Speaker 1: Welcome, dear listener, and thanks for joining us. I'm and
Speaker 1: I'm Stephen.
Speaker 2: And this is a podcast all about the weird and
Speaker 2: wonderful world of the dark comedy anthology series Inside number nine.
Speaker 1: On each episode, we'll be diving into another one of
Speaker 1: Steve Pemberton and Reese Sheresmith's twisted tales, putting it under
Speaker 1: a lens and examining it within an inch of its life.
Speaker 2: So make yourself comfortable, grab a cup of tea, and
Speaker 2: join us for the ninth degree.
Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, how.
Speaker 2: Are you doing?
Speaker 1: Yes, I am okay.
Speaker 2: Set them back into school?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it's quite a short half term
Speaker 1: this one, because we're off again in a few weeks,
Speaker 1: so nice. Then it's a long old stretch till the
Speaker 1: summer after that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm enjoying the all the bank holidays. I keep
Speaker 2: booking the odd day off, so I've not worked a
Speaker 2: four week in I don't know how long, just all
Speaker 2: these Forday weeks. I would quite like that to be
Speaker 2: a permanent fixture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a nice time of year for that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. Mm AnyWho, So we're here this week for
Speaker 1: is it episode five? Yes?
Speaker 2: Five?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting one I.
Speaker 2: Hope to learn things. This is one that I don't
Speaker 2: know as much about, so I don't I feel I
Speaker 2: have missed out on a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: You mentioned last week the theater wasn't really your sphere
Speaker 1: as much.
Speaker 2: Well, I really enjoyed the theater. I just don't have
Speaker 2: any experience of the backside.
Speaker 1: I'm keeping that in.
Speaker 2: I have much experience with the backstage side of theater.
Speaker 2: So yeah, or I'm not really all that well versed
Speaker 2: in Shakespeare to be honest. No, yeah, that really didn't
Speaker 2: really do a lot of it at school.
Speaker 1: Okay, did you know?
Speaker 2: I mean, you do Macbeth, so I do obviously know
Speaker 2: the story. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 2: if I've missed out on a lot of like their references.
Speaker 1: And yeah, well I won't pretend that I'm an expert
Speaker 1: in my Beth at all, but it is. I think
Speaker 1: it's a good one. It's the one that a lot
Speaker 1: of people, most people probably have done at school because
Speaker 1: it's a good story and it's a good one that
Speaker 1: kids can kind of get into. In fact, I work
Speaker 1: in year six in primary and we do it in
Speaker 1: year six, so I really, well, they don't actually do
Speaker 1: the Shakespeare text, but they look in the story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is good. We have a big debate about who
Speaker 1: do they think is most to blame for all the deaths?
Speaker 1: Would it be Macbeth, Lady Macbeth or the witches? Yeah,
Speaker 1: last time we did it, everyone said the witches, which
Speaker 1: I found really interesting because I'm like, for me, it's
Speaker 1: Macbeth because he's the one that did most of the killing, Like,
Speaker 1: no one forced him to do anything.
Speaker 2: No, but would you have done it if it weren't
Speaker 2: for the prophecies and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but just this is what I said to
Speaker 1: the kids. I was like, if someone said to you,
Speaker 1: like you could be you know, rich and famous if
Speaker 1: you kill this person and then you go and kill
Speaker 1: that person, is that your fault for killing the person
Speaker 1: or therefore for telling you to do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but if a mystic witch told me to do it.
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing. Personally, I don't think they are
Speaker 1: real witches. I think they're just round the old.
Speaker 2: Women nothing better to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. But anyway, Yes, what I did like about
Speaker 1: this episode is that, like, you don't have to have
Speaker 1: an in depth knowledge of Macbeth, but true, just a
Speaker 1: surface level understanding of it sets you up to kind
Speaker 1: of see the parallels. I feel like it sort of
Speaker 1: pays lip service to the story of Macbeth without following
Speaker 1: it to the letter.
Speaker 2: No, definitely, And I don't know the story well enough
Speaker 2: to get exactly how close it is to everything, But
Speaker 2: I do appreciate that it's sort of the same sort
Speaker 2: of idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that's all it is, to
Speaker 1: be honest, I don't think there's much sort of detail
Speaker 1: following the story. I think it's just a general sense of,
Speaker 1: you know, Jim, the understudy could achieve greatness if he
Speaker 1: takes this opportunity to you know, and the fiance in
Speaker 1: this case, who stands in as Lady Macbeth sort of
Speaker 1: egging him on. And I think what's quite good is
Speaker 1: how everyone knows that story and knows that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's her who's sort of pushing him and all this
Speaker 1: and that, and then actually they whipped that out from
Speaker 1: under your feet, and that it turns out it wasn't her. No,
Speaker 1: in the end, Well, I say that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you think it's a good thing or.
Speaker 2: I really liked I No, I did like that twist
Speaker 2: to it, okay, but yeah, I completely forgot. Well, no,
Speaker 2: i'd remember. I knew that the twist. I remembered the
Speaker 2: twist being that she was more important than she seemed.
Speaker 2: But that was all I could really remember from However,
Speaker 2: many years ago I last watched this, and I think
Speaker 2: I fell into the trap of what they want you
Speaker 2: to think of it. It's the fiance and yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: and then has he killed the fiance and all this
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, and I couldn't really remember how it
Speaker 2: went down.
Speaker 1: No, It's another one that's quite open ended, isn't it
Speaker 1: in some ways?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So for those is that don't remember, want a
Speaker 2: bit of a reminder. The Inside number nine wiki plot
Speaker 2: summary is Tony Warner's performance as Macbeth is the toast
Speaker 2: of London's West End. It would be very bad luck, indeed,
Speaker 2: if he was suddenly indisposed in some way, except for
Speaker 2: Jim is ever a hopeful understudy of course. Well there
Speaker 2: you go, as helpful as that is to anyone. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it opens up, obviously with Steve's character as the
Speaker 2: actual Macbeth. He plays an interesting character in this one.
Speaker 2: He reminded me so much of pop from Legal Gentlemen,
Speaker 2: Which one's that the awful character. I think he's meant
Speaker 2: to be Greek.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, he's just the most foul character in both
Speaker 2: of these, especially when he gets a bit drunk. And
Speaker 2: it's a funny episode because there's lots there's lots of
Speaker 2: little characters that pop up, even if they're only on
Speaker 2: screen for like two minutes. Obviously the next door neighbors. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got so much character built into those.
Speaker 1: I know. That's my favorite bit of the episode because
Speaker 1: as someone who has done a lot of theater and
Speaker 1: like is in that theater world, like people who are
Speaker 1: a bit tangential to theater, when they come into it,
Speaker 1: they all say the same things, and they absolutely nailed that.
Speaker 1: The thing about oh, it's the costumes and the lights
Speaker 1: that make it. You're like, okay, It's like my friend
Speaker 1: and I have a joke that whenever she's in a show,
Speaker 1: her mum comes to see it and she always says, well,
Speaker 1: the costumes were lovely. That's anything she says about it.
Speaker 2: You never really know what to say. And I could
Speaker 2: just feel the cringiness through the screen. It was just
Speaker 2: painful to even watch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when she says about there was a portal
Speaker 1: in this, wasn't there? I said to Bill that should
Speaker 1: be you like literally everyone says things for.
Speaker 2: That everyone's grandma.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very good. They nailed and the actors as well
Speaker 1: also liked how Steve's character was, you know, sitting there
Speaker 1: saying before they came in, I've got absolutely nothing to
Speaker 1: say to either one of the bill. He turns on.
Speaker 2: The charm was perfect.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you seen have you seen the Play that
Speaker 1: Goes Wrong?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: And do you know Mischief Comedy? Who do it? He
Speaker 1: really reminded me of Henry Lewis the woman the.
Speaker 2: Beard right guy?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, is this character the way he was like.
Speaker 1: I like the bit when when sickly when he said
Speaker 1: about the people looking in their programs and he goes,
Speaker 1: look up, people, there's a theater that's happening now in
Speaker 1: front of you. So pompous. Yeah. Again he plays that,
Speaker 1: that pompous theater actor who thinks he's better than he is.
Speaker 1: So well, yeah, because you said in your synopsis about well,
Speaker 1: you didn't write it, but the synopsis said it said
Speaker 1: about his performance as Macbeth is the toast of London's
Speaker 1: west End. You hear a bit of him over the tannoy,
Speaker 1: and it's awful. I mean, it's just so sort of
Speaker 1: oh Shakespearean.
Speaker 2: You know. Do they have those tannoys in dressing rooms.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing yes, yeah, in like big theaters like that
Speaker 1: they would yet.
Speaker 2: Just playing what's happening in the on stage.
Speaker 1: Yes, so you're aware.
Speaker 2: So they kept saying on the tannoy the company of Macbeth,
Speaker 2: over and over. I thought that was the whole thing.
Speaker 2: You want to say, the name.
Speaker 1: It's a superstition, isn't It is.
Speaker 2: A thing, as much as everyone makes out it's a thing.
Speaker 1: I think these days, I don't know to be fair,
Speaker 1: because actors can be very superstitious, but like, if you're
Speaker 1: doing the play Macbeth, you can't really avoid saying it
Speaker 1: because it's in the text and all that.
Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, when you're on stage is a bit different.
Speaker 1: But no, that's a good point.
Speaker 2: The fact that it was on the tune. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: whether that was intentional.
Speaker 1: That it was like, well exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2: It was bad luck for the whole throw and everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hadn't actually thought of that, But that's a
Speaker 1: good point.
Speaker 2: I like there were cards up saying good luck and
Speaker 2: stuff everywhere, which obviously is another thing you don't do.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you if you were aware
Speaker 1: of that, and obviously are break a leg being what
Speaker 1: you're supposed to say. Doesn't Jim say good luck at
Speaker 1: one point and Laura's like, oh don't?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he does. Yeah. Yeah. I wondered how
Speaker 2: much of that was intentional on the like meta element
Speaker 2: of it of like, yes, the commentary on the episode itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say it probably is intentional. Yeah. Apparently
Speaker 1: there's loads of things you're not supposed to do in theaters.
Speaker 1: You're not supposed to whistle backstage.
Speaker 2: That's from Sailors.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was told you do know lots about theater
Speaker 1: some stuff. I just haven't actually been there. I had
Speaker 1: all my fun facts ready for you.
Speaker 2: You know, because isn't it that Sailors used to do
Speaker 2: a lot of the like that's right, Yeah, that's work
Speaker 2: behind Yeah, and like the rigging and stuff. That's why
Speaker 2: it's called rigging exactly. I do know stuff. I just
Speaker 2: I just haven't done it well done. I'm a nerd.
Speaker 1: You are you are?
Speaker 2: Is that israel Hair's wig?
Speaker 1: Oh it's got to be a wig.
Speaker 2: It was horrible. I'm sorry it was real, but that
Speaker 2: was horrible.
Speaker 1: No. No, I think they're just because they're in every episode.
Speaker 1: I think they're trying to sort of make them look
Speaker 1: different than each one. And yeah, yeah, with that.
Speaker 2: So this is the thing that interested me, Like how
Speaker 2: understudies work, So, like how much practice did they have,
Speaker 2: Like they're expected to give the same performance that someone
Speaker 2: in the audience wouldn't know necessarily that they woul understudy. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but presumab we have next to none of the rehearsal time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is. Yeah, I think they shadow
Speaker 1: the main cast in rehearsals, and they probably get separate
Speaker 1: times to go off in another room and run it
Speaker 1: and stuff. But I think, yeah, I think part of
Speaker 1: the job of being an understudy is just basically knowing
Speaker 1: what you've got to do without actually having done it
Speaker 1: very much. Yeah, which is a challenge, it must be.
Speaker 2: It must be really galling as well, being the understudied
Speaker 2: person knowing that everyone that's in the audience has got
Speaker 2: it that you're on stage as well, they're not getting
Speaker 2: a person that came to see and then having to
Speaker 2: use your opportunity to show off that you actually can
Speaker 2: do what you can do.
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, it's very much like an underdog position, isn't it.
Speaker 2: The first time I saw Phantom, I got the understudy
Speaker 2: for Phantom, Yes, and we were all like me and
Speaker 2: my gran run the front row in the middle. And
Speaker 2: it gets to the big bit at the end where
Speaker 2: he's doing his big speech to Christine, having taken the
Speaker 2: mask off and everything, and he forgets his line for
Speaker 2: all of about two seconds. But it felt like eternity,
Speaker 2: and I was close enough that I could see the
Speaker 2: terror in this poor guy's eyes. He was trying to
Speaker 2: remember what his next line was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, poor guy. Yeah, I mean I've had nightmares about
Speaker 1: drying on stage. I haven't I haven't actually acted on
Speaker 1: stage for a long time now, but yeah, if you
Speaker 1: are on stage and you're just completely dry, it just
Speaker 1: feel very powerless.
Speaker 2: And you're waiting for Betty in the wings, so yell
Speaker 2: your line out.
Speaker 1: Most shows I've done, we've never we've not used prompts,
Speaker 1: and I when I direct, i'd like to not have
Speaker 1: a prompt because I feel like if they're going to
Speaker 1: be used, then it sort of shatters the illusion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I prefer, you know, normally, actors are very good
Speaker 1: at helping each other out, and if you've forgot on
Speaker 1: your line, somebody else will know it and they might
Speaker 1: be able to guide the scene in the right direction
Speaker 1: and you know, sort things out.
Speaker 2: And throw things at you afterwards. Well.
Speaker 1: Yes, So I directed a play a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: and it was there was this guy in it. They're
Speaker 1: all sitting out on the sofa eating cake and his
Speaker 1: line was supposed to be a nice cake and then
Speaker 1: move on, and he'd forgotten it, and people were sitting
Speaker 1: there and you know, just a waiting him to say it.
Speaker 1: And then in the end this woman just went, what
Speaker 1: do you think of the cake?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, they were doing their their understudy rehearsals. And
Speaker 2: the thing about I can understand the no blood but
Speaker 2: no swords feels a little bit risky. For I would
Speaker 2: love to know what their risk assessment is on giving
Speaker 2: someone that's not trained with swords suddenly with no notice,
Speaker 2: right gone stage with the sword.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because you're right, Jim is saying several times
Speaker 1: throughout the thing that he hasn't done it with the swords,
Speaker 1: isn't he?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that wouldn't They would have to have run it
Speaker 1: through with the swords and with the fight director. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think because they're saying the fight directors in hospital,
Speaker 1: that's why they could Jacoby. Yeah, Jacoby, Yes, Jacoby hit
Speaker 1: him in the goolies with a nunchuck. That such an image,
Speaker 1: very specific. Yeah, you could just imagine ry Jack could
Speaker 1: be doing it as well. Yeah, oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: We've also got, obviously, Felicity the company manager, who's a
Speaker 1: nice interesting character, isn't she just And again she's very
Speaker 1: much they hit the nail on the head of you
Speaker 1: know that kind of company. I mean, I've not worked
Speaker 1: with company managers particularly, but like a stage manager kind of,
Speaker 1: which is a similar thing. There's so many regulations with
Speaker 1: health and safety and this and that. And when she's
Speaker 1: going on about a big quite angele about them signing
Speaker 1: out and signing in again that they only stepped out
Speaker 1: the door for a minute, like yeah, yeah, you do
Speaker 1: have to. And then it's quite a shock when she
Speaker 1: then tries to chat up Laura, Yeah, because she seems
Speaker 1: so straight laced and like by the book, and she
Speaker 1: goes and sort of does that and it's a bit like, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: I did think that was an odd choice. She's an
Speaker 2: interesting character, like why would she do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of didn't didn't fit really with what
Speaker 1: you see of her. Although I suppose people are complex.
Speaker 2: But be one thing to have hit on someone that's
Speaker 2: single but that's actually engaged feels a little bit like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you aren't very good here.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know was her intention to actually, you know,
Speaker 1: do anything with her or was it just to see
Speaker 1: her naked? You know, I think it was more that.
Speaker 1: I think it was more just opportunistic like true you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: poppy jeans and top of can we just say as well,
Speaker 1: like Kirsty the Dresser, I like her a lot. The
Speaker 1: actress Rosie Cavaliro. She's so good. Yeah, she's one of
Speaker 1: those actresses that's just like very normal and like she's
Speaker 1: like a normal person, like a real person.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen her in much, but I can only
Speaker 2: see her as a character in Friday Night Dinner if
Speaker 2: you've seen it.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. Well. I have seen bits of.
Speaker 2: It, but just very very gigly.
Speaker 1: Oh okay for me, it's what I know her from
Speaker 1: is that episode of Banana.
Speaker 2: I have seen it. I can't think what.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for anyone who's not aware, I'll just explained
Speaker 1: that Banana was a little series of short half hour
Speaker 1: individual It's like an anthology like this series of LGBT
Speaker 1: stories by Russell Y Davies and some more emerging queer
Speaker 1: writers done about ten years ago now. And yeah, she
Speaker 1: was in. The one she was in was there was
Speaker 1: this young girl who was basically obsessed with her. I
Speaker 1: think she saw her in the supermarket and then she
Speaker 1: was like love at first sight, and it was just
Speaker 1: it was quite bizarre because it was this young sort
Speaker 1: of person who'd fallen in love with this older, middle
Speaker 1: aged lady who was nothing special. Like she says to
Speaker 1: herself in the episode, she was like, I'm just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm just me, like a mum, you know, going to
Speaker 1: the supermarket. And it was Yeah, she played that role
Speaker 1: so well as.
Speaker 2: Well, and she plays it so well here as well.
Speaker 2: Too believable. And then it's that dark turn at the
Speaker 2: end that really gets in that she does so well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean she seems quite unhinged at the end
Speaker 1: when she says about how she's been to see everything
Speaker 1: he's done, and she she comes several times a week
Speaker 1: to see the little differences in his performance, you start
Speaker 1: to think, oh, okay and utter this is creepy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Act three, so that's when Tony's drunk and he really
Speaker 2: does change as a character. He becomes awful. Oh god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if he wasn't bad enough.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but it's painful some of the lines that
Speaker 2: he has when he's trying to get her in the
Speaker 2: shower and stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh god, when he sister, I could cure you. Yeah, homophobia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she's what you're looking for, dude.
Speaker 1: I've just got to call out when she says when
Speaker 1: Banquok came on and you said, fuck may there's a ghost.
Speaker 2: Not that, And the Australian accent just adds so much
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 1: But at the same time you can hear Steve's character
Speaker 1: doing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well a dildo I see before me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the handle toward man had.
Speaker 2: And then you get all these the flash sort of
Speaker 2: flash forwards. I guess of like her covered in blood
Speaker 2: and stuff, which is quite creepy. I remember the first
Speaker 2: time I watched it. I think that was intrigued me
Speaker 2: more than anything else. Those bits.
Speaker 1: I mean, when she's offering him the dagger and saying
Speaker 1: take it. You know, it's quite. It's quite on the nose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But then I suppose if it had turned out that yes,
Speaker 1: they were following the story of Macbeth and she was
Speaker 1: responsible on this, and that it would have been very
Speaker 1: on the nose. But the fact that they're sort of
Speaker 1: laying that groundwork and then they go a different direction
Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, I like when she's not mocking him.
Speaker 1: There is a bit where she's mocking him, but then
Speaker 1: she's also sort of just having a go at him
Speaker 1: and just saying you just don't want it enough. And
Speaker 1: she says about you're stuck in the corner of the
Speaker 1: room like a television on standby, like she's really like
Speaker 1: preying on his insecurities and stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, he doesn't ever feel like he actually wants it,
Speaker 2: wants it. I mean I kind of agree with her.
Speaker 2: Obviously I wouldn't say that to him, but it is
Speaker 2: brutal how she phrases it, but it's kind of true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess he's he's scared of, yeah, being successful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just you would be terrified, like he's your chance
Speaker 2: and then you could absolutely screw it up. Yeah, in
Speaker 2: front of a West End audience. Yeah, we must be
Speaker 2: terrifying for your first time halfway through a show as well. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when it gets to all the it gets harder and harder.
Speaker 2: I guess as the show goes on as well. So
Speaker 2: you've gott to jump in straight at eight or nine?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, but yeah, then they decided to put
Speaker 1: Tony back on. Yeah, because they think he's capable.
Speaker 2: Is that because they think he's capable? Is that because
Speaker 2: Felicity is not willing to put Jim on?
Speaker 1: It's partly that, isn't it. And I also think because
Speaker 1: Laura has been so pushing it, pushing it, saying no,
Speaker 1: he's ready, he can do it, he could do it.
Speaker 1: And I think Felicity's a bit like what she says
Speaker 1: about I'll make that call, thank you, like she thinks
Speaker 1: it's her job, which it is. So I guess she's
Speaker 1: maybe being contrary to what Laura saying.
Speaker 2: Just for the sake of it. Yeah, but I wouldn't
Speaker 2: tell what what level is she doesn't like Jim versus
Speaker 2: she does like Tony. What's what's tipping the scale as
Speaker 2: to where she went for because he clearly was he
Speaker 2: clearly was hammered. Oh yeah, and if it was vodka,
Speaker 2: it's going to as strong as he is now in
Speaker 2: twenty minutes time, it's going to be even worse once
Speaker 2: it's properly got into your system. Wig alcohol or whatever
Speaker 2: it turned out, well, yes, pure what's a wig alcohol?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I would imagine it's like ethanol, like
Speaker 1: pure alcohol.
Speaker 2: Wigs are thirsty.
Speaker 1: Oh it's it's to clean them.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then of course he has a big accident. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he falls off the battlements.
Speaker 2: It's interesting as well that all this stuff that we
Speaker 2: never actually get to see any of it.
Speaker 1: No, very much in the wings, like an understand exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I read that they were apparently were originally planning
Speaker 2: it to be in the wings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that would have been interesting, but.
Speaker 2: Then they struggled for the nine element.
Speaker 1: Okay, and difficult, like because you've got to be silent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess it makes it more tricky. And
Speaker 2: then they settled on the dressing room. And also apparently
Speaker 2: they spent a long time working out what kind of
Speaker 2: level of actors they should be.
Speaker 1: I was reading that or yeah, personals. I definitely think
Speaker 1: they made the right choice because with am dram like,
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like, you know, you've got to
Speaker 1: have the stakes there for it to be, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's got to be the big time.
Speaker 2: You've got understand why someone might do what they were
Speaker 2: doing exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you don't really tend to have understudies in
Speaker 1: and Ram.
Speaker 2: True, I suppose, yeah. Sense. So now Jim's taken over. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you find out that he's in hospital and it's
Speaker 2: all all gone wrong, everything's crumbling, So Flicity has been sacked. Yeah, Jims?
Speaker 2: Is it before his first performance?
Speaker 1: I think it must be.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's his first full performance, isn't it. Yes, that's right,
Speaker 2: and then he starts seeing he's blood in the mirror
Speaker 2: and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it got me really intrigued at that point. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think I felt like it was maybe going somewhere
Speaker 2: else than where it was going, right, it was. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was good, and it was as interesting as the
Speaker 2: CGI was.
Speaker 1: It was interesting, wasn't it. Oh? I forgot to mention
Speaker 1: earlier as well, like the moment when she pricks her
Speaker 1: finger with the safety pin or whatever it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's obviously there so that there can be blood on
Speaker 1: the floor that he then sees and imagines. But I
Speaker 1: also saw it as an excuse for the lady macbeth
Speaker 1: character to get blood on her hands, which is obviously
Speaker 1: an iconic image. Yes, I expected her to say she
Speaker 1: couldn't get it out or something, but yeah, that would
Speaker 1: have been really on the nose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fine line of how far you can
Speaker 2: go to these well exactly.
Speaker 1: But then I mean they had they had the moment
Speaker 1: where she's like handing him the dagger saying take it,
Speaker 1: like yeah, it's a bit yeah yea. And yeah, Jim,
Speaker 1: once he gets the role, he gets airs and graces
Speaker 1: a bit quite quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I suppose more so in the next act,
Speaker 2: which is quite a while later, I guess, But yeah,
Speaker 2: he does. Yeah, he does quite quickly change.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's very much like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going out for dinner with the cast and yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: but you know, we don't really mix with the understudies
Speaker 1: and all that. Yeah, and asking her to leave and everything.
Speaker 2: He forgets his roots immediately.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's funny how power changes people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when you consider at this point he fully
Speaker 2: believes Laura's just like set this guy up to oh yeah,
Speaker 2: be paralyzed. Yeah, you'd think he'd maybe be a little
Speaker 2: bit more on her side if nothing else to keep
Speaker 2: himself out of trouble, keep her on side from saying anything. M. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's interesting what she's sat thinking at this point though,
Speaker 2: because she seems to act very much like she's done something.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, I was thinking that. And when she leaves
Speaker 1: the room and he says thanks for this, and she
Speaker 1: does this little look as if to say, okay, whatever.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess it's it's that kind of role.
Speaker 1: Was so tricky, isn't it. When you've got to let
Speaker 1: the audience believe one thing, but you've got to be
Speaker 1: convincing for what it actually is as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when there isn't actually as much of a reason
Speaker 2: as to why they should be doing what they're doing. M.
Speaker 2: I guess she's just, yeah, just going along with whatever
Speaker 2: he says at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because like I said, it's been a long while
Speaker 2: since i'd last watched it. I did think there was
Speaker 2: a lot more to what she'd done than she actually
Speaker 2: had done on this rewatch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think she did anything, No, she just
Speaker 1: she maybe she made a few suggestions, and you know
Speaker 1: it was mainly just the aching him.
Speaker 2: On, Yeah, to take probably just genuine unity, ye, honest,
Speaker 2: like persuasion, rather than actually gone to any lengths to
Speaker 2: do anything.
Speaker 1: M hm.
Speaker 2: But we're just assuming bad things because this program makes
Speaker 2: us think bad thing m m.
Speaker 1: Well, and because obviously it's you're meant to be following
Speaker 1: the plot.
Speaker 2: Of Macbeth, well that as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, then we get act.
Speaker 2: Five, Act five nineteen months later.
Speaker 1: Yes, which I thought was a strange time gap, because
Speaker 1: the way they play it, it feels like it's a
Speaker 1: longer time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like quite a long time.
Speaker 1: I was. You know, maybe they could have almost chosen
Speaker 1: like nine years if they wanted to have nine in it.
Speaker 2: I assume they just purely wanted a nine and they
Speaker 2: maybe didn't want to go as far as nine years. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but the need to get him a new wig, Yes,
Speaker 2: ate you up a bit. He goes to a lot
Speaker 2: in nineteen months. Yes, he gets his little part on
Speaker 2: Game of Thrones.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's been to Broadway. I'm back, Yeah, taken Macker's
Speaker 1: to Broadway and now he's doing Dick the Shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have some respect. What would Derek Jacoby say?
Speaker 1: He probably says it too, Oh, darling, I'm doing Dick
Speaker 1: the Shit.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, how just a lick of paint makes that
Speaker 2: room look so much nicer. My god, does that room
Speaker 2: look hideous to start with? Yes, and then looks kind
Speaker 2: of okay, if not quite nice by the end of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I do think it was slightly strange, how like,
Speaker 1: because obviously this is the stars dressing room, like it's
Speaker 1: the lead character, but it's number nine, Like you wouldn't
Speaker 1: you think that will be number one?
Speaker 2: Well? I wondered this, Yeah, and would there even be
Speaker 2: nine dressing rooms?
Speaker 1: Probably?
Speaker 2: I don't know how big theaters are, but in.
Speaker 1: A big Western theater, and I would think they would be.
Speaker 2: I thought they doubled up and stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh, they probably do, Yeah, but I don't know. By
Speaker 1: the way, the establishing shot at the beginning, isn't that
Speaker 1: is in the Windoms Theatre?
Speaker 2: Is the Windoms? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Obviously they Yeah. So that was nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I wonder whether that was that they chose it
Speaker 2: because it was like the favorite one maybe and that's
Speaker 2: why they chose to do the show there later maybe,
Speaker 2: or whether it was purely just coincidence and available theater
Speaker 2: at the right the show. Yeah. I did think that
Speaker 2: was nice, and especially considering this is one of the
Speaker 2: earliest episodes to kind of the last thing as far
Speaker 2: as we know in the in the franchise, it's quite nice.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's fully become the Tony character by the end,
Speaker 2: and then he changes so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he really has. And then obviously we see Tony again,
Speaker 1: who's become quite a bit more of a sympathetic character.
Speaker 1: Since he's now paralyzing in a wheelchair, he's quite limited
Speaker 1: in terms of what he can do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nice though that he's still able to keep
Speaker 2: in the game that he enjoys. Like he's still doing
Speaker 2: he's doing his audioboox and things, which is it's not
Speaker 2: like he's just given up and you know, he's just
Speaker 2: sat in his chair. He's still he's still getting to
Speaker 2: be part of what he does, like to a degree.
Speaker 1: Yes, But obviously that scene when Jim meets Tony again,
Speaker 1: like obviously Jim is thinking throughout this whole thing that
Speaker 1: his ex fiance was responsible for this, which I think
Speaker 1: is interesting. Then when he's when he asks him what
Speaker 1: about that girlfriend of yours and he sort of doesn't
Speaker 1: know who's talking about. Is he just masking that at
Speaker 1: that moment or.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure it seems genuine.
Speaker 1: Because she you think she would be in his mind
Speaker 1: if he believed.
Speaker 2: That, especially seeing Tony again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it turns out they're not together anymore. And
Speaker 1: I guess in the previous act when we saw him
Speaker 1: sort of saying, oh, I can't go to dinner with
Speaker 1: you because I'm going with the cast, and can you
Speaker 1: leave me to prepare and all that, it's kind of
Speaker 1: the beginnings of him sort of letting her go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's served her purpose.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is quite sad because they seemed quite happy
Speaker 2: together at the start of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So whether something else has happened that we've not seen, Hugh,
Speaker 2: it's just the power's gone to his head and he's
Speaker 2: given up, which is quite sad, but presumably that's happened
Speaker 2: before he went to Broadway. Yeah, and then she's do
Speaker 2: we believe that she's actually committed suicide.
Speaker 1: As opposed to Kirsty killing her? Yeah, because there's that
Speaker 1: moment where she picks up the ring and she says, oh,
Speaker 1: I took it from Laura. I think she wanted me
Speaker 1: to have it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Is that because she's taking it off her dead body
Speaker 1: that she found or did she kill her? But would
Speaker 1: why would she kill her?
Speaker 2: So it's a less less obstacles between her and Jim.
Speaker 1: I would I would say, so she wants to be
Speaker 1: with Jim.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I think she doesn't necessarily want to
Speaker 2: be with him, but she wants to think that there's
Speaker 2: not someone that he likes more, or that she's like
Speaker 2: in control of his life and she's taking out people
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe yeah, because yeah, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't get a sense that she wanted to be with him.
Speaker 1: I think it was just a sense of, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: you're you're amazing.
Speaker 2: That's the difficulty with these things. There's so many questions
Speaker 2: like this that you just don't we don't have enough
Speaker 2: information to go on. But I think I was very
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty on on whether I think she killed
Speaker 2: her or she committed suicide.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't know. To be honest, I think I
Speaker 1: was leaning to I believed it. Actually I think she did.
Speaker 1: I think it was a sense of.
Speaker 2: Suicide and why would she. I know that we're meant
Speaker 2: to believe she committed suicide and that fits with the
Speaker 2: guilt thing. Yeah, but once you take the guilt thing away,
Speaker 2: especially in that theater, Yeah, it was in that dressing room. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what reasons does she have to mmm?
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I feel like if if we
Speaker 1: were supposed to think that Kirsty had killed her, wouldn't
Speaker 1: they have wouldn't they have made it slightly clearer somehow?
Speaker 1: Because I don't know what evidence is there to say
Speaker 1: that she killed her just to picking up the ring
Speaker 1: that thing, Oh and.
Speaker 2: Just that Kirsty's weird. Well, yes, and I don't really
Speaker 2: believe anything.
Speaker 1: She says, well, yeah, I just love her performance, you know,
Speaker 1: the bit when she's putting on his boots or whatever,
Speaker 1: and he says about Laura was responsible for Tony's accident,
Speaker 1: and then she just looks up and she goes, well
Speaker 1: that was a Laura was like, oh that was me,
Speaker 1: Like I made a cup of tea drink. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we've only got Kirstie's word that that's how
Speaker 2: she died, and that's what makes me not believe it.
Speaker 2: That's true, But also she didn't. She just matter of
Speaker 2: factly said that she bumped off Tony. I guess in
Speaker 2: a way, So why wouldn't she say, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: killed her.
Speaker 1: Hm, that's true. I mean maybe if you said you
Speaker 1: don't believe anything, she says she maybe she's not even dead.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's just saying that, Well, why she would. I
Speaker 1: don't know. One bit that I confused me actually is
Speaker 1: I think it was just before Tony's accident. There's that
Speaker 1: bit where Laura is left alone in the dressing room.
Speaker 1: She takes her ring off, and then she hears water
Speaker 1: in the shower and she goes to the shower and
Speaker 1: I'm like, and then then there's nothing there, And I
Speaker 1: don't know what that was supposed to be.
Speaker 2: No, it kind of read like it was if it
Speaker 2: was a regular series, that would feel like that was
Speaker 2: a storyline that they never went somewhere with and they
Speaker 2: forgot to, whereas here it must have been. It's obviously intentional,
Speaker 2: but I just I don't really understand why or is
Speaker 2: it her? Is it meant to be shown that she's
Speaker 2: going I think she's going mad? I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, that was a bit strange.
Speaker 2: There are quite a few bits in this way. They're
Speaker 2: clearly put in to make you think one thing, but
Speaker 2: that don't work once you wance that's proved not to
Speaker 2: be true exactly, which is a bit of a down
Speaker 2: for for the episode.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for me, I agree. I agree. Actually, I think
Speaker 1: that's the thing about a good twist.
Speaker 2: It's got to work logically once you know the answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to work both ways, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I did enjoy the twist, and I did
Speaker 2: enjoy how sudden it went so dark and how you
Speaker 2: see on like Jim's face just like oh no, oh god,
Speaker 2: what's this woman going to do to me next? Kind
Speaker 2: of thing, like she's always just watching him and watching
Speaker 2: his life. M It's terrifying, Yes, especially when you know
Speaker 2: how quickly she could bring down someone's career.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think she was great casting for that
Speaker 1: role because, like you said, she's so she's so normal
Speaker 1: and down to earth and just sort of you wouldn't
Speaker 1: you wouldn't expect anything of her to be doing anything
Speaker 1: like that, And.
Speaker 2: Of all the bit characters until towards the end, she
Speaker 2: is she's one of the smallest parts.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeh, it's still quite like she's not like she's not there,
Speaker 2: but you wouldn't have really ever thought anything about her.
Speaker 2: She owned that last that last scene so much.
Speaker 1: She did. She's very good. Yeah, it's an okay episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny because when I first watched it when I
Speaker 1: was going through the series for the first time. I
Speaker 1: got to this one and I was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that. And I think it's probably because of
Speaker 1: the theater stuff and it sort of felt relatable to me.
Speaker 1: But having watched it again a couple of times for
Speaker 1: this I'm like, I don't know. I think it's there's
Speaker 1: lots in it that I do enjoy, but it's again,
Speaker 1: it's not one of their strongest ones. I think if
Speaker 1: we're going to start to think about rating it, I
Speaker 1: think for me, it's on a par with last week's.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give it a three, which is
Speaker 1: what I gave last week's as well.
Speaker 2: I I'd probably say I enjoyed it slightly more okay,
Speaker 2: but it's a four too much. That feels really cruel. No,
Speaker 2: I would probably say three as well. Yeah, I did
Speaker 2: enjoy it, but I didn't. It wasn't as for me
Speaker 2: as a lot of other episodes are. And that's fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have exciting news by the way, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I spotted the hair. Yeah, finally you can do the honors.
Speaker 2: Where was it?
Speaker 1: It was on the dressing table. I mean, it's pretty
Speaker 1: much the only place it could be in this episode
Speaker 1: in the shower right next to the mirror. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was very happy I saw it.
Speaker 2: I mean tree for next week. So I can't remember
Speaker 2: where next week's is, and it could be in a
Speaker 2: lot of places, but yeah, keep an eye up for that.
Speaker 2: Did you spot my title last week?
Speaker 1: Oh? We forgot to do it the beginning to me,
Speaker 1: let's do it now? I did spot it. It was
Speaker 1: very clever.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: If she wants to enlighten listeners.
Speaker 2: It was three by three. Yeah, especially when they're trying
Speaker 2: to sort of a portion of who gets what, like
Speaker 2: this starts like the three of them like display it
Speaker 2: three by three and then they do it into four
Speaker 2: and note should be into five. Yes, I thought I
Speaker 2: did that one.
Speaker 1: Okay, you did very good, very good.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start writing scripts though, because these are going
Speaker 2: to start geting. Yeah, really contrived stories that we're gonna
Speaker 2: have to come up with.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll see, we'll see. And yes, listeners, I wonder
Speaker 1: if you spotted the one that I slipped in to
Speaker 1: this episode. I know you did. Yeah, it was probably
Speaker 1: quite obvious, wasn't it. I like to think I'm subtle,
Speaker 1: but probably not at all.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I hope that the people are like
Speaker 2: listening in the gym or whatever and they're not really
Speaker 2: they can't really focus that intently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yes, I'll reveal that next week.
Speaker 2: As to what it was last step for the series
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's one that I remember really liking
Speaker 1: the first time. Yeah, yeah, I do like this one,
Speaker 1: quite excited.
Speaker 2: Good way to end the series. So we'll be back
Speaker 2: with the harrowing next week.
Speaker 1: We will, but until then, we are closing the door
Speaker 1: on number nine.
Speaker 2: But you never really leave, do you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Ninth Degree. If you'd like
Speaker 1: to get into you can find us on Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and TikTok at ninth Degree Pod, or email us at
Speaker 1: Ninthdegree pod at gmail dot com. You can also leave
Speaker 1: us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.