Speaker 1: Hey everybody, I'm Sierrah and welcome back to another episode
Speaker 1: of The Unsolved Couple, where every week my handsome cost
Speaker 1: and I've been recap one of your original gateway drugs
Speaker 1: into true crime, unsolved Mystery. Okay, I'm back from crime Con. Welcome, Welcome,
Speaker 1: Welcome to all of my new friends that I met
Speaker 1: this last weekend.
Speaker 2: Tell us all about it.
Speaker 1: Well, it was an amazing weekend and I would love
Speaker 1: to tell you more about it, but we just don't
Speaker 1: have the time, So I'm going to have to talk
Speaker 1: to you about it. I hear all about it on
Speaker 1: the next episode. I want to hear about it. We
Speaker 1: just don't have the time. We are want to hear
Speaker 1: about I was a great success and all of our
Speaker 1: new friends. Say hi to our new friends.
Speaker 2: I will not until you tell me all about crime
Speaker 2: I couldn't possibly she's not telling you because she hasn't
Speaker 2: gone yet. We're recording this before she goes.
Speaker 1: Hey, do not give away our podcast secrets.
Speaker 2: I think we've told this like a thousand times.
Speaker 1: No, But if you are new listening to us from
Speaker 1: crime Con, I'm especially extra exciting to have you here.
Speaker 1: Please make sure you follow, like, subscribe, share. Okay, but
Speaker 1: we are recapping part two of season four, episode twenty three,
Speaker 1: The Unsolved Mystery of the Diabolical Mind.
Speaker 2: I'm irritated we're still at this section this episode.
Speaker 1: I loved this episode. I liked our even our discussion
Speaker 1: we had.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying we I'm not saying I didn't like
Speaker 2: what we did. I don't like this episode.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, they're gonna have to get over it because
Speaker 1: we have all podcast right now.
Speaker 2: I don't like this show.
Speaker 1: The only way I think. I don't like this show.
Speaker 1: Everyone is aware of that at this point.
Speaker 2: I just feel that sometimes I have to state that
Speaker 2: you want to remind people.
Speaker 1: I want to remind people I don't like this show. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: I don't like the word diabolical few friends. As you
Speaker 1: can tell, I'm excited to have you here. Ben shows
Speaker 1: his excitement in a different way, but he's also excited
Speaker 1: to have all of our new listeners.
Speaker 2: I appreciate the people this support. Yeah, a dumb show.
Speaker 1: A dumb show, not this show. Robert Nachs, this show,
Speaker 1: not ours. Okay until mystery show.
Speaker 2: M H.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Robert though our hosts?
Speaker 2: I like Robert, you know how I feel about Robert.
Speaker 1: His way of speaking is very eloquent.
Speaker 2: I wish I could speak halfway like Robert.
Speaker 1: I agree, I wish you could too.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess if you had someone that wrote
Speaker 2: scripts for you in life.
Speaker 1: I read that he wrote a lot of his own. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you got to sit down and write. He was dest
Speaker 1: be an actor. That's right.
Speaker 2: He wasn't that one show. I don't remember what it was.
Speaker 1: It was a crime detective show.
Speaker 2: Robert is awesome.
Speaker 1: He was. He was a good man.
Speaker 2: Do you think we should put a statue of Robert somewhere?
Speaker 1: Do you wish that we could get a Wiji board
Speaker 1: and summon the spirit of Robert Stacks?
Speaker 2: We jumped a short. Let's move on.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So if you haven't listened already, Part
Speaker 1: one is last week. Part two is this week. Last week,
Speaker 1: we talked to you about two notorious or infamous serial killers,
Speaker 1: and then Ben told us about two notorious terrible world
Speaker 1: leaders or dictators.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's ever heard of those lads.
Speaker 1: We went on to do terrible things, and we had
Speaker 1: kind of we had a lot of discussion around nature
Speaker 1: versus nurture and just the whole psychopathy. I don't even
Speaker 1: know psychopathy. I like you like that word around what
Speaker 1: makes a psychopath? So today we're going to unpack it
Speaker 1: a little bit further. This was originally the one hundredth
Speaker 1: episode of Unsolved Mysteries, and it's not anymore because of
Speaker 1: things we talked about in last week. So in part
Speaker 1: two we're gonna just detour a little bit and kind
Speaker 1: of talk about some different the more fringe I guess.
Speaker 1: And before we get into that, just real quick. Wherever
Speaker 1: you are listening, please make sure to follow, like, subscribe,
Speaker 1: leave us a five star rating and review. Find us
Speaker 1: on social media. We have a Facebook and Instagram and
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Speaker 1: us at Unsolved Coupled Pod at gmail dot com. There
Speaker 1: are a couple of ways you can support the show.
Speaker 1: There is a buy me a Coffee link down below
Speaker 1: which you can send a small little thank you amount
Speaker 1: to us. It Ben and I use to actually continue
Speaker 1: to grow the technology and bring you guys a better,
Speaker 1: more polished show. There is also a subscription feature in
Speaker 1: the link below where you can subscribe to the podcast
Speaker 1: only right now through spreaker However, that does get you
Speaker 1: AD free bonus or ad free episodes. No bonus episodes yet,
Speaker 1: that is TBD on what those are going to look like.
Speaker 1: I thought about actually, and you guys let me know.
Speaker 1: Let me know in the comment section or in reviews.
Speaker 1: I had a thought about doing the new season of
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries that are on Netflix as a subscription only
Speaker 1: bonus access episodes. They are very they're laid out very differently. Anyways,
Speaker 1: let me know. But it does get you for four
Speaker 1: dollars a month. That's only one dollar in episode ad
Speaker 1: free listening. Okay, So and then next week I'll talk
Speaker 1: more about crime con because I'll actually have happened. So
Speaker 1: be here for that. Be here, be here or be square, right,
Speaker 1: that's how it goes. All right, you're ready to dive
Speaker 1: into this my love to the diabolical mind, into a
Speaker 1: diabolical mind. All right, you got your some cap on
Speaker 1: your goggles. We're going to dive in. Robert Stack starts
Speaker 1: us up at the top of this story and says, quote,
Speaker 1: it may not surprise you that ninety five percent of
Speaker 1: all serial killers and mass murderers are men. End quote.
Speaker 1: So we we all know that to be true, But
Speaker 1: what about the rare occasion that we have a female
Speaker 1: serial killer, a female diabolical mane mm hmmm. As one
Speaker 1: expert says in the show, if you're looking for a
Speaker 1: diabolical gender.
Speaker 2: Well, hold on, where's my eminem's?
Speaker 1: Uh, your daughter asked for the eminem's back because you
Speaker 1: stole them and I bought them for her, so she
Speaker 1: got them back. That I'm in the middle of telling
Speaker 1: a story I had eminem's you did sneak snacks onto here?
Speaker 1: I always okay, As one expert says, if you're looking
Speaker 1: for a diabolical gender, it is the male. There are, however,
Speaker 1: a few diabolical women. Typically, these sociopaths conceal their true
Speaker 1: nature behind a veil of tenderness and warmth. And buckle
Speaker 1: up because this story is going to be crazy, all right,
Speaker 1: the wild? It is wild. And i'd actually heard this
Speaker 1: story before listening to it on Unsolved Mysteries, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure last statement aware of this. So Frank and Marie
Speaker 1: Hilly of Anniston, Alabama, were high school sweethearts, with him
Speaker 1: romantically writing letters to her while he did an enlistment
Speaker 1: in the US Navy. When he returned, they married in
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty and welcomed two children into their home. Their
Speaker 1: names were Mike and Carol. They worked together at a
Speaker 1: local foundry, where Frank was a foreman and Marie was
Speaker 1: a secretary. Word appearance, their marriage seemed to embody the
Speaker 1: loving as a loving American couple, so as Keith Morrison
Speaker 1: would say, they were the perfect couple dot dot dot.
Speaker 2: Keith Morrison is a gem.
Speaker 1: He is a gem, He's a scholar and a gentleman.
Speaker 1: Everything would change though for Frank, Mike and Carol started
Speaker 1: to become sick with stomach problems. Mike was only eighteen
Speaker 1: at the time, and he's actually interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries,
Speaker 1: which put a pin in that because you're going to
Speaker 1: realize later that it's crazy. And he recalled that his
Speaker 1: illness began just a few months after life insurance policies
Speaker 1: were purchased on him and Frank and Carol, as well
Speaker 1: as Frank subscribing to a life insurance policy subscribed by
Speaker 1: his employer. So everyone in the family, it seems as
Speaker 1: except for the wife, now have life insurance policies and
Speaker 1: then they get sick with a terrible stomach issue and
Speaker 1: doctors are unable to diagnose these stomach problems. However, Mike
Speaker 1: leaves for college, and when he does, his illness magically vanishes. However,
Speaker 1: things only got worse for Frank because he becomes much,
Speaker 1: much sicker, very rapidly, and at the same time, sadly,
Speaker 1: the Hilly's marriage is starting to fall apart, and the
Speaker 1: main tension in this marriage was money. Frank was being
Speaker 1: hounded by creditors, much of these debts being Marie's responsibility.
Speaker 1: He also came home from work to find her in
Speaker 1: bed with one of his one of their bosses on
Speaker 1: because they worked at the same foundry together. She was
Speaker 1: a secretary and he was a foreman. Whoa, whoa can no,
Speaker 1: they don't have to get Ben's told me some stories
Speaker 1: about just I cannot imagine being anyone in that situation,
Speaker 1: the man, the woman, the husband, the wife. It seems
Speaker 1: like it's a bad, bad, real bad situation. And actually
Speaker 1: the simplest way to not end up in that situation
Speaker 1: would be don't you ding dingman ding? There you go, okay,
Speaker 1: And actually I will tell you this. Mike is interviewed.
Speaker 1: He's the eldest son. He tells us that his dad
Speaker 1: called him after catching his wife and his mother in
Speaker 1: bed with one of the bosses at work, and he's
Speaker 1: distraught over this. He's also been really sick lately, and
Speaker 1: he kind of tells Mike, I think it's just time
Speaker 1: I need to leave your mom and wife, and I
Speaker 1: just want to give you heads up on it. It's
Speaker 1: really ours. I'm not This is not victim blaming at all,
Speaker 1: But if you are going to get a divorce for
Speaker 1: even terrible or unterrible reasons, no matter how old your
Speaker 1: kids are, leave them out of it. But I guess
Speaker 1: in a sense it's actually good because this becomes knowledge
Speaker 1: that not a lot of other people were aware of.
Speaker 1: So in the same time frame, Frank is also continuing
Speaker 1: to see his doctor, who is prescribing him more and
Speaker 1: more and more potent drugs, trying to cure whatever the
Speaker 1: stomach issue is. And during this time, his wife rarely
Speaker 1: leaves his side. In fact, while he was in the hospital.
Speaker 2: Except for hang out with the boss.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well she's got needs, Ben. That was a joke,
Speaker 1: jokes brunch, No where if I know that she's not
Speaker 1: a good person. So in fact, even while he's in
Speaker 1: and out of the hospital, she is making handmade meals
Speaker 1: and bringing it into him and feeding him by hand.
Speaker 1: That's that's so sweet. And here's the thing. Hospital food sucks, right,
Speaker 1: I get it, But maybe not such a good idea
Speaker 1: for other reasons that we're going to find out later.
Speaker 1: So Marie is rarely leaving this man's side and continuing
Speaker 1: to make sure that he also has home cooked meals.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the night, on May twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, he has found prancing around the front
Speaker 1: yard in a state of confusion and delirium and is
Speaker 1: rushed to local hospital, where he showed signs of paranoia
Speaker 1: and jaundice. He passes away within a few hours of
Speaker 1: being admitted to the hospital. The official cause of death
Speaker 1: ends up being hepatitis, which is crazy because hepatitis is
Speaker 1: just not something that you accidentally get. It's insanely that
Speaker 1: they ended up diagnosing him with that. I guess the
Speaker 1: jaundice was probably because jaundace means that your liver's not
Speaker 1: working and you turn orange, right, and that's a sign
Speaker 1: of hepatitis. But yeah, so Marie the sad grieving wife
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be showing the typical signs you might
Speaker 1: see from a grieving widow. She quickly cashes out his
Speaker 1: life insurance, which totaled more than thirty thousand dollars. What
Speaker 1: years this nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: We're looking at over one hundred thousand dollars in today's
Speaker 1: in today's money. With that money, she refurnishes the whole
Speaker 1: house sensible of course, buys a new car as one
Speaker 1: would would, new clothing, and expensive jewelry check and check,
Speaker 1: and also gives her mother a bunch of gifts and
Speaker 1: recently like yeah, I don't know, it doesn't take long.
Speaker 2: She just spends a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and eventually and actually not very long, very quickly
Speaker 1: the money runs out.
Speaker 2: Well, when you buy cars and.
Speaker 1: We only have thirty, yeah, I want to hold onto
Speaker 1: that one. However, her being out of money doesn't really
Speaker 1: seem to stop her behavior, because this was back in
Speaker 1: the good old days where you could write a check
Speaker 1: check and the checks were not verified in the store.
Speaker 1: A few days, eight days checks in the mail. Right,
Speaker 1: she continues spending. So her son and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if she listed him as like a co signer or something,
Speaker 1: or had his Social Security number attached to her accounts
Speaker 1: or her credit cards. But her son starts receiving harassing
Speaker 1: phone call from creditors wanting money from him. Marie promised
Speaker 1: her creditors that her son would pay her debts for
Speaker 1: four years after Frank's death. Carol, then eighteen years old,
Speaker 1: while her mom is spending all this money and going crazy,
Speaker 1: also starts suffering from similar symptoms that her husband and
Speaker 1: older brother had suffered from a few years before. At
Speaker 1: the time, no one had known though, that Marie had
Speaker 1: purchased an additional life insurance policy on her daughter. You
Speaker 1: have a question, ben nop Okay, He looked confused for
Speaker 1: a second. So oldest son moved away at college, husband dead, wife,
Speaker 1: blown through the money, daughter a couple years years older,
Speaker 1: now starting to get sick, secret life insurance policy check
Speaker 1: check check. So shortly after Carol becomes ill, her brother
Speaker 1: returned to Alabama to actually confront his mom about her overspending.
Speaker 1: Because by this time I think he's married and maybe
Speaker 1: as a child, and I don't think creditors are allowed
Speaker 1: to do the kind of stuff that they used to be.
Speaker 1: But back in the eighties and nineties, maybe seventies, the
Speaker 1: creditors were like they would threaten you, harass you, call
Speaker 1: your work. They were the mom. They were like unto
Speaker 1: the mom. And so they are making his life miserable.
Speaker 1: And he demands to go to the bank and cash
Speaker 1: out any funds that they have so that he can
Speaker 1: pay off these creditors and just move on with his life.
Speaker 1: And she promises him that, like, sit down, have a
Speaker 1: good breakfast, and then we will go to the bank.
Speaker 1: So she cooks him a big old breakfast, and with
Speaker 1: in like minutes of finishing breakfast, he becomes extmely ill,
Speaker 1: unable to get out of bed, and is actually able
Speaker 1: to force to like stay in bed for several days
Speaker 1: because he's not even healthy enough to return home to Florida. However,
Speaker 1: he does bounce back and is able to leave. In
Speaker 1: the meantime, though, his younger sister, Carol's condition begins to
Speaker 1: get worse and worse and worse, and she's actually taken
Speaker 1: into the hospital where she eventually becomes paralyzed from the
Speaker 1: waist down. So in the reenactment and in some other
Speaker 1: things I read, she had told her daughter that she
Speaker 1: had gotten like a secret prescription from a doctor or
Speaker 1: nurse friend of hers that was supposed to be these
Speaker 1: injections that were gonna make her better, but she wasn't
Speaker 1: allowed to tell anybody because she wasn't being prescribed. They
Speaker 1: were like being given to her on the like on
Speaker 1: the down low, and was injecting this liquid into her body,
Speaker 1: like into her buttocks, directly poisoning her daughter with this substance.
Speaker 1: So while she's in the hospital, Marie injects her and
Speaker 1: in the buttocks and hips, claiming that it would help her. However,
Speaker 1: it only continues to make things worse. So while her
Speaker 1: daughter's in the hospital, uh, Marie is actually arrested in
Speaker 1: the hospital for passing bad checks, but was bailed out
Speaker 1: of jail by extended relatives of the family. The hospital staff, however,
Speaker 1: in that time, re examines Carol and finds evidence that
Speaker 1: she had been poisoned with arsenic Dun dun dum yep.
Speaker 1: Which is a great play called Arsenic and Old Lace
Speaker 1: about two old ladies who kill people, but again, that's
Speaker 1: a podcast for a different day. In October of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy nine, Frank's body is exhumed for a second optoxy
Speaker 1: and found that he had stripes on his fingernails, which
Speaker 1: like these white lines on his fingernails, which are a
Speaker 1: tailtale sign of arsenic in the body. Do you want
Speaker 1: to know a crazy story? So I went to beauty school,
Speaker 1: and in beauty school, I got fully licensed, right, And
Speaker 1: so we were in the class about nails, and we
Speaker 1: were told because we are not obviously medical people, but
Speaker 1: that if we saw someone come in who had these
Speaker 1: like significant white striping lines on their nails and they
Speaker 1: were complaining about other issues, that we were like to
Speaker 1: encourage them to go to the hospital immediately because that
Speaker 1: was a tailtale sign of poisoning, because it affects your
Speaker 1: nail as it grows out, like it's almost like a
Speaker 1: roadmap that something terrible is happening. But we couldn't tell
Speaker 1: them why they needed to go to the doctor because
Speaker 1: we couldn't diagnose anything.
Speaker 2: But I don't understand. You say, listen, rumor has it
Speaker 2: why stripes on nails? It's linked to our snake poison.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you've been poisoned by our snak, but
Speaker 2: you might want to get it checked out.
Speaker 1: We weren't allowed to say that, but we were allowed
Speaker 1: to say that, hey, sometimes this can indicate an underlining
Speaker 1: health issue. It might be worth your time to go
Speaker 1: check it out. Akay, go to the emergency room right now.
Speaker 1: So Carol is also fine to have those exact same
Speaker 1: lines on her fingernails and is admitted to the hospital
Speaker 1: on January eleventh, nineteen eighty and an arrest warrant was
Speaker 1: issued charging Marie with Frank's murder. However, you guys, buckle up,
Speaker 1: because she is gone. She is nowhere to be found.
Speaker 2: I'm just now remembering the second part of the second part.
Speaker 1: Of It's diabolical, as one might.
Speaker 2: Say, I am not I am not laughing about her,
Speaker 2: but this is it is the next part of this story.
Speaker 1: Is insane. The murder, murder of your daughter is not
Speaker 1: the craziest part of this story, because we're going to
Speaker 1: actually find out that within the scope of two years,
Speaker 1: her mother, mother in law, and her husband all died
Speaker 1: of similar circumstances. Serial killer, and now she's suspected of poisoning.
Speaker 1: You know what, people, She is a diabolic, diabolical mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, diabolical, and I'm I'm trying to say diabolical as
Speaker 2: many times as robertstac did. Diabolical.
Speaker 1: Add in the fact that she also is accused of poisoning,
Speaker 1: attempted poisoning, well, poisoning, attempt to murder her son and daughter, mother,
Speaker 1: mother in law, husband, son, and daughter, five of the
Speaker 1: closest people in her life. Okay, so Carol's maternal and
Speaker 1: paternal grandparents also had autopsies where Arsenick was found, but
Speaker 1: it was concluded that they had both died of cancer.
Speaker 1: So there's a belief that she'd actually tried to murder
Speaker 1: her grandparents as well. This woman gives no f's and
Speaker 1: she's gone nowhere to be found. They cannot find this woman.
Speaker 1: She's on the lamb. She's on the lamb. However, nineteen eight,
Speaker 1: she resurfaces in Florida under the name of Lindsey Robbie
Speaker 1: Hannan and meets a man named John Homan. And during
Speaker 1: this time where she meets him, she claims that she's
Speaker 1: widowed with two children who also died in a school
Speaker 1: bus accident, and that she is on the verge of
Speaker 1: inheriting a large estate from the state of Texas and
Speaker 1: claimed that she also unfortunately had brain cancer and a
Speaker 1: rare disease where her body made too many red blood cells,
Speaker 1: so she might not live much longer, and these two
Speaker 1: begin dating, and by May of nineteen eighty one, they're married.
Speaker 1: She starts to work as a secretary, and in September
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty two, she claims that her cancer had
Speaker 1: worsened and that she needed to fly back to Texas
Speaker 1: for treatment. So she leaves her new husband flies back
Speaker 1: to Texas, and a short time later, her new husband,
Speaker 1: John gets a call from a woman named Terry. Terry
Speaker 1: informs John that his wife had died of cancer, but
Speaker 1: that she is the twin sister and that her sister's
Speaker 1: wishes were her body be donated to research or something
Speaker 1: like science. And John is obviously distraught his brand new
Speaker 1: wife succumbed to her cancer when he thought she was
Speaker 1: going to Texas for treatments and she's never to return.
Speaker 1: And he only is informed by this by his wife's
Speaker 1: twin sister. They had no idea about, okay, so, seeing
Speaker 1: his distraught behavior and his emotions spiraling out of control
Speaker 1: buckala mm hmm, Robbie says that like she would keep
Speaker 1: in touch with him and they could kind of get
Speaker 1: to know each other through this grieving process, and so
Speaker 1: over the next little while they do they have phone communications.
Speaker 1: She tells him about that you know, there's no funeral,
Speaker 1: that he doesn't need to come here, that her body's
Speaker 1: been donated to a university. And they chat and they
Speaker 1: chat and they chat, and after a little bit of
Speaker 1: time of getting to know each other through the phone,
Speaker 1: he expresses a desire to meet his deceived wife's twin sister,
Speaker 1: and she agrees and suggests that they actually meet up
Speaker 1: in Florida. So she shows up in Florida as Terry.
Speaker 1: She lost a bunch of weight, gotten into really good shape.
Speaker 1: And that's just the terms that they use on unsolved mysteries,
Speaker 1: and the actrees in the in the play or in
Speaker 1: the reenactment had a very terrible wig on. But from
Speaker 1: my understanding, she had a very terrible blonde like box coloring,
Speaker 1: like a terrible blonde hair job.
Speaker 2: She's a blonde now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So she's lost weight, gets into good shape, dyes
Speaker 1: her hair blonde, and goes to Florida to meet John.
Speaker 1: And when John sees this girl, he's taken aback because
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, did I fail to mention that we
Speaker 1: were identical twins? But I'm the hotter, blonde, skinnier in shape.
Speaker 1: Version of my sister.
Speaker 2: Let's just be clear. She doesn't have a twin sister.
Speaker 2: It's the same lady.
Speaker 1: I yes, this is crazy.
Speaker 2: She faked her death, yeah, and then went back to
Speaker 2: the husband who.
Speaker 1: Then dates her. They start dating and she, like foll on,
Speaker 1: moves in with him. Now, mind you, he also he's
Speaker 1: a victim in this. But he bought hook line and sinker.
Speaker 1: Then his wife went to Florida for treatment for cancer. Texas, Texas,
Speaker 1: That's what I meant, and did not have a funeral
Speaker 1: and body was donated to science, and then was gullible
Speaker 1: enough to believe that this was her twin sister.
Speaker 2: I'm not putting a lot on this guy. This lady
Speaker 2: is wild. I guess what I'm saying is why that is.
Speaker 1: The million dollars?
Speaker 2: Why this is because here's the thing, there's one thing
Speaker 2: to try to kill your family that makes you an
Speaker 2: evil human being.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you had a motive for money, which is not
Speaker 1: justifying it, but there was at least.
Speaker 2: That makes you a murderer. Yes, this is not murder.
Speaker 2: This is just something weird and crazy or diabolical as
Speaker 2: some might say, as Robert Stack would say, diabolical.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I know, at least from what they do.
Speaker 1: I'm giving you. She doesn't try to true. I could
Speaker 1: have got a full Ted Bundy slash of John Wayne
Speaker 1: Gacy on this woman and I didn't. It's wild, I know.
Speaker 1: So I will say this is where I struggle with John,
Speaker 1: because Terry takes a job as a secretary at the
Speaker 1: exact same employer that her quote dead sister was working at,
Speaker 1: and co workers immediately see what's happening like immediately, multiple
Speaker 1: people within their inner circle and their work circle say
Speaker 1: no freaking way, this is all a lie, and that
Speaker 1: is the same person, and they bring those concerns to John.
Speaker 1: He's a grieving man. I can't put a lot on John.
Speaker 1: They are concerned that he's following for a con woman
Speaker 1: and warned him about this relationship. She is unable to
Speaker 1: produce a death certificate for her twin sister, and their
Speaker 1: suspicions are proven right because local police get involved and
Speaker 1: they research, and they also fail to find an obituary
Speaker 1: for this woman in any of the newspapers in Texas
Speaker 1: in the timeframe of her death, and any place where
Speaker 1: Robbie's body was quote donated to a medical research It
Speaker 1: just didn't exist. And when Terry was taken in on suspicion,
Speaker 1: she tells she's positively identified as Aubrey or sorry, Audrey Hilly,
Speaker 1: who's wanted for murder and writing bad checks. So the
Speaker 1: police figure out who she is. She's not even the
Speaker 1: She's not Terry, she's not Robbie. She is Audrey. And
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty three, Marie was returned, was arrested and
Speaker 1: returned to Alabama, where she was sentenced to life in
Speaker 1: prison for Frank's murder. In February of nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 1: she fall on escapes prison. We've covered a few escapes before.
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy also escaped prison a few times. However, her
Speaker 1: freedom is short lived, you guys. This is what we
Speaker 1: call karma. While she has escaped during that time frame,
Speaker 1: she develops hypothermia because she had escaped into the back
Speaker 1: the wild back countries the winter months, and one week
Speaker 1: after her escape, on February twenty six, she makes her
Speaker 1: way into her hometown of Blue Mountain, Alabama, and attempted
Speaker 1: to enlist the aid of a schoolmate to harbor her
Speaker 1: as a fugitive. However, this schoolmate friend thought her like
Speaker 1: had not seen her since elementary school had failed to
Speaker 1: identify her as Marie and instead leaving her to be
Speaker 1: a transient woman who suffered hypothermia and was like under
Speaker 1: some sort of like crazy spell. Calls nine to one one.
Speaker 1: This woman, Marie Audrey whatever, Robbie, Terry, whatever she goes by,
Speaker 1: literally dies almost immediately after is picked up from the
Speaker 1: ambulance due to prolonged exposure to the cold. And she
Speaker 1: was only fifty three years old. This is what she died,
Speaker 1: the hypothermia after her escape. Where have you been the
Speaker 1: last three minutes I've been telling you this story.
Speaker 2: Well, I've been listening. I just didn't realize she died
Speaker 2: from hypothermia.
Speaker 1: That's wild from her escape attempt. Yeah, she like escaped
Speaker 1: through There's a whole podcast on this, and I can't
Speaker 1: even remember which one. There's several on this. But she
Speaker 1: like like lived that week long time in the middle
Speaker 1: of winter in the mountains trying to get back to
Speaker 1: her hometown like cross country did, and she came down
Speaker 1: with hypothermia and it killed her. She did not succeed,
Speaker 1: But this is what I have a question about. She
Speaker 1: ends up being buried next to Frank, the husband that
Speaker 1: she murdered. Is that weird. Yes, but okay, I don't
Speaker 1: how did we get there? I have a lot of
Speaker 1: questions about that.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was the son and daughter saying, listen, my
Speaker 2: mom was a terrible person. This happened, but this was
Speaker 2: my family. Let's just lay it the rest and be
Speaker 2: done with it.
Speaker 1: Possibly, I don't know. I just have a lot of questions.
Speaker 1: I hope Frank is haunting. This is out of it.
Speaker 2: If you poison me, I don't want you buried.
Speaker 1: Next to me. Well, if you poison me, I don't
Speaker 1: want you buried next to me either. So you guys,
Speaker 1: that is it? That? That is one example of a
Speaker 1: diabolical female of the five.
Speaker 2: Percent diabolical woman mind.
Speaker 1: So see not all men, but ninety five percent of
Speaker 1: the time it is a man. There is a lady
Speaker 1: on Instagram who goes up to men and this is
Speaker 1: like a rage bait thing. I totally get it. She's
Speaker 1: dressed super cute, she's very pretty and petite, and she
Speaker 1: goes up with her little microphone and she asks men,
Speaker 1: why are men the way that they are? And what
Speaker 1: is very telling is that so far ninety something percent
Speaker 1: of the men that she interviews ended up like full
Speaker 1: on like getting very aggressive with her for asking that question.
Speaker 1: She's like, all right, point proven, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I have a good afternoon. All right, But that is
Speaker 1: my story, isn't that? That is an insane story.
Speaker 2: It's wild.
Speaker 1: She is suspected to have attempted to murder her both
Speaker 1: of her grandparents, her mother in law, her mother, her husband,
Speaker 1: and attempted to poison her children, then condomand into marrying him.
Speaker 1: Her faked her own death, came back as her twin sister, like,
Speaker 1: why did you go back? Dude? That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: That was the weirdest part of the whole story is
Speaker 1: It's not like this guy was like some uber uber wealthy.
Speaker 1: I think he was comfortable, but not like insane.
Speaker 2: Well, but she portrayed that she was the wealthy.
Speaker 1: One exactly why I don't know, and then escaped prison
Speaker 1: to die of hypothermia. It's crazy. Wow, psychopath. Okay, Ben,
Speaker 1: are you going to get into the interview? I can
Speaker 1: get into the interview now.
Speaker 2: I want to do that after.
Speaker 1: I'll do it after. Why don't you tell us?
Speaker 2: This is the only unsolved mystery of this episode.
Speaker 1: And Ben's not happy about it. He misses the.
Speaker 2: I'll miss anything about this show. But when you advertise
Speaker 2: it one way.
Speaker 1: The unsolved mysteries, Why are people terrible? Why do certain
Speaker 1: people do terrible things? That is the unsolved mysteries. There
Speaker 1: is no answer exactly, so it's still technically an unsolved mystery.
Speaker 1: There's no update on that. All right, all right here,
Speaker 1: this is a terrible story too. This I hate this
Speaker 1: story because it is so terrible. It makes me very sad.
Speaker 1: May twenty sixth, nineteen eighty nine, we get told of
Speaker 1: Joan Rogers, her daughter Michelle seventeen, and their daughter Christy fourteen.
Speaker 1: They left their farm in Ohio to go on vacation
Speaker 1: in Florida, all right, and they made multiple stops. They
Speaker 1: stopped along the way. They went to a zoo, and
Speaker 1: they also went to Disney World and Epcot Center, is
Speaker 1: how Robert Stack tells us. Not worth it.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you've never been, go once, you go once,
Speaker 2: you're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of Epcot disney World is cut's better now than
Speaker 1: it was at this point. It was pretty boring. I
Speaker 1: don't think at this point there was like even I
Speaker 1: think there was one ride. Now there's the Red Chuy
Speaker 1: ride that is an awesome is an awesome ride, and
Speaker 1: the Frozen ride was really cool as well. I don't
Speaker 1: think I went on did go on that one? Actually?
Speaker 1: I think at one point I took a group of
Speaker 1: our nieces and nephews like an all don't went.
Speaker 2: All right. So but they arrived in Tampa on June first,
Speaker 2: which was a Thursday. How Rogers, the husband tells us Listen,
Speaker 2: they were supposed to be home on he said, anywhere
Speaker 2: between Saturday and Monday. But they didn't call, he says.
Speaker 2: When they hadn't returned home by Monday or by Tuesday,
Speaker 2: he calls and reports the missing.
Speaker 1: He says.
Speaker 2: At first he he calls her mom. She hasn't heard.
Speaker 2: So now he's worried. He reports a missing So.
Speaker 1: Because this is before cell phones and long since phone
Speaker 1: calls from a hotel.
Speaker 2: Room, you probably called once.
Speaker 1: Maybe, so even if you decided to extend your trip,
Speaker 1: I am sure when you left you didn't have a
Speaker 1: necessary firm date of being home. But also like, I
Speaker 1: can only imagine how this went where it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: day one, they you're kind of worried.
Speaker 2: But he said, and he hadn't heard, so he was
Speaker 2: like it was kind of weird. That he hadn't heard anything.
Speaker 2: They hadn't called it.
Speaker 1: It's not like them, yeah, but he also not like
Speaker 1: the biggest one.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't. It wasn't we will be home Saturday now,
Speaker 2: So they didn't show up. He's like, well, they must
Speaker 2: be coming home today. They don't anyways, So unfortunately, on
Speaker 2: the same day that he reports the missing three bodies,
Speaker 2: three women's bodies are found floating on the surface of
Speaker 2: Tampa Bay. Each had been bound with tape and weighed
Speaker 2: down with cinderblocks. I found that they were cinderblocks tied
Speaker 2: around their heads like, their necks like and they had
Speaker 2: been dumped in the bay still alive.
Speaker 1: What. Yes, they left that out unsolved mystery.
Speaker 2: No, I got that from unsolved.
Speaker 1: Miss must have missed that part. That's terrible.
Speaker 2: And all three had been sexually assaulted. So we get
Speaker 2: Robert Stacked.
Speaker 1: A mom and her daughters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a psychopathic killer on our hands. I
Speaker 2: would agree with that statement. This is a diabolical person.
Speaker 2: Whoever has done this. We get the man Jack Levine.
Speaker 2: He has a PhD in something. He says this quote.
Speaker 2: I found it interesting. He says male serial killers are
Speaker 2: so difficult to apprehend they kill strangers, unknown motive, no
Speaker 2: crime scene. Usually there's a crime scene, no crime scene,
Speaker 2: no fingerprints, no other physical evidence. Usually only a dump sight.
Speaker 2: And that is the modus operanda of the male serial killer.
Speaker 1: Actually it's not at all.
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I was saying, incorrect. They do
Speaker 2: leave evidence. Yeah, there is a crime scene, not maybe all.
Speaker 2: Like here's the thing, yes, this one. The crime scene
Speaker 2: is the water, which leaves literally nothing. And here's the
Speaker 2: I mean, they were technically killed in the water, but
Speaker 2: something else.
Speaker 1: He murdered them in his home. His home was a
Speaker 1: crime scene. Like, there is a crime scene.
Speaker 2: Someone ted Bunny killed those girls in the sorority place. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was a crime scene. He left evidence. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I'm just when he says this, he like states it
Speaker 2: like this is all serial killers. There's no crime scene,
Speaker 2: there's no evidence, social fingerprints. The way he says it,
Speaker 2: it's like no male serial killer will ever be caught.
Speaker 1: Actually, most serial killers that at least have been caught
Speaker 1: make pretty big errors. It's just time and technology catching
Speaker 1: up with them. Yeah. So yeah, the Long Irish Long
Speaker 1: Island serial killer, like he just pled guilty. They left
Speaker 1: a ton of evidence. That makes no sense.
Speaker 2: So anyways, that was my quote, So sorry, I'm turning
Speaker 2: read mintos. They say, we get an FBI analysts and
Speaker 2: here we get the police. So like, this is all
Speaker 2: the tell signs of a psychopathic killer. There's very little evidence,
Speaker 2: and so without any evidence, then they just try to
Speaker 2: like put a profile together, and it's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously they don't really have anything to go on. These
Speaker 2: women are from out of town, so and they're I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're found in the water, so there is no like
Speaker 2: crime scene. But obviously they knew they were sexually assaulted,
Speaker 2: so there's something.
Speaker 1: There's some kind of evidence there, and now the profile
Speaker 1: is going to be important. I think at the time
Speaker 1: that this was shot and filmed, this sort of profiling
Speaker 1: was it was kind of a new thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was up and coming, all right. Tampa was
Speaker 2: their final stop. So we get this FBI profiler Jjan Batty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she says this was so early on in
Speaker 1: this field for her to have made her way into that, like,
Speaker 1: and she was looking fierce while she was interviewed. She
Speaker 1: looks awesome. I was here for it. I was a
Speaker 1: big fan of this lady.
Speaker 2: She tells us that they were victims of opportunity, because
Speaker 2: there's really no way to like pre plan this, right,
Speaker 2: he saw it, knew what he wanted to do, and
Speaker 2: he had to act in some way. He maybe planned
Speaker 2: a little bit, but there's no way of knowing. Due
Speaker 2: to their sporadic travel, there was no way to know
Speaker 2: it that they would be there and that he would
Speaker 2: have this opportunity at this time.
Speaker 1: The crime was planned, the victims.
Speaker 2: Were not so, and he probably just saw an opportunity
Speaker 2: to do that. Yeah. Anyways, so June eighth, the Rogers
Speaker 2: car was found at a boat ramp near the motel,
Speaker 2: and in the vehicle there was a note and it
Speaker 2: was like on a pamphlet, and there was and there
Speaker 2: was something written on the pamphlet and what was written
Speaker 2: was directions to the boat ramp and to meet someone there,
Speaker 2: and it just says something with blue and white. And
Speaker 2: so they believe that they got lured to the boat
Speaker 2: ramp and they were looking for a white and blue boat,
Speaker 2: and that they got lured there under fall pre false
Speaker 2: pretenses for an innocent boat ride, and possibly that's that
Speaker 2: they cut on this boat.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a great assumption.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's I think it's a safe they're tourist.
Speaker 1: Someone probably offered to take them on some into the
Speaker 1: bay and why not that sounds great? Yep. And again
Speaker 1: literally like a trustworthy person and you show up and
Speaker 1: there's a blue and white boat about being a boy
Speaker 1: to boom.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that is one thing the FBI profile this
Speaker 2: is like he was probably pleasing to look at all, right,
Speaker 2: Glenn Pale.
Speaker 1: Glenn Peal's more than pleasing to look at. So what
Speaker 1: we call eye candy. If you're into that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you I have the update. He's
Speaker 2: not anyways. Uh So that's really why it's so a mystery,
Speaker 2: because they really don't have anything to go off of.
Speaker 2: So are you ready for your updake?
Speaker 1: Give us an update? Please solved? Thank goodness, because my
Speaker 1: heart just breaks with this husband who just.
Speaker 2: Like sent his he was he was a suspect at
Speaker 2: one point was he really? But he was cleared obviously.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness. I mean it's always the husband, but I
Speaker 1: just my heartbreaks that this man sent his wife and
Speaker 1: daughters off. I'm going to guess he couldn't get off
Speaker 1: work or if they had a farm or something. He
Speaker 1: had other things, responsibilities. He sends them off for a
Speaker 1: good time. They were teenage girls in an adult female.
Speaker 1: They're allowed to go out by themselves and do things, and.
Speaker 2: Then they never even want to tell you. The saddest
Speaker 2: part of this story.
Speaker 1: Okay, was he going to go with them and then
Speaker 1: something happened? No, she was pregnant. No.
Speaker 2: So his brother was a sesson and was in jail.
Speaker 2: He bailed him out before he knew. He wasn't in
Speaker 2: jail for something, but he'd done something else and he'd
Speaker 2: bailed him out. The mother took the two girls on
Speaker 2: vacation to get away because it had just come to
Speaker 2: light that his brother had sexually assaulted their youngest daughter. Oh,
Speaker 2: the dad didn't know at the.
Speaker 1: Time, so they find this out after he bails his
Speaker 1: brother out. He finds out that his brother had done
Speaker 1: this terrible thing. So the mom takes the girls to
Speaker 1: kind of just let's get out, let's focus on something
Speaker 1: else for a little while.
Speaker 2: Yep, at least that was some of the stuff i'd read.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, So the guilt that that husband must
Speaker 1: have felt.
Speaker 2: Well, and I don't want to say.
Speaker 1: Not in a bad way, but like him not knowing
Speaker 1: this obviously he's a victim as well, but thinking because
Speaker 1: I did this, it triggered the chain of events of
Speaker 1: my wife and daughters needing a break to get out
Speaker 1: of this situation. This is a common thing that people
Speaker 1: do in life. Is really hard or something terrible happens,
Speaker 1: is let's get out, let's take a beat, let's do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so to think that if he had never done that,
Speaker 1: what could have been?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know this timeline. It just
Speaker 2: appeared that his brother wasn't a very good person. It
Speaker 2: looked like he got arrested for something. He was just
Speaker 2: trying to be a brother to help him out. As
Speaker 2: time goes on, I don't know if it was right
Speaker 2: after that or what. As time goes on, things come
Speaker 2: about that this had supposedly happened. The mom takes the
Speaker 2: two girls and it's like, you know what, we're going
Speaker 2: to get away. Dad's like yeah, go ahead, head they go,
Speaker 2: and then this terrible thing happens to him. So I
Speaker 2: found out it wasn't from unsold histories. The police really
Speaker 2: did try. They ended up they didn't have any leads,
Speaker 2: so they put the handwriting the note on the brochure
Speaker 2: the directions they like, enlarge it and put it on
Speaker 2: billboards all over Florida. A neighbor who'd hired a guy
Speaker 2: to do work and it had like some type of
Speaker 2: like order, recognized the handwriting, called it in and there
Speaker 2: was a palm print on that brochure. The police matched
Speaker 2: the palm print and arrested and charged manned by the
Speaker 2: name of Oba Chandler older gentlemen, and he's a douche.
Speaker 2: He was a bad personally, all right, Like he'd been
Speaker 2: committing crimes and all kinds of things, robbery, all that
Speaker 2: and a lot of his life. Hughes charged and convicted
Speaker 2: a first degree murder and sentenced to death and was
Speaker 2: executed on March fift No, I'm sorry November fifteenth, twenty
Speaker 2: and eleven. His last words were, you're executing an innocent man.
Speaker 1: No, we're not. You are a loser, goodbye. No he
Speaker 1: was not.
Speaker 2: In February of twenty fourteen, DNA linked him to the
Speaker 2: murder of i've Lesi Burios Bergerios. I'm very sorry that
Speaker 2: I boxed that name. I am sorry. She was a
Speaker 2: twenty year old found dead November twenty seventh, nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: so you spend linked to four more. That's just the four.
Speaker 2: There's no way this man didn't kill more people.
Speaker 1: Sexually assaulted all three of these women, at least those
Speaker 1: three a mom and her two daughters while they were
Speaker 1: alive and could witness it. And then you tied a
Speaker 1: central block around their heads and their arms in the
Speaker 1: lee threw them into the ocean alive. Yeah. Terrible, Yeah, monster, diabolical.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that neighbor like paid attention. Pretty awesome, because
Speaker 1: I like, there are times I'm like, I don't think
Speaker 1: it paid attention enough to say this.
Speaker 2: I saw them now. I looked at it because I
Speaker 2: was curious, like.
Speaker 1: They're really distinct or somehow really.
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, it's handwriting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I know what your handwriting like, and our
Speaker 1: kids if.
Speaker 2: Someone asked me who someone I even I I deal
Speaker 2: with here and there regularly. But obviously, like we live
Speaker 2: in a world where.
Speaker 1: We don't write write anything anymore, right, so.
Speaker 2: It's it's a little different. But just to be able
Speaker 2: to like see that and then think of that and
Speaker 2: put it together.
Speaker 1: Well, handwriting, like analysis is now considered like junk science
Speaker 1: because it's not super credible, but at the time it
Speaker 1: had more weight to it. But I think the thing
Speaker 1: that's important is that that was just the gateway into
Speaker 1: them getting a suspect. He wasn't convicted based on that alone. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Florida doesn't mess around. Dude, death sentence, you are gone, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: I was I hate. I hate that. That was his
Speaker 1: last words. No you're not dude, you are a terrible
Speaker 1: human being.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously he appealed, but it was Governor Rick Scott,
Speaker 2: I want to say, signed his death one.
Speaker 1: Goodbye You're out. Yeah. Okay, all right, guys, Well before
Speaker 1: I jump into our last story, I'm going to read
Speaker 1: you a couple of our five star rating and reviews.
Speaker 1: You may leave these on Apple Podcasts, I think is
Speaker 1: the best place to do it. However, if you are
Speaker 1: on Spotify, you can leave a five star rating and
Speaker 1: then you can go in and you can comment under
Speaker 1: the episode and I will be reading those as well
Speaker 1: as they kind of roll in. So let me pull
Speaker 1: these up. Okay. So the title of the review says,
Speaker 1: bring on the Nostalgia. Five stars and this is from
Speaker 1: c c J. Love this revisit to a show that
Speaker 1: was such an integral part of my childhood. Such a
Speaker 1: fun way to transport back to a simpler time with
Speaker 1: the unsolved couple. Thank you CCJ. All right, binge able
Speaker 1: and the headline of the or the name under the
Speaker 1: review is Sierra Reid. Absolutely love them. I have listened
Speaker 1: since episode five and can't get enough, always waiting for
Speaker 1: the next episode. Well, thank you, Sierra Reid. Episode five
Speaker 1: that was still when we were pretty green and pretty rough.
Speaker 1: So you are an OG fan and we really appreciate
Speaker 1: you sticking around with us in our early days because
Speaker 1: I do recognize that we were literally recording in a
Speaker 1: closet in the middle of the summer with zero clue
Speaker 1: of what we were doing with equipment that we bought
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Okay, last one I read from today is
Speaker 1: from Pop Tots and Role pop Tots n' Roll. Good name,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. Title of the review it's love
Speaker 1: five stars. Body of the review that is all love it.
Speaker 1: Smiley face with heart eye emojis there you go? All right,
Speaker 1: make sure that you comment or leave a review so
Speaker 1: that I can read it aloud for all to hear.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, the next thing on this episode
Speaker 1: recap a little out of order, is we are given
Speaker 1: an interview, and I will read what Robert Stack says
Speaker 1: to you. Says quote for a close up look at
Speaker 1: the baffling a stigma of such a personality unself mysteries
Speaker 1: traveled to northern California to interview convicted murderer Daniel Walker.
Speaker 1: Now he's not a serial killer. Walker is, though, without
Speaker 1: a doubt, a diabolical mind. At the time of the interview,
Speaker 1: Daniel Walker was probably the only prisoner in California with
Speaker 1: his own courthouse works base, including a computer privileges resulting
Speaker 1: from a lawsuit against the state prison system. End quote. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we're going to get a little backstory. Over a
Speaker 1: three year period, Walker was driven several times a week
Speaker 1: to the Alamina County Courthouse, where he still to this
Speaker 1: day at the time of the interview, is preparing more lawsuits.
Speaker 1: It seems like his favorite thing to do against judges,
Speaker 1: district attorneys, journalist and correction officers. He is almost as
Speaker 1: much trouble, as Robert tells us, in prison as he
Speaker 1: was out. Now, I will say the little stretch on
Speaker 1: that one, because he was murdering people outside of prison
Speaker 1: and inside prison. He's just an inconvenience outside of prison murderer.
Speaker 1: Daniel Walker was a prison as an inmate who actually
Speaker 1: escaped from prison in nineteen seventy three while serving time
Speaker 1: for robbery and attempted murder. Several months after his escape,
Speaker 1: he murdered a television executive named William Ashlock in California,
Speaker 1: then proceeded to rape his fiance while repeatingly proclaiming his
Speaker 1: love for her. After the murder, he then forced her
Speaker 1: to help him cover up the crime. We do not
Speaker 1: get a backstory on this just in this episode of
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries, but it seems like this man, yeah has
Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack in that story. I didn't
Speaker 1: get into it because of time. So he's later arrested
Speaker 1: for William's murder. Mind you, this is only this is
Speaker 1: after he's escaped already once and is still like out
Speaker 1: being escaped. However, he claimed that he was innocent and
Speaker 1: that the mafia had actually killed William, and he decided,
Speaker 1: of course too was this something we see a lot
Speaker 1: with narcissist and with psychopaths. He was going to self
Speaker 1: represent in court. I love when these idiots do that
Speaker 1: because they think that they are the smartest man in
Speaker 1: the room.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem like it worked and didn't I'm shocked by that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was ultimately convicted of the murder and sentenced
Speaker 1: to seventeen years to life in prison. So, during his
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries interview with an FBI investigator named Robert Wrestler,
Speaker 1: he showed signs of being a quote diabolical mind, a
Speaker 1: theory that proselyates some people are unable to difference between
Speaker 1: right and wrong, or told he the Daniel, the guy
Speaker 1: that's interviewed, talked lengthy about his rap sheet, bragging about
Speaker 1: his crimes that he had committed but yet to have
Speaker 1: been charged with. He also bragged about his escape attempts
Speaker 1: and his overall life in prison. He also mentioned that him,
Speaker 1: his crimes and his life in prison are very similar
Speaker 1: actually to the police, and that they have a lot
Speaker 1: in common. So the FBI, the guy that's interviewing, does
Speaker 1: tell us like that is actually something a lot of
Speaker 1: psychopathry to do. They try to like connect with people
Speaker 1: on these things, even if they don't make any sense,
Speaker 1: And so I wrote.
Speaker 2: Down I thought it was interested. He would say something like, hey,
Speaker 2: these people, they always try to do this, and then
Speaker 2: they would literally cut to this guy and he will
Speaker 2: literally do that.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say the name, but you know
Speaker 1: exactly who this reminded me of, didn't you. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Ben knows we knew someone in our life like this.
Speaker 1: So I wrote down just one of the questions as
Speaker 1: an example. So the FBI guy says, quote, you have
Speaker 1: had so many opportunities to stay out of jail, and
Speaker 1: yet you keep coming back in. Walker. Well, then again,
Speaker 1: you see prison, You see prison as not being successful,
Speaker 1: and just because you're in prison doesn't mean that you
Speaker 1: can't be successful. I think Solonski said the greatest freedom
Speaker 1: that a man enjoys is being in prison, because they
Speaker 1: feed you breakfast in the morning. You can go out
Speaker 1: and kill one of your cellmates and they'll still feed
Speaker 1: you lunch and give you a sheet for your bed
Speaker 1: that evening. Yeah, this, I mean this guy CAUs do
Speaker 1: no wrong, and he's like rationalizing that actually almost like
Speaker 1: it was his choice that life in prison is actually
Speaker 1: really good. So also this up kind of the read. Molloy,
Speaker 1: who is a forensic psychologist who's also interviewed throughout this
Speaker 1: episode of Unsolved Mysteries, said it best about a man
Speaker 1: like Walker, and many men who are narcissistic, who think
Speaker 1: that those smartest man in the room were actually they're idiots,
Speaker 1: said quote, he will come up with very elaborate explanations that,
Speaker 1: when thought about carefully, make zero sense. I think that
Speaker 1: that could literally be the basis. Like you and I
Speaker 1: were talking about in episode one, politicians, like all of
Speaker 1: these people with narcissistic tendency, personality disorders, or psychology or
Speaker 1: psychopathic traits, the moment any of their word solid is
Speaker 1: under a microscope, it falls apart instantly, because at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, while they might be smart in
Speaker 1: some aspects, they are idiots. I could not stand this
Speaker 1: man that they were interviewing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he I think the point is is
Speaker 2: to hate him. Yes, and you do if you watch this, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you do hate him. What I do find funny he
Speaker 2: says that quote, how about you take the prisons. And
Speaker 2: what made me think is we see this in the
Speaker 2: world constantly. Now people take something that's in moral completely wrong,
Speaker 2: and they worded in a way where people are like,
Speaker 2: he has a point. I'm like, no, no, no, he
Speaker 2: doesn't use your freaking brain. Yeah, you're an idiot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The entire interview guys I actually had to watch
Speaker 1: it like three or four times because the man speaking,
Speaker 1: the FBI agent is like asking questions, he's not answering
Speaker 1: him their words salad. They don't make it since they
Speaker 1: all tied back around to like how he's actually either
Speaker 1: the victim, but he's also like the savior of the
Speaker 1: situation or he has succeeded succeeded and we are actually
Speaker 1: the idiots. And I'm like, I've been in this conversation
Speaker 1: with a couple of men in my life and they
Speaker 1: are they have the most punishable faces ever. Anyways, So
Speaker 1: I did finding this out after the interview because they
Speaker 1: mentioned something about this after this actual interview, but I
Speaker 1: think before the episode aired, Walker is like gets in
Speaker 1: trouble for attempting to ship poison to him. He ordered
Speaker 1: some poison while in prison in an attempt to kill
Speaker 1: a deputy district attorney that had prosecuted him. Although the
Speaker 1: attempt failed, time was added to a sentence for this. Okay.
Speaker 1: I looked up what has been happening since the interview
Speaker 1: of Unsolved Mysteries, and here's what I have.
Speaker 2: All right, so we're an update update.
Speaker 1: So, according to the CDCR, Walker to this day as
Speaker 1: of yesterday when I did this research, May twenty third,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, remains behind bars as inmate B five
Speaker 1: four five seven oh. He was last denied parole in
Speaker 1: September of twenty twenty five. He is currently ninety four years.
Speaker 2: Old, as impressively as that old, and still in jail.
Speaker 1: They are like cockroaches. Men like this are cockroaches. They
Speaker 1: no one wants them around, but they always seem to
Speaker 1: show up and you cannot get rid of them no
Speaker 1: matter how much you try. So, yeah, I was in
Speaker 1: like this. Yeah, I could say a lot about this guy,
Speaker 1: but that would be actually be wasting my time and
Speaker 1: energy with him. He is an idiot, He's a douchebag.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of where guys like like. We wrap
Speaker 1: up season four, episode twenty three of Unsolved Mysteries, So
Speaker 1: I hope that you guys enjoyed our two part recap
Speaker 1: of this. I know last week's episode ran a little long.
Speaker 1: I kind of got a little carried away with talking
Speaker 1: to Ben about some of the the original story are
Speaker 1: the you know, the first part of the episode of
Speaker 1: telling Ben, because as you guys know, Ben doesn't know
Speaker 1: a lot about true crime, so I was excited to
Speaker 1: kind of tell him some of the insane stories that
Speaker 1: opened the gateway for things like criminal profiling and just
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that we've learned since the seventies
Speaker 1: and eighties, basically because the human study of some of
Speaker 1: these terrible men that did terrible things. So, yeah, crazy
Speaker 1: story about that woman, terrible interview and then that awful
Speaker 1: story about that women and her children. But I'm glad
Speaker 1: that they found out who did it. Yes, yeah, I
Speaker 1: am too. Okay. For those of you guys who don't
Speaker 1: want to hang out much longer, you are welcome next
Speaker 1: to stage right. And for the rest of you guys,
Speaker 1: here is your crazy question for Ben, Ben, how many
Speaker 1: forward roles could you do in an emergency situation?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Yeah, forward roles like head over.
Speaker 2: But I know what a forward role is. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I've done a forward role in twenty years
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 1: Yes, emergency situation, how many do you think you could
Speaker 1: bust out? I'm older, I.
Speaker 2: I if you put me like, I could do a lot.
Speaker 1: I was prose to the grindstone.
Speaker 2: I was a pretty good forward roller. But I'm pretty certain.
Speaker 1: Pretty good forward roller thirty years ago, like.
Speaker 2: Thirty minutes ago. Okay, I think after about four or
Speaker 2: five I would be so dizzy.
Speaker 1: I have jopped that. You think you could do four
Speaker 1: or five, I'm going to make a reel of this.
Speaker 1: One could do four, but absolutely not do four or five. Okay,
Speaker 1: hold on one, two, four, six. I am so dizzy
Speaker 1: right now. You're gonna regret that tomorrow. I am so dizzy.
Speaker 1: You are.
Speaker 2: But I just did six and I could keep going.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I would like to see you go. I mean, our
Speaker 1: room's not that big, but if we could find us
Speaker 1: where you could do six in a row without like
Speaker 1: stopping and turning and.
Speaker 2: Just go, if I had to go on a straight line. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think four or five is about my lamate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something about stopping real quick and turning the
Speaker 1: other direction. It doesn't make it that you saw it.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: I was turning fast.
Speaker 1: You were so fast. It was like it was like
Speaker 1: you had new shoes on.
Speaker 2: I was lightning.
Speaker 1: Remember was a kid when you got new shoes, and
Speaker 1: it was like I felt so fast. I can run
Speaker 1: so fast in my new shoes.
Speaker 2: I got these sweet shoes, these Nikes, probably the only
Speaker 2: para of Nikes I own because nikes were expensive, and
Speaker 2: I was the there was seven kids and it said
Speaker 2: air on the side.
Speaker 1: Are they the same ones we bought fur soun Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They brought some like vintage like redesigns back out and
Speaker 1: our son I thought, well, it was like some footplace
Speaker 1: in them. I wasn't full arm, but it was something
Speaker 1: like that. And the mom was like, it was foot locker, Mom,
Speaker 1: look at these. It was his birthday, so he was
Speaker 1: allowed to pick out any pair of shoes you wanted,
Speaker 1: and that she wanted to. Ben was so.
Speaker 2: Excited the same thing as I got them for my birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh, really full circle And I thought.
Speaker 2: I was so fast in those things. You probably were,
Speaker 2: I was did they make you?
Speaker 1: That just makes them sad to think all I wanted,
Speaker 1: like my fifth grade year was a pair of the
Speaker 1: light up shoes. My parents wouldn't buy them for me.
Speaker 1: I'm still to this day never owned a pair of
Speaker 1: light up shoes, and that makes me sad.
Speaker 2: I'll get you a pair of light up shoes.
Speaker 1: I don't think they make light up shoes for adults.
Speaker 2: Dude, there's everything on the internet.
Speaker 1: I really do want a pair of light up.
Speaker 2: Shoes, all right, so I didn't just answer the question.
Speaker 2: I did the question.
Speaker 1: You did the question, so right, how many forward roles
Speaker 1: could you do? Oh? Maybe three? In an emergency situation?
Speaker 1: What what kind of padding on the ground are we
Speaker 1: talking about with concrete? Or we talk I knew you did,
Speaker 1: because you're an idiot. If I was on like gym
Speaker 1: pad or like wrestling mat pad, I could do more.
Speaker 1: I'd say five or six.
Speaker 2: So an emergency at three, you'd be like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm out take me?
Speaker 1: Have you guys met me? I said, zombie apocalypse, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go into the garage and turn the
Speaker 1: car on and call it good.
Speaker 2: It's never gonna work.
Speaker 1: It's never gonna work. Can you imagine trying to drag
Speaker 1: me through the forest or the hot desert during a
Speaker 1: life or death situation?
Speaker 2: You out of even get you through a mirror mace?
Speaker 1: Okay, well, the miror maze was very overwhelming, and then
Speaker 1: a zombie apocalypse is not well. I've told you I
Speaker 1: wouldn't just give up. I wouldn't even attempt just baggage
Speaker 1: for you, just save the children. I'm going to be
Speaker 1: no good. But the mirror mais was one of the
Speaker 1: worst situations I've ever been in in my life.
Speaker 2: Let's just I'll tell this story. Quickly took the kids
Speaker 2: to of mirror Mais.
Speaker 1: We all went in.
Speaker 2: Me and the kids were rolling. We're going through. I
Speaker 2: hear Cierra lose me.
Speaker 1: I am at the end.
Speaker 2: Well, you are not paying attention, you're not rolling with us,
Speaker 2: You're in the back. Next thing, I know, Sierra's gone
Speaker 2: and I can see her because it's mirrors, sitting on
Speaker 2: the ground, and she yells out, I'm gonna sit right here.
Speaker 1: I'm done and.
Speaker 2: Quits, And if I left her, she'd still be there
Speaker 2: to this day. Someone would have made zero attempt to
Speaker 2: get out of the ness.
Speaker 1: I was stuck in that maze for like twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: No you weren't, Yes, I you were like two minutes
Speaker 2: from the entrance.
Speaker 1: I was stuck in there for a very long time.
Speaker 1: You guys abandoned me, and then I got stuck where
Speaker 1: I could not find my way out, and then it
Speaker 1: was giving me a headache that all I could see
Speaker 1: was reflections of everything into infinity, and it felt very overwhelming.
Speaker 1: So I just sat down and quit and said, you
Speaker 1: will just have to confind me, and then I closed
Speaker 1: my eyes.
Speaker 2: And I did. I came and I got her, and
Speaker 2: I had to escort her out.
Speaker 1: Of the I closed my eyes and just held your hand.
Speaker 1: I didn't even look where we were going. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: when someone says no one's going to save you, actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: someone is coming to save me. It's my husband. He'll
Speaker 1: be here shortly because at some point he's going to
Speaker 1: realize that I'm I think.
Speaker 2: Two people walked by you. Probably, I think there was
Speaker 2: two other individuals that found you and walked by.
Speaker 1: What does that say about that? They left there in
Speaker 1: the depths of despair and he at her weakest point?
Speaker 1: My word? So no forward rules. Here's the problem with
Speaker 1: four rules. You might not feel it that day, but
Speaker 1: the next day, my shoulder already here. All right, guys,
Speaker 1: On that note, please join us again next week, where
Speaker 1: Ben and I recap another episode of Bye