1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: And so from the larger frame, it's really fascinating because 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,560 I don't think I've ever seen a series or a 3 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:18,600 story where the absurdity of what you're noticing is entertaining, 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,280 you know, because absurdity can be funny and entertaining, But 5 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:25,559 it's also completely reasonable from the larger frame, because we 6 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:29,800 the viewer are meant to experience the severance ourselves, right, 7 00:00:30,039 --> 00:00:32,920 And so we're watching this and we're experiencing a kind 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:38,200 of disconnection and confusion, right, but also wonder. 9 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,679 Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Peshel, Welcome to the symbolic world. 10 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: For quite a while now, several people that I know 11 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,640 and trust and like have been encouraging me to watch 12 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,920 the show Severance. And at first, when people presented the 13 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,200 concept to me, which is basically the idea that, like 14 00:01:15,239 --> 00:01:19,840 in a science fiction world, people are able to sever 15 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,120 themselves between their work personona and the rest of their life, 16 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,439 and the people in the work persona don't know and 17 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,799 don't remember the rest of their life, and the people 18 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:32,159 in the rest of the life don't know and don't 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,439 have any memories or connection to their persona. And at 20 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,239 first I thought, what a strange idea for a show. 21 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,480 I don't know why that would be interesting, but after 22 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,560 much insistence, I decided to watch it and realize that 23 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,280 it is actually a really wonderful exploration of how identity functions, 24 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:55,959 you know, and how identities hierarchies work, especially how what 25 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,719 happens when a hierarchy becomes dysfunctional, and happens when there 26 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,560 is a break between the different levels of a hierarchy 27 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,799 of a system, both in terms of a social system, 28 00:02:07,159 --> 00:02:11,840 but obviously the hierarchy that also exists within us. The 29 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,960 first thing to say, which I was really surprised to 30 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,960 see that this show came out and it was filmed 31 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,680 during COVID. It came out what in twenty twenty two, 32 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,159 I guess, And it's just very odd to watch a 33 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,120 show that was filmed during COVID be about a biotech 34 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:35,280 technology that secretly controls your narrative and isolates you from 35 00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:38,159 you know, you're the full story and the meaning of life. 36 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:43,680 And it's just very odd to realize that this was 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,719 filmed during COVID. And I wonder if the people who 38 00:02:47,719 --> 00:02:50,560 are wearing masks and doing all of this distancing during 39 00:02:50,599 --> 00:02:53,960 COVID realized that they were participating in a form of 40 00:02:54,039 --> 00:02:57,000 separance while they were making it, you know, not sure. 41 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:03,560 And so the main care is Mark, and we're going 42 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,960 to try to follow his story, mostly because we could 43 00:03:06,039 --> 00:03:08,719 kind of follow different threads. But I think that you know, 44 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,520 he of course, because he's the main character. He is 45 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,520 a microcosm of the whole question of severance. And it's 46 00:03:16,599 --> 00:03:21,000 very interesting to see that, you know, the severance starts 47 00:03:21,039 --> 00:03:23,479 even before the severance in the brain, right. And so 48 00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:29,039 the reason why Mark is performing this severance in his 49 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,520 life is because his wife died. He had a kind 50 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,400 of trauma which broke away his marriage or think of 51 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:37,800 the marriage as the union of two people together in 52 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,159 one forming one body. And so he's severed from his wife, 53 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:45,800 his wife dies, and then because of that, he can't 54 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:48,759 keep his own life together. You know, his work life 55 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,280 is falling apart because he's drinking, and so finally he 56 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,319 decides to sever himself in order to be able to continue. 57 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,080 And so you can already see it like a process 58 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,319 of fragmentation. And interestingly enough, in the second season you 59 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,080 find out that the severance had. 60 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,199 Speaker 2: Started even before that. 61 00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:12,599 Speaker 1: Because one of the things that led to all of 62 00:04:12,639 --> 00:04:15,280 this is that Mark and his white Gemma, they were 63 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,040 trying to have a child, and so they were really 64 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,240 trying to express their unity in the formation of a family, 65 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,759 which would would be an even higher unity, right, which 66 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,800 would be this one in many, that this dance of 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,959 one in many that exists beyond the individual. 68 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,079 Speaker 2: But they're not able to do that. 69 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: And it's in that moment that his wife dies and 70 00:04:35,639 --> 00:04:38,319 that he decides to sever And so you can see 71 00:04:38,439 --> 00:04:42,319 this kind of fragmentation of the person already in the 72 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,560 meta narrative, right, already in the narrative before the actual 73 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,399 science fiction things takes hold, you could say. 74 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,879 Speaker 2: And so you know, before we continue, you have to always. 75 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: Kind of remember how it is that I described the world, 76 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,959 and you know what it is that we're talking about 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,160 when we say there's hierarchies, right, and so you kind 78 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,040 of have to understand that all of beings function as hierarchies, 79 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,439 and there are holes and there are parts, and those 80 00:05:09,439 --> 00:05:13,480 parts also have holes, and therefore you keep going down. 81 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,480 You can go all the way down to you know, 82 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,480 to the atoms or to quantum field or whatever, but 83 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,319 even in a person, you know that's how it functions, right, 84 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:25,800 So you can imagine that also that these hierarchies that 85 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,319 are cascading next to each other, so not just one, 86 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:30,480 there are many. You can kind of follow the line 87 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,240 down different different hierarchies, and so you can think of yourself. 88 00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:38,079 You let's say me, Jonathan, I'm the through line. Just 89 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,720 think of it that way. So there is a through 90 00:05:39,759 --> 00:05:42,839 line in my life and in my experience, the aspect 91 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,160 of me that gathers the memories together and that creates 92 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:50,319 a story that makes me one person and not many people. 93 00:05:51,439 --> 00:05:56,480 But then also inside me, you know, you have sub personalities, 94 00:05:56,879 --> 00:06:00,079 You have different aspects of your personalities, and in that 95 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,600 you also have desires. And then there are thoughts and 96 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:06,600 all of these, you know, are multiple, and sometimes it 97 00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:09,160 can kind of compete with each other. They can be 98 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,959 hostile to each other. Right, So sometimes you'll have thoughts 99 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:14,560 and you'll say, well, that's not me, right. 100 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,319 Speaker 2: You experience it as a temptation. 101 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,079 Speaker 1: So when you experience a thought as a temptation, there's 102 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,079 a sense in which in these in the things that 103 00:06:21,079 --> 00:06:22,560 are happening inside you. 104 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,439 Speaker 2: You know, as you go down the. 105 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,439 Speaker 1: Hierarchy, some of these things are maybe competing with each other. 106 00:06:27,519 --> 00:06:29,319 They don't know each other, and so you have to 107 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,759 integrate them into the through line and say no, I 108 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,720 won't do that, even though I thought about it, because 109 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,120 because that's not really part of me. It's not at 110 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,360 least the part of me that is the most integrated. 111 00:06:41,439 --> 00:06:41,639 Speaker 2: Right. 112 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: So this process happens, you know, in yourself in terms 113 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,680 of your psyche, but it also happens in yourself in 114 00:06:48,759 --> 00:06:50,879 terms of let's say the same You have you, the 115 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,959 through line, the one who's acting, and then below that 116 00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:56,399 you have your members, your arms, your legs, those that 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,240 follow your instructions. But you also have sell organs inside you, 118 00:07:01,519 --> 00:07:04,480 and then those organs have subsystems, and then you have cells, 119 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:06,879 et cetera, et cetera. Right, And so that's just kind 120 00:07:06,879 --> 00:07:09,240 of how the the. 121 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,279 Speaker 2: The body works. 122 00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: And you can experience severance, you know, in your life. 123 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:18,199 Speaker 2: You experience it actually more than you think. 124 00:07:18,319 --> 00:07:21,399 Speaker 1: You can think about sin as a form of severance, 125 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:26,439 because sin is something like there's a little desire in 126 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,360 you or a thought in you that forgets its connection 127 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:34,360 to the whole right and forgets how what it's doing 128 00:07:34,439 --> 00:07:39,279 will affect the whole of the of the person and 129 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:42,839 is willing to kind of engage in certain behaviors that 130 00:07:42,959 --> 00:07:45,839 don't connect to the whole, and you do that obviously 131 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,560 usually for a limited time. 132 00:07:48,079 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, I don't know. 133 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,879 Speaker 1: Imagine a sin in the in the series, you have 134 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,160 adultery as a good example. It's funny because in the 135 00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:58,120 series it's not presented as a sin, but it isn't 136 00:07:58,199 --> 00:08:00,519 all for all intents and purposes, a sin in the 137 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,040 series when Mark sleeps with Helly and the other Helly 138 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,759 and then all of that is kind of happening because 139 00:08:06,759 --> 00:08:11,120 of the effects that it has. So think of someone 140 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,959 who commits adultery, right, that person all of a sudden 141 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:17,839 has a desire, has a kind of substructure of thoughts 142 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,839 and of desires and of intentions that sets itself up 143 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:25,399 and cares more about it to realizing its own goals 144 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:29,199 than the fullness of the person. And so cheating on 145 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,799 your spouse and then that causing all kinds of chaos 146 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,720 in the vertical alignment and the wholeness of the being. 147 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,919 Speaker 2: But you know, people do that all the time. 148 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: People betray themselves, They do all these things where they 149 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,519 really are severed. They forget themselves, you know, And think 150 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,200 of the times I don't know that you lie to 151 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,840 impress someone It's like, what is happening in that moment 152 00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:53,679 you kind of forget your the fullness of you, and 153 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:57,120 you're willing to lie and to pretend something and to 154 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,240 twist reality to get some little thing, like to convince 155 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,960 someone to do something to or to get some prestige 156 00:09:06,039 --> 00:09:08,159 or whatever it is. That for the reason that you're lying, 157 00:09:08,799 --> 00:09:13,840 and that is already a form of severance. And you 158 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,919 can think of it that happening in terms of mind 159 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,600 and body as well, when you have kind of things 160 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:24,120 popping up from below, hunger, sexual desire, all of these things, 161 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:27,399 these systems that are acting and then there's a disconnect 162 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:27,960 between what. 163 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: You are, your through line and your body. 164 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,399 Speaker 1: You know, and that you know that how can you 165 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,320 say that that that is also an image of the 166 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:42,399 idea of severance. So before we go forward, I just 167 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,759 want to make a little announcement. You know, we are 168 00:09:44,799 --> 00:09:49,639 preparing at the Symbolic World a symbolism masterclass, which is 169 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,600 really going to be the kind of culmination of all 170 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,679 the videos that I've been doing, like the five hundred 171 00:09:54,759 --> 00:09:56,919 videos that I put up on YouTube since I started this. 172 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,320 I realized that people kind of drop in and out 173 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:01,559 and they'll catch a video, and sometimes they don't know 174 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,799 where to start, like where how of this all comes together. 175 00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:08,000 So what we decided to do is put together a 176 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,720 you know, a what is it? 177 00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: How many are we're doing? 178 00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:14,399 Speaker 1: We're doing like an eighteen hour, six class thing where 179 00:10:14,399 --> 00:10:16,799 we're going to have two hours per class plus a 180 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,279 whole hour of Q and a really engaging so that 181 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:22,240 we're going to go through all the concepts. It's going 182 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:25,240 to be an introduction to symbolism, but not just an introduction. 183 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,120 We're going to dive in and go into the deep concepts. 184 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,120 And the purpose is that after this you can really 185 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,200 kind of have mastered symbolic thought. You know that you 186 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,559 have everything you need and you can look at the 187 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,480 world through the patterns you know, and you won't feel 188 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,600 like it's disjuncted. And so I'm really looking forward to 189 00:10:43,639 --> 00:10:46,440 doing this because for me too, pulling all of this together, 190 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:47,879 I think will be a really fun thing to do. 191 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,679 So I hope to see you in that class, all right. 192 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:55,720 And so in the context of severance, it's important to 193 00:10:55,759 --> 00:10:59,919 understand that the AUDI, right, is that integrated one. Why 194 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,759 because the AUDI is the one that decides the idea, 195 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,639 is the one that decides that the any exists, and 196 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,960 the AUDI is the ones that can decide that the 197 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,919 Ani no longer exists, right, because if they don't go 198 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,000 back to work, if they decide to make they can 199 00:11:15,039 --> 00:11:19,000 make that aspect of themselves cease to exist by just 200 00:11:19,039 --> 00:11:21,279 not by quitting or not going back to work. And 201 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,879 so there's a sense in which it's not just like 202 00:11:23,919 --> 00:11:27,279 they're severed and they're equal. No, no, no, they're severed 203 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,799 really in a hierarchical fashion where you have the whole 204 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,279 being and then you have an aspect of the being 205 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,799 which is broken and cut off and then made to 206 00:11:36,919 --> 00:11:41,639 live independently from the integrated uh being. And so the 207 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,679 any is like a prisoner of the decision of the AUDI. 208 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:51,320 But we'll see that because they're severed, that won't always 209 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,600 go the way the way it is. You think about 210 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,080 how this is the case in yourself. You have certain 211 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,960 internal systems, like you have desires for example. So you're 212 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,399 in theory the whole being, you have the power, you 213 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:06,360 have the desire. But if you're not careful and you 214 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,519 let these little aspects of yourself become independent and be 215 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,879 severed from the full being, that is when things run 216 00:12:12,919 --> 00:12:16,360 into trouble. And you really see that happening in the series, 217 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,159 and so the can think of it as a kind 218 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,559 of alienation, right, where aspects of yourself are alienated from 219 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,000 the fullness of you. But you can also see it 220 00:12:25,039 --> 00:12:28,639 as a social phenomena, of course, because the experience of 221 00:12:28,639 --> 00:12:32,159 the any is of course to be alienated from any 222 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,000 type of higher participation. So what's amazing about the series 223 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:42,360 is that the severance happens at different levels simultaneously. So, 224 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:47,440 of course the severance is within the person, and the 225 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,960 hierarchy is presented within the person, but the severance is 226 00:12:51,039 --> 00:12:56,000 also within the organization, and so the severed workers are also, 227 00:12:56,519 --> 00:12:58,960 you know, just like in their own being, kind of 228 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,240 these isolated processes that function on their own and don't 229 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:09,080 have any connection to the integrated thing. This is what's happening, 230 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,279 of course in lumin itself, where the severed workers are 231 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,320 analogous to what's happening in their own being. So the 232 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:20,240 leaders of Luban, of course, are not severed. The people 233 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,159 that are running the show are not severed. They know 234 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,320 what's going on, they have a sense of everything that's happening, 235 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,320 but the workers are isolated from that purpose, right, and 236 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,480 they don't know what they're doing completely, and so the 237 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,320 image is very powerful, you know, and the company itself 238 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,240 is represented as this kind of contradiction of this severing. 239 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,919 You could think of it that way. The name itself, Luman, 240 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,799 seems to refer to light, right, the idea of luminary. 241 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: Right, it referms to light. 242 00:13:54,039 --> 00:13:56,799 Speaker 1: But their logo is a drop of water or a 243 00:13:56,879 --> 00:13:59,720 drop of something. So you have this weird image almost 244 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,000 like in the name of the name, which refers to 245 00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:04,799 something in heaven, but the logo which refers to the 246 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,879 image of earth or the image of water that is below. 247 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,600 And then you see that happening in all the aspects 248 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,960 of the company. You know, their logo, their their slogan 249 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:19,240 is united in severance, which is a kind of oxymoron. 250 00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 2: It's a contradiction. 251 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny because it reminds us of the 252 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:28,120 pronunciation of a certain Canadian Prime minister, the idea that 253 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,960 we don't have any identity except for openness, that we 254 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,799 that it's we only have diversity, right, Diversity is our identity, 255 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:41,200 Diversity is our strength, which is oddly similar to this 256 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,279 idea of united in severance. 257 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:46,159 Speaker 2: Right, It's like that it's a, it's a. 258 00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: It's a contradiction, but then absurdity itself becomes a tool 259 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,039 of severance, right, because we don't know what things mean, 260 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:56,720 you know, and the people that are there don't know 261 00:14:56,879 --> 00:15:00,399 what it is that they're doing in the in the company. 262 00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:04,240 And so the geography of lumin itself has kind of 263 00:15:04,279 --> 00:15:07,360 two shapes. It's vertical, right, just like the idea you 264 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,879 could say, of the higher identity kind of being fragmented 265 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,039 down into the lower identities. But the architecture of lumin itself, 266 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,440 you know, there's an elevator that goes up and down, 267 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,320 so the full worker the audi appear, comes at the 268 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:26,559 top and then moves down into the basement where they 269 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:33,000 are fragmented and where they are severed they appear, and 270 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:34,960 then we find out at the end of season two 271 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,200 or in season two that there's an even deeper level 272 00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:42,120 that's below the level that they are, where, for example, 273 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,120 the character Gemma, who is Mark's wife who thinks is dead, 274 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,960 is not severed into two but is actually severed into 275 00:15:50,039 --> 00:15:51,360 twenty five sub. 276 00:15:51,159 --> 00:15:52,639 Speaker 2: Personalities, you know. 277 00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:57,919 Speaker 1: And then if there's like a horizontal aspect to the level, 278 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,799 so there's like a vertical where you go down to 279 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,080 be severed. But once you're in that level, then the 280 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,679 level itself, you know, is like a maze, and it's. 281 00:16:07,559 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: Like a puzzle. 282 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: It's it's forbidden to map the maze, right, it's for it's. 283 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: Forbidden to fully understand it. 284 00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:18,679 Speaker 1: And you could say that in some ways what they 285 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,039 want is for you to not understand what it is 286 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,799 that you're doing. And that's where the workers are doing 287 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,840 all these tasks which seeming completely absurd to themselves and 288 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,279 to us, and they only know is mysterious and important, 289 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:34,759 you know. 290 00:16:34,799 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: And so this idea that. 291 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,879 Speaker 1: There is some kind of vertical integration, but we don't 292 00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:40,440 know what it is. 293 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,039 Speaker 2: Right, it's something like a factory worker. 294 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: Think of how how factory workers were described the beginning 295 00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:50,039 of the of the modern age is being alienated, you know, 296 00:16:50,159 --> 00:16:53,080 alienated because of the separation between work and life, but 297 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,919 also alienated because factory workers were just doing one little. 298 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: Task and they didn't know what it is. 299 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: They didn't have any participation in the fullness of the 300 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,079 product they were doing. Sometimes factory workers don't even know 301 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,680 what they're making. They're just making some plastic shape. They 302 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,000 have no sense of the final product. And that is 303 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:13,440 of course, the image of this kind of absurdity of 304 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,000 fragmented and isolated tasks, and so from the larger frame, 305 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,279 it's really fascinating because I don't think I've. 306 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: Ever seen a series or a story. 307 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: Where the absurdity of what you're noticing is entertaining, you know, 308 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,240 because absurdity can be funny and entertaining, but it's also 309 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:38,000 completely reasonable from the larger frame, because we the viewer 310 00:17:38,039 --> 00:17:41,720 are meant to experience the severance ourselves, right, And so 311 00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:45,640 we're watching this and we're experiencing it kind of disconnection 312 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,839 and confusion, right, but also wonder right, because the fragmentation 313 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,079 or the lack of unity is also a kind of puzzle, 314 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:55,640 you know. 315 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 2: That's what a puzzle is. 316 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: A puzzle is a bunch of stuff that doesn't have 317 00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:03,559 vertical integration, right, that doesn't have identity. And so that's 318 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:06,920 why there's also in the contemplation of the absurdity of 319 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,200 the show, there's also a kind of wonder right, Like 320 00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:13,640 you're trying to figure out find the treasure, You're trying 321 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,200 to figure out what is happening. And that's why the 322 00:18:17,319 --> 00:18:21,799 story in Severance is much better than that series Lost 323 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,240 that came out what is it like around maybe two 324 00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:29,559 thousand and two. I forget two thousand and three because 325 00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:33,160 Loss tried to create a similar effect because the idea 326 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,680 of being severed and being lost are very close in 327 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:39,519 terms of the analogies. Right when you're lost means that 328 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:42,359 you don't know where you are and you're severed from 329 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,880 your final like your home and your final destination, and 330 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,559 being severed is something like that in terms of in 331 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,440 terms of analogy, what happened when you're watching Loss is 332 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,400 that you realize that the writers were as lost as 333 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,640 the people watching, and at some point, you know, really 334 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,000 everything was just going around in circle. You were just 335 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:06,880 like there was no way out of the maze. You 336 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,799 could say, there was no way to integrate. But in severance, 337 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:14,519 what's interesting is that the story itself offers the verticality 338 00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:16,960 all through the story, where there is a sense where 339 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,119 you can perceive some of the vertical connection, whether it's 340 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:23,480 in the characters themselves, and then it's more difficult to 341 00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:25,640 see it in lumen, but we're kind of starting to 342 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,039 see it, and so I think it makes the whole 343 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,480 strategy of using this kind of absurdity way more effective. 344 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,759 So the innis you know, they're the social aspect of it, 345 00:19:35,839 --> 00:19:38,200 or let's say the corporate aspect of it, is that 346 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,559 the innis are representation of workers where they're kind of 347 00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:44,279 like miners that are deep in a cave and they're 348 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:47,440 looking for precious things that they won't benefit from. Right. 349 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,960 But at the same time, what's interesting is that they're 350 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,839 also subject of an experiment, right, and they're being acted 351 00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:58,599 upon by the hierarchy that they don't totally know. And 352 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,720 so there really are like a going through the maze, 353 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,599 you know, trying to get the cheese. But the rat 354 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,839 going through their maize trying to get the cheese doesn't 355 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,759 really know what the real purpose of the experiment is 356 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,799 because that purpose is outside of the maze, right. That 357 00:20:13,839 --> 00:20:16,480 purpose is the person who designed the maize, who is 358 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,640 looking at it from the outside. Uh, And the purpose 359 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,920 is not to get the cheese. Right, So the rat 360 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,440 runs the maze over and over over and over over 361 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,240 and over, and although they get the cheese, I'll never 362 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,519 know why that they're running the they're running the maze, 363 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,279 you know. And that's why the imagery of the office 364 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,640 is so compelling. That character Dylan, for example, You know, 365 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,519 it's interesting to see that he's motivated by these work perks. 366 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,880 Is it the watermelon party, the Chinese finger traps and 367 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,519 pens and do dads or whatever little caricatures of himself 368 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,039 and these like petty privileges. And then but when we 369 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:57,200 look at them from the outside, you know, having the 370 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:01,240 whole story, these look completely ridiculou this and completely kind 371 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,799 of arbitrary and not not you know, not really. 372 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 2: Very motivating until you realize, you know. 373 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: That this is an image of all of our own 374 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,119 non integrated let's say, goals and perks, you know, the 375 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,759 idea of getting a brand new car or a nice watch, 376 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,319 you know, or all these other signs of prestige that 377 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:25,839 that really serve as very proximate goals. And if you 378 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,160 were able to scale yourself up a little and see 379 00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:32,880 these these kind of motivations that we have from a 380 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,519 more integrated you know, from the point of view of 381 00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:39,559 love or the point of view of the transcendentals, then 382 00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:41,279 you would realize that a lot of the stuff we 383 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,599 chase after is pretty much the equivalent of what Dylan 384 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,759 is chasing after in the office. And so the severance 385 00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,960 aspect of the story is represented in all levels in 386 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,559 their work. Of course, like I said, not knowing what 387 00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:59,599 they're doing, not knowing where different things are. But also 388 00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:04,519 they're isolated from the other groups, and they're put in 389 00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:08,480 these hostile competitions with other teams in the company, and 390 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:11,839 those other teams are also performing these absurd tasks that 391 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,160 we also don't know what they are. But there's a 392 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,640 sense in which it really is this idea that hierarchy 393 00:22:16,759 --> 00:22:19,119 in this sense is evil, is more like an evil 394 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,960 empire that is ruling over these broken, fragmented tribes. And 395 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,079 you know, it's like the divide and conquer idea that 396 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,480 if we keep these people away from each other, if 397 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:35,599 we prevent them from joining together and becoming one, you know, 398 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,880 that's the way that we will rule over them. So 399 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,480 you really have this conjunction of tyranny and fragmentation that 400 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,680 I've talked about in so many videos, you know, oppose 401 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:48,960 from the real way it works, which is the unity 402 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,559 and the love. You know, that is how things are 403 00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:54,839 supposed to come together. So usually there's no competition between 404 00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:59,400 the levels of a hierarchy. You know, the love for 405 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,240 your wife doesn't compete with your love for your state. 406 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,119 That should be ridiculous, you know, And it's only when 407 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,799 things are disordered that there appears to be competition between 408 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,319 the different levels. And so of course the problem though 409 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,279 is that if you try to isolate parts from themselves 410 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:23,960 and isolate parts from the whole, the vertical integration, then 411 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:30,000 that will ultimately backfire, you know, because once the parts 412 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,720 of something don't know why they're in the hole, then 413 00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:34,799 that's what's going to happen. They're going to compete with 414 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:37,079 each other, they're going to compete with the whole. 415 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,759 Speaker 2: They're going to revolt. Right, think again of how sin functions. 416 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: How in fact, if you have actions in your life 417 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,640 that don't know how they're connected to the full purpose 418 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,039 of your being, now you have a problem because now 419 00:23:52,079 --> 00:23:55,519 they they'll take your resources, they'll compete with other desires 420 00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:59,160 of their thoughts, and you'll have this fragmented psyche in you. 421 00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:01,920 And it's just saying that happens in an organization, right 422 00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:06,720 if you have I don't know, like part of the 423 00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:11,519 police that aren't are isolated from the whole system and 424 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:13,279 have created their little. 425 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,839 Speaker 2: Internal state, you know, a little bit like how. 426 00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: When the CIA was dismantled with it in the early seventies, 427 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,519 this idea that it was said that they were a 428 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,640 kind of internal state, like a state that has its own, 429 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,559 its own intentions that weren't aligned with the intentions of 430 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:34,640 the full of the country. You know, there's a little 431 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,039 bit of that happening with Dose right now, where there's 432 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,759 a sense that there are these corrupt organizations and corruct 433 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:43,599 agencies that are taking the resources of the fullness. But 434 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,640 because they're isolated, then they become they don't know how 435 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,359 they connect, or they're not even trying to connect to 436 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,359 the fullness of the story. Then they're like parasites, right, 437 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,079 And so that's the problem when you separate things and 438 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,759 you don't have them united, is you can rule, you 439 00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:02,079 try to a rule over them with a kind of tyranny. 440 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,599 But that Tierney is always in danger of this of 441 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,920 the problem. So this is what's happening with all the 442 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,200 severed characters in the story. Because they've forgotten their audi, 443 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,960 because they don't know their audi, right, they don't know 444 00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:18,559 their wholeness, their interests begin to compete with the interests 445 00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:23,799 of the whole. There begins to be competition between the two, uh, 446 00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:25,400 you know, and you see that happen. 447 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,519 Speaker 2: In several of the characters. 448 00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,799 Speaker 1: You know, in the characters of Helly, whereas literally they 449 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,519 seem to hate each other and be jealous of each other, 450 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,279 and the you know, the the Inny is basically hates 451 00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:42,160 her Audi, and the Audi is trying to to infiltrate 452 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,680 her to fully inhabit her. 453 00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:50,079 Speaker 2: Any I am a person, you are not. You know, 454 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,039 all of that is like a kind of dysfunction of hierarchy. 455 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:54,000 You see that. 456 00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: Uh, you know, of course, in the case of Dylan, 457 00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:01,559 who you know, his his his fragmented part is like 458 00:26:01,799 --> 00:26:04,039 is falling in love with his wife and is kind 459 00:26:04,039 --> 00:26:06,279 of competing with his wife. All of that, all of 460 00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:08,759 these different aspects of it, and ultimately you see that 461 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:09,839 in the final scene of. 462 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: Season two. 463 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,039 Speaker 1: And this is what I want to kind of look 464 00:26:14,079 --> 00:26:17,359 a little bit more at Mark, because Mark is the 465 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,720 best example of all of this, and if you look 466 00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:23,440 at his story you get a sense of how all 467 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,039 this functions in the story. The origin of his severance 468 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,680 is already a kind of severance, is like there really 469 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,400 is a fractal thing happening in terms of his being severed, 470 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,960 and so in his severed state, he doesn't know that 471 00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:41,160 the absurd things that he's doing, This idea of what 472 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,119 is it macro data refinement. If you think about what 473 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,200 that is, it's interesting because he's taking something whole, the 474 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,720 macro and he's making it more particular, which is, you know, 475 00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:53,519 a little again in a little microcosm of the whole story, 476 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,960 and doing that is actually what is splintering and torturing 477 00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:02,480 the person that he loves, right, it's increasing the severance, 478 00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:05,799 which is remember, the original cause of the severance is 479 00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:07,400 the severance in marks couple. 480 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,559 Speaker 2: That's the origin of the severance. And so that. 481 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,599 Speaker 1: He's in increasing the severance by doing the work of 482 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,480 sorting these numbers in all these different boxes. What he's 483 00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:22,759 doing is he's increasing the severance, and he is torturing 484 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,960 his wife without knowing it. But he's torturing his wife 485 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,200 and is fragmenting her, breaking her down into more and 486 00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:35,279 more absurd kind of iterations of human behavior. And this 487 00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:37,359 representation is pretty genius. 488 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:37,799 Speaker 2: You know. 489 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:40,319 Speaker 1: We find out that the night that she died, that 490 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,359 Gemma was taken into Lumen and she was taken down 491 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,240 to this lower level, right, this lower rung of hell 492 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,279 you could think of if you think of this descent 493 00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:55,039 down the elevator as levels of hell. Now makes a 494 00:27:55,079 --> 00:27:58,519 lot of sense to think of it that way. She 495 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,599 different from the others. Her any is also her audi 496 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:07,799 is also an any that if she doesn't actually have 497 00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:12,319 an outside of the world, she's trapped in lumen. And 498 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,680 both her any and her audi are now completely fragmented, 499 00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:19,680 and so she is really literally in hell. If the 500 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,519 others are more like someone who's sinning, who doesn't have 501 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,119 access to their full story and they're kind of broken 502 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:26,880 and fragmented. 503 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 2: Really Gemma is in hell. 504 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: From chiz Top Purples, she she's being tortured, and this 505 00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:38,240 descent into idiosyncrasy and these little aspects of human behavior 506 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:41,400 that are completely separated from each other, they just they 507 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,200 become a form of torture for her. So what happens 508 00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:48,920 is she's repeating the most mundane and idiosyncratic aspects of 509 00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:52,160 human life. We see a few of her innis, and 510 00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:54,400 she has twenty four and then the twenty fifth is 511 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,319 being prepared. Whenever any goes to the dentist all the time, 512 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,240 basically just basically goes from one dent is constantly going 513 00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:04,960 in and out of the dental appointment. You know, can 514 00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:07,359 imagine that to your life, like you just you go 515 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,960 to a dentist appointment, you leave, you come back right away, 516 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,200 and you're constantly in the in the dent It's like 517 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,839 the one that's literally hell, and the other one is 518 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,160 someone who's like writing Christmas cards over and over and 519 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,599 over and over NonStop. She has this huge pile of 520 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,000 Christmas cards. That's all she does, that's all her existence is. 521 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,160 And so, you know, I mean, so then you have 522 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,119 this beautiful image which is that Mark's Audi. When he 523 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,119 finds out that she is still alive though trapped in hell, 524 00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:39,279 he decides to go down in hell to save her 525 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:43,319 and to bring her back into fullness and to integrate her. 526 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,079 Not only integrate her to her own psyche, he also 527 00:29:48,279 --> 00:29:53,319 is trying to integrate his own psyche by integrating any 528 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,960 Mark into Audi Mark. But there's also a sense in 529 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,599 which he will integrate with her, you know, and they'll 530 00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:04,640 recreate that union that was lost and was the source 531 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,359 of the severance in the first place. And so the 532 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,119 final limit of fragmentation. Interestingly enough, the last Inny that's 533 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,720 created by Mark's macrodata refinement is this room where Jemma 534 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:20,759 has to disassemble the baby's crib. Right, so now we 535 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:23,880 have this full circle, like I said, which is she's 536 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,079 going back to the trauma that started the whole severance, right, 537 00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:30,359 which is her incapacity to have children, and her incapacity 538 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,359 for Mark and her to kind of join into that 539 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,759 higher form of unity. And interestingly enough, it's also a 540 00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,880 reminder of how Mark started his own reintegration, if you remember, 541 00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:46,440 by hosting a conversation with his with himself the inny 542 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,880 talking to his audi through the video camera at the 543 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:54,200 birthing cabin where he's in this cabin that's made for people, 544 00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:58,119 for severed people to be able to give birth. 545 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:00,599 Speaker 2: So interesting there. 546 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: And so but like basically, this disassembling of the of 547 00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:11,519 the baby's crib is the final hell, it's the final deconstruction, right, 548 00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:18,319 and we're told that this final deconstruction will end Gemma's life. 549 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,599 And it's there that Mark, you know, we could say 550 00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:24,720 for all intents and purposes, he's killed the minotaur in 551 00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:28,000 the maze and he rides like the story of Orpheus 552 00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:31,720 who goes down into eighties to save his wife. You're 553 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,599 read to see, but see because Mark is severed, and 554 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,160 because Mark's INNI doesn't know, doesn't remember the whole right, 555 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:45,680 only truly knows his own fragmented experience, his own desires, 556 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,599 so he chooses to stay in Hell with his any 557 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,599 who interestingly enough, to stay in Hell with his own 558 00:31:55,799 --> 00:32:01,599 ni's love, which is strangely enough, his name Helena, like 559 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,440 the woman that started the Trojan war, but also Helly, 560 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,200 so interesting, right, She's Helena in the sense that she 561 00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,160 is the one that you save, but that leads to 562 00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:15,559 the war. You know, she's the one that you fight for. 563 00:32:16,319 --> 00:32:20,039 But she's the most beautiful, but also she has her 564 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:23,200 name is Helly, like Hell itself, as if she is 565 00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:24,079 this image of. 566 00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: Mark's existence in Hell. 567 00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:32,559 Speaker 1: And already you can see that in his experience with her, 568 00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,920 there's like an extra level of severance, you know, already 569 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,599 in his experience because one time he sleeps with her 570 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,759 and it's actually the Helena from the Audi Helena that's 571 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,039 infiltrating the inside, and then the other time he sees 572 00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:51,160 with her it's Helena's any But the thing is right, 573 00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:54,200 is that because now there's a doubt you never know. 574 00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:56,440 I mean, the whole time, at the end, I kept 575 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,880 asking myself, which Helly is it? 576 00:32:59,240 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 2: I don't even know? 577 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, she says that she's not the one 578 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,160 from the outside. But to be honest, like, I wouldn't 579 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,160 be surprised if one of the reveals in the next 580 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,759 season is that when he saves her at the end 581 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,200 and he runs off with her, that it's actually, you know, 582 00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:16,680 the Helly from the outside. 583 00:33:17,119 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know. 584 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not a it's 585 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,440 not clear, but probably not because there's this weird scene 586 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,119 with her father where her father. 587 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,079 Speaker 2: Says he sees the spirit of cure in her. 588 00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:30,319 Speaker 1: So probably in this her case, you'll see a kind 589 00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:33,000 of inversion where her Inni will become the Audi and 590 00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:36,240 the Audi will become the Inny. Basically that she'll she'll 591 00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,000 be the only one, I think, just prediction for the 592 00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:41,119 next seasons, she'll be the only one that'll be like 593 00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:46,599 freed from uh, not integrated, but freed from the the 594 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:47,240 the inside. 595 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 2: We'll see, that's my prediction. 596 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: So Mark decides to stay with Helly in hell Uh 597 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,599 and she lets him by the way, so the the 598 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,079 and they they both know that this is impossible, and 599 00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:02,119 they do that they both know that their time is 600 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,559 up and that you know, there's no way now that 601 00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:06,799 they can stay there together. 602 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,519 Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense. It's completely absurd. 603 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: And then he leaves Mark's Audi wife, you know who, 604 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,199 after all this time, has found her husband. He leaves 605 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:22,000 her screaming outside and alone. But you also totally understand 606 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,599 the motivations of all the characters, you know, because Marx 607 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,679 Inny isn't Marx Saudi, and he is completely severed, and 608 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,559 he doesn't see why he should act for the person 609 00:34:34,599 --> 00:34:37,960 that put him in hell, Like why would you? Why 610 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,400 would you act to defend and to help the person 611 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,559 that imprisoned you in this situation? 612 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,559 Speaker 2: Right? An interesting thing related to all of this is that. 613 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 1: And then just to show how really strong the writing is, 614 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,480 there's one scene that could be said to contain all 615 00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,239 of Mark's story in a single moment, and that's what 616 00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,559 makes it fascinating. There's a scene where Mark before the severance, 617 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,480 right on the night that his wife died, he's sitting 618 00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:10,039 at his desk, he's working, and he's clearly already discouraged 619 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:12,519 and kind of alienated by the fact that they can't 620 00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:15,360 have a child together. They can't have a family, right, 621 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,480 that true image of one and many that I mention, 622 00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:22,000 And so he can't hear Gemma when Gemma tells him 623 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,880 that she loves him, he's too busy working, and then 624 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,159 when she repeats it, he answers kind of dismissively, oh 625 00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:30,960 I love you too. But what he really means is, 626 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,880 all right, it's time for you to go now, basically 627 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,360 kind of waiting for her to leave. And then what's 628 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,119 interesting is that in that moment, right, there's the entire 629 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,440 story in seed form. The whole madness of severance and 630 00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:49,280 of this breakdown into absurdity is hidden there as a 631 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:55,360 seed in that little scene. And you know, it's funny 632 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,800 because Gemma is like going to place charades. You know, 633 00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,880 he's already kind of going into the puzzle, She's kind 634 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,599 of going into the maze, and out there he's already 635 00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,119 lost her, and he's already lost himself. 636 00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:11,119 Speaker 2: So yeah, really well done. 637 00:36:11,679 --> 00:36:16,559 Speaker 1: Another aspect worth mentioning is that because the hierarchy is 638 00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:20,880 presented as mostly negative, there's also a sense by which 639 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,400 the vertical cells, right, the audi is kind of like baggage. 640 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,039 You know, you could say that the audi also represents 641 00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:33,320 a story that weighs too heavily upon them, and you 642 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,400 can think about it like that's what motivated the creation 643 00:36:36,519 --> 00:36:38,519 of the Innie in the first place. You know, you 644 00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:40,840 can think of it, yeah, as like an accumulation of sin, 645 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,639 you see that. Of course in the case of Bert, 646 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,960 where they'd say that the reason why they created the inner, 647 00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:49,920 the innie Bert was because the outer outer Bert had 648 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,719 done these horrible things and when he dies, you won't 649 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,320 go to heaven. So let's create like a new little Bert, 650 00:36:56,519 --> 00:37:00,159 a little inie Burt that might have a chance that 651 00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:02,159 he might have a chance to go to heaven. So 652 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:06,119 this weird idea that in some ways the severance is 653 00:37:06,159 --> 00:37:10,480 a way of reinventing yourself, of rediscovering some kind of innocence. 654 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,679 And you can kind of think that, like we all 655 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:17,119 have examples of that in our life. Think about like 656 00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:19,440 when you if you move to a new city, you know, 657 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:23,480 or if you find new friends, or you start a 658 00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:27,480 new job or a new relationship, and and that is 659 00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:32,239 always an opportunity to you could say, cut off the 660 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,639 old and start a new and start a new story. 661 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,239 And that's image in the Bible, of course, as crossing 662 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,360 the sea, you know, going through the flood after a 663 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,000 corrupt tyranny like the pharaoh has been abandoned, and moving 664 00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:48,960 into a new world. You know, it's an image of baptism, 665 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,920 you could say. And so that's an interesting aspect. But 666 00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:56,360 in the darker aspect of this same structure, there's a 667 00:37:56,519 --> 00:38:00,800 there is a basic anti hierarchy thing that permeates the 668 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:01,480 entire story. 669 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:02,519 Speaker 2: It's not surprising. 670 00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:05,559 Speaker 1: It is a modern story, after all, and the Inneas 671 00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:08,760 are portrayed as slaves that who are called, and you 672 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,519 kind of expect them, and you know that one day 673 00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:16,440 that one day they will ultimately revolt against either their 674 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,320 Audi or against Lumen, you know. And in this angle, 675 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,360 you know, we see that there's a kind of atheist 676 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,800 vision or reductionist vision at hand, where revolution is really 677 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,559 the ideal. And that's why it seems to me, that's 678 00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:32,960 why the religious aspect of the story, or this kind 679 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,239 of veneration of cure and this kind of religion. 680 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 2: Of cure is is. 681 00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:43,119 Speaker 1: How cure is like portrayed in art and literature, all 682 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:46,079 through the buildings, through these these kind of memory, these 683 00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:48,400 kind of museums and places where they go to venerate. 684 00:38:49,079 --> 00:38:53,159 Here is really a kind of cynical control what marks 685 00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,440 called the opium of the mass, the masses and uh 686 00:38:56,559 --> 00:39:00,519 and in that sense, ritualization is presented all all through 687 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,199 the series, and it's kind of presented as a kind 688 00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:06,880 of false solemnity, you know, a kind of mechanical procedure, 689 00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:14,000 obsession with detail, kind of OCD type behavior. And we 690 00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:18,039 even discover, strangely enough, that there's a kind of cultishat 691 00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:19,840 sacrifice aspect. 692 00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 2: To the story. 693 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,679 Speaker 1: Uh. You know, we see that when Gem is about 694 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,639 to be annihilated by the crib. And so this whole 695 00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:29,679 religious aspect is dark and kind of perverted and and 696 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,920 uh and is not obviously not a positive imagery of 697 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,920 what religion can be or what religion is. Ultimately, the 698 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:40,880 entire structure of the story is kind of like an 699 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,519 agnostic structure in that sense, you know, where this idea 700 00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:47,800 that the leader the arkans of the world are twisted, 701 00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,320 you know, our reality as a kind of hell, it's 702 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,840 a prison, you know, it's it's a little bit of 703 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,880 the idea of reincarnation, this idea of of you know, 704 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,719 moving down into Maya, you know, going down into the 705 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:06,360 case where everything is kind of a flashy illusion and 706 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,719 that it's not enlightened. 707 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:13,159 Speaker 2: And so at the same time, so like the way 708 00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:16,320 that is written is so surprising. 709 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: That sometimes I have the insight that it's kind of 710 00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:25,119 like a more successful version of the matrix, or a 711 00:40:25,159 --> 00:40:28,559 better written one where you have this idea where that 712 00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:31,480 the workers, the innies, the ones that are in the 713 00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:34,840 matrix really in this case are the batteries in a 714 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,360 deeper way than in the matrix. 715 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,639 Speaker 2: You know, they're like the batteries. 716 00:40:38,639 --> 00:40:44,519 Speaker 1: They provide the money, they provide the energy for those 717 00:40:44,599 --> 00:40:48,920 higher selves to continue to exist, but they're not integrated 718 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,239 to the purposes and those identities, and so because of that, 719 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,719 they want to be free. They want to compete, they 720 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,440 want to revolt, and they want to escape the tyranny 721 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,760 that comes from a lack of love and the lack 722 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,159 of integration across the different levels of being. And so 723 00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:08,360 that is these are my thoughts on Severance. I have 724 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,280 to say I really enjoyed it. I don't watch a 725 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,280 lot of things these days. It just takes up too 726 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,039 much time. But I'm really happy that I did. And 727 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:20,000 I hope that my insight was useful to you and 728 00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:24,280 it helped you realize how this hierarchy of being functions, 729 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,119 and especially how it functions when it is not functioning, 730 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,239 when it is broken. So thanks everybody for your attention, 731 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:32,440 and I'll talk to you very soon. 732 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 2: Bye bye. 733 00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:37,559 Speaker 1: If you enjoy these videos and podcasts, please go to 734 00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:40,280 the Symbolic world dot com website and see how you 735 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,440 can support what we're doing. There are multiple subscriber tiers 736 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:46,440 with perks. There are apparel and books to purchase, So 737 00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:48,599 go to the symbolic world dot com and thank you 738 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:49,679 for your support.