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Speaker 1: What is up a fellow sick as I am Dan

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Valley coming at you with a second time Capitol podcast.

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I'm posting our twenty twenty three off season grades for

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every team in the East. We already posted the West

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and we went back into our regrades for the West.

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The regrades for the West will be coming later this week.

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So it's all one spot. If you want to go back,

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look through and see what Grant and I look through it,

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Listen to it, see what Grant and I said to

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kind of prep you for that podcast. That's why this

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is up. And also you deserve some bonus content just

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for audio, because there's a YouTube exclusive that went up

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on Tuesday that I would encourage everybody to go check out.

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He had a lot of work kind of editing it together,

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but Grant and I had a lot of fun doing it.

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So go check that out. But also enjoy what past

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Grant and Dan said. So that present day slash Future

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and Grants we have not recorded them. We'll have to

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probably walk back some things. There's at least one team

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that we ended up missing on completely. So hope you

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enjoy this. Let's get to it. Do you want to

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you want to start us off with the Southeast Atlanta Hawks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so just the basics here, in no particular order.

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Drafted Kobe Buffkin at fifteen, traded John Collins finally mercifully

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to the Jazz for for Rudy Gay in a future second, which, okay,

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we'll talk about that some more.

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Speaker 1: Trade exception they're not going to use. Yeah, I mentioned that.

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Speaker 2: This is why, this is why we need you to

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chime in, because I did not put the trade exception

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on my some To be fair, I think it's immaterial

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because they're not they're not going to use the twenty

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three million dollars traded player.

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Speaker 3: In some cases that would be material. That's a big

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you know, that's that's not a team.

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Speaker 1: Not for not for the Kings, of we're going to

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pay the tax, but not really right, We're going to

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pay the tax, but not really.

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Speaker 2: It's being a paying signed to John Tay Murray to

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an extension four years. The range is like I think

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I'm looking at it as like one hundred and fourteen million,

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but it can a little higher.

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Speaker 3: There's a player option on the last year there they had.

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Speaker 2: The Hawks had a complicated multi team trade where they

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got a bunch of guys, ty Ty Washington, who's mang Garuba?

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Ultimately they ended up with Patty Mills. Basically is what

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you need to know from all that, and unless like

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that's that's me, Wes Matthews. They signed for the minimum.

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Anything I missed there that you would you know, label

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as noteworthy. You kind of directed us towards some of

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the like broader issues that we should probably discuss about

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the Hawks, like what's the plan, how how willing are

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they to spend? And like where do they where do

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they think there? They are in the East, and did

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they do enough to you know, get there.

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Speaker 1: We know they botched the John Collins situation, and this

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was all done in service of, for the most part,

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getting out. Even if you think John Collins' deals in

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net negative, which is fair to believe at this point,

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as much as we have conviction that he is still

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a good basketball player, this was all done in service

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of just ducking the tax and that always rubs me

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the wrong way. Now are they good enough to pay

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the tax? I don't know. I do think they hit

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a home run with the de Jonte Murray extension. However,

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because of that extension, you're now sort of rolling these

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same problems in the next offseason where it's all right

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with Trey and Murray making a little bit more and

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we have Bagdanovitch on the books, and we have Clint Capella,

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and there's gonna be DeAndre Hunter too, and what's gonna

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happen with some of these guys who are extension ledgeable

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that will be thinking about their next deals. This feels

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like a team that's going to be straddling the luxury

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tax line, trying to play that game a little too long.

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And it feels like I look at this roster and

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believe so all they've kind of done is kicked the

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can and next summer will be talking about, oh did

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they dun't Clint Capella because like they have on Yaka

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Kungu coming up. I that all aside. I'm not the

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whole John they they botched the John Collins situation. I

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don't if you want to look at the the TPE

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as like this massive win for them to if they

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want to make an acquisition at the beginning of next summer.

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Maybe not. It probably won't be this season. Sure, I

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don't think that they are any better than they were

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at the star art of this offseting you really have

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to believe that Kobe Buffkin is gonna come in and

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be great, and I do like his abilities to finish

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her at the rim. Where does he fit in to

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this guard rotation? Just so you have Trey Younga, de

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Jonte Murray and Ed Bardonovich. So I was thoroughly unimpressed

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with their offseason. I don't know what moves they left

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on the table, but for them to identify that their

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biggest goal was to not get better but to upkeep

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their books. If I'm a fan, it's just really disappointed

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because they didn't even chase upgrades. And then the final

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thing I'll say is the same the maybe saving grace

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is they've been linked to Pascal Siakam, and so it

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seems like they're willing to give up Adrian Griffin, AJ Griffin,

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excuse me, and DeAndre Hunter and stuff to get Siakam.

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Maybe that would change the context of the grade, although

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it would be you know, they would be sacrificing a

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lot of floor spacing there for a team that has

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to work on its outside shot profile already.

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Speaker 2: How much so the John Collins thing is interesting to

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me because you know that was his market value turned

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out to be at the time they decided to trade him,

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or the time they decided, you know, they were able

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to or had to not very good Like Rudy Gay

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in a second, that's that's not great. How much do

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you hold the fact that like Collins was even on

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the team long enough for his value to decline to

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that point against the Hawks for this offseason, because you

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know what I mean, like, there was a time where

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probably they could have traded him for a first or

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more than that, and they didn't. And this will come

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up in a lot of other teams too. It's you know,

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did did the move they made with Collins? This you

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know this past month, Like that's that's not a good move,

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but it looks way worse because of what theoretically they

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could have traded him for. I just don't know how

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to kind of weigh that, So I wonder how you

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think about it.

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Speaker 1: I think because we're talking, at least to some extent

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about a previous front office regime that decided to marginalize

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him with some of the talent that was coming in,

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I don't know how much hold it against them, but

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this front office definitely had a strong voice during the

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middle of the season, and so to not move John

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Collins at the trade deadline and then settle for this

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where it was a salary dumb like it was. It

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was just a straight salary dumb for them. I feel

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like that's a pretty big whiff yeah on there. And

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they didn't have as much time, but they had the

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same information that Travis Schlank was working with for all

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these years, and they just the Hawks kept putting people

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on top of him in the offensive pecking order, which

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has never made sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to get to the grade for this team, Yeah,

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where'd you end up with them? So the Hawks were

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five hundred last year. They to me, they did not

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get better. You said this, So it's a D plus

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and I think it's probably it could be lower if

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not for the Murray extension, which is, you know, that's

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not a it's not an insignificant amount of money, but

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I think it's it's less than I didn't think a

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Murray extension was realistic.

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Speaker 3: And we've talked about this a little bit.

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Speaker 2: So to get it done and get it done at

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a number that you know is at least reasonable and

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might actually be like a objectively good deal like value wise,

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that bumps them up from what could have been a

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D or you know, a D minus even I think.

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Speaker 1: To me, yeah, I went with a D plus as well.

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I wanted to go lower. But I like, I think

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the Buffkin pick was reasonable because I like him. I

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just don't know his path to succeeding in Atlanta, which

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sort of muddied it for me. But I really the

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Jon thing Murray sension, like like you said, I did

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not expect that to happen. I just assumed he was

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going to hit the open market, yeah, which could bring

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us to the Boston or not. The Charlotte Hornet staying

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in the division. The big notes for them, drafted Brandon

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Miller at number two, drafted Nick Smith junior at number

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twenty seven. They Miles Bridges signed his qualifying offer. He'll

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now be a restrict unrestricted free agent next summer, and

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he has an implicit note trade clause his bird rights

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will not transfer if they decide to trade him. They

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did trade number thirty four, number thirty nine for number

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thirty one James Notch, and they signed Lamellow. Despite the

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reporting on this, it's a five year, two hundred and

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five point nine million dollar extension. There are no player

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options and there is language that can bring the total

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value to thirty five percent of the cap, but it's

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not worth thirty five percent of the cap right off

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the bat, as was initially reported. The other notes on

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them is sort of what's yet to be done? Kelly

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ubridg Junior remains unsigned, and then PJ. Washington RFA he

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remains unsigned. And then in so far as this matters,

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I don't think it can, but it's a note. Michael

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Jordan sold the team to Gabe Plotkin and Rick Snahl

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for about three billion dollars, so he is no longer

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the majority owner of the Charlotte Hornets. Any sort of

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prevailing themes for you coming off of their offseason.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about prevailing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of disappointing. I guess is the

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word that comes to mind.

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Speaker 3: I do think.

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Speaker 2: I think the sale of the team is a you know,

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ownership is such a big deal, and what we know

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from the last you know, several years, is that Michael

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Jordan as an owner has not presided over a team

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that has won a lot of games or made a

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lot of decisions that people around the league would say, oh,

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you know, they really got like look what they did there.

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There's not a lot of praise I don't think for

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sort of any managerial aspect of the Hornets for as

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long as he's been in charge. So I think that's

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that's a real positive potentially, even though you don't have

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any idea about the willingness of the new ownership rich

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Nong gab plot can I forget if you mentioned them

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to spend or like who they're going to bring in

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to make decisions.

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Speaker 3: That's all kind of up in the air.

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Speaker 2: But when you know that the status quo is as

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bad as it is, like almost any change feels like

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an upgrade just by default. So that's about the only

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and I think just tracking back up through some of

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the real big points, I'm okay with the LaMelo extension.

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I just don't know what else they were going to

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do there. It seemed like that was just going to

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be the going rate. And he's been an all star,

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he hasn't had much around him, you know, supporting talent wise,

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so it's hard to be sure this is a great deal.

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And I think the other problem is he will probably

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continue to not have a lot around him in terms

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of supporting talent, so you might get one or two

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years into this and still really not be sure that

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that was worth it. But you're kind of stuck with that,

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so no problem there. Drafting this is super risky and

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stupid because rookies in the draft is who knows what's

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gonna happen. We won't get answers forever. But I think

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drafting Brandon Miller at two is a massive mistake. I

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think Scoot Henderson was to pick there. I don't care

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if LaMelo is on the team and you've committed to

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him with this level.

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Speaker 3: Of years and dollars, so I won't get to the

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grade yet.

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Speaker 2: But I'm disappointed in like the main move, which was

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the draft, disappointed that this team does not project to

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be like much. I guess they'll be better because Bridges

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will be back and LaMelo maybe will be healthy, but

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like not in a meaningful way, so it's kind of

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left me pretty.

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Speaker 3: Empty their offseason. The Miller thing, again is just that's

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just there's people.

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Speaker 2: The knock on him is there's not superstar upside, and

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I think Henderson just like he's got superstar superstar upside,

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like falling out of his pockets.

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Speaker 3: Like it's just it's everywhere.

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Speaker 1: I think that's the biggest thing to dig them for

241
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at this point. I think the La Mellow extensions fine,

242
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,120
it's probably a win for the team that they didn't

243
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get a player option in that or that LaMelo didn't

244
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get a player option option. Excuse me. And you're gonna

245
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be happy to pay him the full boat if he

246
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qualifies for the thirty five percent backs, because that means

247
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he's everything that you need him to be. I also,

248
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,279
you know the Miles Bridges stuff. He has ten games

249
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left to serve on his suspension for pleading no contest

250
00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:35,000
to fell Aty domestic violence charges. I don't know what

251
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,279
from the beat, just the strictly basketball perspective, as callous

252
00:11:38,279 --> 00:11:40,720
as that sounds, to make that transition, I don't actually

253
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know what else they were supposed to do with him.

254
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How do you pay him real money after he wasn't

255
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,919
with your team in the previous year. And so I

256
00:11:47,919 --> 00:11:50,600
don't know that I actually could fault them for not

257
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having Miles Bridges on a long term deal. And now

258
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they're he's going to be a UFA and they can't

259
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really get value for him on the trade market. So

260
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I didn't factor that in too much. And even the PJ.

261
00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:03,399
Washington delay, I don't know what necessarily the weight is,

262
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,240
what's the number being tossed around. That's there's a level

263
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of incompleteness to their offseason, But I think that the

264
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meat and potatoes of their offseason was making the decision

265
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to choose Brandon Miller over Scoot Henderson, who might be

266
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,200
a better fit. But when you're at that position of

267
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,399
the draft, when you're at this position in your development,

268
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,279
you don't go with the better depth chart fit. You

269
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go with the player who has higher upside, and that's Scoot.

270
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And so I was pretty harsh on them. I gave

271
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,120
them a D for my grade because I'm that big

272
00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:35,440
of a believer that Scoot Henderson is going to be

273
00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:38,080
this generational point guard for the Like if you told

274
00:12:38,159 --> 00:12:40,879
me right now, I could have John Morand or Scoot Henderson, Like,

275
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I'm gonna go with Scoot Henderson. That's how much of

276
00:12:42,919 --> 00:12:45,080
a believer. And so there's very much eye of the

277
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,039
beholder stuff going on here, and I don't I want

278
00:12:47,039 --> 00:12:51,559
to make it clear the free agency process any trades,

279
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:53,440
I don't think they missed out on anything. I don't

280
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think they whipped on anything in the free agency market yet,

281
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,639
but the fact that the PJ. Washington stuff is still

282
00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:01,919
floating around out there and they're playing either playing hardball

283
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,320
or what are they waiting for? Here? Are they exploring

284
00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,919
side and trade scenarios that we haven't heard about. I

285
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,960
just it's a D because they're so unfinished. And I

286
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,000
think the big thing here for me is that grade

287
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,120
A lower is basically you should have went with Scoot.

288
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

289
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Speaker 2: I don't have a lot different to say other than

290
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I originally had it as a D minus and then

291
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,159
when you said D and I switched it to a

292
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,960
D as I was thinking about the ownership thing, which

293
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,720
is a positive, and then I went back to D

294
00:13:25,759 --> 00:13:27,720
minus because you said D just to be different from you.

295
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,799
So we're very much in the same range there. So

296
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D minus for me, I would just.

297
00:13:32,519 --> 00:13:35,240
Speaker 1: Go I will say this will be and we'll eventually

298
00:13:35,279 --> 00:13:38,159
do our. It'll probably later, since I'm gonna try and

299
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,960
take some time off and a little bit. It'll be

300
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,000
fascinating to go back and look at how this team

301
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,039
does in our regrades next offseason.

302
00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very That's the thing that's the risk,

303
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,200
right is like maybe Brandon Miller is just really good

304
00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:51,840
right away and Scoot struggles a little bit like this

305
00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:54,799
is the thing. This is probably the well we've only

306
00:13:54,799 --> 00:13:57,200
done two but for quite a while. This is gonna

307
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,879
be the grade that I'm gonna feel like least comfortable

308
00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:04,000
about because it's based on like such an unknown, which

309
00:14:04,039 --> 00:14:06,679
is the quality of a rookie drafted one spot after

310
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,559
another's it's like, we're not gonna it's it's risky, all right,

311
00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:14,799
Miami Heat, that's our next team in this division. The

312
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,519
basics here, drafted Heimihawk as junior at number eighteen, treated

313
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,919
Victor Oldepot to the Thunder for a couple of future

314
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,840
seconds salary dump essentially lost Max Strus to the Caves

315
00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:29,200
structured as a sign and trade for a future second lost.

316
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,679
Gave Vincent to the Lakers for was like three and

317
00:14:31,799 --> 00:14:34,200
three for thirty three basically or three for thirty two.

318
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:38,279
So lost two starters there. Kevin Love is back two

319
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,320
years just under eight million with the player option. Got

320
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,039
Josh Richardson for the minimum and Thomas Bryant for the

321
00:14:44,039 --> 00:14:48,840
minimum notably, and then we just don't know what's going

322
00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:51,200
to happen with the Damian Lollward stuff. So this this

323
00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,720
we've said a little bit of incompleteness for the Hornets,

324
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,519
but like, this entire thing is incomplete for the Heat

325
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,559
right now, because if they get Dame then everything changes.

326
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,159
Speaker 3: But that that's where they are now. Do I miss

327
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:02,519
anything there or anything.

328
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,799
Speaker 2: That you want to you want to hit on as

329
00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:08,279
like a you know, just jump right into you know

330
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,559
what you think the big issues are for this offseason.

331
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: You mentioned gave Vincent left for three years and thirty three, right.

332
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,440
I didn't hear that one, So yeah, yeah, I mean

333
00:15:15,559 --> 00:15:17,679
this is it's it's a level of incomplete but as

334
00:15:17,679 --> 00:15:20,120
of right now, so yes, there's an incomplete a TVD.

335
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,840
Let's the other Damian Lillard stuff goes here, And I

336
00:15:22,879 --> 00:15:24,840
don't want to spoil the plot too much, but how

337
00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:27,399
do you give this team anything more than a D

338
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,200
minus right now? Like I like Hobby Hawks a lot,

339
00:15:30,679 --> 00:15:33,639
but they cut costs by looking at what they did

340
00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:35,000
with that, and that's fine. Old Deep was probably not

341
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,480
gonna play the way that package was structured. Though, By

342
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,039
the way, it's just like, oh, they gave up twenty

343
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,360
nine and thirty second round picks. It's like, are you

344
00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:47,240
paying an advanced fee on adjusting the protections on that

345
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,759
first round pick that's owed to Okac with the Damian Lillard,

346
00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:53,679
Trey goes through just because the value that Okaysee got

347
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:57,440
for Damas Bertad's taking on his money is like, I

348
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,320
think it's worse than the value they got for taking

349
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,440
on not like a one guaranteed year of victor O

350
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:05,120
Ladipo to get those distant seconds. And so I just

351
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,000
you lost two players who were monster parts of your

352
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,720
playoff rotation. You can say that Duncan Robinson's offensive renaissance

353
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:18,480
during the postseason helps you offset Max Struce's departure. You're

354
00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:20,639
not a team that was like an exceptional floors basing

355
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:22,360
team to begin with, even though you're shooting, did kind

356
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,519
of take up towards the end of the year. And

357
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:25,759
Max Strews is a better defender than Duncan Robinson. So

358
00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:28,559
you've put strained on that part of your rotation. Now

359
00:16:28,559 --> 00:16:31,840
you've also put strain on probably your offense and then

360
00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:34,600
your defense by like, Okay, Gabe Vincent is gone, and

361
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:37,879
there's Kyle Lowry's there, he's getting older, Tyler hero is

362
00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:40,559
gonna be healthy. You haven't alleviated. I would say the

363
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,159
burden on Jimmy Butler and bam Anebayo at all defensively,

364
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,320
let alone when we're looking at offensive creation. That's still

365
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,360
the fact that they have Tyler Hero That doesn't bug

366
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,120
me as much. And I think Kyle Lowry kind of

367
00:16:51,519 --> 00:16:53,440
didn't turn it on, but like he wasn't this train

368
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:57,159
wreck for all of last season. The Josh richardson Neil

369
00:16:57,399 --> 00:16:59,200
that was actually probably my favorite part of their offseason.

370
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,679
I can't believe they got for the minimum. I just

371
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,279
I look at this team. They were a playing team

372
00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:06,640
to begin with. They had to strike lightning in a bottle,

373
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,519
and good for them. They clearly we joke about it,

374
00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:12,039
but they are hashtag built different. When you get to

375
00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:14,559
the postseason, that's all great. You still need to eat

376
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:17,039
innings in the regular season, and you weren't good enough

377
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:18,720
to win the title this year. That was very much

378
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:22,359
clear when you went up against the Nuggets. Again, it's

379
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,319
an incomplete but you bet a lot on the idea

380
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,200
that this player who is not yours yet is going

381
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,920
to be yours soon. And the money that they let

382
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,279
these guys leave for was money they could have paid,

383
00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:37,759
and it was eminently reasonable from a team perspective, And

384
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:40,880
again I wanted to give them an F just because

385
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:42,799
you just made the finals and now there's like this

386
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,559
huge pullback. But I actually like Kamai hawk As and

387
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:47,440
I really think I don't know how much you can

388
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,319
wait to sit like Josh Richardsond at the minimum is

389
00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:50,559
one of the best signings of the summer.

390
00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. I did give him

391
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,240
an F, but it's F slash incomplete just because if

392
00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:58,480
Damon Lillard is on this roster and it doesn't cost

393
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,720
you anybody that you really project to be a huge

394
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:02,640
rotation piece other than I guess Tyler Hero.

395
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,839
Speaker 3: Actually, I mean, I don't know how high.

396
00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 2: I don't know how about this as a thought exercise,

397
00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:13,119
say they get Damian Lillard for the rumored package, which

398
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,000
is they get a bunch of picks together, they move

399
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:17,319
Hero for another pick, and then that's the package.

400
00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,759
Speaker 3: You give up, Yovich, you give up who else is going?

401
00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:22,400
Speaker 2: I can't even remember what the what the parameters are

402
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,880
like if if they get Damian Lillard in a package,

403
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,240
you know, for what is the basic idea of what

404
00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:29,960
we think that trade will eventually look like?

405
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:32,079
Speaker 3: Where are we are?

406
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 2: We?

407
00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:34,720
Speaker 3: Are we at a B? Or are we at an A?

408
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 2: Are we because the team is I mean, you've blet

409
00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:41,440
if you so theoretically you add Lillard, you've lost Vincent

410
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,119
strus in Hero probably right, I mean definitely those you're

411
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,880
not getting the other two back in Hero seems to

412
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,079
have to go to a third team to get this done.

413
00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:51,400
You're definitely better on the top end.

414
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,759
Speaker 3: But man like Josh Richardson agree great signing. Suddenly Josh

415
00:18:55,839 --> 00:18:56,599
Richardson is like.

416
00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 2: Really important for the right does he I don't know

417
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,920
if he starts, but he's gonna play. He's in their

418
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,720
top eight for sure. And that's I don't know, that's

419
00:19:05,839 --> 00:19:08,720
that's that's tough. I what I guess, what I'm saying

420
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:11,720
is if you get Dame, I'm not sure you'd get

421
00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:14,519
an A for the offseason still, you know, because.

422
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,640
Speaker 1: Like you could have. I mean, in theory, there was

423
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,799
nothing stopping you from keeping these guys and then turning

424
00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:21,759
around in trading for day. This was this was a

425
00:19:21,799 --> 00:19:24,279
cost cutting maneuver. That's why they, for the most part,

426
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:27,000
I would imagine let those guys go. That's why you

427
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:29,599
paid to get rid of Victor Oladipo. Is that you

428
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,039
wanted the flexibility. What do they what do we have

429
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,200
about relative to the to the tax next season. I

430
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,960
should look at that, but like that was just a

431
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,759
severe cost cutting maneuver by their part. Maybe it all

432
00:19:39,799 --> 00:19:43,039
works out because you have Dame, but they're so there

433
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:46,279
were they seven seven million into the tax. I think

434
00:19:46,279 --> 00:19:47,799
it looks like a're by looking at the wrong season.

435
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:50,279
Speaker 2: I got a thirty four million over the cap team

436
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:52,640
salary of one seventy with the tax line at one

437
00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:55,839
sixty five point two. So yeah, they're five five million

438
00:19:55,839 --> 00:19:58,519
plus into the tax based on what I'm looking at.

439
00:19:58,759 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 1: So they didn't want to pay a high tax spill

440
00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:02,839
for this team, which is that's their prerogative. I just

441
00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:04,920
that's a fair question. I didn't even think of that.

442
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:06,680
Is what happens if in when they do pull off

443
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,200
the Damian Miller trade. Maybe a lot of it goes

444
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,559
into are you not giving up as many picks or

445
00:20:10,599 --> 00:20:14,519
swops as we're talking about, or are you keeping Hama Hawkes? Perhaps?

446
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,640
But yeah, I would say, based on the package that

447
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,680
we think it would take to get them, I think

448
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,759
you could elevate them to like a B plus. Maybe

449
00:20:21,799 --> 00:20:23,559
you can't just give them a flat A for that though.

450
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 3: No, I don't think they can get there.

451
00:20:25,519 --> 00:20:28,759
Speaker 1: Uh, do we want to move on to the Orlando Magic.

452
00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 4: Yes.

453
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,759
Speaker 1: Cliff notes on them, they drafted Anthony Black at number six,

454
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,279
They drafted Jet Howard at number eleven. They traded number

455
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:39,279
thirty six Andre Jackson Junior to Milwaukee for cash and

456
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,039
a twenty thirty second rounder. They signed Joe Ingles to

457
00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:44,440
a two year, twenty two million dollar contract that'll be

458
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,680
a team option on year two. And they re signed

459
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,960
Mo Wagner to a fully guaranteed two year, sixteen million

460
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,200
dollar contract. They also did as far as anybody cares,

461
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,039
they they wave bubul So it's a gut punch to

462
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,279
everyone except Phoenix Suns fans. What do you think coming

463
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:01,039
out of their off season?

464
00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 3: Grant again like, we've just been killing these teams. But

465
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:05,599
I don't.

466
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,799
Speaker 2: I don't love Anthony Black at six. I don't love

467
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,799
Jet Howard at eleven. I think this is a harder

468
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:17,400
one for me, though, because the counter I'm not giving

469
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,119
this team a good grade.

470
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 3: I'll just say that the.

471
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 2: Counter is like, what what should they have done? Or

472
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,279
like what opportunities were there that they didn't pursue? And

473
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:28,079
that's a harder question to answer. So I'll concede that

474
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,720
this is a little I don't know, maybe I'm asking

475
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:33,720
too much, but this was a team that had to me,

476
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,480
and we've harped on this forever, like pretty clear needs

477
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,720
you need shooting from some of your guards.

478
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 3: Anthony Black does not do that. Jet Howard I think can.

479
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 2: But I mean again, like he was the number eleven pick,

480
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,640
how much is he going to play? Almost certainly he's

481
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,400
going to be like a net negative contributor to winning.

482
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,559
And this is a team the magic I think that

483
00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:57,240
we both believe, just based on the talent that's already

484
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,759
in place, should definitely be like in the playoff mix,

485
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,720
I think we both expect them to get better.

486
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:04,039
Speaker 3: Tell me if you disagree.

487
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:09,079
Speaker 2: So I just I was uninspired by almost everything they did.

488
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,799
You can talk yourself into Ingles being someone that makes

489
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:15,960
sense as like a pick and roll operator that will

490
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,720
make open threes. I'm not sure, you know, that's just

491
00:22:20,759 --> 00:22:23,160
not the same thing as finding like where were they

492
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,720
on VanVleet. You know, maybe that just they just weren't

493
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,559
going to get there with the with the salary.

494
00:22:27,599 --> 00:22:29,759
Speaker 1: But they don't need a point guard even though they

495
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,240
drafted one they needed.

496
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: All they need is someone like six or five or

497
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:37,759
under that can make an open shot, that would be

498
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,640
that would be my my advice. So I guess I'll

499
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,720
I'll just say this is another D for me. I

500
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:49,000
just don't think a team that had every reason to

501
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,799
try to get better in very obvious areas, I just

502
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:55,960
don't think you can reward them for not doing that.

503
00:22:56,759 --> 00:23:01,240
So if if Black, you know, streamlines a shot and

504
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:03,839
he's obviously super talented at like basically everything else, but

505
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,920
if he comes it comes along more quickly than I

506
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,119
expect or of Howard is just like a knockdown guy,

507
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,240
then maybe that changes. But as of now, the Magic,

508
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,119
just to me, did not get meaningfully better. And I think,

509
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,599
you know, they were one of the teams that had

510
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,400
the opportunity to do that because they did there was

511
00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:22,519
you know, time there where they had cap space and

512
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:23,799
there were not a lot of teams with that, and

513
00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:25,640
they had pretty clear needs and they didn't they didn't

514
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,160
use that space to fill them.

515
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: Maybe I've gone soft. I went with a C here.

516
00:23:30,519 --> 00:23:32,839
I actually really like Anthony Black, I hate his fit

517
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,160
in Orlando. But as I talked about with Charlotte in

518
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,519
the an attempt to be semi consistent is are the

519
00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:41,799
Magic at the point where they should be drafting for

520
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:43,519
for fit. At that point, I mean, who is the pick.

521
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:45,599
I actually really liked Taylor Hendrix, maybe even more than

522
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,400
Anthony Black. You already have all these other forwards. Would

523
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,160
I've got with Taylor Hendricks. If I've then I would

524
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,960
have considered it. But I think he Black has the

525
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,599
higher upside as someone who profiles as this ball handler

526
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,680
and look shooting. You can get it later and you

527
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,440
can surround him with shooting. And you do have Markel

528
00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:02,480
Foltz going into the final year of his deal. You

529
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:04,400
only know what the future is gonna hold. Cole Anthony

530
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,079
he I think he's extension eligible this summer. So I'm

531
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,599
open to the idea that maybe it works. And you

532
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:12,119
don't have a lot of wing sized players on this team,

533
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,799
like true wing sized players, Andony Black is one you

534
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:16,559
could mix and max some of those positions and what

535
00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:19,000
he's gonna bring for you defensively to a team that

536
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:21,799
was basically they were like eleventh in points thought per

537
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,079
possession for most of last season. When you filter out

538
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,400
Garber's time, that's a big deal. I don't know how

539
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,039
much better the offense gets with Jet Howard right away,

540
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,440
I will say I would have went with Grady Dick.

541
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:33,279
Speaker 2: I was just gonna ask you that, like, why not

542
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,640
Grady Dick there? When your shooting needs are so pronounced.

543
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: I consider going C minus D because I actually thought,

544
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,400
get the shooter that has some size there. I even

545
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,160
thought about, is this a team? And I don't know

546
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,640
if I'm kind of letting what we saw from summer

547
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,599
league color this from me? Is this a team that

548
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,480
should have if they wanted to go to guard route

549
00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:50,559
like Caseon Wallace would have made a lot of sense here,

550
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,960
but he didn't have a great summer league performance, And

551
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,799
if you wanted someone with more size, I don't know

552
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:57,960
what they missed out on. So it's like it's based

553
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
purely off the draft. They did nothing. I don't think

554
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,400
to move their needle substantially, at least in the immediate term.

555
00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:06,039
Long term, I'm open to this idea that, wow, Anthony

556
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:08,640
Black would be really good. They'll surround him Frauds and

557
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,720
Palla bag Caro with a bunch of shooting. Or is

558
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:13,720
it even a matter of those three players Wendell Carter Junior,

559
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,319
who's probably about a plus shooter at his position, throw

560
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,279
one more shooter out of the court. Withever, that lineup

561
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:19,880
is just going a hum. It's not gonna be false.

562
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:22,279
It's pay not gonna be Gary Harris in that instance.

563
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,319
So maybe it's Jalen Suggs who develops as a shooter.

564
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,319
They did not inspire me this offseason, but I don't

565
00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:29,799
think they missed out on anything. And I like the

566
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:31,880
idea of look, Joe Ingles won't least face the floor.

567
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,160
He's probably overrated as a pick and roll player at

568
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,920
this point. He will turn the ball over a lot

569
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,799
in those situations. But it's a one year deal. And

570
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,400
even though I saw some people were just like nepotism

571
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,319
of Wagner, he got sixteen million guaranteed. He was really

572
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,480
useful for them for a lot of last season. I

573
00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:48,839
think that's a tick overpaid. But if you want this

574
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,119
team to eventually make this wing, you need some of

575
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,200
these salaries that you can stack together. And if you

576
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,680
want to look at it through that vein, nothing they

577
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,119
did inspired me, and I'm so curious to see how

578
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,359
Anthony Black fits in right off the back. I just

579
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,880
don't think they did anything damning. If there was a

580
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,599
move where it was oh Fred van Vleet would have

581
00:26:04,599 --> 00:26:07,000
gone to the Magic for X. Like I, this is

582
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,839
not the team that I would have said, give Fred

583
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,839
van Vleet the two year max because they didn't have

584
00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:12,839
that CAS space available. They would have had to create it,

585
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,759
and so no one within the numbers that they had.

586
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:18,720
Of consequence, seems like they were going to go there.

587
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's fair. You're you're making me want to move

588
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,559
this up. I'm gonna move it up to a D plus.

589
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:25,039
You've sold me, so you're at a D plus some

590
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,200
marketings down. We're trying to hold ourselves accountable.

591
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, this time next year.

592
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 3: All right.

593
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,279
Speaker 2: As a favor to you, since you're sick, I would

594
00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:34,279
all do the Washington Wizards summary here because there's a

595
00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:34,920
lot going on.

596
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 3: If we're ready to move on here.

597
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: Yes, it's also your turn to be fair.

598
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: Well, I appreciate it, I said, Dan, as a favor

599
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:44,000
to you, and we're gonna leave it as that. Not

600
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,559
that I forgot already what order we're going in. Okay,

601
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:49,599
busy offseason for the Wizards. I guess you'd start with

602
00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:52,160
they fired Tommy Shepherd, so and they changed the top

603
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,119
decision makers. It's always tricky to gauge. This is a

604
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,720
little easier for me than judging like what an ownership

605
00:26:57,799 --> 00:27:00,240
change means. But it's still kind of like what what

606
00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:03,720
does this really suggest? Although the Wizards definitely started acting

607
00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:07,559
very differently once they had a new person making decisions,

608
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:10,799
Michael Winger is that man. So Bradley Beal gone to

609
00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:14,000
the Suns for four first round swaps, six seconds, Chris

610
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:16,920
Paul Andry Shammitt and some cash. Paul then flipped to

611
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,759
the Warriors for Jordan Poole, Patrick Baldwin junior, Ryan Rollins

612
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:22,519
and a like joke of a twenty thirty first round

613
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:24,680
pick that has the top twenty protections.

614
00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:27,599
Speaker 1: Is that one of the worst first round picks to

615
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,039
be acquired in Like, what's I'm trying to remember what

616
00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:32,240
was the last top twenty protected first round pick that

617
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:32,720
was traded?

618
00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:36,519
Speaker 2: I I'm terrible at remembering this stuff, but it's there

619
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:38,759
can't have been many that were like less valuable.

620
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: I put them in my trade articles all the time.

621
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,200
I'm like, let's just top twenty two protect this to

622
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,799
make it seem like it's a real I don't remember

623
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:47,119
the last one that was so if anyone remembers, get at.

624
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 2: Us, because well, because this can't roll over because it's

625
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,319
so far in the future, so if it doesn't convey,

626
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,480
it turns into seconds or just goes away.

627
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:58,559
Speaker 1: So like the Hornets had that top eighteen protected one

628
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:00,240
at one point, but I think that kept rolling over

629
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:02,799
and the picks where by other protections were loosened a

630
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:04,960
little bit, So this is exceedingly worse.

631
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,759
Speaker 2: Also, a twenty seven second round pick, which is I

632
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:10,720
think probably objectively a more valuable asset somehow than a

633
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,559
top twenty for first burrender from twenty thirty also traded

634
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,519
Chris aaps Porzingis essentially got back Tias Jones, dini Ol Gallinari,

635
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,279
Mike Muscala, and then number thirty five pick. Then traded

636
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:25,519
Monte Morris to Detroit for a twenty twenty seven second rounder.

637
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,799
Love that on Detroit's side, We'll talk about that at

638
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:33,079
some point. Drafted Blall Coolabali sold number fifty seven to

639
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,079
the Warriors for two million dollars. That's a good piece

640
00:28:35,079 --> 00:28:38,400
of business. Resign Kyle Kuzma to a four year deal

641
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,200
that I'm calling ninety million, just because it seems like

642
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,720
some of the escalators and other incentives can move it higher.

643
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,119
But it's it's at least going to be ninety. So

644
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:50,559
very busy offseason for the Wizards. Revamped the entire team,

645
00:28:50,839 --> 00:28:55,480
changed directions, much overdue, but finally did it. I love

646
00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:58,799
this offseason for them. Did I miss anything? Do you

647
00:28:58,839 --> 00:28:59,720
feel differently?

648
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:00,839
Speaker 3: Is there?

649
00:29:01,119 --> 00:29:04,039
Speaker 2: Does the Kuzma contract bother you? If that's the only

650
00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:05,880
like negative thing you could really point to. I think,

651
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,839
in my opinion, I did we have the negative?

652
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,799
Speaker 1: Did we have the Monte Morris trade in there? They

653
00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:10,319
did so much?

654
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,519
Speaker 3: Could really keep trying for a twenty twenty seven second

655
00:29:12,519 --> 00:29:12,799
to the pit.

656
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,319
Speaker 1: I thought they sold a little low on him, and

657
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:17,799
I know they have some really nice sized traded player

658
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:20,200
exceptions floating around now. They created a nine point four

659
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,759
to one for Monte Morris, they created a twelve point

660
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:25,359
four million dollars one for Persingias. They got I think

661
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:26,960
like a five and a half million dollar one or

662
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,880
something out of Bradley Beal trade. I just thought Monte Morris,

663
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,000
I know Wizards fans didn't really like him like I

664
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,799
thought he would be worth more than just like this

665
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,640
second round pick. So I thought they sold a little low.

666
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,160
The Kuzma deal's fine. It's four for ninety with twelve

667
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:40,799
million dollars in incentives that could bring it up to

668
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:43,359
one oh two. He is not. Is Kyle Kuzma on

669
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,720
this team past the February trade deadline?

670
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,759
Speaker 2: No, And that's why it's kind of fine for me

671
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:50,039
because the number is totally tradeable and he's still had

672
00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:52,799
a We talk all the time about asset preservation like

673
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:54,119
this is this to me?

674
00:29:54,279 --> 00:29:55,039
Speaker 3: Is what that is?

675
00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: Like?

676
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: They can definitely move him. You get a first for Kuzma,

677
00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:00,480
like at that number, I think pretty easily.

678
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,359
Speaker 1: So I loved even down to swinging on Balakola Bali, whereas, hey,

679
00:30:06,559 --> 00:30:08,079
you're in the infancy of your rebo, go with the

680
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,480
he's raw on offense, but he showed some real flashes

681
00:30:10,519 --> 00:30:12,680
in Summer League, and if he hits like he might

682
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,759
be your north star, he might be. I don't know

683
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,640
that you could have said that about Jarris Walker or

684
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,640
Taylor Hendrix was still on the board at that point.

685
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,680
So I applaud basically everything they did. And I know

686
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,920
some people were taken aback by how little they got

687
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,079
for Bradley Beal, sending him to a team that had

688
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:31,079
no first round picks to offer. That's on Tommy Sheppard

689
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,640
and ted Leonsis to be clear, who was ragging about

690
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,200
that no trade lost for Bradley Bual. That's what forced

691
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,160
their hand to make the decision to go this route.

692
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,759
There is real value in there, and I think some

693
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:44,839
of the stuff we could quibble over did they give

694
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,640
up too little for Monte? Like did they get too

695
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,160
little for Monte Morris? Okay? Even porzingis that last front

696
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,960
office held on to him for too long, like you

697
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:53,680
just weren't in the I don't know who was gonna

698
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,279
pay him this summer if he had opted out. It's like,

699
00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:58,039
maybe they could have played hard ball a little bit

700
00:30:58,079 --> 00:31:00,319
more there. But if you don't view his already a

701
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:03,319
programmed and there weren't better offers out there. But I

702
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:05,440
could say, I could you could wonder, Okay, well, why

703
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,200
didn't they kind of play a little bit more difficult there?

704
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,960
Like why was he just given up so readily for

705
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,920
such a low price point? I guess you could also say,

706
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:15,720
as someone who is not high on Jordan Poole, would

707
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,079
you have been better off just with Chris Paul's expiring contract?

708
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,279
You want the bite at the apple of Jordan Poole

709
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:22,519
for a fake first round pick, Although if the Warriors

710
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:24,680
can may that first round pick. Both teams. We'll be

711
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,400
happy because it means that the Warriors are still good

712
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,079
all the way out there and the Wizards get the

713
00:31:28,079 --> 00:31:30,920
sextra first round pick. So I went with a B

714
00:31:31,039 --> 00:31:33,079
plus for what they did, just because there were some

715
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,079
minor quibbles that I had, But this was a I

716
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:37,880
could even be talked into an A minus. This was

717
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,839
a cap slot fantastic season for the Wizards because of

718
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,839
what it just says about what they're doing, and that's

719
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,519
finally rebuilding, doing something other than angling for you know,

720
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
the seventh or eighth or ninth best record in the

721
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,279
Eastern Conference, and that's a that's a big deal.

722
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I did one thing I did neglect to

723
00:31:57,279 --> 00:31:59,160
mention they heard Will Dawkins as general manager.

724
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: So this is just like this is like.

725
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: An okacuh minded front office just up and down, which

726
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,400
I think is pretty pretty clearly a good thing to

727
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,039
be in terms of how you're gonna run your team.

728
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,359
So this is an A minus for me, and that

729
00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:19,680
is I I don't have any uh an equibble with

730
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,759
your point about like, yeah, that seems like a little

731
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:25,200
bit you know, light for a return from Monte Morris.

732
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,680
You know there were there were like moves they could

733
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,079
have made sooner, but again.

734
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,039
Speaker 3: That's not on this offseason. It's just like, well, yeah

735
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:34,359
I did.

736
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:36,519
Speaker 1: To be clear, that didn't factor to by No, it

737
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:38,599
was I would have just been like while at Monte

738
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,240
I don't care how many guards I have. Let Monte

739
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:41,119
Boris roll into.

740
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: The season and see if someone else gets desperate, and

741
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:46,960
I think this will shock nobody. I think I think

742
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,480
it's worth it to take a crack at Pool, just

743
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:51,359
because even though that contract might be.

744
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,319
Speaker 1: Whatsoever over SGA forever.

745
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: Right forever, he you know, he'll be better in Washington

746
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:01,200
than he was in Golden State.

747
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 3: I'm pretty confident of that.

748
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the same thing as saying

749
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,480
he's a winning player all of a sudden, especially like.

750
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,599
Speaker 3: He's gonna cook this year, like he is going to.

751
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,759
Speaker 2: Have a lot of time on the ball and that'll

752
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:13,640
bring to the four all the good and bad of

753
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,240
the whole Jordan Poole experience. So it's an a minus

754
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,160
for me just because the macro stuff, like, oh my god,

755
00:33:20,279 --> 00:33:23,559
finally we're like operating in a rational way.

756
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: We're mimicking what smart teams have been doing.

757
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: Forever and we're not just you know, obsessed with mediocrity

758
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,759
and really what's been like sub mediocrity and paying through

759
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:36,240
the nose for it. So it's an A minus because

760
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,079
I think they just got the big stuff right, and

761
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:41,000
like none of the trades they made were perfect, Like

762
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,319
you know, there's there's room to criticize all of them,

763
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:46,079
but they made the trades so that that that does

764
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:47,880
it for me for them gets them there. So I

765
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,200
got a whole bunch of like d's and terrible grades

766
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,839
and the Wizards come out with an A minus for

767
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,519
me in this division.

768
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:54,839
Speaker 1: Did you have any issues with the Kusma contractors because

769
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:55,880
you asked me about it before.

770
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,359
Speaker 3: No, I was just curious because it does.

771
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the only Samely guy they brought back,

772
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,319
really and it wasn't cheap. But I think I'm not

773
00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:05,480
the biggest Kuzma fan, but I think that's a totally

774
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:08,000
reasonable number for what he is and what his value

775
00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:10,000
as a trade chip would be, which is how I

776
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:12,559
view him, because like he's very much of which one

777
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:14,440
of these things doesn't belong if you just line up

778
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,000
their roster, doesn't He's not going to be on this

779
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:21,079
team for very long. How about I a'll start We'll

780
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,199
start with Boston. That's the alphabet again, messing with the

781
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,480
alphabet as we do so well around here. Big moves

782
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,679
acquired Christaps Porzingis the twenty fifth pick and a Warriors

783
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,960
twenty twenty four first for this is complex, but ultimately

784
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,000
Marcus Smart Gallo Mike muscalat number thirty five in a

785
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:40,840
trade that involved the Wizards and Grizzlies. They kind of

786
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,360
packaged the Smart deal into that essentially lost Grant Williams

787
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,280
to the Mavericks. Ultimately structured it as a sign and

788
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,079
trade that got a couple of future firsts, and also

789
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:54,719
the Spurs were roped into this somehow. Maybe you can

790
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,480
speak to how that worked. I super summarize this so

791
00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:01,960
I don't remember another big deal Aalen Brown got that max.

792
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,639
So the numbers are all over the place. It came out,

793
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:08,239
as you know, initially like three hundred million over five years.

794
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,320
I think there's some dispute about that because it all

795
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,800
depends on like how much the cap is going to rise,

796
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,440
because his deal depends on its percentage of the cap.

797
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money. That's all you need to know.

798
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: It's in the three hundred million dollars point three is

799
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,199
the number for now. Yeah, and it could get up

800
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,119
if the cap rises the way that people expected to rise,

801
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:30,400
even though it hasn't been projected. That's what it could

802
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:30,800
get up to.

803
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, Freddi would who cared well that and that's going

804
00:35:33,199 --> 00:35:35,840
to be true for several other deals. They're kind of tricky,

805
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,079
but it's a lot. They signed o shaper Set I

806
00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:42,800
know you're a big fan, and Dolan o'banton to minimums.

807
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,840
Drafted Jordan Walsh at number thirty eight, and that's it

808
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,400
for the big moves and less I've forgotten something you

809
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,079
would like to hit on, and if not, what are

810
00:35:52,119 --> 00:35:55,760
your overall thoughts on how Boston conducted business this offseason.

811
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: So the only other thing I would note, and this

812
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,280
did factor to my grave because I thought it was smart,

813
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,840
is they added Sam Cassell and Charles Lee from the

814
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,199
Bucks to Joe Mizula's coaching staff. I think they did

815
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:09,079
well there. This team is so polarizing it's not even

816
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:12,360
funny because the more I think about it, the less

817
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,360
I like the Christops Porzingis deal for them, and I

818
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,599
know that they ended up getting two firsts for Marcus

819
00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:23,239
mart and Porzingis, And I'm trying to understand how this

820
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,719
team gets better in this situation, because the way to

821
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,320
look at it is, Okay, Porzingis might give you an

822
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,960
extra layer of shot making from almost every level. Pretty much,

823
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,000
you're banking on him being healthy, which is something he

824
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:40,199
did in Washington, but not something he did in Dallas

825
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,400
or New York previously. And even if Porzingis is the

826
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,639
best version of himself on offense, you lost Marcus Mart's

827
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:50,239
playmaking and so now it's Peyton Pritchard and Jason Tatum

828
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,000
and Derek White and Malcolm Brogden and Jalen Brown. I

829
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:58,079
guess that's enough by committee to offset the deficit. Even

830
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:01,320
if you're getting the peak of christophs Portsis, have you

831
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,599
not made yourself less versatile on the defensive end just

832
00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:08,360
because Porzingis does not have nearly as much switch Like

833
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,559
he's best suited as just a straight up rimp protector,

834
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,039
and there's some mobility there. I think he actually probably had,

835
00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:17,400
you know, non beginning of his New York days in

836
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,159
general last year was like the most mobile I've seen

837
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:23,480
him look on the defensive end. I I just don't understand,

838
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,000
and that's my question to you is how does this

839
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:28,559
team get better off of this trade? Or is a

840
00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:31,239
way to look at it as they didn't trust Marcus

841
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,559
Smart to age well and so they decided to try

842
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:35,960
and capitalize off their his value here and they did.

843
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:38,800
The only thing that I can't get around is I

844
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,920
think they believe in porzingis because they turned around and

845
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,679
gave him a two year was it sixty to seventy

846
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:46,280
million dollar extension? So it seems like it's more than

847
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,480
just about capitalizing on a player at Marcus Smart who

848
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:51,400
you didn't think was going to age so well.

849
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean to that point, Marcus Smart was

850
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,079
he aged last year? Like, he was markedly worse last

851
00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:00,639
season than the year before. Obviously went defensive player of

852
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:02,079
the Year two years ago, he was not at that

853
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:03,760
level last season.

854
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,079
Speaker 3: I think this is a really.

855
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,679
Speaker 2: Hard team for me to evaluate because if we just

856
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,599
really zoom all the way out, this team's problems were

857
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:14,599
fairly pronounced right. The offense bogged down, they didn't have

858
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:18,079
enough good passers, they struggled in you know, tight playoff games,

859
00:38:18,119 --> 00:38:20,199
and ultimately I think that's fair to say that it

860
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,079
may have cost them a championship or at least it,

861
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,239
you know, has cost them significant chances to advance in

862
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,880
the playoffs and maybe even win the whole thing. I

863
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,559
don't know how they improved that, right because now, like

864
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,280
they don't have any good passers on this team really,

865
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,719
and so the porzingis acquisite. Porzingis was really good last year,

866
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,360
like just full stop was a really good player. If

867
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:48,039
he can be that, then that's exciting. I don't He's

868
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,440
not someone that, like, oh, he really unsticks the offense.

869
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:54,239
I don't think unless they figure out different ways to

870
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,079
use him that make it so, you.

871
00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:00,599
Speaker 3: Know, really good passers don't matter as much. I don't know.

872
00:39:01,679 --> 00:39:04,119
Speaker 2: I just I'm trying to think thinking you know, positive

873
00:39:04,159 --> 00:39:06,840
terms for him. The other thing I'm I'm concerned about

874
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,639
is that it seems like al Horford is still really

875
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:15,079
important and he's just way up there in age now

876
00:39:15,159 --> 00:39:17,039
and has already you know, limited in terms of how

877
00:39:17,119 --> 00:39:17,920
much he can play.

878
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 3: Because I don't.

879
00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 2: Love the Porzingis Robert Williams tandem together. I think that's

880
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:25,159
complicated because one of the two of them is gonna

881
00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:27,000
have to guard in the pick and roll probably, so

882
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,960
like that's where Horford is so helpful to let Williams

883
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,039
be the rover and that unlocks like the very best

884
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:36,320
version of Boston's defense. I think you got to change

885
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,880
that with Porzingis, you know, playing more.

886
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,679
Speaker 3: So I ultimately I'm positive on this overall.

887
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 2: While while conceding all this stuff about like they didn't

888
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,719
really solve some of their problems, I just think Porzingis

889
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,360
is really good. I think they probably got off smart

890
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,639
at the right time. I'm okay with losing Grant Williams,

891
00:39:57,119 --> 00:40:00,000
although like bringing him back for that number I would

892
00:40:00,039 --> 00:40:00,639
have been okay with.

893
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,159
Speaker 3: But you can't. I mean, this team is going to

894
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,559
be so expensive just with the Brown and Tatum.

895
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: Tatum's got an extensive but they almost could have used

896
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,480
him because of how it seems like they want to play.

897
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: Maybe so yeah, I think I think Oshaber said is

898
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,559
one of the better minimum signings in the league.

899
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 3: I think we like him a lot. So I ended

900
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:19,639
up with a bee here.

901
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: While acknowledging that, like there's a really decent chance that

902
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:30,039
nothing Boston did fixes what we all knew was wrong,

903
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,039
it could work. It's still where this team is ridiculously talented.

904
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,159
They're competing for a championship. They added a guy who

905
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:39,360
played at an all star level last year. It's hard

906
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,119
to be too critical of it, But if you really

907
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:44,760
start picking around, it's hard to see how they sort

908
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,519
of tick the big boxes that needed to be ticked

909
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:49,440
if they want to sort of like get over the hump.

910
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: I went with a C minus because pretty far you

911
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:56,400
got good value for smart in a vacuum. But I

912
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,920
think that you're worse now, or at least your floor

913
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:00,719
is lower, and I don't. I think a lot of

914
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,880
people have phrased it. They have a higher ceiling but

915
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,039
a lower floor. I just don't see the higher ceiling.

916
00:41:05,199 --> 00:41:07,400
I don't. And maybe I'll understand the theory of this

917
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:08,920
team when they actually roll out on the court. I

918
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,400
think this is the team that I'm either going to

919
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,360
be very right on or very wrong on, with no

920
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:15,960
with no one between. I just I don't understand it.

921
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,320
And you mentioned this stuff about Horford. It does kind

922
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,880
of feel like they're betting on we're just gonna have

923
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,079
enough collective availability from r W three, Horford and Christopsportling

924
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:26,000
is to make this work, which is fine when you're

925
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:28,079
you know, you're not paying a boatload for all those guys.

926
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:31,280
It's like, you know, fifty five million dollars for all three,

927
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,119
which is not astronomical when you're looking at it. Zero

928
00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:36,800
issues with the Jalen Brown extension. I don't know what

929
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,440
you thought was going to happen. Maybe they could have

930
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,920
held out and not signed him to the full Max.

931
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,840
I just think that the way it works right now,

932
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,000
that contract was going to be the contract. And so

933
00:41:48,679 --> 00:41:51,199
I think we're going to approach a reckoning of oh,

934
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,000
can we sub top twenty guys ever actually be on

935
00:41:55,079 --> 00:41:58,719
Supermax's We're just not there right now. And it's an

936
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,440
uncomfortable number. But jal a really good player, and to me,

937
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,199
he's more important to them than ever, especially defensively now

938
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,320
that Marcus Smart is gone. So I really it's the

939
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,639
Porzingis swing makes me uncomfortable, even though again you could

940
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:15,199
look at the value that they got, that's fine. I

941
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,480
just are you gonna then parlay that value into something else?

942
00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:20,559
And you've already bet on the Porzingis move working out

943
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,119
by going with that two seventy extension, and I don't like,

944
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:26,360
don't I don't know about you, but like I know

945
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,480
the CAP's going up. I don't think christophs Porzingis at

946
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,360
thirty five million. Dollars a year is guaranteed to be

947
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,559
this this huge asset you could go through. If he

948
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:34,880
has a bad year or is injured, there's at least

949
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,400
a one year where that deal just looks bad before

950
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,559
becoming inspiring. It just felt they took a risk, which

951
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:45,480
I admire, that to me does not really address their

952
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,880
ceiling problems. I would say, maybe I'm wrong.

953
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,639
Speaker 2: I think yeah, I think we agree, and I think

954
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:52,159
you put it right. It's like the floors lower for sure,

955
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,239
I think because if all the issues that plague them

956
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:58,199
are worse than like, man, you may you may not

957
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,519
even be in a position where you need to execute

958
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:02,360
on offense to win in Game six of the conference

959
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,079
finals because.

960
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 3: You won't be there.

961
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 2: But I guess I'm just more optimistic about the ceiling.

962
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,719
And if you're competing for a title, I guess I

963
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,320
care more about ceiling. But yeah, it's weird. I have

964
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,079
him as a Bee and I'll stay there. But I

965
00:43:17,199 --> 00:43:21,840
completely understand the justification per c minus. Like, I get it, man,

966
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,480
I mean, if we're not doing this, But like, the

967
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,000
Celtics are going to be one of the most interesting

968
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,079
teams to watch in the league this season because of

969
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:29,639
the potential variance.

970
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 3: On it, like how this whole thing could look.

971
00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: Let's move on to the Brooklyn Nets. They drafted Noah

972
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,039
Clowney at number twenty one. They drafted Drek Whitehead at

973
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:40,840
number twenty two. They saw in Cam Johnson to a

974
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,639
four year, ninety four point five million dollar contract that

975
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,880
has no player options and is guaranteed for ninety million.

976
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,599
They traded Joe Harris, Dallas's twenty twenty seven second and

977
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:53,960
Milwaukee's twenty twenty nine second to Detroit. They created a

978
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:56,559
nineteen point nine million dollar trade exception as part of

979
00:43:56,559 --> 00:43:59,320
that deal. They traded Patty Mills and Milwaukee's twenty twenty

980
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,880
eight second rounder Houston for Brooklyn's own twenty twenty four

981
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,960
second rounder. They signed Dennis Smith Junior. They signed Lonnie

982
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,320
Walker the fourth, and they signed Darius baislely other notes

983
00:44:09,519 --> 00:44:11,320
because I know that he is a cult following. They

984
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,000
waived Edmund Sumner Grant. How do you feel about these Nets?

985
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:16,559
Speaker 3: Pretty good?

986
00:44:16,599 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 2: I think, you know, there weren't a lot of major transactions.

987
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,239
I could understand if people bump on the Joe Harris move.

988
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,199
It's just like we're gonna give away one of the

989
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,480
you know, five best shooters in the league of the

990
00:44:25,519 --> 00:44:29,119
last half decade. But but you know, I think if

991
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:31,239
Cam Johnson's the higher priority and you don't have an

992
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,880
infinite amount of money you want to spend, I could

993
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,559
totally justify that move. I really like their minimums more

994
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:41,559
than more than most. I think Dennismith Junior has his problems,

995
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,360
but he's one of the best defensive guards in the league.

996
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:47,679
Just you know, he's all done level level defender. Lonnie

997
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,079
Walker the fourth, I really am surprised that he didn't

998
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:54,480
get more. You just I guess the market is what

999
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:57,760
it is. Uh, basly, I don't love but but for

1000
00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,519
for the minimum, those three guys could all play, and

1001
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:01,159
I think these two of them definitely will.

1002
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 3: So at the.

1003
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: Draft, I'm not going to touch I mean, you got

1004
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,239
picks in the twenties and then a fifty first pick.

1005
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,440
I'm not going to pretend that I imagine it can

1006
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:12,320
envision how those guys are gonna fit, if at all,

1007
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:13,480
into the rotation this year.

1008
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,559
Speaker 3: So for me, this is I'll just give it.

1009
00:45:16,559 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 2: It's a C plus nothing great, nothing terrible, slightly more

1010
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,920
good than bad. I still kind of don't know what

1011
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:28,480
this team is because you know, they lived two lives

1012
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:32,320
last year, you know, pre and post Superstar or super

1013
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:37,320
Team was the cutoff. I think we both love Bridges,

1014
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,280
we both love Claxton. I think we both love other

1015
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,559
than Ben Simmons, the books being you know, pretty pretty solid.

1016
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,599
Uh So, yeah, nothing wowed me. Nothing like seems like

1017
00:45:49,639 --> 00:45:51,639
a big problem. So it's a little better than average.

1018
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:53,800
That's That's about as hot of a take as I

1019
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:54,679
could muster for them.

1020
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went with a C just because I don't

1021
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:58,840
know what else they were supposed to do, and I

1022
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,960
respect them just kind of keep their options open. Where

1023
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:02,960
if you thought they needed to blow it up or consolidate,

1024
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,800
you need more information on what this team is. I

1025
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,360
think the Cam Johnson deal was as you mentioned, that's

1026
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,719
just perfectly fine. I was surprised, which is the reason

1027
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,559
I couldn't go to like a C. Plus maybe to

1028
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:15,840
be minus that they needed to give up stuff to

1029
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,679
get off Joe Harris. I guess maybe he's been that

1030
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,480
rickety over the past season. Plus when you're looking at

1031
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:23,159
his health, so there is that to consider. I'm not

1032
00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:25,840
gonna normally I would troll them for ducking the tax,

1033
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,360
but this is just not a team that you're gonna

1034
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,920
pay the tax for, and they don't have aspirations that

1035
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,079
the Atlanta Hawks do, for example, where they're trying to

1036
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:35,039
fancy themselves as contender, but they're gonna duck the tax anyway.

1037
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,599
So I just think it was an average offseason for them,

1038
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:39,199
which is what they needed to have. You want to

1039
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:41,960
do anything that I think tethered you to any direction

1040
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:44,039
one way or the other, because you still need more

1041
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:46,280
information on what this team is going to be on

1042
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,719
the floor. I like most of their minimum signings. I'm

1043
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,519
probably lower on both Dennismith Junior than Lonnie Walker and

1044
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:54,119
Lonnie Walker the fourth then consensus, but still at the

1045
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:56,519
minimum that ends up being a pretty big deal. I

1046
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:59,840
actually really like Noah Clowney the theory of a river

1047
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:03,320
hector who can also space the floor. I do question like,

1048
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,320
could they have done something to get like a little

1049
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,639
bit more girthy size on this team, just because yeah,

1050
00:47:10,639 --> 00:47:12,480
you have Dayron Sharp, but how much you're planning on

1051
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:14,920
playing him and now you have Noah Clowney and you

1052
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,159
have Nick Claxton, and does Ben Simmons factor into the

1053
00:47:18,159 --> 00:47:20,519
big man rotation at all? Just you feel a little

1054
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,920
slight is the why I would and you figure out

1055
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,360
a way too, I think capably or at least reasonably

1056
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,800
defend Jowell and beat in the playoffs. Regardless, I probably

1057
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,920
would have liked to have see them gotten just a

1058
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,159
burlier body in here to soak up those those types

1059
00:47:33,199 --> 00:47:33,599
of reps.

1060
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, not a lot of teams where that would be

1061
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,880
a criticism, but it definitely applies here because you don't

1062
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,480
want to have to be like drawing up ridiculous schemes

1063
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,559
every time you face like a legitimately center sized center

1064
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:46,000
because you just don't have the bulk for so they're

1065
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:46,920
in a weird spot with that.

1066
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,679
Speaker 3: We have the Knicks next. Are you ready?

1067
00:47:48,679 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: This is gonna be that I would talk about a

1068
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,320
quick team and that's not And look, the Knicks might

1069
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,519
have done even less that we're being honest, they did.

1070
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:58,559
Speaker 2: So you got Josh Hart just as we're recording this today,

1071
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,440
got four years and eighty one million bucks as an extension,

1072
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:04,440
takes his total deal to about ninety four million through

1073
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,960
twenty seven to twenty eight. Dante di Vincenzo comes aboard

1074
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,960
for four years and just under fifty million. Forty six

1075
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,119
point nine of that's guaranteed it can get up another

1076
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:16,320
three million or so. Obi Topping gone for a couple seconds,

1077
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:18,719
and Derek Rose gone to Memphis. I don't know how

1078
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,920
much that matters, but we are real short on transactions

1079
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,800
for the Knicks. Did I did I miss anything there?

1080
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,159
Speaker 1: They signed Nathan Knight, Jaalen Martin, and Dylan Windler who

1081
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,480
two way contracts. They signed Jacob Toppen, They waved Trevor Keels,

1082
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,000
and they waved and then re signed Dwayne Washington Junior. Well,

1083
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:37,360
so I didn't miss anything, is what you're saying this

1084
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,320
offseason is I saw there are some people who are

1085
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,599
frustrated the Knicks weren't more active and they were never

1086
00:48:43,679 --> 00:48:46,079
just going to trade Julius Randall for anyone who's kind

1087
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:49,119
of been in in that camp, like it wasn't gonna happen.

1088
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,400
And you if you want them to acquire a star,

1089
00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:54,320
a star that makes sense needs to become available. Dono

1090
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,519
Mitchell isn't back on the trade market for Cleveland, and

1091
00:48:56,519 --> 00:48:58,320
you could argue whether that even still makes sense to go.

1092
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:00,920
He makes sense to go after they're not. They shouldn't

1093
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,039
be a James Harden team. I would be opposed to

1094
00:49:03,079 --> 00:49:05,000
them being a Damian Lillard team, but you didn't make

1095
00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:07,039
his list of teams that you wanted to go to.

1096
00:49:07,639 --> 00:49:10,599
What they needed was shooting. We talked about this. They

1097
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:13,760
needed shooting that was good enough to crack their closing lineup.

1098
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,400
They were never going to get that for the non

1099
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,960
textpayer mid level exception. I think the Vincenzo is a

1100
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,360
reasonable salary placeholder. I don't think he's a capslock shooter.

1101
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,679
His percentage last season says otherwise. But he struggled in

1102
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:27,760
his early days Milwaukee, and then he looked all he

1103
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,280
was coming off injury. He didn't look great with the

1104
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,679
Kings necessarily, so there's a little bit of a gamble there. Actually,

1105
00:49:32,679 --> 00:49:34,159
I don't know if they got great value for him.

1106
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:37,679
It's reasonable value. The Josh Hart extension, so he's now

1107
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,519
under contract in total for five and ninety four. Right,

1108
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,119
does that feel? Does that feel right?

1109
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:47,079
Speaker 2: I mean it kind of depends on Josh Hart has

1110
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:49,079
had a really up and down career. I think it's

1111
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,719
I think it's on the high side or right probably

1112
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,840
like it's it's within the range of what would be.

1113
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,920
You know, again, this is not a crippler, right, This

1114
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,920
isn't They're not paying him forty million bucks a year.

1115
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,840
It's it's in the twenty neighborhood. I think it starts

1116
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,519
at like eighteen and by the time it's over it's

1117
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:05,320
up to like twenty two or twenty one in change

1118
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:10,320
or something like that. I mean, I think it's totally fine.

1119
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,000
You're talking like you think maybe it's a little too much.

1120
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: For Josh Hart just on this team because the three

1121
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,480
point volume just is there, isn't there, and it's never

1122
00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:21,320
really been there. And is he Is he someone you

1123
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,719
viewed as part of your closing lineup, Because if you're

1124
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,519
gonna pay fifteen percent of the salary cap to someone

1125
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:28,199
you let's just say that's what it ends up being.

1126
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,400
You probably want him to have a shot not doing that.

1127
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,760
And I just if you have Julius Randall and Mitchell

1128
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,239
Robinson and Jalen Brunton, I don't love the Josh Hart

1129
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,239
fit there because then you're playing him at the two

1130
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,760
three rather than I love him at the four or

1131
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,880
three four. So a lot of this comes back to, well,

1132
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:47,199
is Julius Randall long for this team or should he be?

1133
00:50:47,639 --> 00:50:49,239
I don't think it's a bad move. And you got

1134
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,039
him to opt in, which gave you the flexibility this

1135
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:53,480
year to go out and get Dante DiVincenzo. I think

1136
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:57,320
he improves your team. But it's just sort of like, Okay,

1137
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,559
now you have Emmanuel Quickly and Jalen Brunton and Dante

1138
00:50:59,599 --> 00:51:02,239
divinen Zone, RJ Barrett and Josh Hart and Quenton Grimes.

1139
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,679
Where what are we sort of doing with this preimive rotation.

1140
00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:07,119
It's not a terrible problem to have, though, and none

1141
00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:10,400
of these moves are damaging in the sense that unless

1142
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,719
these players just suffer catastrophic injuries, you can't move them.

1143
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,719
I just still don't think they made their offensive process

1144
00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:20,519
that much easier. I don't think they and I also

1145
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:22,679
don't think they opened up runway for guys like em

1146
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,840
Manual Quickly or r J Barrett to continue exploring themselves.

1147
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,719
If anything, they've kind of shrunk the runway that those

1148
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:29,440
two already had.

1149
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little bit like Boston, where you can

1150
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,079
be critical because they had a fairly clear set of

1151
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:36,239
problems and they didn't really transact in a way that

1152
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,719
addressed them, just specifically with the shooting in the closing lineup.

1153
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:44,440
I kind of think that if your criticism of the

1154
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:47,719
Knicks off season is that, well, they didn't swing big.

1155
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,280
You know, they didn't do the Randal thing, or they

1156
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,840
didn't consolidate, they didn't you know, throw quickly in Grimes

1157
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,840
or whatever else into a deal for a shooter, or

1158
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,079
they didn't use those guys to sweeten a Julius Randall deal.

1159
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,639
I think one, it's pretty clear those deals weren't there

1160
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,320
for any kind of reasonable value and too, like to

1161
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,880
your point, they didn't do anything that that like hamstrings

1162
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,880
their ability to eventually make the big swing. So I

1163
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,159
think I get the frustration because this team was good

1164
00:52:14,199 --> 00:52:17,039
last year and needed to get it was pretty but

1165
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:20,039
pretty clearly a notch or two below like the real

1166
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:25,519
serious contending threats, and there's frustration if they don't level up.

1167
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:28,719
It's just like the opportunity wasn't really there. I think

1168
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:30,800
it is fair to be critical that the players that

1169
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:35,000
they in Heart's case kept and in Devincenzo's case acquired

1170
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,800
don't really they're kind of just like more of the same.

1171
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:40,880
I mean, that's an oversimplification, but it's not so so

1172
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:43,920
for me. This is a C minus and just because

1173
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,840
they didn't do anything bad per se. But like the

1174
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,079
quote unquote, you know the way they spent their money,

1175
00:52:50,079 --> 00:52:55,880
didn't didn't fundamentally change or you know, the ceiling or

1176
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,000
and didn't certainly didn't address like what was kind of

1177
00:52:58,039 --> 00:52:58,480
wrong with.

1178
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: The team and look the other thing here, and you

1179
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,639
can and should absolutely I'm not not crucify them for it.

1180
00:53:04,639 --> 00:53:07,480
That's way too strong. But they let Obi Toppins value

1181
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:07,840
a road.

1182
00:53:08,039 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: I didn't even talk about that. That's totally right.

1183
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's look, I don't I think a lot

1184
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:15,000
of people figured as they were doing sort of him

1185
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,559
a favor and Mike, let's keep that relationship. You know,

1186
00:53:17,639 --> 00:53:20,079
the agency attac blah blah blahti aa ya ya YadA,

1187
00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:23,239
YadA YadA. He wasn't worth much. He wasn't worth much

1188
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,239
more than they got from which was too least favorable.

1189
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 4: Okay, picture this. It's Friday afternoon when a thought hits you.

1190
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,000
I can spend another weekend doing the same old whatever.

1191
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,679
Or I can hop into my all new Hyundai Santa

1192
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:39,679
Fe and hit the road. With available h track, all

1193
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:42,559
wheel drive and three row seating. My whole family can

1194
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:45,159
head deep into the wild, conquer the weekend in the

1195
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,079
all new Hundai Santa Fe. Visit Hyundai USA dot com

1196
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:51,320
or call five six two three one four four six

1197
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:55,079
oh three for more details. Hyundai, there's joy and every.

1198
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,639
Speaker 1: Journey second round picks at this point, and I understand

1199
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:00,400
that you didn't think Julius Renald was gonna hop off

1200
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:02,880
the way he did. You watched him win Most Improved

1201
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,079
Player three three seasons ago. At this point, like you

1202
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:06,760
had more than enough time to kind of try and

1203
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,679
make up this, like make up this ground or I

1204
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,880
should say, a just recalibrate, and you didn't. I penalize

1205
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,400
them for that a little bit. And to your point,

1206
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,440
I do not. I want to make this clear. You

1207
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,039
already mentioned this. I mentioned this. The big Swing wasn't

1208
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:21,920
out there. I think you could lament should they have

1209
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,880
been in on Max Shruce, like someone to give you

1210
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,280
more functional shooting maybe than a devincenzo. Okay, sure, but

1211
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,239
that's not all we missed out on Max Shruce, like

1212
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,519
the Knick's gonna d it's this is evidence and I

1213
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:34,280
don't know. This did not factor into my grade. I

1214
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,320
want to make it clear, but I think it's a

1215
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,400
worthwhile talking point. And we know how I feel about

1216
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:41,039
the Knicks. This was evidence that we have seen to

1217
00:54:41,159 --> 00:54:44,159
use this word again, the erosion of what their best

1218
00:54:44,159 --> 00:54:47,199
trade package is because Obi Toppen was no longer an asset.

1219
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,360
We're talking about all these first round picks that they

1220
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:53,719
can move to Detroit and Washington pick specifically, are those

1221
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,039
even gonna convey You have to ask yourself that question.

1222
00:54:56,519 --> 00:54:59,320
The Knick's own picks, if they're gonna be good, Yes,

1223
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,119
they could still be viewed in the same vein as oh,

1224
00:55:01,119 --> 00:55:03,639
we got a King's first rounder. I just think the

1225
00:55:03,679 --> 00:55:07,320
Knicks have probably been so I would say mostly rational

1226
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,199
with how they've gone about building their team and how

1227
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,760
the front office has reacted. Those first round picks are

1228
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,480
not gonna bowl you over unless you're giving out a

1229
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,559
bunch of them where it's what we saw the package

1230
00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:19,199
was when Cleveland went all in on Donovan Mitchell or

1231
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,519
Minnesota went all in on Rudy Gobert and Emmanuel Cookie's

1232
00:55:22,519 --> 00:55:25,679
extension eligible. So he's either even if you don't extend him,

1233
00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:27,320
he's not gonna be super valuable to trade knowing you

1234
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:28,800
have to pay him, or is he gonna be as

1235
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,719
valuable coming on his next deal. RJ has already been paid.

1236
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,679
We have just slowly seen the gradation of their best

1237
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,480
trade package. Go from Wow, the Knicks are best positioned

1238
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,119
to land this star to now, okay, yeah they can

1239
00:55:42,199 --> 00:55:44,719
still make an offer. Will it be the best offer?

1240
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,920
The answer is no. We've already seen him get out

1241
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,840
bid when it came to Mitchell, which is again fine,

1242
00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:51,840
we both said we would not have made that trade

1243
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,519
if they were them. But now you're getting to a

1244
00:55:53,599 --> 00:55:56,519
point where other teams are coming up in their timelines

1245
00:55:56,519 --> 00:55:59,800
where it's could okay, see or New Orleans eventually get involved.

1246
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,559
Here Utah is floating around with all these assets. So

1247
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,840
I'm I'm not down on the Knicks. I want to

1248
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,079
make that clear, but this off season did not advance

1249
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,159
their long term agenda in any way, shape or form.

1250
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:16,159
If anything, I think it took away from it a

1251
00:56:16,159 --> 00:56:18,719
little bit. So I ended up with a C. I

1252
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,239
wanted to go a little bit lower because I think

1253
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:22,440
that they missed the boat on Obi topping, but I

1254
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,519
do think to get someone who's as talented and theory

1255
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,039
as Devincenzo, just for like the minimum, I think an

1256
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:30,199
average off season is perfectly fair because you look at

1257
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:31,519
that and say, Okay, well they didn't do anything that

1258
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:33,280
they shouldn't have where it's there might have been the

1259
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,679
impetus to where we just made it to the second round.

1260
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,159
We have to get better, we have to do this

1261
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:39,239
even if it's not worth it, and they did resist

1262
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:40,000
that temptation.

1263
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 2: I want to ask you like a philosophical Knicks question,

1264
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,960
because you've been through forever. It was we're gonna wait

1265
00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:49,519
or we're gonna just hunt, you know, whether it's back

1266
00:56:49,519 --> 00:56:51,440
to the Kevin Durant off season, We're like, we're gonna,

1267
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,960
we're gonna bring in these stars, we're gonna we're biding

1268
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,280
our time, and it's just like it didn't work out,

1269
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,880
and or you go back farther like we're gonna pay

1270
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,800
a Mari stodam are a ton of we're gonna trade

1271
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,360
for Carmelo all this other thing.

1272
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: You've got the team so we can get them.

1273
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: So there were all these like really like you know,

1274
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,480
their aims were high, like they in terms of like

1275
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:10,840
the types of players that were trying to get, and

1276
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:12,800
it was always just kind of there were lulls in

1277
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,880
between when the Knicks would try to take a big.

1278
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 3: Swing on someone.

1279
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:20,119
Speaker 2: Do you think that since this new management structure has

1280
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:22,800
taken shape and the team has actually been run kind

1281
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,320
of like in a rational way. Do you think that's

1282
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,199
still the idea of like, well, we're gonna we're just

1283
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,280
kind of we're holding onto these assets we're waiting for,

1284
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:35,119
like the big trade or signing or signings that are

1285
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:37,639
gonna really change our fate. Signings are a little harder

1286
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:39,800
now because of their current commitments. But like, is it

1287
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,159
that or is it more like we're just gonna try

1288
00:57:42,159 --> 00:57:46,079
to run a sane operation that doesn't grossly overpay for guys.

1289
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:48,239
We're gonna be good, We're gonna be in the playoffs

1290
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:51,519
and if we if it so happens that we, you know,

1291
00:57:51,599 --> 00:57:53,840
have an opportunity to get a start, great, But we're

1292
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,039
just gonna kind of we're just gonna try to be

1293
00:57:56,119 --> 00:57:59,360
good and rational for a while and see how that feels.

1294
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,440
Or is it still like this is just they're just waiting.

1295
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 1: They're trying to do both, but they're just waiting. They're

1296
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,119
binding their time, and quite frankly, they have to because

1297
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:08,039
there's no one on the roster right now that you

1298
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:10,320
look at and say, yeah, there's Jealen Brunson, but who's

1299
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,880
going to become our second north Star? And there's just

1300
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,840
no one that's that's the I mean, the RJ. Barrett

1301
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:17,920
ship has sailed on that front quite frankly, And because

1302
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,679
you're so capable now, you're probably not going to be

1303
00:58:20,679 --> 00:58:24,159
in a position to draft that individual either, And so

1304
00:58:24,199 --> 00:58:26,639
I think they're just waiting, which again is fine. I

1305
00:58:26,639 --> 00:58:29,079
don't think it's I'm not it's it's a C and

1306
00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:30,760
I could probably be talking to a C minus just

1307
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,960
because I feel like I didn't love anything they did.

1308
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,119
But I'm trying to step away and say the Josh

1309
00:58:35,159 --> 00:58:37,800
Hard contract is just reasonable. They didn't overpay, I don't think,

1310
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,199
and if they did, it was by a hair. Dante DiVincenzo,

1311
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:42,119
if he's the player he was last season, ends up

1312
00:58:42,119 --> 00:58:42,840
helping you a ton.

1313
00:58:43,239 --> 00:58:43,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1314
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:45,719
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that the Knicks are kind of

1315
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:47,559
in there a little better than like in the quote

1316
00:58:47,639 --> 00:58:50,599
unquote middle, but but they're sort of ducking a lot

1317
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:53,599
of the criticism that we level other like middling teams

1318
00:58:53,599 --> 00:58:56,159
like Chicago or I don't know who else to throw

1319
00:58:56,199 --> 00:58:58,519
in there. And I think it's just because they they

1320
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:01,519
haven't gone and done the like the signing, or like

1321
00:59:01,559 --> 00:59:05,039
the Lavigne extension like they haven't, or the Vucevic trade

1322
00:59:05,079 --> 00:59:07,039
like they don't. They haven't made those types of moves

1323
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:10,960
just piling on Chicago right now. They're just like in

1324
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,119
the Chicago section, like like snuck into the New York

1325
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,519
but it isn't you know. I wonder then, like how

1326
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:20,800
much longer do we do this, what the Knicks are doing,

1327
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:23,880
before we start getting like pick a direction, guys, before

1328
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,159
we start throwing that at him.

1329
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 1: I think they're also rightfully so riding the high of

1330
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,519
well they were right about Jalen Brunson when everyone else,

1331
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:32,800
including us, were wrong. Not even the money, just the

1332
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,400
process by which they acquired him, And I just wondered,

1333
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:37,039
was he going to be as good on the Knicks

1334
00:59:37,039 --> 00:59:40,400
outside of Dallas spacing? And then the Mitchell Robinson deal

1335
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:43,079
looks like, yeah, he was marginalized the points in the playoffs,

1336
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:45,119
but that was something we missed on as well. Drewis

1337
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:48,320
ran on a bounce back campaign. They've proven that they

1338
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,400
know what they're doing. I just don't. I don't know

1339
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,440
what the ceiling this team ceiling is currently constructed, feels

1340
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,440
the same as it was last season. I don't know

1341
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,920
where that internal growth comes from. It's probably Quentin Grimes

1342
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:02,480
quickly Archie Barrett all taking that next step. I just

1343
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,119
think the moves they've made have made it much harder

1344
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:07,000
for those guys to do that.

1345
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the product's gonna be good, and the Knicks are

1346
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,519
gonna do a lot of the right things and run

1347
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:12,880
a lot of things the right way.

1348
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:15,239
Speaker 3: But it's always a little bit uneasy.

1349
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,519
Speaker 2: It may it's an uneasy feeling when you're trying to

1350
01:00:17,679 --> 01:00:20,960
envision what the next great Knicks team looks like, and

1351
01:00:21,039 --> 01:00:23,480
like a couple of these guys are on that team,

1352
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,840
most of them aren't, and so then it's like, what

1353
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:28,559
are we doing here? But it's like hard to quibble with.

1354
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:30,639
They're gonna be in the playoffs again, they'll probably win

1355
01:00:30,679 --> 01:00:33,159
around or two. Like that's that's good, we have.

1356
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:35,119
Speaker 1: A break, right, Yeah, they could make the conference, but

1357
01:00:35,119 --> 01:00:37,480
there are three teams above them, for sure, and that's Cleveland,

1358
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,480
it's Milwaukee. I don't even know if I feel confident

1359
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,119
putting Boston man. Oh wow, yeah, So just so you're

1360
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:45,039
in you're in a good spot. I just don't know

1361
01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:48,119
what you did to improve your flexibility now or later.

1362
01:00:48,159 --> 01:00:50,119
And maybe I'm again a sea is average for anyone

1363
01:00:50,159 --> 01:00:52,400
who gets mad there. I should take us on to

1364
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:55,159
the Philadelphia seventy six Ers. The Knicks cannibalize some of

1365
01:00:55,159 --> 01:00:57,760
the nets time, but that's that's fine. Uh. The Sixers

1366
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,239
fire Doc Rivers, they hire Nick Nurse, They signed to Mobamba,

1367
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,079
They signed Patrick Beverley. They re signed Mantres Harrell, who

1368
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:06,960
has since torn in ACL. They matched an offer sheet

1369
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,400
on Paul Reid for three years twenty five and a

1370
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,159
half million that is only guaranteed in year one, but

1371
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:15,519
the second two years will guarantee if Philly wins an

1372
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:19,440
opening round of the twenty twenty four playoffs. And they

1373
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,719
signed Philip Patrussov. I just wanted to throw that in THERECAU.

1374
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:25,760
I knew that you cared about that. Other notes, though

1375
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,920
they're not moves. The John McDaniels left for the Raptors

1376
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,159
on a two year nine point three million dollar contract,

1377
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,000
George and Nyang left for the Cavs on a three

1378
01:01:33,039 --> 01:01:35,960
year twenty five point five million dollar contract that declines

1379
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:39,079
in salary, and the Timberwolves signed Shake Milton to a

1380
01:01:39,079 --> 01:01:41,559
two year, ten million dollar deal that's non guaranteed for

1381
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:45,159
year two. And as we know, probably the biggest note

1382
01:01:45,159 --> 01:01:48,599
on this team, James Harden opted in and then requested

1383
01:01:48,599 --> 01:01:51,760
a trade. He is right now as we record this,

1384
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,840
still a member of the Philadelphia seventy six ers. Grant,

1385
01:01:55,559 --> 01:01:58,519
what do you there's a level of incompleteness here, I

1386
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:01,960
will say, but it's not on this level as Miami

1387
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,719
or even Portland. There's like a level of you guys

1388
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:06,440
done fucked up?

1389
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,039
Speaker 2: Yeah that is uh, we could stop there. I think

1390
01:02:11,079 --> 01:02:12,840
I think that's our that's our assessment.

1391
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:17,599
Speaker 3: No, I think that's right. Like, you know, the so we've.

1392
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,679
Speaker 2: Talked about downside risk a couple of times. The downside

1393
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:24,400
here of just you know, Harden is gonna make it uncomfortable,

1394
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,880
Like that's just what happens, it seems like. And and

1395
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:29,360
this isn't the case of the heat.

1396
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 3: The heat.

1397
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 2: We're incomplete when we did them, which will er later

1398
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,920
for like a completely opposite reason. It's like, well, they

1399
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,760
might get this guy for the Sixers. It's like, well

1400
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,440
they they're incomplete because they might trade this guy Hardened,

1401
01:02:42,679 --> 01:02:45,039
but we don't know what that's gonna net them. It's like,

1402
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,320
is he what what are the you know, the whatever

1403
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,760
the Clippers package is like maybe it maybe it replenishes

1404
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,960
some depth, but you're just not gonna get someone that's

1405
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:57,840
you know, and Harden was like, you know, I'm not

1406
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,400
a big hardened fan generally speaking, but like he was

1407
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:02,800
an All Star player last year. He was very good

1408
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:03,920
for a lot of the season.

1409
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 1: The playoffs, when you look at somebod they catch all

1410
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:08,320
metrics like he should have been a shoe in for

1411
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:08,880
all NBA.

1412
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:11,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And I mean the playoffs went how

1413
01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:13,440
they went. We got some real highs and we got

1414
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,360
some lows. We got some real hard and lows in

1415
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,559
there just to make sure that the narrative stayed what

1416
01:03:18,599 --> 01:03:18,920
it was.

1417
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:21,920
Speaker 1: So I.

1418
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 3: It's an F.

1419
01:03:24,519 --> 01:03:27,079
Speaker 2: It's an F right now for me, And there is

1420
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:29,800
a slash incomplete there because it could definitely get better.

1421
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,119
Speaker 3: But I think maybe what.

1422
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 2: We haven't talked about, and maybe you could speak to

1423
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,239
this is like what has happened to this offseason and

1424
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,199
to and it does have like tails that go further

1425
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,719
back a year or so, involving hard and involving morey.

1426
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:48,719
You've now made it super foreseeable that Joel Embiid says

1427
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:50,519
I'm good, guys, time to go.

1428
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:52,159
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be the next one. Now.

1429
01:03:52,199 --> 01:03:54,599
Speaker 2: That's I don't know how you factor that into an

1430
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:56,320
off season grade. It's not going to lower it because

1431
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:56,880
I already.

1432
01:03:56,639 --> 01:03:57,239
Speaker 3: Gave him an F.

1433
01:03:57,599 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 2: But like the way they've operated did brings that into

1434
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:05,639
into like the realm of possibility in a pretty significant way,

1435
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,159
where had things gone differently, that would not be the case.

1436
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

1437
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:13,199
Speaker 2: I'm curious if you were as down on it as me.

1438
01:04:13,679 --> 01:04:16,559
The team is gonna be worse just overall talent wise,

1439
01:04:16,599 --> 01:04:19,679
Like losing Shake Milton is not is not nothing, Losing

1440
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,960
Nyang is not nothing. Even losing Jalen McDaniel's is not nothing.

1441
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,199
And then you basically have Embid, you have Tobias Harris,

1442
01:04:26,199 --> 01:04:29,320
you have Tyre's Maxi and whatever you get for Harden

1443
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:30,320
like that's your new core.

1444
01:04:31,239 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: You're worse.

1445
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 2: And this is a team that's trying to win a title,

1446
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,480
So you're worse, and you're potentially like catastrophically worse.

1447
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 3: So I could not get behind this offseason.

1448
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:43,159
Speaker 1: I don't with an F as well. There's look, I

1449
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:44,800
think you look at the players they could have kept.

1450
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:46,400
There are rotation players, and you say, well, none of

1451
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,840
them are just like can't miss, and they're clearly trying

1452
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,960
to preserve flexibility for next summer, which is why they're

1453
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,480
not going to extend Tyre's MAXI maybe some people factor

1454
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:54,719
that as part of their great Again. You can't go

1455
01:04:54,719 --> 01:04:56,480
lower unless you're gonna go on and F minus. I

1456
01:04:56,519 --> 01:04:58,239
try to give out only one a maximum of one

1457
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,960
F minus per conference and alert it's not gonna be

1458
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,519
to this team. H and I. Sometimes sometimes there's no

1459
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:07,039
F minus is given out. I don't think either of

1460
01:05:07,119 --> 01:05:08,639
us gave out and F minus last year, if I'm

1461
01:05:08,639 --> 01:05:13,119
not mistaken. So here's my thing, the two things that

1462
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:15,159
stent out. So forget the players that left, which you

1463
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,760
I think I'm most uncomfortable with John McDaniels leaving just

1464
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,440
because of what they gave up to get him, and

1465
01:05:20,519 --> 01:05:25,559
you kind of need that type of player. Let's start

1466
01:05:25,559 --> 01:05:28,239
here with the Harden stuff. You know what happened last

1467
01:05:28,239 --> 01:05:30,239
offseason where he took that pay cut, and the reports

1468
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,719
now are you were only willing to go one plus

1469
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:35,280
one on him this year, even if that was for

1470
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,360
the full max. Like I understand why Harden's kind of aggrieved.

1471
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:41,519
I don't think he has necessarily a ton of leverage.

1472
01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:44,239
I think he's better equipped to navigate this than Damian

1473
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:47,519
Lillard because he will make shit uncomfortable for everyone. But

1474
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:49,440
I kind of get it. You asked him to take

1475
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,199
this pay cut, and yes, you could say, well, we're

1476
01:05:51,199 --> 01:05:53,199
playing the market. Who is gonna give him that money?

1477
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,480
I just I feel like they really mishand was there.

1478
01:05:56,519 --> 01:05:59,320
Did they really envision Harden going from taking miss one

1479
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,320
plus one and then taking another one plus one so

1480
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,039
that you could float cap space that would either entail

1481
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,119
one getting rid of him or to him taking another

1482
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:11,559
pay cut. I just I don't understand that. And then two,

1483
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,920
why do you care so much about cap space? Now?

1484
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:17,960
We just saw that it's not gonna do anything like, yeah,

1485
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,159
maybe you get a Fred van Fleet level player. And

1486
01:06:20,199 --> 01:06:24,079
if the idea is we're gonna get og Ananobi from

1487
01:06:24,119 --> 01:06:28,039
the Raptors, is oge ANDOBV guy that you plan your

1488
01:06:28,239 --> 01:06:31,519
entire two years worth of cap space around? Is that

1489
01:06:31,559 --> 01:06:33,920
the guy? And then oh, hey, also, you just hired

1490
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,079
his former coach and Nick Nurse, So I think it's

1491
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:38,599
probably a tactical upgrade over Doc Rivers. So let's give

1492
01:06:38,599 --> 01:06:41,639
them that. Uh that's the f plus move of the

1493
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,400
of the off season. But everything we hear coming out

1494
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,639
of Toronto, both publicly and behind the scenes, is that

1495
01:06:47,679 --> 01:06:50,719
most of the players despised Nick Nurse, And so was

1496
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,599
your grand idea to get og Ananobi to come play

1497
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:56,599
for Nick Nurse? Again? Did og Ananobe have that type

1498
01:06:56,639 --> 01:06:59,719
of relationship with Nick Nurse? I don't understand what they're doing,

1499
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,280
and you now created at best less unless Harden has

1500
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,599
a change of heart. But they're tracking towards a gap

1501
01:07:06,719 --> 01:07:09,280
year with Joel Embiid and you just don't have that

1502
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,199
kind of time to squander. You need to operate with

1503
01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:17,440
more organized urgency. And this is like very laissez far

1504
01:07:18,639 --> 01:07:22,039
like aimlessness. It sort of feels like right now And

1505
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:24,519
the only thing that I think can change this grade

1506
01:07:24,559 --> 01:07:27,360
is do they somehow get enough out of a James

1507
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:30,440
Harden trade to turn around and then acquire another star.

1508
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:35,360
But even then, I'm like, if you go from having

1509
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,000
James Harden, you get this asset package back, but you

1510
01:07:39,079 --> 01:07:41,679
still need to include Tyre's Maxi to get that other star.

1511
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:44,199
You now have to bake that into the opportunity cost

1512
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:48,440
of this next player cost us James Harden and Tyrese Maxi,

1513
01:07:49,039 --> 01:07:51,079
because I don't think you can trade one first round

1514
01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:53,039
pick right now, you drain one. So are you getting

1515
01:07:53,119 --> 01:07:56,480
enough back in a James Harden trade to attach to

1516
01:07:56,519 --> 01:07:58,679
that one first round pick to keep Maxy and then

1517
01:07:58,679 --> 01:08:00,920
go get a star. I guess we should leave open

1518
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,719
the possibility, but I honestly it's not gonna happen from

1519
01:08:03,719 --> 01:08:06,480
the Clippers, that's for sure. So this is it's an

1520
01:08:06,639 --> 01:08:08,840
f it's it's a TVD because we do need to

1521
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,800
see how this plays out. But right now it's adath.

1522
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, nothing to add, just other than every team has

1523
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,039
like a spectrum of possible outcomes, like small picture, big picture.

1524
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,279
The Sixers just added a big section of like this

1525
01:08:24,359 --> 01:08:27,079
is good disastrous, like we are going to be starting

1526
01:08:27,119 --> 01:08:29,600
over after we trade Joel Embiid, which you'll get a

1527
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,279
lot for him, but like that, that's now a very

1528
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:37,720
big part of their possible future. You know scenarios. Do

1529
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,439
I have the Raptors or do you have the Raptors?

1530
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:40,239
Speaker 1: You have the Raptors.

1531
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 3: All right, here we go. We signed we I play

1532
01:08:44,039 --> 01:08:44,600
for the Raptors.

1533
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,199
Speaker 2: Now, as you know that, they signed Yaka Pearl to

1534
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:49,239
a four year, eighty million dollars deal with the player option.

1535
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:52,880
Gary Trent Junior, surprisingly to me anyway, opted in for

1536
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:56,159
eighteen point six million. Dennis Shrewder is on board for

1537
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:59,000
two years and twenty five. Gela McDaniels. We just talked

1538
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,760
about him with the Sixers two year's nine point three

1539
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,439
million Auto Porter Junior opted in after just basically missing

1540
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,199
the entire year. That was not a surprise six point

1541
01:09:06,199 --> 01:09:07,039
three million for him.

1542
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:07,600
Speaker 1: Uh.

1543
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,199
Speaker 2: The Raptors drafted Grady Dick at number thirteen. They fired

1544
01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:13,000
Nick Nurse and hired Darko.

1545
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:17,039
Speaker 3: Uh. I've spelled it wrong, so I can't read it now.

1546
01:09:17,039 --> 01:09:20,720
Where's it on your sheet? Yakovic Rayakovic? I know it

1547
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:22,960
was like Stayakovic? What did I write? I wrote, Ya

1548
01:09:23,079 --> 01:09:27,159
Yakovic terrible, lost Fred van Vliet. I'm sure we'll discuss that,

1549
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,479
and lost Don o'banton, And uh, did I miss anything

1550
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:32,960
of consequence other than that?

1551
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 1: I feel like you weren't critical enough when you were

1552
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,399
going through the list of moves, is like kind of

1553
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,640
a what the fuck face? And they did they waved

1554
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:40,359
given that for you.

1555
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 3: I was gonna give you the runway.

1556
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: There because they waved. They waved Joe Wie's camp. That matters.

1557
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:49,600
But you mentioned Gary Trent Junior. Is he Congratulations by

1558
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,680
the way, Garrett Temple for continuing his run of just

1559
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,159
being a locker room getting paid.

1560
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 3: Fix our disastrous locker room.

1561
01:09:56,119 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 1: Uh so there's the Pascal S. Yakham trade roomors that

1562
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,520
are floating around out there. I assume Gary Trent junior

1563
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,199
extension is going to be coming, because, like I said,

1564
01:10:03,239 --> 01:10:05,640
I couldn't identify the team that was going to pay

1565
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:08,079
him more, but I like I was surprised that he

1566
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:11,720
opted in. So those are the other two notes this team.

1567
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,399
You drop out a disastrous offseason. This is now the

1568
01:10:14,439 --> 01:10:17,039
second time in a row they let a franchise Cornerstone

1569
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:20,000
walk for basically nothing. And you know what's even more egregious.

1570
01:10:20,119 --> 01:10:22,279
You could argue to think Kyle Lowry is solid, he

1571
01:10:22,359 --> 01:10:24,800
was past his heyday. They got precious a chew out

1572
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,560
of him. Fine fregitively left for two years, two guaranteed years,

1573
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,199
and you couldn't muster up like the ability to well, okay,

1574
01:10:33,239 --> 01:10:34,640
we'll be in at tax, but we'll figure out how

1575
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,000
to cut that down later. Maybe it's a Chris Bouchet trade.

1576
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,000
And do we get rid Ofvado Porter junior? Do we

1577
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,920
move those other pieces around? And yet you turn around

1578
01:10:42,279 --> 01:10:44,399
after giving up a top six protected first round pick

1579
01:10:44,399 --> 01:10:46,239
for Yaka pertl. He kind of had you with the

1580
01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:49,720
bird rights trap. You just gave twenty million dollars a year,

1581
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,319
which is still let's say, fifteen percent of the salary cap,

1582
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:55,920
moving forward to someone who probably can't close games for

1583
01:10:56,039 --> 01:10:58,520
you right now because of his re throw shooting, at

1584
01:10:58,600 --> 01:10:59,760
least not most of the games.

1585
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 2: And part of the reason you did that is because

1586
01:11:03,119 --> 01:11:08,479
you traded a lightly protected first rounder for him. So well,

1587
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:10,760
we've definitely let's throw the good money after bad now.

1588
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:12,479
I mean, I don't know how you factor that into

1589
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,560
the offseason, but like, the trade they made to get

1590
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:16,680
him is very much part I think of why they

1591
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,319
paid him what they did to keep him.

1592
01:11:18,479 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: And by the way, you let the player who assisted

1593
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,319
on one third of his baskets just leave for nothing,

1594
01:11:23,479 --> 01:11:26,439
for no compensation, you don't get to spin that in

1595
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:29,000
a good way. Okay, Dennis Schuder might be fine. Jee

1596
01:11:29,119 --> 01:11:32,359
McDaniel's nice signing. Your floor spacing is dog shit even

1597
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,399
more than it was so last season. And I like

1598
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,039
the Grady Dick pick, which is the like the saving

1599
01:11:39,079 --> 01:11:42,279
grace of this offseason. But like, this team is going

1600
01:11:42,319 --> 01:11:44,600
through and it's not just this summer. It's now a

1601
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:48,239
year's long existential crisis, and we are far enough removed

1602
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,560
from the bubble escapade, from the season they spent in

1603
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:53,760
Tampa to where they need to have a better hold

1604
01:11:54,039 --> 01:11:57,199
on who they are and where they're going. They do not.

1605
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,920
This was I try to give him AYUJII the benefit

1606
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:04,840
of the doubt, but this was this was This was

1607
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,640
an off season that was just straight up fuck shit.

1608
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:08,680
And I don't say that lightly. They get an F minus.

1609
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,880
This was the worst off season in the league. And

1610
01:12:11,039 --> 01:12:13,199
I don't know, you don't you know what, even if

1611
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:15,000
they turn around and trade Siaka, we get a bunch

1612
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:16,640
of value for him, or if they turn around and

1613
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:18,640
then double down and acquire someone who really helps them,

1614
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,720
it is what they need that's not gonna salvage. They're

1615
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,520
great for me because you let this player who is

1616
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:26,880
mission critical to what you're doing leave for nothing at

1617
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,199
a time when that just doesn't happen anymore. This was

1618
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:33,640
I just don't know. Yes, you have Scotty Barnes, still

1619
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,680
you've not made the spacing environment around him any easier

1620
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,159
to make him work on the ball. And I still

1621
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:42,039
believe it's Scotty Barnes. I think this team has a

1622
01:12:42,079 --> 01:12:44,600
lot of talent, but what is their aim, what is

1623
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,079
their angle? What are they doing. I have no idea.

1624
01:12:47,159 --> 01:12:48,600
And you know what really bugs me is I don't

1625
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,199
think this is a situation where and just based off

1626
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:53,960
people I've asked this question to, we're thirty thousand feet

1627
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:56,079
removed from the situation where it's, oh, well, we don't

1628
01:12:56,079 --> 01:12:58,039
see what they're doing, but there's like something going on. No,

1629
01:12:58,079 --> 01:12:59,920
this team has no fucking clue what it's doing behind

1630
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:02,520
me the scenes. Either they were spinning their wheels. They

1631
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,680
don't know what's happening. This is probably one of the

1632
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:06,640
most inflammatory things I said in the podcast in the

1633
01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:09,399
last year. And I'm not trying to be like full

1634
01:13:10,479 --> 01:13:12,600
talking ahead about it. How are you I was so

1635
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,399
high on the Raptors leading into last season. They I

1636
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,319
was wrong. They were clearly wrong, but like they were

1637
01:13:18,319 --> 01:13:20,359
wrong in a way where they didn't even recalibrate what

1638
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,640
they doubled down and then they still let Fred van

1639
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:26,000
Fleet walk. How how do you give them a higher

1640
01:13:26,039 --> 01:13:28,319
grade than the lowest grade possible? Can we give an

1641
01:13:28,359 --> 01:13:29,560
F minus minus?

1642
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:32,359
Speaker 2: Well I stopped at F, so I'm way higher on

1643
01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:35,359
it than you are. But yeah, it's it's an F

1644
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:39,680
for me. I think the only uh, I mean, it's

1645
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:41,520
like being a dead horse. But like you could go

1646
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,760
down all their major transactions of the last year and say, like, well,

1647
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:46,800
they should have done the opposite, did not trade fredvan

1648
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:47,760
Fleet should have traded Hi.

1649
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,279
Speaker 3: I'm gonna so now. I always I much more than

1650
01:13:50,319 --> 01:13:50,560
you do.

1651
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,239
Speaker 2: Am always of the mind, well you gotta trade this

1652
01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:55,560
guy now, because the possibility of him leaving for nothing

1653
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,840
would just be catastrophic. And it's and you're right, that

1654
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:01,119
doesn't happen that often because you can structure it as

1655
01:14:01,119 --> 01:14:03,359
a sign and trade. There's just there's ways to prevent that.

1656
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:05,640
But now you better believe I'm going to bring up

1657
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:07,840
the Fred van Fleet example a lot when I started

1658
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,760
talking about guys on expiring deals that you should trade

1659
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,520
or you know, certainly trade them before they get to

1660
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,279
the expiring year of their deal. I think you should

1661
01:14:16,279 --> 01:14:18,560
have traded Gary Trent. You should have had some idea

1662
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:21,359
of what like you can't just be in a position

1663
01:14:21,399 --> 01:14:23,039
and this gets to the larger point of like something

1664
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:26,920
feels kind of rotten in Toronto, just like holistically, you

1665
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,439
can't be in a position where I gotta believe they

1666
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,960
were surprised that he opted in. I assume because if

1667
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,800
you if you'd had conversations and that was going to

1668
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,479
be his plan. I think you probably would have traded

1669
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,039
him or you and said, and you just don't make

1670
01:14:40,079 --> 01:14:42,840
the pearl trade full stop, because what what was the

1671
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,920
purpose of that? Like just you were you trying to

1672
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,840
get better last year? Do you think he's a key

1673
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,279
piece of what if he's the piece of a team

1674
01:14:51,359 --> 01:14:53,159
going forward, what is that team supposed to be?

1675
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:55,600
Speaker 1: I think he helped as like an actual screener and

1676
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,640
roller guy. He helped Fred van Fleet. But you turned

1677
01:14:58,680 --> 01:14:59,960
out Lett Woggle.

1678
01:15:00,359 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 3: I was just like it just yeah, so it's an

1679
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:03,279
F for me.

1680
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:05,640
Speaker 2: If I were giving F minuses, this would be the

1681
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,680
worst off This to me is the worst offseason. And

1682
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,359
it's because you you get a little bit of everything,

1683
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:16,319
Like you get the mismanaged assets leading into it, you

1684
01:15:16,359 --> 01:15:19,399
get a bad signing, you get the big picture of

1685
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,119
like this team just does not seem to have a

1686
01:15:22,119 --> 01:15:24,279
handle on like what direction it's going or how to

1687
01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:24,680
get there.

1688
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 3: So you get it all with Toronto.

1689
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,119
Speaker 1: The your Chicago Bulls.

1690
01:15:29,199 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 2: Why are they gotta be all right, I'll take them,

1691
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:32,520
I'll take I'll take the Chicago Bulls.

1692
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,279
Speaker 3: So they did a lot.

1693
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:37,159
Speaker 2: They signed some basketball players, many of whom were already

1694
01:15:37,159 --> 01:15:40,279
on the team, the first of which, in terms of significance,

1695
01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,720
Nicole Vuchvic is back three years sixty million dollar extension.

1696
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,399
Kobe White also back three years and thirty six I

1697
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:49,359
would soon move back three years and twenty one sign

1698
01:15:49,439 --> 01:15:52,079
Javon Carter three years nineteen point five million. Are cornering

1699
01:15:52,119 --> 01:15:55,520
the market on defense first guards. With Alex Crusso already

1700
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,520
on the team, got Tory Craig for the minimum, lost

1701
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,439
another defense first guard and Patrick Beck release, so I

1702
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,640
had to replace him an Javonte Green and Derek Jones Junior.

1703
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,279
I think remains unsigned. You can correct me if that

1704
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:08,760
is the case or is not the case.

1705
01:16:10,119 --> 01:16:11,079
Speaker 3: Did I miss anything?

1706
01:16:12,319 --> 01:16:15,720
Speaker 1: Djj opted in. I believe he's outside. You're right that

1707
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:17,039
last year, you are correct.

1708
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 2: That's pretty much it so a lot of action in

1709
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:24,399
terms of money spent and players acquired slash retained.

1710
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,279
Speaker 3: Are the Chokgobuls better? Doesn't matter? How do you feel

1711
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:32,720
about what they did this offseason?

1712
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,199
Speaker 1: Well, they're the perfect team to talk about. How much

1713
01:16:35,239 --> 01:16:39,039
do you penalize a team that's not acting in a

1714
01:16:39,039 --> 01:16:42,000
way that you would would you control them? It's not

1715
01:16:42,039 --> 01:16:43,520
a matter of what moves did they miss out on.

1716
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,119
It's a matter of the path not yet traveled, which

1717
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:48,359
would be to tear it down, because I think every

1718
01:16:48,359 --> 01:16:51,359
single move they made the Voostal, I still don't love it,

1719
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,279
but it's like that everyone seemed to think that was

1720
01:16:53,279 --> 01:16:55,520
a fine number. I did see what I first reported.

1721
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,760
I thought, I said three years in eighty million, and

1722
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,039
so my response to it was just so inflammatory. I

1723
01:17:01,159 --> 01:17:02,960
love the Javon Carter deal. I think that's a great fit.

1724
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,840
I think they made. Kobe White had a quietly a

1725
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,840
good season last year. Iowe to Tunemu. I can't believe

1726
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,479
no one else wanted to even take a look at him.

1727
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,399
I thought they got good value there. One of the

1728
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,319
things I'm questioning though I know nothing about him, so

1729
01:17:14,319 --> 01:17:16,960
I didn't judge this too harshly. But why was number

1730
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:20,119
thirty five Julian Phillips worth second rounders in twenty six

1731
01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:22,880
and twenty seven? Feels like a very you know, are

1732
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,560
the balls really gonna be that good? Then that felt

1733
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:28,199
like a little steeper price to pay. I don't know

1734
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:30,159
what to give this team. Is there is there a

1735
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:32,560
move that they made not that they didn't make? Is

1736
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,079
there a move that they made that you actively dislike.

1737
01:17:36,039 --> 01:17:40,359
Speaker 2: I'd say the Vucevich deal comes the closest to that,

1738
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:43,199
But that is going to tie into the like, what's

1739
01:17:43,279 --> 01:17:46,159
the bigger plan here kind of line of criticism than

1740
01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:49,039
the years and dollars for this particular player, Like it's

1741
01:17:49,079 --> 01:17:53,399
kind like he's probably worth that, right, Like in a vacuum,

1742
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,680
I think he's actually, he's definitely worth that in a vacuum.

1743
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:59,840
He's a good player, good offensive player. Somehow the Bulls

1744
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,720
have had good defensive numbers. That's probably because Alex Caruso

1745
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,640
is involved with Vucevic out there, So it's like, that's

1746
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,399
that's the closest I can get to ooh, that's just

1747
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:13,239
objectively a bad move, right, And I don't even feel

1748
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:15,760
I don't even think I would, you know, if press

1749
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:18,640
would say that, that's just, oh, that's bad, Like you

1750
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,840
probably can't trade them for value at that number, So

1751
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:24,479
that isn't great. But it ties in more to the

1752
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:26,479
the first thing you led with, which was like how

1753
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:28,840
closely did the Bulls moves adhere to like what I

1754
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:30,600
would have done if I were in charge of the team,

1755
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,439
And in that sense, they're way off. But a lot

1756
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,560
of that is just it's got to do with like

1757
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:37,960
the team that they've built over the last three four years.

1758
01:18:38,039 --> 01:18:40,720
It's just you're they're in a situation that I wouldn't

1759
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:43,680
want to get into because they're just in the middle

1760
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:47,000
and everything they did this I think you look at

1761
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:48,119
all those signings and it's like.

1762
01:18:48,119 --> 01:18:49,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, they might be better.

1763
01:18:49,239 --> 01:18:52,319
Speaker 2: They could be better this year significantly even maybe, but

1764
01:18:52,359 --> 01:18:56,199
it's still middleish to me. And so I'll just say

1765
01:18:56,239 --> 01:19:00,680
it's a D plus. And that's with saying that if

1766
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,840
you go down the line, like itemize their transactions, there's

1767
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:06,600
nothing that makes you say, oh my god, this is CTUs.

1768
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:09,479
This is horrible, like they've they've ruined the It's just

1769
01:19:10,159 --> 01:19:12,319
the team is going to be roughly what it was

1770
01:19:12,399 --> 01:19:14,880
last year and the year before, and that's not a

1771
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,479
place I'm interested in being if I can get myself

1772
01:19:17,479 --> 01:19:17,960
out of that.

1773
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:21,199
Speaker 1: I've wanted to see minus in part because not that

1774
01:19:21,279 --> 01:19:23,039
they didn't tear it down, but if you were going

1775
01:19:23,079 --> 01:19:26,199
to go this route, you still didn't address your biggest needs,

1776
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:27,760
which I guess their biggest need was we want to

1777
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,520
avoid the tax, which they did, congratulations since and they

1778
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:36,439
but like you needed shooting volume. Maybe another point guard

1779
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:38,640
in a here, could you diversify your front court rotation

1780
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,479
at all? They checked none of those bosses, just because

1781
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:43,760
I think Javon Carter comes closest. But he's not extra

1782
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:45,840
ball handling really. I mean he will give you some

1783
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,039
extra shooting, but like Tory Craig is not that guy

1784
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:51,319
and he doesn't. And again I like the signing, but

1785
01:19:51,399 --> 01:19:53,279
like you, they should have been a team, and it

1786
01:19:53,319 --> 01:19:54,960
could have been because they weren't going to spend that money.

1787
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:56,720
They should have been in on like the Max True

1788
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:58,720
sweep stakes. He would have done a lot of wonders

1789
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:00,640
for them. And so if you want to be a

1790
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,039
team that's better, go ahead and act like a team

1791
01:20:03,039 --> 01:20:05,880
that's better. Stop penny pinching just to avoid the tax.

1792
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,439
And so, yes, they made reasonable signings that we can

1793
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:10,520
all like in a vacuum, but I don't know that

1794
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:14,640
they're much better and look much better than a playing team.

1795
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:18,399
Is not something to write home about either. And I

1796
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,800
think it's close to an average offseason because nothing they

1797
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:25,119
did was below average. But for them to decide that

1798
01:20:25,199 --> 01:20:28,640
we're not going to start over or more realistically explore

1799
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:30,880
a rebuild, and then not be aggressive and trying to

1800
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,640
get better. It's just like that's a miss m.

1801
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

1802
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,159
Speaker 2: I think if you start to think about the counterfactual,

1803
01:20:37,239 --> 01:20:40,199
it's like, well, if they're gonna do what we want

1804
01:20:40,239 --> 01:20:43,079
them to do, what was the market for Jamar de Rosen,

1805
01:20:43,199 --> 01:20:45,840
what was the market for zach Lavine. And it's possible

1806
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:47,399
that they could have traded those guys and we would

1807
01:20:47,399 --> 01:20:49,439
be just as critical because they didn't get enough for

1808
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:51,079
them in our opinions, But.

1809
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:53,319
Speaker 1: Or could have been the Wizard's route of oh, we're

1810
01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:55,600
excited that they finally chose a direction outside of the

1811
01:20:55,640 --> 01:20:56,159
sub middle.

1812
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 2: I think that's more likely had they just gutted the

1813
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,520
team and got what they could get for their expensive veterans,

1814
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,920
I think I probably would have had a higher grade almost,

1815
01:21:04,239 --> 01:21:06,560
you know, unless they just I'm trying to think of

1816
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:08,399
a situation where you trade zach Lavine and just like

1817
01:21:08,439 --> 01:21:11,239
get nothing, which that's not realistic because you get something

1818
01:21:11,279 --> 01:21:12,239
for him, you know, you end.

1819
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:14,039
Speaker 1: Up getting at least three the equivalent of three first

1820
01:21:14,079 --> 01:21:15,199
round picks for Sacklavine.

1821
01:21:15,279 --> 01:21:16,680
Speaker 3: I would have felt better had they done that.

1822
01:21:17,039 --> 01:21:19,399
Speaker 2: But you know, if if you're interested in being five

1823
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:21,640
hundred or maybe a little better than that, then this

1824
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:22,439
is the team for you.

1825
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,000
Speaker 1: Like, what are the odds that they use their disabled

1826
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,439
player exception they got from Blodzo last than zero.

1827
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,319
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, can I go like into negative numbers?

1828
01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:32,039
Is that allowed?

1829
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 1: I will take us to the Cleveland Cavaliers. I assume

1830
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:37,960
their off season is going to be more upbeat. They

1831
01:21:38,079 --> 01:21:40,760
drafted Emity Bates and signed them to a two way contract.

1832
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:42,880
They signed Georgiayang to a three year, twenty five point

1833
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:47,279
five million dollar deal that declines in salary. They acquired

1834
01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:49,439
Max Struce on a four year, sixty four million dollar

1835
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,159
deal for the Lakers' twenty twenty six second round pick.

1836
01:21:52,399 --> 01:21:55,079
They signed Isaiah Mobley and Craig Porter Junior to two

1837
01:21:55,119 --> 01:21:58,079
way contracts. They re signed Cowris Lavert to a two year,

1838
01:21:58,159 --> 01:22:00,680
thirty two million dollar deal. They signed Ti Jerome to

1839
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,199
a two year, five million dollar deal that's fully guaranteed.

1840
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,439
They traded cash to Utah for Damian Jones and as

1841
01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:09,560
another note here, Ricky Rubio is taking time away from

1842
01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:12,279
basketball to work on his mental health. It's not clear

1843
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,199
whether he will be with the team when training camp opens.

1844
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:17,640
Did I miss anything? Where do you land on this offseason?

1845
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 2: Grant Hi, you got everything that I had, plus Damian Jones,

1846
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:25,000
so I glossed over. Did you mention some of the losses?

1847
01:22:25,079 --> 01:22:27,479
Not none of them than huge, but Robin Lopez, Dylan Windler,

1848
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,880
Danny Green or Lopez and Windler gone, Danny Green and

1849
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:35,479
Netto remain unsigned, not needle movers. I love their offseason.

1850
01:22:35,479 --> 01:22:36,239
Speaker 3: I think they did.

1851
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 2: You know, I guess, I guess. If you're gonna be critical,

1852
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,000
it's well Max Strus, like.

1853
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:41,520
Speaker 3: Is he exactly what they needed?

1854
01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 1: Is he?

1855
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:42,920
Speaker 3: Is he big enough?

1856
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 2: Is he good enough defensively to fill that like glaring

1857
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,359
void at the three that just was such a piece

1858
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:54,439
of why the Cavs underwhelmed in the playoffs. I think

1859
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,600
he's about as good as they could have done realistically.

1860
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,800
So like, if we're gonna try to be fair about,

1861
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,000
you know, what did a team do relative to what

1862
01:23:05,039 --> 01:23:08,000
it was capable of doing? I think Struce is really like,

1863
01:23:08,079 --> 01:23:11,960
as you know, just barring like pie in the sky stuff.

1864
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:13,760
That's that's as good as you're gonna do to fill

1865
01:23:13,760 --> 01:23:16,920
that void. Not perfect, but you know, hard hard to

1866
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:17,640
quibble with that.

1867
01:23:18,119 --> 01:23:20,239
Speaker 1: You weren't going to get someone who defends like Isaac

1868
01:23:20,239 --> 01:23:23,159
Okoro but shoots like ed shoots like Max s Druce. Right,

1869
01:23:23,720 --> 01:23:25,359
first of all, that player wasn't on the market this

1870
01:23:25,399 --> 01:23:27,279
summer anyway, but you weren't going to get that with

1871
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:29,359
having the tools you did to work with.

1872
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just thinking of comps, like there aren't even

1873
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:33,760
really any good comps, but just in terms of like

1874
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:34,840
what guys got paid.

1875
01:23:35,319 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 3: You know Cam Johnson we talk all the time.

1876
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 2: He's not quite a three any but like he got

1877
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:42,800
you know, four years and ninety like you just that's

1878
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,800
you couldn't have gotten a guy like that for the

1879
01:23:46,159 --> 01:23:48,159
the with the tools that the Cavs had.

1880
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 3: I don't love Lavert, but it's a short deal.

1881
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,399
Speaker 2: Two years, thirty two millions, fine, Like that's great for yeah,

1882
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:58,520
sixth seventh guy. Maybe that can run the team if

1883
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:02,359
you know one of or both Garland and Mitchell are out.

1884
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:05,439
Speaker 3: Niang three for twenty five.

1885
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,000
Speaker 2: Three to twenty five seems a little rich, but that's

1886
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:10,079
just more shooting. And if you're gonna play two bigs

1887
01:24:10,159 --> 01:24:12,399
and Evan Mobley doesn't develop a three point shot as

1888
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:15,199
quickly as someone prefer like, I think Niang is gonna

1889
01:24:15,199 --> 01:24:17,880
bring real value and the good back line defense is

1890
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:19,760
going to mitigate some of his struggles to stay in

1891
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,680
front of guys on the perimeter, So there's the theory

1892
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:23,680
of him on the team works.

1893
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:24,680
Speaker 3: It's just a little costly.

1894
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:29,279
Speaker 2: So I have this down as a B plus, but

1895
01:24:29,319 --> 01:24:30,880
I think I need to go to an A minus.

1896
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:34,479
But I'm hesitant because I have so many high grades

1897
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,399
in this division that I don't want to do it.

1898
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:38,880
But to be fair to the Cavs, this feels more

1899
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:40,840
like an A range grade than a B range grade.

1900
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,199
Speaker 1: To me, I would be plus just because the George

1901
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:45,640
and the A sidy makes me a little uncomfortable in

1902
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,239
the sense that are we going to see him play

1903
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,960
some three and then he's not someone who rebounds well

1904
01:24:51,039 --> 01:24:52,720
enough to make the mobile at five? You and it's

1905
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,319
that much better there, and I think you look got okay, Well,

1906
01:24:56,359 --> 01:24:58,600
what else were they supposed to do with that money?

1907
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,880
I just like, would you be better off without George

1908
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:05,720
Yang in? In general? So I don't I don't like.

1909
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:07,479
It's it's more shooting, like you said, and there's real

1910
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:09,520
volume there. Both him and Max Shrew's I think average

1911
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:11,960
about nine plus attempts per thirty six minutes from deep.

1912
01:25:12,199 --> 01:25:14,720
They totally needed that. I do think Niang is probably

1913
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,680
not someone who's in your playoff rotation, at least not

1914
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:19,439
anywhere near prominently, and sort of give him three guaranteed

1915
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:22,560
years for you know, quite a bit of like quite

1916
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:24,600
a bit of money. It's not you know, it's it's

1917
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,199
not nothing in the grand scheme of the cap, but

1918
01:25:27,239 --> 01:25:30,000
you're not paying him nothing at this point. You gave

1919
01:25:30,079 --> 01:25:32,880
him most of the non tax payer at Emily. So

1920
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,039
I that's I'm just trying to poke holes and I

1921
01:25:36,039 --> 01:25:37,920
don't think there's anything out there that they necessarily could

1922
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,920
have done better. But you probably could have gotten another

1923
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:43,640
like Biggish type and just sort of plug that hole

1924
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,399
and move forward for cheaper. And so that's like the

1925
01:25:46,399 --> 01:25:48,439
one to merit I have for them, But i'd b

1926
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,720
plus a very strong gravelim. I think Max Strews is

1927
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:51,520
a fantastic fit.

1928
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1929
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:55,159
Speaker 1: Do I have the pistons or do you? As we

1930
01:25:55,199 --> 01:25:56,720
move on, you have you have the pistons?

1931
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:57,119
Speaker 3: All right?

1932
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:00,279
Speaker 2: Happy, happy Dan, really happy to have the pistol since

1933
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:02,880
one of my favorite off seasons drafted the sar Thompson

1934
01:26:03,039 --> 01:26:05,840
number five, but before that hired Money Williams, so the

1935
01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:08,039
richest head coaching contract in NBA history.

1936
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:11,279
Speaker 3: That is a huge deal. I would love to know

1937
01:26:11,359 --> 01:26:11,920
the mechanics.

1938
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 2: I think there's been some reporting on it, but it's like,

1939
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,239
how do he was never gonna say no to that

1940
01:26:17,239 --> 01:26:18,760
that amount of money wasn't The.

1941
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:21,319
Speaker 1: Report was basically he tried to say no. They made

1942
01:26:21,319 --> 01:26:22,199
it so that he couldn't.

1943
01:26:22,279 --> 01:26:26,039
Speaker 2: But credit the Pistons for realize, like, there's not you know,

1944
01:26:26,119 --> 01:26:28,359
there's all these salary constraints, and all we've spent the

1945
01:26:28,399 --> 01:26:30,439
last several months talking about is how the CBA makes

1946
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:32,279
it harder to build a good team and keep it together.

1947
01:26:32,319 --> 01:26:34,399
It's like, you can spend whatever you want on a coach,

1948
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,439
so do it, because it especially for a team like

1949
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:40,279
the Pistons that's a ton of young guys that wants

1950
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:42,439
to be good, that has operated kind of weirdly at

1951
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:45,239
times as a team that's like, well, we're gonna keep

1952
01:26:45,319 --> 01:26:47,840
boy on Bogdanovitch and we're gonna extend him because he's

1953
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:50,640
valuable and he's gonna make us bet Like this is

1954
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,840
the move so so many I have no problem with

1955
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,680
paying money. Williams as much as you possibly can. Brought

1956
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:58,880
in Joe Harris, brought in Monte Morris with seconds attached

1957
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:01,840
to Harris and all costs was a future second to

1958
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:05,760
get Morris signed Beef Stu Isaiah Stewart four years sixty

1959
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:07,960
million could go up to sixty four. I think there's

1960
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:09,760
a team option on the last year of that, which

1961
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:10,279
is awesome.

1962
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:13,840
Speaker 3: I just I'll throw it to you.

1963
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,479
Speaker 2: But I struggled to find fault with almost anything that

1964
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:17,279
the Pistons did.

1965
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 1: Waving R. J. Hampton was unforgivable. I know, so this

1966
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:25,840
is not a real to burant for me. But they

1967
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,079
gave up like kind of a lot to just get

1968
01:27:28,119 --> 01:27:32,439
Marcus asser At was that seven? It was just they

1969
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:34,880
number thirty one in two seconds. I guess it's not

1970
01:27:35,079 --> 01:27:37,359
like a huge deal, so I need to That's just

1971
01:27:37,399 --> 01:27:40,640
something to monitor. But I love everything they did. And

1972
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:43,640
anyone who says that them wasting their turn their cap

1973
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,479
space basically into Joe Harris and Monte Morris is a failure.

1974
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:49,000
It's not because who are they supposed to get if

1975
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:51,079
they wanted Cam Johnson? Guess what the next word letting

1976
01:27:51,119 --> 01:27:52,960
him leave. So it's not like they allowed the Nets

1977
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:55,880
to keep camp Johnson. Camp Johnson was just never leaving Brooklyn.

1978
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:58,720
That's how restricted free agency works. I like the idea

1979
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:02,119
of rolling over their flexibility into next summer. I love

1980
01:28:02,399 --> 01:28:05,079
Theosar Thompson pick. I think you could argue, well, he

1981
01:28:05,239 --> 01:28:07,239
was the only pick on the board. It was when

1982
01:28:07,239 --> 01:28:08,880
you look at the makeup of this team, they might

1983
01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,439
have decided, oh, do we trade down? Do we go

1984
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,359
with someone who might provide a little bit more spacing

1985
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:15,479
right off the bat. I'm a big believer in Nasar

1986
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:18,600
Thompson as a defender, and I think I don't know

1987
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:20,039
what he's going to be as a shooter, but I

1988
01:28:20,079 --> 01:28:21,960
have more faith and I've said it countless times on

1989
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,479
his jumper than Ahmed Thompson's jumper. I think that the

1990
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,840
speed is at least there. Can they make some tweaks

1991
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,840
to the form and the release point. We'll have to

1992
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:32,319
wait and see. But I loved everything about their offseason

1993
01:28:32,399 --> 01:28:34,800
and I think, look, the Beasts doing extension is fine.

1994
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:36,760
He is not. When you talk about how sort of

1995
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:39,239
top seat turvey they are upfront, He's not really a

1996
01:28:39,319 --> 01:28:42,199
part of that because he comes closest to allowing them

1997
01:28:42,239 --> 01:28:44,000
to make do a big lineup's work where it's oh,

1998
01:28:44,039 --> 01:28:46,920
he can step out and take the occasional three and

1999
01:28:47,079 --> 01:28:49,359
four and sixty is just it sounds like a lot,

2000
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:51,720
but with the cap going up, it's just ten percent

2001
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:53,399
of the cap at one point is what it's going

2002
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:56,359
to be. Whatever. Yeah, and I think he's a hustle

2003
01:28:56,479 --> 01:28:58,560
enough player when you look at him on a defense

2004
01:28:58,600 --> 01:29:00,840
specifically that I I think it had to be good

2005
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:03,880
for you. I will say, I hope that you don't

2006
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:07,319
go out and get Joe Harris, Monte Morris, keep boy

2007
01:29:07,399 --> 01:29:10,119
On Madonovich and Alec Berks. If you don't intend on,

2008
01:29:10,279 --> 01:29:13,520
We're gonna try and surround Kate Cunningham and or Sar

2009
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,199
Thompson and or Jane and Ivy with as much shooting

2010
01:29:16,199 --> 01:29:20,119
as possible to wear one Joe throw the dual big

2011
01:29:20,159 --> 01:29:21,840
stuff out the window, and like we're gonna see boy

2012
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,880
On Madonovich play the four, maybe Joe Harris play some four.

2013
01:29:25,039 --> 01:29:27,760
And then we're gonna see some staggering lineups where it's hey,

2014
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:30,880
it's Jalen Duran and it's Kate Cunningham and all shooting,

2015
01:29:31,119 --> 01:29:34,079
or it's uh, maybe it's Kate Cunningham Isaiah Stewart and

2016
01:29:34,159 --> 01:29:36,279
then it's still all shooting around them, and then mix

2017
01:29:36,359 --> 01:29:38,359
a match with Arsar Thompson there where it's if you

2018
01:29:38,399 --> 01:29:41,159
want to have Thompson and Ivy and Kate Cunningham, you

2019
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:42,680
want two of them on the court at the same time,

2020
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:45,000
well then your big man's gonna be We're gonna experiment

2021
01:29:45,039 --> 01:29:46,760
with Isaiah Stewart at the five and then a whole

2022
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:50,199
bunch of shooters. So I hope that's what this spells.

2023
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:52,119
I know a lot of people are still assuming that

2024
01:29:52,159 --> 01:29:54,319
they're just gonna start. They were starting James Wiseman and

2025
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:55,960
Jail and Duran by the end of the year. I

2026
01:29:56,079 --> 01:29:58,039
hope that's not what we see. That has nothing to

2027
01:29:58,119 --> 01:30:00,560
do with their offseason, and it's you could say, oh,

2028
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,960
they should have traded Boyana Badanovic. You get the same

2029
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,560
about for him leading into February as you would have

2030
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:09,239
gotten for him in July. So I think they're a

2031
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:11,600
I think they're they're a they're a off season. Their

2032
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:13,680
off season wasn't A. I just struggle to go A

2033
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:17,680
plus because I don't know enough about Marcus Sasser, but

2034
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:19,560
I haven't seen anything that makes me think, oh, like

2035
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:21,760
this is that's that's a move that you definitely needed

2036
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:23,520
to make it. I know you're you're like giggling.

2037
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:27,039
Speaker 2: I just I just want to write down, remember to

2038
01:30:27,279 --> 01:30:31,079
monitor Marcus Sasser because you made it a real fa No.

2039
01:30:31,239 --> 01:30:33,039
I no, Look, it's like that's what you have to

2040
01:30:33,079 --> 01:30:35,520
do when you're looking for reasons to criticize this offseason

2041
01:30:35,600 --> 01:30:35,800
for them.

2042
01:30:36,119 --> 01:30:36,439
Speaker 1: I didn't.

2043
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,079
Speaker 2: I don't think I gave any a pluses I gave.

2044
01:30:38,199 --> 01:30:40,760
I gave the Pistons of Flat A probably would be

2045
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,039
my A plus if I if I were to give one.

2046
01:30:43,279 --> 01:30:45,359
Speaker 1: Right they did they have the I mean, we don't

2047
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:47,479
want to spoil the Western Conference here, but did they

2048
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,840
have like the best off season of anybody they might have?

2049
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 3: I think it's I mean, they're certainly in the conversation.

2050
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 2: I haven't looked hard enough at the West yet to know,

2051
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:56,760
but I think of the East, I mean, yeah, we

2052
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,239
probably shouldn't. I mean, actually, the next team we're going

2053
01:30:59,279 --> 01:31:01,800
to talk about is kind of to me like you

2054
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,680
could you could have a conversation about whether they they

2055
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:06,039
had just as good of an offseason.

2056
01:31:06,119 --> 01:31:08,079
Speaker 3: So let's get to the Indiana Pacers.

2057
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: Are they mine? Are you so o? Their mind?

2058
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:11,720
Speaker 4: So?

2059
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:15,159
Speaker 1: The Indiana Pacers traded number eight blow Coola Bali to

2060
01:31:15,279 --> 01:31:18,239
Washington for number nine, Jarres Walker and Sacramento's twenty thirty

2061
01:31:18,279 --> 01:31:21,159
second rounder. They drafted Ben Sheppard at number twenty six.

2062
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:24,600
They were part of like the Denver Nuggets whole Shenanigans.

2063
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:27,159
They traded number twenty nine at number thirty two for

2064
01:31:27,359 --> 01:31:30,119
number forty seven cash and at twenty twenty four first

2065
01:31:30,399 --> 01:31:33,079
it's gonna be the least favorable of OKC the Clippers,

2066
01:31:33,119 --> 01:31:37,319
Houston or Utah. They traded Christa Marte to the Kigs

2067
01:31:37,359 --> 01:31:40,720
for Dallas' twenty twenty eight second and Sacramento's twenty thirty second.

2068
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,000
That's how they helped complete the Black Koula Bali deal.

2069
01:31:44,359 --> 01:31:46,039
And then they signed Bruce Brown to a two year,

2070
01:31:46,159 --> 01:31:48,880
forty five million dollar contract with a team option on

2071
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:52,000
the final season. And they traded two least favorable second

2072
01:31:52,079 --> 01:31:54,279
round picks in twenty eight and twenty nine to New

2073
01:31:54,399 --> 01:31:57,039
York for Obi Toppin other notes that are just worth

2074
01:31:57,119 --> 01:31:59,760
considering because it might show where they viewed themselves. They

2075
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:02,920
have been linked to the Pascal Siakam trade sweepstakes.

2076
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,840
Speaker 2: Uh Max Tyres Halburn, I don't know if you mentioned

2077
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,880
that one. That was another one that was my only

2078
01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:14,199
only big item feel really good about this offseason. It's

2079
01:32:14,239 --> 01:32:16,159
not quite as like you know, the hits don't just

2080
01:32:16,239 --> 01:32:18,479
keep coming quite like they did for Detroit before them.

2081
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:21,079
Speaker 3: But like the big stuff, I think I like.

2082
01:32:21,359 --> 01:32:23,159
Speaker 2: I think I probably like Jeris Walker a little more

2083
01:32:23,199 --> 01:32:28,840
than you do, at least Hendricks. Oh, I mean, well,

2084
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,560
I know, I know you don't like anyone more than

2085
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,840
Taylor Hendricks. So I feel like that's an unfair comparison. Uh, yeah,

2086
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,439
that that's fair. I guess if no, I think I

2087
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:39,239
like the fit, I like Jeris Walker. Again, don't draft

2088
01:32:39,279 --> 01:32:40,800
for fit, don't draft for fit. And here I am

2089
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,039
like saying, oh, he makes sense next to Miles Turner.

2090
01:32:43,119 --> 01:32:45,640
So yeah, as always, I don't ever know what I'm

2091
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:51,079
talking about. The Bruce Brown deal, I mean, one of

2092
01:32:51,119 --> 01:32:53,880
the best deals signed this offseason, just you know, it

2093
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:56,000
seems like a lot of money up front, just on

2094
01:32:56,039 --> 01:32:58,119
an annual basis, but it's like you get the team

2095
01:32:58,159 --> 01:32:58,840
option on that.

2096
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,399
Speaker 1: And it's just like if you need to make a trade,

2097
01:33:01,399 --> 01:33:04,079
it's just like you just have this monster expiring contract there.

2098
01:33:04,119 --> 01:33:06,319
But I'm a player, like in the same vein of

2099
01:33:06,319 --> 01:33:06,880
Buddy Hill.

2100
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:11,319
Speaker 2: He's really useful universal appeal for like Bruce Brown, there's

2101
01:33:11,399 --> 01:33:13,000
I find me the team where they're like, I don't

2102
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:14,520
know what we would do with Bruce Brown like there,

2103
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:18,800
it doesn't exist in Atlanta. I just I don't know,

2104
01:33:19,199 --> 01:33:22,760
start him at the three figured out? Yeah, I I

2105
01:33:23,119 --> 01:33:25,279
think I think Toppin now you can't talk about fit

2106
01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:27,560
because he's not a rookie. I think Toppin makes a

2107
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,920
lot of sense with just the style they want to play,

2108
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,279
like just run, just go, get up and down the

2109
01:33:32,319 --> 01:33:34,000
floor and Tyres Haliburton's gonna find you.

2110
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,079
Speaker 3: I think you know this.

2111
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:39,279
Speaker 2: This We've criticized a lot of teams for sort of

2112
01:33:39,399 --> 01:33:41,039
like what's the plan? Like what do you what's the

2113
01:33:41,119 --> 01:33:42,560
plan here? Like how do you want to play?

2114
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:43,399
Speaker 3: What are your goals?

2115
01:33:43,439 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 2: Like standings wise, the Pacers really feel like a team

2116
01:33:46,960 --> 01:33:48,760
that understands what they are and like how they want

2117
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:51,640
to play, what they want to do. So for me,

2118
01:33:52,119 --> 01:33:56,520
I gave him a name minus. I guess maybe maybe

2119
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,479
that's a nod to Walker. Could have been somebody else,

2120
01:34:00,079 --> 01:34:02,359
you know, could have been Hendricks. But I mean it's

2121
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:06,119
it's so early. I don't know just getting Haliburton, getting Brown.

2122
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 1: To that deal, And if I'm not mistaken, there was

2123
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:09,880
no player option on the Halliburton deal, right.

2124
01:34:10,119 --> 01:34:13,760
Speaker 3: I don't think so even if there were like, I mean, yeah,

2125
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:14,359
it's just no.

2126
01:34:14,479 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's like a that's a sign that

2127
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:19,920
contract no matter what. But if yeah, Potrack's not showing

2128
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,479
a player option, So if you don't get up, that's

2129
01:34:22,520 --> 01:34:24,560
just that's a net plus where it's just like that

2130
01:34:24,680 --> 01:34:26,960
you give Tyreus Alburt and that deal regardless. But if

2131
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:30,840
there's no player option, that's that's an even bigger win. Yeah.

2132
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:32,239
Speaker 2: No, that that's all I got on them. I mean

2133
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:34,359
they're up there with the Pistons, I think certainly in

2134
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:35,600
in this division.

2135
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:37,880
Speaker 1: I gave them an A by this because I really

2136
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:41,000
do believe they missed on Taylor Hendrix, and that'll be

2137
01:34:41,079 --> 01:34:43,680
something that Okay, if they didn't, they should have gotten

2138
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,159
an A or like you can equipple over that. I

2139
01:34:46,399 --> 01:34:50,640
just I Caitlin Cooper has done at least two fantastic

2140
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:52,840
breakdowns on Jarvis Walker, one leading into the draft and

2141
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,920
then one that was during Summer League and the defensive

2142
01:34:55,920 --> 01:34:58,079
pressure that he gives you, and then even just malleability.

2143
01:34:58,119 --> 01:35:00,680
I totally understand it. I don't know that Taylor Hendricks

2144
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:03,279
would have given you much fewer options defensively, and it

2145
01:35:03,319 --> 01:35:06,319
would have come with I think a cleaner offensive fit

2146
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:09,079
to where it's just like you now, you're continuously having

2147
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:11,720
these other if you want to call them bigs or

2148
01:35:11,800 --> 01:35:15,039
forwards next to Miles Turner, where unless they're undersized, they're

2149
01:35:15,119 --> 01:35:17,319
just not Like Obi Top is not a plus shooter

2150
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:19,560
right now, and like if you want to play Jalen Smith,

2151
01:35:19,600 --> 01:35:21,399
that's not a plus shooter. If you even figure that

2152
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:24,119
Isaiah Jackson needs to factor into this, that's not someone

2153
01:35:24,159 --> 01:35:27,119
who's gonna be in that department. So I really thought that.

2154
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:30,479
I also think that Hendrix's long term because of his

2155
01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:33,399
rim protection, might be better equipped to play the five.

2156
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:35,439
And that's just we don't know enough about them. People

2157
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:37,239
have followed those guys for way longer than I have,

2158
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:39,439
so they can disagree there. That's just why I went

2159
01:35:39,479 --> 01:35:41,760
to an A minus. There's literally nothing else I might

2160
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:43,920
even being glad to go with A because of the

2161
01:35:44,119 --> 01:35:45,560
you don't have a player option on Tyre, like you

2162
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,279
can just have Tyres Albert now for the next six years,

2163
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:51,039
which gives you, for being honest, five years before you

2164
01:35:51,079 --> 01:35:53,520
would need to make any sort of real decision on Okay,

2165
01:35:53,560 --> 01:35:55,199
where are we? And I think what they also did

2166
01:35:55,359 --> 01:35:57,399
was nice. Not only are they rolling over flexibility in

2167
01:35:57,399 --> 01:36:00,279
the next season, but like their timelines a very open

2168
01:36:00,359 --> 01:36:03,039
ended where's we could be good and then maybe that's

2169
01:36:03,039 --> 01:36:04,640
when we go and make the pass, go see Akham

2170
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:06,479
trade if if he's still available mid season or he

2171
01:36:06,560 --> 01:36:09,199
make another trade, or like, okay, this is another year.

2172
01:36:09,279 --> 01:36:11,600
But there's a real, real theory to what we're doing.

2173
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:13,760
Fans are still gonna tune in and maybe we'll be

2174
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:16,399
fringe playing again and we're gonna have another high draft pick.

2175
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:19,119
They're just there's a lot of different directions they could travel.

2176
01:36:19,159 --> 01:36:21,359
They did not limit themselves in any way, shape or

2177
01:36:21,399 --> 01:36:22,399
form with anything they did.

2178
01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:25,359
Speaker 2: I think they're interesting because, oh, it feels like they're

2179
01:36:25,359 --> 01:36:27,359
a young team, which is just I guess because of

2180
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:31,119
Haliburton's age. But like Helburn's really good now. Halburn is

2181
01:36:31,119 --> 01:36:34,239
an All Star player today. And you know, Benedic Matherin

2182
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:36,600
has limitations, but like the things he does well, he

2183
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:39,239
does well right now. Unless you think, oh, we're waiting for.

2184
01:36:39,319 --> 01:36:41,319
Speaker 3: Him to become like a you.

2185
01:36:41,359 --> 01:36:44,600
Speaker 2: Know, an all fringe All Star starter, like I don't.

2186
01:36:44,680 --> 01:36:46,199
I don't think that's in the cards for mather And

2187
01:36:46,239 --> 01:36:49,000
I think Matherin is like a like stick a dynamite

2188
01:36:49,199 --> 01:36:52,039
six man scorer and he's that now. I mean he

2189
01:36:52,439 --> 01:36:54,279
trailed off, but like you get you get the point.

2190
01:36:54,079 --> 01:36:57,359
Speaker 1: And he's improved his passing for sure. I think you

2191
01:36:57,479 --> 01:36:59,760
mentioned Maths makes me think of this. I applaud the

2192
01:36:59,760 --> 01:37:02,560
page they are, they were, and they will continue to

2193
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:05,520
be very i'll say creative or innovative with their lineups,

2194
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:08,760
but there's still absence of true sized wig players here

2195
01:37:09,119 --> 01:37:11,560
where it's okay, you're good to see Bruce Brown and

2196
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:13,399
Buddy Heal and math like a lot of those guys

2197
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:16,560
play the three and deb Hard defending fours. It's just like,

2198
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:18,640
aside from Aaron E. Smith, who is the other just

2199
01:37:18,760 --> 01:37:21,479
wig on this team? It's not even is Ben Sheppard?

2200
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:23,439
That guy is probably Walker.

2201
01:37:23,479 --> 01:37:25,680
Speaker 3: You probably just have Walker guard everybody, right, Is that

2202
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:26,600
is that the theory?

2203
01:37:27,319 --> 01:37:29,920
Speaker 1: Right? I guess So that's a question. But I don't

2204
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:31,640
know what, Like you weren't going to get a better

2205
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:35,239
quote unquote wig than Bruce Brown on the free agent market,

2206
01:37:35,319 --> 01:37:36,399
So it's just a question.

2207
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:38,600
Speaker 2: No, That's that's the point I'm making, is like it

2208
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:40,760
seems like a young team, so maybe like, well what's

2209
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,560
Bruce Brown doing here? And like does does what we

2210
01:37:45,079 --> 01:37:47,159
what's the what do we bring veterans on? It's like, no, no,

2211
01:37:47,319 --> 01:37:49,479
the Pacers could just compete for a playoff spot now

2212
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,880
and then when Bruce Brown is gone, when whether they

2213
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:53,479
trade them or they keep them for the two years.

2214
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,039
You know, Terrys Haliburn's like twenty five and a half

2215
01:37:56,119 --> 01:37:58,800
years old by then, and you're still just you're you're

2216
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:00,520
ready to continue competing.

2217
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,720
Speaker 1: So they certainly have a case for best offseason in

2218
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:04,720
the NBA for sure.

2219
01:38:05,039 --> 01:38:08,000
Speaker 2: The last team we have is the Milwaukee Bucks in

2220
01:38:08,079 --> 01:38:12,560
this division. Start with the big stuff. Fired Mike Budenholzer.

2221
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:16,079
Sort of controversial, I guess, But at the same time,

2222
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:20,279
you know, or is this one of those where we say,

2223
01:38:20,359 --> 01:38:23,319
like it's Kevin Durant's shoe size determined, you know, bought

2224
01:38:23,600 --> 01:38:24,840
Mike Budenholzer like two more.

2225
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,359
Speaker 3: Years, Like yeah, we need to trot that out.

2226
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I wasn't a fan of the firing, but

2227
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:31,000
I don't know enough about Adrian and you're gonna get

2228
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,960
through they hired Adrian Griffin, right, we know less.

2229
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:36,439
Speaker 2: About Adrian Griffin, So I mean that's the that's the

2230
01:38:36,520 --> 01:38:39,000
other issue. But it's one of those things that kind

2231
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,640
of felt like you get it right. It felt like

2232
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:44,279
it was time. There's been enough whispers, and you gotta

2233
01:38:44,399 --> 01:38:46,279
if you're gonna change something, you can't change the team.

2234
01:38:46,279 --> 01:38:47,159
Speaker 3: You gotta change the coach.

2235
01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 1: I get it.

2236
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:49,479
Speaker 3: It's unfortunate. It may not be an upgrade.

2237
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:53,199
Speaker 2: We'll see brought back Chris Middleton three years ninety three

2238
01:38:53,239 --> 01:38:55,920
with a player option. Recent Brooklopez two years forty eight.

2239
01:38:56,239 --> 01:38:58,600
Seems like sez he was.

2240
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:00,600
Speaker 1: He can't Milwaukee was on brazing the fridges of the

2241
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:02,600
entire NBA he was cover didn't he side for the

2242
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:05,319
biadnual when he went to Milwaukee?

2243
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 3: Well, it was just like, I mean, go back farther

2244
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:09,760
than that. I mean, just you know, the Lakers were

2245
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:10,199
kind of like.

2246
01:39:10,279 --> 01:39:14,680
Speaker 2: Eh, we don't you know, basically yeah, and then he's,

2247
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:16,800
you know, is in the defensive player that you're running

2248
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:19,279
every year after that and shoots threes and is great.

2249
01:39:20,119 --> 01:39:23,199
Those are huge deals. We'll talk about them more, I'm sure.

2250
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:26,119
But like those were not givens either, I don't think,

2251
01:39:26,279 --> 01:39:28,000
especially in the case of Lopez, who seems like.

2252
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,319
Speaker 1: He almost would argue that he was a member of

2253
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:32,319
right right.

2254
01:39:32,439 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 2: So this could have gone way worse. It didn't, So

2255
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:37,439
I don't know how you factor that into a grade,

2256
01:39:38,079 --> 01:39:43,000
but we'll do our best. Jay Crowder, Malik Beasley, Robin Lopez,

2257
01:39:43,079 --> 01:39:46,359
and AJ Green are all aboard via minimums. Joe Engle's gone,

2258
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:49,560
Jevon Carter gone, West, Matthew's gone. I think that's pretty

2259
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,319
much it. I didn't hit on any of the draft

2260
01:39:52,399 --> 01:39:55,960
stuff because Chris Livingston at number fifty eight, who interestingly

2261
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:57,720
they signed to a four year deal. That's kind of fun.

2262
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:01,079
We're seeing more of those for second rounders. Andre Jackson

2263
01:40:01,960 --> 01:40:04,359
comes a board for a twenty thirty second round pick.

2264
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:09,319
He was number thirty six, and shock of all shocks,

2265
01:40:09,319 --> 01:40:12,640
the nasis Onikobo is back. He will he will return

2266
01:40:13,199 --> 01:40:15,119
and not go sign with a team that is trying

2267
01:40:15,159 --> 01:40:16,960
to poach you on us in a couple of years.

2268
01:40:17,039 --> 01:40:18,119
I miss anything there.

2269
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:20,359
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I still can't believe they got

2270
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:23,960
both Jay Crowder and Molie Beasley on one year minimums

2271
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:26,159
that aren't even one plus one, so they're one the

2272
01:40:26,199 --> 01:40:28,880
team's going to be reimbursed for, like the offset the

2273
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:30,880
difference of the salary, because when you add the player option,

2274
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:32,720
you have to pay out the full boat of it,

2275
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:34,680
which is why Matt Ishbia received so much credit for

2276
01:40:34,720 --> 01:40:37,279
what he did at Vedix, so that's like, that's a

2277
01:40:37,319 --> 01:40:40,279
win from the team perspective, and you know, the player

2278
01:40:40,319 --> 01:40:42,039
option only does the player as solid Like it's not

2279
01:40:42,079 --> 01:40:43,359
to be the team but because if they're good, they're

2280
01:40:43,359 --> 01:40:45,760
gonna declude it anyway. Those are two players that could

2281
01:40:45,800 --> 01:40:48,000
really I would argue those are two players that could

2282
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:49,680
techically still be a part of their closing five. I

2283
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:52,920
know people pencil in Grayson Hallid, maybe Pac conditated to

2284
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:56,000
that spot. It probably could more likely to be I

2285
01:40:56,000 --> 01:40:57,920
would say, but League Beasley that a jay Crowder is

2286
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,640
because Jay Crowder the three is a little are at

2287
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,319
the two rather it's a little weird. Yeah, but Week

2288
01:41:03,359 --> 01:41:06,399
basically comes in that is pure three point volume there. Clearly,

2289
01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:08,640
I don't know enough about Cliff Chris Livingston, but they're

2290
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:11,439
clearly very high on him, and I like what they did. Again,

2291
01:41:11,479 --> 01:41:13,960
I wasn't a fan of the botenholes are firing, but

2292
01:41:14,039 --> 01:41:17,319
I liked that they're very clearly on this like two

2293
01:41:17,439 --> 01:41:21,000
to three year timeline where Chris Middleton and Giannis come

2294
01:41:21,039 --> 01:41:23,760
off the books right now at the same time, and

2295
01:41:24,560 --> 01:41:27,119
Brook Lopez comes off the year before. Drew Holliday comes

2296
01:41:27,159 --> 01:41:29,279
off the year before he has that that player option.

2297
01:41:29,359 --> 01:41:33,199
Bobby Portis comes off the same year as Giannis and

2298
01:41:33,239 --> 01:41:36,279
Chris Middleton Diddo for Pat Cottatin and so there now

2299
01:41:36,479 --> 01:41:38,119
it's not, I don't want to say it's fluid, but

2300
01:41:38,279 --> 01:41:41,319
like they're everyone in place is on like this same timeline,

2301
01:41:41,359 --> 01:41:42,960
and so you use the information that you have from

2302
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,199
season by season to figure out what you need to do.

2303
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:47,920
And I think some people will try and focus on

2304
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,239
the absence of what he's eligible that Yannis won't sign

2305
01:41:50,279 --> 01:41:52,439
an extension. It just makes sense for him to wait

2306
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:54,920
so he could tack on more years as we move forward.

2307
01:41:55,199 --> 01:41:58,760
I thought, given what limited tools they had aside from

2308
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:00,800
the coaching change, which I just don't think it's a

2309
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:02,600
guarantee to be a whole run. I think it helps

2310
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:06,279
that Yann has wanted him. This might be the running

2311
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:08,920
for not maybe not the best off season in the NBA,

2312
01:42:09,039 --> 01:42:11,600
but like, was it the most under the radar good

2313
01:42:12,039 --> 01:42:13,159
off season in the NBA.

2314
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,520
Speaker 2: It feels like the biggest exhale, like the biggest relieved

2315
01:42:16,560 --> 01:42:20,359
exhale offseason for sure, because again, like Lopez was, was

2316
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:23,720
kind of gone and then you're suddenly you're just I mean,

2317
01:42:23,800 --> 01:42:26,840
it's a little bit hyperbolic, but like if you believe

2318
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:28,760
the Bucks are a top tier title threat, I think

2319
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:32,199
without Brook Lopez, they're just not so like that that

2320
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:34,359
just oh, thank god, Like, so we got at least

2321
01:42:34,359 --> 01:42:37,359
another year probably too. I mean, Lopez's age is a

2322
01:42:37,399 --> 01:42:39,680
real factor, but like you got another year or two

2323
01:42:40,279 --> 01:42:43,520
where where we're right back up there. I would expect

2324
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:45,840
the Bucks to win more games than anyone in the

2325
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,479
East in the regular season, just like they did last year.

2326
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:51,880
And so I gave a B plus. I don't think

2327
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:54,159
I said that, And the only reason it's not an

2328
01:42:54,199 --> 01:42:57,079
A is because I really don't know about the coaching thing,

2329
01:42:57,199 --> 01:42:59,079
and like we I don't think I factor that in

2330
01:42:59,199 --> 01:43:01,680
as heavily for a lot of other coaching changes. But

2331
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:05,960
what we do know is that Buttonholzer has coached a

2332
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:10,399
team to a title and has presided over really exceptional

2333
01:43:10,479 --> 01:43:13,640
regular seasons and has figured out how to make this

2334
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:16,479
team work during the year so it can secure that

2335
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,039
high seed. And then the playoff record is not just

2336
01:43:20,359 --> 01:43:23,239
that's why he's not back, Like that's that's it. There's

2337
01:43:23,319 --> 01:43:25,760
no guarantee Adrian Griffin is going to be any better

2338
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,159
at that sort of stuff. So that's the only reason

2339
01:43:28,239 --> 01:43:30,319
the stakes are so high, because this is title or

2340
01:43:30,359 --> 01:43:33,119
nothing for this team, and you've got a guy that

2341
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:37,520
that may or may not be an upgrade and that uncertainty,

2342
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:40,279
Like I'm and then it's not a little unfair because

2343
01:43:40,279 --> 01:43:41,720
it's like, well, who should they have brought in that

2344
01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:43,840
would have definitely been an upgrade. I don't know who

2345
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:48,399
that is, but I'm not sure Popovich would have done it. Well,

2346
01:43:48,399 --> 01:43:51,199
I don't know he slipped. Everyone likes to say, but yeah,

2347
01:43:51,239 --> 01:43:53,279
so it's a B plus. You could definitely talk me higher.

2348
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:57,520
Speaker 1: But but that's try to I am a while not

2349
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:00,840
having enough confidence in the coaching change because, as I

2350
01:44:00,920 --> 01:44:03,600
mentioned at the top, going with the guy that Yatiste

2351
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:06,439
to Koupo Wads is valuable and you at least know

2352
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,680
what you have in Buttenholzer, and that was the only

2353
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,319
way for you to meaningfully improve your team was to

2354
01:44:11,399 --> 01:44:13,119
make the coaching change. So the fact that you had

2355
01:44:13,359 --> 01:44:15,439
I don't want to say the courage, but the gall

2356
01:44:15,960 --> 01:44:18,960
to do it. And then also I don't think Middleton's

2357
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:21,039
deal he's making less so it was a given that

2358
01:44:21,159 --> 01:44:23,720
Lopez deal was not a given for them to pay, and.

2359
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:26,039
Speaker 2: They had to come over the top, right, presumably they

2360
01:44:26,119 --> 01:44:28,159
had to just say, well, we were ready to spend X,

2361
01:44:28,239 --> 01:44:30,760
but now hmm, it's gonna have to be why.

2362
01:44:31,520 --> 01:44:34,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of teams wouldn't do that right, and

2363
01:44:34,119 --> 01:44:36,000
I want applaud ownership for it. But like you kept

2364
01:44:36,039 --> 01:44:37,600
this core together, you did. The other thing that I

2365
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,399
think that's really important is aside from the coaching change,

2366
01:44:40,399 --> 01:44:42,760
which again some people would have made it after not

2367
01:44:43,159 --> 01:44:45,359
just this pass offseason, but the one before that. So

2368
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:48,079
it's it was a move that other people would have made,

2369
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,399
and I just we don't know enough about Adrian Griffin

2370
01:44:50,399 --> 01:44:50,840
as a head coach.

2371
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:51,279
Speaker 3: That's the other thing.

2372
01:44:51,279 --> 01:44:52,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend to be a whiz if

2373
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:55,000
it was someone who I firmly believe should have kept

2374
01:44:55,039 --> 01:44:58,520
their job. And Mike Buttenholzer, the timing was awful, by

2375
01:44:58,520 --> 01:45:00,199
the way, the way like it trickled out that his

2376
01:45:00,279 --> 01:45:02,720
brother passed away. I hope the family's doing okay that

2377
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,439
and the optics on that were just absolutely terrible. But

2378
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:08,760
so you pay those contracts, but you also you didn't

2379
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:12,000
overreact to what happened against the heat. Giannis dealt with

2380
01:45:12,079 --> 01:45:15,399
a back injury Middleton was not himself defensively for pretty

2381
01:45:15,439 --> 01:45:18,000
much all of last year. He eventually turned a corner offensively,

2382
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:20,720
and just like the heat caught lightning in a bottle,

2383
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:23,000
with some of their shooting, it's like it just felt

2384
01:45:23,079 --> 01:45:25,439
like a singularity what happened. If Giannis doesn't miss time

2385
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:27,760
in that series, and if he's fully healthy, I'm picking

2386
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:30,079
the Bucks again without any regrets. So the fact that

2387
01:45:30,159 --> 01:45:32,600
you kept this core together where I feel like Zach

2388
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:34,840
Lowis said this, and it feels on the money of

2389
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:38,560
the really good, really great teams. Whenever something goes wrong

2390
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:41,880
in Milwaukee, like something basic like an early playoff exit

2391
01:45:42,039 --> 01:45:44,680
or an injury, it feels like the sky is falling.

2392
01:45:44,920 --> 01:45:47,039
Where doesn't always feel like that for everyone else. And

2393
01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:48,720
so the Bucks could have gone I don't think they

2394
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:51,720
realistically didn't have these other options, but they certainly could

2395
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,359
have looked at and said, well, we need to make

2396
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:55,760
like an impulsive trade or we're certainly not gonna play

2397
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:58,079
Brooke pay Brook Lopez. And the fact that they didn't,

2398
01:45:58,359 --> 01:46:01,520
and the fact that they again crowded league easily two

2399
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:04,600
of the what five to seven best minimum flyers I

2400
01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:06,119
would think in the league, maybe two of the best

2401
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:08,159
head because Phoenix has a shit ton of them. I

2402
01:46:08,239 --> 01:46:11,039
thought they had a great offseason relative to the to

2403
01:46:11,119 --> 01:46:13,760
the strictures which had within which they were working.

2404
01:46:14,279 --> 01:46:16,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would agree, And I think, like,

2405
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:18,279
I'm gonna talk this up like I had the higher

2406
01:46:18,279 --> 01:46:20,880
grade for them, but you actually did, like you talk

2407
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:25,399
about options, and they didn't have alternatives, Like they had

2408
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,800
to get Middleton right, and they had to get Lopez right,

2409
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:32,399
and they had to nail multiple minimum signings, and they

2410
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:35,600
just like because like if Middleton leaves, he just leaves,

2411
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:38,159
and if Lopez leaves, he just leaves, and you're just

2412
01:46:38,359 --> 01:46:41,920
significantly worse in the most meaningful way because you go

2413
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:45,039
from contender to not. So I think because they were

2414
01:46:45,119 --> 01:46:47,279
kind of like walking the tight rope with no net

2415
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:50,199
and managed to make it across, I think that probably

2416
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:53,560
you know that that the degree of difficulty or sort

2417
01:46:53,560 --> 01:46:56,760
of the stakes of failure were, you know, very different

2418
01:46:56,800 --> 01:46:57,960
for the Bucks than they were for a lot of

2419
01:46:58,000 --> 01:46:58,479
other teams.

2420
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:01,119
Speaker 1: It will be interesting to see whether they are open

2421
01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:03,000
to putting their twenty twenty to zero or twenty thirty

2422
01:47:03,039 --> 01:47:04,840
first on the table for this group in the middle,

2423
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:06,840
like if a bogged out about Dotovich becomes available or

2424
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:08,279
so like someone like that makes a lot of sense

2425
01:47:08,359 --> 01:47:09,880
for them, or even a bow yacht if they can

2426
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:12,479
get to the to the salary number. Because that's still

2427
01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:14,199
what's sort of unsettled here is like, Okay, you have

2428
01:47:14,359 --> 01:47:17,960
this timeline, how much are you willing to continue investing

2429
01:47:18,319 --> 01:47:19,560
at it? Right? I think?

2430
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,520
Speaker 3: I mean it's still just you, honest Yannest. Just is

2431
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:23,199
the timeline.

2432
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:25,279
Speaker 2: So I wonder if if you could, if you think

2433
01:47:25,359 --> 01:47:27,760
he's gonna resign for the max and just be around

2434
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:30,079
for five more years after this deal is done, like

2435
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:33,039
you just keep you just keep punting on those draft picks, right,

2436
01:47:33,199 --> 01:47:35,199
like that's the only the only way to do it.

2437
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:38,039
That's gonna do it, though, I think for this division,

2438
01:47:38,079 --> 01:47:39,399
do you have anything else to add? Or should I

2439
01:47:39,399 --> 01:47:39,880
take us out?

2440
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:41,000
Speaker 1: Nope? Take us out?

2441
01:47:41,119 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 3: All right? Everybody? Thank you for listening.

2442
01:47:43,159 --> 01:47:47,119
Speaker 2: Remember to subscribe, rate review wherever you consume your podcast.

2443
01:47:47,159 --> 01:47:50,199
If you're watching us on YouTube, please subscribe there. Please

2444
01:47:50,239 --> 01:47:53,079
leave comments, join our discord, follow us on our socials

2445
01:47:53,159 --> 01:47:56,279
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2446
01:47:56,479 --> 01:47:59,520
on Instagram. Tell your friends, tell your enemies by our merch.

2447
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:02,399
We have links there in the YouTube description and the

2448
01:48:02,439 --> 01:48:06,279
podcast description. Give us five stars wherever you can do

2449
01:48:06,439 --> 01:48:08,800
that and just say good things, think good thoughts. How

2450
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:10,520
about that we never say that. Just think good thoughts

2451
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:12,279
about us and the success of the podcast.

2452
01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:13,079
Speaker 3: That would be cool if you.

2453
01:48:14,119 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 2: And as usual, we close with a shout out to

2454
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,119
one and only Frank Milakina, newly re employed, and an

2455
01:48:19,159 --> 01:48:20,399
apologies to Chairy Downs.