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Speaker 1: What is up, fellows, Echo's I am Dan Valley coming

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at you with my certified fantabulous got the message about

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matching shirts for this podcast co host mister Grant Hughes,

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we are on too our Western Conference off season grades.

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People have asked about him here they are. We already

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did the Eastern Conference. If you go back, go back

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check those out if you haven't already. But Grant, how

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the heck? How the heck are you doing? As we

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get into a betal this is like it's gonna be over,

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Like everyone's waiting on these grades, Like for these heast

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is done? What's about to be done?

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Speaker 2: How are you feeling? I'm just happy to validate whatever

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accusations are out there about you and I's group think.

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By dressing the same way for a podcast, we've really

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gone to the next level. Uh. Although like this, this

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does really show how your lighting is different than mine

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because we have the exact same shirt on UH and

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yours looks darker green than mind does. And I think

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we just you know, it's a lighting thing. Great in

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any light, these these shirts look terrific. That's it's so weird.

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Speaker 1: I feel like my lighting looks washed out on the

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quality on this screen. I don't know what that's about,

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So your yours just pop in for me a little

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bit more than mine is popping. But the shirts look

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fantastic regardless of if you want to purchase one. One

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of the best ways to support the show right now,

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head over to our website. That's in the links to

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the podcast and YouTube description. I think we were sold

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out of hats for a moment.

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Speaker 2: I believe they might be back in stock.

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Speaker 1: I do not know, but go cop stuff and help

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support the show, and I will send you a magnet

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and sometimes personalized things. There are at least a few

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people who could attest to me trolling them or or

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I thank everybody, but I definitely troll at least a

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couple of people. So yeah, support the show that way,

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subscribe the whole nine. We do need to get into

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one last time, the criteria for the grades, because grant,

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guess what happened, HM, who got mad that their team

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got to see in the Eastern Conference. A C for

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us is average, and we're grading teams relative to the

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resources that are at their own disposable. So if we

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give the Blazers an A plus, but we give the

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Denver Nuggets an F minus minus. They're not being graded

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on the same scale. They have different expectations. Those are

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not the grades we're well actually might be grades for

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one of those teas that's so far off, But let's

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try to remember that when it comes to draft picks.

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Grant had the right idea going back initially, like we are.

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If we're grading them or weighing them heavily, it's because one,

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we have a strong opinion on the pick, but we're

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also trying to grade the level of difficulty. Were there

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other options on the board that made sense not? Was

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there just a no brainer pick in that moment? Did

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I miss anything?

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Speaker 2: What else do you have?

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Speaker 1: You had something I had last time and I already

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forgot what it was?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember. No, I just think I think

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you got it. It's like the prongs are, we're staying

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relative to the team's goals and expectations. If it's clear

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what they're trying to do, we will grade them based

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on how successfully or unsuccessfully they did the thing they're

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trying to do, whether that's tear it down, build it up,

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contend whatever, and the draft pick thing. I think the

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even simpler now the more I think about the draft

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pick thing is one. Yeah, like we definitely look at

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or hope hopefully look at situations where it's like, well,

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what other options were available that were really obvious insofar

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as that's even possible at this early stage, but generally

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for me, I'm just like kind of devaluing the draft

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as part of my off season. Great, until we get

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more information outside of like some extreme circumstances, you know, Like,

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it's just it just can't matter that much. We can't

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pretend to know a ton about how good these guys

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are going to be. So if it's about the direction,

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like oh, this pick doesn't fit with what you were

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trying to do Team X, it should have been this guy,

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then okay. But otherwise, like it's really hard to make

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ironclad cases that oh, this was the wrong pick because

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this other guy is definitely going to be better. Like

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we come on, we know we know enough to know.

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We don't know that.

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Speaker 1: The draft picks they factor in more than we do regrades.

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Like when we go back in a year and look

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at this, like that's when the draft picks might come

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more into play. Which is if you're mad and you

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think that you're gonna be right, come back for the

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regrades next year. And hey, maybe admit when you're wrong,

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because we tend to admit when when we are wrong.

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We were also grant and I have our super secret

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master sheet of all the transactions, but I will have

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them up on the screen for anyone watching on YouTube

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of just like the meat and potatoes of the offseason.

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I've had a short ennit because I won't do no

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team got two slides in the West. The Knicks fucked

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with us on the Eastern Conference. One there was no

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team and it was actually I can't remember which team

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it was, but I'm impressed that I kept it down

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to one side.

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Speaker 2: So shout out to me Philly. Last time, I thought, well,

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you for sure it was gonna be too.

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Speaker 1: I said this, Philly did a good job of like

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doing a lot but making it succynct where it wasn't

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these eighty draft second round draft trade where he had

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a track like they had, ohsoigadaro, but then they didn't.

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So shout out to Philly, but also shout out to

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me for keeping I'll let you know which team it

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is because I already forgot it, But shout out to

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me for keeping one of these teams to one slide.

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That's what we're here for. Grant, are you ready to

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get started?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it all right, we start with the Dallas Mavericks.

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I'm gonna go a little out of order here, just

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to make it harder than it needs to be, trying

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to work big to small here. So the two biggest

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acquisitions are are Naji Marshall and Clay Thompson. Marshall got

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three years and twenty seven million, which was just a

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part of the tax of the non tax payermid level.

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We'll talk about it, but that feels like a great deal.

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Klay Thompson got three years fifty million in assign and

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trade out going in that exchange, basically, to keep it simple,

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was Josh Green, a twenty five second and a twenty

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thirty one second Charlotte obviously landing Josh Green, Spencer Dinwiddie

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got a one year minimum deal. They traded Tim Hardaway

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Junior a twenty twenty five second and a twenty twenty

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eight second to the Pistons. Maybe there's actually there's a

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third twenty twenty eight second there. The first was via

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the heat the second one was coming via the Clippers

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or Charlotte it's the least favorable of those. For Quentin Grimes,

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that's not nothing traded at Aelhuckport, the number fifty eight

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selection in to the Knicks for Melvin AGENSA number fifty

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one signed Brandon Williams and Kessler Edwards to two ways.

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Did I miss anything there? Oh? This is You've got

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a note here. I think it's worth mentioning. Nico Harrison

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got and Jason Kidd both got multi year contract extensions.

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So we're not going to factor those into the grades

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necessarily because they were so long ago. June for Harrison

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and May for Kid.

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Speaker 1: Respect playing in June.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't the off season for them? That true? Yeah, not

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the case for everybody, but Dallas was still actively in

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the season at that point. Maybe I'll just start there

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kind of like the stability, kind of like the idea

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of like, hey, we were in the finals and if

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not for what we might look back on as a

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historically great Celtics team could have won a title. So

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that that's the lens I'm kind of looking at this

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offseason through, which is just how good Dallas was last year.

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And I don't know how you feel, but I kind

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of think they got better unless you really love Derek

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Jones Junior and think he's irreplaceable. Pretty hard act to

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pull off when you were as good as Dallas was

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last year and somewhat limited in your resources, and you

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still make you know, between Marshall and Thompson, at least

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one of those guys, maybe both, they're gonna be huge

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rotation slash starting level contributors. Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm trying to think of how you

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would be because I've seen some people have been skeptical

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of like will the MAVs defense sustain? And I get

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the concerns with like if you were to point polls

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in the offseason, it's they are taking a risk with

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Klay Thompson, who should fit like a glove on offense.

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But do you have the bodies And by that, I

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mean it's PJ Washington and one of the bigs and

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Gaffer Lively to defend at a high level when Klay,

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Luca and Kyrie Irving are out on the floor. And

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if Clay's coming under the guys that not only is

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he going to start, but like that's probably gonna be

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your closing setup. That would open up some questions. But

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I looked at just the optionality the roster has elsewhere

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and it's Dante Exham's still on the team and like

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he could, Like people have talked about a lot, well,

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they're they're losing Derek Jones Junior's rim, pressure and athleticism.

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That'll be a big thing. The MAVs played faster last year.

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They did a great job of doing that, especially when

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they're two stars were on the court. So yeah, they'll

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miss that element, but like Dante exam can handle the

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smaller advantage creators. And by the way, I think what

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might actually be one of the sneakiest moves of the

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off season is getting Quenton Grimes, who for the first

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two years of his career was doing that and draining

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threes and whatever happened last year, pecking order issues in

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New York, he dealt with injuries. I don't necessarily even know,

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like what went wrong for him with the Pistons before

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he ends up getting injured, and the fact that they

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gave him up in that deal, it makes you wonder, Okay,

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is there's something weird here? But I feel like that

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has the potential to make a huge addition, not to

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where oh he's playing more than nausea Marshall or or

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Klay Thompson. But like, if you're worried about the MAVs

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defense during dual star minutes, maybe Quentin Grimes becomes a

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stretch because do you want him defending wing positions if

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it comes to that, or can you maybe you don't

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even need to worry about that because you have Luca

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that you can kind of move around positionally there. So

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I said this about the MAVs, if we had to

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boil it down to this, they improved their offense without

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i think torpedoing the defense or even really conceding much

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of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right, And that really does just

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come down to Marshall and how closely he can approximate

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what Derek Jones Junior did on defense. And you know,

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it is a little you alluded to this. I'll just

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put a finer point on it. It's a little concerning

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that it's possible PJ. Washington will be like your only

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plus wing defender on the floor in minutes that really

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matter a lot. That's assuming you go Kyrie, Klay, Luca

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and then whatever center's out there. PJ Washington, like PJ

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Washington has to guard the best two or three I guess,

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and then if you also have which you know, if

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the MAVs play the teams they intend to play deep

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in the playoffs, like there will be times where it's

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going to be a struggle I think defensively, And now

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this isn't part of the grade, but banking on Derek

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Lively to just get better as a defender and be

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the type of guy that just because he's out there,

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your defense is fine, Like that's maybe, I mean, it's

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it's asking a lot for him to get to that level,

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but I really I think I generally agree Thompson is

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like potentially a massive addition offensively against certain lineups, especially

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in the playoffs, where it's just you just cannot treat

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him like teams treated Jones in Washington, like it's a

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total failure if he doesn't have maximum attention off the

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ball as a shooter. And so like you think you

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could make the case they got better on both ends,

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and just like to say otherwise is to say that

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Derek Jones Junior was just totally irreplaceable because.

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Speaker 1: Which is just by the way, he didn't really like

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turn on the defensive Jets until after they kind of

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remade the roster and it was apparent that, Okay, they

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were asking him to do less in a sense because

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you have PG Washington in addition to a different another

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big aside from Derek Lively to hold their own. And

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by the way, neither of us had mentioned this part

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of the reason. They might just be better on both ends.

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And so when it comes down to that, it's they

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clearly upgraded the offense. If you have what is your defense,

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it's because you're fucking massive. Yeah, this is huge. No, Like,

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you get the lineups pretty easily where lucas the shortest

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player on the court if you wanted.

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Speaker 2: To, right, yeah, I mean, and that look, Kyrie's gonna

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miss time probably, and so you really may see those

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bigger lineups like a fair amount. And then the defense

245
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should just if you're that big, it's it's pretty hard

246
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to be like below average defensively with all that size,

247
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Like you're gonna have blowby issues on the perimeter. But

248
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like if everybody on the back line is enormous or

249
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at least has long arm, Like, yeah, I think that's

250
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,279
a great point. This has to be this has to

251
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be a high grade, right, Like, I don't know, are

252
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we going into the A range for this. That's the

253
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other thing we should have mentioned is we're kind of

254
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gonna try to establish a consensus grade and like talk

255
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each other up or down depending on how far apart

256
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we are.

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Speaker 1: But I'm trying to see if, like what did like

258
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even getting Spencer, didn't we he at the one year minimum?

259
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Is I sometimes wonder, Okay, are there too many clubs

260
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in jason kids bag now to where we're not even

261
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gonna get to see jayde and Hardy I guess until

262
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the Western Conference finals again, when you just like pluck

263
00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:59,960
them out of the bag and throw them out there.

264
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But like just between Dante Exim and Quenton Grimes and

265
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Spencer Dinwiddie, like that whole like secondary rotation? Do you

266
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have too many options there? But that's that's such a

267
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great problem to have. I don't what would be the

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well I wanted to ask you this very quickly, brutally

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honest answer.

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Speaker 2: You're coaching the MAVs.

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Speaker 1: What is your You don't know the matchup, but you're

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trying to play off proof of matchup proofs yourselves. Who

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are you close? Who are you closing with?

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Speaker 2: Well? I mean this is just a Marshall or Clay question. Right,

275
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because I think, well, unless is the center a question

276
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to you, No, it's I mean it's it should be Lively.

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I agree, So it's Kyrie and Luca and Lively. That's one, two, three.

278
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I think Washington probably has to be out there. That's four.

279
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So I guess I'm making it a Luke, a Clay

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or a Marshall question.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I think I think that's what it comes

282
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down to. But I do think there might be the

283
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potential to, like Futzon fiddle with the Washington spot if

284
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he's not making because he went through those like up

285
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and downs from three specifically, And so could you consider

286
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closing with not Marshall and Clay or even like again,

287
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,639
depending on the matchup, like Naji Marshall and Quentin Grimes,

288
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to me, would make a lot of sense. This is fine,

289
00:13:06,279 --> 00:13:08,399
I'm talking up all this Quentin Grimes stuff. He's gonna

290
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end up probably not even playing.

291
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Speaker 2: I mean, for me, I think most nights I would

292
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probably go with Clay over Marshall if I'm just conceding

293
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,360
the other four spots, just because of the way that

294
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a shooter like that might force defenses to really pick

295
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,440
their poison. But like, how do we guard Luca because

296
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it you can only send so many bodies at him,

297
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and he's just gonna find the right guys. And if

298
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you have both Kyrie and Clay open as shooters, like man,

299
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,039
I don't know what you do as a defense, whereas

300
00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:42,679
Marshall might get the Derek Jones treatment, like he might

301
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,720
be someone you leave, and that's for an opponent, that

302
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,120
trade off is worth like, well, he's a better defender

303
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,159
than Clay, Like, well, just you know what I mean,

304
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Like if you're looking for a weak link, I'm only

305
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:55,600
thinking about I realized as I say this, the Mavericks

306
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,000
in like deep playoff series, because that's just I think

307
00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:00,840
how we should think of him. But I think Marshall

308
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,919
is the guy that an opponent would be like, Okay,

309
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,360
he's out there. Now you go at Clay on the

310
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,080
other end, obviously, So that's the weak link there, I think.

311
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,759
I guess. I think I'm just prioritizing the the way

312
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,320
that if Clay is still what he was offensively or

313
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240
anything close to it in this new role, like I

314
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,559
don't know how you guard this team. That's kind of

315
00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:21,240
where I would lean.

316
00:14:21,639 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 1: What have you made of though? And I'm actually surprised

317
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,759
that so many MAVs fans are not believe this, but

318
00:14:27,519 --> 00:14:31,840
sort of like a trumpeted this up, like Clay is

319
00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:34,639
like that third guy who can do stuff off the

320
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,600
dribble is a sentiment I don't feel entirely comfortable with.

321
00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:42,519
And I think that the lineups that he predominantly is

322
00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:44,480
going to be playing in, you're not going to need

323
00:14:44,559 --> 00:14:46,159
him to. But I guess if you get into kind

324
00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:48,919
of the one star combinations where Kyrie's off the floor

325
00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:51,240
of Luca's off the court, that might be a question.

326
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:54,120
But I didn't like when I look at this team,

327
00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:56,039
that's still something I would have a question of. Is

328
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,960
it is it Jayden Hardy? Is it just defaulting the spencer?

329
00:14:59,000 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 2: Do me?

330
00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:01,440
Speaker 1: I did he? Honestly, I didn't even factor Klay Thompson

331
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,799
into just like the list of potential solves.

332
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 2: I think if you view Klay Thompson as someone that

333
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,759
is going to be a third creator, like for himself

334
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,159
or for anyone else, you did not watch him last year,

335
00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:17,080
Like I just think when he dribbled the ball, I

336
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,519
don't you know if you have an expected value on

337
00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:22,840
each like touch or possession, it plummeted every time he dribbled,

338
00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:25,559
I just his shot selection gets worse. If he's dribbling.

339
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,120
He's just can't get by anybody. So I think, as

340
00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:32,440
someone like it's hard to think of someone who will

341
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,759
benefit more if he accepts it from a reduced role

342
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,879
that just asks him to do the things he's still

343
00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:41,120
great at, because there are an increasing number of things

344
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:43,440
that he's not good at anymore. And I think if

345
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,759
you from the MAVs perspective, like, there are risks for

346
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,200
sure in signing him, even though the numbers not huge,

347
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,360
but like the upside is you get him to just

348
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,919
do the things he's still special at and and one

349
00:15:55,919 --> 00:15:59,080
of those is not being creator that's not in the

350
00:15:59,120 --> 00:15:59,840
bag anymore.

351
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,799
Speaker 1: He could maybe make like some of those really like

352
00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:04,639
quick pass, but I just didn't feel like he was

353
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:05,480
a solve for that.

354
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,559
Speaker 2: This is all to say, though you're gonna have to

355
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,200
I think there.

356
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: Are maybe two teams in the league that could argue

357
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,679
they had as good over better off seasons than the Mass.

358
00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:15,320
One of them is Philly. We already talked about them.

359
00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:16,879
One of them we haven't talked about yet. So you're

360
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,440
gonna need to talk me down from an A plus

361
00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:20,399
is the grade that I had.

362
00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just gonna go A because I don't

363
00:16:22,759 --> 00:16:24,720
haven't really thought about the A plus range.

364
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:25,919
Speaker 1: What did they do wrong?

365
00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Nothing nothing.

366
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:30,919
Speaker 1: I guess you could quiple over the price of Clay,

367
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:33,519
like for per year, But I'm kind of just like

368
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,000
he turned out more like the mass got him for

369
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,240
less than the Lakers were offering him. Like that's even

370
00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,399
and just and you already kind of said this. But

371
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,879
the idea that they made it to the NBA Finals,

372
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,480
and the question out of that was are they gonna

373
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,320
be able to finagle the books to keep Derek Jones junior?

374
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:53,440
And they ended up like positioning themselves to get Clay

375
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,320
Naji Marshall and Quentin Grimes. That's wild.

376
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I'm I. I think I got

377
00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:02,320
to go there with you. I mean I would have

378
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,160
gone A, but I just that's because I don't really

379
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,960
think too hard about the A plus. Yeah, getting getting Yeah,

380
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,680
every move is at least positive. It's just a question

381
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,839
of how positive it is. And I think when you

382
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,119
view their whole offseason through the lens of just this

383
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,039
was a team in the finals, and how rare it

384
00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,440
is for a team in the finals to get like

385
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,640
pretty consequentially better, at least on paper. That's pretty hard,

386
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,559
so let's give him an A plus. Let's start it

387
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:29,359
out with a bang here nice.

388
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,920
Speaker 1: Next team up is my Houston Rockets. Very easy transaction

389
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,000
sheet from them, which is why if you're watching on screen,

390
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,519
Jalen Green would like to know why he hasn't gotten

391
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:42,559
an extension yet. Neither is Alper and Shangun. Those are

392
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:45,240
the notes, but the moves drafted read Shepherd at number three.

393
00:17:45,599 --> 00:17:47,319
Anyone who listened to this podcast knows that we think

394
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,000
he's gonna be one of the worst NBA players of

395
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,799
all time. Traded number forty four, which became pel Larson

396
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,519
for AJ Griffin actually liked that move. Picked up Jeff

397
00:17:55,519 --> 00:17:58,160
Green's eight million dollar team option, picked up Jay Shawn

398
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,400
Tates seven point six million dollar team option. Re signed

399
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,759
to Aaron Holiday for two years and nine point six million.

400
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,079
It's the bi annual exception. The team option is on

401
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,839
year two, and that's really just just it.

402
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:11,559
Speaker 2: No other note.

403
00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:13,279
Speaker 1: No, Steven Adams, who is yet to play a game

404
00:18:13,319 --> 00:18:15,799
for them, will be extensional as well as October first.

405
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,599
I would guess that they do not extend him because

406
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,400
they're clearly have this twenty twenty five cap space plan.

407
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,440
They also made that I did not include it on screen,

408
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:28,880
so that's a shame on me here. But that transaction

409
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:33,480
with the Brooklyn Nets where they basically shorted heavily shorted

410
00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:36,559
the future of the Phoenix Sun. So what they ended

411
00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:40,480
up doing was they got a twenty twenty five first rounder.

412
00:18:40,519 --> 00:18:43,200
It's gonna be the lesser of the Rockets, Thunder or

413
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:47,160
Suns pick. They got the Suns twenty twenty seven first,

414
00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:49,960
they got a twenty twenty nine first which is the

415
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,880
more favorable of the Suns and MAVs. And then they

416
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,079
got a twenty twenty nine swap, which will be the

417
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,200
less favorable of the Suns or MAVs. So the Rockets

418
00:18:58,279 --> 00:19:00,599
got all that from the Nets in extreme for giving

419
00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:03,880
the Nets back there twenty twenty five first round pick,

420
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,160
which was a swap, and then they're twenty twenty six

421
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,839
first round pick, which, of course, as we already noted,

422
00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:12,960
that opened the door for Brooklyn to rebuild. I want

423
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,400
to save that for last week because I think that

424
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,119
that is that tying into the non extensions that we

425
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,920
just know we're not going to see, is sort of

426
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,599
the crux of their offseason. Is there anything else that

427
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,279
just sort of stands out? Like you, I think anyone

428
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:26,359
who hasn't listened to the podcast before might think we're actually

429
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:28,880
low on Reed Shepherd. I think that was a home

430
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,240
run pick by them. So was there anything about the

431
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:34,599
offseason before we get into like the picks of it all?

432
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,680
Speaker 2: No, I think, yeah, Reach Shepherd. Obviously we both agree

433
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,799
that was the best player on the board there. That

434
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,319
might have been true if we were talking about the

435
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,799
number one pick. So but again, this is all about

436
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,880
that trade that sort of swapped out equity in the

437
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,039
nets for equity in the suns, and then we can

438
00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:56,279
talk about the extent I may maybe maybe this will

439
00:19:56,279 --> 00:19:58,920
be short, maybe it won't, depend on your opinion. I

440
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,240
am fully on board with not extending Green or Sengoon early.

441
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,160
I just like I've been saying that all off season.

442
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,200
I'm just kind of more and more of the mind

443
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,920
that you need to make these guys play these things

444
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,640
out before you commit. You still have all this leverage.

445
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,279
I don't know why I'm suddenly I feel like I'm

446
00:20:14,319 --> 00:20:16,680
on the side of big business against labor or something.

447
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,400
But like, I just think you have the restrictive free

448
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,480
agency is a is a real weapon like as an

449
00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:26,480
just from a front offices perspective, and you should use it,

450
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:30,759
Like I just I don't understand the rush to Now

451
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,599
if you think Shenguon is just like this is going

452
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,319
to be our offensive folkrum for the next seven to

453
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,039
ten years, then okay, yeah, throw the money out of

454
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,960
my guess, but like, well, why you can still do

455
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,960
it later. You can still do it later, So I

456
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,079
just think that's a positive. Not extending those guys to

457
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,599
me makes their grade better in my mind. But the

458
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,200
picks are really where the rubber meets the road on this.

459
00:20:51,759 --> 00:20:54,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that deal I think is it's probably easy. Well,

460
00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:57,559
it's easier to justify for them because in theory they

461
00:20:57,559 --> 00:20:59,680
got more stuff. It's like you traded control of two

462
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,400
first for control of four basically three of which I think,

463
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,319
like just are gonna belong to the Suns in some form,

464
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,039
So like or I guess at least two?

465
00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:13,319
Speaker 2: No, is it three? Well, it's at least go ahead.

466
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,119
I was just gonna ask, like the twenty twenty five

467
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:20,279
first from Brooklyn has the potent like are there were

468
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:23,279
there protections on that or was that an unprotected it

469
00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:26,359
was unprotected. So the Rockets might have just traded the

470
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,880
first pick in the draft, like, right, that's that that

471
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,839
might be what happened, Like, so that gives me real

472
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,920
pause if it ends up being a S Bailey Cooper

473
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,599
flag whatever, And that would have assumed that Brooklyn was

474
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,640
the worst team in the league or you know, bad

475
00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:41,000
enough to have a fourteen percent chance of that pick

476
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:45,119
being number one, Like that's that's scary. That's that you

477
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,920
could regret that, right, Like we have to at least

478
00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,160
factor like getting four first round assets for two it's like, okay,

479
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,200
no brainer. But if one of those might have been

480
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,359
Cooper flag, then this is at least, you know, obviously,

481
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,119
that's why we're doing it. Worth a discussion.

482
00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think people will point out and rightfully

483
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,640
so that would the Nets be as entrenched in the

484
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,799
Cooper flags. Maybe not if this trade doesn't happen. My

485
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,640
answer is maybe not. But I also think that the

486
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,680
Knicks offered enough to where the mchal Bridges trade was

487
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,799
happening anyway. I also just believe that like what was

488
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,799
the path to Brooklyn getting better this coming season? Like

489
00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:24,799
they just didn't like the Donovan Mitchell card that everyone

490
00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:26,680
was kind of clinging on to that came off the

491
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,480
board once he extended with with Cleveland. So there there.

492
00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:33,960
My point would be, there is a scenario where you

493
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,599
could have given up and it doesn't We don't have

494
00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:37,000
to view it through the lens of Cooper flag. Like

495
00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:38,920
you could have just given up a top four pick

496
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,200
that was always going to be a top four pick.

497
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,599
Speaker 2: Or at least the top six seven, like, because how

498
00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:45,880
good could Brooklyn get? Really like the X what do

499
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,920
you think the expected value of that? The average value

500
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,720
of that pick would have been, Like even if you

501
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:53,920
say Bridges is still on the team and like Brooklyn's

502
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,880
trying to add talent via trade or something at the

503
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,839
det like, it's still a top ten pick probably.

504
00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say top eight, yeah, at least. And

505
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,440
now the counterpoint to all of that is the Rockets

506
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:07,559
just have so many guys like there, I'm worried that

507
00:23:07,599 --> 00:23:10,359
Reed Shepherd isn't gonna play enough next year, and so

508
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,799
now you want to throw another whatever top prospect into

509
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:17,839
the equation. And so I like the gamble of I

510
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,599
liked the trade. I just thought that people were kind

511
00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:21,480
of running it off like, oh, like yeah, the you

512
00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:23,240
don't even need to consider what the NETS pick would

513
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:25,640
have been, because it's just entirely different, and it's okay,

514
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,160
it's possible, but I also think there's that separate outcome

515
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,680
on the table as well. But now you've kicked this

516
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,200
down the road and you very specifically tether your future

517
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,519
to like one team's draft in the Phoenix Suns, and

518
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,680
that's not a bad idea because you start to look

519
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,880
at it and it's they're not gonna be okay, Like, okay,

520
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,200
maybe the twenty twenty seven first like is sort of

521
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,359
somewhere in the middle of like, if you what you

522
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,839
just did with the Nets, you now might have the

523
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,720
ability to do with the Suns in a year or two.

524
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,920
And does that get you? Devin Booker, So I kind

525
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,960
of like that scaling it ahead forward. And it's just

526
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,160
because the NETS pick specifically twousyd and twenty five, like

527
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,319
that swop was gonna have to convey this year, Like

528
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,680
now you have these other additional goodies to put in,

529
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,160
like trade packages, because you kept yourself lean in terms

530
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,039
of you don't have a ton of guaranteed money on

531
00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:12,960
the books with if you decline Fred van Vliet's team option,

532
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:14,759
like you get back to sixty plus million dollars in

533
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:17,559
cap space for you prepaired to renounce Albert and Shangoun

534
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,119
and Jail and Green or even just one of them. Like,

535
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,400
so you have a like cap flexibility, but you have

536
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,000
even more trade flexibility because you just have more assets

537
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:27,440
to throw into deals. And they might be a team

538
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,200
where maybe it happens this season, because like that's why

539
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,559
you pick up Jeff Green's team option. That's why I mean,

540
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,440
Jay Shaante you pick up that team option. Anyway, So

541
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,759
it's like you have all these movable there's no bad

542
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:38,920
deal on there, but there's just not a bad deal

543
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,599
on their books right now. So I like everything they did,

544
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,160
and I also think just based off what happened last season,

545
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:48,039
you shouldn't. You didn't need to do anything seismic, Like

546
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,119
let's let this marinate. Let's see if to eason you

547
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,440
get healthy. Let's see what I'm and Thompson looks like

548
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,160
for a full year. Can Jalen Green start off the season,

549
00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:59,119
you know, before March first, in a good fashion? And

550
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,400
so they need more information on this roster because all

551
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,599
these a ton of these guys developed. Mary Smith Junior

552
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,000
had a hell of a year. No one talks about

553
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:07,319
them anymore because they just have so many dudes. And

554
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,720
so this is a season to where my whole thing

555
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:13,440
is progress isn't linear, and I could see them being worse.

556
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,759
They might have more talent, or their talent on balance

557
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:18,039
should be better. I could see them being worse because

558
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:20,119
the West is harder and they're trying to gain more

559
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,240
information on players. But they are just built to maneuver,

560
00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:28,160
like in all these different ways, and there's value in that.

561
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,680
And I think, you know, if anyone wanted them to

562
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,400
be more aggressive this summer, like I kind of understand it,

563
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,799
but like who it wasn't going to happen via free agencies,

564
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,319
Like what is the trade target that you really wish

565
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,440
that they were going? After that was mentioned, there isn't.

566
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 2: No Yeah they Yeah, I think they have enough guys.

567
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,480
They have enough like cracks at you know, maybe two

568
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:52,240
of you just go down the list Green, Shanngoon, Smith, Thompson,

569
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:55,160
now Shepherd, Like they only need a couple of those

570
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,920
guys to become all star level players and like some

571
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,400
of them are close as it is, so I think

572
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,359
kind of it's not quite like keeping the powder dry

573
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,759
or like not met I think the general principle of like,

574
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:08,880
let's see what these guys have makes sense to me.

575
00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:11,759
It just comes down to I think the way I

576
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,920
am now thinking about the trade with Brooklyn is you

577
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,559
probably gave up the highest, probably gave up the highest

578
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:22,039
ceiling asset, but you really did set your like average

579
00:26:22,079 --> 00:26:26,400
expected return higher because you just have more first round

580
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,039
equity than you did before. And I guess maybe the

581
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,279
grade needs to come down to, like how much you

582
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,799
think Houston should have been thinking like grand slam versus like,

583
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:40,400
let's hit three doubles off the wall like type of thing,

584
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,599
you know what I mean, Like, cause that twenty five,

585
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,839
then we're just circling back. If that twenty five first

586
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,119
from Brooklyn winds up being the number one Pickland, man,

587
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:50,039
you know that, then that's a conversation for the regrade.

588
00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:51,759
But as it stands now, I do think there's a

589
00:26:51,759 --> 00:26:54,680
lot of logic in let's just have more first round

590
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,839
picks to go with all of our young prospects, and

591
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:59,680
we'll just let this sort of happen and see and

592
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,160
see what we have in a year, in two years,

593
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,920
and like, really we're down through the rest of the

594
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,920
decade because of how far some of those Phoenix picks

595
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:06,319
go out.

596
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I think it's kind of just like in

597
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,319
a vacuum. Would you rather have control of the Sun's

598
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,160
first round picks in twenty seven and twenty nine or

599
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,680
control of the Nets picks with McHale bridges in twenty

600
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,359
five and twenty six. I think that's the question Houston

601
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:25,559
asked itself, And they got other stuff on top top

602
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:27,720
of that, by the way, like two other controlled first

603
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,319
And I think it's reasonable to say, like I would

604
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,079
rather have there's probably more of a like there's the

605
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,359
Nets like have more of an obvious floor. But like

606
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,000
you were mentioning a Grand Slam, I guess Cooper Flag

607
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,039
is the Grand Slam. But that's a fourteen percent chance.

608
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:43,799
Let's say the Nets have a bottom four record of

609
00:27:43,799 --> 00:27:46,960
getting him, whereas let's view it through the lens of

610
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:50,960
Devin Booker or the next disgruntled superstar. There's a higher

611
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,799
percentage chance now that you're getting that player, who, by

612
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:56,599
the way, immediately fits better with your timeline because they're

613
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,720
already established.

614
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I think this has to be another

615
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:02,480
grade in the A range, don't you. I mean, I.

616
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: Honestly didn't know what to do because I think that

617
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:05,880
there needs to be like I can't give them an

618
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,799
A plus just because like there's still the uncertainty of

619
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:12,279
what those nets picks turn into. And if you're gonna say, well,

620
00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:14,440
that's what the phoenix picture before, like there's uncertainty to

621
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,720
those two, Like that's the entire point of this. So like,

622
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:19,559
is it an a is it an A minus? You

623
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,200
have to take this one because you went with me

624
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,400
on Dallas.

625
00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:25,759
Speaker 2: My thoughts A minus. I think if we were gonna,

626
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,839
if we were gonna go against our own advice and

627
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,000
just overrate the draft picking getting Shepherd at three might

628
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:33,319
make it worth a flat A, but a minus just

629
00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:36,400
because one we can't go crazy with the pick. Two.

630
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:39,960
I think we agree that the trade with Brooklyn is

631
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,599
a net positive, but like there's some downside possibility. And

632
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,799
then I think we both agree that the not extending

633
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:50,519
Shangoon or Green smart, but like also maybe you piss

634
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:54,880
them off. There's like just enough like low low probability

635
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,920
downside to all of those things that we like that

636
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,799
I feel like a minus reflects.

637
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:00,519
Speaker 1: That I can't It's funny that I just can't bring

638
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,079
myself to see the downside and the restricted free agency stuff. Now,

639
00:29:03,079 --> 00:29:05,960
if you don't think restricted free agency exists should exist,

640
00:29:06,279 --> 00:29:07,960
that's a different discussion the fact that it does. I

641
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,440
think the Rockets are playing it. Watch them extend them

642
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,359
like immediately. I know you record, but the Rockets are

643
00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:15,839
playing it perfectly. If if I had to quibble over

644
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,680
why go at the A minus, I'm just worried like

645
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,680
you brought back Aaron Holiday, which again is totally fine.

646
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,599
I want to make that clear, but I want to

647
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,880
see you get to a pathway where like re Jeppard's

648
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,519
playing a ton of minutes and gets to work on

649
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:31,079
the ball, or ditto for Aman Thompson who showed he

650
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:32,960
could do a bunch off the ball, and it's do you.

651
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:35,319
I don't think emy Udoka will fall into this trap.

652
00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:37,480
But is it just like, are you gonna feel pressure

653
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:40,480
because you have between twelve and fifteen guys on the

654
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:42,839
roster that need NBA minutes? Are you gonna feel pressure

655
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,920
to like not evenly distribute, but give playing time to everyone?

656
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,680
And I would argue that it's like they don't need

657
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,839
to make a consolidation trade now, but there's also just

658
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,480
they have too many guys and they didn't necessarily clear

659
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,960
like Jeff Green whatever, like you want that a salary filler,

660
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,799
you don't need to play him. And again it's not

661
00:29:58,079 --> 00:30:00,480
super political when it comes to Aaron Holliday, but it's

662
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:03,240
just like you have even jay Sean Tait is what

663
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:05,000
is his spot long term on this roster, but that's

664
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,279
someone who should probably play.

665
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:08,759
Speaker 2: So I mean he's not on here because I didn't

666
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:10,240
have anything to do with the off season, But Tarry

667
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Easton's gonna need minutes like that's and then who's that

668
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,319
coming at the expensive? I think I think ultimately that

669
00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:18,079
camp factor too, because then are we gonna just like

670
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,960
give guys give teams worst grades because they managed to

671
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,680
accumulate too many good players, Like that feels a little bit,

672
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,200
it feels a little bit wrong.

673
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: I don't know why are we going with an A minus.

674
00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:31,039
Speaker 2: I think just because of the minor downsides, Like I said,

675
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,559
of all three of the moves that we generally like, the.

676
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,119
Speaker 1: Only the downside. There is no downside with Jellen Green,

677
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,720
just because this cap hold is so massive anyway that

678
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:42,079
it's sort of like it maybe there's the downside with

679
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,880
Shane Ku where it's like, well it took you guys

680
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,039
way too long to realize how good I am, and

681
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:48,480
now you won't pay me. And I'm still just not

682
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:50,519
sold that they view him as the folk rum of

683
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,880
the future. I'm not either too fantastic and he might

684
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,880
be an All Star next year. But so I guess

685
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,799
that's fair. Like it feels like if there is any

686
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,880
downside to what they did, it would be Is there

687
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,799
any weird relations with Albert Check? Yeah?

688
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,359
Speaker 2: Maybe? And look that's I mean, it's still an A minus.

689
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:05,880
Don't don't.

690
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,519
Speaker 1: Someone's gonna be mad. And if there's a rock Stan

691
00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:09,640
out there that's man in the commentsation, please please be

692
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,559
mad that your team got in got an A minus.

693
00:31:11,759 --> 00:31:13,440
I beg you all right?

694
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 2: That takes us to the Memphis Grizzlies and I will.

695
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:20,640
I think they're mine. I'll take them. I'm high on

696
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,839
the Grizzlies. So drafted Zach Eatie at number nine. Looked

697
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:27,279
phenomenal in Summer League for one game and then didn't

698
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:31,279
play anymore, but still maybe the starter here. Drafted Jalen

699
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:34,359
Wells at number thirty nine, traded fifty seven, which is

700
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,880
Uluric Kam chief for cam Spencer, signed a two way

701
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,640
with Spencer. Traded Zire Williams. The Zire Williams era is

702
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,279
over again. No longer can we go into each season

703
00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:44,240
saying what if he pops?

704
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: I know you didn't listen to the Grizzlies one yet,

705
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,160
But Keith Parris said his nicest thing he ever said

706
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:52,240
about Zion Williams on and he said they gave up

707
00:31:52,279 --> 00:31:54,240
someone who might be an NBA player in a couple

708
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,079
of years. Like they just had the nicest thing he's

709
00:31:57,079 --> 00:31:58,799
ever said to us about ZAIONI.

710
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: I remember asking Keith about are meant maybe mentioned Nxire

711
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,720
Williams last offseason look ahead and he was like already

712
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,759
then he was like trying to talk me down. So

713
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,200
that turned out to be right. So traded Williams and

714
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,359
Dallas Is twenty thirty second to the Nets for Mamadi Diakite,

715
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,720
who was with Lukenard one year nine point three million

716
00:32:16,759 --> 00:32:19,799
after having his fourteen point eight million dollar team option declined.

717
00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,079
So saved a little bit there and sent with incentives

718
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:23,720
I can get up to ten point seven. Signed Jay

719
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:26,599
Huff to a two way some big and unfortunate later

720
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,160
breaking news, Gigi Jackson underwent right foot surgery. He was

721
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,079
injured in the off season. How long is he out.

722
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:33,359
Is it going to be the season or is it

723
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,680
going to be like just a chunk of it. I

724
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,119
don't think it's going to be the season.

725
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,559
Speaker 1: But a broken foot that needs surgery, I think that

726
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,119
he's gonna.

727
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:42,279
Speaker 2: The dreaded fifth metatarsal. I don't know if they said

728
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:44,160
if that's a Jones fracture or not, but that used

729
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,079
to always be like, oh my god, that makes it worse.

730
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:49,720
Last thing to note here, they still have the mid

731
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,039
level exception, which now can be used as a trade

732
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:55,799
exception effectively, and the bi annual project and they're projected

733
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:59,359
to two point six million below the tax. That seems deliberate.

734
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,839
So Dan, what are we doing with the Grizzlies here

735
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,240
who used to be a fifty win team and then

736
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:08,960
everything fell apart last year? And I don't know, are

737
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,640
they better now than they were like going into let's

738
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,799
say last offseason. What are your thoughts?

739
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,599
Speaker 1: So they're better by well, I mean they're better in

740
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,720
the sense of now Gg Jackson's injury, but to have

741
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:23,160
this information on Vince Williams Junior specifically, so you're better

742
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,319
in that sense, and you should be better because you're healthier.

743
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,200
But this is a team and if you can see

744
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,119
on screen, we have the no taxes me up there.

745
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,319
To just be sitting on the end, I know, this

746
00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:37,000
isn't a team that traditionally spends it. To just be

747
00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:40,039
sitting on a non tax player mid level when your

748
00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:44,079
roster is far from perfect is kind of disgusting. And

749
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:49,079
so I get like wanting to see this core marinate

750
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,680
or what it could look like when they're healthy, Like,

751
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,640
we don't even have enough information on Marcus Smart and

752
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,640
what can he do if you actually want him? They

753
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,039
wanted him to be there, Dylan Brooks and Tias Jones,

754
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,920
and he just wasn't like he scored at it like

755
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:02,240
an absurd clip inside the arc, but like he was

756
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:04,240
committing turnovers left and right, even more so than he

757
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,640
was in Boston. Now, is that a function of all

758
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,320
the absences? Was he overstretched?

759
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:09,119
Speaker 2: Yeah?

760
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:10,679
Speaker 1: He could be. That's what they're trying to find out.

761
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,639
So I kind of get not doing anything hyper aggressive.

762
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,679
Speaker 2: Here's my thing.

763
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: You still clearly needed like wings, and now that issue

764
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,639
has been exacerbated because hey, injuries happened. You know this

765
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,360
as well as any team based off just last season alone,

766
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,360
but in general, and so if we're grading the off

767
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,519
season relatives of their resources. Okay, cool, you drafted your

768
00:34:31,519 --> 00:34:33,880
starter at number nine. You're a team that has like

769
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,239
immediate aspirations. How much will Zachie he play? What does

770
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,760
he look like as a rookie? How much can you

771
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,079
win while stomaching his development? I think we can consider

772
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:43,800
that neutral. And I'm higher on Eedie than I was,

773
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,599
just based off the few summer leaf flashes that we saw.

774
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,519
But like the resources at their disposal, this could have

775
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:51,480
been a Naji Marshall team. This could have been a

776
00:34:51,519 --> 00:34:54,239
Simony von Techio team. This could have been like this

777
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,480
could have been like so many different players would have

778
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,039
fit here, and like the biggest kind of thing you

779
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:02,519
did was rework the Luke Canard deal to ensure that

780
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:04,079
you could and then moves out your Williams to being

781
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,599
sure you could remain under the tax. Why is this?

782
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,400
What is good? My question to you now, after my log?

783
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,039
What is good about this offseason?

784
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 2: I think it, Well, you have to do some gymnastics

785
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,239
I think to get there. One is the Edy pick

786
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,039
might just be the correct pick, and he might be

787
00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:22,079
a starter for you, and that's really hard to find

788
00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:26,599
in a rookie and like you know, also Edie comes

789
00:35:26,639 --> 00:35:29,079
with massive potential downsides, like he might not be able

790
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:30,719
to move in space. He might you know that just

791
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,079
it just may not work. But I think I think

792
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,719
if you're looking for positives, that's one possibility. The harder

793
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,840
one to frame in a positive way is not using

794
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,000
the mid level, because you might say, well, okay, so

795
00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:44,639
maybe that's just something they're going to use down the road,

796
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:46,519
like when there are more options, or you can find

797
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,000
a trade candidate like just the two names you mentioned

798
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:52,719
Fontechio and Marshall. Like, I don't know that you can

799
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,960
reasonably expect to use the mid level like trade exception

800
00:35:57,079 --> 00:35:59,719
quote unquote to get guys better than either of those two.

801
00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: So like you do, by the way, you're gonna have

802
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,119
to give stuff up.

803
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's not just we get they like, it's

804
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,119
something has to go the other way. It could be

805
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:11,199
like kind of a middling I don't know, piece of consideration.

806
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,360
But it's it's really hard to frame that as a positive.

807
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,280
I mean, I don't think I don't think I would.

808
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,559
I think you're a little more I'm projecting like worked

809
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:23,079
up about or like it bothers you more of the

810
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,320
mid level thing than it bothers me because you do

811
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,840
still you can still turn that into something, but that's

812
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,679
something is not going to be better than Naugy Marshall

813
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,480
or I don't I don't think it's likely or Kayla Martin, do.

814
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: You want me to continue down the list? And the

815
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,599
other thing is why would we trust them to use

816
00:36:39,639 --> 00:36:41,519
it when they're so close to the tax? So then

817
00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:43,400
if they do that, it's not just about sending out

818
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,159
maybe pick equity, it's which of their players are they

819
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:48,239
going to trade? Is it they view Lukenard? Is that

820
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,519
kind of expiring contract? So, by the way, here would

821
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,000
be the other thing. Let's just say that the tax,

822
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:55,559
it's fine that they don't want to go into it,

823
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:57,880
even though the way they're built, by the way, I

824
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,159
think the Grizzlies is gonna be really good too. They

825
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:03,079
could win fifty plus games again, but the offseason they

826
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:06,719
didn't act like a team that has those expectations. But

827
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,320
let's just say, let me step outside of my temper

828
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,079
tantrum about them not using their non tax payer level.

829
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,280
You could have just not brought back lu Canard and

830
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,280
then tried like, would you rather have Luke Canard let's

831
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,239
just say, would you rather have Luke Canard or spent

832
00:37:19,599 --> 00:37:22,880
the non tax payer mid level on Mystery Player X?

833
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it probably the latter.

834
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: And what was lu Canard's leverage when we saw Gary

835
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,320
Trenton Junior Malik Beasley get a combined nine million dollars

836
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,880
to get as more than them combined, what was his

837
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,760
leverage that that's a great point.

838
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,039
Speaker 2: I think. So if you're if you're going above a C,

839
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,360
which I don't think we are, you just have to

840
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,480
believe that ed is like this guy is going to

841
00:37:44,519 --> 00:37:46,320
be a plus starter right away.

842
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,559
Speaker 1: And you have the reason I'm not going to an

843
00:37:48,679 --> 00:37:50,519
F is because I think even if he does some

844
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,880
things or if it takes him a while, just like

845
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,599
the space that he generates on screens is just going

846
00:37:56,639 --> 00:37:59,639
to remain there. I think the rebounding will probably translate.

847
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,039
But the other thing is, I know we're concerned about

848
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:04,920
him in space, but having Edie unlocked probably the best

849
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:07,480
version of Jared Jackson Junior on defense that there could

850
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,039
possibly be because of his rebounding it if you need

851
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:12,000
to bring him up, like Jared Jackson Junior is one

852
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,599
of the best helpers around the basket in the league

853
00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:19,320
right now. So I think that is as close to

854
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,599
an above average move that they had. This again, it's

855
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,079
we don't want to I don't want to wait draft

856
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:24,639
picks too much because then why wouldn't we have given

857
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:26,199
the Rockets an A plus for Reed Shepherd?

858
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,639
Speaker 2: Right, So, I I do think there is a at

859
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,960
least the the mL A bit of it is. You

860
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,440
could charitably frame it as incomplete, like it's not totally

861
00:38:37,599 --> 00:38:40,360
the tax. The proximity of the tax makes it unlikely

862
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,519
unless some other stuff happens, but it could still be something.

863
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:45,639
And look, they're not the only team that didn't spend

864
00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:47,199
the MLA. There was more of those that felt like

865
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,400
this offseason than in a long time. I'm leaning like

866
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,920
D plus because I think there is upside in both

867
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,880
of those even though it's not likely. It's still like

868
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,239
it's I don't know, pausible. I just mixed up plausible

869
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,280
and possible and made it plausible.

870
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: So we need to I think our middle ground needs

871
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:08,760
to be like a D or D minus because they

872
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,719
get an F from me, Okay, I mean, by the way,

873
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:11,960
they had to use an asset just to get off

874
00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:14,079
Zaya Williams. They just give him a twenty thirty second

875
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:16,159
like that's not that's and that was, by the way,

876
00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:18,480
that was a Zion Williams. No, getting him is not

877
00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:20,920
part of the grade. But like you moved up to

878
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,840
get him in the draft. Now you had to use

879
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,039
an asset to get him off, Like this is just

880
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,039
this team is so if anything, I hope most Grizzlies

881
00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,039
fans like kind of understand, like I'm being so hard

882
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:34,559
on them because they're they can be so good and

883
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:36,440
it's like this is just if I was a fan,

884
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,519
I would be outraging. So if I'm not gonna you know,

885
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:40,480
we're not gonna quibble about every team not using the

886
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,960
non tax pyramid level because every team is not as

887
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:43,760
good as the Grizzlies.

888
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,199
Speaker 2: Good point. Yeah, no, I'll go I'll go D minus.

889
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:47,880
Then I think that's that's that's a good way to

890
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,199
frame it. And like, man, once for a team this good,

891
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,239
Like when's the last time Memphis had an objectively oh

892
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,360
great offseason, because it doesn't it feels like, you know,

893
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,239
what was the flow chart of like I'm sure Keith

894
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,440
you guys talked about or maybe it was last year,

895
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,320
just like the okay, here are the assets they had,

896
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:06,719
and then here's what those turned into. And it's like,

897
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,400
is there a leak somewhere? Like, how did how did

898
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,239
how did one turn into the other? Did they just disappear?

899
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,519
Because they have not managed much transactionally very well like

900
00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:19,119
over the last say five years, and yet they're still

901
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:21,639
really good and have upside because their best players are

902
00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:22,719
still young enough to get better.

903
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,199
Speaker 1: I am waiting for someone to tell us that Cam

904
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,960
Spencer is going to be a better version of Lukenard,

905
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,559
so this grade should be higher, And.

906
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,119
Speaker 2: Well, why is Lukenard back then?

907
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: And by the way, you're so you're such a believer

908
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,400
in Cam Spencer that he's on a two way.

909
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: Yeah right.

910
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: Our next team is your New Orleans Pelicans. Damn, you

911
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:45,119
got me.

912
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

913
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:49,119
Speaker 1: I normally welcome taking ownership of the Pelicans, and I'm

914
00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:51,960
still incredibly high on them. But we got some questions.

915
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,480
But before we get to the questions, grant uh. They

916
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:58,079
drafted Eves mecI at number twenty one. They traded second

917
00:40:58,119 --> 00:41:00,320
round swaps in twenty thirty and twenty three. He won

918
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,599
to Orlando for Antonio Reeves and number forty seven. He

919
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:05,519
then signed a three year, five point four million dollar

920
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:08,719
deal with the first two years guaranteed. They might know

921
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,239
something about Antonio Reeves that I've apparently not looked into.

922
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,519
That's like, you know, I know they're swaps, but still

923
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,400
picked up Hoost Alvarado's two million dollar team option, picked

924
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,599
up Jeremiah Robinson Earl's two point two million dollar team option.

925
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,199
The big one. They traded Dyson Daniels, Larry Nanz Junior,

926
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:25,920
e j Lddell Cody Zeller who it was a sign

927
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,239
and trade for him the Lakers twenty twenty five first,

928
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,760
and the less favorable of Milwaukee's and New Orleans is

929
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,400
twenty twenty seven first with top four for top four protection.

930
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,239
Excuse me for de Jontay Murray, Daniel Tice one year

931
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,280
minimum deal, Javonte Green one year minimum deal, Carlo Makovic

932
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:45,800
number fifty two pick in twenty twenty two signed for

933
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,320
three years five point four million. The first two are guaranteed. Uh.

934
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:53,079
That's like the stuff that they actually did were done.

935
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,559
But this team is just built around questions. They did

936
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:58,800
news by the way, they waived Matt Ryan. He's now

937
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,639
back on an exhibit nine. Naji Marshall. He went to

938
00:42:01,639 --> 00:42:04,000
the MAVs L he talked about him and Jonna svalentchunaz

939
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,039
is in Washington three years, thirty million, but the two questions, Actually,

940
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,719
I guess it's really three. But what's going on with

941
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,920
Brandon Ingram. He's eligible for a four year, two hundred

942
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,599
and seven point nine million dollar extension. The Pelicans don't

943
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:17,840
want to pay him that much. It seems like he

944
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,840
wants to make that much. So now he's in trade rumors,

945
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,280
but the market is tep it at best. And also

946
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,880
trade Murphy is extension eligible. So those two things might

947
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,440
be intertwined. Is can you afford to pay both of them?

948
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,559
Probably not? How much are you willing to pay bi

949
00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:32,159
if you have to pay Murphy? So those numbers matter.

950
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,320
And then the thing that's just connected to everything, what's

951
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,679
going on at the five. I would highly recommend to

952
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,000
people go check out the episode I did with Schmid

953
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:43,079
Duo of In the Know where I was pleasantly surprised

954
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:44,960
to hear him say this, but just based off the

955
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,400
Javonte Green signing. And then the current setup is like

956
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,360
Thepelicans are just planning to play small and so they

957
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,320
can do stuff with Herb Jones and Deavonte Green where

958
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,159
they're defending bigs. As Schmid pointed out, like brandon Ingram

959
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,880
has done stuff like that in the past. It will

960
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,800
depend on matchups. But is brandon Ingram gonna be here? Uh? Grant,

961
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,239
I don't like this offseason they did so much like

962
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,440
they acquired to Jeante Murray, which is a big deal,

963
00:43:07,559 --> 00:43:10,800
and yet their off season still feels so unfinished.

964
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:14,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not gonna incomplete on this one, but I

965
00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:17,000
mean there's a case to be made that you could.

966
00:43:17,639 --> 00:43:21,519
So I want to ask you do you think because

967
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,360
I think it's fair to say that having brandon Ingram

968
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,039
in the current position they are in with him, which

969
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:30,880
is potentially as an expiring contract that you cannot trade

970
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,079
because nobody wants to be the team that either rents

971
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:35,119
him for a tiny amount of time or has to

972
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:38,960
pay him what he wants. Is that of this offseason demerit?

973
00:43:39,079 --> 00:43:40,519
Or is it like more you know how we used

974
00:43:40,519 --> 00:43:43,559
to treat Toronto situation like or does it go back farther?

975
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,320
Speaker 1: Why is it a demerit? I would argue that they're

976
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,519
handling the brandon Ingram situation perfectly.

977
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 2: Great counter question, I agree, I'm not paying Brandon Ingram

978
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,360
what he wants if I'm New Orleans. So in that sense, yeah,

979
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,559
it's it's their great would be worse. I think if

980
00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:59,400
they gave him that deal, don't you think, don't you

981
00:44:00,559 --> 00:44:02,800
at least you could make the case like Zion and.

982
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,519
Speaker 1: Ingram pairing was complicated enough, and now you've added to

983
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:07,800
Jeon dea Murray into the equation, and that to me,

984
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,400
the Dejontay Murray deal. I like Larry n I like

985
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,400
Tyson Dyson Daniels, but that's a decided the above average

986
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,280
move to me.

987
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: So I guess I guess what I'm asking is is, well,

988
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:24,440
I guess maybe the rhetorical question I'm asking is, wouldn't

989
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,960
it have been better if they had traded Brandon Ingram

990
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,840
at last year's deadline or even before that, than to

991
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,800
be in the current position they're in with him now?

992
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,519
And do we consider that at all for this offseason grade?

993
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,159
Speaker 1: So I can't get there just because if this is

994
00:44:38,199 --> 00:44:40,199
what the market is for him now in the offseason,

995
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:42,719
when teams are more flexible, what would it have been

996
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,159
in the middle of the year. And I think what's

997
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,480
really looming over Brandon was still a hell of a player.

998
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,960
He's probably tough to fit in a larger context of

999
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,400
the team. But if you go back to his first

1000
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,920
season in New Orleans and look at that shot profile

1001
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,559
compared to where he's at, and now like that player

1002
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:59,920
might be in there somewhere. The bigger thing to me

1003
00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:04,000
would just be, do you demerit them for complicating and

1004
00:45:04,079 --> 00:45:07,639
already complicated fit with Zion by adding to Jonta Murray.

1005
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:09,679
And I don't think you do, because I think de

1006
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,000
Jentay Mary's gonna end up he's a better ball handler.

1007
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:14,320
I trust his if you don't, even if you want

1008
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,280
to say they're about even his pastors, I'd probably disagree.

1009
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,880
But let's say're about even his passers. Does Jontay Murray

1010
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,559
more than Brandon Ingram? And I've said this so many

1011
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:22,920
times in the pod, there's just not like a two

1012
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,960
man dynamic between Zion and Brandon Ingram. De Jontay Murray

1013
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,719
should invite more creative usage with Zion off the ball,

1014
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,719
and so I'm still fine with that trade. I don't

1015
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:34,239
know what to do with the brandon Ingram of it all,

1016
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,239
because this really seems like I guess what I'm getting at,

1017
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:38,880
like it's more of an issue if teams don't want

1018
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,880
to pay him, rather than we think brandon Ingram sucks.

1019
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:45,639
Speaker 2: Right, No, that totally I agree, Like I brandon Ingram's

1020
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:47,199
in a tough spot because like some of this he

1021
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,320
seems to have done to himself, like whatever happened with

1022
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,119
Team USA two summers ago was not a great look.

1023
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,039
And then I don't it just the fit doesn't work.

1024
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:57,559
That's not necessarily his fault, although he could change his

1025
00:45:57,559 --> 00:45:59,719
shot profile to your point. Yeah, so I don't know.

1026
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,679
The just the brandon Ingram situation is such a big

1027
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,639
part of like what there is to talk about with

1028
00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:07,920
with the Pelicans that like, I feel like we have

1029
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,280
to weigh that somehow, but I don't really know what

1030
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,559
you do with it. It's easier to say, well, it's

1031
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,320
the grade has to be, it has to trend down

1032
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,000
because of the center situation, and like that just you

1033
00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:21,400
can't go into this season. We love we love the

1034
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,719
idea of them playing small, but like the defense just

1035
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,079
can only be so good if if you're not having

1036
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:29,519
We don't neither of us love Valentiunis, but like great

1037
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:32,920
rebounder at least like limit teams to one shot like that.

1038
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: The defensive rebounding rate when he was off the floor

1039
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:36,320
last year just plummeted.

1040
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,639
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a problem, right, And we spent a

1041
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:40,280
hell of a lot of time last year talking about,

1042
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,280
oh it was the three point defense smoking mirrors, like

1043
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,639
that whole thing. What if that reverts the normal and

1044
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:47,039
you're now giving up offensive rebounds left and right, like

1045
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,400
not having a clear cut starting center is you know,

1046
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:54,039
is just like that's a problem for a team that

1047
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,679
projects to be like really good at almost everything else

1048
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,519
you'd want him to be good at. That's such a hole.

1049
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,159
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is And if grizly fans

1050
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:03,599
are still listening, another team that didn't use the bi

1051
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:06,119
annual or the non tax PAYERMD level and like they

1052
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:08,599
didn't even need that to keep Naji Marshall, who they

1053
00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:10,760
just had bird rights on. He's just gone. That's another

1054
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,719
good positional rebounder out the door, by the way, So

1055
00:47:14,199 --> 00:47:17,719
that's a huge demerit. I love Davontae Green. I think

1056
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,880
that signing is like a plus plus plus plus if

1057
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,159
he's healthy. But as it stands right now, Grant, this

1058
00:47:22,199 --> 00:47:24,239
is actually something I had to write about. I came

1059
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,800
up with They're not predictions, but I overreacted to every

1060
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,119
team's offseason like one overreaction, and I penciled in, like

1061
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:33,719
Javonte Green's gonna have to play fifteen hundred plus minutes

1062
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:36,000
for this team because if you want to play small

1063
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,119
like we're thinking they are, like, you need guys like

1064
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,960
him and Herb Jones who are so schooled it guarding

1065
00:47:41,039 --> 00:47:44,159
up and handling some of the lower like man stuff.

1066
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,679
Like that's honestly, just to let Naji Marshall leave. You

1067
00:47:48,679 --> 00:47:52,000
didn't get any conversation for Naji Marshall. That's a who

1068
00:47:52,079 --> 00:47:53,880
I mean, that's an F minus move, Like just letting

1069
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,280
Naji Marshall go because you're concerned about the tax, which

1070
00:47:56,519 --> 00:47:59,280
they're currently inside two million dollars of the tax. I

1071
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,960
believe about one five to one point six around that number.

1072
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,920
So like, I don't know how to square that with

1073
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:09,880
this because I think everything they've done, like it's weird

1074
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,880
because we're very much penalizing them for stuff that they

1075
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,760
didn't do. But I also think that that's fair in

1076
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,280
this scenario because look at the confluence of everything we know,

1077
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,960
Trammer people get an extension that's gonna be Is it

1078
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,719
a team friendly? One is it market value able to

1079
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,239
se where the number comes in. But like the brandon

1080
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,239
Ingram situation, like not resolving that letting it float into

1081
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,199
the season isn't great, but it's also the right call.

1082
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,320
So I won't ding them for that. But the center rotation,

1083
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:37,159
the not keeping Naji Marshall but being so just tax

1084
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,360
conscious for a team that wants to compete for something special.

1085
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,000
But then again, I like the Jaj. I don't honestly

1086
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:47,719
my grade for them. Go ahead, I honestly don't know

1087
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,119
where it's like this is this just a C C

1088
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,280
minus Austin don't I don't know where to land. It's

1089
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,840
that I think to say, is it is even a

1090
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,000
D or D plus too strong? When you're looking at

1091
00:48:57,039 --> 00:48:58,559
the center, like if you just view it through the

1092
00:48:58,639 --> 00:49:02,880
lens of a Marshall gone for nothing and you don't

1093
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,760
have to call Valanchoe, it's gone. It's more so like

1094
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,280
look at the center rotation as of.

1095
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:11,159
Speaker 2: Right now, I think to give them above a flat sea,

1096
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,760
you would have to argue that the Murray trade brings

1097
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,440
more positive value to the grade, not just talking about

1098
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,480
the grade than the lack of a center and the

1099
00:49:23,559 --> 00:49:29,000
Naji Marshall exit like knocks the grade down. Maybe that's true,

1100
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,039
but I don't think we're both like I don't think

1101
00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:33,039
either of us are over the moon about Oh my god,

1102
00:49:33,119 --> 00:49:35,559
Murray was the missing piece and this is a perfect fit.

1103
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,320
It's like, no, you got like a like a higher

1104
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,480
end starter for you know, like not a small out

1105
00:49:42,519 --> 00:49:44,760
like you gave up. We like Dyson Daniels, you know,

1106
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,239
two first round picks like that's I think Murray makes

1107
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,119
them better, but I don't. I'm leaning C minus, I

1108
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:54,119
guess is where I'm going because I don't know that

1109
00:49:54,119 --> 00:49:56,599
that's such a home run move to two teams in

1110
00:49:56,639 --> 00:49:58,679
a row of baseball analogies. I don't know what's happening

1111
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,719
it that it offsets the Marshall thing and the lack

1112
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,199
of the starting center. Just it feels like those two

1113
00:50:05,199 --> 00:50:07,920
things matter more in the negative than the Murray trade

1114
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,199
matters towards the positive.

1115
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: And I also think, but I think I'm gonna end

1116
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:15,880
up at a C minus too, And what they also

1117
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,880
did with the Murray trade, I really do think that

1118
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:19,800
was probably like a B plus a minus move, but

1119
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,480
I tend to be higher on like think about the

1120
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:23,559
Jeanta Murray now as sort of more of a chaos

1121
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,559
agent on defense because you have the buildings.

1122
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,079
Speaker 2: Like he used to, then we I reevaluate my stance

1123
00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:29,599
on it for.

1124
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,599
Speaker 1: Sure, and so he should be able to And so

1125
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:33,559
like that I'm super high on. But like what they

1126
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:37,000
also did with that trade is like they got rid

1127
00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:40,159
of their best mid end salary matching tools. Where Dyson

1128
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,719
Daniel's making like six million whatever, Larry NaN's junior in

1129
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,239
the basically close to a figure range, and now it's

1130
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:49,039
your primary salar matching tools are blockbuster sized in brand

1131
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:52,800
Ingram Mercy J McCollum, or they make nothing in Jordan Hawkins,

1132
00:50:53,199 --> 00:50:56,000
or they're Herb Jones who you're not trading. And yeah,

1133
00:50:56,039 --> 00:50:59,159
so that's something that's like weird a situation to be

1134
00:50:59,159 --> 00:51:02,039
in and maybe makes acquiring a center independent of moving

1135
00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:04,599
Angram or CJ. McCollum that much harder. You can say,

1136
00:51:04,599 --> 00:51:08,599
we'll just move Jordan Hawkins for Darron Sharper Walker Kessler.

1137
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,679
Are the Nets or Jazz doing that? I mean, like

1138
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,800
maybe the Nets would do that, But so, I that's hard.

1139
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,960
But the other thing too is just like Zion Williams,

1140
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,760
I don't know Williamson, Sorry, I don't know who needs

1141
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,239
to hear this, but he's dealt with some injuries in

1142
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,000
the past, and so if your whole like, how are

1143
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:28,039
you playing small without him? Right? If Zion Williamson needs

1144
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:31,159
to miss time, like now we're now it's okay, Well,

1145
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:33,920
like now Daniel, Tye and maybe Mesi and Mocka is

1146
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,599
like those guys need to play minutes, It's like that's

1147
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:39,039
really because you like, how small are you gonna play?

1148
00:51:39,079 --> 00:51:42,000
Because Zion's like this massive body still, So if he's

1149
00:51:42,039 --> 00:51:45,599
not on the floor, I'm assuming that's when you're gonna

1150
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:49,800
have to go to the Tye, Carlow or Mesi experimentation.

1151
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,440
Because if it's not him in the middle, who is

1152
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,280
a Jeremiah Robinson earl, then I get like, that's like,

1153
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,400
that's even wildly uncomfortable. So I think C minus is right,

1154
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:01,559
and I'm I'm gonna say this now it might even

1155
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:02,360
be too generous.

1156
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,199
Speaker 2: As you were talking, I was kind of feeling some

1157
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,239
D plus vibes a little bit.

1158
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:10,360
Speaker 1: It's tough because I love the Murray move and the

1159
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,039
Javonte Green move, but it's like it doesn't offset some

1160
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:15,639
of this, and if we're not and also if we're

1161
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:18,840
not going to if we're actually thinking that they handle

1162
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,239
the brandon Ingram situation properly, the way to critique him

1163
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:24,199
on that would be they should have moved him at

1164
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:26,199
the peak of his value. But when was the peak

1165
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:28,559
of his value? That really kind of hard to discern.

1166
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: I think too, just if we're gonna we knocked the

1167
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,639
Grizzlies for, you know, being tax averse with the team

1168
00:52:34,679 --> 00:52:37,000
that could win fifty plus, I think we should probably

1169
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:40,400
apply the same criticism to the Pelicans, right, like they

1170
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:44,960
just you can't be I don't know, pinching pennies or whatever.

1171
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:47,119
I don't know, don't doesn't that factor in a little

1172
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:49,360
bit for you too, where it's like, really, we're going

1173
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,679
to be this cost conscious when we're this.

1174
00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: Goozing Naji Marshall just for nothing, because you won't even

1175
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,440
like commit to being below the like just being a

1176
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,199
little bit inside the tax So I just we're going

1177
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,719
D plus D plus.

1178
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:06,119
Speaker 2: Okay, that's well, again conceding we think the Pelicans are

1179
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:08,159
going to be good, and we like almost all their players,

1180
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:09,119
but it's.

1181
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: Just it's like a D plus that has they have

1182
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
more because we know the Grizzlies are basically done. This

1183
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:17,760
is a D plus that has the potential to be

1184
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,760
raised a bunch like maybe they make a good Ingram trade.

1185
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,519
Maybe they addressed that. Honestly, if I just told you

1186
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:25,880
they turned around and traded for day Ron Sharp. How

1187
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,599
much does this does this grade change? It's like they're

1188
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:31,440
still having still mcclum, but it's like now they're probably

1189
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,119
like C C plus range.

1190
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,559
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it wouldn't be hard. They have some upward

1191
00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:36,519
mobility for sure.

1192
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: Our next team is grant they are well, I would

1193
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,119
like that. Oh no, they're yours, San Anti.

1194
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,559
Speaker 2: Deal with it all right. So the San Antonio Spurs,

1195
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:49,960
they drafted Sefon Castle at number four. They had number eight,

1196
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,199
which became Rob Dillingham, but they traded that pick to

1197
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:54,960
the Minnesota Timberwolds for a twenty thirty swap with top

1198
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,239
one protection and a twenty thirty one first rounder. Just

1199
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,800
a sweet piece of business, right. The drafted Harrison Ingram

1200
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,239
at number forty eight, traded number thirty five Johnny Furfey

1201
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:07,239
for number thirty six one Nunias and cash traded DeVante

1202
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,679
Graham and the New Orleans Pelicans twenty twenty five second

1203
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,800
to Charlotte signed Chris Paul one year ten point five

1204
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,920
million traded Raikwan Gray, which was number fifty nine and

1205
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,320
twenty twenty one. He's on a two way for Harrison

1206
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,599
Barnes and a twenty thirty one first round squat from

1207
00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:22,639
Sacramento that was part of the Demardros and sign and

1208
00:54:22,679 --> 00:54:27,119
trade another sweaking bulls. Hey, we're not talking about the bulls.

1209
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:30,119
We're just talking about the Spurs horning in on incredible trades,

1210
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,079
willing to take on some money for lottery tickets. Respect

1211
00:54:34,119 --> 00:54:36,840
it signed Sondra Mamiska. Oh, I almost got it on

1212
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,199
the first try, Mamu Kelshvili. When you're at the minimum.

1213
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: Time, wait, can we just pause? That was just I

1214
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,559
know it took you two tries. I just call him

1215
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:46,840
Mamu now because my tongue gets twisted too much.

1216
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,039
Speaker 2: I kind of like pride myself on being able to

1217
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:51,639
pronounce hard names. But I really got over my skis

1218
00:54:51,679 --> 00:54:52,880
on that one. I went too quickly.

1219
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 1: Can you say Archie Yakino ten times fast?

1220
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:58,599
Speaker 2: I do like what he had a cool nickname. Then

1221
00:54:58,639 --> 00:55:02,480
I now can't remember cool good content. Grant uh I

1222
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,639
guarantee Jillian Shane Fanny's twenty twenty four twenty five salary

1223
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,000
signed David Duke Junior and Harrison Ingram the two ways

1224
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:16,320
uh oh, much to our chagrin. Dominic Barlow gone, yeah, yeah,

1225
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,880
means unsigned, he's got to be one of the best

1226
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:20,199
guys that's not signed to a deal.

1227
00:55:20,639 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: Fucking we well, I mean that's that's like really like

1228
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,920
damn it with fav it's a rough crew, but still

1229
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,119
means like, why is that like someone who can shoot

1230
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:32,280
has scored efficiently in the ARC. I know there's defensive concerns,

1231
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,880
but by the way, for this team specifically, I know

1232
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,320
we're not like I don't love the draft pick in

1233
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,039
the sense of I know what Stephan Castle is supposed

1234
00:55:41,079 --> 00:55:44,559
to be defensively, but like, could we just get actual

1235
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:46,639
shooting around Victor wimberin Yama for a chance? I mean,

1236
00:55:46,679 --> 00:55:49,280
Harrison Barnes, Okay, that's a plus. CP three is not

1237
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,440
high volume enough to be considered a plus. Now you

1238
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,280
have steph Castle, Jeremy Sohan, Malachi Brandham, Blake Wesley in

1239
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,039
the same rotation, maybe all these guys that can't really shoot,

1240
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,480
and so it's okay, Harrison Barnes, Julian Champenny and then

1241
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,800
more Victor wimen Yama off the dribble threes enough to

1242
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,519
sustain you. And by the way, I like, this is

1243
00:56:08,679 --> 00:56:11,360
Johnny Furfey. They dumped him thea that would have been

1244
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,559
a great fit for this team based off some of

1245
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:17,440
their needs. And so I I like the Spurs offseason overall,

1246
00:56:17,519 --> 00:56:19,760
but I'm like, could we get some like a shooting

1247
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,559
infusion on this roster at some point?

1248
00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 2: I mean, is it? I think it tells a little

1249
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:29,239
bit about like sometimes my brain is still in twenty

1250
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,920
twelve or something when I'm like, well, but the Spurs

1251
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,159
liked Wan nuniaz In cash better, so clearly they know

1252
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,760
something nobody else does. And Johnny Furfrey's not gonna fan out.

1253
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,719
I don't know, Like that was my still that's still

1254
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:43,079
my knee jerk reaction, even though that kind of thinking

1255
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,320
has like, well, it's not been true of the Spurs

1256
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,119
for almost ten.

1257
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:49,599
Speaker 1: Years, right they it's still mine too. It's not as

1258
00:56:49,639 --> 00:56:51,719
nearly as scary as it is with the Thunder to

1259
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,159
where it's like when they trade, like it's like, oh,

1260
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,920
I like that guy, and it's like the Thunder him

1261
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:57,960
like he's probably gonna suck.

1262
00:56:59,039 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've taken on the Mantle. Okay, so this is

1263
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,840
still a really good offseason, even if we're not sure

1264
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,280
about the Castle fit, even if we don't love the

1265
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,880
lack of shooting, just because the way that they capitalize

1266
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,599
on Minnesota's like not desperations too strong, but Minnesota recognizing like,

1267
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:19,480
we got one more shot probably at getting someone into

1268
00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:23,119
our salary structure that could actually play. Getting all that,

1269
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:26,000
getting that you know, basically two firsts or you know,

1270
00:57:26,159 --> 00:57:29,159
one swap and one out right for number eight, which

1271
00:57:29,239 --> 00:57:32,199
like again in a draft that nobody loves, that's huge.

1272
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:34,320
And then the the Harrison Barnes in a twenty thirty

1273
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,840
one swap is like, that's just that's such good value,

1274
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,199
Like they just the Spurs had no business being involved

1275
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:41,519
in that, and they just get in there and get

1276
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:42,719
the best asset in the deal.

1277
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 1: And by waiting like out like that because I mean,

1278
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,239
look at Charlotte, who's linked to this team because they

1279
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:52,079
took on Devonte Graham, they could would you rather have DeVante?

1280
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,440
Would they wait? So you have New Orleans' twenty twenty

1281
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,320
five second and Josh Green and then you got two

1282
00:57:57,559 --> 00:58:00,320
but Reggie Jackson, like would you rather have had? And

1283
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,519
Barnes and that pick swap or would you rather have

1284
00:58:02,639 --> 00:58:06,079
Devonte Graham waving him that twenty twenty five second from

1285
00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:08,079
New Orleans and Josh Green like, that's a fair question.

1286
00:58:08,119 --> 00:58:11,360
But the Spurs waiting out the market that ended up

1287
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,440
benefiting them. That was a stroke of like genius.

1288
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,559
Speaker 2: That's one of those moves where you're like, oh, maybe

1289
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:18,760
the Spurs do still have it because they're just getting

1290
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,039
in on deals that they shouldn't. Like where's everybody else

1291
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:24,119
on this? You know? I get it, like not Everyone's

1292
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,639
willing to take on Harrison Barnes' contract for pick that

1293
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,719
far out, but like, I don't know, And I mean

1294
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,000
the other main major thing to discuss is the Chris

1295
00:58:33,079 --> 00:58:36,360
Paul acquisition. I like it. I think if you're gonna

1296
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:39,119
it gives you this opportunity to see, like, well, what

1297
00:58:39,159 --> 00:58:41,199
does Wemby look like as a pick and roll spam

1298
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,440
role guy? Like that could be fun and you know

1299
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:45,239
that's how Chris Paul's gonna play. So I like the

1300
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,320
upside on that one too.

1301
00:58:47,119 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean we've everyone decided this ad nauseum.

1302
00:58:50,559 --> 00:58:52,480
They're like a plus five point two points per one

1303
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:54,840
hundred posessions when Wemby plays with Trey Jones last year.

1304
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,719
That is now the standard for basically, let's say at

1305
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,599
least like forty to forty eight minutes a game because

1306
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:01,679
you have Chris Paul. Yeah, and there's a chance that,

1307
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:03,800
just like you mention it, if he can become more

1308
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,400
of a play finisher than having to be a play

1309
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,119
initiator or starter a lot of the time wills catch

1310
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:10,119
and shoot three point percentage come up? Is this someone

1311
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,960
I'm gonna ask you, Grant? Is there a scenario where

1312
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,440
his job now is so much not so much easier,

1313
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,840
but more streamlined on offense than he just averages thirty

1314
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:18,559
points per game?

1315
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 2: Dan, you're asking the wrong guy about outlandish wmby He averaged.

1316
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:26,239
Speaker 1: About twenty two in thirty minutes per game. Now, maybe

1317
00:59:26,239 --> 00:59:28,199
they still keep his minichen check, which that you know,

1318
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:29,960
if he's only gonna play like thirty or thirty two,

1319
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,519
he's probably not averaging thirty. But like the Spurs could

1320
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:35,800
be involved in some games, that meant like they might

1321
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:37,920
be a play in team. It's not outside the realm

1322
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:38,760
of possibility.

1323
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 2: No, I think. I think what I'd say is I

1324
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:44,199
would have picked him to be in like the mid

1325
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:48,360
to high twenties regardless, but his shot quality is just

1326
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,119
gonna be higher, like if you're just if you're swapping

1327
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:54,599
in three like Rollman possessions or three pick and pop

1328
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:58,000
possessions for some of the other really difficult like unassisted

1329
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:00,960
stuff that he was having to do as rookie last year,

1330
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,480
the true shooting is gonna be It just has to

1331
01:00:03,519 --> 01:00:06,079
be higher. Like I don't know what ceiling I would like,

1332
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:08,000
is he gonna get above sixty? Is it gonna be

1333
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:10,639
something ridiculous for a high volume score? I don't know,

1334
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:15,239
but it's just it. It's the Paul acquisition just threads

1335
01:00:15,239 --> 01:00:19,159
the needle perfectly between Like we still want Wemby to

1336
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:21,679
kind of like get to explore the space because god knows,

1337
01:00:21,719 --> 01:00:24,679
nobody has any idea like what his offensive role ultimately

1338
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:27,280
is gonna be. But also let's like have this nice

1339
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,039
safety blanket where if hey, he needs an easy one,

1340
01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:33,960
like who's who's better at just like probing and probing

1341
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,000
and probing until you get somebody an easy one than

1342
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:38,880
Chris Paul. Even now, like that's still just he's gonna

1343
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:41,719
give Wemby if Wenby misses four shots in a row,

1344
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,880
like guess what, Like Paul's gonna find him that fifth one,

1345
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,280
and it's gonna be a clean look.

1346
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: I guess my one question that was do they to

1347
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,400
bring it back to the spacing is do they have

1348
01:00:50,639 --> 01:00:53,039
like the proper space and to capitalize on wemby being

1349
01:00:53,079 --> 01:00:55,719
in those situations to where he's not almost forced or

1350
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:57,239
compelled to stay on the perimeter.

1351
01:00:57,639 --> 01:00:59,679
Speaker 2: They're not only less able to do that this year

1352
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:01,920
than I mean, like Gus, I guess if we're talking

1353
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,880
about their offseason, like we should knock them for really,

1354
01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:07,559
I mean, maybe Barnes helps a little bit. He spent

1355
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:09,199
a lot of time in the corner for this Kings

1356
01:01:09,199 --> 01:01:11,320
the last few years. Like that's something I want to

1357
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:11,679
make clear.

1358
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: I'm not this is not part of my grade because

1359
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,199
he wasn't on the board. But if you is there

1360
01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:17,440
any like would you have traded four and eight or

1361
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,639
if you could have done number four and like the

1362
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:23,599
swap or even just the twenty like one of those

1363
01:01:23,639 --> 01:01:25,800
things you got from Minnesota for Reed Shepherd, would you.

1364
01:01:25,719 --> 01:01:28,559
Speaker 2: Have done this a million? Of course?

1365
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,559
Speaker 1: I think I agree with you. It's not part of

1366
01:01:31,559 --> 01:01:34,079
their grade. I'm just like, because it's to move up

1367
01:01:34,159 --> 01:01:36,480
one spot and a draft no one loved, but I

1368
01:01:36,559 --> 01:01:40,360
loved honestly, the only team, like realistically that I would

1369
01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:42,599
have liked him potentially better on than the Spurs is

1370
01:01:42,679 --> 01:01:45,280
the Rockets, but like the Spurs probably would have played

1371
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,880
him more than the Rockets are going to.

1372
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 2: I think, so there you go.

1373
01:01:48,239 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I I don't know where I land on

1374
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:53,880
the off sheet. It's not an A, no, that's for sure.

1375
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,519
I think it's probably like a B B plus range

1376
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:57,639
maybe B plus.

1377
01:01:58,039 --> 01:02:00,599
Speaker 2: I think a B plus feels about right, because I mean, like,

1378
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:05,119
what's the well Dominic Barlow, Yeah, Dominic Barlow. Everything else

1379
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:07,519
brings the f up from giving up mon Dominic Barlow.

1380
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:11,800
I mean you could nitpick on Castle, I guess, because

1381
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,440
he has like a handful of pretty obvious flaws that

1382
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,400
you don't want to see and someone you you think

1383
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,400
might be like a lead guard or something close to

1384
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,000
that starting guard. But I just the Paul thing that

1385
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:24,400
getting all those picks from you know that they didn't

1386
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,639
really have a right to it. B plus feels he

1387
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,079
plus feels right to me, not an A. Though it's

1388
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:33,320
not an A. I don't think will go be. We'll

1389
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:33,639
go be.

1390
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: And it's it's so tough with the rookies because I

1391
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,920
don't want, but like, this is a pick I feel

1392
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:40,719
strongly about. But then it's like who I would have

1393
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,199
taken just diverges so much from just like what the consensus,

1394
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,519
Like I would have just taken Cody Williams and or.

1395
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,639
Speaker 2: Like Ron Holland comes off the board next, right, you

1396
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:51,000
could have just taken Ron Holland.

1397
01:02:51,199 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you didn't care about shooting, Like, let's go

1398
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,000
with Ron Ron Holland.

1399
01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 2: There.

1400
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: Uh. The other thing I like about their off season,

1401
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,039
by the way, which is why I think it B

1402
01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:00,320
plus might be if I was at a B I

1403
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,920
do like, while I still would have if the price

1404
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,559
was right and you could have gotten a Trey Young

1405
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:07,719
or Darius Garland or LaMelo, but like I absolutely would

1406
01:03:07,719 --> 01:03:09,679
have done it. But the fact that they didn't fall

1407
01:03:09,719 --> 01:03:11,719
into not even that it was a trap, but that

1408
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:14,000
I know the Spurson never feel this way. But Wenby's

1409
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,360
so good that you could have talked to yourself into

1410
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:17,960
saying like, no, Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes can't be

1411
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,079
the two biggest acquisitions that we have. And yet that

1412
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:24,960
trade with number eight, like there's still very much focused

1413
01:03:25,039 --> 01:03:27,280
on the future. But I read it as because they

1414
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,920
accepted picks so far out that those are not selections.

1415
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,079
They're planning on keeping like they are prepared and have

1416
01:03:34,159 --> 01:03:37,800
the removerability to if the opportunity presents itself. That could

1417
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,880
be this season, by the way, if they're better than expected,

1418
01:03:40,239 --> 01:03:42,440
they can make a move. Maybe it's next offseason when

1419
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,360
they have maybe they get another lottery pick and they

1420
01:03:44,679 --> 01:03:48,400
explore that route. But I did respect not falling into

1421
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,920
the potential trap of we don't need to be a

1422
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:53,840
contender next season, but like we need to have like

1423
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,079
someone in their prime like got here and we went

1424
01:03:56,119 --> 01:03:58,639
out and got them to try and maximize Wemby. I

1425
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:00,320
don't think they were ever gonna fall into way put

1426
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,639
the discourse around like they need to do this, you

1427
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,320
have to give up whatever it takes to get Trey

1428
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,159
Young and it's I kind of liked Trey Young here,

1429
01:04:06,159 --> 01:04:07,920
but no, you absolutely did not need to do that.

1430
01:04:08,199 --> 01:04:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that, all right. That takes us too. Oh,

1431
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:13,639
I think they're yours, which will be good because I

1432
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:15,440
know you're gonna kill him Denver Nuggets.

1433
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: Oh man, how much time we got hold on?

1434
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:18,519
Speaker 2: Guy?

1435
01:04:18,599 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: Let me just uh uh okay, So they I can't

1436
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:25,840
even do this offseason with a stray face.

1437
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:26,400
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

1438
01:04:26,679 --> 01:04:29,559
Speaker 1: They traded number twenty six Ryan Dunn, number fifty six,

1439
01:04:29,639 --> 01:04:32,679
who became Kevin mccullar Junior, a twenty twenty six second

1440
01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:35,840
and a twenty thirty one second for de Ron Holmes

1441
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,360
the second. He was the number twenty two pick and

1442
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,760
he has torn his right achilles so he will not

1443
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:44,760
be playing next season. They traded Reggie Jackson, a twenty

1444
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,519
twenty nine second and a twenty thirty second to Charlotte.

1445
01:04:48,239 --> 01:04:50,719
They signed Russell Westbrook to a two year minimum with

1446
01:04:50,719 --> 01:04:53,199
a player option. In twenty five twenty six, they signed

1447
01:04:53,239 --> 01:04:56,480
Dario Sharitch for the mini MLE with a player option.

1448
01:04:56,519 --> 01:04:58,599
It's a two year, ten point six million dollar deal

1449
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:03,039
twenty twenty five, two twenty six player option. DeAndre Jordan's

1450
01:05:03,079 --> 01:05:05,840
back one year VET minimum, black Coke Chanchar's back one

1451
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,239
year minimum. By the way, grant, they lost Kentavious Colbo Pope.

1452
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,119
Did you know that three years, sixty six million player

1453
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:16,719
option in year three. That's what he got from Orlando. Notably,

1454
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:20,880
they have two extension eligible players in Jamal Murray, eligible

1455
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:22,440
for the four year, two hundred and seven point nine

1456
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,679
million dollar extension has not signed it yet, which maybe

1457
01:05:25,679 --> 01:05:28,079
that's just a matter of the two sides not linking up,

1458
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:31,480
but something to a file away could still happen. And

1459
01:05:31,519 --> 01:05:34,079
then Aaron Gordon's also extension eligible. We haven't heard a

1460
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:36,280
whisper of that at all. If he declines his player option,

1461
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,360
I think he could go to four years, one hundred

1462
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,039
and forty four point seven million as his max.

1463
01:05:42,159 --> 01:05:43,159
Speaker 2: Woo.

1464
01:05:43,239 --> 01:05:47,039
Speaker 1: So, Grant, how are you feeling about this team's offseason.

1465
01:05:47,599 --> 01:05:50,239
Speaker 2: I know we're trying to wait until the end of

1466
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:51,960
our discussion to give a grea.

1467
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,719
Speaker 1: Don't do it. Don't do it. You're gonna people are

1468
01:05:53,719 --> 01:05:54,719
gonna tune out already.

1469
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:58,519
Speaker 2: It's well, it's it's simple, right, It's not like you're

1470
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:00,679
a team that won a title to two years ago.

1471
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,119
You have a starting five that is as good as

1472
01:06:04,159 --> 01:06:06,280
any in the league. It's just all the numbers forever

1473
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:11,440
have have have accept Yeah, other than that, and you

1474
01:06:11,559 --> 01:06:17,320
let a starter go over money. So that's an f

1475
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,679
like you. You let the cost of trying to stay

1476
01:06:21,719 --> 01:06:24,480
as good as you could be prevent you from staying

1477
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,199
as good as you could be. The counter is, oh,

1478
01:06:27,199 --> 01:06:29,159
the young guys are ready. Christian Brown's going to slot

1479
01:06:29,239 --> 01:06:31,960
in there like this is you know, Caldwell Pope was

1480
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,320
just not going to be worth the money. It's sixty

1481
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,079
six million over three years, is what it took to

1482
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:39,199
get them. Like, I just talk me up from an

1483
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,480
F I know, I know, I'm breaking with our sort

1484
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,960
of format. Hi, we're going, we're going the same direction, right.

1485
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,440
We don't need to pretend like there's a lot of

1486
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:47,320
nuance to this one.

1487
01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: No, And it's my whole thing is too, is that

1488
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,760
if you I want to know, then if anyone has

1489
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:55,679
a case for why this offseason was good, average or better,

1490
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:58,000
what is it? And so the two things that I

1491
01:06:58,039 --> 01:07:01,199
think those people, insofar as they exist, would point towards

1492
01:07:01,519 --> 01:07:04,559
is the young guys already, maybe Christian Brown might be

1493
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:07,519
better defensively next year than KCP is. I'm open to that.

1494
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:09,679
You could have had both sign.

1495
01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 2: Him and trade him later if Brown is better than him, right.

1496
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: And the other thing here is they might say, well,

1497
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,559
if you're into the second apron for two or four years,

1498
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:21,079
like all this stuff happens, you figure it out later

1499
01:07:21,159 --> 01:07:24,880
when your window is right fucking now. And the other

1500
01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:27,880
I guess the third thing that they might be able

1501
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,920
to I don't really know if this would make it

1502
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:35,000
frame in like a positive light in any way. But

1503
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:37,719
if you thought KCP was like gonna slide and wasn't

1504
01:07:37,719 --> 01:07:40,480
as valuable come or through the regular season or come

1505
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,880
playoff time, I'm open to that idea. I think he

1506
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,639
becomes super valuable in the playoffs because he's someone you

1507
01:07:46,679 --> 01:07:49,960
need to defend from beyond the arc. And that would

1508
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,199
circle back to trade him and figure it out later

1509
01:07:53,679 --> 01:07:57,519
and other stuff. By the way, nothing they did makes

1510
01:07:57,599 --> 01:07:59,800
up for it. There the Reggie Jackson deal that we

1511
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,320
destroyed last year, it turns out to be even worse

1512
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:04,760
because it cost them two distant seconds to get off

1513
01:08:05,519 --> 01:08:08,880
the Dario Sharzz thing who was giving him the mini

1514
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:12,320
mL with a player option. And while I'm open to

1515
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:13,760
the idea of like, oh, this is like a very

1516
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:16,000
interesting backup big you can do. He will stretch the

1517
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,199
floor a little bit. You can use him in similar ways,

1518
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:22,119
uh maybe a minifact similar of Nikola Jokic. I get it, okay,

1519
01:08:22,119 --> 01:08:25,479
But now you've added Russell Westbrook into the equation, which

1520
01:08:26,239 --> 01:08:29,439
charitably the best way to frame it is a questionable move.

1521
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:32,760
And for all this talk about like well, look at

1522
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:35,239
some of the stuff that he could do. It's well,

1523
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:37,600
I guess we're assuming he's gonna play a ton with Jokic,

1524
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,319
and we're just assuming Michael Malone is not going to

1525
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:43,239
change his staggering patterns again at all. And like that's

1526
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:45,000
like now you're getting into Oh, so Russ is gonna

1527
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,760
play minutes with Peyton Watson and then if you do

1528
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:49,840
want to play in with Dario Sharz, how does that

1529
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:52,760
work out? And like, are you going to get enough

1530
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:54,560
spacing for a team by the way, that didn't already

1531
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,399
probably didn't take it off threes? Like how much are

1532
01:08:56,399 --> 01:08:59,239
you putting on the shoulders of the Nikole Jokich Jamal

1533
01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:02,279
Murray tumn game at this point with the current roster

1534
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:05,800
set up? And this is just like a summer of

1535
01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:10,680
terrible asset management and it like even you know, Holmes

1536
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,520
the injury and couldn't have predicted that, but that was

1537
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,039
a lot to give up. When you're limited in the assets,

1538
01:09:15,039 --> 01:09:18,199
you have to move up what about to about four spots.

1539
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:22,079
So I just was this is an F minus offseason

1540
01:09:22,079 --> 01:09:24,359
and you can't And the other thing that I think

1541
01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:26,680
people could point toward is well, like you needed to

1542
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:30,079
take the club out of Michael Malone's bag. As everyone said,

1543
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:33,199
if you can't get on the same page, that's an

1544
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:35,399
F minus if the front office and the coaching staff

1545
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,840
can't get on the same page. And by the way,

1546
01:09:38,039 --> 01:09:40,760
unless he was just blowing smoke, Michael Malone at his

1547
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,359
exit interview talked a lot. I think it was his

1548
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,239
exit like the end of season interview, talked a lot

1549
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:48,920
about maybe leaning on the starters too much towards the

1550
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,920
second half of last year. If you go back, the

1551
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,680
Denver Post had this nugget Grant Hunter Tyson and Julian

1552
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,840
Strother and I think who is the other one third

1553
01:09:59,079 --> 01:09:59,920
young guy played?

1554
01:10:00,399 --> 01:10:01,359
Speaker 2: Was that Picket?

1555
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,119
Speaker 1: I think it might have been Picket played a combined

1556
01:10:03,159 --> 01:10:06,880
thirty two point two minutes combined of non garbage time

1557
01:10:07,279 --> 01:10:09,479
like over the final forty three games. So Mike im

1558
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:13,720
alone talking about the team being gassed like made me think, okay, like, oh,

1559
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,600
this is someone who might now be prepared to develop

1560
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,359
the youth while also trying to prioritize winning. Now, I

1561
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,039
just it's not even just the Kntavious Caldwell Pope moved

1562
01:10:23,079 --> 01:10:25,239
to me. It's just so uninspiring that this is what

1563
01:10:25,279 --> 01:10:28,279
they did and then they threw like what could end

1564
01:10:28,359 --> 01:10:30,960
up being a pretty big ass grenade into the equation

1565
01:10:31,119 --> 01:10:34,439
with Russell Westbrook. Maybe it works out, but I'm sorry,

1566
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,039
that's a matter for the regrades. You don't get to

1567
01:10:37,119 --> 01:10:40,039
assume on team number eleven or whatever it is Russell

1568
01:10:40,079 --> 01:10:42,319
Westbrook that he is going to change or is going

1569
01:10:42,359 --> 01:10:44,880
to be better. The standard is the standard now for

1570
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,000
his non star minutes, and the standard has shown that, Okay,

1571
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:51,720
he'll have his moments. But it's imperfect to put it kindly,

1572
01:10:52,199 --> 01:10:55,640
and like you're already a team that doesn't have great spacing,

1573
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:59,119
but you let Kntavius callwell Pope leave and it's not

1574
01:10:59,159 --> 01:11:00,880
I know you weren't take a ton of threes, but

1575
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:03,079
like to have someone you could guard opened up things

1576
01:11:03,079 --> 01:11:04,600
for a lot of all the off ball stuff that

1577
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:07,600
you want to do. I just this is a shameful

1578
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:10,520
offseason by the Denver Nuggets. And it could have been

1579
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,960
said like you could have figured it out later. If

1580
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:14,720
you thought you couldn't be in the second apron, you

1581
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:16,359
could have moved him in the middle of the year.

1582
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,079
And if you did this too, because of the Zeke

1583
01:11:20,119 --> 01:11:22,479
Nagy extension, which you and I by the way did

1584
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,199
not like destroy And our question was we basically said, well,

1585
01:11:26,199 --> 01:11:28,239
they need money to use his trade matching, but why

1586
01:11:28,319 --> 01:11:30,720
is it so long? And like that holds true now

1587
01:11:31,079 --> 01:11:33,079
And finally I'm sorry for going so long, but this

1588
01:11:33,159 --> 01:11:35,520
is just you don't get to play the Nikole Yoki

1589
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,359
is thirty years old. The time to keep winning is now.

1590
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,720
But the other thing here is what do they do

1591
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,159
with this flexibility under the second apron? They use the

1592
01:11:44,199 --> 01:11:47,039
minimoly on Dario Sharitch. That's not worth it. I'd rather

1593
01:11:47,079 --> 01:11:49,000
have KCP and be in the second apron. And by

1594
01:11:49,039 --> 01:11:50,960
the way, guess what, you might also still have Dario

1595
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,119
Sharitz on the minimum had that happened. And two, like

1596
01:11:54,199 --> 01:11:56,439
what other moves did they make beyond that? It's just

1597
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:58,279
you could say, well, maybe they'll do something at the

1598
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:01,840
trade deadline because now they can aggregate. Bullshit, they have

1599
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:03,640
to do it first before we're gonna I'm not leaving

1600
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,079
open that possibility. This is and by the way, sorry,

1601
01:12:07,119 --> 01:12:10,279
I have another thing. They've been so inconsistent with the

1602
01:12:10,319 --> 01:12:13,000
messaging of how they justified this. First it was kind

1603
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,720
of about the shorter term, but then it was about

1604
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,560
the longer term or vice versa. It's I mean, pick

1605
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,880
a side to be stupid on either way is dumb,

1606
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:23,359
but like pick a form of dumb assery here, please.

1607
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, to try out to be is quite so versatile

1608
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:28,079
in it. I just I just think I don't have

1609
01:12:28,119 --> 01:12:30,920
a lot to add. I would just say I have

1610
01:12:31,039 --> 01:12:37,079
not yet heard the argument that there was any downside,

1611
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,239
like a realistic downside that I that actually buy of

1612
01:12:41,319 --> 01:12:43,439
not just paying what it took to cap to keep

1613
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:47,520
KCP and letting it, letting the team sort of decide

1614
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,680
whether he needs to continue to feature as a starter

1615
01:12:51,159 --> 01:12:53,439
or it's time to move him because the market told

1616
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:56,479
you what he's worth, and then you you can you

1617
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,640
which is like something like twenty plus million dollars a year.

1618
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,119
Like that's someone you can trade for positive value, and

1619
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:05,319
you just the last thing is you look at what

1620
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:09,359
other teams that are somewhat similarly situated to Denver have done.

1621
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,359
Like now Boston's a little bit of an outlier, but

1622
01:13:11,399 --> 01:13:14,399
they're they're given Sam Houser and Peyton Pritchard money, Like

1623
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,840
they're given these guys contracts that the Sons are given

1624
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:20,960
Royce O'Neil and Grayson Allen deals that like are you

1625
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,479
know those guys matter, but they're also like, well maybe

1626
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:25,760
we can trade them if we like we're hamstrung. We

1627
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,840
need salaries in this range to move Like why is

1628
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,119
Denver different? Like why not just treat CACP like Royce

1629
01:13:33,119 --> 01:13:35,079
O'Neil if if you want, like if you want to

1630
01:13:35,079 --> 01:13:38,279
frame it that way, like he's valuable that way. I

1631
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,760
just I need the case to be made to me

1632
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,680
for why there was any logic too, just specifically, the

1633
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:45,800
KCP thing is like almost the only thing I'm grading,

1634
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:47,600
which is so if you want to go f minus,

1635
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:48,119
I'm with it.

1636
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,039
Speaker 1: If we go well, and I want to make this

1637
01:13:52,119 --> 01:13:53,840
clear one more times. If we have to go back

1638
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:55,880
in a year and we see that let's say Peyton, Watson,

1639
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,720
Christian Brown, and Julius rather all just popped, that's great.

1640
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:03,560
Still could have had like there's this doesn't need to

1641
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,720
be a mutually exclusive scenario. And if your argument was, well, no,

1642
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:09,600
they wouldn't have played those guys enough of KCP was

1643
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,720
on the roster. That's also gonna be something that you

1644
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:14,000
need to dig in the organization for then, because and

1645
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:18,039
at the most fundamental level, you let one of your

1646
01:14:19,159 --> 01:14:21,079
he might be what was he their fourth monst so

1647
01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:23,760
you have Yo Kich Murray or more important? Who else

1648
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:25,039
was more important than KCP?

1649
01:14:25,159 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 2: Is it Gordon?

1650
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: So he might have been your fourth, fifth, at worst

1651
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,960
most important player and you you got nothing for him

1652
01:14:33,039 --> 01:14:36,079
leaving you got nothing, and so you could have maybe

1653
01:14:36,119 --> 01:14:39,119
signed him Christian Brown and Peyton Watson breakout. And by

1654
01:14:39,119 --> 01:14:40,920
the way, this isn't part of the grade, but it

1655
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,000
makes you a little bit uncomfortable about, well, what's gonna

1656
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:45,479
happen with Aaron Gordon next year? They just gonna decide

1657
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:49,000
like not has to be ready, right, and like there's

1658
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:52,159
his replacement. So that's really like something that makes me

1659
01:14:52,239 --> 01:14:56,560
un easy. And my final thing to you is if

1660
01:14:56,640 --> 01:14:59,960
Jamal Murray gets the mass extension, not that we can

1661
01:15:00,119 --> 01:15:01,920
go any lower, but are you gonna feel better or

1662
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,079
worse about the rope? I guess you act to feel

1663
01:15:04,079 --> 01:15:06,399
better just because it's okay they locked this guy down.

1664
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,279
The two man game between him and Yoki is still

1665
01:15:08,359 --> 01:15:11,479
just stifling. But in terms of his injuries and his

1666
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,039
inconsistent availability. And I thought the DMVR show did a

1667
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:17,520
great job recently of breaking this down about some of

1668
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,239
the comments he has made in the past. Just shows

1669
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:21,640
that this isn't someone who comes in in shape and

1670
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:23,800
decides to work himself in shape. I don't think you

1671
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,840
can feel worse about their off season. But I also

1672
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:29,039
don't view Jamal Murray as a no brainer no now

1673
01:15:29,239 --> 01:15:31,640
for the Nuggets. I guess he is, But what are

1674
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:33,239
you supposed to do as the nugget? The fact that

1675
01:15:33,279 --> 01:15:35,640
there hasn't been an extension yet to me announced, I

1676
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:38,000
keep checking my phone actually before we're getting up to this, like, oh,

1677
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,880
maybe they'll but it's so bizarre. But I didn't mean

1678
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:44,239
to hijack my own question, But do you feel how

1679
01:15:44,279 --> 01:15:46,399
do you feel about Jamal Murray getting a four year

1680
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:47,199
MAX extension?

1681
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:52,399
Speaker 2: I think I would feel kind of how you outlined it, like, Okay, good,

1682
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,279
that's locked in. They're willing to spend on somebody. That's

1683
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:58,319
a positive. But I would have a lot of questions,

1684
01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:00,439
a lot of concerns, all with the hell, with the

1685
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:03,359
possibility of decline, with how we looked in the playoffs,

1686
01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:06,359
how we looked over the summer, like all that stuff is. Yeah,

1687
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,960
not a no brainer? Is like a pretty pleasant way

1688
01:16:10,039 --> 01:16:12,279
to frame how i'd feel about about that extension.

1689
01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:16,239
Speaker 1: That was we're so used to saying nice things about

1690
01:16:16,279 --> 01:16:19,119
the Nuggets. It's been like a weird few months around

1691
01:16:19,119 --> 01:16:19,640
these parts.

1692
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, if you're good, spend the money. That's

1693
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,840
that's kind of all there is to it, all, right.

1694
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,399
So I have the Minnesota Timberwolves, I believe if we

1695
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,840
have alphabeted correctly, and I think we have starting here,

1696
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:32,600
we got Tim Connolly is going to be back for

1697
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,119
twenty four to twenty five, with an opt out for

1698
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:36,800
twenty five twenty six. So may not be there to

1699
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,159
see all those twenty thirties and twenty thirty one picks

1700
01:16:39,359 --> 01:16:42,159
go somewhere else, It'll be there at least next year.

1701
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:45,039
Chris Pnch got a four year contract extension, well deserved.

1702
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:47,600
Good for him. So the also traded We mentioned this

1703
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:50,199
with the Spurs a twenty thirty first round swap with

1704
01:16:50,239 --> 01:16:52,600
top one protection and a twenty thirty one first rounder

1705
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:54,800
for Rob Dillingham as the number eighth pick. Number eight

1706
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:58,359
pick that became Rob Dillingham traded Bobie Clintman number thirty

1707
01:16:58,399 --> 01:17:01,680
seven and Wendellmore Junior to Detroit. Drafted Terrence Shannon Junior

1708
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:03,920
at number twenty seven. Luca Garza got two years and

1709
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,479
four and a half million team auction. On the second

1710
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,039
year of that deal, Joe Ingles and PJ Doser got

1711
01:17:09,039 --> 01:17:12,600
one year minimums, Jesse Edwards and Dash Nicks got two ways,

1712
01:17:13,039 --> 01:17:16,239
So unfinished business like potential things to keep an eye on.

1713
01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:20,920
Rudy Gobert is extension eligible? Is that coming? Just in

1714
01:17:21,239 --> 01:17:25,279
terms of departures Monte Morris, Kyle Anderson, Jordan McLaughlin to Phoenix,

1715
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:30,640
Golden State, and Sacramento respectively. So Dan kind of a

1716
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:32,680
big swing or like a I don't know, a surprising

1717
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,520
swing at least on draft night for the Dillingham pick.

1718
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:37,640
That's the big business here and I think a lot

1719
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,000
of our grade has to focus on that, doesn't it.

1720
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. I'm torn between the risk of it

1721
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,600
all and then I just so appreciate the sentiment, especially

1722
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,399
coming off of a team with the Nuggets that elected

1723
01:17:51,439 --> 01:17:54,960
not to double down on their roster and it's just

1724
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:56,920
but like Minnesota is kind of doing the same thing,

1725
01:17:57,039 --> 01:17:58,880
like over banking on the young, but it wasn't at

1726
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,680
the expense of the corps that was already in place,

1727
01:18:02,159 --> 01:18:06,079
and I really respect it. I don't think it's something

1728
01:18:06,079 --> 01:18:08,199
which is why I was a little curious that, okay,

1729
01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:11,640
So aside from Dillingham, and you have Edwards and Conley.

1730
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,239
By the way, when Conley played without Edwards last year,

1731
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:18,640
the Timperles offense was in the thirtieth percentile. So he's

1732
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:20,600
only getting older. I think he's still a good player,

1733
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,119
but like so now it's tied to Dillingham kind of

1734
01:18:23,159 --> 01:18:24,760
needs to be good right out of the gate, or

1735
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,199
you're looking at PJ. Doser or Nikhil Alexander Walker have

1736
01:18:28,279 --> 01:18:30,359
to kind of fill in those gaps. So there's a

1737
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:32,479
risk there. And you have Joe Angles of course too,

1738
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:35,880
but he's he's slowed down for sure. And by the way,

1739
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:40,279
on the court, I like the Terrence Shannon pick as well,

1740
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,960
So like I appreciate everything they did. And by the way,

1741
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,199
getting Tim Connelly to come back amid the uncertainty of

1742
01:18:45,239 --> 01:18:47,960
what's happening with control of the franchise not a small

1743
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:51,720
deal either, So I appreciate everything they did. I just

1744
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:56,119
wonder if you did, like maybe, okay, a few years

1745
01:18:56,159 --> 01:18:57,680
from now we look at this and say, like, oh,

1746
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:00,520
Rob Dillingham turned to exactly who you thought he was

1747
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:03,279
going to. But is that at all gonna come certainly

1748
01:19:03,279 --> 01:19:04,560
in the regular season I don't. I don't want to

1749
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:06,119
say it'll come at the expense of wins. But if

1750
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:10,359
you're going to expend this many assets to get a rookie,

1751
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:12,640
my assumption is that he is going to play and

1752
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:14,479
you're gonna have to stomach some growing pains, And my

1753
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,399
assumption there would then be the non Anthey Edwards minutes

1754
01:19:17,399 --> 01:19:20,600
are going to get worse. So did you concede some

1755
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,079
playoff positioning there? And more importantly, I don't think they

1756
01:19:23,119 --> 01:19:25,399
care about that because they're really good. Is he gonna

1757
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:27,720
be ready to play a part in your postseason rotation?

1758
01:19:28,079 --> 01:19:31,039
Because if he's not, now you get into it. Like

1759
01:19:31,079 --> 01:19:34,039
that's where okay, PJ. Doser and Joe Ingles like that

1760
01:19:34,279 --> 01:19:38,079
they become more important, more integral to your postseason rotation

1761
01:19:38,079 --> 01:19:38,720
than I think you would.

1762
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:42,359
Speaker 2: Like. Yeah, there's a little bit of a safety net

1763
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,159
because like, you really didn't get much from Montey Morris

1764
01:19:45,239 --> 01:19:47,199
and you could say, well, Joe Ingles might be in

1765
01:19:47,279 --> 01:19:49,239
terms of like what he actually provides this year, Joe

1766
01:19:49,319 --> 01:19:51,720
Ingles might provide more playmaking help than Monte Morris did

1767
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,279
last year. That wouldn't be hard considering how little he played.

1768
01:19:55,119 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 1: Kyle Anderson playoff rotat and shorten up. I guess is

1769
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,600
the thing that I'm just that where it's okay, maybe

1770
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:03,159
Rob Dillingham's role shrinks, But is that just because they're

1771
01:20:03,159 --> 01:20:04,920
playing their starters forty minutes a game.

1772
01:20:05,319 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 2: Well, right, but it's just to finish the point. Like

1773
01:20:08,039 --> 01:20:10,760
Kyle Anderson's also gone, and one of his chief skills

1774
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:12,920
is like he can be a playmaker from the forward spot.

1775
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:15,600
You don't have that, so, like net, your playmaking is

1776
01:20:16,079 --> 01:20:17,760
you have less of it than you did last year.

1777
01:20:18,159 --> 01:20:20,600
And this is a team that like phenomenal defense, the

1778
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:23,239
offense was the problem. I think that's a risky game

1779
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:27,399
to play now if Dillingham the Wolves must believe that

1780
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:32,239
Dillingham is at worst a really good, high scoring six

1781
01:20:32,319 --> 01:20:34,239
man that gives back a lot on defense, then they

1782
01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:36,000
don't care about that because their defense behind him is

1783
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,039
gonna be really good. Like that, he has to ad

1784
01:20:38,079 --> 01:20:41,760
minimum be a really good bench scorer who you can

1785
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,000
give the ball to as a second unit leader. That's

1786
01:20:45,039 --> 01:20:48,680
a huge ask for like any rookie, let alone one

1787
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:50,479
that you know he's the eighth pick and a bad

1788
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:54,319
draft like that. It's not like it's just it's it's

1789
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:58,000
I think the expectation should be that Dillingham actually will

1790
01:20:58,039 --> 01:21:00,479
not be able to do that this year. So that

1791
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,680
doesn't mean it's a bad trade because you have to think,

1792
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,239
you know, two, three, five, seven years down the road,

1793
01:21:05,239 --> 01:21:07,560
I guess when you're talking about a lottery pick. But

1794
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,319
for where the Wolves are now, like that's a huge

1795
01:21:10,399 --> 01:21:12,880
r Conley just cannot play as much as he did

1796
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,920
last year, I don't think. And unless you're gonna ask

1797
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,800
Alexander Walker, you mentioned all this, like there are other

1798
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,239
more safety nets. Alexander Walker like kind of came into

1799
01:21:21,239 --> 01:21:22,880
the league as sort of a point guard and like

1800
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:25,119
has been tried at that and might be abble to

1801
01:21:25,159 --> 01:21:26,880
do more of that, And we want the ball in

1802
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:29,079
Ant's hands more. Maybe he does more on the you know,

1803
01:21:29,119 --> 01:21:32,680
primary playmaking. There's ways to go. It's just it's just

1804
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:36,760
such a high risk move if you care about the

1805
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,920
end of the decade, which maybe that's the thing to

1806
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,039
talk about. Is like I don't think the Wolves do,

1807
01:21:41,119 --> 01:21:43,680
because they know this team will not look like it

1808
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:47,479
does today in like three years, let alone six or whatever.

1809
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:50,199
So maybe that's how we we could view the Dillingham

1810
01:21:50,199 --> 01:21:53,760
trade as like a positive, like for sure, because otherwise

1811
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,439
it's it's it's almost like an incomplete and with with

1812
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:57,800
a lot of downside, right.

1813
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:02,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's it's also just like you're right to

1814
01:22:02,159 --> 01:22:04,760
view it through the longer lens, because you could say

1815
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,520
they gave up those assets, but there was no way

1816
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:08,800
for them to use those assets on someone who provides

1817
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,439
more immediate help in a way had to be done

1818
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,000
this way right, in a way that like didn't cost

1819
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,840
them someone who they need and so like, and then

1820
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:20,319
also like it does matter that I guess you can't

1821
01:22:20,319 --> 01:22:23,239
say they like spent, but they expended assets more than

1822
01:22:23,279 --> 01:22:25,880
they did money. But like the question was especially amid

1823
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:30,600
the ownership Tobacco, would they move a player who is

1824
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:32,399
good and it would make them worse because whether it

1825
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:35,479
was Nasried, whether it was Karl Anthony Towns, you could

1826
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,439
never really come up with a trade that really even

1827
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:41,239
rebalanced the roster, let alone made them better. So I

1828
01:22:41,279 --> 01:22:44,119
do think they deserve credit for not going down that road.

1829
01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:45,600
And you could say, well, why are we crediting them

1830
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,760
for those like well, because other teams, the Clippers, the Warriors,

1831
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,720
like the Nuggets, like they shied away from doing this

1832
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:53,880
stuff and so like the Temperleves did not shy away

1833
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,000
from keeping this together. Like their tax bill is going

1834
01:22:56,039 --> 01:22:57,039
to be in the nine figures.

1835
01:22:57,239 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1836
01:22:58,039 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 1: That's so we have questions about how long they're prepared

1837
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:03,960
to float it, but so they deserve credit for that.

1838
01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:06,439
The Rob Dillingham of it all, it's so complicated. I

1839
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,600
think I end up liking it because especially when you

1840
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:11,520
wade through the lens that or view it, excuse me,

1841
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,800
through the lens that you are because even if he

1842
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:16,399
doesn't help next year, you are, like Anthony Edwards is

1843
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:18,840
very young. So I guess the two ways looking at

1844
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,720
it are are you kind of trying to plan around

1845
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:22,840
for as he enters his prime in those years or

1846
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,760
did you just outlay all these assets at a time

1847
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,359
when it's okay, like now you've exhausted your coffers before

1848
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:30,640
Edwards even hits his prime. So there are probably a

1849
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:33,359
bunch of different ways to look at it. I'm very

1850
01:23:33,399 --> 01:23:36,600
curiously where your grade ends up being. And also I

1851
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:38,119
think there are some people that are just gonna assume

1852
01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:39,800
that Rob Dillingham is gonna be great for them right

1853
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,239
out of the gate. You would need to like come

1854
01:23:42,239 --> 01:23:44,520
at me with the list of examples like recent example

1855
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:47,399
the rookies who went into good teams and played these

1856
01:23:47,399 --> 01:23:50,079
pivotabal roles. And I actually think what Dillingham does one

1857
01:23:50,119 --> 01:23:51,880
of the things I think might be most valuable. So

1858
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:53,920
there's the shooting that scales to on and off the ball,

1859
01:23:54,039 --> 01:23:56,079
like he gets off the ball so quickly, like he

1860
01:23:56,119 --> 01:23:58,439
doesn't need to really just meander with it, and that's

1861
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:00,800
so good for their offense. At the same time, if

1862
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,319
he's not going to play your major role, though you

1863
01:24:02,319 --> 01:24:05,159
didn't improve your floor spacing, then at all, okay, Joe

1864
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:08,239
angles over Kyle Anderson a floor spacing upgrade. But in

1865
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:10,760
terms of just volume, like how much volume were you're

1866
01:24:10,760 --> 01:24:12,279
getting out of him? And this was a team that

1867
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:15,119
they did shoot almost forty percent from three, like thirty

1868
01:24:15,199 --> 01:24:17,079
nine percent on above the break threes, I guess that

1869
01:24:17,079 --> 01:24:19,560
that probably, I mean, Karnthley Towns is typically really good

1870
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,039
at those. But in terms of they were twentieth I

1871
01:24:22,079 --> 01:24:24,760
think in three point at tempt eight. If Dillingham isn't

1872
01:24:25,319 --> 01:24:27,119
who you need him to be long term out of

1873
01:24:27,119 --> 01:24:29,079
the gate, I don't know that they can meaningfully nudge

1874
01:24:29,159 --> 01:24:33,760
up that volume. And so I again I'm so interesting

1875
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:35,479
where your grade comes in at for this team.

1876
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:40,239
Speaker 2: So I think what I'm kind of settling in at

1877
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:44,159
is I appreciate, especially because we just did Denver. I

1878
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:48,840
appreciate the ambition and the like focus on the timeline

1879
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,399
and the goal that matters, which is next year. And

1880
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,640
like you said this, I think this might be maybe

1881
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,640
the most important way to frame it. They couldn't really

1882
01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,479
get this type of guy talking about Dillingham any other way,

1883
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,079
and so like, kudos to the Wolves for saying, like, well,

1884
01:25:03,079 --> 01:25:04,600
if this is what it takes to get the guy

1885
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:06,760
we need, and this is the only way to make

1886
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,800
it happen, we will just give up that swap in

1887
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,920
that distance first, because one who cares about the twenty thirties,

1888
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:14,880
if all the decision makers in the team are probably

1889
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:17,199
saying to themselves and too, like this is what it's

1890
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:19,800
going to take. Like our situation is different from everybody else's.

1891
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,640
We don't have a bunch of the resources that other

1892
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:23,600
teams do. This is how we have to do it.

1893
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:28,800
That's separate from saying Dillingham's definitely going to be good

1894
01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:31,039
or great or what they need him to be. This

1895
01:25:31,199 --> 01:25:34,159
is just the only recourse they had, So I respect it. Right, Like,

1896
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:37,199
I think to be consistent, we have to say like

1897
01:25:37,279 --> 01:25:40,199
good for you guys and skew positive. The other thing

1898
01:25:40,199 --> 01:25:42,920
I was thinking about is if all this results in

1899
01:25:43,039 --> 01:25:45,119
is Anthony Edwards has to be on the ball more like,

1900
01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:47,840
isn't that the endgame with this team anyway? You know, Like,

1901
01:25:48,319 --> 01:25:50,600
isn't that where you hope to have to go? Where

1902
01:25:51,039 --> 01:25:53,880
you play different you play lineups like look, okay, I

1903
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:55,920
hate to do this, but he's getting all the Michael

1904
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,399
Jordan comparisons. He's not Michael Jordan. Some of those Bulls

1905
01:25:58,399 --> 01:26:01,399
teams started Ron Harper at ute unquote point guard because

1906
01:26:01,399 --> 01:26:03,800
Michael Jordan Scottie Pippen could do the ball handling stuff.

1907
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:06,680
Like if Edwards is that type of lead guard, maybe

1908
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,479
you get away with like something other than a conventional

1909
01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:11,359
playmaker next to him, and maybe this is the year

1910
01:26:11,399 --> 01:26:13,079
you start fast tracking that development.

1911
01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:15,119
Speaker 1: I guess where I would have paused there is like

1912
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:16,880
I'm at the point where I want to see Anthony

1913
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,199
Edwards's role get easier, not harder, because unless his shot,

1914
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:23,640
like his shot selection is just okay, he's great and

1915
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:25,760
making difficult shots, but it's can we get to a

1916
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,479
point where like that doesn't need to be the offense

1917
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,760
and can we get him easier shots? And the theory

1918
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,239
behind Dillingham long term is like, oh, he should be

1919
01:26:35,239 --> 01:26:37,920
able to do that again, I just don't know. That

1920
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:40,359
might not be a this season thing. And you just

1921
01:26:40,359 --> 01:26:41,760
said something that made me think of this too, when

1922
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,079
you were talking about they didn't have any other recourse there.

1923
01:26:45,119 --> 01:26:47,079
They were almost too good, like you couldn't do what

1924
01:26:47,119 --> 01:26:49,439
the Bucks did, Like why couldn't they have been the

1925
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:51,640
team to get Gary Trenchun You're at the minimum? Okay,

1926
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:53,199
tell me who you're pulling out of the starting or

1927
01:26:53,199 --> 01:26:55,840
the closing lineup to make sure that Gary Trenjunior gets minutes, right,

1928
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:58,159
you didn't have that spot available. So that's another in

1929
01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:01,199
theory resource that wasn't available you because you can't sell

1930
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:04,039
players on these guaranteed high volume roles. And yes, it's

1931
01:27:04,039 --> 01:27:05,840
easier to saying like, well you just bench Mike Commley

1932
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:07,760
and put Garret Trun Junior on the floor. I was

1933
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,399
just bemoaning, I want Anthony Edward's role to get easier.

1934
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:14,199
Garret Trenchuner doesn't pass the ball, Like that's just one example,

1935
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:16,079
but it made me think they didn't even really like

1936
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,760
they get a minimum like Joe Engles because he doesn't

1937
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:21,239
need to be guaranteed any any type of role. So

1938
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:23,520
I actually think I'm coming in at a B plus

1939
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:26,840
and a lot of that is probably rooted in respect

1940
01:27:27,279 --> 01:27:30,279
and appreciation of what they're trying to do. But we

1941
01:27:30,399 --> 01:27:32,199
have to look at it. I guess you would have

1942
01:27:32,279 --> 01:27:35,520
to tell me. I'm not saying you a collective view,

1943
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:37,680
is it? Well, like, oh, they did get rid of

1944
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:39,840
Wendell Moore junior and use Bobie Clintman, who's like a

1945
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,640
floor spacing big. It's okay. Well they have Karl Anthony

1946
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:44,720
Towns and Nasried and by the way, Leonard Miller on

1947
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,319
this team too. So number thirty seven is not nothing

1948
01:27:47,359 --> 01:27:49,239
for a team that could use cause control assets. But

1949
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,479
relative to the resources that were at their disposal, what

1950
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:58,159
is there not to like about? Like this season? This

1951
01:27:58,199 --> 01:27:59,840
offseason excuse, it just has.

1952
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:03,199
Speaker 2: To be uncertainty on whether it was worth it for Dillingham.

1953
01:28:03,239 --> 01:28:04,600
And so I was going to come in at a

1954
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:06,319
B minus And if you're at a B plus, maybe

1955
01:28:06,319 --> 01:28:08,640
we settle at a BEE just because I have any

1956
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,880
concession to me? Yeah, I think I think that feels

1957
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,319
about right. It's just I mean, really, I'm I'm almost

1958
01:28:16,359 --> 01:28:19,159
only grading the Dillingham deal and it's just I have

1959
01:28:19,239 --> 01:28:21,439
so many questions about it. But again, we got to

1960
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:23,800
be consistent because we kill teams when they don't like

1961
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:26,359
really go for it when they're this good. And the

1962
01:28:26,399 --> 01:28:28,319
Wolves did what they had to do to try to

1963
01:28:28,319 --> 01:28:29,840
get better, Like that's worth.

1964
01:28:30,039 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 1: I mean, unless you were going to attach nas Reed

1965
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:33,960
to those picks, then who's the player that you're getting

1966
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,840
back where it's like that would have been makes way more.

1967
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:38,760
I guess in theory you could have done that, but

1968
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:40,640
I would need to see, like give me the suggestions

1969
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,600
of players that who were realistically available for that. So

1970
01:28:44,039 --> 01:28:46,520
it rooted in appreciation, but I'm going to be plus,

1971
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,479
we settle on a Bee as a podcast. Next up

1972
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:53,359
grant Are I think they're they're my Oklahoma City Thunder.

1973
01:28:53,359 --> 01:28:55,840
I was glad, let's take it for this team. Uh

1974
01:28:56,000 --> 01:29:00,359
So they drafted Nicolo Topic at number twelve. They traded

1975
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:04,159
Josh Giddy for Alex Caruso. They traded five second round

1976
01:29:04,199 --> 01:29:07,199
picks for Dylan Jones, who was number twenty six overall.

1977
01:29:08,279 --> 01:29:11,319
They signed Isaiah Hartenstein three years, eighty seven million dollars

1978
01:29:11,359 --> 01:29:15,359
there's a team option on year three, and Isaiah Hartenstein's

1979
01:29:15,359 --> 01:29:17,920
like first team all. He's younger than you think he

1980
01:29:18,039 --> 01:29:20,920
is in case anybody cares Isaiah Joe. So they declined

1981
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:22,720
his team option and then signed him for four years

1982
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,520
forty eight million, and there's a team option on that

1983
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:27,840
final season. They did the same thing with Aaron Wagans,

1984
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:29,840
declined his team option, then sign him for five years

1985
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:32,960
forty seven million with a team option on that final year.

1986
01:29:33,359 --> 01:29:35,720
They basically there was a couple of transaction involved, but

1987
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:39,159
they turned Lindy Waters the third into AJ Mitchell, who

1988
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:42,039
was the number thirty eight pick. And that's really it,

1989
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:44,600
Like there's no I mean like they have AJ Mitchell's

1990
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:46,079
now in a two way for anybody who cares. But

1991
01:29:46,319 --> 01:29:48,279
that is the that is a meat. That is their

1992
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:51,800
entire offseason. Really grant how you feel about the Okama

1993
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,000
City Thunder. This was the team all alluding to where

1994
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:55,479
I said when we looked at the MAVs and the

1995
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:58,960
Sixers offseason, it like they're the team that rivals.

1996
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:01,520
Speaker 2: I think those two feeling pretty good, feeling pretty good,

1997
01:30:02,359 --> 01:30:06,039
added two guys that could conceivably close. Got off Josh

1998
01:30:06,119 --> 01:30:10,600
Giddy ahead of extension eligibility didn't have to. It could have,

1999
01:30:10,920 --> 01:30:13,520
but ultimately didn't give up any of their million future.

2000
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,840
First to get Alex Caruso, who's just such a plus

2001
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:19,760
defensive ad to this team that already has great defensive players.

2002
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:22,479
And then you get the center you need one in Hartenstein,

2003
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,600
who like, by the way, Hartenstein obviously gonna help the rebounding,

2004
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,439
going to help the interior defense, but like nobody seems

2005
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:32,159
to remember that this guy is like really capable as

2006
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,359
as a secondary facilitator, whether it's like a short role

2007
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,520
or just as like that's a real he has that ability.

2008
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:40,600
Like remember that like chunk of a season where he

2009
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:43,960
played with the Nuggets and like everyone was joking about like,

2010
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,560
oh he's absorbing the Jokic. No, he's like a good

2011
01:30:46,680 --> 01:30:48,800
passer that you can use in that role. Which is

2012
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:50,239
just another wrinkle to a team that.

2013
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,600
Speaker 1: Which is you know what's kind of scary is so

2014
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:55,760
Oklahoma City spaces the floor so well, but they take

2015
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:58,079
fewer threes than you think. It's kind of like the

2016
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,880
like the Dynastic Warriors, where this is like the greatest

2017
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:03,800
shooting team all times, Like, well, they're actually not taking

2018
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:06,119
as many threes. As you think they are. And now

2019
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:07,840
if you if I say a heart's started operating in

2020
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:10,199
that like I would assume their corner three point attempt

2021
01:31:10,199 --> 01:31:12,239
where he should like skyrocket when he's.

2022
01:31:12,119 --> 01:31:14,960
Speaker 2: On the Yeah. Well, and like the reason those Warriors

2023
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:16,800
teams didn't take a bunch of threes is because everyone

2024
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,239
was like, well, they could get layups because they had

2025
01:31:19,279 --> 01:31:21,199
so much talent in good passing. It's like, we'll just

2026
01:31:21,239 --> 01:31:23,439
take layups instead. Do you want to top lock all

2027
01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:25,520
the shooters and you want to like sell out to

2028
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:27,960
not get It's like, okay, why can't the Thunder do that?

2029
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,199
I mean they don't have the shooting personnel obviously nobody

2030
01:31:30,399 --> 01:31:33,920
ever has or probably ever will again. But like there's

2031
01:31:34,039 --> 01:31:36,159
there's a scenario where like obviously he's going to help

2032
01:31:36,199 --> 01:31:38,800
on the boards and just in the heft departments, which

2033
01:31:38,880 --> 01:31:40,880
is what everybody talked about, is like, what's the one

2034
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,439
weakness to the Thunder have he will help there. I

2035
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:46,279
don't think his ability to help this offense is being

2036
01:31:46,319 --> 01:31:47,079
talked about enough.

2037
01:31:47,359 --> 01:31:49,560
Speaker 1: And by the way, he can he did this before

2038
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:52,159
he got to like he can take the occasional three.

2039
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:55,359
Speaker 2: More power to him. I mean, like again, I just

2040
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:58,000
I think, now we don't want to get too too

2041
01:31:58,079 --> 01:31:59,720
crazy about it, but like he's going to help on

2042
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:04,039
both Oh, can I ask you a question discussed? Who

2043
01:32:04,079 --> 01:32:04,199
do you.

2044
01:32:04,239 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 1: Think ends up being and I know the salaries imply

2045
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,079
one thing, or but who winds up being more valuable

2046
01:32:09,159 --> 01:32:11,520
to this team? Alex Caruso or Isaiah Hartenstein.

2047
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 2: I mean, normally you'd say Caruso just because he is

2048
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,199
elite at just as a perimeter defender, disruptor. But you

2049
01:32:18,279 --> 01:32:20,399
still you got are you got Dort, you got Jilen Williams,

2050
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:23,640
you got Sga was a really great defensive player last year.

2051
01:32:23,720 --> 01:32:26,000
So I guess it's probably Hartenstein.

2052
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:27,560
Speaker 1: Uh I disagree?

2053
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,199
Speaker 2: I don't know, Well, so why is it Caruso you think?

2054
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 1: I think because he's to me Chet Holmgren. They view

2055
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:37,760
him as a center. And so just like inherently when

2056
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:40,079
you're playing Isaiah Hartenstein, there's a trickle down effect of

2057
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,600
is Chet in his best role? And then who are

2058
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:45,920
you yanking off? Where it's like Caruso comes in and

2059
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:48,319
it's okay, let's just say you insert him for lou

2060
01:32:48,399 --> 01:32:52,319
Dort and it's okay, you got better shooting and the

2061
01:32:52,399 --> 01:32:55,319
defense is about net even there and so I look

2062
01:32:55,359 --> 01:32:58,159
at that and I think that you make more stylistic

2063
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,680
concessions with Isaiah Hartenstein than you do with Caruso. And

2064
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,199
I think I'll say it this way because I believe

2065
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:06,079
that they viewed Chet as a center. I just think

2066
01:33:06,079 --> 01:33:09,119
Cruso is going to wind up playing in more closing lineups.

2067
01:33:09,439 --> 01:33:11,880
Speaker 2: I think I think that's fair. What I would say

2068
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:17,600
is like Hartenstein is the guy that gives them dimensions

2069
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,279
that critics they had said they lacked, which is just

2070
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,479
the need. They need a real big guy down there,

2071
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:25,720
and you can get away with one of those if hardened.

2072
01:33:26,079 --> 01:33:29,520
If Chet is spacing as a quote unquote for I

2073
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:33,960
guess so, I just think Hartenstein allows them to be

2074
01:33:34,159 --> 01:33:36,800
different than they were last year, whereas Caruso kind of

2075
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:39,720
allows them to be maybe depending on how you view

2076
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,159
him versus Dort overall like a slightly better version of

2077
01:33:43,239 --> 01:33:45,359
what they of the same thing, if that you know

2078
01:33:45,399 --> 01:33:48,399
what I mean. Like, So, yeah, I guess the case

2079
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:50,640
for Crusoe is that just like that, dude's just better

2080
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,119
than lou Dort and in the ways that really matter

2081
01:33:53,199 --> 01:33:54,720
for the thunder, So you could be right. I just

2082
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:57,960
think Hartenstein adds I think they sought after they sawt

2083
01:33:58,039 --> 01:34:02,920
him so uh vigorously because he like gives them a

2084
01:34:03,039 --> 01:34:05,600
chance to be different in ways that will matter against

2085
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:07,960
certain teams in the high stakes games they want to play.

2086
01:34:08,039 --> 01:34:10,680
But that's all to say they got both. They didn't

2087
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:14,720
have to choose, and then they get that they have

2088
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,479
to give up to get hold on let me uh

2089
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:18,880
oh right, not any of them?

2090
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:19,840
Speaker 1: Two?

2091
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah? None, And then Wiggins and Joe those are just

2092
01:34:23,399 --> 01:34:26,199
like if you wanted to criticize the Thunder for like,

2093
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:28,880
you know, you don't have enough mid tier salaries to

2094
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:31,359
trade on like good players, Like okay, well there's two

2095
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,560
guys that are actually really good and now they're trade assets,

2096
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:35,840
Like what are we doing?

2097
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:36,199
Speaker 1: This is?

2098
01:34:36,279 --> 01:34:38,319
Speaker 2: This isn't a plus? Well, we can't go anywhere else?

2099
01:34:38,319 --> 01:34:38,520
Can we?

2100
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:41,359
Speaker 1: One critique I have is my actual biggest worry for

2101
01:34:41,479 --> 01:34:44,560
them was not what everyone else was. I thought they

2102
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:48,960
needed another shot creator type who wasn't Josh, Like, someone

2103
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:51,319
who could space the floor but also set up people

2104
01:34:51,399 --> 01:34:54,520
and had more. It wasn't just a straight downhill type

2105
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:56,920
of playmaking or shot creation. It was had some directionality,

2106
01:34:57,000 --> 01:35:00,359
jiggle and joggle. My whole thing is, though we're just

2107
01:35:00,359 --> 01:35:02,159
gonna sit here and pretend that Jay Dob's not gonna

2108
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:04,199
get better after he just got better from year one,

2109
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:06,319
and like the bar for him from year one to

2110
01:35:06,399 --> 01:35:08,399
year two, it wasn't the typical oh this dude, like

2111
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:11,640
the bar was so high already, and you saw some

2112
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,000
more of that directionality from him. And I think the playoffs,

2113
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:16,600
like the fact. I view it as the fact that

2114
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:18,800
he had to go through that those playoffs in year two.

2115
01:35:19,119 --> 01:35:20,600
I'd be terrified if I was the rest of the

2116
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,000
leak for what he's gonna come with in terms of counters.

2117
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:26,479
And but aside from that, I think you I also

2118
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:28,840
believe that Chet Holmgren can do more stuff.

2119
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:31,039
Speaker 2: And that there's gonna say I feel like it's a

2120
01:35:31,079 --> 01:35:33,800
little hot taky, but I think Chet has like way

2121
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,399
more in his bag as a as a play starter

2122
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:38,479
like initiator than we've seen so far.

2123
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:40,199
Speaker 1: Can we can we get out in front of the

2124
01:35:40,359 --> 01:35:42,279
like they need to throw the ball in the post

2125
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:45,199
to Chet and let him punish mismatches discourse, though it

2126
01:35:45,239 --> 01:35:47,119
could come in the form of like, no, let him

2127
01:35:47,119 --> 01:35:49,680
get to his floater off of drives more and the

2128
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:51,079
space is gonna be up. But or can he do

2129
01:35:51,199 --> 01:35:53,560
the Porzingia stuff where it's like catch the ball face

2130
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:55,359
up and just fire off a jumper because he he's

2131
01:35:55,399 --> 01:35:58,079
fucking taller than almost anyone else. And yeah, it'd be

2132
01:35:58,119 --> 01:35:59,600
cool to see him like develop like sort of the

2133
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,279
turnaround and the fadeaways. More so I'm with you. I

2134
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:04,600
just don't need to see they're not gonna do it.

2135
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:06,680
But they're not gonna like, you know, put Chet at

2136
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,600
the elbows and let like twelve seconds. Like he's not

2137
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:10,880
trying to back down people, even if he got a

2138
01:36:10,920 --> 01:36:13,760
little bit stronger. So I think he could improve. But

2139
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:15,760
if I had to pick an area of concern and

2140
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,439
you could say that, well, Aaron Wiggins provides like a

2141
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:21,479
little of that. But it's just like getting to lineups.

2142
01:36:22,039 --> 01:36:23,840
This is what's specific about it is you need that

2143
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,319
shot creator to fit in what profiles has their best lineups.

2144
01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:30,600
Aeron Wiggins is very good, but like he's not someone

2145
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:34,399
that you're predominantly gonna close with. But I can't. I

2146
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:36,760
don't know how you critique them for like that's just

2147
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:39,680
me splitting hairs and it's if you want the solution,

2148
01:36:40,359 --> 01:36:42,600
it's probably on the roster in the form of Chet

2149
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:43,720
homegun and Jail Williams.

2150
01:36:44,239 --> 01:36:46,319
Speaker 2: We didn't even mention and this isn't an off season thing,

2151
01:36:46,359 --> 01:36:49,039
but we didn't even mention Cason Wallace that dude's gonna

2152
01:36:49,039 --> 01:36:51,239
get better, like I don't know at what, but something

2153
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:55,239
several somethings. So he doesn't look like he wants to

2154
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:58,680
fill that role. No, I like, I don't know, maybe

2155
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:01,680
he can. It's very possible he may not have to.

2156
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,199
Speaker 1: And by the way, do you know the answer just

2157
01:37:04,319 --> 01:37:08,159
might not play this season in Nicole and Topina. We

2158
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:10,079
can't grade the pick like he just I think it

2159
01:37:10,199 --> 01:37:12,359
was a very nice flyer for the spot. But do

2160
01:37:12,439 --> 01:37:14,319
you remember when we were talking about it and I said,

2161
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:16,760
from what I've watched of him, I don't know what

2162
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:19,720
the outcome is this, but he there's just like mannerisms

2163
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:21,560
when he's on the ball that reminds me of Shay

2164
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:24,079
And I'm like, now, this dude just gets to play

2165
01:37:24,279 --> 01:37:25,359
or learn from Shay.

2166
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,760
Speaker 2: Like what we're doing here, it's it's an A plus

2167
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:30,119
is what we're doing. That's what we're giving me.

2168
01:37:30,399 --> 01:37:34,319
Speaker 1: The skateboard kid is standing the thunder again, so commenters

2169
01:37:34,399 --> 01:37:36,920
can get mad about that. Accordingly, it was so what

2170
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:39,840
do you think, like b minus C plus yeah forgive

2171
01:37:39,920 --> 01:37:43,000
or take oh ay plus plus plus for the thunder

2172
01:37:43,159 --> 01:37:46,279
plus maximum pluses plus with a little like repeating sign

2173
01:37:46,359 --> 01:37:46,920
over the plus.

2174
01:37:47,800 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 2: Portland Trailblazers are next. I'll take them. They're mine, They're yours.

2175
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:55,439
There everybody's drafted Donovan Clinging at number seven. Traded number fourteen,

2176
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:58,600
which became bub Carrington and Malcolm Brogden and a twenty

2177
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:01,399
nine first rounder which will be the second most favorable

2178
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,720
of their own Boston and Milwaukee's to the Washington Wizards

2179
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:08,600
for Danny Avdia. Very interesting trade. Traded number forty with it,

2180
01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:10,920
which was also a Guadaro for number fifty two, which

2181
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:13,600
is Quenton Post, which they traded for cash. I think

2182
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:15,359
the Warriors ended up with Posts by the way.

2183
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:17,199
Speaker 1: Just they did, which was funny because they traded that

2184
01:38:17,279 --> 01:38:20,119
pick initially and then it ended up back to them.

2185
01:38:21,039 --> 01:38:25,039
Speaker 2: Circle of Life picked up Dolana Benton's team option. DeVante

2186
01:38:25,159 --> 01:38:27,640
Graham is on board for a one year minimum. Signed

2187
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:32,600
Justin and Iah and Bryce McGowan's to two ways. So, Dan,

2188
01:38:33,359 --> 01:38:35,279
what are our thoughts on the Portland Trailblazers. You want

2189
01:38:35,319 --> 01:38:37,840
to start with drafting the fourteenth center for the roster

2190
01:38:38,079 --> 01:38:41,159
or this really interesting trade that got them Dannyavdia, But

2191
01:38:41,279 --> 01:38:41,880
at what cost?

2192
01:38:42,279 --> 01:38:44,560
Speaker 1: I will say, I would have to go back and

2193
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,640
edit some of my thoughts. I had un Donovan Clinging

2194
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:49,880
pre draft. I like him a lot better now, but

2195
01:38:50,039 --> 01:38:51,199
this roster's just so.

2196
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:54,079
Speaker 2: Confusing to me.

2197
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:56,760
Speaker 1: And I understand the rebuildings, so it doesn't necessarily have

2198
01:38:56,840 --> 01:38:59,520
to matter, and I think they could. Is this a

2199
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:01,800
team or is this just me? I don't know that

2200
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:03,319
I've talked to you about this. Could they be like

2201
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,119
sneaky good defensively if everybody's healthy because you have Clinging,

2202
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,359
you've eighton. If Robert Williams the third is healthy, plus Grant,

2203
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,760
you have Thible, you have Denny Avdia now as well

2204
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,479
Delano Banton. They picked up his team options, So you're

2205
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:19,079
still relying on Sharp and Scoot, which could hurt you,

2206
01:39:19,239 --> 01:39:21,479
and then Simon's of course, But like if if Sharper

2207
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:23,840
Scoot specifically get any better on the defensive end. I

2208
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,159
look at this team and I'm like, maybe they blow

2209
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:27,920
it up if this happens. But if you told me

2210
01:39:27,960 --> 01:39:30,239
they were fifteenth or better in points allowed per possession,

2211
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,000
I don't think I would push back against them.

2212
01:39:33,039 --> 01:39:34,479
Speaker 2: Am I just am I out of my mind? You know,

2213
01:39:35,079 --> 01:39:37,680
I think I guess what I would say is if

2214
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:40,720
they are really good defensively, it's either a really good

2215
01:39:40,800 --> 01:39:43,960
sign or a really bad sign for their young guards,

2216
01:39:44,039 --> 01:39:46,680
because it either means that, oh my god, like Scoot

2217
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,199
and Simon's and sharp can are all guarding, or it

2218
01:39:49,279 --> 01:39:51,840
means like those guys aren't playing that much, because that's

2219
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:54,680
the only other way because the point of attack, based

2220
01:39:54,720 --> 01:39:56,439
on the track records of all three of those guys

2221
01:39:56,520 --> 01:39:58,119
so far, point of attack defense is going to be

2222
01:39:58,119 --> 01:40:00,920
an issue. And I don't know, maybe all the back

2223
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:04,720
line help and like the Thighble and and Avdia can

2224
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:05,560
compensate for that.

2225
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:09,239
Speaker 1: But like the Kamara too, I didn't imagine Jesus, you didn't.

2226
01:40:09,039 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 2: Even mention Kamara. Yeah, no, this team has massive defensive upside.

2227
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:16,560
It's just like, is it a good thing if we

2228
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:19,000
see it? Like there's one iteration where.

2229
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:20,840
Speaker 1: Up you're gonna be the one to tap into it.

2230
01:40:22,039 --> 01:40:24,000
I still don't know what his guiding principle is as

2231
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:29,680
a coach does. Yeah, so so you're just grading. If

2232
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:32,600
we're being fair, is the only thing we're grading. Basically,

2233
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:35,319
it's not the only thing, but like, you can't do

2234
01:40:35,399 --> 01:40:37,760
you call clinging a home run or a bust? I

2235
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:40,439
don't think you could go either way. And so are

2236
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,079
we just grading any Abdia trade, which is one of

2237
01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:46,199
the most Maybe it we're not baffling, but for me,

2238
01:40:46,279 --> 01:40:49,359
it's like it's the Rubik's Cubes of trades. I just

2239
01:40:49,399 --> 01:40:51,520
I'm trying to figure it out still we're months removed

2240
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:51,840
from it.

2241
01:40:52,359 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 2: So I was just thinking. I was writing something earlier

2242
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:57,239
today about the Wizards, and I've decided, like I just

2243
01:40:57,399 --> 01:41:00,920
like it for the Wizards because it's extremely future focused

2244
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:02,960
in and aligns more with what I think should be

2245
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:06,920
an extremely future focused, like overall team approach. I think

2246
01:41:07,359 --> 01:41:10,399
it couldn't you say that that should be the Blazers,

2247
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,960
like you know, thinking too, like shouldn't shouldn't they value

2248
01:41:14,680 --> 01:41:16,920
bub Carrington and what you can get for Brogden and

2249
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:20,640
a future first more than Avdiya who's twenty three and

2250
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,680
is still young. But like should I just don't know it.

2251
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:25,800
So I guess to say that you like this for

2252
01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:27,960
Portland is to say that they're in a slightly different

2253
01:41:28,039 --> 01:41:31,039
position than the Wizards are. I guess right like that

2254
01:41:31,159 --> 01:41:32,760
that's how I'm starting to try to wrestle with it.

2255
01:41:33,319 --> 01:41:35,279
Speaker 1: I think they they are in a different position though,

2256
01:41:35,319 --> 01:41:37,800
because like they're the Wizards were working from a completely

2257
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:42,560
barren like position of in terms of having that cornerstone.

2258
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:45,840
And even I love Bala Kolabali, and we don't know

2259
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:47,720
enough about SORR accounting team, but like they can't sit

2260
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:51,000
there and say, Okay, this Scoot Henderson is still considered

2261
01:41:51,079 --> 01:41:54,159
like this directional tempole type prospect that he should be

2262
01:41:54,279 --> 01:41:56,720
until he proves, like over a course in multiple years,

2263
01:41:56,760 --> 01:41:59,279
that he's not. And I think it'd be different if

2264
01:41:59,399 --> 01:42:02,319
Denny Avdy was Paul George like in the timeline that

2265
01:42:02,399 --> 01:42:05,159
but he's twenty three. The contract is great. Maybe you're

2266
01:42:05,159 --> 01:42:07,439
worried about extending him off it at the end, but

2267
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,800
that's four years from now. And I also took it

2268
01:42:10,039 --> 01:42:11,920
to me and maybe this is a misread on my part,

2269
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:14,600
but he kind of feels he feels a need now

2270
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:16,079
if you believe that he could play the three. But

2271
01:42:16,159 --> 01:42:17,840
I also took it as well, they're going to be

2272
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,760
more open to moving Jeremy Grant this season is going

2273
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:22,880
to sit in there. So I think that was so

2274
01:42:23,119 --> 01:42:25,880
I hated it for both teams in the moment, and

2275
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:27,800
the more I thought about it, and maybe is this

2276
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:31,319
the benefit or downside of time and space? I understand it,

2277
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:34,560
even if I don't love it from both perspectives. There's

2278
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:38,640
also the factoid of I'm perennially higher on Denny avviy

2279
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:40,279
than probably anyone else in existence.

2280
01:42:40,319 --> 01:42:42,640
Speaker 2: But I wonder if the reason this has been such

2281
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,439
a hard trade to like sort of get get on

2282
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:48,000
firm footing with is because it's actually just good for

2283
01:42:48,119 --> 01:42:50,520
both teams, and that so rarely happens that we just

2284
01:42:50,560 --> 01:42:52,239
don't know what to do with it. I think maybe

2285
01:42:52,359 --> 01:42:54,560
that's where That's kind of where I'm leaning now, is

2286
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:58,359
like I totally get it from Washington's perspective, and what

2287
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:01,079
you just said is getting me even closer to understanding

2288
01:43:01,079 --> 01:43:03,680
it from Portland's perspective. I think I think it might

2289
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:07,239
just be so. I guess then I would view it,

2290
01:43:08,079 --> 01:43:10,119
as I'm coming around to it now, as a favorable

2291
01:43:10,159 --> 01:43:12,560
trade for the Blazers. I think it's I think it's

2292
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:15,680
a C plus as it stands now, and maybe it's

2293
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:18,119
even better if, like if Carrington's not any good, or

2294
01:43:18,159 --> 01:43:20,279
if the Wizards can't get a first for Brogden, like

2295
01:43:20,319 --> 01:43:24,199
there is some uncertainty about it, but I love Avdia

2296
01:43:24,359 --> 01:43:27,199
like I can't, you know, I just feel like and

2297
01:43:27,359 --> 01:43:29,359
he makes more sense because you're right, the Blazers are

2298
01:43:29,439 --> 01:43:32,039
not at the same they're both rebuilding, but the Blazers

2299
01:43:32,039 --> 01:43:34,319
are at a very different phase of that process than

2300
01:43:34,359 --> 01:43:37,119
the Wizards are. So getting the quote unquote older guy,

2301
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:40,079
I think you know it's a defensible Now.

2302
01:43:40,239 --> 01:43:43,199
Speaker 1: The thing that I have questions about is Denny Avia

2303
01:43:43,279 --> 01:43:46,199
hit Histores last year doesn't take enough and this is

2304
01:43:46,239 --> 01:43:48,800
not a team that improved. It's basic if anything got

2305
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:52,600
worse because you got rid of Brogden, and so like,

2306
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:54,520
how do you square that with? And I guess it

2307
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:57,720
ties into should they have by now? Or let's cause

2308
01:43:57,720 --> 01:43:59,720
we're gonna go back and do regrades but it's September,

2309
01:44:00,319 --> 01:44:03,039
Like should they have already made some of the talent

2310
01:44:03,159 --> 01:44:06,039
shedding calls that we know are going to come if

2311
01:44:06,079 --> 01:44:09,680
it's not by the trade deadline and certainly by next offseason,

2312
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:11,960
because that would be a fair critique of just like, well,

2313
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:14,159
if you want all these guys kind of in the room,

2314
01:44:14,159 --> 01:44:16,000
like should the big man situation be cleared up? So

2315
01:44:16,079 --> 01:44:18,359
you're not dealing like we got, Oh, we have like

2316
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:20,640
du operate and we have Robert Williams the Third, and

2317
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:23,920
we have DeAndre and Donovan Klingen. So I think that's fair.

2318
01:44:24,039 --> 01:44:26,600
So like, I'm not they're not at a point where you, oh,

2319
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:28,279
we shouldn't have taken Clinging because we have eight and

2320
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:30,119
Robert Williams the Third, But like, is there a plan

2321
01:44:30,199 --> 01:44:32,319
in place to make sure that Clinging doesn't have to

2322
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:35,359
like see his development warped in any way, just even

2323
01:44:35,359 --> 01:44:38,000
if it's just year one, because those dudes are gonna

2324
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:40,960
take priority, and I certainly I think Ayton's probably people

2325
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:43,000
have written off Robert Williams the Third. I actually think

2326
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:44,800
he's the best of the bigs on their roster when

2327
01:44:44,840 --> 01:44:47,159
he's healthy. But he's just never healthy. So that's why

2328
01:44:47,199 --> 01:44:50,920
Ayton probably takes the higher profile there. I like, so

2329
01:44:51,039 --> 01:44:53,600
that makes me uneasy, But I also don't know how

2330
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:56,520
to grade the matter of like they should have just

2331
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:58,880
done a better job of opening so because sometimes you

2332
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:01,079
can go too far and direction or the other where

2333
01:45:01,079 --> 01:45:03,439
it's oh there's like too many veterans here or too

2334
01:45:03,479 --> 01:45:05,880
many guys that in minutes versus oh, there's not like

2335
01:45:05,920 --> 01:45:07,680
the Pistons would be the other end of the spectrum,

2336
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:11,039
where they're just sort of course correcting on that front

2337
01:45:11,159 --> 01:45:14,039
where it felt like they had too many just flyers

2338
01:45:14,079 --> 01:45:16,960
and not enough of Okay, we need guys who are good,

2339
01:45:17,399 --> 01:45:19,159
don't fit our timeline, aren't going to be around for

2340
01:45:19,199 --> 01:45:23,199
a long enough time, but they will streamline the existence

2341
01:45:23,359 --> 01:45:25,520
of the guys that we want to develop. I think

2342
01:45:25,560 --> 01:45:28,560
Portland probably skews as of right now to me too

2343
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:30,520
far in the direction of, like, even though you can

2344
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:32,399
make a case that the Wizards are there right now,

2345
01:45:32,760 --> 01:45:34,720
why are there so many roster spots being taken up

2346
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:37,000
by guys that aren't going to be here in two years? Yeah.

2347
01:45:37,039 --> 01:45:39,520
Speaker 2: I think if you're gonna give the Blazers the benefit

2348
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:42,359
of the doubt, the case you'd make is like, so

2349
01:45:42,520 --> 01:45:47,079
take Ayton, take Jeremy Grant and so both. I don't

2350
01:45:47,079 --> 01:45:48,319
have it up in front of me, But it's not

2351
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:52,319
like you're running into a situation where their value is

2352
01:45:52,359 --> 01:45:54,479
going to decline because they're getting towards the end of

2353
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:57,560
these deals that they're on. Broggden, in contrast, they did

2354
01:45:57,680 --> 01:46:00,920
trade and that's I think a good point of comparison,

2355
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:03,479
because he is expiring right or is he Yeah, I

2356
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:07,640
think he's expired. So, like, I guess the benefit of

2357
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:09,319
the doubt case for Portland is like they're just kind

2358
01:46:09,359 --> 01:46:11,920
of being patient and maybe a deal emerges for it.

2359
01:46:12,159 --> 01:46:13,880
Now you can go too far with that, and I

2360
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:15,720
think I generally agree with you. Is it feels like

2361
01:46:17,640 --> 01:46:20,600
Portland is bad enough to where the roster mix like

2362
01:46:20,640 --> 01:46:22,600
doesn't really matter too much to me, Like they are

2363
01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:24,680
over stuffed at center and there are vets that like,

2364
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,159
why are you still here type of guys. But like

2365
01:46:28,119 --> 01:46:30,760
I think maybe in certain cases, and maybe this is

2366
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:34,760
one of them, there's not really an urgent, but maybe

2367
01:46:34,760 --> 01:46:36,479
there should be, right because if you want Clinging to

2368
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:38,600
play and you want to sort of just see what

2369
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:40,600
Sharp and Scoot have going.

2370
01:46:40,920 --> 01:46:41,239
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2371
01:46:41,319 --> 01:46:43,359
Speaker 2: I guess I'm a little more open to the patient's

2372
01:46:43,399 --> 01:46:46,560
approach or the patient's excuse for the weird roster, but

2373
01:46:46,720 --> 01:46:48,000
I guess it's just still an issue.

2374
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:50,439
Speaker 1: I would. I just want to see what the minute

2375
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:52,920
it's I want to see what the minutes district. If

2376
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:54,680
they don't make any further changes before the start of

2377
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:56,119
the season, I want to see what the minist distribution

2378
01:46:56,239 --> 01:46:57,680
looks like, because you can just sit here and say, well,

2379
01:46:57,920 --> 01:46:59,600
they know claning is more valuable to the future, so

2380
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:03,000
he's gonna play plenty. Coaches don't always think in those terms.

2381
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,760
Speaker 2: Right, especially guys like Billups who might want to keep

2382
01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:07,800
a job that like he doesn't exactly have a strength.

2383
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:10,680
Speaker 1: There's like maybe one or two coaches whose seats feel

2384
01:47:10,760 --> 01:47:13,000
less secure than billups is right now, like Willie Green

2385
01:47:13,159 --> 01:47:15,960
just off rip because of the Pelicans' expectations, and they're

2386
01:47:16,039 --> 01:47:17,479
kind of getting to a point where's, well, what else

2387
01:47:17,520 --> 01:47:19,000
are we changing if no one wants to trade for

2388
01:47:19,039 --> 01:47:23,840
brandon Ingram? But so yeah, I think I kind of

2389
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:25,399
end up in like the I'm thinking, like B B

2390
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:27,600
minus range is that too high? Too love?

2391
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:30,560
Speaker 2: B minus sounds good to me. I like the OVDA trade,

2392
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:33,600
and I guess the Klingon pick is probably at worst,

2393
01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:35,439
I don't we we just sort of can't create it.

2394
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:38,279
But like just the surrounding roster, I guess kind of

2395
01:47:38,359 --> 01:47:41,680
makes both of those moves seem a little weird, like

2396
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,279
weird enough to where we see the upside, we see

2397
01:47:44,359 --> 01:47:46,960
like nothing terrible went down, but like we can't go

2398
01:47:47,079 --> 01:47:48,720
crazy in the B plus or A range, So B

2399
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:49,640
minus I'm good with.

2400
01:47:50,399 --> 01:47:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so for anyone who didn't listen to the

2401
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:55,039
grading criteria, that is above average. If you've just choppered

2402
01:47:55,079 --> 01:47:57,079
in for this section, good grade.

2403
01:47:57,279 --> 01:47:58,239
Speaker 2: Good job Blazers.

2404
01:47:59,279 --> 01:48:01,760
Speaker 1: Uh, this TA team is min Oh my Utah Jazz,

2405
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:04,520
this is really unfortunate that I'm taking ownership of them

2406
01:48:05,039 --> 01:48:08,359
this offseason. Drafted Cody Williams at ten. I suddenly feel

2407
01:48:08,359 --> 01:48:10,880
better about the Utah Jazz. Drafted Isaiah Collier at number

2408
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:13,800
twenty nine. Drafted Kyle Philipalski at number thirty two. He

2409
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:16,000
signed a four year, twelve million dollar deal, the first

2410
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:19,000
two years of which are guaranteed. They signed Drew Ubanks

2411
01:48:19,039 --> 01:48:21,159
for some reason to two years nine point eight million,

2412
01:48:21,239 --> 01:48:23,960
only year one is guaranteed. That was more money than

2413
01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:25,800
I thought Drew Eubanks was going to get after how

2414
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:28,800
he played in Phoenix that year. They traded Chris Dunn

2415
01:48:29,239 --> 01:48:31,720
on a It ended up being a three year deal

2416
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:34,520
to the Clippers for Russell Westbrook, who was bought out,

2417
01:48:34,560 --> 01:48:36,600
and they got a twenty thirty second round swap as

2418
01:48:36,600 --> 01:48:38,439
well as four point three million dollars in cash.

2419
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:40,159
Speaker 2: The big one Larry Market and the.

2420
01:48:40,159 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 1: Renegotiating extend is done, so the salary has increased from

2421
01:48:45,159 --> 01:48:47,880
eighteen something million to the max of forty two point two,

2422
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:50,119
so about an increase of twenty four million in change.

2423
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:52,880
That's the max next season. And then he added an

2424
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:55,760
additional four years at one hundred and ninety five point

2425
01:48:55,840 --> 01:48:57,680
nine million. That was less than he technically could have

2426
01:48:57,720 --> 01:49:00,479
received over those four years, and there are no options

2427
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:03,720
in that deal. They signed Saphie Makaie Luke too four

2428
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:05,920
years and fifteen point one million, but only year one

2429
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:08,319
is guaranteed. When I saw that number, I was like, Okay,

2430
01:49:08,399 --> 01:49:13,079
this is like classic NFL reporting here, right. They signed

2431
01:49:13,119 --> 01:49:15,279
Johnny Jizangna four years, eleven point four million.

2432
01:49:15,399 --> 01:49:16,079
Speaker 2: Guess what grant?

2433
01:49:16,199 --> 01:49:20,199
Speaker 1: Only year one is guaranteed. Any notable exits here? They

2434
01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:23,479
waved Darius Baisley, they wave Kenny lofton junior, They waved

2435
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:26,439
over your at seven grant. How are we feeling about

2436
01:49:26,479 --> 01:49:27,239
Utah's offseason?

2437
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:29,920
Speaker 2: I feel like anyone that's heard us talk about them

2438
01:49:30,039 --> 01:49:33,800
should understand that we're sort of conflicted. I like the

2439
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,239
I love the Cody Williams pick. I even really liked

2440
01:49:36,239 --> 01:49:38,319
the Isaiah Collier pick, just because of where he was

2441
01:49:38,399 --> 01:49:42,159
sort of viewed, you know, before last college season started.

2442
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:46,079
I don't know was the top five type guy smart?

2443
01:49:46,119 --> 01:49:47,840
Speaker 1: People love the Philipowski pick too.

2444
01:49:48,159 --> 01:49:51,439
Speaker 2: Sure, I think all three of those picks are are great. Again,

2445
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:54,239
We're not going nuts over the draft, h Drew Banks.

2446
01:49:54,359 --> 01:49:56,800
Speaker 1: I'll go nuts over Cody Williams. He was he finished

2447
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:57,760
the top my big board.

2448
01:49:58,399 --> 01:50:00,680
Speaker 2: Drew you Banks is obviously alliance your question on the

2449
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:02,760
roster for when they trade Walker Kesseler, who they don't

2450
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:07,199
care about it anymore. It's it's we're we don't know

2451
01:50:07,239 --> 01:50:11,279
what to do with the Jazz because they gave market

2452
01:50:11,359 --> 01:50:13,319
and all this money, which like I think he's probably worth.

2453
01:50:13,399 --> 01:50:17,640
I'm fine with him at that money. It's just it's

2454
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:22,119
difficult to determine how the Jazz can be in service

2455
01:50:22,199 --> 01:50:25,880
of their young players, and also, like make it make

2456
01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:28,520
sense that they gave a late mid to late twenties

2457
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:30,840
guy that's not an all star, hasn't been one yet

2458
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:33,760
that kind of money. Like what I just I guess

2459
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:37,159
maybe if you're going to give them a high grade,

2460
01:50:37,239 --> 01:50:39,880
you would have to say, this is all still just

2461
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:43,239
an asset management exercise, and Lauri Markinen is a positive

2462
01:50:43,239 --> 01:50:45,439
asset at that number, and that is how the Jazz

2463
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:48,159
are viewing him as opposed to like, we're going to

2464
01:50:48,199 --> 01:50:50,600
build a winner short term around him, because that just

2465
01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:52,880
isn't what's happening with the rest of this roster. There's

2466
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:55,079
a weird, like overall disconnect, right that we sort of

2467
01:50:55,119 --> 01:50:57,079
have to figure out how to make make sense.

2468
01:50:58,199 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's I I don't know whether I'm like, I guess,

2469
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:03,159
kind of neutral.

2470
01:51:03,199 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 2: I love the Cody Williams pick.

2471
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:07,079
Speaker 1: Like I said, I guess the case comes down to

2472
01:51:07,239 --> 01:51:09,800
do you think that did they do enough to ensure

2473
01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:12,560
that they won't have another year like they did these

2474
01:51:12,600 --> 01:51:15,399
past two seasons where they're they've become so good for

2475
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:17,680
this pocket of time that they then kind of have

2476
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:20,439
to hurry up and tank around and after the trade deadline,

2477
01:51:20,439 --> 01:51:21,079
it's just not enough.

2478
01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:22,319
Speaker 2: You're gonna end up with, you.

2479
01:51:22,359 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 1: Know, the tenth overall pick or the eighth overall pick. Whatever.

2480
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:27,479
It winds up being my counter to people who are

2481
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:30,039
concerned about that, and it's also countering myself because I

2482
01:51:30,079 --> 01:51:31,960
feel like I'm concerned just because will Hardy is a

2483
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:33,800
good coach and they have some good players.

2484
01:51:34,319 --> 01:51:37,119
Speaker 2: Uh, this team took like one.

2485
01:51:37,039 --> 01:51:40,279
Speaker 1: Of their three good defenders and traded him and Chris

2486
01:51:40,399 --> 01:51:43,760
Dunn and now it's who's their best perimeter defender. It's

2487
01:51:43,800 --> 01:51:46,159
probably Taylor Hendrix. I'm open to the idea that it

2488
01:51:46,199 --> 01:51:49,439
will be Cody Williams. They still have Walker Kessler on

2489
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:53,359
this team, but like those three players does not make

2490
01:51:53,439 --> 01:51:55,760
it like a league average defense. The Jazz are probably

2491
01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:58,359
gonna be in the bottom three defensively. Out imagine that's

2492
01:51:58,359 --> 01:52:00,800
gonna be enough to I think, lose him a bunch

2493
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,800
of games. And the upside of having market In under

2494
01:52:03,880 --> 01:52:06,560
contract if you don't want to do anything that he's

2495
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:08,199
gotten paid so it doesn't matter too much, but you

2496
01:52:08,239 --> 01:52:10,640
don't want to cost him all NBA or All Star

2497
01:52:11,199 --> 01:52:14,159
eligibility by not playing him enough. Like now you could

2498
01:52:14,199 --> 01:52:17,399
just do whatever the hell you want to within reason

2499
01:52:17,479 --> 01:52:19,159
of well, you also don't want a new kiss trade

2500
01:52:19,199 --> 01:52:21,159
value where it's well, why did market It only play

2501
01:52:21,199 --> 01:52:23,479
in fifty three games last year and it was like, oh,

2502
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:26,239
he had like a sprained super CATCHU fragile, this ahb

2503
01:52:26,359 --> 01:52:29,479
Alidoci's tendon or something is like listed on the injury report,

2504
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:32,359
So then teams would know that as well. I like,

2505
01:52:32,600 --> 01:52:34,720
I don't know that I feel confident in Utah's direction

2506
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:37,840
because they still do need to unearth the best player

2507
01:52:38,279 --> 01:52:39,920
of their future. So even if you think that they

2508
01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:42,960
want to keep marketing long term, which I'm still not convinced,

2509
01:52:43,399 --> 01:52:45,439
but I think, honestly, I think if Danny Ainge had

2510
01:52:45,479 --> 01:52:48,039
his way, marketing would have already been gone. But I

2511
01:52:48,079 --> 01:52:50,199
think but just between ownership and then like the team

2512
01:52:50,279 --> 01:52:52,960
being too good at points, his hand was just forced

2513
01:52:53,359 --> 01:52:55,840
a little bit. But you need to find the player

2514
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:58,079
who is good enough to say, well, marketing is our

2515
01:52:58,079 --> 01:53:00,640
second best player and we feel great about that. Do

2516
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:03,680
I trust that they're going to find that player via

2517
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:06,439
the draft? No, but they also have the trade assets

2518
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:09,159
to decide. Right, it isn't working like who's the next

2519
01:53:09,279 --> 01:53:11,159
It's not even who's the next dude to become available.

2520
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:14,279
Let's go out there and create our own trade market,

2521
01:53:14,319 --> 01:53:16,640
basically like the Knicks did with mchal Bridges, where it

2522
01:53:16,800 --> 01:53:18,720
was all right the next thing to be willing to

2523
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:21,760
move him. He couldn't be like Luka Doncic level. But

2524
01:53:22,479 --> 01:53:24,560
that wasn't someone they seemed like they were readily shopping,

2525
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:27,479
but an opportunity present itself. The Knicks came over the

2526
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:29,359
top of an offer. If they did that for this

2527
01:53:29,479 --> 01:53:32,000
is just an example, not advocating for it, though, I

2528
01:53:32,039 --> 01:53:34,800
would LaMelo Ball like if they like, if they went

2529
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:37,119
out inside of he's the guy, they could get LaMelo Ball,

2530
01:53:37,239 --> 01:53:38,399
like they have the assets to do that.

2531
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:44,399
Speaker 2: Do you think that Markinen could on this new deal

2532
01:53:44,479 --> 01:53:48,439
when he is eligible, be traded for a package that's

2533
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:51,159
better than what the Warriors would not give.

2534
01:53:51,119 --> 01:53:54,640
Speaker 1: Up for him? Like prior to the extension, Well, what's so,

2535
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:56,039
could you set the baseline for me?

2536
01:53:56,279 --> 01:53:59,359
Speaker 2: Well, so it seems like it was gonna be. What

2537
01:53:59,479 --> 01:54:02,479
the Warriors were wouldn't do was include Pajemski along with

2538
01:54:03,159 --> 01:54:06,640
I guess, like I imagine that if the Warriors were

2539
01:54:06,680 --> 01:54:09,359
willing to include Pajemski, the Jazz would have traded marketing

2540
01:54:09,439 --> 01:54:14,279
in for him Moody salary and like three firsts. Do

2541
01:54:14,359 --> 01:54:16,840
you think that market in will fetch more than that,

2542
01:54:17,439 --> 01:54:20,359
like hypothetically a year from now or eighteen months from

2543
01:54:20,399 --> 01:54:23,039
now or whatever? Because if the answer is yes or

2544
01:54:23,159 --> 01:54:27,640
like even a maybe, then suddenly the marketing renegotiating extent

2545
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:32,039
is like totally makes sense because you're just preserving the asset.

2546
01:54:32,359 --> 01:54:34,119
Even if it's like what the hell are all these

2547
01:54:34,159 --> 01:54:35,960
young guys like marketing is gonna make us too good?

2548
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:38,640
All the points he raised. I think, I think I'm

2549
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:40,359
just trying to find the logic in it. And I

2550
01:54:40,399 --> 01:54:42,359
think if your answers yes to the question, then we've

2551
01:54:42,479 --> 01:54:44,760
sort of found some my I.

2552
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:48,079
Speaker 1: Guess my argument would be just it's so tough with pods, right,

2553
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:50,720
But I don't think if they move him next summer,

2554
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:53,039
Let's say I would say they're going to get at

2555
01:54:53,159 --> 01:54:54,720
least that much.

2556
01:54:55,079 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 2: Like at least three first and whatever, right, Like, then

2557
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:00,560
it's still I agree it this.

2558
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:02,479
Speaker 1: Way because it doesn't sound like the Warriors are willing

2559
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:05,359
to go to three first but like four pods like

2560
01:55:06,319 --> 01:55:08,119
and I think so if you did POD's moody and

2561
01:55:08,159 --> 01:55:10,520
two like, So let's say the equivalent of four first

2562
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:12,720
round picks. Would that be fair or you think it's

2563
01:55:12,720 --> 01:55:14,600
a little bit more than that. I would say that

2564
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:18,199
he would probably get at least that much next summer.

2565
01:55:18,319 --> 01:55:20,680
Speaker 2: Would be my, Yeah, two young guys you're gonna have

2566
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:23,439
now you got more salary filler, but like two young guys,

2567
01:55:23,479 --> 01:55:25,720
two firsts and whatever it takes to make the.

2568
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:27,880
Speaker 1: Money matter, Like we're like the young guy in three

2569
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:28,960
first type deal.

2570
01:55:29,399 --> 01:55:32,279
Speaker 2: That's that's a plausible return for marketing, right, especially if

2571
01:55:32,319 --> 01:55:34,159
he has another year as good as the last couple.

2572
01:55:34,720 --> 01:55:39,039
Speaker 1: I guess, right, that's plausible. But then it's did they

2573
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:42,359
are they punting on another opportunity to be as bad

2574
01:55:42,439 --> 01:55:43,039
as they can be?

2575
01:55:43,359 --> 01:55:45,920
Speaker 2: Great? Great question, Yeah, because they did it once and

2576
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:47,880
maybe it cost some wimby. Maybe it didn't. If you

2577
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:49,960
do it, if it's this now, it'll be a third year.

2578
01:55:50,279 --> 01:55:52,239
Last year didn't matter because the draft was bad. But

2579
01:55:52,279 --> 01:55:54,000
I don't know, maybe it cost some reed shepherd who

2580
01:55:54,039 --> 01:55:55,680
knows if you do it a third year and it

2581
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:57,319
costs you Flag or Bailey or whatever.

2582
01:55:57,640 --> 01:55:59,119
Speaker 1: And I guess the way to look at it though,

2583
01:55:59,119 --> 01:56:01,760
would be if it costs you a top five pick, Yeah,

2584
01:56:02,279 --> 01:56:05,359
it might well, but they could be looking at it

2585
01:56:05,880 --> 01:56:08,439
this way though. Grant, how many teams in the wester

2586
01:56:08,439 --> 01:56:10,319
are you prepare to guarantee that they're better than if

2587
01:56:10,359 --> 01:56:12,560
they leave the roster alone like one?

2588
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:13,119
Speaker 2: Maybe?

2589
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:16,039
Speaker 1: And that's that's if Portland tears shit down.

2590
01:56:16,359 --> 01:56:19,520
Speaker 2: If your question is guarantee zero, that's.

2591
01:56:19,399 --> 01:56:21,359
Speaker 1: That's kind of the answer. So then it's okay, Now

2592
01:56:21,399 --> 01:56:23,439
let's go to the East. How many teams are you

2593
01:56:23,600 --> 01:56:29,479
convinced you know we're gonna be worse than Utah? So definitely, Washington, Brooklyn, Brooklyn,

2594
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:32,439
and then it's like, okay, Detroit.

2595
01:56:33,119 --> 01:56:35,039
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that's not a guarantee.

2596
01:56:35,560 --> 01:56:38,399
Speaker 1: And then it's just like there's Chicago, Toronto, and Charlotte

2597
01:56:38,479 --> 01:56:40,479
floating around out there where it's I think you could

2598
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:42,960
say maybe one of those teams, yeah, will be better

2599
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:45,319
than Utah. So we're four Let's say we're prepared to

2600
01:56:45,359 --> 01:56:48,760
guarantee four teams in the league, guarantee four teams in

2601
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:52,399
the league are going to be worse than Utah. That

2602
01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:54,680
puts them at fifth and like if they need to

2603
01:56:54,760 --> 01:56:56,840
make up or spot or two, like that is something

2604
01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:59,880
you can do midstream by like hey, Colin Sexton, Jordan

2605
01:57:00,039 --> 01:57:02,319
Clarks and take some time off, or they could also

2606
01:57:02,399 --> 01:57:04,560
be a team. And I think this would make me

2607
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:06,920
feel better about Again, we can't. This can't be part

2608
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:08,600
of the great I'm just trying to understand their logic.

2609
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:11,800
They could also act sooner, like you could probably maybe

2610
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:13,399
you're not getting a lot for him, but like you

2611
01:57:13,439 --> 01:57:16,039
could move Collin Sextan in November rather than February.

2612
01:57:16,439 --> 01:57:19,319
Speaker 2: Right. No, I think as we're talking this out, it

2613
01:57:19,399 --> 01:57:22,319
feels like They're great is getting higher because the marketing

2614
01:57:22,479 --> 01:57:27,319
deal just it doesn't seem like it's creating the confusion

2615
01:57:27,439 --> 01:57:29,960
or the downsides that maybe it does. It looks like

2616
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:32,920
it does on its face. I think, really, like Grant,

2617
01:57:33,039 --> 01:57:34,560
this is a weird thing to say about someone who

2618
01:57:34,640 --> 01:57:36,680
just got you know, two hundred and some million dollars.

2619
01:57:36,720 --> 01:57:38,920
But it's like it's almost like it feels weirder for

2620
01:57:39,079 --> 01:57:41,279
him than for Utah, because like, what does he want

2621
01:57:41,319 --> 01:57:42,800
to be He said he wants to be there, That

2622
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:44,760
was a huge part of it, but like he's definitely

2623
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:46,600
going to suffer through at least one shit a year

2624
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:50,399
and maybe more. From the Jazz's perspective, it's like, cool,

2625
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:52,399
if he's down for that, great and we'll trade him

2626
01:57:52,399 --> 01:57:53,159
when the time's right.

2627
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:55,359
Speaker 1: I go back and forth on trying to give the

2628
01:57:55,439 --> 01:57:57,960
Jazz credit for getting Larry Market on board with this

2629
01:57:58,119 --> 01:58:00,960
versus they gave him an extra twenty four million dollars.

2630
01:58:02,119 --> 01:58:05,640
So I feel like, ultimately like I'm kind of in

2631
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:08,279
the C plus range, I think because the vision's hazy,

2632
01:58:08,359 --> 01:58:10,520
but I think that their draft was above average. And

2633
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:13,720
I mean, marketing, is it cost you cap space this

2634
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:16,800
year which you could have used to get better, like

2635
01:58:16,880 --> 01:58:18,800
so that you weren't just like, oh, we're not gonna

2636
01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:19,359
be good enough, but.

2637
01:58:19,399 --> 01:58:21,479
Speaker 2: We might not get a top five pick anyway.

2638
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:24,359
Speaker 1: So it feels like if there was more of a

2639
01:58:24,479 --> 01:58:26,920
like if you again this is this is a classic

2640
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:28,680
team where it's like we'll have more clarity in the

2641
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:30,840
regrades than we have right, which is true for all

2642
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:33,600
these teams. But it wouldn't shock me if that grade

2643
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:36,359
winds up being much lower or higher when we go back.

2644
01:58:36,399 --> 01:58:38,560
I just can't. I can't go higher than a C

2645
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:40,000
plus for me. I don't know where you're at.

2646
01:58:40,680 --> 01:58:43,640
Speaker 2: I was leaning like a B minus just because I've

2647
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:46,600
talked myself into the marketing deal just making sense now

2648
01:58:47,119 --> 01:58:49,119
because I think your point about like they're gonna be

2649
01:58:49,239 --> 01:58:52,079
it's gonna be really hard for them to be higher

2650
01:58:52,159 --> 01:58:54,680
than like the twenty fifth best team in the league,

2651
01:58:54,840 --> 01:58:58,039
Like if you're talking about guarantees or like high confidence levels,

2652
01:58:58,520 --> 01:59:01,399
like without marketing, then we're really talking about bottom four.

2653
01:59:01,479 --> 01:59:03,600
But with him, like I just he just may not

2654
01:59:03,720 --> 01:59:07,359
be good enough to offset all the youth and all

2655
01:59:07,439 --> 01:59:10,000
the other vets they may trade off, you know, as

2656
01:59:10,119 --> 01:59:13,520
along the way. So it can I talk you up

2657
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:15,720
to a B minus because now I've suddenly gotten on

2658
01:59:15,800 --> 01:59:17,680
board with with the market and move after not.

2659
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 1: I view the Cody Willinguth pick is a plus plus plus,

2660
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:23,760
so you could probably talk me even higher. Cool, So

2661
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:26,560
we're going with a B minus. Yeah, which was your

2662
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:27,199
actual grade.

2663
01:59:27,199 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 2: I'll pencil in a C plus for myself.

2664
01:59:28,840 --> 01:59:32,039
Speaker 1: But there is such a bizarre sp It's not a

2665
01:59:32,079 --> 01:59:35,279
bad spot, yeah, but it's not like an incredible spot.

2666
01:59:35,319 --> 01:59:36,800
Speaker 2: I think we just made sense of it. I think

2667
01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:37,600
we did a good job.

2668
01:59:37,720 --> 01:59:39,640
Speaker 1: All right, look at us. Where's that Paul rut meme?

2669
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:43,319
But yeah, like, oh, this is actually your Golden State Warriors.

2670
01:59:43,680 --> 01:59:45,840
Speaker 2: All right, let's start with the most important thing they did.

2671
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:48,000
They traded number fifty two, a Quinton Post for Lindy

2672
01:59:48,039 --> 01:59:52,520
Waters third lookout. Actually, like Lindy Waters got to Anthony

2673
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:55,000
Melton on a one year, twelve point eight million dollar deal.

2674
01:59:55,079 --> 01:59:57,720
That's the full mL E. They're hard capped at the

2675
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:00,600
first apron. That was probably gonna happen anyway. Kyle Anderson

2676
02:00:00,600 --> 02:00:02,640
three years twenty seven million in assign and trade. That

2677
02:00:02,720 --> 02:00:06,520
was part of the Klay Thompson exit. Also for Clay

2678
02:00:06,560 --> 02:00:08,920
Thompson in a twenty thirty one second round swap. Look

2679
02:00:08,920 --> 02:00:11,039
a look at that got it? How many other thirty

2680
02:00:11,079 --> 02:00:14,479
one second round swaps were there. Also signed Buddy Held

2681
02:00:14,680 --> 02:00:17,840
via sign and trade. Technically that was again priced into

2682
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,399
the megadeal for Dallas's twenty thirty one second guaranteed for

2683
02:00:22,600 --> 02:00:25,159
two years and eighteen million is healed three million in

2684
02:00:25,239 --> 02:00:27,960
the third years guaranteed twenty seven to twenty eight becomes

2685
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:28,479
player option.

2686
02:00:28,800 --> 02:00:32,079
Speaker 1: Steph Curry alright, interject, Is Buddy healed like a closet

2687
02:00:32,199 --> 02:00:34,439
mass murder or something? Why is that? I mean, I

2688
02:00:34,520 --> 02:00:36,840
know we went through this from Beasley and Garret Trent Junior,

2689
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:40,920
but that is like zero leverage type shit that he

2690
02:00:41,239 --> 02:00:41,840
that he got.

2691
02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:44,079
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. I mean, it's well,

2692
02:00:44,119 --> 02:00:46,359
we'll talk about it as part of the grade. It's

2693
02:00:46,479 --> 02:00:51,439
it's hard to understand. Steph Curry sixty two point six

2694
02:00:51,640 --> 02:00:54,920
million dollars one year extension that'll be his age thirty

2695
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:57,640
eight season. That's so now officially signed through twenty six.

2696
02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:01,439
Twenty seven signed rees, Speakman and Dayquon plowed into two

2697
02:01:01,479 --> 02:01:04,880
ways gone. Chris Paul he was waived. They couldn't find

2698
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:08,359
a deal for him, so just didn't ultimately get anything

2699
02:01:08,439 --> 02:01:11,279
for him. Clay Thompson also gone. Obviously, Gary Pain the

2700
02:01:11,279 --> 02:01:13,319
second they picked up, picked up his own nine point

2701
02:01:13,319 --> 02:01:16,640
three million dollar player option. So Dan team looks a

2702
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:22,439
little different. Got three rotation type guys Klay Thompson gone Bud,

2703
02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:25,039
he healed. Maybe a replacement for him, maybe not. I'm

2704
02:01:25,079 --> 02:01:27,960
curious of your thoughts on that. What are your initial

2705
02:01:28,560 --> 02:01:30,800
I guess maybe the question is what move or moves

2706
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:34,039
are you focusing on here? Mostly as you're thinking about

2707
02:01:34,039 --> 02:01:34,560
the great.

2708
02:01:34,840 --> 02:01:37,800
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the classic. You have to look

2709
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:40,079
at everything. I think the biggest one is so Steph

2710
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:42,840
wants to be there even if you're bad. Butts in seats,

2711
02:01:43,359 --> 02:01:45,119
that's great for them, and he's on the extension. I

2712
02:01:45,159 --> 02:01:46,640
think that it might be better. Okay, So what do

2713
02:01:46,720 --> 02:01:49,199
I view is the next most impactful move? I think

2714
02:01:49,239 --> 02:01:52,239
it's Danthony Melton. We need to see what his back

2715
02:01:52,560 --> 02:01:54,560
is like. But it's a one year, twelve point eight

2716
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:56,880
million dollar deal, so that's the full mle. What that

2717
02:01:57,079 --> 02:01:59,319
does is this so you still have the flexibility of

2718
02:01:59,399 --> 02:02:01,560
he just comes off the books, but like with his

2719
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:03,920
non bird rights, one hundred and twenty percent of that,

2720
02:02:04,079 --> 02:02:06,600
like you could also just resign him. So it's not oh,

2721
02:02:06,840 --> 02:02:09,439
why couldn't get a second year attached to that and

2722
02:02:09,479 --> 02:02:10,279
it's like they don't need it.

2723
02:02:10,479 --> 02:02:10,840
Speaker 2: That's why.

2724
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:12,520
Speaker 1: So I thought that was actually like kind of what

2725
02:02:12,600 --> 02:02:14,279
flew under the radar a little bit. Not just the

2726
02:02:14,319 --> 02:02:16,439
Antey Mountain is good, but the Warriors set themselves up

2727
02:02:16,840 --> 02:02:19,840
really well. And just in terms of what I think

2728
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:23,720
this team can do defensively now, like adding Kyle Anderson,

2729
02:02:24,159 --> 02:02:28,000
adding the Anthony Melton, not having Klay Thompson, the rotation

2730
02:02:28,039 --> 02:02:29,680
where you have Buddy Heels, that might be a little

2731
02:02:29,680 --> 02:02:31,159
bit of a wash. You know what you have in

2732
02:02:31,199 --> 02:02:34,159
Tray Jackson, Davis Draymond presumably won't be suspended for a

2733
02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:36,880
quarter of the season. I feel like they could do

2734
02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:41,399
some really interesting things defensively. I have questions. I think

2735
02:02:41,439 --> 02:02:43,520
Buddy Heel is valuable as a four S baser the

2736
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:47,239
Anthey Mountain again, as just someone who like plays his

2737
02:02:47,319 --> 02:02:49,159
ass off on defense and then doesn't need the ball

2738
02:02:49,159 --> 02:02:51,680
on offense and will hit threes. That could work. I

2739
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:54,039
really like when Lindy Water is the third, like there's

2740
02:02:54,079 --> 02:02:55,640
a motion shooting element to what he does and he

2741
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:57,720
can get to his spots inside the arc as well.

2742
02:02:58,000 --> 02:03:00,119
I don't know if they plan on playing him. They

2743
02:03:00,159 --> 02:03:01,720
gave up a number fifty two pick that they ended

2744
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:04,239
up purchasing back because Quintin Post is on this team

2745
02:03:04,279 --> 02:03:06,479
right now. I did not include that in the sheet,

2746
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:09,640
so I I mean, I'm more curs here with your

2747
02:03:09,680 --> 02:03:11,600
thoughts than my own. But what do you view as

2748
02:03:11,640 --> 02:03:15,319
that just the I guess the biggest like emotionally losing

2749
02:03:15,399 --> 02:03:17,359
Klay Thompson is the biggest move, but like, what's the

2750
02:03:17,479 --> 02:03:20,239
most impactful move that will impact how they play on

2751
02:03:20,319 --> 02:03:20,680
the court?

2752
02:03:21,039 --> 02:03:25,159
Speaker 2: Well, I think I don't know. You have to the

2753
02:03:25,279 --> 02:03:28,159
macro question is really what I'm fixated on here, And

2754
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:31,520
to talk about that, you have to go down roads

2755
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:33,640
that the Warriors didn't, which is like they made a

2756
02:03:33,720 --> 02:03:36,319
play for Paul George before he ended up with the Sixers,

2757
02:03:36,359 --> 02:03:38,960
and they were very much apparently in on Laurie Markin

2758
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:42,479
and didn't get him. So all of the acquisitions, I think,

2759
02:03:42,720 --> 02:03:43,119
go ahead.

2760
02:03:43,359 --> 02:03:46,920
Speaker 1: I have a question, Yeah, how much credit do we

2761
02:03:47,159 --> 02:03:48,800
because I think part of the grade has to be

2762
02:03:49,000 --> 02:03:51,319
like how committed are they to making the most of

2763
02:03:51,840 --> 02:03:54,479
steps remaining window? But how much credit do you get

2764
02:03:54,600 --> 02:03:57,840
because they went after Paul George and Larry marketIn? But

2765
02:03:58,479 --> 02:04:01,199
was it in a way that they were serious? Because

2766
02:04:01,239 --> 02:04:02,520
when you kind of look at some of the offers

2767
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:04,239
that were floating around there for lowry market and it

2768
02:04:04,359 --> 02:04:06,760
was sort of they don't want to include pods and

2769
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:08,840
they'll give you two first round picks. It's like, right, like,

2770
02:04:09,239 --> 02:04:11,000
what are you sending out at that point? And so

2771
02:04:11,199 --> 02:04:12,159
is this more for PR?

2772
02:04:12,319 --> 02:04:13,079
Speaker 2: That they tried it?

2773
02:04:13,520 --> 02:04:15,560
Speaker 1: Stephanely tried but Utah wouldn't trade him to us for

2774
02:04:15,600 --> 02:04:16,119
a discount.

2775
02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:19,800
Speaker 2: I think there's definitely a PR element, But I also

2776
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:22,399
think that you didn't hear a whole lot of other

2777
02:04:22,479 --> 02:04:24,720
teams that were, you know, that far down the road

2778
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:26,800
with marketing. So I think I think there was a

2779
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:30,560
fair amount of legitimacy to that the issue. So how

2780
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:33,239
much credit do they deserve, I'm not sure. I do

2781
02:04:33,319 --> 02:04:35,319
think they at least explored it. The problem is they

2782
02:04:35,399 --> 02:04:38,680
didn't connect on anything. And if your if your issue

2783
02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:43,239
with this team is despite having three new guys on

2784
02:04:43,359 --> 02:04:46,920
board that are all we agree positive value and our

2785
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:50,960
rotation caliber or better guys, maybe you're even better net

2786
02:04:51,399 --> 02:04:54,239
with Melton and whatever than you were with Klay Thompson

2787
02:04:54,279 --> 02:04:56,439
and Chris Paul. Like that's a that's a credible argument

2788
02:04:56,520 --> 02:04:58,680
you can make, is these three new guys make the

2789
02:04:59,159 --> 02:05:01,359
roster top to bottom better than it was last year.

2790
02:05:02,039 --> 02:05:05,880
Totally legit case to make. The problem is, unless you

2791
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:08,680
think it's gonna be cominga or Pods or good Andrew

2792
02:05:08,680 --> 02:05:11,479
Wiggins is going to re emerge somehow, there's no second

2793
02:05:11,800 --> 02:05:14,239
guy here to take the load off of Steph Curry.

2794
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:17,119
And that is the problem with this team. If you're

2795
02:05:17,199 --> 02:05:19,800
trying to serve Steph Curry and make these last couple

2796
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:22,680
of years of his prime worth it. We've talked about

2797
02:05:22,680 --> 02:05:24,560
this all the time, like it's just this is the

2798
02:05:24,640 --> 02:05:27,159
issue with this team is who's the guy that is

2799
02:05:27,239 --> 02:05:29,279
going to be enough of a threat for defenses to

2800
02:05:29,399 --> 02:05:31,479
not just send everything at Steph and make his life

2801
02:05:31,600 --> 02:05:36,439
so hard. They didn't do that. But so that's the criticism, right,

2802
02:05:36,479 --> 02:05:38,359
if you want to go below average, you could say

2803
02:05:38,439 --> 02:05:40,600
that they did not address the biggest issue they have,

2804
02:05:40,760 --> 02:05:43,279
which is super pressing because Steph is in his late thirties.

2805
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:47,600
But are we sure Paul George or marketing at those

2806
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:50,399
prices would have been enough to make this a top

2807
02:05:50,479 --> 02:05:53,239
four team in the West. I don't know, Like I'm

2808
02:05:53,279 --> 02:05:53,960
not sure.

2809
02:05:54,239 --> 02:05:56,079
Speaker 1: I think Paul George would have been But there's a

2810
02:05:56,119 --> 02:05:59,039
sustainability element to where now you've decided like after the

2811
02:05:59,119 --> 02:06:01,760
next two years, like we're absolutely fucked it and we're

2812
02:06:01,880 --> 02:06:02,479
just talking.

2813
02:06:02,279 --> 02:06:04,079
Speaker 2: About top four in the West, and you got this

2814
02:06:04,239 --> 02:06:06,840
a one year window maybe and you got no, like

2815
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:12,079
your landing is rough after it, So like it's I

2816
02:06:12,199 --> 02:06:15,239
think maybe where they deserve credit is like not getting

2817
02:06:15,319 --> 02:06:17,840
stupid with giving up stuff that wasn't gonna make them

2818
02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:20,119
good enough. So if you're going high grade, I think

2819
02:06:20,199 --> 02:06:22,159
that's the way you look at it. For me more

2820
02:06:22,239 --> 02:06:24,159
so than like, oh I like Melton at twelve point

2821
02:06:24,199 --> 02:06:26,520
eight and I like Anderson at nine a year, it's

2822
02:06:26,600 --> 02:06:30,640
more just like they resisted the temptation to like do

2823
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:33,039
the like, well, this is as close as we can

2824
02:06:33,159 --> 02:06:34,680
get to the type of move we need to make.

2825
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:37,079
But it ain't it Like it's a kind of it's

2826
02:06:37,159 --> 02:06:40,359
like a low key, a complicated, I think set of calculations. Ultimately,

2827
02:06:40,840 --> 02:06:43,279
I'm above it. I'm positive on the season, I'm not

2828
02:06:43,319 --> 02:06:44,880
sure how on the off season, I'm not sure how

2829
02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:47,039
high I want to go because I'm super open to

2830
02:06:47,119 --> 02:06:50,039
the idea of like keep it simple. You have Steph.

2831
02:06:50,199 --> 02:06:52,880
You did not get him a number two guy that

2832
02:06:53,079 --> 02:06:55,399
is going to really move the needle. So take that out.

2833
02:06:56,039 --> 02:06:58,720
Speaker 1: Also argue I ultimately think I throw it out the

2834
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:02,119
window the pursuits because they're mostly a good thing, But

2835
02:07:02,439 --> 02:07:05,960
you could also argue relative to the resources that they have,

2836
02:07:06,199 --> 02:07:08,920
like what were you actually actually expecting them? Like the

2837
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:12,520
Paul George and Larry marketing opportunities were ones that kind

2838
02:07:12,520 --> 02:07:14,319
of arose in the moment. Maybe marketing we kind of

2839
02:07:14,319 --> 02:07:16,399
always floated around for them, but like they were sort

2840
02:07:16,439 --> 02:07:20,000
of an eleventh hour entry into the Paul George sweepstakes,

2841
02:07:20,159 --> 02:07:22,479
and it's just like they, yeah, they have stuff to trade,

2842
02:07:22,560 --> 02:07:25,239
but like they don't have the most navigab global books.

2843
02:07:25,560 --> 02:07:26,640
And I think we kind of saw that with the

2844
02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:29,680
Paul George discussions, was like the Clippers didn't want ter Wigins.

2845
02:07:29,960 --> 02:07:30,159
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2846
02:07:30,279 --> 02:07:33,000
Speaker 1: So the thing that I'm having an issue I think

2847
02:07:33,039 --> 02:07:35,359
I'm I don't think I know on POD's I mean,

2848
02:07:35,439 --> 02:07:38,479
keeping Steph for another year is just big time objectively,

2849
02:07:38,920 --> 02:07:41,520
But like I'm trying to understand the theory of Kyle

2850
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:45,640
Anderson on this team because I don't know like what

2851
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:48,399
lineup constructions he fits into, and I know the playmaking

2852
02:07:48,479 --> 02:07:51,920
element is just like who is their second best passer?

2853
02:07:52,119 --> 02:07:54,039
I mean the two best so it's Dre and Steph,

2854
02:07:55,399 --> 02:07:57,680
but that I guess it's Kyle Anderson after that, am

2855
02:07:57,680 --> 02:07:58,640
I forgetting somebody?

2856
02:07:58,800 --> 02:07:58,920
Speaker 2: Is it?

2857
02:07:59,000 --> 02:07:59,840
Speaker 1: Do we think it's Pod?

2858
02:08:00,039 --> 02:08:02,840
Speaker 2: I mean Pods is in the conversation probably, but yeah, no,

2859
02:08:02,960 --> 02:08:05,960
you're point taken like he I think the theory of

2860
02:08:06,039 --> 02:08:08,840
Anderson is he approximates some of what Draymond Greed and

2861
02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:10,880
Donal does on offense. And if you're not going to

2862
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:12,800
get a second star to take the pressure off Steph,

2863
02:08:13,159 --> 02:08:15,239
getting a guy that who is out there like with

2864
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:18,199
an eye towards just making plays for other people, which

2865
02:08:18,239 --> 02:08:21,159
Anderson is is like sign sort of a side door

2866
02:08:21,479 --> 02:08:24,000
approach to like how do we make it so Stepp

2867
02:08:24,239 --> 02:08:25,560
doesn't have to do everything?

2868
02:08:25,760 --> 02:08:25,880
Speaker 1: You know?

2869
02:08:26,720 --> 02:08:29,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, like Anderson is, it's a weird fit because

2870
02:08:29,720 --> 02:08:32,279
you like, the Warriors don't newsplash, the Worries don't have

2871
02:08:32,359 --> 02:08:36,319
a spacing big and so Anderson sort of like you're cramped,

2872
02:08:36,359 --> 02:08:37,800
spacing gets more cramped if he's.

2873
02:08:37,720 --> 02:08:40,760
Speaker 1: Out there and you can't like he's not playing with Draymond.

2874
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:43,560
Speaker 2: Basically wouldn't. I wouldn't think, although like, hey, Draymond's a

2875
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:45,680
good shooter now, you know, if you saw last year

2876
02:08:46,039 --> 02:08:47,960
isn't it once every half decade. He's a good shooter,

2877
02:08:48,159 --> 02:08:50,359
So have to wait till twenty twenty nine for the

2878
02:08:50,399 --> 02:08:50,800
next one.

2879
02:08:51,600 --> 02:08:55,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I mean, yeah, what are you thinking?

2880
02:08:56,600 --> 02:08:59,039
Speaker 2: I'm thinking in the B range just because I do

2881
02:08:59,239 --> 02:09:02,079
think it was to resist the temptation to give up

2882
02:09:02,079 --> 02:09:03,640
a bunch of young guys, and I think it was

2883
02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:07,680
ultimately the right decision for what was out there. And

2884
02:09:07,840 --> 02:09:10,960
and like even if we if we cut out the

2885
02:09:11,039 --> 02:09:12,640
last ten minutes where I turned it to like the

2886
02:09:12,720 --> 02:09:15,039
macro discussion and just look at the signings that they

2887
02:09:15,119 --> 02:09:18,079
made for what those signings cost, like, they're all good.

2888
02:09:18,279 --> 02:09:21,159
They're all positive value, right, Like even Anderson's tradable at

2889
02:09:21,199 --> 02:09:22,159
that number for value.

2890
02:09:23,079 --> 02:09:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. And so I have two follow

2891
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:28,720
up questions for you though, based off their offseason. So

2892
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:31,600
Klay Thompson out, but Kyle Anderson, the Anty Meltain buddy

2893
02:09:31,600 --> 02:09:35,560
healed in. Are they more or less likely to give

2894
02:09:35,640 --> 02:09:37,720
Moses Moody a real regular role?

2895
02:09:38,159 --> 02:09:41,439
Speaker 2: That's the I think they're equally unlikely, which sucks because

2896
02:09:41,479 --> 02:09:43,880
the guy just I mean, like he hasn't you know,

2897
02:09:44,079 --> 02:09:46,720
Warriors fans go nuts about him, and like he's had

2898
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:49,119
stretches where he definitely deserves to play, But like, you're

2899
02:09:49,159 --> 02:09:51,319
playing Melton over him, aren't you. And I think you're

2900
02:09:51,359 --> 02:09:53,279
playing If you need someone to come in off the

2901
02:09:53,319 --> 02:09:55,720
bench to shoot, you're gonna look at Buddy Heel before

2902
02:09:55,720 --> 02:09:56,439
you look at Moody.

2903
02:09:56,960 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 1: But doesn't he sort of I mean in terms of

2904
02:10:00,159 --> 02:10:04,039
just conceptually, isn't he the bridge between the two or

2905
02:10:04,079 --> 02:10:05,880
the meld off the two, where so we need someone

2906
02:10:05,920 --> 02:10:08,840
who maybe gives us more volume than Melton, maybe moves

2907
02:10:09,039 --> 02:10:11,239
well off the ball better than Melton, but we don't

2908
02:10:11,279 --> 02:10:14,600
compromise our defense by throwing Buddy Healed out there. I think, like, Buddy,

2909
02:10:14,600 --> 02:10:16,560
you have fought at times in Indiana, but he's just

2910
02:10:16,640 --> 02:10:20,319
like not a good defender. So, but you're also trying

2911
02:10:20,319 --> 02:10:21,880
to juggle with the immediacy. But I don't know that

2912
02:10:21,920 --> 02:10:25,920
I've ever watched Moses Moody and looked at him and thought, well,

2913
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:27,720
like he should just never be playing.

2914
02:10:28,119 --> 02:10:32,119
Speaker 2: I know, I think my take on him has sort

2915
02:10:32,159 --> 02:10:34,720
of evolved to the point of like he's always going

2916
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:36,880
to be a pretty good option for whatever you need

2917
02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:40,039
from that position, but there has tended to be someone

2918
02:10:40,359 --> 02:10:43,840
who's like better at the one thing you might need like, oh,

2919
02:10:43,880 --> 02:10:46,119
we need to we need the capslock shooting, we need

2920
02:10:46,199 --> 02:10:48,960
the clampdown defense, we need what like. There's always been

2921
02:10:49,079 --> 02:10:50,840
somebody like it used to be, well we got some

2922
02:10:51,079 --> 02:10:52,640
put someone out there to guard somebody. It's like, well,

2923
02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:54,640
Gary Payton's on the roster, that's like why that guy

2924
02:10:54,800 --> 02:10:57,199
is in the league, so we're gonna pick him. There's

2925
02:10:57,199 --> 02:10:59,840
always been somebody who's been more of a specialist. That's

2926
02:10:59,880 --> 02:11:02,000
just it's been easier to justify putting out there. I

2927
02:11:02,079 --> 02:11:04,560
think Moody should play more than he does. I don't

2928
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:06,279
know if the roster is set up any better to

2929
02:11:06,359 --> 02:11:07,159
allow that than it.

2930
02:11:07,239 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 1: Used to be.

2931
02:11:08,359 --> 02:11:08,399
Speaker 2: No.

2932
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:11,439
Speaker 1: My second question was based off how this offseason unfolded,

2933
02:11:11,520 --> 02:11:14,119
with the reporting mainly and then even just the moves

2934
02:11:14,159 --> 02:11:17,119
that they made. Would you say that they are more

2935
02:11:17,359 --> 02:11:21,680
or less likely to go in on I guess you

2936
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:25,119
would call it a consolidation trade if the opportunity presents

2937
02:11:25,159 --> 02:11:26,880
itself in the middle of the season.

2938
02:11:28,039 --> 02:11:33,000
Speaker 2: I would say. My cop out answer would be everything

2939
02:11:33,119 --> 02:11:37,439
depends on how Kaminga and Pajemski look before the trade deadline,

2940
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:41,039
because if Kaminga is that second guy or plays well

2941
02:11:41,159 --> 02:11:43,239
enough to suggest he'll be that in a year or two,

2942
02:11:43,960 --> 02:11:48,880
then that changes the calculus. But ultimately I think they

2943
02:11:49,039 --> 02:11:51,760
probably just the fact that they were kind of looking

2944
02:11:51,880 --> 02:11:54,439
around and the fact that they got stepped for another

2945
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:58,720
year makes me think they're more likely than you know,

2946
02:11:59,000 --> 02:12:00,920
I don't know, more likely than what like, more likely

2947
02:12:01,000 --> 02:12:03,600
than they were this offseason or just like, I think

2948
02:12:03,640 --> 02:12:06,800
they're highly likely to be in discussions for this type

2949
02:12:06,840 --> 02:12:09,880
of thing up to and through the deadline, and there's

2950
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:12,520
a decent chance that they actually do something right.

2951
02:12:12,560 --> 02:12:15,039
Speaker 1: Because what I found fascinating is one I do think

2952
02:12:15,039 --> 02:12:17,079
it's harder to make those moves mid season, not just

2953
02:12:17,159 --> 02:12:20,279
in terms of what's accessible to you, but just conceptually

2954
02:12:20,359 --> 02:12:22,439
of are we going to have the time to integrate

2955
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:24,359
this player or is this like we're kind of taking

2956
02:12:24,439 --> 02:12:27,319
a gap half season then, But then two, we've tried

2957
02:12:27,359 --> 02:12:30,000
to spend time who is the player that makes the

2958
02:12:30,079 --> 02:12:31,960
most sense or the archetype of player that makes the

2959
02:12:31,960 --> 02:12:34,039
most sense to them to go after, only to not

2960
02:12:34,199 --> 02:12:37,560
even come close to reaching a consensus on if that

2961
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:39,920
player exists to elevate this team to contention. And then

2962
02:12:39,960 --> 02:12:42,439
you look at the players they looked at seriously, at

2963
02:12:42,520 --> 02:12:45,239
least per reports in Paul George and Larry market and

2964
02:12:46,159 --> 02:12:49,680
not like very good players, but not on the same web,

2965
02:12:49,800 --> 02:12:52,439
not the same archetype of whatever. And so it's are

2966
02:12:52,520 --> 02:12:56,239
they not that they are they haphazardly now considering making updates?

2967
02:12:56,279 --> 02:12:58,600
Are they just more open to it to okay, well,

2968
02:12:58,600 --> 02:12:59,960
the guy we get like, it's not going to be

2969
02:13:00,239 --> 02:13:03,039
the guy necessarily that fills all the boxes, but it'll

2970
02:13:03,079 --> 02:13:05,159
still elevate us. And so my read on it was

2971
02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:09,039
it does seem and maybe we're overstating how serious the

2972
02:13:09,119 --> 02:13:12,199
negotiations were, but maybe they're now opening the idea of, okay,

2973
02:13:12,239 --> 02:13:14,560
we would make a big move and we recognize that

2974
02:13:14,600 --> 02:13:16,479
there is no perfect move out there, so we are

2975
02:13:16,560 --> 02:13:20,520
going to quote unquote settle for just okay, this works,

2976
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:23,279
it makes us better. But is it necessarily ideal deal

2977
02:13:23,399 --> 02:13:26,039
or does a guarantee us entry into title contention? That'll

2978
02:13:26,079 --> 02:13:28,399
be more so a matter of course than anything that's certain.

2979
02:13:28,920 --> 02:13:31,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think the simplest way to

2980
02:13:31,640 --> 02:13:34,359
put it is there was a clear willingness to explore

2981
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:38,279
like a huge trade, and ultimately they didn't. They didn't

2982
02:13:38,399 --> 02:13:41,159
think the guys that were available justified what they would

2983
02:13:41,159 --> 02:13:43,159
have had to give up. And maybe that changes I

2984
02:13:43,840 --> 02:13:47,039
by February. Maybe it doesn't. I think I would say, well,

2985
02:13:47,079 --> 02:13:48,720
I do think they're still going to be very much

2986
02:13:49,359 --> 02:13:51,920
like proactive and looking for stuff. I think they're okay

2987
02:13:52,039 --> 02:13:54,640
with where they are because I do they clearly believe

2988
02:13:54,680 --> 02:13:57,119
in Pajemski, and I think they believe in Kaminga. No

2989
02:13:57,199 --> 02:14:01,399
extension yet, but he is eligible. I think they I

2990
02:14:01,520 --> 02:14:05,119
think certainly ownership to hear them, to hear Joe lakeb

2991
02:14:05,159 --> 02:14:07,039
tell it is like, well, here we've got two all

2992
02:14:07,079 --> 02:14:09,479
stars ready to ready to rock like starting this year,

2993
02:14:09,920 --> 02:14:12,720
in addition to Curry. I can't quite get there. But

2994
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:15,039
you know me like I've been. I've been on the

2995
02:14:15,119 --> 02:14:18,319
Kaminga train from day one, and I realized how irrational

2996
02:14:18,359 --> 02:14:20,840
I am about it. But I'm okay as a fan

2997
02:14:21,039 --> 02:14:23,479
with Let's let's see what the young guys can do

2998
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:26,640
and then if it doesn't like satisfy, we can start

2999
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:29,399
looking at other stuff again, don't I'm with it? So

3000
02:14:30,399 --> 02:14:32,439
where are we ending up? I'm going to be I'll

3001
02:14:32,439 --> 02:14:32,680
go be.

3002
02:14:33,159 --> 02:14:36,800
Speaker 1: I think it be is fair. The next team is

3003
02:14:37,720 --> 02:14:40,319
your just giving them to you Los Angeles Clippers. I

3004
02:14:40,319 --> 02:14:42,680
don't want ownership of them, but they're actually by team

3005
02:14:42,840 --> 02:14:46,039
to go through. So they signed Tylero to a three year,

3006
02:14:46,079 --> 02:14:49,319
seventy million dollar a five year seventy million dollar extension.

3007
02:14:49,439 --> 02:14:52,079
Excuse me, pretty good move by them. We like Tyroue

3008
02:14:52,199 --> 02:14:55,439
Tyloo around these parts. They drafted Cameron Christie at number

3009
02:14:55,479 --> 02:14:58,039
forty six. They signed James Harden for two years seventy

3010
02:14:58,079 --> 02:15:01,800
million with a player option in twenty six, Derrek Jones

3011
02:15:01,880 --> 02:15:03,239
Junior three years thirty million.

3012
02:15:03,279 --> 02:15:05,119
Speaker 2: That was most of the non tax payer mle.

3013
02:15:05,560 --> 02:15:08,520
Speaker 1: They traded Russell Westbrook a twenty thirty second round swap

3014
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:10,640
and four point three million dollars in cash to Utah

3015
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:13,119
to get Chris done on a three year, sixteen point

3016
02:15:13,159 --> 02:15:15,960
three million dollar deal. The final season is not guaranteed.

3017
02:15:16,560 --> 02:15:18,760
They signed Kevin Porter Junior for two years four point

3018
02:15:18,800 --> 02:15:20,960
eight million dollars. He apparently had the leverage to get

3019
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:24,079
a player option. Nicholas Patuma's back two years nine point

3020
02:15:24,119 --> 02:15:27,520
six million, that's at the bi annual exception, Mobamba one

3021
02:15:27,600 --> 02:15:29,840
year minimum and a Vita Zubats just a couple of

3022
02:15:29,880 --> 02:15:32,760
days before recording this three year, fifty eight point six

3023
02:15:32,880 --> 02:15:35,640
million dollar extension. Just for some context, that's gonna be

3024
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:40,000
about twelve to thirteen percent of the salary cap moving forward. Uh, PJ.

3025
02:15:40,159 --> 02:15:43,079
Tucker picked up his eleven point five million dollar player option,

3026
02:15:43,520 --> 02:15:45,640
and Paul George grant. I don't know if you heard,

3027
02:15:45,680 --> 02:15:48,439
but he left and signed with the Sixers.

3028
02:15:49,399 --> 02:15:50,479
Speaker 2: Who what do you?

3029
02:15:51,039 --> 02:15:54,199
Speaker 1: I man? So yeah, take it away.

3030
02:15:55,199 --> 02:15:58,680
Speaker 2: So the issue that I have is, like, I like

3031
02:15:59,039 --> 02:16:03,159
several of the things they did. I don't understand drawing

3032
02:16:03,199 --> 02:16:07,000
a line on Paul George where they did, and then

3033
02:16:07,159 --> 02:16:10,399
going and giving hard and more money, and like you're

3034
02:16:10,439 --> 02:16:12,199
obviously willing to spend in general. I know it's not

3035
02:16:12,239 --> 02:16:14,159
a salary cap situation because it's a coach, but you

3036
02:16:14,199 --> 02:16:16,800
give Lou the extension he gives you. Now Zubats is

3037
02:16:16,880 --> 02:16:19,199
a salary cap situation because he's on the roster. You

3038
02:16:19,279 --> 02:16:22,000
give him the money. Like you go sign Batoom, you

3039
02:16:22,159 --> 02:16:24,479
bring on Chris Dunn for more than I thought he

3040
02:16:24,520 --> 02:16:26,960
would get, even though I like him. It's just like,

3041
02:16:27,079 --> 02:16:30,560
why why not just retain Paul George at that number

3042
02:16:31,039 --> 02:16:33,360
where there was interest around the league from the Warriors.

3043
02:16:33,399 --> 02:16:36,040
The Warriors reportedly would have paid him that the Sixers

3044
02:16:36,120 --> 02:16:38,639
did pay him. That there's a market for Paul George

3045
02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:42,600
at that number. This is the christ like the marketing

3046
02:16:42,680 --> 02:16:45,000
thing too. In the KCP argument, it's the same idea,

3047
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:47,280
just keep the guy and then trade him if you

3048
02:16:47,319 --> 02:16:49,799
don't want him, Like you'll get something for the guy.

3049
02:16:49,840 --> 02:16:53,719
I don't understand letting him go over money essentially, and then.

3050
02:16:55,799 --> 02:16:58,159
Speaker 1: What's that N'll get to ash logic except they don't

3051
02:16:58,200 --> 02:16:59,520
have any young guys in the pipeline.

3052
02:16:59,799 --> 02:17:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, uets tast logic. So that that's where I That's

3053
02:17:02,719 --> 02:17:04,840
where I'm fixated, right, That is the core issue is

3054
02:17:04,920 --> 02:17:07,559
like why why not Paul George too? If you're doing

3055
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:08,399
all this other stuff.

3056
02:17:08,639 --> 02:17:10,319
Speaker 1: I mean, look, as you mentioned the other rooms, the

3057
02:17:10,399 --> 02:17:13,959
Zubots extension is gonna age fantastic. I like it. One

3058
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:16,000
of the most effective RIOM protectors last year.

3059
02:17:16,079 --> 02:17:17,680
Speaker 2: I liked the Derek Jones junior signing.

3060
02:17:18,079 --> 02:17:21,559
Speaker 1: Now you couldn't have made Derek Jones junior signing or

3061
02:17:21,719 --> 02:17:24,200
and you also could not have gotten h Nicholas patuone

3062
02:17:24,200 --> 02:17:25,079
because you wouldn't.

3063
02:17:24,760 --> 02:17:25,360
Speaker 2: Have had the bi annual.

3064
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:26,600
Speaker 1: Sure had you kept Paul George.

3065
02:17:27,360 --> 02:17:28,280
Speaker 2: That's fine. Now.

3066
02:17:28,479 --> 02:17:31,440
Speaker 1: My whole thing here is I've seen some people, and

3067
02:17:31,680 --> 02:17:34,840
I respect anyone's opinions that's prepared to elaborate. I said, no,

3068
02:17:34,920 --> 02:17:38,319
they're better off without Paul George. You already hit the

3069
02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:40,280
nail on the head when you said, then you trade

3070
02:17:40,360 --> 02:17:42,600
him later, or I'll take it one step further. If

3071
02:17:42,639 --> 02:17:45,920
you from the moment you extended Kawhi, if you weren't

3072
02:17:45,920 --> 02:17:48,719
prepared to give George the exact same deal which he

3073
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:51,920
said and which other reporters have confirmed he was willing

3074
02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:54,200
to take in the middle of the season, you should

3075
02:17:54,239 --> 02:17:58,120
have traded him. That. That's it's inexcusable. You don't get

3076
02:17:58,159 --> 02:18:00,680
the hide behind the second apron when we know that

3077
02:18:00,799 --> 02:18:03,280
you offer him a deal that still would have put

3078
02:18:03,319 --> 02:18:05,159
you in the second apron. So the thinking would have been,

3079
02:18:05,200 --> 02:18:08,680
what he's on the books for an additional year over Kawhi,

3080
02:18:09,200 --> 02:18:11,360
trade him, or it's like maybe Kauhi still on the

3081
02:18:11,399 --> 02:18:13,840
books at that point if he signs another contract. There's

3082
02:18:14,360 --> 02:18:17,280
I don't understand the rational now here at all. The

3083
02:18:17,440 --> 02:18:19,719
only way that I think you could go back and

3084
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:23,159
say that you understand it in a re great situation

3085
02:18:23,239 --> 02:18:25,520
would be do they find takers for Kawhi Leonard and

3086
02:18:25,600 --> 02:18:28,479
James Harden and get assets for that and begin anew

3087
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:31,760
here's my issue. You still could have traded Paul George

3088
02:18:31,760 --> 02:18:33,799
and gotten asset. And I'm not even saying the Warriors deal.

3089
02:18:34,079 --> 02:18:36,000
Given the direction that they headed, I understand why you

3090
02:18:36,040 --> 02:18:38,200
wouldn't have want like if you had Andrew Wiggins on

3091
02:18:38,239 --> 02:18:39,959
the books through all this, or like I'd been even

3092
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:42,639
more confused is to why not just pay Paul George

3093
02:18:42,680 --> 02:18:44,840
the extra? Yeah, okay, it's like double the money. Like

3094
02:18:44,959 --> 02:18:47,280
I'd rather have Paul George at double the money. So

3095
02:18:49,600 --> 02:18:52,760
why is this anything like you can like, I guess

3096
02:18:52,799 --> 02:18:55,520
you have to ask. I'll frame it this way. You

3097
02:18:55,639 --> 02:18:57,719
have to ask whether let's look at the moves that

3098
02:18:57,799 --> 02:18:59,879
we like. The Chris Done edition I think is good.

3099
02:19:00,479 --> 02:19:03,879
I like the Derek Jones Junior audition, the Nick Batum

3100
02:19:03,959 --> 02:19:07,239
recent getting him back good, of Vita Zoobox extension great,

3101
02:19:07,799 --> 02:19:09,479
the Tyler extension. You could have done either way. So

3102
02:19:09,799 --> 02:19:12,639
let's actually look at the moves that you couldn't have made,

3103
02:19:13,239 --> 02:19:16,399
like had you kept Paul George so Ken, Derrek Jones

3104
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:20,239
Junior and Chris Dunn and Nicholas Batoum. How much do

3105
02:19:20,360 --> 02:19:22,760
they offset the F minus minus that they deserve for

3106
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:24,879
the way they handled the poor Paul George situation?

3107
02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:28,760
Speaker 2: Good, good framing, not enough. It still feels like a

3108
02:19:28,920 --> 02:19:33,559
global f right just because it I know it's not

3109
02:19:33,600 --> 02:19:35,639
an either or. I think that that is the right

3110
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:37,120
way to look at it. And and I know this

3111
02:19:37,639 --> 02:19:39,799
when I'm gonna posit here is not an either or.

3112
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:43,440
I just like, why are you giving James Harden seventy

3113
02:19:43,520 --> 02:19:46,399
million dollars even though it's over two years if you're

3114
02:19:46,440 --> 02:19:48,920
not willing to pay Paul George the market rate for

3115
02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:51,639
his services? Because guess what nobody else has given James

3116
02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:54,079
Harden that money? Like, you're not trading James Harden on

3117
02:19:54,159 --> 02:19:56,079
that deal. I don't think maybe I'll be proved wrong.

3118
02:19:56,799 --> 02:19:59,040
Nobody views him as a positive Like I just like,

3119
02:19:59,079 --> 02:20:00,959
who wants a part of this? Like you don't have

3120
02:20:01,120 --> 02:20:02,079
to spend that on him?

3121
02:20:02,479 --> 02:20:05,760
Speaker 1: And then not first for and Wiggan's looney in a

3122
02:20:05,799 --> 02:20:06,959
first for James Harden?

3123
02:20:07,239 --> 02:20:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, shoot it if I just like, I know I'm

3124
02:20:12,319 --> 02:20:15,120
being like hyperbolic about the hardened thing, but like it

3125
02:20:15,319 --> 02:20:18,280
just doesn't square, Like I pick if you just let

3126
02:20:18,360 --> 02:20:20,760
Harden go if it's a money thing, and I just

3127
02:20:20,879 --> 02:20:21,959
I don't know, take.

3128
02:20:21,840 --> 02:20:24,479
Speaker 1: It one step further. Why trade for James Harden the

3129
02:20:24,520 --> 02:20:26,879
first place? If there's any inkling that you might not

3130
02:20:27,079 --> 02:20:30,120
want that you might not be able to or afford

3131
02:20:30,120 --> 02:20:32,040
Paul George or don't want to pay him. Why make

3132
02:20:32,120 --> 02:20:34,200
that trade in the first, Like yeah, to go all

3133
02:20:34,280 --> 02:20:37,479
in on the one season, Like I don't there is

3134
02:20:38,799 --> 02:20:41,280
I still think like the zoobots extend, like the Zubots

3135
02:20:41,319 --> 02:20:43,440
and Tylu extensions help, But it's I think the great

3136
02:20:43,479 --> 02:20:45,319
overall just has to be an f because there was

3137
02:20:45,399 --> 02:20:48,239
so many missteps then leading up to this point that

3138
02:20:48,399 --> 02:20:50,760
and it wasn't like they needed to see how like no,

3139
02:20:50,959 --> 02:20:54,239
you knew at bare minimum once Kawhi Leonard put pen

3140
02:20:54,280 --> 02:20:56,639
to paper on his extension, like you kind of knew,

3141
02:20:56,719 --> 02:20:58,319
and I guess his extension did it come after? It

3142
02:20:58,360 --> 02:20:59,520
came after the trade deadline?

3143
02:20:59,559 --> 02:20:59,680
Speaker 2: Right?

3144
02:21:00,479 --> 02:21:03,000
Speaker 1: But like you you knew the numbers like that were

3145
02:21:03,000 --> 02:21:05,639
floating around out like this is this My point is

3146
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:08,879
the extension didn't happen overnight, like these were negotiations that

3147
02:21:08,959 --> 02:21:12,559
were ongoing. And so if you weren't ever prepared to

3148
02:21:12,680 --> 02:21:15,040
give Paul George at least three years at the max,

3149
02:21:16,479 --> 02:21:18,479
why like why was he still on your roster past

3150
02:21:18,520 --> 02:21:19,159
the trade deadline?

3151
02:21:19,280 --> 02:21:21,920
Speaker 2: Well, and like just on the timing element of it,

3152
02:21:22,040 --> 02:21:25,239
they were both extension eligible before the season started and

3153
02:21:25,319 --> 02:21:27,520
I think we gave the Clippers good grades because they

3154
02:21:27,639 --> 02:21:29,399
didn't extend them ahead of time.

3155
02:21:29,879 --> 02:21:32,959
Speaker 1: But by the way Kui Leonards extension happened in the

3156
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:35,760
middle of January. Okay, that makes it even worse, makes

3157
02:21:35,760 --> 02:21:36,399
it even worse.

3158
02:21:36,479 --> 02:21:38,719
Speaker 2: And it was already bad because like clearly there were

3159
02:21:38,840 --> 02:21:42,399
numbers out there a year ago right from now, and

3160
02:21:42,559 --> 02:21:44,719
and like it would be insane to think that like

3161
02:21:45,319 --> 02:21:48,799
George and his representation and Leonard and his didn't know

3162
02:21:49,000 --> 02:21:51,639
like kind of where the numbers were gonna be for

3163
02:21:51,879 --> 02:21:53,719
like as far as extension offers. And then the fact

3164
02:21:53,760 --> 02:21:56,520
that Kawhi signed is before the deadline, and then they

3165
02:21:56,559 --> 02:21:59,000
don't trade George because at that point you must know

3166
02:21:59,079 --> 02:22:01,200
if because we we talked about it, like, well, that's

3167
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:04,239
a little weird that George hasn't signed an identical extension yet, right,

3168
02:22:04,360 --> 02:22:07,799
Like that's strange. It means I don't value him the

3169
02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:09,520
same way, so and trade him.

3170
02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:11,520
Speaker 1: Right, And at the beginning we kind of pen but

3171
02:22:12,159 --> 02:22:13,879
that's the benefit of finds. At the beginning, we pends

3172
02:22:13,879 --> 02:22:16,000
on it. Oh, it'll just happen. But then it got

3173
02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:18,760
to a point, so what are they negotiated? And so

3174
02:22:19,079 --> 02:22:21,280
I just and the stuff that they offered him was

3175
02:22:21,360 --> 02:22:24,520
borderline stupid. What was it, like the extension and then

3176
02:22:24,559 --> 02:22:26,239
we'll give you two for sixty if you pick up

3177
02:22:26,239 --> 02:22:26,920
your player option.

3178
02:22:27,319 --> 02:22:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was coming through him though, and it felt

3179
02:22:29,520 --> 02:22:32,879
a little weird, like but point taken like that, So

3180
02:22:33,120 --> 02:22:35,520
it's just an f I even And that's with liking

3181
02:22:36,280 --> 02:22:38,360
a lot of what they did outside of the but

3182
02:22:38,479 --> 02:22:40,799
the George thing just feels egregious and it's a little

3183
02:22:40,879 --> 02:22:42,879
risky to pin so much of the grade on one move,

3184
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:46,559
but like, it just it it doesn't make sense to

3185
02:22:46,680 --> 02:22:48,479
me from any perspective.

3186
02:22:49,159 --> 02:22:51,360
Speaker 1: No, it's the move that took them from Okay, if

3187
02:22:51,399 --> 02:22:54,440
things break right, they could be a title threat to

3188
02:22:55,360 --> 02:22:57,440
Like this team isn't in the like there's there's much

3189
02:22:57,520 --> 02:23:01,200
the path, Like are they in the top six, top eight? Like,

3190
02:23:01,280 --> 02:23:03,000
what's their best case outcome is playing?

3191
02:23:03,879 --> 02:23:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's got to be an

3192
02:23:06,040 --> 02:23:08,079
f like you just can't mess up the big stuff.

3193
02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:11,959
Speaker 1: Like this next team they have a little bit fewer

3194
02:23:12,040 --> 02:23:15,280
moves to grade. So all your Los Angeles Lakers.

3195
02:23:15,239 --> 02:23:17,280
Speaker 2: Alright, in mine, I'll take them. So they fired Darvin

3196
02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:20,440
Ham replaced him with JJ Reddick after a dalliance with

3197
02:23:20,600 --> 02:23:22,760
some other coaches. It ends up being Reddick four years

3198
02:23:22,760 --> 02:23:24,600
for thirty two million for him. Don't really care about

3199
02:23:24,600 --> 02:23:27,040
the numbers, but that's what it is. Drafted Dalton Connect

3200
02:23:27,040 --> 02:23:30,399
at number seventeen, Brownie James at fifty five. Max Christie

3201
02:23:30,479 --> 02:23:32,559
got four years and thirty two million dollars. There's a

3202
02:23:32,600 --> 02:23:35,079
twenty seven to twenty player option for Max Christy on

3203
02:23:35,159 --> 02:23:39,040
that deal. Lebron extended two years was an extension. I

3204
02:23:39,079 --> 02:23:41,440
can't remember a new deal anyway, two years, one hundred

3205
02:23:41,440 --> 02:23:44,280
and one point point three million player option on the

3206
02:23:44,319 --> 02:23:50,319
second signed Blake Hinson and Armelt triore to two ways gone,

3207
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:55,120
Christian Wood or slash Sorry extension questions. Christian Wood, D'Angelo

3208
02:23:55,239 --> 02:23:58,120
Russell now on an expiring deal, Jackson, Hayes, cam reddis

3209
02:23:58,159 --> 02:24:02,920
picked up player options. So uh man. The party line

3210
02:24:02,959 --> 02:24:04,760
on this team is it's not different enough from last

3211
02:24:04,840 --> 02:24:06,719
year and you're not getting all these games from Lebron

3212
02:24:06,799 --> 02:24:10,639
and AD So where are we going with this one? Dan?

3213
02:24:13,920 --> 02:24:16,760
Speaker 1: I just okay. So I don't even know how to

3214
02:24:16,879 --> 02:24:19,479
grade the JJ Reddick higher. I do find it curious

3215
02:24:19,559 --> 02:24:22,840
that they went with another first time head coach when

3216
02:24:22,879 --> 02:24:27,000
you have Lebron going into his age forty season, and

3217
02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:30,559
I do think they've kind of telegraphed and even just

3218
02:24:30,600 --> 02:24:32,840
through some of the comments about like even do you

3219
02:24:32,879 --> 02:24:35,680
remember the framing of the JJ Reddick higher was, oh,

3220
02:24:35,719 --> 02:24:37,959
he'll be able to help like continue to develop Max

3221
02:24:38,159 --> 02:24:41,520
Christy and Austin Reeves, and so it seems like they're

3222
02:24:41,520 --> 02:24:44,760
trying to telegraph that they're really emphasizing the error beyond

3223
02:24:45,399 --> 02:24:51,399
Lebron James, which just feels brain bendingly stupid. When you

3224
02:24:51,520 --> 02:24:53,360
have Lebron James. This isn't the saying that JJ Redick

3225
02:24:53,360 --> 02:24:56,440
will be a bad coach. If that informs your other moves,

3226
02:24:56,559 --> 02:25:00,200
specifically your non moves of let's not make it any

3227
02:25:00,239 --> 02:25:03,319
trades to upgrade the roster, and like now you're like

3228
02:25:03,440 --> 02:25:05,639
you even have a roster spot crunch because you gave

3229
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:07,879
all these other dudes and Cam Reddish and Jackson Hayes

3230
02:25:08,159 --> 02:25:11,040
and Christian Wood those player options, but then you got

3231
02:25:11,159 --> 02:25:14,079
Lebron and what was clearly like a pr thing for

3232
02:25:14,239 --> 02:25:16,399
like I guess him, but like he still took one

3233
02:25:16,399 --> 02:25:19,159
point three million less and now you're talking about, well,

3234
02:25:19,399 --> 02:25:22,040
you're within like one hundred thousand dollars. The second apron.

3235
02:25:22,360 --> 02:25:25,920
You've done nothing with that quote unquote flexibility, which what

3236
02:25:26,040 --> 02:25:27,399
I keep coming back to, by the way, is that

3237
02:25:27,479 --> 02:25:30,399
they could have just constructed a trade that saved them

3238
02:25:30,440 --> 02:25:33,000
two million dollars and aggregated that they finished below the

3239
02:25:33,040 --> 02:25:36,079
second Apron again, but it makes them look even worse.

3240
02:25:36,120 --> 02:25:38,319
And was that the point of what Clutch and Lebron

3241
02:25:38,399 --> 02:25:40,520
wanted to do of like the Lakers under the second

3242
02:25:40,520 --> 02:25:41,959
Apron and they didn't make a trade like, good for

3243
02:25:42,079 --> 02:25:44,079
you if hopefully that puts pressure on them to do

3244
02:25:44,239 --> 02:25:47,680
something before the season still or before the offseason. And

3245
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:51,440
we talked about this with the uh what oh the

3246
02:25:51,479 --> 02:25:54,959
Timberwolves and Rob Dillingham. Do not sit here and tell

3247
02:25:55,079 --> 02:25:57,239
me you don't. You don't get to say this right now.

3248
02:25:57,360 --> 02:25:59,600
You can hope for it, you could predict it, you

3249
02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:02,520
cannot great it as a reality that Dalton connect is

3250
02:26:02,600 --> 02:26:05,200
gonna come in as the seventeenth overall pick and have

3251
02:26:05,319 --> 02:26:07,719
this immediate impact on a team that is trying to

3252
02:26:07,760 --> 02:26:11,840
win basketball games. It almost never works like that. Like, man,

3253
02:26:11,920 --> 02:26:15,239
they upgraded the Tory in print spot. No they fucking didn't, right, No,

3254
02:26:15,399 --> 02:26:17,799
they did not. This team has no wings? What is

3255
02:26:17,879 --> 02:26:20,520
Ruyachi Mora Cam Reddish or the closest they have to

3256
02:26:20,680 --> 02:26:23,200
like wings and the only one of those dudes is playable.

3257
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:28,040
This is like it's not disgraceful because they probably weren't

3258
02:26:28,079 --> 02:26:31,239
gonna be that good anyway, but like it's like it's

3259
02:26:31,319 --> 02:26:33,920
just so it's so dumb, like just doing like how

3260
02:26:33,959 --> 02:26:36,639
do you do nothing? Do you do?

3261
02:26:36,760 --> 02:26:41,159
Speaker 2: You think? Which which team between the Lakers and the Warriors?

3262
02:26:41,680 --> 02:26:45,360
Is there more justified frustration with like not going for

3263
02:26:45,479 --> 02:26:48,000
it on a risky trade. It's got to be the Lakers, right,

3264
02:26:48,520 --> 02:26:51,760
it is well, no more justifiable to not no, like

3265
02:26:52,079 --> 02:26:55,840
if people are frustrated by Team X not going all

3266
02:26:55,959 --> 02:26:58,479
in on a like win now trade. Oh yes, I

3267
02:26:58,559 --> 02:27:01,200
think the Lakers are more just of that frustration than

3268
02:27:01,200 --> 02:27:03,680
the Warriors because the Warriors have actual young guys that

3269
02:27:03,799 --> 02:27:06,719
they might want to develop. The Lakers like don't have that.

3270
02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:11,159
So I just think this is like it's such a

3271
02:27:11,239 --> 02:27:14,000
talking head thing. But like you have Lebron, you have

3272
02:27:14,120 --> 02:27:16,680
ad even if it's not a perfect trade, even if

3273
02:27:16,719 --> 02:27:18,879
it's Zach Levine or whatever, Like, don't you have to

3274
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:21,440
if you're the Lakers just go do something seismic because

3275
02:27:21,479 --> 02:27:23,600
you aren't good enough. You weren't good enough last year,

3276
02:27:23,920 --> 02:27:27,040
and your team is the same or maybe worse, actually

3277
02:27:27,120 --> 02:27:30,719
definitely worse when you factor in the durability likelihood for

3278
02:27:30,920 --> 02:27:33,319
Lebron and Ad than you were last year. So like,

3279
02:27:33,920 --> 02:27:37,079
what's what's the if the plan is we know someone's

3280
02:27:37,120 --> 02:27:40,200
gonna shake loose before the trade deadline and we're willing

3281
02:27:40,280 --> 02:27:42,280
to give up all the picks we can in Austin

3282
02:27:42,360 --> 02:27:44,959
Reeves and Dilo and whatever else to do that? Awesome.

3283
02:27:45,280 --> 02:27:46,959
I don't know who that is, and I don't know

3284
02:27:47,000 --> 02:27:48,399
if the Lakers are going to be in a position

3285
02:27:48,440 --> 02:27:51,159
in the standings to even justify doing that at that point.

3286
02:27:51,520 --> 02:27:53,440
So to have not done it now and get it

3287
02:27:53,799 --> 02:27:57,040
maximize the runway of a third of a three star team,

3288
02:27:57,639 --> 02:27:59,559
like just doesn't make sense to me. I don't, I don't.

3289
02:27:59,559 --> 02:28:01,440
It's not an F like the Clippers, but it's still

3290
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:02,159
like it's rough.

3291
02:28:02,799 --> 02:28:05,319
Speaker 1: Why isn't it an F just because you still.

3292
02:28:05,200 --> 02:28:06,760
Speaker 2: Can go do something? The Clippers?

3293
02:28:07,200 --> 02:28:10,639
Speaker 1: I don'tay they turned down They didn't like they shouldn't.

3294
02:28:10,719 --> 02:28:13,479
You know, when you're looking at what actually happened this offseason,

3295
02:28:13,559 --> 02:28:15,639
what is the move that they missed out on? Like

3296
02:28:15,719 --> 02:28:18,840
Larry Marketing didn't go anywhere. They were never really linked.

3297
02:28:18,879 --> 02:28:20,639
I mean, they tried to get Klay Thompson and they

3298
02:28:20,680 --> 02:28:21,799
offered him way too much money.

3299
02:28:21,840 --> 02:28:24,280
Speaker 2: He sounds like to get him, So like do.

3300
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:26,760
Speaker 1: We do we give them a demerit there, I just.

3301
02:28:26,879 --> 02:28:28,399
Speaker 2: Because that would have been stupid to give him that

3302
02:28:28,520 --> 02:28:28,920
much money.

3303
02:28:29,159 --> 02:28:35,280
Speaker 1: Maybe my read on this situation is that Lebron this

3304
02:28:35,440 --> 02:28:37,600
is gonna be Lebron's last season for the Lakers, and

3305
02:28:37,680 --> 02:28:40,520
then I would understand them doing nothing a little bit

3306
02:28:40,559 --> 02:28:42,719
more because he does have that player option and the

3307
02:28:42,799 --> 02:28:45,879
whole look you can play with Bronni doesn't carry as

3308
02:28:45,959 --> 02:28:47,680
much weight when he's about to get to play with

3309
02:28:47,799 --> 02:28:51,959
Bronni for a year. And so maybe I'm like still

3310
02:28:52,079 --> 02:28:53,840
living in the moment too much of a hyperbolic And

3311
02:28:54,120 --> 02:28:56,239
you mentioned maybe they make the all in move before

3312
02:28:56,280 --> 02:28:58,920
the deadline. If it's a situation of their waiting for

3313
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:01,440
the Bulls to just train zach Lavine for contracts, they

3314
02:29:01,520 --> 02:29:04,479
get to keep all Austin reeves and their assets. We'll

3315
02:29:04,520 --> 02:29:06,600
come back and we'll we will tinker with our grade

3316
02:29:06,600 --> 02:29:11,799
from there. But your financial situation was restrictive, maybe a

3317
02:29:11,840 --> 02:29:15,719
little prohibitive. It was not unnavigable, and you still you

3318
02:29:15,879 --> 02:29:18,719
did nothing yeah with it, And so like that's in

3319
02:29:19,520 --> 02:29:20,920
like what do you I'm gonna ask what do you

3320
02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:23,879
like about their don't connect to number seventeen makes sense

3321
02:29:24,280 --> 02:29:26,600
for what they need. But we've talked about how unless

3322
02:29:26,639 --> 02:29:30,200
we feel passionately about draft picks being wrong or right

3323
02:29:30,319 --> 02:29:32,959
or steals, how you grade them as such? There it's

3324
02:29:33,000 --> 02:29:34,799
like this is at minimum of D minus.

3325
02:29:35,120 --> 02:29:37,200
Speaker 2: I mean, no, yeh, you're right, you're right.

3326
02:29:37,799 --> 02:29:41,159
Speaker 1: There's nothing dnus. Is that actually the correct rate of phrases?

3327
02:29:42,440 --> 02:29:46,120
Speaker 2: There's nothing on here that is an unequivocal like, oh, good,

3328
02:29:46,280 --> 02:29:48,719
I guess Lebron getting Lebron to come back, Like I

3329
02:29:48,799 --> 02:29:51,879
guess that's your that's your big positive grade. But like

3330
02:29:52,559 --> 02:29:54,440
I don't know he was gonna do that anyway, because

3331
02:29:54,559 --> 02:29:56,840
that's just it's not like that was a decision really

3332
02:29:56,920 --> 02:29:58,959
for him or for the Lakers. Yeah, I don't know.

3333
02:29:58,959 --> 02:30:01,000
Maybe it isn't F does it? Should it just be

3334
02:30:01,040 --> 02:30:01,319
an F?

3335
02:30:01,479 --> 02:30:01,719
Speaker 1: Maybe?

3336
02:30:01,719 --> 02:30:03,000
Speaker 2: I'm I'm we've had too many.

3337
02:30:03,559 --> 02:30:05,239
Speaker 1: It's so tough because it's okay, well, what is the

3338
02:30:05,319 --> 02:30:07,680
move that they passed on? Like what like they don't

3339
02:30:07,680 --> 02:30:10,360
have the s to go go create your own Dejante

3340
02:30:10,440 --> 02:30:12,399
Murray was probably someone they could have gotten unless the

3341
02:30:12,479 --> 02:30:16,799
Hawks didn't want like the Lakers picks, which when you

3342
02:30:16,840 --> 02:30:19,440
look at the Pelicans picks that they gave up, I mean, well,

3343
02:30:19,479 --> 02:30:21,040
I guess the Hawks got one of the Lakers picks

3344
02:30:21,040 --> 02:30:26,079
anyway next season, right, So admit, but it's an F because, like,

3345
02:30:26,360 --> 02:30:28,879
this is the situation where and I would have said

3346
02:30:28,879 --> 02:30:30,440
the same thing about the By the way, the Warriors

3347
02:30:30,479 --> 02:30:32,360
actually did stuff too, so it's not that they just

3348
02:30:32,399 --> 02:30:34,840
punted on a bigger move, like they found a way

3349
02:30:34,879 --> 02:30:38,040
to do other things and the Lakers did not. So

3350
02:30:38,920 --> 02:30:41,399
for me, it's an F. But I am sympathetic to

3351
02:30:41,479 --> 02:30:43,120
the idea that I'm like, I'm even looking at the

3352
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:46,239
Max Christie extension, like why did he get a player option?

3353
02:30:47,079 --> 02:30:49,559
Speaker 2: I mean, is that just stay Let's get a mid

3354
02:30:49,639 --> 02:30:51,319
tier south even that's like I don't even know if

3355
02:30:51,319 --> 02:30:53,879
that's mid tier enough to really like matter. I guess

3356
02:30:54,200 --> 02:30:55,680
like if you're aggregating, maybe.

3357
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:57,159
Speaker 1: What you could do is thanks to Lebron taking that

3358
02:30:57,239 --> 02:30:59,559
pay cut, there's no way for you to to do

3359
02:30:59,719 --> 02:31:02,760
that whatsoever. So I just and you didn't even get

3360
02:31:02,760 --> 02:31:04,760
the wiggle room to like so that you can trade

3361
02:31:04,840 --> 02:31:08,319
now with like a second Apron team and so like,

3362
02:31:08,399 --> 02:31:10,280
cause you just had like you're so close to the

3363
02:31:10,360 --> 02:31:11,959
second Apron that it's like, oh, we have like a

3364
02:31:12,000 --> 02:31:13,840
fifty thousand dollars cushion and trying to go.

3365
02:31:14,040 --> 02:31:16,360
Speaker 2: Like this, so bad are you? Are you receptive to

3366
02:31:16,479 --> 02:31:19,000
the cause I feel like whenever I make this argument,

3367
02:31:19,159 --> 02:31:21,040
not to you, but just in general, it like doesn't

3368
02:31:21,120 --> 02:31:22,799
land the way I think it should. But and I

3369
02:31:22,879 --> 02:31:26,920
already said it, like it's crazy to So if you're

3370
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:29,879
if you're glass half fulling it and trying to not

3371
02:31:30,000 --> 02:31:31,879
give them an f trying to give them something better,

3372
02:31:32,040 --> 02:31:35,319
you would say, well, they didn't foreclose on their trade options,

3373
02:31:35,360 --> 02:31:38,079
they could still do it. But the argument that I'm like,

3374
02:31:38,879 --> 02:31:42,399
it's not they might be too bad to even justify

3375
02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:45,200
making that move at the time it becomes available. Right, Like,

3376
02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:48,840
if you're not, if you're I don't know, in twelfth

3377
02:31:48,879 --> 02:31:51,719
in the West or whatever at the trade deadline, you're

3378
02:31:51,760 --> 02:31:55,040
not like you'd be insane to trade your draft assets

3379
02:31:55,079 --> 02:31:57,200
and whatever for a for a zach Lavine or whoever

3380
02:31:57,280 --> 02:31:59,600
it is, because you're not gonna be so great you're gonna.

3381
02:31:59,399 --> 02:32:03,239
Speaker 1: Be in the play inning in Well, here's scenario to you, Okay,

3382
02:32:03,799 --> 02:32:09,120
what's more likely that the Lakers finish top four? Okay,

3383
02:32:09,319 --> 02:32:11,440
I'm actually gonna do it. What's more likely the Lakers

3384
02:32:11,520 --> 02:32:14,760
win a playoff series next season? Well, Lebron starts the

3385
02:32:14,840 --> 02:32:16,920
twenty five twenty six season on the Warriors.

3386
02:32:17,520 --> 02:32:25,920
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus Christ, I don't see well that second one.

3387
02:32:25,959 --> 02:32:27,799
There's no way that's happening. He's not gonna be on

3388
02:32:27,879 --> 02:32:28,399
the Warriors.

3389
02:32:28,600 --> 02:32:31,000
Speaker 1: Why him and step do you see the way that

3390
02:32:31,120 --> 02:32:32,760
like look at each other.

3391
02:32:34,440 --> 02:32:35,920
Speaker 2: He's opting out and taking the minimum?

3392
02:32:37,079 --> 02:32:38,239
Speaker 1: No, well, you could trade him?

3393
02:32:38,239 --> 02:32:38,440
Speaker 2: Why not?

3394
02:32:38,479 --> 02:32:40,120
Speaker 1: Why can't you trade him? Well?

3395
02:32:40,280 --> 02:32:42,360
Speaker 2: Like, what are the Warriors get? If that's gonna happen,

3396
02:32:42,399 --> 02:32:44,479
it's gonna be something crazy like that, where it's like

3397
02:32:44,600 --> 02:32:46,760
Lebron is going there to win a title and if

3398
02:32:46,799 --> 02:32:48,479
you have to trade a bunch of shit for him,

3399
02:32:48,639 --> 02:32:51,360
like the team's worse, Like you're not, well no more in.

3400
02:32:51,360 --> 02:32:53,479
Speaker 1: That situation is all a leverage, Like, Okay, it's probably

3401
02:32:53,520 --> 02:32:55,639
costing you picks, but it's picks and salary. You're not

3402
02:32:55,719 --> 02:32:59,760
trading pods or kaminga in that scenario. Why are the Lakers?

3403
02:33:00,120 --> 02:33:01,719
My own question that I think it's more likely that

3404
02:33:02,000 --> 02:33:04,040
Lebron's on the Warriors for next year than it is

3405
02:33:04,079 --> 02:33:05,760
the Lakers win a playoff series this year.

3406
02:33:06,920 --> 02:33:10,479
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I hope you're right. I think it's

3407
02:33:10,680 --> 02:33:12,479
I don't think they're gonna win a playoff series, but

3408
02:33:12,520 --> 02:33:14,799
I would still view that as more likely somehow I

3409
02:33:15,159 --> 02:33:15,840
did a vacuum.

3410
02:33:15,920 --> 02:33:18,799
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, But what what about how the Lakers have

3411
02:33:18,840 --> 02:33:21,559
gone about their business gives you? I think we can

3412
02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:24,239
both agree, Like, if they don't make any changes, they're

3413
02:33:24,239 --> 02:33:25,399
not winning a playoff series.

3414
02:33:25,760 --> 02:33:27,600
Speaker 2: No, I don't see how it happens. Like I just

3415
02:33:27,760 --> 02:33:29,760
there's there's not a path towards that and the West

3416
02:33:29,959 --> 02:33:32,040
blah blah blah, the West is better all that stuff.

3417
02:33:32,079 --> 02:33:34,079
They weren't good enough last year. They're not going to

3418
02:33:34,159 --> 02:33:36,079
get the same high end production from their two best

3419
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:38,920
players this year. Now it's the playoff series feels out

3420
02:33:38,920 --> 02:33:40,879
of the question, But so does the Warriors thing. So

3421
02:33:41,399 --> 02:33:43,479
F two f's for the LA teams.

3422
02:33:43,399 --> 02:33:44,680
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna let you talk me into a

3423
02:33:44,760 --> 02:33:45,200
D minus.

3424
02:33:45,239 --> 02:33:47,000
Speaker 2: If you want to go up to a D minus, No,

3425
02:33:47,159 --> 02:33:50,639
I couldn't. I couldn't cite. The only way you don't

3426
02:33:50,760 --> 02:33:52,760
make it an F is if you really do think

3427
02:33:52,840 --> 02:33:54,399
like I said that, there's a deal out there that

3428
02:33:54,479 --> 02:33:56,719
they're somehow aware of that they're keeping the powder drive

3429
02:33:56,799 --> 02:33:59,319
for and like that's just like there's too many degrees.

3430
02:34:00,479 --> 02:34:01,600
Speaker 1: My old thing is like how do you know? Like

3431
02:34:01,639 --> 02:34:03,799
couldn't they have been a team? Maybe he wouldn't have,

3432
02:34:03,879 --> 02:34:05,600
but he is repped by Clutch, Like, couldn't you have

3433
02:34:05,639 --> 02:34:08,520
figured out a way to get off of one of

3434
02:34:08,559 --> 02:34:11,760
your minimum contracts that you could have been the team

3435
02:34:11,799 --> 02:34:13,079
that got Gary Trenton Junior?

3436
02:34:13,319 --> 02:34:15,319
Speaker 2: I just thought, right, yeah, good had a role for

3437
02:34:15,440 --> 02:34:16,239
him for sure.

3438
02:34:16,600 --> 02:34:18,360
Speaker 1: I'm just so all right, So fs across the board

3439
02:34:18,719 --> 02:34:21,559
we are on too. I guess, as Grant said, they're

3440
02:34:21,559 --> 02:34:24,120
gonna be my Phoenix Suns. So they're my Phoenix Sons.

3441
02:34:24,719 --> 02:34:26,479
Speaker 2: Do you go through the murigo through them? Whose team

3442
02:34:26,520 --> 02:34:28,000
is this? Who just did the Lakers? I think it's

3443
02:34:28,040 --> 02:34:30,200
you because I remember saying Dalon connect last time.

3444
02:34:30,600 --> 02:34:32,879
Speaker 1: All right, nice, such a fun last name, by the way,

3445
02:34:32,920 --> 02:34:35,719
shout out to Liken. So the Suns fired Frank Vogel.

3446
02:34:36,000 --> 02:34:38,959
They hired Mike Budenholzer. He got five years, fifty million.

3447
02:34:39,040 --> 02:34:42,360
It's an estimate. Coaching contracts aren't always just public. They

3448
02:34:42,440 --> 02:34:44,799
traded number twenty two, which was Dayron Holmes a second

3449
02:34:44,879 --> 02:34:47,600
for number twenty six, which was Ryan Dunn. Number fifty

3450
02:34:47,639 --> 02:34:50,520
six that became Kevin mccullor junior, a twenty twenty six

3451
02:34:50,520 --> 02:34:52,520
second and a twenty thirty one second. Both of those

3452
02:34:52,600 --> 02:34:55,399
came from the Nuggets. They then traded number fifty six,

3453
02:34:55,520 --> 02:34:58,840
Kevin mccullar junior and Boston twenty twenty eight second which

3454
02:34:58,920 --> 02:35:01,239
is top forty five to ten, to the Knicks for

3455
02:35:01,360 --> 02:35:04,600
number forty ohsoe Gadaro. He signed a four year seven

3456
02:35:04,600 --> 02:35:07,520
point nine million dollar deal with three guaranteed years. Grant

3457
02:35:07,959 --> 02:35:10,120
Royce O'Neill got a four year forty two million dollar

3458
02:35:10,200 --> 02:35:12,680
deal is fully guaranteed and can go up to forty

3459
02:35:12,719 --> 02:35:16,520
four million with unlikely incentives. Tyas Jones one year at

3460
02:35:16,520 --> 02:35:19,000
the minimum, Bull Bull one year at the minimum, Mason

3461
02:35:19,040 --> 02:35:22,879
Plumlee one year at the minimum. They got Matty Morris

3462
02:35:22,920 --> 02:35:25,040
one year at the minimum, Damian Lee one year at

3463
02:35:25,040 --> 02:35:27,159
the minimum. Josha Kobe did not hit the minimum. Two

3464
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:30,360
year sixteen million only the second season is non guaranteed.

3465
02:35:30,799 --> 02:35:34,319
They traded David Roddy for EJ. Ladell, who was subsequently

3466
02:35:34,399 --> 02:35:37,360
waived and stretched. They also waved and stretched this yere

3467
02:35:37,440 --> 02:35:39,479
Little in one of the more shocking moves of the summer.

3468
02:35:39,879 --> 02:35:42,040
He was going to be on the books now grant

3469
02:35:42,120 --> 02:35:45,440
for three point one million dollars per year through two

3470
02:35:45,479 --> 02:35:48,680
thousand and thirty two thousand and thirty one. They also

3471
02:35:48,799 --> 02:35:53,479
signed Jayalen, Bridges and Collins Giuseppe to two ways. Grayson

3472
02:35:53,479 --> 02:35:55,200
Allen's extension, by the way, will not be part of

3473
02:35:55,239 --> 02:35:57,600
this because that happened the middle of the season. Notable

3474
02:35:57,680 --> 02:36:01,680
exits include Drew Eubanks who is Utah, and Eric Gordon,

3475
02:36:01,840 --> 02:36:05,719
who is with the Philadelphia seventy sixers. And just on

3476
02:36:05,799 --> 02:36:08,000
the note of the new year, Little the Sun saved

3477
02:36:08,200 --> 02:36:10,799
roughly like I think it was nine hundred trillion dollars

3478
02:36:10,840 --> 02:36:12,879
in luxury tax payments off that, but it was really

3479
02:36:12,879 --> 02:36:14,920
I think it was like it's tens of millions that

3480
02:36:14,920 --> 02:36:16,639
they shamed off their bill. I think the exact number

3481
02:36:16,760 --> 02:36:19,600
was like forty or something wild. How do you feel

3482
02:36:19,639 --> 02:36:22,840
about their off season and minimum contract bonanza Part two?

3483
02:36:23,239 --> 02:36:27,239
Speaker 2: This is the genesis of my concerns about over valuing

3484
02:36:27,280 --> 02:36:30,680
minimum contracts. But I would say Tias Jones specifically is

3485
02:36:30,760 --> 02:36:33,440
not your run of the mill minimum guy, like that

3486
02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:37,200
is just like I don't know, mid tier to low

3487
02:36:37,360 --> 02:36:41,200
end starter at a position they desperately needed, so huge

3488
02:36:41,239 --> 02:36:45,159
win to get him at the minimum. I love Budenholzer

3489
02:36:45,799 --> 02:36:48,639
over Vogel. I think that was probably not an easy

3490
02:36:48,680 --> 02:36:50,639
decision to make because they've kind of been jumping through

3491
02:36:50,680 --> 02:36:53,000
coaches fairly frequently. It feels like I just think he's

3492
02:36:53,000 --> 02:36:56,440
an upgrade, and then you know, again, ultimately this is

3493
02:36:56,520 --> 02:36:58,520
just a team that didn't have a lot of options

3494
02:36:58,520 --> 02:37:01,280
because they've just painted themselves into a corner financially and

3495
02:37:01,360 --> 02:37:03,479
in terms of their trade assets and all this other stuff.

3496
02:37:03,520 --> 02:37:06,840
So like this is just still really good for what

3497
02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:11,760
they had available to them Jones in particular, and then

3498
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:15,600
like the O'Neill thing four years forty two, I thought

3499
02:37:15,639 --> 02:37:17,959
maybe they'd go higher just to have like a salary

3500
02:37:18,040 --> 02:37:21,159
to trade. But so that almost seems like kind of

3501
02:37:21,200 --> 02:37:23,760
what O'Neill is worth, or it's not way out of

3502
02:37:23,879 --> 02:37:26,559
step with it, and he's still tradeable at that number

3503
02:37:26,600 --> 02:37:30,000
if they find someone that makes more sense. Yeah, I'm

3504
02:37:30,040 --> 02:37:32,440
mostly positive on it. I'm not going to telegraph my

3505
02:37:32,520 --> 02:37:35,159
grade yet, but like, even if I don't go crazy

3506
02:37:35,239 --> 02:37:37,200
on the minimums and the values there, because even like

3507
02:37:37,280 --> 02:37:39,280
plumbing and bull Bull or like, I don't know, I

3508
02:37:39,440 --> 02:37:41,000
like it. At a minimum, both of those guys could

3509
02:37:41,040 --> 02:37:44,879
actually give you something. Mostly in Monte Morris obviously too,

3510
02:37:45,520 --> 02:37:48,959
mostly positive. I think I'm leaning positive so above a sea,

3511
02:37:49,040 --> 02:37:50,920
but I'm curious how you feel about it.

3512
02:37:51,680 --> 02:37:55,639
Speaker 1: I'm pretty positive on it. I mean Monte Morris differs

3513
02:37:55,680 --> 02:37:57,079
from what they did last year in the sense that

3514
02:37:57,159 --> 02:37:59,559
this was very clearly someone who is not a minimum

3515
02:37:59,639 --> 02:38:01,360
level are taking a discount.

3516
02:38:01,639 --> 02:38:05,760
Speaker 2: Tias Jones mean, Tis Jones, Yeah, sorry, is that guy?

3517
02:38:06,079 --> 02:38:08,559
Speaker 1: Yeah? He which is a bummer because he didn't seem

3518
02:38:08,600 --> 02:38:09,959
like he was that guy a couple of years ago.

3519
02:38:11,280 --> 02:38:13,680
I guess what, I don't know if it confuses me

3520
02:38:13,799 --> 02:38:17,639
but concerns me, is it does exacerbate the non wing

3521
02:38:17,840 --> 02:38:19,959
situation of it all where it's okay, I know they

3522
02:38:20,040 --> 02:38:24,120
have a Kogie and Royce O'Neill at Damian Lee, Like

3523
02:38:24,280 --> 02:38:27,399
what is this team's like closing units look like that

3524
02:38:27,600 --> 02:38:30,079
like starting is whatever. But so if we assume that

3525
02:38:30,200 --> 02:38:33,319
be Ol Booker and Durant are locks for a closing

3526
02:38:33,399 --> 02:38:36,520
line up or your core lineup, Tias Jones, I'm assuming, okay,

3527
02:38:36,559 --> 02:38:39,120
we know he's starting. I'm assuming he doesn't come to

3528
02:38:39,200 --> 02:38:43,479
Phoenix if there isn't at least a distinct possibility that

3529
02:38:43,600 --> 02:38:45,440
he will have the opportunity to play in those higher

3530
02:38:45,479 --> 02:38:49,879
stake situations. And now it's all right, So Tias Jones,

3531
02:38:49,920 --> 02:38:53,600
Devin Booker, Bradley Beal, Kevin Rant who was fantastic defensively

3532
02:38:53,680 --> 02:38:56,840
for like half the year last season, you don't want

3533
02:38:56,879 --> 02:38:59,040
him shouldering that defensive load again, Like, who is it

3534
02:38:59,239 --> 02:39:02,319
Nurkic who was defensively than we expected? Is it Bobull

3535
02:39:02,399 --> 02:39:04,920
who had like in spot minutes, was pretty good around

3536
02:39:05,000 --> 02:39:07,639
the basket for them later in last year? Is it

3537
02:39:07,879 --> 02:39:10,639
Royce O'Neill, And like, you're just like Kevin Durant, You're big.

3538
02:39:10,959 --> 02:39:13,959
I like, and I don't know what else. I guess

3539
02:39:14,000 --> 02:39:15,959
the problem there is what were they supposed to do

3540
02:39:16,079 --> 02:39:19,520
to clarify this at all with the resources that they had,

3541
02:39:19,600 --> 02:39:22,559
So like, from a pure value perspective, it's they did

3542
02:39:22,600 --> 02:39:25,879
a really good job. I just don't know. Like the

3543
02:39:26,000 --> 02:39:29,239
Josha Cogi deal specifically is built to trade. I think

3544
02:39:29,280 --> 02:39:32,200
with Royce O'Neill that was almost built to trade down

3545
02:39:32,239 --> 02:39:35,120
the line because it's I don't know that teams that

3546
02:39:35,239 --> 02:39:37,559
are selling are gonna want Royce O'Neil for the next

3547
02:39:37,680 --> 02:39:40,600
you know, four years, three years after this season on

3548
02:39:40,760 --> 02:39:42,559
their books. And so I look at the Josha Coge

3549
02:39:42,639 --> 02:39:44,360
number as like, okay, that's eight. I think they gave

3550
02:39:44,440 --> 02:39:46,760
him an eight point twenty five million dollars starting salary.

3551
02:39:47,200 --> 02:39:49,520
That's the money they could take back. And that's the

3552
02:39:49,680 --> 02:39:51,200
kind of player I'm looking at as right, they're gonna

3553
02:39:51,239 --> 02:39:55,600
try and use him to upgrade their roster. I like

3554
02:39:55,719 --> 02:39:59,040
again still and it's still just it fascinates me, puzzles

3555
02:39:59,120 --> 02:40:01,920
me that this team was twelfth in defense last year

3556
02:40:01,959 --> 02:40:04,000
and you look at some of the stuff they did well. Again,

3557
02:40:04,079 --> 02:40:07,200
Kevin rant was great, Nurkicch was solid around the basket.

3558
02:40:07,959 --> 02:40:10,639
They did things like after they missed shots like they

3559
02:40:10,680 --> 02:40:13,559
were back, like they were back and set on defense.

3560
02:40:13,639 --> 02:40:16,479
That certainly helped them. They probably got a little lucky

3561
02:40:16,520 --> 02:40:18,879
on opponent shooting. I think opponents only shot thirty six

3562
02:40:18,920 --> 02:40:22,360
percent on corner threes against them. But I look at

3563
02:40:22,399 --> 02:40:24,280
this team and I know, maybe they have a better

3564
02:40:24,399 --> 02:40:27,959
coach or more inventive one, and Mike Budenholzer, I don't

3565
02:40:28,159 --> 02:40:31,479
know that I see a pathway to them being twelfth

3566
02:40:31,600 --> 02:40:37,280
in defense again, and like, but again, again and again

3567
02:40:37,319 --> 02:40:40,680
and on again times again again. What else were they

3568
02:40:40,760 --> 02:40:43,159
supposed to do this Austins that would have made me

3569
02:40:43,200 --> 02:40:46,040
feel better? So relative to their resources available, I don't

3570
02:40:46,079 --> 02:40:48,680
think it's just oh, we have to view it as positive.

3571
02:40:49,280 --> 02:40:52,280
It's you know, if we're gonna talk about teams not

3572
02:40:52,440 --> 02:40:55,120
willing to spend into the second apron, there's a I

3573
02:40:55,200 --> 02:40:57,319
know they wave this here little and they're saving tens

3574
02:40:57,360 --> 02:41:00,440
of million dollars in luxury tacks off that, but there's

3575
02:41:00,520 --> 02:41:04,479
a real financial outlay to paying both Josha Koge and

3576
02:41:04,559 --> 02:41:08,079
Royce O'Neil more money than perhaps their worth to other

3577
02:41:08,159 --> 02:41:09,479
teams on an annual basis.

3578
02:41:10,079 --> 02:41:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, Look, we've been trying to be consistent

3579
02:41:14,200 --> 02:41:18,760
with rewarding a team for to whatever extent it can

3580
02:41:19,040 --> 02:41:21,520
pursuing like the goal and for the Suns, the goal

3581
02:41:21,680 --> 02:41:25,799
is like winning today like now, and given what they

3582
02:41:25,920 --> 02:41:28,920
had at hand, like this is about as well as

3583
02:41:28,959 --> 02:41:32,200
they could have done, right, Like what what was there?

3584
02:41:32,319 --> 02:41:32,360
Speaker 1: What?

3585
02:41:32,559 --> 02:41:35,239
Speaker 2: Like they couldn't have gone and used roster exceptions to

3586
02:41:35,280 --> 02:41:37,479
sign guys, they couldn't make you know, unbalanced trades. They

3587
02:41:37,520 --> 02:41:41,479
couldn't go do all this, So like over maybe overspending

3588
02:41:41,639 --> 02:41:43,760
on O'Neill and o'koge is the best they could do,

3589
02:41:43,840 --> 02:41:47,760
and then offering what they could, like offering a like

3590
02:41:47,840 --> 02:41:51,440
a playing time bonus to someone like Tyas Jones to

3591
02:41:51,520 --> 02:41:53,200
like break the tie between them and a bunch of

3592
02:41:53,239 --> 02:41:56,520
other minimum offers, Like, I mean, that's that's all you

3593
02:41:56,600 --> 02:41:59,479
could do. So, I mean, I still can't. I can't

3594
02:41:59,479 --> 02:42:02,639
go into the range just because that feels too high.

3595
02:42:02,760 --> 02:42:05,840
But I don't know, this is like a solid bee,

3596
02:42:06,159 --> 02:42:08,360
it feels like I mean, I especially if you really

3597
02:42:08,440 --> 02:42:12,079
think Budenholzer is better than Vogel, which like I kinda do, So,

3598
02:42:12,520 --> 02:42:13,719
I mean, I don't know, I just don't know what

3599
02:42:14,079 --> 02:42:16,600
what else you really realistically would have wanted the Suns

3600
02:42:16,680 --> 02:42:20,200
to do, unless unless you really thought, like blow the

3601
02:42:20,319 --> 02:42:22,559
whole thing up start over, which is just like I

3602
02:42:22,639 --> 02:42:24,920
couldn't do that. It's too unwieldy. It couldn't have been done.

3603
02:42:25,239 --> 02:42:27,079
Speaker 1: Do you think they're prepared to bring Bradley Beal off

3604
02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:28,559
the bench or sit him in crunch time?

3605
02:42:29,639 --> 02:42:31,920
Speaker 2: Well, actually, an answer to your question, I think, ultimately

3606
02:42:33,239 --> 02:42:36,719
I don't think Tias Jones maybe should close that much,

3607
02:42:36,760 --> 02:42:38,959
because I think you probably want O'Neil out there in

3608
02:42:39,040 --> 02:42:42,879
the center would be my guess. So, but he's on

3609
02:42:42,959 --> 02:42:45,159
the minimum. So if he's upset, like, oh, well, like

3610
02:42:45,399 --> 02:42:48,879
you're not gonna be back there. We tried, We have

3611
02:42:48,959 --> 02:42:51,000
Monte Morris. If he's healthy, he's pretty close to what

3612
02:42:51,079 --> 02:42:51,360
you are.

3613
02:42:51,520 --> 02:42:55,120
Speaker 1: So so here's what I'm struggling with as to why,

3614
02:42:55,680 --> 02:42:57,959
if we're doing this relative to resources, why is it

3615
02:42:58,120 --> 02:42:59,959
only a bee? Yeah?

3616
02:43:00,280 --> 02:43:02,559
Speaker 2: Just I don't have a great answer other than like,

3617
02:43:03,559 --> 02:43:05,360
it just feels like you can't give them an A

3618
02:43:05,559 --> 02:43:08,360
because there's not like a crazy move here. But you're right,

3619
02:43:08,479 --> 02:43:10,159
like it would be kind of inconsistent of us to

3620
02:43:10,200 --> 02:43:11,159
not give them some kind of A.

3621
02:43:12,200 --> 02:43:14,319
Speaker 1: I'd probably go like an A or an A minus.

3622
02:43:14,399 --> 02:43:16,520
Maybe we settle on a B plus because I think

3623
02:43:17,040 --> 02:43:19,079
what's tough here is like you didn't need I mean,

3624
02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:21,559
you wanted a roster spot, but like you didn't need

3625
02:43:21,719 --> 02:43:24,840
to wave and stretch this year, little like you could

3626
02:43:24,840 --> 02:43:28,280
have been playing though you know like it, but now

3627
02:43:28,319 --> 02:43:30,280
there's just that three point one million dollar hit on

3628
02:43:30,360 --> 02:43:30,719
your books.

3629
02:43:30,879 --> 02:43:31,040
Speaker 2: Like that.

3630
02:43:31,280 --> 02:43:32,600
Speaker 1: To me, I viewed that as more of a money

3631
02:43:32,639 --> 02:43:34,079
saving move than like, oh, we need to do is

3632
02:43:34,159 --> 02:43:38,040
to create the roster spot. Yeah, yeah, no, you could

3633
02:43:38,079 --> 02:43:40,680
have just signed like one fewer minimum contract then or

3634
02:43:40,799 --> 02:43:43,200
waived a minimum contract that you already signed.

3635
02:43:43,440 --> 02:43:47,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair. I mean I'd be

3636
02:43:47,399 --> 02:43:49,239
willing to go up to a B plus. I think

3637
02:43:49,319 --> 02:43:51,959
that's totally I mean, maybe that's even under selling it.

3638
02:43:52,040 --> 02:43:54,680
I just I don't know why I bump, maybe because like,

3639
02:43:54,760 --> 02:43:58,399
ultimately I think I don't like the position they're in overall.

3640
02:43:58,559 --> 02:44:02,680
But that's like that's the criticism of the last couple offseason,

3641
02:44:04,159 --> 02:44:04,360
Like I.

3642
02:44:04,360 --> 02:44:06,520
Speaker 1: Feel pretty good about them leading into this season, Like

3643
02:44:06,600 --> 02:44:08,879
I'm just assuming there's gonna be no Kevin Durant drop off,

3644
02:44:08,920 --> 02:44:12,639
and that's just like I think they feel a little

3645
02:44:12,680 --> 02:44:15,239
bit more evened out right now. But this will be

3646
02:44:15,319 --> 02:44:18,840
fascinating to regrade, because my guess is, I mean, would

3647
02:44:18,879 --> 02:44:22,000
you be fairly surprised if Joshua Kohe's spot just turns

3648
02:44:22,040 --> 02:44:23,680
into like if he's just on this team past the

3649
02:44:23,680 --> 02:44:25,760
trade that line, I feel like I'd be fairly surprised.

3650
02:44:26,200 --> 02:44:28,799
It seems like even if he hits his corner threes,

3651
02:44:29,319 --> 02:44:31,719
like we've seen this movie before, right, it's like they like,

3652
02:44:32,079 --> 02:44:34,159
like he's gonna be ready for the playoffs. No, Like

3653
02:44:34,200 --> 02:44:35,639
you don't get to play that card anymore.

3654
02:44:35,799 --> 02:44:38,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I think I think it's But then

3655
02:44:38,719 --> 02:44:41,000
that's the point of that salary is is it's moved.

3656
02:44:41,040 --> 02:44:43,879
You know, it's something you can trade to someone for something,

3657
02:44:43,959 --> 02:44:46,360
and it's not guaranteed in the second year, so you

3658
02:44:46,440 --> 02:44:49,399
know whatever. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you're making me

3659
02:44:49,440 --> 02:44:51,120
feel like I'm being unfair and not giving them.

3660
02:44:51,280 --> 02:44:53,559
Speaker 1: No, I don't think you're being They did put themselves

3661
02:44:53,600 --> 02:44:55,559
in a situation where they could I so you could

3662
02:44:55,559 --> 02:44:58,440
also can just like you couldn't just give like you

3663
02:44:58,520 --> 02:45:01,239
could do some spicier things. And theory, if Joshakogy was

3664
02:45:01,280 --> 02:45:04,200
making more Royce O'Neill was making more, maybe again the

3665
02:45:04,239 --> 02:45:06,200
four year commitment with O'Neil that takes him through his

3666
02:45:06,239 --> 02:45:08,479
age thirty four season. I don't know how appealing that

3667
02:45:08,520 --> 02:45:11,200
will be the teams that aren't looking like it's just guarantees.

3668
02:45:11,200 --> 02:45:12,760
I don't know howpepealing it'll be, the teams that aren't

3669
02:45:12,799 --> 02:45:15,440
looking to win. But like, you know, you could have

3670
02:45:15,520 --> 02:45:18,200
just paid josh Akogey more and eaten the cost there

3671
02:45:18,319 --> 02:45:20,479
like that. I think that's a fair criticism of oh

3672
02:45:20,600 --> 02:45:22,719
cool eight You could take back an eight point twenty

3673
02:45:22,760 --> 02:45:28,200
five million dollar player ye, Joe. So are we going?

3674
02:45:28,280 --> 02:45:28,840
Where are we going?

3675
02:45:28,920 --> 02:45:29,319
Speaker 2: B plus?

3676
02:45:30,239 --> 02:45:30,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

3677
02:45:30,479 --> 02:45:31,360
Speaker 2: Well, let's go B plus.

3678
02:45:31,520 --> 02:45:33,040
Speaker 1: This might have been the quickest team. They had a

3679
02:45:33,079 --> 02:45:34,959
lot of stuff done, but I think they they upgraded

3680
02:45:34,959 --> 02:45:38,600
the coaching spot. That's and by the way, I will say,

3681
02:45:41,280 --> 02:45:43,120
do I need to push for an A minus? They

3682
02:45:43,239 --> 02:45:47,840
put a lot of traction out of number twenty two, right,

3683
02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:54,920
twenty six two distance second too? Then I'm gonna do this,

3684
02:45:55,000 --> 02:45:56,879
harn't I need to go with an A on my end?

3685
02:45:57,319 --> 02:46:00,600
Speaker 2: All right, I'll allow an A minus consent this grade.

3686
02:46:01,239 --> 02:46:03,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a lot of runway had at

3687
02:46:03,440 --> 02:46:04,479
number twenty two, is it not?

3688
02:46:04,680 --> 02:46:07,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? It is. They did really flip that into more

3689
02:46:07,159 --> 02:46:09,719
than they should have gotten for it, and they probably

3690
02:46:09,959 --> 02:46:11,600
just Doron Holmes was going to get hurt too, so

3691
02:46:11,719 --> 02:46:12,959
that you know, if they knew that.

3692
02:46:13,079 --> 02:46:16,200
Speaker 1: Then I will say, I'm a little uncomfortable with how

3693
02:46:16,200 --> 02:46:18,399
many people think that. And I don't know. I'm sure

3694
02:46:18,520 --> 02:46:21,319
we fall into this trap too sometimes, But that think

3695
02:46:21,399 --> 02:46:23,840
that either Ryan Done Raga Daro is going to answer

3696
02:46:23,879 --> 02:46:25,799
some immediate questions for them next season.

3697
02:46:25,840 --> 02:46:26,600
Speaker 2: I just knocked it.

3698
02:46:26,920 --> 02:46:31,200
Speaker 1: I don't see it offensively from Done specifically, So all right,

3699
02:46:31,280 --> 02:46:33,719
we are on too. Wow, it's our final team grant

3700
02:46:34,200 --> 02:46:36,600
pouring out for the twenty twenty four offseason regrades as

3701
02:46:36,639 --> 02:46:38,959
we end with your Sacramento Kings.

3702
02:46:39,120 --> 02:46:42,600
Speaker 2: All right, I'll take them, Mike Brown after some remember

3703
02:46:42,639 --> 02:46:44,760
that little hemming and hang like, I don't know is

3704
02:46:45,239 --> 02:46:47,120
ownership going to do it? Three years, thirty million dollar

3705
02:46:47,200 --> 02:46:50,680
extension good for him. Drafted Devin Carter at number thirteen.

3706
02:46:51,639 --> 02:46:54,840
Left shoulder surgery means that pick is not going to

3707
02:46:54,879 --> 02:46:58,559
help them for a decent amount of time. Traded Sasha Vazankov,

3708
02:46:58,680 --> 02:47:01,079
Davion Mitchell number forty five, which was Jamal Shett and

3709
02:47:01,159 --> 02:47:05,040
Portland's twenty five second to the Toronto Raptors. Four Jalen McDaniels.

3710
02:47:05,159 --> 02:47:07,239
Jalen with an L, not Jayden with a D. Big

3711
02:47:07,399 --> 02:47:10,920
big difference there. Got Malik Bunk Malik Monk back for

3712
02:47:11,040 --> 02:47:13,159
four years seventy eight million. Thus the most they could

3713
02:47:13,159 --> 02:47:15,440
give him twenty seven to twenty eight is a player

3714
02:47:15,520 --> 02:47:17,600
option that'll be his age twenty nine season. Got DeMar

3715
02:47:17,680 --> 02:47:21,760
Derozen three years seventy three point nine million, ten million

3716
02:47:21,799 --> 02:47:24,280
of that is guaranteed for the third year of the deal,

3717
02:47:24,959 --> 02:47:27,920
part of a sign in trade that sent out Harrison Barnes,

3718
02:47:27,959 --> 02:47:31,479
Chris Duarte, an unprotected twenty thirty one pickswap A twenty

3719
02:47:31,520 --> 02:47:34,920
five second, a twenty eight second and cash Alex Lynn,

3720
02:47:35,040 --> 02:47:39,280
Jordan McLaughlin, Orlando Robinson in on one year minimums, signed

3721
02:47:39,319 --> 02:47:42,399
Isaac Jones and Isaiah Crawford to two ways. So Dan,

3722
02:47:43,280 --> 02:47:46,799
this to me is not just about DeMar Derozen and

3723
02:47:46,959 --> 02:47:49,399
how that all fits, because the Monk signing was a

3724
02:47:49,440 --> 02:47:52,079
big deal. Locking down Mike Brown was a big deal.

3725
02:47:53,399 --> 02:47:57,600
Even the Jalen McDaniels trade, Like in theory, that kind

3726
02:47:57,639 --> 02:48:00,319
of addresses a player type need that they had.

3727
02:48:01,399 --> 02:48:03,159
Speaker 1: So what do we what?

3728
02:48:03,399 --> 02:48:04,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just hate to throw it to

3729
02:48:04,639 --> 02:48:06,559
you broadly with a what are you thinking here? But

3730
02:48:07,639 --> 02:48:09,280
or do you want to start with DeRozan? Because for

3731
02:48:09,360 --> 02:48:11,360
me this does actually I was going to say, like

3732
02:48:11,600 --> 02:48:15,280
circle back to the Derozean thing. Uh does the the

3733
02:48:15,440 --> 02:48:19,520
offensive boost theoretically offset the defense? Like? Where where do

3734
02:48:19,600 --> 02:48:21,920
you want to start? I'm happy to discuss whatever aspect

3735
02:48:21,959 --> 02:48:22,360
you'd like to.

3736
02:48:22,719 --> 02:48:25,479
Speaker 1: How do you grade the Mike Brown extension when they

3737
02:48:25,760 --> 02:48:30,000
so clearly bungled negotiations? Where with that leak and then

3738
02:48:30,079 --> 02:48:32,200
just to sign him like the next day or whatever

3739
02:48:32,280 --> 02:48:32,600
it was.

3740
02:48:33,479 --> 02:48:35,600
Speaker 2: There's just a little bit of Kings in there, still

3741
02:48:35,840 --> 02:48:38,200
just a little bit of Kangs. They haven't gotten rid

3742
02:48:38,200 --> 02:48:39,840
of all of it yet, is what i'd say about that.

3743
02:48:40,239 --> 02:48:42,920
Speaker 1: So getting to keep Malik Monk, I think it's good

3744
02:48:42,959 --> 02:48:44,600
that they were willing to pay him, but I think

3745
02:48:44,600 --> 02:48:46,600
it was clear that the market wasn't going to So

3746
02:48:46,680 --> 02:48:49,840
I just view that as I'd like, maybe it's slightly

3747
02:48:49,879 --> 02:48:51,920
above average in this, but like he wasn't getting that

3748
02:48:52,040 --> 02:48:53,879
money anywhere else because the team like it.

3749
02:48:53,959 --> 02:48:56,799
Speaker 2: He's a good player though, and like passing off of

3750
02:48:56,879 --> 02:48:59,879
driags is insane. It's a fine. It's a totally fine deal.

3751
02:49:01,239 --> 02:49:05,719
I guess maybe in conjunction with getting Derozen you might say, like, well,

3752
02:49:05,760 --> 02:49:08,840
now we're really overkill on like offense first guys, but

3753
02:49:09,559 --> 02:49:12,520
just vacuum that deals fine. Spoiler alert.

3754
02:49:12,600 --> 02:49:14,959
Speaker 1: I asked Greg Wissinger this for the Kings look Ahead

3755
02:49:14,959 --> 02:49:17,920
that hasn't been published yet, if Malik Monk technically becomes

3756
02:49:17,959 --> 02:49:20,920
a trade asset now because you have Derosen and he

3757
02:49:21,040 --> 02:49:23,239
said no, And they do provide very different skill sets,

3758
02:49:23,280 --> 02:49:26,600
but I mean, you have DeRozan and Malie Monk and

3759
02:49:26,639 --> 02:49:28,360
Daron Fox on this roster and you're trying to you

3760
02:49:28,479 --> 02:49:30,600
have to play Keon Ellis now, and so that's where

3761
02:49:30,639 --> 02:49:33,120
it comes back to the DeRozan trade. It's an offensive

3762
02:49:33,239 --> 02:49:36,200
upgrade and it's just that's just clear. But there are

3763
02:49:36,399 --> 02:49:39,280
concerns like they needed an outside in shot creator, they

3764
02:49:39,319 --> 02:49:42,280
needed someone to draw fouls, especially if they're not collectively

3765
02:49:42,280 --> 02:49:45,000
as a team getting to the basket as much. There

3766
02:49:45,079 --> 02:49:47,600
will be spacing concerns. I'm gonna be very interesting to

3767
02:49:47,639 --> 02:49:50,159
see how they're staggered lineups sort of unfold from this.

3768
02:49:50,920 --> 02:49:53,520
I am concerned about the defense now. They were sixth

3769
02:49:53,920 --> 02:49:56,520
from when Kean Ellis made his first start, which I

3770
02:49:56,559 --> 02:50:00,319
think was like February something, whatever it was, and Keegan

3771
02:50:00,399 --> 02:50:04,040
Murray defended everybody like he he defended some centers, but

3772
02:50:04,079 --> 02:50:09,200
he defended everybody. The problem with going from Harrison Barnes

3773
02:50:09,239 --> 02:50:12,920
to Demart Rosen is Harrison Barnes I think was overstretched

3774
02:50:12,959 --> 02:50:15,600
in one on one situations. You can't even hope to

3775
02:50:15,639 --> 02:50:18,200
put tomart Rosen in those situations. The bigger deal is

3776
02:50:18,680 --> 02:50:20,000
when you go look at like kind of the rim

3777
02:50:20,120 --> 02:50:23,719
data from Sacramento's non bigs they're tasked with contesting or

3778
02:50:23,760 --> 02:50:27,040
cleaning up a lot at the basket, Harrison Barnes like,

3779
02:50:27,079 --> 02:50:29,360
you can't use Demarta rose If you can, I've yet

3780
02:50:29,399 --> 02:50:31,120
to see it because I don't think any teams tried it,

3781
02:50:31,719 --> 02:50:33,280
So there are going to be issues there. Now you're

3782
02:50:33,319 --> 02:50:37,360
putting a ton on the shoulders of dearon Fox Keegan

3783
02:50:37,440 --> 02:50:39,879
Murray and Kean Ellis, and you have kind of shoehorned

3784
02:50:39,920 --> 02:50:43,760
yourself into like Kean Ellison and Keegan Murray. Whenever Demarta

3785
02:50:43,840 --> 02:50:45,799
Rosen and Demontese Bonus are on the floor, like those

3786
02:50:45,799 --> 02:50:47,639
two just have to be in the game, I would argue,

3787
02:50:48,040 --> 02:50:49,440
and then it's well, then how do you figure out

3788
02:50:49,479 --> 02:50:52,280
the rest of your staggering patterns? So I do think

3789
02:50:52,920 --> 02:50:55,479
while DeRozan is, I think in overall, when you look

3790
02:50:55,520 --> 02:50:58,360
at the trade offs that are being made, I think

3791
02:50:58,399 --> 02:51:01,079
it's an overall net positive this move, especially because the

3792
02:51:01,159 --> 02:51:05,680
opportunity cost wasn't huge, which is like a big like okay,

3793
02:51:05,760 --> 02:51:08,760
some distance seconds and that first round swap. Sure, But

3794
02:51:09,000 --> 02:51:12,200
I overall view it positively because it's two guarantee years

3795
02:51:12,200 --> 02:51:15,440
and if it's very disastrous, there's only the partial guarantee

3796
02:51:15,479 --> 02:51:16,879
on that final season.

3797
02:51:18,040 --> 02:51:19,600
Speaker 2: But I do think the.

3798
02:51:19,639 --> 02:51:21,159
Speaker 1: People who are just like, well, look at how good

3799
02:51:21,159 --> 02:51:23,079
they were defensively to close the year. Look at where

3800
02:51:23,079 --> 02:51:26,159
they finished around league average. I think even with the

3801
02:51:26,200 --> 02:51:29,680
improvement of Keon Murray, uh, Kegan Murray and having Keon Ellis,

3802
02:51:30,479 --> 02:51:32,799
that it might be harder to replicate that success. And

3803
02:51:32,840 --> 02:51:34,639
you now have to get into the nuts and bolts

3804
02:51:34,680 --> 02:51:37,319
of is the offense gonna be better enough closer to

3805
02:51:37,399 --> 02:51:39,760
twenty two to twenty three when they had basically the

3806
02:51:39,799 --> 02:51:42,120
best half court attack in the league and then that

3807
02:51:42,319 --> 02:51:45,479
dropped the basically league average last year? Have you done

3808
02:51:45,600 --> 02:51:48,719
enough to improve that to offset any defensive aggression that

3809
02:51:48,799 --> 02:51:51,719
you're gonna withstand. I don't know the answer to that question.

3810
02:51:51,879 --> 02:51:53,440
But even now when I sit here and say, like

3811
02:51:54,079 --> 02:51:55,440
the move is, like, all right, they need to kind

3812
02:51:55,479 --> 02:51:58,200
of trade for maybe another defensive type of wing like

3813
02:51:58,399 --> 02:52:00,799
that is it's not gonna be someone who's like your

3814
02:52:00,879 --> 02:52:03,959
core lineup is just set. It's Keigan Murray, Demonta Sebonis,

3815
02:52:04,239 --> 02:52:07,239
Daron Fox, Demart Rosen, and then it's okay, if you

3816
02:52:07,239 --> 02:52:09,040
want to get someone who's better than Kean Ellis, that

3817
02:52:09,159 --> 02:52:09,719
might be where your.

3818
02:52:09,639 --> 02:52:13,159
Speaker 2: Wiggled room is. Yeah, No, I think I think where

3819
02:52:13,200 --> 02:52:16,760
I land is ultimately, the overall talent on the team

3820
02:52:16,840 --> 02:52:19,799
is greater. The defense is going to be a real

3821
02:52:19,879 --> 02:52:22,239
issue because DeRozan is a bad defender and he's taking

3822
02:52:22,319 --> 02:52:25,520
over for one who wasn't as bad in Harrison Barnes.

3823
02:52:25,879 --> 02:52:27,479
I don't think Barnes at this stage of his career

3824
02:52:27,600 --> 02:52:30,280
is like a good defender, but DeRozan is like historically

3825
02:52:30,399 --> 02:52:32,120
just one of the worst at the position.

3826
02:52:32,520 --> 02:52:34,280
Speaker 1: So I think, please, I'm sorry to interject, do not

3827
02:52:34,600 --> 02:52:38,479
cite not you, nobody cite Tomart de Rozan's individual defensive raiding.

3828
02:52:38,479 --> 02:52:40,719
I beg you, No, I know's he got to play

3829
02:52:40,760 --> 02:52:42,959
with Alice Caruso, he got to play with Io de

3830
02:52:43,079 --> 02:52:47,040
souon mu I just I and Patrick Williams. There there's

3831
02:52:47,040 --> 02:52:49,959
an individual defensive rating is just It's not it shouldn't

3832
02:52:49,959 --> 02:52:51,719
even be a thing. I don't think I figuree.

3833
02:52:52,360 --> 02:52:54,559
Speaker 2: So so there's that side of it. The defense should

3834
02:52:54,600 --> 02:52:58,079
be worse unless you play guys that take some of

3835
02:52:58,120 --> 02:53:00,360
the bite out of your offense. Like that's if you

3836
02:53:00,479 --> 02:53:03,040
have Ellis and Murray out there. Like Murray's a little

3837
02:53:03,040 --> 02:53:05,239
different because Murray has real offensive value, but Ellis is

3838
02:53:05,239 --> 02:53:08,959
out there to guard mainly. So you there's give and

3839
02:53:09,079 --> 02:53:12,040
take there. That's weird. And then like again, the talent

3840
02:53:12,159 --> 02:53:14,319
on the team is greater, and the price for DeRozan

3841
02:53:14,440 --> 02:53:16,440
is like you just do that. You just take him

3842
02:53:16,559 --> 02:53:18,399
for what it costs to get him. I'm not saying

3843
02:53:18,559 --> 02:53:21,840
the undo this move, the problems it creates. I still

3844
02:53:21,879 --> 02:53:25,159
am like, I think there are a real potential Like, so,

3845
02:53:25,319 --> 02:53:31,159
what is this guy gonna do now on offense between DeRozan, Sibonis, Fox,

3846
02:53:31,559 --> 02:53:33,840
and even Monk if he's out there with those three

3847
02:53:33,879 --> 02:53:37,360
other guys, just because Sabonis does not have off ball

3848
02:53:37,440 --> 02:53:41,159
value really and like DeRozan is someone that I guess

3849
02:53:41,239 --> 02:53:44,440
I'm if you're really bullish on this, you're just banking

3850
02:53:44,559 --> 02:53:48,280
on the talent between Fox, Sabonus and DeRozan and then

3851
02:53:48,360 --> 02:53:50,959
Monk just figuring it out, like figuring out how to

3852
02:53:51,040 --> 02:53:53,559
minimize the lack of spacing, the low volume three point

3853
02:53:53,600 --> 02:53:57,040
shooting from a couple of those guys totally totally possible,

3854
02:53:57,399 --> 02:53:59,399
not a given to me. Like I do think they're

3855
02:53:59,479 --> 02:54:01,280
scenario where we look at this team it's like, oh

3856
02:54:01,319 --> 02:54:04,000
my god, the offense like this doesn't make sense. This

3857
02:54:04,120 --> 02:54:06,879
doesn't work, especially if you start thinking about DeRozan, the

3858
02:54:07,000 --> 02:54:09,360
age that he's at like this guy has felt like

3859
02:54:09,440 --> 02:54:12,399
he's been on borrowed time as an all offensive player

3860
02:54:12,440 --> 02:54:14,959
for like five years now. Maybe his skill set is

3861
02:54:14,959 --> 02:54:17,360
such that it's like it's clearly such that it's more

3862
02:54:17,399 --> 02:54:19,600
age proof than most. But we're getting into like mid

3863
02:54:19,680 --> 02:54:21,440
to late thirties now where it's like, at some point

3864
02:54:21,719 --> 02:54:24,040
you just aren't able to do this anymore. Yeah, that's

3865
02:54:24,120 --> 02:54:27,040
on the table. Still do the d Still do it

3866
02:54:27,120 --> 02:54:29,680
ten times out of ten, just saying to me, this

3867
02:54:29,920 --> 02:54:33,879
is overall because the talent's greater, because you got Brown back,

3868
02:54:34,000 --> 02:54:36,600
because you got Monk at a market rate deal. This

3869
02:54:36,760 --> 02:54:39,559
is an above average offseason to me, But I'm not

3870
02:54:39,719 --> 02:54:43,360
prepared to say it's like, oh A range even B

3871
02:54:43,600 --> 02:54:45,760
range unless you have more to say. I think I'm

3872
02:54:45,840 --> 02:54:48,520
telegraphing where I'm going, but like peel C plus.

3873
02:54:48,440 --> 02:54:51,879
Speaker 1: To me, I was thinking B minus just because I think,

3874
02:54:52,000 --> 02:54:55,319
like getting off of the whatever the Vizankov issue turned

3875
02:54:55,319 --> 02:54:58,680
into that that's i'mdoing a mistake from last year. And

3876
02:54:58,879 --> 02:55:00,840
unless you're like super I mean in Portland twenty twenty

3877
02:55:00,879 --> 02:55:04,719
five seconds, not nothing sure, And Jamal Shd a lot

3878
02:55:04,719 --> 02:55:08,760
of people are higher on his defense. I just the

3879
02:55:08,799 --> 02:55:10,600
Mike brad extension was good. I think to keep him,

3880
02:55:10,639 --> 02:55:12,879
you brought Malik Monk back, and I think I even

3881
02:55:12,959 --> 02:55:15,680
like kind of something like the Jordan McLoughlin Orlando Robinson

3882
02:55:16,000 --> 02:55:18,399
things on the margins where it's McLoughlin like that could

3883
02:55:18,399 --> 02:55:20,799
come in, especially with Devin Carter injured, if you need

3884
02:55:20,840 --> 02:55:23,159
someone who can maybe guard in the back court. Okay,

3885
02:55:23,239 --> 02:55:25,719
there he is. What I also think this does, and

3886
02:55:25,799 --> 02:55:27,600
maybe this is you can ask me or you can

3887
02:55:27,639 --> 02:55:30,600
tell me if this is not shouldn't factor in the grades.

3888
02:55:31,079 --> 02:55:33,680
Because of the way they operated this offseason, it makes

3889
02:55:33,719 --> 02:55:36,079
me think that they're gonna be quicker on their feet

3890
02:55:36,399 --> 02:55:40,639
to make moves during the season, and I value having

3891
02:55:40,760 --> 02:55:43,239
that because we haven't seen it since the Sabonis trade,

3892
02:55:43,559 --> 02:55:46,239
like the Sabonis alburn or they's done jack shit in

3893
02:55:46,280 --> 02:55:47,040
the middle of the season.

3894
02:55:47,799 --> 02:55:53,000
Speaker 2: I think it's fair to view them favorably because they

3895
02:55:53,159 --> 02:55:56,239
preserved some flexibility, I guess, but I think I think

3896
02:55:56,440 --> 02:56:02,479
I'm almost pricing that into what a good like value deal.

3897
02:56:02,559 --> 02:56:04,879
The DeRozan acquisition was like, I you know what I mean,

3898
02:56:04,920 --> 02:56:06,360
I'm kind of thinking of it the same way. You

3899
02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:09,159
didn't give up a bunch of that stuff to get DeRozan.

3900
02:56:09,479 --> 02:56:12,440
So I'm sort of pricing what you're talking about into

3901
02:56:13,239 --> 02:56:15,120
the DeRozan trade, and you know what I mean. Like,

3902
02:56:15,680 --> 02:56:18,159
so I'm I'm viewing that positively too, just kind of

3903
02:56:19,360 --> 02:56:20,239
from a different angle.

3904
02:56:21,079 --> 02:56:22,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what now that I'm just I'm kind

3905
02:56:22,719 --> 02:56:26,479
of looking at it like that was a like that

3906
02:56:26,680 --> 02:56:28,959
davy On Mitchell is so curious, like you had to

3907
02:56:29,000 --> 02:56:31,760
give up stuff like the Portland twenty twenty five second

3908
02:56:32,600 --> 02:56:34,440
when you also want to give up two additional seconds

3909
02:56:34,479 --> 02:56:36,879
and the de Marta rozen thing. That's like an I

3910
02:56:36,920 --> 02:56:38,680
guess a neutral move at best, because I don't think

3911
02:56:38,719 --> 02:56:40,799
Joe McDaniels is going to play a role in theory.

3912
02:56:40,840 --> 02:56:42,959
He's an archetype of player that could help. How many

3913
02:56:42,959 --> 02:56:44,600
teams have now said that only to find out it's

3914
02:56:44,600 --> 02:56:47,079
not true all I think I even said when Philly

3915
02:56:47,159 --> 02:56:49,079
traded for him a couple of years ago, I was like, yeah,

3916
02:56:50,000 --> 02:56:52,639
what a don't move. C plus feels fair, So I'll

3917
02:56:52,639 --> 02:56:54,479
say B minus for myself, but C plus is a

3918
02:56:54,559 --> 02:56:56,360
podcast grade feels fair.

3919
02:56:56,639 --> 02:56:59,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, again, like there's a lot there's real upside if

3920
02:56:59,719 --> 02:57:02,079
maybe the offense is like top three again or whatever.

3921
02:57:02,120 --> 02:57:03,719
You know, it was number one a couple of years ago.

3922
02:57:03,840 --> 02:57:06,239
Maybe maybe it gets there. It's just like, I don't

3923
02:57:06,280 --> 02:57:09,680
think it's reasonable to say because we added a twenty

3924
02:57:09,719 --> 02:57:12,280
five point per game score, like weird, our offense is

3925
02:57:12,319 --> 02:57:14,680
great now. It's like it's a little more. The fit

3926
02:57:14,840 --> 02:57:16,440
is a little more complicated than that.

3927
02:57:17,639 --> 02:57:20,719
Speaker 1: So I feel like when it makes sense to wrap up,

3928
02:57:20,799 --> 02:57:22,639
I can read off the grades that we came to

3929
02:57:22,680 --> 02:57:24,479
as a podcast for every team. I have a question

3930
02:57:24,680 --> 02:57:26,479
first though, Oh, I'm not going to edit this out.

3931
02:57:26,879 --> 02:57:28,559
Do you remember what we gave the Spurs?

3932
02:57:29,840 --> 02:57:31,520
Speaker 2: Hmm B.

3933
02:57:32,920 --> 02:57:34,760
Speaker 1: I left all three of our fields blank.

3934
02:57:35,719 --> 02:57:41,159
Speaker 2: Good question. Let's see, I'm trying to trying to time travel.

3935
02:57:41,760 --> 02:57:42,920
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was a B.

3936
02:57:43,399 --> 02:57:45,280
Speaker 2: I think it was in the B range. It wasn't

3937
02:57:45,280 --> 02:57:49,840
an A. H. I don't think we're going with a B.

3938
02:57:50,040 --> 02:57:51,879
Speaker 1: If you listen to the Spurs segment and it wasn't

3939
02:57:51,920 --> 02:57:54,239
a B. Uh, I don't. I don't know why I

3940
02:57:54,239 --> 02:57:56,280
didn't put it in there, but hey, we're trying to

3941
02:57:56,360 --> 02:58:00,159
multitask here. So here we go, and I'm gonna go

3942
02:58:00,200 --> 02:58:01,920
through the entire league because the East is now done.

3943
02:58:02,239 --> 02:58:04,399
The Atlanta Hawks Hardwood Knox has given them a C

3944
02:58:04,559 --> 02:58:07,319
minus for their offseason. The Boston Celtics got a flat A.

3945
02:58:07,760 --> 02:58:10,680
The Brooklyn Nets got an A plus. The Charlotte Hornets

3946
02:58:10,719 --> 02:58:14,239
gotta B. The Chicago Bulls got an F because Grant's

3947
02:58:14,239 --> 02:58:15,959
a coward and wouldn't let us go with an F minus.

3948
02:58:16,760 --> 02:58:20,040
The Cleveland Cavaliers gotta be. The Dallas Mavericks got an

3949
02:58:20,040 --> 02:58:23,200
A plus. The Denver Nuggets got an F again Grant

3950
02:58:23,239 --> 02:58:25,520
trying to be the voice of reason here. The Detroit

3951
02:58:25,600 --> 02:58:29,159
Pistons got a C plus. The Golden State Warriors gotta B.

3952
02:58:29,760 --> 02:58:32,680
The Houston Rockets got an A minus. The Pacers got

3953
02:58:32,760 --> 02:58:36,360
a D plus, The Clippers got an F. The Lakers

3954
02:58:36,559 --> 02:58:39,239
got an F. The Grizzlies got a D. That's a

3955
02:58:39,360 --> 02:58:43,200
really rough stretch of teams, my god, D minus for

3956
02:58:43,239 --> 02:58:46,440
the Grizzlies, though. The Miami Heat gotta B. The Milwaukee

3957
02:58:46,559 --> 02:58:49,399
Bucks gott a B plus. The Minnesota Timberwolves gotta be.

3958
02:58:49,959 --> 02:58:53,000
The New Orleans Pelicans got a D plus. The New

3959
02:58:53,079 --> 02:58:55,799
York Knicks gott a B plus. The Oklahoma City Thunder

3960
02:58:55,879 --> 02:58:58,799
got an A plus. The Orlando Magic gotta C. The

3961
02:58:58,799 --> 02:59:02,360
Philadelphia seventy six received an A plus. The Phoenix Suns

3962
02:59:02,399 --> 02:59:05,920
got an A minus. The Portland Trailblazers, Why do what?

3963
02:59:06,040 --> 02:59:06,600
Speaker 2: This is wrong?

3964
02:59:06,879 --> 02:59:09,319
Speaker 1: The Portland Trailblazers gotta be minus. I had them as

3965
02:59:09,360 --> 02:59:10,440
an A plus for a second.

3966
02:59:10,559 --> 02:59:11,239
Speaker 2: That was generous.

3967
02:59:11,719 --> 02:59:14,600
Speaker 1: The Sacramento Kings got a CE plus. The San Antonio

3968
02:59:14,719 --> 02:59:18,479
Spurs we think gotta be. The Toronto Raptors gotta see

3969
02:59:19,239 --> 02:59:22,639
the Utah Jazz gotta be minus. And the Washington Wizards

3970
02:59:23,120 --> 02:59:27,159
of Grant Hughes fame. So Grant Hughes Washington Wizards gotta

3971
02:59:27,200 --> 02:59:30,920
B plus. We did it, and it only took us

3972
02:59:30,959 --> 02:59:35,719
six hours of podcasting to come to our consensus. Hardwood

3973
02:59:35,760 --> 02:59:39,040
Knocks twenty twenty four off season report card grades.

3974
02:59:39,319 --> 02:59:39,879
Speaker 2: How do you feel?

3975
02:59:39,959 --> 02:59:41,040
Speaker 1: How are you feeling, Grant.

3976
02:59:40,959 --> 02:59:45,479
Speaker 2: I mean, outside of forgetting, like within the same hour,

3977
02:59:45,639 --> 02:59:48,600
what we gave a team. Let it not be said

3978
02:59:48,639 --> 02:59:50,559
that we are anything less than thorough.

3979
02:59:51,479 --> 02:59:54,159
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope we gave them like I hope

3980
02:59:54,159 --> 02:59:55,479
we game like a seed plus or something.

3981
02:59:55,520 --> 02:59:58,040
Speaker 2: And I really hope we're way off. Yeah, I really hope.

3982
02:59:58,079 --> 03:00:01,559
So just because I feel good, I feel like, you know,

3983
03:00:02,040 --> 03:00:04,559
there's I already can see like there's three or four

3984
03:00:04,600 --> 03:00:07,399
teams that the regrades are going to be really really interesting.

3985
03:00:08,399 --> 03:00:09,879
But yeah, I feel good. I feel like we have

3986
03:00:10,559 --> 03:00:13,120
We're ready for the season. Now it's sick we got

3987
03:00:13,319 --> 03:00:14,479
like almost two months.

3988
03:00:14,520 --> 03:00:17,159
Speaker 1: We should you want to go back and grade our regrade,

3989
03:00:17,280 --> 03:00:19,639
regrade our regrades of the twenty twenty two offseason.

3990
03:00:20,040 --> 03:00:22,360
Speaker 2: Kind of, we'll just see what happens. We'd be really

3991
03:00:22,399 --> 03:00:23,159
accurate by now.

3992
03:00:23,440 --> 03:00:24,559
Speaker 1: By the way, I think this is going to be

3993
03:00:24,600 --> 03:00:26,200
the first time you and I have put out a

3994
03:00:26,280 --> 03:00:30,879
three hour podcast like single episode, so here's hoping that

3995
03:00:31,000 --> 03:00:34,239
it does more than five years downloads. Are you ready

3996
03:00:34,239 --> 03:00:34,879
to take us out of here?

3997
03:00:34,920 --> 03:00:35,040
Speaker 2: Though?

3998
03:00:35,079 --> 03:00:36,479
Speaker 1: Yeply couldn't be.

3999
03:00:37,719 --> 03:00:40,399
Speaker 2: I got another hour, and you know, I really want

4000
03:00:40,440 --> 03:00:43,280
to talk about the you know, so thanks everybody for watching,

4001
03:00:43,319 --> 03:00:45,200
for listening three hours. Good for you if you made

4002
03:00:45,239 --> 03:00:46,600
it through the whole thing and didn't just listen to

4003
03:00:46,639 --> 03:00:48,120
your team, but we love you too. If that's all

4004
03:00:48,159 --> 03:00:51,120
you did, I would do the same thing. Probably remember

4005
03:00:51,360 --> 03:00:54,280
rate review. Dan dislikes that. I'm just trying to be

4006
03:00:54,319 --> 03:00:55,280
honest with the audience.

4007
03:00:55,319 --> 03:00:55,440
Speaker 1: You know.

4008
03:00:55,600 --> 03:00:57,440
Speaker 2: Three I look at a three hour podcast and I'm like,

4009
03:00:57,479 --> 03:00:59,760
how sick am? I says the guy wearing a matching

4010
03:01:00,040 --> 03:01:03,479
out Sicko shirt with his fellow inmate asylum on the screen.

4011
03:01:05,079 --> 03:01:08,639
Thanks for watching, Thanks for you for listening. Rate review, Subscribe,

4012
03:01:08,680 --> 03:01:11,639
Tell your friends, Tell your enemies, Join our discord, check

4013
03:01:11,680 --> 03:01:13,879
out our merch. Dan and I are wearing it right

4014
03:01:13,959 --> 03:01:16,799
now for you. The hat is behind me, right on

4015
03:01:16,920 --> 03:01:20,239
my shelter. What if I put the hat onto.

4016
03:01:21,639 --> 03:01:22,879
Speaker 1: You should throw it on right now.

4017
03:01:26,719 --> 03:01:31,559
Speaker 2: Hats on. Tell your friends, Tell your enemies. Shouts Frank apologies.

4018
03:01:31,639 --> 03:01:32,159
Jared Allen