WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:02.879 All right, so we have open for him if anybody 2 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:07.519 would like to bring questions or Q and a father, 3 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:09.279 Deacon and I and the other mods are here, So 4 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:13.519 is anybody in the chat, any challengers, any questions, any topics, 5 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:14.880 bring it forward. 6 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:15.400 We're here. 7 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.199 I even have my white boy white board right here, 8 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:21.960 got my white board. 9 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.120 Yeah. 10 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:26.679 I had a quick question someone mentioning your last stream 11 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.760 about God it being pure act in the incarnation, how that. 12 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.840 It's an issue, it's problematic. And you said that. 13 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:42.880 Something along the lines of how if he's always actualizing everything, 14 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:48.000 and he's actualizing one hypostace, he's wise and he actualizing 15 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:48.719 the other two? 16 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:49.759 Right? 17 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.359 So could a Roman Catholic counter that by saying that 18 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:58.439 he can't actualize the other two because it's logically impossible. 19 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:02.000 Now, the argument is not that he's actualizing other persons. 20 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.239 The argument is that a being that is pure act 21 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:09.640 has to have something other than himself or itself to actualize. 22 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:13.439 That's what in Aristotle the word means. So Aristotle believes 23 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:19.159 that the first cause is a first actualizer. He's pure energy, 24 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.000 pure action, so there's always something other than himself. Now, 25 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.200 the reason that we don't apply that argument necessarily you 26 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.439 could make an argument about generating of the sun, right, 27 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:31.400 because if God is pure act, then what is the 28 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.200 distinction between generating and spirating? There would be a real 29 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:37.480 distinction in the trinity, right. 30 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:39.840 But this is just to speak of. 31 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:45.599 God in essence, definitionally God via a substance as pure act. 32 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:50.120 And the problem is that in Aristotelian philosophy, pure act 33 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:55.599 means that he's eternally pure act. He's always pure act. 34 00:01:55.799 --> 00:02:00.519 To act means to actualize. He's not actualizing himself, so 35 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.920 Aristotle said, he's always actualizing the other, something other than himself. 36 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:07.640 So the argument is not about other persons. It could be, 37 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:11.879 but it's not about that. It's about creation. Aristotle believes 38 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:15.639 that there's an eternal prima materia prime matter, that the 39 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.240 first actualizer is eternally actualizing. 40 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:23.759 Does that make sense, yes, because if that's what he is, 41 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:28.639 by definition, he is gonna necessity of actualizing something. 42 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:29.479 From all eternity. 43 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:30.840 Correct. 44 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.599 Yeah, So there's never a time when he wasn't actualizing 45 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:37.280 creation and then he changed to become the actualizer of creation. 46 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.680 That would mean if that happened, that would mean he 47 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:44.400 has potential and in Roman cality theology, in terms of 48 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:49.800 especially termism, but generally speaking in Roman caality theology, God 49 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:53.520 has absolutely no potentia, no active or passive potential in 50 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:59.479 any sense at all period. That's why Basil says in 51 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:05.080 hexham On two that Ariostotl's argument is stupid because if 52 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.919 God is an eternal actualizer as a first principle, then 53 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:10.919 he must have a second principle that. 54 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:12.080 He always actualizes. 55 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:15.599 So there's a necessary relationship between the actualizer and what 56 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.479 he actualizes, between God and cretient creation that's an eternal creation. 57 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:22.479 This is not my argument, it is Basil's argument. 58 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:23.120 In hex summer On. 59 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.560 Two, he says Aristotle is stupid because he has a diad. 60 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:30.159 So that's why it's two persons is because the material 61 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:34.599 world that the first actualizer is eternal actualizing, is itself 62 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.960 another eternal principle. So Basil says, well, that's basically a 63 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.159 two headed God. 64 00:03:41.719 --> 00:03:42.479 Does that make sense? 65 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:44.120 Yeah, that makes sense. 66 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.960 But I thought that the idea of him being pure 67 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.439 act causes problems for the incarnation. 68 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.879 I thought someone it does, because how does one hypostasis 69 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:56.719 enter into a mode of being that the other two 70 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:57.080 do not? 71 00:03:58.439 --> 00:03:59.879 Yeah, and that's where I was going to ask could 72 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:03.439 counter that by saying that the other two can't enter 73 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:06.400 into a motive, be because it's logically impossible or something. 74 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.560 Why would it be logically impossible for the Father and 75 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.560 the Spirit to do it but not the son. I mean, 76 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.360 I don't understand how that's even a coherent argument. It 77 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:17.560 just sounds like that. That sounds like an ad hoc rescue. 78 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:23.680 The problem is with the doctrine of simplicity and then 79 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.480 with the doctrine of pure act. They're defining God in 80 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:33.399 essence as pure act. Same Aximus does not find define 81 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.000 God in his essence as pure act. He defines God 82 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:39.480 as pure act in contrast to creatures, but in essence 83 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:41.680 we do not know what he is. So they collapse 84 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:47.000 the two distinctions. They collapse economia into theology proper. 85 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:49.040 Do you understand? 86 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:50.759 Yes? 87 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:55.079 And yes, you could take the look the pure act 88 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:59.040 simplicity argument will apply to any level of distinctions in 89 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.199 God if you wanted to, right, So, in other words, 90 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.040 we could apply it to the distinction between generating aspirating. 91 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:08.839 Is that a real distinction? 92 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:09.519 Sure? 93 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:13.519 Okay, then is it something that's in the essence? How 94 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.199 is God pure act? If there's two different things going 95 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.720 on in God? 96 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:23.800 Right, and then their other doctrine of absolute device simplicity 97 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:27.000 probably doesn't even allow for distinction. 98 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:29.360 What do you mean there other doctrine? 99 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.560 Well, if God is absolutely simple, how can you have 100 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.120 distinctions with himself? 101 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:38.199 Right? Right? 102 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.439 So, in other words, modal collapse argument does point out 103 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:45.079 problems in any attempt to make distinctions in God that 104 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:51.360 are only virtual, nominal, or conceptual. Okay, the distinction between 105 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:54.839 generating inspirating is not virtual, it's not nominal. 106 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:55.480 It's not conceptual. 107 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.800 It is, but it's it's you can conceptually distinguish because 108 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:03.920 it really distinguished. This is the whole paper cat epinoia 109 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:08.040 that Bradshaw has. So can we make a conceptual distinction 110 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.560 between generating inspirating in our minds? 111 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:11.800 Yes? How can we do that? 112 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.839 Basil says, because it's a real distinction. What your mind 113 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:18.480 is predicating is predicating on the basis of what's really distinct. 114 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:23.000 Because there is a real distinction between generating inspirating, you 115 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.199 can really distinguish those things in your mind. And some 116 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:31.279 distinctions are purely conceptual. Right, The distinction between a bachelor 117 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:34.519 and unmarried man is a conceptual distinction. There's not a 118 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.680 real distinction and reality between those two things, right, but 119 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.439 in our mind we can distinguish them linguistically. But there 120 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.480 is a real distinction between the son and the spirit, 121 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:48.839 because there's a real distinction between generating and spirating. Okay, 122 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.920 So is that an action of the essence or an 123 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.959 action of the persons? Well, it's an action of the 124 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:55.560 person of the Father. That's why you have to begin 125 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.199 your trinitary theology not with the essence of God, but 126 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.560 with the person of the Father. And that's what the 127 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.399 Cappadocians do. So the Rummachotholic just simply don't accept constantinople 128 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:06.720 One and the Cappadocian teaching. And they think they do. 129 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:08.680 They can say all day long that they do, but 130 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:13.040 in fact they don't. I'm almost done with this whole 131 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:19.279 PhD thesis on that very topic, right, basil Cesareegravanessa in 132 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:22.000 the Transformation of Divine Simplicity. The whole book, the whole 133 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.399 PhD thesis is about the fact that the Cappadocian doctrine 134 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.639 of divine simplicity and distinctions in the trinity is different 135 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:33.600 from the Augustinian, Latin and Sealmian Thomistic West. Well, yeah, 136 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:35.800 I mean, why is this even controversial? 137 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:37.240 How many? 138 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.680 I mean, we had medieval councils called the Palamite councils 139 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.519 that already told us this one thousand years ago, so 140 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:44.439 we shouldn't. 141 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:47.959 Even have to debate this ears ago. Anyway. I'm sorry, 142 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:50.680 go ahead, Oh I know that was it? 143 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:51.079 Thank you? 144 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:54.079 All right? 145 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:54.439 Uh? 146 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:58.560 Anybody else in discord? Anybody else next up? 147 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.879 Is it cool if I ask Father Deacon a question 148 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:05.000 on this interpretation of scripture real quick? 149 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:06.040 Or is that not? 150 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:10.839 Okay? Father Deacon in I'm inquire, by the way, So 151 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:11.920 this is just a question. 152 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:18.120 In Mark nine through eleven, it says after the Christ 153 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:21.000 is baptized, it says a voice came down from heaven. 154 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:24.920 And I was just wondering if Jesus was the word. 155 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:28.240 I know that the Father was talking to him because 156 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:30.879 this has the spirit also descended upon him like a dove. 157 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:36.519 So if Christ is the word, how was the Father 158 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:37.399 talking to him? 159 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:38.440 If that makes sense? 160 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:41.159 So this is mark. 161 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.919 Mark one nine through eleven. It's right after the Christ 162 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.200 is baptized or when he's being baptized. 163 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:56.000 Well, plan, I actually say, as far as I understood it, 164 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:57.120 it was the. 165 00:08:59.080 --> 00:08:59.360 Father. 166 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:07.440 You actually they speaks just because price is the word. 167 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:11.720 I don't think that it's God the Father from speaking, 168 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:13.320 so it's Mark. 169 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.039 One nine through eleven. 170 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.279 That was just kind of my question was the So 171 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:22.120 the Father can speak, it's not only Christ who can 172 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:32.440 speak from the heavens. 173 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:31.480 Divine actions, so it will be from the Father through 174 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:34.039 the Son in the Spirit, and that's that's also maybe 175 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.279 why all of us are present, right. 176 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:42.159 So one thing that is important to remember is that 177 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:47.919 not every reference to an action is identical to a hypostasis. 178 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.480 So sometimes the scriptures speak of different actions or that 179 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:56.240 will refer to different persons of the Trinity under different 180 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:59.559 energies or actions or attributes. For example, in Ezekiel, we 181 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:03.480 saw the Son being referred to as the glory of God. Now, 182 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.080 the person of the Son is not identical to the 183 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.559 glory of God, because the glory of God is something 184 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.720 shared between Father, Son, and Spirit. But the Son has 185 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:15.000 a unique way or role or mode that he manifests 186 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.120 the glory of God. And this is the doctrine of 187 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:22.960 energetic manifestation or energetic procession. So every energy of God 188 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:28.320 is common to all three persons. However, the persons have 189 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.440 a unique mode or tropos by which they manifest that energy. So, 190 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.840 for example, in creating, creating of the world is a 191 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:42.799 unique trinitarian action. However, each person in the trinity has 192 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:46.840 a unique role in actualizing that action. So the Father 193 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.879 is the origin of creation, the Son is the archae 194 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.399 or principle through which creation comes to be, and the 195 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.080 Spirit is the perfector the mover. 196 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.240 Of the created order. 197 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:04.279 And like we have this word perry caesis. 198 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.159 Literally just it's like a inner dance, but it's as 199 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:11.440 the sharing. 200 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:18.080 Of these actions of properties within the trinity. 201 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.360 Okay, so they all have the same will, they just 202 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:23.679 have different modes of enacting their will. 203 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.879 Correct, Okay, thanks guys. 204 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:31.559 So just like in redemption, right, redemption is a trinitarian 205 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.639 work or action, but the persons have unique roles in 206 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:39.440 the process or action of redeemings. So, for example, the 207 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.600 father's role is not to become incarnate. The Father's role 208 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:44.879 is to send the son. 209 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:46.200 Right. 210 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.919 Jesus always refers to this, especially in the Gospel John Right, 211 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.759 the Father sent me blah blah blah. The son's role 212 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.159 is to take on human nature right to become incarnate. 213 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.799 And then the spirit's role is to save, sanctify deify, 214 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:02.320 et cetera. 215 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:05.879 Okay, that makes perfect sense, thank you. 216 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:06.399 Yeah. 217 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:10.639 So remember that role or mode is very very important 218 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:12.720 both to triadology and Christology. 219 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:14.320 That's not modalism. 220 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:19.600 Modalism is a triadological heresy that unite or that identifies 221 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:24.320 all the persons. But tropos or mode is crucial to 222 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:29.000 trinitarian and crystological formulations because all mode is is talking 223 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:32.399 about how a thing is. So remember that person answers 224 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.840 the question of who, Nature answers the question of what, 225 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:38.639 and mode answers the question of how a thing is. 226 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:40.279 So the mode of. 227 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:45.639 The trinity is different in theology proper versus economia. This 228 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.120 is why we don't we don't read economia back into 229 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:49.960 Trinitarian theology proper. 230 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.399 And all the modes just go back to right. 231 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.519 It was created by the Father through the Son, or 232 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.279 I forget the saying I'm new to the whole right. 233 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:04.000 So this comes from Saint Basil. Basil's dictum is from 234 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.759 the Father, through the Son and in the Spirit. And 235 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.240 that's a liturgical refrain that gets adopted and becomes kind 236 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:14.000 of the norm for Trinitarian formulations all the way up 237 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.759 into Saint Gregory Palomas in the Middle Ages, so basically 238 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:23.600 nothing in Trinitarian theology. After the Second Ecumenical Council, everything's 239 00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:24.440 pretty much settled. 240 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:25.000 For the East. 241 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:28.799 There's a little bit of debate in early Byzantium about 242 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:33.120 Trinitarian formulations about the offering of the Sun in the 243 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:36.320 liturgy thy know and of thy own. There's actually an 244 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:40.200 early Businessine debate about that what that means. But aside 245 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.399 from that up into the Trinitarian theology doesn't get debated 246 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.559 again or stated again until the Palamite Synods and the 247 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:54.000 Palomite Synods clarify further post constantinople Ie what the meaning 248 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.600 of the plane of hyposthetic origins is distinct from the 249 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:03.720 plane of energetic procession, distinct from the plane of economia. 250 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.879 So crucial to understanding Orthodox Trinitarian theology is these three 251 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:13.360 planes PLA n E. Of Trinitarian existence or reality. This 252 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.399 is from Saint Gregor Palmos. The first plane is where 253 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.000 we begin our Trinitarian theology. Hypostatic origin, the person of 254 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.200 the Father as the sole cause, and the person of 255 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.080 the Father is the sole cause of the generating of 256 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.879 the Sun and the inspirating of the spirit. That's the 257 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.879 only way that we consistently through then a relation of 258 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:38.240 origins right, and relation to persons distinguish the trinitarian the 259 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:42.080 hypostaces of the Trinity. The second plane of Trinitarian theology, 260 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.519 which is not really present in Roman Cauviity theology, is 261 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:49.360 energetic manifestation. We have a crucial doctrine of the energies 262 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.320 that is necessary one hundred percent to our trinitarian theology. 263 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.200 This is one of the reasons why the Tomos and 264 00:14:56.200 --> 00:15:00.159 the Palmite Synods of the Middle Ages reject philioque is 265 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.960 because we do not collapse the things that we're saying 266 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:08.039 about energetic manifestation into hyposthetic origin. And the Roman Catholics 267 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.320 do that, and that's why they believe in philli oqui. 268 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.159 They don't have this level of distinction that we possess 269 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:19.720 where we distinguish the eternal energetic procession or manifestation of 270 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.200 the actions of God or the Holy Spirit from the 271 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:25.919 Father through the Son in the spirit. Right, that's distinct 272 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:31.240 from hyposthetic origin, and it's distinct. It's related to economic procession, 273 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.080 but it's distinct from the economia. Then we have economic procession. 274 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:38.320 A third level right of the role of the Sun 275 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.159 in creation and the role of the Holy Spirit in 276 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:45.360 creation and economia, trinity in time and space and history 277 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:45.840 and redemption. 278 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.519 You can't read that back into. 279 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:55.200 Trinity proper, meaning the first two layers, the first two planes. 280 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.879 Palamas uses the phrase planes of existence in the trinity. 281 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.840 It's not saying that there's different trinities. It's just making 282 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:04.120 distinctions in the trinity. 283 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:08.399 But it's a super stupid augment that economia needs to 284 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:14.399 perfectly reflect theology, because otherwise it wouldn't be no economy 285 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:17.240 and theology and inter thing. You said, like, it's actually 286 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.120 straight from here and there. So that's from the second century. 287 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.240 Yeah, a good point. 288 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:23.159 That was the idea of the. 289 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.679 Spirit, you know, being perfected and stuff. This is this 290 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:26.519 is very early. 291 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:29.799 Yeah, I should add it. I wouldn't want to give 292 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.639 the impression that Basil invented it. Basil just made it 293 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:33.879 basically part of the liturgy. 294 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:39.840 So so, and then the philioquay just undercuts all three 295 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.720 planes that power must present it. 296 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:44.159 That's why we know that the philioquay. 297 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:47.720 Is well, it doesn't undercut all of the three planes, 298 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.559 because most Roman Catholics at least make a distinction between 299 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.360 theology proper and economia. But they don't understand or typically 300 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.919 see why we make a distinction between hyposthetic origin and 301 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.639 energetic manifest So they will say, look, Philly oak Way 302 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.000 when when Basil or when John Damascus when they talk 303 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:09.920 or Athanacious when they talk about the manifestation of the 304 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.480 spirit through the sun, that's no different than Philly Okuay, 305 00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.000 it all means the same thing. No, it doesn't, because 306 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.680 Roman Catholic theology does not have a clear energies doctrine. 307 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:19.480 We do. 308 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.680 You can see this in Athanacious. This is why I 309 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.759 tell people ad nauseum to read the Fluorofsky paper on 310 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:31.319 Athenacious and Creation, because Fluorofsky shows that Athanasius teaches the 311 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.960 us and synergistinction. And one way he does that is 312 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:38.960 to distinguish between things that God does in the intratrinitarian 313 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:43.440 life right, like generating a son or manifesting his glory, 314 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.799 and those are distinct from the actions that relate to 315 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:52.599 the created order, like providence or creating right. God is 316 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.880 not eternally provident. He's eternally provident in the sense of 317 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.440 having the potentiality or the power, but he's not internally 318 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:02.920 actualizing providence. This is again we go back to the 319 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:06.240 motial collapse problem. Right, if God is pure act, then 320 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.160 it is he eternally purely actualizing providence. Oh okay, well 321 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:13.759 then there's an eternal creation over which is provident. But 322 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.559 no Roman Catholk actually professes that, right, so again it's 323 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.720 not it's a little more nuanced than then. They're collapsing 324 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.680 all of the three planes of existence in the trendy 325 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.720 into one. But they're confusing the first and second plane, 326 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:28.559 and they don't see why there's a problem or why 327 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.319 you need an energy's doctrine. And they simply depart from 328 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:35.000 the first seven councils because the seven councils hinge multiple 329 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:39.720 arguments on the essenceenter distinction. So their theology, their trinitarian theology, 330 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:40.920 is all jacked up. 331 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:42.160 That's the point. 332 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:47.119 Perfect, Thank you so much man. Yes, sir, we do 333 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:48.839 have a Muslim who said they asked to go so whon. 334 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:50.880 He had two quick questions he wanted to ask if 335 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:51.599 we have time for that. 336 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:53.559 Okay, we'll do the Muslim and then we'll do a 337 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.559 reform stoic who's ready here to expose this all a 338 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:57.079 s KGB. 339 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:58.640 So go ahead, and mister. 340 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:03.880 Muslim, that's fight Douglas, a Muslim named President Douglas. 341 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:05.920 My question is, real quick, just can you come to 342 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.359 the conclusion that God, a God exists without using the Bible. 343 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:10.640 That's one of my questions. 344 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.880 In one sense, we would say that there is an 345 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:20.680 inner intuitive sense that all men have, according to Romans one, 346 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:23.519 in their heart of hearts or their news, that there 347 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.440 is a God and that we have offended against him 348 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:28.720 and that we're guilty because we have the law of 349 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:31.240 God on our heart. So that's what I think Paul 350 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.599 is saying in Romans one. But if you mean through 351 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.519 rational deduction of looking at the natural world, do we 352 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:42.400 do this natural theology exercise to getting back to a 353 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.079 first cause? Some people might do that, but whether they 354 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.039 can give an account for that is a different question, 355 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:49.039 and I don't think they can. 356 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.039 Okay, thank you. 357 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.720 My second question is can you gain salvation without full 358 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:58.799 knowledge of the Trinity in this day and age? 359 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.839 Well, we don't believe that. Quote. 360 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.960 Full knowledge of the Trinity is a purely rational exercise, 361 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.640 So it's not like you've got to go get a 362 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:11.279 thhd to be saved. Because you know, we believe that 363 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.440 there's infants who are going to be saved, right, And 364 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.200 this is partly why we baptize infants, and we don't 365 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:20.359 think that everybody who is in the church has to attain, 366 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.119 you know, a high level of intellectual capacity to be saved. 367 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:26.680 I mean, you can have slow boys that get saved. 368 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:28.880 I'm sure there will be plenty of slow boys who 369 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.480 are saved and plenty of theologians who are damned. So 370 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.680 there is, at least from God's perspective, I mean, and 371 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.759 God knows this, you know, some degree of knowledge that 372 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:42.359 is applicable to to whom much is given much is required, 373 00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:44.200 is what the way I would put it. So when 374 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.400 Jesus has asked this question of the Gospels, he kind 375 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.039 of says, to the degree that you have been gifted, 376 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.240 that is the degree to which you will have. You know, 377 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:55.160 you will be judged on the basis of that requirement. 378 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:55.960 Does that make sense? 379 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.000 Yeah? 380 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.519 Okay, the mike, here we go. 381 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:05.400 My MIC's broken. 382 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:10.160 Our discord has the amazing power to completely obliterate every microphone. 383 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.839 Have you noticed that literally nobody's microphone works in our 384 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:15.799 discord And it's purely a touch. 385 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:22.279 Uh oh, here you're here, let's gold. 386 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.160 Let's get it. Jay, I'm a big fan. 387 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.880 By the way, first of all, oh yeah, I bet 388 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.799 you are sure. 389 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.519 And second of all, I never said anything about KGB. 390 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.720 I just said CIA bro. Yeah, that was You're trying 391 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:35.440 to group me in with other people. I'm a I'm 392 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:36.160 a lone wolf. 393 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.960 That was my joke. 394 00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:42.359 You ever heard of a tripid corp Lance Cantrell? I 395 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:43.640 exposed them on my channel. 396 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:44.240 Man, he was. 397 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.160 Dressed up like a Maleman in my neighborhood. 398 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:46.880 Isn't that nuts? 399 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.480 Right? Are you a troll? Are you? Are you a troll? 400 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:51.759 Are you here to debate. 401 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:53.200