WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:02.640 This is Timothy Albreno. 2 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:04.120 Hey, this is Trace Matt. 3 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:06.919 My name is La mar Hilly. This is doctor judperg 4 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:08.720 This is Ryan Peterson. 5 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.439 If you want to know your Bible, you have to dig, 6 00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:12.880 and you're in the right place. 7 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:15.880 This is the Dig Bible Podcast. 8 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:25.280 Hey, what's going on on my local guys and gals 9 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:27.280 and long distance pals. 10 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:29.079 We're back. 11 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:34.240 We're back without being all right, we're missing him. 12 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.159 We always miss Ben when he's not here. 13 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:38.719 You gotta do it again. You gotta do the Ben voice. 14 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:40.560 We're back. 15 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:43.640 That's I can't get as deep as Ben. 16 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.439 Being in that neighborhood. Friendly sasquash. 17 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:50.640 He's here in heart right here. 18 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:56.640 Well, today, guys, we got another banging episode for you guys. 19 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:00.560 And uh it's a it's a returning guest. If you 20 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:04.879 guys remember what it was. It two twenty two we 21 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:07.920 had a guy named Rick Hasty and we had to 22 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:13.079 talk on biblical worldview. Well, we have Rick back, and 23 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:18.040 we actually have his daughter Waverley with us, and they 24 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:21.840 actually have written a book together, and we wanted to 25 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:23.840 have them on and talk about this book because we 26 00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:26.400 think that it's not only a great story, it's got 27 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.400 a great message and it's relevant to the times that 28 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.920 we're in today. So I'd just like to introduce to 29 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:37.280 the show Rick and Waverley. So, guys, just for our 30 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.719 new listeners that's not familiar with you, just kind of 31 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.599 introduce yourself, likes, dislikes. 32 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:45.439 Background, just give us a feel for who you guys are. 33 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:50.599 I'm all the first. I'm Weaverly Cowards. I live in 34 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.000 the North Georgia Mountains, about forty five minutes from Atlanta. 35 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:58.599 I've been married nine and a half years. We have 36 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.920 three amazing children run one seven year old son, a 37 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:03.640 four year old. 38 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:05.079 Daughter, and a one year old daughters just. 39 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.919 Turned one, and by trade, I'm a marriage and family therapist, 40 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:14.639 but taking some extended time off to mother and to 41 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:20.199 homeschool and raise our children. So that also allows me 42 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:24.800 to edit some books on the side and do podcasts. 43 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.280 So couldn't couldn't do it without my husband, that's for sure. 44 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:30.479 So shout out to shout out to him. 45 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:32.719 Well, I'm the same guy that was hanging out with 46 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:39.240 you a year or so ago. Justin and Steve and 47 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.439 I know we've missed Ben, so we'll give a shout 48 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:45.560 out to Ben there too. But in any case, I 49 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.199 live in Charlotte part of the time and then live 50 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:54.439 in Virginia up in the Tri Cities area near Justin 51 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:57.319 and Steve, so we got to know each other a 52 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:01.879 little bit. I've been doing management consulting for many, many years, 53 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.240 and yet in the midst of all of that, somehow 54 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:09.840 or another, God gave me a heart many years ago 55 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:14.080 to get focused on apologetics and what it was like 56 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:19.639 to defend our faith, not in academic settings so much 57 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:25.719 as in the everyday life settings where people are struggling, 58 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:30.400 they've got doubts, and I would say it's just as 59 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:37.840 important for believers to keep questioning truth and getting it right. 60 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.319 It's okay to question truth. And so as I learned 61 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.439 that many years ago, I just recognized that I wanted 62 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.639 to know more and more about who God is and 63 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:53.520 not be fooled by the things that people say is 64 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.360 but rather actually does not know about him either, but knowing. 65 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:05.879 So that's been my journey over the years. 66 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.520 Well with the book, the titles and search you for 67 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:16.120 Proof and Faith. So with this book, what does this 68 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.000 give us? A breakdown the premise of the book, what 69 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.839 is it about and how it came about? 70 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:29.040 Well, I attended for undergrad, I attended the University of 71 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:33.120 North Carolina Chapel Hill, and I took a New Testament 72 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:40.079 class my sophomore year with doctor bart Erman is his name. 73 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:45.800 And after growing up in a Christian home, attending church 74 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:50.079 my whole life, I did not expect silly me maybe, 75 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:53.439 but I did not expect to take a New Testament 76 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.040 class from a professor who did not believe. 77 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:57.959 It to be true, like at all. 78 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:04.800 And so I had, you know, several classes, and I 79 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:09.720 would call my dad and begin to have these conversations 80 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:14.879 about what he was talking about, the pushback he was giving, 81 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:20.279 some quote unquote errors he was presenting, and my dad 82 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:24.160 would flesh it out with me. We would kind of 83 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:28.519 wrestle with these questions that came up, and I would 84 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:30.800 get off the phone and talk it out with some 85 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:33.480 of my peers because I did have believing peers. 86 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.560 Actually, I took. 87 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:38.079 The class with a couple of fellow young life leaders, 88 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:41.279 and so I was able to kind of flesh it 89 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:46.040 out with peers myself who knew and believed the Gospel 90 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.319 to be true. And so it was just the first 91 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:54.639 time I had really been presented with someone who was 92 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:59.360 very smart, very intelligent, and yet. I mean, he was 93 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.759 teaching Testament class and did not believe the New Testament 94 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.240 to be true. So that was kind of a sound 95 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:12.399 to me and an interruption to my smooth sailing faith, 96 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:13.639 if you will. 97 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:19.879 So it was it was quite an experience. So and 98 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:23.319 I'll let my dods share some of his side of 99 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:23.959 that too. 100 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:31.319 Sort of along those same timeframes. My youngest son, who 101 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:34.560 is now a senior in high school or almost a 102 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.040 senior in high school, when kind of as first started, 103 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:40.319 I realized that the time was coming to an end 104 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:45.160 with him, and so I really wanted to try to 105 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:50.480 encourage him to be doing Bible study regularly. And and 106 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.120 so I approached him and a couple of his buddies 107 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.160 and said, hey, what would you guys. Would you guys 108 00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:00.199 like to do a Bible study? And they said, let 109 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:01.800 us think about it. And they thought about it and 110 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:04.600 came back and said, nah, you know, we're we're we 111 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:08.160 go to church. One of them actually didn't, but but 112 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:10.160 we go to church, and you know, we go to 113 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:11.959 Young Life and that we kind of think we kind 114 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:17.040 of get enough Bible that way. And so I had 115 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.319 a little bit of a crazy idea, and so I 116 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.680 suggested to them, well, well, what if we did a 117 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:27.040 Bible study and we didn't use the Bible? And they, 118 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:31.759 as you can imagine, looked at me like I deserved, 119 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.680 like I had a couple of nuts loose, and uh said, 120 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.360 and but yeah. They came back and said, well, if 121 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.240 we could do a Bible study without the Bible, we're 122 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:47.600 in and what would that look like? And so what 123 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.839 I suggested to them was, I'll tell you what you 124 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.680 come up with a question, and we'll answer that question 125 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.560 next week, and we won't use the Bible. So we 126 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:02.759 spend a year, in almost a year and a half 127 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.079 with a group of kids who grew to about probably 128 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.920 a total of ten twelve fifteen kids that would rotate 129 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:12.680 and be you know, eight or ten each Friday morning 130 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:18.839 at six thirty am, and they would ask a question, 131 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:23.319 you know, like is God good because I see a 132 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:27.319 whole lot of evil in the world, and a whole 133 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:33.000 variety of questions around dating, or around homosexuality, or around 134 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:36.960 all the issues that were important to them. And so 135 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.080 each each week they would ask a question one week, 136 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.320 and then the next week I would come in with 137 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:47.200 some answers or some books or various things come in 138 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.240 with a lot of questions for them too, and so 139 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:55.039 pretty much we'd spend most of the time just looking 140 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:59.320 at what science or philosophy or life experience or whatever 141 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.320 would tell you an answer to those questions. And then 142 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.759 I'd always say, would you be interested in hearing what 143 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.559 the Bible has to say? And what was very obvious 144 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:13.000 to them, and frankly first to me, was how the 145 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.000 Bible is a shortcut. If you want to know the 146 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:19.240 real answer, you can get it pretty quickly through the scriptures. 147 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:23.720 But you don't have to have the scriptures because the truth, 148 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:27.240 that is God's made evident back to Romans one nineteen, 149 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.799 all around us will give you answers to every one 150 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:35.200 of those same questions. You don't have to have a Bible. 151 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:38.840 And as most of us know, for eons there was 152 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:43.360 no Bible, but God was showing himself every single day. 153 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:47.559 So fast forward to the next year, Waverley and I 154 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:52.600 started putting this material together and decided that there was 155 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:58.960 a story to tell without using all the academic approaches. 156 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:03.120 And we didn't think that high schoolers would actually read 157 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.440 much of an academic book, but they might read a 158 00:10:05.480 --> 00:10:08.639 good story. So that's how we kind of settled on 159 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.840 that format. 160 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.879 That is that is awesome. So the way I look 161 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:17.200 at this is we all go through life. 162 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:20.519 We're all going to make decisions that are either good, bad, 163 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:21.759 and different at times. 164 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:28.240 But when we're at that cusp where we are. 165 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:33.799 Going through that maybe late middle school, high school, into 166 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.799 early college, like you're talking about Waverley, is we see 167 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:41.279 that we're forming our identity of who we are at 168 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:45.399 that time, are you know? And at my for me personally, 169 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:47.039 I didn't want anything to do with God at that 170 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:50.399 point in my life. I had absolutely nothing, and it 171 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:52.480 took a kind of amazing thing for me to kind 172 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:53.440 of jump back and to. 173 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.399 Want God in my life. But not everybody is so lucky. 174 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:00.840 We have to have people around us that are helping 175 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:04.360 us form those opinions and bringing us and keeping that 176 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.720 identity to our life because you have a choice. You 177 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.559 can either identify with Christ or you can identify with 178 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.360 the world. And that's the time when most people make 179 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:19.600 those biggest decisions and make some of the biggest mistakes 180 00:11:19.600 --> 00:11:23.159 that all through their life. So you guys that are 181 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:25.799 with what you're saying, you're attacking right at the right 182 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.879 And I say attacking, you know what I mean? But 183 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:31.679 you're attacking right at the right level that is so 184 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.279 underserved in our world today because of the worldly views 185 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.919 and the things that they're impressed with around Social media 186 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.440 is the devil. I mean, we try to use it 187 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:44.200 for good, but it is after our kids. It is 188 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.639 after our kids, and that's it's just awesome that you 189 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:54.480 guys found that whole and made that niche for those kids. 190 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.559 I just think that's a powerful way, and you're hitting 191 00:11:57.639 --> 00:11:59.440 the right demographic. 192 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.480 Because I mean, I had hunch that this was based 193 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:06.840 off of a true account of some sort because it 194 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.399 just sounded too personal. And I personally read this and 195 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.000 I really enjoyed this, and I even told them, you know, 196 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:17.080 pre roll that after I had finished it, I'd give 197 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:19.320 it to my teenage daughter to read because I just 198 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.639 knew that she would really enjoy it and there was 199 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.840 lots of stuff in there that would identify with her 200 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:31.360 and prepare her and arm her with truth and so. 201 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.639 But yeah, but as I was reading that, I was 202 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.399 just like, well, either this is somebody you know, Rick 203 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:42.240 or Waverley knows a grandchild, you know, or something, because 204 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:46.600 it was just it was very personal, very relatable, you know, 205 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:48.600 it seemed very real. 206 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:50.440 Well, it is very real. 207 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.480 I think both of our experiences are weaved in there, 208 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.159 but not just my dad's and mine. 209 00:12:58.399 --> 00:12:59.120 I think that. 210 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:06.519 The experience the main character goes through Harper. She is 211 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:13.840 a similar character to many many men and women who 212 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:18.080 have grown up with Christian parents, who attend church but 213 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.679 have never really wrestled with their faith, like what does 214 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.759 it mean to believe that God is good? Because they've 215 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.759 maybe never had any tragedy happen to them, They've kind 216 00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:31.639 of maybe stayed in a small town bubble, or maybe 217 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:34.440 not even a small town, but they have attended a 218 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.240 private school their whole life, or they have had the 219 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.840 same group of friends their whole life. And so you're 220 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:46.440 really when you get to college, for many people, that's 221 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.240 the first time you're experiencing life on your own. And 222 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:55.279 so with that comes a wrestling of who am I 223 00:13:55.919 --> 00:14:00.320 apart from my family, apart from my hometown, apart from 224 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:06.120 my group of friends I grew up with. And so 225 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.919 that can be a time where you're a sponge. 226 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:09.480 You're kind of. 227 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:16.399 Absorbing the thoughts and ideals and philosophies of your peers, 228 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:22.279 your new peers, or your professors, or even your youth 229 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.200 group leaders or you know, whatever it is. You're involved 230 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:32.960 in political groups, sororities or fraternities, your club, soccer team, 231 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:35.080 whatever you're involved in. 232 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:37.799 In college, you're absorbing kind of. 233 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:42.200 These new experiences and so how does that influence you? 234 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:45.320 And if you're not really if you don't really have 235 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.919 a good foundation, your faith can really take some hits, 236 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:51.960 and especially if you don't have. 237 00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:53.799 People. 238 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.639 I mean, I feel very blessed that I had my dad, 239 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.440 but a lot of people don't have some that they 240 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.639 can really go to and say, ooh, I'm really having 241 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.879 this thought. I mean, somebody came to me with some 242 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.399 really good questions and I don't know the answers, and I. 243 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:11.720 Thought I would. 244 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:15.679 I thought I knew that God was good, but they 245 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.679 had a really really good argument for that and. 246 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:19.840 I had nothing to say. 247 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:25.279 So that was really kind of our heart in it 248 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:28.399 was to be able to really flesh out these conversations. 249 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:33.240 Maybe for maybe for college kids, but I think it's 250 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:38.399 the earlier in middle school, early high school, so you 251 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.799 have the time to really have those good conversations with 252 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.600 your with your students or with your children, I think 253 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.120 is ideal. 254 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:53.519 So yeah, it's I think it's really cool, and you 255 00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:54.519 look at that the same way. 256 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:56.879 I kind of hit it a little bit already. 257 00:15:56.879 --> 00:15:59.519 But a lot of time we focus so much on 258 00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:02.039 who can we reach out there with the gospel, and 259 00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:05.080 that's a really important thing. The Great Commission's amazing, But 260 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.480 if you look at the majority of the New Testament, 261 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.480 it's not about reaching out to everybody. 262 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.639 It's about Paul's write letter and letter and letter. 263 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.320 Again, trying to strengthen the people that are already in 264 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:21.000 the church. We're not the church itself continues to need 265 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:23.120 to be fed. Once you're in the church, once you're 266 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:25.480 a believer in Christ, you still need to be fed 267 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:30.200 every day. You still need that to grow. You still 268 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:35.279 need the Christian the Christian inner circle that helps keep 269 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.159 you on the right path if you stray away from that. 270 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.279 And you were talking about that the same thing with 271 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:43.720 I think about it. My wife always says us, she 272 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.080 says inner circle, outer circle. Right, we have friends that 273 00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:51.159 are not Christian, or that maybe live a different lifestyle 274 00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:53.440 or do different things that maybe we don't agree with, 275 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.279 but that's not our inner circle. Our inner circle is 276 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.679 our believers are are people that keep us on the 277 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.559 right track. We still want to witness all those other people, 278 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.200 but that's our outer circle. We're not letting them influence us, 279 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:06.880 you know what I mean. And I think that's it's 280 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:10.240 just really important that we strengthen the believers in the church, 281 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.920 especially the younger generation that's dealing with things that me 282 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.200 and Justin didn't even have to deal with, or you, Waverley, 283 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.720 because you're even younger than both of us. 284 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:19.000 I think it's true. 285 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:21.920 I don't know how old you I you Sar, but 286 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.440 I feel pretty old sometimes. 287 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.039 But yeah, I think if you it's. 288 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.640 Not I think if your inner circle is asking the questions, 289 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.119 because you can have an inner circle of people who 290 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.079 believe the same things that you do, but we all 291 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:44.920 have different life experiences, right, so we are coming into 292 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.240 the conversations whatever those conversations look like as far as 293 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.880 you know, what we believe, like flashing that out and 294 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:59.400 we all kind of have this background, this lived experience 295 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.039 that influence and says that, and so it's it's really 296 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.039 good if you if you have those inner circles of 297 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.799 friends that you really kind of pressed into each other, 298 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.319 you know, don't just be an echo chamber, but really 299 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.440 say you know, we're talking about Oh yes, God. 300 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:15.960 Is so good. 301 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.839 You know, why do we believe that God is so good? 302 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.160 You know what, what in our lives has pushed up 303 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.200 against that and we're able to push back, you know, 304 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.880 with the truth, because I think that is very real. 305 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:36.640 When you have tragedy in your life, when you somebody 306 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:39.599 doesn't meet your expectations, lets you down, when you have 307 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:45.759 loss of relationship or you know, whatever that might look like. 308 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.359 You your your faith, no matter how how strong you 309 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.799 thought it was when life was going really great, you 310 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.839 can begin to question no matter how long you've known 311 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:59.359 the Lord. I became a believer when I was young. 312 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:05.480 I think I was maybe five or six, and so 313 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:09.599 there wasn't much time of six, There wasn't There wasn't 314 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:15.200 much time I didn't have a relationship with Jesus. But 315 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.400 I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't 316 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:24.240 come up against some really big obstacles to believing God 317 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:31.720 was good in my college and my young adult even 318 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:37.759 now in my thirties, so you know, searching for proof 319 00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:39.599 and faith. You know, at the end of the book, 320 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:43.839 for those who read it, you know, we wanted to 321 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.799 end with it's it's going to be a lifelong journey. 322 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.920 It is not about finding the answers and that being it. 323 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.079 You say, I got the answer, I'm good. 324 00:19:56.599 --> 00:19:57.799 You know. I think. 325 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:04.160 Throughout our lives, a personal relationship with Jesus means that 326 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.519 we are going to be asking questions and wrestling with 327 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:13.680 our faith, because that's living and breathing faith. He doesn't 328 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:17.759 want us to be these robots that just say, okay, 329 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.440 we're believers and that's that. He wants us to be 330 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.079 engaged with the world and what's going on around us 331 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:32.960 and always strengthening our faith. So we hope people read 332 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.200 the story and hope they get to the end of it. 333 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:38.079 And even if they are believers, even if they none 334 00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:40.519 of these answers are surprising to them, none of none 335 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.440 of the content of the book is surprising to them. 336 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:46.680 We hope that they are at least encouraged that it's 337 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.680 we hope that they grow in their faith their whole lives. 338 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:57.039 So, and what I found impressive was it was, you know, 339 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.359 the hero's journey. I mean when I read that, because 340 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:05.240 it's like you start off in your comfort zone. You know, 341 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.720 you're in your little you know, in her instance of 342 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.519 the story, she's in her little small town church, group 343 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.359 of friends, and family, and she you know, takes the 344 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:21.880 calling and goes off to college and her faith you know, 345 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:26.559 is challenged, and she actually starts to doubt and ask 346 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.480 the questions. And where she had been in her comfortable 347 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.079 bubble and not had nobody press on her, she didn't 348 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:37.559 have the answers and was able to you know, really 349 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.279 defend her faith or really or her faith had never 350 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.839 really been under attack. And then you have that in 351 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:50.599 these hero journey stories. But then usually following right after 352 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:56.440 that is where what they call the supernatural aid comes, 353 00:21:56.920 --> 00:21:59.279 you know, the calling comes, you accept the calling, then 354 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.559 there's some super natural aid. In this story, she gets 355 00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.680 a familiar face and a friend that gives her some 356 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:14.160 aid and strengthens her and calls her back, you know, 357 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:19.119 to to her Christian roots. And but with this story, 358 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:24.480 could you just you know, touch on how how it's 359 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:31.599 relevant and how applicable in young people's lives, and how 360 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.000 the importance of your inner circle as we talked about, 361 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:40.839 but also stepping out of your comfort zone and having 362 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:46.400 difficult questions. And was it that scripture you always mentioned, Steve, 363 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:48.599 was it verse Peter three point fifteen? 364 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.119 Always be able to give a reason for the hope 365 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.640 that you have, but do so with generalness and respect. 366 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:01.079 Yeah, I think that the audience for the book is important, 367 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:05.559 and so we wrote this as you can already tell 368 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.720 for high schoolers, by the way, I think that age 369 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:15.640 has maybe moved down into middle school today. I think 370 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.799 certainly eighth and ninth graders are confronted with all of 371 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:26.000 these challenges to their faith. And so in that context, 372 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.079 whether middle school, high school age, they're going to be 373 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:34.400 exposed to a lot of people. They may have been 374 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.319 living in their bubble, might have been surrounded by their 375 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.839 inner circle for lots of years, but they're soon going 376 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.279 to be outside of that bubble. And so the question 377 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.519 is are you just going to as a parent, are 378 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.319 you just going to kind of throw them out there 379 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.799 hoping that they make it, or are you going to 380 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.519 prepare them for the day in which they're going to 381 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:58.039 bar Erman, by the way, is one of the most 382 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:03.279 widely read, most called upon atheist in the world today. 383 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.720 That was who Waverley had as a sophomore in college 384 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:12.519 as her quote unquote New Testament professor. So fear warning here, 385 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.799 Christian parents that when you said your kid off to college, 386 00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.599 then we can talk about both secular and NOx and 387 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:25.599 parochial schools. Here on both they're going to be confronted 388 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:33.200 with questions about their faith, maybe with very radical answers 389 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.160 that will take them way way far. So my question 390 00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:40.799 to parents is are you willing to take the time 391 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.160 to allow your kids to ask the questions and then 392 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:49.880 gently guide them to the right answers. And if you don't, 393 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.519 then you're going to be throwing them out to the 394 00:24:53.559 --> 00:25:00.119 faith lists wolves, And as the scriptures teach us to 395 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.160 share the devil, we'll send a pack of wolves out 396 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.720 there to absolutely grab your children's faith as they become 397 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.920 young adults. Especially so in any case, long long answer 398 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.720 there to say that we want to equip both children, 399 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.880 and I would say equip their parents with a door 400 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:24.240 to step into answering some of the deeper questions about 401 00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:25.960