Speaker 1: The Projection Booth podcast is sponsored by Scarecrow Video. Try
Speaker 1: out scarecrows Brent by mail service. Choose from over one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand films and get Blu rays, four
Speaker 1: k's and DVDs delivered directly to your door. Visit scarecrow
Speaker 1: dot com today.
Speaker 2: Oh g is, folks, it's showtime.
Speaker 3: People say, good money to see this movie. When they
Speaker 3: go out to a theater.
Speaker 4: They want clod sodas, pop popcorn, and no monsters in
Speaker 4: the Projection Booth.
Speaker 3: Everyone for tend. Podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 2: Got it off.
Speaker 3: To me?
Speaker 5: What you like?
Speaker 6: I like when you tell me what to do.
Speaker 1: I know that, what else.
Speaker 3: I don't know?
Speaker 6: Can you just tell me what you want me to do.
Speaker 7: I'm telling you what to do right now, and you're
Speaker 7: not doing it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Happy birthday, it's not my birthday.
Speaker 8: If you're not on Spotify, you're behind the times.
Speaker 7: I was wondering if you could have me not even
Speaker 7: talk when I come over here.
Speaker 4: I don't know you really like to talk.
Speaker 9: It might be back late tonight.
Speaker 6: You said you have costumes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, closet full someone you're dating.
Speaker 1: It's more casual than that.
Speaker 4: I have fucked all, fuck bunny, fuck clown, and fuck pick.
Speaker 8: I could never ban something like that that doesn't have
Speaker 8: a future.
Speaker 1: I need to show you this wonderful pink lamp that
Speaker 1: I found on the street.
Speaker 6: A salt lamp. It's like a thing for lonely people.
Speaker 8: You're the only one that message me, where do you
Speaker 8: like hanging out.
Speaker 9: Here?
Speaker 6: I think people can like more than one type of relationship.
Speaker 1: Man and Board.
Speaker 3: You said everyone would have a fun time, and this
Speaker 3: is a fun time.
Speaker 1: I feel like I would like to find someone to
Speaker 1: be with.
Speaker 3: This is very troubling.
Speaker 10: I worry about being alone.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, Welcome to the Projection Booth. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Mike White Trumany. Once again is miss Lisa van Derver.
Speaker 6: Helu there, good to be back.
Speaker 3: Also back in the booth, mister Keith Gordon, always the
Speaker 3: greatest of pleasures, my friend. This week we are looking
Speaker 3: at the twenty twenty three film The Feeling that the
Speaker 3: time for doing something has passed, which I am going
Speaker 3: to trip over every time I say it. It's from writer,
Speaker 3: director actress Joanna Arno, and it's hilarious. It's about a.
Speaker 1: Thirty three year old woman who is looking for a
Speaker 1: good relationship. She's both submissive and passive and is in
Speaker 1: a bad spot with her current master Allan. When we
Speaker 1: join the story, we will be spoiling this film if
Speaker 1: it can be spoiled as we go along. You have
Speaker 1: been warned. So, Lisa, when was the first time you
Speaker 1: saw this film? And what did you think?
Speaker 6: This had popped up on my radar. I program for
Speaker 6: Sine King the Kinky Film Festival. I'd seen reference to it,
Speaker 6: made a note of it, and then ironically, when I
Speaker 6: was scheduling, I realized, oh, I totally forgot about this film.
Speaker 6: It's already been on the festival circuit. It looks like
Speaker 6: it has a distributor, which in the festival world usually
Speaker 6: means that you can no longer get access to it.
Speaker 6: So it kind of became my white whale. I will
Speaker 6: crop over the title every time as well too. But
Speaker 6: the feeling that the time to do something has passed
Speaker 6: hit me with a lot of irony. Tried reaching out
Speaker 6: to the distributor, wasn't having any luck and was able
Speaker 6: to reach Joanna through Facebook. Very lovely and seeing the
Speaker 6: film was just like, we have to include this, you know.
Speaker 6: We tried to hit any kind of kinky film that
Speaker 6: comes through. But this just struck home. Having spent several
Speaker 6: years in New York dating scene of the bdsm Ouvra
Speaker 6: and so many of the situations were very familiar to me,
Speaker 6: could sympathize with them and knew that other people, even
Speaker 6: though they could watch it on demand, would love the
Speaker 6: opportunity to see it together.
Speaker 1: And Keith, what's your history with this film?
Speaker 3: Well, if I remember correctly, I think it came out
Speaker 3: of looking up things that Sean Baker was involved with,
Speaker 3: because son was an executive producer on this, and I
Speaker 3: find him very interesting as a filmmaker. And whenever I'm
Speaker 3: interested in a filmmaker's work, then I kind of often
Speaker 3: will go on IMDb or whatever and look at, well,
Speaker 3: what else have they been involved in as a way
Speaker 3: to find interesting new things. Then there was a reference
Speaker 3: to this movie which I'd never heard of, and so
Speaker 3: I tracked it down. I saw it on some streaming service,
Speaker 3: I don't remember which one, and I was splown away
Speaker 3: by it. I thought it was amazing. I thought it
Speaker 3: was very funny, as you said, but I also thought
Speaker 3: it was heartbreaking. I thought it was confusing. I mean,
Speaker 3: as somebody who's not really involved in submissive dominant relationships,
Speaker 3: at least it in a very intense way. You know,
Speaker 3: I had all these feelings about, Okay, well, what point
Speaker 3: is being humiliated a positive thing? At what point is
Speaker 3: it a negative thing? The fact that the rest for
Speaker 3: life is so humiliating it filled me with questions and emotion,
Speaker 3: and it made me really curious to see her work.
Speaker 3: So I then track down a lot of her other pieces.
Speaker 3: She's made some short pieces, she made a documentary feature
Speaker 3: about her life, and they all kind of feed into this.
Speaker 3: You and I were saying that talking about this, like
Speaker 3: all of her earlier pieces kind of feed into this
Speaker 3: magnum opist in a way. And the issue she keeps
Speaker 3: going back to with misogyny and humiliation and women's roles
Speaker 3: and not always in these at all, and nestually this
Speaker 3: kind of specific humiliation submission relationship. Sometimes it's about those
Speaker 3: elements in other parts of relationships between men and women.
Speaker 3: I find her body work really interesting, but it's this
Speaker 3: film that I think just stands on its own, is
Speaker 3: a fascinatingly complicated piece. So you know, I fell in
Speaker 3: love with it when you brought it up that you
Speaker 3: were going to be doing it. I was really I
Speaker 3: kind of want people to know about it. It's very
Speaker 3: frustrating to me that I don't think I've ever mentioned
Speaker 3: it to somebody and had them say, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 3: know that movie, I love it, or even I've heard
Speaker 3: of that movie. So I think just getting people to
Speaker 3: be aware of it's a really good thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I brought this film up to my friend Skiz, who
Speaker 1: used to run the Microcinifest worked out the Marilyn Film Festival,
Speaker 1: goes out to slam Dance every year. Very plugged in
Speaker 1: tuned in guy and he was like, oh, I've never
Speaker 1: heard of this. I was like, wow, a you not
Speaker 1: too shame scuse, but it's like you, of all people,
Speaker 1: I'm so surprised because this movie feels like something that
Speaker 1: he would have programmed all these years ago, because it's
Speaker 1: got that awkwardness to it and the deadpan to it,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know if I've ever seen a mumblecore movie,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is a mumblecore movie.
Speaker 1: This is something that I've not really encountered very often,
Speaker 1: and when I do, it's it just hit me so right.
Speaker 1: And the first time I watched this, I just had
Speaker 1: no idea what to think. I went out a journey
Speaker 1: with this movie. I started it. I'm just like, what
Speaker 1: is going on here? Just some of these dead panned lines,
Speaker 1: you know, like, well, happy.
Speaker 9: Birthday, it's not my birthday.
Speaker 1: Well, happy Memorial Day.
Speaker 6: You know, I don't celebrate Memorial Day.
Speaker 1: Every line in this movie feels like it could be
Speaker 1: a trailer line because they're all isolated, and it almost
Speaker 1: feels like just the structure of this film is so interesting,
Speaker 1: the way that it's every scene has a little bit
Speaker 1: of a purpose. We start off with a deadpan line,
Speaker 1: and then we wait for a while, and then there's
Speaker 1: the response, and then we wait for another little while,
Speaker 1: and then we have the retort, and it's just it
Speaker 1: goes on this way for almost every single scene, and
Speaker 1: it just gets funnier every single time it happens. And
Speaker 1: you just see the absurdity of things like her job,
Speaker 1: where her boss is talking about if.
Speaker 8: You're not on Spotify, you're behind the times, you're behind,
Speaker 8: you got to keep up. People can become obsolete. That's
Speaker 8: worth repeating. People can become obsolete.
Speaker 1: Everything was making me laugh harder and harder and harder,
Speaker 1: Like as this movie went along, by the end, I
Speaker 1: was in stitches.
Speaker 6: And yeah, the farce is in practically every scene. You know,
Speaker 6: you have the family relationships, you have the job relationships,
Speaker 6: then you have these scenes with Alan, the first master
Speaker 6: you meet. You know, this long shot of her running
Speaker 6: over and having to stand against the wall and then
Speaker 6: run back here, and my nipple and just how clumsy
Speaker 6: it all is, and which is kind of sex in general.
Speaker 6: It's just depicted so perfectly as opposed to sort of
Speaker 6: those glowy romantic shots we get through from so many movies.
Speaker 1: I don't know if the camera ever moves in this film.
Speaker 1: It feels like everything's very static, which then also adds
Speaker 1: to it. Was kind of reminded of like New Yorker
Speaker 1: cartoons or something as I was watching this, like it
Speaker 1: feels like we're looking at a panel of a cartoon
Speaker 1: sometimes though she does have cuts, but it just feels
Speaker 1: like so much of this is so static and so
Speaker 1: matter of fact. Is there music in this movie other
Speaker 1: than diegetic stuff. I don't think there's any sort of
Speaker 1: like non diegetic music to this.
Speaker 3: I don't think there's a score. I certainly just rewatch it,
Speaker 3: and I don't remember any score. There's you know music
Speaker 3: that is Yeah, there's there's source music, there's music that's
Speaker 3: in the story, there's music that would be playing in
Speaker 3: a background. But yeah, I feel like her framing is
Speaker 3: really interesting because it's beautifully framed without feeling self conscious.
Speaker 3: I mean, but it is very conscious. I mean where
Speaker 3: people are in the frame, how things are framed is
Speaker 3: very intentional, but not stuffy. You know, it doesn't feel
Speaker 3: film schooly, but it does feel like, yeah, she didn't
Speaker 3: just put the camera somewhere. I mean, she definitely thought
Speaker 3: about it and what it's saying about the power relationship.
Speaker 3: The whole film is about dynamics and relationships, and I
Speaker 3: feel like the camera is always aware of that, but
Speaker 3: in a way that's lovely and that it's very effective,
Speaker 3: but it's not making you stop watching movie and think about, oh,
Speaker 3: look at that, that shot represents this or that. I mean,
Speaker 3: you can do it if you want to get yourself
Speaker 3: out of the movie, but it doesn't ask you to.
Speaker 3: The thing I loved was that it didn't seem like
Speaker 3: any other movie I could remember ever seeing. And whenever
Speaker 3: that can happen to me after seeing whatever ten thousand
Speaker 3: movies in my life, I feel like when I see
Speaker 3: a movie, go that's something that's its own thing. I
Speaker 3: find that super exciting and really interesting to me.
Speaker 1: It tells a story, you know, it's not just these
Speaker 1: vignettes of absurdist things happening. As you get into the movie,
Speaker 1: you start to see patterns where Okay, now she's with Alan,
Speaker 1: Now she's at her job, now she's at the yoga studio,
Speaker 1: now she's with her mom and dad. Then repeat, and
Speaker 1: we just kind of go through that. I don't think
Speaker 1: the yoga studio gets as much, but it's just like
Speaker 1: seeing where she's at with these relationships. Yes, we have
Speaker 1: these title cards that come in, and those are very
Speaker 1: interesting because we'll talk about the blank title card towards
Speaker 1: the end, But.
Speaker 3: Here we are.
Speaker 1: The first part is with Alan, and then she moves
Speaker 1: to somebody else because Alan really isn't satisfying her, I
Speaker 1: don't think, and some of the looks on her face
Speaker 1: when he's doing things like holding her really tight and
Speaker 1: just being like, this is what being a submissive is,
Speaker 1: and she's just like just questioning everything. And that's what
Speaker 1: it feels like. This whole movie is for me, just
Speaker 1: her going with the flow and trying to get some
Speaker 1: sort of emotional satisfaction out of these situations, and she's
Speaker 1: not able to get anything. As far as what I feel,
Speaker 1: it feels like she's really trying, and towards the middle
Speaker 1: of the movie, she's like, Okay, I'm done with this
Speaker 1: whole like fetish lifestyle. I'm going to go on a
Speaker 1: quote unquote normal website and make a profile. She starts
Speaker 1: dating other people and then it's like, no, I really
Speaker 1: like BDSM. I really want that out of these relationships.
Speaker 1: So then trying to introduce her partners into that, especially
Speaker 1: your one partner is at Chris right, trying to get
Speaker 1: him into this, and then it's just like it just
Speaker 1: puts a spotlight on how silly some of this stuff is.
Speaker 1: I mean, this whole month, we've talked about Limage, the
Speaker 1: story of Oh you know, now we've got this one,
Speaker 1: and it's just like such different representations of BDSM throughout
Speaker 1: this entire month. It's kind of wild in this one.
Speaker 1: It's like each one is about connect and this one
Speaker 1: it feels like she just cannot make a connection.
Speaker 3: Well, I also feel like it's about maybe being unable
Speaker 3: to stay with a connection, because I do feel like
Speaker 3: with Chris, there is a connection and he does seem
Speaker 3: to be willing to meet her halfway sexually. And that's
Speaker 3: part of why I find the film really heartbreaking too,
Speaker 3: because I feel like it is about somebody who it's
Speaker 3: very sex positive and that she is whoever she is,
Speaker 3: but she is in relationships where she's not having a
Speaker 3: lot of emotional connection, whether it's with her family, whether
Speaker 3: it's at work, whether and then there's a hint of
Speaker 3: something more, and ultimately she can't stay with that. She
Speaker 3: has to go back to something. I mean, that end
Speaker 3: of the film I find devastating because it's about that
Speaker 3: she's back to being completely disconnected. And what I looked
Speaker 3: at her earlier work, which as I say, is it
Speaker 3: was a documentary about an earlier relationship we had with
Speaker 3: a guy that was very humiliating, but he wasn't in
Speaker 3: a sexual way. He was just an asshole who treated
Speaker 3: her horribly, and she just kept kind of coming back
Speaker 3: for more. And he was this like jerky, racist, horrible guy,
Speaker 3: and she just keeps staying with him, and you ultimately
Speaker 3: feel furious with her and heartbroken by her because he's
Speaker 3: alcoholic and he's mean and he's weird. And there are
Speaker 3: moments that he's nice but in that classic kind of
Speaker 3: abusive and then way, and she makes the film about
Speaker 3: herself because so clearly she's aware of the issue, but
Speaker 3: she keeps staying so I feel like there's something about
Speaker 3: her with a filmmaker that is dealing with something beyond
Speaker 3: the sexual element of humiliation and really dealing with wanting
Speaker 3: to connect but being not feeling. I don't know if
Speaker 3: it's that she feels she doesn't deserve connection or deserve
Speaker 3: to be treated well, or but there's a larger issue.
Speaker 3: I mean, her short film called Laying Out is a
Speaker 3: really interesting movie because it's like she and one other
Speaker 3: actress in there are two it's like six minutes, and
Speaker 3: there are two mermaids on a beach, and one of
Speaker 3: the other, one that she doesn't play, first starts talking
Speaker 3: about this humiliating relationships she's in with this guy who
Speaker 3: every time he's about to come in her mouths is,
Speaker 3: so here comes your dinner, and that's kind of creepy.
Speaker 3: But then those women goes on this really misogynistic grant
Speaker 3: about women and why she hates women, why she thinks
Speaker 3: women are horrible, and why she wants to have a penis,
Speaker 3: and then she starts talking about she wants to have
Speaker 3: a penis so she can hate fuck other women and
Speaker 3: that she can push their head away while they're coming,
Speaker 3: while she she's coming, and it AMDs on. Joanna Arnau
Speaker 3: is going good and you just kind of go, Okay,
Speaker 3: what the fuck? So clearly this is somebody who's really
Speaker 3: working through issues about being a woman in our society
Speaker 3: in an interesting way and being very unafraid of being
Speaker 3: very bold and even disturbing. But it's not just about
Speaker 3: DDSM relationships. It's about like the whole placing of being
Speaker 3: a woman in the world in a very naked, self
Speaker 3: exposing way, which I find times are disturbing but really interesting.
Speaker 6: This time, I didn't find the ending as heartbreaking as
Speaker 6: I did the first time, and I'm sort of opening
Speaker 6: myself to other readings that are within the film. Like
Speaker 6: my memory of it was very close to when I
Speaker 6: was thinking of it, I could only think of the
Speaker 6: scenes of her and Alan and how awkward those were.
Speaker 6: But watching it again to discuss it further, seeing the
Speaker 6: scenes where she's getting a text from Alan and her
Speaker 6: smirk and smile, and then the various doms she runs
Speaker 6: into all have their sort of tropy aspects. There's Elliott
Speaker 6: who has her dressed up in the pig costume, but
Speaker 6: he's also asking her, are we going to have to
Speaker 6: do after care every time? And she's like yeah, And
Speaker 6: you start seeing her speak up more, I think throughout
Speaker 6: the film where she's very passive at the start, and
Speaker 6: then there's the camming scene with Alan and she says,
Speaker 6: I'm not just an Internet window that you can open
Speaker 6: and close, and then he even remarks he said, that's
Speaker 6: a sign of a good submissuit speaking up in the moment,
Speaker 6: which is something he had seemed to be trying to
Speaker 6: get to do early on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she definitely is starting to speak up a little
Speaker 1: bit more at work. I love the work stuff because
Speaker 1: it so reminds me of so many jobs that I've
Speaker 1: had in the past. One of the first times we
Speaker 1: see her at work, she wins an award for being
Speaker 1: at the job for a year, and she goes, I've
Speaker 1: been here for like three and a half years, and
Speaker 1: they bring her that trophy that says one year and
Speaker 1: you just stay on that trophy for a while, and
Speaker 1: it's like, we thank you for your loyalty.
Speaker 6: And she's supposed to be making herself obsolete. That's the
Speaker 6: whole point of her job. But she fails at that.
Speaker 1: And she's got that whole thing. How she wants that title,
Speaker 1: like very specific about the title, and she's got I
Speaker 1: think the guy's name is Carl, who's on the video screen,
Speaker 1: and it's not even a video screen for them, like
Speaker 1: it's just their pictures getting larger and smaller as they
Speaker 1: go back and forth. And I love towards the end
Speaker 1: of it when she's like, yeah, I told you about
Speaker 1: the It's like I outlined this in my email and
Speaker 1: I was like, ooh, that's for a work setting. That's
Speaker 1: like major zinger. I do appreciate that she does seem
Speaker 1: to get more and more active as she goes along,
Speaker 1: and yeah, that's stuff with the piggy costume, especially when
Speaker 1: she's out masturbating by the subway I think it is
Speaker 1: by the l and talking about the sound mix of it,
Speaker 1: you know, you get great things like her making what
Speaker 1: is it, like lentils or something and just squeezing those
Speaker 1: lopping yeah, and you hear that so loud. And then
Speaker 1: when she's out there masturbating and she's got jingle bells
Speaker 1: on her wrists. It sounds like and you just hear
Speaker 1: the bells going as she's doing that. You don't see anything.
Speaker 1: You just hear the bells going.
Speaker 6: And then his line, you know, I want everyone on
Speaker 6: the beakue to hear what a horror you are.
Speaker 3: But what's interesting is too her expression in that is
Speaker 3: frustrated and bored. Clearly she's also in the midst of going, yeah,
Speaker 3: is this working for me? And where is it not?
Speaker 3: And she's always exploring that. And I do really like that,
Speaker 3: Like there's this questioning thing in every scene. I feel
Speaker 3: like the character and the filmmaker is kind of going,
Speaker 3: do I like this? So I want this? Who am I?
Speaker 3: How do I fit? I feel like it's just, in
Speaker 3: a way relentless, and I mean that is a good thing.
Speaker 3: You know that there's an exploration constantly of Okay, maybe
Speaker 3: I asked for this, maybe I didn't. Maybe I volunteered
Speaker 3: for this, maybe I didn't. Oh that feels okay, that
Speaker 3: doesn't feel okay, this feels good. This work just doesn't work.
Speaker 3: I thought this was in a way that very few
Speaker 3: of us do in our life. She's doing it right
Speaker 3: on film, you know, just really questioning who am I
Speaker 3: and where do I fit in? And is this what
Speaker 3: I want? Constantly for very complicated, messy, hysterically funny relationship
Speaker 3: with her parents, she doesn't break off from them. I
Speaker 3: mean they are in many ways horrible in many ways,
Speaker 3: and those really are her parents in the movie playing
Speaker 3: her horrible parents, which is kind of fascinating, and in
Speaker 3: her documentory, you know, you see her parents and you
Speaker 3: feel more empathetic for them because she puts them in
Speaker 3: some really weird positions. She shows them sex scenes, like
Speaker 3: explicit sex scenes that she's done as an actress, and
Speaker 3: they're like, we don't want to be seeing this, and
Speaker 3: she's like, well you have to, and you kind of
Speaker 3: start going, whoa, this is kind of weird. But the
Speaker 3: fact is it's always complicated because she could not have
Speaker 3: a relationship with the parents. I mean, yes, her parents
Speaker 3: are difficult, but she could walk away and she doesn't.
Speaker 3: So clearly she's getting something from it. But I feel
Speaker 3: like we watch her in real time kind of going
Speaker 3: what am I getting from this? Why am I here?
Speaker 3: What do I want from them? What do they want
Speaker 3: from me? And it's like sort of examining the unexamined
Speaker 3: life if most of us go through our lives and
Speaker 3: our parents Trafe's crazy, but we don't stop and go, well,
Speaker 3: why and what? And I feel like she's just constantly
Speaker 3: in this movie questioning, right on screen and as the
Speaker 3: filmmaker behind the.
Speaker 6: Count and coming out into the living room when they're
Speaker 6: on vacation as her mother's cleaning her teeth, like I'm
Speaker 6: gonna sit here and I'm gonna watch chepan your teeth
Speaker 6: because that seems to be what you want. And here
Speaker 6: I am considering.
Speaker 1: Yourself back into it. You say, we don't spend enough
Speaker 1: time together. Her dad's barely a presence in this movie.
Speaker 1: It took me a long time to really figure out
Speaker 1: that he was in this movie. I mean he's right
Speaker 1: there at the beginning when they're having that birthday slash
Speaker 1: Memorial Day celebration, and then he gets that great moment
Speaker 1: where he gets to sing the solidarity song. That was incredible.
Speaker 1: I was talking about the use of music. I mean,
Speaker 1: you get that, and it's amazing. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we're showing the passage of time, because there's one point
Speaker 1: where you have a Holy Night playing behind a scene.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, this is a weird contradiction of these
Speaker 1: images versus this song. But I loved it. I was
Speaker 1: just like, as this took its hold on me, I
Speaker 1: just kept feeling better and better about this movie, even
Speaker 1: though yes, it is all about the awkwardness and just
Speaker 1: she lay on so much. Like even when she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: look at this lamp that I found. It's really cool,
Speaker 1: and like it's trying to explain it to her friend
Speaker 1: and her friends just like, oh yeah, it's a salt lamp,
Speaker 1: it just kind of like shuts her down.
Speaker 6: Like and that's for lonely people.
Speaker 3: And that's for yeah, that's for lonely people. It's like
Speaker 3: so rough. Oh yeah.
Speaker 6: There's another weird scene where she's with a man and
Speaker 6: he's introducing her to these two women and they're they're like, oh,
Speaker 6: we already talked to Anne, and that was it. That
Speaker 6: was the all scene. So what was that.
Speaker 1: It feels like this movie is improvised. I know it's not,
Speaker 1: but it just feels like all of these scenes are
Speaker 1: completely just made up on the spot. Oh I want
Speaker 1: you to go over there, you know, turn around and
Speaker 1: stand there and pull your butt cheeks apart. I mean,
Speaker 1: how humiliating for her as the writer actor director of this,
Speaker 1: but she's there for it.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And then as she meets Chris, as you were saying, it,
Speaker 6: kind of it's feeling more like a more conventional movie,
Speaker 6: and it felt less awkward because there was real human
Speaker 6: connection between them, although there's still a lot of very
Speaker 6: awkward scenes like singing the songs from ley Miz.
Speaker 1: But she's so into it too.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah. We never see her that animated any other
Speaker 3: time until she starts seeing Limiz and it's which is
Speaker 3: actually both endearing and hysterical and terrifying all at once.
Speaker 6: Yeah. She just totally is glowing at that point and
Speaker 6: has this knowledge of all these musicals, which he's finding dismaying,
Speaker 6: although tolerates it.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 1: Those are all Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals.
Speaker 6: And then meanwhile he's introducing her to he's bringing her
Speaker 6: to these obscure experimental films which actually don't exist. They
Speaker 6: were created for the movie, so you kind of get
Speaker 6: a feeling of what that dynamic is there. At the
Speaker 6: same time, he's just so open and cheerful. Seems like
Speaker 6: he's just right for her for that one aspect, although
Speaker 6: he does seem to start taking a shine to.
Speaker 1: It well, and at least he's not a Zionist, what
Speaker 1: the hell.
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 6: So bizarre, And Alan's finally opening up to her, and
Speaker 6: he seemed very hurt too that she didn't respond to that,
Speaker 6: and he's kind of puddling him in the bed, and
Speaker 6: so we start seeing a little growth from him.
Speaker 1: Too, though, having those end credits over them just laying
Speaker 1: there in bed, you know, basically take a guess back
Speaker 1: to the beginning of the movie where they're laying in
Speaker 1: bed together, and at least with that, she goes over
Speaker 1: and basically starts trying to get off rubbing herself on him.
Speaker 1: But by the end of the movie, it's almost like
Speaker 1: that gulf between them is even greater than it was
Speaker 1: at the beginning.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're both there on their cell phones. Although she
Speaker 6: looks so much more self possessed there.
Speaker 3: She seems more self possessed, but she doesn't seem any
Speaker 3: more connected on a human level. And that's which I
Speaker 3: found so said, is that in a way she's grown,
Speaker 3: but in a way in terms of human relating, she's
Speaker 3: still stuck. And he did try to open up, and
Speaker 3: she does push him away the second he talks about
Speaker 3: I mean, I found it interesting because he says, yes,
Speaker 3: he's going to Israel because he's got some body, but
Speaker 3: he's very you know, he does say I don't agree
Speaker 3: with everything. Everything is real. I mean he's not like,
Speaker 3: he doesn't come out as some like he's not a
Speaker 3: fanatic who's like, yes, I'm going because I want to
Speaker 3: be a you know, help settlers kill Palestinians. He's like,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't agree with everything they do. I mean,
Speaker 3: he's really trying to see him like, I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to share who I am. And boy, she just shuts
Speaker 3: down and gives the message of yeah, I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear that. I don't want to hear anything about
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a political stance on her part.
Speaker 3: I mean I think she may play it off as that.
Speaker 3: I feel like there's something about being disturbed by him
Speaker 3: opening up at all, and she's like slams that door shut.
Speaker 3: And again I found it so sad. It's like she
Speaker 3: leaves somebody who seems very kind and sweet to go
Speaker 3: back to this guy who's very it's complicated, but he's
Speaker 3: trying to find that human ground in it, and she
Speaker 3: just doesn't want to go there because on some level,
Speaker 3: she meant just create a character. I think, who's who's
Speaker 3: so cut off and so did and yet so empathetic.
Speaker 3: I mean, I really want her to be happy, and
Speaker 3: I really want her to find a way to be
Speaker 3: turned on by being humiliated but still have real human connection,
Speaker 3: and she doesn't seem to be able to do it.
Speaker 3: I get so frustrated because I want her to have
Speaker 3: her cake. You needed too, And I think it's a
Speaker 3: movie that, in part is about how hard that is.
Speaker 6: You do see her opening up to Chris though, when
Speaker 6: they're at the whatever musical that is that he's performing,
Speaker 6: and she sends in the text about wanting to sit
Speaker 6: him in her lap. The first time I read a spot,
Speaker 6: I said it on her face, but then I reread,
Speaker 6: oh okay, and she's kind of taking control of that.
Speaker 6: And the other thing I noticed was when Alan was
Speaker 6: texting her, you get the moment where you see the
Speaker 6: bubbles and he's not replying, and then she was doing
Speaker 6: the same thing to Chris, like he would reach out
Speaker 6: to her and she'd did the whole thing where you
Speaker 6: type it out and then delete, delete, talite. It kind
Speaker 6: of felt like she was playing the switch role a
Speaker 6: bit with him and topping from below.
Speaker 1: Is that what the kids call leaving someone on red?
Speaker 6: I think so, I don't know. I don't know any kids.
Speaker 1: The power move right that whole here's the three dots,
Speaker 1: now the three dots go away?
Speaker 6: But she did it twice to Chris.
Speaker 1: And then there's that guy Thomas. I think, right, who
Speaker 1: is the musician? And at first you're just like, who.
Speaker 3: The hell is this guy?
Speaker 6: Man's plaining La.
Speaker 1: I don't Yes, yes, but he catches himself right, like,
Speaker 1: you don't need me Man's playing.
Speaker 6: Yes, thanks for forgiving me for Man's plaining, La, which
Speaker 6: is we didn't get to participate in that conversation, but
Speaker 6: you can kind of imagine in a bar or something
Speaker 6: before she did dismiss him.
Speaker 3: And of course it makes it so funny is he's
Speaker 3: literally just finished coming in her mouth. I mean basically,
Speaker 3: it's like and then five seconds later he's like, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry for her Man's plaining. It's like, it's like again.
Speaker 3: She does these juxtapositions, which I think are true to
Speaker 3: real life, but you never see them in movies, where
Speaker 3: like sexuality and completely non sexual things get mushed together
Speaker 3: and like the awkwardness of the sex, but also like
Speaker 3: how there's sex and there's everything else in life and
Speaker 3: they kind of just sometimes fall on top of each
Speaker 3: other in just weird ways. And that's a deeply funny,
Speaker 3: deeply weird moment. I mean, for somebody to finish coming
Speaker 3: and two seconds that it goes well, sorry, man's plained
Speaker 3: about la. It's just not again, it's not a movement
Speaker 3: moment I've ever seen in a movie before, but I
Speaker 3: believe it's a moment that happens in somebody's life.
Speaker 6: I can totally see that.
Speaker 1: Yes, we when so many of these guys, they just
Speaker 1: seem to be there for her giving them a head
Speaker 1: which again very true to like works like oh you're submissive, cool,
Speaker 1: suck my cock. There's more to it than that. And
Speaker 1: she's trying to explain that and oh, yeah, now I
Speaker 1: need to be spanked, and yes, I would like after
Speaker 1: care and these things, and it's like, okay, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess there's more to this just having a freecome receptacle.
Speaker 6: It's complicated. There's a lot of energy that goes into it.
Speaker 6: And she's coaching Chris on that. It's like, no, I
Speaker 6: don't want you, just want me to sec They go
Speaker 6: through that whole thing of no, I want you to
Speaker 6: make me wait for it, and he catches on though
Speaker 6: I better shaid some promise.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what's so heartbreaking is he does really legitimately
Speaker 3: seem in a way I think we'd all want in
Speaker 3: a relationship to really be interested in her what turns
Speaker 3: you on. It may not be what I'm used to,
Speaker 3: but I'm completely here for you. I like you, and
Speaker 3: so I want to give you what works for you.
Speaker 3: And that's what he seems to bring uniquely into it,
Speaker 3: and why for me I did want to see them
Speaker 3: get together. It wasn't just that movie thing of oh,
Speaker 3: he's a normal guy. I would have felt really pissed
Speaker 3: if the movie became about how she like sheds her sexuality.
Speaker 3: But instead, here's this relationship where the guy is willing
Speaker 3: to be sweet and still go. But I want to
Speaker 3: give you what turns you on, and I want to
Speaker 3: play that game with you, and I'll get it. I'll
Speaker 3: be an enthusiastic participant if you will coach me. And
Speaker 3: I think that's part of why I feel like it's
Speaker 3: so sad that she can't stay there, because he seems
Speaker 3: like he's really willing to do that thing, going yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: we're different, but that doesn't matter, which seems so sweet
Speaker 3: because we're all that way.
Speaker 6: I mean, he does present the opportunity earlier to see
Speaker 6: her old masters, which she kind of bats down. So
Speaker 6: in this new reading of this, I'm thinking, maybe maybe
Speaker 6: she has gone back to Alan just to scratch that itch,
Speaker 6: and maybe she's going to come back to Chris. And
Speaker 6: they have that date for September fifteenth, so maybe we'll
Speaker 6: get a sequel.
Speaker 1: The feeling that the time for doing something has passed again, that.
Speaker 6: Was my hopeful reading of it this time, because yeah,
Speaker 6: you really want that to work out. At the same time,
Speaker 6: I understand that whole of needing to scratch that itch.
Speaker 6: The concept of growth in the film wasn't like a
Speaker 6: causal straight through. He kept kind of looping back and
Speaker 6: she'd be a little further back and then back ahead.
Speaker 6: There was one scene that jumped out at me this
Speaker 6: time was when they're walking in the park towards Asci
Speaker 6: and Chris and they're on some nature tour and it
Speaker 6: hits you too because it's there out in nature and
Speaker 6: it's bright green and such a contrast all the bedroom
Speaker 6: scenes the guy is talking about the tree on the
Speaker 6: bark can't keep up with the tree's growth, and then
Speaker 6: the bark falls off as a gift to the tree.
Speaker 1: Make of that what you will. And the editing of
Speaker 1: this is so nicely done. You know, this wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: work as well if we didn't have really good edits
Speaker 1: for when we start the scenes, when we finish the scenes,
Speaker 1: when we will do an insert shot. You know, I
Speaker 1: talked about the insert of that award that she gets,
Speaker 1: So we have like those kind of like laugh inserts
Speaker 1: where it's like, Okay, now we're going to cut to this,
Speaker 1: and it's just going to be again this kind of
Speaker 1: absurdist moment where it's like in Bark. Think when Steve
Speaker 1: Buscemi's writing down his name and he's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: my name's Chet. My name is make sure you know Chet.
Speaker 1: And then he writes down his name. I think he
Speaker 1: turns the paper around, pushes it across the desk to
Speaker 1: Barton Fink, and then we cut to an insert shot
Speaker 1: of Chet. I love those kind of things, you know,
Speaker 1: and those are very much what we're doing here. And
Speaker 1: then she does this kind of thing where you know,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about how we have this repetition of we
Speaker 1: go from this scene to the scene to this scene,
Speaker 1: from this area to this area to this area. And
Speaker 1: there's one moment, I think it's towards the middle of
Speaker 1: the film where she just starts really cutting or having
Speaker 1: it cut very very quickly, and it's like she's taking
Speaker 1: us up and down.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It talks about how there's not a lot of music
Speaker 1: in this even though there are these musical moments. I mean,
Speaker 1: Thomas is a musician. We have him playing his music,
Speaker 1: you know, we have her doing the song We've Got
Speaker 1: a Holy Night and these kind of things. But really
Speaker 1: the rhythm and the musicality of this film for me
Speaker 1: is the editing and the editing rhythm, and how he
Speaker 1: will get very very quick, and then we'll take a
Speaker 1: long pause, and then we'll get quick again, and then
Speaker 1: we'll take another pause. So that moment in the middle
Speaker 1: feels like, Okay, this is some sort of turning point,
Speaker 1: because we're starting to speed up our cuts and going
Speaker 1: from one situation to the next to the next. And
Speaker 1: of course every time we cut back to that boardroom,
Speaker 1: her boss or the CEO or whoever that is just
Speaker 1: keeps making more and more absurd remarks, just like explaining,
Speaker 1: you know, how Facebook happened, or these kind of things
Speaker 1: where it's just it's just like, this is the most
Speaker 1: innatant thing in the world. I love when she asks
Speaker 1: him what the five year plan is and rather than
Speaker 1: tell her, he's just like, well, I feel very disappointed
Speaker 1: because I feel like we covered that before, which is
Speaker 1: the thing that so many passive aggressive bosses will do
Speaker 1: where it's just like, yeah, I'm not mad, I'm just
Speaker 1: disappointed in you or the employees are the most important
Speaker 1: part of our job. You know, you take care of us,
Speaker 1: so we'll take care of you, got to. But just
Speaker 1: sandwich is in some nasty looking chips.
Speaker 3: Well, in the duality of everything, the fact that the
Speaker 3: boss first says I really like that question, you know,
Speaker 3: but I'm also disappointed by the question because we covered it.
Speaker 3: Nobody will ever just be straight out about anything, and
Speaker 3: particularly in that work world, but in all of the worlds.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's like, like, why does he say, Oh,
Speaker 3: I part of me really likes that question, but I'm
Speaker 3: really disappointed you asked. I was like, it's like, no
Speaker 3: one is sort of just saying what they what's going on.
Speaker 6: And that's like the relationship with her sister. What's going
Speaker 6: on with her sister's relationship with her husband, Craig, I'm
Speaker 6: not sure, you know. Suddenly the sister is there and
Speaker 6: she's on the mattress, and then and speak up and
Speaker 6: say you're kind of in the way, and then suddenly
Speaker 6: the sister's gone.
Speaker 3: There's like no exposition in this movie, which is also
Speaker 3: one of the things that's really cool about it. Every relationship,
Speaker 3: the sister is suddenly showing up and leaving. It's never explained.
Speaker 3: I mean, you get what you get out of We
Speaker 3: see the moments that are going on, but there's never
Speaker 3: that dialogue that ninety nine point nine percent movies have
Speaker 3: where somebody's saying something they probably wouldn't say so that
Speaker 3: we as the audience will get caught up to speed
Speaker 3: on what's going on here. It's like we were thrown
Speaker 3: into these situations and you learn what's actually We only
Speaker 3: see what actually being said between these people and what
Speaker 3: you know, you know, what you don't you don't. And
Speaker 3: I found that really interesting because it left me a
Speaker 3: lot of space to have to kind of fill it in,
Speaker 3: and I found that much more interesting than having the
Speaker 3: sister go well, you know, I'm having this problem, and
Speaker 3: then you know Joanna's character going oh oh, well, I
Speaker 3: think that you know, the fact that we're just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: what's the deal is just great.
Speaker 1: You don't need to be spoon fed all the stuff.
Speaker 1: Though I know Keith you're a big fan of voiceovers.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you aren't just like, give me a voiceover
Speaker 1: for this whole thing starts to f hitting. No, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna oh god, did you imagine if she had
Speaker 1: added a voiceover to explain everything that was going on?
Speaker 1: And I love just this very cold way of telling
Speaker 1: this story, And yeah, it doesn't necessarily leave me guessing.
Speaker 1: There's no points of this where I'm just like, well,
Speaker 1: what happened? I need to know more. I need to
Speaker 1: know more about her relationship with her mother. No, those
Speaker 1: things where they're on that walk and they see the
Speaker 1: flower and they're talking and the mom's just like, I'd
Speaker 1: like some acknowledgment because I taught you everything you know
Speaker 1: about flowers, And I'm like, wow, like you just know
Speaker 1: that their relationship and we've seen it, you can tell
Speaker 1: what their relationship has been like for their entire life
Speaker 1: from these few minutes. I mean, this movie is only
Speaker 1: ninety minutes long, not even from those few scenes that
Speaker 1: we get of them together. You're just like, I know
Speaker 1: your entire life.
Speaker 3: And there's something that she captures with the parents that
Speaker 3: I feel like I don't remember seeing in other movies,
Speaker 3: but it was very much part of my dynamic with
Speaker 3: my parents. So it felt very moving and meaningful to me,
Speaker 3: which is the sense of it never being enough of
Speaker 3: your parents, like telling you, oh, we want to see you,
Speaker 3: we want you'd be in our life, we want to
Speaker 3: you know, but whatever you do, it will never be enough.
Speaker 3: It will always be well if you all thank you
Speaker 3: for giving us three hours, but it would really mean
Speaker 3: you love us if you were here five hours and
Speaker 3: if you were and that sense to the whole movie
Speaker 3: that no matter what she does with her parents, it's never,
Speaker 3: especially for mom, going to ever be enough. And I
Speaker 3: thought it was again both funny and heartbreaking because you
Speaker 3: realize that's probably been going on since she was a
Speaker 3: tiny child, and it felt like a really real dynamic
Speaker 3: their parents have of want some parents to have, of
Speaker 3: wanting this kind of yeah, thanks for everything, and wanting
Speaker 3: attention and wanting, but no matter what you do, it
Speaker 3: won't ever. And again that was something I lived with,
Speaker 3: and I'm just like, wow, I don't remember when I've
Speaker 3: seen that in a movie before. I've seen parents who
Speaker 3: are mean in other ways or difficult, but I thought
Speaker 3: that specific she really captured just of you can spend
Speaker 3: your life and you're never going to repay us in
Speaker 3: quotes for all the you owe us for.
Speaker 1: Through this movie, everything is defined by men, you know.
Speaker 1: The first title card is Alan, and then we've got Thomas.
Speaker 1: Was it Thomas and Chris, I think, And I can't
Speaker 1: remember who three is, but I know with four, we
Speaker 1: just keep upping the stakes. Four as Peter, Hugo, Martin, Bob,
Speaker 1: and Jason, And just each time we get these title cards,
Speaker 1: it's different men's names, and it's these people that she's
Speaker 1: meeting interacting with. Though I love that at the end
Speaker 1: we have the black and there's no title card, you know,
Speaker 1: like towards the end to your point, I think she
Speaker 1: has maybe turned a corner and maybe it's not being
Speaker 1: defined by the men in her life, and maybe she's
Speaker 1: actually starting to take a little bit more control. I
Speaker 1: would like to also think that her going back to
Speaker 1: Alan is not the final thing that there is perhaps
Speaker 1: reconciliation or that September date with Chris, because I would
Speaker 1: really like to think that she's made some progress throughout
Speaker 1: this entire movie.
Speaker 3: She does make a point of the September date. I mean,
Speaker 3: it is true. I sort of I'd sort of forgotten
Speaker 3: that a bit. But you know, in a movie where
Speaker 3: there is not much the way exposition, she bothered to
Speaker 3: have that moment. So you guys are making a pretty
Speaker 3: convincing case that that at least is on the plate
Speaker 3: of possibilities. I mean, she's she's clearly torn in terms
Speaker 3: of herself, how she sees herself, whether it's this character
Speaker 3: or in life. I mean her documentary about herself is
Speaker 3: called I Hate Myself and then a little smiley face,
Speaker 3: and so it's like, those are the two sides of
Speaker 3: this person as an artist and as a human being.
Speaker 3: It's like, I hate myself with a smile. But it's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but you really seem like there are parts of you
Speaker 3: that you really hate, and then you put there parts
Speaker 3: of that that you laugh at. And I feel like
Speaker 3: at the end of this movie they're both true.
Speaker 1: I forgot about her friends that she hangs out with
Speaker 1: the ones. They tell that story about the sunglasses.
Speaker 7: You know, Charles and I only thought we didn't have
Speaker 7: a connection after our first date, but it was because
Speaker 7: we were wearing sunglasses and didn't see each other's eyes.
Speaker 6: How did you realize that had been a problem.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna take the sunglasses off. Does better. They're
Speaker 1: the ones that help set her up with that new
Speaker 1: dating profile, and I love her dating profile where it's
Speaker 1: things like I like dense foods that sit heavily in
Speaker 1: the stomach, or I don't like people who talk about
Speaker 1: nine to eleven too much. You know, they're like, are
Speaker 1: you sure you want to do that?
Speaker 6: The woman tries to dissuade her, but the guy is like,
Speaker 6: let her be who's who she is, and then look
Speaker 6: who she finds on her the dating montage. You gotta
Speaker 6: have the dating montage.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, that dating montage is fantastic, even just the
Speaker 1: pictures of the guys that come up on her phone.
Speaker 1: Some of those are just so ridiculous, so funny that.
Speaker 6: I guess that's how she met christ.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing is that is that you know
Speaker 3: it's the two sides again, because she gives these really,
Speaker 3: She says, yeah, I don't like people who are too
Speaker 3: upset about nine to eleven, which is a very odd
Speaker 3: specific to put in an eating profile. But like, obviously
Speaker 3: he got her humor. I mean, that was the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, these other guys completely like I mean,
Speaker 3: the one guy said, yeah, I called you because you're
Speaker 3: the person who responded to me. You know, that's the thing.
Speaker 3: She put herself out there, and somebody kind of clued
Speaker 3: into it. As I feel like what happened with Chris
Speaker 3: is that he probably read that and laughed and went, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm curious what kind of person would say I don't
Speaker 3: like people who are too upset about nine to eleven?
Speaker 3: Like what's that about? And that's the interesting double edge.
Speaker 1: I mean again, I just love these you know. You
Speaker 1: cut to this tableau and it's her in the sky
Speaker 1: and with their half filled glasses of beer, and he's
Speaker 1: got these mustard colored pants on, and those pants almost
Speaker 1: match him as a person because he's very pale. He's
Speaker 1: got red a red beard or reddish beerd orange, just basically,
Speaker 1: and then he's got long orange hair, red hair, but
Speaker 1: then it's shaved on the sides. But it almost makes
Speaker 1: him look like he's half bald, and this whole thing
Speaker 1: of like, well, where do you where do you like
Speaker 1: to hang out?
Speaker 3: He's like here.
Speaker 1: And by that point in the movie, I know we're
Speaker 1: almost an hour in, and I am laughing my ass
Speaker 1: off every single time, and I just know it traps
Speaker 1: me with this rhythm that it's got, and I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, I'm stuck. I'm here with this movie,
Speaker 1: and I am just in love with everything that is
Speaker 1: happening right now.
Speaker 6: I thought that we were going to do a threesome. No,
Speaker 6: you said we were going to do a threesun right,
Speaker 6: I just said I wanted to meet her. And the
Speaker 6: woman's there and she's just kind of half heartedly waves
Speaker 6: so many New York scenarios.
Speaker 1: After she meets Chris, they's part from each other on
Speaker 1: the subway, and you get that like it's almost a
Speaker 1: romantic comedy type of thing where it's like, now is
Speaker 1: she going to send the guy a text? Kind of thing?
Speaker 1: But I love the way that that shot where it's
Speaker 1: like the train on the left hand side of the screen,
Speaker 1: everything's out of focus, and then she finally walks into focus,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Oh, that's really nice. This is
Speaker 1: very I mean, just the ideas. It's not just the like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I need to, Like, I'm not
Speaker 1: defending it for you guys, you know, because you're on board,
Speaker 1: but like I'm just like, I feel like there's so
Speaker 1: much thought and so much purpose to every single one
Speaker 1: of these shots and scenes that it just tickles me
Speaker 1: to see this movie play out.
Speaker 3: And clearly she had very little money. Clearly this is
Speaker 3: made on a shoe string, yet it is beautifully made technically. Again,
Speaker 3: that image is a very striking image. I also really
Speaker 3: noticed it, and I think it's saying something about her
Speaker 3: where she is as a character, and that having this
Speaker 3: human connection throws her out of focus, and then she
Speaker 3: kind of comes into even stronger focus and she's suddenly
Speaker 3: on different part of the frame than she's normally been.
Speaker 3: So I feel like it's a very beautifully made film.
Speaker 3: It looks great a lot of the time. The sound
Speaker 3: design that you mentioned is terrific, and yet I don't
Speaker 3: know what they made it for, but it was clearly nothing,
Speaker 3: but it was clearly made up for by the fact
Speaker 3: it was done with so much love and thought that
Speaker 3: no money didn't matter.
Speaker 1: That's part of the charm I feel, you know. That's
Speaker 1: why I was asking like, does this count as a
Speaker 1: mubble core movie, because again, I don't think I've really
Speaker 1: seen any of those movies, but I've seen clips from
Speaker 1: enough trailers from enough that I'm just like, this feels
Speaker 1: like that kind of low budget aesthetic. My impression is
Speaker 1: that they're usually boring, and so when this started, I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh shit, is this going to be
Speaker 1: a boring movie? But instead, it just for me just
Speaker 1: totally turned everything on its head where I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: this is so absurd that it it hits me in
Speaker 1: just the right way. Like I said, I love those
Speaker 1: movies that I used to see it film, thus where
Speaker 1: it was just like, all right, yeah, this is playing
Speaker 1: on a whole different level than what I'm used to.
Speaker 1: This is so not a to B two C kind
Speaker 1: of thing, like you're saying, like, we kind of cut
Speaker 1: the beginnings and ends of almost every scene, so we
Speaker 1: kind of are dropped into the middle of stuff and
Speaker 1: it just plays out with that great captivating rhythm, and
Speaker 1: then we move on to the next one, and the
Speaker 1: next one and the next one, and each one seems
Speaker 1: to build and build and build, and then before I
Speaker 1: know it, I'm just like, oh, I'm seeing a real
Speaker 1: story play out here. I actually care about these people
Speaker 1: who normally would be very two dimensional, but instead I'm
Speaker 1: just getting more and more layers added onto them with
Speaker 1: every single scene that we have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, it's sort of the opposite of what
Speaker 3: I think of as mumble core. And like, I'm not
Speaker 3: some big expert on mumblecore, but most of the things
Speaker 3: I've seen that were labeled mumblecore, either write critics or
Speaker 3: by the themselves had a shambling quality about them. They
Speaker 3: feel it. It all feels like literally the way mumbling
Speaker 3: feels like. It feels like, Oh, the fun of this
Speaker 3: is it's just like we kind of have a camera
Speaker 3: randomly there and it's all handheld, and it can be
Speaker 3: wonderful if the actors are wonderful, and it can be
Speaker 3: really really really boring if they're not. This reminds me
Speaker 3: more of Shantile Ackerman than it does of like what
Speaker 3: I think of as mumblecore. I mean, this feels very deliberate,
Speaker 3: very I mean, this didn't make me think of some
Speaker 3: of Chanta Ackerman's early movies. You know, framings very intentional.
Speaker 3: It's very so to me, it's really kind of almost
Speaker 3: the opposite. It's a low budget, yes, I mean mumblecore
Speaker 3: is all low budget and not famous actors and all that,
Speaker 3: But in terms of style, this feels way more deliberate
Speaker 3: and thought out and just thoughtful filmmaking. You know, I
Speaker 3: think people think of mumblecore and they know for me,
Speaker 3: but I think for a lot of people that feels like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was just kind of we kind of improvised everything
Speaker 3: and what came out came out, and this doesn't have
Speaker 3: that feeling for me at all.
Speaker 6: Yeah, mumblecore was more like emotional driven, thoughtful, dialogue heavy.
Speaker 6: This has the absurdity, which I think takes it out
Speaker 6: of that, so it's kind of a whole different feeling
Speaker 6: to it. I will confess that at one point I
Speaker 6: own the domain mumbleporn dot com, but never did anything
Speaker 6: with it. Unfortunately. Maybe I'll take that on again.
Speaker 1: I guess this is the mumble porn movie. Yeah, his
Speaker 1: musical performance where he's just pouring water while Chris this
Speaker 1: is She's just like so happy watching this performance and
Speaker 1: like sending him little you know, the little text.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 1: You were so great, and I'm like, this is wonderful.
Speaker 1: It's like so sweet. It's like that's the heart of
Speaker 1: the movie finally comes in when they have their relationship
Speaker 1: like you're talking about, and I just I love him
Speaker 1: and I going back to her parents, I'm so curious
Speaker 1: how much they were in on the joke. They act
Speaker 1: the same way that everybody else in this movie acts,
Speaker 1: with that very deadpan type of way, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: how much are they in on the joke of this
Speaker 1: as far? I was like, you know, does she tell
Speaker 1: her mom like okay, these are your lines? Like how
Speaker 1: much of an actress is her mom? Because some of
Speaker 1: those moments, again are wonderful, like just that absurdist thing
Speaker 1: where it's like sunset at seven thirty tonight, tomorrow it's
Speaker 1: going to set at seven twenty nine, And I'm emitting
Speaker 1: like the two minute or minute long pause in between
Speaker 1: those lines where it's just like you're sitting there watching
Speaker 1: them and just seeing how boring their life is. And yes,
Speaker 1: again very very true to life where you're just like, Okay, yep,
Speaker 1: I've had the same conversation with my own mother.
Speaker 6: And a little bit I know about that is that
Speaker 6: she had kind of been using them for dialogue practice
Speaker 6: and thought that they kind of worked in the role.
Speaker 6: And then there's an acting coach she works with and
Speaker 6: she did a lot of work with them.
Speaker 3: No, it is it interesting Actually two acting coaches credited
Speaker 3: at the end of the film, which is interesting on
Speaker 3: a really tiny movie. So that made me assume that, yeah, people,
Speaker 3: that some of these people were real people, and that
Speaker 3: she had the acting coaches. I mean, I projected a
Speaker 3: whole story because it's like, Okay, directing your own parents
Speaker 3: is so laden with so that maybe having coaches to
Speaker 3: help be a go between a little bit, so it
Speaker 3: wouldn't be you telling your dad or mom what to do.
Speaker 3: I have no idea if that's the case, But when
Speaker 3: I saw that, I thought, oh, that's interesting, because yeah,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't want to try to direct my parents, but
Speaker 3: maybe if there was somebody else helping, they could kind
Speaker 3: of make that bridge happen.
Speaker 1: What do you guys think of the title? You know,
Speaker 1: this title that I keep tripping over, and if I
Speaker 1: didn't have it written in my notes right in front
Speaker 1: of me, I would not be able to say a
Speaker 1: second time. What do you think of the feeling that
Speaker 1: the time for doing something has passed means because they
Speaker 1: do talk about it. At one point she and Chris, Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean for me, it's just a sense of regret
Speaker 6: that I didn't do that thing that should have happened earlier.
Speaker 6: And then there's that moment with Chris where she says
Speaker 6: in explaining, it's clear she hasn't gotten the meaning of it,
Speaker 6: because she says something more that he equates to I
Speaker 6: just don't want to do something.
Speaker 3: I feel like that's part of why I do take
Speaker 3: the end as tragic is the title, because to me,
Speaker 3: that when you think of this story with that title
Speaker 3: and she's lying in that bed and there's no human
Speaker 3: connection and there's no movement, I kind of go like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's what she's saying. This story has led to the
Speaker 3: feeling the time of doing something is passed that she's like,
Speaker 3: had this moment, she could have kind of built something
Speaker 3: more nice and more human, and he let that pass,
Speaker 3: which is again maybe my spin on it, but that
Speaker 3: I feel like the title was something else. I might
Speaker 3: more feel like that ending was maybe something different. But
Speaker 3: when I think of that last image and then that title,
Speaker 3: I oh, oh yeah, you're definitely thinks that's a pretty
Speaker 3: sad combination.
Speaker 6: I try.
Speaker 1: I had to get Joanna to come on the show,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately the feeling that the time for doing something
Speaker 1: like an interview has passed for her. So she says
Speaker 1: that she's doing less interviews on this particular film these days,
Speaker 1: and which I can understand what is she doing. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure she does have a website. I reached out
Speaker 1: to her through her website, so she got back to me,
Speaker 1: which was very nice of her to do that, and
Speaker 1: she just was like, thanks for your email. The interest
Speaker 1: in the movie going to pass on this as I'm
Speaker 1: doing less interviews on the film these days, but I
Speaker 1: appreciate you thinking of me.
Speaker 6: I believe she's looking for funding on a new project,
Speaker 6: but I don't know much more than that. And she
Speaker 6: maybe talked out on the movie.
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of interviews with her. It felt
Speaker 1: like kind of made a little bit of a splash
Speaker 1: obviously headlined Seneking twenty twenty four, but then Keithie were
Speaker 1: saying there's no physical release that you can find with this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never been able to find a DVD or
Speaker 3: Blu ray or anything like that, and it's you know,
Speaker 3: which is just frustrating. I mean that has become more
Speaker 3: common as physical media has become less dominant. But you know,
Speaker 3: it's a film I would want to own, and I
Speaker 3: feel like it's a film that would reward repeated viewings.
Speaker 3: And the fact you have to chase it around on
Speaker 3: various streaming services where it is for a month and
Speaker 3: then disappears, it's kind of sad. I feel like it's
Speaker 3: a film that if it had a physical release, maybe
Speaker 3: might help people find it and pass it on to
Speaker 3: other people. And I don't know, I think it's really
Speaker 3: a special movie. And I always feel very as somebody
Speaker 3: who I collect movies, so you know, and I love
Speaker 3: movies and I love revisiting special movies. So it always
Speaker 3: makes me sad when there's a film like this that
Speaker 3: I feel is so unique and you can't own it.
Speaker 3: As far as I could find, and I'm pretty good
Speaker 3: at trying to track things down.
Speaker 6: It's currently if anyone's just bought into the Disney HBO
Speaker 6: Hulu bundle, you can watch.
Speaker 1: It for free for free, for however much, it.
Speaker 6: For however long. But yeah, it's sad. It's sad that
Speaker 6: we're not getting the physical releases so much anymore. It'd
Speaker 6: be a perfect right. I totally agree, So maybe get
Speaker 6: onto them.
Speaker 1: It's on as far as I can see at the moment.
Speaker 1: You can get it on Apple TV for five dollars,
Speaker 1: Fandango at Home for three dollars, or Amazon Prime for
Speaker 1: three dollars as well. Those are probably rental prices. Owning's different,
Speaker 1: and owning doesn't really exist anymore with those because they
Speaker 1: can take them away whenever they want to. Yeah, I agree,
Speaker 1: a physical release of this would be really good. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad to have watched this and to be able
Speaker 1: to hopefully spread the word about this a little bit more,
Speaker 1: because this one completely other than seeing that it played
Speaker 1: at your festival, Lisa, I was completely unaware of this
Speaker 1: movie at all, didn't read anything about it. Obviously, my
Speaker 1: more film literate friends went under their radar. So hopefully
Speaker 1: I'll have a lot of my friends coming out for
Speaker 1: me after this and be like, no, you idiot, I
Speaker 1: told you about this could have happened, but this is Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so wonderful to make this connection with this movie,
Speaker 1: which is essentially a movie about misconnections.
Speaker 3: It seemed to me to even grow on a second viewing.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's one of those movies that and it's
Speaker 3: why owning it would be nice. I feel like there's
Speaker 3: some movies that you watch and you go, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: and you get it. I feel like she's working on
Speaker 3: a complex enough board of life that it's a film
Speaker 3: you can really return to and see more things in.
Speaker 3: And now those are to me are special movies too.
Speaker 3: I hope this will inspires people to hear her work,
Speaker 3: and I hope she continues to do stuff. I feel
Speaker 3: like she's a really really unique, interesting voice, and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping that people will support her enough that she can
Speaker 3: continue to make movies.
Speaker 1: I now want to go back and track down all
Speaker 1: of these movies that you're talking about, especially that documentary,
Speaker 1: because when I saw that title of I Hate Myself
Speaker 1: with the smiley face after it, It's like, Yep, that.
Speaker 3: Speaks to me.
Speaker 1: I can really see where you're coming from with something
Speaker 1: like that. The other thing I was talking about, you
Speaker 1: know these lines, like you could reach the trailer with
Speaker 1: all different lines and they would all work. This feels
Speaker 1: like a movie that had I seen this when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, I would be quoting it all the time.
Speaker 1: And because there are so many good little lines in
Speaker 1: here where you're just like, if something reminded me of this,
Speaker 1: I would have this line to say about it, Like
Speaker 1: this feels like something that if you watch this with
Speaker 1: a group of friends enough times to your point, like
Speaker 1: a nice physical release would be great. You could start
Speaker 1: to work this into your lexicon because it's just that
Speaker 1: well done.
Speaker 6: Maybe a whole line of T shirts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if she would, like even on her website, she
Speaker 3: could do that. I have a feeling she's not that
Speaker 3: kind of person. I feel like she's not somebody. I
Speaker 3: have a feeling she's not somebody who's busy thinking about
Speaker 3: clever ways to market for like stuff. It just doesn't
Speaker 3: come off as who she is. But yes, you could
Speaker 3: make T shirts out of a lot of moments in
Speaker 3: this movie. That would be great.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, let's go ahead and take a break
Speaker 1: and play a preview for next week's show right after
Speaker 1: these messages. When life pulls you down, Love lifts you up.
Speaker 1: Watch Regretting You on Digital Now from Paramount Pictures. Looking
Speaker 1: for something superior to streaming a place with more than
Speaker 1: five times the selection available on all streaming services combined.
Speaker 1: Check out Scarecrow Videos rent by mail service so like
Speaker 1: from an unparalleled collection of over one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: thousand films, again Blu rays, four k's and DVDs delivered
Speaker 1: directly to your door. Get in on it now at
Speaker 1: scarecrow dot com and rediscover the wonders of physical media.
Speaker 1: The entire Yellowstone series is now available on DVD and
Speaker 1: Blu Ray. Dive deeper into the Dutton's origin story with
Speaker 1: over nineteen hours of bonus content, including behind the scenes
Speaker 1: and featurettes with cast and crew. Generations of Blood have
Speaker 1: led to this Yellowstone. The complete series own a piece
Speaker 1: of the legacy, now on DVD and Blu Ray.
Speaker 9: The first Kursaur film I think I ever saw was
Speaker 9: The Throne of Blood.
Speaker 3: On the Z channel.
Speaker 10: Fleeting Filmy Iva Tolone, there was a picture called Spider's Stratagem.
Speaker 9: Tan Begging Bo Wild Bunch.
Speaker 1: The Straw Dogs, Uh Bringing the Head of Alfredo Garcias.
Speaker 6: The story of adele.
Speaker 9: H Subty Lights, Rear Window, Midnight Cowboy Crew Solo means
Speaker 9: the same.
Speaker 3: Johnny Guitar, The Onion Fields, The Other Man Fell to Earth.
Speaker 6: Every film that Marlon Branda was ever.
Speaker 9: In channel channels on Our Salvation, uncharged territory.
Speaker 1: Like tomp Thom's and the Jungles.
Speaker 9: Jerry Harvey, Jerry Harvey programmer, obsessive programmer, dark negative and
Speaker 9: Maverick Nurtery.
Speaker 3: Skating that line between insanity and genius.
Speaker 1: What do you think the secret of the Channel six?
Speaker 5: Sass it?
Speaker 6: I don't know. If I told you then wouldn't be
Speaker 6: a secret.
Speaker 2: My father says, there's only right and wrong, good and evil,
Speaker 2: nothing in between.
Speaker 1: It isn't that simple, is it.
Speaker 5: No, it isn't. It should be, but it isn't okay.
Speaker 4: Next News Time six o six saw Hollywood story with
Speaker 4: a tragic ending.
Speaker 3: This morning.
Speaker 4: The bodies of Z Channel programmer Jerry Harvey and his wife,
Speaker 4: Darry Rudolph were discovered Saturday night in their Westwood home.
Speaker 4: Police report Harvey shot and killed Rudolph, his wife of
Speaker 4: two years, before turning the gun on himself. The motive
Speaker 4: is unknown. Harvey had been chief programmer at Z Channel,
Speaker 4: which is known throughout Los Angeles for it's eclectic and
Speaker 4: innovative programming. Both Harvey and Rudolph were thirty nine years old.
Speaker 1: As right, we'll be back with a new year, and
Speaker 1: they look at the documentary Z Channel a magnificent obsession.
Speaker 1: Until then, I want to thank my co host Lisa
Speaker 1: and Keith. So Keith, what is the latest with you?
Speaker 3: Sir?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: You know I have the same answer all the time,
Speaker 3: which is, yeah, I'm chasing financing for a few things.
Speaker 3: But as I've gotten older, I'm also trying not to
Speaker 3: worry about it too much and just enjoy the moment,
Speaker 3: enjoy mentoring and helping younger filmmakers. And if I ever
Speaker 3: get any of my projects done, I'll be feel very lucky.
Speaker 3: And if I don't, it's okay too.
Speaker 1: Weren't you doing a teaching at Sundance the last time
Speaker 1: that we talked.
Speaker 3: I go to the Sundance Film Lab every summer and
Speaker 3: teach there. I've been doing it for like twenty years,
Speaker 3: or done it twenty times on and off, but mostly
Speaker 3: on since the late nineties, and it's it's probably the
Speaker 3: greatest single through work thing in my life because it's
Speaker 3: a chance to work with some amazing young filmmakers, and
Speaker 3: the other people there to mentor are like the most incredible.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've got like Ed Harris advising about acting,
Speaker 3: You've got Bob Elswit talking about cematography, You've got I
Speaker 3: mean it's so it's I just get so much out
Speaker 3: of it every year. That is my favorite thing. But
Speaker 3: so that's a yeah, that was just the timing. Last
Speaker 3: time was around when I was doing it, But I
Speaker 3: do that every year and it just is the most joyful,
Speaker 3: wonderful experience. But yeah, I've got, you know, the stuff
Speaker 3: I'm working on with my wife. Were trying to put
Speaker 3: together things and we'll see. But I feel like that
Speaker 3: as I've gotten older, I've also learned that the way
Speaker 3: to deal with the business is just to go, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm going to enjoy my life and things will happen
Speaker 3: when they happen. Basically, otherwise you will your head will
Speaker 3: explode and Lisa, how about yourself?
Speaker 6: Well, actually that's the attitude I've been trying to embrace
Speaker 6: as well. So I'm glad you're putting it out there.
Speaker 6: Twenty twenty five was just ugh, wow. Not much happened
Speaker 6: on the Senecon front. We were supposed to go up
Speaker 6: lost a venue. Then that kind of ran into personal
Speaker 6: things and political things, and I kind of got sidetracked
Speaker 6: to things like organizing No King's rallies and would make
Speaker 6: energies into that. However, we have a whole film free
Speaker 6: freeway full of titles to put up to our next
Speaker 6: synec Ink, which we're looking at probably I keep kicking
Speaker 6: it down the road, but April twenty twenty six, so
Speaker 6: it'd be our next in person and then doing some
Speaker 6: virtual on top of that, so look for Cyneconk to
Speaker 6: finish regrouping.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'll be able to make it out
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six, but I'd love to come out
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty seven and just see the festival again
Speaker 1: because it is always such a fun time.
Speaker 6: And it's so great getting all those people in the
Speaker 6: same room. Logistically it's not as easy as a virtual,
Speaker 6: but yeah, having that live community together is something. Just
Speaker 6: want to also thank Johanna for being a part of
Speaker 6: our festival. She did, she came out for the Q
Speaker 6: and A was very gracious with all the other filmmakers
Speaker 6: and the audience. So that's the other aspect to live screenings.
Speaker 1: Well, thanks again folks for being on the show. Oh
Speaker 1: thanks to everybody for listening. Want support physical media and
Speaker 1: get great movies in the mail, head over to scarecrow
Speaker 1: dot com and try Scarecrow Videos Incredible print by mail service,
Speaker 1: the largest publicly accessible collection in the world. You'll find
Speaker 1: films there entirely unavailable elsewhere. Get what you want, when
Speaker 1: you want it, without the scrolling. If you want to
Speaker 1: hear more of me shooting off my mouth, check out
Speaker 1: some of the other shows that I work on. They
Speaker 1: are all available at weirdingweedmedia dot com. Thanks especially to
Speaker 1: our Patreon community. If you want to join the community,
Speaker 1: visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Everyday donation we
Speaker 1: get helps the Projection Booth take over the world.
Speaker 2: When the union's inspiration, through the worker's blood, shall run.
Speaker 2: There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun. Yet,
Speaker 2: what on earth is bigger than the feeble strength of
Speaker 2: one but the union make the straw.
Speaker 10: It's a mighty long time since the early days when
Speaker 10: it took a bunch of tickets together raised, we've built
Speaker 10: a union ten millions strong. We talk to the bosses
Speaker 10: how to get along with the working class, more respectful life,
Speaker 10: friendly conferences, and mutual understanding. You could just take a
Speaker 10: look at a union town. Folks don't walk the streets
Speaker 10: with their heads bound down. You see clean city and
Speaker 10: happy kids. He a mighty proud of what the union did.
Speaker 10: More wages, better hours, folks have more time to live together.
Speaker 10: But we've been so damn busy looking to access we
Speaker 10: didn't watch Congress much enough to taxes. We were wheeling
Speaker 10: and dealing and steaming and cranking. We didn't keep our
Speaker 10: eyes out on buzzards like ranking playing chief politics.
Speaker 2: Full taxed buzzards or clip.
Speaker 10: His wings now, don't you thinks? But it's a hell
Speaker 10: of a no. The filler buster on the soldiers vote
Speaker 10: to make long speeches and shed hot tears about the sad,
Speaker 10: sad state of the war provats. That's Congress for you, though, week.
Speaker 3: In week, our.
Speaker 2: Week all over.
Speaker 10: If you want to know what I think of it all,
Speaker 10: we ought to stick together when we vote this fall.
Speaker 10: When the count of ballots, there's a lot of us
Speaker 10: and million workers can make a hell of us change. Congress,
Speaker 10: make them respect us like management does. Yes, we've organized,
Speaker 10: got better conditions. We pitched in together, made the world communitions.
Speaker 10: Now we got to vote from men who will right
Speaker 10: all wrong. Put some guys in Congress who will sing
Speaker 10: our songs.
Speaker 2: Devery for it.
Speaker 5: Avery, for it all, for it
Speaker 10: All, you wan