1 00:00:12,199 --> 00:00:15,759 Speaker 1: You're listening to Jay's Analysis. This is the introduction to the. 2 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: Jays Analysis podcast. 3 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:24,399 Speaker 1: The only authoritative source for Jay's analysis is Jay's Analysis, Film, Philosophy, Geopolitics, 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,879 the Esoteric, and much much more satire and comedy too, 5 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:40,039 now added bonus for free. 6 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,359 Speaker 3: One of the more difficult topics to disect is the 7 00:00:49,359 --> 00:00:54,200 topic of neoplatonism in Christianity. And I put a lot 8 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,119 of years into this question because it is very texting, 9 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,799 it's very intricate, but we can to some understanding on this, 10 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:05,000 and the purpose of this video is going to be 11 00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:07,280 a kind of a rough introduction to the longer talk 12 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,359 that I'm going to do now. I've been reading recently 13 00:01:10,519 --> 00:01:16,719 Michael Hoffman's new book, The Occult Renaissance Church of Rome, 14 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,239 and as you can see, I'm about almost halfway. So 15 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:22,879 I just got this the other day and I'm about 16 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,400 halfway through the seven hundred page attack on the last 17 00:01:27,799 --> 00:01:32,400 five to eight hundred years of Western Roman Catholicism. And 18 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,719 most of what's in here I think is correct. Everything 19 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:39,799 I've seen so far is pretty solid. There's a couple 20 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,519 of areas where I take issue with Hoffman, particularly where 21 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,760 it's related to the character of Augustine if you look 22 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:51,799 at Plotonis's and Neids, the phillyoquay that Augustine pioneered and 23 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,439 which was subsequently dogmatized by the Council of Toledo with 24 00:01:56,519 --> 00:02:00,879 papal approval, which you can also find a dissection of 25 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:06,799 in my essay that I just wrote about aryan arguments 26 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,919 being used by Philioquist. So it's actually an inverse. It 27 00:02:11,479 --> 00:02:15,520 does not at all achieve the purpose for which the 28 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,120 filioque was intended. But we're gonna not really delve into 29 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:22,879 Augustine and all that right now, because the main point 30 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,719 of this is to do a bit of a review 31 00:02:26,719 --> 00:02:31,639 of the first half of Hoffman's book and then maybe 32 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:35,280 my own thoughts on it. But as I said, you know, 33 00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:38,560 over the last ten to fifteen years, this is a 34 00:02:38,599 --> 00:02:41,199 topic that's been very central to me. In my twenties, 35 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,199 I was very much into Tomism and prior to that 36 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,400 also the Augustinian tradition. So you know, most of my 37 00:02:49,439 --> 00:02:53,840 twenties I spent reading those two guys in mass Obviously 38 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,360 I read other things too. I wasn't just studying Tomism, 39 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,199 but you know, those things were something I took very serious. 40 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:05,759 Thing weren't there weren't ideologies that I adopted happenstance or 41 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,719 willy nilly. I really put the time and the effort 42 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,360 into it. And so I have my Suma over here, 43 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,439 and I have tremendous amounts of notes in it, as 44 00:03:14,439 --> 00:03:16,840 well as the Summa country Geen t Lace the other work, 45 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,680 as well as other I have the Katina Array of 46 00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:22,000 quinas well, which is a commentary on the Gospels and 47 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,919 other philosophical works de Veritate and so forth. So I'm 48 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,360 not I'm familiar with this territory. I know it very well. 49 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,439 I know very in depth that the nature of Tonism, 50 00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:37,599 and it's a lot more complex than a lot of 51 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:40,400 times the way we want to break it down. Now, 52 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,960 that's not an attack on Hoffmann's book, although he does 53 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,080 still have a bit of a regard for Aquinas that 54 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:47,759 I wouldn't have. 55 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: With all of the. 56 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 3: Errors of created grace and beatific vision and philioque and 57 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:56,080 on and on and on that are occurring that occur 58 00:03:56,199 --> 00:04:00,960 in the Suma Theologica, it really doesn't matter about those 59 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,800 guys and their opinions, because when it comes to the 60 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,759 topic of Roman Catholicism, what matters is what's dogma and 61 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,879 it's very clearly made dogma in Vatican One that the 62 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,959 ordinary Universal teaching Magisterium of the Church cannot air. So 63 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,199 when you read a book like Denzinger, which I've read, 64 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:23,879 the entirety of Denzinger is the totality of what's more 65 00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:26,399 or less dogmatic. It was put together before the Second 66 00:04:26,439 --> 00:04:31,360 Vatican Council, so it constitutes dogma for normatively speaking, for 67 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,839 Roman Catholicism, or it's supposed to if they're consistent with it. 68 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,319 Of course, so they don't always follow that, but that's 69 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:44,199 a different question of all the dogmas. And but what 70 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:49,639 Hoffmann does is that he deconstructs some of the influences, 71 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,240 and that's very accurate, very appropriate. It echoes the work 72 00:04:54,319 --> 00:04:57,079 of doctor Farrell and God History and Dialectic, which is 73 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,600 really just the systematization of the critique from the Orthodox 74 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,680 perspective over the last however, many hundreds of years. Right, 75 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,759 it's not new, it's not fresh arguments, it's really just 76 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,720 a systematization, and it's done very well. And shorter books 77 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,959 like James Kelly's An Atomizing Divinity that I've done many 78 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,000 interviews with. His book is a good presentation of the 79 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,199 same theme. But again we have to eventually let go 80 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:30,120 of some of these Augustinian ideas that just are not biblical. Now, 81 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800 that's not to be unfair to Augustine, because again, when 82 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,040 I converted to Roman Catholicism back in I don't know, 83 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,759 two thousand and one or two, I took his name, 84 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,480 so I'm very familiar with what he teaches. I know 85 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,319 what's in on the Trinity. I know it's in on Baptism, 86 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,600 and I guess the Donatus, and I know it's in 87 00:05:47,639 --> 00:05:52,639 retractions and soliloquies and on and on on. So to 88 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,600 be fair, obviously the later Augustine was a lot more 89 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,360 biblical in his approach. He did shed a lot of 90 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:05,199 that philosophical baggage, but it really doesn't matter, because we 91 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,519 don't build our theology on a guy. We don't build 92 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:12,839 our theology on Aquinas. We build our theology on the 93 00:06:12,879 --> 00:06:17,199 Bible and then, by extension, the Church universally what the 94 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,680 Church is always believed everywhere and at all times. And 95 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,480 the Augustinian argumentation for the philioqui, as well as the 96 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:31,319 very very bad argument that I elucidated with absolute clarity 97 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,279 in my article that the Holy Spirit perceives from the 98 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:37,920 will of God. That's an aryan argument for why the 99 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:43,959 Son is a creation. So the subordinationism that is often 100 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,560 mentioned in terms of God and arianism and all that 101 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,800 actually applies most coherently to philioquism. And I've sent this 102 00:06:54,879 --> 00:06:59,120 piece to numerous Catholics, numerous Catholic apologists. Nobody has responded 103 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:03,959 to it yet or given it any adequate uh defense. 104 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,319 And there's not going to be a defense, because it's 105 00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:10,600 our it's in your dogma. So that that human psychological 106 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:15,879 analogy of mind and and will and the spirit being 107 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,399 will and all the stuff that's that's read up into 108 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,560 the Trinity, that's wrong. And we have to let that go. 109 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,360 And once we do that, and we get back to 110 00:07:25,279 --> 00:07:28,360 what's in the Councils and what's in the Fathers, whose 111 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,959 theology has been confirmed by the Universal Church already in 112 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,519 the first seven slash eight Councils, which deal specifically with 113 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:44,720 Christology and the Triad. I mean those teachings are they're 114 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,040 pretty solid. I mean they line up there, They make sense, 115 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,399 They give balance to what we're what we believe, and 116 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,600 all the deviations, be it filioquism, be it papism, that 117 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,360 you can all trace them back to deviations that relate 118 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:03,040 to Christology or the relationship between God and the world. 119 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,279 So what we're going to talk about now is the 120 00:08:05,319 --> 00:08:08,279 subject matter of Hoffman's book, what is the relationship of 121 00:08:08,279 --> 00:08:14,680 God to the world? And can we look to Plutonis 122 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,120 and Plato and Plethon and all of these Neoplatonic and 123 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,959 Platonic middle Platonic guys who are coming up with their 124 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:30,519 ratio mathematical mysticism as a way to understand God. And 125 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,440 I think that the answer is no. And that's an 126 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,440 emphatic no, because so much of the early Patristic argumentation 127 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,159 when it comes to the nature of God, or the 128 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:46,559 questions of Christology and the natures of Christ and so forth, 129 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:51,600 all those questions are not grounded in obscure neoplatonic arguments. 130 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,559 They're grounded in the Bible. And you'll see that very 131 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,519 clearly when you read through their works, especially somebody like Athanasius, 132 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,240 or if you read Ceri Old Jerusalem, Saint Cerul of Alexandria, 133 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,519 if you read Saint Gregory Palomas a thousand years later, 134 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:09,039 the arguments are consistently Bible, Bible, Bible blah blah Bible 135 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:15,399 and if there's ever a philosophical subtlety or clarification that's 136 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,519 brought in, it's merely for a teaching tool. 137 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: We might use the. 138 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,639 Speaker 3: Term monad, and I believe that if the Church fathers 139 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,960 ever used that term, Like when Athanasius and decent Otis 140 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:32,519 is arguing with about the Arians, he's making fun of 141 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,960 the way that they talk about the monad and then 142 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,440 it being what creates a diad. So they're relying on neoplatonism. 143 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:44,039 When Saint Basil is arguing with heretics, he points out 144 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,919 that the I am the toe on I am being 145 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,000 supposedly that's not a Greek philosophical statement in Exodus. That's 146 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,720 not God is not saying I am super existent essence. 147 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:01,279 I am super existent. He's not saying that. 148 00:10:01,879 --> 00:10:02,799 Speaker 2: He's saying I. 149 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: Am the personal God that has the covenantal relationship with Israel. 150 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: Right. 151 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,879 Speaker 3: So the error has been that when the Church and 152 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,799 different apologists like Origin, we're trying to convert their friends 153 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:19,759 who are very steeped in Greek philosophy, a lot of 154 00:10:19,799 --> 00:10:23,519 times they were speaking the Greek philosophical lingo to try 155 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,440 to have a common ground. Now, I don't think that 156 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,480 that's inherently necessarily always wrong, but it's it's a little 157 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,200 bit dangerous. I mean John does this in John one 158 00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:35,320 one where he talks about the logos, and certainly the 159 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:37,879 corn corny Greek New Testament would have been going out 160 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,600 to people who spoke coin a Greek. 161 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 2: So it's not that it's wrong. 162 00:10:42,159 --> 00:10:45,919 Speaker 3: The terms inherently are wrong, it's rather the context and 163 00:10:46,039 --> 00:10:49,600 what you mean by them. So for example, hoopostasis, the 164 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:55,159 personhood that's spoken of as a you know, characterizing the 165 00:10:55,159 --> 00:10:58,600 Father of the Son and the spirit. This person aspect 166 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:05,000 that is not from Plotinus, is not from the Eneids, 167 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:11,279 it doesn't originate in Greek philosophers and Athens. It comes 168 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,759 out of the New Testament. Right, The New Testament uses 169 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,639 the Greek term hoypostasis, and this was again originating probably 170 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,879 ultimately in the Septuogen, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, 171 00:11:23,919 --> 00:11:27,159 which is generally speaking, what the New Testament writers relied 172 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,120 on was the septuigen. So that's kind of the norm 173 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,320 in the Orthodox Church is generally speaking, is the septuagen 174 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,519 and that terminology. But again, as I've shown in my 175 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:44,759 Logos talk, where we go to Saint John Damascus's exposition 176 00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:46,879 of the Orthodox face. You know, what we see is 177 00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:49,919 that it's clear that the context for these terms and words, 178 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,159 the one right the triad, it's not what Plato meant. 179 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: Okay. 180 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,039 Speaker 3: So again, if you look at the eneids, if you 181 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,559 look at the third in the fifth in neid of Platinis, 182 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,679 you'll see that Platinis makes these arguments of how the 183 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,480 monad and the diad love one another, and then that 184 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:13,639 that love creates this third hypostasis, which is spirit or something. 185 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,799 Now that's obviously clearly what is being said by Augustine 186 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,559 when he tries to make this very new argument for 187 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,919 the philioque and this spirit proceeding from will and being will, 188 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,679 which is again there's no way to make that orthodox 189 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,720 because it's an aryan argument. So all that to say 190 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,159 that Hoffmann's book is another witness another researcher coming to 191 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,480 the conclusions that I came to that many have come 192 00:12:44,519 --> 00:12:49,039 to for the most part, ten years or so ago, 193 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:51,559 when it was really a question of what is the 194 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,720 perennial philosophy? 195 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:53,919 Speaker 2: What is this? 196 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,559 Speaker 3: How does it relate to Neoplatonism, how does it relate 197 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:01,759 to the you know, Jewish mysticism, in the Kabbalah. How 198 00:13:01,759 --> 00:13:07,720 does that relate to the topics of the Renaissance guys 199 00:13:07,799 --> 00:13:14,600 like Marsilio Ficino and Cornelius Agrippa and who else, Johann 200 00:13:14,759 --> 00:13:18,240 Reuchlinn and these different guys who were very interested in 201 00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:24,679 utilizing Kabbalistic structures to try to convert Jews or as 202 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,960 a means by which the Church might be able to 203 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:32,080 improve upon its theology of who Christ is and all 204 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:37,960 this kind of stuff and divine Plato as he's called. Now, this, 205 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,960 as Hoffman correctly argues, has been the dominant trend since 206 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,279 the Renaissance, in the Renaissance papacy. And when you look 207 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,200 no further than the art and architecture of Rome to 208 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:55,000 see that confirmed. And that's ultimately what starts becoming. The 209 00:13:55,039 --> 00:13:59,559 problem is, it's not just philosophers philosophizing, it's also. 210 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: Very weird artworks. 211 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 3: I remember when I was getting really into Rome Catholicism 212 00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:10,320 back in my twenties, I took a tour of the 213 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,600 One of the actually is an episcopal cathedral. 214 00:14:15,039 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: I'm not making this up. You can look it up. 215 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 3: There's an episcopal cathedral in Memphis, and when you go 216 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,159 in there there's a giant blonde hair, blue eye Ariyan Jesus. 217 00:14:26,159 --> 00:14:28,399 I don't know why they made him in an Aryan Jesus, 218 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:33,679 but there's and then he's like facing opposite of a 219 00:14:33,759 --> 00:14:38,919 Michael the Archangel who's holding a scroll with E equals 220 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:42,799 MC squared on it with with Einstein's STICKT. Now, I 221 00:14:42,799 --> 00:14:44,639 did a little research on this guy. I don't remember 222 00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:50,320 his name, but he was very well respected Roman artisan 223 00:14:51,519 --> 00:14:53,440 an artist, and I think he did a lot of 224 00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:56,360 work for Pious the twelve and different popes and whatnot. 225 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,440 He's designed various cathedrals, so in the point, because it's 226 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,960 not just a Episcopalian thing, he's also very important for 227 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,759 all the Roman Catholic cathedrals that he's designed. And then 228 00:15:06,799 --> 00:15:08,240 you start to think, well, now, wait a minute, So 229 00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:12,480 there is actually all this bizarre alchemical imagery and all 230 00:15:12,519 --> 00:15:17,720 these kinds of images that are that populate the cathedrals 231 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:21,600 of Roman Catholicism. Now, why would that be? And that's 232 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,120 what we're going to look at as we get into 233 00:15:23,159 --> 00:15:27,879 this book. It is going to be precisely because the 234 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:36,639 West was not just corrupted through Renaissance and Hermeticism and 235 00:15:36,919 --> 00:15:39,799 all this kind of stuff, from the year, you know, 236 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,720 fifteen hundred on or twelve hundred on. There's a deeper 237 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:49,320 route that is actually the philosophical presuppositions of absolute dune simplicity, 238 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:56,440 of filioquism, of created grace, of the natural immortality of 239 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,360 the soul as opposed to the body. All of these 240 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:02,480 things were already condemned in the chart. The soul is 241 00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:06,559 not naturally immortal. It's what Christ grants to it through 242 00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:08,240 the incarnation, death, buril. 243 00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:08,679 Speaker 2: And resurrection. 244 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 3: That's how we participate in the immortality that God has 245 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:21,399 promised us in the resurrection. And so very very different 246 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,679 doctrines is what I'm trying to point out here, and 247 00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:25,879 so all the more absurd by the way, then for 248 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,799 Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox that try to mesh together 249 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,399 because the theology is not compatible. It's not compatible because 250 00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:41,440 Neoplatonism is not compatible with the Bible, simply put. So, 251 00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:44,279 what I want to do in this talk is get 252 00:16:44,279 --> 00:16:49,320 into Middle and in later Platonism and particularly the character 253 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,600 of Platinus. And Platinus is important because his philosophy is 254 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,720 very influential in the West and it leads to a 255 00:16:56,759 --> 00:17:01,120 whole host of controversies and debates and part relationship to 256 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:06,160 the Christian Church in the first several centuries and then 257 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,839 even into the Middle Ages. The character of Plotinus and 258 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,400 his ineads, first of all, are going to be the 259 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:22,599 most relevant for influencing characters like Augustine. Now, if you 260 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,400 read a book like A City of God, for the 261 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,039 most part, City of God is something that we would consider, 262 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,160 you know, an orthodox book. It does contain several sections 263 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,680 of speculation, but the first half of the book is 264 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,039 Augustine's critique of the pagan world, the City of Man 265 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:44,920 as he calls it, and accurately accurately, So we would 266 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,559 say that the City of Man is flawed precisely because 267 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,119 it all the way back to you know what we 268 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,759 read in Genesis six or Genesis ten and eleven, the 269 00:17:57,799 --> 00:18:02,359 Tower Babbel is basically been trying to erect a culture, 270 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:09,519 a society around the worship of Man slash Idolatry slash 271 00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:14,759 the Devil. And so the idea here is that you know, 272 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,599 all of the pagan empires in the past pretty much, 273 00:18:19,319 --> 00:18:21,960 you know, collapse into that pattern. 274 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,279 Speaker 2: You know, this is the entire experience of Israel as 275 00:18:26,319 --> 00:18:26,680 a nation. 276 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 3: You know, with the Babylonian captivity and the destruction of 277 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,519 the temple. It's the experience of most of mankind throughout 278 00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:40,759 history is to be subjected to some form of pagan 279 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:46,200 human based law that is tyrannical. And so this is 280 00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:52,079 not always totally brutal. You know, there was times where 281 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,079 the empires might provide a lot of peace. 282 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,039 Speaker 2: And so you'll read. 283 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,039 Speaker 3: In sections in Isaiah about Darius, and I excuse me, 284 00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:08,400 about Cyrus and Isaiah and Darius with Daniel and Nebucaneser 285 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:11,400 and so forth. And at times these guys might have 286 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,799 even been converted by the prophets. We don't exactly know, 287 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,680 but we get tints of that, perhaps like with in 288 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:25,240 the Book of Daniel when he interacts with Nebucaneser. But regardless, 289 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,039 for the most part, the pagan empires are a thorn 290 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:33,920 in the side of God's people. And then, certainly for 291 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,039 the first few centuries of Christianity, the Empire is very 292 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,519 virulent on persecuting Christians. But the persecution quote unquote of 293 00:19:42,519 --> 00:19:47,240 the Church and of our theology doesn't always come in. 294 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 2: The form of overt attack through dictators or kings or armies. 295 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 3: It can also come at times through subtle philosophical wranglings 296 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,559 and sophistry, and one of those issues, I think you 297 00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:13,720 could argue is shown. One of those examples is very 298 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:19,119 clearly shown in the example of Platonis. Now, I'm not 299 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,240 saying that Platonus was necessarily Christian, but as we saw 300 00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:27,440 in the talk that I did on the older Greek guys, 301 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:32,200 you know, Heraclitis and Promenides and the Ionians, and then 302 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,200 into Plato and Platonism, we saw a lot of figures 303 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,279 who were perhaps you know, into the Roman period as 304 00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:43,880 it's called the Stoics, who were probably drawing from several 305 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,799 different well springs, maybe even Marcus Aurelius. Some of these 306 00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:53,079 guys were probably influenced in some degree by Christian thought, 307 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,240 early theologians. But even though that's still a little unclear, 308 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,759 we know that there were, you know, dialogues between different 309 00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:06,240 early Church writers, you know, writing letters to different Roman 310 00:21:06,319 --> 00:21:09,440 rulers and so forth, trying to explain that you know, 311 00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:15,200 their position was not anti authoritarian in itself, that it 312 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:17,559 was just based on the law of God, and that 313 00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:21,720 you know, they couldn't in good conscience sacrifice. 314 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: The idols and so forth. 315 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:28,079 Speaker 3: Now that philosophy of Platinus is crucial because it will 316 00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:33,759 present one of the most subtle sort of challenges and 317 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:39,200 will influence some people to move in the direction of Platonism. 318 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,240 If I recall Celsus, one of the guys who Origin 319 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:49,359 was very pathetically trying to debate with the Celsus was 320 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,519 a Neoplatonist, and so you get a lot of that 321 00:21:53,559 --> 00:22:01,640 same tendency of the platonic argumentation, trying to show that 322 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:09,519 Christianity is foolish because it relies on the Old. 323 00:22:09,319 --> 00:22:10,759 Speaker 2: Testament being historical. 324 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 3: And so this is why when Irenaeus writes his big 325 00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:19,599 Treatise against Heresies in I think one eighty or so, 326 00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:25,079 somewhere in there, Iernas is battling a lot of Gnosticism, 327 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:30,079 and so Gnosticism and Platonism, Neoplatonism, these are very very 328 00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:34,160 close cousins. They're very influenced perhaps one another at times, 329 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,880 and so there's not exactly one Neoplatonic thing. 330 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: That you can go to. 331 00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:44,079 Speaker 3: You get Sometimes you get these guys like Iamblicus, who 332 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,279 is more of a ceremonial magi magic magician type guy. 333 00:22:50,279 --> 00:22:53,680 Sometimes you get characters like Platinists, where it's not so 334 00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:58,920 much about ceremonial rituals as it is the individual in 335 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:06,039 his own innernosis, the intuitive spark of the inner divine, 336 00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:08,880 and so forth, and that this is how the soul 337 00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:12,720 ascends into the higher planetary realms and spheres up to 338 00:23:12,759 --> 00:23:15,359 the one as we see, we're going to see. That's 339 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,839 the argumentation of Plotinus, particularly. 340 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,079 Speaker 2: In the Eneiods. 341 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 3: But if you recall, we did many lectures on Plato 342 00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:26,599 and the dialogues and the entirety of the Republic, and 343 00:23:26,759 --> 00:23:30,759 people can go back and listen to those, But the Fiato, 344 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,240 the Thiadrius, Symposium, Timaeus, Republic, these all provide the skeletal 345 00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:41,319 outline for what will influence Plotinus, and what he does 346 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,640 is kind of dispense with all. 347 00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 2: The Socratic dialogue. 348 00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: It says, you know, out with all that stuff, let's 349 00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,759 just have a more direct, almost a sort of a 350 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,160 philo theological treatise. 351 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 2: It's kind of what the Eneids are. It's not really. 352 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,599 Speaker 3: Making a distinction between those two because in plotin in thought, 353 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:06,200 there's not a distinction between the knowledge or nosis that 354 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,720 you gain in philosophy and theology. They're basically the same endeavors, 355 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:21,279 and so by extension, obviously there's no revelation. All experience 356 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,519 of the forms and phenomena are themselves quote revelation, you 357 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:34,720 could say, in plutonium thought. But if we remember, I 358 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,039 think I did do at least an article on the 359 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:42,319 Fayto and then a talk on it, I think, And 360 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,960 I still haven't gotten to the Tomayos yet. I've read 361 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,039 it obviously, but I haven't done an electro on it. 362 00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:50,640 But if we recall that's this sort of Egyptian gnostic 363 00:24:51,319 --> 00:24:57,480 creation cosmogony of Plato is the Tomayis, and it's where 364 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,960 we get a lot of the esoteric symbolism that continue 365 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:02,200 into the Western tradition. You know, the snake and the 366 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,400 egg and the oral bo roast and all that out 367 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,920 of the Tomais. The platonic solids come out of the Tomais. 368 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,240 And then of course we know everything that's in the Republic. 369 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,680 We we did a lecture on each one of the 370 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,720 books of the Republic. 371 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:18,319 Speaker 2: So if we. 372 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,839 Speaker 3: Recall all that, and if we remember the talk that 373 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,039 I did a couple of months ago about the mysteries 374 00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,680 of the early Greeks or something to that, if I 375 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,079 forget exactly what I titled it, but something like that, 376 00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:35,400 where we did a critique of the dialectics of the 377 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,480 Greeks and the one and the many, and that's kind 378 00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:40,039 of what it all boiled down to, was this presupposition 379 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,839 of setting the one in contrast, contrastinction, dialectical tension and 380 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,839 opposition with the mini and vice versa. Now, when you 381 00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:55,200 get to Platinus, as we said, we've dispensed with Socratic 382 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,200 tales and storytelling and myths and and we've kind of 383 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,799 tried to boil it into more of a principled, logical 384 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:14,079 philosophical treatise that is metaphysical. So it's it's a logical, 385 00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:21,119 rational approach to metaphysics, trying to pause it different tiers, 386 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:29,599 structures and levels of reality. So what does he argue, Well, 387 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,720 in these aneads, he is giving this metaphysical structure, and 388 00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,519 we're going to kind of go in summary here. Obviously 389 00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:41,680 it's a fairly long book, so we're not gonna go 390 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:48,119 through every single one, but for four Plotinus, just like Plato, 391 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,720 the soul is divine. The object of life is to 392 00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:54,799 understand how. 393 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 2: We might restore that soul to. 394 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:02,039 Speaker 3: Its original sort of proper place. And you know, the 395 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,720 getting back to the one, the journey back to the monad. Now, 396 00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:12,720 this can only be done by knowing a comprehensive structure 397 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,599 of reality. We have to we have to have a 398 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:22,880 comprehensive knowledge of metaphysics and reality and our place in 399 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,440 the world in order to get to find the map back. 400 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,640 So in many ways the Labyrinth mythology could be could 401 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,839 be looked at as a kind of allegory for this, 402 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,079 you know, the kind of mythology of Minos and the 403 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,119 Labyrinth and so forth. And it's what a lot of 404 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,960 the polatness would do is kind of go back. And 405 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,440 Plotonus does this in the Aeneads. He goes back and 406 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,799 he looks at Homer and he like he reads these 407 00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:56,480 sort of allegorical meanings and to Homer. So you get 408 00:27:55,759 --> 00:28:04,400 a level removed from the grammatico historical. You know, this 409 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,759 god beating up, this god type story, and we're told, oh, 410 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,279 you know, Aros is love, and it's not really about 411 00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:13,839 an actual god. It's an allegory for the principle of 412 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:19,160 love and love not falling into porn ai or porno 413 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,279 or whatever, or erotic lust fixation, but rather that it's 414 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,079 pure chased a lot you get all these kinds of 415 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:34,160 allegorical readings of Homer and Odysseus, which I'm not sure 416 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,000 that that's totally wrong. I think sometimes it's I mean, 417 00:28:38,039 --> 00:28:41,680 it's either just totally clever creativity, but sometimes it does 418 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,799 look like they're making an interesting case that maybe Homer 419 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,680 was actually encoding those stories as allegorical myths. I don't know, 420 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:56,480 but that's debatable regardless, you know, we're not I'm not saying, 421 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,119 by the way, that has anything to do with theology. 422 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,839 I'm just considering a different approach is to Platonism and Homer. 423 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,960 And you know, there's all kinds of millennia of scholars 424 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,440 debating this stuff, so these are not new questions. But 425 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:16,599 with Platinis, we want to stress the dissimilarity to Christianity. 426 00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:21,599 And again, it's entirely possible that Plotinus heard, you know, 427 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,559 Christian philosophers, Christian theologians, you know, speaking about things, right 428 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:29,400 he maybe he read some of them, maybe he read Origin, 429 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,640 who knows, and you know, he could have borrowed a 430 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:43,039 lot of their terminology and concepts. So could Plutonian ideology 431 00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:45,359 be a corruption of Christianity? 432 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: Of that's possible. 433 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:50,839 Speaker 3: Now, I say that because nobody will entertain the thesis 434 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,079 that I consider very viable that when we look at 435 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,920 the her structure of the theology of Egypt or any 436 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,200 of those ancient empires. 437 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 2: So let's let's use Egypt. So we go back to Egypt, and. 438 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 3: You know that one of the things that does distinguish 439 00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:18,000 Egyptian fought from Greek hermeticism is the bodily resurrection. So 440 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:21,440 at a certain point in Egypt's history they appeared to 441 00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:24,839 have adopted some kind of monotheism and a belief in 442 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,599 the resurrection. I'm not saying that their views weren't totally corrupted, 443 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:32,839 but what's interesting is, well, where do they get that idea. Well, 444 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,720 the liberal scholarship will say, well, this was like some 445 00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:42,640 old form of monotheism, and you know, then this degenerated 446 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:49,079 into paganism or polytheism or something like that, and which 447 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,480 is not our view. It's not the view of a 448 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:55,960 biblical inspiration, it's not orthodox theology. We would say, what's 449 00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:00,240 more likely is that when Joseph was in Egypt, he 450 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:05,799 influenced Egyptian theology. I mean, he has the ear of Pharaoh. 451 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:11,160 That's every bit as possible in my view as well. Actually, 452 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,519 I think that's way more possible and likely than the 453 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,119 hier critical liberal narrative of. 454 00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:19,279 Speaker 2: Why Egypt. 455 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 3: Had theological changes that it did. But regardless, the structure 456 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:31,519 of the Egyptian Hermetica and so forth is basically the 457 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:38,839 kind of architecture that you get in Platonis. So Platonius 458 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,079 goes on and again, if you read the Hermerica, you 459 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,880 see that similarity very clearly. Whenever that her Medica is 460 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,640 from who knows is it really Egyptian? I guess that's 461 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,759 debated too, but whatever. 462 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: Is likely Egyptian. 463 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:57,279 Speaker 3: You know, again, with the body resurrection stuff, that is 464 00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:00,200 a dissimilarity to Platonis. We're not going to have any 465 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,599 kind of body resurrection with Platonics. So in this philosophy 466 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:08,480 there's no access to to the divine through any kind 467 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:15,160 of special revelation. So plutonium philosophy, Platonic philosophy, excludes revelation. 468 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:22,400 And that's because all nosis, all knowledge, is ultimately of 469 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,599 the forms. Now, we might be duped by the phantasms 470 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:30,720 and the material world and think that we're only understanding 471 00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:34,839 you know, base matter and so forth, as they would argue, 472 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,039 but in reality, what we need to do is purify 473 00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:43,480 ourselves and then the soul, you know, the mind. Soul 474 00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:46,440 and mind are kind of interestingly linked here, which will 475 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,480 become another normative view in the West, the body soul dichotomy, 476 00:32:52,599 --> 00:32:57,759 where intellect and soul almost become interchangeable. So in Plotinus, 477 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:04,079 that is the so called reality that we have to accept. 478 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,279 Once we kind of are initiated into this, you know, 479 00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:11,799 Plato type stuff, then what happens is you'll realize that 480 00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:16,200 philosophy is the real guide to life, not any kind 481 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,000 of special revelation from spirits or gods, and philosophy will 482 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:25,799 give you the complete account of reality, and in doing 483 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,960 so it becomes the guide to life, and that life 484 00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:37,559 is a signpost. It's a labyrinth maze pointing us to 485 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,359 going beyond this sensible visible world. So to know that 486 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,839 reality very much in the same way as Plato, there 487 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,799 is a need to purify oneself, to work to attain 488 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:58,759 virtue and not It's not to be fair to plotonis 489 00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:01,319 he's not saying that, Oh, it's just mental Like you 490 00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:03,440 just sit there and contemplate as hard as you can 491 00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:06,440 on the nature of being or something, and your soul 492 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:10,639 will ascend into the heights. You also have to practice 493 00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,840 other ideas of Greek platonic virtue. I guess you know, 494 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,320 you have to understand aesthetics, and you have to know 495 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,599 the good and know justice and all this kind of 496 00:34:20,599 --> 00:34:24,079 stuff that we talked about in the Platonic lectures that 497 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:29,760 I did. And so in doing all that, the soul 498 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:38,519 is then prepared for its progressive journey into up into 499 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:45,440 the One. So well, how then do we live properly 500 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:50,559 in this view? What's the ethics here? Well, it starts 501 00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:56,679 with again dialectics as we saw of Plato, and the assumption, 502 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,559 the presupposition. The starting point of this system is that 503 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:05,320 there is one monad blob unifying principle, a concrete, absolute, 504 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:13,159 metaphysical principle, and it is beyond being, as it's called 505 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:19,639 many times in these writers. Now, the beyond being is 506 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,360 not in any way conceptual. It's not in any way tangible, 507 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:24,840 it's not in any way knowable. 508 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,880 Speaker 2: It's ineffable. It's not a god. 509 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,559 Speaker 3: It's beyond the conception of God or any notion of God. 510 00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:33,000 It's not personal. 511 00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:34,039 Speaker 2: It's beyond all that. 512 00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 3: And this one, the supreme principle, we might say, is 513 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,159 in some way like mind, which is interesting because how 514 00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:54,159 can it be beyond being if it's supreme mind. But 515 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,440 maybe to be fair, he thought that he could overcome 516 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,000 dialectics in that way somehow, I don't know. But the 517 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,719 unity that we seek, right, we are fragmented. 518 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: We have the multiplicity of. 519 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,880 Speaker 3: Experiences, we experience things through beginning middle end. There's change, 520 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:21,280 there's alteration that in the system is the problem. So 521 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,440 the fact that there's multiplicity, the fact that there's many 522 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,079 objects of our experience that we change from day to day, 523 00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:30,519 and we feel one way, we feel another way, that's 524 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:34,400 all the problem. And you see the greade one, the 525 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,360 great monad. It's not like that. And if we could 526 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,920 only be like that, then we wouldn't have all the 527 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,840 problems we have. And so all of the forms, the 528 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,719 platonic forms in the world that are standing behind the 529 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:58,000 phenomenal reality that we experience, even the forms still exhibit 530 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:05,199 some kind of distinction and duality and opposition. And therefore, 531 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:14,480 since they're not an ultimate unity above mind, so to speak, 532 00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,920 is this ineffable one. So it's almost like it's kind 533 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,559 of like there's gradations. I should have made that a 534 00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:23,280 little bit clearer minute to go. Excuse me, Mind is 535 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:30,719 actually a step below the one. So even mind is 536 00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:35,559 conceptual and is in some way an analogy between like 537 00:37:35,559 --> 00:37:38,199 the human mind and some sort of and you know, 538 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,519 the divine mind. But okay, let me have to make 539 00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:45,880 it clear. Plotinus is saying that the moment add the 540 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,719 one is even beyond that. So that's actually technically what 541 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:57,960 the ineffable beyond being is. So my mind and above 542 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,920 the mind and above forms, what you're in, that mind 543 00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:06,760 is the one. Now Plato will follow Platinus as one 544 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,360 again in saying that it is beyond a being and 545 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,239 totally apathetic. That is, nothing can be said of it 546 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:19,400 in any positive way or known about it. And you 547 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,800 can't even say that it quote exists, because whatever kind 548 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:26,840 of existence that the monad has, it bears no relation 549 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:38,480 or similarity to anything in our experience. So when he 550 00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:46,000 calls it the good, it's very similar to what Plato says, 551 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,679 in that the form of the good is above all 552 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,400 the other forms and is beyond being. 553 00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:54,039 Speaker 2: So ultimate reality is the one. 554 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 3: Maybe in some way goodness is closer of an approximation, 555 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,679 but even still you can't predicate goodness of the One, 556 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,880 because it's beyond being, beyond all conceptuality. If we were 557 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,760 to give a name to the one, it would be 558 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,360 the good, he says. So back to Promenides, in the 559 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,960 old lecture, there was a notion of this kind of 560 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,639 monad unity, and that's kind of what a lot of 561 00:39:20,679 --> 00:39:23,360 the ancient Ionians. 562 00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:23,199 Speaker 2: And so forth. 563 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:29,559 Speaker 3: What they were seeking was some grand unifying principle, but 564 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:31,960 they always wanted to make it impersonal. And of course 565 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,760 that's the same thing that Platonis is doing. So unqualified oneness, 566 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:43,480 absolute divine simplicity is the one. Now from this one 567 00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:49,199 descend various emanations and degrees of reality that as you 568 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:53,480 go down the tree of reality, so to speak, there 569 00:39:53,639 --> 00:39:57,679 is less and less unity and thus less and less reality. 570 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,920 So this scale of being comes into play here, the 571 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,280 Greek scale of being, which will be very influential in 572 00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:13,519 the medieval Christian West, especially when you read the Scholastics 573 00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:17,000 and all of this speculation about the chain of being 574 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:20,800 and all this stuff. It continues on for a long 575 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,280 long time. Now, that's not to say that every single 576 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,679 aspect of metaphysics or medieval metaphysics about being is necessarily wrong. 577 00:40:31,159 --> 00:40:36,000 I'm just speaking of general trends here. So in these 578 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,440 degrees of reality or emanations from the one. Again, as 579 00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:45,880 we move further away from the One, there is a 580 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:53,000 noticeable differentiation in particularization that leads to less and less 581 00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:56,519 unity and less and less reality. So as we move 582 00:40:56,559 --> 00:41:02,960 down from the One, we lose that super essence and 583 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,440 we fade towards non being. Now, the One is said 584 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,320 to overflow in this way as a kind of emanation 585 00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:16,119 in these descending levels, all the way down to the 586 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,199 physical universe, which is kind of at the bottom of 587 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:26,599 this this scheme, this pyramid here, and these these emanations 588 00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:29,760 are kind of like the sun. So we can look 589 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,960 at the light of the sun and it's and maybe 590 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,039 it fades away as it. 591 00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:35,519 Speaker 2: Gets further or something like that. 592 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 3: And the further away you are, you know, the weaker 593 00:41:39,519 --> 00:41:46,039 the power and heat of the Sun would be. So thus, 594 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:49,440 in order and in structure, we can say the fabric 595 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,960 of this thing, the universe is unchanging, and it's it 596 00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:57,400 is static, but it is alive, so it's not dead matter. 597 00:41:58,559 --> 00:41:59,519 Speaker 2: It's full of life. 598 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:05,800 Speaker 3: There is a cyclical celestial sphere dance that the universe 599 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:11,440 does in an orbital pattern around the one, around the monad. 600 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:17,719 This will be again very similar to all the traditions 601 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,960 of the celestial spheres and Neoplatonism, and even. 602 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,280 Speaker 2: In Aristotle talks about the celestial. 603 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 3: Spheres and how all the spheres move in a circle 604 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,599 around the monad. 605 00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:31,079 Speaker 2: And so. 606 00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 3: At the highest level, the fullest sense of the good 607 00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:44,840 there is pure act. It is self contained thought, thinking itself, 608 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,639 even perhaps the way that Aristotle characterized his quote unquote God, 609 00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:52,000 which is not the God of the Bible, thought thinking itself, 610 00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:55,320 total complete contemplation. 611 00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:02,519 Speaker 2: And stasis. There's no change, no alteration, no movement. 612 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 3: And so the life of the here and the now, 613 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,000 the physical level that we experience, these are faint images 614 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,559 precisely because they change and are therefore some in some 615 00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:22,280 way lesser than the static, perfect super beyond essence essence. 616 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,760 Now this again, this obviously will be rejected in our theology, 617 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:34,280 because change, alteration is not in itself bad. Time isn't 618 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,679 inherently evil, there's no there's nothing wrong with any kind 619 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,599 of there's no dialectic at work here. And Saint Gregor 620 00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:45,679 of Nissa is very good in refuting the heretics who 621 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,639 argue this, particularly the Platonists, this kind of stuff where 622 00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:52,719 we don't do that, we don't say that right, because 623 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,400 if once we say that, it's impossible for there to 624 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,400 be an incarnation. Right, the Highest Good could in no 625 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:04,079 way incarnate because it's absolutely in dialectical tension with time 626 00:44:04,159 --> 00:44:09,679 and change in space. That's again why we're not Platonists. 627 00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:15,800 Neoplatonism would exclude the possibility of an incarnation. So there's 628 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,960 a flow within the universe which consists of a downward 629 00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:24,559 movement from the One, but some of these beings, particularly Man, 630 00:44:26,039 --> 00:44:31,000 has the ability to also have an upward movement back 631 00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:36,320 towards the One. Now, how is that going to happen? Well, 632 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:43,199 Platinus is going to construct this elaborate superstructure of metaphysics 633 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,159 to where there are three hypostaces or persons. Now you 634 00:44:47,199 --> 00:44:49,760 might say, well, wait a minute, did the Christian Church 635 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,719 rip off Platinus? No hypostasis. It comes from the subtu agent, 636 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,559 the Greek translation of the Old Testament, and it comes 637 00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:59,280 from the New Testament texts. 638 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 2: So epistasis was used. 639 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:06,960 Speaker 3: In our revelation prior to the coming of Platonis on 640 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:17,119 the scene. Now, individual substances that make up the intelligible 641 00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:22,119 universe are three, the one and mind and soul. So 642 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,800 this is the triad of Platonis, One, Mind and Soul, Mind, 643 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,760 will emanate outward from the One, and it has it's 644 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,320 automatic and it has the potential itself to know. So 645 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,000 you have this ineffable beyond being one, the monad, and 646 00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:47,159 it emanates outwardly a lesser entity called mind. 647 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 2: And then. 648 00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:57,119 Speaker 3: By this act of contemplation, the world of forms arises. 649 00:45:58,199 --> 00:46:02,599 So the mind that's that springs forth from the One. 650 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,880 We could think this is very similar to the story 651 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,519 of Athena and Zeus. Right, it doesn't Athena spring from 652 00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:16,599 the head of Zeus. This, this thought form world is 653 00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:22,039 the result of this first emanation. Now, so when this happens, 654 00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:25,559 mind wants to be united to the One from from 655 00:46:25,639 --> 00:46:30,360 whence it emanated or radiated. And so the world of forms, 656 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:35,400 the ideals that are generated by mind, is the way 657 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,719 that the One or the good is known by mind. 658 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,559 Speaker 2: So again it's. 659 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 3: Very bizarre, but so it comes out from the one 660 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,559 mind quote unquote, and mind wants to know its origin, 661 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,360 the One, the mon Ad, and so it thinks about 662 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,480 the forms, and in those forms it contemplates the One. 663 00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,440 By the way, this is some almost exactly the way 664 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,000 that a quant talks about knowing the essence of God 665 00:47:03,039 --> 00:47:06,719 and the archetypes and the essence of God. This absolute 666 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,480 unity is known at the level of mind through the 667 00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:16,760 multiplicity of forms. Of course, I don't know how that's 668 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,400 supposed to happen, But the forms then have this high 669 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:26,639 degree of unity, and mind, when it knows these objects, 670 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:31,960 it becomes like it. So mind is its own thoughts, thought, 671 00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:37,199 thinking itself right Aristotle, However, that isn't the absolute level 672 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,039 of unity, as we saw that was the one. The 673 00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:45,000 forms only represent the monad or the One at the 674 00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:50,440 level of the contemplative mind. So mind or noose thus 675 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:56,320 timelessly emanates or radiates from the One as a potency 676 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,320 or ability to know, and thus timelessly mind actually knows 677 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:07,320 the One as the multiplicity of forms. Very bizarre, by 678 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:12,039 the way, is in no way the orthodox theology of 679 00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:15,960 the trinity. For one, when you can see this replicated 680 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,960 in the debates that Athanasius has. 681 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:18,800 Speaker 2: With the Aryans. 682 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 3: Because the Arians have all of these same Plutonian presubpositions, 683 00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:29,920 as Origin would earlier than them, Origin borrow, borrowing all 684 00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,519 this theology would try to say the same stuff. He 685 00:48:32,519 --> 00:48:35,519 would try to say, well, I guess the son being 686 00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:38,079 the second emanation is in some way a kind of 687 00:48:38,159 --> 00:48:42,599 lesser being, and that's what the Church had for, you know, 688 00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:48,320 a damn goodwhile have to combat this presubposition. And when 689 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:52,559 Athenasius fights with it, he says, there's no dialectical tensions 690 00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:57,679 in God. There's nothing dialectically in opposition. By saying that 691 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:02,639 the Father eternally generates the Son, you can have those 692 00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:06,840 two things be true, and the Father and the Son 693 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:13,039 not be in any kind of lesser greater ontological distinction. Now, 694 00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:17,559 the Father, we believe, is the archae or prime principle 695 00:49:17,639 --> 00:49:21,039 of the Trinity. He's the beginning and source of the Godhead, 696 00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:26,000 the fountain of deity. But the fact that there's a 697 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,400 logical distinction St. Basil says between the Father, the Son, 698 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,039 and the Spirit, or an ordinal distinction in that the 699 00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:35,920 Father is prima in patres. 700 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 2: So you know, kind of. 701 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 3: Collegiality so to speak, does not mean that there's less dignity, honor, deity, 702 00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:47,320 et cetera, or glory for the Son or for the 703 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:52,199 Holy Spirit. That is at least the rallying cry for 704 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,639 the first several centuries battling the Arians. But I want 705 00:49:56,639 --> 00:50:00,159 you to notice, and this is something that has been 706 00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:04,000 pointed out by different orthodox theologians is the similarity between 707 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,800 the plutonium starting point and presubsition of what the one 708 00:50:09,159 --> 00:50:12,039 or the monad or God quote unquote is and that 709 00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:16,320 of the Arians. And by the way Eunomius, when Eunomius 710 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,119 has his version of Arianism that he argues with Saint 711 00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:23,280 Gregor of Nissa, Saint Gregory responds by all the things 712 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,320 that I'm saying to him that you're hearing me say 713 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,960 in a response to Platinus. So what is then the 714 00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:39,800 third emanation? So one in mine also contemplate their distinction. 715 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,760 And because it is discursive thought, and it's a thought 716 00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:51,320 process that has successive thoughts rather than being intuitive, Mind's 717 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,719 contemplation or thought is intuitive. So this is the highest level, 718 00:50:57,639 --> 00:51:04,639 and therefore to have a lower level, the springing fourth 719 00:51:05,079 --> 00:51:08,280 of the third of the triad can't in any. 720 00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:16,199 Speaker 2: Way be natural. It has to be or what's the 721 00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:17,039 word I'm looking for. 722 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,320 Speaker 3: It happens discursively, that is, it happens by reasoning process. 723 00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,880 So mind thinks about all these forms, and it thinks 724 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,920 about its relationship to the One, and this gives birth 725 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,639 to soul, and soul is then a lower level of 726 00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:39,320 emanation and reality from mind So what's the triad here? 727 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:46,559 One mind and soul monad diad triad. Now, the soul 728 00:51:46,679 --> 00:51:50,639 is the cause of everything in the sensible world, and 729 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,360 it represents the intelligible world to the sense world. So 730 00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:59,519 the mediator between mind and sense is soul. And then 731 00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:03,360 once you ascend from soul to mind, you have to 732 00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:11,280 ascend from mind to monad to one. Although although it's 733 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:16,400 distinct from mind, the top levels of soul touch the 734 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:20,519 realm of mind, let's see. So it's the bridge, and 735 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,079 with mind it can rise to self, transcendence and unity 736 00:52:25,159 --> 00:52:29,800 with the one. So you have to climb the ladder 737 00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:36,400 of the emanations. So these three hypostases are distinct, and 738 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,639 they are hierarchically arranged, but they're not totally cut off. 739 00:52:41,519 --> 00:52:45,239 So again faint images of the idea of the trinity here, 740 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,119 But the trinity has just been replaced with these different 741 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,760 intellectual concepts and weird ideas of thought, thinking itself and 742 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,360 so forth. And so the one in the mind are 743 00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:03,280 always present to the soul. And because the emanations are 744 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:07,440 lower than the starting point, they have to in some 745 00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,400 way be in movement and particular. 746 00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,400 Speaker 2: So the life of mind itself is pure stasis. And 747 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,440 arrest the soul. 748 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:24,320 Speaker 3: Like the mind desires to know and be itself, so 749 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:30,880 there's a succession to its awareness to know a continuous 750 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,280 series of thoughts then, and so it cannot grasp truth 751 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,039 all at once like mind can. And the soul is 752 00:53:39,079 --> 00:53:42,679 the logos of the mind. It is an expression or 753 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,280 direct image or representation of a higher level of reality 754 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,760 to a lower level. So here we have a misuse 755 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,400 of co opting of the idea of logos, where it 756 00:53:53,400 --> 00:54:02,400 turns into a mystical magical mediator between grades of reality that, 757 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,920 as we said, are just are different. 758 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,800 Speaker 2: So this is a. 759 00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:18,079 Speaker 3: What's the word I'm looking for? Is this a trinity? 760 00:54:18,119 --> 00:54:20,440 It is a kind of trinity, but it's not a 761 00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:26,079 trinity like we teach. In this trinity, the levels are 762 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,599 lesser and greater, and we don't believe that there's no 763 00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:37,480 chain of being in God. So reality becomes an unfolding 764 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,840 process from the top down, from maximum supreme unity down 765 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:50,039 into a total differentiation in particularity multiplicity. And as we 766 00:54:50,119 --> 00:54:53,639 descend down the chain of being, you come to non being. 767 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:58,360 The closer that you move towards a way, excuse me, 768 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,599 the further that you move away from the one the monad. 769 00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:05,639 You're just like shooting yourself towards non existence and non being, 770 00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,039 So the good the monad. You've been listening to the 771 00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:15,440 first half of my talk on Plotinus and the Eneids 772 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,119 and deconstructing them as well as pointing out the hermetic 773 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,880 influence that would come to be in the West. If 774 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:24,880 you want to hear the rest of this talk, then 775 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,519 you can subscribe at Jay's Analysis for four ninety five 776 00:55:27,559 --> 00:55:29,519 a month or for sixty dollars a year. Thank you 777 00:55:29,559 --> 00:55:30,079 for listening.