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Speaker 11: Good Evening, a doctor stabbed his two small children forty
Speaker 11: six times to punish his cheating wife. At trial, he
Speaker 11: was found not criminally responsible because he was depressed and suicidal.
Speaker 11: After six months in hospital, he was released. The murdered
Speaker 11: children's mother was outraged, but how far would she go
Speaker 11: to avenge her children's deaths. The story that's featured this
Speaker 11: evening is death Bedside Manner, Psychiatrist Poison. Canadian Courtroom with
Speaker 11: yours truly se. Turcott was born on April twenty first,
Speaker 11: nineteen seventy two. He worked with Isabelle Gaston at Hotel
Speaker 11: de de Saint Jerome Hospital as a cardiologist. He fell
Speaker 11: in love with Gaston in Quebec City in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 11: They moved in together in two thousand, but the relationship
Speaker 11: was characterized by domestic violence from both parties. Turcott moved out,
Speaker 11: but soon reconciled with Gaston after promising to work on
Speaker 11: their relationship. The relationship improved and Turcott proposed to Gaston
Speaker 11: at Mount Washington, New Hampshire. Gaston accepted his proposal and
Speaker 11: they were soon married. Their son, Olivier, was born in
Speaker 11: two thousand and four, and then two years later their
Speaker 11: daughter Anne Sophie. In mid January two thousand and nine,
Speaker 11: shortly before Gaston and Turcott planned to leave for a
Speaker 11: trip to Mexico with their children, Turcott was informed that
Speaker 11: his wife was having an affair with their personal trainer
Speaker 11: and friend, Martin Hewitt. Hewitt's girlfriend, Patricia Guerreau, notified Turcott
Speaker 11: of the affair and provided emails exchange between Hewitt and Gaston.
Speaker 11: Turcott and Gaston decided to separate. Two days after coming
Speaker 11: home from their trip, Turcott left the family residence. Gaston
Speaker 11: and the children stayed in the house, and both parents
Speaker 11: agreed to share custody. During the separation between conversations between
Speaker 11: Turcott and Gaston were often very heated. On February eighth,
Speaker 11: Turcott found out that his children had been to a
Speaker 11: Quebec carnival with their mother and Woitt. The carnival had
Speaker 11: special meaning to him since he had lived in Quebec
Speaker 11: City and attended the carnival for many years. I could
Speaker 11: not accept that Martin spent time with my children as
Speaker 11: if I was being replaced. The next day, a former
Speaker 11: neighbor told Turcott that the day he left who it
Speaker 11: had spent the night and had been staying there almost
Speaker 11: every night for the past two weeks. Turcott said the
Speaker 11: information made him flip, and on February tenth he went
Speaker 11: to the family residence to fetch his son's sweater and
Speaker 11: found Hewett in the kitchen. Turcott said, you stole my wife,
Speaker 11: you betrayed me, you were my friend, and he punched
Speaker 11: to it in the face before leaving the house. On
Speaker 11: February twentieth, Turcott dropped by the house again, and this
Speaker 11: time Gaston ordered him to leave, telling him you are
Speaker 11: going to stop controlling my life now. If I want to,
Speaker 11: I can change the children's names, I can get custody.
Speaker 11: I can move anywhere in Quebec. That day, while he
Speaker 11: was at work, colleagues noted no outward signs of distress.
Speaker 11: He exchanged emails with Gaston and also picked up his
Speaker 11: children from daycare and school. He telephoned Gaston later and
Speaker 11: she informed him that she had changed the locks on
Speaker 11: the house and consulted with a lawyer. He replied, if
Speaker 11: you want war, you will get it. After putting the
Speaker 11: children to bed, he read dated emails from Gaston and Hewitt. Afterwards,
Speaker 11: he began searching the Internet for sites with information on
Speaker 11: how best to commit suicide. The next morning, February twenty one,
Speaker 11: two thousand and nine, two police officers followed up on
Speaker 11: a call placed to nine point one after the respondent
Speaker 11: had expressed suicidal thoughts to his mother. When they entered
Speaker 11: the respondent's home, the officers discovered the bodies of two children,
Speaker 11: a boy and a girl, in their beds, stabbed forty
Speaker 11: six times in their upper bodies, twenty seven times for
Speaker 11: Olivier and nineteen times for an Sophie. Turcott was discovered
Speaker 11: under his bed, covered in vomit and blood. He told
Speaker 11: police he drunk windshield wipe or fluid and wanted to die.
Speaker 11: He was taken to the Saint Jerome Health and Social
Speaker 11: Service Center, where doctors there realized the man was one
Speaker 11: of their colleagues, a cardiologist. Hospital director Francois Verin confirmed
Speaker 11: the man was having marital problems with his wife, who
Speaker 11: was also a doctor at the hospital. The two had
Speaker 11: worked there together for about six years. Doctors decided to
Speaker 11: transferre Turcott to a hospital in Montreal, where he remained
Speaker 11: in stable condition. Quebec Provincial police took over the investigation
Speaker 11: returned to the scene. Autopsies on the siblings were expected
Speaker 11: to take place in Montreal to determine the cause of death.
Speaker 11: Police contacted the children's mother, who was on a ski trip.
Speaker 11: Gee Turcott was charged with two counts of first degree
Speaker 11: murdered for the deaths of his two children. The trial
Speaker 11: began on April twelfth, two thousand and eleven. Defense lawyer
Speaker 11: Pierre Poupar told the jurors at the start of the
Speaker 11: trial that they'd have to determine whether the once prominent
Speaker 11: cardiologist intended to kill his children. What's really at stake
Speaker 11: is what did he have in his head why? Poupar said,
Speaker 11: did Guy Turcott, a human being, cause the death of
Speaker 11: his kids with the intention of doing so? In a
Speaker 11: statement filed by his defense lawyer Pierre Poupar, Turcott admitted
Speaker 11: he committed an i legal act and caused the death
Speaker 11: of his two children, but claimed it wasn't a premanitated act.
Speaker 11: Poupar told the jurors that they will have to determine
Speaker 11: turqu he got, state of mind at the time of
Speaker 11: the crimes, and whether he knew what he was doing.
Speaker 11: The defense's first witness was Turcott's own mother, Marguerite Fournier,
Speaker 11: who presented the jury with a booklet of photos of
Speaker 11: Turcott and his children, depicting the kids at play, at Christmas,
Speaker 11: on birthdays, on outings, and when traveling. Each photo brought
Speaker 11: quiet sobbing from the accused. Turcott's mother testified about the
Speaker 11: last phone conversation she had with her son before the
Speaker 11: children were killed. Turcott lamented his failed marriage to Isabel Gaston,
Speaker 11: from whom he had separated just a month earlier. Fournier
Speaker 11: said her son sounded depressed and told her Gaston was
Speaker 11: cheating on him. It has been going on for weeks.
Speaker 11: It was happening in my house, in my bed. His
Speaker 11: mother advised him to look forward, but her son didn't
Speaker 11: seem to hear her. But then he said something that
Speaker 11: struck her as out of character. I love you. Tell Dad,
Speaker 11: I love him. She remembered her son repeating those words
Speaker 11: over and over during the hour long conversation. When I
Speaker 11: heard that discourse, I was afraid he was about to
Speaker 11: take his own life. Fearful he'd been drinking. Fournie wanted
Speaker 11: to drive to her sons that night, but her husband
Speaker 11: had told her to wait. The next morning, she drove
Speaker 11: to the house, finding the shades drawn, no sound coming
Speaker 11: from inside, and no one answering the phone or the
Speaker 11: loud knocking on the door. Maybe my husband still had
Speaker 11: hope things were okay, but I had no hope at all,
Speaker 11: she testified. Fournier's chilling nine one one call pleading with
Speaker 11: police to hurry to the rented home, was played in court.
Speaker 11: Turcotte sobbed in court as Crown Prosecutor Claudia Carboneau outline
Speaker 11: the details of the double slaying. A crime scene technician
Speaker 11: gave jurors a view inside the home, two knives, two
Speaker 11: blood stained beds, a near empty windshield washer container in
Speaker 11: a bathroom, and vomit on the floors. The couple's life
Speaker 11: coach recounted that Turcott had told them the little boy
Speaker 11: pleaded with his father to stop. He was stabbed twenty
Speaker 11: seven times, while autopsy results showed the five year old
Speaker 11: Olivier tried to defend himself from the attack. Witnesses who
Speaker 11: encountered Turcott at the hospital following his arrest told jurors
Speaker 11: he asked not to receive medical treatment, with a nurse,
Speaker 11: Chantelle Dulmo, testifying that he said he killed his children
Speaker 11: to spite his wife. He said he wanted to make
Speaker 11: her angry, and the way to do so was to
Speaker 11: take away from her what was most precious, the concentrade.
Speaker 11: The concentration of methanol in Guy Turcotte's blood was the
Speaker 11: equivalent of between three and five beers for an average
Speaker 11: sized man. A defense witness testified. The same witness. Toxicologist
Speaker 11: Anne Marie Fauchaier testified she found a potentially fatal dose
Speaker 11: of methanol in Turcotte's system. The day after the February
Speaker 11: two thousand and nine slayings, under cross examination by the
Speaker 11: Crown prosecutor, fuq said she estimated someone who has consumed
Speaker 11: that much beer is conscious, coherent, and able to have
Speaker 11: discussions and negotiate. Fauquher said such a person is quite
Speaker 11: capable of doing what he has to do, but had
Speaker 11: noted in her initial testimony one's level awareness can be
Speaker 11: reduced after consuming such levels of methanol. She explained that
Speaker 11: the effects of methanol and the human body are similar
Speaker 11: to those from the consumption of ethanol, the alcohol found
Speaker 11: in wine or beer, but with less of an impact.
Speaker 11: Prosecutor Rene Veret questioned her experience on methanol intoxication, with
Speaker 11: Faquar replying that she had worked only on three or
Speaker 11: four similar cases and the only survivor was Turcott. Evidence presented,
Speaker 11: though had not established the quantity of washer fluid he
Speaker 11: had consumed. Later, Claude Relard, an expert in neuropharmacology, said
Speaker 11: methanol does result in memory loss. He referred to a
Speaker 11: scientific article regarding a mass poisoning in New York in
Speaker 11: nineteen fifty three, where people had been drinking a mix
Speaker 11: of fake whiskey and methyl alcohol or methanol. Several people
Speaker 11: ended up going to hospital to be treated and had
Speaker 11: suffered major memory loss. Some couldn't recall setting foot in
Speaker 11: the hospital how they got there, but they appeared rational
Speaker 11: when observed by medical personnel. On May ninth, Ghee Turcott
Speaker 11: took the stand, Speaking slowly but clearly. Turcott spoke about
Speaker 11: a childhood where he was the awkward outcast, about his
Speaker 11: eleven year journey to become a cardiologist, and how he
Speaker 11: came to meet his now estranged wife. He was born
Speaker 11: third of six children in a suburb south of Montreal
Speaker 11: and grew up in a devout Catholic family in an
Speaker 11: overflowing house where there wasn't much communication. He was not
Speaker 11: very popular, not very athletic, and his early years were tough.
Speaker 11: He was the target of jeering and always the last
Speaker 11: person to be chose on teams. I was a little
Speaker 11: guy everyone laughed at and made fun of. I wore
Speaker 11: big glasses and I was timid. He said. He had
Speaker 11: a number of relationships, but everything changed when he met
Speaker 11: Isabelle Gaston at happy hour in a Quebec city bar
Speaker 11: in nineteen ninety nine. I was attracted to her right away.
Speaker 11: We spent the whole night together and I fell in
Speaker 11: love with her that day. He described Gaston as having
Speaker 11: lots of charm, smiling, full of energy, intelligent and a leader.
Speaker 11: I found myself lucky to be with this girl. I
Speaker 11: was surprised she was attracted to a guy like me.
Speaker 11: I think I'm pretty ordinary, and she was just so hot.
Speaker 11: He told of the couple splitting once in two thousand
Speaker 11: and one following an argument where punches were thrown by
Speaker 11: both of them, but after a few months the relationship
Speaker 11: was rekindled, and not long after he proposed to her
Speaker 11: on Mount Washington. His demeanor on the stand was more
Speaker 11: composed and earlier in the day, when he sobbed as
Speaker 11: his lawyer's tabled photos of him playing with his children
Speaker 11: and celebrating birthdays and holidays. In his testimony, Turcotte also
Speaker 11: recalled disordered scenes of the murder event. He is standing
Speaker 11: in his son's room. He has a knife in his
Speaker 11: hands and stabs his son. His son cries out no
Speaker 11: and moves away from him. He realizes that he is
Speaker 11: hurting him. He panics and stabs him more. He has
Speaker 11: a similar memory with respect to his daughter. He sees
Speaker 11: himself in the bathroom, he drinks windshield wipe or fluid.
Speaker 11: He has blood on his hands, he has hurt his
Speaker 11: children and looks for the knife to stab himself in
Speaker 11: the heart, but cannot find it on the stand. The
Speaker 11: Crown asked Turcott about a phone call he made to
Speaker 11: his colleagues at Hotel the hospital after he was arrested
Speaker 11: and jailed. In the call, Turcott mentioned his desire to
Speaker 11: collect the check for three hundred and fifty three dollars
Speaker 11: and that he had wanted to leave his calculator to
Speaker 11: a co worker. Turcott replied that at the time, after
Speaker 11: being in jail for eight days, he was having difficulty
Speaker 11: coping with flashbacks of the deaths of his children, and
Speaker 11: that he decided to kill himself, and before he ended
Speaker 11: his life, he wanted to make sure all his affairs
Speaker 11: were in order. The Crown also questioned Turkott about the
Speaker 11: events of the knight of the two killings and why
Speaker 11: he did not take his own life that night. You
Speaker 11: stabbed your children forty six times. Why didn't you have
Speaker 11: the courage and the strength to stab yourself even once?
Speaker 11: Asked the prosecutor, Turcotte said he won to stab himself
Speaker 11: but could not find a knife he used to kill
Speaker 11: his children. How did you not see the knives? How
Speaker 11: would you like me to explain it, replied Turcott, elaborating
Speaker 11: that his memory of the events of that night was
Speaker 11: still shaky. Previous witness had explained how a knife was
Speaker 11: found under Olivier's body, and that a second knife was
Speaker 11: found on the edge of a bathtub near Turcott's bedroom.
Speaker 11: Now finally testifying, Isabel gastonutun turned to her former husband
Speaker 11: in the prisoner's box. You weren't a bad father that
Speaker 11: I know, she said, sobbing, and I'll never say you
Speaker 11: were a bad father. Never. About half the courtroom wept
Speaker 11: while listening to Gaston's testimony. She testified that the couple
Speaker 11: always had its problems, but she never believed Turcott would
Speaker 11: ever hurt his own children. The testimony was so highly
Speaker 11: anticipated that members of the public began lining up an
Speaker 11: hour and a half before the courthouse opened just to
Speaker 11: get a seat. While she often broke down on the stand,
Speaker 11: Gostell plowed through nearly two hours of testimony, recalling the
Speaker 11: final moments with her children. She dressed Olivier the morning
Speaker 11: of February twenty and gave him a kiss as he
Speaker 11: went off to school. He waved back at her the
Speaker 11: final time. Gastall saw him a few hours later and
Speaker 11: Sophie would be opped off at daycare, But before setting off,
Speaker 11: Gaston scurried around the car for her daily exchange of
Speaker 11: a minimum of twenty kisses with the toddler, who was
Speaker 11: sitting in the child's seat. Do you know how much
Speaker 11: I love you, Gaston says, the little girl told her
Speaker 11: as they shared their kisses. The jury also heard that
Speaker 11: tensions had flared for an unteented and final time between
Speaker 11: Gaston and Turcotte when she had the locks changed at
Speaker 11: the home. She switched them following a number of run
Speaker 11: ins between her ex and her new boyfriend, Martin Woitt.
Speaker 11: She testified that Turcott was livid. You want a war,
Speaker 11: You'll get a war, she recalled him, saying over the phone.
Speaker 11: Gaston panicked at the threat, but she felt the warning
Speaker 11: was related to money. She ended up deciding to go
Speaker 11: on a girl's weekend northeast to Quebec City. The next day,
Speaker 11: the kids were found dead. About it on the news.
Speaker 11: I feel stupid for not thinking that he'd hurt the kids.
Speaker 11: Gastall said, I never thought for a second he'd do that. Gaston,
Speaker 11: an emergency room physician at Hotel the Hospital in Saint Jerome,
Speaker 11: also cried as she told the jury about her relationship
Speaker 11: with Turcotte, which began when they were medical students in
Speaker 11: nineteen ninety nine. From the beginning, we had our ups
Speaker 11: and downs, Gastell said, In ten years, I couldn't say
Speaker 11: it was all black or all white. The couple fought
Speaker 11: and fought a lot about everything from parenting and money
Speaker 11: to intimacy and kids extracurricular activities. Gaston said she tried
Speaker 11: to improve their relationship through reading self help books and
Speaker 11: employing a life coach. Despite the good that came with
Speaker 11: Olivier's birth in two thousand and three and and Sophie's
Speaker 11: in two thousand and five, there was plenty of bad.
Speaker 11: Gastall said. They separated once early on while dating, after
Speaker 11: she found gay porn on his computer. She found more
Speaker 11: gay porn again in two thousand and eight. Although she
Speaker 11: confronted him, Turcott vehemently denied being gay. That discovery, coupled
Speaker 11: with the arguments and a lack of intimacy in their
Speaker 11: marriage would be the beginning of the end, she said.
Speaker 11: Gaston began a new relationship with Hewitt, a personal trainer
Speaker 11: of theirs. It blossomed quickly, but she decided to keep
Speaker 11: it secret. I regret today not having told Ghee myself earlier,
Speaker 11: Gaston said, referring to how Turcott heard the news from
Speaker 11: a third party from Hewitt's X. I waited because of Anne,
Speaker 11: Sophie and Olivier. Gaston stated that she and Hewitt are
Speaker 11: still together. Gaston defended Turcott as a good father. While
Speaker 11: they were together, She said each contributed as a parent.
Speaker 11: Mothers and fathers don't always see eye to eye, but
Speaker 11: I think we were complimentary. Castal said even when the
Speaker 11: couple split, she had hopes they might still be friends.
Speaker 11: He said she wanted them to be a team to
Speaker 11: work together on raising the kids. She last spoke to
Speaker 11: Turcott on May seventeenth, two thousand and nine, when she
Speaker 11: called a psychiatric hospital in Montreal and operator transferred to call.
Speaker 11: Gaston hadn't gone to work that day and was thinking
Speaker 11: of committing suicide herself. She had already written the letter. First,
Speaker 11: She wanted to ask Turcott why why the kids? GHI
Speaker 11: I love them more than I love myself, she told them,
Speaker 11: He replied, according to her, me too. The judge had
Speaker 11: instructed jurors that acquittal was not an option, as Turcotta
Speaker 11: had admitted to stabbing his children and Sophie and Olivier
Speaker 11: in February two thousand and nine. The trial garnered unprecedented
Speaker 11: me the attention in Quebec, with members of the public
Speaker 11: line up for hours every day for a seat in
Speaker 11: the courtroom. Thirty nine witnesses testified, including Turcott, his parents, Gaston,
Speaker 11: and numerous mental health experts. The jury had to decide
Speaker 11: on one of four scenarios, first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter,
Speaker 11: or not criminally responsible by reason of mental illness. It
Speaker 11: reached the decision July fifth, on what would have been
Speaker 11: the jury's sixth full day of deliberations, rendering a verdict
Speaker 11: of not criminally responsible due to mental disorder adjustment disorder
Speaker 11: with anxiety and depressive moods. Isabella Gaston admitted to being
Speaker 11: astounded by the outcome, despite having prepared herself for all
Speaker 11: potential scenarios. With this verdict, my path will really not
Speaker 11: be easy, Gaston told reporters. The Saint Jerome, Quebec courtroom.
Speaker 11: I'm in shock. Even if it had been first degree murder,
Speaker 11: I could not have been satisfied because it would not
Speaker 11: have brought back my children in this life, she said.
Speaker 11: Gaston doesn't want an appeal and said she won't testify
Speaker 11: again for me and I speak for myself alone. It's over.
Speaker 11: I will never return to a trial. There was public
Speaker 11: outrage expressed in the media in the province of Quebec
Speaker 11: over the verdict, but in the rest of Canada the
Speaker 11: story didn't seem to resonate. News of the verdict did
Speaker 11: spread like wildfire on the Internet, however, with hundreds of
Speaker 11: people turning to Twitter and other social media to discuss
Speaker 11: the outcome. Several major Province of Quebec television personalities even
Speaker 11: weighed in to express their own personal disgust. Very very disappointing.
Speaker 11: Verdict criminally not responsible. I don't believe it, wrote Guy Lapage,
Speaker 11: host of a popular television talk show in Quebec, on
Speaker 11: his Twitter account. Another prominent Quebec TV personality, Julie Snyder,
Speaker 11: wrote that she was crying while thinking of the verdict.
Speaker 11: I'm astonished, she added. Veteran lawyer and former Quebec Crown
Speaker 11: Prosecutor Robert Lehay said the public's emotional response is not surprising,
Speaker 11: but it's important to remember that juries are not supposed
Speaker 11: to be populist. He said. Juries render justice based on evidence.
Speaker 11: They weighed the evidence, dissected it and decided at the
Speaker 11: end of the day and concluded reasonably and without emotion,
Speaker 11: le Hay said. Crown Attorney Claudia Carboneau said she would
Speaker 11: study the case before deciding whether to appeal. At this point,
Speaker 11: after a long trial, our thoughts are with an Sophie
Speaker 11: and Olivier and the family of an Sophie and Olivier,
Speaker 11: she said. Isabelle Gaston asked outside the courtroom to be
Speaker 11: left alone, that she could have for privacy again. Gaston
Speaker 11: in reporter she hopes a place after life exists where
Speaker 11: she can see her children again. I'd like a sign
Speaker 11: that they're all right, that they're happy, she said in tears.
Speaker 11: Dieter God's future is now up to a psychiatric review
Speaker 11: committee that will assess his state of mind and his
Speaker 11: risk to public safety. He'll undergo a series of psychiatric
Speaker 11: evowtion valuations at the Penel Institute in Montreal before the
Speaker 11: committee decides whether he needs to remain in custody. Senator
Speaker 11: Pierre Hugh Boi Boisvenue, who doubles as a victim's right advocate,
Speaker 11: has stated that jurors should be barred from sitting on
Speaker 11: complex murder cases in which a defendant pleads insanity. The
Speaker 11: senator also feels that the government should be concerned about
Speaker 11: a sharp rise in a number of not criminally responsible
Speaker 11: verdicts in Canadians courts. The senator made the comments after
Speaker 11: the latest verdict came down in the trial of former
Speaker 11: Quebec doctor Ghe Turcott, who admitted to fatally stabbing and
Speaker 11: mutilating his two children. Turcott said he suffered from anxiety,
Speaker 11: depression and suicidal thoughts amid a crumbling marriage. The cardiologists
Speaker 11: could be freed later this summer if the Criminal Review
Speaker 11: Board decides he's not a danger to himself or society.
Speaker 11: Federal Justice Department statistics show a startling increase in not
Speaker 11: criminally responsible verdicts of almost fifty percent in the last
Speaker 11: twenty years, a spike largely attributable to Quebec courts. These
Speaker 11: are disturbing statistics, said bozo Venu, who plans to raise
Speaker 11: the issue with Justice Minister Rob Nicholson. When some no
Speaker 11: one admits to having committed a crime, there is a
Speaker 11: responsibility that comes with it. Boys Venue said jurors in
Speaker 11: the Turcak case were barraged with conflicting testimony from psychiatrists
Speaker 11: who made their job extremely difficult. Some countries have chosen
Speaker 11: to have psychiatric evidence provided by three experts who are
Speaker 11: independent of the crown or the defense, he said. Statistics
Speaker 11: show that nearly half of all not criminally responsible verdicts
Speaker 11: between nineteen ninety two and two thousand and four came
Speaker 11: from Quebec courts, even though the province has less than
Speaker 11: a quarter of the Canadian population. Ontario, Canada's most populous province,
Speaker 11: had thirty seven percent of such verdicts in the same
Speaker 11: time period. Of finding that irks boys Venue, he says
Speaker 11: Quebec courts are soft on defendants who plead mental distress.
Speaker 11: The gap between Quebec and other Canadian provinces should concern
Speaker 11: in us, he said. It is a symptom of a
Speaker 11: society that trivializes the crime and thinks that punishment is wrong.
Speaker 11: While Senator boisvenue statements do not do raise some interesting
Speaker 11: points that may have some merit of concerns. The statistics
Speaker 11: cited seemed to imply the jurors or an underlying factor
Speaker 11: of the increase of not criminally responsible verdicts, but that
Speaker 11: is simply not the case. Most of the cases of
Speaker 11: NCR and Canada are tried before judges only. A much
Speaker 11: more prevalent and disturbing trend is Crown prosecutors failing to
Speaker 11: aggressively dispute defense assertions of mental impairment. In many of
Speaker 11: the cases, the judge was presented with an agreed set
Speaker 11: of facts by both the Crown and defense, where the
Speaker 11: only witnesses were the psychiatrists who made assessments based on
Speaker 11: meeting the accused. A few short times. The judges bound
Speaker 11: by judicial precedent to make a determination of guilt based
Speaker 11: only on the evidence presented, so the verdict is inevitably
Speaker 11: not criminally responsible. For months, we have read horrific details
Speaker 11: of the killings of the Turcott children by their father Ghee.
Speaker 11: Since Turcott admitted to stabbing his two children, Olivier five
Speaker 11: and n Sophy three, the trial was about why he
Speaker 11: did it. On Tuesday, a jury found him not criminally
Speaker 11: responsible by virtue of his mental state at the time
Speaker 11: of the killings. The jury has given us a terrible verdict.
Speaker 11: Turcott should have been found guilty of murder. This was
Speaker 11: a case that highlighted issues related to depression, family violence,
Speaker 11: and social values. Defense argued that Turcott killed his children
Speaker 11: because he was depressed. I want to refute that assertion.
Speaker 11: My perspective is not from a legal viewpoint, but as
Speaker 11: a social worker with thirty years of experiencing council severely
Speaker 11: depressed people, often following a set or divorce, and working
Speaker 11: in the fields of family, workplace, and personal relationship violence,
Speaker 11: I understand the deabilitating effects of depression, and I know
Speaker 11: that it is not unusual for severely depressed people to
Speaker 11: think about killing themselves. They are focused on ending their
Speaker 11: own suffering, and they are not preoccupied with the impact
Speaker 11: of their suicide on their family members, nor, I should add,
Speaker 11: are they preoccupied about killing others. Unless bipolar illness is
Speaker 11: involved in this case, that was not alleged to have
Speaker 11: been a factor. Physical symptoms of the depression include a
Speaker 11: loss of energy and extreme fatigue. Is therefore hard to
Speaker 11: understand how someone with severe depression could have found the
Speaker 11: energy to stab his son twenty seven times and his
Speaker 11: daughter nineteen. Is far more likely that Turcotte's energy was
Speaker 11: fueled by rage and the desire for revenge. His activities
Speaker 11: leading up to and after the murders were puzzling. He
Speaker 11: was soon with the need it to put his affairs
Speaker 11: in order and to ensure his ex wife did not
Speaker 11: have access to money. He even refused to pay for
Speaker 11: his children's funerals. These actions do not point to someone
Speaker 11: who was in a deep depression alone. Rather, they point
Speaker 11: to an extreme disconnect with feelings of love for his children.
Speaker 11: They also point to a self absorbed individual who acted
Speaker 11: in spite. Turcott was portrayed by his defense lawyer as
Speaker 11: a loving, devoted father who could not bear to lose
Speaker 11: his family, and who was so overwhelmed by the infidelity
Speaker 11: of his ex wife that he lost it in a
Speaker 11: moment of desperation. We were led to believe he killed
Speaker 11: his children and tried to kill himself. This argument is
Speaker 11: not valid. Turcott would have had ongoing access to his
Speaker 11: children more of an issue than the children no longer
Speaker 11: being in his life. I believe was his having lost
Speaker 11: control of his wife. How egocentric it was of him
Speaker 11: to think that the children would be better off dead
Speaker 11: than being shared with their mother. Killing the children indicated
Speaker 11: a desire to punish his ex wife for her ending
Speaker 11: their relationship. This is what conjugal violence is all about.
Speaker 11: Family violence experts with whom I have talked about this
Speaker 11: case view the killing of young children by their fathers
Speaker 11: at a time of separation and divorce as an act
Speaker 11: of rage and revenge. Often the perpetrator, as with Turkot,
Speaker 11: does not exhibit previous violent behavior. This case also brings
Speaker 11: into questions society's values. It highlights a gradual erosion of
Speaker 11: personal responsibility for one's behavior and the ease with which
Speaker 11: arguments can be introduced into a murder trial to remove
Speaker 11: that responsibility. As reported in the Gazette's July second story headlined,
Speaker 11: Judge tells jury they must agree on motive, The defense
Speaker 11: claimed it was an act of twisted compassion, an extended
Speaker 11: suicide to spare his children from a fatherless life. This
Speaker 11: perversion of land which attempts to reduce Turcotte's personal responsibility
Speaker 11: for his children's murder. Extended suicide is an oxymoron. To
Speaker 11: kill yourself is the suicide to kill others as murder
Speaker 11: to try to put the killing of other people under
Speaker 11: the umbrella of suicide is shocking. The children in this
Speaker 11: case do not have a choice of living or dying.
Speaker 11: This choice of words is dangerous. It leads us down
Speaker 11: a path that would destroy society's core values and attacks
Speaker 11: a key part of our moral code. Thou shalt not kill.
Speaker 11: Twist the compassion was another phrase used to justify the killings.
Speaker 11: There was nothing compassionate about causing the deaths of these
Speaker 11: two young, healthy children, nor in the extremely violent way
Speaker 11: was carried out. They would have suffered excruciating pain in
Speaker 11: their final moments. Turcott, in my view and the view
Speaker 11: of colleagues with whom I have spoken, become, became so
Speaker 11: enraged and bent on revenge that he gave himself permission
Speaker 11: to kill, and doing so, he jumped the barrier of
Speaker 11: permissible behavior. The jury has given us an unfortunate verdict
Speaker 11: that has weakened our social fabric. Frema Engel is a
Speaker 11: Montreal social worker who specializes in workplace conflict resolution, bullying
Speaker 11: and violence prevention. She's a contributor to the Canadian Center
Speaker 11: for Abuse Awareness online magazine abuse Hurtz dot com. D
Speaker 11: Turcott the Quebec doctor found not criminal responsible for killing
Speaker 11: his two young children is allowed to take unescorted bike
Speaker 11: rides from a mental hospital. QMI Agency has learned the
Speaker 11: bike rides are not violations of the former cardiologists confinement conditions.
Speaker 11: The review board ruled in June that while Turcott must
Speaker 11: remain in hospital, he has the right to lead the
Speaker 11: premise to allow for the transition between his current environment
Speaker 11: and law life in the outside world. As of this month,
Speaker 11: Turcott has been allowed to leave Penell for between eight
Speaker 11: and sixteen hours a day and can even sleep over
Speaker 11: at relatives' homes. In twenty twelve, Turcott said he was
Speaker 11: better than he was before the brutal stabbings in February
Speaker 11: two thousand and nine. He feels felt less shame, less guilt,
Speaker 11: and had more self esteem and was ready to be released.
Speaker 11: Testifying before a mental health review board to determine whether
Speaker 11: to keep Turcott another year at the Penell Psychiatric Institute
Speaker 11: or release him to the care of his family, Turcott
Speaker 11: said he was not a danger to anyone. A psychiatrist
Speaker 11: said that the double child killer Turcott is an ideal
Speaker 11: candidate to return to community as a panel decides whether
Speaker 11: the freedom from the hospital defense trial witnessed doctor Lewis
Speaker 11: Morissett told the review board there was no reason to
Speaker 11: justify the hospitation hospitalization of the former cardiologist who stabbed
Speaker 11: his young children forty six times in two thousand and nine.
Speaker 11: He is no longer the same man, said Morisset. He
Speaker 11: has improved everything he could improve to make sure he
Speaker 11: doesn't reoffend. He has not had any symptoms of mental
Speaker 11: illness since the fall. The audience at the Panel hospital
Speaker 11: included Turcot's Ek's wife, who has become a victim's rights
Speaker 11: advocate since the verdict.
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Speaker 11: She said Turcott was a chameleon who has not changed
Speaker 11: since the murders and still poses a threat to her.
Speaker 11: I can't stand it, she told reporters. It's insulting. He says,
Speaker 11: I'm lying. The defense continues to downplay the rage he
Speaker 11: expressed to me. Isabelle Gaston lambast lambastad the court system
Speaker 11: for letting her ex husband Gee Turcotte, walk the streets
Speaker 11: of Montreal and potentially practice medicine again after killing their
Speaker 11: children in two thousand and nine. Gaston has spoken out
Speaker 11: against her ex husband's release from a psychiatric institution six
Speaker 11: months after being sentenced and just over three years after
Speaker 11: he admitted repeatedly stabbing their two young children in their beds,
Speaker 11: a mental health review board deemed that while he still
Speaker 11: posed a risk, he could be released from a psychiatric
Speaker 11: institution under strict rules. He is now a free man,
Speaker 11: and Sends said he intends to reapply for his medical license.
Speaker 11: He also said he hopes to fall in love again
Speaker 11: and have more children. We have a person that is
Speaker 11: a cardiologist that never had a psychiatric incident, not at all,
Speaker 11: Gaston said. I have troubled to understand how someone in
Speaker 11: five or six hours can do an interview with someone
Speaker 11: and have a conclusion that he is not a dangerous
Speaker 11: to society or is mentally insane. I have to respect
Speaker 11: the jury's decision, but it confronts me and my values
Speaker 11: because I think they didn't do their job. Gaston said
Speaker 11: she has spent a year researching similar cases that has
Speaker 11: seen large disparities in the results depending on the judge,
Speaker 11: the experience of the lawyers, and even how rich the
Speaker 11: defendant is, as it influences the quality of the defense.
Speaker 11: She added that she now lives in fear of what
Speaker 11: her ex husband could do next. What brought him to
Speaker 11: do that is still there? She said, Is it going
Speaker 11: to be me? Is it going to be another woman?
Speaker 11: She said that she is still haunted by the deaths
Speaker 11: of her children, who are also covered in defensive wounds.
Speaker 11: Her son did not have one single fatal wounds, so
Speaker 11: she knows he died a long, painful death. To know
Speaker 11: that my children face the person that they should have
Speaker 11: trusted the most, and that they were left by themselves
Speaker 11: to die with no one holding their hand, Gaston said
Speaker 11: as she struggled to contain her tears. I struggle all
Speaker 11: the days, every day of my life, and I think
Speaker 11: until I die, I will struggle. Turcott released. Outraged Quebec
Speaker 11: residents and even the Canadian government called Turcotte's release unacceptable.
Speaker 11: We believe that Isabelle Gaston does not deserve to live
Speaker 11: in fear of her children's killer, and neither do victims
Speaker 11: of similar crimes across Canada, said Federal Cabinet Minister James Moore.
Speaker 11: Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government drafted legislation to make it
Speaker 11: more difficult for mentally ill offenders to be released from
Speaker 11: psychiatric facilities, yet it will not influence Turcott's case For now.
Speaker 11: Turcott has been released on conditions that he does not
Speaker 11: contact his ex wife or her family, that he continues
Speaker 11: his therapy, and that he lives at an address approved
Speaker 11: by the Penell Institute. He is not taking any medication
Speaker 11: for mental illness presently. The release comes after Turcott underwent
Speaker 11: six months of regular therapy, which he said has left
Speaker 11: him less anxious. He said he is able to deal
Speaker 11: with his stress much better now. Pierre Rochet has been
Speaker 11: overseeing his mental health for the past six months and
Speaker 11: said he is really satisfied with the change in the
Speaker 11: man and believes he does not present a short term danger.
Speaker 11: The Crown prosecutor has filed in an appeal in the case,
Speaker 11: which will be heard in the new year. On September thirtieth,
Speaker 11: two thousand and thirteen, arguments were heard in Quebec's Court
Speaker 11: of Appeal. The Crown was requesting the two thousand and
Speaker 11: eleven jury decision be annulled and a new trial ordered.
Speaker 11: The prosecutor argued that the judge in the first trial
Speaker 11: should have never even given the jury the option of
Speaker 11: finding Turcott not criminally responsible. Crown said there was a
Speaker 11: lack of evidence to support a defense of not criminally
Speaker 11: responsible for reason of mental illness, arguing instead that the
Speaker 11: killings were premeditated intended as revenge against his former partner,
Speaker 11: Isabelle Gaston, who was having an affair. The Quebec Court
Speaker 11: of Appeal has now ruled that legal errors were committed
Speaker 11: in the original trial, including by the superior court judge
Speaker 11: who presided over it. Turcott drank washer flewd later that
Speaker 11: evening in what he says was an attempt to kill himself.
Speaker 11: The Crown said, and not criminally responsible verdict should only
Speaker 11: be reserved for cases of mental illness, not ones where
Speaker 11: a suicide attempt might have triggered and after the fact blackout.
Speaker 11: The appeals court verdict sided with such critics. Turkott's lif
Speaker 11: laere Pierre Poupart, argued unsuccessfully that he suffered from serious
Speaker 11: mental illness at the time and was intoxicated on windshield
Speaker 11: washer fluid as part of a suicide attempt. Poupart argued
Speaker 11: that the trial was thorough and meticulous and the jury
Speaker 11: ultimately arrived at the right verdict. Gaston was watching the
Speaker 11: case closely and closely and was in court to support
Speaker 11: the overturning of Turcott's sentence. She said the case is
Speaker 11: weighing heavily on her and that its outcome will greatly
Speaker 11: impact her life. The stress is coming out for me.
Speaker 11: It's a big step for our justice system to repair
Speaker 11: for me. What is the biggest injustice in my life?
Speaker 11: She said. The defense's argument that Turcotte was suicidal and
Speaker 11: therefore unable to distinguish between right and wrong sets a
Speaker 11: dangerous precedent. In November twenty fourteen, the Quebec Court of
Speaker 11: Appeal overturned the twenty eleven jury not criminally responsible verdict
Speaker 11: and ordered a second trial on two counts of first
Speaker 11: degree murder. Gaston became an outspoken advocate for justice reform
Speaker 11: after the deaths of her two children, and said a
Speaker 11: second trial could never fix the damage and the distress
Speaker 11: she suffered during the first one. Turcott, who faces a
Speaker 11: second trial for killing his two children, told the judge
Speaker 11: he deserves bail because he's not a danger to society.
Speaker 11: I think it can be useful rather than wasting my
Speaker 11: time in prison. Kee Turcott told Judge Andre Vincent, looking
Speaker 11: pale and drawn and wearing foot shackles, the former heart specialist,
Speaker 11: asked to be released to his uncle's house, penning his
Speaker 11: second double murder trial scheduled for next year. Turcott tried
Speaker 11: to persuade the judge at free him again would not
Speaker 11: undermine the public's confidence in administration of justice. During my lease,
Speaker 11: I often went out in public places and I never
Speaker 11: had problems, except for one time in the shopping center
Speaker 11: when a woman recognized me and became aggressive. A day earlier,
Speaker 11: the bail hearing heard from a psychiatris who said Turcott
Speaker 11: fell into a deep depression when the Quebec Court of
Speaker 11: Appeal ordered a new trial last December. He was confined
Speaker 11: to a Montreal mental hospital for seven months to double
Speaker 11: the normal dose of antidepressants and had persecution delirium in
Speaker 11: episodes of paranoia. Doctor Renee Roy testified he was like
Speaker 11: a little five year old boy. She told the court
Speaker 11: he bit his nails. He was really in a pitiful state.
Speaker 11: The second trial for a former Quebec cartiologist charged with
Speaker 11: first degree murder and the death of his two children
Speaker 11: began with the critical task of selecting a jury to
Speaker 11: hear the case. The case will be heard before Quebec's
Speaker 11: Superior Court Justice andre Vincent, with three months set aside
Speaker 11: for the jury to hear witnesses and final arguments. The
Speaker 11: Quebec Court of Appeal ruled in twenty thirteen that Turcott
Speaker 11: should stand trialing again, after concluding the trial judge had
Speaker 11: aired in his directives to the jury. The Supreme Court
Speaker 11: of Canada refused to hear Turcott's attempt to have the
Speaker 11: new case dismissed. Turcott, forty three, was somber and impassive
Speaker 11: as he sat in a prisoner's box, close his eyes
Speaker 11: briefly when the judge said he was accused of having
Speaker 11: killed his two young children. Out on bail since December.
Speaker 11: Turcott moved slowly as he navigated the corridors at the courthouse,
Speaker 11: accompanied by his parents, as about twenty five journalists and
Speaker 11: cameramen watched on. Crown Prosecutor Renee Veret said he expects
Speaker 11: to call thirty witnesses. Pierre Poupard told the trial he
Speaker 11: will argue that his client should not should be found
Speaker 11: not criminally responsible for the deaths. Whupar told the eleven
Speaker 11: ers he will call witnesses as well as experts doctors
Speaker 11: specializing in the examination of what goes on in the
Speaker 11: brain they will talk about in the acute suicidal crisis.
Speaker 11: Whopar said Tyrcott's mental illness brought about that condition. The
Speaker 11: high profile defense lawyer told the jurors they will have
Speaker 11: to determine whether Turcotte was in a state of such
Speaker 11: psychological distress. He said he will try to prove that
Speaker 11: the accused would never have caused the children's death had
Speaker 11: he not been in that mental state. He also reminded
Speaker 11: the jurors that they will need to reach a verdict
Speaker 11: based on the evidence and not on their emotions. Condemning
Speaker 11: a person who was not criminally responsible would shake the
Speaker 11: legal foundations and strike a blow to the integrity of
Speaker 11: the judicial system. Pupar said it would be horrible to
Speaker 11: be condemned for acts that are not the acts of
Speaker 11: a person of sound mind. He warned jurors there are
Speaker 11: still things to see that are painful and that nobody,
Speaker 11: even Turcott himself, can be insensitive to the facts of
Speaker 11: the case. The defense lawyer all so asta jurors to
Speaker 11: not forget that the children who were victims of this
Speaker 11: tragedy were also his children. Turcott took the stand in
Speaker 11: his own defense, speaking in a low monotone voice. Turcott
Speaker 11: testified he often had brief suicidal thoughts after his frequent
Speaker 11: acrimonious arguments with his ex Isabel Gaston. He said the
Speaker 11: stormy relationship made him feel discouraged and depressed. Turcott testified
Speaker 11: he thought about ways to end his life quickly, such
Speaker 11: as by hanging or ingesting windshield wipe or fluid or poison,
Speaker 11: but Turcott said he never went through with it because
Speaker 11: he said he couldn't do that to the children. Turcott
Speaker 11: testified while his relationship and arguments with Gastone got worse
Speaker 11: and more heated, his relations with their children got better
Speaker 11: all the time, adding that he felt good being with them.
Speaker 11: He testified he never thought at leaving Gaston because he
Speaker 11: wanted the family to stay together. Gue Turcott said he
Speaker 11: was mocked and intimidated as a child, and that he
Speaker 11: had few friends. I was sort of the scapegoat. The
Speaker 11: defense that the Gue Turcott trial has called psychiatrist Dominique
Speaker 11: Bourget too. They stand convinced the jury that the cardiologist
Speaker 11: was not mentally competent when he killed his two young
Speaker 11: children in two thousand and nine. Her specialty is homicide
Speaker 11: cases involving family members, and she's testified for the courts
Speaker 11: hundreds of times. She explained her resume and how she
Speaker 11: went about analyzing Turcott's claim of being mentally ill when
Speaker 11: he killed his children, Olivier and Anselphi. Borghett met Turcott
Speaker 11: on two occasions in twenty ten while he was distained
Speaker 11: under psychiatric observation. She concluded the former cardiologists suffered from
Speaker 11: a mental illness called adjustment disorder with anxiety and depressed mood.
Speaker 11: It is a relatively common condition, triggered, as the name implies,
Speaker 11: by anxiety and depression. The illness usually lasts six months
Speaker 11: on average and disappears once sources of stress are no
Speaker 11: longer present. The disorder is considered an abnormal reaction to stress.
Speaker 11: Many of the people with this illness will try to
Speaker 11: commit suicide. The psychiatrist added that Turcott did not suffer
Speaker 11: from a personality disorder in his youth, although he does
Speaker 11: display obsessive compulsive behavior. The double murder trial for Geet
Speaker 11: Turcott has moved away from the descriptions of the physical
Speaker 11: evidence to the murky mental evidence of a killer's state
Speaker 11: of mind. Doctor Jack Talbot testified on behalf of the
Speaker 11: defense on Monday at Turcott's trial for the double murder
Speaker 11: of his children. Talbot was the first doctor to meet
Speaker 11: Turcott when he was admitted to the Penell Psychiatric Institute,
Speaker 11: and was his doctor of record for US one hundred
Speaker 11: and fifty two days. He first met Turkott on February
Speaker 11: twenty six, two thousand and nine, one week after the
Speaker 11: two children were killed. Talbot said Turcott was suicidal and
Speaker 11: suffering from an anxiety adjustment disorder. Talbot said that Turcott's
Speaker 11: first question was to ask if his children were still
Speaker 11: alive and what had happened to them. Previous witnesses have
Speaker 11: explained it because he had drank methanol. Turcott may have
Speaker 11: been suffering from amnesia. Talbot testified when he told Turcott
Speaker 11: that Olivia and Sophie were dead, Turcott shut down emotionally.
Speaker 11: He diagnosed this as disassociation due to stress. The doctor
Speaker 11: said he placed Turkon in medication for depression, suicidal tendencies,
Speaker 11: and sleep difficulties. On February twenty seventh, one week after
Speaker 11: the slayings, Talbot said Turcott had reached a sort of
Speaker 11: breaking point and I couldn't live anymore and wanted to
Speaker 11: commit suicide. He noted he couldn't do it while at
Speaker 11: the Penelun Institute, but didn't rule out eventually killing himself.
Speaker 11: Talbot described Turcott as trying to insulate himself from his emotions.
Speaker 11: People do this, he explained, as a defense mechanism when
Speaker 11: one's emotions are simply too much to bear. Turcott began
Speaker 11: to immerse himself in complicated linature and penned a list
Speaker 11: of specific items to recover from the home where the
Speaker 11: slayings took place, including a sack of potatoes, a compact disc,
Speaker 11: and a pepper mill. Talbot confirmed what Turcott had said
Speaker 11: that much of his memories of February twenty February twentieth
Speaker 11: were scattered and he only remembered flashes. In March two
Speaker 11: thousand and nine, Turcott was still angry at his now
Speaker 11: ex wife, Isabella Gaston, over her infidelity. In April, the
Speaker 11: suicidal thoughts were still present. One month later, he said
Speaker 11: his life is over and that death would be better.
Speaker 11: Turcott told the psychiatrist he deserved to suffer and was
Speaker 11: surprised at the support from his own family and the
Speaker 11: friendliness of staff at the institute. While listening to the testimony,
Speaker 11: Turcott stared at the ground, not looking at the jury,
Speaker 11: the witness or his lawyer. Burgette explained this in more
Speaker 11: detail to the jury. The night he killed his two children,
Speaker 11: Gee Turcott was no longer able to deal with the
Speaker 11: emotional burden of his rapidly changing personal life was on
Speaker 11: the verge of committing suicide. It was like one shock
Speaker 11: after another, he told the jury. Turcott's mental state was
Speaker 11: like that of an overflowing glass of water, and he
Speaker 11: couldn't handle the rest of his marriage and the infidelity
Speaker 11: of his wife. He was in an acute suicidal crisis.
Speaker 11: Calling it invasive state, the person becomes overwhelmed, obsessed with
Speaker 11: suicidal thoughts, and then they lose touch with reality. Borget
Speaker 11: defined the condition as a disease, not just in an
Speaker 11: emotional reaction to stress. On February twentieth, he had decided
Speaker 11: to end his life and began drinking windshield wash or fluid,
Speaker 11: which contains methanol. As he went about his plan, he
Speaker 11: decided to bring his children with him. It's clear, even
Speaker 11: on its own, methanol poisoning is likely to affect one's
Speaker 11: judgment and alter their consciousness. She said. A telephone conversation
Speaker 11: gue Turcott had with his mother the night before he
Speaker 11: killed his two children was sort of a suicide note,
Speaker 11: the defense expert witness testified. Lewis Morrisset, the psychiatrist appointed
Speaker 11: by the defense to evaluate Turkott, said the hour long
Speaker 11: telephone conversation was a sort of spoken farewell letter where
Speaker 11: he told his mother he loved her and asked her
Speaker 11: to convey that message to his father and siblings. Morset
Speaker 11: said he believes Turcott had sunk into a deep despair
Speaker 11: on February twentieth and was in the midst of a
Speaker 11: suicile crisis that led him to consume windshield washer fluid
Speaker 11: before electing to kill his children out of a clouded
Speaker 11: logic that he didn't want him didn't want them to
Speaker 11: find him dead the next day. Under cross examination, he
Speaker 11: was asked to defend that conclusion, giving previous testimony from
Speaker 11: two witnesses, including Turcott's ex wife Isabelle, suggesting he mentioned
Speaker 11: he was seeking revenge both before and after the slayings.
Speaker 11: It says what it says, There is no explanation, Morrisset said,
Speaker 11: adding while revenge is possible, the clinical evidence doesn't back
Speaker 11: it up. Morset spoke of the final conversation and said
Speaker 11: Turcott was already intoxicated and had likely been consuming windshield
Speaker 11: washer fluid before talking to his mother, and suggested to
Speaker 11: Turcott's suicidal thoughts came suddenly when Gee Turcott stabbed his
Speaker 11: two young children to death, he was engaging in an
Speaker 11: act of homicidal altruism. Lewis Morsett was cross examined by
Speaker 11: the Crown for a second consecutive day and told the
Speaker 11: jury Turcott killed his kids because he didn't want them
Speaker 11: to suffer. He said the ex doctor acted out of
Speaker 11: homicidal altruism because he wanted to prevent them from witnessing
Speaker 11: his eventual suicide, but he added that logic was faulty
Speaker 11: and the result of a sick mind. Morisset and the
Speaker 11: previous defense witness Dominique Burgette concur Turcott was suffering from
Speaker 11: a suicidal crisis after the end of his marriage, would
Speaker 11: led him to drink Winshield washer fluid the night he
Speaker 11: killed his two kids. On February twenty second February twentieth,
Speaker 11: two thousand and nine, Crown Prosecutor Rene Verey accused Moriset
Speaker 11: of trying to minimize the effect drinking windshield fluid, which
Speaker 11: contains the toxic substance methanol, had on Turcott. You are
Speaker 11: excluding the methanol as a contributing factor, Veray asked, yes,
Speaker 11: it was very marginal. Morisset said Veray was incredulous about
Speaker 11: the claim Turcott really wanted to kill himself because he
Speaker 11: chose to drink methanol, which, after ingestion, brings about a
Speaker 11: slow death. The Crown prosecutor also asked Morisset to explain
Speaker 11: why Turcott called his mother the Knight of the murders,
Speaker 11: asking her to come save him, which he she could
Speaker 11: have done before the methanol took effect. Morisset said Turcott
Speaker 11: truly wanted to kill himself that night, but failed. Borget
Speaker 11: told the jury she believes the acts were a product
Speaker 11: of a man whose brain was profoundly sick. His brain
Speaker 11: was not working like a normal persons, Bourguet said, adding
Speaker 11: that Turcotte was disconnected from reality. He was in a
Speaker 11: state of mental confusion, was out of touch with reality.
Speaker 11: She said, he was thinking so much about dying he
Speaker 11: was no longer thinking of anything else. She testified that
Speaker 11: Turcott was not thinking of killing his children the night
Speaker 11: they died. For him, at that moment, it was not
Speaker 11: to kill, it was to bring his children with him.
Speaker 11: She said that this logic was clearly faulty and irrational.
Speaker 11: We understand that this way of thinking is highly abnormal
Speaker 11: and can be explained in mister Turcott's case by the
Speaker 11: presence of psychiatric illness. She said. A parent who is
Speaker 11: contemplating suicide doesn't think about killing, but rather about an
Speaker 11: expanded suicide. Because a good parent doesn't want to abandon
Speaker 11: their children to leave them behind. His actions are ill
Speaker 11: while the more absurd, she said, because he's causing them
Speaker 11: to suffer by killing them to spare them the suffering
Speaker 11: of finding their father dead. Burgay testified at Turcott's first
Speaker 11: trial in twenty eleven and saw him again in July
Speaker 11: twenty fifteen to make a second report. In his cross examination,
Speaker 11: Crown Prosecutor Rene Very questioned whether Burget had been too
Speaker 11: willing to believe everything Turcott told her during her analysis.
Speaker 11: He asked Burgee to explain why, on the day of
Speaker 11: the killings, Turcott was able to go to work, call
Speaker 11: his mother, and cancel two appointments if his brain was
Speaker 11: not working properly. Burgay responded that Turcott's brain wasn't working well,
Speaker 11: but it could still make certain connections. The crown wrapped
Speaker 11: up its case after calling twenty nine witnesses after a
Speaker 11: twelve week trial. On December sixth, twenty fifteen, ye Turcott
Speaker 11: was found guilty of second degree murder in the stabbing
Speaker 11: deaths of his two young children. In two thousand and nine.
Speaker 11: The levenjerors returned with a verdict on their seventh day
Speaker 11: of deliberations. A muffled yes could be heard in the
Speaker 11: courtroom when the verdict was announced. It came from the
Speaker 11: direction of Isabella Gaston. Gaston spoke to reporters after the
Speaker 11: verdicant said she was relieved by the jury's decision. Today
Speaker 11: I hope the souls of Olivier and an Sophie can
Speaker 11: be at peace. She said. For me, this is the
Speaker 11: day I can begin to rest. Since there's death, I've
Speaker 11: had the impression my life has been a struggle. Now
Speaker 11: it's all about healing. But Gaston said her life will
Speaker 11: never be the same even with the verdict. Tomorrow, I
Speaker 11: will not wake up with my children. Turcott's sentencing arguments
Speaker 11: took place on December eighteenth. At the sentencing hearing, Gustau
Speaker 11: told Turcott to look her in the eye as she
Speaker 11: defiantly declared that while he has broken her heart, he
Speaker 11: has not broken her resolve. I want you to know,
Speaker 11: Gye Turcotte, that you have achieved your goal, she said,
Speaker 11: as Turcott, his head down, sat shaking in the prisoner's box.
Speaker 11: I want to look I want you to look me
Speaker 11: in the eye. You have broken my heart forever, but
Speaker 11: I want you to know that you have not broken
Speaker 11: my resolve. Many in the courtroom cried the handcuff Turcott
Speaker 11: cried and tried to wipe away the tears as he
Speaker 11: listened to her. The judge, hearing the arguments, invited Turcott
Speaker 11: to speak the doctor. The ex doctor jumped at the opportunity.
Speaker 11: People cannot understand the shame I have, he said in
Speaker 11: a weak sounding voice. I cannot look people in the face.
Speaker 11: I'm so ashamed. I want to tell you, Isabelle, I
Speaker 11: didn't testify to make you feel recent responsible, he said.
Speaker 11: Added he want to explain what he'd done and gone
Speaker 11: through after hitting the bottom of the barrel. It was
Speaker 11: not to hurt you. I know I can never forgive
Speaker 11: myself of what happened. The crown prosecutor suggested Turcotte serve
Speaker 11: a minimum of twenty years before he would be eligible
Speaker 11: to apply for parole, while the defense countered it should
Speaker 11: be less than fifteen and closer to ten. Gaston, the
Speaker 11: only witness the Crown chose to have testify, Friday, told
Speaker 11: the judge she always wanted to be a mother and
Speaker 11: that losing her children ended that dream. The woman who
Speaker 11: existed in two thousand and nine no longer exists and
Speaker 11: never will again. She explained that she has tried to
Speaker 11: have other children since the slayings, underwent procedures to help
Speaker 11: that happen, but at forty three I have lost hope.
Speaker 11: The jurors had a choice of four possible verdicts, not
Speaker 11: criminally responsible or guilty of first degree murder, second degree murder,
Speaker 11: or manslaughter. Vincent asked them last week if they had
Speaker 11: any recommendations for the minimum number of years Turcott should served,
Speaker 11: but they said they had none. Since the murders occurred
Speaker 11: in two thousand and nine, Turcott will have only one
Speaker 11: murder conviction sentence, with the second conviction to be served concurrently.
Speaker 11: The only decision will be how long until parole eligibility
Speaker 11: between ten and twenty five years. Quebec Superior Court Justice
Speaker 11: andre Vincent will be made will make his ruling on
Speaker 11: January fifth, two thousand and sixteen. Isabella Gaston read a
Speaker 11: statement at the sentencing hearing for her ex husband Gee Turcott.
Speaker 11: This is a translation of the letter she submitted to
Speaker 11: the court, Your honor, I hesitated about speaking with you before.
Speaker 11: I was worried I wouldn't be heard. Victims it seems,
Speaker 11: must always wait their turn. What we have to say
Speaker 11: too much to be heard all the way through. After
Speaker 11: much thought, though, I chose to exercise my right to
Speaker 11: speak because you aren't among those that have prevented me
Speaker 11: from saying what I needed to get off my chest.
Speaker 11: I've endured difficult proceedings and for years, and my place
Speaker 11: was at the back of the room. I endured is
Speaker 11: with courage and relief that I am speaking to you
Speaker 11: to day, Aside from my concerns about not being heard,
Speaker 11: standing before you and saying out loud, everything I've endured,
Speaker 11: lost and felt seemed to be at odds with my
Speaker 11: desire to forget and my constant effort to rebuild what
Speaker 11: is left of my life. I'm here for myself to
Speaker 11: help me move forward and to make peace with what
Speaker 11: I can change and give me the strength to face
Speaker 11: the future. I am still standing. I am resilient. But
Speaker 11: I hope that when it comes time for you to
Speaker 11: render your sentence, this letter in my voice will echo
Speaker 11: and remind you what I have suffered because of Gietterkatt.
Speaker 11: I want you to remember that he did nothing to
Speaker 11: help my life, make make my life easier. After the
Speaker 11: deaths of our children, we easily recognize the consequences of
Speaker 11: convicting the innocent, but we too often overlooked the consequences
Speaker 11: of justice denied. By killing Olivia and Ane Sophie, Guy
Speaker 11: Turcotte broke my heart and destroyed a big part of
Speaker 11: who I was. He annihilated the precious life choice I
Speaker 11: had made being a mother. I was in two thousand
Speaker 11: and nine. The woman I was in two thousand and
Speaker 11: nine no longer exist and never will again, socially, psychologically, financially, professionally.
Speaker 11: Olivia was the most wonderful little boy in an Sophie
Speaker 11: was the most extraordinary little girl. When we are young,
Speaker 11: we dream about what we want to be when we
Speaker 11: grew up. We see a future for ourselves. Some dream
Speaker 11: of winning the lottery, others of becoming astronauts. I dreamed
Speaker 11: of having children. The morning of February twentieth, I had
Speaker 11: two beautiful children. In less than twenty four hours later,
Speaker 11: I had none. I was still in shock a few
Speaker 11: days after their deaths when there was a knock on
Speaker 11: my door and I was given a list of items
Speaker 11: to be retrieved from the house to pay for his lawyers.
Speaker 11: I suffered a great deal of anxiety as they threatened
Speaker 11: to sell off the children's toys. They had no real
Speaker 11: financial value, but symbolically for me, those toys were worth
Speaker 11: all the treasures in the world. I was still being hurt.
Speaker 11: I had to hire a lawyer so my children's belongings
Speaker 11: weren't lost forever. The death of my children means I
Speaker 11: will be working through the complexities of my grief and
Speaker 11: post traumatic stress for the rest of my life. I
Speaker 11: am learning to tame my heartbreak. Many days and much
Speaker 11: of my downtime have been devoted to this process, and
Speaker 11: will continue to be devoted to this process for the
Speaker 11: rest of my life. Since February twentieth, I have learned
Speaker 11: to smile even when I am in pain. Even when
Speaker 11: I am suffering, I have had to learn with live
Speaker 11: with constant fear because some people have called me a slut,
Speaker 11: a whore, a moron, among other things. I have received
Speaker 11: hate mail. I've had to go to police after receiving
Speaker 11: threatening letters at work. I have felt enormous guilt because
Speaker 11: some people said I was responsible for the deaths of
Speaker 11: my children. For a long time, I didn't think I
Speaker 11: deserved to be alive or to be loved. Petercott never
Speaker 11: took responsibility for his actions. He painted himself as a victim,
Speaker 11: inferring that I was responsible for what he did. With
Speaker 11: every passing day, I worried that I will forget the
Speaker 11: happy memories I have of my children. I'm afraid of
Speaker 11: forgetting the faces, their faces and voices I missed them.
Speaker 11: I am the parents whose children are still by their sides.
Speaker 11: It has made my friendships and my family life painful.
Speaker 11: I have had the same friends for you years, and
Speaker 11: they all have children the same age as mine, even
Speaker 11: though I have projects. When you don't have children, and
Speaker 11: when the legal process has been under way for seven years,
Speaker 11: there is little to talk about until the trial and
Speaker 11: legal proceedings are over. They will always be the main
Speaker 11: topic of conversation. My friend's children have asked me questions.
Speaker 11: I've had to learn to lie because there's no good
Speaker 11: way to explain the unexplainable. I always refused life insurance
Speaker 11: because the insurance company deemed my risk of suicide too great,
Speaker 11: even though I have never attempted it and I have
Speaker 11: never had any mental illnesses. I was told many parents
Speaker 11: more in the death of their children, and they never
Speaker 11: get over it. I can't increase my disability insurance, and
Speaker 11: since we have already maximized mister Turcotte's and minimize my own,
Speaker 11: I will never be well covered in case of illness,
Speaker 11: not at least in the medium term. My joint bank
Speaker 11: account was emptied, which caused me much stress because I
Speaker 11: was worried that I had been a victim of identity theft.
Speaker 11: I missed days of work and occurred lawyer's fees to
Speaker 11: recover the money that was taken. Someone also assumed my
Speaker 11: identity to obtain information about me from my insurance company.
Speaker 11: I gave up my job as a corner because the
Speaker 11: many legal proceedings may be unavailable to take on new cases.
Speaker 11: It took me years to get that job which I
Speaker 11: had taken all the necessary steps to obtain. I had
Speaker 11: to give it up after two years with sadness, because
Speaker 11: it was a job I had coveted since I started
Speaker 11: in medicine. I stopped working as an in emergency room.
Speaker 11: It was work that I loved and I had done
Speaker 11: full time for almost twelve years. I realized I, given
Speaker 11: the lack of sleep in the haphazard schedule, that was
Speaker 11: increasingly capable of dealing with the horrible flashes of what
Speaker 11: my children suffered. I was afraid of freezing up. That's
Speaker 11: an example of post traumatic stress. It's a psychological reaction
Speaker 11: that occurs when we suffer a blow to our mental
Speaker 11: health and physical well being, and it can inflict much pain.
Speaker 11: Maybe you didn't see it in all of the photos,
Speaker 11: but I saw my children with all of their wounds
Speaker 11: and injuries. Just days after their death, I cradled them.
Speaker 11: My children died alone in their beds. It's unimaginable. The
Speaker 11: attack came from the inside from someone I trusted, but
Speaker 11: most importantly, from someone Olivier and Anselfhie trusted. Beyond their
Speaker 11: physical pain, I cannot imagine what they must have been
Speaker 11: thinking and have not seen all of these horrible images
Speaker 11: just once, but many times, and as a result of
Speaker 11: the many legal proceedings, I have stopped counting my sleepless nights.
Speaker 11: It took seven years, two trials, an appeal, of an appeal,
Speaker 11: in several administrative procedures, but finally, on December sixth, twenty fifteen,
Speaker 11: justice was served. I sacrificed my private life, not by
Speaker 11: choice but by obligation. I could not continue to look
Speaker 11: at myself in the mireor knowing that what had happened
Speaker 11: was a grave air. Despite my distress and my struggle,
Speaker 11: I could not endure the suffering of the proceedings without
Speaker 11: speaking out whenever I could. Even today, in spite of
Speaker 11: the verdict, I remained bitter. I don't understand why we
Speaker 11: didn't proceed more quickly, Judge. At the beginning of my battle,
Speaker 11: I was told to forget about it, that that I
Speaker 11: would not be able to change things. But I found
Speaker 11: failings in the system. For years, we have not placed
Speaker 11: any controls on the quality of medical evidence presented at
Speaker 11: criminal trials. I want you to know that I sacrificed
Speaker 11: my health and my life projects for this battle, which
Speaker 11: I believe is a fundamental one. In September twenty sixteen,
Speaker 11: I will have put in five years of intense work
Speaker 11: for it. I still feel a certain frustration toward a
Speaker 11: government and system that does not wholly recognize someone like
Speaker 11: me whose children were killed as a victim of crime.
Speaker 11: I do not understand why we don't change the IVAC
Speaker 11: law in this regard. There are so few of us.
Speaker 11: I'm still hoping that one day a minister or other
Speaker 11: official will come and call me to say, yes, we
Speaker 11: are changing the law for parents whose children are killed.
Speaker 11: I believe this would protect the children because at least
Speaker 11: the aggressor won't have the pleasure of knowing. They will
Speaker 11: also kick to the curb families who aren't as fortunate
Speaker 11: as I am. In closing, I would like you, Geetter
Speaker 11: to Caut to know that you have achieved your goal.
Speaker 11: You have broken my heart for good. However, despite all
Speaker 11: that I have suffered because of you, I want you
Speaker 11: to know that you have not killed my resolve. You
Speaker 11: have not killed my capacity to marvel nor my ability
Speaker 11: to love. Even broken, my heart's still beat strongly for
Speaker 11: Olivier and an Sophie. I'm a better person because of them.
Speaker 11: With this verdict, I can now rest. I am happy.
Speaker 11: I'm waiting for snow so I can make a snowman.
Speaker 11: And when spring comes, I'll watch the tulips bloom. I'm
Speaker 11: enjoying my new life and my freedom. Isabelle Gaston even
Speaker 11: listening to Death Bedside Matter with your host Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 11: Have a good evening and happy New Year. Good Night,