Speaker 1: The Team House with your hopes. Jack Murphy and David Park. Hello, folks,
Speaker 1: welcome to episode three hundred and ninety one of The
Speaker 1: Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with tonight's guest Hailey Gibbons.
Speaker 1: We're really excited to have on the show first female
Speaker 1: Army ranger. As I was describing to Haley before the show,
Speaker 1: we didn't even have them when I was in That's
Speaker 1: how old I am. So this is a new thing.
Speaker 1: We're all adapting. But no, in all seriousness, I'm really
Speaker 1: excited to have Haley on the show today. She went
Speaker 1: to West Point, she served in conventional units, she served
Speaker 1: in the Ranger regiment, did all this different stuff. Was
Speaker 1: one of the early you know, it sounds like one
Speaker 1: of the first women that attended Ranger school actually or
Speaker 1: went down that pipeline. So, Haley, thank you for joining
Speaker 1: us on the show tonight.
Speaker 2: Of course, I'm excited to be here, and I did
Speaker 2: to get to know you a little bit better and
Speaker 2: talk about stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, so let's talk a little bit. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a very like I'm sure we'll talk about it,
Speaker 1: but this is like a very i mean, let's face it,
Speaker 1: it's an unconventional path for a woman to take in
Speaker 1: our society even today, And I'm just kind of curious,
Speaker 1: what was it that sort of led you towards military
Speaker 1: service and in an elite unit at that What was
Speaker 1: it about you that kind of or your life that
Speaker 1: sort of led you in that direction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so very very different, very unique.
Speaker 2: I mean not that a lot of women identify to
Speaker 2: this story kind of. I am the youngest of three daughters.
Speaker 2: I was born and raised in Bellingham, Washington. Not familiar
Speaker 2: with military really at all growing up. And when it
Speaker 2: came time to figure out what college or I wanted
Speaker 2: to go to, I was slipping through those like big
Speaker 2: college books. And my middle sir, who's a brainiac. She's
Speaker 2: an aeronautical engineer, astronautical an engineer, just like insanely smart.
Speaker 3: I was more of the jock of the family.
Speaker 2: She was. I like, saw West Point and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 2: this is so cool. They get a workout every day.
Speaker 3: I want to go. I want to get six pack.
Speaker 3: This is gonna be awesome.
Speaker 2: And my sister she was like, Heyley, you won't be
Speaker 2: able to get in. And just like many youngest siblings,
Speaker 2: many women with chips on their shoulder. That's all motivation
Speaker 2: I needed to apply with the support of my parents.
Speaker 2: They were like shocked, but my dad was like, let's go.
Speaker 2: This is awesome. I'm here to support it. So it
Speaker 2: was the only college I applied to, which is very
Speaker 2: Lindsay Danilac, who you talk to that this is kind
Speaker 2: of the same story as her, So very odd. But
Speaker 2: got in and went to West Point. It was definitely
Speaker 2: a culture shock. I called it a command sergeant major sir.
Speaker 2: So that was like the first time I was really
Speaker 2: screamed at. I'll never forget it. But I loved it.
Speaker 2: I loved the physicality of it. I loved the team
Speaker 2: aspect of the military because growing up I played competitive
Speaker 2: soccer basketball. TRAP have always been on a team, so
Speaker 2: falling into that in my college years is actually perfect
Speaker 2: for me and I loved it.
Speaker 1: And so West Point, if I recall correctly, I was
Speaker 1: enlisted nug there's a mandatory like engineering degree the easiest ones.
Speaker 2: There's like nuclear engineering, structural engineering, and I chose Systems engineering,
Speaker 2: which is kind of like operations and that kind of
Speaker 2: fits how my brain works. I commissioned as a Lotus station,
Speaker 2: which the system's background really helped in My degree was business,
Speaker 2: so very general. But one thing I knew I wanted
Speaker 2: to have out after the Army was to have options.
Speaker 2: And that was like another thing, a motivating thing that
Speaker 2: I wanted to go to West Point four or was
Speaker 2: to know that I would have options, and like the
Speaker 2: West Point network is like top of the line, best
Speaker 2: of the best once you're in the civilian world. So
Speaker 2: I kind of have a little bit of foresight, I
Speaker 2: guess in choosing that path. But it was business and system.
Speaker 1: Engineering, and two sports are mandatory, right A sport, I
Speaker 1: think a sport Okay, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, like I said, I was an athlete, always
Speaker 2: have been, still am. And during our summer training there
Speaker 2: was a thing called open athletics. So during our like
Speaker 2: basic training BEAST, I don't know what the acronym stands for,
Speaker 2: but they would call it BEAST. You were allowed to
Speaker 2: go like play football with the football team and all
Speaker 2: the recruits, go play basketball with the basketball team and
Speaker 2: all the recruits. And as a soccer player, I went
Speaker 2: to the soccer team with the soccer girls. And I'm fast,
Speaker 2: I have a motor. I outwork most people. And when
Speaker 2: we were doing the conditioning drills. A soccer coach was
Speaker 2: like pulled me aside and she was like, Heyley, I
Speaker 2: know you're not a recruit, but if you keep pushing
Speaker 2: these girls like you did, there's a spot for you
Speaker 2: on the team. So I was able to walk onto
Speaker 2: the soccer team freshman year. I did get kicked off
Speaker 2: at the end of that year, but that's okay. Later
Speaker 2: on I joined the cheer team with my best friend Jasmine.
Speaker 2: So the last two years I cheered for West Point,
Speaker 2: so I got to travel to all the games. We
Speaker 2: were basically like celebrities. It was awesome falling around the
Speaker 2: football team. We would go to the Pentagon cheer for
Speaker 2: all the Pentagon people. It was very cool, very unique. Also,
Speaker 2: not a lot of people know that the army team
Speaker 2: has cheerleaders.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I didn't know that. Any funny stories about
Speaker 1: West Point about getting demerits or any other funny stuff
Speaker 1: that happened during your time there.
Speaker 3: So not really funny. Kind of retrospective actually.
Speaker 2: So one of the reasons why I got kicked off
Speaker 2: the soccer team was I got in trouble and a
Speaker 2: freshman year it was for something academic. I didn't cite
Speaker 2: a paper properly, and when I was confronted with it,
Speaker 2: I fully admitted it. I was like, yeah, I used
Speaker 2: that person's map overlay for my PowerPoint and I.
Speaker 3: Got in trouble.
Speaker 2: I had to do a like big board, and end
Speaker 2: of freshman year I was deemed a six month turnback.
Speaker 2: So all throughout West Point I had that just like
Speaker 2: looming over me. And I didn't even tell my parents,
Speaker 2: so I was just like suffering in silence. But I
Speaker 2: was damned if I wasn't going to graduate with my class,
Speaker 2: because half the reason that you go to West Point
Speaker 2: is to throw your hat in the air, like this
Speaker 2: photo right there, like you need that photo.
Speaker 3: And so I was like, I'm not going to not
Speaker 3: get that photo.
Speaker 1: What is that term six month throwback? What does that mean?
Speaker 2: So it means you have to stay at west Point
Speaker 2: for six more months after your class graduates, So it's
Speaker 2: like turnback almost or like super senior.
Speaker 3: And I was I was embarrassed. I was ashamed.
Speaker 2: It like wasn't who I identified as, like as a
Speaker 2: December grad. And so I worked so hard the next
Speaker 2: three years to get reinstated with my class, and I
Speaker 2: did a bunch of stuff and it all kind of
Speaker 2: worked out because that's when I found out I was
Speaker 2: really good at doing like tactical things. I joined the
Speaker 2: Sandhurst team to kind of brown nose to my like
Speaker 2: NCOs that are in charge of me.
Speaker 3: The major that was my tack. I and Sandhurst is.
Speaker 2: Like a military competition that you do with a bunch
Speaker 2: of colleges.
Speaker 3: The Sandhurst College.
Speaker 2: Over in England comes over and it's a like a
Speaker 2: weekend long competition. You're rocking, you're shooting, you're one rope bridging,
Speaker 2: you're land navvying, all this stuff. And that was like
Speaker 2: my first real competitiveness towards military things and I was
Speaker 2: successful at it.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of like my.
Speaker 2: Trouble story but not very funny, but it helped identify
Speaker 2: some skill sets that definitely.
Speaker 3: Helped me later on in life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I mean teaching you some of the perseverance
Speaker 1: that you needed later on, for sure.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So graduate from west Point and then what's the next
Speaker 1: stop for you?
Speaker 2: So I graduated from West Point and I commissioned as
Speaker 2: a transportation officer. I was very logistic, system minded, and
Speaker 2: that was my first choice.
Speaker 3: I was so excited.
Speaker 2: And when you commission as a transportation officer, you go
Speaker 2: down to Fort Lee. I commissioned in twenty fourteen, and
Speaker 2: that was before women were allowed in combat arms. If
Speaker 2: I was allowed to go to combat a combat arms branch,
Speaker 2: probably would have done infantry, just because I found great
Speaker 2: success in tactics Physically fit, I was ranked very high
Speaker 2: in our class physically and militarily.
Speaker 3: Academically not so much. But that's okay.
Speaker 1: But uh, ranger material, what was that ranger material?
Speaker 3: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Exactly A tough ranger, strong ranger, not the smart one.
Speaker 2: But I went to Fort Lee and that's where the
Speaker 2: Logistics schoolhouse is, and that's where I learned all about
Speaker 2: being a transportation officer, which was really cool. And I
Speaker 2: had one of my best friends there with me. And
Speaker 2: that was in the summer of twenty fourteen, and that's
Speaker 2: kind of right around when women were allowed to go
Speaker 2: to Ranger school, and of course I wanted to go.
Speaker 3: I knew I could.
Speaker 2: I always looked upon the ranger tab is something that
Speaker 2: like I knew I could have and I knew I
Speaker 2: could achieve, and.
Speaker 3: I wanted that record.
Speaker 2: I wanted like when you walk in the door, people
Speaker 2: see that tab and they're like, okay, awesome, and we
Speaker 2: like Fort Lee.
Speaker 3: They put together like a.
Speaker 2: Pre Ranger pt situation in the morning, So I went, I.
Speaker 3: Tried out for it.
Speaker 2: I got a slot, and so every morning I would
Speaker 2: be doing like hard PTE with all the guys that
Speaker 2: wanted to go to Ranger School. So out of Transportation Bullock.
Speaker 2: At the end of the day, none of us got slots.
Speaker 2: We would have to go to our units. And then
Speaker 2: so after six months at Fort Lee, I went down
Speaker 2: to Fort Hood and served in the forty nine Transportation
Speaker 2: Battalion in a Expeditionary Sustainment Command.
Speaker 3: So that's where I was, and.
Speaker 2: That's kind of where I got my first slot or
Speaker 2: try at Ranger School.
Speaker 1: And what was so twenty fifteen, I mean ten years
Speaker 1: ago was early on as far as this going on.
Speaker 1: I mean, what was that sort of that process like
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was interesting. I mean I was a dumb,
Speaker 2: clueless lieutenant. I had no idea about what a school's
Speaker 2: MCO was, what an ATAR slot is. So I did
Speaker 2: a dumb thing and my friend was like, oh, Haley,
Speaker 2: you're having trouble. Just email the guy in charge of
Speaker 2: MCOE at Fort Benning and MCOE is Maneuver Center of Excellence,
Speaker 2: which is like the main command at Fort Benning. So
Speaker 2: Butterbar Haley emails the three star general at MCOE and
Speaker 2: I'm like.
Speaker 3: Hey, sir, I'm trying to get a slot at ranger school.
Speaker 2: And luckily General Miller is really good friends with my
Speaker 2: best friend's dad, so I didn't get too much in
Speaker 2: trouble from General Miller.
Speaker 3: My command team.
Speaker 2: On the other hand, if they could take me out
Speaker 2: back and like beat me, they would have. Like it
Speaker 2: was in looking back on it, I am mortified that
Speaker 2: I did that. I am. I still have the emails
Speaker 2: just to a reminder to stay humble and don't do
Speaker 2: dumb things like oh my god.
Speaker 3: And then I had to wait a few months.
Speaker 2: I got a normal slot through our school's NCO, and
Speaker 2: I was with the first way to go to our attack,
Speaker 2: so that in twenty fifteen, women had to go to
Speaker 2: our attack Ranger Training Assessment course. I believe it's the pre.
Speaker 3: Ranger course at for Betting put on by the National Guard.
Speaker 2: And so I was there with my best friend Jasmine
Speaker 2: and behaved Christ So we were the first way for
Speaker 2: women to go through our attack. Unfortunately, the like third
Speaker 2: or second day, got a really bad concussion and med dropped.
Speaker 2: But Shae Hager, she was the one that actually found
Speaker 2: me unconscious, and she was also my platoon leader at
Speaker 2: west Point, so it was all very like kids met almost.
Speaker 1: What happened? Did you fall off an obstacle on the
Speaker 1: oh course or something?
Speaker 2: So I wish it was that valiant. I fell off
Speaker 2: my bunk bed.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I know.
Speaker 2: I had a large those like PX shower shoes that
Speaker 2: you get that are just like rubber, and they were
Speaker 2: like five sizes too big. I was wearing them. I
Speaker 2: was trying to climb up to the top bunk and
Speaker 2: the shoes slipped. I tried to grab and I smacked
Speaker 2: my head on the I think it was the opposite
Speaker 2: bed or the floor.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: It was terrible embarrassing, but everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 1: Yeah, geez, I'm sorry to hear that. That's crazy. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's again another setback, something that you kind of
Speaker 1: had to like not start all over again. But it
Speaker 1: kind of feels like that at the time. I say
Speaker 1: that as a as a ranger school recycle myself. So
Speaker 1: you what, you went back to your transport unit at
Speaker 1: that Point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I went back to Fort Hood and a
Speaker 2: lot of as most people in the military, they'd suffer from,
Speaker 2: like mental health issues, depression, and looking back on it,
Speaker 2: I now recognize that that is like what I was
Speaker 2: suffering with, like after this like big loss, definitely in
Speaker 2: a dark spot, and that was kind of the same
Speaker 2: back at West Point after I got in trouble, but
Speaker 2: I just kept my head down and I was just
Speaker 2: ready to get out of Fort Hood. So I survived
Speaker 2: my lieutenant years. I performed well, but I wanted to
Speaker 2: get out of Fort Hood. So I was either going
Speaker 2: to try out for a cultural support team person or
Speaker 2: get to Captain's career course. Whatever got me out of
Speaker 2: fourth the earliest, and that was going to Captain screreercourse.
Speaker 2: So I spent about two more years at Forthood.
Speaker 3: I was in a movement control team.
Speaker 2: It's like a very weird first unit to be and
Speaker 2: it's like twenty people and you do a bunch of
Speaker 2: I was like in charge of an airport at once
Speaker 2: and then the railhead the other day, so it's a
Speaker 2: lot of Yeah, it's a lot of weird first assignments
Speaker 2: and a weird first look at the military. I had
Speaker 2: no idea what a brigade combat team was really or
Speaker 2: like how they fit. It was like very weird in
Speaker 2: the logistics world for me to like grasp the big army.
Speaker 2: And I really had no idea about range regiment at
Speaker 2: the time either. But I finished my time at Fort Hood,
Speaker 2: I go back to Fort Lee, I do six months
Speaker 2: of Captain's career course and then I go to Korea.
Speaker 2: And at that time, it was about year four in
Speaker 2: my army contract. And had a great time in Korea.
Speaker 3: I was a what was the job?
Speaker 2: I was the logistics liaison to the Korean Army, so
Speaker 2: I got to work directly with the Korean Army headquarters.
Speaker 2: And I was at Camp youngen At, which is like
Speaker 2: a very small detachment, and I got to live in
Speaker 2: the city. I was in charge of all the people there.
Speaker 2: I got to travel a bunch. I was like fully
Speaker 2: immersed in the Korean culture. So it was an amazing
Speaker 2: experience one that I like. When I found out I
Speaker 2: was going to create I cried. I was like, I
Speaker 2: can't go graze school. But it was definitely awesome and
Speaker 2: a great year. And then I went to Fort Lewis
Speaker 2: after that, and I was like this is perfect. I'm
Speaker 2: from Washington, I'll get out of my I'll get out
Speaker 2: of the Army at five years in my home state,
Speaker 2: Like it couldn't be more perfect.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this was sort of like a big decision
Speaker 1: point for you.
Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, and all along I was like, I
Speaker 2: can't wait to get out of the Army. This is
Speaker 2: going to be amazing. The minute my feet like improcessed
Speaker 2: second Brigade Support Battalion and to two I was like,
Speaker 2: here's my FRAD paperwork, take it please, and my REFRAD.
Speaker 3: So refrat is request from active duty.
Speaker 2: And since I completed my five years, I was able
Speaker 2: to get out and go do whatever I wanted.
Speaker 3: I submitted the packet, I had my like ets Lea.
Speaker 2: Then I was doing hiring our heroes and had like
Speaker 2: a Nike internship lined up down in Beaverton, organ So
Speaker 2: it was gonna be awesome. But when my refrad paperwork
Speaker 2: was processing, they were like, okay, Hayley, go up to
Speaker 2: the brigade headquarters and go help out the four shop
Speaker 2: up there. We'll get someone else who needs a KD
Speaker 2: like Katie time in the VSB.
Speaker 3: And so I was like okay, sure, So I go
Speaker 3: up to.
Speaker 2: The brigade staff, and that's where I met my like
Speaker 2: one of my favorite people, Major Gillian Burke. She was
Speaker 2: the Brigade S four, a West Point grad, just a
Speaker 2: fierce of a leader and just a woman so intelligent.
Speaker 2: And this is like the first time I ever had
Speaker 2: a mentor in the Army, which is wild, Like five
Speaker 2: years in never really had a mentor. Granted I don't
Speaker 2: think I like sought hard enough for one, but I
Speaker 2: didn't know the importance of mentorship then.
Speaker 3: And she told me, Hayley, are you sure you don't want.
Speaker 2: To stay in like we need someone to take a
Speaker 2: company command of this FSC like they're hurting and we
Speaker 2: need someone. And I'm like, yes, ma'am, I'm good. I
Speaker 2: don't want to do it. But I just kept seeing
Speaker 2: how important she made logistics in a brigade operation. Like
Speaker 2: she would walk into the the S three like conference room,
Speaker 2: everyone would stop and look at Major Burk Okay, Joe,
Speaker 2: what are we doing? Which is rare for someone for
Speaker 2: a brigade staff to look at a logistiction for the answers.
Speaker 2: But she was just brilliant at her job. She knew
Speaker 2: exactly what needed to be done. She knew where to
Speaker 2: get all the resources and how to connect them and
Speaker 2: how to create the lethality and the execution needed for
Speaker 2: the commander's end state. So it was just very cool
Speaker 2: to see. And I was like, dang, maybe I do
Speaker 2: want to stay in. Like she's that ass. This is awesome.
Speaker 2: And so I remember I was running one day and
Speaker 2: I picked up my cell phone while I was running
Speaker 2: and I called her and I'm like, okay, ma'am, I
Speaker 2: think I want to stay in, And she.
Speaker 3: Was like, this is awesome.
Speaker 2: So even though my packet was already approved to with HQDA,
Speaker 2: I already had my outdate, I pulled it. And that's
Speaker 2: when things kind of changed for me for the better.
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Speaker 1: Do you think some of the like kind of like
Speaker 1: push pull with you personally at the time that it
Speaker 1: had something to do with in the back of your
Speaker 1: mind you wanted to sort of be like the Gi Jane,
Speaker 1: But those avenues weren't totally open or like you said,
Speaker 1: like maybe if you had a mentor that came from
Speaker 1: that world, maybe it would be a little bit different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't say like I wanted to be the
Speaker 2: Gi Jane. I just know I hadn't reached my full potential, right,
Speaker 2: and I wasn't brave enough at the time to like
Speaker 2: speak it or to like create that space for myself
Speaker 2: to grow in. I just kind of took what was
Speaker 2: handed to me, and I was like, Okay, yeah, let's whatever.
Speaker 2: We'll make the best of the situation. Grow where you're planted.
Speaker 2: But I didn't really seek the potential that I knew
Speaker 2: I could like do, and I would always, like I said,
Speaker 2: I would look at the Ranger tab and I would
Speaker 2: always be envious of it because you walk into a
Speaker 2: room and you get that instant credibility. And then when
Speaker 2: I went and took a company command, all the fellow
Speaker 2: all my other company commanders, they were all lieutenants and
Speaker 2: Range Regiment and so they had that scroll and I
Speaker 2: was like, wait, what's that And they're like, Hayley, you're
Speaker 2: an idiot. It's sent me for the Range Regiment. Da
Speaker 2: da da Dadah, we're the coolest because we were lieutenants there,
Speaker 2: like get with the picture. And then that's kind of
Speaker 2: like when I saw that and I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: that's what I want. I want people to like know
Speaker 2: that I can do something. And as as superficial as
Speaker 2: it is, I mean, I have a ranger tab right
Speaker 2: above me, Like as superficial as those like visual markers are,
Speaker 2: they do carry such weight.
Speaker 1: It represented the thing that you wanted to do in
Speaker 1: the army.
Speaker 3: All along, right, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: So first you got to go and do company command time.
Speaker 1: So what was that like?
Speaker 3: Oh, company command.
Speaker 2: Everyone says it's the best job in the army, and
Speaker 2: I think they're lying.
Speaker 3: I definitely think they're lying. I I learned a lot
Speaker 3: about myself.
Speaker 2: I learned how I didn't want to lead, and I
Speaker 2: learned that there's always room for growth. I was a
Speaker 2: company commander, ford support company in an infantry battalion in
Speaker 2: a striker brigade combat team. So my company was always moving.
Speaker 2: There was like never a like maintenance thing that wasn't happening,
Speaker 2: fuel thing that wasn't happening. We were always running and
Speaker 2: gunning and helping to support our.
Speaker 3: Guys and so it was our team.
Speaker 2: It was. It was an awesome job and like very
Speaker 2: like we were in the weeds of it. But I
Speaker 2: learned so much about myself and I'm not really that
Speaker 2: proud of how I like looking back on it. I
Speaker 2: definitely like, Hailey, you could have done a lot better.
Speaker 2: You could have been that leader that they needed, but
Speaker 2: uh I, I just didn't know any any better. I think,
Speaker 2: uh I definitely yelled a fair share. I'm so sorry
Speaker 2: about that. I one second. Uh I even during my
Speaker 2: change of command, like getting out of company cammand and
Speaker 2: my my Battalian command was like, yeah, Haley, she can,
Speaker 2: she can. Really, Uh I don't want to say yell
Speaker 2: at people. Every what he said, he said it way
Speaker 2: more eloquently, but yeah, and and instead of leading the
Speaker 2: way I wanted to, I was just kind of fighting,
Speaker 2: fighting for fighting for air at that point. And I
Speaker 2: was being selfish too, because I knew early on in
Speaker 2: my company command time that I wanted to go to
Speaker 2: range a regiment, wanted to go to ranger school. Whether
Speaker 2: or not I got selected for a ranger regiment, I
Speaker 2: was still going to go to ranger school just to
Speaker 2: kind of prove to myself that I can do it.
Speaker 2: But company command, you learned so much about yourself and
Speaker 2: you try your best to support your soldiers.
Speaker 3: It's in company command.
Speaker 2: If you're not an empathetic leader, like you're you're not
Speaker 2: doing doing it right because you're leading your soldiers. It's
Speaker 2: their lives, whether or not you're deployed in a combat
Speaker 2: zone or just in garrison. And like it was just
Speaker 2: so hard, especially like having to say no when a
Speaker 2: soldier wanted to go to their grammar's funeral. I was like,
Speaker 2: I can't leave for my I'm so sorry, and like
Speaker 2: all I wanted to do is like buy the plane
Speaker 2: ticket for them to go. So as as a very
Speaker 2: empathetic person, it was very hard for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can see that long days and
Speaker 1: did you you do? Did you deploy with that unit?
Speaker 3: No? We did, uh not deploy.
Speaker 1: No, But you're you're just busy like j r X
Speaker 1: and all those kinds of exercises.
Speaker 3: NTC j r C.
Speaker 2: We planned two Pacific Pathway missions and that was really cool,
Speaker 2: dealing with like foreign nations coordinating all that supply stuff
Speaker 2: and logistics. That was a very cool, uh thing that
Speaker 2: I got to do.
Speaker 3: But no, I didn't.
Speaker 1: Deploy all right, So on that note, biggest lesson from
Speaker 1: company command time, what would you want to tell your
Speaker 1: younger self be patient, tactical patients. Yes, so as your
Speaker 1: company command time winds down, it sounds like it was
Speaker 1: probably a bit of a relief after you know, eighteen
Speaker 1: hour days for a couple of years. But you had
Speaker 1: wanted to go to Ranger school all along, but now
Speaker 1: you also have this, you know, idea about going to
Speaker 1: the seventy fifth Ranger regimen at the same time, sort
Speaker 1: of what was like the next step for you, like
Speaker 1: going to Ranger School and RASP.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I luckily I had Major Gillian Burke and then
Speaker 2: my brigade commander at the time, Colonel Jonathan Chung. They
Speaker 2: I told him my idea during a counseling and They're like, absolutely, Hayley,
Speaker 2: if you don't go, we will be so disappointed in you.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, say, you're going to be disappointed in me,
Speaker 2: and I'll do anything. So I'm like, Okay, I'm absolutely going.
Speaker 2: And I got my battalion commanders buy and also and
Speaker 2: he was awesome.
Speaker 3: I've had some great leaders, but.
Speaker 2: It was I had a phone interview with the regimental
Speaker 2: esport and that went well, and he was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: submit your packet, it'll go through the process. If it
Speaker 2: gets approved, then you're you have a slot at regimental selection.
Speaker 2: And so I complete the packet. It's this big packet.
Speaker 2: You have to do all this stuff and then you
Speaker 2: have to do the PT test, do all these things.
Speaker 2: Submitted it and then I heard back like a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks later, I think, and I was given a
Speaker 2: slot and it was in early September, and my company
Speaker 2: we were at in NTC right up until then, so
Speaker 2: I had to leave NTC early to go to regimental selection.
Speaker 2: So it was very interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no train up for that go no, I.
Speaker 2: Mean I was doing push ups behind the field kitchen,
Speaker 2: so it was.
Speaker 3: It was great.
Speaker 1: So the Ranger Assessment and Selection Selection Program, I believe
Speaker 1: it's RASS two that the officers go to at that time.
Speaker 1: Were there any women serving in the Ranger Regiment? Like
Speaker 1: what year was this?
Speaker 2: This was twenty twenty, okay, And there were the Regimental
Speaker 2: psychologist she a woman. Also west Point grad the Regimental
Speaker 2: S two and a woman, and then there was an
Speaker 2: NCO in the Intelligence Battalion that she hadn't gone to
Speaker 2: Ranger School yet, but she was serving in the Armed.
Speaker 1: That's the awesome thing about the Ranger Regiment is that
Speaker 1: you know, even the cooks have Ranger tabs and tan
Speaker 1: berets because they went to the same selection course you did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was another thing that kind of drew
Speaker 2: me to a Ranger regiment because I think about like
Speaker 2: Special Forces being a green Beret. But if I, like,
Speaker 2: you go to the the group support battalion and you're
Speaker 2: not a part of the like you don't wear the
Speaker 2: green gray. And I was like, I want to wear
Speaker 2: the tan berat. I will be I want to be
Speaker 2: a Ranger. I don't want to just be support to
Speaker 2: ranger regimens. So that was one of the cool things
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: And I remember my friends they're like, hey, do you
Speaker 3: want to be a Ranger?
Speaker 2: They're crazy, and I was like, sat, exactly, perfect funny.
Speaker 1: So I tell us about RASP too.
Speaker 3: RASP was very interesting. Nothing like RASP one.
Speaker 2: God bless those people who suffer and endure all that.
Speaker 2: I heard all about the that in Ranger School.
Speaker 3: But RASP too. It is a three ish week selection process.
Speaker 2: There's a physical aspect, academic aspect, and a board at
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 3: I can't like give the.
Speaker 2: Details of it, but one of the hardest workouts I've
Speaker 2: ever done, like one of the hardest, like twelve hours
Speaker 2: of my life have been.
Speaker 3: It was in rasp too. It was it was a lot.
Speaker 2: I was the only woman in the rasp plast There
Speaker 2: was about twenty of us, and this one instance was
Speaker 2: really funny.
Speaker 3: The whole.
Speaker 2: Quiet professionals, I didn't really didn't really clock that off
Speaker 2: the bat, and now I get shipped for it for
Speaker 2: posting online. But that's neither here nor there. But when
Speaker 2: we were doing one of the first workouts, there was
Speaker 2: this bigger chief worn officer in my squad and we
Speaker 2: were doing like jumping over the eight foot wall, going
Speaker 2: up a caving ladder, climbing a rope, uh dragon dummies
Speaker 2: and everything or Randy's and we were in last place.
Speaker 2: There was like three squads. We were in last place,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I can't be in last place.
Speaker 2: This isn't good, Like you need to be number one.
Speaker 2: If you're not number one, you're gonna get cut. And
Speaker 2: so I'm cheering on the Chief Warrant officer.
Speaker 3: Trying to get the caning ladder and he's this guy.
Speaker 2: The caving ladder is tiny, and I'm like, come on,
Speaker 2: number eight or I forget his name or what I said.
Speaker 2: And then one of the ranger and CEOs just stone cold,
Speaker 2: deadpan face. He was like, roster number eight, this is
Speaker 2: not cheerleading camp. And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I should just.
Speaker 3: Go home now. This is mortifying. Like it was, it
Speaker 3: was awful.
Speaker 2: And then when we were like finished the event, we
Speaker 2: didn't we I can't think we came in last for
Speaker 2: this like little Morning Pete session.
Speaker 3: But we were walking back.
Speaker 2: In one of the my buddies who I'm still friends
Speaker 2: with now he was.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, yeah, you know, quiet professionals don't cheer and
Speaker 3: it was just mortifying.
Speaker 1: You know that's because I would point out that's because
Speaker 1: it's selection and it's supposed to be sort of an
Speaker 1: individual event. You're being assessed individually. But I mean, the
Speaker 1: thing I do like about the range of regiment. As
Speaker 1: much shit as we all talk about each other, there
Speaker 1: is a lot of like bro support, you know that
Speaker 1: you're my boy blue, you know that kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's one of the things I love about
Speaker 2: it in like range regiment, like you are expected to
Speaker 2: be the best, but to be the best team. And
Speaker 2: that's what range of regiment is. It's one of the
Speaker 2: best teams in the entire world. But to be like
Speaker 2: a good teammate, you have to be solid yourself. So
Speaker 2: that's where that like individual aspect comes in. But for me,
Speaker 2: like my strong team background, like and of course I
Speaker 2: was a cheerleader, that just my natural personality kind of
Speaker 2: came out. So I was just being myself, which is
Speaker 2: I'm glad I was even though the cheerleading camp comment
Speaker 2: was in my peer ee vals, but I still made it,
Speaker 2: so it's okay.
Speaker 1: So I know, you can't get too much into the
Speaker 1: specifics of you know, I've heard there's like problem solving
Speaker 1: events and things like that, and they want to see
Speaker 1: will you panic? You know, how do you handle different
Speaker 1: situations and things? How was it, you know, when when
Speaker 1: you got to the board, how did that go at
Speaker 1: that point? Were you nervous?
Speaker 3: I wasn't nervous. The board went very well.
Speaker 2: I yes, I practiced answering questions well. I looked up
Speaker 2: all the little flash cards about board questions that I
Speaker 2: was prepared. But to be confident, you must be prepared.
Speaker 2: But I walked in. I was proud of how I
Speaker 2: performed throughout the entire assessment selection and I was just honest.
Speaker 2: I was me. I didn't try to be like a
Speaker 2: Broie version of me or some inauthentic something. It was funny.
Speaker 2: I like, sit down at the you like walk in.
Speaker 2: You sit down and they're like, Ranger Gibbons, are you nervous?
Speaker 2: And I was like no, and I was like, actually, so, yes,
Speaker 2: I am a bit nervous. And then the whole board lasts.
Speaker 2: But it pays to show up authentically as yourself, and
Speaker 2: I'm proud that I was able to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they know if you're BS and and so they
Speaker 1: you get selected. But there's a caveat to this, of course.
Speaker 2: Yes. I after the board, they they let me know
Speaker 2: that you are selected for service and seventy for the
Speaker 2: Range of Regiment as a conditional hire. You need to
Speaker 2: pass ranger school before you are allowed to come serve
Speaker 2: and Range Regiment. And during the board that I said,
Speaker 2: that's one of my weaknesses. I don't I'm not coming
Speaker 2: in here with a ranger tab. I'm not coming in
Speaker 2: here with a deployment patch. I'm coming in here just
Speaker 2: as myself and my expertise knowledge with logistics. That's really
Speaker 2: all I have. And they were like, I like that
Speaker 2: self awareness. And so I had the sixty two day
Speaker 2: Ranger School like beast in front of me after that.
Speaker 2: So I finish up RASP, I pack all my things up,
Speaker 2: I leave a couple of toenails behind, and I go
Speaker 2: back to Fort Lewis to train for a few months.
Speaker 3: I graduate or I RASP.
Speaker 2: Was done in September, and then I get a slot
Speaker 2: in December to go to.
Speaker 3: Seventy fifth pre Ranger course.
Speaker 1: So that's fun. By the way, what was that the
Speaker 1: seventy fifth pre Ranger course. It's lots of fun.
Speaker 3: It's amazing. It's so fun.
Speaker 2: I in all all jokes aside it was.
Speaker 3: It was great. Living in the barracks for like three
Speaker 3: extra days. Having to shave my head.
Speaker 2: Earlier, that wasn't fun. But I show up to for
Speaker 2: betting with my little Duffel bags and all my paperwork,
Speaker 2: and they're like, and I shaved my head the day before.
Speaker 2: I show up in the one of the and you're
Speaker 2: just standing in line with all your things and you're
Speaker 2: all excited and nervous. And then one of the NCOs
Speaker 2: comes over and he's like Richard Gibbons.
Speaker 3: I'm like Roger Sergeant.
Speaker 2: He's like, your blood work's wrong, and I was like what,
Speaker 2: And so they're like, yeah, we're gonna have to drop
Speaker 2: you from this pre Ranger course unless you can get
Speaker 2: your blood work done. So I like grab my paperwork.
Speaker 2: I go to the on Post hospital and I I
Speaker 2: try my darnis to get that blood work done on Sunday,
Speaker 2: but it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: So I have to wait three more weeks.
Speaker 2: And then I go through the pre Ranger course and
Speaker 2: so I shaved my head three weeks early.
Speaker 1: But oh wow, I got to hang out for being
Speaker 1: for three weeks.
Speaker 3: Come on, you know, and it's a great place. So yeah, wonderful,
Speaker 3: but pre Ranger was awesome.
Speaker 2: Any if anyone is trying to go to Ranger School,
Speaker 2: go to a pre ranger course.
Speaker 3: Most installations offer them.
Speaker 2: But if you can't get an a TAR slot to
Speaker 2: seventy fifth sert, you will be successful. At Ranger School.
Speaker 2: They teach you and prepare you so well. You have
Speaker 2: to sleep in the field a few extra days. You're
Speaker 2: like being pushed and learning everything. But it's it was
Speaker 2: so awesome. And one of I think one of the
Speaker 2: best things coming out of cert and going right into
Speaker 2: Ranger School was all the dudes that I just went
Speaker 2: through SIRT with went with me to Ranger School and
Speaker 2: I excuse me, dudes. And then there was another woman
Speaker 2: who went to two seven to five, so I did
Speaker 2: have a.
Speaker 3: Ranger woman battle buddy with me.
Speaker 2: We were both in our thirties hanging out with a
Speaker 2: bunch of eighteen twenty year olds, so it was it
Speaker 2: was very funny.
Speaker 1: And I should point out I know that you know this, Haley,
Speaker 1: but just there's maybe young women or young men watching
Speaker 1: this thinking about becoming a ranger. If you're an officer,
Speaker 1: you have to go and be ranger tabbed before you
Speaker 1: can serve in the Ranger Regiment. If you're enlisted, you
Speaker 1: will go to RASP one and serve some time in
Speaker 1: the Ranger Regiment a couple of years, go to Ranger School,
Speaker 1: come back and then get a team leader, squad leader position,
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. Just want to point
Speaker 1: that out to some of the young folks that are
Speaker 1: listening to this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's awesome because like all the guys that.
Speaker 2: The other Ranger woman and myself were with like we
Speaker 2: were all in the same boat kind of. We were
Speaker 2: all just as excited, like this was our first shot
Speaker 2: getting to go to Ranger school. So everyone, well my second,
Speaker 2: everyone was just very excited and having all those Ranger
Speaker 2: buddies with you going into Ranger school, there's a sense
Speaker 2: of familiarity. You have like twenty battle buddies going in
Speaker 2: there with you. You can kind of like like help
Speaker 2: each other out during like zero day or all that stuff.
Speaker 2: So that was like one of the best things coming
Speaker 2: out of pre Ranger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so pre Ranger you back out at Cold Range too.
Speaker 1: You just finished with that. Yeah, now you're going back.
Speaker 2: Back to the cold range. Yeah. We Uh, we had
Speaker 2: to do a bunch of landav and one of my
Speaker 2: I am so bad at land now, but I practiced
Speaker 2: a bunch and and that's another thing about uh being
Speaker 2: in range regiment. If you don't know something or if
Speaker 2: you ask a question, people will like literally stop whatever
Speaker 2: they are doing and make sure you learn it, you
Speaker 2: know it well, and that you're confident with it. I
Speaker 2: remember this first sergeant that I was out like doing
Speaker 2: land nov one day and he was there. He was like,
Speaker 2: you you seem like you don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Roger, first Sergeant, you help me,
Speaker 2: and He's like yeah. And that was the first time
Speaker 2: I learned about attack points, and I was like, how
Speaker 2: did I not know about this in my like last
Speaker 2: seven years of army.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Coal.
Speaker 2: Range we did a bunch of land nav team team exercises,
Speaker 2: platoon tactics, squad tactics, all of that. So we became
Speaker 2: very comfortable with like being in the field carrying that weight,
Speaker 2: trying to do squad on platoon tactics.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you had fun, because my experience was
Speaker 1: more like a yeah, fuck this place. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean I'm only semi kidding. I mean, yes, you do
Speaker 1: warn a ton out there. It's hard, but you weren't.
Speaker 2: A lot yeah, And I mean I of course stood
Speaker 2: out like a sore thumb, being a woman, being like
Speaker 2: over thirty, So of course there's a lot of pressure
Speaker 2: on me, and I definitely I leaned on the guys
Speaker 2: and I made sure I knew everything going into ranger school,
Speaker 2: because like, I wasn't going to be like a liability
Speaker 2: of not knowing squad or platoon tactics, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to be successful.
Speaker 1: So it was it was great, that's that's awesome. And
Speaker 1: so then you get to Ranger School. So we're at
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, twenty twenty one around this time, and again,
Speaker 1: did you have any inkling of how many women had
Speaker 1: graduated Ranger School at this point?
Speaker 3: I was the Yeah, it was about one hundred.
Speaker 2: I was the one hundred and second woman to graduate
Speaker 2: Ranger School.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is how far back in time I am.
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize it was that many.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll talk about the about the regiment, the
Speaker 1: good old days a little later. But so going to
Speaker 1: Ranger School, first week is RAP week. If I recall right,
Speaker 1: out at Camp Darby doing all the physical events and stuff.
Speaker 1: So now you're you're up and running, you're doing it,
Speaker 1: and what going through your mind as they're putting you
Speaker 1: through your paces?
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: Very successful RAP week.
Speaker 2: I did the PT test of course, during the pushups,
Speaker 2: which is what I was most nervous about. The RI
Speaker 2: when I hit like forty eight, he just kept saying
Speaker 2: forty eight, forty eight, forty forty eight and then one.
Speaker 2: But then finally when the timer guy was like five
Speaker 2: four three, He's like, get out ranger and so I'd
Speaker 2: sprint away, but rap week. The things that they don't
Speaker 2: tell you about is how much standing you will be doing.
Speaker 2: You're literally just standing in the bays, on the on
Speaker 2: the little rocks in the overhang areas, just standing there
Speaker 2: waiting for instruction, waiting to get like smoked, waiting for
Speaker 2: your next hit time. And so that's what I like
Speaker 2: wasn't really prepared for. But for everything else, very successful.
Speaker 2: I crushed the five mile. I'm good at running and
Speaker 2: I'm great at rocking. I came in like in ranger school,
Speaker 2: they tell you don't run on the rock, just pass it.
Speaker 2: But I was like, damn, if I'm here, I might
Speaker 2: as well like compete. So I run the whole thing
Speaker 2: and I come in like second on the ruck, and
Speaker 2: you don't get a prize for it, you just get
Speaker 2: a little bit more tired. So I don't do that
Speaker 2: if you're going to go to ranger school.
Speaker 3: But uh, yeah, it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2: And I was there in January, so it was freezing,
Speaker 2: so you're just standing on these little rocks just shivering
Speaker 2: the entire time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I started in January too. It's terrible real
Speaker 1: and so I think maybe this would be a good
Speaker 1: point to talk about, like maybe some of the misconceptions
Speaker 1: that sometimes exist around women going to ranger school and
Speaker 1: becoming rangers. Some of them, like i hate to say
Speaker 1: common knowledge what's called an internet comments that women aren't
Speaker 1: you know, they that their bones break down when they
Speaker 1: rock march, that they don't have enough upper body strength
Speaker 1: to do push ups or pull ups, all these physical events.
Speaker 1: But it sounds like you kind of breeze through it.
Speaker 1: What's the reality of it. Do you need to be
Speaker 1: a unique physical specimen as a woman to make it
Speaker 1: through one of these courses?
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Like, if you know the standards and you train for
Speaker 2: the standards and to exceed them a bit, like you
Speaker 2: will be able to pass if you know, you can
Speaker 2: google the twenty boards, if you learn the twenty boards,
Speaker 2: that's what you're graded on in ranger school, you'll be
Speaker 2: able to pass. You just need to show up prepared.
Speaker 2: The misconceptions and the the the stereotypes that women can't
Speaker 2: meet standards is to me very laughable because when you
Speaker 2: go through the gates on day zero, no one cares
Speaker 2: if you're a woman. My gender did not come up
Speaker 2: once during Ranger School, except for the one time they
Speaker 2: made us separate showers.
Speaker 3: No one cared.
Speaker 2: People looked at me because I was older and had
Speaker 2: like people management skills, and they looked at me because
Speaker 2: I could do an offward in my sleep. Not once
Speaker 2: did an ri I like say anything or treat me
Speaker 2: differently because I was a woman, and none of the
Speaker 2: none of my Ranger buddies did either. So the standards
Speaker 2: are the standards, and you either pass them or you don't,
Speaker 2: whether you're male or female. And people I get these
Speaker 2: comments all the time on like TikTok and Instagram, They're like,
Speaker 2: they lowered the standards for you, they lowered the standards,
Speaker 2: And I'm like, okay, if they lowered them for me,
Speaker 2: then they lowered them for everyone else too, because like,
Speaker 2: there is only one standard, the Ranger standard.
Speaker 3: So it's to me, it's.
Speaker 2: Just people who may have a bruised ego who have
Speaker 2: never been in those formations, in those schools past Ranger School,
Speaker 2: been in Ranger Regiment, been in SFAs selection. It's people
Speaker 2: who have not been at those rooms in those formations,
Speaker 2: are at the table who are threatened by a woman's
Speaker 2: success or just think that we are less then, and
Speaker 2: people will think that and like, I can't change their mind.
Speaker 2: You can show them the proof, you can read to
Speaker 2: them the proof you can actually do it, and they
Speaker 2: will still say, oh, the standards were lowered, Oh you
Speaker 2: didn't do those pushups. So and I'm just like, go
Speaker 2: for it. My resume speaks for itself, if you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean some of the vitriol that you know,
Speaker 1: I see female soldiers get online, it's like pretty over
Speaker 1: the top, to say the least. And yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you're right that there's a part of it that maybe
Speaker 1: these are guys that wanted to be in the military
Speaker 1: but didn't think they could hack it, or maybe they
Speaker 1: wanted to go to ranger school but couldn't, or maybe
Speaker 1: even worse, guys that did go to rangers, but they
Speaker 1: feel like just by the nature of a woman going
Speaker 1: to it, that it's taking something away from their experience
Speaker 1: and their ranger tab, which is a ridiculous way to
Speaker 1: think of it. You know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter your skin color, your gender,
Speaker 1: or whatever else. I mean, if you met the standard,
Speaker 1: then you have as much a right to wear the
Speaker 1: ranger tab as anyone.
Speaker 2: Else exactly, and like if people did lower the standards,
Speaker 2: then like the leaders that are in charge of those formations,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't want to lead those formations.
Speaker 3: They wouldn't want to be in charge of range regiment.
Speaker 2: Because when when you get a ranger like on target
Speaker 2: or assigned to like a borrowed manpower thing, you know
Speaker 2: the quality of a soldier that you're getting, and that
Speaker 2: is a ranger someone who is an expert at their job,
Speaker 2: insanely physically fit and will get the job done on
Speaker 2: like on time and under budget for you. So exactly,
Speaker 2: it's just people who maybe have a chip on their
Speaker 2: shoulder and for all the wrong reasons.
Speaker 1: So, Darby Phase, you said you're kicking acid pitching op
Speaker 1: orders officers are usually pretty good at that. How's it
Speaker 1: as you're getting through like your graded patrols, how's it going?
Speaker 1: And how are you kind of dealing with like the
Speaker 1: stress that the what what I think the tough part
Speaker 1: of ranger school is the day after day long term
Speaker 1: physical and mental stress that you're under.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot, but it was nothing I
Speaker 2: couldn't manage.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty durable person, pretty sturdy.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: There were a few movements in Mountain phase. That sucked.
Speaker 2: Some guys were crying, but like it wasn't that bad.
Speaker 2: Everything in ranger school is very manageable if you just
Speaker 2: have a don't quit attitude. For my graded patrols, I
Speaker 2: had pl looks every single time, or squad leader looks
Speaker 2: every single time, and the majority of the time it
Speaker 2: was the first pl look.
Speaker 3: So they would always give me the awkward.
Speaker 2: And like I said, I know the afwoard like the
Speaker 2: back of my hands, and I was able to brief
Speaker 2: it very well. And because of that, every every upward
Speaker 2: that was written or like briefed in my platoon, I
Speaker 2: was the one that wrote it. So every person that
Speaker 2: had a squad leader look or opportunity to look, I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, give me the stuff.
Speaker 3: I'm going to do your awkward for you.
Speaker 2: And then I would We had these like laminated cards
Speaker 2: with everything, and I was like, here you go, and
Speaker 2: so they would just read off of that and then
Speaker 2: their AP board they would get a go check mark
Speaker 2: on it. So that's one way that I was able
Speaker 2: to help out the platoon. Uh yeah, and it was great.
Speaker 2: My I never got a no go. I got goes
Speaker 2: on every single look. One of My most memorable squadlier
Speaker 2: or leadership looks was in.
Speaker 3: Florida Phase.
Speaker 2: I think it was because in ranger school, you do
Speaker 2: a day mission and then a night mission, and in
Speaker 2: each mission you have like first shift and second shift
Speaker 2: leadership looks for.
Speaker 3: Whether or not you get to go at that position.
Speaker 2: And I was the second shift on the night mission,
Speaker 2: and I but I had my first leadership look that morning.
Speaker 2: So I had two looks in the same day. And
Speaker 2: after the first person went on the night shift, I
Speaker 2: was like, thank God, we're done. We're gonna go like whatever.
Speaker 2: I get a chill and the squad I'll carry the
Speaker 2: schedcoat whatever. But they're like givens and I was like fuck,
Speaker 2: and I grab all my stuff. I run to the
Speaker 2: ris and they're like, Okay, you're the pl for this
Speaker 2: night mission.
Speaker 3: It's an ambush. Da da da da dah.
Speaker 2: Here's your cor mits go and I got everyone going.
Speaker 2: I gave my ALFA team leader the fleet and we're walking,
Speaker 2: but we ended up walking on the wrong road and
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, we're on the wrong road. We
Speaker 2: need to cut ninety degrees this way and then get
Speaker 2: on that road. And we have thirty minutes to do
Speaker 2: it to like get to the ambush site, get everyone
Speaker 2: set up.
Speaker 3: And we go.
Speaker 2: We get to the spot, and normally you're supposed to
Speaker 2: like set up your like security patrols at like the
Speaker 2: triangle or whatever. And I was like, everyone just get
Speaker 2: in a circle, get through sixty drop your rucks, and
Speaker 2: then I grab three people and like put them on
Speaker 2: the ambush line or something. It was a shit show,
Speaker 2: but I met every criteria you'd like to use.
Speaker 1: The term hasty near ambush, not the term shit show.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was a beautiful hasty near ambush and it
Speaker 2: was great. And everyone was like, what is going on?
Speaker 2: What are we doing?
Speaker 3: Gibbons lost her mind and I was like, it's gonna be.
Speaker 2: Okay, guys.
Speaker 3: And I got my so thankfully, and it was. It
Speaker 3: was fun, very memorable.
Speaker 1: Speaking about the you know the again, the like long
Speaker 1: term kind of like stress that your body and in
Speaker 1: that you're owner psychologically too, I mean that that was
Speaker 1: the most challenging thing for me, I think, more than
Speaker 1: any particular event. And like, I'm sorry, but I imagine
Speaker 1: and I see you seem like you have a smaller
Speaker 1: frame than most men. And I was like, I mean,
Speaker 1: like not not that I'm anything special at all, but
Speaker 1: like by the time I got to then to Florida phase,
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, my body is like eaten up, Like
Speaker 1: what the hell?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was interesting and like what a good gauge is
Speaker 2: is every time you go into the de fact you
Speaker 2: have to do six chin ups and then say ranger
Speaker 2: right after you do the Ranger creed. And during Florida like,
Speaker 2: those chin ups were near impossible for me. I was like,
Speaker 2: so like my upper body was just so deteriorated and
Speaker 2: just tired. My legs were fine, but these chin ups.
Speaker 2: I was like, don't look, guys, these are really embarrassing.
Speaker 2: But it did take a toll on everyone. I Uh.
Speaker 3: There was someone who.
Speaker 2: One of my arranger buddies who actually went to range
Speaker 2: a regimen after me. She uh fractured her ankle, but
Speaker 2: she was like, I'm not gonna go to the medic
Speaker 2: because then they'll drop me. So she finished like the
Speaker 2: last week of Florida phase with a fractured ankle, which
Speaker 2: is just insane.
Speaker 3: But it was.
Speaker 2: It was difficult, definitely towards the end, but it was
Speaker 2: all still manageable. And by that time you've developed a
Speaker 2: good relationship with the people in your squad. You've showed
Speaker 2: them that you are a team player and that you're
Speaker 2: a team asset. You have strong bonds and trust between
Speaker 2: each other, so like whatever slack that may need to
Speaker 2: get picked up, they're there to do it as I was,
Speaker 2: to help out people who needed it.
Speaker 1: Also, any other funny Ranger school stories you want to
Speaker 1: tell before we move on.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, there was the first movement in Florida. Phase
Speaker 2: I was the RTO. I was the RTO for almost
Speaker 2: every mission. It was insane. And the RTO has like
Speaker 2: the radios ammo, just a heavy heavy rocksack.
Speaker 3: It's probably like one hundred plus.
Speaker 2: Pounds and you count everyone in, like when you're starting
Speaker 2: the patrol in Florida and I'm there like counting people in,
Speaker 2: trying to be like really serious, like this is great
Speaker 2: for the swamps, Like fuck yeah, And then the ri
Speaker 2: is standing right next to me, and the rucksack was
Speaker 2: so back heavy.
Speaker 3: Like the minute the.
Speaker 2: Second person like walks through, I just slow and my
Speaker 2: feet are like sunk in uh to the mud in
Speaker 2: the swamp.
Speaker 3: I like can't move, And then I just.
Speaker 2: Feel myself slowly going back and so the very start
Speaker 2: of the first swamp mission, I fully submerged backwards make
Speaker 2: this huge splash. The ri is laughing, Everyone's like, damn,
Speaker 2: Gibbons is down, and I get up. I'm soaking wet.
Speaker 2: Luckily I waterproofed the rucksack very well. But yeah, that
Speaker 2: was that was pretty bad.
Speaker 3: It was pretty bad.
Speaker 1: And then so January class you would have been graduating
Speaker 1: towards like the end of February. Yes, what did that
Speaker 1: feel like when you finally pinned that Ranger tab on?
Speaker 3: It was awesome.
Speaker 2: It was awesome, much like the graduation hat toss photo.
Speaker 2: I just envisioned like the entire time of Ranger School
Speaker 2: and me standing on Victory Pond with my family and
Speaker 2: my friends, just so excited. My dad pinned my tab.
Speaker 2: It was awesome, and like you're just you're frail, but
Speaker 2: your cheeks are fat as shit, Like my skin was
Speaker 2: wind burned, my lips were chapped, so it looks like, yeah,
Speaker 2: like I have Viva La glam Mac lipstick on. But
Speaker 2: you're just so excited, and then you watch all the
Speaker 2: Rangers in action stuff and then you finally get to
Speaker 2: say the Ranger creed and you're just screaming, just so excited.
Speaker 3: It was. It was an awesome day. It was very cool.
Speaker 1: So then you go down the road to the regiment
Speaker 1: and now you got your tab and your scroll and
Speaker 1: the beret and the whole deal. What's it like showing
Speaker 1: up at the Ranger Regiment Like this is the big
Speaker 1: leagues now, right? This is pretty cool?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was awesome.
Speaker 2: And I was in the logistics cell first off, and
Speaker 2: the team of men in the logistics cell are some
Speaker 2: of the most professional people I've ever worked with.
Speaker 3: They are amazing.
Speaker 2: They have been in Range Regiment probably their entire life,
Speaker 2: so they know the Ranger mission like in and out
Speaker 2: to a tea.
Speaker 3: So I learned so much.
Speaker 2: It was so overwhelming, and how regiment operates compared to
Speaker 2: Big Army night and day. So I had to basically
Speaker 2: relearn everything from the last seven years like in a
Speaker 2: like week period.
Speaker 3: But it was very cool too.
Speaker 2: Instead of being like, Okay, I'm planning an NTC mission,
Speaker 2: where do the porta potties need to go? I'm like
Speaker 2: planning actual, like real life stuff.
Speaker 3: So it was it was.
Speaker 2: Very cool being in the room, uh and just having
Speaker 2: a team of experts. Uh.
Speaker 3: It was it was awesome. It was intimidating.
Speaker 2: In the first month I was there, I had to
Speaker 2: brief the entire regimental staff and all the battalion commanders.
Speaker 2: So I was so nervous, and I like practiced so
Speaker 2: much like the night before and everything, and I like
Speaker 2: rehearsed it on the drive to the to the conference room.
Speaker 3: But uh, like this makes confidence. So I crushed it.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of how I found a lot of
Speaker 2: success in Range Regiment, just by making sure I knew
Speaker 2: what I was going to say when I needed to.
Speaker 3: Say something, because in.
Speaker 2: Range of Regiment, like I said, you're surrounded by the
Speaker 2: best of the best, and so I needed to prove that,
Speaker 2: like I'm not just like a strong arranger, but I
Speaker 2: know logistics in and out.
Speaker 3: So it was awesome.
Speaker 1: One of the big changes, right, is that the regiments
Speaker 1: are rapidly deploying unit.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so they rotate who deploys when they deploy,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you're on like a short recall. So that
Speaker 2: was another very cool problem set. Like my systems and
Speaker 2: logistics background gotta like got a bit of an exercise
Speaker 2: there because I was able to plan stuff on it,
Speaker 2: like a tight turnaround and everything had to just happen
Speaker 2: just in time for it to be successful.
Speaker 3: So that was a very cool problem set.
Speaker 2: And you're dealing with like not just hump fies, but
Speaker 2: like massive pieces of equipment and like helping with planes
Speaker 2: and everything. One real world mission that I did get
Speaker 2: to help with wash Sudan, when the Range of Battalion
Speaker 2: went over there. I was able to help coordinate logistics
Speaker 2: support for that, and so it was like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is game time, Like this is awesome.
Speaker 3: But that was also kind of right.
Speaker 1: That was that when they a contingency when they had
Speaker 1: to evacuate the embassy.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, so I got to help with that,
Speaker 2: But that was right when I was also getting out
Speaker 2: of the military, so it was it was chaotic as
Speaker 2: it is, and then I was like dealing with a
Speaker 2: bunch of other stuff. But the the logistics power that
Speaker 2: the Ranger Regiment and used stock have is insane. It's
Speaker 2: very cool.
Speaker 1: I would love to, you know, talk to you a
Speaker 1: little bit more in depth about Ranger and Special Ops
Speaker 1: logistics because I've wanted to have like some of the
Speaker 1: og logistics guys from so com you know, on the show,
Speaker 1: and I need to make a more of an effort
Speaker 1: to do that. But those guys and officers like you
Speaker 1: are the ones that kind of make everything happen and
Speaker 1: don't really get any you know, credit, or there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of visibility for it. But I mean, just
Speaker 1: like this operation that happened the other day in Venezuela,
Speaker 1: there's a tremendous amount of logistics and preparation that goes
Speaker 1: into that and stuff that people with bigger foreheads than
Speaker 1: me have to figure out what was some of the
Speaker 1: like the I mean, if you want to use the
Speaker 1: real world example of like some of the challenges or
Speaker 1: some of the training situations that you were in of
Speaker 1: you know, some of the challenges that come up when
Speaker 1: you're a logistician in the Ranger Regiment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all about like the mission you're supporting, the
Speaker 2: resources available, and like the needs of that mission and
Speaker 2: who you're supporting it. It all Uh, it's chaotic, but
Speaker 2: you need to make sure you have all the right
Speaker 2: people at the table to coordinate that because just like anything,
Speaker 2: if you're planning a birthday party, if you don't coordinate
Speaker 2: getting the candles in, like the big surprise or the
Speaker 2: big culmination of blown out the candles doesn't happen. So
Speaker 2: it's it's a lot of exhaustive devil backing, sink matrix,
Speaker 2: consumption rates, coordinating with people. It's that's kind of what
Speaker 2: a logistic officer is really. And when I was planning
Speaker 2: or helping out with the Sudan mission, you needed to
Speaker 2: have every contingency thought of, and sometimes we didn't. We
Speaker 2: didn't think that we would need to support for We
Speaker 2: thought that it was just gonna be like, okay, quick mission, great,
Speaker 2: but it extended a week and then a little bit
Speaker 2: longer and we're like, okay, we need to get them food,
Speaker 2: Like what if we need to use like this or that.
Speaker 3: So it's just having.
Speaker 2: Having contingencies upon contingencies ready to go. And and like
Speaker 2: you said, like being a logistics officer is a thankless job.
Speaker 2: If if everything is planned to a t and you
Speaker 2: did such a good job, like no one cares, you
Speaker 2: don't get a thank you, But if the porta potties
Speaker 2: aren't there, you're gonna get yelled at. So it's it's
Speaker 2: not glamorous, it's not thankful. Like you do it because
Speaker 2: you like seeing all the pieces line up and it
Speaker 2: get executed flawlessly. And without logistics, like the people on
Speaker 2: the front line can't do their job.
Speaker 3: So it is very cool in.
Speaker 1: That way also, and I guess this is where your
Speaker 1: your System's degree came into handy two, because I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think back when you're dealing with like hundreds
Speaker 1: of rangers on the ground doing airfield seizures or operations,
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're doing. I mean, like the
Speaker 1: organization is so paramount to have all of that works,
Speaker 1: Like everything has to work in a sequence, from like
Speaker 1: the logistics to the air assets to everything else, and
Speaker 1: any one little thing goes haywire and you know you're
Speaker 1: gonna end up in mission failure.
Speaker 3: Exactly.
Speaker 2: And like one of the great things about special Operations
Speaker 2: and range regiment like you have experts for everything you
Speaker 2: just mentioned, Like air you have it like an air
Speaker 2: and CIC who has done air missions like for the
Speaker 2: past twenty years. You have your ammotechs who know exactly
Speaker 2: what is going on and how much AMMO you need
Speaker 2: for this or that. You know how much you have
Speaker 2: your food and CIC, your chief warrant officer you have,
Speaker 2: so you're just surrounded by experts. But being like the
Speaker 2: like the S four, so the Logistics officer for a
Speaker 2: Range of Battalion. It's your job to bring all those
Speaker 2: experts together, have the intent and the end goal, and
Speaker 2: then have all those just insanely smart people help you
Speaker 2: with the plan. So it's never just a an individual mission.
Speaker 3: Logistics is always like a team, team effort.
Speaker 1: And so that that was your next job being the
Speaker 1: S four down at third Ranger Battalion, which is just
Speaker 1: across the way from headquarters.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was awesome.
Speaker 2: I had a great team, the n C i C
Speaker 2: for the S four shop Sergeant Queen. He was probably
Speaker 2: the best person that I could have worked with. Then.
Speaker 2: He had been in Range Regiment his entire life. He
Speaker 2: knew Range regiment like like.
Speaker 3: He knew it so well.
Speaker 2: So I was able to get so much information from
Speaker 2: him and rely on him and learn from him, because
Speaker 2: when you're coming in as a captain who never served
Speaker 2: in Range of Regiment before, you literally know nothing. You
Speaker 2: know some basics, but like I didn't even know how
Speaker 2: to set up my radios, and I'm like, certain, Queen,
Speaker 2: can you want to fuck my radio again?
Speaker 3: Like I don't, Can you teach me?
Speaker 2: And so they would like they teach you how to
Speaker 2: do it, and they teach you the right way.
Speaker 3: They teach you how to do it the Ranger way, and.
Speaker 2: So that I was thankful for cool and I served
Speaker 2: under the now RCO. I think Colonel Boho is still
Speaker 2: the RCO. But he was an awesome leader. Loved loved
Speaker 2: learning from him, and he was very helpful.
Speaker 3: The only time that I did.
Speaker 2: Encounter some like interpersonal issues was in three seventy five,
Speaker 2: and I was able to work with Colonel Boho to
Speaker 2: like figure it out gracefully, and very thankful for him
Speaker 2: and all the leadership for that.
Speaker 3: But it was it was a very cool job.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to ask you a little bit about
Speaker 1: that because you know, as I mentioned earlier, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of like a boomer Ranger at this point. I'm an
Speaker 1: older guy now, and it's hard to describe to somebody
Speaker 1: who never went through this experience putting the experience that
Speaker 1: you had. But like, the Ranger Regiment is very much
Speaker 1: a male oriented organization. It is in many ways, it's
Speaker 1: a sort of male utopia. It's like this sort of
Speaker 1: like hidden little enclave where guys can be guys and
Speaker 1: before the women showed up, you could poop with the
Speaker 1: door open, like all of these it's like a you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: very professional, but it also has a bit of a
Speaker 1: frat sort of vibe to it at times. What was
Speaker 1: it like for you, like integrating into those formations, like
Speaker 1: with all of these dudes, with all these bros and
Speaker 1: like we were you like becoming one of the bros.
Speaker 1: Was it hard for you to sort of like ingratiate
Speaker 1: yourself with that culture?
Speaker 2: You couldn't have said it better a male utopia of
Speaker 2: like like testosterone workouts, red bull all that.
Speaker 3: It's so funny.
Speaker 2: But what was interesting was in the regimental logistic cell
Speaker 2: and in three seven five there were no women locker rooms.
Speaker 2: No one thought to make a woman locker room when
Speaker 2: they were building those buildings.
Speaker 3: And so I, like I showed up and.
Speaker 2: The both teams they built women's locker rooms for me.
Speaker 2: And it just goes to show that, like, sure it
Speaker 2: may be a male utopia, I may not be a male,
Speaker 2: I'm a woman, but they don't care. I'm still a
Speaker 2: member of the team and they're gonna treat me like
Speaker 2: with as much respect as they would a dude.
Speaker 3: And it meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2: They like made me this little locker room thing and
Speaker 2: made sure I was like good to go. So it
Speaker 2: was very very kind, and it just goes to show
Speaker 2: that like on the outside it's a male utopia and everything,
Speaker 2: but like when you're in it, like they just saw
Speaker 2: me as like, Okay, we have a team member, she's
Speaker 2: kind of different. Will adjust for her needs, but like
Speaker 2: continue mission. Like it wasn't anything crazy. I I didn't
Speaker 2: act any different than I have or did. I didn't
Speaker 2: try to be like Brokee Hayley. I didn't try to dip.
Speaker 1: I didn't try to do like all this Copenhagen and
Speaker 1: the lower lip yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: No, absolutely not. I had my uh hair nice and neat.
Speaker 3: I would have my little lip gloss on. I would
Speaker 3: look good. I I was professional uh and.
Speaker 2: And I showed up as myself because if if I didn't,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to be successful there.
Speaker 3: If I was trying to be a bro and.
Speaker 2: Like snagging a zin from a guy, like it wouldn't
Speaker 2: it's not who I am, and I would be like
Speaker 2: living alive basically, and I wouldn't be able to be
Speaker 2: like truly successful.
Speaker 1: And I was.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: It was great.
Speaker 2: Everyone everyone treated me with dignity.
Speaker 3: And respect.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: It was very cool to see.
Speaker 2: Like one instance and I can pinpoint then visual and
Speaker 2: the time and place that it wasn't okay behavior.
Speaker 3: But other than that, like every NCO treated me with respect.
Speaker 2: They were they were stoked to see a woman. They
Speaker 2: were welcoming. When Colonel Bobo left and then the new
Speaker 2: brigade or battalion commander came in. He just shows up
Speaker 2: at like one of the change of command planning meetings
Speaker 2: and he sees me, I'm like sitting there like typing
Speaker 2: my notes or whatever, and he like double takes.
Speaker 3: He's like, oh, there's one thing changed here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It was really funny, but uh, it was. It was great.
Speaker 3: As long as you show up as yourself, you'll be successful.
Speaker 2: Like, don't try to don't try to be like the
Speaker 2: bro version of you to get some dude's approval who
Speaker 2: you don't need, because like, we belong in these spaces
Speaker 2: and they will.
Speaker 3: They will make the space at the table for you.
Speaker 2: They will make you the the locker rooms because people
Speaker 2: in the units, in those formations, they respect you.
Speaker 3: If you can meet the standards, whether you're a male
Speaker 3: or a woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say you can do pt and
Speaker 1: like that's the kind of thing that gets you respect
Speaker 1: in the Range of regiment. It's like it values strength
Speaker 1: and endurance.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, absolutely, And like, like I said, I'll never
Speaker 2: be the smartest person in the room, but I can
Speaker 2: run just as well as most of the guys, and
Speaker 2: I can ruck just as well. Can't clean and jerk
Speaker 2: however much. But also on that note, some of the
Speaker 2: guys in range regiment are truly freak athletes. They're like
Speaker 2: clocking in five thirty minute per mile five mile times
Speaker 2: and I'm like, how is that physically possible? It's insane.
Speaker 3: It is so cool to see people just casually.
Speaker 2: They're the ones take it out the dip and handing
Speaker 2: the monster over and just like going at It's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's also being you know, twenty one years old
Speaker 1: helps at that point. Yes, the one incident that did
Speaker 1: happen that you know, yeah, get resolved. Are you okay
Speaker 1: talking about that at all?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was one of my peers actually, and they're just
Speaker 2: sexist through and through. I experienced bad things with them
Speaker 2: previously at another institution, and they just were sexist and
Speaker 2: they they may have not liked that I wasn't friendly
Speaker 2: with them or something.
Speaker 3: But I was like, this is becoming a toxic workplace.
Speaker 2: And at the time, I was going through some like
Speaker 2: other personal stuff outside of my day job, and I
Speaker 2: was just like in a really bad space. But I
Speaker 2: recognized the poor treatment and behavior. I knew I didn't
Speaker 2: deserve it, and so I was able to address it.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to say resolved, because he still
Speaker 2: is a sexist person, but like.
Speaker 3: We were able to work it out right.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be interested to again if you're okay
Speaker 1: talking about it, Like, how was the situation resolved and
Speaker 1: how did you address it with your chain of command?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: I picked up the phone when I like was at
Speaker 2: my breaking point. I picked up the phone and I
Speaker 2: called our battalion XO and I was like, hey, sir,
Speaker 2: this is happening and it's not okay. And he was
Speaker 2: like whoa Heley, Yeah, that is absolutely not okay. Would
Speaker 2: you be willing to talk to Colonel Boho about it?
Speaker 2: I'm think absolutely, sir. So I go and I have
Speaker 2: an office call with Colonel Boho. He hears what I
Speaker 2: have to say and he's like, Yep, this isn't this
Speaker 2: isn't okay, And he talked with the individual, and the
Speaker 2: the interactions with that individual after became fine. But I
Speaker 2: know it's because his boss probably yelled at him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But never did I feel like I couldn't speak up
Speaker 2: or that I like my issues wouldn't be respected or
Speaker 2: heard from leadership.
Speaker 3: And I was, I want to say, like the third
Speaker 3: woman to be.
Speaker 2: In three seventy five, because there was a platoon leader
Speaker 2: before me and then a meadow before me, and.
Speaker 3: They've had some issues. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it's also.
Speaker 2: The army, and the army will be the Army, whether
Speaker 2: you're in Ranger Regiment, Special Forces or to too Striker Regade.
Speaker 2: So there's assholes everywhere. And I wouldn't pin that interaction
Speaker 2: on Ranger Regiment, just that individual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was going to say, I think it
Speaker 1: is a positive thing that the institution the regiment addressed
Speaker 1: it immediately like that, because, as you say, there's always
Speaker 1: going to be assholes out there. You just hope that
Speaker 1: the organization does the right thing when they find out
Speaker 1: about it, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And like I'm I'm no dummy.
Speaker 2: I know that I was like one of two one
Speaker 2: of the three women in range of regiment at the time,
Speaker 2: so everyone knew everything that I was doing. The RCO
Speaker 2: at the time knew everything that I was doing. And
Speaker 2: so when my like issue at three seven five happened,
Speaker 2: is like, of course he heard and everything was handled. Wonderful.
Speaker 3: Leadership was very respectful.
Speaker 2: They were able to help me work through everything, and
Speaker 2: regiment as a whole, like ten out of ten professional organization.
Speaker 3: Just the one guy kind of.
Speaker 1: Said, yeah, excuse me, so I kind of winding down
Speaker 1: your time as a S four, What is it that
Speaker 1: you're thinking about doing next at this point in your life?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I I was at another decision point in
Speaker 2: my life. I kind of touched on. I was going
Speaker 2: through some personal stuff again.
Speaker 3: I needed help.
Speaker 2: I was definitely going through some bout of depression or anxiety.
Speaker 3: I didn't really know what it was, but I went
Speaker 3: and got help.
Speaker 2: I was I needed to talk to like a therapist
Speaker 2: or something, and I was like, I think I just
Speaker 2: need a career change. And that's when I recognized. I
Speaker 2: was like, I don't love the Army anymore. I am
Speaker 2: in one of the most elite units. I am one
Speaker 2: of seven women to ever do so, but I don't
Speaker 2: love it. So I was like, this is a good sign.
Speaker 2: I am at peace with the decision. It's time to
Speaker 2: get out. So I for the second time, dropped my
Speaker 2: refrad packet and was looking into the tech industry. I
Speaker 2: used break Line.
Speaker 3: They are a really.
Speaker 2: Great organization for veterans, women, people of color who are
Speaker 2: looking for like a career change into the tech industry,
Speaker 2: and they help a lot with like elevator speech or pitches,
Speaker 2: resume help and everything.
Speaker 3: So I was able to use them and apply for
Speaker 3: some jobs.
Speaker 2: But the big ego hit is when you're on an
Speaker 2: interview call with like a tech startup who does like
Speaker 2: some hybrid car, AI driving car or whatever, and you're
Speaker 2: telling them, yeah, I went to Range Regiment and they
Speaker 2: just like they're like, way, they don't even look at you.
Speaker 2: They're looking at a second screen, and you're like, dang, yeah,
Speaker 2: no one, no one really cares in this industry. So
Speaker 2: I looked at defense tech and I was like, they
Speaker 2: know my background, they know like the weight of that
Speaker 2: accomplishment or of my accomplishments, and it's like sure tech
Speaker 2: may be formed, but defense industry.
Speaker 3: I know it like the back of my hands.
Speaker 2: So I.
Speaker 3: Got a job at a.
Speaker 2: Small defense tech startup because of a guy who I
Speaker 2: served with in range Regiment. So it's using your network
Speaker 2: having those that I like thought about back in West Point,
Speaker 2: and it was a I didn't love the job. It
Speaker 2: uh wasn't wasn't a good fit. And I now work
Speaker 2: at a bigger tech company in just like the normal
Speaker 2: tech industry. And again I work with like the majority
Speaker 2: of the guys on my team are veterans, so we
Speaker 2: still have kind of like that army mentality. Team. First,
Speaker 2: we help each other out, We hustle, we'd stay up
Speaker 2: late doing slides if need be like a staff officer
Speaker 2: all over again.
Speaker 3: But it's uh, it's great.
Speaker 2: And so if anyone's like looking to get into the
Speaker 2: tech industry, like, find a little sliver of commonality you
Speaker 2: may have within.
Speaker 3: It and then just exploit that the best you can.
Speaker 2: But it was a pretty easy transition from army into tech,
Speaker 2: and uh, I've been very thankful for the people who
Speaker 2: have helped me along the way.
Speaker 3: It's been. It's been awesome.
Speaker 1: What do you do more specifically in the tech industry,
Speaker 1: first defense tech and now wider technology. Is it back
Speaker 1: to logistics or is it more management.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has nothing to do with logistics besides creative
Speaker 2: problem solving, and like, thank goodness for my logistics background
Speaker 2: because I feel like it has helped me become like
Speaker 2: a Swiss Army knife, like being able to solve any
Speaker 2: problem just by getting the right people to attack it.
Speaker 2: At the first tech startup, I was a customer success person,
Speaker 2: so it's like, after the tech is sold, you go
Speaker 2: make sure that they use it and that they renew
Speaker 2: their license. And for me that was not a good
Speaker 2: fit because I was just leaving the military and I
Speaker 2: was going like onto army bases and working with like
Speaker 2: NCOs and like s two officers and like right back
Speaker 2: to where I left because I was like, I wanted
Speaker 2: to get out of the army, but no, I'm just
Speaker 2: wearing a cue outfit in the army. So it was
Speaker 2: it was.
Speaker 3: It was interesting, short lived though, and now.
Speaker 2: I do a go to market strategy for a big
Speaker 2: tech firm, so again it's a it's definitely a lot
Speaker 2: of problem solving. It's interpersonal skills, bringing together outside partners
Speaker 2: and like coming up with a creative solution to I mean,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, get more money for
Speaker 2: the company. But building those relationships so that like they
Speaker 2: trust our tech, they trust who we are and how
Speaker 2: we we help them get more money. So it's it's
Speaker 2: a very cool job.
Speaker 3: And my team is just it.
Speaker 2: It's great. I have like some pjs, a j TAC,
Speaker 2: like a bunch of cool people and we're just kind
Speaker 2: of like the veteran crew just like getting shit done.
Speaker 3: It's very cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. And you also started this thing with
Speaker 1: your friend from point I think Jasmine, Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was interesting when I was at that first tech startup,
Speaker 2: I was like is this it is this what people
Speaker 2: do just like work their nine to five and like
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 3: So there was like a big.
Speaker 2: Like void of like purpose helping others and like a
Speaker 2: greater mission almost. And so Jasmine, who's also getting out
Speaker 2: of the army she worked.
Speaker 3: For used to Sock.
Speaker 2: She was like the aide de camp to the deputy
Speaker 2: commander there, so she's been in and out of that
Speaker 2: community quite frequently as well. We decided to start Serve
Speaker 2: SRV because the service was what was lacking in our life,
Speaker 2: and it's just kind of how we frame it. It's
Speaker 2: like what you do, it's how you fill your cup.
Speaker 2: It's how you help others, It's how you help yourself.
Speaker 2: How do you serve your community, how do you serve you?
Speaker 2: And we're trying to make it into something great. It
Speaker 2: will be focusing on mentorship and helping like people get
Speaker 2: into the tech industry, helping soldiers try to figure out
Speaker 2: their path in the army or military or navy or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's very cool and because after the Army.
Speaker 2: I like just decided to finally become public in social media,
Speaker 2: even though every cell in my body is like, don't
Speaker 2: do it, Hayley, don't do it.
Speaker 3: We finally did it.
Speaker 2: But it's been awesome because the amount of people who
Speaker 2: reach out to us and they're like, WHOA, I didn't
Speaker 2: know women could be rangers either, Oh, women can go
Speaker 2: to a ranger school. And it's it's just very cool
Speaker 2: that we can help kind of be the change that
Speaker 2: we wanted to see in the world, to be the
Speaker 2: person that we probably needed back when we were lieutenants.
Speaker 3: But it's been awesome.
Speaker 2: And one of the one of the really cool parts
Speaker 2: about Serve is all these women who are trying to
Speaker 2: like go to s fas training up for ranger school.
Speaker 2: They have these spots they're doing it. They're like asking
Speaker 2: us for help. There's a woman going to buds here
Speaker 2: shortly and she's gonna crush it.
Speaker 3: She's like six foot tall, jacked. She's awesome.
Speaker 2: It's just very cool to like be in a community
Speaker 2: of people like like chasing greatness almost so it's awesome
Speaker 2: sharing the dream.
Speaker 1: Where where can people go to find Serve.
Speaker 2: We have a website team dash serve dot org and
Speaker 2: then we also have an Instagram and TikTok team or
Speaker 2: Serve dot ing on both cool sr dot ing and.
Speaker 1: Uh, you know the other thing I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you about, you stay continue to stay quite active. I
Speaker 1: see on your Instagram, you know, training for an ultra
Speaker 1: marathon and you're running twelve miles a day and all this,
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, yeah, this this girl's crazy. But but
Speaker 1: you enjoy you love it, don't you?
Speaker 2: I do. I loved the person that I was when
Speaker 2: I was training up for regimental selection. I loved having
Speaker 2: that like that end goal looming over me and like
Speaker 2: something to chase after. And now that I'm a civilian
Speaker 2: and I don't have like a selection train up for
Speaker 2: I'm like trying to channel that energy into other athletic endeavors.
Speaker 2: And it's taken me a while since I've gotten out
Speaker 2: of the Army to kind of like settle into the
Speaker 2: needs that I need to have to be successful as
Speaker 2: like Hayley as me, and I've identified that that's like
Speaker 2: you need to have a goal, like some athletic goal
Speaker 2: that you're chasing. You need to stay busy, whether that's
Speaker 2: doing your day job, posting little tiktoks or like doing
Speaker 2: your MBA or mentoring people. And another thing is like
Speaker 2: waking up early and doing PTE, especially when you like
Speaker 2: are working from home. So I wake up and I
Speaker 2: go to a cross so I can interact with people.
Speaker 2: I can just mix up the energy in my day.
Speaker 2: But it's been really cool. Last year I trained, I
Speaker 2: trained for a marathon. I really didn't train. I just
Speaker 2: kind of ran it and I did very well. And
Speaker 2: now I'm like, okay, let's do an ultra. So that
Speaker 2: Ultra is in April, which I'm excited for. It's a
Speaker 2: fifty K, and then I have I find out tomorrow
Speaker 2: if I made the lottery for Leadville one hundred this year.
Speaker 3: So fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: You know, this is totally just a personal observation and
Speaker 1: some may agree or disagree, but I think that like
Speaker 1: when rangers leave the regiment and they become civilians, they
Speaker 1: there's like one of two or there's two ways you
Speaker 1: can go in, both of which are bad. One is
Speaker 1: to completely abandon your identity as a ranger and forget
Speaker 1: about it. The other is to not change and being
Speaker 1: able to you know, let go of some of that
Speaker 1: ranger identity and become something else. And yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: like doing pt It's like, you know, people get into
Speaker 1: trouble when they forget who they are.
Speaker 5: I really feel like, yeah, absolutely, and like I was,
Speaker 5: I was going through a weird, a weird version of
Speaker 5: myself when I forgot like what I thrived on for
Speaker 5: the last ten years, Like I was sleeping in, I
Speaker 5: wasn't working out, I wasn't like being on my shit.
Speaker 2: And luckily, like my husband, he's great, He's like, maybe
Speaker 2: you should do this, and I'm like, no, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to do it.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, yeah, actually I will do it.
Speaker 2: So it's just like having a good support system who
Speaker 2: knows like who you are and.
Speaker 3: What you need is so crucial when you're out of
Speaker 3: the army.
Speaker 2: But absolutely and like there's the version of me that's
Speaker 2: hg Lead the way, army ranger whatever. But then there's
Speaker 2: also Hayley who's just like super girly into fashion, like
Speaker 2: bougie is all get out. So it's it's very fun
Speaker 2: to kind of let those two personalities collide, especially uh
Speaker 2: in like the social media eye of literally anyone who
Speaker 2: looks at my page.
Speaker 1: So it's it's it makes some people's heads explode, right
Speaker 1: because they can't like reconcile the two identities, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's to a different in a different way. I
Speaker 1: think it's true with like men too, Like if you
Speaker 1: were a ranger and you were this tough guy, don't
Speaker 1: think that you can't go to college and get a
Speaker 1: graduate degree. Like there's nothing other than a mental barrier.
Speaker 1: There's nothing stopping you from doing that. And I really
Speaker 1: encourage people like there's not a there's not a contradiction
Speaker 1: in the two identities.
Speaker 2: Exactly, Like you can staff me up right next to
Speaker 2: you and they're like, well, he's definitely the ranger and
Speaker 2: no one would think I ever like let alone apply
Speaker 2: to the be.
Speaker 3: In the army or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's it's very cool to see the the dimension of
Speaker 2: people and the like the uniqueness that the the dedication,
Speaker 2: the excellence that range a regiment demands. And it's also
Speaker 2: very cool to see what people do after it, kind
Speaker 2: of like you said, whether they like fully go into
Speaker 2: range your mode as civilian or like go down a
Speaker 2: different path.
Speaker 3: It's it's very interesting to see.
Speaker 1: So as we wrap up, any final lessons learned or
Speaker 1: pearls of wisdom or anything else you'd like to mention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean just being yourself in whatever environment you
Speaker 2: find yourself in. Throughout, like my entire Army career, there's
Speaker 2: always been like a huge setback and then just a
Speaker 2: gritty head down mode and then like a big success.
Speaker 2: So like, no matter where you are in life, just
Speaker 2: just keep going and staying true to yourself will make
Speaker 2: sure that you are not just successful when you achieve
Speaker 2: that goal, but that you're happy and just organizing that
Speaker 2: and that you do belong even if you don't look
Speaker 2: like the other people at the table. You you belong
Speaker 2: at that table. You put in the work and you
Speaker 2: earned it. So like me being an Army ranger, just
Speaker 2: like you said, people may not suspect it, but like
Speaker 2: I did just the same as amount of work as
Speaker 2: as as you and my other rangers.
Speaker 3: Like to the left and right.
Speaker 2: So showing up authentically as yourself is just as important
Speaker 2: as meeting the standards and like achieving that.
Speaker 3: Goal and everything like that.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you if they're looking for Haley
Speaker 1: on the internet professionally with Serve or with your IG
Speaker 1: or whatever else you want to plug?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so both Serve and my pages. We have
Speaker 2: an Instagram and a TikTok. Serve is SRV dot i
Speaker 2: G and then my stuff is HG Lead the Way,
Speaker 2: HG Lead the Ways on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. So
Speaker 2: very excited and we're very active on both pages. So
Speaker 2: if you have any questions or need help with anything,
Speaker 2: shoot us a DM and we'll help you with that.
Speaker 1: It's super cool. Well, thank you Hailey for doing this interview.
Speaker 1: You're our first tabbed and scrolled ranger woman on the show.
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I asked you to come on
Speaker 1: the show because of the scroll, not the tab That's
Speaker 1: just how that's how it is. But bid, seriously, thank
Speaker 1: you for doing this.
Speaker 3: It has been great of course, and you know, I
Speaker 3: hope I'm not the last. So yeah, it's just great.
Speaker 2: It's an honor to be able to speak with you,
Speaker 2: to talk about my what I've done, and to to Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just learn a little bit more about everything.
Speaker 3: So it's been awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, and I hope a lot of the
Speaker 1: young people out there who are thinking about joining the
Speaker 1: Ranger Regiment see this and take something away from it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, thank you again, Haley and all the rest
Speaker 1: of you folks out there. We will see you next week.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Hey, guys, I want to tell all of
Speaker 1: you today about a new newsletter that we're launching that
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Speaker 3: Checking it out.
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