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<v Speaker 1>Fraud abuse. They're looking for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Ever been wasted for an abuse? Don't just find a things,

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<v Speaker 2>find out.

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<v Speaker 3>All about it. On fifty five krc the talk station,

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<v Speaker 3>just I MADO five. You're a fitty five KRCD talk station.

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<v Speaker 3>Happy Thursday. My next guest her name Mary Greybar. She's

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<v Speaker 3>a Resident Fellow of the Alexander.

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<v Speaker 4>Hamilton Institute for the Study of Western Civilization and the

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<v Speaker 4>founder of I Love this organization of the organization, the

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<v Speaker 4>Dissident prof Education Project, taught to college level for twenty years,

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<v Speaker 4>most recently at Emory University. Or work has been published

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<v Speaker 4>by the Federalist town Hall, Front Page Magazine, City Journal,

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<v Speaker 4>American Greatness, and Academic Questions. And she's written a book

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<v Speaker 4>we're talking about today, Debunking FDR, The Man and the Myths.

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<v Speaker 4>Welcome to the fifty five KRSE Morning Show. Mary, it's

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<v Speaker 4>a pleasure to have you on this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, it's great to be here.

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<v Speaker 4>When I think of FDR, I first think of my grandfather,

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<v Speaker 4>who was a lifelong Democrat, because FDR gave him a

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<v Speaker 4>job when he was a tea major in the Civilian

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<v Speaker 4>Conservation Corps and that was enough to win over his

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<v Speaker 4>long lifelong support for the Democrat Party, even though he

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<v Speaker 4>was voting for the indefensible.

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<v Speaker 1>Quite often.

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<v Speaker 4>We used to get in political arguments when I was younger.

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<v Speaker 4>But God rest his soul. But he also was the

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<v Speaker 4>father of term limits. We're bringing about the twenty second amendment.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I've heard of others, you know, who had

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<v Speaker 2>warm failings for FDR. Because of the Civilian Conservation Corps,

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<v Speaker 2>people were very desperate, and so that was part of

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<v Speaker 2>his strategy, was to give things to people who were

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<v Speaker 2>suffering under the depression. I mean, it wasn't from his

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<v Speaker 2>personal fortune. It was from taxpayers. And then to seem like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the magnificent leader. Yes, and so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you have those emotional resonances and they'll exist and it's

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<v Speaker 2>passed on, you know. I mean some people can understand

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<v Speaker 2>while this was part of a strategy, but others think,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, well we need to continue with that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of program.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, people easily refer to him in such awe was

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<v Speaker 4>his great or all. He was a great guy. He

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<v Speaker 4>got us we won World War Two. He got us

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<v Speaker 4>out of the Great Depression, and perhaps maybe we got

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<v Speaker 4>out of the Great Depression because of World War Two.

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<v Speaker 4>I've always kind of looked at it that way. It

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<v Speaker 4>put a lot of people to work in the defense industry,

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<v Speaker 4>and it put a lot of people overseas fighting wars,

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<v Speaker 4>and that in large parts help us, helped us turn

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<v Speaker 4>around the country, didn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Yeah, and it's a little deceptive because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you had, you know, millions of working age men who

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<v Speaker 2>were fighting overseas, so those unemployment figures were deceptive. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't really until after the war that the economy rebounded, so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and a lot of people at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, leading up to the war, we're thinking, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's such a failure. I mean, the economy is still

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<v Speaker 2>so bad, you know, twenty percent unemployment, and hey, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>he's thinking of war to get us out of this mess.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Europe, of course, that's what there is, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Oh yeah, I mean that's what a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the critics were saying, you know at the time.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, and you know, the United States remained completely unscathed,

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<v Speaker 4>so the rest of the industrial complex around the world,

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<v Speaker 4>you pretty much bombed out mess of all of Europe

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<v Speaker 4>and in England. So we seem to be the recipients

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<v Speaker 4>of a lot of business potential and opportunity because the

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<v Speaker 4>rest of the world still needed goods.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And it was the same thing, you know, after

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<v Speaker 2>World War One, So you had the industrialists, the manufacturers,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, rebuilding Europe. Yeah. And the thing was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the war could have been ended a couple of years sooner,

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<v Speaker 2>according to many historians. But you know, Franklin Roosevelt, this

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the things I point out as I

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<v Speaker 2>go through his early history and his early political career.

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<v Speaker 2>He just had this hatred of Germans. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>talking just about Nazis. I'm talking about your you know,

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<v Speaker 2>your ethnic German And he would not consider you know,

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<v Speaker 2>having an agreement and you know, ceasing fighting even though

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<v Speaker 2>there were uh, you know, Germans resisting Hitler at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>He insisted on unconditional surrender. He wanted to make Germany

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<v Speaker 2>completely pastoral, wipe out all industry, divided up into different segments,

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<v Speaker 2>and make her completely powerless.

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<v Speaker 4>My understanding he had he was in thrall of Stalin

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<v Speaker 4>and I mostly remember FDR along lines of the guy

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<v Speaker 4>that sold out Eastern Europe at Yalta. So did I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>did he not cave in or capitulate the Stalin at

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<v Speaker 4>Yalta in giving up the European of the Eastern European

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<v Speaker 4>countries and turning them into communist nations.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, And that happened even before a Tehran And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he was infatuated with Stalin. Anything Stalin wanted,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, FDR was like this defrauded lover, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>appealing to him. I mean he had so many opportunities,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, with lens lease and supplying you know,

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<v Speaker 2>military equipment and food and everything else to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>rein him in, but he never did. I mean, he

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<v Speaker 2>was an absolutely awful negotiator, and he carved up Poland

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<v Speaker 2>and told him you know, but I can't announce this.

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<v Speaker 2>And after the election in nineteen forty, because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>American polls were voters and he wanted them to vote

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<v Speaker 2>for him, and they were you know, pretty solidly Democrats.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, did he also have a hatred for Japan because

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<v Speaker 4>he is famous for rounding up Japanese American citizens. Most

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<v Speaker 4>only one of my dad's friends, who was a very

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<v Speaker 4>young child at the time, ended up in an internment camp.

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<v Speaker 4>They lost their house and we're we're in a camp.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean that that to me is like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>one of the bigger human rights abuses that have ever

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<v Speaker 4>been conducted by a president.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and he also did that to Germans, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Germans who lived here in the United States. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>there was no due process of you know, if someone

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<v Speaker 2>heard a neighborhood someone speaking German or getting German publications,

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<v Speaker 2>they were put under suspicion. I mean, there was no

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<v Speaker 2>due process. And they were also interns. But yes, Roosevelt

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<v Speaker 2>did hate the Japanese. He had a soft spot for

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<v Speaker 2>the Chinese because and he'd never been to China, although

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<v Speaker 2>he you know, claimed to be an expert on China,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was because his grandfather made his fortune by

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<v Speaker 2>pushing opium in China and he thought that Japanese. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I go into that quite a bit. And he always

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<v Speaker 2>denied it in history. A lot of historians have downplayed

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<v Speaker 2>it or outright denied it. But yeah, he was an

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<v Speaker 2>opium pusher. How about push.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the first time I've ever heard that.

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<v Speaker 4>We always hear the stories about the Kennedy family making

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<v Speaker 4>money off prohibition.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was not aware of that history. That's that's frightening, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's been suppressed for a long time, and I

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<v Speaker 2>go into quite a bit of detail about it in

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<v Speaker 2>my book. And you know, on the point of the

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<v Speaker 2>Japanese even before he was inaugurated, he told you know,

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<v Speaker 2>his future cabinet members that you know, he foresaw war

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<v Speaker 2>with Japan. So this is you know, in nineteen early

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen thirty three. He was inaugurated in March. Of course.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow, but there have been rumors swirling for years that

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<v Speaker 4>maybe he even knew about the impending and bombing of

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<v Speaker 4>Pearl Harbor.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any truth to that notion?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know if that will ever be proven

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<v Speaker 2>because a lot of the records have been destroyed and

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<v Speaker 2>he did not keep diaries. But he did tell Admiral Richardson,

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<v Speaker 2>James O. Richardson, that he would not remove the fleet

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<v Speaker 2>from Hawaii. Richardson said, you know, they're vulnerable. So he said,

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do this in an election years nineteen forty,

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<v Speaker 2>So he, you know, put Richardson in a different spot

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<v Speaker 2>and put in Kimmel, who was more you know, agreeable,

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<v Speaker 2>And so he was warned about that, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>trying to provoke war. I mean, you know, as I

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<v Speaker 2>point out in an article that I had published recently, also,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, when he and Churchill met at place Antia Bay,

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<v Speaker 2>he said, you know, I am going to provoke war.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to have a provocation. I want an incident.

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<v Speaker 2>He was hoping that it would be around the Philippines.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, he didn't think that the Japanese were smart

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<v Speaker 2>enough to send such a bombing mission. You know that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, destroyed the fleet and killed almost three thousand men.

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<v Speaker 2>But they were you know, he thought that the Japanese

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<v Speaker 2>were sneaky and not very smart.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I know he's perceived as this, you know, champion

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<v Speaker 4>of the working crass and a class in the press. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 4>he had a great depression to campaign on along those lines.

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<v Speaker 4>I suppose the failure of the Hoover administration helped him.

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<v Speaker 4>But what was his driving motivation? Is it just simply

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<v Speaker 4>a typical politician power struggle and wanting to be a powerful,

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<v Speaker 4>controlling man.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he wanted to be a dictator. He was called

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<v Speaker 2>a dictator when he was first inaugurated. Some people said,

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<v Speaker 2>we need a dictator to get us out of the depression.

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<v Speaker 2>But his ambition from the time he was a boy,

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<v Speaker 2>or at least a freshman at Harvard, as he told

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<v Speaker 2>a girlfriend or he hoped would be his girlfriend, that

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<v Speaker 2>he thought he would be president. And he followed in

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<v Speaker 2>the footsteps of his cousin, his distant cousin, Theodore Roosevelt,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, planned out his political path of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one a seat to the New York State Senate, then

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<v Speaker 2>became assistant Secretary of the Navy, just like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>t R. Was ran for vice president with Knox, with Cox,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, and you know then of course came down

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<v Speaker 2>with polio. And but he did, you know, when the

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<v Speaker 2>governorship served two terms, and you know, he was looking

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<v Speaker 2>for an opportunity. A lot of people think he was

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<v Speaker 2>just you know, floundering around, well meaning during the depression.

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<v Speaker 2>But as I point out from a speech that he

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<v Speaker 2>gave at the People's Forum in Troy, New York in

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<v Speaker 2>March nineteen twelve, he believed that the Founding Fathers had

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<v Speaker 2>it a little wrong. They wanted independence, but what they

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<v Speaker 2>really wanted was cooperation and interdependence. And he already was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the compulsory programs that he would set up

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<v Speaker 2>in the New Deal. So this is nineteen twelve.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, was he a fan of the Woodrow Wilson style government?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, dictatorial from top down, and you know, the

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<v Speaker 4>the government of experts dictating the terms of conditions of

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<v Speaker 4>our lives.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that his mold.

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<v Speaker 2>A little bit. He was not a great reader or

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<v Speaker 2>a student, you know, he was, you know, living in

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<v Speaker 2>that milieu of progressivism. I don't think he consciously followed

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<v Speaker 2>Woodrow Wilson's program, but they coincidentally matched because Franklin Roosevelt,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, grew up in the Hudson Valley and the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of feudalistic system he thought of himself as, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>being sort of lord of the nation, and that top

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<v Speaker 2>down system you know, aligns with progressivism. Yes, so he

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<v Speaker 2>had these kind of vague notions. But and he you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he did see himself as being powerful, more powerful than

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<v Speaker 2>the other two branches of government.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, and I guess I have to ask, because you know,

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<v Speaker 4>mister Fireside, Chad Fdr. Everybody's like sort of grandfatherly figure

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<v Speaker 4>offering us, you know, comfort and solace in our in

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<v Speaker 4>our difficult times. Excuse me, ma'am, what was he really

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<v Speaker 4>like behind the scenes. Was he that you know, decent,

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<v Speaker 4>reasonable guy or was he kind of boil it down

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<v Speaker 4>as there was he kind of a jerk because a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of people's public persona is not the way they

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<v Speaker 4>really run the run the ship.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right. Yes, he was a master of the radio.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a new medium. That was you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>so was Mussolini. But I quote extensively from a fellow

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<v Speaker 2>Grouten student, Francis Biddle, who became his attorney general ultimately,

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<v Speaker 2>and he writes about what he would do to the

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<v Speaker 2>people closest to him. He had a way of catching

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<v Speaker 2>them when they were most vulnerable and then sort of

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<v Speaker 2>attacking them with something that was very hurtful, and he

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<v Speaker 2>had pleasure in doing that. There's something sadistic about him,

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<v Speaker 2>and even I don't know if you know, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>a psychologist, but when he was a boy, he wrote

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<v Speaker 2>this letter to one of his governesses about how he

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<v Speaker 2>liked to watch squirrels die after he shot them.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it sounds Jeff damer esque.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, it's it's yeah. There was definitely a mean streak,

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<v Speaker 2>and he really was impervious to people's suffering. He was

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<v Speaker 2>very callous. He's yeah, yeah, he sent this maybe lieutenant

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<v Speaker 2>on a He wanted to send him on a suicide

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<v Speaker 2>mission to provoke the Japanese and you know, given given

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<v Speaker 2>what I've discovered about his early life and his pre

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<v Speaker 2>presidential career, that sounds, you know, like it would be true.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that was his character.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm sure there's a DSM diagnosis for somewhere in there.

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<v Speaker 4>Without question. Name of the book, Debunking FDR the Man

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<v Speaker 4>in the my guest today, Mary Grevart. Mary, we put

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<v Speaker 4>your book on my blog page fifty five cars dot

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<v Speaker 4>com so my listeners can easily get a copy learn

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<v Speaker 4>about the realities of FDR rather than the myths and

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<v Speaker 4>legends we've been fed all these years. Mary, It's been

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<v Speaker 4>an interesting conversation. It's a wonderful book, and I know

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<v Speaker 4>my listener is going to really enjoy reading it. And

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<v Speaker 4>I can't thank you enough for the time he's spoke

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<v Speaker 4>my listeners today, just scratching the surface of the man

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<v Speaker 4>who is or was FDR.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 4>It's been my pleasure too. You take care and have

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<v Speaker 4>a wonderful week. It's eight twenty right now, folks. If

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<v Speaker 4>you have krs DE talk station cover Sincy and you know, folks,

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<v Speaker 4>it's not just the Greater Cincinnati area for cover Sincy.

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<v Speaker 4>It is nationwide and it is them acting as your broker.

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<v Speaker 1>They are working for you.

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<v Speaker 4>When it comes to medical insurance, they will they plug

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<v Speaker 4>the holes in the bucket. As John Roman has explained

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<v Speaker 4>to me, you know, your regular insurance policy has got

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of holes in it. You're not covered in

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<v Speaker 4>insurance companies, thousands of different policies, and those different policies

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<v Speaker 4>work to plug all those holes. Up front coverage for

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<v Speaker 4>sure you're covered across the board and ultimately, and it's

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<v Speaker 4>They look specifically at you where you are in your life.

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<v Speaker 4>For example, do you to ensure your entire family? Are

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<v Speaker 4>a small business, he can improve your business's bottom line

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<v Speaker 4>Anywhere you happen to be. If you're listening to me,

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<v Speaker 4>five