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Speaker 1: In common cock Dick.

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Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. This is David

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Patrick Carey with Church of the Eternal Logos, and I

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am joined by Jay Dyer today to finish our Part

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two of Deconstructing My Christianity. We did part one over

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on his channel. It was about two weeks ago where

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we really sort of deconstructed deconstructionism and talked really philosophically

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about why it's a problem and how it has its

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own paradomatic shortcomings. And today's going to be addressing the

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entire phenomenon of deconstructing My Christianity, which I was not

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aware until Ac really pointed this out, and Jay has

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been aware of it and seeing it online of all

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these people deconstructing their faith and bringing up really low tier,

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kind of old arguments that they think are dismissing the

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messianic status of Christ, the Holy Trinity, and stuff like that.

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So we're going to kind of be going through some

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of their really their stronger arguments, So we're going to

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kind of steal man them at the beginning, and then

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we're going to get into and watch a few tiktoks

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and some of these major figures online and have a

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few laughs. So that's kind of the plan for today. So, Jay,

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do you have anything you want to say before we

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start getting into the topic and discussing the points by points.

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the difficulties in this domain is that

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when it comes to something like I said, the doctrine

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of the Trinity, or you know, the deed of Christ

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and the New or Old Testament, you know, the relationship

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of Yahweh to his embodiment, as the scholars speak, like,

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the difficulty is that you don't settle these issues by

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this verse over here or that verse over here. Right,

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there's so many verses throughout the text that it's really

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difficult to do justice to the topic if you don't

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know or if you don't look at all the texts

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that cover, for example, say the presence of the Holy

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Spirit in the Old Testament. Right. So I've got a

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list of I don't know, maybe I don't know how

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many references as it is, maybe thirty, and that doesn't

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necessarily mean that it's all of them, but just the

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ones that I've got listed here, say thirty references just

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to the person and role of the Holy Spirit in

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the Old Testament. Right, So We're obviously not gonna have

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some time to go through all of those, but as

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an example of you know, if you were going to

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demonstrate the trinity or the due to Christ or his

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relationship to God's people throughout the Old Testament, you would

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need to go through all the texts. But what happens

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in a lot of the domain I guess what we

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call higher critical scholarship is like it gets really narrow

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and focused on what does the Hebrews say in Isaiah

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seven and does that exclude the possibility of, you know,

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the virgin birth because it's only talking about Isaiah and

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his situation going on his day when immediately, as you

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would see in the Isaiah seven passage, well, that's gonna

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how you interpret this is going to be dependent on

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whether or not Jesus is the Messiah, right. In other words,

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you're not going to see a double sense to that

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to where well, there is something going on in Isaiah's

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day and a double fulfillment, a foreshadowing up a future

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fulfillment in the day of the Messiah when the Missy comes.

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So there's really no way to like go to this

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or that verse to solve any of these issues. As

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all I'm trying to say is that they're holistic, so

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you have to really be familiar with the entirety of

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the Bible, which most people aren't. And the dangerous part

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of like the academic unbelief is that they go to

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sections of the text with the presupposition of unbelief. So

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for them, this is not an inspired text. It's a

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human creation of a bunch of cobble together stories from

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various different traditions. This is known as the documentary hypothesis

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JEPD these different schools. It was invented by the character

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at Julius Belhausen. But one thing I would know before

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we get into all this is that Julius Wellhausen had

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an admitted agenda according to himself, that he wanted to

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destroy all ideas of ritualism and judaic imagery and symbology

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from the religion, which he thought could be purified as

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this later generation of liberal Lutheran. So there's a liberal

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anti quote ceremony position that Julius Wellhausen wanted to do,

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wanted to prove and demonstrate. So he's an activist, and

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his activism was against the idea that God would ever

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institute rituals and ceremonies, and he's again in the tradition

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of who had already instituted this revolution, Luther, Luther wants

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to scale down. Now, Luther wasn't as extreme as Bellhausen,

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but Bellhausen again as an activist. So you have to

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understand that all the academia that pretends to be in

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purports to be neutral and says that they don't have

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an agenda is just not true. And that's what you

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and I saw the last time when we did this

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deconstruction analysis. We pointed out that wait a minute, they

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don't actually seem very neutral. They actually seem anti theistic,

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and they seem to have an agenda to deconstruct the text,

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supposedly because they're neutral, but no, they actually have a

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presupposition that their deconstructionism is neutral, right, even though they're

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saying that everybody has an agenda, right constructionists. So again,

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the textual higher critics are not neutral, even though they

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claim that textual higher criticism is a neutral science. So

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they just have the presuppositions of all the Enlightenment people

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for the most part of neutrality that nothing is theory

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laden that they can just approach it with a pure

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objective science to prove or disprove what parts of the

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Bible are authentic. We have a totally different presupposition as

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believers and as members of the church Orthodox Church, because

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we approach the text with the presupposition that it is inspired,

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that is coherent, it's cohesive, and there's a totality message

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that is not cobbled together pieces of gibberish. So we

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have totally different presuppositions. And you're going to notice that

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they will read all of these tacts with the assumption

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of discontinuity, whereas we read the text with the assumption

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of continuity. But how do we know which one's right right?

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Textual science cannot tell you that well.

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Speaker 2: And to your point about how they quote mind scripture

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and try to what they perceive to be is bringing

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out objective points which undermine the Christian faith. We highlighted

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in the first dream the irony of that because constructionism

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itself is a relativistic worldview and is totally centered on

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the subjective reader. That it does away with the authoritative

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attenth of the person behind any written text, let alone scripture,

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but even a book you read Shakespeare or C. S. Lewis.

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Deconstructionism is not interested in what the intentions of the

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author is. It's interested in how the reader, from the

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subjective standpoint can deconstruct that and find meaning from themselves.

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And so it's, as we highlighted before, it is about well,

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it fails to address historical context, which is, we have

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believers when we're reading scripture. We're reading this as a

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as a coherent, cohesive system of revelation that is unfolding

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throughout space and time according to the people that the

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message is being revealed to and how they could understand it.

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And so not that many the TikTokers, I mean, maybe

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Dan McClellan, he's he's the one that makes sure to

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tell you in every single video that he's a scholar

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of the Bible. But outside of him, many of these

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people really don't even have an academic training, and they

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present the term deconstruction as some type of fancy, magical

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word that's that somehow undermines any sort of literal interpretation

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or traditional in Christianity. So from the onset deconstructionism, it's

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so funny because if you're constantly utilizing that, at least

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in the philosophical academic sense. It's not interested in objective truth.

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It's not interested in actually providing objective facts to come

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to a more coherent understanding of truth. It's just about

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subjective deconstruction. And as we highlighted deconstructionism, one of the

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big academic critiques is that it's not constructive. Deconstructionism is

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really just about destroying anything that is analyzing and taking

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a part into pieces and then just kind of leaving

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it there and walking away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking forward, of course to

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the Theophanes discussion, because that's, you know, an area that

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I've really focused on a whole lot in the last

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four years, particularly because obviously the Muslim debates it didn't

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actually start with that. I got deeper and deeper into

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the Theophanes topic because in the last i would say

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eight years, particularly getting back into Orthodoxy, it really got

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me thinking about the continuity between the Old Testaments. So

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I would just say that in the last maybe even

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ten years, continuity between the Old and Testament old New

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Testament has been a real focus of mine, just as

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a kind of a side hobby, and I would say

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in the last eight years, I've read through the Old

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Testament multiple times. So and I do that on purpose

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because I really want to know it really well. Originally

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because I was debating Arians several years ago and that's

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kind of what prompted this, and then that shifted into

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the Muslim debates, and so maybe in the future will

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shift into more debates with Jews, because it's going to

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be more and more relevant, I think, to interacting with

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the Jewish ideas of the rabbinic ideas of denying why

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you know, Christ fulfills the prophecies. So I'm just pointing

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out again that this is an area that has really

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been a focus of mine, maybe even for the last decade. So,

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and I don't claim to be an expert, but we

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did just do, for example, a three hour or more

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talk for my members throughout just the Torah. So we

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went through every theoph Any or Trinity reference in the Torah.

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And that's a I mean there's a there was enough

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that it took three hours. Wow. So you know we're

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not talking about something that's like I remember when I

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was Protestant, or maybe even when I was getting into Atholicism,

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I remember thinking, Jesus in the Old Testament. Yeah, there

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might be a few of those, right, So there's actually

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like tons of references to Yahweh, his angel, messenger and

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the Spirit, and so obviously we're not going to go

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through all those. But I noticed that some of the

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critiques that that Ac mentioned from these these people is like,

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what McClellan has, I guess this is an argument or

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an article of his something about you know, how do

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we account for this messenger of yahween the Old Testament?

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And it's like, oh, well, we first really kind of

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see this in Exodus. No, you actually first see this

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very clearly in Genesis in fact, and this is going

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to get into issues that go beyond text, like if

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you have the septuagent, for example, in Genesis three, the

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septuagent reads in terms of the English translation, then they

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heard the voice of the Lord walking. How is the

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logos walking if he's not already in some way if

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they alphantic manifestation. So and presumably yes, it says they

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heard it. But for Adam to be made in the

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image of God, we would say as Orthodox. If you

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read Poniotis Nellys's book Viification in Christ, the whole first

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chapter is about how Adam has made the image of Christ. Right,

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So that would mean Adam saw Christ and knew him

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directly in the garden. It's and in so many people's

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minds when you don't have the christ stoological presuppositions of

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Genesis or understand the trend of the Old Testament, you

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would read these passages and think, and I thought this

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way as a Protestant. You think, oh, Adam is made

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in the image of like this unitarian generic unitarian God. No,

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it's Christ. And Paul even says that one Corintheus fifteen,

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he says that if Jesus is the second Adam, it's

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because Adam was made in the image of Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Right anyway, So well, let's start getting into some of

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these One thing I've forgotten.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's I don't know who wrote this

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article that Ac sent, but it's the one about Yahwey's

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divine images and it's talking about Oh well, let's see

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what are the first passages were we begin to see

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this Exodus three with the messenger of Yahweh. Well, I

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mean in Genesis sixteen, Hagar says I saw God face

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to face and she named the place after seeing God

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face to face. So I mean they're already seeing God

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face to face very early in Gesis.

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Speaker 2: Which undermines the general criticism, like of McClellan and others,

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is that the Trinity is a Hellenic invention. Exactly, well,

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how could it be a hellenic invention? If we're reading

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Torah and we're reading Old Testament books and we're clearly

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seeing multiplicity of persons of the Godhead. It's not some invention.

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Speaker 3: And not only that, as as I'm sure you're aware,

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like modern Jewish scholarship is already basically admitting, oh no, actually,

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there is multiplicity in Jahweh throughout the Old Testa. Right,

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So you've got Boyarn, You've got Benjamin Summer Siegel, You've

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got these Jewish scholars who don't believe in Christianity, but

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they're admitting that clearly the Old Testament is not this

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Unitarian idea. And some are even admits that the strict

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Unitarian reading as mandated for Judaism is really late. That's

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not until my Mima nineties.

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Speaker 2: And then this was the book that you were referencing earlier,

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the Deification in Christ. Fantastic book, and jay I reached

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out to him he actually recommended this, and uh, really

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really great, great.

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Speaker 3: So that first chapter points out that like there's already

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a Christophane in Genesis when when Adam is made in

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the image of image of God, well, who, well, it's

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the same guy that's walking around the voice of the

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Lord walking in Genesis three eight, right voice voice being

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the logos.

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Speaker 2: The logos as ac highlighted, is a lot of the argumentation,

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and it seems like Muslims are adopting this comes out

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of Rabbinic interpretation of the Messiah. And so I've written

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down seven points at least that, and there's probably more,

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but these are set the main seven that I've kind

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of found in preparation for the video that Rabbinic Judaism

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addresses as to nullify Christ being the Messiah. And so

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the first one has to do with the restoration of

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the Divinic kingdom. The Rabbinic criticism claims that Jesus did

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not restore the Jewish sovereignty or re establish the Kingdom

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of David, as Israel remained under Roman rule and later

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faced destruction. Obviously, from the Orthodox perspective, the Eastern Orthodox

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Church teaches that Jesus did fulfill the promise of the

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restoration of divin and keingnom. It's just it's not temporal.

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It's not you know, the state of Israel. It's not

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a military political power. It's the Church. It's it transcends

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space and time.

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Speaker 3: Right, And you'll notice the easy response to this, which

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is Psalm One, which is cited many many times in

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the New Testament. In fact, Jesus himself he incites it

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against the Pharisees to say that how could this be

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just about David? Right, So it says the Lord said

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to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I

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make your enemies your footstool. The Lord shall send the

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rod of your strength out of Zion rule in the

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midst of your enemies. And then it goes on to say,

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you are a priest forever according to the order of Malkizadek.

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So the same subject is said to be the Thevidic

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ruler there right is also a priest forever, recurding the

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order Melkizada. David isn't a priest, So who fulfills this

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promise that's being said to this subject? Here it's being

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said historically to David. But David is a type, and

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this psalm is a type fulfilled in the eternal priest

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king who fulfills this by ascending and sitting at the

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right hand of the Father right and so Jesus himself

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in the Gospels uses Psalm one ten as a proof

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to say that this there's no way that this can

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be fulfilled in a historic earthly king, because a king

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in the tradition of Israel is not a priest. And

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yet this is said to be a person who's also

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an eternal priest according to the order of Melchizada. Right.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I wrote down John eighteen thirty six where

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Christ clearly references that his kingdom is not of this world.

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And obviously, from a Rabbinic position, they're not going to

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read the Gospel of John or give any sort of

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an authoritative meaning to that in regards to their hermenudy.

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Speaker 3: It's ironic, yeah, because because as you're going to point out,

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many of the objections, even from McLellan is and others,

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is things like, well, it's said that this is eternal,

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the law is eternal. Well, now wait a minute, because

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we're arguing that the kingdom is eternal and the spiritual

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meaning of the law is fulfilled and eternally kept in

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this eternal spiritual kingdom. So we're admitting the eternal principle.

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But they're turning around and saying, oh, wait a minute,

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it can't be an eternal thing. It has to be

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a historical, actual Davidic king like David, right, with an

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earthly kingdom. But wait a minute, I thought that you're

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arguing that it can't be this eternal spiritual thing. How

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else is the I mean, the law can't eternally be

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kept on earth? Right, You see what I'm saying Now,

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I see what's When they need it to be spiritual

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for them, it's spiritual. But when they need it to

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be literal and an earthly thing for them, it's literal

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and earthly. When our position is the one that is

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both historical and eternal and spiritual and consistent. Right.

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Speaker 2: The second point that I have in regards to the

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Rabbinic criticism of Christ being the Messiah is their claim

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that of the rebuilding of the Third Temple. And so

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the Rabbinic criticism is Jesus did not rebuild the Temple

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in Jerusalem. Instead, the temple was destroyed by the Romans

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and sevenycee prophesied by both Christ and Daniel. But Orthodoxy

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obviously interprets the prosphy of rebuilding the temple as again

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the Church. This is going to be a main theme

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here when we look at these ribbinic criticisms and why

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it's probably going more difficult for this deconstructing my Christianity

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for Protestants to respond to it, because when you look

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at the comments and you look at this whole malu

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over on social media, it's mostly Protestantism is the thing

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that's being deconstructed, and it's protestansm Protestants responding to these people.

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And so you know, Orthodoxy teaches that the third Temple

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is the Church. Jesus refers to his own body exactly

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true temple, and through his death and resurrection he established

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a new living temple which is not made with human hands.

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The spiritual temple is the Church. And so we can

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look at first Peter two four through five. Thus the

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physical rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple is seen as unnecessary

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at this point Christ has already fulfilled it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the physical temple is a type of the spiritual

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reality that he brings through his death, resurrection and the

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sitning of the Holy Spirit. In fact, if you read

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Peter Sermon in Acts too. He actually explains all this

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as well. Right. He explains that David says, concerning Jesus

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and not concerning himself, that he would not be left

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in hades, but that he would be raised. And he

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cites on fifteen eight through eleven. He says, like I

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pointed out, citing Psalm one, ten, Lord said to my Lord,

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sit in my right hand until I make your enemies

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your footstell Peter says, David does not fulfill this, he

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did not ascend into the heavens. But Christ does fulfill this.

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He also cites Joel and the prophecy that when you

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see the Holy Spirit come down upon the Gentiles as

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well as the Jews, and that the Holy Spirit is

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given also to the Gentiles, that would be a sign

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upon all flesh. That's what Joel prophesies for Pentecost. That's

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a sign that the Messiah has come and he sent

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his spirit.

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Speaker 2: By the way.

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Speaker 3: That's always spirit in the Old Testament too. By the way,

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because Joel is predicting the presence of the life of

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the Holy Spirit to be poured out upon all flesh,

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that there will be prophecies, visions, and so forth. I

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will pour out my spirit on those days, and your

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sons and your daughters will prophesy. That's the Old Testament

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talking about the person of the Holy Spirit, which is

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fulfilled according to Acts two, according to Peter at the

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very event of Pentecost and Acts two. So the point

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is that those are all supposed to be the signs

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that those old some events are being fulfilled. And the

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very logic of the text themselves from the Old Testament

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tells you that it can't be David, that the promise

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is made to that David's sons and David himself would

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rise up and reign in heaven. It has to be

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one of David's descendants who sits on the throne right.

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Speaker 2: So number three, the third point that I wrote down

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regards to these rabbinic criticisms is the in gathering of

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the exiles. So the rabbinic criticism, and again this is

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just being adopted by many of these deconstructing my Christianity people,

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is that Jesus or Jesus did not gather the Jewish

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exiles back to Israel. Instead, the Jewish diaspora continued and

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expanded after his time. However, from again an Orthodox perspective,

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the in gathering of the exiles is understood as again

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the Orthodox Church, the gathering of all nations in the

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New Israel, which is sure.

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Speaker 3: That very comment is their statement is answered in Acts fifteen.

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So when the Jerusalem Council meets and they're discussing the

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first of all, the restoration that you're talking about is

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what Acts two is talking about. So in many of

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the Old Testament texts are fulfilled in terms of this

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rebuilding and bringing back together of God's people to himself.

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Pentecost is a fulfillment of that. And then when they

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have the Jerusalem Council, in part it says, men and brethren,

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listen to me. Simon has declared how God visited the

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Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name.

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And with this the prophets agree, for it is written

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after this, I will return, and I will rebuild the

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Tabernacle of David, which fell down. I will rebuild its ruins,

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and I will set it up so that the rest

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of mankind can seek the Lord, and the gentiles who

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are called by my name will trust in me, etc.

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So they're interpreting the Tabernacle of David being restored in

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that passage of Ezekiel and in Isaiah sixteen, they're all

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similar language there the tabernacle, David is the church. And

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how do we know that? Because you get this. There's

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about I have a list of this too. There's about

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I'm going to say, one hundred one hundred at least passages,

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maybe maybe eighty seventy eighty specifically predicting that when the

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Messiah comes, the Gentiles will begin to convert and believe

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in the in the God of Israel. Right, So, hello, like,

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when did this happen? Jesus comes, massive gentile nations to convert,

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begin to believe in yeahwah. So it's obvious that that's

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the fulfillment of it. And I would add too that

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there's specific prophecies, because I know the rabbinic thing that

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they're well, well, but that can't be. That can't be gentiles.

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It has to be you know, in Israel or whatever.

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It has to be only for the Jews. No, no, no,

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How does Isaiah say there's gentile priests? How does the prophecy?

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Speaker 4: What is it?

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Speaker 3: Malachi that incense will be offered all over the world

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for the name of Yahweh. You know, you can only

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offer incense according to the Mosaic law in the temple,

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and it can only be done by the priests, Theroonic priests.

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How could gentiles offer incense God doesn't accept If you

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read the book of Leviticus, for example, native and a

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Bai who try to offer incense in the improper way

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and God kills them, and I think it's Leviticus ten.

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So but wait a minute, how is there going to

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be gentile people and gentile priests offering incense to Yahweh?

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How is there an altar in Egypt to Yahweh? And

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Isaiah nineteen that violates Mosaic law. The only way to

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reconcile those passages is like, oh, because Christianity is the

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fulfillment of this, right.

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Speaker 2: When it gets back to the hermeneutics in the priest

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suppositions in which one reads the scripture in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but even these passages, even if you don't have

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the Christian hermeneutic in Mosaic, in Jewish law, you can't

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have gentiles offering incense to Y'ahwah.

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Speaker 2: Right, But the Jews would claim that's why Jesus hasn't

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come yet, because they're rejecting our scriptural basis for how but.

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Speaker 3: Even when Theresiah comes, a gentile can't do that. You

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have to go to Israel to do that.

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Speaker 2: Oh gotcha?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. In other words, like so Isaiah nineteen,

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for example, says that there will be an altar in Egypt.

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To Yahweh, you can't after Mosaic law, you can't build

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altars anywhere but in Jerusalem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a great point.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 2: I also wrote down Galatians three twenty eight in regards

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to this jew Jews, and gentiles, because Paul clearly makes

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the point that in the Second Covenant of Christ that

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this distinction has been annihilated and that it has been fulfilled,

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and that, according to him, that the prophecy is now ongoing.

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Christ continues to draw peace people from every corner of

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the world into his kingdom, which is the Church. And

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this is a spiritual gathering that transcends geographical boundaries and

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uniting all believers in Christ, which gets actually to your

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point that you're just making that if the kingdom is

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the new Israel, which is the Church, now that spiritual

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dimension allows them to be in multiple places, transcending geographical

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dimensions and lines. Whereas if you reject that now you're

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sort of stuck with actual geographical location.

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Speaker 3: So again, let's refute the rabbinic idea about two more passages.

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Isaiah's sixty six, it says, in verse twenty one, I

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shall take some of them, the gentiles to whom the

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message has gone. That's earlier. In verse twenty bring your

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brethren from onto the gentiles. I will take some of

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them to be my priest and levites. You understand that

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in the Jewish position, even when the Messiah comes, there

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are no gentile priests. There's no gentile lebuts okay, because

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remember the Jewish ideas, Messiah will subjugate the gentiles to us,

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They're not going to be priests. And yet Isaiah is predicting,

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Wait a minute, how can there be gentile priests? In

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Isaiah sixty one, he says very similarly sixty one, verse five,

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foreigners shall come and shepherd you. Aliens will be your

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plow men and your vine dressers. They will be called

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priests of God. Imagine how offensive when Isaiah said this

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was to the Jews. You're saying, gentile priests are gonna

470
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:34,200
be priests in Israel. Get out of here. Cut him

471
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,839
in half. And they did they cut Isaiah in half.

472
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:42,079
Speaker 2: Right, The next point that I wrote down was the

473
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:46,599
world peace and universal knowledge of God. So Rabbinic Judaism

474
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,400
has a criticism that the Messianic Age is supposed to

475
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,359
bring you universal peace and recognition of God, which has not,

476
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,960
according to them, occurred after Jesus's lifetime. The Orthodox teaching

477
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,960
is we've youew Christ as the Prince of Peace Isaiah

478
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:05,079
ninety six, who brings peace not only between nations, but

479
00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:09,119
more importantly between God and humanity. The Church teaches that

480
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,160
Christ's peace begins within the hearts of believers. This is

481
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,319
part of the Second Covenant, reconciling them to God and

482
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,720
to one another through the Holy Spirit. This enter piece

483
00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,000
is the foundation of outward peace, which is progressively realized

484
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,880
as more people embraced Christ. So this fullness of the

485
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,039
universal peace is expected to be fulfilled in the second

486
00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:31,359
coming of Christ, when he will establish a new Heaven

487
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,359
and new Earth Revelation twenty one to one, bringing the

488
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,559
total end of sin, conflict, and death. But he's already

489
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:43,079
defeated death, and he's already defeated sin through the Incarnation,

490
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:47,240
the Resurrection, and the ascension. So what would be your

491
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:50,400
line of attack regarding the rabbinic criticism of world peace

492
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,960
and knowledge of God universal knowledge of God.

493
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:57,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's different in the Orthodox Study Bible because the

494
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,079
ordering of Jeremiah is different, and it's a little confusing

495
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:03,720
because I just reread Jeremiah the other day and finished that,

496
00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:08,480
and I noticed that in the Protestant Bible it's Jeremiah

497
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,440
thirty one and thirty three if you read those two chapters,

498
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,039
which is where the famous New Covenant statement is. In

499
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,000
the Orthodox Bibles, thirty eight it says, behold, the days

500
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,440
are coming when I will make a new covenant with

501
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,119
the House of Israel and with the House of Judah,

502
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:26,640
not according to the covenant that I made with their

503
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,599
fathers when I took their hand to bring them out

504
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,240
of the land of Egypt. So notice the new Covenant,

505
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:37,000
this one that's coming, is going to replace the Mosaic.

506
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,559
So the Mosaic and we would agree as Orthodox that

507
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,480
there is a spiritual interpretation which allows it to still

508
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:50,519
be eternal. It's just not eternal in its literal historical keeping.

509
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,839
By sacrificing animals and all this kind of stuff. It's

510
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,799
kept all Lah Jesus and Matthew iive saying that not

511
00:31:56,839 --> 00:31:59,240
one john or one tittle passes. It's kept in the

512
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:02,519
proper way spiritually, which is by the way how ultimately

513
00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,680
it was always supposed to be kept all the meaning

514
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,400
all along, according to Paul of, don't sew two garments

515
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,640
on one garment was a spiritual thing about not being

516
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:15,920
yoked together with evil. It's supposed to teach you. It's

517
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,519
a pedagogical device to teach you not to sew two

518
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:23,480
different things in a field, meaning don't unite with evil. Right,

519
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,880
it's teaching a virch and vice, unclean animals. They symbolize

520
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,720
demons and vices in the Old Testament, and so they

521
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,920
were supposed to learn this. That's the real meaning of it.

522
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,400
So when the reality comes of the New Covenant, which

523
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,160
again remember it is not according to the Mosaic Covenant,

524
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,920
so there is a clear discrepancy between this coming Messianic Covenant.

525
00:32:43,759 --> 00:32:47,200
And then it says each of them shall teach his neighbor.

526
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,319
They will not teach them and know the Lord, for

527
00:32:49,359 --> 00:32:51,160
they will all know me, from the leaders to the great,

528
00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:52,400
from the least to the greatest.

529
00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: Who are the.

530
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: Members of this universal knowledge?

531
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 2: Here?

532
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: And if you have the proson of buble Germ at

533
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,400
thirty one, ortharx buble Drum at thirty eight. It's the

534
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,680
people that have the Law written on their hearts, which

535
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,279
is the presence of the Holy Spirit in them. It's

536
00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,759
the Church. So the universality that you're talking about is

537
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:12,160
identified even in the Jeremiah passage as those who have

538
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:13,400
the Holy Spirit in them in the Church.

539
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: Right. The point five that I wrote down is Rabbinic

540
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,039
criticism and regarding the perfect observance of the Torah. They

541
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:26,920
claim that the messiahs expected to lead all people in

542
00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:31,279
perfect Torah observance. Yet Jesus' teachings are often appeared to

543
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:37,400
deviate from traditional Jewish law. According to rabbinic tradition. Orthodox

544
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,519
he teaches that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the Torah and the

545
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,920
Law through his life, death, and resurrection. He is seen

546
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,400
as not abolishing the law, but fulfilling its deepest intent

547
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,640
Matthew five seventeen. Jesus interpretation of the Law emphasize its

548
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,240
spirit rather than its letter, focusing on the love of

549
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:59,480
God and neighbor as the highest commandments. For Orthodox Christians,

550
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:02,119
the New c And established by Christ is the ultimate

551
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:04,880
expression of God's Law, written on the hearts of all

552
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,239
believers rather than on stone tablets. The life of the church,

553
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,480
guided by the Holy Spirit, is seen as the true

554
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,400
continuation of Torah observance, fulfilled through fulfilled through Christ.

555
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, this helps to understand what Torah is. So Torah

556
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:26,119
is the word that God spoke, particularly obviously at Mount Sinai.

557
00:34:26,519 --> 00:34:28,719
And if we remember the way that Jesus argues in

558
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,320
John five through nine, it wasn't God the Father. So

559
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,719
who was Moses face to face with? It has to

560
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,760
be some other being. Now, the rabbinic idea is, oh,

561
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,440
it's these angels, it's Metatron. It's all this different angelic,

562
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,960
you know, veil between Moses even and God. But yet

563
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,800
we're told that Moses saw God face to face even

564
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,360
in the Old Testament. So how is that possible. Well,

565
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,000
it's possible because there is this mediator, there is this

566
00:34:55,199 --> 00:35:01,239
second person that is able to be and interacted with.

567
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,880
It's the voice that was walking in the garden. It's

568
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,119
and by the way, he appears again multiple times even

569
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:10,039
in the historical books of the Kings as the voice

570
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:16,519
walking and doing things, the logos walking around. So the

571
00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:21,000
whole idea is that the Torah is the word in

572
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:25,760
a written form, but when Messiah comes, he is the

573
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,880
living Torah. So he is the living Torah. So it's

574
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:35,039
not that we're displacing Torah for some other thing. It's

575
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:39,639
that this was meant as his speech in a created

576
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:45,519
form to point us to the uncreated speech in reality

577
00:35:45,559 --> 00:35:47,320
walking around with us when he's incarnate.

578
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: Right and Number six is the Ebentic criticism of resurrection

579
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,039
of the dead in the End of Sin. They claim

580
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,360
that the resurrection of the dead and the eradication of

581
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,880
sin and death are supposed to be the hallmarks of

582
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,440
the Messianic age, yet the world remains full of sin

583
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:09,239
and death. Obviously, we as Orthodox Christian teach that jesus

584
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,760
resurrection is the first fruits of the resurrection of all

585
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,760
one Corinthians fifteen twenty. His victory over death is the

586
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,719
beginning of the final resurrection, which we will be fully

587
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,039
realized at the end of time when all the dead

588
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:25,400
will be raised and judged. The resurrection of Christ's inaugurated

589
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,199
a new reality where death is defeated, though not yet

590
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:33,039
abolished in its entirety. The Orthodox Church lives in the

591
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:36,039
tension between the already and the not yet. The both

592
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,239
and that you always speak about. And Christ has already

593
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,599
conquered sin and death, but the complete realization of this

594
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,440
victory awaits in the final consummation in history.

595
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Paul speaks of the down payment of the Holy Spirit,

596
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,519
anticipating the future return. He speaks in Romans eight of

597
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:59,039
we do not yet see the recapitulation, but right now

598
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,800
the created order groans and eagerly awaits the revealing of

599
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,800
the sons of God at the escaton. Also remember the

600
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,440
phraseology of some one tent itself sit at my right

601
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:14,800
hand until I make your enemies your fotstool. So there

602
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,079
is this assumption even in the text of an ongoing

603
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,360
historical battle. Right that's that's again, that's an Old Testament text.

604
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,960
If that's prophesying Messiah, which Jews admit is a Messianic prophecy,

605
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,639
there is even within that prophecy the idea that when

606
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:33,079
he's on high, when he's sitting at the right end

607
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:35,320
of the Father, there is an ongoing battle. And you

608
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,719
notice even in the Daniel passages, for example, when you

609
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,400
know you have the passes, the famous passion in Daniel seven,

610
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,559
which the Jewish scholars are admitting, you've got the Son

611
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,079
of Man, and you've got the Ancient of Days. So

612
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,159
clearly there's a distinction here going on in these personages,

613
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:56,159
in these hypostases. And I'm speaking of the Jewish Jewish

614
00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:59,519
scholars that we mentioned earlier, like barn and Schaeffer. Shaeffer

615
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:02,360
has a whole book on Daniel seven and how this

616
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:06,960
suggests at least, you know, two powers. Obviously we believe

617
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,679
in a trinity, but the point still stands that it's

618
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,320
at least it's pointing out that it's not a bare unity, right.

619
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,360
But the Daniel seven passage is also I've always interpreted

620
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:23,000
this as the ascension. Some people, I think erroneously understand

621
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,039
the passage as the Second Coming, because it speaks of

622
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:28,360
you know, the saints and the Kingdom of Heaven and

623
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,079
all this. But what it seems to say, is my understanding,

624
00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:35,920
is that it says that I watched, and thrones were

625
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,679
put in place, and the Ancient of Days and throne himself,

626
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,280
and then it describes him in this white hair sort

627
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,960
of description, and then it says one came to him

628
00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:50,559
with the clouds of heaven, the Son of Man right,

629
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,119
and approached to him. Then to the Son of Man

630
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,880
was given dominion, kingdom, honor, power, et cetera. That's exactly

631
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,400
parallel to the Book of Revelation describing the ascension. And

632
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,800
when the Sun in the Book of Revelation comes to

633
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,920
the Ancient of days, there he is given authority, power,

634
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,360
and dominion that is in our nature. So Christ, even

635
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,480
though Christ, as the second person that God had, has

636
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:17,960
always had these things, but he had not had these

637
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,880
things in our nature. So I believe that Daniel seven

638
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,719
is describing what sometimes in theology called the session. So

639
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,039
it's the session of the king, a procession basically to

640
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:32,760
be awarded the earth in our nature right. And if

641
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,639
you look at the it's a perfect parallel between Revelation.

642
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:39,960
I think maybe it's four for memory, but it's when

643
00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:44,679
assuming Revelation five, I think four and five, when he's

644
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,880
accorded this authority in our nature right.

645
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,519
Speaker 2: And the last point kind of piggybacks on the sixth

646
00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:54,800
point number seven is the Rabbinic criticism that the Messiah

647
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,159
is expected to bring about an age of moral and

648
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:01,639
spiritual perfection, which they claim has yet to happen. And

649
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,000
we the Orthodox Church teach that through Christ, the power

650
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,440
of sin has already been broken as we've already mentioned,

651
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,840
and believers are given the grace to overcome sin through repentance,

652
00:40:12,199 --> 00:40:15,840
the sacraments, and life in Christ i e. Again the Church.

653
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,400
So in the interim until christ second coming, christ followers

654
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,480
are called to participate in this work of personal transformation

655
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,119
embodying the Kingdom of God in the present world as

656
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:32,000
a foretaste of what is to come. They are expecting

657
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:37,719
some type of perfect earthly paradise where justice and sin

658
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,480
is abolished, and justice, pure universal justice reigns.

659
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 3: Well again, keep in mind what we just read in

660
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,880
Psalm one ten and what we saw in Daniel seven.

661
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:51,360
When you go and you read it, it's Revelation five.

662
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,320
When you read the opening of the scroll, which by

663
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,679
the way, is all a heavenly liturgical service, it says

664
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,800
when they opened the scrolls, they said, do not weave

665
00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:04,960
the lion of Judah. The root of David has prevailed,

666
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:07,360
and he is able to open the scroll and loose

667
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,599
its seals. And I looked him behold in the midst

668
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:11,559
of the throne of the four living creatures, and the

669
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:15,079
elders stood the lamb having been slain. So notice he's

670
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:17,199
still bleeding in heaven. So that means there is still

671
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,639
an application of this sacrifice even in heaven, the seven

672
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,920
eyes and the seven spirits of God, et cetera. And

673
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,840
then it says the elders fell down and worshiped him,

674
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,679
which by the way, proves the deed to Christ. He's

675
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,119
being worshiped in heaven. He wouldn't be worshiped if he

676
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:36,360
were not divine. But then it says that He received

677
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,000
out of every tribe tongue in nation the right to

678
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,199
rule and has made us to be kings and priests

679
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,719
of God, and we will reign on earth. So the

680
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,719
Church begins the reign according to Revelation five, when he ascended.

681
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:53,199
So remember, a lot of people make a mistake, a

682
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,840
lot of well meaning evangelicals and even perhaps Orthodox they

683
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,800
read this passage and they think it's the second Coming.

684
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,320
It's not the second Coming, it's the ascension. The ascension

685
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,840
is when He has given this right to rule in

686
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,239
the midst of his enemies in the church. And that's,

687
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,880
by the way, what Psalm two said. Psalm two says

688
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,920
the Messiah would write rule by the rod of his mouth.

689
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:18,320
The church fathers almost always unanimously interpret that as the

690
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,400
preaching of the gospel. Right, why are the nations raised

691
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,800
and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of

692
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,119
their set themselves against the Lord and against his Messiah, saying,

693
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,480
let us break their bands and cast away the yoke.

694
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:33,400
But he who sits in the heavens shall laugh. That's

695
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,960
the ascension. He will mock them and speak to them

696
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,119
in his wrath on his holy hill of Zion, the

697
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:43,599
heavenly Zion. The Lord has decreed you are my son. Today.

698
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:46,079
I've begotten you ask of me, and I give the

699
00:42:46,199 --> 00:42:49,679
nations to you as your inheritance. That's the ascension. It's

700
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,199
not the second Coming. Right.

701
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: The next line of criticism that we get from these

702
00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:59,440
deconstructing my Christianity types is really you kind of basic

703
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,000
bitch arguements regarding the Odyssey. And so I've I've found

704
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:06,599
four that was brought up multiple times in a cursory

705
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:11,239
scroll through TikTok thousands of videos, and one is the

706
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,480
first one is the Great Flood. So they claim that

707
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:17,280
can you how can you worship a God of unlimited love,

708
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,800
eternal love, who then flooded the world and killed people

709
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,360
and animals and babies and women. So that's reference to

710
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,760
Genesis six through nine, And the other ones are the

711
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,320
bear attack, which is so common about the boys being

712
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,280
attacked by a bear. That's second Kings or fourth Kingdoms,

713
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,639
depending on which Bible you have, and then the Canaanites

714
00:43:41,679 --> 00:43:44,760
being punished by Israel. Look at I saw one person

715
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,400
describe it as like, look at your vengeful God that

716
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,679
he will even use like people who aren't part of

717
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,559
his end group to attack his own people and kill them.

718
00:43:55,639 --> 00:43:57,920
I mean, what a what a horrendous entity. And then

719
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,679
they'll use then they'll flip it, use Deuteronomy twenty and

720
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,480
talking about God commanding the Israelites to abolish the Moloch worshipers,

721
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,960
and then say, oh, can you believe your God tells

722
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,400
the chosen people to kill their enemies. So they use

723
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,039
this both ways to try to justify how God is

724
00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:19,599
evil and immoral, basically based on the same moral standards

725
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:21,079
that Christianity puts forth.

726
00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:25,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's several different things going on here. So first

727
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,360
is the issue of problem of evil to the Odyssey itself,

728
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,400
which is of course not necessarily an objection. I understand

729
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,960
why people would perhaps think this is an objection. And

730
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,440
if I were to steel man the opposition, I guess

731
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,639
the Odyssey might be the best that they have to offer.

732
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,119
Not so much in the case of the Conquest of

733
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:47,960
Canaan or this kind of stuff. I don't actually think

734
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,000
those are very good arguments, but just the existence of

735
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,119
evil itself why God permitted it. But if you think

736
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:57,039
about it really strictly logically speaking, it doesn't actually pose

737
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,039
a problem for Christianity, because there's not If Christianity is

738
00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:03,440
true in the world of Christianity, God's not under any

739
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,599
obligation to tell us the reasons why He permitted everything.

740
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:11,000
So while we might not like it, it might not

741
00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:14,280
be easy, it's not really any kind of an actual

742
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,599
logical problem for Christianity. If God has his own reasons

743
00:45:18,639 --> 00:45:22,880
by which he permits evil, in his infinite knowledge right

744
00:45:23,079 --> 00:45:25,280
which he knows how to bring greater goods out of,

745
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,880
that doesn't actually oppose a logical problem for Christianity. We

746
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,800
might not like it, might be a tough pill to swallow,

747
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:37,239
But when an atheist criticizes Christianity, if we think about

748
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,360
tag that, they don't really have a basis to say

749
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,000
that that's wrong anyway. I mean, on what basis is

750
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,119
it actually wrong to say that, you know, got the evil.

751
00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:49,280
God permitted evil to exist. Okay, but what's your basis

752
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,199
for evil to begin with? You don't have any you know,

753
00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:54,840
coherent argument for that at all. It's if you're an

754
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,199
atheist or something like that. Or and I would venture

755
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,519
to say ninety nine percent of these deconstructionist people deconstructing

756
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:03,360
their Christianity they wouldn't be able to give any coherent

757
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:07,400
account of you know, right and wrong either. But if

758
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:08,960
you read the Book of Job too, right, I mean,

759
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,840
that's kind of what Joe, what God says to Job.

760
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,920
It's like, that's the whole purpose of that book is

761
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,840
dealing with grappling with the problem of evil. And the

762
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,039
answer at the end is essentially that, well, look, if

763
00:46:18,119 --> 00:46:22,000
you don't know all of the infinite relationships between the

764
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:24,920
created order and how that works, how are you going

765
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,360
to be able to understand something even higher than that,

766
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,800
God's knowledge of things like the existence of evil and

767
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,280
wise permitted. And the answer is simply that you can't

768
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,119
even understand that at this point. So again, we might

769
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:41,719
not like that, but it's not really like a logical

770
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:46,000
defeater for Christianity. Now, to be a little more precise

771
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:48,960
about the let's start with the Conquest of Canaan. I

772
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,960
actually talking about the bears. James Jordan is a really

773
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,599
good book on the Judges. It's a commentary I read

774
00:46:54,639 --> 00:46:56,880
many years ago, and I think he has a really

775
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,480
good explanation of this, which is that if you look

776
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,280
at the words, it doesn't necessarily mean absolutely like young children.

777
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:06,559
This is more like a gang of like harassing teenagers

778
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:12,159
or just youths that are harassing somebody who has anointed

779
00:47:12,199 --> 00:47:16,400
authority from God. So this is a tremendous like they're

780
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,480
they're actually mocking somebody who is appointed as one of

781
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:23,559
God's anointed. So it's an a facing of It's like

782
00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:27,440
a middle finger too God and his authority. So no,

783
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:30,239
it actually does make sense that if you're gonna, you know,

784
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:34,880
mock God's prophets, has anointed that is actually worthy of

785
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,880
death in the Old Testament. And we can understand why

786
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480
because when you tolerate that kind of a thing in

787
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:44,519
a society, it allows for there to be more rebellion.

788
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,360
Right even in the Middle Ages, for example, one of

789
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,360
the reasons that they had a lot of strict laws

790
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:57,440
for heretical groups and sects was because it also had

791
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,280
a social effect if you allowed the heretical group to

792
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,920
propagate in Catholic societies, for example in the Latin West,

793
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,880
it actually was a basis for social disorder and revolution.

794
00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:12,199
And this is actually where communism. Communism comes out of

795
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,239
some of these medieval you come if you're these kind

796
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,840
of sectarian groups that are allowed eventually to propagate and

797
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,599
they overthrow the order, so they're dangerous to the social order.

798
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:26,440
And it was true even back then. You know, God

799
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:29,320
says to Saul, rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

800
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,559
And so just as it was wrong for Salt to rebel,

801
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:35,559
and Saul ends up guilty of you know, worthy of death,

802
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:38,159
God eventually puts Saul to death by handing him over

803
00:48:38,199 --> 00:48:43,360
to his sins. He commits suicide. Likewise, to deface and

804
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,719
speak to a prophet this way is actually rebelling against

805
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:51,639
God himself. It's as the sin of witchcraft. And so

806
00:48:51,679 --> 00:48:55,360
there's more like a gang of like hoods, it's not

807
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,000
like a bunch of four year olds. So and James

808
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:01,599
Jordan has a good argument for that on the basis

809
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:04,400
of the Hebrew word in his book on Judges. But

810
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,679
now a little bit more information you have to understand too,

811
00:49:07,679 --> 00:49:11,239
and I didn't actually realize this until fairly recently rereading Genesis.

812
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:14,800
If you go back and read the story of Malkisadak,

813
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:21,920
Malchisadak is a priest of God right most in Salem.

814
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,639
That's Jeru Salem, so prior to the Canaanites whatever is

815
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:32,480
going on there, there is an existing priesthood. It's a

816
00:49:32,519 --> 00:49:38,079
he's a gentile in Salem, Jerusalem Canaan's land. It's a

817
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,599
property of the Righteous prior to the Canaanites and the Jebsites.

818
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,599
So when David, Joshua and David are told to conquer

819
00:49:46,639 --> 00:49:52,039
the land, it is a reconquest of God's righteous people's land.

820
00:49:52,159 --> 00:49:54,559
It is not a theft of the land from the Pagans.

821
00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:57,760
And I would say ninety nine percent of the atheist

822
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,159
reddit people who make this argument don't understand that, first

823
00:50:01,199 --> 00:50:04,280
of all, these wicked people took it from the righteous.

824
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,039
And if you read the Genesis narrative, it explains that

825
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:11,559
because Psalm seventy six two says that Salem is identical

826
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:15,519
too the Salem of Genesis with Malchisedek. Right, he's a

827
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:20,880
priest to God in Salem. It's identified as Jerusalem.

828
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 2: It is Zion.

829
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 3: Psalm seventy six two says in Judah God is known,

830
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:28,280
his name is great in Israel in Salem. Also is

831
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,760
his tabernacle his dwelling place in Zion. So and we

832
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:35,480
also read that blessed the Abraham of God, most High,

833
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,519
possessor of Heaven and Earth. Right, that's just in Genesis fourteen.

834
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:42,920
So when Abraham blesses Malchisidak, when he tithes to him,

835
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:48,599
he's submitting to the as Paul argues in Hebrews seven,

836
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,559
the superiority of the Melchizedekian priesthood to the ironic because

837
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:57,159
the ironic priesthood is in Abraham in his loins right.

838
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:03,719
So Abraham tithing to Malchisa is an example of deference

839
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,920
to the greater. The lesser ties to the greater. That

840
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:13,760
means the previous existing gentile priesthood belkista dek is superior

841
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,679
to the ironic Jewish priesthood. That's the argument of the

842
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,119
Book of Hebrews in chapter seven. Now that that would

843
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:24,880
infuriate Jews, but that's the logic that assuming Paul wrote

844
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,000
it right. Paul's arguing in Hebrews seven, but very few

845
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,599
people know or have realized that it was already the

846
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:35,639
property the righteous. By the way, this explains why and how.

847
00:51:36,559 --> 00:51:39,119
I remember, I never could figure out how is Jethro

848
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,679
a priest the only way to be a priest if

849
00:51:41,679 --> 00:51:43,159
you think about it in terms of like you know,

850
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,679
Old Testament Moses, like you have to be a descendant

851
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,480
of Aaron, Right, that's the only priesthood. Well, no, actually

852
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:53,960
there's another priesthood, a priesthood of alchisa De And so

853
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,920
Jethro is a priest to God as well. How because

854
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:02,000
there's righteous people outside of the Jews who even have

855
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:04,920
a priesthood and who can call upon God all the

856
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:07,119
way back to Genesis, for they built an altar called

857
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:09,880
upon the Lord. They're not Jews.

858
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: So we pretty much ambled the gay.

859
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 3: Apologize all that to say that when the land is

860
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:26,079
then taken by these wicked people, namely the Canaanites, the Jebusites,

861
00:52:26,119 --> 00:52:31,280
the Hittites, the Parasites, Hvites, et cetera. Leviticus eighteen, that

862
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,719
entire chapter is a long explanation of how wicked these

863
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:40,519
people were. And they were not just wicked people who

864
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:43,320
stole the land of Jerusalem from the Righteous, from Melchizede.

865
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:46,880
They were so wicked that they were pushing essentially every

866
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,639
degenerous that you could think of the worst possible things.

867
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,800
And then God, as you pointed out, warns the Jews,

868
00:52:54,199 --> 00:52:58,239
you better not accept their practices or else I will

869
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,880
vomit you out of the land. So there's not different standards.

870
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:03,199
It's the same standard for them and for the Jews.

871
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,199
In fact, the Jews are held to a higher standard

872
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:07,880
because they have more. You know, too much is given,

873
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,360
much is required. Right. So, if you read Joshua two

874
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,360
eight through eleven, it talks about how these people were

875
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:21,239
such a continual hampering of God's people that the reason

876
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,639
that God gave them the right to get rid of

877
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:28,559
that group of people was precisely because of the necessity

878
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:32,960
to preserve the Jewish people for the production of the Messiah. Right,

879
00:53:33,039 --> 00:53:36,440
and so because they're the group that was chosen by

880
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,440
God to produce the Messiah, God is getting rid of

881
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,440
the people that might pose a threat or might exterminate

882
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,880
that lineage. Remember, exactly what does Pharaoh want to do.

883
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,000
He wants to exterminate the Jews. He wants to exterminate

884
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:53,079
the first born to make sure that why he doesn't

885
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:55,559
he might not even know this, but he's satanically inspired,

886
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,559
just like Herod is, to ensure that there will not

887
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:01,400
be a Messiah born to the Jews. So that's why

888
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,599
they want to exterminate Jews in the Old Testament period,

889
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,639
and that's why God says, okay, well, the people that

890
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,039
try to exterminate you, you're going to exterminate those lineages. Now,

891
00:54:11,199 --> 00:54:15,320
what about the unfairness of the infants and getting rid

892
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,960
of all of their women and their children. The reason

893
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,400
for this is because if you read Genesis, it talks

894
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,599
about in Justis fifteen that the Amorites and the Hittites

895
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:29,280
and all these different people their iniquity must be filled

896
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,559
up to the measure, and it says it'll before. God

897
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,519
tells Abraham, it will be four hundred years before your

898
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:37,199
people come and take this land. So, in other words,

899
00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:40,119
God is so patient with the wicked people he gives

900
00:54:40,159 --> 00:54:44,039
them four hundred years to stop being that way, And

901
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:47,000
other passages, by the way in the Old Testament make

902
00:54:47,079 --> 00:54:49,679
it clear that God has also demonstrated his power and

903
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,639
his presence even to those people. Right that, so after

904
00:54:53,679 --> 00:54:57,320
four hundred years, if those generations were still that wicked,

905
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,880
then it was right to get rid of them, and

906
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:03,000
God knew that they would not repent, even their children

907
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,159
would not repent, because the previous four hundred years of

908
00:55:06,199 --> 00:55:09,519
their children had not repented, right, right, And so that's

909
00:55:09,559 --> 00:55:12,639
the justification for why God says these people need to

910
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:15,360
be removed. And you might, we could even argue as

911
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,400
Orthodox because of the doctrine of the descent of Christ

912
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,760
into Hades. It's still not even hopeless for these people,

913
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,039
because it's possible that some of these people hear the

914
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:28,719
gospel when Jesus preaches the Gospel to the day. So

915
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,440
all of these things, I think help us to understand

916
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:36,039
that it's not just randomly God saying go kill all

917
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:38,480
the people in Palestine and take the land.

918
00:55:39,039 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 2: Right.

919
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:43,519
Speaker 3: That's how like when you would like Muslims or Palestinians,

920
00:55:43,519 --> 00:55:45,719
when they bring up these texts, they don't give any

921
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,360
of this context. They just say, you know, the Jewish

922
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,840
God is evil. He says to kill the children and everything. No,

923
00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:56,159
the wicked Pagans at that time stole this land from

924
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,079
Malchisadac and the righteous who were not Jews.

925
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,159
Speaker 2: They were Dentials, and as you pointed out, the abominations

926
00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:09,039
that they were advancing, I mean child sacrifice, homosexuality, sodom,

927
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:13,039
me all types of wickedness is what leads to, again

928
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:16,400
the annihilation of Sodom and Gomora, which I'm sure somebody

929
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,599
has highlighted about on TikTok. I didn't catch one, but

930
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:23,400
I could see easily based on the quality of deconstruction

931
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,719
and criticism them highlighting the annihilation of Sodomon Gomora being

932
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:32,599
indicative of the evil sky Daddy of the Old Testament

933
00:56:33,119 --> 00:56:35,039
killing trans and gays.

934
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the reason if you read Samuel, the reason

935
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,760
that and first Samuel fifteen and then Exodus seventeen and

936
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,079
then deuter On Me twenty five. The reason for this

937
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,480
strict rule here is that remember what the Amalikites did

938
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,280
to you when you were leaving Egypt. You were weary,

939
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,440
you were worn out. Yet when they met you on

940
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,239
your journey, they cut you off and they killed the

941
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,719
women and the children that were lagging behind. They did

942
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,400
this because they had no fear of God. So God

943
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,840
is doing eye for an eye to these people because

944
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,920
of their wicked practices and ultimately.

945
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,039
Speaker 2: Causing the fear of God to be instilled in them

946
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:17,239
to call them to repentance.

947
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,039
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, but I think that the reason

948
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:23,320
he would be telling the Jews to cut off the

949
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,480
women and the children is that God knows that even

950
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:31,400
another even this next generation, will not repent. Right, But

951
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,679
even if the possibility of repentance were there for that

952
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,840
generation that's being cut off, there is the possibility that,

953
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,079
you know, especially if it's like women and children or

954
00:57:41,079 --> 00:57:44,280
something like that. You know, Cyril says, the Gospels preached

955
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,119
to the dead and the Old Testament, like all those

956
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:49,000
dead the Old Testament have the Gospel preached them when

957
00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:50,239
Christ descends in the Hades.

958
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:56,199
Speaker 2: Right. I think that pretty much summarizes the theodicy debate,

959
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,239
of which we'll probably see a few when we start.

960
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:00,639
Everybody's asking us to look at take talk. We will

961
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:02,639
in just a minute. We just have really one more

962
00:58:02,719 --> 00:58:05,960
section to go through here, and that's there. There may

963
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:09,920
Another major criticism of these deconstructionist types is calling into

964
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:15,360
question the Holy Trinity and and claiming so arian christologies,

965
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,599
claiming Christ isn't God incarnate, claiming that the Trinity is

966
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:24,159
a Hellenic invention, which McClellan makes that claim in his

967
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:27,400
his Big book. I have it pulled up. It's it's

968
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:32,800
a free pdf online, but I have a few passages,

969
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,280
just highlighting the presence. And you have way more than

970
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,760
I do, so I'll just refer to you in regards

971
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,599
to Old Testament and New Testament references to the Holy Trinity.

972
00:58:42,679 --> 00:58:46,960
This isn't some innovation that occurred when the Scripture was

973
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,159
put together or during the councils or something like this,

974
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,559
as these people claim. It's some type of Hellenic philosophical

975
00:58:54,639 --> 00:59:04,079
infusion with Old Testament judaism. Okay, so a few like

976
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:07,039
the references. I just grabbed a few references in the

977
00:59:07,039 --> 00:59:11,079
New Testament. First one is being the baptismal formula. You

978
00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:15,280
can look at Matthew twenty eight nineteen clearly a reference

979
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,599
to the Holy Trinity. Matthew three sixteen through seventeen. Jesus'

980
00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:24,920
baptism himself is clearly a representation and expression of the

981
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:29,119
presence of the Holy Trinity. Tewod Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The

982
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:32,440
Pauline benediction is a clear reference to the Holy Trinity.

983
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,840
And in John John's replete with it. And I just

984
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,320
grabbed three verses John one one through fourteen. Obviously in

985
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,719
the beginning was the logos. The logos was with God.

986
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,039
The logos is God John fourteen sixteen through seventeen, and

987
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:49,920
John fifteen sixteen. Those are just a few references within

988
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,000
the New Testament, and you have, as you've said, way

989
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:54,880
more in the Old Testament. I just grabbed a few

990
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:59,440
that these people refused to address. Genesis won twenty six

991
00:59:59,519 --> 01:00:01,519
made an our image. I mean, right there at the

992
01:00:01,639 --> 01:00:04,079
very beginning of Genesis we see the presence of the

993
01:00:04,119 --> 01:00:07,119
Holy Trinity in regard to the creation of man. In

994
01:00:07,239 --> 01:00:11,800
Genesis eighteen Abraham's visitors, which obviously we have an icon

995
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:18,480
expression expressing the presence of the Holy Trinity. Exodus three

996
01:00:18,599 --> 01:00:21,639
two through six, Judges thirteen, Angel of the Lord and

997
01:00:21,679 --> 01:00:26,679
all the Christophanes that are present within there. Genesis one two,

998
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:31,039
Judges six thirty four, the Spirit of God being present,

999
01:00:32,199 --> 01:00:35,559
Proverbs eight twenty two through thirty one. The personification of

1000
01:00:35,639 --> 01:00:42,960
Wisdom is another indication. Psalm thirty three six Trinity present

1001
01:00:43,079 --> 01:00:47,719
and creation itself again. And Isaiah six one through eight.

1002
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:50,800
We have Isaiah's vision of the Trinity, and we can

1003
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,400
also find to demonstrate that it wasn't some innovation. Three

1004
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:59,920
hundred years after Christ, Saint Ignatius is Antioch justin Martyr

1005
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:05,280
Irenaeus Trutulian, even origin all speak directly about worshiping a trinity,

1006
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:11,320
a trinitarian God, not some general monad or something of

1007
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,079
that sort, or just the Father, and having these sort

1008
01:01:14,119 --> 01:01:18,599
of minor demi urges of Christ and the Holy Spirit

1009
01:01:19,039 --> 01:01:22,559
and so. And then the liturgical practice here in the church,

1010
01:01:22,679 --> 01:01:25,000
in the Orthodox Church, it's evidence in the prayers, it's

1011
01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:27,760
evidence in the hymns, it's evidence in the baptismal rites

1012
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,719
and those pre existed. Even the putting together of scripture

1013
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:35,519
and the canon so part of the oral tradition. I've

1014
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:38,880
yet to see anybody in these deconstructing my Christianity even

1015
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,920
address the existence of an oral tradition before the putting

1016
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:43,760
of scripture together.

1017
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, agreed. Genesis one. But then Genesis

1018
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,920
four or three, they heard the voice of the Lord,

1019
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:54,599
the God walking in the garden.

1020
01:01:55,679 --> 01:01:56,039
Speaker 1: You have.

1021
01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:08,719
Speaker 3: The Genesis twelve when Abraham is cold. That's also a

1022
01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:22,159
theophany too, because it says that in verse seven, the

1023
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:26,760
Lord God appeared to Abraham and said, to your seat,

1024
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,880
I will give this land, and Abraham built an altar.

1025
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,840
So you notice right there there's liturgical worship and there's

1026
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,639
a theophany of an appearance very early to Abraham. This

1027
01:02:37,679 --> 01:02:39,800
is sighted, by the way, if you read the Summer Book,

1028
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,840
Benjamin Sommer actually goes through all of these and Genesis

1029
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,159
to where it's not just theophanies, but there's actual places

1030
01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:51,920
and objects that are already becoming sanctified and holy. For example,

1031
01:02:52,159 --> 01:02:55,880
when God appears at the Oak of Memory, when Jacob

1032
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,800
rests his head, they anoint the stone. There's a holy

1033
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,239
holy tree. This is all throughout the just even the

1034
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:07,079
book of Genesis, so we have to I'm not criticizing you,

1035
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:10,400
but it's like this is when you're really careful in

1036
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,440
the reading of the Old Testament, especially Genesis, this stuff

1037
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,639
is everywhere. For example, Jenesis fifteen, when Abraham God makes

1038
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:20,280
it coming up with Abraham, it says, the word of

1039
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,360
the Lord came to Abraham. Do not be afraid. I

1040
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:29,400
am your reward. Immediately the voice said, I am the

1041
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,920
one right. The voice of God said that this one

1042
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,039
shall not be your air, but the one who shall

1043
01:03:36,039 --> 01:03:38,360
come from your body shall be your air, talking about

1044
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:44,199
of course, Isaac. But the passage then has this mysterious

1045
01:03:45,119 --> 01:03:49,480
presence of when the sun went down, there was a flame,

1046
01:03:50,119 --> 01:03:55,000
and behold a smoking oven appeared, and lamps and fire

1047
01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:58,360
passed through the pieces of the animals that were cut.

1048
01:03:58,719 --> 01:04:02,800
And if you read Ezeki you'll one verse thirteen, the

1049
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,079
same description is used of the cherubim when the son

1050
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:10,239
of Man is is present in Genesis one. Ezekiel one one,

1051
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:11,840
like a son of Man, the face of the glory

1052
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,800
of God is writing the chariot. That's Jesus, that's telling

1053
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,920
us that, if I know my old testam't really well.

1054
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,559
The same oven and lamps, fire, lamps that pass through

1055
01:04:22,519 --> 01:04:26,280
in this, in this theophany, it's the same son of

1056
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,559
God that's present in Ezekiel one. The lamps tells you

1057
01:04:29,599 --> 01:04:31,000
that if you know what you know what I'm talking about,

1058
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:35,840
that it's not it's not the ancient aliens. Right when

1059
01:04:36,599 --> 01:04:40,880
he sees the wheels and he sees the cherub it's

1060
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,880
not ancient aliens. It's the It's a theophany, and it's

1061
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:48,920
the same. Yes, it's the same theophany that appears to

1062
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,800
Abraham and justis fifteen and passes through the cut animals.

1063
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,239
Now again, moving on, I'm not going to do all these,

1064
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,599
but there's so many of these. The Hagar text is

1065
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:01,440
so important in Genesis sixteen, because it's not just the

1066
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,079
alphonies that are appearing to Abraham. The theophany appears to Hagar.

1067
01:05:06,599 --> 01:05:09,960
Because Hagar, after the Angel the Lord appears, she says,

1068
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:15,159
I saw God face to face. Who's the face of Yahweh? Well,

1069
01:05:15,199 --> 01:05:19,119
guess what you mentioned that passage in Judges six with Gideon.

1070
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,599
Somehmer brings us up because he says, the Hebrew text

1071
01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:27,039
actually reads and Yahweh turned his face to Gideon in

1072
01:05:27,119 --> 01:05:33,119
the in Judges six twenty two to twenty five. How

1073
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:37,599
does Yahweh have a face? You see what I'm saying. Yeah,

1074
01:05:37,639 --> 01:05:41,960
as you said, yeah, the meal with Abraham and this

1075
01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:44,800
is eighteen. But you have to keep in mind, like

1076
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:47,960
the last time at read Genesis, I missed a bunch

1077
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,960
of theophonies. There's a theophany in Genesis twenty four. The

1078
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,639
Angel Lord appear again to Isaac. In the situation with

1079
01:05:55,719 --> 01:06:00,000
Isaac and Rebecca, they call the well where this appearance happened,

1080
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,559
the well of vision, vision of what of God? It's

1081
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:07,800
the well of vision, the well where you see God.

1082
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:11,320
It's so obvious when you go back and read these passages,

1083
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,559
it's like, wait a minute, of course God appears he

1084
01:06:14,599 --> 01:06:18,280
appears all the time. Genesis twenty six, the Lord appeared

1085
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:25,159
to him to Isaac and said, right, there's another theophany

1086
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,280
in Genesis twenty six twenty three. Then the Lord went

1087
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,039
up there to the well of Oath and appeared that

1088
01:06:31,159 --> 01:06:34,280
same night. And so he built an altar there at

1089
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,639
the well, the well of oath, the well of the Covenant.

1090
01:06:37,639 --> 01:06:41,920
So next one Genesis twenty eight, the Well of Oath.

1091
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:45,039
So he came to a certain place, and he took

1092
01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:48,760
one of the stones where he lay his head, and behold,

1093
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,960
he dreamt and saw the latter right, and he anointed

1094
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,719
the oil, and annointed the stone, and poured oil on

1095
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:03,079
the pillar, and called it the gate of Heaven. So

1096
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,000
again we have stones and images there, because this is

1097
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:15,360
going to be where he rustles right, Jacob, latter right right, well.

1098
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: And to the point, I would just grab in again

1099
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,559
like seven seven sections of the Old Testament, a handful

1100
01:07:21,559 --> 01:07:23,159
from the New test but just to make the point.

1101
01:07:23,159 --> 01:07:27,960
But as you're demonstrating, well, there's only a few more.

1102
01:07:28,239 --> 01:07:32,159
Speaker 3: If you're ahead, go ahead, because just Genesis alone is

1103
01:07:32,159 --> 01:07:33,880
so packed with these. And by the way we did

1104
01:07:34,239 --> 01:07:35,920
for those that are interested, I have an older talk

1105
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,960
where I do a lot of Old Testament Trinitarian references,

1106
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,599
and I have that more recent talk about just in

1107
01:07:41,639 --> 01:07:45,239
the Torah, all the trinitarian references. But this is just Genesis.

1108
01:07:45,239 --> 01:07:47,440
As we can move through these pretty quickly. Now they

1109
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,239
call the place in Genesis twenty eight where you have

1110
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,639
this vision of the ladder and he sees the angels

1111
01:07:52,679 --> 01:07:56,000
of God is sinding and descending upon this throne, or

1112
01:07:56,039 --> 01:08:01,840
ascuse me upon this it's Jacob's vision of Jacob's latter

1113
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:07,639
in Genesis twenty eight, and he anoints the stone there,

1114
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,199
which is a symbol of Christ. Christ is obviously the stone.

1115
01:08:10,679 --> 01:08:14,719
But they call that place Bethel House of God. How

1116
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,760
could it be the house of God if God didn't

1117
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,960
manifest and be there in time and in space right

1118
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:23,800
as you read through Genesis. Clearly that's what's happening. Genesis

1119
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:28,560
thirty one. I am I am the God of Jacob appears,

1120
01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:32,079
who appeared to you at Bethel when you anointed the

1121
01:08:32,079 --> 01:08:35,159
pillar and made a vow to me. So God again appears,

1122
01:08:36,039 --> 01:08:38,439
this time to Jacob when he flees Laban, and he says,

1123
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,920
I am the Angel and God. So notice the angel

1124
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,880
is calling himself God in Genesis thirty one, Verses twelve

1125
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,760
to thirteen, another thing oftening. So again moving through these,

1126
01:08:50,079 --> 01:08:52,760
the Angel is called God again in Genesis thirty two,

1127
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,000
what do you know about my name? Why do you

1128
01:08:57,039 --> 01:09:01,039
ask me my name? Jacob called that place form of God,

1129
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:04,159
for he saw God face to face, and his soul

1130
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:09,479
was saved. The form of God then passed by Genesis

1131
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:14,279
thirty two, form of God, face of God. Genesis thirty five,

1132
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:18,159
another theophany, I am God, I am your God. And

1133
01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:20,399
then God ascended up from that place where he talked

1134
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:22,520
to him in a pillar, and Jacob said, up a pillar.

1135
01:09:23,079 --> 01:09:26,920
So again Jacob at Bethel, again God appears Genesis thirty five.

1136
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:30,319
We're almost done. But I mean, just Genesis is so

1137
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:31,319
full of dude, that's great.

1138
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 2: I don't even realize how many Genesis had.

1139
01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 3: This Holy Spirit is spoken of even Pharaoh. When Jacob

1140
01:09:38,119 --> 01:09:41,880
Joseph is in Egypt, Pharaoh says, the spirit of God

1141
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,359
is in this man. So even Pharaoh seems to be

1142
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:48,359
aware of the distinction between Yahweh and the spirit that's

1143
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:53,039
Saint Joseph. Yeah, and then we get to again Genesis

1144
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:58,279
forty six. Jacob journeys to Egypt. Now when Jacob took

1145
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:00,680
this journey with all that he had to the will

1146
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:02,920
of oath, and he offered a sacrifice to the goddess

1147
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,479
father Isaac. And then God spoke to him in a

1148
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:07,520
vision of the night and said, I am the God

1149
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:09,760
of your father. So again he sees him, sees God again.

1150
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:12,159
And by the way, sometimes it's seeing in a vision

1151
01:10:12,159 --> 01:10:14,840
and a dream, and sometimes it's an actual appearance, right,

1152
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,279
so both, it's not either or it's both. And then

1153
01:10:17,319 --> 01:10:19,079
the key tact that I want to end with is

1154
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,279
this is really important in Genesis because this lets us

1155
01:10:22,279 --> 01:10:25,760
know that this angel messenger that they keep interacting with

1156
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,439
and they keep seeing in all these different locations and

1157
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:33,520
places all throughout Genesis Genesis forty eight. And it says God,

1158
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,600
who before my father Abraham and Isaac were well pleasing,

1159
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:39,319
the God who has fed me my entire life, the

1160
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:43,279
Angel who redeemed me from my evils. So the Angel

1161
01:10:43,359 --> 01:10:47,079
is called the Redeemer. Remember in Exodus, we're not going

1162
01:10:47,119 --> 01:10:49,720
to go through the Exodus passages. But remember in Exodus,

1163
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,359
in Exodus twenty three and thirty three, the same appearance,

1164
01:10:54,600 --> 01:11:00,640
the same being in the burning bush, and Acto is

1165
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,479
twenty three God says, you better obey this angel because

1166
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,359
he will not forgive your sins if you don't, or

1167
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:12,680
my name Yahweh is in him. Angels can't redeem, they

1168
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:13,800
can't say it gives.

1169
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:20,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a really good one to end on.

1170
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 3: Now that's just Genesis.

1171
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that was amazing. I wasn't even I

1172
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,479
need to reread Genesis because I wasn't even conscious of

1173
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:32,239
all the different Theophanes present. But just within Genesis. But

1174
01:11:32,359 --> 01:11:35,359
the last little section I had before we dive into

1175
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:40,479
some of these TikTok deconstructionists is the Messianic prophecies. So,

1176
01:11:41,199 --> 01:11:46,119
utilizing this rabbinic line of argument, I just have seven,

1177
01:11:46,159 --> 01:11:48,079
and I'm sure you probably have a lot more, just

1178
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:52,239
points in which Christ actually fulfills the Messianic prophecies of

1179
01:11:52,279 --> 01:11:55,079
the Old Testament, and so a few of them here.

1180
01:11:56,039 --> 01:11:58,520
The first one is the Messiahs birth of a virgin.

1181
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:03,159
We can find this and Isaiah seven fourteen. Another one

1182
01:12:03,239 --> 01:12:07,000
Bethlehem as the birthplace of Christ Micah five to two,

1183
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,640
Isaiah fifty three, The Suffering Servant. Obviously, Christ's resurrection and

1184
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:18,119
his suffering for the sins of humanity clearly fits that structure.

1185
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:23,079
Zachariah ninety nine, the triumphal entry into Jerusalem, which again

1186
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,960
we see with Christ being fulfilled, is president in the

1187
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,600
Old Testament. Zachariah eleven twelve through thirteen, the betrayal for

1188
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:34,000
thirty pieces of silver, so clearly referencing Judas's betrayal of

1189
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,359
Christ in the incarnate God, that's right there in Zachariah.

1190
01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:41,399
Psalm twenty two sixteen, the piercing of the hands and

1191
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:45,399
the feet of the Messiah. Well, the crucifixion of Christ

1192
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:48,239
clearly fulfills that. And then the last one that I

1193
01:12:48,359 --> 01:12:52,119
just had just grabbing seven was Psalm sixteen ten. Isaiah

1194
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:56,399
fifty three ten through eleven is the Messiah's resurrection. And

1195
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:01,960
so all these things together signify that Jesus Christ fulfills

1196
01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:05,439
the prophecies of the Messiah, the Old Testament. And this

1197
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:08,960
idea that they can take this rabbinic line of thought

1198
01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:12,800
and somehow then kind of play games with both the

1199
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:14,960
New and the Old Testament. It just doesn't line up,

1200
01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:18,439
because if you're taking the New Testament at face value,

1201
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:21,680
some of these people are now non believers. But clearly

1202
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,399
it's demonstrating that Christ fulfills all these prophecies that were

1203
01:13:25,399 --> 01:13:26,560
present in the Old Testament.

1204
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many of these. I mean again, it's difficult.

1205
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,119
I've got just one page here of And remember it's

1206
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:38,560
not just specifically prophecies that only relate to the person

1207
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,720
of the Messiah and his work, but also all of

1208
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:45,079
the passages of prophecies that, for example, relate to the

1209
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:51,000
Gentile Church. Because once the Gentiles begin to turn to Yahweh,

1210
01:13:51,359 --> 01:13:53,640
which again, if you think about it would seem totally

1211
01:13:54,399 --> 01:13:57,079
just insane to any Jew in the Old Testament, Right,

1212
01:13:57,279 --> 01:14:00,760
if you're Isaiah, think about Daniel, Right, Daniel is being

1213
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,159
told that the Gentiles are going to believe in the

1214
01:14:03,159 --> 01:14:06,960
God of Israel, of Yahweh. I mean, Daniel's being taken

1215
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,039
off into battlon in captivity. Israel's been going to be destroyed, right,

1216
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,199
So just imagine how insane it would be to like,

1217
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:15,399
He's thinking, what, how in the world are all these

1218
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:18,920
awful pagan people going to be turning to the God

1219
01:14:19,119 --> 01:14:21,119
of Israel. It's just it doesn't make any It just

1220
01:14:21,159 --> 01:14:25,239
seems implausible. Right, Isaiah too, because Isaiah, Isaiah is really

1221
01:14:25,279 --> 01:14:28,239
important because Isaiah, as many people have said over the years,

1222
01:14:28,359 --> 01:14:31,680
it's the Fifth Gospel. There's so many things about Christ

1223
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:35,840
just in the Book of Isaiah, from chapter two all

1224
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:37,960
the way to chapter to the very end, right to

1225
01:14:38,199 --> 01:14:43,079
sixty five sixty six. But here, for example, is just

1226
01:14:43,199 --> 01:14:45,640
one page, and people can screenshot this they want to.

1227
01:14:46,119 --> 01:14:49,720
Just a list of Messianic prophecies up here and then

1228
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:54,119
passages down here that relate to the Gentile Church. So

1229
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:56,279
if you want to screenshot that, if you can zoom in,

1230
01:14:56,319 --> 01:14:57,800
I don't know, mney I'll be able to see it.

1231
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,800
But here's a whole list people want that, And then

1232
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,560
I've got another list in the Bible. In my Bible,

1233
01:15:05,359 --> 01:15:07,920
this one might be really hard to see, but because

1234
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,399
I'm always adding new ones, because I'm discovering these all

1235
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,000
the time. But this is this is references to the

1236
01:15:13,079 --> 01:15:16,800
Gentile Church, and by extension, these are also all references

1237
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:20,920
and predictions of the Messiah and the Messianic Age. So

1238
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:24,319
if you drop those down, and if you want to

1239
01:15:24,319 --> 01:15:26,640
look all those up, there's tons of them in the Psalms,

1240
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:29,720
tons of them in Isaiah, tons of them in the

1241
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,079
you know, the minor prophets. You can go from there

1242
01:15:33,119 --> 01:15:36,680
and you'll see, you know, look, this is not like Again,

1243
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,239
I think a lot of people that aren't familiar with

1244
01:15:38,279 --> 01:15:41,479
the Old Testament they think of this like, oh, they've

1245
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,199
you know, Christians, they've got like one or two passages

1246
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:47,000
that they have to really squeeze into being Jesus. No, no, no,

1247
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,319
there's there's hundreds, right. Yeah.

1248
01:15:51,359 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 2: So again this is kind of the What we've just

1249
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,640
did is provide basically the contours of this deconstructioning my

1250
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,119
Christian you NEI, they're basic what tends to be the

1251
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:06,760
main themes of their arguments, using rabbinic lines of argument

1252
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,039
in regards to Christ not fulfilling it or the Orthodox

1253
01:16:10,119 --> 01:16:13,800
Church not fulfilling its role as the New Israel, a theodicy,

1254
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,119
that big sky Daddy is so mean, and look at

1255
01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:19,920
all these injustices in the Old Testament questioning the Holy

1256
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:24,760
Trinity and the divinity of Christ, and then obviously from there,

1257
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:30,199
questioning Christ's status as the Messiah. So we basically were

1258
01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:34,800
now an hour and fifteen sixteen in, we've covered basically

1259
01:16:35,119 --> 01:16:38,479
the arguments that we're going to see and if there's

1260
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:40,399
anything else you want to say before we kind of

1261
01:16:40,399 --> 01:16:42,880
pull up some of this nonsense and have have have

1262
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,039
some laughs. I think that's what everybody's waiting for.

1263
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:47,640
Speaker 3: No Ready, you can go on.

1264
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 2: So here is This is one lady that's really prominent

1265
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:56,760
on TikTok. Her name's no Nonsense Spirituality and as you

1266
01:16:56,760 --> 01:16:59,159
can see here, I just pulled up her most popular tiktoks.

1267
01:16:59,159 --> 01:17:02,319
We're talking about three point five million, one point six million,

1268
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,359
two point eight million, one point eight million, six point

1269
01:17:05,399 --> 01:17:10,079
seven million. She gets massive views and engagement two point

1270
01:17:10,079 --> 01:17:13,399
three million down here on these tiktoks where she believes that.

1271
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:18,359
So she's a spiritual director and nihilism coach specializing in

1272
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:26,800
tools of the void. And Dan McClellan he's the other

1273
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,039
one that he will make sure to tell you. He's

1274
01:17:29,079 --> 01:17:32,079
a biblical scholar and he's actually a progressive Mormon. We

1275
01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:35,159
talked a little bit about him over on Jay's stream,

1276
01:17:35,680 --> 01:17:39,920
and you pull up his instagram as as Jay Highlight

1277
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:42,720
last time, every single and this was just posted five

1278
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:48,239
hours ago. He lifts up his super or his action

1279
01:17:48,399 --> 01:17:52,760
figures superhero t shirts and he has funkal pops. There's

1280
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,720
videos on his YouTube where you can see he has

1281
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,479
a whole thing of Funko pops behind him. And he

1282
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:02,399
is a progressive. He is pretty soft on you know,

1283
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:05,760
sexual immorality and stuff like that, and what he doesn't

1284
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,439
tell you, and he doesn't show anywhere. But if you

1285
01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:11,840
dig deep enough, you'll find he is a Mormon, Christian,

1286
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,640
or not even Christian, a Mormon and presents himself as

1287
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:20,399
an expert on christiananity because of his academic scholastic abilities

1288
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,199
and deconstructing the Old Testament and the New Testament. So

1289
01:18:23,239 --> 01:18:26,600
he presents himself as some type of ultimate Christian scholar

1290
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,760
when he himself is some progressive Mormon.

1291
01:18:31,039 --> 01:18:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really weird. I mean, and I've been seeing

1292
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,319
a lot more Mormon stuff popping up very lately, and

1293
01:18:37,359 --> 01:18:40,520
I've been seeing more and more interactions with Mormons. I

1294
01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:44,479
had last few open debates, I've had a multiple Mormons

1295
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:47,960
calling in. So, you know, it's just weird to see,

1296
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:51,720
you know, the push via the Tait Sneako sphere Islam

1297
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:55,359
suddenly everywhere. Now, Mormonism is everywhere through TikTok. So I

1298
01:18:55,359 --> 01:18:56,960
think TikTok's playing a key role in this.

1299
01:18:57,319 --> 01:19:00,920
Speaker 2: No, I definitely agree with that. And over on TikTok,

1300
01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:02,920
there's another guy and he has a YouTube channel. It's

1301
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:05,319
not very big, it's not even four thousand subs. It's

1302
01:19:05,319 --> 01:19:08,800
called the Deconstruction Zone. And if you go to his TikTok,

1303
01:19:10,359 --> 01:19:13,600
he I mean he gets pretty good videos in regards

1304
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,000
to the views. I'm not saying they're quality videos, but

1305
01:19:16,199 --> 01:19:19,439
I mean thousands of views here two hundred and twenty

1306
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,960
five thousand, seven hundred and eight thousand, and so Ac

1307
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:25,319
mentioned that he's kind of a prominent voice in here,

1308
01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:28,720
so we may watch a few of his and he

1309
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,880
has put together this playlist that I guess is pretty

1310
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,199
popular on TikTok in regards to people referencing prophecy fails

1311
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,319
and so like this one is Isaiah seven fourteen, a

1312
01:19:40,399 --> 01:19:43,840
prophecy fulfilled by Jesus. So we can check that one

1313
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,239
out if we want to start with just some of these,

1314
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:55,239
come on.

1315
01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 6: Is the property of Isaiah seven fourteen, about the young

1316
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:09,479
woman conceiving and bearing a child, about Jesus or about

1317
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,399
the time of a has It says again the Lord

1318
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,920
spoke to AHAs asked the Lord your god for a sign,

1319
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:16,600
whether in the.

1320
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 3: Deepest steps or the highest heights.

1321
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 7: But Ah has said, I will not ask, I will

1322
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:24,800
not put the Lord to the test. Then Isaiah said, here,

1323
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,319
now you house of David is it not enough to

1324
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:31,359
try the patience of humans. Will you try the patience

1325
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,439
of God? Also, therefore, the Lord himself will give you

1326
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:38,640
a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to

1327
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:43,640
his son and will call him Emmanuel. Okay, this is

1328
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:46,880
clearly a sign for a has. There is a woman

1329
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,840
who is going to conceive. Whether it's he's a virgin

1330
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,800
or a young woman, the translation of that particular word

1331
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,359
is irrelevant in this particular argument. This has nothing to

1332
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,159
do with a future Messiah and everything to do with

1333
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:03,039
a sign specifically given to King ah Has.

1334
01:21:03,159 --> 01:21:04,800
Speaker 8: This is not about Jesus.

1335
01:21:06,119 --> 01:21:09,479
Speaker 3: Well, this is just fundamental ignorance of the way biblical

1336
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:14,399
typology and symbology works. It's not in either or. The

1337
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:17,560
whole idea is that the sign in the day of

1338
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:21,399
Isaiah would also be a sign of the Messiah. This

1339
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,479
is why in the New Testament, for example, you'll read

1340
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,319
the passage I think it's in early on in Matthew

1341
01:21:26,359 --> 01:21:30,760
where it says out of Egypt, right, my son came

1342
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,520
up out of Egypt. Well, there's not actually a pastor

1343
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:38,159
specifically that says that exactly, but it's referring to Israel

1344
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:42,159
as God's son coming up out of Egypt, right, And

1345
01:21:42,199 --> 01:21:45,079
it's making a parallel to the Holy Family coming out

1346
01:21:45,119 --> 01:21:49,800
of Egypt when they fled the persecution. So it's just

1347
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:53,359
ignorance of the way that biblical symbology works, where it

1348
01:21:53,399 --> 01:21:54,920
can be a both and and it doesn't have to

1349
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:56,399
be in either or right.

1350
01:21:57,039 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 2: I love his lisp too. Right, we talked to.

1351
01:22:00,319 --> 01:22:04,319
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, but you'll know, Like, for example, in

1352
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,560
Matthew two, it says, when he arose, this is Joseph.

1353
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,399
When he rose, he took the child and his mother

1354
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:12,520
by nine and the party for Egypt, and he was

1355
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,359
there until the death of Herod, that he might be

1356
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:16,760
that might be fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet

1357
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:21,319
out of Egypt I called my son, right. So that

1358
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,880
if you read Hoseiah eleven to one, it's talking about

1359
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:28,399
Israel being brought out of captivity of the Egyptians. So

1360
01:22:29,359 --> 01:22:33,720
this is telling us the New Testament apostolic hermeneutic does

1361
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,119
not restrict these types of references to what's called the

1362
01:22:37,159 --> 01:22:43,000
grammatical historical interpretation. So and not. The irony is that

1363
01:22:43,039 --> 01:22:46,399
these people pull from Jews, But Jews don't even restrict

1364
01:22:46,439 --> 01:22:48,960
all readings to grammatical historical Do you know what I

1365
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,800
mean by grammatical historical, right, that's the immediate sense of

1366
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:57,159
the text and the immediate reference and context and audience.

1367
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,560
So who is Isaiah talking to? Who's his immediate audience?

1368
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,680
What's the immediate context? But even Jews believe in what's

1369
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,880
called pardies, P A, R, D, E. S. That's their

1370
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,800
four senses of the text. So it's not even the

1371
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:15,119
jew judaic position to think that there's only the grammatical

1372
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:17,279
historical sense of the text.

1373
01:23:18,039 --> 01:23:22,239
Speaker 2: And it seems like here he then is talking about

1374
01:23:22,279 --> 01:23:25,319
Matthew two fifteen is not a fulfillment of Jose eleven

1375
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:25,640
to one.

1376
01:23:26,399 --> 01:23:28,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my point, is like, it's not if you

1377
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,319
have his assumption of only grammatic exactly.

1378
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 2: That's what I was getting ready to say, is that

1379
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:35,720
you just nailed it, because he's already has a video

1380
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:37,920
right here discussing what you just brought up.

1381
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 3: Now look at this. This is again the irony. Uh,

1382
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,640
I'm gonna give you, give you a little a link

1383
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:52,439
you can look at here, all right, So this is

1384
01:23:53,359 --> 01:23:57,359
just well known Jewish Jewish exegesus. So if you take

1385
01:23:57,359 --> 01:24:00,600
a look at that right there, it'll show you that

1386
01:24:01,079 --> 01:24:03,800
these people aren't even really being consistent with the way

1387
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,479
Jews exegete their own texts. And that's ironic because both

1388
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:16,039
Jews click the one that's a exe Jesus their method here,

1389
01:24:16,079 --> 01:24:18,520
and it's not just cobblists. Other people do this too.

1390
01:24:19,359 --> 01:24:23,359
Of Pardais, it's a fourfold sense and it's and it's

1391
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:29,880
a Jewish adaptation of the way that Christianity eventually came

1392
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:31,920
up with a fourfold sense of the text. There's a

1393
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,279
literal meaning, there's the allegorical meaning, there's the moral meaning,

1394
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:40,560
there's the eschaological or anagogical meaning. That's our fourth senses

1395
01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:42,800
in the Christian tradition. And this is not just a

1396
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,479
medieval Latin thing. It also exists, say Maximus talks about

1397
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,279
the fourth senses of scripture. So there's nothing foreign to

1398
01:24:49,279 --> 01:24:54,039
to Orthodoxed Christianity with these ideas. But you'll just notice that, well,

1399
01:24:54,079 --> 01:24:55,680
wait a minute, I thought you were if you're going

1400
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:58,600
to use the rabbinic ex of Jesus, the rabbinic ext

1401
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,319
of Jesus is not grammatically historical only, it's not just

1402
01:25:01,359 --> 01:25:07,239
that first sense, right, So they're being arbitrary when they

1403
01:25:07,319 --> 01:25:09,920
when they utilizing these principles.

1404
01:25:10,079 --> 01:25:14,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we'll just click one more in this little playlist.

1405
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:19,439
This one's got the twenty four hundred views here and

1406
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:24,119
this is about This is about Luke one thirty two

1407
01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:28,520
through thirty three. He says failed Bible prophecy. Jesus never

1408
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:30,760
ruled over the house of Israel or Jacob.

1409
01:25:34,039 --> 01:25:35,319
Speaker 8: Bible prophecy fails.

1410
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 3: Episode fourteen.

1411
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 7: This comes straight from the mouth of the angel that

1412
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:41,800
tells Mary she's going to conceive. In Luke chapter one,

1413
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:44,680
it says he shall be great and shall be called

1414
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:47,159
the Son of the Highest, and the Lord God shall

1415
01:25:47,199 --> 01:25:49,680
give on him the throne of his father David, and

1416
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,279
he shall reign over the House of Jacob forever, and

1417
01:25:53,359 --> 01:25:56,680
his kingdom there shall have no end. Now did Jesus

1418
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,199
rule and reign over the house of Jacob forever and

1419
01:25:59,239 --> 01:25:59,880
without end?

1420
01:26:00,199 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 8: No, of course he did not.

1421
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 9: In fact, his own people unlived him, un across and

1422
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:07,600
then mocked him publicly. And of course I know the

1423
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,000
response to this is that, well, Jesus kingdom is not

1424
01:26:10,119 --> 01:26:12,680
of this world. How convenient is it when he doesn't

1425
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:15,279
fulfill the prophecy that, oh he actually did? It is

1426
01:26:15,359 --> 01:26:18,439
just in secret and invisible. Sure, sure it is. Keep

1427
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:19,159
telling yourself that.

1428
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:25,319
Speaker 3: Well, I mean again, that's a question of whose presuppositions

1429
01:26:25,359 --> 01:26:28,640
are correct, because the whole New Testament is premised on

1430
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:31,880
the fact that he did reign over the true House

1431
01:26:32,039 --> 01:26:35,520
of David, the true kingdom, which is even according to

1432
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:38,560
the Old Testament, the people that have the law on

1433
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,600
their hearts Jeremiah thirty one, or I think it's what

1434
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,680
thirty eight Orthodox Bible. So even the Old Testament says

1435
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:49,960
that the only true followers of Yahweh in the Messianic

1436
01:26:50,039 --> 01:26:52,079
era will be the ones that have it in their heart.

1437
01:26:53,239 --> 01:26:56,640
That's what the New Covenant prophecy says, right.

1438
01:26:57,279 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 2: Well, and in our opening we are already addressed basically

1439
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:06,760
these these types of criticisms and this quote mining and

1440
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:11,159
then and then he can't fulfill the Kingdom of Israel

1441
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:14,880
eternally because he was crucified. I mean, what kind of

1442
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:15,760
retarded argument.

1443
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point. I didn't even I didn't

1444
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:20,159
even catch that, right, Like, yeah, ye said, but I

1445
01:27:20,199 --> 01:27:25,039
mean that's assuming he wasn't resurrected, right, right, So yeah,

1446
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:27,640
sit at my right hands. Until I sit in my

1447
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,880
right hands, I'll make your rystal right.

1448
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,199
Speaker 2: So this is a little bit that was just a

1449
01:27:33,279 --> 01:27:37,880
quick introduction to this deconstruction Zone. Apparently he's got some

1450
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,000
got some videos here that I.

1451
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,159
Speaker 3: Mean, let let me give another example where you see

1452
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:47,600
this kind of stuff like So, for example, in Orthodox

1453
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:56,800
Bible Jeremiah thirty seven UH, in its verse eight and nine,

1454
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:00,600
it says, in that day, I will bring the neck

1455
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:04,279
of the chains, and you will no longer work for foreigners.

1456
01:28:05,079 --> 01:28:07,239
You shall work for the Lord your God, and I

1457
01:28:07,279 --> 01:28:12,039
will raise up for them. David, they're king. Now. If

1458
01:28:12,079 --> 01:28:14,680
we were to be silly and absurd the way these

1459
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:19,279
people will operate, that's a prophecy that literally David will

1460
01:28:19,279 --> 01:28:23,399
come back and will rule the Jews. No, No, David

1461
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:28,600
stands for the Massaiah. Right, David and his kingdom are

1462
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:32,399
embodied in his seed, who will forever sit on God.

1463
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:34,520
So that's actually the promise to David and the covenant

1464
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:38,680
is your seed shall be an everlasting kingdom. Will you

1465
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:41,600
will never lack one to rule on the throne because

1466
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,000
it's an eternal seed that's ruling on the throne in heaven. Right.

1467
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 2: I haven't watched this one, but I am very tempted

1468
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:53,039
to click on it. He says the biblical God failed

1469
01:28:53,079 --> 01:28:57,000
anatomy class. I just want to hear what this retard

1470
01:28:57,039 --> 01:28:57,600
has to say.

1471
01:28:59,239 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 10: The God of the Bible could not have pretty human

1472
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:03,359
beings because he does not know how female anatomy works,

1473
01:29:03,359 --> 01:29:05,439
and I can prove it from the Bible. In Deuteronomy

1474
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:08,560
twenty two, God says a legal precedent and says, suppose

1475
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,279
man marries a woman, but after going into her, dislikes

1476
01:29:11,319 --> 01:29:14,359
her and makes up charges against her, slanddering her by saying,

1477
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:16,920
I married this woman, but when I lie with her,

1478
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,079
I do not find evidence of her virginity. The father

1479
01:29:20,199 --> 01:29:22,359
of the young woman and her mother shall submit the

1480
01:29:22,399 --> 01:29:25,079
evidence of the young woman's virginity to the elders at

1481
01:29:25,079 --> 01:29:27,479
the city gate. The first line here is really important

1482
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,640
because it says after going into her, he dislikes her.

1483
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:33,600
This is implying that he's realizing she's not a virgin

1484
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,319
because she didn't lead. And this becomes important as we

1485
01:29:36,399 --> 01:29:39,239
continue reading. In verse seventeen, they bring the evidence, it says,

1486
01:29:39,279 --> 01:29:41,960
but here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity. Then

1487
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,159
they will spread out the cloth before the elders of

1488
01:29:44,239 --> 01:29:46,479
the town. And just so we're tracking here, the sheet

1489
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,720
is placed underneath the couple when they consummate their marriage

1490
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:51,840
and So if she's a virgin, theoretically she would have

1491
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,560
led on the sheet and the parents would have had

1492
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:56,119
proof of her virginity, and they would bring it to

1493
01:29:56,159 --> 01:29:56,880
the elders.

1494
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:57,279
Speaker 3: At the city gate.

1495
01:29:57,640 --> 01:29:59,479
Speaker 10: Now, if it turns out that they produce the evidence

1496
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:01,199
and she was, in fact in virgin, then he'll pay

1497
01:30:01,199 --> 01:30:02,960
the hundred checkholds and then move on with their life.

1498
01:30:03,000 --> 01:30:05,479
But if it turns out that she wasn't a virgin,

1499
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,840
look at what it says. If, however, this charge is true,

1500
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,479
the evidence of the young women's virginity was not found,

1501
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:13,720
then they will bring the young woman out to the

1502
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,239
entrance of her father's house and the men of her

1503
01:30:16,319 --> 01:30:19,479
town will stone her until she's un alive. Now, you

1504
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:21,800
might be thinking that this is a rather harsh punishment

1505
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:24,439
for someone that des flight about their virginity, and I'm

1506
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,560
sure it is, but that's not the real problem here.

1507
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 3: The real problem here is.

1508
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 10: That only forty five percent of women actually believe the

1509
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:33,640
first time they do the deed, which means a little

1510
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,640
bit less than half of these women are actually guilty.

1511
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,880
Upon tribe, over half of these women actually are innocent,

1512
01:30:41,039 --> 01:30:43,439
and they will be stoned. And what that means is

1513
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:46,199
that either God doesn't know how the female anatomy works,

1514
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:48,399
or he's just an absolute monster.

1515
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 2: This is the level. This is the level of deconstruction

1516
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:58,760
and uh, that's going on on TikTok so apparently because

1517
01:30:59,159 --> 01:31:04,840
he claims that forty percent of women don't bleed, that

1518
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,880
this proves that the God of the Old Testament isn't

1519
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:10,800
actually God because he doesn't know female anatomy.

1520
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,359
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, isn't there the other passage about there

1521
01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:19,319
was also supposed to be like the woman could drink

1522
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:24,279
a potion to see if the child was hers. In

1523
01:31:24,359 --> 01:31:27,640
other words, there might be a supernatural element involved in

1524
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,920
this too that would help them to identify this. Do

1525
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:33,800
you know the past that I'm talking about were I

1526
01:31:34,279 --> 01:31:37,920
know the and she lies about who the father is.

1527
01:31:38,079 --> 01:31:42,359
They can drink this drink and if if the child lives,

1528
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:49,640
then it was presumably not an illicit birth. But I mean,

1529
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,720
I don't understand why, like there could be there could

1530
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,880
be if we believe in the supernatural, there could be

1531
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:00,239
a supernatural element to this, which is identifying you know,

1532
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:05,199
the the legitimate virginity through through the blood or not.

1533
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:12,079
Speaker 2: Right, well, and even we have no idea the effects

1534
01:32:12,359 --> 01:32:16,840
of you know, for example, using tampons that insert into

1535
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,199
the vagina when modern day women are having sex, and

1536
01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:24,000
he's making that case that they don't bleed to reference

1537
01:32:24,039 --> 01:32:26,560
something in the Bible. We don't know the context of

1538
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:31,039
how that potentially affects women, just using a sort of scientific,

1539
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,319
more materialistic approach on how times are different. But to

1540
01:32:35,359 --> 01:32:38,680
your point, we also don't know the spiritual elements and

1541
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,720
how these decisions were made. But this is this is

1542
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,760
something that has seven and fourteen likes on TikTok and

1543
01:32:47,039 --> 01:32:49,600
over eighty thousand views.

1544
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:53,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a really good commentary on Deuteronomy from

1545
01:32:53,439 --> 01:32:56,279
I think as Gordon Wynham. He does, and he does

1546
01:32:56,319 --> 01:32:59,760
a really good job of going into explanation of a

1547
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,960
lot of these passages. He's a famous Old Testament scholar.

1548
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:05,520
I don't have it with me, though I wish I did,

1549
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:07,239
because it would be good to see what he says

1550
01:33:07,279 --> 01:33:10,000
on this passage. But it's at the other house. So

1551
01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:11,560
off the top of my head, I'm not sure this

1552
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,399
one I've not looked at. So this is this is

1553
01:33:13,479 --> 01:33:14,680
one I haven't really looked into.

1554
01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:20,720
Speaker 2: So here's the I showed Jay this earlier, this actual

1555
01:33:21,039 --> 01:33:25,239
TikTok leaving faith she has twenty three thousand followers, and

1556
01:33:25,279 --> 01:33:30,319
she had some pretty big TikTok's going on. Well, apparently

1557
01:33:30,399 --> 01:33:32,960
she was getting criticism or something because she has now

1558
01:33:33,079 --> 01:33:37,159
privatized her TikTok. So I had all these ready to

1559
01:33:37,199 --> 01:33:40,640
go for today. It was just live a few days ago,

1560
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:42,760
and now she's privated her account. So maybe she was

1561
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:47,279
getting pushed back and felt some heat. But I wanted

1562
01:33:47,279 --> 01:33:50,439
to play a few of these because these are so popular.

1563
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:55,239
This woman's TikTok is quite big, so I want to play.

1564
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:01,359
Let's see she doesn't. Not all of them are specifically

1565
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:10,119
regarding Christianity. Let me see deconstruction. Here we go.

1566
01:34:10,199 --> 01:34:15,319
Speaker 4: Christianity ways that I am immortal and better than the

1567
01:34:15,399 --> 01:34:16,119
Christian God.

1568
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:20,119
Speaker 11: When someone wrongs me and is sorry, I don't require

1569
01:34:20,239 --> 01:34:25,039
additional violence or additional scapegoating in order for me to

1570
01:34:25,079 --> 01:34:29,279
say you are forgiven. I've never thrown a temper tantrum

1571
01:34:29,319 --> 01:34:34,439
and flooded the earth. I've never killed Egyptian baby boys.

1572
01:34:35,039 --> 01:34:37,279
If I were a creator, I would have a better

1573
01:34:37,359 --> 01:34:40,399
track record than ninety nine percent of all species on

1574
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:44,439
Earth going extinct. If I were a creator, I would

1575
01:34:44,479 --> 01:34:47,640
not have created the parasite that lives solely to climb

1576
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:51,800
into the eyes of children. If I were a benevolent

1577
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:54,239
god and humans had been on the earth for two

1578
01:34:54,399 --> 01:34:58,760
hundred and fifty thousand years, living in superstition, in suffering,

1579
01:34:59,359 --> 01:35:02,119
dying at the ab of like thirty five, on the

1580
01:35:02,279 --> 01:35:05,520
edge of extinction sometimes and living like this for two

1581
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,960
hundred and fifty thousand years, I would not have sat

1582
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:12,279
silent during all of that time while humans were guessing

1583
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:15,800
why volcanoes were happening or why the sun came up

1584
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:19,439
in the morning, and then after about two hundred and

1585
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,920
forty five thousand years, said you know what, maybe I'll

1586
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:26,199
send some prophets, or maybe I'll send a Jesus or

1587
01:35:26,239 --> 01:35:28,319
a Buddha to kind of come help with this.

1588
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:29,680
Speaker 8: But for two.

1589
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:33,760
Speaker 12: Hundred and almost fifty thousand years been silent and just

1590
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,079
watched human suffer at the edge of extinction.

1591
01:35:37,359 --> 01:35:43,760
Speaker 3: If I were I would not I'm like Geico Caveman. Well,

1592
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:46,760
so the like the Hiltdown Man and all this kind

1593
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:49,520
of stuff. Well, the funny thing is that Hiltdown Man

1594
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:54,119
Nebraska Man are famous frauds. So it makes you get

1595
01:35:54,119 --> 01:35:56,680
to know where does she get the idea that there

1596
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:59,479
was like, you know, a quarter of a million years

1597
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:02,840
of of cavemen. By the way, where's all the fossils

1598
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:06,640
for this? You know, basically zillions of cavemen?

1599
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 2: Well, and none of it was an actual argument. It's

1600
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:15,239
just like rhetorical musings and saying, well if I was this, Well,

1601
01:36:15,399 --> 01:36:18,840
first of all, the timeline people who actually believe in

1602
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,680
scripture don't believe that we've been here for two hundred

1603
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:24,279
and fifty some thousand years or whatever, and this whole thing.

1604
01:36:24,319 --> 01:36:28,119
And I have a friend who, let's just say, is

1605
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:32,960
a scientist, experimental physicist and works for very important places

1606
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,119
like NASA, and he's an orthodox Christian. He highlights how

1607
01:36:37,039 --> 01:36:41,039
all this scientific worldview of the Big Bang and cosmology

1608
01:36:41,119 --> 01:36:43,920
it's all built on models on top of models on

1609
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,840
top of models, and that experimental physics, which what is

1610
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:51,279
what he does. Yeah, half life is true, radiocarbon dating

1611
01:36:51,359 --> 01:36:54,079
is real. But beyond this, these extrapolations that they cave

1612
01:36:54,359 --> 01:36:57,800
are total fictions. And his whole point, the reason why

1613
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,439
he does his job for the government is really to

1614
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:03,800
undermine theories and do experimental physics to try to bring

1615
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:06,920
them back to some sort of baseline reality. And we

1616
01:37:07,079 --> 01:37:10,720
talked about creation and the more according to him, the

1617
01:37:10,760 --> 01:37:13,439
more he does experimental physics, and when you look at

1618
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:17,199
the history of great physicists, they're all theists. And he

1619
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:20,000
he says, there's no there's no problem in his worldview

1620
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:24,800
with creationism and his experience, his understanding of experimental physics,

1621
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:27,359
and all the works that he does. Right, So this

1622
01:37:27,479 --> 01:37:30,960
whole thing is just rhetoric. It's not even actual arguments,

1623
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,119
and it's sad to see how influential this stuff is.

1624
01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:37,680
Speaker 3: Well, another thing too, is like sometimes the expectation is

1625
01:37:39,279 --> 01:37:42,399
impossible for any worldview. So if the expectation is that

1626
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,479
the Christian worldview gives you exhaustive answers to every problem,

1627
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:50,359
there's no worldview that can do that. And the Christian

1628
01:37:50,399 --> 01:37:54,319
worldview doesn't propose to give you that. He proposes to

1629
01:37:54,359 --> 01:37:57,279
give you a basis for how you can have knowledge,

1630
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,479
how you can have justified true belief, etc. Terms of

1631
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,800
a paradigm, but there's no promise. So there's no basis

1632
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:08,680
for you know, everything being you know explained exhaustively. No,

1633
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:10,279
and no worldview can do that. So a lot of

1634
01:38:10,319 --> 01:38:14,039
times you'll notice atheists will have unrealistic expectations for the

1635
01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:18,119
Christian paradigm. But to have no expectations for their paradigm

1636
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:21,439
or others, right and yeah, like jam saying here like, well,

1637
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:23,399
wait a minute, so it's wrong to kill babies. I

1638
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:24,960
bet you're your pro choice.

1639
01:38:26,159 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 2: Exactly. I already know that she is, which highlights again

1640
01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:33,880
the point that it really needs people aren't philosophers, but

1641
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:39,520
deconstructionism itself is a contradicting philosophical disposition, and these people

1642
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,439
constantly contradict themselves. But the point is to really the

1643
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:45,760
way that we steal man these people at the opening

1644
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:48,359
of the stream is so much better than their actual

1645
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:52,640
presentations on TikTok. I mean, this stuff is really low tier.

1646
01:38:55,159 --> 01:39:01,359
And so just like this one has seventy thousand views. Oh,

1647
01:39:01,399 --> 01:39:05,399
this one's deconstructing patriarchy. Oh well, she's an ex Mormon

1648
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:08,520
right here she says Mormonism, ex Mormon, ex Christian.

1649
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:10,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you notice a lot of these are people

1650
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:13,159
who are in these weird heretical sects. Can you do

1651
01:39:13,239 --> 01:39:14,079
the patriarchy one?

1652
01:39:14,119 --> 01:39:18,439
Speaker 2: I'd like, yeah, yeah, this.

1653
01:39:18,399 --> 01:39:20,319
Speaker 4: Is still a little bit wrong. But I just got

1654
01:39:20,359 --> 01:39:23,479
off with a client who's recovering from religion, and usually

1655
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:25,600
in a client it's not about me at all. It's

1656
01:39:25,680 --> 01:39:27,960
not about my feelings, my story, any of that. I'm

1657
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:32,239
totally focused on the other person. But today I wept

1658
01:39:32,319 --> 01:39:35,680
with her, And looking back, it may have been appropriate

1659
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:38,279
in the moment, it may not have been. It may

1660
01:39:38,359 --> 01:39:40,399
have been a little bit too much of me showing

1661
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:44,000
up in the session. But it's because she's not on

1662
01:39:44,079 --> 01:39:48,279
here on TikTok at twenty years old, deconstructing patriarchy with

1663
01:39:48,319 --> 01:39:52,880
her best friends. She's sixty with eight kids and realizing

1664
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:55,760
now for the first time that she was sold alive.

1665
01:39:57,119 --> 01:39:59,920
She was told that the only value she has would

1666
01:39:59,920 --> 01:40:02,680
be in the service that she gives to others, especially

1667
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,359
her husband and her children. And what kills me is

1668
01:40:06,359 --> 01:40:08,560
that by the time that she knew that she had

1669
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:11,399
value and she had a voice, and she deserves to

1670
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:14,560
have passions and opinions, and she deserves to have autonomy

1671
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:18,079
over her own body, her life was mostly over.

1672
01:40:20,880 --> 01:40:25,279
Speaker 3: Is always these positions like that, like you have to

1673
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:28,560
respect my autonomy and my body, and I have value

1674
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:30,319
and I have meaning? No, you don't, not in the

1675
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:35,880
meaningless universe, right And who are you to tell me

1676
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:38,279
I have to respect? Are you a dogmatist? Now you're

1677
01:40:38,279 --> 01:40:40,680
tell me I have to respect your body and your

1678
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:42,279
values and your identity. Why.

1679
01:40:43,159 --> 01:40:45,600
Speaker 2: Well, and imagine talking to a woman who's sixty years

1680
01:40:45,640 --> 01:40:49,319
old with eight children and crying because she just realized

1681
01:40:49,319 --> 01:40:52,640
that she has more more worth than serving her husband

1682
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:55,319
and children. Which I mean, what, what exactly is there

1683
01:40:55,399 --> 01:40:58,560
that's more beautiful and more important than your family? So

1684
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:00,680
I mean what, I guess what.

1685
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:05,399
Speaker 3: Didn't get her? Eat, prey, love, adventure in India or whatever?

1686
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, the the romantic passionate sex with the guru.

1687
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:16,119
Speaker 3: I would preached my sheet inside of your.

1688
01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:23,840
Speaker 2: Like exactly. Yeah, she wasn't rolling in his bins? Right,

1689
01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:30,000
Oh my god? All right, let's uh so we kind

1690
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,199
of get a feel for this woman. It's typical progressive babble.

1691
01:41:34,079 --> 01:41:38,239
This one's Christian Christianity, Jesus Bible, Christian talk.

1692
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:41,680
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting that that's that's the other guy's a

1693
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:44,960
Mormon and she's an ex Mormon. Yeah, progressive Mormon.

1694
01:41:45,039 --> 01:41:47,399
Speaker 2: She's a Mormon, clearly a progressive too.

1695
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:50,359
Speaker 3: Where's all this more? This Mormon stuff is weird, man,

1696
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:52,119
and it's suddenly everywhere.

1697
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:57,239
Speaker 2: Let's just you know, another thing.

1698
01:41:57,159 --> 01:42:00,600
Speaker 3: That's that it's contributing to this Mormon stuff is I

1699
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:02,479
didn't know this because I don't keep up with his domain.

1700
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:04,800
But Jamie was telling me about like two of the

1701
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:10,199
biggest TikTok models, Nara and then I forget the name

1702
01:42:10,199 --> 01:42:12,640
of the other one. But are you familiar with these people?

1703
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:13,239
Have you heard of them?

1704
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 12: No?

1705
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:19,319
Speaker 3: Come here, I can't hear you. Ballerina Farms and Nara

1706
01:42:19,359 --> 01:42:23,720
are like the two they're like the supermodels of today, right, So,

1707
01:42:23,880 --> 01:42:27,000
like if you think about nineties supermodels like Naomi Campbell

1708
01:42:27,079 --> 01:42:27,680
and Chris.

1709
01:42:28,000 --> 01:42:29,960
Speaker 2: You know, Heidi Klumb or something.

1710
01:42:30,239 --> 01:42:35,199
Speaker 3: Clue. Yeah, so like today nowadays, it's the TikTokers Ballerina

1711
01:42:35,279 --> 01:42:40,039
Farms and Nara, and they're both Mormon. So I'm serious,

1712
01:42:40,119 --> 01:42:43,720
but you're laughing about like this is the way people

1713
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:47,319
are getting into Mormonism? Is this kind of stuff? Well?

1714
01:42:47,359 --> 01:42:50,680
I mean, or like the tats are getting people into Islam,

1715
01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:51,319
they're being in.

1716
01:42:52,399 --> 01:42:55,000
Speaker 2: Well, but in TikTok is a cesspool. I mean, as

1717
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,159
you were, you were live before there like insanely and

1718
01:42:58,239 --> 01:43:01,880
it was the dumbest I mean, the dumbest people making that.

1719
01:43:02,119 --> 01:43:05,479
I mean, it was retarded, it was people. I mean

1720
01:43:06,279 --> 01:43:11,880
just one guy was threatening you with basically romantic advances.

1721
01:43:12,079 --> 01:43:14,479
I mean, it's retarded. It was the lowest. I mean,

1722
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,439
at least when you hold your X spaces. Yeah, there's

1723
01:43:17,479 --> 01:43:20,159
some retards in there, but it's it's certainly higher.

1724
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:23,159
Speaker 3: Qualities higher here than they're for sure.

1725
01:43:24,199 --> 01:43:28,039
Speaker 2: But I just for shits and giggles, I just want

1726
01:43:28,079 --> 01:43:34,039
to click on this one as it's specifically on Christianity.

1727
01:43:34,119 --> 01:43:36,520
Speaker 12: Here's how I think a real Christian would respond to

1728
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:37,159
someone like me.

1729
01:43:38,039 --> 01:43:38,159
Speaker 2: Hi.

1730
01:43:38,159 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 4: I am Britt Hartley.

1731
01:43:39,159 --> 01:43:42,479
Speaker 12: I'm an atheist, spiritual director and deconstruction coach. I have

1732
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:45,239
a master's degree in theology, and I produce a lot

1733
01:43:45,239 --> 01:43:48,319
of content on here about no nonsense spirituality. I got

1734
01:43:48,439 --> 01:43:52,039
one comment last week of the hundreds of thousands of

1735
01:43:52,079 --> 01:43:54,800
comments that I get from Christians on this app where

1736
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:57,560
I actually had to sit back and say, Wow, here

1737
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:01,520
is someone who answered how I would imagine a real

1738
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:05,720
follower of Jesus would respond to someone like me, Because

1739
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:08,399
most of the time I get comments about enjoy being

1740
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:12,199
raped in hell, which is like it was your God

1741
01:44:12,239 --> 01:44:14,039
that set up that system, So that's more of a

1742
01:44:14,079 --> 01:44:16,920
dig on you. I get comments about your ignorant.

1743
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:21,880
Speaker 3: And you'll understand that's why you're gettingments.

1744
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:23,720
Speaker 12: And every will bow and every tongue will confess like

1745
01:44:23,760 --> 01:44:26,520
they just can't wait for this dictatorship. I get comments

1746
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:29,079
about enjoy being tortured forever, which is not something I

1747
01:44:29,079 --> 01:44:32,279
would even wish on my worst enemy, because eternal torment

1748
01:44:32,640 --> 01:44:36,560
for finite crimes is immoral. All kinds of condescending and

1749
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:39,239
violent comments. You can three through my comments section to

1750
01:44:39,279 --> 01:44:42,640
see the worst of them. But if I were, and again,

1751
01:44:42,680 --> 01:44:44,359
how is this my job? But if I were a

1752
01:44:44,399 --> 01:44:48,039
real follower of Jesus, the character that he had, this

1753
01:44:48,119 --> 01:44:50,640
is how I think he would respond to videos about

1754
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:56,119
religious deconstruction and about criticisms of Christianity. I think someone

1755
01:44:56,119 --> 01:44:59,359
would say, I am so sorry that the Christian Church

1756
01:44:59,399 --> 01:45:01,560
has hurt you so much. I know that the Christian

1757
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:04,520
community can sometimes act not christ Well, you.

1758
01:45:04,479 --> 01:45:07,760
Speaker 3: Know what's interesting about hers that's different than McLellan's is

1759
01:45:09,039 --> 01:45:13,199
his is kind of low tier, sort of pseudo intellectual approach.

1760
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:17,199
Hers is all emotion and feelies, right, and that's why

1761
01:45:17,239 --> 01:45:19,279
the women are resonating with it, right.

1762
01:45:19,399 --> 01:45:22,399
Speaker 2: Well, and both are Mormons. Again, her talking about how

1763
01:45:22,399 --> 01:45:26,119
the Christian community, I mean, what Christian community were you in?

1764
01:45:25,880 --> 01:45:31,000
You're in a Mormon, cul crazy heterodox thing. Yeah, yeah,

1765
01:45:31,039 --> 01:45:34,359
but You're right. Everything that she says is all emotionalism.

1766
01:45:35,039 --> 01:45:37,399
She doesn't actually make arguments.

1767
01:45:38,439 --> 01:45:41,199
Speaker 12: And that's our fault. Refer to kind of beam in

1768
01:45:41,239 --> 01:45:44,119
the eye scriptures there. I am sorry that you lost

1769
01:45:44,159 --> 01:45:47,760
everything when you left your religious community. Jesus always mourned

1770
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:50,119
with those that mourn, and I really really wish someone

1771
01:45:50,159 --> 01:45:52,479
would have been there for you in your darkest hour

1772
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:56,439
rather than rejecting you and making you go through that alone.

1773
01:45:56,479 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 4: That sounds really hard.

1774
01:45:58,119 --> 01:46:00,439
Speaker 12: I understand that your moral compass has led you out

1775
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:02,319
of this faith community, and I see that as very

1776
01:46:02,319 --> 01:46:04,479
brave of you. There are prophits of old who spoke

1777
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:07,520
truth to power and who were exiled into the wilderness

1778
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:10,359
or stone, and we need your voice to help curb

1779
01:46:10,399 --> 01:46:13,560
the excesses of the institution, which is what Jesus did.

1780
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,000
And I think some of your criticisms are really fair.

1781
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,479
I appreciate your content. They help me to understand the

1782
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:23,399
deconstruction community better and how not everyone experiences God's love

1783
01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:25,920
in God's churches. They help me know what I can

1784
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:28,000
do as someone in the church to make it better

1785
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:28,479
for people.

1786
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:33,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm done with this video. This is boring, but

1787
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:36,760
like you said, it's all emotionalism. I mean, this is

1788
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:39,640
low level.

1789
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:43,640
Speaker 3: I think you know, one of the bad parts about

1790
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:48,159
heresy that people misunderstand. It's not just that heresy is

1791
01:46:48,199 --> 01:46:51,840
wrong and it gets things wrong, but heresy has the

1792
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:57,279
tendency to produce these types of people, these types of reactions.

1793
01:46:57,319 --> 01:47:01,399
It leads to it's an atheism factory, right, is that

1794
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:03,640
it's it's not just that it doesn't have the healing

1795
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:06,039
you know of the nouisance and all that, because there's

1796
01:47:06,079 --> 01:47:08,359
other sacraments and all that. But that's true, but it

1797
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:10,720
also has these offspring. It's like it gives birth to

1798
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,199
these hydra that creates, It creates monsters.

1799
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 2: It's a Medusa for sure. Uh Ac just said no nonsense.

1800
01:47:19,039 --> 01:47:22,239
Spirituality has Funko pops. Doesn't she know they're a tool

1801
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:25,119
of the patriarchy. Yeah, she also has Funko pops in

1802
01:47:25,159 --> 01:47:28,079
the background. You can see like right here at the

1803
01:47:28,279 --> 01:47:31,239
at the top right. So another commonality.

1804
01:47:31,359 --> 01:47:35,000
Speaker 3: Well, McLellan's all about marble crop right.

1805
01:47:35,039 --> 01:47:37,159
Speaker 2: Well, and he and and video, Well, we can look

1806
01:47:37,199 --> 01:47:39,880
at the YouTube. In the wider angle of his video

1807
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:42,399
is not the vertical camera. You can see funkl pops

1808
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:46,199
in the back as well. I mean it as you

1809
01:47:46,319 --> 01:47:48,760
as you mentioned in the first part that we did

1810
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:49,479
on this topic.

1811
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:50,399
Speaker 3: It's the item.

1812
01:47:51,319 --> 01:47:55,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, the iconography plays itself out over and over and over,

1813
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:59,920
which is astounding. Anyways, let's move on from this chick

1814
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:02,279
he kind of just focused on. The last one is

1815
01:48:02,840 --> 01:48:05,479
Dan McClellan. Now he has a YouTube channel and he's

1816
01:48:05,479 --> 01:48:10,199
got seventy one thousand subscribers. We can watch one of

1817
01:48:10,199 --> 01:48:12,720
these videos if any one of the topics kind of

1818
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:16,079
peauk your interest, or we can check out his instagram

1819
01:48:16,119 --> 01:48:18,560
where he's got two hundred thousand files.

1820
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:21,319
Speaker 3: Instagram is all Marvel cinematic.

1821
01:48:21,520 --> 01:48:26,399
Speaker 2: I mean, look at it. Spider spider Punk, do Justice

1822
01:48:26,520 --> 01:48:27,119
Love Mercy?

1823
01:48:27,399 --> 01:48:29,239
Speaker 3: Looks like how old of this guy? It's like this

1824
01:48:29,319 --> 01:48:31,920
guy's like thirteen or is he thirteen? Or is a

1825
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:32,479
grown man?

1826
01:48:34,039 --> 01:48:37,600
Speaker 2: Uh? He looks like he's definitely in the latter forties.

1827
01:48:38,239 --> 01:48:40,399
Speaker 3: Do you see, by the way, a woman with him

1828
01:48:40,399 --> 01:48:43,520
and these pictures because never Yeah, the way he talked

1829
01:48:43,600 --> 01:48:45,960
was a little uh.

1830
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:49,359
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is swinging

1831
01:48:49,399 --> 01:48:52,239
for the other team. Put it. Put it one way,

1832
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:56,880
he's an X man. Yeah, Well, this one he just

1833
01:48:56,920 --> 01:48:59,600
posted today. Let's check it out, I have no longer man.

1834
01:48:59,640 --> 01:49:00,439
Speaker 3: He's an x man.

1835
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:04,880
Speaker 8: There are a contradiction in the Bible regarding how much

1836
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:08,640
King David paid for the threshing floor where he built

1837
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,079
an altar too ad on nine. Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

1838
01:49:12,079 --> 01:49:14,359
I'm a scholar of the Bible and religion. Let's take

1839
01:49:14,359 --> 01:49:15,119
a look at a video.

1840
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:18,319
Speaker 13: In Second Samuel twenty four to twenty four, David pays

1841
01:49:18,319 --> 01:49:20,960
a man fifty shekels of silver for his threshing floor

1842
01:49:21,000 --> 01:49:23,720
and the oxen. But then in First Chronicles twenty one

1843
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:26,399
to twenty five, it says that David paid this same

1844
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,319
man six hundred sheckles of gold for the place. So

1845
01:49:29,359 --> 01:49:32,239
according to Samuel, David paid only fifty shackles of silver,

1846
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:35,359
but Chronicles said he paid six hundred shekels of gold,

1847
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:37,319
two very different sums of money.

1848
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:41,199
Speaker 8: Readers have recognized this discrepancy between these two accounts for

1849
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,920
thousands of years, and there have been a few different

1850
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,720
ways that they have sought to try to harmonize them. So,

1851
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,800
for instance, in the septuagen the ancient Greek translation of

1852
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:52,520
the Hebrew Bible, they alter the text a little bit.

1853
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,720
In Sewod Samuel twenty four to twenty four, because there

1854
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:58,279
it says David bought the threshing floor and the oxen

1855
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:00,960
for fifty shekels of silver, And if you go look

1856
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:04,159
in the Septuagent, it adds something so that says David

1857
01:50:04,279 --> 01:50:07,840
bought the threshing floor for a price and the oxen

1858
01:50:08,039 --> 01:50:10,479
for fifty shekels of silver, to make it sound like

1859
01:50:10,760 --> 01:50:13,600
the text does not actually identify the price that was

1860
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:17,039
paid for the threshing floor. In the medieval period, we

1861
01:50:17,079 --> 01:50:20,720
have pseudo Rashi who says that the fifty shekels of

1862
01:50:20,760 --> 01:50:23,800
silver is actually the cost for each of the twelve

1863
01:50:23,840 --> 01:50:27,319
tribes of Israel, and fifty times twelve is six hundred

1864
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:29,760
and so you just have to ignore the difference between

1865
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:32,520
the value of silver and gold and you have the

1866
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:33,760
exact same prices.

1867
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:37,760
Speaker 3: I we know creator climing that there is a discrepancy,

1868
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:42,600
maybe the Sebtuo agent translation is right right, because we

1869
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,680
don't know, we don't have access to back when the

1870
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:49,479
Jews were translated what the Jews are translating the subtu

1871
01:50:49,520 --> 01:50:54,800
agent from. And if you read the Woodward book reviewing

1872
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:58,239
the Bible, he actually argues that the Masoretic tax was

1873
01:50:58,279 --> 01:51:02,079
altered because of Christianity, and that the Jews not wanting

1874
01:51:02,199 --> 01:51:04,600
any text to be utilized by Christians, so they would

1875
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:10,560
change really strong Christian used passages to favor a Rabbinic reading.

1876
01:51:12,039 --> 01:51:16,479
So I mean, this just assumes that what masoretic, the

1877
01:51:16,520 --> 01:51:18,600
Mazarati text is the one that's correct. So I mean,

1878
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:20,119
and by the way, a lot of that's like the

1879
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:24,680
history of Protestantism is just defaulting to the Jewish masoretic text.

1880
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:27,159
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1881
01:51:27,159 --> 01:51:28,840
Speaker 2: I want to click on one of these that also

1882
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:31,079
has quite a few views here and see what he says.

1883
01:51:31,119 --> 01:51:34,359
This one's got one hundred and nine thousand on Instagram.

1884
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:36,279
Speaker 8: The prohibition on same sex, and of course that we

1885
01:51:36,319 --> 01:51:40,439
find in Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus twenty is not transferable

1886
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:43,000
to contemporary Christian societies and anything.

1887
01:51:44,319 --> 01:51:45,399
Speaker 2: I knew it, I knew it.

1888
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm sorry to think that he has an

1889
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:50,520
activist agenda because of his proclivities.

1890
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:52,159
Speaker 2: Exactly that we.

1891
01:51:52,119 --> 01:51:56,279
Speaker 8: Find in Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus twenty is not transferable

1892
01:51:56,279 --> 01:52:02,119
to contemporary Christian societies and anything remotely approximated in authoritative way. Hey, everybody,

1893
01:52:02,119 --> 01:52:04,680
I'm Dan McClellan. I'm a scholar of the Bible and religion.

1894
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:08,079
We can consider a bunch of different features of this prohibition. One,

1895
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:12,359
what precisely is being prohibited. It is prohibiting a man

1896
01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:15,239
from taking the insertive role in an active male same

1897
01:52:15,319 --> 01:52:18,960
sex intercourse. You try to transfer that, you're not getting

1898
01:52:19,039 --> 01:52:21,880
the whole package. You're just getting a prohibition on a

1899
01:52:21,880 --> 01:52:24,479
man taking the insertive role in an act of male

1900
01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:27,159
same sex intercourse. This is not when people are going to.

1901
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:31,520
Speaker 3: Tell way of like read like. Well, it only says this,

1902
01:52:32,159 --> 01:52:35,840
So if it's not an insertive role, then it's not

1903
01:52:36,079 --> 01:52:38,159
gay sex. It's not prohibited, you know what I mean?

1904
01:52:38,319 --> 01:52:42,920
Speaker 2: Exactly the oral festivities he has with his friends, that's not.

1905
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:46,720
Speaker 3: That doesn't count because it doesn't sex doesn't say that.

1906
01:52:48,119 --> 01:52:50,119
But this is in the part one with you.

1907
01:52:50,199 --> 01:52:53,640
Speaker 2: That's exactly what we said they were going to do it.

1908
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:58,439
Speaker 8: Twenty thirteen condemns both parties to death. So obviously both

1909
01:52:58,479 --> 01:53:02,560
parties are equally culpable. Well, no, that's actually not accurate,

1910
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:08,079
and that brings up the rationalization for the actual prohibition. See, anciently,

1911
01:53:08,159 --> 01:53:12,039
sex was not an activity that's not a partner mutually

1912
01:53:12,079 --> 01:53:12,680
engaged in.

1913
01:53:12,760 --> 01:53:16,640
Speaker 3: It was a Bible scholar. He doesn't know a word.

1914
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:21,840
Speaker 8: Anciently sex. You haven't had that day.

1915
01:53:22,119 --> 01:53:24,479
Speaker 3: Let me see if I mean I could be wrong.

1916
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:27,279
Speaker 2: I've never heard of it. It doesn't sound like.

1917
01:53:27,239 --> 01:53:30,079
Speaker 3: Actually I am wrong. Apparently anciently is a word.

1918
01:53:30,119 --> 01:53:33,079
Speaker 2: I've never heard that, anciently sex. It sounds like it's

1919
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:36,479
never heard of phrase that way.

1920
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:40,199
Speaker 3: I guess. I guess I just don't know. I don't

1921
01:53:40,239 --> 01:53:48,479
know object to know this domain very well, so I'll

1922
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:49,600
defer to him on ancient.

1923
01:53:51,079 --> 01:53:53,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this was posted about three days ago and

1924
01:53:53,399 --> 01:53:56,039
it's got over one hundred thousand views, so it struck

1925
01:53:56,079 --> 01:53:59,640
a chord with a lot of people. We're this might

1926
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:06,039
be my favorite video of yours yet, And that's saying something, yes, honey, irrelevant.

1927
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:06,640
Speaker 4: Now.

1928
01:54:06,720 --> 01:54:10,439
Speaker 8: What Leviticus twenty is doing is expanding on the penalties

1929
01:54:10,479 --> 01:54:13,199
for the different illicit sexual acts that are prohibited in

1930
01:54:13,319 --> 01:54:17,319
Leviticus eighteen. And in every instance both parties are condemned

1931
01:54:17,359 --> 01:54:20,760
to the same penalty, not because both parties are equally culpable.

1932
01:54:21,439 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 5: They aren't.

1933
01:54:22,359 --> 01:54:25,199
Speaker 8: The animal is put to death in the case of bestiality,

1934
01:54:25,239 --> 01:54:29,760
but their agency and consent was obviously irrelevant. Leviticus is

1935
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:32,920
not commanding the animals to behave in a certain way.

1936
01:54:33,399 --> 01:54:37,319
It's because this illicit sexual act was considered to generate

1937
01:54:37,359 --> 01:54:40,960
a kind of metaphysical contamination that polluted the land and

1938
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:44,159
that could result in the land vomiting the people out.

1939
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:48,359
And this contamination was perceived to be produced because these

1940
01:54:48,399 --> 01:54:53,880
sexual acts violated socially conventionalized boundaries and categories and hierarchies.

1941
01:54:54,119 --> 01:54:57,000
And when it comes to male same sex intercourse, men

1942
01:54:57,000 --> 01:55:01,199
are at the top of the socially conventionalized highhierarchy of domination,

1943
01:55:01,439 --> 01:55:04,680
and so to sexually subordinate and penetrate a man is

1944
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:08,720
to violate that hierarchy and to violate his sexual agency,

1945
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:13,239
turning him into a passive sexual object. And they understood

1946
01:55:13,239 --> 01:55:16,880
that contamination to be purged only through the application of

1947
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:21,640
the same penalty to both involved parties, again, irrespective of

1948
01:55:21,680 --> 01:55:24,399
the agency or the consent. Now that brings us to

1949
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:31,159
the motivation. What's actually underlying these outdated and scientifically inaccurate rationalizations.

1950
01:55:31,319 --> 01:55:36,119
The motivation is the intuitive impulse to seek out sanctity

1951
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:41,479
and purity. This is what cognitive sciences called sexual disgust sensitivity,

1952
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:43,840
and there are a bunch of studies on how this

1953
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:48,520
contributes to opposition to LGBTQ plus identities.

1954
01:55:48,840 --> 01:55:52,880
Speaker 3: And this is now we get to the issue, right.

1955
01:55:53,439 --> 01:55:56,239
Speaker 2: Well, I mean he's got a point. I am disgusted.

1956
01:55:58,520 --> 01:56:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's because you've been trained by these hierarchies

1957
01:56:01,960 --> 01:56:02,880
to feel that true.

1958
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:07,079
Speaker 2: That's true. I've been I've been oppressed and reprogrammed through these.

1959
01:56:08,279 --> 01:56:10,159
Speaker 3: If you need to be re educated, so you need

1960
01:56:10,199 --> 01:56:12,880
to go to re educate a gay re education camp.

1961
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:17,039
But by the way, it's not accidental that, I mean,

1962
01:56:17,079 --> 01:56:18,800
Mormonism is ultimately a sex call.

1963
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:21,279
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1964
01:56:21,319 --> 01:56:24,520
Speaker 3: So again, notice where's he coming out of what's the

1965
01:56:24,600 --> 01:56:25,560
part of Mormonism?

1966
01:56:26,199 --> 01:56:29,399
Speaker 2: Right? And what's what's hilarious is that he hasn't dropped

1967
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:32,000
his Mormon identity, at least on his YouTube channel. His

1968
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:35,840
intro video at the very end of it, he states

1969
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:41,680
that I am a Mormon. So very interesting. That's very interesting.

1970
01:56:43,319 --> 01:56:48,319
Speaker 8: Through education, through interactions with lgbt Q plus people, because

1971
01:56:48,359 --> 01:56:52,319
you learn that there's nothing wrong with them. There, you

1972
01:56:52,439 --> 01:56:55,079
learned that they are perfectly human and that there is

1973
01:56:55,079 --> 01:57:00,640
no contamination being generated by their sexual identity. So what

1974
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:02,199
the actual demination?

1975
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:05,680
Speaker 3: Right? So maybe the land is vomiting people out because

1976
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:11,119
of the demonic contamination, right, so he's making it something

1977
01:57:11,199 --> 01:57:15,039
genetic or physical. No, no, what if it's actually spiritual?

1978
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:18,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think you feels personally attacked here too.

1979
01:57:20,319 --> 01:57:24,560
Speaker 8: Off is not transferable. The rationalization is obviously not transferable.

1980
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:29,319
The motivation, while it is still active today, it's not authoritative.

1981
01:57:29,479 --> 01:57:32,760
You can't say that this needs to be prohibited because

1982
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,800
it gives me the ick. That's not an actual argument.

1983
01:57:36,199 --> 01:57:40,359
The scope is not transferable because Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus

1984
01:57:40,359 --> 01:57:43,039
twenty are addressing members of the House of Israel occupying

1985
01:57:43,039 --> 01:57:45,479
the land of Israel. If you are not a member

1986
01:57:45,479 --> 01:57:47,840
of the House of Israel, if you are not occupying

1987
01:57:48,319 --> 01:57:51,520
the land of Israel, this has nothing to do with you.

1988
01:57:51,600 --> 01:57:54,640
So it is not transferable to contemporary Christians.

1989
01:57:54,680 --> 01:57:59,000
Speaker 3: Well, accept that. In Romans one and then Bull letters

1990
01:57:59,039 --> 01:58:04,720
to Timothy, the scope is universalized to include all cultures

1991
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:06,880
doing this as unnatural right.

1992
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:08,479
Speaker 2: And I want to That's what I was getting ready

1993
01:58:08,479 --> 01:58:10,119
to say. Is I wonder if he makes any reference

1994
01:58:10,159 --> 01:58:13,039
to Romans one and just kind of localizes this argument

1995
01:58:13,079 --> 01:58:14,600
in Leviticus to try to be just.

1996
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:17,079
Speaker 3: Read by the way Leviticus eighteen he says that the

1997
01:58:17,119 --> 01:58:20,800
scope is only for those people, but God says that

1998
01:58:21,079 --> 01:58:24,640
he despises all of the practices of the Pagans pagan

1999
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:28,359
peoples that do these things. Right, So, no, it's not

2000
01:58:28,479 --> 01:58:32,279
just for the Israelites. The very passage Leviticus eighteen says

2001
01:58:32,319 --> 01:58:34,359
for the people who do these things or an abomination,

2002
01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:39,039
talking about the existing Pagans who had taken the land.

2003
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:43,880
Speaker 8: Right in Leviticus eighteen, the punishment is that you will

2004
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:46,720
be cut off. This could mean a lot of different things,

2005
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:50,039
but it's not transferable in an authoritative way to today.

2006
01:58:50,279 --> 01:58:54,720
In Leviticus twenty, it's the death penalty, also non transferable

2007
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:57,920
to Christian societies today. And if you're among those groups

2008
01:58:57,960 --> 01:59:01,239
who are trying to advocate for execute of members of

2009
01:59:01,239 --> 01:59:04,920
the LGBTQ plus community, you need to grow the hell up.

2010
01:59:05,239 --> 01:59:08,680
So none of these prohibitions taking the insertive role in

2011
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:09,439
an active message.

2012
01:59:09,560 --> 01:59:13,840
Speaker 3: That's not an argument. Grow up? How does that tell

2013
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:16,479
me that? So that's uh, how does that tell me

2014
01:59:16,520 --> 01:59:19,760
that my position is wrong? Telling me to grow up?

2015
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:25,159
I mean again, like he didn't actually address the like

2016
01:59:25,359 --> 01:59:28,720
unnatural aspect of it, right, because that's the argumentation that

2017
01:59:31,319 --> 01:59:35,239
Let's say, I'm looking for the text where for all

2018
01:59:35,279 --> 01:59:37,159
these things were done by the people who lived here

2019
01:59:37,199 --> 01:59:40,159
before you, and they defiled this land. It will vomit

2020
01:59:40,199 --> 01:59:44,159
you out these things every listen. This is Leviticus eighteen.

2021
01:59:44,319 --> 01:59:48,520
Everyone who does these things is detestables. Is detestable. So

2022
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:52,359
the argument is not that it's only relative to this land,

2023
01:59:52,399 --> 01:59:54,960
but outside of this land, I don't care if you, like,

2024
01:59:55,079 --> 02:00:00,199
you know, commit pedo actions. And you know again and

2025
02:00:00,239 --> 02:00:05,119
like it says multiple times over that and this is

2026
02:00:05,159 --> 02:00:08,119
another reason, you know, we forgot to mention the flood,

2027
02:00:08,720 --> 02:00:12,199
like this had become universal. That's why there was the flood,

2028
02:00:12,279 --> 02:00:16,720
because that whole stock of people except for Noah and

2029
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:18,800
his family, had become completely wicked.

2030
02:00:19,439 --> 02:00:21,880
Speaker 2: Well, and is dis ingenuous on his part to just

2031
02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:24,720
try to make this argument based on Leviticus eighteen twenty

2032
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:26,920
and then say, well, you know, if you're if you're

2033
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:29,520
advocating for the death penalty, then that is not applicable

2034
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:33,239
to modern day Christian societies, And then and then limiting

2035
02:00:33,319 --> 02:00:36,119
the context of this verse and not including Romans, not

2036
02:00:36,159 --> 02:00:41,520
including the New Testament, not including Christ's description of what

2037
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:45,760
marriage is, he himself is limiting the context to try

2038
02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:48,359
to suit his presuppositions and the point that he's trying

2039
02:00:48,359 --> 02:00:48,880
to make.

2040
02:00:50,439 --> 02:00:53,800
Speaker 8: Are transferable to contemporary Christian society. So why do so

2041
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:57,439
many Christians today continue to appeal so blithely to these

2042
02:00:57,560 --> 02:01:02,119
utterly irrelevant passages from Leviticus. It's because homophobia continues to

2043
02:01:02,199 --> 02:01:06,039
be a central identity marker for a lot of conservative Christians,

2044
02:01:06,119 --> 02:01:07,279
and they are all.

2045
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:11,279
Speaker 3: So progressivism is true. Why is it wrong to be hypocritical?

2046
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:13,960
Why is it wrong to have those kinds of attitudes?

2047
02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:17,159
On what basis is that wrong? He did to provide

2048
02:01:17,159 --> 02:01:17,680
an argument.

2049
02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:19,840
Speaker 8: It doesn't matter.

2050
02:01:19,600 --> 02:01:22,560
Speaker 3: If no progressive can tell you why something is wrong.

2051
02:01:23,359 --> 02:01:26,199
Speaker 8: A vested of its contexts, that they have to ignore

2052
02:01:26,239 --> 02:01:29,680
the actual prohibition, that the rationalization is irrelevant, that the

2053
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:33,439
motivation is not authoritative, that the scope is irrelevant, that

2054
02:01:33,479 --> 02:01:36,960
the punishment is not authoritative. Because all they're looking for

2055
02:01:37,079 --> 02:01:39,039
is a proof text that they can leverage in the

2056
02:01:39,039 --> 02:01:42,479
structuring of power and values and boundaries in the service

2057
02:01:42,520 --> 02:01:45,680
of their right wing authoritarian identity politics. It's all about

2058
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:49,520
identity politics. It's all about power, and unfortunately it is

2059
02:01:49,560 --> 02:01:54,279
increasingly about money, which means the liberty, the humanity, the

2060
02:01:54,439 --> 02:01:58,359
very lives of LGBTQ plus men, women, and children are

2061
02:01:58,399 --> 02:02:02,039
being hurled on to the all a right wing, authoritarian,

2062
02:02:02,279 --> 02:02:05,720
conservative Christian identity politics just so people can have more

2063
02:02:05,800 --> 02:02:09,520
power and money, and that has simply got to stop.

2064
02:02:10,039 --> 02:02:13,279
And the fifth for this video has been Micah six

2065
02:02:13,359 --> 02:02:15,520
' eight the prohibition.

2066
02:02:20,479 --> 02:02:25,800
Speaker 2: Yikes, yikes. Yeah, So I don't know if I if

2067
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:27,920
there's anything in particular you want to watch. I mean,

2068
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:32,840
he has a YouTube channel. Are there any videos here

2069
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:33,720
that you'd like to hear?

2070
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:35,960
Speaker 3: I can't really see the titles? What are some of

2071
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:37,359
the titles of them?

2072
02:02:37,399 --> 02:02:40,720
Speaker 2: This one's five things most Christians don't know about Jesus.

2073
02:02:41,399 --> 02:02:44,000
Why is Matthew seventeen twenty one a minute from most

2074
02:02:44,039 --> 02:02:47,520
modern Bibles about the King James version? We already got his.

2075
02:02:47,680 --> 02:02:50,439
I already watched the cant of personal about Jesus.

2076
02:02:50,439 --> 02:02:51,159
Speaker 3: That sounds like right.

2077
02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:55,479
Speaker 5: Five things most Christians don't know about Jesus.

2078
02:02:56,319 --> 02:02:57,159
Speaker 8: All right, let's see it.

2079
02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:58,039
Speaker 4: One.

2080
02:02:58,479 --> 02:03:01,880
Speaker 5: Jesus wasn't hung on a cross. The Bible uses the

2081
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:05,640
Greek word style rows. It was translated as cross, but

2082
02:03:05,720 --> 02:03:07,000
it can also mean a steak.

2083
02:03:09,479 --> 02:03:11,359
Speaker 3: He's just craving from those witnesses there.

2084
02:03:12,359 --> 02:03:15,479
Speaker 8: So the Greek word stavros can refer to just a steak,

2085
02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:18,600
but it can also refer to a cross, whether it's

2086
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:20,680
in an X shape, where it's in a capital T

2087
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:23,680
shape or maybe a lower case T shape. The notion

2088
02:03:23,880 --> 02:03:27,359
that Romans normally didn't use those other crosses isn't really

2089
02:03:27,359 --> 02:03:30,640
supported by the data. We don't have clear indications what

2090
02:03:30,880 --> 02:03:33,920
style was preferred over another style, and.

2091
02:03:35,279 --> 02:03:38,359
Speaker 3: A lot of what under A lot of what underlies

2092
02:03:38,359 --> 02:03:40,439
the assumptions of people like him is that there is

2093
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:43,880
only textual evidence and that we could not ever listen

2094
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:48,079
to oral tradition or the Church's tradition. Right, So that's that,

2095
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:52,880
and he's coming. You remember, Mormonism is still basically a

2096
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:58,239
schism of the Protestant domain. Right, It's not technically Protestant

2097
02:03:58,279 --> 02:04:01,800
because it's a cult, but it's ethos from which it emerges,

2098
02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:04,760
which when Joseph Smith created his cold was out of

2099
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:08,159
all the Protestant churches that he had visited. So still,

2100
02:04:08,159 --> 02:04:11,760
I'm serious, it's still a Protestant cold. And so therefore

2101
02:04:11,800 --> 02:04:15,000
they're going to assume that, you know, there's no church

2102
02:04:15,039 --> 02:04:19,000
tradition that's relevant. We only have these textual evidences. But again,

2103
02:04:19,359 --> 02:04:21,880
does he deconstruct the Book of Mormon?

2104
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:24,960
Speaker 2: By the way, I have not seen one on that

2105
02:04:25,960 --> 02:04:28,319
I have not seen that. But you make the point

2106
02:04:28,319 --> 02:04:30,479
that we mentioned in the opening is that they have

2107
02:04:30,760 --> 02:04:34,079
no recognition of oral tradition or the history of the Church,

2108
02:04:34,319 --> 02:04:36,479
or how the oral tradition of the Old Testament is

2109
02:04:36,479 --> 02:04:37,840
continued in the New Testament.

2110
02:04:38,720 --> 02:04:43,560
Speaker 8: So of crucifixion, don't come and tell about a century

2111
02:04:43,600 --> 02:04:46,000
after the death of Christ and then almost one hundred

2112
02:04:46,079 --> 02:04:50,039
years after that. But both of those depictions show at

2113
02:04:50,039 --> 02:04:52,840
T shaped cross. Take a look. This is the earliest

2114
02:04:52,840 --> 02:04:55,760
known artistic depiction of a crucifixion that shows the T

2115
02:04:55,960 --> 02:04:59,279
shaped cross. This was discovered in some excavations in a

2116
02:04:59,279 --> 02:05:02,159
city called pute Oli outside of Naples, and it is

2117
02:05:02,239 --> 02:05:06,279
dated by scholars to around the reign of Trajan or Hadrian,

2118
02:05:06,439 --> 02:05:09,359
so somewhere between around one ten and maybe one thirty

2119
02:05:09,399 --> 02:05:12,359
or one forty CE. And then we have the famous

2120
02:05:12,399 --> 02:05:15,800
Aleximenos graffito, which was discovered scratched into the walls of

2121
02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:19,279
some barracks in Rome, dating to around the year two hundred,

2122
02:05:19,319 --> 02:05:22,239
maybe a little after, shows Alexamenos on the left says

2123
02:05:22,279 --> 02:05:25,600
Alexemanos worships his God, and that's supposed to be Jesus

2124
02:05:25,600 --> 02:05:29,039
being crucified with arms outstretched over a T shaped cross

2125
02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:32,239
with the head of an ass, so they were capable

2126
02:05:32,359 --> 02:05:34,199
of some pretty sick burns back then.

2127
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:38,239
Speaker 5: Two Jesus wasn't born in a stable. According to Luke,

2128
02:05:38,439 --> 02:05:41,520
the baby was placed in a major But scholars say

2129
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:45,840
it's a mistranslation of guest room. Jesus was probably born

2130
02:05:46,079 --> 02:05:47,680
in his relative's house, so.

2131
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:50,800
Speaker 8: It is not the word manger that is a mistranslation.

2132
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:54,279
That's translated correctly. It is the phrase there was no

2133
02:05:54,439 --> 02:05:57,920
room at the inn that is a mistranslation. That is

2134
02:05:57,960 --> 02:06:01,239
where the word most likely refers to the sleeping quarters

2135
02:06:01,359 --> 02:06:04,279
or a guest room. So whoever made this video was

2136
02:06:04,359 --> 02:06:05,479
not paying close attention.

2137
02:06:06,399 --> 02:06:10,199
Speaker 5: Three Jesus was not white. We're familiar with the image

2138
02:06:10,239 --> 02:06:13,279
of Jesus as a white man, but it comes from

2139
02:06:13,359 --> 02:06:17,800
later European depictions. Jesus was Middle Eastern and Jewish.

2140
02:06:18,079 --> 02:06:20,880
Speaker 8: So while that video is showing imagery from medieval and

2141
02:06:21,000 --> 02:06:23,640
later European depictions of Jesus, we already have in the

2142
02:06:23,680 --> 02:06:27,319
Byzantine Empire in the fourth, fifth and sixth century CE,

2143
02:06:27,399 --> 02:06:31,640
Jesus being represented with lighter skin and brown hair. So

2144
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:34,760
it was only a few centuries after Jesus that the

2145
02:06:34,800 --> 02:06:38,960
depictions shifted in the direction of a more European looking Jesus.

2146
02:06:40,119 --> 02:06:42,520
Jesus wasn't born to say that, again.

2147
02:06:42,279 --> 02:06:43,960
Speaker 3: How does he know they shifted.

2148
02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:49,600
Speaker 2: Right, They're just making an assumption based on what they perceived.

2149
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:51,359
Middle Eastern Jewish identity would.

2150
02:06:51,159 --> 02:06:55,159
Speaker 3: Have looked at Orthodox iconography as a fairly consistent presentation

2151
02:06:55,239 --> 02:06:56,119
of what Christ.

2152
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:58,319
Speaker 2: Looks like, and that matches with the shroud of Turin.

2153
02:07:02,439 --> 02:07:06,279
Speaker 5: Born on December twenty fifth, none of the gospels mentioned

2154
02:07:06,279 --> 02:07:09,439
his birth date five that is accurate.

2155
02:07:10,359 --> 02:07:12,039
Speaker 8: Jesus is actually non accurate.

2156
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:16,000
Speaker 3: We know from the Book of Luke, based on the

2157
02:07:16,039 --> 02:07:21,159
time at which Zachariah was ministering in the temple. There's

2158
02:07:21,159 --> 02:07:27,359
a great classic article on this from Good Shepherd Orthodox Church.

2159
02:07:27,439 --> 02:07:33,039
Everybody should be familiar with this because you'll hear every

2160
02:07:33,119 --> 02:07:36,079
year it goes around. We all know, right, the Protestant

2161
02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:41,840
thing of Christmas is pagan, right, But Luke one eight

2162
02:07:41,880 --> 02:07:45,119
through eleven it says when Zachariah was on duty and

2163
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:47,359
was serving as a priest before God, he was chosen

2164
02:07:47,399 --> 02:07:49,479
by a lot, according to the custom of the priesthood,

2165
02:07:50,000 --> 02:07:51,880
to go into the temple Lord to burn the incense,

2166
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:53,720
and when the time for the burning of incense came.

2167
02:07:54,199 --> 02:07:56,840
All the assembled worshipers were praying outside. Then an angel

2168
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:58,960
lord appeared to him to stand on the right of

2169
02:07:59,039 --> 02:08:01,399
the altar of incense. It's the day of yan Kapoor

2170
02:08:01,720 --> 02:08:04,159
is the day in which this instance was offered. Based

2171
02:08:04,199 --> 02:08:07,439
on this observation, Christians were able to calculate the birth

2172
02:08:07,439 --> 02:08:12,159
of John the Baptist as September twenty third plus two

2173
02:08:12,239 --> 02:08:15,039
hundred and seventy days, which equals June twenty fourth. They've

2174
02:08:15,399 --> 02:08:18,199
then observed that the annunciation of Christ's birth was six

2175
02:08:18,239 --> 02:08:23,319
months after John the Baptist conception. That would put six

2176
02:08:23,359 --> 02:08:26,680
months later at March twenty fifth. Through this reasoning, Ireinaus

2177
02:08:26,760 --> 02:08:28,960
established March twenty fifth as the date of the annunciation,

2178
02:08:29,720 --> 02:08:32,720
and thus the annunciation would be what nine months later

2179
02:08:32,800 --> 02:08:39,560
at December twenty fifth, Right, So this is the patristic

2180
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:43,319
reasoning as to where that date would come would come

2181
02:08:43,359 --> 02:08:50,119
from for December twenty five. So while pushing the pagan

2182
02:08:50,159 --> 02:08:53,079
conspiracy there that December twenty five is a pagan date,

2183
02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:57,199
they never talk about the conception of John the Baptist

2184
02:08:57,399 --> 02:08:59,840
as part of the reasoning for this date.

2185
02:09:01,159 --> 02:09:03,479
Speaker 2: Right, It always goes back to Mithra worship and stuff like.

2186
02:09:03,520 --> 02:09:09,560
Speaker 5: That says Jesus had a number of siblings. However, in

2187
02:09:09,640 --> 02:09:14,279
Catholic and Eastern Orthodox doctrines, Jesus is an only child.

2188
02:09:14,159 --> 02:09:16,279
Speaker 8: So this is accurate, and many scholars believe that this

2189
02:09:16,359 --> 02:09:20,640
idea of the perpetual virginity of Mary is an elaboration

2190
02:09:20,800 --> 02:09:24,560
on a tradition from the Proto Gospel of James, which

2191
02:09:24,720 --> 02:09:28,720
describes Mary as a virgin who marries Joseph, who is

2192
02:09:28,720 --> 02:09:31,840
a much older man who already has children from another marriage.

2193
02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:36,680
So that is where Jesus's siblings come from.

2194
02:09:36,920 --> 02:09:40,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's his five things about Jesus that you

2195
02:09:40,920 --> 02:09:44,039
don't know. But I think people have kind of got

2196
02:09:44,039 --> 02:09:46,680
a feel for what it is that he does and

2197
02:09:46,720 --> 02:09:49,079
how he approaches this and how he has his own

2198
02:09:50,319 --> 02:09:59,199
his own mission and agenda behind his deconstructions. Yeah, so anyways, guys,

2199
02:09:59,199 --> 02:10:01,520
smash that like a few super chats. We're gonna address

2200
02:10:01,520 --> 02:10:04,000
those real quick and then hop out of here. Thank

2201
02:10:04,039 --> 02:10:08,079
you again, Jay for being here for part two. Your

2202
02:10:08,159 --> 02:10:12,800
knowledge of scripture and theology is profound, and appreciate your

2203
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:13,840
insights on the topic.

2204
02:10:14,319 --> 02:10:17,319
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I don't know everything. One of those was

2205
02:10:17,359 --> 02:10:21,159
not something I wasn't familiar with the blood on the

2206
02:10:21,560 --> 02:10:23,760
cloth of the virgin. That one was one I wasn't

2207
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:27,199
familiar with. But hey, I don't know everything, so.

2208
02:10:27,880 --> 02:10:31,920
Speaker 2: It's all good. AC throws into generous fifty dollars. Does

2209
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:35,720
everyone make clips of this so we have TikTok emma, Well,

2210
02:10:35,720 --> 02:10:38,880
thank you very much, AC to appreciate it. DC would

2211
02:10:38,880 --> 02:10:40,960
work through in three dollars, Thank you very much. DC.

2212
02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:44,720
And our sister slow Boy Whiteboard throws in twenty dollars.

2213
02:10:44,720 --> 02:10:46,960
As my kids went to a rap concert last night.

2214
02:10:47,079 --> 02:10:51,600
They're both adults now, so whatevs. His name is Joey.

2215
02:10:51,640 --> 02:10:53,880
Never heard of him, but they came back with merch

2216
02:10:53,960 --> 02:10:58,359
that had orthodox crosses. I looked him up Tonight Music's trash.

2217
02:10:58,520 --> 02:10:59,479
It's a shame.

2218
02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:05,880
Speaker 3: Weird. Well appreciate, like uh, you know Kanye and like,

2219
02:11:06,439 --> 02:11:08,159
you know what I mean, because they started talking about

2220
02:11:08,359 --> 02:11:12,079
icons and ice Cube was talking about icons, and then

2221
02:11:12,319 --> 02:11:15,119
Jordan Peterson's wearing a jacket. So I wonder if people

2222
02:11:15,159 --> 02:11:18,479
are like picking up on this as like a just weird,

2223
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:20,479
you know, aesthetic trend.

2224
02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:23,199
Speaker 2: I could see. I could definitely see that, and I've

2225
02:11:23,199 --> 02:11:25,720
seen it also in sort of the more hardcore metal

2226
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:30,680
music too. That really okay, that utilization of the Orthodox

2227
02:11:30,760 --> 02:11:36,720
aesthetic is a little popular, right, Okay, Ted Nublett throws

2228
02:11:36,760 --> 02:11:38,880
in five dollars, Thank you very much, He says, numbers

2229
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:43,560
five eleven and for the abroad potion okay, so I

2230
02:11:43,560 --> 02:11:44,640
think that was referenced to what.

2231
02:11:44,720 --> 02:11:45,560
Speaker 3: I was talking about.

2232
02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:49,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then sincere hypocrit throws in.

2233
02:11:49,079 --> 02:11:54,000
Speaker 3: That would be for a child who's printed parentages is

2234
02:11:54,359 --> 02:11:56,119
question that wouldn't be for a virgin.

2235
02:11:58,600 --> 02:12:00,920
Speaker 2: Sincere hypocrite throws in five al says, I'm noticing a

2236
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:06,399
pattern of prioritizing the mind materialism, improving scripture through evidentialism,

2237
02:12:06,600 --> 02:12:13,159
leading to apostasy. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of their deconstructions,

2238
02:12:13,199 --> 02:12:17,439
as we've showed, are themselves limiting the context and scope

2239
02:12:17,439 --> 02:12:19,399
of whatever it is the topic they're talking about, and

2240
02:12:19,439 --> 02:12:23,880
then bringing sort of contemporary scientific empirical analysis on it

2241
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:28,600
to try to disprove a sort of spiritual interpretation of

2242
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:33,720
scripture and how that fits literally within the narrative. And

2243
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:37,600
then we already saw AC's no nonsense spirituality comment has

2244
02:12:37,640 --> 02:12:41,760
funko pops? Yes she does. Again, Thank you so much

2245
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:45,720
ACS for sponsoring this stream for me and Jay and

2246
02:12:48,079 --> 02:12:50,520
five dollars came in over on the stream labs from

2247
02:12:50,760 --> 02:12:53,560
Nadid Hadad. He said, God bless you, Dph and j

2248
02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:55,279
feel like this is going to be a good stream

2249
02:12:55,640 --> 02:13:00,800
and chat all of the nubs like, thank you very much, Nadeed,

2250
02:13:01,199 --> 02:13:04,520
And twenty dollars came in on dono chat. Ellie says,

2251
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:09,560
keep on doing your great work, greeting from Germany. Ellie, well,

2252
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:12,279
thank you very much, Ellie, And Pope Biscuit throws in

2253
02:13:12,319 --> 02:13:15,640
a superchat says, my last brain cell is struggling to

2254
02:13:15,680 --> 02:13:19,760
stay alive after McClellan, but thank you both for covering this.

2255
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:21,760
I always learned something from you guys. Well, thank you

2256
02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:25,439
very much, Pope Biscuit, do appreciate that. And oh we

2257
02:13:25,600 --> 02:13:29,560
just got a couple more generous super chats on YouTube.

2258
02:13:30,079 --> 02:13:32,720
Jess Gerald throws in fifty dollars says, thanks for helping

2259
02:13:32,760 --> 02:13:35,399
me find the courage to step into a church again. Well,

2260
02:13:35,439 --> 02:13:40,359
glory to God for that, jefs Gerald. I'm sure Jay

2261
02:13:40,479 --> 02:13:42,920
or I or anybody who's helped are humbled to have

2262
02:13:42,960 --> 02:13:46,319
helped in any way. And crash Man throws in five

2263
02:13:46,359 --> 02:13:48,760
dollars and says the best of streams on the Internet.

2264
02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:50,880
Love both of you and die or well, thank you

2265
02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:55,039
very much, crash Man. Appreciate it and that's going to

2266
02:13:55,119 --> 02:13:59,680
do it for us tonight, guys. Do appreciate it. You guys.

2267
02:13:59,680 --> 02:14:02,720
I'm sure everybody here is already following Dire If you don't,

2268
02:14:02,800 --> 02:14:05,600
he's hyperlinked in the title goes to his YouTube channel

2269
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:09,279
and you can follow him there. Jay, is there anything

2270
02:14:09,279 --> 02:14:11,640
you want to shill or tell people before we hop

2271
02:14:11,680 --> 02:14:12,079
off here?

2272
02:14:12,439 --> 02:14:14,840
Speaker 3: Well, we do have the icon Conference coming up at

2273
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:17,159
our church here in Florida. So if people head over

2274
02:14:17,239 --> 02:14:21,640
to my website, you'll see the live events link there

2275
02:14:21,680 --> 02:14:23,760
and the post is up. You can get tickets to

2276
02:14:23,800 --> 02:14:26,359
the Icon Conference and November eight it's a one day conference.

2277
02:14:26,399 --> 02:14:30,079
It's me, my priest, Father Digan, and Ayas another priest

2278
02:14:30,119 --> 02:14:33,359
of Father Theodore I will all be giving one hour

2279
02:14:33,439 --> 02:14:37,000
talks on iconography, the symbolism, and the meaning the theology.

2280
02:14:37,520 --> 02:14:39,279
So it's going to be a great one day conference

2281
02:14:39,760 --> 02:14:43,199
November eighth. And then coming up in a couple of

2282
02:14:43,279 --> 02:14:46,279
weeks is the Brohemian Grove event, which is more of

2283
02:14:46,279 --> 02:14:50,199
a comedy conspiracy two day event, also here in Florida.

2284
02:14:50,239 --> 02:14:52,239
You can get tickets to that as well at the website.

2285
02:14:52,279 --> 02:14:56,640
So those two things are coming up. That's all I

2286
02:14:56,640 --> 02:14:57,119
can think of.

2287
02:14:57,520 --> 02:14:59,880
Speaker 2: You and Jamie have any damage, do you guys just

2288
02:15:00,279 --> 02:15:00,920
in Florida.

2289
02:15:02,039 --> 02:15:04,840
Speaker 3: No, it's Saint Augustine was fine. It didn't hit here.

2290
02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:07,640
Speaker 2: That's good. That's good. Oh and then Ac just threw

2291
02:15:07,680 --> 02:15:10,720
in another twenty bucks. He says, thanks guys, excellent stream. Well,

2292
02:15:10,720 --> 02:15:13,760
thank you so much, a C. Thanks for concoring and

2293
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:16,159
supporting our work. We do appreciate it, brother, thank you

2294
02:15:16,279 --> 02:15:19,359
very much. So all right, guys, that's going to do it.

2295
02:15:19,720 --> 02:15:22,760
I uh I will see you guys potentially tomorrow or Saturday,

2296
02:15:23,159 --> 02:15:27,640
and as always, until then, God bless all right, thanks

2297
02:15:27,640 --> 02:16:09,039
Manassa