WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:15.759 You're listening to Jay's Analysis. This is the introduction to the. 2 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:17.239 Jays Analysis podcast. 3 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:24.399 The only authoritative source for Jay's analysis is Jay's Analysis, Film, Philosophy, Geopolitics, 4 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:28.879 the Esoteric, and much much more satire and comedy too, 5 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:40.039 now added bonus for free. 6 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:49.359 One of the more difficult topics to disect is the 7 00:00:49.359 --> 00:00:54.200 topic of neoplatonism in Christianity. And I put a lot 8 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:57.119 of years into this question because it is very texting, 9 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:01.799 it's very intricate, but we can to some understanding on this, 10 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:05.000 and the purpose of this video is going to be 11 00:01:05.079 --> 00:01:07.280 a kind of a rough introduction to the longer talk 12 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:10.359 that I'm going to do now. I've been reading recently 13 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:16.719 Michael Hoffman's new book, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome, 14 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:20.239 and as you can see, I'm about almost halfway. So 15 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:22.879 I just got this the other day and I'm about 16 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:27.400 halfway through the seven hundred page attack on the last 17 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:32.400 five to eight hundred years of Western Roman Catholicism. And 18 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.719 most of what's in here I think is correct. Everything 19 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.799 I've seen so far is pretty solid. There's a couple 20 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.519 of areas where I take issue with Hoffman, particularly where 21 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:45.760 it's related to the character of Augustine if you look 22 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:51.799 at Plotonis's and Neids, the phillyoquay that Augustine pioneered and 23 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:56.439 which was subsequently dogmatized by the Council of Toledo with 24 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.879 papal approval, which you can also find a dissection of 25 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:06.799 in my essay that I just wrote about aryan arguments 26 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.919 being used by Philioquist. So it's actually an inverse. It 27 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:15.520 does not at all achieve the purpose for which the 28 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:20.120 filioque was intended. But we're gonna not really delve into 29 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.879 Augustine and all that right now, because the main point 30 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:26.719 of this is to do a bit of a review 31 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:31.639 of the first half of Hoffman's book and then maybe 32 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:35.280 my own thoughts on it. But as I said, you know, 33 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.560 over the last ten to fifteen years, this is a 34 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:41.199 topic that's been very central to me. In my twenties, 35 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:45.199 I was very much into Tomism and prior to that 36 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:49.400 also the Augustinian tradition. So you know, most of my 37 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.840 twenties I spent reading those two guys in mass Obviously 38 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.360 I read other things too. I wasn't just studying Tomism, 39 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.199 but you know, those things were something I took very serious. 40 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:05.759 Thing weren't there weren't ideologies that I adopted happenstance or 41 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.719 willy nilly. I really put the time and the effort 42 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.360 into it. And so I have my Suma over here, 43 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.439 and I have tremendous amounts of notes in it, as 44 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:16.840 well as the Summa country Geen t Lace the other work, 45 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:19.680 as well as other I have the Katina Array of 46 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:22.000 quinas well, which is a commentary on the Gospels and 47 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:25.919 other philosophical works de Veritate and so forth. So I'm 48 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:29.360 not I'm familiar with this territory. I know it very well. 49 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:34.439 I know very in depth that the nature of Tonism, 50 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.599 and it's a lot more complex than a lot of 51 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.400 times the way we want to break it down. Now, 52 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:42.960 that's not an attack on Hoffmann's book, although he does 53 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:47.080 still have a bit of a regard for Aquinas that 54 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:47.759 I wouldn't have. 55 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:49.560 With all of the. 56 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.280 Errors of created grace and beatific vision and philioque and 57 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:56.080 on and on and on that are occurring that occur 58 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:00.960 in the Suma Theologica, it really doesn't matter about those 59 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.800 guys and their opinions, because when it comes to the 60 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:08.759 topic of Roman Catholicism, what matters is what's dogma and 61 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.879 it's very clearly made dogma in Vatican One that the 62 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.959 ordinary Universal teaching Magisterium of the Church cannot air. So 63 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.199 when you read a book like Denzinger, which I've read, 64 00:04:20.199 --> 00:04:23.879 the entirety of Denzinger is the totality of what's more 65 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.399 or less dogmatic. It was put together before the Second 66 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:31.360 Vatican Council, so it constitutes dogma for normatively speaking, for 67 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.839 Roman Catholicism, or it's supposed to if they're consistent with it. 68 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:40.319 Of course, so they don't always follow that, but that's 69 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:44.199 a different question of all the dogmas. And but what 70 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:49.639 Hoffmann does is that he deconstructs some of the influences, 71 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:54.240 and that's very accurate, very appropriate. It echoes the work 72 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.079 of doctor Farrell and God History and Dialectic, which is 73 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.600 really just the systematization of the critique from the Orthodox 74 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.680 perspective over the last however, many hundreds of years. Right, 75 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:09.759 it's not new, it's not fresh arguments, it's really just 76 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:14.720 a systematization, and it's done very well. And shorter books 77 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:17.959 like James Kelly's An Atomizing Divinity that I've done many 78 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:21.000 interviews with. His book is a good presentation of the 79 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:25.199 same theme. But again we have to eventually let go 80 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:30.120 of some of these Augustinian ideas that just are not biblical. Now, 81 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.800 that's not to be unfair to Augustine, because again, when 82 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:36.040 I converted to Roman Catholicism back in I don't know, 83 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:38.759 two thousand and one or two, I took his name, 84 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.480 so I'm very familiar with what he teaches. I know 85 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.319 what's in on the Trinity. I know it's in on Baptism, 86 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:47.600 and I guess the Donatus, and I know it's in 87 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:52.639 retractions and soliloquies and on and on on. So to 88 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.600 be fair, obviously the later Augustine was a lot more 89 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.360 biblical in his approach. He did shed a lot of 90 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:05.199 that philosophical baggage, but it really doesn't matter, because we 91 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:09.519 don't build our theology on a guy. We don't build 92 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:12.839 our theology on Aquinas. We build our theology on the 93 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:17.199 Bible and then, by extension, the Church universally what the 94 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.680 Church is always believed everywhere and at all times. And 95 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.480 the Augustinian argumentation for the philioqui, as well as the 96 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.319 very very bad argument that I elucidated with absolute clarity 97 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.279 in my article that the Holy Spirit perceives from the 98 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:37.920 will of God. That's an aryan argument for why the 99 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:43.959 Son is a creation. So the subordinationism that is often 100 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:48.560 mentioned in terms of God and arianism and all that 101 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:54.800 actually applies most coherently to philioquism. And I've sent this 102 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:59.120 piece to numerous Catholics, numerous Catholic apologists. Nobody has responded 103 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:03.959 to it yet or given it any adequate uh defense. 104 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.319 And there's not going to be a defense, because it's 105 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:10.600 our it's in your dogma. So that that human psychological 106 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:15.879 analogy of mind and and will and the spirit being 107 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.399 will and all the stuff that's that's read up into 108 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.560 the Trinity, that's wrong. And we have to let that go. 109 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:24.360 And once we do that, and we get back to 110 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.360 what's in the Councils and what's in the Fathers, whose 111 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.959 theology has been confirmed by the Universal Church already in 112 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.519 the first seven slash eight Councils, which deal specifically with 113 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:44.720 Christology and the Triad. I mean those teachings are they're 114 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.040 pretty solid. I mean they line up there, They make sense, 115 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.399 They give balance to what we're what we believe, and 116 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:56.600 all the deviations, be it filioquism, be it papism, that 117 00:07:56.680 --> 00:07:59.360 you can all trace them back to deviations that relate 118 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:03.040 to Christology or the relationship between God and the world. 119 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:05.279 So what we're going to talk about now is the 120 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:08.279 subject matter of Hoffman's book, what is the relationship of 121 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:14.680 God to the world? And can we look to Plutonis 122 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:19.120 and Plato and Plethon and all of these Neoplatonic and 123 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:23.959 Platonic middle Platonic guys who are coming up with their 124 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:30.519 ratio mathematical mysticism as a way to understand God. And 125 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:32.440 I think that the answer is no. And that's an 126 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:37.440 emphatic no, because so much of the early Patristic argumentation 127 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.159 when it comes to the nature of God, or the 128 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:46.559 questions of Christology and the natures of Christ and so forth, 129 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:51.600 all those questions are not grounded in obscure neoplatonic arguments. 130 00:08:51.960 --> 00:08:54.559 They're grounded in the Bible. And you'll see that very 131 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:58.519 clearly when you read through their works, especially somebody like Athanasius, 132 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.240 or if you read Ceri Old Jerusalem, Saint Cerul of Alexandria, 133 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.519 if you read Saint Gregory Palomas a thousand years later, 134 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:09.039 the arguments are consistently Bible, Bible, Bible blah blah Bible 135 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:15.399 and if there's ever a philosophical subtlety or clarification that's 136 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.519 brought in, it's merely for a teaching tool. 137 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.080 We might use the. 138 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.639 Term monad, and I believe that if the Church fathers 139 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:27.960 ever used that term, Like when Athanasius and decent Otis 140 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:32.519 is arguing with about the Arians, he's making fun of 141 00:09:32.559 --> 00:09:34.960 the way that they talk about the monad and then 142 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.440 it being what creates a diad. So they're relying on neoplatonism. 143 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:44.039 When Saint Basil is arguing with heretics, he points out 144 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:49.919 that the I am the toe on I am being 145 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:55.000 supposedly that's not a Greek philosophical statement in Exodus. That's 146 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:58.720 not God is not saying I am super existent essence. 147 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.279 I am super existent. He's not saying that. 148 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:02.799 He's saying I. 149 00:10:02.679 --> 00:10:07.480 Am the personal God that has the covenantal relationship with Israel. 150 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:08.120 Right. 151 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:12.879 So the error has been that when the Church and 152 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.799 different apologists like Origin, we're trying to convert their friends 153 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.759 who are very steeped in Greek philosophy, a lot of 154 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:23.519 times they were speaking the Greek philosophical lingo to try 155 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.440 to have a common ground. Now, I don't think that 156 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.480 that's inherently necessarily always wrong, but it's it's a little 157 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.200 bit dangerous. I mean John does this in John one 158 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.320 one where he talks about the logos, and certainly the 159 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.879 corn corny Greek New Testament would have been going out 160 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:39.600 to people who spoke coin a Greek. 161 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.000 So it's not that it's wrong. 162 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.919 The terms inherently are wrong, it's rather the context and 163 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:49.600 what you mean by them. So for example, hoopostasis, the 164 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:55.159 personhood that's spoken of as a you know, characterizing the 165 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.600 Father of the Son and the spirit. This person aspect 166 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:05.000 that is not from Plotinus, is not from the Eneids, 167 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:11.279 it doesn't originate in Greek philosophers and Athens. It comes 168 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.759 out of the New Testament. Right, The New Testament uses 169 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:19.639 the Greek term hoypostasis, and this was again originating probably 170 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:23.879 ultimately in the Septuogen, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, 171 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:27.159 which is generally speaking, what the New Testament writers relied 172 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:31.120 on was the septuigen. So that's kind of the norm 173 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.320 in the Orthodox Church is generally speaking, is the septuagen 174 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:38.519 and that terminology. But again, as I've shown in my 175 00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:44.759 Logos talk, where we go to Saint John Damascus's exposition 176 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.879 of the Orthodox face. You know, what we see is 177 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.919 that it's clear that the context for these terms and words, 178 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.159 the one right the triad, it's not what Plato meant. 179 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:55.240 Okay. 180 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.039 So again, if you look at the eneids, if you 181 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:01.559 look at the third in the fifth in neid of Platinis, 182 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.679 you'll see that Platinis makes these arguments of how the 183 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:08.480 monad and the diad love one another, and then that 184 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:13.639 that love creates this third hypostasis, which is spirit or something. 185 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:17.799 Now that's obviously clearly what is being said by Augustine 186 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.559 when he tries to make this very new argument for 187 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:25.919 the philioque and this spirit proceeding from will and being will, 188 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:29.679 which is again there's no way to make that orthodox 189 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:34.720 because it's an aryan argument. So all that to say 190 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:41.159 that Hoffmann's book is another witness another researcher coming to 191 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:44.480 the conclusions that I came to that many have come 192 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:49.039 to for the most part, ten years or so ago, 193 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.559 when it was really a question of what is the 194 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:52.720 perennial philosophy? 195 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:53.919 What is this? 196 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.559 How does it relate to Neoplatonism, how does it relate 197 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:01.759 to the you know, Jewish mysticism, in the Kabbalah. How 198 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:07.720 does that relate to the topics of the Renaissance guys 199 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:14.600 like Marsilio Ficino and Cornelius Agrippa and who else, Johann 200 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.240 Reuchlinn and these different guys who were very interested in 201 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:24.679 utilizing Kabbalistic structures to try to convert Jews or as 202 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.960 a means by which the Church might be able to 203 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:32.080 improve upon its theology of who Christ is and all 204 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:37.960 this kind of stuff and divine Plato as he's called. Now, this, 205 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:42.960 as Hoffman correctly argues, has been the dominant trend since 206 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.279 the Renaissance, in the Renaissance papacy. And when you look 207 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.200 no further than the art and architecture of Rome to 208 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:55.000 see that confirmed. And that's ultimately what starts becoming. The 209 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:59.559 problem is, it's not just philosophers philosophizing, it's also. 210 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.240 Very weird artworks. 211 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:06.720 I remember when I was getting really into Rome Catholicism 212 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:10.320 back in my twenties, I took a tour of the 213 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:14.600 One of the actually is an episcopal cathedral. 214 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:16.559 I'm not making this up. You can look it up. 215 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:21.080 There's an episcopal cathedral in Memphis, and when you go 216 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:26.159 in there there's a giant blonde hair, blue eye Ariyan Jesus. 217 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.399 I don't know why they made him in an Aryan Jesus, 218 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:33.679 but there's and then he's like facing opposite of a 219 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:38.919 Michael the Archangel who's holding a scroll with E equals 220 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:42.799 MC squared on it with with Einstein's STICKT. Now, I 221 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:44.639 did a little research on this guy. I don't remember 222 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:50.320 his name, but he was very well respected Roman artisan 223 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.440 an artist, and I think he did a lot of 224 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.360 work for Pious the twelve and different popes and whatnot. 225 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:59.440 He's designed various cathedrals, so in the point, because it's 226 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:03.960 not just a Episcopalian thing, he's also very important for 227 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.759 all the Roman Catholic cathedrals that he's designed. And then 228 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:08.240 you start to think, well, now, wait a minute, So 229 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:12.480 there is actually all this bizarre alchemical imagery and all 230 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:17.720 these kinds of images that are that populate the cathedrals 231 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:21.600 of Roman Catholicism. Now, why would that be? And that's 232 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.120 what we're going to look at as we get into 233 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:27.879 this book. It is going to be precisely because the 234 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:36.639 West was not just corrupted through Renaissance and Hermeticism and 235 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:39.799 all this kind of stuff, from the year, you know, 236 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.720 fifteen hundred on or twelve hundred on. There's a deeper 237 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:49.320 route that is actually the philosophical presuppositions of absolute dune simplicity, 238 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:56.440 of filioquism, of created grace, of the natural immortality of 239 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.360 the soul as opposed to the body. All of these 240 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.480 things were already condemned in the chart. The soul is 241 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.559 not naturally immortal. It's what Christ grants to it through 242 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:08.240 the incarnation, death, buril. 243 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:08.679 And resurrection. 244 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:15.440 That's how we participate in the immortality that God has 245 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:21.399 promised us in the resurrection. And so very very different 246 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.679 doctrines is what I'm trying to point out here, and 247 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.879 so all the more absurd by the way, then for 248 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:29.799 Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox that try to mesh together 249 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:33.399 because the theology is not compatible. It's not compatible because 250 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:41.440 Neoplatonism is not compatible with the Bible, simply put. So, 251 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.279 what I want to do in this talk is get 252 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:49.320 into Middle and in later Platonism and particularly the character 253 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:53.600 of Platinus. And Platinus is important because his philosophy is 254 00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.720 very influential in the West and it leads to a 255 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:01.120 whole host of controversies and debates and part relationship to 256 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:06.160 the Christian Church in the first several centuries and then 257 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.839 even into the Middle Ages. The character of Plotinus and 258 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.400 his ineads, first of all, are going to be the 259 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:22.599 most relevant for influencing characters like Augustine. Now, if you 260 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.400 read a book like A City of God, for the 261 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.039 most part, City of God is something that we would consider, 262 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:33.160 you know, an orthodox book. It does contain several sections 263 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.680 of speculation, but the first half of the book is 264 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:40.039 Augustine's critique of the pagan world, the City of Man 265 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:44.920 as he calls it, and accurately accurately, So we would 266 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:50.559 say that the City of Man is flawed precisely because 267 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.119 it all the way back to you know what we 268 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.759 read in Genesis six or Genesis ten and eleven, the 269 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:02.359 Tower Babbel is basically been trying to erect a culture, 270 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:09.519 a society around the worship of Man slash Idolatry slash 271 00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:14.759 the Devil. And so the idea here is that you know, 272 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.599 all of the pagan empires in the past pretty much, 273 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:21.960 you know, collapse into that pattern. 274 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.279 You know, this is the entire experience of Israel as 275 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:26.680 a nation. 276 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:31.160 You know, with the Babylonian captivity and the destruction of 277 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:36.519 the temple. It's the experience of most of mankind throughout 278 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.759 history is to be subjected to some form of pagan 279 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:46.200 human based law that is tyrannical. And so this is 280 00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:52.079 not always totally brutal. You know, there was times where 281 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.079 the empires might provide a lot of peace. 282 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:57.039 And so you'll read. 283 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:01.039 In sections in Isaiah about Darius, and I excuse me, 284 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:08.400 about Cyrus and Isaiah and Darius with Daniel and Nebucaneser 285 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.400 and so forth. And at times these guys might have 286 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.799 even been converted by the prophets. We don't exactly know, 287 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.680 but we get tints of that, perhaps like with in 288 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:25.240 the Book of Daniel when he interacts with Nebucaneser. But regardless, 289 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:30.039 for the most part, the pagan empires are a thorn 290 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.920 in the side of God's people. And then, certainly for 291 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.039 the first few centuries of Christianity, the Empire is very 292 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:42.519 virulent on persecuting Christians. But the persecution quote unquote of 293 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:47.240 the Church and of our theology doesn't always come in. 294 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:55.400 The form of overt attack through dictators or kings or armies. 295 00:19:56.119 --> 00:20:02.680 It can also come at times through subtle philosophical wranglings 296 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:08.559 and sophistry, and one of those issues, I think you 297 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:13.720 could argue is shown. One of those examples is very 298 00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:19.119 clearly shown in the example of Platonis. Now, I'm not 299 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:22.240 saying that Platonus was necessarily Christian, but as we saw 300 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:27.440 in the talk that I did on the older Greek guys, 301 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.200 you know, Heraclitis and Promenides and the Ionians, and then 302 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.200 into Plato and Platonism, we saw a lot of figures 303 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.279 who were perhaps you know, into the Roman period as 304 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:43.880 it's called the Stoics, who were probably drawing from several 305 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.799 different well springs, maybe even Marcus Aurelius. Some of these 306 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:53.079 guys were probably influenced in some degree by Christian thought, 307 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:58.240 early theologians. But even though that's still a little unclear, 308 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.759 we know that there were, you know, dialogues between different 309 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:06.240 early Church writers, you know, writing letters to different Roman 310 00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:09.440 rulers and so forth, trying to explain that you know, 311 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:15.200 their position was not anti authoritarian in itself, that it 312 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:17.559 was just based on the law of God, and that 313 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:21.720 you know, they couldn't in good conscience sacrifice. 314 00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:22.200 The idols and so forth. 315 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:28.079 Now that philosophy of Platinus is crucial because it will 316 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:33.759 present one of the most subtle sort of challenges and 317 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:39.200 will influence some people to move in the direction of Platonism. 318 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:43.240 If I recall Celsus, one of the guys who Origin 319 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:49.359 was very pathetically trying to debate with the Celsus was 320 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.519 a Neoplatonist, and so you get a lot of that 321 00:21:53.559 --> 00:22:01.640 same tendency of the platonic argumentation, trying to show that 322 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:09.519 Christianity is foolish because it relies on the Old. 323 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:10.759 Testament being historical. 324 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.000 And so this is why when Irenaeus writes his big 325 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.599 Treatise against Heresies in I think one eighty or so, 326 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:25.079 somewhere in there, Iernas is battling a lot of Gnosticism, 327 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:30.079 and so Gnosticism and Platonism, Neoplatonism, these are very very 328 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:34.160 close cousins. They're very influenced perhaps one another at times, 329 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:38.880 and so there's not exactly one Neoplatonic thing. 330 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:39.440 That you can go to. 331 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.079 You get Sometimes you get these guys like Iamblicus, who 332 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:49.279 is more of a ceremonial magi magic magician type guy. 333 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.680 Sometimes you get characters like Platinists, where it's not so 334 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.920 much about ceremonial rituals as it is the individual in 335 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:06.039 his own innernosis, the intuitive spark of the inner divine, 336 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.880 and so forth, and that this is how the soul 337 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.720 ascends into the higher planetary realms and spheres up to 338 00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.359 the one as we see, we're going to see. That's 339 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:19.839 the argumentation of Plotinus, particularly. 340 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:20.079 In the Eneiods. 341 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:24.240 But if you recall, we did many lectures on Plato 342 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:26.599 and the dialogues and the entirety of the Republic, and 343 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.759 people can go back and listen to those, But the Fiato, 344 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:36.240 the Thiadrius, Symposium, Timaeus, Republic, these all provide the skeletal 345 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:41.319 outline for what will influence Plotinus, and what he does 346 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:42.640 is kind of dispense with all. 347 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:43.920 The Socratic dialogue. 348 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.200 It says, you know, out with all that stuff, let's 349 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:49.759 just have a more direct, almost a sort of a 350 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:52.160 philo theological treatise. 351 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:56.200 It's kind of what the Eneids are. It's not really. 352 00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:00.599 Making a distinction between those two because in plotin in thought, 353 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:06.200 there's not a distinction between the knowledge or nosis that 354 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:11.720 you gain in philosophy and theology. They're basically the same endeavors, 355 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:21.279 and so by extension, obviously there's no revelation. All experience 356 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:26.519 of the forms and phenomena are themselves quote revelation, you 357 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:34.720 could say, in plutonium thought. But if we remember, I 358 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.039 think I did do at least an article on the 359 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:42.319 Fayto and then a talk on it, I think, And 360 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:44.960 I still haven't gotten to the Tomayos yet. I've read 361 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.039 it obviously, but I haven't done an electro on it. 362 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.640 But if we recall that's this sort of Egyptian gnostic 363 00:24:51.319 --> 00:24:57.480 creation cosmogony of Plato is the Tomayis, and it's where 364 00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.960 we get a lot of the esoteric symbolism that continue 365 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.200 into the Western tradition. You know, the snake and the 366 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.400 egg and the oral bo roast and all that out 367 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.920 of the Tomais. The platonic solids come out of the Tomais. 368 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.240 And then of course we know everything that's in the Republic. 369 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.680 We we did a lecture on each one of the 370 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:15.720 books of the Republic. 371 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.319 So if we. 372 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:20.839 Recall all that, and if we remember the talk that 373 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:25.039 I did a couple of months ago about the mysteries 374 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.680 of the early Greeks or something to that, if I 375 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:30.079 forget exactly what I titled it, but something like that, 376 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:35.400 where we did a critique of the dialectics of the 377 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.480 Greeks and the one and the many, and that's kind 378 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:40.039 of what it all boiled down to, was this presupposition 379 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.839 of setting the one in contrast, contrastinction, dialectical tension and 380 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:50.839 opposition with the mini and vice versa. Now, when you 381 00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:55.200 get to Platinus, as we said, we've dispensed with Socratic 382 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:01.200 tales and storytelling and myths and and we've kind of 383 00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:07.799 tried to boil it into more of a principled, logical 384 00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:14.079 philosophical treatise that is metaphysical. So it's it's a logical, 385 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:21.119 rational approach to metaphysics, trying to pause it different tiers, 386 00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:29.599 structures and levels of reality. So what does he argue, Well, 387 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:34.720 in these aneads, he is giving this metaphysical structure, and 388 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.519 we're going to kind of go in summary here. Obviously 389 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.680 it's a fairly long book, so we're not gonna go 390 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:48.119 through every single one, but for four Plotinus, just like Plato, 391 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.720 the soul is divine. The object of life is to 392 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:54.799 understand how. 393 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.160 We might restore that soul to. 394 00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:02.039 Its original sort of proper place. And you know, the 395 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:06.720 getting back to the one, the journey back to the monad. Now, 396 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:12.720 this can only be done by knowing a comprehensive structure 397 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.599 of reality. We have to we have to have a 398 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:22.880 comprehensive knowledge of metaphysics and reality and our place in 399 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.440 the world in order to get to find the map back. 400 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.640 So in many ways the Labyrinth mythology could be could 401 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:35.839