WEBVTT 1 00:00:27.719 --> 00:00:28.480 Did I get it. 2 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:38.920 From anybody out there? Welcome back to Calling All Beings. 3 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:40.200 I'm your host DJ. 4 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:43.079 And I'm your co host Boston Bia. 5 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:48.000 And this is Calling All Beings TCU True Crime Unsolved 6 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.679 And guess what now that Karen reads freed? Who were 7 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:52.640 you gonna talk about tonight? 8 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.520 I'm sorry, we're gonna talk about Sandra Burchmore? 9 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:02.640 Sorry about that? Wow? Okay, all right, rough start to 10 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:04.400 the night here. All right. 11 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.719 I do not know where I would like because I 12 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.719 know Tricia can hear me. If you would please text 13 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:18.519 Suzanne Cleveland and find out where she be because she 14 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.959 is not Yeah, yeah, not good. 15 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:24.640 Do y'all have her number? 16 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:25.359 Yeah? 17 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:26.159 I can call her. 18 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:27.840 Yeah, if you would go and call her. And I'm 19 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:32.000 going to bring on our first guest right here. I 20 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.959 don't know if I'm supposed to say her last name, 21 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:36.640 so I'll just say her first name. I got to 22 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:42.000 have the fortune of meeting her at a Andrew Birchmore 23 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.359 stand out and she's one of the stalwarts, and she's 24 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:49.599 now doing her advocacy on her own, as is Suzanne, 25 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.680 and I've wanted to talk to her for a while 26 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.560 and get her insights and thoughts about the case, as 27 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.239 well as Suzanne, who's been on several times. So without 28 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:08.400 further a yeah, people put the mans together for Tricia. 29 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:14.360 Hello, Hello, welcome Tricia Mark. 30 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:16.479 Hello, thank you for having me. 31 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:18.840 It's a pleasure to have you. You have some of 32 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:21.960 the coolest I wear in the entire community. 33 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:24.439 I hear that from many that say that, thank you. 34 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:28.000 That's fair to say. I think that that's fair and inappropriate. 35 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:31.360 So well, are you are you making a phone call? 36 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:35.280 I did. I called to voicemail. 37 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.960 Let me she is you know, she is a person 38 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:39.479 who is late. 39 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:46.080 Okay, yeah, no like Phil Collins, no reply at all. 40 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:49.680 All right, we'll say. 41 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:52.439 To people right to but yeah, let's say hi to 42 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:53.280 everyone while she. 43 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:55.879 I'll send you the link right now. That's the way 44 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:57.319 I went. And so she can't get on it. I'm 45 00:02:57.319 --> 00:02:58.159 gonna send her the link. 46 00:02:58.360 --> 00:02:59.919 I just sent it to her on herself. 47 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:02.080 She just sent it on your text. 48 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:07.280 Yeah I did. Yeah, okay, yeah, tell her it's from. 49 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:08.960 DJ It's in your text Chuck Yard. 50 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.199 Yeah, is there another I can email it. 51 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.919 I can send it again. How about I'm sending it. 52 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:17.960 She needs it in our email? 53 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:25.159 Okay, does she have a laptop, because that's where because 54 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:26.080 then it could be an X. 55 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.080 All right, here, she's going to send it to herself. 56 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:28.639 She'll be right on. 57 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:35.039 Okay, awesome, that's good news. All right. Oh man, that's right. 58 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.879 This somebody there's that fellow Paul Ryan trying to get 59 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:43.360 a hold of me about the about what is this? If? 60 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.759 What is that? Okay? 61 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:47.280 Uh, Paul Ryan trying to get a hold of me 62 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:49.039 about Sandra Burch. I'm gonna have to get a hold 63 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:49.360 of him. 64 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:49.919 Uh. 65 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:52.639 In the meantime, Hello, aka the cat Lady, thank you 66 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:53.360 for modding. 67 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:54.319 Uh. 68 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:58.360 This is somebody here. So that's the cat Lady. She 69 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.479 is one of our mods. And this young lady does 70 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:07.919 anybody know her? Yeah? Well of course, yeah. 71 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.599 There she is your homie, your bestie, except for when 72 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:14.159 Joanne is there, right, and Joanna's. 73 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:15.560 In the house, So listen, be careful. 74 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:17.560 I got two best all right, Yeah, so there's two. 75 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:21.040 Just to be clear, there's two besties. 76 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.040 All right. Uh, where's Joanna? Where's shit? 77 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:25.920 I just saw her? 78 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.160 Oh okay, Oh look who's here? 79 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:29.240 Yes? 80 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:34.879 Hell from Deem College, twenty nine years on the board 81 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:35.439 of trustees. 82 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:41.040 Terry Robbins's here, and I love Terry. She's amazing. So 83 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.800 much was this lady right here? 84 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:44.040 Oh? 85 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.120 Look who's here? All right? All right, hello val hell La. 86 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.800 This is the official attorney of calling all beings val 87 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:52.360 Hella law Or. 88 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:54.839 She says it better than I do, but you get it. 89 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:55.240 You get it. 90 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.240 Something to do with Valhalla Vikings and retired Massachusetts lawyer. 91 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:01.600 But right now, let us. 92 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.639 Welcome in your homegirl, right there, your partner in crime 93 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:05.759 doing this damn thing. 94 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:21.759 Party people put him together for Susan Cleveland. Welcome, Suzanne. 95 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:25.600 Hi, guys, Soria. I came in a little hot and late. 96 00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:27.000 That's okay. 97 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.480 So we've got ac problems here, so watch me sweat. 98 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:31.759 That's a big problem. 99 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:33.480 That is a big problem because I heard it's been 100 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:39.399 hot in Massachusetts. So everybody welcome. Coco is here. Let 101 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:40.920 me just see who else we got to say, Oh, 102 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:44.439 lady Zelda Kelly. We oh my goodness, we still got 103 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.439 to work with her on a day to be on 104 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:50.519 her show. So I will message you tonight, Lady Zelda. 105 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:56.319 Hey, darling, you are there. You I'm not, So we 106 00:05:56.439 --> 00:05:57.360 got that out of the way. 107 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:57.959 Uh. 108 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.360 Trisha's like, why is DJ doing this act? Since he 109 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:05.519 sounds really silly? And there's Joanna soon now I know. Hi, 110 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:09.000 Joanna and Marie the other is that your other bestie? 111 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:13.079 Yeah, Joanna and Lulu Bell are my besties. 112 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:18.720 There we go and there's money. Yeah, all right, all right, 113 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.040 so we're in Gene. Hi, welcome, and now let's get 114 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:25.240 this damn thing going. So I thought I would you know, 115 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:27.480 let's just pretend we just got to. 116 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.600 The dive bar and we've just ordered. Before your meal 117 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.600 gets here, you want some as they say in Ingland, 118 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:37.439 do you want a stata before your meal gets it? 119 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:41.079 You want a stata. So that's what they call appetizers. 120 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:44.319 So I thought, as an appetizer, we would start off 121 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:45.800 with that and then we're gonna let you guys just 122 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.279 kind of freewheel however you want to go, which is 123 00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:53.680 exactly how Suzanne likes it free wheeling. So with that, 124 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.800 so I ordered these zucchini sticks with the ranch, just 125 00:06:57.839 --> 00:06:59.639 in case you're wondering the appetizer order. 126 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:04.879 So the latest thing is. 127 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:08.000 That can you please detail and talk about the fact 128 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:13.800 that someone in the FBI or Department of Justice illuminated 129 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:17.839 that the fetus that Sandra was pregnant with was not, 130 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:19.839 in fact Matt Farwell's baby. 131 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:22.839 So you want me to take this one. 132 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.920 Any any one of you can start, both of you 133 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:26.680 get shot. 134 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:34.800 Yeah, okay. So it's interesting how you say that, you know, 135 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.519 we were we became aware of that factoid through either 136 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.000 the do o J or FBI, because it's anonymous source, right, 137 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.759 But interesting how some of the facts have come our way. 138 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.759 That one. It's on the surface. I mean, it is 139 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:59.560 a bombshell. It is a bombshell. It doesn't at all 140 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.120 take any thing from the fact that Matthew Farwell did 141 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.920 it allegedly. I guess we'll see how the case plays out, 142 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:13.839 but obviously Matthew Farrewell is still a number one monster, 143 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.160 and the issue of the baby's DNA not matching with 144 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:26.079 Matthew Farrewell is at least in my opinion, it's more 145 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.079 about the fact that that means there's more there's more 146 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:35.120 than one monster here. We kind of know that, but 147 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.559 to what to what extent? I mean, we're not going 148 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.360 to find out with relative ease, you know who who 149 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:50.320 the possible father of the baby is or was, because 150 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.159 it was a big deal to get the DNA in 151 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:59.080 the first place from Matthew Farrewell. And my understanding is 152 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:07.799 that it eliminates his brother too. And we know who 153 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:12.440 a couple of the other abusers of Sandra, you know, 154 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:16.159 were there's They're still alive, they're still here, and there 155 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:21.159 hasn't been any any real accountability or responsibility handed to 156 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:24.320 them yet. I say yet, because I'm so hopeful that 157 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.919 others will be punished. But it doesn't the DNA, I 158 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.480 don't want to say, it doesn't matter. It doesn't change 159 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.519 the fact that Matthew Farwell he did what he did 160 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.639 and needs to go down in every way, shape and form. 161 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.960 And those who are saying, well, he killed her for 162 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.440 no reason, or he killed her for nothing, then. 163 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.639 He killed her to silence her, No, I'm saying he 164 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.240 will think he killed her for nothing. 165 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:56.960 He oh, no, no, no, I understand. I'm saying that you 166 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:01.279 know the idea that you know you did that, and 167 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.159 he must be racking his brain thinking, I can't believe 168 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:08.120 I did that for no reason. I mean, we can't 169 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:10.480 really get into the mind of a killer on that 170 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:15.279 level anyway, So let's not even try. But the the 171 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.919 moving towards silencing and you know, putting an end to 172 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.840 I guess the alleged trouble that that Sandro was causing 173 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:29.960 by by trying to develop any sense of agency and 174 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.559 independence during her her final months on this earth. It's 175 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:40.360 that's what it's about. It was about ending her her agency, 176 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:43.799 her her free her her strength, her voice. It was 177 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.759 it was way more about that than it was about, 178 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:51.279 sadly than it was about a baby or the you know, 179 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:54.360 the presence of a baby. And and she should be 180 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.440 here to have had the chance to to have a 181 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.879 life and and figure out how a function in a 182 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:02.559 world that was not very kind. 183 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:07.320 To her, right, Yeah, and that that also could be 184 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.080 a topic of discussion. 185 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.519 But what were your thoughts on that, Trish? What what 186 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:16.639 was your sort of reaction when you heard that. 187 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.759 I guess as it's an unsourced it's not source that 188 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:23.559 that he wasn't in fact the father. 189 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.440 Yeah, it didn't weigh much for me. 190 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:31.000 I don't really think it it mattered. 191 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:36.039 Okay, interesting, very It was interesting because you know, for 192 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:41.279 us it was very illuminating because we thought for sure 193 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:44.440 that he he was the dad, and that that was 194 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:48.159 his motivation, his primary vote. I don't think he would 195 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.240 have ended her life were he not the dead at 196 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:53.720 least if he thought that. 197 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.440 He wasn't the dad. I don't think he would have 198 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.240 her life. And so from that standpoint, I, oh, look 199 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:05.000 who's here? The legend? Oh I Jen Ruth, what's up? Yes, 200 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:08.000 another legend. And there's so many legends in here. Look 201 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:08.200 at this. 202 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:14.320 We got Leanbravo and Dennis and Terry, Coco, Lulubell, Joanna. 203 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:15.840 I mean, there's just talks of you in here. 204 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:17.399 They're all here the hole. 205 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:22.799 Yeah, Boston, Brandy's here. What's the holmes and roths? Right? 206 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:24.519 And great support out there? 207 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:25.919 We do we do? 208 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:27.120 All? 209 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.480 Right? Then there was one other thing that I was 210 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.919 going to ask you guys that Kate just popped into 211 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.639 my head today. Oh, how how do we know when 212 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:37.639 the first time? 213 00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:40.600 Was it something that she told a family member that 214 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:44.919 Sandra was actually taken advantage of by one of these officers? 215 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.039 What that we know that it was like fifteen as 216 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:51.519 opposed to fourteen or sixteen, Not that it matters, but 217 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:53.679 just I'm curious, how where did that? 218 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:55.840 What's the source on that information? 219 00:12:59.360 --> 00:13:01.000 I'm going to I'm going to jump in with that. 220 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:06.960 I don't so we don't necessarily know outside of the 221 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:12.960 very full throttle investigation that the FBI did and going 222 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:18.679 in the wayback machine and you know, calling through the 223 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:23.559 messaging and the conversations that she was having, which were 224 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.480 really distressing conversations mind you, that she was having with 225 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:34.200 Matthew Farwell, you know, going down memory lane and sort 226 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.919 of I don't know if it was in an enticement 227 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.320 or it was just sort of how they communicated regularly. 228 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:45.879 But it was in twenty twenty that she was referring 229 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:52.919 to those those dates and having a really thorough discussion 230 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:57.679 about them, which was disturbing. I don't think that there 231 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:01.080 was anything that came out about discussing with a family 232 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.639 member other than you know, she talked to her family 233 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:05.480 members about what was going on in her life and 234 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:10.039 her romantic interests and and and that she had a 235 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.000 relationship with the police officer and that it was complicated, 236 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:19.840 and that he was married, and and and that she 237 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:23.399 was hoping, you know, that maybe there was a chance 238 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.840 that they could be together in the future if if 239 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.519 his marriage didn't you know, work out. But no, there 240 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:32.279 wasn't really a you know, can we point to this 241 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.600 origin other than you know, her not being alive in 242 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:41.960 them having to do an investigation that that covered a 243 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.200 lot of written material as well as messaging that referred 244 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.759 to the dates and the onset of the relationship. So 245 00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:51.960 there's there's a lot of layers to how they came 246 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.200 across those dates. 247 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.360 A big thank you to Amy's Positive Pathways, who just 248 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:03.320 just got certified and in this sort of counseling that 249 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.919 she had trained for and got her masters in. 250 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:10.000 Thank you for being a member for I appreciate that. 251 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:10.480 Thank you. 252 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.759 I'm gonna let you guys take it away with where 253 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:18.600 you want to go with it, because I don't think 254 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:21.279 I need to steer this conversation. So jump in, be 255 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:24.679 if you've got something, or if Chrisia, if you've got something, 256 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:26.320 you can throw that out there. Otherwise we can just 257 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.360 let these ladies do their damn thing because they've got lots. 258 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.840 Hi Joe, I'll let you then lead away and I'll 259 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:36.240 chime it. 260 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.159 All right, go for it, take it away, Susan. 261 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:41.360 Trishy, you're gonna have to chime in, chime in sooner 262 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:46.200 rather than later. So so how we how we sort 263 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:51.360 of came to be as as involved in this case 264 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:57.519 as as we still are. Obviously it's just the hearing 265 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:04.240 about Sandra's death and being members of the community where 266 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:09.879 we're we're all humans, mothers, aunts, daughters, people who care 267 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:14.279 about our neighbors and children in the community. We were 268 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.600 just really shocked and stunned that even when we didn't 269 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:23.200 know that she didn't take her own life, it was 270 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.120 already a tragic enough story when the original story broke. 271 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:31.159 So here we are in the middle of this state 272 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:35.200 of affairs in Massachusetts with other high profile cases afoot 273 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:40.279 and in this case drops and it doesn't even really 274 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.559 make a lot of traction and noise, and col Atrician 275 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.639 and I came to know each other. Was just the 276 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:51.159 shock and trying to represent a voice for Sander Birchmore 277 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.080 and kind of being amongst this crowd of justice seeking 278 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.039 warriors and just looking at each other saying what we 279 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.759 need to do more for for Sander Birchmore, I mean 280 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:07.000 not she ultimately doesn't have any voice, and it was heartbreaking. 281 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.400 And along the way, we've discovered that there's a huge 282 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:14.759 need to figure out one how this could ever in 283 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:19.400 a million years happen to anyone, and two how can 284 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.279 we prevent it? So there's been a lot of research 285 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.200 and work going on to with with task force and 286 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:32.799 panels who are educated on these matters, even law enforcement 287 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:40.000 professionals who are tasked with apprehending these monsters, all towards 288 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:43.200 the goal of not only finding justice for Sander Birchmore, 289 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.880 but how do we prevent this from continuing? How do 290 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:50.359 we help other potential I don't even want to say 291 00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:54.319 potential victims in the community, because there's just no doubt 292 00:17:54.359 --> 00:18:00.720 whatsoever that others were impacted by this ongoing treasure behavior. 293 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:03.359 So it becomes a matter of creating a safe space 294 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:07.799 and maybe a way for anybody to reach out. And 295 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:11.160 mind you, not all of us have a master's degree 296 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:16.240 or or have the means to do an investigation or 297 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.359 create safety, but damn it, we will point you to 298 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:22.319 where you need to go. There's there's a lot of safe, 299 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:27.720 caring people in this in this justice community, and there's 300 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.079 no doubt in my mind that if somebody were to 301 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:35.279 feel comfortable having a conversation to just start with you know, hey, 302 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:38.640 I'm upset thinking about what happened to Sander birch More. 303 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.440 I you know, I knew her growing up. I'm sad 304 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.400 about I need to talk to someone. If we don't 305 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.359 know who the person is to talk to, we're going 306 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.759 to find it out, you know, we'll figure it out together, 307 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.119 but the community needs to heal other. First of all, 308 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:57.839 there should never be the existence of another Sander birch 309 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.079 More case. But that it happened at all means that 310 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.079 that a lot needs to happen to prevent and create 311 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.599 awareness and and to heal moving forward, and it is 312 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:14.480 possible to educate the communities and create, you know, a 313 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:16.839 multidisciplinary way to help everybody. 314 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.599 When I first heard of Sandro's story and started diving 315 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.880 into a bit and learning that it started at Stote 316 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.680 O'Donnell Middle schools, that screamed to me. 317 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.160 My son was currently at the school at that time. 318 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.640 When when I found out that piece of the story, 319 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.880 and so pulling up to that school every day, I 320 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:47.160 saw three you know three, there was three cop cars there. 321 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.480 There was officers in the school. My son would tell me, 322 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.599 and I would think how great it was that he 323 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:56.720 was safe. The police department were involved in the middle school, 324 00:19:56.839 --> 00:20:00.960 in the high school. And to find out Andrew's abuse 325 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.720 started in Stoton o'donald Middle. 326 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:04.640 School floored me. 327 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.480 It floored me as a parent, it floored me as 328 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:14.559 a member, a community member in Stoughton, and it brought 329 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:17.480 a lot of shame to me that I didn't know, 330 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:23.920 and I asked myself how many others didn't know? And 331 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:27.119 I thought I should know about that as a parent, 332 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.319 and that just you know, there was a moment there 333 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:33.680 where I just asked myself. 334 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:34.559 What was I going to do about that? 335 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.119 And that's when I found out about the first standout 336 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:42.359 that I attended in November of twenty three, and just 337 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.400 felt compelled to show up and try to give Sandra 338 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:47.960 a voice. 339 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.839 And you know, to this end, because Coco's bringing it 340 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:53.960 up here and both of you have alluded to it and. 341 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.400 I've discussed it before. What do you think about that 342 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.640 a parent of the explorer Cadre A companies kids on 343 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.359 all training events that there's no And it's it's crazy 344 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.240 to say this as we say it, because we're saying, Okay, 345 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:14.440 the kids are not safe with police, like, which is like, 346 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:17.200 wait a minute, they're they're the ones that protect them 347 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.599 against predators, right. 348 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:21.480 But but the FBI agent that came on, he was 349 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:23.640 on with Mike, He was on with that guy Todd, 350 00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.920 the former MSP guy. 351 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.200 Can't think of his last name right now, Todd. It 352 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.640 was around the time of the Enrique that Enrique isn't 353 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.640 alive and McGee, Yeah, Todd McGee. There was an FBI 354 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.880 agent that appeared a couple of times with Todd McGee 355 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.720 and he said, my kid don't go anywhere alone when 356 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:43.400 when we're. 357 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.400 Doing scouting, the boy scouts. None of these guys are 358 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.680 alone with my kid, you know, So that that's that's 359 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:51.559 how it goes. So what do you guys. 360 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.039 Think about parents of a Cadre member required on all 361 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.960 events so that guys and gals are not alone with 362 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:01.200 these guys. Guys, what do you think about that? 363 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.039 Well, I'll jump off for part of that, and if 364 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.039 Tricia has any input, obviously go for that as well. 365 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.839 But they never were supposed to be alone and one 366 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.880 on one the biggest issue. And I'm not saying, hey, let's, 367 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.519 you know, not rule out the Explorers program because clearly 368 00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:24.079 it is I don't know if defunct is the right word, 369 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:27.680 but certainly as it as it exists now, or with 370 00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.519 the problems that have been prevalent for so many years, 371 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.799 it can't continue the way that it is or has been. 372 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:40.559 But the agreement and policy and procedure that was supposed 373 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.960 to be upheld throughout this entire period and through many 374 00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:49.559 other treacherous stories regarding the Explorers is that no one 375 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.160 is supposed to be one on one right alongs are 376 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:57.960 not supposed to happen without another law enforcement professional or 377 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:02.279 another you know, they just weren't supposed to be solo rides. 378 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.279 Well, one thing, I don't mean to cut you off. 379 00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:09.519 If it were far well and Robert Divine, is that acceptable. 380 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:14.640 Well, obviously not well of your origin story where there 381 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:19.440 was already there was clearly already something bad afoot back 382 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.599 when it was you know, the boys riding along and 383 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:30.799 that you know there their interest in becoming law enforcement professionals, 384 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.160 stoked by their admiration for a dude like Robert Divine 385 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:38.319 that got them there. That was that was clearly an 386 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:42.799 origin story for for their mental defects. 387 00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.559 But if you had, if you had a parent riding along, 388 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:48.599 then that couldn't have happened. 389 00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.799 You had one member of one Explorer. 390 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.640 Parent on each night day whatever however this has going down, 391 00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:59.359 uh that so that they're not alone, then it can't happen, 392 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.480 right that it's not creezy, say, well. 393 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.000 It's not something to rule out obviously if there's a 394 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.680 if there's a parent, that that would and will do that. 395 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:11.640 But what we're dealing with here and which is really 396 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.480 prevalent with Explorers, and and I don't mean this to 397 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.799 any offense anyone here who's been through the program and 398 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:21.160 has been part of an intact family, but there are 399 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.279 a lot of children going through Explorers that are there 400 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:29.039 because they don't have an intact family, or they are 401 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:38.920