelings an urgency to lock the door.
Speaker 3: I haven't had any feelings that anything watching me through
Speaker 3: the window, and I haven't.
Speaker 1: Heard any noises other than coyotes. I've heard some coyotes.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so but I'm back here in this area
Speaker 3: that is apparently hot spot, and I'm definitely going to
Speaker 3: be keeping my eyes out for tracks and any kind
Speaker 3: of evidence I can find. But with that said, I
Speaker 3: don't I'm not trying to prove the existence of any
Speaker 3: of these elusive creatures. I respect them, I respect their space,
Speaker 3: and if they want to live a life of secrecy,
Speaker 3: I want them to be able to do that. So
Speaker 3: it's not my mission to prove that any of these
Speaker 3: creatures are real or exist. But I know that they're
Speaker 3: out there, and yeah, that's basically it for my dog
Speaker 3: man encounter.
Speaker 2: Wow, Riley, that was a rough one. I'm glad that
Speaker 2: you're over it now to the point where you're interested
Speaker 2: in actually having another encounter that tells me everything I
Speaker 2: need to. No, that's definitely a sign of coming to
Speaker 2: terms with that encounter you had. But I just hate
Speaker 2: the fact you had to go through that first experience.
Speaker 2: How traumatic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not mad at the fact that I
Speaker 3: had to go through the experience. At the time, it
Speaker 3: was terrifying, but you know it and it was just
Speaker 3: a lot to process in that moment.
Speaker 1: You know, like when you're out in the forest by yourself,
Speaker 1: with no form of protection, no flashlight, and you hear
Speaker 1: something gral at you, it leaves you a feeling that
Speaker 1: it's hard to describe, but I could tell you it's
Speaker 1: a feeling of terror. It's not a fun feeling.
Speaker 3: And if you when you're in the wild, you know
Speaker 3: animals will go out of their way.
Speaker 1: To avoid humans.
Speaker 3: So if you have if you're camping and you're making
Speaker 3: a lot of noise and something coming into your camp,
Speaker 3: that's unusual animal behavior. If you're getting stoked from an
Speaker 3: animal from quite a far distance, that's on usual animal behavior.
Speaker 3: I mean, mountain lions will stock you, but they are
Speaker 3: so stealth that typically you won't even see them until
Speaker 3: they're already till it's too late. So if an animal
Speaker 3: is stalking you and you're aware of it and you
Speaker 3: know that it's doing that, that's not normal animal behavior.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it took me a while to be able
Speaker 3: to process it, but your show really helps. Let me
Speaker 3: tell you what, you know, hearing so many different encounters
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, mine was really not that bad
Speaker 3: compared to some other people's experiences. But now after the fact,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm not so I'm more careful. I'm more
Speaker 3: aware when I'm walking around at night for sure. For example,
Speaker 3: literally last month, for my birthday, I was camping in
Speaker 3: the Gifford Pincho National Forest in Washington State, which was
Speaker 3: an awesome experience, and that is some that's some expansive habitat.
Speaker 3: So I was camping out there and I was doing
Speaker 3: a bunch of mushroom hunting, and I didn't have any
Speaker 3: negative feelings from the forest out there. I didn't feel
Speaker 3: like I was being watched at all. But when it
Speaker 3: got dark, you know, I was definitely staying close to
Speaker 3: my campsite. Definitely not walking through the forest alone. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's always good to have a partner when you're walking
Speaker 3: through the forest. People run into problems all the time.
Speaker 3: Even here in New Jersey, in the Saroland Park across
Speaker 3: the street from where I live, people get lost all
Speaker 3: the time. You know, a couple times a year there,
Speaker 3: search and rescue has to go up there and locate people.
Speaker 3: No one's ever gone missing out there, but people get
Speaker 3: lost often. But I mean in the Gifford Pincher National Forest,
Speaker 3: people go missing. I think there's over over fifty people
Speaker 3: that have been missing out of that National Forest. And
Speaker 3: even here in New Jersey we have the Pine Barrens.
Speaker 3: The Pine Barrens is a million as. I think it's
Speaker 3: the biggest preserve or the biggest green natural space on
Speaker 3: the Eastern Seaboard, which is kind of a lot of
Speaker 3: people don't know that New Jersey has.
Speaker 1: That kind of forest.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's uh, it's definitely there's things out there,
Speaker 3: and it's when you're in the forest. It's really good
Speaker 3: to be aware when I go out into the forest. Now,
Speaker 3: I try to like set my intentions. I try to
Speaker 3: have you know, I try to stay calm and collected.
Speaker 3: I try to feel peaceful. I try to feel loving
Speaker 3: towards I put loving energy out into the forest. I
Speaker 3: give I set my intentions before I go in, you know,
Speaker 3: I introduce myself.
Speaker 1: I do like I give a little prayer.
Speaker 3: I feel like that always helps, and if it doesn't
Speaker 3: help the beings in the forest, at least it helps
Speaker 3: me to calm, calm myself down, be more collected. I
Speaker 3: feel like when you're in the forest, if you have
Speaker 3: a if you can keep your wits to you, even
Speaker 3: if you have a scary experience like that, you're gonna
Speaker 3: be more likely to make rational decisions in a in
Speaker 3: a dangerous situation. For example, if I see a bear
Speaker 3: and it's with its cubs and I freak out in fear,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna be able to think rationally, and I
Speaker 3: might run and put myself into.
Speaker 1: A dangerous situation.
Speaker 3: But if I stay calm and collected, first of all,
Speaker 3: animals pick up on your energy. So your energy, if
Speaker 3: it's common collected, it's not gonna animals will sense that,
Speaker 3: and you're gonna be able to think more rationally. So
Speaker 3: staying common collected is super important. And I feel like
Speaker 3: in that situation where I was out in the forests
Speaker 3: with a broken heart. I was putting off a lot
Speaker 3: of really intense energy and I'm sure whatever was out there.
Speaker 1: Was picking up on that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I'm glad the experience happened because I
Speaker 3: was able to find your podcast, and it's just a
Speaker 3: it's now that I listened to. I've listen into every
Speaker 3: episode and I've really looked into this subject and done
Speaker 3: some research.
Speaker 1: I've learned so much.
Speaker 3: Not that I know what this creature is or what
Speaker 3: its intentions are or what its abilities are. I do
Speaker 3: know what's out there, and I I've learned a lot
Speaker 3: now that I've doven into this subject matter, and it's
Speaker 3: really fascinating and really fun to research.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a it's it's a really unsettling thinking.
Speaker 3: That there is an apex predator out there that is
Speaker 3: so strong, because you know, for so long I was
Speaker 3: under the assumption that humans were the top predator and
Speaker 3: the top apex predator out there. But you know, having
Speaker 3: these experiences, now I know when I go out into
Speaker 3: the forest, I'm not top predator, so I I that's
Speaker 3: really humbled me. But yeah, that was on my experience Vick.
Speaker 3: Also wait one more thing. Also after the fact, I
Speaker 3: did tell my parents about this experience, and they thought
Speaker 3: I was They laughed at me, but they did see
Speaker 3: some interesting things after the fact. So a week or
Speaker 3: two later, you know, my parents, I told them about
Speaker 3: the experience and I said, I thought it was like
Speaker 3: a dog man a weare a wolf. And my parents
Speaker 3: completely laughed at me. But with that said, a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks later, they were I think they were going
Speaker 3: out to like do something in the yard. They're they're
Speaker 3: in the yard and they saw all these two animals
Speaker 3: weigh in the back of the yard, and they thought
Speaker 3: they were a deer, but like something was off. They
Speaker 3: didn't look like deer, and they like were looking more
Speaker 3: closely and realized that they were actually two canines. And
Speaker 3: they realized that it wasn't deer at first because they
Speaker 3: just they were all off from being deer. But they're
Speaker 3: like as high as deer are off the ground on
Speaker 3: all fours. But they they said their fur was way
Speaker 3: too dark to be a deer. And as soon as
Speaker 3: like my parents saw them, they the two canines made
Speaker 3: eye contact with them and as soon.
Speaker 1: As they like looked and registered each other. The canines
Speaker 1: ran away, and my parents said they moved faster than
Speaker 1: any canine that they've ever seen, and like, this is
Speaker 1: New Jersey.
Speaker 3: What kind of large canine it looks like looks like
Speaker 3: it could be a deer from across the field.
Speaker 1: What kind of canine is that big?
Speaker 3: And my parents they called me and they're like, Wiley,
Speaker 3: we just saw two dog man And I was like really,
Speaker 3: and they described what they saw and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think you actually did see two dog men. And
Speaker 3: then they're like, no, it couldn't have been. I don't
Speaker 3: know what it was. They were just really big dogs.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And they were just like in denial
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 3: And another week later my dad was, oh, so sorry
Speaker 3: that last experience. They were in the back of the yard.
Speaker 3: The next time, my dad was walking and he saw
Speaker 3: the same two canine creatures walking on them perimeter of
Speaker 3: the field, and he said they were two giant canine.
Speaker 3: At first he thought they were a deer, and then
Speaker 3: when he like looked closer, he realized that they weren't.
Speaker 3: They were giant, big canines. And he said they acted
Speaker 3: the same way as soon as he saw them, and
Speaker 3: they registered that he was looking at them. They bolted,
Speaker 3: and he said they it looked like a flash of
Speaker 3: lightning when they ran away, and both my parents described
Speaker 3: them running through the forest faster than anything they've ever
Speaker 3: seen moved through the forest. And after that, we started
Speaker 3: finding weird tracks right in front of, like so the
Speaker 3: studio that I'm living in, right outside the door I
Speaker 3: was working in as arborous. It was winter and there's
Speaker 3: snow on the ground, and right outside the door that
Speaker 3: I was having nightmares and locking because I was afraid
Speaker 3: something was going to open it at night. My mom
Speaker 3: found a huge canine track and this track was probably
Speaker 3: the size of my hand are bigger, and my mom
Speaker 3: just my mom found it instead. It shocked her because
Speaker 3: she's ever seen that track before, or any footprint that's
Speaker 3: looked like that ever in her life, and she knows
Speaker 3: I'm into tracking, and she took a picture of it
Speaker 3: and sent it to me and said, Wiley, what on
Speaker 3: earth is this?
Speaker 1: It's huge?
Speaker 3: And I was able to come back and see it
Speaker 3: and it was it was huge, and it was right
Speaker 3: in front of my door. And then there was another
Speaker 3: time where I was hiking and I found more canine
Speaker 3: tracks that were bigger, as bigger, bigger than my hands.
Speaker 3: And uh, you know, the biggest canine tracks that you'll
Speaker 3: typically see in the wild are either wolf or you know,
Speaker 3: some large domesticated, domesticated dog species. And that's one thing
Speaker 3: that I've learned through tracking, is how to identify the
Speaker 3: difference between domesticated dog, a.
Speaker 1: Wolf, a coyote, a fox.
Speaker 3: I could even tell the difference between all these animal
Speaker 3: scats and this giant canine track was it was definitely canine,
Speaker 3: but I could not tell you what kind of canine
Speaker 3: it was. But whatever it was, it is hue and
Speaker 3: it's wandering around uh New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Huh. I wonder what that could be me too?
Speaker 1: Dog man?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say so. Unfortunately, after your parents had their
Speaker 2: own encounters, do they become addicted to the topic of
Speaker 2: dog men or did it just roll off like water
Speaker 2: off of a duck's back.
Speaker 1: It rolls off water like a duck's back. They are.
Speaker 3: Very they're they're I'm not saying that boomers are closed minded,
Speaker 3: but they you know, my dad's a Jersey boy, he's
Speaker 3: like a city guy, and my mom's a California girl.
Speaker 3: She grew up in the Bay Area and Uh, they
Speaker 3: just aren't like. My mom's kind of outdoorsy, but not
Speaker 3: not like me.
Speaker 1: And my dad's.
Speaker 3: He's a city boys. He's a gardener. My dad likes
Speaker 3: to garden, but he does not go hiking or camping
Speaker 3: or backpacking. He likes to think he likes to fish,
Speaker 3: but he doesn't even.
Speaker 1: Go fishing ever.
Speaker 3: I grew up like not really doing anything other than
Speaker 3: hiking with my mom as a kid.
Speaker 1: My dad sort of was always busy working or gardening.
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, they they saw what they saw, and
Speaker 1: they described as it being something that they've never seen
Speaker 1: before and it being really large. And I told them
Speaker 1: what I believed, and they just they.
Speaker 3: Don't want to believe that there's animals out there that
Speaker 3: haven't been recognized by science, so they kind of laugh
Speaker 3: at my suggestion of what it probably was.
Speaker 1: And no, they're not into the dog man topic.
Speaker 3: But they're happy that I'm passionate about this subject, so
Speaker 3: they're not, you know, they just laugh at me about
Speaker 3: it and make fun of me. That's why it's hard
Speaker 3: for me to like, you know, talk about these kinds
Speaker 3: of things. You know, But with my background in wildlife biology,
Speaker 3: I have a really good sense of what kind of
Speaker 3: creatures exist, and my intuition tells me that this was
Speaker 3: nothing that should be out here and nothing that's recorded
Speaker 3: by science. It was really intimidating and it clearly was
Speaker 3: doing its best to scare me. But yeah, so my
Speaker 3: parents don't really believe in bigfoot or cryptids or anything
Speaker 3: out of the usual. They're not into aliens or anything.
Speaker 3: So they're they're, you know, black and white type people.
Speaker 3: They're awesome though. My parents are really really cool and
Speaker 3: totally encouraged me to do whatever I've wanted throughout my
Speaker 3: whole life. They like to poke a little fun at me,
Speaker 3: but it's all in, it's all lighthearted.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but it's.
Speaker 3: Interesting because like they it's like they they know something's
Speaker 3: out there because they saw something, and they're like.
Speaker 1: All right, Wiley just talked about seeing the dog man.
Speaker 3: Then we see these weird canines like it's so coincidental,
Speaker 3: it's just too weird. And then my mom's noticing these
Speaker 3: big canine tracks. It's like almost they want to believe,
Speaker 3: but they just they can't.
Speaker 1: They can't. What what can you do? You know? And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people like that.
Speaker 3: I was like that I really had a hard time
Speaker 3: accepting that there could be a dog man out there
Speaker 3: until I had this experience. So you know a lot
Speaker 3: of people got to see it to believe it, and
Speaker 3: that's okay. You know, everyone has their own truth.
Speaker 2: What's pretty rich is they saw dog men, but they
Speaker 2: still don't believe the world is a lot more comfortable
Speaker 2: of a place, though, when you don't believe that things
Speaker 2: like this are out there, but when you actually see
Speaker 2: them the way they did, that's kind of hard to
Speaker 2: figure out. It's just a shame. It's got to be
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3: I just did a road trip across the country and
Speaker 3: I met my dad in Minnesota and we were driving
Speaker 3: some through some really rural areas in Michigan actually has
Speaker 3: a really large uh.
Speaker 1: Bigfoot. I don't know. Bigfoot seems to be like it
Speaker 1: must be out there because they were of bigfoot signs
Speaker 1: and statues and things like that. But I was driving
Speaker 1: with my dad and I was just.
Speaker 3: Hoping something would cross in front of the road so
Speaker 3: he could believe me. And I know that like these,
Speaker 3: there are cryptids out there. But of course, you know,
Speaker 3: when you want something, want to see something, you're less
Speaker 3: likely to see it in.
Speaker 1: My opinion, But yeah, they've seen them and they're in denial.
Speaker 3: I feel like you really have to see one do
Speaker 3: something unusual, like maybe if they saw them stand up
Speaker 3: on two feet, they would be more likely to believe me.
Speaker 3: But they saw them on all fours. But you know,
Speaker 3: there's just no canines that are that tall in all
Speaker 3: fours that I'm aware of.
Speaker 1: No, there aren't.
Speaker 2: And like I said, it's just more convenient to not
Speaker 2: believe that they saw what they actually did see. I
Speaker 2: understand why they're taking that stance on this, but for
Speaker 2: someone like you who had such a traumatic experience, it's
Speaker 2: got to be so frustrating.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, yes, yes it is.
Speaker 3: It really is, especially with this subject in particular, because.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've.
Speaker 3: Never met anyone else that's really had an encounter in person,
Speaker 3: so it's I feel a little isolated in this, uh,
Speaker 3: with this experience and any other experience I've had for
Speaker 3: that matter. But yeah, it's really Uh, it's really a
Speaker 3: tough subject to talk about, so I pretty much just
Speaker 3: keep it to myself. But with that said, I really
Speaker 3: enjoy being able to have this topic to research and enjoy,
Speaker 3: you know, for.
Speaker 1: Example, I really enjoy your podcast.
Speaker 3: Having an experience like this makes it really interesting to
Speaker 3: hear other people's experiences and stuff.
Speaker 1: You could really learn a lot from just listening to
Speaker 1: people's details about these animals behavior. So whenever I'm listening
Speaker 1: to your episodes, I just try to pick up as
Speaker 1: much as I can.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you know about the show, and I'm
Speaker 2: glad you like it so much. And you said just
Speaker 2: a moment ago that you feel kind of isolated. If
Speaker 2: you'd like, I could always put you into contact with
Speaker 2: other Dogmen eyewitnesses. Just say the word in yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: make that happen.
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be excellent. That would be really excellent.
Speaker 3: I would really be interested in getting in contact with
Speaker 3: some of the individuals that were in the same county
Speaker 3: that were on your show. So if any of those,
Speaker 3: if anyone from New Jersey has had any experiences with
Speaker 3: the dog Man and would like to talk about it,
Speaker 3: please reach out to me.
Speaker 1: I'm I would love to pick your brain. Feel free
Speaker 1: to reach out to me. Vic if you wouldn't mind
Speaker 1: posting my Facebook on link under the episode of today,
Speaker 1: that would be awesome.
Speaker 2: Count on it. You know, I'll definitely do that, glad
Speaker 2: to do it? Well, Wildy, I've got a lot of
Speaker 2: questions for you, but we're already an hour in. So
Speaker 2: with that in mind, would you be willing to come
Speaker 2: back for a part too, to do a Q and A.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I'd more than that. Happy too. That sounds great?
Speaker 2: Oh good, Well, yeah that's the case, then that's what
Speaker 2: we'll do. But having said that, I can't thank you
Speaker 2: enough for coming on to share that experience with us
Speaker 2: and to tell us all about these other things that
Speaker 2: you've done. But yeah, like I said, I'll get back
Speaker 2: with you to schedule that Q.
Speaker 1: And A in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just hear that sometime next week.
Speaker 3: Then awesome, VIC sounds good. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: I'll be in touch. Thanks.
Speaker 2: Oh no, you know you're welcome and I'm looking forward
Speaker 2: to it too. Thanks against mature your time and have
Speaker 2: a great night.