Speaker 1: So this is Clippers fans. I'll release it singularly if
they don't blow it up by the time that it
goes out, But this will double as the Clippers offseason
look ahead because the Kauhi trade rumors are kind of
blowing that up anyway, which means I will run through
their vitals very quickly and I should throw them up
on screen for the kids at home. There we go.
So the Clippers, I have them. Their cap situation is
very fluid, so I have them at seven million over
the cap, which gives them plenty of room, twenty eight
and a half below the tax thirty seven plus below
the first apron. That's my fourteen player projection that includes
Woggler and every single option non guarantee being picked up.
It doesn't include free agent holds Er Mathrin, Collins, or
any of their second rounders. I also recognize that if
they wanted to, they could just have a crap ton
of cap space right now. I have them ticketed for
the non tax payer mid level exception. They are notable
unrestricted free agents, John Collins most notable. Bennettcmathrin is a
restricted free agent. Bradley Beal has a player option five
point six million. I'm assuming he's going to pick that up.
They have team options on Bodun Bogdanovich had sixteen million,
Brook Lopez at nine point two million, Nicola Putoom at
five point nine million, and Jordan Miller at two point
five million in Kobe Sanders at two point two million.
If they decline those team options on Kobe Sanders and
Jordan Miller, they would become restricted free agents. Notable extension
candidates the reason we're here to Borek Kawhi Leonard can
sign for a max of two years, one hundred and
twenty six point five million dollars. Darius Garland's also extension
eligible two years one hundred and ten. No other notable
extension candidates. Maybe Derek Jones Junior can sign a four
year extension. As of July ninth, and their first round
pick overview, which I think will give mister Tapoak some jolly's.
In twenty twenty seven, they owe their pick to Oklahoma City.
That's swap rights. They will end up getting the least
favorable of Denver's top five protected pick, their own pick
or Oklahoma City's pick. In twenty twenty eight, they owe
an unprotected pick to the Philadelphia seventy six ers and
in twenty twenty nine swap rights with Philly top three
protection for Philly on that and then they this summer.
I think they could trade up to four first not
including the actual Woggler pick, so least favorable picks in
twenty seven and twenty nine, and then outright picks in
twenty thirty one, twenty thirty three. My question to you,
mister Taporrek, what is this this dovetails with the Kawhi
Leonard traders. What is the Clippers's direction right now?
Speaker 2: I feel like we have to start this entire section
with are we ever going to get a ruling on aspiration?
Speaker 1: No, but it's like an astigation that never ends.
Speaker 2: This is insane if they allow I mean, we are,
you know, a couple of days away from free agency,
Kawhi Leonard trade rumors are bubbling up. I don't know
how any team in good conscience can trade for Kawhi
Leonard unless the NBA has already sent signals behind the
scenes that, you know, whatever comes of this investigation, Kawhi
will not be punished, will not you know, not be
for some miss games, like they could avoid his contract.
In theory, if they find him that he was, you know,
a partner, a co conspirator and this scheme. So I like,
that's that's my biggest question hanging over the timber or
over the Clippers right now. I was like, are we
going to get a resolution to this before the start
of free agency, before kawhi trade potentially happens, before they
have to commit to an extension for him? Like the
uncertainty there? You know, you bring up draft picks that
they could have or could trade. Are we sure? Are
we sure that they're gonna have those draft picks?
Speaker 1: We don't know any well, could you if you were
the Clippers, even if you did, like you just trade
those draft picks?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just trade Kawhi, Like, yeah, you're gonna avoid
his contract.
Speaker 1: We don't like, you trade those drafts, like maybe even
trade the twenty thirty one and twenty thirty three picks
so that the NBA, if they give them, it's the
ones that you swapped and weren't going to be high
high upside anyway. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, the whole thing is just beyond insane to me.
I mean, shout out to Pablotory of Meadowlark Media for
blowing the cover off of this and you know, the
the amount of work that he has done on this
story throughout the year is I mean, it literally won
him a Pulitzer Prize and it was a very well
deserved Pulitzer prize. And I know Adam Silver during the
finals was saying, like it's time to wrap this up.
We need some resolution here. So not only the Clippers
but the other twenty nine teams no kind of the
circumstances they're operating under. But again, like time is running
out between we're already seeing I mean Lamello and Giannis
and Julius Randall all got traded this week already, like
trades are already flying.
Speaker 1: Oh the thing we didn't bring up, by the way,
with the hornet stuff. Find it so bizarre. I mentioned
the Steve Off air that we're at a point where
these guards have no trade value, but they're still gonna
get max contracts. Apparently when you look at Trey, uh, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna go out on a limb and say, John Moran
probably not getting the max next time. But yeah, I mean, well, mellow,
you almost pot committed to it at this point.
Speaker 1: I yeah, did you take from what Adam Silver said,
or did you even see that Steve Bomber when you
look at what I think it's David Samberg was the
guy behind Aspiration, right, Steve Bombers and his I guess
people wrote a letter against him, while the NBA said, oh,
he was very cooperative and gives a ton of information. Basically,
did that lead you to believe, oh, maybe he said
or provided some documents or evidence that just really works
against the Clippers. But then you come from Adam Silver's
comments and it just sort of seems as if I, like,
I feel like they're waiting for the Pablo Tory like
finds out podcasts to go a few months without publishing
an update so that they can try and sweep this
under the rug. Because there's all these different installments. Yeah,
what has it been ten parts?
Speaker 2: I think twelve now, Like he he released one fairly recently,
in which because Joe Samberg like got sentenced to fourteen years.
Speaker 1: Oh Joe Samberg, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 2: Fourteen years in jail, and they had I believe someone
I don't remember what government agency he used to work for,
but it was the government agency that was responsible for
kind of bringing this getting him, you know, the court
case ready. So yeah, I don't think. I don't think
Pablo is letting this story go. If the NBA wants
to sweep it under the rug, best of luck to them.
But you know, I think my sense is that Pablo
believes there was circumvention, and it seems like he is
increasingly annoyed that the NBA is dragging their feet and
is going to continue making it more and more embarrassing
for the NBA until the NBA releases its investigation and
releases the punishment, at which point, you know, if, if
God forbid, if the Clippers get off scott free. I
just I would advise anyone who has not checked out
the series yet go check it out. Go in with
an open mind. It is very hard when you listen
to the totality of what Pablo has investigated, to believe
that the Clippers were completely innocent in all of this.
And so that's what I'm wondering, is like, A, does
the NBA punish them at all? And B if they do,
what is the extent of it? Do you know, is
Kauai affected at all? Do they lose draft picks? Do
their members of their front office get suspended for a
period of time, like, what, what are the parameters that
we're working under now that we're in this key off
season period.
Speaker 1: I don't. I honestly don't know what's gonna happen. The
longer it goes on, I feel as if it's less
likely anything seismic is gonna come of it. At one point,
if I was bracing for the Clippers are gonna lose
like four draft picks or something not like four first
round picks, And now I'm thinking this is gonna be
the Jallen Brunson level of tambring of a second round
pick or something along those lines. I don't, and maybe
that speaks to having no idea of which way it's
gonna go. What's up? Felaseakho. Do you want all of
our episodes AD free, then please support the show by
joining our Patreon or we have a YouTube membership program
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Is giddy with excitement at the fact I just know
that you've promised to do a standing backflip. If enough
people subscribe. So that's in addition to everything Dan mentioned
and all the other perks you're gonna want to sign
up for that. And now back to the show, do
you assign? So the cho rumors basically being he wouldn't
The Pistons are interested, but he wouldn't sign an extension
there if he got traded there. He is willing to
sign an extension in Toronto or San Antonio. So I did?
I think the first question is because or that just
came to me because of what you were saying. If
the Clippers are actually worried about this investigation or if
it's holding up what they're trying to do, is that
spilling over into how they're handling the Kuhi situation or
does it? It did seem like they were kind of
angling for a fresh, a fresher let's call it start
a twenty twenty seven anyway, And so maybe the extension
eligibility is what spearheading this all of a sudden, this
chatter because the idea that he would sign an extension
with any team, but the Clippers lead you to Okay, like,
are like real talks happening here? Because that's what it
sort of feels like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so Jake Fisher of the Signline was
the one who broke word of this to on Thursday,
and you know, he did say the Clippers are quote
undeniably determined to keep hold of Kawhi Leonards. So I
think if they have their way, they would keep him.
They would not trade him. He will sign an extension,
He'll play the rest of his career in LA. But
I think it's fair to wonder what does that extension
look like? Does he want a full max deal at
his age, given his injury history, and you know, just
kind of given the way that the NBA is trending,
like if you if you give him that deal, you've
already got one hundred million dollars probably committed to him
and Darius Garland in twenty twenty seven, whereas right now
Darius Garland under contract in twenty twenty seven, it was
a Jackson you have. You know, some of the rookies
still have like team options.
Speaker 3: But there will be on the books, yeah probably right, yeah,
but I mean their books are you know, Bogdan mcdonovich
is coming off the books potentially if they don't decline
the team option.
Speaker 2: Brook Lopez, Derek Jones Junior is in expiring, like Patombs
in expiring, Like they could have a completely clean slate.
Now would they want that? With Yannis presumably off the board? Now,
you know, like that this tends to happen where it's
you know, oh my god, Yannis and Jokic could be
free agents in twenty twenty seven. Everyone's gonna, you know,
save sixty million dollars a cap space and then all right,
well Yannis got traded and he's presumably going to sign
the extension. He's not likely to be available. Jokic, you know,
right after a very disappointing end of the season made
it very clear he's like, nah, I don't I don't
want to go anywhere. I'm good. I like Denver. So,
you know, I don't know. I haven't looked that far
ahead as to like who who is the key free
agent in twenty twenty seven If it's not those two guys,
but a lot will change in a year. I guess
Stephan Curry could be a free agent in twenty twenty
seven if you really want to sign him at that
point age thirty nine, Stephan Curry, I do it, Yeah,
I mean.
Speaker 1: So him Garland and Woggler. I think that's the defense
will be mint.
Speaker 2: Paul George has a player option that m back.
Speaker 1: Well, it's gonna ask would the Sixers give back even
the Clipper swap rights are one of those picks to
swap Paul George for Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 2: Probably I would think so, even.
Speaker 1: If you wouldn't sign an extenion, because I was wondering
what team I what. I guess him back in San
Antonio would be the better story, but him going back
to Toronto I would just be cooler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, either way. I mean if like San Antonio
obviously gives him a much better chance at winning a
title immediately than Toronto does. But yes, just the rule
of cool with also just a hilarious bit, Like I
know Jake said he'd be open to an extension, so
it's a little different. But like imagine if just every
time he gets to the final year of his contract,
Toronto's like, you know what, we'll do it, We'll do
you can go every want next year year, just play
for us the one year and let's see if we
could recreate this magic baby.
Speaker 1: Before moving on? Is there could you see is there
a team out there that you think would be a
good Quhi destination that would consider moving for him, even
if they have no guarantee it's more than a.
Speaker 2: Rental Portland's maybe if it's just like Jeremy Grant and
one of Shaden or Scoot.
Speaker 1: What about would Phoenix because they could probably make the
money work, right, They're busy paying all their players to
get back the eighth place.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I mean with Jalen Green, Dylan Brooks,
Grace and Allen, they could easily make the money work. Yeah,
Phoenix would be interesting. It's I mean, it's hard to
find like ooh, Houston challenge trade Kawhi for Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1: Oh wow wow? Who says no? The Clippers right?
Speaker 2: Yeh probably because I don't think Kevin Durant or if.
Speaker 1: You're worried about Kawhi leaving as Houston, you say, well,
we have Kevin Rant for the extra year. Sure would
the Could the Lakers do it if Lebron is gone?
Speaker 2: Just absorb him into cap space.
Speaker 1: Or partial cap space. They could send out like I
don't know what, they could send out picks to go
along with some of the contracts they have on the
books to help.
Speaker 2: Sure, But yeah, the Lakers are just in such a
weird spot this summer because it's like, this is your
best opportunity to retool around Luca, because you can do
like the little cap space trick right now with Reeves
where like you you know, earn forty million, but he's
on the books for twenty million right now. So like
I I don't think if your big splash is a
sky in his mid thirties, that's you know, yes, that's
great for now, but does not chance give you a
chance to meaningfully build around Luca? Oh, I have one,
though I don't know. I don't know if they have
the ammunition or what ammunition they are attaching Denver.
Speaker 1: Oh, so that would be yeah. I mean you could
get there I think with Christian Brown and Cam Johnson,
but you don't have any draft equity to.
Speaker 2: Include, right, Yeah, that's the problem.
Speaker 1: So you'd be looking at Aaron Gordon or Jamal Murray,
which I don't think the Clippers. You're getting more teams
involved because the Clippers have Woggler and Daris Garland on
the books already.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you probably have to do if you.
Speaker 1: Could do the Christian Brown contract aging like Milk is,
you could do. What about a sign in trade of
Peyton Watson, Cam Johnson and your twenty thirty three swap
for Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the Clippers, I don't know where,
like what proximity to the apron they would be after that,
they would have to be mindful of that because they
would be hard gapped.
Speaker 1: Sam, they can handle it. Yeah, I think they handle it.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I don't think you hang up.
Speaker 1: Denver probably says no unless they can find a team
take on Christian Brown because they're they're basically net salary neutral,
maybe saving a little bit. They actually no, Kui makes
more than Brown and Johnson together, so you need to
send out another contract to to begin with.
Speaker 2: But but speaking of challenge trades, Jalen Brown for Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1: The Celtics say no to that, right, What is going
on in Boston?
Speaker 2: I've checked.
Speaker 1: I've been checking my phone so much because I'm actually worried.
Not we're wondering if Jail Brown is gonna get traded
while we're on while we're on the horn.
Speaker 2: That's a fair concern. In Minnesota. Can they just assemble
all these dudes somehow?
Speaker 1: Actually? Why so? Well? Whysos has two things in the chat,
they're interesting, So okay, seek.
Speaker 2: That would be what though, I mean, you have to
be one of Jade auber Chat.
Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean, I know some people are lower
on chet, but maybe if the clip, like what if
it was Kawhi Leonard and all the picks for chet
Holm Grin, that would be hysterical. We're gonna keep giving
the OKAC Clippers draft.
Speaker 2: I get you could actually get to the money with Caruso,
Dort and Isaiah Joe. Or if you pick up the
team option A Hertenstein.
Speaker 1: Wait, Carusoe, Dort and Isaiah Joe get you to fifty? Wow?
Speaker 2: Close enough? I mean yeah, carus is at nineteen point six,
Dort's at seventeen point seven, Isaia Joe's eleven point three.
Speaker 1: What about Hartenstein, Dort and Isaiah Joe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's your way over.
Speaker 1: I just feel like you still kind of need out.
Well you have Casey Wallace, maybe you don't need Alex Caruso. Wow,
but that's like we know the Thunder, the Thunder trying
to still cut money. They're thirty million dollars into the
second apron So why sas said? I bet that team
was really wish they could trade Kwai right now, He's
like the missing piece. I had kind of wondered when
I saw the LaMelo trade go down. I was thinking, well,
this means Kawhi is not getting traded right because this package,
like if you would have folded it into the Randall deal,
you could have made it work. There'd be other parts
involved for Kawhi. But maybe that has more to do
with LaMelo's under contract. So we're okay doing this now.
And Kawhi if he doesn't want to sign an extension
or is an expiring deal, having no control over what
he's gonna do, You're not gonna want to give up
as much. You're not gonna want to go up your
twenty thirty three pick, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely because.
Speaker 1: Kawhi and Jane McDaniel's Nanthey Edwards would be oh Mansane Winbryo.
Speaker 2: What about again, I don't know how they're making the
money work. Necessarily, it would be tricky. But Indiana with
Nemhard top in wow Zubats right back, that would be
pretty funny. Maybe, yeah, just a souped up version of
what Detroit and Memphi say the draft.
Speaker 1: Do you know which team I would actually like, and
you could build the deal out in a bunch of
different ways. I just don't know which would be the
best way for both sides. Kawhida Orlando, We're on.
Speaker 2: My list too. Yeah, yeah, I mean if i've I
would not want to. If I'm the Clippers, I don't
know that I want to do it for Paolo, but
for Franz absolutely.
Speaker 1: If I'm the clip I might prefer to. If I'm
the Clippers, I want Palo over France. I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 2: You have you and I have been.
Speaker 1: Give give me Mmello, give me Palo, giving me all
there is. It's easier to make an analytical case for
LaMelo ball than it is for Palo bank Caro that much.
Speaker 2: I will give you, yes, for sure, but I will
I will give you. Paolo had a couple of games
in the playoffs where he he did look fantastic, like
the theory of Polo. If he hits that ceiling all
the time, he'll be phenomenal. And yes, you would absolutely
want him over Franz. But then he also as he's
like four for eighteen games that make you question why
you watch basketball in the first place.
Speaker 1: Knowing what you said about Gard or do you have
anything else on the court. Do you think why gets traded?
Speaker 2: I didn't as of forty eight hours ago. I mean now,
seeing how quickly we went from hey, LaMelo ball might
be traded to hey, Lamoo ball got traded, I think
it took about twelve hours. I don't know. I mean,
I'm guessing it only happens if the Clippers and he
and the Clippers can't agree on what a contract extension
might look like. But knowing the Clippers, that seems like
a realistic possibility considering what happened to Paul George a
couple of years ago, where they you know, they correctly
said we don't want to pay you a four year max,
and he said, that's great, I'm out of here. You know,
I think they have been proven wise that it was
unwise to give him a four year max at that
stage of his career. I think with Kawhi, yes, the
ceiling is what it is, but his age, his injury history,
I could understand them bocking a little bit at for
sure a full max contract extension. And I'm wondering, especially
with the Knicks having just won a title with Jalen Brunson,
given how much money that he bypassed to you know,
he signed the four one fifty six or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: He saved them a Dante Evincenzo per season. That's how
I framed it per season.
Speaker 2: And I wonder how I assumed that teams were going
to start using that against other stars. And clearly that
did not happen in Washington. But but I wonder if
the Clippers are going to Kawhi and saying, like, look, man,
this is the reality. You know, if you want us
to build a title contender around you in the twilight
of your career, we can't max you, or it's going
to be very difficult for us to build the title
contender if we max you. But if you take x
amount less, here are all the other doors that this
could open.
Speaker 1: What's a deal? Here? Is it two for like stet
two for one hundred, which would be the same he's
on hours. It need to be more like two.
Speaker 2: For eighty what KD did, like two for ninety? Right? Yeah, yeah,
I mean probably in that range, right, Like he's Kawhi's
turning thirty seven? Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Uncle Dennis says, no.
Speaker 2: Way you find another fake tree company.
Speaker 1: Oh, we didn't even mention Brooklyn just like they could
use their cap space then do Julius Randall and Terrence
Mann plus picks? Why why did they lottery reform? Man,
they're trying to get better.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that would be That's the one I'm against.
So that was also wrong. Kaui is only thirty four.
He's turning thirty five and four days. Happy birthday, Kwai.
I hope you get a fake tree.
Speaker 1: I just say Atlanta would be in on Kauai if
they're in on Jalen Brown or not? Really why would
be such like a pace disruptor for how they like
to play though?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean Jalen Brown is much more aligned
with their age wise, also an Atlanta native, so not
that that should factor into their decision, but just another
reason too. Yeah, I don't know if they're given a
significant assets for a quill like that's it sounds crazy
to say this, but like that is one of the
tricky things. Oh Detroit. Did we mention Detroit?
Speaker 1: We did as a team that he wouldn't sign an
extension with I would sure. I'm just what does it
take then to get him there? Like and just we're
going to roll the dice if it's Ron Holland and
you're making the money work because they could have a
ton of cap space, they could be over, they could
do all these things. I just say, Ron Holland is
the core asset going out? Are you rolling the dice
is Detroit?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if that's all it count like because you could
probably loop in the Isaiah Stewart trade. Yep, we're going
to expand that. So that fifteen million Duncan Robinson's at sixteen,
that's thirty one, Ron Holland's at nine, that's forty adding Karrislbert,
you're there.
Speaker 1: I would I mean, if that what if it's Ron
Holland in a first.
Speaker 2: I still think, I mean they're I would do. And
I like Ron Holland a lot. I think Ron Holland's
gonna be really good.
Speaker 1: But could you imagine Kawhi and as are just on
the same defense. I know Kawhi is not caps lock
Kawhi anymore.
Speaker 2: But right, yeah, like if I mean you could start
cade Kawhi a sar Jalen Duran.
Speaker 1: Oh we didn't mention how we not mentioned this team?
It's Jimmy Butler plus picks.
Speaker 2: Ooh Colden State, right, yep, mm hmm. Sounds like they
don't want to trade Jimmy, but sure, I mean, you know,
I yes, I think that should absolutely be under consideration
for them.
Speaker 1: What do you think this if they moved Kawhi or
even what you just said about guards, what does it
mean for Darius Garland? I think him and I'm not
worried about that. I don't know how deep into like
the Keaton Woggler fit you are. I'm not worried aout
him and Wogler playing together. I think they'll be fine.
But you said all that, you made a lot of
salient points about the way small guards are valued via trade,
and then we also know they're still kind of getting paid. Like,
where does Darius Garland fit in to the Clippers vision?
I think if they're trying to be I like Darius Garland,
I couldn't believe. I thought the Clippers that was a
home run trade for them. But now if you're thinking
about moving Kawhi or don't want to pay Kawai, I'm
just curious where Darius Garland fits into their vision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am too. I think it's a fair question
when obviously when they made the trade, they did not
know they were going to get the number five pick.
Theyd know they were going to get a pick at
all in this draft, and you know, if I guess
if they if they were going to get a pick,
it was gonna be one of the guards because it
had to be between five and nine, right right? So yeah,
or Ague, they could just taken Marro or whatever. But yeah,
like they now knowing that they have Wagler, I would
think that Garland, if they're willing to move Kawhi, I
would guess they would be willing to move Garland because
he's only got two years left on his deal too,
Like this is the time to move him because you
know you can move him next summer, but he's in
expiring and then you run into the same problem where
like is he trying to.
Speaker 1: Would you have done as the Clippers? Would you have
done the Lamello package for Darius Garland? Uh?
Speaker 2: Like the one first round pick?
Speaker 1: And nas reed, I mean, Darius Carn's making a little
bit more than LaMelo, so there's perhaps more other moving
parts involved. But who has more trade value right now? Darius?
Like I thought I would have told you LaMelo ball
with one hundred confidence twenty four hours ago. But as
you pointed out in our DMS when you called me fucko,
it might be a conversation. I mean Dars got you
James Hard and LaMelo Ball got you, nas reed, I
don't know what to make of that.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean he got you thirty six year old
James Harden and you had to attach a second round
pick to do it all right? Yeah? Uh yeah, I
Garland's got some injury stuff to worry about as well.
Like I, I think he should still have value, you know,
I yeah, I think like Minnesota, have they not gone
for LaMelo, they probably would have taken.
Speaker 1: I would love him in Memphis as opposed I don't know,
the defensive like women Boozer, but instead of Jaw he
would be a good fit of Memphis.
Speaker 2: I mean, I have concerns that Milwaukee does not seem
content with just taking their medicine for a couple of years.
Speaker 1: Like are they they were linked to do you sew
the do you saw them? They were interested in LaMelo?
Speaker 2: That was yeah, red flag. Yeah, like with the Mavericks,
if they were willing to move off for Kyrie.
Speaker 1: Well, they seem determined to surround Cooper Flag with his
little spacing as possible.
Speaker 2: So sure, sure, Houston, he would.
Speaker 1: Be excellent in Houston. Something like read what did that?
What was my Lamello package for them? Shanehu? That's too
much for Darius Garland?
Speaker 2: No, probably could you do Van Vliet and like Tari
East and an assigning trade?
Speaker 1: Oh that really juiced their off. But then you have
reached Shepherd and Darius gone on the same team. Yeah,
it's a little that gets atle Could they play together?
I don't know.
Speaker 2: Iman's just gonna swallow up everyone anyway, It's okay.
Speaker 1: Would he be would he be a Detroit guy? They're
linked to Kawhi? But wouldould be a Detroit guy? Or
is that too much? You're about to pay Duran Sar's
extension eligible?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I mean I could well. I mean I
don't think Durren's getting as much as we all thought
three months ago.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Pistons just traded one of their other
big men, so he might might be.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, who else? I mean, this is no, they're
too expensive already. I was gonna say utah, because they
seem like lukewarm on Keyante George as a point guard.
But that's just.
Speaker 1: That's salary structure is not gonna work there. No way
you think Washington wants a pair of Garland and Darius.
Speaker 2: They might Toronto.
Speaker 1: Maybe he doesn't really fit what they do defensively. Put
LaMelo wouldn't either, and they were interested in him. So yeah,
I mean i'd like it. Yeah, what about Okay, what
about San Antonio?
Speaker 2: Just all of the guards?
Speaker 1: Well, no, no Fox. So if you're attaching stuff to
Fox or maybe the clipp.
Speaker 2: I mean I would imagine a lot of Spurs fans
are just ready to watch Fox into the sun right now.
So I can't get anything.
Speaker 1: Spurs fans, you come talk to me. I'll convince you
to step off that leg.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's interesting. I I guess it depends on how
much you would have to attach.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that would be the because he has the
four year deals starting now right two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Clippers. You're still running into the same problem,
like you still have the same fit concerns with Fox
that you will with Garland.
Speaker 1: With Boggler, Uh yeah, I think that backcourt would have
a higher defensive ceiling together though in the Garland Bogler one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fox is a little bit bigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yo, we didn't mention Cleveland for Kawhi is there?
Would you consider a mobile for Kawhi? Like how oh wow?
Speaker 2: Probably not Mobley, right.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't do it. I'm just yeah, I don't know
where Cleveland. I don't know where Cleveland's at. I've seen
mobiley for Jalen Brown. That's the that's the one other
Jalen Brown trade is Well. I wasn't a fan of
the honest one, but for some reason, the MOBILEI one.
I'm like, alright, maybe I don't hate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Mobley just didn't take the leap that
we expected, and he's still so young that like it's
still easily could be coming. I'm not out on yeah, yeah,
I just the ages made me like you already traded
Darius Garland for a guy ten years older than him,
and I understand you did that. Yeah, Like you're you're
shortening your window that much, And like what message is
that sending to Donovan Mitchell as you're trying to get
convince him to sign an extension.
Speaker 1: Maybe he likes I mean, maybe he's got a thing
for older dudes. Just because he wanted James Harden for
Darius Garland. Dunne right, that was the pretense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean like it. It would make them.
It would probably increase their title chances next year, but
drastically shorten their window.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't. I that would be not practice. You
could maybe you need to finish other than the second
apron could be aggregating, but you could maybe do Jared Allen.
And you've got a whole bunch of middle Max Drews.
His money is in there, so you could probably get there.
That plus who else is making some money there, there's
Shrewder would be the preferable to sant Marril for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, they're just gonna sign and trade Jared Allen
for Lebron James.
Speaker 1: And you see that was so funny.
Speaker 2: I mean not the craziest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1: No, But like, what is the team sorts of worry
about Mobiley not having enough runway to develop offensively, So
let's throw Lebron and don Mitchell James Harden together and
that'll give Mobley a chance to.
Speaker 2: Well, then we don't care if Evan Mobley is going
to score eight points a game. We don't need to
score anymore than eight points a game.
Speaker 1: That's also very fair. I don't have any other good
Darius gar I don't think Portland would be into it.
Portland would be a fun Kawhi team, though, Yeah, I
think you brought them up for Kuhi. So I just
have another quick question over under Bennecmathryn seventeen million dollars
average annual value is next contract, you're gonna take the
over or the under?
Speaker 2: I would if he was an unrestricted free agent, I
would take the over. I I still lean over. I mean,
I've been somewhat surprised by the salaries being thrown out
so far, and mostly because I just don't know where
this gap space is coming from, Like who are you
bidding against? And the answer is Detroit right now. But
at some point Detroit will make their move, and then
you know, like, yeah, I guess the nets and Bowls
still have some money, and the Lakers hypothetically could but
also might not. But I think if you you know,
you run the risk of if you're if you go
much lower than that, you run the risk of the
Quentin Grime situation last year, where he just says, no,
I'm taking the qualifying offer and I'll become an unrestricted
free agent next year.
Speaker 1: If they're that concern about keeping flexibility open for twenty seven.
You're not going to extend k Why that might not
be the worst outcome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I wouldn't shock me if they just don't
extend him and then just say, you know, we can
revisit this. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think he's on the Clippers next year. I'm gonna seventeen.
I would probably still go over if you nudge that
up to like nineteen or twenty, because Kobe White got
three and seventy four and he's just better, right, Like,
he just better. I'll take under twenty. I'll go under twenty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Matherin is a really good scorer, like.
Speaker 1: Not it's a foul line for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like not super well rounded, you know, mediocre
three point shooter, not a great playmaker, like kind of
one dimensional in that regard offensively. So I don't know
what that archetype. Like, do you want Benedicto Matherrin as
your starter? He was for Indy, he was not for
the Clippers.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: What. I guess it really comes down to, like what
role do the Clippers envision him playing if they want
to keep him. Do they view him as a starter.
Do they view him as a bench player, because you're
not paying twenty plus million for a bench player, you
shouldn't be. But I think he could be a long
term starter, you know, seventeen eighteen, nineteen, twenty million dollars years.
It's like great value.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which I just obviously short term. He could start,
and you could bring Woggler off the bench. But if
it's Woggler Garland Mathern as a three doesn't really do
it for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'll be back with the Clippers. I'll
take under twenty million. There's the only other thing I
have on them is if they're keeping the band, if
it's Kawhi, Woggler, Garland they bring back like if they
John Collins the free They need a big man, is
what I'm getting at. It's sort of their biggest need
to be the Zubat's replacement. They have Isaiah Jackson, they
Haveneter Hauser, who he was injured to close last year.
I think they need like a higher end type of
big Could they be an interesting Porzingis team for Orlando's
looking to cut money. I didn't prepare you for this.
I'm gonna start thrown names to you fast and furious.
Wendell Carter Junior. Yeah, sure, Could they be an RW
three or Mitchell Robinson team in free agency.
Speaker 2: Just with the non tax Emily.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm assuming though, is that what? By the way,
do you think that's what they end up doing, is
working as an over the cap team.
Speaker 2: I would think so, just because they can't how much
can they create overall?
Speaker 1: I think over thirty right, just because of all those
team options. I don't think they could definitely get to twenty.
I mean, I guess the I don't have an update
of my thing since the Woggler salaries in there. So
let's say I think they could definitely get to over
twenty five if they really were over twenty, if they
wanted to. So, if you renounce everybody to get rid
of renounced John Collins to climb the team option on
Bogdan Bodanovitch to climb Brook Lopez' his team option, renounce Mathrin, Yeah,
you're probably. I mean, if you wanted to get rid
of so there's the Bradley Beal element you probably don't want.
If you got rid of Chris Dunn, you could creep
up on thirty. But that's the roster's empty. Otherwise it's
twenty something. So yeah, over the cap, I think so
to me would make the most sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like, maybe declined the option on macdonovic still
just to give themselves more breathing room under the first
apron if they need it. But yeah, I think over
the cap would be my guess there.
Speaker 1: So Mitchell Robinson or RW three as a placeholder, they
might be one of those guys that are willing to
if we assume the Clippers want flexibility next season, could
you do the one minus one. It's just a super
inflated salary for one of those guys, sort of like
what the Warriors did with Johnathan Kamingo this past year.
Speaker 2: I mean, if Mark Williams just got three for thirty eight,
like that to me sets kind of the expectation for
Robert Williams. I don't think he can ask for significantly
more than that kind of the same just you know,
nice good upside if they stay healthy. But the injury
concerns just so rampant that I think if he's willing
to sell for you know, ideally you get him for
like less than the full non tax emily and you
can split it between two guys.
Speaker 1: What's interesting is I think Robert Williams the third is
infinitely better than Mornin Williams.
Speaker 2: Sure. I mean, I'm just saying from a like an
archetype of oft injured big who you aren't going to
play a ton of minutes. You can't necessarily count on
him as you know, the thirty five minute game guy,
like you're going to keep him in the twenties most
likely still could start for you, but you just have
to be very careful with him.
Speaker 1: Do you think so Mark Williams got three for thirty eight, right,
that's the reporting is does that set the market for
Mitch Robinson too? Or do you view him as more valuable?
Speaker 2: Probably? I again, I just come back to like, where's
who's got money to spend? And you know, yes, Detroit
is doing something behind the scenes clearly, but like if
they're keeping Jalen Durham, they do not need to spend
fifteen million dollars on Mitchell Robinson as well. They've got
Paul Reid who played very well for them in the playoffs.
I think they're content with that. You know, like Chicago
just got Nick Claxton, Like why are you spending more?
You know?
Speaker 1: Also not only they got Nick Claxton, but for quote
unquote free.
Speaker 2: Right, right, and like, why you know you could have
had forty plus million in cap space. Why are we
spending it all on centers who are not going to
be part of your long term future?
Speaker 1: So I actually liked that trade for Chicago, but oh
I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but I'm saying, like if they add
Mitch Robinson too, then they're like they've spent yea flexibility
on to centers who are not going to fit long
term with them. And then Brooklyn, I guess if you
just want to stick it to the Knicks, you're just
mad that nick fever is taking.
Speaker 1: You want to reunite Mitchell Robinson and Julius Randalls, that
your offense could be in like the forty percentile. Yeah,
i've e yeah, why So says the Clippers could have
Yaka Pertle for free.
Speaker 2: That's that is a fair point. I'm sure the Raptors
would have. But yeah, I mean, that's that's probably the
Kauai deal, right.
Speaker 1: I'm assuming the Clippers are like, that's a Ingram situation,
salary situation, right, Sure, I hope he goes to if
they trade him. I want it to be Toronto so bad.
Speaker 2: It would be fun. I mean san Antonio would be
fun for a different reason, but yeah, like the.
Speaker 1: San Antonio would be poetic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just him and Wemby, it's like two basketball terminators.
Speaker 1: I don't I mean so Mitchell Robinson christops person. Guess
Roblin was a third. Uh, they have Brook Lopez if
they want to pick up the team option. I don't
really like like vouch your Mo Wagner for them, just
doesn't Andre Drummond, Zach Collins. I wonder if there's anyone, like,
is there someone fun that this team could out? Here's
because I have listed as just one of the things
that like maybe younger wings or just another higher end
with like just with Kauhi aging out, Could they do
the reverse we're talking about trading Kawhi. Could you do
the reverse and trade for Jalen Brown and pair him
with Kawhi?
Speaker 2: What are you sending out?
Speaker 1: Well, you have we established the pick situation. You just
build it around Garland as the primary money because he's
in the forties.
Speaker 2: And Garland's going to Boston.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they could use him, No, I mean they like
Garland and Derek Jones. I think get you just about there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, financially it would Uh yeah, I mean if you
if you're attaching four picks that aren't going to get
revoked by the NBA, that that leaves you with two
stud wings and nothing else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Fair and Woggler they're young. Yeah, although would Boston
insist on getting him for Brown? Yeah, that's yes, and
you just can't. They have so their third highest paid. Well,
if you opted in, but Boston's not, that's not a
team like, Boston's not doing that. You'd be looking at
a team that's like selling and you could opt in
these guys to their team options and get oh sure
that way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Boston, like if they're trading Jalen Brown, they
want something very good in return.
Speaker 1: You could. I think it would probably be super tight.
But what about Sibonis. You're not giving up Garland or
Kawhi and you're getting so bonis.
Speaker 2: I just don't know what that does for you.
Speaker 1: His contract runs, it runs the same as Darius Garlands,
right or is he have another year on it? He
has another year on it? Then never three years. He's
a free agent. Yeah in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, so yeah him and Garland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh no, yeah, they lie.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I mean, yeah, it would have to be Macdonovich,
Derek Jones, Brooklow, but like it, it's still it's tough
for them to get up to that money unless yeah,
I mean if it's a sign in trade with Collins
or with Mathern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, step King's all problematic players. I mean, not a
lot of defense. But Mamu is gonna be a free agent.
Speaker 2: He'd be interesting, sure, Yeah, I mean, like Jaques Landale
just as a cheap flyer because I don't think they
can really make a run like Walker Kessler. Walker Kessler
to me feels like he's gonna potentially fly under the radar.
I know, like Utah threw five one forty him and
he said no, and I think he might get less
now that's so I'm wondering. But like I would happily
pay him that amount of money. I think he's gonna
be very, very good and he just you know, no
one watched Utah for the last couple years, but seven
to two, great shot blocker, great rebounder, and can actually
shoot the three like that. He is the archetype that
every team wants. So I don't know how the Clippers
get there actually.
Speaker 1: Shoot the three. Seems like it's doing a little bit
too much lifting there. It's he was like tanking.
Speaker 2: He was six of eighth this year.
Speaker 1: Can he do it on the team that's not tanking?
And for more than eight attempts? Is how?
Speaker 2: It was eight attempts this year, seventy from three, Dan.
Speaker 1: What I mean Milwaukee is Miles Turner. That contract goes
out longer though, so they might.
Speaker 2: Not want that, right, Yeah, that's three years.
Speaker 1: It mean, be really funny if they went the cap
space route and then okay, so he just dumped Isaiah
Hartenstein with the team option and they sent a pick
or some along those lines.
Speaker 2: Incredible eaves Mace's cheap.
Speaker 1: I don't know what New Orleans wants for him, sure U,
I mean we're bottle of barrel here, But like Jay
Huff or Micah Potter, now that India has Zubats, one
of them might be available.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: I really don't mind the Christops play for them. I
hope we already mentioned him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's I guess if you're already dealing
with Kawhia's availability concerns, you also want to be dealing
with Chris Tops.
Speaker 1: That's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2: But for the price that I mean it that all
just depends on the price you're paying for him.
Speaker 1: What would it cost to get one. I don't think
it costs a lot to get Daniel Gafford, so that
wouldn't be a concern, but you at him. What about
Derek Lively?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that cost I have no idea same. I
mean probably not, especially like if teams are really valuing
these twenty seven twenty nine picks more, I guess they
twenty eight's gone already. They yeah, they swap there swaps
in those years. But oh Clippers, well, the Clippers they
still have like one of the three, but they can't
trade it because they Yeah. I was gonna like if
if they had access to any of those picks, then
maybe that alone might be enough for what do you
mean access to trading any of those?
Speaker 1: But they I mean they could trade picks though, like is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just down the road. I was thinking, like the
ones in the this three year window, they.
Speaker 1: Can't trade, Like you wouldn't do least favorable because they'd
swap with okay, see next year, Like that's not enough
to get in the door for Derek Lively with his
injury history.
Speaker 2: Probably not because Okay, I mean that swap is going
to be twenty nine or thirty.
Speaker 1: Mostly, Yeah, that is Yeah, that's not something I could Yeah, good,
good call, good call. And the twenty nine swaps with
Philly though, that might be a little bit more interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that one. So it would be
worst of Philly or Clippers, and then Dallas would have
the right to swap with them.
Speaker 1: Well does Dallia? Well can you even trade swat which
years is Dallas without picks because they don't control their
own pick again until twenty and thirty one.
Speaker 2: That's a fair point. Dallas Isallas, it's twenty nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Lakers, yep, so that's not happening.
Speaker 2: All right, twenty seven to Charlotte, So yeah, we're all right.
So yeah, it might have to be a twenty thirty
three or whatever they could do twenty thirty one.
Speaker 1: That would leave me believe they think that the investigation
is not going to play out in their favor and
they're just burning first.
Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, not the craziest strategy.
Speaker 1: Well, but also there's is there anything really that the
NBA can't like, we're just operating seven years into the future,
can't the NBA just say well, fuck you twenty thirty four,
twenty thirty five, like you don't have first round picks.
Speaker 2: Probably I would imagine that's exactly how it would go.
Speaker 1: Anything else on this team. Would you like to wrap
up with a prediction of do we think? Do we
already say I think Kawhi and Garland are both staying
with the Clippers, or I would at least frame it
as I think Jalen Brown's more likely to get traded
than Kawhi Leonard I.
Speaker 2: Would agree with that. Yeah, I think this is like
a you know what, teams are registering interests, and if
the Clippers decide to pivot, there will be a fairly
robust market for Kawhi. But yes, I don't think they
feel a burning desire to move him unless contract talks
go south in the next few days or weeks, or
whatever the case may be.
Speaker 1: This was great. Now you forget almost two hours. I
didn't realize we're going that long. Thank you so much
for all your time. As always, mister Tuporiki, we're able
just to tell our listeners they can find you and
all the fantastic work that you do.
Speaker 2: For sure you can find me. Blue Sky at B
T O P O R e. K Forbes and fan
Sided for general NBA coverage, Liberty Ballers for Sixers, silver
screening role for Lakers. Have been just churning out stuff
this week, and I have a very poorly time vacation
coming up on Sunday, but something tells me I will
still be writing at night through the vacation, so I'm
sure plenty coming out next week as this madness continues
to take over our lives. But thank you as always
for having me Dan always always fun and keep sending
these overvalued LaMelo trade proposals and my dams.
Speaker 1: Please, happy vacation, happy upcoming anniversary. I hope you were
able to get a break, somewhat of a break amid
the tumult that is to come, And thanks as always
for your time until next time. I think you ever
wrote the chant out to the one, the only, the indelible,
you know what, worth way more than he was traded
for LaMelo ball