1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: You're the one who said that broccoli is good. I 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:02,600 believe it. 3 00:00:03,799 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: Even George H. W. Bush, I'm a real squash. Even 4 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,720 George H. W. Bush hated bly right for the left 5 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:10,400 of him. 6 00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:16,359 Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,359 what you can do for your country. 8 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,879 Speaker 3: Mister Gorbachoff, tear down this wall. 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,679 Speaker 1: It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and 10 00:00:27,839 --> 00:00:30,480 Steven Hayward and myself James Lillas. Today we talked to 11 00:00:30,519 --> 00:00:33,719 our old friend Anny McCarthy about the cabinet nominations and 12 00:00:33,799 --> 00:00:35,920 more so, let's have ourselves a podcast. 13 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:39,079 Speaker 4: It comes to the selection of Representative Gates. I just 14 00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:41,880 think it's silly. I believe that the President is probably 15 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,079 rewarding him for being such a loyal soldier to the president. 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,719 But the President is smart enough and his team is 17 00:00:48,759 --> 00:00:50,840 smart enough to know that mister Gates will never get 18 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:51,920 confirmed by the Center. 19 00:00:52,039 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 5: We will have so much winning if I get elected 20 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,280 that you may get bored with winning. 21 00:00:58,200 --> 00:00:58,799 Speaker 3: Believe me. 22 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,439 Speaker 1: Welcome, It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and seventeen. 23 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,879 I'm James Lilacs on a beautiful crisp fall day in 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,439 November in Minnesota, and I'm joined by Charles C. W. 25 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 6: Cook. 26 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,519 Speaker 1: I presume in Florida, and Stephen Hayward, Lord knows where 27 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,319 you are. Where have events taken you today? 28 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 7: I'm in Washington, D C. At the Annual Conference of 29 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:21,920 the Federal Society. 30 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: Ah, you were in the thick of it. You are 31 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,280 in the belly, yes, Brant, or you're in coreus Gant. Great, Well, 32 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,239 we'll get to what the capital is doing and how 33 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:32,200 you are. I assume you've taken a cab driver a 34 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,120 cab and have some wisdom to impart from the cab driver, 35 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,439 since that's every columnists cliche. 36 00:01:38,519 --> 00:01:39,159 Speaker 3: But not really. 37 00:01:39,719 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 7: You know, the cab driving population here, as I think 38 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:43,719 you know, is overwhelmingly foreign. 39 00:01:44,079 --> 00:01:46,159 Speaker 3: They do tend to listen to NPR a lot. 40 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 7: I noticed when I ride around Washington with the cabs, 41 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:52,599 and so I generally shy away from trying to play 42 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:53,640 Tom Friedman in the cab. 43 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: Right when I lived there, it was an influx of 44 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,640 Afghan doctors for some reason. Every single cab driver I 45 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,799 had was a neurosurgeon from cow. All right, gentlemen, here's 46 00:02:01,799 --> 00:02:03,599 my theory. I'm going to toss it out. Hear me out. 47 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,719 Trump has been playing a long game, and the reason 48 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,640 that he ran for the presidency in the first place 49 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:09,879 was not because he got to pickle up his posterior 50 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,680 when they needled him at the correspondence. Genner no as 51 00:02:13,719 --> 00:02:17,080 a devote of McDonald's food. This is all about using 52 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:21,240 his power to bring back frying French fries in beef tallow. 53 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,439 And that's why the RFK appointment is in there. RFK 54 00:02:24,599 --> 00:02:26,759 is going to say that what we've done to our 55 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,599 food is an abomination, and at a minimum, we should 56 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:33,719 go back to frying our French fries in beef tallow 57 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:34,680 because they're better. 58 00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 3: So we have all these. 59 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: Cabinet denominations, some of which landed a little bit better 60 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,280 than others. Is there anyone particular that you guys find out, 61 00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:47,879 I mean, RFK, we want to have a talk about floridation. Okay, 62 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:50,120 we can have a talk about floridation after all these years. 63 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,639 But going back on the idea of vaccines being a 64 00:02:54,759 --> 00:02:58,120 useful tool to prevent disease in children and otherwise seems 65 00:02:58,439 --> 00:03:02,199 a conversation that we could maybe not have for a while. 66 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,080 Take up seed oils if you want, take up high 67 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,879 fruit toast corn syrup. 68 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: If you like. 69 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,879 Speaker 1: But let's let's not do the vaccine thing. 70 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 3: Or you should go first on this. 71 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,439 Speaker 2: One, on Rfkjunior or in general. 72 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: In general, you pick a nomination, Who do you like, 73 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,639 who do you not? I mean, we're going to talk 74 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,680 We got Anny McCarthy coming up, and we're going to 75 00:03:22,719 --> 00:03:25,199 talk about Matt in a bit, so take that one 76 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:26,479 off the table for a well. 77 00:03:26,599 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: I think that the good nominations have been very very good, 78 00:03:29,319 --> 00:03:32,840 and the bad nominations have been very very bad. If 79 00:03:32,879 --> 00:03:37,439 I can't talk about Matt Gates, I'll talk about RFK Jr. 80 00:03:37,919 --> 00:03:38,719 Speaker 6: Who's a crank. 81 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: And the argument for him is based on the logical 82 00:03:41,159 --> 00:03:44,840 fallacy that because HHS is a disaster and the public 83 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:47,919 health establishment has disgraced itself, both of which are true, 84 00:03:48,639 --> 00:03:54,960 we therefore should are obliged to put in someone awful 85 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,599 into a department of the federal government, the controls I 86 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:02,439 think twenty percent of the entire budget. I don't think 87 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:06,840 it's a secret that I am one of URFK Junior's 88 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,360 biggest critics. I think there is very little redeeming about him, 89 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,080 and what is redeeming doesn't particularly intersect with HHS, that 90 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:14,719 being his. 91 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,439 Speaker 6: Desire to make. 92 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: America healthy, which is fine. Broccoli is good, root loops 93 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,600 are bad for you. But I don't need to hand 94 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:30,439 over twenty percent of the federal government to Kennedy to 95 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,720 make those reforms. And I'll finish by saying, I think 96 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,120 that even those people who wish to see wholesale changes 97 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,959 in that area I'm not opposed to that would be 98 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,360 better served by choosing somebody better. Not that he's available, 99 00:04:45,399 --> 00:04:47,959 but someone like a Ron DeSantis really could go in 100 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,879 there and shake things up. I think RFK Junior, if 101 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:52,240 he gets through the nomination, will not. 102 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: Charles, I would have disagree with you about this because 103 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,680 I don't think that broccoli is good. As a matter 104 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:57,959 of fact. 105 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:00,879 Speaker 3: I think it's yeah, and I think loops are awesome. 106 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:02,120 But that's me, Stephen. 107 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:03,519 Speaker 1: What do you like and what are you not? 108 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:04,639 Speaker 6: Well? 109 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 7: I think well, I agree with Charles that RFK is 110 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,160 a dubious appointment at best. If he were, you know, 111 00:05:13,199 --> 00:05:16,040 supposedly he was on the list of possible EPA directors 112 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,759 under Obama back in two thousand and nine, and if 113 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:23,240 he or Biden Obama Biden had put RFK in the cabinet, 114 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,199 I think our team would be appalled, opposed, up in arms, 115 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:31,000 and this is partly tribal politics. On the other hand, 116 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,879 you know, I think why this is happening, Why Matt Gates, 117 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,720 why Pete Hegseth, And I don't lump all three of 118 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,560 them together, by the way, I think hegscith is. I 119 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,279 think I agree with Charlie and this is a worthy 120 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:42,399 of appointment. 121 00:05:43,319 --> 00:05:44,959 Speaker 3: They there's two things. 122 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,879 Speaker 7: Trump wants loyalty, and he's appointed people who he thinks 123 00:05:47,879 --> 00:05:50,399 will be much more loyal to him than this first term. 124 00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:52,959 I'm doubtful about RFK by the way. He could easily 125 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:56,360 go off the reservation very fast, depending on a variety 126 00:05:56,399 --> 00:06:00,720 of things. And he wants disruptors, and in you know, Gates, 127 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,519 I think hakesa two and certainly a RFK. You see 128 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:05,800 people who want to go in and you know, smash 129 00:06:05,879 --> 00:06:09,800 up the joint, disrupt the places that might create chaos. 130 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,879 I have to say, I get a warm, fuzzy feeling 131 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:13,600 when I read, as I did in the paper this 132 00:06:13,639 --> 00:06:16,439 morning that something like forty percent of the staff of 133 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,160 the Centers for Disease Control say they'll quit if RFK 134 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:23,079 has made a Secretary of Health and Human Services. It 135 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,000 was like Boster making Elon Musk job of reducts reducing 136 00:06:26,079 --> 00:06:27,079 federal employees. Easy. 137 00:06:27,879 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: We hear about this, we hear about this, Justice, we 138 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:31,920 hear about this at FBI. Everyone's heading for the exits, 139 00:06:31,959 --> 00:06:33,920 and you get the picture almost of a silent movie 140 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,079 comedy skit where you have, you know, a variety of 141 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:40,879 corpulent people attempting to fit the door at the same time. Yeah, 142 00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:45,439 I mean, it's it's it's the government. It's downsizing version 143 00:06:45,519 --> 00:06:49,040 of self deportation. Yes. One of the ones that I 144 00:06:49,079 --> 00:06:52,480 found interesting because I had no idea who he was 145 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,360 was John Jay Ray, which I like, you know, a 146 00:06:55,399 --> 00:06:58,399 comedian from the you can call me John j Ray. 147 00:06:58,480 --> 00:06:59,959 Speaker 3: The third who. 148 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: Is being floated for Secretary of Education, And I thought 149 00:07:04,199 --> 00:07:07,639 that was interesting because we've had the statement that the 150 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:12,480 Department of Education should be eliminated, which causes hair to 151 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:18,879 erupt spontaneously all over in certain quarters, because how can 152 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:21,879 you say that with the appalling educational results that we 153 00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:25,720 already have in the country. How can you because they 154 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:29,279 don't have any students. Because the very idea of dismantling 155 00:07:29,319 --> 00:07:31,720 this top down apparatus and taking the money and giving 156 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,279 the responsibility back to the states seems like a capital 157 00:07:35,319 --> 00:07:38,800 idea because It's not as if we've had an efflorescence 158 00:07:38,879 --> 00:07:41,439 of brilliance in our public school system. Since the Department 159 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,279 of Education was established, We've had a series of mandates 160 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:48,800 and ideas and acronyms and the rest of it, all 161 00:07:48,839 --> 00:07:53,079 of which have distorted and contorted and led to appalling results. 162 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,000 The only chart that you have to show people, really 163 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,120 is the chart that shows the amount of money that 164 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,480 I'm going to students and the amount of money that's 165 00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:02,000 been going to administrators. 166 00:08:02,519 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: That's all you need to do. 167 00:08:04,079 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: And if you say that you know we're going to 168 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:09,360 take that money, we're going to give it back to 169 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,959 the states along with control and have people will have 170 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:15,040 the well again, they're terrified of that because they think 171 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,199 then that the people who show up and complain at 172 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:19,319 the school board meetings about books in the schools are 173 00:08:19,319 --> 00:08:22,839 going to be the ones who dominate the local politics. 174 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:27,480 It's just not a necessary department. Ray I knew nothing 175 00:08:27,519 --> 00:08:29,439 about him, was the guy who was put in charge 176 00:08:29,439 --> 00:08:33,679 of FTX, the crypto Buddy after it fell apart. And 177 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,200 the reason that I trust him if he takes his 178 00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:37,960 job because according to the Wikipedia page, he's paid a 179 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,840 two hundred thousand dollars annual retreat retainer and makes one 180 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:45,799 three hundred dollars an hour as the CEO of FTX 181 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,840 by his appointment. So if he's willing to give up 182 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,679 that kind of capital in order to do this, I'm 183 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,320 thinking he might be coming in to dismantle and help 184 00:08:54,639 --> 00:08:58,840 take apart the Department of Education or are we all 185 00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:02,639 just hoffened the paint fumes and it is never going 186 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,879 to happen, because when is an never win? Is a 187 00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:06,720 cabinet position ever gone away? 188 00:09:07,519 --> 00:09:10,399 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it looks like an odd appointment. 189 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,519 Speaker 7: I mean, usually you want someone who has some background 190 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,600 in education and you know, from our point of view, 191 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,120 a sensible reformer like you know, William Bennett in the 192 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,840 eighties or Betsy Davos and Trump's first term. 193 00:09:20,879 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: And yeah, this guy looks like someone who is not a. 194 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 7: Special a specialist in receiverships and bankruptcies. 195 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 3: But that's kind of what he's looking at here. 196 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,159 Speaker 7: He wants to go through and dismantle the assets of 197 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,600 the Department of Education. Some functions I think you have 198 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,399 to keep that predated the department when Jimmy Carter created it. Uh, 199 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,440 you know, I made a suggestion online, but two three 200 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,360 weeks ago that one of the things that Trump Education 201 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,200 Department should do on day one is copy what the 202 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,480 Obama and Biden administrations did, namely, send a Dear Colleague 203 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,799 letter like they did with Title nine, to every university 204 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,519 and say it is the legal opinion of the Trump 205 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:02,159 administration that every de ie office of the university is 206 00:10:02,279 --> 00:10:05,399 a presumptive violation of Title six of the Civil Rights Act. 207 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:08,720 And unless you abolish them, not rename them, not shuffle 208 00:10:08,799 --> 00:10:12,000 deck chairs, but abolish them and dismiss their employees and 209 00:10:12,039 --> 00:10:14,159 get rid of all the rules and guidelines, we are 210 00:10:14,159 --> 00:10:16,159 cutting off your federal funding today. 211 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: And Trump this morning said something very close to that. 212 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 7: He said my first week in office, I'm going to 213 00:10:21,639 --> 00:10:25,080 tell universities through the Department of Education, if they don't 214 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,039 and their tolerance of anti Semitism on campus, We're going 215 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,480 to review their accreditation and cut off their federal funding. 216 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,879 You know, if the Department of Education and this secretary 217 00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:37,720 does things like that, then Democrats will want to abolish 218 00:10:37,759 --> 00:10:41,559 the department. So again, I like a very aggressive strategy 219 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,759 possibly that we're seeing shape up so far. 220 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: Charles, how do you think that's going to play out? 221 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,559 Because people are also saying in addition to the dear 222 00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:53,080 colleague letter to the universities telling them to knock it 223 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,960 off with tolerating the anti semitism, there's been floated, as 224 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,080 ever again, the idea of taxing the endowments, taxing the 225 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,039 endowments and using the money to fund a free online 226 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:08,519 university which would be accredited that people could use that 227 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,600 people who do not have access to the IVS, shall 228 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:13,080 we say, would be able to use? 229 00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:14,919 Speaker 3: What do you think of that idea? 230 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:15,399 Speaker 5: No? 231 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 6: I just want to text them anyway. 232 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 2: Yes, you know why because President Biden illegally and willfully 233 00:11:25,799 --> 00:11:29,240 spent I think the most recent number is one hundred 234 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,919 and forty billion dollars. The aim was to spend five 235 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,679 hundred billion dollars on transferring the liability for student loans 236 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,360 from the people who took them out, spent them, and 237 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:42,080 benefited from them to people who didn't. That money is 238 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:47,279 going to come from somewhere taxes or debt, which eventually 239 00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:51,720 becomes taxes, and I would like to see that money 240 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:57,000 paid back so that no funds are taken away from 241 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,440 the people who did not benefit from those college educations. 242 00:12:02,879 --> 00:12:04,320 There are a bunch of things raised that I would 243 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,960 just say on the Department of Education, I'm entirely in 244 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,480 favor of its abolition. It shouldn't exist. There's no federal 245 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,120 role for education. It shouldn't be. The likelihood of Congress 246 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,799 using its political capital to do this, given the hyperbole 247 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,879 and demagoguery that that would yield. 248 00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 6: From the left, I think is relatively small. 249 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 2: Perhaps you might get something in reconciliation to reduce its budget, 250 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,919 although I won't hold my breath. The problem with and 251 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,080 I know he was half joking, The problem with expecting 252 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:39,879 Stephen's excellent idea of the Dear Colleague letter to sell 253 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,159 Democrats on the case for getting rid of the Department 254 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,440 of Education is what you are doing with that, and 255 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,440 what Trump should do with that is reaffirming its power. 256 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,639 And Democrats are just going to want to take it 257 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,399 over again and do the opposite. We're just going to 258 00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:55,799 see cesawing back and forth letters on due process, on 259 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,559 college campuses, on DII. 260 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:57,879 Speaker 6: And so forth. 261 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 2: But I'm one hundred percent with you on the details. 262 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:04,639 I think that the best thing and I know a 263 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:06,639 lot of people on the right were squishy about this, 264 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,960 I wasn't The best thing Trump did in this area 265 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:13,159 was right toward the end of his first administration where 266 00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:16,799 he sent a letter to was it Princeton after Princeton 267 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,600 announced that it was racist in that glorious Summer of 268 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:25,279 Nonsense twenty twenty, Princeton said, we are a racist institution. 269 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 6: Could have been yeah, I can't remember, but one of. 270 00:13:27,159 --> 00:13:30,279 Speaker 2: These big ivs said we are a racist institution. And 271 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,039 Trump's doj I think, said oh, well, if you're a 272 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,600 racist institution, then we're obliged under the law to investigate you. 273 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,039 Speaker 3: Yeah. 274 00:13:39,279 --> 00:13:44,759 Speaker 2: That's absolutely, quite seriously, that is absolutely what the federal 275 00:13:44,799 --> 00:13:51,080 government should be doing. The DEI push is obviously in 276 00:13:51,159 --> 00:13:53,600 violation of the Civil Rights Act, and if you believe 277 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,320 that the Affirmative Action decision was correct, arguably of the 278 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,000 Fourteenth Amendment acid has been construed by the Supreme Court 279 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:04,879 as well. And while conservatives are in charge of these organizations, 280 00:14:04,919 --> 00:14:07,200 if they're not going to abolish them, which they should, 281 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,000 they should be directing them precisely this way. 282 00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 6: I'm with you on that. 283 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: The problem, of course, is that if you have an 284 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,799 online university only, then you don't have toga parties. And 285 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,480 if you don't have toga parties, then you don't have 286 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:20,600 those rituals of college, where, of course, the next day 287 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:23,120 you drag yourself off to class. The problem is, of course, 288 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:25,200 is that you know when you do that and you 289 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,279 over indulge, you feel bad. But let me tell you 290 00:14:27,399 --> 00:14:29,720 there's a sure fire away to wake up feeling fresh 291 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,519 the next day after a night of toga party. And 292 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,679 that's with pre alcohol pre alcohol. That's right, zbiotics pre 293 00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:41,159 alcohol probiotic drink. It's the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. 294 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,080 It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle those rough 295 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,919 mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, 296 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,000 alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut, 297 00:14:51,039 --> 00:14:55,360 and it's this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for 298 00:14:55,399 --> 00:14:59,159 your rough next day. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to 299 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,080 break this by product down. Just remember to make zbiotics 300 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,639 your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly, and you'll 301 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:08,879 feel your best tomorrow. Now, you know me, I've been 302 00:15:08,919 --> 00:15:11,440 talking about this for a long time and I don't 303 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,080 like to do anything and tell you about it that 304 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,480 I haven't done. And I've done this and it was 305 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:18,120 sort of like a you know, some assignments are oh boy, 306 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,080 do I have to. But the other is try this 307 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:25,080 and have yourself a scotch and I did and I 308 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:25,799 felt great. 309 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: So this is it. 310 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:33,159 Speaker 1: Though with their GMO technology, z biotics is continuing to 311 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,559 invent probiotics. 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You got nothing to lose, so remember 319 00:15:57,039 --> 00:15:59,799 head to zbiotics dot com slash ricochet and use the 320 00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:03,000 code to Ricochet at the checkout for fifteen percent off. 321 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,799 And we thanks the Biotics sponsoring this the Ricochet podcast. 322 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:10,200 And now we welcome to the podcast a brand new guest. 323 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,039 We've never talked to you before and we're eager to 324 00:16:12,039 --> 00:16:15,279 pick his brain on a variety of I'm kidding it's 325 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:19,279 one of our faves. Andy McCarthy Anna McCarthy, Senior Fellow 326 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,480 with the National Review Institute and our contributing editor and 327 00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:27,080 the author of Ball of Collusion, the plot to rig 328 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,799 an election and destroy a presidency. Well, that presidency is back, 329 00:16:31,879 --> 00:16:33,559 and so is Andy. How are you doing today. 330 00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:36,879 Speaker 5: I'm doing great, guys. How are you good? 331 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,799 Speaker 3: Capital All right? 332 00:16:38,879 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: You know we've been talking Trump appointments. We wanted to 333 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,559 save one for you, so we know you probably have 334 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,240 some thoughts about it. So if you could just tell 335 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,960 us where do you stand on Telsea Gambert? 336 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:52,559 Speaker 3: No, I'm kidding. 337 00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:54,799 Speaker 1: You know who I'm talking about. 338 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, Gates is an appalling appointment. But it's funny 339 00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:03,799 that you mentioned gab because I think there's a logic 340 00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:09,319 to those two appointments together. I think Trump believes, and 341 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:16,200 he's got colorable reasons for this, that the main insiders 342 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,079 in the government that went after him were in the 343 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,119 Justice Department and the intelligence community. And I think if 344 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:30,559 you think of Gabbard and Gates as being sent into 345 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:34,640 those agencies to kind of clean house and either get 346 00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:39,559 rid of or marginalize the people that Trump believes not 347 00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:46,119 only gun for him, but in general politicize their authority, 348 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,599 which is a big problem in the government and in 349 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,400 particular in the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus. Then those 350 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,759 appointments make sense. I don't have to like them, but 351 00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:59,240 I think that that's the logic of the appointments. 352 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 7: It's Steve Hayward in Washington. I'm actually at the annual 353 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,799 Federal Society Conference, where I know you've been president in 354 00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:06,680 the years past. 355 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 3: And no one has taken a poll. 356 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,079 Speaker 7: But everyone you talk to is similarly appalled at the 357 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,480 Gates nomination and think there is zero chance he will 358 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,400 be confirmed. I mean, I have my theories about this 359 00:18:19,519 --> 00:18:23,519 that are congruent with yours. Trump wants disruptors, he wants 360 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:25,400 people who he thinks will be loyal to him when 361 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,279 he thinks he couldn't count on I think incorrectly he 362 00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:30,839 couldn't count on his first attorney generals from Trump one. 363 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,519 But boy, I don't know. I'm sort of a loss 364 00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:39,279 to say, how could you have thought this is a 365 00:18:39,279 --> 00:18:41,440 good idea. I mean, I get the other people, even 366 00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:44,119 RFK Junior, I get to a certain extent, even though 367 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,359 I think that's a dubious idea. I kind of get 368 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,200 that one, but this one's a real head scratcher. 369 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,839 Speaker 5: Well, during the I've kind of made a resolution, Steve, 370 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,279 that I'm not going to get myself old whipped up 371 00:18:56,279 --> 00:19:00,000 about the second Trump administration, because I was actually talking 372 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:05,720 a Rich Lowry before on our podcast about this. If 373 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:09,359 you look like month to month in the last Trump administration, 374 00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:12,240 there would be NonStop drama. I used to call the 375 00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:17,119 Twitter feed all in, all the time, right, right. And 376 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,200 then there were the people who provided guardrails for him, 377 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,119 the Bill Boarrs and Mike Pompeo's and those guys of 378 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,039 the world. Right. So if you rode this thing like 379 00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:30,839 a daily rollercoaster, it would drive you nuts. But if 380 00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:32,839 you looked at where the country was on the first 381 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,279 of the month and the thirtieth of the month, it 382 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,720 was pretty much the same place. And it was there 383 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,079 was a lot of There was a lot of good 384 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,240 I think more good than bad certainly during those four years. 385 00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:48,640 So I'm going to try not to get whipped up 386 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,359 about the ups and downs. I think this is an 387 00:19:51,400 --> 00:20:01,359 extraordinary one because the Framers put the Senate vetting of 388 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:08,000 high government officials into the Constitution precisely to protect liberty 389 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,480 and because they didn't want too much power to be 390 00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:16,200 accumulated in any one person's hands. So the president gets 391 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,640 to fire anyone that he wants in the Justice Department. 392 00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:25,240 But you can't appoint somebody who can't get past the Senate, 393 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,359 which is supposed to be looking for whether they have 394 00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:31,519 the characters, the scruples, and the capabilities to do the 395 00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:36,000 job on some sort of minimally acceptable level. And I 396 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,839 have to say, if you don't have a filibuster on confirmations, 397 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,119 and you got a fifty three forty seven Republican majority 398 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,319 in the Senate, and you think you have to do 399 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:53,759 a Kakamami recess appointment scheme to get somebody appointed, then 400 00:20:54,279 --> 00:20:58,240 that should say, even to Trump, this is someone who 401 00:20:58,279 --> 00:21:01,039 you should not appoint. And I just with respect to 402 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:03,960 Trump on the all in, all the time sort of theory, 403 00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:09,519 I don't buy into four dimensional chess theories of Trump. 404 00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:12,640 I am totally even though I would find this hard 405 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,759 to believe in other circumstances. I'm totally open to the 406 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,519 idea that you know, Susie Wiles left the room and 407 00:21:20,599 --> 00:21:25,599 left him together with Boris Epstein and Gates for five minutes, 408 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,440 and then the next thing that you know, Gates was 409 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,400 the attorney general. 410 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 6: Right. 411 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,519 Speaker 5: I totally believe that. I don't think that there's a 412 00:21:31,559 --> 00:21:34,359 great scheme behind this. But the fact that you, the 413 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,480 fact that you would have to do a scheme to 414 00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:41,559 get him confirmed because he's unconfirmable, should say to anybody sensible, 415 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:42,799 don't do this. 416 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 7: Well, I've been tempted to try and advance the joke 417 00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:51,200 that Susie has left her wiles at the door sometimes, right, 418 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,519 you know, we'll see about this, because I'm inclined to 419 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:55,279 think well over from what I've heard, I've never met her, 420 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:56,039 don't know that much. 421 00:21:56,079 --> 00:21:57,799 Speaker 3: But well, that's the related question. 422 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,839 Speaker 7: Was the recess appointment business, and of course that preceded 423 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,000 the Gates appointment. He's Trump talked about that starting sometime 424 00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:08,119 last week, and you know, he's being very demanding and 425 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,400 and I think Charlie. 426 00:22:09,079 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: And I may have a slight difference. 427 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 7: I think Charlie, I think you were harshly critical of 428 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,119 Trump's pushing the recess appointment to a loophole, so to speak. 429 00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:19,920 I you know, I kind of think Trump is using 430 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,839 his old real estate business tactics in politics, which people 431 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:25,920 I think still haven't quite figured out. Right, you asked 432 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,359 for the moon and the stars, and maybe you get 433 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,759 something what you want, and so Andy, I know you're 434 00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:31,599 familiar with the problem that now goes back to the 435 00:22:31,599 --> 00:22:32,279 Watergate era. 436 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:33,839 Speaker 3: You know, after Watergate we have the new. 437 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 7: Ethics Acts, the FBI background checks where everybody takes so long, 438 00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:43,720 more delays and hearings and getting not just cabinets usually 439 00:22:43,799 --> 00:22:46,759 get those through fairly quickly. But you know, the Trump 440 00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:50,240 administration went two three, almost through all four years with 441 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:54,839 certain senior sub cabinet offices not confirmed because of controversies 442 00:22:54,839 --> 00:22:56,319 and delays and background checks. 443 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 3: And people have talked for twenty thirty years. 444 00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 7: Now that this is a problem that has gotten out 445 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,400 of hand, and you know, all the good reform talk 446 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,599 is just not going to change that. So here comes Trump, 447 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,960 blustering as usual, saying, you give me resource appointments and 448 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:09,759 all appoint five. 449 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 3: Hundred people and get things up and running. 450 00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 7: And it is an offense to the constitutional principle of 451 00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,240 advice and consent to the Senate. On the other hand, 452 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,559 maybe this is going to shake things up and make 453 00:23:20,599 --> 00:23:24,279 the Senate and the FBI and all the other processes 454 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,359 maybe behave themselves with a little more dispatch. Is that 455 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,400 plausible or hope is the reason to think that might 456 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,680 be an outcome from this. 457 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:35,799 Speaker 5: I think that Trump doesn't have the same presumption of 458 00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:40,240 illegitimacy in some quarters this time than he had the 459 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:45,720 last time. There have been reforms of the process. I 460 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:49,160 don't remember, Steve, if it's like what year they did it, 461 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,839 but they lowered Charlie may remember exactly when this was, 462 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,160 but they lowered the number of hours that the Senate 463 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,279 can hold up any one nominee from like thirty down 464 00:23:59,319 --> 00:23:59,680 to two. 465 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: I was in twenty nineteen, and it was the brainchild 466 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,240 and stewarded by that rhino squish Mitch McConnell, who were 467 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,240 all supposed to hate but was one of the most 468 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,599 effective conservative figures in the last half century and once 469 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,559 again has improved things here. 470 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 5: Yeah. So I think the other thing Steve is is 471 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:25,839 he's naming these people early in the hope of getting 472 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:28,279 the benefit that I think Obama got. You know, no 473 00:24:28,279 --> 00:24:31,720 one complains that these hurdles that you just described had 474 00:24:31,759 --> 00:24:35,119 any impact on Obama. Right. He started to name people 475 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:41,880 within days after being elected, and by the time he 476 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,319 got in they rat tet tet confirmed his guys. In fact, 477 00:24:46,319 --> 00:24:53,279 I remember this very well because I was ballistic over 478 00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:57,960 the Holder nomination. I had a personal reason to be 479 00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:01,079 ballistic over it. I was in the Southern District of 480 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,039 New York as a prosecutor not only during the Mark 481 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:10,519 Rich debacle, but Susan Rosenberg, the former Weather underground terrorist, 482 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,839 was my defendant. I spent about a year and a 483 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,559 half in a litigation to stop the trial judge in 484 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,920 that case from releasing her from her was it sixty 485 00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:29,720 year prison sentence. This was my one of my favorite 486 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,759 litigations ever because she was represented by Williams and Connolly, 487 00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:38,720 which is like the sort of quasi white shoe criminal 488 00:25:38,799 --> 00:25:42,279 firm in Washington who representing Clinton, and their defense was 489 00:25:42,319 --> 00:25:45,799 that Susan wasn't a terrorist, and the explanation for that 490 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,440 was that their firm didn't represent terrorists and they were 491 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,799 representing her airgo she wasn't a terrorist. So it took 492 00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:56,440 me a year and a half, but I did manage 493 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,079 to talk the judge added that one. But as as 494 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:02,720 soon as we finally got them to rule in our favor, 495 00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:06,240 Clinton pardoned her on his way at the door and 496 00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:11,759 used he used the same offline pardon system that that 497 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,440 holder had designed for Mark Rich, so that that didn't 498 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,279 go through the pardon office, and in a real schevy way, 499 00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:20,480 they got that out the door. So anyway, I was 500 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,039 ballistic over that, but the Mark Rich thing ended up 501 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,359 not mattering. I think Holder got like he was confirmed 502 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,519 something like eighty seven to thirteen or something along those lines. 503 00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:37,279 So you know, I expect that most of Trump's nominees 504 00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:40,599 are going to get that treatment, and I don't think 505 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,960 he needs I just don't believe that he picked Gates 506 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,440 because like he's obviously not going to make it, but 507 00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:52,640 that'll make it easier for you know, for Todd Blanche 508 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,559 or whoever else oh right behind him. I do think 509 00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:58,680 Todd Blanche is likely to end up being the AG, 510 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,200 but I don't think it's I don't think it was 511 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,759 a scheme that Gates would implode and that would make 512 00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:08,799 it easier for the next I think Trump actually wants Gates, 513 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:10,359 and we'll probably fight for them a little bit. 514 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, I know, I thought there's maybe a game through angle. 515 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,519 But I want to back up a step because you 516 00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:19,079 prompted a big point of mind that maybe I'm a 517 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,880 little out there on the edge, but you pot that 518 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,559 you said that Obama managed to get a lot of 519 00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:25,880 people through FARREI quickly, here's the thing about appointments in 520 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,759 the federal bureaucracy is that there's an asymmetry between the 521 00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:31,240 two parties. By that, I mean, and here's where I'm 522 00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:35,039 very direct and blunt. The federal bureaucracy is the partisan 523 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480 instrument of the Democratic Party, yep. And that's been their 524 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,920 intention for years, and I'm always frustrated that Republican candidates 525 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,079 don't ever say that directly. We talked about the deep 526 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,799 state and the swamp and all the rest of that, 527 00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:48,920 and you kind of know what they mean. But the 528 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,839 point is obvious here, which is the permanent bureaucracy. They 529 00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:55,079 don't actually need a Democratic appointees to know what they 530 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,759 want to do. They'll just keep doing it, right. I mean, 531 00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,960 I actually think it's almost literally true. Credit president wouldn't 532 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,519 need to appoint anybody for the bureaucracy to do what 533 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,000 Democrats want the bureaucracy to do. So, but for Republican administrations, 534 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,279 it's crucial to have your appoint easy and if you're 535 00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:13,480 going to have any point of wrestling on the bureaucracy 536 00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,839 and changing policy. And that's why you know, this delay 537 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,599 in appointments is I think so crucial and as I say, 538 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:22,920 has an asymmetric effect on Republican mystery. That's my point, 539 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:24,960 and that's just the response, and healed your point. 540 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 5: Look, I I you know, from another angle of looking 541 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,000 at exactly the same thing. You know, I felt like 542 00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:37,599 I had to rationalize why I decided to vote for 543 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,319 Trump after saying that I think you should have been impeached, removed, 544 00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:48,079 and disqualified, which is something of a you know, a conundrum, 545 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,200 and I'm you know, the the answer, the short answer 546 00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:56,400 is I think, well, I think it's a binary choice. 547 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:02,200 I respect people who don't think that, but like I 548 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,200 come from a background where you know, we put twelve 549 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,079 people in the box and sometimes the government's case is 550 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,480 really crappy, but the defendant is a really bad guy, 551 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,559 and we make the jury decide. You know, there's no choice. See, 552 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,200 it's guilty or not guilty. So I didn't. I don't 553 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,519 feel comfortable, not like making the choice that's in front 554 00:29:23,559 --> 00:29:25,599 of us. But this was like the worst choice in 555 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:30,400 the history of choices. But my best argument for it, 556 00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:33,359 and it may not be an argument that carries the day, 557 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:35,640 but it carried the day for me, is that I 558 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,279 think the system, and in particular the system that you 559 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,839 just described, keeps Republican presidents on the straight and narrow. 560 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,400 That is, those guardrails are real when a Republican is 561 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,519 in power, whereas they're not when a Democrat is in power. 562 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,920 And for that reason I was a lot more worried 563 00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,559 about a Harris administration, which would be you know, basically 564 00:30:01,599 --> 00:30:06,440 the administrative state would not keep them within the guardrails. 565 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,359 In fact, they think it's like rock and roll. When 566 00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:11,640 those guys are in right, they can push through every 567 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,079 single policy piety they want to push through. Whereas I 568 00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:21,279 think one of Republicans in the deep state does its 569 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,920 job in a very aggressive way. So do the courts 570 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,839 tend to congress certainly does the media, business leaders, the 571 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,640 whole array of what we think of when we talk about, 572 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:34,559 you know, the deep state, which is not a term 573 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,000 I love, but I think it's we all at least 574 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:39,039 know what we're talking about when we refer to it. 575 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:47,119 Speaker 2: So Andy my question, I want to jump off what 576 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,960 Steve said. I agree with your characterization of the federal bureaucracy. 577 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 6: Steve. 578 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: I agree with your description of what is different when 579 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,200 a Republican is in power than when a Democrat is 580 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,240 in power, which is why I think Matt Gates is 581 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,119 a disastrous choice. 582 00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:09,319 Speaker 6: In my way of looking at. 583 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,119 Speaker 2: This, this has the potential to be bad for Republicans 584 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,960 and in particular Trump, on both ends. And this is 585 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,799 why I want Andy's feedback on this, because you know 586 00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:20,359 so much more about this than I do. If you 587 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,400 take Kavanagh for example, I thought the way he was 588 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960 treated was disgraceful, dishonest. I was vehemently in favor of 589 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,160 his nomination and fought back against all of the lies. 590 00:31:29,319 --> 00:31:32,279 But I also understood that for certain Republican senators it 591 00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:35,400 was a difficult vote. But that difficult vote was created 592 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,440 purely because the nomination process had been turned into a 593 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,039 circus and allegations had been made that had to be 594 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:45,319 dispensed with. Once Kavanagh was on, unless you're Susan Collins 595 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,720 and you made a show of being pro choice. He 596 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,799 was basically all upside for the Republican Party because they 597 00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:52,759 could go back to their constituents and say, look, we 598 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,200 got an originalist adjacent judge on. 599 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 6: The court with Gates. 600 00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 2: I see both sides of this process being potentially deleterious 601 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,480 for the Right in that he is going to have, 602 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,920 whether they're all true or not, all manner of personal 603 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,359 Peccadillos brought up during his hearings sleeping with seventeen year olds, partying, 604 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,960 taking drugs, all of the boasting about having sex and 605 00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:20,240 using drugs while he was doing it and filming it 606 00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:21,839 and showing it to people in Congress and. 607 00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 6: So forth, that's all going to come up. 608 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: So if you are a Republican senator, you have to 609 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,079 get past that if you want to get to yes. 610 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,359 But also he's then Attorney general. This is the bit 611 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,319 that I think is irritating me. And I will ask 612 00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:35,640 my question in a second, but I keep being told, well, 613 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,400 are you more in favor of the deep state than 614 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,880 of Matt Gates. No, it's because I am bothered by 615 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,559 the bureaucracy that I'm bothered by Matt Gates. And another 616 00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:47,480 one is that look at the last guy, look at 617 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,680 Merrick Island and everything he did. I agree, but let's 618 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,599 not do it again. So Andy, my question. 619 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 6: Is, isn't there. 620 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,279 Speaker 2: A huge risk here? And maybe I'm just wrong, but 621 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,599 isn't there a huge risk here that Matt Gates being 622 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,440 Attorney General as he was self aggrandizing and ill discipline. 623 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:03,279 Speaker 6: Frankly, not that. 624 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 2: Experience or good is going to by being Attorney general 625 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,759 caused Trump problems for two years while he's president, and 626 00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:13,119 he really only has two years until the Democrats are 627 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,920 likely to take back the House. Much more than someone 628 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,400 who was really good at that job wanted to take 629 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,880 on the bureaucracy and wasn't Matt Gates would. 630 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 5: Be Yeah, I think surely the perfect comparison is the 631 00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:30,519 last attorney general that Trump actually had, Bill Barr and Gates. 632 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,720 Barr could see the curveballs coming when they got out 633 00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:39,759 of the pitcher's hand before they exploded. Right, Gates is 634 00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:43,680 not that guy. Gates practiced law for about five minutes 635 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:47,319 and then he dove into electoral politics in Florida. He's 636 00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:52,079 been running for either state legislature or Congress since twenty ten. 637 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,599 There's no reason to believe he knows anything about the 638 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,279 Justice Department. He knows some stuff about, like, for example, 639 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:05,359 the Trump investigations, because he was on committees that looked 640 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,199 at those, but he doesn't know the structure of the 641 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,199 Justice Department. And look, here's a guy. There's a guy 642 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,480 who was in the law for his whole career, Alberto Gonzalez. 643 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,119 The Justice Department ate him alive when he got in there. 644 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,280 And Alberto Gonzalez was about ten times more prepared for 645 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,400 what the Justice Department bureaucracy can do to somebody who's 646 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,599 a novice and who doesn't know where all the levers 647 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,800 are compared to Matt Gates, And what do we know 648 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:41,119 about Matt Gates's legal acumen. The two most notorious positions 649 00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:48,800 he's ever taken were he joined the Kakamami brief in 650 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,280 the Texas case, where the state of Texas was taking 651 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,960 the position that other states state certified electoral votes shouldn't 652 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,760 be counted, which was such an absurd argum amid that 653 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,920 the Supreme Court virtually didn't even entertain it. And that's 654 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,039 with three judges on the bench whom Trump had put 655 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:10,679 on the Supreme Court. And then he took the position 656 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,559 that Vice President Pence had the authority to invalidate or 657 00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:21,440 at least remand state certified electoral votes, which if he 658 00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:25,800 was correct about that, Kamala Harris could stop Trump from 659 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,519 taking office on January sixth. So we have a guy 660 00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:33,800 who's never practiced law, who doesn't know anything that we 661 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,840 can detect about how the Justice Department in the FBI 662 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,320 is structured, who doesn't to my knowledge have a vision 663 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,239 of what reform or to happen at the Justice Department 664 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,960 in the FBI, which is important because those two agencies. 665 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,679 I think Charlie and I on his podcast have done 666 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,679 at least two long discussions about the reform things that 667 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,000 need to be done in connection with those two institutions. 668 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,239 What's Gates's vision of that and how would you accomplish that. 669 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,320 There's no reason to think he knows that. And the 670 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,760 Justice Department, and I say, this is somebody who was 671 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,280 in it for a very long time. It's a very 672 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:16,800 arrogant institution, but it has its ways and its history, 673 00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:20,519 and it has its ways of destroying people who come 674 00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:24,880 in and try to upset the apple cart. And that's 675 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:29,039 just a fact. You need someone like I think that 676 00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:32,400 it badly needs reform, but you need someone like Barr 677 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,280 who knows where all the bodies are buried and where 678 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,840 all the buttons are and knows how they're going to 679 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,280 come at him and how to undermine them. Gates is 680 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,199 going to be in there, and he's going to go into, 681 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,639 for example, the Civil Rights Division, which is the thing 682 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:49,599 that most badly needs reform in the Justice Department, and 683 00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:54,079 he's going to face, like lawyers who've been at the 684 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,840 Justice Department for between ten and twenty years and have 685 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,519 done nothing but civil rights law, which we have no 686 00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:03,719 reason to think Gates even knows anything about. And he's 687 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,400 going to have to go toe to toe with those people. 688 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,840 And there's about a million ways they can undermine on. 689 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is to me is just a perfect 690 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,239 example of how many people in Trump's orbit they mistake 691 00:37:15,639 --> 00:37:19,880 drama for resolve. You want someone with resolve who doesn't 692 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,159 cause drama, because the press will cause drama. They're going 693 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,760 to go after anyone who tries to reform the bureaucracy. 694 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,480 You want somebody who is able to ignore that, somebody 695 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,000 who is more like Rondes Santis in the way that 696 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:32,119 they operate, where they attract all the heat, but they 697 00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:34,760 put ice on it. So my follow up question is, 698 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,039 leave aside who you think would be or you know 699 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,639 would be good, Bill Barb being an example of it. 700 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:48,880 Who who would you appoint if you were president of 701 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,360 the United States to lead this project? 702 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,119 Speaker 6: I mean, if you had carte blanche, and who would 703 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:54,480 you pick? 704 00:37:55,199 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 5: Well, I would want a Mukzy or a bar I 705 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,639 don't know if they would at this point in their 706 00:38:01,639 --> 00:38:05,320 lives disposed to do something like that with respect to 707 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,159 the people who were on the table now, you know, 708 00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:13,280 for example, I think our own from National Review ed 709 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,960 Whalen would be an excellent person at the Justice Department. 710 00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:22,199 Another guy who knows the Justice Department through and through 711 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,000 and would have very developed ideas about things that were wrong, 712 00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:28,159 things that could be reformed, and people who could come 713 00:38:28,159 --> 00:38:30,360 in and help him to do that. I think George 714 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,519 to Williger would be a perfect attorney general. Of the 715 00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:37,119 people who were on the table now, I don't put 716 00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:42,320 anybody in that category who I've heard Trump at least considered. 717 00:38:43,159 --> 00:38:47,360 I think Todd Blanche will be much better than Gates 718 00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:51,320 obviously would have been. Todd was a federal prosecutor for 719 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,719 about ten years before he became a defense lawyer, and 720 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,719 I think he's a solid criminal practitioner. I don't think 721 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,960 he's necessarily a a star in like the bar or 722 00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:07,159 Mukzy league, but he'll be He'd be fine. He's I 723 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,320 thought watching the New York trial that he took a 724 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,039 couple of dumb positions in the defense, which only can 725 00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:17,199 be explained by the fact that he did what Trump 726 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,079 wanted rather than what was good for the defense. So 727 00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:23,519 you'll have to deal with that dynamic. You know, he's 728 00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:27,000 obviously going to serve the master. But I think he'd 729 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,400 be fine. Let's remember, like ninety nine points something percent 730 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,920 of what the Attorney general does is not stuff that 731 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,559 he needs day to day input from the President about. 732 00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:39,960 You know, there's a lot of a lot of stuff 733 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,760 that I don't think Trump would have any interfering any 734 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,639 interest in interfering in, and some of the things I 735 00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:48,079 think Trump would want to interfere in would be helpful, 736 00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,079 like you know, for example, to the extent that he 737 00:39:51,159 --> 00:40:00,119 wants to leverage federal prosecutorial authority in blue blue states, 738 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:07,039 especially the big cities where these progressive prosecutors aren't enforcing 739 00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:10,199 the law. I think Rudy's career in New York shows 740 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,920 that that actually can be very helpful and can make 741 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,320 a big difference in law enforcement. That's the kind of 742 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,800 thing I expect that Trump would want the Justice Department 743 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,559 to do, and it would be beneficial if it were done. 744 00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:25,000 I think Matt Whittaker would probably be fine. Truly. Of 745 00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:29,199 all the people that I've heard mentioned in Trump's orbit, 746 00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:34,679 I think Whittaker is a former US attorney. He was 747 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,199 a chief of staff to an attorney general. He knows 748 00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:42,480 how federal prosecution works, he knows how the Justice Department works. 749 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,599 And I think he'd be fine. And I also think 750 00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:49,599 he'd sail to confirmation. So I'm kind of puzzled other 751 00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:53,159 than other than knowing Trump as we know Trump, why 752 00:40:53,199 --> 00:40:55,679 you wouldn't you know that would be a layup of 753 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,440 a confirmation. 754 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 7: Right, Andy, let me introduce so one last topic that 755 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:01,239 and involved Trump directly. 756 00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 3: Uh. 757 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 7: Start with a news item a few days ago that 758 00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:09,400 a CIA operative was arrested for having leaked Israeli battle 759 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,760 plans overseas. There's been other examples of whether there's that 760 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,119 guy the State Department they suspended whose name escapes me 761 00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:21,760 right now, but evidence of Iranian penetration inside our government. 762 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,280 We know the Chinese spylight crazy at our universities and elsewhere. 763 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,960 I think we should bring back the House and Senate 764 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,320 committees on internal security that we abolished in the seventies 765 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,000 and our fit of guilt and in the post Watergate period. 766 00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 2: Uh. 767 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 3: And of course the left. 768 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 7: Will scream and the media will scream McCarthyism, and I'll 769 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,639 tell them no, no, Andy, McCarthyism. 770 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,039 Speaker 3: I like McCarthy. 771 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,679 Speaker 1: Anyway, if they're going to if they're going to scream, 772 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,920 let's just call them the House Committee on American Activities. 773 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:54,639 Speaker 3: Away, right, I agree, yes, right right? 774 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 7: Any what do you think, Andy, I think we got 775 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,880 to do something here, and I don't I don't trust 776 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,320 the standing committees or the CIA to investigate themselves. 777 00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:05,519 Speaker 5: See I think Steve that when you had Gallagher in 778 00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:09,599 the House and Barr at the Justice Department, you effectively 779 00:42:09,679 --> 00:42:13,079 had that without it being called that because remember, Barr 780 00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:16,719 had a China initiative. Actually I think it predated Barr. 781 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,400 I think it started with Sessions, but but Barr took 782 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,320 it on. You know, when Barr started his career in 783 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,039 the government, he was a CIA guy in China was 784 00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:30,719 his concentration. So that's one of those things that he 785 00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:34,599 is rivetted to. But I think between what Gallagher's committee 786 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:37,239 was doing, which was like the only committee on Capitol 787 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,840 Hill that was actually efficient and seemed to work in 788 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,800 the way it's supposed to work, we had something like that, 789 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,920 And I don't care so much how they label it 790 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,920 is that as that they do it, but I think 791 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,719 it needs to be done. I also think with the 792 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,159 respect of that CIA case, I'm really concerned. I mean, 793 00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:57,079 I'm sure they have the goods on this guy, that's 794 00:42:57,079 --> 00:43:02,360 why they charged him. I worry that that guy's escapegoat 795 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,599 in the sense that I think the Biden Harris administration 796 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,119 beginning with I think you're talking about Mali the envoy 797 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:17,559 and his protege to bat to Buy, who even though 798 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:21,159 she was involved in this Iran initiative, those scholars who 799 00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:27,119 wrote apologetic pieces for the Iranian regime, somehow she not 800 00:43:27,199 --> 00:43:29,519 only is in the government, but she has like the 801 00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:32,039 highest security clearance that you could have, and she was 802 00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:38,760 the chief of staff to the Undersecretariat the Defense Department 803 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,199 who handles special operations, which is counter terrorism. So to 804 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,679 have her in a job like that, I just think 805 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:51,159 it underscores that these guys, they're running rampant, you know, 806 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,320 these Iranian maybe calling the mass sets over states it, 807 00:43:55,360 --> 00:44:01,039 but sympathizers. They thread Obama and Biden's administration to the 808 00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:04,400 point that one of the co authors of Tibat to 809 00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:08,400 Buy in the things that she wrote on behalf of 810 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,960 the Iranian regime, was this guy Phil Gordon is lesson, 811 00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:18,880 but he was Kamala Harris's National Security Advisor, and it 812 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,440 was predicted that if she got in, he would have 813 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,599 a major position there. So I'm glad they got the 814 00:44:24,599 --> 00:44:26,760 CIA guy, if they got him, but I mean, he's 815 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,199 only the He's like the tip of the iceberg of 816 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,559 what we're dealing with. 817 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: It has to get it has to get better. It 818 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,719 really does, because I mean we've been seeing things like 819 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,000 Iranian penetration confirmed as this particular State Department employee has 820 00:44:39,039 --> 00:44:42,119 been giving details to the government and then the response 821 00:44:42,159 --> 00:44:45,039 seems to be, yeah, that's bad, but nothing we can 822 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:45,599 do about that. 823 00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:48,679 Speaker 3: There's plenty of we can. 824 00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:50,039 Speaker 1: Do about that, and I'm going to see it in 825 00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:52,360 the next couple of years. Any we know, you got 826 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,079 to go. You're looking I mean, you're looking good. You're 827 00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:57,440 looking spiffy, and I've been informed that that's because you're 828 00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,800 going on Fox soon. But to us know, you're this 829 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,400 is how you always look, with a good tie and 830 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,239 the good shirt and the good you clean up well, So. 831 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,039 Speaker 3: Have fun thoughts. 832 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,639 Speaker 5: I wish it, Andrew, I wish it was going to 833 00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:13,360 be fun. Apparently they're they're covering this awful Lake and 834 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,320 Riley case, which I just had to read up on 835 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,320 in order to know what the hell I was talking about. 836 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:20,559 It's like awful. 837 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,199 Speaker 1: Just tell them, Okay, well there's a there's a day writener. 838 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,920 May may it get better for you, and may you 839 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:27,559 have a fine weekend, and we'll talk to you again, and. 840 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,199 Speaker 5: Guys, thank you. 841 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,360 Speaker 1: Before we go, and we've got some time. I want 842 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,079 to do one thing here, and that. 843 00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 3: Is mentioned because you're wondering, Gosh. 844 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:43,159 Speaker 1: I love Ricochet, I love reading it, love reading all 845 00:45:43,199 --> 00:45:45,800 the comments, but it's only there was a way to 846 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,440 meet these people in person. Now, if you're expecting Rob 847 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,079 Long to appear all of a sudden and do a 848 00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:54,239 meet up announcement, no, he's probably in a in a 849 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,079 cell somewhere in a robe where it is nodded with 850 00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,840 a rough rope, doing what he's doing. So I will 851 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,400 do what Robbie has to do and tell you what 852 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,199 the meetups to come. 853 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:03,559 Speaker 3: Now. 854 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,039 Speaker 1: The thing is about Ricoget. It's not just people typing 855 00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:08,519 anonymously behind a keyboard. There are people who get together 856 00:46:08,599 --> 00:46:10,199 in real life, and if you would like to meet them, 857 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,360 for heaven's sakes, we'll just join ricoget and then put 858 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,599 up a Rickchet meet up in your town and people 859 00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:18,199 will flock to you now, those of you who have 860 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,840 social anxiety, of course, it sounds like an absolute nightmare 861 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,599 those of you who maybe of an extroverted sort and 862 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,440 wish in these cold months to get together and hoist 863 00:46:26,519 --> 00:46:30,320 a few and talk about things. Because that's the great 864 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,159 thing about Rickaget is how little when we get together 865 00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:36,239 in person we talk about politics, culture, society, all the 866 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:37,480 rest of it. The member feed come. 867 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 6: To the life. 868 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: But it's not boring people who have no life and 869 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:45,559 can do only things but talk about politics anyway. Dave Carter, 870 00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:47,760 our old friend, is hosting a meet up in Panama City. 871 00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:50,960 That's in Florida. Of course, Yes, there's an airport nearby. 872 00:46:51,119 --> 00:46:54,639 Then can you can get there from anywhere? December sixth 873 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,400 to the eighth, twenty twenty four. I assume when he 874 00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,360 says from the December sixth to the eighth, that there 875 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,679 are moments where you can step aside and you know, 876 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,199 use the restroom perhaps, or call home or something like that. 877 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,079 Otherwise it sounds like a forty eight hour convocation, which. 878 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 6: Could be fun. 879 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,079 Speaker 1: And Randy, our old friend, Randy's having a meetup in 880 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:17,159 Chook chattanoogu j Chattanooga Chattanooga, chatt and ugu uh, that's 881 00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:20,800 probably a Chattanooga somewhere else in the country in Tennessee, Chattanooga, Tennessee, 882 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,239 January nineteenth, twenty twenty five. So check Ricochet, check the 883 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,880 meet up pain, start your own meet people. It's always 884 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,119 fun or a great bunch. I wish there was one 885 00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:31,960 closer to me at a date that I could go to, 886 00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:36,280 But if there is, I'll be there now. Gentlemen, one 887 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,639 of the things that I love most about the administration 888 00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,840 that's going to unfold before us is the fact that 889 00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:48,519 what once was a meme of a sheba u looking 890 00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:50,920 quizzically at the camera now is the acronym for a 891 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,920 government agency that supposed our initiative that is going to 892 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,840 reduce waste, fraud, waste and all the rest of those things. 893 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,519 Speaker 3: Doge, You loved. 894 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,079 Speaker 1: It as a coin, You love it as a meme, 895 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,480 and now, well, are you going to love it as 896 00:48:04,519 --> 00:48:08,400 a as a enterprise? Do you think it will do anything? 897 00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,079 Or is this going to be more like Proxmiers Golden Fleece. 898 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,480 You know proxmid always come up with something, you know, 899 00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,679 like ridiculous amount of money we're spending on having shrimp 900 00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:21,000 run on treadmills underwater. 901 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:22,280 Speaker 6: There's hours. 902 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,679 Speaker 1: Somebody would come out later, you know, come six months 903 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,920 later and say, well, actually that study led to the 904 00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:30,639 creation of a vaccine that reduced death by right by 905 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,079 by spotted elephant fever by six hundred percent. You know, 906 00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,360 there's so many things that we can get rid of. 907 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 3: But you know, you figure, you cut the you cut. 908 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,079 Speaker 1: The spending for this, You're not doing anything but the 909 00:48:46,199 --> 00:48:51,400 organization that that that commissioned the spending in the first place. 910 00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:55,119 And that seems to be maybe what what musk at 911 00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:57,880 all are after? Or is this just going to be 912 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,760 another initiative at the end of which we are faced 913 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,519 with a government as big as it was before. 914 00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 6: I'm just pretty skeptical. 915 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 2: It's not that I have a problem with the program, 916 00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:15,199 which is a couple of smart guys looking through spending reports. 917 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 6: It's just that the issue. 918 00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:19,599 Speaker 2: Here is a total lack of desire on the part 919 00:49:19,639 --> 00:49:22,440 of the American people or Congress to do anything about 920 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,360 what's actually driving our deficits and therefore our death. Is 921 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,199 a very funny Australian TV commercial for I Think Castle 922 00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:36,159 Maine FORX beer from the eighties where this guy shows 923 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,800 up in the outback with a pickup truck and they 924 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,000 load one crate of Castle main FORX after another until 925 00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:48,760 they're comically stacked. And eventually the guy comes out of 926 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,239 the store and he says, you want to sherry for 927 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,760 the missus, And he puts up to sherry and he 928 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,079 puts the sherry on top these, you know, seven thousand beers, 929 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,559 and the pickup truck collapses and he says, I guess 930 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:06,159 it was the sherry that did it. And I love 931 00:50:06,199 --> 00:50:08,599 this as a kid, but this, to me is what 932 00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:11,000 we're doing here with the federal budget. I would love 933 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,800 to get rid of all of those stupid spending initiatives 934 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:20,960 that you hear about, but the problem is entitlements. And 935 00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:24,239 on top of that, it's big organizations that would take 936 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,039 political capital to abolish the Department of Education agricultural subsidies. 937 00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:34,920 If there were the will to use the power that 938 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,320 the Republicans have been given to make substantive changes to 939 00:50:41,679 --> 00:50:46,280 the federal budget, then we wouldn't need this doage organization. 940 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,280 Speaker 3: We might want to have it anyway, but we wouldn't. 941 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,559 Speaker 2: Need it as part of some effort to streamline and 942 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:55,880 fix our fiscal problem. We know where our fiscal problems. Lie, 943 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,960 I understand the political imperatives here. I understand that the 944 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,199 public is not interesting did in making a change here, 945 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,920 and that therefore it's somewhat futile for Republicans to lose 946 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,840 elections by promising to make changes the public doesn't want. 947 00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 6: But we know what the issue is. It's not like 948 00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:11,280 this is a secret. 949 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,679 Speaker 2: And the last thing I'll say before I shut up is, 950 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,199 I think I'm right in saying that, you know, ninety 951 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,079 percent of the waste that was identified in this initial 952 00:51:21,119 --> 00:51:21,760 report is. 953 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,719 Speaker 6: Interest on the debt. 954 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,039 Speaker 2: Now, that's fine to point out that we're paying huge 955 00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:27,400 amounts of interest on the debt, but you can't stop 956 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,800 paying that because your default. If you want to stop 957 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,639 interest on the debt being the big problem that it is, 958 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,760 you have to stop the spending that has caused the 959 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,360 borrowing that has caused the interest on the debt. So 960 00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:41,000 after a point, we're really just looking at things that 961 00:51:41,159 --> 00:51:44,360 are marginal instead of having an honest conversation about the 962 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,559 core issue. 963 00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:45,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 964 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,519 Speaker 7: So I share a lot of Charlie's cynicism about this, 965 00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:52,920 And yeah, although I do think that I think the 966 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:57,000 figure you might have reported this, Charlie is that over 967 00:51:57,039 --> 00:51:59,440 one hundred billion dollars a year now and fraudulent or 968 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:00,000 improper pay. 969 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,119 Speaker 3: See that starts to look like real money. 970 00:52:04,119 --> 00:52:06,280 Speaker 7: But how you get at that, I don't know if 971 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,599 it's enforcement or changing the rules, because that whole business 972 00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:11,440 is very opaque. My mind runs back to a previous 973 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,599 effort to do this in the eighties, and I'm sure 974 00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:16,079 you'll remember, James, it was the Grace Commission under Reagan, 975 00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:21,119 which identified three hundred billion dollars in inefficiencies and savings. 976 00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:22,840 And of course that was real money back in the 977 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,719 nineteen eighties, and almost none of that came about in 978 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,480 part because and here I guess maybe the best guide 979 00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:32,000 is the old Yes Minister series with bureaucracy will bamboozle 980 00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:34,760 you That the one famous episode of a hospital with 981 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,400 four hundred administrators and no doctors and no patients, right, 982 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,480 you know that was You know that show was written 983 00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:44,800 by real economists who understood public choice theory. But you know, 984 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,360 one of the things that Musk and this team will 985 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,480 find is that some of the things you think are 986 00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,800 waste that actually I agree is a trivial amount, as 987 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,480 Charlie says, but he went back in the eighties and 988 00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:58,199 some people who looked hard at the Grace Commission pointed out, 989 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,039 and actually this was a liberal man, there really weren't 990 00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:04,159 any six hundred dollars hammers at the Pentagon or two 991 00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:05,519 thousand dollars coffee pots. 992 00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:06,559 Speaker 3: That was a. 993 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,199 Speaker 7: Function of the peculiar accounting methods of the government. So 994 00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,840 vastly simplify this. You order a hammer from one contract 995 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,440 a defense contractor, and you order a jet plane from them, 996 00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:19,440 they'll a portion overhead and equal. 997 00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:20,360 Speaker 3: Amounts to both units. 998 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,239 Speaker 7: So you know, what's a trivial amount of overhead for 999 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,599 a fighter plane ends up being, you know, five hundred 1000 00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:29,480 and ninety dollars of overhead assigned to the cost of 1001 00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:31,960 a ten dollars hammer. So there aren't been any real 1002 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,400 savings there if you just change the accounting around. 1003 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,800 Speaker 1: Right before, they had to devise a particular kind of 1004 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,719 hammer for a particular kind of job, and that refuge 1005 00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,800 that you know, the R and D costs were built 1006 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,079 into that cod But on the other hand, so you 1007 00:53:44,119 --> 00:53:46,440 may not have many six thousand dollars hammers, but what 1008 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,760 we do have and everybody's familiar with, is a forty 1009 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,599 seven dollars aspirin. Because the government got into the business 1010 00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:55,360 of healthcare and all of a sudden and accountability was removed, 1011 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,239 so that we don't pay out of our own pocket, 1012 00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:58,880 but we pay to somebody who pays to somebody who 1013 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:00,840 pays to somebody depending on what the code is. Right, 1014 00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,639 that is something that we'd like to take a look 1015 00:54:03,679 --> 00:54:04,199 at too. 1016 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 3: But you're right. 1017 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,480 Speaker 1: When the Grace Commission came out, I remember we were 1018 00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:10,280 all talking about waste, fraud and abuse for years and 1019 00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:13,320 until the last two words became one German term to me, 1020 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,679 fraud and abuse waste proud abuse. So when I when 1021 00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,320 I hear it, I reach for my well, yeah, I'm 1022 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,920 I'll wait to see what they come up with. But 1023 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,320 Johnny's right, it's entitlements. And as somebody who owns agricultural land, 1024 00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:30,760 of course, I'm I don't believe that you should change 1025 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,960 the subsidies for that at all. And retirement age, I 1026 00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:37,079 you know, you'd better keep your hands off my social security. 1027 00:54:37,679 --> 00:54:40,079 But as somebody who cares much about the country, I 1028 00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:42,679 would love to see them do something about social security 1029 00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,000 that keeps it there for the people who are going 1030 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,199 to need it and phases it out for the people 1031 00:54:47,199 --> 00:54:49,840 who won't. And that may be some kind of privatization. 1032 00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:52,239 That may be some sort of four oh one k 1033 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,119 thing where the government does a little investive. 1034 00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:54,519 Speaker 3: I don't know. 1035 00:54:54,559 --> 00:54:57,679 Speaker 1: I'm open to anything, but right now, the idea of 1036 00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:00,639 twenty somethings thirty somethings don't think they're going to get 1037 00:55:00,639 --> 00:55:04,000 anything out of it, and to make them pay for 1038 00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:06,320 the people who are getting something out of it is 1039 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:11,760 a generational transfer that seems to be not right, not moral. 1040 00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,880 So we got to figure out a way about that, 1041 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,519 or it is going to consume us and the doges 1042 00:55:16,599 --> 00:55:19,440 are you know, will go the way of the nation 1043 00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:22,199 ones and that's them. Hey guys, let's get out of here, 1044 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,239 let's go have some lunch. Thank you for joining, Thank 1045 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:29,239 you for going to Apple, iTunes or music or whatever 1046 00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,079 they call it right now, or any place that you 1047 00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:33,639 get your podcasts with that matter, and giving us high rankings, 1048 00:55:34,119 --> 00:55:37,960 high votes, high positive comments. Because then people say, hey, 1049 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,320 what is this thing. I've heard about the Ricochet podcast 1050 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,440 for seven hundred and sixteen episodes, but this is the 1051 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,079 one that finally makes me go. Check could be join. 1052 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,920 It's cheap and you'll have access to the Center Civil Right, 1053 00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,719 the Civil Rights Center, the Center Civil right in Chattanooga 1054 00:55:53,039 --> 00:55:55,559 community that you've been looking for on the internet all 1055 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,639 of your days. Gentlemen, it's been a pleasure. Stephen Charlie. 1056 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,519 We'll see everybody in the comment, said Ricochet. For Point 1057 00:56:01,679 --> 00:56:02,679 Oh next. 1058 00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:08,880 Speaker 3: Week, Ricochet join the conversation.