WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:09.679 Monster House presents. 2 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.560 Okay, James, we offer up a series of temptations, gradually 3 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:16.480 increasing in terms of duration and intensity, degree of moral 4 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:19.719 and equity. Essence of baptism in this case allows us 5 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:22.600 to begin work long before the age of reason. At 6 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.480 three dis five maybe at theft of a toy car 7 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:27.879 can do a great deal. Then we go into bigger 8 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:31.800 and better things at eight. Grandmother's gifts of a Ouiji 9 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:34.679 board gives immediate access to his decision making. So we 10 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:37.039 began steering them without them all, calling into question exactly 11 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.479 who's doing steering enough? Yes, isn't few enough? 12 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:39.719 Nos? 13 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:42.920 Gives increasing rights over the victims physical and mental processes. 14 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:45.200 Did that track, James? 15 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.320 It seems random almost. I'm focused. 16 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.719 Well, that's what we want you to think. 17 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:54.560 We have a letle of focus beyond your comprehension. 18 00:00:58.159 --> 00:00:59.880 It's actually quite unlike anything. 19 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:00.759 We've ever looking before. 20 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:08.319 A giant, hairy creature, part ape, part Matt in Luckness, 21 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:10.760 a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake in the 22 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:11.799 Highlands of Scotland. 23 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:37.599 It's a creature known as the Luckness Monster. Monstertal. 24 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.200 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 25 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:43.959 Blake Smith. 26 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.519 And I'm Karen Stolsner. 27 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:47.879 There's lots of stuff going on here at Monster Talk 28 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:50.560 Manor and I'm working on some classic cryptid content, but 29 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:53.439 we're a little pressed for time this week, and Karen's 30 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:55.920 husband Matt suggested that we check out a movie he 31 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.159 was getting a lot of algorithmic nudges on, and that 32 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.799 turned out to be quite the ride. Spoilers. It was 33 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:05.640 packaged as a horror film, but it turned out to 34 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.159 be more of a stealth evangelical project. It's a twenty 35 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:13.759 twenty three indie film called Nefarious, and well, I can't 36 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.919 exactly recommend the film is horror, it certainly gave us 37 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.240 lots of stuff to talk about, so some warnings. The 38 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:25.080 film deals with the death penalty, abortion, suicide, murder, religion, 39 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:28.000 and politics, so there's going to be discussion that will 40 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.680 touch on many of these topics as well. So I 41 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:32.599 know we tend to steer away from stuff like this, 42 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.719 but hopefully we managed to navigate these with respectfulness and 43 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:40.479 you'll find our discussions of interest. Let's get to the Mobsterutle. 44 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:43.919 We were looking for what to record this week and 45 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:48.159 I had some ideas, but you problemted us with this film. 46 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:49.080 So we blame him. 47 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:50.960 You know, I didn't know what to expect because it's 48 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:52.800 not exactly it's not one of our based on a 49 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.039 true stories exactly, but it is an interesting film for 50 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.919 a lot of reasons, and it's I'm curious before we 51 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.719 get into what it's about, I'm curious, how did you 52 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:03.599 hear about it? 53 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:04.439 Yeah? 54 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.599 Well, here's the thing. When I'm at work, often I'll 55 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:13.000 be playing YouTube videos and they go from one video 56 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.039 to the next, and YouTube kind of chooses what I 57 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.800 see next, but based on and often I leave my 58 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.439 office and I'm doing things and I come back and 59 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:26.360 now YouTube believes that I like all this stuff that 60 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:30.800 I've never even seen. So it's been telling me this week, 61 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:32.759 you really do like this movie. 62 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:36.599 You really like this movie, so it's advertising for you. 63 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:37.159 Yeah. 64 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:37.439 Yeah. 65 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.120 I thought, well, okay, if if you know, YouTube says, 66 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:44.199 so it's got to be true. And I thought, hey, 67 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:46.759 let's you know. I got kind of the gist of 68 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.960 it from watching one short clip. I thought, Okay, this 69 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:54.479 sounds monstrous and we should talk about it. 70 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:59.240 So it's not just an algorithm, it's your good plgorithm. 71 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:01.240 Yeah. 72 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.719 I had the impression that was a kind of modern 73 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:08.159 day Exorcist, and I guess I had some parallels to. 74 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:12.960 That, a few and a lot of really stark differences that. Yeah, 75 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.959 I'm going to love highlighting because we've got, you know, 76 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:21.079 several movies that came to mind as I was watching this, 77 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:23.680 And should we mention what movie it is we're talking 78 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.120 about or should we just keep all the way through it. 79 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:31.639 Nefarious? Nefarious? 80 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:37.000 A twenty twenty three indie horror film. Yeah, no, I 81 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:38.040 have to say the film. 82 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:39.959 I didn't know that it's such good quality. 83 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.120 Well, it's got some money behind it. It's got some 84 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:47.160 money behind it. It's not like it's not two guys 85 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:50.720 in their parents' credit cards. It's it's it's. 86 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:51.839 What I think of when I think of Indie. 87 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:56.439 Yeah, what I noticed when I looked at the cast 88 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.839 before I hit play on this film, I said, oh, 89 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.120 that's interesting, and beck is in it. That's weird. 90 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:04.800 So yeah, we were using the same brain cell. 91 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:08.000 Yeah, yeah, I was like, that's a strange casting. But 92 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.959 it actually all makes sense. But I think maybe let's 93 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:15.600 let's let's spoil it after the after let's let's discuss it. Like, okay, 94 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:17.680 first of all, there's go to these spoilers let's talk 95 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.959 about the film for a little while then piecing together 96 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:22.920 what did we just say? What the hell does happened? 97 00:05:23.120 --> 00:05:23.319 Yeah? 98 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:24.639 Right, right right? 99 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:25.360 Oh. 100 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:27.560 The other thing I noticed before we watch it is 101 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.920 the reviews are like critics are at like thirty three 102 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:36.480 percent and audiences are at ninety six percent, which is yeah, yeah, yeah, 103 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:38.120 and we'll discuss that too. 104 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:44.040 Well, you know, and I personally think that that you know, 105 00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:48.800 high number really does carry through for most of the movie. 106 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:54.199 And it wasn't until the ending that I lost my 107 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:56.839 high rating of the movie. So you know, as long 108 00:05:56.879 --> 00:06:00.560 as I ignore the ending, and I did it. They 109 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:03.079 had a lot of great things about it and a 110 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:07.319 lot of really scary, scary scary things about it, and. 111 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:13.560 In the psychological sense and social yes, facing. 112 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.360 You know, the reality of the world we're living in. Uh. 113 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.800 And you know, I mean we've all seen the Peace 114 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.639 Soup and Spinning Heads version of possession. 115 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:24.560 Uh that's the real version. 116 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:27.920 Yeah, we've seen the real thing. But in this case, 117 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.160 you know, it's just yeah, we have to ask that question. 118 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.800 Does evil always have to be you know, loud and grotesque? 119 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.800 And what if it's rational, yeah, even likable? You know, 120 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:43.079 then Uh, that's pretty frightening in itself, right there, So 121 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:47.000 he thought, you know a time semon. 122 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:48.600 Charming. 123 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.000 Yeah, I did adore the Demon at times. 124 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:54.680 Yeah, I mean so, I guess we should let me 125 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.040 lay down the plot. The basic plot is there is 126 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.360 a man named Edward Wayne Bray, not to be confused 127 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:06.920 with the comedian and Wayne Brady. He is played by 128 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:10.480 Sean Patrick Flannery, who people may know from The Bunda 129 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:16.120 Saints among other things, and he's being interviewed because he's 130 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:19.959 going to be executed, and according to the plot, they 131 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.439 need to do a last minute make sure he's not 132 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:27.199 actually mentally ill, he's competent to actually be executed. I 133 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.879 don't think this is like how things normally would go. 134 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.560 You wouldn't do this like hours before the execution, but 135 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:37.040 what do I know. Yeah, but the regular psychiatrist who's 136 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.680 supposed to be coming in jumps off a building right 137 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:45.560 before the movie really gets going, and so Sean Patrick 138 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:50.480 sorry Jordan Belfi is brought in as sort of the 139 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.360 last minute replacement doctor. Only it turns out that this 140 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.639 was all very well orchestrated by the Demon. If we're 141 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.240 to believe the story anyway, The question is, is this 142 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:05.240 guy crazy or is he really saying but he's possessed 143 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:06.879 by a really evil entity. 144 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.959 Now I noticed that, you know, the other movies or 145 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.920 pieces of literature that kind of came to mind while 146 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:20.839 watching this was, of course, The Exorcist, and I'll explain 147 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:22.680 why in a moment. But there was that. There was 148 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:29.800 Anne Rice's Memnoch the Devil, and there was Fallen with 149 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:30.759 Denzel Washington. 150 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.519 Yeah, Fallen especially, I thought, yeah. 151 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:35.960 And have you ever read or do you know about 152 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:37.159 the Screwtape Letters. 153 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:40.039 You know, it's a shame that I haven't, but I 154 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.279 know the C. S. Lewis wrote them, and that I 155 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.519 think John Cleese did a performance of them. It's supposed 156 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:45.000 to be quite good. 157 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:47.919 Oh M to look for that, because you know, it 158 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.039 is heavy on the satire. But the demon reminds me 159 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:57.679 of Screwtape. And basically what happens in the Screwtape Letters 160 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.960 is you've got this demon named Screwtape who is basically 161 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:07.080 counseling his nephew, Wormwood on how to tempt humanity and 162 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.000 how to get them going down that path. And there 163 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:13.480 was just a little bit of that personality in there 164 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:17.840 with this with this demon, and and it was. It 165 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:24.919 was really interesting. I mean because there was a real uh, 166 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:27.919 there was a lot of propaganda in this this. You know, 167 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:32.039 when The Exorcist came out, the Catholic Church had a 168 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:37.320 huge number of people converting to Catholicism, and I think 169 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:40.600 sort of, you know, right wing Christians were really hoping 170 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.240 for the same kind of effect with this. 171 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:45.360 Yeah, this is heavy on the proselytizing. 172 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:47.039 Yes, it is definitely heavy. 173 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:50.000 Well, you've mentioned a number of books that focus on 174 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.200 exorcisms and demonic possession. 175 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.399 But what I thought of was Sybil. 176 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:58.720 So the book, oh, the movie, I thought of that 177 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.840 because they were the personality is Actually yeah, they did 178 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.919 actually mention the disorder disassociated identity disorder. It used to 179 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:10.879 be known as multiple personality disorders. Yes, so where someone 180 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:15.519 experiences too or more distinct personalities or identities as a 181 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:20.080 different different characters. And because we kept seeing this switch 182 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.080 between Edward and the Demon, that was what I kept 183 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:27.000 thinking of. I guess we'll get into this more too, 184 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:32.240 just talking about Edward and the Demon, the different characters. 185 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:37.159 But I certainly felt a lot of empathy for Edward 186 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:40.639 at times, and even though he's this serial killer who's 187 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:45.120 killed at least six people, possibly many more. You could 188 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:49.200 really see as this fiction is playing out that he's 189 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:55.799 the victim. 190 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:59.759 Yes, yeah, and it is, you know, heart wrenching at 191 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:06.320 times when you get to see how much joy Nefarious 192 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:12.120 gets out of his continued torturing of Edward, even down 193 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:13.759 to the double cheeseburger. 194 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.600 Uh yeah, I want let him, let him have his 195 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:17.399 final meal. 196 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:22.120 Yeah, it's it's it's it is really sad. I mean 197 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.159 there was a lot of things that were very confronting 198 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:28.279 about this movie. Oh yeah, And I mean you've got 199 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.120 things like, let's let's talk about Fallen just for a moment. 200 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:36.559 A Zazel in Fallen I think really reminds me a 201 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:39.679 bit of COVID. You know. It was this thing that 202 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.279 would would just transfer by touch, and it was all 203 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.279 about destroying its host, you know, and so it's really indifferent. 204 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.039 You know the whole way through, Uh, the Exorcist Pazuzu 205 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:56.120 was about kind of destroying innocence and and you know, 206 00:11:56.240 --> 00:12:00.200 making you feel that despair. Uh, And so it had 207 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:04.519 a slightly different thing. Now you've got Nefarious, who is 208 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:08.480 all about making you just kind of forget and not 209 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:12.320 notice and just numb, numb to what's going on right 210 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:15.519 in front of you, and not really pay attention to 211 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.200 it or think of it as evil. And I think 212 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:25.720 that that really unintentionally, I think that it really highlights 213 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.399 the world we're living in right now and how we 214 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:34.200 are constantly every day being numbed to Yeah, and the 215 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.799 things that are going on, you know, around us, and 216 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.720 we're just kind of you know, it's all theater. It's 217 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:43.799 all theater to us, and it's it shouldn't be. And 218 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:45.960 that's the part that hit me hard, even though that 219 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:49.639 wasn't even in the message. You know. The message was 220 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:55.679 you know, if you'll, if you'll allow me, you are 221 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:59.679 all infected with the woke mind virus and you think 222 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:02.960 that these non Christian things are okay, but they're not, 223 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.799 and it's all part of the demon coming to get you. 224 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:10.960 That's the bottom line of this whole movie. But the 225 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:15.320 things that I think we pick up from watching it 226 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:20.759 in our current you know, a climate is far more 227 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.919 scary than what they were intending to scare us with. 228 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:26.159 Well, how could they have learn a couple of years ago? 229 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:27.320 Yeah? 230 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:30.519 How could they from twenty sixteen on? How could they 231 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:31.039 have known. 232 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.919 Twenty twenty three? Yes, even more has happened. 233 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.080 It's interesting that the film itself. Okay, so I kept 234 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:45.799 getting this vibe. I was like, this reminds me of 235 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:50.399 the sort of thing when I was growing up. They 236 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.600 would have movies where they would bring them into the 237 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.159 church and they would have like a movie night, and 238 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:59.679 it would be like some Christian values film would be 239 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:03.679 shown instead of instead of like, instead of in a 240 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:05.159 movie theater, you'd show it at. 241 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.000 The church, a very special episode of Family Times. 242 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:11.720 Yeah, yeah, but I I I'm not far off. I 243 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.120 mean to say, you know, it's heavy handed propaganda, like 244 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.799 I mean it, I don't there's a very strong It's 245 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.480 weird to me because there's absolutely a very strong Christian 246 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:28.279 message here, but it's not exactly to the level I 247 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.080 would have expected given the people who put it together. Right, 248 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.879 So it turns out the directors here, Carrie Solomon and 249 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:40.200 Chuck Consulman, are the people behind God's Not Dead and 250 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:45.639 that that those fine cinema features and you know, and 251 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:50.600 so our protagonist in this film, the psychiatrist, is portrayed 252 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.639 as being an atheist, and the demon goes to this 253 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:57.200 whole thing about you know, you'd have to invite me 254 00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:59.399 in and He's like, Okay, you know, come on in, 255 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.120 you know, and then I'm going to spoil it. At 256 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.519 the end of the film, there's a very tense moment 257 00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.480 where it seems like maybe the demon has taken over 258 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.200 and take it. He's he's gonna actually cause him to suicide, 259 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.279 which makes no sense because he told him he was 260 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.159 going to publish his book, and like, so his whole 261 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:20.080 thing was he wants to publish a book, which is them. 262 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:25.120 You know. That was an interesting kind of contrast to 263 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.960 the Bible. I loved him referring to the Carpenter. 264 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:35.600 Yeah. Yeah, but it's like I don't understand, Like it's 265 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:40.159 so simplistic in a way. It's like, hey, you know, 266 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.200 you guys have your Bible. We're going to do our 267 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:47.000 dark evangelism, and we're going to have this book about 268 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:51.519 me the demon nefarious and how you know how to 269 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.480 take over the world? Right, that's and it's going to 270 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.159 be a book, because when you want to change the world, 271 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.759 you definitely want a book. That's how you do it. 272 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.639 People love to read. People are always sitting down and 273 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:03.960 reading their books. 274 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:08.679 Yes, I guess around for thousands of years, he is. 275 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.039 Not caught up. He should be on TikTok is I 276 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:11.679 guess what I say. 277 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.279 And that's the thing, you know, being around for thousands 278 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.600 of years, the amount of time that we've been exposed 279 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:21.639 to TikTok is a very short so he's still just 280 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:22.519 a little behind. 281 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.600 I think the whole film was was simplistic and intended 282 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.519 to be that way. I mean, it all centers on 283 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:32.200 the psycho, one room, one table, prisoner sitting there. I mean, 284 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.279 that is that's hard work for from a writing perspective 285 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:38.679 and an acting perspective. 286 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:43.840 I mean, Sean Patrick Flannery was I mean knocking it 287 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.120 out of the park. But you know it's it's not 288 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.120 Jordan Belfie's fault, I guess, but he felt like he 289 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:52.799 was on a TV show, and Flannery felt like he 290 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.120 was going for the Oscar. I don't know he was really. 291 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:58.960 I mean he could tell when he was the Demon 292 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.440 because he had that twet yeah. 293 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:08.839 Yeah, if and the Heath Ledger joker dry mouth yeah yeah. 294 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:09.880 I mean yeah. 295 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:13.400 He brought a lot of really clear acting to it. 296 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.079 I mean like he made character tics and like gave 297 00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:18.319 you clear indications when he was hopping back and forth 298 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.160 between his two roles. I don't know. I was very 299 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.359 impressed by him, not so much by the script. And 300 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:29.359 again I'm super open minded to it doesn't bother me 301 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.880 if a film has, you know, religious undertones or whatever 302 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:36.559 or overtones if it's a good movie. And I think 303 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.079 what happened at the end, as you say, it sort 304 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:43.359 of collapsed into a hyper simplistic, predictable conclusion that kind 305 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:47.599 of spoiled where it seemed like it was going. I 306 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.440 don't know, That's just my take, but I definitely got 307 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.480 the vibe that this would be a thing that you 308 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:54.799 could have shown at a church, and maybe people did, 309 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.920 and that the ninety six percent approval ready for the 310 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.960 audience is probably Christian love bombing on the review. 311 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:02.359 Oh yeah, I think so. I think so. I mean, 312 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:07.519 but but you know, being a demonic possession fan that 313 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.119 I am, as we all are, yes, I did enjoy 314 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:18.480 a lot of aspects of it, you know, I enjoyed 315 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:23.200 the points where the demon was leading him down the 316 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.359 path of this is all fake, I'm you know. In 317 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:32.039 the Book of the Exorcist, uh Pazuzu did that to 318 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:36.720 Father Karras where they found evidence in her room that 319 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.440 she had been reading about cults and everything, so her 320 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.720 knowledge about this was was not diabolical. Uh, And so 321 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.400 he's thinking this whole thing, I can't do an exorcism, 322 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.519 this is not you know, this is not real. This 323 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:52.920 girl is is faking. And you know, the demon does 324 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.559 the same thing here. We're calling doubt, you know, into 325 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.920 his mind. And I really appreciated the fact that they 326 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.920 kind of kept that kind of personality or that thought 327 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:06.240 process of a demon what I And I liked it 328 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.160 too when he said, you know, invite me in, come on, 329 00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:11.400 invite me in. And then he doesn't take him up 330 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.079 onto it and take him up on it, you know, 331 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.680 kind of a much too vulgar display of power. And 332 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:21.319 he just said, you know, patience, And of course I 333 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.039 knew what was going to happen the minute he said patience. 334 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.279 I knew what was coming. But the fact that this 335 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:33.680 diabolically intelligent being set things up so beautifully to fail 336 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:38.440 so stupidly disappointed me, because you know, if he was 337 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:42.799 really that diabolically intelligent, it would not have ended the 338 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.559 way it did, and we would have been in much 339 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.640 more despair, such as at the end of Fallen you 340 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.119 know where the demon keeps going. Now, it did show 341 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.480 us that the demon was still there and still going. 342 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:57.480 But then it makes you wonder what was the point 343 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:58.440 of the whole display. 344 00:19:58.759 --> 00:19:59.960 Yeah, it really. 345 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.119 Well, it could have gone lots of different ways. I 346 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.319 was wondering if the demon was going to be transferred 347 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.920 into the psychiatrist. I just wasn't really sure what was 348 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.079 going to happen. But what I did like was the. 349 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:12.839 And that's what the foreshadowing told us. 350 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.599 Well, yeah, I think it did lead us astray a 351 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.200 number of times, and one of those times was when 352 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.759 the priest came in. I really thought he was going 353 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:23.880 to factor more into the rest of the movie, but 354 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:25.960 I thought it was interesting the way that threw a 355 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:28.559 self balance with him coming in and the demon was 356 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:32.799 very worked up and fearful of him, but then he 357 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:35.519 just assured him, Oh, well, these kinds of things don't exist. 358 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.519 I don't do exorcisms, and he just dismissed all of that. 359 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:44.039 So I don't know what his his religious background was, 360 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:45.240 but he certainly didn't. 361 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:46.759 Yeah. 362 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:48.519 Yeah, I mean that whole thing to me just kind 363 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.720 of showed that the even the church has been infected, 364 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.640 you know, with this. 365 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.240 You know, bor skepticism. 366 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.759 Yeah, you know, this whole just numbness of what's going 367 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.519 on in front of them. They've all been infected with it. 368 00:21:06.759 --> 00:21:10.160 You know. It's like one of the great quotes bottom line. 369 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:13.799 As you're done, it's over. That's it. And we did 370 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:16.920 it all right to your face, James, And now there's 371 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:23.799 evil everywhere and no one even cares. Yeah, I don't agree, 372 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:28.200 proving that we achieved our goal slowly with your movies, 373 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.119 your TV and your media, which sensitized you, redirected your 374 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.720 worldview to the point that you can't even recognize evil 375 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:37.759 when it's right in front of your face. More to 376 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:39.559 the point, James, you can't even feel it when you're 377 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.599 doing it. And that's for winners and losers, Bobo. That 378 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.680 gets decided at the time of death. These act numbers 379 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:51.039 are closely guarded secret. But there are more of you 380 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.920 ending up in my master's house than with the enemy, 381 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:56.640 a lot more. 382 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.480 I mean, you know, evil didn't barge in. It just 383 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:06.880 asked nicely and waited quietly, you know. And that's much 384 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.319 more intelligent and terrifying, I think than just this monster 385 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:15.039 comes stomping in to have it be really brilliant and 386 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.160 play chess with you, And this demon played chess so 387 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:24.119 well throughout this movie untill the end. 388 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:28.359 But why Okay, So this has been a problem with 389 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:34.960 the whole demonic possession Faustian bargain thing from the very beginning. 390 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:39.319 I never understood this exactly, the idea that you would 391 00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:43.680 need to bargain for your soul with the devil in 392 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.519 order to get benefits. Okay, because at least the way 393 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.119 I was brought up as an evangelical, the idea is 394 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.039 because of original sin, if you haven't made a relationship 395 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.000 with Christ and accepted him as your personal ordered savior, 396 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.720 then you're already doomed to hell. So to what advantage 397 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:03.559 is it to the devil to give you when he bargained, 398 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.400 because he's already got your soul. So it really doesn't 399 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.119 I mean, that has never made any theological sense to 400 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.279 me that you might be able to bargain it away 401 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.200