Speaker 1: Oh, gee is boot It should die? People say good
Speaker 1: money to see this movie.
Speaker 2: When they go out to a theater, they want clothed sodas,
Speaker 2: hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.
Speaker 3: Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 4: Got it off.
Speaker 5: That, Yeah, what's wrong?
Speaker 6: What if my next book is not good or witty
Speaker 6: and has no commentary and just kind of repeats itself.
Speaker 3: I'm not inspired. I don't think I have anything funny
Speaker 3: to say. It's horrible. I'm a little anxious.
Speaker 6: I've just been in a.
Speaker 4: Funk in your gutter.
Speaker 6: No, she's pooping or really, I'm just having trouble writing.
Speaker 4: Unless it's obstructing your colon.
Speaker 6: I don't know that I can help.
Speaker 4: Oh, you should call me for a beer if you
Speaker 4: wanted to ask.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: Ten am New York Times interview. I think coming here
Speaker 3: was a terrible idea.
Speaker 6: I mean, when did coffee shops become people's second home.
Speaker 5: This guy's doing me a favor.
Speaker 3: A favor I think said he wanted to do this.
Speaker 5: Just don't ramble. One pm.
Speaker 3: Drop off Lily at ex wife's and I think you
Speaker 3: would agree that it's not my week. Danny, how's the
Speaker 3: book coming horrible man, I believe in you won't good.
Speaker 6: I'll see you lave okay bye, We just abs are
Speaker 6: not realistic when it managed to give up for abs
Speaker 6: like that is not even worth it. Four pm.
Speaker 3: Call my sister back. It's a lot to ask me
Speaker 3: to come in.
Speaker 7: This is your sister's wedding.
Speaker 1: Get your ass here.
Speaker 3: Okay, so I I get your first wedding.
Speaker 7: I'm married for love, then sex, and now I'm marrying
Speaker 7: for money.
Speaker 6: Is there a world in which that's not considered selling out.
Speaker 2: Any bink one and only?
Speaker 1: What an honor to have you back.
Speaker 6: In our humble little too okay topic I have you
Speaker 6: don't know?
Speaker 5: I love you girl.
Speaker 6: It's tooid you think he's a little stressed about the
Speaker 6: state of the world.
Speaker 1: I'm pro good, pro good, and it's I won't live
Speaker 1: for life.
Speaker 5: You say you want to try?
Speaker 6: It all feels like I'm on a fast moving train
Speaker 6: run straight off the tracks.
Speaker 3: Sounds like a classic rock song.
Speaker 5: There ain't no nothing.
Speaker 6: I feel like my writing might never be the same again,
Speaker 6: you know, And it kind of feels like it's one
Speaker 6: of the sacred things I have.
Speaker 3: We need more sacred things.
Speaker 1: In this world.
Speaker 5: There no nothing.
Speaker 6: I typically am wonder to ride the waves of the universe,
Speaker 6: you know, But sometimes I feel like you just.
Speaker 3: Got to say no so you can catch the next
Speaker 3: big one. Do you remember my idea about the Old
Speaker 3: Man and the.
Speaker 6: Sea, the book The Old Man in the Sea.
Speaker 3: No, no, no no, It tips its hat a little
Speaker 3: bit to the old man. The Old Man, right, old Man.
Speaker 3: It's in English.
Speaker 6: I can't adapt.
Speaker 5: I'm just throwing truth bombs, all right.
Speaker 3: Whether or not you accept that, that's entirely up to you.
Speaker 4: Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth.
Speaker 4: I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking
Speaker 4: with Josh and Nick Holden. They are the writers and
Speaker 4: directors of the new film Sellout. It is currently making
Speaker 4: its way around the festival circuit. I had a great
Speaker 4: time talking with the Holden brothers, and I hope you
Speaker 4: have a great time listening to this interview. Normally I
Speaker 4: would ask a couple of filmmakers that come on to
Speaker 4: my show, where you guys know each other from. But
Speaker 4: I have a feeling you might have known each other
Speaker 4: for a long time.
Speaker 7: Nick got here first on the planet, and then I
Speaker 7: came seventeen months later. We were born in Los Angeles.
Speaker 7: Our mom was out there studying acting, and then she quit,
Speaker 7: gave it up to raise us, and then moved back
Speaker 7: to Louisiana, that's where she was from, and then we
Speaker 7: grew up there, and then moved to Austin whenever we
Speaker 7: were out of high school, and then been in Austin
Speaker 7: ever since. I went to film school at ut eventually,
Speaker 7: and then Nick went to Saint Ed's. So we've been
Speaker 7: together the whole time, working together. We started studying acting
Speaker 7: right out of high school and playing in a band
Speaker 7: and doing all that, and then we started writing a lot,
Speaker 7: and then we've just spent a lot of time writing
Speaker 7: scripts and working on that together.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that writing process. How do you guys
Speaker 1: collaborate on that stuff.
Speaker 3: We're used to be in.
Speaker 7: The garage and write every line together.
Speaker 3: We've gotten wiser over the years.
Speaker 6: Now we usually like to out try to come up
Speaker 6: with a bunch of ideas and then I'll pitch them
Speaker 6: all to Josh and which road do we or That's
Speaker 6: how we started. Now we have so many scripts we've
Speaker 6: done together that we can when we're thinking of something,
Speaker 6: we are referencing one of the scripts. So a lot
Speaker 6: of times we'll take stuff from scripts in our news scripts.
Speaker 3: Now, once we decide on a.
Speaker 6: Route, I'll try to do some preliminary work, talk to him,
Speaker 6: he'll do some stuff, and then get in a room
Speaker 6: and just do note cards and a beach and get
Speaker 6: it up on the board, use it first act, second
Speaker 6: A and B and third act, and then from there
Speaker 6: we get that really work and then we'll do like
Speaker 6: an outline for that.
Speaker 3: Read the outline and the beaching. The alle need to
Speaker 3: take about a.
Speaker 6: Month and a half and then it's about a good
Speaker 6: month and a half to knock out a draft and
Speaker 6: then he reads it and then we sit in the
Speaker 6: same room and we just go through it page by page,
Speaker 6: rereading stuff out loud.
Speaker 3: So it's a good almost six month process. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: that sell out.
Speaker 6: We were still figuring out our process when we wrote that,
Speaker 6: But that's basically similar how we did it, but I
Speaker 6: feel like it's a little more honed in.
Speaker 1: Now, how did the Golden rut come about?
Speaker 7: We've been writing a lot of scripts, but all of
Speaker 7: them would require bigger budgets to make, and we just
Speaker 7: got to a point where he said, okay, we need
Speaker 7: to make a film. We need to make a feature,
Speaker 7: and we need to make something that is a low budget.
Speaker 7: It was like thirty grand or so, and then that
Speaker 7: we could shoot and pull off and just practice our
Speaker 7: craft to see, okay, we want to make all these
Speaker 7: big scripts we've written, but.
Speaker 3: Can we pull it off?
Speaker 5: Kind of things.
Speaker 7: That was the first one where it was like, all right,
Speaker 7: us attempting to make a film really for our friends
Speaker 7: and family, in some ways our closest immediate community, and
Speaker 7: we learned a lot. We learned so much.
Speaker 6: You're backed up against the wall a little desperate, been
Speaker 6: saying we were going to make a film forever. We're like, okay,
Speaker 6: it's nice to have some wisdom, to be able to
Speaker 6: have some and we're like, who could we give any
Speaker 6: advice to because we were like twenty seven twenty oh,
Speaker 6: we could tell our twenty year old self what not
Speaker 6: to do. Let's make a film about trying to make
Speaker 6: it as an actor in dating, and that was.
Speaker 3: Where that came from.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and then we just ended up both acting
Speaker 7: in ourselves because we were That's what we found so
Speaker 7: far as we've never had really a budget to get
Speaker 7: a lead actor for a feature, because all right, we
Speaker 7: know both of us will show up every day for
Speaker 7: as long as it takes.
Speaker 5: To keep on it.
Speaker 1: Where did sellout come from? Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 6: I think it came from a few ideas at once,
Speaker 6: but some of it being in COVID being locked up,
Speaker 6: the attention of the country, it felt so just like
Speaker 6: it was about to burst.
Speaker 3: And also COVID is just the end of the world.
Speaker 3: There was time to that, we had little.
Speaker 6: Babies, and then being a parent, and then also yeah,
Speaker 6: just like our childhood, our friends in Louisiana and being
Speaker 6: different on the same such a different page politically, but
Speaker 6: that being in the news so much and it being
Speaker 6: so amped up, but then when you see each other,
Speaker 6: it's not quite as amped up, is maybe it feels
Speaker 6: like in the news, So it's like you're not quite
Speaker 6: as divided as they make it out to be.
Speaker 3: So trying to just come to terms with all.
Speaker 6: Of that, And it's a lot, it's a lot of
Speaker 6: ideas in the script. It's a lot of different things
Speaker 6: we're touching on.
Speaker 7: We were also we had been researching and writing the
Speaker 7: feature for the ninety one governor's race in Louisiana when
Speaker 7: David Duke beat out the incumbent Buddy Rummer. So we
Speaker 7: had been deep in that for about three years, and
Speaker 7: we wrote that feature, and that's a much larger feature
Speaker 7: to make, and so we made it a pretty meta
Speaker 7: where we leaned into us being writers writing that, and
Speaker 7: we had been going home to Louisiana, and Nick and
Speaker 7: I had been going back doing interviews, talking to people,
Speaker 7: and so it just started evolving where this dnny Ding
Speaker 7: character was going home and we were we were really
Speaker 7: were talking to baristas and everyone for the sellout stuff
Speaker 7: of just like the world just shifting so fast and
Speaker 7: getting so expensive and all these things. We spent a
Speaker 7: lot of time researching all that and filming, and then
Speaker 7: we did a test shoot and we fill on some
Speaker 7: scenes from the script, and we did a teaser, like
Speaker 7: a ten minute teaser, and then once we found that
Speaker 7: that helped us, we were like finding our tone there.
Speaker 7: And then once we found that, we used that to
Speaker 7: go raise money and attach actors and trying to get
Speaker 7: the film rolling. That was around what Nick twenty twenty
Speaker 7: two into twenty twenty two, perhaps sometimes around the Nick.
Speaker 1: I'm curious as first how you balanced being in front
Speaker 1: of the camera so much with being one of the
Speaker 1: writer directors, and how do you work with your brother.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of prep.
Speaker 6: That's why we did a whole ten minute tone piece
Speaker 6: so we could just me and him shooting it, edding it,
Speaker 6: cutting it, really figure out exactly what we want to do,
Speaker 6: come up with a strategy, and then it's a lot
Speaker 6: of lines that I'm saying, So I feel like I
Speaker 6: just memorize the lines and then play with the actors
Speaker 6: while I'm doing that, but lean on him to do
Speaker 6: the overall direction and to lean on the camera. Then
Speaker 6: we'll divvy up little things like I do a lot
Speaker 6: of the wardrobe. I like to do the wardrobe stuff.
Speaker 6: We'll split the locations, we'll split the casting. Just there's
Speaker 6: so many things to do and there's so much going on.
Speaker 6: It's just kind of and you have to do so
Speaker 6: many roles. So it's just like to have someone that
Speaker 6: you basically know will answer your call twenty four hours
Speaker 6: a day, be there the whole time. I don't know
Speaker 6: how you make films without that person. And we have
Speaker 6: a lot of another team with two great producers, Morgan
Speaker 6: Pollad and Jennifer Kouchai. They gave everything they possibly could
Speaker 6: do this film. You can't ask people to give you
Speaker 6: their whole lives for no money, but me and him
Speaker 6: are putting everything. I'm so grateful for that to have
Speaker 6: that kind of partnership and Michael Green who came to
Speaker 6: So you get all these people that come and are
Speaker 6: there ever production. Maybe they leave for posts, but they
Speaker 6: but it's such an indie film, I feel like you
Speaker 6: need a.
Speaker 3: Partner like that.
Speaker 6: But I think we found Benny together before we started shooting.
Speaker 3: I was really nervous to play the role.
Speaker 6: And that's why we did so much test shooting to
Speaker 6: where everyone was like, yes, you got to do this,
Speaker 6: this is great, this is great. So then it was
Speaker 6: we could focus on other stuff. He'll be sat with
Speaker 6: the camera. I'll be talking the actors, rehearsing with them,
Speaker 6: running lines, making them comfortable, like dividing and stuff.
Speaker 7: And we learned so much on our first feature because
Speaker 7: we're both in front of the camera.
Speaker 3: I was only living bront of the camera a couple
Speaker 3: of days though, which was Niger.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and we had a small indie crew and it
Speaker 7: was on sticks and you know, it was just moving slow.
Speaker 7: And on this one we thought, okay, we found the
Speaker 7: tone six or seven days into shooting The Golden Rush,
Speaker 7: and we thought, all right, we don't want to do
Speaker 7: that again. So we spent the time on this one
Speaker 7: shooting that tone piece where we found the tone ahead
Speaker 7: of time that we could show the actors everyone knows
Speaker 7: coming in generally what we're going for. It ended up
Speaker 7: evolving past that tonally, but and then we said, okay,
Speaker 7: we're just going to shoot it on these GH six
Speaker 7: like two thousand dollars Panasonic cameras with some anamorphic lenses
Speaker 7: and just used two or three lights for the shoot
Speaker 7: because that'll allow us to continue to shoot and be
Speaker 7: able to be free whenever we don't have a crew,
Speaker 7: just Nick and I can go around and shoot some
Speaker 7: stuff in the b roll or the Louisiana stuff, or
Speaker 7: the car scenes or things like that. So that's the
Speaker 7: way we set out to make it and establish that
Speaker 7: kind of handheld documentary somewhat documentary style tone. And then
Speaker 7: we had two really great dp's Tailor Camera and Elephant,
Speaker 7: and then they each kind of split up days and
Speaker 7: came out for a certain amount of time, and when
Speaker 7: they weren't there, I had some other young shooters who
Speaker 7: were like Anna and Kyle and they would come and
Speaker 7: shoot with us and all that. So it was just
Speaker 7: overseeing the tone and all that.
Speaker 1: Obviously, you have one of your main actress there all
Speaker 1: of the time whenever you need them. But tell me
Speaker 1: about the rest of your cast. How did they come together?
Speaker 6: Over the years, we've got in the Austin film scene
Speaker 6: and we just have Jimmy Gonza's old friend being in
Speaker 6: the scene.
Speaker 3: We've really maintained.
Speaker 6: Relationships with people and hung out with them all. So
Speaker 6: we were writing a lot of roles for him, and
Speaker 6: then when the time came, it was like, hey, do
Speaker 6: you all want to do some We send the teachers,
Speaker 6: like let's do this. And we didn't know Adrian Plocki,
Speaker 6: but our friend did and she was into the project
Speaker 6: and she had some free time. So it was really
Speaker 6: just a cool and we did take our time and
Speaker 6: really waited patiently to cast. We really were like, hey,
Speaker 6: let's just wait the perfect person comes.
Speaker 7: And Sarah Dowling. We got Sarah. She's a local casting agent.
Speaker 7: For a while, she helped us a lot.
Speaker 3: On my side cast members. We wrote the part with
Speaker 3: Stephanie Hunt and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: Jimmy and Gabe I had seen the teaser and reached
Speaker 7: out and said, word my part. So we were like, oh,
Speaker 7: we got a part for you. Bill Wise, we've worked
Speaker 7: with a Ton. We had an O series with him
Speaker 7: called The gil Webshow where he was like a kind
Speaker 7: of belligerent drunk who didn't know who he was interviewing,
Speaker 7: and he was interviewing musicians.
Speaker 3: And we love working with Bill. He's so funny.
Speaker 7: So we always worked with Bill and our mom. We
Speaker 7: casted our mom as the mom and Nick's daughter as
Speaker 7: the daughter.
Speaker 3: That was pretty good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nick, your character is neurotic and you are channeling
Speaker 1: a little Albert Brooks for me, some of those earlier
Speaker 1: Albert Brooks. How do you get yourself in that headspace
Speaker 1: of just that continual self doubting, kind of manic state.
Speaker 6: Oh, I just picked up the newspaper, watch a little
Speaker 6: news for a few minutes, and I read a lot
Speaker 6: of political history, Like I'll just I like to read
Speaker 6: a lot of times I breakfast, all these different politicals.
Speaker 6: So I just tried to get myself in that headspace.
Speaker 6: And it's not hard, especially at that particular time.
Speaker 1: I imagine even today you could probably get in that
Speaker 1: headspace pretty easily.
Speaker 6: Now, I feel like right now and all the pressures
Speaker 6: of you know, stuff is just easy to spin out.
Speaker 3: It's a fun role to play. Actually, that's a fun,
Speaker 3: fun character.
Speaker 1: What were some of your biggest challenges making this movie,
Speaker 1: because I know making an independent film is not easy.
Speaker 6: I think they're raising the money was really hard because
Speaker 6: when we moved to Austin, we didn't We just started
Speaker 6: hanging out with all these really cool artists. They were
Speaker 6: all waiting tables and just man, these are the coolest people.
Speaker 6: We had come from Louisiana and they're really one as
Speaker 6: many artists that we knew. So we're just hanging out
Speaker 6: with those people. And then we was like, oh, we
Speaker 6: need to raise some money. Oh, we don't really know
Speaker 6: very many wealthy people, much less cool wealthy people.
Speaker 3: So then we were like, oh, damn, we need to
Speaker 3: learn how to raise some money.
Speaker 6: So that's been a long time of trying to build
Speaker 6: networks and then finding the really cool people that have
Speaker 6: some money that are into the arts.
Speaker 3: That was super hard.
Speaker 6: And then the editing was we didn't have much money
Speaker 6: for posts, so we're just juggling so many different jobs,
Speaker 6: editing trying to be patient because we were like I
Speaker 6: feel like there's this film plays differently a different huh.
Speaker 3: We felt like right after the election, like all.
Speaker 6: Last Spring went a really great time to put it out.
Speaker 6: So just try to be patient and just trying to
Speaker 6: really take our time. There's such a tendency to want
Speaker 6: to rush to finish the film for a festival, and
Speaker 6: my kind of mentors have said, don't ever do that.
Speaker 6: Get the film right, and so there is that tendency
Speaker 6: of oh, we should get it out as soon as
Speaker 6: we can. Also, we need jobs, so the quicker we
Speaker 6: get to film in the festival, maybe we could get
Speaker 6: some other jobs.
Speaker 3: So there is that teb is like just being patient.
Speaker 6: Lear need to just stay real patient and get the
Speaker 6: film right because it lives on forever.
Speaker 3: I think that was the hardest part. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: fundraising is the hardest part.
Speaker 7: It's challenging in that we were raising money as we
Speaker 7: were shooting, and as we're locking in cast, we didn't
Speaker 7: have a solid crew or all over our locatients to
Speaker 7: me and Jennifer and Morgan and Nick were in Jennifer's
Speaker 7: kitchen trying to schedule all the actors traveling and the locations,
Speaker 7: and we didn't even have the budget fully raised yet
Speaker 7: couple days in shooting, so it was scary, but it
Speaker 7: was also one of those things where it was like, man,
Speaker 7: if we wouldn't have done that and we didn't just
Speaker 7: put the pedal to the metal, it would have never
Speaker 7: gotten made.
Speaker 3: And it ended up working out.
Speaker 1: Were you shooting this piece meal weekends, evenings, that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, where did you actually have a full block
Speaker 1: of shooting time.
Speaker 7: We were doing a lot of piece mealing, and we
Speaker 7: would shoot some days we just do two hours of shooting,
Speaker 7: and it's just because sometimes it was just two people
Speaker 7: crew or something, and then other days, once things started
Speaker 7: to roll and once we raised more of the money
Speaker 7: to shoot the film, then we started scheduling and did
Speaker 7: certainly maybe I don't know how many days we did,
Speaker 7: but then we scheduled some proper days shot along And did.
Speaker 1: You guys edit this yourself or did you have somebody helping?
Speaker 7: We have an editor with us, Michael Green, and Michael
Speaker 7: was there from the beginning. Nick and I created the
Speaker 7: tone and the pacing, and then we divvied up scenes
Speaker 7: with Michael and created an assembly together which was about
Speaker 7: a three hour assembly. Yeah, and we said, no one
Speaker 7: wants to watch to three hour comedy concluding me. So
Speaker 7: we went through and then it took us maybe six
Speaker 7: months or so to cut that down to two hours,
Speaker 7: and then we brought on in front of ours Tony Costello,
Speaker 7: and he helped us trim another ten minutes out, which
Speaker 7: was really helpful because once you get onto that like
Speaker 7: one forty five and we were trying to get to
Speaker 7: ninety minutes, we're just so close to it was so hard.
Speaker 7: And then we spent another couple of months just chipping
Speaker 7: away at it, screening it, watching it with audiences and
Speaker 7: seeing test screenings and seeing what's working and what's not.
Speaker 7: And then it took us.
Speaker 3: A good probably two years to.
Speaker 7: Do because also because we were doing the music with
Speaker 7: our friend Mario Mattioli, and we would do that at
Speaker 7: my house here every like Wednesday night because he is
Speaker 7: a job so I filled two hours every Wednesday night
Speaker 7: we'd work on the music, and we were just had
Speaker 7: to chip away as because we were also doing production
Speaker 7: work and jobs.
Speaker 3: And stuff like that and have kids.
Speaker 5: And so yeah.
Speaker 1: I was going to ask if you guys had seen
Speaker 1: this with then audience, but it sounds like that was
Speaker 1: a really valuable part to cut this down and really
Speaker 1: hone that to what we end up seeing today.
Speaker 6: We did a couple of test screenings really helped because
Speaker 6: there was a lot to whittle down.
Speaker 7: And I find too with test screenings it's so helpful
Speaker 7: to watch with an audience because you just get your
Speaker 7: blinders on after a while and you don't even need feedback.
Speaker 7: You just watch it with them and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 7: I can see where this is dragging, where that's not working.
Speaker 7: Have you just feeling in the room with them. It
Speaker 7: helps so much.
Speaker 1: When did you guys have your premiere or is that
Speaker 1: yet to come?
Speaker 6: We had the premiere Thursday, October twenty third, terrific screening,
Speaker 6: terrific audience. People really loved it, and then we'll have
Speaker 6: a screening October thirtieth at the Galaxy seventh I think.
Speaker 6: Then next we'll play Lone Star November fifth at six
Speaker 6: pm in Fort Worth and then we'll play Lafay at
Speaker 6: Louisiana November fifteenth at two thirty pm.
Speaker 3: So those are the next two screens we have coming up.
Speaker 6: Audience Austin definitely really seemed to love the film, so
Speaker 6: it'll be nice to interesting to play in some other places.
Speaker 3: Too. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll be nice going back to the hometown.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I see what people think. They're all messaging, they're
Speaker 6: all excited. And then we're gonna try to get a
Speaker 6: New York screen. We're talking to some vessels in New
Speaker 6: York and LA and talking to some sales agents and
Speaker 6: hopefully distributed next spring.
Speaker 1: Is there a good place for people to keep up
Speaker 1: with you guys in the movie on Instagram?
Speaker 6: We're at Sellout movie and then also the brothers holding,
Speaker 6: so brothers with an S and then holding that's a
Speaker 6: pretty good place for us. We usually keeping at least
Speaker 6: definitely someone's keeping the sellout page going, and then we'll
Speaker 6: try to repost as much as we can.
Speaker 1: Nick and Josh, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 5: Guys.
Speaker 1: This was great, Mike, thanks for doing that.
Speaker 5: Thanks great.
Speaker 2: Well. Then a use be yours come from my own back.
Speaker 5: Show me boy.
Speaker 2: We men around so many years. I'm good and give
Speaker 2: them above.
Speaker 6: Losch.
Speaker 2: I'm going this well, my wa John, something I can
Speaker 2: big song. Look at my dollar ju I mean.
Speaker 1: To say, look at.
Speaker 2: My shufing up?
Speaker 5: So why is so.
Speaker 2: Well given to my share?
Speaker 5: Why is so well?
Speaker 2: Mean?
Speaker 5: Simply what you like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I'm aware sin.
Speaker 5: Now where it's not out of.
Speaker 2: Your coffee door is open? Now, what will say somewhere
Speaker 2: why it's so well well mean time you get to
Speaker 2: myself like a so, why it's so Where we'll pay
Speaker 5: Yeah,