WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.720 Welcome to another segment of the nonprofits where today we're 2 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:07.719 going to discuss police misconduct. Now, I know the police 3 00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:11.039 must conduct is nothing new. However, there's been some research 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:15.919 in the details regarding cases involving non lethal force and 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:20.480 it's revealed some surprising and well, very disturbing information. Aaron, 6 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:21.719 what do you have for us? 7 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:22.519 Yeah. 8 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:25.839 A three year investigation by the Associated Press, the Howard 9 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:29.399 Center for Investigative Journalism, programs at the University of Maryland 10 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:33.000 and Arizona State University, and Frontline PBS have revealed that 11 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.640 over a thousand people have died in encounters with police 12 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:42.039 that involve non lethal force. The report gives details on 13 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.159 a bunch of different stories that show that there is 14 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.280 still work to be done to better train our police officers, 15 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.399 to increase and improve the data that gets released about 16 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:53.960 police encounters, and work at removing the blue wall of 17 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.119 silence that prevents police culture and prevents us from holding 18 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:01.280 the police officers accountable when they use excessive inappropriate actions. 19 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:04.920 These articles are from the AP News by Jeff Martin 20 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:07.799 on August sixteenth, twenty twenty four, and March twenty eighth, 21 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:08.680 twenty twenty four. 22 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.159 Thanks Aaron and one thing I wanted to want to 23 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:15.040 go straight into is do you think that wanting to 24 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.359 be a police officer is something that sometimes attracts people 25 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:21.280 who just really are a bad fit for the job. 26 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:23.879 So oh, I totally agree that you can look at 27 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:25.959 all kinds of professions in the world and you can 28 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.760 see the certain personality types are attracted to those kinds 29 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:31.359 of professions. If you hang around a lot of engineers, 30 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:34.159 you get to know what an engineer's like. 31 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.040 For the same thing. Doctors are kind of the same way. 32 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.799 There's just certain personalitypes that are charge to certain jobs, 33 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:42.400 and police officer is definitely one of those. They can 34 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.560 attract people that like to throw their weight around. It 35 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:47.719 can attract people that like to be in power and 36 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.560 in control, and when you have those personality traits, you 37 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:54.200 can sometimes abuse that power and take advantage of people. 38 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.519 So yeah, I definitely think policing is we have to 39 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.519 be really careful who we allow into those that profession. 40 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:01.519 I completely agree. 41 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:05.840 I For me personally, I long have supported community policing 42 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:11.000 rather than this adversarial nature of especially since the drug 43 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.240 war has been something that's pretty much pervaded policing for 44 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:18.400 the last forty years where we've seen the US versus 45 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.639 them mentality of the police to be stronger and stronger, 46 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.039 and oftentimes I think we hire people from the wrong 47 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:27.719 segments of the population to try to get a more 48 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.159 effective service. Now switching over to you, aj, I noticed 49 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.719 your article mentioned that one thousand, over a thousand deaths 50 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:37.879 that researched and there was some very clear signs and negligence. 51 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:41.159 Are the police typically being held accountable for these deaths? 52 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:44.400 Are they being opened and straightforward with the victims' families. 53 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.520 Yeah, in this specific investigation, out of the one thousand 54 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:53.800 deaths identified, we're being caused by police, you know that 55 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:58.680 enforced by police, but only twenty eight were charged in 56 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:03.199 less than two hundred in some kind of settlement. And 57 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:07.039 the reason for this was because prosecuting officers seem a 58 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.639 sort of politically sensitive, you know, like just don't want 59 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.000 to do that. And in the case of the person 60 00:03:15.080 --> 00:03:18.680 in the article, the twenty two year old Austin, he 61 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.960 had a history of caesars and when the police came, 62 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.960 they tased him and they placed him in his stomach, 63 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.120 which is also known as the prone position, and this 64 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.240 is what ultimately led to his death. He was placing 65 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.400 that position for such a long period of time. But 66 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.199 his family had been told that he died of a 67 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.319 drug overdose, and this wasn't found until later on when 68 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:45.039 they did the investigation and they released video. So you know, 69 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.280 just having a drug in your system at the time 70 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:51.800 of death does not equal coalisation. Someone with a known 71 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.199 medical condition, such as Caesar should not be placed in 72 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:59.560 the prone position because these can affect things like intracranial pressure. 73 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:01.680 In his case, that's what happened. 74 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:05.680 Yeah, I definitely think that training is at least part 75 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:08.479 of the problem. Now, Damien. I know in the last 76 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:12.599 decade there's been an increased focus regarding police here in 77 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.159 the US. There's been moved to defund the police, while 78 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:18.439 others are up in arms about how vital the police are. 79 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.399 Where are you in this issue? Was NWA right with 80 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:24.240 fuck the police? Or is it back to blue and 81 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:25.759 we can't see anything wrong? 82 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:26.360 Are? 83 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:28.439 Is reality a little muddier. 84 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:29.759 And somewhere in between those positions? 85 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:30.279 What do you think? 86 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:36.720 Yeah, look, I think both sentiments have made correct points. 87 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:41.519 I think back in the late eighties early nineties, when 88 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:47.920 black people were essentially being targeted by police departments that 89 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:52.279 were laws unto themselves. Yes, I think the NWA were 90 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:55.920 right to say fuck the police. But then also, however, 91 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:00.879 we know that we need a mechanism of inform laws 92 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:03.120 in order to keep people safe and take the bad 93 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.120 guys off the streets. And so in that instance, yes, 94 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:10.920 back the blue because you know, thankfully, the vast majority 95 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:14.759 of police interactions ends with the perpetrator being taken away 96 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:21.360 and people being safe. Unfortunately, there is a small minority 97 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:26.680 of interactions that go wrong. And yeah, unfortunately, even though 98 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.920 it is a small minority, I would hate to have 99 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:35.160 a child who has a non medical condition to be 100 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:40.879 essentially killed by police officers who were acting as if 101 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:44.360 a person resisting arrest is a threat without knowing that 102 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:47.680 they have there in the middle of a legitimate medical episode. 103 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:50.199 And I think for that is where we need more 104 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:54.680 training and accountability. Yeah, maybe even a bit more empathy 105 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.720 as well, because as the panel's already made clear, that 106 00:05:58.839 --> 00:06:02.680 sometimes the policing is a profession that people with a 107 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.279 power bent do go to. That's not to say that 108 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.720 every policeman is power hungry is a power hungry gorilla, 109 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:12.040 but eighty is also a known fact that the more 110 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:16.199 power a position has, the more likely you are too, 111 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.079 or attract people whose whose interests aren't always altruistic. 112 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:22.720 I agree, And you know, a lot of times on 113 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:26.399 this show we talk about you know, religious people, religious 114 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:29.680 pastors and priests, and we see people in that position 115 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.959 of power as well abusing their power. And I really 116 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.920 think we're seeing something similar there. You know, if you're 117 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.279 if you're if you're a person who likes to control people, 118 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.120 you oftentimes gravitate towards a position that's going to give 119 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.519 you that, just as we see people who are pedophiles 120 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.079 who often put themselves in the positions And I'm not 121 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.560 trying to say police are pedophiles by any stretch of 122 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.399 the imagination, but we see people like that going to 123 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.759 places where kids are. It just makes sense. You go 124 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.959 to where whatever you want or what's important to you, 125 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.079 or whatever did you think is going to give you 126 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:07.759 the biggest ability or greatest ability to do that. 127 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.399 Now we see we see in church, we see it 128 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:12.600 in politics, we see it in business, we see in 129 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:16.480 the military, we see in in lots of facets, we 130 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.720 see we see in lots of fats of life and 131 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.040 lots of different professions. 132 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:22.839 So the police, I know different in this aspect. 133 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:26.480 Absolutely, and Aaron, we'll discussed a little bit and you 134 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:29.600 touched on it, Damien touched on it. Do you do 135 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.240 you think that this often just boils down to a 136 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.759 lack of adequate training, people not being ready to understand 137 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:39.920 what's what they should do in these situations and and 138 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.680 understand that you don't put as AJ mentioned prone people, 139 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.759 people who have see a history of seizures in a 140 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.160 pro position. Do you think this is oftentimes boils down 141 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:52.240 to a lack of understanding and training. 142 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:53.600 I think that's part of it. 143 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:55.839 Unfortunately, I'm not I'm not very much of an of 144 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:59.519 an expert on policing and what things that that can 145 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.639 make you can do to improve them. According to this 146 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.639 API article, that there's definitely things that police are doing 147 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:07.800 in these situations that make the situation worse, that are 148 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:12.319 escalating the situation, and we need to make sure that 149 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:16.319 all police are trained to not do those things. Because 150 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.079 anytime a life is lost on an accident because somebody did 151 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:23.600 something wrong accidentally, that's preventable. We need to really work 152 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:27.319 hard on doing that undoing and preventing that from happening 153 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:28.199 in the future. 154 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:32.840 I would agree, and AJ, did you find any common 155 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:37.039 themes of what are common with these deaths, like something 156 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.759 that happened frequently or what was the most dominant reason 157 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:44.240 for people who ended up dead in police custody while 158 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:45.039 they're being arrested. 159 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:48.279 Yeah, exactly as in the case of Aaron who had 160 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:52.440 the seasars. The AP investigation found that the most common 161 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.399 cause of death in police don't enforced cases was the 162 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.080 use of the prone position. So it which is and 163 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:03.159 then put the person on their stomach. It doesn't usually 164 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:05.639 lead to that as long as it's used for a 165 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.000 short period of time and without adding pressure to the 166 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:14.039 person's back. But unfortunately, one of the most common things 167 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:17.159 for officers to do is to have one or more 168 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.200 police officers on top of the suspect put in their 169 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:24.039 knees in their back and so in this case with 170 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:29.480 the prone position and the pressure is just that waiting 171 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:34.080 to happen. The problem. The main issue here is that 172 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:38.000 the prone position when you put someone when you put 173 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:41.559 pressure on someone's stomach, it reduces the blood flow to 174 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:45.720 the lungs. This lowers osigenation and eventually it can cause 175 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:50.080 cardiac carest But this is why when you watch these videos, 176 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.720 which is horrifying, you can hear the suspects saying I 177 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.799 can't breathe. That's the case like with fluid, which would 178 00:09:58.159 --> 00:09:58.960 hurt the story. 179 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:04.240 You know, many times, I'm totally with you there, and Damien, 180 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.679 you had talked about recognizing that that middle ground, because 181 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:12.559 it's easy to say one thing, fuck the police, It's 182 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:16.279 easy to say back to blue. And as in most situations, 183 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:18.279 reality is somewhere in the middle. 184 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:19.480 You know there there. 185 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.279 Does need to be some sort of regulation, enforcement protection. 186 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:25.639 We have to have some organization whatever we want to 187 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:28.279 call them, to do that. What do you think of 188 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.600 some of the things that we could do to mitigate 189 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:34.639 some of these extreme actions and make the police citizen 190 00:10:34.759 --> 00:10:38.000 interaction less hazardous for frankly, both parties. 191 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:42.840 Indeed, I'm actually fortunate in that in the Saints in Australia. 192 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.639 I live in the state of Victoria in Australia, and 193 00:10:45.679 --> 00:10:51.120 we actually had a time of reckoning in the early nineties. 194 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:55.440 During the during the nineteen eighties, the armed Robbery Squad 195 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:59.840 was known to shoot first and ask questions later, and 196 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:04.120 that was presuming that the suspects survived. What eventually happened 197 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.600 was that the police, if you were cynical, you would 198 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:11.360 say that they performed an execution on a particular suspect. 199 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.960 If you're a bit more charitable, you will say that 200 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:18.120 it's an arrest that went wrong. Essentially, they shot in 201 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:23.360 public and killed a well known armed robber. What then 202 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.279 happened was that the family of this armed robber set 203 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.360 up an ambush later that night where they set a 204 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.720 stolen car on fire, and the two young constables that 205 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:35.600 went out to investigate the current of the sole and 206 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:38.879 car were ambushed and shot in the head and died 207 00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:41.519 in the street, execution style. And it was only in 208 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:45.600 the aftermath of all this that there was what was 209 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.039 called a Royal commission, which is like the highest level 210 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.759 of inquiry that a government can form. Here, they had 211 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:55.759 a Royal commission into police interactions with suspects and they 212 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.639 found that, yeah, there were a number of police there 213 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.840 was a culture of police that was essentially shoot first, 214 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:06.279 handcuffed first, beat up first, and then ask questions assuming 215 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.399 that the person was in a position to speak for 216 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.399 themselves later on, and if the person couldn't speak for themselves, 217 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.080 it was like, well, sorry, guys, the suspect just happened 218 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:18.279 to die when he was in our custody. Oh look, sorry, 219 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:20.720 nothing more we can do. And it was from it 220 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.840 was from that inquiry and from the testimony and from 221 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.960 Blake breaking the blue wall of silence that you know, thankfully, 222 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:33.120 people being shot and killed by police are very very 223 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.039 infrequent now, very very infrequent. 224 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.519 Now, that is, you know, something that really hits on 225 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:41.759 it that until there's a little level of honesty about 226 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.720 what's going on, and that requires both the citizens, the police, 227 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:51.440 well actually all three, and the government to step back 228 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:54.919 and really examine. As I know that it's been mentioned 229 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.080 on the panel already. I believe Aaron mentioned it about 230 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:01.360 when things like this happen, what do we do? You know, 231 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.000 where we go from here? And how do we change 232 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:05.759 these things? 233 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:06.240 Now? 234 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:07.720 Aaron, you know. 235 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.960 We've talked about exposing police inadequacies and protecting police from 236 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.440 false allegations. They both seem to be reasonable goals in 237 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.200 my opinion. And now when it comes to police recording 238 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.159 the interactions, do you think this has caused officers to 239 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.639 behave differently because they're being reported and if so, in 240 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:25.720 a good or a bad way? 241 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.360 I think recording police can only lead to good outcomes 242 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.919 because of forces visibility it provides visibility. I think all 243 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.440 police officers should be required to wear and have body 244 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.519 cams on at all times, or at least. 245 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:41.679 When they're patrolling, when they're doing they're doing work. 246 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.360 If a police officer turns off his camera, which in 247 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:48.399 some situations police have been known to do, uh, their 248 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.320 actions should be immediately suspect. They should be held to 249 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.840 account for that. If those body cam footages, I think 250 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:58.440 that has really started to reveal the problem with policing, 251 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.879 that policing isn't as fair and has balanced in some 252 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.799 parts that we want. We like to believe it is right. 253 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.240 In some places it is, but in other places it's not. 254 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.000 And up until we started to have ubiquitous cameras and phones, 255 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:14.480 everybody's got a phone now, right, we always it was 256 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:16.480 always a he said, she said type of a situation 257 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.120 where the police officer says, no, no, this is what happened, 258 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.600 and the victim says, no, no, this is what happened, and 259 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:22.039 who are. 260 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:22.480 We going to trust? 261 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:25.639 But we have to trust the police because they're the police, right. 262 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.480 I remember there was a police officer once where someone 263 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.879 he wasn't aware he shot someone and proceeded to then 264 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:35.759 stage the scene. So it made it look like he 265 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:38.399 he he was being threatened, and we only know that 266 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.320 because somebody was recording on their phone. 267 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:42.879 Well say I'm gonna I'm going to jump in it 268 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:44.919 and say it also happens the other the other way 269 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:49.360 as well, in that civilians will accuse the police of 270 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.960 being heavy handed or of doing something. And what we 271 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.639 want one of the things that you bequotous body cameras 272 00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:01.840 do is actually show us how danger policing actually is 273 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:06.039 as well as civilians. We don't like, we don't deal with, 274 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.679 you know, the bad guys with guns, or the bad 275 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.360 guys running drugs, or the bad guys you know who 276 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.639 are on drugs who are going down the streets smashing 277 00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.200 things up and threatening people. And so you do have 278 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.879 to have a little bit of respect for people who 279 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.279 do willingly put themselves in that position to keep the 280 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.159 community safe. And this is what I said before, was 281 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.320 that the like the vast majority of police I think 282 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:29.960 do a great job, and the vast majority of police 283 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:34.600 interactions and with the perpetrator, you know, being taken away 284 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.559 and put in a safer place, both of themselves and 285 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.440 for and for society. 286 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.480 Really good point. Thank you for making it. I totally agree. 287 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.480 It helps protect not only it helps protect everybody. 288 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:50.240 I was going to add to that that, Yeah, absolutely. 289 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:53.360 I think a lot of police officers do feel that 290 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:57.679 their lives is, you know, are being threatened, and so 291 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:00.440 they feel that they have to use that. Of course, 292 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.159 it's not always the case, but it is a lot 293 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:06.440 of It's in a lot of the situations, and I 294 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.120 think with a lot of them it can be when 295 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:12.320 the suspect has a mental health issue and the officer 296 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.360 feels threadened and doesn't understand how to deal with that. 297 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:17.720 And I think that's why we have such a big 298 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.360 push here in America for that the whole defund the 299 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:26.159 police movement, And it's not necessarily to take away resources 300 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:31.360 from the police, but rather to move them to things 301 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.559 like having consulars for example, instead of responding to certain 302 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:39.480 calls that requires some type of mental health assessment. Rather 303 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.159 than just throwing a police officer with a gun, just 304 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:44.960 throw somebody in that has the knowledge on how to 305 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.120 handle that person so that the situation doesn't escalate. 306 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.360 But why not just give the police that training in 307 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.720 the first place? Well, why say defund the police? Because 308 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:55.679 when you say defund the police, you are literally saying 309 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.360 take away resources from the police, sorry and give it to. 310 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.720 I think it's still a wrong warning that they've used 311 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:03.440 for that movement. 312 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.119 Yeah, yeah, I agree. And one thing for me is 313 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:09.759 I do think that there's a certain level of defunding 314 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.799 me personally that is necessary because over the last forty 315 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.400 years we've established a very militarized police force, primarily to 316 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.039 deal with a drug war that will never win LEF. 317 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:24.559 So is it a case of defunding the polace or 318 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.920 reorganizing the police? 319 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:29.400 Oh, without a doubt, it's a matter of reorganizing those funds. 320 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.519 But there's so much money right now that is going 321 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.359 into essentially militarizing our police and I. 322 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.960 Are you going to get Are you going to get 323 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:41.440 a better police force by taking money away from them? 324 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:43.920 I think that we're going to get a better police 325 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:47.839 force if we take away certain things. And those things 326 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:53.359 are they're very expensive toys that we see that are militarization. 327 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.400 Because the truth is is I do think that while yes, 328 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.680 there's going to require funding for that training and far 329 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.400 that education and more specialized people who are able to 330 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:06.680 deal with certain things, because that's what we need. We 331 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:09.160 need a more diverse police force. And that is going 332 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.440 to cost money. Honestly, I don't think it's going to 333 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:15.960 cost what we're spending on arming the police so that 334 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.039 they can go in with kicking indoor police. 335 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:20.880 What would you give the police to be able to 336 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.599 do they jumped in. 337 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.319 Well, first, I would change what the police do. I 338 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:28.480 think that until we legalize in prohibition, let me put 339 00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.160 it that way, until we in prohibition entirely, I don't 340 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.160 think we're going to change the situation because we've created 341 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.759 us versus them, and when we come down to it, yes, 342 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.319 we're not going to have police forces with no money. 343 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.880 But I do think that we need to spend that 344 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.079 money on things that aren't with the goal of kicking 345 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.240 in people's doors with masks on and arresting them. I 346 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:54.160 think that when you do that, you make police the enemy, 347 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.400 and what you do is you create greater hostility. So 348 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.279 while I'm not a defund the police, I do think 349 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.920 that there are parts of our police forces that we 350 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.519 do need to completely do away with. And I do 351 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.839 think that this militarization, as I said that we do 352 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.720 see with the police, we do need to defund that 353 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:15.359 entirely or at least more tactful than maybe I should 354 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:16.880 say redirect their money. 355 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.079 Because we know, we know that police do a dangerous job. 356 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:23.960 What would what then would you replace it with? Because 357 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.960 if you have, you know, a rapist at on the street, 358 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:29.519 who would you send in to take care of that rapist? 359 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:31.599 Well, of course we're going to send in the police. 360 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:33.680 But the bottom line is is that when we look 361 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:36.240 at the I'm talking about the US, I'm not talking 362 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.839 about your country, but here in the US, one of 363 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.480 the major things that police a time is preoccupied with 364 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.640 is nonviolent drug offenses. And so for that reason, we 365 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:48.960 spend a lot of money and a lot of effort 366 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.440 and a lot of education on how to catch people 367 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.559 with drugs, and it's to me a colossal waste of time. 368 00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:59.839 We need to say, what drug zoot to society? 369 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:05.279 You know, if you know, we're talking about really really minor, 370 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.519 really minor charges like weed and things like that. It's 371 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.599 just it's not like the drug dealers that are dealing 372 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.240 with cocaine or major major problems. But I think that 373 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:19.759 the defund the police movement is a very unfortunate name, 374 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.920 and it gives the whole movement the wrong idea that 375 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.039 we're trying to completely take away all resources from the police. 376 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.319 It's like in Fideld said, it's more of a restructuring 377 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:34.440 and moving money from one place that doesn't truly need it, 378 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.359 in the specific police departments, and moving into something else, 379 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:44.480 like having counselors go and respond to mental health issues 380 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:48.799 and having less charges on these very minor drug charges. 381 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.400 And you know kind of like, yeah, reorganizing the police 382 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.599 would be a better name rather than defund the police. 383 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.720 And let me say that I do believe and I 384 00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.000 understand that you you may have a different opinion on 385 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:04.240 drug legalization, but you know, I look at Portugal and 386 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.720 I look at different situations, and I believe in decriminalizing 387 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.359 all drugs. I think that if we took the drugs 388 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.640 off the streets and put them in Walmart and CBS 389 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:18.759 and Walgreens, and we would have a much safer system 390 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.519 because we wouldn't have police having to respond to those situations. 391 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.359 And yes, there is a problem with that too, but 392 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.799 I think that right now what we're doing is we 393 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.960 still have the problem, and we're not addressing drug addiction. 394 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.559 We're addressing arresting people instead. And I just don't think 395 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:39.519 that's an effective way to deal with a drug problem 396 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.920 are a good way for our police force to act 397 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:45.759 as well. Now, the last thing I want. 398 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:47.880 To come out real quick. 399 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:52.119 So the police are trained for life threatening situations, right, 400 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:54.920 and so they have to make snap judgments really quickly 401 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:57.720