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Speaker 1: Greetings, friends, and welcome to the podcast of Jewish Ideas,

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a Torah in motion production. I'm jj Kimbrey. Rabbi Joseph B.

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Solivatik was a giant of twentieth century Jewish life. A

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Titanic scholar, teacher, and community leader, Rabbis Salavajuk was a

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leading light of Yeshiva University for several decades, ordering thousands

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of rabbis and cementing his place as a foremost authority

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within the modern Orthodox community. In addition to this, from

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Solivatrick was also one of the great Jewish thinkers of

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the twentieth century, having received a thorough training both in

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classical Jewish texts and in modern European philosophy at the

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University of Berlin. It was this remarkable combination of the

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traditional and academic that lent solav Atrix's ideas a unique

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sophistication second to none, and it is this intricate flexity

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of thought that we hope to be exploring today with

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us to discuss the writings and legacy of Rabbi solav

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ajac Is Doctor Daniel Reinholds, the Dean and Professor of

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jewsh Philosophy at the Bernard Revel Graduate School Jewish Studies

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at Yeshima University. Professor Reinhold has written and edited numerous

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works in the field of Jewish thoughts, most saliently nietzsche

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sola Agic and Contemporary Jewish Thoughts, published by Cambridge University

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Press in twenty and eighteen. It is a pleasure to

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welcome Professor Reinholds the podcast of Jewish Ideas Today.

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Speaker 2: Professor welcome, Thank you very much, j J. Pleasure to

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be here.

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Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent. So let us set the stage as I

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want with perhaps a bit of a biographical overview, and

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can you give us something of the life and times

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of a slave ajac When where did he live, his associations,

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his pursuits. Let's have a background for this figure.

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Speaker 3: Sure, so it's his first It's worth noting that the

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as if yet there's no critical biography of of Rosolovachik.

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We know plenty about him, obviously as a significant public figure,

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constantly wrote, spoke, taught plenty of material thumb short biographies

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and articles relevant to his biography, and a good book

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by Seth Farber on his work in Boston setting up

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my Monody School.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, a critical.

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Speaker 3: Biography is a certainly something that would be extremely helpful.

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But some basics. He's born in nineteen oh three in Prujan,

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it's often said in Poland. Truth is, it's been in

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many kind of ruled by many different authorities. Where the

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Poland Russia it's right now, it's actually in Belarus. And

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he was born into a significant rabbinical family of Lithuanian

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nug dick persuasion, heavily associated with the Vologian Yeshiva, his

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grandfather Raubrieim Soliachik in allgreates, this kind of method, risker

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method that I'm sure will get to his father up

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Moha Soliachik. He wasn't schooled in the sense that one

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would be today. There were no high schools teaching you know,

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Jewish studies in the morning and math and physics in

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the afternoon. So was homeschooled, and that meant almost exclusively

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in Jewish texts with Talmud intended to be at the

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fore interestingly taught at home, initially by khasid a Rabbi

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Barich Reisberg, who he speaks very fondly of in later

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years and clearly had a lasting influence and the story

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is told that Solihchik's mother had some concerns and asked

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his grandfather reph him to you know, to I guess

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examine sol of Hix's learning, and he was concerned that

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there was rather too much hussi dut being taught and

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not enough talmod. So instead, sola Hchik's father upmost of

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sol of Hix took on the educational burden. He received

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some general education at home. At the very least he

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imbibed a lifelong love of literature from his mother, But

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formally speaking, his first real secular qualifications are He gets

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a diploma from the Liberal Arts Gymnasium of Dubno in

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nineteen twenty two, though we don't actually know if he

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formally attended classes there, and then he did a few

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semesters studying political science in at the Free Polish University

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in nineteen twenty four, but most significantly, of course, in

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nineteen twenty six he atturns the Friedrich Wilhelm University of Berlin,

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where he pursues a PhD on the philosophy of harramank

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Cohen and on the philosophy the pure philosophy if you like.

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Speaker 2: Of HERMANK. Cohen not on hermank Coin's Jewish works.

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Speaker 3: He gains that in nineteen thirty two, having got married

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to the previous year in nine thirty one to his

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wife Tanya, who herself was the holder of PhD in education,

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and then in nineteen thirty two, following this, he joins

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the family in the United States. His father had moved

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there in ninety twenty nine to be the Russiashiva at

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rietz At Yeshiva ro Yitzak Elhanan the why of Yu

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the Yeshiva Yushiba University, So he joins the family there

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and shortly thereafter becomes a I suppose Chief Rabbi Boston

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Education and Kashrut a major fosi FokI for him at

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that time. He sets up in the Mimonod school in

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nineteen thirty seven, which is you know, somewhat revolutionary at

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co ed school teaching.

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Speaker 2: Talmud co ed that.

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Speaker 3: He's considered for position of Chief Rabbi tel Aviv in

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nineteen thirty five gives a sure at Raf Kook's Yeshiva

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americasar Raf that impresses rough Cook. Apparently, he was also

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invited in the sixties to become Chief Rabbi of Israel,

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but he decides not to anyway. Nineteen forty one, his

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father dies and he takes over as head of Rietz

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and day to day from nineteen forty one through to

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nineteen eighty five, that's what he were. He was a

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mugged sheer right. He taught talmud day to day, ordaining

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influencing countless rabbis, but at the same time also teaches

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at the Bernardo Revel Graduate School as a professor of

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Jewish philosophy through the forties and fifties. We're getting now

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some student class notes beginning to appear over the past

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decade or so, and at that point begins to compose

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the theological philosophical works that are the reason we're probably

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talking about him today in terms of at least his

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fame beyond the modern Orthodox world, though the current extent

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of his significance and influence, I suppose as a thinker

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took some time to build a colleague of mind.

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Speaker 2: David Schatz wrote a piece.

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Speaker 3: Where he noted this was already a decade ago, but

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he said of three hundred and eighty three English or

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Hebrew pieces that would show up as studying Rabbi Soliachik

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in Rumby. Only seventy six of them are before he

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died in nineteen ninety three, so things really coalesced, if

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you like, after his death in terms of him becoming

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a major, a significant figure of academic study of his philosophy.

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But anyway, so publishes his first major work, kalak man

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Isha Halacha in a Hebrew journal in nineteen forty four.

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It's translated by Presor Lawrence Captain in nineteen eighty three.

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Again that's significant in bringing him to the wider world.

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But then other than you know, the odd articles, an

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article in nineteen forty five Sacred and Profane as it's

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translated College Bohol. It wasn't until the nineteen sixties we

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see a series of articles appearing in the journal tradition

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there was apparently a tradition of family reticence to publish,

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so there isn't, you know, a copious amount of publications.

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But in the sixties we start to see we see Confrontation,

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a very significant article dealing with interfaith dialogue in nineteen

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sixty four, and probably most significantly nineteen sixty five, Lonely

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Man of Faith, particularly for me by the way, that's

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the work that got me into Jewish philosophy. And then

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there's a volume of Tradition consisting of articles by Russell

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Regi nineteen seventy eight, Uvi kashtem Michamp published in Hebrew

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nineteen seventy nine. Other major essay, though that was begun

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in the nineteen forties.

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Speaker 2: So he seems to.

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Speaker 3: Have had works that he was working on for a

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long period before they saw the light of day. Notably

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among those is his book Balachic Mind, which was only

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published in nineteen eighty six, though written initially in the

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nineteen forties. So yeah, those that I suppose, of the

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major works, there's only of a shift in the nineteen sixties,

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people feel where his work becomes more existential. It's kind

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of more of an emotional sort of existential peace to it,

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and he ultimately he kind of retires from public life

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in nineteen eighty six and he dies in nineteen ninety three.

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But yeah, kind of potted biography, I guess that will No,

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that's that's very good.

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Speaker 1: That was the improblem because it covered both his life

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and his works. So as you mentioned that he had

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I would think it's fair to say two very major

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educational formative influences, right, which may be characterized it as

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brisk and Berlin. Those are the two schools within which

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he gained a very large amount of his uh I

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was world view, and then you know of his general

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educational orientation. So can you take us a little bit

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through those? I mean, what defined these two schools of

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intellectual activity and to what extent in what ways do

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they shape his future ideas? Right?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean the Brisker method, or you know, the

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analytic method is a mode of toll would study inaugurated

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by his grandfather at him, and it's revolutionary and it

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doesn't simply take the Talmud as a text to be

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studied at face value in order to understand just the

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flow of the argument, the back and the forth that

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shutler for tari as we say, of the legal or

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for that matter, non legal discussions, often with a focus

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on practical conclusions instead.

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Speaker 2: Underlying the Brisker.

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Speaker 3: Method is the idea that the time is a self

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contained theoretical structure, a system worthy of study for its

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own sake, independent of its connection to practical reality. And

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what the method does is analyze the text conceptually, searching

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for underlying principles or concepts that stand behind the material

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being analyzed, systematize it much like in sort of h

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it's own view, much like a scientist would conceptualize, you know,

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his or her data in consons and principles in order

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to categorize the data of the natural world. My monodes

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is Mishnertra becomes a key text here where you know,

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the legal conclusions are the outer expression of a conceptual

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or conceptualization of the law. And that's very very important

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to Rasolovchik, this idea, that halarcha, and for the moment,

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let's take that narrowly just to mean Jewish law is

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the expression of some conceptual system, you know, for Rasolovacik

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in his work Halachic Mind, that work is sort of

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an argument that concludes with this very famous statement that

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there is only a single source from which a Jewish

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philosophical Weltenschung worldview could emerge, and that's the Halarja. And

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that's that's revolutionary if you think about let's take my

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monodies for my monodyes, the repository of Jewish philosophy are

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mab Rati, Mars America var the opening chapters of Genesis

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and Chapter one Ofzekiel. Not legal texts, right alait legal

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texts are not a source of philosophy. It's more the

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argadic material. But for Urslochik, halacha itself, the legal text,

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the legal disputes, that is a source for Jewish philosophy,

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and that's pretty revolutionary actually, and grows out of this

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belief of the Briskers that there is this conceptual system

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behind the halachic system. What's different for Oslavchik is that

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he's going to dig further down, shall we say so,

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Just to take one very schematic example, when he talks

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about repentance and he finds a contradiction between two halarchic

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statements that my monodies makes about repentance, he analyzes that

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by seeing them reflecting two different categories of repentance that

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he calls atonement or cuparah and purification or Taharah. But

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then philosophically he'll go beyond that because he'll start to

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look at what theories of time lie behind these concepts

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of purification and atonement. So you're digging down kind of

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further and further into the background theories and these background

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theories that lie behind even the harlachic content. That's really

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important to Slovachk and grows out of this kind of

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his brisker background.

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Speaker 2: Shall we say, in.

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Speaker 3: Terms of Berlin, if you want to, if you want

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me to go on to kind of straight onto that.

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So as we said, he's a PhD. On the philosoph

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of Haromon Cohen, I mean, for our purposes, obviously, so

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Haran Cohen was the founder of a school of Neo

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Kantian thought. I suppose, for our purposes what some of

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the most important elements of that that Rasslovata would take

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forward through his career. I would say number one is

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a fascination with and commitment to science and scientific method.

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He writes that in Alaric Man he says that religion

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should ally itself with the forces of clear logical cognition,

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as uniquely exemplified in the scientific method. Now, exactly what

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scientific method means for him is actually an interesting question.

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But one of the key things it means for him

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is and this again takes us back to the kind

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of Alaric basis of his philosophy. It means basing it

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on data. Right, you can't pluck philosophy out of thin air.

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Jewish philosophy can't be done by just saying, well, I

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think and just coming up with something. It has to

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be based on data. That's key in terms of if

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you're like scientific method. He goes beyond that in terms

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of his commitment to science. So, for example, the creation

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narrative as he understands it, he states he is more

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akin to modern science than it is to the way

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that Christianity, or indeed many Jewish thinkers as far as

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he's concerned in the past, have read it. You know,

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he sees this as continuous human beings emerge through a

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natural process, rather than splitting the story into with some

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kind of miraculous change that brings about human beings. He's

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very naturalistic in the way he approaches his philosophy. Obviously

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not a pure naturalist. He believes in God, so that

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is far from natural.

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Speaker 2: But you know, he has.

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Speaker 3: Little time for strange metaphysical properties. His understanding of holiness.

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For example, it's not some strange, ghostly other worldly property.

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It's more institutional to do with midsvot right, So you

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do something and that is a market of holiness. It's

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not some strange property that hovers. So you know, those

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are key from his Berlin Neocantianism, but also I think

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key and emerging out of the tradition of idealism, if

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something else that is particularly modern. If you like about

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his thought, I'll try and put this as simply as

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non technically as I can. But idealism, philosophically speaking, philosophy

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is traditionally seen as a search for objective truth. Right,

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there's a reality out there. It exists, ready made as

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it is, independently of human beings. If I disappear, the

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world still out there the same, and knowledge is a

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matter of us letting all that flood in. So to speak, Right,

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we record or we photograph the reality out there. Right,

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it's already made world. We open our eyes. It hits us,

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we know it. But they're all manner of problems with

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that picture. To give you again a non technical analogy,

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think about a newborn baby. So a newborn baby has

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presumably all sorts of experience, right, things hitting their retina,

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but it's a complete mess. It's a jumble. They can't

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actually category, they can't even see shapes or colors. They

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don't have those concepts. So the way the world, if

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you like, hits us isn't in and of itself necessarily

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organized until we formed the concepts to organize it. Thus,

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and the idea is the kind of the basic idealist

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view would be that it is human cognitiate, right, human

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beings that so to speak, organize that into a coherent experience.

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It's not a given, it's not already made. So Herman

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Cohen sees the world as we experience it as in

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some way being constituted by our scientific thinking. We contribute

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to the constitution of the experience that we have. It's

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not just out there as it is and we simply

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passively record it. And that's really important to Rosolovachic because

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while that can't be the case in its entirety, there

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are real things out there. There's God, there's right, there's

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a world. But he does take on the idea that

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the idea of some pure objective world as it is

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is an illusion, is a chime error. He does think

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our knowledge of the world is mediated by our conceptual schemes.

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And why that's so important is because for him that

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opens up the possibility of studying the Jewish way that

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our experience is mediated. Right, How does Judaism understand the

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concept of time or space or causality. That's Jewish philosophy.

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That's what we can do. We can find the Jewish

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perspective by mining our textual tradition halachic and otherwise. It's

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not purely halak right, the whole textual tradition. But we

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mine that data in order to understand key concepts of Judaism,

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of Jewish thought. But the point being those aren't exclusive,

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those aren't, so to speak, in competition with a scientific way.

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Speaker 2: Of understanding it. It's different.

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Speaker 3: If I'm in a laboratory, then you know, time is

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something that moves on. I can't change the past. If

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I'm doing repentance, then according to Rasslovac, there's a sense

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in which I can.

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Speaker 2: Change in the past.

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Speaker 3: He wouldn't bring that concept of time to bear if

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he were in a laboratory doing science. But when you're

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doing Jewish so to speak, when you're trying to understand Judaism, well,

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then there is a concept of time that you can

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bring to bear. So this and this comes from this idealism, right,

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the idea that there isn't a single ready made world

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out there, that the world is mediated by conceptual schemes,

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and there are multiple conceptual schemes that pick up on

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different aspects of reality. One of them's a Jewish one,

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and that's what he's interested in.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, fine, So I want to ask you a

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question wich you've partially answered already, but perhaps to expand

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on it, which is looking at Sulovicik's writings as a whole.

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I mean, obviously, as you say that, there are many

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they are manifold, many of them will published after his death.

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He was the most prolific posthumous writer, as has often

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been said. But so question is, were there certain major issues,

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major difficulties, things that bothered him that could be said

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to be animating him across his writings? Were there certain

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major not even major themes, but just issues that had

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to be addressed and were perhaps addressed in different different

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points and different methods, et cetera. So you know, are

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there anything that could be readily identified?

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Speaker 3: Let's say, Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, in part,

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maybe it's worth beginning with the things that didn't bother him.

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Some criticize him for this, but he famously says at

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the beginning of a Lonely Man of faith, you know,

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problems of biblical criticism, for examples, they've never bothered me.

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I'm not interested, ye gind of, that's never really perturbed me. Also,

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again in line with his Cantian influences.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 3: He's not really engaged in traditional metaphysics, so you know,

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you will find it difficult to find him talking about

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proofs for the existence of God, or scholastic discussions of

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the nature of God, divine attributes, even you know, questions

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about rewill versus omniscience, these kind of traditional questions. For

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Russell of Achik, it seems that his central concern is

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to do with how to make sense of faith in

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the modern world? Right, how does faith speak to modern man?

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We live in a world Again, this is in Lonely

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Man of Faith, where he talks about, you know, how

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can a man of faith who lives by this doctrine

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that isn't particularly utilitarian, it's you know, it's not going

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to help you conquer the world or make a million bucks?

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What meaning does faith have in our contemporary society? And

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particularly for him, of course, the Halacic life, which one

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might think of as some outmotive, passive, anti modern, you know,

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way of life. And he's not really doing this particularly apologetically.

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He's not interested in proving the truth of Orthodox studism,

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for example, right, it's not interested in justifying it. He

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is interested in, if you like, displaying it and in

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all its glory in terms of and I think he

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thinks he has something very novel to say about it

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that maybe hasn't been said before, certainly not from or

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within the Orthodox world, whereas he's situated. So I think

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it's really to do with trying to explicate the continuing

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relevance of faith, you know, within modern society. Probably if

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I were going to think about a theme that runs

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through I think that might be it interesting.

359
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Speaker 1: Okay, fine, fair enough. A question then, about method, which

360
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has always struck me that something interesting, which is that,

361
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in a few of his different works, loves to explore

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an issue through archetypes. He sets up, I don't know

363
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if there's a better way to say it, just sort

364
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of idealized figures, gives them names, and proceeds to describe them,

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all the while admitting that these figures don't really exists

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in actuality. They're they're they're sort of I don't know,

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figments of his you know, philosophically vibrant imagination. Let's say, so,

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I want to ask on that, you know, typical examples

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given an Adam one and Adam too from writing amount

370
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of faith or halak man versus scientific man or whatever

371
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it is. Firstly, where did this come from? This, this

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construction of archetypes, and what is what was he seeking

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to do through these archetypes, which let's say he couldn't

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do through you know, other ways of writing philosophy, other

375
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ways of writing Jewish thoughts. I mean, it's it's a

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very strange, very very unusual appearance, let's say, within within

377
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the history of Jewish thoughts. So you talked to us.

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Speaker 2: About that, right, so.

379
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Speaker 3: Well, Number one, this this method of typologies, right of

380
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drawing these these ideal typologies, is from a kind of

381
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early twentieth century thinker, Edward Spranger, who used this method.

382
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Speaker 2: And clearly this is.

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Speaker 3: Therefore infiltrated, you know, ra soli hi. It's consciousness such

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that he feels that it is a useful method for

385
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him to express, I guess, aspects of religious faith. And

386
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,839
this again comes back to his avoidance of metaphysics. Right,

387
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:47,400
so the fact that human understanding for him cannot, in

388
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a kind of Cansen sense, reach beyond human experience. So

389
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as to talk about, for example, you know, the nature

390
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of God, the nature of the afterlife, I don't know, right,

391
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so we have no data to work.

392
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Speaker 2: On their, right.

393
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Speaker 3: So instead his philosophy is far more phenomenological. It's much

394
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more to do with trying to analyze the nature of

395
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religious experience, the structure of the religious consciousness. So you know,

396
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those are the kinds of things he's able to do

397
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so in trying to talk about the nature of the

398
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religious consciousness, talking about archetypal figures who maybe doing so

399
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:38,279
allows us to crystallize how Judaism or faith more generally

400
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looks at certain values.

401
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Speaker 2: Right.

402
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:46,039
Speaker 3: I think the typeological approach is a useful one, and

403
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:48,480
you know, it would be worth maybe us us digging

404
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:51,640
down a little deeper because you mentioned this notion of

405
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,000
these made up or you know, not these types not

406
00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:00,440
necessarily being real beings. I think it's interesting because in

407
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,640
Lonely Man of Faith he seems to say he's talking

408
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,319
about a real life, real world problem. So Lonely Man

409
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,160
of Faith strikes me as a real type a man

410
00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:17,279
not so much or I've maybe come to that a

411
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:20,079
little later. But if we let's take Lonely Man of

412
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,400
Faith as an example, and dig down a little bit

413
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,079
on Adam one and Adam two in order to really,

414
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,240
you know, answer the question. So drawn from the data

415
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,960
as ever right the opening chapters. In this case of

416
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,640
the ratio of Genesis, we have two different accounts of

417
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,880
the creation of man, and he identifies differences, the textual

418
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,279
differences in the accounts in order to speak of Adam

419
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:50,240
one and Adam two. So the first account, Adam one,

420
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,200
for example, not to go not to you know, go

421
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,759
through the entirety of the text. But Adam one is

422
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,400
famously create in the image of God, right, sell him,

423
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,519
melo him, and is charged with this mission to you know,

424
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to dominate the earth, right to be threw from our

425
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,480
plight and kind of till the earth, if shure, right

426
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to kind of conquer, to dominate. The second story, and

427
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,240
the second is created from the dust of the earth,

428
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,480
and far from being told to dominate, is told to

429
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:30,039
look after the loved chenre right to till it, to

430
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,319
keep it, to guard it, to look after it. So

431
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:36,799
you know, what does Solivahik do with these two accounts.

432
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,160
So he builds up, as you say, these archetypes. Adam one.

433
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,200
Adam one's the image of God. That's got to make

434
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,480
you feel pretty good. Image of God is a majestic type.

435
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,279
Speaker 2: More than that. What's God doing right now? What is

436
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:53,480
it to be in the image of God? Well, he's creating.

437
00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: So he reads this as speaking of a type who

438
00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:02,200
is a creative type.

439
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: To be in the image of God is to be

440
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:05,079
a creative.

441
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: Type, and a creative type who's supposed to dominate, subdue

442
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:14,319
the earth, right, to in effect take control, to be

443
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:16,680
a scientist in effect?

444
00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: Right, what does science do?

445
00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:21,799
Speaker 3: Not just a scientist, could be a politician, right, but

446
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:28,319
somebody who is effectively utilizing their intellectual creativity in order

447
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,559
to conquer nature. Right, This is Adam the first. So

448
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:36,799
Adam the first is this majestic, striding, one could almost

449
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:42,400
say arrogant type. Adam the second dust of the earth. Right,

450
00:29:42,359 --> 00:29:46,279
it doesn't make you feel quite as powerful, right. And

451
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:50,759
he's not told to dominate, he's not told to subdue,

452
00:29:50,759 --> 00:29:52,839
he's told to look after it. So Adam the Second

453
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,519
is this kind of humble type, a type who is

454
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,039
asking about the mysteries of creat rather than thinking about

455
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:05,279
how to dominate it. Who's concerned with the kind of

456
00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:10,039
questions of why am I here? Right, is a lonely type.

457
00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:16,319
Adam the first is created un vaba as a community,

458
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already made community. Adam the second is lonely and has

459
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to be you know, put to sleep and has to sacrifice,

460
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,480
so to speak, a part of himself in order to

461
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:31,079
form community. This is a very different type, much more

462
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:37,319
humble type, a type who can only find genuine community

463
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,720
by some type of sacrifice and covenantal commitment, not just

464
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:46,440
through getting together with people in laboratory with shared interests.

465
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,799
So you have these two very different types, the Adam

466
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:51,960
one the Adam two, and he draws on those types

467
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,599
in order to explicate this apparent contradiction in the biblical text.

468
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:00,920
But then you go further, which is, all right, why

469
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,039
are they both there? And that's the key question, and

470
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:10,240
there could be different answers. Many people might when I

471
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:14,200
teach this often for the first time, you know, and

472
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,240
you were to people who don't know the work, and

473
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:18,480
you would ask them what's going on here? They often

474
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:21,640
think that this is a progression. Well, Adam the first

475
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,119
clearly isn't a religious type, because he's some kind of

476
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,799
utilitarian scientist. Whereas Adam the second, oh, well, he's the

477
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:33,039
religious type. Who is, you know, imbued with God. God

478
00:31:33,119 --> 00:31:36,079
breathes into Adam the second right in order to give

479
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,920
him life. But that's not what Sulivahik does with it

480
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,880
right for him. The whole point of presenting these two

481
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,440
is that every human being has within him both of

482
00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:56,519
these characteristics. Sometimes you wake up in the morning feeling

483
00:31:56,559 --> 00:31:58,880
like God Almighty, I'm the image of God and I'm grand.

484
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,359
Sometimes you're the dust of the earth. And it is

485
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:09,960
for soli Achick incredibly important that these are both cultivated.

486
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,440
If we're pure Adam one, then yes, we might well

487
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:18,720
turn into some kind of all controlling, totalitarian demon. If

488
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,519
we're only Adam two, we never get out of bed

489
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:24,359
in the morning. As in, both of these have to

490
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,119
be given expression, and what's key to our Slivachick is

491
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:36,440
that they can only come together intention. You can't just

492
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:40,160
dollop fifty percent of Adam one fifty percent of Adam two.

493
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 2: Because they're contradictory.

494
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:44,359
Speaker 3: If you feel like you're in the image of God,

495
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,039
then humility isn't really getting a looking. If you're humble,

496
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:51,200
being in the image of God doesn't really get a

497
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,079
looking As in, these two poles are intension with each other.

498
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,680
And therefore what he's doing here is he's drawing these

499
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:04,559
ideal types like cognitive sorry Adam one Adam two. Nobody's

500
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,000
a pure Adam one or a pure Adam two, but

501
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:14,839
all of us have elements of both. And therefore what

502
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,440
he's doing here is trying to exhibit these characteristics and

503
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,480
then give us a kind of evaluative takeaway, which is

504
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:28,400
that according to the Torah. And therefore, at this point

505
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,359
this is the creation narrative applicable to all human beings effectively, right,

506
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:39,119
the life of faith is actually a life of conflict

507
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,640
where we're oscillating between these two poles, and that's what

508
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,640
we ought to be doing. We should be giving expression to.

509
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:48,079
Speaker 2: Both of them.

510
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 3: Sometimes we should be the striding forward Adam one, but

511
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,720
at other times we have to admit defeat and be

512
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,559
Adam two. But being both of those is key. So

513
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,920
what he's done here is tried to through the use

514
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,280
of types. So I find it's significant about the faith experience,

515
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:13,679
something novel about most people think of faith as the

516
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,599
answer to all your problems, not for our sult of ature,

517
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,599
right that the night of faith has a kind of

518
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:29,159
tragic paradoxical existence, fighting this sort of tension within that's

519
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,000
the nature of the human personality. It is dialectical nature,

520
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,119
and he's using his types in order to draw out

521
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:38,880
that point.

522
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,639
Speaker 1: So there's there's a lot there. Let me let me

523
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,679
drill down on another architecrature you said you won once

524
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,480
image later, which, of course halakk Man, which is the

525
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,800
subject of his probably his most I don't know it's

526
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,440
his most read book, but it's certainly a book that

527
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:57,239
those who take Jews philosophy of the twentieth century seriously find,

528
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,360
as you know, perhaps his most philosophically dense work. There's also,

529
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:05,039
you know, a Jewish work. At the same time, What

530
00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:07,599
is he trying to do there? It's a question that

531
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:13,679
actually it's a more difficult question to answer them would

532
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,039
otherwise appear and maybe people read the book, but you know,

533
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,239
he presents this archetype of the Halaric man. Is he

534
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,920
trying to say that everyone ought to strive to be?

535
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,800
That is that ideal that is being held up? Is

536
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,800
it simply a description of what a likely you know,

537
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,800
observant individual ought to be doing. And you know, because

538
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,159
that that is an ideal type that doesn't quite seem

539
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:36,840
to conform with how you've described the ideal types until now.

540
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,880
This is something something quite different and also seems to

541
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,280
have a certain element of perhaps autobiography within it. I mean,

542
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,719
is he trying to describe what he's doing himself? So

543
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,320
you know what is going on there? Yeah?

544
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's interesting. So I do think that you're

545
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,480
right there is there is a distinction between the type

546
00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:00,719
that is halaric man and the type that is lonely

547
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,159
man of faith. And I think many people maybe miss

548
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,559
this not so much kind of nowadays. I think, you know,

549
00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:11,880
people have now cottoned onto this. But I think it's

550
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,960
the very first footnote where he talks about halaric man

551
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,920
as an ideal type. There is no such thing right

552
00:36:18,079 --> 00:36:21,039
in reality. Now, now what does that mean and what

553
00:36:21,199 --> 00:36:24,559
therefore is he doing? So the book is trying to

554
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:30,119
set up this type, this ideal type of halaric man. Again,

555
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,079
he does so by beginning with two other types who

556
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,599
in combination will become the halaric man, much like Adam

557
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:43,239
one Adam two together create the lonely man of faith.

558
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:46,400
I should have said, by the way, the lonely man

559
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,920
of faith is lonely because he's not at home in

560
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:52,480
either community. He's not at home as Adam one. He's

561
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,679
not at home as Adam too. When he's Adam one,

562
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,880
Adam two is calling him. When he's Adam to Adam

563
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,360
one is calling him. Therefore, he's always lonely, has a

564
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,760
kind of stasis a home. But to come back to

565
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:11,400
to palak Man the two types that he describes at

566
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,000
the beginning of the book. He starts with cognitive man,

567
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,119
you know, the scientific type. A cognitive man is concerned

568
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,639
with this world and concerned to understand the world in

569
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,920
terms of scientific law, which he creates based on the data.

570
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:33,480
There's a lot of overlap with Adam one. He's a creative,

571
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:40,960
intellectual type who manages two understand the world by subjecting

572
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,239
it to scientific analysis, understanding the principles and the laws

573
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,679
that underlie it. That's the cognitive man. The other type,

574
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,119
with which he begins with Homo religiosis, is a very

575
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:57,840
otherworldly type. The fact that the world works scientifically is

576
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,960
just the beginning of the mystery for him. He's intrigued

577
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,239
by the mystery of existence. It's all very well, but

578
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,360
why am I here? What's the point? Right sees this

579
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,400
world as a peal limitation of the true world that

580
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:15,280
transcends our reality and where holiness resides. Right, So the

581
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,119
very religious type. What's interesting about Alaric Man is that

582
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:25,559
Halachic Man for Arsillavat is a combination of the two,

583
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:32,079
though notably is much more cognitive man than homo religiosis.

584
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,079
Homo religiosis in some senses is the villain of the piece,

585
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:40,400
certainly in the second part of the book. Now, why

586
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,519
is halak Man so much cognitive man. Well, Halachic Man,

587
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:53,880
for him is somebody who treats the data of the

588
00:38:53,960 --> 00:39:00,519
Halaric texts the same way that cognitive man treats data

589
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:05,679
of natural world, by subjecting it, by effectively doing the

590
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:10,199
brisker thing, right, by imposing a conceptual scheme, by being

591
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,760
a creative intellectual, a kind of scientist of the bait midrush,

592
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:19,920
so to speak, who you know creates these as Rossloh

593
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:23,239
speaks in terms of a priori concepts, right, So coming

594
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:29,960
up with the conceptual understanding of the material in order

595
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,239
to delight in this wonderful theoretical construct that is that

596
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,199
the fruits of tom would study in the brisker mode.

597
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,280
So he's very much an analogue to and this is

598
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,000
stated explicitly by Rassalovh the kind of mathematical scientist. That's

599
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:53,559
what the halachik man does. However, at the same time,

600
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:57,679
he's doing it with holy material, right, He's not doing

601
00:39:57,679 --> 00:40:01,360
it with the natural world. He's doing it with the

602
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,920
texts both, you know, whether he's doing it with the

603
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,800
Talmudik texts or frankly, whether he's doing it by understanding

604
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,440
the world through a halachic prism. So there's the intellectual

605
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,719
piece of it that I just mentioned in terms of

606
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,760
understanding in the bake Madrash. There's also the way that

607
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,159
he views the natural world. Right, when he sees a sunset,

608
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:27,039
it's time to pray, as in understanding the world through

609
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:33,679
the prism of these so to speak, halachic spectacles. Right,

610
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:39,920
So this is halachic man. So he combines cognitive man

611
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:47,079
with the Homer religiosis by doing everything cognitive man does,

612
00:40:48,119 --> 00:40:53,920
but with religious material rather than natural material. So the

613
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,239
point being that cognitive man is a this worldly type.

614
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Religiosis is another worldly type. Halachic man is a deeply

615
00:41:04,559 --> 00:41:08,679
this worldly type. His halachic man has no interest in

616
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,280
the in the next world, in other worlds, in transcending existence.

617
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:19,039
His interest is in this world and in enacting holiness

618
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:23,440
in this world. So he's almost exclusively a cognitive man.

619
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: But.

620
00:41:25,159 --> 00:41:30,039
Speaker 3: And it's obviously a key, but a religious cognitive man.

621
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:34,039
He's doing this with religious divine material.

622
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 1: This is all very well, and this is an excellent description,

623
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,280
but it still leaves the reader. And this is the

624
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,280
curious thing about this book. It leaves the reader wonry

625
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,679
is describing what the reader ought to be doing?

626
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:47,599
Speaker 2: Right?

627
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: Or? Yeah? So is this normative? Is a prescriptive? This

628
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,159
is what does things about this book? It goes This

629
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:58,039
is very detailed, almost psychoanalysis almost of what this what

630
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:01,840
this figure is halackic man? Where iss come from? And

631
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,559
what is he applying? And how does he do this?

632
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:06,239
And then sort of and as I said to what

633
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,400
it's a description of that like is this supposed to

634
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,840
be a lighthouse for how the religious individual in the

635
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,960
twentieth to twenty first century is supposed to behave or think?

636
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,079
Or is this a description of how people used to

637
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:21,320
make right? What is he recommending here? Yeah?

638
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 3: No, it's a very good question. It's a very important question.

639
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,039
I guess my one word answer is no, right, he

640
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:32,639
is not describing any actual individual. And it's not prescriptive.

641
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,960
This is and this goes back to that initial point.

642
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:41,000
This is an ideal type. Now what does that mean here?

643
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,920
So again let me buy analogy. So this is an

644
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,119
ideal type. There is no such person. And I mean

645
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:50,440
the following. If people are listening to this, you who

646
00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:53,880
you know, have no idea who I am. But they

647
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,119
now know that Daniel Einhold is a Jewish philosopher. Now

648
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,920
I'm also I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a

649
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,159
beetle maniac. Yeah right, so all kinds of things that

650
00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:08,880
are true of me in my work life, I am

651
00:43:09,039 --> 00:43:14,880
expressing my philosophic man elements, shall we say, But I'm

652
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,639
not and no one is the pure ideal philosophic man. Right,

653
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:20,760
everybody's got to go out by food, you know, budget,

654
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,719
pay the bills. We're fully fleshed out human beings. Halachic

655
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:31,480
man is if you like, siphoning off the theoretician of

656
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:34,039
the bait mid rush. And it's important he's not a rabbi,

657
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,039
right that the joke you make hell like man never

658
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:40,480
Puskin's a shila, right, He's not your pulpit Rabbi Hall

659
00:43:40,639 --> 00:43:43,960
like man is the scientist in the Bait mid Rush.

660
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:49,840
He is the theoretician working in order to understand the

661
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,079
halarchic material and of course enacting it right, seeing the

662
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:57,639
world that way. But primarily what he's doing here is

663
00:43:58,599 --> 00:44:03,719
building out into a whole personality, what is in truth

664
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:10,880
a part of certain people, like for example, his father

665
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,079
and grandfather were they halahik men? Well yeah, but they

666
00:44:14,119 --> 00:44:16,599
also played with the grandchildren, so not all the time.

667
00:44:16,679 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: Right.

668
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 3: That's the idea of being an ideal type. It's an

669
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,679
idealization of a segment. And what it's therefore talking about

670
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:31,840
is and talking about certain characteristics and values that accrue

671
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,920
to that endeavor of the religious type. Right, So when

672
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,440
somebody is in the Bake Midrush and they are doing that, right,

673
00:44:40,559 --> 00:44:42,960
what he's doing in this work is trying to describe

674
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,519
that type in again in a somewhat revolutionary way. Most

675
00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:49,840
people would see the rabbi in the Bake Midrush who

676
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:56,559
is studying Talmud as some you know, extremely passive, asthetic,

677
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:06,320
submissive type, not as some creative, this worldly intellectual as

678
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,079
portrayed by Rasolovacik. So on the one hand, he you know,

679
00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:15,920
he is portraying a key element, let's say, of his

680
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,480
ancestors and of him, right, kind of. Obviously he did

681
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,440
a lot of this as well, and doing so in

682
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:28,400
a manner that highlights aspects of that experience that he

683
00:45:28,679 --> 00:45:35,920
feels have been misunderstood, maybe ignored, maybe not always true, right,

684
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,679
kind of. Not everybody always did this with the Tolman

685
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,320
this is the Brisker revolution again. But that's what kind

686
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,559
of he's trying to do here, So a like man's

687
00:45:44,639 --> 00:45:49,280
idealized type. But it allows us to crystallize aspects of

688
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,320
that element of our experience.

689
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: Right.

690
00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 3: It's not everybody has to be a like man. It's

691
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,480
that those who are you know, involved in this endeavor.

692
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:02,920
These are the kinds of characteristics of it at its

693
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:08,079
best and how it expresses one's judaic faith.

694
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: Interesting, I'd like to turn to an aspect of Ramislova

695
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,239
that you mentioned earlier, which is is sort of how

696
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,000
someone say existential turn, and that is present throughout much

697
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,840
of his writing, especially as you correctly said, his later writings,

698
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:28,039
and of course you wrote a book throwing him into

699
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:31,000
conversation with one of the great existentialists of the nineteenth century,

700
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:33,320
or at least someone who's you know, associated with the

701
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,079
existential school, let's say, which a free drug nature the

702
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:39,920
German philosopher of the late nineteenth century. And so let

703
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,599
me ask, I mean, firstly, what do you mean when

704
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,800
you say that rabbisolovtric had an existentialist turn? And secondly,

705
00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:48,719
you know, to what extent could he be said to

706
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,079
be part of the broader world of extensions? Lastly, because

707
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:53,920
of course most of those who were, well at least okay,

708
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,119
I take that back, some of those associated with that

709
00:46:57,199 --> 00:47:00,679
school were not exactly religious. I mean famously, certainly it

710
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,599
was not. Camu certainly was not, and sub suddenly was not.

711
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,920
So there's there's no shortage of those who you know,

712
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,559
who are not exactly the rabbinic type who existentially So

713
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,880
what do you mean when you say Rabisloc was a

714
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,400
religious extend existentialist? And how does that manifest itself in

715
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,039
his writings? Right?

716
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 3: So, I mean you begin to see in the description

717
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,039
I gave even a lonely man of faith, where he's

718
00:47:26,079 --> 00:47:30,480
talking about this this tragic existence, right, this conflicted existence.

719
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,440
So he's talking there about grappling with the kind of

720
00:47:34,519 --> 00:47:38,360
existential problems rather than the kind of things he's talking

721
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,960
about in halahk Man where we're talking about you know,

722
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:44,760
creative a priori systems of Halaha. So you see a

723
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,960
shift immediately in just the very tenor of what's interesting

724
00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:52,239
him and what he's putting out there. But in terms

725
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,199
of in terms of the you know Niature, I guess

726
00:47:55,199 --> 00:48:02,119
as a proto existentialist the the way, well, let me

727
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:08,000
I guess begin autobiographically. I'd read solo Achik before I

728
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:12,840
did a philosophy degree, and in my third year doing philosophy,

729
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,239
I took a course on Nietzsche, expecting it to be

730
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,760
my little rebellion right, studying the great atheist for whom

731
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,440
God was dead, and you know, thinking that it would

732
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:28,320
be deeply challenging. Instead, what I found on reading Nietzsche

733
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:31,760
is that it all seemed pretty familiar to me, because

734
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,760
it seemed to be highly reminiscent of things i'd read

735
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,320
in rosolo Achik. And what I mean by that is

736
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:47,000
Nietzsche obviously an atheist, and Roslovchik has no part of that.

737
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,159
But Nietzsche's main critique of religion has little to do

738
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,519
with whether or not God exists, and much more to

739
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:59,199
do with his view that religion has as he puts it,

740
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:02,920
it debates, is the concept of man that, as far

741
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:08,239
as he's concerned, religion is a psychologically damaging, life denying

742
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,280
illusion that acts as a crutch for people too weak

743
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,079
to deal with the terrible truth, which is life is

744
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:18,800
really hard and inescapably. So, so what do we do

745
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:24,000
with that as a religious people? According to nietzsure, let's

746
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:27,519
wide a bad things happen to good people. Okay, Well,

747
00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:30,280
religion answers because you're not good, right, You're a sinner,

748
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:34,719
and a main sort of source of your sin is

749
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,559
your very humanity. You're led by passions and desires. These

750
00:49:39,679 --> 00:49:42,480
evil must be cut off. You should be an extreme asthetic.

751
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:46,320
In order to repent for that, we have to wallow

752
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,039
in an orgy of guilt and self torture. That's what

753
00:49:49,159 --> 00:49:53,440
repentance is. And we attempt in doing this to bring

754
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,719
a chaotic world in some way under our control, at

755
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,519
least through being able to understand and blame it. Right,

756
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:04,280
Suffering isn't the problem. It's not having an explanation for

757
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,440
it that nietzschre thinks is really what bothers us. So

758
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:11,480
we create what for him as this illusory metaphysical crutch

759
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,320
for the weakening insipid encourages passivity, denial of this world

760
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,159
because everything good and great is in another world, you know,

761
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,800
pathological self hatred for how lousy we are given our humanity,

762
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:30,840
and for niatsure God is a gross answer to those questions. Right,

763
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,800
and more than that, kind of what he sees us

764
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,840
admiring as god like is actually an error, a crime

765
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:43,320
against life. As he puts it right, it denigrates this life. Now,

766
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:48,159
the point for me and my co author Michael J.

767
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 2: Harris is that.

768
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 3: We, in reading Solivachik, felt that actually Solivachi agreed with him,

769
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,440
which is not to say a obviously that he's an

770
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,840
atheist or he thought religion is an illusion for the week.

771
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:08,559
But the point is that Soliveachik is critical of precisely

772
00:51:08,599 --> 00:51:12,840
the form of religion that nietzsure despises, and creates an

773
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:17,719
interpretation of Judaism that instead does all the thing nietzschre

774
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,559
likes right, go back to a lachk man. He like

775
00:51:21,639 --> 00:51:25,480
man is a this worldly He has no interest in

776
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:31,039
transcendent worlds afterlife. That doesn't factor in to his religious

777
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:34,800
life whatsoever. He is a this worldly type. It's all

778
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,599
about what we do in the here and now right

779
00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:42,039
repentance for our Solivacik famously he speaks a great length

780
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:44,920
about repentance, you know, throughout his life, and gave these

781
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:49,760
annual repentance she are in, many of which have since

782
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:55,199
kind of been published. Repentance for him is not about

783
00:51:55,639 --> 00:52:01,880
self flagellation. It's not about torturing yourself for your irredeemable

784
00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:04,760
sins that are in the past and can't be changed.

785
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: Right.

786
00:52:06,119 --> 00:52:09,599
Speaker 3: He actually states explicitly in Halachic Man, it is impossible

787
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:13,320
to regret a pass that's already dead. Right, you can't

788
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,800
all make a decision concerning a future as yet unborn.

789
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:21,039
And he writes this himself. Therefore, Spinosa and Nietzsche, from

790
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:25,440
this perspective, did well to deride the idea of repentance.

791
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:31,679
He also hates their version of repentance. His point is,

792
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,000
Halachic repentance, the repentant Alakic man.

793
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:35,639
Speaker 2: Is nothing like that.

794
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 3: It's actually a psychological transformation to do with creating a

795
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:47,679
new self. It is a creative affirmative, not a backwards

796
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:55,159
looking life denying practice. So Rasolovachik, and this is something

797
00:52:55,199 --> 00:53:00,000
we find throughout his thought. We argue that he ultimately

798
00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:07,400
agrees with Nietzsche if they are talking about the same

799
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:11,519
form of religion, the religion that Nietzscha is criticizing. So

800
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:15,079
does russll of Achik right, not as stridently He's willing

801
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:19,199
to allow people right, but it's absolutely not his version.

802
00:53:19,639 --> 00:53:24,800
His version he makes, you know, very definite choices. Particularly again,

803
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,159
repentance is a very very good example, because he, you know,

804
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,920
actually is highly critical of the kind of traditional views

805
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,519
of repentance you find in medieval works like Sharrey, like

806
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:40,559
the Gates of Repentance of raben U Yana, extremely critical

807
00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:45,840
and gives us instead this deeply life affirming version of

808
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,880
repentance more than that. And this is if you're looking

809
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,199
for a key theme of russal of Hik's work, you know,

810
00:53:55,239 --> 00:53:59,119
this is certainly one of them. The idea that religion

811
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:01,840
is some kind of like we say, crutch for the

812
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:08,800
weak and insipid is anathema to Solivah. He famously believes

813
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,400
that religious consciousness that the most elevated form of it. Famously,

814
00:54:14,639 --> 00:54:18,239
the fourth footnote of Halachic Man that everybody quotes, he

815
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,840
says that, you know, if you think that religion is

816
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,760
some oasis of calm that will solve all your problems.

817
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:31,079
That is a falseome pernicious view of religion. Instead, for him,

818
00:54:31,639 --> 00:54:36,679
it's complex, it's tortuous, it's antinomic and antithetic, as he

819
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:44,519
famously says, it's an experience that is deeply challenging. It's

820
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:48,440
not an answer to all your questions. It's maybe a

821
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:53,440
way of living with them, coping. It's definitely not an answer.

822
00:54:53,440 --> 00:55:02,440
And therefore, again what Soli refuses to do use religion

823
00:55:03,199 --> 00:55:08,079
as a way of escaping the reality and denying the

824
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:12,400
terrible truth about existence. And that's exactly what Nietzsche's looking for.

825
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,719
He wants us to maintain that enigma of existence and

826
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,679
not try and cover it up with what he used

827
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:21,440
to call a kind of gaudy paint job, right that

828
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:24,199
just you know, pretends that eye it's all works out,

829
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,960
whether that working out is religious or even scientific.

830
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,159
Speaker 1: So, firstly, absolutely, that is a very curious and interesting

831
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:36,559
parallel between nature and Salivator. I would when I ask

832
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:40,079
existential I have to state the following, which is that

833
00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:43,639
there's something odd and different about Ramo Salvation's risings, which

834
00:55:43,679 --> 00:55:46,239
is that he seems in a certain way distinctly uncomfortable

835
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,719
in his own skin, if that's fair to say, No

836
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,719
one is. There's something about his life that is throwing

837
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,519
him off and making him, you know, discombobulated in the

838
00:55:56,519 --> 00:55:59,360
deepest possible sense, and which is again just very, very

839
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,119
odd for an Orthodox Jewish thinker. I mean, most of them,

840
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:08,039
most of most of even address the internal displacement of

841
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:09,760
the personal psyche. So it's just not it's not a

842
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,840
category they're thinking, it's not a it's not what they

843
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,239
see as a legitimate, you know, avenue of inquiry. Whereas

844
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,159
for Amazon of ag he's numerous times and as you mentioned,

845
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,199
I think man only man a favor of the famous footnote,

846
00:56:22,199 --> 00:56:24,920
et cetera. Many different places he seems to vent his

847
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:30,320
personal you know, a lack of at homewardness in this world,

848
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,320
you know, you know, for lack of better term. Yeah,

849
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,000
and again I just wonder, am I correct in thinking

850
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:40,880
of this is just exceedingly unusual. Where does he get

851
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,440
it from?

852
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:46,599
Speaker 3: I look, I think it is particularly in the Orthodox world.

853
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:51,639
I think it's very unusual. I think two things. By

854
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:56,760
the way, he knew this right, and he often spoke

855
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,719
about it. There's a wonderful remark that he makes at

856
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,000
the workswhile School of Social Work at Yeshua University in

857
00:57:05,039 --> 00:57:08,480
nineteen seventy four. He says this, and he's talking about

858
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,440
his own students, and he's saying, look, they think I'm

859
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:17,320
wonderful when it comes to my lundus, right, so my

860
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:22,840
traditional learning in told they absolutely enthralled to me. But

861
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:25,880
he says, and well quote directly, when it comes to

862
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:31,039
my philosophical experiential viewpoint, I am somehow persona non grata.

863
00:57:31,559 --> 00:57:34,519
My ideas are too radical for them. If they could

864
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:37,800
find another one, he goes on, it would be all right. However,

865
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,880
the substitutions are completely infantile. Right, this is a tremendous

866
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,519
problem in America, he goes on, and he puts extremism,

867
00:57:46,599 --> 00:57:51,519
fanaticism down to that, to a lack of security, and yeah,

868
00:57:51,639 --> 00:57:55,719
he says that just there's a religious immaturity, right. He

869
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,840
talks about kind of people of thirty and forty. They

870
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,239
act like children and experienced religion like children, even though

871
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:05,639
they're you know, very they're not stupid people. So he

872
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:13,400
is aware that his conception of faith as this much

873
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:22,519
more complex, you know, dialectical type of experience doesn't sit

874
00:58:22,679 --> 00:58:27,119
comfortably with many of his co religious, co orthodox religionalist

875
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,719
religionists in particular, So he definitely is aware of that,

876
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,159
and it is fair to say that this is why,

877
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,679
you know, many of his own students at the, if

878
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:45,840
you like, practical rumintic level, are not necessarily students of

879
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:52,480
his at the philosophical level. And whether or not that's

880
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:56,800
a case of feeling uncomfortable in your own skin, I

881
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:02,000
think that comes down to one's religious stability. And this

882
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:06,039
is more I guess me speaking on how I view

883
00:59:06,119 --> 00:59:10,239
Rasslo chic than you know his thought itself. But you

884
00:59:10,239 --> 00:59:17,960
know I do for many people the idea that religion

885
00:59:18,039 --> 00:59:21,039
doesn't have all the answers more than that. But I

886
00:59:21,079 --> 00:59:24,159
can't even prove it's true. Right, Russell of A doesn't

887
00:59:24,159 --> 00:59:26,679
think you can prove that Judaism is the best religion.

888
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:31,000
He absolutely believes it, but he knows he cannot prove

889
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:35,880
it to anyone other than a Jew. Right, Because you know,

890
00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:39,840
different religions, coming back to the pluralism with which we began,

891
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:45,159
you know, start from a different data set and therefore

892
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,480
produce different concepts and principles out of that data set

893
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:52,320
that are very convincing if you're starting with that data set.

894
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,719
But if not right, then you're not. So he doesn't

895
00:59:55,719 --> 01:00:02,119
believe one second you can even demonstrate this superiority of Judaism, right,

896
01:00:02,199 --> 01:00:04,559
does he have faith that it's the truth one hundred percent?

897
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,760
It's just not something you can philosophically talk about. So, yeah,

898
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,360
there's a discomfort there. But for some people that's very

899
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:19,360
threatening and troubling. I think for other people it's actually

900
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,880
a comfort because if you don't think if you're a

901
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,280
religious person who's very let's say an Orthodox Jew, and

902
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:31,199
you're very, very happy living your Orthodox Jewish life, but

903
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,960
at the same time you have real questions in terms

904
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,280
of the problem of evil and whatever, it might be

905
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,400
the view that well, it's okay, God works. If so,

906
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,440
there's an answer and God God did it to you

907
01:00:42,519 --> 01:00:46,760
or whatever put certain people off religion, right. They would

908
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:48,960
prefer the no, no, you know, that's that's that's not

909
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,719
what it's about. Right. I don't I don't need that

910
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,480
version of God. Indeed, that version of God I would

911
01:00:55,519 --> 01:00:56,719
feel deeply off putting.

912
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:57,599
Speaker 2: Right.

913
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: Dewey Phillips famously said, it's bad enough of a child

914
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,119
God forbid is suffering from fretful cancer. To think that

915
01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:05,440
God did it to them on purpose makes it even worse.

916
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:09,320
So if you're kind of, you know, pulling back from

917
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:13,360
that idea that religion has to have all the answers

918
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,440
for some people, that's actually comforting. And that's why therefore,

919
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,079
the the kind of the emphasis on on the this

920
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,599
worldly life of Judaism, how it can be you know,

921
01:01:24,719 --> 01:01:28,719
seen as an expression of your you know, of your

922
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:33,199
innermost experience as he experiences halacha, right, the life him

923
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,039
isn't some kind of imposition, it kind of it's his

924
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:40,760
expressing his innermost being. That's how he experiences it. That's

925
01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:45,920
sufficient for the celebration of the religious life.

926
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,519
Speaker 1: I hear that, and that's definitely a valuable for So

927
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,320
I just want to ask, you know, do you think

928
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,840
that therefore there's limits maybe the potential reach of a

929
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,559
thinker like rs of age. And you get this with

930
01:01:56,599 --> 01:01:58,360
a lot of philosophy and philosophers in general, both in

931
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,639
the Jewish religion and more generally, which is that you know,

932
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,960
they come't at problems from a very certain perspective, which

933
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,639
speaks volumes about their own personality. And if you are

934
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:10,239
so inclined to that particular personality, traits, so then you

935
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,000
find their philosophy extremely interesting, extremely compelling, et cetera, et cetera.

936
01:02:13,639 --> 01:02:15,360
But for those who don't, then that's just not the case.

937
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:17,760
And I'm wondering if a certain case can be because

938
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,960
of course Rosavegic is enormously influential in certain areas of

939
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:26,199
Jewish you know, Jewis communities nowadays, and even outside of

940
01:02:26,239 --> 01:02:28,880
those communities read and started to get great interest. And

941
01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:31,920
I'm just wondering, you know, must one be of a

942
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,400
certain personality disposition, as we've been describing for the last

943
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,840
you know, fifteen twenty minutes, must have those kinds of

944
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,840
personality dispositions in order to find his works interesting and useful.

945
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,559
I mean, what if you're just generally happy or satisfied.

946
01:02:44,679 --> 01:02:46,559
What if you you know, what if the religious world

947
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:48,880
just naturally makes sense to you? I mean, is reslavgi

948
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:49,519
gend just not for you?

949
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:56,679
Speaker 2: It's a good question.

950
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:02,199
Speaker 3: I suppose that it depends on your level of intellectual

951
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:08,480
curiosity have in you know, it's one could say the

952
01:03:08,519 --> 01:03:11,079
same about my monogies. Let's put it that way, right

953
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,360
as in, you know, you read mymologies and some people

954
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:17,519
we'd extremely put off by the extreme rationalism, but we'll

955
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:22,320
still find it fascinating to you know, understand the world

956
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:29,119
view of somebody who can apply that type of philosophical

957
01:03:29,199 --> 01:03:32,800
theology to the life of Halachic Judaism.

958
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:33,559
Speaker 1: Right.

959
01:03:33,719 --> 01:03:39,519
Speaker 3: So, I think that it's certainly the case that there

960
01:03:39,559 --> 01:03:44,559
are people who will and will not find this personally compelling.

961
01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:51,400
I'm not sure that's different for any other thinker of.

962
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:52,119
Speaker 2: This ilk.

963
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 3: And and you know, and for some people when they

964
01:03:56,519 --> 01:03:58,880
do read it, they'll suddenly eyes are opened and they're like, wow,

965
01:03:59,639 --> 01:04:02,880
you know, do find it convincing, and do find it,

966
01:04:04,119 --> 01:04:08,360
you know, compelling, But yeah, plenty not. But on that

967
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,920
I like I say, I'm not sure he differs that

968
01:04:11,079 --> 01:04:13,679
much from other thinkers in this arena.

969
01:04:14,639 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fer enough. I think that's satisfactory answering. Okay,

970
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:20,880
we'll let you go in a moment. But the last

971
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:22,239
thing I would like to ask you, and it's something

972
01:04:22,239 --> 01:04:25,840
I'll ast asked him many of my guests, is if

973
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,360
you had the opportunity to speak with Sullivtuk, if you

974
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,960
could sit down this evening with him to dinner, Let's say,

975
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,599
what would you would you be asking him? What would

976
01:04:33,599 --> 01:04:35,679
you want to know? What kind of subjects. Would you

977
01:04:35,679 --> 01:04:37,960
be broaching with him?

978
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: Oh? Goodness me.

979
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:47,039
Speaker 3: Who? So I think I probably a boring academic answer

980
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,719
a question I should say, because people have grappled long

981
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:59,079
and hard with the apparent discrepancy between To go back

982
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:02,880
to our types, halachic man and lonely man of faith,

983
01:05:03,559 --> 01:05:07,280
alack man doesn't seem to be a terribly conflicted individual

984
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,440
unlike lonely man of faith, and scholars have tried to

985
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:17,719
understand that difference in various ways. So yes, I think

986
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:23,840
that getting his actual answer to that would be of interest.

987
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: Well, well, then let me ask you some question. Do

988
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:34,119
you think it will be an enjoyable experience? Then the

989
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:39,119
reputation for being, shall we say, not the easiest person

990
01:05:39,159 --> 01:05:43,400
to talk to, talk with? You know, what it would

991
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:44,599
be like to have dinner with him?

992
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:49,199
Speaker 3: So certainly there are many, you know, stories from students

993
01:05:49,239 --> 01:05:52,880
in his you know Tom share that that certainly would

994
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,599
lead to the conclusion he did not suffer fools gladly

995
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:01,800
althose who were ill prepared for his classes. But yeah,

996
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:07,360
I think that I would approach it with great trepidation,

997
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,719
but I would hope that we would find common ground

998
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:12,320
to speak of.

999
01:06:14,599 --> 01:06:17,760
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Okay, I suppose that I'll have to do.

1000
01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:21,199
Professor Daniel Reinhold, thank you so very much. But Johnny

1001
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:23,199
us today on the Podcast of Jewish Ideas. This has

1002
01:06:23,239 --> 01:06:25,559
been a most enlightening conversation. We are very grateful for

1003
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:27,920
your time and we look forward to seeing what you

1004
01:06:28,039 --> 01:06:30,239
have to published soon in the near future.

1005
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:33,199
Speaker 2: My great pleasure. Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.

1006
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,199
Speaker 1: This has been the Podcast of Jewish Ideas by Tora

1007
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:41,559
in Motion, produced by Alisha Kellman and myself jjkimb, edited

1008
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:44,000
and mixed by Alisha Kelman. You can stay up to

1009
01:06:44,079 --> 01:06:46,880
date by subscribing in your favorite podcast app. To support

1010
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,559
more thoughtful Jewish content like this, please visit torre in

1011
01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:51,440
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