WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Mass shootings have become somewhat of an epidemic in places

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<v Speaker 1>such as North America, but just because they are more

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<v Speaker 1>prominent in certain places does not mean other nations around

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<v Speaker 1>the world have not experienced the same pain from these

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<v Speaker 1>tragic events. In nineteen ninety six, Australia would experience the

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<v Speaker 1>worst mass shooting in their history, with one monster gunning

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<v Speaker 1>down anyone in their path. To date, the event has

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<v Speaker 1>left a scar on their country's history, and that day

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<v Speaker 1>has forever been known as the Port Arthur Massacre.

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<v Speaker 2>My name is Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicked Ingram, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>The following material for a mature audience listener discretion lies.

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<v Speaker 1>This is one hell of a case. I'm warning you

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<v Speaker 1>right now. There's a lot to this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, you spent you know, I feel like quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit longer on this case than you normally do.

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<v Speaker 1>So I did for it, spend a lot of time

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<v Speaker 1>really doing my due diligence in the research and getting

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<v Speaker 1>the timeline as best as I could. Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>jaw dropping event. It's massive. It's not one casualty, unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>there's many. But what there's also many of is Patreon

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<v Speaker 1>subscribers that we have that support this show.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, what good job.

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<v Speaker 1>So we always thank our patrons who sign up and

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<v Speaker 1>support the show, and this week we had b sign

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<v Speaker 1>up and support us over on the Patreon platform. So

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<v Speaker 1>thank you very much. Sam appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to join Sam and everyone else? Link is

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<v Speaker 1>down below in the description of this podcast, you can

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<v Speaker 1>sign up get that all the good behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 1>and extra episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>All the good stuff and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>Good good, but enough chatter. This is a big episode.

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<v Speaker 1>I could have easily have done two parts to this.

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<v Speaker 1>We're doing a single part to this episode, so it

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<v Speaker 1>might be a bit of a longer one, depending on

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<v Speaker 1>how much WeChat. We chitchat are some of the things

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<v Speaker 1>we want to discuss about it. But I think I'm

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<v Speaker 1>just ready to dive in.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are too, Yeah, let's door.

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<v Speaker 1>You have no what's the word objections to it?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>No? Okay, Well let's start the story. So the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Port Arthur is one filled with you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a very long history. It is a town and former

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<v Speaker 1>convict settlement that exists on Tasmania Pensula Peninsula. There we

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<v Speaker 1>go in Tasmania Australia, where it is located approximately ninety

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<v Speaker 1>seven kilometers southeast of the state capital, Hobert. Now. It

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<v Speaker 1>was originally named after a man by the name of

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<v Speaker 1>George Arthur, who is the Lieutenant Governor of Van Diemen's

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<v Speaker 1>Land when the settlement started in eighteen thirty, but it

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<v Speaker 1>is best known for being a penal colony. However, aside

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<v Speaker 1>from the historical aspect of Port Arthur, it has become

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<v Speaker 1>famous and very well known across Australia and the world

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<v Speaker 1>alike for a very dark reason. Port Arthur is home

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<v Speaker 1>to the largest mass shooting Australia has ever seen, known

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<v Speaker 1>as the Port Arthur Massacre. At around one ten pm

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<v Speaker 1>on April twenty eighth and nineteen ninety six, twenty nine

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<v Speaker 1>year old Martin Bryant arrived at the Port Arthur tourist

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<v Speaker 1>site after paying the entry fee. He initially parked his

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle near the Broad Arrow Cafe close to the waterfront.

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<v Speaker 1>The site's security manager noticed Brian had or sorry noticed

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Bryant had parked in a spot designated for camper events.

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<v Speaker 1>He instructed him to relocate his car to a different spot,

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<v Speaker 1>different parking area, and Martin complied, yeah, okay, no problem, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and he went to move his car, but he soon

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<v Speaker 1>after a moment of just sitting in his car, turned

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<v Speaker 1>his car around and parked near the cafe once again.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the security manager noticed this, but didn't really say much, Right, okay, whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a fairly busy day that they're dealing with today,

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<v Speaker 1>busier than normal, so he just kind of whatever, just

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<v Speaker 1>moved on doing what they're doing, right, fair enough, So

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<v Speaker 1>Martin sat in his car for several minutes before getting

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<v Speaker 1>out and doing something in the back seat and then

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<v Speaker 1>in the trunk of his car before heading towards the cafe.

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<v Speaker 1>And when he was heading to the cafe, the security

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<v Speaker 1>guard actually noticed he was carrying a sports bag type

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<v Speaker 1>Duffel bag and he's headed to go have a seat,

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<v Speaker 1>so as he ignored this, and as the man walked up.

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<v Speaker 1>He goes inside and Martin ordered a meal and took

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<v Speaker 1>it to the outside at a table that was on

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<v Speaker 1>the the sun deck the cafe sun deck. He sat

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<v Speaker 1>down with his bag and placed it on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>next to him and placed his meal on the table

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<v Speaker 1>in front of him. During his meal, he briefly engaged

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<v Speaker 1>other visitors in some small talk conversation, mentioning the scarcity

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<v Speaker 1>of wasps this year out there not a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>being around and the fewer number of Japanese tourists compared

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<v Speaker 1>to usual as well that they see on the site.

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<v Speaker 1>It was mostly just small talk, you know, just little

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<v Speaker 1>things whatever he could, right, and just having casual conversations

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<v Speaker 1>as he's you know, just enjoying the meal in the cafe.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not not any different than what a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>cafe individuals do. You know, if you're going there, you're

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<v Speaker 1>not reading a book or on your phone or laptop,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you often make mention of something to someone

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<v Speaker 1>around you. Hey, you know, I like your jacket or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, honestly, I feel like that seems super friendly.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it is, and I mean this is in the

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<v Speaker 1>nineties as well, like today with a bit more technology,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a bit less of.

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<v Speaker 2>That, yes, because I'm often at cafes like working, so

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't look like I'm very approachable necessarily anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think someone's about to approach someone who's

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<v Speaker 1>busy in that manner, right, Yeah. But like, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>if someone's sitting here reading a book and it's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I also read books by that author. You know, they

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<v Speaker 1>might strike up a conversation. Yeah, more so again in

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<v Speaker 1>that era than today. But so that's kind of what

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<v Speaker 1>was going on, just striking up casual conversation with those

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<v Speaker 1>around him as he's there enjoying his meal. Now, throughout

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<v Speaker 1>this time, his behavior was noted to be a bit strange.

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<v Speaker 1>Outside of just being a bit friendly. He appeared a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit anxious and was frequently glancing back at his

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<v Speaker 1>car and went back at where it was parked, and

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<v Speaker 1>then also back inside the cafe. So this cafe, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not sure if I mentioned it's named the Broad Arrow Cafe.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if I said that or not, but

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<v Speaker 1>it is.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>It isn't exactly a large place, this cafe. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>typical small, you know cafe, you grab cup of coffee,

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<v Speaker 1>bite to eat whatever. Right, and today being a very

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<v Speaker 1>particularly busy day, as I already mentioned, it was filled

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<v Speaker 1>with patrons, which made Martin's next move all the more horrifying.

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<v Speaker 1>As he was finishing up his food, Martin reached into

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<v Speaker 1>the sports style duffelbag and he brought out what he

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<v Speaker 1>had grabbed from the car. It was an AR fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>semi automatic assault rifle.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Man yes.

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<v Speaker 1>With the rifle now in his hands, Martin stood up,

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<v Speaker 1>turned to the table beside him, presumably some of the

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<v Speaker 1>individuals he was just making a small talk with brutal

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<v Speaker 1>and began firing at them. Holy shit, without a moment

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<v Speaker 1>to react. Mo Yi Nig and Sue Leng Chung, who

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<v Speaker 1>were visitors from Malaysia, found themselves at Martin's first or

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<v Speaker 1>as Martin's first victims of the day, as they were

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<v Speaker 1>shot and killed right there in the cafe. As they

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<v Speaker 1>laid there, their blood spilling out under the ground, Martin

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<v Speaker 1>then began his horrific rampage onto others. He continued firing

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<v Speaker 1>his rifle at any one he saw inside the cafe.

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<v Speaker 1>He fired a shot at Mixed Sergeant and the bullet

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<v Speaker 1>just grazed his scalp and knocked him to the floor.

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<v Speaker 1>Martin then shot Mick Sergeant's girlfriend right in front of him,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one year old Kate Elizabeth Scott, hitting her in

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<v Speaker 1>the back of the head, killing her instantly.

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<v Speaker 2>Geez.

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<v Speaker 1>The rampage continued, and he did not discriminate between any

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<v Speaker 1>of the people he saw. Anthony Nightgale forty four, stood

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<v Speaker 1>up and shouted no, not here, and he was fatally

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<v Speaker 1>shot by Martin, who hit him in the neck and spine.

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<v Speaker 1>Martin also shot sixty eight year old Kevin Vincent Sharp,

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<v Speaker 1>who was killed instantly. Another shot struck sixty six year

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<v Speaker 1>old Walter Bennett, passing through him and hitting a man

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<v Speaker 1>behind him by the name of Raymond John Sharp sixty seven,

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<v Speaker 1>killing both men. Bullets continued to fly, striking, killing and

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<v Speaker 1>injuring more victims. Some turned to run, and others hit

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<v Speaker 1>under the tables or attempted to shield others from certain death.

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<v Speaker 1>The list of victims Martin affected is far too long

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<v Speaker 1>to cover in this podcast, so for the sake of brevity,

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<v Speaker 1>we will cover all of those names whose lives were

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<v Speaker 1>lost at the end of this episode. What gets me

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<v Speaker 1>the most, though, is how it seems Martin did not

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<v Speaker 1>care who he was killing. Already said he didn't discriminate. No,

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<v Speaker 1>and this also includes children.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, okay, Like, what the fuck is happening here?

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<v Speaker 1>Martin fired at a family inside the cafe where Graham Colier,

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<v Speaker 1>Carolyn Lawton, and her daughter Sarah were seated. Colier was

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<v Speaker 1>shot in the jaw. Carolyn tried to protect her daughter,

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<v Speaker 1>but Martin shot Carolyn in the back, rupturing her ear drum. Tragically,

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah was fatally shot in the head despite her mother's efforts.

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<v Speaker 1>Sarah was fifteen years old. Oh my gosh, Wow, the

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<v Speaker 1>events inside the cafe unfolded within a matter of approximately

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen seconds. Seriously, everything I just sa described was only

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen seconds it took for that to occur, Holy shit,

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<v Speaker 1>during which Martin had fired a total of seventeen shots,

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<v Speaker 1>killing twelve people and wounding ten others. Fifteen seconds, killed

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<v Speaker 1>twelve people in fifteen seconds.

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<v Speaker 2>Wha. That is honestly just mind blowing. Like, did even

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<v Speaker 2>try to comprehend that, just as it just seems so impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>Those fifteen seconds. I bet you felt like fifteen fucking minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>I cannot imagine being in there. That would have been

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<v Speaker 1>scary as shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, just like this perse like, uh, it's such

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<v Speaker 2>you would just never think that that would happen, Right,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're out there enjoying like a nice day or

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<v Speaker 2>whatever and a coffee and then oh, like that is

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<v Speaker 2>this fucking nightmare.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's the last thing you would expect, especially from

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<v Speaker 1>someone like I said, who's just at the table next

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<v Speaker 1>to you, just enjoying a meal, having small talk with you,

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<v Speaker 1>being like, oh, yeah, there's a lot of less Japanese

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<v Speaker 1>tourists this year. I wonder if you know, they maybe

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<v Speaker 1>were sending boat a little bit later or something in

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<v Speaker 1>the season. Who knows, right, yeah, and then all of

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden he pulls out an AR fifteen and just

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<v Speaker 1>unloads on you, like what the fuck?

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<v Speaker 2>You wouldn't even have a minute to comprehend it or thing?

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<v Speaker 1>No, I don't done. I have a feeling there are

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<v Speaker 1>some individuals who that did pass away who did not.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, yeah anything, what even was happening?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they were there one moment and then they weren't.

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<v Speaker 1>They weren't. So from the cafe, Martin then moved on

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<v Speaker 1>to the gift shop. Many who were there used the

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<v Speaker 1>time from the initial bullet firing.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not done.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, he's just getting started.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shoot, I thought we were okay.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that was the first fifteen seconds.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy I thought that was like fifteen seconds and done

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<v Speaker 2>kind of thing. Move on here.

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<v Speaker 1>Nope. He moved on to the gift shop, and those

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<v Speaker 1>who were in the gift shop used the time those

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen seconds to try and hide under the tables behind

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<v Speaker 1>shop displays whatever they could, but it was no use.

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<v Speaker 1>He immediately fatally shot two local women who worked in

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<v Speaker 1>the gift shop, seventeen year old Nicholas are Sorry Nicole

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<v Speaker 1>Burgess in the head and twenty six year old Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 1>Howard in the arm and chest. Some tried to make

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<v Speaker 1>a run for it, but Martin didn't care and fired

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<v Speaker 1>his rifle right into the back as they tried to run.

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<v Speaker 1>For a brief moment, Martin turned his attention back to

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<v Speaker 1>the cafe, where he shot a man by the name

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<v Speaker 1>of Peter who was trying to hide under a table.

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<v Speaker 1>In this moment, a man by the name of Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Winter thought Martin had left the room because he had

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<v Speaker 1>turned his attention back to the cafe. Thinking this was

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<v Speaker 1>an opportunity to escape and move out into the open,

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<v Speaker 1>he tried to make a run. Martin, however, was standing

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<v Speaker 1>right there and saw Jason stand up immediately. Jason's last

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<v Speaker 1>words were allegedly no, no, as Martin opened fired on him,

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<v Speaker 1>with bullets hitting his hand which was out in a

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<v Speaker 1>defensive position, ye his neck, chest, and finally a fatal

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<v Speaker 1>one in the head. The sequence of events that followed

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<v Speaker 1>is not entirely clear. As many of those who were

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<v Speaker 1>present did not survive to tell their experience, but at

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<v Speaker 1>some point Martin reloaded his weapon. He returned to the

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<v Speaker 1>cafe before heading back to the gift shop. There he

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<v Speaker 1>fatally shot Ronald Jerry, Peter Nash, and Pauline Masters. He however,

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<v Speaker 1>did not see Carolyn Nash lying hidden beneath her deceased

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<v Speaker 1>husband Peter, and went unnoticed by Martin.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness, holy shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in the midst of that reloading, he left

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<v Speaker 1>an empty magazine on the counter and then finally exited

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<v Speaker 1>the building. In the cafe and gift shop combined, he

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<v Speaker 1>fired twenty nine shots, killed twenty people and wounded twelve more.

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<v Speaker 1>Martin then headed towards the parking lot in front of

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<v Speaker 1>the cafe building, and seeing the armed men approaching, people

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00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.039
<v Speaker 1>started running and trying to hide. Now, initially, the security

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00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:08.279
<v Speaker 1>guard who saw this happen, heard the shots start and

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00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:10.879
<v Speaker 1>went running up there, thinking there was like an electrical problem, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>who would have thought that it was bullets.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, your mind would just kind of think that it's

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<v Speaker 2>something else.

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<v Speaker 1>So he thought there was like electrical pops happening, it's

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<v Speaker 1>shortening out, And then he saw the firing happening, and

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<v Speaker 1>then he bolted away trying to get other people to safety,

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00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.840
<v Speaker 1>get out of here, run. But initially people thought this

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00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.919
<v Speaker 1>was like some sort of like reenactment or like some

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00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:35.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of like show that was being put on, So

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<v Speaker 1>it took him a bit to get people to get moving. No, yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And I read an article where that security supervisor or

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00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.440
<v Speaker 1>manager was questioning if he should have gone into the

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<v Speaker 1>cafe to try and like take out Martin because hindsight

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00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:59.320
<v Speaker 1>what he ended up doing. He's like, if only I

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00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.240
<v Speaker 1>could have taken him out, maybe it would have played

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<v Speaker 1>out different. But I mean, I don't I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>he could have done anything. You have a man with

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<v Speaker 1>an era of fifteen, he would have seen.

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<v Speaker 2>He would have just honestly gotten shot instantly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree, So I don't think he needs to

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<v Speaker 1>second guess anything he did. I'm pretty sure he probably

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<v Speaker 1>did save some lives by rallying people to move them on. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so props to him for doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that's such a terrible feeling though, Hey, like

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<v Speaker 2>where you think that you you should have done something

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00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:30.960
<v Speaker 2>else or could have done.

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00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.879
<v Speaker 1>Regret for sure, But I don't think he should have

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<v Speaker 1>no regrets, because I guarantee you he did save lives

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<v Speaker 1>that day.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.080
<v Speaker 1>So Martin exited the building and headed towards the parking

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<v Speaker 1>lot in front of the cafe, and people were running

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<v Speaker 1>and trying to hide seeing him approach. Among them was

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00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Royce Thompson, a bus driver. Martin shot Thompson in the

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00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:54.159
<v Speaker 1>back as he moved along the passenger side of the bus.

288
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.919
<v Speaker 1>Although Thompson managed to crawl under the bus to hide,

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00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.480
<v Speaker 1>he ultimately succumbed to his injuries, and chaos erupted as

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00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.759
<v Speaker 1>people desperately sought cover among the park tourist buses. Aware

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00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.240
<v Speaker 1>of their strategy, Martin circled around the buses until he

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00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:14.039
<v Speaker 1>found a group of people seeking refuge. Just as before,

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00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.200
<v Speaker 1>he began firing at the group, further adding to the

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00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:22.679
<v Speaker 1>growing list of casualties. Everything continued, but eventually Martin made

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00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:25.559
<v Speaker 1>his way back to his car to exchange his rifle

296
00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:28.960
<v Speaker 1>for another, this time an L one A one self

297
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:32.000
<v Speaker 1>loading rifle. He turned back and picked up where he

298
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>left off. He shot a woman by the name of

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00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.559
<v Speaker 1>Janet Quinn in the back and then chased after her husband,

300
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Neville Quinn. Martin shot at him at least twice before

301
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:43.559
<v Speaker 1>Quinn ran onto a bus in a desperate attempt to

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00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>find cover from the bullets. Martin, however, followed him. Once

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00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.440
<v Speaker 1>on the bus, he pointed the gun in nevill Quinn's face, saying, quote,

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00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:55.840
<v Speaker 1>no one gets away from me.

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00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm like shocked that he actually went like he would.

306
00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:03.639
<v Speaker 2>It seemed like he kind of just like zoned in

307
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.519
<v Speaker 2>on people and then they were his next target and

308
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.160
<v Speaker 2>they finished, and he finished them and then went on

309
00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>to the next.

310
00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Just whoever he saw. He's like, yeah, I'm going to

311
00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:14.519
<v Speaker 1>kill you. Yeah, I'm going to kill you.

312
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:16.440
<v Speaker 2>But I feel like, yeah, like that when I'm surprised

313
00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:18.319
<v Speaker 2>he went on the bus after him and didn't just

314
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:20.920
<v Speaker 2>like move on to someone that was easier or whatever.

315
00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Right, I'm not too sure why, but he definitely honed

316
00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.359
<v Speaker 1>in on Neville and like I said, his quote, no

317
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:31.480
<v Speaker 1>one gets away from me disgusting. Now, After Martin was

318
00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.480
<v Speaker 1>finished in the parking lot near the buses, he headed

319
00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:36.880
<v Speaker 1>back to his car and drove towards the exit of

320
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.559
<v Speaker 1>the historical site. Ahead of him in the middle of

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00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.559
<v Speaker 1>the road was a woman by the name of Nanette mccac.

322
00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:50.400
<v Speaker 1>She was with her two children, Madeline, who was three

323
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.160
<v Speaker 1>and Elena, who was six. Nnette was trying to make

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00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.839
<v Speaker 1>a run from the horrors of what was assuing in

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00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:01.400
<v Speaker 1>an attempt to save her two children lives. She was

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00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.720
<v Speaker 1>carrying Madeline and Elena was running slightly ahead. By this point,

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00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:08.720
<v Speaker 1>they had run approximately six hundred meters from the parking lot,

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00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.079
<v Speaker 1>only to have Martin pull up right behind them. He

329
00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:17.119
<v Speaker 1>slowed down and opened his door. Nenette didn't panic or

330
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:19.920
<v Speaker 1>find herself screaming in fear, though, and stead she moved

331
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.599
<v Speaker 1>towards the car because she thought the driver was another

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00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.519
<v Speaker 1>person who was trying to escape and was stopping to

333
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.680
<v Speaker 1>offer her and her children help. Instead of help, though,

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00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.000
<v Speaker 1>she found herself face to face with a monster. As

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00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.279
<v Speaker 1>Martin stepped out of the car, A gun was pointed

336
00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.480
<v Speaker 1>directly at Nnette, and Martin told her to get to

337
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.920
<v Speaker 1>her knees. She had no other choice but to do

338
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.240
<v Speaker 1>as he said, hoping and praying that she would find

339
00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:50.759
<v Speaker 1>mercy once in the ground. She didn't find mercy, though.

340
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:53.359
<v Speaker 1>Martin held the gun up to her temple and pulled

341
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:57.079
<v Speaker 1>the trigger, killing Thennette instantly, with her two little girls watching.

342
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.839
<v Speaker 1>He then turned his attention to them and faintly shot

343
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.359
<v Speaker 1>both the girls, three year old Madeline and six year

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00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:05.119
<v Speaker 1>old Lena.

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00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Good God, what a frickin monster. I didn't expect that

346
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:12.599
<v Speaker 2>to play out like that For some reason.

347
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:17.440
<v Speaker 1>You thought it was done after the cafe, and here

348
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:19.440
<v Speaker 1>we are. He's still going like.

349
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:24.759
<v Speaker 2>Where like we're at. I'm a lot of victims, Holly.

350
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Martin got back in his car and continued to drive

351
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.000
<v Speaker 1>up the up to the toll booth, and at the

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00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.279
<v Speaker 1>exit he exited the historical site, where there were several

353
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.240
<v Speaker 1>vehicles at the exit. Though here Martin shot and killed

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00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>a few more people, including Nixon and Helen Salzman. He

355
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:46.039
<v Speaker 1>pulled their lifeless bodies from the BMW vehicle that they

356
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:51.640
<v Speaker 1>were driving and transferred his belongings into the car, including ammunition, handcuffs,

357
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.400
<v Speaker 1>the AR fifteen rifle he started with, and the fuel container.

358
00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:59.200
<v Speaker 1>Martin then drove to a service station at the front

359
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:01.880
<v Speaker 1>of Port Arthur Jen Store, where he blocked the exit

360
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.400
<v Speaker 1>of a white Toyota Corolla attempting to merge onto the highway.

361
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Glenn Peers was the man driving that car, with his

362
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.279
<v Speaker 1>girlfriend Zoe Hall in the pasture seat. Martin swiftly exited

363
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.920
<v Speaker 1>his vehicle, armed with the rifle and attempted to pull

364
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Hall from the Corolla. Glenn got out and approached Martin,

365
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:26.519
<v Speaker 1>who then pointed the gun directly at him, forcing him

366
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:29.319
<v Speaker 1>backwards before locking him into the trunk of the B

367
00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:32.599
<v Speaker 1>and W. He now had a hostage.

368
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

369
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.079
<v Speaker 1>Martin returned to the passenger side of the Corolla, where

370
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Hall was trying to move in the driver's seat. He

371
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>raised his rifle and fired three shots, killing her instantly.

372
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:49.319
<v Speaker 2>And her girl or her boyfriend is in the trunk

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<v Speaker 2>hearing this correct? Huh, Yeah, and I'm sure he knows

374
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:54.880
<v Speaker 2>exactly what happened.

375
00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:00.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming he probably did. Martin hopped back into the

376
00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.240
<v Speaker 1>driver's seat of his vehicle and made his way to

377
00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:08.240
<v Speaker 1>his destination, a place called Seascape Cottage. This place was

378
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:10.440
<v Speaker 1>a bed and breakfast, and it would soon be location

379
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:14.759
<v Speaker 1>where Martin would be at a standoff with authorities. As

380
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.799
<v Speaker 1>Martin parked his car and made his way into the Seascape,

381
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.920
<v Speaker 1>he would shoot at several passing by vehicles. Thankfully, at

382
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.279
<v Speaker 1>this point no one was killed, but there were injuries.

383
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Inside the bed and Breakfast, he handcuffed his captive hostage, Glen,

384
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.799
<v Speaker 1>to the banister of the stairs inside the home. By

385
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.200
<v Speaker 1>this time, police who were notified of the horrific shootings,

386
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.680
<v Speaker 1>had made their way to the scene of where it

387
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.680
<v Speaker 1>all started, and now we're on their way to the

388
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:46.599
<v Speaker 1>Seascape cottage as well. It didn't take long for them

389
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to have the place completely surrounded, but of course they

390
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:52.400
<v Speaker 1>did not want to advance on the cottage with an

391
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:57.039
<v Speaker 1>armed man and a hostage inside. In fact, it could

392
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.839
<v Speaker 1>be more than just one hostage. The owners of the

393
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.240
<v Speaker 1>and Breakfast were not able to be located, which meant

394
00:22:03.279 --> 00:22:06.079
<v Speaker 1>there was a good chance they too were being held

395
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:07.839
<v Speaker 1>by Martin m HM.

396
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:09.519
<v Speaker 2>So three potential hostages.

397
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:14.599
<v Speaker 1>That potentially three hostages inside. So what they tried to

398
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.519
<v Speaker 1>do was talk and negotiate with Martin, but their efforts

399
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:21.160
<v Speaker 1>never seemed to really get them anywhere. Allegedly, Martin would

400
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:24.000
<v Speaker 1>talk about how he went surfing that day and didn't

401
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.079
<v Speaker 1>seem to make any real mention of the actions he

402
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.960
<v Speaker 1>had actually taken while completing a mass murder shooting.

403
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Seriously, he's just talking about the rest of his fucking day.

404
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, things like that. He probably didn't actually even do

405
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>what the Yeah. So, at some point during the standoff,

406
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:45.039
<v Speaker 1>as the hours ticked by, the phone line went dead,

407
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:46.759
<v Speaker 1>so they're talking to him on the phone, you know,

408
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.119
<v Speaker 1>all this sort of stuff. That phone line went dead.

409
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.119
<v Speaker 1>The only phone in the house was a battery operated

410
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.839
<v Speaker 1>cordless landline, so with it dead, there was no way

411
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.799
<v Speaker 1>of communications because I mean cell phones right right, yep,

412
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.519
<v Speaker 1>And any attempt to get close to the house resulted

413
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.319
<v Speaker 1>in bullets flying out the window in their direction.

414
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh boy.

415
00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Now, two of the first policemen who were on the

416
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:11.640
<v Speaker 1>scene were Pat Allen and Gary Whittle, who hid in

417
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.279
<v Speaker 1>a ditch with a view of the house. To quote

418
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.039
<v Speaker 1>Alan quote, it was very simple. I knew where he was.

419
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.720
<v Speaker 1>He was shooting at us, so I had no concerns

420
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:27.319
<v Speaker 1>about where he was. Now, the two officers were trapped

421
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.920
<v Speaker 1>in a ditch with him shooting at them, keeping them

422
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.480
<v Speaker 1>pinned down. They were there for a total of eight

423
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.960
<v Speaker 1>hours because of the constant gunfire that was threatening their position.

424
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Good God, that is so long. Yeah, oh shit, I

425
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:41.720
<v Speaker 2>can't leave this one on for that long.

426
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, that was how long those two were in the ditch.

427
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.880
<v Speaker 1>It would be a total of eighteen hours that this

428
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.839
<v Speaker 1>standoff occurred, really on the morning of April twenty ninth,

429
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.960
<v Speaker 1>with this whole standoff would finally come to an end.

430
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Martin decided he would set the seescape cottage a blaze. Now,

431
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:06.920
<v Speaker 1>whether he intended to go down with the fire or

432
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.640
<v Speaker 1>escape somehow in the commotion, it's kind of unclear, but

433
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:16.119
<v Speaker 1>either way, Martin would be caught allegedly in the process

434
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:20.680
<v Speaker 1>of setting fire. Martin caught himself on fire as well,

435
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:24.559
<v Speaker 1>and he came out running in a panic, which is

436
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.519
<v Speaker 1>when police quickly made their move and finally apprehended Martin Bryant,

437
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:36.519
<v Speaker 1>officially ending his rampage. Now, this is where I was

438
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.160
<v Speaker 1>really tempted to leave it as a two parter, and

439
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:41.519
<v Speaker 1>this is where the episode was going to end.

440
00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, I would rage.

441
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So instead I made a push to really get

442
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.319
<v Speaker 1>through all that information so far, so we can do

443
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.279
<v Speaker 1>this in one episode.

444
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Hey, well, my first question is did the guy that

445
00:24:55.119 --> 00:25:00.519
<v Speaker 2>was handcuffed to the fucking railing get saved? Please tell

446
00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:01.200
<v Speaker 2>me that he did.

447
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.640
<v Speaker 1>Well. After the fire was extinguished, investigators went inside and

448
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:11.880
<v Speaker 1>they found three bodies of the hostages inside. All had

449
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>been killed prior to the fire being set, all killed

450
00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:17.680
<v Speaker 1>via gunshot wounds.

451
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Really, so those like the shots that they were hearing

452
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 2>being fired and stuff he had already gotten Oh man, well, he.

453
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Was shooting at the police like constantly. He had a

454
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:33.240
<v Speaker 1>shit ton of ammunition.

455
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.960
<v Speaker 2>But he also killed those three in the process. Correct, Really,

456
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm shocked. Okay, Well, like you said, I fucking thought

457
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.240
<v Speaker 2>we were done at the cafe. Wow, this is unreal.

458
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 1>So that is the events of the massacre, the shooting,

459
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.960
<v Speaker 1>all of that, But there is a lot more information

460
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.680
<v Speaker 1>that builds up to this, and of course you know

461
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:57.519
<v Speaker 1>the aftermath right so.

462
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, because I can only imagine too, if they had

463
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:05.640
<v Speaker 2>known that the hostages were already deceased that this, it

464
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.839
<v Speaker 2>would have changed a little bit of things. Most likely.

465
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm not certain if it would have, because like they

466
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:17.359
<v Speaker 1>just outwaited him. Potentially, I don't know, it might have,

467
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 1>but it's hard to say. So we need to back

468
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:25.759
<v Speaker 1>up and we need to learn who Martin. Martin Bryant is, Okay,

469
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 1>So we're going to go into his history and a

470
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.039
<v Speaker 1>little bit of his upbringing. He was born on May seventh,

471
00:26:31.240 --> 00:26:36.359
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty seven, at the Queen Alexandria Hospital in Hobart, Tasmania.

472
00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.359
<v Speaker 1>He was the first child of Maurice and Carlen Bryant.

473
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 1>The family lived in Lenay Valley, but Martin also spent

474
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:46.599
<v Speaker 1>part of his childhood at their beach home in Carnavon Bay.

475
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Speaker 1>His mother, Carleen recounted in an interview later after this

476
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.119
<v Speaker 1>all occurred that Martin often broke his toys and was

477
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:00.799
<v Speaker 1>perceived as quote annoying and different from a young age.

478
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:04.720
<v Speaker 1>A psychologist assessed that Martin would likely never be able

479
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.000
<v Speaker 1>to maintain a job, as his behavior would irritate others

480
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.480
<v Speaker 1>to the point of constant trouble. From an early age,

481
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Martin exhibited disturbing behaviors. A neighbor recalled an instant where

482
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Martin shot all the parrots in the area. Additionally, dead

483
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:28.920
<v Speaker 1>animals often appeared on their property without any real natural causes.

484
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Locals noted that other are sorry other troubling actions, such

485
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.400
<v Speaker 1>as Martin pulling a snorkel from another boy while diving

486
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.119
<v Speaker 1>and cutting down trees on the neighbor's property. Teachers described

487
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:43.720
<v Speaker 1>him as distant from reality and unemotional.

488
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:46.839
<v Speaker 2>That's some scary shit right there, that is.

489
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.839
<v Speaker 1>But I mean there are a few in there that

490
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.559
<v Speaker 1>I think is just like typical, like just kid kid,

491
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.240
<v Speaker 1>Like you're cutting down some trees. Sure, maybe it's like

492
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.200
<v Speaker 1>like I went and I cut down trees. But I

493
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:01.279
<v Speaker 1>live out in the bush and Canada, there's a lot

494
00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:04.039
<v Speaker 1>of trees, a lot of like just not someone's property.

495
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 1>It's just government land, like you know, it's just acres

496
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 1>and acres and hectares. Like so maybe it's a little

497
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:10.960
<v Speaker 1>bit different for me. But some of it just like, hey,

498
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.880
<v Speaker 1>it's just harmless kid, played don't know any better. But others, yeah,

499
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:18.680
<v Speaker 1>it's definitely a little bit concerning now. At school, Martin

500
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.640
<v Speaker 1>was both a disruptive and occasionally violent, suffering severe bullying

501
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:27.920
<v Speaker 1>from his peers. After being suspended from Newtown Primary School

502
00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:32.359
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen seventy seven, psychological assessment revealed he tortured animals.

503
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Although his behavior improved slightly upon his return to school

504
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:40.000
<v Speaker 1>the following year, he continued to tease younger children. In

505
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.480
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty, Martin was transferred to a special education unit

506
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:47.079
<v Speaker 1>in Newtown High School, where his academic performance and behavior

507
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.480
<v Speaker 1>further deteriorated during his remaining school years. Question forty two.

508
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, sorry, did he was he was a bully or

509
00:28:55.240 --> 00:28:56.599
<v Speaker 2>did he get bullied or both?

510
00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:57.119
<v Speaker 1>Both?

511
00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

512
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 1>He was bullied by his peers and then whenever he

513
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:04.680
<v Speaker 1>had the opportunity. He bullied those younger weaker than him.

514
00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:05.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yep.

515
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.000
<v Speaker 1>So descriptions of Martin's behavior as an adolescent showed that

516
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.319
<v Speaker 1>he continued to exhibit disturbing traits and it didn't seem

517
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:15.240
<v Speaker 1>to be something that was going that he was going

518
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.920
<v Speaker 1>to exactly outgrow, which suggests the possibility of an intellectual disability.

519
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 1>When he left school in nineteen eighty three, a psychiatrist

520
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.640
<v Speaker 1>who assessed him for the possibility of a disability pension noted, quote,

521
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.960
<v Speaker 1>cannot read or write, does a bit of gardening, and

522
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:37.920
<v Speaker 1>watches TV only his parents' efforts prevent further deterioration. Could

523
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.920
<v Speaker 1>be schizophrenic and parents face a bleak future with him.

524
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's terrible, that is part of it.

525
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Could be schizophrenic. That's telling me, I don't think this.

526
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:55.640
<v Speaker 1>This psychiatrist is doing their proper job.

527
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, they needed to go further, Yeah, to try

528
00:29:58.240 --> 00:29:59.000
<v Speaker 2>to help yep.

529
00:29:59.119 --> 00:29:59.799
<v Speaker 1>Could be.

530
00:30:01.160 --> 00:30:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just so like daunting or almost I don't

531
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:08.680
<v Speaker 2>even know the word, but just like that's the end

532
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:10.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of thing, like this is this is it?

533
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Well that last sends could be schizophrenic, which already said

534
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.839
<v Speaker 1>is like now, yeah, it's like you could go deeper

535
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and parents face a bleak future with it. Yeah, like

536
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 1>no hope, Yeah, okay, he might be mentally ill.

537
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:21.920
<v Speaker 2>Good luck with that, Yeah, good luck?

538
00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:24.519
<v Speaker 1>What the fuck? Maybe you could look into this and

539
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.440
<v Speaker 1>give us tools to deal with it. So not too

540
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 1>fond of this psychiatrist just saying that.

541
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.039
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, was there just maybe not anything else

542
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 2>available at that time, or I don't know, I mean,

543
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

544
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:39.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's a necessarily a product at

545
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.599
<v Speaker 1>the time. We're almost entering two thousands. Oh I believe

546
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>are eighties. Sorry, we are in the eighties, nineteen eighty three,

547
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, it is eighties. Maybe it is a product

548
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:49.960
<v Speaker 1>at the time.

549
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm not certain, but either way that sucks.

550
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.640
<v Speaker 1>It is now. There is an important point in Martin's

551
00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:01.799
<v Speaker 1>life which occurred in early nineteen eighty seven, when, at

552
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:05.720
<v Speaker 1>nineteen years old, he met fifty four year old Helen

553
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Mary Elizabeth Harvey. Helen was, for a lack of better words,

554
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 1>rich as fuck, like rich as fuck, the true the

555
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 1>two cross paths. When Martin was seeking new customers for

556
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.559
<v Speaker 1>his lawnmowing service, as a psychiatrist, said he enjoyed things

557
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>at gardening, right, So he was getting out doing some

558
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:28.960
<v Speaker 1>gardening service or lawnmowing and all that sort of stuff.

559
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.200
<v Speaker 1>So Helen befriended Martin and he quickly became a regular

560
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 1>visitor to her mansion in Newtown. Martin assisted with various tasks,

561
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.839
<v Speaker 1>such as feeding the fourteen dogs inside the house and

562
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.680
<v Speaker 1>some forty cats that lived on the property.

563
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, minus the cats. Not that I hate cats, but

564
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.119
<v Speaker 2>that sounded like paradise all those dogs.

565
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, mansion it is. But the only problem is the

566
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.279
<v Speaker 1>property in mansion were not being looked after they were deteriorated.

567
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:57.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, fast.

568
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.799
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety, already found the house in such terrible

569
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:07.240
<v Speaker 1>condition they issued a mandatory cleanup order. So following this,

570
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:11.000
<v Speaker 1>Helen invited Martin to live with her in the mansion.

571
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:17.000
<v Speaker 1>The two began spending money lavishly, including purchasing more than

572
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:19.559
<v Speaker 1>thirty new cars in less than three years.

573
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 2>Good God.

574
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.880
<v Speaker 1>They became inseparable, often spending their days shopping extensively after

575
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.640
<v Speaker 1>dining at local restaurants.

576
00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Is this like a friendship thing or more.

577
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:32.240
<v Speaker 1>As far as I'm aware, just a friendship thing? Okay, Yeah,

578
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:34.359
<v Speaker 1>I mean I think she's, like, you know, she's getting

579
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.759
<v Speaker 1>up there in her age a little bit. You know,

580
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.960
<v Speaker 1>she's she's kind of just looking this fucking mansion and alone.

581
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:41.759
<v Speaker 1>She was living with her mom, but her mom had

582
00:32:41.799 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 1>passed away, I think, just prior to her inviting Martin.

583
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:46.119
<v Speaker 2>To live with her.

584
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:47.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so I think it was kind of more like

585
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.920
<v Speaker 1>just companionships every thing, needing a friend and Martin I

586
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 1>didn't really talk a whole lot about this, but in

587
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 1>his younger years and even into adulthood, he had trouble

588
00:32:57.799 --> 00:32:59.680
<v Speaker 1>making friends too, Like he was bullied, He was a

589
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 1>bit odd, you know. He also, I think was seeking

590
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:04.039
<v Speaker 1>out companionship.

591
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Ye.

592
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:05.519
<v Speaker 1>So I think it was just kind of a match

593
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:10.160
<v Speaker 1>made in Heaven to have someone for both of them. Now,

594
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 1>around this period, Martin was released, sorry reassessed for his

595
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:19.720
<v Speaker 1>pension and a concerning note was added to his paperwork. Quote,

596
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:24.240
<v Speaker 1>father protects him from any occasion which might upset him

597
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:29.279
<v Speaker 1>as he continually threatens violence. Martin tells me he would

598
00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:33.039
<v Speaker 1>like to go around shooting people. It would be unsafe

599
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>to allow Martin out of his parents' control. Oh okay, Yeah,

600
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:42.440
<v Speaker 1>so that is a quote from the paperwork that was

601
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>on his pension reassessment. Martin tells me he would like

602
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to go around shooting people.

603
00:33:52.359 --> 00:34:00.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, Okay, that is just so fucking alarming. But else, oh,

604
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:06.519
<v Speaker 2>I guess, like what do you do? What do you do? Right? Like, Yeah,

605
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I'm struggling to know what to say

606
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:11.599
<v Speaker 2>in regards to that.

607
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Understandable, it's a tough situation. Yeah, right now that onus

608
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:21.559
<v Speaker 1>is on his parents. They have the knowledge passed on

609
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:22.599
<v Speaker 1>by these professionals.

610
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:27.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but like I mean, can they be there twenty

611
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:28.039
<v Speaker 2>for seven kind of you.

612
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Know, they can't watch they can't Yeah, I mean there's

613
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:36.599
<v Speaker 1>there's technically no mental disability or anything that has been

614
00:34:36.639 --> 00:34:41.519
<v Speaker 1>diagnosed of him. Nothing. It's just like I might be schizophrenic,

615
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, he kind of wants to shoot people. He

616
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.760
<v Speaker 1>has trouble making friends. His IQ is kind of low.

617
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Like that's all that it is.

618
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.400
<v Speaker 2>That is just the most hot, like just such a

619
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>hard position to be in for like everybody around because

620
00:34:56.800 --> 00:34:59.119
<v Speaker 2>you think that you need you should help, like, but

621
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:02.039
<v Speaker 2>there's really seem to be like no resources. And then

622
00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:06.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, this is like I feel pretty okay

623
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.199
<v Speaker 2>with not having a kid. Why because like that is

624
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.360
<v Speaker 2>just such a terrible position to be I I can't

625
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>even imagine.

626
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.320
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of pressure, and it's a failure of

627
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:18.800
<v Speaker 1>the system on this person.

628
00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:21.119
<v Speaker 2>Because it seems like they just have no support whatsoever.

629
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:25.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so if there's a parent who needs support, where's

630
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:28.920
<v Speaker 1>it coming from. Oh, your kid might be schitzo, you fucked? Yeah,

631
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Oh your kid wants to shoot people have fun. Excuse me, No,

632
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:33.039
<v Speaker 1>I get.

633
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:37.679
<v Speaker 2>What you're saying, Like, that's just so it's devastating.

634
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Really, it really is. So no, I feel you now.

635
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.920
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety one, due to a prohibition on keeping

636
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.840
<v Speaker 1>animals at the house, Helen and Martin moved to a

637
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.079
<v Speaker 1>twenty nine hectare or seventy two acre farm called Tarsville

638
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:56.119
<v Speaker 1>in Coping, which was a small township. Neighbors recalled that

639
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Martin often carried an air gun with him, which he

640
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:03.639
<v Speaker 1>fired at tourists stopping by to buy apples at the

641
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:07.559
<v Speaker 1>roadside stall. Late at night, he would wander through nearby properties,

642
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.960
<v Speaker 1>shooting at dogs when they would bark at him. Now,

643
00:36:11.000 --> 00:36:12.719
<v Speaker 1>an air gun is most likely something like a BB

644
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.480
<v Speaker 1>gun or something quite harmless. Really, but I mean, if

645
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.039
<v Speaker 1>you get in an eye, you're kind of fucked.

646
00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 2>Put well, and I just realized too. Hopefully it's not

647
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:23.360
<v Speaker 2>doing anything terrible to all these animals that they have.

648
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:26.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm yeah, I don't know, boy, I.

649
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.599
<v Speaker 2>Kind of didn't. I forgot about that, okay.

650
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the two of them were basically having a

651
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:34.679
<v Speaker 1>grand old time together living on this farm, and they

652
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.159
<v Speaker 1>still had the other house as well, so it was

653
00:36:36.199 --> 00:36:37.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of like doing a bit of back and forth,

654
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:39.400
<v Speaker 1>but just to have the animals hey the farm, right,

655
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.079
<v Speaker 1>So from then on they were just living life. But

656
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.320
<v Speaker 1>on October twentieth, nineteen ninety two, tragedy would strike. Helen,

657
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.920
<v Speaker 1>who was then fifty nine years old, was killed along

658
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.760
<v Speaker 1>with two of the dogs that were in the car

659
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:57.360
<v Speaker 1>with her. So the car had veered onto the wrong

660
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.760
<v Speaker 1>side of the road and collided with a on vehicle

661
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.199
<v Speaker 1>coming the other direction. Martin was in the vehicle two

662
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>during the accident and suffered severe neck and mac injuries,

663
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.159
<v Speaker 1>resulting in a seven month hospital stay. So Helen of

664
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:17.519
<v Speaker 1>course passed away, but after the hospital Martin recovered. Now

665
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.880
<v Speaker 1>police did briefly investigate Martin's role in the accident due

666
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:25.639
<v Speaker 1>to his apparent known habit of lunging for the steering wheel.

667
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:32.440
<v Speaker 1>This behavior had already caused three previous accidents.

668
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.000
<v Speaker 2>With Helen or just accidents.

669
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it was specifically with Helen, or

670
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:41.320
<v Speaker 1>if his parents and Helen or what. But Helen had

671
00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 1>often told people that she never drove faster than sixty

672
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.320
<v Speaker 1>kilometers per hour or thirty seven miles power. Yeah, because

673
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>of Martin's unpredictable actions. She allegedly confided in a neighbor

674
00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:54.760
<v Speaker 1>once saying, quote, one of these days, the little bastard

675
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:55.880
<v Speaker 1>is going to kill me.

676
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, wow, and lo and behold that happened.

677
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.199
<v Speaker 1>If veers off her vehicle, veers into oncoming traffic and

678
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:07.239
<v Speaker 1>she fucking dies.

679
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:11.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, yeah, because it doesn't. I mean, there are

680
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.639
<v Speaker 2>lots of reasons that could happen, really, I guess, but

681
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:16.880
<v Speaker 2>you kind of think it's you.

682
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Know, the evidence kind of points one way. Yeah, but

683
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 1>there wasn't enough evidence to really say for sure, and

684
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:26.360
<v Speaker 1>the incident was eventually deemed an accident. But many people still,

685
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:29.000
<v Speaker 1>and I mean like today, speculate and believe that Martin

686
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:34.199
<v Speaker 1>was ultimately responsible for the accident and her death, especially

687
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:37.119
<v Speaker 1>when you consider that not not long before her death,

688
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Helen had named Martin the sole beneficiary of her will,

689
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:46.679
<v Speaker 1>which saw him inheriting assets worth over five hundred and

690
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:51.840
<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand dollars Australian, which is equivalent to approximately eight

691
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:55.400
<v Speaker 1>hundred and nineteen thousand dollars US today or one point

692
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>one million dollars Canadian today.

693
00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:01.159
<v Speaker 2>No shit, Hey, yeah, really.

694
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, ma'am did.

695
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, she didn't have anyone else to leave that too.

696
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, like I said, I think this was like she

697
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.519
<v Speaker 1>has no one, she needs a friend, and Martin needed

698
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.199
<v Speaker 1>a friend too. And then so that's why they had

699
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:15.519
<v Speaker 1>this relationship together.

700
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Hmm.

701
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:18.760
<v Speaker 1>They relied in each other, they enjoyed the company.

702
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:22.320
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, so it's not really like in a way,

703
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:25.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm almost thinking like, was he manipulating her? But it

704
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:26.679
<v Speaker 2>does I don't think so.

705
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. If he was manipulating her, I

706
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.159
<v Speaker 1>think it would have this would have taken place much

707
00:39:32.360 --> 00:39:35.079
<v Speaker 1>in a much shorter time period because this was like

708
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:36.440
<v Speaker 1>a freaking decade.

709
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.360
<v Speaker 2>Basically, right, Okay, Okay.

710
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:43.239
<v Speaker 1>So I think there was a legitimate friendship here. I

711
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.360
<v Speaker 1>personally do think that Martin is responsible for her death.

712
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:52.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if the will part plays a role

713
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.559
<v Speaker 1>in it or not, because he does already have a

714
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:56.880
<v Speaker 1>history of veering people.

715
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:59.199
<v Speaker 2>Off well and it already kind of seemed like he

716
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.159
<v Speaker 2>he had access to her money too. He did in

717
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 2>a sense, right.

718
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:03.920
<v Speaker 1>He certainly did, so I don't there's no real reason

719
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 1>why he would just need it all. Yeah, he might

720
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:09.599
<v Speaker 1>not even even have known that she changed her will.

721
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 1>It's hard to say. I'm going to assume he didn't know,

722
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.199
<v Speaker 1>and the will is not a part of it. But

723
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.559
<v Speaker 1>I do still think that he pulled on that wheel

724
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:22.760
<v Speaker 1>and he veered him off into the other lane. But

725
00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:24.760
<v Speaker 1>I do believe their friendship was also very real too.

726
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:29.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what a like, what an interesting habit? Yeah, to

727
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:33.199
<v Speaker 2>have right like that is obviously dangerous as.

728
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Fuck, no kidding. Now, with Martin's mental capacity, let's put

729
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:40.360
<v Speaker 1>it that way, he had a vague under only a

730
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.119
<v Speaker 1>vague understanding of financial matters, which again plays into the

731
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.960
<v Speaker 1>will portion, right like, really, so his mother took over

732
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.039
<v Speaker 1>managing his finances while his father, Maurice, took care of

733
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:53.800
<v Speaker 1>the property, which was like the farm and then the house,

734
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:59.280
<v Speaker 1>right right. Maurice, however, had reportedly been prescribed antidepressants and

735
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:05.800
<v Speaker 1>had transferred his and his wife's bank account, their joint

736
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:11.000
<v Speaker 1>bank account into solely his wife's name. Okay, he did

737
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>this secretly, and on August fourteenth, nineteen ninety three, a

738
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.519
<v Speaker 1>visitor on the property found a note on the door

739
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:22.239
<v Speaker 1>recalling quote, call the police, and several thousand dollars in

740
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.159
<v Speaker 1>Maurice's car, but Maurice was nowhere to be found. Two

741
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:30.519
<v Speaker 1>days later, on August sixteenth, his body was found in

742
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the dam near the farmhouse with a diving belt, a

743
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:36.719
<v Speaker 1>weighted diving belt around his neck.

744
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Dang.

745
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.559
<v Speaker 1>So potentially he had put the bank account in his

746
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:47.480
<v Speaker 1>wife's name because and on antidepressants because he was planning.

747
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Ye Oh, that's sad.

748
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:53.239
<v Speaker 1>Now. Police describe the death as quote unnatural, ultimately ruling

749
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:57.519
<v Speaker 1>it a suicide. As a result, Martin sorry, Martin inherited

750
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:02.199
<v Speaker 1>an additional two hundred and fifty thousand and Australian dollars.

751
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Like it didn't all just go to the wife,

752
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:06.320
<v Speaker 2>I guess then, Well, I.

753
00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:08.519
<v Speaker 1>Think this came from like a part of his pension

754
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 1>plan or something. So I think there was some to

755
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 1>the wife and some to him from this, and then

756
00:42:13.639 --> 00:42:16.719
<v Speaker 1>whatever finances they had, like equity for example, or in

757
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:17.960
<v Speaker 1>the bank account, that was all the wife.

758
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.719
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, was he like would you say he was

759
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:22.239
<v Speaker 2>close with his parents?

760
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Okay, from what I found, I couldn't

761
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:29.039
<v Speaker 1>really tell. But I did find a couple of articles

762
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:32.840
<v Speaker 1>saying that Martin apparently was pretty nonchalant and even laughed

763
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:36.760
<v Speaker 1>at the prospect of his dad's body being found.

764
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Col that is which leads to disturbing us.

765
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, it leads me to the next thing I

766
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.679
<v Speaker 1>was going to say. Some speculate that Martin may also

767
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.119
<v Speaker 1>have been responsible for his father's death, and many of

768
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:53.599
<v Speaker 1>them point to the fact that the diet of the

769
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.480
<v Speaker 1>weighted diving belt actually belonged to Martin.

770
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Like he kind of helped him or pushed him to

771
00:42:59.400 --> 00:42:59.639
<v Speaker 2>do it.

772
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.599
<v Speaker 1>And I don't know, but potentially that he could have

773
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:06.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe he knocked him out and put the belt around

774
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 1>his neck and dumped in the water. I don't know,

775
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.159
<v Speaker 1>but some some speculates that Martin could have been responsible.

776
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Huh. That is interesting that.

777
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:18.559
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure if I'm on board with that. I

778
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:21.880
<v Speaker 1>think the moving and the bank account right there says

779
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:22.440
<v Speaker 1>it all to me.

780
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.280
<v Speaker 2>But also there was too, like the lack of hope

781
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 2>that he had that regard like to helping his son

782
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 2>and stuff, right Like, I mean, it would just all play.

783
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:36.400
<v Speaker 2>I think on his mental health.

784
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:40.079
<v Speaker 1>That's true. It's very true. So with the death of

785
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:46.199
<v Speaker 1>his father and Helen, Martin became increasingly isolated. Between nineteen

786
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.960
<v Speaker 1>ninety three and late nineteen ninety five, he traveled overseas

787
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:54.039
<v Speaker 1>fourteen times and had an extensive record of domestic flights

788
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:59.360
<v Speaker 1>as well, which apparently filled three pages. Despite these trips,

789
00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Martin felt as lonely as he did abroad as he

790
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:07.360
<v Speaker 1>did in Tasmania. The trips didn't help whatsoever, and he

791
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.320
<v Speaker 1>was just alone.

792
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, I love traveling, but I also don't

793
00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:16.199
<v Speaker 2>feel like it's super. It doesn't like super connect you

794
00:44:16.280 --> 00:44:18.079
<v Speaker 2>to people necessarily, right, well.

795
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:22.800
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't. But like, Martin particularly enjoyed flying, primarily because

796
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:26.559
<v Speaker 1>it allowed him to engage with fellow passengers, people who

797
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:28.920
<v Speaker 1>were sitting next to him, who had no choice but

798
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.079
<v Speaker 1>to be polite and engage in conversation.

799
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:35.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh fuck, I would hate that. I I don't love

800
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't enjoy having to talk to people on like

801
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:39.800
<v Speaker 2>planes when you're just like forced.

802
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, nope, Martin, it's super awkward. Actually, Martin certainly did,

803
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:46.519
<v Speaker 1>and he actually later in different interviews, actually took pleasure

804
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.880
<v Speaker 1>in recounting some of these conversations that he had.

805
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:51.639
<v Speaker 2>That is so sad though. That makes me feel like,

806
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.199
<v Speaker 2>not that I'm ever rude or anything, but I'm like

807
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:57.639
<v Speaker 2>usually listening to a book or watching something, and you know,

808
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.599
<v Speaker 2>but that now makes me feel so sad. Yeah, he

809
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:02.639
<v Speaker 2>just wanted to talk to the person next to him.

810
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So Martin's isolation led him to become eventually suicidal,

811
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Expressing that he felt more and more people were against him.

812
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:17.440
<v Speaker 1>He said, quote when I tried to be friendly towards them,

813
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:22.840
<v Speaker 1>they just walked away. Though previously a social drinker, Martin's

814
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:28.199
<v Speaker 1>alcohol consumption significantly began increasing, especially in the six months

815
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:32.159
<v Speaker 1>leading up to the Port Arthur massacre. On average, he

816
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:35.719
<v Speaker 1>consumed half a bottle of sambuca and a bottle of

817
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:41.639
<v Speaker 1>Bailey's Irish Cream daily, whoa supplemented with port wine and

818
00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:45.760
<v Speaker 1>other sweet alcoholic drinks. So he is consuming quite a

819
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:49.119
<v Speaker 1>bit of alcohol on the daily basis.

820
00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:53.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which I mean, I couldn't imagine would help his

821
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:56.199
<v Speaker 2>condition any and like his mental health not at all.

822
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but with all that alcohol consumption, Like, despite all

823
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:07.159
<v Speaker 1>this heavy drinking, he had not consumed any alcohol on

824
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:12.079
<v Speaker 1>the day of the massacre. None really Stone sober.

825
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that seems that's like, that's confusing.

826
00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:19.599
<v Speaker 1>Hey, yeah, you tell me. Huh is it ever.

827
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:21.719
<v Speaker 2>You think that you would have consumed even more on

828
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:22.199
<v Speaker 2>that day?

829
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:27.079
<v Speaker 1>Nope, not a drum huh yeah shit.

830
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

831
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.079
<v Speaker 1>So, according to Martin, the idea for the Port Arthur

832
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:35.000
<v Speaker 1>attack might have come to him somewhere between four to

833
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:40.199
<v Speaker 1>twelve weeks before the actual event. Now he's given conflicting

834
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:43.559
<v Speaker 1>and confusing accounts of what really drove him to kill

835
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the people at Port Arthur, but one possible motive was

836
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.599
<v Speaker 1>his desire for attention. He allegedly told next door neighbor quote,

837
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:56.639
<v Speaker 1>I'll do something that will make everyone remember me. Though

838
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.480
<v Speaker 1>no one specific reason has ever been given by Martin,

839
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:03.800
<v Speaker 1>many leave his true motivation for the attack was initially

840
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:08.920
<v Speaker 1>started with the bed and breakfast known as the Seascape Cottage,

841
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.199
<v Speaker 1>which was the same place where the eighteen hours standoff

842
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:19.440
<v Speaker 1>had occurred, so Martin suspected suspects the sorry Martin's suspected

843
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:22.840
<v Speaker 1>motivations for the massacre there we go were the refusal

844
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.000
<v Speaker 1>of the sale of the Sea Escape by owners David

845
00:47:26.039 --> 00:47:31.960
<v Speaker 1>and Noel Martin. Apparently, Martin's father Maurice had interest in

846
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.320
<v Speaker 1>buying the se Escape Cottage while it was for sale,

847
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:36.760
<v Speaker 1>but in the time it took him to get his

848
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 1>finances and orders to make the purchase, David and Noel

849
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:45.000
<v Speaker 1>came in and bought it instead. So the hard feelings

850
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>continued for some time about this. The whole fact that,

851
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:49.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, was kind of like scooped up underneath them

852
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:52.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, and Maurice often complained to his son

853
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:56.880
<v Speaker 1>about the quote double dealing involved in the purchase. He

854
00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:00.920
<v Speaker 1>offered to buy another property from the Martins on Palmer's

855
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:05.880
<v Speaker 1>Lookout Road, but they allegedly declined. To Martin this was

856
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:10.239
<v Speaker 1>all intentional. He firmly believed that they had deliberately bought

857
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:13.719
<v Speaker 1>the property to harm his family, and he attributed this

858
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 1>event to the depression that led to his father's suicide

859
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.519
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety three. He later described the Martins as

860
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:26.360
<v Speaker 1>quote very mean people end quote the worst people in

861
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:26.920
<v Speaker 1>my life.

862
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's like that's pretty hard. I mean, shit like

863
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:33.119
<v Speaker 2>that happens though.

864
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, I mean it's not their fault. They bought

865
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:36.800
<v Speaker 1>the promo. They wanted it too.

866
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that is that's like a normal life thing.

867
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:43.280
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, sometimes you win sometimes to lose, right, it's

868
00:48:43.360 --> 00:48:44.840
<v Speaker 1>just how it goes.

869
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:48.800
<v Speaker 2>He's feeling like he had He needs someone to blame though, Yeah,

870
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:50.199
<v Speaker 2>for his dad's.

871
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Death potentially, and for why he's so alone and why

872
00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 1>he's miserable.

873
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

874
00:48:57.800 --> 00:49:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Now, for many people, they point to this as the

875
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:06.679
<v Speaker 1>major moment that brought this horrible incident, this massacre to

876
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:08.199
<v Speaker 1>fruition Ky.

877
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:10.280
<v Speaker 2>But honestly that it kind of makes sense, I guess

878
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:12.840
<v Speaker 2>the end of it, but doesn't make sense him starting

879
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.719
<v Speaker 2>and killing all those people before. It doesn't. Okay, that

880
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:18.559
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense.

881
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I'll touch on it here.

882
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

883
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, regardless of his motivation, with the money Martin

884
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.920
<v Speaker 1>had lining his pockets, he soon began stockpiling guns and

885
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:34.119
<v Speaker 1>ammunition he had purchased from anyone he could. Even though

886
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:40.000
<v Speaker 1>he didn't have a license, Martin just began stockpiling and stockpiling,

887
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.440
<v Speaker 1>and eventually, on April twenty eight to nineteen ninety six,

888
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Martin began his killing spree, not by heading to the cafe,

889
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:52.639
<v Speaker 1>but by heading to the Seascape Cottage.

890
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh he had started there.

891
00:49:58.519 --> 00:50:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Here. Martin would kill the the owners of the cottage,

892
00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:06.079
<v Speaker 1>David and Neeline, before pairing himself and heading off to

893
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Port Arthur and beginning the rest of his rampage.

894
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:16.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so they were already Yeah, I didn't see that

895
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:20.679
<v Speaker 2>coming at all. No, not even in the slightest Well.

896
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:24.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what happened. He killed them, went off to Port Arthur,

897
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:28.599
<v Speaker 1>took his hostage, went back to this escape cottage where

898
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:33.760
<v Speaker 1>he had already moved ammunition and rifles and stockpiling into

899
00:50:33.800 --> 00:50:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the cottage. Wow, And from there had the eighteen hours

900
00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:42.239
<v Speaker 1>stand off with police. In some point in time within

901
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:46.400
<v Speaker 1>those eighteen hours, killed his hostage, lit the place on fire,

902
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:51.320
<v Speaker 1>catching himself on fire consequently, and exiting to get arrested.

903
00:50:51.719 --> 00:50:54.320
<v Speaker 2>So he had already killed these owners and then went

904
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to this pier, had some fucking lunch and then just

905
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:04.800
<v Speaker 2>went a vote it correct. Uh that is something yeah,

906
00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:06.199
<v Speaker 2>no kidding total.

907
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:12.480
<v Speaker 1>So, while awaiting trial, Martin underwent several different examinations. Forensic

908
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:17.840
<v Speaker 1>psychologist Ian Joblin determined that Martin was borderline mentally disabled,

909
00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:21.559
<v Speaker 1>with an IQ of sixty six, equivalent to that of

910
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:26.599
<v Speaker 1>an eleven year old. Court appointed psychiatrist Ian Sale concluded

911
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:31.280
<v Speaker 1>that Martin exhibited a mix of conduct disorder, attention deficit,

912
00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:37.719
<v Speaker 1>hyperactivity disorder, and traits associated with Asperger syndrome. Psychiatrist Paul Mullen,

913
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>brought in by Martin's legal counsel, found that Martin was

914
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:47.480
<v Speaker 1>both socially and intellectually impaired. However, Malin did not find

915
00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:52.039
<v Speaker 1>evidence of schizophrenia or mood disorder. He concluded that quote,

916
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:56.199
<v Speaker 1>though mister Brian was clearly a distressed and disturbed young man,

917
00:51:56.599 --> 00:52:01.320
<v Speaker 1>he was not mentally ill. He was found fit to

918
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:01.960
<v Speaker 1>stand trial.

919
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Really, okay, I'm finding that very surprising.

920
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:11.039
<v Speaker 1>Now. He initially pled guilty, sorry, pled not guilty to

921
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:14.360
<v Speaker 1>the thirty five murders.

922
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.639
<v Speaker 2>During this trial five lives.

923
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Thirty five, but near the end he suddenly decided to

924
00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:25.159
<v Speaker 1>change his plea to guilty. He was sentenced to thirty

925
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:31.280
<v Speaker 1>five consecutive life sentences plus one thousand, six hundred and

926
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:34.719
<v Speaker 1>fifty two years in prison for his crimes, or, to

927
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:40.920
<v Speaker 1>put it simply, never to be released, Australia's maximum sentence.

928
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, honestly, that's like good. I feel like that's

929
00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:46.320
<v Speaker 2>how many sentences should be.

930
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I agree, locked up for life?

931
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:51.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, if you're taking that many lives, like,

932
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:52.800
<v Speaker 2>you can't just.

933
00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Like reform only goes so far.

934
00:52:56.199 --> 00:52:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, and you can't just like document one life like

935
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I think you do need to like consecutively. They're all,

936
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, lives.

937
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.400
<v Speaker 1>You can't be tried for a single Like if you

938
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.880
<v Speaker 1>kill thirty five people, you need to be held accountable

939
00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:09.360
<v Speaker 1>for thirty five murders.

940
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, not just.

941
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Be like okay, well we're gonna like wave off thirty

942
00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 1>four if you plead guilty to one like.

943
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Fuck no, yeah, or you can't just have the max

944
00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:20.840
<v Speaker 2>like twenty five years. It should be twenty five years

945
00:53:20.840 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 2>for each person.

946
00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:24.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I fully agree with you.

947
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:25.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

948
00:53:25.639 --> 00:53:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Now, the Broad Arrow Cafe that's located in Port Arthur,

949
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:31.480
<v Speaker 1>where the mass shooting started, has been turned into a

950
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:35.400
<v Speaker 1>place for reflection and immemorial in the hopes of preventing

951
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:39.320
<v Speaker 1>similar crimes. Gun control laws in many areas of Australia

952
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:44.920
<v Speaker 1>were significantly strengthened in the aftermath of the tragedy. So

953
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:50.159
<v Speaker 1>I am a strong advocate for safety, having a professional

954
00:53:50.159 --> 00:53:53.039
<v Speaker 1>background and occupational health and safety. There is a saying

955
00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:56.519
<v Speaker 1>that I've heard through my profession, and it's that safety

956
00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:01.079
<v Speaker 1>regulations are written in blood. Yeah, meaning often takes someone

957
00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:05.159
<v Speaker 1>to get hurt or killed for change to finally happen

958
00:54:05.239 --> 00:54:08.480
<v Speaker 1>for that legislation to be written so it takes their

959
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:12.159
<v Speaker 1>blood for that to be written. So SA written in blood.

960
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:17.519
<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen eighty seven, nine years before the shooting,

961
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:23.079
<v Speaker 1>the premiere of New South Wales declared this quote, it

962
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.320
<v Speaker 1>will take a massacre in Tasmania before we get gun

963
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:34.079
<v Speaker 1>reform in Australia. Within days of the Port Arthur massacre,

964
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Australian Prime Minister John Howard announced that the country's gun

965
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:40.920
<v Speaker 1>laws would undergo significant change.

966
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Gosh, that's not good. That's not good.

967
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Nope, it's difficult for people to take a proactive approach

968
00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 1>because hey, nothing's gone bad yet.

969
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I mean you can't you can't, like, you

970
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:56.559
<v Speaker 2>can't live like that.

971
00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Nope.

972
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:00.840
<v Speaker 2>But I mean also you anticipating the world happening too,

973
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.159
<v Speaker 2>was you know someone? Is also not a good way

974
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:03.519
<v Speaker 2>to live.

975
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:09.199
<v Speaker 1>Yep. So the new regulations banned automatic and semi automatic

976
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:12.440
<v Speaker 1>long guns. Additionally, gun owners were required to apply for

977
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:16.320
<v Speaker 1>license and provide a quote genuine reason for owning a

978
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:22.320
<v Speaker 1>firearm excluding personal protection. Australia also initiated a gun buy

979
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:27.880
<v Speaker 1>back program, which successfully reduced firearms suicides by seventy four percent,

980
00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:33.559
<v Speaker 1>saving approximately two hundred lives annually. That's good since support

981
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Arthur massacre in nineteen ninety six. Australia has not experienced

982
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:39.599
<v Speaker 1>a single mass shooting.

983
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I just have to say though, too, he had so

984
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:46.960
<v Speaker 2>much money right like there, and money can buy things,

985
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:50.880
<v Speaker 2>whether they're legal or not. Yeah, So I mean this

986
00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:53.039
<v Speaker 2>that might have not even fully stopped him.

987
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:57.119
<v Speaker 1>Right, It's true, that's true. So Martin Bryant remains in

988
00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.920
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinement in prison to this day. He killed thirty

989
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:05.280
<v Speaker 1>five people and wounded twenty three more. The following is

990
00:56:05.280 --> 00:56:07.960
<v Speaker 1>a list of those killed in the shooting that he

991
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:13.360
<v Speaker 1>committed at Port Arthur Winnifred Joyce Alfin fifty eight, Walter

992
00:56:13.480 --> 00:56:18.440
<v Speaker 1>John Bennett sixty six, Nicole Luis Burgess seventeen, Sue Leang

993
00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:24.079
<v Speaker 1>Chung thirty two, Elva Runda Gaillard forty eight, Zoe Ann

994
00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:29.559
<v Speaker 1>Hall twenty eight, Elizabeth Jane Howard twenty six, Mary Elizabeth

995
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Howard fifty seven, Sarah Kate Lawton fifteen, David Martin seventy two,

996
00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Noel Sally Joyce Martin sixty nine, Pauline Georgina Masters forty nine,

997
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:51.119
<v Speaker 1>Elena Luis Meekak six, Madeline Grace Meekak three, Ninette Patricia

998
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:55.880
<v Speaker 1>Meekak thirty six, Andrew Bruce Mills thirty nine, Mary Rose

999
00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:01.559
<v Speaker 1>Nixon sixty, Glenroy Peers thirty five, Russelled, James Pollard seventy two,

1000
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:08.119
<v Speaker 1>Jeanette Kathleen Quinn fifty, Helen Maria Salzman fifty, Robert Graham

1001
00:57:08.119 --> 00:57:14.039
<v Speaker 1>Salzman fifty seven, Kate Elizabeth Scott twenty one, Mervin John

1002
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Howard fifty five, Ronald Noel Jerry seventy one, Tony Vadiliu

1003
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:25.079
<v Speaker 1>Kristen fifty one, Leslie Dennis Lever fifty three, Peter Brenton

1004
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Nash thirty two, Gwenda Jones Ninder sixty seven, William zen

1005
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Nigg forty eight, Anthony Natandale forty four, Kevin Vincent Sharp

1006
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:40.880
<v Speaker 1>sixty eight, Raymond John Sharp sixty seven, Royce William Thompson

1007
00:57:41.199 --> 00:57:45.119
<v Speaker 1>fifty nine, Jason Bernard Winter twenty nine.

1008
00:57:46.599 --> 00:57:52.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that is just like such a like a blood

1009
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:53.400
<v Speaker 2>chilling list.

1010
00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, wow, that is the case of the Port Arthur massacre.

1011
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:04.119
<v Speaker 2>I can't stop thinking too like so many on that

1012
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:09.000
<v Speaker 2>list where I feel like probably retired, like exploring.

1013
00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you know, And because of that, it was hard

1014
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:16.280
<v Speaker 1>for them to initially react when he started shooting, to

1015
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.599
<v Speaker 1>get up out of the chair. Oh to run.

1016
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:31.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, yeah, wow, yeah, thanks, sorry, because here I

1017
00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:34.159
<v Speaker 2>was just thinking, like they're exploring, traveling, living their life,

1018
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:38.159
<v Speaker 2>but I didn't think that. It's like their bodies were

1019
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:39.840
<v Speaker 2>not allowing them to get away.

1020
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:42.599
<v Speaker 1>I don't think they would have gotten away, but it

1021
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:46.719
<v Speaker 1>made it just that much harder to react quickly because

1022
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:49.079
<v Speaker 1>I know when the cafe, I read some articles about that,

1023
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:52.039
<v Speaker 1>because many in like the cafe and gift shop and

1024
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:56.559
<v Speaker 1>stuff were of like an older age that the reaction

1025
00:58:56.679 --> 00:59:00.840
<v Speaker 1>time was not as swift.

1026
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well my heart was kind of already in my

1027
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:08.599
<v Speaker 2>stomach and now it really is, sorry, foot brutal.

1028
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:12.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that that was a whole lot of information

1029
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:15.239
<v Speaker 1>on that case. I really just threw it all out

1030
00:59:15.239 --> 00:59:17.599
<v Speaker 1>there for you guys. Hopefully you were able to soak

1031
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.800
<v Speaker 1>it all in. I realized I might have at one

1032
00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:22.960
<v Speaker 1>point said that the case that the events took place

1033
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:28.480
<v Speaker 1>in ninety eight, it's ninety six. So yeah, just clarifying that.

1034
00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:33.880
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, I honestly, I know there's a lot of

1035
00:59:34.119 --> 00:59:37.400
<v Speaker 1>people against different gun laws because there's stuff that's been

1036
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:40.199
<v Speaker 1>happening here in Canada over the past few years regarding that.

1037
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:46.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, and I don't think anyone knows how

1038
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:51.840
<v Speaker 1>to correct the situation. Yeah, how to make sure that

1039
00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:57.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, people don't get shot. But clearly having some

1040
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:00.000
<v Speaker 1>sort of reform program does make a difference.

1041
01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:03.039
<v Speaker 2>It does make a difference. But I also, like, I like,

1042
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:07.000
<v Speaker 2>we live in such a fucked up world that I mean,

1043
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:09.199
<v Speaker 2>if there's a will, there's a way.

1044
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:09.880
<v Speaker 1>That's true.

1045
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.599
<v Speaker 2>That's very true, which is such a bummer to say,

1046
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:13.639
<v Speaker 2>but like which.

1047
01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Offers the counter argument of well, if I don't have

1048
01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:19.320
<v Speaker 1>a gun, and the people who have the will and

1049
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:22.719
<v Speaker 1>find a way do have a gun, how can I

1050
01:00:22.760 --> 01:00:26.239
<v Speaker 1>defend myself? Like, I totally get it. So there's two

1051
01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:29.920
<v Speaker 1>sides to this coin, and it's I can't. I don't

1052
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:32.440
<v Speaker 1>know the answer, Like I said, I don't think anyone does.

1053
01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:35.920
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, it does stop. It definitely does stop some.

1054
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.199
<v Speaker 1>It does stop some, but it won't stop all. Yeah,

1055
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:42.880
<v Speaker 1>And if it can't stop all, then how are you

1056
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:46.880
<v Speaker 1>going to defend yourself against those Because those that do

1057
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:50.079
<v Speaker 1>end up having the firearm if you don't, others are

1058
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:51.480
<v Speaker 1>going to look upon that and be like, well, if

1059
01:00:51.559 --> 01:00:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I do that, I could then rob someone or do

1060
01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:56.559
<v Speaker 1>what I want to, and then that number is only

1061
01:00:56.599 --> 01:00:59.360
<v Speaker 1>going to grow. Yeah, so it's you damned if you do,

1062
01:00:59.360 --> 01:01:02.559
<v Speaker 1>you damned if you sort of situation, which is really unfortunate.

1063
01:01:02.920 --> 01:01:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I do. I do kind of think tho if

1064
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:08.639
<v Speaker 2>people had this guns and stuff more readily available, that

1065
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:10.760
<v Speaker 2>there would be more things.

1066
01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:12.880
<v Speaker 1>We should just get rid of guns entirely and just

1067
01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:13.800
<v Speaker 1>have nerf guns.

1068
01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, that would be fun. Could you imagine? Okay,

1069
01:01:18.400 --> 01:01:20.599
<v Speaker 2>so I have to give me all your money. I

1070
01:01:20.639 --> 01:01:24.960
<v Speaker 2>have like a canux fwag on my vehicle just caring

1071
01:01:24.960 --> 01:01:27.960
<v Speaker 2>for them, and someone the other day was like honking

1072
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:30.760
<v Speaker 2>at me and thumbs down, and can you imagine just

1073
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:31.960
<v Speaker 2>pulling on a NERF gun.

1074
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:35.159
<v Speaker 1>And be like, you know, just to drive by nerfing? Wow,

1075
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Like that.

1076
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:38.119
<v Speaker 2>Would be bringing hilarious. Like it didn't make me mad.

1077
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:40.119
<v Speaker 2>I was just kind of like, oh, Canucks go, but

1078
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:41.480
<v Speaker 2>it would just be like hilarios.

1079
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would be which Unfortunately, the Canucks are officially

1080
01:01:44.159 --> 01:01:44.960
<v Speaker 1>out of the playoffs.

1081
01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1082
01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.159
<v Speaker 1>We just prior to watching recording this, we watched Game

1083
01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:52.360
<v Speaker 1>seven and they were beaten by Edmonton Oilers three two.

1084
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Really too bad.

1085
01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:56.199
<v Speaker 1>It is too bad, but there's always next year, which

1086
01:01:56.320 --> 01:01:58.360
<v Speaker 1>next year we can potentially say the same thing, and

1087
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:01.639
<v Speaker 1>then after that, after that, but eventually Lee or like.

1088
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:03.360
<v Speaker 2>My grandma says, we'll get over it.

1089
01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:04.719
<v Speaker 1>We'll get over it.

1090
01:02:05.199 --> 01:02:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Like I'm like, I'm so sad, and she's like, we'll

1091
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:07.960
<v Speaker 2>get over it.

1092
01:02:08.199 --> 01:02:10.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like, oh my gosh, get over it.

1093
01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:12.239
<v Speaker 2>That's a good We'll get over It's true.

1094
01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:14.360
<v Speaker 1>We will, It's true, say la Vie.

1095
01:02:14.519 --> 01:02:18.159
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah, anyway, good job. That was a doozy.

1096
01:02:18.320 --> 01:02:20.199
<v Speaker 1>It was a doozy. Like I said, I could have

1097
01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:22.719
<v Speaker 1>done a two partter on yeah, but I really wanted

1098
01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:25.840
<v Speaker 1>to push through get it done in one. We appreciate

1099
01:02:25.880 --> 01:02:28.159
<v Speaker 1>you guys being here for the full episode on this

1100
01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:30.440
<v Speaker 1>hopefully enjoyed it. If you want to check out any

1101
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:32.639
<v Speaker 1>of the information on this podcast, whether it's more of

1102
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:36.840
<v Speaker 1>our socials or anything, Patreon links are down below, including

1103
01:02:36.840 --> 01:02:39.440
<v Speaker 1>YouTube all of it, all the good stuff, all the

1104
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.079
<v Speaker 1>good stuff, feel free to check us out and give

1105
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:42.760
<v Speaker 1>us a rating. We appreciate it and it really helps

1106
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:46.199
<v Speaker 1>the show. We are an indie podcast. We are produced

1107
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:49.199
<v Speaker 1>by us. No one owns this podcast. It's us in

1108
01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:52.719
<v Speaker 1>our tiny home. No one else live in our life,

1109
01:02:52.800 --> 01:02:54.719
<v Speaker 1>so we do not record in a big studio. We

1110
01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:58.440
<v Speaker 1>did not have a corporation overseeing us. We research, we write,

1111
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.559
<v Speaker 1>we record. It's just us and our dogs and chickens

1112
01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:03.480
<v Speaker 1>and our cat Kiwi.

1113
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:08.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you have them, yeah of course. So anyway, until

1114
01:03:08.679 --> 01:03:10.760
<v Speaker 2>uh until next week, until next

1115
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:12.400
<v Speaker 1>Week, stay wicked,
