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<v Speaker 1>Well whiskey coming fame, my Pain, the money, my ray whiskey.

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<v Speaker 1>Why think alone when you can drink it all? In

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<v Speaker 1>with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour, Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward,

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<v Speaker 1>John Yu and the International Woman of Mystery, Lucretia. Where

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<v Speaker 1>the laps it Appen? David? Ain't you busy on the

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<v Speaker 1>should chaps gotta giving?

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome everyone to a special revolutionary episode of the Three

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<v Speaker 2>Whiskey Happy Hour. I don't even know what the fancy

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<v Speaker 2>Latin word is for two hundred and fiftieth would be

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<v Speaker 2>something like sesq with duo tennial or something. But we

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<v Speaker 2>are taping on the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of

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<v Speaker 2>the battles of Lexington and Conquered, and we will get

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<v Speaker 2>to that in the show itself for our on the

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<v Speaker 2>American Revolution. But there's gonna be a lot of deep

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts in this episode, not the kind of rat attat

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on in the front page of the New

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<v Speaker 2>York Times that drive Steve Hayward's daily agenda.

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<v Speaker 1>So Steve, where are you? How are you? I'm drinking

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<v Speaker 1>Lefroyd ten advertised as huge smoke seaweedy note intense pete

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<v Speaker 1>with as with a hint of sweetness. See seaweedy.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you serious, it says, Scenes says, yes, Seaweedy, You'll

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<v Speaker 2>sell You'll sell dozens in Korea. I mean I grew

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<v Speaker 2>up eating seaweed.

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<v Speaker 1>Korea. That's like George Will's joke about his uh. I

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<v Speaker 1>forget which book it was. It might have been state

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<v Speaker 1>Craft is soul Craft the book that he said that

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<v Speaker 1>sold dozens.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I hope people will go and read

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<v Speaker 2>your book review of Max Boot where you said within

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<v Speaker 2>a month it was already on the remainder tape. Boots,

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<v Speaker 2>bierfy Reagan very five bucks right, and Lucretia, the International

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<v Speaker 2>Woman of Mystery? Where are you? And what are you drinking?

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<v Speaker 2>How you doing?

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<v Speaker 3>I am home and I'm not drinking whiskey. I'm drinking wine.

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<v Speaker 3>But there's a reason. This is good Friday and it's evening,

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<v Speaker 3>but I am fasting, So I figured, you guys really

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<v Speaker 3>don't need me drinking whiskey and an absolutely empty stomach.

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<v Speaker 2>Haven't you been doing that for the last five years

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<v Speaker 2>on Friday nights.

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<v Speaker 3>I miss I eat at noon or afternoon, but I

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<v Speaker 3>don't usually go the entire day unless I'm fasting for

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<v Speaker 3>religious as opposed to diet purposes, which I am doing today,

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<v Speaker 3>and so I am slowly sipping Brunola di Monticino.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, just a note of how the tariff wars

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<v Speaker 2>are disrupting what's really important. The followers of our podcast

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<v Speaker 2>will know that the three of us went to Italy

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<v Speaker 2>and had a great time visiting winery. We were setting

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<v Speaker 2>up for that winery and it's owners to return to

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<v Speaker 2>the United States. Unfortunately, I just got word that they're

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<v Speaker 2>not coming because of the terriffs, and Italian wine are

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<v Speaker 2>so high apparently, and the margins of money they make

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<v Speaker 2>are actually not that great. Yeah, that Italian wine makers

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<v Speaker 2>are thinking of pulling out of the US market.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, lucky thing, my wine refrigerator is full. I will

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<v Speaker 3>tell you that I have not been able to purchase

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<v Speaker 3>any any wine from our friend Giovanni's winery for about

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<v Speaker 3>the last year and a half. I was able to

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<v Speaker 3>get one case and now they have it at the

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<v Speaker 3>place I bought it from originally, but they won't sell

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<v Speaker 3>it to me anymore. And that was long before the

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<v Speaker 3>terrorf So I don't know what the reason for that is.

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<v Speaker 3>It just says, we can't sell it to you where

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<v Speaker 3>you live.

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<v Speaker 2>So oh, that sounds like a dormant commerce clause violation

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<v Speaker 2>to me.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, should I I got a lot of violation's happening.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know, I don't know where to start. John

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<v Speaker 3>must leave it that, So let's start.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been a busy, busy week.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's like each week, well, each topic could

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<v Speaker 2>be its own show. So I think in the first

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<v Speaker 2>segment we're going to talk about the stunning news that

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<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court to the I think the cheers and

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<v Speaker 2>applause of my Claremont friends has granted sir sure or

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<v Speaker 2>I on the birthright citizenship question, Steve, what are your thought?

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<v Speaker 3>Actually?

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<v Speaker 2>And there was a rather long article published in Real

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<v Speaker 2>Clear Investigations where Lucretia and I are featured. I'm kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a punching bag because I think he talked

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<v Speaker 2>to like eight Claremont people and then me. But I

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<v Speaker 2>did have a good last line that was the close

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<v Speaker 2>of the article, right, which Steve didn't even get to

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<v Speaker 2>because he fell asleep two thirds of the way through.

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<v Speaker 1>No, Well, I will post in the show. It's actually

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<v Speaker 1>article ran back in February and it was is Look,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll summarize it this way, which is that here tool

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<v Speaker 1>for the argument against birthright citizenship has kind of been

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<v Speaker 1>limited to a small circle of Claire Monsters, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>John Eastman, Ed Earler, a few others.

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<v Speaker 2>And what didn't you credit earlier with really being the

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<v Speaker 2>first person to focus on this in Claremont world?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Absolutely, yeah, he was writing about this back in

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<v Speaker 1>the eighties and early nineties, and then Eastman picked it

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<v Speaker 1>up some. But now, as that article showed, it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of breaking out into the wider conservative legal world with you,

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<v Speaker 1>Randy Barnett agrees, and a whole of other people. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I sent you guys out the book What Too.

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<v Speaker 3>A new edition is coming out everyone, Everyone, by the

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<v Speaker 3>United States and Crisis by Edward Earler, the paperback edition.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well I'll link to that too. If you've got

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<v Speaker 1>a link you can send to me.

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<v Speaker 2>But look that the point is, just as the paperback

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<v Speaker 2>the book, the book's only one one hundred and fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>to twenty pages long, right in.

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<v Speaker 3>Two new chapters, and it's coming out in paperback.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, the past, just as the clare Monsters were the

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<v Speaker 1>people who kept alive and spread the idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>administrative state, which is now broken out into wide currency. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the issue of birthrights citizenship is now

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<v Speaker 1>breaking out into wider currency. And John, you deserve to

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<v Speaker 1>be the punching bag, because you're a lot of very

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<v Speaker 1>serious people, not steeped or you know, marinated in the

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<v Speaker 1>Claremont world or the Straussian world, even who say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, this is a lot less of a

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<v Speaker 1>slam dunk than people think. And the latest is that

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<v Speaker 1>long Law Review article that I agree with Lucretia's a

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<v Speaker 1>bit turgent, but still I did not expect to see

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<v Speaker 1>the argument criticizing birthright citizenship laid out in such copious

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<v Speaker 1>fashion from Elan Werman, who I don't know, but you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's a young guy. Why is he taking yeah, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why is he taking this up? Well, because he thinks

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<v Speaker 1>it's a serious matter.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean, I've never denied that this is a

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<v Speaker 2>hard You know that this is not easy. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>this is an interesting question of constitutional interpretation. Think you

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<v Speaker 2>guys are going to lose overwhelmingly at the court, but

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<v Speaker 2>I could be wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you had them at least four justices who will

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<v Speaker 1>thought that worth hearing right, And I don't know, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think they did that just to upset liberals who

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<v Speaker 1>are what's that four panel meme that has what's his name,

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<v Speaker 1>Vince McMahon, where you know he's brighter and brighter, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you know they're going to revisit Humphrey's executor. They're gonna,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they're smacking down district court judges and tors

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<v Speaker 1>and they're going to take up birthright citizenship. Oh my god,

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<v Speaker 1>I think the left is going to have a very long,

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<v Speaker 1>sad weekend this weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Lucretia, what are your thoughts about the Court taking up

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<v Speaker 2>you know, says stress. Not only they tacking it up,

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<v Speaker 2>but they have scheduled it for a May argument, which

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<v Speaker 2>they never do. They don't have war arguments in May.

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<v Speaker 2>The term ends in April usually. But that shows to

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<v Speaker 2>me is the level of interest in the court by

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<v Speaker 2>the Court that they've scheduled a special session for this.

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<v Speaker 3>So and you'll remember that when you and I did

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<v Speaker 3>our contributions to the symposium on birthright Citizenship, one of

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<v Speaker 3>the things that I did was I went to the

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<v Speaker 3>famous case which is Wan kim Ark. And you know

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<v Speaker 3>that one's of course been interpreted and analyzed over and over.

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<v Speaker 1>But I went into the.

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<v Speaker 3>Precedents that the Court used to justify their idea that somehow,

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<v Speaker 3>even in that case, legal residents of the United States

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<v Speaker 3>could in fact be considered birthright citizens. And of course

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<v Speaker 3>all of the precedents are misused, do not support the

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<v Speaker 3>court's position in Wan Kim rk. And it really does

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<v Speaker 3>wrap around the whole idea of the common law, the

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<v Speaker 3>idea that somehow our constitution is a common law constitution,

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<v Speaker 3>and everything we need to understand about it is from

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<v Speaker 3>the execrable Blackstone on this subject only, I mean that

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<v Speaker 3>because he talks, of course about subjectship, it has nothing

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<v Speaker 3>to do with citizenship, because the concept of citizen in

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<v Speaker 3>a monarchy is absolutely an oxymor It doesn't exist because

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<v Speaker 3>of course you are not a citizen if you are

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<v Speaker 3>this subject of a monarch. And he talks about the

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<v Speaker 3>allegiance one owes to a monarch, and on and on

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<v Speaker 3>and on. Well, the court misused the precedents that actually

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<v Speaker 3>said exactly that, and none of the precedents that the

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<v Speaker 3>Court used in one Kim Mark actually supported their position,

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<v Speaker 3>and the descent points that out. But so the first

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<v Speaker 3>place is there is it's neither the juris or what's

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<v Speaker 3>the other?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh you you solace, you sanguinous.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's it. So it's neither because of your you're

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<v Speaker 3>automatically a citizenship a citizen excuse because of your parents,

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<v Speaker 3>Nor are you automatically a citizen because of your birth.

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<v Speaker 3>You are a citizen because of social contract. And the

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<v Speaker 3>social contract goes two ways. It is you agree to

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<v Speaker 3>be a citizen and your fellow citizens agree to have you.

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<v Speaker 3>There's not time to go into the whole John Locke

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<v Speaker 3>theory of social contract, but it does change the conversation entirely.

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<v Speaker 3>So bringing up Blackstone or somebody like that has absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>no relevance whatsoever to the discussion of birth right citizenship.

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<v Speaker 3>You must go to the fourteenth Amendment and to the

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<v Speaker 3>subject to jurisdiction clause, and look to the Civil Rights

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<v Speaker 3>Act of eighteen sixty six the subsequent practice. And if

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<v Speaker 3>you do that, we don't have time to go into

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<v Speaker 3>the details. But if you do that, you realize that,

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<v Speaker 3>of course it is up to probably Congress, probably Congress

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<v Speaker 3>to determine what subject to the jurisdiction means, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>certainly does and can mean that Congress can choose not

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<v Speaker 3>to grant citizenship to the children of parents results.

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<v Speaker 2>I ask you something because you didn't I don't remember

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<v Speaker 2>you making this argument when we talked about last time.

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<v Speaker 2>But why does Congress get to define subject to the

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<v Speaker 2>jurisdiction rather than the courts?

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<v Speaker 3>Because it's the fifth the section Yeah, the enforcement close

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<v Speaker 3>says nothing about the courts doing it. It's entirely up

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<v Speaker 3>to Congress to define what all of the provisions of

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<v Speaker 3>the Fourteenth Amendment.

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<v Speaker 1>Section.

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<v Speaker 2>Section five says in fource not interpret.

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<v Speaker 3>By appropriate legislation. Yeah, well, so they have to ask

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<v Speaker 3>the court before they can pass legislation pursue it to

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<v Speaker 3>the Fourteenth Amendment. Is that what you're arguing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm saying that can Congress change the meaning of

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<v Speaker 2>the words in the Fourteenth Amendment from what the Court

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<v Speaker 2>has already said it means?

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<v Speaker 3>Of course it can, because the Court's not the final

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<v Speaker 3>say on that it does the Fourteenth Amendments. Is that

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<v Speaker 3>the Court is not. I mean that, I can't argue

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<v Speaker 3>that to somebody who's you know, very much part of

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<v Speaker 3>the legal profession and very distinguished in the area of

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<v Speaker 3>you know, the Supreme Court and someone but let's be serious.

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<v Speaker 2>Here.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course, Congress can determine that subject to its jurisdiction

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<v Speaker 3>means you must be subject in this way. This is

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<v Speaker 3>and the Court can't say anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Could Congress pass a law over turning Wan Kim ark.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that they need to, because the second

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<v Speaker 3>part of my argument is that Wang Kim arc of

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<v Speaker 3>course doesn't apply because he was in fact born to

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<v Speaker 3>parents who were here, if not legally, before before illegal

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<v Speaker 3>residents or legal aliens were really a thing that anybody

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<v Speaker 3>worried about. So it's so anachronistic it really doesn't apply.

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<v Speaker 3>And if if the Supreme Court decides to rely on

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<v Speaker 3>Wan Kim, market will just show that they're all about

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<v Speaker 3>judicial supremacy and they don't give a damn what either

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<v Speaker 3>the constitution or legal theory has to say. There you go.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I ask a point of clarification lucretia, because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>having some heartburn right now. Did I take you a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of minutes ago to reject Blackstone wholesale or just

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<v Speaker 1>Blackstone as applied to this question, because he wasn't called.

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<v Speaker 3>Blackstone in a lot of ways should be rejected. And

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<v Speaker 3>the whole idea that we can somehow substitute a written

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<v Speaker 3>constitution for the with the common law should be rejected.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think there's quite a bit to be learned

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<v Speaker 3>from Blackstone. It's just if you're just going to accept

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<v Speaker 3>Blackstone wholesale. Blackstone said this, so we have to do

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<v Speaker 3>it because the Constitution is based on Blackstone's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>don't I.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't actually think that people on the side I favor

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<v Speaker 2>and hope aren't saying and the Constitution that somehow in

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<v Speaker 2>corporates Blackstone. It's more, you know, there are words in

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<v Speaker 2>the Constitution that are from the eighteenth century legal words,

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<v Speaker 2>and why not look at Blackstone to see what the

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<v Speaker 2>kammal law thinks. It's not that the kammalaw controls the

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<v Speaker 2>Constitution's meaning, because they clearly tried to change some of

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<v Speaker 2>the meanings. But it's just like it's just a tool

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<v Speaker 2>of interpretation, like looking at a dictionary.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's not that.

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<v Speaker 2>But that is the what I don't get about Edstone.

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<v Speaker 2>Ed's argument is constantly that the common law is like

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<v Speaker 2>an ideology that's rejected by Locke, right, and that I

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<v Speaker 2>think that there's a common law too much.

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<v Speaker 3>Credit in the social contract theory. It does. But what

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<v Speaker 3>I would say is that, first of all, the Fourteenth

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<v Speaker 3>Amendment was not eighteenth century, So there's nothing to turn

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<v Speaker 3>to with respect to Blackstone that would inform us in

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<v Speaker 3>any way, shape or form about what the framers of

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<v Speaker 3>the Fourteenth Amendment meant.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And second, and there are in fact sources whatever you

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<v Speaker 3>want to call it, that that should be turned to. Again,

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<v Speaker 3>the debates in Congress over the Fourteenth Amendment, that debates

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<v Speaker 3>in Congress over the A teen sixty six Civil Rights Act,

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<v Speaker 3>those things are, in my opinion, absolutely controlling, to the

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<v Speaker 3>extent that any kind of reference to something outside the

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<v Speaker 3>words of the Constitution should be controlling. It's certainly not Blackstone,

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<v Speaker 3>That's what I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I would agree, I don't think any of those

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<v Speaker 2>sources are controlling. They're just ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, and I didn't well, I didn't mean to get

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<v Speaker 1>off on the black way. Maybe we could do a

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<v Speaker 1>whole half sec or half an episode on Blackstone sometime.

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<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to suggest that, No, I agree with

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<v Speaker 1>you the creation that it is not useful for the

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<v Speaker 1>Fourteenth Amendment in this particular question or other Fourteenth Amendment questions.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do think Blackstone was very influential with the

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<v Speaker 1>founders and understanding on law, and John correct me. I

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<v Speaker 1>thought in the Heller Oral arguments way back when, Blackstone's

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of the right of self defense, Oh yeah, was

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<v Speaker 1>part of the oral argument and thought important. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think the logic of the logic of Blackstone is still

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<v Speaker 1>compelling on that and many other issues.

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<v Speaker 2>So actually, you look at like opinions by Scalia and

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<v Speaker 2>Heller and the Second Amendment cases, the justices don't see

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<v Speaker 2>Blackstone in law as being in contradiction. Generally they think

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<v Speaker 2>of them as kind of That's what I mean, Like

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<v Speaker 2>the common law is not to lawyers. We don't think

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<v Speaker 2>of it as an ideology or political theory. It's just

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<v Speaker 2>the accumulation of practice. It's just like what the British

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<v Speaker 2>were doing at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't natural law, John, See, I don't think it

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<v Speaker 1>is even And what.

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<v Speaker 3>The reason that I have a fundamental suspicion of using Blackstone.

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<v Speaker 2>Is exactly you don't want to use them at all.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, A suspicion that doesn't mean not at all,

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<v Speaker 3>but a suspicion about it is because we have a

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<v Speaker 3>written constitution, The British Constitution is in fact, what what

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<v Speaker 3>did you call it whatever you said. The British Constitution

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<v Speaker 3>is not written law. A written constitution is something entirely

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<v Speaker 3>different than the common law, the common law, good practice,

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<v Speaker 3>over time, et cetera, et cetera. All of that's great,

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<v Speaker 3>But we have a written constitution with one purpose to

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<v Speaker 3>define exactly what the powers of government are and to

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<v Speaker 3>make sure that they're no greater than that, because the

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<v Speaker 3>people are sovereign. Blackstone wrote for a monarch who was sovereign,

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<v Speaker 3>and all power emanated from the monarch. That's why Blackstone

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<v Speaker 3>is not generally speaking applicable to the American constitutional system.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, appreciate it. Just blew a hole in the unitary executive.

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<v Speaker 1>Theory then, no, no, not at all.

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<v Speaker 3>The unitary executive theory stands on its own. It doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>need Blackstone.

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<v Speaker 2>No, But the definition of what the executive power means

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<v Speaker 2>under the people write about this, A lot of it

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<v Speaker 2>comes from Blackstone. Well that's where Hamilton looks too in

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<v Speaker 2>the Pacific. Okay, what a wonderful conversation we're having, and

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<v Speaker 2>we have hit the first of our commercial breaks. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>sorry I have to call this to a temporary help,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm sure on I think it's May fifteenth, when

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<v Speaker 2>the arguments are going to be held, We'll have a

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<v Speaker 2>live play by play commentary by your friends at the

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<v Speaker 2>three Whiskey Happy Hour. So we will be back after

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<v Speaker 2>these messages. Well, one place that is no doubt going

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<v Speaker 2>to have no debates about birthright citizenship because they don't

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<v Speaker 2>let John Eastman on campus was going to be Harvard University.

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<v Speaker 2>I just probably had you know there used to be

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was. Was it a McLoughlin group, basically

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<v Speaker 2>a great segment like Winner of the Week, Loser of

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<v Speaker 2>the week. There's no doubt that Harvard University has been

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<v Speaker 2>the loser of the week. It started out with the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump administration on Friday, and then Harvard I think, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess came back with his response over the weekend, and

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<v Speaker 2>then on Monday saying that it was going to cut

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<v Speaker 2>Harvard off from twenty two billion dollars in.

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<v Speaker 1>Federal two point two billion.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's a two point two billion, maybe nine billion,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe go.

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<v Speaker 1>Up to nine with another six billion in questions.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, because US Harvard is refusing to cooperate with the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump administration's demands that it stopped DEI, stop the use

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<v Speaker 2>of race, protect Jewish students, you know, attack anti Semitism.

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<v Speaker 2>But then the list went a little farther, I think

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<v Speaker 2>than I was certainly expecting. It included things like changing

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<v Speaker 2>Harvard's governing structure, requiring viewpoint diversity and emissions and faculty

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<v Speaker 2>hiring and the running of departments, requiring that certain departments

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<v Speaker 2>be placed under special scrutiny, and something like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>being thrown into bankruptcy proceedings as it were. And so

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<v Speaker 2>Harvard said, no, no, we'll never do this, as interferes

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<v Speaker 2>with our academic freedom and the First Amendment and free

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<v Speaker 2>speech and refused. The next day, Trump said, well, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>Harvard doesn't need its tax exempt status anymore, and the

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<v Speaker 2>IRS is apparently currently investigating whether Harvard ought to be

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<v Speaker 2>stripped of its taxis and status. And then the next

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<v Speaker 2>day Trump said, and maybe that I shouldn't be allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to have any international students because they have not been

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<v Speaker 2>providing records and keeping tabs and reporting to the federal

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<v Speaker 2>government all the students and where they're from and what

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<v Speaker 2>they're up to. So lucreat it sounds like Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>been listening to the podcast and doing all the things

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<v Speaker 2>you want to do to universities. But let me ask

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<v Speaker 2>you do you think they went too far? I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to me they're on safe ground with the

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<v Speaker 2>anti semitism ending, the use of race ending, the use

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<v Speaker 2>of DEI. But what about all these other things, like

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<v Speaker 2>these departments have to start hiring people of diverse viewpoints,

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<v Speaker 2>and emissions has to be restructured, and the governing system

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<v Speaker 2>of Harvard has to change.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I suppose you can argue that those other

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<v Speaker 3>things that the follow on things, as you put it,

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<v Speaker 3>that might be going too far, they're probably necessary if

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<v Speaker 3>any of the other instructions are going to be at

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<v Speaker 3>all effective. Here's what I think is a really important

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<v Speaker 3>point to be remembering this is a political thing. It

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<v Speaker 3>may be a little bit of revenge and so on,

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<v Speaker 3>because but this is a political thing. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I might even if you'll forgive me, I don't want

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<v Speaker 3>to get into the other discussion yet, but I might

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<v Speaker 3>even go so far as to say that it is

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<v Speaker 3>on par with the Brago Garcia scumbag thing going on

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<v Speaker 3>on the left, where Trump understands absolutely. How does this

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<v Speaker 3>play to magaland how does this play to those independents

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<v Speaker 3>that are continue to move toward Trump? How does this

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps even I'll throw a bone to you two overcome

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<v Speaker 3>the tariff discussion. Because if I'm a middle class, lower

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<v Speaker 3>middle class household, and you know, I'm looking at my

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<v Speaker 3>federal income taxes, which we all just paid last week,

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<v Speaker 3>or you know, paid war last week, I guess I

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<v Speaker 3>should say then, And I'm knowing that a Harvard has

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<v Speaker 3>this huge endowment that people who give money to Harvard

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<v Speaker 3>get tax exempt status for giving that money, that their

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<v Speaker 3>endowment is not taxed. That there they're tax free bonds,

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<v Speaker 3>on and on and on, And I'm thinking to myself, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>how many students would you guys told me what their

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<v Speaker 3>their freshman class is? Four hundred?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that right?

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<v Speaker 3>No?

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<v Speaker 1>No, No, it's much bigger than that, But whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sixteen hundred a little more.

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<v Speaker 3>We talked when we talked about the Harvard case, you

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<v Speaker 3>mentioned that they could triple the size of it.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, oh yeah, I mean, I mean an undergraduate

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<v Speaker 2>body here at Berkeley is like six thousand.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, and ours is even much bigger. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>my point is, why am I the struggling homeowner? You know,

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<v Speaker 3>my working two jobs can't pay this or that, can't

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<v Speaker 3>go out to eat more than once every month, whatever

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<v Speaker 3>it might be, Why am I subsidizing Because tax exempt

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<v Speaker 3>status is a subsidy for an a an entity that

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<v Speaker 3>has proven itself to be anti American politically. We don't

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<v Speaker 3>even have to go into all the evidence of Harvard

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<v Speaker 3>other than John who didn't give his usual a full

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<v Speaker 3>disclosure that he is in fact a Harvard graduate.

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<v Speaker 2>Not only am I a Harvard graduate, I'm one of

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<v Speaker 2>the greatest Harvard graduates, the greatest.

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<v Speaker 3>John is a rarity at Harvard because not only is

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<v Speaker 3>he conservad you made it out of Harvard relatively with

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<v Speaker 3>some relatively conservative.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean was I was actually the conservative columnist on

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<v Speaker 2>the student newspaper, which maybe there's one every five years.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I wrote all kinds. I wrote a comm

423
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.079
<v Speaker 2>endorsing George H. W. Bush for president, which drove the

424
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.960
<v Speaker 2>rest of the which is why.

425
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:06.519
<v Speaker 3>They are afraid John's head paper mache head that people

426
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.519
<v Speaker 3>can throw things at ye. But my point is very simple.

427
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 3>All of these, all of these tax issues and DEI issues,

428
00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:18.519
<v Speaker 3>and and you know the idea that Harvard's you know,

429
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.440
<v Speaker 3>raking in money because they're they're contributing so much to

430
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.400
<v Speaker 3>the world. Really other than John. I don't see anything

431
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:32.720
<v Speaker 3>that's a great argument for Trump. It's an absolutely great

432
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.960
<v Speaker 3>political argument for Trump, and I think he probably believes

433
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:39.519
<v Speaker 3>in it too. I'm not saying it's totally you know,

434
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 3>crass and that kind of thing. I think he believes it,

435
00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:47.240
<v Speaker 3>but he recognizes that framed properly, nobody gives a damn

436
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:50.359
<v Speaker 3>about Harvard losing their tax exempt status or their nine

437
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.160
<v Speaker 3>billion or whatever it is. They're rich, they know, we

438
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:56.079
<v Speaker 3>know they're rich. Stop letting people give money to that,

439
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:57.680
<v Speaker 3>and let them give to a real charity.

440
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:00.839
<v Speaker 1>There you go, Oh, I am rubbing my Steve.

441
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Steve's strip tax exempt status from all universities in the country.

442
00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:08.839
<v Speaker 1>Well, well, so, first of all, I'm rubbing my hands

443
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.279
<v Speaker 1>with glee because for a rare occasion, I can be

444
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.480
<v Speaker 1>much more radical than Lucretia on this subject.

445
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:13.920
<v Speaker 3>Real.

446
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:16.359
<v Speaker 1>First of all, I won't go in precise order, but

447
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.039
<v Speaker 1>since you raised the tax exempt status, you know, I'm

448
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:21.200
<v Speaker 1>so old. I remember the Bob Jones case in the

449
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:26.039
<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties, and the issue there was, well, they did well,

450
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.319
<v Speaker 1>they lost in court of it ultimately too, but which

451
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:30.720
<v Speaker 1>is important because the Reagan people said, wait a minute,

452
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the irs does not get to enforce civil rights laws.

453
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:35.480
<v Speaker 1>That has to be done through the Justice Department or

454
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:38.559
<v Speaker 1>somewhere else. They didn't actually say Bob Jones was exempt

455
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>from civil rights a vulnerability discrimination, but said IRIS. And

456
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:46.200
<v Speaker 1>then the Supreme Court disagreed and they said no, no,

457
00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:48.519
<v Speaker 1>actually they get to. And so it seems to me

458
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:52.519
<v Speaker 1>that if the IRS can use Title six and the

459
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.279
<v Speaker 1>Civil Rights Act against Bob Jones University, they can. The

460
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.799
<v Speaker 1>IRS can do it the Harvard University today. And this

461
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:01.880
<v Speaker 1>gets onto using the left's rules against them, which maybe

462
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.000
<v Speaker 1>we'll come to in a minute. But look, I mean,

463
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.000
<v Speaker 1>I like to think that Trump escalated because they thought,

464
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:09.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, we gave in too easily to Columbia. We didn't.

465
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.880
<v Speaker 1>We weren't tough enough on them. Here's the point. If

466
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:13.920
<v Speaker 1>you can break Harvard, if Trump can break Harvard, you

467
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.559
<v Speaker 1>will break every other university in the country. So I

468
00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:19.279
<v Speaker 1>think the extreme demands, all of which I like. By

469
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the way, I'll just stipulate that are designed to make

470
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:24.480
<v Speaker 1>this a fight to the death. And maybe it's the

471
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:26.160
<v Speaker 1>right week for it. John, I know you wanted to

472
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.880
<v Speaker 1>bring up that this is the two hundred and fiftieth

473
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.640
<v Speaker 1>anniversary of the firing on Lexington Concord. Well, this is

474
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.160
<v Speaker 1>the week we fired on Harvard University to start a

475
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.559
<v Speaker 1>new revolution against our corrupt universities. Oh my god, I'll

476
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.000
<v Speaker 1>just see. I told you I should compete with Lucrestian this.

477
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Let me just say two more things about it. I

478
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:46.880
<v Speaker 1>could say a lot of it. I'll just say two.

479
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>And there are two related thought experiments. We saw two

480
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:54.160
<v Speaker 1>weeks ago that at Princeton University you had a mob

481
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:58.160
<v Speaker 1>of students yelling at Jews go back to Europe. So far,

482
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 1>i've heard no disciplinary measures or whatever. Now suppose at

483
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Harvard you had a bunch of white students yelling at

484
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.319
<v Speaker 1>black students go back to Africa. There would be a

485
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:12.480
<v Speaker 1>five alarm fire nationwide for weeks. At Harvard would have

486
00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:17.079
<v Speaker 1>expelled all those students within fifteen minutes. Okay, Now on

487
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 1>the foreign students. My favorite part is excluding the foreign

488
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:23.160
<v Speaker 1>students overall. One is it's gonna it's going to hurt

489
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:25.680
<v Speaker 1>the revenue streams for a lot of universities, because Chinese

490
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.000
<v Speaker 1>students is a revenue model, an important one for a

491
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:30.799
<v Speaker 1>lot of programs. This is well known, probably not Harvard,

492
00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.039
<v Speaker 1>but I think it's the middle Eastern students and the

493
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, anti Semitic, anti American ones they're bringing in.

494
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:40.359
<v Speaker 1>So a related thought experiment, suppose forty years ago, whatever

495
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.720
<v Speaker 1>it was, that South Africa was the big issue on campuses, right,

496
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and if Harvard had said, no, we're not taking any

497
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 1>white South African foreign students who defend apartheid because those

498
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 1>values are repugnant to us, They're poisonous, and so we

499
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.480
<v Speaker 1>won't do it. I think this is exactly the same.

500
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I think our government is exactly right to say we

501
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:01.599
<v Speaker 1>are not going to let you universities admit foreign students

502
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:05.480
<v Speaker 1>who are anti Semitic or anti American, and you know, universities,

503
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:07.440
<v Speaker 1>you just have to shape up. The other issue is

504
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>I will just leave aside for the moment, because I

505
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.039
<v Speaker 1>could go on on the viewpoint diversity thing for a

506
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:13.680
<v Speaker 1>long time too. I will just say, listeners, if you

507
00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 1>want to know what's wrong, what's wrong one of the

508
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:19.400
<v Speaker 1>things wrong with universities. And maybe Lucretia wants to come

509
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:23.839
<v Speaker 1>back in on this, just google cluster hires at places

510
00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:28.640
<v Speaker 1>like Cornell or in California. Right, cluster hires, Right, but

511
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:31.000
<v Speaker 1>we're missing.

512
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.359
<v Speaker 3>Before he goes on, before you go in I just

513
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.960
<v Speaker 3>have to address the cluster hires really quick, John, because

514
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.440
<v Speaker 3>when I was being pushed at one point to make

515
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:46.200
<v Speaker 3>a cluster higher for all of my military friends out there,

516
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:49.559
<v Speaker 3>there is a different word that the military is fond

517
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.599
<v Speaker 3>of using, and the first part is cluster. The second

518
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.720
<v Speaker 3>word starts with an F and ends with a K.

519
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.559
<v Speaker 3>So I will let you use your imagination family show.

520
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:00.839
<v Speaker 2>Not a family.

521
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:04.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm tired of hearing about these cluster and I use

522
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.519
<v Speaker 3>the wrong word by honestly, by accident. Military it was.

523
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 3>It was quite the moment, let me just tell you.

524
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.200
<v Speaker 3>But that's what I think of when I think of

525
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:13.039
<v Speaker 3>cluster hires.

526
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.720
<v Speaker 2>Yes, right, So just one last question, though, do you

527
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.640
<v Speaker 2>worry you know, since we're conservatives who like to have

528
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.640
<v Speaker 2>a federal government of limited powers, all these policies in

529
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that letter from the government, I think would be entirely

530
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 2>beneficial for universities, great improvements. Oh but do you worry

531
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 2>that it's too it goes beyond what the federal government

532
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.640
<v Speaker 2>should be doing. And do you worry about what happens

533
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:41.920
<v Speaker 2>when President GRETCHENM. Whitmer comes into office in twenty twenty nine,

534
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.319
<v Speaker 2>what they would do with exact same power let me just.

535
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Say that I'll answer the second part. First, John, they

536
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.119
<v Speaker 3>did do that, Bob Jones and others. I mean, how

537
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.240
<v Speaker 3>many diniversities other than Hillsdale are out there refusing to

538
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.920
<v Speaker 3>take federal dollars? And secondly, what I will argue is

539
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.240
<v Speaker 3>is from the point of view of conservative smaller government,

540
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 3>less powerful government, all of those things, what we have

541
00:30:07.960 --> 00:30:12.519
<v Speaker 3>is the opposite. And what Trump is doing is threatening

542
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 3>to take away something Harvard never had a right to

543
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 3>in the first place, and that is, you know, massive

544
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:25.319
<v Speaker 3>amounts of government funding, massive amounts of you know, what's

545
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.839
<v Speaker 3>essentially revenue generated by the fact that they don't pay

546
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:33.039
<v Speaker 3>taxes on so many things, so many things including tuition.

547
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.160
<v Speaker 3>This is this could possibly actually tax the revenue that

548
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.440
<v Speaker 3>they make from tuition. Why is a university exempt from that?

549
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.839
<v Speaker 3>Most most corporations, and Harvard is a corporation, are not

550
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.920
<v Speaker 3>exempt from taxes like that. They're not a religion, they're

551
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.519
<v Speaker 3>not a church. So what's the purpose of them being

552
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 3>tax exempt in the first place. And so I just

553
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:57.119
<v Speaker 3>want to make it very clear that what we're not

554
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:03.119
<v Speaker 3>talking about is additional government interference. We're talking about less

555
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:04.400
<v Speaker 3>government interference.

556
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Here, Well, I can i add to that that, first

557
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:09.359
<v Speaker 1>of all, I'm not afraid of that at all, because

558
00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:11.880
<v Speaker 1>it's what they've been doing already, and if they go

559
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.599
<v Speaker 1>into higher gear, it's just going to make it worse

560
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>for the universities down the road, I think. By the way,

561
00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:18.920
<v Speaker 1>let's to Lucretia's point, Let's keep in mind that there

562
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.839
<v Speaker 1>has been this growing and for time thriving for profit

563
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.839
<v Speaker 1>educational sector. It's mostly for vocational education, things like the

564
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.079
<v Speaker 1>University of Phoenix and certain other ones like that, and

565
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:35.640
<v Speaker 1>starting with Obama, the federal government has persecuted those institutions ruthlessly,

566
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.960
<v Speaker 1>and the reasons for that were entirely political, because they

567
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:43.400
<v Speaker 1>were actually competing for students for things like nursing degrees

568
00:31:43.480 --> 00:31:45.559
<v Speaker 1>that you know, bookkeeping, practical things that could get you

569
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:47.720
<v Speaker 1>a job instead of going to a liberal arts college

570
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 1>where you're going to be converted into being like simple.

571
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.359
<v Speaker 3>And accessible kinds of constructional methodology. Yes.

572
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 1>Right, Oh, and you know, I've known some people in

573
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:58.480
<v Speaker 1>that business and they say, you can't believe the kind

574
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.960
<v Speaker 1>of harassment we get from the federal govern Starting with

575
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Obama and Biden double down on all that. So you

576
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.480
<v Speaker 1>know they're already doing this and this gets back to

577
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:09.359
<v Speaker 1>or it gets onto that I think terrific article in

578
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the news article in the Wall Street Journal that has

579
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.640
<v Speaker 1>raised a ruckus on the right, quoting quist Roofe on

580
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:16.400
<v Speaker 1>others sayings.

581
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.759
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we're getting to that after the break, so let's

582
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>still Actually this is actually the perfect time because we

583
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.680
<v Speaker 2>are bringing up on our second good break, and since

584
00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Steve already started the segue, although I wasn't really sure how,

585
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.920
<v Speaker 2>but we're going to interrupt the right in the middle

586
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:39.759
<v Speaker 2>and we'll be back right after these messages. Okay, So Steve,

587
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:41.680
<v Speaker 2>you were going to bring up this article, which I'll

588
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:45.000
<v Speaker 2>describe briefly a very interesting Wall Street Journal piece. It

589
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 2>says that the real guiding philosopher of the New Right

590
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and perhaps of the Trump administration is none other than

591
00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Antonio Gramshe. Gram She's famous early twentieth cent from Marxist.

592
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.480
<v Speaker 2>I had to read him in college for our sociology class,

593
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.720
<v Speaker 2>which was what I actually thought was really interesting. But

594
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:11.559
<v Speaker 2>his main argument was that it was very interesting because

595
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, Marxists have a problem. You know,

596
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:18.759
<v Speaker 2>the communist revolutions occurred in the least developed economies Russia

597
00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:21.440
<v Speaker 2>and China when they were supposed to occur the most

598
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:25.640
<v Speaker 2>advanced capitalist societies like the United States, England and France,

599
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:29.599
<v Speaker 2>and so Graham She's solution was that it was to

600
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:33.640
<v Speaker 2>switch the focus of Marxism away from or at least

601
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.599
<v Speaker 2>explain why it hadn't happened in those economies by saying

602
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.559
<v Speaker 2>that had to happen with culture first. It wasn't really

603
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.359
<v Speaker 2>descriptive so much as a call for action. And you

604
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.839
<v Speaker 2>can see all these I actually was. And so then

605
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.680
<v Speaker 2>Christopher Ruffo, a friend of ours who's at the Manhattan Institute,

606
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 2>who's been really the guy who is beating the drama

607
00:33:54.839 --> 00:34:00.519
<v Speaker 2>about critical race theory, yes, very successfully, you know. He

608
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.279
<v Speaker 2>he says he's a great reader and admirer of graham

609
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:08.519
<v Speaker 2>sheet and admitted that he's been guided by gram Steve

610
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>is quite taken with this article, because Steve, I think

611
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.199
<v Speaker 2>his little red shirt he's a little Marxist in art anyway,

612
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:23.519
<v Speaker 2>he's a red shirt wearing lafoud drinking Marxist. Steve.

613
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:29.519
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, I mean I think Lucreatia will agree

614
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 1>with me on some of this, or maybe most of it. Look,

615
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.079
<v Speaker 1>the argument is, so why you left out John that

616
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Ramsky is credited with having come up with the phrase,

617
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:41.840
<v Speaker 1>we need to have the long march through the institutions.

618
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Apparently he didn't, it was someone else, but it's very

619
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 1>congruent with his thinking, which was, Oh, and then the

620
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Frankfurt School that you know.

621
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:51.440
<v Speaker 2>The Frankfurt School. You know, it's just like people who

622
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.760
<v Speaker 2>were not as profound as gram she, but were just

623
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of applying.

624
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.199
<v Speaker 1>His Arguably, they were more profound but more insidious.

625
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, God, I found the Frankfurt School people

626
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:08.119
<v Speaker 2>so turgid and people She's actually fun to read, I think, right,

627
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, well, he was more political.

628
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.960
<v Speaker 1>The other guys were more philosophical, but but they shared

629
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.599
<v Speaker 1>this insight, which is culture is more important than economic

630
00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.320
<v Speaker 1>material forces. And so that's why you want to capture

631
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.559
<v Speaker 1>the cultural high ground, which of course the left is

632
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:22.920
<v Speaker 1>done Hollywood.

633
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Universities, public universities exactly, media entertainment.

634
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 1>And so Rufo's point and the people who say, well,

635
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.679
<v Speaker 1>maybe we need to do that, and the criticism, and

636
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I won't name any names, but I've been reading it

637
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:38.039
<v Speaker 1>the last yesterday and today from some people, Oh, this

638
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 1>is terrible. We should stick to our principles of conservatism

639
00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and Burkinism and classical liberalism, And I'm thinking, here's the

640
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.199
<v Speaker 1>whole problem and why I'm like what Trump is doing,

641
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.039
<v Speaker 1>even when I think it's being done clumsily. Even once

642
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:54.760
<v Speaker 1>it's done clumsily, I like it because we've been playing

643
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:58.000
<v Speaker 1>nice for fifty years and slowly losing on all fronts.

644
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:02.039
<v Speaker 1>And let's take them Skins at their word that everything's

645
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.920
<v Speaker 1>a struggle for power. Said, fine, it's a struggle for power,

646
00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>then we're going to compete for it, and we're going

647
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.119
<v Speaker 1>to We now have reached the point where you need

648
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.239
<v Speaker 1>some exercises of raw power to turn back the damage

649
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:14.679
<v Speaker 1>they have done. Trying to be nice to universities into

650
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.239
<v Speaker 1>Hollywood has not worked and is not going to work

651
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.000
<v Speaker 1>full stop. And so the you know, I think what

652
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>you've got is the I didn't like this phrase during

653
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.159
<v Speaker 1>Trump won, but now I kind of agree with it.

654
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:28.920
<v Speaker 1>The sort of vs Conservatives as someone called them. It

655
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.920
<v Speaker 1>might have been our pal Michael Walsh, who really understands

656
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.400
<v Speaker 1>the Frankfurt people. Well, you know, they're willing to continue

657
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:39.159
<v Speaker 1>losing as long as they can be nice and play

658
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:41.119
<v Speaker 1>with the old rules. And I think we're done with

659
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:43.239
<v Speaker 1>all that. I think that's what we've seen from Obama

660
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:46.159
<v Speaker 1>and the Biden administration. So you know, we need to

661
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:48.920
<v Speaker 1>crush them. I mean, it's that simple. It's a fight

662
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to the death. Mitch Decor said that forty years ago,

663
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:54.679
<v Speaker 1>said a culture wars are matters of the heart and

664
00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:57.599
<v Speaker 1>their fight to the death, unlike fighting about tariffs or

665
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.000
<v Speaker 1>labor policy or other kinds of things where they're economic

666
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 1>winners and losers. That's small potatoes. So I'm all for this.

667
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.559
<v Speaker 1>I agree with it. I will add this one last

668
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:11.199
<v Speaker 1>bit and see from Lucretia, Greece. There's really nothing in

669
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:15.480
<v Speaker 1>the Frankfurt schools criticisms and epis on culture that you

670
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:17.679
<v Speaker 1>actually can't find in the classics. You know, they say

671
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:20.119
<v Speaker 1>language is a tool of power. Well, that's what Plato's

672
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Gorgias was all about. It turns out that to all

673
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.119
<v Speaker 1>of the arguments, and Plato's trying to teach you a

674
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.559
<v Speaker 1>deep appreciation for not only natural right but also the

675
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 1>necessities of politics. But we become so illiterate starting in

676
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.519
<v Speaker 1>the mid twentieth century that these crazy German immigrats come

677
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.159
<v Speaker 1>along like Horkhimer, and people think, oh, this is something new.

678
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 1>It's not new at all. It's one of the oldest

679
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:41.639
<v Speaker 1>arguments in political philosophy.

680
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Steve is trying to outflank you on the radicalism now measure,

681
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:48.679
<v Speaker 2>but he.

682
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:53.000
<v Speaker 3>Did somewhat conflate two different issues. One is the cultural

683
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:58.119
<v Speaker 3>culture war per se, I didn't disagree with anything he said,

684
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 3>And the other is the methods, the means versus the ends.

685
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:08.679
<v Speaker 3>So by beginning and even giving credence to those idiot conservatives,

686
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:12.039
<v Speaker 3>vishy conservatives we'll call them, who say somehow we can't

687
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.840
<v Speaker 3>abandon our principles. I don't know if Steve remembers this,

688
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.519
<v Speaker 3>but this is this was a defining moment for me,

689
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:21.480
<v Speaker 3>and like Steve, this is where I become analogy lucretia.

690
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:25.639
<v Speaker 3>I fit many many things into the framework that this

691
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:29.920
<v Speaker 3>that this created in my mind. So our professor Harry

692
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Jaffa was talking about how Ted Kennedy had invited Pat Robertson.

693
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.199
<v Speaker 3>I think it was Pat Robertson. Somebody who at that.

694
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.519
<v Speaker 3>I mean this was in the early eighties, guys, I'm

695
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:47.760
<v Speaker 3>really old. In the early eighties, Ted Kennedy had invited

696
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:51.639
<v Speaker 3>Pat roberts Robertson. Let me do that the other way.

697
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 3>Pat Robertson invited Ted Kennedy to come and speak to

698
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.320
<v Speaker 3>some some conservative group, and I think I have the

699
00:38:58.400 --> 00:38:59.679
<v Speaker 3>name right, but it could have been one of those

700
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:03.400
<v Speaker 3>other people. And they gave Ted Kennedy a standing ovation,

701
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.119
<v Speaker 3>and Ted Kennedy returned the favor, and they booed Pat

702
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Robertson off the stage. Now, think what you want about

703
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:18.599
<v Speaker 3>that anecdote. That is a microcosm of conservatives versus liberals.

704
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:22.480
<v Speaker 3>We don't want to be like those liberals who those

705
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:26.400
<v Speaker 3>leftists who would boo somebody off the stage. That's not gentlemanly,

706
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:31.639
<v Speaker 3>that's not h So those are not our principles. Those

707
00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:36.239
<v Speaker 3>are our methods. And the problem with conservatives, over and

708
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:39.960
<v Speaker 3>over and over again is that they refuse to fight dirty.

709
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:43.760
<v Speaker 3>They when Obama says, we don't bring a knife to

710
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.719
<v Speaker 3>a gunfight, and then we don't bring and then we

711
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.039
<v Speaker 3>bring knives to a gunfight, over and over and over again.

712
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:52.960
<v Speaker 3>So that's the first thing I'll say about it. And

713
00:39:53.079 --> 00:39:55.159
<v Speaker 3>I do think Graham, she has a great bit to

714
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:00.280
<v Speaker 3>teach us there. I cried when Andrew Breitbart died. It

715
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.519
<v Speaker 3>really did. I mean, it caught me and I was

716
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:04.320
<v Speaker 3>like the tears were running down my face. I was

717
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 3>very sad. That's how seriously. I took Andrew Breitbart. You

718
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.920
<v Speaker 3>can think what you want about him, but I thought

719
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:13.639
<v Speaker 3>he was amazing. And so the second part of that

720
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:19.599
<v Speaker 3>is we're not abandoning our principles when we decide our

721
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:24.199
<v Speaker 3>principles are worth fighting for. That's the argument I'd want

722
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:27.760
<v Speaker 3>to make, and learning to fight the way we need

723
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:31.079
<v Speaker 3>to fight, and not oh my gentleman friend across the

724
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:36.119
<v Speaker 3>aisle McCain style, or Lindsey Graham's style or Mitt Romney style.

725
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.239
<v Speaker 3>Screw them. I'm done with those people. It is the

726
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:43.639
<v Speaker 3>things that we believe in that we care about. I

727
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.599
<v Speaker 3>would argue that not one of us on this podcast,

728
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.559
<v Speaker 3>and probably not one of our listeners would disagree about

729
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.960
<v Speaker 3>the things we care about. Where the debate happens is

730
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.199
<v Speaker 3>how do we get there? And we have let ourselves

731
00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:00.159
<v Speaker 3>be kicked kick We walk around wearing the kick me

732
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:05.119
<v Speaker 3>sign on our back, and the left says, happy to

733
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:09.920
<v Speaker 3>do so. Trump the last thing, Steve, you said it yourself.

734
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:16.519
<v Speaker 3>Trump is successful because either because of resentment over the

735
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:18.760
<v Speaker 3>way he was treated. I don't know what it is.

736
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:22.079
<v Speaker 3>I don't know how much of this he gets. I

737
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 3>read John's book and I still can't tell you how

738
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:26.239
<v Speaker 3>much of it Trump gets and how much of it's

739
00:41:26.360 --> 00:41:31.360
<v Speaker 3>just instinct, But he gets it one way or another,

740
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:33.960
<v Speaker 3>and ways that no other conservatives do.

741
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, well, it was, it was. John Gabriel of Ricochet

742
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:39.800
<v Speaker 1>had a great tweet about this yesterday today. He said

743
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Mitt Romney tried being the gentleman, the left called him

744
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:45.320
<v Speaker 1>a Nazi. You know that's all you need to.

745
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Know, right, Okay, But do you guys worry it? It's

746
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:52.639
<v Speaker 2>like my worry with the last worry again, John, Yeah.

747
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, in a liberal society, do you

748
00:41:54.880 --> 00:41:57.800
<v Speaker 2>want the government, And of course the left has been

749
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:59.800
<v Speaker 2>doing it, but do you want the government when we're

750
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.559
<v Speaker 2>in charge to be you start nakedly advancing certain moral

751
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.639
<v Speaker 2>and cultural views.

752
00:42:05.719 --> 00:42:11.360
<v Speaker 3>This way, I'm happy if they'll just advanced constitutional views,

753
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:17.960
<v Speaker 3>and that to me partially answers your objection, John, if

754
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 3>I make any sense to you, do I necessarily want

755
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.360
<v Speaker 3>the government advancing my Catholicism and the things I believe

756
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:31.719
<v Speaker 3>in as a Catholic. No? Do I want them advancing

757
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.119
<v Speaker 3>the idea that a man is a man and a

758
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:36.679
<v Speaker 3>woman as a woman, and that children shouldn't be turned

759
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.719
<v Speaker 3>into some freaks of nature? Absolutely?

760
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, Yeah, John, I mean, the way you phrase

761
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>it in the abstract, then it's hard to escape answering no,

762
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.199
<v Speaker 1>you don't want the government doing that. However, when do

763
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:52.000
<v Speaker 1>you break it down, as Lucretia just did in a

764
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:56.840
<v Speaker 1>specific instances where public opinion is overwhelmingly against what the

765
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:00.320
<v Speaker 1>left is doing, then to use force against them, I'll

766
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:03.119
<v Speaker 1>put it as bluntly as possible, is to defend democracy

767
00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 1>and to defend the rule of the people against the

768
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 1>people who want to rule over us without our consent

769
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 1>and shut things down our throat. You know, I've been

770
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.199
<v Speaker 1>radicalized on this. I did not talk this way ten

771
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:17.840
<v Speaker 1>years ago. But I'm so disgusted with things that partly

772
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:21.119
<v Speaker 1>is Lucretia's baleful influence on me after all these years,

773
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:25.000
<v Speaker 1>finally breaking through. But so that's why I think, you know,

774
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:30.599
<v Speaker 1>we again, we've reached the point where it's become necessary skeptical.

775
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:35.079
<v Speaker 3>Well, we just bring up the sort of the crucible

776
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:38.239
<v Speaker 3>of all this. So we know that who was Van

777
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Holland from Maryland? Right, Christian Holland decides to go down

778
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.320
<v Speaker 3>and he asks and asked and asked, and he finally

779
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:48.800
<v Speaker 3>let him into the prison, and he has Margarita's or

780
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:54.519
<v Speaker 3>Mihido's or something with that scum bag, gang banger, wife beater,

781
00:43:55.639 --> 00:44:02.119
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. Okay, they're desperately trying to make this argument,

782
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:06.280
<v Speaker 3>and they may succeed because the problem is, here's what

783
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.159
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna say about it. Every time I turn around,

784
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:13.119
<v Speaker 3>a conservative is waffling on this point. This is their argument.

785
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:18.360
<v Speaker 3>Sure Trump won on illegal immigration, but he can't go

786
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:24.960
<v Speaker 3>around deporting murderous scumbag sex traffickers, child sex traffickers, et cetera,

787
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.880
<v Speaker 3>et cetera without due process because he does that, and

788
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:29.440
<v Speaker 3>the next thing they're gonna do is come for you.

789
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.960
<v Speaker 3>It's a powerful argument, the thin end of the wedge,

790
00:44:33.079 --> 00:44:35.960
<v Speaker 3>camel under the tent, camel's nose under the tent, whatever

791
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:40.159
<v Speaker 3>stupid analogy you want to put there. But my point

792
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.840
<v Speaker 3>is this, we cannot give into that nonsense. We need

793
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:49.360
<v Speaker 3>to talk about why it is Americans can choose to

794
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:53.760
<v Speaker 3>remove people like that from their country. They don't deserve

795
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.039
<v Speaker 3>due process and it is not the same as doing

796
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:01.360
<v Speaker 3>that same thing to Americans. And just a little aside,

797
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:06.320
<v Speaker 3>those same people screaming about poor Ms three, gang banger

798
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 3>wife beater said not a word when members of the

799
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.840
<v Speaker 3>DOJ showed up with a swat team at Roger Stone's house,

800
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:21.440
<v Speaker 3>at that pastor's house. At one last story, Steve, I

801
00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:23.880
<v Speaker 3>don't think you weren't with me. I got pulled aside

802
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.519
<v Speaker 3>at a conference we were at by a gentleman because

803
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:31.639
<v Speaker 3>you and I had been talking about January sixth, and

804
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:33.760
<v Speaker 3>he pulled me aside. He says, I don't want anybody

805
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:36.880
<v Speaker 3>to know this, but I was at January sixth, and

806
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:43.639
<v Speaker 3>I'm afraid every day that someone is going to recognize

807
00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:45.519
<v Speaker 3>me and they're going to show up at my house

808
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:47.880
<v Speaker 3>and they're going to take me away and put me

809
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:50.599
<v Speaker 3>in solitary, and I won't hear from my family, etc.

810
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Where were those those despicable, hypocritical, hypocritical right wing, supposed

811
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:03.000
<v Speaker 3>right wing conservatives when that was happening. Shut up, go away,

812
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Send every MS three thirteen, gang Bang or anyone who

813
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.639
<v Speaker 3>might be affiliated.

814
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:11.320
<v Speaker 2>Without any judicial hearing, due process, just pick them up

815
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.679
<v Speaker 2>and send them none. Well, that's on constitutional No.

816
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:17.119
<v Speaker 3>It's not. The Constitution doesn't. I don't care what the

817
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:19.920
<v Speaker 3>Supreme Court is. It doesn't protect people who are not citizens.

818
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:22.679
<v Speaker 2>It is a package. It says due process applies to

819
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:26.440
<v Speaker 2>persons not citizens in the constitutional text that we were

820
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:27.280
<v Speaker 2>just reading together.

821
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I guess due processes. You come to our

822
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.880
<v Speaker 3>country as an illegal alien, you're out. That's my due process.

823
00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:36.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So Executive branch just gets to do it without

824
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.000
<v Speaker 2>any judicial review at all.

825
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:43.440
<v Speaker 3>Well, a real American citizen, then due process is okay

826
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.559
<v Speaker 3>with me. They don't care about due process. Don't give

827
00:46:46.639 --> 00:46:49.079
<v Speaker 3>me that they didn't care about due process for the

828
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:50.639
<v Speaker 3>January sixth protests.

829
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:52.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, they all did get presented to a judge and

830
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 2>had a trial. That's due process, just like the way

831
00:46:56.199 --> 00:46:56.519
<v Speaker 2>many of.

832
00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Them spent months in solitary confinement before they even saw

833
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:01.840
<v Speaker 3>a corrupt to Washington DC judge.

834
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 2>So when they get through process, it doesn't count because

835
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 2>they're all corrupt judges anyway.

836
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:10.159
<v Speaker 3>In Washington, DC, they are all right, well, this.

837
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Is a good time to take a break when we're

838
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:16.719
<v Speaker 2>going down the conspiracy theory wormhole, and we will be

839
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:18.880
<v Speaker 2>right back and then take up the two hundred and

840
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 2>fiftieth anniversary of Lexington and Conquered, where I have to say,

841
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:25.760
<v Speaker 2>in my view, the colonists actually thought very much the

842
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Speaker 2>way that Lucretia does. I was just accusing Lucretia of

843
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.039
<v Speaker 2>being conspiracy theorists. But I don't mean that in a

844
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:39.480
<v Speaker 2>bad way, because I would say that our revolutionary forefathers

845
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:42.440
<v Speaker 2>were conspiracy theorists. So let me put it to you, guys.

846
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Let's not talk about Lexington and conquered specifically. But the

847
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.800
<v Speaker 2>question I always like to ask is why did we

848
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 2>have a revolution at all? So if you go back

849
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:55.760
<v Speaker 2>and look, I think objectively at the situation of the

850
00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:01.079
<v Speaker 2>colonists in the seventeen seventies seventeen sixties, they are already

851
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:06.320
<v Speaker 2>some of the freest, wealthiest, equal people on the face

852
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 2>of the planet. Now, they don't want to pay taxes,

853
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:13.880
<v Speaker 2>they don't like the exertion of parliamentary supremacy over their legislatures.

854
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.119
<v Speaker 2>But they had been living, you know what's called under

855
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 2>a policy but non neglect, where they had basically been

856
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:25.000
<v Speaker 2>self governing for over one hundred years, and the one

857
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:29.679
<v Speaker 2>most important source of wealth in Old Europe, in fact,

858
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.159
<v Speaker 2>in the rest of the world was plentiful and cheap.

859
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:32.800
<v Speaker 1>I e.

860
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:39.960
<v Speaker 2>Land. In America, you had no aristocracy. You had I think,

861
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:44.719
<v Speaker 2>a society that was I would say, freer and wealthier

862
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:48.119
<v Speaker 2>and more equal than any other society in the history

863
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:51.440
<v Speaker 2>of mankind. Up to that point. So why have a

864
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:54.440
<v Speaker 2>revolution at all? Think about how great things would have

865
00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:01.079
<v Speaker 2>been if America had stayed part of the British Empire. John,

866
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:03.760
<v Speaker 2>there's there's my question.

867
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Indeed, you accuse us of being monarchist. John, Now the

868
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:10.400
<v Speaker 1>shoes on the other foot, I want to say, Lucretia,

869
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:13.639
<v Speaker 1>who wants to tell him? Is that meme goes? Look? John,

870
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:16.239
<v Speaker 1>I know that we spend way too much of our time.

871
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 1>We conservatives are re expire monsters, especially looking at the second,

872
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.400
<v Speaker 1>first and second paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence. But

873
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:25.599
<v Speaker 1>the answer to your question is, in all the specific

874
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.280
<v Speaker 1>indictments of the king, very little witch had to do

875
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.119
<v Speaker 1>with taxation. It wasn't a tax revolt. It was a

876
00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:34.159
<v Speaker 1>revolt against the erosion of self government. Right, All the

877
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.679
<v Speaker 1>indictments of really a parliament that said the king. But

878
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.840
<v Speaker 1>that was a clever rhetorical trick that they played. But

879
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:43.199
<v Speaker 1>the substance of it was, you know, we're being tyrannized

880
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:45.440
<v Speaker 1>step by step by step, and that has to stop.

881
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:47.599
<v Speaker 1>That's why I have a resolution. It was not going

882
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:51.840
<v Speaker 1>to change without a forceful rebuke. And here, just to

883
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:56.400
<v Speaker 1>just to annoy Lucretius slightly, you know Edmund Burke sympathized

884
00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:58.760
<v Speaker 1>with the grievances of the colonists, and for that he

885
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:01.679
<v Speaker 1>was nearly expelled from the House of Commons for expressing

886
00:50:02.199 --> 00:50:03.639
<v Speaker 1>sympathy with our point of view.

887
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:07.440
<v Speaker 3>Whatever you said that before, I'm unimpressed.

888
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Take away, I mean the British. I mean undeniably the

889
00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 2>British made several errors and how to handle the colonies, errors,

890
00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:17.960
<v Speaker 2>mistakes and mistakes of part. They were too harsh on

891
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:20.880
<v Speaker 2>the colonies. They didn't certainly have to send troops right

892
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.119
<v Speaker 2>until even after Lexington and conquered. There are you know,

893
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Americans trying to heal the breach? Why why did the

894
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:32.000
<v Speaker 2>revolution occur just because of parliamentary supremacy.

895
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:36.119
<v Speaker 1>Of the Romans? Ever done for us? Argument from your

896
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:38.280
<v Speaker 1>John is that what we're getting the Romans.

897
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:43.599
<v Speaker 3>Then into a serious conversation for a moment. Mind you.

898
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:45.639
<v Speaker 3>First of all, what it says in the Declaration of

899
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.880
<v Speaker 3>Independence that prudence indeed will dictate that government's long established

900
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:54.079
<v Speaker 3>should not be changed for light and transient causes. And

901
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:57.760
<v Speaker 3>all experience has shown that mankind is disposed to suffer

902
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:00.880
<v Speaker 3>while evils are sufferable to write the forms to which

903
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:06.280
<v Speaker 3>they are. They've become accustomed. Why because engaging in a

904
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:11.280
<v Speaker 3>revolution against the regime and power puts you back into

905
00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 3>the state of nature. And what we know from Hobbs,

906
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:17.760
<v Speaker 3>your favorite John, and from Lacke, but from Hobbes, the

907
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:21.559
<v Speaker 3>state of nature life is solitary, poor, Nazi, British and short.

908
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:26.199
<v Speaker 3>Nobody wants to live there. Okay, but prudence dictates that,

909
00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:30.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, you should think about this. But Jefferson goes on,

910
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:33.800
<v Speaker 3>and this is when a long chain of abuses evincing,

911
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:38.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, basically absolute tyranny. Okay, you could quibble. I

912
00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:41.920
<v Speaker 3>get that, you can quibble with whether or not in

913
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:48.679
<v Speaker 3>the long history of humankind what the colonists were experiencing

914
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.719
<v Speaker 3>was indeed absolute tyranny. You could quibble. And let me

915
00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 3>just point out not part of my soliloquy here, but

916
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:59.360
<v Speaker 3>the king owned all the land as long as they

917
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:01.800
<v Speaker 3>were colonists. But we'll leave that one aside for another day.

918
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:04.559
<v Speaker 3>The other thing I want you to remind you of

919
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:11.760
<v Speaker 3>is Hamilton's admonition in Federalist Number one that it is

920
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.440
<v Speaker 3>up to the people of the American people to decide

921
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:19.360
<v Speaker 3>the important question whether societies and men are really capable

922
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.719
<v Speaker 3>or not of establishing good government based upon reflection and choice,

923
00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:26.800
<v Speaker 3>or whether they are forever destined to depend for their

924
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:31.840
<v Speaker 3>political constitutions upon accident, force, and whatever we do, he says, well,

925
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:33.239
<v Speaker 3>decide it for all of mankind.

926
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Right.

927
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:38.719
<v Speaker 3>There's two really important points there. One, you don't you

928
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:41.400
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't have a revolution every time you don't like something

929
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:47.440
<v Speaker 3>that happened. Prudence dictates whether or not you should exercise

930
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:51.440
<v Speaker 3>what is your natural right to revolution? And there are

931
00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:54.079
<v Speaker 3>several elements to prudence, but one of them is you

932
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.320
<v Speaker 3>can can you affect this revolution? Can you bring about

933
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.760
<v Speaker 3>what Hamilton said we needed to bring about with this

934
00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:04.679
<v Speaker 3>new constitution, which is a government based upon reflection and

935
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:08.760
<v Speaker 3>choice that protects the rights of people, etc. Etc. That's

936
00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:13.199
<v Speaker 3>why Lexington and conquered, and then the subsequent revolution. The

937
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:16.280
<v Speaker 3>Declaration of Independence makes sense because in fact, the American

938
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:22.800
<v Speaker 3>colonists were disciples of Locke, disciples of the notion of

939
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:25.760
<v Speaker 3>natural right, the disciples of the notion of social contract,

940
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:28.760
<v Speaker 3>disciples of the notion of the sovereignty belongs to the people.

941
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:36.559
<v Speaker 3>Jefferson even argued that in the Summary address. But they decided,

942
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:40.400
<v Speaker 3>yes we can do it, Yes we can actually form

943
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.800
<v Speaker 3>this government based upon reflection and choice because of the

944
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:48.199
<v Speaker 3>unique circumstances of the American experience, exactly as you described them, John,

945
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:53.519
<v Speaker 3>they already had the habits of self government. They already

946
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:57.360
<v Speaker 3>had the habits of understanding the difference between liberty and

947
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.280
<v Speaker 3>license and all those other things that we've seen. Sequent

948
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:05.000
<v Speaker 3>attempts to establish some kind of constitutional government fail miserably

949
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.880
<v Speaker 3>because they don't have those habits. So that was a

950
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:12.519
<v Speaker 3>unique time. I don't know if I since it's Easter weekend,

951
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:15.440
<v Speaker 3>I might even go so far as to say that

952
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:21.000
<v Speaker 3>perhaps it was providential that at that moment, at that time,

953
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:25.320
<v Speaker 3>a people well versed in their rights in their own

954
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:31.400
<v Speaker 3>sovereignty were able capable of affecting a revolution and imposing

955
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:35.880
<v Speaker 3>a new government upon themselves, likely to affect their safety

956
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:40.440
<v Speaker 3>and happiness. But perhaps I do believe that that maybe

957
00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:45.480
<v Speaker 3>there was some providential good fortune blessing the Americas at

958
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:48.719
<v Speaker 3>that time, and continuing even despite all of our complaints

959
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.079
<v Speaker 3>to bless the United States today.

960
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:55.239
<v Speaker 2>Linda's running for office.

961
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:01.039
<v Speaker 1>Elect me with that, I you know, I mean, we

962
00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:03.440
<v Speaker 1>don't have a live audience, but if there were, a

963
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:05.719
<v Speaker 1>stillness would fall over the room. At this point. That

964
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:08.280
<v Speaker 1>was really great Are you kidding?

965
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:13.599
<v Speaker 2>I fell asleep. Oh so that's a perfect time, I

966
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:15.159
<v Speaker 2>think to take a break. We're nearing the end of

967
00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:18.159
<v Speaker 2>the show. Will take one more commercial break before we

968
00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:24.280
<v Speaker 2>hear from Lucretia about the Babylon be headlines. And then Steve,

969
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm told, has a new sign off for us, and

970
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:37.239
<v Speaker 2>we're back at the end of Lucretia's patriotic soliloquy, far

971
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:39.800
<v Speaker 2>better than anything that ever appeared in Shakespeare. I am

972
00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:45.559
<v Speaker 2>sure we are now demanding that she conclude with Babylon

973
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:47.360
<v Speaker 2>b headliness.

974
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:49.960
<v Speaker 3>There's so many you guys will just have to say,

975
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:54.039
<v Speaker 3>shut up, Lucretia and you're done. Okay, So first I'm

976
00:55:54.079 --> 00:55:56.639
<v Speaker 3>going to go with all the ones we've talked about today,

977
00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:00.440
<v Speaker 3>and that on the first one, Harvard confident it can

978
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:04.119
<v Speaker 3>harass it's Jewish students even without Trump's federal funding.

979
00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:08.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I should laugh at that, it's true.

980
00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:17.840
<v Speaker 3>But okay, liberals warn enforcing immigration law is a slippery,

981
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:24.400
<v Speaker 3>slippery slope that may lead to enforcing other laws. That

982
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:26.920
<v Speaker 3>was kind of my point. You remember that it was

983
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:31.039
<v Speaker 3>a while ago, but okay. China retaliates against US tariffs

984
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:35.119
<v Speaker 3>by stopping payments to Congress I know, Steve, you some

985
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.280
<v Speaker 3>of these Steve, I saw you had in your substack.

986
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:39.840
<v Speaker 3>But I'm not sure everybody's reading your substecks, so forgive

987
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:45.400
<v Speaker 3>me if I'm repeating them. Okay, Trump summons Elon Musk

988
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:50.159
<v Speaker 3>to Oval office to help them open a PDF. Sometimes

989
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:51.840
<v Speaker 3>I wish I had Elon Musk to help me with

990
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:52.280
<v Speaker 3>that too.

991
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

992
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:57.280
<v Speaker 3>You know, Trump reveals he took which Harry Potter house?

993
00:56:57.320 --> 00:57:00.880
<v Speaker 3>Are you in quiz? And he's a gryffindor I heard

994
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:01.519
<v Speaker 3>him talk about.

995
00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't get it.

996
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:05.599
<v Speaker 1>No, I haven't heard that one, but I'm sure some

997
00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:06.360
<v Speaker 1>listeners know this.

998
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:11.559
<v Speaker 3>So oh god, you guys, I know you saw the

999
00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:17.239
<v Speaker 3>the Taylor Lawrence thing about. Uh, we didn't discuss it.

1000
00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:18.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't know who that is.

1001
00:57:18.360 --> 00:57:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Who's Taylor Laurence was washing a post.

1002
00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:23.119
<v Speaker 1>She was this whacko at the Washington Post who they fired,

1003
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:25.000
<v Speaker 1>I think, and they fired.

1004
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:31.079
<v Speaker 3>And she's the Luigi Mangon she's a moral Yeah, he's

1005
00:57:31.159 --> 00:57:31.639
<v Speaker 3>just awful.

1006
00:57:31.719 --> 00:57:35.320
<v Speaker 1>It was just a hero, and right on and on

1007
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:35.679
<v Speaker 1>and on.

1008
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:41.119
<v Speaker 3>So terrified Luigi MANGIONI files restraining order against Taylor Lawrence.

1009
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:45.280
<v Speaker 1>That makes some sense, right, yeah.

1010
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:52.079
<v Speaker 3>Concentrated excuse me, concentration camp prisoners concerned China being bullied

1011
00:57:52.119 --> 00:58:00.079
<v Speaker 3>by America. Right, okay, because it's Eastern.

1012
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Happy Easter, my friends. I hope all my.

1013
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:08.119
<v Speaker 3>Good Jewish friends had a lovely passover. Donkey entering Jerusalem,

1014
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:16.000
<v Speaker 3>glad to be finally getting recognition he deserves. You gotta

1015
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:18.239
<v Speaker 3>love those guys. I'm sorry, you just gotta love them.

1016
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:23.000
<v Speaker 2>You're sure, I'm done, Steve oh Well, you got anything

1017
00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:27.079
<v Speaker 2>for us, But let me preface it with always drink

1018
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:29.360
<v Speaker 2>your whiskey, neat and Steve.

1019
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:32.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, courtesy of AI, I have a whole lot of

1020
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:35.880
<v Speaker 1>song lyrics for three Whiskey Happy Hour, and here's the

1021
00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:37.360
<v Speaker 1>one I'm going to give you this week as an

1022
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:41.440
<v Speaker 1>ending three Whiskey Happy Hour, past and present, twist and tower,

1023
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.800
<v Speaker 1>toast to time, the fleeting power of the three Whiskey

1024
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:47.519
<v Speaker 1>Happy Hour. Bye bye, everybody, see you next week.

1025
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:49.599
<v Speaker 3>Happy everyone, Bye.

1026
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Ricochet joined the conversation