1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,679 Speaker 1: For members only. Golf Smarter number three hundred and fifty two, 2 00:00:04,759 --> 00:00:07,480 published on October ninth, twenty twelve. 3 00:00:07,639 --> 00:00:12,679 Speaker 2: Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 4 00:00:12,759 --> 00:00:16,320 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 5 00:00:16,359 --> 00:00:22,359 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,239 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 7 00:00:27,399 --> 00:00:31,120 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 8 00:00:31,039 --> 00:00:33,119 Speaker 3: Back when Calloway was Callaway and Eely was run on 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,240 the company, they were so successful. It was basically tailor 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:41,640 made that initiated the strategy of changing product designs, and 11 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:44,000 they tried to do it so fast that Calloway couldn't 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,920 catch up. And they did it as a marketing strategy 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,240 because they couldn't figure out how to be Calloway any 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,600 other way. And it has now become the norm in 15 00:00:52,679 --> 00:00:56,200 the industry. And that's where it came from. Okay, yes, 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,560 we are a regulated business, but that does not mean 17 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,000 we are at the end of the innovative rope, so 18 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:06,400 to speak, not at all. And if you want a 19 00:01:06,439 --> 00:01:10,000 classic case, take hybrids. I argue that you take an 20 00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:13,159 average three hybrid and I'll have you hit it against 21 00:01:13,239 --> 00:01:15,680 the five greatest three irons ever made in the history 22 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,480 of time. Guess who wins Hybrids. Absolutely, so it's been 23 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:23,560 a great product, especially for the average golfer. And understand 24 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:26,599 one thing about golf club design. It has one objective, 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,439 anf airborne and forward. If you can't get the ball 26 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:32,680 up in the air and if it's not moving towards 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,159 the target, then you haven't done anything for anybody. 28 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 1: Part two with the founder of Adams Golf, Barney Adams. 29 00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:51,439 Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing tips and insights from golfers 30 00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:54,959 and golf professionals to help lower your score. It's worked 31 00:01:54,959 --> 00:01:56,719 for your host, Fred Green. 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only. 33 00:01:59,079 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 3: Barney, thank you very much. Thank you for extending me. 34 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: Oh thank you for agreeing to be extended, knowing that 35 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:08,800 you have time. You don't have a tea time today 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,520 that I have to worry about. 37 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,479 Speaker 3: What what a brilliant entry that was. 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,599 Speaker 1: Again, you're you're learning quickly about the world of podcasting. 39 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,360 We make our own rules as we go along. 40 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 3: Here, gotcha why I've been doing that for a year, 41 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:20,080 So that's okay. 42 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,159 Speaker 1: Well, that's why I'm so fascinated by you, because I'm 43 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:24,840 one of those guys too. It kind of like makes 44 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:28,800 it up as I go along, and you know the 45 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,599 way I always did things in my business. I've been 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,439 self employed for over twenty five years now, and it's 47 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,479 to me, it's I'm going to go out there and 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,960 start making it happen and adjust as I move along. 49 00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:38,879 And people are, well, you need a business plan. You 50 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:41,599 got to write up a business plan. I'm like, nay, no, 51 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,159 you know what. Those are all just made up numbers. 52 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,360 Let me go out and get my fingers dirty and 53 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:49,360 see what works, and then if it works, we'll get 54 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,919 someone to pay for it. 55 00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 3: On kindall. Yeah, As a matter of fact, there is 56 00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:59,919 a book called The Wow Factor Wow, written by your 57 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:04,039 truly okay, And I will say that I wrote every 58 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,800 word of it, so it wasn't as dictated to or 59 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:11,879 as interpreted by or so on. And it's about Adam's golf. 60 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:17,159 But more than that, it's really aimed at entrepreneurs. And 61 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,800 I bring that up only in light of what you 62 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:19,439 were just saying. 63 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm listening very closely talk to me about the Wow Factor, 64 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:27,080 and I'm sorry we weren't promoting audible day. Do you 65 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,479 have the audiobook version of. 66 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 3: That, are you kid? I don't know. No, I don't know. 67 00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:32,520 I don't even know if there I don't think there 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,439 is one. I mean, well, we should do that. We 69 00:03:34,479 --> 00:03:37,800 missed the best We just barely missed the bestseller list. 70 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,879 But be that as it me. I just bring that 71 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,520 up because I get asked a lot about how did 72 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,919 you get started? And it's really kind of a long, 73 00:03:46,039 --> 00:03:49,639 involved story. And for those people that are really interested 74 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,120 in if they want to read the book, fine, if 75 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:53,199 they don't find not a big deal, tell us. 76 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:53,719 Speaker 1: About the book. 77 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 3: Well, the book is is? It stems from how did 78 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,599 you get started? Mm hmm. And then when I told 79 00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:03,680 them the story, the response would be, gosh, that's a 80 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:04,240 heck of a story. 81 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,479 Speaker 1: You got to do a book, And that was where 82 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,240 you came up with the title. 83 00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: Wow did not come from there. Wow actually came really 84 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:18,399 from wow? Is my basic concept for running a business? 85 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:18,959 How was that one? 86 00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm now I'm taking notes. Okay, Well stands for there's. 87 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: What I believe? And I bet you you practiced this 88 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:28,399 and you don't even know it. 89 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:29,199 Speaker 1: Probably do. 90 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,079 Speaker 3: What. I introduced my first successful golf club. It was 91 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,439 a club called the Tight Lies a fairway would. And 92 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,120 when I I was I was working at a driving range, 93 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,360 custom fitting people, and I had this idea for a 94 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,920 golf club. And when I got my first samples and 95 00:04:49,959 --> 00:04:53,040 people hit it, I could hear them say to themselves, Wow, 96 00:04:53,079 --> 00:04:57,800 this is really good. And then in my mind that 97 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:03,319 became the wow factor. Because I believe that every I 98 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,000 believe two main things. Number one, I believe that no 99 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,480 business sells a product. I believe that every business sells 100 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:18,040 a service. And once you define your service and brand 101 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,439 your service as it will, as you will, you see, 102 00:05:21,439 --> 00:05:23,720 if you're selling a product, then your competition is everybody 103 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:26,639 else with the same product or knockoff or similar product 104 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,360 or whatever. But if it's a service, then your competition 105 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,040 is only those people who can perform as well as 106 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,680 you can. And I'd rather be in that ballgame. So 107 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,759 so I define that as the wow factor. I want 108 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,879 people when they do business with us to say, Wow, 109 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,920 those guys really have their act together. Wow, those guys 110 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,720 really ship on time. While those guys' quality is great, 111 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:48,959 there are innovative et cetera, et cetera. It was an 112 00:05:48,959 --> 00:05:51,759 attitude we had throughout the company. We used to ask 113 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,160 ourselves all the time when we're making a decision, is 114 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,480 this a wow decision? And that was part of the 115 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:58,600 culture of Adam's Golf. 116 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: You think that would put Apple over the top was 117 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,079 when they went retail and really became a service business. 118 00:06:08,439 --> 00:06:11,759 Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm not I'm not. I'm not smart 119 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:16,000 enough to really understand that and depth, I mean, I 120 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,160 think and frankly speaking, I don't know if it was 121 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:22,600 a conscious decision on their part or if it just 122 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:25,079 sort of happened, you know, because they felt they they 123 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,759 could retail their products better than other people could. I 124 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:28,959 don't know the answer. 125 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,319 Speaker 1: You know, read the Steve Jobs books. 126 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's just that that wow is 127 00:06:36,439 --> 00:06:38,639 not a casual thing with me, while was a culture. 128 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,959 Speaker 1: And you believe, everybody's in a service business. 129 00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I don't care if you're selling hammers hmm. 130 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,079 Speaker 1: And it's all about delivering to your customer. Absolutely, the 131 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:55,600 customer is the product. 132 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 3: Not necessarily. As a matter of fact, I don't even 133 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:02,399 believe in customer surveys. And everybody in the world does that, 134 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,639 including Coca Cola. Remember New Coke. Yeah, co Cola did 135 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,720 two years of customer surveys then come out with it 136 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:11,519 came out with a product it almost broke the company. 137 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what was Henry Ford's line about, you know, 138 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:17,920 like focus groups? I think customer surveys focus groups, right, 139 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:20,319 Henry Ford said, yeah, if you ask people what are 140 00:07:20,319 --> 00:07:22,720 they gonna want a fast. 141 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:26,439 Speaker 3: Exactly right, it'll drive you to mediocrity, right right. I'm 142 00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:29,959 this is arrogant, but I said, look, I know golf equipment. 143 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,839 I mean, I've got years on range, you know, you 144 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,360 name it, the background. I know what makes for a 145 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,680 good golf club, and it's my job to deliver that message. Now, 146 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:50,480 having said that, you can get good consumer reaction as 147 00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:55,680 to presentation, colors, et cetera. Because quite frankly, for me personally, 148 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,560 once I know the club works, well, I don't care 149 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,480 what color it is. It's all about ball light to me. 150 00:08:00,959 --> 00:08:03,439 But and by the way, that was our service was 151 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,000 improving ball flight, not selling golf clubs improving ball flight. 152 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,680 So you can there is some value you can get 153 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,160 from presentation and so on. But I mean, even Ping 154 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,519 over the years has dressed up their clubs. But it's 155 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,040 my job to figure out what's the what's the best, 156 00:08:25,079 --> 00:08:26,800 what helps get the ball up in the air, what 157 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:28,519 helps people play better, et cetera. 158 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,279 Speaker 1: In regards to clubmakers and the products that they put 159 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:40,679 out these days, they have to it seems as if 160 00:08:40,759 --> 00:08:42,279 to stay in business they have to come up a 161 00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:46,320 new product product every six months and convince the consumer 162 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,080 that this product is actually better than the last product 163 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,399 we did. And yet there are so many restrictions put 164 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:56,159 on them on what they can do. To golf clubs. 165 00:08:56,519 --> 00:09:00,679 They've probably reached the limits of what they can do 166 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,559 and making changes a couple of years ago, and yet 167 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,720 they're still coming out with new clubs every six months. 168 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,519 So you see things like a white golf club, and 169 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,919 has everyone convinced that this is now the greatest golf 170 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:12,799 club they've ever hit. 171 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. I don't know if I have 172 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,240 enough time to go over all the places where you're wrong. 173 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,440 So I'll try and oh, please shoot me now I 174 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:28,200 know I am right. At the same time, to start 175 00:09:28,279 --> 00:09:30,799 off with, it isn't six months. I think it's fifteen 176 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:37,000 minutes now. But that was the ele Calloway effect. What 177 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:42,720 happened was back when Calloway was Callaway and there are 178 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,120 nowhere near that now. But back when Calloway was Callaway 179 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,720 and Eli was running the company. They were so successful 180 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,200 that it was basically tailor made that initiated the strategy 181 00:09:53,919 --> 00:09:58,480 of changing product designs, and they tried to do it 182 00:09:58,519 --> 00:10:01,799 so fast that Calloway couldn't care. And they did it 183 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,519 as as a marketing strategy because they couldn't figure out 184 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:07,879 how to be Callaway any other way. And it has 185 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:13,600 now become the norm in the industry. And that's that's 186 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:19,039 where it came from. Okay, yesdr we are a regulated business, 187 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,919 but that does not mean that we are at the 188 00:10:24,039 --> 00:10:27,840 end of the innovative rope, so to speak, not at all. 189 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,039 And if you want a classic case, take hybrids. I 190 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:37,200 argue that you take an average three hybrid and I'll 191 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,200 have you hit it against the five greatest three irons 192 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,399 ever made in the history of time. Guess who wins. 193 00:10:43,879 --> 00:10:44,279 Speaker 1: Hybrids. 194 00:10:44,879 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: Absolutely, So it's been a great product, especially for the 195 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,080 average golfer. And understand one thing about golf club design. 196 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:59,440 It has one objective, an f airborne and forward. If 197 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,679 you can't get a ball up in the air and 198 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,639 if it's not moving towards the target, then you haven't 199 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:07,879 done anything for anybody. So you start with a n 200 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,039 F and you go there hybrids are a great example 201 00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:16,480 of a n F. Yeah, and now we have adjustable drivers. 202 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:22,080 I think maybe for the very serious they're probably something. 203 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,120 I don't think for the average guy they're that big 204 00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:26,679 a deal. But you know, give them credit. That's you know, 205 00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:28,279 the technical innovation is terrific. 206 00:11:29,039 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: Back to then we come back to the ego on 207 00:11:30,639 --> 00:11:32,960 that is like, oh, I've got a driver that I 208 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,919 can adjust like the head. Have you ever adjusted it? 209 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 3: Sure? Yes, Actually I have idsted the other day after 210 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:39,559 I got it out of the water because I was 211 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:43,240 mad at it. But I'll tell you Another one is 212 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,799 the slots in the fairwy woods. If you've seen those, 213 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,840 that makes the fairy woods better, period better. Really, fairywoods 214 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:51,559 with slots. 215 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: Are better on the back part of the top and 216 00:11:55,399 --> 00:11:55,799 the bottom. 217 00:11:55,879 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the and the reason why is because they 218 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,480 create an environment and I won't go into all the 219 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,879 technical stuff, but they create an environment where the MOI 220 00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:04,679 of the fairway wood is now about as great as 221 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,480 the driver. Then that means more distance and that's a 222 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:08,600 significant improvement. 223 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,919 Speaker 1: Are you still involved in club design and club making? 224 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:22,399 Speaker 3: No, I am not involved at all. Taylor made very politely, 225 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,360 and I don't mean this in a facetious way said look, 226 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,399 we're a big, strong company. We get a lot of assets, 227 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:27,639 and we just don't need you anymore. 228 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: They had purchased your company. 229 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 3: Yes, they purchased Adam's Golf in June. 230 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: June of this year. Yes, Oh congratulations. So now you 231 00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:41,200 are very nicely retired. Huh. 232 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 3: Well, I'm I'm going fishing wherever I can because my 233 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,200 golf game stinks. 234 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,399 Speaker 1: Now you've gotten into fishing. 235 00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: Oh, I've been in fishing for years. 236 00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: And have you ever invented a product for fishing for 237 00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:54,600 fishermen and out? 238 00:12:54,639 --> 00:12:56,279 Speaker 3: The funny thing is, in my head. I always invent 239 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,200 stuff in my head. It just never goes any further. 240 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,360 But I actually invented a carry bag that would carry 241 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,759 fishing rods and gear at the same time. And I 242 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,799 might still do something with it, because it's it's not 243 00:13:08,879 --> 00:13:09,720 a terrible idea. 244 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine you're going to be sitting still 245 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:14,080 very much. You probably don't know it. 246 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,519 Speaker 3: It's I am. And again, this is a question I've 247 00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:20,120 been asked a lot. You know, you look back upon 248 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,799 the success that Adam's head and you know, doesn't that 249 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,360 make it feel good? Et cetera, et cetera. And sure, 250 00:13:25,759 --> 00:13:29,279 you know you don't want to be uh whatever, it 251 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,480 is just unappreciative. But by nature, I tend to look forward. 252 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,720 By nature, I'm still the guy that wakes up in 253 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:39,240 the middle of the night with ideas. 254 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: I it sounds like that you're you're your own personal 255 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:44,600 mantras an f. 256 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty, that's a good line. That's I think I'll 257 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:48,000 steal that. 258 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: Yes, it's my pleasure. Airborne and forward huh. 259 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well I don't know about airport. If I 260 00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:55,679 get airport, I got a land. And if my land 261 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:57,279 is going to be a real problem. 262 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,879 Speaker 1: Well that's the a part thinking of albatra hitting hitting 263 00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:01,919 the water, right, it would be. 264 00:14:01,919 --> 00:14:04,039 Speaker 3: Worse than that. It would be worse than that, Yeah, 265 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,559 it would be. It would be a catastrophe. 266 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: But you've been in not just golf. You've been a 267 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,960 lot of you, let's say, taste in a lot of 268 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,279 different industries, haven't you. 269 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:23,279 Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, I started out out a cop. Well, let's see, 270 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,039 I can go back to when I used to clean 271 00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:27,159 out stalls on the farm. 272 00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:28,159 Speaker 1: Where'd you grow up? 273 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:33,159 Speaker 3: Upstate New York and the dairy country? And uh, my 274 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,559 job was a two words both began with s And 275 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,120 the first word for word. 276 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: Was shovel And do you have business cards printed up? 277 00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:45,159 Speaker 3: I was, I was going to do that, yes, And 278 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,240 it was on a farm that was about five miles 279 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,320 from our house, and I used to hitchhike back and forth, 280 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,080 but I never got the same ride twice when I 281 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:53,759 was coming home. 282 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,519 Speaker 1: Oh that's the kid who's shovels. 283 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 3: Yes. And when I got home, my mother made me 284 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,360 stand in the driveway. She hosed me off before she 285 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:02,159 let me in the house. 286 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: Upstate New York in the winter. Huh. 287 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well this was in the spring because the cows 288 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,080 they bordered up all spring all winter, excuse me, and 289 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,559 the stalls would fill up and then somebody had to 290 00:15:12,559 --> 00:15:14,879 go in and clean them out. And what you do 291 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,600 is you pitched the product out the window onto a 292 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,679 wagon and then we got in the wagon. This was 293 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,039 horse drawn in those days, and we'd drive the wagon 294 00:15:23,039 --> 00:15:24,559 out in the field and then spread it out in 295 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,519 the field for fertilizer, and then repeat the process all 296 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:27,960 day long. 297 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:29,639 Speaker 1: I can see where you became an entrepreneur. 298 00:15:30,159 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 3: Yes, it was. Well, it got me out of farming. 299 00:15:32,919 --> 00:15:36,720 That's archer. Yeah, that and bailing. Hey, it made me 300 00:15:36,799 --> 00:15:38,559 decide that farming was not in my future. 301 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so then what was the next Where'd you go 302 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:40,759 from there? 303 00:15:40,799 --> 00:15:43,639 Speaker 3: Well? I went to Clarkson University up in far Upstate, 304 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:49,000 New York. They thought I want to be a student. 305 00:15:49,039 --> 00:15:50,679 I thought I was up there to play sports. But 306 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:54,960 you know, I managed to get through and with sport, 307 00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:58,120 I played basketball, soccer, and golf. 308 00:15:58,919 --> 00:15:59,879 Speaker 1: Interesting, and. 309 00:16:01,399 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 3: I want to work for Corning Glass, very good company. 310 00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:10,039 I was a terrible employee. My idea was that whatever 311 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,320 my job was, that my real job was to tell 312 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,440 the people according how to run the company. And somehow 313 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,639 that didn't go over very. 314 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,639 Speaker 1: Well, you're just shoveling more. Huh. 315 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just couldn't help. But I just saw all 316 00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:22,960 the advantages they were missing, and I thought I pointed 317 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,240 out to them and so on. So I left there 318 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,120 after nine years. 319 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,159 Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing how smart we are when we come 320 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,480 out of college, how much we know about everything in 321 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:31,919 the world. 322 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,279 Speaker 3: Well, I'm lucky because I've always been brilliant. It just 323 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,799 other people haven't recognized that. But I ended up on 324 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,679 the West Coast. I worked in the Silicon Valley in 325 00:16:42,679 --> 00:16:44,759 the semiconductor industry, and I can tell you all you 326 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:48,879 need to know about that in one little vignette. Well, 327 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:55,279 I started with Dave Pell's running his company in nineteen eighty. 328 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,320 This was my big chance to be in the golf industry, 329 00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,320 was that? 330 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,799 Speaker 1: And that was an ex for you. 331 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,159 Speaker 3: It is like, oh that I was. I was, Yeah, 332 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,720 absolutely right. I could use all my skills I accumulated 333 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:09,599 over the years, et cetera. And it took me about 334 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:11,599 two and a half years and I had them in bankruptcy. 335 00:17:12,759 --> 00:17:17,519 And you you could argue that, you know, it wasn't 336 00:17:17,559 --> 00:17:20,160 all my fault, et cetera. But one of the mantras 337 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,599 is that when you're the top guy, you get all 338 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,799 the praise and you get all the garbage, and that's 339 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,839 just life in the big city. So it was my fault. 340 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,079 One might into it from that that maybe the golf 341 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,839 industry wasn't the place for me, but I didn't see 342 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:40,599 it that way. I bought the remaining after the bank 343 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,319 sold off all the assets, so we just had a 344 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:44,240 bunch of tables and stuff. I bought them and started 345 00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:46,759 up on my own, Like you said, no business plan, 346 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,640 no plan of any kind. And I got a job 347 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,559 in the Silicon Valley, a real job that provided income. Well, 348 00:17:55,599 --> 00:18:01,480 I kind of was nurturing my little company. And one 349 00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:04,000 year I went to the PGA Show with my little company, 350 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:07,119 which means that I flew to Ablinge, Texas, loaded up 351 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,720 my products, rented a van a little ten foot booth, 352 00:18:12,839 --> 00:18:16,359 drove it to Orlando, Florida, set it up, worked it 353 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,759 for four full days, tore it down, drove it back 354 00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:23,160 to Abline, Texas, and loved every minute of it. When 355 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,559 I got back to California a couple of months later, 356 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,880 I went to the Semicon Show, the semiconductor show in 357 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,000 San Mateo, with our little testing company. What was that, 358 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,759 I mean, I don't Yeah, it was the early early eighties, 359 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:37,319 I forget exactly. 360 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: Helped beginning of the personal computer era. 361 00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, he helped started it. Yeah, helped them set up 362 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,480 the booth at the show. Yeah. I was gonna work 363 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,960 the booth with them, because you know, that's the right 364 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,559 thing to do, and so on. And I can remember thinking, 365 00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:52,599 as you know, it's gosh, I've been here all day. 366 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,119 It's time for lunch. And I looked at my watch 367 00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:56,960 and it was quarter nine in the morning. 368 00:18:57,079 --> 00:18:57,799 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 369 00:18:58,839 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: And I went to the Bitch Capital group that I 370 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,359 worked for and I said, I'm out of here. I mean, 371 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,000 I don't need any more, you know, I mean, what 372 00:19:06,039 --> 00:19:06,359 the heck. 373 00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:08,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was at a golf show all day long 374 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,039 and didn't even realize it was. 375 00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 3: Killed myself, killed by I could hardly walk when I 376 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,000 got home. Yeah, absolutely, at nine, at eight forty five, 377 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:18,680 I'm ready to leave. So I left the Silicon Valley 378 00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:24,359 started up on my own. Should have gone broke, Well, 379 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,920 I was broke. I mean, what the heck I would 380 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,440 to me, I should have. But I basically ran a 381 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,559 Ponzi scheme where I ended up with forty two credit 382 00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:35,839 cards and borrowed money from one and paid off a 383 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,759 little on the next one. And that's how I financed 384 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:42,839 myself for several years. And I'm giving you the cliff notes. 385 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,920 Version came up with a club called the tight Lies. 386 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,319 It got it became popular on its own. 387 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,519 Speaker 1: It really it kind of exploded. 388 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 3: Huh oh yeah. We it became the largest selling Fairway 389 00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:01,839 would in the industry. We did a TV infomercial. It 390 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,279 became the largest TV golf infommercial in history. We want sales. 391 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640 Our sales went from minuscule, you know, a couple hundred 392 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,640 thousand bucks to eighty million in three years. 393 00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: Wow. 394 00:20:11,839 --> 00:20:15,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, Wall Street came in ninety eight, we went public. Oops, 395 00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:20,240 the industry kind of slowed down. We fought our way. 396 00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: Through, you know, in retrospect, was the going public? Was 397 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000 that a valuable thing? 398 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: It was valuable because it gave us money to stay alive. 399 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:29,759 Speaker 1: I see. 400 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,759 Speaker 3: And then uh, there was a kind of a dust 401 00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:37,599 up on the board and they wanted to sell the company. 402 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,880 So Tailorman came along and bought it, and I go fishing. 403 00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:41,960 Nice end of story. 404 00:20:43,319 --> 00:20:48,839 Speaker 1: Wow does what would Dave Pel's What were you doing 405 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,000 with him? And why do you need we made? 406 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:52,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, we had. He had a product called Fellow Lights 407 00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:55,119 back in those days, which which didn't work, but they 408 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,799 got a lot of detention at the Dame and then 409 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:59,440 we I actually studied buddy of putters for two years 410 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,920 of my life. And funny people, you know, want to 411 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,960 explain putters to be like I've never seen one, And 412 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,200 I actually spent probably more time on putters with Pelzy 413 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:09,880 and I did anything else. So we just, you know, 414 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,640 we were trying to come up with innovative ideas. 415 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: Wait, what's your opinion of the state of the equipment 416 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,680 industry right now? The golf equipment industry. 417 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,759 Speaker 3: Well, it's changed drastically and it's I think it's going 418 00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:24,160 to continue to change in the same we see. When 419 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,119 I was active, we had like four thousand pro shop 420 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,359 accounts and are roughly an equal number of retailers that 421 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,640 we call doors. Today, you have still got four thousand 422 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,400 pro shops accounts roughly and five retail accounts. 423 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:38,519 Speaker 1: Interesting. 424 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that consolidation means that it's become a numbers game. 425 00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:45,319 You'll walk into a retailer. He looks at the market 426 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:47,799 share data. He says, well, your number three points four 427 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,960 will give you ex percent of the budget. Thank you, 428 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:50,640 and goodbye. 429 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,799 Speaker 1: No conversation, no negotiation. 430 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 3: H's you know. 431 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: No relationships, forget that stuff. 432 00:21:57,519 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 3: There's there's always relationships. I mean, you're dealing with human beings, 433 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,839 but you know, but the metrics is that they pretty 434 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,559 much have to deal that way to cover themselves. It's 435 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:08,720 pretty hard for a guy in a buying job to say, gee, 436 00:22:08,759 --> 00:22:10,880 I Fred, I think you got some great products, and 437 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,799 even though nobody knows who you are, I'm going to 438 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,000 give you some of the Taylor Made's four space that 439 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:15,799 ain't going to happen. 440 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: Where does the next tide lines come from does it happen? 441 00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:26,960 I mean, yeah, we had hybrids. 442 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:32,519 Speaker 3: They'll always be innovation. But because I'm gonna give I'm 443 00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:37,480 going to give you an answer. Call me in a year, 444 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,759 maybe less. I had one of those middle of the 445 00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:45,839 night ers. So we shall see what we shall see 446 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,119 him in the middle of the night in the shower 447 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:49,079 a big your pardon? 448 00:22:49,559 --> 00:22:51,079 Speaker 1: Do you have those in the middle of the night 449 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:51,839 or in the shower? 450 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 3: I in the middle of the night, I wake up, up, 451 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,319 wake up, and I write it down. I get up 452 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,279 the next morning and it says. 453 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: But then you're like, oh, that's really a good idea, 454 00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:04,799 or I'm going back to sleep. 455 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, basically, yeah, So what the hell's the matter with you? 456 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: You've had a couple of those in your life, right 457 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,799 at all? 458 00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 3: Yeah? Lots of them. 459 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've made some of them work. 460 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, some of them have worked out okay, and some 461 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,839 of them been a joke. But that's you know, that's life. 462 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, and haven't you learned a tremendous amount from 463 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 those jokes? 464 00:23:24,759 --> 00:23:27,279 Speaker 3: Well, you learn more from you will learn I said 465 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,079 this in the book. You'll learn way more from failure 466 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,119 than you do from success. 467 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: I call that experience. 468 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, in the book, what I 469 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,799 really try to do is point out all the dumb 470 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:36,359 things I did, because that's how people learn. 471 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 2: Right. 472 00:23:36,799 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: You don't really learn much from from doing something right, 473 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:40,960 because oh, well, I better keep doing this. What am 474 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:42,759 I doing? I'm not sure, but I'm going to keep going. 475 00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:44,799 Speaker 3: Well, if you do stuff right, you think you're really smart. 476 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, and everyone tells you are. That's what makes it worse. 477 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, you find out that you're not so smart, and 478 00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:50,559 by that time it's too late. 479 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: Right right, Well, again, you said you learn a lot 480 00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,920 from doing something wrong. Again, I call that experience. 481 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 3: Could be I mean, if it's all the experience, if 482 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,559 you recognize some people don't recognize. 483 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: It, right, that's so so true. But you think that 484 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,680 that their innovation continues. And we're talking to the golf industry, 485 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,559 and we can talk to any industry. 486 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: And will always continue. It's the bane of the golf industry. 487 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,640 I realize it's pretty much a fashion business today, but 488 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,720 it's a fashion business still with innovation involved. 489 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:32,279 Speaker 1: And what about the status of golf courses with private 490 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:36,319 courses seem to be struggling, public courses are struggling to 491 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,799 stay open. Where where do you think that is headed? 492 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 3: Play the right t's you'll go a long way to 493 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,519 fixing the problem. 494 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: Real simple? 495 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 3: Do you told you I'm a simple person? Yeah? 496 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,759 Speaker 1: Did you come up with a nameta forward to? Or 497 00:24:54,759 --> 00:24:57,279 did PGA do focus. 498 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 3: With that name? And quite frankly, I didn't like it 499 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,960 because I thought it was kind of delivered the wrong message. 500 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,759 But I certainly appreciated their their support and getting on 501 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:07,720 the bandwagon and so on. 502 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,039 Speaker 1: So you know, I have to agree with you. I 503 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,319 don't like it either, because again it's like it's almost. 504 00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: I wanted I want to tour equivalent. They thought the 505 00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:17,799 word equivalent was too much of a mouthful. 506 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,319 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And you keep saying people are smart and 507 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:22,759 they're saying no, no, no, we don't want to make them 508 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:23,440 hard words. 509 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 3: That was I What can I tell you? It's their sandbox, so. 510 00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: Go get your own cat and put it in their sandbags. 511 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 3: Exactly. 512 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go back to tea at forward 513 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,559 for a while. It's an interesting concept. It's hard to 514 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,720 understand and it shouldn't be and the name doesn't do 515 00:25:44,839 --> 00:25:47,559 it justice and it kind of sends you in the 516 00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:48,240 wrong direction. 517 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,079 Speaker 3: So we agree I think. So all right, good, will 518 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,200 you come up with any uh brilliant ideas let me know? Well, yeah, 519 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,880 because I'm I'm trying as hard as I can. 520 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,759 Speaker 1: All right, so then I'm going to throw this out. 521 00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:03,119 We have a global audience of golfers who've been listening 522 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:04,480 now for an hour. 523 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,839 Speaker 3: Two They can't be awake now, they're probably asleep. 524 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: Well no, they put it on pause and they came Okay, 525 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,559 they take a nap and yeah, they come back. And 526 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:14,119 actually some people even listen multiple times. And I think 527 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,200 you're so entertaining. They're going to be they need to 528 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,359 get a life. But go on, well, hey, listen, they 529 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:18,920 play golf. 530 00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 3: Well that's true. 531 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,039 Speaker 1: There they've already got big trouble. 532 00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:26,039 Speaker 3: Since the yard, I understand. 533 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,039 Speaker 1: But if they have answers, they're probably right. 534 00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:29,599 Speaker 3: They're probably late for their psychiatrists. 535 00:26:29,599 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: It's probably well, they're caring. They're probably sitting in their 536 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,880 psychiatrists listening to this, or on a bus, or they're 537 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,599 at the driving range, so they're walking there. 538 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 3: I only know those people on one of them, so 539 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,079 stand we're. 540 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,559 Speaker 1: Both one of them. We are them. 541 00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:48,160 Speaker 3: Maybe they they enter the r S. 542 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,079 Speaker 1: We if we have people uh from anywhere on the 543 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:54,599 face of the earth that have better names for this. 544 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,240 Should we send him to you? 545 00:26:56,279 --> 00:27:00,319 Speaker 3: No, send him to the PGA. They don't. 546 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,839 Speaker 1: You're done, You're talked out, and send them to me. 547 00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 3: You're send them to the you're you're, you're singing to 548 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,079 the choir. It's waste of time. 549 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,279 Speaker 1: That's true. That's true. And you wanted to use PGA equivalent, 550 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:17,440 and they're like man, tour facility, tour approach, tour like 551 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:18,359 tour approach. 552 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,599 Speaker 3: There we go. That's my latest one. 553 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,039 Speaker 1: That's a good one, tour approach because approaches has so 554 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:26,000 many meanings to it on that. 555 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 3: I understand, and and that tour approach is actually my 556 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:31,400 last one I could. I I'd like to take credit that, 557 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,519 but a friend of mine came up with approach rather 558 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:34,960 than equivalent was an easier word. 559 00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: And PGA is involved. So it's not like you're infringing 560 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:40,839 on the word tour. It's not like sorry that that 561 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,000 word is copyrighted. We can't touch that word. 562 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,279 Speaker 3: You know, I'm hip. We'll see what happens. 563 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: Tour. I like tour approach because yeah, approach your approach 564 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,759 shot and and playing it like the I like. 565 00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 3: That one very good, very good, and twenty five million 566 00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:58,000 of your listeners right to the PGA and tell them 567 00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:59,079 to change it to tour approach. 568 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,319 Speaker 1: And how about this, It'll be small, a small P 569 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,680 capital p r O small ach. So it's a pro. 570 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 3: You're way beyond me, way beyond me. I listen, I 571 00:28:10,519 --> 00:28:11,160 told you before. 572 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: I'm I want you to get your fishing rod out 573 00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:15,559 and reel me back in. Now I am getting a 574 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:17,400 little too far. My wife does this a lot when 575 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,000 I start with my idea, she throws out her imaginary 576 00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:22,880 fishing rod and reels me back in, going whoa Fred, 577 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:23,839 Come on back, Come on. 578 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 3: Here, Fred, Here Fred. That's exactly right. 579 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:32,519 Speaker 1: Is that why people always said I name my dog Fred. Yes, 580 00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:37,599 it's a bad, bad first name. Wow, Hey, Barney, I 581 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,880 really enjoyed getting to meet you. This has been very 582 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,200 entertaining for me. Thank you very much, my pleasure, and 583 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:47,400 I wish you all the luck of the world. And please, 584 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,640 when you get that that, when that next middle of 585 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,319 the night idea starts to happen, can you share it 586 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:53,720 with us? 587 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:54,839 Speaker 3: I certainly will. 588 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate that too. 589 00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: I'll put you guys right in the middle of my list. 590 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: Sure, and actually top of the list. Is that guy 591 00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,799 swinging the club right behind you, right right? You didn't 592 00:29:05,799 --> 00:29:08,200 tell anybody who was Wait, you said your all time 593 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,319 favorite golfer, it's Arnold. I know that. I'm looking at 594 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:12,759 the picture. But this is all I've been. 595 00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 3: Well, I've I've been very fortunate. I've played with him 596 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,799 a couple of times. He's my hero, and I told him. 597 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:18,799 I told him he was my hero. 598 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,319 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure he loved hearing that. 599 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: He's a good guy. 600 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,119 Speaker 1: He's the first guy ever. You're the first one ever 601 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,200 to tell him that. I'm sure. 602 00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:26,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, right, first million. 603 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, But I mean, so was he your hero 604 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:30,759 before you played. 605 00:29:30,519 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 3: And after you played? Yes? Yeah, back back to the sixties, yeah. 606 00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: Quality human being. 607 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:40,519 Speaker 3: Remember I went to college in the fifties. Yes, so 608 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,599 just just got out of the gut approach to era. 609 00:29:44,319 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: So did you. You know they say, if you remember 610 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,079 the sixties, you weren't there. 611 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,279 Speaker 3: Well, this, but by the sixth by the time the 612 00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:54,119 sixties came along, I had a job, I was married, 613 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,559 I had a kid, and I worked every day. The 614 00:29:56,599 --> 00:29:58,640 sixties were not part of my life as you're referring 615 00:29:58,640 --> 00:29:58,960 to them. 616 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: No, No, you're that's more of the mad Men's sixties. 617 00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:05,480 You were you were, Yeah, you were working. You missed 618 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,960 that part, Yeah, no hippie for you. 619 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:09,119 Speaker 3: Yep, I I missed all I missed all of that stuff. 620 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,839 Speaker 1: But you are right there at the beginning of Silicon 621 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,000 Valley be case starting to explode. Miss that too, Yeah, 622 00:30:14,039 --> 00:30:14,599 but it wasn't that. 623 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,359 Speaker 3: The Silicon Valley is full of wonderful, brilliant physicists and 624 00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,640 mes and ees and so on, and I'm none of 625 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,000 the above, So I didn't belong there. 626 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,279 Speaker 1: You feel like you're lucky to where you've been and 627 00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:29,279 what you've gotten. 628 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,039 Speaker 3: Of course that you don't think I got here on 629 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:34,799 talented you. Of course I'm lucky. 630 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,119 Speaker 1: Wow, lucky guy. It's a wonderful life. 631 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 3: Huh, yes it is. Say Fred McMurray could do that. 632 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, see back to Fred. I named my dog 633 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,240 Fred was after Fred McMurray. That's right, all right, party, 634 00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:56,880 best wishes, good health to you and more great ideas. 635 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: Thanks very much, man. 636 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: I just received an update that Barney's being inducted into 637 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,480 the Clarkson University Athletic Hall of Fame. He was there 638 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,839 from the late fifties to early sixties, playing, As he 639 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,160 told his golf, basketball and soccer. But of course he 640 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,960 really made his mark in the sports world after he graduated, 641 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:21,759 and well we heard why. And so he's a benefactor 642 00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,880 of Clarkson University as well, and so it's very kind 643 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,160 of him to do that, and so he's being honored 644 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:27,559 as such.