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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at

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you with the one, the only, this certified man, fabulous

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co host himself, mister Grant Hughes. No small talk. Really,

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we were here or we are here, we are gathered

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here today. That's gonna be my new thing. Grant A

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Bleacher Report asked us if we could come up with

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every NBA teams Mount Rushmore since two thousand, So we're

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dealing with just two thousand and there are a few

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franchises that really need to keep that in mind. What

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are we doing it since? Grant?

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Speaker 2: Uh, nineteen two thousand. That's two thousand and thank god,

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by the way, because it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise, I advocated for doing every team's Mount Rushmore since

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twenty twenty. That apparently just wasn't. So what are some

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of the things you put into when you were building

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the mount? Grant did the West, I did the East.

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We did not have a say in who each other selected,

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which also makes this fun, so we'll get to respond

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and react in real time. What types of things did

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you think about as you were building each team's Mount Rushmore.

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Speaker 2: I think there's just a handful of pretty sort of

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inarguable criteria. One is just you know, like player success

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and accolades, Like if a guy we'll talk about plenty

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of guys like multiple MVPs, you're just gonna be on

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the Mount Rushmore like and Kauz odds are that coincided

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with like some high level of team success. Also a

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pretty big one for me, like if you were involved

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in a big way and maybe maybe this fran maybe

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Franchise X had like a good run this century, and

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if if you were involved in that really good shot,

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that's going to get you on the Mount Rushmore. Also

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vibes there's a couple of guys I threw in here

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that like on individual merit just shouldn't be here. But

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it's like I'm trying to put myself in the position

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of that team's fan base, and it's like we'll talk

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to him when we talk about them, when we get

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to them, But it's I kind of just had a

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feeling of like this guy feels like he needs to

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be on the Mount Rushmore, even if there's no statistical

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case in a lot of situations similarity for you or

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anything else missed.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how many vibes guys I have like

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pure just vibes got where it's a Eudonnis HASLM for

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the Miami, he would be mostly a Vibes guy. Yeah.

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What I did wait a lot of the time, though,

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especially if the selections were rather how do I put

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this kindly sparse or hollow? Was if they just did

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something it was, oh, they made an All NBA team

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and they were only there for two seasons. You know

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what you made it if, like if the other options

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I thought were that league, so I did. I think

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I might have waited the individual or team accolades more

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so than you did, where it's like maybe you don't

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associate this player as much. But that's what makes this

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fun is that it's entirely subjective. And honestly, it's almost

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easier to do this if you factor in all time,

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because which we did not is just since what.

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Speaker 2: Is it, uh two thousand? I think you said to.

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Speaker 1: Two thousand, it's because there's so many defaults when you're

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doing it all time. It actually would have been easier,

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I think had we done it that way, but we

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weren't asked to do it that way, so we did not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, last thing. The other thing that I did

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think about and this made for some tough decisions. Is like,

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all things being equal, I'm gonna need the player to

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be most associated with this team, assuming they played on more,

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you know, several where it's like maybe this wasn't his

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absolute apex. Ideally it was, and it was like a

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long enough stretch, but I like for the mount Rushmore

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to to to be populated by players who when you

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think of them, you like think of them in this

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jersey for example, and like that gets really tricky for

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some of mine. But that was the last thing I

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wanted to add.

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Speaker 1: Was and the other last thing I would have, But

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I think it dovetails with what you just said. Was

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that sort of a because I needed to come up

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with a determining factor for teams that actually had deeper

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options where there's like, oh it could be six or

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seven dudes. I think I looked at, well, who did

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I think have the highest individual peak at that point,

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if like they were similar team accolades and things like that.

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That ended up being a determining factor for me in

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certain instances. Okay, are we ready to get started?

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Speaker 2: No time like the present.

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Speaker 1: We are allegedly going to go alphabetically. Let's see let's

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see how we do. We begin with the Atlanta Hawks.

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So I have these listed alphabetically. We did not rank

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any of these four teams like within these four players

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in the tier the Atlanta Hawks, Al Horford, Joe Johnson,

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Paul Millsap, and Trey Young. Al Horford just like I

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think he could have made the Celtics want if he

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really wanted to. He was just part of like some

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of the most menacing Hawks teams out there. Did everything.

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Was he a center? Was he a power forward? Do

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you remember that debate? Loved it? Joe Johnson got buckets

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for the Hawks. Trey Young already just leads the franchise

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and assists. I know he's become a divisive figure, but

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since like this quarter century or so, he clearly needs

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to be in here for me, I struggled with the

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fourth spot. I ended up giving it to Paul Millsap.

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I thought a lot about Josh Smith. He comes up

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in all these statistical searches, but none of them are

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like there's a lot of counting stats, but it's not

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like afficient. They're not affiicient counting stats. And he was

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always people thought about his untapped potential. The Hawks didn't

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experience a ton of success with him, So with Paul

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Millsap to where it's like those he was I think

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the better, more valuable player on teams that were just

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frankly better overall. And so for the Hawks al Joe Johnson,

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Paul Millsap and mister treat Yell.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right, Josh Smith was the only one,

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well to one other option. You could have just gone

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Jeff Tigue, Kyle Korver, Jamari Carroll, Millsap, and Horford and

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just put that incredible, just make a rule that you

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could have five, uh, just for that one really great

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Hawks team. Smith I think is the right guy to exclude, though,

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because like the first my first thought was like kind

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of empty numbers, and also they just didn't win very

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much when he was like a key figure there. So

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I have no notes on this one. I think you

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got it right, not that we're not that we're you

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gotta you get an a minus. I'm still in grading mindset.

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Speaker 1: The Boston Celtics were quite a bit tougher. I ended

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up settling on John Brown, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and

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Jason Tatum. I do think three of these guys are

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absolute locks. When you look at KG the stuff he

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did defensively won a title while being like showing between

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their second and third option on offense. Paul Pierce the

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truth huge for that team. Just He's he's more synonymous

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with the Celtics right now than a Jason Tatum when

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you're looking at Justin's two thousand. Jason Tatum did not

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win finals MVP, but was the best player on a

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championship team while being so young. That's actually kind of insane.

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I didn't know what to do with the last spot.

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The names I considered were Rajon Rondo, who you know

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he's tough because his peak was actually pretty high and

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it lasted longer than you think. It's just it's kind

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of conflated against everything else that kind of happened, like

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when this Celtics team was stripped apart. I also considered

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ray Allen al Horford deserves an honorable mention. Still, if

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it had Jason Tatum ever get injured, he's probably still there.

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Quite frankly, I ended up going with Jalen Brown. I

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think that's the when I look at the individual player,

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he did win a finals MVP two, so that he

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has to count for something too, So I just view

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his peak like from an individual perspective as a scorer

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and as a defender, better than anything Rondo specifically did

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when he was known for his defense and his passing.

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But I do think if you were gonna go, I'm

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curious what your thoughts would be here. If you're gonna

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go with someone else, I think it probably, but we

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has to be Rondo.

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Speaker 2: It's hard. I mean, I think it's it's ray Allen

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jumps out. I just I think you got it right.

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I'll start with that, just because this team has I

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think just the two titles this century, and you've got

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the two most important players from both of those. So

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it's just like you know, Tatum Brown Brown, the finals

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MVP is gonna be one of those where like we

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it'll be like the Iguadala Finals MVP where it's like, yeah,

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but I think we know, like Tatum just mattered more. Still,

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it's fine that he got it, like Curry mattered more,

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Egodala got it.

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Speaker 1: It's agreeious that Brown got it. Then Igodala though.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, you know, like no question, but

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I yeah, just take the one two from the two

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title teams and you're like I'm not gonna quibble, like

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ray Allen just isn't above Garnett or Pierce in terms

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of importance, and I don't think Rondo is either. And

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then Tatum I think is like indisputable brown. If you

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had to knock one off, it's probably Brown. But like,

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how are you justifying a finals MVP not being on

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the mount? You know what I mean? Like, I think

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that's the right place to land.

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Speaker 1: If you were gonna go for Vibes more smart have.

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Speaker 2: A case that's another name where it's like there's probably

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a contingent of Celtics fans that he's just he's bulletproof too,

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you know. But I don't think that would have been

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the objectively. I support Vibes picks. I want to get

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that on the record, But I don't think this was

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the time.

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Speaker 1: The Brooklyn Nets mount Rushmore since two thousand. This was interesting.

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I went with Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Jason Kidd and

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brook Lopez. I think when you look at those three,

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I mean, Kidd is just the most inarguable of the

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bunch that was the Nets. Like he led the Nets

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to the finals, that's a big deal. He's still maybe

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that's not the team he's most associated with, but he's

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probably the star that's most associated with the Nets specifically.

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Vince Carter was still like playing at or near his

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peak for a lot of his Nets tenure. Richard Jefferson

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was a fringe all star on a lot of really

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good Nets teams. And I think with brook Lopez, if

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you were looking at there were probably some better one

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year individual peaks from a Kevin Durant or a Kyrie Irving.

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James Harden was there for a hot minute in case

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anybody remembers, But like this is just like the guy

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when you're looking at the Brooklyn Nets. In terms of longevity,

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he made an all star team with them. He wasn't

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known as the defensive force, like as a rim protector

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for most of his tenure with them. That started to

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change under Kenny Atkinson a bit, but he was their

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number one option at points, so like a steady amount

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of time. And so I think, as of right now, it's, yeah,

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there's Jason Kidd, but then I think brook Lopez is

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the player that I'm since two thousand I associate with

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the Nets like second most other than Jason Kidd.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that you've got two guys here in Kid

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and Carter that like I definitely thought about. I mean,

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I'm sure you thought we'll get to Toronto, like there's

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kind of no doubt there. But like it's this is

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like encapsulating the Nets right where it's like, yeah, they've

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had some guys, but they're like not nobody's ever really

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a true net in the same you know, there's just

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been all these dead periods in the franchise history. Like

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I think the only other way that I think, I again,

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I'm on board here. I think the only tweak you

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could make is if you wanted to just honor those

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really good Beginning of the Century teams that that Kid

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and Jefferson were on, and you could go like Kenyon

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Martin and Carry Kittles or like Keith van Hornet, like

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you'd pull from that era entirely. But I I mean,

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you can't pretend that like Carry Kittles had a better

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NETS performance than Vince Carter. Like it's you know, so

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that's that's an example of like we're just kind of

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weighing apples and oranges.

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Speaker 1: In some cases, who's the guy that would be the

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one that gets knocked off? Is a Carter joke because

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I'm assuming, like brook Lopez is first in points and

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blocks in franchise history.

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Speaker 2: He's just yeah, I think maybe it's weird, but it

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might be Carter just because he's like a lock for

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another team. And I kind of factored that in sometimes

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if I was gonna make if I was gonna make it.

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Speaker 1: Well you say he was a lock, but he wasn't.

237
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He wasn't actually a lock for me.

238
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:48,600
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you did Toronto, so I don't. I don't

239
00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:50,440
know who you picked. Uh, it would have been locked

240
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,639
for me. But I'm excited for the for the debate later,

241
00:10:53,799 --> 00:10:54,879
maybe we move.

242
00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 1: On to the Charlotte Hornets. Look, guys, this is it's tough.

243
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,639
It's rough. I struggled. I talked to Grant about it.

244
00:11:02,039 --> 00:11:06,080
I settled on LaMelo Ball, Kemba Walker, Gerald Wallace, and

245
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,879
Al Jefferson. I think Kemba Walker and Jared Wallace are

246
00:11:08,879 --> 00:11:11,480
just in here. The longevity with the Hornets. Kemba making

247
00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:14,960
All NBA team with the Hornets, Al Jefferson is probably

248
00:11:15,039 --> 00:11:18,399
stands out as the most egregious. But the Hornets have

249
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,039
had so little success that if you made an All

250
00:11:21,159 --> 00:11:23,919
NBA team during this stretch as a member of the Hornets.

251
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,120
It's him and it's Kemba and that's it. And that's

252
00:11:27,159 --> 00:11:29,399
the last time, too, is when Al Jefferson was on there,

253
00:11:29,399 --> 00:11:31,200
scoring like twenty points a game or whatever it was.

254
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,080
They're in that playoff series against the Heat, actually thought

255
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,080
they were gonna win. I thought there was a chance

256
00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,440
at the Hornets might go to the conference finals. That's

257
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,600
the last time I felt like, really really good about

258
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,039
the Charlotte Hornets. And so I'm going with Al jeff

259
00:11:44,279 --> 00:11:46,679
I don't care that his tenure there was basically nil

260
00:11:46,759 --> 00:11:49,320
compared to some other dudes that I could have went with.

261
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,759
But when you start to look at the alternatives where

262
00:11:51,759 --> 00:11:54,519
it's all right, Marvin Williams, I don't hate it, but

263
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,120
like Cody Zeller, Michael kick Gilchrist, I'm absolutely not picking

264
00:11:58,159 --> 00:12:02,279
Miles Bridges, Raymond Felton, Like it's starting to get rough,

265
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,440
and I think that's even maybe some people wouldn't have

266
00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:07,639
LaMelo ball on this, but he's the most electrifying player

267
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,679
that they've had, even more so than Kemba Walker this

268
00:12:10,759 --> 00:12:13,639
quarter century. He just hasn't been healthy and it's just

269
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:15,840
when you think of someone who has the it factor

270
00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:18,720
as a star. He just plays that style. Is that

271
00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:21,320
type of polarizing player. I understand he hasn't been on

272
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,320
a lot of good Hornets teams. I think you could

273
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,320
say that about anyone, frankly who has played for the

274
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:26,720
Charlotte Hornets since two thousand.

275
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,919
Speaker 2: That's the well that that and also like they're starting

276
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,279
behind because they didn't exist for the first several years

277
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,960
of the century, so like that, and because they're an

278
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,039
expansion team initially as the Bobcats, you're just gonna be terrible.

279
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,519
So this is this is probably the worst collection of

280
00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,279
players we're gonna cover. I think maybe we can we

281
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,559
can reassess that if we get another ugly one. But

282
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:48,559
it's kind of like, what do you want him to do?

283
00:12:48,639 --> 00:12:50,799
They haven't existed for that long and they've basically never

284
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,120
been good outside of a couple of years in there.

285
00:12:53,639 --> 00:12:55,759
Speaker 1: Would you have what would be like your runner up

286
00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:57,519
for the fifth spot if you had to pick one

287
00:12:57,519 --> 00:13:01,279
for this team. I thought it was more was.

288
00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 2: Either him, like it could be Oka for it could

289
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,799
be Oka, even though it's such a short career. It

290
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,080
can't be Bridges, it can't be MKG like this speaks

291
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,600
to the issue here if you're just sorting by wind shares,

292
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,200
kid Gilchrist is seventh and like we remember him for

293
00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:16,879
one a funky shot and two being very bad for

294
00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:19,519
a number two pick, and he's he's like he's in

295
00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:21,799
consideration here. That's just like there's not a lot to

296
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,399
choose from.

297
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,919
Speaker 1: Do you think that we could just put Anthony Davis

298
00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:27,200
here as a nod to like how unfortunate that draft

299
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:28,039
was for them?

300
00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,960
Speaker 2: I think I think Charlotte fans would appreciate it, if

301
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:31,600
you want to do that.

302
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,720
Speaker 1: Next up, we have the Chicago Bulls. This one maybe

303
00:13:34,759 --> 00:13:36,240
it should have been harder, but it wasn't for me,

304
00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:40,080
Jimmy Butler, Louel Dang, Joe Kim Noah, Derek Rose. Uh.

305
00:13:40,159 --> 00:13:42,720
Derek Rose is one of the biggest what ifs in

306
00:13:42,879 --> 00:13:46,519
NBA history, and had he never he never gotten injured,

307
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,799
maybe he wins multiple MVPs. I think the Bulls are

308
00:13:48,799 --> 00:13:51,759
probably certainly just a contender for longer, maybe they even

309
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:54,480
win a title. I associate Louell Dang and Joe Kem

310
00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,320
Noah both and Noah specifically okay with Derek Rose, but

311
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,720
then also a lot post Rose injuries where those guys

312
00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:05,360
carried a heavy workload. They typified the whole blue chip

313
00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:07,639
we have more than enough to win ethos that Tom

314
00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:11,559
Thibodau espoused for like that entire era, and Jimmy Butler's

315
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,799
kind of an extension of that. There's also what if

316
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,159
two what ifs with him? But if Derreck Rose never

317
00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:18,879
gets injured, is Jimmy Butler become Jimmy Butler at some

318
00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:21,000
point and how those two co exist together? And then

319
00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:24,159
also the biggest demerit against Butler for this would be

320
00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:27,080
the Bulls actually trading him, like he could have built

321
00:14:27,159 --> 00:14:29,360
up more longevity for this franchise. But I think you

322
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,639
could argue, because of the Rose injury that he is

323
00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:34,960
the player had he stayed here that would have reached

324
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,799
the highest peak with the Bulls. That doesn't necessarily factor in,

325
00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:40,759
But when you're kind of looking at the other alternatives,

326
00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:43,279
I think he might be the one people would quibble

327
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,039
over a little bit. But are you really gonna go

328
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,120
with Kirk Hinrich, todsh Gibson or Zach Lavine or somebody

329
00:14:48,159 --> 00:14:49,559
else over him? I couldn't get there.

330
00:14:49,799 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 2: No, I couldn't either. I think the only player I

331
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,200
would consider, and I like, don't ask me who I'd

332
00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:56,960
kick off because it wouldn't be any of these is

333
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,360
like is Gibson. I just feel like he's very much

334
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,240
with the same group. This is also a situation. I

335
00:15:02,279 --> 00:15:04,799
don't know if you ran into this, we couldn't pick coaches,

336
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,320
but like Tibbs really would be someone you would consider

337
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,960
if coaches were involved, just because, like he defines that

338
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,600
highly successful era of Bulls basketball, which really is like

339
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,039
as good as it got this century, so you know,

340
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,759
and it's just it's so associated with him. I had

341
00:15:19,879 --> 00:15:22,120
a handful of situations like that. Didn't pick any coaches

342
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,639
because that's not part of this. But that's kind of

343
00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:26,360
like where my head goes with this with this group.

344
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,840
But this is the group I don't think. I don't

345
00:15:27,879 --> 00:15:28,840
think you missed anybody.

346
00:15:29,039 --> 00:15:31,159
Speaker 1: Do we shout out Aaron Brooks? You might have come

347
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:31,840
pretty close to me.

348
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,159
Speaker 2: It's been a long time since Aaron Brooks has been

349
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:36,360
shouted out, so please do.

350
00:15:36,679 --> 00:15:40,519
Speaker 1: We're onto the Cleveland Cavaliers. This was actually tough. I

351
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,000
went with Kyrie Lebron, Kevin Love, and then Zildrunis Ogaskis.

352
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,440
I think Kyrie Lebron locks no notes. You run into

353
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,519
some issues when you're trying to pick the final two slots,

354
00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:55,879
I think Anderson Beverage Out will be a popular pick.

355
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,720
I'm giving Kevin Love a bump because he played a

356
00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:01,919
major role on the two sixteen title team. Now maybe

357
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,120
you could pick Tristan Thompson for that same reason as well,

358
00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:07,840
and he was incredibly valuable to what the Cavs did

359
00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:11,600
defensively throughout that run. But like maybe during the finals,

360
00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:13,759
could you make the case that Thompson was more valuable

361
00:16:13,799 --> 00:16:17,960
than Love? Perhaps, But like wire to wire, it's still

362
00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:20,679
Kevin Love for me. So maybe the move would have been,

363
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,960
we'll just pick everyone from that twenty sixteenth title team

364
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,559
and leave off big Z. But he's like the best

365
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,440
teammate Lebron like in terms of high end teammate that

366
00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:30,799
Lebron ever played with that first time around, right, And

367
00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,320
so he was he has the tenure. Of course, the

368
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,679
longevity is there, so I felt compelled to go with

369
00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:36,240
him here.

370
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,799
Speaker 2: I think if you're gonna you have to have Kyrie

371
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,600
Lebron in Love just because they won a title. And

372
00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,960
then if you're picking one player from the like outside

373
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,720
that section of their history, it's probably I think it

374
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:51,960
is Olgaskis, But It's funny that when you think on

375
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,679
those early Lebron Cavs teams, depending on the year'd be like, oh,

376
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,240
it's probably Moe Williams, or I don't know, Daniel Gibson

377
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,240
hit a lot of really big shots. Maybe it's you

378
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,720
can really you can dig pretty deep. Just I mean,

379
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,079
that's what that does is speak to the just total

380
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,920
lack of quality around Lebron those early years that you

381
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,240
could have a conversation about some of those guys.

382
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:10,799
Speaker 1: Uh.

383
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,319
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think I think this is right. I again,

384
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,440
you win a championship with a team that does not

385
00:17:15,519 --> 00:17:18,119
have a lot of championships or like any others.

386
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,440
Speaker 1: That city was in like what almost a sixty year

387
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:21,920
champion was fifty two years or whatever.

388
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,200
Speaker 2: It was drought if anything. You could just pick whoever

389
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,880
you'd put, like Tom put Thompson on there over Ogauskas.

390
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,920
But I like the Ogauskas inclusion. I made a lot

391
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,799
of similar moves.

392
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:34,519
Speaker 1: Would you have considered any of the current era calves,

393
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,319
whether it's Donovan, Mitchell, Darius Gone or I think Mobley

394
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,880
was I'm not gonna lie Molbley was just a little

395
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,400
bit tempting, but I think I was getting ahead of

396
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,920
my steeze there where it's always coming off dpo y

397
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:44,680
the best season. But he's only been there for three

398
00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:47,039
years and they have not even advanced to a comp

399
00:17:47,319 --> 00:17:50,240
not that that's not a you know, demerit against him,

400
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:51,960
but they haven't even gotten to a conference fund right,

401
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,519
So I don't.

402
00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 2: Know, know that. Like if you told me that Mobley or

403
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,240
Donovan Mitchell had twice as many years with the team

404
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,960
as they do right now and still and like similar

405
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:05,240
levels of playoff success, I think you could talk about

406
00:18:05,279 --> 00:18:08,480
one of them over Ilgauskas. But just the length of

407
00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:11,200
ten years not enough. And then the like the heights

408
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,400
reached are not high enough.

409
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,799
Speaker 1: I think for had they been the finals team from

410
00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:16,880
the East this year, that would like against the Thunders,

411
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,359
that would have made something. I think it would have

412
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,400
had to have been Mobile or Mitchell in that even

413
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,359
though Mitchell's tenures so short, that might have made it interesting.

414
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, Oh take a break, Dan, We're on

415
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,519
to the West. I have the Dallas Mavericks, like Dirk Novitsky,

416
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,000
just what are we doing twenty one years with the

417
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:35,640
same team took less at the end. That's a ViBe's

418
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,000
pick because because he was trying to help prolong like

419
00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:40,359
the competitive window of the team, one of the greatest

420
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:41,200
scorers of all time.

421
00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:44,039
Speaker 1: Did he take less as Lebron did with the Lakers

422
00:18:44,079 --> 00:18:44,519
in the summer.

423
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,000
Speaker 2: I think he took like ten x less than Lebron's

424
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:51,759
discount with the Lakers. So and then Dirk is obvious

425
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,279
twenty eleven title best player. He's been an MVP all

426
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,319
this stuff. Jason Terry was the other guy I picked

427
00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:01,480
from that group, the twenty eleven Ish team. You could go, well,

428
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,920
we could talk about who you could go with after

429
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,759
I get through this. For Luka Doncic, like he took

430
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:09,200
him to the finals, one of the best first five

431
00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:11,759
year stretches of any NBA career in history. He's gone,

432
00:19:11,759 --> 00:19:14,240
but like it was enough, you know what I mean?

433
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:18,319
Like just the individual production. I think we're Harrison's Mount

434
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,599
Rushmore since two thousand. Well, he only puts hard workers

435
00:19:21,599 --> 00:19:23,839
on his on his Mount Rushmore, which is why Dwight

436
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:27,240
Powell would probably be on his. Uh. That's my fourth pick.

437
00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:29,759
This is a Vibes pick. He's been there forever. He's

438
00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:33,920
very much in the Eudonis Haslam territory. Only Dirk has

439
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,960
played more games as a MAV this century than Dwight Powell,

440
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,319
which is impressive because like he's not been in the

441
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,240
rotation for a good chunk of it, Like he was

442
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,960
a starter for a handful of years. He's just such

443
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,160
a staple that I did end up including him over

444
00:19:47,759 --> 00:19:50,720
certainly better player Sean Marrion has been there, like Vince

445
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:52,920
Carter has been there just for a minute, Like you

446
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,200
could go down the lit I mean, there's a lot

447
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,519
of other options. I'm trying not to slight anybody, like

448
00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:01,680
you could go back Steve Nash, Like Nash was actually

449
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:04,440
a tough one because him and Dirk, like under Don

450
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,519
Nelson before Nash goes to Phoenix, that offense was like,

451
00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:11,359
oh my god, can you believe how many threes this

452
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,839
team is shooting and how fast they're playing. Nash was

453
00:20:13,839 --> 00:20:16,920
part of that. It's just he's good spoiler. He'll be

454
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,640
there for Phoenix, and I don't know, I wanted to

455
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,400
throw Powell up there just as a nod to the

456
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,240
longevity thing.

457
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,920
Speaker 1: I think this is the first well krat we've only

458
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,599
gone through, mind, so of course I'm gonna agree with

459
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,759
all of mine. I think this is the first disagreement

460
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,440
we have because I would not I would have put

461
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,279
like Kid or Steve Nash, Yeah, Sean Marry. I mean

462
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:36,359
the kid was on the championship team too. Could you've

463
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,319
even gone with Tyson Chandler just for setting that tone.

464
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,279
Dwight Powell's certainly the vibes pick, but it's just has

465
00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:47,400
he played? Is he as good at that as your

466
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,599
Donna's HASLM would be? For like you could pick Dedonna's

467
00:20:49,599 --> 00:20:51,279
HASLM for the heat. I think people be like, you know, yeah,

468
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:53,440
that makes sense, Like does Powell will have that same

469
00:20:53,559 --> 00:20:55,160
level of influence? I don't know.

470
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 2: That's why this is a good exercise, Dan, because we're trying.

471
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,279
I'm not actively trying to court controversy.

472
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: But if it happens, So who was your I think

473
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:07,240
I probably man Nash was actually there longer than I

474
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,160
thought for the early two thousands. I might have leaned him.

475
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,079
Who would your fifth pick if been would have been

476
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:12,960
Kid or I.

477
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,559
Speaker 2: Think it's Nasher Kid. Like you can't go back as

478
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:17,839
far as like Michael Finley because he was a fair

479
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,759
amount of his best years were in the nineties. Like

480
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,680
Josh Howard is pretty high up on the wind Shares list.

481
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,680
I think like, kid does happen here? Kid was there

482
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,680
for the championship. I don't know. It just felt like

483
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,440
he started there and he was gone forever and he

484
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,759
came back, Like I guess he's probably I mean, he's

485
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:35,519
a coach now, so maybe that's I don't know if

486
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:37,640
you get bonus points for that. It would have been

487
00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:40,200
Nasher Kid probably Nash just because I'm biased.

488
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,839
Speaker 1: I think that's the right answer actually, rather than with

489
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,279
Dwight Powell. I respect a vibes picked though, yeah lives picks.

490
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,000
Salute to you and your poor decisions.

491
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,759
Speaker 2: All right, Denver Nuggets up next. Three no brainers to me. Jokic,

492
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,480
Jamal Murray Aaron Gordon. They were the three most important

493
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,240
players on the title team. Jokic's resume is as good

494
00:21:59,279 --> 00:22:02,920
as it gets in the modern era, like just compared

495
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,119
to some of the other players on other teams, like

496
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,200
you would. Murray and Gordon neither has been an All Star.

497
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,880
That's rare. But Denver doesn't have a litany of championships,

498
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,720
and the best era of the franchise outside of maybe

499
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:16,799
one other that didn't win a championship, was run by

500
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:20,920
these three guys. The fourth player is Carmelo, Like, it's

501
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,960
easy to forget. I think as I was looking this up,

502
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,559
he still has played more seasons in Denver than anywhere else.

503
00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:27,799
Even though he's so associated with the Knicks, it's just

504
00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:30,440
easy to forget that they made the playoffs every year

505
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,720
he was there. He scored a ton. He's second in

506
00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:36,759
games played for the Nuggets this century, which is wild

507
00:22:36,759 --> 00:22:39,200
to me. So it's been kind of a revolving door

508
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,720
without a ton of success. I guess outside of the

509
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,200
Yo kitchen and mellow eras any notes there does is

510
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,640
there somebody does mellow feel wrong to you? That was

511
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,839
I actually did think about maybe do I just add

512
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,279
like KCP or something.

513
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: So I guess the argument there would just be they

514
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:55,640
were on the title team.

515
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what.

516
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,759
Speaker 1: Charny Billups didn't play there long. I mean, then you're

517
00:23:00,759 --> 00:23:03,839
getting into like Nene Kenneth Reid territory.

518
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,079
Speaker 2: That all Agodala even like all the like who else

519
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,680
was on ty Lawson, like all these guys that were there.

520
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:11,319
Speaker 1: Crime ty Lawson, You remember him, Wow, he was very fast.

521
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,839
I remember. I think when people try to like talk

522
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,680
about Kamel Anthey and the Nuggets that they just overthink

523
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,160
it it's all right, Like Jokis is clearly the best

524
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,000
player in franchise history, and like Melo didn't win a title,

525
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,480
but you said at the top, they made the playoffs

526
00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:26,559
every year he scored a ton, Like that team was

527
00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:29,519
a contender at points, teams were flocking to them when

528
00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:32,200
he wanted out in twenty eleven, he's one of the

529
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,480
best nuggets of all time. Like, there's just I think

530
00:23:34,519 --> 00:23:37,200
we're far enough removed from that situation right where we

531
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,079
could just say that, and it's like, not gonna receive

532
00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:39,880
a ton of pushback.

533
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: No, I think you can. You can sign in one hand,

534
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,279
you can hold the truth that like Mellow, maybe wasn't

535
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:47,680
good enough to be the best player on a championship team,

536
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:53,079
but like nobody else in consideration for this qualifies as that.

537
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,359
So you know, what are we doing?

538
00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:57,039
Speaker 1: Onto the Detroit Pistons. They are my team. I went

539
00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:59,359
into this thinking I'm probably gonna pick everyone from that

540
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,880
two thousand and four championship team, but I had to

541
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,519
cut one, so I went with Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton,

542
00:24:05,839 --> 00:24:09,039
Tayshawn Prince, and Ben Wallace, which then of course leaves

543
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:12,720
out Rashid Wallace. I just Ben Wallace is a lock

544
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:16,440
to me, like all those DPO wise as a generational defender.

545
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,160
I look at Chauncey Billups is also a lock, kind

546
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,400
of the driving force of all like him and Rip

547
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,200
Hamilton with a driving forces of a team's offense that

548
00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:26,960
wasn't known for its offense. But mister big shot Chauncey

549
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,799
Billps has to be in there. Rip Hamilton just scored

550
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,039
a ton for this team, and the fact that he

551
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,359
was scoring so much and played so much on a

552
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,240
team that was known for its defense when maybe that

553
00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:41,119
wasn't his strong suit. Tayshawn Prince versus Rashid Wallace gets

554
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,160
kind of interesting, but I think the longevity wins out.

555
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,759
Tayshon Prince has played one hundred and thirty seven more

556
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:49,640
games than anyone else in a Piston's uniform since two thousand. Yeah,

557
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,440
and he just ranks in the top five of all

558
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,559
the major counting stats. I actually think that if he

559
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,559
played today, he would probably be even more appreciated than

560
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,279
he was back then. Like this is someone who probably

561
00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:03,039
would have gotten like a couple two Max contract cycles.

562
00:25:03,039 --> 00:25:06,039
Speaker 2: It's like a Jaden McDaniels, but maybe better type of guy.

563
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,599
Speaker 1: Right, definitely certainly a better playmaker. Yeah, yeah, so I

564
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,279
this is the four I settled on. Do you have

565
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:12,160
any qualms?

566
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:15,279
Speaker 2: I the only one would have been Rashid, But you

567
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:19,720
can't like and Princes probably you cannot. Hamilton, Billups and

568
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,400
Wallace are just like they're there, you can't move them.

569
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,079
The sheer volume of Prince over Wallace make I think

570
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,359
Wallace is probably a better player, like just you know,

571
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,680
night to night, but I think Prince his impact overall

572
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:33,359
is just higher.

573
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,839
Speaker 1: And the other thing here too is like I didn't

574
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:39,640
give much consideration to Andre Drummond. Maybe recency buys would

575
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,640
be like I think we're just so excited about the

576
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,119
Pistons that Kay Cunningham can get an honorable mention, but

577
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,319
like you can't touch no, the two thousand and four

578
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,599
title team. It wouldn't have just.

579
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: Conference finals like how many eight years in a row?

580
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:52,640
Like something like six in a row, four like several

581
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,799
multiple finals like what there's They're just that is the

582
00:25:56,839 --> 00:25:59,440
era of Detroit Pistons basketball for the last twenty five

583
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,359
plus years since like the early nineties. Here we go.

584
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,240
This was the easiest one, I think for me for

585
00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:09,359
obvious reasons. But also just because like this franchise was

586
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,359
absolute trash going back before the two thousands, like really

587
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,799
from ninety four on until you get the we believe

588
00:26:17,839 --> 00:26:19,880
bump in there. We could talk about like maybe do

589
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,160
you throw Baron Davis on there as an honorable mention?

590
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:25,920
Probably he'd be the guy, but it's Steph clay Draymond Igodala.

591
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,000
You could argue Kevon Looney, I guess, but Iguodala I

592
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,960
credit him for one, like I don't know, there's something

593
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,200
valuable to me about him being like I see what's

594
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,960
happening there, and I would like to go to there,

595
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,680
and then also I'll come off the bench, and it

596
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,200
sets a culture. He does have the Finals MVP, the

597
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:48,440
dubious Finals MVP. He was just like the perfect missing

598
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,839
piece there. And then there's just no other meaningful team

599
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,200
success and there's no other players with career act like histories.

600
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,000
There's no other MVPs, there's very few All Stars, there's

601
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,440
very few All NBA's, there's no other DPSE like this.

602
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,920
This one just kind of set itself.

603
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: To me, you didn't give any like serious thought to

604
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,119
two time Finals MVP Kevin Durant, that didn't.

605
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,319
Speaker 2: Know they won one before he was there, and they

606
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,720
won one after and the.

607
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: Three Cours one after.

608
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,759
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe then I think that the Bookend twenty two

609
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,839
title really did just make it so it's like it's

610
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,720
these four guys, and then Durant exists in his own

611
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,720
kind of area, and then you have like Looney Livingston, Uh,

612
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,720
who else you know like that?

613
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:31,839
Speaker 1: That?

614
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, throw hairs and Barns on there. Why not

615
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,359
like that classic guys? But if you wanted to go

616
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,000
back further, then you have to talk about like Baron Davis,

617
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,839
Steven Jackson, like the monte Ellis of it all, like

618
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,319
were that those guys just aren't close to the same level.

619
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,359
Houston up next. For me, I did struggle with this

620
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,759
one as I'm looking back at it. So James Harden

621
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,519
one of the single best offensive players of all time.

622
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:00,240
His absolute peak years were here. They just like number

623
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:03,319
one with the bullet Yeah, easily forgotten, but was just

624
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,599
an All Star every season he was healthy. The All

625
00:28:06,599 --> 00:28:09,079
Star votes from China helped, but like the production was

626
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,240
absolutely there. He's another guy that I think if we

627
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,759
were playing today, like Snekily might be more valuable, just

628
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:17,880
because he would have been a three point shooter, I

629
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,640
have no doubt of it. And if Brook Lopez can

630
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,440
survive and be a great defensive big man like he

631
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,559
could have, the other two were tough. I went with

632
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,240
Clint Capella, who feels like a just not quite good

633
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:33,279
enough of a player. But if you're looking for the

634
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,279
guy that was there with Harden through some of those

635
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,720
like high fifties win totals, some of those conference finals trips,

636
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,079
some of those like if not for the Warriors, these

637
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,720
Rockets are in a couple finals, Capella is kind of

638
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:48,039
the second guy that's there the whole time, so and

639
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:52,640
easy to forget. Now, this ridiculous offensive rebounder could would

640
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,839
catch all the hardened lobs like just was kind of

641
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:58,240
perfect for that team. Shane Battier is my last one

642
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,039
little bit of vibes. Also the like, as I'm looking,

643
00:29:01,119 --> 00:29:05,920
he's sixth in wind shares on the Rockets since two thousand,

644
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,200
so the numbers are there, but he was like, he's

645
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,519
the no stats all star. He's the guy that shows

646
00:29:11,559 --> 00:29:14,200
up in the Michael Lewis article that puts Darryl Mory

647
00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:18,000
on the map as the analytics friendly like GM and

648
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,400
and so like in terms of his impact I think

649
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:22,839
because you still associate like with the Rockets, with the

650
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,480
number crunching and all this Mory stuff and Battier like

651
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,519
is the poster boy for that. So I threw him

652
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,519
on there, omitting Tracy McGrady, but which is deeply painful.

653
00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:34,440
He's one of my favorite players of the century. But

654
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,559
you're gonna get him on there for Orlando, I have faith.

655
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,839
Speaker 1: Right, but we didn't have this rule where you couldn't

656
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,279
pick a player for no team, and so that's I'm

657
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:45,680
staring at this one. And I don't know, by the way,

658
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,599
shout out to Clincapella. As we were putting together images

659
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,039
for this, some of the best action shots in the business.

660
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:52,960
I apologize, Clinton, I didn't know about your name of

661
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,079
the action shots that there were just of you. So

662
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,799
I don't know how you leave off Tracy McGrady here.

663
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,680
And the thing that I'm harping on, and maybe this

664
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:04,400
is an simplification, here's every Rockets player in franchise history to

665
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,119
make multiple All NBA teams, Hakeem Harden, Yao, Moses Malone,

666
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,759
and t mac So he made three All NBA teams

667
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:14,759
with I know his prime feels like or his prime

668
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:16,759
and tenure all feel like they were cut short with

669
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,799
basically every single team that he was on, specifically the Raptors,

670
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:22,880
the Magic and the Rockets. But I don't know how

671
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,759
he doesn't make like even because you have two guys

672
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:28,440
that I think could be qualified as either vibes or

673
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,839
strictly tenure guys that don't have the highest peaks. I

674
00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:33,440
think I would have definitely put t mac on here,

675
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,839
probably in place of Battier, but maybe in place of Capella.

676
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,119
Speaker 2: I think I would kick Capella just because I persuaded

677
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,920
myself more with the Batty argument. But here's I take

678
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,160
your point on McGrady and look like I was always

679
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,160
a mcgrady's better than Kobe guy. I don't know if

680
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,920
that's out there, but like that was. That was my

681
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,039
hot take in the early two thousands. Really was firm

682
00:30:52,079 --> 00:30:56,000
in that McGrady played basically three good seasons with Houston

683
00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:58,640
because he was seventy eight games that was awesome. In

684
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,119
his debut four oh five of seventh in MVP, he

685
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,559
plays forty seven. The next year, is not all NBA

686
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,720
plays seventy one. The following year, Grete six and the

687
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:09,799
MVP eighth and MVP after that, and then the injuries coming.

688
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:12,759
He's cooked. So it's like I was looking at three

689
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:16,119
good seasons, which I don't know how you weigh that

690
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,400
against like Battier's gotten more and like the Rockets didn't.

691
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,319
They didn't win a title, they weren't like super dangerous.

692
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,799
I just kind of I mean, they were pretty good.

693
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:26,759
I guess, I don't know. I think you have a

694
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:27,920
good argument for McGrady.

695
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: But the other thing, too, this was fun is just

696
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,279
I forget because I always associate Yeah with being injured.

697
00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:35,640
He just five all NBA teams while he's with Yes

698
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,359
in no.

699
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,759
Speaker 2: I mean, he's the like one of the forgotten greats

700
00:31:38,799 --> 00:31:41,880
of the early in mid two thousands. I think ultimately

701
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,200
McGrady is just like the best. McGrady is a magic McGrady,

702
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,880
and it's like not close. He was so ridiculously good

703
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,079
for them, and so that kind of chain dimmed my

704
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,839
perception of him as a rocket. I don't think of

705
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:53,720
him as a rocket.

706
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,559
Speaker 1: Was there anyone like h Steve Frantis or Louis Scola

707
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,920
or even Chris Paul? Because the heights that the Rockets

708
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:02,079
each like as the foremost rival of the Warriors that

709
00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:04,119
you considered or yeah really.

710
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:08,119
Speaker 2: And no to Paul, I just associate Francis and like

711
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,839
Katino Mobley as another guy nowhere near the resume. But

712
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:12,839
like those guys were just mostly on not very good

713
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,000
Rockets team and then like Francis was electrifying, but like

714
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:19,319
he just actually wasn't objectively that good because he couldn't shoot.

715
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:22,160
He didn like he just he for a minute there,

716
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,440
he was kind of the centerpiece of that team. But

717
00:32:25,319 --> 00:32:27,160
I don't I don't think Francis was a real driver

718
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:27,720
of winning.

719
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,599
Speaker 1: Onto the Indiana Pacers mount Rushmore since two thousand, I

720
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:36,400
have Paul, George Tyres, Haliburton, Jermaine O'Neill, Miles Turner. I

721
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,680
think this might be the single team that I'm least

722
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,160
confident in because they have so many good options. I

723
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,440
think right off, rip I didn't put Reggie Miller on

724
00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:49,680
here because we didn't have post two thousand, Like we

725
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,160
didn't have the best version of Reggie Miller. He still

726
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,480
did play. I think it was like five seasons logged

727
00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:55,759
with the Pacers, So if you want to make the

728
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,799
case that he's the franchise icon, he was still serviceable

729
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:00,720
for a lot of that time. So he's a combination

730
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:02,680
of a vibes pick and icon and still was an

731
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,279
effective player. I totally get that. I think Paul George

732
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,640
those Pacers teams were the primary threat to the Heatles

733
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,319
error Miami team with Lebron d Wade and Bosh Tyres.

734
00:33:14,319 --> 00:33:17,400
Alberton just led the Pacers to consecutive Eastern Conference Finals

735
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,200
and then the NBA Finals. I don't know how you

736
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,400
don't put him on here, so he was clear. Him

737
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,079
and Paul George were the clear locks. Miles Turner has

738
00:33:25,119 --> 00:33:27,599
the longevity bump. I think you could make it. Maybe

739
00:33:27,599 --> 00:33:30,079
that's the guy you want to bump for Reggie Miller,

740
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,559
or maybe that's Jermaine O'Neil. I also think what Jermaine

741
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:35,599
O'Neil did with the Pacers kind of goes underappreciated, like

742
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,240
that dude was just a versatile offensive monster and the

743
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,359
heights that he reached with Indiana, I mean, my god,

744
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:46,559
but this team is you could go a number of

745
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,400
different directions here, and I think I don't know how

746
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,720
to square away the Miles Turner stuff. He's never been

747
00:33:52,039 --> 00:33:54,000
an All Star, but at the same time, like he

748
00:33:54,119 --> 00:33:56,400
was there for a decade. He's like he gets a

749
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,880
bump too, because he survived. He was there for how

750
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,839
many years, and he survived Trey rumors for the same

751
00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:04,359
amount of years. He just kept coming back set the

752
00:34:04,599 --> 00:34:07,480
like stage or not the stage, but was a tone

753
00:34:07,519 --> 00:34:10,280
setter when it comes to those floor spacing, rim protector archetypes.

754
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,519
And he expanded his game a little bit. But he's

755
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:15,000
the guy, even though we couldn't rebound as well, even

756
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:16,559
though there were some matchups we saw it in this

757
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:20,360
year's finals that weren't great for him. That was the

758
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,159
big man, the type of big man that everybody wanted,

759
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,679
and he's just been that for so long, and so

760
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:27,960
this is who I settled on. But like I said,

761
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,760
aside from Paul George and Tyrese Haliburt, and I don't

762
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,199
feel great about.

763
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 2: This one, no, I think. So Turner is also first

764
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,199
in wind shares in the franchise for the century, so

765
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,000
like any ties probably should be broken in his favor

766
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:44,000
for that reason, if you just go with the numbers,

767
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,480
like Danny Granger is someone that a lot of people

768
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,480
would clamor for I think, but I sort of think

769
00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:53,400
you can't. You need Paul George and you can't really

770
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,320
take two players from like that era, even though George

771
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,719
kind of ascended as Granger was falling off. So like,

772
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,440
George is the right guy from that because it's not

773
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,039
gonna be Hibbert, it's not gonna be George Hill, David West.

774
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:06,519
Those are Lance Stevens of Lance Stevenson might have been

775
00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,920
a Vibes pick for me. His bust would be blowing

776
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,719
air on the on the mountain, I think would be good.

777
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,199
And then O'Neill is the right pick from the very

778
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,800
early two thousands Pacers because it wouldn't be our test.

779
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,679
I don't think Miller was kind of there, But like,

780
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,800
I think you're right to exclude Miller. He's just a

781
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:25,920
he's a twenty he's a pre two thousands kind of guy.

782
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,920
So I'm finding myself agreeing with your picks a lot

783
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,400
more than you're agreeing with mine. So the either your

784
00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:33,400
argumentative or you did a better job than me.

785
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: I'm very argumentative. And also the thing that's kind of

786
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,440
swayed me with I felt better about picking O'Neal was

787
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,039
he is tied with it's Reggie Miller. And who's the

788
00:35:42,039 --> 00:35:44,000
other guy from the Pacers, Paul George. Those are the

789
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,960
three guys who've made the most all NBA teams if

790
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,039
each made three apiece in a Pacers jersey, And so

791
00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:50,079
that made me feel better, and it was also kind

792
00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:52,920
of a reminder like, oh damn, Jermaine O'Neill was just

793
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,760
really freaking good and he's third all time in franchise

794
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,000
history and points no one's gonna catch Reggie Miller, I know,

795
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,559
but that that one was tough because he's on the

796
00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:02,480
Pacers through two thousand and four, two thousand and five,

797
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:04,920
and it's do you think that I could have justified

798
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,599
just being like Reggie instead of like is it Turner?

799
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:09,079
Is there only who's the one that gets bumped?

800
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: Well, like, there's no if you're picking one guy in

801
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,920
franchise history, it's just Miller, right, Like, but but that's

802
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,679
just not what this is, you know. I think I

803
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:19,599
think you have to make the cuts where you have

804
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:23,000
to and Miller, just like post two thousand, Reggie Miller

805
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:25,159
was not the best version of Reggie Miller either, Like

806
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,320
he was still good for a chunk of that, but

807
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,679
you know, you're not putting that player, and like what

808
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,320
he accomplished on on Row, if they'd won a title,

809
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,159
then it would have to be even if he was

810
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:39,840
like towards the end, that's all. But that's all, that's

811
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,400
the bar, all right. I've got the Clippers, Uh, the

812
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,039
first three spots, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, Deondre Jordan the

813
00:36:46,039 --> 00:36:48,480
Clippers as much as I've had a couple of these teams,

814
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,039
but it's like they had zero success outside of one

815
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:54,039
Elton brand led run. I did consider him from the

816
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,400
like six oh seven I think was the year, but

817
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,480
couldn't quite get there. Not a long enough prime, not

818
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,519
enough team success Paul. Their debate to me is really

819
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,159
like if you had to pick the first spot, is

820
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:08,559
it Paul or is it Griffin? And the case for

821
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:11,760
Paul is like he just made everything work, Like DeAndre

822
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,960
Jordan led the league in effective field goal percentage like

823
00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,199
every year from like twelve to seventeen, and it's because

824
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,679
he's catching lobs, Like that's Chris. Paul made that happen.

825
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,119
But I kept finding myself thinking, like when I think

826
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,760
of lob City, it's always Blake. Griffin is first to mind,

827
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,480
just because of like the right he's kind of the

828
00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:32,320
one of the first viral like superstars where it's just

829
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,159
like the next morning, if this is not viral, but

830
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:37,760
it's like, what, who did he dunk on last night?

831
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,880
Or like every Clippers game was like you were holding

832
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,280
your breath, you know, in those early years, just waiting

833
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,280
for a breakaway. So he's like he's the Vibes's associated pick,

834
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,920
but Chris Paul is just like he was the best

835
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,800
player on that team. The fourth one was hard because

836
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,719
I was just gonna pick from that era again, from

837
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,480
the Lob City era. JJ Reddick wasn't there for as

838
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,639
long as you think he was. And then after after

839
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:01,559
I kind of settled on that, it just had to

840
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:03,679
be Jamal Crawford won a couple six Man of the

841
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,960
Years and the image of him just coming off the

842
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,840
bench because Doc Rivers always did like the five in

843
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,280
five out subs, and Crawford would just come in and

844
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,599
cook for six minutes and not pass, and it's just

845
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:18,360
like that. That's the other enduring image of those Clippers

846
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,360
teams is when all the starter sat, Crawford would come

847
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,280
in and just get you sixteen points. So that that

848
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,480
was the last spot. But I'm open to debate on

849
00:38:25,519 --> 00:38:25,880
that one.

850
00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: Did you give any sort of consideration to of Eata zubots.

851
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 2: If he had like two more years as good as

852
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,079
last season, and maybe the Clippers advanced a little farther. Mate,

853
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,840
I would have thought about it, but then it's like, well,

854
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,079
if that's happening, then either Leonard or or like James

855
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:47,960
Harden is also having more good years, and that's I

856
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,159
didn't We'll just to say I didn't think very hard

857
00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:54,199
about Leonard or Harden. Just not long enough, not healthy enough,

858
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,480
not enough like high end success for me.

859
00:38:57,039 --> 00:39:00,840
Speaker 1: I just was interested. Zubots is seventh all time Equippers

860
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,320
wind shares. I know the bars of course low like.

861
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,159
Speaker 2: After he's fifth in the date cutoff that we're using too,

862
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,280
so like certainly if you're just going by the numbers,

863
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,320
he's he's your honorable mention guy.

864
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:13,519
Speaker 1: I think you got it right, just because there it's

865
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:16,320
hard to find that like fourth player who's just associated

866
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,519
with the Clippers. Yeah, I don't I don't even know

867
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:21,480
who that. I guess it would be Zoobots would be

868
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:23,719
my pick. But you mentioned Reddick is kind of associated

869
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,159
with that error, it's kind of yeah, it's it's kind

870
00:39:26,159 --> 00:39:28,880
of process of elimination like you did with certain title teams,

871
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,360
except this just wasn't a title team. You're just doing

872
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,039
it by that era.

873
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,679
Speaker 2: So I'll start with I did not include Lebron James

874
00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:36,920
on the Lakers mount Rushmore.

875
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:38,519
Speaker 1: I am outraged.

876
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, this team has a lot of rings,

877
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,280
and Lebron got him one, and that's more than several

878
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,079
other teams we're gonna talk about. Uh, but I just

879
00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:51,239
like everybody here that got multiple and and mattered a

880
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,760
lot in those like and Lebron's been there a long time.

881
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:58,159
There's absolutely a case for Lebron. He's gonna make two others,

882
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:04,519
so he's good. Uh, Kobe, no question, no doubt. One

883
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:07,599
of those rings I think counts before. I think I

884
00:40:07,639 --> 00:40:10,159
think it was like the ninety nine two thousand season,

885
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,719
So that doesn't factor in here. Well, he's still has four.

886
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,280
Shack was the best player on the first three peat

887
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,480
and so we're gonna throw him up there. Pau Gasol

888
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,079
was the key running mate on the last two Lakers

889
00:40:23,079 --> 00:40:26,599
titles with Kobe. I just like the numbers are like

890
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,159
good enough. He seventeen point seven points, nine point nine boards,

891
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:32,000
three and a half assists, one point four blocks from

892
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,320
eight to fourteen for pow. Nobody else in the league had.

893
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,519
We're cherry picking, admitted nobody else in the league averaged

894
00:40:39,559 --> 00:40:42,320
those numbers from during that stretch of the season, So Powe,

895
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:47,840
grossly underrated historically was an awesome, like overqualified second option

896
00:40:48,559 --> 00:40:51,119
on a title team. Derek Fisher is the last one.

897
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,639
No case like in terms of star quality or like

898
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,960
individual accolades. But he's just there for all the titles.

899
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,039
He's starts on all the title teams, and as a

900
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:04,840
big leader I got I want to get it right.

901
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:07,159
I don't have the stat in front of me, but

902
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,480
like games minutes, like all that stuff, he's way up

903
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:15,639
there for this century and in terms of yeah, he

904
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:17,559
doesn't have a case otherwise. So like if you want

905
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:23,000
Anthony Davis, if you want lamar odom, God, godspeed. But

906
00:41:23,039 --> 00:41:25,280
I'm going with the guy that was there for five titles,

907
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,800
four of which actually count in the sample we're considering.

908
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: I think I could argue this one, and I think

909
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,000
I'm about to just like, first of all, I haven't

910
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,719
has it kind of said it in on you that

911
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,639
there's a chance. I don't know if it's gonna happen

912
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:39,159
next season the season after, but Lebron might spend more

913
00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:42,000
consecutive years with the Lakers than any other team in

914
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,360
his career in that bizarre.

915
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:46,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it doesn't feel right. It feels

916
00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:47,320
like that can't be possible.

917
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,519
Speaker 1: But like only one title, but he's also second during

918
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:55,119
this period in points in assists that he's like top

919
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:57,480
three in steals or box or whatever it might be.

920
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,519
I would have a tough time leaving that off in

921
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:01,480
favor of someone in Derek Fisher, who I view is

922
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,000
more of a glue guy. But I get the ring count.

923
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,559
Not to boil it down to rings, yeah, I get it,

924
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,840
But it's also because Lebron. To me, he's no worse

925
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,760
than the second greatest player of all time. He's probably

926
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,079
my goat. He spent like we're not still in Lebron's prime.

927
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:19,360
We've seen better years from Lebron. But just like I

928
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,639
just don't know how you leave, he keeps coming up

929
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:23,760
and all. It just it really comes down to you,

930
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,159
for spent more time there wins rings. And I'm not

931
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,840
even diminishing that because that's a really strong case. It

932
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,519
just feels so weird not having Lebron James on this list.

933
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,159
Speaker 2: You made me think of another criteria that I should

934
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:37,480
have mentioned at the top, and that is like I'm

935
00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:39,760
trying to think of it from a fan perspective in

936
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,480
some sense in that like who is beloved? You know,

937
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:48,519
like who who among fans like just like is beloved

938
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:51,599
is like an iconic player is like someone that you

939
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:53,960
know they associate with like the best times and like,

940
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,280
you know, like who's kind of legendary and like it.

941
00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,639
I know, like some of the Lakers fans I know,

942
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,800
likeor of don't ignowl like Lebron's not their guy. They're like,

943
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:05,719
I'm a Kobe guy. I love the Lakers. Lebron is

944
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,599
just sort of here. I don't feel like Lebron has

945
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:12,039
that same appeal to like die hard Lakers fans. I'm

946
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:13,920
sure they're happy to have him and have been glad

947
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,679
that he's been maker as long as he has. But

948
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,159
you know what I mean, Like I think Fisher is

949
00:43:18,199 --> 00:43:20,599
like when you're sitting there, like god, you remember the

950
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:22,920
good like oh he was, you know, like having that

951
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,639
fan conversation. I do think Fisher holds a different type

952
00:43:26,639 --> 00:43:30,760
of place in Lakers fans minds and hearts than Lebron does.

953
00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:33,119
Maybe that's not fair to Lebron, but that that was

954
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:35,280
a factor and will continue to be in some of

955
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:35,880
my picks.

956
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:38,039
Speaker 1: I think the timing of you doing this is probably

957
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:40,559
perfect because the sentiment on Lebron might be lower now

958
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:42,880
that Luca is there, so people might have an easier

959
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,599
time dismissing and the other thing. I don't assign value

960
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:48,960
to this because I think winning a championship under any

961
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,079
circumstance that any season is hard. I wonder how much

962
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:54,639
whether it's Lakers fans or certainly other just general fans

963
00:43:54,639 --> 00:43:57,039
of the NBA, other teams fans are gonna ding him

964
00:43:57,119 --> 00:43:59,320
to say, well, he won the Bubble Championship, that's not

965
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,599
a real champion. I think that is just one of

966
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:04,360
the all time dumbest arguments that have ever been made

967
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:08,039
in the NBAH fear. But I don't have a huge

968
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:10,239
issue with this. It's just weird to not have Lebron

969
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,800
there when he's actually been with the Lakers for very

970
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,360
like the better part of a decade. Now.

971
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,880
Speaker 2: I don't know, make have make people like you more

972
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,519
or win more championships. What can I tell you another

973
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:22,960
team that gives us a chance to just celebrate a

974
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,760
bygone era. I kind of clippers this where I just like,

975
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,360
what's the best what era of Memphis Grizzlies basketball did

976
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,079
fans love the most, And it's like unquestionably GrITT and

977
00:44:33,079 --> 00:44:37,360
grind So Marc Gasol easy pick Defensive Player of the Year,

978
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,440
Mike Conley just the steadiest, steady starting point guard of

979
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,880
all time, was great for them, zero technical fouls. And

980
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,480
then you have Zach Randolph and Tony Allen First Team

981
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,679
All Defense Tony Allen Zach Randolph just the meanest right shoulder,

982
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,599
has no moves, but was incredible. The two mean guys

983
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:00,559
in between Gasol and and Conley, Like Allen is the

984
00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:03,679
guy I think statistically you'd say, like, I don't know

985
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,400
about that, but so if you take him off, you

986
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,719
have to think about Paw Gasol. But he predates this

987
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,199
and is like actually the way that they get Mark Gasol.

988
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,920
Uh So, like that's I don't know what you do

989
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,960
with that. And I gave him. I gave him the

990
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,320
the Lakers rushmore so I felt like he wouldn't be

991
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,400
too slighted there. Do you think Memphis fans are like

992
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:26,719
this is the four or is there somebody else that like,

993
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,480
is it Battier? Is it like Mike Miler?

994
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,039
Speaker 1: I thought about Battier and Miller. I also just wondered,

995
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:35,800
if you're this is a combination of vibes and just electricity,

996
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,119
John Morant is probably gonna make some of them because

997
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:40,880
he's the one that kind of made the Grizzly like

998
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,920
the grit and grind. Grizzlies were not this national draw.

999
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,360
You had to be a real sicko to want to

1000
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,639
watch that Grizzlies team. Nobody wanted to play them. Let

1001
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,159
me be clear, they were respected as hell throughout the league.

1002
00:45:51,559 --> 00:45:54,199
And so that's why I kind of thought about John Morant.

1003
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:57,480
I think these are the right picks because if you're gonna, like, really,

1004
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:00,280
if you're gonna go with vibes like that, and it's

1005
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,320
Tony Allen for sure, but if you're saying now, there

1006
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,679
needs to be a stronger statistical case in John Moran's

1007
00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:07,400
peak was certainly higher. He's an All NBA type player.

1008
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,679
I think that's probably the pick you have to because

1009
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,000
what is it going to be Rudy Gay? I mean right, like,

1010
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,039
because if you go Rudy Gay, Shane Batty or Mike

1011
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:17,000
Miller over Tony Allen, doesn't that just get all kinds

1012
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:17,760
of weird?

1013
00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: Well, and also, like, what do you think about the

1014
00:46:20,039 --> 00:46:23,000
idea that if we had done this too, like two

1015
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:26,039
full years ago, I think Moran's chances would have been better,

1016
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,840
because the last two years have not been favorable for him,

1017
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,719
I think. But I do take your point that, like

1018
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,159
I think we've talked to Keith Parrish for the look

1019
00:46:33,199 --> 00:46:36,480
ahead maybe last year, and I think he made the

1020
00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:39,000
point that like John Moran is the single most celebrated

1021
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,599
Memphis athlete like ever, He's just like his popularity is

1022
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:44,960
like impossible to overstate. I wonder if that's still true

1023
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,599
to the same degree. But I do think if we've

1024
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,239
done this in twenty twenty three or twenty twenty two,

1025
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,880
Moran probably would have fared better.

1026
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like to know, Grizzlies fans, let us know

1027
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:56,440
the comments down there to see who you would have

1028
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,719
picked as the mount right, because it does feel like

1029
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,519
there are three on a sailable locks here, Like if

1030
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,079
you don't have I guess you could argue Mike Conley

1031
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,280
not getting a technical is that just evidence of a

1032
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,559
lack of passion? He doesn't he care enough? Who who

1033
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,400
cares less Mike Conley or Nicolokic about when he gets

1034
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,760
hard to say, grant that's so, I think those three

1035
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,119
are clear locks, just Zebo, Conley and Gasol. You could

1036
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:21,079
probably quibble over Allen, but does it it has to

1037
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:23,000
be I know, I just actually this, but we didn't really

1038
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,159
settle on an answer. It has to be Joh if

1039
00:47:25,159 --> 00:47:27,519
it's not Allen to me because Allen would be the

1040
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:30,400
symbol of what like more so than a Batier than

1041
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,559
a Miller. So if you're going with someone who isn't him,

1042
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,119
it should be just the bigger name, the glitzier face.

1043
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:37,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.

1044
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,800
Speaker 1: We are onto the Miami Heat mount rushmore since two thousand.

1045
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,480
This was actually kind of hard. Lebron and d Wade

1046
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,039
are just in the d Wade's just the best he

1047
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:48,159
player in franchise history done. Lebron only there for four years.

1048
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:51,280
Guess what, they made the finals every single year. Two MVPs.

1049
00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:54,760
Then you this is where it gets tough. I went

1050
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,760
with Jimmy Butler because he did lead them to multiple

1051
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,559
finals postseason Jimmy two. I think people forget like he

1052
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,320
became the stuff like it's almost mythic, except that it's

1053
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,719
true because of how he would ratchet it up in

1054
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,920
the playoffs. Your Donnas has them would be the vibes

1055
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,599
pick the symbolic pick there forever. But like bam Adebayo

1056
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,239
is just better, and the fact that he's been a

1057
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,880
perennial defensive Player of the Year contender just hasn't gotten

1058
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,679
there yet. I certainly think that it doesn't need to

1059
00:48:25,679 --> 00:48:28,239
be him, But I think I look at I just

1060
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,079
feel like what he's done is too hard for Shack

1061
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:33,920
to overcome in that smaller window. And then Yourdonnas has

1062
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,360
them to overcome. Is okay, you lead the franchise and

1063
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,920
rebounds all time or whatever it is, but like, was

1064
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,519
your peak sort of anywhere near BAM's And already with

1065
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:46,119
Bam he ranks no lower than fourth in franchise history,

1066
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:48,760
so not even just since two thousand in total minutes,

1067
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,760
which he's third, points, which is second, rebounds second, assists second,

1068
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,320
steals third, and blocks fourth. I think that's like a

1069
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:00,000
pretty big deal.

1070
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:03,599
Speaker 2: I think I would have gone Bosh. I think I

1071
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:06,360
would have. I think I would have. I mean, I

1072
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,000
get it, Like the statistical case is there. I just

1073
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,679
I think I would default too, and he's beloved too

1074
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,360
out of bio is I think Jimmy has to be there.

1075
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,119
But like I think the if I had to make

1076
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:21,719
the tough decision. I would take three heatles and then

1077
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,159
leave Jimmy as opposed to two and then and then

1078
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:29,119
have Bam on there. But like, that's a tough call.

1079
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,000
I don't envy you having to make that. I think

1080
00:49:31,159 --> 00:49:33,159
I think if push came to shove, I'd have Bosh

1081
00:49:33,199 --> 00:49:36,000
over Bam, but it would be like, that's a really

1082
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,360
tough one. I think your other three is a no

1083
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,079
note situation.

1084
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,159
Speaker 1: Let me clarify what I said on Bam. I meant

1085
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,960
in his ranks for the franchise since two thousand, not

1086
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:45,719
all time, because then you get into a lot. I

1087
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,679
think I misspoked there. But yeah, that's Bosh. I had

1088
00:49:48,679 --> 00:49:51,840
thought about him too. Again, I thought about Shack. I

1089
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,719
forgot that. I know he won a title, like I

1090
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,719
forgot that Shaq was still an All NBA player for

1091
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:56,840
some of his time in Miami.

1092
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: That did not quite the same though, right, And like

1093
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,960
Wade is the you associate with that title. To me,

1094
00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:05,440
that that's actually really Wade is. Wade is one with

1095
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,480
a bullet, like you know what I mean. He's ahead

1096
00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:08,639
of Lebron to me by far.

1097
00:50:09,039 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: So it feels like there might be six or seven

1098
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,159
guys that you could make real cases for here. So

1099
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:16,159
you have these four, and then you have Eudonnis Haslam,

1100
00:50:16,199 --> 00:50:18,480
you have Bosh and then whether you wanted to talk

1101
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:19,280
about Shack.

1102
00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:21,599
Speaker 2: Or not, I mean, do you just just ray Allen

1103
00:50:21,639 --> 00:50:23,480
get A mentioned because he hit one of the biggest

1104
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,079
shots in NBA history, which washingtoned out right.

1105
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,639
Speaker 1: Right, man, I'm like regret. I almost feel like, so

1106
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,719
would it be wrong for me to pick if I

1107
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,039
was to bounce one of them? And I said, hey, Grant,

1108
00:50:34,039 --> 00:50:35,960
you can choose the fourth one, but I get to

1109
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,079
pick who leaves. I might bounce Jimmy. Is that dumb?

1110
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 2: I can't. You can't bounce Jimmy and keep Bam because

1111
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,800
Jimmy was the best player on the teams that overlapped

1112
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,800
with Bam. I mean, like in.

1113
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: Terms of just Bam pilled, apparently you are.

1114
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:52,079
Speaker 2: It's a good It's a good pill to be to

1115
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:55,000
be pilled by. Uh. He's He's a great We love Bam.

1116
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:58,360
He's a great player. I think Jimmy was better, at

1117
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,599
least in terms in terms of like lifting the team

1118
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:03,840
in a playoff setting, which is just gonna be what

1119
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,679
his legacy is. I mean, this was a hard one.

1120
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:10,000
I think it's Bosh for me. But but Bam has

1121
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:12,440
the numbers. Like I think Bosh was a third option,

1122
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:14,119
BAM has never been less than two.

1123
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: So so you only would have subbed in Bosh for Bam.

1124
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:17,920
You wouldn't have made any other edits to it.

1125
00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:21,639
Speaker 2: No, I think Jimmy, Lebron and Wade just they have

1126
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,320
to stay the Milwaukee Bucks.

1127
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:24,599
Speaker 1: So I mean I think that we could just you

1128
00:51:24,639 --> 00:51:26,880
could pencil in the title team if you want. But

1129
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,280
Giannis is just I think Giannis is probably gonna go

1130
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,159
down as the best franchise player in history. That's a

1131
00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:33,280
debate to be had with Kareem, but he's in here.

1132
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,480
No notes, Brook Lopez just turning into I know this,

1133
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,559
this isn't nationally part of it, but just turning into

1134
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:40,960
a defensive Player of the Year candidate once he came

1135
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,320
to Milwaukee, who was hitting threes? Insane? Chris Middleton the

1136
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,039
two man game, with Giannis the second most important player

1137
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:50,400
or no worse than third, depending on how you felt

1138
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,639
about Lopez, those three are just they were the most

1139
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:55,599
important players to a title team. I struggled whether do

1140
00:51:55,679 --> 00:51:58,760
I just go with Drew Holliday and like complete though Okay,

1141
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,719
these dudes won a championship together, but Michael Redd has

1142
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:05,400
the longevity bump there. That guy could really shoot, really score,

1143
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:08,039
spent a ton of time there, so he has again

1144
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,360
that tenure. He was there between two thousand and twenty eleven.

1145
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:14,159
He scored more points in a Bucks jersey during this

1146
00:52:14,199 --> 00:52:16,559
time than all but five or he's scored more points

1147
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:18,599
in a Bucks jersey than all but five other players

1148
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,719
all time. And he's made more threes with the Bucks

1149
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,239
than anyone except Ray Allen and Chris Middleton. So I

1150
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:26,840
think he had just enough credentials. But I would certainly

1151
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,880
listen to if people said, hey, yeah, you know, if

1152
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,960
they come in with like, I don't know, I guess

1153
00:52:32,039 --> 00:52:35,639
Ray Allen would be another option. Or Andrew Bogan. You

1154
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:36,840
think you think Ray Allen?

1155
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, it's between. I think the Jannis, Lopez

1156
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,639
and Middleton are unassailable. And then just just because of

1157
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:45,199
the championship, and and Giannis is like, what are we

1158
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,880
talking about? Allen had three All Star Games as a book,

1159
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,960
Red had won. Allen got MVP votes, Red didn't Alan.

1160
00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:56,480
I think I'm almost certain it was in the two thousands.

1161
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,840
It might have been like O two or oh three.

1162
00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,440
He was the best player on a Bucks team that

1163
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,960
did make the Conference finals. I want to say the

1164
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,000
team that had Glenn Robinson and Sam Cassell. So I

1165
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:07,320
would give Alan the nod here. But that's the problem

1166
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,519
with Alan is like we just talked about him. We

1167
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:11,599
talked about him for the Celtics in passing, we talked

1168
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:13,400
about him in the Heat for the Heat in passing.

1169
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,199
He's not gonna make the Oklahoma City team, but like

1170
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,000
for his Sonics years, I think you've at least mentioned him.

1171
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,000
So it's like he's just all over the map. And

1172
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:24,719
it's almost like if Alan had seven or eight years

1173
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,280
with the Bucks at that level, then he's in. But

1174
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,639
he doesn't, So I can see why you went with Red.

1175
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:31,639
I would go Alan Overred, though.

1176
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,719
Speaker 1: He only had two and a half seasons that fall

1177
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,960
into this era, which is what was tough for me.

1178
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got over the rim nineties ninety Yeah in

1179
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,320
the league in ninety six, so you're right about that,

1180
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,239
but his All Star only two All Star seasons count.

1181
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,719
You're right, it's tough. I could see. It makes it

1182
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,400
a lot closer, for sure. I have Minnesota Kevin Garnett obviously,

1183
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:52,519
even though some of that's in the nineties, he's still

1184
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:58,039
the like before this current era of Wolf's success, it

1185
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:01,119
was just like, oh four, it was the season you

1186
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:05,320
always pointed to. Garnett was an MVP type player back then,

1187
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:07,400
you know, just one of the best defenders of all

1188
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,440
time just was surrounded by not very much talent in

1189
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,679
a brutal West and he was just ridiculous. It gets

1190
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:17,039
harder after that. I did put Anthony Edwards on here,

1191
00:54:17,119 --> 00:54:20,039
just because he's been the key to the only other

1192
00:54:20,119 --> 00:54:22,599
good version of the Wolves we've seen in twenty five years.

1193
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,719
It's weird to put someone on here whose like career

1194
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,519
Arrow is still pointing up, but I just he's the

1195
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:32,519
best player on the other best Wolves teams, so it

1196
00:54:32,599 --> 00:54:34,840
has to be him. That's also kind of the case

1197
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:38,159
for Cat who does make it. He was there for

1198
00:54:38,199 --> 00:54:40,960
a really really long time and just the counting stats

1199
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:42,880
are stupid in the All Star Games, and like, he's

1200
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,079
just the statistical case is strong enough that I had

1201
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:48,199
to put him there, even though I don't know. He

1202
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,039
feels like someone that there are a lot of people

1203
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,719
who are, like, you know, who's actually not good as Cat,

1204
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,440
And I just I can't quite get there, but just

1205
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,039
we're talking about the Wolves, so it's slim Pickens. Lastly,

1206
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:02,360
Kevin Love the team was bad with him there for

1207
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,400
almost all the time, all of his tenure. This could

1208
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,400
be Ricky Rubio. And I think if I were being

1209
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,679
totally consistent and going with like who did fans like,

1210
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,880
who do they fall in love with most, it's probably

1211
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,800
Rubio for that era of Wolves basketball, which was again

1212
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:17,599
not good.

1213
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: Wait, you think Rubio was more beloved.

1214
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 2: Than kat I think Rubio is one of the most

1215
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,159
like niche beloved players on any team for the for

1216
00:55:29,199 --> 00:55:31,880
this century, like he just ever he because it was

1217
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,000
so sad, like the whole narrative like he's seventeen in

1218
00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:37,280
playing for Spain and we got this guy and now

1219
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,519
the ACL happens and it's like it's just everyone felt

1220
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:43,199
bad for him. He seems like it's such a good dude.

1221
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,679
Like we were talking off air before this the other

1222
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,920
day and it's like the change your face meme where

1223
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,880
he's just like, yeah, just being a sweet guy. Like

1224
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:53,840
I think I think people love Rubio in Minnesota, or

1225
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,199
if maybe I'm projecting, I would have loved Rubio in Minnesota.

1226
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,360
I loved him from outside Minnesota off couldn't love enough

1227
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:02,719
had to go with some of the numbers. I mean,

1228
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,880
Kevin loves statistical cases like he just had absurd production

1229
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,199
while he was there. He's third in wind shares behind

1230
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:10,719
Kat and KG for the sentime.

1231
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,159
Speaker 1: He was the modern day guy who kind of hollowed

1232
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:15,360
out the meaning of double doubles. I think for everybody

1233
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,039
or it's like, oh, there's Kevin Love with like his

1234
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:19,920
nine hundred straight double double Minnesota again.

1235
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,760
Speaker 2: Didn't you have a thirty rebound or like he had

1236
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:22,599
a thirty twenty.

1237
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty games just became like, oh yeah, whatever Kevin right.

1238
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: Then Demonessy Bonus averaged that for a couple of years,

1239
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,679
and he knows while e Zerbiak should he have been

1240
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,239
here about Peul Richardson?

1241
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:40,119
Speaker 1: You're right, come on, I think this is right. I

1242
00:56:40,119 --> 00:56:41,880
don't know. Rubio would have had to have been the

1243
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,599
fifth and after that it's I mean, like Gacelle had

1244
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:48,119
a mini tenure here during this time. I don't think Steph.

1245
00:56:48,119 --> 00:56:50,320
I don't think Wolves fans will pick Steph Marberry there

1246
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:51,159
at all.

1247
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,199
Speaker 2: I mean, he barely gets into the two thousands too.

1248
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:55,239
Is the other problem?

1249
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 1: Now, do you think any of the other I think

1250
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,320
Anthony Edwards is the right pick. By the way, do

1251
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,519
you think any of the like is. Does Rudy Gobert

1252
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:05,000
have a chance of making this like right now or

1253
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,000
if we did this, you know, in a year or two.

1254
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 2: In a well it would depend, right, I think he could.

1255
00:57:09,079 --> 00:57:10,840
If the Wolves had a ton of team success, it

1256
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,719
would only solidify Edwards's case, and then you might have

1257
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,360
to take a second guy right like. And at that point,

1258
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,519
maybe it's go Bear Overcat, because Gobert will have been

1259
00:57:19,559 --> 00:57:23,159
there and mattered like longer in their like successful phase

1260
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,760
than Kat will have. Or maybe Love gets the bump too,

1261
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,679
and you just have three guys from the relatively modern Wolves,

1262
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,119
which would feel weird, but but what it because they've

1263
00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:34,519
just they've never been this consistently good.

1264
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: Consecutive conference finals. That's a franchise first, I mean, that

1265
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,719
is an apex for them. Yeah, no question, No, NICOLEA.

1266
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:43,559
Pekovich or Al Jefferson Minnesota.

1267
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,280
Speaker 2: That's one of the best parts of this exercises. I

1268
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,000
haven't thought about Pekovic for a good four years.

1269
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:49,800
Speaker 1: As if human being Matt.

1270
00:57:49,679 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: Harrison Barnes Harrison Barnes's greatest dunk of his career was

1271
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,880
just all over him. You remember that one.

1272
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,599
Speaker 1: We'll don't not even a little bit. Oh, look up,

1273
00:57:56,679 --> 00:57:58,440
describe it to me in grave detail. Please?

1274
00:57:58,719 --> 00:58:00,719
Speaker 2: Oh as well, so here you come down. No, we

1275
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:04,480
don't have Oh this one was terrible. I hated doing this.

1276
00:58:04,639 --> 00:58:07,840
It's the New Orleans Pelicans, which is also the New Orleans,

1277
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,280
Oklahoma City Hornets, which is how Chris Paul gets here.

1278
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,480
What do you want? Like? This is where he started

1279
00:58:13,519 --> 00:58:16,280
his career. He was only there from five oh six

1280
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,679
to ten eleven. He's still the franchise leader in win shares,

1281
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:22,360
led the league and assist twice, steals, three times Rookie

1282
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:23,119
of the Year three.

1283
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: All in Like, how many time Rookie of the Year.

1284
00:58:27,719 --> 00:58:30,519
Speaker 2: Well, they thought about giving it to him twice, but

1285
00:58:30,599 --> 00:58:33,039
they said that doesn't make any sense. We'll give it

1286
00:58:33,039 --> 00:58:35,480
to him once. All NBA what else today said? Oh,

1287
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:37,840
he was second in MVP voting in seven oh eight.

1288
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,800
That's pretty good. Only there's only one way you can

1289
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,719
be better. So he's here, even though he also made

1290
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:45,719
the Clippers and we've thought about him for some others.

1291
00:58:46,119 --> 00:58:48,360
I also put David West just because he was the

1292
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:53,159
running mate on what were some relatively successful Hornets teams,

1293
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,039
a couple All Star games for him average sixteen and seven.

1294
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,480
Anthony Davis makes it again like, you know, not a

1295
00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:03,280
ton of team success, but just behind Paul and win

1296
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:06,760
shares for the franchise since two thousand, what three all

1297
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,280
NBA teams only played seven seasons? But that's enough. The

1298
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,320
last pick, I'm I hate it. I went with Zion.

1299
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,679
I just like he's had no team success, He's missed

1300
00:59:17,679 --> 00:59:20,599
a ton of time. I just wasn't gonna put PJ.

1301
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,920
Brown or Drew Holliday ahead of him, and those are

1302
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,639
the only two other guys with.

1303
00:59:25,199 --> 00:59:27,199
Speaker 1: I wonder if Pelicans fan like if now, if you're

1304
00:59:27,239 --> 00:59:29,719
looking for someone who defines the franchise.

1305
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:31,559
Speaker 2: And that's that's my argument. It's like he's the era

1306
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:35,960
defining player for going on six years now, for better

1307
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:38,400
or worse. And it's not so were you gonna make

1308
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,840
the Holiday case? Because I just think I honestly.

1309
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,639
Speaker 1: Wonder if you pulled Pelicans fans and get where I

1310
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,039
gave them truth serum, I feel like they would pick

1311
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:47,719
Drew Holiday.

1312
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 2: He's certainly like, well, he's more likable, right in terms

1313
00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:53,400
of Ricky rub.

1314
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,639
Speaker 1: Being beloved he's been beloved wherever he goes.

1315
00:59:56,079 --> 00:59:57,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you?

1316
00:59:57,880 --> 00:59:58,239
Speaker 1: But do you?

1317
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,199
Speaker 2: It's I don't know why I don't associate him with

1318
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,719
the Pelicans, do you. I guess you sort of should

1319
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:03,519
because it's.

1320
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think who do I associate him with?

1321
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,079
Probably the Sixers, and then he won titles with the

1322
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,159
Bucks and the Celtics that they were gonna pop up first,

1323
01:00:10,199 --> 01:00:12,760
But like he was in Orleans for like a half decade.

1324
01:00:12,519 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: Right yeah, guarding Kevin Durant and every other six to

1325
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,800
ten guy that nobody else I could guard.

1326
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,760
Speaker 1: Sorry one second, Uh yeah, I have Joe Dumars and

1327
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,199
Troy Reaver. They would like Derek Queen on this list.

1328
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:28,039
Speaker 2: You've never done a bit where you pick up your

1329
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:31,000
phone and pretend to answer it. I it's been we've

1330
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:34,159
potted for a long time. I you actually actually had

1331
01:00:34,159 --> 01:00:36,719
me first. I was like, what, this must be important?

1332
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: Uh And it only came to me like thirty seconds ago.

1333
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,639
I thought it's cheesy, it's corny, but uh shout out,

1334
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,119
so do it? Well?

1335
01:00:44,199 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Because Zion. I hate the Zion pick. I think

1336
01:00:47,039 --> 01:00:49,159
maybe it maybe it should just be holiday. I'll stick

1337
01:00:49,199 --> 01:00:52,239
with it. Just got like Zion is the when we've

1338
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,760
talked about New Orleans since he's been there, there has

1339
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,960
never been another item one on the discussion list other

1340
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,960
than Zion, and so like that I think factored in. Again,

1341
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,320
I'm being inconsistent because I'm going against the whole like

1342
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,760
who the fans love, like who's deep in there? Who

1343
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:08,880
are they naming their pets after? It's not Zion?

1344
01:01:09,239 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: Well, no, I think by the way, I think it's fair.

1345
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:13,239
I might have gone with Drew, but maybe from a

1346
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,679
fan perspective, Zion is the more likely answer. I think

1347
01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:17,559
if you think about what we talked about with the Hornets,

1348
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:19,719
another team where this was not the best exercise and

1349
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,960
at least at least the Pelicans have Chris Paul and

1350
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,039
Anthony Davis and hanging their hats on like if you

1351
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:28,960
when have we talked about anyone else aside from like

1352
01:01:29,679 --> 01:01:32,239
of the other options of if he's healthy, he's just

1353
01:01:32,239 --> 01:01:34,000
a top ten player. And so it's the same thing

1354
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,800
with Amelo Ball, where we've never talked about him at

1355
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,360
that peak, but it's, oh, who on the Hornets could

1356
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:40,400
be an All NBA player during Like it's LaMelo Ball,

1357
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,559
Like that is Zion and we all kind of just

1358
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:46,920
recognize that as Zion where ever to stay healthy the Pelicans,

1359
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:49,280
I mean probably not this season's Pelicans if we're being honest,

1360
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,559
but like, the Pelicans are just going to be dangerous.

1361
01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:54,360
So I totally get where you're coming from with the pick.

1362
01:01:54,679 --> 01:01:57,000
This was not fun for me. Grant the New York

1363
01:01:57,079 --> 01:02:01,920
Knicks is Mount Rushmore since two thousand. Carmel Athie's on it,

1364
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:04,159
like he's just I mean, he's scored more points. He's

1365
01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:06,039
over ten k during this band and anyone else. I

1366
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:07,840
don't know who needs to hear this, but Jalen Brunson

1367
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,440
is probably on the New York Knicks' all time Mount

1368
01:02:10,519 --> 01:02:12,320
Rushmore at this point. We you just look at what

1369
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,079
he's been able to do in the playoffs, brought the

1370
01:02:15,119 --> 01:02:17,280
team to their first conference final since two thousand. You

1371
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,920
can make if you're going for oh the members of

1372
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,400
the title teams, like, I get that, but he's certainly

1373
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,320
on this list. There is no debate there. Now. This

1374
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,599
is where it just gets all sorts of maybe not fun,

1375
01:02:27,679 --> 01:02:30,039
but I would like to recognize Julius Randall made two

1376
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:33,079
All NBA teams and one Most Improved Player with the Knicks.

1377
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:35,400
Whatever you think about Julius Randall's a flawed player. What

1378
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,800
do you think about his postseason performances? The Knicks since

1379
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,880
two thousand have been complete and utter, by and large,

1380
01:02:44,119 --> 01:02:48,039
absolute ass. Julius Randall was a really good player that

1381
01:02:48,119 --> 01:02:50,840
helped put them on a trajectory where they got a

1382
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:53,360
player like Jalen Brunson and that wound up making all

1383
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,239
the difference. But then after this it gets even tougher.

1384
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,280
For me, I went with Alan Houston. This was not

1385
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,360
his peak, like he was on the team that made

1386
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,199
the conference finals in two thousand. He dealt with some

1387
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:05,880
injuries towards the tail end, but you know what, he

1388
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,360
played enough to score a bunch. I think during this

1389
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,199
stretch he was still like third in points scored or

1390
01:03:11,199 --> 01:03:13,280
whatever it is, fifth, like in the top five there.

1391
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,719
So I went with him. I think you could easily

1392
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:19,440
go with David Lee, even Jamal Crawford, Kurt Thomas, maybe

1393
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,280
Amari Stodemayer. Are there any other names that you would

1394
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,159
be thinking about here? This was as someone who's been

1395
01:03:25,199 --> 01:03:29,519
a lifelong Knicks fan, this exercise was decidedly not fun

1396
01:03:29,719 --> 01:03:29,960
for me.

1397
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tyson Chandler just because he was on that other well,

1398
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,880
some of the good mellow teams. But you're not putting

1399
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:35,480
him on there? Over?

1400
01:03:35,639 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: Do we pour one out for the amnesty of Chauncey Billup?

1401
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:38,880
Should I put him on here?

1402
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 2: Baron Davis did play for a second for them, I think.

1403
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, nowhere near his PROBA. Yeah, team on here too, Jefferies.

1404
01:03:49,159 --> 01:03:53,440
Speaker 2: Right, they had team. It's wild to me that second

1405
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,800
and third in win shares for the Knicks during this stretch.

1406
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,360
Did you look or will you be surprised?

1407
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 1: When I saw Mitchell Robinson? David Lee is too David Lee,

1408
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,360
he's too that. That doesn't shock me at all, just

1409
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:05,719
with the rebounds he made him all the start.

1410
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a stat stuffer for sure. But Mitchell Robinson,

1411
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,599
it feels like, how could he possibly have played enough to.

1412
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,199
Speaker 1: He honestly should make this list just because it's that

1413
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:15,480
mind melting that he's there.

1414
01:04:15,559 --> 01:04:19,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really weird. I think Houston. I really bumped

1415
01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:20,800
on Houston at first because I was like, oh, that's

1416
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:23,159
he wasn't any good after two thousand, But yeah, he

1417
01:04:23,199 --> 01:04:25,079
did have an all Star season and he just was

1418
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:27,159
still one of the best shooters in the league. So

1419
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:28,239
I think he's right.

1420
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: Do you think that in terms of if there was

1421
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,920
an award to be given out for most likely to

1422
01:04:33,079 --> 01:04:35,239
die for their franchise, I feel like Josh Hart would

1423
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:37,360
probably win it, so like could that have given him

1424
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:40,599
like some consideration here? I just don't. This was because

1425
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:42,519
the Knicks of those I made a joke before, but

1426
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:44,559
like it was true, like after two thousand, like it

1427
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:47,119
got really rough to like kind of their prime Julius

1428
01:04:47,199 --> 01:04:50,400
Randall years for the Knicks. So I think this is

1429
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:52,599
the right for But I think I'll say I think

1430
01:04:52,599 --> 01:04:54,599
there are at least three locks here. I would be

1431
01:04:54,599 --> 01:04:56,639
curious to know what Knicks fans want is the I'm

1432
01:04:56,639 --> 01:04:58,320
sure everyone has their opinion, but who they would want

1433
01:04:58,360 --> 01:04:59,840
is the fourth? Or if maybe some people would leave

1434
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:00,840
off Randall altogether.

1435
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know, there's plenty of space for

1436
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:05,599
Eddie Curry to fit in here if someone wants to

1437
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:11,000
get created. We moved to the Thunder Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook,

1438
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,280
Any any arguments like, I don't know they Yeah, did

1439
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:19,079
you ever want a title? Never won a title? Yeah,

1440
01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:23,079
m VPS, all NBAS, all Stars. Just defining guys on

1441
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:26,360
a team that everybody us included. I think everybody was

1442
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,280
like this, This twenty twelve Thunder gonna win, They'll be

1443
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,440
bad four and a half titles over the next decade.

1444
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,480
Is that the over under never got there? Did exclude Harden,

1445
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:39,039
just not long enough there and he got plenty of

1446
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,079
love with the Rockets. Sga is the only guy to

1447
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,400
lead the Thunder to a title. So that's gonna cover that.

1448
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,440
Didn't get any sonics on here, just I mean, Ray

1449
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,960
Allen would have been a thought, I think if we

1450
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,719
were gone that way, But I'm sure Rishard Lewis, let's

1451
01:05:54,719 --> 01:06:00,599
see Flip Murray. Who else was on there? Jerome, Jim macilvain.

1452
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,679
So the fourth one is is the Vibes pick that

1453
01:06:04,679 --> 01:06:07,480
we've been alluding to for pretty much this whole thing.

1454
01:06:07,519 --> 01:06:11,760
It's Nick Collison. He does not belong on this list

1455
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,880
in terms of like equality of basketball player nine and

1456
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,000
ten games number one by a mile for the Thunder

1457
01:06:18,119 --> 01:06:21,719
in the century, kept getting one year deals seems to

1458
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,920
matter a ton. He is the Eudonis Haslam thing, you know,

1459
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,400
figure He is kind of the just Dwight pal He's

1460
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,519
been there forever, never played for any other team, was

1461
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:37,000
with Durant in Seattle and still you know, endured so

1462
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:40,440
also a couple other guys. I thought about Serge of Baka,

1463
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:43,800
you might give some consideration too hard and obviously Steven

1464
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,480
Adams just for reference, Collison played more games for the

1465
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:50,000
Thunder than Adams and Ibaca combined. So in terms of

1466
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:53,400
like just cumulative impact, he's just the guy. He's been

1467
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,719
there for a thousand was there for a thousand years,

1468
01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:57,920
and I like the idea of him up there with

1469
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,639
three other MVPs. And it's just like, is that Nick

1470
01:07:00,639 --> 01:07:02,760
Collison When people are looking at the stat at the

1471
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:03,800
at the mountain.

1472
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: Where's Paul George land on this? He's the reason they

1473
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:06,440
have Shay the.

1474
01:07:06,519 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: Third place in MVP. I mean, he was not a

1475
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,119
strong consideration, but I like that you mentioned him.

1476
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: The only It's interesting because I think the only player

1477
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,519
that you could conceivably bounce is Nick Collison. But I

1478
01:07:17,519 --> 01:07:19,920
don't see a compelling case for anyone else to put,

1479
01:07:20,039 --> 01:07:22,800
like James Harden, I guess just but like I don't know,

1480
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,719
he wasn't James Harden for his first four years. He

1481
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,239
was the sixth man of the Year.

1482
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:32,039
Speaker 2: But the best Thunder teams with Durant and Westbrook didn't

1483
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:34,199
have Harden, you know, in terms of like team's success,

1484
01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:36,639
like you could go as you want to do. Gary Payton,

1485
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,679
did he have enough good years in the two thousands,

1486
01:07:38,719 --> 01:07:40,320
But I don't think two and a half, three and

1487
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,480
a half. Yeah, he wasn't. There wasn't enough.

1488
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: If we were gonna pick, if we're gonna venture outside

1489
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:49,559
of players, Sam Presty just belongs on here, right, sure, Yeah,

1490
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:54,159
that's a good one. The Orlando Magic. This one actually

1491
01:07:54,159 --> 01:07:57,119
felt pretty cut and dry for me. I mean, Dwight

1492
01:07:57,159 --> 01:07:59,920
Howard spent all of his eight years with their Land

1493
01:08:00,199 --> 01:08:03,519
basically is the NBA's most formidable big man. He had

1494
01:08:03,519 --> 01:08:06,840
three dpo wise that trail's only Rudy Gobert to Kemi

1495
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,079
mc tumble and Ben Wallace all time, and he finished

1496
01:08:09,079 --> 01:08:11,679
in the top five of MVP voting four times, and

1497
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,079
he remains the Magic's all time leader in points, rebounds,

1498
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:17,319
in blocks. Prime Dwight was a hashtag problem. T Max

1499
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:20,000
time in Orlando maybe a little divisive. It was brief,

1500
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:22,560
didn't feature any playoff success. That's kind of the story

1501
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,319
of like T max career though, but he still got

1502
01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:27,760
all NBA honors in all four of his seasons there,

1503
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,079
and that includes joining Howard is the sole players in

1504
01:08:31,119 --> 01:08:34,039
franchise history with multiple First Team nods. I think that's

1505
01:08:34,039 --> 01:08:36,920
a pretty big deal. Nobody has played more Magic games

1506
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:41,119
since two thousand grant In benjaminer Nelson, he is just like,

1507
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,159
he's kind of what Dewdonnis has them is to Miami,

1508
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:47,199
except like he actually played a lot more. He has

1509
01:08:47,199 --> 01:08:49,760
an All Star birth under his belt. He's a Magic

1510
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,680
all time leader and assists and ranks in the top

1511
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,800
five of total points and steals. And then I think

1512
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,920
the fourth spot is where it could get a little interesting.

1513
01:08:58,359 --> 01:09:01,000
But like Vouch, I feel like is the face most

1514
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,760
synonymous with those late twenty ten's Magic They're the only

1515
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,119
other t Mac and Howard are the only other players

1516
01:09:08,119 --> 01:09:11,600
with multiple All Star games in a Magic jersey. And

1517
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:14,600
then Vooch ranks fifth or better and basically every single

1518
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,000
Magic counting stat during this ban I think you could.

1519
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,760
I would listen to arguments for a couple other guys.

1520
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:24,079
Maybe you have a head of Turkulu on there, like

1521
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,520
Rischhard Lewis, JJ Reddick. I don't like Aaron Gordon. I

1522
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,199
just don't. It doesn't feel like this felt like when

1523
01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:31,880
I when I put these four down, I was like no,

1524
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,680
this is right. I maybe it's not inarguable, but who

1525
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,079
would be like the fifth guy that you would consider?

1526
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, well, it kind of depends the direction

1527
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,439
you want to go. Aaron Gordon, I don't think was

1528
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,359
there long enough to like, if you're gonna bump vooch off,

1529
01:09:45,399 --> 01:09:48,119
I'm not bumping McGrady. But two scoring titles, by the way,

1530
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:50,239
for McGrady thirty two a game in one of those

1531
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:55,399
years Nelson, Howard McGrady are on are not debatable. Gordon

1532
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:59,159
not not as long of a tenure. Probably didn't quite

1533
01:09:59,159 --> 01:10:01,840
reach the highest boot did You'd have to pull from

1534
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:06,199
like other players on the Howard Nelson teams like Rishard Lewis, Turkuleu,

1535
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:09,239
JJ Reddick like and I don't think any of those three,

1536
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,079
just to stick with them quite get to the level

1537
01:10:13,159 --> 01:10:17,560
of off of bumping Vucevic, even though, like I guess

1538
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,960
it depends if you're talking team success and like which

1539
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:25,119
which actual like like like team which like which stint

1540
01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:28,159
in the franchise's history this century mattered the most. How

1541
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:29,920
much do you want to honor that? But just like

1542
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:33,079
Vuc's numbers are what they are, like he was just

1543
01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:34,920
super productive in ways those guys weren't.

1544
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: I will say I wish that Grant Hill could just

1545
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:38,319
be put on this list.

1546
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again to do the coach thing. You

1547
01:10:41,079 --> 01:10:43,560
might just Stan Van Gundy might get consideration if that

1548
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,159
were fair, because he was like he four out was

1549
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:48,079
not a thing we talked about until he did it

1550
01:10:48,239 --> 01:10:48,880
with the Magic.

1551
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,560
Speaker 1: Other thing about Vuch too is he is the reason

1552
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:54,319
that the current magic Havronz Wagner. So there's that go

1553
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,760
for him as well. Oh this this was. You think

1554
01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,560
of the Sixers and you maybe don't think it's gonna

1555
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:02,520
be as as this was. But h Grant this was

1556
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:05,279
pretty rough. Joel Bid to me is Alan Iverson and

1557
01:11:05,359 --> 01:11:07,079
Joel and Bid are the locks they want MVP. He's

1558
01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:08,880
in a Sixers uniform. Like there's we don't need to

1559
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,079
get in to all that Andre Didall was probably never

1560
01:11:12,199 --> 01:11:14,960
in the hashtag right role during his time with the Sixers,

1561
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,640
but he did make the two thousand and nine All

1562
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,560
Star appearance. He had an All Defense selection, and he's

1563
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:21,720
in the top five spots for basically all the major

1564
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,920
stack categories, including leading the team and assists. Since two thousand.

1565
01:11:26,399 --> 01:11:28,079
I did not know where to go with number four.

1566
01:11:28,199 --> 01:11:30,279
I'm not gonna lie. I thought about consulting like some

1567
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:32,199
people that we know with the Sixers that might want

1568
01:11:32,239 --> 01:11:34,960
to pick this one. I thought about Ben Simmons, I

1569
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:37,680
thought about Lou Williams. I thought about Tyres Maxie, Jew Hollidant,

1570
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,880
though about Robert Covington, James Harden and just more. I

1571
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,920
settled on Daddius Young. He's the guy where if you

1572
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,960
wanted cherry pick stats and there's even a graphic for

1573
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,199
it when during his time with the Pacers, and he'll

1574
01:11:48,239 --> 01:11:51,319
just pop up alongside some ridiculously fun names, hall of

1575
01:11:51,319 --> 01:11:54,039
Fame names. So it's just like, yeah, it's not even

1576
01:11:54,079 --> 01:11:58,279
a Vibes pick. It's just I was unswayed, unmoved by

1577
01:11:58,319 --> 01:11:59,720
all the alternatives here.

1578
01:12:00,399 --> 01:12:03,159
Speaker 2: I mean, I just can't believe you forgot about Matt Geiger,

1579
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,359
Like does that too? Does that early two thousands title?

1580
01:12:07,399 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 1: Run me?

1581
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:08,039
Speaker 2: Nothing?

1582
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: That Bias Harris might have gotten me like threats in

1583
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:13,119
the comment section had I picked him right?

1584
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:16,359
Speaker 2: I feel like people really loved Eric Snow next to

1585
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:24,680
Ben Ben Simmons is if you're going with like who's

1586
01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:27,880
like a defining figure? I think Simmons case gets a

1587
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,680
lot stronger, but like everybody in Philly just can't stand him,

1588
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:34,600
so you would just like there's no scenario where he gets.

1589
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 1: The money, like if you were throwing vibes completely out

1590
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:39,199
of the equation where it's you know, even when you

1591
01:12:39,239 --> 01:12:41,800
make a Vibes pick, your other picks are well this

1592
01:12:41,800 --> 01:12:44,680
this person isn't a franchise pariah for the most part,

1593
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:46,840
like you know what I mean. So just picking Ben

1594
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,680
Simmons would have been like the antithesis of this exercise.

1595
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:54,359
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, I mean, well you Sam Hanky

1596
01:12:54,359 --> 01:12:57,279
would probably belong if we're talking about like defining figures

1597
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:02,439
or like we throw him here all the failed process

1598
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:03,640
picks that just didn't work.

1599
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: Kjm honestly kJ McDaniel Permanute stat Darling in.

1600
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 2: My heart, let's throw him an and like a whole

1601
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,800
series of like that type of contract happened after the

1602
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,119
Sixers did the weird Do.

1603
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,600
Speaker 1: You think that he was his the way when he

1604
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,800
played in the Sixers? It's so small of that windows

1605
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,680
in here. Should I've just gone with the kembe mdumbo

1606
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,239
and picked the name in that game?

1607
01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:26,079
Speaker 2: Well, he he's got like five teams that you could

1608
01:13:26,079 --> 01:13:27,479
put him. I mean, I guess some of that was

1609
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,960
the nineties, but yeah, I don't think you get there. Well,

1610
01:13:31,319 --> 01:13:34,119
was he on that title team not the titled finals team?

1611
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:35,239
I can't embarrassing.

1612
01:13:35,319 --> 01:13:37,119
Speaker 1: I think he might have been. I'll double check that now,

1613
01:13:37,159 --> 01:13:38,640
but I looked and it was just he didn't spend

1614
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,720
enough time there, and I think he came in the fight,

1615
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:42,760
like when they made the finals, he was there, like

1616
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,039
he was acquired in the middle of the year, right, Yeah,

1617
01:13:45,039 --> 01:13:46,640
he was acquired in the middle of two thousand, two

1618
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,039
thousand and one. That'spent all two thousand and one, two

1619
01:13:49,079 --> 01:13:50,560
thousand and two, and then that was it.

1620
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, probably not. I think this. I mean

1621
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,880
that young is he feels he is a sixer to me,

1622
01:13:57,079 --> 01:14:00,199
so criteria won satisfied. I think of him first as

1623
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:03,159
a sixer and then the other options are just so

1624
01:14:03,279 --> 01:14:07,279
bad that I I only one where It's like, in

1625
01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:09,920
terms of importance to the franchise, he weirdly is up

1626
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:11,640
there for the long reasons.

1627
01:14:12,039 --> 01:14:14,359
Speaker 1: That is third in total games played since two thousand

1628
01:14:14,399 --> 01:14:16,560
for the six Ers and and fourth in scoring and

1629
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,520
he's just not even known as a score.

1630
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:24,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, Phoenix Sun's easy one. Actually, uh, I

1631
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:26,920
took three from seven seconds or less, So you got

1632
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,640
Steve Nash two MVPs, the catalyst for what at the

1633
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:36,520
time was like an unthinkably good NBA offense, a Maristodomrashawn Marion,

1634
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,119
like they sort of have to be there. They were

1635
01:14:39,119 --> 01:14:42,319
the two best players alongside Nash for the best years

1636
01:14:42,319 --> 01:14:47,880
of that stretch, which still unless well, the the most

1637
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:52,840
recent finals team gave me some pause. But Devin Booker

1638
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,199
is here just because he's like the life of Son.

1639
01:14:55,239 --> 01:14:57,640
He's the franchise's all time leading scorer, which is like

1640
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,680
that can't be right, but it is U that gets

1641
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:03,840
you one from those really good Chris Paul Bridges, you know,

1642
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:09,560
eight and uh Booker teams because one he's still there too.

1643
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:11,479
I think he's probably the best player on those teams.

1644
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:12,520
Paul was, who did you want.

1645
01:15:12,399 --> 01:15:14,000
Speaker 1: To put over Booker? Did you mention that? And I

1646
01:15:14,039 --> 01:15:15,119
just didn't hear. No.

1647
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 2: It's just like the first three were locks from the

1648
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:20,079
seven seconds or less era, and then it's just it

1649
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:22,399
had to be somebody else, and I just I don't

1650
01:15:22,439 --> 01:15:25,520
know who you realistically consider other than Booker. I was

1651
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:28,279
just kind of vamping to justify him. But like, what's

1652
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:30,840
pretty this is probably my easiest set of four.

1653
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:32,359
Speaker 1: I think that about Bend.

1654
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was him, Goren and Zoran Dragics would

1655
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,520
share one. They would share a bust I think us

1656
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:40,359
and then could.

1657
01:15:40,199 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: You could you like really stretch it and try and

1658
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,399
make a case for Yeah, I.

1659
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:49,600
Speaker 2: Think Dia would have been the one if I were

1660
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,640
going to just eliminate anything outside of like O four

1661
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:56,359
to nine. But I think Booker's case is pretty strong.

1662
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,039
Speaker 1: No, Bradley Beale, Kevin Duran.

1663
01:16:00,279 --> 01:16:02,560
Speaker 2: Durant, Booker and Ryan Dunn.

1664
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,239
Speaker 1: Can we just put mash Bia here? Maybe? All right?

1665
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,600
Speaker 2: Slightly more controversial, Probably the first two were easy for

1666
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,159
the Portland Trail Blazers. That's who we're talking about. Dame Lillard,

1667
01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:16,359
LaMarcus Aldridge. Dame is like in a category by himself.

1668
01:16:16,399 --> 01:16:19,439
He's on the franchises all time, Mount rushmore like, if

1669
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:21,920
you're picking one guy, it's him or Clyde Drexler, or

1670
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,800
if you go way back, Bill Walton, but just not

1671
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,720
long enough prime there. Aldridge was just the second best

1672
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:31,479
player on the best stretch of Blazers teams, next to Dame.

1673
01:16:32,399 --> 01:16:34,880
Just like Aldridge is definitely one of those guys you

1674
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,640
forget nineteen and eight for nine years, and he had

1675
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,760
a tenth place and a seventh place MVP finish in

1676
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:43,399
his last two seasons with the team, So.

1677
01:16:43,399 --> 01:16:45,960
Speaker 1: Just like seven, I didn't know he finished that high wild.

1678
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: Right, I had to double check that. CJ. McCollum is

1679
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,000
kind of falls into the same boat. I guess, like,

1680
01:16:52,239 --> 01:16:55,359
never an All Star, but nineteen a game shot just

1681
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,920
under forty percent from three for a really long time.

1682
01:17:00,199 --> 01:17:02,399
You know, if I think it had to be guys

1683
01:17:02,399 --> 01:17:07,039
from this era, I did exclude, not like for any

1684
01:17:07,359 --> 01:17:10,000
reason other than just like not long enough some of

1685
01:17:10,039 --> 01:17:13,439
the early two thousands Blazers teams where it's like Jermaine

1686
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:15,760
O'Neil's there and I don't know Scotti Pippen and Bonzi

1687
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,439
Wells and Shed and like Zach Randolph's there for a

1688
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:21,079
minute that it was just such a revolving door. I mean,

1689
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:24,960
there was a conference finalist there, so like if Dame

1690
01:17:25,039 --> 01:17:27,359
hadn't made one of those, I think maybe this gets

1691
01:17:27,359 --> 01:17:32,520
a little trickier. The last guy, Brandon Roy was incredible

1692
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,600
until he wasn't. It was a good time, not a

1693
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:39,279
long time, just four good, four healthy, ish seasons. Rookie

1694
01:17:39,319 --> 01:17:42,159
of the Year, three All Stars, two All NBA, and

1695
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:44,760
the Kapper for me is like, if there's a Blazer's

1696
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,720
moment that doesn't involve Dame this century, and isn't the

1697
01:17:49,119 --> 01:17:52,039
Shaq finishing a Kobe fed lob in the conference finals

1698
01:17:52,039 --> 01:17:56,399
against them. It's Roy's fourth quarter in against Dallas, like

1699
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,600
he just like it was a postseason. He was kind

1700
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,760
of not like himself anymore at that point too, and

1701
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,479
he just goes for twenty three in the fourth I

1702
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,119
think it was twenty three or they come back from

1703
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:08,880
twenty three, and he just can't miss from anywhere, just

1704
01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:11,920
like an electrifying like oh my god to happen to

1705
01:18:12,039 --> 01:18:15,279
him too, who had already had injury issues and was like,

1706
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,479
I don't know if this guy's gonna have anything close

1707
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:20,279
to the kind of career. It looked like he was

1708
01:18:20,359 --> 01:18:22,359
just like a wee. I don't know it was. It

1709
01:18:22,399 --> 01:18:24,640
had to be there thing maybe, but I'll never forget

1710
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,680
like the emotion of that fourth quarter for him. So

1711
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:29,920
he makes it sentimentally, I think.

1712
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: I only have three notes. I'll got four picks. I

1713
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:35,840
think Bill Walton should have made it anyway, because Bill

1714
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:37,520
Walton is is forever.

1715
01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:39,760
Speaker 2: Sure out of there by like nineteen seventy nine.

1716
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:43,640
Speaker 1: But still I have Young Handsome on this list already too.

1717
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:46,279
I think he just belongs there. But for real, my actual,

1718
01:18:46,319 --> 01:18:49,319
real note, I think the these might be the right four.

1719
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,600
If you were in to bounce somebody, I think it

1720
01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:56,520
would have to be CJ. For Zach Randolph. Does that

1721
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:57,920
mean like, is that that? I think you give any

1722
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:58,960
consideration to z bo.

1723
01:18:59,520 --> 01:19:05,119
Speaker 2: If any, but he's going at CJ. Randolph.

1724
01:19:05,159 --> 01:19:09,279
Speaker 1: He had some gnarly seasons, say that not ironically.

1725
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:11,520
Speaker 2: I don't think those teams were good, and like the

1726
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:15,199
fact that he's so associated with the Grizzlies, I think

1727
01:19:15,199 --> 01:19:16,159
it was part of it for me.

1728
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,920
Speaker 1: He also played a total of eight playoff games with

1729
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:20,079
the Blazers.

1730
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 2: Being the teams weren't good, you could like, there's a

1731
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,079
robust list of like you could go. Nick Batoom was

1732
01:19:28,119 --> 01:19:31,359
there for a lot of the Dame Aldridge years, Like

1733
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:35,840
even Wes Matthews was really good before the Achilles. Yeah,

1734
01:19:36,279 --> 01:19:39,600
McCollum is like, it's it's it's a longevity thing. I

1735
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:41,520
think it was almost a decade and he was just great.

1736
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,279
He was very good every year, you know.

1737
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,079
Speaker 1: I think that's certainly if you go with the emotional

1738
01:19:46,079 --> 01:19:48,479
component two, factoring that in addition to the performance and

1739
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:50,399
team success, it would be him. I think ze Bo's

1740
01:19:50,439 --> 01:19:53,880
the only other guy. Batum might sway me. I remember

1741
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,239
being gutted, Remember when he like ended up on the Hornets.

1742
01:19:56,319 --> 01:19:58,560
How the Blazers supposed there was the West math Les

1743
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:00,760
towards Achilles. That entire team basically broke.

1744
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,920
Speaker 2: Up right that offseason? The team, well, should we just

1745
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:06,119
split one of the spots and give it to Alfa,

1746
01:20:06,199 --> 01:20:10,319
Rukaminu and Moharkless because those are just the combo Forwards'

1747
01:20:10,319 --> 01:20:11,720
is like, oh, you got to get two guys like

1748
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,800
that between Damon and Aldridge. Here we go. Okay, another uh,

1749
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,239
pretty easy one. Actually for me, I'd be surprised if

1750
01:20:19,239 --> 01:20:19,520
you have.

1751
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:22,520
Speaker 1: Any notes on Can I just I'd like to interject, yes,

1752
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,359
making having Grant do the mount rushmoreson in two thousand

1753
01:20:25,399 --> 01:20:29,279
for the Sacramento Kings is honestly torturous. For Sacramento Kings fans,

1754
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:32,279
they catch nothing but strays from you all day long, Sir.

1755
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 2: I want to meet the Kings fan that disagrees with

1756
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,800
these four picks. I see, maybe there's Roo on one

1757
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,680
of them, but it's so it's the Kings again. This

1758
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,479
I feel like, did I get all these teams? I

1759
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,399
guess you got the Knicks, but it's like there's been

1760
01:20:44,399 --> 01:20:46,399
a tiny pocket of success this century.

1761
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 1: I was basically, I'm just impressure. Didn't put like Carl

1762
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,600
andry On here or something to Beatrol.

1763
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:55,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, Carl Andrey, Rejon Rondo, Vince Carter, h Dak rand Dawson.

1764
01:20:55,600 --> 01:21:00,600
He has Zach Randoff again. Absolutely. Uh So, it's I'm

1765
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,359
just honoring the only time this team was sustainably good,

1766
01:21:04,359 --> 01:21:06,119
and it was a very early part of the century.

1767
01:21:07,199 --> 01:21:09,399
Everybody remembers I ran into the Lakers in a highly

1768
01:21:09,399 --> 01:21:12,199
controversial conference finals. I think that Kings team is one

1769
01:21:12,239 --> 01:21:14,680
of the better king one of the better teams full

1770
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:17,199
stop to not win a title in this stretch we're

1771
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:21,359
talking about. But it's Mike Bibbie, it's Paja Soyakovic, It's

1772
01:21:21,399 --> 01:21:24,359
Chris Weber, and it's Voladi Devots. Doug Christie is the

1773
01:21:24,399 --> 01:21:26,960
guy being left out. He was like the defensive two

1774
01:21:27,079 --> 01:21:29,079
that would make the occasional three on that team. But

1775
01:21:29,199 --> 01:21:32,479
like these four guys to me are like the Kings

1776
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,359
players of the century. Weber's the headliner. Multiple All NBA nods,

1777
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:38,720
he was like the twenty ten guy. Also one of

1778
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:42,039
the best passing bigs in the league, like basically for

1779
01:21:42,079 --> 01:21:45,199
his whole career. Him and Devots. Devots is the one

1780
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:49,199
where it's like really because he the numbers weren't all there,

1781
01:21:49,239 --> 01:21:52,560
but I think the way that he played specifically and

1782
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,439
combined with like what Rick Adelman did with those teams offensively,

1783
01:21:55,479 --> 01:21:58,079
are like why those Kings teams were successful. The ball,

1784
01:21:58,399 --> 01:22:01,119
the handoff games at the elbows, the like ball movement stuff.

1785
01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:03,359
I mean, it's weird that the Kings with Sabonis have

1786
01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:05,399
had success with the hand Like maybe they just need

1787
01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:07,039
a handoff big that's how you win.

1788
01:22:11,640 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1789
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,399
Speaker 2: Maybe Devots gets demerits for some of the drafting he

1790
01:22:14,439 --> 01:22:17,399
did while in charge of personnel decisions, but I think

1791
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,920
he like from a like a culture and like a

1792
01:22:20,079 --> 01:22:22,520
just how does this team play standpoint. I think Devots

1793
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,479
has to be here because he felt like a defining

1794
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,840
figure for me. So that's the four. I mean, I

1795
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:29,880
don't know if you you do just have to go

1796
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:33,600
into like less successful later teams and just find the

1797
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:38,760
best player for alternatives like Sibonis, Brad Miller. Everybody forgets

1798
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,479
like post post Devots Brad Miller had some very good

1799
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:44,920
years with the Kings, but no team success didn't pull

1800
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,039
from the sort of quote unquote modern era where you

1801
01:22:48,079 --> 01:22:50,640
could have like it's just like every guy you'd think,

1802
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,720
like DeMarcus Cousins, like just like.

1803
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:57,239
Speaker 1: Someone statistically you could look at and say maybe, like

1804
01:22:57,319 --> 01:22:58,920
now I'm not even saying you'd be my fifth pick,

1805
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,439
but that's the where the numbers just don't line up

1806
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:03,399
with the reputation with the kids.

1807
01:23:03,439 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 2: That's it, like the sprint if you if we did

1808
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,920
this just with a spreadsheet and you're like points, rebounds, assists, whatever,

1809
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:11,600
it's like, well, Cousins is on here, but like he

1810
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,960
was like in the way that devots was like the

1811
01:23:15,039 --> 01:23:17,920
positive tone setter for like what made those Kings teams great.

1812
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,479
Cousins was just like was the guy that was the

1813
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:23,399
reason they could never be good. It's just personality wise

1814
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:24,840
and leadership wise. Like did I.

1815
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:27,119
Speaker 1: Wonder I'll say this, I bet you if they never

1816
01:23:27,159 --> 01:23:30,760
filed Michael Malone that DeMarcus Cousins is on this list

1817
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,239
right now, that would be my whole prediction.

1818
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,560
Speaker 2: I just I just I was in that locker room

1819
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,000
a few times. I just don't I don't think so, Dan.

1820
01:23:39,239 --> 01:23:41,680
I hate to play that card, but I don't think so.

1821
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,039
Speaker 1: So your fifth would have been like Doug Christie, how

1822
01:23:45,039 --> 01:23:47,439
we were any of the modern day like who, honestly, I.

1823
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:50,359
Speaker 2: Think you'd I think you have to go Sabonis fifth.

1824
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:54,319
Just for the productions there he was, I mean, and

1825
01:23:54,399 --> 01:23:57,119
Fox is gone now and Fox missed more time to

1826
01:23:57,239 --> 01:24:01,560
Bonis was just like unbreakable, and the other successful era

1827
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:03,279
for the Kings was a couple of years ago, and

1828
01:24:03,319 --> 01:24:05,680
Sabonis was like the guy for that. So you know,

1829
01:24:06,279 --> 01:24:08,560
I think it might have been him. Oh, here we go,

1830
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:12,720
let's talk about it. I have the Spurs next. I

1831
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:15,479
said this, I said the Sons were the easiest one.

1832
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:20,479
This is right there. So Duncan Parker Ginobili like, no notes,

1833
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:23,239
it's they They're the big three on a team that

1834
01:24:23,279 --> 01:24:27,520
won multiple titles. Stylistically just some of the best basketball

1835
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,399
of my life. I still I still watched the Beautiful

1836
01:24:31,399 --> 01:24:34,279
Game YouTube, like seven minute clip on the Spurs a

1837
01:24:34,359 --> 01:24:36,560
minimum of like every six months, and I just get

1838
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:37,600
goosebumps every time.

1839
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 1: The ball movement on that thing is conkers.

1840
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 2: It's like it, you know, if I'm in the right mood,

1841
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,439
I could tear up watching the Beautiful Game Spurs YouTube video.

1842
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:48,439
I'll just say that about myself. Kawhi is the fourth

1843
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,000
he you know, he comes towards the tail end of

1844
01:24:51,079 --> 01:24:55,239
these three guys, but like prolongs the twenty years of success.

1845
01:24:55,279 --> 01:24:58,039
I would say because just as the best defensive player

1846
01:24:58,079 --> 01:25:00,000
in the league a couple of times before he leaves,

1847
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,920
develops into like a monster offensive player after most of

1848
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,000
these guys are gone to the point where he's like,

1849
01:25:07,039 --> 01:25:10,159
he's an MVP candidate towards the very end. So he

1850
01:25:10,239 --> 01:25:12,640
has to be there, and the other three are are.

1851
01:25:13,319 --> 01:25:15,640
I mean, there's no scenario where the other three are

1852
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:16,920
not on this list. I don't I don't know what

1853
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:17,520
else we'd do.

1854
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:20,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with your sentiments, right down to the

1855
01:25:20,199 --> 01:25:23,399
big beautiful game. So you might call it the the

1856
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:25,520
other thing they would be. This would be the franchise

1857
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:28,439
where it might be most interesting to build. What would

1858
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:31,520
the second team out rushmore look like? Who is who

1859
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:33,479
is then? Not like Wemby just already on it because

1860
01:25:33,479 --> 01:25:35,199
we never seen anything like him? Is it? Bruce Brown?

1861
01:25:35,319 --> 01:25:38,560
Danny Green? Who are the names that This is totally

1862
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:40,720
immaterial because these are the only four picks like, who

1863
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:44,159
are you coming in with as a case Over any

1864
01:25:44,199 --> 01:25:46,239
of these guys, I think would Danny Green have the

1865
01:25:46,279 --> 01:25:47,159
strongest as.

1866
01:25:47,039 --> 01:25:50,640
Speaker 2: A Danny Danny Green was my very first thought of like, well, yeah,

1867
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:53,079
it just has to be because just the perfect, the

1868
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:57,239
perfect three and D role player of that era. Just

1869
01:25:57,279 --> 01:26:00,560
like and it's easy I don't know maybe people listening

1870
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:04,920
or watching this remember, but like he was insane defensively,

1871
01:26:05,039 --> 01:26:07,119
like he was one of the best like chase down

1872
01:26:07,119 --> 01:26:09,960
block players like ever it's just like why why are

1873
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:11,560
you good at that? And he was. He could lock

1874
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:13,359
up point guards and twos and.

1875
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,159
Speaker 1: Just one titles wherever he went.

1876
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:18,520
Speaker 2: Basically it's not a quinc Danny Green is like the ultimate,

1877
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:21,039
like it's not a coincidence guy. Everywhere he went it

1878
01:26:21,119 --> 01:26:23,920
was just like you feel vital roles, so he would

1879
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:25,920
be on there. Maybe you throw like Paddy Miller, I

1880
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,359
mean Boris Diao again not there for a long time,

1881
01:26:28,399 --> 01:26:31,199
but was very much part of that beautiful game stuff.

1882
01:26:32,399 --> 01:26:34,920
David Robinson not there long enough in the two thousands,

1883
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:38,760
I mean Aldridge. Aldridge was great for them when he

1884
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,479
was there, but like not a ton of team success.

1885
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:43,600
You'd probably rule out De Rozan for the same reason

1886
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:46,920
I think they'd all come from like twenty fifteen and before.

1887
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think these are these are the only

1888
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,560
four picks that you can make this. Okay, we're on

1889
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,720
to the Raptors Mount Rush Morison's two thousand. Here are

1890
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:57,760
my picks, and then let's get into why I thought

1891
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,840
they were tough. I have Vince Carter, DeMar duros, Kawhi Leonard,

1892
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,640
and Kyle Lowry. I will not listen to any arguments

1893
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,600
against including Kyle Lowry, who is just the greatest Raptor

1894
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:07,159
of all time.

1895
01:27:07,279 --> 01:27:09,319
Speaker 2: He's the only one. I was like you, there's no

1896
01:27:09,399 --> 01:27:10,600
chance we argue about him.

1897
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:13,880
Speaker 1: The other thing is I will not listen to arguments

1898
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:16,880
against Kawhi Leonard being on this list. He hit one

1899
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,800
of the biggest shots in NBA playoff history and then

1900
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,319
was the Finals MVP on the Raptors's only title team. Like,

1901
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:28,000
that's just it might speak to the franchise's dearth of

1902
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:30,520
historical moments, but like you came in and did that,

1903
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:33,600
You're just going to make this list. That makes the

1904
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:37,119
rest of this list really tough, because I think Demarta

1905
01:27:37,159 --> 01:27:39,600
Rosen and Vince Carter are ultimately the right answers. Vince

1906
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,880
Carter was like an error unto himself. Vinceadity was so

1907
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,279
much more than his athleticism. They never had a ton

1908
01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:47,279
of success while he was there, but he was just

1909
01:27:47,319 --> 01:27:51,479
still in his heyday. Demarta Rosen wasn't on the Raptors

1910
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:53,520
title team. Did get them Kawhi who helped him get

1911
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:56,000
to the title, but you can't he's their leading scorer.

1912
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:59,119
You can't talk about the history of the Toronto Raptors

1913
01:27:59,399 --> 01:28:02,760
include tomorrow. But I will say, and I believe I

1914
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:06,199
was overthinking this. I initially had Pascal Siakam over Vince Carter.

1915
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,319
I looked at it as they made the same number

1916
01:28:08,319 --> 01:28:11,720
of all NBA teams. To Pascal Siakam won most improved

1917
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:14,520
Player and was the third most important player on a

1918
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,359
title team, which Vince couldn't be the best or second

1919
01:28:17,399 --> 01:28:19,600
most important player on a title team because those Toronto

1920
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,600
Raptors never got to that level. I ultimately think I

1921
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:26,239
probably was overthinking it in the context of this discussion

1922
01:28:26,359 --> 01:28:30,680
because Vince Carter, there are some complicated feelings when you

1923
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:32,560
look back on his time with the organization. It seems

1924
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,600
like they've hashed a bunch of them out, But like,

1925
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:38,039
do you remember Vince Carter on the rap Like that

1926
01:28:38,359 --> 01:28:41,319
was a point he was appointment viewing. That team was

1927
01:28:41,359 --> 01:28:44,520
appointment viewing because of him, and to have that type

1928
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:49,720
of singular force just even from a popularity or polarization standpoint,

1929
01:28:50,119 --> 01:28:53,119
Pascal Siakam never became that, and so I think I

1930
01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:56,439
was getting to, oh, look at the spreadsheet involved with

1931
01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:58,039
that one, what say you?

1932
01:28:59,039 --> 01:29:04,600
Speaker 2: So I wholeheartedly agree with like whatever I said about

1933
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:06,680
Blake Griffin and the clipper section and how it just

1934
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:11,079
became like you have to you have to know, like

1935
01:29:11,159 --> 01:29:14,520
what did he do last night? It Carter was that

1936
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:17,920
multiplied by a factor of like ten. It's just like

1937
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:20,760
the things he was doing just as a dunker I

1938
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:24,119
think put to I mean he is he in a

1939
01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:26,800
lot of senses. He is the Toronto Raptors singularly defining

1940
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:30,039
figure because he was there extremely early in their existence

1941
01:29:30,079 --> 01:29:33,199
and was just like the only thing most people knew

1942
01:29:33,239 --> 01:29:35,520
about the Raptors is they have this guy named Vince Carter,

1943
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,319
and he Dunk's really cool and is also good, but

1944
01:29:38,479 --> 01:29:42,399
like he is just the guy, Like I don't think

1945
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:46,159
the messy exit and the like decade plus of Raptors

1946
01:29:46,159 --> 01:29:48,560
fans not liking him and the way that he left,

1947
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,640
I don't think that detracts from just like exactly what

1948
01:29:52,159 --> 01:29:55,560
he meant and represented early in his career there. It's

1949
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:57,720
just there aren't a lot of teams that have a

1950
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,239
guy like him, where he was more of like he

1951
01:30:00,279 --> 01:30:03,039
was a phenomenon. Like it's just that that put this

1952
01:30:03,119 --> 01:30:05,800
franchise like made it relevant, even though those teams weren't

1953
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,479
even good like that matches they'd been good that that's

1954
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,680
a whole other thing. Like he just was singularly important.

1955
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: Is he part of the reason that we just remember

1956
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:16,640
those jerseys as iconic too?

1957
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the reason. I mean you who know, like

1958
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:22,039
Toronto seems to have drawn well, I'm sure there's a

1959
01:30:22,119 --> 01:30:24,600
Raptors fan that could correct me on that throughout, But

1960
01:30:24,760 --> 01:30:27,800
like if there's no Vince Carter, are we talking about

1961
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:32,680
like the the Seattle Raptors now or like the Nashville Raptor,

1962
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,359
Like are they there? You know, like if he doesn't

1963
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,079
make them like like kind of a world like it's

1964
01:30:38,079 --> 01:30:41,479
certainly a national phenomenon, like there was nothing. I don't know,

1965
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:42,199
I'm over.

1966
01:30:42,239 --> 01:30:43,520
Speaker 1: Attribute it to Marcus can Be.

1967
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:48,439
Speaker 2: So you're you've always been a Damon stodamire guy, Tracy

1968
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:52,199
mo Pete, you're a big Morris Peterson fan. Yeah, Carter

1969
01:30:52,279 --> 01:30:55,199
has to be there. Siakam, I get especially if you're like, well,

1970
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,399
Raptors fans still don't like Vince Carter Siakam. Everybody was

1971
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:00,880
good with It's just has to be Vince.

1972
01:31:01,239 --> 01:31:04,199
Speaker 1: I actually wonder though, if Raptor sans would bounce Kawhi

1973
01:31:04,239 --> 01:31:06,560
if they were to say Siakam or someone else has

1974
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:07,119
to be in here.

1975
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:10,039
Speaker 2: If you have one title and he's the sole reason

1976
01:31:10,079 --> 01:31:12,720
you got it, like he just you can't that shot.

1977
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,319
Speaker 1: Do you remember watching him hit that shot against the Sixers?

1978
01:31:15,319 --> 01:31:17,760
How many times? Like just the balance and in like

1979
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:22,199
his his crouching stance which corner. Yeah, just like I

1980
01:31:22,239 --> 01:31:23,760
was waring he's gonna injure his knee. I was like, dude,

1981
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:24,800
get up, that's too deep.

1982
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,800
Speaker 2: Get out of that squad. I got the Utah Jazz

1983
01:31:29,079 --> 01:31:33,600
next or final Western Conference team. This They've had some

1984
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,720
weird They've had a number of fairly successful eras and

1985
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:40,439
that made this hard. Rudy Gobert was the easiest pick

1986
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,359
multiple defensive player of the years. I think from a

1987
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,319
like driving team success standpoint, he was the best player

1988
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:52,880
on the like Conley, Mitchell, Royce O'Neill. Who else is there, Bogdanovic,

1989
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:56,720
Jazz teams that like did finish first in offense, a

1990
01:31:56,760 --> 01:31:59,239
couple like they were monsters for that stretch that group

1991
01:31:59,359 --> 01:32:03,439
was together. Go Bear's the representative there. Andre Kierlinko one

1992
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:07,479
of the great forgotten players of the century. Injuries kind

1993
01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,359
of knocked him off, you know, fairly early. But like

1994
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:14,600
the stat I came across dan he had two seasons

1995
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:16,880
where he averaged over three blocks per game. Go Bear

1996
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,199
has never been above two point seven. It was just

1997
01:32:19,239 --> 01:32:23,000
like how good he Kierlinka was a monster defender, had

1998
01:32:23,039 --> 01:32:25,800
a bunch of five by five games, like nobody was

1999
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:26,279
doing that.

2000
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,039
Speaker 1: He's not that I hate to say, he's like one

2001
01:32:29,079 --> 01:32:32,039
of those you know, ball players because remember when Cooper

2002
01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:34,399
Flagg was drawing cops to him and people were talking

2003
01:32:34,399 --> 01:32:36,560
about how it'shulting that was, and it very well maybe,

2004
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:37,640
but it's like it's also.

2005
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:41,319
Speaker 2: Not you right, Like he just like one of the

2006
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:45,960
singular most disrupt like just like ruined everything for an

2007
01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:47,359
offense when he was out there because he was a

2008
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,800
high steels guy. He could move his feet. He would

2009
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,760
block every like. He was just ridiculous. So I had

2010
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,720
to have him there. It's interesting that the Jazz have

2011
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:58,720
had such like era defining defenders on their team. The

2012
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:02,439
other two I packed him together, Darren Williams Carlos Boozer.

2013
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:05,079
Not a ton of team success. But Williams has four

2014
01:33:05,119 --> 01:33:07,720
thousand assists this century. That's twice as many as any

2015
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:11,279
other jazz player in that stretch. So like, even though

2016
01:33:11,319 --> 01:33:13,840
maybe some people think about him as a net I don't.

2017
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,680
He was just there was a long conversation I think

2018
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:18,880
for a while there of like, is Darren Williams actually

2019
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:20,880
better than Chris Paul because they were in the same

2020
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,319
draft class and it wasn't settled right away. It obviously

2021
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:28,479
fell in Paul's favor pretty firmly, but he was excellent

2022
01:33:28,600 --> 01:33:32,000
a boozer. Boozer is the guy I could understand moving.

2023
01:33:32,039 --> 01:33:35,119
But he made a couple of All Star Games. He's

2024
01:33:35,159 --> 01:33:38,119
the only twenty ten guy that's not named you know,

2025
01:33:38,159 --> 01:33:40,600
that's not Carl Malone, who doesn't count here. John Stockton,

2026
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:42,439
by the way, Stockton h MA alone played like a

2027
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:45,000
couple of years in the two thousands, like three themselves.

2028
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:49,079
What it was Yeah, so they weren't there if you

2029
01:33:49,119 --> 01:33:52,680
were dropping. If you're dropping someone, is it Boozer? And

2030
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:55,319
are you gonna replace him with like Mitchell or somebody

2031
01:33:55,359 --> 01:33:57,720
like that, because I toyed with that, but I couldn't

2032
01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:58,079
get there.

2033
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:01,279
Speaker 1: I think you could. It's also bizarre that like Gordon

2034
01:34:01,319 --> 01:34:03,760
Hayward wouldn't pop up in this discussion, like they have

2035
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:07,359
a lot of actually these jazz teams throughout history even

2036
01:34:07,399 --> 01:34:10,279
recent vintage, like they have a lot of really good players.

2037
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:14,279
Speaker 2: Paul Millsap, Derek Favors are real considerations there?

2038
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: Do you think just because or maybe I'm just not

2039
01:34:18,039 --> 01:34:20,159
waiting how good the teams might have been with some

2040
01:34:20,239 --> 01:34:22,640
of these other guys on there. But like I clearly

2041
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:26,239
most remember the Rudy Gobert Donovan Mitchell era teams just

2042
01:34:26,279 --> 01:34:29,119
we thought they were cap slot contenders. Like That's why

2043
01:34:29,159 --> 01:34:31,159
I'm just wondering, should Donovan Mitchell belong here.

2044
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:35,760
Speaker 2: I think statistically Mitchell doesn't have the numbers. I think

2045
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:38,439
he's like eighth or ninth, maybe tenth in win shares

2046
01:34:39,159 --> 01:34:41,680
for the Jazz since two thousand, but he was there

2047
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:45,159
for one two. I mean it's five, it's it's five

2048
01:34:45,239 --> 01:34:47,399
full seasons. He was an All Star for three of them,

2049
01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:51,960
average twenty every year. Was like the go to scorer

2050
01:34:52,119 --> 01:34:54,760
on on some of those really good Jazz offenses. Yeah,

2051
01:34:55,039 --> 01:34:57,000
I think maybe we do. Just it would have to

2052
01:34:57,039 --> 01:35:00,800
be Mitchell. I think if you're gonna knock Boozer off

2053
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:04,920
of there, I don't know there's a case for that

2054
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:09,640
for sure. I always package Boozer and d Will together

2055
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,279
for some reason. So maybe that was it.

2056
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:13,600
Speaker 1: The Jazz were a good kind of tough just because

2057
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:15,960
I think they have a lot of viable options. Final

2058
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,640
team best they're Mount Rushmore Washington Wizards is two thousand.

2059
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:23,279
I have Gilberterenas, Bradley Beal, John Waller just the Locks.

2060
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:26,039
Bradley Beal and John wall have like two top two

2061
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:29,000
all time franchise like spots where John wall leads the

2062
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:31,720
franchise and assists Bradley Beal's second all time in points.

2063
01:35:32,079 --> 01:35:34,920
Gilbertarenas just electric player while he was there and made

2064
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:38,800
all NBA teams. Was a megastar for a lot of

2065
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:41,199
his time with the Wizards. Then it gets a little dicey,

2066
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,359
but Anton Jamison just scored a bunch of points and

2067
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,680
also led the like this era in rebounds too. And

2068
01:35:47,720 --> 01:35:51,279
he's also kind of when people talk about I'm not

2069
01:35:51,359 --> 01:35:53,159
the greatest score of a generation, but he's just like

2070
01:35:53,239 --> 01:35:55,880
chilling at like number forty three all time in points scored,

2071
01:35:56,199 --> 01:35:58,239
like his laun jet. That's not just for the Wizards.

2072
01:35:58,279 --> 01:35:59,960
I think he's actually eighth. He's in the top ten

2073
01:36:00,039 --> 01:36:01,960
of scoring all time for the Wizards. We're just actually

2074
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:05,039
pretty insane. He had a bunch of points and was

2075
01:36:05,039 --> 01:36:06,880
able to grab rebounds, and I think he was there

2076
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:09,600
for like a good chunk of time that he's the

2077
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,840
right pick here. I think when you get into some

2078
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:13,760
of the better teams where you know and that's also

2079
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:15,680
why Bradley Beal and John Wall are no brainers here

2080
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:18,960
is they're just they were the cornerstones of the last

2081
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,439
time we remember the Wizards is just a threat if

2082
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:24,399
you wanted to talk about Brendan Haywood, Marchhine, Gore, Todt

2083
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,279
like outto Porter kron Butler like when now with Larry

2084
01:36:28,359 --> 01:36:30,520
Hughes eating Tomas like now, we're really who else is

2085
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,319
on here that you would need to think about? So

2086
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,399
there's probably room for interpretation on the fourth spot, But

2087
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:37,439
I don't know who I would go with if it

2088
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:38,560
wasn't Anton Jamison.

2089
01:36:39,279 --> 01:36:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Jamison just has the like Again, having

2090
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:46,920
watched a lot of Anton Jamison in my lifetime, he

2091
01:36:47,039 --> 01:36:50,119
is very much like the empty stats guy. But they

2092
01:36:50,159 --> 01:36:52,119
are what they are, like he I mean, this is

2093
01:36:52,119 --> 01:36:54,199
a guy that, like he's had back to back fifty

2094
01:36:54,199 --> 01:36:57,880
point games, not as a wizard, but like the buckets happened.

2095
01:36:58,199 --> 01:37:01,319
When Anton Jamison was in the game, he was a

2096
01:37:01,359 --> 01:37:03,840
highly like just just productive. I don't know how much

2097
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,680
it meant. The guy I would think about uh is

2098
01:37:06,760 --> 01:37:12,159
Karan Butler because his APEX, which would have been maybe

2099
01:37:12,199 --> 01:37:14,319
like five. He was with the team from five oh

2100
01:37:14,399 --> 01:37:16,960
six to eight oh nine and got traded the following year,

2101
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:20,039
so like not a not like a wasn't there for

2102
01:37:20,079 --> 01:37:23,720
a long time, but averaged nineteen six and like nineteen

2103
01:37:23,840 --> 01:37:26,840
seven and four during that stretch and made two All

2104
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:29,239
Star Games and got dpo Y votes in one of those.

2105
01:37:29,279 --> 01:37:33,079
There was a second where Karan Butler was like, you know,

2106
01:37:33,119 --> 01:37:35,800
who might be one of the five best like two

2107
01:37:35,880 --> 01:37:38,399
way players in the league, and he you know, this

2108
01:37:38,479 --> 01:37:41,079
is where talk Kobe's around, like Lebron is there. But

2109
01:37:41,119 --> 01:37:43,279
then you'd get down the list a little bit like Karn.

2110
01:37:43,319 --> 01:37:47,119
Butler's actually like like like Kierlinko was your do you

2111
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:50,119
know ball like defensive guy. I think Butler for a

2112
01:37:50,159 --> 01:37:52,760
second was the guy that you'd you'd cite as like

2113
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:54,840
you know, who's actually really good that you don't know

2114
01:37:54,880 --> 01:37:57,960
about that? He was that guy. The numbers are nowhere

2115
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,920
close to Jamison, so I won't fight too hard on that. Also,

2116
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:04,000
the Wizards have just absolute crap to pick from for me.

2117
01:38:04,119 --> 01:38:07,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, Javal McGee, Javal McGee. We got Andre Blasch. Look, honestly,

2118
01:38:08,039 --> 01:38:09,920
do you think some people this would not would have

2119
01:38:09,920 --> 01:38:12,119
been me been like, well, Michael Jordan played two seasons

2120
01:38:12,119 --> 01:38:14,479
and one like we just pick him?

2121
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:16,640
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean he's in the he counts it was

2122
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:17,520
after two thousand.

2123
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:18,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't.

2124
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:21,479
Speaker 2: I'm marching gretat because without his illegal screen the screen access,

2125
01:38:22,359 --> 01:38:24,479
John Wall wouldn't have been as good. Yeah, I don't know.

2126
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:27,760
Auto Porter wasn't there for didn't do enough. Yeah, I

2127
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:29,760
think it's gotta be the first three or easy. I

2128
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,920
think Jamison is fine at the fourth. I would advocate

2129
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:33,520
like Butler.

2130
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:36,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Butler would be the toughest cut there.

2131
01:38:36,199 --> 01:38:38,840
All right, we did it, Grant and if you're listening

2132
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:40,640
to the full episode rather than the clips that are

2133
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:43,279
on Bleacher Report. We did this and what under a

2134
01:38:43,279 --> 01:38:46,399
buck forty five? That's and after editing, when I delete

2135
01:38:46,399 --> 01:38:47,880
some of the silences, we might be like under a

2136
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:49,399
buck forty three look at us?

2137
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, can you delete? Uh? Like some of my picks

2138
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:55,439
that were bad too, and just just a I to

2139
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,119
cover for it and and you know, replace him.

2140
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:01,960
Speaker 1: Nope, Nope, there forever. That's the beauty of this podcast. Everything,

2141
01:39:02,079 --> 01:39:03,079
Everything is forever.

2142
01:39:04,199 --> 01:39:06,800
Speaker 2: Well, Dan, thank you for doing engaging in this exercise

2143
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:08,800
with me. I don't know about you, but I really

2144
01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:10,920
enjoy when I get to go back and think about, like,

2145
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:13,119
you know, who is awesome in two thousand and nine.

2146
01:39:13,279 --> 01:39:16,560
That's always a fun exercise. You remember guys like Kierlinko

2147
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:18,239
and Coron Butler, So that's.

2148
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: It's fun sometimes. But then with certain franchises it's just

2149
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:23,239
like the Hornets, it's just not very fun.

2150
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:26,600
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't fun for them either, So you guys

2151
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,720
can commiserate. Anything else to add before we get out

2152
01:39:28,720 --> 01:39:28,960
of here.

2153
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:31,720
Speaker 1: Now, Look, if you've this is your first time checking

2154
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:33,199
us out, and you've watched or listened to the end,

2155
01:39:33,199 --> 01:39:35,560
why have you not subscribed already, Yeah, check out our

2156
01:39:36,399 --> 01:39:38,119
If this is coming out, it will come out during

2157
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:41,079
our look Ahead series, so go. We're previewing every single

2158
01:39:41,119 --> 01:39:44,119
NBA team with a guest, so go check those out.

2159
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, do all the things, rate review, subscribe. If you've

2160
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,199
seen this on YouTube, let us know who we who

2161
01:39:49,239 --> 01:39:52,000
you would add, and who you would exclude if you disagree.

2162
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 1: You think we have like an egregious like neither of

2163
01:39:54,079 --> 01:39:55,439
us just caught.

2164
01:39:56,479 --> 01:40:00,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dwight, Dwight Powell's got a giant like crossairs on

2165
01:40:00,039 --> 01:40:03,640
on him. For math fans, I'm sure that's okay. Thanks

2166
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:05,680
again everybody for listening, for watching. Tell your friends, Tell

2167
01:40:05,720 --> 01:40:08,359
your enemies. Shouts Franklin, lookin. Apologies, Jared