Speaker 1: Welcome, dear listener, and thanks for joining us. And I'm Stephen, and.
Speaker 2: This is a podcast all about the weird and wonderful
Speaker 2: world of the dark comedy anthology series Inside number nine.
Speaker 1: On each episode, we'll be diving into another one of
Speaker 1: Steve Pemberton and Reese Shearsmith's twisted tales, putting it under
Speaker 1: a lens and examining it within an inch of its life.
Speaker 2: So make yourself comfortable, grab a cup of tea, and
Speaker 2: join us for the ninth degree.
Speaker 1: Hello, No, let me say that again. That was really camp.
Speaker 1: I'm trying a sort of injective bit of energy and then.
Speaker 2: I'm just like hello, speaking yes exactly.
Speaker 1: I can go on as an outtake, hello.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I was gonna say ticking along, but I said
Speaker 1: it every week.
Speaker 2: We have such thrilling lives, don't I know? What have
Speaker 2: you been at to? Anything exciting?
Speaker 1: Took my partner to the theater at the weekend for
Speaker 1: his birthday present. Went to see Waitress, Oh Nice, one
Speaker 1: of his top favorite musicals and it also starred his
Speaker 1: one of his favorite performers, carry Oute Fletcher.
Speaker 2: I've heard of her, Yes, I don't know who she is,
Speaker 2: but her.
Speaker 1: She is Tom Fletcher of mcflyer's sister.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I didn't, Yes, I remember.
Speaker 1: Now Yeah, and yeah, he absolutely like worships her for
Speaker 1: some reason. I mean she was very good, good.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know anything about it. I assume
Speaker 2: it's about a waitress, but it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's based on a film actually, as
Speaker 1: a lot of musicals are these days. But is it's
Speaker 1: set in America and a diner and this waitress who's
Speaker 1: in an abusive marriage and she's got no money, and
Speaker 1: then she finds out she's pregnant, and it's like she
Speaker 1: wants to sort of find a way to sort of
Speaker 1: escape this horrible life for the baby and for her
Speaker 1: and everything. So sounds quite miserable when you get that.
Speaker 1: But there, it's a lovely show.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're enjoying the very sort of.
Speaker 1: Country vibes to it, which he loves as well. So good,
Speaker 1: how about you.
Speaker 2: No, not a lot of hair, No nothing exciting, No
Speaker 2: games like look forward to this weekends? That would be fun. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's good, but nothing nothing at the moment.
Speaker 1: Shall we reveal last week's hair?
Speaker 2: Indeed, it was one of yours? Yes, did a little dumpling,
Speaker 2: but no, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a good time, just you know, coming in
Speaker 1: and sitting on the carpet singing, Hey diddle diddle dumplings
Speaker 1: and gravy in the lunch hole.
Speaker 2: Weldne thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm really curious with these sort of much slightly more
Speaker 1: obscure ones if they become easier to get or harder
Speaker 1: to get.
Speaker 2: Yeah, message in, let us know how you find that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's no. I did get a few messages about
Speaker 1: the Bernie Clifton's dressing room one. Oh good, someone said,
Speaker 1: oh fiendishly audacious hair this week or something like that.
Speaker 2: It was a really good one.
Speaker 1: But yes, we're here this week for Well You tell.
Speaker 2: Us, Series seven, Episode three, nine Lives Cat hard as nails.
Speaker 2: Detective Inspector Katrina, a divorce and single mum, is determined
Speaker 2: to crack the case of a missing boy. But there's
Speaker 2: also her drinking, her love life, and her in a
Speaker 2: demon's She doesn't want help, but it turns up anyway.
Speaker 1: That sums up the whole episode and leaves nothing out.
Speaker 2: Doesn't it. Just yeah, yeah, in it's your thoughts.
Speaker 1: I think my thoughts are quite complicated.
Speaker 2: Actually, right, like, yeah, same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I appreciate it and I think it's clever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but do I enjoy it is another question.
Speaker 2: I'm sort of the same. I'm not really sure that
Speaker 2: she's going to go today.
Speaker 1: Okay, we shall see.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like it for what it's doing, and it's
Speaker 2: how different it is. Well, I think it's well executed.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but I get very confused, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to sound thick, but yeah, oh no, I.
Speaker 1: Don't think so. I think, you know, sometimes we sort
Speaker 1: of dance about show, we talk about the twist or not,
Speaker 1: but I think we'll just sort of be yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I think for me, I think what I find
Speaker 1: difficult about it is because of the nature of it
Speaker 1: that you've got a story within a story within a
Speaker 1: story of you know, these layers of characters and fakeness.
Speaker 1: Each layer has to be a little bit more two
Speaker 1: dimensional to make it work with the structure. Yes, so
Speaker 1: when especially when you start with Katrina and it's like
Speaker 1: she's the innermost Russian doll of this these fictional characters,
Speaker 1: She's so two dimensions. And I know that's the whole point.
Speaker 1: I know they make her two dimensional and cliched, but
Speaker 1: I just it just as you're watching it, it's very
Speaker 1: hard to connect and sort of care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially when it's only one character that's that bottom level. Yeah,
Speaker 2: someone that was a bit new to this and didn't
Speaker 2: real No, this is your first ever episode, you might
Speaker 2: go yes, well she said, why if they hired her?
Speaker 1: She's awful exactly, And obviously when you get to the end,
Speaker 1: you kind of look back and you think, oh, that
Speaker 1: makes sense and that's quite clever. Yeah, but I just think, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I said, it's hard. It's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: watch and not particularly enjoyable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sophie that plays Katrina. They've been trying to get
Speaker 2: hers since like series three or something, and she's just
Speaker 2: too busy, Like, yeah, couldn't get her in. And then
Speaker 2: Steve apparently apologized to her, being like, we're really sorry
Speaker 2: that we finally got you in to do this and
Speaker 2: you've got such a cliche character, and she's like, I've
Speaker 2: played worse, don't worry.
Speaker 1: But also she's quite I think she's quite good casting
Speaker 1: because she seems like the sort of actress that you
Speaker 1: would get to play like a that sort of detective
Speaker 1: character in an ITV drama or something.
Speaker 2: I can totally see it. Yeah, yeah, sort of grizzled,
Speaker 2: struggling with Drake goalie sorts of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, on first few week that's what I
Speaker 1: guess we think we're watching and is some sort of
Speaker 1: drama about this disgraced detective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so ITV And that's not in a good way.
Speaker 1: No, I was gonna say, is that a compliment or not? No?
Speaker 2: No. And the fact that later they're pitching to ITV
Speaker 2: for the filming rights of.
Speaker 1: It, well, I feel like it tv is always uses
Speaker 1: a bit of a punchline on BBC shows, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: vice versa.
Speaker 2: Probably probably.
Speaker 1: I always remember that bit in Doctor Whom Blink when
Speaker 1: they say about Sparrow and Nightingale the game ITV is.
Speaker 1: I find it curious that she puts Coca pops in
Speaker 1: the cat bowl. M m, yes, she just doesn't care.
Speaker 2: She doesn't care. Plus, I wonder if it's a nod
Speaker 2: to the author has researched her that little that he
Speaker 2: doesn't he's not even research the fact that cats are
Speaker 2: allergic to chocolate and this would kill the cat. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that was intentional or whether it's.
Speaker 1: Just is that true? I thought that was just dogs.
Speaker 2: No, it's cats and dogs apparently, is it.
Speaker 1: Well, I've had cats on my life, but I've never
Speaker 1: fed them chocolates, so I haven't had to worry about it.
Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I don't know if
Speaker 2: there is actually any chocolate in Coca pops, but.
Speaker 1: Something chocolate is adjacent, something pretending to be chocolate. Yeah. Also,
Speaker 1: obviously it's just the thing of like her kitchen only
Speaker 1: literally has cocoa pops and vodka in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that has to make do. Yeah, that would be awful.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that being nice.
Speaker 1: No, but it is. It is that kind of cliche,
Speaker 1: isn't it of Like, yeah, it's like a sad, pathetic
Speaker 1: life that she's sitting there eating Coca Pops in vodka.
Speaker 2: At least get Bailey's.
Speaker 1: And then I do quite like how so Steve appears,
Speaker 1: and he appears like quite a lot throughout these first scenes,
Speaker 1: just sort of talking to her, And I like the
Speaker 1: way that he's introduced, like we're not told who he
Speaker 1: is and we just have.
Speaker 2: To infer and he's just there.
Speaker 1: You obviously assume he's like a colleague mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the fact that he just appears and that
Speaker 2: no one questions it as well, Yeah exactly is a
Speaker 2: bit unnerving. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: I suppose Yeah, on first viewing, one of the things
Speaker 1: you might be wondering is is this one of those
Speaker 1: stories maybe a bit like Twelve Days of Christine where yeah,
Speaker 1: you're sort of you're dipping in and out and like
Speaker 1: she's having blackouts and you don't really know like you're
Speaker 1: seeing it from her perspective, but is she missing huge
Speaker 1: chunks when he says about, oh, you know, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen you for months, yeah, and she says it was
Speaker 1: only the other day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're playing on the fact that you're
Speaker 2: connected to Twelve Days of Christine. Yeah, and assume there's
Speaker 2: some there's something a bit more realistic going on, not
Speaker 2: so abstract. Yeah, And the fact that he never it's
Speaker 2: just like he's interrogating her the whole time, Like he
Speaker 2: doesn't actually say anything himself, Like everything is just him bouncing.
Speaker 1: Off with about her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't add anything new to the conversation. It's
Speaker 2: all what she has to say, saying he then responds
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 1: So it is it is a nice one for a
Speaker 1: rewatch in that way, when you know from the beginning,
Speaker 1: he's the author, well supposedly within this area, he's the
Speaker 1: author and the questions he's asking because you know, I
Speaker 1: can sort of see that, you know, writers having almost
Speaker 1: a dialogue with their own characters.
Speaker 2: What would you say right now? Kind of yeah, when
Speaker 2: you've got the writer's block and you don't know what
Speaker 2: to say next, you can imagine them imagining the conversation,
Speaker 2: which is essentially what's happening here.
Speaker 1: We've got Kidney Spears and David Mawi.
Speaker 2: I love a good pun. I like them. I like
Speaker 2: them a bit of a mouthful. But well, yeah, so
Speaker 2: we just get yet more just more stock cliche. It's
Speaker 2: such a basic story that she's living through here, of
Speaker 2: missing child, blah blah blah blah blah, like the lack
Speaker 2: of imagination. It's crazy, it's very basic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've also written down just like almost every line
Speaker 1: she says, it's a cliche.
Speaker 2: M hm, none of it's original. No, even to the point
Speaker 2: where she quotes prime she says the word prime suspect.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And then on a second watch, she realized,
Speaker 2: but Ezra's I'd rather be helping with our inquiries, like
Speaker 2: I'd rather use a better word than that, because yes.
Speaker 1: To be fair, like, you know, an actress of Sophie's
Speaker 1: caliber and then giving her this kind of part. But
Speaker 1: she does do it very well, like the.
Speaker 2: Kind of oh yeah, like.
Speaker 1: We said, all the cliched lines and stuff, like she
Speaker 1: she gives them conviction, but also with a slight sense
Speaker 1: of this is so crap.
Speaker 2: With a lesser actor, you, yeah, it wouldn't have been
Speaker 2: watchable exactly, Yeah, it would have been so cringey to
Speaker 2: sit through this, but yeah, she sells it. This is
Speaker 2: my favorite section of it when it's when it's cat
Speaker 2: Oh is it like so like I love all the
Speaker 2: little lines that they have, so like when she says
Speaker 2: something about the suspects or whatever and Ezra says, I'm
Speaker 2: still in the process of fleshing out their stories. Oh
Speaker 2: i'd notice that.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that it works both ways of yeah, just all
Speaker 2: these little bits when you don't quite know what's going
Speaker 2: on and it's a little bit confusing, and well, it's.
Speaker 1: A good choice having it be a police thing because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of crossover there of like you know,
Speaker 1: researching people and creating characters, the kind of a little crossover.
Speaker 2: Because ultimately until a good chunk of police work is
Speaker 2: like imagining a story and imagining what someone might have
Speaker 2: been doing and based on what you know about it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, so.
Speaker 1: She's also got a daughter, m h yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: I like how she tells her the story about keeping
Speaker 1: her teeth, which then comes up again later. And it's
Speaker 1: like that thing of write what you know and like
Speaker 1: putting your own personal experiences in yeah and stuff.
Speaker 2: I saw a good point someone put online about this
Speaker 2: that you don't really notice at the time. But so
Speaker 2: the daughter, how old you reckon? The daughter would have been? Oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know, she's what sort of like six ish?
Speaker 1: I suppose, yeah, because.
Speaker 2: The way she says it, remember when you lost your
Speaker 2: teeth and blah blah blah. Oh, I see she's kid,
Speaker 2: wouldn't would barely have even started losing teeth this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a very good one. Just things that
Speaker 1: don't make sense, but.
Speaker 2: Doesn't You don't really notice it on the first one.
Speaker 2: I don't twig it now, but it's just another thing
Speaker 2: that potentially might make you feel a.
Speaker 1: Bit yeah weird because when she's talking about the teeth,
Speaker 1: she's in bed, so you can't really see how big
Speaker 1: she is then later you see her walking about, which
Speaker 1: is very creepy. Yeah, there's this like scary moment where
Speaker 1: there's something in the wardrobe.
Speaker 2: I don't get this, but I don't get that. I
Speaker 2: don't know what that's.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to fit.
Speaker 2: No, it's one of those things that they just put
Speaker 2: in to throw you off, yes, and to make it creepy,
Speaker 2: but that doesn't actually have a resolution later that makes
Speaker 2: it make sense. No, it's a bit like the eggs
Speaker 2: in Twelve Days of Christine, but they have a purpose.
Speaker 1: I suppose Ezra was just maybe trying an idea out.
Speaker 2: We'll say there was a twig banging at his window
Speaker 2: or something while he was asleep, and he wrote into
Speaker 2: his story.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but so yeah, we get this kind
Speaker 1: of repeating thing of her waking up suddenly, you know,
Speaker 1: sitting up, and this happens again now, and I feel
Speaker 1: it's a bit groundhog Day, like yeah, oh, here we
Speaker 1: go again, like resetting, and it's so the same exactly
Speaker 1: like I think we're supposed to probably think it's a
Speaker 1: new day, but it almost feels like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a second, this is another draft. Now he's trying it again.
Speaker 1: Like with differences.
Speaker 2: He's taken out of the drawer and having another bash it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: see if he can make it better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you can imagine him being like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: I quite like the waking up from a nightmare thing.
Speaker 1: I'll keep that, yeah, but then we'll do it a
Speaker 1: bit different.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The evidence is all gone from.
Speaker 2: The wall because he's realized maybe even that's too cliched.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, he's not been thinking about this project basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I.
Speaker 1: Think her waking up maybe is the idea waking up
Speaker 1: in his head again of you know, I wonder if
Speaker 1: I could do something with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I took it that it was opening the drawer
Speaker 2: up again and like, yeah, when he opens the drawer,
Speaker 2: she wakes back up again. Can I say? Yeah. The
Speaker 2: thing that really struck me on this and they talk
Speaker 2: about it in the podcast, So I was validated when
Speaker 2: when they said, how, how like the Legal Gentleman film
Speaker 2: it is oh yes, so yeah, so they said that
Speaker 2: the film and this episode kind of come from the
Speaker 2: same sort of origin point of what if the writers
Speaker 2: met their characters?
Speaker 1: Yes, and I really love that idea, yeah, in general, and.
Speaker 2: How it was kind of quite original at the time,
Speaker 2: back at League of Gentlemen Times anyway. Yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 2: Steve said, imagine if he came back to the office
Speaker 2: and said he'd just seen Pauline and Budgeons, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: like it looked like Pauline, No, it was Pauline, Like
Speaker 2: what would happen? Yes, and yeah, so they decided to
Speaker 2: us that off again and use that here, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: thought it might work quite well.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's a bit of a tangent, but
Speaker 1: that was genius in that film because like you've got
Speaker 1: the extra layer there of obviously them being the actors
Speaker 1: as well as the writers that portray them. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they portray multiple characters, and so it's it's really bizarre
Speaker 1: having this sort of character that exists and does look
Speaker 1: like the writer and the performer in a way that
Speaker 1: is their own distinct person.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's very trippy and.
Speaker 2: The characters finding out, like her Lip for example, that
Speaker 2: his whole reason for being is the butt of a
Speaker 2: joke exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's very metai and very very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they said that they did consider doing that.
Speaker 2: They just thought it would be funny to add another
Speaker 2: layer on and have it that Matilda wakes.
Speaker 1: Up and step Yeah. I was thinking that they should
Speaker 1: have done it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would have worked really well. Of
Speaker 2: like a knock on the door or something and Reese
Speaker 2: is there and you pull back and it's Steve, yeah,
Speaker 2: answering the door and all of these characters. I mean,
Speaker 2: you could, even if you want, have had like throwing
Speaker 2: tubs and Edward or random other characters just running around
Speaker 2: this house. You could have actually, yeah, and imagining that
Speaker 2: they live with these characters full time. Yeah, that would
Speaker 2: have been interesting just in the last sort of thirty seconds,
Speaker 2: not even thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: But I definitely do think a final shot, at least
Speaker 1: of just recently being the final kind of layer of
Speaker 1: the cake, Yeah, would have been cool because that's kind
Speaker 1: of I guess that's kind of implied anyway.
Speaker 2: In a way. Yeah, Yeah, I think they should have
Speaker 2: done that. Personally. Yeah, I can see why people might
Speaker 2: say it's a bit cheesier or.
Speaker 1: It's jumping the shark a little bit. Yeah, but no,
Speaker 1: I feel like it would have been a nice touch.
Speaker 2: But I agree. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So we're then introduced to Reese's character barnabas Bull Barnabas Ball.
Speaker 1: So that's just trying to.
Speaker 2: Say yeah, I don't know how what it is about
Speaker 2: certain names that do just sound made up. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: that just it just sounds like a character. It doesn't.
Speaker 2: No one has that name.
Speaker 1: It does.
Speaker 2: There's no reason why they couldn't.
Speaker 1: But exactly some do just sound a bit over like
Speaker 1: thought about.
Speaker 2: I suppose the alliteration always helps.
Speaker 1: But yeah, So he's introduced as a colleague that they
Speaker 1: had supposedly she has a love hate relationship with. Yeah,
Speaker 1: although she doesn't really know who he is. He's literally
Speaker 1: just been introduced. So yeah, there's lots lots of hints
Speaker 1: that things aren't what they seem.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you might not have worked out why, but
Speaker 2: you know something weird is going on. Yeah. Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: seven series into this thing. We know there's something weird
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: So he is written as a kind of well, they
Speaker 1: call him a bit spectrumy mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Thoughts on this. I don't know whether this is acceptable,
Speaker 2: whether it's.
Speaker 1: What well, I think you can get They can get
Speaker 1: away with it because it's a story within a story
Speaker 1: within a story, So it's like that type of it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's because when you realize that Ezra isn't even real,
Speaker 1: he's written autistic stereotype as a character because that's something
Speaker 1: people do, but it's it's exaggerated to the nth degree
Speaker 1: or the ninth degree. Even so, yeah, I do find
Speaker 1: it a bit. The thing I don't like is when
Speaker 1: she calls it unspecified mental illness because he says spectromy
Speaker 1: so we're obviously talking about autism, which is not a
Speaker 1: mental illness.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 1: So that was the one thing I took issue with
Speaker 1: was her saying mental illness. But I know what she
Speaker 1: means about unspecified. It's like you get a lot of characters,
Speaker 1: like you know, Sheldon Big Bang Theory.
Speaker 2: Where they just pick the bits they want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that he is.
Speaker 2: He is very funny.
Speaker 1: I love the bit when she says I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think and he says, well, strictly speaking or thinking is subconscious.
Speaker 1: You can't try to think. And that reminded me of
Speaker 1: someone I think who him superedantic like that.
Speaker 2: I don't know who you're talking about. Let's move on quickly.
Speaker 1: I also liked when he left the room and Zra
Speaker 1: when he's quite a care it's like, well he's quite
Speaker 1: a character, but he's also a character.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because that's something people say.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 2: They said in the podcast that Barnabas is based on
Speaker 2: Sargana Wren. Have you ever watched The Bridge? No?
Speaker 1: Oh, is that the Scandinavian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very good, very good, Okay, but yeah, she
Speaker 2: is that stock in inverted columns spectrum type of character, okay,
Speaker 2: of unspecified whatever. I think she was one of the
Speaker 2: first like main like big, big what like that type
Speaker 2: of character. I know. Obviously Sherlock Holmes you can argue
Speaker 2: as well, but yeah, I think he was the one.
Speaker 2: She was one of the ones. The modern day ones
Speaker 2: ye have made it famous and then they started doing
Speaker 2: having lots of those types of characters.
Speaker 1: But it makes sense because you know, pattern recognition and
Speaker 1: everything like it just it does kind of make sense.
Speaker 1: You do kind of notice things.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It feels almost a bit lazy though
Speaker 2: as the writer that you just go, oh, well, this
Speaker 2: person can spot all these things. Oh yeah, And it
Speaker 2: means I don't have to worry about like putting in
Speaker 2: clever bits because they can just work it all out.
Speaker 1: But again, that's why I think it works well on
Speaker 1: this level of the thing that we're in in this
Speaker 1: because it's deep down in that it's it's a parody
Speaker 1: of a parody of a parody almost, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it loses all its nuance at this point exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's like I said at the beginning, like
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of why I find it hard to
Speaker 1: watch and get on with it, because it's it is
Speaker 1: just so m like yeah, like two dimensions, one dimensional even,
Speaker 1: you know, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a series where they're so known for their
Speaker 2: character work, exactly.
Speaker 1: And I know, you know, people could think I'm talking
Speaker 1: rubbish because that's the whole point. And I know that's
Speaker 1: the whole point, and it all makes sense when it
Speaker 1: gets the twist comes through at the end. But I'm
Speaker 1: just saying from a point of view of actually sitting
Speaker 1: down and watching it, it's a bit like it's not
Speaker 1: gonna lie.
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a slog a bit like
Speaker 2: Galen in oh yeah exactly, thinking out loud. How yeah,
Speaker 2: he's just like this stereotype character exactly, like deliberately bad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like not do this accent like no, no you can.
Speaker 1: But intentional And the fact that it's intentional is very clever,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't make it any less gratings. Watch, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so this next section is quite interesting actually, where she
Speaker 1: starts to she really starts to question her surroundings and
Speaker 1: start to think a lot of this is not making sense,
Speaker 1: and that must be you know, for someone who, yes,
Speaker 1: she's a fictional character, but she doesn't know that, she
Speaker 1: thinks she's real. Yeah, that's quite scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I started to wonder whether it was
Speaker 2: some sort of the chef Alzheimer's or exactly something like that.
Speaker 2: This is how it's presenting, we're being presented.
Speaker 1: It, mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just literally that is we bothered to imagine
Speaker 2: any more of her house than he absolutely has to exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I suppose you know, Okay, he hasn't flushed
Speaker 1: her out very much because he's just experimenting at this stage.
Speaker 1: But any fictional character is never going to be as
Speaker 1: fleshed out as a real human being. No, So you know,
Speaker 1: any if any character this happened to them they discovered
Speaker 1: they were a character, it would be the same, wouldn't
Speaker 1: It would be like yeah, it's like I tell you
Speaker 1: what it reminded me of. And again going down to
Speaker 1: a doctor who tangents. Sorry listeners, if you're not into
Speaker 1: doctor I.
Speaker 2: Know where you're going.
Speaker 1: But Forest of the Dead yes with Donna. Yes, I
Speaker 1: love that episode and that the moment when you know
Speaker 1: she people starts pointing out to her that you know,
Speaker 1: your children aren't real and stuff, and she's sort of
Speaker 1: she's very resistant to it, but then they you know
Speaker 1: that she can't, they just disappear. Yeah. Then it reminded
Speaker 1: me of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, also a Steve episode.
Speaker 1: Weirdly, oh yes, but yeah, I can't imagine. It's a
Speaker 1: very cool idea, this thing of a character becoming aware
Speaker 1: that they're a character.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. It's like what's the most, what's the most
Speaker 2: they ever could get away with it? Like, no writer
Speaker 2: is ever going to a filled in in their mind
Speaker 2: on the paper. I guess it's got to literally be
Speaker 2: written on the paper as well for her to know it,
Speaker 2: like what's in every cupboard of the kitchen?
Speaker 1: And yeah, but no, I think even even what you're
Speaker 1: saying there, but even if it's in their head like you,
Speaker 1: I don't think the human brain is capable of creating
Speaker 1: a whole real life no, so.
Speaker 2: Not less asked no, like specifically what's in this cupboard?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you'd have to think of it you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 2: You could come up with it there and then, but
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have.
Speaker 1: There's always going to be gaps, like yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: they could look at their window and see nothing. Just
Speaker 1: why it's based because I wondered that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because they made the point of the window has always
Speaker 2: been the curtains always been drawn or BLI or whatever.
Speaker 2: I wondered if at some point they were going to
Speaker 2: open the curtains and it'd just be nothing outside.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of interesting stuff in this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel like it could have been a
Speaker 2: film almost, Like there's a lot more that they could
Speaker 2: have fleshed it out with.
Speaker 1: So Ezra has come to the conclusion that this character
Speaker 1: is just not working. No, and he's going to yep,
Speaker 1: and that's the end of Cat And.
Speaker 2: That's why he's introduced Barnabas. At this point, he's tried
Speaker 2: to make her more in a friend and a colleague
Speaker 2: and on again off again love interesting.
Speaker 1: But Barnabas is better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we can go here. This might have legs. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like how when he's realized it's a cliche and
Speaker 1: she's like I said that on page bloody one.
Speaker 2: Even she knows it's page one, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: It's almost like it just comes out of her without realizing,
Speaker 1: like she she probably meant to say like the other day,
Speaker 1: but it just comes out of her. She knows it's
Speaker 1: page one. Yep, it's I love that. It's like now
Speaker 1: now the curtain's been pulled back, It's like it's.
Speaker 2: Just so obvious you can see it all. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Barnabas says she's a bit generic, and she
Speaker 1: just shoots that him funk off rain Man. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to. I haven't watched rain Man. You'll
Speaker 1: be surprised to know.
Speaker 2: I have seen it years ago, but i'd like to.
Speaker 1: It's on my list.
Speaker 2: I can't remember a lot about it, but I don't
Speaker 2: remember it being good.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I've heard good things about it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. This interesting scene of of Katrine not wanting to
Speaker 2: accept that she isn't real like she's having this debate
Speaker 2: ultimately boils down to if she doesn't even know her
Speaker 2: daughter's name.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that bit. That's really good actually.
Speaker 2: Because is not bothered to give her one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's desperately trying to produce it and she just
Speaker 1: can't m m and she goes running off to you
Speaker 1: verify that her daughter's there. Yeah, and she's got no face.
Speaker 1: Also reminded me of Forrest that did she hasn't got
Speaker 1: a face.
Speaker 2: I'm an idiot's London.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well yeah, now I was that too, But
Speaker 1: it's specifically Catherine Jake saying that, Yeah, that is a
Speaker 1: creepy bit when when the faceless child is just.
Speaker 2: Really creepy. Yeah, and I guess we put her to
Speaker 2: bed at this point for the time being.
Speaker 1: What's his name? Barnabas is going to get a three
Speaker 1: book deal? Oh yeah, Red Rags or Bull, the Bull's
Speaker 1: Eye and bull Shit in a China Shop.
Speaker 2: Hope he doesn't have more box because we're going to run.
Speaker 1: Out of exactly there are any more bull idioms of
Speaker 1: it cock and bull story. I don't want to know
Speaker 1: what happens in that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it stops, it stops being flattering at a point.
Speaker 1: Again, I know, I said, you know, the autistic stereotype
Speaker 1: and all that. It's very funny when they say about
Speaker 1: unspecified mentoror literally just runs out and stop.
Speaker 2: Shouting, stop shouting, so on the nose.
Speaker 1: On the nose, it's very funny. I think that's that's
Speaker 1: the that's what makes it so funny because they've literally
Speaker 1: just pointed out he's a stereotype, and think he just
Speaker 1: goes and does the most stereotype thing you can imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sort of going over like flashing the lights
Speaker 2: on and off and on enough or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, lining up toy trains or something. Yeah. Yes,
Speaker 1: so he has to let the character go yep, and
Speaker 1: we jump forward and Ball has become a huge success.
Speaker 1: This bit makes me die with laughter. When he's on
Speaker 1: the phone talking about you know who they could get
Speaker 1: to play and just like pops up behind.
Speaker 2: It's so perfectly timed, appears out of the back.
Speaker 1: Yeah genius. Yeah, I think everyone needs a little Reee
Speaker 1: Shearsmith just popping up like the bad devil on the shoulder.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Reese would definitely be the devil on the shoulder,
Speaker 2: and Steve would.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my god, I love that. Just encouraging you
Speaker 1: to call everyone. His wife Philippa comes.
Speaker 2: Home, Yeah, she lost the phone or a phone's been nicked. Yes,
Speaker 2: she will go to Waitros.
Speaker 1: That's a little dig there, could have made it little.
Speaker 2: Oh no littles the better supermarkets?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: Well? I don't. I don't know why I don't like Asda.
Speaker 2: I just really don't. I can never find anything in
Speaker 2: an Asda Arra Morrison's fascinating, yes, riveting conversation. Feel free
Speaker 2: to trim this out.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's going to be the clip for social media.
Speaker 2: I have a poll on favorite supermarkets.
Speaker 1: So yes. The kind of shocking bit is that nobody
Speaker 1: has picked up their san Ashley from swimming. Yes, because
Speaker 1: somebody has sent a text to him saying that, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't speak him out, and like, who's done that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as far as you're awareing a first watch,
Speaker 2: this is reality now exactly. So suddenly the episode takes
Speaker 2: a very dark turn. Yeah, exactly, and you're starting to think,
Speaker 2: is it some sort of real world like copycat of
Speaker 2: his story or yeah, is his story coming to life?
Speaker 2: Or what's happening?
Speaker 1: I feel like I did think on my first watch.
Speaker 1: I did. My first thought was what Kat because he's
Speaker 1: wronged her, you know, and it would make sense for
Speaker 1: her to then want revenge or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if I realized how, whether I
Speaker 2: assumed there would be another level to this.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't think that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I did a lot. I think
Speaker 2: I did. The second that you saw Ezra wake up
Speaker 2: in the same way that Katrina does.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was gonna say that's that's a very much
Speaker 1: a deliberate nod.
Speaker 2: Which is a long way before you get the reveal though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's nice foreshadowing. Ye, he's waking up the
Speaker 1: same way that his character was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still something a little bit odd about that
Speaker 2: whole Who's got the Sun thing that I guess is
Speaker 2: it's probably intentional, but that doesn't quite feel real, Like
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel the same amount of panic as they
Speaker 2: should be.
Speaker 1: No, and the wife, the acting of the wife is
Speaker 1: a little bit like stilted. Yeah, And I'm like, she's
Speaker 1: doing that deliberately, Like you realize when you watch back
Speaker 1: she's doing that deliberately for the for the fictional fictionality
Speaker 1: of it. But on a first watch it is a
Speaker 1: little bit like, oh, you know what we're doing here.
Speaker 2: It should be a bit more panics than you are exactly. So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So in the middle of the night there they're
Speaker 1: up in the night sort of panicking about all this,
Speaker 1: and then we get Misilda Gordon mm hm.
Speaker 2: That makes house calls in the middle of the night. Apparently,
Speaker 2: Oh apparently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've not even considered that, but yeah, I just
Speaker 1: used your catchphrase.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, I obviously you know, the final twist being
Speaker 1: that she's actually the author. Yeah, I kind of wish
Speaker 1: she hadn't introduced herself as family liaison.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: I wish it had been like Steve at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and she just appeared and we just had to sort
Speaker 1: of infer who she is.
Speaker 2: Infer what she was there for. Yeah, and it might
Speaker 2: seem like she's just from the police or whatever. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: you'd square it in your head.
Speaker 1: And because the fact that she says she's family Laison
Speaker 1: then feels like it's just a lie just to cover
Speaker 1: it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've got written my notes like I don't understand Matilda,
Speaker 2: like what and then why she dies? I don't, But
Speaker 2: then she isn't it I don't. Yeah, I don't really understand.
Speaker 2: I get I get what the whole point is. I
Speaker 2: get that she's like all this, but oh yeah, there's
Speaker 2: two there's a bit too much of obfiscating the truth
Speaker 2: by just sort of outright lying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a bit weird, the fact that she
Speaker 1: dies like that, because it's like, has she become a
Speaker 1: character in her own story?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd have rather either her be vague, like you say,
Speaker 2: of this Liaison character being an entirely new character exactly. Yes,
Speaker 2: in fact, yeah, if you'd had her in an entire
Speaker 2: new character and her be really basic. And then when
Speaker 2: it cuts to the real Matilda or the writer rather yeah,
Speaker 2: go oh she isn't working. She's so so two dimensional.
Speaker 2: I don't need that character. I've killed her off. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's why she's died. Like, but it's the fact
Speaker 2: that it's the same person playing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is very weird.
Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1: No, I very much agree.
Speaker 2: So then we get the weirdness with all these characters
Speaker 2: coming together in the kitchen and I don't I don't
Speaker 2: quite know what's going on here. So these characters seem
Speaker 2: to have sentience over what's going on.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't get any because Ezra is the one
Speaker 1: who's confused and like what's going on. He's discovering that
Speaker 1: he's not real, whereas like Philippa seems to just know
Speaker 1: that she's a character and not care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Kat suddenly seems to think she she is,
Speaker 2: like she's got some sort of agency here, and she
Speaker 2: wants she's fully aware that she's a character, but wants
Speaker 2: her story to be told. And I don't Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm a bit a bit confused here.
Speaker 1: It does get a bit confusing.
Speaker 2: It's enjoy it, it's very enjoyable to watch, but don't
Speaker 2: really understand the sort of real world in inverted commas
Speaker 2: of what's actually going on.
Speaker 1: It's kind of dream like, isn't it. Just Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and obviously you know at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's just Matilda playing around with stuff.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think, but why is Matilda playing around
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 1: To try stuff and see what works? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe she's considering making Philipper lesbian I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose, And whether she's considering killing off Barnabas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, Kat decides she wants to him to
Speaker 1: finish her story so she can be a hero and
Speaker 1: be on the shelves.
Speaker 2: God Lie not self.
Speaker 1: Published on Amazon as a shy Kindle exclusive. Yeah, venom
Speaker 1: in that that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Without wanting to go back into it not making sense. Yes,
Speaker 2: Cat's back, but Kat could only be back if Ezra
Speaker 2: is wanting her to be back. Was my understanding before.
Speaker 1: No, Well, for me, I think it's because Matilda is
Speaker 1: writing a story in which a writer is haunted by
Speaker 1: his characters. So within in Matilda's story, the character of
Speaker 1: Cat has come out of the story, right, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: So in Matilda's eyes, yes, okay, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like about Stephen King, as she says, I can't which
Speaker 2: one isn't I want to say it's somewhere in the
Speaker 2: dark tower where I've not read them, but I really
Speaker 2: want to where I think they spend a whole chapter
Speaker 2: or two these characters trying to break out of the
Speaker 2: book to wake up Stephen King, who's in a drug
Speaker 2: bender or something. Oh really, and isn't writing their story anymore?
Speaker 2: Or something to that.
Speaker 1: Effect that rings a bell.
Speaker 2: Yes, which I order is whatever they're sort of joking on.
Speaker 1: Probably, yes, yes. I also find it interesting how she
Speaker 1: says she can't do endings, but yet she says that
Speaker 1: all her books are famous for having a final twist.
Speaker 1: So how do those two things fit together?
Speaker 2: Or it's just that she really struggles to write them.
Speaker 2: She gets them there eventually, but it's the thing that
Speaker 2: she struggles with the most. But then I imagine that's
Speaker 2: The thing that most writers struggle with the most is
Speaker 2: ending them, and that's particularly unusual.
Speaker 1: No, I hate endings. I much prefer beginnings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so much easy. You don't have to worry
Speaker 2: about how it works exactly. The murder happened in this
Speaker 2: locked room. That's exciting. Yeah it is. How did it happen?
Speaker 2: No idea, I'll get that later.
Speaker 1: I think the trick is to work out the end
Speaker 1: in first.
Speaker 2: And work backwards. Yeah, should be. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really like the bit with the book, Yes, realizing
Speaker 1: that it's, you know, real, this book he's written and
Speaker 1: that's published and everything. It's Actually it's very much like
Speaker 1: a dream, isn't it that you you know, isn't there
Speaker 1: That famous thing of how to tell if you're in
Speaker 1: a dream is to open a book and look at
Speaker 1: the page. Yeah you heard of that, Yes, And it's like,
Speaker 1: if you can read the text, then it's real, and
Speaker 1: if you can't, then it's not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Something I have often in dreams that I don't
Speaker 2: I've never actually said any before is checking what time
Speaker 2: it is, right, and you're looking at the time and
Speaker 2: in a dream and if you blink, the time changes. Oh,
Speaker 2: I find I don't know if that's just the me thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and the time never concrete because I don't
Speaker 2: know what time. It is interesting, right, And if you're
Speaker 2: as weird as I am, well, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think I would remember that specifically dream because
Speaker 1: my dreams send to be if I have, If I
Speaker 1: do remember them, they're quite vague. M I don't think
Speaker 1: I've ever been aware like Lucid in a dream, to
Speaker 1: be like thinking about it, whether it's a dream or not.
Speaker 2: I have occasionally. It doesn't app very often, but I have.
Speaker 2: I do every now and then. Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. You shuddenly realize it's a dream and you
Speaker 2: can just fly and do anything. But you generally, or
Speaker 2: at least I generally, wake up quite quickly afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, i'd imagine you were. But yeah, I love the
Speaker 1: louramipsum stop chext on the back. It's just like if you.
Speaker 2: Know, you know, it's a great little joke.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then all the pages a blank, which is
Speaker 1: funny because you saw Cat reading it just a few
Speaker 1: minutes ago and.
Speaker 2: There were words of the page then Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: It's only now he's actually looking at it. You can't
Speaker 1: see anything.
Speaker 2: I imagine it's more a production thing if they couldn't
Speaker 2: be bothered to actually print lamps them all over the
Speaker 2: actual full book. Yeah, but it was easier just to
Speaker 2: have a blank book.
Speaker 1: But I was thinking, you know, they could have they
Speaker 1: could have filmed the scene with Cat so that you
Speaker 1: can never see the inside.
Speaker 2: Of the book. True, but I guess.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, because, like I said, it's it's only
Speaker 1: when he actually actively looks at it, you see, because
Speaker 1: it's just like imaginary.
Speaker 2: But I didn't notice as well. I don't think you
Speaker 2: ever see him pick the book up. He just has
Speaker 2: it when he needs to hold it, Oh, which is
Speaker 2: a nice touch. So yeah, Ezra gets the cat treatment. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh fuck, none of this is real either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the end of him m hmm.
Speaker 2: And presumably Barnabas and Cat and poor Katie Perry and
Speaker 2: all the other felines.
Speaker 1: And that's that's it, then, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Have you watched the credits of this one? I
Speaker 2: normally skip, well, like skip the credits because it just
Speaker 2: comes up with the play next thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you only get the first few seconds he
Speaker 2: watched this. You've got a really creepy little song by
Speaker 2: the daughter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember hearing that, yeah, about.
Speaker 2: These two little ducklings and only one came home and yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's really creepy. The background of the behind the
Speaker 2: credits slowly shifts to be this door. Its door opens
Speaker 2: and the faces girl just appears and then it ends
Speaker 2: very creepy.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I need to have a look
Speaker 1: at that.
Speaker 2: I don't know whether they do all other episodes. I'm
Speaker 2: going to start watching now. That's a good point I've
Speaker 2: never noticed before.
Speaker 1: I know that song very well because when I worked
Speaker 1: in a school. If I was ever a nursery, we
Speaker 1: always used to.
Speaker 2: Sing it a song for this No.
Speaker 1: No, it's one of those where you know where they're like.
Speaker 1: So it starts off five little ducks when swimming one day,
Speaker 1: and then it's like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was thrown by it being two.
Speaker 1: But yeah, why is children singing so creepy?
Speaker 2: No idea, but it is main reason I don't want kids.
Speaker 2: Can imagine the little just creepily singing away in a
Speaker 2: room somewhere like yeah, no, they just sat in the
Speaker 2: corner of the room singing to themselves.
Speaker 1: No, So I believe I don't believe in ghosts. Or
Speaker 1: like reincarnation or any of those things. But I do
Speaker 1: sometimes find myself going down a rabbit hole on Twitter
Speaker 1: when you see those threads of like creepy things that
Speaker 1: children have done. People share their stories and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: my favorite one is the one about the child that
Speaker 1: said to their parents the people in the wall don't
Speaker 1: like you or something. And then and then they were
Speaker 1: the persons like what should I do? Someone replied on
Speaker 1: twisham was like, you should spend less time asking what
Speaker 1: you should do and more time thinking about how to
Speaker 1: be a person. The war people would approve of.
Speaker 2: My favorite was the parents saying good night and the
Speaker 2: kids saying goodbye, and the parent going no, we say
Speaker 2: good night, and the kid goes, yes, I know, but
Speaker 2: tonight it's goodbye.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's awful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what I could for. Yeah, get that
Speaker 2: straight to a nunnery. Yeah, abandon that on the church
Speaker 2: steps immediately. I don't want to live in a horror film,
Speaker 2: thank you very much. There's a great I can't it's
Speaker 2: called but it's a great parody horror film with the
Speaker 2: creepy child and with its mum and the stepdad and
Speaker 2: the stepdad can tell that this kid is creepy and
Speaker 2: evil and the mom can't trying to kill the dad
Speaker 2: the whole time. Its great, it's so obvious but you
Speaker 2: can't see it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that sounds amazing. Any who?
Speaker 2: Any who? Indeed, Yes, what were ranking this? Then?
Speaker 1: Oh it's tough. I've got a number in mind, and
Speaker 1: I don't want people to crucify me.
Speaker 2: Hmm, you can go first, Okay, do you want me
Speaker 2: to go now?
Speaker 1: I'll go first. I think I'm going to say three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking three or four?
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I think I've explained my reasons why. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I do appreciate it, and I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of very interesting stuff in it. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of clever stuff in it. But I just I
Speaker 1: don't find it particularly enjoyable.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I have flashes where and I think it
Speaker 2: could be great. But I think it's one of those
Speaker 2: great examples of the concept is great, but that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean it can translate into a story like you have
Speaker 2: plenty of you've seen the film in time. I think
Speaker 2: it is justin Tim Blake film, which obviously tells you
Speaker 2: all you really need to know about it, but it
Speaker 2: has the great concept of instead of in this universe,
Speaker 2: instead of money, you have time. So everyone has like
Speaker 2: a year on them that ticks down and you can
Speaker 2: get paid in time, and like rich people have thousands
Speaker 2: of years and poor people have minutes and seconds, and
Speaker 2: it sounds it's a really interesting concept. But the film
Speaker 2: is shit. There's no real film I see, Like, how
Speaker 2: do you translate that into a story?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a shame that happens.
Speaker 2: See three or four. I'll go three as well. I think, okay, fair,
Speaker 2: we never actually big thing we've missed here? What is
Speaker 2: the nine?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: The kind of sort of isn't one other than we
Speaker 2: randomly see a teally chart at the start, but that
Speaker 2: doesn't really link to anything.
Speaker 1: That This might be the most abstract nine we've had
Speaker 1: so far.
Speaker 2: I'd have liked the reveal at the end to be
Speaker 2: that the name that the book she's writing is called
Speaker 2: the nine or something or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. We're not we're
Speaker 1: not insider nine at all.
Speaker 2: And it's not like the character's name is it Like
Speaker 2: it's a nickname at best. Yeah, And we're not really
Speaker 2: it's not really her. The whole episode anyway, no, Yeah,
Speaker 2: pedant me strikes again. Yeah, I don't really understand.
Speaker 1: No, that's a very good point.
Speaker 2: It's very good point as far as we know that
Speaker 2: this is house number nine and it's all irrelevant. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we just just never get shown it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if you love this episode, listen, we're sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all just our opinions, exactly, exactly. And
Speaker 2: as I'm sure I've said a thousand times before, like
Speaker 2: some episodes were like sometimes you don't and you might
Speaker 2: think the exact opposite and their fone valid. And that's
Speaker 2: the great thing about this show.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So I'm sure anyone who makes a podcast
Speaker 1: or puts content out online, it's not that unusual to
Speaker 1: imagine that you might once in a while have a
Speaker 1: little Google and see what people are saying about it.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I do do that from time to time,
Speaker 1: and we're very lucky that the vast majority of it
Speaker 1: is very positive. People are very lovely about what we do.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I did have a little Google the other
Speaker 1: day and I came across somebody absolutely ranting about the
Speaker 1: scores we were giving in to certain episodes. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I was a bit like, wow, we do make it
Speaker 1: very clear this is just our opinions, and it's just
Speaker 1: also it's just our opinions sort of on a whim
Speaker 1: almost at the time of how we're feeling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially the scoring bit at the end, very much
Speaker 2: just finger in the air at the moment.
Speaker 1: It's just, yeah, it's just a bit of fun, really,
Speaker 1: isn't it to give it a number? Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like this, this thread I was reading was
Speaker 1: a little bit like we're offending people by scoring certain
Speaker 1: episodes lowly. But yeah, sorry if you feel that way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and like we love this series. We wouldn't
Speaker 2: be doing this if we didn't love it exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: Even our least favorite said well empty orchestraside. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: but we enjoyed them in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 2: I love them all.
Speaker 1: That was one of the ones that they were saying,
Speaker 1: I can't believe they scored it so low.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I can't understand. I wish I could
Speaker 2: see how people can exactly what they see how they
Speaker 2: see it exactly. And that doesn't mean you're wrong, no,
Speaker 2: And I'm very happy.
Speaker 1: For you that you like it, but yeah, we we
Speaker 1: just everyone has a different opinion. Yeah, and this we're
Speaker 1: sharing ours, and I know, yeah. I think one of
Speaker 1: the issues was like, oh, the rating is a bit
Speaker 1: like is it based on how they feel or whether
Speaker 1: they like it or whether they think it's objectively good?
Speaker 1: And the answer is, I don't know. We're making happens
Speaker 1: to go along.
Speaker 2: So a bit of all of them. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It's just vibes, babes.
Speaker 2: It's not even consistent week on week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be fun when we finished it
Speaker 1: all to look back at these numbers and be like,
Speaker 1: how much sens does that actually make?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we actually sought them by order, whether we'll
Speaker 2: agree with it. I've just noticed though, we're within point
Speaker 2: three of having the same average score, which is yes,
Speaker 2: I'm slightly lower, slightly, only slightly.
Speaker 1: It makes me slightly more pessimistic.
Speaker 2: Then we round to the same number.
Speaker 1: True, but yeah, are you going to ask me your
Speaker 1: favorite question?
Speaker 2: Yet's go for it. Where was the hair? Did you
Speaker 2: spot it? I've got clue, no me, neither. I gave
Speaker 2: up to look up afterwards. But there are two sort
Speaker 2: of oh really so yeah. The main one is kind
Speaker 2: of where I thought it was, but it's kind of
Speaker 2: hard to see if it's in shadows, but it's behind
Speaker 2: Matilda's laptop when she's doing her bit at the end.
Speaker 1: That makes sense for it to be there because it's
Speaker 1: that's the reality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, that's a good point. Yeah. The other one
Speaker 2: sort of is it's the publisher's logo on the book.
Speaker 2: It's not. It's not the same hair exactly, but it
Speaker 2: is a hair's head okay, like a rabbit head is
Speaker 2: in the top left corner of the back of the book.
Speaker 2: That's nice, which is more a sort of I guess
Speaker 2: little nod rather. Yeah, it's not the air, but it's
Speaker 2: no Yeah cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, there we go.
Speaker 2: Indeed, did you suppot our hair listen?
Speaker 1: Now you'll have to Yeah, you have to let us know.
Speaker 1: Just before we finish. I have a message to read
Speaker 1: out and this one comes from owlsome on Twitter from
Speaker 1: who owl?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, and why's Alson got in touch?
Speaker 1: Well, they got in touch with us just after our
Speaker 1: Simon Says episode came out where we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about fandom and they said, Hi, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to thank you for your podcast. I listened to it
Speaker 1: every morning because one episode is almost as long as
Speaker 1: my drive to the office. I particularly enjoyed the Stakeout episode,
Speaker 1: obviously since it's one of my favorite in Side number
Speaker 1: nine episodes. But I'm still laughing at you calling Reese's
Speaker 1: fans intense since I'm one of them. So keep up
Speaker 1: the good work from an intense Reese Shearsmith fan. So yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for that message. And yeah, I'll just say
Speaker 1: what I said when I replied back to them, which
Speaker 1: is that you know, as I think we said on
Speaker 1: the episode, it's it's perfectly fine to be a fan
Speaker 1: of somebody in their work, even you know, quite ardently.
Speaker 1: But I think we were just saying where it crosses
Speaker 1: the line when it gets a bit sort of personal
Speaker 1: and a bit like sorcery.
Speaker 2: But don't go find them in Asda, no exactly or.
Speaker 1: Any supermarket, yes see earlier in the episode. Ye, so,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure, I'm sure none of our listeners are
Speaker 1: that sort of person. So yes, nice, But yeah, thanks
Speaker 1: for getting in touch.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Keep the messages coming in always a pleasure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're lovely. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Apart from that one thrill I found on Google. Now
Speaker 1: I'm joking, actually, like I did say, actually it wasn't
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. It was had some issues, but
Speaker 1: it was also a little bit like you know.
Speaker 2: It was optimistic as well.
Speaker 1: And all that exactly exactly. And I said to you
Speaker 1: as well when I showed you, I was like, I
Speaker 1: think we've made it.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I know you've got you know, being a bit negative
Speaker 1: about you, it means you've really made it. So yes,
Speaker 1: we're back next week for kid Slash nap.
Speaker 2: Yeh see you slash then, Yes, but.
Speaker 1: For now, I think it's time to close the door
Speaker 1: on number nine.
Speaker 2: But you never leave, do you, especially if you're fictional
Speaker 2: and live in a drap. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as I say, this is where it gets revealed
Speaker 1: that actually we're not real, we're just fictional characters. No,
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone would read that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know when you watch like The Truman Show
Speaker 2: or something and someone's like, oh, what if it is
Speaker 2: all fake? No one's watching thirty odd years of this. No,
Speaker 2: this program would have been canceled years.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Ninth Degree. If you'd like
Speaker 1: to get in touch, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and TikTok at Ninth Degree Pod or email us at
Speaker 1: Ninth Degree Pod at gmail dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: leave us a rating or a review wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts