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Dogmanencounters dot com Forward Slash podcast. Hey everyone, thanks so
much for joining us for another livestream episode of Dogman
Encounters Radio. For tonight's show, we're continuing the trend of
guests dealing with very unfortunate circumstances, and I think I'm
selling it short by a long shop by saying that's
just an unfortunate in a circumstance that Tonight's guests are
dealing with. Imagine what it would be like to finally
get your dream property, well, to get the property that
you plan to turn into your dream property. You start
working towards that goal and everything looks great. But as
time goes by, as you get closer and closer to
making that dream reality, a problem pops up in the
form of wildlife dog men. Well, that's what happened to
tonight's guest several times over. If you listen to episode
five point thirty five, you heard her come on and
talk about some of the things that had already happened
to her. Of course, I'm talking about Tiffany. Well, since
that episode aired, unfortunately, some more extreme things have happened,
not just to Tiffany but to her daughter, Mattie as well.
Mattie's ten years old. By the way, Well, without any
further ado, let's bring them in here now, Tiffany and Maddie,
Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Hello, can you hear us?
Speaker 2: I sure, key in loud.
Speaker 3: Sorry I lost your there for a minute.
Speaker 2: Oh that's all right. He dropped out of the studio.
I thought, oh no, this is bad. I'm gonna have
to sing to entertain the guests.
Speaker 3: But right now we're back.
Speaker 2: He came back. Youah, thank goodness. Well, I'm sure there
are a lot of people listening to tonight's show Tiffany
who missed episode five point thirty five. So for those people,
please tell them about yourself.
Speaker 3: Like before, I said, I'm I'm definitely a country girl.
I grew up in the country, very small town. Still
live in a very small town, way more rural area
than I ever thought i'd be in. I'm a mom
of six children, all ages from you know twenty he'll
be twenty three to four months old, and Madeleine's my
only girl. Ten years old. So you know, me and
my husband live in our dream on my dream property.
It used to be my uncle's property a long time ago,
and he ended up losing his job, losing the property.
It went up for sale, and my uncle passed away
some time ago, which is really hard on our family.
And I had been renting for a really long time,
and I seen the property come up for sale, just
whipping through like emails I get like realty emails all
the time, and I seen it and I made it
my goal to get that property. It was very hard
because it was way out of my out of my
price range, but I did that. And we've been here
for many, many many years, long time, and this dog
man stuff has been going up. I didn't know that
they were called dog man when I first seen one.
I didn't really know what to think. And I only
knew found out about dogmen because of my husband. He said,
I think you need to start listening to dog Man
and Cap Purse Radio. And I did, and I've you know,
I just I've listened ever since because I can relate
so much, especially with some of these stories, these encounters,
I just I can really relate to a lot of them.
These things have been on our property since I've been here.
I think they've even been on my property when my
uncle bought the property back in nineteen ninety five. Who
knows how long is. There's a neighbor up the road,
an old man. His name is Seth. His wife has
passed away eight years ago, but he's had He said
his wife has had some encounters also, so I know
I'm not the only one her. And basically that's about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, from your conversations with neighbors, it sounds like you
definitely aren't. So you know what they say about misery
loving company. Although you're such a good person, I'm sure
if you could snap your fingers, you'd do anything to
make us so they didn't have to deal with those
dog men.
Speaker 3: So absolutely, I don't want them to have to go
through what we've been going through. And to be honest
with you, like you and I talked vick I when
I went down to talk to that one neighbor that
sunned me away, she I was worried for them, especially
when you can't talk to them about this situation. And
like I said, she came over when she saw, you know,
the property being up for sale and she uh, she
told me, you know, about her husky, that something's been
messing with her husky. Her female husky has been leaving
and nights and not coming back until four or five
back in the morning. And she says she hears lots
of things. She thinks she sees things from afar away.
She's like, but I never she never knew what dogmen
were until I just explained everything to her, you know,
last week when I was talking to you about it,
and because I was worried, I heard her calling her
dog's name all night long, so I knew something was
going on. But her dog has been coming back smelling
absolutely horrible, like death. She said she can't even let
her back in the house anymore. She can't. She's washed
her with tomato juice, all sorts of stuff, took her
to the gat cannot get the smell away. So I
hope that situation plays itself out because I don't see
them leaving anytime soon. They've been here forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that news isn't encouraging at all about the husky,
considering what we're going to talk about tonight experience, of course,
But we'll get into that in a bit, Like we
touched on just a moment ago. You're not the only
one joining us tonight. Mattie's here as well. What can
you tell us about Maddie.
Speaker 3: Oh, she's the sweetest kid ever. She's she's such a big,
big helper around the house. Like I said, she's my
only girl. We have a relationship like like, I never
have to raise my voice to her. I haven't had
to raise my voice to her in years. She's she's
such a great kid. I can say many things about her.
He has a big smell ear to ear right now.
Speaker 2: That's funny. I've only spoken with her that one time
that we spoke about the experiences that we're going to
talk about tonight. But even in that little conversation, I
could tell she's precocious. She's ten, but she's definitely a
very precocious ten.
Speaker 3: She is. And you know what, she's very what's the
word I'm looking for? Vic Like she gets old were
things so fast and tries to find solutions to the
problems instead of just worrying about the problems themselves. I
don't know where she learned that from, but it's not me,
because I seem to dwell on things quite well. So
she helps me just as much as I help her,
especially with this situation.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a great arrangement to me. And if she
is the only sister all the rest of her siblings
or brothers, sounds like she probably does a pretty good
job of keeping them in check.
Speaker 3: She does, She absolutely does.
Speaker 2: I believe it. I don't doubt that at all. When
you're ready, please fill us in on these most recent
experiences that have been happening since you're on the shill
last time, of course, yours Anne Maddie's, of course, in
as chronological of in order as possible. Please be as
descriptive as you can be.
Speaker 3: Okay, I am going to start with so property is
set up like I kind of if you go back
to the episode before explaining it, as we have a
really long driveway and that driveway looks down into a
big pond.
Speaker 2: Interrupt you there, Tiffany, But are you talking with the
microfilm of your phone really close to your mouth now
because you're louder now than you were in the soundtrack?
Speaker 3: Nope? Is this any better?
Speaker 2: Can you hold it a little bit further away, position
the phone a little.
Speaker 3: Further Yeah, I'll keep talking, and you tell me when Okay, thanks.
Is that any better?
Speaker 2: I think it is a little better.
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't want to be screaming in anyone's ears.
Speaker 2: Yeah that is better, thank.
Speaker 3: You, Okay, perfect. As you're looking down the driveway, there's
the pond, and at the top of the little hill
where the driveway ends as the house, and all around
it's you know, once side of the driveway, we got
a little line of trees and then cornfield and then
woods and woods. Behind right behind the house is the
tree line. And then after the pun you know, we've
got the tree line. So we've got woods all around us,
and we have a wrap round porch and we love
to sit out there all the time. That's what me
and my husband our favorite thing is to do at night.
So with these dogma experiences we've been having and me
feeling like I'm being watched all the time, we set
up like a little gazebo on the deck, the wrap
round deck. So I mean, yeah, I could still be
being watched, I'm sure of it, but at least I
can't see anything. We put up cameras along the trail.
We put up cameras at the house. That's something I
never said I would do that. I did. So one night,
we're sitting outside and it's me, Madeline and Tim, my husband,
and he. We both hear something. There's a gate that's
by the garage that when you open it, it makes
a certain sound. We heard that. We both looked at
each other. We couldn't hear anybody coming up the driveway,
so obviously we don't think anybody's there. And we hear
what sounds like like I don't even know what you
call it, like a really like a man who's been
smoking for a really long time. Either say watch out
or watch it. And I know for a fact that
we both heard it because Madeline looked right over at us.
None of us said anything, and then I finally was
like did you hear that? It was like yeah, So
we put the camera because where the gate is the
camera like you'd be able to see anybody coming through there.
You couldn't see anything. There was nothing. There was nothing.
I'm looking I'm looking at over, I'm looking at over,
I'm looking even in the corner of the camp like
where the video is, I see nothing. Where did that
come from? Anyways, that's just the start of what started happening,
Like this ball that started rolling. Well, after last episode,
I had a little bit of confidence and I guess
the property what we had around there, that nothing was
being bothered, everything was going to be fine. These experiences
weren't that bad. Well, my daughter's been asking for a
dog for a very long time, so I thought it
would be trouse. So we went to the pound and
we got a young German shepherd. It was about metaling
eight months old. Yeah, I'm so cute. So dog named
a Ruger. Well, this is the second day that we've
had him. First day we had him, we brought him
home in the evening, so he didn't have much time
to acclimate, I think went outside once to go to
the bathroom, and then we got up in the morning. Well,
we're doing our stuff in the morning and Madeline says, hey,
can I take him outside by the pond and I
said absolutely yes. Well, they go running out and I'm
behind them. But again like I'm explaining my house to you,
Like there is the pond, there's a little hill that
goes up to the house. So they're running down to
the pond and I'm right behind them, and I hear
we're screaming, and I look, there's this dog. Man, I
mean black and black, huge on top. I could don't
even see our dog anymore. It was on top of
All I'm thinking is it's going to go. It's gonna
get Madeline. So I'm running down the hills rest as
I can without trying to trip, and I get between
her and that that dogmen. I'd say there's probably about
not even fifteen feet and I don't know. I was
just madlin. What did you say? What would you say
that it looked like to you?
Speaker 4: It looked pitch dark, like it was a shadow when
it wasn't, and it it was like huge, like very tall.
Speaker 3: I just remember its eyes being it was like an
amber orange color, very bright. I've heard people say, and
I've seen dogmen before, it seems like there's a light
coming from inside. Well, it seemed like the sun was
literally in this dog man's eyes. It doesn't even this
all happened in like a minute or a minute and
a half, but it seemed like it was ten minutes.
And as soon as it killed Ruger, it took off
in the woods. Now, unfortunately Madeline, this is the first
time she's ever seen anything like this. Ever. I don't
know him, said, he thinks that it broke its back
or its neck, but it also ripped its leg off
in front of like it all happened so fast, so
I'm trying to deal with the aftermath. Madeline shaking, she stands.
She's never seen anything like this. This thing was did
it come out like I've talked to her about this before,
like when we've seen it go back into the woods.
It was on two legs. This thing was the same
what I'll explain in a minute. This thing is the
same dog man that I've been seeing. It's got no tail.
There's no tail on this dog man. It's got no
backward it's legs but huge feet, like huge. I you
know what I'm going to compare it to what I
think it looks like. Is it looks like the biggest
rabbit foot I've ever seen. And they're really long arms
and really long claws. And Madeline has been saying that
it looks like like Batman. Like the ears look like
Batman from the Arkham Asylum. They're very tall, very sticking,
like sticking up with like furr on the end. Like
I wouldn't say it tough to heer. It just looks
like a straight like its ears just go straight up
very to like a tip to a point. So I'm
I'm dealing with the aftermath of that with Madaline and
us having to explain to her what just happened. And
I called Vic the very next day, and I wanted
him to help me with this because I didn't know
how to handle it myself. She had she had so
many questions and I didn't know how to answer them
for her. She wanted to know what what this was.
Is it human? Is it not? Is it going to
hurt me? And I was trying to explain to her,
like I think from from what I'm gathering, and I
can't say, because I'm not this dog man, I don't
know what what it's thinking. But while she was running
down the hill, the dog, her dog, was coming after her, barking,
not aggressively, but it could have been perceived as being aggressive.
And I think this Dogmin's been there for a while,
and I think, in my opinion, either it was like
wanting to claim it's territory and didn't want that dog there,
or it thought it was coming after Madeline. So that's
all that's all I can think of why that incident
would have happened Because Madelin's been outside playing forever out there,
and nothing has ever happened to her. So we went
to my mom's house for a couple of days and
then we came back, and then we ended up burying
the dog. And Madelin did find by where we buried
the dog that there was like a bunch of pine
cones and they were all set up in a row.
And nobody comes on our property, so I don't think
anybody would have done that. Like Vick and I were
talking like, these dog men don't have compassion like that.
They're not going to be like, oh, yep, sorry I
did that. That's not ever going to happen. So I
don't know what that was all about, but it wasn't
a little while after that, we have a lot of
wild berries on our property, like most farmlands do out
in the woods. We've got raspberries, we've got blackberries, we
have all that kind of stuff out there. So I
was picking them. This was like a week later. A
week and a half later. I'm out there picking berries
and I'm on the trail and I'm going I'm going
off the trail a little bit, and I don't know
if anybody who's ever been berry picking before. But for
those who have, you kind of get into it a
little bit and you're like, oh, my gosh, there's a
bush with more there's oh, look at those. Those are great.
So I'm going a little further than I should because
I'm not in sight of the cameras anymore, the trail cans,
because each one that we had was looking at the
other one just to be sure, like if we caught anything,
I wanted it. I wanted it on there. And before
I knew it, I this is still a little bit
hard to talk about. I feel my face getting red
and hot. I heard like this snapping noise, like something
walking on twigs or on branches or something. It didn't
sound heavy, it didn't sound loud, but it was enough
to make me like, you know, stop what I was
doing and turn my head. And as soon as I
looked up and looked over to I looked to my
left first, and then I looked to my right, and
right to the front of me to my right was
the ugliest thing I've ever seen since two thousand and two.
This dog man was. It didn't have any hardy hair
at her face. It had pigment where hair should have been,
but it wasn't. Like I'm trying to explain, like like
if you have a skin color and then you have
black patches where it looked like hair should have been
that wasn't. And the way that it was hunched over,
it was still on all four legs. The way that
it was punched over. This thing was long. Like I'm talking,
I don't know. I guess I really haven't seen too
many dog man to compare it to. But this thing
was long and it was tall on all fours. And
I heard this noise coming from behind me, and I'm
too focused on this dog man in front of me,
and I'm thinking the look on its face. Its eyes
were like the greenish yellow that I've seen a long
time ago, with like the red circle in the middle,
and I'm staring at it, and I'm thinking in my head,
should I look down? Should I look away? Before I
could even think about moving or pulling my phone out
or screaming or crying or doing anything, that black dog
man jump. I don't know if he jumped off of
the tree, if he jumped behind me. It looked like
he flew out of the air at this thing. And
they start sounding like grizzly bears fighting. I don't know
if somebody wants to google what a wolf fight sounds like.
This is nothing like that. You'd have to search up
just to get an idea like a grizzly bear fight,
because it sounded so horrible. These things are scratching at
each other and they start I don't even know if
they're biting at this point, because I turn my head
and I start walking backwards as fast as I can.
And I had not only knowsed this, We've talked about it,
I had urinated on myself. I've never had fear like
that before. And I've been in a lot of scary
situations in my life doing some of the stuff that
I'm doing when I was younger, and I've never been
even even when kids have been in the hospital sick,
not being able to breathe, stuff like that. This was
scarier than any of that, because I've never been in
a situation where I've been that close to something. Before
I was behind four walls, or I was somewhere where
I could get to a door right away. This wasn't
anything like that at all. I was so vulnerable, and
that just goes to show you how naive. I've been
about this whole situation.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: And I get back home. I called him and I said,
I should I call nine one one, And he goes, no,
it's diffan. He's like, what are they gonna do? You
know they're gonna come out here. They might not even
be here, and you know they might write you up
for a crazy looney ben or something. Well, I don't
believe that that's true. Maybe that's true, but it wasn't.
I don't tell me my neighbors didn't hear the either
far away but not too far away. Don't tell me
that they didn't hear what was going on. I don't
care if they were in their house. This was loud,
and it wasn't a little while after that, we keep
having this game warden, driving up and down the road,
up and down the road, up and down the road.
We don't get cops up here. We don't get unless
they're called to a house or something. We don't get
any of that. And they're driving up and down the road.
And it wasn't a little while after that that our
SD cards came up missing out of our trail cams.
There's nothing I can do about that. I can't prove
somebody was on their property. I didn't see anything, so
I went around. I told Vic, I said, I've been
talking to my neighbor and the old man neighbor, and
he said, you know, my wife used to gift them,
gift the dog men, you know, food and stuff like that.
And I told her. At first I thought she was nuts,
that she had lost her mind. Now this he was eighty,
he's been in war before, he's seen things, you know,
and and here he is thinking that his wife is
going senile. And he's like it wasn't until I was
out in the garage. He's like, you, I don't know
if it was. He's like, this thing didn't look like
what she was describing to me. What he was describing.
What this old man Seth his name is was describing
to me was I sponded to me like a like
a sasquatch, not a dog man. And you know, we've
been growing up there, given him dinner and talking to
him about these situations and stuff. And when I saw
the game morning and a sea cards go missing, and
that the incident that happened out in the woods, I'm
thinking in my head, like did he call somebody because
he got worried about us girls, or you know, it
could have done anything. So I have nothing but time
when all the kids go to sleep, too simply obsessed
about this. I hardly get any sleep because I'm scared.
I'm nervous. And anyone has had an encounter like that,
it replays in your head all the time you're going
to see it. I was taking a shower one night
and I this is going to sound crazy, but like
I have a shower curtain that looks like woods, you
know what I mean. It's like really nice. I've got
a matching a matching curtain that looks like woods, with
like fog in the background and all that I'm taking
a shower and I swear, I'm like it's replaying like
in the background in the shower curtain, and I'm just like,
oh my gosh, I can't. I need to keep my
mind busy. I cannot be obsessing about this. And I
called Vic to talk to him about all of this,
and me and my family have made the decision to leave,
to move. This isn't a place that's safe to be anymore.
I can't. I can't be held up in my house.
I can't worry about my kids safety. I can't worry
about my safety. What good is so much property if
we can't use it. It would have been nice maybe
if I could, we could have just coexisted with this
black dog man, But that's not the case at all.
Like I don't know what else is out there now.
And so we've been saying at my mom's which I
said I would never do it, But it's been great.
She's been really supportive about all this, and Madeline's been
having a great time. But Madeline now is having a
hard time with the decision of moving away and but
she but I think it's easier on her mind right
now that were going to be finding another place. But again,
this is where she grew up, so this is just
as hard on her as it is me. So we've
had lots of talks about it. He's been silent a
lot lately, which has been worrying me about this situation.
So I thought tonight, you know, her and I had
a long talk about coming on the show, and I
think that it would help her to get this out
now instead of later, instead of trying to deal with
this later. So Tim had to go back to the house.
We all had to go back to the house and
reps and stuff. So we were doing that and I
left with the babies around four pm, and Madeline and
Tim were still there. They were supposed to be out
of there within the next couple hours, but they decided
to stay a little bit longer in play oculous mediquest,
and they didn't get back out to the garage. They
were supposed to be taking some of the stuff out
of the garage and bringing it to my mom's house,
like his workout stuff, so we can do stuff like that.
And this is not my encounter. This is their encounter.
So so Madaline, if you could help me with this
bow isn't there. But this is what he's called me.
So he says, he hears Medaline whimpering. Now our garage
from the inside, it has a double garage door, like
a double garage, and then on the side of it
is a door with a window. And he said he
hears Medaline whimpering, like starting to like cry or like whimper,
And he looks over and she's looking at the door
where the window is, and you can see she says,
she described that brown dog man that eye seen to
a tee and she said, it's just standing there. Tim said,
And Tim also seen it, and he told me. He said,
it's standing there, like it's hiding, like it's up against
the side of the garage, like straight up. He's like,
I can't see its face yet. It's like it's just
standing there waiting for us to come around the corner.
He's like, so, I pick up the garage door opener
and I shut that garage door. He goes, we both
got in the truck. I locked it. He goes, I'm
watching that window. He goes, and it's not moving. They
were held up in there for hours right now one
and he said he wasn't sure what to do. He
left his phone inside on the kitchen counter. He can't
call me our truck's the truck that he had is
a little bit older. He can't call me from the truck.
So there, I can't even imagine what you know. This
is the first time that he has had a face
and face encounter with something like this close. So he's like, Tiffany,
I know that you told me. He's like about this
and this. He's like, and I believe all of it.
He's like, I've seen certain things, like my neighbor said
from afar. He's like that I'd never seen it up
close like this, he said. They both medlan, was it
like a growl that you heard it? Was it like
a howl? What was it?
Speaker 4: It sounded like a bear groaning, but super okay.
Speaker 3: She described it for like Jurassic part. She said it
was so loud, and then this thing took off and
then they left. Tim said he's never driven. She said
that Tim's never driven that fast down on the driveway before.
So he got home and now he can't stop talking
about it to me. And I think that just goes
to show, like not that we didn't have this in
common before, but now it's a lot easier to talk
to him about it. And I mean, it's had to
have done the same one. But like I said, I
didn't see this one on all I've seen the one
on all fours. He's seen it standing up. He's like,
that didn't move. He's like, didn't move anything until he's
like the last ten minutes before we left, he's like
and it started like starting to peer around. He's like,
they these things aren't stupid. Yeah, they had to have
he had to have known that we got in the
truck and were waiting, you know, but he just stood there.
He's like, so I'm thinking, you know, we're never going
to get out of here. He's like, And I don't
know if it was that thing that growled, howled or
whatever it was, or if it was something else and
that thing took off. But that's another thing that Madelin's
had to deal with again. So I think that just reiterated, Hey,
let's we gotta go, you know, stop wasting time around here.
It doesn't matter obviously if we're going in the day
and in the night now, because it wasn't completely night
when this happened to them, you know. So this is
what I was talking to Vic about, is how do
I sell this house to somebody else? How do I
tell them about this? How do I explain like I
can't be like if I get a realtor, I can't
be in charge of Can I say like, no children
can live here? Like I don't know what to do
about that situation. But that's I hope to God that
this is the end of any encounter I will we
will ever have in my life. That's what I've got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not an easy decision at all. You've just
been made to bear so many things that no one
should have to deal with. I mean, life is more
than difficult enough when you just deal with the normal
problems we all face on a day to day basis,
but dumped on top of all that or you dog
me in issues, that's just way too much and making
matters worse. I feel so bad for Maddie ten years
old having to deal with all this. That's horrible. That's
absolutely horrible. So yeah, rest assured. I've spent a lot
of time thinking about you and your situation. I mean,
I just I wish there was a magic bullet for this,
but I think you have fired the only magic bullet
there is, just moving and hopefully, like we've talked about,
they don't follow you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I told you VI. I was so thankful that
Tim had gotten his guns out of the house before then,
because all as I kept you know, I'm thinking about
this a lot, and as I keep thinking in my
head is oh my gosh, like if you would have
had a gun in the garage with him, that situation
could have ended up so much worse, Like it could
have turned into something horrible, And I don't like I'm
to the point where I don't want Like, my baby
cries a lot right now. If I'm not holding him.
You've got separation anxiety horribly. And I have all my
windows shut it, Like, I don't want any an animal
to hear my baby crying. I shouldn't have to worry
about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: No, you shouldn't, No, not at all. I'm just so
frustrated with the fact that you couldn't continue improving your
dream property in and really making it into what you
want it to be. Unfortunately, because of these guys, you've
got to pull up steaks and relocate. But I mean,
you're still young. That's not to say you can't redo it.
You can't do it all over again in a different place,
but you shouldn't have to, as you well know.
Speaker 3: Right right. And I just I feel horrible that Madeline
had to go through this, you know. I feel like
a lot of the blame falls on me. And there's
one thing I forgot to mention Vic. I didn't know
if I should be saying this or not. It's something
that you and I talked about. I just didn't want
ridicule to come from this. But I trust the people
that I've talked to on chap from dog Man, and
I feel supported enough to share this. I guess I
just don't want people being like, oh, Tiffany, like what
were you thinking? Because I got enough of it from
my husband. You know, this is caused a lot of
problems with him and I because of my naiveness when
it comes to these things. Now, when that black man
black dog Man, I thought protected me against that other one,
because I can't think of any other reason why it
would have attacked that one unless I was in the
way of something else, unless it was already going to happen.
I don't know. There was a really bad storm in
our area around that night, and I, in my head
mine spoke like went outside and was like, oh, you know,
if you need somewheres to go, you can stay in
the garage or whatever, like not thinking, not thinking, being stupid,
like living this like I have. It's not very often
that you think that you have a connection with one
of these creatures, and when you do, you're like you
you're curious, You're very curious. And I felt compassion like
for what you know, had happened, like I thought, I
like helped me. And I was telling Tim about what
happened because he went out in the garage. The next morning,
he said, Tiffany is like, it smells horrible in the garage.
We still can't get that smell out of the garage.
So I had been inviting something in that I shouldn't have,
and I've been starting something that I shouldn't have, almost
like gifting gifting an APEX predator that has intelligence. That
started a very big argument between my husband and I,
and I do now, after talking to Vic and stuff,
realize like the mistake I made, you know, because that
could have brought in other mistakes and other consequences that
came with it. So, like you said, I think the
best thing to do right now is just get out
and leave all this behind us and try to move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely think that's the best bet. I should
know the answer to this question, but I don't. Unfortunately,
was it an easy decision for you and Tim to
come to the decision to finally move Tiffany or was
it a difficult one? When all is considered, it was hard.
Speaker 3: It was really hard for him. Not so much. I
think he was ready to go. I think that he was.
He's always like he's always said, I'll support you in
this I'll support you. I'll support your decision. And finally
he said, you know, I don't know if I can
leave this decision up to any more Tiffany. He's like,
this isn't safe here. And it was really hard. We
had a lot of long nights talking about this. And
in the end, now, right now, the decision is easy.
It's it's easy, and it seems like a burden has
them lifted off my shoulders.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm so glad you made that decision. Like I
told you several times in that one conversation, I know,
it's not an easy decision to make, but I do
not like the way I'm hearing things shape up around
that property at all. I just don't like it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And Yeah, one of the biggest reasons why I let
out a big sigh when you told me about telepathically
at least green lighting that black dog man coming into
the garage is I mean, dog men are just like
any other big, large predator in certain ways. It's not
a good thing to have them around on a regular basis.
It's not a good thing to have them around anymore
than necessary, because I mean, you could do the slightest
little thing that's going to push that dog man over
the edge and take a situation where everything's gonna be
okay and benign, and next thing you know, it's not.
So Yeah, why do.
Speaker 3: I honestly didn't think that that would happen. I didn't
think that it would go in there, you know what
I mean. I didn't think that at all. In the
fact that it did, and it hurt me, Like, that's scary, Well,
it is scary.
Speaker 2: But like I told you when I recommended that you
go to the four corners of your property like other
eyewitnesses have done and kind of say your piece, they
can understand you. As hard as it is to believe,
these guys can understand what you say. So yeah, you've
got to be mindful with what you put out there.
People who know a lot about sasquatch Robn Haines McCrae.
She has pounded that into the dirt, the fact that
you really need to be careful what you say around
these guys. So yeah, Unfortunately, that's a lesson you learn
the hard way. Thank goodness, you didn't get hurt, Thank
goodness none of your family got hurt.
Speaker 3: Correct, yep, But the thing is.
Speaker 2: What's behind you making that bad decision. Tiffany a good heart.
You did that because you've got a huge heart, and
you know, I mean, if you have a big heart,
you are going to make mistakes like that in life.
But I'd much rather have a big heart like you
have and take what comes along with that some bumps
in the road that not to have one. So, yeah,
it's unfortunate you made that mistake, but you're human and
you made it because of an underlying great quality you have,
So let's just see it for what it is.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh you're welcome. You are welcome. Are you doing okay
over there, Maddie?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Good, that's really good when you had that experience when
unfortunately the Black Dog Man and I saw some comments
in the live stream the live chat where people are saying, okay,
so the Black Dog Man's a good one. Well, the
Black Dog Man unfortunately did kill Ruger Maddie's poppy. So
in my opinion, that's definitely not the definition of being good.
Maybe an anti hero, I guess he could say in
a way if it actually was actively trying to protect Tiffany.
But like Tiffany laid out, we don't know for sure
what was behind that fight. We just don't know. But
going to school after having experience like that, Maddy, how
did you handle it? Was it really hard?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really hard to focus in class.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it was. Like I said before, you never
should have to deal with anything like this. You should
be able to just focus on things that a normal
ten year old would have to focus on. But unfortunately
there hasn't been the case here. But the good news
is everything is going to be okay. I mean it
sounds to me like your mom and Tim your dad
have got things under control, and I mean, everything is
going to be okay. You just have to believe in
trust in that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. You are welcome. Tiffany. Talking about the fight
that you witnessed, did you see any open wounds or
any blood flying?
Speaker 3: No? I left before any of that. I saw they
were the black dog. Then he when he leaped on
top of the other one, the other one didn't. I
don't know if it was going to stand up or
if it wasn't, but it didn't have a chance to.
I mean he was on top of him, kind of
like what he did to Ruger, and I just saw
his Uh, that arm is long this thing had really
a really long arm, and the longest part of it
was not the part that's connected to the what looked
like a raccoon of hand, like a to its wrist.
The long part was the part by its shoulder and
by its elbow. And I didn't I just saw him
come around and just get like grab his face, and
I turn. I turn, and then I turned back because
I'm not turning my back and in walking away and
running away from these things, I was walking backwards as
fast as I could, and I think, to be honest
with you, after that adrenaline and I turned the corner
like it's turning. It's hard to explain where how the
trail goes. But I only saw them for i'd say
thirty seconds. I didn't see any blood flying, but the
sounds just kept getting worse and worse, and at some
point it sounded like either a bone crack or like
a crack of a whole entire tree. So I wanted
to get out of there as soon as possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't blame you, but I am glad you
didn't rush out of there. If you would have run,
then it's hard to say that might have triggered something
we didn't want to get triggered. It's hard to say
about that, it really is. But you poor thing, having
to experience something like that. How close did you say
that word to you when this fight broke out?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, so i'd say about that brown dogman,
I don't like I said, he appeared at that When
I heard that the crack of the like the tree
branch or whatever was on the ground that made that noise.
It was ten about ten feet away from me when
I seen it. When I looked over to my right,
I couldn't believe. It just came out of nowhere. He
came out of nowhere. And to see something like that,
I'm telling you right now, it seems not real. It
seems like not a reality. And my body did something
that it's never done before. I'm glad I didn't completely freeze,
because I don't know if anybody's ever been so scared
that when they try to walk, they they're tripping like
they're in slow motion. I couldn't go fast enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure you couldn't. It was like a nightmare
where your feet are frozen and sand. It's probably felt
like poor thing, Like I said, no one should have
to experience anything like that. Now, just to kind of
clear the air here, when Tiffany's talking about the black
dog man and the brown dog man, understand that the
black one, from the way she's described it to me,
it's got Hominid's style legs. That means it's a type three.
It's a type three dog man. Some people call them
fase phase eaters, some people call them googway other things
as well, But yeah, definitely sounds like it's a type three.
The other one, the brown dog man, that's definitely a
canine type dog man. Now, as far as size would go,
the brown one was down on all fours. The black
one you did see stand up. The type three you
saw a stand up.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 2: How what are your opinions on and again one ever
stood up, So there's no concrete way to know, But
do you have an opinion on which one was bigger?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the black one was definitely bigger. And so I
had Tim glout there with me, and so the trail
cams about i'd say, forty feet away from where all
of that happened, and we measured the tree that I
thought I was buying. And you can tell something happened
out there. I mean there's stuff messed up everywhere. So
I measured where I pretty much thought he was standing.
It's about nine feet tall, give or take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty tall. Most people don't have an appreciation
for how tall nine feet is, but yeah they don't.
If you're standing close to something that's nine feet tall,
that is up there. It really is.
Speaker 3: Anybody anybody that's got normal like what's a normal ceiling,
like like eight feet something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, normal.
Speaker 3: If you're sitting on your pouch or if you're sitting
in a chair, look up at your ceiling. That'll tell you, like,
you know, like it's scary. It's it's horrifying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is horrifying. Doesn't do it any justice. Yeah,
a nine foot tall one, its shoulders are going to
be probably right at about the eight foot mark or
close to it. So yeah, it sounds like the Type
three was actually bigger than the brown one, the canine type,
And sounds like.
Speaker 3: That black one didn't have a barrel chest, he didn't
have a dog chest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's a Type three, so it's not it's
going to look more like a sasquatch, So that all fits.
It does when all this was going on, did you
notice any disparity in size between the claws and the
black one versus the brown one the canine type.
Speaker 3: No, I couldn't tell.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, because of the difference in sizes that would fit.
I'm wondering, though, since you've had so many occurrences at
night out there around the property, I'm going to try
and ask this without tipping my hand. It's one of
the vetting questions. I'm not vetting you. I know you're
the real deal, but what I'm beating around the bush
ad here trying not to reveal too much, is one
of the vetting questions I use for people who claim
to have seen the dog man that actually turned out
to be a Type three. Right, So let's see the
best way to ask this when when you've been at
the property at nighttime looking out the windows and have
seen any eye shine?
Speaker 3: Have we well.
Speaker 2: I know you have looking out the windows, you've seen
eye shine, but have you ever noticed any unusual quality,
any unusual Careful?
Speaker 3: Now, so I'm going to explain something to you. One
night we're out on the deck. This has happened multiple times,
but the first time I ever seen it I'm going
to tell you something right now. I thought it was
like little orange orbs bouncing in the woods, and it wasn't.
It was eyes, but it looked like it. Because it's
so I think the dogmen is so black you can't
see I couldn't see it. It literally just like looked
like little orange balls bouncing.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I believe that. But if the eyes would
have even been still, is there a quality about those
eyes that you notice that that made you think, Wow,
that's a strange quality. H And just so you know
for clarity, the reason why I'm asking that is as
far as type threes go, not canine type dogmen, but
as far as type threes go, Googway face eaters. Talking
about type threes, there's a way that you can tell
if you're looking at eyeshine from a type three in
the dark, you can definitely tell, if you know what
you're looking for, that it's a Type three and it's
not a sasquatch, it's not a canon type dog man.
There is a defining quality to their eyeshine, and that's
what I'm asking about.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever noticed anything like that. Vick.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, don't feel bad about that. They'd have to
be yeah, close to within a certain range for you
to notice this quality. But yeah, that is a good
way of picking out someone who definitely saw one. If
someone talks to me and they're talking about the experience
and happened to see a Type three and then just
that of the blue, they mentioned this quality about the eyes,
I think, Okay, well, yeah, they definitely saw a Type three.
They're the real deal. Now. Like I said, again, I
definitely believe you have the experiences that you've been telling
us about. Maddy has as well Tim as. But yes,
I just wanted to ask you that because I wasn't
sure if you ever noticed this particular feature of their
eye shine, sure if you ever had an experience where
they were close enough for you to notice it. So yeah,
that's what's behind that particular question. But moving on, how's
Tim dealing with all this? Because for the longest time,
obviously he hadn't had an experience, but recently he did.
So how's he holding up?
Speaker 3: Uh, he's I think he's still in shock, to be
honest with you, like he at one point he was like,
you aren't trying to mess with me at the house, right, like,
and I was like, no, like, I would never do that,
you know what I mean, I would never. But then
then again that's that comes the denial, you know what
I mean. Yeah, No, he's still in shock, and I
think that he's under the impression of I just want
to protect my family right now, and I'm not going
to go out there, you know, stay in my ground
and you know, fight these things. I see now what
they would, what they look like, but they will A.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the things about being a father.
You have to be careful. Don't let that pride and
this this urge to protect your family causes you to
put yourself in the situations that you shouldn't be putting
yourself into. That really put yourself out there and open
yourself up for potentially disaster to happen.
Speaker 3: I'm glad he said that. He said that he was
ready to he goes at that point right there, when
we were inside there and I couldn't get out, he
was like, if I had my phone on me, He's like,
I would have called my marine buddies and had them,
you know, come over and start, you know, just going
through the entire woods, just ripping it apart and I'm
just glad that none of that happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes two of us, because yeah, that's not
the answer to that situation at all. It's all too
easy to overestimate your ability to hold your own around
these guys. I mean, I hear a time time people
think that just because they have a ten milimeter pistol
on their hip, or maybe above and beyond that, they're
curing of forty five seventy or something even more putting
than that. They think, Okay, well, I'm good. These guys
are so talented in the woods at getting around without
being heard. If they want to sneak up on you
and dispatch you, I don't care what you're carrying, You're
never going to see the attack that comes. If they
really want to get you, you're not going to have
a chance. So I'm glad that you realize that, and
you're going to do the best you can to make
sure that Tim doesn't fall into that trap. Although he
sounds pretty darn smart, so hopefully he wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Oh you're welcome. You are welcome. You've got game cams
that you hung all over that property. But something strange
has been happening to them. Or happened past tense to them.
Please expand on that for us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know if it has anything to
do with that game morning that's been coming up and
down the hill for weeks. Uh. All of the SD
cards were missing after and it was after that dog fight.
All of the SD cards are missing from our trail cams.
And I trust my husband one hundred thousand percent. I
don't think it was him, you know, trying to hide
anything from from us or or whatever. And I don't
think it was my neighbors coming from the property taking
all of my SD cards. They probably don't even know
I have trail cams up. So in my opinion, I
think that somebody heard something go on, somebody saw something
go on. Maybe they didn't just fight on my property,
you know, maybe they're running around somebody else's house at
night down here. Just because I didn't call doesn't mean
somebody else. And and I don't have a ton of
lights on my property out in the woods, So I
how I don't know who would be taking the SD cards.
I guess I just don't have an explanation for it.
And Tim, what he has to say about it is
if somebody's coming out here taking RSD cards after what
just happened. He's like, I don't think it's a good
idea that we're out here, you know, because who's to
know what's going to happen next.
Speaker 2: That's true, that is true. But you don't think you
have anything to worry about as far as the government
coming after you. I mean, yead anything that they would
find you crossing the line for. But yeah, this is,
like I said, just such a bad situation. Like I
said before several times, I feel so bad the fact
that you've had to deal with all this. This is horrible,
It really is.
Speaker 3: I mean, Vic, I'm I never thought about this, but
I don't think they're that smart to take as D
cards out a trick. Him's right, No, dogmen aren't, right exactly. Yeah,
so that never even crossed my mind.
Speaker 2: No, they might smash the camera, but normally they don't
even do that all that often. From time to time,
they have, but they don't seem to make a habit
out of doing that. You might have a particular dog
man that tends to have a habit of smashing cameras,
but most of them don't. So yeah, I'm pretty sure
it was you know who doing that. Yeah, yeah, I'm
pretty sure that's the case. Well, let's get to some
questions here before we do, though, I just want to
thank Todd Bettina. Also I want to thank Peter Parsons
as well for your donations. I really appreciate it. Thanks
again so much for some awarding the show. The first question,
having said that, is from Untrimmed Savage, and they want
to know, Tiffany, did any legs that were like I
think they mean, did they have any legs that were
like people's legs straight, not like a dog's. We've already
addressed that, Yeah, one did. The black dog man was
a type three. It had hominid style legs, like a
human or a sasquatch. The brown one was a canine
type dog man. It had legs like a dog or
a horse. It stood to digitigrade. Well, if it would
have stood up on his back legs, it would have
stood digitigrade, just like a dog or a horse. Moving
on to the next question, This one is also from
Untrimmed Savage. They want to know, and this question, are
any graves or burial grounds closed that you know of?
Speaker 3: Not real close? I know down at the very end
of this. We have a cemetery and there is an
Indian princess, a huge statue that's very there. I'd say
it's like ten miles down the road. But other than
around are my property, I have no idea. We've got
pretty much nothing there besides a questrian farm. But yeah,
I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you have so much country around you were
there might be bureau grounds you don't know about that
no one knows about. It's hard to say, it really is.
The next question, this is a good one from bon
josso where I'm sorry bon Jasso. He wants to know
would you say that his or her eyes were animal like,
human like or more demonic. I'm not sure which dog
mean he's asking about, probably either one that you've gotten
a good look at their eyes.
Speaker 3: I got more good look at the one that we've
been talking about, Dick, And the only thing I can
try to explain to you is its pupil is so tiny,
like really small, and around it just looks like a burst,
like like an amber burst that looks like sun. It
looks like fire. I would say it looked more human
to me than an animal liked because they had a
brow like man and I were talking about this, and
it's got a really deep brow ridge, like like you're
looking at a an like a man that's really upset
or mad or something like that. It has that face
all the time, so its eyes look very very human
when they when when they do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their eyes are awfully intimidating. There's no discounting that
at all, as you've seen. The next one up is
from the young homesteaders, and they want to know, have
you ever experienced the incidents from the dog man's point
of view like a mind speaker or a projection? And
I've heard of dog men protecting children see Sasha from
the last episode. Well, Sasha never did protect any kids,
so maybe you're thinking about a different dog man.
Speaker 3: I've Are you still there, Vick, I sure, am okay,
just making check. I I mean, I did go around
the four corners of my property and I spoke my
piece and I said, hey, I don't know whose territory
this is. I don't know who was here first. I
can't claim something that I don't know. You know what's
right and what's wrong. I go, but it seems like
we're neighbors, I said, And if you don't harm my
family or you know, torture us. Basically, if you don't
come intimidating anybody, I will show as much piece as
I possibly can. And I just literally I think I
went around I told you for about forty five minutes
doing that. So I mean, I think that may have helped.
I'm not sure, and I have looked at it from
their point of view, because look at what I did.
I'm like, here have the garage. There's supposed to be
a really bad storm, and I'm feeling bad because I
feel like this thing is meet me for some reason,
trying to protect my family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that might be what's going on. I doubt it,
but I mean I.
Speaker 3: Keep peaking the same thing like that can't be possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be. It might be what's behind it,
but like I said, I really doubt that. Now, if
that is the case, why is it doing what it's
doing or why did it do what it did? Will
never know think for these things anymore that you can
think for people, but rest assured there is a reason
behind everything they do. There's a reason. Count on that.
This next one up is from baby Girl and she
wants to know are you afraid they'll follow you when
you move.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because right now, Oh I didn't notice
this until I pulled something up for Vic earlier. I'm
like a thirty one minute drive right now at my
mother's house some property. Is that like a hot skip
and jump away for them? Yes, you know, I mean,
I don't see them wanting to leave the area. It's
so nice up there. There's so much land, there's so
many animals here, this, that and the other thing. I
don't see why they'd want to follow me, But then again,
why do dogman do what they do at So yeah,
I'm nervous.
Speaker 2: Understand please. So, yeah, that's about thirty miles. That is
a hop skipping to jump for these guys. They definitely
will travel that much one day, I'm sure of that.
But that doesn't mean they are going to follow you
and pop up again. But you're obviously intelligent, you know
that that possibility exists. So yeah, you're gonna naturally take
precautions so that if they do follow you, then it's
not going to just blindside to you and catch you
totally by surprise. But we'll keep our fingers crossed, and
of course we're going to hope that never happens. They
never do show up.
Speaker 3: I'm praying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that makes two of us, and console has
the next one on deck. She wants to know how
long again, have they been around. I'm wondering because maybe
they'll be moving on soon.
Speaker 3: Ever since I seen the first one. That was back
in two thousand and two, so basically since then.
Speaker 2: A long time. Unfortunately. This next question is from Bravo
Johnny and Bravo Johnny wants to know did Tiffany grow
up in the countryside?
Speaker 3: I did very much countryside.
Speaker 2: Well, it's such a shame. This is tainted the country
for you. The country is a great place to live
and be. I mean, this is one of the weird
things about me, but I love the smell of cowpoop.
That stuff smells like biscuits and gravy to me. But yeah,
I mean, unfortunately, now that you have these experiences with
these guys, it's never going to be the same for you.
And I hate that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not, it's absolutely not. You know what they'll
I kind of I hate that Madeline has had to
have this experience, but I'm also okay with it in
a way because now she knows what's out there, you
know what I mean, I don't. She doesn't have to
have the surprise later on in life, say something wants
to come around, you know what I mean. She knows now,
Like like you said thick before, Unfortunately monsters don't exist.
Speaker 2: Yes they do. Both of you know that now, all
three of you know that. Now. I wish she never
would have had that shown to you too. Baby girl
has an next one up. She wants to know. Have
you considered therapy for Maddie and yourself?
Speaker 3: Madeline goes through therapy. She was to counselor, and if
she wants to talk with that, talk about the situation
to your counselor. She's more than welcome to. But her
and I have talked about you know, other people don't.
That's never listened to your show or heard other people's
experiences and have a closed mind. Sometimes that situation doesn't
end well. And especially if it's written down on paper
that her counselor thinks she's nuts, you know that she's
having hallucinations. That's something I don't ever want for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the dangers of approaching a counselor
or seeking out therapy about dogging and encounters. You really
run that risk. I mean, in almost every case, they're
going to think that you're crazy. And that's not the
kind of thing you want a counselor to have or
a therapist to think about you, because nothing good is
going to come from that at all. It really isn't.
I've got a comment that Jen cope'smade, and I'm sorry,
Jen Cops. She's just basically saying, shout out to Maddie.
You're one tough cookie. Be strong and brave. You're stronger
than you know. Do you have any BFF friends you
can share this with.
Speaker 3: You? I think you'll feel Yeah, haven't you talked to
some of your friends about the dog man? Said that
one of your friends said she think she saw one before? Yeah, yeah,
she's Her friends have been really supportive about this. They
haven't said she's been making stuff up or anything like that.
And her teacher is really sweet. What's your teacher's name is?
Name John? And she said that she has had a
conversation with her teacher, and I guess her teacher went
at home at night and was looking up you know,
dog man and stuff like that. And she came back
to Madeline the next day and she goes, I mean
I just want you to be careful, you know, so
not not all people are close minded. So it's good
that Metaline her good support system when it comes to this.
Speaker 2: Oh definitely, you can't have too much support, that's for sure.
Audacia Seeber wants to know. I'm just trying to understand
the body movements when they do fight, you to eat,
because I'm sure there's a lot of assumption for the
those of us who haven't seen it in action. So
she's kind of wondering what their movements were like when
they were fighting.
Speaker 3: The one that's crouched down like a cat would be
like shoulders up, like up off the back. Like I said,
this thing was really long and its legs must have
been very It was odd looking. The black legs must
have been extremely tall, taller than I thought, because it
was bumped up. I don't know if it was bumped
up because it was ready to pounce on me or
pounce on the black man that was behind me. That
I didn't see the fighting I could compare to Like,
I've never really watched any were wolf movies or anything
like that are vampire movies, but I've watched a lot
of action movies before and it's it seems like something
I was literally if I was just take a step
back watching on TV. The one dog man, the black
dog man literally took its huge arm and just looked
like it was going to crush the other one's head.
And when it grabbed a hold of it, it's when
I turned around. And when I turned back around, it
looked like it had its claws inside of it. I
don't think it did. I'm not sure if it did
or not. I didn't see any blood or anything like that,
but if the vicious fight, it sounded like I said,
you look up a wolf fight and listen to it,
and then look up a like a grizzly bear fight.
It sounded worse than that. It was horrible. I mean,
these things are are going at each other like not
just a fight, like I'm going to kill you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that must have been awfully horrible to hear. I
can only imagine. Holy cow, car guys up with the
next one. He wants to know where the dog men both.
Speaker 3: Males, I think, so, like I there was there was
hair down there, so it's not something like the the
brown one. I would have no idea. I'm pretty sure
it was a male it's very unattractive. Both of them
are extremely unattractive. And Mattel, did you get a good
look at the black dog man in more ways than
I didn't?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like you guys were talking about earlier, it's I
was sort of splanted.
Speaker 3: The black one. Yeah, okay, I guess I didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I yeah. I don't ever want to witness
anything like that ever again in my life, and I
don't want her to either. But I definitely think that
they were both males.
Speaker 2: No, I'm sure they were. Yeah, that's textbook behavior of
male dog man. Highly doubt that either one of them
were females, I really do, right. This next one up
is from ed Rush two nine in pH Well, that's
pretty fast. They want to know. Ed wants to know
with the black dog Maion have come to Tim's aid
if he sent a telepathic thought of distress that the
brown dogman was lurking on the property.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he would. Ever if he was into that,
like he thought I was nuts when I did it,
but he knew what it really happened, you know, So
maybe he was in his mind was sitting in the
truck and I don't praying or or anything, even talking
out loud, and maybe that's what they heard. I keep
wondering that too, because Tim said he goes, I couldn't
see most of its face. I could see its ear
in half of its snout. He's like, when I heard
that noise, I didn't see its mouthel I didn't and
it was He's like Jurassic Park growl, like huge, he's like,
and nothing took off like lightning. He's like, And I
thought that was Mike cue to open up the garage
door and get out as fast as I could.
Speaker 2: When you're desperate like that in a very compromising situation,
it's surprising what you'll do. So yeah, I mean I
wouldn't be surprised if he would have done something like
that to try and save his skin and understand place.
So definitely. The next one up is from Sonia Vasalo
and Sonya wants to know did the eye shine and
the dark blink?
Speaker 3: Did the eye shine in the dark and blink? I
remember it reflecting, and it looked like it was changing colors.
To be honest with you, but I don't remember seeing
anything blinking.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're so shocked by seeing the eye shine
period that you're doing good to know your name.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, that's very true. Oh there's one more thing
I wanted to mention about that brown dog man. Now
it had gray marks on it, and it had gray
marks on it, like weird looking half stripes, like if
somebody like took so, like if he was to stand,
I'm thinking, oh, well, these things are bred to camouflage,
because if he was standing next to one of our
birch trees that we have out back, you would never
know that he was there if he didn't move. These
things are they're made to look like other things. It
had these weird gray stripes on it, and like I said,
then you have any hair on its face. So it
could have been standing next to me, like next to
a tree or something like that, and I didn't even
notice it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can definitely conceal themselves like it's going out
of style when they want to. Although you know what
people are with most people, you don't have to be
all that camouflaged. If you just stand still in the woods,
most people aren't going to notice you. So the fact
that it's so well camoed, that's just going to make
it that much more difficult to notice. If it's not
moving right. That's how it is. Andras Curisalez's next question,
he wants to know when you mind spoke your accidental invite,
did you get emotions that feel not your own later?
Speaker 3: That's funny that you mentioned that I just had a baby.
I've been very emotionally anyways. But I remember that night.
I remember I kept looking out the window and I
have my own bathroom time every night around i'd say
nine o'clock. And when I sat down in the bathroom,
I've got like a little bench there and I sat down,
I was poured over with emotions. But you have to
remember what happened that day, so you know, here I
am thinking I've been saved by by this dog man maybe,
and I have I have so many emotions. I remember
just sitting there crying and crying and crying, and I
think it was a huge adrenaline dump, like a dump.
And I don't know those emotions were mine, But I
didn't feel anything. You know what I did feel though,
after even seeing that fight Dick and that happened, and
being as scared as I was, I felt safe in
my house. I felt safe after I did speak that
like I felt it like I felt safe not to
say that wasn't my own crazy mind, you know, feeling
that way because of what I thought, you know, aspired.
But yeah, that's my answer that.
Speaker 2: Well, when you experience such strange things like you've been
made to beer, it's hard to say how it's going
to affect you. Maybe the dog man is you having
those emotions. It's hard to say, but all we can
do is guess. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3: Yep, yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: How it is. Karlata Lee Ray wants to know. Have
you tried prayer for protection?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yep, I have a lot of it. Madelin too, Malan,
she's been praying a lot also, she does that every night.
Speaker 2: Well that's great. That's definitely a good thing. Jim Copps
wants to know, or it's her comment, shout out to Maddie,
you're one tough cookie, be strong, And I guess I
read that already, so I got ahead of myself when
I posted that before I should have. But that's awfully
nice for her to say this.
Speaker 3: Minch Mallelan got a big smile on her face. Again.
Speaker 2: Well, that's great. Well's got tons of fans, so many
more fans than she's ever gonna know. That's a fact, yep.
Speaker 3: I told her. I said, like you and I talked
about VIC, I said, you may not get a lot
of support anywhere else and feel comfortable talking about this,
I go, but this is somewhere, you know, where you
can feel comfortable talking about this situation. And that's what's
amazing about having the channel VIC.
Speaker 2: Well, like I told Maddie before we started rolling, Yeah,
she's definitely amongst friends here. I'm so glad that she
decided to participate because who knows how much this is
going to help her when she sees all the support
rolling in from the listeners around the world. That's great,
absolutely for both of you. Yeah, definitely. The next one
up is from Audacious Amber. It's a question she already asked,
but also there's one that she didn't. She is wondering.
I think I've asked twice about its movements and if
more details can be given about when they fight indeed,
is it just arms and biting or what do they do?
Speaker 3: So, if you've ever seen a dog man fight, anybody
that has or have a confrontation with two dog men
that are going after each other, it happens. They're fast,
They're very fast. It's like they know one another's moved
before they even do it against Some'm confused about the
question biting or is it just their arms biting or
what did they do?
Speaker 2: I think she's wondering if they just clawed each other
with their arms and bite or do they kick with
their back legs also and rape.
Speaker 3: I didn't see any kicking with any back legs. I
know that the one dog man was on top of
the other one. He took his right arm and he
literally grabbed it looked like he stuck his huge nails.
They were huge nails into like the inside of its head.
It may not have it may have just looked like that,
but he bit right down on the top of his
side of his head where his ear was git right
down And like I said, I'm when I'm turning the
corner away from that tree, I can't see them anymore,
but I can hear them. And it literally sounded like
a bone crack or a tree snap in half. So
I mean, that's that's all I've seen happen.
Speaker 2: Wow, I really wonder what that was. Letting go hard
to say. We're never gonna know. Bob Jason wants to know,
do you think they were just that one know who
you and your daughter are.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, absolutely, I think the one does for sure,
and I mean if the other one's around. I don't
know how they communicate, but obviously they do, and I'm
sure they absolutely know who me and Madeline are. I
think they know who my whole family is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I'd bet good money on that.
Sonia Vasala wants to know. Is your property near any
bodies of water or train tracks?
Speaker 3: Yeah? We have a main river not very far from
us that goes right through Pennsylvania. It goes through Has
anybody ever heard of the Susquehanna River. Yeah, that's very
close to me. There are ponds everywhere, little lakes on
my hill so, and there is train tracks right at
the bottom of our hill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dog man level that water being around count on
that Sasquatch too. It looks like Pike and Bee wants
to know. Have you tried telepathically asking the dog men
to leave?
Speaker 3: Nope, No, I haven't because, to be honest with you,
I don't think that. I don't know if that would
hurt my situation or seeing that as a sign of disrespect.
Maybe they were here before me. I don't want to.
I don't. I know it sounds weird, but at the time,
I didn't want things to get worse for me. I
didn't want to offend something. If they can hear what
I'm saying, which obviously he must be able to, well.
Speaker 2: I can definitely understand your apprehension. I mean, when you're
dealing with things like this, you definitely don't want to
upset them. So that's understandable. It really is untrimmed. Savage
wants to know. Yes, it's so strange with the eyes
looking like animal and human at the same time, with
the illumination. Did you see I'm sorry, with illumination. Did
you feel a telepathic connection?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't feel a telepathic connection. But Madelyn, this
is the first time I'm hearing of this, Like she said,
the black dog Man, I don't know if that's the
eyes that I'm saying outside, like the eyeshine that I'm
saying outside is like like orangish, like like reddish. But
she said that it looked like the eyes were slanted.
The black dog Man's eyes were slanted, Yeah, like a
lizard o cat? Not really okay, I got I'm kind
of confused. About that, but now I didn't feel a
telepathic connection.
Speaker 2: Well that answers that. I've got a question for Maddie
I want to ask, and that question is, when you
were laying in bed at night at the house, has
there ever been a time where you've heard tapping on
your windows or any scratching?
Speaker 4: There actually was one time when I was when I
was sitting in bed, I was like trying to go
to sleep, and then I hear this like it was
sort of like I sort of like scratching on my window,
but money at the same time, like he was trying
to get my attention.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, did you were you ever tempted to pull back
the drapes and look or was that a no.
Speaker 3: No, no good.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you didn't. Yeah, please never do that.
Speaker 3: I tell her no. I always tell her, I said,
you stay away from those windows that night. No, nobody
has a sleep walking in my house.
Speaker 2: Thank gosh, what a great mom. You're on it. This
next one up is from Christina Easter Day. Christina wants
to know how about talking to the one lady that
her little girl grow up. I guess she grew up
around them. I can't remember the lady's name Tiffany may remember.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, in our first conversation, first private conversation, that's something
that Tiffany and I talked about. I talked about that
lady and the episodes that she had been on, been
featured on and everything, and yeah, I think it'd be
a great idea for these two to talk. I'll see
if I can't arrange that. I can't remember when we
had that first conversation. Did you tell me, Tiffany that
you definitely wanted to have a conversation with her?
Speaker 3: Yes, I said it was one of the episodes that
stuck in my mind the most because it reminded me
so much of Minor Madaline situation. Yeah, you helped me
find who that was. I forgot because I listened to
it so long ago.
Speaker 2: Oh that's all right. Your name's Robin, and I can
definitely reach out to her to put you together. She's
really nice and I'm sure she would jump with the
opportunity because, like you said, she has a daughter who
is just about Maddie's age when all this craziness started
to happen.
Speaker 3: That would be great because my neighbors, like I said,
Seth is great, the old man. But I was telling Vic.
The first time I went down to my neighbor down
the hill and knocked on her door to maybe have
a conversation about what was going on in the in
the countryside neighborhood I hope here. She literally looked at
me and said that she wasn't that she basically didn't
want to talk about it, and shut the door in
my face, which it was a little surprising to me.
But it just goes to show that these things must
cause havoc, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. Like I told you before we started
rolling tonight, I'd be astonished if all of your neighbors
in every direction haven't had experiences with these guys. I
just most of them haven't told.
Speaker 3: You, right, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it is. Jen Copps wants to know.
I'm so thankful you have good friends and teachers. Obviously
addressing Maddie. This definitely helps, Maddie. There's so much in
this world we don't understand yet. I admire you and
your strength. Well, definitely, yeah, Maddie, just like your mom
is awfully impressive. Oh, you're welcome, And yeah, I'm sure
Jin heard that as well. She's just telling it like
it is. Both of you are so impressive. The next
one up is from Scott Baker, and Scott wants to
know any graveyards around in reports of vandalism like holes
digging from newspaper.
Speaker 3: Articles, not that I know of. No, we haven't had
any new houses being built in the area. We haven't
had anything being dug up or going on. Well, that's
not really true. We have had people. It's an electric company,
isn't it that one. I think it's a fiber optic
network company trying to get up here, and they've been
digging along the sides of the road making all sorts
of racket and stuff.
Speaker 2: But other that now, well, that answers that. It does
make you wonder if them digging for whatever reason, if
that did disturb something that shouldn't have been disturbed. We're
never going to know. All we can do is guess, obviously,
but it does make you wonder. Bon Jasso wants to know.
I know you mentioned about the difference between them. Do
you think the brown one could stand up on two legs? Well, yeah, definitely,
all dog me can stand up on their back legs.
Whether it's a ken and I type, whatever variant of
a key and I type you're dealing with or a
type three. All of them can stand up and walk
by pedal lee, so that's a given there. And then
the next question is from Daniel Williams. Dan wants to
know you and Maddie are incredible humans. You're tough, Maddie
deserves all the best, as you both do. You were
right to leave. Are you glad that you did?
Speaker 3: That's really nice of you? Daniel? Yeah? Absolutely, Like I
said at first, no, but I know. Are you happy
to get out of it? Get out of there?
Speaker 4: It's happy, but not happy.
Speaker 3: I did that? Why because I just grew up there.
I understand, Honey. It's hard. It's hard, but we're both
glad that hopefully we never have to deal with this again.
We're looking at moving into a town close by to us.
It's got lots of houses, big yards, the kids can
still play, but we're not really near out like acres
and acres and acres of property like we are right now.
Or we maybe might have to deal with this again.
Speaker 2: Because with that saying, I hope you never do have
to deal with them again. Got my fingers crossed for you.
Sonya Vasalo wants to know is your property on a
lay line. What's that a lay line? Well, these are
lines where a lot of pre normal phenomena are found
close to you. That's not what a lay line is,
but that's why she's asking. There are latitudinal lines that
go across the globe, and for some reason, piranormal phenomena
tend to happen pretty close to lay lines on a
regular basis. That's what she's getting at.
Speaker 3: That's interesting. I'll have to look into that and see
if my property is near, you know, on or near
something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just might be. It's hard to say. Andras Carrizalez
is the next one up. He wants to know have
you listened to that episode that also has dog men,
has a dog men fight, but a bigfoot family helped.
He's asking about episode two seventy six.
Speaker 3: I don't think I've gotten that far yet, but now
I want to listen to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was pretty intense. It was. I still remember that.
It's almost like a host of that episode. This next
one is from Wait a minute, I did. This next
one up is from baby Girl and she wants to
know if you have any caves or mines around the area.
Speaker 3: We have a lot of what looks like weird dens.
I call them that one. She finds them all the
time we have. You go further down on our property
to the right, there is i'm gonna call them weird
clicker bush cooking things. I'm not sure what they are.
You know, those thistle looking wood that would looking stuff
with the floors that are coming out, and they're all
twisted and they're twisted around each other, and in the
middle of it is like looks like a big open space.
They look like little dens everywhere, but I know other
animals also do that, but these are big. And yeah,
we do have some some dug up dens in our area,
but it's hard to tell what that could come, what
that could be from.
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's not lost in you. They just might
be using those dens. It's hard to say. Linda four
Okay wants to know or I guess it's a comment.
Her comment is some have had success with blessing their
boundaries to keep them out.
Speaker 3: Well, I think i've When I went out there and
I talked to my property and I talked to what
I thought was a dog man or anything else that
may be out there. I said, I thought that was
blessing it. But I didn't bring like a I guess
like a church person out to like bless the land
or anything like that. But if the new owner wants
to do something like that, I will help them with
this is situation like that. But I guess my main
concern right now with the property is finding somebody else
to make it a home that is going to be
okay with that kind of stuff being around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is really, uh a difficult situation there. How
do you handle trying to explain what's going on to
a potential buyer the property? That is not an easy situation.
I feel for you, I really do.
Speaker 3: You know what I be. I think I'm just going
to be upfront and if they think I'm crazy, that's fine.
I'll probably never seen them again. But if they if
they're kind of like, you know, oh yeah, maybe I've
ever heard a document before, like you know what, We'll
still take the property, like, I'm sure it's a beautiful
property and there's never any houses for sale up here ever,
so I'm sure we'll go fast and somebody might want
to try to past what I'm telling them that I
will try to nail home the significance of how serious
it is. But I think that you know, whoever else
has is going to end up with the property. I
hope they have better luck than I did.
Speaker 2: Well, you know it is honesty is always the best policy.
So I'm glad you're going to handle it that way. Well, oh,
you're welcome. Well, I've got a couple of questions left,
but before we get to those, I want to start
posting some pictures you submitted. I've got the first one posted.
Please tell us what we're looking at.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're where the obviously the red, little red
marker is there. That's where the property is, and all
around that's farmland. I just wanted to pull up a
more not zoomed in view so the viewers can see
how far away from everything that we are.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, that's pretty remote right there. How about
this second picture?
Speaker 3: Yea second picture is a picture of I wanted to
show the picture of the back of the property you
if anybody wants to. I don't know if you consuming
on your video, but that little tiny dot right there
next to that cornfield that's been corned off of equipment's
called already that's not my property. My property is right
after that where my driveway is that house right there,
that's my property, and behind all that behind it is
my property.
Speaker 2: So you're talking about the house, it's directly below that cornfield.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's me.
Speaker 2: Okay, I see that makes sense. How about this third photo.
Speaker 3: That's my house. So that driveway that I'm telling you,
I know you can't tell from an aerial the aerial
view that as you're you know, driving down the driveway,
you're up a little bit, so that pond is down lower.
It's not a slope, it's not a tiny littlehill. And
as you go up the hill a little bit more,
that's the house. And as you guys can tell if
you're looking at the house, the tree line is up
against my house. So usually when we see stuff it's
right down by the pond. By that tree line. Down
by the pond.
Speaker 2: You don't have that much room between that house and trees.
Like you said, yeah, that's good in a way and
bad in another way. Makes it off easy for them
to spy on you, right, Yeah, definitely. How about this
next photo. What are we looking at.
Speaker 3: Here, Madeline? You want to explain? So I drew a
photo of the brown dog and that's her interpretation of
what what the brown dog man looked like.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good sketch. She's a lot more talented
than I am. I can't do that.
Speaker 3: She's not wrong though. That was with the rounded ears,
like I said, Tim and her explained to me exactly
the same one I saw. And its face. Of course,
the dog man's not Warrence, but it's face like I said,
had those pigment markers on them. And she got the
teeth right. The teeth had teeth behind the teeth.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure there were. So you didn't notice any
tufts on the tips of its ears, Maddie, No, I
don't think so, like a Lynx. Okay, well, if it
had those tufts, you'd notice it. So yeah, not have
had them. How about this next sketch?
Speaker 3: So this is the black dog man that I drew
and it's my Yeah, she's pretty accurate on that. That
black dog man has broken teeth, by the way, you
can definitely tell when it when it opens its mouth.
It's got some broken teeth in the front. What's very
pointed ears like like Madeline described before, it looks like
if you look up Batman Arkham Asylum, like its ears
are tall.
Speaker 2: Are those curls on its forehead? Does that represent long?
Did it have unusually long fur on its head?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I see, I thought that's what that was. Well, you
did a great job with those sketches, like I said,
a lot better than I could do. Thank you, You're welcome.
I'm impressed. Well, let's get to these last questions here.
The next one is from Audacious Amber and she is
I guess it's more of a comment. They've been coming
down to Maryland from Pa' right beneath where she's talking,
and we're all up in the woods on the Marylan side.
I think there's a reason I'm not going now. Well
I could understand that, but I'm sure you spent a
lot of time in the woods up until now, Amber,
and I think you'll still be just fine if you
ever do head back in the next one is from
bon Jasso when he wants to know or it's a comment.
Remember you did say earlier that you thought they were
it could follow you in your family, So I guess
it is a question.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, like I said, I didn't realize. I mean,
this is this is all happening so fast. I didn't
expect to be moving all my stuff out of my house,
moving my whole family from a place where I thought
we were going to spend the rest of our lives.
So so yeah, I ten, So yeah, I'm nervous that
they might follow us. It's a thirty one minute drive
to my mom's house from the property. You know, the
places that we're looking at aren't that far away. Like
I said, I hope that they wouldn't, but I'm not
close minded to that possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I said before, no one should even have
to worry about things like this, but unfortunately, I mean,
you've been dealt this hand. You've got to deal with it, unfortunately.
But you're doing the right thing, like I said, by moving,
trying to remove yourself from this predicament. And like you said,
it wasn't an easy decision to make in the first place,
so you deserve a lot of credit for that. This
next question for you is from Brian Linker, and Brian
wants to know, Hello, Tiff, what county.
Speaker 3: Are you in.
Speaker 2: Of course I wouldn't recommend answering that, but that's his question.
And then he also wants to know I'm in Northumberland
County right along the river and have many family and
friends in PA. So it's more of a comment than
a question there, or at least it's a question that
you shouldn't answer. Y, I'm not nearer there.
Speaker 3: Anyways.
Speaker 2: Here's a good question for you. It's from baby Girl
and she wants to know do you have any caves
or mines around the area.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen any besides those dens.
Speaker 2: She's asking that because she knows the dog man seem
to love caves, So.
Speaker 3: Right, good question. I haven't. Like, there's where we live,
Like I have my property, but you want to be
careful where I live going out on anybody else's property
without talking to them first, because we have some really
backwards people here, and it's not somewhere is where I
can just be like, hey Ellen pay Tien, you want
to go for you know, a walk across the street
in the field or whatever. We can't do that, So
I'm not sure. There might be some more stuff. It's
a huge hill, it's huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It sounds like you have a lot of things
around you that just make your eree a perfect habitat
for these guys. Unfortunately that's the case. Yeah, that is Well,
we're an hour and forty five minutes into this so
I'm going to get ready to call it. But before
I do, Maddie, is there anything you want to put
out there for us, anything you want to tell us?
Speaker 3: Not really, The only thing I want to tell you
that I'm tired.
Speaker 2: Well, that makes two of us. That makes two of us.
It's not just you. You've done a great job tonight.
Like I said, this isn't easy. I'm proud of you
for coming on and talking about these experiences you never
should have had to experience in the first place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she hoped she never has to. She tells me
that almost every night when I put her to bed,
we have like our own ritual and she's always like,
you know, asking questions about the dog man, and we
make up our own little things what we think, you know,
like make up a name for it, like she's been
calling them Fred, you know. So we try to make
light of it the best way we can, with being
serious at the same time and realizing, how, you know,
dangerous it is.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a good compensation technique. That's a great idea
to do that, it really is. Well, Tiffany, how about you.
Do you have any closing comments you like to put
out there for us? I do.
Speaker 3: I just want to let whoever is going through through
some of these encounters, to let them know, because every
time I'm listening to the show, it means a lot
to me when I hear your listeners say, like, you know,
I'm here for you, even though I don't know who
you are, like, I'm here for you. And every time
you know, I hear an encounter that goes bad, I
have I pray, I pray on that I pray for
that person. And I'm just so thankful for you, Vic,
because your show isn't just about you know, views and
oh my gosh, it's so scary and making up stories
like it makes me upset and insulting to hear when
I hear, you know, people looking up stories about this
kind of stuff. I understand creepy pasta all that stuff,
people love it. But this stuff, these things are real.
This stuff is real, and it sometimes it destroys people's
look at me. I have to pick up and move
my entire family from my dream home that I worked
so hard for. So I'm just thankful for you, Vic,
that you have this outlet for people like me and
my daughter to go to we ever need somebody, if
we're having to go through this situation again, or if
Madaline's having a hard time about it. There's how many
people can say that they can, you know, call their
person that they're having a show with. I don't know.
It just means a lot to me, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you're welcome. I wouldn't have it any
of the way. Like I've said before, the show is
one heck of a tool when it comes to helping
eyewitnesses come to terms with their encounters. I mean, for
the longest time, most eyewitnesses they live in a prison
with no walls. They can't talk with their significant others
about their experiences, and a lot of cases, their family
and friends are a no no. I mean a family
get togethers in a lot of cases are made fun of.
They're the punchline. So when they come on a show
like this and they see all the support from the
listeners and everything, that's huge. It makes all the difference.
Like I've told the listeners time after time, they're never
going to know the difference they make, and for that
I can't thank them enough. I really can't. But please remember,
whether we're talking about you, Maddie or Tim from now on.
If you ever need help, please continue reaching out to
me to let me know I'll be there for you.
I'm not going to go anywhere.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, they don't take this personally, but I hope that
I never have to conversation again.
Speaker 2: Well that makes two of us.
Speaker 3: I'm always always going to support this channel and be
a good listener.
Speaker 2: Well thanks for doing that, but yeah, that makes two
of us. I hope you never do have to contact
me for this type of a problem. But yeah, I
guess the future will tell that's just a matter of time.
Thanks again both of you so much for coming on
and sharing the details of these experiences with this And yeah,
I hope you have a good night. I know it's
not going to be easy after all the negative things
that you've been talking about, but somehow, some way, hope
you have a great night and a great weekend.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you everybody, Thanks you too, and everybody.
Speaker 2: Oh you're welcome. Thanks again so much, and take care.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: Like I said just now, everyone listening, I can't thank
you enough for supporting these eyewitnesses the way you do
it really does make more difference than you're ever going
to realize. And also to if you've had a dog
mean encounter that you'd like to speak with me privately
about that you need help with, or maybe you just
want to come on the show and share your experience
or experiences with the listeners. All you'd need to do
is to go to dogmyandcounters dot com submit a report,
and if you do that, then I'll contact you so
we can schedule a phone console take and we'll take
it from there. But having said that, thanks again so
much for listening and have a great night.