WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to our deep dive into rede We've got a

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<v Speaker 1>stack of insights just straight from the source tribe of hackers,

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<v Speaker 1>Red Team. It's packed with advice from top offensive security experts,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're here to break it all down for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're going to be going beyond the usual penetration

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<v Speaker 2>testing today and really getting into how red teams emulate

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<v Speaker 2>real world adversaries. By the end of this you'll have

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<v Speaker 2>a solid grasp on how Red teamers think, the diverse

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<v Speaker 2>skills they bring to the table, and their unique approach

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<v Speaker 2>to problem solving.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like getting a sneak peek into the minds

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<v Speaker 1>of the pros it is. But before we jump into

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<v Speaker 1>all that, let's start with the basics. What exactly is

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<v Speaker 1>red teaming. I feel like the term gets thrown around

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<v Speaker 1>a lot, but is there like a single agreed upon definition.

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<v Speaker 2>It's interesting, isn't it. The lack of one hard and

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<v Speaker 2>fast definition actually reflects how dynamic cybersecurity is. Threats are

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<v Speaker 2>constantly changing, so red teaming has to adapt.

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<v Speaker 1>To makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>But at its core, it's about pushing the boundaries of

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<v Speaker 2>security by simulating real world attacks to uncover vulnerabilities that

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<v Speaker 2>might otherwise go unnoticed.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it's not just about finding those obvious holes.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about anticipating the unexpected, exact, the attacks that organizations

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<v Speaker 1>haven't even considered yet.

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<v Speaker 2>That's it. Chris truntz Are, one of the experts featured

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<v Speaker 2>in the book, puts it perfectly. Red teaming is about

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<v Speaker 2>finding those unknown unknowns rights, not just scanning for the

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<v Speaker 2>known vulnerabilities. And that's what makes it such a valuable

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<v Speaker 2>tool for organizations looking to stay ahead of the curve.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes a lot of sense. So how does someone

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<v Speaker 1>even begin to think like a red teamer? Yeah? Is

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<v Speaker 1>it a skill you can learn or some people just

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<v Speaker 1>naturally wire that way?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a lot of the experts, like Rob Fuller and

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<v Speaker 2>David Kennedy empatasize the importance of understanding the blue team perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Red teamors need to be able to anticipate how defenders

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<v Speaker 2>think in order to out maneuver them. It's almost like

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<v Speaker 2>a game of chess.

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<v Speaker 1>I get it. Yeah, you have to know your opponent's

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<v Speaker 1>moves to stay one step ahead exactly. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And Mike Sharon talks about cultivating that hacker mindset a

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<v Speaker 2>blend of skepticism tenacity and a relentless drive to find

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<v Speaker 2>another way in even when the obvious paths are blocked.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not just about technical skills, right, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>way of thinking, a relentless curiosity to find the weak spots.

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<v Speaker 2>It is you're catching on quickly. Justin Ell sums it

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<v Speaker 2>up well. Good red teamers are creative problem solvers, able

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<v Speaker 2>to adapt when a tax fail and find new paths.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like you need a pretty unique blend of

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<v Speaker 1>technical chops. Yeah, and those softer skills like communication, teamwork.

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<v Speaker 2>You're absolutely right. Several of the experts stress the importance

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<v Speaker 2>of communication, teamwork and ethics. You need the technical skills

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<v Speaker 2>to execute the attacks, but you also need to work

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<v Speaker 2>effectively as a team, communicate your findings clearly, and of course,

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<v Speaker 2>operate ethically.

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<v Speaker 1>Makes sense. Speaking of technical skills, what specific areas do

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<v Speaker 1>red teamers need to be proficient in? Oh, definitely, I

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<v Speaker 1>imagine it's a pretty extensive list.

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<v Speaker 2>Rob Fuller gives a pretty comprehensive overview in the book,

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<v Speaker 2>and it really is quite a range. Routing, switching, active directory, wireless,

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<v Speaker 2>physical security, wow IoT, web applications, cloud environments. That's a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like every aspect of it is fair game.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's a lot to master. Yeah, it really highlights

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<v Speaker 1>the sheer complexity of cybersecurity these days, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>It absolutely does, And bo Bullock makes a good point

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<v Speaker 2>that many Red teamers actually specialize in certain areas, which

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<v Speaker 2>makes them even more valuable assets to a team. So

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<v Speaker 2>you might have someone who's an expert in exploiting active

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<v Speaker 2>directory while another focuses on social engineering or physical security breaches.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so let's say someone is intrigued by all this

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<v Speaker 1>and wants to get into red teaming. What advice did

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<v Speaker 1>these experts have for aspiring Red teamers.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a pretty consistent theme that comes up again

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<v Speaker 2>and again. Hands on experience is crucial. So things like

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<v Speaker 2>building your own lab, participating in bug bounty programs, and

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<v Speaker 2>getting involved in Capture the Flag CTF competitions are all

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<v Speaker 2>highly recommended.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like anything else, you can't just read about

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<v Speaker 1>it again, you have to roll up your sleeves and

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<v Speaker 1>actually do it. You got it.

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<v Speaker 2>And several of the experts emphasize the power of networking,

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<v Speaker 2>attending conferences, going to meetups, connecting with people in the field,

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<v Speaker 2>building relationships and learning from others is so valuable, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in a fast paced field like cybersecurity.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes total sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Learning from people who are actually out there doing the work.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I can definitely see the value in that.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely Yeah. And Jared Fulkens makes a really interesting point

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<v Speaker 1>about the value of real world experience, even if it's

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<v Speaker 1>not directly related to red teaming. He talks about how

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<v Speaker 1>working on blue teams, doing system administration or even programming,

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<v Speaker 1>can give you a deeper understanding of how systems work

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<v Speaker 1>and how they can be exploited.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's not just about being a hacker, it's about

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<v Speaker 2>having a well rounded foundation in it, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, let's shift gears a bit and talk about

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<v Speaker 1>red team reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Here's where it gets interesting, because it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>about finding the vulnerabilities, it's about communicating them effectively.

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<v Speaker 1>You're absolutely right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The book really stresses that reports need to be actionable

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<v Speaker 1>and provide context for the client. It's not about showing

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<v Speaker 1>off your skills. It's about helping the organization improve its

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<v Speaker 1>security posture. So it's about painting a clear picture it

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<v Speaker 1>is of the vulnerabilities and what the organization can do

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<v Speaker 1>to address them. I imagine that requires a certain level

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<v Speaker 1>of storytelling, right it does. You can't just throw a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of technical jargon at them and expect them to understand.

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<v Speaker 2>Patrick Sassel actually compares Red Team reporting to storytelling interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, you need to use things like attack maps

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<v Speaker 2>and clear descriptions to explain the attack path, almost like

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<v Speaker 2>you're taking the client on a journey through the breach.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that analogy. It makes the findings come alive

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<v Speaker 1>and helps the client understand the real world impact.

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<v Speaker 2>Of those vulnerabilities.

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<v Speaker 1>And Jared Hate emphasizes the importance of collaborating with the

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<v Speaker 1>Blue Team. It's about working together to get a complete

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<v Speaker 1>picture of the organization's security posture and develop a shared

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<v Speaker 1>understanding of the risks.

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<v Speaker 2>That makes a lot of sense.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not about Red Team versus Blue Team. It's about

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<v Speaker 1>both teams working together achieve a common goal, which is

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<v Speaker 1>improving the organization's security.

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<v Speaker 2>Right now, speaking of teamwork and collaborations, you're ready for

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<v Speaker 2>some stories from the field.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, I'm always up for a good story laid

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<v Speaker 1>on me well. Christopher Campbell shared a particularly memorable one.

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<v Speaker 1>He was on an engagement and accidentally triggered an alert

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<v Speaker 1>during a meeting with the entire IA section.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, what happened?

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<v Speaker 1>He was using compromised credentials and the target machine was

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<v Speaker 1>actually being used to project slides for the meeting. Oh wow,

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<v Speaker 1>So the IA team immediately saw his IP address. Oh

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<v Speaker 1>and the account he was using.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's got to be awkward. Yeah, talk about being

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<v Speaker 2>caught red handed.

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<v Speaker 1>How do he react? Well, in a moment of quick thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>he decided to maintain character and pretend he was supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be there.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. He even told the IA team to

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<v Speaker 2>go get their boss.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Talk about thinking on your feet. No right, did

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<v Speaker 1>they buy it?

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<v Speaker 2>Not first? Okay, but he managed to stall them long

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<v Speaker 2>enough to escape the conference room.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a classic Red Team remove right. Always be prepared

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<v Speaker 1>for the unexpected, always. But these Bursted stories, while entertaining,

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<v Speaker 1>also raise some important questions about the ethical considerations that

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<v Speaker 1>Red teamers face. What happens when they find something truly disturbing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a tricky situation, for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>A few of the experts mentioned finding things like evidence

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<v Speaker 2>of illegal activities. Oh wow, during their engagements.

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<v Speaker 1>That must be a tough position to be in, it is.

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<v Speaker 1>What's the protocol in those situations.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it really depends on the rules of engagement okay

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<v Speaker 2>for that specific project, Yeah, and the client's policies. But

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<v Speaker 2>it highlights the importance of having those conversations up front

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<v Speaker 2>and making sure everyone is on the same page about

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<v Speaker 2>how to handle sensitive discoveries.

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<v Speaker 1>It really brings to light the human side of red peeming,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>It does.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not just about tech nical skills. It's about navigating

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<v Speaker 1>complex situations and making judgment calls.

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Nickerson really drives this point home in the book.

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<v Speaker 2>He says Red teamers are not just robots. They are

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<v Speaker 2>passionate about security and making a difference.

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<v Speaker 1>And that passion is often what makes them so effective. Absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>they're not just going through the motions. They genuinely care

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<v Speaker 1>about improving security.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and that shared passion often leads to a strong

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<v Speaker 2>sense of Camarrie mutual respect between the Red and Blue teams.

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<v Speaker 2>Even though they're essentially on opposite sides, they understand that

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<v Speaker 2>they're both working towards the same goal and the more

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<v Speaker 2>secure world.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we've talked about the skills, the mindset, the ethics,

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<v Speaker 1>even some of the funny mishaps that can happen in

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<v Speaker 1>the field, But what are some of the qualities that

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<v Speaker 1>make a truly exceptional red teamer stand out?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? Jared Hate talks about how the best Red teamers

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<v Speaker 2>are never satisfied even when they achieve their objective. They're

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<v Speaker 2>constantly analyzing, looking for ways to improve, thinking about how

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<v Speaker 2>the blue team could have detected them. Okay, they're essentially

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<v Speaker 2>red teaming themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's some next level dedication. Always striving for improvement.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and over time they develop an incredible intuition. Patrick

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<v Speaker 2>Fasol describes it as being able to look at a

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<v Speaker 2>target and almost instantly get a sense of its security

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<v Speaker 2>and maturity.

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<v Speaker 1>That's amazing, Like they've developed a sixth sense for spotting vulnerabilities.

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<v Speaker 2>It is.

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<v Speaker 1>But they're not just relying on gut feeling right now. No,

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<v Speaker 1>they're still doing their due diligence when it comes to

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<v Speaker 1>planning and research.

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<v Speaker 2>They still spend a lot of time gathering information and

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<v Speaker 2>planning their attacks. That reconnaissance phase is crucial because the

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<v Speaker 2>more you know about the target, the more efficient and

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<v Speaker 2>effective your attack will be.

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<v Speaker 1>Makes sense. Knowledge is power, as they say.

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<v Speaker 2>And here's another interesting observ from the book, The Best

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<v Speaker 2>Red teamers are often indistinguishable from the best Blue teamers.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, really, but aren't they on opposite sides in a sense? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>how does that work?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? The top practitioners in both fields have such a

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<v Speaker 2>deep understanding of security that they can easily switch perspectives.

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<v Speaker 2>They understand the attack vectors, the defense mechanisms, and the

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<v Speaker 2>thought processes on both sides.

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<v Speaker 1>That's incredible. So they could potentially infiltrate a system pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much and defend it with equal skill.

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<v Speaker 2>They know the game inside and out. Wow, and that

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<v Speaker 2>really reinforces the importance of collaboration. Red and Blue teams

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<v Speaker 2>need to work together, share their knowledge, and learn from

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<v Speaker 2>each other to create a truly robust security posture.

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<v Speaker 1>Iron sharpens iron.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, and sometimes that collaboration leads to some pretty hilarious moment.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm all airs, tell me another story.

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<v Speaker 2>Uns are shared one about a time he was on

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<v Speaker 2>an engagement and accidentally compromised a system. It was broadcasting

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<v Speaker 2>a weather report on TVs throughout the entire organization.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, everyone must have seen him hacking.

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<v Speaker 2>Am Amazingly, no one noticed for almost twenty four hours.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>The point of contact only realized something was wrong when

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<v Speaker 2>the weather image disappeared from the TVs.

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<v Speaker 1>That's hilarious. It just goes to show that even the

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<v Speaker 1>most sophisticated security systems can have unexpected blind spots. And

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<v Speaker 1>it also highlights the human element of cybersecurity. People can

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<v Speaker 1>be the weakest link, but they can also be the

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<v Speaker 1>strongest asset. That's true. So what's the takeaway here for organizations?

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<v Speaker 1>How can they take all these insights from these red

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<v Speaker 1>teaming experts and apply them to their own security practices.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think the biggest takeaway is.

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<v Speaker 1>That organizations need to invest in both technology and people.

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<v Speaker 1>Having strong security controls is important, but they're useless without

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<v Speaker 1>a skilled team to manage them and a culture that

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<v Speaker 1>embraces a security first mindset.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's about having the right tools and the right

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<v Speaker 2>people and creating an environment where security is everyone's responsibility.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Organizations need to encourage that red team mindset, that

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<v Speaker 1>culture of curiosity, skepticism, yeah, and continuous improvement. Don't just

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<v Speaker 1>accept the status quo. Constantly question, test and challenge your assumption.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. Always be learning, always be adapting exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And finally foster that collaboration between red and blue teams.

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<v Speaker 1>Break down the silos, encourage information sharing and work together

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<v Speaker 1>to create a more secure environment.

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<v Speaker 2>This deep dove has been so insightful. H I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like I have a whole new understanding of the world

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<v Speaker 2>of red teaming and.

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<v Speaker 1>How valuable it is for organizations. It is, But what

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<v Speaker 1>about the future of red teaming? Where do things go

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<v Speaker 1>from here? The threat landscape is constantly evolving, it is,

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<v Speaker 1>so I imagine red teaming has to evolve as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, that's a great question.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Several experts in the book shared their thoughts the future

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<v Speaker 2>of red teaming, and one theme that came up repeatedly

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<v Speaker 2>was the rise of automation and AI.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's interesting. How do you think those technologies are

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<v Speaker 1>going to impact red teaming?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, on the one hand, okay, they have the potential

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<v Speaker 2>to make red teamors jobs a lot easier. Automated tools

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<v Speaker 2>can help with tasks like reconnaissance and vulnerability scanning, freeing

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<v Speaker 2>up red teamers to focus on more strategic, creative aspects

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<v Speaker 2>of the attack.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like having a digital assistant to take care

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<v Speaker 1>of some of the grunt work exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>On the flip side, the increasing adoption of AI and

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<v Speaker 2>automation by security teams also presents new challenges for Red teamers.

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<v Speaker 1>How So, you'd think having more automation would make things

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<v Speaker 1>easier for attackers too.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Not necessarily. As defenders start using more sophisticated AI

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<v Speaker 2>powered security tools, attackers will need to develop new techniques

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<v Speaker 2>to bypass them. It's an ongoing arms.

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<v Speaker 1>Race, so Red teamers will need to constantly adapt, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>learn new skills, and develop new tactics to stay ahead

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<v Speaker 1>of the game.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and that's where the human element becomes even more important.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is that? Wouldn't you think AI would eventually make

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<v Speaker 1>human Red teamers obsolete?

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<v Speaker 2>Not quite. There are certain things that AI and automation

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<v Speaker 2>simply can't replicate, things like creativity, intuition, critical thinking, and

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<v Speaker 2>the ability to adapt to unforeseen circumstances.

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<v Speaker 1>It's that uniquely human ability to think outside the box, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and come up with creative solutions that AI can't quite

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<v Speaker 1>grasp yet exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So, I think the future of Red teaming will involve

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<v Speaker 2>a blend of human expertise and technological advancements. It's about

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<v Speaker 2>finding the right balance between automation and human ingenuity.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes sense. It's about leveraging technology to enhance human

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<v Speaker 1>capabilities not replace them.

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<v Speaker 2>Entirely, and as the threat landscape becomes even more complex

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<v Speaker 2>and sophisticated, red teamers will play an increasingly important role

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<v Speaker 2>in helping organizations stay ahead of the curve.

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<v Speaker 1>I completely agree they're the unsung heroes of cybersecurity. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>constantly pushing the boundaries, challenging the status quo, and helping

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<v Speaker 1>organizations build more resilient defenses.

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<v Speaker 2>They are, indeed, and this deep dive, while thorough, has

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<v Speaker 2>really just scratched the surface of the world of red teaming.

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<v Speaker 2>There's so much more to explore, so many fascinating stories

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<v Speaker 2>to tell, and so many brilliant minds working in this field.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm already looking forward to our next deep dive in

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<v Speaker 1>the world of cybersecurity.

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<v Speaker 2>They do.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we wrap up completely, let's leave our listeners

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<v Speaker 1>with a final thought, something to ponder as they continue

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<v Speaker 1>their own explorations in the world of cybersecurity. What if

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<v Speaker 1>we took everything we've learned about red teaming and applied

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<v Speaker 1>it to our own lives, kind of like a personal

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<v Speaker 1>security audit.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that idea red team in your life. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a really interesting concept. Think about it. What are your

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<v Speaker 2>personal vulnerabilities? What are the threats you face on a

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<v Speaker 2>daily basis, and what steps can you take to strengthen

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<v Speaker 2>your own security posture.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack this personal vulnerabilities. Well, I'll admit yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm probably guilty of oversharing on social media, sometimes not

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<v Speaker 1>giving away any state secrets or anything, probably more than

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<v Speaker 1>I should.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really common one, and it's a perfect example

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<v Speaker 2>of how those red teaming principles can apply to everyday life. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>put on your attacker hat for a second. Okay, what

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<v Speaker 2>kind of information could someone use against you?

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<v Speaker 1>My social media posts could give away my location, routine,

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<v Speaker 1>my interests, all valuable intel for someone looking.

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<v Speaker 2>To take advantage exactly, So how could you mitigate that risk?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, for starters, I could be more mindful about what

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<v Speaker 1>I post, I could tweak my privacy settings, be careful

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<v Speaker 1>about tagging my location, and definitely avoid posting sensitive information.

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<v Speaker 2>Those are all great steps, and it's not just about

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<v Speaker 2>online security either. Think about your physical security as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Good point, I should probably be more diligent about locking

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<v Speaker 1>my doors and windows, especially when I'm not home.

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<v Speaker 2>And what about your devices? Do you have strong passwords?

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<v Speaker 2>Do you use two factor authentication? These are all basic

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<v Speaker 2>security hygiene practices that can make a big difference.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're making me really, I have some work to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely need to step up my personal security game.

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<v Speaker 2>We all do. It's an ongoing process, just like red

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<v Speaker 2>teaming for organizations. It's about being proactive, anticipate threats and

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<v Speaker 2>taking steps to mitigate those risks.

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<v Speaker 1>So the key takeaway here, yeah, is to apply those

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<v Speaker 1>same principles of red teaming to our own lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Think like an attacker, identify your vulnerabilities and strengthen your defenses.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely, take control of your own security and protect yourself

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<v Speaker 2>from potential harm.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that red team in your life. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a brilliant concept, it is, and something we can all

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<v Speaker 1>benefit from.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. It's all about empowering yourself with knowledge, right and

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<v Speaker 2>taking those proactive steps to stay safe.

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<v Speaker 1>This deep dive has been incredible. It has I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like I've gained a whole new perspective on cybersecurity. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>both professionally and personally.

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<v Speaker 2>Me too. Yeah, it's been fascinating exploring the world of

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<v Speaker 2>red teaming, yeah, and all its intricacies.

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<v Speaker 1>So to our listeners, we encourage you to keep exploring,

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<v Speaker 1>keep learning, and keep red teaming your way to a

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<v Speaker 1>more secure future.

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<v Speaker 2>And remember security is not a destination, it's a journey.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay stay informed, and stay ahead of the game.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us for this deep dive into the

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<v Speaker 1>world of red teaming.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been fun.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll see you next time. See you for another fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>exploration of the world of cybersecurity.