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<v Speaker 1>Deep in the peaceful town of Liska, Iowa, lies a

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<v Speaker 1>weathered old house at the end of a tranquil street.

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<v Speaker 1>The surrounding areas boasts a collection of churches, while the

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<v Speaker 1>nearby park gazes upon the local middle school. Although this

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<v Speaker 1>house blends in with the others in the neighborhood, a

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<v Speaker 1>peculiar silence envelops it. The once vibrant structure now stands

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<v Speaker 1>securely sealed as a small sign bearing the words Bliska

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<v Speaker 1>Axe Murder House stands as a solemn reminder of the

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<v Speaker 1>chilling events that once unfolded within its walls.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.

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<v Speaker 1>And Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Warning the following podcasts and material more your audience listener discretion.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you hear the train off in the distance?

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<v Speaker 2>I sure can.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's coming through in the audio,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's this train just going off in the distance.

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<v Speaker 2>It was for your intro, and I was like, I

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<v Speaker 2>hope they can hear it. That's kind of cool, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it was annoying. I'm trying to record the intro.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, So there's this theory in the area where

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<v Speaker 1>we live. When you can hear the train really clearly,

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<v Speaker 1>it means.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to rain rain soon.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, because the theory is that the sound bounces

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<v Speaker 1>off the clouds and like you can hear it a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit easier. So if it's clear skies, the sound

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of dissipates.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, we can hear well. So I'm wondering, are we

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<v Speaker 2>going to get rain?

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<v Speaker 1>There's a chance hopefully we might get rain. We need rain,

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<v Speaker 1>we do living in British Columbia. Our province is on

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<v Speaker 1>fire and Nicole even mentioned a tragic story of a

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen year old wildfire fighter who tragically lost their lives.

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<v Speaker 1>So our condolence is to their family for that that's

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<v Speaker 1>just recently.

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<v Speaker 2>That it's a dangerous job and oh that must just be.

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<v Speaker 2>That's devastating.

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<v Speaker 1>It is, and it seems like every year our province

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<v Speaker 1>is just getting worse and worse with how the fires

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<v Speaker 1>are even other provinces like over in Alberta. It's terrible.

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<v Speaker 1>So if it rains tonight, it's a god sin.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah. So we did get some rain yesterday, right

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<v Speaker 2>and overnight I think a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>We did, which is good, but it also came with

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<v Speaker 1>thunder and lightning.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, which is not good.

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<v Speaker 1>No. What is good though, apparently for us, is we

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<v Speaker 1>got chickens.

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<v Speaker 2>We got chickens.

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<v Speaker 1>So look forward on our social media to seeing some

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<v Speaker 1>chicken posts because we have chickens.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I should actually we should post that on our Instagram. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>in our Facebook, we should. I got a photo. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we have six chickens.

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<v Speaker 1>Now living in a tiny home, just rocking with six

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<v Speaker 1>chickens and two huskies and a black cat.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's their life, living our best life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, with a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't complain. Pretty good actually, but.

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<v Speaker 1>Ye are obsessed with the chickens.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I am Ben has very much so been like,

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<v Speaker 2>don't get attached.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not pets, they are farm animals.

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<v Speaker 2>But oh man, it's hard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say five out of the six I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>attached to, or actually came maybe four out of the six.

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<v Speaker 2>It's in between that there is one that I am

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<v Speaker 2>attached to.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>We the three of them were born on May fourth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, so we star Wars.

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<v Speaker 2>We have named them star Wars names. And there's this

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<v Speaker 2>one little one named Lea, and she's a feisty little

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<v Speaker 2>thing and she's the only one that really lets me

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<v Speaker 2>pick her up, so I'm just smitten.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And the other two Star Wars names Boca ten

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<v Speaker 1>oh yeah and Ahsoka.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So those are the three Star Wars chickens. We can

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<v Speaker 1>still not tell two of the other ones apart, so

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have names yet, not until we can identify them.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I still think they'll probably be Thing one

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<v Speaker 2>and Thing two.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably we've been calling him that. There's blue Thing one

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<v Speaker 1>and Thing two.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, don't get attached to the chickens. Except they all

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<v Speaker 2>have names.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you can name them.

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<v Speaker 2>Good gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to name them soup stock, but you wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>let me. Anyways, we got a very interesting case coming today,

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<v Speaker 1>we sure do. So. This is one that has been

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<v Speaker 1>requested time and time again. So here we are. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the story of the Veliska Axe murders. You ready

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<v Speaker 1>for this one?

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<v Speaker 2>I am. Let's do her.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So today's story begins with a loving family. It

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<v Speaker 1>starts with Josiah B. Moore, who was forty three and

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<v Speaker 1>his wife, Sarah, who was thirty nine. The two of

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<v Speaker 1>them were devoted parents in a vibrant and loving family. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so their family was of course known as the Moors.

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<v Speaker 1>So together they had four children. They had Herman Montgomery,

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<v Speaker 1>who was the oldest at eleven years old, Mary Catherine

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<v Speaker 1>who was ten, Arthur Boyd who was seven, and Paul

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<v Speaker 1>Vernon who was five. The Moors seemed to have absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>everything right. They had a nice home that was filled

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<v Speaker 1>with love and laughter, and they were held in high

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<v Speaker 1>regards within their community. Neighbors and friends just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>looked on and loved it. It was kind of hard not

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<v Speaker 1>to love what you saw within this family and their home. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>I think to me, like the Moors were the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of family that you like, you want to hate them,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can't because they're, like, they're just too perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're envious of that. So you don't like hate them.

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<v Speaker 2>But you like, oh you strive to kind of yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean. Yeah, no, I get that.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's also kind of I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people it's like the grass is greener on the other

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<v Speaker 2>side or whatever, so maybe it's not so good.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. You never know, the grass is generally greener

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<v Speaker 1>on the other side, so always keep that in mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Not greener or sorry, not greener. Yeah, it not is

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<v Speaker 1>it's not. So. This story takes place in the evening

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<v Speaker 1>of June ninth in nineteen twelve. So little ten year

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<v Speaker 1>old Mary Catherine Moore sent out a special invitation. She

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<v Speaker 1>invited eight year old na May Stillinger and Lena Gertrude Stillinger,

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<v Speaker 1>who is twelve years old. Okay, she invited them over

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<v Speaker 1>to come over for a sleep over at their house. Nice,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a little get together thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of miss those sometimes.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean like they were already friends. So it wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>like exactly out of the blue or anything. Yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was just kind of something that they were rolling with

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, hey, come on over for sleepover. So

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<v Speaker 1>they were ready for it. It was gonna be fun.

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<v Speaker 1>They're gonna come over to the Moore's family residence and

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<v Speaker 1>just have a great time with friends. Earlier in the evening,

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<v Speaker 1>the More family, along with the visiting two girls, decided

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<v Speaker 1>to attend the local Presbyterian church together, where they all

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<v Speaker 1>actively participated in a children's day program. Now, this was

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<v Speaker 1>an event that was carefully coordinated by Sarah Moore, the

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<v Speaker 1>mother of the household. Okay, now, I kind of picture

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<v Speaker 1>her as like a Martha Stewart type. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I don't mean that to be an insult. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean more so like she's someone who like welcomes people

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<v Speaker 1>into her home, like you know, there's always fresh baked

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<v Speaker 1>cookies out, Like she's putting together these events for the

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<v Speaker 1>kids at the local church. Just seems like this, like

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<v Speaker 1>picturesque type mother figure.

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<v Speaker 2>The house is probably always clean. Anyone could stop by

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<v Speaker 2>it time. That was our It was our issue was

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<v Speaker 2>like if you don't if we didn't know you were

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<v Speaker 2>coming over, like, don't because our house is a mess.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So anyways, the program at the church finished up

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<v Speaker 1>by nine to thirty pm, after which the More family,

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<v Speaker 1>along with the two Stelling your sisters, took a walk

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<v Speaker 1>back to their house. They strolled down the sidewalk back

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<v Speaker 1>at the moor House, arriving somewhere between nine point fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>and ten pm. So the evening was going great. The

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<v Speaker 1>church event went well. All the children loved it. They

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<v Speaker 1>were having fun playing and just doing their thing. Everything

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<v Speaker 1>was just perfect. Perfect with the evening, perfect with the community.

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<v Speaker 1>Was just perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't like when things are described as perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>No, because what generally when something is perfect, it is

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<v Speaker 1>that grass is greener. On the other side, it is

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<v Speaker 1>not quite.

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<v Speaker 2>So nothing's perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>So in a grim twist of fate, however, this unassuming

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<v Speaker 1>little white house held the seemingly perfect family inside. But

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<v Speaker 1>it became the stage for a brutal act that would

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<v Speaker 1>unfold this.

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<v Speaker 2>Very summer night, Oh my goodness.

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<v Speaker 1>Under the cover of darkness, and sometime shortly after midnight,

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<v Speaker 1>an intruder broke into the Moor home and crept through

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<v Speaker 1>the shadows of the unlit house as everyone slept within

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<v Speaker 1>its walls. Josiah and Sarah Moore were upstairs in the

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<v Speaker 1>bedroom sound asleep, while their four children were in the

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<v Speaker 1>room just down the hallway. The two Stilling her sisters

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<v Speaker 1>were in a guest bedroom on the first floor and

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<v Speaker 1>were the closest to the intruder and would be the

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<v Speaker 1>very first bedroom that they would be the intruder would

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<v Speaker 1>be faced with. So this brings us to the following morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Lord and Kate, people were sleeping over too, right, the.

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<v Speaker 1>Tw Stilling your sisters in the guest bedroom.

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<v Speaker 2>Yesh okay, I hate when shit like that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So upstairs was the mother and father, down the hall

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<v Speaker 1>was the kids, and then downstairs on the first floor

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<v Speaker 1>was the guest bedroom with the two sisters who were.

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<v Speaker 2>Staying over yep okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So as the sun was rising into the sky in

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<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood, the neighbor Mary Peckham, was up at about

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<v Speaker 1>five am hanging laundry on her clothesline. By the time

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<v Speaker 1>seven am rolled around, Mary began to grow a little

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<v Speaker 1>concerned when she noticed that an uncharacteristic thing was occurring

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<v Speaker 1>the neighbors the moors. Their house was still in quiet

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<v Speaker 1>by now the family was typically awake and doing daily chores,

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<v Speaker 1>and their unattended horses even were beginning to stir. So

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<v Speaker 1>she decided to head over to the house and knock

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<v Speaker 1>on the door, but there was no response. So Mary

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<v Speaker 1>knew something wasn't right.

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<v Speaker 2>So she probably got feeling too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, definitely so what she didn't react in reaction. She

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<v Speaker 1>called Josiah's brother Ross to come over to see what

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<v Speaker 1>was going on. So it was about eight thirty am

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<v Speaker 1>that Ross would arrive in using his key his own

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<v Speaker 1>key for the home, he would unlock the front door

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<v Speaker 1>and step inside. Ross made his way through the house

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<v Speaker 1>and starting with the guest bedroom, he found the two

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<v Speaker 1>stelling Youer sisters were brutally murdered in a horrific and

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<v Speaker 1>gory and bloody scene. Proceeding through the house, they would

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<v Speaker 1>find that every single person within the home was killed.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, they were all laying lifeless in bed, their

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<v Speaker 1>bodies brutally bludgeoned in the head beyond recognition. The murder

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<v Speaker 1>weapon was an act.

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<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm yep. So okay. The thing that really gets

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<v Speaker 2>me is, so, say, like, you're having to go to

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<v Speaker 2>someone's house because things are not normal, right yeah, And

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<v Speaker 2>that moment when you're kind of going in, you probably

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<v Speaker 2>are so hopeful, like oh, or making up things in

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<v Speaker 2>your head like oh, I'm sure this is why this

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<v Speaker 2>is happening. And you wouldn't really necessarily go to like

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<v Speaker 2>the super dark place.

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<v Speaker 1>Right yeah, because you're you're not in your comfort zone.

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<v Speaker 1>So those little creeks of a house, those little groans

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<v Speaker 1>and noises in the night. Usually you're familiar with your apartment,

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<v Speaker 1>your house, or wherever you're sleeping, you know the noises.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're in a strange atmosphere, even if it's

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere you've slept before, you don't know the noises yet.

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<v Speaker 1>So that creek, you could think would be oh, that's

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<v Speaker 1>just like the house settling or that might be just

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<v Speaker 1>the cat walking down the hall.

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<v Speaker 2>I more so meant like the brother though, having to

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<v Speaker 2>enter the house.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I see, yeah, enter this.

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<v Speaker 2>And kind of having this feeling of okay, like things

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<v Speaker 2>are going to be okay, but in the back of

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<v Speaker 2>your mind you're maybe wondering, and then coming upon a

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<v Speaker 2>scene like this.

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<v Speaker 1>No yeah that yeah, no no thanks yeah yeah. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>when he did find the whole scene, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>police were quickly notified and investigation did ensue, there was

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of chilling facts about what went on with

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<v Speaker 1>inside this house this night. One of the most chilling

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<v Speaker 1>facts about it actually is they were able to surmise

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<v Speaker 1>that regarding the secrets of murders within the more household,

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<v Speaker 1>they found that the parents had fallen victim to the

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<v Speaker 1>strange assault. First. Okay, so the parents their bedroom was upstairs,

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<v Speaker 1>So what would have to happen Whoever it was who

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<v Speaker 1>entered the home systematically killed each in every occupant. They

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<v Speaker 1>made their way to the second floor, where Josiah and

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah were sleeping and attacked them first.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean that kind of makes sense though, that

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<v Speaker 2>you would want the adults gone first.

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<v Speaker 1>So put it this way, how did they know, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>where the parents were?

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<v Speaker 2>I know, I was wondering that as well.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot to this, not only that how did

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<v Speaker 1>they make it there without being heard?

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<v Speaker 2>But I also I was just going to say, like,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like kids they sleep heavier though often too

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<v Speaker 2>do what you think?

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<v Speaker 1>That's true?

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<v Speaker 2>So maybe they maybe just honestly didn't hear.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is true. Well, as I mentioned, the murder

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<v Speaker 1>weapon that was used in this case was of course

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<v Speaker 1>an axe, as per the title says, and this axe

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<v Speaker 1>was apparently swung at the sleeping victims with such intensity

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<v Speaker 1>that at one point in mid swing, it struck the

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<v Speaker 1>ceiling above the bed where the two slept as the

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<v Speaker 1>weapon rained down on them, leaving a deep gouge in

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<v Speaker 1>the ceiling behind.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh whoa, that is a visual wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So Josiah Moore had endured over thirty brutal strikes from

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<v Speaker 1>the axe before the attacker was finished with him. Seriously,

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<v Speaker 1>thirty whoa, and the target for each strike was the head.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 1>So regardless of the amount of strikes, each and every

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<v Speaker 1>victim in the home would be left completely unrecognizable because

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<v Speaker 1>it was the target of their head. Their face was

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<v Speaker 1>basically left to be a mashed void of just carnage

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<v Speaker 1>left behind from the attack.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, yeah, holy that Okay, first of all, like an

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<v Speaker 2>axe is such such a weapon like of choice, Like

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<v Speaker 2>that's just unbelievable to me that that's what someone chooses.

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<v Speaker 2>And then to literally go down like because I've chopped

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<v Speaker 2>wood before, right, it's freaking hard. I couldn't imagine like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>doing that thirty times to someone. Well, it almost seems

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<v Speaker 2>like that's an overkilling that they have, like a hatred

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<v Speaker 2>towards this person.

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<v Speaker 1>It's there's something else there. I don't know if it's

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<v Speaker 1>hatred towards that person, but a hatred or taking out

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<v Speaker 1>of something, because I mean, you can have some anger

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00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.240
<v Speaker 1>towards someone else that you could be taking out or

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<v Speaker 1>something else.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it could be that you could be thinking

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<v Speaker 2>that's almost a representation of like your parents or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and then taking it out potentially. Right.

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00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>So, after the attack, though was finished on the parents,

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00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>they then backtracked through the house with almost an unearthly

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00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:38.559
<v Speaker 1>familiarity through the home because they knew where the parents were,

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00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.159
<v Speaker 1>and then went to the children next, and then they

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00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:48.039
<v Speaker 1>visited the stilling her sisters. So another little eerie and

305
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.720
<v Speaker 1>bone chilling piece of this puzzle what the investigators were

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00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>able to determine that each victim was found to be

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<v Speaker 1>killed in their sleep. They were all sleeping when killed,

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00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:00.440
<v Speaker 1>including both the parents.

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00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, yes, how does that work?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, no idea, but that axe rained down one by

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<v Speaker 1>one on each person. No one woke up, So there

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<v Speaker 1>is except for one.

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<v Speaker 2>No screams or anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct. So the last room that he would have entered,

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<v Speaker 1>or they would have entered. My apologies contain the stilling

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00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:27.079
<v Speaker 1>your sisters. Lena Stillinger, who was twelve years old, was

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00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:31.000
<v Speaker 1>found to have a potential defensive womb on her arm

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00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:34.599
<v Speaker 1>that was laid in a way that suggested that she

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00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.640
<v Speaker 1>would have potentially been trying to protect herself from the

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00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:41.559
<v Speaker 1>bloodied axe that was being swung down on her as

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00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:42.480
<v Speaker 1>she laid in bed.

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00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:44.559
<v Speaker 2>Wow, so it.

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00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Was her left arm that had a laceration on the

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00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:49.200
<v Speaker 1>forearm area, though it.

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00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Was like covering her face.

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00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.319
<v Speaker 1>Correct, And it was laying in a way that suggests

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00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.799
<v Speaker 1>that she may have been trying to defend herself. Such

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00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.880
<v Speaker 1>how she would have gained the.

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00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, it sure takes a freakin complete monster

330
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<v Speaker 2>to I mean, it's terrible killing anyone, But to go

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<v Speaker 2>about like also killing the kids, like these young kids

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00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:13.480
<v Speaker 2>that really would have posed no threat.

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00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, is just especially okay they're asleep?

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00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like why yeah?

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00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.319
<v Speaker 1>So what's the motive? Is it a vendetta of some sort?

336
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.440
<v Speaker 1>Are you just taking out anger?

337
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.519
<v Speaker 2>If it's a vendetta, like then it should just mostly

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00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.359
<v Speaker 2>be to the parents, You would think, you would. What

339
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:33.720
<v Speaker 2>on earth what the kids have done?

340
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.559
<v Speaker 1>Who knows? So amiss this whole ghastly state of bodies.

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00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:43.599
<v Speaker 1>Another disturbing aspect unfolded as a police meticulously combed through

342
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.640
<v Speaker 1>the residence. The killer had orchestrated a kind of macabre

343
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:52.119
<v Speaker 1>ritual after slaying everyone. So they had covered the faces

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00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:55.839
<v Speaker 1>of the deceased parents with sheets and then also covered

345
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:00.839
<v Speaker 1>the faces of the children with articles of clothing. So

346
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.440
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if it's almost like that the killer didn't

347
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>like looking at it, that's my opinion. But not only that,

348
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.640
<v Speaker 1>every single mirror and every single window throughout the house

349
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.359
<v Speaker 1>was also meticulously covered with cloth and towels.

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00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, so we also this person also didn't like looking at.

351
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:27.599
<v Speaker 1>Themselves maybe, huh. One of the strangest facts about this case,

352
00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>a slab of uncooked bacon weighing approximately two pounds, was

353
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.000
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in a dish towel and found in the stillinger

354
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:41.359
<v Speaker 1>sister's bedroom where they were sleeping. Really, yes, a slab

355
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:47.079
<v Speaker 1>of two pound uncooked bacon wrapped in a towel A

356
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:48.559
<v Speaker 1>little odd for a find.

357
00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but maybe that could have been something they.

358
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Had brought the little girls. Yeah, I highly doubt it.

359
00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:59.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It seems weird that a killer would

360
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:01.119
<v Speaker 2>leap that in one of the bedroom.

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00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Also seems weird that a little girl would just take

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00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:05.960
<v Speaker 1>that over to a friend's house for a sleepover. But

363
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:07.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean, who am I to judge. I've never been

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00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.920
<v Speaker 1>to a little girl's sleepover. So finally, inside the home,

365
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:14.640
<v Speaker 1>police also found a bowl of water that was stained

366
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.640
<v Speaker 1>red with blood. Investigators surmise the murderer had used this

367
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.480
<v Speaker 1>bowl to clean themselves up before leaving the scene of

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00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the heinous crime. So as news of the brutal incidents

369
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:29.319
<v Speaker 1>spread across the town of about two thousand residents, it

370
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.039
<v Speaker 1>was all anyone could talk about. A crowd began to

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00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:37.240
<v Speaker 1>assemble outside the moorhouse, which of course detracted the attention

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00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.279
<v Speaker 1>of many of the investigators on the scene, like such

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00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>as police, corner minister, several doctors, etc. Right, And although

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00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.839
<v Speaker 1>officials cautioned the townspeople against entering the premise whatsoever, their

375
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:56.880
<v Speaker 1>morbid fascination proved absolutely overwhelming, and they began wandering inside the.

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00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Home seriously, and while bodies and stuff were still in there.

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00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Even with the bodies still in there, would just go in. Yes,

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00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.599
<v Speaker 1>there were even actual fuck there were even reports of

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00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:14.799
<v Speaker 1>people handling the murder weapon posing in front of the bodies. What. Yes,

380
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:17.440
<v Speaker 1>this isn't like a museum.

381
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Well I can't even speak, but it's not like an

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00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.519
<v Speaker 2>exit exhibits.

383
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.599
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not. It's a murder scene. And APPROXI the

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00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.759
<v Speaker 1>fuck it's estimated that approximately one hundred individuals to come

385
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.759
<v Speaker 1>to their morbid curiosity and ventured into the home throughout

386
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:32.599
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene.

387
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

388
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.480
<v Speaker 1>And of course it's probably needless to say that they

389
00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:38.559
<v Speaker 1>contaminated it horribly.

390
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes, big time.

391
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah hm hmm.

392
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean I guess like they back then they wouldn't

393
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.240
<v Speaker 2>have had true crime podcasts and stuff that they could

394
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:53.039
<v Speaker 2>listen to. That kind of eases that curiosity. But still,

395
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.599
<v Speaker 2>also I'm confused of why they were even able to

396
00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:57.960
<v Speaker 2>get in there in the first place.

397
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't know exactly why they were

398
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>able to enter the premise. I would assume that authorities

399
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.319
<v Speaker 1>would be deterring people from entering, not only deterring, but

400
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>preventing mm hmm. But it seems that they just were

401
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.319
<v Speaker 1>able to enter anyways. Maybe police were not caring too much.

402
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Maybe police were overwhelmed.

403
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, I guess it's a really it was a

404
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.839
<v Speaker 2>small town. Yeah, they probably had never dealt with anything

405
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:24.599
<v Speaker 2>like this before.

406
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.519
<v Speaker 1>No, they probably didn't have many police officers on scene.

407
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they only had two officers there. Maybe two officers

408
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:33.440
<v Speaker 1>are the ones trying to take care of this, and

409
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>people are just entering willy nilly as the officers have

410
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:36.720
<v Speaker 1>their back turned.

411
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.079
<v Speaker 2>Jeez. Almost probably, Oh, I know these people like kind

412
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:41.680
<v Speaker 2>of you know.

413
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:44.880
<v Speaker 1>There was also a report that I found that one

414
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:47.920
<v Speaker 1>of the towns people even seized a fragment of Josiah's

415
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:51.559
<v Speaker 1>skull as a macob keepsake. Wow.

416
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that just seems mind blowing to me. Whoa like

417
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.359
<v Speaker 2>almost really more for a bit? Well, yeah, that they

418
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.240
<v Speaker 2>would just want to go in there and touch the

419
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.759
<v Speaker 2>murder weapon and keep souvenirs like what.

420
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:12.359
<v Speaker 1>The Yeah, So, of course, the search for the culprit

421
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:15.599
<v Speaker 1>behind the murder that would of course become infamously known

422
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.119
<v Speaker 1>as the Vliska Axe murders proved to be an arduous

423
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:22.480
<v Speaker 1>task for the authorities, who found themselves alarmingly short on

424
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.839
<v Speaker 1>leads and dealing with a what's the word, I'm looking

425
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.200
<v Speaker 1>for crime scene? Contaminated crime scene? There we go.

426
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:30.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

427
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:35.119
<v Speaker 1>So, despite making apparently like a half hearted attempt to

428
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>scour the town is words like kind of a description

429
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:41.279
<v Speaker 1>that I've been seeing, so not really putting full effort

430
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.720
<v Speaker 1>into it, really searched through the town and surrounding countryside.

431
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Most officials believe that the killer had actually managed to

432
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 1>elude capture, mostly due to the substantial five hour head start.

433
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, so.

434
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Kind of the murder occurred in the middle of the night. Yep,

435
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.319
<v Speaker 1>took off out of town. Police are five hours by behind.

436
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.400
<v Speaker 2>He's already gone god knows where.

437
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:02.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

438
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

439
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Some bloodhounds though, we're brought in as an attempt to

440
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.039
<v Speaker 1>aid the search. But because of all the towns people

441
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>treading all over the crime scene, it was absolutely impossible

442
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.160
<v Speaker 1>for the dogs to get a scent on the culprit,

443
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 1>let alone a scent trail leading out so whether or

444
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>not it's from a contaminated crime scene or not, authorities

445
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 1>were left with little snow evidence pointing towards who could

446
00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:32.319
<v Speaker 1>have done this horrendous crime. Several suspects did emerge over time,

447
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:38.799
<v Speaker 1>but none of them yielded any substantial results. So I

448
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:40.960
<v Speaker 1>do have a list of suspects and some theories here

449
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 1>that we're going to go over in a second.

450
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, and I'm assuming a lot because it seemed like

451
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:51.240
<v Speaker 2>this person may have known them potentially, which could also

452
00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:54.519
<v Speaker 2>have been a reason why they didn't scream, because they

453
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>could have just been like waking up or whatever and

454
00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.880
<v Speaker 2>then seeing someone they know, which would have kind of

455
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 2>it would have made them not scream quite as quickly.

456
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>But it was surmised everyone was killed in their sleeps.

457
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.480
<v Speaker 1>They weren't breaking right right.

458
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I don't even quite understand how they would

459
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:14.960
<v Speaker 2>have done that when people were sleeping in the same bed.

460
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I don't understand it either.

461
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Huh interesting, Yeah, I mean he he, she whatever, because

462
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:24.559
<v Speaker 2>we don't don't know.

463
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:25.720
<v Speaker 1>No, they.

464
00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:31.480
<v Speaker 2>They wouldn't have been able to put this axe down

465
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 2>on someone thirty times and then move on to the

466
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:36.160
<v Speaker 2>next person. I feel like they would have had to

467
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:39.960
<v Speaker 2>kill one swing to the man, then the woman, yeah,

468
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:43.279
<v Speaker 2>and then go back and like yeah, go to town or.

469
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.599
<v Speaker 1>Unless there was one one swing on the mother, Dennis,

470
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:50.920
<v Speaker 1>swing on the father repeated thirty times and then back

471
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 1>to the mother or who knows, but yeah, there would

472
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.400
<v Speaker 1>have been mixing and matching of some sort.

473
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:56.000
<v Speaker 2>Hm.

474
00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:01.759
<v Speaker 1>So anyways, onto the individual, the suspects, and the theories.

475
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 1>You ready for this. So the first individual who was

476
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>under scrutiny was a man by the name of Frank Jones.

477
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.519
<v Speaker 1>He was a local businessman who had been engaged in

478
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 1>a competitive rivalry with Josiah is a nice way, we'll

479
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.799
<v Speaker 1>say it here. So Josiah had spent seven years working

480
00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:24.720
<v Speaker 1>for Frank Jones in the farm equipment sales industry before

481
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Josiah left to establish his own competing company. Oh okay,

482
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:34.119
<v Speaker 1>So rumors circulated that Josiah had engaged in an affair

483
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:39.400
<v Speaker 1>with Frank's daughter in law, but these reports were kind

484
00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:45.680
<v Speaker 1>of unsubstantiated. So, however, some townspeople maintained that an animosity

485
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.480
<v Speaker 1>grew between Moore and the Jones families, although no one

486
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 1>would admit that it had escalated or anything to the

487
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:56.720
<v Speaker 1>point of murder specifically, and that's kind of where that lies.

488
00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.839
<v Speaker 1>It was specific, it was just speculation on the potential

489
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:05.079
<v Speaker 1>of Frank Jones because of a feud between the two families.

490
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean it makes sense, I guess in this

491
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.160
<v Speaker 2>where he doesn't want competition, right, but that does seem

492
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:13.039
<v Speaker 2>like that's kind of go on next level here to

493
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.119
<v Speaker 2>go and murder them own people, definitely with an axe

494
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.119
<v Speaker 2>fords sakes.

495
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.039
<v Speaker 1>But especially like it's not only competition. But you look

496
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:24.079
<v Speaker 1>at it this way. If Frank did teach Josiah everything

497
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:28.759
<v Speaker 1>he knew or even gave resources to where you like

498
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.319
<v Speaker 1>where you purchase the farm equipment to resell it, so

499
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:34.960
<v Speaker 1>your your dealers and everything, and then Josiah leaves and

500
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:39.119
<v Speaker 1>uses all that information against him, Well, now his family

501
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 1>is probably being like losing money because he taught someone

502
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.200
<v Speaker 1>else and he's using that in leverage against So it's

503
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:49.240
<v Speaker 1>kind of like this vicious like something that's going to

504
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.160
<v Speaker 1>eat you up inside, like how could I have taught

505
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.160
<v Speaker 1>him this? And how could he take this and do

506
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 1>this to me?

507
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Like probably a feeling of he was stabbed in the

508
00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:57.880
<v Speaker 2>back exactly.

509
00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So now I don't know this specif the relationship

510
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:06.640
<v Speaker 1>between the two and how like their business life went.

511
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if Frank did teach him a shit

512
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.359
<v Speaker 1>ton or anything, but that is a potential way of

513
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:12.359
<v Speaker 1>how it could have gone.

514
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense, but not necessarily

515
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.480
<v Speaker 2>to the extent of the crime.

516
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:24.160
<v Speaker 1>No. So, a second suspect, appearing far more promising, even

517
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:29.079
<v Speaker 1>confessed to the murders. Oh wow, albeit later retracted the confession,

518
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 1>claiming police coercion.

519
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:34.359
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well we've heard of.

520
00:28:34.279 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 1>That before, yep. So the man is Reverend Lynn George

521
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Jacqueline Kelly. So, Reverend George is an English immigrant and

522
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:49.720
<v Speaker 1>traveling minister, self ordained in fact actually, who had a

523
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:55.440
<v Speaker 1>history of deviant sexual behavior and mental issues. They emerged

524
00:28:55.480 --> 00:29:00.480
<v Speaker 1>as a person of interest specifically because they're history.

525
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

526
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:06.720
<v Speaker 1>So George openly admitted to being present in Valliska, the

527
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.640
<v Speaker 1>town on the night of the axe murders, and acknowledged

528
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:16.359
<v Speaker 1>his early morning departure. So, while his small stature and

529
00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:19.839
<v Speaker 1>timid demeanor led some to doubt his involvement, there were

530
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.359
<v Speaker 1>certain factors that police considered compelling in establishing him as

531
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:29.480
<v Speaker 1>a prime candidate. So George was left handed a conclusion

532
00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.559
<v Speaker 1>drawn from blood spatter analysis indicated that the perpetrators shared

533
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:40.119
<v Speaker 1>this trait. They were also left handed, okay. Additionally, George

534
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:43.480
<v Speaker 1>had had a known connection to the More family, as

535
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:48.599
<v Speaker 1>many had witnessed him apparently observing the family during church

536
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>services and apparently as well while they were out doing

537
00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:59.359
<v Speaker 1>their daily lives around town. Furthermore, a nearby dry cleaner

538
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:03.279
<v Speaker 1>had received blood stained garments from George a few days

539
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:04.559
<v Speaker 1>after the murder.

540
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Whoa.

541
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 1>It was reported that he even approached the police masquerading

542
00:30:10.359 --> 00:30:16.240
<v Speaker 1>as a Scotland yard officer, requesting access to the crime scene.

543
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but those clothes I feel like would.

544
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Be drenched I think so as well, not.

545
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 2>Just like some blood splatter on there.

546
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I couldn't find any more information on that

547
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of dry cleaning incident, how much blood or anything.

548
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.359
<v Speaker 1>I have a feeling, well, I don't know if the

549
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.039
<v Speaker 1>clothes were actually washed, you know, I'm not too sure

550
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:38.319
<v Speaker 1>what kind of evidence would there be. It would just

551
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 1>be really hearsay.

552
00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I also just feel like whoever did this

553
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:44.839
<v Speaker 2>would discard of their clothes and not bring them to

554
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:46.640
<v Speaker 2>the dry cleaner, you know.

555
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean this is early nineteen hundreds though, too, It's

556
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:52.480
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twelve. Yeah, did I just say early nineteen hundreds?

557
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Ugh, you would just throw them in the garbage.

558
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:01.319
<v Speaker 1>I think maybe, I mean hard to say. Yeah, you're

559
00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.559
<v Speaker 1>kind of talking like farm Life nineteen twelve here, right,

560
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 1>a little bit different.

561
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:06.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you could just be like, oh, I had a

562
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>murder or not murder, but I had to put down

563
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:11.160
<v Speaker 2>or kill some cows or something.

564
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh I just had a murder. Now I need my

565
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:17.960
<v Speaker 1>shit wash. He's real casual about it. So, during a

566
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:24.200
<v Speaker 1>prolonged interrogation with George Kelly, he eventually signed a detailed

567
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>confession outlining his involvement in the crime. However, it was

568
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:35.559
<v Speaker 1>of course redacted in court. A jury declined to indict er, sorry,

569
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>indict him based on any available evidence, because well there

570
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.440
<v Speaker 1>was none. So he was acquitted on all charges after

571
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.319
<v Speaker 1>two trials, and the mystery of the Vliska axe murder

572
00:31:46.599 --> 00:31:47.720
<v Speaker 1>persistent persisted.

573
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, I don't know, Okay, let's keep going here.

574
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Another theory implicated Senator Jones, who allegedly hired a man

575
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:03.400
<v Speaker 1>by the name of William quote Blackie Mansfield to carry

576
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:07.680
<v Speaker 1>out the murders. So Mansfield, I'll call Mansfield by his

577
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 1>last name, suspected of being a cocaine indicted serial killer.

578
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh geez, I've been linked to similar acts murders in

579
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Colorado Springs and other locations. Detective James Newton Wilkins believed

580
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Mansfield was responsible for various killings due to the striking

581
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:31.240
<v Speaker 1>similarities in their execution. Now, despite some compelling evidence, Manfield's alibi,

582
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:35.160
<v Speaker 1>supported by payroll records, placed him in Illinois at the

583
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.519
<v Speaker 1>time of Vliska murders. Ultimately, Mansfield was released due to

584
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:41.079
<v Speaker 1>insufficient evidence.

585
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Okay, shit, because what I was thinking is that I

586
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:47.319
<v Speaker 2>was going to ask if there had been kind of

587
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:52.480
<v Speaker 2>similar other murders like this. I don't know, because it

588
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.200
<v Speaker 2>doesn't seem like this would have been someone's necessarily first time.

589
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.880
<v Speaker 2>But also, do you know why the senator was it?

590
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:02.000
<v Speaker 2>The senator would have hired a hit man?

591
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:04.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm not too sure.

592
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

593
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.880
<v Speaker 1>I didn't really dive too deep into it because it

594
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 1>was kind of like, well, it's like a falsified or

595
00:33:11.319 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 1>a proven false theory, So I was like, eh, but.

596
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:16.720
<v Speaker 2>It could it could make sense that this was a

597
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.319
<v Speaker 2>hit man too, Like not saying that that it's that,

598
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:22.160
<v Speaker 2>but it could be someone else or something.

599
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:24.079
<v Speaker 1>But you still need a motive. So if it is

600
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 1>a hit man of some sort, why.

601
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:28.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, it could have been that other business owner who

602
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:29.599
<v Speaker 2>hired a hit man.

603
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Maybe Frank, Yeah, possibly possible. I mean, there are a

604
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 1>lot of theories out there basically on who could have

605
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:41.240
<v Speaker 1>been like the true killer behind this. There is another one,

606
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.400
<v Speaker 1>for example, Henry Lee Moore, no relation to more family.

607
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.599
<v Speaker 1>He was another acts wielding serial killer that became a

608
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:52.720
<v Speaker 1>person of interest due to resemblance in the crimes, but

609
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:57.880
<v Speaker 1>again there's no real evidence for it. Another is Sam Moyer,

610
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:02.839
<v Speaker 1>who's Josiah's other in law. He was raised in suspicion

611
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:08.880
<v Speaker 1>due to reported threats against Josiah's life. However, through investigation

612
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 1>later they cleared him of any involvement. Additionally, Paul Mueller,

613
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>who's an immigrant, is believed to be connected to a

614
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:22.039
<v Speaker 1>series of murders across the United States, including this as

615
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:25.719
<v Speaker 1>murder case, so he was identified as a possible suspect

616
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:29.840
<v Speaker 1>by two authors Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James in

617
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 1>their book The Man from the Train. I did not

618
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.400
<v Speaker 1>get a chance to read the book. I so want

619
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.960
<v Speaker 1>to now, but unfortunately, none of these theories, including this

620
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.320
<v Speaker 1>one from the book has any substantial evidence to really

621
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>bring anything forward, to prove anything and show any individual

622
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:49.400
<v Speaker 1>to be the one responsible.

623
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.400
<v Speaker 2>So they just have basically no one pretty much, and

624
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean so much time has passed. This is just

625
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:00.679
<v Speaker 2>probably it would be a freaking miracle if this ever

626
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:01.360
<v Speaker 2>got solved.

627
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:06.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you would probably need physical evidence with like a

628
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 1>diary of someone writing it back in the day or

629
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.480
<v Speaker 1>something like that. You know, where someone finds like their

630
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 1>great grandpa's I don't know, trunk of things from back

631
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 1>in the day on the farm and inside there's a

632
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 1>diary of how he describes this taking place and he

633
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:24.800
<v Speaker 1>was the one. Things like that, you.

634
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Know, Yeah, yeah, which I mean could potentially happen. I

635
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.079
<v Speaker 2>guess there is.

636
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Ever there is, but it's yeah, the chances are pretty

637
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>slim basically.

638
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.199
<v Speaker 2>And to be honest, none of those theories really stood

639
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:39.639
<v Speaker 2>out to me that that much.

640
00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:43.199
<v Speaker 1>No, not so much, which sucks. The one reverend is

641
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:47.480
<v Speaker 1>pretty much the one with the most substance to it.

642
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but why, I mean, yeah, all of them is.

643
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:54.679
<v Speaker 1>Kind of well, why that individual is one of the

644
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:59.079
<v Speaker 1>few out of this case where it's they have history,

645
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.280
<v Speaker 1>They have a history, They were in town and they

646
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 1>were seen actually looking at the watching or whatever, the

647
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:11.840
<v Speaker 1>meror family, and then I mean it was coerced, but

648
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>there was a confession, but it was redacted. So that

649
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:18.960
<v Speaker 1>is the one that's the most compelling as far as

650
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:24.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm concerned. Yeah, not saying it's yeah, evidential, you.

651
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Know, but I still think it was some sort of

652
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.000
<v Speaker 2>hit man. That's sort of my thought. But I don't

653
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:31.559
<v Speaker 2>know who necessarily hired.

654
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:35.199
<v Speaker 1>It's possible, and I mean, like over time, like this

655
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.239
<v Speaker 1>is a case that's over one hundred years old, so

656
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.880
<v Speaker 1>it basically just fizzled out, grew cold, and there's not

657
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:45.760
<v Speaker 1>really anything anyone can bring forward for the case. The

658
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.199
<v Speaker 1>murder house, as the Moorhouse, which is now called the

659
00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:53.599
<v Speaker 1>feliska Axe Murder House, was basically just left abandoned. Its

660
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:56.760
<v Speaker 1>doors were left tightly sealed. No attempts were made to

661
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:01.480
<v Speaker 1>sell the property, and the original layout remained touched. Today,

662
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the house stands as a solemn tourist attraction, nestled at

663
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.280
<v Speaker 1>the end of the Tranquil Street while life carries on

664
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:07.880
<v Speaker 1>around it.

665
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Can you actually go in the house now, I wonder

666
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you can? Really?

667
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a tourist attraction.

668
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

669
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, though that story maybe lost to history. The Walliska

670
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:21.280
<v Speaker 1>House itself is more than just a tourist attraction, though

671
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 1>for those who are curious and intrigued. In this case,

672
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:26.960
<v Speaker 1>it's not the end of it. It has become a

673
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:28.639
<v Speaker 1>paranormal hotspot.

674
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Really, it has, not surprising.

675
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so many people travel from around the world to

676
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>visit this site in hopes of not only you know,

677
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:45.360
<v Speaker 1>visiting the axe murder House of Alisca, but potentially to

678
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:46.480
<v Speaker 1>see some ghosts.

679
00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

680
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:51.119
<v Speaker 1>Some are actually even granted the opportunity to perform paranormal

681
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:54.360
<v Speaker 1>investigations after hours, which is pretty dope. I'd love to

682
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:58.280
<v Speaker 1>go there and yeah no, yeah no, yeah no, yeah no, Okay.

683
00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:59.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean i'd go there, but I don't know

684
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:01.639
<v Speaker 2>if I want to be trying to play around with that.

685
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I oh, yeah, that's terrifying.

686
00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, the spirits that are said to reside within

687
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of vary depending on who you're talking to or

688
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:14.960
<v Speaker 1>articles you read or TV shows you watch or whatever. Right,

689
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 1>but typically it's a combination of the following victims of

690
00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.719
<v Speaker 1>the murder, the person who committed the murders, and various

691
00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:24.559
<v Speaker 1>dark and malicious spirits.

692
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:25.280
<v Speaker 2>Oka.

693
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Needless to say, though, this story is one of those

694
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.480
<v Speaker 1>more famous and well known cases in the United States,

695
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:36.000
<v Speaker 1>And of course it's kind of understandable why it's very

696
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.599
<v Speaker 1>gruesome and it's kind of growing more and more to

697
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.159
<v Speaker 1>this day because it's evolved into this paranormal story.

698
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I have.

699
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:44.719
<v Speaker 1>A feeling that it's going to be one of these

700
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:48.840
<v Speaker 1>more famous cases for a long time to come.

701
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Well. Yeah, and it's just really too bad though, Like

702
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:55.360
<v Speaker 2>the whole family just got taken out, and then it

703
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 2>was the night of a sleepover as well, Like, oh,

704
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:02.400
<v Speaker 2>I hate events like that. People, you know, you're really

705
00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:08.320
<v Speaker 2>really just the wrong time. Gosh. Yeah, like those parents

706
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 2>are they I imagine they you know, gosh, like why

707
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:14.840
<v Speaker 2>did I let them go sleep over? Right? And they

708
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:18.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't do anything wrong, like nothing wrong, but it just

709
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:21.199
<v Speaker 2>gosh like could something have come up where like they

710
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:23.159
<v Speaker 2>couldn't end up going or whatever? Right?

711
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Oh gosh, Well, I mean life is like that, right,

712
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:29.760
<v Speaker 1>one decision can lead to something completely different, whether it's

713
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:32.639
<v Speaker 1>good or bad, and it could be years later that

714
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:34.960
<v Speaker 1>that one decision makes an impact.

715
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally.

716
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:40.199
<v Speaker 1>For example, if you're at a Starbucks, Okay, just bear

717
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:42.320
<v Speaker 1>with me here, You're at a Starbucks. You're waiting in

718
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.719
<v Speaker 1>line for the coffee. The line's rather long, and you

719
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:46.960
<v Speaker 1>look outside and you see a coffee shop across the street,

720
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:49.199
<v Speaker 1>one that's just opened up, a little local one. There's

721
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 1>no one really there. Well, do you wait in line

722
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.239
<v Speaker 1>for your Starbucks coffee that you know you like, that

723
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:55.920
<v Speaker 1>you get every day, or do you cross the street

724
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:58.599
<v Speaker 1>and go to this little unknown one and roll the

725
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:01.480
<v Speaker 1>dice and see if it's good, just shop or not? Okay,

726
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:04.239
<v Speaker 1>you decide not to go over the coffee shop. You're

727
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:05.920
<v Speaker 1>just gonna wait in line and keep doing your thing.

728
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.039
<v Speaker 1>And that's exactly what happens. You wait in line, get

729
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.079
<v Speaker 1>your coffee, and you go into work with your day,

730
00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:12.800
<v Speaker 1>and your day just continues as it normally does. However,

731
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.039
<v Speaker 1>in the event that you do cross the street and

732
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:18.440
<v Speaker 1>you go to this coffee shop, you find out that

733
00:40:18.519 --> 00:40:23.400
<v Speaker 1>it's better than Starbucks. You love it, Okay, so you

734
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:26.480
<v Speaker 1>start going there instead. Say, it's just as popular as

735
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Starbucks in a few months, right, so it doesn't matter

736
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:31.280
<v Speaker 1>which one you go to anymore, But you like this one.

737
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna stick it out. You love it and support local.

738
00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:36.519
<v Speaker 1>It's a locally owned one. All of a sudden three

739
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 1>years later, Hey, someone starts working there that you kind

740
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:42.599
<v Speaker 1>of like, you start talking with them, you start flirting

741
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.039
<v Speaker 1>with them. All of a sudden, oh my god, you

742
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.559
<v Speaker 1>start dating with them, and oh my god, you're married

743
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.320
<v Speaker 1>and you're having kids all because guess what, you cross

744
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:50.800
<v Speaker 1>the fucking street.

745
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:54.400
<v Speaker 2>And well, honestly, so many things in a person's life,

746
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.119
<v Speaker 2>it can go that way, Yeah, where you're like, wow,

747
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.599
<v Speaker 2>if I just change this or or whatever.

748
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:03.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you can't look back and say, well, what if,

749
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:04.599
<v Speaker 1>what if? Kudoshit?

750
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:04.840
<v Speaker 2>What?

751
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:05.119
<v Speaker 1>Like?

752
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:06.960
<v Speaker 2>No, no, you can't.

753
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it is what it is, And maybe it's

754
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.800
<v Speaker 1>like that for a reason.

755
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, gosh, it sure just doesn't seem like

756
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that family deserve this. It's like I almost feel like

757
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.800
<v Speaker 2>I wish I could know more, like what on earth?

758
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Because it also seemed like the person who was doing

759
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:24.719
<v Speaker 2>it could potentially have known the house and known them, which.

760
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:29.119
<v Speaker 1>It's potential really fucked. Or what if and bear with

761
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:33.039
<v Speaker 1>me here, Devil's advocate, what if, like you said, kids

762
00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:35.639
<v Speaker 1>sleep a little heavier, what if they know Okay, I

763
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:37.800
<v Speaker 1>need to take out the parents first, because parents are

764
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:40.159
<v Speaker 1>going to probably wake up, but they're the most likely to,

765
00:41:40.599 --> 00:41:42.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, in one on one I'll have a harder

766
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:44.559
<v Speaker 1>time with. So I need to take them out first.

767
00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:47.039
<v Speaker 1>So they go in the house, they're creeping around, they

768
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:50.519
<v Speaker 1>peek in the bedroom. Yeah, kids go to the next one.

769
00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah that's kids. Oh, here's the adults, because.

770
00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, like parents are always peaking in kids' bedrooms

771
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:58.119
<v Speaker 2>to kind of make sure they're asleep and stuff, right,

772
00:41:58.159 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 2>So kids, I feel like, are used to that sort

773
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.199
<v Speaker 2>of thing.

774
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Or what if the person was scoping out the

775
00:42:03.559 --> 00:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>house and they saw the parents in the window when

776
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>they were going to sleep and they just waited an

777
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.280
<v Speaker 1>hour after they went to sleep or whatever.

778
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 2>M h Yeah, wow, just brutal.

779
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So that's the story of the Vliska X murders.

780
00:42:18.199 --> 00:42:23.000
<v Speaker 1>It was a very interesting case, very interesting case. Thank

781
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:25.440
<v Speaker 1>you for those who recommended it. Yeah, I think we

782
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 1>had probably a couple dozen people recommended to us over

783
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:30.920
<v Speaker 1>the course of the last year at least.

784
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.840
<v Speaker 2>So well, I've definitely heard of this case, mostly the title,

785
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I think, probably from just recommendations, but I've never like

786
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 2>listened to any podcasts or read up on it at all.

787
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 2>So well, I mean, I just freaking hate these unsolved ones.

788
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.880
<v Speaker 1>So yeah. Well, I mean there's a lot out there.

789
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:52.079
<v Speaker 1>I consider how many murders crimes all occur, I guarantee

790
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:55.000
<v Speaker 1>you it's a small fraction that actually get solved.

791
00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:57.559
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it has to be at least half.

792
00:42:58.239 --> 00:42:58.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so.

793
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Really, Hey, I don't think so. I wonder what the

794
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.840
<v Speaker 2>stats are on that. I would feel like it would

795
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.239
<v Speaker 2>be at least half. But yeah, maybe not. It should be.

796
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:09.360
<v Speaker 2>For the love of God, don't go murder people.

797
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:10.679
<v Speaker 1>No, don't.

798
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, because I feel like it's got it. I

799
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:14.920
<v Speaker 2>feel like more gets solved than not.

800
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know.

801
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, that's that's a disturbing way to end this podcast. Wow.

802
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Sorry should I Should I not have said that?

803
00:43:26.559 --> 00:43:28.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm going to look that up now.

804
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I really hope that it is more

805
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:33.880
<v Speaker 1>in the line of being solved and people serving the time.

806
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.840
<v Speaker 1>I hope that's the case. My gut's just telling me

807
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.039
<v Speaker 1>that it's the other way around.

808
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:39.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, I mean, because a lot of times there's

809
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:43.239
<v Speaker 2>missing people too, exactly. The chances are like they maybe

810
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, are no longer here unfortunately.

811
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, and it could be just someone who just

812
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:50.840
<v Speaker 1>did something bad that got away with it. M h,

813
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:54.519
<v Speaker 1>well they say that. What's the saying is like you

814
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:58.239
<v Speaker 1>walk by everyone walks by a murder in their life

815
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:00.920
<v Speaker 1>or something like yes or something. I'm gonna look that up.

816
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Or isn't it what's that one the seven degree separation

817
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:06.800
<v Speaker 2>or something that's all.

818
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:10.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, but.

819
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.280
<v Speaker 2>I have heard this walking by a murderer thing, and

820
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:15.440
<v Speaker 2>lots of times it could be people who too, you like,

821
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:18.280
<v Speaker 2>least expect least expect it.

822
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly the average person. This is by the New

823
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:26.960
<v Speaker 1>York Post. The average person walks past thirty six murderers.

824
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:30.280
<v Speaker 2>And oh yeah, sleep on that one.

825
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, okay, that was much higher than I thought.

826
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:38.519
<v Speaker 2>Holy fuck, real scary huh. Okay, Well, we got to

827
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:39.960
<v Speaker 2>go put some chickens in their coop.

828
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 1>We do. It's getting dark outside. They gotta go to bed.

829
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah. If you guys have any more recommendations, hit

830
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:47.000
<v Speaker 1>us up. You want to check out our social media

831
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:49.760
<v Speaker 1>is where we're gonna be posting some pretty much, well

832
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty much some pretty awesome YouTube videos here. Soon all

833
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:55.559
<v Speaker 1>the links are down there. Got Patreon, we got Instagram,

834
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:59.239
<v Speaker 1>faithbook YouTube. We'll be doing a chicken coop building video

835
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:03.880
<v Speaker 1>on YouTube. Because why the fuck not. Yeah, all the

836
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.880
<v Speaker 1>links are down there. We appreciate you guys being here,

837
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:07.760
<v Speaker 1>You're absolutely awesome, and of course, as

838
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Always, stay wicked.