Speaker 1: What is up, Fellows, sickos imbf Felly coming at you
with the one, the only, the certified, fantabulous cost. Mister
Grant Hughes, we are abandoning our off season.
Speaker 2: Look Ahead ship to talk about a.
Speaker 1: Trade that went down on Sunday Father's Day, and I
guess we're gonna end up doing like two off season
look aheads though in this because we got to talk
about the Magic and the Grizzlies and where they go
from here. But we're gonna get into the trade details,
the fallout, the cap stuff, all of it.
Speaker 2: But Grant, before.
Speaker 1: We belly flop in as we are inclined to do,
how the heck are you?
Speaker 3: I am, let's see, humbled by the creativity of the
Magic and Grizzlies because you and I have probably made
up hundreds of fake trades or discuss them over the
course of these look aheads and just other general work,
and I don't think we landed on the one that
actually happened.
Speaker 4: So I guess we maybe are not creative enough, or
are we.
Speaker 1: Too creative that it not even mb front offices we're
thinking of our deals.
Speaker 4: That's what I It's a great spinning, really good spin
on it.
Speaker 2: We're gonna start here.
Speaker 1: It looks like Sham Sharania was right Grant, and I'll
read the quote from May twenty seventh. He said, this
is the most I think anticipation team executives have had
over an offseason. I think this offseason might be quote
again most the most craziest ever. Uh ten eleven out
of ten phrasing no, no, it'es there from Shams. But
I think there was this skepticism after he said that,
where it was, well, there's only one team with cap space.
Everyone's going to be trying to navigate the aprons. How
many people are going to be available via trade if
Yannis decides that he doesn't want to get moved from Milwaukee.
So there's always sort of that not people try to
pull poor cold water, but they're trying to approach this
from a more pragmatic perspective of oh no, this offseason
is not going to be as ridiculous as it seems.
And I'm sorry, but if we get a Desmond Baine
trade where there's four first round picks plus a swap
going out in the middle of the finals, like trades
have happened in the finals before, including when the Nuggets
were in the finals themselves and made that draft pick trade.
Speaker 2: I think, Okay, so he was involved.
Speaker 1: In that, But they're never right, They're never like this,
and so I'm inclined to think that Cham's was right.
That were in four quote one of the most craziest
offseasons ever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Desmond Bane for five first round assets in the
middle of June moves right past more crazier and and
definitely into most craziest. So you gotta hint, look, guess
what he's connected. So what he lacks in in what
he lacks in grammatical accuracy and phrasing, he makes up
for and like just knowing, Yeah, like he in some sense, Yeah,
like we knew the dearth of cap space generally, and
like all these extensions that got signed seemed to suggest
things wouldn't be you know, there wouldn't be a ton
of activity. But then all that does is really make
trades like the only way to get things done. And
I think that's kind of what he was nodding to,
is like, there will be players changing teams, it's just
not gonna it's gonna happen through really what the most exciting,
the most exciting ist way possible, which is trades.
Speaker 1: And I think also what goes into that is the
like wide openness of the landscape and especially in the
East to where I think the Magic just showed this
and we're gonna get into it in a second. But
like the Celtics are down for next year, even if
they decide to run everybody back and they're still really good,
it's everyone's probably looking at I don't think this is
fair to the Pacers, because the Pacers are really good,
but it's, well, why can't we be that team? And
the Cavs still exist, The Nicks will be back, but
there are gonna be teams that I think feel more
emboldened to do something, or I think that there'll be
teams that might feel like they're either on their last
leg with the current setup, maybe Minnesota going in on
a Kevin Durant trade if that happens, or teams like
the Grizzlies that have kind of just shown, ah, we're
getting kind of stale. If we're gonna have to reinvest in,
like the Big Three technically with the Jared Jackson Junior
a new contract coming up, maybe they pivot out of
that and that makes people available that we weren't thinking of.
And then finally there's a lack of cap space, but
free agents gotta go somewhere, and so I'm kind of
just wondering, you know, kind of that general surprise when
you see Gary Trent Junior take the minimum or Tias
Jones take the minimum.
Speaker 2: Are we in for more of those?
Speaker 1: Like that's called the medium size shocks too over the offseason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 3: I think I think the first thing you said, really
is it really is germane to this specific trade, because
my first thought after that I saw that the trade
had happened was like, man, Orlando, like they might think
they're pretty close, right, because this is And I think
the reason that that's not a crazy stance to take
is because the top of the East is looks shaky
and that has to just reset every team's risk calculus.
Like this maybe isn't a trade you make if Boston
is whole and isn't facing this teardown, you know what
I mean, Like because it okay, so this assures us
we're going to finish third in the conference, and then
we still.
Speaker 4: Have you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I think I think Boston specifically just not being in
the picture as a contender, and then you watch Cleveland
go sixty plus wins and then bow out like it did.
It's like, and now we're talking about a Garland trade,
or at least whispering about it, like it just feels
like a trade like this. You if you're Orlando, you
look at it and you say, like, all right, let's
do it. Let's shoot our shot. Why not, like, let's
go for it.
Speaker 1: And the final thing for me on this is I
remember people saying that the days, just like the Michale
Bridges trade was kind of the last draw. Oh, you're
not going to see teams give up all this first
round equity for players who are either like barely all
stars or not even all stars in this case. And
this was kind of a reminder that I think, if
teams believe they're even remotely close enough that know, those
types of really pick packed packages, how's that for some alliteration,
pickpack packages.
Speaker 2: Are still going to happen?
Speaker 1: Because this is just this is consecutive offseasons now where
at least four first round picks have been traded for
someone who has not only never made an All Star game,
but never may never make an All Star I mean
it's easier for being in the East, but it's not
like there's a ton of other talented guards there, and
so that's like people were worried about the Rudy Gobart trade,
who is a generational defender and just a perennial defensive
Player of the Year candidate, And now we're just seeing
these guys are really good. But are they even like
second best player on a championship team material The answer
for mckel bridges is clearly no. And yet they're still
just going for these massive hauls.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I think it's really interesting.
Speaker 3: We should get into the packages here and talk about
each side because there's there's quite a bit to unpack.
Speaker 2: Do you want to take us through the trade detail?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so here are the basics.
Speaker 3: Orlando gets Desmond Bain, who has four years and one
hundred and sixty three point two million left on his deal.
So talking forty million a year for I mean a
guy that had a rough season last year by his standards,
which was still nineteen six and five, and he shot
thirty nine percent from three. That's a down year, so
keep that in mind. In exchange, the Grizzlies get Cole
Anthony taken fifteen picks ahead of Desmond Bane in the
same draft. Who's got two years and twenty six point
two million left because he comes from Orlando, he has
a team option on the second year of that deal.
Speaker 4: They love their team there.
Speaker 3: And Tavius Caldwell Pope is also coming to Memphis two
years forty three point two million player option change up
there for twenty six twenty seven. I think probably the
most head turning aspect here. There are four first round
picks coming to Memphis number sixteen in this year's draft.
The Phoenix Suns twenty twenty six, correct, twenty twenty eight,
and twenty thirty unprotected from Orlando in a twenty twenty
nine first round swap with top two protection from Orlando
goes to Memphis. So essentially five first round assets if
you want to just do the quick and dirty version
of it, plus Cole Anthony plus KCP for Desmond Bane.
Speaker 4: What did you think just when.
Speaker 3: You see the first report of it, that it's this
man any first round assets going for Desmond Bane.
Speaker 4: I think you kind of alluded to it, But.
Speaker 3: Was your reaction like, oh my god, that's a lot,
or was it let's look at what kind of first
we're talking about so you.
Speaker 1: Have that reflexive reaction saying, oh my god, that's so much,
and then you're waiting for the protections to trickle out,
and then we find out that they're unprotected for the
most part because we know number sixteen.
Speaker 2: This year's number sixteen.
Speaker 1: By the way, one of my secondary reactions was, now,
I'm gonna have to go read that fucking twenty twenty
six draft pick language.
Speaker 2: It amounts to, I'm gonna try and simplify it to this.
Speaker 1: It's basically the second most favorable first round pick between Washington,
Orlando and Phoenix, and so that's like, pretty good. It's
probably gonna be Phoenix's pick is what will probably end
up being.
Speaker 2: So I was waiting.
Speaker 1: Basically, I was like, no, some of these on the
back end have to be protected, and as of now
it looks like they're not. And so then it goes,
all right, well, the Magic are planning on being pretty
damn good for a while. Then I'm assuming. But so
was that your reaction as well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt like a lot.
Speaker 3: And then what I fixated on was like, anytime there's
just straight up unprotected picks going, it's like, oh, that's
because those are the theoretical crown jewels of a deal, right,
it's the real hedge against the other team, where who knows,
maybe that's a top five pick, right, especially if you're
talking about twenty thirty, just like because the Magic could
cycle through like three different cores by then, just the
way they probably will if the reason yeah like indication, Yeah,
but so really okay, sixteen, sure that twenty six, which yeah,
you're not getting the Washington side of that, which would
have massive upside. Orlando will be better than Phoenix. So
if maybe that's in the range of ten to twenty
or something like that, maybe a little better. Who knows,
twenty eight and thirty, those are probably in the twenties,
you would assume if things go as Orlando expects them
to go. The twenty nine swap, all right, you know
that's another one that is right in the middle of
there might be in the twenties. So it's kind of like,
if Orlando's as good as it seems like it ought
to be, and definitely as good as it thinks it
will be with this new core, you're not getting a
player better than Desmond Bane.
Speaker 4: You wouldn't think, even though he did go.
Speaker 5: Really late, like he's had example to use, but you
know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 1: Grant, you might get five first round picks that come
ahead of where Desmond Bane was drafted.
Speaker 2: How is that not gonna win? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, But what I landed on was like, it's still
a lot. It's still a lot of like just in
terms of opportunity costs. You can use these first for
other stuff, right, like they're sweeteners there whatever, But I
don't think you could realistically expect to get a player
better than Desmond Bane with any of these picks in isolation.
Now together, I'm sure like Kevin Pelton or somebody did
the net value of them as X and it does
make sense or whatever, But it's like just in a vacuum.
Bain is like a guy that you if there was
a Desmond Bane in this year's draft, and you said,
like he's gonna have Desmond Baines first five years of
his career. He's going top three, right or like something
crazy like that. So from from Orlando's perspective, I can
see the law like we don't think these picks are
going to be any good. We're getting a guy who
and we should get into this like everybody that's been
haranguing us for not going and getting a great, high
volume three point shooter because we don't have one. We're
setting all these records for being the worst volume, worst
efficiency three point team.
Speaker 4: Like we got the guy, Like, shut up, everybody, Like,
now he's the heat.
Speaker 3: Now we've talked about you need a playmaker too, But
actually Bain is pretty darn good as an off guard
from in that respect. You know, five plus assists a
couple of years in a row increases pick and roll
efficiency and volume until the Grizzlies got all weird and
stop setting screens last year. Like this is pretty close
to the best you could do with the package they
sent out, unless you're talking about some super duper star
that says, send me to Orlando. Is that Do you
think that's a fair assessment? Like he's the guy, and
maybe none of these picks end up amounting to more
than like a seventh or eighth man on a good team, right,
Like that's that's kind of where I landed.
Speaker 2: I think I'm shocker. We agree, that's a surprise for
everyone who listens to this.
Speaker 1: The other thing to consider here too, or a couple
things this contract that he's on never gonna be twenty
five percent of the salary cap and it runs through
his age thirty seven thirty thirty season. Sorry, that's just
that's not even the end of his prime. So like
that's kind of perfect alignment. I mean, we'll get into
the expenses of it long term in a second. The
other thing, too, is when you mentioned this is the
best guy you could have done, I think it's also
really the best you could have done when you're looking
at who the magic favor And so we've mentioned Anthony
Simons how many times for Orlando. He is really bad
on the defensive end. Desmond Bain is not. And in
this system, he's probably gonna be like because you take
an average defender and you just PLoP him into what
Orlando's able to do with Jollen Suggs and Franz and
even Pallo their bigs. Jonathan Isaac is there, Anthony Black
is there. He's probably someone's gonna make the case that
he should be all defense next, Like that's the Yeah,
those are the types of lineups he will be within.
And the final thing is too, just to maybe like
tidy up what you were saying about the picks, if
you just set the over under on the number of
picks that land in the top fifteen that they sent out,
including the swap. I would set it at point five,
and I like, maybe you take the over, but if
you said it at one point five, I'm taking me under.
Like to me, it seems like this might be a
one top fifteen selection somewhere, and it could be next
year depending on what Phoenix does, although they don't have
an incentive to be bad unless they control their own pick,
so probably not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think that's right. You top fifteen is
a great cutoff, Like I don't. I don't think that's likely.
The other thing about Bain and you hit it like
he fits, he fits what Orlando like you're not Anthony
Simons would have amounted to a concession in some ways
because he just it's like, oh, you can handle having
Simons in your starting or closing lineup or whatever because
you have Jalen Suggs and this defensive infrastructure like it, it'll.
Speaker 4: Cover for him like Bain. That's not.
Speaker 3: Bain is a good defender and I think will look
even better. Like you said, also, and I mean this
comp as a compliment. He's kind of an asshole, Like
he's a competitive asshole, and I think Orlando that's like
Orlando's type, like they're they're very into that. And so
from like a skill standpoint and just like a makeup standpoint,
he's kind of perfect. And so yeah, just and we're
not even talking about the shooting, which is like he's
a forty one.
Speaker 5: Percent three point shooter for his career and he.
Speaker 3: Gets him up like he's that that's gonna cure what
ails the magic.
Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, And by the way, I
think it's disingenuous when people frame it like, oh, the
Lakers only gave up one first round pick for Luca
and bang got like Anthony Davis is worth like five
first we don't support that trade. But the other part
of the framing that I don't like kcp's contract had
become a net negative and so that's part of the
value that So maybe you could get Desmond Bane if
you were sending out straight expiring salary, but I don't
even know if there'd be a team. And I'm not
trying to insult clan here. Is someone just taking coll
Anthony into their mid level exception? I don't know. Maybe,
so I think part of the value is the players
you were sending out. Yeah, CACP defended at an all
defense level last year and he will help Memphis there,
but he was outside the confines of having Nicoho Jochic.
He didn't look too great in Orlando last year. So
you were paying in part to get off that deal.
But we need to get into the actual impact for
the Magic, which that's the potential that could make it
all worth it. You mentioned a bunch of the Baynes stuff.
We all need to appreciate just how dire the Magic
were in need of offense and have been for some time.
They've not been a top fifteen offense grant since twenty twelve,
when Dwight Howard was on the team. They have not
been outside the bottom ten in offensive efficiency since twenty seventeen.
Last year they were twenty sixth in points per possession,
twenty seventh in the half court twenty second and two
point percentage, dead last in three point percentage, and dead
last in their shooting percentage on wide open jumpers. So
ten plus feed out that is a functional atrocity, and
it wasn't it spilled over into quote unquote their core
lineups when Sugs Franz and Paalo were on the floor,
the Magic's offense was in the twenty first percentile. You
already mentioned Bain's numbers over the past four years, though
he's clearing twenty points and four asists while hitting forty
plus percent of his threes. There's only one other player
who has done that during the same span while matching
Desmond Baines's three point volume.
Speaker 2: Would you care to guess who it is?
Speaker 1: I bet you it's just stef And so, no, he's
not Steph but like the Magic have no gravity away
from the ball on this team. And he's also someone
who last year he actually took more off the dribble
threes than off the catch threes. And now you're inserting
him into an offense where you're probably still gonna need
him to do that, like hit those off the dribble
jumpers at points, but you don't need to do it
nearly as much. So he is just like he If
you wanted to get someone who had some on ball
creation but knew how to exist away from the ball
and wasn't gonna hurt your defense in any way, this
is like the perfect fit. And I think there unless
you have anything to add on why it's good. The
only other thing to talk about would be the okay,
they're moving forward without a real floor general type at
least as of now, and this feels like a big
bet on one you mentioned. Suggs is playmaking. He's improved
a lot coming out of drives. He's run a ton
of pick and rolls over the past couple of years,
So there's that, but it also just feels like a
bet that you think Gell and Suggs can do a
lot of that too moving forward.
Speaker 3: I think it's a bet on Paolo improving as a playmaker,
which I'm happy to take that on same thing, like
the the idea of the magic there's always been so
intriguing is the amount of playmaking they can get from
their forwards, and that like that partly allows Suggs to
be the best version of himself because he's not just
a natural ten assistic game guy. So I think Bain
adds to that because Suggs is okay and getting better
at that stuff, and Bain has been very good for
his position at that stuff. The other thing too, just
to sort of contrast the Bain acquisition with what it
might have otherwise been, just to take Simons as an example,
because that's just the guy we've won't shut up about,
or if it had been like Malik Monk or whatever,
like that player type, like for where Orlando wants to go,
which I think we can discern pretty clearly from a
trade like this, which is to the top of the
conference and and several playoff rounds deep into the postseason.
Simons is a guy that might get played off the
floor against good matchups, and same thing for someone like Monk.
Desmond Baine is not that guy. You don't attack Desmond
Bane with your If you attack Desmond Bane with your
number one scoring option, there's maybe a couple guys where
you're like, oh, this is untenable. We have to do something,
you know, strategically different to a double him or whatever
or switch or hot You're not hiding Desmond Baane on defense. Ever,
like Kyle Lowry, he's a bigger Kyle Lowry, right, So
that that's like you have to view this acquisition. I
think even if you're saying still this not that you're
saying this, but I'm sure there are people that like
he's just not worth it.
Speaker 4: It's like for where Orlando wants.
Speaker 3: To go the pool of guys that they could have
put into this slot is not that big.
Speaker 4: Simons isn't in that pool.
Speaker 3: If you're like, we need a guy we can put
on the floor at the end of the Eastern Conference
Finals that the other team not going at and like
and Baine is that guy, And I don't know who
else would even that's even like pipe dream available would
have would have fit that description well.
Speaker 1: And if this was the cost of Baine, some of
the names that we were throwing out, like a LaMelo
Ball for this team, I think probably would have been
a better fit. But if this is what a cost
to get Desmond Baine, I think LaMelo Ball is probably
like on a similar level, but you're probably paying more
to get LaMelo Ball in that instance.
Speaker 2: So He's he.
Speaker 3: Changes, He changes more about how you operate on both
ends than Bain does, and like you probably do want
to change how you operate offensively, but you know what
I mean, Like he Bain just like slots right into
whatever KCP was doing and is like you're getting three
x what you got from that guy.
Speaker 4: Like that's that feels like just such a value add.
Speaker 1: And I think to what get's tricky and This is
maybe where you mentioned it was it's like in Desmond
Baane for what they gave up, it's in line with
the value he's providing how much he helps. But you
said the phrase opportunity cost. That's probably where you could
start to feel uncomfortable, because I think Bain helps this
team out a lot, And if you told me as
constructed they went and won the East last year, I.
Speaker 2: Would not be shocked.
Speaker 1: But like you're still have a dearth of shooting, and
you don't necessarily if you want like a floor general
type who can come in and manage the game. There
aren't least questions there. Do you think Sugs or Anthony Black?
We know Apallo can do and Franz can do. In
that regard, you could run some stuff through Wendell Carter
Junior and Bane himself. So yeah, you can approximate all that,
but those are still questions. You just now don't have
the assets or the flexibility to address them.
Speaker 2: At it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to beat a super high level but
like sort of just forget about the floor general stuff.
This team still needs shooters, Like it just can't beat
Desmond Bayne coming in here is the only guy who's
taking like seven three point attempts per game and knocking
them down at a better than league average clip. How
do you go about getting like, are you just betting
on Franz Vagner's jumpers going to improve rather than regress
like it has the past couple of years, Like because
in theory KCP and Cole Anthony were like two of
your more like they weren't reliable, especially Casey P. But
in theory they're supposed to be like some of.
Speaker 2: Your better shooters.
Speaker 1: This is a clear upbrand want to make that clear,
But I don't think you can just by getting Desmond
Bane like that. To me, that doesn't turn you into
a top ten offense. Maybe your core lineup ends up
producing at that level, but overall there's still some kind
of holes to pick at.
Speaker 4: That's definitely true.
Speaker 3: And and to now, because a lot of these your
your pick equities out out of the picture. You know,
if if it turns out that this is not enough,
then you have to start thinking about, like what's the
market for Anthony Black. You know, let's let's peel off
a defense first, playmaking guard that we like and that
showed improvement. Let's I mean Willy call Willie call out
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Well, Carter Junior's some empty, empty gym threes back in
his day, so maybe they signed him.
Speaker 3: You need you need Wendel Carter Junior to be like
the thirty seven percent guy who, by the way, I
was looking at his numbers today and prep for this,
Like the difference between a twenty five year old Miles
Turner and uh, Wendell Carter Junior is not that big,
Like the shop blocking's different. But Carter Junior was part
of just you know, Orlando's defense. Shocker was very good
with him on the floor. It's like eightieth percentile points
all out p one hundred when Suggs was out there
with him.
Speaker 4: It was in the nineties. And if there's any like.
Speaker 3: Return to form in terms of three point percentage and
you get that volume from him up to like four
or five a game, you got a pretty good Miles
Turner clone, just albeit without the shop blocking. And yeah, like,
can Franz be this bad? Is that possible? Is he
really gonna be like a high twenties, low thirties three
point guy? I mean there's enough, like there's enough if
it breaks this way for Orlando that you might top
ten offense is a high bar, but like you might
get enough supplementary three point shooting where it's it's not
six weeks into next season and it's like, god damn it,
they're twenty eighth and three point percentage. You can you know, like,
I don't feel like that's likely if they don't add
anybody else. There's enough upside with some of these players
that I think, like maybe Jeded Howard shows up.
Speaker 4: I don't know, there's a they have.
Speaker 2: To play him first.
Speaker 1: And that comes back to that's why Bain works, because
you know he'll help you on defense where Jet Howard
will not, and the Magics just seem completely I mean,
if you were willing to put Jet Howard Black or
Tristan da Silva on the table, you still have some
contracts to move around. I'd like, you can't get a
Cam Johnson, who would be like even more intriguing on
this team now, probably, but that's still enough to get
you somebody. I don't know who that's like when you're
kind of looking at shooters, I don't know who that
somebody is, but I don't and I'm not saying like
maybe it's just signing, Like do they get a Sam
Merrill in free agency or something still like to pay,
they probably wouldn't play Sam Merril. So I don't know
what I'm saying. He's atll fightst here on defense than
Jet Howard. I wanted to ask you this before we
get into the Grizzlies, and this is more tied to
the Magic, but it's an overarching, just NBA question.
Speaker 2: It does feel.
Speaker 1: Like NBA teams have decided, we know that our windows
are gonna be shorter, and we're gonna act like it.
And I think some people would frame this from memphisis
perspective that look what the era of Aprons did to them,
And I think this was more about no, like they
knew they were stale and there just wasn't a clear
pathway to them to get better.
Speaker 2: And we'll get into them.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like they're getting ready for a rebuild
or anything, just that they're trying to change up the
top of their roster and keep themselves leaner. But in
the Magic's case, they're currently sitting thirteen point five million
dollars into the tax that's six point seven million into
the first Apron and about five point two million dollars
below the second Apron now because they have those expensive
team expensive they've team options worth like it's almost twenty
million or over twenty million on Gary Harris or Mo Wagner.
They can get out of the tax this year if
they want to delay the repeater clock. But the point
is Palo's going to sign a five year MAX extension.
It will be either worth two hundred and forty six
point seven million, or if he gets the language that
Franz did, it could be worth up to two hundred
and ninety six if he makes all MBA. They project
next year to be a second Apron team even if
Palo is on that twenty five percent max, and that's
the calculations include eleven players, including Jonathan Isaac who's non
guarant and then just minimums. So like they're going to
be straddling a tight line no matter what happens. And
so I would sit here and say maybe next year
they stomach it, they go, they go through the second Apron,
or find a way to duck it just a little bit.
But like by twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty eight, I'm
not betting on all four of Jael and Suggs, Paulo
Bank Carol Franz Wagner and Desmond Baine being on this team,
and I think the Magic know that as well. And
so do you think there's anything to the effect of that. Yeah,
we've seen some teams. We're gonna see it with Phoenix,
We're gonna see it with Boston this summer to wear.
And we saw it with the Clippers and the Nuggets
last summer, who didn't even enter the second apron.
Speaker 2: That is gonna be.
Speaker 1: Taboo for some teams completely. And there's gonna be some
teams that are like, we'll stomach it for a year.
Is it gonna happen for multiple years? We have to
wait and see. And so I'm just wondering if NBA
teams are kind of like entering not completely fuck it
mode because Bain's a really good player, but they're probably
looking at it and saying, well, the risk is either
not being good enough or maybe we're good enough for
two years and we just have to figure route how
to cut salary and someone's gonna have to go.
Speaker 3: Then, Yeah, I think that is a good read on it.
I hesitate to say that this is like a clear
sign of the second that window seems cracked open you
like if whether and really it's like how ready is
Bancaro to be the best guy on a team that
you know makes the conference finals or whatever, like, because
you're always going to orient your window around how how
good is your best guy?
Speaker 4: Like can he just be the best play?
Speaker 3: You know? It's reductive, But I think I think that
still is a thing, and I think it means like
there's counter examples too, right, Like I don't know, like
the Rockets seem to be operating slightly more deliberately, uh,
but they they don't have like two guys on you
about to be on you know, rookie thirty percent maxes
or whatever, or to at least still pair of twenty five's.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Indiana's built weirdly and differently, like they're they're not quite
in this same boat.
Speaker 4: So like I'm I am, I hesitate.
Speaker 3: To say that, like this trade is just proof positive
that the second the windows open you just make the
big five five first round asset trade and.
Speaker 4: Go for it.
Speaker 3: I do think it shows that teams need to be
more willing to jump at the opportunity and like not
quite like say, we'll worry about three years from now,
three years from now, but it does feel like you
need to be a little more finely calibrated and like
when are we going, and then when we're going, we're
gonna really make this, you know, the big trade to
go as opposed to like a more deliberate thing or
just this assumption that like Oklahoma City may run into
this honestly, like although they've got the picks to get
off of anything they want to, but like you don't
get the rookie scale bone, you know, benefit forever, like
the just the you know, the first contract.
Speaker 4: Maybe this, maybe this is what it is.
Speaker 3: Once you've got a guy that feels like a core
piece on his you know, fun Max, you got to
start making some decisions because once because there'll be a
second one soon enough.
Speaker 4: And when you've got to it's like.
Speaker 5: This is either either this is the group where it.
Speaker 3: Isn't and you don't get forever to figure that out.
So yeah, I think that's a good read on it.
I just I hesitate to make any like proclamations about
like wow, teams should operate because I still don't know.
I don't I don't know what the trend's gonna be.
Speaker 1: I think they're still trying to figure it out, and
I think Houston's going I think this the Magic is
gonna be an interesting case study for what is the
stomach then unless this for some reason doesn't pan out,
But I think that they're just going to be a
fantastic team as the end result.
Speaker 2: But it's they kind.
Speaker 1: Of they paid Sugs, they paid Wagner, and now they're
about to pay Bank Carol. That's when they made the decision,
and like the Rockets are kind of on a similar
trajectory to where it's they paid Shangoon, they paid Green.
Neither got as much as h Sugs or Franz Wagner.
Of course, like now Tari Easan and Jabari Smith junior
extension eligible, so they're gonna be reconciling with kind of
the same thing is that if you build through the draft,
maybe you end up with a bunch of like the
Magic were more top heavy with it, where no one's
worried about Jet Howard attrition to Silver Anthony Black getting
this type of money. But the Rockets are almost facing
like a worse conundrum because so many of their youngsters
are considered higher end. I just think it's going to
be fascinating because we've spent so much time, Well, how
long are team's gonna spend into the second aprin or
how hard is it for them to navigate it once
they're there? And this trade made me think, which I
just applaud, like seeing the magic go for it, I
will say it's over I think it's overdue, but like
if this was the movie you're waiting on, I kind
of get it. But like now I'm kind of thinking,
are teams just not expecting to And I know you
can never really plan like four and five years out
like everyone said, but now you're getting to a point
where it feel like you can't even plan more than
two years out if that and this trade, to me,
I'm not I for I won't use the word proclamation,
I'm not gonna declare it, but to me, it does
suggest that teams are going to operate on these more urgent,
finite windows and then you're gonna it's not even just
a matter of figuring out the rest later, but there's
going to be some major cost cutting or upheaval within
a very short amount of time.
Speaker 3: I think I think that's a perfect transition to start
talking about the Memphis side of this, because I think
the other side of what you're talking about with the
short windows is I think teams are gonna pull the
ripcord when the three guys that they decided they thought
were the core pieces of a contender do not appear
to be that. And that's how you get Desmond Baine
being traded from a team that was, like the Grizzlies
had very high playoff hopes for the last several years,
like injuries were a factor, and then the jaw stuff
was a factor, but like it was Bain Morant and
Triple J and now Bain's gone and and I think
the Grizzlies are an example of teams that are like, well,
we're not gonna pay this much for this team, especially
when you get an offer like they got, but they're
maybe that's maybe that's what tells on It is like
when you have a group that isn't good enough that
you thought was, you better move quickly to sort of
recreate some flexibility because you can't, especially in a mid
or small market, just keep going forward with your same
core three expensive guys and expect to do anything. So so, yeah,
the Grizzlies here, the question is where are they going?
Speaker 4: This is like.
Speaker 2: You can, I can I actually ask you.
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of people just assume that it
meant that they were going to tear it down, And
my initial reaction, like A, was, oh, now, they're kind
of built to just do anything. If they want to
tear it down shore, if they kind of want to
sit and conserve and wait for the next guy to
become available, they have the assets for that.
Speaker 2: Or then the assets to do that right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's like I just I looked at it
as a trade rooted in what you just said about
all three guys, like seeing their price points elevated and
their core probably stay together longer than it should have
because of how the Jaron Jackson Junior extension shook out
as well.
Speaker 3: That's true, No, I I think really the the first
point to keep in mind is like when someone comes
with an offer of five first round assets, and like
we just talked through, like you can put an asterisk
next to that, it's they're there's not like any guaranteed
top ten picks in there, but five first round assets
and a couple of manageable contracts, one of which as
a team option for your third best guy that's coming
off a down year that you're not really sure is good,
you know, like you just say yes and and so yeah, No,
I don't think this was something that I wasn't immediately like,
oh my god, they're gonna trade Jawn now, like which
I think you saw a little bit of out there.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: It just this puts them in a position to either
go get someone that they could like could be your
bane replacement, or they're just they're just more flexible like that.
That just they have these assets, they can remake the
team however they want. I don't view it as like
a clear like oh, the needle's pointing one way or
the other, like and we can't even it's it's like
it's so obvious.
Speaker 4: I don't I don't see it that way at all.
Speaker 1: What becomes interesting about that, though, is so then what
do we expect them to do? Is it just to
kind of not that they would view twenty twenty six
as a gap year, but is it just they're kind
of in weight and C mode and it's well, let's
maybe this team. I probably wouldn't pick them. I haven't
gone through it, so this is off the cuff. I
don't think they'd be as currently constructed a top six
team in the Western Conference, But do.
Speaker 2: You like there?
Speaker 1: So their cap space is lowered and we're gonna get
into Jaron Jackson Junior separately, but their cap space is lowered,
so they're still gonna have let's assume they use their
cap space on triple J at some point they'll have
that eight point eight million dollar room exception so they
can get better. And it still feels like they would
need a wing. But like KCP is gonna help, like
his he makes Scottie Pippen juniors and Jalen Wells' lives
a lot easier on the defensive end now, But like,
what do you view this team as? I guess it's
a twofold question. If you're the Grizzlies, how are you
approaching the rest of the offseason? Then what is it
you look at this roster and think that it still needs.
Speaker 3: I think you have to say they're a little bit
worse on paper, although they have with Anthony specifically, they've
kind of given themselves a little more jaw insurance if
there's another injury, like where it's just it's no longer
because you lose Baine, you are going to need someone
to do a little bit more playmaking Anthony's not like
a clear starter in that regard, but he can do it.
And then having KCP there with Jalen Wells Scotty Pippen Jr.
Like there is the little the backboard depth is good enough.
Now I think, I just I don't know what you need.
Like I guess they still need that bigger wing so
that like Jalen Wells or KCP isn't guarding like the
six eight and six' nine like combo.
Speaker 4: FORWARDS i don't.
Speaker 3: KNOW i, guess, like, yeah bigger wing, Probably and then
if they lose ALL, dama WHICH i guess is a,
POSSIBILITY i don't want to jump too far, ahead then
maybe you're gonna need some.
Speaker 4: More front court. Shooting edie's gonna be out.
Speaker 3: Too So i'm not sure they're in a position where it's, like,
oh they need this type of. Player they may just
need to kind of see how the offseason plays out
and maybe even take some of these assets into the
year and assess, it you, Know November, december see where they're.
AT i do think like that six to nine range
in The west feels kind of like where we're.
Speaker 4: At unless they unless, this we're dead.
Speaker 3: Wrong and this was a precursor they are gonna like
dump some more salaries or do something crazy like.
Speaker 1: That, well, yeah it does feel like they're caught in
the in, between but you could have argued that they
were caught there to begin, with and at least now
you've replenished your. Draft well you haven't, Replenished you've just
like now you're teaming with it because you have all
your picks moving forward except for this, year and that's
kind of a wash with getting the number sixteen. Pick
SO i think they're leaning into being caught in the
in between for the intern and that this IS i
think if there's an, opportunity like If Jalen, BROWN i
know he's like makes so much, money if The celtics
decide to trade, him like maybe that's someone That memphis
THAT i didn't look at this and, say, oh they
could get involved In katie.
Speaker 2: Sweepstakes BUT i don't think they.
Speaker 1: Will MAYBE i think they're just biding their time now
to see what's out there and that they will make
another big swing by the end of next. OFFSEASON i
don't think they made it with the intent of we
have to do that by this. Year maybe they'll be
more once they have a maybe they want to see
what this team looks, like and then you make that
move at the, deadline because what other team is going
to be in a position to throw around so many
first round picks at that.
Speaker 3: Point, well and specifically you just brought this into my,
head like you, know the the power, players like the
asset rich teams tend to be like Your brooklyn's and Your.
Utah's The Oklahoma city is the. Exception but there just
aren't that many teams where The grizzlies are that also
can now turn around and, say like we can kind
of compete pick wise and like movable contract, wise BECAUSE
i do think BOTH kcp and more So Cole, anthony
like those are kind of numbers you like to have
if you're trying to match salary and you have the
picks now to make it so that those can just
be figures on a sheet as opposed to like somebody
really WANTS kcp Or Cole anthony like they they're a
team now that feels like it's not a unique, position
but it's sort of rare with the way the assets
are kind of spread around the. League like a pretty
good team with a very good war chest of picks
and young guys and movable contracts like that's that's a
good place to.
Speaker 4: BE i.
Speaker 3: Think, SO i think you're right, that like down the,
line whether it's next summer or even at this year's,
Deadline memphis is someone you would want to watch for
two because they just will be positioned to be, like
we're one guy away from being top four in The
west or, so you, know something like, that and we
can act on.
Speaker 1: THAT i think what's gonna be telltale of what they're
planning on, doing maybe not necessarily this, offseason but within
the short. Term Jared Jackson junior and so his the
options now after this trade can be laid out as.
Such so we'll start here with their current cap, space
was there around like four and a half.
Speaker 2: Million they can.
Speaker 1: Bump his salary up next season to twenty eight million
about and then extend him for four years one hundred
and seventy five point six million. Dollars previously that number
was like one to ninety when they had seven million
dollars in cap.
Speaker 2: Space would you agree that that's.
Speaker 1: That's not enough to get him to sign the renegotiating, extend.
Speaker 3: Right i'd be pretty surprised just he's he's close to
like a max, GUY i, think or maybe he just
is a max.
Speaker 4: Guy what a?
Speaker 1: Segue so they could just wait next year for unrestricted free,
agency at which time his four year max from The
grizzlies would be two hundred and twenty eight point six,
million or his five year max would be two hundred
and ninety six million. DOLLARS a max from another team
would be capped at four years and two hundred and
nineteen point four million. DOLLARS i think there's a part
of me that if you just know he wants to
be there and like he'll give you the last, chance
like right of, REFUSAL i would almost prefer that way
just to see how this season plays. Out but he's
an unrestricted free, agent so we could just. Leave AND
i think that's. Why to create more cap space route
is what Reporting there's been reporting From Mark, Stein Jake
fisher and others that suggest they're gonna create even more cap.
Space so his max, SALARY i wanted to ask, you
this is forty six point four million dollars for next.
Season he is twenty three point four million.
Speaker 2: Dollars shy of?
Speaker 1: That what is like they Have Cole anthony they HAVE,
kcp maybe you can compensate a team to take On
john Conschar and like all of a, sudden you're at
like ten million bucks in cap, Space, like what is
the number that you want to Extend Jaron Jackson junior off?
Of is it, like let's just say they can create
to give him thirty five million next? Year is that
the extension then becomes what would he be at over
the that four year extension then becomes two hundred and
nineteen point million?
Speaker 2: Dollars so is that?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Okay so it's right there on the four year it's
almost exactly down to the dollar of the four years another?
Speaker 4: Team so which is which segue by?
Speaker 3: YOU i was just gonna, say if all this was
part of a plan to create enough cap space to
get The jackson extension done, now which it's not enough,
Yet like as you, said that would have to be
a twenty three ish million uh trimmed to get. THERE
i don't LIKE i like the trade less if it
was done with an eye toward let's let's make sure
we lock him down. Now BECAUSE i feel pretty good
As memphis knowing THAT i can just wait until he
hits unrestricted free agency and Then i'll DO i mentioned
THAT i.
Speaker 4: Forget who we were talking.
Speaker 3: About it's Like i'll do The siakam thing In indiana
where it's, like ALL i know IS i can beat
any team's four year, offer and SO i can guarantee
THAT i will be able to offer him. More and
IF i really got to go to that fifth, year
Then i'll do. It but, like it's not restricted free agency,
leverage but it is knowing you can make the best. Offer,
Uh and So i'm. WAITING i don't like the idea
that this was All, like you, know if a significant
part of The bain trade was so that we could
clear cap space to just lock In jackson at a big,
Number now does that make? Sense, like and what do
you think about? That do you would you? Wait or
would you would you be making cuts to do?
Speaker 4: It?
Speaker 2: Now i'm.
Speaker 1: Not, look if someone's gonna just Take John, conchard it
takes a second round pick and you can get, like
but you're also like not not nuking your, flexibility but
you are adding money onto your immediate bottom line that
you don't have. To and, YES i THINK i want
players to get paid as much as they. Can but,
like if you're a. Team you have to prioritize some
semblance of flexibility, here so to now move assets to
pay a player that's already on your. Team we didn't
like it when The kings did it With Domanta sabonis
and Garr Jackson.
Speaker 2: Junior pro is a more valuable player in TODAY'S. NBA i,
Mean Demonic sabons are really. Good that's just shots.
Speaker 1: Fire But i'm NOT i don't like if you can
do it, now like if he's gonna sign for four
the here's why you would do.
Speaker 2: It i'm stumbling.
Speaker 1: Here if if he's gonna, say if bumping him up
now gets him below market over the entirety of his,
extension so like the NUMBER i just laid, Out, No
i'm not creating an additional ten million dollars in cap
space so That Jared Jackson junior can sign a four.
Speaker 2: Year two hundred and twenty million dollar.
Speaker 1: Extension If Jared Jackson junior wants to sign like a
one hundred and ninety million dollar like he was, before like,
Yeah i'll go create the extra cap space to do, it.
Speaker 2: Or even a two hundred million dollar.
Speaker 1: One AND i know that you, Know, oh it's all
an average of like five million bucks a. Season you're
saving that fucking, matters like when you're dealing with these
thin margins in the. Apron so that's what would make
me BECAUSE i don't think it would cost a ton
to give a, team let's, say Call anthony and then
take back a smaller, salary or just Put john conchar
into some, teams you, know mid level part of their
mid level. Exception SO i would consider. That but even
if you're creating that additional cap, Space i'm not giving
it all To Jared Jackson junior just so THEN i
can pay him WHEN i could just give him next.
Offseason so IT'S i get the logic of the renegotiate and,
extent and it was like kind of. Venient what Was,
yeah what is seven million bucks in cap space gonna
do to? You that's less than the room exception that
you could still. Use but once you start getting into
the habit of, well now we're gonna offload other stuff
to drum that. Up if that was part of the calculus,
HERE i don't love. IT i would actually like this
trade more if they don't do, anything or if they're
Using John contra and Col anthy like they're attaching stuff
to get more players in here and then just Paying
Jaron Jackson junior next summer when he's actually a free.
Speaker 4: Agent that's the. MOVE i think that has to be the, move.
Speaker 3: Because, like it just feels like you're you're giving up
talent to pay more for the talent you currently have
before you have to like that if if that's you,
know if the cap space route and the trimming assets
to get there is the, Plan like that just doesn't
doesn't feel like good business to.
Speaker 2: Me, no so doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it defeat the entire motif of us saying they did.
This they could be like malleable moving, forward and then
they're gonna begin that error by like constraining their theirselves
more than they have.
Speaker 4: To that's why you can't do. It that's that's. Why that's.
Speaker 1: It do you have anything else on this trade that
you want to?
Speaker 2: Fire and he takes off before we Skidadle.
Speaker 3: NO i just think it's really good For, orlando AND
i think there's a lot of upside For. Memphis it's
it's kind of boring to, say LIKE i kind of
like it for both.
Speaker 4: Sides it makes sense to.
Speaker 3: ME i would just let's end where we, began which is, saying,
Uh shops was.
Speaker 4: Good, Yeah shops was. Right this is the most craziest.
Speaker 3: Thing, uh you just. Can't you can't predict what's gonna.
Happen we just it's it's, insane how many fake trades and,
like what would so and so do?
Speaker 4: This or what do you think about this?
Speaker 5: Guy we just never once, had as far AS i,
know Had bane To.
Speaker 4: Orlando, well, so to.
Speaker 1: Be fair The orlando side of, IT i think anyone
could have, suggested, like, Oh baine's a great. FIT i
really didn't expect The magic to have these four expensive
players on their, books even if it's only a, theory
Until powell's extension kicked. In so that's WHY i NEVER
i may have come up with A LaMelo ball trade
for them at some, point BUT i probably had them
Trading jail And sugs or, something and so if they
would have made a move like, THIS i almost would
have assumed That sugs or maybe less Likely wagner would
have been out going.
Speaker 2: Money SO i applaud.
Speaker 1: THEM i think it took them too long to address
the offensive, stuff BUT i applaud them as a non glamour,
market although an underrated.
Speaker 2: Market if you want to play.
Speaker 1: THERE i applaud them for like doing, this because, yeah
they're gonna have to make Some they're going to make
some tough decisions down the, line BUT i think this
at least shows for the next two, years, like, yeah
they're gonna be like pretty, expensive maybe more than they
typically would have been.
Speaker 4: Comfortable and if you're trying to be, good you're gonna be.
Expensive so and, these.
Speaker 1: By the, way these are the two years to do,
IT i would, argue because that's WHY i also like
them ducking the tacks this year to, like you, know
keep the repeater clock from. STARTING i don't even know
how much value there is because these are the two
years to just go for, it because The celtics a gap,
year and then after that Is giannis still on The,
bucks and then Also Jason tatum's coming. Back are we
just gonna assume That Jason tatum Is Jason tatum in
that first year there might be a feeling out season For.
Boston so these are the two years we're talking about
this short. Window these are the two years in The
east to really go for.
Speaker 3: It, yep and kudos to The, magic although as you,
said like maybe maybe pull this off a little.
Speaker 4: Sooner thanks everybody for, listening for, watching and remember rate, review.
Speaker 3: Subscribe if you're watching this on, YouTube let us know
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Speaker 4: Ideas BECAUSE i didn't see it, coming join our discord
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Speaker 3: That YouTube and podcast subscription Shouts franklant looking at, Apologies
jared an