Speaker 1: What is up a fellow sick as I am Dan
Valley coming at you with a second time Capitol podcast.
I'm posting our twenty twenty three off season grades for
every team in the East. We already posted the West
and we went back into our regrades for the West.
The regrades for the West will be coming later this week.
So it's all one spot. If you want to go back,
look through and see what Grant and I look through it,
Listen to it, see what Grant and I said to
kind of prep you for that podcast. That's why this
is up. And also you deserve some bonus content just
for audio, because there's a YouTube exclusive that went up
on Tuesday that I would encourage everybody to go check out.
He had a lot of work kind of editing it together,
but Grant and I had a lot of fun doing it.
So go check that out. But also enjoy what past
Grant and Dan said. So that present day slash Future
and Grants we have not recorded them. We'll have to
probably walk back some things. There's at least one team
that we ended up missing on completely. So hope you
enjoy this. Let's get to it. Do you want to
you want to start us off with the Southeast Atlanta Hawks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just the basics here, in no particular order.
Drafted Kobe Buffkin at fifteen, traded John Collins finally mercifully
to the Jazz for for Rudy Gay in a future second, which, okay,
we'll talk about that some more.
Speaker 1: Trade exception they're not going to use. Yeah, I mentioned that.
Speaker 2: This is why, this is why we need you to
chime in, because I did not put the trade exception
on my some To be fair, I think it's immaterial
because they're not they're not going to use the twenty
three million dollars traded player.
Speaker 3: In some cases that would be material. That's a big
you know, that's that's not a team.
Speaker 1: Not for not for the Kings, of we're going to
pay the tax, but not really right, We're going to
pay the tax, but not really.
Speaker 2: It's being a paying signed to John Tay Murray to
an extension four years. The range is like I think
I'm looking at it as like one hundred and fourteen million,
but it can a little higher.
Speaker 3: There's a player option on the last year there they had.
Speaker 2: The Hawks had a complicated multi team trade where they
got a bunch of guys, ty Ty Washington, who's mang Garuba?
Ultimately they ended up with Patty Mills. Basically is what
you need to know from all that, and unless like
that's that's me, Wes Matthews. They signed for the minimum.
Anything I missed there that you would you know, label
as noteworthy. You kind of directed us towards some of
the like broader issues that we should probably discuss about
the Hawks, like what's the plan, how how willing are
they to spend? And like where do they where do
they think there? They are in the East, and did
they do enough to you know, get there.
Speaker 1: We know they botched the John Collins situation, and this
was all done in service of, for the most part,
getting out. Even if you think John Collins' deals in
net negative, which is fair to believe at this point,
as much as we have conviction that he is still
a good basketball player, this was all done in service
of just ducking the tax and that always rubs me
the wrong way. Now are they good enough to pay
the tax? I don't know. I do think they hit
a home run with the de Jonte Murray extension. However,
because of that extension, you're now sort of rolling these
same problems in the next offseason where it's all right
with Trey and Murray making a little bit more and
we have Bagdanovitch on the books, and we have Clint Capella,
and there's gonna be DeAndre Hunter too, and what's gonna
happen with some of these guys who are extension ledgeable
that will be thinking about their next deals. This feels
like a team that's going to be straddling the luxury
tax line, trying to play that game a little too long.
And it feels like I look at this roster and
believe so all they've kind of done is kicked the
can and next summer will be talking about, oh did
they dun't Clint Capella because like they have on Yaka
Kungu coming up. I that all aside. I'm not the
whole John they they botched the John Collins situation. I
don't if you want to look at the the TPE
as like this massive win for them to if they
want to make an acquisition at the beginning of next summer.
Maybe not. It probably won't be this season. Sure, I
don't think that they are any better than they were
at the star art of this offseting you really have
to believe that Kobe Buffkin is gonna come in and
be great, and I do like his abilities to finish
her at the rim. Where does he fit in to
this guard rotation? Just so you have Trey Younga, de
Jonte Murray and Ed Bardonovich. So I was thoroughly unimpressed
with their offseason. I don't know what moves they left
on the table, but for them to identify that their
biggest goal was to not get better but to upkeep
their books. If I'm a fan, it's just really disappointed
because they didn't even chase upgrades. And then the final
thing I'll say is the same the maybe saving grace
is they've been linked to Pascal Siakam, and so it
seems like they're willing to give up Adrian Griffin, AJ Griffin,
excuse me, and DeAndre Hunter and stuff to get Siakam.
Maybe that would change the context of the grade, although
it would be you know, they would be sacrificing a
lot of floor spacing there for a team that has
to work on its outside shot profile already.
Speaker 2: How much so the John Collins thing is interesting to
me because you know that was his market value turned
out to be at the time they decided to trade him,
or the time they decided, you know, they were able
to or had to not very good Like Rudy Gay
in a second, that's that's not great. How much do
you hold the fact that like Collins was even on
the team long enough for his value to decline to
that point against the Hawks for this offseason, because you
know what I mean, like, there was a time where
probably they could have traded him for a first or
more than that, and they didn't. And this will come
up in a lot of other teams too. It's you know,
did did the move they made with Collins? This you
know this past month, Like that's that's not a good move,
but it looks way worse because of what theoretically they
could have traded him for. I just don't know how
to kind of weigh that, So I wonder how you
think about it.
Speaker 1: I think because we're talking, at least to some extent
about a previous front office regime that decided to marginalize
him with some of the talent that was coming in,
I don't know how much hold it against them, but
this front office definitely had a strong voice during the
middle of the season, and so to not move John
Collins at the trade deadline and then settle for this
where it was a salary dumb like it was. It
was just a straight salary dumb for them. I feel
like that's a pretty big whiff yeah on there. And
they didn't have as much time, but they had the
same information that Travis Schlank was working with for all
these years, and they just the Hawks kept putting people
on top of him in the offensive pecking order, which
has never made sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to get to the grade for this team, Yeah,
where'd you end up with them? So the Hawks were
five hundred last year. They to me, they did not
get better. You said this, So it's a D plus
and I think it's probably it could be lower if
not for the Murray extension, which is, you know, that's
not a it's not an insignificant amount of money, but
I think it's it's less than I didn't think a
Murray extension was realistic.
Speaker 3: And we've talked about this a little bit.
Speaker 2: So to get it done and get it done at
a number that you know is at least reasonable and
might actually be like a objectively good deal like value wise,
that bumps them up from what could have been a
D or you know, a D minus even I think.
Speaker 1: To me, yeah, I went with a D plus as well.
I wanted to go lower. But I like, I think
the Buffkin pick was reasonable because I like him. I
just don't know his path to succeeding in Atlanta, which
sort of muddied it for me. But I really the
Jon thing Murray sension, like like you said, I did
not expect that to happen. I just assumed he was
going to hit the open market, yeah, which could bring
us to the Boston or not. The Charlotte Hornet staying
in the division. The big notes for them, drafted Brandon
Miller at number two, drafted Nick Smith junior at number
twenty seven. They Miles Bridges signed his qualifying offer. He'll
now be a restrict unrestricted free agent next summer, and
he has an implicit note trade clause his bird rights
will not transfer if they decide to trade him. They
did trade number thirty four, number thirty nine for number
thirty one James Notch, and they signed Lamellow. Despite the
reporting on this, it's a five year, two hundred and
five point nine million dollar extension. There are no player
options and there is language that can bring the total
value to thirty five percent of the cap, but it's
not worth thirty five percent of the cap right off
the bat, as was initially reported. The other notes on
them is sort of what's yet to be done? Kelly
ubridg Junior remains unsigned, and then PJ. Washington RFA he
remains unsigned. And then in so far as this matters,
I don't think it can, but it's a note. Michael
Jordan sold the team to Gabe Plotkin and Rick Snahl
for about three billion dollars, so he is no longer
the majority owner of the Charlotte Hornets. Any sort of
prevailing themes for you coming off of their offseason.
Speaker 3: I don't know about prevailing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of disappointing. I guess is the
word that comes to mind.
Speaker 3: I do think.
Speaker 2: I think the sale of the team is a you know,
ownership is such a big deal, and what we know
from the last you know, several years, is that Michael
Jordan as an owner has not presided over a team
that has won a lot of games or made a
lot of decisions that people around the league would say, oh,
you know, they really got like look what they did there.
There's not a lot of praise I don't think for
sort of any managerial aspect of the Hornets for as
long as he's been in charge. So I think that's
that's a real positive potentially, even though you don't have
any idea about the willingness of the new ownership rich
Nong gab plot can I forget if you mentioned them
to spend or like who they're going to bring in
to make decisions.
Speaker 3: That's all kind of up in the air.
Speaker 2: But when you know that the status quo is as
bad as it is, like almost any change feels like
an upgrade just by default. So that's about the only
and I think just tracking back up through some of
the real big points, I'm okay with the LaMelo extension.
I just don't know what else they were going to
do there. It seemed like that was just going to
be the going rate. And he's been an all star,
he hasn't had much around him, you know, supporting talent wise,
so it's hard to be sure this is a great deal.
And I think the other problem is he will probably
continue to not have a lot around him in terms
of supporting talent, so you might get one or two
years into this and still really not be sure that
that was worth it. But you're kind of stuck with that,
so no problem there. Drafting this is super risky and
stupid because rookies in the draft is who knows what's
gonna happen. We won't get answers forever. But I think
drafting Brandon Miller at two is a massive mistake. I
think Scoot Henderson was to pick there. I don't care
if LaMelo is on the team and you've committed to
him with this level.
Speaker 3: Of years and dollars, so I won't get to the
grade yet.
Speaker 2: But I'm disappointed in like the main move, which was
the draft, disappointed that this team does not project to
be like much. I guess they'll be better because Bridges
will be back and LaMelo maybe will be healthy, but
like not in a meaningful way, so it's kind of
left me pretty.
Speaker 3: Empty their offseason. The Miller thing, again is just that's
just there's people.
Speaker 2: The knock on him is there's not superstar upside, and
I think Henderson just like he's got superstar superstar upside,
like falling out of his pockets.
Speaker 3: Like it's just it's everywhere.
Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing to dig them for
at this point. I think the La Mellow extensions fine,
it's probably a win for the team that they didn't
get a player option in that or that LaMelo didn't
get a player option option. Excuse me. And you're gonna
be happy to pay him the full boat if he
qualifies for the thirty five percent backs, because that means
he's everything that you need him to be. I also,
you know the Miles Bridges stuff. He has ten games
left to serve on his suspension for pleading no contest
to fell Aty domestic violence charges. I don't know what
from the beat, just the strictly basketball perspective, as callous
as that sounds, to make that transition, I don't actually
know what else they were supposed to do with him.
How do you pay him real money after he wasn't
with your team in the previous year. And so I
don't know that I actually could fault them for not
having Miles Bridges on a long term deal. And now
they're he's going to be a UFA and they can't
really get value for him on the trade market. So
I didn't factor that in too much. And even the PJ.
Washington delay, I don't know what necessarily the weight is,
what's the number being tossed around. That's there's a level
of incompleteness to their offseason, But I think that the
meat and potatoes of their offseason was making the decision
to choose Brandon Miller over Scoot Henderson, who might be
a better fit. But when you're at that position of
the draft, when you're at this position in your development,
you don't go with the better depth chart fit. You
go with the player who has higher upside, and that's Scoot.
And so I was pretty harsh on them. I gave
them a D for my grade because I'm that big
of a believer that Scoot Henderson is going to be
this generational point guard for the Like if you told
me right now, I could have John Morand or Scoot Henderson, Like,
I'm gonna go with Scoot Henderson. That's how much of
a believer. And so there's very much eye of the
beholder stuff going on here, and I don't I want
to make it clear the free agency process any trades,
I don't think they missed out on anything. I don't
think they whipped on anything in the free agency market yet,
but the fact that the PJ. Washington stuff is still
floating around out there and they're playing either playing hardball
or what are they waiting for? Here? Are they exploring
side and trade scenarios that we haven't heard about. I
just it's a D because they're so unfinished. And I
think the big thing here for me is that grade
A lower is basically you should have went with Scoot.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot different to say other than
I originally had it as a D minus and then
when you said D and I switched it to a
D as I was thinking about the ownership thing, which
is a positive, and then I went back to D
minus because you said D just to be different from you.
So we're very much in the same range there. So
D minus for me, I would just.
Speaker 1: Go I will say this will be and we'll eventually
do our. It'll probably later, since I'm gonna try and
take some time off and a little bit. It'll be
fascinating to go back and look at how this team
does in our regrades next offseason.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very That's the thing that's the risk,
right is like maybe Brandon Miller is just really good
right away and Scoot struggles a little bit like this
is the thing. This is probably the well we've only
done two but for quite a while. This is gonna
be the grade that I'm gonna feel like least comfortable
about because it's based on like such an unknown, which
is the quality of a rookie drafted one spot after
another's it's like, we're not gonna it's it's risky, all right,
Miami Heat, that's our next team in this division. The
basics here, drafted Heimihawk as junior at number eighteen, treated
Victor Oldepot to the Thunder for a couple of future
seconds salary dump essentially lost Max Strus to the Caves
structured as a sign and trade for a future second lost.
Gave Vincent to the Lakers for was like three and
three for thirty three basically or three for thirty two.
So lost two starters there. Kevin Love is back two
years just under eight million with the player option. Got
Josh Richardson for the minimum and Thomas Bryant for the
minimum notably, and then we just don't know what's going
to happen with the Damian Lollward stuff. So this this
we've said a little bit of incompleteness for the Hornets,
but like, this entire thing is incomplete for the Heat
right now, because if they get Dame then everything changes.
Speaker 3: But that that's where they are now. Do I miss
anything there or anything.
Speaker 2: That you want to you want to hit on as
like a you know, just jump right into you know
what you think the big issues are for this offseason.
Speaker 1: You mentioned gave Vincent left for three years and thirty three, right.
I didn't hear that one, So yeah, yeah, I mean
this is it's it's a level of incomplete but as
of right now, so yes, there's an incomplete a TVD.
Let's the other Damian Lillard stuff goes here, And I
don't want to spoil the plot too much, but how
do you give this team anything more than a D
minus right now? Like I like Hobby Hawks a lot,
but they cut costs by looking at what they did
with that, and that's fine. Old Deep was probably not
gonna play the way that package was structured. Though, By
the way, it's just like, oh, they gave up twenty
nine and thirty second round picks. It's like, are you
paying an advanced fee on adjusting the protections on that
first round pick that's owed to Okac with the Damian Lillard,
Trey goes through just because the value that Okaysee got
for Damas Bertad's taking on his money is like, I
think it's worse than the value they got for taking
on not like a one guaranteed year of victor O
Ladipo to get those distant seconds. And so I just
you lost two players who were monster parts of your
playoff rotation. You can say that Duncan Robinson's offensive renaissance
during the postseason helps you offset Max Struce's departure. You're
not a team that was like an exceptional floors basing
team to begin with, even though you're shooting, did kind
of take up towards the end of the year. And
Max Strews is a better defender than Duncan Robinson. So
you've put strained on that part of your rotation. Now
you've also put strain on probably your offense and then
your defense by like, Okay, Gabe Vincent is gone, and
there's Kyle Lowry's there, he's getting older, Tyler hero is
gonna be healthy. You haven't alleviated. I would say the
burden on Jimmy Butler and bam Anebayo at all defensively,
let alone when we're looking at offensive creation. That's still
the fact that they have Tyler Hero That doesn't bug
me as much. And I think Kyle Lowry kind of
didn't turn it on, but like he wasn't this train
wreck for all of last season. The Josh richardson Neil
that was actually probably my favorite part of their offseason.
I can't believe they got for the minimum. I just
I look at this team. They were a playing team
to begin with. They had to strike lightning in a bottle,
and good for them. They clearly we joke about it,
but they are hashtag built different. When you get to
the postseason, that's all great. You still need to eat
innings in the regular season, and you weren't good enough
to win the title this year. That was very much
clear when you went up against the Nuggets. Again, it's
an incomplete but you bet a lot on the idea
that this player who is not yours yet is going
to be yours soon. And the money that they let
these guys leave for was money they could have paid,
and it was eminently reasonable from a team perspective, And
again I wanted to give them an F just because
you just made the finals and now there's like this
huge pullback. But I actually like Kamai hawk As and
I really think I don't know how much you can
wait to sit like Josh Richardsond at the minimum is
one of the best signings of the summer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. I did give him
an F, but it's F slash incomplete just because if
Damon Lillard is on this roster and it doesn't cost
you anybody that you really project to be a huge
rotation piece other than I guess Tyler Hero.
Speaker 3: Actually, I mean, I don't know how high.
Speaker 2: I don't know how about this as a thought exercise,
say they get Damian Lillard for the rumored package, which
is they get a bunch of picks together, they move
Hero for another pick, and then that's the package.
Speaker 3: You give up, Yovich, you give up who else is going?
Speaker 2: I can't even remember what the what the parameters are
like if if they get Damian Lillard in a package,
you know, for what is the basic idea of what
we think that trade will eventually look like?
Speaker 3: Where are we are?
Speaker 2: We?
Speaker 3: Are we at a B? Or are we at an A?
Speaker 2: Are we because the team is I mean, you've blet
if you so theoretically you add Lillard, you've lost Vincent
strus in Hero probably right, I mean definitely those you're
not getting the other two back in Hero seems to
have to go to a third team to get this done.
You're definitely better on the top end.
Speaker 3: But man like Josh Richardson agree great signing. Suddenly Josh
Richardson is like.
Speaker 2: Really important for the right does he I don't know
if he starts, but he's gonna play. He's in their
top eight for sure. And that's I don't know, that's
that's that's tough. I what I guess, what I'm saying
is if you get Dame, I'm not sure you'd get
an A for the offseason still, you know, because.
Speaker 1: Like you could have. I mean, in theory, there was
nothing stopping you from keeping these guys and then turning
around in trading for day. This was this was a
cost cutting maneuver. That's why they, for the most part,
I would imagine let those guys go. That's why you
paid to get rid of Victor Oladipo. Is that you
wanted the flexibility. What do they what do we have
about relative to the to the tax next season. I
should look at that, but like that was just a
severe cost cutting maneuver by their part. Maybe it all
works out because you have Dame, but they're so there
were they seven seven million into the tax. I think
it looks like a're by looking at the wrong season.
Speaker 2: I got a thirty four million over the cap team
salary of one seventy with the tax line at one
sixty five point two. So yeah, they're five five million
plus into the tax based on what I'm looking at.
Speaker 1: So they didn't want to pay a high tax spill
for this team, which is that's their prerogative. I just
that's a fair question. I didn't even think of that.
Is what happens if in when they do pull off
the Damian Miller trade. Maybe a lot of it goes
into are you not giving up as many picks or
swops as we're talking about, or are you keeping Hama Hawkes? Perhaps?
But yeah, I would say, based on the package that
we think it would take to get them, I think
you could elevate them to like a B plus. Maybe
you can't just give them a flat A for that though.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think they can get there.
Speaker 1: Uh, do we want to move on to the Orlando Magic.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: Cliff notes on them, they drafted Anthony Black at number six,
They drafted Jet Howard at number eleven. They traded number
thirty six Andre Jackson Junior to Milwaukee for cash and
a twenty thirty second rounder. They signed Joe Ingles to
a two year, twenty two million dollar contract that'll be
a team option on year two. And they re signed
Mo Wagner to a fully guaranteed two year, sixteen million
dollar contract. They also did as far as anybody cares,
they they wave bubul So it's a gut punch to
everyone except Phoenix Suns fans. What do you think coming
out of their off season?
Speaker 3: Grant again like, we've just been killing these teams. But
I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't love Anthony Black at six. I don't love
Jet Howard at eleven. I think this is a harder
one for me, though, because the counter I'm not giving
this team a good grade.
Speaker 3: I'll just say that the.
Speaker 2: Counter is like, what what should they have done? Or
like what opportunities were there that they didn't pursue? And
that's a harder question to answer. So I'll concede that
this is a little I don't know, maybe I'm asking
too much, but this was a team that had to me,
and we've harped on this forever, like pretty clear needs
you need shooting from some of your guards.
Speaker 3: Anthony Black does not do that. Jet Howard I think can.
Speaker 2: But I mean again, like he was the number eleven pick,
how much is he going to play? Almost certainly he's
going to be like a net negative contributor to winning.
And this is a team the magic I think that
we both believe, just based on the talent that's already
in place, should definitely be like in the playoff mix,
I think we both expect them to get better.
Speaker 3: Tell me if you disagree.
Speaker 2: So I just I was uninspired by almost everything they did.
You can talk yourself into Ingles being someone that makes
sense as like a pick and roll operator that will
make open threes. I'm not sure, you know, that's just
not the same thing as finding like where were they
on VanVleet. You know, maybe that just they just weren't
going to get there with the with the salary.
Speaker 1: But they don't need a point guard even though they
drafted one they needed.
Speaker 2: All they need is someone like six or five or
under that can make an open shot, that would be
that would be my my advice. So I guess I'll
I'll just say this is another D for me. I
just don't think a team that had every reason to
try to get better in very obvious areas, I just
don't think you can reward them for not doing that.
So if if Black, you know, streamlines a shot and
he's obviously super talented at like basically everything else, but
if he comes it comes along more quickly than I
expect or of Howard is just like a knockdown guy,
then maybe that changes. But as of now, the Magic,
just to me, did not get meaningfully better. And I think,
you know, they were one of the teams that had
the opportunity to do that because they did there was
you know, time there where they had cap space and
there were not a lot of teams with that, and
they had pretty clear needs and they didn't they didn't
use that space to fill them.
Speaker 1: Maybe I've gone soft. I went with a C here.
I actually really like Anthony Black, I hate his fit
in Orlando. But as I talked about with Charlotte in
the an attempt to be semi consistent is are the
Magic at the point where they should be drafting for
for fit. At that point, I mean, who is the pick.
I actually really liked Taylor Hendrix, maybe even more than
Anthony Black. You already have all these other forwards. Would
I've got with Taylor Hendricks. If I've then I would
have considered it. But I think he Black has the
higher upside as someone who profiles as this ball handler
and look shooting. You can get it later and you
can surround him with shooting. And you do have Markel
Foltz going into the final year of his deal. You
only know what the future is gonna hold. Cole Anthony
he I think he's extension eligible this summer. So I'm
open to the idea that maybe it works. And you
don't have a lot of wing sized players on this team,
like true wing sized players, Andony Black is one you
could mix and max some of those positions and what
he's gonna bring for you defensively to a team that
was basically they were like eleventh in points thought per
possession for most of last season. When you filter out
Garber's time, that's a big deal. I don't know how
much better the offense gets with Jet Howard right away,
I will say I would have went with Grady Dick.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask you that, like, why not
Grady Dick there? When your shooting needs are so pronounced.
Speaker 1: I consider going C minus D because I actually thought,
get the shooter that has some size there. I even
thought about, is this a team? And I don't know
if I'm kind of letting what we saw from summer
league color this from me? Is this a team that
should have if they wanted to go to guard route
like Caseon Wallace would have made a lot of sense here,
but he didn't have a great summer league performance, And
if you wanted someone with more size, I don't know
what they missed out on. So it's like it's based
purely off the draft. They did nothing. I don't think
to move their needle substantially, at least in the immediate term.
Long term, I'm open to this idea that, wow, Anthony
Black would be really good. They'll surround him Frauds and
Palla bag Caro with a bunch of shooting. Or is
it even a matter of those three players Wendell Carter Junior,
who's probably about a plus shooter at his position, throw
one more shooter out of the court. Withever, that lineup
is just going a hum. It's not gonna be false.
It's pay not gonna be Gary Harris in that instance.
So maybe it's Jalen Suggs who develops as a shooter.
They did not inspire me this offseason, but I don't
think they missed out on anything. And I like the
idea of look, Joe Ingles won't least face the floor.
He's probably overrated as a pick and roll player at
this point. He will turn the ball over a lot
in those situations. But it's a one year deal. And
even though I saw some people were just like nepotism
of Wagner, he got sixteen million guaranteed. He was really
useful for them for a lot of last season. I
think that's a tick overpaid. But if you want this
team to eventually make this wing, you need some of
these salaries that you can stack together. And if you
want to look at it through that vein, nothing they
did inspired me, and I'm so curious to see how
Anthony Black fits in right off the back. I just
don't think they did anything damning. If there was a
move where it was oh Fred van Vleet would have
gone to the Magic for X. Like I, this is
not the team that I would have said, give Fred
van Vleet the two year max because they didn't have
that CAS space available. They would have had to create it,
and so no one within the numbers that they had.
Of consequence, seems like they were going to go there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair. You're you're making me want to move
this up. I'm gonna move it up to a D plus.
You've sold me, so you're at a D plus some
marketings down. We're trying to hold ourselves accountable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this time next year.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: As a favor to you, since you're sick, I would
all do the Washington Wizards summary here because there's a
lot going on.
Speaker 3: If we're ready to move on here.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's also your turn to be fair.
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate it, I said, Dan, as a favor
to you, and we're gonna leave it as that. Not
that I forgot already what order we're going in. Okay,
busy offseason for the Wizards. I guess you'd start with
they fired Tommy Shepherd, so and they changed the top
decision makers. It's always tricky to gauge. This is a
little easier for me than judging like what an ownership
change means. But it's still kind of like what what
does this really suggest? Although the Wizards definitely started acting
very differently once they had a new person making decisions,
Michael Winger is that man. So Bradley Beal gone to
the Suns for four first round swaps, six seconds, Chris
Paul Andry Shammitt and some cash. Paul then flipped to
the Warriors for Jordan Poole, Patrick Baldwin junior, Ryan Rollins
and a like joke of a twenty thirty first round
pick that has the top twenty protections.
Speaker 1: Is that one of the worst first round picks to
be acquired in Like, what's I'm trying to remember what
was the last top twenty protected first round pick that
was traded?
Speaker 2: I I'm terrible at remembering this stuff, but it's there
can't have been many that were like less valuable.
Speaker 1: I put them in my trade articles all the time.
I'm like, let's just top twenty two protect this to
make it seem like it's a real I don't remember
the last one that was so if anyone remembers, get at.
Speaker 2: Us, because well, because this can't roll over because it's
so far in the future, so if it doesn't convey,
it turns into seconds or just goes away.
Speaker 1: So like the Hornets had that top eighteen protected one
at one point, but I think that kept rolling over
and the picks where by other protections were loosened a
little bit, So this is exceedingly worse.
Speaker 2: Also, a twenty seven second round pick, which is I
think probably objectively a more valuable asset somehow than a
top twenty for first burrender from twenty thirty also traded
Chris aaps Porzingis essentially got back Tias Jones, dini Ol Gallinari,
Mike Muscala, and then number thirty five pick. Then traded
Monte Morris to Detroit for a twenty twenty seven second rounder.
Love that on Detroit's side, We'll talk about that at
some point. Drafted Blall Coolabali sold number fifty seven to
the Warriors for two million dollars. That's a good piece
of business. Resign Kyle Kuzma to a four year deal
that I'm calling ninety million, just because it seems like
some of the escalators and other incentives can move it higher.
But it's it's at least going to be ninety. So
very busy offseason for the Wizards. Revamped the entire team,
changed directions, much overdue, but finally did it. I love
this offseason for them. Did I miss anything? Do you
feel differently?
Speaker 3: Is there?
Speaker 2: Does the Kuzma contract bother you? If that's the only
like negative thing you could really point to. I think,
in my opinion, I did we have the negative?
Speaker 1: Did we have the Monte Morris trade in there? They
did so much?
Speaker 3: Could really keep trying for a twenty twenty seven second
to the pit.
Speaker 1: I thought they sold a little low on him, and
I know they have some really nice sized traded player
exceptions floating around now. They created a nine point four
to one for Monte Morris, they created a twelve point
four million dollars one for Persingias. They got I think
like a five and a half million dollar one or
something out of Bradley Beal trade. I just thought Monte Morris,
I know Wizards fans didn't really like him like I
thought he would be worth more than just like this
second round pick. So I thought they sold a little low.
The Kuzma deal's fine. It's four for ninety with twelve
million dollars in incentives that could bring it up to
one oh two. He is not. Is Kyle Kuzma on
this team past the February trade deadline?
Speaker 2: No, And that's why it's kind of fine for me
because the number is totally tradeable and he's still had
a We talk all the time about asset preservation like
this is this to me?
Speaker 3: Is what that is?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: They can definitely move him. You get a first for Kuzma,
like at that number, I think pretty easily.
Speaker 1: So I loved even down to swinging on Balakola Bali, whereas, hey,
you're in the infancy of your rebo, go with the
he's raw on offense, but he showed some real flashes
in Summer League, and if he hits like he might
be your north star, he might be. I don't know
that you could have said that about Jarris Walker or
Taylor Hendrix was still on the board at that point.
So I applaud basically everything they did. And I know
some people were taken aback by how little they got
for Bradley Beal, sending him to a team that had
no first round picks to offer. That's on Tommy Sheppard
and ted Leonsis to be clear, who was ragging about
that no trade lost for Bradley Bual. That's what forced
their hand to make the decision to go this route.
There is real value in there, and I think some
of the stuff we could quibble over did they give
up too little for Monte? Like did they get too
little for Monte Morris? Okay? Even porzingis that last front
office held on to him for too long, like you
just weren't in the I don't know who was gonna
pay him this summer if he had opted out. It's like,
maybe they could have played hard ball a little bit
more there. But if you don't view his already a
programmed and there weren't better offers out there. But I
could say, I could you could wonder, Okay, well, why
didn't they kind of play a little bit more difficult there?
Like why was he just given up so readily for
such a low price point? I guess you could also say,
as someone who is not high on Jordan Poole, would
you have been better off just with Chris Paul's expiring contract?
You want the bite at the apple of Jordan Poole
for a fake first round pick, Although if the Warriors
can may that first round pick. Both teams. We'll be
happy because it means that the Warriors are still good
all the way out there and the Wizards get the
sextra first round pick. So I went with a B
plus for what they did, just because there were some
minor quibbles that I had, But this was a I
could even be talked into an A minus. This was
a cap slot fantastic season for the Wizards because of
what it just says about what they're doing, and that's
finally rebuilding, doing something other than angling for you know,
the seventh or eighth or ninth best record in the
Eastern Conference, and that's a that's a big deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did one thing I did neglect to
mention they heard Will Dawkins as general manager.
Speaker 3: So this is just like this is like.
Speaker 2: An okacuh minded front office just up and down, which
I think is pretty pretty clearly a good thing to
be in terms of how you're gonna run your team.
So this is an A minus for me, and that
is I I don't have any uh an equibble with
your point about like, yeah, that seems like a little
bit you know, light for a return from Monte Morris.
You know there were there were like moves they could
have made sooner, but again.
Speaker 3: That's not on this offseason. It's just like, well, yeah
I did.
Speaker 1: To be clear, that didn't factor to by No, it
was I would have just been like while at Monte
I don't care how many guards I have. Let Monte
Boris roll into.
Speaker 2: The season and see if someone else gets desperate, and
I think this will shock nobody. I think I think
it's worth it to take a crack at Pool, just
because even though that contract might be.
Speaker 1: Whatsoever over SGA forever.
Speaker 2: Right forever, he you know, he'll be better in Washington
than he was in Golden State.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty confident of that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the same thing as saying
he's a winning player all of a sudden, especially like.
Speaker 3: He's gonna cook this year, like he is going to.
Speaker 2: Have a lot of time on the ball and that'll
bring to the four all the good and bad of
the whole Jordan Poole experience. So it's an a minus
for me just because the macro stuff, like, oh my god,
finally we're like operating in a rational way.
Speaker 3: We're mimicking what smart teams have been doing.
Speaker 2: Forever and we're not just you know, obsessed with mediocrity
and really what's been like sub mediocrity and paying through
the nose for it. So it's an A minus because
I think they just got the big stuff right, and
like none of the trades they made were perfect, Like
you know, there's there's room to criticize all of them,
but they made the trades so that that that does
it for me for them gets them there. So I
got a whole bunch of like d's and terrible grades
and the Wizards come out with an A minus for
me in this division.
Speaker 1: Did you have any issues with the Kusma contractors because
you asked me about it before.
Speaker 3: No, I was just curious because it does.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the only Samely guy they brought back,
really and it wasn't cheap. But I think I'm not
the biggest Kuzma fan, but I think that's a totally
reasonable number for what he is and what his value
as a trade chip would be, which is how I
view him, because like he's very much of which one
of these things doesn't belong if you just line up
their roster, doesn't He's not going to be on this
team for very long. How about I a'll start We'll
start with Boston. That's the alphabet again, messing with the
alphabet as we do so well around here. Big moves
acquired Christaps Porzingis the twenty fifth pick and a Warriors
twenty twenty four first for this is complex, but ultimately
Marcus Smart Gallo Mike muscalat number thirty five in a
trade that involved the Wizards and Grizzlies. They kind of
packaged the Smart deal into that essentially lost Grant Williams
to the Mavericks. Ultimately structured it as a sign and
trade that got a couple of future firsts, and also
the Spurs were roped into this somehow. Maybe you can
speak to how that worked. I super summarize this so
I don't remember another big deal Aalen Brown got that max.
So the numbers are all over the place. It came out,
as you know, initially like three hundred million over five years.
I think there's some dispute about that because it all
depends on like how much the cap is going to rise,
because his deal depends on its percentage of the cap.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money. That's all you need to know.
Speaker 1: It's in the three hundred million dollars point three is
the number for now. Yeah, and it could get up
if the cap rises the way that people expected to rise,
even though it hasn't been projected. That's what it could
get up to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Freddi would who cared well that and that's going
to be true for several other deals. They're kind of tricky,
but it's a lot. They signed o shaper Set I
know you're a big fan, and Dolan o'banton to minimums.
Drafted Jordan Walsh at number thirty eight, and that's it
for the big moves and less I've forgotten something you
would like to hit on, and if not, what are
your overall thoughts on how Boston conducted business this offseason.
Speaker 1: So the only other thing I would note, and this
did factor to my grave because I thought it was smart,
is they added Sam Cassell and Charles Lee from the
Bucks to Joe Mizula's coaching staff. I think they did
well there. This team is so polarizing it's not even
funny because the more I think about it, the less
I like the Christops Porzingis deal for them, and I
know that they ended up getting two firsts for Marcus
mart and Porzingis, And I'm trying to understand how this
team gets better in this situation, because the way to
look at it is, Okay, Porzingis might give you an
extra layer of shot making from almost every level. Pretty much,
you're banking on him being healthy, which is something he
did in Washington, but not something he did in Dallas
or New York previously. And even if Porzingis is the
best version of himself on offense, you lost Marcus Mart's
playmaking and so now it's Peyton Pritchard and Jason Tatum
and Derek White and Malcolm Brogden and Jalen Brown. I
guess that's enough by committee to offset the deficit. Even
if you're getting the peak of christophs Portsis, have you
not made yourself less versatile on the defensive end just
because Porzingis does not have nearly as much switch Like
he's best suited as just a straight up rimp protector,
and there's some mobility there. I think he actually probably had,
you know, non beginning of his New York days in
general last year was like the most mobile I've seen
him look on the defensive end. I I just don't understand,
and that's my question to you is how does this
team get better off of this trade? Or is a
way to look at it as they didn't trust Marcus
Smart to age well and so they decided to try
and capitalize off their his value here and they did.
The only thing that I can't get around is I
think they believe in porzingis because they turned around and
gave him a two year was it sixty to seventy
million dollar extension? So it seems like it's more than
just about capitalizing on a player at Marcus Smart who
you didn't think was going to age so well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean to that point, Marcus Smart was
he aged last year? Like, he was markedly worse last
season than the year before. Obviously went defensive player of
the Year two years ago, he was not at that
level last season.
Speaker 3: I think this is a really.
Speaker 2: Hard team for me to evaluate because if we just
really zoom all the way out, this team's problems were
fairly pronounced right. The offense bogged down, they didn't have
enough good passers, they struggled in you know, tight playoff games,
and ultimately I think that's fair to say that it
may have cost them a championship or at least it,
you know, has cost them significant chances to advance in
the playoffs and maybe even win the whole thing. I
don't know how they improved that, right because now, like
they don't have any good passers on this team really,
and so the porzingis acquisite. Porzingis was really good last year,
like just full stop was a really good player. If
he can be that, then that's exciting. I don't He's
not someone that, like, oh, he really unsticks the offense.
I don't think unless they figure out different ways to
use him that make it so, you.
Speaker 3: Know, really good passers don't matter as much. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I'm trying to think thinking you know, positive
terms for him. The other thing I'm I'm concerned about
is that it seems like al Horford is still really
important and he's just way up there in age now
and has already you know, limited in terms of how
much he can play.
Speaker 3: Because I don't.
Speaker 2: Love the Porzingis Robert Williams tandem together. I think that's
complicated because one of the two of them is gonna
have to guard in the pick and roll probably, so
like that's where Horford is so helpful to let Williams
be the rover and that unlocks like the very best
version of Boston's defense. I think you got to change
that with Porzingis, you know, playing more.
Speaker 3: So I ultimately I'm positive on this overall.
Speaker 2: While while conceding all this stuff about like they didn't
really solve some of their problems, I just think Porzingis
is really good. I think they probably got off smart
at the right time. I'm okay with losing Grant Williams,
although like bringing him back for that number I would
have been okay with.
Speaker 3: But you can't. I mean, this team is going to
be so expensive just with the Brown and Tatum.
Speaker 1: Tatum's got an extensive but they almost could have used
him because of how it seems like they want to play.
Speaker 2: Maybe so yeah, I think I think Oshaber said is
one of the better minimum signings in the league.
Speaker 3: I think we like him a lot. So I ended
up with a bee here.
Speaker 2: While acknowledging that, like there's a really decent chance that
nothing Boston did fixes what we all knew was wrong,
it could work. It's still where this team is ridiculously talented.
They're competing for a championship. They added a guy who
played at an all star level last year. It's hard
to be too critical of it, But if you really
start picking around, it's hard to see how they sort
of tick the big boxes that needed to be ticked
if they want to sort of like get over the hump.
Speaker 1: I went with a C minus because pretty far you
got good value for smart in a vacuum. But I
think that you're worse now, or at least your floor
is lower, and I don't. I think a lot of
people have phrased it. They have a higher ceiling but
a lower floor. I just don't see the higher ceiling.
I don't. And maybe I'll understand the theory of this
team when they actually roll out on the court. I
think this is the team that I'm either going to
be very right on or very wrong on, with no
with no one between. I just I don't understand it.
And you mentioned this stuff about Horford. It does kind
of feel like they're betting on we're just gonna have
enough collective availability from r W three, Horford and Christopsportling
is to make this work, which is fine when you're
you know, you're not paying a boatload for all those guys.
It's like, you know, fifty five million dollars for all three,
which is not astronomical when you're looking at it. Zero
issues with the Jalen Brown extension. I don't know what
you thought was going to happen. Maybe they could have
held out and not signed him to the full Max.
I just think that the way it works right now,
that contract was going to be the contract. And so
I think we're going to approach a reckoning of oh,
can we sub top twenty guys ever actually be on
Supermax's We're just not there right now. And it's an
uncomfortable number. But jal a really good player, and to me,
he's more important to them than ever, especially defensively now
that Marcus Smart is gone. So I really it's the
Porzingis swing makes me uncomfortable, even though again you could
look at the value that they got, that's fine. I
just are you gonna then parlay that value into something else?
And you've already bet on the Porzingis move working out
by going with that two seventy extension, and I don't like,
don't I don't know about you, but like I know
the CAP's going up. I don't think christophs Porzingis at
thirty five million. Dollars a year is guaranteed to be
this this huge asset you could go through. If he
has a bad year or is injured, there's at least
a one year where that deal just looks bad before
becoming inspiring. It just felt they took a risk, which
I admire, that to me does not really address their
ceiling problems. I would say, maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: I think yeah, I think we agree, and I think
you put it right. It's like the floors lower for sure,
I think because if all the issues that plague them
are worse than like, man, you may you may not
even be in a position where you need to execute
on offense to win in Game six of the conference
finals because.
Speaker 3: You won't be there.
Speaker 2: But I guess I'm just more optimistic about the ceiling.
And if you're competing for a title, I guess I
care more about ceiling. But yeah, it's weird. I have
him as a Bee and I'll stay there. But I
completely understand the justification per c minus. Like, I get it, man,
I mean, if we're not doing this, But like, the
Celtics are going to be one of the most interesting
teams to watch in the league this season because of
the potential variance.
Speaker 3: On it, like how this whole thing could look.
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the Brooklyn Nets. They drafted Noah
Clowney at number twenty one. They drafted Drek Whitehead at
number twenty two. They saw in Cam Johnson to a
four year, ninety four point five million dollar contract that
has no player options and is guaranteed for ninety million.
They traded Joe Harris, Dallas's twenty twenty seven second and
Milwaukee's twenty twenty nine second to Detroit. They created a
nineteen point nine million dollar trade exception as part of
that deal. They traded Patty Mills and Milwaukee's twenty twenty
eight second rounder Houston for Brooklyn's own twenty twenty four
second rounder. They signed Dennis Smith Junior. They signed Lonnie
Walker the fourth, and they signed Darius baislely other notes
because I know that he is a cult following. They
waived Edmund Sumner Grant. How do you feel about these Nets?
Speaker 3: Pretty good?
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there weren't a lot of major transactions.
I could understand if people bump on the Joe Harris move.
It's just like we're gonna give away one of the
you know, five best shooters in the league of the
last half decade. But but you know, I think if
Cam Johnson's the higher priority and you don't have an
infinite amount of money you want to spend, I could
totally justify that move. I really like their minimums more
than more than most. I think Dennismith Junior has his problems,
but he's one of the best defensive guards in the league.
Just you know, he's all done level level defender. Lonnie
Walker the fourth, I really am surprised that he didn't
get more. You just I guess the market is what
it is. Uh, basly, I don't love but but for
for the minimum, those three guys could all play, and
I think these two of them definitely will.
Speaker 3: So at the.
Speaker 2: Draft, I'm not going to touch I mean, you got
picks in the twenties and then a fifty first pick.
I'm not going to pretend that I imagine it can
envision how those guys are gonna fit, if at all,
into the rotation this year.
Speaker 3: So for me, this is I'll just give it.
Speaker 2: It's a C plus nothing great, nothing terrible, slightly more
good than bad. I still kind of don't know what
this team is because you know, they lived two lives
last year, you know, pre and post Superstar or super
Team was the cutoff. I think we both love Bridges,
we both love Claxton. I think we both love other
than Ben Simmons, the books being you know, pretty pretty solid.
Uh So, yeah, nothing wowed me. Nothing like seems like
a big problem. So it's a little better than average.
That's That's about as hot of a take as I
could muster for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went with a C just because I don't
know what else they were supposed to do, and I
respect them just kind of keep their options open. Where
if you thought they needed to blow it up or consolidate,
you need more information on what this team is. I
think the Cam Johnson deal was as you mentioned, that's
just perfectly fine. I was surprised, which is the reason
I couldn't go to like a C. Plus maybe to
be minus that they needed to give up stuff to
get off Joe Harris. I guess maybe he's been that
rickety over the past season. Plus when you're looking at
his health, so there is that to consider. I'm not
gonna normally I would troll them for ducking the tax,
but this is just not a team that you're gonna
pay the tax for, and they don't have aspirations that
the Atlanta Hawks do, for example, where they're trying to
fancy themselves as contender, but they're gonna duck the tax anyway.
So I just think it was an average offseason for them,
which is what they needed to have. You want to
do anything that I think tethered you to any direction
one way or the other, because you still need more
information on what this team is going to be on
the floor. I like most of their minimum signings. I'm
probably lower on both Dennismith Junior than Lonnie Walker and
Lonnie Walker the fourth then consensus, but still at the
minimum that ends up being a pretty big deal. I
actually really like Noah Clowney the theory of a river
hector who can also space the floor. I do question like,
could they have done something to get like a little
bit more girthy size on this team, just because yeah,
you have Dayron Sharp, but how much you're planning on
playing him and now you have Noah Clowney and you
have Nick Claxton, and does Ben Simmons factor into the
big man rotation at all? Just you feel a little
slight is the why I would and you figure out
a way too, I think capably or at least reasonably
defend Jowell and beat in the playoffs. Regardless, I probably
would have liked to have see them gotten just a
burlier body in here to soak up those those types
of reps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a lot of teams where that would be
a criticism, but it definitely applies here because you don't
want to have to be like drawing up ridiculous schemes
every time you face like a legitimately center sized center
because you just don't have the bulk for so they're
in a weird spot with that.
Speaker 3: We have the Knicks next. Are you ready?
Speaker 1: This is gonna be that I would talk about a
quick team and that's not And look, the Knicks might
have done even less that we're being honest, they did.
Speaker 2: So you got Josh Hart just as we're recording this today,
got four years and eighty one million bucks as an extension,
takes his total deal to about ninety four million through
twenty seven to twenty eight. Dante di Vincenzo comes aboard
for four years and just under fifty million. Forty six
point nine of that's guaranteed it can get up another
three million or so. Obi Topping gone for a couple seconds,
and Derek Rose gone to Memphis. I don't know how
much that matters, but we are real short on transactions
for the Knicks. Did I did I miss anything there?
Speaker 1: They signed Nathan Knight, Jaalen Martin, and Dylan Windler who
two way contracts. They signed Jacob Toppen, They waved Trevor Keels,
and they waved and then re signed Dwayne Washington Junior. Well,
so I didn't miss anything, is what you're saying this
offseason is I saw there are some people who are
frustrated the Knicks weren't more active and they were never
just going to trade Julius Randall for anyone who's kind
of been in in that camp, like it wasn't gonna happen.
And you if you want them to acquire a star,
a star that makes sense needs to become available. Dono
Mitchell isn't back on the trade market for Cleveland, and
you could argue whether that even still makes sense to go.
He makes sense to go after they're not. They shouldn't
be a James Harden team. I would be opposed to
them being a Damian Lillard team, but you didn't make
his list of teams that you wanted to go to.
What they needed was shooting. We talked about this. They
needed shooting that was good enough to crack their closing lineup.
They were never going to get that for the non
textpayer mid level exception. I think the Vincenzo is a
reasonable salary placeholder. I don't think he's a capslock shooter.
His percentage last season says otherwise. But he struggled in
his early days Milwaukee, and then he looked all he
was coming off injury. He didn't look great with the
Kings necessarily, so there's a little bit of a gamble there. Actually,
I don't know if they got great value for him.
It's reasonable value. The Josh Hart extension, so he's now
under contract in total for five and ninety four. Right,
does that feel? Does that feel right?
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of depends on Josh Hart has
had a really up and down career. I think it's
I think it's on the high side or right probably
like it's it's within the range of what would be.
You know, again, this is not a crippler, right, This
isn't They're not paying him forty million bucks a year.
It's it's in the twenty neighborhood. I think it starts
at like eighteen and by the time it's over it's
up to like twenty two or twenty one in change
or something like that. I mean, I think it's totally fine.
You're talking like you think maybe it's a little too much.
Speaker 1: For Josh Hart just on this team because the three
point volume just is there, isn't there, and it's never
really been there. And is he Is he someone you
viewed as part of your closing lineup, Because if you're
gonna pay fifteen percent of the salary cap to someone
you let's just say that's what it ends up being.
You probably want him to have a shot not doing that.
And I just if you have Julius Randall and Mitchell
Robinson and Jalen Brunton, I don't love the Josh Hart
fit there because then you're playing him at the two
three rather than I love him at the four or
three four. So a lot of this comes back to, well,
is Julius Randall long for this team or should he be?
I don't think it's a bad move. And you got
him to opt in, which gave you the flexibility this
year to go out and get Dante DiVincenzo. I think
he improves your team. But it's just sort of like, Okay,
now you have Emmanuel Quickly and Jalen Brunton and Dante
divinen Zone, RJ Barrett and Josh Hart and Quenton Grimes.
Where what are we sort of doing with this preimive rotation.
It's not a terrible problem to have, though, and none
of these moves are damaging in the sense that unless
these players just suffer catastrophic injuries, you can't move them.
I just still don't think they made their offensive process
that much easier. I don't think they and I also
don't think they opened up runway for guys like em
Manual Quickly or r J Barrett to continue exploring themselves.
If anything, they've kind of shrunk the runway that those
two already had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little bit like Boston, where you can
be critical because they had a fairly clear set of
problems and they didn't really transact in a way that
addressed them, just specifically with the shooting in the closing lineup.
I kind of think that if your criticism of the
Knicks off season is that, well, they didn't swing big.
You know, they didn't do the Randal thing, or they
didn't consolidate, they didn't you know, throw quickly in Grimes
or whatever else into a deal for a shooter, or
they didn't use those guys to sweeten a Julius Randall deal.
I think one, it's pretty clear those deals weren't there
for any kind of reasonable value and too, like to
your point, they didn't do anything that that like hamstrings
their ability to eventually make the big swing. So I
think I get the frustration because this team was good
last year and needed to get it was pretty but
pretty clearly a notch or two below like the real
serious contending threats, and there's frustration if they don't level up.
It's just like the opportunity wasn't really there. I think
it is fair to be critical that the players that
they in Heart's case kept and in Devincenzo's case acquired
don't really they're kind of just like more of the same.
I mean, that's an oversimplification, but it's not so so
for me. This is a C minus and just because
they didn't do anything bad per se. But like the
quote unquote, you know the way they spent their money,
didn't didn't fundamentally change or you know, the ceiling or
and didn't certainly didn't address like what was kind of
wrong with.
Speaker 1: The team and look the other thing here, and you
can and should absolutely I'm not not crucify them for it.
That's way too strong. But they let Obi Toppins value
a road.
Speaker 3: I didn't even talk about that. That's totally right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's look, I don't I think a lot
of people figured as they were doing sort of him
a favor and Mike, let's keep that relationship. You know,
the agency attac blah blah blahti aa ya ya YadA,
YadA YadA. He wasn't worth much. He wasn't worth much
more than they got from which was too least favorable.
Speaker 4: Okay, picture this. It's Friday afternoon when a thought hits you.
I can spend another weekend doing the same old whatever.
Or I can hop into my all new Hyundai Santa
Fe and hit the road. With available h track, all
wheel drive and three row seating. My whole family can
head deep into the wild, conquer the weekend in the
all new Hundai Santa Fe. Visit Hyundai USA dot com
or call five six two three one four four six
oh three for more details. Hyundai, there's joy and every.
Speaker 1: Journey second round picks at this point, and I understand
that you didn't think Julius Renald was gonna hop off
the way he did. You watched him win Most Improved
Player three three seasons ago. At this point, like you
had more than enough time to kind of try and
make up this, like make up this ground or I
should say, a just recalibrate, and you didn't. I penalize
them for that a little bit. And to your point,
I do not. I want to make this clear. You
already mentioned this. I mentioned this. The big Swing wasn't
out there. I think you could lament should they have
been in on Max Shruce, like someone to give you
more functional shooting maybe than a devincenzo. Okay, sure, but
that's not all we missed out on Max Shruce, like
the Knick's gonna d it's this is evidence and I
don't know. This did not factor into my grade. I
want to make it clear, but I think it's a
worthwhile talking point. And we know how I feel about
the Knicks. This was evidence that we have seen to
use this word again, the erosion of what their best
trade package is because Obi Toppen was no longer an asset.
We're talking about all these first round picks that they
can move to Detroit and Washington pick specifically, are those
even gonna convey You have to ask yourself that question.
The Knick's own picks, if they're gonna be good, Yes,
they could still be viewed in the same vein as oh,
we got a King's first rounder. I just think the
Knicks have probably been so I would say mostly rational
with how they've gone about building their team and how
the front office has reacted. Those first round picks are
not gonna bowl you over unless you're giving out a
bunch of them where it's what we saw the package
was when Cleveland went all in on Donovan Mitchell or
Minnesota went all in on Rudy Gobert and Emmanuel Cookie's
extension eligible. So he's either even if you don't extend him,
he's not gonna be super valuable to trade knowing you
have to pay him, or is he gonna be as
valuable coming on his next deal. RJ has already been paid.
We have just slowly seen the gradation of their best
trade package. Go from Wow, the Knicks are best positioned
to land this star to now, okay, yeah they can
still make an offer. Will it be the best offer?
The answer is no. We've already seen him get out
bid when it came to Mitchell, which is again fine,
we both said we would not have made that trade
if they were them. But now you're getting to a
point where other teams are coming up in their timelines
where it's could okay, see or New Orleans eventually get involved.
Here Utah is floating around with all these assets. So
I'm I'm not down on the Knicks. I want to
make that clear, but this off season did not advance
their long term agenda in any way, shape or form.
If anything, I think it took away from it a
little bit. So I ended up with a C. I
wanted to go a little bit lower because I think
that they missed the boat on Obi topping, but I
do think to get someone who's as talented and theory
as Devincenzo, just for like the minimum, I think an
average off season is perfectly fair because you look at
that and say, Okay, well they didn't do anything that
they shouldn't have where it's there might have been the
impetus to where we just made it to the second round.
We have to get better, we have to do this
even if it's not worth it, and they did resist
that temptation.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you like a philosophical Knicks question,
because you've been through forever. It was we're gonna wait
or we're gonna just hunt, you know, whether it's back
to the Kevin Durant off season, We're like, we're gonna,
we're gonna bring in these stars, we're gonna we're biding
our time, and it's just like it didn't work out,
and or you go back farther like we're gonna pay
a Mari stodam are a ton of we're gonna trade
for Carmelo all this other thing.
Speaker 3: You've got the team so we can get them.
Speaker 2: So there were all these like really like you know,
their aims were high, like they in terms of like
the types of players that were trying to get, and
it was always just kind of there were lulls in
between when the Knicks would try to take a big.
Speaker 3: Swing on someone.
Speaker 2: Do you think that since this new management structure has
taken shape and the team has actually been run kind
of like in a rational way. Do you think that's
still the idea of like, well, we're gonna we're just
kind of we're holding onto these assets we're waiting for,
like the big trade or signing or signings that are
gonna really change our fate. Signings are a little harder
now because of their current commitments. But like, is it
that or is it more like we're just gonna try
to run a sane operation that doesn't grossly overpay for guys.
We're gonna be good, We're gonna be in the playoffs
and if we if it so happens that we, you know,
have an opportunity to get a start, great, But we're
just gonna kind of we're just gonna try to be
good and rational for a while and see how that feels.
Or is it still like this is just they're just waiting.
Speaker 1: They're trying to do both, but they're just waiting. They're
binding their time, and quite frankly, they have to because
there's no one on the roster right now that you
look at and say, yeah, there's Jealen Brunson, but who's
going to become our second north Star? And there's just
no one that's that's the I mean, the RJ. Barrett
ship has sailed on that front quite frankly, And because
you're so capable now, you're probably not going to be
in a position to draft that individual either, And so
I think they're just waiting, which again is fine. I
don't think it's I'm not it's it's a C and
I could probably be talking to a C minus just
because I feel like I didn't love anything they did.
But I'm trying to step away and say the Josh
Hard contract is just reasonable. They didn't overpay, I don't think,
and if they did, it was by a hair. Dante DiVincenzo,
if he's the player he was last season, ends up
helping you a ton.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that the Knicks are kind of
in there a little better than like in the quote
unquote middle, but but they're sort of ducking a lot
of the criticism that we level other like middling teams
like Chicago or I don't know who else to throw
in there. And I think it's just because they they
haven't gone and done the like the signing, or like
the Lavigne extension like they haven't, or the Vucevic trade
like they don't. They haven't made those types of moves
just piling on Chicago right now. They're just like in
the Chicago section, like like snuck into the New York
but it isn't you know. I wonder then, like how
much longer do we do this, what the Knicks are doing,
before we start getting like pick a direction, guys, before
we start throwing that at him.
Speaker 1: I think they're also rightfully so riding the high of
well they were right about Jalen Brunson when everyone else,
including us, were wrong. Not even the money, just the
process by which they acquired him, And I just wondered,
was he going to be as good on the Knicks
outside of Dallas spacing? And then the Mitchell Robinson deal
looks like, yeah, he was marginalized the points in the playoffs,
but that was something we missed on as well. Drewis
ran on a bounce back campaign. They've proven that they
know what they're doing. I just don't. I don't know
what the ceiling this team ceiling is currently constructed, feels
the same as it was last season. I don't know
where that internal growth comes from. It's probably Quentin Grimes
quickly Archie Barrett all taking that next step. I just
think the moves they've made have made it much harder
for those guys to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the product's gonna be good, and the Knicks are
gonna do a lot of the right things and run
a lot of things the right way.
Speaker 3: But it's always a little bit uneasy.
Speaker 2: It may it's an uneasy feeling when you're trying to
envision what the next great Knicks team looks like, and
like a couple of these guys are on that team,
most of them aren't, and so then it's like, what
are we doing here? But it's like hard to quibble with.
They're gonna be in the playoffs again, they'll probably win
around or two. Like that's that's good, we have.
Speaker 1: A break, right, Yeah, they could make the conference, but
there are three teams above them, for sure, and that's Cleveland,
it's Milwaukee. I don't even know if I feel confident
putting Boston man. Oh wow, yeah, So just so you're
in you're in a good spot. I just don't know
what you did to improve your flexibility now or later.
And maybe I'm again a sea is average for anyone
who gets mad there. I should take us on to
the Philadelphia seventy six Ers. The Knicks cannibalize some of
the nets time, but that's that's fine. Uh. The Sixers
fire Doc Rivers, they hire Nick Nurse, They signed to Mobamba,
They signed Patrick Beverley. They re signed Mantres Harrell, who
has since torn in ACL. They matched an offer sheet
on Paul Reid for three years twenty five and a
half million that is only guaranteed in year one, but
the second two years will guarantee if Philly wins an
opening round of the twenty twenty four playoffs. And they
signed Philip Patrussov. I just wanted to throw that in THERECAU.
I knew that you cared about that. Other notes, though
they're not moves. The John McDaniels left for the Raptors
on a two year nine point three million dollar contract,
George and Nyang left for the Cavs on a three
year twenty five point five million dollar contract that declines
in salary, and the Timberwolves signed Shake Milton to a
two year, ten million dollar deal that's non guaranteed for
year two. And as we know, probably the biggest note
on this team, James Harden opted in and then requested
a trade. He is right now as we record this,
still a member of the Philadelphia seventy six ers. Grant,
what do you there's a level of incompleteness here, I
will say, but it's not on this level as Miami
or even Portland. There's like a level of you guys
done fucked up?
Speaker 2: Yeah that is uh, we could stop there. I think
I think that's our that's our assessment.
Speaker 3: No, I think that's right. Like, you know, the so we've.
Speaker 2: Talked about downside risk a couple of times. The downside
here of just you know, Harden is gonna make it uncomfortable,
Like that's just what happens, it seems like. And and
this isn't the case of the heat.
Speaker 3: The heat.
Speaker 2: We're incomplete when we did them, which will er later
for like a completely opposite reason. It's like, well, they
might get this guy for the Sixers. It's like, well
they they're incomplete because they might trade this guy Hardened,
but we don't know what that's gonna net them. It's like,
is he what what are the you know, the whatever
the Clippers package is like maybe it maybe it replenishes
some depth, but you're just not gonna get someone that's
you know, and Harden was like, you know, I'm not
a big hardened fan generally speaking, but like he was
an All Star player last year. He was very good
for a lot of the season.
Speaker 1: The playoffs, when you look at somebod they catch all
metrics like he should have been a shoe in for
all NBA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And I mean the playoffs went how
they went. We got some real highs and we got
some lows. We got some real hard and lows in
there just to make sure that the narrative stayed what
it was.
Speaker 1: So I.
Speaker 3: It's an F.
Speaker 2: It's an F right now for me, And there is
a slash incomplete there because it could definitely get better.
Speaker 3: But I think maybe what.
Speaker 2: We haven't talked about, and maybe you could speak to
this is like what has happened to this offseason and
to and it does have like tails that go further
back a year or so, involving hard and involving morey.
You've now made it super foreseeable that Joel Embiid says
I'm good, guys, time to go.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be the next one. Now.
Speaker 2: That's I don't know how you factor that into an
off season grade. It's not going to lower it because
I already.
Speaker 3: Gave him an F.
Speaker 2: But like the way they've operated did brings that into
into like the realm of possibility in a pretty significant way,
where had things gone differently, that would not be the case.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm curious if you were as down on it as me.
The team is gonna be worse just overall talent wise,
Like losing Shake Milton is not is not nothing, Losing
Nyang is not nothing. Even losing Jalen McDaniel's is not nothing.
And then you basically have Embid, you have Tobias Harris,
you have Tyre's Maxi and whatever you get for Harden
like that's your new core.
Speaker 3: You're worse.
Speaker 2: And this is a team that's trying to win a title,
So you're worse, and you're potentially like catastrophically worse.
Speaker 3: So I could not get behind this offseason.
Speaker 1: I don't with an F as well. There's look, I
think you look at the players they could have kept.
There are rotation players, and you say, well, none of
them are just like can't miss, and they're clearly trying
to preserve flexibility for next summer, which is why they're
not going to extend Tyre's MAXI maybe some people factor
that as part of their great Again. You can't go
lower unless you're gonna go on and F minus. I
try to give out only one a maximum of one
F minus per conference and alert it's not gonna be
to this team. H and I. Sometimes sometimes there's no
F minus is given out. I don't think either of
us gave out and F minus last year, if I'm
not mistaken. So here's my thing, the two things that
stent out. So forget the players that left, which you
I think I'm most uncomfortable with John McDaniels leaving just
because of what they gave up to get him, and
you kind of need that type of player. Let's start
here with the Harden stuff. You know what happened last
offseason where he took that pay cut, and the reports
now are you were only willing to go one plus
one on him this year, even if that was for
the full max. Like I understand why Harden's kind of aggrieved.
I don't think he has necessarily a ton of leverage.
I think he's better equipped to navigate this than Damian
Lillard because he will make shit uncomfortable for everyone. But
I kind of get it. You asked him to take
this pay cut, and yes, you could say, well, we're
playing the market. Who is gonna give him that money?
I just I feel like they really mishand was there.
Did they really envision Harden going from taking miss one
plus one and then taking another one plus one so
that you could float cap space that would either entail
one getting rid of him or to him taking another
pay cut. I just I don't understand that. And then two,
why do you care so much about cap space? Now?
We just saw that it's not gonna do anything like, yeah,
maybe you get a Fred van Fleet level player. And
if the idea is we're gonna get og Ananobi from
the Raptors, is oge ANDOBV guy that you plan your
entire two years worth of cap space around? Is that
the guy? And then oh, hey, also, you just hired
his former coach and Nick Nurse, So I think it's
probably a tactical upgrade over Doc Rivers. So let's give
them that. Uh that's the f plus move of the
of the off season. But everything we hear coming out
of Toronto, both publicly and behind the scenes, is that
most of the players despised Nick Nurse, And so was
your grand idea to get og Ananobi to come play
for Nick Nurse? Again? Did og Ananobe have that type
of relationship with Nick Nurse? I don't understand what they're doing,
and you now created at best less unless Harden has
a change of heart. But they're tracking towards a gap
year with Joel Embiid and you just don't have that
kind of time to squander. You need to operate with
more organized urgency. And this is like very laissez far
like aimlessness. It sort of feels like right now And
the only thing that I think can change this grade
is do they somehow get enough out of a James
Harden trade to turn around and then acquire another star.
But even then, I'm like, if you go from having
James Harden, you get this asset package back, but you
still need to include Tyre's Maxi to get that other star.
You now have to bake that into the opportunity cost
of this next player cost us James Harden and Tyrese Maxi,
because I don't think you can trade one first round
pick right now, you drain one. So are you getting
enough back in a James Harden trade to attach to
that one first round pick to keep Maxy and then
go get a star. I guess we should leave open
the possibility, but I honestly it's not gonna happen from
the Clippers, that's for sure. So this is it's an
f it's it's a TVD because we do need to
see how this plays out. But right now it's adath.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing to add, just other than every team has
like a spectrum of possible outcomes, like small picture, big picture.
The Sixers just added a big section of like this
is good disastrous, like we are going to be starting
over after we trade Joel Embiid, which you'll get a
lot for him, but like that, that's now a very
big part of their possible future. You know scenarios. Do
I have the Raptors or do you have the Raptors?
Speaker 1: You have the Raptors.
Speaker 3: All right, here we go. We signed we I play
for the Raptors.
Speaker 2: Now, as you know that, they signed Yaka Pearl to
a four year, eighty million dollars deal with the player option.
Gary Trent Junior, surprisingly to me anyway, opted in for
eighteen point six million. Dennis Shrewder is on board for
two years and twenty five. Gela McDaniels. We just talked
about him with the Sixers two year's nine point three
million Auto Porter Junior opted in after just basically missing
the entire year. That was not a surprise six point
three million for him.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: The Raptors drafted Grady Dick at number thirteen. They fired
Nick Nurse and hired Darko.
Speaker 3: Uh. I've spelled it wrong, so I can't read it now.
Where's it on your sheet? Yakovic Rayakovic? I know it
was like Stayakovic? What did I write? I wrote, Ya
Yakovic terrible, lost Fred van Vliet. I'm sure we'll discuss that,
and lost Don o'banton, And uh, did I miss anything
of consequence other than that?
Speaker 1: I feel like you weren't critical enough when you were
going through the list of moves, is like kind of
a what the fuck face? And they did they waved
given that for you.
Speaker 3: I was gonna give you the runway.
Speaker 1: There because they waved. They waved Joe Wie's camp. That matters.
But you mentioned Gary Trent Junior. Is he Congratulations by
the way, Garrett Temple for continuing his run of just
being a locker room getting paid.
Speaker 3: Fix our disastrous locker room.
Speaker 1: Uh so there's the Pascal S. Yakham trade roomors that
are floating around out there. I assume Gary Trent junior
extension is going to be coming, because, like I said,
I couldn't identify the team that was going to pay
him more, but I like I was surprised that he
opted in. So those are the other two notes this team.
You drop out a disastrous offseason. This is now the
second time in a row they let a franchise Cornerstone
walk for basically nothing. And you know what's even more egregious.
You could argue to think Kyle Lowry is solid, he
was past his heyday. They got precious a chew out
of him. Fine fregitively left for two years, two guaranteed years,
and you couldn't muster up like the ability to well, okay,
we'll be in at tax, but we'll figure out how
to cut that down later. Maybe it's a Chris Bouchet trade.
And do we get rid Ofvado Porter junior? Do we
move those other pieces around? And yet you turn around
after giving up a top six protected first round pick
for Yaka pertl. He kind of had you with the
bird rights trap. You just gave twenty million dollars a year,
which is still let's say, fifteen percent of the salary cap,
moving forward to someone who probably can't close games for
you right now because of his re throw shooting, at
least not most of the games.
Speaker 2: And part of the reason you did that is because
you traded a lightly protected first rounder for him. So well,
we've definitely let's throw the good money after bad now.
I mean, I don't know how you factor that into
the offseason, but like, the trade they made to get
him is very much part I think of why they
paid him what they did to keep him.
Speaker 1: And by the way, you let the player who assisted
on one third of his baskets just leave for nothing,
for no compensation, you don't get to spin that in
a good way. Okay, Dennis Schuder might be fine. Jee
McDaniel's nice signing. Your floor spacing is dog shit even
more than it was so last season. And I like
the Grady Dick pick, which is the like the saving
grace of this offseason. But like, this team is going
through and it's not just this summer. It's now a
year's long existential crisis, and we are far enough removed
from the bubble escapade, from the season they spent in
Tampa to where they need to have a better hold
on who they are and where they're going. They do not.
This was I try to give him AYUJII the benefit
of the doubt, but this was this was This was
an off season that was just straight up fuck shit.
And I don't say that lightly. They get an F minus.
This was the worst off season in the league. And
I don't know, you don't you know what, even if
they turn around and trade Siaka, we get a bunch
of value for him, or if they turn around and
then double down and acquire someone who really helps them,
it is what they need that's not gonna salvage. They're
great for me because you let this player who is
mission critical to what you're doing leave for nothing at
a time when that just doesn't happen anymore. This was
I just don't know. Yes, you have Scotty Barnes, still
you've not made the spacing environment around him any easier
to make him work on the ball. And I still
believe it's Scotty Barnes. I think this team has a
lot of talent, but what is their aim, what is
their angle? What are they doing. I have no idea.
And you know what really bugs me is I don't
think this is a situation where and just based off
people I've asked this question to, we're thirty thousand feet
removed from the situation where it's, oh, well, we don't
see what they're doing, but there's like something going on. No,
this team has no fucking clue what it's doing behind
me the scenes. Either they were spinning their wheels. They
don't know what's happening. This is probably one of the
most inflammatory things I said in the podcast in the
last year. And I'm not trying to be like full
talking ahead about it. How are you I was so
high on the Raptors leading into last season. They I
was wrong. They were clearly wrong, but like they were
wrong in a way where they didn't even recalibrate what
they doubled down and then they still let Fred van
Fleet walk. How how do you give them a higher
grade than the lowest grade possible? Can we give an
F minus minus?
Speaker 2: Well I stopped at F, so I'm way higher on
it than you are. But yeah, it's it's an F
for me. I think the only uh, I mean, it's
like being a dead horse. But like you could go
down all their major transactions of the last year and say, like, well,
they should have done the opposite, did not trade fredvan
Fleet should have traded Hi.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna so now. I always I much more than
you do.
Speaker 2: Am always of the mind, well you gotta trade this
guy now, because the possibility of him leaving for nothing
would just be catastrophic. And it's and you're right, that
doesn't happen that often because you can structure it as
a sign and trade. There's just there's ways to prevent that.
But now you better believe I'm going to bring up
the Fred van Fleet example a lot when I started
talking about guys on expiring deals that you should trade
or you know, certainly trade them before they get to
the expiring year of their deal. I think you should
have traded Gary Trent. You should have had some idea
of what like you can't just be in a position
and this gets to the larger point of like something
feels kind of rotten in Toronto, just like holistically, you
can't be in a position where I gotta believe they
were surprised that he opted in. I assume because if
you if you'd had conversations and that was going to
be his plan. I think you probably would have traded
him or you and said, and you just don't make
the pearl trade full stop, because what what was the
purpose of that? Like just you were you trying to
get better last year? Do you think he's a key
piece of what if he's the piece of a team
going forward, what is that team supposed to be?
Speaker 1: I think he helped as like an actual screener and
roller guy. He helped Fred van Fleet. But you turned
out Lett Woggle.
Speaker 3: I was just like it just yeah, so it's an
F for me.
Speaker 2: If I were giving F minuses, this would be the
worst off This to me is the worst offseason. And
it's because you you get a little bit of everything,
Like you get the mismanaged assets leading into it, you
get a bad signing, you get the big picture of
like this team just does not seem to have a
handle on like what direction it's going or how to
get there.
Speaker 3: So you get it all with Toronto.
Speaker 1: The your Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 2: Why are they gotta be all right, I'll take them,
I'll take I'll take the Chicago Bulls.
Speaker 3: So they did a lot.
Speaker 2: They signed some basketball players, many of whom were already
on the team, the first of which, in terms of significance,
Nicole Vuchvic is back three years sixty million dollar extension.
Kobe White also back three years and thirty six I
would soon move back three years and twenty one sign
Javon Carter three years nineteen point five million. Are cornering
the market on defense first guards. With Alex Crusso already
on the team, got Tory Craig for the minimum, lost
another defense first guard and Patrick Beck release, so I
had to replace him an Javonte Green and Derek Jones Junior.
I think remains unsigned. You can correct me if that
is the case or is not the case.
Speaker 3: Did I miss anything?
Speaker 1: Djj opted in. I believe he's outside. You're right that
last year, you are correct.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much it so a lot of action in
terms of money spent and players acquired slash retained.
Speaker 3: Are the Chokgobuls better? Doesn't matter? How do you feel
about what they did this offseason?
Speaker 1: Well, they're the perfect team to talk about. How much
do you penalize a team that's not acting in a
way that you would would you control them? It's not
a matter of what moves did they miss out on.
It's a matter of the path not yet traveled, which
would be to tear it down, because I think every
single move they made the Voostal, I still don't love it,
but it's like that everyone seemed to think that was
a fine number. I did see what I first reported.
I thought, I said three years in eighty million, and
so my response to it was just so inflammatory. I
love the Javon Carter deal. I think that's a great fit.
I think they made. Kobe White had a quietly a
good season last year. Iowe to Tunemu. I can't believe
no one else wanted to even take a look at him.
I thought they got good value there. One of the
things I'm questioning though I know nothing about him, so
I didn't judge this too harshly. But why was number
thirty five Julian Phillips worth second rounders in twenty six
and twenty seven? Feels like a very you know, are
the balls really gonna be that good? Then that felt
like a little steeper price to pay. I don't know
what to give this team. Is there is there a
move that they made not that they didn't make? Is
there a move that they made that you actively dislike.
Speaker 2: I'd say the Vucevich deal comes the closest to that,
But that is going to tie into the like, what's
the bigger plan here kind of line of criticism than
the years and dollars for this particular player, Like it's
kind like he's probably worth that, right, Like in a vacuum,
I think he's actually, he's definitely worth that in a vacuum.
He's a good player, good offensive player. Somehow the Bulls
have had good defensive numbers. That's probably because Alex Caruso
is involved with Vucevic out there, So it's like, that's
that's the closest I can get to ooh, that's just
objectively a bad move, right, And I don't even feel
I don't even think I would, you know, if press
would say that, that's just, oh, that's bad, Like you
probably can't trade them for value at that number, So
that isn't great. But it ties in more to the
the first thing you led with, which was like how
closely did the Bulls moves adhere to like what I
would have done if I were in charge of the team,
And in that sense, they're way off. But a lot
of that is just it's got to do with like
the team that they've built over the last three four years.
It's just you're they're in a situation that I wouldn't
want to get into because they're just in the middle
and everything they did this I think you look at
all those signings and it's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they might be better.
Speaker 2: They could be better this year significantly even maybe, but
it's still middleish to me. And so I'll just say
it's a D plus. And that's with saying that if
you go down the line, like itemize their transactions, there's
nothing that makes you say, oh my god, this is CTUs.
This is horrible, like they've they've ruined the It's just
the team is going to be roughly what it was
last year and the year before, and that's not a
place I'm interested in being if I can get myself
out of that.
Speaker 1: I've wanted to see minus in part because not that
they didn't tear it down, but if you were going
to go this route, you still didn't address your biggest needs,
which I guess their biggest need was we want to
avoid the tax, which they did, congratulations since and they
but like you needed shooting volume. Maybe another point guard
in a here, could you diversify your front court rotation
at all? They checked none of those bosses, just because
I think Javon Carter comes closest. But he's not extra
ball handling really. I mean he will give you some
extra shooting, but like Tory Craig is not that guy
and he doesn't. And again I like the signing, but
like you, they should have been a team, and it
could have been because they weren't going to spend that money.
They should have been in on like the Max True
sweep stakes. He would have done a lot of wonders
for them. And so if you want to be a
team that's better, go ahead and act like a team
that's better. Stop penny pinching just to avoid the tax.
And so, yes, they made reasonable signings that we can
all like in a vacuum, but I don't know that
they're much better and look much better than a playing team.
Is not something to write home about either. And I
think it's close to an average offseason because nothing they
did was below average. But for them to decide that
we're not going to start over or more realistically explore
a rebuild, and then not be aggressive and trying to
get better. It's just like that's a miss m.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2: I think if you start to think about the counterfactual,
it's like, well, if they're gonna do what we want
them to do, what was the market for Jamar de Rosen,
what was the market for zach Lavine. And it's possible
that they could have traded those guys and we would
be just as critical because they didn't get enough for
them in our opinions, But.
Speaker 1: Or could have been the Wizard's route of oh, we're
excited that they finally chose a direction outside of the
sub middle.
Speaker 2: I think that's more likely had they just gutted the
team and got what they could get for their expensive veterans,
I think I probably would have had a higher grade almost,
you know, unless they just I'm trying to think of
a situation where you trade zach Lavine and just like
get nothing, which that's not realistic because you get something
for him, you know, you end.
Speaker 1: Up getting at least three the equivalent of three first
round picks for Sacklavine.
Speaker 3: I would have felt better had they done that.
Speaker 2: But you know, if if you're interested in being five
hundred or maybe a little better than that, then this
is the team for you.
Speaker 1: Like, what are the odds that they use their disabled
player exception they got from Blodzo last than zero.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, can I go like into negative numbers?
Is that allowed?
Speaker 1: I will take us to the Cleveland Cavaliers. I assume
their off season is going to be more upbeat. They
drafted Emity Bates and signed them to a two way contract.
They signed Georgiayang to a three year, twenty five point
five million dollar deal that declines in salary. They acquired
Max Struce on a four year, sixty four million dollar
deal for the Lakers' twenty twenty six second round pick.
They signed Isaiah Mobley and Craig Porter Junior to two
way contracts. They re signed Cowris Lavert to a two year,
thirty two million dollar deal. They signed Ti Jerome to
a two year, five million dollar deal that's fully guaranteed.
They traded cash to Utah for Damian Jones and as
another note here, Ricky Rubio is taking time away from
basketball to work on his mental health. It's not clear
whether he will be with the team when training camp opens.
Did I miss anything? Where do you land on this offseason?
Speaker 2: Grant Hi, you got everything that I had, plus Damian Jones,
so I glossed over. Did you mention some of the losses?
Not none of them than huge, but Robin Lopez, Dylan Windler,
Danny Green or Lopez and Windler gone, Danny Green and
Netto remain unsigned, not needle movers. I love their offseason.
Speaker 3: I think they did.
Speaker 2: You know, I guess, I guess. If you're gonna be critical,
it's well Max Strus, like.
Speaker 3: Is he exactly what they needed?
Speaker 1: Is he?
Speaker 3: Is he big enough?
Speaker 2: Is he good enough defensively to fill that like glaring
void at the three that just was such a piece
of why the Cavs underwhelmed in the playoffs. I think
he's about as good as they could have done realistically.
So like, if we're gonna try to be fair about,
you know, what did a team do relative to what
it was capable of doing? I think Struce is really like,
as you know, just barring like pie in the sky stuff.
That's that's as good as you're gonna do to fill
that void. Not perfect, but you know, hard hard to
quibble with that.
Speaker 1: You weren't going to get someone who defends like Isaac
Okoro but shoots like ed shoots like Max s Druce. Right,
first of all, that player wasn't on the market this
summer anyway, but you weren't going to get that with
having the tools you did to work with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just thinking of comps, like there aren't even
really any good comps, but just in terms of like
what guys got paid.
Speaker 3: You know Cam Johnson we talk all the time.
Speaker 2: He's not quite a three any but like he got
you know, four years and ninety like you just that's
you couldn't have gotten a guy like that for the
the with the tools that the Cavs had.
Speaker 3: I don't love Lavert, but it's a short deal.
Speaker 2: Two years, thirty two millions, fine, Like that's great for yeah,
sixth seventh guy. Maybe that can run the team if
you know one of or both Garland and Mitchell are out.
Speaker 3: Niang three for twenty five.
Speaker 2: Three to twenty five seems a little rich, but that's
just more shooting. And if you're gonna play two bigs
and Evan Mobley doesn't develop a three point shot as
quickly as someone prefer like, I think Niang is gonna
bring real value and the good back line defense is
going to mitigate some of his struggles to stay in
front of guys on the perimeter, So there's the theory
of him on the team works.
Speaker 3: It's just a little costly.
Speaker 2: So I have this down as a B plus, but
I think I need to go to an A minus.
But I'm hesitant because I have so many high grades
in this division that I don't want to do it.
But to be fair to the Cavs, this feels more
like an A range grade than a B range grade.
Speaker 1: To me, I would be plus just because the George
and the A sidy makes me a little uncomfortable in
the sense that are we going to see him play
some three and then he's not someone who rebounds well
enough to make the mobile at five? You and it's
that much better there, and I think you look got okay, Well,
what else were they supposed to do with that money?
I just like, would you be better off without George
Yang in? In general? So I don't I don't like.
It's it's more shooting, like you said, and there's real
volume there. Both him and Max Shrew's I think average
about nine plus attempts per thirty six minutes from deep.
They totally needed that. I do think Niang is probably
not someone who's in your playoff rotation, at least not
anywhere near prominently, and sort of give him three guaranteed
years for you know, quite a bit of like quite
a bit of money. It's not you know, it's it's
not nothing in the grand scheme of the cap, but
you're not paying him nothing at this point. You gave
him most of the non tax payer at Emily. So
I that's I'm just trying to poke holes and I
don't think there's anything out there that they necessarily could
have done better. But you probably could have gotten another
like Biggish type and just sort of plug that hole
and move forward for cheaper. And so that's like the
one to merit I have for them, But i'd b
plus a very strong gravelim. I think Max Strews is
a fantastic fit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do I have the pistons or do you? As we
move on, you have you have the pistons?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Happy, happy Dan, really happy to have the pistol since
one of my favorite off seasons drafted the sar Thompson
number five, but before that hired Money Williams, so the
richest head coaching contract in NBA history.
Speaker 3: That is a huge deal. I would love to know
the mechanics.
Speaker 2: I think there's been some reporting on it, but it's like,
how do he was never gonna say no to that
that amount of money wasn't The.
Speaker 1: Report was basically he tried to say no. They made
it so that he couldn't.
Speaker 2: But credit the Pistons for realize, like, there's not you know,
there's all these salary constraints, and all we've spent the
last several months talking about is how the CBA makes
it harder to build a good team and keep it together.
It's like, you can spend whatever you want on a coach,
so do it, because it especially for a team like
the Pistons that's a ton of young guys that wants
to be good, that has operated kind of weirdly at
times as a team that's like, well, we're gonna keep
boy on Bogdanovitch and we're gonna extend him because he's
valuable and he's gonna make us bet Like this is
the move so so many I have no problem with
paying money. Williams as much as you possibly can. Brought
in Joe Harris, brought in Monte Morris with seconds attached
to Harris and all costs was a future second to
get Morris signed Beef Stu Isaiah Stewart four years sixty
million could go up to sixty four. I think there's
a team option on the last year of that, which
is awesome.
Speaker 3: I just I'll throw it to you.
Speaker 2: But I struggled to find fault with almost anything that
the Pistons did.
Speaker 1: Waving R. J. Hampton was unforgivable. I know, so this
is not a real to burant for me. But they
gave up like kind of a lot to just get
Marcus asser At was that seven? It was just they
number thirty one in two seconds. I guess it's not
like a huge deal, so I need to That's just
something to monitor. But I love everything they did. And
anyone who says that them wasting their turn their cap
space basically into Joe Harris and Monte Morris is a failure.
It's not because who are they supposed to get if
they wanted Cam Johnson? Guess what the next word letting
him leave. So it's not like they allowed the Nets
to keep camp Johnson. Camp Johnson was just never leaving Brooklyn.
That's how restricted free agency works. I like the idea
of rolling over their flexibility into next summer. I love
Theosar Thompson pick. I think you could argue, well, he
was the only pick on the board. It was when
you look at the makeup of this team, they might
have decided, oh, do we trade down? Do we go
with someone who might provide a little bit more spacing
right off the bat. I'm a big believer in Nasar
Thompson as a defender, and I think I don't know
what he's going to be as a shooter, but I
have more faith and I've said it countless times on
his jumper than Ahmed Thompson's jumper. I think that the
speed is at least there. Can they make some tweaks
to the form and the release point. We'll have to
wait and see. But I loved everything about their offseason
and I think, look, the Beasts doing extension is fine.
He is not. When you talk about how sort of
top seat turvey they are upfront, He's not really a
part of that because he comes closest to allowing them
to make do a big lineup's work where it's oh,
he can step out and take the occasional three and
four and sixty is just it sounds like a lot,
but with the cap going up, it's just ten percent
of the cap at one point is what it's going
to be. Whatever. Yeah, and I think he's a hustle
enough player when you look at him on a defense
specifically that I I think it had to be good
for you. I will say, I hope that you don't
go out and get Joe Harris, Monte Morris, keep boy
On Madonovich and Alec Berks. If you don't intend on,
We're gonna try and surround Kate Cunningham and or Sar
Thompson and or Jane and Ivy with as much shooting
as possible to wear one Joe throw the dual big
stuff out the window, and like we're gonna see boy
On Madonovich play the four, maybe Joe Harris play some four.
And then we're gonna see some staggering lineups where it's hey,
it's Jalen Duran and it's Kate Cunningham and all shooting,
or it's uh, maybe it's Kate Cunningham Isaiah Stewart and
then it's still all shooting around them, and then mix
a match with Arsar Thompson there where it's if you
want to have Thompson and Ivy and Kate Cunningham, you
want two of them on the court at the same time,
well then your big man's gonna be We're gonna experiment
with Isaiah Stewart at the five and then a whole
bunch of shooters. So I hope that's what this spells.
I know a lot of people are still assuming that
they're just gonna start. They were starting James Wiseman and
Jail and Duran by the end of the year. I
hope that's not what we see. That has nothing to
do with their offseason, and it's you could say, oh,
they should have traded Boyana Badanovic. You get the same
about for him leading into February as you would have
gotten for him in July. So I think they're a
I think they're they're a they're a off season. Their
off season wasn't A. I just struggle to go A
plus because I don't know enough about Marcus Sasser, but
I haven't seen anything that makes me think, oh, like
this is that's that's a move that you definitely needed
to make it. I know you're you're like giggling.
Speaker 2: I just I just want to write down, remember to
monitor Marcus Sasser because you made it a real fa No.
I no, Look, it's like that's what you have to
do when you're looking for reasons to criticize this offseason
for them.
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 2: I don't think I gave any a pluses I gave.
I gave the Pistons of Flat A probably would be
my A plus if I if I were to give one.
Speaker 1: Right they did they have the I mean, we don't
want to spoil the Western Conference here, but did they
have like the best off season of anybody they might have?
Speaker 3: I think it's I mean, they're certainly in the conversation.
Speaker 2: I haven't looked hard enough at the West yet to know,
but I think of the East, I mean, yeah, we
probably shouldn't. I mean, actually, the next team we're going
to talk about is kind of to me like you
could you could have a conversation about whether they they
had just as good of an offseason.
Speaker 3: So let's get to the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 1: Are they mine? Are you so o? Their mind?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: The Indiana Pacers traded number eight blow Coola Bali to
Washington for number nine, Jarres Walker and Sacramento's twenty thirty
second rounder. They drafted Ben Sheppard at number twenty six.
They were part of like the Denver Nuggets whole Shenanigans.
They traded number twenty nine at number thirty two for
number forty seven cash and at twenty twenty four first
it's gonna be the least favorable of OKC the Clippers,
Houston or Utah. They traded Christa Marte to the Kigs
for Dallas' twenty twenty eight second and Sacramento's twenty thirty second.
That's how they helped complete the Black Koula Bali deal.
And then they signed Bruce Brown to a two year,
forty five million dollar contract with a team option on
the final season. And they traded two least favorable second
round picks in twenty eight and twenty nine to New
York for Obi Toppin other notes that are just worth
considering because it might show where they viewed themselves. They
have been linked to the Pascal Siakam trade sweepstakes.
Speaker 2: Uh Max Tyres Halburn, I don't know if you mentioned
that one. That was another one that was my only
only big item feel really good about this offseason. It's
not quite as like you know, the hits don't just
keep coming quite like they did for Detroit before them.
Speaker 3: But like the big stuff, I think I like.
Speaker 2: I think I probably like Jeris Walker a little more
than you do, at least Hendricks. Oh, I mean, well,
I know, I know you don't like anyone more than
Taylor Hendricks. So I feel like that's an unfair comparison. Uh, yeah,
that that's fair. I guess if no, I think I
like the fit, I like Jeris Walker. Again, don't draft
for fit, don't draft for fit. And here I am
like saying, oh, he makes sense next to Miles Turner.
So yeah, as always, I don't ever know what I'm
talking about. The Bruce Brown deal, I mean, one of
the best deals signed this offseason, just you know, it
seems like a lot of money up front, just on
an annual basis, but it's like you get the team
option on that.
Speaker 1: And it's just like if you need to make a trade,
it's just like you just have this monster expiring contract there.
But I'm a player, like in the same vein of
Buddy Hill.
Speaker 2: He's really useful universal appeal for like Bruce Brown, there's
I find me the team where they're like, I don't
know what we would do with Bruce Brown like there,
it doesn't exist in Atlanta. I just I don't know,
start him at the three figured out? Yeah, I I
think I think Toppin now you can't talk about fit
because he's not a rookie. I think Toppin makes a
lot of sense with just the style they want to play,
like just run, just go, get up and down the
floor and Tyres Haliburton's gonna find you.
Speaker 3: I think you know this.
Speaker 2: This We've criticized a lot of teams for sort of
like what's the plan? Like what do you what's the
plan here? Like how do you want to play?
Speaker 3: What are your goals?
Speaker 2: Like standings wise, the Pacers really feel like a team
that understands what they are and like how they want
to play, what they want to do. So for me,
I gave him a name minus. I guess maybe maybe
that's a nod to Walker. Could have been somebody else,
you know, could have been Hendricks. But I mean it's
it's so early. I don't know just getting Haliburton, getting Brown.
Speaker 1: To that deal, And if I'm not mistaken, there was
no player option on the Halliburton deal, right.
Speaker 3: I don't think so even if there were like, I mean, yeah,
it's just no.
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's like a that's a sign that
contract no matter what. But if yeah, Potrack's not showing
a player option, So if you don't get up, that's
just that's a net plus where it's just like that
you give Tyreus Alburt and that deal regardless. But if
there's no player option, that's that's an even bigger win. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, that that's all I got on them. I mean
they're up there with the Pistons, I think certainly in
in this division.
Speaker 1: I gave them an A by this because I really
do believe they missed on Taylor Hendrix, and that'll be
something that Okay, if they didn't, they should have gotten
an A or like you can equipple over that. I
just I Caitlin Cooper has done at least two fantastic
breakdowns on Jarvis Walker, one leading into the draft and
then one that was during Summer League and the defensive
pressure that he gives you, and then even just malleability.
I totally understand it. I don't know that Taylor Hendricks
would have given you much fewer options defensively, and it
would have come with I think a cleaner offensive fit
to where it's just like you now, you're continuously having
these other if you want to call them bigs or
forwards next to Miles Turner, where unless they're undersized, they're
just not Like Obi Top is not a plus shooter
right now, and like if you want to play Jalen Smith,
that's not a plus shooter. If you even figure that
Isaiah Jackson needs to factor into this, that's not someone
who's gonna be in that department. So I really thought that.
I also think that Hendrix's long term because of his
rim protection, might be better equipped to play the five.
And that's just we don't know enough about them. People
have followed those guys for way longer than I have,
so they can disagree there. That's just why I went
to an A minus. There's literally nothing else I might
even being glad to go with A because of the
you don't have a player option on Tyre, like you
can just have Tyres Albert now for the next six years,
which gives you, for being honest, five years before you
would need to make any sort of real decision on Okay,
where are we? And I think what they also did
was nice. Not only are they rolling over flexibility in
the next season, but like their timelines a very open
ended where's we could be good and then maybe that's
when we go and make the pass, go see Akham
trade if if he's still available mid season or he
make another trade, or like, okay, this is another year.
But there's a real, real theory to what we're doing.
Fans are still gonna tune in and maybe we'll be
fringe playing again and we're gonna have another high draft pick.
They're just there's a lot of different directions they could travel.
They did not limit themselves in any way, shape or
form with anything they did.
Speaker 2: I think they're interesting because, oh, it feels like they're
a young team, which is just I guess because of
Haliburton's age. But like Helburn's really good now. Halburn is
an All Star player today. And you know, Benedic Matherin
has limitations, but like the things he does well, he
does well right now. Unless you think, oh, we're waiting for.
Speaker 3: Him to become like a you.
Speaker 2: Know, an all fringe All Star starter, like I don't.
I don't think that's in the cards for mather And
I think Matherin is like a like stick a dynamite
six man scorer and he's that now. I mean he
trailed off, but like you get you get the point.
Speaker 1: And he's improved his passing for sure. I think you
mentioned Maths makes me think of this. I applaud the
page they are, they were, and they will continue to
be very i'll say creative or innovative with their lineups,
but there's still absence of true sized wig players here
where it's okay, you're good to see Bruce Brown and
Buddy Heal and math like a lot of those guys
play the three and deb Hard defending fours. It's just like,
aside from Aaron E. Smith, who is the other just
wig on this team? It's not even is Ben Sheppard?
That guy is probably Walker.
Speaker 3: You probably just have Walker guard everybody, right, Is that
is that the theory?
Speaker 1: Right? I guess So that's a question. But I don't
know what, Like you weren't going to get a better
quote unquote wig than Bruce Brown on the free agent market,
So it's just a question.
Speaker 2: No, That's that's the point I'm making, is like it
seems like a young team, so maybe like, well what's
Bruce Brown doing here? And like does does what we
what's the what do we bring veterans on? It's like, no, no,
the Pacers could just compete for a playoff spot now
and then when Bruce Brown is gone, when whether they
trade them or they keep them for the two years.
You know, Terrys Haliburn's like twenty five and a half
years old by then, and you're still just you're you're
ready to continue competing.
Speaker 1: So they certainly have a case for best offseason in
the NBA for sure.
Speaker 2: The last team we have is the Milwaukee Bucks in
this division. Start with the big stuff. Fired Mike Budenholzer.
Sort of controversial, I guess, But at the same time,
you know, or is this one of those where we say,
like it's Kevin Durant's shoe size determined, you know, bought
Mike Budenholzer like two more.
Speaker 3: Years, Like yeah, we need to trot that out.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't a fan of the firing, but
I don't know enough about Adrian and you're gonna get
through they hired Adrian Griffin, right, we know less.
Speaker 2: About Adrian Griffin, So I mean that's the that's the
other issue. But it's one of those things that kind
of felt like you get it right. It felt like
it was time. There's been enough whispers, and you gotta
if you're gonna change something, you can't change the team.
Speaker 3: You gotta change the coach.
Speaker 1: I get it.
Speaker 3: It's unfortunate. It may not be an upgrade.
Speaker 2: We'll see brought back Chris Middleton three years ninety three
with a player option. Recent Brooklopez two years forty eight.
Seems like sez he was.
Speaker 1: He can't Milwaukee was on brazing the fridges of the
entire NBA he was cover didn't he side for the
biadnual when he went to Milwaukee?
Speaker 3: Well, it was just like, I mean, go back farther
than that. I mean, just you know, the Lakers were
kind of like.
Speaker 2: Eh, we don't you know, basically yeah, and then he's,
you know, is in the defensive player that you're running
every year after that and shoots threes and is great.
Those are huge deals. We'll talk about them more, I'm sure.
But like those were not givens either, I don't think,
especially in the case of Lopez, who seems like.
Speaker 1: He almost would argue that he was a member of
right right.
Speaker 2: So this could have gone way worse. It didn't, So
I don't know how you factor that into a grade,
but we'll do our best. Jay Crowder, Malik Beasley, Robin Lopez,
and AJ Green are all aboard via minimums. Joe Engle's gone,
Jevon Carter gone, West, Matthew's gone. I think that's pretty
much it. I didn't hit on any of the draft
stuff because Chris Livingston at number fifty eight, who interestingly
they signed to a four year deal. That's kind of fun.
We're seeing more of those for second rounders. Andre Jackson
comes a board for a twenty thirty second round pick.
He was number thirty six, and shock of all shocks,
the nasis Onikobo is back. He will he will return
and not go sign with a team that is trying
to poach you on us in a couple of years.
I miss anything there.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I still can't believe they got
both Jay Crowder and Molie Beasley on one year minimums
that aren't even one plus one, so they're one the
team's going to be reimbursed for, like the offset the
difference of the salary, because when you add the player option,
you have to pay out the full boat of it,
which is why Matt Ishbia received so much credit for
what he did at Vedix, so that's like, that's a
win from the team perspective, and you know, the player
option only does the player as solid Like it's not
to be the team but because if they're good, they're
gonna declude it anyway. Those are two players that could
really I would argue those are two players that could
techically still be a part of their closing five. I
know people pencil in Grayson Hallid, maybe Pac conditated to
that spot. It probably could more likely to be I
would say, but League Beasley that a jay Crowder is
because Jay Crowder the three is a little are at
the two rather it's a little weird. Yeah, but Week
basically comes in that is pure three point volume there. Clearly,
I don't know enough about Cliff Chris Livingston, but they're
clearly very high on him, and I like what they did. Again,
I wasn't a fan of the botenholes are firing, but
I liked that they're very clearly on this like two
to three year timeline where Chris Middleton and Giannis come
off the books right now at the same time, and
Brook Lopez comes off the year before. Drew Holliday comes
off the year before he has that that player option.
Bobby Portis comes off the same year as Giannis and
Chris Middleton Diddo for Pat Cottatin and so there now
it's not, I don't want to say it's fluid, but
like they're everyone in place is on like this same timeline,
and so you use the information that you have from
season by season to figure out what you need to do.
And I think some people will try and focus on
the absence of what he's eligible that Yannis won't sign
an extension. It just makes sense for him to wait
so he could tack on more years as we move forward.
I thought, given what limited tools they had aside from
the coaching change, which I just don't think it's a
guarantee to be a whole run. I think it helps
that Yann has wanted him. This might be the running
for not maybe not the best off season in the NBA,
but like, was it the most under the radar good
off season in the NBA.
Speaker 2: It feels like the biggest exhale, like the biggest relieved
exhale offseason for sure, because again, like Lopez was, was
kind of gone and then you're suddenly you're just I mean,
it's a little bit hyperbolic, but like if you believe
the Bucks are a top tier title threat, I think
without Brook Lopez, they're just not so like that that
just oh, thank god, Like, so we got at least
another year probably too. I mean, Lopez's age is a
real factor, but like you got another year or two
where where we're right back up there. I would expect
the Bucks to win more games than anyone in the
East in the regular season, just like they did last year.
And so I gave a B plus. I don't think
I said that, And the only reason it's not an
A is because I really don't know about the coaching thing,
and like we I don't think I factor that in
as heavily for a lot of other coaching changes. But
what we do know is that Buttonholzer has coached a
team to a title and has presided over really exceptional
regular seasons and has figured out how to make this
team work during the year so it can secure that
high seed. And then the playoff record is not just
that's why he's not back, Like that's that's it. There's
no guarantee Adrian Griffin is going to be any better
at that sort of stuff. So that's the only reason
the stakes are so high, because this is title or
nothing for this team, and you've got a guy that
that may or may not be an upgrade and that uncertainty,
Like I'm and then it's not a little unfair because
it's like, well, who should they have brought in that
would have definitely been an upgrade. I don't know who
that is, but I'm not sure Popovich would have done it. Well,
I don't know he slipped. Everyone likes to say, but yeah,
so it's a B plus. You could definitely talk me higher.
Speaker 1: But but that's try to I am a while not
having enough confidence in the coaching change because, as I
mentioned at the top, going with the guy that Yatiste
to Koupo Wads is valuable and you at least know
what you have in Buttenholzer, and that was the only
way for you to meaningfully improve your team was to
make the coaching change. So the fact that you had
I don't want to say the courage, but the gall
to do it. And then also I don't think Middleton's
deal he's making less so it was a given that
Lopez deal was not a given for them to pay, and.
Speaker 2: They had to come over the top, right, presumably they
had to just say, well, we were ready to spend X,
but now hmm, it's gonna have to be why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of teams wouldn't do that right, and
I want applaud ownership for it. But like you kept
this core together, you did. The other thing that I
think that's really important is aside from the coaching change,
which again some people would have made it after not
just this pass offseason, but the one before that. So
it's it was a move that other people would have made,
and I just we don't know enough about Adrian Griffin
as a head coach.
Speaker 3: That's the other thing.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend to be a whiz if
it was someone who I firmly believe should have kept
their job. And Mike Buttenholzer, the timing was awful, by
the way, the way like it trickled out that his
brother passed away. I hope the family's doing okay that
and the optics on that were just absolutely terrible. But
so you pay those contracts, but you also you didn't
overreact to what happened against the heat. Giannis dealt with
a back injury Middleton was not himself defensively for pretty
much all of last year. He eventually turned a corner offensively,
and just like the heat caught lightning in a bottle,
with some of their shooting, it's like it just felt
like a singularity what happened. If Giannis doesn't miss time
in that series, and if he's fully healthy, I'm picking
the Bucks again without any regrets. So the fact that
you kept this core together where I feel like Zach
Lowis said this, and it feels on the money of
the really good, really great teams. Whenever something goes wrong
in Milwaukee, like something basic like an early playoff exit
or an injury, it feels like the sky is falling.
Where doesn't always feel like that for everyone else. And
so the Bucks could have gone I don't think they
realistically didn't have these other options, but they certainly could
have looked at and said, well, we need to make
like an impulsive trade or we're certainly not gonna play
Brooke pay Brook Lopez. And the fact that they didn't,
and the fact that they again crowded league easily two
of the what five to seven best minimum flyers I
would think in the league, maybe two of the best
head because Phoenix has a shit ton of them. I
thought they had a great offseason relative to the to
the strictures which had within which they were working.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would agree, And I think, like,
I'm gonna talk this up like I had the higher
grade for them, but you actually did, like you talk
about options, and they didn't have alternatives, Like they had
to get Middleton right, and they had to get Lopez right,
and they had to nail multiple minimum signings, and they
just like because like if Middleton leaves, he just leaves,
and if Lopez leaves, he just leaves, and you're just
significantly worse in the most meaningful way because you go
from contender to not. So I think because they were
kind of like walking the tight rope with no net
and managed to make it across, I think that probably
you know that that the degree of difficulty or sort
of the stakes of failure were, you know, very different
for the Bucks than they were for a lot of
other teams.
Speaker 1: It will be interesting to see whether they are open
to putting their twenty twenty to zero or twenty thirty
first on the table for this group in the middle,
like if a bogged out about Dotovich becomes available or
so like someone like that makes a lot of sense
for them, or even a bow yacht if they can
get to the to the salary number. Because that's still
what's sort of unsettled here is like, Okay, you have
this timeline, how much are you willing to continue investing
at it? Right? I think?
Speaker 3: I mean it's still just you, honest Yannest. Just is
the timeline.
Speaker 2: So I wonder if if you could, if you think
he's gonna resign for the max and just be around
for five more years after this deal is done, like
you just keep you just keep punting on those draft picks, right,
like that's the only the only way to do it.
That's gonna do it, though, I think for this division,
do you have anything else to add? Or should I
take us out?
Speaker 1: Nope? Take us out?
Speaker 3: All right? Everybody? Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2: Remember to subscribe, rate review wherever you consume your podcast.
If you're watching us on YouTube, please subscribe there. Please
leave comments, join our discord, follow us on our socials
at Hardwood Knocks on Twitter and TikTok Hardwood Underscore Knocks
on Instagram. Tell your friends, tell your enemies by our merch.
We have links there in the YouTube description and the
podcast description. Give us five stars wherever you can do
that and just say good things, think good thoughts. How
about that we never say that. Just think good thoughts
about us and the success of the podcast.
Speaker 3: That would be cool if you.
Speaker 2: And as usual, we close with a shout out to
one and only Frank Milakina, newly re employed, and an
apologies to Chairy Downs.