WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.679 --> 00:00:07.919 The paranormal UFOs, Monsters, Mysteries that you're listening to Talking 2 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.439 Weird and know from a Kevin deep in the northwards 3 00:00:12.880 --> 00:01:09.719 your host, Doctor Dean Bertram. 4 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.719 Oh, greetings, or my fellow widows and widows, welcome to 5 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:47.280 Talking Weird on the un Told Radio Network. Happy New Year. 6 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:50.640 I'm grateful that you're all here again tonight. I hope 7 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.439 you had a wonderful New Year and Christmas period. I'm 8 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:57.079 delighted because I've got my old co host of Mysterious 9 00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:58.640 Library with me and one of my best friends in 10 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:01.119 this wonderful country, Manley Jason McLean. 11 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:06.920 Greetings and salutations, Weirdians. Uh yeah, we're not gonna do 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:10.079 introduction for me today. We all we're all family here, 13 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.640 you know me, I know you. You know, we're we're all 14 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:16.120 friends here. So we're just gonna kick this shindn't dig off. 15 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:18.200 Sounds good, sounds good. 16 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:22.159 With my over abundance of beard, I'm I'm growing it 17 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:23.760 out for a little bit, so I have I can 18 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:25.359 you know, I was just telling Dean, so I can 19 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:26.799 trim it up here in a little bit. I got 20 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:32.439 a project that I'll be on that we can when 21 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:35.640 there's spoken of yeah, well there's more to be spoken of. 22 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.599 I'll speak of it. So my my Santa Claus look 23 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:40.599 will not be lasting too too long. 24 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:41.319 I thought it. 25 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.040 I thought you've just grown it out for your side 26 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.120 Giga sand or the local more holidays. 27 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.280 I'm honestly too busy at your normal job to do that. Man. 28 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.680 So okay, funny story, I funny story, and this is 29 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:58.640 one true. My wife knows a man who is a 30 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:06.079 professional year around Santa Claus, and she did work with 31 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.719 his family and his website and the home. Dude has 32 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.680 a Santa's workshop that he that he keeps on his property. 33 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:17.199 He gets moved, you know, when it's time to go 34 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.960 out and do the Santa Claus thing. Dude looks like 35 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.680 Santa Claus. His car is done up with Santa on it. 36 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.400 Dude is a The dude looks like Santa Claus like 37 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.680 he came out of a Coca Cola ad from the thirties. 38 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.680 It's nuts wow m hm. 39 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.240 So before we get into the weed and he and 40 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:40.280 he tells about Christmas on New Year that McLean residents. 41 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.159 She would like to share with us any Jason misadventures 42 00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:43.560 over the. 43 00:02:43.479 --> 00:02:51.240 Holidays, Actually, no misadventures. This year is quite quite calm, 44 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:56.199 quite chill, you know, very RESTful. That's good, you know, 45 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:58.800 I mean there was there was a family in Caso. 46 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.719 It doesn't get better than that. That's yeah, that's perfect. 47 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.919 We've got a lot of snow here in the north Woods. 48 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:09.280 So we've had a very white Christmas in New Year's period. 49 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.120 Literally at the moment, there are icicles hanging around all 50 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:15.759 my warnings outside, it looks like something out of a 51 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:17.639 out of a holiday Christmas. 52 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:21.199 We've been much warmer than usual, Like we've gotten believed 53 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.360 that at night a couple of times, like I've got 54 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:29.319 the things on my on my outside water hose attachments. 55 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:31.840 But it's like I feel like I could have kept 56 00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.280 I could have kept everything, all my hoses connected so 57 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:36.280 I could keep watering my plants because like it was 58 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.439 in the we've been in the seventies and eighties. Last 59 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.319 couple of days. Now, yeah, it doesn't usually Again, a 60 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.120 white Christmas is almost Yeah, it happens from time to time. 61 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:48.919 It's not unheard of, but it is infrequent. Usually our 62 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:52.360 really cold stuff happens in January. But yeah, it's been 63 00:03:52.360 --> 00:03:55.759 really warm this year. So yeah, that's probably the weirdest thing. 64 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:58.280 My brother's in Houston. He said they had a heat 65 00:03:58.280 --> 00:03:59.080 wave down there. 66 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:02.280 Well, it's Houston, and we don't know. As Texans, we 67 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.719 are specificly as a Dallas site, I am genetically required 68 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:07.719 to dislike Ustonians. 69 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.639 Huh, that's interesting. I know about the rivalry there. I 70 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:16.680 did see last night. Their fireworks in Dallas are pretty impressive. 71 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.519 I don't always watch fireworks around the world, but after 72 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.399 the countdown and everything, I think we because I had 73 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.639 a very quiet New Year's Eve this year. I just 74 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:27.240 had my mother's visiting from the holidays for the holidays 75 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:30.360 that anybody who was watching talking weird last week, we'll 76 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:31.879 see where she guested with me, so it was just 77 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.959 my mother and my and my daughter. My girlfriend was 78 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.639 with her own children last night and the weather was 79 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:39.800 too terrible to drive to drive here anyway. She's like, 80 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:42.399 she's a good hour or more away, and in this 81 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.519 Northwoods at some area it's crave. The roads get like diabolical. 82 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.480 You don't want to go. But no, it was a 83 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:52.879 lovely holidays. I don't think anything super weird happened here 84 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:54.639 over the holidays. I've heard a lot of ours, which 85 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:57.120 always creep my daughter out. These days which I've talked about. 86 00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:59.199 It's a very hourly season for so I've never heard 87 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:01.759 so many hours in the whatever. This year, they have 88 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:03.759 been out of control. And they do say the owls 89 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.720 are not what they say, so maybe that indicate something 90 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.079 weird going on. Who knows. 91 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:13.240 Yeah, well, I mean that's owls are I'll say it 92 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.399 this way. I have no problem with owls, but I've 93 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:22.120 had enough reports enough people where owls are doing weird things. 94 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:25.480 I always give him an extra little, you know, little 95 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:30.079 extra observation from time, because yeah, there's a lot of 96 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:32.240 weird stuff that happens with them, particularly at night. And 97 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:39.519 you know, one report I have, I will keep some 98 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.319 things vague, and I've had several other reports like this. 99 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:48.160 Of this one particular account, again, I gotta keep a 100 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:52.519 little vague. Dude was asleep, right, so we'll keep it 101 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.439 at that. He was asleep, but he had this weird 102 00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:58.639 dream where he was being watched by this he called 103 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:02.639 it a hag and this tree that was just outside 104 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:06.319 of his of his home, and like so he has 105 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.160 the stream where he's in the chair that he fell 106 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.000 asleep in, but he's in his room and the window, 107 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.959 you know, the like so it's everything is as it 108 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:16.160 had been set up when he fell asleep, and he's 109 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:18.079 in his room and he sees this old hag on 110 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:22.360 this tree branch staring at him, just staring at him, 111 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:25.800 and he's like, what is going on because he's in 112 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:27.879 his in his head, he's like, this is weird. Like 113 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:32.160 it like he could see the hag, but it like 114 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:35.079 the feeling he got was he wasn't supposed to see her. 115 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:39.920 And then he hears this voice from behind him, in 116 00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:44.040 what he believes to be an angel, said am and 117 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.160 it's he wasn't even talking to the eyewitness. He was 118 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:51.319 talking to the hag. He goes, you realize he can 119 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:54.439 see you, right, And then he wakes up. And as 120 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:56.600 soon as he wakes up, he looks he looks out 121 00:06:56.639 --> 00:07:00.560 the window and there's an owl that is staring right 122 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.519 at him and flies off. 123 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:07.439 So that's super weird. I was trying to look for 124 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.879 an illustration I think as an illustration of a like 125 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.480 a strg Oya or the Undead, which is oursc or 126 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:15.199 hag Esk as well. But certainly I mean like there's 127 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:18.439 a book The Messagers by Mike Clelland which deals with 128 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:20.560 these kind of things. If I recall that's the title 129 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:23.720 of the book. Certainly, throughout the history of the occult, 130 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.680 the owls known as some type of you know, wiser thing, 131 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.439 and the history of abduction law, owls are often, you 132 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:34.399 know involved, there's people perceive things they think are ours 133 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:35.920 and are meant to actually be something else. So yeah, 134 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:40.319 an our is you know, it's certainly certainly a symbol 135 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.160 of something. I remember speaking of ols and pop culture 136 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.399 and weirdness. I remember one of my favorite shows of 137 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:48.600 all time, Millennium. In the second season of that show, 138 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:52.439 which starred Lance Henrickson, was originated by Chris Carter. I 139 00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:54.240 love it's one of my favorite television shows of all time. 140 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.560 The second season of that show might be the greatest 141 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:00.439 season of network television ever. It's so good Fox or 142 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:05.079 whatever it was on any television ever. But there are 143 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.240 two groups. The Millennium group meant they're meant to try 144 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.560 to be stopping, you know, or fighting the horrors of 145 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:11.720 the millennium because this was made before nineteen ninety nine, 146 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:13.319 where everybody was still in the world man then, so 147 00:08:13.360 --> 00:08:16.120 it was very well timed. But one of the groups 148 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.800 was called the Owls, and the owls thought that we 149 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.079 actually had longer that it was the middle of the night. Well, 150 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:24.120 the roosters, the other group were like, you know, alarmists, 151 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:26.560 They thought the millennium was about to take place. So 152 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.600 even in pop culture, the owl becomes a signifier of 153 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:34.600 a secret society or other things, something mysterious about that bird. 154 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.720 Well you got the cord of owls and batman lore, 155 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:41.360 and Lilith is literally a screech out like it's Lilith 156 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:46.279 is an owl. The that's not just that's not just 157 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:52.120 a biblical concept. That is a Mesopotamian concept right in 158 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.519 Nana is believed to have had at least some influence 159 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:01.840 on on on Lilith, but she's often depicted as having 160 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.279 owl like specifically owl like features, with owls being familiar 161 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:08.320 to hers. So yeah, there's a very very long long 162 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:13.080 tradition of owls and similar and again similar night creatures 163 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:17.320 because when you get into like the Philippines, right, Indonesia 164 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:18.759 where they don't have a lot of owls, but they 165 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.399 have very large bats. 166 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.559 Like in Australia we do as well. Oh yeah, what's 167 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:27.919 from Minnostia. Yeah, absolutely, things which are denizens of the night, 168 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:30.039 you know, the creatures of the nightwak music, you know 169 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:34.080 they make anything which is nocturnal is perhaps it goes 170 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:36.240 back to when we're around the campfires of you know, 171 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.759 hiding in our little mud huts or whatever. The thing's 172 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:42.320 moving and you know, lurking outside things that can see 173 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:45.039 in the dark and we can't see them, that there 174 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:50.679 is something innately, regardless of the supernatural paranormal realities of 175 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:54.080 the connections of these creatures with those things, just the 176 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:56.840 fact that there's things out there which are prowling around 177 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:59.600 when we can't see them, it's scary. 178 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.960 One hundred percent. And again, there's definitely a and we've 179 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.879 talked about this a lot, right, that a lot of 180 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:12.639 this does see a lot of supernatural manifestation seems to 181 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:18.960 use the medium of cultural concepts and contexts to to 182 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.679 communicate with us and to interact with us. And yet 183 00:10:23.039 --> 00:10:27.720 while that is one hundred percent true, there are themes 184 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:34.039 that seem to transcend culture to a degree, right, it 185 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:39.320 seemed to be some degree of cultural universal you know 186 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:45.559 the wild man mythos where you have a humanoid figure 187 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.159 that is also part uh usually it's a goat, but 188 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.120 I mean that's probably the most traditional version. But you know, 189 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.759 bowl legs again digitrade hoofed legs is the best way 190 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:03.039 to look at it. And horns or antlers, that's pretty universal. 191 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.080 As are going back to the idea that the idea 192 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:12.399 of owls very specifically being connected to these and it's 193 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:16.039 and it's really weird because it's almost always goddess or 194 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:20.559 witch connections rather than because some of these things, some 195 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:23.039 of the you know, some symbols sort of jump around 196 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.559 as to who has them and what they're doing. But 197 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.960 owls are almost very very universal, except for again, except 198 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.279 for those areas where there aren't owls and bats take 199 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.360 that place, so it's all and again even then it's 200 00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.799 witches that they're connected to and goddesses even in Indonesia, 201 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.720 so in the Philippines. So it's yeah, it's just one 202 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.399 of those weird things that it's It does seem culturally 203 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:52.200 derived and yet maybe larger than culture itself, so who knows. 204 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:55.559 Certainly, Minerva, you know, of the Greek Roman tradition, was 205 00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.919 associated with an owl and owl with her symbol, and 206 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.000 of course we and the antler thing. It's interesting because 207 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:06.960 that almost that always becomes masculine, the antlered thing, like 208 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.919 it's the the horned man, for example, is the equivalent 209 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:13.519 of the goddess in those supposedly in those older you know, 210 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:17.080 pre Christian traditions, you know of the Europe. But we 211 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:18.919 could talk about this stuff as you and I could 212 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.639 go down the road holes focal. 213 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.440 Yeah, this is all. Yeah, this is the entire night. 214 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:25.799 We need to do that Van. This is just the vamp. 215 00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:27.039 We haven't even kicked off the. 216 00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:31.000 No, we haven't even kicked whip. It's certainly the the 217 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:36.120 certainly the weird though. But to jump more to perhaps 218 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:40.440 the more recent past twenty twenty five, which is what 219 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.080 I promised our audience, who would talk about tonight. We've 220 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:46.519 got all kinds of wonderful people who take my girlfriends there. Hey, 221 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:50.559 Sam Horace is here and mentioned that if if the 222 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.200 year opens with Danan Chason, it's already a year of weirdness. 223 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.279 It has to be true, Ken Morock, all kinds of 224 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.519 wonderful regulars. What were your what do you think the 225 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.559 highlights not necessarily your personal highlights, but what were the 226 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:07.799 highlights of the weed do you think what were the 227 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.679 things which were significant in twenty twenty five in the 228 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.639 broader forty and weed space. 229 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:17.159 Honestly, I really I was thinking about this, you know, 230 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:19.559 for you know, the last week while we were talking 231 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:23.679 about this. Really I think that there's two major highlights, 232 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:26.639 right and sort of the same thing with the passing 233 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.080 is like there's a lot of people who've passed, there's 234 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.080 a lot of you know, news that both sections seem 235 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:34.799 to have like two highlights or two issues of real 236 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.679 broader prominence. And I think the first one because the 237 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:40.440 second one is definitely gonna take up the rest of 238 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:44.399 the episode. The first one is Katie Elizabeth. Uh has 239 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:47.960 had a really really big year with again material from 240 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:50.320 twenty twenty four, but it came to prominence in twenty 241 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:52.639 twenty five. If you don't know who Katy Elizabeth is, 242 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.600 she's a zoologist who focuses on lake monsters, specifically Lake Champlain, 243 00:13:57.679 --> 00:13:59.559 but she's recently been out to lock Nest. It's some 244 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.600 really great work out there. She's one of the researchers 245 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.120 who has gathered multiple accounts or not just accounts, but 246 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.879 actually made the recordings. And there's been other evidence, but 247 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:15.399 specifically of echolocation in lank Champlain, which is a freshwater lake. 248 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.240 Nothing in that lake is supposed to echo locate, and 249 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:24.639 yet we have multiple confirmed recordings that have been tested 250 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:30.440 by numerous labs, and it's not supposed and it's clearly 251 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:35.240 not supposed to be there. It's echolocation. To this point, 252 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:38.559 the only creatures we know that echo locate are essentially 253 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:40.759 I mean, there are some fish that will do it, 254 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:47.320 but again nothing in water and freshwater specifically. But you're 255 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.399 usually talking about things like porpoises or whales, and they're 256 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.320 not supposed to be there, right, So whatever's doing the 257 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.320 echo locating in lank Champlain ain't supposed to be there. 258 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:06.720 Yes, it's certainly weird. I'm again if I've told you 259 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:10.519 in the audience many times, cryptozoology is in my wheelhouse. 260 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.600 But I've always been fascinated as a child, and lake 261 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:14.960 monsters are one of the things I've been most fascinated with. 262 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:20.799 Lake monsters and sea serpents. There's something very i don't know, primal, 263 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.279 or there's something very mysterious again, like we were talking 264 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:25.840 about night before. But the water is something which is 265 00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:31.559 a place which we're not really designed to spend time 266 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.840 in as opposed to the creatures that might live in there. 267 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:38.600 So there's an extra scare or an extra perhaps psychological 268 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:43.000 predisposition to think something in the water might be alien 269 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.600 or foreign or threatening to us. And certainly, certainly, I 270 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:51.360 often think of all the cryptozoological stories out there, of 271 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.759 all the things, if there are physical creatures that are 272 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:57.440 well and truly, you know, not just an undiscovered fish 273 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:00.519 or something, but something like you know, a sea burnt 274 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.039 or you know a really plessia saw, or an undiscovered, 275 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.919 very strange, larger creature. I think the waters are probably 276 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.279 where they would be, maybe more likely the sea than 277 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.720 interior lakes. But some of these lakes have supposedly entry 278 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.360 ways to you know, to like Lockness I think is 279 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.480 meant to be accessible what used to be. I think 280 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.799 there are dams and things there now, but it used 281 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.000 to be accessible I think to the North Sea or 282 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.639 wherever somewhere there right via river. 283 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.519 So yeah, the river nests actually does go out to 284 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.759 the ocean, uh and the and they've actually been so 285 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.279 funny story about that. And we'll come back to Keeler's 286 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:41.120 but although she's she was literally just in Scotland doing 287 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:48.200 what I saw. Yeah, yeah, so it absolutely connects. So really, 288 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:53.360 the modern sightings of NeSSI don't occur until that, until 289 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:58.639 that causeway is actually built allowing larger boats access to 290 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.720 lockness from the sea. So, yes, the river nest has 291 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.359 always existed and it's technically always had access to the 292 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.200 ocean and how the salmon get in. But there's several 293 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.599 areas of the river nest where it's very shallow, very 294 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:16.440 very shallow. But once that this sort of you know, 295 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.119 causeway was built so ships can come in and out, 296 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.480 much larger ships. It's after that that we get the 297 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:29.200 sort of modern lockedness sightings. So it's a kid. Garrett 298 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:32.880 has speculated that it may be while there's accounts of 299 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:37.319 weirdness in the lock going back, the fact that it 300 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.599 doesn't that we don't really have a lot of modern 301 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:43.359 settings until that causeway is built is very very telling 302 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.480 that this may be something that's actually coming and going 303 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.240 out of the lock. So and yeah, again, Lake Champlain 304 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.079 freshwater lake odds are it's probably not connected to the 305 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:55.880 ocean somewhere that we are aware of, but it is 306 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:58.720 very deep, it's very very large. The simple fact of 307 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.279 the matter is, I'm with you that again. My favorite stuff, 308 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.119 even though you know what I saw was air was airborne. 309 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.519 I'm a big fan of water monsters, I really am. 310 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:12.480 My favorite CRYPTI is is Champ not Champ Caddy. Sorry, 311 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:14.119 I was just I had Champ on the mind because 312 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.000 it's like Champlain Caddy the cad Borsaurus, right, That's my 313 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.039 favorite thing, And what I find really interesting about what Again, 314 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:25.319 Katy Elizabeth has probably one of the best years of 315 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.960 any cryptis who all just this year, and one of 316 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:32.240 the things I find very very intriguing about her work 317 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:38.119 in research is that if it is echolocation that we're hearing, right, Jen, 318 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:41.400 and that's what it's you know again, it sounds like 319 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.519 echo location. But until we have the creature, we kind of, 320 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.599 you know, we can actually observe it. We don't know 321 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:50.240 that's what it's doing precisely, though it's a solid theory. 322 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.880 It actually suggests that what we're looking for is mammalian 323 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.240 and that matches very neatly with the cad or a 324 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:04.440 source which is been reported by some to have essentially 325 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.880 a main on the back of its head, and people 326 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.039 talking about having that sort of a horse like head. 327 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:15.599 I think as Zulidan fits or something. Xulodan is a 328 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:21.720 classic name for a Basillosaurus. I prefer ulidan. I just 329 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:24.640 I think it sounds cooler than the best than a basillo. Source. 330 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.599 But those are ancient whales, they don't, you know. They 331 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.000 depending on how they're rendered, they would look like a 332 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.599 very very aggressive maybe beluga whale, right, both the more 333 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.440 narrow face, but something of that nature, not necessarily of 334 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:49.160 that exact genus, but something more in say the porpoise family, 335 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.319 you know, or that we would that's how we would 336 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.160 see them, just maybe something a little bit older, something 337 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.599 a little less adapted to the modern world, which is 338 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:01.480 why the population is so low. I think that's very concept. 339 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:04.160 I think Ry mackell suggested way back in the day 340 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:06.400 in his luck Miss book that it was could be 341 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.720 some type of unknown or large as seal variant, like 342 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:12.799 it might be something like that. Yes, I think it 343 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:14.839 was something for so that would go with the mammal 344 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.839 position you were talking about before as well. 345 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:21.119 Yes, yes, seal sort of these massive seals have been 346 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.400 theorized for since like the eighteen hundreds. Actually I just 347 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:29.880 forgot the name. There's one, oh man, I cannot remember 348 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:33.440 the name of it. But he had actually, yeah, there 349 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.599 were claims to have seen something that he claimed that 350 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.359 he thought was a giant seal. So that's very much 351 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.720 on the table as well. Since we don't know, we 352 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.640 don't know of seals echo locating though, that's why I'm 353 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.960 I'm not opposed to it in any stretch of the imagination. 354 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.519 But since we have this, it's like, you know that 355 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:54.920 it fits, since we since we see such a variety 356 00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:00.599 in porpoise physiology, I wouldn't be surprised or something like 357 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:05.200 Azulugan still being around our Basilla's horse, but something of 358 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.119 that family. It's some sort of an ancient whale that 359 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.599 we know echo locates and can take on different body shapes, 360 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:14.160 and we have fossil evidence of them having sharp teeth 361 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:17.400 and longer faces. It seems like a can fit. But again, 362 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.319 until we got a body right, we don't know. Horse 363 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.079 had a great question. 364 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.440 Yeah, I was kind to throw it up for you. 365 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:23.839 There you go. 366 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.200 Yeah, So I actually in my in my book talked 367 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:29.640 to you know, I actually got a chance to talk 368 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.960 to the interview the gentleman who headed up the e 369 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:38.519 DNA search at Luckness. H e DNA is a really 370 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:45.559 fascinating thing. And what's interesting is theoretically you can get 371 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.559 a really really good look at the biodiversity of any 372 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.279 you know, really anywhere, but specifically water right any you know, 373 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:55.799 lakes and things like that, you can get a really 374 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:59.839 good chance. I'm not convinced that if the population is 375 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:02.039 all enough that can still go undetected, Like you kind 376 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.720 of still have to get lucky right to get that DNA. 377 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.440 So if the population is small enough or transitory, like 378 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.160 we were talking about with lockness, if it's coming in 379 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:13.400 and out and it's not there all the time again, 380 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:17.559 then you're you're probably not going to get those that DNA. Additionally, 381 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:23.880 the real sort of asterisk that needs to be mentioned 382 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:27.240 with the DNA, the DNA kind of has to already 383 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.240 be on record, Like we It's like drugs, right, if 384 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:32.880 you test somebody, you can only test them for the 385 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.440 drugs you know exist, and so if you don't, if 386 00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:38.279 you have if they've taken a drug that you don't 387 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:41.200 know exists, you can't test for it. It's kind of 388 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:43.039 in the same thing. We kind of have this idea 389 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:45.880 that if we that you'll run all the DNA's like, hey, 390 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.680 here's DNA we don't recognize. That's not really the case. 391 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.119 You kind of have to have something to bounce it 392 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.160 off of. And if the DNA is close enough to 393 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:58.720 something that you would recognize, like my question would was 394 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:00.480 the idea of giant eels. 395 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:04.000 That was what the New Zealand academic team is several 396 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:05.920 years ago, and it made the news. It was a 397 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.480 very front page story because supposedly they found a lot 398 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.519 of eel DNA in the walk. So the theory was 399 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.160 perhaps the Lockness monster is a large eel because supposedly 400 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.079 eels that live for a very long time, you're almost 401 00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:22.240