WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:17.719 All right, everybody, this episode of Wrestling Magic, we were 2 00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:21.320 having an interview with Donovan die Jack. And Man, this 3 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:23.800 is somebody that I've watched over the years, and I'm 4 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:25.559 pretty excited for this because I feel like he hasn't 5 00:00:25.559 --> 00:00:27.559 really been given a fair shake really in some of 6 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:30.960 the situations he's been in. But honestly, I'm really happy 7 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:32.880 to see him here and I'm happy to really give 8 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:35.359 him this conversation and this opportunity to tell his story. So, 9 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:38.119 mister die Jack, how you doing. Man, I'm doing great. 10 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:41.399 How are you doing fine? And man, I'm really excited 11 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:43.359 to have you on the show. And as always, also 12 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:46.560 joining me will be the gardener, Michael Gross. Michael, how 13 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:47.119 you doing. 14 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.000 I'm doing great. My nephew, and mister die Jack, it's 15 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:53.359 great to actually meet you and talk to you in person. 16 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:56.280 I followed your career for a little over ten years 17 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.520 and probably about close to twelve or thirteen when I 18 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.799 found found out about you in Ring of Honor, and 19 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:04.719 I just want to say that this is a big 20 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:06.959 honor to have you on the show, and thank you 21 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.000 nephew for introducing me. So let's get down to the 22 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.200 nitty gritty. Where do we want to start what do 23 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:13.840 you think of math? 24 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:18.319 Well, oh, mister Daijack, are you comfortable talking about childhood 25 00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:20.079 a little bit? And just what got you into wrestling 26 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:21.000 and when you started off? 27 00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:29.560 Sure? Yeah, so I started watching. I mean, I guess 28 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:35.879 I heard about wrestling. So for context, I'm thirty eight. 29 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:39.040 So when I was a kid, my earliest memories are 30 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.400 like five years old, six years old something like that, 31 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:44.799 especially because we don't have like videos. Well, I mean 32 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:48.000 there's some home and stuff, but like I think about it. 33 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.000 I think about this a lot actually, because my kids, 34 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.079 like every day of their life is documented like nassively, 35 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:55.480 Like there's a I can show my daughter like video 36 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.200 from yesterday, video from two days ago, video from you know. 37 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.280 So for her, like remembering her childhood is easy because 38 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:05.239 it's there's a constant stream of reminders going on. For me, 39 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.560 not so much. My earliest memories are like little like glimpses, 40 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.439 like pictures I can remember in kindergarten, like pretending that 41 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.639 I was a wrestler, like we all pretended we were wrestlers. 42 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:22.520 I had very little context for it outside of like 43 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.199 like WWFD arcade game. I know some of my friends 44 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:27.599 had that and played that, but like in terms of 45 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.560 like the actual product, I'd only seen like maybe like 46 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:34.319 commercials or stuff like that. Like as a six or 47 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:36.680 seven year old kid, you don't even know like where 48 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:39.439 to turn on a channel or what to do. And 49 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:41.840 you look at the TV guide and it says, you know, 50 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:44.280 Saturday at whatever time. It's like, oh, I have soccer practice, 51 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:47.400 you know whatever, whatever, you can't record it, and maybe 52 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:48.840 I gotta get a VCR or something. 53 00:02:48.879 --> 00:02:49.080 You know. 54 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.159 There's this whole thing right as a as a kid 55 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.680 that's not as easy as it is now, which is like, oh, 56 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:57.280 can I just watch it? And it's like yeah, you 57 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.039 grab their mote and you can turn it on literally 58 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.759 whenever you want. Not as simple. I was a kid, 59 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.560 so I didn't I didn't really truly discover like full 60 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:15.000 time watching of professional wrestling until like nineteen ninety eight. Okay, again, 61 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.280 it's right in the middle of the Attitude Era and 62 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:21.080 I'm eleven at this time, so my parents weren't thrilled 63 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.039 about that concept, and rightfully so, Like at the time, 64 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:25.639 I was like, oh, they're kind of hard and they're 65 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:28.039 kind of strict. Then going back and watching some of 66 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.039 the content from the Attitude era, I'm like, oh my god, 67 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.280 I wouldn't. I wouldn't let my my eleven year old 68 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.240 watch that. Ever, I don't have an eleven year old, 69 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:40.039 but if my when my son turns eleven, like for sure, 70 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:43.120 wouldn't let them watch Attitude Era stuff. So I don't 71 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:44.840 think my parents were being strict at all. I think 72 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:48.360 they were being you know, pretty solid parents. But as 73 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:50.719 most kids do, I went behind their back and you know, 74 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.280 started recording it and watching into my friend's house and 75 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:58.280 things like that. So that's when I started watching pretty religiously. 76 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.479 And they sort of loosened up on that around late 77 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.639 ninety nine, early two thousand, when I became about thirteen 78 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.719 years old, they were more okay with it. So I 79 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.639 started watching, you know, much more religiously, you know, both 80 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:16.240 shows every week, things like that. 81 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.800 Go ahead, just to interject, who is that one character 82 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:26.240 that you had to see that one wrestler. 83 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.560 He had to guess? What would you guess? Stone cold 84 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:36.040 Stone cold Steve Boston. Absolutely, yeah, so much so that 85 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:42.000 when the Rock turned Babyface and became like the megastar 86 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:48.160 had the you know, the whole franchise, and I refused 87 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:50.040 to accept that. I was like, absolutely not like this 88 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:54.079 guy betrayed my favorite guy. He was a dick that 89 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.199 whole time. Sorry, I told you I wouldn't swear. 90 00:04:57.639 --> 00:04:59.759 Okay, we can find that one. 91 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.360 He was a jerk the entire time. Yeah, I refused 92 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:13.000 to ever acknowledge The Rock, So yeah, I really didn't 93 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:17.199 start to appreciate The Rock until I became a wrestler, 94 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.199 and then I was like, oh, okay, I actually kind 95 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:23.360 of like his work. He's actually really really entertaining. But 96 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:26.560 at the time I was like, he's pompous, he's cock. Yeah, 97 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.360 I don't care for him at all, you know, no 98 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:31.199 matter what he did, the crowd was I was at. 99 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:34.800 I went to probably fifteen or twenty shows in my 100 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:42.079 childhood every time they came to either Manchester, New Hampshire, Manchester, 101 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:47.720 New Hampshire, Worcester, Massachusetts, Providence, Rhode Island, Boston, Massachusetts. Anytime 102 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.480 they came to one of those four arenas between like 103 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:56.360 early two thousand and late two thousand and three, I 104 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:01.079 probably went to every single one of those shows. So yeah, 105 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.160 there was tons of love for the Rock. I was 106 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:07.800 even at I think it was Backlash two thousand and 107 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:09.160 two or two thousand and three, where it was the 108 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:13.560 Rock versus Goldberg, and the Rock was a bad guy 109 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.319 at that point, I think, but everyone was still cheering 110 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.160 for him, and I was like, nope, now I like Goldberg, 111 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:29.040 you know. So yeah, fast forward to to I guess 112 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.240 two thousand So I guess I'll try to make this 113 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.920 a long story short. Around two thousand and three, two 114 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:39.360 thousand and four, like I mentioned, that's sort of when 115 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.560 high school sports took over for me, and I didn't 116 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:45.680 really have time to you know, Monday nights were either 117 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:49.720 basketball practice or a football practice or a game or whatever. 118 00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:50.000 You know. 119 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.160 Friday night, same thing, so I didn't really have time 120 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:58.360 to watch pro wrestling, and you know, DVRs weren't much 121 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.240 of a thing. I think we had a TVO in 122 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.000 like two thousand and five and six or something. 123 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:08.399 But right, yeah, real quick to sidebar and we're gonna 124 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.800 get out of this real quick. Basketball at your height. Obviously, 125 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:14.120 who is your favorite player? Just throw that in? 126 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.399 Well, depends on the like in two thousand and four 127 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:25.519 and five, probably probably like Paul Pierce, I'm a big However, 128 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.360 it's usually whoever it was the best for the Celtics. 129 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:30.519 My my all time favorite is Kevin Garnett. 130 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.959 You know, he's just Larry Bird, come. 131 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.800 On, tired. Larry Bird retired before I even ever saw 132 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.160 a game, So I mean, like, I love watching Larry 133 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.439 Bird highlights and stuff, but I never I never saw 134 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:46.439 him play. 135 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:48.600 Any guy who could call a shot in front of 136 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:52.720 his own player and then do it. I mean, your 137 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.959 guard men, I'm gonna step back, pump fake, and then 138 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.160 I'm just gonna take a three. And he would do 139 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.720 it to somebody. That's amazing that anyway, go ahead and 140 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:02.319 miss Dodge. No. 141 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.160 I was just gonna say, you know, Larry Bird was tremendous, 142 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.600 but I think he retired in ninety two or ninety three, 143 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:11.759 so I was like six or seven, so I don't 144 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.439 even have a memory of watching him on TV unfortunately. 145 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:20.199 But yeah, I uh, the so long story short, I was, 146 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:24.920 you know, high school sports turned to college sports, so 147 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:27.519 basically from two thousand and three to twenty ten, I 148 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:31.800 wasn't watching wrestling at all, just hearing about it and stuff. 149 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:34.879 But once I graduated from college, I was just working 150 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:36.279 a full time job and I said, you know what, 151 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:38.080 I have my night's free again. So I picked up 152 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:41.519 right where I left off started watching wrestling full time again, 153 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.720 and then through a series of coincidences, I happened to 154 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.279 find the New England Pro Wrestling Academy, which is where 155 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:53.360 I'm a trainer today in North Andover, Massachusetts. Yeah, and 156 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:57.840 I started training there and that was in twenty twelve. 157 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:00.279 So yeah, I've just been in a pro wrestling ring 158 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:02.679 for the last thirteen years. Wow. 159 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.080 It's really cool. Actually, and I do want to ask 160 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.120 before we move on to the academy and everything. So 161 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.120 what all sports did you play in high school? 162 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:10.200 Now? 163 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:10.720 I'm curious. 164 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:20.639 My three best were football American football, right, basketball, and 165 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.279 track and field. I was a thrower like shot put 166 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:24.120 in discus. 167 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:25.360 Okay, that's. 168 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.600 On a national scale. I was probably best at like 169 00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:35.360 probably a tie between football and shop. I was pretty 170 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.159 good at shot put enough to be like top in 171 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:40.919 the state, but I was also one of the top 172 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:45.759 recruits for football. The sad part, though, is my favorite 173 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:49.080 was basketball, like I wanted to be. I enjoyed playing 174 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:52.000 basketball a lot more, but I was only good enough 175 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:55.519 to play at like a Division three college level, which 176 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:59.240 I did. Because I played at a high high level 177 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:01.799 for football that they wanted to move me to an 178 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.200 offensive lineman position, which I didn't care for so I 179 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.039 transferred to a smaller school so I could play football 180 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:08.759 and basketball, which I'm very happy about. 181 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.879 I just remember that Ben Wallace played for Cuyahoga Community 182 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.759 College in Cleveland in basketball. Yeah, he also won a championship, 183 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:19.639 So you never know. 184 00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:23.200 Well, I mean, I know, I'm thirty eight, so it's 185 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:28.320 not happened to me. But yeah, he was a little undersized, I. 186 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:32.759 Know, but I'm just saying like he was a phenom too, 187 00:10:32.799 --> 00:10:35.440 Like there's there's only super athletic. 188 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.919 I remember in high school I would sort of compare 189 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.200 myself to him and say, oh, I'm a bit of 190 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.159 a wider body and he's not the tallest guy in 191 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.159 the world, but he can still play power forward at 192 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.320 like at an NBA level, So like I have a 193 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:50.759 chance too. And there was in my brain I couldn't 194 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.000 connect the dots between, like he's wildly more athletic than me. 195 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.039 So like because in my head I was like, I'm 196 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.320 a pretty good athlete, you know, I can play multiple 197 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.600 sports and stuff. But he had like a probably a 198 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.840 thirty eight inch vertical or something and just like probably ten. 199 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:08.679 Years so yeah, insane, great defender. But anyway, this is 200 00:11:08.679 --> 00:11:11.559 about you, it's not about like Ben Wallace, so like 201 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.960 let's go forward. So I want to ask you a 202 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.480 question when you got into school, like when you got 203 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:22.600 into wrestling school and started training, Like did you feel 204 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:25.279 it was grueling? Did you feel it was hard? Did 205 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.799 you expect what you had or were you just like 206 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.480 were you shocked? Like okay, like this is wrestling school, 207 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:32.879 Like what was wrestling school for you? 208 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:37.879 So for me, I started with what we call fantasy camp, 209 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:44.120 which is like everyone can sort of pay whatever seventy 210 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:49.279 bucks or some seventy US dollars and come try a 211 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.440 day as a professional wrestler. So the first time I 212 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:56.279 stepped foot in a ring, I I did what we 213 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.080 call it. I took a bump. It's a flat back bump, 214 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.960 which is like land on your back, and then hit 215 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:05.240 the ropes a little bit. And just from watching it 216 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.159 for so long, I had sort of like a like 217 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.879 a muscle memory to it watching it and doing backyard wrestling, 218 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:14.799 I would kind of portray it in my backyard like 219 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:20.559 on you know, mattresses or whatever the ground sometimes where 220 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.559 I would just you know, imitate what I was seeing 221 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:24.679 on television. And quite frankly, that's kind of a good 222 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.480 way to do a lot of things that you I mean, 223 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.240 people do it in basketball, they do it in football. 224 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.159 You watch someone who's great, and you try to imitate 225 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:32.720 someone who's great. So I was doing the same thing 226 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:35.120 with pro wrestling, and it felt very natural to me, 227 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:36.960 and I said, Oh, okay, I think this is what 228 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.159 I was meant to do. This feels like something that 229 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:41.840 I've been doing for a long time, even though it's 230 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.960 my first time doing it. That being said, training was 231 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:54.159 very strenuous, both mentally and physically. There's really nothing like 232 00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:03.399 pro wrestling in terms of athletic and certainly in terms 233 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.440 of cardio. An interesting story I like to tell is 234 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.720 I did a tryout for WWE very early in my 235 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:12.960 career that a lot of people don't know about. It 236 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.559 was in June of twenty thirteen, so really i'd been 237 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:17.840 training for less than a year and I had really 238 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.679 just done my first match on a show. So it's very, 239 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:26.440 very very early in my career. But I right from 240 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.200 day one, I knew I wanted to wrestle for WWE. 241 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:33.480 So I was sending emails to all the recruiters and 242 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:35.639 stuff like that, and I ended up getting a try 243 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.840 out just based on, you know, my youth and my 244 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.000 size and my look stuff like that. I say youth 245 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:42.559 and it's funny because at the time I felt like 246 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.279 I was kind of old because I was twenty five 247 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.080 and I would look at the foster and it was 248 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:48.960 like eighteen nineteen, and I was like, oh, oh, I'm 249 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:53.039 kind of old. In hindsight, you know, twenty five is 250 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.120 actually really young in pro wrestling. But yeah, I ended 251 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.639 up getting a trout and they asked me. They being 252 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:01.279 Canyon Seeman, who was the head of talent relations for 253 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.759 NXC for about a decade, but at this point he 254 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:05.399 had only been there for about a year. But he 255 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:07.559 mailed me back and asked if I wanted to do 256 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.360 the tryout for wrestlers or if I wanted to do 257 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:12.600 it for athletes. And I was like, ooh, I want 258 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.039 to do it for athletes, because you know, I'm a 259 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:16.919 Division one athlete and you know I can hang with 260 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:19.080 those guys. But the wrestlers, they're all going to have 261 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.480 way more experience than me. I don't want to have 262 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.360 to like get in the ring and wrestle guys who 263 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.720 have ten years experience and I'm green as hell. So 264 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.639 I did the try out with athletes, which was all 265 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.799 It was like thirty probably Division one football players and 266 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.279 like Olympic caliber athletes, guys who had like gold medals 267 00:14:34.279 --> 00:14:39.559 and stuff. When you do pro wrestling conditioning, and I 268 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:42.159 had the great fortune of having about nine months of 269 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.480 pro wrestling conditioning under my belt, so I actually did 270 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:47.000 really well in terms of the conditioning, like one of 271 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:50.399 the top people there. People were dropping like flies. And 272 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:55.519 I'm talking about like Olympic level caliber athletes, like extremely 273 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.480 well conditioned men. I think it was all men. Yeah, 274 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:01.639 this was an all male tryout. I don't know, they 275 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.679 probably did like male and female tryouts back then or 276 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:08.799 something separately, but uh yeah, like people were just like 277 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.039 after day one, like ten guys left, you know. 278 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:11.320 It was. 279 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:14.000 It's that kind of thing. And I still hear anecdotes 280 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.360 like this every day. I was talking to someone two 281 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:18.600 days ago who did a tryout and there were there were, 282 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.440 you know, real legitimate athletes who just were like, this 283 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:23.759 is not for me, right, because it's it's just an 284 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:29.639 incredibly You really to get through the sort of mental 285 00:15:29.679 --> 00:15:34.279 and physical anguish and conditioning of professional wrestling, you really 286 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.360 have to love the business of professional wrestling because if 287 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.639 you think about it, like, imagine doing something so physically 288 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.559 and mentally grueling that you didn't even know what it 289 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:46.600 was and someone just told you to try it and 290 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.960 you see it and you're like, this is silly, Like 291 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.600 I don't understand. It's not even a real competition. It's 292 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.200 more of a theater that you know. You so people 293 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.679 don't and that's fine. I don't hold anything against that, 294 00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:59.759 But like if you put yourself in their their shoes, 295 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.200 you're like, oh, I would absolutely not. Why would I 296 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.279 condition myself and my body to smash myself and do 297 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:10.399 all these painful, tiring, exhausting things for something that I 298 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.600 don't really care about, you know. So so really it 299 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.919 takes a level of like fandom to sort of be 300 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.000 able to push yourself and continually push yourself at a 301 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:22.440 level to be at where you need to be physically 302 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.840 to succeed in the Ring. 303 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:26.919 I see, And that makes a lot of sense, because 304 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:28.639 I mean, to me, it is the last true theater 305 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.399 art at this point. You know, you don't really see 306 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.639 many others that are actually you know, cutting themselves open 307 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:35.799 to get the real blood effect and actually look that 308 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:38.639 good in the ring as well as uh, just doing 309 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.200 their best to make everything look perfect and stay in 310 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.200 that kind of condition. It is one of those things 311 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.159 that it's not for everybody. And I don't blame anybody 312 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.600 that's like, yeah, I just couldn't do it. It's too much, 313 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.200 And I don't put that against anybody, but I will 314 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.840 say I give hats off to you man for sticking 315 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:53.679 with us a lot. 316 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.440 Interesting now that you mention it, you just sparked an 317 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.519 idea in my head because I do. I do a 318 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:02.720 lot of acting training. I was doing a lot. 319 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.200 I love this now I keep going. 320 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.839 Yeah, now, I'm a little busy with my independent bookings. 321 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:11.599 But ironically, when I was in WW I had a 322 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.200 little bit more free time, so so I would spend 323 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.119 a lot of my free time training with Howard Fine, 324 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.480 who's one of the best acting coaches in the world, 325 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:24.160 and thankfully he does online classes, so I did a 326 00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:26.839 bunch of levels of his class and he trains for 327 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.279 both screen and theater. And whenever we talk about like 328 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.599 theater acting, a lot of the concept is like being 329 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:41.160 able to mentally commit yourself to the act that's happening 330 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.000 without actually doing it right. You don't want to actually 331 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.759 like drink to get drunk or actually be like sleepy 332 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.160 and wake up and be tired, to act like you're tired, right. 333 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:51.319 A lot of it is just like convincing yourself that 334 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.279 you're in those scenarios so you can act the part 335 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:56.559 and convince yourself that you you feel sick without actually 336 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.240 being sick. But now that you mentioned like what we 337 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.559 do in professional wrestling and how that translates, I almost 338 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.519 want to like do or direct a play one day 339 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:08.400 that's like the opposite side of that where you do 340 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.480 all of the things on stage, because like, like pro 341 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:13.440 wrestling is one thing, right we can actually hit each 342 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:14.960 other and do all those other things, but like real 343 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.160 life on stage would be such a wild thing to 344 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:23.079 like actually have people like drinking or whatever. Maybe you 345 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:26.680 don't want to do fighting unless you have trained professional 346 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:28.960 wrestlers up there, But as a professional wrestler, I know 347 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:31.720 some guys and we could for sure do portray that 348 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:33.799 part of it. And then I don't know if you 349 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.519 can portray falling asleep or all the different you know, 350 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:38.920 getting sick like that, But like that that'd be an 351 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.319 interesting experiment if you could design a screen written play 352 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:46.000 that has elements of reality all sort of coursed throughout it. 353 00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:47.920 That would be a very interesting play that I think 354 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:48.440 people would like. 355 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:50.559 Yeah, Donovan, I think it would be called the Plane 356 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:51.200 Rod from Hell. 357 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:54.039 I wasn't on that. 358 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.319 I wish. I know, I know, I know you're you're 359 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.799 way too young, but but I do. You said your 360 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.880 friend Howard Fine. Is that a real name or is 361 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.799 that a stage name? Because you know who Howard find is. 362 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.240 I don't are you pronouncing the last name right? It's 363 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.720 f I N E. Fine? Yeah, yeah, do I know 364 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:19.319 who he is? 365 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:23.960 Well, it was one of the names of three stooges. 366 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:25.160 Oh was it? 367 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.160 Yes? It was. It was it was Fine, Howard and 368 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.559 Fine or something like that. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. 369 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:35.799 Yes that people do not know that that the name 370 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.559 of the Stooges. You can look it up Mo Fine, 371 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:42.559 Curly Fine, and Larry Howard. I think it was Larry Howard, 372 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.079 Mo Fine, and Curly Fire. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, so 373 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:51.680 that I thought you were making that because wrestling you 374 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.319 always have a stooge. I thought it was like a 375 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:55.880 stage thing, so I had to call you on that. 376 00:19:55.960 --> 00:20:02.160 But anyway, I'm loving this, this interesting stuff. What match 377 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.880 like made you say I gotta turn it up? And 378 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:11.720 be like a star. What match like when you're yeah, 379 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.680 like when you were in training and you're going through 380 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.920 the Indies and you saw a match on TV and 381 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.440 you said, Okay, this match has made me say I 382 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.440 got to be a star, Like I want that match, 383 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.240 I want that situation. 384 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.640 I had a bit of a light bulb moment when 385 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:34.759 I was watching I just started training and I was 386 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:38.960 watching one of the early early NXT. I don't know 387 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.160 if it was Takeover or if it was just an 388 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.119 episode of TV, And I don't think I've watched the 389 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.400 match many times since, but I remember watching it live 390 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:52.039 and it was Cizarro and Sammy Zane, and I remember thinking, oh, 391 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:59.240 they they they've taken this to another level. And interestingly enough, 392 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:01.079 I got the wrestle in that ring and in that 393 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.440 venue at full sale many many times after that and 394 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.000 have great matches where I was trying to outdo them, 395 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.400 you know, in a lot of ways. But at that 396 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.319 time I remember watching that and as someone who was 397 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.960 just learning, like lock ups and shoot offs and hit 398 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.160 the ropes and this is how you pin and this 399 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:20.640 is and I'm watching them do all that stuff combined 400 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.680 with the with the psychology of it and the impact 401 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:25.880