WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We're right out to the Kawai consper the hotline, though,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll bring on a good buddy, Ryan Michael at the

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Michael on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 2>Ryan, how you doing this evening?

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<v Speaker 3>Doing well? Then? Nick? How are you guys?

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<v Speaker 2>Do it pretty well?

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<v Speaker 1>I put a put a little trivia thing out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you can answer this. Of the quarterbacks to take

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<v Speaker 1>snaps within the five yard line, I means five yards

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<v Speaker 1>or less to Golden Goost situations, of the sixty one

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<v Speaker 1>quarterbacks to take a snap in that situation, sixty attempted

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<v Speaker 1>to pass. Six players were intercepted, one of which was

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel Jones, who went over three passing in that scenario.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you name any of the other five.

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<v Speaker 3>Off the top of my head? I don't think I can.

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<v Speaker 3>You got me sum Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Nick?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, Nick got one. He got lit more Jackson because

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<v Speaker 1>that was one of them. So there are still there

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<v Speaker 1>are still four more. Now you know one of them

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<v Speaker 1>because I told you one after you went down the line.

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<v Speaker 1>But there are still a few out there. So if

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<v Speaker 1>anybody has any guesses on that without looking, I'm sure to.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure interested to see who people guess on that. Now. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we talked last time we talked about quarterback. I went

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<v Speaker 1>on to the Russell Wilson thing, and I wondered about

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<v Speaker 1>the odds of success in Pittsburgh, And you know, what

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<v Speaker 1>are the odds of success for Russell Wilson? What are

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<v Speaker 1>the odds of success for somebody that age moving on

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, getting a championship or being successfull. You've

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<v Speaker 1>crunched the numbers, you crunched the data, and you've put

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<v Speaker 1>out a Twitter chart that notes very few instances in

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<v Speaker 1>NFL history or a quarterback age thirty six plus joining

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<v Speaker 1>their team at age thirty five plus and winning ten

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<v Speaker 1>or more regular season games.

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<v Speaker 3>Only ten in the history of the National Football League.

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<v Speaker 3>And three of those ten spots go to Peyton Manning.

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<v Speaker 3>Two of the ten spots go to Tom Brady. No

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<v Speaker 3>surprise there. But it's really a testiment then to just

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<v Speaker 3>how difficult it is to take up a new system,

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<v Speaker 3>appliment yourself to a new culture, and then to go

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<v Speaker 3>out there and win games. So if you look at

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<v Speaker 3>the chart that I posted on Twitter, I'll start from

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<v Speaker 3>the bottom and I'll work my way up. I decided

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<v Speaker 3>just to rank them by passer rating ranking, so to

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<v Speaker 3>adjust for era. We have some different players, some different eras.

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<v Speaker 3>Doesn't matter so much to me as where they finished

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of total ranking. You know Doug Flutie in

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen ninety nine off all in ten and five he

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<v Speaker 3>didn't participate in the wild card, but he ranked twenty

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<v Speaker 3>fourth and passerating. The Bills had the number two scoring

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<v Speaker 3>defense in the league that year. You move up, Philip

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<v Speaker 3>Rivers when eleven and six he finished thirteenth in passer rating.

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<v Speaker 3>Tom Brady the year he won the Super Bowl at

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<v Speaker 3>Tampa Bay, is the only one of the ten to

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<v Speaker 3>actually win a championship, but he finished ninth in passer rating,

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<v Speaker 3>which was often times the case for Tom went winning championships.

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<v Speaker 3>Is he was that guy who was playing at a

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<v Speaker 3>high level, Yes, but usually towards the middle or bottom

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<v Speaker 3>of the top ten, not towards the top. He's a

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<v Speaker 3>three time NFLNVP, is three time first Team All Pro.

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<v Speaker 3>Didn't win a championship in any of those years. He

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<v Speaker 3>had Tom playing at a little bit higher level. In

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<v Speaker 3>twenty twenty one seventh place, Peyton Manning was fourth in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty fourteen. Wyatt Hittle, I should say actually two of

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<v Speaker 3>the spots and misspoke earlier at age thirty six in

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen sixty two third in the NFL and passer rating,

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<v Speaker 3>and he tops the chart with his nineteen sixty three

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<v Speaker 3>season led the NFL had a one hundred and four

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<v Speaker 3>twenty eight passer rating. In nineteen sixty three, he threw

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<v Speaker 3>a single season record thirty six touchdown passes and that

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<v Speaker 3>record stood until nineteen eighty four when Marino through thirty

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<v Speaker 3>eight that Manning squirreled in and the number two and

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<v Speaker 3>number three spot second place finishes both times. So what

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<v Speaker 3>you're going to see in terms of the trends of

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<v Speaker 3>the ten quarterbacks listed on that chart is everybody, with

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<v Speaker 3>the exception of Payton Manning, had a top ten scoring

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<v Speaker 3>defense behind them Manning. In twenty fourteen, the Broncos finished sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 3>and twenty thirteen they finished twenty second. So if you're

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<v Speaker 3>hoping to win double digit games and even have a

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<v Speaker 3>shot number one, you better be playing at a high level.

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<v Speaker 3>But just as importantly, you need to have that top

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<v Speaker 3>ten defense to back up.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. Right when we look at the game as we.

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<v Speaker 4>Know it now being played from the quarterback position, everyone

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<v Speaker 4>wants exposed to play.

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<v Speaker 2>Now. For me, being a former defensive guy, I'm cool

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<v Speaker 2>with that guy being efficient.

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<v Speaker 4>And yeah, you know you might say, well, he may

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<v Speaker 4>or may not have a great defense, but I want

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<v Speaker 4>high efficiency because every single game, I'll just say, maybe

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<v Speaker 4>three times in a given game, you may have the

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<v Speaker 4>ability to take a shot down the field. But from

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<v Speaker 4>your opinion, what do you want more of? Because when

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<v Speaker 4>we think about those explosive once.

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<v Speaker 2>Again, this one to three times a game. But is

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<v Speaker 2>it explosive or the efficiency?

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<v Speaker 1>Is this the Alex Smith versus Jay Cutler argument?

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<v Speaker 4>No, no, not necessarily.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think when we.

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<v Speaker 4>Look at quarterbacks and we watch quarterbacks throw.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight to ten yards, in my opinion, that's an explosive.

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<v Speaker 4>But they will see quarterbacks throw a checkdown and we

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<v Speaker 4>always say, well, take what the defense gives you. But

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<v Speaker 4>you still get mad at the quarterback because he threw

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<v Speaker 4>a checkdown.

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<v Speaker 3>Well at Tom Brady spent the majority of his career

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<v Speaker 3>defining what it means to be a and a winner

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<v Speaker 3>with throwing checkdowns. He of course had the occasional bam ball.

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<v Speaker 3>It was never his specialty. It wasn't flashy football. So

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<v Speaker 3>you shouldn't have to choose one or the other. But

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<v Speaker 3>if I was forced to choose Alex Smith or Jay Cutler.

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<v Speaker 3>In most cases, I would take Alex Smith. Most great

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<v Speaker 3>quarterbacks are a combination of a little bit of bolts.

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<v Speaker 3>Even guys like Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to see a mixture of efficiency and explosive plays. I think,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, trying to make a connection here to Broncos

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<v Speaker 3>Country and looking at bo Nick's style of play. I've

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<v Speaker 3>been calling him for months Drew brees light and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's the best comparison. His arm is infinitely stronger

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<v Speaker 3>than Breeze's arm was at any point during his time

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<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans and certainly towards the end of his career.

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<v Speaker 3>So if he can channel the occasional explosive play, which

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<v Speaker 3>we saw plenty with Go Nicks to Troy Franklin in Oregon.

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<v Speaker 3>But overall, if the root core of your game is efficiency,

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's the winning recipe.

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<v Speaker 1>That's something that you know, we're talking about quarterbacks aging.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that something that's that's necessary as to get older?

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<v Speaker 1>What about guys like like Randall Cobb in ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 1>Carson Palmer twenty fifteen, and we're looking at like three

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<v Speaker 1>quarterbacks that are joining this list now that have moved

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<v Speaker 1>on to other teams despite advanced age, Russell Wilson, There Rodgers,

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<v Speaker 1>Kirk Cousins, any of those likely to join the list, I.

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<v Speaker 3>Would say that the most the quarterback with the most

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<v Speaker 3>realistic shot of doing that is probably Russell Wilson, just

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<v Speaker 3>given the strength of Pittsburgh's defense and the overall architecture

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<v Speaker 3>of the team. Aaron Rodgers is going to be forty

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<v Speaker 3>one years old and he's coming off a significant injury,

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<v Speaker 3>and that is not a good combination. So can the

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<v Speaker 3>Jets bounce back to the top ten caliber of defense

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<v Speaker 3>that they were not in twenty twenty three but previously. Sure,

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<v Speaker 3>it's possible. And if you're playing complimentary football, as we

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<v Speaker 3>saw with Peyton Manning in twenty fifteen, you can win games.

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<v Speaker 3>Do I expect Aaron Rodgers to be the driving force

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<v Speaker 3>behind the success of New York?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't.

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<v Speaker 3>And there really isn't much of a press than when

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<v Speaker 3>you're looking at the quarterbacks on this list. There were

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<v Speaker 3>a quarterbacks who were carried, and most of the quarterbacks

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<v Speaker 3>played complementary football, meaning they may have been playing themselves

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<v Speaker 3>at a high level, but they have that top and

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<v Speaker 3>top five defense on the other side of the wall,

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<v Speaker 3>I would say that Russell Wilson has the best shot,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's going to be a tall task for all

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<v Speaker 3>three guys when you're looking at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers

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<v Speaker 3>and Kirk Cousins.

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<v Speaker 4>But right, I mean this is when we look at

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<v Speaker 4>the sport of football, it is complimentary football.

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<v Speaker 2>It is having a balance attack.

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<v Speaker 4>It is relying on your running backs, allowing your wide

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<v Speaker 4>receivers to go out there.

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<v Speaker 2>And make plays for you.

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<v Speaker 4>So if you are a quarterback, whether you are rusty,

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<v Speaker 4>whether you are Aaron Rodgers, and you say okay, well yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm a little long into two, I can't do it

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<v Speaker 4>the way that I used to. Why is it something

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<v Speaker 4>wrong with just being considered like a complimentary piece playing

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<v Speaker 4>the quarterback position.

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<v Speaker 3>There certainly shouldn't be And it's a lot easier to

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<v Speaker 3>be that explosive duel threat when we're younger. And if

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<v Speaker 3>you look at the way Russell Wilson played the ball,

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<v Speaker 3>even despite his efficiency late in games last year, he

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<v Speaker 3>was still a shell of his former self. If you

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<v Speaker 3>compare that to prime Russell Wilson twenty fifteen twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 3>even going up for twenty twenty, you can clearly tell

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<v Speaker 3>us to different quarterbacks. So I don't see there being

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<v Speaker 3>any purpose in stigmatizing agent quarterbacks who evolve their game

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<v Speaker 3>in order to be complementary pieces. Because if that is

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<v Speaker 3>the way that you preserve your spot as a starter,

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<v Speaker 3>and you lean into that experience in terms of diagnosing defenses,

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<v Speaker 3>good decision making, that's absolutely what they should be doing

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<v Speaker 3>at any age of their career. But if that's what

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<v Speaker 3>they're leaning on more heavily in an advanced age, and

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<v Speaker 3>then once we get the thirty six plus, we're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about advanced age for quarterbacks, I think that's a very

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<v Speaker 3>good thing, not something that we should be stigmatizing.

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<v Speaker 2>As we look at this.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, how long can somebody of Russell Wilson's skill

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<v Speaker 1>set go on Tom Brady Payton Manning a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>different type of quarterback. Brady, you know, probably more than

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<v Speaker 1>a sort of viny Testaverdi in a lot of ways

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of you know, playing the way later in

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<v Speaker 1>the skill sets that they had, even though Brady did

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<v Speaker 1>at a much better level. How does somebody like Russell Wilson,

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<v Speaker 1>who thrived on athleticism early in the career and the

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<v Speaker 1>ability to take the deep shot. How do they preserve

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<v Speaker 1>themselves for longevity.

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<v Speaker 3>It's going to be a tremendous challenge. In The obvious

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<v Speaker 3>answer is they have to continue to hone their skills

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<v Speaker 3>as a pocket passer. The closest comparison, which isn't going

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<v Speaker 3>to be a fair comparison, is what Randall Cunningham did

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<v Speaker 3>in Minnesota in nineteen ninety eight. He was arguably the

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<v Speaker 3>most explosive dorth right quarterback the sport has ever seen.

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<v Speaker 3>He was a shell of himself in terms of what

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<v Speaker 3>he could do with his legs later in his career,

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<v Speaker 3>but he had the fortune of throwing the Randy Moss,

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<v Speaker 3>Chris Carter, and Jay Reid. So if you put a

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<v Speaker 3>quarterback of advanced age in a situation that's one of

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<v Speaker 3>the best in the history of football. Sure, Russell Wilson

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<v Speaker 3>and a number of other quarterbacks that have success in

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<v Speaker 3>an offense like that, But the reality is Pittsburgh's offense

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty twenty four is not going to beat the

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen on the eight right house. So for that reason,

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<v Speaker 3>despite my very high opinion of Russell Wilson, I'm certainly

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<v Speaker 3>nervous about what's to come. In twenty twenty four and

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<v Speaker 3>beyind So, with.

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<v Speaker 4>That being said, when you look at older quarterbacks and

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<v Speaker 4>they're in that twilight year of their career, can't really

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<v Speaker 4>do what they used to Usually offensive coordinators tried to

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<v Speaker 4>ca the system around them. But pull it back to

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<v Speaker 4>the Broncos for a second. They got two young quarterbacks,

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<v Speaker 4>Zach Wilson and Bow Knicks, who may end up being

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<v Speaker 4>the starter for the Broncos franchise. Do you think because

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<v Speaker 4>of more years down the line for both Knicks and

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<v Speaker 4>he's a young guy, so shall Payon be willing to

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<v Speaker 4>take more risk or as play calling with Bolls, is

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<v Speaker 4>here a younger guy opposed to last season what we

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<v Speaker 4>saw with Russell.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say that because bo is a quarterback whose

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<v Speaker 3>skill set matches Sean's offense, I agree with what Ben

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<v Speaker 3>said earlier today. They're not going to throw him in

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<v Speaker 3>there to be the starter just for the sake of

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<v Speaker 3>throwing him in there. And just from what I'm seeing

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<v Speaker 3>on the outside looking in, I think they're going to

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<v Speaker 3>exercise tremendous patients as far as how and when they

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<v Speaker 3>work him into the system and when that time comes,

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<v Speaker 3>whether it's halfway through the preseason. Whether it's week one,

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<v Speaker 3>whether it's week five, we don't know yet. But when

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<v Speaker 3>his time does come, I don't think that Sean Payton

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<v Speaker 3>is going to be throwing the kitchen sink at him,

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<v Speaker 3>because that's not the way that you established familiarity and

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<v Speaker 3>a system's complex as his. So I think that we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to see a dial bad version of what Sean

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<v Speaker 3>Payton does by the time bone Nicks takes over as

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<v Speaker 3>the eventual starter.

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<v Speaker 1>Talk with Ryan Michael at the Ryan Michael on Twitter,

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<v Speaker 1>you said a great question here which kind of ties

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<v Speaker 1>into something that I've been talking about, and it said,

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<v Speaker 1>would you rather have a ring as a non contributor

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<v Speaker 1>or an all pro on a team that falls short?

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<v Speaker 1>And the you know, the pr answer here is I'd

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<v Speaker 1>rather have the ring and be a selfless person. But

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<v Speaker 1>the real answer for me is I'd rather be an

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<v Speaker 1>all pro man. Like the more I started thinking about it,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I'd rather be you put other people around

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<v Speaker 1>me and we'll get there, you know, at least that's

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<v Speaker 1>my mentality being a non contributor at getting a ring,

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<v Speaker 1>i'most feel like I got carried there, you know. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be cool to show that hardware all or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm gonna feel like kind of a punk, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if I'm in league circles, I'm showing off this ring

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<v Speaker 1>that I got by riding the pine.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's really a question. It's really a question

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<v Speaker 3>best suited for someone like Peyton Manning who and I

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to use the term carried. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>that that's fair. He played a very small percentage of

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<v Speaker 3>that season, even half healthy, and there were a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of things that he brought to the table that I

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<v Speaker 3>feel helped contribute to that Super Bowl ring in twenty fifteen.

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<v Speaker 3>But if you just go back to twenty thirteen, he

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<v Speaker 3>had arguably the greatest single season in the history of

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<v Speaker 3>pro football, won a conference championship and not a Super Bowl.

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<v Speaker 3>The late great da Marius Thomas is another good example,

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<v Speaker 3>where in Super Bowl fifty he caught one of six

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<v Speaker 3>targets for eight yards, won a championship, and in Super

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<v Speaker 3>Bowl forty eight against Seattle, he caught a then Super

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<v Speaker 3>Bowl record thirteen thousands for one hundred and eighteen yards

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<v Speaker 3>in a touchdown. And that wasn't exactly garbage yarders. They

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<v Speaker 3>were very hard fought yards, even though they were all

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<v Speaker 3>for or not, they didn't amount to a lot of points.

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean, in which season and in which game

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<v Speaker 3>did he play at a higher level Far and Away

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<v Speaker 3>twenty thirteen. I think most players would say they'd rather

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<v Speaker 3>have the ring. I don't think it necessarily has to

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<v Speaker 3>be one extreme or the other. I think the better

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<v Speaker 3>question is really the Tom Brady question, where the guy

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<v Speaker 3>has seven rings. In five or six of those seven rings,

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<v Speaker 3>he was towards the middle or bottom of the top

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<v Speaker 3>ten amongst his peers. Whether you're looking at adjusted net

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<v Speaker 3>yards per ten, DVA total QBR pick your metric, but

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<v Speaker 3>he had a collection of seasons where he was clearly

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<v Speaker 3>the best quarterback in football and had no rings to

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<v Speaker 3>show for it. I would say that if you're a

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<v Speaker 3>first team All Pro, you're certainly contributing more to your

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<v Speaker 3>team's chances of winning. You're a gold medal winner as

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<v Speaker 3>an individual, for lack of a better phrase, compared to

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of guys who wouldn't even hit the bronze medal,

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<v Speaker 3>but maybe they were the six or seventh best quarterback

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<v Speaker 3>in football winning a championship. The latter is what is

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<v Speaker 3>revered more, but the former is questionably what's more impressive

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of what that individual player is contributing to

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<v Speaker 3>their team's chances of winning a championship.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder what the eighth place medal would be. That'd

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<v Speaker 2>probably be my home right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's a wooden medals you know, something I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>but Ryan, we always appreciated that. D Ryan Michael on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 1>Looking forward to catch it up with you again here

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<v Speaker 3>Soon sounds good, Ben, thanks for having me on