WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:10.679 Joining us now is Dan Doyle. He is someone who 2 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:14.960 has decades of experience in the oil industry, has started 3 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:18.879 a couple of companies himself, and he has written some 4 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:21.640 op ed pieces about what may be happening in Venezuela, 5 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:24.280 what may not be happening in Venezuela. But I thought 6 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:26.800 it'd be very interesting to get a perspective from that. 7 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:30.120 And of course he knows some petroleum engineers in Venezuela 8 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.719 as well. He wrote a joint op ed piece with 9 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.719 a petroleum engineer from Venezuela about what is needed down there. 10 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:41.159 But I think it's also interesting to take a look 11 00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.719 step back and take a look at the oil industry itself. 12 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:46.520 And I think that he's got a very interesting personal 13 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:47.479 story as well. 14 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:50.679 He wrote a book of roughnecks. 15 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:55.560 And help me hear, Dan, of roughnecks and riches. Yeah, 16 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.200 that's the other part we want to make sure we get. 17 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.479 It's the riches that are there. 18 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.200 Yeah. 19 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.400 So that's his book of roughnecks and riches. And his 20 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.280 name is Dan Doyle. 21 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:08.920 Thank you for joining us, Dan, Thanks David, sure appreciate it. 22 00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.400 Tell me a little bit about how somebody who has 23 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.640 I looked saw a little bit about your biography, your 24 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:18.400 film school graduate. How did you get into the oil industry? 25 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:19.560 That sounds like a story. 26 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.079 Well, I started in the oil industry then, I uh, 27 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:29.519 you know, I uh started with the study geology undergraduate 28 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.239 and do a Pittsburgh University of Pittsburgh, and I was 29 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:37.000 down in Texas drilling wells. So some group of guys 30 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:39.760 from the steel business said, hey, here's a young kid. 31 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:42.120 You know, he'll get a start in an oil business. 32 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:44.959 So I went down and I was acting more as 33 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.680 a operator than a than a geologist. But we were 34 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.840 drilling outside of Abilene and it was going well. But 35 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:55.280 then we went into you know, the cyclical decline in 36 00:01:55.359 --> 00:02:00.560 the UH in the eighties. Up dating myself, but it 37 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:05.480 was in the eighties, yeah, oh terrible, and we did 38 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:07.560 you know, it was such a if you go back 39 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:10.159 into the seventies a little bit like now, it was 40 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.280 a big oil shock. There were a couple of them, 41 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.159 and everybody got into business. Everybody. The rig count was 42 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:21.759 you know, in the seventy nine eighty era, rig count 43 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.120 was five thousand. Every you know, it's all verticals. Then 44 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:26.840 you know they need a lot of rigs, but everybody 45 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.360 was getting into it. All sorts of investor programs. When 46 00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.159 you when it's funny when you're looking over an area, 47 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:35.199 especially out west, now you see all these wells that 48 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.479 were drilled back during this time, and it was just 49 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:40.960 sort of a boom. And when the boom came off 50 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:46.159 was about when I was getting started. And gradually oil price, 51 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:48.479 you know, a good price then was twenty five, but 52 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:52.319 it was trickling down and down and down, and finally 53 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:54.960 it was a bust. And I waited around Texas for 54 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.800 a year or so, a young guy, you know, are 55 00:02:57.800 --> 00:02:59.360 we going to go or not go? What should we do? 56 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.680 Finally there was nothing left. I moved back home to 57 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:08.000 the Pittsburgh area, and a friend of mine, kind hearted 58 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.960 friend of mine, started giving me work producing his commercials 59 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:17.639 forever had something to do, you know, And so I'm 60 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:19.680 doing that and I'm thinking, oh, man, I could do 61 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:21.919 this for a living if oil never comes back. And 62 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:25.759 so I ended up at NYU's New York University's graduate 63 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:29.479 Film school, and I kicked around in the movie business 64 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:31.919 for a while. You know, I had some success, you know, 65 00:03:31.960 --> 00:03:33.759 it was at Sundance, that kind of thing, had an 66 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.680 agent and all that, but it really it wasn't for me. 67 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:41.719 I just you know, just sleeping on floor things. And 68 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:47.960 ideologically I probably was a misfit. And so yeah, you know, 69 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.120 I met some great people though, and eventually I started 70 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.960 a I thought, okay, enough, so I scrapped together with 71 00:03:57.080 --> 00:03:59.439 little money I had and didn't have, and started a 72 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:02.479 rental come up and I started buying equipment and running 73 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:04.759 it out to movies and commercials and a little bit 74 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:08.000 of construction work and got into cameras and generators. We 75 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.879 got pretty big, and I used that to leverage my 76 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.520 way then to get finally back in the oil business. 77 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.319 And that was the start a frat company, and it 78 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.000 just absolutely went off the rails. It was just the 79 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.800 worst time because you know, just the same way that 80 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:27.560 you know, the seventy nine eighty boom pushed a bust 81 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.399 that I got caught up in. Now I got caught up. 82 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.680 I started this in two thousand and eight, the frack company. 83 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:34.879 I got caught up in the global financial you know, 84 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.600 recession and where the banks were failing and too big 85 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:43.360 to fail, great book the intererro Orton and got caught 86 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.079 up in that, and it was just the son of 87 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.240 a bitch. Excuse me, but trying to get this thing going, 88 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.319 and just craziness. You know, the guy pulls a knife 89 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:59.319 on me in a trailer and he's my builder. You know, 90 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.439 just crazy, and then these crazy partners and and you know, 91 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.920 I had written scripts to make a little bit of money, 92 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:08.240 and I started thinking, my god, I think I'm living 93 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.079 a movie, and so I wrote I started taking notes 94 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:14.480 that eventually got around to writing the book, and so 95 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.040 that came out a couple of months ago. But it 96 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.120 called the brov, Nuts and Riches a Startup in the 97 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:19.560 Great American Pracking Book. 98 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.360 Well, and of course one of your reviewers said it 99 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:26.199 was a rollicking ride, and that was a Wall Street 100 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:29.560 journal that reviewed that you had. I imagine just from 101 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:31.360 that little bit of a taste that we had that 102 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:33.480 I imagine it is a rollicking ride. 103 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:35.360 To about how you got into that. 104 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:37.160 If you started a couple of companies and you did 105 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.920 it successfully, I'm sure that you wouldn't have fit with 106 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.839 the film crowd that's now. It was a different kind 107 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:45.240 of culture I think completely. 108 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.600 I kind of kick out of and I like a 109 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.120 lot of these guys, but I get a kick out of, 110 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.680 you know, the awards. There's always somebody patting him on 111 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.879 the deck are always an award. It's always about their bravery. 112 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.360 But you know, in the film business, you're an echo chamber. 113 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.279 It's like you're just agreeing with everybody. These these films 114 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:07.560 that you know, get this kind of these kind of 115 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:12.360 accolades or these directors or writers, producers. Truthfully, the real 116 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.439 courage would be a conservative. Yeah, the movie in Hollywood, 117 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:21.120 there's not a chance as soon as you go there. 118 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.920 You know, I'm a big fan of James Woods. I 119 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:24.839 loved his movies. 120 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:26.560 It'd be like, well on water, wouldn't it. 121 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:30.920 But there's a guy that just shot himself in the 122 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.439 head when he came out with his own opinions because 123 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.240 they just won't have him. And he knew it. He 124 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:38.519 knew it. Yeah, and he was a great, great actor. 125 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.920 Well, when I look at the Oscars and things like that, 126 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.399 what it reminds me of for these cliques that used 127 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:45.720 to see in high school, you know, and they vote 128 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:47.920 for people for prom queen and that type of thing. 129 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.439 It is a popularity contest, and it seems like you 130 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.839 succeed in that if you're going to try to appease 131 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:58.040 everybody's feelings and flatter them and that type of thing. 132 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.040 So you know, if you're about something that serious and literal, 133 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:04.959 that would be a difficult ride to ho. I remember 134 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.480 the eighties, and you know, interestingly enough, Dan, my wife 135 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.399 and I we went to our first job was with 136 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:15.519 Texas Instruments in Houston, and so we got there as 137 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.639 everything was blowing up in nineteen eighty and it was 138 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:22.319 a boom town. And then we got kind of tired 139 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.120 of it, wing to move back home, and then we 140 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.959 couldn't couldn't sell our home. I mean, it was just 141 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.399 everything was freefall, it was collapsing. It was amazing what 142 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:34.439 happened to it, you know, the boom and the bust 143 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:36.879 cycles that happened with that. But of course we've seen 144 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.399 that a lot with the oil industry itself. I mean, 145 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.199 when you look at the boom with the OPEC embargo 146 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:44.759 and everything, you saw oil go up. And I've talked 147 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:47.399 about this a lot on my show in terms of 148 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:49.279 what's going on with the straight of hor moves right now. 149 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:53.480 With just that partial oil embargo, it was only against 150 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:55.720 Opex oil to the United States. 151 00:07:56.079 --> 00:07:58.680 We saw the price of will quadruple. 152 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.800 And so you know, you know, we look at it 153 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.519 and you know, if something like that is going to happen. Now, 154 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.360 of course, there's a lot of other variables here, and 155 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:07.600 that's one of the things I wanted to talk to 156 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:12.639 you about was Venezuela and what's going to happen there. 157 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.800 One of the things that just happened this week started 158 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.160 floating the idea of making Venezuela the fifty first state, 159 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:23.319 and I guess, I guess Canada was second. 160 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:24.600 Don't forget to get to Canada? 161 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.439 Yeah, yeah, I guess they forgot about Canada in the meantime. 162 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.680 And where does Greenland fit in? Are they number fifty three? 163 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:35.879 Maybe is going to get in the flag business? 164 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:43.240 You know, you know, I get it though, I kind 165 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.399 of Actually, I'm just you know, I write these pieces 166 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:48.399 and I'm just about to give one to the publicist. 167 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.759 I'll send it out today and I don't know where 168 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:52.960 it lands. You know, they shop it around. But what 169 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:56.759 it's about is, you know, he is you know, love 170 00:08:56.840 --> 00:08:59.840 him or hate him whereby you stand, he is so 171 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.120 of in the beginnings of remaking the global oil industry. 172 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:10.120 And really where we buy our oil and gas. You know, 173 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:14.200 we consume twenty million barrels a day of crude, and 174 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:16.279 I know, we'd like to say all we consume everything 175 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:18.720 we have, but you know, that's counting. It's kind of 176 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.759 a you're taking bet you equivalencies from natural gas production, 177 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:27.519 and that's not you know, it's it's yeah, kind is true, 178 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:31.000 but truthfully, we need twenty billion, twenty million barrels of 179 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:33.679 crude and if you look, you know, I don't know 180 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.559 if it's by plan or what. But Trump comes in, 181 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.320 he's talking drill, baby, drill, and that was the campaign rhetoric. 182 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:42.120 You know, Really we are going into kind of a 183 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.279 red count free fall, not free fall, but it's really 184 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.720 coming down because oil prices were really bad. So we 185 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:52.080 were in a bust in February and by by about 186 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.240 the fifth of March, we're in a boom because of 187 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.440 Iran and the beginnings will probably be a boom and 188 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:04.039 so you know, but but there's been a administration's done 189 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:08.159 a lot, a lot to help us producers and we're 190 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:10.679 taking advantage of some of that stuff to do with 191 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.080 BMM spacings and service facilas and all that, and it's 192 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.480 really it's really helpful. So he's kind of changing the 193 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.320 bias from what it was in the Biden administration. To 194 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:25.480 oil on instead of oil off, so you have that, 195 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.840 and then you have to Venezuela. And Venezuela at best 196 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:31.559 was you know, three million barrels a day back when 197 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.200 nex Nixon was president, you know, and it's down to 198 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:38.320 you know, about a million barrels a day. And it's 199 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.600 kind of funny because I was visiting a friend at 200 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.039 Colorado School of mine's a professor and I'm looking around 201 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:48.960 for him, and uh, I walked into an office and 202 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:51.639 it's another professor and we just start talking. He's from 203 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:55.039 Venezuela and his wife works on La or worked on 204 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:59.000 Lake Maracaivo for the Chinese. And we started talking. And 205 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:00.639 I get a call from the public assist for the 206 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.399 book and she says, hey, I need a story in Venezuela. 207 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:05.639 I go, what do I know about Venezuela? So can 208 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:07.679 you find someone? And I'm like, I'm sitting with this guy, 209 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:12.360 Lois Zurpa, who's a PhD. You know, professor Luis, are 210 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:14.600 you from Venezuela. He goes yeah, he want to write 211 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:17.559 an article? He goes, yeah, sure, man, let's write an article. 212 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.120 So he provided the insight from you know, hands on 213 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:26.799 in Venezuela and talked about the rinko probably not pronouncing 214 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:30.720 it right, you know, the super heavy oils. But what's 215 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.240 going to happen down there is Chris Wright is doing 216 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.240 a great job. I really think highly of Chris Right. 217 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.679 Anybody in the oil business thinks highly of Chris Right. 218 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.639 The US Energy Secretary. He started a couple of companies, 219 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:46.480 but the big one was Liberty, and it's a frack company, 220 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.519 but it's a little more than that. And it's a 221 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:51.840 bunch of really smart guys like himself, an MIT engineer. 222 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:57.039 They put this together and anyways, Right is down in 223 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.559 you know is I mean physically, but he's pushing. The 224 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.360 first thing to do is we get the dilutants that 225 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:07.120 are needed that were kind of embargoed out of or 226 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:11.200 sanctioned out of the picture. And those dilutants immediately boasted 227 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:14.159 that production by a couple hundred barrels a day. And 228 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.960 now I'm hearing that excellent. If you remember Darren Wood's 229 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:22.120 comment it's uninvestible when all the major the CEOs of 230 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.039 the majors got together at their house, you know, he 231 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:29.039 kind of broke rags and said, hey, it's uninvestable. Now 232 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.639 now I'm hearing excellent s poking around down there, So 233 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:34.720 I think that that they're going to end up pushing it. 234 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:38.360 And if it doesn't go to hell, you know, you know, 235 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:40.919 who knows politically what happens down there. But if we 236 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:44.559 can keep it together, you know, maybe that all starts 237 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:48.200 going to us instead of the Chinese. The Mexican market 238 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:50.639 is off a little bit, their mind cruds which are 239 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:53.840 essential to our Gulf Coast refineries that require the heavier 240 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:56.799 cruds than the light stuff we're pulling out of shales. 241 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.519 You know, there's a difference in gravity is a way 242 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.840 to measure it. But very light, low sulfur cruise. But 243 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.600 the refineries need some of that heavier stuff that comes 244 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.200 out of Alberta or out of you know, Venezuela or 245 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:12.480 out of the Hopefully he can hear me that someone 246 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:18.600 mowing the lawn outside, but we uh So, anyways, collectively, 247 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.159 you round up all this North and South American production 248 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.559 and we're about eighteen million barrels and then you start 249 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.799 adding in some other stuff. Uh you know, maybe Trump's 250 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.720 doing something here and to his point, let everyone else 251 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.440 fix the horror moves straight. You know, the Europeans and 252 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:41.399 Japan and China that are using it because maybe he is. 253 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:46.159 Maybe the ultimately what we end up with is regionalism 254 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:49.440 in the oil market rather than globalism. And so instead 255 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:55.080 of us buying you know, cruits from overseas, we just 256 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.720 keep it. You know, recently we keep it here Canada, 257 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:03.000 Canada for about four million barrels a day. Alaska. Trump 258 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.440 is opening Alaska Hillcore is a is a big part 259 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:07.080 of Alaska. 260 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:07.480 You know. 261 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.919 Jeff Hildebrand, you know, kind of another self made you know, 262 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.919 guy like Harold Ham and very big. He he now 263 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:20.919 owns the the Alaska Pipeline, this company, and so with 264 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:23.440 all this going on, it takes a long time to 265 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:27.000 build production. But we're sort of really truly knocking at 266 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:32.639 that energy independence, you know, Moniker, the kind of getting there. 267 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:35.600 I mean, it's a really that's a really simple way 268 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.919 just address a really complex problem. Because oil flows everywhere. 269 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.240 It's a real network coming and going, and uh, you know, 270 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:48.840 refinery capacity everything else. But the simplis of terms numbers 271 00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:53.519 we're getting with our production, Canadian production and South American production, 272 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:58.600 we're pretty friendly nation production lists. We're pretty close to 273 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:00.000 what we need to be selling. 274 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:02.480 Well, let me ask you about that because you know, 275 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:05.519 when we get people like Biden in and these people 276 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:07.279 who want to just keep it in the ground, they 277 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.960 say right, and they are hell bent on no matter 278 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.559 what it costs, they want to shut down the production 279 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:17.120 of oil. And so there's a political component to this. 280 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:21.759 Even if we get this all this stuff running, they 281 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:24.039 may wind up shutting it down at a later point 282 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.639 in time. And that kind of brings us back to Venezuela. 283 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:28.519 Know how much of the problems that we see in 284 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.639 Venezuela and they're setting on a massive amount of oil 285 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:35.360 compared to any other country, and and yet they can't 286 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.240 get it out of the ground. And it wasn't because 287 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:41.720 they didn't want to, like it is with the American politicians. 288 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:45.960 But it's a combination of politics, I'm sure of socialism 289 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.080 and confiscation and all the rest of stuff that happened 290 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.120 with that. How much of that was a technical issue 291 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:54.320 that can now be solved other than the fact that 292 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.559 to build up infrastructure it takes a time. You can't 293 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.159 just turn a switch and have this mass of infrastructure 294 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:01.600 in place. 295 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.799 Well, that's the problem. It's it's a big infrastructure build 296 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:07.519 out and that doesn't mean just surface that means you know, 297 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.039 failed failed casing. You know that that that keeps the 298 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.919 integrity of well attacked on the ground. So it means 299 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:17.639 a number of different things. But I have found that 300 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.759 the oil industry is really good at getting up and going, 301 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:27.759 and I think, I think, uh, it'll go along fairly quickly. 302 00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:29.000 I don't. I don't think it's going to solve all 303 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.720 our problems Venezuela. It's super heavy oil. It's very expensive 304 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.080 to extract. That takes us to a separate issue. We'll 305 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.279 get the oil prices and you know, I'm sure, but 306 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:42.759 it's a it'll be quick, you know. But again it's 307 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.919 you know, it's not there's there's that's the one belt. 308 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.759 There are there are other there are other crew Uh, 309 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.600 there is other crew reservoirs in their basins in Venezuela 310 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.559 which are more kind of conventional and don't have that 311 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.679 low eight degree gravity stuff, which is basically you know, 312 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.399 just to the majority of the oil coming out of 313 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:06.960 Venezuela will not float on water. It's really heavy and 314 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.119 so it's got to be diluted and refined. It's expensive, 315 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:19.559 so it will play largely into our mix. But you 316 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.599 can't have fifty or sixty dollars oil For that to work, 317 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:27.519 you just can't. And so just by way of example, 318 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:30.359 you know, we're drilling wells in the Powder River basin 319 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:35.200 with another company, I started another startup. But so we drill, 320 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.119 we frack our wells back east and then where we 321 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:40.720 frack for higher back east and we drill our own 322 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:45.759 wells out in Wyoming's Potter River. And you know, the 323 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.160 well cost primarily driven by steel prices because you run 324 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:52.880 a lot of steel in horizontal wells, a lot a 325 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.920 lot of steel, miles of it. And it's coming up 326 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:02.119 about sixty five sixty seventy per quite a bit. And 327 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.599 we were fifty dollars oil. So if you put that 328 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.160 in the basket, so you've got the weil costs have 329 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.240 gone up an enormous amount, and then you've had you 330 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:15.440 know a lot of inflation in the Biden administration, and 331 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.200 so you put that in the basket as that relates 332 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.720 to price, you know, pricing to oil prices. And so 333 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.599 you go back in time, and the seventy dollars of 334 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.440 oil a barrel. You know, we're all over the place 335 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.519 back in fifteen and sixteen seventeen, but we were, we 336 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:38.160 were you know, sixty dollars oil then it was a 337 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.400 lot better than sixty dollars oil now. And you know, 338 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:45.720 and then you have more expensive wells. So when when 339 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:50.039 Trump is pushing you know, you know oil in the 340 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.039 fifties and sixties, we don't survive. You can pump a well, 341 00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:55.519 you can pump an existing well based on what your 342 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.680 lease operating costs, what it costs a lift in transport 343 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.599 a barrel of oil that but to go drill it, 344 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.480 it makes no sense. That's why the recount was falling 345 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:07.440 all through twenty twenty five and was looking and when 346 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.480 it hit fifty five, everybody that I'm talking to, and 347 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:13.640 I'm talking to all the other operators, you know, are saying, 348 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.519 that's it. We were laying down. Harold Ham up in 349 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.960 the box and has never stopped drilling for thirty years. 350 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.279 And finally, I think it was in janually said that's it. 351 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:24.519 Where land brings down. Can't we can't make funey year. 352 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:30.839 So you can't have energy independence without a decent energy price. 353 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.359 So I don't think anyone in my industry wants to 354 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:36.680 see one hundred dollars oil because it's disruptive. Because one 355 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.960 hundred dollars oil has always meant fifty dollars oil, and 356 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:44.079 fifty dollars oil generally are always means one hundred dollars oil. 357 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:48.079 You know that sign curve or bone bus and so really, 358 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.359 you know, I'm not the only guy saying it, but 359 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.279 we need something in the mid to high seventies, low 360 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:58.119 eighties to continue going. And I'm sure venus Willa needs 361 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.680 more than you know. Because expensive than shale, shale is 362 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.559 really cheap. That's all the majors started buying up, you know, 363 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:10.400 permium based independence because shale cycles fast and it's it's cheap. 364 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.240 It's a lot cheaper and less time consuming than developing 365 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:16.720 an offshore field. So that's why there's been a shift 366 00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.000 to it. But but we can't survive at that. It's 367 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:22.000 it's so when we say we're going to cut the 368 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.920 energy and prices in half, we're gonna be energy independence, 369 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.119 that's not true. You can't do it well. It is. 370 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.240 It is truly amazing. And you see this movement bus 371 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:34.000 cycle and it's always political. I mean, it's either an embargo, 372 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:38.480 or it is centralized control and central planning that is 373 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.680 killing the thing, or it's a war that is causing 374 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:43.119 it to go up or something like that. But it 375 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:47.039 always goes back to political and and I guess that's 376 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.160 the problem. You know, it would be nice if they 377 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.480 would just let markets operate, but they're not going to 378 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:55.240 do that. We go back and we look at Venezuela. 379 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.640 So tell us a bit about the political history of 380 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.160 the the wells from your perspective happening down there. 381 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.079 I'm sorry, the political history. 382 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:09.519 Yeah, the political perspective. You know, there was a lot 383 00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:13.920 of oil company assets that were seized by the by 384 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.279 the Marxists down there and that type of thing, and 385 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.599 you know, well it was left in terms of engineers 386 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.799 and people could who could actually produce something? Did that 387 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:25.480 drive them all out and go to other countries? And 388 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:28.880 that time, I know, the oil companies themselves had their products, 389 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.920 but what about the infrastructure of personnel that were there. 390 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.880 Your friend who's a pH d in petroleum. 391 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.920 Yeah, I mean, you know, there's no jobs. And so 392 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.480 you know, it's the American influencer, you know, and Slamberge 393 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.920 great Company Services Company, which is a French company, but 394 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:50.920 you know it's you know, it's basically headquartered in Houston, 395 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:56.559 but not really but basically and it's uh, you know, 396 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.279 you Halberton wasn't getting paid, you know, and they got 397 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.200 caught up in the nationalization. There's two of them and 398 00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.720 maybe others, but two major ones in Venezuela, and uh, 399 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:10.079 you know, Excellon lost a fortune. Chevron stuck around because 400 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.559 they agreed to abide by, you know, what the socialists demanded, 401 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:18.200