Speaker 1: Mass shootings have become somewhat of an epidemic in places
Speaker 1: such as North America, but just because they are more
Speaker 1: prominent in certain places does not mean other nations around
Speaker 1: the world have not experienced the same pain from these
Speaker 1: tragic events. In nineteen ninety six, Australia would experience the
Speaker 1: worst mass shooting in their history, with one monster gunning
Speaker 1: down anyone in their path. To date, the event has
Speaker 1: left a scar on their country's history, and that day
Speaker 1: has forever been known as the Port Arthur Massacre.
Speaker 2: My name is Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked Ingram, a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: The following material for a mature audience listener discretion lies.
Speaker 1: This is one hell of a case. I'm warning you
Speaker 1: right now. There's a lot to this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you spent you know, I feel like quite
Speaker 2: a bit longer on this case than you normally do.
Speaker 1: So I did for it, spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: really doing my due diligence in the research and getting
Speaker 1: the timeline as best as I could. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: jaw dropping event. It's massive. It's not one casualty, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: there's many. But what there's also many of is Patreon
Speaker 1: subscribers that we have that support this show.
Speaker 2: Wow, what good job.
Speaker 1: So we always thank our patrons who sign up and
Speaker 1: support the show, and this week we had b sign
Speaker 1: up and support us over on the Patreon platform. So
Speaker 1: thank you very much. Sam appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You want to join Sam and everyone else? Link is
Speaker 1: down below in the description of this podcast, you can
Speaker 1: sign up get that all the good behind the scenes
Speaker 1: and extra episodes.
Speaker 2: All the good stuff and all that.
Speaker 1: Good good, but enough chatter. This is a big episode.
Speaker 1: I could have easily have done two parts to this.
Speaker 1: We're doing a single part to this episode, so it
Speaker 1: might be a bit of a longer one, depending on
Speaker 1: how much WeChat. We chitchat are some of the things
Speaker 1: we want to discuss about it. But I think I'm
Speaker 1: just ready to dive in.
Speaker 2: If you are too, Yeah, let's door.
Speaker 1: You have no what's the word objections to it?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: No? Okay, Well let's start the story. So the story
Speaker 1: of Port Arthur is one filled with you know, it's
Speaker 1: a very long history. It is a town and former
Speaker 1: convict settlement that exists on Tasmania Pensula Peninsula. There we
Speaker 1: go in Tasmania Australia, where it is located approximately ninety
Speaker 1: seven kilometers southeast of the state capital, Hobert. Now. It
Speaker 1: was originally named after a man by the name of
Speaker 1: George Arthur, who is the Lieutenant Governor of Van Diemen's
Speaker 1: Land when the settlement started in eighteen thirty, but it
Speaker 1: is best known for being a penal colony. However, aside
Speaker 1: from the historical aspect of Port Arthur, it has become
Speaker 1: famous and very well known across Australia and the world
Speaker 1: alike for a very dark reason. Port Arthur is home
Speaker 1: to the largest mass shooting Australia has ever seen, known
Speaker 1: as the Port Arthur Massacre. At around one ten pm
Speaker 1: on April twenty eighth and nineteen ninety six, twenty nine
Speaker 1: year old Martin Bryant arrived at the Port Arthur tourist
Speaker 1: site after paying the entry fee. He initially parked his
Speaker 1: vehicle near the Broad Arrow Cafe close to the waterfront.
Speaker 1: The site's security manager noticed Brian had or sorry noticed
Speaker 1: Martin Bryant had parked in a spot designated for camper events.
Speaker 1: He instructed him to relocate his car to a different spot,
Speaker 1: different parking area, and Martin complied, yeah, okay, no problem, right,
Speaker 1: and he went to move his car, but he soon
Speaker 1: after a moment of just sitting in his car, turned
Speaker 1: his car around and parked near the cafe once again.
Speaker 1: Now the security manager noticed this, but didn't really say much, Right, okay, whatever,
Speaker 1: it's a fairly busy day that they're dealing with today,
Speaker 1: busier than normal, so he just kind of whatever, just
Speaker 1: moved on doing what they're doing, right, fair enough, So
Speaker 1: Martin sat in his car for several minutes before getting
Speaker 1: out and doing something in the back seat and then
Speaker 1: in the trunk of his car before heading towards the cafe.
Speaker 1: And when he was heading to the cafe, the security
Speaker 1: guard actually noticed he was carrying a sports bag type
Speaker 1: Duffel bag and he's headed to go have a seat,
Speaker 1: so as he ignored this, and as the man walked up.
Speaker 1: He goes inside and Martin ordered a meal and took
Speaker 1: it to the outside at a table that was on
Speaker 1: the the sun deck the cafe sun deck. He sat
Speaker 1: down with his bag and placed it on the ground
Speaker 1: next to him and placed his meal on the table
Speaker 1: in front of him. During his meal, he briefly engaged
Speaker 1: other visitors in some small talk conversation, mentioning the scarcity
Speaker 1: of wasps this year out there not a whole lot
Speaker 1: being around and the fewer number of Japanese tourists compared
Speaker 1: to usual as well that they see on the site.
Speaker 1: It was mostly just small talk, you know, just little
Speaker 1: things whatever he could, right, and just having casual conversations
Speaker 1: as he's you know, just enjoying the meal in the cafe.
Speaker 1: It's not not any different than what a lot of
Speaker 1: cafe individuals do. You know, if you're going there, you're
Speaker 1: not reading a book or on your phone or laptop,
Speaker 1: you know, you often make mention of something to someone
Speaker 1: around you. Hey, you know, I like your jacket or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, honestly, I feel like that seems super friendly.
Speaker 1: Well it is, and I mean this is in the
Speaker 1: nineties as well, like today with a bit more technology,
Speaker 1: there is a bit less of.
Speaker 2: That, yes, because I'm often at cafes like working, so
Speaker 2: I wouldn't look like I'm very approachable necessarily anymore.
Speaker 1: And I don't think someone's about to approach someone who's
Speaker 1: busy in that manner, right, Yeah. But like, for example,
Speaker 1: if someone's sitting here reading a book and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I also read books by that author. You know, they
Speaker 1: might strike up a conversation. Yeah, more so again in
Speaker 1: that era than today. But so that's kind of what
Speaker 1: was going on, just striking up casual conversation with those
Speaker 1: around him as he's there enjoying his meal. Now, throughout
Speaker 1: this time, his behavior was noted to be a bit strange.
Speaker 1: Outside of just being a bit friendly. He appeared a
Speaker 1: little bit anxious and was frequently glancing back at his
Speaker 1: car and went back at where it was parked, and
Speaker 1: then also back inside the cafe. So this cafe, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if I mentioned it's named the Broad Arrow Cafe.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I said that or not, but
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: It isn't exactly a large place, this cafe. It's a
Speaker 1: typical small, you know cafe, you grab cup of coffee,
Speaker 1: bite to eat whatever. Right, and today being a very
Speaker 1: particularly busy day, as I already mentioned, it was filled
Speaker 1: with patrons, which made Martin's next move all the more horrifying.
Speaker 1: As he was finishing up his food, Martin reached into
Speaker 1: the sports style duffelbag and he brought out what he
Speaker 1: had grabbed from the car. It was an AR fifteen
Speaker 1: semi automatic assault rifle.
Speaker 2: Oh Man yes.
Speaker 1: With the rifle now in his hands, Martin stood up,
Speaker 1: turned to the table beside him, presumably some of the
Speaker 1: individuals he was just making a small talk with brutal
Speaker 1: and began firing at them. Holy shit, without a moment
Speaker 1: to react. Mo Yi Nig and Sue Leng Chung, who
Speaker 1: were visitors from Malaysia, found themselves at Martin's first or
Speaker 1: as Martin's first victims of the day, as they were
Speaker 1: shot and killed right there in the cafe. As they
Speaker 1: laid there, their blood spilling out under the ground, Martin
Speaker 1: then began his horrific rampage onto others. He continued firing
Speaker 1: his rifle at any one he saw inside the cafe.
Speaker 1: He fired a shot at Mixed Sergeant and the bullet
Speaker 1: just grazed his scalp and knocked him to the floor.
Speaker 1: Martin then shot Mick Sergeant's girlfriend right in front of him,
Speaker 1: twenty one year old Kate Elizabeth Scott, hitting her in
Speaker 1: the back of the head, killing her instantly.
Speaker 2: Geez.
Speaker 1: The rampage continued, and he did not discriminate between any
Speaker 1: of the people he saw. Anthony Nightgale forty four, stood
Speaker 1: up and shouted no, not here, and he was fatally
Speaker 1: shot by Martin, who hit him in the neck and spine.
Speaker 1: Martin also shot sixty eight year old Kevin Vincent Sharp,
Speaker 1: who was killed instantly. Another shot struck sixty six year
Speaker 1: old Walter Bennett, passing through him and hitting a man
Speaker 1: behind him by the name of Raymond John Sharp sixty seven,
Speaker 1: killing both men. Bullets continued to fly, striking, killing and
Speaker 1: injuring more victims. Some turned to run, and others hit
Speaker 1: under the tables or attempted to shield others from certain death.
Speaker 1: The list of victims Martin affected is far too long
Speaker 1: to cover in this podcast, so for the sake of brevity,
Speaker 1: we will cover all of those names whose lives were
Speaker 1: lost at the end of this episode. What gets me
Speaker 1: the most, though, is how it seems Martin did not
Speaker 1: care who he was killing. Already said he didn't discriminate. No,
Speaker 1: and this also includes children.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, Like, what the fuck is happening here?
Speaker 1: Martin fired at a family inside the cafe where Graham Colier,
Speaker 1: Carolyn Lawton, and her daughter Sarah were seated. Colier was
Speaker 1: shot in the jaw. Carolyn tried to protect her daughter,
Speaker 1: but Martin shot Carolyn in the back, rupturing her ear drum. Tragically,
Speaker 1: Sarah was fatally shot in the head despite her mother's efforts.
Speaker 1: Sarah was fifteen years old. Oh my gosh, Wow, the
Speaker 1: events inside the cafe unfolded within a matter of approximately
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds. Seriously, everything I just sa described was only
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds it took for that to occur, Holy shit,
Speaker 1: during which Martin had fired a total of seventeen shots,
Speaker 1: killing twelve people and wounding ten others. Fifteen seconds, killed
Speaker 1: twelve people in fifteen seconds.
Speaker 2: Wha. That is honestly just mind blowing. Like, did even
Speaker 2: try to comprehend that, just as it just seems so impossible.
Speaker 1: Those fifteen seconds. I bet you felt like fifteen fucking minutes.
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine being in there. That would have been
Speaker 1: scary as shit.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, just like this perse like, uh, it's such
Speaker 2: you would just never think that that would happen, Right,
Speaker 2: if you're out there enjoying like a nice day or
Speaker 2: whatever and a coffee and then oh, like that is
Speaker 2: this fucking nightmare.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the last thing you would expect, especially from
Speaker 1: someone like I said, who's just at the table next
Speaker 1: to you, just enjoying a meal, having small talk with you,
Speaker 1: being like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of less Japanese
Speaker 1: tourists this year. I wonder if you know, they maybe
Speaker 1: were sending boat a little bit later or something in
Speaker 1: the season. Who knows, right, yeah, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden he pulls out an AR fifteen and just
Speaker 1: unloads on you, like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: You wouldn't even have a minute to comprehend it or thing?
Speaker 1: No, I don't done. I have a feeling there are
Speaker 1: some individuals who that did pass away who did not.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah anything, what even was happening?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were there one moment and then they weren't.
Speaker 1: They weren't. So from the cafe, Martin then moved on
Speaker 1: to the gift shop. Many who were there used the
Speaker 1: time from the initial bullet firing.
Speaker 2: He's not done.
Speaker 1: Oh no, he's just getting started.
Speaker 2: Oh shoot, I thought we were okay.
Speaker 1: No, that was the first fifteen seconds.
Speaker 2: Holy I thought that was like fifteen seconds and done
Speaker 2: kind of thing. Move on here.
Speaker 1: Nope. He moved on to the gift shop, and those
Speaker 1: who were in the gift shop used the time those
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds to try and hide under the tables behind
Speaker 1: shop displays whatever they could, but it was no use.
Speaker 1: He immediately fatally shot two local women who worked in
Speaker 1: the gift shop, seventeen year old Nicholas are Sorry Nicole
Speaker 1: Burgess in the head and twenty six year old Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Howard in the arm and chest. Some tried to make
Speaker 1: a run for it, but Martin didn't care and fired
Speaker 1: his rifle right into the back as they tried to run.
Speaker 1: For a brief moment, Martin turned his attention back to
Speaker 1: the cafe, where he shot a man by the name
Speaker 1: of Peter who was trying to hide under a table.
Speaker 1: In this moment, a man by the name of Jason
Speaker 1: Winter thought Martin had left the room because he had
Speaker 1: turned his attention back to the cafe. Thinking this was
Speaker 1: an opportunity to escape and move out into the open,
Speaker 1: he tried to make a run. Martin, however, was standing
Speaker 1: right there and saw Jason stand up immediately. Jason's last
Speaker 1: words were allegedly no, no, as Martin opened fired on him,
Speaker 1: with bullets hitting his hand which was out in a
Speaker 1: defensive position, ye his neck, chest, and finally a fatal
Speaker 1: one in the head. The sequence of events that followed
Speaker 1: is not entirely clear. As many of those who were
Speaker 1: present did not survive to tell their experience, but at
Speaker 1: some point Martin reloaded his weapon. He returned to the
Speaker 1: cafe before heading back to the gift shop. There he
Speaker 1: fatally shot Ronald Jerry, Peter Nash, and Pauline Masters. He however,
Speaker 1: did not see Carolyn Nash lying hidden beneath her deceased
Speaker 1: husband Peter, and went unnoticed by Martin.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So in the midst of that reloading, he left
Speaker 1: an empty magazine on the counter and then finally exited
Speaker 1: the building. In the cafe and gift shop combined, he
Speaker 1: fired twenty nine shots, killed twenty people and wounded twelve more.
Speaker 1: Martin then headed towards the parking lot in front of
Speaker 1: the cafe building, and seeing the armed men approaching, people
Speaker 1: started running and trying to hide. Now, initially, the security
Speaker 1: guard who saw this happen, heard the shots start and
Speaker 1: went running up there, thinking there was like an electrical problem, Like,
Speaker 1: who would have thought that it was bullets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your mind would just kind of think that it's
Speaker 2: something else.
Speaker 1: So he thought there was like electrical pops happening, it's
Speaker 1: shortening out, And then he saw the firing happening, and
Speaker 1: then he bolted away trying to get other people to safety,
Speaker 1: get out of here, run. But initially people thought this
Speaker 1: was like some sort of like reenactment or like some
Speaker 1: sort of like show that was being put on, So
Speaker 1: it took him a bit to get people to get moving. No, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: And I read an article where that security supervisor or
Speaker 1: manager was questioning if he should have gone into the
Speaker 1: cafe to try and like take out Martin because hindsight
Speaker 1: what he ended up doing. He's like, if only I
Speaker 1: could have taken him out, maybe it would have played
Speaker 1: out different. But I mean, I don't I don't think
Speaker 1: he could have done anything. You have a man with
Speaker 1: an era of fifteen, he would have seen.
Speaker 2: He would have just honestly gotten shot instantly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, So I don't think he needs to
Speaker 1: second guess anything he did. I'm pretty sure he probably
Speaker 1: did save some lives by rallying people to move them on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so props to him for doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's such a terrible feeling though, Hey, like
Speaker 2: where you think that you you should have done something
Speaker 2: else or could have done.
Speaker 1: Regret for sure, But I don't think he should have
Speaker 1: no regrets, because I guarantee you he did save lives
Speaker 1: that day.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Martin exited the building and headed towards the parking
Speaker 1: lot in front of the cafe, and people were running
Speaker 1: and trying to hide seeing him approach. Among them was
Speaker 1: Royce Thompson, a bus driver. Martin shot Thompson in the
Speaker 1: back as he moved along the passenger side of the bus.
Speaker 1: Although Thompson managed to crawl under the bus to hide,
Speaker 1: he ultimately succumbed to his injuries, and chaos erupted as
Speaker 1: people desperately sought cover among the park tourist buses. Aware
Speaker 1: of their strategy, Martin circled around the buses until he
Speaker 1: found a group of people seeking refuge. Just as before,
Speaker 1: he began firing at the group, further adding to the
Speaker 1: growing list of casualties. Everything continued, but eventually Martin made
Speaker 1: his way back to his car to exchange his rifle
Speaker 1: for another, this time an L one A one self
Speaker 1: loading rifle. He turned back and picked up where he
Speaker 1: left off. He shot a woman by the name of
Speaker 1: Janet Quinn in the back and then chased after her husband,
Speaker 1: Neville Quinn. Martin shot at him at least twice before
Speaker 1: Quinn ran onto a bus in a desperate attempt to
Speaker 1: find cover from the bullets. Martin, however, followed him. Once
Speaker 1: on the bus, he pointed the gun in nevill Quinn's face, saying, quote,
Speaker 1: no one gets away from me.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm like shocked that he actually went like he would.
Speaker 2: It seemed like he kind of just like zoned in
Speaker 2: on people and then they were his next target and
Speaker 2: they finished, and he finished them and then went on
Speaker 2: to the next.
Speaker 1: Just whoever he saw. He's like, yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 1: kill you. Yeah, I'm going to kill you.
Speaker 2: But I feel like, yeah, like that when I'm surprised
Speaker 2: he went on the bus after him and didn't just
Speaker 2: like move on to someone that was easier or whatever.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm not too sure why, but he definitely honed
Speaker 1: in on Neville and like I said, his quote, no
Speaker 1: one gets away from me disgusting. Now, After Martin was
Speaker 1: finished in the parking lot near the buses, he headed
Speaker 1: back to his car and drove towards the exit of
Speaker 1: the historical site. Ahead of him in the middle of
Speaker 1: the road was a woman by the name of Nanette mccac.
Speaker 1: She was with her two children, Madeline, who was three
Speaker 1: and Elena, who was six. Nnette was trying to make
Speaker 1: a run from the horrors of what was assuing in
Speaker 1: an attempt to save her two children lives. She was
Speaker 1: carrying Madeline and Elena was running slightly ahead. By this point,
Speaker 1: they had run approximately six hundred meters from the parking lot,
Speaker 1: only to have Martin pull up right behind them. He
Speaker 1: slowed down and opened his door. Nenette didn't panic or
Speaker 1: find herself screaming in fear, though, and stead she moved
Speaker 1: towards the car because she thought the driver was another
Speaker 1: person who was trying to escape and was stopping to
Speaker 1: offer her and her children help. Instead of help, though,
Speaker 1: she found herself face to face with a monster. As
Speaker 1: Martin stepped out of the car, A gun was pointed
Speaker 1: directly at Nnette, and Martin told her to get to
Speaker 1: her knees. She had no other choice but to do
Speaker 1: as he said, hoping and praying that she would find
Speaker 1: mercy once in the ground. She didn't find mercy, though.
Speaker 1: Martin held the gun up to her temple and pulled
Speaker 1: the trigger, killing Thennette instantly, with her two little girls watching.
Speaker 1: He then turned his attention to them and faintly shot
Speaker 1: both the girls, three year old Madeline and six year
Speaker 1: old Lena.
Speaker 2: Good God, what a frickin monster. I didn't expect that
Speaker 2: to play out like that For some reason.
Speaker 1: You thought it was done after the cafe, and here
Speaker 1: we are. He's still going like.
Speaker 2: Where like we're at. I'm a lot of victims, Holly.
Speaker 1: Martin got back in his car and continued to drive
Speaker 1: up the up to the toll booth, and at the
Speaker 1: exit he exited the historical site, where there were several
Speaker 1: vehicles at the exit. Though here Martin shot and killed
Speaker 1: a few more people, including Nixon and Helen Salzman. He
Speaker 1: pulled their lifeless bodies from the BMW vehicle that they
Speaker 1: were driving and transferred his belongings into the car, including ammunition, handcuffs,
Speaker 1: the AR fifteen rifle he started with, and the fuel container.
Speaker 1: Martin then drove to a service station at the front
Speaker 1: of Port Arthur Jen Store, where he blocked the exit
Speaker 1: of a white Toyota Corolla attempting to merge onto the highway.
Speaker 1: Glenn Peers was the man driving that car, with his
Speaker 1: girlfriend Zoe Hall in the pasture seat. Martin swiftly exited
Speaker 1: his vehicle, armed with the rifle and attempted to pull
Speaker 1: Hall from the Corolla. Glenn got out and approached Martin,
Speaker 1: who then pointed the gun directly at him, forcing him
Speaker 1: backwards before locking him into the trunk of the B
Speaker 1: and W. He now had a hostage.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Martin returned to the passenger side of the Corolla, where
Speaker 1: Hall was trying to move in the driver's seat. He
Speaker 1: raised his rifle and fired three shots, killing her instantly.
Speaker 2: And her girl or her boyfriend is in the trunk
Speaker 2: hearing this correct? Huh, Yeah, and I'm sure he knows
Speaker 2: exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming he probably did. Martin hopped back into the
Speaker 1: driver's seat of his vehicle and made his way to
Speaker 1: his destination, a place called Seascape Cottage. This place was
Speaker 1: a bed and breakfast, and it would soon be location
Speaker 1: where Martin would be at a standoff with authorities. As
Speaker 1: Martin parked his car and made his way into the Seascape,
Speaker 1: he would shoot at several passing by vehicles. Thankfully, at
Speaker 1: this point no one was killed, but there were injuries.
Speaker 1: Inside the bed and Breakfast, he handcuffed his captive hostage, Glen,
Speaker 1: to the banister of the stairs inside the home. By
Speaker 1: this time, police who were notified of the horrific shootings,
Speaker 1: had made their way to the scene of where it
Speaker 1: all started, and now we're on their way to the
Speaker 1: Seascape cottage as well. It didn't take long for them
Speaker 1: to have the place completely surrounded, but of course they
Speaker 1: did not want to advance on the cottage with an
Speaker 1: armed man and a hostage inside. In fact, it could
Speaker 1: be more than just one hostage. The owners of the
Speaker 1: and Breakfast were not able to be located, which meant
Speaker 1: there was a good chance they too were being held
Speaker 1: by Martin m HM.
Speaker 2: So three potential hostages.
Speaker 1: That potentially three hostages inside. So what they tried to
Speaker 1: do was talk and negotiate with Martin, but their efforts
Speaker 1: never seemed to really get them anywhere. Allegedly, Martin would
Speaker 1: talk about how he went surfing that day and didn't
Speaker 1: seem to make any real mention of the actions he
Speaker 1: had actually taken while completing a mass murder shooting.
Speaker 2: Seriously, he's just talking about the rest of his fucking day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, things like that. He probably didn't actually even do
Speaker 1: what the Yeah. So, at some point during the standoff,
Speaker 1: as the hours ticked by, the phone line went dead,
Speaker 1: so they're talking to him on the phone, you know,
Speaker 1: all this sort of stuff. That phone line went dead.
Speaker 1: The only phone in the house was a battery operated
Speaker 1: cordless landline, so with it dead, there was no way
Speaker 1: of communications because I mean cell phones right right, yep,
Speaker 1: And any attempt to get close to the house resulted
Speaker 1: in bullets flying out the window in their direction.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: Now, two of the first policemen who were on the
Speaker 1: scene were Pat Allen and Gary Whittle, who hid in
Speaker 1: a ditch with a view of the house. To quote
Speaker 1: Alan quote, it was very simple. I knew where he was.
Speaker 1: He was shooting at us, so I had no concerns
Speaker 1: about where he was. Now, the two officers were trapped
Speaker 1: in a ditch with him shooting at them, keeping them
Speaker 1: pinned down. They were there for a total of eight
Speaker 1: hours because of the constant gunfire that was threatening their position.
Speaker 2: Good God, that is so long. Yeah, oh shit, I
Speaker 2: can't leave this one on for that long.
Speaker 1: Well, that was how long those two were in the ditch.
Speaker 1: It would be a total of eighteen hours that this
Speaker 1: standoff occurred, really on the morning of April twenty ninth,
Speaker 1: with this whole standoff would finally come to an end.
Speaker 1: Martin decided he would set the seescape cottage a blaze. Now,
Speaker 1: whether he intended to go down with the fire or
Speaker 1: escape somehow in the commotion, it's kind of unclear, but
Speaker 1: either way, Martin would be caught allegedly in the process
Speaker 1: of setting fire. Martin caught himself on fire as well,
Speaker 1: and he came out running in a panic, which is
Speaker 1: when police quickly made their move and finally apprehended Martin Bryant,
Speaker 1: officially ending his rampage. Now, this is where I was
Speaker 1: really tempted to leave it as a two parter, and
Speaker 1: this is where the episode was going to end.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I would rage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So instead I made a push to really get
Speaker 1: through all that information so far, so we can do
Speaker 1: this in one episode.
Speaker 2: Hey, well, my first question is did the guy that
Speaker 2: was handcuffed to the fucking railing get saved? Please tell
Speaker 2: me that he did.
Speaker 1: Well. After the fire was extinguished, investigators went inside and
Speaker 1: they found three bodies of the hostages inside. All had
Speaker 1: been killed prior to the fire being set, all killed
Speaker 1: via gunshot wounds.
Speaker 2: Really, so those like the shots that they were hearing
Speaker 2: being fired and stuff he had already gotten Oh man, well, he.
Speaker 1: Was shooting at the police like constantly. He had a
Speaker 1: shit ton of ammunition.
Speaker 2: But he also killed those three in the process. Correct, Really,
Speaker 2: I'm shocked. Okay, Well, like you said, I fucking thought
Speaker 2: we were done at the cafe. Wow, this is unreal.
Speaker 1: So that is the events of the massacre, the shooting,
Speaker 1: all of that, But there is a lot more information
Speaker 1: that builds up to this, and of course you know
Speaker 1: the aftermath right so.
Speaker 2: Well, because I can only imagine too, if they had
Speaker 2: known that the hostages were already deceased that this, it
Speaker 2: would have changed a little bit of things. Most likely.
Speaker 1: I'm not certain if it would have, because like they
Speaker 1: just outwaited him. Potentially, I don't know, it might have,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to say. So we need to back
Speaker 1: up and we need to learn who Martin. Martin Bryant is, Okay,
Speaker 1: So we're going to go into his history and a
Speaker 1: little bit of his upbringing. He was born on May seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, at the Queen Alexandria Hospital in Hobart, Tasmania.
Speaker 1: He was the first child of Maurice and Carlen Bryant.
Speaker 1: The family lived in Lenay Valley, but Martin also spent
Speaker 1: part of his childhood at their beach home in Carnavon Bay.
Speaker 1: His mother, Carleen recounted in an interview later after this
Speaker 1: all occurred that Martin often broke his toys and was
Speaker 1: perceived as quote annoying and different from a young age.
Speaker 1: A psychologist assessed that Martin would likely never be able
Speaker 1: to maintain a job, as his behavior would irritate others
Speaker 1: to the point of constant trouble. From an early age,
Speaker 1: Martin exhibited disturbing behaviors. A neighbor recalled an instant where
Speaker 1: Martin shot all the parrots in the area. Additionally, dead
Speaker 1: animals often appeared on their property without any real natural causes.
Speaker 1: Locals noted that other are sorry other troubling actions, such
Speaker 1: as Martin pulling a snorkel from another boy while diving
Speaker 1: and cutting down trees on the neighbor's property. Teachers described
Speaker 1: him as distant from reality and unemotional.
Speaker 2: That's some scary shit right there, that is.
Speaker 1: But I mean there are a few in there that
Speaker 1: I think is just like typical, like just kid kid,
Speaker 1: Like you're cutting down some trees. Sure, maybe it's like
Speaker 1: like I went and I cut down trees. But I
Speaker 1: live out in the bush and Canada, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of trees, a lot of like just not someone's property.
Speaker 1: It's just government land, like you know, it's just acres
Speaker 1: and acres and hectares. Like so maybe it's a little
Speaker 1: bit different for me. But some of it just like, hey,
Speaker 1: it's just harmless kid, played don't know any better. But others, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely a little bit concerning now. At school, Martin
Speaker 1: was both a disruptive and occasionally violent, suffering severe bullying
Speaker 1: from his peers. After being suspended from Newtown Primary School
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy seven, psychological assessment revealed he tortured animals.
Speaker 1: Although his behavior improved slightly upon his return to school
Speaker 1: the following year, he continued to tease younger children. In
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, Martin was transferred to a special education unit
Speaker 1: in Newtown High School, where his academic performance and behavior
Speaker 1: further deteriorated during his remaining school years. Question forty two.
Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, did he was he was a bully or
Speaker 2: did he get bullied or both?
Speaker 1: Both?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: He was bullied by his peers and then whenever he
Speaker 1: had the opportunity. He bullied those younger weaker than him.
Speaker 2: Okay, yep.
Speaker 1: So descriptions of Martin's behavior as an adolescent showed that
Speaker 1: he continued to exhibit disturbing traits and it didn't seem
Speaker 1: to be something that was going that he was going
Speaker 1: to exactly outgrow, which suggests the possibility of an intellectual disability.
Speaker 1: When he left school in nineteen eighty three, a psychiatrist
Speaker 1: who assessed him for the possibility of a disability pension noted, quote,
Speaker 1: cannot read or write, does a bit of gardening, and
Speaker 1: watches TV only his parents' efforts prevent further deterioration. Could
Speaker 1: be schizophrenic and parents face a bleak future with him.
Speaker 2: Oh that's terrible, that is part of it.
Speaker 1: Could be schizophrenic. That's telling me, I don't think this.
Speaker 1: This psychiatrist is doing their proper job.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they needed to go further, Yeah, to try
Speaker 2: to help yep.
Speaker 1: Could be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just so like daunting or almost I don't
Speaker 2: even know the word, but just like that's the end
Speaker 2: kind of thing, like this is this is it?
Speaker 1: Well that last sends could be schizophrenic, which already said
Speaker 1: is like now, yeah, it's like you could go deeper
Speaker 1: and parents face a bleak future with it. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: no hope, Yeah, okay, he might be mentally ill.
Speaker 2: Good luck with that, Yeah, good luck?
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Maybe you could look into this and
Speaker 1: give us tools to deal with it. So not too
Speaker 1: fond of this psychiatrist just saying that.
Speaker 2: But I mean, was there just maybe not anything else
Speaker 2: available at that time, or I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a necessarily a product at
Speaker 1: the time. We're almost entering two thousands. Oh I believe
Speaker 1: are eighties. Sorry, we are in the eighties, nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 1: so yeah, it is eighties. Maybe it is a product
Speaker 1: at the time.
Speaker 2: I'm not certain, but either way that sucks.
Speaker 1: It is now. There is an important point in Martin's
Speaker 1: life which occurred in early nineteen eighty seven, when, at
Speaker 1: nineteen years old, he met fifty four year old Helen
Speaker 1: Mary Elizabeth Harvey. Helen was, for a lack of better words,
Speaker 1: rich as fuck, like rich as fuck, the true the
Speaker 1: two cross paths. When Martin was seeking new customers for
Speaker 1: his lawnmowing service, as a psychiatrist, said he enjoyed things
Speaker 1: at gardening, right, So he was getting out doing some
Speaker 1: gardening service or lawnmowing and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: So Helen befriended Martin and he quickly became a regular
Speaker 1: visitor to her mansion in Newtown. Martin assisted with various tasks,
Speaker 1: such as feeding the fourteen dogs inside the house and
Speaker 1: some forty cats that lived on the property.
Speaker 2: Okay, minus the cats. Not that I hate cats, but
Speaker 2: that sounded like paradise all those dogs.
Speaker 1: Well, mansion it is. But the only problem is the
Speaker 1: property in mansion were not being looked after they were deteriorated.
Speaker 2: Okay, fast.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety, already found the house in such terrible
Speaker 1: condition they issued a mandatory cleanup order. So following this,
Speaker 1: Helen invited Martin to live with her in the mansion.
Speaker 1: The two began spending money lavishly, including purchasing more than
Speaker 1: thirty new cars in less than three years.
Speaker 2: Good God.
Speaker 1: They became inseparable, often spending their days shopping extensively after
Speaker 1: dining at local restaurants.
Speaker 2: Is this like a friendship thing or more.
Speaker 1: As far as I'm aware, just a friendship thing? Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think she's, like, you know, she's getting
Speaker 1: up there in her age a little bit. You know,
Speaker 1: she's she's kind of just looking this fucking mansion and alone.
Speaker 1: She was living with her mom, but her mom had
Speaker 1: passed away, I think, just prior to her inviting Martin.
Speaker 2: To live with her.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I think it was kind of more like
Speaker 1: just companionships every thing, needing a friend and Martin I
Speaker 1: didn't really talk a whole lot about this, but in
Speaker 1: his younger years and even into adulthood, he had trouble
Speaker 1: making friends too, Like he was bullied, He was a
Speaker 1: bit odd, you know. He also, I think was seeking
Speaker 1: out companionship.
Speaker 2: Ye.
Speaker 1: So I think it was just kind of a match
Speaker 1: made in Heaven to have someone for both of them. Now,
Speaker 1: around this period, Martin was released, sorry reassessed for his
Speaker 1: pension and a concerning note was added to his paperwork. Quote,
Speaker 1: father protects him from any occasion which might upset him
Speaker 1: as he continually threatens violence. Martin tells me he would
Speaker 1: like to go around shooting people. It would be unsafe
Speaker 1: to allow Martin out of his parents' control. Oh okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is a quote from the paperwork that was
Speaker 1: on his pension reassessment. Martin tells me he would like
Speaker 1: to go around shooting people.
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, that is just so fucking alarming. But else, oh,
Speaker 2: I guess, like what do you do? What do you do? Right? Like, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm struggling to know what to say
Speaker 2: in regards to that.
Speaker 1: Understandable, it's a tough situation. Yeah, right now that onus
Speaker 1: is on his parents. They have the knowledge passed on
Speaker 1: by these professionals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like I mean, can they be there twenty
Speaker 2: for seven kind of you.
Speaker 1: Know, they can't watch they can't Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: there's technically no mental disability or anything that has been
Speaker 1: diagnosed of him. Nothing. It's just like I might be schizophrenic,
Speaker 1: you know, he kind of wants to shoot people. He
Speaker 1: has trouble making friends. His IQ is kind of low.
Speaker 1: Like that's all that it is.
Speaker 2: That is just the most hot, like just such a
Speaker 2: hard position to be in for like everybody around because
Speaker 2: you think that you need you should help, like, but
Speaker 2: there's really seem to be like no resources. And then
Speaker 2: I don't know, this is like I feel pretty okay
Speaker 2: with not having a kid. Why because like that is
Speaker 2: just such a terrible position to be I I can't
Speaker 2: even imagine.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of pressure, and it's a failure of
Speaker 1: the system on this person.
Speaker 2: Because it seems like they just have no support whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so if there's a parent who needs support, where's
Speaker 1: it coming from. Oh, your kid might be schitzo, you fucked? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh your kid wants to shoot people have fun. Excuse me, No,
Speaker 1: I get.
Speaker 2: What you're saying, Like, that's just so it's devastating.
Speaker 1: Really, it really is. So no, I feel you now.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety one, due to a prohibition on keeping
Speaker 1: animals at the house, Helen and Martin moved to a
Speaker 1: twenty nine hectare or seventy two acre farm called Tarsville
Speaker 1: in Coping, which was a small township. Neighbors recalled that
Speaker 1: Martin often carried an air gun with him, which he
Speaker 1: fired at tourists stopping by to buy apples at the
Speaker 1: roadside stall. Late at night, he would wander through nearby properties,
Speaker 1: shooting at dogs when they would bark at him. Now,
Speaker 1: an air gun is most likely something like a BB
Speaker 1: gun or something quite harmless. Really, but I mean, if
Speaker 1: you get in an eye, you're kind of fucked.
Speaker 2: Put well, and I just realized too. Hopefully it's not
Speaker 2: doing anything terrible to all these animals that they have.
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I don't know, boy, I.
Speaker 2: Kind of didn't. I forgot about that, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the two of them were basically having a
Speaker 1: grand old time together living on this farm, and they
Speaker 1: still had the other house as well, so it was
Speaker 1: kind of like doing a bit of back and forth,
Speaker 1: but just to have the animals hey the farm, right,
Speaker 1: So from then on they were just living life. But
Speaker 1: on October twentieth, nineteen ninety two, tragedy would strike. Helen,
Speaker 1: who was then fifty nine years old, was killed along
Speaker 1: with two of the dogs that were in the car
Speaker 1: with her. So the car had veered onto the wrong
Speaker 1: side of the road and collided with a on vehicle
Speaker 1: coming the other direction. Martin was in the vehicle two
Speaker 1: during the accident and suffered severe neck and mac injuries,
Speaker 1: resulting in a seven month hospital stay. So Helen of
Speaker 1: course passed away, but after the hospital Martin recovered. Now
Speaker 1: police did briefly investigate Martin's role in the accident due
Speaker 1: to his apparent known habit of lunging for the steering wheel.
Speaker 1: This behavior had already caused three previous accidents.
Speaker 2: With Helen or just accidents.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was specifically with Helen, or
Speaker 1: if his parents and Helen or what. But Helen had
Speaker 1: often told people that she never drove faster than sixty
Speaker 1: kilometers per hour or thirty seven miles power. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: of Martin's unpredictable actions. She allegedly confided in a neighbor
Speaker 1: once saying, quote, one of these days, the little bastard
Speaker 1: is going to kill me.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, wow, and lo and behold that happened.
Speaker 1: If veers off her vehicle, veers into oncoming traffic and
Speaker 1: she fucking dies.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, yeah, because it doesn't. I mean, there are
Speaker 2: lots of reasons that could happen, really, I guess, but
Speaker 2: you kind of think it's you.
Speaker 1: Know, the evidence kind of points one way. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: there wasn't enough evidence to really say for sure, and
Speaker 1: the incident was eventually deemed an accident. But many people still,
Speaker 1: and I mean like today, speculate and believe that Martin
Speaker 1: was ultimately responsible for the accident and her death, especially
Speaker 1: when you consider that not not long before her death,
Speaker 1: Helen had named Martin the sole beneficiary of her will,
Speaker 1: which saw him inheriting assets worth over five hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars Australian, which is equivalent to approximately eight
Speaker 1: hundred and nineteen thousand dollars US today or one point
Speaker 1: one million dollars Canadian today.
Speaker 2: No shit, Hey, yeah, really.
Speaker 1: Yes, ma'am did.
Speaker 2: Okay, she didn't have anyone else to leave that too.
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, I think this was like she
Speaker 1: has no one, she needs a friend, and Martin needed
Speaker 1: a friend too. And then so that's why they had
Speaker 1: this relationship together.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: They relied in each other, they enjoyed the company.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so it's not really like in a way,
Speaker 2: I'm almost thinking like, was he manipulating her? But it
Speaker 2: does I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. If he was manipulating her, I
Speaker 1: think it would have this would have taken place much
Speaker 1: in a much shorter time period because this was like
Speaker 1: a freaking decade.
Speaker 2: Basically, right, Okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: So I think there was a legitimate friendship here. I
Speaker 1: personally do think that Martin is responsible for her death.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the will part plays a role
Speaker 1: in it or not, because he does already have a
Speaker 1: history of veering people.
Speaker 2: Off well and it already kind of seemed like he
Speaker 2: he had access to her money too. He did in
Speaker 2: a sense, right.
Speaker 1: He certainly did, so I don't there's no real reason
Speaker 1: why he would just need it all. Yeah, he might
Speaker 1: not even even have known that she changed her will.
Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I'm going to assume he didn't know,
Speaker 1: and the will is not a part of it. But
Speaker 1: I do still think that he pulled on that wheel
Speaker 1: and he veered him off into the other lane. But
Speaker 1: I do believe their friendship was also very real too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a like, what an interesting habit? Yeah, to
Speaker 2: have right like that is obviously dangerous as.
Speaker 1: Fuck, no kidding. Now, with Martin's mental capacity, let's put
Speaker 1: it that way, he had a vague under only a
Speaker 1: vague understanding of financial matters, which again plays into the
Speaker 1: will portion, right like, really, so his mother took over
Speaker 1: managing his finances while his father, Maurice, took care of
Speaker 1: the property, which was like the farm and then the house,
Speaker 1: right right. Maurice, however, had reportedly been prescribed antidepressants and
Speaker 1: had transferred his and his wife's bank account, their joint
Speaker 1: bank account into solely his wife's name. Okay, he did
Speaker 1: this secretly, and on August fourteenth, nineteen ninety three, a
Speaker 1: visitor on the property found a note on the door
Speaker 1: recalling quote, call the police, and several thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: Maurice's car, but Maurice was nowhere to be found. Two
Speaker 1: days later, on August sixteenth, his body was found in
Speaker 1: the dam near the farmhouse with a diving belt, a
Speaker 1: weighted diving belt around his neck.
Speaker 2: Dang.
Speaker 1: So potentially he had put the bank account in his
Speaker 1: wife's name because and on antidepressants because he was planning.
Speaker 2: Ye Oh, that's sad.
Speaker 1: Now. Police describe the death as quote unnatural, ultimately ruling
Speaker 1: it a suicide. As a result, Martin sorry, Martin inherited
Speaker 1: an additional two hundred and fifty thousand and Australian dollars.
Speaker 2: Okay, Like it didn't all just go to the wife,
Speaker 2: I guess then, Well, I.
Speaker 1: Think this came from like a part of his pension
Speaker 1: plan or something. So I think there was some to
Speaker 1: the wife and some to him from this, and then
Speaker 1: whatever finances they had, like equity for example, or in
Speaker 1: the bank account, that was all the wife.
Speaker 2: So yeah, was he like would you say he was
Speaker 2: close with his parents?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, from what I found, I couldn't
Speaker 1: really tell. But I did find a couple of articles
Speaker 1: saying that Martin apparently was pretty nonchalant and even laughed
Speaker 1: at the prospect of his dad's body being found.
Speaker 2: Col that is which leads to disturbing us.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, it leads me to the next thing I
Speaker 1: was going to say. Some speculate that Martin may also
Speaker 1: have been responsible for his father's death, and many of
Speaker 1: them point to the fact that the diet of the
Speaker 1: weighted diving belt actually belonged to Martin.
Speaker 2: Like he kind of helped him or pushed him to
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, but potentially that he could have
Speaker 1: maybe he knocked him out and put the belt around
Speaker 1: his neck and dumped in the water. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but some some speculates that Martin could have been responsible.
Speaker 2: Huh. That is interesting that.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I'm on board with that. I
Speaker 1: think the moving and the bank account right there says
Speaker 1: it all to me.
Speaker 2: But also there was too, like the lack of hope
Speaker 2: that he had that regard like to helping his son
Speaker 2: and stuff, right Like, I mean, it would just all play.
Speaker 2: I think on his mental health.
Speaker 1: That's true. It's very true. So with the death of
Speaker 1: his father and Helen, Martin became increasingly isolated. Between nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three and late nineteen ninety five, he traveled overseas
Speaker 1: fourteen times and had an extensive record of domestic flights
Speaker 1: as well, which apparently filled three pages. Despite these trips,
Speaker 1: Martin felt as lonely as he did abroad as he
Speaker 1: did in Tasmania. The trips didn't help whatsoever, and he
Speaker 1: was just alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I love traveling, but I also don't
Speaker 2: feel like it's super. It doesn't like super connect you
Speaker 2: to people necessarily, right, well.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. But like, Martin particularly enjoyed flying, primarily because
Speaker 1: it allowed him to engage with fellow passengers, people who
Speaker 1: were sitting next to him, who had no choice but
Speaker 1: to be polite and engage in conversation.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, I would hate that. I I don't love
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy having to talk to people on like
Speaker 2: planes when you're just like forced.
Speaker 1: Yeah, nope, Martin, it's super awkward. Actually, Martin certainly did,
Speaker 1: and he actually later in different interviews, actually took pleasure
Speaker 1: in recounting some of these conversations that he had.
Speaker 2: That is so sad though. That makes me feel like,
Speaker 2: not that I'm ever rude or anything, but I'm like
Speaker 2: usually listening to a book or watching something, and you know,
Speaker 2: but that now makes me feel so sad. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: just wanted to talk to the person next to him.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So Martin's isolation led him to become eventually suicidal,
Speaker 1: Expressing that he felt more and more people were against him.
Speaker 1: He said, quote when I tried to be friendly towards them,
Speaker 1: they just walked away. Though previously a social drinker, Martin's
Speaker 1: alcohol consumption significantly began increasing, especially in the six months
Speaker 1: leading up to the Port Arthur massacre. On average, he
Speaker 1: consumed half a bottle of sambuca and a bottle of
Speaker 1: Bailey's Irish Cream daily, whoa supplemented with port wine and
Speaker 1: other sweet alcoholic drinks. So he is consuming quite a
Speaker 1: bit of alcohol on the daily basis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which I mean, I couldn't imagine would help his
Speaker 2: condition any and like his mental health not at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but with all that alcohol consumption, Like, despite all
Speaker 1: this heavy drinking, he had not consumed any alcohol on
Speaker 1: the day of the massacre. None really Stone sober.
Speaker 2: Okay, that seems that's like, that's confusing.
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, you tell me. Huh is it ever.
Speaker 2: You think that you would have consumed even more on
Speaker 2: that day?
Speaker 1: Nope, not a drum huh yeah shit.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, according to Martin, the idea for the Port Arthur
Speaker 1: attack might have come to him somewhere between four to
Speaker 1: twelve weeks before the actual event. Now he's given conflicting
Speaker 1: and confusing accounts of what really drove him to kill
Speaker 1: the people at Port Arthur, but one possible motive was
Speaker 1: his desire for attention. He allegedly told next door neighbor quote,
Speaker 1: I'll do something that will make everyone remember me. Though
Speaker 1: no one specific reason has ever been given by Martin,
Speaker 1: many leave his true motivation for the attack was initially
Speaker 1: started with the bed and breakfast known as the Seascape Cottage,
Speaker 1: which was the same place where the eighteen hours standoff
Speaker 1: had occurred, so Martin suspected suspects the sorry Martin's suspected
Speaker 1: motivations for the massacre there we go were the refusal
Speaker 1: of the sale of the Sea Escape by owners David
Speaker 1: and Noel Martin. Apparently, Martin's father Maurice had interest in
Speaker 1: buying the se Escape Cottage while it was for sale,
Speaker 1: but in the time it took him to get his
Speaker 1: finances and orders to make the purchase, David and Noel
Speaker 1: came in and bought it instead. So the hard feelings
Speaker 1: continued for some time about this. The whole fact that,
Speaker 1: you know, was kind of like scooped up underneath them
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and Maurice often complained to his son
Speaker 1: about the quote double dealing involved in the purchase. He
Speaker 1: offered to buy another property from the Martins on Palmer's
Speaker 1: Lookout Road, but they allegedly declined. To Martin this was
Speaker 1: all intentional. He firmly believed that they had deliberately bought
Speaker 1: the property to harm his family, and he attributed this
Speaker 1: event to the depression that led to his father's suicide
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three. He later described the Martins as
Speaker 1: quote very mean people end quote the worst people in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like that's pretty hard. I mean, shit like
Speaker 2: that happens though.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean it's not their fault. They bought
Speaker 1: the promo. They wanted it too.
Speaker 2: Yeah that is that's like a normal life thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, sometimes you win sometimes to lose, right, it's
Speaker 1: just how it goes.
Speaker 2: He's feeling like he had He needs someone to blame though, Yeah,
Speaker 2: for his dad's.
Speaker 1: Death potentially, and for why he's so alone and why
Speaker 1: he's miserable.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, for many people, they point to this as the
Speaker 1: major moment that brought this horrible incident, this massacre to
Speaker 1: fruition Ky.
Speaker 2: But honestly that it kind of makes sense, I guess
Speaker 2: the end of it, but doesn't make sense him starting
Speaker 2: and killing all those people before. It doesn't. Okay, that
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: I'll touch on it here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, regardless of his motivation, with the money Martin
Speaker 1: had lining his pockets, he soon began stockpiling guns and
Speaker 1: ammunition he had purchased from anyone he could. Even though
Speaker 1: he didn't have a license, Martin just began stockpiling and stockpiling,
Speaker 1: and eventually, on April twenty eight to nineteen ninety six,
Speaker 1: Martin began his killing spree, not by heading to the cafe,
Speaker 1: but by heading to the Seascape Cottage.
Speaker 2: Oh he had started there.
Speaker 1: Here. Martin would kill the the owners of the cottage,
Speaker 1: David and Neeline, before pairing himself and heading off to
Speaker 1: Port Arthur and beginning the rest of his rampage.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they were already Yeah, I didn't see that
Speaker 2: coming at all. No, not even in the slightest Well.
Speaker 1: That's what happened. He killed them, went off to Port Arthur,
Speaker 1: took his hostage, went back to this escape cottage where
Speaker 1: he had already moved ammunition and rifles and stockpiling into
Speaker 1: the cottage. Wow, And from there had the eighteen hours
Speaker 1: stand off with police. In some point in time within
Speaker 1: those eighteen hours, killed his hostage, lit the place on fire,
Speaker 1: catching himself on fire consequently, and exiting to get arrested.
Speaker 2: So he had already killed these owners and then went
Speaker 2: to this pier, had some fucking lunch and then just
Speaker 2: went a vote it correct. Uh that is something yeah,
Speaker 2: no kidding total.
Speaker 1: So, while awaiting trial, Martin underwent several different examinations. Forensic
Speaker 1: psychologist Ian Joblin determined that Martin was borderline mentally disabled,
Speaker 1: with an IQ of sixty six, equivalent to that of
Speaker 1: an eleven year old. Court appointed psychiatrist Ian Sale concluded
Speaker 1: that Martin exhibited a mix of conduct disorder, attention deficit,
Speaker 1: hyperactivity disorder, and traits associated with Asperger syndrome. Psychiatrist Paul Mullen,
Speaker 1: brought in by Martin's legal counsel, found that Martin was
Speaker 1: both socially and intellectually impaired. However, Malin did not find
Speaker 1: evidence of schizophrenia or mood disorder. He concluded that quote,
Speaker 1: though mister Brian was clearly a distressed and disturbed young man,
Speaker 1: he was not mentally ill. He was found fit to
Speaker 1: stand trial.
Speaker 2: Really, okay, I'm finding that very surprising.
Speaker 1: Now. He initially pled guilty, sorry, pled not guilty to
Speaker 1: the thirty five murders.
Speaker 2: During this trial five lives.
Speaker 1: Thirty five, but near the end he suddenly decided to
Speaker 1: change his plea to guilty. He was sentenced to thirty
Speaker 1: five consecutive life sentences plus one thousand, six hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty two years in prison for his crimes, or, to
Speaker 1: put it simply, never to be released, Australia's maximum sentence.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, honestly, that's like good. I feel like that's
Speaker 2: how many sentences should be.
Speaker 1: I agree, locked up for life?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you're taking that many lives, like,
Speaker 2: you can't just.
Speaker 1: Like reform only goes so far.
Speaker 2: Well, and you can't just like document one life like
Speaker 2: I think you do need to like consecutively. They're all,
Speaker 2: you know, lives.
Speaker 1: You can't be tried for a single Like if you
Speaker 1: kill thirty five people, you need to be held accountable
Speaker 1: for thirty five murders.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, not just.
Speaker 1: Be like okay, well we're gonna like wave off thirty
Speaker 1: four if you plead guilty to one like.
Speaker 2: Fuck no, yeah, or you can't just have the max
Speaker 2: like twenty five years. It should be twenty five years
Speaker 2: for each person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I fully agree with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Now, the Broad Arrow Cafe that's located in Port Arthur,
Speaker 1: where the mass shooting started, has been turned into a
Speaker 1: place for reflection and immemorial in the hopes of preventing
Speaker 1: similar crimes. Gun control laws in many areas of Australia
Speaker 1: were significantly strengthened in the aftermath of the tragedy. So
Speaker 1: I am a strong advocate for safety, having a professional
Speaker 1: background and occupational health and safety. There is a saying
Speaker 1: that I've heard through my profession, and it's that safety
Speaker 1: regulations are written in blood. Yeah, meaning often takes someone
Speaker 1: to get hurt or killed for change to finally happen
Speaker 1: for that legislation to be written so it takes their
Speaker 1: blood for that to be written. So SA written in blood.
Speaker 1: So in nineteen eighty seven, nine years before the shooting,
Speaker 1: the premiere of New South Wales declared this quote, it
Speaker 1: will take a massacre in Tasmania before we get gun
Speaker 1: reform in Australia. Within days of the Port Arthur massacre,
Speaker 1: Australian Prime Minister John Howard announced that the country's gun
Speaker 1: laws would undergo significant change.
Speaker 2: Gosh, that's not good. That's not good.
Speaker 1: Nope, it's difficult for people to take a proactive approach
Speaker 1: because hey, nothing's gone bad yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean you can't you can't, like, you
Speaker 2: can't live like that.
Speaker 1: Nope.
Speaker 2: But I mean also you anticipating the world happening too,
Speaker 2: was you know someone? Is also not a good way
Speaker 2: to live.
Speaker 1: Yep. So the new regulations banned automatic and semi automatic
Speaker 1: long guns. Additionally, gun owners were required to apply for
Speaker 1: license and provide a quote genuine reason for owning a
Speaker 1: firearm excluding personal protection. Australia also initiated a gun buy
Speaker 1: back program, which successfully reduced firearms suicides by seventy four percent,
Speaker 1: saving approximately two hundred lives annually. That's good since support
Speaker 1: Arthur massacre in nineteen ninety six. Australia has not experienced
Speaker 1: a single mass shooting.
Speaker 2: I just have to say though, too, he had so
Speaker 2: much money right like there, and money can buy things,
Speaker 2: whether they're legal or not. Yeah, So I mean this
Speaker 2: that might have not even fully stopped him.
Speaker 1: Right, It's true, that's true. So Martin Bryant remains in
Speaker 1: solitary confinement in prison to this day. He killed thirty
Speaker 1: five people and wounded twenty three more. The following is
Speaker 1: a list of those killed in the shooting that he
Speaker 1: committed at Port Arthur Winnifred Joyce Alfin fifty eight, Walter
Speaker 1: John Bennett sixty six, Nicole Luis Burgess seventeen, Sue Leang
Speaker 1: Chung thirty two, Elva Runda Gaillard forty eight, Zoe Ann
Speaker 1: Hall twenty eight, Elizabeth Jane Howard twenty six, Mary Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Howard fifty seven, Sarah Kate Lawton fifteen, David Martin seventy two,
Speaker 1: Noel Sally Joyce Martin sixty nine, Pauline Georgina Masters forty nine,
Speaker 1: Elena Luis Meekak six, Madeline Grace Meekak three, Ninette Patricia
Speaker 1: Meekak thirty six, Andrew Bruce Mills thirty nine, Mary Rose
Speaker 1: Nixon sixty, Glenroy Peers thirty five, Russelled, James Pollard seventy two,
Speaker 1: Jeanette Kathleen Quinn fifty, Helen Maria Salzman fifty, Robert Graham
Speaker 1: Salzman fifty seven, Kate Elizabeth Scott twenty one, Mervin John
Speaker 1: Howard fifty five, Ronald Noel Jerry seventy one, Tony Vadiliu
Speaker 1: Kristen fifty one, Leslie Dennis Lever fifty three, Peter Brenton
Speaker 1: Nash thirty two, Gwenda Jones Ninder sixty seven, William zen
Speaker 1: Nigg forty eight, Anthony Natandale forty four, Kevin Vincent Sharp
Speaker 1: sixty eight, Raymond John Sharp sixty seven, Royce William Thompson
Speaker 1: fifty nine, Jason Bernard Winter twenty nine.
Speaker 2: Oh, that is just like such a like a blood
Speaker 2: chilling list.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, that is the case of the Port Arthur massacre.
Speaker 2: I can't stop thinking too like so many on that
Speaker 2: list where I feel like probably retired, like exploring.
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, And because of that, it was hard
Speaker 1: for them to initially react when he started shooting, to
Speaker 1: get up out of the chair. Oh to run.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, wow, yeah, thanks, sorry, because here I
Speaker 2: was just thinking, like they're exploring, traveling, living their life,
Speaker 2: but I didn't think that. It's like their bodies were
Speaker 2: not allowing them to get away.
Speaker 1: I don't think they would have gotten away, but it
Speaker 1: made it just that much harder to react quickly because
Speaker 1: I know when the cafe, I read some articles about that,
Speaker 1: because many in like the cafe and gift shop and
Speaker 1: stuff were of like an older age that the reaction
Speaker 1: time was not as swift.
Speaker 2: Okay, well my heart was kind of already in my
Speaker 2: stomach and now it really is, sorry, foot brutal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that that was a whole lot of information
Speaker 1: on that case. I really just threw it all out
Speaker 1: there for you guys. Hopefully you were able to soak
Speaker 1: it all in. I realized I might have at one
Speaker 1: point said that the case that the events took place
Speaker 1: in ninety eight, it's ninety six. So yeah, just clarifying that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I honestly, I know there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people against different gun laws because there's stuff that's been
Speaker 1: happening here in Canada over the past few years regarding that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I don't think anyone knows how
Speaker 1: to correct the situation. Yeah, how to make sure that
Speaker 1: you know, people don't get shot. But clearly having some
Speaker 1: sort of reform program does make a difference.
Speaker 2: It does make a difference. But I also, like, I like,
Speaker 2: we live in such a fucked up world that I mean,
Speaker 2: if there's a will, there's a way.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: That's very true, which is such a bummer to say,
Speaker 2: but like which.
Speaker 1: Offers the counter argument of well, if I don't have
Speaker 1: a gun, and the people who have the will and
Speaker 1: find a way do have a gun, how can I
Speaker 1: defend myself? Like, I totally get it. So there's two
Speaker 1: sides to this coin, and it's I can't. I don't
Speaker 1: know the answer, Like I said, I don't think anyone does.
Speaker 2: But I mean, it does stop. It definitely does stop some.
Speaker 1: It does stop some, but it won't stop all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And if it can't stop all, then how are you
Speaker 1: going to defend yourself against those Because those that do
Speaker 1: end up having the firearm if you don't, others are
Speaker 1: going to look upon that and be like, well, if
Speaker 1: I do that, I could then rob someone or do
Speaker 1: what I want to, and then that number is only
Speaker 1: going to grow. Yeah, so it's you damned if you do,
Speaker 1: you damned if you sort of situation, which is really unfortunate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. I do kind of think tho if
Speaker 2: people had this guns and stuff more readily available, that
Speaker 2: there would be more things.
Speaker 1: We should just get rid of guns entirely and just
Speaker 1: have nerf guns.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that would be fun. Could you imagine? Okay,
Speaker 2: so I have to give me all your money. I
Speaker 2: have like a canux fwag on my vehicle just caring
Speaker 2: for them, and someone the other day was like honking
Speaker 2: at me and thumbs down, and can you imagine just
Speaker 2: pulling on a NERF gun.
Speaker 1: And be like, you know, just to drive by nerfing? Wow,
Speaker 1: Like that.
Speaker 2: Would be bringing hilarious. Like it didn't make me mad.
Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, oh, Canucks go, but
Speaker 2: it would just be like hilarios.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would be which Unfortunately, the Canucks are officially
Speaker 1: out of the playoffs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We just prior to watching recording this, we watched Game
Speaker 1: seven and they were beaten by Edmonton Oilers three two.
Speaker 2: Really too bad.
Speaker 1: It is too bad, but there's always next year, which
Speaker 1: next year we can potentially say the same thing, and
Speaker 1: then after that, after that, but eventually Lee or like.
Speaker 2: My grandma says, we'll get over it.
Speaker 1: We'll get over it.
Speaker 2: Like I'm like, I'm so sad, and she's like, we'll
Speaker 2: get over it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, oh my gosh, get over it.
Speaker 2: That's a good We'll get over It's true.
Speaker 1: We will, It's true, say la Vie.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, anyway, good job. That was a doozy.
Speaker 1: It was a doozy. Like I said, I could have
Speaker 1: done a two partter on yeah, but I really wanted
Speaker 1: to push through get it done in one. We appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys being here for the full episode on this
Speaker 1: hopefully enjoyed it. If you want to check out any
Speaker 1: of the information on this podcast, whether it's more of
Speaker 1: our socials or anything, Patreon links are down below, including
Speaker 1: YouTube all of it, all the good stuff, all the
Speaker 1: good stuff, feel free to check us out and give
Speaker 1: us a rating. We appreciate it and it really helps
Speaker 1: the show. We are an indie podcast. We are produced
Speaker 1: by us. No one owns this podcast. It's us in
Speaker 1: our tiny home. No one else live in our life,
Speaker 1: so we do not record in a big studio. We
Speaker 1: did not have a corporation overseeing us. We research, we write,
Speaker 1: we record. It's just us and our dogs and chickens
Speaker 1: and our cat Kiwi.
Speaker 2: Yeah you have them, yeah of course. So anyway, until
Speaker 2: uh until next week, until next
Speaker 1: Week, stay wicked,