1
00:00:05,719 --> 00:00:09,199
Speaker 1: Then there's the screaming man, so not the screaming implucky.

2
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's going on in pluckly Man.

3
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:21,039
Speaker 1: And this is a documented accident that happened the brickworks

4
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,800
in Pluckley, which was so when they were excavating clay

5
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,519
manually as they did, and this was eighteen ninety nine

6
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:35,359
where Richard Brichland, unfortunately was a laborer who was crushed

7
00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:37,759
and killed by a collapsing bank of clay.

8
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 3: Infinite complete. People went to and broad the earth about

9
00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:47,320
their little affairs, serene and the assurance of their dominion

10
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,600
over this more binning fragment of solar dripwood which by

11
00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:55,240
chance or design man has inherited out of the dark

12
00:00:55,439 --> 00:00:57,320
mystery of the time and repeat.

13
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,599
Speaker 2: On this episode of Into the Fray. I welcome Luke

14
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,159
Phillips back on with me finally, and we are going

15
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,640
to be talking about, of course, like we usually do,

16
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,280
the Phantom and you can't see me, but I'm doing

17
00:01:40,359 --> 00:01:43,040
air quotes right now for anyone on YouTube they can

18
00:01:43,079 --> 00:01:46,680
see us and on Patreon, but Phantom, black cats or

19
00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:51,560
big cats, and we will talk big floods and hauntings

20
00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,599
this time, because let's face it, Luke is across the pond,

21
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,400
and you have some very haunted locations over there, which

22
00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:01,079
you have mentioned to me. You are actually live very

23
00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:05,920
near a couple of these. So his other visits to

24
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,800
itf are ninety two and four thirty one, and I

25
00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:14,879
titled those the title of his fictional books that are

26
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,719
of course based on actual events like people seeing big

27
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,879
cats and events like people seeing bigfoot Daughters of the Darkness,

28
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,800
and then four thirty one was Rogue, ninety two was

29
00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:31,000
Daughters of the Darkness. So can you talk a little

30
00:02:31,039 --> 00:02:34,919
bit about before we dive in your books and where

31
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,120
your love of such things came from enough to write

32
00:02:38,159 --> 00:02:42,759
fictional works about such subjects.

33
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 1: So I think I've always been slightly fascinated by the weird,

34
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,240
wonderful side of or the dark side of Nature's actually

35
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:57,719
just a crowbar or style Wars references. But so, I mean,

36
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,680
we went my mum Isish and when we were kids,

37
00:03:01,719 --> 00:03:05,639
we spent a lot of time up in Scotland, particularly

38
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,479
in and around Lockness, which of course has this, you know,

39
00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:14,080
alluring monster mystery attached to it, and almost everybody you

40
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,520
speak to you up there, they've all got a monster

41
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:21,159
citing story. You can't move you know, for nessy sort

42
00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:23,759
of plushies and you know those sort of things.

43
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:23,960
Speaker 2: You know.

44
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,879
Speaker 1: So I was kind of immersed in it from a

45
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,520
very early age, you know that, you know, monsters were

46
00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:34,319
kind of there when I was growing up. I think

47
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,560
when I started really taking it seriously was when I

48
00:03:37,639 --> 00:03:41,400
was at university. I went to Liverpool John Moores University, which,

49
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,879
as the name implies, is in Liverpool, which is in

50
00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:52,400
the northeast of England, sorry northwest, and it was I

51
00:03:52,439 --> 00:03:57,599
think it was my first lecture where they were talking

52
00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:01,919
about sort of myths, legends and those kinds of things,

53
00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:08,840
and of course, the famous Sir Peter Scott acronym for

54
00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:14,360
you know, nessis rob bot Trix. You know, the scientific

55
00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:17,759
name for the monster came up, as well as other

56
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,480
things like the Surrey puma and things like that. Now,

57
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,120
I'm know anyone who's interested in these things will know that,

58
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,040
you know, Peter Scott's sort of you know, Latin name

59
00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,879
actually is an acronym for you know, for monster hoax

60
00:04:33,959 --> 00:04:37,959
by Sir Peter s. So yeah, yeah, I think he

61
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,000
was having a bit of fun with us, but unfortunately

62
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,399
it did plant that seed that perhaps you know, scientists,

63
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,439
you know, were taking these things really seriously, so I

64
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,879
really had you know a sort of from then on

65
00:04:55,959 --> 00:05:00,040
in we started looking into the sort of the the

66
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,959
the history the sightings around us. I was also really

67
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,160
lucky in that one of my professors was one of

68
00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:11,680
the prominent sort of leading authorities in big cat evolution,

69
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,120
so I was really lucky to sort of study under him,

70
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,560
get his books, you know, and sort of really sort

71
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,560
of then, uh, you know, sort of looking to the

72
00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,439
subject at such a level that we're you know, really

73
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,560
really you know, proper rabbit hole stuff, you know, so

74
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,639
that I could get really into it. But I think,

75
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,319
you know, I've always been a bit of a horror

76
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,160
fan as well. You know, I grew I think I

77
00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:47,279
was exposed to the sanity, shlock, horror, snow beast to

78
00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:52,160
far too early and watched that, you know, I think

79
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:57,920
I saw either Knight of the Demon or Creature from

80
00:05:57,959 --> 00:06:01,480
back Lake, like again, probably far too young, and was

81
00:06:01,519 --> 00:06:04,000
just hooked, just thought it was the best thing ever.

82
00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:09,560
And then you know, I've luckily been lucky enough to

83
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:15,279
travel being too the States, and yeah, I had an experience,

84
00:06:15,319 --> 00:06:19,000
shall we say, a campground that you know, sort of

85
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,360
really did propel me into sort of the big foot

86
00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:24,839
side as well. So it's been a long winded and

87
00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,279
sort of like you know, sort of you know, multi

88
00:06:27,319 --> 00:06:32,680
faceted adventure so far. But yeah, it's it's it's it's yeah.

89
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,879
So far, so good and absolutely no signs of stopping.

90
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,000
Speaker 2: So did they talk about university? I mean, you were

91
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,199
in Liverpool. Did they talk about the time slips?

92
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:44,399
Speaker 4: Then?

93
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,120
Speaker 1: No, so we didn't. We didn't then. But again I'm wondering,

94
00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,439
I'll you, I'm so, I was at university in the

95
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,040
in the nineties, so I don't know how much of

96
00:06:58,079 --> 00:07:00,639
it would have been spoken about. The Internet was still

97
00:07:00,639 --> 00:07:03,920
read if you knew, you know, so, so I don't

98
00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:07,240
know how much access we actually had to those to

99
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,600
that kind of information. Now. I imagine if you go to

100
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,600
Liverpool now and I haven't been for a long time,

101
00:07:12,439 --> 00:07:17,000
but I wonder. I imagine it's probably much more spoken about.

102
00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:21,319
More knows does this. They'll almost certainly be in one

103
00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:23,399
of the museums. There'll be something about it, you know,

104
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:24,279
that kind of thing.

105
00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:28,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, I wonder if they do time slip tours

106
00:07:28,199 --> 00:07:31,040
and things like that there, because some places embrace it.

107
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely is. I would have thought they did I

108
00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,399
mean if it's anything speA Key TV THEND you Yeah, yeah,

109
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:39,920
there'll be there'll be a tour.

110
00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:42,199
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh I love stuff like that. Well, how

111
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,480
wonderful that I'm sure that you brought that up before

112
00:07:44,519 --> 00:07:47,480
that at university you studied under that gentleman that I

113
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,040
knew so much about big cats. But it's been a

114
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,199
while since we've actually covered your background and things, so

115
00:07:53,279 --> 00:07:54,879
I I forgot about that.

116
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,439
Speaker 1: I've got to book. I'll send you the details because

117
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,199
I'm struggling from member his name right now. Yeah, they're awesome,

118
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,040
The Joy of Age. But I'll send you some links

119
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,560
to the book he wrote, which is about the evolution

120
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,040
of the big cats, which is excellent, and that includes,

121
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,079
you know, things like the saber teefs, you know, so

122
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:21,399
in new case European sabertys like Homotherian obviously, the three

123
00:08:21,439 --> 00:08:25,480
different species of Smilodn who dominated the Americas. You know,

124
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,759
cats known as the Dirktieve cats. Yeah, all of those

125
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,879
sort of things which are much more ancient versions of

126
00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:36,279
cats and they're not really closely related to modern cats.

127
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,000
But but yeah, there is that linkage there and it's

128
00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:42,399
really really fascinating reading. So I'll send that to you afterwards.

129
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 2: So what was his opinion then on things like the

130
00:08:46,279 --> 00:08:49,399
Beast of Bodman more and all of these big cat

131
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,559
sightings that have been going on for decades. What was

132
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:54,440
his opinion then?

133
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 1: So he was actually really open to well, he was

134
00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:01,840
open to some of it. Yeah, he was sort of

135
00:09:04,519 --> 00:09:07,080
to a certain extent, he was. So, Yeah, there were

136
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,720
sightings and things like that. So one of the things

137
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:15,559
that was really clear of one of the news stories

138
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,039
that was big in the nineties when I was there

139
00:09:18,799 --> 00:09:25,159
was helicopter police helicopter footage of a lynx walking along

140
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,679
a motorway and they were showing frmal footage of it,

141
00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:32,879
and it was very clear what it was. How it

142
00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:36,000
got there, whether it was an escapee or you know,

143
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,440
somebody had released it or something like that remains unknown.

144
00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:44,480
But the fact that they're actually here it was almost

145
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,840
undisputed because people were seeing them and those sort of things.

146
00:09:49,759 --> 00:09:53,720
The Sorry Puma was one of these well known cats,

147
00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,759
along with the Beast above Men say, the Beast of

148
00:09:55,759 --> 00:09:58,720
Bobbing is probably the most famous of the British big cats.

149
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:00,720
You know, it gets l able to the Beast of

150
00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:03,200
bod Men. But and you know, and it's you know,

151
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:09,399
turned up you know, in the sort of early I

152
00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:11,159
just think of the Beast of bod was I think

153
00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:14,279
it was sort of the nineties, yeah, and I think

154
00:10:14,279 --> 00:10:19,639
it's ninety three onwards. But that was a really famous

155
00:10:19,879 --> 00:10:25,840
case because the army were brought in, you know, farmers

156
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,240
were complaining. The local MP, who's now a lord in

157
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,679
the House of Lords, got involved. Yeah, so this was

158
00:10:32,799 --> 00:10:35,679
big national news and I think actually it ended up

159
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:40,840
being international news, you know, that there was this beast

160
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,399
of and it very quickly got romanticized into being this

161
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,679
black you know, black panther type you know, probably a

162
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,519
melanistic leopard, you know, a black panther type cot and

163
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,840
things like that. But actually there were multiple sightings across

164
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,240
sort of you know, the corn wall, and the description

165
00:11:02,519 --> 00:11:06,279
varied massively. So and there were two clear camps. One

166
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:12,679
was very much a beat a black you know, leopard

167
00:11:12,799 --> 00:11:15,519
type cat, and the other was very much a town

168
00:11:15,759 --> 00:11:20,000
colored cat. And they were describing a long tail and

169
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,440
sort of you know, you know, sort of a grayish

170
00:11:24,519 --> 00:11:27,360
belly and things like that. So they're clearly talking about

171
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,960
a mountain ion or a puma type cat, you know,

172
00:11:30,799 --> 00:11:34,519
and that those are the two you know, rough camps

173
00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:36,440
we have here in the UK, we tend to have

174
00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:40,399
the puma or the black leopards sort of those. You know,

175
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:47,039
That's what the majority of the descriptions fit. And obviously

176
00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:52,000
we were still at the university. We were still only

177
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,840
you know, twenty years after nineteen seventy six, which is

178
00:11:55,879 --> 00:11:59,639
when the Dangerous World Animals Act was introduced, which is

179
00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,320
when you had to have a license, you know, to

180
00:12:02,799 --> 00:12:07,480
have and house these animals. Before that, you could literally,

181
00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:11,080
you know, very famously go to Harod's and order your

182
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,879
lion cub or your black panther or you know that

183
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,759
would suit you, I mean a lot. And the thing

184
00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:22,120
is they weren't just animals purchased by the rich and famous.

185
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,200
They were animals purchased by scrap metal merchants. You know.

186
00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:30,399
They were used as guard animals. You know, there's a

187
00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:37,120
very famously I think the Beast of x Moore. You know,

188
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:41,200
there was a butcher who had a black cat and

189
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,240
a tan cat and kept them in the butcher's shop.

190
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,399
You know, has a bit of a spectacle and so on.

191
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:48,200
Speaker 4: Uh.

192
00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that story is that when he

193
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:55,679
got into potential trouble with the law. It's said that

194
00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,159
he released them onto xmore and then what happen and

195
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,240
was she started getting reported sightings of a black cat

196
00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:06,480
and attorney care and I think there was a researcher

197
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,840
there who actually confirmed he was finding footprints of both,

198
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,759
you know, you know, of these cats potentially traveling together.

199
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,080
So it was, yeah, there was there's all of this

200
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:24,080
sort of you know, evidence happening in the background that

201
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,960
was you know, was put it propelling this into the

202
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,080
public view. So I think it was much more. It

203
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:33,320
was still quite fash and new then, and people were

204
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,399
accepting it a lot more. But like I said, the

205
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,600
sorry puma had been reported from the seventies onwards, you know,

206
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,639
and you know, feliciting puma was caught in nineteen eighty

207
00:13:45,759 --> 00:13:48,919
up in Canic you know where my first book Shadow

208
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:53,159
Beast is based. In fact, it's based there for that reason,

209
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,639
you know, and forlicity is mentioned in the book. But yeah,

210
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,559
so we've got this sort of scattered history of them,

211
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:05,200
so I think for him it was clear that we're here.

212
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:07,399
I think for him it was very much a case

213
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,200
of these are animals that have been released. There's not

214
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,120
a breeding population, and you know they'll die off soon.

215
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,440
But you know, here we are. You know, we're now

216
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,360
fifty years down the line from the Dangerous Wild Animals Act,

217
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,720
and you know, I've just this morning released a blog

218
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,120
showing sort of some of the more recent sightings in

219
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:36,679
the UK. And you know there are sightings still happening today,

220
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:42,360
you know, regularly of different cats of different sizes, different shapes,

221
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:49,720
you know, different descriptions, different color variations. Species vary from

222
00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:54,960
everything from you know, jungle golden cats and jungle cats

223
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,679
right up to as I say, the melanistic letterards and

224
00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,960
the mountain lion.

225
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,799
Speaker 2: So I'm sure this wasn't the case, but maybe it

226
00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:08,320
was the Butcher's cats. Were they two males, two females.

227
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,919
Could it be possible they ended up being a breeding pair?

228
00:15:12,279 --> 00:15:15,039
Speaker 1: No, So I've tried to look into it, and it

229
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:21,000
does and there is no actual, definitive record of the

230
00:15:21,039 --> 00:15:27,799
animals he had. We know the town, but yeah, and

231
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,120
we know that it was Devon, uh and so, but

232
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,559
actually the actual there was obviously no licenses or anything

233
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,600
like that. There's nothing to track it back to what

234
00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:44,039
he had. So yeah, I would suspect that they weren't

235
00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:46,799
I would have, I would suspect that they weren't a

236
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:49,559
breeding pair, but also that they were probably both the

237
00:15:49,559 --> 00:15:54,240
same sex. And I think what would And this is

238
00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:59,519
pure conjecture, but I think for the most part in

239
00:15:59,559 --> 00:16:03,039
the UK, people were buying female animals because they were smaller,

240
00:16:03,919 --> 00:16:07,279
and the idea is that smaller animals were more manageable,

241
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,799
which I imagine most people found out that was not

242
00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:11,320
the case.

243
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 2: I know, they might be a little smaller, but it

244
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,679
doesn't make them manageable. My goodness. That's the wildest thing

245
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:20,639
about that. Yeah, and I had I sent you this

246
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,960
on Instagram, but you would of course already seen this

247
00:16:23,039 --> 00:16:25,399
because you keep track of this stuff. But this is

248
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,000
just last month and Dartmouth is a big black cat

249
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,120
video that a couple had captured on a golf course

250
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,559
and they said that, oh, we were in our dressing gown,

251
00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:38,279
so we couldn't jump off the porch of this hotel

252
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,559
whatever resort and go check it out closer. Probably good

253
00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:45,840
that they didn't, by the way, and that was fifty

254
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,279
So it's fifty miles from where the Beast of Bottom

255
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,840
and more was visually doing its business.

256
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's literally the next county I mean,

257
00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:02,919
I would really like to and I have tried to

258
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,839
sort of track in that I would really like to

259
00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:08,480
talk to them sort of personally. Because the videover is

260
00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:11,839
saken eating is of such poor quality. It's really hard

261
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,200
to see. I will go in, you know, I will

262
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,680
say the movement of the cat, and the head movement

263
00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:24,039
in particular, looks very domestic cat to me. But the

264
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,079
other thing to remember is that in a lot of

265
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,160
the rural areas we are, we have some we do

266
00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:33,799
have populations of feral cats. So there's big and a

267
00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:37,640
lot of the barn and farmyard cats, you know, they

268
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,400
live wild and things like that, and they can get

269
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,400
really big. Yeah, they can get a lot bigger than

270
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:48,799
a normal domestic But the way that that cat walks,

271
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,160
lifts its head up and drops it down, that's not

272
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,200
really characteristic of a big cat. It's it's much more

273
00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:59,079
characteristic of domestic It seems that it doesn't. The years

274
00:17:59,079 --> 00:18:01,799
are a little bit too low and the tower isn't

275
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,799
quite as long. But again, that video is such the

276
00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:08,359
one that's being circulated, and these is such core quality.

277
00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:11,799
I'd like to see the original just to get an idea.

278
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,559
Speaker 2: So that's the bummer is that. And even I can

279
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:17,680
say this for my own videos. We can see each

280
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,440
other perfectly well, it's perfectly clear. And then by the

281
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,680
time you export and then you upload and you upload

282
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,519
again and things just get potato quality. It just looks really,

283
00:18:28,559 --> 00:18:32,160
really bad because of compression issues. And I have to

284
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,319
say that it would be incredible for you to get

285
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,960
in touch with those folks also to find out exactly

286
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,440
where that thing was spotted, because you can't you can't

287
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,839
really tell how big it is compared to that Who

288
00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:47,559
knows how big that bush was next to it or

289
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,039
in any of these other things right for scale, it's

290
00:18:50,039 --> 00:18:50,720
hard to tell.

291
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:54,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there are there are some white blobs in

292
00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:59,599
the background, I suspect those as sheep. And if they

293
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,279
are sheep, then they don't seem to be bothered at

294
00:19:02,319 --> 00:19:06,359
all by that, you know, its presence, if they are

295
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,359
aware it's there, which again would suggest it's probably a

296
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,759
domestic So but yeah, but that said, they were obviously

297
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:19,000
very excited. They thought they were seeing something unusual. You know,

298
00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:22,680
they're from the UK, They're probably familiar with what a

299
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,359
domestic cat looks like. So yeah, I'm not going to

300
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,160
do that thing that a lot of people do and

301
00:19:28,279 --> 00:19:30,400
just dismiss the witness because.

302
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,880
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, you can't do that. But I mean

303
00:19:35,319 --> 00:19:37,480
I saw in the article. It was a coast to

304
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:41,200
coast am email that came through as a Timberaal article.

305
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,839
It's been covered on local news there too, I found.

306
00:19:43,839 --> 00:19:49,519
But once you start to get the at least they

307
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:51,279
took the video though, because a lot of people go,

308
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:53,920
why didn't you take a video? Well they did, and

309
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,000
granted it's not the greatest video, but she tried her best.

310
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,640
But she did say that she thought that it was

311
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,960
something strange and that she was quite They were quite

312
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,839
familiar with, as you say, the local wildlife and what's

313
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:08,119
supposed to be out there, and it looks like whoever

314
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,400
wrote the local article talk to a couple of different people,

315
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,480
including some kind of wildlife expert, and the wildlife expert said,

316
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,519
much like you, it kind of tends to lean more

317
00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:24,519
towards a large domestic cat versus something that the UK

318
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,279
says isn't out there walking around.

319
00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think I think there is a

320
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,920
good chance in it being a feral because the Pheraulhs

321
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,720
are big and they what they can. You know, big

322
00:20:33,759 --> 00:20:37,960
feral tom can be quite large, probably not far off

323
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,000
you know, a bobcat size for you guys, you know,

324
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,720
soyah and yeah, so that they can be big. And

325
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:52,160
there are so many fancy cat breeds now, particularly main

326
00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:59,559
coons and yeah, and savannah cats you know, they can

327
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,200
be really quite large and leggy, you know, so you know,

328
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,720
you don't know what's cross breeding and you know, things

329
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,480
like that. And that's the other thing as well, is

330
00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:13,839
there are plenty of other cats other than big cats

331
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,160
escaping and being released. You know, as I said, there

332
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:23,720
are recorded incidents of jungle cats fishing cats. Somebody even

333
00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:26,880
reported to jag Urundi, you know, not too long ago.

334
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,960
So yeah, and you know we know they're around because

335
00:21:32,839 --> 00:21:37,599
a wildlife rescue near me recently took in a jag

336
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,799
Urundi recovered from the illegal wildlife trade. So people, so

337
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,839
they are coming in, people are you know, there is

338
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,039
even for a redife rare cat like that, there are

339
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,000
people are trying to get hold of them. So none

340
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:55,039
of it should really be dismissed, you know.

341
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 2: So what kinds of things? And where is your blog?

342
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,720
Where can people find that blog you mentioned?

343
00:22:01,799 --> 00:22:08,079
Speaker 1: Yes, so it's on Beast Blackbeastsomoogiemen dot com perfect.

344
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So what are some of the other sightings that

345
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:13,119
you've come across lately that's gone on there?

346
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,839
Speaker 1: I mean there's a few. So there was so probably

347
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,599
the one that's really famous because it happened in a

348
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,799
couple of months ago and it was big in a

349
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:29,119
you know, because it revolved around a celebrity was again,

350
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,079
a black panther was seen in red from close proximity

351
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,960
to Ed Shearing's estate in Surrey. So Ed Sheeran, the

352
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,720
pop star, you know, so but yeah, he a black

353
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:47,519
panther was reported crossing a very popular local footpath onto farmland,

354
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,519
you know, which sort of neighbored Ed Sheerans. You know,

355
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,480
thirty I think it's thirty seven million pound in his house,

356
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,200
so yeah.

357
00:22:56,519 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 2: What a shack huh yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, well

358
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:02,440
London prices.

359
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: I think that's a two bedroom flat. That's true, that's true.

360
00:23:06,519 --> 00:23:12,279
Speaker 2: You're like, actually it might be, but.

361
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's yes, So that was that got the news

362
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:20,960
Bradford recently. But again a lot of these sightings are

363
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,279
just these glimpses that people get. So again there was

364
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,160
North Wales. There's been quite a few sightings in North

365
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,519
Wales recently. Again all sort of meeting the black leopard

366
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:42,440
kind of template. There was exciting of what they called

367
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,799
a dark colored cap, and but they particularly described the

368
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,960
long tail, which obviously leopards do have, but the way

369
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,400
they described it did make me think humor, and that

370
00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:59,279
came out of cornwall. So yeah, there's been that they are.

371
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,240
I think the thing that's frustrating about them is that

372
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:06,720
they do kind of all meet that sort of you know,

373
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:12,240
cryptozoological sort of you know, crossing the road glimpse sort

374
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,039
of style. You know, citing, there's there's there's you know,

375
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,319
these amazing bits of drama and you know, but actually

376
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,839
the facts are pretty thin, you know, which you would expect.

377
00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:27,480
But I am hoping that with the rise of dash

378
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:31,279
cans and things like that, you know, sooner or later

379
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,519
we'll get you know, really good quality proof. And it's

380
00:24:35,559 --> 00:24:40,680
worth pointing out that we're not talking about animals that

381
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:43,599
are just pure myth and legend anymore. You know. There

382
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,640
has been a scientific study by the Rural College of Agriculture,

383
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:54,160
you know, testing DNA taken from carcasses actually cuxons in

384
00:24:54,160 --> 00:25:01,039
Cumbria which is the Lake districtive but also recording toothpit

385
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:05,759
analysis against you know, carcasses and kills. And they've shown

386
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,519
that they're you know, it was released last year. They've

387
00:25:09,519 --> 00:25:12,759
got DNA evidence of leopards, you know. You know, so

388
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,400
there isn't there is no argument whether they're here or not.

389
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:20,200
You know, this isn't a mystery. You know, this isn't

390
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,519
a myth anymore. They are definitely here. There is absolutely

391
00:25:24,519 --> 00:25:28,039
a question about how they got here, how many they

392
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,640
might be, whether there's a breeding population. There's so many

393
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,839
things we don't know, but we do know they're here.

394
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,759
Speaker 2: Okay, you know I had to go here. What about

395
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,319
any big foot sightings?

396
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: Yes, so there are. And I know you had pool

397
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:48,880
best of on not too long ago and you and

398
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,519
I was grumbling at my into my earphones when he

399
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:55,920
said he didn't think there was any bigfoot here, because

400
00:25:56,319 --> 00:25:59,680
I'm not so sure. So I'm going to pay Devil's

401
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,880
advert to Paul and say I do think there is

402
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,240
enough habitat here in the UK, like there are a

403
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,039
huge Obviously we're not on parer with Alaska or you know,

404
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:13,240
British Columbia or anything like that, but there are still

405
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:19,720
huge aspects of Scotland, you know, the highlands, the Southwest,

406
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:24,880
you know that are really quite dense, very very forested.

407
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,160
You've also got to remember that very little land in

408
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,720
the UK is publicly accessible, you know, so much of it.

409
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:36,559
I think it's something like six percent of our land

410
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,119
is public accessible. The rest of it is private, you know,

411
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,480
so there's private game estates, private estates that go on

412
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,119
from you know, the Church, the State, you know, the royalty,

413
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,720
they you know, lords and ladies. They all own significant

414
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:58,400
chunks of land which recimply do not get the chance

415
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,599
to go on to or or access in any way.

416
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 2: Is that because of hunting, so that they can go

417
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:05,920
hunting on the land.

418
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean, it certainly used to be the case. I

419
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,559
think now a lot of it is just you know,

420
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,160
it's been passed down through time. But yeah, the hunting

421
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,359
estates are still very prominent, particularly in the highlands. You know,

422
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:19,720
if you want to go deer stalking, it's still quite

423
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,599
an elite you know. It's not like in the States

424
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,599
where you can go to the woods and you can

425
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,640
go hunting with your buddies and things like that. It's

426
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,920
still here. It's very elite. It's very expensive. You've got

427
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,880
to have the right clothing.

428
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:34,839
Speaker 2: And you know, you can't have.

429
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:39,079
Speaker 1: Last year's double rifle, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

430
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,559
that's sort of thing is a bit like that unfortunately. Yeah,

431
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:45,839
I mean there's plenty of there's plenty of farmers who

432
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,160
are armed and you know, guns are you know, aren't

433
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,480
as completely you know, absent here as you might think.

434
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,759
But it's mainly sort of you know, pest control farmers,

435
00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:00,200
that kind of thing, you know. But the hunt in

436
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,519
itself is still very much a pastime of the elite unfortunately,

437
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,920
you know. So yeah, but as I said, one of

438
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,400
the things to think about is red deer huge okay,

439
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,440
so closely related to help if you get in in

440
00:28:17,759 --> 00:28:24,200
the sense now there's over a million red deer in Scotland, okay,

441
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:27,960
so you know, and again you have to go and

442
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,000
find them. You have. It's not like you're you're sort

443
00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:32,480
of you know, you know, you know, sort of trying

444
00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,920
to get through herds of them, you know, as they

445
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,079
cross the road and things like that. They you know,

446
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,880
they spend a lot of their times high on the ridges.

447
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,319
They come down at night. You know. So if there's

448
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:46,480
a million very large animals you know that you don't

449
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,119
see every day in the highlands, you know, and it's

450
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,359
up to a million. I know that the figures are

451
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:55,880
a bit you know it sort of you're wild and free.

452
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,079
But but if there is a very small population of

453
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,960
you know, whether it's remnant you know, wood woes or

454
00:29:05,079 --> 00:29:07,759
you know, you know, sort of something like that, or

455
00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:10,240
a flesh and blood animal like a you know, that

456
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,920
we would we would say it was akin to a bigfoot.

457
00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:15,720
I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that there is

458
00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:18,799
some habitat for them, and they could. I mean, I

459
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,880
know people who have reported them in Scotland. They've they've

460
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,839
they've you know, when you look at some of the

461
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,279
witness testimonies, these people get very very upset. Now they

462
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:37,559
are a gift. They are either gifted actors or they've

463
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:43,359
experienced genuine trauma, you know. And again I find it

464
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,880
really hard to dismiss you know, that they those people

465
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,039
have seen something, because they've clearly experienced something and they've

466
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,880
you know, some people have never gone outside into the

467
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,160
woods again, you know, into their adult life. You know,

468
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,680
I find that, you know, I'd be very wary of

469
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,559
saying no to anything at this point, because you know,

470
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,680
these people are clearly having some kind of experience and

471
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,240
as I say, there's we know, there's a population of

472
00:30:13,519 --> 00:30:16,200
wild bar in the UK and the Forest of Dean

473
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,200
in Gloucestershire, there's a you know, which has been purely

474
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:26,319
fueled by escapees or animals that were released deliberately. Yeah,

475
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,440
and that population has popped up across Kent the southeast

476
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,359
where I am. There's that. As I say, they are

477
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:36,559
very very well established in the Forest of Dean, but

478
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,559
across the southwest as well, Devonshire, Cornwall. You know, the

479
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:44,200
beast of Bobbin's definitely got you know, pork is on

480
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:49,160
the menu for the beast involvement for sure, you know. Yeah,

481
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,559
So these are pretty large animals and you don't see

482
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,240
them often. So if there was a really tiny and

483
00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:59,880
I don't think you know, it's not we're housing hundreds

484
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,519
or thousands of big cats. And in the same way

485
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:06,519
we're not. I can't imagine we're housing hundreds or thousands

486
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:11,000
of bigfoot. But we do have some protected areas, we

487
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:14,440
do have some national parks, we do have some you know,

488
00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:20,000
pretty big expanses of forests and from woodlands where they

489
00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:24,240
could potentially be I mean again, similarly, in the US,

490
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:28,519
we have a lot of military veterans who just decide

491
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,799
they're going to go and live in the woods, you know,

492
00:31:31,839 --> 00:31:35,400
and you never see those people, but we know they're around,

493
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:40,200
you know. So yeah, I think there are big foot

494
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,319
sizings that do get reported, you know, and as I said,

495
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:47,039
Scotland is a real real place for them at the moment.

496
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:52,279
There's definitely stuff coming from from from Scotland. Again, somebody

497
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:57,039
I know were a report I looked at was a

498
00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:01,960
pair of hikers who retreated from land In not far

499
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,440
from Lockness, so in Vernesshi. Because they and again they

500
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,960
it's all the things that we hear, they felt they

501
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,720
were being watched. They had this sudden, you know, experience

502
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:18,799
of the feeling of dread uh and they had this

503
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,799
real urge to get out of the you know, to

504
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:25,519
get out there. Basically they heard you know, twig crunches

505
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,200
and tree cracks and things like that. They never actually

506
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:33,640
saw anything, but they were very unnerved. And again there

507
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,519
they're hikers. They know what deer moving. You know, most

508
00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:39,319
of us, if we see a deer, it's like oh great,

509
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,039
you know, oh wow deer, you know sort of it's

510
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:45,720
a joyful experience, you know. I do think it takes something.

511
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,359
You know, our DNA is. You know, there is that

512
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:55,759
biological instinctiveness which goes, this is something unusual, abnormal. You

513
00:32:55,839 --> 00:33:00,880
need to respond to this. You know that you know flight,

514
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,279
flight or freeze, you know that that sort of aspect.

515
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
And I think when that kicks in the lightly year

516
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,799
it is it's a predator or it's certainly something that

517
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:12,920
you don't encounter on a day to day. That's your

518
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,119
biology saying something's not right.

519
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,559
Speaker 2: All right, So before we move off of the cryptids,

520
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:20,799
and I realize that you can't really call the cats

521
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,920
a cryptid, not really of course, because they are being right,

522
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,960
you know what I mean. But you know, once you

523
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,680
start going into dog Man and Bigfoot, then there's a

524
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:33,640
little difference there. But okay, so before we go off there,

525
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,559
and I will put cats in here as well, out

526
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:40,200
of all the cryptids, would you rather see and I'll

527
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,599
just go off of the UK. I could put moth

528
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,079
Man all these other things in there, but you don't

529
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:45,920
have that there. But this is where you are, So

530
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:49,279
let's go off of cats. You can go Puttingness in

531
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,000
there from Scotland and Bigfoot out of I mean, or

532
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,880
out another one in that I haven't covered which one

533
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,319
would you like to see close enough and to where

534
00:33:57,359 --> 00:33:59,759
you know it was in a long enough sighting you

535
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:00,559
know what you saw.

536
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:06,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would really like I mean again,

537
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:11,280
I would if I could get It's really hard to

538
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,280
say because my default setting is always dog man and

539
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,760
I was like, I really want to see a dog

540
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,840
and just I want to know what on earth it is. Yeah, yeah,

541
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:27,360
but I think I had my an encounter with a

542
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,159
big cat crossing the road when in seven as you know,

543
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:32,000
many years ago.

544
00:34:32,599 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, would you want to see one? I mean really

545
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,119
close though, you know, and I know because I do

546
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,400
recall you had that sighting. But I'm like, I wonder

547
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,840
if you, like, if you were that couple you're like, oh,

548
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,679
I'm going to film that. Hey there's a big old

549
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,519
count of there and you you could jump off and go.

550
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:50,280
Not that I think that's smart. Again, not a good idea,

551
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,719
good thing they didn't, but you can go chase after

552
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,960
something and have that close encounter, you know, maybe, So Yeah,

553
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,119
would it be a cat again, then maybe a close encounter?

554
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 1: I think I I think it probably would, just because

555
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,639
I would. I did at the time when I saw mine,

556
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,760
you know, I did I just sat there and watched it.

557
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,920
I mean it only took seconds, you know, but to

558
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,000
have had a phone up or a camera or something

559
00:35:18,039 --> 00:35:21,679
like that would be it would have been great, I suppose,

560
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,039
But I would really I think I'm just open to

561
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:28,639
anything really as the honest again, I just want to

562
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,840
know because of that question that always comes up about

563
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,519
is it fashion, bud or is it something else. I

564
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,639
just want something that at least helps me go in

565
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:43,800
one direction or the other. That's what I'd like, you know.

566
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,119
So you know, so obviously cats leave footprints and things

567
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,239
like that, and I think there's enough physical evidence to

568
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,440
say that they're here. And when it comes to Bigfoot

569
00:35:55,599 --> 00:35:59,320
than Doug Man so for instance, you know, if it

570
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,320
come this you know dog Man Encounters podcast, he's just

571
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,760
had two lots of people from the UK in North

572
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,280
Wales give very detailed encounters with dog Maun. I would

573
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:14,840
I would very happily go and spend some time on

574
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,960
that farm and try and and try and document it.

575
00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 4: You know.

576
00:36:19,639 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: But after once you start going down that road and

577
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,599
this is where I, this is where U because I

578
00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:28,559
am I do have some skepticism. Is when people start saying,

579
00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:31,039
oh no, no, they wouldn't come out, you know, or

580
00:36:31,079 --> 00:36:32,880
you know, we don't want to disturb them, or we

581
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,559
don't want to document them. You know. That's when my

582
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,079
sort of you know, bullshit meters kind of goes off

583
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:42,639
a little bit, you know. But but I would again,

584
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:44,880
I would love I would love to see something like

585
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,559
that because it's something completely unexplained, you know, I would

586
00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:53,079
love to try and get some understanding of how it

587
00:36:53,159 --> 00:36:57,280
works biologically. You know, there's there's no biological precedent for

588
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,960
a dog, maund what you know, big Foot at least

589
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,639
we've got fossilized, you know, a family tree that suggests

590
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,280
what they are or what they could be, and there

591
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,440
is a biological precedent for them. We know there are

592
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,639
great apes, and we know that you know, some of

593
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:16,719
them are capable of walking up right, and we know,

594
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,480
you know, previous hominids you know, existed up to you know,

595
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:24,840
I think with now you know, twenty five to thirty

596
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,159
different you know hominids we now know of, so you know,

597
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:33,599
there's that biological precedent for them when it comes to

598
00:37:33,639 --> 00:37:36,280
the truly mysterious, you know, when it comes to that,

599
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:41,639
you know, Yeah, and I actually recently attended a lecture

600
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,159
on the history and mythology of were wolves, you know,

601
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,880
and we started talking about dog men at the end

602
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,079
because you know, I was interested in how but you

603
00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:55,760
know that, Yeah, being able to see something that you

604
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,719
know isn't you know that it just doesn't have that

605
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,679
doesn't fit into the normal world. I think that that's true.

606
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,599
That would be truly. I mean, I imagine I would

607
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:08,239
be terrified. I'm not gonna lie, you know, but it'd

608
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,119
be I think it would be great to see, just

609
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:12,239
so that I could take that question out of my mind.

610
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's not a lot of positive interactions with the

611
00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:20,039
dog man creature. So are you saying that on this

612
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:24,599
farmland that the folks are they have all these firsthand

613
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,519
encounters with them, they're seeing them, but they feel protective

614
00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:31,400
over them. They don't want to get them on film.

615
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,360
That that's easy to do anyway, but they don't want

616
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,760
people to come out to investigate because they're protected something.

617
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: I just think there's Yeah. I'm a dedicated to wildlife

618
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,519
naturalist and wildlife watcher. You know, I deliberately go out,

619
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,679
you know, most weekends as often as I can, I

620
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,199
go out and I spend time looking for wildlife documenting

621
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,119
it and things like that, I have to try quite

622
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:04,280
hard to find species that we know exist and are around. Yeah.

623
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,079
So you know, like I went out on Sunday looking

624
00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:11,239
for bar nows and it took me a lot of

625
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,280
time in an area that I know they are, a

626
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,280
lot of walking you know, cross marshal, yeah, to find them,

627
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,880
you know, and I live in an area where where

628
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,639
we know they are, and things like that, I think

629
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:29,880
once people start saying I've had more than your encounter,

630
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,639
you know. So like there is somebody in Cumbria who

631
00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:38,239
literally seems sounds like she can't walk out of her

632
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,760
front door about tripping over a big cat, but she's

633
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,320
got no evidence, you know. And that's where my frustration

634
00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:48,400
kicks in, is like, well, I'm sorry if this is

635
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,880
happening as often as you say it is. Invest in

636
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:56,960
the trail camera, you know, you know, you have you know,

637
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,639
a phone set up, you be ready for it kind

638
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:04,039
of thing. But and again I think when you know that,

639
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,719
like you know two different people but they're both friends

640
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,440
you know from North Wales who they've been documenting or

641
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:16,800
you know, uh, gone onto a podcast to discuss this,

642
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,199
these dogma encounters, if they're having them in encountering them

643
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:26,440
readily regularly. Again my my slight challenge, and I don't

644
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,760
really apologize for it would be great and great to

645
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:30,480
document it.

646
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,199
Speaker 2: You know, well, yes, but what are they what are

647
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,719
they saying? Why haven't did Vic ask them that, like, oh,

648
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,639
well we have people that we can send out to

649
00:40:39,679 --> 00:40:42,239
you to investigate and they can put on trill camps.

650
00:40:43,199 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 1: He didn't offer that. I mean I think he did

651
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,440
say what did What would you say to someone who says,

652
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,199
you know, you should have got your camera out and

653
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,519
things like that. Yeah, And I do understand, I mean

654
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,320
in that in that moment, you don't always think no,

655
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,480
you do not. I think yeah. I mean but if

656
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:07,039
it's plenty of sorry, plenty of encounters were gone, yeah yeah,

657
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:08,760
oh just enjoyed it, you know.

658
00:41:09,159 --> 00:41:12,119
Speaker 2: But if it's ongoing, though, that's when the questions come in,

659
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,679
you know, and you could at least try And we

660
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,239
do know that a lot of times, whether it's big

661
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,280
for or dog man or anything, sometimes you put up

662
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,840
the cameras and then the activity either wanes or it

663
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,440
stops altogether. But at least you can say, well, I

664
00:41:26,519 --> 00:41:27,079
did put that.

665
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,079
Speaker 1: And I think that was the case as well, is

666
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,599
that I think some of their obviously some of their

667
00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:36,400
experiences were a little time apart. I'm not saying it

668
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,880
was happening time, but one of them, one of the

669
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,000
witnesses and their encounters, this was something they were encountering

670
00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:50,559
quite regularly that you know, it was walking around their building,

671
00:41:50,679 --> 00:41:53,400
they were seeing it through windows, they were you know

672
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:57,360
to the point where you know, her and her daughter

673
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,760
were experiencing it. You know, there were and I was

674
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,079
just like, it sounds horrifying, and I totally get what

675
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:06,199
you're scared and all of that. You know, who wouldn't be,

676
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:12,760
But surely after the third or fourth time, you would go, Okay,

677
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,599
I'm going to you know, people are going to laugh

678
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:16,719
at me. I'm going to I'm going to prove these

679
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,480
things there, you know, yeah sort of.

680
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: Thing that's true. Even after just maybe they told their

681
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,559
friends or their family members and they were getting maybe

682
00:42:24,679 --> 00:42:27,519
laughed at, you go, you know what, screw you. I'm

683
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,960
that's pissing me off because I am actually seeing this thing,

684
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:31,360
you know, and it would be horrifying.

685
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: By the way, Yeah, no, I totally look as I say.

686
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,880
I mean, you know, I grew up watching werewolf movies.

687
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,440
And certainly, like everybody, I watched Bad Mood and was like,

688
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:47,000
that's probably the most horrifying werewolf I've ever seen. Thanks,

689
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,960
you know, so you know, you have to be a

690
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,199
certain age being traumatized by some of those movies. But

691
00:42:54,199 --> 00:43:00,360
but yeah, yeah, you know, nobody, I'm not I'm going

692
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,280
to the first say that. I'm sure if I saw

693
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,119
it the first time, you know, it would be you know,

694
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:07,480
as Deadpool puts it, a brown underwear moment.

695
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you wouldn't be thinking, oh, let me get

696
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,239
this for the GRAM. No, you're not going to be

697
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,360
thinking that. You're going I just saw a freaking monster

698
00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:15,840
and I shot myself.

699
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,599
Speaker 1: Absolutely. But I think when some of these people you

700
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:22,320
know who have come on and they again they sound

701
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,400
very genuine, but I just question that aspect of they're

702
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,840
getting repeated encounters and that you know, and they are.

703
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,960
If you look at the comments that some of these

704
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,639
encounters get and things like that, they're obviously getting questions

705
00:43:36,679 --> 00:43:40,119
and you know, derided to a certain point. I would

706
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,320
That's where I would say, you know, throw it open.

707
00:43:44,639 --> 00:43:47,000
I'll come up and try and document them, or you

708
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:51,000
know something, we're going to get all sorts of invites after.

709
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,159
Speaker 2: This and now and care for what do you wish for?

710
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't really want to.

711
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:56,320
Speaker 4: Yes, you do.

712
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I'm right there with you. I'm like,

713
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,159
even if I did need to change my pants, sometimes

714
00:44:01,159 --> 00:44:02,599
I want to see these.

715
00:44:06,159 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, that's where when it comes to it,

716
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,239
As I said, I'm really I don't ever want to

717
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,159
dismiss it with unless it's really obvious they're dying or

718
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,480
and again the other thing that obviously comes into his

719
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:24,880
mental health problems. But you know, but at the same time,

720
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:29,960
I don't want to dismiss anyone's accounts. But do you ask,

721
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,119
you know, for perhaps they open it up and not,

722
00:44:35,199 --> 00:44:37,800
as I say, you know, try and document these thingness

723
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,480
because you don't want people to be derided. Do we want,

724
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,519
you know, particularly yourself and others in the situation you are,

725
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,840
You want the subject to be taken seriously. And there's

726
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,000
so much nonsense that goes on in the community that

727
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:55,280
actually it's really easy for this to be poo pooed

728
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,880
and you know, dismissed. So you know, stuff like this

729
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,960
is happening. Let's get our act together, you know, And

730
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,880
it is twenty twenty six, and even though I can't

731
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,639
get my internet to work most of the time. You know,

732
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,199
it would be great if, you know, if we could

733
00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:14,039
get our phones out for some of these things. But

734
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,519
I do know, I do understand what would you what

735
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:20,400
it's like in the moment and things like that.

736
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:23,639
Speaker 2: But okay, so then let's let's put this out out there,

737
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,719
Luke for you, because since you are in that area,

738
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,519
you I would assume you're in driving distance to a

739
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:31,400
lot of interesting areas.

740
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,119
Speaker 1: I think that's the enjoy of the UK. I've normally

741
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,559
in driving distances most places, and certainly within a day.

742
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, what did you want to put out

743
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,079
a way? Do you have a way to contact you

744
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:45,280
in your blog or something if somebody did have a

745
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:46,880
way to fite you out.

746
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, so any of the socials, black Beast Books or yeah,

747
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:55,719
the email is Luke at Blackbeastbooks dot co dot uk.

748
00:45:56,599 --> 00:45:58,360
But if you go on the blog or anything like

749
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:01,800
that or any of my socials, the emails on their

750
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:05,360
message me on the platforms again, so again if you

751
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,679
look at Black Beast Books on socials.

752
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: I mean we may as well put that out there

753
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,679
right as well, invite Luke out to your area. He

754
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,440
does research this stuff. He doesn't just write about it.

755
00:46:17,639 --> 00:46:20,280
He writes about it because he researches this stuff. So

756
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:20,960
get in touch.

757
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that is the vicious Yeah yeah,

758
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:27,199
like I said, like I said, you know, one of

759
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:34,800
the things in my current work in progress predatory nature. Again,

760
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,920
I think one of the reasons we see a lot

761
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,760
of black cats in the UK is because there was

762
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:46,320
this predilection in you know, to get black leopards from

763
00:46:47,199 --> 00:46:52,760
the Malaysian the Malaysian Peninsula, which happens to have this

764
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:58,880
huge density of melanistic leopards, you know, you know, very uncharacteristically,

765
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:02,239
something like ninety center of the population of the Malaybor

766
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:10,880
Ninsula are melanistic, particularly south of the specific region. But yeah, there, yeah,

767
00:47:11,199 --> 00:47:15,480
so that we got a lot of our you know,

768
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,639
our initial stock from there when they were being brought

769
00:47:18,639 --> 00:47:20,880
through here at Harrod's and things like that. So and

770
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,280
also again they tended to be as a subspecies, they

771
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,800
are a little bit smaller than you know, your typical

772
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,360
African leopards and things. So I mean, I think I

773
00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:32,440
sent you pictures of the leopards I've seen in Africa,

774
00:47:32,559 --> 00:47:36,239
which are quite quite chunky, you know, whereas the Malaysian

775
00:47:36,679 --> 00:47:40,119
leopards are a lot smaller, a little bit more sleeker,

776
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:46,400
you know, so again that made them popular because people

777
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,639
thought they were more manageable.

778
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: So, Luke, is that is that Book four Thomas Walker.

779
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,599
Book four is Predatory Nature?

780
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Thomas Walker book for us is currently in progress.

781
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: Yay, are right? And it was what is called Predator

782
00:48:00,039 --> 00:48:01,960
for our nature? You've settled on that it is?

783
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what It's cool.

784
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 2: Oh I love it, Mike Drop, Yeah, yeah.

785
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: This is a is a go big, go home novel?

786
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: Is it really?

787
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: We do turn it up? I do turn it up

788
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:15,400
to eleven.

789
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:16,199
Speaker 5: So this is.

790
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 2: That is so odd. I'm excited.

791
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying writing it.

792
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: So oh how wonderful? Yeah, because I wanted to say,

793
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:27,159
I mean, since we're still talking about the big cats

794
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:30,639
and everything. Book one was Shadow Beast, Book two, Daughters

795
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:34,719
of the Darkness, Book three Phantom Beast, and now Predatory Nature,

796
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:37,719
and that of course follows Thomas Walker. He was a

797
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,440
previously he's a former hunter and then a biologist or

798
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,519
a wildlife specialist or something, right.

799
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly right, so yeah, yeah, yeah, former game guide

800
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:53,800
and hunter turned conservationist, you know, after a tragedy in

801
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:59,400
his life, retired to Scotland where he grew up and

802
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:05,079
then encountered the big Hat phenomenon, you know, in the UK. Obviously,

803
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,519
you know, I used fiction to make it something entirely monstrous,

804
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,280
but in pregnatory Nature you do get the full story

805
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:18,440
of where they've come from, what they are and so forth.

806
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,079
Speaker 2: So yeah, that is amazing. And of course I can't

807
00:49:23,079 --> 00:49:25,360
talk to you without bringing up the Tsavo Lions, because

808
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,119
that's a that's a shared love of both of ours,

809
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:35,639
is the story of those incredibly vicious lions in Africa.

810
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: And of course with you recently been having gone to

811
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,840
the Film Museum. So now I'm massively jealous.

812
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: I know, and I actually tagged you in that post,

813
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,000
not to rub it in your face, but just because

814
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:47,760
you're the I mean, you're the first one I thought

815
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,599
of when I was like, Luke is going to love

816
00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:53,239
this that I'm standing here with these these giants.

817
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:56,519
Speaker 1: I know, I really did my eyes and I've downloaded

818
00:49:56,519 --> 00:50:00,639
the press pack and yeah, yeah, I've done the whole Yeah,

819
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:03,199
I mean they are, I really have. I will I

820
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,480
will go to Chicago. I will I will go there.

821
00:50:05,679 --> 00:50:09,800
But obviously again they've been in the news recently because

822
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,920
of the new discoveries that the Chicago Film Museum have

823
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,840
potentially found. So, you know, we now know that they

824
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:23,400
were brothers. They both came from the same mother. They're

825
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,000
not sure about father, but they definitely know that they

826
00:50:26,039 --> 00:50:31,199
came from the same mother. They were. They do know

827
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,840
that they had bad dentician. We kind of knew that already,

828
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,199
but that they knew that they had that bad dentician.

829
00:50:39,559 --> 00:50:46,199
One of them in particular had basically a hollow canine tooth.

830
00:50:47,639 --> 00:50:52,840
But again that's you know, they've they've been able to

831
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,239
take samples from that tooth, and they found this plug

832
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,800
of human hair which had been massively compacted. You know,

833
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:07,840
I think there was Josh Gates found this on Expedition Unknown.

834
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,000
I think it was a recent episode of that that

835
00:51:11,039 --> 00:51:14,280
they had it on. I haven't reached out to the

836
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,159
Chicago Field Museum and if there's anything else they can

837
00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:19,280
release about it, but they haven't got back to me.

838
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,440
They have in the past, so I'm sure they will,

839
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,400
but yeah, they haven't got back to me yet. But yeah,

840
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:29,159
so and again they've been able to identify this plug

841
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:36,639
of human hair, so verifying potentially how many human victims

842
00:51:36,639 --> 00:51:39,239
they have, which has always been a bone of contention,

843
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:45,519
no pun intended, Yeah, because you know, people have always

844
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:48,639
dismissed it and said, oh, it was around thirty five.

845
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:55,039
Whereas you know Colonel Patterson, you know, he he in

846
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:57,599
his book, you know, The Man Eaters a Sava, he

847
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,559
says it was around one hundred and thirty five. And

848
00:52:00,599 --> 00:52:04,039
I think two male lions over the course of ten months.

849
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,639
One hundred and thirty five sounds right, you know, yeah.

850
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 2: It really does, Yeah, it does.

851
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: That's roughly it's roughly one and a half to two

852
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:18,679
people each, yeah, per week, which a lion would need

853
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:23,360
to know easily need to sustain itself.

854
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 2: You know, that sounds about right. And yeah, it was

855
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,639
so humbling to be standing there in front of them

856
00:52:29,639 --> 00:52:33,000
after I've been waiting to see them. And I had

857
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,000
been in Chicago prior to this years ago and didn't

858
00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:38,159
go to the Field Museum, and I always regretted it,

859
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,800
and I mean, I know, is there. Of course a

860
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,079
wonderful trip filming for on the trill Ufo season two,

861
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,159
but finally seeing the Tsavo lions was one of the

862
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,840
ultimate highlights, not just that trip but just it always

863
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,320
a bucket list item for me, So it made me

864
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,280
very happy to see them. Very dark story, of course,

865
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,480
it's not for great reasons that they are behind the

866
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:06,599
glass and they have the very famous movie attached to

867
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:09,559
them with Val Kilmer Michael Douglas. But yeah, I love

868
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:14,599
to see them. Okay, So let's shift gears and go

869
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:18,440
a little ghosty time now. So you this is a

870
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,400
place that you say you walk all the time, and

871
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,000
it's called blue Bell Hill. So what's going on at

872
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:26,440
blue Bell Hill? Yeah?

873
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: So, I mean I lived about two and a half

874
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,119
miles from Bluebell Hill. It is literally a straight shot

875
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,800
straight up the road onto the North Downs for me.

876
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:40,360
So yeah, blue Bell Hill. Again, it's one of those

877
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:47,199
places where it's just steeped in this legend of particular hauntings.

878
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,639
In particular, it is a woman in white story. So

879
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:59,719
it's linked to the story of in the nineteen sixties,

880
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:05,239
a bride on her way to our wedding, well, you know,

881
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,960
in her in the white dress, you know, the whole

882
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:13,599
hulker bodle, you know, was involved unfortunately in a tragic

883
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:19,679
you know, fatal accident. Uh. And the story goes that

884
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:27,000
regularly people see a bride in a bridal gown, flagging

885
00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:31,880
people down, you know, asking for a lift to her wedding. Uh,

886
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,719
and you know, they get stories go as far as

887
00:54:35,639 --> 00:54:38,000
her getting in the car and then you know, and

888
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,400
then when people get down to you know, the bottom

889
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,440
of the hill to Maidstone, and they turn around and

890
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,039
the woman has fully disappeared, So she's not appearing to

891
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:52,079
them as a misty, translucent figure. They they're seeing it

892
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:55,639
as a you know, fully corporeal sort of figure. You

893
00:54:55,679 --> 00:55:00,400
know that they can't tell us ghostly until to our words.

894
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:06,679
But yeah, so it's nineteen six just yeah, sorry, fascinating

895
00:55:06,679 --> 00:55:09,800
for anyone actually watching a video. But a man now

896
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,280
reading from a notebook.

897
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,199
Speaker 2: But I have my notes too, don't you worry about that?

898
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:17,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was nineteen sixty five, twenty third of November

899
00:55:17,679 --> 00:55:24,079
nineteen sixty to Maidstone Gazette. Girls die in wedding eve smash.

900
00:55:24,519 --> 00:55:31,199
But that newspaper is fake, oh so so yeah, so

901
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,880
it's widely distributed across the you know, across the internet,

902
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,599
and it's the story for everybody quotes. But that newspaper

903
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:47,280
never exists. It did exist, but it existed in did

904
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,440
you do basically late eighteen hundreds.

905
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 2: So you're saying, it's a tulpa. Is what you're saying.

906
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:58,400
Let's just we're going to explain it away with another mystery.

907
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,119
It's a tulpa.

908
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: Know, I'm open to anything because people's Yeah. Absolutely one

909
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:11,760
of my favorite xyle episodes. Yeah yeah, but yeah, so yeah,

910
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,239
multiple reports of a woman running out in front of

911
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,559
the cars and locking eyes before she's hit and then vanished.

912
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, jerk, I mean, talk about traumatizing people. And you

913
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,920
have phantom hitchhiker and lady in white rolled into one.

914
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:35,119
Speaker 6: You know, that's really yeah yeah, yeah, So the probably

915
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:39,320
the most so the alleged accident happened in nineteen sixty five,

916
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,440
but as I say, that report seems to be false.

917
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:49,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, but sightings pretty much began in Earnest in nineteen

918
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:55,719
sixty seven when people were reporting, particularly this figure that

919
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,360
ran out from the curb side and you know, got hit,

920
00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:04,119
you know, or vanished before as just as the car approached.

921
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:10,280
Probably the most famous one is Maurice Goodenborough from nineteen

922
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:14,960
seventy four. He says he hit a girl with a

923
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,239
hell of a bang. So his car was going down

924
00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:22,760
the hill, you know, he was going to he you know,

925
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,760
he hit. This girl was really worried. Stop the car

926
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,800
got out, she said she was there. He covered her

927
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,119
in a blanket. But then this is where it's a

928
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:34,920
bit odd. He didn't take her. He left her. He

929
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:41,000
went to Rochester Police and said, I think I've hit somebody.

930
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,920
I need help. We of course, when they got back,

931
00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:47,760
nobody was there. I find it very odd for he

932
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,360
hit somebody and just then abandoned them and went to

933
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,639
get to the police from a town which is, you know,

934
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:57,440
four miles away, you know. So but that that that again,

935
00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:01,519
that that one actually did make a real newspaper.

936
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: Maybe he had just cleaned the car luke, you know,

937
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,239
he just vacuumed and the seeds are clean. He didn't

938
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:09,920
want to get any blood on the seats, so that's why.

939
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then there's Paul Toder, who was a member

940
00:58:16,039 --> 00:58:19,679
of the ambulance of an ambulance crew and he says

941
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:23,360
that in nineteen seventy four he was driving up Bluebell Hill,

942
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,679
so sounds like he was going towards Rochester and stopped

943
00:58:27,719 --> 00:58:31,159
to give a lift to a woman in a wedding dress.

944
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,480
And when he stopped to let her out, she wasn't there.

945
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,840
But yeah, I mean, I've heard multiple you know sort

946
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,280
of accounts from Bluebell and again it's one of these

947
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:50,480
just cownormal hotspots in the it gets, it has these

948
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:55,599
ghostly apparitions. I've heard a friend of mine. It's always

949
00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:57,239
a friend of a friend, isn't it. But a friend

950
00:58:57,239 --> 00:59:00,280
of mine has friends who are very well to do,

951
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,519
very normal, you know, they don't go into this sort

952
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:08,880
of sort of stuff normally. But they reported having a

953
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,639
carriage and horses go across Bluebell Hill, you know, and

954
00:59:12,679 --> 00:59:17,280
they having to stop and slam the brakes on. There's

955
00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:20,480
reports of a phantom train or being able to hear

956
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:25,400
the whistle of a phantom train, a steam train. That

957
00:59:25,519 --> 00:59:29,280
one I'm always a bit a bit sort of you know,

958
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,880
skeptical of because there are lots of steam trains in

959
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:34,440
this area.

960
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:37,199
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're like, there are running trains.

961
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: Running seam trains. Yeah. Yeah, so one goes along the

962
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,000
back of where he lives. So it wouldn't be outrageous

963
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:51,559
to hear a steam whistle. No, so yeah that would.

964
00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:56,199
But also again there is a beast of Bluebell Hill there.

965
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,519
You know, it's there's, there's and it's not it's and

966
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:07,159
you've got all of these beasts you know, uh, you know,

967
01:00:09,079 --> 01:00:13,639
alphabetically inclined, you know, and so yeah, there was always

968
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:14,840
there's always the bees.

969
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,519
Speaker 2: It really is, it really is, and more and Bluebell exactly.

970
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's one of these places where stories

971
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:32,519
just seem to gather really, you know, and folklore and

972
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:35,280
you know sort of kinds of clues. And I do

973
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,880
wonder if that is something sort of again in our

974
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,079
sort of collective history, you know, because it's one of

975
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,480
the highest points in the areas. We know that there

976
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:52,320
are stone age and you know, early encampments there, there

977
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,679
are burial mounds and burial grounds there.

978
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 2: Now this beast, Bluebell is a cat, it's a big cats.

979
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, but again meets the black sort of

980
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:04,840
the black panther types.

981
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh that's cool. Well that's an active area.

982
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:11,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. But again there's a country park at the top

983
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:16,519
of the Bluebell Hill. There's woodland, there's ruins, you know,

984
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:20,079
there's an ruins of an abbey and you know, so

985
01:01:20,079 --> 01:01:23,760
so again there's there's these large hugely you know, the

986
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,159
North Downs Way goes for fifty miles you know sort

987
01:01:27,199 --> 01:01:30,000
of you know, from the coast, you know, through into Surrey,

988
01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:33,800
and Sussex, you know, so there's a lot of countryside

989
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,000
up there too, you know, for these potential things to

990
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,039
spend time.

991
01:01:38,199 --> 01:01:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, go see the dog man in the in the

992
01:01:41,639 --> 01:01:42,880
ruined abbey right.

993
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: Very quickly, because I whilst we were talking about big

994
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,480
cats still just going because one of the things that

995
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,920
sometimes people say is that there's no you know if

996
01:01:55,079 --> 01:01:57,360
because obviously there isn't a country in the world that

997
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:02,079
has big cats that hasn't had and human predation, you know,

998
01:02:02,239 --> 01:02:07,159
so sooner or later, unfortunately, these things, you know, you know,

999
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:10,679
will we'll have a shot at taking a human, whether

1000
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:14,320
it's a kid or something like that. And I just

1001
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:21,920
wanted to say that there was a report not too

1002
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:26,519
long ago, and they never released the woman's name, so

1003
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,079
it's really difficult to track her down. But there was

1004
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:34,239
a fifty five year old woman whose vehicle had broken

1005
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:39,320
down near Monkton in Ayrshire, so again back in Scotland,

1006
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:44,239
and she phoned you know, the breakdown service she reported

1007
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:50,119
that she was she had broken down. Her body was

1008
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:55,440
found almost a mile away from the car and it

1009
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,760
looked that she had basically left the car in this

1010
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:04,239
layby and had gone into local sort of woodland and scrubland.

1011
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,400
There were some reports that she was running that she

1012
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,960
I don't know how much of that is exaggerated, you know. Again,

1013
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:19,480
there's so few details of this, but what is detailed,

1014
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:26,320
and it is reported clearly in the Corners report, is

1015
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:30,039
that she had been fed on by wildlife, so she

1016
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:33,679
had been partially consumed. And again, what's really interesting about

1017
01:03:33,719 --> 01:03:37,239
that is that they've put it down to foxes and badgers,

1018
01:03:37,639 --> 01:03:43,840
and I find that very difficult to believe. Yeah, I work,

1019
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,719
I've worked directly with red foxes, you know. I was

1020
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,800
a volunteer with her Wildlife Rescue Service, which specialized in foxes,

1021
01:03:55,079 --> 01:03:58,960
and to just get near the things, even when they're

1022
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:04,440
wounded or injured. You know, they're very skittish around us,

1023
01:04:05,239 --> 01:04:08,199
you know. And I think for any of our local

1024
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:13,039
wildlife which has this inert fear of humans, she would

1025
01:04:13,039 --> 01:04:15,519
have had to be there a very long time. And

1026
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:19,199
she wasn't there a very long time, you know, because

1027
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:21,639
I think, you know, for a human body to be

1028
01:04:21,719 --> 01:04:25,400
there and animals to investigate, I think she would have

1029
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,280
had to be there a very long time before they

1030
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,559
felt that, you know, okay enough to sort of to approach.

1031
01:04:34,199 --> 01:04:36,360
But yeah, that's a long one. And I do know

1032
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,840
that Jonathan McGowan, who does a lot of big cat

1033
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:46,119
research down in the Southwest, he there's a historical case

1034
01:04:46,639 --> 01:04:51,079
of a woman who allegedly committed suicide which he thinks

1035
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:53,719
may have been a big cat attack that they covered up.

1036
01:04:55,159 --> 01:04:56,920
So I don't know if he's changed his mind. It's

1037
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,039
been a little while, you know, it's been a couple

1038
01:04:59,039 --> 01:05:01,400
of years since I've been able to speak to Jonathan.

1039
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,039
But again a Big Cat in Britain conference, he did

1040
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:06,159
talk about this.

1041
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 2: Wow that so she that she got attacked and killed

1042
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:12,679
by a cat, but they made it look like she

1043
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:13,800
committed suicide.

1044
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: That was that was what the story was being suggested

1045
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,840
at the time. And as I said, I've never heard

1046
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:22,440
anything more on that, but it was it was something

1047
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,039
that Jonathan brought up at the time, which would have

1048
01:05:25,079 --> 01:05:27,519
probably been twenty twelve, I think.

1049
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:31,079
Speaker 2: So the thought would be that she decided to just

1050
01:05:31,119 --> 01:05:34,639
go on a walk about and dive from the elements

1051
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,960
and then that was the suicide part. But then actually

1052
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,400
they then they're saying the cat after.

1053
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: From why I gather and what I remember, the reason

1054
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:47,760
why the suicide was questioned is because there was no note,

1055
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:56,920
There was no history of you know, mental upset. You know,

1056
01:05:57,079 --> 01:06:01,840
it couldn't be clearly put down. Why why there would

1057
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,880
be why she would have done this, you know, And

1058
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,039
again there's easier ways than just leaving yourself, you know,

1059
01:06:09,159 --> 01:06:13,400
open to the elements. So yeah, there was there was that.

1060
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:19,199
But I also seem to remember and I must actually

1061
01:06:19,639 --> 01:06:22,519
try and clarify it. Actually, I'll try and reach out

1062
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:27,559
to Jonathan and see if he remembers anything. But I

1063
01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:30,400
seem to recall that they didn't let the family have

1064
01:06:30,679 --> 01:06:33,320
like a see the body or something like that. There

1065
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,639
was there was reasons why he thought it was suspicious,

1066
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:41,159
but I can't remember exactly. But as I say, the

1067
01:06:41,199 --> 01:06:45,960
one that was recent was in Scotland and that definitely

1068
01:06:46,039 --> 01:06:50,159
had signs of consumption and that and that was a

1069
01:06:50,199 --> 01:06:53,760
really interesting because that's that never happens in the UK.

1070
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:58,559
You know, people just aren't found with signs of predation.

1071
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:03,519
You know, we don't have any natural predators here, yeah,

1072
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:10,039
big enough to and again our wildlife foxes and badgers

1073
01:07:10,199 --> 01:07:14,480
are so skittish. I just have a hard time imagining them,

1074
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:21,000
you know, you know, just going up to a human,

1075
01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:24,199
even a deceased human, and chowing down.

1076
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, it wouldn't be a nice way to go

1077
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,880
as long as I'm already gone, and you can have

1078
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,320
a snack after that, you know that, please after I

1079
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:35,079
am gone.

1080
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, so yeah, sorry, As I said, the Southeast,

1081
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,880
you know, it is a bit of a hotspot for

1082
01:07:44,039 --> 01:07:46,440
all of these kinds of things, you know. You know,

1083
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,920
going back to hauntings, the most haunted village in the

1084
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:53,400
UK isn't too far from me, you know. So Plucky

1085
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:55,639
which is in the Guinness Book of Records as being

1086
01:07:56,519 --> 01:07:59,840
England's most haunted village, is about ten miles away.

1087
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:03,639
Speaker 2: So yeah, well yeah, tell us what's going on in

1088
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:05,599
Pluckly So.

1089
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's the most haunted village in England. It's

1090
01:08:10,119 --> 01:08:12,679
appeared on things like toup Gear and the Grand Tour

1091
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,840
because they spent a night in the Screaming Woods of Daring,

1092
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:19,399
you know, quite famously.

1093
01:08:21,079 --> 01:08:21,159
Speaker 2: So.

1094
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,039
Speaker 1: But the Screaming Woods, which is again it's a place

1095
01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:26,319
I go wildlife watching all the time. It's a really

1096
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:30,760
good bird reserve, you know. Yeah, so I go there

1097
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:34,199
all the time. But it just happens to have, you know,

1098
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,960
this this paralormal reputation as well. But in Daring Woods,

1099
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,319
which is just outside of Pluckley. It's known as the

1100
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:50,800
Screaming Woods because people report hearing whispers, unearthly voices, and

1101
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:55,680
horrifying screams. You know. You know that really sort of

1102
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,199
put the chills down down the steins again as a

1103
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:02,479
wildlife is used. I tend to whenever I hear people

1104
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,439
in woods or near buildings and they hear unearthly screams,

1105
01:09:06,199 --> 01:09:09,960
my my, my, my, my, my, My gut instinct is

1106
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,279
bar now they've heard a barn out, because if you've

1107
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:15,680
ever heard of bar now, it is not you know.

1108
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:19,279
We've got towny ours here, which are the typical twits

1109
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:23,720
to you know. They make the lovely call that we

1110
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,119
will know or associate with ours, which has actually a

1111
01:09:27,199 --> 01:09:31,479
male and a female calling to each other. So the

1112
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:37,399
quick or the twit is the female and is the male,

1113
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:44,039
you know, so so yeah, but barn ours, unfortunately, are

1114
01:09:44,039 --> 01:09:46,840
not gifted with that beautiful call. They are gifted with

1115
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,119
this godly scream which sounds if.

1116
01:09:50,039 --> 01:09:53,119
Speaker 2: You're sorry, no go ahead, Yeah.

1117
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:58,119
Speaker 1: It's horrible. It does sound like a woman died. It's horrible,

1118
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:00,840
you know, I don't I think. Yeah, barn ows in

1119
01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:02,039
the US don't they.

1120
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen one, but yeah.

1121
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:08,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah so that yeah, but they make horrific noes.

1122
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,000
But so I tend to think barn ows when people

1123
01:10:12,039 --> 01:10:15,159
say they're in the woods and they here with horrible noises.

1124
01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:20,840
But again, Pluckley, has I think it's thirteen or it's

1125
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:23,640
between thirteen and seventeen official ghosts?

1126
01:10:24,039 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 7: Good nis Okay, so yes, okay, So without before we

1127
01:10:29,079 --> 01:10:31,880
go to some of those ghosts, going back to the screaming,

1128
01:10:32,279 --> 01:10:34,279
So if we take the.

1129
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 2: Probably legit explanation out of the owls, what what then

1130
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,279
is the legend or the lore with the screaming that

1131
01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,359
people here? Are they saying that that is? You know,

1132
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,520
is there a story attached to that of a woman

1133
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:52,319
being murdered or something of that nature.

1134
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:56,640
Speaker 1: Yes, So this isn't my area of expertise. If there

1135
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,119
are any sort of UK ghost sort of expertsy, if

1136
01:11:00,159 --> 01:11:02,520
I get any of this wrong, this is your opportunity

1137
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,800
to get in touch with shadow and and and say

1138
01:11:06,079 --> 01:11:08,079
do what I did with Paul and say no that's

1139
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:13,479
not right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just say just to say.

1140
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,159
But so, from as far as I'm aware, Darren Woods

1141
01:11:17,199 --> 01:11:24,640
itself doesn't have any specific legends other than the attached

1142
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,960
legend from the church, which is Lady Darren is walking

1143
01:11:30,039 --> 01:11:34,560
the woods looking for her lost child, but that that

1144
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:42,800
legend is actually attached to the Syncholas's Church in Pluckley.

1145
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:47,600
So I'm just going to turn the light on and

1146
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:49,279
no problem.

1147
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,319
Speaker 2: It's always so many tragic stories, you know. It's a

1148
01:11:53,359 --> 01:11:57,039
woman that her husband or her fiance was killed the

1149
01:11:57,079 --> 01:12:00,319
day of the wedding, or the woman looking for her

1150
01:12:00,399 --> 01:12:02,920
last child. These you know, heart wrenching.

1151
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:07,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Lady Dering, who was also known as the

1152
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:14,319
Red Lady, she was buried in several leadlined coffins, clutching

1153
01:12:14,319 --> 01:12:18,039
a red rose, and she is apparently searching for her

1154
01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:22,920
non baptized baby who who couldn't be buried in the

1155
01:12:23,119 --> 01:12:28,960
in the daring vault in Saint Nicholas's Church. Yeah so,

1156
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,399
but yeah, so she was apparently buried in these lead

1157
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:36,600
lined several lead lined coffins, which suggests the body was

1158
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:42,159
split up to try and keep the spirit contained. But yes, so,

1159
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:47,920
and she walks the graveyard and also allegedly daring woods

1160
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,640
and apparently she could be seen as a light flickering

1161
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:58,000
in the chapel, or an orb or as a full apparition.

1162
01:12:58,279 --> 01:13:02,000
So yeah, and again the church itself has some really

1163
01:13:02,199 --> 01:13:06,359
interesting sort of that sort of weird experience, almost fun

1164
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:12,399
you know experiences. So like a bunch of ghost sort

1165
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:18,680
of hunters camped out at the church and just to

1166
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:23,760
see if I've got it here. I don't think I did, no,

1167
01:13:24,239 --> 01:13:26,920
but they camped out of the church and they were

1168
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:32,079
speaking to the local reverence the next morning and they said, now,

1169
01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:33,800
we didn't really find anything.

1170
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 3: But.

1171
01:13:35,079 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: You know, we were a bit annoyed that you let

1172
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,560
your dog out, and it was it was wonking in

1173
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:41,680
and you know, walking in and out of the church

1174
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:49,359
all night, which the brethren said, I don't have a dog, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1175
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:54,640
And what's funny is that one of the lanes of

1176
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:59,159
Pluckley is haunted by footsteps and the sound of a

1177
01:13:59,279 --> 01:14:02,600
dog meant to be a Springer Spaniel walking along with

1178
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:06,960
his master, And you can be walking along the lane

1179
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,359
and it feels like they're coming right up behind you

1180
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:12,640
and people turn around expecting to see someone, and of

1181
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:16,199
course nobody is there. So it's funny that there is

1182
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:20,520
a dog ghost sort of associated with Pluckley. And they

1183
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,439
reported seeing a ghost, but again they would have probably

1184
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:29,520
known the history. So but yeah, then there's not to

1185
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,359
be outdone. There is also the White Lady of Daring

1186
01:14:33,399 --> 01:14:40,479
who again is seen in the graveyard. Oh so, going

1187
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,920
back to the screaming woods of Plucky Dringwood, the devil

1188
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,720
himself is said to jump out of a bush in Dringwood.

1189
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,000
So yeah, you might be surprised by the devil on

1190
01:14:51,079 --> 01:14:59,760
a jaunt to daring Wood. So and then what's interesting

1191
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:05,920
is how folklore can kind of merge with real life events.

1192
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:12,119
So one of the stories is about Dickie Laurel's Road,

1193
01:15:13,199 --> 01:15:21,720
which is about sometimes on certain nights the ghost of

1194
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,680
a schoolmaster could be seen hanging from the trees because

1195
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:32,359
he hung himself. But actually this goes back to a

1196
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:37,199
suicide that was actually a real suicide that happened in Smarden,

1197
01:15:37,279 --> 01:15:41,000
which is a nearby village, and he wasn't a schoolmaster,

1198
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:45,279
but there was a schoolmaster who committed suicide. He didn't

1199
01:15:45,319 --> 01:15:48,880
hang himself. So it's interesting about how these sort of

1200
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:53,600
these stories kind of you merge and become one and

1201
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:58,319
then you get these sort of legends. Then we've got

1202
01:15:58,359 --> 01:16:04,479
the legend of Grace and rose Court. So Great Stones

1203
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:08,760
has a legend of which these are both buildings, impluctly,

1204
01:16:09,039 --> 01:16:11,159
and they're private buildings, I should say, So it's not

1205
01:16:11,199 --> 01:16:13,760
like you can just rock up and knock on the

1206
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:15,800
door and say, you know, I'd like to see your

1207
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:22,039
ghost please. But Great Stones has a phantom monk, and

1208
01:16:22,079 --> 01:16:27,319
then rose Court has the ghost of a young lady

1209
01:16:27,359 --> 01:16:30,640
called Mary Anne Bennett, and it's thought that the two

1210
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:34,560
were involved in some kind of love affair and because

1211
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:41,680
it was not allowed or forbidden, they were kind of

1212
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,399
the Romeo and Juliet of their time. And you know,

1213
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:50,760
she actually overdosed on opium in eighteen sixty two, and

1214
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,840
we don't know how the monk potentially died, but it's

1215
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,800
thought that they're linked and they're both basically looking for

1216
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:04,359
each other, but a sort of unfortunately restricted to their

1217
01:17:04,159 --> 01:17:07,359
their their two properties which are along the same road,

1218
01:17:07,479 --> 01:17:12,319
but for whatever reason they're landlocked as.

1219
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:16,000
Speaker 2: Such, so they can never find each other for eternity exactly.

1220
01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And again this is where that story of the

1221
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:24,000
lap dog comes in, because she had a dog. So yeah,

1222
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:30,119
so this, Yeah, then there's the screaming Man, so not

1223
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:31,680
the screaming in plucky.

1224
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's going on in pluckly Man?

1225
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:43,159
Speaker 1: And this is a documented accident that happened the brickworks

1226
01:17:43,239 --> 01:17:46,880
in Pluckley, which was so when they were excavating clay

1227
01:17:47,239 --> 01:17:50,640
manually as they did, and this was eighteen ninety nine

1228
01:17:51,079 --> 01:17:57,479
where Richard Brichland unfortunately was a laborer who was crushed

1229
01:17:57,479 --> 01:18:02,560
and killed by a collapsing bank of clay. So yeah,

1230
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:07,239
so he's Uh. Then we've got probably my favorite location

1231
01:18:07,359 --> 01:18:12,560
in Pluckley, which is Fright Corner, you know, which which

1232
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:20,680
has the screaming man, so uh, has a phantom coaching horses,

1233
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,560
and but it also has a highwayman who hid in

1234
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,479
the oak tree and you can go. The oak tree

1235
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:31,640
still there, so you can go and see it. Uh.

1236
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:35,880
And uh, it's said that his execution has re enacted,

1237
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,239
you know, at night, you know. So I don't know

1238
01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:42,319
if people, you know, if you if you're a stone taped,

1239
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,640
fiery person or you know, the sort of but you know,

1240
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,479
his execution, his discovery and execution is played out on

1241
01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:53,760
particularly nights of the full moon and when it's clear

1242
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,920
and around about midnight. I believe we don't have the

1243
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:01,760
water crested Woman at the same place, who was a

1244
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:07,600
woman called Sarah Sharp who would sell watercress, you know,

1245
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:11,800
by the roadside and she fell asleep with a lit

1246
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:15,600
pipe in her mouth and burned to death. And again

1247
01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:18,479
this is a real documented case. We know it happened,

1248
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:25,319
but she said to haunt on the same area. And

1249
01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:28,039
then we have got the black ghost of the Miller,

1250
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:32,399
who is associated very strongly in the area with thunderstorms.

1251
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:37,920
And again, like others in Pluckley, he seems love lorm.

1252
01:19:38,319 --> 01:19:45,159
He's looking for a lost love. Yeah, and yeah, there

1253
01:19:45,279 --> 01:19:51,840
is a park Wood which is there is a certain

1254
01:19:52,079 --> 01:19:57,680
park footpath where all the locals refuse to go. And

1255
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:04,600
again this is the actual site of the person who

1256
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,199
did hang himself, which was a colonel. And again he

1257
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:10,319
can he can be seen to step out from the

1258
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:14,960
path or could be seen hanging. You know. To the point,

1259
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:17,199
as I say, we're local, this is the one of

1260
01:20:17,279 --> 01:20:20,880
all the others. They're kind of romanticized and they don't

1261
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,159
mind you're talking about. This is the one where even

1262
01:20:23,199 --> 01:20:27,000
the locals go, you know, it's a big nope for them,

1263
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:29,720
and they don't. Actually, if you go to the path,

1264
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:35,239
it's really quite overgrown. But I mean I've had my

1265
01:20:35,279 --> 01:20:41,239
own experiences. Again in Pluckly, I'd say there's a pub

1266
01:20:41,399 --> 01:20:48,119
called the Black Horse, and I went down there for

1267
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:54,880
basically a ghost watch. Yeah, and I went completely as

1268
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:59,960
a skeptic, if you know, if I'm being being honest, Yeah,

1269
01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:03,600
I think i'd probably recently seen red light or you know,

1270
01:21:03,880 --> 01:21:06,840
and I was determined to be be Shagauni Weaver and

1271
01:21:07,159 --> 01:21:10,560
prove that it was all nonsense and you know, and

1272
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:13,880
then came away sort of terrified. So but yeah, it

1273
01:21:13,920 --> 01:21:21,000
was a that we basically went down there and two

1274
01:21:21,039 --> 01:21:26,960
things of note happened. So one of the things we

1275
01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:31,319
were doing was we were sat at a table and

1276
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:37,159
we were using it wasn't a weigy board, but we

1277
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:41,880
were using you know, a yes no kind of you know,

1278
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:48,600
uh indicator, And we got into a conversation with a

1279
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,840
spirit and it was me another guy and these are

1280
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,720
all members of the public. Yeah, it's been hosted to

1281
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:57,439
my by by hosts, but we were all general members

1282
01:21:57,439 --> 01:22:03,079
of the public and got into this conversation with this

1283
01:22:03,159 --> 01:22:08,279
alleged spirit who was a known murderer of women. He

1284
01:22:08,359 --> 01:22:15,239
didn't like women, you know, and there was we were

1285
01:22:15,279 --> 01:22:20,239
talking to him, and suddenly that the you know, the

1286
01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:24,159
people who were facilitating it, they got very serious and

1287
01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:27,520
came over to the table because they realized who they

1288
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:31,319
thought we were talking to, and they said, this, the

1289
01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:33,800
spirit you're talking to is very dangerous. We want to

1290
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:38,239
be here, you know, sober. And I'm going, okay, and

1291
01:22:38,279 --> 01:22:41,720
I'm looking under the table for magnets, and you know,

1292
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:46,680
because there was quite violent movement, you know, of the silas.

1293
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,840
And I was asking you questions like, you know, are

1294
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,439
you annoyed? You know, are you speaking to me because

1295
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:57,960
you know I'm skeptical and you want to prove something,

1296
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:02,319
And it came back with this really emphatic yes, you know,

1297
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:09,399
you know, And then I can't quite remember anything else

1298
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,399
I was asking it. But when what happened was there

1299
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,520
was a woman in the party who just took an

1300
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:24,680
interest in the conversation and she was within a couple

1301
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:29,039
of minutes she was violently sick and was thrown up

1302
01:23:29,079 --> 01:23:34,399
against the wall. Yeah. Now again, I'm not dismissing for

1303
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:37,920
a second that this could have all been organized with

1304
01:23:38,039 --> 01:23:40,600
actors and it was a show that they put on

1305
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:43,640
for us and we didn't know any better. And I'm

1306
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:49,159
absolutely open to that possibility, you know, but it didn't

1307
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:52,359
seem so if actually, you know, and we were in

1308
01:23:52,399 --> 01:23:54,720
a pub, she definitely had had something to drink. I

1309
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,199
don't think she'd had enough to drink to be ill,

1310
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,560
you know, And she seemed generally terrified about what had happened.

1311
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:04,760
Speaker 4: Uh.

1312
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 1: And then the other aspect that we did is that

1313
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:12,800
we went up into the attic, which is famous because

1314
01:24:13,279 --> 01:24:20,680
the attic is famous for polticast activity, and there was

1315
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:25,319
lots of people who well what a woman screamed because

1316
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:30,119
she thought her hair had been pulled. I definitely felt

1317
01:24:30,159 --> 01:24:32,800
something pushed me in the back and there was nobody

1318
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:36,560
behind me, you know. So it was one of those

1319
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,680
things that was just a lot of unexplained things happened.

1320
01:24:41,279 --> 01:24:45,960
And again they took it really seriously about before we

1321
01:24:46,039 --> 01:24:50,800
left saging us making sure that we were protected and

1322
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:53,840
that we didn't take anything home with us, which I

1323
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:56,159
know is one of those things that a lot of

1324
01:24:56,159 --> 01:24:58,000
them do. And I'm not, as I say, I'm still

1325
01:24:58,359 --> 01:24:59,960
open to the fact that it could have all just

1326
01:25:00,119 --> 01:25:05,319
been a play and a very enjoyable entertainment. But if

1327
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:09,399
it was, it was exceptionally well done, you know. And

1328
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,439
as I say, they did, they all seemed like genuine members.

1329
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,840
They just weren't good enough to be actors. Really. They

1330
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:21,000
were just normal members of the public, so if we

1331
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,960
were called, they'd look good on them. They did well.

1332
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:26,399
Speaker 2: Now I realized this is a pub, so you go

1333
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,319
there to spend money, but it then do you have

1334
01:25:29,399 --> 01:25:32,520
to pay extra to be able to use, you know,

1335
01:25:33,039 --> 01:25:35,640
any kind of ghost implements.

1336
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:39,079
Speaker 1: So this took place after hours, so it took place

1337
01:25:39,159 --> 01:25:41,840
after the public closed and it was all night, so

1338
01:25:42,640 --> 01:25:44,960
I think this was happening around about three o'clock in

1339
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:49,880
the morning, you know. But yes, it was a paid

1340
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:54,640
you know, you paid as a guest to go to

1341
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:56,960
go along as such. So again it was it was

1342
01:25:57,039 --> 01:26:02,800
hosted by a group, a ghost watching group. And but they,

1343
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:04,560
as I say, they seemed very genuine.

1344
01:26:05,199 --> 01:26:08,039
Speaker 2: Well, and that said, so many things have to go right,

1345
01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:10,600
especially if you have an actual you have a person

1346
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:14,319
that gets sick and then thrown into a wall. I

1347
01:26:14,359 --> 01:26:16,119
don't know aho lot of people that can pull off

1348
01:26:16,399 --> 01:26:20,000
throwing themselves into walls where you kind of buy that.

1349
01:26:21,079 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: I mean I just remember looking and seeing her gun.

1350
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:25,159
Speaker 8: Wow.

1351
01:26:25,279 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she went backwards, you know, so there was

1352
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,520
a door to her left as well, so there could

1353
01:26:33,560 --> 01:26:36,359
have been something that was attached to her and they

1354
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:39,159
get her back of things like that, but again she

1355
01:26:39,319 --> 01:26:42,399
just wasn't in her right mind. She had had a drink.

1356
01:26:42,439 --> 01:26:44,680
There was food, you know, they put on food for

1357
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,399
us and things like that. So that's why you paid

1358
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,319
to a certain extent, because you were you know you were,

1359
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,680
but and again she just wasn't she was an actor.

1360
01:26:52,720 --> 01:26:56,039
She wasn't very good for the rest of the night

1361
01:26:56,079 --> 01:26:56,840
as such. You know.

1362
01:26:56,960 --> 01:27:00,319
Speaker 2: Well, and you can really if they were doing those

1363
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:03,840
kinds of things and were that committed to hoaxing, you

1364
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:06,439
could really hurt somebody. So it sounds like that was

1365
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:07,680
not what was going on.

1366
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:10,640
Speaker 1: No, that's what and that's what I mean. And also

1367
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:14,159
it is the UK, and I don't mean that nasty,

1368
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:16,760
but it's kind of a hocky little village in Kent.

1369
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:21,199
The likelihood of us getting Hollywood level effects and you know,

1370
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:28,079
for a couple of quid entry seems Yeah, it seems

1371
01:27:28,119 --> 01:27:28,960
really unlikely.

1372
01:27:29,359 --> 01:27:31,520
Speaker 2: So then you went in as a skeptic. Did you

1373
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:35,239
come out going, oh, well, maybe maybe maybe this place

1374
01:27:35,319 --> 01:27:38,720
is handed, maybe these are the places are And I.

1375
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: Think since then, like so, one of the things that's

1376
01:27:43,039 --> 01:27:47,199
weird about the pub is that it's never successful. It's

1377
01:27:47,239 --> 01:27:50,199
it's on its third ownership since I've lived in the area,

1378
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:55,319
and like the last people who had it, they turned

1379
01:27:55,319 --> 01:27:59,279
it into a beautiful gastrop hub. They allegedly had it cleansed,

1380
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:03,279
you know, had it, you know, exercised as such, and

1381
01:28:03,399 --> 01:28:07,039
they had two Rottwilers, you know. They weren't mucking around,

1382
01:28:07,159 --> 01:28:11,880
you know, you know, and it was we ate there.

1383
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,520
It was really nice, you know, they were they weren't

1384
01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:18,000
interested in the spooky side at all. And they left

1385
01:28:18,039 --> 01:28:19,439
because they said they couldn't hack it.

1386
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,159
Speaker 2: So that's interesting. So that's called the Black Horse Pub.

1387
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:27,079
Go there, go visit them, make them successful. But so

1388
01:28:27,239 --> 01:28:29,880
they turned it into a gastropub, which means that they

1389
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:33,760
probably or maybe every owner did this. But obviously they

1390
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,800
did some remodeling. It sounds like they maybe updated and

1391
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:40,439
modernized it. So maybe whatever's there going, Hey the hell

1392
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:41,479
are you doing in my pub?

1393
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:45,800
Speaker 1: I think that's the case. And again it's relatively new

1394
01:28:46,239 --> 01:28:50,520
being taken over, and I've seen on Facebook the new

1395
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:54,239
owner is saying, I'm hearing weird things. I've seen something,

1396
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:57,800
you know, And again I don't know if she's dialing

1397
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:00,399
it out to eleven, because you know she's yeah, but

1398
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,720
she's an experienced landlord. She's been a landlord of the

1399
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:08,680
pub many times. Yeah, And lots of pubs in the

1400
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:14,359
area old you know, we're all sort of sixteenth centray pubs,

1401
01:29:14,520 --> 01:29:16,840
so they've all got these kind of legends. But the

1402
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:20,640
black Horse does seem to have a particular concentration.

1403
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:21,239
Speaker 4: You know.

1404
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:23,880
Speaker 2: What a cool name to the black Horse pub That

1405
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:27,439
is very UK style. Yeah, if she wanted to come on,

1406
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:28,640
I would love to start her.

1407
01:29:29,199 --> 01:29:31,159
Speaker 1: It's not quite the Slaughtered Land.

1408
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:36,119
Speaker 2: But yeah, close enough, though probably it probably doesn't beware

1409
01:29:36,159 --> 01:29:36,880
the moors.

1410
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:37,520
Speaker 4: You know, the.

1411
01:29:39,039 --> 01:29:43,560
Speaker 2: Patrons are telling you where the woods beware the moors.

1412
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:45,680
You like all of us over here, like, what the

1413
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:47,319
hell is the more?

1414
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:51,039
Speaker 6: Let me google that anymore?

1415
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:52,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I.

1416
01:29:52,479 --> 01:29:54,159
Speaker 2: Don't know what the Moore is, but I'm going to

1417
01:29:54,399 --> 01:29:55,680
google the hell out of it.

1418
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: Absolutely Yeah.

1419
01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:01,119
Speaker 2: Well, uh luke, before I allege you go once again,

1420
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:04,000
let everybody know where to find you the blog, all

1421
01:30:04,119 --> 01:30:07,279
your socials, and of course where to find your books.

1422
01:30:07,319 --> 01:30:10,560
And because they have some time to get caught up

1423
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:14,279
on Thomas Walker's journey before Predatory Nature turns up.

1424
01:30:15,039 --> 01:30:18,239
Speaker 1: Absolutely so yeah, well let's start there. That's very kind.

1425
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,520
So all of my books are on Amazon So if

1426
01:30:22,520 --> 01:30:25,600
you go to Amazon and look for me Luke Phillips,

1427
01:30:26,439 --> 01:30:33,039
Shadow Beast, Daughters of the Darkness, Fantom Beast are all

1428
01:30:33,079 --> 01:30:36,920
on there. They're all about big cats. As I said,

1429
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,640
So Shadow Beast takes place in Scotland and it's very

1430
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:43,359
much based you know, looks at the you know, in

1431
01:30:43,399 --> 01:30:45,600
a way looks at the big cat phenomenon in the UK.

1432
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:48,359
But as I say, it is to a certain extent

1433
01:30:48,439 --> 01:30:51,359
of Assac Park but with big cats. So you know,

1434
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,199
the Daughter of the Darkness really does look at the

1435
01:30:55,279 --> 01:31:00,000
historical legacy of you know, the Ghost and the dark

1436
01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:03,640
still like Man Eatersusavo, and so we really look you know,

1437
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:07,199
we really look at that. And again I've neither actually

1438
01:31:07,239 --> 01:31:10,439
been to Kenya. I've been to Zimbabwe and Zambia and

1439
01:31:11,119 --> 01:31:14,039
Bartswana and Namibia, but I've never been to Kenya and

1440
01:31:14,079 --> 01:31:18,119
I must go. But we really look at the I

1441
01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:21,359
do look at the historical account. I'm you know, I

1442
01:31:21,359 --> 01:31:24,359
throw aspersions on Colonel Patterson and how he did things,

1443
01:31:24,399 --> 01:31:28,239
and you know, you know, I questioned that you know,

1444
01:31:28,279 --> 01:31:30,199
some of the DNA results and things like that. So

1445
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,800
that's all part of the fiction. But it's about the

1446
01:31:32,840 --> 01:31:35,800
potential modern day legacy of the lions in that area.

1447
01:31:36,359 --> 01:31:38,920
And then Phantom Beast goes back to the sort of

1448
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:43,000
the Jurassic Park but cats kind of thing, and but

1449
01:31:43,079 --> 01:31:46,199
that takes place in the USA and Wyoming, so that

1450
01:31:46,279 --> 01:31:48,359
might might be a good one to look at. And

1451
01:31:48,399 --> 01:31:51,279
then of course there is Rogue, which is the Bigfoot novel,

1452
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:55,279
which is very much my love letter to Bigfoot horror,

1453
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:58,920
you know. So there's there's lots of Easter eggs in there,

1454
01:31:59,159 --> 01:32:02,039
you know, from the dates of the passing given in

1455
01:32:02,159 --> 01:32:06,279
film to you know, the horror movies. You know, there's

1456
01:32:06,319 --> 01:32:08,840
a nod of the head to Knighted the Demon and

1457
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,560
a few other you know, sort of horror films of

1458
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:16,000
the time. And but again it's written, all of these

1459
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:19,600
are written with a basis of animal behavior, so that

1460
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:23,119
you'll always see the animal's point of view, and there's

1461
01:32:23,159 --> 01:32:26,840
real life zoology at their core, you know, why they

1462
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:29,880
can do these things. There's always a real world sort

1463
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:37,319
of scenario or bridge to the behavior as such. So yeah, uh,

1464
01:32:38,039 --> 01:32:40,199
And as I say, Prejudatory Nature will hopefully be out

1465
01:32:40,279 --> 01:32:42,920
later this year, which is book four in the Beast series.

1466
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:49,319
But I'm on Instagram and Facebook as at Black Beast Books.

1467
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:54,079
I'm on YouTube. YouTube is releively new to me, but

1468
01:32:54,119 --> 01:32:57,800
I'm on YouTube as Beasts and Boogi Beasts and Boogeymen

1469
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:05,119
and and the blog is Black Beasts and Boogymen dot com.

1470
01:33:05,199 --> 01:33:07,960
So yeah, that's everything excellent.

1471
01:33:08,079 --> 01:33:10,119
Speaker 2: Well, I always love catching up with you, Luke, And

1472
01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:13,439
once Predatory Nature comes out, I'm sure by then there'll

1473
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:18,840
be other videos and strange cat sightings or and what

1474
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:21,119
we know are legit cat sightings now of course, but

1475
01:33:21,199 --> 01:33:22,800
the UK doesn't like to say that, but there'll be

1476
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:26,159
more cat sightings, we can talk about more haunted locations,

1477
01:33:26,239 --> 01:33:29,159
I'm sure by then. So you are welcome back once

1478
01:33:29,199 --> 01:33:33,199
Predatory Nature comes out, because I love catching up with you, no,

1479
01:33:33,319 --> 01:33:33,720
I was.

1480
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:36,199
Speaker 1: Saying, And as you know, I'm going down a real

1481
01:33:36,279 --> 01:33:40,319
rabbit hole at the moment with these unexplained predatory killings

1482
01:33:41,359 --> 01:33:45,640
in the US and elsewhere, so you know, yeah, we

1483
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:47,520
can talk about those next time. You know, some of

1484
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:54,159
these i'm unresolved mysteries when it comes to sort of

1485
01:33:54,399 --> 01:33:58,840
mysterious predators that have killed you unfortunately kids and things

1486
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:01,319
like that, you know, so yeah, yeah, that's the same.

1487
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:05,039
That's a real new rabbit hole for me. In but yeah,

1488
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:08,319
it's one of those things. Once she's unturned some stones

1489
01:34:08,319 --> 01:34:11,680
and what you start discovering, it's it's yeah, it's a

1490
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:12,920
bit grim really so.

1491
01:34:13,279 --> 01:34:16,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, then it's like Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole

1492
01:34:16,199 --> 01:34:20,039
that she did not intend to stumble down. And yeah, yeah,

1493
01:34:20,119 --> 01:34:22,239
that stuff gets real dark. But yeah, Luke, thank you

1494
01:34:22,279 --> 01:34:23,960
so much. It was so great to catch up with

1495
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:24,399
you again.

1496
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:26,399
Speaker 1: You too, thank.

1497
01:34:30,439 --> 01:34:30,640
Speaker 3: Well.

1498
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:32,600
Speaker 1: I'm so so. I was given the snap by my

1499
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,720
parents business. I out of college. I've done these things

1500
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:36,439
in my profession.

1501
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:37,520
Speaker 9: I produce a little bag.

1502
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:45,039
Speaker 1: But it forgetting that's someone her story. That's all gone,

1503
01:34:45,119 --> 01:34:46,520
that's all past.

1504
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:48,399
Speaker 4: See them million who are now?

1505
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:50,680
Speaker 6: Nobody knows what their.

1506
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 1: Because we don't know except for listening to worry.

1507
01:34:59,399 --> 01:35:00,880
Speaker 4: And so they are memos.

1508
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 1: But that's a really and then again leads us fascinating

1509
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:05,800
to this question.

1510
01:35:07,279 --> 01:35:09,720
Speaker 4: Who are you that is?

1511
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:13,359
Speaker 9: I mean, we shall see how they play with.

1512
01:35:13,399 --> 01:35:17,800
Speaker 1: The success will buy the cops to get you to

1513
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:19,159
come out of your show.

1514
01:35:20,119 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 4: And find out it be really old stutsps.

1515
01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:59,439
Speaker 8: Puss Puss.

1516
01:37:13,119 --> 01:37:14,880
Speaker 1: For example, are quite divided on us.

1517
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 9: They will say, no, we don't believe literally in reincarnation

1518
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:24,960
that after your funeral grow, you will sadly become suddenly different,

1519
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:26,800
there being somewhere else.

1520
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:29,439
Speaker 1: They will say.

1521
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:33,840
Speaker 9: Reincarnation means this that if you sitting here now are

1522
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:35,079
really convinced.

1523
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 1: That you're the same.

1524
01:37:35,359 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 5: Person the funding at the door half an hour ago,

1525
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:42,119
you'll be incarnated if you are liberating the.

1526
01:37:42,239 --> 01:37:43,359
Speaker 4: Fans now that you're none.

1527
01:37:45,079 --> 01:37:46,039
Speaker 1: The past hasn't been.

1528
01:37:46,079 --> 01:37:49,520
Speaker 4: Test, the future hasn't existence.

1529
01:37:50,119 --> 01:37:51,279
Speaker 1: There is only the present.

1530
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:53,079
Speaker 5: That's the only amenia.

1531
01:37:53,239 --> 01:37:57,960
Speaker 1: That is the zen master. Don't get apace.

1532
01:37:59,079 --> 01:38:00,640
Speaker 4: The strings.

1533
01:38:03,159 --> 01:38:06,079
Speaker 1: Because there is some ans.

1534
01:38:05,560 --> 01:39:53,960
Speaker 5: Mass pss pss pss pss.

1535
01:39:58,279 --> 01:40:03,359
Speaker 9: Same point is where he says, when you settle down

1536
01:40:03,439 --> 01:40:05,680
in the train and to read your newspaper, and.

1537
01:40:06,239 --> 01:40:08,199
Speaker 4: So you're not the same person.

1538
01:40:09,439 --> 01:40:10,720
Speaker 1: At a while ago and living the plan.

1539
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:15,520
Speaker 9: If you think you are, you are linking your movements

1540
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:19,199
up in the change. And this is what binds is

1541
01:40:20,279 --> 01:40:25,560
we both there when you know that every moment which

1542
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:29,119
you are is the only moment. This concins there. And

1543
01:40:29,119 --> 01:40:30,159
the last will say to.

1544
01:40:30,279 --> 01:40:32,399
Speaker 1: Somebody, I can I have a book across the room

1545
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:34,000
and it can.

1546
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:35,199
Speaker 9: Be back, And he says, where are your foot?

1547
01:40:35,239 --> 01:40:40,680
Speaker 1: They've gone? So where are you?

1548
01:40:41,319 --> 01:40:41,680
Speaker 4: Who are you?

1549
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,359
Speaker 1: When we are asked who we are, we usually give

1550
01:40:45,399 --> 01:40:48,079
a kind of recipation of an instrum stress