Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified man, fabulous
co host himself, mister Grant Hughes. No small talk. Really,
we were here or we are here, we are gathered
here today. That's gonna be my new thing. Grant A
Bleacher Report asked us if we could come up with
every NBA teams Mount Rushmore since two thousand, So we're
dealing with just two thousand and there are a few
franchises that really need to keep that in mind. What
are we doing it since? Grant?
Speaker 2: Uh, nineteen two thousand. That's two thousand and thank god,
by the way, because it's impossible.
Speaker 1: Otherwise, I advocated for doing every team's Mount Rushmore since
twenty twenty. That apparently just wasn't. So what are some
of the things you put into when you were building
the mount? Grant did the West, I did the East.
We did not have a say in who each other selected,
which also makes this fun, so we'll get to respond
and react in real time. What types of things did
you think about as you were building each team's Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 2: I think there's just a handful of pretty sort of
inarguable criteria. One is just you know, like player success
and accolades, Like if a guy we'll talk about plenty
of guys like multiple MVPs, you're just gonna be on
the Mount Rushmore like and Kauz odds are that coincided
with like some high level of team success. Also a
pretty big one for me, like if you were involved
in a big way and maybe maybe this fran maybe
Franchise X had like a good run this century, and
if if you were involved in that really good shot,
that's going to get you on the Mount Rushmore. Also
vibes there's a couple of guys I threw in here
that like on individual merit just shouldn't be here. But
it's like I'm trying to put myself in the position
of that team's fan base, and it's like we'll talk
to him when we talk about them, when we get
to them, But it's I kind of just had a
feeling of like this guy feels like he needs to
be on the Mount Rushmore, even if there's no statistical
case in a lot of situations similarity for you or
anything else missed.
Speaker 1: I don't know how many vibes guys I have like
pure just vibes got where it's a Eudonnis HASLM for
the Miami, he would be mostly a Vibes guy. Yeah.
What I did wait a lot of the time, though,
especially if the selections were rather how do I put
this kindly sparse or hollow? Was if they just did
something it was, oh, they made an All NBA team
and they were only there for two seasons. You know
what you made it if, like if the other options
I thought were that league, so I did. I think
I might have waited the individual or team accolades more
so than you did, where it's like maybe you don't
associate this player as much. But that's what makes this
fun is that it's entirely subjective. And honestly, it's almost
easier to do this if you factor in all time,
because which we did not is just since what.
Speaker 2: Is it, uh two thousand? I think you said to.
Speaker 1: Two thousand, it's because there's so many defaults when you're
doing it all time. It actually would have been easier,
I think had we done it that way, but we
weren't asked to do it that way, so we did not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, last thing. The other thing that I did
think about and this made for some tough decisions. Is like,
all things being equal, I'm gonna need the player to
be most associated with this team, assuming they played on more,
you know, several where it's like maybe this wasn't his
absolute apex. Ideally it was, and it was like a
long enough stretch, but I like for the mount Rushmore
to to to be populated by players who when you
think of them, you like think of them in this
jersey for example, and like that gets really tricky for
some of mine. But that was the last thing I
wanted to add.
Speaker 1: Was and the other last thing I would have, But
I think it dovetails with what you just said. Was
that sort of a because I needed to come up
with a determining factor for teams that actually had deeper
options where there's like, oh it could be six or
seven dudes. I think I looked at, well, who did
I think have the highest individual peak at that point,
if like they were similar team accolades and things like that.
That ended up being a determining factor for me in
certain instances. Okay, are we ready to get started?
Speaker 2: No time like the present.
Speaker 1: We are allegedly going to go alphabetically. Let's see let's
see how we do. We begin with the Atlanta Hawks.
So I have these listed alphabetically. We did not rank
any of these four teams like within these four players
in the tier the Atlanta Hawks, Al Horford, Joe Johnson,
Paul Millsap, and Trey Young. Al Horford just like I
think he could have made the Celtics want if he
really wanted to. He was just part of like some
of the most menacing Hawks teams out there. Did everything.
Was he a center? Was he a power forward? Do
you remember that debate? Loved it? Joe Johnson got buckets
for the Hawks. Trey Young already just leads the franchise
and assists. I know he's become a divisive figure, but
since like this quarter century or so, he clearly needs
to be in here for me, I struggled with the
fourth spot. I ended up giving it to Paul Millsap.
I thought a lot about Josh Smith. He comes up
in all these statistical searches, but none of them are
like there's a lot of counting stats, but it's not
like afficient. They're not affiicient counting stats. And he was
always people thought about his untapped potential. The Hawks didn't
experience a ton of success with him, So with Paul
Millsap to where it's like those he was I think
the better, more valuable player on teams that were just
frankly better overall. And so for the Hawks al Joe Johnson,
Paul Millsap and mister treat Yell.
Speaker 2: I think that's right, Josh Smith was the only one,
well to one other option. You could have just gone
Jeff Tigue, Kyle Korver, Jamari Carroll, Millsap, and Horford and
just put that incredible, just make a rule that you
could have five, uh, just for that one really great
Hawks team. Smith I think is the right guy to exclude, though,
because like the first my first thought was like kind
of empty numbers, and also they just didn't win very
much when he was like a key figure there. So
I have no notes on this one. I think you
got it right, not that we're not that we're you
gotta you get an a minus. I'm still in grading mindset.
Speaker 1: The Boston Celtics were quite a bit tougher. I ended
up settling on John Brown, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and
Jason Tatum. I do think three of these guys are
absolute locks. When you look at KG the stuff he
did defensively won a title while being like showing between
their second and third option on offense. Paul Pierce the
truth huge for that team. Just He's he's more synonymous
with the Celtics right now than a Jason Tatum when
you're looking at Justin's two thousand. Jason Tatum did not
win finals MVP, but was the best player on a
championship team while being so young. That's actually kind of insane.
I didn't know what to do with the last spot.
The names I considered were Rajon Rondo, who you know
he's tough because his peak was actually pretty high and
it lasted longer than you think. It's just it's kind
of conflated against everything else that kind of happened, like
when this Celtics team was stripped apart. I also considered
ray Allen al Horford deserves an honorable mention. Still, if
it had Jason Tatum ever get injured, he's probably still there.
Quite frankly, I ended up going with Jalen Brown. I
think that's the when I look at the individual player,
he did win a finals MVP two, so that he
has to count for something too, So I just view
his peak like from an individual perspective as a scorer
and as a defender, better than anything Rondo specifically did
when he was known for his defense and his passing.
But I do think if you were gonna go, I'm
curious what your thoughts would be here. If you're gonna
go with someone else, I think it probably, but we
has to be Rondo.
Speaker 2: It's hard. I mean, I think it's it's ray Allen
jumps out. I just I think you got it right.
I'll start with that, just because this team has I
think just the two titles this century, and you've got
the two most important players from both of those. So
it's just like you know, Tatum Brown Brown, the finals
MVP is gonna be one of those where like we
it'll be like the Iguadala Finals MVP where it's like, yeah,
but I think we know, like Tatum just mattered more. Still,
it's fine that he got it, like Curry mattered more,
Egodala got it.
Speaker 1: It's agreeious that Brown got it. Then Igodala though.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, you know, like no question, but
I yeah, just take the one two from the two
title teams and you're like I'm not gonna quibble, like
ray Allen just isn't above Garnett or Pierce in terms
of importance, and I don't think Rondo is either. And
then Tatum I think is like indisputable brown. If you
had to knock one off, it's probably Brown. But like,
how are you justifying a finals MVP not being on
the mount? You know what I mean? Like, I think
that's the right place to land.
Speaker 1: If you were gonna go for Vibes more smart have.
Speaker 2: A case that's another name where it's like there's probably
a contingent of Celtics fans that he's just he's bulletproof too,
you know. But I don't think that would have been
the objectively. I support Vibes picks. I want to get
that on the record, But I don't think this was
the time.
Speaker 1: The Brooklyn Nets mount Rushmore since two thousand. This was interesting.
I went with Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd and
brook Lopez. I think when you look at those three,
I mean, Kidd is just the most inarguable of the
bunch that was the Nets. Like he led the Nets
to the finals, that's a big deal. He's still maybe
that's not the team he's most associated with, but he's
probably the star that's most associated with the Nets specifically.
Vince Carter was still like playing at or near his
peak for a lot of his Nets tenure. Richard Jefferson
was a fringe all star on a lot of really
good Nets teams. And I think with brook Lopez, if
you were looking at there were probably some better one
year individual peaks from a Kevin Durant or a Kyrie Irving.
James Harden was there for a hot minute in case
anybody remembers, But like this is just like the guy
when you're looking at the Brooklyn Nets. In terms of longevity,
he made an all star team with them. He wasn't
known as the defensive force, like as a rim protector
for most of his tenure with them. That started to
change under Kenny Atkinson a bit, but he was their
number one option at points, so like a steady amount
of time. And so I think, as of right now, it's, yeah,
there's Jason Kidd, but then I think brook Lopez is
the player that I'm since two thousand I associate with
the Nets like second most other than Jason Kidd.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you've got two guys here in Kid
and Carter that like I definitely thought about. I mean,
I'm sure you thought we'll get to Toronto, like there's
kind of no doubt there. But like it's this is
like encapsulating the Nets right where it's like, yeah, they've
had some guys, but they're like not nobody's ever really
a true net in the same you know, there's just
been all these dead periods in the franchise history. Like
I think the only other way that I think, I again,
I'm on board here. I think the only tweak you
could make is if you wanted to just honor those
really good Beginning of the Century teams that that Kid
and Jefferson were on, and you could go like Kenyon
Martin and Carry Kittles or like Keith van Hornet, like
you'd pull from that era entirely. But I I mean,
you can't pretend that like Carry Kittles had a better
NETS performance than Vince Carter. Like it's you know, so
that's that's an example of like we're just kind of
weighing apples and oranges.
Speaker 1: In some cases, who's the guy that would be the
one that gets knocked off? Is a Carter joke because
I'm assuming, like brook Lopez is first in points and
blocks in franchise history.
Speaker 2: He's just yeah, I think maybe it's weird, but it
might be Carter just because he's like a lock for
another team. And I kind of factored that in sometimes
if I was gonna make if I was gonna make it.
Speaker 1: Well you say he was a lock, but he wasn't.
He wasn't actually a lock for me.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you did Toronto, so I don't. I don't
know who you picked. Uh, it would have been locked
for me. But I'm excited for the for the debate later,
maybe we move.
Speaker 1: On to the Charlotte Hornets. Look, guys, this is it's tough.
It's rough. I struggled. I talked to Grant about it.
I settled on LaMelo Ball, Kemba Walker, Gerald Wallace, and
Al Jefferson. I think Kemba Walker and Jared Wallace are
just in here. The longevity with the Hornets. Kemba making
All NBA team with the Hornets, Al Jefferson is probably
stands out as the most egregious. But the Hornets have
had so little success that if you made an All
NBA team during this stretch as a member of the Hornets.
It's him and it's Kemba and that's it. And that's
the last time, too, is when Al Jefferson was on there,
scoring like twenty points a game or whatever it was.
They're in that playoff series against the Heat, actually thought
they were gonna win. I thought there was a chance
at the Hornets might go to the conference finals. That's
the last time I felt like, really really good about
the Charlotte Hornets. And so I'm going with Al jeff
I don't care that his tenure there was basically nil
compared to some other dudes that I could have went with.
But when you start to look at the alternatives where
it's all right, Marvin Williams, I don't hate it, but
like Cody Zeller, Michael kick Gilchrist, I'm absolutely not picking
Miles Bridges, Raymond Felton, Like it's starting to get rough,
and I think that's even maybe some people wouldn't have
LaMelo ball on this, but he's the most electrifying player
that they've had, even more so than Kemba Walker this
quarter century. He just hasn't been healthy and it's just
when you think of someone who has the it factor
as a star. He just plays that style. Is that
type of polarizing player. I understand he hasn't been on
a lot of good Hornets teams. I think you could
say that about anyone, frankly who has played for the
Charlotte Hornets since two thousand.
Speaker 2: That's the well that that and also like they're starting
behind because they didn't exist for the first several years
of the century, so like that, and because they're an
expansion team initially as the Bobcats, you're just gonna be terrible.
So this is this is probably the worst collection of
players we're gonna cover. I think maybe we can we
can reassess that if we get another ugly one. But
it's kind of like, what do you want him to do?
They haven't existed for that long and they've basically never
been good outside of a couple of years in there.
Speaker 1: Would you have what would be like your runner up
for the fifth spot if you had to pick one
for this team. I thought it was more was.
Speaker 2: Either him, like it could be Oka for it could
be Oka, even though it's such a short career. It
can't be Bridges, it can't be MKG like this speaks
to the issue here if you're just sorting by wind shares,
kid Gilchrist is seventh and like we remember him for
one a funky shot and two being very bad for
a number two pick, and he's he's like he's in
consideration here. That's just like there's not a lot to
choose from.
Speaker 1: Do you think that we could just put Anthony Davis
here as a nod to like how unfortunate that draft
was for them?
Speaker 2: I think I think Charlotte fans would appreciate it, if
you want to do that.
Speaker 1: Next up, we have the Chicago Bulls. This one maybe
it should have been harder, but it wasn't for me,
Jimmy Butler, Louel Dang, Joe Kim Noah, Derek Rose. Uh.
Derek Rose is one of the biggest what ifs in
NBA history, and had he never he never gotten injured,
maybe he wins multiple MVPs. I think the Bulls are
probably certainly just a contender for longer, maybe they even
win a title. I associate Louell Dang and Joe Kem
Noah both and Noah specifically okay with Derek Rose, but
then also a lot post Rose injuries where those guys
carried a heavy workload. They typified the whole blue chip
we have more than enough to win ethos that Tom
Thibodau espoused for like that entire era, and Jimmy Butler's
kind of an extension of that. There's also what if
two what ifs with him? But if Derreck Rose never
gets injured, is Jimmy Butler become Jimmy Butler at some
point and how those two co exist together? And then
also the biggest demerit against Butler for this would be
the Bulls actually trading him, like he could have built
up more longevity for this franchise. But I think you
could argue, because of the Rose injury that he is
the player had he stayed here that would have reached
the highest peak with the Bulls. That doesn't necessarily factor in,
But when you're kind of looking at the other alternatives,
I think he might be the one people would quibble
over a little bit. But are you really gonna go
with Kirk Hinrich, todsh Gibson or Zach Lavine or somebody
else over him? I couldn't get there.
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't either. I think the only player I
would consider, and I like, don't ask me who I'd
kick off because it wouldn't be any of these is
like is Gibson. I just feel like he's very much
with the same group. This is also a situation. I
don't know if you ran into this, we couldn't pick coaches,
but like Tibbs really would be someone you would consider
if coaches were involved, just because, like he defines that
highly successful era of Bulls basketball, which really is like
as good as it got this century, so you know,
and it's just it's so associated with him. I had
a handful of situations like that. Didn't pick any coaches
because that's not part of this. But that's kind of
like where my head goes with this with this group.
But this is the group I don't think. I don't
think you missed anybody.
Speaker 1: Do we shout out Aaron Brooks? You might have come
pretty close to me.
Speaker 2: It's been a long time since Aaron Brooks has been
shouted out, so please do.
Speaker 1: We're onto the Cleveland Cavaliers. This was actually tough. I
went with Kyrie Lebron, Kevin Love, and then Zildrunis Ogaskis.
I think Kyrie Lebron locks no notes. You run into
some issues when you're trying to pick the final two slots,
I think Anderson Beverage Out will be a popular pick.
I'm giving Kevin Love a bump because he played a
major role on the two sixteen title team. Now maybe
you could pick Tristan Thompson for that same reason as well,
and he was incredibly valuable to what the Cavs did
defensively throughout that run. But like maybe during the finals,
could you make the case that Thompson was more valuable
than Love? Perhaps, But like wire to wire, it's still
Kevin Love for me. So maybe the move would have been,
we'll just pick everyone from that twenty sixteenth title team
and leave off big Z. But he's like the best
teammate Lebron like in terms of high end teammate that
Lebron ever played with that first time around, right, And
so he was he has the tenure. Of course, the
longevity is there, so I felt compelled to go with
him here.
Speaker 2: I think if you're gonna you have to have Kyrie
Lebron in Love just because they won a title. And
then if you're picking one player from the like outside
that section of their history, it's probably I think it
is Olgaskis, But It's funny that when you think on
those early Lebron Cavs teams, depending on the year'd be like, oh,
it's probably Moe Williams, or I don't know, Daniel Gibson
hit a lot of really big shots. Maybe it's you
can really you can dig pretty deep. Just I mean,
that's what that does is speak to the just total
lack of quality around Lebron those early years that you
could have a conversation about some of those guys.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I think this is right. I again,
you win a championship with a team that does not
have a lot of championships or like any others.
Speaker 1: That city was in like what almost a sixty year
champion was fifty two years or whatever.
Speaker 2: It was drought if anything. You could just pick whoever
you'd put, like Tom put Thompson on there over Ogauskas.
But I like the Ogauskas inclusion. I made a lot
of similar moves.
Speaker 1: Would you have considered any of the current era calves,
whether it's Donovan, Mitchell, Darius Gone or I think Mobley
was I'm not gonna lie Molbley was just a little
bit tempting, but I think I was getting ahead of
my steeze there where it's always coming off dpo y
the best season. But he's only been there for three
years and they have not even advanced to a comp
not that that's not a you know, demerit against him,
but they haven't even gotten to a conference fund right,
So I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, know that. Like if you told me that Mobley or
Donovan Mitchell had twice as many years with the team
as they do right now and still and like similar
levels of playoff success, I think you could talk about
one of them over Ilgauskas. But just the length of
ten years not enough. And then the like the heights
reached are not high enough.
Speaker 1: I think for had they been the finals team from
the East this year, that would like against the Thunders,
that would have made something. I think it would have
had to have been Mobile or Mitchell in that even
though Mitchell's tenures so short, that might have made it interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Oh take a break, Dan, We're on
to the West. I have the Dallas Mavericks, like Dirk Novitsky,
just what are we doing twenty one years with the
same team took less at the end. That's a ViBe's
pick because because he was trying to help prolong like
the competitive window of the team, one of the greatest
scorers of all time.
Speaker 1: Did he take less as Lebron did with the Lakers
in the summer.
Speaker 2: I think he took like ten x less than Lebron's
discount with the Lakers. So and then Dirk is obvious
twenty eleven title best player. He's been an MVP all
this stuff. Jason Terry was the other guy I picked
from that group, the twenty eleven Ish team. You could go, well,
we could talk about who you could go with after
I get through this. For Luka Doncic, like he took
him to the finals, one of the best first five
year stretches of any NBA career in history. He's gone,
but like it was enough, you know what I mean?
Like just the individual production. I think we're Harrison's Mount
Rushmore since two thousand. Well, he only puts hard workers
on his on his Mount Rushmore, which is why Dwight
Powell would probably be on his. Uh. That's my fourth pick.
This is a Vibes pick. He's been there forever. He's
very much in the Eudonis Haslam territory. Only Dirk has
played more games as a MAV this century than Dwight Powell,
which is impressive because like he's not been in the
rotation for a good chunk of it, Like he was
a starter for a handful of years. He's just such
a staple that I did end up including him over
certainly better player Sean Marrion has been there, like Vince
Carter has been there just for a minute, Like you
could go down the lit I mean, there's a lot
of other options. I'm trying not to slight anybody, like
you could go back Steve Nash, Like Nash was actually
a tough one because him and Dirk, like under Don
Nelson before Nash goes to Phoenix, that offense was like,
oh my god, can you believe how many threes this
team is shooting and how fast they're playing. Nash was
part of that. It's just he's good spoiler. He'll be
there for Phoenix, and I don't know, I wanted to
throw Powell up there just as a nod to the
longevity thing.
Speaker 1: I think this is the first well krat we've only
gone through, mind, so of course I'm gonna agree with
all of mine. I think this is the first disagreement
we have because I would not I would have put
like Kid or Steve Nash, Yeah, Sean Marry. I mean
the kid was on the championship team too. Could you've
even gone with Tyson Chandler just for setting that tone.
Dwight Powell's certainly the vibes pick, but it's just has
he played? Is he as good at that as your
Donna's HASLM would be? For like you could pick Dedonna's
HASLM for the heat. I think people be like, you know, yeah,
that makes sense, Like does Powell will have that same
level of influence? I don't know.
Speaker 2: That's why this is a good exercise, Dan, because we're trying.
I'm not actively trying to court controversy.
Speaker 1: But if it happens, So who was your I think
I probably man Nash was actually there longer than I
thought for the early two thousands. I might have leaned him.
Who would your fifth pick if been would have been
Kid or I.
Speaker 2: Think it's Nasher Kid. Like you can't go back as
far as like Michael Finley because he was a fair
amount of his best years were in the nineties. Like
Josh Howard is pretty high up on the wind Shares list.
I think like, kid does happen here? Kid was there
for the championship. I don't know. It just felt like
he started there and he was gone forever and he
came back, Like I guess he's probably I mean, he's
a coach now, so maybe that's I don't know if
you get bonus points for that. It would have been
Nasher Kid probably Nash just because I'm biased.
Speaker 1: I think that's the right answer actually, rather than with
Dwight Powell. I respect a vibes picked though, yeah lives picks.
Salute to you and your poor decisions.
Speaker 2: All right, Denver Nuggets up next. Three no brainers to me. Jokic,
Jamal Murray Aaron Gordon. They were the three most important
players on the title team. Jokic's resume is as good
as it gets in the modern era, like just compared
to some of the other players on other teams, like
you would. Murray and Gordon neither has been an All Star.
That's rare. But Denver doesn't have a litany of championships,
and the best era of the franchise outside of maybe
one other that didn't win a championship, was run by
these three guys. The fourth player is Carmelo, Like, it's
easy to forget. I think as I was looking this up,
he still has played more seasons in Denver than anywhere else.
Even though he's so associated with the Knicks, it's just
easy to forget that they made the playoffs every year
he was there. He scored a ton. He's second in
games played for the Nuggets this century, which is wild
to me. So it's been kind of a revolving door
without a ton of success. I guess outside of the
Yo kitchen and mellow eras any notes there does is
there somebody does mellow feel wrong to you? That was
I actually did think about maybe do I just add
like KCP or something.
Speaker 1: So I guess the argument there would just be they
were on the title team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 1: Charny Billups didn't play there long. I mean, then you're
getting into like Nene Kenneth Reid territory.
Speaker 2: That all Agodala even like all the like who else
was on ty Lawson, like all these guys that were there.
Speaker 1: Crime ty Lawson, You remember him, Wow, he was very fast.
I remember. I think when people try to like talk
about Kamel Anthey and the Nuggets that they just overthink
it it's all right, Like Jokis is clearly the best
player in franchise history, and like Melo didn't win a title,
but you said at the top, they made the playoffs
every year he scored a ton, Like that team was
a contender at points, teams were flocking to them when
he wanted out in twenty eleven, he's one of the
best nuggets of all time. Like, there's just I think
we're far enough removed from that situation right where we
could just say that, and it's like, not gonna receive
a ton of pushback.
Speaker 2: No, I think you can. You can sign in one hand,
you can hold the truth that like Mellow, maybe wasn't
good enough to be the best player on a championship team,
but like nobody else in consideration for this qualifies as that.
So you know, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: Onto the Detroit Pistons. They are my team. I went
into this thinking I'm probably gonna pick everyone from that
two thousand and four championship team, but I had to
cut one, so I went with Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton,
Tayshawn Prince, and Ben Wallace, which then of course leaves
out Rashid Wallace. I just Ben Wallace is a lock
to me, like all those DPO wise as a generational defender.
I look at Chauncey Billups is also a lock, kind
of the driving force of all like him and Rip
Hamilton with a driving forces of a team's offense that
wasn't known for its offense. But mister big shot Chauncey
Billps has to be in there. Rip Hamilton just scored
a ton for this team, and the fact that he
was scoring so much and played so much on a
team that was known for its defense when maybe that
wasn't his strong suit. Tayshawn Prince versus Rashid Wallace gets
kind of interesting, but I think the longevity wins out.
Tayshon Prince has played one hundred and thirty seven more
games than anyone else in a Piston's uniform since two thousand. Yeah,
and he just ranks in the top five of all
the major counting stats. I actually think that if he
played today, he would probably be even more appreciated than
he was back then. Like this is someone who probably
would have gotten like a couple two Max contract cycles.
Speaker 2: It's like a Jaden McDaniels, but maybe better type of guy.
Speaker 1: Right, definitely certainly a better playmaker. Yeah, yeah, so I
this is the four I settled on. Do you have
any qualms?
Speaker 2: I the only one would have been Rashid, But you
can't like and Princes probably you cannot. Hamilton, Billups and
Wallace are just like they're there, you can't move them.
The sheer volume of Prince over Wallace make I think
Wallace is probably a better player, like just you know,
night to night, but I think Prince his impact overall
is just higher.
Speaker 1: And the other thing here too is like I didn't
give much consideration to Andre Drummond. Maybe recency buys would
be like I think we're just so excited about the
Pistons that Kay Cunningham can get an honorable mention, but
like you can't touch no, the two thousand and four
title team. It wouldn't have just.
Speaker 2: Conference finals like how many eight years in a row?
Like something like six in a row, four like several
multiple finals like what there's They're just that is the
era of Detroit Pistons basketball for the last twenty five
plus years since like the early nineties. Here we go.
This was the easiest one, I think for me for
obvious reasons. But also just because like this franchise was
absolute trash going back before the two thousands, like really
from ninety four on until you get the we believe
bump in there. We could talk about like maybe do
you throw Baron Davis on there as an honorable mention?
Probably he'd be the guy, but it's Steph clay Draymond Igodala.
You could argue Kevon Looney, I guess, but Iguodala I
credit him for one, like I don't know, there's something
valuable to me about him being like I see what's
happening there, and I would like to go to there,
and then also I'll come off the bench, and it
sets a culture. He does have the Finals MVP, the
dubious Finals MVP. He was just like the perfect missing
piece there. And then there's just no other meaningful team
success and there's no other players with career act like histories.
There's no other MVPs, there's very few All Stars, there's
very few All NBA's, there's no other DPSE like this.
This one just kind of set itself.
Speaker 1: To me, you didn't give any like serious thought to
two time Finals MVP Kevin Durant, that didn't.
Speaker 2: Know they won one before he was there, and they
won one after and the.
Speaker 1: Three Cours one after.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe then I think that the Bookend twenty two
title really did just make it so it's like it's
these four guys, and then Durant exists in his own
kind of area, and then you have like Looney Livingston, Uh,
who else you know like that?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, throw hairs and Barns on there. Why not
like that classic guys? But if you wanted to go
back further, then you have to talk about like Baron Davis,
Steven Jackson, like the monte Ellis of it all, like
were that those guys just aren't close to the same level.
Houston up next. For me, I did struggle with this
one as I'm looking back at it. So James Harden
one of the single best offensive players of all time.
His absolute peak years were here. They just like number
one with the bullet Yeah, easily forgotten, but was just
an All Star every season he was healthy. The All
Star votes from China helped, but like the production was
absolutely there. He's another guy that I think if we
were playing today, like Snekily might be more valuable, just
because he would have been a three point shooter, I
have no doubt of it. And if Brook Lopez can
survive and be a great defensive big man like he
could have, the other two were tough. I went with
Clint Capella, who feels like a just not quite good
enough of a player. But if you're looking for the
guy that was there with Harden through some of those
like high fifties win totals, some of those conference finals trips,
some of those like if not for the Warriors, these
Rockets are in a couple finals, Capella is kind of
the second guy that's there the whole time, so and
easy to forget. Now, this ridiculous offensive rebounder could would
catch all the hardened lobs like just was kind of
perfect for that team. Shane Battier is my last one
little bit of vibes. Also the like, as I'm looking,
he's sixth in wind shares on the Rockets since two thousand,
so the numbers are there, but he was like, he's
the no stats all star. He's the guy that shows
up in the Michael Lewis article that puts Darryl Mory
on the map as the analytics friendly like GM and
and so like in terms of his impact I think
because you still associate like with the Rockets, with the
number crunching and all this Mory stuff and Battier like
is the poster boy for that. So I threw him
on there, omitting Tracy McGrady, but which is deeply painful.
He's one of my favorite players of the century. But
you're gonna get him on there for Orlando, I have faith.
Speaker 1: Right, but we didn't have this rule where you couldn't
pick a player for no team, and so that's I'm
staring at this one. And I don't know, by the way,
shout out to Clincapella. As we were putting together images
for this, some of the best action shots in the business.
I apologize, Clinton, I didn't know about your name of
the action shots that there were just of you. So
I don't know how you leave off Tracy McGrady here.
And the thing that I'm harping on, and maybe this
is an simplification, here's every Rockets player in franchise history to
make multiple All NBA teams, Hakeem Harden, Yao, Moses Malone,
and t mac So he made three All NBA teams
with I know his prime feels like or his prime
and tenure all feel like they were cut short with
basically every single team that he was on, specifically the Raptors,
the Magic and the Rockets. But I don't know how
he doesn't make like even because you have two guys
that I think could be qualified as either vibes or
strictly tenure guys that don't have the highest peaks. I
think I would have definitely put t mac on here,
probably in place of Battier, but maybe in place of Capella.
Speaker 2: I think I would kick Capella just because I persuaded
myself more with the Batty argument. But here's I take
your point on McGrady and look like I was always
a mcgrady's better than Kobe guy. I don't know if
that's out there, but like that was. That was my
hot take in the early two thousands. Really was firm
in that McGrady played basically three good seasons with Houston
because he was seventy eight games that was awesome. In
his debut four oh five of seventh in MVP, he
plays forty seven. The next year, is not all NBA
plays seventy one. The following year, Grete six and the
MVP eighth and MVP after that, and then the injuries coming.
He's cooked. So it's like I was looking at three
good seasons, which I don't know how you weigh that
against like Battier's gotten more and like the Rockets didn't.
They didn't win a title, they weren't like super dangerous.
I just kind of I mean, they were pretty good.
I guess, I don't know. I think you have a
good argument for McGrady.
Speaker 1: But the other thing, too, this was fun is just
I forget because I always associate Yeah with being injured.
He just five all NBA teams while he's with Yes
in no.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's the like one of the forgotten greats
of the early in mid two thousands. I think ultimately
McGrady is just like the best. McGrady is a magic McGrady,
and it's like not close. He was so ridiculously good
for them, and so that kind of chain dimmed my
perception of him as a rocket. I don't think of
him as a rocket.
Speaker 1: Was there anyone like h Steve Frantis or Louis Scola
or even Chris Paul? Because the heights that the Rockets
each like as the foremost rival of the Warriors that
you considered or yeah really.
Speaker 2: And no to Paul, I just associate Francis and like
Katino Mobley as another guy nowhere near the resume. But
like those guys were just mostly on not very good
Rockets team and then like Francis was electrifying, but like
he just actually wasn't objectively that good because he couldn't shoot.
He didn like he just he for a minute there,
he was kind of the centerpiece of that team. But
I don't I don't think Francis was a real driver
of winning.
Speaker 1: Onto the Indiana Pacers mount Rushmore since two thousand, I
have Paul, George Tyres, Haliburton, Jermaine O'Neill, Miles Turner. I
think this might be the single team that I'm least
confident in because they have so many good options. I
think right off, rip I didn't put Reggie Miller on
here because we didn't have post two thousand, Like we
didn't have the best version of Reggie Miller. He still
did play. I think it was like five seasons logged
with the Pacers, So if you want to make the
case that he's the franchise icon, he was still serviceable
for a lot of that time. So he's a combination
of a vibes pick and icon and still was an
effective player. I totally get that. I think Paul George
those Pacers teams were the primary threat to the Heatles
error Miami team with Lebron d Wade and Bosh Tyres.
Alberton just led the Pacers to consecutive Eastern Conference Finals
and then the NBA Finals. I don't know how you
don't put him on here, so he was clear. Him
and Paul George were the clear locks. Miles Turner has
the longevity bump. I think you could make it. Maybe
that's the guy you want to bump for Reggie Miller,
or maybe that's Jermaine O'Neil. I also think what Jermaine
O'Neil did with the Pacers kind of goes underappreciated, like
that dude was just a versatile offensive monster and the
heights that he reached with Indiana, I mean, my god,
but this team is you could go a number of
different directions here, and I think I don't know how
to square away the Miles Turner stuff. He's never been
an All Star, but at the same time, like he
was there for a decade. He's like he gets a
bump too, because he survived. He was there for how
many years, and he survived Trey rumors for the same
amount of years. He just kept coming back set the
like stage or not the stage, but was a tone
setter when it comes to those floor spacing, rim protector archetypes.
And he expanded his game a little bit. But he's
the guy, even though we couldn't rebound as well, even
though there were some matchups we saw it in this
year's finals that weren't great for him. That was the
big man, the type of big man that everybody wanted,
and he's just been that for so long, and so
this is who I settled on. But like I said,
aside from Paul George and Tyrese Haliburt, and I don't
feel great about.
Speaker 2: This one, no, I think. So Turner is also first
in wind shares in the franchise for the century, so
like any ties probably should be broken in his favor
for that reason, if you just go with the numbers,
like Danny Granger is someone that a lot of people
would clamor for I think, but I sort of think
you can't. You need Paul George and you can't really
take two players from like that era, even though George
kind of ascended as Granger was falling off. So like,
George is the right guy from that because it's not
gonna be Hibbert, it's not gonna be George Hill, David West.
Those are Lance Stevens of Lance Stevenson might have been
a Vibes pick for me. His bust would be blowing
air on the on the mountain, I think would be good.
And then O'Neill is the right pick from the very
early two thousands Pacers because it wouldn't be our test.
I don't think Miller was kind of there, But like,
I think you're right to exclude Miller. He's just a
he's a twenty he's a pre two thousands kind of guy.
So I'm finding myself agreeing with your picks a lot
more than you're agreeing with mine. So the either your
argumentative or you did a better job than me.
Speaker 1: I'm very argumentative. And also the thing that's kind of
swayed me with I felt better about picking O'Neal was
he is tied with it's Reggie Miller. And who's the
other guy from the Pacers, Paul George. Those are the
three guys who've made the most all NBA teams if
each made three apiece in a Pacers jersey, And so
that made me feel better, and it was also kind
of a reminder like, oh damn, Jermaine O'Neill was just
really freaking good and he's third all time in franchise
history and points no one's gonna catch Reggie Miller, I know,
but that that one was tough because he's on the
Pacers through two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
and it's do you think that I could have justified
just being like Reggie instead of like is it Turner?
Is there only who's the one that gets bumped?
Speaker 2: Well, like, there's no if you're picking one guy in
franchise history, it's just Miller, right, Like, but but that's
just not what this is, you know. I think I
think you have to make the cuts where you have
to and Miller, just like post two thousand, Reggie Miller
was not the best version of Reggie Miller either, Like
he was still good for a chunk of that, but
you know, you're not putting that player, and like what
he accomplished on on Row, if they'd won a title,
then it would have to be even if he was
like towards the end, that's all. But that's all, that's
the bar, all right. I've got the Clippers, Uh, the
first three spots, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Deondre Jordan the
Clippers as much as I've had a couple of these teams,
but it's like they had zero success outside of one
Elton brand led run. I did consider him from the
like six oh seven I think was the year, but
couldn't quite get there. Not a long enough prime, not
enough team success Paul. Their debate to me is really
like if you had to pick the first spot, is
it Paul or is it Griffin? And the case for
Paul is like he just made everything work, Like DeAndre
Jordan led the league in effective field goal percentage like
every year from like twelve to seventeen, and it's because
he's catching lobs, Like that's Chris. Paul made that happen.
But I kept finding myself thinking, like when I think
of lob City, it's always Blake. Griffin is first to mind,
just because of like the right he's kind of the
one of the first viral like superstars where it's just
like the next morning, if this is not viral, but
it's like, what, who did he dunk on last night?
Or like every Clippers game was like you were holding
your breath, you know, in those early years, just waiting
for a breakaway. So he's like he's the Vibes's associated pick,
but Chris Paul is just like he was the best
player on that team. The fourth one was hard because
I was just gonna pick from that era again, from
the Lob City era. JJ Reddick wasn't there for as
long as you think he was. And then after after
I kind of settled on that, it just had to
be Jamal Crawford won a couple six Man of the
Years and the image of him just coming off the
bench because Doc Rivers always did like the five in
five out subs, and Crawford would just come in and
cook for six minutes and not pass, and it's just
like that. That's the other enduring image of those Clippers
teams is when all the starter sat, Crawford would come
in and just get you sixteen points. So that that
was the last spot. But I'm open to debate on
that one.
Speaker 1: Did you give any sort of consideration to of Eata zubots.
Speaker 2: If he had like two more years as good as
last season, and maybe the Clippers advanced a little farther. Mate,
I would have thought about it, but then it's like, well,
if that's happening, then either Leonard or or like James
Harden is also having more good years, and that's I
didn't We'll just to say I didn't think very hard
about Leonard or Harden. Just not long enough, not healthy enough,
not enough like high end success for me.
Speaker 1: I just was interested. Zubots is seventh all time Equippers
wind shares. I know the bars of course low like.
Speaker 2: After he's fifth in the date cutoff that we're using too,
so like certainly if you're just going by the numbers,
he's he's your honorable mention guy.
Speaker 1: I think you got it right, just because there it's
hard to find that like fourth player who's just associated
with the Clippers. Yeah, I don't I don't even know
who that. I guess it would be Zoobots would be
my pick. But you mentioned Reddick is kind of associated
with that error, it's kind of yeah, it's it's kind
of process of elimination like you did with certain title teams,
except this just wasn't a title team. You're just doing
it by that era.
Speaker 2: So I'll start with I did not include Lebron James
on the Lakers mount Rushmore.
Speaker 1: I am outraged.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, this team has a lot of rings,
and Lebron got him one, and that's more than several
other teams we're gonna talk about. Uh, but I just
like everybody here that got multiple and and mattered a
lot in those like and Lebron's been there a long time.
There's absolutely a case for Lebron. He's gonna make two others,
so he's good. Uh, Kobe, no question, no doubt. One
of those rings I think counts before. I think I
think it was like the ninety nine two thousand season,
So that doesn't factor in here. Well, he's still has four.
Shack was the best player on the first three peat
and so we're gonna throw him up there. Pau Gasol
was the key running mate on the last two Lakers
titles with Kobe. I just like the numbers are like
good enough. He seventeen point seven points, nine point nine boards,
three and a half assists, one point four blocks from
eight to fourteen for pow. Nobody else in the league had.
We're cherry picking, admitted nobody else in the league averaged
those numbers from during that stretch of the season, So Powe,
grossly underrated historically was an awesome, like overqualified second option
on a title team. Derek Fisher is the last one.
No case like in terms of star quality or like
individual accolades. But he's just there for all the titles.
He's starts on all the title teams, and as a
big leader I got I want to get it right.
I don't have the stat in front of me, but
like games minutes, like all that stuff, he's way up
there for this century and in terms of yeah, he
doesn't have a case otherwise. So like if you want
Anthony Davis, if you want lamar odom, God, godspeed. But
I'm going with the guy that was there for five titles,
four of which actually count in the sample we're considering.
Speaker 1: I think I could argue this one, and I think
I'm about to just like, first of all, I haven't
has it kind of said it in on you that
there's a chance. I don't know if it's gonna happen
next season the season after, but Lebron might spend more
consecutive years with the Lakers than any other team in
his career in that bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it doesn't feel right. It feels
like that can't be possible.
Speaker 1: But like only one title, but he's also second during
this period in points in assists that he's like top
three in steals or box or whatever it might be.
I would have a tough time leaving that off in
favor of someone in Derek Fisher, who I view is
more of a glue guy. But I get the ring count.
Not to boil it down to rings, yeah, I get it,
But it's also because Lebron. To me, he's no worse
than the second greatest player of all time. He's probably
my goat. He spent like we're not still in Lebron's prime.
We've seen better years from Lebron. But just like I
just don't know how you leave, he keeps coming up
and all. It just it really comes down to you,
for spent more time there wins rings. And I'm not
even diminishing that because that's a really strong case. It
just feels so weird not having Lebron James on this list.
Speaker 2: You made me think of another criteria that I should
have mentioned at the top, and that is like I'm
trying to think of it from a fan perspective in
some sense in that like who is beloved? You know,
like who who among fans like just like is beloved
is like an iconic player is like someone that you
know they associate with like the best times and like,
you know, like who's kind of legendary and like it.
I know, like some of the Lakers fans I know,
likeor of don't ignowl like Lebron's not their guy. They're like,
I'm a Kobe guy. I love the Lakers. Lebron is
just sort of here. I don't feel like Lebron has
that same appeal to like die hard Lakers fans. I'm
sure they're happy to have him and have been glad
that he's been maker as long as he has. But
you know what I mean, Like I think Fisher is
like when you're sitting there, like god, you remember the
good like oh he was, you know, like having that
fan conversation. I do think Fisher holds a different type
of place in Lakers fans minds and hearts than Lebron does.
Maybe that's not fair to Lebron, but that that was
a factor and will continue to be in some of
my picks.
Speaker 1: I think the timing of you doing this is probably
perfect because the sentiment on Lebron might be lower now
that Luca is there, so people might have an easier
time dismissing and the other thing. I don't assign value
to this because I think winning a championship under any
circumstance that any season is hard. I wonder how much
whether it's Lakers fans or certainly other just general fans
of the NBA, other teams fans are gonna ding him
to say, well, he won the Bubble Championship, that's not
a real champion. I think that is just one of
the all time dumbest arguments that have ever been made
in the NBAH fear. But I don't have a huge
issue with this. It's just weird to not have Lebron
there when he's actually been with the Lakers for very
like the better part of a decade. Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know, make have make people like you more
or win more championships. What can I tell you another
team that gives us a chance to just celebrate a
bygone era. I kind of clippers this where I just like,
what's the best what era of Memphis Grizzlies basketball did
fans love the most, And it's like unquestionably GrITT and
grind So Marc Gasol easy pick Defensive Player of the Year,
Mike Conley just the steadiest, steady starting point guard of
all time, was great for them, zero technical fouls. And
then you have Zach Randolph and Tony Allen First Team
All Defense Tony Allen Zach Randolph just the meanest right shoulder,
has no moves, but was incredible. The two mean guys
in between Gasol and and Conley, Like Allen is the
guy I think statistically you'd say, like, I don't know
about that, but so if you take him off, you
have to think about Paw Gasol. But he predates this
and is like actually the way that they get Mark Gasol.
Uh So, like that's I don't know what you do
with that. And I gave him. I gave him the
the Lakers rushmore so I felt like he wouldn't be
too slighted there. Do you think Memphis fans are like
this is the four or is there somebody else that like,
is it Battier? Is it like Mike Miler?
Speaker 1: I thought about Battier and Miller. I also just wondered,
if you're this is a combination of vibes and just electricity,
John Morant is probably gonna make some of them because
he's the one that kind of made the Grizzly like
the grit and grind. Grizzlies were not this national draw.
You had to be a real sicko to want to
watch that Grizzlies team. Nobody wanted to play them. Let
me be clear, they were respected as hell throughout the league.
And so that's why I kind of thought about John Morant.
I think these are the right picks because if you're gonna, like, really,
if you're gonna go with vibes like that, and it's
Tony Allen for sure, but if you're saying now, there
needs to be a stronger statistical case in John Moran's
peak was certainly higher. He's an All NBA type player.
I think that's probably the pick you have to because
what is it going to be Rudy Gay? I mean right, like,
because if you go Rudy Gay, Shane Batty or Mike
Miller over Tony Allen, doesn't that just get all kinds
of weird?
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like, what do you think about the
idea that if we had done this too, like two
full years ago, I think Moran's chances would have been better,
because the last two years have not been favorable for him,
I think. But I do take your point that, like
I think we've talked to Keith Parrish for the look
ahead maybe last year, and I think he made the
point that like John Moran is the single most celebrated
Memphis athlete like ever, He's just like his popularity is
like impossible to overstate. I wonder if that's still true
to the same degree. But I do think if we've
done this in twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two,
Moran probably would have fared better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to know, Grizzlies fans, let us know
the comments down there to see who you would have
picked as the mount right, because it does feel like
there are three on a sailable locks here, Like if
you don't have I guess you could argue Mike Conley
not getting a technical is that just evidence of a
lack of passion? He doesn't he care enough? Who who
cares less Mike Conley or Nicolokic about when he gets
hard to say, grant that's so, I think those three
are clear locks, just Zebo, Conley and Gasol. You could
probably quibble over Allen, but does it it has to
be I know, I just actually this, but we didn't really
settle on an answer. It has to be Joh if
it's not Allen to me because Allen would be the
symbol of what like more so than a Batier than
a Miller. So if you're going with someone who isn't him,
it should be just the bigger name, the glitzier face.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1: We are onto the Miami Heat mount rushmore since two thousand.
This was actually kind of hard. Lebron and d Wade
are just in the d Wade's just the best he
player in franchise history done. Lebron only there for four years.
Guess what, they made the finals every single year. Two MVPs.
Then you this is where it gets tough. I went
with Jimmy Butler because he did lead them to multiple
finals postseason Jimmy two. I think people forget like he
became the stuff like it's almost mythic, except that it's
true because of how he would ratchet it up in
the playoffs. Your Donnas has them would be the vibes
pick the symbolic pick there forever. But like bam Adebayo
is just better, and the fact that he's been a
perennial defensive Player of the Year contender just hasn't gotten
there yet. I certainly think that it doesn't need to
be him, But I think I look at I just
feel like what he's done is too hard for Shack
to overcome in that smaller window. And then Yourdonnas has
them to overcome. Is okay, you lead the franchise and
rebounds all time or whatever it is, but like, was
your peak sort of anywhere near BAM's And already with
Bam he ranks no lower than fourth in franchise history,
so not even just since two thousand in total minutes,
which he's third, points, which is second, rebounds second, assists second,
steals third, and blocks fourth. I think that's like a
pretty big deal.
Speaker 2: I think I would have gone Bosh. I think I
would have. I think I would have. I mean, I
get it, Like the statistical case is there. I just
I think I would default too, and he's beloved too
out of bio is I think Jimmy has to be there.
But like I think the if I had to make
the tough decision. I would take three heatles and then
leave Jimmy as opposed to two and then and then
have Bam on there. But like, that's a tough call.
I don't envy you having to make that. I think
I think if push came to shove, I'd have Bosh
over Bam, but it would be like, that's a really
tough one. I think your other three is a no
note situation.
Speaker 1: Let me clarify what I said on Bam. I meant
in his ranks for the franchise since two thousand, not
all time, because then you get into a lot. I
think I misspoked there. But yeah, that's Bosh. I had
thought about him too. Again, I thought about Shack. I
forgot that. I know he won a title, like I
forgot that Shaq was still an All NBA player for
some of his time in Miami.
Speaker 2: That did not quite the same though, right, And like
Wade is the you associate with that title. To me,
that that's actually really Wade is. Wade is one with
a bullet, like you know what I mean. He's ahead
of Lebron to me by far.
Speaker 1: So it feels like there might be six or seven
guys that you could make real cases for here. So
you have these four, and then you have Eudonnis Haslam,
you have Bosh and then whether you wanted to talk
about Shack.
Speaker 2: Or not, I mean, do you just just ray Allen
get A mentioned because he hit one of the biggest
shots in NBA history, which washingtoned out right.
Speaker 1: Right, man, I'm like regret. I almost feel like, so
would it be wrong for me to pick if I
was to bounce one of them? And I said, hey, Grant,
you can choose the fourth one, but I get to
pick who leaves. I might bounce Jimmy. Is that dumb?
Speaker 2: I can't. You can't bounce Jimmy and keep Bam because
Jimmy was the best player on the teams that overlapped
with Bam. I mean, like in.
Speaker 1: Terms of just Bam pilled, apparently you are.
Speaker 2: It's a good It's a good pill to be to
be pilled by. Uh. He's He's a great We love Bam.
He's a great player. I think Jimmy was better, at
least in terms in terms of like lifting the team
in a playoff setting, which is just gonna be what
his legacy is. I mean, this was a hard one.
I think it's Bosh for me. But but Bam has
the numbers. Like I think Bosh was a third option,
BAM has never been less than two.
Speaker 1: So so you only would have subbed in Bosh for Bam.
You wouldn't have made any other edits to it.
Speaker 2: No, I think Jimmy, Lebron and Wade just they have
to stay the Milwaukee Bucks.
Speaker 1: So I mean I think that we could just you
could pencil in the title team if you want. But
Giannis is just I think Giannis is probably gonna go
down as the best franchise player in history. That's a
debate to be had with Kareem, but he's in here.
No notes, Brook Lopez just turning into I know this,
this isn't nationally part of it, but just turning into
a defensive Player of the Year candidate once he came
to Milwaukee, who was hitting threes? Insane? Chris Middleton the
two man game, with Giannis the second most important player
or no worse than third, depending on how you felt
about Lopez, those three are just they were the most
important players to a title team. I struggled whether do
I just go with Drew Holliday and like complete though Okay,
these dudes won a championship together, but Michael Redd has
the longevity bump there. That guy could really shoot, really score,
spent a ton of time there, so he has again
that tenure. He was there between two thousand and twenty eleven.
He scored more points in a Bucks jersey during this
time than all but five or he's scored more points
in a Bucks jersey than all but five other players
all time. And he's made more threes with the Bucks
than anyone except Ray Allen and Chris Middleton. So I
think he had just enough credentials. But I would certainly
listen to if people said, hey, yeah, you know, if
they come in with like, I don't know, I guess
Ray Allen would be another option. Or Andrew Bogan. You
think you think Ray Allen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, it's between. I think the Jannis, Lopez
and Middleton are unassailable. And then just just because of
the championship, and and Giannis is like, what are we
talking about? Allen had three All Star Games as a book,
Red had won. Allen got MVP votes, Red didn't Alan.
I think I'm almost certain it was in the two thousands.
It might have been like O two or oh three.
He was the best player on a Bucks team that
did make the Conference finals. I want to say the
team that had Glenn Robinson and Sam Cassell. So I
would give Alan the nod here. But that's the problem
with Alan is like we just talked about him. We
talked about him for the Celtics in passing, we talked
about him in the Heat for the Heat in passing.
He's not gonna make the Oklahoma City team, but like
for his Sonics years, I think you've at least mentioned him.
So it's like he's just all over the map. And
it's almost like if Alan had seven or eight years
with the Bucks at that level, then he's in. But
he doesn't, So I can see why you went with Red.
I would go Alan Overred, though.
Speaker 1: He only had two and a half seasons that fall
into this era, which is what was tough for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got over the rim nineties ninety Yeah in
the league in ninety six, so you're right about that,
but his All Star only two All Star seasons count.
You're right, it's tough. I could see. It makes it
a lot closer, for sure. I have Minnesota Kevin Garnett obviously,
even though some of that's in the nineties, he's still
the like before this current era of Wolf's success, it
was just like, oh four, it was the season you
always pointed to. Garnett was an MVP type player back then,
you know, just one of the best defenders of all
time just was surrounded by not very much talent in
a brutal West and he was just ridiculous. It gets
harder after that. I did put Anthony Edwards on here,
just because he's been the key to the only other
good version of the Wolves we've seen in twenty five years.
It's weird to put someone on here whose like career
Arrow is still pointing up, but I just he's the
best player on the other best Wolves teams, so it
has to be him. That's also kind of the case
for Cat who does make it. He was there for
a really really long time and just the counting stats
are stupid in the All Star Games, and like, he's
just the statistical case is strong enough that I had
to put him there, even though I don't know. He
feels like someone that there are a lot of people
who are, like, you know, who's actually not good as Cat,
And I just I can't quite get there, but just
we're talking about the Wolves, so it's slim Pickens. Lastly,
Kevin Love the team was bad with him there for
almost all the time, all of his tenure. This could
be Ricky Rubio. And I think if I were being
totally consistent and going with like who did fans like,
who do they fall in love with most, it's probably
Rubio for that era of Wolves basketball, which was again
not good.
Speaker 1: Wait, you think Rubio was more beloved.
Speaker 2: Than kat I think Rubio is one of the most
like niche beloved players on any team for the for
this century, like he just ever he because it was
so sad, like the whole narrative like he's seventeen in
playing for Spain and we got this guy and now
the ACL happens and it's like it's just everyone felt
bad for him. He seems like it's such a good dude.
Like we were talking off air before this the other
day and it's like the change your face meme where
he's just like, yeah, just being a sweet guy. Like
I think I think people love Rubio in Minnesota, or
if maybe I'm projecting, I would have loved Rubio in Minnesota.
I loved him from outside Minnesota off couldn't love enough
had to go with some of the numbers. I mean,
Kevin loves statistical cases like he just had absurd production
while he was there. He's third in wind shares behind
Kat and KG for the sentime.
Speaker 1: He was the modern day guy who kind of hollowed
out the meaning of double doubles. I think for everybody
or it's like, oh, there's Kevin Love with like his
nine hundred straight double double Minnesota again.
Speaker 2: Didn't you have a thirty rebound or like he had
a thirty twenty.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty games just became like, oh yeah, whatever Kevin right.
Speaker 2: Then Demonessy Bonus averaged that for a couple of years,
and he knows while e Zerbiak should he have been
here about Peul Richardson?
Speaker 1: You're right, come on, I think this is right. I
don't know. Rubio would have had to have been the
fifth and after that it's I mean, like Gacelle had
a mini tenure here during this time. I don't think Steph.
I don't think Wolves fans will pick Steph Marberry there
at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, he barely gets into the two thousands too.
Is the other problem?
Speaker 1: Now, do you think any of the other I think
Anthony Edwards is the right pick. By the way, do
you think any of the like is. Does Rudy Gobert
have a chance of making this like right now or
if we did this, you know, in a year or two.
Speaker 2: In a well it would depend, right, I think he could.
If the Wolves had a ton of team success, it
would only solidify Edwards's case, and then you might have
to take a second guy right like. And at that point,
maybe it's go Bear Overcat, because Gobert will have been
there and mattered like longer in their like successful phase
than Kat will have. Or maybe Love gets the bump too,
and you just have three guys from the relatively modern Wolves,
which would feel weird, but but what it because they've
just they've never been this consistently good.
Speaker 1: Consecutive conference finals. That's a franchise first, I mean, that
is an apex for them. Yeah, no question, No, NICOLEA.
Pekovich or Al Jefferson Minnesota.
Speaker 2: That's one of the best parts of this exercises. I
haven't thought about Pekovic for a good four years.
Speaker 1: As if human being Matt.
Speaker 2: Harrison Barnes Harrison Barnes's greatest dunk of his career was
just all over him. You remember that one.
Speaker 1: We'll don't not even a little bit. Oh, look up,
describe it to me in grave detail. Please?
Speaker 2: Oh as well, so here you come down. No, we
don't have Oh this one was terrible. I hated doing this.
It's the New Orleans Pelicans, which is also the New Orleans,
Oklahoma City Hornets, which is how Chris Paul gets here.
What do you want? Like? This is where he started
his career. He was only there from five oh six
to ten eleven. He's still the franchise leader in win shares,
led the league and assist twice, steals, three times Rookie
of the Year three.
Speaker 1: All in Like, how many time Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 2: Well, they thought about giving it to him twice, but
they said that doesn't make any sense. We'll give it
to him once. All NBA what else today said? Oh,
he was second in MVP voting in seven oh eight.
That's pretty good. Only there's only one way you can
be better. So he's here, even though he also made
the Clippers and we've thought about him for some others.
I also put David West just because he was the
running mate on what were some relatively successful Hornets teams,
a couple All Star games for him average sixteen and seven.
Anthony Davis makes it again like, you know, not a
ton of team success, but just behind Paul and win
shares for the franchise since two thousand, what three all
NBA teams only played seven seasons? But that's enough. The
last pick, I'm I hate it. I went with Zion.
I just like he's had no team success, He's missed
a ton of time. I just wasn't gonna put PJ.
Brown or Drew Holliday ahead of him, and those are
the only two other guys with.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Pelicans fan like if now, if you're
looking for someone who defines the franchise.
Speaker 2: And that's that's my argument. It's like he's the era
defining player for going on six years now, for better
or worse. And it's not so were you gonna make
the Holiday case? Because I just think I honestly.
Speaker 1: Wonder if you pulled Pelicans fans and get where I
gave them truth serum, I feel like they would pick
Drew Holiday.
Speaker 2: He's certainly like, well, he's more likable, right in terms
of Ricky rub.
Speaker 1: Being beloved he's been beloved wherever he goes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you?
Speaker 1: But do you?
Speaker 2: It's I don't know why I don't associate him with
the Pelicans, do you. I guess you sort of should
because it's.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think who do I associate him with?
Probably the Sixers, and then he won titles with the
Bucks and the Celtics that they were gonna pop up first,
But like he was in Orleans for like a half decade.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, guarding Kevin Durant and every other six to
ten guy that nobody else I could guard.
Speaker 1: Sorry one second, Uh yeah, I have Joe Dumars and
Troy Reaver. They would like Derek Queen on this list.
Speaker 2: You've never done a bit where you pick up your
phone and pretend to answer it. I it's been we've
potted for a long time. I you actually actually had
me first. I was like, what, this must be important?
Speaker 1: Uh And it only came to me like thirty seconds ago.
I thought it's cheesy, it's corny, but uh shout out,
so do it? Well?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because Zion. I hate the Zion pick. I think
maybe it maybe it should just be holiday. I'll stick
with it. Just got like Zion is the when we've
talked about New Orleans since he's been there, there has
never been another item one on the discussion list other
than Zion, and so like that I think factored in. Again,
I'm being inconsistent because I'm going against the whole like
who the fans love, like who's deep in there? Who
are they naming their pets after? It's not Zion?
Speaker 1: Well, no, I think by the way, I think it's fair.
I might have gone with Drew, but maybe from a
fan perspective, Zion is the more likely answer. I think
if you think about what we talked about with the Hornets,
another team where this was not the best exercise and
at least at least the Pelicans have Chris Paul and
Anthony Davis and hanging their hats on like if you
when have we talked about anyone else aside from like
of the other options of if he's healthy, he's just
a top ten player. And so it's the same thing
with Amelo Ball, where we've never talked about him at
that peak, but it's, oh, who on the Hornets could
be an All NBA player during Like it's LaMelo Ball,
Like that is Zion and we all kind of just
recognize that as Zion where ever to stay healthy the Pelicans,
I mean probably not this season's Pelicans if we're being honest,
but like, the Pelicans are just going to be dangerous.
So I totally get where you're coming from with the pick.
This was not fun for me. Grant the New York
Knicks is Mount Rushmore since two thousand. Carmel Athie's on it,
like he's just I mean, he's scored more points. He's
over ten k during this band and anyone else. I
don't know who needs to hear this, but Jalen Brunson
is probably on the New York Knicks' all time Mount
Rushmore at this point. We you just look at what
he's been able to do in the playoffs, brought the
team to their first conference final since two thousand. You
can make if you're going for oh the members of
the title teams, like, I get that, but he's certainly
on this list. There is no debate there. Now. This
is where it just gets all sorts of maybe not fun,
but I would like to recognize Julius Randall made two
All NBA teams and one Most Improved Player with the Knicks.
Whatever you think about Julius Randall's a flawed player. What
do you think about his postseason performances? The Knicks since
two thousand have been complete and utter, by and large,
absolute ass. Julius Randall was a really good player that
helped put them on a trajectory where they got a
player like Jalen Brunson and that wound up making all
the difference. But then after this it gets even tougher.
For me, I went with Alan Houston. This was not
his peak, like he was on the team that made
the conference finals in two thousand. He dealt with some
injuries towards the tail end, but you know what, he
played enough to score a bunch. I think during this
stretch he was still like third in points scored or
whatever it is, fifth, like in the top five there.
So I went with him. I think you could easily
go with David Lee, even Jamal Crawford, Kurt Thomas, maybe
Amari Stodemayer. Are there any other names that you would
be thinking about here? This was as someone who's been
a lifelong Knicks fan, this exercise was decidedly not fun
for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tyson Chandler just because he was on that other well,
some of the good mellow teams. But you're not putting
him on there? Over?
Speaker 1: Do we pour one out for the amnesty of Chauncey Billup?
Should I put him on here?
Speaker 2: Baron Davis did play for a second for them, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, nowhere near his PROBA. Yeah, team on here too, Jefferies.
Speaker 2: Right, they had team. It's wild to me that second
and third in win shares for the Knicks during this stretch.
Did you look or will you be surprised?
Speaker 1: When I saw Mitchell Robinson? David Lee is too David Lee,
he's too that. That doesn't shock me at all, just
with the rebounds he made him all the start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a stat stuffer for sure. But Mitchell Robinson,
it feels like, how could he possibly have played enough to.
Speaker 1: He honestly should make this list just because it's that
mind melting that he's there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really weird. I think Houston. I really bumped
on Houston at first because I was like, oh, that's
he wasn't any good after two thousand, But yeah, he
did have an all Star season and he just was
still one of the best shooters in the league. So
I think he's right.
Speaker 1: Do you think that in terms of if there was
an award to be given out for most likely to
die for their franchise, I feel like Josh Hart would
probably win it, so like could that have given him
like some consideration here? I just don't. This was because
the Knicks of those I made a joke before, but
like it was true, like after two thousand, like it
got really rough to like kind of their prime Julius
Randall years for the Knicks. So I think this is
the right for But I think I'll say I think
there are at least three locks here. I would be
curious to know what Knicks fans want is the I'm
sure everyone has their opinion, but who they would want
is the fourth? Or if maybe some people would leave
off Randall altogether.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, there's plenty of space for
Eddie Curry to fit in here if someone wants to
get created. We moved to the Thunder Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook,
Any any arguments like, I don't know they Yeah, did
you ever want a title? Never won a title? Yeah,
m VPS, all NBAS, all Stars. Just defining guys on
a team that everybody us included. I think everybody was
like this, This twenty twelve Thunder gonna win, They'll be
bad four and a half titles over the next decade.
Is that the over under never got there? Did exclude Harden,
just not long enough there and he got plenty of
love with the Rockets. Sga is the only guy to
lead the Thunder to a title. So that's gonna cover that.
Didn't get any sonics on here, just I mean, Ray
Allen would have been a thought, I think if we
were gone that way, But I'm sure Rishard Lewis, let's
see Flip Murray. Who else was on there? Jerome, Jim macilvain.
So the fourth one is is the Vibes pick that
we've been alluding to for pretty much this whole thing.
It's Nick Collison. He does not belong on this list
in terms of like equality of basketball player nine and
ten games number one by a mile for the Thunder
in the century, kept getting one year deals seems to
matter a ton. He is the Eudonis Haslam thing, you know,
figure He is kind of the just Dwight pal He's
been there forever, never played for any other team, was
with Durant in Seattle and still you know, endured so
also a couple other guys. I thought about Serge of Baka,
you might give some consideration too hard and obviously Steven
Adams just for reference, Collison played more games for the
Thunder than Adams and Ibaca combined. So in terms of
like just cumulative impact, he's just the guy. He's been
there for a thousand was there for a thousand years,
and I like the idea of him up there with
three other MVPs. And it's just like, is that Nick
Collison When people are looking at the stat at the
at the mountain.
Speaker 1: Where's Paul George land on this? He's the reason they
have Shay the.
Speaker 2: Third place in MVP. I mean, he was not a
strong consideration, but I like that you mentioned him.
Speaker 1: The only It's interesting because I think the only player
that you could conceivably bounce is Nick Collison. But I
don't see a compelling case for anyone else to put,
like James Harden, I guess just but like I don't know,
he wasn't James Harden for his first four years. He
was the sixth man of the Year.
Speaker 2: But the best Thunder teams with Durant and Westbrook didn't
have Harden, you know, in terms of like team's success,
like you could go as you want to do. Gary Payton,
did he have enough good years in the two thousands,
But I don't think two and a half, three and
a half. Yeah, he wasn't. There wasn't enough.
Speaker 1: If we were gonna pick, if we're gonna venture outside
of players, Sam Presty just belongs on here, right, sure, Yeah,
that's a good one. The Orlando Magic. This one actually
felt pretty cut and dry for me. I mean, Dwight
Howard spent all of his eight years with their Land
basically is the NBA's most formidable big man. He had
three dpo wise that trail's only Rudy Gobert to Kemi
mc tumble and Ben Wallace all time, and he finished
in the top five of MVP voting four times, and
he remains the Magic's all time leader in points, rebounds,
in blocks. Prime Dwight was a hashtag problem. T Max
time in Orlando maybe a little divisive. It was brief,
didn't feature any playoff success. That's kind of the story
of like T max career though, but he still got
all NBA honors in all four of his seasons there,
and that includes joining Howard is the sole players in
franchise history with multiple First Team nods. I think that's
a pretty big deal. Nobody has played more Magic games
since two thousand grant In benjaminer Nelson, he is just like,
he's kind of what Dewdonnis has them is to Miami,
except like he actually played a lot more. He has
an All Star birth under his belt. He's a Magic
all time leader and assists and ranks in the top
five of total points and steals. And then I think
the fourth spot is where it could get a little interesting.
But like Vouch, I feel like is the face most
synonymous with those late twenty ten's Magic They're the only
other t Mac and Howard are the only other players
with multiple All Star games in a Magic jersey. And
then Vooch ranks fifth or better and basically every single
Magic counting stat during this ban I think you could.
I would listen to arguments for a couple other guys.
Maybe you have a head of Turkulu on there, like
Rischhard Lewis, JJ Reddick. I don't like Aaron Gordon. I
just don't. It doesn't feel like this felt like when
I when I put these four down, I was like no,
this is right. I maybe it's not inarguable, but who
would be like the fifth guy that you would consider?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, it kind of depends the direction
you want to go. Aaron Gordon, I don't think was
there long enough to like, if you're gonna bump vooch off,
I'm not bumping McGrady. But two scoring titles, by the way,
for McGrady thirty two a game in one of those
years Nelson, Howard McGrady are on are not debatable. Gordon
not not as long of a tenure. Probably didn't quite
reach the highest boot did You'd have to pull from
like other players on the Howard Nelson teams like Rishard Lewis, Turkuleu,
JJ Reddick like and I don't think any of those three,
just to stick with them quite get to the level
of off of bumping Vucevic, even though, like I guess
it depends if you're talking team success and like which
which actual like like like team which like which stint
in the franchise's history this century mattered the most. How
much do you want to honor that? But just like
Vuc's numbers are what they are, like he was just
super productive in ways those guys weren't.
Speaker 1: I will say I wish that Grant Hill could just
be put on this list.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again to do the coach thing. You
might just Stan Van Gundy might get consideration if that
were fair, because he was like he four out was
not a thing we talked about until he did it
with the Magic.
Speaker 1: Other thing about Vuch too is he is the reason
that the current magic Havronz Wagner. So there's that go
for him as well. Oh this this was. You think
of the Sixers and you maybe don't think it's gonna
be as as this was. But h Grant this was
pretty rough. Joel Bid to me is Alan Iverson and
Joel and Bid are the locks they want MVP. He's
in a Sixers uniform. Like there's we don't need to
get in to all that Andre Didall was probably never
in the hashtag right role during his time with the Sixers,
but he did make the two thousand and nine All
Star appearance. He had an All Defense selection, and he's
in the top five spots for basically all the major
stack categories, including leading the team and assists. Since two thousand.
I did not know where to go with number four.
I'm not gonna lie. I thought about consulting like some
people that we know with the Sixers that might want
to pick this one. I thought about Ben Simmons, I
thought about Lou Williams. I thought about Tyres Maxie, Jew Hollidant,
though about Robert Covington, James Harden and just more. I
settled on Daddius Young. He's the guy where if you
wanted cherry pick stats and there's even a graphic for
it when during his time with the Pacers, and he'll
just pop up alongside some ridiculously fun names, hall of
Fame names. So it's just like, yeah, it's not even
a Vibes pick. It's just I was unswayed, unmoved by
all the alternatives here.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just can't believe you forgot about Matt Geiger,
Like does that too? Does that early two thousands title?
Speaker 1: Run me?
Speaker 2: Nothing?
Speaker 1: That Bias Harris might have gotten me like threats in
the comment section had I picked him right?
Speaker 2: I feel like people really loved Eric Snow next to
Ben Ben Simmons is if you're going with like who's
like a defining figure? I think Simmons case gets a
lot stronger, but like everybody in Philly just can't stand him,
so you would just like there's no scenario where he gets.
Speaker 1: The money, like if you were throwing vibes completely out
of the equation where it's you know, even when you
make a Vibes pick, your other picks are well this
this person isn't a franchise pariah for the most part,
like you know what I mean. So just picking Ben
Simmons would have been like the antithesis of this exercise.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, I mean, well you Sam Hanky
would probably belong if we're talking about like defining figures
or like we throw him here all the failed process
picks that just didn't work.
Speaker 1: Kjm honestly kJ McDaniel Permanute stat Darling in.
Speaker 2: My heart, let's throw him an and like a whole
series of like that type of contract happened after the
Sixers did the weird Do.
Speaker 1: You think that he was his the way when he
played in the Sixers? It's so small of that windows
in here. Should I've just gone with the kembe mdumbo
and picked the name in that game?
Speaker 2: Well, he he's got like five teams that you could
put him. I mean, I guess some of that was
the nineties, but yeah, I don't think you get there. Well,
was he on that title team not the titled finals team?
I can't embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I think he might have been. I'll double check that now,
but I looked and it was just he didn't spend
enough time there, and I think he came in the fight,
like when they made the finals, he was there, like
he was acquired in the middle of the year, right, Yeah,
he was acquired in the middle of two thousand, two
thousand and one. That'spent all two thousand and one, two
thousand and two, and then that was it.
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, probably not. I think this. I mean
that young is he feels he is a sixer to me,
so criteria won satisfied. I think of him first as
a sixer and then the other options are just so
bad that I I only one where It's like, in
terms of importance to the franchise, he weirdly is up
there for the long reasons.
Speaker 1: That is third in total games played since two thousand
for the six Ers and and fourth in scoring and
he's just not even known as a score.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, Phoenix Sun's easy one. Actually, uh, I
took three from seven seconds or less, So you got
Steve Nash two MVPs, the catalyst for what at the
time was like an unthinkably good NBA offense, a Maristodomrashawn Marion,
like they sort of have to be there. They were
the two best players alongside Nash for the best years
of that stretch, which still unless well, the the most
recent finals team gave me some pause. But Devin Booker
is here just because he's like the life of Son.
He's the franchise's all time leading scorer, which is like
that can't be right, but it is U that gets
you one from those really good Chris Paul Bridges, you know,
eight and uh Booker teams because one he's still there too.
I think he's probably the best player on those teams.
Paul was, who did you want.
Speaker 1: To put over Booker? Did you mention that? And I
just didn't hear. No.
Speaker 2: It's just like the first three were locks from the
seven seconds or less era, and then it's just it
had to be somebody else, and I just I don't
know who you realistically consider other than Booker. I was
just kind of vamping to justify him. But like, what's
pretty this is probably my easiest set of four.
Speaker 1: I think that about Bend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was him, Goren and Zoran Dragics would
share one. They would share a bust I think us
and then could.
Speaker 1: You could you like really stretch it and try and
make a case for Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think Dia would have been the one if I were
going to just eliminate anything outside of like O four
to nine. But I think Booker's case is pretty strong.
Speaker 1: No, Bradley Beale, Kevin Duran.
Speaker 2: Durant, Booker and Ryan Dunn.
Speaker 1: Can we just put mash Bia here? Maybe? All right?
Speaker 2: Slightly more controversial, Probably the first two were easy for
the Portland Trail Blazers. That's who we're talking about. Dame Lillard,
LaMarcus Aldridge. Dame is like in a category by himself.
He's on the franchises all time, Mount rushmore like, if
you're picking one guy, it's him or Clyde Drexler, or
if you go way back, Bill Walton, but just not
long enough prime there. Aldridge was just the second best
player on the best stretch of Blazers teams, next to Dame.
Just like Aldridge is definitely one of those guys you
forget nineteen and eight for nine years, and he had
a tenth place and a seventh place MVP finish in
his last two seasons with the team, So.
Speaker 1: Just like seven, I didn't know he finished that high wild.
Speaker 2: Right, I had to double check that. CJ. McCollum is
kind of falls into the same boat. I guess, like,
never an All Star, but nineteen a game shot just
under forty percent from three for a really long time.
You know, if I think it had to be guys
from this era, I did exclude, not like for any
reason other than just like not long enough some of
the early two thousands Blazers teams where it's like Jermaine
O'Neil's there and I don't know Scotti Pippen and Bonzi
Wells and Shed and like Zach Randolph's there for a
minute that it was just such a revolving door. I mean,
there was a conference finalist there, so like if Dame
hadn't made one of those, I think maybe this gets
a little trickier. The last guy, Brandon Roy was incredible
until he wasn't. It was a good time, not a
long time, just four good, four healthy, ish seasons. Rookie
of the Year, three All Stars, two All NBA, and
the Kapper for me is like, if there's a Blazer's
moment that doesn't involve Dame this century, and isn't the
Shaq finishing a Kobe fed lob in the conference finals
against them. It's Roy's fourth quarter in against Dallas, like
he just like it was a postseason. He was kind
of not like himself anymore at that point too, and
he just goes for twenty three in the fourth I
think it was twenty three or they come back from
twenty three, and he just can't miss from anywhere, just
like an electrifying like oh my god to happen to
him too, who had already had injury issues and was like,
I don't know if this guy's gonna have anything close
to the kind of career. It looked like he was
just like a wee. I don't know it was. It
had to be there thing maybe, but I'll never forget
like the emotion of that fourth quarter for him. So
he makes it sentimentally, I think.
Speaker 1: I only have three notes. I'll got four picks. I
think Bill Walton should have made it anyway, because Bill
Walton is is forever.
Speaker 2: Sure out of there by like nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1: But still I have Young Handsome on this list already too.
I think he just belongs there. But for real, my actual,
real note, I think the these might be the right four.
If you were in to bounce somebody, I think it
would have to be CJ. For Zach Randolph. Does that
mean like, is that that? I think you give any
consideration to z bo.
Speaker 2: If any, but he's going at CJ. Randolph.
Speaker 1: He had some gnarly seasons, say that not ironically.
Speaker 2: I don't think those teams were good, and like the
fact that he's so associated with the Grizzlies, I think
it was part of it for me.
Speaker 1: He also played a total of eight playoff games with
the Blazers.
Speaker 2: Being the teams weren't good, you could like, there's a
robust list of like you could go. Nick Batoom was
there for a lot of the Dame Aldridge years, Like
even Wes Matthews was really good before the Achilles. Yeah,
McCollum is like, it's it's it's a longevity thing. I
think it was almost a decade and he was just great.
He was very good every year, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that's certainly if you go with the emotional
component two, factoring that in addition to the performance and
team success, it would be him. I think ze Bo's
the only other guy. Batum might sway me. I remember
being gutted, Remember when he like ended up on the Hornets.
How the Blazers supposed there was the West math Les
towards Achilles. That entire team basically broke.
Speaker 2: Up right that offseason? The team, well, should we just
split one of the spots and give it to Alfa,
Rukaminu and Moharkless because those are just the combo Forwards'
is like, oh, you got to get two guys like
that between Damon and Aldridge. Here we go. Okay, another uh,
pretty easy one. Actually for me, I'd be surprised if
you have.
Speaker 1: Any notes on Can I just I'd like to interject, yes,
making having Grant do the mount rushmoreson in two thousand
for the Sacramento Kings is honestly torturous. For Sacramento Kings fans,
they catch nothing but strays from you all day long, Sir.
Speaker 2: I want to meet the Kings fan that disagrees with
these four picks. I see, maybe there's Roo on one
of them, but it's so it's the Kings again. This
I feel like, did I get all these teams? I
guess you got the Knicks, but it's like there's been
a tiny pocket of success this century.
Speaker 1: I was basically, I'm just impressure. Didn't put like Carl
andry On here or something to Beatrol.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carl Andrey, Rejon Rondo, Vince Carter, h Dak rand Dawson.
He has Zach Randoff again. Absolutely. Uh So, it's I'm
just honoring the only time this team was sustainably good,
and it was a very early part of the century.
Everybody remembers I ran into the Lakers in a highly
controversial conference finals. I think that Kings team is one
of the better king one of the better teams full
stop to not win a title in this stretch we're
talking about. But it's Mike Bibbie, it's Paja Soyakovic, It's
Chris Weber, and it's Voladi Devots. Doug Christie is the
guy being left out. He was like the defensive two
that would make the occasional three on that team. But
like these four guys to me are like the Kings
players of the century. Weber's the headliner. Multiple All NBA nods,
he was like the twenty ten guy. Also one of
the best passing bigs in the league, like basically for
his whole career. Him and Devots. Devots is the one
where it's like really because he the numbers weren't all there,
but I think the way that he played specifically and
combined with like what Rick Adelman did with those teams offensively,
are like why those Kings teams were successful. The ball,
the handoff games at the elbows, the like ball movement stuff.
I mean, it's weird that the Kings with Sabonis have
had success with the hand Like maybe they just need
a handoff big that's how you win.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Maybe Devots gets demerits for some of the drafting he
did while in charge of personnel decisions, but I think
he like from a like a culture and like a
just how does this team play standpoint. I think Devots
has to be here because he felt like a defining
figure for me. So that's the four. I mean, I
don't know if you you do just have to go
into like less successful later teams and just find the
best player for alternatives like Sibonis, Brad Miller. Everybody forgets
like post post Devots Brad Miller had some very good
years with the Kings, but no team success didn't pull
from the sort of quote unquote modern era where you
could have like it's just like every guy you'd think,
like DeMarcus Cousins, like just like.
Speaker 1: Someone statistically you could look at and say maybe, like
now I'm not even saying you'd be my fifth pick,
but that's the where the numbers just don't line up
with the reputation with the kids.
Speaker 2: That's it, like the sprint if you if we did
this just with a spreadsheet and you're like points, rebounds, assists, whatever,
it's like, well, Cousins is on here, but like he
was like in the way that devots was like the
positive tone setter for like what made those Kings teams great.
Cousins was just like was the guy that was the
reason they could never be good. It's just personality wise
and leadership wise. Like did I.
Speaker 1: Wonder I'll say this, I bet you if they never
filed Michael Malone that DeMarcus Cousins is on this list
right now, that would be my whole prediction.
Speaker 2: I just I just I was in that locker room
a few times. I just don't I don't think so, Dan.
I hate to play that card, but I don't think so.
Speaker 1: So your fifth would have been like Doug Christie, how
we were any of the modern day like who, honestly, I.
Speaker 2: Think you'd I think you have to go Sabonis fifth.
Just for the productions there he was, I mean, and
Fox is gone now and Fox missed more time to
Bonis was just like unbreakable, and the other successful era
for the Kings was a couple of years ago, and
Sabonis was like the guy for that. So you know,
I think it might have been him. Oh, here we go,
let's talk about it. I have the Spurs next. I
said this, I said the Sons were the easiest one.
This is right there. So Duncan Parker Ginobili like, no notes,
it's they They're the big three on a team that
won multiple titles. Stylistically just some of the best basketball
of my life. I still I still watched the Beautiful
Game YouTube, like seven minute clip on the Spurs a
minimum of like every six months, and I just get
goosebumps every time.
Speaker 1: The ball movement on that thing is conkers.
Speaker 2: It's like it, you know, if I'm in the right mood,
I could tear up watching the Beautiful Game Spurs YouTube video.
I'll just say that about myself. Kawhi is the fourth
he you know, he comes towards the tail end of
these three guys, but like prolongs the twenty years of success.
I would say because just as the best defensive player
in the league a couple of times before he leaves,
develops into like a monster offensive player after most of
these guys are gone to the point where he's like,
he's an MVP candidate towards the very end. So he
has to be there, and the other three are are.
I mean, there's no scenario where the other three are
not on this list. I don't I don't know what
else we'd do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with your sentiments, right down to the
big beautiful game. So you might call it the the
other thing they would be. This would be the franchise
where it might be most interesting to build. What would
the second team out rushmore look like? Who is who
is then? Not like Wemby just already on it because
we never seen anything like him? Is it? Bruce Brown?
Danny Green? Who are the names that This is totally
immaterial because these are the only four picks like, who
are you coming in with as a case Over any
of these guys, I think would Danny Green have the
strongest as.
Speaker 2: A Danny Danny Green was my very first thought of like, well, yeah,
it just has to be because just the perfect, the
perfect three and D role player of that era. Just
like and it's easy I don't know maybe people listening
or watching this remember, but like he was insane defensively,
like he was one of the best like chase down
block players like ever it's just like why why are
you good at that? And he was. He could lock
up point guards and twos and.
Speaker 1: Just one titles wherever he went.
Speaker 2: Basically it's not a quinc Danny Green is like the ultimate,
like it's not a coincidence guy. Everywhere he went it
was just like you feel vital roles, so he would
be on there. Maybe you throw like Paddy Miller, I
mean Boris Diao again not there for a long time,
but was very much part of that beautiful game stuff.
David Robinson not there long enough in the two thousands,
I mean Aldridge. Aldridge was great for them when he
was there, but like not a ton of team success.
You'd probably rule out De Rozan for the same reason
I think they'd all come from like twenty fifteen and before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think these are these are the only
four picks that you can make this. Okay, we're on
to the Raptors Mount Rush Morison's two thousand. Here are
my picks, and then let's get into why I thought
they were tough. I have Vince Carter, DeMar duros, Kawhi Leonard,
and Kyle Lowry. I will not listen to any arguments
against including Kyle Lowry, who is just the greatest Raptor
of all time.
Speaker 2: He's the only one. I was like you, there's no
chance we argue about him.
Speaker 1: The other thing is I will not listen to arguments
against Kawhi Leonard being on this list. He hit one
of the biggest shots in NBA playoff history and then
was the Finals MVP on the Raptors's only title team. Like,
that's just it might speak to the franchise's dearth of
historical moments, but like you came in and did that,
You're just going to make this list. That makes the
rest of this list really tough, because I think Demarta
Rosen and Vince Carter are ultimately the right answers. Vince
Carter was like an error unto himself. Vinceadity was so
much more than his athleticism. They never had a ton
of success while he was there, but he was just
still in his heyday. Demarta Rosen wasn't on the Raptors
title team. Did get them Kawhi who helped him get
to the title, but you can't he's their leading scorer.
You can't talk about the history of the Toronto Raptors
include tomorrow. But I will say, and I believe I
was overthinking this. I initially had Pascal Siakam over Vince Carter.
I looked at it as they made the same number
of all NBA teams. To Pascal Siakam won most improved
Player and was the third most important player on a
title team, which Vince couldn't be the best or second
most important player on a title team because those Toronto
Raptors never got to that level. I ultimately think I
probably was overthinking it in the context of this discussion
because Vince Carter, there are some complicated feelings when you
look back on his time with the organization. It seems
like they've hashed a bunch of them out, But like,
do you remember Vince Carter on the rap Like that
was a point he was appointment viewing. That team was
appointment viewing because of him, and to have that type
of singular force just even from a popularity or polarization standpoint,
Pascal Siakam never became that, and so I think I
was getting to, oh, look at the spreadsheet involved with
that one, what say you?
Speaker 2: So I wholeheartedly agree with like whatever I said about
Blake Griffin and the clipper section and how it just
became like you have to you have to know, like
what did he do last night? It Carter was that
multiplied by a factor of like ten. It's just like
the things he was doing just as a dunker I
think put to I mean he is he in a
lot of senses. He is the Toronto Raptors singularly defining
figure because he was there extremely early in their existence
and was just like the only thing most people knew
about the Raptors is they have this guy named Vince Carter,
and he Dunk's really cool and is also good, but
like he is just the guy, Like I don't think
the messy exit and the like decade plus of Raptors
fans not liking him and the way that he left,
I don't think that detracts from just like exactly what
he meant and represented early in his career there. It's
just there aren't a lot of teams that have a
guy like him, where he was more of like he
was a phenomenon. Like it's just that that put this
franchise like made it relevant, even though those teams weren't
even good like that matches they'd been good that that's
a whole other thing. Like he just was singularly important.
Speaker 1: Is he part of the reason that we just remember
those jerseys as iconic too?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the reason. I mean you who know, like
Toronto seems to have drawn well, I'm sure there's a
Raptors fan that could correct me on that throughout, But
like if there's no Vince Carter, are we talking about
like the the Seattle Raptors now or like the Nashville Raptor,
Like are they there? You know, like if he doesn't
make them like like kind of a world like it's
certainly a national phenomenon, like there was nothing. I don't know,
I'm over.
Speaker 1: Attribute it to Marcus can Be.
Speaker 2: So you're you've always been a Damon stodamire guy, Tracy
mo Pete, you're a big Morris Peterson fan. Yeah, Carter
has to be there. Siakam, I get especially if you're like, well,
Raptors fans still don't like Vince Carter Siakam. Everybody was
good with It's just has to be Vince.
Speaker 1: I actually wonder though, if Raptor sans would bounce Kawhi
if they were to say Siakam or someone else has
to be in here.
Speaker 2: If you have one title and he's the sole reason
you got it, like he just you can't that shot.
Speaker 1: Do you remember watching him hit that shot against the Sixers?
How many times? Like just the balance and in like
his his crouching stance which corner. Yeah, just like I
was waring he's gonna injure his knee. I was like, dude,
get up, that's too deep.
Speaker 2: Get out of that squad. I got the Utah Jazz
next or final Western Conference team. This They've had some
weird They've had a number of fairly successful eras and
that made this hard. Rudy Gobert was the easiest pick
multiple defensive player of the years. I think from a
like driving team success standpoint, he was the best player
on the like Conley, Mitchell, Royce O'Neill. Who else is there, Bogdanovic,
Jazz teams that like did finish first in offense, a
couple like they were monsters for that stretch that group
was together. Go Bear's the representative there. Andre Kierlinko one
of the great forgotten players of the century. Injuries kind
of knocked him off, you know, fairly early. But like
the stat I came across dan he had two seasons
where he averaged over three blocks per game. Go Bear
has never been above two point seven. It was just
like how good he Kierlinka was a monster defender, had
a bunch of five by five games, like nobody was
doing that.
Speaker 1: He's not that I hate to say, he's like one
of those you know, ball players because remember when Cooper
Flagg was drawing cops to him and people were talking
about how it'shulting that was, and it very well maybe,
but it's like it's also.
Speaker 2: Not you right, Like he just like one of the
singular most disrupt like just like ruined everything for an
offense when he was out there because he was a
high steels guy. He could move his feet. He would
block every like. He was just ridiculous. So I had
to have him there. It's interesting that the Jazz have
had such like era defining defenders on their team. The
other two I packed him together, Darren Williams Carlos Boozer.
Not a ton of team success. But Williams has four
thousand assists this century. That's twice as many as any
other jazz player in that stretch. So like, even though
maybe some people think about him as a net I don't.
He was just there was a long conversation I think
for a while there of like, is Darren Williams actually
better than Chris Paul because they were in the same
draft class and it wasn't settled right away. It obviously
fell in Paul's favor pretty firmly, but he was excellent
a boozer. Boozer is the guy I could understand moving.
But he made a couple of All Star Games. He's
the only twenty ten guy that's not named you know,
that's not Carl Malone, who doesn't count here. John Stockton,
by the way, Stockton h MA alone played like a
couple of years in the two thousands, like three themselves.
What it was Yeah, so they weren't there if you
were dropping. If you're dropping someone, is it Boozer? And
are you gonna replace him with like Mitchell or somebody
like that, because I toyed with that, but I couldn't
get there.
Speaker 1: I think you could. It's also bizarre that like Gordon
Hayward wouldn't pop up in this discussion, like they have
a lot of actually these jazz teams throughout history even
recent vintage, like they have a lot of really good players.
Speaker 2: Paul Millsap, Derek Favors are real considerations there?
Speaker 1: Do you think just because or maybe I'm just not
waiting how good the teams might have been with some
of these other guys on there. But like I clearly
most remember the Rudy Gobert Donovan Mitchell era teams just
we thought they were cap slot contenders. Like That's why
I'm just wondering, should Donovan Mitchell belong here.
Speaker 2: I think statistically Mitchell doesn't have the numbers. I think
he's like eighth or ninth, maybe tenth in win shares
for the Jazz since two thousand, but he was there
for one two. I mean it's five, it's it's five
full seasons. He was an All Star for three of them,
average twenty every year. Was like the go to scorer
on on some of those really good Jazz offenses. Yeah,
I think maybe we do. Just it would have to
be Mitchell. I think if you're gonna knock Boozer off
of there, I don't know there's a case for that
for sure. I always package Boozer and d Will together
for some reason. So maybe that was it.
Speaker 1: The Jazz were a good kind of tough just because
I think they have a lot of viable options. Final
team best they're Mount Rushmore Washington Wizards is two thousand.
I have Gilberterenas, Bradley Beal, John Waller just the Locks.
Bradley Beal and John wall have like two top two
all time franchise like spots where John wall leads the
franchise and assists Bradley Beal's second all time in points.
Gilbertarenas just electric player while he was there and made
all NBA teams. Was a megastar for a lot of
his time with the Wizards. Then it gets a little dicey,
but Anton Jamison just scored a bunch of points and
also led the like this era in rebounds too. And
he's also kind of when people talk about I'm not
the greatest score of a generation, but he's just like
chilling at like number forty three all time in points scored,
like his laun jet. That's not just for the Wizards.
I think he's actually eighth. He's in the top ten
of scoring all time for the Wizards. We're just actually
pretty insane. He had a bunch of points and was
able to grab rebounds, and I think he was there
for like a good chunk of time that he's the
right pick here. I think when you get into some
of the better teams where you know and that's also
why Bradley Beal and John Wall are no brainers here
is they're just they were the cornerstones of the last
time we remember the Wizards is just a threat if
you wanted to talk about Brendan Haywood, Marchhine, Gore, Todt
like outto Porter kron Butler like when now with Larry
Hughes eating Tomas like now, we're really who else is
on here that you would need to think about? So
there's probably room for interpretation on the fourth spot, But
I don't know who I would go with if it
wasn't Anton Jamison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Jamison just has the like Again, having
watched a lot of Anton Jamison in my lifetime, he
is very much like the empty stats guy. But they
are what they are, like he I mean, this is
a guy that, like he's had back to back fifty
point games, not as a wizard, but like the buckets happened.
When Anton Jamison was in the game, he was a
highly like just just productive. I don't know how much
it meant. The guy I would think about uh is
Karan Butler because his APEX, which would have been maybe
like five. He was with the team from five oh
six to eight oh nine and got traded the following year,
so like not a not like a wasn't there for
a long time, but averaged nineteen six and like nineteen
seven and four during that stretch and made two All
Star Games and got dpo Y votes in one of those.
There was a second where Karan Butler was like, you know,
who might be one of the five best like two
way players in the league, and he you know, this
is where talk Kobe's around, like Lebron is there. But
then you'd get down the list a little bit like Karn.
Butler's actually like like like Kierlinko was your do you
know ball like defensive guy. I think Butler for a
second was the guy that you'd you'd cite as like
you know, who's actually really good that you don't know
about that? He was that guy. The numbers are nowhere
close to Jamison, so I won't fight too hard on that. Also,
the Wizards have just absolute crap to pick from for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Javal McGee, Javal McGee. We got Andre Blasch. Look, honestly,
do you think some people this would not would have
been me been like, well, Michael Jordan played two seasons
and one like we just pick him?
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean he's in the he counts it was
after two thousand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm marching gretat because without his illegal screen the screen access,
John Wall wouldn't have been as good. Yeah, I don't know.
Auto Porter wasn't there for didn't do enough. Yeah, I
think it's gotta be the first three or easy. I
think Jamison is fine at the fourth. I would advocate
like Butler.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Butler would be the toughest cut there.
All right, we did it, Grant and if you're listening
to the full episode rather than the clips that are
on Bleacher Report. We did this and what under a
buck forty five? That's and after editing, when I delete
some of the silences, we might be like under a
buck forty three look at us?
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you delete? Uh? Like some of my picks
that were bad too, and just just a I to
cover for it and and you know, replace him.
Speaker 1: Nope, Nope, there forever. That's the beauty of this podcast. Everything,
Everything is forever.
Speaker 2: Well, Dan, thank you for doing engaging in this exercise
with me. I don't know about you, but I really
enjoy when I get to go back and think about, like,
you know, who is awesome in two thousand and nine.
That's always a fun exercise. You remember guys like Kierlinko
and Coron Butler, So that's.
Speaker 1: It's fun sometimes. But then with certain franchises it's just
like the Hornets, it's just not very fun.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't fun for them either, So you guys
can commiserate. Anything else to add before we get out
of here.
Speaker 1: Now, Look, if you've this is your first time checking
us out, and you've watched or listened to the end,
why have you not subscribed already, Yeah, check out our
If this is coming out, it will come out during
our look Ahead series, so go. We're previewing every single
NBA team with a guest, so go check those out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do all the things, rate review, subscribe. If you've
seen this on YouTube, let us know who we who
you would add, and who you would exclude if you disagree.
Speaker 1: You think we have like an egregious like neither of
us just caught.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dwight, Dwight Powell's got a giant like crossairs on
on him. For math fans, I'm sure that's okay. Thanks
again everybody for listening, for watching. Tell your friends, Tell
your enemies. Shouts Franklin, lookin. Apologies, Jared