Speaker 1: Deep in the peaceful town of Liska, Iowa, lies a
Speaker 1: weathered old house at the end of a tranquil street.
Speaker 1: The surrounding areas boasts a collection of churches, while the
Speaker 1: nearby park gazes upon the local middle school. Although this
Speaker 1: house blends in with the others in the neighborhood, a
Speaker 1: peculiar silence envelops it. The once vibrant structure now stands
Speaker 1: securely sealed as a small sign bearing the words Bliska
Speaker 1: Axe Murder House stands as a solemn reminder of the
Speaker 1: chilling events that once unfolded within its walls.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked.
Speaker 1: And Grim, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Warning the following podcasts and material more your audience listener discretion.
Speaker 1: Can you hear the train off in the distance?
Speaker 2: I sure can.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's coming through in the audio,
Speaker 1: but there's this train just going off in the distance.
Speaker 2: It was for your intro, and I was like, I
Speaker 2: hope they can hear it. That's kind of cool, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was annoying. I'm trying to record the intro.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So there's this theory in the area where
Speaker 1: we live. When you can hear the train really clearly,
Speaker 1: it means.
Speaker 2: It's going to rain rain soon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because the theory is that the sound bounces
Speaker 1: off the clouds and like you can hear it a
Speaker 1: little bit easier. So if it's clear skies, the sound
Speaker 1: just kind of dissipates.
Speaker 2: Okay, we can hear well. So I'm wondering, are we
Speaker 2: going to get rain?
Speaker 1: There's a chance hopefully we might get rain. We need rain,
Speaker 1: we do living in British Columbia. Our province is on
Speaker 1: fire and Nicole even mentioned a tragic story of a
Speaker 1: nineteen year old wildfire fighter who tragically lost their lives.
Speaker 1: So our condolence is to their family for that that's
Speaker 1: just recently.
Speaker 2: That it's a dangerous job and oh that must just be.
Speaker 2: That's devastating.
Speaker 1: It is, and it seems like every year our province
Speaker 1: is just getting worse and worse with how the fires
Speaker 1: are even other provinces like over in Alberta. It's terrible.
Speaker 1: So if it rains tonight, it's a god sin.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. So we did get some rain yesterday, right
Speaker 2: and overnight I think a little bit.
Speaker 1: We did, which is good, but it also came with
Speaker 1: thunder and lightning.
Speaker 2: Yes, which is not good.
Speaker 1: No. What is good though, apparently for us, is we
Speaker 1: got chickens.
Speaker 2: We got chickens.
Speaker 1: So look forward on our social media to seeing some
Speaker 1: chicken posts because we have chickens.
Speaker 2: Oh I should actually we should post that on our Instagram. Hey,
Speaker 2: in our Facebook, we should. I got a photo. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have six chickens.
Speaker 1: Now living in a tiny home, just rocking with six
Speaker 1: chickens and two huskies and a black cat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's their life, living our best life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with a true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't complain. Pretty good actually, but.
Speaker 1: Ye are obsessed with the chickens.
Speaker 2: Oh, I am Ben has very much so been like,
Speaker 2: don't get attached.
Speaker 1: They're not pets, they are farm animals.
Speaker 2: But oh man, it's hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would say five out of the six I'm not
Speaker 2: attached to, or actually came maybe four out of the six.
Speaker 2: It's in between that there is one that I am
Speaker 2: attached to.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We the three of them were born on May fourth.
Speaker 1: Yep, so we star Wars.
Speaker 2: We have named them star Wars names. And there's this
Speaker 2: one little one named Lea, and she's a feisty little
Speaker 2: thing and she's the only one that really lets me
Speaker 2: pick her up, so I'm just smitten.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the other two Star Wars names Boca ten
Speaker 1: oh yeah and Ahsoka.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So those are the three Star Wars chickens. We can
Speaker 1: still not tell two of the other ones apart, so
Speaker 1: they don't have names yet, not until we can identify them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I still think they'll probably be Thing one
Speaker 2: and Thing two.
Speaker 1: Probably we've been calling him that. There's blue Thing one
Speaker 1: and Thing two.
Speaker 2: Sorry, don't get attached to the chickens. Except they all
Speaker 2: have names.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can name them.
Speaker 2: Good gosh.
Speaker 1: I wanted to name them soup stock, but you wouldn't
Speaker 1: let me. Anyways, we got a very interesting case coming today,
Speaker 1: we sure do. So. This is one that has been
Speaker 1: requested time and time again. So here we are. This
Speaker 1: is the story of the Veliska Axe murders. You ready
Speaker 1: for this one?
Speaker 2: I am. Let's do her.
Speaker 1: Okay, So today's story begins with a loving family. It
Speaker 1: starts with Josiah B. Moore, who was forty three and
Speaker 1: his wife, Sarah, who was thirty nine. The two of
Speaker 1: them were devoted parents in a vibrant and loving family. Okay,
Speaker 1: so their family was of course known as the Moors.
Speaker 1: So together they had four children. They had Herman Montgomery,
Speaker 1: who was the oldest at eleven years old, Mary Catherine
Speaker 1: who was ten, Arthur Boyd who was seven, and Paul
Speaker 1: Vernon who was five. The Moors seemed to have absolutely
Speaker 1: everything right. They had a nice home that was filled
Speaker 1: with love and laughter, and they were held in high
Speaker 1: regards within their community. Neighbors and friends just kind of
Speaker 1: looked on and loved it. It was kind of hard not
Speaker 1: to love what you saw within this family and their home. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think to me, like the Moors were the kind
Speaker 1: of family that you like, you want to hate them,
Speaker 1: but you can't because they're, like, they're just too perfect.
Speaker 1: So you're envious of that. So you don't like hate them.
Speaker 2: But you like, oh you strive to kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Yeah, no, I get that.
Speaker 2: But it's also kind of I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people it's like the grass is greener on the other
Speaker 2: side or whatever, so maybe it's not so good.
Speaker 1: That's true. You never know, the grass is generally greener
Speaker 1: on the other side, so always keep that in mind.
Speaker 1: Not greener or sorry, not greener. Yeah, it not is
Speaker 1: it's not. So. This story takes place in the evening
Speaker 1: of June ninth in nineteen twelve. So little ten year
Speaker 1: old Mary Catherine Moore sent out a special invitation. She
Speaker 1: invited eight year old na May Stillinger and Lena Gertrude Stillinger,
Speaker 1: who is twelve years old. Okay, she invited them over
Speaker 1: to come over for a sleep over at their house. Nice,
Speaker 1: you know, a little get together thing.
Speaker 2: I kind of miss those sometimes.
Speaker 1: I mean like they were already friends. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: like exactly out of the blue or anything. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was just kind of something that they were rolling with
Speaker 1: and you know, hey, come on over for sleepover. So
Speaker 1: they were ready for it. It was gonna be fun.
Speaker 1: They're gonna come over to the Moore's family residence and
Speaker 1: just have a great time with friends. Earlier in the evening,
Speaker 1: the More family, along with the visiting two girls, decided
Speaker 1: to attend the local Presbyterian church together, where they all
Speaker 1: actively participated in a children's day program. Now, this was
Speaker 1: an event that was carefully coordinated by Sarah Moore, the
Speaker 1: mother of the household. Okay, now, I kind of picture
Speaker 1: her as like a Martha Stewart type. I don't know,
Speaker 1: Like I don't mean that to be an insult. I
Speaker 1: mean more so like she's someone who like welcomes people
Speaker 1: into her home, like you know, there's always fresh baked
Speaker 1: cookies out, Like she's putting together these events for the
Speaker 1: kids at the local church. Just seems like this, like
Speaker 1: picturesque type mother figure.
Speaker 2: The house is probably always clean. Anyone could stop by
Speaker 2: it time. That was our It was our issue was
Speaker 2: like if you don't if we didn't know you were
Speaker 2: coming over, like, don't because our house is a mess.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So anyways, the program at the church finished up
Speaker 1: by nine to thirty pm, after which the More family,
Speaker 1: along with the two Stelling your sisters, took a walk
Speaker 1: back to their house. They strolled down the sidewalk back
Speaker 1: at the moor House, arriving somewhere between nine point fifteen
Speaker 1: and ten pm. So the evening was going great. The
Speaker 1: church event went well. All the children loved it. They
Speaker 1: were having fun playing and just doing their thing. Everything
Speaker 1: was just perfect. Perfect with the evening, perfect with the community.
Speaker 1: Was just perfect.
Speaker 2: I don't like when things are described as perfect.
Speaker 1: No, because what generally when something is perfect, it is
Speaker 1: that grass is greener. On the other side, it is
Speaker 1: not quite.
Speaker 2: So nothing's perfect.
Speaker 1: So in a grim twist of fate, however, this unassuming
Speaker 1: little white house held the seemingly perfect family inside. But
Speaker 1: it became the stage for a brutal act that would
Speaker 1: unfold this.
Speaker 2: Very summer night, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: Under the cover of darkness, and sometime shortly after midnight,
Speaker 1: an intruder broke into the Moor home and crept through
Speaker 1: the shadows of the unlit house as everyone slept within
Speaker 1: its walls. Josiah and Sarah Moore were upstairs in the
Speaker 1: bedroom sound asleep, while their four children were in the
Speaker 1: room just down the hallway. The two Stilling her sisters
Speaker 1: were in a guest bedroom on the first floor and
Speaker 1: were the closest to the intruder and would be the
Speaker 1: very first bedroom that they would be the intruder would
Speaker 1: be faced with. So this brings us to the following morning.
Speaker 2: Oh Lord and Kate, people were sleeping over too, right, the.
Speaker 1: Tw Stilling your sisters in the guest bedroom.
Speaker 2: Yesh okay, I hate when shit like that happened.
Speaker 1: So upstairs was the mother and father, down the hall
Speaker 1: was the kids, and then downstairs on the first floor
Speaker 1: was the guest bedroom with the two sisters who were.
Speaker 2: Staying over yep okay.
Speaker 1: So as the sun was rising into the sky in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood, the neighbor Mary Peckham, was up at about
Speaker 1: five am hanging laundry on her clothesline. By the time
Speaker 1: seven am rolled around, Mary began to grow a little
Speaker 1: concerned when she noticed that an uncharacteristic thing was occurring
Speaker 1: the neighbors the moors. Their house was still in quiet
Speaker 1: by now the family was typically awake and doing daily chores,
Speaker 1: and their unattended horses even were beginning to stir. So
Speaker 1: she decided to head over to the house and knock
Speaker 1: on the door, but there was no response. So Mary
Speaker 1: knew something wasn't right.
Speaker 2: So she probably got feeling too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely so what she didn't react in reaction. She
Speaker 1: called Josiah's brother Ross to come over to see what
Speaker 1: was going on. So it was about eight thirty am
Speaker 1: that Ross would arrive in using his key his own
Speaker 1: key for the home, he would unlock the front door
Speaker 1: and step inside. Ross made his way through the house
Speaker 1: and starting with the guest bedroom, he found the two
Speaker 1: stelling Youer sisters were brutally murdered in a horrific and
Speaker 1: gory and bloody scene. Proceeding through the house, they would
Speaker 1: find that every single person within the home was killed.
Speaker 1: Oh no, they were all laying lifeless in bed, their
Speaker 1: bodies brutally bludgeoned in the head beyond recognition. The murder
Speaker 1: weapon was an act.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm yep. So okay. The thing that really gets
Speaker 2: me is, so, say, like, you're having to go to
Speaker 2: someone's house because things are not normal, right yeah, And
Speaker 2: that moment when you're kind of going in, you probably
Speaker 2: are so hopeful, like oh, or making up things in
Speaker 2: your head like oh, I'm sure this is why this
Speaker 2: is happening. And you wouldn't really necessarily go to like
Speaker 2: the super dark place.
Speaker 1: Right yeah, because you're you're not in your comfort zone.
Speaker 1: So those little creeks of a house, those little groans
Speaker 1: and noises in the night. Usually you're familiar with your apartment,
Speaker 1: your house, or wherever you're sleeping, you know the noises.
Speaker 1: So if you're in a strange atmosphere, even if it's
Speaker 1: somewhere you've slept before, you don't know the noises yet.
Speaker 1: So that creek, you could think would be oh, that's
Speaker 1: just like the house settling or that might be just
Speaker 1: the cat walking down the hall.
Speaker 2: I more so meant like the brother though, having to
Speaker 2: enter the house.
Speaker 1: Oh I see, yeah, enter this.
Speaker 2: And kind of having this feeling of okay, like things
Speaker 2: are going to be okay, but in the back of
Speaker 2: your mind you're maybe wondering, and then coming upon a
Speaker 2: scene like this.
Speaker 1: No yeah that yeah, no no thanks yeah yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: when he did find the whole scene, and of course
Speaker 1: police were quickly notified and investigation did ensue, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of chilling facts about what went on with
Speaker 1: inside this house this night. One of the most chilling
Speaker 1: facts about it actually is they were able to surmise
Speaker 1: that regarding the secrets of murders within the more household,
Speaker 1: they found that the parents had fallen victim to the
Speaker 1: strange assault. First. Okay, so the parents their bedroom was upstairs,
Speaker 1: So what would have to happen Whoever it was who
Speaker 1: entered the home systematically killed each in every occupant. They
Speaker 1: made their way to the second floor, where Josiah and
Speaker 1: Sarah were sleeping and attacked them first.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that kind of makes sense though, that
Speaker 2: you would want the adults gone first.
Speaker 1: So put it this way, how did they know, yes,
Speaker 1: where the parents were?
Speaker 2: I know, I was wondering that as well.
Speaker 1: There's a lot to this, not only that how did
Speaker 1: they make it there without being heard?
Speaker 2: But I also I was just going to say, like,
Speaker 2: I feel like kids they sleep heavier though often too
Speaker 2: do what you think?
Speaker 1: That's true?
Speaker 2: So maybe they maybe just honestly didn't hear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true. Well, as I mentioned, the murder
Speaker 1: weapon that was used in this case was of course
Speaker 1: an axe, as per the title says, and this axe
Speaker 1: was apparently swung at the sleeping victims with such intensity
Speaker 1: that at one point in mid swing, it struck the
Speaker 1: ceiling above the bed where the two slept as the
Speaker 1: weapon rained down on them, leaving a deep gouge in
Speaker 1: the ceiling behind.
Speaker 2: Oh whoa, that is a visual wow.
Speaker 1: So Josiah Moore had endured over thirty brutal strikes from
Speaker 1: the axe before the attacker was finished with him. Seriously,
Speaker 1: thirty whoa, and the target for each strike was the head.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So regardless of the amount of strikes, each and every
Speaker 1: victim in the home would be left completely unrecognizable because
Speaker 1: it was the target of their head. Their face was
Speaker 1: basically left to be a mashed void of just carnage
Speaker 1: left behind from the attack.
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, holy that Okay, first of all, like an
Speaker 2: axe is such such a weapon like of choice, Like
Speaker 2: that's just unbelievable to me that that's what someone chooses.
Speaker 2: And then to literally go down like because I've chopped
Speaker 2: wood before, right, it's freaking hard. I couldn't imagine like, yeah,
Speaker 2: doing that thirty times to someone. Well, it almost seems
Speaker 2: like that's an overkilling that they have, like a hatred
Speaker 2: towards this person.
Speaker 1: It's there's something else there. I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: hatred towards that person, but a hatred or taking out
Speaker 1: of something, because I mean, you can have some anger
Speaker 1: towards someone else that you could be taking out or
Speaker 1: something else.
Speaker 2: I think it could be that you could be thinking
Speaker 2: that's almost a representation of like your parents or something,
Speaker 2: and then taking it out potentially. Right.
Speaker 1: So, after the attack, though was finished on the parents,
Speaker 1: they then backtracked through the house with almost an unearthly
Speaker 1: familiarity through the home because they knew where the parents were,
Speaker 1: and then went to the children next, and then they
Speaker 1: visited the stilling her sisters. So another little eerie and
Speaker 1: bone chilling piece of this puzzle what the investigators were
Speaker 1: able to determine that each victim was found to be
Speaker 1: killed in their sleep. They were all sleeping when killed,
Speaker 1: including both the parents.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yes, how does that work?
Speaker 1: Hey, no idea, but that axe rained down one by
Speaker 1: one on each person. No one woke up, So there
Speaker 1: is except for one.
Speaker 2: No screams or anything.
Speaker 1: Correct. So the last room that he would have entered,
Speaker 1: or they would have entered. My apologies contain the stilling
Speaker 1: your sisters. Lena Stillinger, who was twelve years old, was
Speaker 1: found to have a potential defensive womb on her arm
Speaker 1: that was laid in a way that suggested that she
Speaker 1: would have potentially been trying to protect herself from the
Speaker 1: bloodied axe that was being swung down on her as
Speaker 1: she laid in bed.
Speaker 2: Wow, so it.
Speaker 1: Was her left arm that had a laceration on the
Speaker 1: forearm area, though it.
Speaker 2: Was like covering her face.
Speaker 1: Correct, And it was laying in a way that suggests
Speaker 1: that she may have been trying to defend herself. Such
Speaker 1: how she would have gained the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it sure takes a freakin complete monster
Speaker 2: to I mean, it's terrible killing anyone, But to go
Speaker 2: about like also killing the kids, like these young kids
Speaker 2: that really would have posed no threat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is just especially okay they're asleep?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like why yeah?
Speaker 1: So what's the motive? Is it a vendetta of some sort?
Speaker 1: Are you just taking out anger?
Speaker 2: If it's a vendetta, like then it should just mostly
Speaker 2: be to the parents, You would think, you would. What
Speaker 2: on earth what the kids have done?
Speaker 1: Who knows? So amiss this whole ghastly state of bodies.
Speaker 1: Another disturbing aspect unfolded as a police meticulously combed through
Speaker 1: the residence. The killer had orchestrated a kind of macabre
Speaker 1: ritual after slaying everyone. So they had covered the faces
Speaker 1: of the deceased parents with sheets and then also covered
Speaker 1: the faces of the children with articles of clothing. So
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's almost like that the killer didn't
Speaker 1: like looking at it, that's my opinion. But not only that,
Speaker 1: every single mirror and every single window throughout the house
Speaker 1: was also meticulously covered with cloth and towels.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, so we also this person also didn't like looking at.
Speaker 1: Themselves maybe, huh. One of the strangest facts about this case,
Speaker 1: a slab of uncooked bacon weighing approximately two pounds, was
Speaker 1: wrapped in a dish towel and found in the stillinger
Speaker 1: sister's bedroom where they were sleeping. Really, yes, a slab
Speaker 1: of two pound uncooked bacon wrapped in a towel A
Speaker 1: little odd for a find.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but maybe that could have been something they.
Speaker 1: Had brought the little girls. Yeah, I highly doubt it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It seems weird that a killer would
Speaker 2: leap that in one of the bedroom.
Speaker 1: Also seems weird that a little girl would just take
Speaker 1: that over to a friend's house for a sleepover. But
Speaker 1: I mean, who am I to judge. I've never been
Speaker 1: to a little girl's sleepover. So finally, inside the home,
Speaker 1: police also found a bowl of water that was stained
Speaker 1: red with blood. Investigators surmise the murderer had used this
Speaker 1: bowl to clean themselves up before leaving the scene of
Speaker 1: the heinous crime. So as news of the brutal incidents
Speaker 1: spread across the town of about two thousand residents, it
Speaker 1: was all anyone could talk about. A crowd began to
Speaker 1: assemble outside the moorhouse, which of course detracted the attention
Speaker 1: of many of the investigators on the scene, like such
Speaker 1: as police, corner minister, several doctors, etc. Right, And although
Speaker 1: officials cautioned the townspeople against entering the premise whatsoever, their
Speaker 1: morbid fascination proved absolutely overwhelming, and they began wandering inside the.
Speaker 2: Home seriously, and while bodies and stuff were still in there.
Speaker 1: Even with the bodies still in there, would just go in. Yes,
Speaker 1: there were even actual fuck there were even reports of
Speaker 1: people handling the murder weapon posing in front of the bodies. What. Yes,
Speaker 1: this isn't like a museum.
Speaker 2: Well I can't even speak, but it's not like an
Speaker 2: exit exhibits.
Speaker 1: No, it's not. It's a murder scene. And APPROXI the
Speaker 1: fuck it's estimated that approximately one hundred individuals to come
Speaker 1: to their morbid curiosity and ventured into the home throughout
Speaker 1: the crime scene.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And of course it's probably needless to say that they
Speaker 1: contaminated it horribly.
Speaker 2: Yes, big time.
Speaker 1: Yeah hm hmm.
Speaker 2: I mean I guess like they back then they wouldn't
Speaker 2: have had true crime podcasts and stuff that they could
Speaker 2: listen to. That kind of eases that curiosity. But still,
Speaker 2: also I'm confused of why they were even able to
Speaker 2: get in there in the first place.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know exactly why they were
Speaker 1: able to enter the premise. I would assume that authorities
Speaker 1: would be deterring people from entering, not only deterring, but
Speaker 1: preventing mm hmm. But it seems that they just were
Speaker 1: able to enter anyways. Maybe police were not caring too much.
Speaker 1: Maybe police were overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I guess it's a really it was a
Speaker 2: small town. Yeah, they probably had never dealt with anything
Speaker 2: like this before.
Speaker 1: No, they probably didn't have many police officers on scene.
Speaker 1: Maybe they only had two officers there. Maybe two officers
Speaker 1: are the ones trying to take care of this, and
Speaker 1: people are just entering willy nilly as the officers have
Speaker 1: their back turned.
Speaker 2: Jeez. Almost probably, Oh, I know these people like kind
Speaker 2: of you know.
Speaker 1: There was also a report that I found that one
Speaker 1: of the towns people even seized a fragment of Josiah's
Speaker 1: skull as a macob keepsake. Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that just seems mind blowing to me. Whoa like
Speaker 2: almost really more for a bit? Well, yeah, that they
Speaker 2: would just want to go in there and touch the
Speaker 2: murder weapon and keep souvenirs like what.
Speaker 1: The Yeah, So, of course, the search for the culprit
Speaker 1: behind the murder that would of course become infamously known
Speaker 1: as the Vliska Axe murders proved to be an arduous
Speaker 1: task for the authorities, who found themselves alarmingly short on
Speaker 1: leads and dealing with a what's the word, I'm looking
Speaker 1: for crime scene? Contaminated crime scene? There we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, despite making apparently like a half hearted attempt to
Speaker 1: scour the town is words like kind of a description
Speaker 1: that I've been seeing, so not really putting full effort
Speaker 1: into it, really searched through the town and surrounding countryside.
Speaker 1: Most officials believe that the killer had actually managed to
Speaker 1: elude capture, mostly due to the substantial five hour head start.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Kind of the murder occurred in the middle of the night. Yep,
Speaker 1: took off out of town. Police are five hours by behind.
Speaker 2: He's already gone god knows where.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Some bloodhounds though, we're brought in as an attempt to
Speaker 1: aid the search. But because of all the towns people
Speaker 1: treading all over the crime scene, it was absolutely impossible
Speaker 1: for the dogs to get a scent on the culprit,
Speaker 1: let alone a scent trail leading out so whether or
Speaker 1: not it's from a contaminated crime scene or not, authorities
Speaker 1: were left with little snow evidence pointing towards who could
Speaker 1: have done this horrendous crime. Several suspects did emerge over time,
Speaker 1: but none of them yielded any substantial results. So I
Speaker 1: do have a list of suspects and some theories here
Speaker 1: that we're going to go over in a second.
Speaker 2: Okay, and I'm assuming a lot because it seemed like
Speaker 2: this person may have known them potentially, which could also
Speaker 2: have been a reason why they didn't scream, because they
Speaker 2: could have just been like waking up or whatever and
Speaker 2: then seeing someone they know, which would have kind of
Speaker 2: it would have made them not scream quite as quickly.
Speaker 1: But it was surmised everyone was killed in their sleeps.
Speaker 1: They weren't breaking right right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't even quite understand how they would
Speaker 2: have done that when people were sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't understand it either.
Speaker 2: Huh interesting, Yeah, I mean he he, she whatever, because
Speaker 2: we don't don't know.
Speaker 1: No, they.
Speaker 2: They wouldn't have been able to put this axe down
Speaker 2: on someone thirty times and then move on to the
Speaker 2: next person. I feel like they would have had to
Speaker 2: kill one swing to the man, then the woman, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then go back and like yeah, go to town or.
Speaker 1: Unless there was one one swing on the mother, Dennis,
Speaker 1: swing on the father repeated thirty times and then back
Speaker 1: to the mother or who knows, but yeah, there would
Speaker 1: have been mixing and matching of some sort.
Speaker 2: Hm.
Speaker 1: So anyways, onto the individual, the suspects, and the theories.
Speaker 1: You ready for this. So the first individual who was
Speaker 1: under scrutiny was a man by the name of Frank Jones.
Speaker 1: He was a local businessman who had been engaged in
Speaker 1: a competitive rivalry with Josiah is a nice way, we'll
Speaker 1: say it here. So Josiah had spent seven years working
Speaker 1: for Frank Jones in the farm equipment sales industry before
Speaker 1: Josiah left to establish his own competing company. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: So rumors circulated that Josiah had engaged in an affair
Speaker 1: with Frank's daughter in law, but these reports were kind
Speaker 1: of unsubstantiated. So, however, some townspeople maintained that an animosity
Speaker 1: grew between Moore and the Jones families, although no one
Speaker 1: would admit that it had escalated or anything to the
Speaker 1: point of murder specifically, and that's kind of where that lies.
Speaker 1: It was specific, it was just speculation on the potential
Speaker 1: of Frank Jones because of a feud between the two families.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it makes sense, I guess in this
Speaker 2: where he doesn't want competition, right, but that does seem
Speaker 2: like that's kind of go on next level here to
Speaker 2: go and murder them own people, definitely with an axe
Speaker 2: fords sakes.
Speaker 1: But especially like it's not only competition. But you look
Speaker 1: at it this way. If Frank did teach Josiah everything
Speaker 1: he knew or even gave resources to where you like
Speaker 1: where you purchase the farm equipment to resell it, so
Speaker 1: your your dealers and everything, and then Josiah leaves and
Speaker 1: uses all that information against him, Well, now his family
Speaker 1: is probably being like losing money because he taught someone
Speaker 1: else and he's using that in leverage against So it's
Speaker 1: kind of like this vicious like something that's going to
Speaker 1: eat you up inside, like how could I have taught
Speaker 1: him this? And how could he take this and do
Speaker 1: this to me?
Speaker 2: Like probably a feeling of he was stabbed in the
Speaker 2: back exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So now I don't know this specif the relationship
Speaker 1: between the two and how like their business life went.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Frank did teach him a shit
Speaker 1: ton or anything, but that is a potential way of
Speaker 1: how it could have gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense, but not necessarily
Speaker 2: to the extent of the crime.
Speaker 1: No. So, a second suspect, appearing far more promising, even
Speaker 1: confessed to the murders. Oh wow, albeit later retracted the confession,
Speaker 1: claiming police coercion.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we've heard of.
Speaker 1: That before, yep. So the man is Reverend Lynn George
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Kelly. So, Reverend George is an English immigrant and
Speaker 1: traveling minister, self ordained in fact actually, who had a
Speaker 1: history of deviant sexual behavior and mental issues. They emerged
Speaker 1: as a person of interest specifically because they're history.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So George openly admitted to being present in Valliska, the
Speaker 1: town on the night of the axe murders, and acknowledged
Speaker 1: his early morning departure. So, while his small stature and
Speaker 1: timid demeanor led some to doubt his involvement, there were
Speaker 1: certain factors that police considered compelling in establishing him as
Speaker 1: a prime candidate. So George was left handed a conclusion
Speaker 1: drawn from blood spatter analysis indicated that the perpetrators shared
Speaker 1: this trait. They were also left handed, okay. Additionally, George
Speaker 1: had had a known connection to the More family, as
Speaker 1: many had witnessed him apparently observing the family during church
Speaker 1: services and apparently as well while they were out doing
Speaker 1: their daily lives around town. Furthermore, a nearby dry cleaner
Speaker 1: had received blood stained garments from George a few days
Speaker 1: after the murder.
Speaker 2: Whoa.
Speaker 1: It was reported that he even approached the police masquerading
Speaker 1: as a Scotland yard officer, requesting access to the crime scene.
Speaker 2: Okay, but those clothes I feel like would.
Speaker 1: Be drenched I think so as well, not.
Speaker 2: Just like some blood splatter on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I couldn't find any more information on that
Speaker 1: kind of dry cleaning incident, how much blood or anything.
Speaker 1: I have a feeling, well, I don't know if the
Speaker 1: clothes were actually washed, you know, I'm not too sure
Speaker 1: what kind of evidence would there be. It would just
Speaker 1: be really hearsay.
Speaker 2: Well, and I also just feel like whoever did this
Speaker 2: would discard of their clothes and not bring them to
Speaker 2: the dry cleaner, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean this is early nineteen hundreds though, too, It's
Speaker 1: nineteen twelve. Yeah, did I just say early nineteen hundreds?
Speaker 2: Ugh, you would just throw them in the garbage.
Speaker 1: I think maybe, I mean hard to say. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: kind of talking like farm Life nineteen twelve here, right,
Speaker 1: a little bit different.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could just be like, oh, I had a
Speaker 2: murder or not murder, but I had to put down
Speaker 2: or kill some cows or something.
Speaker 1: Oh I just had a murder. Now I need my
Speaker 1: shit wash. He's real casual about it. So, during a
Speaker 1: prolonged interrogation with George Kelly, he eventually signed a detailed
Speaker 1: confession outlining his involvement in the crime. However, it was
Speaker 1: of course redacted in court. A jury declined to indict er, sorry,
Speaker 1: indict him based on any available evidence, because well there
Speaker 1: was none. So he was acquitted on all charges after
Speaker 1: two trials, and the mystery of the Vliska axe murder
Speaker 1: persistent persisted.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I don't know, Okay, let's keep going here.
Speaker 1: Another theory implicated Senator Jones, who allegedly hired a man
Speaker 1: by the name of William quote Blackie Mansfield to carry
Speaker 1: out the murders. So Mansfield, I'll call Mansfield by his
Speaker 1: last name, suspected of being a cocaine indicted serial killer.
Speaker 1: Oh geez, I've been linked to similar acts murders in
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs and other locations. Detective James Newton Wilkins believed
Speaker 1: Mansfield was responsible for various killings due to the striking
Speaker 1: similarities in their execution. Now, despite some compelling evidence, Manfield's alibi,
Speaker 1: supported by payroll records, placed him in Illinois at the
Speaker 1: time of Vliska murders. Ultimately, Mansfield was released due to
Speaker 1: insufficient evidence.
Speaker 2: Okay, shit, because what I was thinking is that I
Speaker 2: was going to ask if there had been kind of
Speaker 2: similar other murders like this. I don't know, because it
Speaker 2: doesn't seem like this would have been someone's necessarily first time.
Speaker 2: But also, do you know why the senator was it?
Speaker 2: The senator would have hired a hit man?
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I didn't really dive too deep into it because it
Speaker 1: was kind of like, well, it's like a falsified or
Speaker 1: a proven false theory, So I was like, eh, but.
Speaker 2: It could it could make sense that this was a
Speaker 2: hit man too, Like not saying that that it's that,
Speaker 2: but it could be someone else or something.
Speaker 1: But you still need a motive. So if it is
Speaker 1: a hit man of some sort, why.
Speaker 2: Well, it could have been that other business owner who
Speaker 2: hired a hit man.
Speaker 1: Maybe Frank, Yeah, possibly possible. I mean, there are a
Speaker 1: lot of theories out there basically on who could have
Speaker 1: been like the true killer behind this. There is another one,
Speaker 1: for example, Henry Lee Moore, no relation to more family.
Speaker 1: He was another acts wielding serial killer that became a
Speaker 1: person of interest due to resemblance in the crimes, but
Speaker 1: again there's no real evidence for it. Another is Sam Moyer,
Speaker 1: who's Josiah's other in law. He was raised in suspicion
Speaker 1: due to reported threats against Josiah's life. However, through investigation
Speaker 1: later they cleared him of any involvement. Additionally, Paul Mueller,
Speaker 1: who's an immigrant, is believed to be connected to a
Speaker 1: series of murders across the United States, including this as
Speaker 1: murder case, so he was identified as a possible suspect
Speaker 1: by two authors Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James in
Speaker 1: their book The Man from the Train. I did not
Speaker 1: get a chance to read the book. I so want
Speaker 1: to now, but unfortunately, none of these theories, including this
Speaker 1: one from the book has any substantial evidence to really
Speaker 1: bring anything forward, to prove anything and show any individual
Speaker 1: to be the one responsible.
Speaker 2: So they just have basically no one pretty much, and
Speaker 2: I mean so much time has passed. This is just
Speaker 2: probably it would be a freaking miracle if this ever
Speaker 2: got solved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you would probably need physical evidence with like a
Speaker 1: diary of someone writing it back in the day or
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, where someone finds like their
Speaker 1: great grandpa's I don't know, trunk of things from back
Speaker 1: in the day on the farm and inside there's a
Speaker 1: diary of how he describes this taking place and he
Speaker 1: was the one. Things like that, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, yeah, which I mean could potentially happen. I
Speaker 2: guess there is.
Speaker 1: Ever there is, but it's yeah, the chances are pretty
Speaker 1: slim basically.
Speaker 2: And to be honest, none of those theories really stood
Speaker 2: out to me that that much.
Speaker 1: No, not so much, which sucks. The one reverend is
Speaker 1: pretty much the one with the most substance to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but why, I mean, yeah, all of them is.
Speaker 1: Kind of well, why that individual is one of the
Speaker 1: few out of this case where it's they have history,
Speaker 1: They have a history, They were in town and they
Speaker 1: were seen actually looking at the watching or whatever, the
Speaker 1: meror family, and then I mean it was coerced, but
Speaker 1: there was a confession, but it was redacted. So that
Speaker 1: is the one that's the most compelling as far as
Speaker 1: I'm concerned. Yeah, not saying it's yeah, evidential, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but I still think it was some sort of
Speaker 2: hit man. That's sort of my thought. But I don't
Speaker 2: know who necessarily hired.
Speaker 1: It's possible, and I mean, like over time, like this
Speaker 1: is a case that's over one hundred years old, so
Speaker 1: it basically just fizzled out, grew cold, and there's not
Speaker 1: really anything anyone can bring forward for the case. The
Speaker 1: murder house, as the Moorhouse, which is now called the
Speaker 1: feliska Axe Murder House, was basically just left abandoned. Its
Speaker 1: doors were left tightly sealed. No attempts were made to
Speaker 1: sell the property, and the original layout remained touched. Today,
Speaker 1: the house stands as a solemn tourist attraction, nestled at
Speaker 1: the end of the Tranquil Street while life carries on
Speaker 1: around it.
Speaker 2: Can you actually go in the house now, I wonder
Speaker 2: you can? Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a tourist attraction.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, though that story maybe lost to history. The Walliska
Speaker 1: House itself is more than just a tourist attraction, though
Speaker 1: for those who are curious and intrigued. In this case,
Speaker 1: it's not the end of it. It has become a
Speaker 1: paranormal hotspot.
Speaker 2: Really, it has, not surprising.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so many people travel from around the world to
Speaker 1: visit this site in hopes of not only you know,
Speaker 1: visiting the axe murder House of Alisca, but potentially to
Speaker 1: see some ghosts.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Some are actually even granted the opportunity to perform paranormal
Speaker 1: investigations after hours, which is pretty dope. I'd love to
Speaker 1: go there and yeah no, yeah no, yeah no, yeah no, Okay.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean i'd go there, but I don't know
Speaker 2: if I want to be trying to play around with that.
Speaker 2: I oh, yeah, that's terrifying.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, the spirits that are said to reside within
Speaker 1: kind of vary depending on who you're talking to or
Speaker 1: articles you read or TV shows you watch or whatever. Right,
Speaker 1: but typically it's a combination of the following victims of
Speaker 1: the murder, the person who committed the murders, and various
Speaker 1: dark and malicious spirits.
Speaker 2: Oka.
Speaker 1: Needless to say, though, this story is one of those
Speaker 1: more famous and well known cases in the United States,
Speaker 1: And of course it's kind of understandable why it's very
Speaker 1: gruesome and it's kind of growing more and more to
Speaker 1: this day because it's evolved into this paranormal story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have.
Speaker 1: A feeling that it's going to be one of these
Speaker 1: more famous cases for a long time to come.
Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and it's just really too bad though, Like
Speaker 2: the whole family just got taken out, and then it
Speaker 2: was the night of a sleepover as well, Like, oh,
Speaker 2: I hate events like that. People, you know, you're really
Speaker 2: really just the wrong time. Gosh. Yeah, like those parents
Speaker 2: are they I imagine they you know, gosh, like why
Speaker 2: did I let them go sleep over? Right? And they
Speaker 2: didn't do anything wrong, like nothing wrong, but it just
Speaker 2: gosh like could something have come up where like they
Speaker 2: couldn't end up going or whatever? Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh gosh, Well, I mean life is like that, right,
Speaker 1: one decision can lead to something completely different, whether it's
Speaker 1: good or bad, and it could be years later that
Speaker 1: that one decision makes an impact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: For example, if you're at a Starbucks, Okay, just bear
Speaker 1: with me here, You're at a Starbucks. You're waiting in
Speaker 1: line for the coffee. The line's rather long, and you
Speaker 1: look outside and you see a coffee shop across the street,
Speaker 1: one that's just opened up, a little local one. There's
Speaker 1: no one really there. Well, do you wait in line
Speaker 1: for your Starbucks coffee that you know you like, that
Speaker 1: you get every day, or do you cross the street
Speaker 1: and go to this little unknown one and roll the
Speaker 1: dice and see if it's good, just shop or not? Okay,
Speaker 1: you decide not to go over the coffee shop. You're
Speaker 1: just gonna wait in line and keep doing your thing.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what happens. You wait in line, get
Speaker 1: your coffee, and you go into work with your day,
Speaker 1: and your day just continues as it normally does. However,
Speaker 1: in the event that you do cross the street and
Speaker 1: you go to this coffee shop, you find out that
Speaker 1: it's better than Starbucks. You love it, Okay, so you
Speaker 1: start going there instead. Say, it's just as popular as
Speaker 1: Starbucks in a few months, right, so it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: which one you go to anymore, But you like this one.
Speaker 1: You're gonna stick it out. You love it and support local.
Speaker 1: It's a locally owned one. All of a sudden three
Speaker 1: years later, Hey, someone starts working there that you kind
Speaker 1: of like, you start talking with them, you start flirting
Speaker 1: with them. All of a sudden, oh my god, you
Speaker 1: start dating with them, and oh my god, you're married
Speaker 1: and you're having kids all because guess what, you cross
Speaker 1: the fucking street.
Speaker 2: And well, honestly, so many things in a person's life,
Speaker 2: it can go that way, Yeah, where you're like, wow,
Speaker 2: if I just change this or or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you can't look back and say, well, what if,
Speaker 1: what if? Kudoshit?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: No, no, you can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it is what it is, And maybe it's
Speaker 1: like that for a reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, gosh, it sure just doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: that family deserve this. It's like I almost feel like
Speaker 2: I wish I could know more, like what on earth?
Speaker 2: Because it also seemed like the person who was doing
Speaker 2: it could potentially have known the house and known them, which.
Speaker 1: It's potential really fucked. Or what if and bear with
Speaker 1: me here, Devil's advocate, what if, like you said, kids
Speaker 1: sleep a little heavier, what if they know Okay, I
Speaker 1: need to take out the parents first, because parents are
Speaker 1: going to probably wake up, but they're the most likely to,
Speaker 1: you know, in one on one I'll have a harder
Speaker 1: time with. So I need to take them out first.
Speaker 1: So they go in the house, they're creeping around, they
Speaker 1: peek in the bedroom. Yeah, kids go to the next one.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's kids. Oh, here's the adults, because.
Speaker 2: I mean, like parents are always peaking in kids' bedrooms
Speaker 2: to kind of make sure they're asleep and stuff, right,
Speaker 2: So kids, I feel like, are used to that sort
Speaker 2: of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or what if the person was scoping out the
Speaker 1: house and they saw the parents in the window when
Speaker 1: they were going to sleep and they just waited an
Speaker 1: hour after they went to sleep or whatever.
Speaker 2: M h Yeah, wow, just brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's the story of the Vliska X murders.
Speaker 1: It was a very interesting case, very interesting case. Thank
Speaker 1: you for those who recommended it. Yeah, I think we
Speaker 1: had probably a couple dozen people recommended to us over
Speaker 1: the course of the last year at least.
Speaker 2: So well, I've definitely heard of this case, mostly the title,
Speaker 2: I think, probably from just recommendations, but I've never like
Speaker 2: listened to any podcasts or read up on it at all.
Speaker 2: So well, I mean, I just freaking hate these unsolved ones.
Speaker 1: So yeah. Well, I mean there's a lot out there.
Speaker 1: I consider how many murders crimes all occur, I guarantee
Speaker 1: you it's a small fraction that actually get solved.
Speaker 2: I feel like it has to be at least half.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: Really, Hey, I don't think so. I wonder what the
Speaker 2: stats are on that. I would feel like it would
Speaker 2: be at least half. But yeah, maybe not. It should be.
Speaker 2: For the love of God, don't go murder people.
Speaker 1: No, don't.
Speaker 2: I mean, because I feel like it's got it. I
Speaker 2: feel like more gets solved than not.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Gosh, that's that's a disturbing way to end this podcast. Wow.
Speaker 1: Sorry should I Should I not have said that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to look that up now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I really hope that it is more
Speaker 1: in the line of being solved and people serving the time.
Speaker 1: I hope that's the case. My gut's just telling me
Speaker 1: that it's the other way around.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, because a lot of times there's
Speaker 2: missing people too, exactly. The chances are like they maybe
Speaker 2: you know, are no longer here unfortunately.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and it could be just someone who just
Speaker 1: did something bad that got away with it. M h,
Speaker 1: well they say that. What's the saying is like you
Speaker 1: walk by everyone walks by a murder in their life
Speaker 1: or something like yes or something. I'm gonna look that up.
Speaker 2: Or isn't it what's that one the seven degree separation
Speaker 2: or something that's all.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I have heard this walking by a murderer thing, and
Speaker 2: lots of times it could be people who too, you like,
Speaker 2: least expect least expect it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly the average person. This is by the New
Speaker 1: York Post. The average person walks past thirty six murderers.
Speaker 2: And oh yeah, sleep on that one.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, okay, that was much higher than I thought.
Speaker 2: Holy fuck, real scary huh. Okay, Well, we got to
Speaker 2: go put some chickens in their coop.
Speaker 1: We do. It's getting dark outside. They gotta go to bed.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. If you guys have any more recommendations, hit
Speaker 1: us up. You want to check out our social media
Speaker 1: is where we're gonna be posting some pretty much, well
Speaker 1: pretty much some pretty awesome YouTube videos here. Soon all
Speaker 1: the links are down there. Got Patreon, we got Instagram,
Speaker 1: faithbook YouTube. We'll be doing a chicken coop building video
Speaker 1: on YouTube. Because why the fuck not. Yeah, all the
Speaker 1: links are down there. We appreciate you guys being here,
Speaker 1: You're absolutely awesome, and of course, as
Speaker 2: Always, stay wicked.