Speaker 1: All right, off of a weekend that has seen Sebastian
Fundora dismantle Keith Thurman. Although Keith disagreed with the fight
being stopped, he might be the only one. We'll talk
about the TKO win for the Towering Inferno and the
BBC on Prime pay per view. Also, Moses Etama continues
his rise. The British heavyweight phenom scores a tremendous knockout
in the Queensbury main event earlier our time on Saturday
in the UK. We're ready to recap those fights. We
got fight news. Floyd Mayweather's making fight news himself on
a fight weekend that doesn't involve him because it's supposedly
a legit fight with Manny Pacio. Unless Floyd has something
to say about it. We're going to talk about that.
A big anniversary for Bob Aerum as well. Stay tuned
for all of that. It is the Fight Freaks Unit recap.
I am the somewhat competent host TJ. Reeves. Hello, Dan Rayfield,
Fight Freak Night, the Substack, the newsletter. You should be
on board with that. You should be subscribed up. Good
to be back with you. We thank the audience for
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concluding another tremendous month of audience and growth. Keep it up.
The fight season is cranking up here with more bigger,
prominent fights. If you like what we're doing Ratis and
review Us, that helps. Let's get into it. How are things?
As we saw a couple of very impressive nights for
Fondora and Etama, I'm saying that how are things?
Speaker 2: Things are good? And I don't think you know, you
have to be a boxing savant to say that. There
were two very impressive performances by both those guys, as
well as frankly, some of the guys on the undercart
of the Keith Thurman against Sebastian Fundora fight that we
can get into. I'm looking forward to talking about that,
like Jos Teas and join Lee Hernandez and and those guys.
Speaker 1: All right, so we'll get into that in a moment
to the main event, the PBC on Prime main event.
We knew going in. You and I talked about it
on a preview. How does Keith Thurman try to solve
or solve the reach disadvantage and get inside and try
to make something happen happened ultimately here he could not
solve it and he was being pepper. There's a good
boxing word with big time shots. As this fight unfolded
and then was stopped in the sixth round, which we
will get to by Thomas Taylor. Clearly when the fight
became the fifth round. In the sixth round, Keith's eyes swelling,
forehead red from shots being landed. Fondora in complete control.
I thought, what did you think? And then we'll get
into the stoppage as Fondora retains the WBC Junior middlewaight title.
Speaker 2: Well TJ. The fact that Thurman had problems getting on
the inside against a guy who was nine inches taller
than him with an eleven inch reach advantage or go
with that is not a surprise because every single opponent
that Sebastian Vnor has ever faced his entire career has
faced similar disparities. I mean, you know, he's never going
to encounter in the history of boxing. Even if you
could go back to the beginning of the sport and
bring any junior middleweight you so desired or less frankly
into the fold of the current weight class, he will
be bigger and longer than every single other fighter in
the history of boxing in those weight classes, There's never
been a junior middleweight that big before. And if you
go further down the scale, same sort of situation. So
Keith was not exactly a unique situation in a unique situation.
The problem was most of the fighters at Sebastian medor
has face haven't been able to solve that either. You know,
Brian and Doz is the only one with the you know,
the come from behind, you know miracle one punch, you know,
devastation that knocked him out. There was a draw earlier
in his career also, but still, you know, everybody faces
that problem. But in terms of Keith, you put that
physical situation in terms of the disparity to the side.
You're also looking at a guy that's thirty seven and
we all questioned about what he's got left. He's been
off for a long time, just one fight in the
past one year, but before that a three year layoff
our injury related fighting. Now in a weight class, it's
you know, new for him. He fought a bunch of
druimidleweight fights at the beginning of his career, but as
a championship level, top type fighter and main event caliber guy.
He's always been a welterweight until his fight in Australia
that was one year ago, where he was fighting a
lesser type of opponent. So you put on the combination
of the of the different weight class, the size of Sparaday.
I mentioned his age and all the business that we
can talk about like that. The fact that he lost
the fight's not a surprise, it's just he had no answer.
And Fandora. So while yeah, you have to chalk up
some of this too, the deficits that Thurman has at
this stage of his career, both in terms of his layoffs,
injuries and the physical things. I mentioned about the height
in the reach, but I think a lot of it
also has to go to Sebastian Mondora. What I see
in Fondora is a guy now that's really before. I
always sort of thought about Fondora as like you see
like this amazing young thoroughbred that you think might be
a triple crown candidate. But when they're born, they can
barely walk. They're all kind of ganging on their legs
and they're all discom populated, and it takes some time
for them to develop into that sits.
Speaker 1: When did you become a horse breeding guy. That for
horse racing. I love the analogy. Keep going, hold on.
Speaker 2: I grew up twenty minutes from Saratoga Springs. I worked
in Saratogas.
Speaker 1: I'm feeling you on the analogy.
Speaker 2: And by the way, when the apartment I used to
live in Saratoga Springs, if you looked out the window,
you could hear the bugle at post time. That's what
I got, chuck. Anyway, So I grew up around horse racing.
But you understand my point, though, These these gangly animals
grow up to be these sleek, beautiful thoroughbreds that become
extraordinarily athletic as they're running in these races. And so
Thurman again his stuff besides the point. But Fondora has
kind of gone from that like young thoroughbred to now
a developed, sleek, you know, tip top prime athlete. He's
twenty eight years old, he's in his physical prime, he's
got a lot of good experience, he's got obviously a
good team behind him, and he's just running through guys
right now. Now. Keith Thurman uh aged I was standing still,
a smart fighter, still looked like he was in good condition,
said he had no particular injuries this time around, so
there was no excuses from that point of view, and
he just ripped them up, landed, you know, big shots
on the inside, landed good jabs on the outside. Now,
thing about Fundora is he was able to use both
both of those types of things. Come inside and work
them over, go to the body a little bit or
sticking sticking with the jab on the outside, and and
land the heavy shots. That's one of the reasons why
his his face was so smashed up. They were not headbutts,
they were clean punches on the eyes. You know, he
looked like he'd been through a fucking like a like
a you know, I don't know, like a blender. By
the time the.
Speaker 1: Fight, like you like your man, Aaron Judge had been
hitting him with a bat exactly. And this was and
by the way, this was not in the tenth, eleventh,
or twelfth round. This was only in the fourth and
fifth round. It began to look that way.
Speaker 2: He just shredded him up. I mean, that's the bible.
Speaker 1: And and and so now we get to the crux
of Thomas Taylor, veteran championship referee. You and I agree,
probably the best referee in boxing. I think we both
agree on that. I agree with that he's taking a
long look at Thurman after the fifth round and had
the doctor I believe next to him. The female that
was next to him, I believe was the doctor standing
there looking at Thurman. They let the fight go to
the sixth. There was not a dramatic, big barrage punches,
but once again a fundora teed off two or three
times and hit Thurman, wobbled him around the ring once
and then and then Taylor says, that's it. I don't
have to see him, and he immediately objected go ahead.
Speaker 2: Before the stoppage actually occurred, you can audibly hear on
the pay per view if you're watching on the on
the broadcast on Prime Video, you can hear Thomas Taylor
shout at thurmant show me something, Keith, and he didn't respond.
He didn't, I mean, he didn't have to say anything back,
but he didn't show him anything for several seconds. Look,
there's no argument about this stoppage. It's what it is.
I listen. I feel Keith. He's a proud guy. You know,
he tried hard. He was disappointed, I'm sure with his
performance and his inability to really do more much of
anything against Fondora. But there is no other person on
the planet that thought that's a bad stop. She was
a fucking abuse. Let's not make this a controversy. Right
to national Mendora went in there, the bigger, longer, stronger, younger,
quicker dude beat the shit out of Keith Thurman for
five plus rounds, and Thomas Taylor, who was an elite referee,
like we said, probably the best in the whole sport
in the world right now, and pulled the plug appropriately.
So that's all there is to it.
Speaker 1: I mean, Thomas Taylor is there for two reasons, as
we know, to enforce the rules and to protect a fighter,
and a lot of times protect a fighter even from
himself or his corner if they won't protect him if
he's taking a beating. And there was no Haymaker coming.
I know, Keith said some things in the ring and
then he said some things in the press conference afterwards
about how I was just getting ready to do this.
He wasn't ready to do any I was getting ready
to do that. I was four minutes he said this.
I was four minutes away from this thing really cooking
and I think he was implying being able to land
the big right hand like Brian Mendoza did, but there
was zero indication that that was going to happen. While
his face is literally reddening and swelling to the point
that any reasonable person's going, you're gonna get seriously hurt.
Speaker 2: Here, by the way, he threw a couple of those big,
wild right hands over the top, which is the only
thing he could do, and nothing landed. He lives like
lurching forward looking for like the wild miracle home run punch,
and it never happened. Meanwhile, you know Thurman's throwing you know,
straight left hands and count doors in. I mean, Fondora's
throwing those shots. He's buckling Thurman's legs. He just had
absolutely no answer for anything, like I said, on the
inside or the outside and offensively, Thurman just was not
able to do anything. I mean, if he had had
a moment even where he could get in, maybe Taylor
has a different thought about it, like, Okay, he's showing
me something. But there is zero evidence from the opening
bell to the moment the fight was stopped that Keith
was doing, had done, or could in the future do
anything of remote consequence on offense. Meanwhile, he's getting the
stuffing not out of him. He's like you said, his
face is torn up. Enough is enough, man?
Speaker 1: Okay? So I will say a couple of things. One
I have I've liked Keith Thurman for the better part
of fifteen years, being around him and covering him here
in the Tampa Bay area. I mean, let's just be
real here on the on the pod. He got this
opportunity because he's aligned with PBC, not because he had
done a tremendous job as a contender of earning this,
he had basically fought. This is the truth a club
level fighter in Australia a year ago, trying to make
the Tim Zoo fight that never happened, and at thirty seven,
as inactive and infrequently as he's fought, I think this
is pretty much the end here. I don't know what
else he done. Pretty much, it's just the truth. It's
the truth that he got it because of his alignment
with PBC. I mean, boxing is often about who you
know and where you're aligned. That's not a surprise. And
he does have a big name, and he is a
former world champion. He was for a period of time
one of the very best fighters in the world. So
that point is there's nothing in ring that really would
have indicated he really deserves this. And now we have
the proof in this fight that at thirty seven, sure
far two inactive. I mean you just saw it, but.
Speaker 2: I mean it wasn't a post of the match. I mean,
you know, he he Fondora was in an optional period
of time to make him in to make a non
mandatory defense. He just couldn't do anything. And by the way,
I was looking at the copy box dots on the fight.
So in five plus rounds you have Fandora landing ninety
six out of three point fifty one. A lot of
them are clean and hard, clean good shots. Keith Thurman
in five plus rounds and twenty eight punches, so I'm
not sure what was going to happen in four more
minutes that something was gonna find the offense.
Speaker 1: Ninety six to twenty eight on shots landed, and most
of those were power shots by the way that Fundor
was landing. Okay, So that leads us to the other
side of this, which is he's the guy at one
fifty four. You can talk about what's coming up with
Xander Ziaz and Innis. But right now, Fondora to me
is the guy in this division. I'm still curious, and
we keep talking about how long can he continue to
make one to fifty four. You mentioned twenty eight years
of age. It's remarkable that he's been able to make
that weight to not up the middleweight.
Speaker 2: But I think I think you've been saying that for
the last few fights that we've talked about fundor stop
talking about that he was under the limit. I just
talked to his promoter, Samson Lukowitz earlier on Sunday, and
that came up in the conversation. The guy makes the
weight with no issues. He just it's I mean, maybe
at some point that may become an issue, fine, but
right now it is literally not a problem. It's a
problem for everybody else that he can make the weight,
not a problem for him that he can't make the weight.
So he will continue to defend the title at one
hundred fifty four pounds. I assume if there was some
massive opportunity at one sixty, they might take that shot.
But one sixties, we've talked about millions of times, is terrible.
And so you look at the weight class, who's around him.
Xandersiis is the unified title holder with the WBO and
the WBA belt. They are in the finality of trying
to get a fight for June made with Jeron Boutennis
Virgil Ortis. We were hoping to see him fight n this.
He's on ice right now because of his legal situation
with Golden Boys, so they're gonna go to arbitration. We'll
see how that plays out. Josh Kelly is the IBF
title holder, and while I'm all for unification fights, there's
probably zero public demand for that fight. I don't think
it's a fight that Josh Kelly has a prayer and
hell to win number one or two. I think Matt
Room Boxing and his team they're like, we're gonna go
take a home fight until we can do make some
money and put a good crowd in there. In other words,
I'm not saying narinate it for two years, but there's
no call for that fight at the moment for a
lot of different people, so they'll be up to them
to find somebody. Look, Jermil Charlotte, the former undisputed champion,
was there as Samson Luca had said to me, trying
to crash the ring and had been drinking. It was drunk.
You know. They're not. They're not. They're not. I mean,
even though they're all PBC related, they're not necessarily looking
to do that fight. They like, if they were gonna
fight Charlotte, let him come back and get a real
fight against a legit guy, and then they might can say,
but he hasn't fought in that weight class since there
since he had the rematch with Kastagna when he became
undisputed in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: I was about to say, which is how many years ago?
Four years ago?
Speaker 2: And by the way, he's only had one fight since then,
at one sixty eight, where he just lost every round
and didn't even try against Canelo. So I don't even
consider him a legitimate candidate for that fight at this
moment anyway. I mean, honestly, I think Keith Thurman was
more of a legit opponent than Charlotte at this moment
of time, given at least that that.
Speaker 1: So is the most is the most likely thing wid
out who wins the zias Innis fight and then we
got a real legit mega fight at one fifty four
if if that winner ends up, which I'm just gonna
go ahead and say it's likely Innis that wins. If
it's Jaron Innis that wins, and has two of the
belts fighting, Fondorra, sign me up. If we can get that,
can we have good things?
Speaker 2: I mean, that seems slightly unlikely for a lot of reasons.
I mean, I know that there's lesser now about sides
of the streets stuff in boxing because of people's associations
with his own and the fact that they all have
to work together. But I don't think anybody on the
Fundora team is running for that fight. Necessarily it is
PBC and and Mattroom, which have not done a huge
amount of business together. Again, it's not like it's impossib
or anything like that, but it just seems like that
would probably be unlikely anyway. But basically, what they could do,
it doesn't have to be a unification fight. They could
just go down the ratings and take a look and
see who's there and see there's somebody that's interesting to them.
They could offer a fight to pick a guy. I mean,
you know, whoever is going to be there, I'll give you.
I mean, again, it doesn't have to be like a
superstar name. If you want to just keep the guy busy.
I mean there's other contenders. You know, Majimov is still
kicking around the former title er Bachram. You know, he
lost a close decision to Kelly. Maybe they give him
an opportunity. He does have the knockout against him. Zoo.
You know, you know you've got a boss Baru. Yes,
he lost his anders eyes, but he had a great
fight with Teaz. He put up a good fight also
against Anders' eyes. So I'm just making the point that
just looked down the ratings and there might be a
decent guy you could find them up with Charles Johnwells
looking for a fight. I hear you.
Speaker 1: Did you say Joannis Tayaz would be on the list?
That's that was on the card with Brian Mendoza.
Speaker 2: Who could be there.
Speaker 1: Let's get to that fight, Let's get to how he
looked and is he maybe the option for fundor what
did you see out of Taaz?
Speaker 2: Well? He is also PBC related. I mean, look Taaz
as you know from the time he was you know,
several fights ago when he was like seven to oh,
I've been on that bandwagon, thought he was a great prospect, exciting,
has got skills, good, good technique in terms of his
background from the Cuban national system, so he he had
a lot going for him now. In August of last year,
he had a sensational Fight of the Year candidate against Brew.
Speaker 1: He lost.
Speaker 2: He got knocked down with the final punch. The fight lost,
a close fight, outstanding matchup lost. At the time he
had one of the interim belts, so he lost that.
So he has a win since then, and then they
matched him up with Teas Remember this fight, I mean
with Brian Mendoza. This fight was made on somewhat short
in about three weeks notice because of the injury to
the heavyweight Frank Sanchez, who was supposed to be in
this co feature against Richard Torres Junior and their eliminator.
When that fight fell out, they had PBC had Brian
Mendoza on standby at one fifty four like they always do,
and Taz was in camp. And they've worked closely with
Theaez's other promoter, one of his promoters Zamari from uh
that does all those shows at the you know from
box Lab that does all the shows at the Crib Royale,
as well as Liam Mark Leez from War Years Boxing
so there was no issues getting that done and it
was a good mat. I like the matchup because on
the one hand, you got Taz, who was very exciting
and you know, has looked good and Brian Mendoza, who
maybe hasn't looked as good recently because he's lost to
some of the top guys. But by decision, and by
the way, he's on the undercart of the guy who's
the A side champion in the main event, who he's
the one guy that knocked out clean for a big upset,
so they made a lot of sense. So they went
in the ring and listen when the fights started between
Mendoza and Theaz. While it was not an official eliminator,
as you mentioned, it was like a de facto eliminator
because this could push a TAAZ into one of those
types of fights. Sure, but when the fight started off,
they both were just out there firing really good, strong,
educated jabs, doing their thing, and look like, Okay, this
is gonna be for at least a little while, it's
going to be a boxing match, but eventually he'll probably
tick up, it'll become action packed, and that happened, but
it was probably a little bit sooner than I think
anybody expected because in the third round there was a
situation where you have Taaz throws a punch, Brian Mendoza
ducks out of the way of it, and when he
comes back up, he rams accidentally his head, you know,
because Teas is still leaning over. He rams his head
right into Teaz's face and his nose, and immediately Taz
falls down to the canvas. The blood is pouring out
of his nose. It looks like he's got a broken nose,
and you're like, oh shit, this is going to probably
not continue because he's so fucked up. They call a
time out. Uh, he's got five minutes to try to recover.
The doctor checks him out. He could have checked out,
he said I'm done, I can't breathe, I can't whatever,
and it would have just been a no contest. It
would have fucked you would have been they would have
to go to the main event. The would have been
another like forty five minute delay because it was such
an early time because other fights had gone early that
they had a lot of tap dancing between fights, and
it would have really messed up the show even a
worselip than it had been in the earlier fights. However,
big big balls and big heart. For that, he was like,
I'm fighting the fight.
Speaker 1: You know what.
Speaker 2: It reminded me of I'm going to date myself. I
go back to the days watching the Top Rank pay
per view when the late great Gennaro Chiiconnito Hernandez was
taken on the Hall of Famer A Zuma Nelson in
one hundred and thirty pound world title fight and as
Zuma Nelson accidentally fouled Jennero Hernandez after the bell hit
him in the throat, and he could have said I'm
done and got it, you know, and it would have
been over and I forget. If you would have just
gotten the win on the on the cards, there would
have been a no contest whatever would have been. But Gennaro,
who had been accused in the past of quitting when
he lost to Oscar de la Hoya, even though his
nose was fucking shattered, said you know what, I'm not
gonna quit. I'm gonna fight. When he didn't have to.
He went out there and he and he uh and
he fought fought his heart out in the uh you know,
they finished the fight and he won the fight. This
reminded that's the when it was as soon as he said, Teas,
I'm gonna fight, you know, I was like, that was
the first thing that jumped into my mind was that
that memorable matchup between uh Nelson and uh and Genera Hernandez.
So after that was over that round, when Tayas went
back to the corner and they're assessing him the you know,
Abnra Marris, who was on the broadcast team was translating
what the commentary was in the corner, and he translated
Taaz is saying, I can't breathe because his nose is
all messed up. Okay, well, the fight could still end
because four rounds are not complete, and he could have
quit right there and it still would have been a
no contest. He chose to fight and it turned into
be an absolutely tremendous action fight over the rest of
the fight, and then eventually he got Brian Mendoza gets
cut from an accidental head butt. They're going back and forth,
there's lots of good exchanges, but Taez was protecting the nose.
He talked about it after the fact that I had
to be a little bit more cognizant on my defense
to make sure it clipped on my nose by the
time he got to like round seven, eight nine. If
you hadn't seen what happened earlier in the fight, you
wouldn't even thought he had any kind of problem because
he seemed to be handling his just fine, at least howardly.
I'm sure it was very painful, you know, for him
to deal with that, And so he ended up winning
a wide decision ninety eight to ninety two, ninety seven,
ninety three on two score cards. And people might say, well,
I was a lot closer than that, but the reality was,
as I was watching it, very close rounds, but he
was just winning the rounds. He was just doing a
little bit more landing, a little bit better in terms
of his punches, his placement, you know, his activity, all
the things you look at in terms of who you're
going to score the round for. So Mendoza fought a
pretty good fight, but he just didn't win it. But
that was the fight of the night. He showed tremendous
harte as that made the drama of that particular bout.
And you know, whatever happened in the Barreu fight, losing
the decision the guy, you know, you can't measure the
man's heart. We can talk about guys knockouts and how
much speed they have and how much you know, what
their amateur records were and all that shit, but when
it comes time to actually, you know, pedal to the
medal and you're in the fight, you know, and as
they say, the rubber hits the road, are you gonna
you're gonna fight or are you gonna you know, you're
gonna show something? He should showed what he's got inside him.
This young man was there to to fight twenty five
years old, showed enormous heart, fought his heart out and
it was a It was a tremendous fight. It was,
like I said, a fight of the night.
Speaker 1: Maybe he will be a future opponent of Fundorra, and
sooner than we think. We don't know, but it's it's
he showed a lot with that win.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Mendoza, yeah he lost, and maybe
he has lost a few fights here in there. He
gave a good effort also and put on a good
show too. I mean, I don't know, if you don't
necessarily had Mendoza won, I could certainly see them doing
a Mendoza Fundora rematch and let him try to avenge
the knockout loss. I don't think that happens off this.
But Mendoza is still a guy in the right circumstance
you want to see in a decent fight because he's
entertaining and he comes to fight. He took the fight
on short notice. I mean he should get some credit
for that, just because he lost a competitive fight, even
though the scorecards looked like it was a wipeout. If
you actually watch the fight, this was not a white out.
This is a good fucking fight, And I mean those
that deserves to get another fight out of it.
Speaker 1: All right, and give me the other two wins you
mentioned only Hernandozz. He gets the win over a veteran
Terrell Gachet and stopped him. And then the big heavyweight
Hovanasien is able to get a TKO as well. So
give me a little more.
Speaker 2: Okay. So Hernandez I had like fifth or fourth or
sixth or whatever on my top Prospects list at the
end of last year. I think the world of him.
I think he can dominate the middleweight division, especially given
how poor it's been in recent years. He's very exciting.
He is ten and zero now with nine knockouts. He
is twenty eight years old. But he got a late
start in terms of his professional career because he's a
Cuban defector. But he had a good amateur career for Cuba.
Two time world amateur champion. And what's kind of crazy
about that is for a guy that won two world
amateur championships, he actually never won a Cuban national championship.
That's how deep the Cuban team has been over the years.
In any event, he is here in the the United
States now campaigning and he is just he's strong as
a bull, he's heavy handed, he's got a great fun style.
He's built like a you know, a granite block, and
he's in the ring against the experience Terrell Guchet. Now,
he had fought and lost in previous world title fights
at one fifty four in a decision to Arislondi Lara
in twenty seventeen. Had challenged your boy Carlos and Damas
for the WBC's middleweight belt in twenty twenty four lost
there also had some other you know names. He had
the loss against Tim Zuo, a not in a world
title fight. He did drop Timzuo in that fight anyway.
Hernandez It was similar in a sense to what was
Fondora doing against Keith Thurman, just overwhelming him, beating the
shit out of him, dominating, having nothing coming back, and
unlike what happened in the Fondora fight, where at least
Fondora busted him up, you know, and rocked him and
he had facial damage and it was a complete mess
and was not the case in this fight. But he
was just beating the living crap out of Guchet, and
so the referee in this fight, Alan Huggins, at some
point just had like, you know what, I seen enough.
I seen this guy just take battering after battering after battering,
and there would have been like a little right hand
that landed, but nothing that was telling that would be like, oh,
big shot, let's stop the fight. I think he just
got tired of seeing him just taking an absolute fucking
shlacking for four rounds and he stopped the fight. A
lot of people criticize it, and I understand why. But
for me, and this is just me talking about it,
a lot of times I would rail against that type
of stoppags. For whatever reason, I saw Gachet just get
an absolute ass kicking with no offense whatsoever coming back,
that's no chance to change the ten.
Speaker 1: That's another key.
Speaker 2: So I didn't have a real problem with that stoppage.
I didn't love it, but I'm like, I get it.
I didn't have a problem with it.
Speaker 1: And that's another key. If if the referee, who's closer
than all of us, is standing right there watching all
of this and doesn't see you firing back or any
hope that you're gonna come back, he's there for the
safety of the fighters, to even sometimes save them from themselves.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it that it's I saw the same.
Speaker 1: Criticism that, hey, it was too soon, but we keep
railing on. Well, what is too soon versus too late?
When somebody gets seriously injured too, when you let a
fight go on and go on and go on while
they're getting browned again.
Speaker 2: I understand the the irritation of some about the stoppage,
but and Gshet is a veteran. You know, he's an
Olympian and he's fought against top level guys. But if
you can't get off a halfway decent shot in four
rounds and do anything exactly and the other guy's fucking
pasting you, yep, and just hammering you at will, what
are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: And tell me about Uh okay, we got you watch
you know, and we'll see if Hernandez gets a bigger
fight coming up at middleweight, which again is what is
your word, bereft? My word is devoid of stars and names.
Maybe he can kind of take over that that part,
all right, tell me about the big heavyweight Hove nasi
in and he gets the TK over the Mexican Caesar Navarro,
big Mexican fighter that was in there real quick. And
then we'll move on to the other heavyweight that we
want to talk about, Moses E. Tama.
Speaker 2: Well, that big Mexican used to be a welterweight and
now he's fighting as heavyweight. So I don't know, I
don't know how big he was. He was, you know, the.
Speaker 1: Chavez Junior esque. We're saying yes for Caesar Navarro, put
on the extra fifty pounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah right. So gergenhovean Iscian, goes by the big Goog.
Now it's ten and oh with nine knockouts, twenty eight
years old. He's a Joe Goosen train fighter. They're very
close to each other. He's an Armenian that's living in
La and he was out for a little while. He
had some injuries and maybe he wasn't as active as
he had hoped to be at one point. But he's
a work in progress. I mean, the main thing is
he seems like he's heavy handed, and he's big and strong.
He's like freaking two hundred and eighty pounds. He goes about,
what is he six foot seven or so, So that's
just from the physical point of view, that's a handful
for any heavyweight. And he was in there. He took
him a couple of rounds to get his stuff together,
to get himself organized and get himself into a little rhythm.
And once he did, he just started clipping on Navarro,
who came in with a record of fifteen and three
with thirteen knockouts. Also younger than Gergon, he was twenty
six years old, a guy out of Phoenix, and he
just laid it on him and eventually stopped him in
the in the fifth round. I mean, it was it
was a good performance from from the big goog. So
I would like to see a little more of him.
I mean, maybe slightly better opposition, but uh, it's definitely
a guy maybe to keep an eye on I'm not
sure so how far he goes like he he doesn't
look like the kind of guy that's blessed would like.
He's got no real speed, very hit a ball against
the right opponent in my opinion. But it's heavyweight boxing
and if you can, if you can take his shot,
maybe you have some a chance. But he looks like
he's got some good punching power to him also, and
that's the name of the game when you're dealing with
the big boys.
Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of heavyweights with big punching power, let's move
to earlier in the day US time, Saturday night primetime
in Manchester, England. They are all a buzz again, big
Dan for Moses Etama as they should be. Back after
a lengthy delay from the one round demolition of Dillian White.
He did have an injury back in December. That delay
aid this fight with Jermaine Franklin from January until March. Uh.
You could have delayed it though until twenty twenty seven,
and I don't think it would have mattered because man
Yetama was good. He got some rounds in. He actually
dropped Franklin in the third round. In credit Franklin, he
got up fought on, hung in there and then boom
with the upper cut followed by a straight right hand
while Franklin was kind of dangling out on his feet.
You talk again about fights where fighters can seriously get injured.
He didn't. He didn't wind up and throw the fastball
at him. But that's a that's a moment in the
split second where Jermaine Franklin could have gotten seriously injured.
Itama drops him with the straight right hand face first
game over, night over, pick it up, pick it up.
Speaker 2: From there, it was really the uppercut that did it,
because he was literally he was kind of swaying like
in slow motion. Amost like he was gonna fall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was almost knocked out standing up by the uppercut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was gonna even if he doesn't throw
the right hand, he's gonna fall anyway. And he was
out right hand was like a beautiful window dressing, just
like a bonus to like clean him up. And it
was over and out. Look, I don't want to be
too dramatic about this, but I'm just gonna put it
out there, and I posted this on my social after
the fight. I've been doing all I've been covering boxing
many many years twenty six years. Baby seen a lot
of prospects come and go, see a lot of great champions,
then ringside for hundreds and hundreds of fights, seeing a
lot of stuff in my day, and I searched the
my mind's inventory of the types of performances from up
and coming fighters that I've been more impressed with than
I was with what Moses Thoma did against Jermaine Franklin.
And I'm hard pressed to find a more impressible one.
And it's not because Jermaine Franklin is some great fighter
or anything like that. But if you can't see that
Moses Atoma is the real deal, then I can't help
you with that.
Speaker 1: Well, what did we say going into this fight? Pick
it up on this for those who didn't hear it.
We said we wanted to see him against a veteran
who's been tested, which Franklin had been, Yes, and we
wanted to see if he got some rounds in what
would happen check check, including the booming knockout. I'm saying that,
but we we saw what we asked, what happens when
we see it? We saw it right.
Speaker 2: So the big part of this, obviously and This was
the backdrop to this entire fight, besides the fact that
Franklin is known to be durable and you know, is
not a superstar contender, but he's got credibility, had a
good amateur career and he's fought some good fighters. He's strong,
and he was willing to fight a Tama, which is
part of the battle in the first place, to get
guys to go there to fight the guy. In any event,
the backdrop was that in twenty twenty two he got
a majority decision loss and a competitive fight with Dyllian
white Way before Dylan was a completely shot guy that
Atama wiped out in the first round last summer, and
in the fight after that, Franklin got the opportunity and
lost a unanimous decision. Had a couple of moments against
Anthony Joshua in twenty twenty three, so the two well
two well known British heavyweights of similar uh you know
ear that they fought. In the fact they fought each
other before Joshua won his first world title. They're very
well known, they've had their successes. Joshua of course a
big superstar, and they went the distance in fights against
Jermaine and Franklin. So the idea here is, Okay, what
can the young man, twenty one year old mosesy Tom
in the twenty twenty four fight Freaks Unite Prospect of
the Year do when they get in the ring and
it's like you said, can he get in some rounds?
Can he get them out of there? Is he gonna
maybe show uh, you know, a little bit of a
different wrinkle? What are we gonna say? Well, what we
saw was Moses Atama go out there and beat the
living shit out of Germaine Franklin. Who's similar to the
other fights we've been talking about Keith Thurman and and
and those types of fights where the you know, Terrell
Gachet couldn't do anything against him. He got absolutely slaughtered.
He had no offense to speak of. He took a triment. Now,
he took good shots. He showed, uh, you know, a
pretty good chin for those first few rounds. Other than
the knockdown in round three. He even besides the knockdown
and then the eventual knockout, he took a lot of
clean shots. He took some good body shots when he
got the knockout. Though the speed, the hand speed that
it possesses. That's the separation. That's the ball game right there.
It's not even just the pure punching power, because I'm
not totally convinced that it's the pure punching power. What
it is that sets him apart is the hand speed.
And when you can't when you don't see the punch,
that's when you get really hurt. And his hand speed
is so electrifying that it just you get the power
that he does have combined with the fact that the
opponents just don't see the shot and you get fucked
up when you get hit with it. So you can
have a guy like the Big Goog who might have
a good one punch power, but a lot of guys
are gonna see those shots coming whether Toma. Even if
the power is not at at the ultra, you know,
super mega level of some of the great punchers in history,
the speed is what is the game changer because guys
don't see it. So when he drops that fucking uppercut
that goes about two wins in about a speed of light,
and then he comes behind it with the right hand
and knocks in the fuck out, that's impressive. That's the
knockout of the ear candidate right then my friend.
Speaker 1: And they roared in Manchester and one a moment and
I know Thomas said after the fight, hey, I believe
he won an amateur, a significant amateur championship in Manchester.
And he said, seven years ago I was here in
Manchester and it kind of all began to come together
here and now here I am back again tonight. So
it's very easy for all the hyperbole and the freight
train and whatever, and we try to keep it realistic
in between the lines here on take it one fight
at a time. There's obviously comparisons to Mike Tyson. Everybody
settled down because Mike Tyson was demolishing guys on a
regular basis multiple times a year in eighty five and
in eighty six and in eighty seven when he became
the undisputed champion. Certainly this is not the same trajectory.
The guy basically has fought three times in the last
year and a half or year and four or five months.
So but I understand in England, the buzz, the comparisons whatever.
Speaker 2: In England. I don't live in England.
Speaker 1: I got I got you, I got you. But in
England especially they're hyped. So does this need another fight?
I believe he needs another fight before we see a
title fight. Let me see it one more time. That's
my take. What is your take on the trajectory on
the timeline every time?
Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying and I don't even disagree
with it, but the reality is probably not okay. First
of all, he's gonna be filling up stadiums before too long.
You know, you'd always like to see a guy get
a better, to get more experience. At some point, that's
not gonna happen. You're gonna You're gonna get the opportunity,
and you know, in heavyweight boxing or any boxing, you
get the chance, you usually have to take it. He's
number one in the WBO, he's number one in the
w BA. Now, well, you're number one in the w BA.
They make up their rules. You never know if does
that mean he's number one for the regular champion Mora Gassi?
If I suspect it's gonna be Gussie, because you know
you've got Usik has taken on Verhoven the kickboxer in May,
and then after that, the WBC has already mandated that
he defend his title against his mandatory in that organization,
which is a g Caabio, and so that would probably
be next unless.
Speaker 1: He knows what would be wrong? What would be wrong?
Perfect world? I know, stupid with having him fight Kabiel,
very intriguing fight.
Speaker 2: I think, who fight Cao?
Speaker 1: Have have Etoma fight Cabia? What would be wrong with
us have it? Can we have good things?
Speaker 2: Listen the reason why that? I mean, I I understand
the thought and why that would be fun for those
of us that are interested to watch good heavyweight fights.
But if you're a g Cabo, why in the world
would you fight Moses Tama When I got a guaranteed
shot at the heavyweight champ of the world for astronomical money,
certainly more than he can make against Etama. I would
I be doing that?
Speaker 1: I don't know that it's guaranteed that Usik will fight him,
because Usik didn't fight him here, and then maybe he's
maybe he gets stripped of the WBC belt.
Speaker 2: So if Usik goes and does the Verhoven fight and
wins and then refuses to fight Cabo and he gets
stripped of the WBC title, Cabiel could be elevated immediately
to the full champion. I think the WC probably would
do that. In that case, a Toama would not be
necessarily qualified to fight for that vegantitle because even if
they put him high in the rankings, he's not gonna
be the next guy available. So I just don't see
that happening now, and at some point that fight could happen.
They're both promoted by Queen's Barry.
Speaker 1: Are you telling me though, because we already know this subplot.
We know that Fabio Wardley is fighting Daniel Dubois. We
know Wardley promoted by Queensberry as his Duba. But Wardley
is trained by the same trainer then, David Davison that
was in the corner Saturday night with Etama. I'm just
going to he's let me say this, Let me say this.
Are you telling me we can't get that fight because
of the trainer? Then what fight can we get?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you a short term go ahead. What
you can get is a couple of possibilities. Number One,
Duba could beat Wardley, in which case I think Frank
Warren would probably make Wardley would make uh A Toama
against Dubais Dubois in a heart beat. That's number one
and one of the storylines there would be, you know,
trying to avenge his stable mate Fabia Worthy. They're good buddies.
They trained with the same guy. They've been in the
gyms together for years, so that's one aspect. So he
could certainly fight Dua Fabia Wardley were to lose. Now,
I don't know, you know, the Wordly fight against it
against Dua is an optional. I have to imagine that
Wordley probably has the possibility of an automatic rematch if
he loses. But who knows, But yes, uh, a victory
by Dui against the Tama would make sense. I think
that what they're gonna do is he's number one in
the WBA. They're gonna fucking make the gassy if I
Gasi have just had a great knockout against Kubra Pulev
he won that that second tier belt and doing a
fight between Atama against Ghassie. Whatever you think about the
WBA secondary title, Ghasiv is still a pretty good heavyweight.
He does have a very credible victor in his last
fight by a big knockout. That would do a big
crowd in the UK. They'd get all pumped up. You know.
Of course, he's not fighting for the real title, but
it's still a belt. They can make that fight. I
would think he's Gassiva would probably make you know, a
very good payday to do that type of fight. That
seems to be the logical thing. Now, the guy he
said that he wanted to fight afterwards was Philip Herkovic.
Now that's again another possiblight. Also, Philip Hergovic just signed
a contract extent. He was a free agent who had
been with Frank Laurren previously. The contract ended and then
they made this deal frohim to fight David Allen, and
part of that deal was that was the first fight
of what's going to be a contract extension. Now, if
he beats David Allen, which he should because he's going
to be a heavy favorite, then maybe Atama gets another
let's get ready for the real fight, a heavyweight title
fight fight by fighting Hourvich, or maybe they figure out
a way to do an interim title or some other
cock and mami bullshit. But the real deal is du boy.
If he beats Wordy Gassie, which is what my money
is on, and maybe Hergovic, and by the way, let's
say Dave Allen where to beat Pargovich and maybe they
give Dave Allen the chance to fight at Tama.
Speaker 1: And obviously we have we're gonna talk about it later
in a week. We have Deontay Wilder and Derek Chesora
fighting this we can and that that's kind of in
its own category. We'll we'll have time to talk about
that and I'll bag on it some. Chasa is another
Frank Warren fighter too, who knows that that.
Speaker 2: I don't see either one of those guys fighting Etama
for a lot of reasons. And if these be if
he's to be believed, and it's boxing, so you never know.
Chasaura claims that the but the Deontay fights his last fight,
that's his fiftieth fight, he's going to retire. So while
nothing is out of the realm of possibility, I would
take Chisa and Wilder off the board for potential for
fighting Etama. It's certainly in the next fight anyway.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we gave you a lot on that. Let's
see when Atoma is back in the ring and how soon.
Ideally you'd love to see him this summer.
Speaker 2: Getting Frank Warren said he's back out in July.
Speaker 1: Good, keep the momentum going.
Speaker 2: The guys will fight, seem I'm assuming all things equal,
if there's no injuries, he'll fight three times this year.
He'll fight the fight that we just saw, he'll fight
this summer, and he'll fight once towards the end of
the year.
Speaker 1: All right, news items, Hey, rayphel, I thought Manny Pacquiao
was fighting Ruslan Provodnakov. That apparently is now not happening.
We got to explain that. And then there's Floyd Mayweather.
Was this I did not I saw the interview, but
I did not see was it at the Fundora Thurmon
pay per view or just somewhere else where Floyd was
talking on Saturday and saying, oh yeah, my fight with
Pakio isn't a real fight. It's an exhibition and it's
not necessarily at the sphere, by the way, which has
already been announced this Kay, we got a lot to unpack. Go.
Speaker 2: This is the comedy portion of our show.
Speaker 1: Yes, please go, So as so far as it.
Speaker 2: Relates to Manny Paco and Provondnikov. If the people at
Industry Media, who are the folks that are bankrolling this
event that is being logistics are being handled by my
pal Art Pululo from Bannon Promotions, who was a longtime
promoter for Rose on Provandikov during his career as when
he was not doing exhibitions, but when he was actually
a fighting real fights and had won a junior well
title and performed on HBO, on ESPN and plenty of
other places. They would have realized what I realized, because
when it first was announced, I asked Arty about this
and said, Arty, you're scheduling, not you. Industry media was
scheduling this, this exhibition down between Pakout and Pravadnikoff for
April eighteenth at the Thomas and Maxenter in Las Vegas.
Has said, why would you do an exhibition where no
one's particularly asking for it. Okay, maybe you can make
a nice event out of it, put on some undercard
fights that are interesting, whatever, But why would you go
to the same city and on the same day and
do this on the first night of WrestleMania where Las
Vegas is going to be consumed by that. Yes, it
doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay, they do
what they want to do, and eventually, and this was
just a few days ago where apparently they came to
the realization intelligently. So I guess that hey, we probably
shouldn't do this in Vegas on the same weekend as WrestleMania,
So they decided we're not going to do the fight
in April eighteenth, and while there's no new date specific,
it will, they say, be just moved from April eighteenth
into a weekend a Saturday in June, and they will
still have the fight the exhibition at the Thomas and
Mack Center.
Speaker 1: So that you believe it is still gonna go forward,
just at a later time as opposed to just going
completely away because of the payday. They both want the payday,
and that's why I'll go forward.
Speaker 2: According to Art Pululou, they are committed to doing the
fight in June and staying at the Thomas and Mac
and it's just a matter of we decided it's not
smart to go up against WrestleMania, so they're just gonna
switch it, you know, to you know, six weeks later. Okay,
that that seems to be. I kind of think that
one actually will happen for a lot of different reasons. Whatever.
The mainweather thing is wacky Douke time. It's just off
the charts of craziness. So he was not at the
Fondora and the Keith Thurmon fight. Floyd was making an
appearance a personal Pierce. I guess he was signing autographs
and doing whatever, trying to make a few dollars to
pay off the massive debt thaties in and so I
guess he did an interview there and he stated when
he was asked about the pack out fight, A no, no, no, no,
it's not going to be an officially sanctioned fight. It's
going to be an exhibition and oh it might not
be at the Sphere. Come again, you know, so if
you go back a few weeks ago, this was not
just some random like announcement. This was Netflix. Yes, you know,
that's a pretty big deal in conjunction with the folks
that are at CSI Fight Sports that had supposedly signed
Mayweather to some type of agreement. Those are the folks
that are also behind the Mayweather exhibition bout against Mike Tyson.
That they were doing an officially sanctioned rematch of their
twenty fifteen blockbuster at the Sphere in September, in a
real fight.
Speaker 1: And that was that.
Speaker 2: I mean, so when Netflix announced it, that seemed very
believable given what they're doing in boxing with the big
mega events that they have done. So for Floyd to
come out and say no, it's not an exhibition, or
that it's an exhibition, not a real fight, now you
go to everything that Manny Packet was always said about
the match that he would love to fight Floyd Mayweather again,
that he always wanted to rematch ever since what happened
the first time where he claimed there was a shoulder
problem that he had have surgery on, that he wasn't
at his best, blah blah blah. But I'm not going
to do him an exhibition. If I'm going to do
another fight with Naylor, I wanted to be a real fight.
Speaker 1: Where's where we come by chance to get my revenge
something we frequently talk about what does the contract say?
And I guess soon enough we're gonna find out. Does
the contract say real fights sanctioned by the Nevada Commission
or does it say exhibition? And Floyd is putting it
out there that it's an exhibition if that can be believed.
And I don't put the site after.
Speaker 2: It's been a he I mean, who the heck knows
what's going to really happen. But you take into account
that Floyd is on the books supposedly for this Tyson.
And if you talk to people in Bob with that,
they'll say that Floyd can go sign for a pack, yeah,
real fight. He can go sign for the June exhibition
he's supposed to do in Athens, Greece against the retired
kickboxer Mike Zambidis. You know, he can go sign for anybody,
but the Tyson exhibition is has to be honored first.
Whenever that happens, that's first. They have DIBs, they've got
they do apparently, but.
Speaker 1: At that moment a major substack. At this moment, they
don't have a date and a location announced for the
Tyson after he's brought up Mayweather that he's fighting in
June in Greece and September with Manny supposedly that's your.
Speaker 2: Point, correct Now, it's entirely possible that. First of all,
as I reported a while back, when there was a
lot of discussion that the fight between the exhibition with
Mayweather and Mike Tyson would take place, and I forget
the date was April twenty fifth or something like that,
that was like, that is one hundred percent it's not
happening then, and obviously, as we grow every day closer
it's one hundred percent not happening. Then more likely if
they actually go through with that, that will probably get
rescheduled sometime in the month of May, perhaps early June.
Congo is still a possibility, although people involved that told
me it's not a definite. That's just one of the possibilities.
And if they do it early enough in May, it's
an exhibition and Floyd doesn't take any damage, he still
could obviously go forward and do another exhibition at the
end of June. That's not going to be the most
taxing thing, taxing, no pun intended with his financial issues,
So that's a possibility, and then we'll see what happens
with the September thing with pack Yo. I mean, honestly,
this whole thing, to me is is just pure comedy
the fact and I.
Speaker 1: Always chances that the Pakial may Weather to completely unravels
and doesn't happen. Is it a two, is it a four?
Is it a six? Or seven? Right now?
Speaker 2: If Netflix is putting up the real money like they
do for these types of events, and I think it
will happen because Floyd Mayweather needs money, and man, he
always wants money, So from that perspective, I don't see
why it wouldn't happen. But if Floyd's insisting on it
being a non UH sanctioned fight, that may sway pack
it and say fuck that. I wanted to get my
revenge and it doesn't mean anything. And you know who
the heck knows. And by the way, if you're if
you're a Netflix and I don't know what they're I'm
sure they're paying tens of millions of dollars to do
the event. You would think if your Netflix, why would
you put up that kind of money for an exhibition
when the whole point was to do the real fight.
In other words, you want to do an exhibition fight, Fine,
we're cutting our fucking license fee by like half or more.
We'll do it. Okay, fine, but we're not going to
pay what we would pay. It was an actual fight.
Speaker 1: And for reference, the Jake Paul Anthony Joshua December Netflix fight,
real fight.
Speaker 2: Anthony jo I mean on Mike Tyson, Jake and Jake
Paul fight. So if you take a look at what
Netflix has done, those bouts have not been exhibition fights.
Canello Crawford was a real fight when they did the
all women's card, they were actual official fights. So while
Netflix is done, uh, you know these types of fights
where you know their their names and not necessarily represent
what's going on in real boxing as far as the
rankings go, like a Joshua and Jake Paul, they've largely
stuck to like official boxing matches, and I would think
they would want to do the same thing with that
that who did fight last year and Mayweather coming out
of the retirement, but a lot less of a retirement,
let's say, than Tyson and Tyson had been retired for
nineteen years. Floyd's only been retired for you know what
nine years, So who the heck knows what's gonna happen
with that, And to be quite honest with TJ, I
actually don't really give a shit how about.
Speaker 1: That, except that we have the update from Floyd and
stay tuned on if there's a further update. And we
gave you a lot on that. Okay, let's move on.
As we've been here a little bit, we have known
that Dimitri Beebol intends to return as the unified light
heavyweight champion against his IBF mandatory Michael Eiffert. It had
been thought that it could end up that fight on
the undercard of Alexander Usik fighting another kickboxer in Egypt,
this Verhoven, Rico Verhoven. However, my man Rayphiel has been
digging in what have you uncovered?
Speaker 2: So while it was never definitive that it would be
on that card at the Pyramids, that was what they
were pointing towards it. They were going to look to
do the fight on the show. My understanding is like
that maybe Turkey Alshikhu was the benefactor of bankrolling that
Giza card and the Pyramids was not enamored with that matchup.
His prerogative if it's his money, for sure, I totally
don't blame him. Bibbol is coming off the back surgery,
he's got the mandatory due he's hoping to maybe set
up the third fight against better BF and at some
point you got to get in the ring, and so
might as well take care of the mandatory even if
it's not somewhat of a humongous fight. So if they
didn't want to do it on the Pyramids card, he's
still going to do the fight. And so the outfit
in Russia called RCC Promotions, which has put on plenty
of cards through the years. They're gonna do this fight
in Atkaterinburg, Russia. It will be in May. It's the
data is not set yet and that is the plan.
So he will get back in the ring. He will
defend the mandatory. That deal is done. They had already
told the IBF to cancel the first bid because they
made the deal. It is my understanding that that fight
is signed. It just hasn't been a formally announced yet.
I would anticipate it would be coming in day in
the next you know, maybe on Monday, who knows, but soon,
and if everything goes well for him on that May card,
then maybe we'll hear some more about the possibility of
doing a rematch or a trilogy fight rather against Arthur
better be it. But again, eventually, Bibble's got to get
back in the ring. He's still the champ, he's still unified,
he's still neal.
Speaker 1: Got to do.
Speaker 2: Gotta fight.
Speaker 1: And by the way, David Benavetez has said a couple
of times that just because I'm fighting Zerdo here at cruiserweight,
it's not out of the realm here that he would
move back to light heavyweight and would potentially fight bevol
tune that that.
Speaker 2: And I can appreciate where David is coming from, and
I believe he's earnest in his statement, but that's one
of those deals where easier said than done. I think
once he feels the way he feels that cruiserweight, he's
never coming back. That's a hard to cut that weight
when you're not just cutting flab. I mean, he's already
you know, I just did the the The famous example
that maybe slightly different in terms of the weight division
is when Roy Jones went from heavyweight a small heavyweight
after fighting John Ruiz and dropped all the way back
down to light heavyweight and he was never the same.
It ruined his career. And David is still a young fighter.
I would hate to see him do the same thing.
And if he wins against zero, why if you're the
unified world champion at cruiserweight, would you decide to go
back when you're going to be the money guy in
the division?
Speaker 1: Agreed one more item. Can it truly have been sixty
years ago the night that we're doing this podcast March
the twenty ninth of nineteen sixty six, that Bob Aram
ventured into the world of boxing promotion. And here we
are sixty years later, Bob Aram and Top Rank still
going strong. Let's get nostalgic from a moment or two.
I know Top Rank sent out a media release commemorating this.
That's amazing sixty years.
Speaker 2: Look, Bob's ninety four years old. They just did a
new broadcast agreement with his own after the experts of
their espn So, as I have said numerous times to
you and others and written about, the rumors of their
demise during those seven eight months were greatly exaggerated. But
sixty years ago, on Sunday, as we taped this on
March twenty ninth, you had Bob Aaron promoting his very
first fight. This was Mhammad Ali, who was then the
heavyweight champion, fighting George Savallo and the Maple League Gardens
in Toronto and their first time that they fought each other.
Bob had been a lawyer in the Justice Department that
was run by Robert F. Kennedy and ended up Kate,
you know, had worked in as a lawyer and met
Ali and was introduced to him by the great football
player Jim Brown and Ali needed some assistance to make
a long story short, Bob Ahm, who was a lawyer
that had never really ever I don't think, had ever
been at that point to a boxing match, ends up
promoting the fight, went through all the difficulties to get
that done and to go to the old great Seinfeld Show,
and YadA, YadA, YadA. Here we are sixty years later.
He's one of the goat promoter of all the time,
with one of the most amazing libraries of fights that
they have produced and and and promoted through the years.
It's just been as remarkable a run as any run
of anything you can think of in the history of sports,
either by an executive or by an athlete. You just
don't get bigger and better. I mean, I know that Bob.
I mean that Don King is considered, uh, you know,
the most famous boxing promoter. And I'm sure Don was
a great promoter and did some amazing events and this
and that, and with all due respect to my man
Don King, I consider Bob Aram to be the greatest
boxing promoter in the history of the sport. And I
don't even think it's all that close. And now I'm
not trying to disrespect any other promoter or Don King.
The difference between Don and Bob in large measure is
that while Don was always out there screaming from the rooftops,
he mostly made it about himself and helped sell his
events that way. I mean, if you take a look,
I mean, you could come and look at my programs
and my posters I have of Don King fights where
Bor Don is on the cover or Don is on
the poster. I've got probably the same number of programs
and posters of Bob Aaron toppring events. You know how
many programs don I mean that Bob Aaron is on
the cover of zero. The one I have of him
where he's on the cover was because they produced something
for him when they did a roast about him at
the Friars Club years ago that I attended because that
was about him. But other than that, everything is about them.
So he made it about the event and about the fighters.
But the amount of what he's done, I mean, in
the list of Top Rank compiled is is this is
done by Bruce Trampler, who is the Hall of Fame
matchmaker that's been with Top Rank and you know, one
of Bob's closest advisors and employees since nineteen eighty who's
been at that company for a long long time. And
you know, Bob any decision that Bob ever made about boxing,
he wouldn't do it if Bruce didn blessed. Basically, that's
just been the way it is. And Ben Bruce has
been the keeper of the statistics. So may I throw
a few statistics?
Speaker 1: Give me, give me some stats. On sixty years go.
Speaker 2: Two thousand, two hundred and three boxing cards promoted by
Top Rank. Now do the math. That's a lot of cards.
That's a lot of shows. Nine hundred and of those
two two hundred and three events, nine hundred and forty
of them on various ESPN platforms. Keeping in mind that
in the early eighties through the end of the contract
they had Top Rank boxing on a weekly basis, and
then they spent, you know, from twenty seventeen until last
year doing the as the exclusive provider for ESPN. That's
a lot of shows. Nine hundred and forty they have
promoted ToJ seven hundred and twenty two world title fights.
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know, sorry, I'm sorry, how many world
title fights?
Speaker 2: Seven one hundred and twenty two? Now, I will ask
Bruce one of these days, and maybe he's listening to
the podcasts, he can send me a text message before
I call him. I don't know if that includes like
WBA regular titles or interim titles, or if that includes
you know, they used to do a lot of business
with the late Great Dean Chance when he ran the IBA,
But whatever it is, it's still a lot of fucking
title fights. And then they break down like the number
of fights they did in different states, obviously Nevada where
they're based now after many years from New York and
Las Vegas being in Nevada as well. Five hundred and
seventy shows in the state of Nevada. And it's like
that throughout the country. The amazing stat that I find,
by the way, is at the very end of the
list that Bruce compiled, they list they've done shows in
forty three states, but they list the fights. List the
states where they've not done fights Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Kansas,
South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming. And the shaker to me
was that they've never done a boxing match in Washington,
d C. Which is, you know, I live in the area.
I'm stunned by that because it's a great boxing city.
They've promoted all kinds of different fighters from all different
places around the United States and the world. So that's
pretty amazing. And when you think about the types of
fighters they've promoted, it is absolutely remarkable. Now the Bruce
has kept a list of the fighters that they promoted
the most fights of it's you know, of the ones
that he lists, forty one Miguel Cota fights in the
Hall of Fame, Michael Carbahall thirty eight fights in the
Hall of Fame, Oscar de la Hoya thirty seven fights
in the Hall of Fame, Donald Curry thirty seven fights
in the Hall of Fame, Johnny Tapia thirty six fights
in the Hall of Fame, Floyd Mayweather thirty five fights
in the Hall of Fame. And then there's guys that
aren't in the Hall of Fame, but tons of fights.
Thirty five Oscar Valdez fights, and you know, thirty nine
Kelly Pavlick fights, and you just go on down the
list twenty seven. By the way of Muhammad Ali, the
number of fighters that they voted that are in the
Hall of Fame and that were world champions, seventy five.
That's like a good percentage of the guys in the
Hall of fame in total. In the in the In
the Fighter cast said it.
Speaker 1: We said it two or three times, even in recent years.
You were talking about recent shows, you were talking about
the top rank library when you're talking about Ali and
Hagler and Leonard Uh and then moved forward to names
like Mayweather, Pakil Dala, Hoolya Canello, and it's amazing.
Speaker 2: Even more modern guys Vasilli, Lomachenko, Keishaan Davis, Uh you know,
Shakor Stevenson and and Tia Fimo Lopez and those types
of fights. But then and even if you get past
like the Ali's and and Uh and and the and
the Sugar and the Sugar Ray Leonard and and the
big four, Duran, Hagler, Herts, it wasn't that many fights
in total of the number, but what Hagler was twenty fights.
But the other guys, it wasn't a ton of the fights,
but it was the magnitude of those fights because he
did all those, you know, the four Kings fights, most
of them starting with being the co promoter of Duran
Versus Leonard number one. Chavez had a bunch of fights
were top rank. And I mentioned to you all the
fighters that they promoted that are in the Hall of Fame.
How about just members of the Top Rank staff over
the years that are in the Hall of Fame. Seven
people who are known because of their work for Top
Rank are in the Hall of Fame, Bob obviously being
one of them, the legendary matchmaker Teddy Brenner, the legendary
publicist Irving Rudd, Bruce Trampler, the great matchmaker, my dear
friend and longtime publicist Lee Samuels, Brad Jacobs who was
recently inducted as the chief Operating Officer and one of
my closest friends for twenty five years. Brad Goodman, who
was their matchmaker that has worked, you know, alongside Bruce
for all these years, twenty five years for him, it
is just remarkable. They promoted four of Mike Tyson fights
back in the day when he was a young fighter.
He promoted the famous Evil Knievel Snake River Canyon Jump,
which he tells amazing story.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's still the highest rated. I believe that event
is still the highest rated episode of ABC's Wide World
of Sports.
Speaker 2: Ever, was that that was a replay? He wasn't live
because it was all Stark.
Speaker 1: Was a live event. Crazy on the career of Bob
thirty two.
Speaker 2: Eric Morales fights thirty one Mickey Word fights thirty different
countries where they promoted fights twenty nine Tommy Morrison.
Speaker 1: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: The numbers are just fucking sick, and they're still going.
Speaker 1: By the way, give me an update, just real quick,
and then we've got to go. You mentioned before that
Bob had had surgery. Was it knee replacement surgery or
hip replacement? He told me ne replacement surgeries? Yes, okay.
How is he doing at ninety four? Have you spoken
to him recently? What's the update on the since we're
marking this anniversary sixty years.
Speaker 2: I did speak to Bob on the day that they
and they had their press conference, or maybe the day
after their press conference to announce their dissowne agreement. I
spoke to Bob for a while. I mean I hadn't
talked to Bob in a few weeks. I had a
nice conversation with them. Bob was a little grouchy because
he's still annoyed because he's having trouble getting around because
of the knee. But he's you know, he's working and
as he said, you know, when you're my agent's you know,
you know, it's a little bit tougher to recover from that,
but that's like a superficial kind of thing. It's like
his brain is fine. He you know, he's still got
his h as March is amazing, which is amazing, listen.
I mean, and I don't just say this about people
that I know in boxing, because, of course, over the
years I've been covering boxing, I've met pretty much everybody
and talked to everybody at one time or another. But
just in life of non boxing and boxing, Bob is
one of the most remarkable people I've ever met. And
I've spent a lot of time around Bob through the years.
I've I've you know, had great moments with Bob. I've
had terrible moments with Bob. I've had plenty of conversations
on non boxing things with Bob, about just life in
general and other topics. I've dined with Bob, I've been
to Bob's home, and even though we haven't always seen
eye eye on things, and with that something, like I said,
terrible moments, I have massive respect for what he's accomplished
as a promoter and just as a person. The generosity
of Bob Aaron. There's a lot of things he does
that are not publicized that the people who are the
recipients of that generosity know about, but he doesn't make
a big deal about it. But he's done incredible things
for a lot of people. But there's the other side
where you know, people get mad because he's done and
said things that are maybe not appropriate about a lot
of different things. But in totality, he's an amazing person.
And as I say, I hope he can live another
fifty years and keep promote in boxing. He is the
best promoter in the history of the sport period.
Speaker 1: And it began sixty years ago tonight Sunday night, as
we released this into Monday on March twenty ninth, nineteen
sixty seven, by.
Speaker 2: The way, And I say that as somebody who years
ago had me kicked out of an arena when I
was covering one of his events in Philadelphia, and I
had to go write my story in the ESPN production truck.
Speaker 1: But you eventually made up after that fact.
Speaker 2: We joke around about it at this point.
Speaker 1: All right, listen, great stuff here. We covered a bunch.
Why don't we regroup because we got a ton of
fights coming this weekend. I'm actually headed later this week
to Indianapolis and the college basketball Final Four, but we
will work in all the boxing preview mode, recap mode,
Big Dan, thank you read the sub stack. It is
the Fight Preaching Night Recap podcast. Read this substack for
the very latest and the newsletter. Always love the insight.
We appreciate it. Here once again on the on the
recap pod, thank you. Have a great week.
Speaker 2: All right, you two, TJ. Enjoy your trip for the
for the big basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, here we go. There is Big Dan Rayfield. I'm
merely TJ. Reeves. Follow, Subscribe on the pod feed, Apple, Spreaker, Spotify, Radist,
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