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Speaker 1: This is Timothy Albreno.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Trace Matt.

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Speaker 1: My name is La mar Hilly. This is doctor judperg

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This is Ryan Peterson.

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Speaker 3: If you want to know your Bible, you have to dig,

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and you're in the right place.

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Speaker 2: This is the Dig Bible Podcast.

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Speaker 4: Hey, what's going on on my local guys and gals

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and long distance pals.

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Speaker 2: We're back.

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Speaker 5: We're back without being all right, we're missing him.

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Speaker 2: We always miss Ben when he's not here.

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Speaker 5: You gotta do it again. You gotta do the Ben voice.

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Speaker 1: We're back.

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Speaker 2: That's I can't get as deep as Ben.

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Speaker 5: Being in that neighborhood. Friendly sasquash.

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Speaker 2: He's here in heart right here.

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Speaker 4: Well, today, guys, we got another banging episode for you guys.

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And uh it's a it's a returning guest. If you

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guys remember what it was. It two twenty two we

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had a guy named Rick Hasty and we had to

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talk on biblical worldview. Well, we have Rick back, and

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we actually have his daughter Waverley with us, and they

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actually have written a book together, and we wanted to

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have them on and talk about this book because we

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think that it's not only a great story, it's got

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a great message and it's relevant to the times that

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we're in today. So I'd just like to introduce to

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the show Rick and Waverley. So, guys, just for our

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new listeners that's not familiar with you, just kind of

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introduce yourself, likes, dislikes.

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Speaker 5: Background, just give us a feel for who you guys are.

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Speaker 6: I'm all the first. I'm Weaverly Cowards. I live in

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the North Georgia Mountains, about forty five minutes from Atlanta.

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I've been married nine and a half years. We have

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three amazing children run one seven year old son, a

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four year old.

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Speaker 7: Daughter, and a one year old daughters just.

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Speaker 6: Turned one, and by trade, I'm a marriage and family therapist,

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but taking some extended time off to mother and to

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homeschool and raise our children. So that also allows me

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to edit some books on the side and do podcasts.

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So couldn't couldn't do it without my husband, that's for sure.

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So shout out to shout out to him.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm the same guy that was hanging out with

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you a year or so ago. Justin and Steve and

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I know we've missed Ben, so we'll give a shout

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out to Ben there too. But in any case, I

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live in Charlotte part of the time and then live

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in Virginia up in the Tri Cities area near Justin

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and Steve, so we got to know each other a

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little bit. I've been doing management consulting for many, many years,

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and yet in the midst of all of that, somehow

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or another, God gave me a heart many years ago

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to get focused on apologetics and what it was like

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to defend our faith, not in academic settings so much

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as in the everyday life settings where people are struggling,

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they've got doubts, and I would say it's just as

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important for believers to keep questioning truth and getting it right.

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It's okay to question truth. And so as I learned

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that many years ago, I just recognized that I wanted

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to know more and more about who God is and

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not be fooled by the things that people say is

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but rather actually does not know about him either, but knowing.

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So that's been my journey over the years.

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Speaker 4: Well with the book, the titles and search you for

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Proof and Faith. So with this book, what does this

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give us? A breakdown the premise of the book, what

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is it about and how it came about?

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Speaker 6: Well, I attended for undergrad, I attended the University of

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North Carolina Chapel Hill, and I took a New Testament

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class my sophomore year with doctor bart Erman is his name.

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And after growing up in a Christian home, attending church

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my whole life, I did not expect silly me maybe,

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but I did not expect to take a New Testament

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class from a professor who did not believe.

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Speaker 7: It to be true, like at all.

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Speaker 6: And so I had, you know, several classes, and I

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would call my dad and begin to have these conversations

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about what he was talking about, the pushback he was giving,

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some quote unquote errors he was presenting, and my dad

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would flesh it out with me. We would kind of

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wrestle with these questions that came up, and I would

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get off the phone and talk it out with some

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of my peers because I did have believing peers.

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Speaker 7: Actually, I took.

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Speaker 6: The class with a couple of fellow young life leaders,

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and so I was able to kind of flesh it

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out with peers myself who knew and believed the Gospel

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to be true. And so it was just the first

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time I had really been presented with someone who was

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very smart, very intelligent, and yet. I mean, he was

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teaching Testament class and did not believe the New Testament

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to be true. So that was kind of a sound

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to me and an interruption to my smooth sailing faith,

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if you will.

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Speaker 7: So it was it was quite an experience. So and

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I'll let my dods share some of his side of

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that too.

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Speaker 1: Sort of along those same timeframes. My youngest son, who

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is now a senior in high school or almost a

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senior in high school, when kind of as first started,

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I realized that the time was coming to an end

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with him, and so I really wanted to try to

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encourage him to be doing Bible study regularly. And and

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so I approached him and a couple of his buddies

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and said, hey, what would you guys. Would you guys

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like to do a Bible study? And they said, let

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us think about it. And they thought about it and

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came back and said, nah, you know, we're we're we

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go to church. One of them actually didn't, but but

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we go to church, and you know, we go to

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Young Life and that we kind of think we kind

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of get enough Bible that way. And so I had

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a little bit of a crazy idea, and so I

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suggested to them, well, well, what if we did a

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Bible study and we didn't use the Bible? And they,

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as you can imagine, looked at me like I deserved,

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like I had a couple of nuts loose, and uh said,

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and but yeah. They came back and said, well, if

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we could do a Bible study without the Bible, we're

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in and what would that look like? And so what

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I suggested to them was, I'll tell you what you

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come up with a question, and we'll answer that question

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next week, and we won't use the Bible. So we

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spend a year, in almost a year and a half

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with a group of kids who grew to about probably

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a total of ten twelve fifteen kids that would rotate

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and be you know, eight or ten each Friday morning

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at six thirty am, and they would ask a question,

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you know, like is God good because I see a

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whole lot of evil in the world, and a whole

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variety of questions around dating, or around homosexuality, or around

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all the issues that were important to them. And so

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each each week they would ask a question one week,

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and then the next week I would come in with

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some answers or some books or various things come in

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with a lot of questions for them too, and so

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pretty much we'd spend most of the time just looking

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at what science or philosophy or life experience or whatever

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would tell you an answer to those questions. And then

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I'd always say, would you be interested in hearing what

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the Bible has to say? And what was very obvious

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to them, and frankly first to me, was how the

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Bible is a shortcut. If you want to know the

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real answer, you can get it pretty quickly through the scriptures.

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But you don't have to have the scriptures because the truth,

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that is God's made evident back to Romans one nineteen,

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all around us will give you answers to every one

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of those same questions. You don't have to have a Bible.

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And as most of us know, for eons there was

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no Bible, but God was showing himself every single day.

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So fast forward to the next year, Waverley and I

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started putting this material together and decided that there was

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a story to tell without using all the academic approaches.

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And we didn't think that high schoolers would actually read

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much of an academic book, but they might read a

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good story. So that's how we kind of settled on

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that format.

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Speaker 2: That is that is awesome. So the way I look

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at this is we all go through life.

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Speaker 3: We're all going to make decisions that are either good, bad,

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and different at times.

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Speaker 2: But when we're at that cusp where we are.

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Speaker 3: Going through that maybe late middle school, high school, into

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early college, like you're talking about Waverley, is we see

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that we're forming our identity of who we are at

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that time, are you know? And at my for me personally,

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I didn't want anything to do with God at that

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point in my life. I had absolutely nothing, and it

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took a kind of amazing thing for me to kind

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of jump back and to.

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Speaker 2: Want God in my life. But not everybody is so lucky.

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Speaker 3: We have to have people around us that are helping

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us form those opinions and bringing us and keeping that

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identity to our life because you have a choice. You

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can either identify with Christ or you can identify with

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the world. And that's the time when most people make

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those biggest decisions and make some of the biggest mistakes

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that all through their life. So you guys that are

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with what you're saying, you're attacking right at the right

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And I say attacking, you know what I mean? But

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you're attacking right at the right level that is so

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underserved in our world today because of the worldly views

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and the things that they're impressed with around Social media

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is the devil. I mean, we try to use it

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for good, but it is after our kids. It is

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after our kids, and that's it's just awesome that you

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guys found that whole and made that niche for those kids.

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I just think that's a powerful way, and you're hitting

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the right demographic.

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Speaker 4: Because I mean, I had hunch that this was based

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off of a true account of some sort because it

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just sounded too personal. And I personally read this and

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I really enjoyed this, and I even told them, you know,

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pre roll that after I had finished it, I'd give

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it to my teenage daughter to read because I just

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knew that she would really enjoy it and there was

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lots of stuff in there that would identify with her

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and prepare her and arm her with truth and so.

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But yeah, but as I was reading that, I was

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just like, well, either this is somebody you know, Rick

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or Waverley knows a grandchild, you know, or something, because

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it was just it was very personal, very relatable, you know,

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it seemed very real.

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Speaker 7: Well, it is very real.

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Speaker 6: I think both of our experiences are weaved in there,

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but not just my dad's and mine.

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Speaker 7: I think that.

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Speaker 6: The experience the main character goes through Harper. She is

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a similar character to many many men and women who

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have grown up with Christian parents, who attend church but

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have never really wrestled with their faith, like what does

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it mean to believe that God is good? Because they've

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maybe never had any tragedy happen to them, They've kind

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of maybe stayed in a small town bubble, or maybe

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not even a small town, but they have attended a

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private school their whole life, or they have had the

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same group of friends their whole life. And so you're

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really when you get to college, for many people, that's

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the first time you're experiencing life on your own. And

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so with that comes a wrestling of who am I

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apart from my family, apart from my hometown, apart from

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my group of friends I grew up with. And so

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that can be a time where you're a sponge.

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Speaker 7: You're kind of.

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Speaker 6: Absorbing the thoughts and ideals and philosophies of your peers,

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your new peers, or your professors, or even your youth

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group leaders or you know, whatever it is. You're involved

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in political groups, sororities or fraternities, your club, soccer team,

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whatever you're involved in.

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Speaker 7: In college, you're absorbing kind of.

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Speaker 6: These new experiences and so how does that influence you?

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And if you're not really if you don't really have

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a good foundation, your faith can really take some hits,

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and especially if you don't have.

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Speaker 7: People.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I feel very blessed that I had my dad,

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but a lot of people don't have some that they

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can really go to and say, ooh, I'm really having

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this thought. I mean, somebody came to me with some

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really good questions and I don't know the answers, and I.

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Speaker 7: Thought I would.

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Speaker 6: I thought I knew that God was good, but they

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had a really really good argument for that and.

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Speaker 7: I had nothing to say.

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Speaker 6: So that was really kind of our heart in it

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was to be able to really flesh out these conversations.

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Maybe for maybe for college kids, but I think it's

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the earlier in middle school, early high school, so you

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have the time to really have those good conversations with

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your with your students or with your children, I think

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is ideal.

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Speaker 7: So yeah, it's I think it's really cool, and you

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look at that the same way.

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Speaker 2: I kind of hit it a little bit already.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of time we focus so much on

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who can we reach out there with the gospel, and

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that's a really important thing. The Great Commission's amazing, But

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if you look at the majority of the New Testament,

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it's not about reaching out to everybody.

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Speaker 2: It's about Paul's write letter and letter and letter.

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Speaker 3: Again, trying to strengthen the people that are already in

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the church. We're not the church itself continues to need

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to be fed. Once you're in the church, once you're

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a believer in Christ, you still need to be fed

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every day. You still need that to grow. You still

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need the Christian the Christian inner circle that helps keep

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you on the right path if you stray away from that.

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And you were talking about that the same thing with

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I think about it. My wife always says us, she

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says inner circle, outer circle. Right, we have friends that

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are not Christian, or that maybe live a different lifestyle

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or do different things that maybe we don't agree with,

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but that's not our inner circle. Our inner circle is

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our believers are are people that keep us on the

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right track. We still want to witness all those other people,

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but that's our outer circle. We're not letting them influence us,

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you know what I mean. And I think that's it's

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just really important that we strengthen the believers in the church,

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especially the younger generation that's dealing with things that me

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and Justin didn't even have to deal with, or you, Waverley,

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because you're even younger than both of us.

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Speaker 2: I think it's true.

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Speaker 6: I don't know how old you I you Sar, but

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I feel pretty old sometimes.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, I think if you it's.

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Speaker 6: Not I think if your inner circle is asking the questions,

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because you can have an inner circle of people who

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believe the same things that you do, but we all

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have different life experiences, right, so we are coming into

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the conversations whatever those conversations look like as far as

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you know, what we believe, like flashing that out and

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we all kind of have this background, this lived experience

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that influence and says that, and so it's it's really

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good if you if you have those inner circles of

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friends that you really kind of pressed into each other,

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you know, don't just be an echo chamber, but really

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say you know, we're talking about Oh yes, God.

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Speaker 7: Is so good.

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Speaker 6: You know, why do we believe that God is so good?

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You know what, what in our lives has pushed up

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against that and we're able to push back, you know,

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with the truth, because I think that is very real.

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When you have tragedy in your life, when you somebody

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doesn't meet your expectations, lets you down, when you have

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loss of relationship or you know, whatever that might look like.

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You your your faith, no matter how how strong you

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thought it was when life was going really great, you

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can begin to question no matter how long you've known

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the Lord. I became a believer when I was young.

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I think I was maybe five or six, and so

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there wasn't much time of six, There wasn't There wasn't

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much time I didn't have a relationship with Jesus. But

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I would be lying if I didn't say I didn't

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come up against some really big obstacles to believing God

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was good in my college and my young adult even

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now in my thirties, so you know, searching for proof

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and faith. You know, at the end of the book,

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for those who read it, you know, we wanted to

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end with it's it's going to be a lifelong journey.

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It is not about finding the answers and that being it.

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You say, I got the answer, I'm good.

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Speaker 7: You know. I think.

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Speaker 6: Throughout our lives, a personal relationship with Jesus means that

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we are going to be asking questions and wrestling with

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our faith, because that's living and breathing faith. He doesn't

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want us to be these robots that just say, okay,

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we're believers and that's that. He wants us to be

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engaged with the world and what's going on around us

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and always strengthening our faith. So we hope people read

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the story and hope they get to the end of it.

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And even if they are believers, even if they none

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of these answers are surprising to them, none of none

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of the content of the book is surprising to them.

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We hope that they are at least encouraged that it's

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we hope that they grow in their faith their whole lives.

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Speaker 4: So, and what I found impressive was it was, you know,

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the hero's journey. I mean when I read that, because

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it's like you start off in your comfort zone. You know,

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you're in your little you know, in her instance of

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the story, she's in her little small town church, group

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of friends, and family, and she you know, takes the

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calling and goes off to college and her faith you know,

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is challenged, and she actually starts to doubt and ask

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the questions. And where she had been in her comfortable

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bubble and not had nobody press on her, she didn't

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have the answers and was able to you know, really

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defend her faith or really or her faith had never

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really been under attack. And then you have that in

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these hero journey stories. But then usually following right after

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that is where what they call the supernatural aid comes,

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you know, the calling comes, you accept the calling, then

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there's some super natural aid. In this story, she gets

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a familiar face and a friend that gives her some

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aid and strengthens her and calls her back, you know,

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to to her Christian roots. And but with this story,

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could you just you know, touch on how how it's

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relevant and how applicable in young people's lives, and how

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the importance of your inner circle as we talked about,

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but also stepping out of your comfort zone and having

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difficult questions. And was it that scripture you always mentioned, Steve,

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was it verse Peter three point fifteen?

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Speaker 3: Always be able to give a reason for the hope

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that you have, but do so with generalness and respect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the audience for the book is important,

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and so we wrote this as you can already tell

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for high schoolers, by the way, I think that age

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has maybe moved down into middle school today. I think

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certainly eighth and ninth graders are confronted with all of

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these challenges to their faith. And so in that context,

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whether middle school, high school age, they're going to be

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exposed to a lot of people. They may have been

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living in their bubble, might have been surrounded by their

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inner circle for lots of years, but they're soon going

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to be outside of that bubble. And so the question

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is are you just going to as a parent, are

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you just going to kind of throw them out there

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hoping that they make it, or are you going to

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prepare them for the day in which they're going to

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bar Erman, by the way, is one of the most

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widely read, most called upon atheist in the world today.

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That was who Waverley had as a sophomore in college

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as her quote unquote New Testament professor. So fear warning here,

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Christian parents that when you said your kid off to college,

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then we can talk about both secular and NOx and

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parochial schools. Here on both they're going to be confronted

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with questions about their faith, maybe with very radical answers

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that will take them way way far. So my question

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to parents is are you willing to take the time

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to allow your kids to ask the questions and then

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gently guide them to the right answers. And if you don't,

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then you're going to be throwing them out to the

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faith lists wolves, And as the scriptures teach us to

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share the devil, we'll send a pack of wolves out

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there to absolutely grab your children's faith as they become

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young adults. Especially so in any case, long long answer

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there to say that we want to equip both children,

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and I would say equip their parents with a door

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to step into answering some of the deeper questions about

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their faith than about life in general.

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Speaker 6: Parents should always be almost the first line of defense.

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But I think being intentional with who your children spend

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time with, because you have a say they're in your home,

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you do have a say about who they're inner circle.

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Speaker 7: Have conversations with them about who their inner is, have

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conversations about who they trust.

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Speaker 6: And maybe it's not you that they turn to. But

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do they have a wise small group leader, do they

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have a wise teacher? If they go to Christian school,

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do they have an older peer? Maybe in middle school

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there's a you know, a middle school high school peer

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type relationship.

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Speaker 7: Program.

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Speaker 6: It's the inner circle of your child is extraordinarily important.

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Pray for that, pray when they're for parents who are

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best starting out.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I have a seven.

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Speaker 6: Year old to four year old and one year old.

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I mean, I'm I'm praying for their peers. I'm praying

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for their current friendships, future friendships, even their peers parents,

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that the households that they grow up in and their

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experiences are they're surrounded by wisdom and knowledge of the truth.

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So it's it's incredibly important my opinion.

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Speaker 7: And it can be a lifelong set up.

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Speaker 6: You know, who your child's friends with their middle school

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school years.

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Speaker 7: Might be a friend.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, I don't know if I answer question.

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Speaker 3: Steve, Yeah, oh I agree one hundred percent. You talk

431
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about that like who do you go to you know

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when you're having a bad day, you know what I mean,

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when we're.

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Speaker 2: There kids, our kids come to us, Our kids come.

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Speaker 3: And they they you know, will say, oh, this kid

436
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was mean to me, or this happened at school or whatever.

437
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As they get a little bit older, they go to

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their friends. But is that friend, that person that you're

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relying on. Is that someone who's going to turn you

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towards the world or are they going to turn you

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back to Christ?

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Speaker 2: So we have to always know.

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Speaker 3: And that's for me like this podcast, just being part

444
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of this has been such a blessing because I can

445
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talk to Justin about this anytime I want. I can

446
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talk to Ben anytime I want. I have Christian friends

447
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that ground me, and that all this has done is

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grow my faith because even as an adult, I mean,

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I'm you know, I'm only nineteen, but even as an

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adult like I still need my faith to be strengthened

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by the people around me. There are times, even in

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my adult life, without my wife being her what she

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is with her faith, that I would have fallen away

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because something was hard or something hit me and like

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you said, the struggles that we go through. If it

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wasn't for her, I would have fallen away. But because

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I had a wife with a phenomenal Christian upbringing and

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foundation faith, and that without her I might not be

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sitting here.

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Speaker 2: So you're right.

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Speaker 3: It's a lifelong process. It doesn't stop. So it is important.

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It isn't all those choices we make, who we marry,

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you know, go back, who your friends are. All those

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things make a big difference in how your faith is

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going to grow over the years. But it does start,

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or like you said, Rick, it's starting younger and younger

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and younger. Now, I mean, it's the stuff that's happening

468
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when they have they're putting litter boxes and bathrooms at schools.

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Speaker 2: I can't, I just I don't even know what to say.

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It's just crazy to me.

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Speaker 3: So you're right, you guys, it's powerful, but you're going

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to have to write another one that speaks to like

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middle schoolers now, so you're gonna have to go after that.

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Speaker 1: Great news is I think for kids and parents, and

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then I would take even college students, particularly those that

476
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might not have been confronted with some of these issues.

477
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Is that what we've tried to do in our book

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is not just tell a story, but also provide resources.

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So there's nine chapters in the book and they cover

480
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:02,799
nine different myths that our kids and we are being

481
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:10,720
sold every day by the media around us. By by frankly,

482
00:30:10,839 --> 00:30:15,960
just everyday conversations that accept things like evolution or accept

483
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,359
things like there is no God or et cetera, and

484
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:28,359
especially today, try to push the lbgt Q agenda. Don't

485
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:31,480
be fooled. I mean, we're being bombarded every single day,

486
00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:37,440
so are there answers. So while our story addresses those myths,

487
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,000
at the same time, at the end of every chapter,

488
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,720
we we give a plethora of resources for people to

489
00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:50,480
dig deeper. And I would say, you know, for us,

490
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,559
it certainly is a is a goal of ours that

491
00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:57,400
you might give your high school or a book that

492
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,839
maybe they read, maybe they don't read, but they keep

493
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,920
so that as those questions arise, they maybe go to

494
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,160
a chapter to financiers, or maybe go to the end

495
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:15,000
of the chapter and find a long list of books, podcasts, websites,

496
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,599
all of which would lead them YouTube videos, all of

497
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,519
which would lead them to find out more and find

498
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:30,960
out truthful answers, not just hypotheses that are being presented

499
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,559
as fact.

500
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:35,119
Speaker 3: I love that you say hypotheses because I can't stand

501
00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:38,400
when they say the theory of evolution, because the theory means

502
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,519
that you've been able to replicate it to some degree

503
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:42,559
and yes.

504
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: Yes, the dig gets a mentioned. You bet it does.

505
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:48,119
Speaker 5: That's what I was about to say. I didn't know

506
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:52,039
if it will be crass to.

507
00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:56,279
Speaker 4: Take a victory lab and I was like, yes, thank you, Rick,

508
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:02,319
we are now publicized. Three rednecks in the garage are

509
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:03,720
publicized now.

510
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: Well, as I was saying, you've been publicized by a

511
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,880
lot more than me. I know, but your long list

512
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:19,279
of podcasts participants have been so impressive over the last

513
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,599
couple of years. You guys have done an amazing job.

514
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,279
So how could we leave you out?

515
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 5: Yeah? Well that was all God there.

516
00:32:25,839 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 4: We just asked, and God put it on their heart

517
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,400
for them to say yes, so we'll show up and talk.

518
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,640
But I had a two part question for you. One

519
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:40,839
Waverley with you put in that position, and I know

520
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:44,440
Rick well enough to know that you were in a

521
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:49,039
Christian household and you were, you know, painting with a

522
00:32:49,079 --> 00:32:53,359
broad brush, but you were well equipped. But you being

523
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:57,359
put in that position that you were in, how did

524
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,440
that make you feel? Did you ever have any moments

525
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:09,799
where you may have doubted your faith or felt just

526
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:13,799
under attack? I mean, how did you feel being put

527
00:33:13,839 --> 00:33:19,119
in that position? And then when you're done, Rick, I

528
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,880
think it's important too to speak on the basis of apologetics,

529
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:30,440
because the friend in this story done such a good job.

530
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:36,079
If she would have handled this situation differently, she wouldn't

531
00:33:36,119 --> 00:33:39,599
have been able to change her friend's mind. And I

532
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,319
know those classes that we did you talked about you know, basically,

533
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:48,279
apologetics is not the art of arguing and winning arguments.

534
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 5: It's about relationship.

535
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: So for the people that are listening and they have

536
00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,240
that friend that is either not a non believer or

537
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:01,880
question their faith, maybe you could just touch on that

538
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,039
a little bit to equip those people to handle those situations.

539
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 5: I think that would be really important.

540
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 7: I would be.

541
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 6: Remiss to not acknowledge that my college years I was

542
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:24,360
not always as strong in my faith as I was

543
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,840
growing up. I think some of that is a very

544
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:34,119
normal thing. If I could, I could encourage every parent developmentally,

545
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,559
every child is going to go through a season.

546
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 7: Maybe that's a couple months, maybe that's.

547
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 6: A couple of years where your child is going to

548
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,760
be trying to figure out who.

549
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:49,519
Speaker 7: They are in the world and what that looks like,

550
00:34:50,039 --> 00:34:51,880
and they're going to be trying on all.

551
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,559
Speaker 6: Sorts of identities, and that may be really peoful and

552
00:34:56,599 --> 00:35:00,960
really difficult to watch. It may be, it may be

553
00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:06,480
just a lip. But for me, I think even though

554
00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,800
my faith was not as strong, I had such a good,

555
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:15,280
solid foundation of truth. Parents who prayed for me, prayed

556
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,800
with me, who asked hard questions, who were not afraid

557
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,920
of confrontation. When I was living at high school and

558
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:33,079
kind of not living out of my faith, the world

559
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,119
influence who I was, but they didn't shy away from

560
00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:40,679
asking those hard questions, and I would just encourage like

561
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,119
that had such a huge influence when that happened in

562
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:43,719
high school.

563
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 7: That had such a huge influence on me.

564
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 6: In college because they were still asking hard questions, but

565
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:57,239
I wasn't under their roof, and so Gosh, the Lord

566
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,360
never let go of me. I never praise Jesus. I

567
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,440
don't think there was a single day in which I

568
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,760
did not believe in the truth of Scripture. I did

569
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,559
not believe that God wasn't real. I did not believe that,

570
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:18,840
you know, that God didn't create the earth, or.

571
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,639
Speaker 7: You know, whatever questions. I was kind of hit with.

572
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,119
Speaker 6: Praise Jesus that I always now did my life look

573
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,880
exactly like I was living out of faith and truth?

574
00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:35,159
Speaker 7: No, because I just had such a good.

575
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 6: Foundation that I know in my heart I never walked

576
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:44,159
away from the Gospel. So if that makes sense, you

577
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,960
have to acknowledge where there are seasons in which your

578
00:36:47,039 --> 00:36:51,400
faith is not as strong. But again, I just had

579
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,760
a really good childhood, a really great adolescence, a really

580
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,920
great beginning of my teen years, parents that were very

581
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,639
involved in my life. I had amazing small group leaders

582
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,079
starting from middle school years of women who loved me,

583
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:12,960
who spoke truth to me. My parents attended a church

584
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:21,199
where the gospel was preached and preached clearly, So I

585
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,840
hope I answered what you were kind of getting after.

586
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,920
But I think it's important as faith, And now that

587
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,119
I'm a parent, I hope that when I get to

588
00:37:32,199 --> 00:37:36,559
the teenage years that I also allow my child to wrestle.

589
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,800
But the wrestling is really important because then at the

590
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,599
end of it, their faith really becomes their own.

591
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,159
Speaker 7: You know, you're.

592
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:48,079
Speaker 6: Investing in your child, you're praying for your child, you're

593
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,760
speaking truth. We're doing Catechism with my seven year old,

594
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,239
memorizing Catechism.

595
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:54,559
Speaker 7: You're trying to.

596
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 6: Input as much gospel truth into their life as you

597
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,440
possibly can. But it's not going to be probably until

598
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,440
his teenage years and maybe your early adulthood in which

599
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,079
he solidifies that for himself. And I'm going to have why,

600
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:13,320
I have nothing to do with it anyway, It's all

601
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:19,039
It's all Christ, whether and when those seats get planted

602
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:21,119
and sprout and grow.

603
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 7: But I don't want my faith to be his faith.

604
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,920
I want his faith to be his own.

605
00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 6: I want it tend to be rock solid, and no

606
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,800
Christ to know the truth of the Gospel, because he

607
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,079
believes it to be true, not because I told him

608
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:46,880
it was. So, Yeah, I just did an encouragement for parents,

609
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:52,840
and just out of my own story, those seasons of

610
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:56,599
perhaps your child going off there, it can produce really

611
00:38:56,639 --> 00:38:57,119
great fruit.

612
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,199
Speaker 1: So we know anybody that's got more than one child

613
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,400
is that they're not all alike. And so not all

614
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:13,039
of my kids were quite as passionate around their faith

615
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,039
as Waverley was, I would say, pretty much through her

616
00:39:17,639 --> 00:39:23,039
college years too. Not suggesting she was perfect, but I

617
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:26,079
am suggesting that you know, you've got to deal with

618
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:29,199
your children as they are who they are, and so

619
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:34,880
as you know justin we wrote the original story back

620
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,679
fifteen years ago, and then we rewrote it more recently

621
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,400
and kind of updated it with a few things, including

622
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:49,760
a chapter on the OLGBGQ myths about Christianity. And so

623
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,239
I think what we're more sensitive to today, although this

624
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,519
was the original story, is it defending your faith is

625
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:06,480
to others who would who would mock us? Is not

626
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:14,159
about arguments. It's about demonstrating truth first and foremost with

627
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:21,320
our own demonstration of love. And so the story that

628
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,719
we tell here is not about a person who gets

629
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:32,719
offended because her former friend is now openly questioning our faith,

630
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,440
but rather coming alongside of them. And I think that's

631
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:40,639
just as true even with a stranger and justin you

632
00:40:40,679 --> 00:40:44,400
remember when we were talking about defending our faith together

633
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,880
a few years ago, that, you know, we just really

634
00:40:49,039 --> 00:40:54,559
emphasized that, as as Steve is quoting in first Peter three,

635
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:58,719
that our goal is to defend our faith with gentleness

636
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:07,760
and reverence, not within your face arguments. Because I believe

637
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,400
when we do attempt to come alongside of people and

638
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,800
demonstrate love, that we're really just kind of planting seed

639
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,679
into fertile soil so that the Holy Spirit might work.

640
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:28,360
And so we hope that our character in this story

641
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,519
is kind of setting an example of how to come

642
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:36,119
alongside someone who's questioning their faith, and then work through

643
00:41:36,159 --> 00:41:41,199
a process with them, find out what really matters to them,

644
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,000
find out where they discovered these what they think is true,

645
00:41:47,679 --> 00:41:50,840
which is more often than not really truly are just

646
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:56,840
fi is just fiction. And so you know, we'd be

647
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:03,760
remiss though to not just mention the people that have

648
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,920
that are a part of our bibliographies here. But a

649
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,880
big inspiration for us even to write the book was

650
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:17,320
Norm Geisler. And anybody who knows anything about apologetics knows

651
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:22,079
that Norm Geiser's is one of the foremost writers more

652
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:25,920
than one hundred books on various topics around philosophy and

653
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:33,880
logic and apologetics. Together with one of his his key disciples,

654
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,000
Frank Turiku, today is probably one of the best known

655
00:42:38,119 --> 00:42:43,159
speakers debaters around apologetics. And then you know, we borrored

656
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,440
from all kinds of people, not just quoting him in

657
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:51,559
the book, but then having their materials in the bibliographies,

658
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:55,719
but people like Josh McDowell and even more recently his

659
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:03,320
son today Sean McDowell, more more modern names like Abigail

660
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,599
Shreer and Rebecca mcgoflin. These are people who've done tremendous

661
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,280
work to help people formulate their ideas well. And yet

662
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,360
every one of them, I think that we name also

663
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,960
have a humility about them that they recognize this isn't

664
00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:25,199
just about winning an argument. However, we do have the

665
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,800
upper hand on the arguments. We reserve the God of truth,

666
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:34,880
the God who created all things and made them in

667
00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:38,719
order that they might bring him glory and demonstrate who

668
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,880
he is. And so I'd say, in the midst of this,

669
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,199
probably the greatest message to start with for me is

670
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:51,480
the most common theme that I hear oftentimes, Well, if

671
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,880
God would just show himself, Well, he's been doing that

672
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,519
from the beginning of time, and if we're just open

673
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:04,679
to look, we absolutely will see him.

674
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:07,679
Speaker 4: And if you're doing your job right, they'll see him

675
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,679
through you, you know. And that's one thing that I

676
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,199
just loved about that because I see it all the time,

677
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,719
and then I've been guilty of it myself. Somebody that's

678
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:23,320
straight from their faith or they're not a believer, to

679
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,880
just disassociate, you know, or argue with them. When they

680
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,440
argue back, you get angry and split, you know. I

681
00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:34,880
like how doctor Phil always said, you know, you can

682
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,440
be right or you can be happy, but you can't

683
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:40,960
have both. So you've got to ask yourself, yo, what's

684
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,159
more important you being right and being a right fighter,

685
00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:50,079
or loving your neighbors you love yourself and meeting them

686
00:44:50,119 --> 00:44:54,320
where they're at and with gentle and kindness and asking

687
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,159
the right questions. Because in that story, had been very

688
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:02,280
easy for this hometown girl to just see her apost state,

689
00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:07,679
you know, sister, and just shed her and distance her

690
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,039
and talk about her to her mama on the phone

691
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,119
later that night, you know, but she did.

692
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: How do we bring people closer to Christ if we

693
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:20,920
just argue with them, if they see us and we

694
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:26,639
come from a place of condemnation or judgment, and we're

695
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:30,079
telling them what you're evil, what you're doing is wrong,

696
00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:31,159
you're doing these things.

697
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 2: Ultimately, we aren't the ones that judge.

698
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:37,159
Speaker 3: There is but one judge, and there is one judgment,

699
00:45:37,199 --> 00:45:39,679
and it's at that white throne of judgment that's going

700
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,800
to happen at the end of time. In the meantime

701
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,320
we are called upon when Jesus, when Jesus was asked

702
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,440
by the lawyer, which is the greatest of the commandments,

703
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,239
he said, love the Lord your God with all your heart,

704
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,679
soul of mind, and love your neighbor as yourself, and

705
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,360
then everything else falls into place. It doesn't matter your neighbor,

706
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,559
is everybody love everybody. I don't care what their lifestyle is.

707
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:03,880
I don't care what their their ideas are. If I

708
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,599
come at somebody and and treat them like they are

709
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,880
a black sheep, guess what, that's gonna only drive them

710
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:09,880
further away from God.

711
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:11,599
Speaker 2: I need to show them love.

712
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,320
Speaker 3: I need to show them compassion and try to show

713
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:14,920
them Christ through my actions.

714
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:16,559
Speaker 2: And that's what we're all called to do.

715
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 7: I do think we are living in a world.

716
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 6: Where that love is The definition is very tricky, and

717
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,679
our definition of love as believers is not quite what

718
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:38,800
the world says is love. And I think, you know,

719
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,480
going back to what you're saying to have an answer

720
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,480
is really important, not in order to argue.

721
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: But.

722
00:46:48,159 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 7: Because it's really important to be.

723
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 6: Clear about what the Gospel says and not to allow

724
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:57,519
the world to kind of muddy it down, like sometimes

725
00:46:57,559 --> 00:47:00,559
to get thrown out. You know, Jesus just love to people,

726
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:04,800
and well, yeah he did. He really loved them. He

727
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,800
loved them enough to speak the truth to them. He

728
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,840
he loved them enough two to call them out of

729
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,639
sin and call them to himself and to redeem them.

730
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,320
He loved them enough to die on the cross for

731
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:30,280
their sins. And so I think it's really important these

732
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:36,599
days to have clear definitions about what loving people.

733
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 7: Looks like.

734
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 6: And and and to the Christian who goes off like

735
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:47,639
our heroine, so to speak, the main character in our story.

736
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,280
You know, she she goes off and she's trying to

737
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:56,000
figure it out, you know, the the girl who's older

738
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,440
than her, Maya who's kind of speaking into her. She's

739
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,519
she doesn't ty away from from the truth. She she

740
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:10,880
calls her friend to wrestle, to engage, and she doesn't say, oh,

741
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,280
you're just you know, you want to explore these new

742
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,320
age ideas.

743
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 7: You go right ahead. I'll just like love you.

744
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,559
Speaker 6: You know, right on through that. You know, she really

745
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:26,199
gently invites her into kind of calling her back to

746
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,039
her faith.

747
00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:31,599
Speaker 5: Head. I'll pray for you, yeah.

748
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,119
Speaker 7: Exactly exactly.

749
00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:37,039
Speaker 6: You know, I just accept you exactly how you are,

750
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,320
which you know, in some ways she does. She accepts

751
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,360
where she is, but she she doesn't kind.

752
00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 7: Of let her stay there, you know, she gives her some.

753
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:52,599
Speaker 6: Push back and helps her think things through all the way.

754
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 3: So that's that gentleness and respect.

755
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. I got a question for you, guys.

756
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,199
You're I'm just curious about this. I'm just thinking out

757
00:49:03,199 --> 00:49:04,719
loud with you for a minute. But I think y'all

758
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:10,079
will have a perspective on it, which is it is

759
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:18,400
Satan strategic And by that what I mean is, you know,

760
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:22,039
we wrote this book fifteen years ago and now we

761
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:26,880
just rewrote it, and so in between a lot has happened.

762
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,360
You know, our world has shifted at a rapid pace.

763
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:37,719
And I would say that that Christianity is under siege

764
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:43,239
in America today, very very differently, not that satan one

765
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,840
that work twenty five fifty one hundred years two hundred

766
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:53,239
years ago, but it seems different to me. And I'm

767
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,199
just wondering, do you think Satan has changed his tactics?

768
00:49:58,039 --> 00:49:58,199
Speaker 6: Oh?

769
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:03,159
Speaker 5: One, per He's destroying us from the inside. Now.

770
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:09,639
Speaker 4: Now you got churches bringing you know, cross dressers and

771
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:15,000
and things into the quote unquote church and reading to

772
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:18,960
children and talking about love there. Even he's even taking

773
00:50:19,159 --> 00:50:21,440
with just saying a new trick, it's old trick. He

774
00:50:21,559 --> 00:50:24,360
was doing it back in Genesis, taking the word of God,

775
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,880
manipulating it to make Jacob and some of these other

776
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,400
characters David to seem like they were homosexuals and twisting

777
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:38,079
the word of God. But it's he's definitely changing everything

778
00:50:38,119 --> 00:50:41,960
and going into and infiltrating the church and trying to

779
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,199
destroy it from the inside.

780
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,639
Speaker 3: In my opinion, I don't I agree and disagree at

781
00:50:48,639 --> 00:50:49,280
the same time.

782
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,519
Speaker 2: But that's me and Justin like to do that a lot.

783
00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:55,639
I'll say that that we see.

784
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,760
Speaker 3: Things I think a little bit differently, but I don't

785
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,440
see today is any different than the way role was

786
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:03,800
how Rome fell apart. Right, it turns everything turns into

787
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,400
debauchery and you know, do what you want to do,

788
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:10,000
and it was intermarrying and you're you're losing your culture

789
00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:13,079
and everything starts going a different direction. We start seeing

790
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:18,719
sin always being the center point of any culture that's

791
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:24,719
about to crumble, and we're seeing Satan and we Satan

792
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:31,800
himself kind of. So for example, let's say this way,

793
00:51:32,119 --> 00:51:34,440
look at Jesus when he's tempted in the desert, right,

794
00:51:34,599 --> 00:51:36,360
or he's tempted first, you know, it takes him on

795
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:38,280
top of the temple. You know, he goes up and says,

796
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,639
you know, throw yourself down, Angels will catch you, or

797
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,599
go to the desert or the I'm sorry, the high mountain.

798
00:51:44,679 --> 00:51:46,480
He says, if you bow down, I'll give you all

799
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,159
the kingdoms you can see. But at the very end

800
00:51:49,159 --> 00:51:51,480
of that, what is what does he say? What does

801
00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:54,960
it say in scripture? It says, Satan departed until an

802
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:01,360
opportune time. Guess what, As our society is degrading, the

803
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,199
time never seems more opportune than right now. Things are

804
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,639
falling apart, it says, he walks around like a prowling

805
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,440
lion looking for someone to devour.

806
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 2: That is happening right now.

807
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,079
Speaker 3: That is all these little things that we're seeing come

808
00:52:17,119 --> 00:52:22,280
into our society and slowly disintegrate people's faith from the inside.

809
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: And this is not just the non.

810
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 3: Christian population, this is from within the church. Like justin saying,

811
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,199
this is happening all around us, and we're seeing the

812
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:39,000
degradation of what we call the Christian Church and the idea.

813
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,920
The word Christian doesn't mean what we like to think

814
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,360
it means sometimes because how many people out there call

815
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,679
them Christians but never go to church. They call themselves

816
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:50,760
that or not even that they go to church, but

817
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,400
they don't have that faith. If you look at the

818
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,519
way I look at this is. I always like to say,

819
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,559
Paul had it the best way. I'm a big fan

820
00:53:00,599 --> 00:53:03,159
of Paul. He's top three guy that I'll look up

821
00:53:03,199 --> 00:53:07,639
when I get to heaven. But Paul is the best way.

822
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:11,039
He said it when he's sitting there talking to it

823
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:13,639
his Festus and then King Agrippa, right, he talks about

824
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,400
I am a follower of the way Jesus said on

825
00:53:17,519 --> 00:53:18,559
the Way the truth in the life.

826
00:53:18,599 --> 00:53:20,639
Speaker 2: Paul says, I'm a follower of the way.

827
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:24,599
Speaker 3: And I think that's what we're what we're getting into

828
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:27,119
to now is all these other non salvation issues and

829
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:29,760
all these other things that start separating the church. It's

830
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,960
pulling us apart, it's picking apart the church because we're

831
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,559
focusing too much on these non salvation issues. Any great

832
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:39,199
military commander, what do they do, They divide and conquer.

833
00:53:39,519 --> 00:53:41,679
The church is more divided now than it's ever been.

834
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,079
And we're falling, and we're falling apart, and we're seeing

835
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,400
sex of what we would call the Christian Church that

836
00:53:47,519 --> 00:53:51,719
I think have totally lost it. And we keep going

837
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,079
down that path, things are only going to get worse.

838
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:59,320
And then that that idea of what is where is

839
00:53:59,360 --> 00:53:59,960
your salvation.

840
00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 2: Are you saved?

841
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,119
Speaker 5: Is this? Are you baptized?

842
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:05,800
Speaker 2: It's it's well, i've not.

843
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,280
Speaker 3: I've not been allowed to be parts of members of

844
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,079
certain churches I've been in because I wasn't baptized their way.

845
00:54:13,519 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 2: Is that a salvation issued? No, it's not. If I'm

846
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:18,920
not baptized the way that you're bad. That's not what

847
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:19,840
it says in the Bible.

848
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 3: It's not by any work that I can do right,

849
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:25,559
it's by it's by grace alone. It's by my faith

850
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:27,840
in Jesus. It's not how I do something. It's not

851
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,679
some ritual I go do. And that's where the church

852
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,360
itself is really struggling. And the separation in the church

853
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,880
is where I truly see Satan really working on us.

854
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:42,360
And uh, I'm sorry, I'll digress. I get too fired.

855
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,400
We we really I need to. And this is the

856
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,440
thing is I believe that we need to separate our

857
00:54:50,679 --> 00:54:53,719
non salvation issues in the church. We need to set

858
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:55,719
those asides. It's okay for us to not agree. Me

859
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,920
and Justin definitely don't agree on a lot of things.

860
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:00,519
Speaker 2: We don't. But guess what, I love that guy and

861
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:03,760
I know he's going to Heaven, right. It doesn't matter.

862
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 3: I can love him and not agree with him, and

863
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:08,239
we don't agree on a lot of things.

864
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 2: But the ultimately the thing is is what we.

865
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 3: Talk about that what does keep the main thing the

866
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,920
main thing, and that's your salvation, that's your belief in Jesus,

867
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:19,320
that's your fact that He died for you.

868
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,039
Speaker 2: Past that these other issues.

869
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:23,679
Speaker 3: Listen, I love diving into scripture. I think you know that,

870
00:55:24,119 --> 00:55:26,840
or I'll say digging. But we go through all this

871
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,000
stuff and that's really what our podcast is all about,

872
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:31,800
is we're taking the next step. We're diving in, taking

873
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,719
it to the next level. We're trying to find things

874
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,719
and Justin pushes me. I mean that guy, he's a

875
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,280
brain and a half and he pushes me to try

876
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:42,119
to learn more and be better and really look into this,

877
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,360
into God's word and try to interpret these things.

878
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:50,039
Speaker 5: But in the end, iron sharpened and iron definitely.

879
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,440
Speaker 3: But if I sit there and at the end of

880
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,239
the day, I misinterpreted something in Revelations, I didn't say

881
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,760
it right, and somebody else in church kint it right,

882
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,599
does it mean we're going to a different place. No,

883
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:06,280
it's that separation, that separation that we are worried so

884
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,039
much about is what's dividing us. It's dividing our church,

885
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:11,000
and it's what we need to stay away from. We

886
00:56:11,039 --> 00:56:13,360
need to could go back and focus on the main thing.

887
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: Justin I don't know, I might have to ask permission

888
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,840
for this, but can I back it up?

889
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I went too long.

890
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 4: It comes on our show and then he steals your line.

891
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I asked permission for you. Steve Well, I

892
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:41,119
just want to say that, you know, amen, Steve to

893
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:45,039
to what you're saying there. But uh, in this context

894
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:48,199
with his book, it is our hope that it would

895
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,639
be a tool for parents not just to buy and

896
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:56,159
give to their kids, but to start a conversation with them,

897
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:59,519
start a journey with them as they kind of start

898
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:04,519
to mature, opening the doors for them to test their faith,

899
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:11,039
but walking together with them, relationally, open to the conversation,

900
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:15,000
recognizing that, as Waverley said earlier, their faith is not

901
00:57:15,079 --> 00:57:18,480
going to get their kids by. Their kids' faith is

902
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,800
what's going to get them by, And it's the testing

903
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,480
of our faith that produces endurance. And as James tells

904
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:31,159
James One tells us, it's it's not all the smooth

905
00:57:31,199 --> 00:57:35,559
sailing that's going to give us endurance or maturity. And

906
00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:38,119
there are no characters in the scriptures that we really

907
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:42,960
know well that their faith is not severely tested, and

908
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,159
so we should expect much the same, yet at the

909
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:49,400
same time be prepared for it. So you know, that

910
00:57:49,639 --> 00:57:53,480
is I think I'm steve to you know, go directly

911
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:57,800
at your your observations there. That's the only way your

912
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,639
kids are going to survive the future, and frankly it's

913
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:02,079
the only way we're going to survive.

914
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,039
Speaker 8: Well, guys, you got any kind of like a website,

915
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:11,280
any kind of place where they can find your books,

916
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,199
your work, your stuff you're putting out, Well.

917
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: The best place to go is Amazon, and you can

918
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:22,159
find searching for Proof and Faith there, And we've just

919
00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:27,480
been thrilled we've been named a couple of their categories,

920
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:31,559
and we're certainly thankful to get to see that underway

921
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:36,559
and see the popular there to the book growing and

922
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,199
so go look it up searching for Proof and Faith

923
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,880
Waverley Coward or a Hasty Coward. So that'd be a

924
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:47,679
great place to go.

925
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 5: Thank you.

926
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 4: What have you guys, got anything you want to say?

927
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,280
In closing before we sign off, I would.

928
00:58:54,079 --> 00:59:01,239
Speaker 6: Just encouraged parents, and you're a teenager who's watching listening

929
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:06,199
to this podcast, don't be afraid to ask the hard questions.

930
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:13,159
If you're a parent who's having a teenagers asking questions, don't.

931
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,679
Speaker 7: Be afraid of that. That's that's a really good.

932
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,599
Speaker 6: It's a really good sign if they're asking you in particular,

933
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,280
but if they're asking the Lord, like, what exactly does

934
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,960
it mean for me to have faith in a good.

935
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 7: God with the world. My school life is so awful,

936
00:59:32,519 --> 00:59:36,440
people are so mean, or I've been bullied on so

937
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:40,480
what is that?

938
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:41,719
Speaker 1: What exactly does that mean?

939
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 6: So I would just and especially in particular with this

940
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:53,920
revised uh chapter that we've we've added a new chapter

941
00:59:54,039 --> 00:59:58,880
in the revised book with the gender and stuff.

942
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 7: I would encourage parents.

943
01:00:03,199 --> 01:00:09,119
Speaker 6: Really up to date, really arm yourself with really arm

944
01:00:09,159 --> 01:00:11,239
yourself with wisdom.

945
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,039
Speaker 7: And I would say arm.

946
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:17,199
Speaker 6: Yourself with peers fellow parents who believe sound doctrine when

947
01:00:17,239 --> 01:00:23,360
it comes to all the questions that's around movement. So

948
01:00:24,119 --> 01:00:27,000
it's good to have an army people praying for your

949
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:31,440
kids and army people who are speaking truth into theirs,

950
01:00:31,719 --> 01:00:33,760
into your child's peers.

951
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,679
Speaker 2: So good inner circle, YEP.

952
01:00:38,119 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: And by the way, the chapter with the longest bibliography

953
01:00:42,039 --> 01:00:45,119
and the most resources is the chapter on the l

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01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:48,280
b G t Q question. So there's lots of good

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01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:52,599
resources there for parents to go to and video you know,

956
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:58,760
videos and podcasts and UH and books to refer to. Well,

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01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,199
I would just end by saying, justin that much again,

958
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,719
I really do appreciate the work that you and Steve

959
01:01:06,599 --> 01:01:10,280
Ben have done together with a dig. Really, what we're

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01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,679
about here in this book is digging deeper, not just

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01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:18,079
allowing things to to fester without addressing them. So in

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01:01:18,119 --> 01:01:20,760
any case, thanks so much forgivness time with you tonight.

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01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 7: Yes, thank you, love it.

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01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,199
Speaker 5: You gotta dig deep and get those roots deeper. You

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01:01:26,199 --> 01:01:27,920
ain't gonna with stay in the storm.

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01:01:29,159 --> 01:01:30,039
Speaker 7: That's exactly right.

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01:01:30,559 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: Pull everybody out there, keep on digging.

968
01:01:33,679 --> 01:01:35,119
Speaker 9: We feel the pot.

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01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 7: Not thrue.

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01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:44,119
Speaker 9: Sorry, just to see through. Slow down, heroes and call

971
01:01:44,559 --> 01:01:51,000
me by name true will beft you find me then

972
01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:58,400
the same reals off the face. Well, files, let us

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01:01:58,519 --> 01:01:58,559
be