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Speaker 1: At a book.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like to be able to listen to the

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show without ads and have full access to bonus content,

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that's an option. To find out how, please go to

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Dogman Encounters dot com Forward Slash Podcast. Tonight's guest is

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Wiley Bureau. Wiley, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Vick, how you doing today?

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Speaker 2: Oh, if you're to Middlin, how about yourself?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing quite well, quite well, no complaints so far.

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Thanks for asking.

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Speaker 2: Oh, you're welcome and that's a great thing. Wiley, please

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give us some brief bio on yourself.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Vic, not a problem. My name is Wiley Bureau

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and I grew up in central New Jersey. I was

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born in Princeton, and I grew up in Hillsboro. Hillsborough

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basically lands dead smack in the center of New Jersey.

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If there was a Central Jersey, Hillsboro would be right

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in the center. It's kind of an interesting town. When

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I was a kid, it was quite rural, mostly farmland,

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some sub suburban communities, but it was pretty much on

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the border of like the highly developed New Jersey that

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goes north into New York City, that like super developed

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part of New Jersey. Basically stops at my town. So, like,

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the northern side of my town is very developed, and

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then when you get towards the northwestern side, it turns

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becomes more rural and you hit the Saroland Mountain Preserve.

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And I grew up on a street that was like

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right at the top of the Sarland Mountain Preserve, really

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beautiful property. My parents had surrounded by farmland and forest.

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So I, you know, growing up in one of the

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most densely populated states per capita, I was lucky enough

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to you know, be surrounded by the outdoors.

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Speaker 1: It was like a little paradise in New Jersey.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't have like the typical childhood growing up

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in New Jersey. I didn't have neighbors and kids all around.

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It was basically just me and my folks. And ever

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since I was a little baby, my mom, before I

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could even walk, would throw me into her backpack, one

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of those little baby backpacks that you could hike around with,

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and she would take me hiking all through the mountains

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and the trails just as a kid. And you know,

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I really grow up. I grew up just exploring in

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the forest. I had a lot of freedom as a kid.

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My mom would just let me run outside. We did

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have a rule though, if my mom ever whistled or

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called for me, I had to come right away. So

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you know, she had me trained really well, and you know,

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I never ran into issues or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: But as a kid, my town in Hillsborough was very rural.

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Speaker 3: There was one traffic light in the town at Amwell

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and two O six, and that was the only traffic

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light in the town. Today, most of the farmland and

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a lot of the open space has been developed. Now

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there's a traffic light practically on every single street corner.

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So it's really this town has changed so much within

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thirty six years. I actually turned to thirty six November

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twenty second of last month, and I actually just moved

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back to New Jersey from Oregon.

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Speaker 1: In Washington. I'd been living between the both states for

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the past year.

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Speaker 3: I was a wildland forest firefighting out there, which was

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quite incredible.

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Speaker 1: To back up a little bit, so, I grew up

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in hill Borough. I went to the.

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Speaker 3: School systems here in Hillsboro. I graduated high school in

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two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: High school. You know, in New Jersey, everyone was really preppy.

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Speaker 3: Everyone had like Abercrompie and Fitch, and I was sort

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of like one of the you know, a little bit

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of an outcast. I you know, I was never really

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bullied in high school. I had plenty of friends, but

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you know, I was really into the outdoors. And my

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senior year of high school, I founded the first outdoor

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survival program in high school and that was a really

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great experience and the club actually still exists today, so

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that was really fun.

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Speaker 1: Well after high school, I.

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Speaker 3: Didn't know what I really wanted to do with life,

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so and I went to a wilderness survival school.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't like any survival school. This was an expensive.

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Speaker 3: Prestigious survival school where after completing a year long course,

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they would certify you to be an outdoor survival instructor.

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And the school was located in Duvall, Washington. So at

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eighteen years old, I got shipped across the country and

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dropped off ten miles up the foothills of the Cascade

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Mountains to go to this survival school. And it was

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an amazing experience and I became really comfortable in the outdoors.

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I learned to track animals, I learned about botany and

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ecology and what plants were edible, and which plants are medicinal,

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and I learned how to you know, do hunting in

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a primitive style, and it was just like an incredible experience.

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I learned every tree species, in plants species in the

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Pacific Northwest, and I just really loved that experience. I

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got to do intensive camping all throughout Washington State, Oregon, California,

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and oh Man, that experience just really gave me this

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confidence that I never would have gained otherwise, a confidence that,

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you know, if stuff hits the fan and I have

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to go off grid, I will be in a better

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position than a lot of other people. So with that said,

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you know, after the program, I ended up moving back

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to New Jersey and I worked at Starbucks briefly, I

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became the assistant manager, and then I decided that I

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want to do more traveling, and I looked into this

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program called AmeriCorps, and it was a really cool program

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because you get to try all different types of jobs

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and travel all over the country helping people. So I

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ended up doing that for two years, which was another

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really great, amazing experience. I really got to learn so

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many different trades. I did carpentry, I became certified as

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a wild and forest firefighter. Through that program, I also

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got certified through on FEMA to do disaster relief, so

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I was sent all over the country anytime there was

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a natural disaster.

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Speaker 1: I got to go to.

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Speaker 3: Alabama because there are tornadoes. I got to go into

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Texas due to some flooding. Then I got to do

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wild and forest firefighting all over the South. I was

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in Virginia, North Carolina, New Jersey, New York, all really

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over the west coast doing firefighting, which was really fun.

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And I still hadn't gone to college yet. But while

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I was firefighting, I met a bunch of wildlife biologists

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that we're just so passionate about saving wildlife and giving

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back to nature. And some of these people that was

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getting to work with were so inspiring to me, and

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like through my outdoor background, I realized, like one of

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my passions is, you know, just giving back to nature

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and doing what I can to make the forest healthier

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because like the human race, we tend to take and

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take and take from nature. And like I really noticed

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like in this life, if I could give back, you know,

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I feel like I'll live a good life. So that's

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sort of been one of my goals whenever I'm looking

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for work and just in life, you know, I love

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going out into the forest, hiking, mushroom hunting, camping, and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So after AmeriCorps, I ended up basically moving back to

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the Pacific Northwest.

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Speaker 1: I was living in Washington State. I gained residency.

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Speaker 3: Then I went to the Evergreen State College and I

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studied wildlife biology and basically forest management, and I got

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my degree, and I ended up moving back to New

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Jersey again, and I started doing tree work because it

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was just a job I had landed, and it was

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a really interesting job because it was somewhat on science based.

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When I got hired, I learned to climb trees and

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prune trees properly. And then I also got into the

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plant healthcare aspect, where I was going around in treating

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plants and trees for certain diseases, and I also did

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a bunch of invasive specie removal. So after being an

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arbors for five years in New Jersey, I really got

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out on living in New Jersey and just being like

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this job really just made me feel kind of stuck.

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So I just manifested moving back to Oregon to the

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Pacific Northwest.

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Speaker 1: So This was about a year ago.

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Speaker 3: I moved back to the Pacific Northwest as an arborist.

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But I knew that when I want when I got

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back to the Pacific Northwest, I want to do fire

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fighting because that's a really way you could It's a

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really good way to help you know the forest and

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help people, and it was just like something I've always

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wanted to get back into.

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Speaker 1: So a year ago I moved back. I moved into Portland.

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Speaker 3: I did treework for a couple months, and then I

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found a job as a wild and forest firefighter and

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that's what I continued to do the rest of the

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year in Washington, in Washington and Oregon basically, but I

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was based out of Salem, Morgan, So all summer I

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was out in the mountains fighting fires, running chainsaws, and

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just doing everything I can to like basically save the

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forest out there. And it was an incredible experience. So

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right now it's the off season, I'm not doing any firefighting.

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I'm still on call for any disaster relief that happened

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in the country, and in fact, right now I just

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want to put my best wishes out there to everyone

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in the Pacific Northwest, and I just hope everyone's safe.

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And because there's major flooding going on right now, it's

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super unprecedented. So my heart goes out to everyone out

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in Pacific Northwest right now. I was actually in Washington

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State one week ago, so I missed that storm by

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a week. I actually just moved back to New Jersey

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a few days ago. So that's basically a little brief

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bio on myself.

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Speaker 2: Pick Holy cow, wile Y, you sure have lived an

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exciting life.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I try to

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not stay stagnant. I really love adventures and I love

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the outdoors and uh yeah, I just I like to

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I'd like to do different things and try different jobs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so thanks Vick.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, you're welcome. Yeah, they can make a movie

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about you, about that life you've lived.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe they could.

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Speaker 2: And speaking of work, from what I understand, you're looking

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for employment right now. Would you like to put a

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plug out for that? Oh?

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Speaker 1: Sure, Vic, that would be an incredible Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I am a certified wild forest firefighter and I'm

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unemployed right now, but I'm looking for different work, something

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a little less physically vigorous and a little safer. But

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I'm in the field of forest management and wildlife biology.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, if anyone.

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Speaker 3: Knows any positions available, I'm flexible, I'm willing to move.

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And yeah, I have an amazing sense of the outdoors

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as far as reading the landscape, tracking animals. And yeah,

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I'm a very hard worker doing treework and firefighting. There's

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I'm happy to work long, long hours and there's no

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job that I'm not afraid to do. So if anyone

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out there has any jobs in mind, please keep me

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in mind. So thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: Vic, Oh, you're welcome, glad to do it. And if

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anyone listening does have an employment opportunity for Wily that

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you'd like to contact them about, then if you go

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to the description for tonight's show, you'll find a link

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to his Facebook profile that'll make it really easy for

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you to reach them. If you've had a dog mean

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encounter that you'd like to speak with me about, whether

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in private or on the show, please go to Dogmanencounters

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dot com and submit a report. Let's get into your

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encounters now. Please give us every last detail that comes

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to mind.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Vic, So I'm gonna rewind a couple of weeks

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before the encounter, just to give some background up to

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this that leads us up to the situation. So basically,

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about two weeks maybe three weeks before this encounter, this

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situation happened, I was on a camping trip in Florida.

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I did a seventeen day long camping trip. I was

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working as an artist at the time. I'd been working

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for about three years, and I had a bunch of

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vacation times saved up. So we were coming close to January,

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and my vacation hours weren't going to roll over. So

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if I didn't use the vacation time, I wouldn't I'd

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lose it.

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Speaker 1: So I took full advantage.

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Speaker 3: Of that and I went on a seventeen day camping

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trip in Florida. So I had a partner at the time,

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and this girl was like the love of my life.

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I wanted to marry her and I wanted to have

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a family with her, and that's that was our plan.

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So she was about seven months pregnant at this time,

241
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and I was under an assumption that it was my boy.

242
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I was supposed to be a boy and I was

243
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expecting a son. So, you know, going on this camping trip,

244
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,799
she completely encouraged. You know, she she was living at

245
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,480
her parents lived right across the street, so she was

246
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totally fine, and she worked from home, and so it

247
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:13,799
wasn't really a big problem for me to go on

248
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this vacation, and she was totally encouraging of it. But like,

249
00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:24,759
I don't know, fourteen days into the vacation, she called

250
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:28,559
me and told me that she was done, and she

251
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,480
moved me out of the house, which caught me off

252
00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:33,879
guard because of the day before, she left me a message,

253
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,559
you know, telling me that the baby was kicking. And

254
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,879
I don't know, anyway, to make a long story short,

255
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,399
I was living with her, and I hadn't lived at

256
00:15:43,399 --> 00:15:47,159
my folks house in probably ten years, so I was

257
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,080
thirty two at this time, and she broke up with me,

258
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,039
moved all my stuff out of our apartment while I

259
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,200
was on vacation into my parents' house. Didn't give me

260
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any reason why. Obviously, I was trying to do everything

261
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,600
I could to fix this because I was, you know,

262
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,399
thinking we were going to have a kid, and so like,

263
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:09,679
I ended up moving back in with my parents, and

264
00:16:09,679 --> 00:16:12,039
it was like I was so depressed and I felt

265
00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:16,519
so defeated, and I was heartbroken, and I didn't understand

266
00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:20,120
what was going on because I had done everything.

267
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,480
Speaker 1: In this relationship. I had already set.

268
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,519
Speaker 3: Up a whole nursery for the child, I had time

269
00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:27,759
taken off from work, I had family members sending me

270
00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:31,720
baby gifts, and my main employer had given me all

271
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,039
this stuff from their baby who was just born or

272
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,080
who was born a few a couple of years earlier,

273
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:42,440
and so like, when this happened, it was a huge embarrassment.

274
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:46,759
But after I moved back in with my parents, the

275
00:16:46,799 --> 00:16:48,960
girl was still having me come over and cook dinner

276
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,559
and do all this stuff for her, and she really

277
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:56,120
was just taking complete advantage of me. So one day

278
00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,480
I was at my parents' house feeling really depressed, hoping

279
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,639
that there was a chance that we would get back together,

280
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,039
and she called me one night and said that, yeah,

281
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,079
I decided I don't want the baby to have the

282
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,920
name you chose, and your name's not gonna be on

283
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,680
the birth certificate. And I had I was like, what,

284
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,279
that's extremely hurtful, and then she i'm fessed up and

285
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,319
said I'm so sorry it's not yours. And a bunch

286
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,720
of red flags came came up in that during that time,

287
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:28,920
because like when I thought about it like it kind

288
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,400
of made sense because yeah, I don't need to go

289
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,440
into more details, but it ended up not being mine,

290
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:39,200
and I was very upset. My family was upset and disappointed.

291
00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:40,519
Speaker 1: You know.

292
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,640
Speaker 3: So many years later now, like I realized that the

293
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,160
whole situation was a blessing in disguise. I wouldn't have

294
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,960
been happy in that relationship, and it would have you know,

295
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,480
it never would have worked, and it wasn't my kid anyway.

296
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:58,039
Speaker 1: So I'm at my parents' house and I'm really mourning.

297
00:17:57,759 --> 00:18:00,759
Speaker 3: This whole situation. It was really hard my parents to

298
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:03,880
accept at the time. You know, a few weeks after

299
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,440
the fact, they totally were on my side and we're

300
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,799
happy that the situation happened the way it did because

301
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:15,720
they really never liked the girl at all. So my

302
00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:19,079
parents' property, like I said earlier in the interview, is

303
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,480
kind of in a rural area of New Jersey. We're

304
00:18:21,519 --> 00:18:26,160
surrounded by farmland and forest and this this is my home.

305
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,599
I grew up hiking out here. I know, like every

306
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,160
square into the forest.

307
00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 1: Behind my house.

308
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 3: I've hiked all in the farmland and all the forests

309
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,799
around the farmland, and I really feel comfortable out here,

310
00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:42,519
Like it's my second home. And you know, after living

311
00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:46,559
in Washington State for a long time, the forests out

312
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:50,400
there are so dense and expansive, and you know, they

313
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,559
can really give you a foreboding feeling when you're out there.

314
00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:56,519
So like, you know, coming out here, I just feel

315
00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:59,200
like I'm kind of like top predator king of the forest.

316
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,160
And I was having one of those mourning moments, like

317
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,079
a morning situation, Like I was upset and I wasn't

318
00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:11,720
thinking irrationally at all. And typically when I go into

319
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,000
the forest, I keep a clear head. Being out in

320
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:16,279
the forest for me is like gives me a sense

321
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:19,200
of peace and it's i that's one of the reasons

322
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,160
why I love hiking. But and typically when I'm in

323
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,720
the forest, I have like a really calm, collected mindsetting.

324
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 1: But in this situation, I was crushed. I was heartbroken,

325
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,599
and I really went outside. You're like in a blurgerent state.

326
00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:39,880
I wasn't thinking rationally. I went out without a flashlight.

327
00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:44,880
Speaker 3: So my parents on one side of the road is

328
00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:48,279
I live on East Mountain Road, and on one side

329
00:19:48,319 --> 00:19:50,440
of the road is the Sourland Mountains And basically you

330
00:19:50,519 --> 00:19:52,359
cross the road from my parents' house, and it goes

331
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,400
straight up a hill into the mountains and it's all

332
00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:58,119
forested and there's mountain esque features. It's a tiny it's

333
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,640
not even a real mountain, it's more of a but

334
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,039
there's a lot of mountain esque features, like giant boulders,

335
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,039
and there's like spring fed creeks, and one of the

336
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,400
creeks is called the Roaring Rocks because like when you

337
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,640
find the mouth of the creek kind of near where this,

338
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,640
you cross over the street from my parents' house, and

339
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,960
you could see the creek and you follow the creek

340
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,880
and the rocks, and the creek get bigger and bigger

341
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,119
and bigger the further up the hill you get, until

342
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,119
you can't see the creek anymore, right, but you could

343
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,119
hear the creek under the rocks, so they call it

344
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:33,000
the Rumbling Rocks. So a lot of these like really

345
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:36,920
special like mountain esque features are off trail and a

346
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,079
lot of the people there's hiking trails all around there.

347
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,599
There's a park and a lot of the people that

348
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,079
go to the hike up, but the cirlands don't know

349
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,400
of these like secret spots with giant boulders. And there's

350
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,880
this one spot called Devil's half Acre and there's no

351
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,559
trails that lead to it. I feel like I'm probably

352
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:56,720
one of the few people that actually know where.

353
00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: Devil's half Acre is. So it's not that far from

354
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:02,759
my parents' house.

355
00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:06,559
Speaker 3: Like you cross the street and like five six seven

356
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,759
minutes walking up into the forest. You maybe ten minutes

357
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,960
and you're at Devil's half Acre, which is this boulder

358
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,279
field in the middle of the forest where trees can't

359
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:18,720
really grow in the middle because the boulders block the

360
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:22,720
trees from growing. And there's all these little crevices and

361
00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:26,880
caves that you could crawl into, and there's definitely animals

362
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:27,319
living there.

363
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting place.

364
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 3: Every time I go there during the day, I see vultures,

365
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:35,640
so there's like a vulturnist that lives there. Every time

366
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,319
I've gone there, I've seen a vulture. It's really strange.

367
00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:40,079
And one of the last times I went there, I

368
00:21:40,079 --> 00:21:43,240
saw baby vultures, which was really kind of cool to see.

369
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: Is they were.

370
00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 3: Super cute baby vultures. Yeah, I've never seen baby vultures before.

371
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:51,319
But there's all types of animals that dene up in

372
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,599
these like rock crevices, and you could some of these

373
00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:57,559
boulders are twenty feet up in the air, like when

374
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:02,200
you're climbing on them, your rock scrambling. It is really

375
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,480
fun and it's a really cool spot. A lot of

376
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,839
people that grew up in New Jersey, in Hillsbury, New Jersey,

377
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,119
have no idea that this even exists in the town.

378
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,920
So it's one of my little, happy, quiet, secret spots

379
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,440
that I don't really tell many people about. So anyway,

380
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,759
to get back to the story, I'm really upset and

381
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,640
I just it's nighttime and I decided to go into

382
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,920
the two Devil's half Acre the Roaring Rocks across the street.

383
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,960
In the wilderness school I went to when I was eighteen,

384
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,279
we would do a lot of night hiking and we

385
00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:42,920
wouldn't use flashlights because if you use flashlights, it ruins

386
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,440
your night vision. So I often will go on night

387
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,359
hikes without flashlights to try to train my night vision

388
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,319
to be as the best it can be. So this

389
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,119
time I didn't grab a flashlight. I didn't have any weapons,

390
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,960
no self defense. It was just closed on my back

391
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,920
and me. So I'm going out into the forest at

392
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,559
night and I crossed the street and I'm making my

393
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:09,240
way over Devil's half acre and I'm heartbroken.

394
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: I'm so upset, and I.

395
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: Basically have a why me moment, and I just laid

396
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,839
on one of the rocks, yelling up at the universe.

397
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 1: Whymy.

398
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 3: And it was just like kind of one of those

399
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,240
moments I'm sure all of us has had in our lives.

400
00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:30,440
And I was just thinking, like I also like I

401
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,240
don't know, I just got this feeling like, oh am

402
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,680
I disrupting the forest, like and then I got this

403
00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:39,640
egotistical feeling like, no, I'm not disrupting the forest.

404
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 1: In fact, this is my forest. I grew up here,

405
00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:49,440
and uh, I was just being loud, and all of

406
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:50,400
a sudden.

407
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,039
Speaker 3: I heard a growl, a low, low growl, and.

408
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,799
Speaker 1: It sounded like it was cane.

409
00:23:59,839 --> 00:24:05,559
Speaker 3: I And but when it happened, my heart dropped into

410
00:24:05,599 --> 00:24:10,319
my stomach became a little tiny pig, and instantly I

411
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,279
knew that it was something.

412
00:24:13,599 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: Unusual.

413
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 3: I also, I knew immediately just my intuition, like something

414
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,759
in the back of my head as if I was

415
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:23,680
looking at the creature, which I was, and I couldn't

416
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,759
see anything, which was even scarier because like, I'm hanging

417
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:30,839
out in these in this forest by myself no flashlight,

418
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,359
and I'm being loud and obnoxious, and something started growling

419
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,119
at me, and it was a low, foreboding growl. And

420
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,880
when you're in the forest alone with no flashlight and

421
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,880
something growls at you, it's extremely unsettling. So I instantly

422
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,279
regretted having that egotistical vibe like I'm king of the forest.

423
00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:59,200
And I instantly was humbled and I was like, oh, okay,

424
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:07,039
I was wrong, and yeah, so I immediately I immediately

425
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:10,720
felt terror in that moment, like I need to leave

426
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,039
right now, and.

427
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,839
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I did.

428
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 3: So I was like, Okay, it's time to get out

429
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,519
of here, and let me remind you I don't have

430
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:25,640
a flashlight. And I was studying in college wildlife biology

431
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:30,519
and I've i have seen black bears in person. I've

432
00:25:30,519 --> 00:25:33,960
seen mountain lions in the wild, and I've seen coyotes

433
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,680
and wolves, and I've actually seen a black bear at

434
00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,759
night without a flashlight. When I was living in Duval,

435
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,599
Washington in the wildern School, I used to have to

436
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,160
walk back and forth from people's houses that I knew

437
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,519
that were in the Wilderner School program, and often late

438
00:25:50,519 --> 00:25:52,119
at night, I would end up walking back to my

439
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:53,880
yurt with no flashlight.

440
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: One time, I was coming up to the driveway.

441
00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 3: That I lived down and I heard a black bear

442
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,279
and I had to walk past it to get to

443
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:03,920
where I was going, and I had no flashlight.

444
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: And I had nothing to do. I just had to

445
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,079
walk past it.

446
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 3: And that was one of the scariest moments that at

447
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240
that time of my life. But I was immediately able

448
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,079
to recognize what the animal was. I could hear it

449
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,920
was a bear. I knew that even without a flashlight.

450
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,839
I knew it was going through the dumpsters. There were

451
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,920
garbage cans at the top of the driveway, and the

452
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,279
bear was just its scavenging through the trash can. So

453
00:26:27,759 --> 00:26:29,400
it freaked me out, and it scared me a lot,

454
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:33,559
but I just walked past it confidently and went down

455
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:36,319
the driveway to my ur. And it's funny because the

456
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,480
next morning, when it was light out, we were driving

457
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:40,799
up the hill to the end of the driveway, the

458
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,440
little black bear was scavenging out of the trash cans again,

459
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,279
and the bear was actually small. It was a young

460
00:26:47,319 --> 00:26:49,720
black bear, and when we drove past, it ran into

461
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,359
the forest. But with that said, I didn't have a flashlight,

462
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,319
and I knew exactly what that animal was, so let

463
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,079
me get back to the story. So I'm in the

464
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,400
forest and I hear this growl, and I don't have

465
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,079
a flashlight, but I could tell you right away it

466
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,279
was canine. I could just hear it. It sounded like

467
00:27:10,599 --> 00:27:14,920
a large canine, but it was such a deep, deep growl,

468
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:17,960
and it didn't sound like any It didn't sound like

469
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,319
a domesticated dog at all, and like it didn't sound

470
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,960
like a coyote, and it didn't sound like a wolf,

471
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,720
but it sounded like some sort of canine. But I

472
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:29,880
wasn't even really trying to analyze exactly what it was

473
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,640
at this point, I just realized I had to get

474
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,240
out of there. So I'm trying to quickly move through

475
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,319
this forest, not trip over boulders. There's multi floor rowse

476
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,680
sticker bushes and I'm walking through them getting kind of

477
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,240
torn up.

478
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: And I.

479
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: Finally make it to my street, the street to cross

480
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,279
over into the fields, and I felt a little bit better.

481
00:27:52,279 --> 00:27:53,960
I was like, Okay, I made it to the street,

482
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:56,359
no big deal. So I crossed the street and I

483
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,880
get into the field. So near where my parents live,

484
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,160
there's a few fields there's one neighbor next to my

485
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,200
parents' house. So if you're facing the street from the

486
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,319
front of my parents' house to the right is my

487
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,240
neighbor's house and a field at the back of their house.

488
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:16,160
In between my parents' house and my neighbor's house is

489
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:22,160
a green strip between the fields. So on the other

490
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,440
side of my neighbor's house is another field. So basically

491
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,839
where I was coming out of the forest, I was

492
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,559
crossing the street and going to the into the field

493
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,880
on the other side of my neighbor's house. And I

494
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,960
get into the field and I'm thinking, okay, I'm probably okay.

495
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:39,680
But I make it through the field and I get

496
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,039
into the green belt and I'm not into the next

497
00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:44,519
field by my neighbor's house yet. I'm sort of halfway

498
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:47,599
into this green belt cross about to cross into the field,

499
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:50,640
and that's when I could hear the whatever was in

500
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,559
the forest coming through the forest following me. And that's

501
00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:01,079
that's when I realized this was something unnuws, because like,

502
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,440
I've ran into predators and they just they don't stalk

503
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:08,799
you through the forest like this. First of all, I

504
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,000
was keeping a safe distance from me, but it was

505
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:15,720
following me from behind. So anyway, I'm I'm crossing the

506
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:18,920
green belt and I hear this thing coming and that

507
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,440
freaked me out more than the gral, honestly. So I

508
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:25,079
start kind of making my way through the green belt

509
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:28,599
and I'm running through the field at this point really

510
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,759
really fast, because basically, once you get through this field,

511
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,119
one more green belt and then I'm in my parents yard.

512
00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:38,839
And my parents have a barn, and my dad built

513
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:41,000
a photography studio on the barn, and at the time,

514
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:44,720
I was living in their edition where the photography studio was,

515
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,400
which faces the back of my property and it faces

516
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:53,119
all the farmland. So you know, I am feeling a

517
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,720
sense of fear that I haven't felt in my honestly. Ever,

518
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,559
this this feeling I felt was scarier than when I

519
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:08,599
saw the black bear at night. So basically, I'm I'm

520
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,039
really freaked out at this point.

521
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:11,799
Speaker 1: I don't know what's behind me.

522
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:15,759
Speaker 3: I feel like it's some sort of canine, but it

523
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,599
didn't seem like a normal canine. I don't know, but

524
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,480
I wasn't really thinking. I was just trying to get

525
00:30:20,519 --> 00:30:23,680
back to safety at this point. So I'm crossing through

526
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,599
the green belt, I'm running through the field. I'm going

527
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:29,720
through the one more green belt to get into my

528
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:32,839
parents yard. And I get into my parents' yard and

529
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,559
I get into the room where I'm staying, and I

530
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:38,599
keep the door.

531
00:30:38,359 --> 00:30:40,839
Speaker 1: Open, and this is like, this was my safety. I

532
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,400
felt safe. I was like, Okay, I'm cool. I'm in

533
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,680
my room that's facing the back of the property.

534
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 3: And I basically just wait there and I could hear

535
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,680
the animal coming through the going through my neighbor's field.

536
00:30:55,799 --> 00:30:58,200
I could hear it panting basically the whole time it

537
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,319
was behind me. What really freaked me out too, It

538
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,759
wasn't trying to be stealthy, and you could hear panting

539
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:08,160
and breathing as it's coming through the fields behind me.

540
00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:10,359
So that's kind of why I kept the door open.

541
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,960
I wanted to see what this was. I mean, studying

542
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,680
wildlife biology and stuff like that, I am intrigued to

543
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,000
see what these kinds of any animal, any wildlife. But yeah,

544
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:24,880
so I'm freaked out, but I feel a little bit safer,

545
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,920
and I'm keeping my door open. I'm dead silent and

546
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,839
I'm listening, and I could hear whatever it is coming

547
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,839
through the green belt and crossing into my parents yard.

548
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,319
Speaker 1: And that's when I could see it, and it was huge.

549
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,200
It was literally it looked like it could have been

550
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,920
a black bear, but it had the body, the slender,

551
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,880
longer body of a canine, and I knew instantly it

552
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,599
was a canine. And it's crossing right in front of me.

553
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: And the interesting thing was, until this point, it never

554
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,759
came closer than one hundred feet to me as it

555
00:31:59,799 --> 00:32:03,720
was docking, which was really strange. It kept a safe distance,

556
00:32:03,759 --> 00:32:05,839
but it let me know it was following me, which

557
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,319
was not normal animal behavior.

558
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,519
Speaker 1: And I picked that up right away.

559
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 3: And so basically it's crossing through my yard and I

560
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,799
could see just the shadow of it, and it's you

561
00:32:19,799 --> 00:32:22,559
could hear. It's at this point, it's fifty feet in

562
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,599
front of me, like if there's an oak that's probably

563
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,319
like sixty feet away, and it's crossing in front of

564
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,880
the oak, right right in front of me. And I

565
00:32:31,359 --> 00:32:33,359
didn't have time to get a flashlight or anything. But

566
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,680
this thing's panting and breathing loudly as it's walking through

567
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,920
my yard, and I could I could see it, but

568
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:42,839
I can't see any like details, but I see this

569
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,559
thing go right through my yard. My door is open

570
00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:49,079
and I'm dead, silent, dead still, and it walks right

571
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,240
past me into the field next to my house. At

572
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,119
this point, it's about seventy five feet away from me,

573
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,559
and it's just chilling, facing me.

574
00:32:59,079 --> 00:32:59,799
Speaker 1: Not moving.

575
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 3: In the field, I could see a shadow of it,

576
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,559
and you could tell it was a canine. It was

577
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:07,880
literally sitting up on its behind. I couldn't see it perfectly,

578
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,799
but you could. There's like a tiny, tiny little green

579
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:13,480
belt with a little some shrubbery and then the field

580
00:33:13,559 --> 00:33:15,279
and you could see into this field a lot better

581
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,160
than you could see into my neighbor's field. And I

582
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,079
could see it perched up there, not far away, just sitting,

583
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,119
not moving, just and it starts making these crazy noises.

584
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,240
It's like it's like growling. It's kind of growling there

585
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:32,680
and like panting and like doing this little bark was

586
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:40,400
like And I whistled to it because I'm, you know,

587
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,640
in my door and safety, and I whistled to this

588
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,559
creature and it stopped and.

589
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: It completely reacted to my whistle.

590
00:33:49,119 --> 00:33:52,599
Speaker 3: So when I whistled at it, it started growling way

591
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,680
more intense and it was the weirdest sound I've ever

592
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,000
heard out of a canine. It was clearly a dot,

593
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,480
not a domesticated dog, way bigger than anything I've ever

594
00:34:04,519 --> 00:34:09,239
seen in New Jersey wildlife wise, and the thing I'm

595
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,119
looking at it.

596
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,559
Speaker 1: In the field, all I could see is.

597
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 3: This black, dark figure perched up, sitting on it's behind,

598
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,320
looking at me, and I whistled to it. And when

599
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:27,079
I whistled to it, it stops and then goes, oh,

600
00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:29,159
I don't know, I can't do it, but it did

601
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,800
this like growl that led into a bark that led

602
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,840
into a howl, and it was the scariest howl I've

603
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,280
ever heard in my life. And literally, at that moment

604
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,119
in time, I knew it wasn't a wolf, and I

605
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,239
knew it wasn't a coyote, and.

606
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,599
Speaker 1: Just this shrill of fear.

607
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: I can't describe how terrifying it is when you have

608
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,159
a moment like this with a creature that's that aware

609
00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,840
of you, Like this thing was watching me, was one

610
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,679
hundred percent aware of me, and completely escorted me out

611
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:09,639
of the forest as far as I'm concerned. And it's

612
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:12,480
hard to describe the feelings that you're feeling in this

613
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,840
during these kinds of moments, like I could years later,

614
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,559
I could nonchalantly talk about it. But this shook me

615
00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:23,960
up so bad that for the next few weeks, I

616
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,800
every time I got inside, I would lock the door

617
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,599
because I would have I'll get into the terrors that

618
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:32,599
I at night, terrors that I had after this. But

619
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,840
it's just the feeling that you get when you hear

620
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,800
something like that that close.

621
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:41,599
Speaker 1: It's undescribable.

622
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,039
Speaker 3: Like I've spent I've I've had close calls firefighting, I've

623
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:51,519
had close calls with mountain lions. Nothing was nothing was

624
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,480
as scary as this. It's like you have as a

625
00:35:56,599 --> 00:36:01,719
sixth sense built into you. It's like a primitive fear

626
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,760
that you get when you experience a creature like this.

627
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,639
Speaker 1: Like I could feel this energy and I could tell that.

628
00:36:11,599 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: It was something more intelligent than a wild animal.

629
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,679
Speaker 1: At this point, And basically that's the encounter.

630
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,679
Speaker 3: After after it growled and howled at me, I it

631
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:31,920
walked off into the fields. There were a couple other

632
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:35,239
nights that I heard the exact same call, but I

633
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,760
had I haven't heard it ever since, And eventually I

634
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,199
moved back to the Pacific Northwest. Right now, I'm actually

635
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,199
in the same room that I was in when I

636
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:50,800
experienced this but this situation really gave me some PTSD

637
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,400
for a couple of weeks afterwards. So I knew at

638
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,280
that point it wasn't a coyote, Like my intuition is

639
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,000
pretty good, and I knew that was not a wolf.

640
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:06,639
Speaker 1: There are no wolves in New Jersey. I knew it

641
00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:07,599
wasn't a black bear.

642
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 3: And you know, in my past, I have heard of

643
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,920
the dog man before because I I'm really into the

644
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:20,639
bigfoot subject I but I hadn't really ever really heard

645
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:22,400
of it, like I've heard of the dog Man, but

646
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,199
I didn't really think much of it, never thought there

647
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,440
could be one in New Jersey, and I never looked

648
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:33,119
into this subject at all. So that night when I

649
00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:37,480
went to bed, I had nightmares that there was a

650
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:45,360
bipedal bipedal wolf like canine. And in my dream, the

651
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,320
the face is so descriptive I could like I could

652
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,440
describe it, but.

653
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,519
Speaker 1: So basically like imagine a wolf like. So the face

654
00:37:55,559 --> 00:37:57,800
that I was seeing that was bipedal in my dream

655
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,159
was basically like a were wolf face with a skre

656
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,079
down right on the left side of his eye, and

657
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:03,880
it had hands.

658
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 3: And it was weird because that night I had a

659
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:13,199
dream that there was bipedal canine watching me through my window.

660
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,719
So in this photography studio, none of the windows have

661
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,519
shades or blinds, and you could basically just look in

662
00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:23,960
and see me sleeping. And that really made me uncomfortable.

663
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:30,119
And I woke up that night sweating thinking there was

664
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,760
a bipedal canine looking at me through the window.

665
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: And I got up and I looked, and there was

666
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:35,920
nothing there.

667
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,599
Speaker 3: And every single night for about two weeks afterwards, I

668
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:45,480
would have these insanely vivid dreams of something looking at

669
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,880
me through the window, something huge, ten feet tall.

670
00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: Looking at me through the window with fingers.

671
00:38:51,039 --> 00:38:54,199
Speaker 3: And it got it got bad enough to the point

672
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:58,639
where I was scared to go outside. So this unit

673
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:01,199
that I'm living in isn't attached my parents' house, and

674
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,639
I would have to go outside at night to go

675
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:06,119
to the bathroom and stuff. And it's got to the

676
00:39:06,119 --> 00:39:08,800
point where every single time I would be outside at night,

677
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,519
I was terrified.

678
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: Like I was like, all right, let me run in

679
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:15,000
and run back or let me run inside and run

680
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:17,639
back out as fast as I can. Every time I

681
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:20,280
came in the studio, I would lock the door, and

682
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,719
I just have these the night terrors weren't just the

683
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,639
creature looking in through my windows at me, it was

684
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,400
also it coming in, and I would have these dreams

685
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,719
of the dog man opening my door with its fingers

686
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:38,280
and coming in, and for some reason, I just would

687
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,760
have these horrible nightmares.

688
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,599
Speaker 3: So that was a very interesting I've never experienced nightmare

689
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,000
terrors before. I've never really had bad dreams, and they

690
00:39:49,039 --> 00:39:51,880
were just so vivid that it ended up making me

691
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,639
look into the dog man's subjects. So I didn't really

692
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,440
know exactly what I had seen, but in my head,

693
00:39:59,519 --> 00:40:02,320
like they're was nothing it could have been other than

694
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,239
a dog man. And I didn't even really believe in

695
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,280
the dog man topic that much, but I'm open minded

696
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,920
to the fact that there are other things that exist,

697
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,639
and I'm not closed minded to anything.

698
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,599
Speaker 1: And like, after that experience, I know it was a

699
00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:18,599
large canine.

700
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 3: So I started looking into the dog man subject and

701
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,679
that's where I found your podcast and I started listening

702
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,920
to it. In some of your earlier episodes, I'm living

703
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,360
in Somerset County and right next to me is Mercer

704
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,440
County and Hunterdon County, and I'm listening to your show

705
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,400
and I was like, wow, that sounds a lot like

706
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,880
what I experienced some of the encounters I was hearing,

707
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,800
and then I heard more encounters from Somerset County, from

708
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,039
the next street over from the street that I live on.

709
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:56,119
You had a guest on that I had a really

710
00:40:56,159 --> 00:41:01,679
intense encounter, multiple encounters. Then a couple of weeks, maybe

711
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,480
a couple months later, I heard another encounter on your

712
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:09,519
show in the same town, basically on the other side

713
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:12,639
of town, and that person had seen a dog man.

714
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: And there was one more individual that was.

715
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 3: Doing research and they said, Somerset County is a hot

716
00:41:18,039 --> 00:41:20,960
spot and that is dead smack in the middle of

717
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,760
where I am living. And I actually had no idea

718
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,360
that this was a hot spot, but according to some

719
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:32,440
sightings and experiences people have, this is a hot spot.

720
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: And it makes sense.

721
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:38,199
Speaker 3: You know, if you understand coyote or canine behavior, this

722
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,440
has everything that they would need to survive. We have

723
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,280
an over abundance of beer. You know, a predator could

724
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,760
live off of a roadkill on my street basically like

725
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,880
they wouldn't even really need to hunt. There's such an

726
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,639
imbalance with nature out here. We have apparently have no

727
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,000
mountain lions and no natural predators.

728
00:41:58,039 --> 00:42:01,039
Speaker 1: But that is definite not true.

729
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: So one of the areas that an individual on your

730
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:10,440
on your podcast was describing, I'm I know this area

731
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,639
pretty well, and I'm pretty sure I was able to

732
00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:15,800
locate the area that he described. He didn't say the name,

733
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:18,679
but he just described where it was around me, and

734
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,719
I am euston mountain bike there because the area I'm

735
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,199
not going to say the name because he didn't want

736
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,280
to disclose the area that it was in, but he

737
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,840
you know, he said it was in New Jersey and

738
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,360
it was in close to this area. So I have

739
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,480
a feeling I knew where he was talking about. And

740
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:37,400
I was mountain biking in this area where one of

741
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,760
the individuals said he had a dog man encounter. And

742
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:46,679
in this park, it's all flat farmland, but they're deer everywhere.

743
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,880
And in this park like there are bones everywhere scattered,

744
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,639
Like I remember just looking and finding full grown deer skeletons,

745
00:42:57,039 --> 00:43:00,880
deer bones ripped apart, and literally throughout this whole entire

746
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:05,480
like six Mile Park, there are just skeletons and deer

747
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:09,840
bones everywhere. And it's like for someone who's a tracker

748
00:43:10,119 --> 00:43:14,840
and studies wildlife biology, it shows there's presence of a predator,

749
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,360
like there are apex predators that are living there. You know,

750
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:21,960
coyotes can take down deer, but they typically will hunt

751
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,119
young deer. But these were full on, full grown deer

752
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,159
bones that I'm finding scattered around this whole park. I

753
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,119
even found cowbones and there aren't really any cattle in

754
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:37,920
that area, So like that's just kind of really strange

755
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,480
and throws up some red flags for me. It's funny

756
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:44,840
because you know, New Jersey's the most densely populated staper

757
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,159
kapita and you just don't think that there would be

758
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:50,599
anything lurking around out here, so it's really easy to

759
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,440
let your guard down. But you know that is not

760
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,599
the case. And I've learned from listening to your show

761
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,320
dog Man there they're everywhere, like they can. They can

762
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,519
live in any habitat that you would see a fox.

763
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:11,360
So you know, knowing that now, I'm always keeping my

764
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,440
guard up when I'm outside, you know, I'm I'm more

765
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,960
aware if I'm night hiking, and yeah, these things are

766
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:24,800
around and they're closer than you would think. But yeah,

767
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,239
that's my experience with the dog Man here in New Jersey,

768
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:35,840
and that's pretty much it for that experience, so it

769
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,239
was really terrifying. But yeah, now that I'm back in

770
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,079
New Jersey living at my parents' house, I am interested.

771
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:48,400
I'm and it's interesting too. Like I'm interested, I want

772
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,599
to have another encounter. I really do want to get better,

773
00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:55,079
a better sighting on this creature. Though it was such

774
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:58,119
a terrifying encounter. Since I've been back, I haven't had

775
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:01,639
any of those feelings an urgency to lock the door.

776
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,679
I haven't had any feelings that anything watching me through

777
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:05,800
the window, and I haven't.

778
00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: Heard any noises other than coyotes. I've heard some coyotes.

779
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, so but I'm back here in this area

780
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,800
that is apparently hot spot, and I'm definitely going to

781
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,519
be keeping my eyes out for tracks and any kind

782
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:22,559
of evidence I can find. But with that said, I

783
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:25,480
don't I'm not trying to prove the existence of any

784
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,719
of these elusive creatures. I respect them, I respect their space,

785
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:34,480
and if they want to live a life of secrecy,

786
00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:36,960
I want them to be able to do that. So

787
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,039
it's not my mission to prove that any of these

788
00:45:39,039 --> 00:45:43,400
creatures are real or exist. But I know that they're

789
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:49,400
out there, and yeah, that's basically it for my dog

790
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,079
man encounter.

791
00:45:51,159 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: Wow, Riley, that was a rough one. I'm glad that

792
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,000
you're over it now to the point where you're interested

793
00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:59,679
in actually having another encounter that tells me everything I

794
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,800
need to. No, that's definitely a sign of coming to

795
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,000
terms with that encounter you had. But I just hate

796
00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:08,239
the fact you had to go through that first experience.

797
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:09,400
How traumatic.

798
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, me.

799
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:15,039
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not mad at the fact that I

800
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:17,119
had to go through the experience. At the time, it

801
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:20,920
was terrifying, but you know it and it was just

802
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,559
a lot to process in that moment.

803
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:25,599
Speaker 1: You know, like when you're out in the forest by yourself,

804
00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:28,239
with no form of protection, no flashlight, and you hear

805
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,639
something gral at you, it leaves you a feeling that

806
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,679
it's hard to describe, but I could tell you it's

807
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,360
a feeling of terror. It's not a fun feeling.

808
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: And if you when you're in the wild, you know

809
00:46:44,079 --> 00:46:46,119
animals will go out of their way.

810
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,039
Speaker 1: To avoid humans.

811
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:49,599
Speaker 3: So if you have if you're camping and you're making

812
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:51,719
a lot of noise and something coming into your camp,

813
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,679
that's unusual animal behavior. If you're getting stoked from an

814
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,320
animal from quite a far distance, that's on usual animal behavior.

815
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,760
I mean, mountain lions will stock you, but they are

816
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,840
so stealth that typically you won't even see them until

817
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:10,639
they're already till it's too late. So if an animal

818
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,159
is stalking you and you're aware of it and you

819
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,280
know that it's doing that, that's not normal animal behavior.

820
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,840
So yeah, it took me a while to be able

821
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,159
to process it, but your show really helps. Let me

822
00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:25,880
tell you what, you know, hearing so many different encounters

823
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,800
and stuff like that, mine was really not that bad

824
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:35,760
compared to some other people's experiences. But now after the fact,

825
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,440
you know, I'm not so I'm more careful. I'm more

826
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,039
aware when I'm walking around at night for sure. For example,

827
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:47,400
literally last month, for my birthday, I was camping in

828
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,159
the Gifford Pincho National Forest in Washington State, which was

829
00:47:51,199 --> 00:47:58,320
an awesome experience, and that is some that's some expansive habitat.

830
00:47:59,159 --> 00:48:00,599
So I was camping out there and I was doing

831
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:04,320
a bunch of mushroom hunting, and I didn't have any

832
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:07,599
negative feelings from the forest out there. I didn't feel

833
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:11,280
like I was being watched at all. But when it

834
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,199
got dark, you know, I was definitely staying close to

835
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,519
my campsite. Definitely not walking through the forest alone. I mean,

836
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,920
it's always good to have a partner when you're walking

837
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,920
through the forest. People run into problems all the time.

838
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,559
Even here in New Jersey, in the Saroland Park across

839
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,440
the street from where I live, people get lost all

840
00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:36,039
the time. You know, a couple times a year there,

841
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,800
search and rescue has to go up there and locate people.

842
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,400
No one's ever gone missing out there, but people get

843
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,360
lost often. But I mean in the Gifford Pincher National Forest,

844
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,280
people go missing. I think there's over over fifty people

845
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,320
that have been missing out of that National Forest. And

846
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,679
even here in New Jersey we have the Pine Barrens.

847
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,840
The Pine Barrens is a million as. I think it's

848
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,960
the biggest preserve or the biggest green natural space on

849
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,239
the Eastern Seaboard, which is kind of a lot of

850
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,039
people don't know that New Jersey has.

851
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,079
Speaker 1: That kind of forest.

852
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,599
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's uh, it's definitely there's things out there,

853
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:18,719
and it's when you're in the forest. It's really good

854
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,840
to be aware when I go out into the forest. Now,

855
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,599
I try to like set my intentions. I try to

856
00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:27,280
have you know, I try to stay calm and collected.

857
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,239
I try to feel peaceful. I try to feel loving

858
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,039
towards I put loving energy out into the forest. I

859
00:49:33,079 --> 00:49:35,840
give I set my intentions before I go in, you know,

860
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:37,039
I introduce myself.

861
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 1: I do like I give a little prayer.

862
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 3: I feel like that always helps, and if it doesn't

863
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,400
help the beings in the forest, at least it helps

864
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:52,920
me to calm, calm myself down, be more collected. I

865
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,239
feel like when you're in the forest, if you have

866
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,280
a if you can keep your wits to you, even

867
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,800
if you have a scary experience like that, you're gonna

868
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:07,800
be more likely to make rational decisions in a in

869
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,559
a dangerous situation. For example, if I see a bear

870
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:15,400
and it's with its cubs and I freak out in fear,

871
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,559
I'm not gonna be able to think rationally, and I

872
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:20,360
might run and put myself into.

873
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:21,199
Speaker 1: A dangerous situation.

874
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 3: But if I stay calm and collected, first of all,

875
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,079
animals pick up on your energy. So your energy, if

876
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:31,559
it's common collected, it's not gonna animals will sense that,

877
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,840
and you're gonna be able to think more rationally. So

878
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:37,719
staying common collected is super important. And I feel like

879
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,199
in that situation where I was out in the forests

880
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,039
with a broken heart. I was putting off a lot

881
00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:47,079
of really intense energy and I'm sure whatever was out there.

882
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 1: Was picking up on that.

883
00:50:49,039 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I'm glad the experience happened because I

884
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:57,000
was able to find your podcast, and it's just a

885
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,480
it's now that I listened to. I've listen into every

886
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:03,480
episode and I've really looked into this subject and done

887
00:51:03,559 --> 00:51:04,119
some research.

888
00:51:04,159 --> 00:51:05,599
Speaker 1: I've learned so much.

889
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 3: Not that I know what this creature is or what

890
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,239
its intentions are or what its abilities are. I do

891
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:15,360
know what's out there, and I I've learned a lot

892
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,360
now that I've doven into this subject matter, and it's

893
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,320
really fascinating and really fun to research.

894
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a it's it's a really unsettling thinking.

895
00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 3: That there is an apex predator out there that is

896
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,159
so strong, because you know, for so long I was

897
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:39,039
under the assumption that humans were the top predator and

898
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:42,519
the top apex predator out there. But you know, having

899
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,599
these experiences, now I know when I go out into

900
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:50,199
the forest, I'm not top predator, so I I that's

901
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:56,119
really humbled me. But yeah, that was on my experience Vick.

902
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,519
Also wait one more thing. Also after the fact, I

903
00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:03,320
did tell my parents about this experience, and they thought

904
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:07,440
I was They laughed at me, but they did see

905
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,360
some interesting things after the fact. So a week or

906
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,280
two later, you know, my parents, I told them about

907
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,920
the experience and I said, I thought it was like

908
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,519
a dog man a weare a wolf. And my parents

909
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:23,679
completely laughed at me. But with that said, a couple

910
00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:26,840
of weeks later, they were I think they were going

911
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,320
out to like do something in the yard. They're they're

912
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,559
in the yard and they saw all these two animals

913
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,400
weigh in the back of the yard, and they thought

914
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880
they were a deer, but like something was off. They

915
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,639
didn't look like deer, and they like were looking more

916
00:52:41,679 --> 00:52:45,880
closely and realized that they were actually two canines. And

917
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,239
they realized that it wasn't deer at first because they

918
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,079
just they were all off from being deer. But they're

919
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,599
like as high as deer are off the ground on

920
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,599
all fours. But they they said their fur was way

921
00:52:57,639 --> 00:52:59,960
too dark to be a deer. And as soon as

922
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:04,039
like my parents saw them, they the two canines made

923
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:05,679
eye contact with them and as soon.

924
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:08,679
Speaker 1: As they like looked and registered each other. The canines

925
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:12,159
ran away, and my parents said they moved faster than

926
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:14,880
any canine that they've ever seen, and like, this is

927
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:15,639
New Jersey.

928
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:20,679
Speaker 3: What kind of large canine it looks like looks like

929
00:53:20,679 --> 00:53:22,920
it could be a deer from across the field.

930
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,519
Speaker 1: What kind of canine is that big?

931
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 3: And my parents they called me and they're like, Wiley,

932
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:31,039
we just saw two dog man And I was like really,

933
00:53:31,199 --> 00:53:34,440
and they described what they saw and I was like, yeah,

934
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,440
I think you actually did see two dog men. And

935
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,039
then they're like, no, it couldn't have been. I don't

936
00:53:40,079 --> 00:53:42,360
know what it was. They were just really big dogs.

937
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. And they were just like in denial

938
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:44,679
about it.

939
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 3: And another week later my dad was, oh, so sorry

940
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,360
that last experience. They were in the back of the yard.

941
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,360
The next time, my dad was walking and he saw

942
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,119
the same two canine creatures walking on them perimeter of

943
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:00,840
the field, and he said they were two giant canine.

944
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,639
At first he thought they were a deer, and then

945
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:05,039
when he like looked closer, he realized that they weren't.

946
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:10,119
They were giant, big canines. And he said they acted

947
00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:11,920
the same way as soon as he saw them, and

948
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,159
they registered that he was looking at them. They bolted,

949
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,519
and he said they it looked like a flash of

950
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:20,400
lightning when they ran away, and both my parents described

951
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,039
them running through the forest faster than anything they've ever

952
00:54:23,079 --> 00:54:28,000
seen moved through the forest. And after that, we started

953
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:32,119
finding weird tracks right in front of, like so the

954
00:54:32,159 --> 00:54:36,000
studio that I'm living in, right outside the door I

955
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:38,440
was working in as arborous. It was winter and there's

956
00:54:38,519 --> 00:54:41,239
snow on the ground, and right outside the door that

957
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,800
I was having nightmares and locking because I was afraid

958
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,119
something was going to open it at night. My mom

959
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:52,800
found a huge canine track and this track was probably

960
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,559
the size of my hand are bigger, and my mom

961
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,800
just my mom found it instead. It shocked her because

962
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,000
she's ever seen that track before, or any footprint that's

963
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:05,639
looked like that ever in her life, and she knows

964
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:07,599
I'm into tracking, and she took a picture of it

965
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:09,559
and sent it to me and said, Wiley, what on

966
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,039
earth is this?

967
00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: It's huge?

968
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 3: And I was able to come back and see it

969
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,599
and it was it was huge, and it was right

970
00:55:18,639 --> 00:55:22,079
in front of my door. And then there was another

971
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:24,599
time where I was hiking and I found more canine

972
00:55:24,639 --> 00:55:28,920
tracks that were bigger, as bigger, bigger than my hands.

973
00:55:29,199 --> 00:55:32,280
And uh, you know, the biggest canine tracks that you'll

974
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,280
typically see in the wild are either wolf or you know,

975
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,719
some large domesticated, domesticated dog species. And that's one thing

976
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:42,159
that I've learned through tracking, is how to identify the

977
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:44,280
difference between domesticated dog, a.

978
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,199
Speaker 1: Wolf, a coyote, a fox.

979
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,599
Speaker 3: I could even tell the difference between all these animal

980
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,920
scats and this giant canine track was it was definitely canine,

981
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,159
but I could not tell you what kind of canine

982
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,840
it was. But whatever it was, it is hue and

983
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,480
it's wandering around uh New Jersey.

984
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 2: Huh. I wonder what that could be me too?

985
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:09,840
Speaker 1: Dog man?

986
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say so. Unfortunately, after your parents had their

987
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,480
own encounters, do they become addicted to the topic of

988
00:56:18,559 --> 00:56:22,320
dog men or did it just roll off like water

989
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:23,480
off of a duck's back.

990
00:56:24,159 --> 00:56:27,400
Speaker 1: It rolls off water like a duck's back. They are.

991
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,280
Speaker 3: Very they're they're I'm not saying that boomers are closed minded,

992
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,760
but they you know, my dad's a Jersey boy, he's

993
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,079
like a city guy, and my mom's a California girl.

994
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,400
She grew up in the Bay Area and Uh, they

995
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:45,239
just aren't like. My mom's kind of outdoorsy, but not

996
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:45,840
not like me.

997
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:46,599
Speaker 1: And my dad's.

998
00:56:46,639 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 3: He's a city boys. He's a gardener. My dad likes

999
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:51,719
to garden, but he does not go hiking or camping

1000
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,719
or backpacking. He likes to think he likes to fish,

1001
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:55,599
but he doesn't even.

1002
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:56,199
Speaker 1: Go fishing ever.

1003
00:56:57,039 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: I grew up like not really doing anything other than

1004
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:01,400
hiking with my mom as a kid.

1005
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,159
Speaker 1: My dad sort of was always busy working or gardening.

1006
00:57:05,519 --> 00:57:08,760
But yeah, no, they they saw what they saw, and

1007
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:11,639
they described as it being something that they've never seen

1008
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:14,519
before and it being really large. And I told them

1009
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:16,840
what I believed, and they just they.

1010
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 3: Don't want to believe that there's animals out there that

1011
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,599
haven't been recognized by science, so they kind of laugh

1012
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:27,480
at my suggestion of what it probably was.

1013
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:30,039
Speaker 1: And no, they're not into the dog man topic.

1014
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:33,719
Speaker 3: But they're happy that I'm passionate about this subject, so

1015
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,880
they're not, you know, they just laugh at me about

1016
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:38,599
it and make fun of me. That's why it's hard

1017
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:40,480
for me to like, you know, talk about these kinds

1018
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,440
of things. You know, But with my background in wildlife biology,

1019
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,800
I have a really good sense of what kind of

1020
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,599
creatures exist, and my intuition tells me that this was

1021
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,280
nothing that should be out here and nothing that's recorded

1022
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:00,880
by science. It was really intimidating and it clearly was

1023
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,920
doing its best to scare me. But yeah, so my

1024
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,199
parents don't really believe in bigfoot or cryptids or anything

1025
00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:12,079
out of the usual. They're not into aliens or anything.

1026
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:15,840
So they're they're, you know, black and white type people.

1027
00:58:16,519 --> 00:58:19,119
They're awesome though. My parents are really really cool and

1028
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:24,840
totally encouraged me to do whatever I've wanted throughout my

1029
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,320
whole life. They like to poke a little fun at me,

1030
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:29,679
but it's all in, it's all lighthearted.

1031
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, but it's.

1032
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:38,239
Speaker 3: Interesting because like they it's like they they know something's

1033
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,599
out there because they saw something, and they're like.

1034
00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: All right, Wiley just talked about seeing the dog man.

1035
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 3: Then we see these weird canines like it's so coincidental,

1036
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,280
it's just too weird. And then my mom's noticing these

1037
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:54,039
big canine tracks. It's like almost they want to believe,

1038
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:56,440
but they just they can't.

1039
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,079
Speaker 1: They can't. What what can you do? You know? And

1040
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:01,039
there's a lot of people like that.

1041
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 3: I was like that I really had a hard time

1042
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,480
accepting that there could be a dog man out there

1043
00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:09,760
until I had this experience. So you know a lot

1044
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,960
of people got to see it to believe it, and

1045
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,000
that's okay. You know, everyone has their own truth.

1046
00:59:16,119 --> 00:59:19,639
Speaker 2: What's pretty rich is they saw dog men, but they

1047
00:59:19,679 --> 00:59:22,880
still don't believe the world is a lot more comfortable

1048
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:25,119
of a place, though, when you don't believe that things

1049
00:59:25,159 --> 00:59:28,039
like this are out there, but when you actually see

1050
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:30,920
them the way they did, that's kind of hard to

1051
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,800
figure out. It's just a shame. It's got to be

1052
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:34,280
that way.

1053
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:36,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I know.

1054
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:43,119
Speaker 3: I just did a road trip across the country and

1055
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:47,840
I met my dad in Minnesota and we were driving

1056
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,159
some through some really rural areas in Michigan actually has

1057
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:53,199
a really large uh.

1058
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,039
Speaker 1: Bigfoot. I don't know. Bigfoot seems to be like it

1059
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:01,119
must be out there because they were of bigfoot signs

1060
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:05,800
and statues and things like that. But I was driving

1061
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:06,679
with my dad and I was just.

1062
01:00:06,639 --> 01:00:09,199
Speaker 3: Hoping something would cross in front of the road so

1063
01:00:09,239 --> 01:00:12,559
he could believe me. And I know that like these,

1064
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,039
there are cryptids out there. But of course, you know,

1065
01:00:15,079 --> 01:00:17,280
when you want something, want to see something, you're less

1066
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:18,840
likely to see it in.

1067
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,719
Speaker 1: My opinion, But yeah, they've seen them and they're in denial.

1068
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:26,119
Speaker 3: I feel like you really have to see one do

1069
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,320
something unusual, like maybe if they saw them stand up

1070
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,599
on two feet, they would be more likely to believe me.

1071
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,840
But they saw them on all fours. But you know,

1072
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,360
there's just no canines that are that tall in all

1073
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,599
fours that I'm aware of.

1074
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:43,599
Speaker 1: No, there aren't.

1075
01:00:44,239 --> 01:00:46,559
Speaker 2: And like I said, it's just more convenient to not

1076
01:00:46,639 --> 01:00:49,840
believe that they saw what they actually did see. I

1077
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,840
understand why they're taking that stance on this, but for

1078
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,679
someone like you who had such a traumatic experience, it's

1079
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:58,199
got to be so frustrating.

1080
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,039
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, yes, yes it is.

1081
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:06,199
Speaker 3: It really is, especially with this subject in particular, because.

1082
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,159
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've.

1083
01:01:09,719 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: Never met anyone else that's really had an encounter in person,

1084
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:17,280
so it's I feel a little isolated in this, uh,

1085
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,079
with this experience and any other experience I've had for

1086
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:23,679
that matter. But yeah, it's really Uh, it's really a

1087
01:01:23,719 --> 01:01:26,039
tough subject to talk about, so I pretty much just

1088
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:28,800
keep it to myself. But with that said, I really

1089
01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:33,480
enjoy being able to have this topic to research and enjoy,

1090
01:01:33,679 --> 01:01:34,280
you know, for.

1091
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: Example, I really enjoy your podcast.

1092
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,599
Speaker 3: Having an experience like this makes it really interesting to

1093
01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:42,119
hear other people's experiences and stuff.

1094
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: You could really learn a lot from just listening to

1095
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:48,519
people's details about these animals behavior. So whenever I'm listening

1096
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:50,039
to your episodes, I just try to pick up as

1097
01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:50,760
much as I can.

1098
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you know about the show, and I'm

1099
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:56,639
glad you like it so much. And you said just

1100
01:01:56,679 --> 01:01:59,199
a moment ago that you feel kind of isolated. If

1101
01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:01,519
you'd like, I could always put you into contact with

1102
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:05,239
other Dogmen eyewitnesses. Just say the word in yeah, I'll

1103
01:02:05,239 --> 01:02:05,960
make that happen.

1104
01:02:06,719 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: Oh, that would be excellent. That would be really excellent.

1105
01:02:10,519 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 3: I would really be interested in getting in contact with

1106
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,280
some of the individuals that were in the same county

1107
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,480
that were on your show. So if any of those,

1108
01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:23,559
if anyone from New Jersey has had any experiences with

1109
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:25,239
the dog Man and would like to talk about it,

1110
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:26,400
please reach out to me.

1111
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:30,199
Speaker 1: I'm I would love to pick your brain. Feel free

1112
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:33,079
to reach out to me. Vic if you wouldn't mind

1113
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,280
posting my Facebook on link under the episode of today,

1114
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:37,320
that would be awesome.

1115
01:02:38,119 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: Count on it. You know, I'll definitely do that, glad

1116
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,760
to do it? Well, Wildy, I've got a lot of

1117
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,679
questions for you, but we're already an hour in. So

1118
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:49,480
with that in mind, would you be willing to come

1119
01:02:49,519 --> 01:02:51,440
back for a part too, to do a Q and A.

1120
01:02:52,519 --> 01:02:56,039
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I'd more than that. Happy too. That sounds great?

1121
01:02:56,639 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 2: Oh good, Well, yeah that's the case, then that's what

1122
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,039
we'll do. But having said that, I can't thank you

1123
01:03:04,119 --> 01:03:06,760
enough for coming on to share that experience with us

1124
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,079
and to tell us all about these other things that

1125
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:12,199
you've done. But yeah, like I said, I'll get back

1126
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:13,440
with you to schedule that Q.

1127
01:03:13,599 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: And A in.

1128
01:03:14,519 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll just hear that sometime next week.

1129
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,599
Speaker 3: Then awesome, VIC sounds good. I'm looking forward to it.

1130
01:03:20,639 --> 01:03:22,039
I'll be in touch. Thanks.

1131
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 2: Oh no, you know you're welcome and I'm looking forward

1132
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,159
to it too. Thanks against mature your time and have

1133
01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:42,119
a great night.