WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:03.240 Golf Smarter number three hundred and eighty six, published on 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:05.280 May twenty eight, twenty thirteen. 3 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:10.599 Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:14.240 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:20.280 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 6 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:25.160 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:25.320 --> 00:00:29.199 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:32.439 A fellow teammate of mine recently who in the PGA appear, 9 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:34.439 and he came out to watch a friend of mine play. 10 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:36.799 We're playing for Simmons, and we handed him a Persimmons 11 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:39.479 driver to hit a shot, and he hit it about 12 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:41.399 two hundred and ten yards. I mean, he just couldn't 13 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:43.920 hit it at all. But with the modern driver that's 14 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.200 ten ounces or eleven ounces and it's forty six inches 15 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.079 long and has a giant titanium head on it, he 16 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:52.240 can just sort of slap at it with his hands 17 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.079 and get one hundred and five miles an hour of 18 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:56.399 club hits. Bee knocked the thing out there two hundred 19 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:57.039 and eighty yards. 20 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:58.159 And you don't like this. 21 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:01.039 No, I don't like this. It's dumbing down. The game. 22 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:03.880 The thing that's been eliminated from the game has been 23 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.280 having to hit long irons, and that's how golf courses 24 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:09.719 are designed. But they're great architects designed these courses and 25 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:11.799 they said, there's ten par fours on a golf course. 26 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.120 So the golf course is designed to have typically three 27 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.200 long par fours meaning two three and four iron for 28 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:19.519 appro chat, and then they're going to have four mid 29 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.239 range five six and seven irons for a pro schot 30 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:25.239 and then three short part fours eight nine oher edge. 31 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:27.959 So the reason that they do that is to test 32 00:01:28.159 --> 00:01:31.159 the skill set of the professional player, the top amateur 33 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:34.400 player on a professional championship course. The player has to 34 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:38.719 show their ability to play long irons, mid irons, and 35 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:40.480 short irons. That's golf. 36 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.959 Today's equipment could be hurting your game with John Lagerts 37 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:50.920 of this is. 38 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:55.760 Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers and golf 39 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.439 professionals to help lower your score. It's worked for your host. 40 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:02.840 Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. 41 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:05.000 John, Thanks for having me out. 42 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.000 I appreciate you coming out to a studio here and 43 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:11.960 staring out at uh at the Marine Country Club and 44 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:14.560 talking about taking a little walk on the fairway there. 45 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:16.199 It's beautiful. It's a beautiful place. 46 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.360 Idiots. You know what I recently discovered. And I've been 47 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:20.879 asking a lot of people and I'm no one's ever 48 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.360 done this, And I'll ask you, have you ever walked 49 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.319 on a golf course barefooted? 50 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.039 Yes? 51 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:27.439 Wow? 52 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.719 That was part of my training at one point actually, 53 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:35.280 how so, Yeah, I was working with I had a 54 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.039 mental teacher that we were working that side of when 55 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:43.080 I was on tour, and he had never played golf before, 56 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:45.039 but he felt that it was important for me to 57 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:51.400 experience getting more grounded while I was playing. And he 58 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.080 was kind of more of a spiritualist in a sense, 59 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:57.240 so interesting, and he would we'd go out t off 60 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.479 at six in the morning. He just walk around with 61 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:02.400 me and play barefoot. And he wanted me to. 62 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.879 Oh he wanted you to play barefoot? 63 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:08.199 Yes, yeah, he wanted me to feel connection to the 64 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:10.000 earth that way as I was walking. 65 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:13.120 And it was that a valuable lesson for you, because 66 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:15.560 I just found it's like just walking out on the 67 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.360 on the on a fairway, it's luxurious. I mean the grass, 68 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:20.120 it's yeah. 69 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:22.639 I meaning to do this when I was a kid. 70 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.840 My dad had nice lawns around the house, so you know, 71 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.400 I would walk around barefoot. So it brought that back 72 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:33.479 to me. And yeah, it's it helped me feel something 73 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.280 maybe that I wasn't really tuning into before. And I 74 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.240 think later on, when I started getting more technical with 75 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:42.080 my swing and that sort of thing, I started to 76 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:47.680 understand ground pressures and ground forces and and Bradley and 77 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.400 I spent a lot of time working on those concepts 78 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:54.639 with the ABS students or Advanced Ball Striking students. 79 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:56.280 And that is your that's your. 80 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.159 Academy, our website, Yeah. 81 00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:59.879 Advanced ball Striking dot com. 82 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.199 Spall Striking dot com. 83 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:06.800 Yeah, And I'm fascinated. So you were working with a 84 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:12.120 mental coach during the process or before you got into 85 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.199 heavy part of your mechanics. I mean, where did you 86 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:15.800 go first with that? 87 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.360 When I came I came out of as a youth. 88 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.120 I was one of the early prodigies of a book 89 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:22.199 called The Golfing Machine. 90 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:25.480 A lot of people are familiar with that, sure show 91 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:26.040 on that. 92 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:31.959 And I did that for all through junior golf, college golf, 93 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.879 and then my first year as a professional playing on 94 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:40.720 the Australian Tour. But I quickly realized that that technique 95 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.040 that I was being taught wasn't going to cut it 96 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.040 at that level the guys that were the great players 97 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:49.040 of that time. This was sort of at the end 98 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:54.480 of the personmon age. I got to play against you know, 99 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.800 Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, you know, these guys in the 100 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:58.959 late eighties when you were still hitting per Simon. 101 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.319 And and they playing in the Australia. 102 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.040 And yeah, playing in the Australian Open, and you know, 103 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.920 the PGA down there, and I was just a young 104 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:10.480 rookie and you know, standing on the driving range and 105 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:14.600 listening to the sound of contact, impact of what these 106 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:18.000 guys were doing compared with the little golf machine swing 107 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:19.639 that I had that was all kind of based on 108 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:24.040 kind of a hand throw centrifugal force, kind of a 109 00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:27.160 swinging what we would call a swinging technique, wasn't I 110 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.519 could tell that wasn't really going to cut it. So 111 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:32.920 I had to make some changes if I wanted to 112 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:37.319 win on, you know, at that level. So I just 113 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.480 went home and I went back to my teacher and said, 114 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.040 I don't think this is going to work. Although I 115 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:45.839 was a pretty good player, I mean I was making 116 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:47.720 cuts and that sort of thing. But I mean I 117 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.920 was a long ways away from being able to win, 118 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.240 you know, to go that low on those courses down 119 00:05:52.279 --> 00:05:57.800 there that were tight long, you know, really tough greens 120 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.920 are super fast. I mean, it was just much more 121 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:03.279 difficult than a lot of the stuff that was going 122 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:03.959 on over here. 123 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.920 So it sounds interesting that you're saying that getting to 124 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:12.120 the tour and winning on the tour are different beasts. 125 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:16.000 Yeah, absolutely, because in college golf, you know, I I 126 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.240 won a couple of times at the you know, collegiate levels, 127 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:23.920 and All American that sort of thing. Okay, Yeah, And 128 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:28.360 we had a really good team and Kevin and Kevin 129 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.279 Sutherland a lot of people might know that name from 130 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:32.279 the PJ twos on the team with me and his 131 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.680 younger brother David who played on the PGA Tour, and 132 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:38.800 Tim loss a lot was another good player, and so 133 00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:43.519 myself and another guy named Doug Harper, and that was 134 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.360 we had five All Americans on our team. We went 135 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:48.000 to the NC to a championship, so you know, you 136 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:49.000 don't see that very often. 137 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:54.160 That's pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the difference of 138 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:57.279 getting on the tour and succeeding. 139 00:06:56.759 --> 00:06:59.279 And winning on yeah, so being able to win at 140 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:00.759 the college level and being able to win at the 141 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:02.879 pro level. I mean it was a big, you know, 142 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.120 big leap. In college, you could shoot maybe three or 143 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.800 four under and win a tournament, you know, and on 144 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:09.959 you know, to of course, let's say like Pasa Tiempo 145 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.639 or something here would be like a world class per 146 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:16.360 simon track. You go down to Australia and now you're 147 00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.399 playing that caliber course like you Alster mckensey layouts and 148 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:22.759 set up for tournament conditions with tight pharaoh's and long 149 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:26.480 ruff or you know, fast, super fast greens, and guys 150 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:31.120 are shooting you know, twelve under or fourteen under on 151 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.240 courses that are you know, just feel like they're impossible 152 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.680 to shoot those kind of scores. I remember playing in 153 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:40.000 the Australian Open at Royal Melbourne and you know, Greg 154 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:42.959 Norman shoots back to back sixty six's and I just thought, 155 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.279 I thought to myself, I mean, there's not even six 156 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.040 birdies out there, you know. If the greens were so 157 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:52.519 fast and it's windy and it was just so hard. 158 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:54.800 I mean I shot up pair of seventy threes or 159 00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:58.959 something and played really well. I mean made the cut by, 160 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:02.480 you know, four or five shots easily. I played really 161 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:04.639 good and I'm and I'm seeing a pair of sixty 162 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:07.160 six is up there, going wow, that's that's another level. 163 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.959 That's something that's and what is it? I mean, how yeah, 164 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.480 well what you know, so that kind of that kind 165 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:15.519 of golf. You know, Peter Senior another great player that 166 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.759 was winning down there, and I mean these guys, it 167 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:21.360 was just a different sound when they struck the ball. 168 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:25.000 But that sound is being created by something, by something 169 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:28.399 in physics, you know, it's something different is happening. And 170 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.039 I had a high speed camera, a ten thousand shutter 171 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.840 frame camera at the time, and which was not everybody 172 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:39.799 had those back then, and I would I would set 173 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:42.559 it up in front of myself and then behind me 174 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:44.720 might be a guy like Peter Senior or somebody, and 175 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.320 then they didn't know that I was kind of filming them, 176 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:49.080 you know, like see like I'd get out of the way, 177 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:52.000 like you know, go change clubs or something. And but 178 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.320 I I put together some nice footage and also got 179 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.519 some great footage of Mo Norman up in Canada when 180 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:00.000 I played up there, and he let me film them. 181 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:03.039 Yeah, well I read that on the website, and you 182 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.519 said that you promised him you'd never show it. 183 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.679 Yeah, and I still have. Like, I mean, I'll show 184 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:10.720 it to people, but I'm I'm not going to post 185 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:13.159 it on YouTube and all that stuff. It's just something special, 186 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.600 you know. But anyway, yeah, getting back to that, So 187 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.720 I started to study what was going on, and I 188 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.559 could see what was happening with the shaftlex and these 189 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.840 guys were holding shaft flex all the way to impact. 190 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.159 And there's a difference between a guy that's timing the 191 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.120 shaft into impact. They are, in other words, they are 192 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.039 trying to time the straightening of the shaft so in 193 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:35.919 other words, it flexes a transition and then it starts 194 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.840 to unflex and you're trying to time it so that 195 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.600 the shaft ends up straight at impact. And that's what 196 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.039 we call swinging technique, and that's what most people do. 197 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:46.879 But they're really great strikers, you know, you're Ben Hogan, 198 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.000 people like that that are holding shaft flex all the 199 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.000 way to impact. And again, you can't get confused by 200 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.399 looking at power Golf and seing that where the pictures 201 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:58.440 in the nineteen forty eight book, or where the shaft 202 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.879 is flexing the wrong direction that we had to do 203 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:03.679 with the camera lenses at that time. There's a distortion 204 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:05.320 of rolling shutter and that sort of thing. It's a 205 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:08.480 that those are not accurate and people are still confused 206 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:12.000 by that to this day. But that actually wasn't happening. 207 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.039 It was actually the shaft was actually flexing the other 208 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.720 direction because of the camera, so it would be flexing back, 209 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.919 not forward. You couldn't hit the ball of the shaft. 210 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:21.639 But history it was so that book's still there are 211 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:23.919 still confuses people to this day, and I still get 212 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.879 questions on that on the site. But anyway, so yeah, 213 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:31.840 I really realized that that was one of the things 214 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.919 that was causing the ball to sound differently because when 215 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.519 the energy is held in the shaft and you've got 216 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:43.120 a pre stressed club shaft coming into impact, that's stored energy. 217 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:46.200 In other words, what happens is the club head it 218 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.120 doesn't decelerate as much from the forces of impact as 219 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.080 it would if the shaft has already lost it. It's 220 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.720 stored energy and it's just straight and now it's just 221 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:58.679 a momentum strike. It's the momentum of the clubhead, of 222 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.600 the weight of the clubhead and that's how most people 223 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.519 play golf, but there's a different way of doing it 224 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:08.200 that these great strikers have figured out, and that's how 225 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.440 to hold shaffles all the way to impact. And that's 226 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:15.639 basically the core direction that the advanced ball striking moves 227 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.159 the students towards. We show the students how to do that, 228 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:21.720 and it's a little bit of work. 229 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:24.840 But once you yeah, it sounds like it's a lot 230 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:25.559 of work. 231 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:29.600 Well, it depends. It depends on the player if it's 232 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:30.600 already a good player. 233 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:31.360 Yeah. 234 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:34.799 Like you know, like Brad Hughes, you know, came to 235 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:37.639 me and we had known each other from playing on 236 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.159 the tour, but he'd come across some of my thoughts 237 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:45.039 on the game on a website that I'd been involved with, 238 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:47.600 and he contacted me and just said, you know, I 239 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:48.919 want to come up and visit you. And so we 240 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:51.080 just he came up here and we spent a week 241 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:54.840 together and it didn't really take long for him to 242 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:58.440 get him back to striking the ball well again because 243 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.960 he had a lot of the the core things there. 244 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.320 We just need to get as muscle strength back up 245 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.120 because the lightweight gear that everybody's playing, it's it's like 246 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.360 swing cancer. It slowly kills your swing over time because 247 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:12.279 you lose the muscle tone. It's just like going to 248 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:16.159 the gym. If you in the preciminage, guys were swinging 249 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:19.799 you know, fourteen, fifteen, even sixteen ounce drivers, and now 250 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:24.200 everybody's got a ten eleven ounce driver. So right away, 251 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.240 oh wow, I hit this really far. It's light and 252 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:27.639 it has a big head, and I don't have to 253 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:29.440 worry about, you know, missing the ball again. Swing as 254 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.360 hard as I want at it, and I get all 255 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.879 this speed. I can hit it a mile. But over time, 256 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.960 your muscles lose a little bit of their tone because 257 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:40.720 you're not swinging a heavier club. So it's just like 258 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:42.360 going to the gym and working out, and then you 259 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:43.960 don't work out for a year, Well you don't. All 260 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:45.360 of a sudden you're not as strong as you were, 261 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.480 so you need to the heavier gear. People don't like 262 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:51.399 it at first, like, oh it's too heavy, it's shafts 263 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.120 are too stiff. But if you practice with it and 264 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:56.759 train with it, it's just like going to the gym. 265 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.399 You get stronger. And if you look at the great 266 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.200 ball strikers, they're all pretty strong, like certainly in the forums, 267 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:09.360 and you see these big forearms, and it's putting forearm rotation, 268 00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.279 adding that into the equation in a big way actively, 269 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:14.639 so you're actively striking it with forearm rotation. I mean, 270 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:17.759 Hogan talked about this and five lessons and briefly, but 271 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:21.399 it's there. But why why do all these great strikers 272 00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:25.840 have big forearms if it wasn't necessary, you know, if 273 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:27.600 it's just a passive throw of the hands and the 274 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.320 impact like you know most people are teaching, then you 275 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:33.919 wouldn't see that. But I don't think it's a coincidence 276 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:38.200 that you see all these you know Snead and Hogan 277 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.559 and Nelson and George Knudsen and you know Moe and Peterson, 278 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.600 you know Norman, like all these guys had you know, guns, 279 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:49.240 Tom Watson, right, I mean you had strong forearms, you know, 280 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.240 Nicholas Palmer, you know where do I stop? Right? 281 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:52.720 Right? 282 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.000 Trevino even right. You don't see too many people with thin, 283 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:02.960 little weak forearms being great ball strikers. 284 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.480 Today. You're seeing guys in phenomenal golf shape or just 285 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.399 phenomenal shape. Yeah, Tiger's led the way on that. It 286 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:15.600 seems like he's a completely different body than the old 287 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:16.840 school players. 288 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.600 Yeah, but then you know you have a guy like Cabrera, right, 289 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:22.519 just one of the Masters. There's a guy, doesn't you know, 290 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.000 It doesn't look like he walked out of the fitness van. Yeah, 291 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:28.960 so there's something else going on there. And to be honestly, 292 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:33.720 that's the first time, you know, in the last well 293 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.879 since I started following golf a little bit again, that's 294 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.919 the first time I've seen a guy really hit it 295 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:44.960 good coming down the stretch hmm, you know, and hitting 296 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:48.480 it straight and hitting it stiff and look like he 297 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.480 really had control over it. I mean, this year's Masters, 298 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.600 that was really impressive of what Cabrera did, I thought, 299 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.120 But he looks like a guy that just walked out 300 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.919 of the sixties. Like, yeah, I feel like I can 301 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:01.080 hand him. I could hand him a set of per 302 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:02.960 Simmon and little blades and he just go and wipe 303 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.879 everybody out. I mean, I think he'd win a lot 304 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:08.279 more if it was if golf was played back in 305 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.000 the old way. 306 00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:13.360 You you come off kind of like a throwback you. 307 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.919 I mean, we were talking about sound recording a little 308 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:20.480 while ago before we started this interview, and you're talking 309 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.519 about tubes and listening to vinyl, and now you're talking 310 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:26.919 about per Simmons and you're not that old of a guy. 311 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:28.960 I mean, you're much longer than I am. But you 312 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.919 seem to have this love of the way it used 313 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:34.200 to be. 314 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:38.679 Well, it's what I have is a love for quality. 315 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:39.840 Okay. 316 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.120 So if quality is better now than I love that. 317 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:45.559 I mean I'm not a throwback. I just like quality. 318 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:47.679 I mean, we talked a little bit about music, but 319 00:15:47.759 --> 00:15:50.519 you know, I think anyone that knows music understands the 320 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.200 vinyl records sound better than digital recording. I mean, you 321 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.320 can go on and on about that. That's a whole 322 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:57.159 other com So is. 323 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:01.360 The quality of golf, And that's a multiple question. Is 324 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.799 quality of golf or is it quality of golf equipment? 325 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.639 Or is it quality of golflers. 326 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:10.200 The quality of ball striking, I would say, okay, And 327 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:14.320 here's how you tell. Like, if you take a modern player, Well, 328 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.480 you can't dig these guys out of the grave and 329 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:18.559 see how they would do with the modern gear. That's 330 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.840 not possible. But you can hand the modern players the 331 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.360 old gear and see how they would do, and I 332 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:27.840 would say that they don't do nearly as well as 333 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:30.720 the players in the past, because it's a different game 334 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:35.279 because it's a different equipment. So if you hand a 335 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:39.600 modern player a set of Persimmon woods and a blot 336 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:43.080 of golf ball that spins at a much higher rate, 337 00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.240 so it's much more difficult, difficult to control. If you're 338 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:52.279 not playing well, it's easier to access tight pin placements 339 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:54.120 and that sort of thing. If you're really good and 340 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:56.120 you can control the spin of the ball, you can 341 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.000 hit it into the green and spin it left or 342 00:16:58.039 --> 00:16:59.759 spin it right, and a lot of this has been 343 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.519 a lot as the shot making being able to curve 344 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.759 the ball where the golf ball holds its curvature all 345 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.160 the way into the green. So basically what's happening now 346 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.200 is the ball goes up, it curves to the apex 347 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.319 and falls straight down, and you don't have the ball 348 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:19.119 curving nearly as much as in the Blotta age. So 349 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.160 I would say that the players now are not as 350 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.079 good because every time I've handed you know, a young 351 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.759 player of per Simons, say try and hit this, they 352 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.720 can't even hit it at all. I mean, a fellow 353 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.079 teammate of mine recently who is a you know in 354 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.880 the PGA up here and he came out to watch 355 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:41.000 a friend of mine play. We're playing Per Simmons, and 356 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.839 we handed him a personmon driver to hit a shot, 357 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.240 and he hit it about two hundred and ten yards. 358 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.079 I mean, he just couldn't hit it at all. But 359 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:54.680 with a modern driver that's ten ounces or eleven ounces 360 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.759 and it's forty six inches long and has a giant 361 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.440 titanium head on it, can just sort of slap at 362 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.200 it with his hands and get one hundred and five 363 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.359 miles an hour a club hit speed, knock the thing 364 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.200 out there two hundred and eighty yards. 365 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.920 And you don't like this. 366 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.319 But with a persimmon, no, I don't like this because 367 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.160 it's dumbing down the game. In other words, if you're 368 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.640 if you're a great ball striker, then you should be 369 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.440 able to do it the old way. You should be 370 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.799 able to do it that way. And now if you 371 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.160 if you take the modern gear and add that into it, 372 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.000 then then that's a whole nother argument. But I want 373 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.440 to see that a guy can still do it the 374 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.319 old way. He's not using it as a crutch or 375 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:36.599 as a handicap. When you watch, you know, some of 376 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.519 the old footage. I mean some of those Shells matches 377 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.559 are great to watch because you can see what those 378 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:46.599 guys were doing back then. And you know, there's a 379 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:48.799 lot of really impressive stuff. I mean, people have seen 380 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:50.880 the Hogan and Sneed match. Of course, that's great stuff. 381 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.400 I mean, you know, but the thing that's been eliminated 382 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.960 from the game has been the long iron play. You know, 383 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:01.759 having to hit long irons, and that's how golf courses 384 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.640 were designed, right, So the great architects designed these courses 385 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.519 and they said, okay, we're going to have we're going 386 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.920 to have there's ten par fours on a golf course, right, 387 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.079 typically par seventy two, you know, so the par fours 388 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:20.200 of the heart of the golf course. So the golf 389 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.240 course is designed to have typically three long par fours 390 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.799 meaning two three and four iron for approach shot, okay, 391 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.960 and then they're going to have four mid range five 392 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:32.440 six and seven irons for approach shot, and then three 393 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:36.440 short par fours eight nine oer wedge. So the reason 394 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.759 that they do that is to test the skill set 395 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.839 of the player, of the professional player, the top amateur 396 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.559 player on a professional championship course, the player has to 397 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:50.920 show their ability to play long irons, mid irons and 398 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:51.720 short irons. 399 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:58.079 That's golf, but today it's driver wedge. Well on the. 400 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:02.000 Tour, yes, of course. You know what's happening now is 401 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.880