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Speaker 1: Good morning everybody. Pell is he here? This is another

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FM podcast. Got a great show for you today. My

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good friend Ted Russell Camp, bass player for the Smoking Kills,

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which is the band that I'm in and plays with

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Shooter Jennings. He has a brand new record that is

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called California Sun which is out now. It is available.

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He is on the show to talk about that album

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and have a great little conversation about his life. It's

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going to be great, I know because we did the

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interview last week. Ah recording the interview tomorrow for the

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Flip book which is called Thanks for Having Us. Bren

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Aaran's from Flip and the books writer John mccolsky are

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going to be on the show and I'll be co

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hosted with Keith Roth from series is Exam, Ozzie's Boneyard

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and Hair Nation and from the band The Dictators, who

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you also know was on the show on the Metallica

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the was it the Listener Summit? I believe so. Yeah.

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Enjoy the show and if you are coming to Vegas

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this weekend. Two great things that are happening. One at

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a tribute to Ace Freeley, my Ace Frehley tribute band.

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We are playing with LVDC at counts vamped. Todd Hallworth

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from Frehley's comment is Playing with Us is going to

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be a great show. Ten dollars at the door. But

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if you are coming and want a table, call them

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right now and reserve your table. Also, if you are

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a metor fan you like the heavy metal music, which

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I of course love as well, and you are going

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to be in town for the Monto Mars show, there

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is this little thing called the Metal Blade Records Museum,

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so they do tours and you're going to want to

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get on metal Blade dot com slash Museum and look

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for Saturday because Brian Slagel will be doing the tour.

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And a little birdie told me there may be a

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couple special guests because there's important people in town for

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that show. So get on it. It's only twenty bucks

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and uh it's limited, so get on it right now.

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Metal Blade dot Com, slash Museum, without further ado, ladies

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and gentlemen, My good friend, my bandmate, the incomparable, the

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ultimate man who he sweats positivity, he makes you smile.

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His name is Ted Russell.

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Speaker 2: Hi, this is Bobby Brown and welcome to another fucking podcast.

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Speaker 1: My Liver's all twisted up.

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Speaker 3: But you know what I did, iloaded up with alcohol,

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more specifically vodka, twisty beer, tequila, more beer, more vodka,

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more whisty, and more beer.

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Speaker 2: Once an orange whippen hunch whip, unch whip, three orange whips.

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Saw you're for.

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Speaker 1: I've come here to break your monotony. Let me have

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my piece because I'm shooting with this one. Folks, I

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don't fare man.

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Speaker 2: The unsprinted, uncensored, loose cannon of common tanner.

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Speaker 1: Did you say that? Why you come out with stink

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like that? Poop poop out.

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Speaker 2: Sea sun Old legends never die, They just lose quake.

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Speaker 1: It's like a legend and an outawork bumb of a

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lot of light.

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Speaker 2: Lenny.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I've got a midget friend and albino friends and

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another friend who thinks Lord of the Rings is real.

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Speaker 2: Together we call ourselves the Unfugomtable, won is it? Let

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the fun be in?

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Speaker 1: Hello Las Vegas, Hello world, Hello my loyal minions. It

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is good to see you, and it's always good to

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be seeing the show as another FM podcast. I'm your host,

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Izzy Presley, it is good to be here. Make sure

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you tell everybody about the show, Share it with your friends. Subscribe,

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hit that YouTube thing right down there. I'm too lazy

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to or inept to put the you know they put

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the link on the screen. Yeah, it's just not me.

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I can't do that shit. But loick that subscribe button

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and do it on the on the iTunes and wherever

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you get your get your podcasts. What else have we

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got coming up this Saturday night? The twenty fifth act

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Attribute to a Fraili is playing at Counts Vamps. So

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if you are in Vegas, come down and check us out.

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Opening up for LVDC, the Sin Cities exclusive ac DC

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tribute band, and we have Todd Howill from Frayley's comment

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and seven oh seven and Cheap Trick and Ted Nugent

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and Peter Frampton playing with us. So that is going

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to be phenomenal. And also if you do like the show,

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make sure you reach out. You can donate if you

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like at real Izzy Presley is the Venmo dollars on

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Ezzy Presley is your pay Pal or no, no, no no,

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that's the cash app at Izzy Presley at yahoo dot com.

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And now I'm gonna kick this off like I always

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do in the words my close personal friends Stone call

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Steve Austin rack one for the Working Man, Oh really quick.

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Next week. Next week Keith Roth from sirius X and

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we'll be co hosting and we will have uh John

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Dikkowski on along with Brenarns from Flip talking about the

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brand new book that is out. Also make sure you

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guys check that out. But joining me is one of

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my favorite people in the world. Somebody I'm lucky enough

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to be in a bandwidth and plays with Shooter Jennings

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and he's has a great solo career and his name

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is Ted Russell Camp. It is good to see you,

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my friend.

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Speaker 4: It's good to see you again too.

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Speaker 1: It's been way too long. I think it's been uh September,

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I believe was the pool party might have been the

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last time I saw. Yeah, that's right. But before we

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get into the record, which is called California Son and

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it's available now wherever you can get your get your music,

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did you ever think that, other than being like a

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mention in a Shooter Jennings article, that there would be

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a Rolling Stone article about Ted Russell Camp.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was pretty cool, and that just came out

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a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, it was a great article,

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and I you know, I thought it was going to

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be more about the album in particular, but it was

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kind of a a whole kind of biography about me

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and growing up and how I moved to l A

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and my life here and other people I played with

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and all my stuff pro shooter, uh and my solid career.

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Speaker 4: So it was pretty great. It was quite an honor.

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Speaker 1: It's I tell you what it's you know, even though

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Rolling Stone isn't what Rolling Stone was, it's still pretty

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fucking cool to say that Rolling Stone wrote an article

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about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was pretty awesome.

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Speaker 2: So uh.

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Speaker 1: And the album is called California Song. It is out.

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It is out, It's available now, and I listened to

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it yesterday finally I heard the debut on a Shooters

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show was on Excellent, correct, yep, And I was like, okay,

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that's this is cool. This is badass. I really enjoy

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the record and the thing that I love about your writing, Ted,

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and even with the smoking kill stuff, it's you still

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have what I think a lot of music is missing,

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and that is the art of the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for saying that. And so many

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songs are about just like a moment. Yeah, and especially

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when you get you know, especially as you as you

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have a lot of modern dance music or hip hop. Yeah,

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i'd say dance music and R and B as much

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about this is what I'm feeling right now, Babe, I

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gotta tell you, you know what I mean, you left me.

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I need you. Let's get together. I feel so good

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whatever it is. And one of the things that I

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always loved about country music and even like old like

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folk music is these stories and this evolution of what

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happens to this person when they do the right thing

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or the wrong thing and they die or their loved

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one has to leave Ireland and come to America or something.

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So not that all my songs have that kind of

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uh level of intensity, but yeah, I like I like

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it when there's the beginning, in the middle and an

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end and you have or not grow or be in

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the conflict and then kind of at least see tomorrow

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past it. You know, well, how'd you feel that? And

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hear that in the music?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's that's really the art of drama. If you

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I mean, if you think about I mean, you know,

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Star Wars geeks, we can we can always talk about this.

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There's you've got the new Star Wars, which is actually

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what it really is Star Wars. Then you have the

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you know, the big dramatic ending and the good guys won,

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that all of a sudden, Empire strikes back. Bad guys win,

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and that's the downside, that's the dark side. And then

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the triumph at the end if Return of the Jedi.

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It's that is the art of storytelling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And each movie in its own, each good

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movie in its own has yep epic glow, you know, like,

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uh yeah, it's just human. And so much of what

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we I have to deal with in life is like

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when things don't go our way, we have to figure

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out how to improve our world. And sometimes Bob or

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your loved one or uh, you know, I've been drinking

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too much. I gotta gotta figure this out. And let

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you know, think about all the classic country song Me

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and Me and the Bottle, you know, yeah, that's that's

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a very human ancient issue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, well, I mean, well, speaking of storytelling, you know,

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the lead song, which is called California Son is really

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that is pretty much your story?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, uh that was. That might be the most

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literally autobiographical song I've ever written. And it was kind

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of an experiment to do it. Yeah, and I'm happy

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with how it turned out. And I, uh, you know,

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it starts, I'm growing up in New York.

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Speaker 4: I leave New York. I left New York in the

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rear view with the.

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Speaker 2: Open road ahead, and Seattle is my promised land. And

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I'm gigging doing every gig I can find. And then

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I moved to my apartment in Los Felis. You're the

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pioneered chicken stand, so I mentioned, like the Wards Yvonne

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pioneer chicken stand. Uh, And I'd like do a lot

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of name dropping, I say, driving down the boulevard listening

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to Tom Waits, which is one of the things I

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did when I first moved to LA and I had

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no friends, I would look in the paper and I

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would find, Oh, this is gonna be a cool gig.

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I want. I want to get to know these people, right, Yeah,

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I'm fans of the people. This is the scene I

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want to be a part of. And I would literally

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hop in my van and put on Tom Waite's Hard

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at Saturday night and then drive through Hollywood to get there.

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Like that album saved me many times.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's wild though, that driving through Hollywood. That

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is the choice. Yeah, exactly, driving I'm driving through Hollywood

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when I have my BMW, I got the top the

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moon roof open, I'm blasting Ace of Spades like this

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just feels so right. And Tom Waits was the choice.

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Speaker 4: Tom Waits was the choice.

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Speaker 2: Uh, I didn't know is show up to the place

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in the best mood or most social mood in tone?

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But uh, but yeah, And the song is very much

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about how I uh slowly met people, how I was

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drawn in by the whole myth Uh. There's a line about, uh,

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you know, like when I played the Troubador and the

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lore of Laurel Canyon and the Hollywood you know, and

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it's like I moved here as a fan of l

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A music and of course movies and film and writing.

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Uh and and and so I I don't know, I

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don't know. As I was as I was writing this song,

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it was kind of neat experiment, and I was like,

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I don't know if it should be on the record

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or not. It's kind of cool. And I was thinking,

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you know, the the same thing like when I when

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I when I separate me from being a professional musician

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or a songwriter from being a Yeah, LA as a

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magic because I think we're fans of Jackson Brown and

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the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt, Little Feet and Los Lobos

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and Dwight Yoakum and even Frank Sinatra here and Whitney

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Guthrie here, like the list goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: Elvis.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the the incredible music that was made here. And

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so there's this mythology around LA and Hollywood that is

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that that kind of spreads to everywhere else in the world.

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And so I was as I was thinking about this

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song more, I was like, you know, I'm and I'm

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and of course we're always remember the uh the documentary

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Running Down a Dream. It was like the four hour

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thing about Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers two years back,

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and it just seems so inevitable that there are a

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bunch of like high school kids in Gainesville, Florida, and

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then they take the risk to LA and it slowly works,

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and they have all this great old super eight footage

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of them rising and rising, growing and getting better and

242
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better and on all these great things happen, like there's

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a It's just so fascinating to think, like, wow, some

244
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dreams do come true, right, But it's always like these

245
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stars out in the distance, James Dean and Marilyn Monroe

246
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and Quentin Tarantino or something. And so I was like, hey,

247
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this is kind of my story where I actually came

248
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from somewhere else came to LA and now I've actually

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been here for twenty years living here, and I'm still

250
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inspired by the place. Dude.

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Speaker 1: It's so weird because I live that big dream. Yeah, no, absolutely,

252
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But this is the thing, Ted, It's like you're telling

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your story, but you're also telling everybody else's story because

254
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it's the dream, you know. It's that's I mean, like, yeah,

255
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I went out there when I was forty. That's when

256
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I went to LA. You know, I didn't go there

257
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as a young kid. I went there when I was

258
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forty just to live. But it was still and everything

259
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happened just exactly like you said. Like like you just described,

260
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it's like you get caught up in the area of

261
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going to the rainbow and oh my god, this is

262
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this is the this is the fucking whiskey. This is

263
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the whiskey. You walk in there and you walk on

264
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that stage and just think, my god.

265
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Speaker 5: Van Halen played here, you know, you know, led Zeppelin

266
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play it on this stage with Alice Cooper opening up,

267
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I mean or Black Saba, one of them, they all

268
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played there.

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Speaker 2: No, it's it's totally. It's an amazing feeling and it's

270
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you know, it's like we love music. We're sentimental as well,

271
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you know, so that stuff. It's like it's constant. When

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I get to like, hey, I got a I got

273
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a recording session next week. Oh where's it gonna be.

274
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It's at Sunset Sound. Oh you mean the place where

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they recorded Purple Rain.

276
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the pla.

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Speaker 2: Not that I'm gonna do something as good as Purple Rain,

278
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but we're gonna try. But he'll feel it, like wow,

279
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,960
Elliott Smith boys. All this stuff was like in these

280
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rooms we get to work in. Yeah, yeah, and you

281
00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:03,360
know when you and you're right when you play the whiskey,

282
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you play the tributor even the viper room, which is

283
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:10,440
kind of new where you win these places and the

284
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stuff that we love is amazing.

285
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Speaker 4: It's amazing, it really is.

286
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Speaker 1: It's just like I said, there's just something about the

287
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aura is tough as it can be, and we all

288
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know that Hollywood will chew you up and spit you

289
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out no matter what industry you're in. But it's like

290
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,120
it's just it's still Hollywood, you know, it's just so weird.

291
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

292
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Speaker 4: Yeah, No, it's amazing.

293
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Speaker 2: And so many people move here from so many different

294
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places and then some last, some don't.

295
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Speaker 4: Some have a wonderful time, some have a hard time.

296
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

297
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Speaker 2: And now that now that, I mean, I've been here

298
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twenty years, I have no plans on leaving. Yeah, Like

299
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I'm a lifer, and I figured it, Okay, I can,

300
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:56,159
I can. I can write this and it'll be believable

301
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and hopefully other people will enjoy it too. You know.

302
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Speaker 1: The think part of it is is you have a

303
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:07,519
house that you bought before it got ridiculously expensively. Yeah,

304
00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:09,319
that was part of it. Was it hard for you

305
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,799
to write that? Did you feel like you were journaling?

306
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Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, I kind of like like I I had

307
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,599
different versions of the verses that were a little too

308
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,200
just like details. Yeah, And I was like, no, I

309
00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:27,720
have I want there as the imagery or some metaphors

310
00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,000
and some you know, I have to. I wanted to

311
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:32,119
add more poetry to it, but still have.

312
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Speaker 4: It be very direct, you know what I mean?

313
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, And I wanted to talk about the dreaminess

314
00:17:38,039 --> 00:17:41,680
of it that goes hand in hand with the details.

315
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Speaker 4: So getting that light, you know, like I have one line, it's.

316
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Speaker 2: Like, uh, just me and old guitar and a beat

317
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,480
up Chevy Van. Yeah, like I could have I could have.

318
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I could have described the contents of my first apartment

319
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and the desk I bought at Ikea and the couch

320
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we got I was in the storage based on the

321
00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:06,079
bottom of the apartment building because some other guy left

322
00:18:06,079 --> 00:18:08,119
it there two years ago. But it's like you leave

323
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,160
out some of those details, right, But me and my

324
00:18:11,279 --> 00:18:13,480
old guitar and it beat up Chevy Van. It's like, oh,

325
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:15,039
there's a nice ring to that, right.

326
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,759
Speaker 1: Well, you are a wordsmith, there is no doubt about it. You. Uh,

327
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:22,759
how long have you been working on the songs for

328
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,319
this record? It's I mean it seems like you put

329
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,079
you constantly put stuff out.

330
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

331
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Speaker 4: I try to have a record every year or two.

332
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Speaker 2: Uh. And sometimes I'm faster, sometimes I'm slower. I started

333
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:40,359
working on most of these songs during the quarantine during COVID,

334
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,240
and I did I actually did a record that came

335
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,759
out during COVID called Solitaire.

336
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Speaker 4: That's right, kind of.

337
00:18:47,319 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 2: Where Moody or introspective, a little more acoustic guitar and uh. So,

338
00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:56,880
as I was writing those songs, I was actually writing

339
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,160
a bunch of these songs too, and I decided to

340
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,400
kind of save the more upbeat ones for the next record.

341
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,759
Not really what the next record was going to be,

342
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,720
but it was like, right now, everybody's stuck at home

343
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,440
dealing with FaceTime and Zoom calls and Amazon Prime, So

344
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,079
now's the time to put out a mellow record because.

345
00:19:16,759 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 4: We're all home and we want uh you know, and

346
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:20,519
I know all the all all.

347
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 2: The friends that I was getting together with, Uh, it's

348
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,759
like half of what we're talking about is just kind

349
00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:26,960
of surprised, like what do we?

350
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 4: What do we do now? How do we? How do

351
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,039
we live? And so I wanted so I wrote a

352
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:35,279
lot of those songs that kind of dealt with that,

353
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:37,599
and also dealt with kind.

354
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Speaker 2: Of more of a dreamy what happens after m you

355
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,119
know energy, So it wasn't solitary, It wasn't entirely a

356
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,480
downer record, but I did want it to be a

357
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:48,839
moody album that was kind of more acoustic. H Like

358
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,039
I said, I always loved like early Tom Waits and

359
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,440
Nick Drake and like early Joni Mitchell, so.

360
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Speaker 4: I let that record be the folky mellow one.

361
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Speaker 2: And knowing that, okay, well, in a year or two,

362
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,240
it'll be time to rock and party and we're going

363
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:06,079
to be back in clubs and musicians can get back

364
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,680
on the road and people are gonna want to celebrate again.

365
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,519
So that's what the Second California Sun evolved into.

366
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,640
Speaker 1: And it's just so growing up in New York. So

367
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,319
are you from like northern New York or where in

368
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,240
New York I was?

369
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,200
Speaker 4: I was Westchester County, So I was a suburbs north

370
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:26,880
of New York City.

371
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:27,559
Speaker 1: Okay.

372
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: I grew up in Hartsdale, uh, and then moved to

373
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,400
Chappaquah and for like middle school and high school. So

374
00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:37,519
it was like, if you leave Manhattan, you get to

375
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,279
the Bronx, and then the next thing is Westchester.

376
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:41,039
Speaker 1: Okay.

377
00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 2: My parents actually met in Brooklyn and then suburbs when

378
00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:46,920
it was time to have the kids.

379
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:50,160
Speaker 1: Did you get the did you get the pizza snobbiness

380
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,079
that comes with being an East Coaster?

381
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't get agro about it like many

382
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,960
people do, but I can definitely tell the difference between

383
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:03,559
great pizza and okay, pizza.

384
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. How do you fuck up pizza?

385
00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:07,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

386
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's great pizza everywhere there really is. It's like

387
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,519
so many East Coast Yeah, I don't know.

388
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,559
Speaker 2: But like like anything is, like Duke Ellington said, it great,

389
00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:21,640
there's two kinds of music, good and bad.

390
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

391
00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:27,880
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not exactly what I it's not New York style,

392
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,519
but it could still be pretty great.

393
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:31,279
Speaker 1: Pretty damn good.

394
00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:31,440
Speaker 2: Well.

395
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:33,319
Speaker 1: See, I like growing up in the Midwest. I like

396
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,480
the Midwestern tavern you know, the square cuts and the

397
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:40,960
thin craw Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, beautiful. It's beautiful. It's

398
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,880
good stuff. But so growing up where you grew up,

399
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,519
where did your where did your love of country music

400
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,000
come from?

401
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,599
Speaker 2: Country came later growing up? Okay, there was absolutely no

402
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,759
country music in my life at all.

403
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 4: I grew up.

404
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 2: Actually, one of the great things about growing up in

405
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,920
the suburbs is had MTV before the rest of the

406
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:02,400
world got.

407
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:04,039
Speaker 4: It was a local thing.

408
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:04,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

409
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 2: So when I was like ten, eleven and twelve, I

410
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,680
could get home from school Arthur Quinn and like the

411
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:15,680
new Police video and take on me and I remember

412
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,599
Money for Nothing video the first time that came out

413
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,200
and was like, oh my god, this is some weird

414
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,240
new digital technology.

415
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:22,079
Speaker 4: What's going on here?

416
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,559
Speaker 2: You know? And this is also like a lot of

417
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:28,599
the videos were like really cheaply done. Of course they

418
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,279
would get you know, the band in a room and

419
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,359
I'm thinking of I'm thinking of Tony Basil. Oh oh, Ricky,

420
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,039
You're so fine.

421
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 1: You're dancing around.

422
00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 4: In front of a wall, you know what I mean.

423
00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,559
Speaker 2: But so my my first music that I got to

424
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:47,799
like was just like the pop popular stuff that was

425
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:48,400
on MTV.

426
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 4: So it was like Phil Collins and.

427
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: Men at Work yep.

428
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:52,599
Speaker 4: And I loved Boston.

429
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: I loved Boston Ario Speedwagon.

430
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Police.

431
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: I was very excited because the Police East was the

432
00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:05,079
first band that I owned all of their albums. It

433
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,279
was only five, but I thought that was in the world.

434
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,319
Speaker 1: You know, dude, it's so weird. Look, it's so weird

435
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,839
that you say the Police, because usually the band that

436
00:23:13,079 --> 00:23:16,759
people brag about that is Kiss.

437
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: Dude.

438
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:22,279
Speaker 1: I had, I had, and I had all the albums,

439
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,440
and I had the comic book. Everything is. People never

440
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,920
brag about having the entire Police catalog.

441
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 2: I got the Police catalog. Uh. Then uh, let's say

442
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,880
even before that, my first instrument was trumpet. So I

443
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,640
was always brilly bands and school bands, and I was

444
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,960
in a few bands that were like big bands, like

445
00:23:43,079 --> 00:23:45,559
doing Tommy Dorsey and Glenn Miller and count Based.

446
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow.

447
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,559
Speaker 4: And my dad my parents were pre Beatles.

448
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 2: My parents, my dad was jazz, my mom was in

449
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,480
classical uh, and like they were not really rock and

450
00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:02,200
roll people at all. So I would go to jazz

451
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:05,319
concerts with my dad and get into stan Getz and

452
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,240
and I never saw Miles Davis when I saw stan

453
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:11,720
Getz when I was young, Jerry Mulligan and Doc Cheatham,

454
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:12,519
so I.

455
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 4: Was I was really into that.

456
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,319
Speaker 2: Then. Let's see, when I was in high school, I

457
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,920
got an electric bass and I joined the band with

458
00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:26,640
some friends of mine, and we were doing like ah Genesis.

459
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,119
We did some Stones tunes, we did any way you

460
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,880
wanted my journey, Uh, we did, We did some we

461
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,920
did some Van Halen. I remember being really bored by

462
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,680
Van Halen songs because the baits parts were very boring

463
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,200
and kind of one note over and over and over.

464
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

465
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:44,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a zen thing that comes later

466
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,640
with age when you realize, wow, that was absolutely the

467
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:53,359
perfect thing Michael Anthony could so like he wasn't really

468
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,519
good or couldn't keep that's like, no, that's the perfect thing.

469
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,960
He eat it down so that everyone else could go crazy.

470
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:04,079
Speaker 1: You know, uh, what what was it about the bass

471
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,599
that drew you to the bass? I mean, could you

472
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,359
not figure out how to run the lights? I mean,

473
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,759
what what was it about the bass?

474
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,559
Speaker 4: You know? It was funny. I just loved the bass.

475
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:21,480
Speaker 2: I had my my aid an eighth grade music class.

476
00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:24,119
It was like one houry other day or something like that,

477
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,799
and the teacher would have acoustic guitars and she would

478
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:32,319
she would teach us like take me home, country roads

479
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,359
and where have all the flowers gone? Like folks songs,

480
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:38,000
and in retrospect, she must have been a real like

481
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,839
woodstock hippie and so now this.

482
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 4: And so that's that's what she loves. So that's what

483
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,359
she taught us. And so we're learning all this like, uh,

484
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,960
this land is your land kind of stuff.

485
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: I showed up. I showed up one day to class

486
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,799
early and there was a guitar case in the corner

487
00:25:56,599 --> 00:25:58,920
and I said, missus Barnes, what's that. She's like, Oh,

488
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,839
that's my son's electric I said, Wow.

489
00:26:01,759 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 4: Can I Can I look at it? Can I play

490
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,000
it for a second?

491
00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: She said, yeah, just be careful, way before most of

492
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,240
the other people get here.

493
00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:12,839
Speaker 4: Right opened up the case and I was like, oh,

494
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,039
this is unbelievable.

495
00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:16,759
Speaker 2: And I played like six notes and it was the

496
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,240
coolest thing I had ever experienced, Like, I just immediately

497
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:20,680
loved it.

498
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,319
Speaker 4: And I don't know why. I don't know how, but

499
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,960
it was cooler than the guitar.

500
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:28,799
Speaker 1: It was, and so it was just meant to be.

501
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,519
Speaker 4: It was just meant to be.

502
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,319
Speaker 2: And then I told my parents about it, and I

503
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,359
did a lot of lawn mowing, and then that that

504
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,480
combined with Christmas the next year. That was my first

505
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:45,000
electric bass was my Christmas present.

506
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 4: Oh and check this out.

507
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:52,599
Speaker 1: You have it, ladies and gentlemen. He is running that

508
00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:56,799
all the shit. You You are one of the few

509
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,799
that still have their very first yeahstment.

510
00:27:01,079 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: Wow.

511
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: Oh it was a big guy, your real fender. It

512
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:06,119
wasn't that wasn't.

513
00:27:09,759 --> 00:27:10,559
Speaker 4: No, this is this.

514
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,799
Speaker 2: This is from nineteen eighty three, so it had been

515
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,640
sitting in the store for at least a few years

516
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,880
before I showed up. Wow, and the guy and actually

517
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,559
and actually, strangely, you know how those sam Ash stores

518
00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:24,079
are closing.

519
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I got it at sam Ash Plains, New York.

520
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: Oh wow, And so.

521
00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:33,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got Sash and and my mom and I

522
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,559
come in and we're like, we'd like a bass, and

523
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,960
this is the one you want.

524
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,319
Speaker 4: It's really good. It's kind of a slightly older model.

525
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 2: It's not that sexy, but it'll be good for you now,

526
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:48,599
and if you get better and really stick with it,

527
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,279
it's still going to be a good instrument for you.

528
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:55,599
And they literally had this is a a specific you remember,

529
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,240
you remember, like, uh, Eric Clapton pretending, pretend.

530
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

531
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: Anyway, so that was the same era as this, and

532
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:10,160
it used to have active pickups and I hated the

533
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,759
sound of these active pickups and apparently everyone else in

534
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:15,480
the world did to, except for Eric Clapton, so it

535
00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:20,160
didn't sell. So I got there and I got this bass.

536
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,240
And then a few years Actually it was embarrassing. I

537
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:27,559
didn't really realize that you were allowed to change the pickups, right,

538
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:29,119
are you know what I mean?

539
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:29,279
Speaker 1: Right?

540
00:28:29,799 --> 00:28:32,279
Speaker 2: So it wasn't until years later I was like, I

541
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:34,640
hate thee I love the feel of this bass, but

542
00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:36,079
I hate the sound of this bass.

543
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,119
Speaker 1: So it took you that long to realize you hated

544
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:39,720
how it sound.

545
00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: Well, Uh, you know, when.

546
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: You're young, anything that's loud enough is great. You're not

547
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:50,480
really true really get tone yet you know right that

548
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,680
that gets subtler as you go along in your years

549
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,279
of listening and playing. Uh. So it was, it was fine,

550
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,519
but then as I as I got into cop and

551
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:03,359
I started getting another couple of bassess like this one

552
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,359
doesn't play as well, but I like how it sounds better. Right,

553
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,799
And then later on I realized I just I just

554
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,359
put a vintage p bass pickup in it, and then

555
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,440
now it's still one of my favorite bases I play.

556
00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,799
Speaker 1: Speaking of tone, TED Beater Amplification that's two Easbeater Amplication

557
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,480
dot com. You can see that bad boy right behind me. Yes,

558
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,759
one hundred watts of testicular fortitude, pull two tubes. You

559
00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,880
have a fifty ted. You've heard this this amp on

560
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,640
stage before. It sounds great.

561
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: With that amp, and it sounds I have.

562
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,519
Speaker 1: I have Beater Amplification dot Com. That is to ease

563
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,319
as you can see on the amp face right over

564
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:44,039
there there and the sumbitches on top and uh, grocery

565
00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:47,400
store gals right behind there, and uh so, yeah, it's

566
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,440
sitting right next speaking of tone as well by vinted

567
00:29:50,599 --> 00:29:55,039
USA V fifty two telecaster back there, which is another

568
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:59,720
great instruments, so check them out. Vinted USA Guitars phenomenal

569
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:05,799
nominal instruments. So you always have you always been a

570
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,079
Fender guy. Did you ever like veer off into like

571
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,160
the Gibson grabber?

572
00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 4: Yes, I actually got it.

573
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: I actually ended up getting a deal with Gibson. Actually, uh,

574
00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:17,240
we we got caught up in my middle school. In

575
00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:19,720
high school, we didn't really get to discovering country music.

576
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:20,559
But we'll get there soon.

577
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:22,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll get there anyway.

578
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,839
Speaker 2: So I'm gigging all through high school and college. I

579
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,319
got into the jazz with the acoustic bass in height

580
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,799
in college, and then I moved to Seattle to start

581
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:33,200
to play.

582
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, now, hold on what year is this

583
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,880
that you're there? You went to Seattle?

584
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, well you were just ninety three and ninety four.

585
00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:46,799
Speaker 1: So you you went to Seattle right after the Great

586
00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:49,559
Wall of Nirvana hit when all the bands out of

587
00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:51,400
Seattle were getting signed. Was that one of the things

588
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,799
that made you go to Seattle?

589
00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: Actually, know what made me go was my girlfriend from

590
00:30:58,079 --> 00:31:01,400
college who wanted to. She'd been there on a road

591
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,640
trip and loved it. And I of course heard about grunge,

592
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,880
but I was not a big fan of it. I

593
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,880
wasn't as hard rock as that, you know, but I

594
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,759
respected that music right, and actually, as an adult, I've

595
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:20,799
gotten to really love it much more. You know, it's

596
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,480
it's awesome and heavy and soulful and yeah, weak, profound music.

597
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:32,119
But I actually found one magazine article about Seattle and

598
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,839
it talked about all these great bars and that there's

599
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,480
a night life aside from grunge, and I was like,

600
00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:39,359
I think I could do this. I see at least

601
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,319
twenty bars listed in this article. And there was a place,

602
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,960
there's a place in old town of Seattle called Pine

603
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,880
or Square where there would be like one cover for

604
00:31:50,079 --> 00:31:52,880
nine clubs. And so you could go to any of

605
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,400
these clubs and pay your ten dollars cover and then

606
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,839
you see blues in one place, reggae at one place,

607
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,359
jazz at one place, rocket, one place, ska plunk, you know,

608
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,039
a second jazz group, a second.

609
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 4: Blues group, you know what I mean. And so I

610
00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:09,160
was able to move anyway.

611
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: We sold everything we could bought an AMC Concord and

612
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,599
drove across country to Seattle. Got an apartment I got,

613
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,440
I bought an acoustic based within the first week, and

614
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,599
I just started like playing on the street and answering

615
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,200
ads and going to blues jam sessions and all that stuff.

616
00:32:27,599 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: So I started.

617
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: I started playing music for a living in Seattle and

618
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:35,359
every gig and I was there for maybe six seven years.

619
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:39,799
It was great, it was. And the thing is, I

620
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,680
had some friends. I went to college in upstate New York,

621
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:45,720
and I had some friends that had moved to New

622
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:48,880
York City. And I was like, Okay, they're all waiters,

623
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,559
they're all bartenders. One guy works in a freight store.

624
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,680
It's incredibly expensive, and they all get to rehearse once

625
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,960
a month, or they rehearsed once a week and gig

626
00:32:58,079 --> 00:33:00,400
once a month. And I was like, I need a

627
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,240
smaller city where I have a chance to play more

628
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:07,279
and Seattle. Seattle was exactly that. It was great.

629
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 4: I was.

630
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 2: I was immediately kind of freelancing and playing in like

631
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:13,240
nine different bands and wow.

632
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: And then that's the things like if you would have

633
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,799
went straight to LA you would have been one of

634
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:20,519
those guys as a waiter.

635
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:23,519
Speaker 2: Yes, I would have. And you know, and also I

636
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,680
like I went to college in Bingham to New York,

637
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,559
so it was like a medium, small sized city and

638
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,720
I was the big fish in the musical pond of

639
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:37,279
Bingham to New York, and I I kind of knew

640
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:41,279
that I wasn't good enough to go to a big city, okay,

641
00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:43,319
you know, like you like you read about like like

642
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:45,680
Charles Mingus showed up in New York and he started

643
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,359
playing with like world class people the Sect. The first night,

644
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,440
like I got off the bus went to the jam session,

645
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,039
and then Miles Davis asked me to join.

646
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: The band that like you hear stories like that, you.

647
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, And I knew, I kind of knew

648
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,400
I wasn't cool enough or good enough to do that, yeah,

649
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:07,000
you know. And so having a smaller city where I

650
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,599
could kind of grow and learn, and then after a while.

651
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 4: I realized I had. It was one of those plateau moments.

652
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,679
Speaker 2: I realized, like I've done every hundred dollars gig I

653
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,000
can possibly do in this town.

654
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: Yep.

655
00:34:21,079 --> 00:34:24,679
Speaker 2: And I and like Sound Garden and Pearl Jam and

656
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,280
Nirvana are already bands. They're not looking for a new

657
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,239
bass player. No, you know what I mean. And there

658
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,960
were some national acts that would come through and pick

659
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,440
up some guys from Seattle. So I had some friends,

660
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,639
like I had one great bass player I knew played

661
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,480
with G Love and A Special Sauce and some other

662
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,920
Bill Frizel lived up there, so I knew some people

663
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,360
that were kind of in his world. But I was like, Okay,

664
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,719
I'm not ready for that. I'm not right, not necessarily

665
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,840
my world and I love it, but I'm not That's

666
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,960
not what I do. So after a while, I after

667
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:59,280
a after a while, I was okay, I need to

668
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:02,599
I need to go to a bigger place with more

669
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,400
industry and more options and more studios.

670
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 4: So that's when I that's when I chose.

671
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,679
Speaker 2: To move to La.

672
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: Did had you visited La? Where you went?

673
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? And actually, by by the time I was in

674
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,920
my late twenties, I had been to LA to play

675
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:20,679
with a bunch of different bands and had a handful

676
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,280
of friends down here, yeh. And I actually had more

677
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,360
more contacts in professional music in LA than I had

678
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,800
in New York, you know, because some of my buddies

679
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,760
from high school and college were not playing full time,

680
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,679
or they cool band occasionally, or you know, and I

681
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,639
was like, Wow, I have more I have more contacts

682
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:41,400
New York and so. And it was also easier to

683
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:44,800
just drive our car down I five right right right

684
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:48,440
and get to LA, you know it, And it felt

685
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,800
more tangible in a way.

686
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: Do you do you feel like you like when you

687
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,280
got to La? Do you feel like you hit the

688
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:53,920
ground running?

689
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,079
Speaker 2: Uh? I was? I was. I was in a I

690
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:00,960
was in a kind of a lug, a local bar band,

691
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:03,360
and so we would go down to Orange County and

692
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:05,599
find an Irish bar and play every Friday night, and

693
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,079
then we'd find another place in oh Hi for Saturday,

694
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:12,440
and then we'd play in Burbank on Sunday jazz brunch,

695
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:14,760
and then we'd buy somewhere else, you know. Like, so

696
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,400
I was working a lot with this one particular band,

697
00:36:18,519 --> 00:36:20,920
but not It's not like we were in the middle

698
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,599
of this team, right right.

699
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:24,559
Speaker 1: But I guess what I mean was that, did did you?

700
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,440
I mean because I felt like when I got to La,

701
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,280
just because that was when shit was starting to I

702
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,639
guess quote unquote happened for me, even though nothing really happened,

703
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:36,280
but you know, I had just you know, started doing

704
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,800
The Master was a rock cruise, so I had, you know,

705
00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:42,039
I was in with like I met the you know,

706
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:43,719
the bands that were on the cruise that live in

707
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,519
LA and I got to know them and YadA, YadA, YadA.

708
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:48,639
That's why I started hosting the thing a Lucky Strike,

709
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,440
and so I felt like I hit the ground running.

710
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,760
But I'm such a slow runner that it took me

711
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,239
until I joined the Smoking Kills to finally get in

712
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,800
a real band. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I started to

713
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,079
the podcast and all that stuff. But that's kind of

714
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:09,239
what I mean is like, did did you have did

715
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,559
you feel like boom, like all right, I'm here, this

716
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,280
is it, let's roll, or did it take you a

717
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:15,880
little while?

718
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: It took a while. It definitely took two or three

719
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,599
years to get get things to a place where I

720
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,360
was like beginning to get comfortable and I was really

721
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:31,199
like I can and actually now I can get to

722
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,760
how I got into country music When I was my

723
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,480
last couple of years in Seattle and then my first

724
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:43,039
year in LA I was discovering like the band and

725
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,760
Whiskey Town and the ninety seven's I was discovered, and

726
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,400
Grand Parsons and of course the Stones where Grand Parsons

727
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,719
met the Stones, and they did like Sweet Virginia and

728
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,519
tunes like that, like you like, through rock and roll

729
00:38:00,159 --> 00:38:04,159
that was country leaning started making country music sexy and

730
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,880
exciting and relevant to me. Yeah, like when I you know,

731
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,119
like when like as a kid, if I heard Hank Williams,

732
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:12,239
I'd be like, why what? Who is this? Who's this country?

733
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,639
Speaker 1: I think, Look, I think it's It's like I didn't

734
00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:17,800
feel relevant to me right well, I was just saying,

735
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,880
like I think, as a rock fan, sometimes you need

736
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,440
that bridge. And once that bridge is there and you

737
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:25,679
get it exactly, That's what happened with me.

738
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:26,639
Speaker 2: You know.

739
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:30,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had grew up on Willan and Willie and

740
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:33,440
you know, Kenny Rogers and all that shit, but it

741
00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:38,119
wasn't until like I got older and that bridge was connected.

742
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,679
But you know, even like the Black Crows, you wouldn't

743
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,519
think country when you hear the Black Crows, but there's

744
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,639
this influence in there. You know, you can hear it

745
00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:49,719
a little bit, and there's a lot of the music

746
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,119
that I love, a lot of that influence comes from

747
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:54,480
country music. And then you're like, oh, I fucking get it.

748
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:57,360
And then like I just discovered this guy the other

749
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,280
day on Friday, I was in the fucking to get

750
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,880
the new Sebastian Bach record. It was They're out of It,

751
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,639
and I heard this country song like, what the fuck

752
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,639
is this? Hit up the Shazamas? Who the fuck is

753
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:16,159
Sturgil Simpson? And then I listened to and I'm like,

754
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,000
where has this been all my life? You know, it's

755
00:39:20,119 --> 00:39:23,480
just weird anyways, So yeah, so I apologize. I go

756
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:25,400
on tangents every once in a while, which you.

757
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,199
Speaker 2: Know that's okay, no, but no, but you're very right,

758
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,800
like there had to like I slowly put together the bridge.

759
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:36,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, is like all American music affecting all.

760
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:40,159
Speaker 2: Other American music, and you start realizing the line between

761
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,880
country and soul and rock and gospel. And I discovered

762
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,000
guys like Leon Russell was a huge one for me.

763
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,880
Deliman McClinton was a big one. Of course, Ray Charles

764
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,000
with modern sounds and country western, right, you start realizing

765
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:57,760
that if you like, if you start with the Black

766
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,519
Crows and you shift it over ever so subtly, it's

767
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,280
less southern rock and a little country ish, and then

768
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,039
you keep going and then it evolves over to Vince Gill.

769
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

770
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: They can actually play together right too, you know what

771
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:13,199
I mean.

772
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,599
Speaker 1: You know, Skinnard Skinner is the same way.

773
00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: It's like Duds and Skinnard has some really country moments,

774
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:24,000
right And Dire Straits, I mean they're British, it's a

775
00:40:24,039 --> 00:40:27,880
different thing, but like they have songs that are blatantly country, right.

776
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,000
But when I was a kid, I didn't realize that.

777
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:32,119
I just thought it was like Dire Straits rock music.

778
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:35,400
You know, you hear some classic good Mac and it's

779
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,679
like it's their country tune on the record.

780
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 4: But I didn't know that at time anyways.

781
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,199
Speaker 2: But so when I was in LA, I started realizing

782
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,159
that this kind of rootsy country songwriter Bob Dylan and

783
00:40:48,199 --> 00:40:52,639
the band thing is what I loved, and so I

784
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,239
started finding people that were doing that, and there were

785
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:59,039
a couple great, great kind of monthly scenes.

786
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:00,280
Speaker 4: One was called Sweetheart to the.

787
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: Rodeo, named after the famous Birds album, And I started

788
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,039
getting and started playing with those people. And actually one

789
00:41:07,039 --> 00:41:10,920
of the things that really started changing my career is

790
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,920
when I started realizing this kind of country roots rock

791
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:17,920
thing is what I really want to do, you know.

792
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,679
And that related to the Counting Crows, the Wals and

793
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,519
Sheryl Crowe as well as to Dwight Yoakum and Lucien

794
00:41:26,559 --> 00:41:27,920
to Williams, like, I.

795
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 4: Was like, somewhere in this rootsy songwriter world is what

796
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:30,920
I love.

797
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,159
Speaker 2: Some of it has more soul and swagger, some of

798
00:41:34,199 --> 00:41:37,760
it's a little bluesier, some of it's a little more heartland.

799
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:43,039
But this approach to stories and bands is what I'm into.

800
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,679
And so I started less kind of pop gigs and

801
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,000
other eclectic kind of gigs, and I started honing in

802
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:56,480
on the roots rock world. And then actually a pivotal one,

803
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,519
Shooter Jennings was putting together a new band and we

804
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:04,480
had never met, and at there was one at one

805
00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:06,719
point his bass player was kind of getting flaky and

806
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,639
not really working out, and he started saying, hey man,

807
00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:13,119
I need a bass player, and and and two different

808
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:15,000
of his good friends both.

809
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,679
Speaker 4: Said you got to call Ted. Ted's perfect for you.

810
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:18,159
Speaker 2: Wow.

811
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 4: And then one of them called me and was like,

812
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,159
hey man, I just gave your number to Shooter Jennings.

813
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,519
Speaker 1: And I was like, what goes to your head when

814
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:25,960
you hear that?

815
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: I was like, that's awesome. Let's hope it works out,

816
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,519
you know, because I knew that Shooter Jennings the son

817
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:34,960
of Whaleen Jennings lived in LA but I had never

818
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:37,559
met him, played with them, or seen his band or

819
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:38,159
anything like that.

820
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 4: So I was like, that's great, awesome, you know, let's

821
00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:44,559
let's let's hope for the best, you know, And so

822
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:45,880
I did.

823
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 2: Uh and so so two people recommend one one guy.

824
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,519
I played both guys I played with that Shooter knew.

825
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,400
So he called me up and was like, hey man,

826
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,960
we got a rehearsal studio in Hollywood, like Hollywood and Vine, Uh,

827
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:04,559
you want to come down on Wednesday night?

828
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:05,199
Speaker 4: It was that great.

829
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,079
Speaker 2: So I came down and I just kind of started.

830
00:43:07,679 --> 00:43:10,440
I just kind of jumped in and started playing, and

831
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,760
I knew, I knew the guitarist it was. We had

832
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,039
done a bunch of gigs together, and he of course

833
00:43:18,119 --> 00:43:20,440
helped me feel a little more comfortable right away. Shooter

834
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:23,239
was like a really laid back, unassuming kind of guy,

835
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,920
so it's not like it was a high stress scenario,

836
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:31,199
right right. I just I just immediately understood his songwriting style,

837
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,280
and he was throwing some covers at us and some

838
00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:37,119
songs that ended up on his first record the next year.

839
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,840
I loved the drummer Brian keeling was a real kind

840
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,960
of like tight power Kenny Aaronoff kind of drummer. Uh,

841
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,559
and it just immediately felt good. It was really it

842
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:51,360
was one of those great moments when it's like, wow,

843
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,400
it feels like within within eight measures it felt like

844
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:54,800
a band.

845
00:43:55,519 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: Wow.

846
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: And and then and then, uh what Shooter was friends.

847
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 2: With the people who were in the Viper Room, so

848
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,639
he did a monthly set at the Viper Room. Okay,

849
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,239
and I didn't know this at the time, but basically,

850
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,880
while he was trying to put together a band, he

851
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,440
would get new people together and do a different show

852
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:18,239
every month at the Viper Room. Oh wow, mostly the

853
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,639
same songs, but just like new people and see how

854
00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:25,440
they all feel, you know, right. So so then we

855
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:28,360
did one of those, and then it just started feeling

856
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,880
better and better and better, and it was perfect. It

857
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,159
was It was a really kind of a magical time

858
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:39,199
and it was not It was probably within two or

859
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,199
three months after that that we started recording for Actually

860
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:45,559
a cool thing about that moment too, is after I

861
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:51,960
kind of joined, we all went drinking after maybe at

862
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,880
Bordener's one.

863
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:54,519
Speaker 4: Of those places that was right in Aphtle area.

864
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

865
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:58,679
Speaker 4: We're all hanging out shooters like great.

866
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,039
Speaker 2: Now, all we need it is a good looking guy

867
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,840
to play acoustic guitar and saint killer harmonies and then

868
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,000
maybe a pedal steel player and then we're and then

869
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:10,360
we're set. And and I thought, you know, Shooter, it's

870
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,360
your it's your band. You should really do what you want.

871
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,880
But I think we should just be the four of us,

872
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,880
because if we're the four of us, each of us

873
00:45:19,199 --> 00:45:22,559
will we'll be allowed to have more personality and will

874
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:25,519
be like the led Zeppelin of country music if we

875
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:28,679
get part of part of the sound of big more

876
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:32,760
modern country, maybe not ultra super modern current pop country.

877
00:45:33,159 --> 00:45:37,400
When you think part of the sound is a big band, right,

878
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,639
so that everyone plays very safely yep, And then there's

879
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:41,760
a little pedal steel.

880
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 4: And then it leaves. Then the vocal sings again, and

881
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:46,039
then the cargo.

882
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,679
Speaker 2: And then it leaves, and then there's a piano fill

883
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:53,440
like you have so many of these little instruments as textures.

884
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:56,000
But everyone plays very safely.

885
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:56,639
Speaker 4: You know what.

886
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I was.

887
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: And if it's just the four of us, you've got

888
00:46:03,079 --> 00:46:06,480
four bad ass musicians in this band, and all of

889
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:09,360
us can have more personality and the space is what's

890
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,159
going to help us all play a little more and

891
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,320
have more uniqueness, right, And he was like, that's that's

892
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,559
interesting anyway. So he thought about it and the next

893
00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:21,119
week he came back he was like, A ten, I

894
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:22,559
think you're right. I think we're at four piece.

895
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:23,599
Speaker 4: Wow.

896
00:46:23,679 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: And this is what like, this is like why I

897
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,719
wanted to have you on the show is because we

898
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,440
never had these conversations. I've never asked you any questions.

899
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:36,960
I didn't realize that that you weren't just like you know,

900
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:39,480
a hired gun you know, part of the band, but

901
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:42,079
you know, but the hired gun guy that's been in

902
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:44,679
there for forever. I mean, I didn't know that you

903
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,920
were part of the original, the original Shooter band. And

904
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,719
so it's like now that makes it even cooler that

905
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,360
it's it's not just about of hire guns. It's the band.

906
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 4: No, No, it was it was one. And when we started,

907
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,880
it was really it really felt like the band.

908
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:04,519
Speaker 2: It was realy one. Of course, we I mean we

909
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:07,199
all know, we all knew, like it's Shooter's name on

910
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,920
the market, and like I mean and check this one.

911
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,639
Speaker 4: This was a this was a really magical one.

912
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,800
Speaker 2: Uh uh, you know, like We're rehearsing one night and

913
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,599
Shooters like, oh, I'm gonna leave town for a couple

914
00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:21,440
of weeks, so let's skip next Thursday and do the

915
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,559
next week. We're like okay, So we get back together

916
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:25,320
the next week and he's like, I got us a

917
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:32,039
record deal. We're like huh, Like it happens, and he's like, yeah,

918
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:34,000
I flew to Nashville, I had a bunch of meetings,

919
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:35,159
I played a bunch of people are.

920
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:36,559
Speaker 4: Recordings, and I got his record deal.

921
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, you know, well that you know,

922
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:45,000
it's like that's that's that's something that you know his

923
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,079
parents are are whaling and Jesse Culter, Yeah, he grew

924
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,519
up knowing all of these people in the music right now,

925
00:47:53,639 --> 00:47:56,480
if the music wasn't good, he wouldn't have gotten signed.

926
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:58,679
Speaker 1: No, no, exactly exactly.

927
00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: So he so there was like Shooter very often would

928
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,360
never kind of take advantage of the name or the reputation, right,

929
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,840
but that was one of those rare moments when he

930
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,719
was like, you know, these people are going to return

931
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,679
my phone calls. We got something good, let's share it.

932
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,960
And it's like it happened kind of, it kind of

933
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:24,079
happened that fast, and then we did. We did. We

934
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:27,239
did one kind of showcase show at a small cool

935
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,119
bar in Nashville called the Sutler, and we did another

936
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,960
showcase show at kind of a side stage at south

937
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,519
By Southwest where a bunch of the executives from different

938
00:48:36,599 --> 00:48:39,280
labels came to come see us, and they and those

939
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,159
two shows kind of cemented the deal. And of course

940
00:48:42,199 --> 00:48:44,679
I was I was like, you know, I'm just happy

941
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,159
to be there, and I'm part of the band, and

942
00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:49,199
it's my job play my ass off and not say

943
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:54,400
anything offensive. I was, I would just like just just

944
00:48:54,559 --> 00:48:55,760
be supportive.

945
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:55,519
Speaker 5: You know.

946
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 2: Shooter really kind of put all that together, Shooter, and

947
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,159
and I got to know, well, just kind of how

948
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,639
how how how kind of smart and focused he is,

949
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:10,360
Like he really is. He's a soulful friend, very loyal, uh,

950
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:14,519
very creative, you know, in terms of combining all this stuff,

951
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:18,000
all these genres, and his love of nine inch nails

952
00:49:18,039 --> 00:49:20,480
and his knowledge of classic country and his love like

953
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:24,320
it's it's it's uh, it's wonderful, how eclectic his tastes are,

954
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,400
and how how he can be so smart and focused

955
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,840
but also so soulful and instinctive at the same time

956
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,800
mm hmm. And but he really had a kind of

957
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,159
a vision for what it could be and kind of

958
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,960
led the lad let us lead the band wonderfully and

959
00:49:41,039 --> 00:49:46,000
fearlessly into a into a you know, a major Nashville

960
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:47,480
record deal. He was.

961
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,280
Speaker 4: Another thing he did which was really.

962
00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 2: Impressive is he said, I don't want to get the

963
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,199
record deal and then record the record, because then they're

964
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,320
gonna they're going to control it and affect the sound

965
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,760
of it. He's And one of the things he did was,

966
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,519
I want to make this record in l A with

967
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,960
us mm hmm, and then show up with a finished

968
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,199
product and say who wants to put this out?

969
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: Smart?

970
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: Which was which which was great, which was great?

971
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: It was Did that end up happening on uh on

972
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:18,679
later releases?

973
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I believe. I believe Shooter kept artistic control one.

974
00:50:25,079 --> 00:50:28,400
But but then one of the hard things is are

975
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:31,639
I think we did three records for Universal self and

976
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,800
they kind of it's it's I I was on the

977
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,079
band's side, not the business side. So I'll just talk

978
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:39,079
about my perspective.

979
00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's all you should talk Walks.

980
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,519
Speaker 2: That's it felt like it felt like they put less

981
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:48,440
money and less care into each progressive album, they realized

982
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:49,760
it's less commercial.

983
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,159
Speaker 4: And it's and that's that, and that's what.

984
00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard about it from friends, read about

985
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,599
it in autobiographies, and see it about it in like movies.

986
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,920
It's like the closer you get to the label wants,

987
00:51:02,039 --> 00:51:04,239
the more excited they will be about it and the

988
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,440
more money they'll put in. Now, the risk of that

989
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,480
is singing these songs I don't even like, right, or

990
00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:14,440
I'm singing I'm singing these goofball pop tunes or whatever

991
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:15,320
whatever it is, you.

992
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:16,039
Speaker 4: Know what I mean, right.

993
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 2: And the other extreme is Neil Young making trans or

994
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:24,320
his rockabilly album something like that, where it's like yeah,

995
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,960
yeah for the labels, still Neil Young, but we don't

996
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,519
know what to do with it. Right.

997
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,119
Speaker 1: It's like it's like that. It's like that famous line

998
00:51:33,199 --> 00:51:36,320
and uh Eddie and the Cruisers they want on the

999
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,920
dark side. They don't want this when they did. Yeah,

1000
00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:44,519
you know, it's like like how do you how do

1001
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,719
you please them with still keeping your musical integrity?

1002
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, totally, and so so Shooter was able to

1003
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:54,760
keep making and we were all able to keep making

1004
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:58,400
the music we wanted to make but they but the

1005
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,679
but they can't saying, oh, there's this not the magical

1006
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,480
hit on this one.

1007
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 4: We'll do our best.

1008
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 2: And so they would do their best and it would

1009
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,920
kind of do slightly less of the first record, right,

1010
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:13,360
the same thing happened to the third. Uh. And and

1011
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,360
I kind of seeing seeing how that worked. Uh, and

1012
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,599
the and the the the record people and the radio

1013
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:22,239
people being.

1014
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 4: Like, well, we tried.

1015
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 2: I guess we'll just go to Texas radio with the

1016
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,840
next single and national radio. Texas radio is pretty powerful

1017
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,639
and and there are many and actually I now can

1018
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:38,000
go to Texas and and and have for years, partially

1019
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:41,960
because Shooter. That music helped be my introduction into the

1020
00:52:42,599 --> 00:52:44,559
Whalen and Shooter legacy, you know what I mean.

1021
00:52:44,679 --> 00:52:47,159
Speaker 1: Right, So it's it's awesome.

1022
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,199
Speaker 2: But but when the Nashville label said we're going to

1023
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,119
go to Texas radio instead of national radio, that's in

1024
00:52:54,199 --> 00:52:57,079
a way, that's them saying, Okay, this is smaller money

1025
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:58,079
we now carry.

1026
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:07,599
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, how has playing outside of Shooter? Did

1027
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,079
did you think, because like like when somebody leaves a

1028
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:14,760
big band, you know, they playing arenas, they're playing stadiums,

1029
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,519
that all of a sudden they're playing a fucking club,

1030
00:53:17,079 --> 00:53:20,760
you know, it's half full. They don't realize that that

1031
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,119
whole crowd is not going to follow you in there.

1032
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:25,400
They want to see the fucking stones, they don't want

1033
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,079
to see you, you know. And obviously this is on

1034
00:53:29,159 --> 00:53:32,159
a different level. But so when you started doing your

1035
00:53:32,199 --> 00:53:38,519
solo stuff, did you how was the response outside of

1036
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,920
do you kind of know where I'm getting at here?

1037
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:48,639
Speaker 2: And and it's it's and I and first years when

1038
00:53:48,639 --> 00:53:51,760
I was really kind of seriously touring, they own music

1039
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:57,719
outside of shooters, it was it was definitely a shock because, uh,

1040
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,960
you know, all these friends that would come and see

1041
00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:02,920
us play in Dallas and I would hang out with them,

1042
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:06,079
I'd let them all alone. I text them and the

1043
00:54:06,199 --> 00:54:11,719
Facebook messages and and then like three out of the

1044
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,119
ten would come. I was like, but this, but I

1045
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,760
need you now? How could you write me? But but

1046
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,000
I also realized, well, part of what they want is

1047
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:25,000
the whole experience of the big show and the excitement

1048
00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:28,559
and the cool for drinks with the band, and it's

1049
00:54:28,639 --> 00:54:31,960
like everyone ever, everyone's coming at it from a different perspective.

1050
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,880
And so I realized, Okay, there's some some automatic momentum

1051
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,679
I will get from my playing the Shooter, but I

1052
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,599
really do need to just kind of build this up

1053
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,639
and do what I can and not you know, like

1054
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,559
not take advantage of the relationship with Shooter, right, You're

1055
00:54:49,639 --> 00:54:52,519
like Ted Shooters bass player when like when I'm touring

1056
00:54:52,599 --> 00:54:55,760
and stuff like, let figure that out and let it

1057
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,199
be mentioned in the press release, but not be a

1058
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,280
big thing about it, you know, Right.

1059
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 4: So, but and and also and also like you know.

1060
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,800
Speaker 2: My music is there's definitely an over love a lot

1061
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,119
of the same stuff, but our.

1062
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 4: Music is different.

1063
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: And I was like, I was like, okay, where to

1064
00:55:11,519 --> 00:55:14,199
find my own audience, knowing that there's going to be

1065
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,320
some great overlap, but not you know, I'm not not dramatic.

1066
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:22,079
I'm not entitled to like the same clubs and the

1067
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:23,880
same all that stuff, you.

1068
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: Know, right, the same marquis.

1069
00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's it's great. I'm I I love doing

1070
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,000
both and I'm proud doing both. And it's like, I

1071
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:35,719
really do believe if you've got a thousand people in

1072
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:40,480
front of you as opposed to fifteen people in front

1073
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,079
of you, our job is to make music and to

1074
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,920
care about what we're doing and to communicate.

1075
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:46,079
Speaker 4: With people.

1076
00:55:48,199 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: Let's go to let's go to a very important night

1077
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,440
of your life. What do you remember about the night

1078
00:55:55,519 --> 00:56:00,840
you might make Dawson? Okay, great, because Ice told the

1079
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:02,599
story many times, where I don't think I've ever heard

1080
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:03,599
you tell this story.

1081
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, I was playing the troubadour and Mike was

1082
00:56:11,079 --> 00:56:16,239
there in the audience, and the way the truebadoor is

1083
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,119
for those of you who have never been there, it's

1084
00:56:19,199 --> 00:56:22,639
kind of a longer, thin room. But the stage is

1085
00:56:22,679 --> 00:56:25,000
along one side of it, like you don't. It's not

1086
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:27,599
like you walk in at the far side. The stage

1087
00:56:27,639 --> 00:56:30,760
is on one side and then the bar is one

1088
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,880
so there's probably place for like two three hundred people

1089
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:37,920
to stand in the middle. Now, if you walk straight

1090
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:40,599
through the audience, you get to the door that brings

1091
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:44,719
you upstairs to the backstage or the green room rather.

1092
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,199
So I left, and I was going to go to the.

1093
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:50,679
Speaker 4: But I had to walk through the audience to get there.

1094
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,400
There's another kind of catwalky way to go, but I

1095
00:56:54,519 --> 00:56:55,079
wasn't doing that.

1096
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Mike was right there, and maybe I

1097
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:01,639
decide I did to stop and get a drink or

1098
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,920
he recognized me and said hello, So we started talking

1099
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,880
for a few minutes, and of course Mike that great

1100
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,519
deep voice and d and I don't know if he

1101
00:57:10,639 --> 00:57:14,199
mentioned right away that he was in radio, but he

1102
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,760
obviously was a music lover. And we're talking about bands

1103
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,320
and life and the show and no, no, no, d

1104
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:23,599
what's in the set? And then he was he was

1105
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:26,559
with Tyler. He was there was a drummer for the

1106
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:31,920
Smoking Kills, and Tyler obviously said something. But he was

1107
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,159
a much quieter guy. Mike is very outgoing. Yeah, man,

1108
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:38,519
let me tell you a story, you know. And so, uh,

1109
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:40,719
after I'm talking to Mike for a second, I'm like,

1110
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,880
so are you guys in a band? Because I had

1111
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,400
just assumed, you know, half half half of the audience

1112
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:50,000
when guys in bands play is other guys in bands, right,

1113
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,440
you know what I mean? And they were like, I

1114
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:54,480
don't know, but maybe we should be well.

1115
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:56,599
Speaker 1: And the way Mike tells that they had met that.

1116
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 4: Night, I didn't know that. I didn't know that they

1117
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:01,320
just met.

1118
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 2: I assumed they came together, yeah, buddies, because they were

1119
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:06,320
just standing together with a beer in their hand, you know.

1120
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,199
Speaker 4: Uh, so they had just met.

1121
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 2: So anyways, so then after our conversation, they start talking

1122
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:19,079
and they start forming the smoking kills, like, oh I

1123
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:19,800
know a guitar.

1124
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:21,519
Speaker 4: Player, let's do this. Oh I know this bass player

1125
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:22,320
and so's.

1126
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: It was totally awesome that they start forming this band

1127
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:27,920
and it evolves into a great friendship for them. Yeah,

1128
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,199
and then a two years later I end up joining

1129
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:32,880
and working with you with with you guys on on

1130
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:33,960
a great record, you know.

1131
00:58:34,639 --> 00:58:36,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I wasn't part of it yet. I wasn't

1132
00:58:36,719 --> 00:58:37,039
part of it.

1133
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 4: You joined after that record was done.

1134
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, they joined after the record was done, just mostly

1135
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:46,119
because Mike's my best friend and actually guitar player on

1136
00:58:46,239 --> 00:58:49,840
stage and whatever. I don't give a fuck, I'm in

1137
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:50,480
the band.

1138
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:54,199
Speaker 2: You know, no, no, And it worked out great. Your

1139
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,440
Your Your Edition really helped because we did a lot,

1140
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:02,760
you know, because the band originally was just electric guitar, drums, bass,

1141
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,679
and Mike playing acoustic and singing. And then as we're recording,

1142
00:59:07,079 --> 00:59:10,119
we start overdubbing and getting creative with the second electric guitar,

1143
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,840
and we realized we wanted to rock a little harder

1144
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,960
and have a stonesiness on some tunes, and a we

1145
00:59:17,079 --> 00:59:22,079
need barkchords going on another tune, and so that's all

1146
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:24,800
on the record and we needed to find another person.

1147
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,960
And so it was perfect that you were already tight

1148
00:59:28,039 --> 00:59:31,480
and good friends and had a great attitude. Ah, and

1149
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,079
just like learned all those great rhythm parts we got together,

1150
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:36,199
and it just like it just helped it be fuller.

1151
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:40,519
Speaker 4: And and it's it felt more like a band.

1152
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,039
Speaker 1: When did you When did you get the call from

1153
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:46,960
from Dawson about doing the Smoke and Kills?

1154
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 4: Check this out?

1155
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:53,159
Speaker 2: He So, Mike had his own podcast, he probably still does,

1156
00:59:53,719 --> 00:59:55,760
but he was doing it out of the garage.

1157
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 4: And he had had done over one hundred episodes. And

1158
01:00:03,639 --> 01:00:07,480
so we somehow met again a.

1159
01:00:07,559 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 2: Few years after that first meeting, and he had started

1160
01:00:11,679 --> 01:00:14,199
the Smoking Kills and was working with Tyler and Kevin

1161
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,519
and they were doing occasional shows and I didn't know

1162
01:00:17,599 --> 01:00:21,320
about it, and then he called me up.

1163
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,159
Speaker 4: Maybe a friend of mine was a guest on his podcast.

1164
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 2: Okay, friend recommended that I do it next right, And

1165
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:33,119
then later later when I did the podcast, at the

1166
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:34,760
end of it, he's always like, hey, and if you

1167
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,079
have any other friends who are cool and that you recommend,

1168
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:43,159
you know, I'd love to find more people to interview

1169
01:00:43,519 --> 01:00:45,519
who are friends of yours and get and kind of

1170
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:46,639
like spread through.

1171
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:48,079
Speaker 4: The LA scene in that way, you know.

1172
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1173
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 2: He interviewed me.

1174
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 4: Oh no, how it happened. There's a woman named Emily's music.

1175
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,559
Speaker 2: And I produced her record Okay, and she was a

1176
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:03,239
guest the podcast and I was her bass player for

1177
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,360
that day and gotcha. And so he does the interview

1178
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,800
with her and me and our friend the percussionists are

1179
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,719
playing along, and then at the end and EM's like,

1180
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,599
Ted produced my album, and we told some stories, but

1181
01:01:15,679 --> 01:01:19,599
it was basically her interview, and then at the end

1182
01:01:19,639 --> 01:01:21,199
of it, Mike was like, hey, man, will you come

1183
01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:23,920
on the show. It was like, I'd love to you

1184
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,199
start talking about me and my music and Emily's record

1185
01:01:27,239 --> 01:01:29,679
and another record that I was producing, and I started

1186
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,599
just talking about my philosophy of producing. You know. It's like,

1187
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:36,519
my job is to help you make the rest of

1188
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,079
the best record you can make, and you're you're paying

1189
01:01:40,159 --> 01:01:43,440
me for my instincts and my taste. But I don't

1190
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,039
want it to sound like my album. I want it

1191
01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:47,159
to sound like your album. It shouldn't sound like my

1192
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,880
album with you singing, you're the one who's gonna live

1193
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,639
with this, you know what I mean? I can help

1194
01:01:52,679 --> 01:01:56,880
you edit or streamline or go in a direction that's

1195
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,199
going to help, then let's work on that together. It's

1196
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:03,000
it's your it's your baby, and it's my job to

1197
01:02:03,079 --> 01:02:05,239
help you do that, you know what I mean. And

1198
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,679
so I was just saying stuff like that, and he

1199
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,320
was liking it more and more. And then the second

1200
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,119
we ended the podcast, he was like, hey man, will

1201
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:13,960
you produce my record?

1202
01:02:16,119 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 4: Easy because you know, because the interview.

1203
01:02:18,719 --> 01:02:20,719
Speaker 2: Is about me, And he was being a professional and

1204
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:23,679
not saying, oh, well, I have a band too, and

1205
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,960
let me tell you about totally just being a great interviewer.

1206
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,639
And then the second he the second we pressed stop

1207
01:02:31,119 --> 01:02:33,440
for recording, he was like, hey man, let me tell

1208
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,000
you about my band. You got to produce my record.

1209
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:37,679
And so then we kind of hung out and had

1210
01:02:37,679 --> 01:02:40,599
a drink and started talking about it. And that's that's

1211
01:02:40,639 --> 01:02:42,719
the night we started talking about. I was like, great,

1212
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,920
well send me some of your songs and let's get

1213
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,320
together and play me what you got, uh. And they

1214
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,679
had some preliminary demos and stuff like that. Yeah, and

1215
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:55,679
and then I and then I started work. I started

1216
01:02:55,719 --> 01:02:58,519
working with them and doing some rehearsals, and that evolved

1217
01:02:58,559 --> 01:03:00,079
into the producing.

1218
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: The when did you start producing?

1219
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:03,519
Speaker 4: Who was it?

1220
01:03:03,719 --> 01:03:07,159
Speaker 1: Was it yourself? Or can you? Are you able to

1221
01:03:07,199 --> 01:03:10,719
produce yourself? Because a lot of people, because there's a

1222
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,400
lot of people that they think that they don't need

1223
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,760
a producer, but it doesn't help, you know, they being

1224
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:20,719
a producer. Having a producer there is there's a there's

1225
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:22,599
a good reason to have a producer there to tell

1226
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:25,760
you when something's not right, and if you're producing yourself,

1227
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:29,679
you don't have that. Somebody going no, don't do that.

1228
01:03:30,719 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 4: You're right, You're right.

1229
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,519
Speaker 2: It's a hard thing when you're producing yourself because you

1230
01:03:36,679 --> 01:03:40,480
have to be artistically doing what you want right, but

1231
01:03:40,639 --> 01:03:42,400
then you also have to kind of be looking at

1232
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,800
it from the outside and saying how effective is this?

1233
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:45,559
Is this working?

1234
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

1235
01:03:47,199 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I've been I feel like I've

1236
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,760
been good at producing myself because I have had so

1237
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,480
many years of playing in other people's bands and just

1238
01:03:57,239 --> 01:03:58,679
and you know how it is when you haven't when

1239
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:00,760
you're when you're playing with someone and you're like, wow,

1240
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,079
they're working too hard. This woman is trying too hard

1241
01:04:04,119 --> 01:04:08,079
to be a blue singer. She loves Choplin, but she

1242
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:11,599
doesn't sound good doing that. And then every time she

1243
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,000
gets mellower or sweeter or whatever she does better, You're like, oh,

1244
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:18,440
now you're in your comfort zone. Now the whole band

1245
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:21,679
feels better, right, you know what I mean? And you

1246
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:23,800
and and actually that was a really big thing I

1247
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,239
learned in Seattle, and it got more exaggerated when I

1248
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,159
moved to LA And my first year or two in LA,

1249
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:32,159
I was like just playing in nine million bands and people,

1250
01:04:32,199 --> 01:04:35,320
we're getting my phone number, and I would like, I'd

1251
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,719
have to go by h I'd have to go by

1252
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,239
the Roxy and pick up a CD from the guy

1253
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,000
because and then and then I would go home and

1254
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:46,800
learn it. And then two nights later we'd have a

1255
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,159
gig at Molly Malone's, and I was just like getting

1256
01:04:50,239 --> 01:04:54,639
millions of uh not millions, but like dozens of new

1257
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:58,840
acts and new music. And some were focused and rocks,

1258
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,480
some were modern, some were retro somewhere this and that.

1259
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,119
And I very quickly started to notice like it's much

1260
01:05:08,239 --> 01:05:10,559
more about how the whole picture fits together.

1261
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 4: Rather than is it struggling with itself.

1262
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:16,440
Speaker 2: Like one of the one of the funny things that

1263
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,920
I'm sure you saw this is when you've got the

1264
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:23,880
girlfriend who is either a stripper or a waitress.

1265
01:05:25,039 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 4: Or slash out of work actress, yep.

1266
01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 2: And her boyfriend is a musician who has been in

1267
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:35,400
another bigger band and so and and he's now the producer.

1268
01:05:36,119 --> 01:05:38,800
And so they get together and now they're trying to

1269
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,639
make an album and have a band and get signed.

1270
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:46,320
And she's beautiful and talented and he's talented, but he

1271
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,199
wants it to be one kind of a project and

1272
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,079
she wants it to be another kind of a project.

1273
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,480
And so I show up as the bass player, and

1274
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:55,639
I'm kind of torn between which.

1275
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 4: Direction do we go in?

1276
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:58,159
Speaker 1: Right? Right, right?

1277
01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:01,639
Speaker 2: And and I was like, okay, And then it's my

1278
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,280
job to kind of be the bridge as the sideman,

1279
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:09,519
you know what I mean. And then but and and

1280
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:11,440
in some and then and then some In some of

1281
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:13,519
those cases, you stick you stick it out, and then

1282
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:16,039
they break up and you keep working with one of

1283
01:06:16,079 --> 01:06:18,719
the two, and then they can more fully realize the

1284
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:22,679
band they want. The talented guy finds another singer who

1285
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:24,960
really is more in the bullpark with what he wants

1286
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,199
to do music, And now I'm like, oh, this is

1287
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,280
kind of a stone temple pilotsy kind of band with

1288
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,199
maybe a little bit of a bad finger overtone.

1289
01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:36,119
Speaker 4: Or or oh now I'm in her band.

1290
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 2: Oh. She really wanted to be a little more singer

1291
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,079
songwritery than the boyfriend was allowing her to be. She

1292
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:46,360
didn't want to be as rock as he did. So

1293
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,199
I'm like, okay, great, Now, I know I'm a fan

1294
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,519
of the you know, I'm a I'm a fan of

1295
01:06:51,559 --> 01:06:55,119
the Indigo Girls, and I'm a fan of Melissa Ethridge,

1296
01:06:55,239 --> 01:06:59,639
and I know what rocking female singer songwriter music like

1297
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,760
she doing should sound like.

1298
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 4: So I can help her do that, you know what

1299
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:04,280
I mean.

1300
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:06,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look for my.

1301
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 2: Many years as being a bass player before I really

1302
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,440
thought of my in my own records. It was very

1303
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:16,719
much about even if I'm not producing, thinking like a

1304
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:21,599
producer to support and help it become what it wants

1305
01:07:21,679 --> 01:07:25,840
to become. Was a big important thing for me, you

1306
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:32,159
know what I mean. And so I think the fact

1307
01:07:32,199 --> 01:07:34,880
that I waited so long to start really making my records,

1308
01:07:35,519 --> 01:07:37,480
like I didn't start making my own records since I

1309
01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:40,199
was in my early thirties, and I think the formative

1310
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:40,800
years helped.

1311
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:43,039
Speaker 1: I thought you were still in your early thirties.

1312
01:07:43,719 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 2: Oh I'm still so I had. I had fourteen records

1313
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:47,079
in the last six.

1314
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,639
Speaker 1: Weeks, perfect and great, perfect, perfect.

1315
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 2: I do think one of another reason I've never another

1316
01:07:57,079 --> 01:07:59,880
reason I haven't had a producer is because I've spent

1317
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:02,960
so much about in our first five or six years

1318
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,679
with Shooter, where we were touring a lot. I was like,

1319
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:07,960
I just want to make my own music so I

1320
01:08:08,039 --> 01:08:10,039
know what it feels like and I can enjoy doing it,

1321
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:13,440
and it's a departure and I don't have to cram

1322
01:08:13,559 --> 01:08:18,199
all of my ideas into the Shooter Jennings band, you know.

1323
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:20,399
Like I very quickly realized I'm a bigger fan of

1324
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,760
soul music than everybody else in that band at the time.

1325
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,600
So I would come in doing like a Jamie Jamerson

1326
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,800
thing and they would all kind of kind of accept

1327
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,880
it because I was the bass player, but they didn't

1328
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,520
want to play with me and make it a groovy.

1329
01:08:36,199 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 1: Or right right. They didn't want Duck Dunn.

1330
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, And then I realized, oh, I should just do.

1331
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,279
Speaker 2: My soul music influence stuff over here, so that when

1332
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:50,119
I show up and play with Shooter and Lee Roy

1333
01:08:50,159 --> 01:08:52,920
and Brian, I can then kind of just like support

1334
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,720
the whole situation more. I'm not trying to like cram

1335
01:08:56,159 --> 01:08:59,359
I'm not forcing my ideas into the pot, you know, right,

1336
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:02,920
So that was that was that was part of that.

1337
01:09:04,760 --> 01:09:06,399
Speaker 1: Kind of like when I first when I first my

1338
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,199
Ace Frehley looks into the smoke and kills.

1339
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes they work great and sometimes you know, but

1340
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,119
you got to find the right time and a producer

1341
01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:19,239
help you say this is the song to do that,

1342
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,039
not this other one, but right right, And so I

1343
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:26,640
probably I think I started producing about twenty years ago,

1344
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,439
so it was shortly after the shooter time, and I

1345
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,960
was working with a friend of mine and buddy from

1346
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:39,119
Texas named Shi Blakeman, and uh, he was a younger songwriter.

1347
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:41,279
So I was doing some solo shows and he would

1348
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,039
be the opening acts and we would do stuff together.

1349
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,560
And then he started working on a record and he

1350
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,880
didn't like his producer. The producer would make him a

1351
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:52,760
little too kind of like cheesy in Nashville sounding, And

1352
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,039
I was just kind of advising him like a like

1353
01:09:56,119 --> 01:09:59,840
an old like an older brother or cousin, be like, hey,

1354
01:10:00,119 --> 01:10:01,840
you know, you don't be afraid to ask for what

1355
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:04,439
you want. If you do if he's doing this, Play

1356
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,640
him three records you love if you love the Black Crows,

1357
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:10,159
play him the Black Crows, and say I want my

1358
01:10:10,319 --> 01:10:13,279
music to sound more like this. Give him tangible things,

1359
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:17,359
you know, I don't want a big drum machine drum sound.

1360
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,960
I want it to sound like more classic or whatever.

1361
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 4: The analogies were, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1362
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,880
Speaker 2: A couple of these conversations, this producer was not really

1363
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,760
listening to him, and so then we had another conversation,

1364
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,039
and then finally I was like, he's like, Ted, don't

1365
01:10:32,039 --> 01:10:32,720
you realize.

1366
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:34,079
Speaker 4: I don't want your advice. I want you to produce

1367
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:34,560
this record.

1368
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 2: And so that was the first That was the first

1369
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:41,399
production I did for Shi Blakeman, and it was it

1370
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:43,720
was a great ended up being a great experience, and

1371
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,119
actually we ended up bringing in Mark Ford from The

1372
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:46,840
Black Crow.

1373
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 4: To play lead guitar on three or four songs. Oh

1374
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,600
wow yeah yeah, sh I flew out and.

1375
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 2: He had a good budget, and so we put together

1376
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,000
this great all star band of different friends that I had.

1377
01:10:58,159 --> 01:11:03,000
Do you remember Jason Sutter, No, great great drummer, still

1378
01:11:03,039 --> 01:11:05,560
lives in LA but he played with Chris Cornell and.

1379
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:10,159
Speaker 1: Like okay Foreigner, like all we probably crossed paths at

1380
01:11:10,199 --> 01:11:11,279
some point, I'm.

1381
01:11:11,119 --> 01:11:11,520
Speaker 2: Sure you have.

1382
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1383
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 2: Anyway, so he played drums. I brought in this kind

1384
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,760
of all star band of all these great friends of mine. Uh,

1385
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,119
and it was a wonderful experience. And that was And

1386
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,600
the thing is, I hadn't really thought of myself as

1387
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:25,560
being capable of producing, even though I kind of was

1388
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:30,560
right and a good band leader. Yeah, yeah, and always

1389
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,119
had good ideas in terms of like, hey, let's extend

1390
01:11:33,119 --> 01:11:35,399
the outro. Hey, let's make this a double chorus. Hey,

1391
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,640
why don't we start with just acoustic guitar and vocals

1392
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,479
and save the entrance so the other guys for later.

1393
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,479
Like I always loved arranging and and a lot of

1394
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,119
the bands I was in an artist I was working with,

1395
01:11:46,239 --> 01:11:50,319
they trusted my arranging ideas, but I didn't. I didn't

1396
01:11:50,359 --> 01:11:52,119
have the confidence yet to think that that was actually

1397
01:11:52,199 --> 01:11:55,520
kind of a part of And so when Shy finally said,

1398
01:11:56,399 --> 01:11:58,680
just produce this thing, you know exactly what it should

1399
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,199
sound like. You know me, you know the players, You

1400
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:03,760
speak the language of all like you know how to

1401
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:05,680
play really well, so you know the language of music

1402
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,399
theory and can kind of and love American music and

1403
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:11,319
be like, oh, Let's make this one more Gospelly. Let's

1404
01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:13,840
make this one more country, Let's make this one more Tulsa.

1405
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:16,760
Let's make this more of a Texas sweaty bar band thing.

1406
01:12:17,279 --> 01:12:20,279
And then he's like, you know how to how to

1407
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,520
change your playing and instruct other people to do the

1408
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,800
sound you want, So this is gonna be perfect.

1409
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:31,560
Speaker 1: Ted you sound. You sound like you just described your

1410
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:38,920
current album. See how I brought it all back around. Well,

1411
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,079
because you do like you said, like you were just

1412
01:12:42,159 --> 01:12:43,560
talking about, I know how to do this. I do

1413
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,319
know how to do this, and that's kind of what

1414
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:48,800
the album is. It's like, it's not just one straight

1415
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,840
country sound. It's kind of all over the map, but

1416
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:53,079
all in the country vibe.

1417
01:12:54,119 --> 01:12:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, totally, and I really want it.

1418
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,319
Speaker 2: I really love it when albums are eclectic, and of

1419
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:03,880
course this one was shaped around Shy, but the having

1420
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,520
it be eclectic, like like with this new record, I

1421
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,840
really wanted to have some songs that were that strummy

1422
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:13,960
Great Birds, Eagles, California Country, jack Down influence. I wanted

1423
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:17,199
some to be a little more Texas bookie. I wanted

1424
01:13:17,239 --> 01:13:19,319
some to be a little more folky and sing a songwriter,

1425
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,560
acoustic but but uh, but I wanted to retain this

1426
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:27,920
overall California l anis and the sounds that I love

1427
01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:30,640
from living here, you know what I mean.

1428
01:13:31,079 --> 01:13:33,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so some of the songs, like there's a song.

1429
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 2: About it's called High Desert Fever. It's about going out

1430
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:40,079
to Joshua Tree. Ye. I got one called Miracle Mile,

1431
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,800
which is about that section in LA with all the

1432
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,319
museums and back in the day it used to moving

1433
01:13:46,359 --> 01:13:49,239
more bars and cafes, but now it's a different thing.

1434
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

1435
01:13:51,359 --> 01:13:53,199
Speaker 4: And I got songs like just about my.

1436
01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:57,199
Speaker 2: Life, the Ballad of the Troubadour A One Word at

1437
01:13:57,239 --> 01:13:59,760
a Time, which is about the struggle of songwriting and

1438
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,479
figuring out what your song is going to be about.

1439
01:14:03,039 --> 01:14:05,000
Like I realized about two thirds of the way through

1440
01:14:05,039 --> 01:14:09,399
making this record it was becoming this autobiographical Yeah, I

1441
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:12,159
like here, and I was like, you know, let's just

1442
01:14:12,399 --> 01:14:14,079
let's just let it be what it wants to be.

1443
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,039
And so California Sun the song is one of the

1444
01:14:17,119 --> 01:14:20,119
last songs I wrote for it, and it ended up

1445
01:14:20,199 --> 01:14:24,439
being this new centerpiece, you know, to just to to

1446
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,479
kind of sit in the middle of all the other songs.

1447
01:14:27,319 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: You know what, It would have been the perfect closing

1448
01:14:30,199 --> 01:14:33,560
moment on the record, though, just because of the way

1449
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,640
it's been the last last couple of years of the pandemic.

1450
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:40,239
The last line on the record should have been you

1451
01:14:40,319 --> 01:14:44,720
can go to Hell. I'm going to Texas because everybody's

1452
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,000
either getting going to Texas here or Nashville.

1453
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, you know, you're right, a lot of

1454
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:50,960
LA people are moving out.

1455
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:54,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I understand why. I understand.

1456
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough, man, it's tough there. But Dad, you you,

1457
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:02,279
you put together an amazing record. And uh, I'm glad

1458
01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:04,439
that I was able to finally get you on the

1459
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:05,600
show because my.

1460
01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 2: Pleasure and thank you.

1461
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,319
Speaker 4: I'm glad we reconnected again and could do this awesome.

1462
01:15:10,359 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: All right, Oh, just hold on, we're gonna say goodbye

1463
01:15:12,479 --> 01:15:14,720
off the air. I have to hit my outro music

1464
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,640
here just so I can hear it. Oh. I should

1465
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:20,119
probably turn it up so I can hear it. Oh,

1466
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:25,039
I'm gonna start it over one, two, three, four. All right,

1467
01:15:25,159 --> 01:15:28,039
ladies and gentlemen, Ted Russell camp check them out, check

1468
01:15:28,079 --> 01:15:30,000
out your friend your record. California's Honey. Can get it

1469
01:15:30,119 --> 01:15:33,880
anywhere where you get your music. It it's physical product.

1470
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:38,960
As well. I would assume you get CDs. You're froze,

1471
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:44,000
get CDs, vinyl, anything like that, all of it. Feel

1472
01:15:44,039 --> 01:15:47,359
free to talk and it's okay you can talk by it. Yeah,

1473
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:49,479
but CD, I got a.

1474
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:53,680
Speaker 2: Little assumed thing that said questionable internet connection.

1475
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:56,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you've been kind of a little bit. No,

1476
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:58,359
it's all good. It's all good. So you get ten

1477
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:02,119
Russell Camp dot com is your website, that's right. Yeah,

1478
01:16:02,279 --> 01:16:04,880
check that out. You find everything you need know about Ted,

1479
01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:06,439
and check out Smoking Kills.

1480
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:14,359
Speaker 2: Hold on, well, I got it because I got one

1481
01:16:14,399 --> 01:16:14,960
in my hand.

1482
01:16:15,119 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 1: Why not check out Smoking Kills dot com. You can

1483
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:21,920
cant you also Ted out with Shooter Jennings and there

1484
01:16:22,159 --> 01:16:25,560
it is. Look at that. It is beautiful. So yeah,

1485
01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:29,840
check out his new record and follow him everywhere and

1486
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:34,079
we will see you next week. Brian Aurans and John

1487
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:37,159
McCosky talking about this flip book My second favorite band

1488
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:39,920
of all time bar none uh, hosted by Keith Rob

1489
01:16:40,039 --> 01:16:42,680
I'm serious XM. My name is Izzie Presley. I'll be

1490
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:47,199
after Ted Russell Camp. Uh. Something about a cock

1491
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:49,399
Speaker 4: Awesome